Messages in vintageHO group.

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 15733	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 1/1/2011
Subject: Walthers 85' Observation Car - Diagram Needed
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15734	From: John Hagen	Date: 1/1/2011
Subject: OSTUCO for Varney
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15735	From: Jim Waterman	Date: 1/1/2011
Subject: Re: Some Conover Progress
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15736	From: John H	Date: 1/1/2011
Subject: Re: OSTUCO for Varney
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15737	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 1/1/2011
Subject: Re: OSTUCO for Varney [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15738	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 1/1/2011
Subject: Re: OSTUCO for Varney
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15739	From: Mike Sloane	Date: 1/1/2011
Subject: Re: OSTUCO for Varney [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15740	From: John H	Date: 1/1/2011
Subject: Re: OSTUCO for Varney [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15741	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 1/1/2011
Subject: Re: OSTUCO for Varney [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15742	From: nvrr49@yahoo.com	Date: 1/1/2011
Subject: Train comic book
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15743	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 1/1/2011
Subject: Re: Train comic book [2 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15744	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 1/1/2011
Subject: Eastern Car Works
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15745	From: nvrr49	Date: 1/1/2011
Subject: Re: Train comic book [2 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15746	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 1/1/2011
Subject: Re: Eastern Car Works
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15747	From: David J. Starr	Date: 1/1/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers 85' Observation Car - Diagram Needed
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15748	From: Rick Jones	Date: 1/1/2011
Subject: Re: Train comic book [2 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15749	From: Larry	Date: 1/1/2011
Subject: Re: Train comic book [2 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15750	From: Larry	Date: 1/1/2011
Subject: Re: Train comic book [2 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15751	From: Sam	Date: 1/1/2011
Subject: Re: Eastern Car Works
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15752	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 1/2/2011
Subject: Re: Train comic book
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15753	From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com	Date: 1/2/2011
Subject: New file uploaded to vintageHO
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15754	From: John Hagen	Date: 1/2/2011
Subject: OSTUCO for Walthers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15755	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/3/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers 85' Observation Car - Diagram Needed
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15756	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 1/3/2011
Subject: Re: OSTUCO for Walthers [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15757	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 1/3/2011
Subject: Re: OSTUCO for Walthers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15758	From: corlissbs@aol.com	Date: 1/3/2011
Subject: Re: OSTUCO for Walthers [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15759	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 1/3/2011
Subject: Re: OSTUCO for Walthers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15760	From: toytrain13	Date: 1/3/2011
Subject: American Beauty coupler swing hangers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15761	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 1/3/2011
Subject: Re: American Beauty coupler swing hangers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15762	From: Richard White	Date: 1/3/2011
Subject: Re: American Beauty coupler swing hangers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15763	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 1/3/2011
Subject: Re: American Beauty coupler swing hangers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15764	From: al45390	Date: 1/3/2011
Subject: Re: American Beauty cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15765	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 1/3/2011
Subject: Re: American Beauty cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15766	From: Richard White	Date: 1/3/2011
Subject: Re: American Beauty cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15767	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 1/3/2011
Subject: Re: American Beauty cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15768	From: 69_Mustang_Man	Date: 1/4/2011
Subject: 1940's Mantua Reading Locomotive Decal Color
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15769	From: David J. Starr	Date: 1/4/2011
Subject: Re: American Beauty cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15770	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 1/4/2011
Subject: Re: American Beauty cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15771	From: Richard White	Date: 1/4/2011
Subject: Re: American Beauty cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15772	From: jay matz	Date: 1/4/2011
Subject: Re: 1940's Mantua Reading Locomotive Decal Color
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15773	From: erieberk	Date: 1/4/2011
Subject: Re: 1940's Mantua Reading Locomotive Decal Color
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15774	From: erieberk	Date: 1/4/2011
Subject: Re: 1940's Mantua Reading Locomotive Decal Color
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15775	From: mrkeitho	Date: 1/4/2011
Subject: Ambroid Painted sides, How do I match color?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15776	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 1/4/2011
Subject: Re: 1940's Mantua Reading Locomotive Decal Color
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15777	From: Dennis Thompson	Date: 1/4/2011
Subject: Re: 1940's Mantua Reading Locomotive Decal Color
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15778	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 1/5/2011
Subject: Re: Ambroid Painted sides, How do I match color?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15779	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 1/5/2011
Subject: Re: Ambroid Painted sides, How do I match color?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15780	From: Richard White	Date: 1/5/2011
Subject: Re: Ambroid Painted sides, How do I match color?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15781	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/5/2011
Subject: Re: Ambroid Painted sides, How do I match color?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15782	From: Glenn	Date: 1/5/2011
Subject: Re: Ambroid Painted sides, How do I match color?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15783	From: John Hagen	Date: 1/5/2011
Subject: OSTUCO decals
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15784	From: Keith O.	Date: 1/5/2011
Subject: Re: Ambroid Painted sides, How do I match color?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15785	From: Glenn	Date: 1/6/2011
Subject: Re: Ambroid Painted sides, How do I match color?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15786	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 1/6/2011
Subject: Re: Ambroid Painted sides, How do I match color?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15787	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 1/6/2011
Subject: Re: Ambroid Painted sides, How do I match color?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15788	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 1/6/2011
Subject: Re: Ambroid Painted sides, How do I match color?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15789	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 1/6/2011
Subject: Re: OSTUCO decals
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15790	From: nvrr49	Date: 1/6/2011
Subject: Re: Ambroid Painted sides, How do I match color?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15791	From: Denny Anspach	Date: 1/6/2011
Subject: Re: Ambroid Painted sides, How do I match color?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15792	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 1/6/2011
Subject: Re: Ambroid Painted sides, How do I match color?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15793	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 1/6/2011
Subject: Re: Decals Exist for Ohio Seamless Tube car
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15794	From: CinderCrusher	Date: 1/6/2011
Subject: Re: Ambroid Painted sides, How do I match color?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15795	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 1/6/2011
Subject: Re: Ambroid Painted sides, How do I match color?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15796	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 1/6/2011
Subject: Re: Ambroid Painted sides, How do I match color?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15797	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 1/6/2011
Subject: Re: Ambroid Painted sides, How do I match color?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15798	From: 69_Mustang_Man	Date: 1/7/2011
Subject: Varney Yellowstone boiler casting
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15799	From: jim heckard	Date: 1/7/2011
Subject: Yellowstone Body
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15800	From: CinderCrusher	Date: 1/7/2011
Subject: Re: Ambroid Painted sides, How do I match color?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15801	From: John Hagen	Date: 1/8/2011
Subject: OSTUCO Final set
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15802	From: erieberk	Date: 1/8/2011
Subject: Re: Yellowstone Body
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15803	From: Mary Long	Date: 1/8/2011
Subject: Re: OSTUCO Final set [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15804	From: CinderCrusher	Date: 1/8/2011
Subject: Re: Ambroid Painted sides, How do I match color?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15805	From: jim heckard	Date: 1/8/2011
Subject: Re: Yellowstone Body
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15806	From: John H	Date: 1/8/2011
Subject: Re: OSTUCO Final set [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15807	From: John H	Date: 1/8/2011
Subject: Re: OSTUCO Final set [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15808	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 1/8/2011
Subject: Re: Yellowstone Body
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15809	From: Duane Porter	Date: 1/8/2011
Subject: Re: Grant Hobbycraft
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15810	From: erieberk	Date: 1/8/2011
Subject: Re: Yellowstone Body
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15811	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/8/2011
Subject: Re: OSTUCO Final set [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15812	From: jim heckard	Date: 1/8/2011
Subject: Re: Grant Hobbycraft
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15813	From: Duane Porter	Date: 1/8/2011
Subject: Re: Grant Hobbycraft
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15814	From: jim heckard	Date: 1/8/2011
Subject: Re: Grant Hobbycraft
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15815	From: Duane Porter	Date: 1/8/2011
Subject: Re: Grant Hobbycraft
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15816	From: jim heckard	Date: 1/8/2011
Subject: Re: Grant Hobbycraft
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15817	From: Duane Porter	Date: 1/8/2011
Subject: Re: Grant Hobbycraft
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15818	From: jim heckard	Date: 1/9/2011
Subject: Re: Grant Hobbycraft
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15819	From: Duane Porter	Date: 1/9/2011
Subject: Re: Grant Hobbycraft
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15820	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 1/9/2011
Subject: Re: OSTUCO decals
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15821	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 1/10/2011
Subject: More on matching paint
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15822	From: CinderCrusher	Date: 1/10/2011
Subject: Re: More on matching paint
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15823	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 1/10/2011
Subject: Re: More on matching paint
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15824	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 1/11/2011
Subject: Re: OSTUCO decals
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15825	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 1/11/2011
Subject: Re: OSTUCO decals
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15826	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 1/11/2011
Subject: Re: OSTUCO decals
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15827	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 1/11/2011
Subject: Re: OSTUCO decals
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15828	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 1/11/2011
Subject: Re: OSTUCO decals
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15829	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/11/2011
Subject: Re: OSTUCO decals
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15830	From: Don Grant	Date: 1/11/2011
Subject: Fwd: Video proof that Unintended Acceleration is the cars fault, not
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15831	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 1/11/2011
Subject: Must be uber-rare
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15832	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/11/2011
Subject: Re: Must be uber-rare
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15833	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 1/12/2011
Subject: Re: Must be uber-rare
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15834	From: My-Yahoo-Groups	Date: 1/12/2011
Subject: Re: Must be uber-rare
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15835	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 1/12/2011
Subject: Re: Must be uber-rare
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15836	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 1/12/2011
Subject: Re: Must be uber-rare
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15837	From: madchemep2@aol.com	Date: 1/12/2011
Subject: Re: Fwd: Video proof that Unintended Acceleration is the cars fault,
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15838	From: Don Grant	Date: 1/12/2011
Subject: Re: Fwd: Video proof that Unintended Acceleration is the cars fault,
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15839	From: Randolph Torres	Date: 1/13/2011
Subject: FOR SALE HO
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15840	From: Larry	Date: 1/13/2011
Subject: Re: Must be uber-rare
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15841	From: SaltNPepper WhoKnows	Date: 1/13/2011
Subject: Re: Must be uber-rare - Details about item: sent a message about MDC
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15842	From: toytrain13	Date: 1/14/2011
Subject: American Beauty paint scheme
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15843	From: 69_Mustang_Man	Date: 1/14/2011
Subject: PING to RUSS SHEIL!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15844	From: Richard Kurz	Date: 1/14/2011
Subject: Re: American Beauty paint scheme
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15845	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/14/2011
Subject: Re: American Beauty paint scheme
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15846	From: Richard White	Date: 1/14/2011
Subject: Photo of American Beauty sides
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15847	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 1/14/2011
Subject: Re: Photo of American Beauty sides
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15848	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/14/2011
Subject: Re: Photo of American Beauty sides [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15849	From: Richard White	Date: 1/14/2011
Subject: Re: Photo of American Beauty sides
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15850	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 1/15/2011
Subject: A recent "AS IS" HO aquisition.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15851	From: RalphB	Date: 1/15/2011
Subject: I knew it wasn't Varney
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15852	From: jim heckard	Date: 1/15/2011
Subject: eBay Rivarossi Hiawatha
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15853	From: ckinzer@att.net	Date: 1/15/2011
Subject: Re: A recent "AS IS" HO aquisition.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15854	From: erieberk	Date: 1/15/2011
Subject: Re: American Beauty paint scheme
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15855	From: Richard White	Date: 1/15/2011
Subject: Re: American Beauty paint scheme
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15856	From: jerrygart5	Date: 1/15/2011
Subject: Re: A recent "AS IS" HO aquisition.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15857	From: jim heckard	Date: 1/15/2011
Subject: American Beauty Shorty Bottom Detail
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15858	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 1/15/2011
Subject: Re: A recent "AS IS" HO aquisition.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15859	From: Richard White	Date: 1/15/2011
Subject: Re: American Beauty Shorty Bottom Detail [3 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15860	From: dennyanspach	Date: 1/16/2011
Subject: Re: eBay Rivarossi Hiawatha
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15861	From: jim heckard	Date: 1/16/2011
Subject: Re: eBay Rivarossi Hiawatha
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15862	From: CinderCrusher	Date: 1/16/2011
Subject: Help Identifying Locomotive
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15863	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 1/16/2011
Subject: AC Gilbert Drive Wheels
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15864	From: John Hagen	Date: 1/16/2011
Subject: OSTUCO Decals
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15865	From: Daryl Olszeski	Date: 1/16/2011
Subject: Re: AC Gilbert Drive Wheels
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15866	From: Glenn	Date: 1/16/2011
Subject: Re: AC Gilbert Drive Wheels
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15867	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 1/16/2011
Subject: Re: OSTUCO Decals
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15868	From: Dale Smith	Date: 1/16/2011
Subject: Re: AC Gilbert Drive Wheels
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15869	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 1/16/2011
Subject: Re: AC Gilbert Drive Wheels
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15870	From: Donald R. Staton	Date: 1/17/2011
Subject: Re: AC Gilbert Drive Wheels
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15871	From: Nelson	Date: 1/17/2011
Subject: Re: eBay Rivarossi Hiawatha
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15872	From: Richard	Date: 1/19/2011
Subject: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15873	From: Matthew	Date: 1/20/2011
Subject: Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15874	From: Nelson	Date: 1/21/2011
Subject: Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15875	From: Richard	Date: 1/22/2011
Subject: Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15876	From: jim heckard	Date: 1/22/2011
Subject: Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15877	From: Nelson	Date: 1/22/2011
Subject: Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15878	From: Matthew	Date: 1/22/2011
Subject: Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15879	From: CinderCrusher	Date: 1/22/2011
Subject: Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15880	From: asleepy60	Date: 1/22/2011
Subject: A Question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15881	From: jim heckard	Date: 1/22/2011
Subject: Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15882	From: jim heckard	Date: 1/22/2011
Subject: Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15883	From: jim heckard	Date: 1/22/2011
Subject: Re: A Question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15884	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/22/2011
Subject: Re: A Question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15885	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 1/22/2011
Subject: Re: A Question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15886	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 1/22/2011
Subject: Re: A Question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15887	From: Gerold Eckl	Date: 1/22/2011
Subject: New One - was: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15888	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 1/22/2011
Subject: Lionel
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15889	From: jim heckard	Date: 1/22/2011
Subject: Re: New One - was: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies C
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15890	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 1/22/2011
Subject: Are Chatanooga Choo-Choos related to rabbits?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15891	From: CinderCrusher	Date: 1/22/2011
Subject: Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15892	From: CinderCrusher	Date: 1/22/2011
Subject: Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15893	From: jim heckard	Date: 1/22/2011
Subject: GHC emblem
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15894	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/22/2011
Subject: Re: Lionel
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15895	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 1/22/2011
Subject: Re: Lionel
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15896	From: Richard	Date: 1/22/2011
Subject: Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15897	From: CinderCrusher	Date: 1/23/2011
Subject: Re: GHC emblem
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15898	From: jim heckard	Date: 1/23/2011
Subject: Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15899	From: Richard	Date: 1/23/2011
Subject: Inside Scoop on IHC?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15900	From: Richard	Date: 1/23/2011
Subject: Re: Chatanooga Choo-Choo
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15901	From: jim heckard	Date: 1/23/2011
Subject: Re: Inside Scoop on IHC?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15902	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 1/23/2011
Subject: Re: Inside Scoop on IHC?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15903	From: estabrook@aol.com	Date: 1/23/2011
Subject: Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15904	From: Riverboy	Date: 1/23/2011
Subject: Re: Inside Scoop on IHC?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15905	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 1/23/2011
Subject: Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15906	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 1/23/2011
Subject: Re: Inside Scoop on IHC?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15907	From: asleepy60	Date: 1/23/2011
Subject: Re: A Question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15908	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/23/2011
Subject: Re: A Question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15909	From: Nelson	Date: 1/23/2011
Subject: Re: New One - was: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies C
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15910	From: Nelson	Date: 1/23/2011
Subject: Re: Chatanooga Choo-Choo
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15911	From: VtHam	Date: 1/24/2011
Subject: Re: Chatanooga Choo-Choo
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15912	From: fydill@aol.com	Date: 1/24/2011
Subject: Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15913	From: jim heckard	Date: 1/24/2011
Subject: Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15914	From: Nelson	Date: 1/24/2011
Subject: Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15915	From: Nelson	Date: 1/24/2011
Subject: Re: Chatanooga Choo-Choo
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15916	From: Nelson	Date: 1/24/2011
Subject: Re: Inside Scoop on IHC?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15917	From: Richard	Date: 1/24/2011
Subject: Re: Chatanooga Choo-Choo
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15918	From: David	Date: 1/24/2011
Subject: Mantua Loop Couplers - How well do they work?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15919	From: Gerold Eckl	Date: 1/24/2011
Subject: Re: Inside Scoop on IHC?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15920	From: jim heckard	Date: 1/25/2011
Subject: Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15921	From: al45390	Date: 1/25/2011
Subject: Re: Mantua Loop Couplers - How well do they work?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15922	From: estabrook@aol.com	Date: 1/25/2011
Subject: Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15923	From: Nelson	Date: 1/25/2011
Subject: Re: Inside Scoop on IHC?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15924	From: Nelson	Date: 1/25/2011
Subject: Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15925	From: David	Date: 1/25/2011
Subject: Re: Mantua Loop Couplers - How well do they work?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15926	From: al45390	Date: 1/25/2011
Subject: Re: Mantua Loop Couplers - How well do they work?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15927	From: Fred Hultberg	Date: 1/25/2011
Subject: Re: Chattanooga Choo-Choo and Variants
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15928	From: Fred Hultberg	Date: 1/25/2011
Subject: Fw: Re: Chattanooga Choo-Choo and Variants - Rest of The Unfinished
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15929	From: David	Date: 1/25/2011
Subject: Re: Mantua Loop Couplers - How well do they work?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15930	From: David	Date: 1/25/2011
Subject: Re: Lionel
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15931	From: al45390	Date: 1/26/2011
Subject: Re: Mantua Loop Couplers - How well do they work?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15932	From: Matthew	Date: 1/26/2011
Subject: Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15933	From: jim heckard	Date: 1/26/2011
Subject: New addition to vintage collection
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15934	From: Russ Shiel	Date: 1/26/2011
Subject: Hobbies Inc
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15935	From: Russ Shiel	Date: 1/26/2011
Subject: addendum to Hobbies Inc
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15936	From: jim heckard	Date: 1/26/2011
Subject: Re: Hobbies Inc
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15937	From: al45390	Date: 1/26/2011
Subject: Vintage Passenger car kit on Ebay
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15938	From: jim heckard	Date: 1/26/2011
Subject: Hobbies Inc. ads
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15939	From: jay matz	Date: 1/26/2011
Subject: Re: New addition to vintage collection
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15940	From: jim heckard	Date: 1/26/2011
Subject: Re: New addition to vintage collection
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15941	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/26/2011
Subject: Re: Vintage Passenger car kit on Ebay
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15942	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/26/2011
Subject: Re: Hobbies Inc. ads
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15943	From: jim heckard	Date: 1/26/2011
Subject: Re: Hobbies Inc. ads
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15944	From: jbark76	Date: 1/26/2011
Subject: Re: Vintage Passenger car kit on Ebay
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15945	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 1/26/2011
Subject: Re: New addition to vintage collection
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15946	From: jay matz	Date: 1/26/2011
Subject: Re: New addition to vintage collection
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15947	From: fydill@aol.com	Date: 1/26/2011
Subject: Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15948	From: al45390	Date: 1/27/2011
Subject: Pre-War Gilbert Tru-Model freight train set on Ebay
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15949	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 1/27/2011
Subject: Gilbert pre-X2F 'automatic' couplers (Was "Mantua Loop Couplers - Ho
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15950	From: David	Date: 1/27/2011
Subject: Re: Gilbert pre-X2F 'automatic' couplers (Was "Mantua Loop Couplers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15951	From: David	Date: 1/27/2011
Subject: Mantua Coupler Experience?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15952	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 1/27/2011
Subject: Re: Mantua Coupler Experience?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15953	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 1/27/2011
Subject: Re: Mantua Coupler Experience?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15954	From: Jim Waterman	Date: 1/27/2011
Subject: Re: New addition to vintage collection
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15955	From: David	Date: 1/27/2011
Subject: Re: Mantua Coupler Experience?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15956	From: al45390	Date: 1/28/2011
Subject: Re: Gilbert pre-X2F 'automatic' couplers (Was "Mantua Loop Couplers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15957	From: Wally Weart	Date: 1/28/2011
Subject: Re: Mantua Coupler Experience?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15958	From: James Bartelt	Date: 1/28/2011
Subject: (no subject)
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15959	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/29/2011
Subject: JC Cardstock combine
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15960	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/29/2011
Subject: Re: (unknown)
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15961	From: jim heckard	Date: 1/29/2011
Subject: Re: (unknown)
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15962	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 1/29/2011
Subject: Re: (unknown)
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15963	From: George Frey	Date: 1/29/2011
Subject: Re: (unknown)
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15964	From: Gary Woodard	Date: 1/29/2011
Subject: Re: (unknown)
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15965	From: nvrr49	Date: 1/30/2011
Subject: Re: JC Cardstock combine
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15966	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 1/30/2011
Subject: Re: JC Cardstock combine
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15967	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/30/2011
Subject: Re: JC Cardstock combine
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15968	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/30/2011
Subject: Re: JC Cardstock combine
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15969	From: RalphB	Date: 1/31/2011
Subject: Springfield train show
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15970	From: erieberk	Date: 1/31/2011
Subject: Re: JC Cardstock combine
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15971	From: RalphB	Date: 1/31/2011
Subject: Varney Aerotrain
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15972	From: nvrr49	Date: 1/31/2011
Subject: Re: JC Cardstock combine
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15973	From: bitlerisvj@hotmail.com	Date: 1/31/2011
Subject: Ambroid 8 Hatch Reefer
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15974	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 1/31/2011
Subject: Re: Ambroid 8 Hatch Reefer
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15975	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 1/31/2011
Subject: Re: Ambroid 8 Hatch Reefer
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15976	From: tomml57	Date: 1/31/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Aerotrain
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15977	From: estabrook@aol.com	Date: 1/31/2011
Subject: Re: Ambroid 8 Hatch Reefer
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15978	From: RalphB	Date: 2/1/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Aerotrain
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15979	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 2/1/2011
Subject: Re: Ambroid 8 Hatch Reefer
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15980	From: dennyanspach	Date: 2/1/2011
Subject: Re: JC Cardstock combine
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15981	From: JAMES GITTS	Date: 2/1/2011
Subject: JC passenger cars found for sale at the springfield show still avail
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15982	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 2/1/2011
Subject: Avoid this listing! Pleaseee!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15983	From: Donald R. Staton	Date: 2/1/2011
Subject: Re: Avoid this listing! Pleaseee!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15984	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 2/1/2011
Subject: Re: Avoid this listing! Pleaseee!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15985	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 2/1/2011
Subject: Re: Avoid this listing! Pleaseee!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15986	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 2/1/2011
Subject: Re: Avoid this listing! Pleaseee!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15987	From: jodanjackkayla@yahoo.com	Date: 2/1/2011
Subject: Re: Avoid this listing! Pleaseee!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15988	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 2/1/2011
Subject: Re: Avoid this listing! Pleaseee!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15989	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 2/1/2011
Subject: Re: Avoid this listing! Pleaseee!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15990	From: jodanjackkayla@yahoo.com	Date: 2/1/2011
Subject: Re: Avoid this listing! Pleaseee!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15991	From: estabrook@aol.com	Date: 2/1/2011
Subject: Re: Ambroid 8 Hatch Reefer
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15992	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 2/1/2011
Subject: Re: Avoid this listing! Pleaseee!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15993	From: Donald R. Staton	Date: 2/1/2011
Subject: Re: Avoid this listing! Pleaseee!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15994	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 2/1/2011
Subject: Re: Avoid this listing! Pleaseee!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15995	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 2/1/2011
Subject: Re: Avoid this listing! Pleaseee!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15996	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/1/2011
Subject: Re: JC Cardstock combine
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15997	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 2/1/2011
Subject: Re: Avoid this listing! Pleaseee!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15998	From: ckinzer@att.net	Date: 2/1/2011
Subject: Re: Avoid this listing! Pleaseee!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 15999	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 2/1/2011
Subject: Re: JC Cardstock combine
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16000	From: Dale Hokanson	Date: 2/2/2011
Subject: Re: Avoid this listing! Pleaseee!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16001	From: The Danish Duke	Date: 2/2/2011
Subject: Re: Avoid this listing! Pleaseee!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16002	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 2/2/2011
Subject: Re: Avoid this listing! Pleaseee!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16003	From: tom leen	Date: 2/2/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Aerotrain
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16004	From: RalphB	Date: 2/3/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Aerotrain
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16005	From: tom leen	Date: 2/3/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Aerotrain
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16006	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 2/3/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Aerotrain
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16007	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 2/3/2011
Subject: Mantua Uncouplers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16008	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/3/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Aerotrain
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16009	From: Glenn	Date: 2/3/2011
Subject: Re: Mantua Uncouplers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16010	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 2/3/2011
Subject: Re: Mantua Uncouplers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16011	From: Jim Waterman	Date: 2/4/2011
Subject: Re: Avoid this listing! Pleaseee!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16012	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/5/2011
Subject: Re: JC Cardstock combine
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16013	From: jim heckard	Date: 2/5/2011
Subject: Looking to buy
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16014	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 2/5/2011
Subject: Train show stuff
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16015	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 2/5/2011
Subject: Re: Train show stuff
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16016	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 2/5/2011
Subject: Re: Train show stuff
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16017	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 2/5/2011
Subject: plastic truck question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16018	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 2/5/2011
Subject: Re: plastic truck question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16019	From: Jim Waterman	Date: 2/6/2011
Subject: Re: Looking to buy
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16020	From: jim heckard	Date: 2/6/2011
Subject: Re: Looking to buy
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16021	From: Richard White	Date: 2/8/2011
Subject: Re: Looking to buy [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16022	From: jim heckard	Date: 2/8/2011
Subject: Change of pace
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16023	From: jim heckard	Date: 2/8/2011
Subject: Re: Looking to buy
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16024	From: Donald R. Staton	Date: 2/8/2011
Subject: Re: Change of pace [3 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16025	From: Westfield Weavers	Date: 2/8/2011
Subject: train donations
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16026	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 2/8/2011
Subject: Silver Streak reefers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16027	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/8/2011
Subject: Re: Silver Streak reefers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16028	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 2/8/2011
Subject: Re: Silver Streak reefers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16029	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 2/8/2011
Subject: Re: Silver Streak reefers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16030	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 2/8/2011
Subject: Re: Silver Streak reefers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16031	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/8/2011
Subject: Re: Silver Streak reefers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16032	From: dennyanspach	Date: 2/9/2011
Subject: Sampson "Motorailer" streamlined power car.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16033	From: jim heckard	Date: 2/9/2011
Subject: Re: Sampson "Motorailer" streamlined power car.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16034	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 2/9/2011
Subject: Most "fun" so far
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16035	From: Tom Hare	Date: 2/9/2011
Subject: Fix your old trains with beer cans!!!!!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16036	From: Nelson	Date: 2/10/2011
Subject: Re: Fix your old trains with beer cans!!!!!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16037	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 2/11/2011
Subject: Re: Ambroid 8 Hatch Reefer
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16038	From: Richard White	Date: 2/11/2011
Subject: Re: Ambroid 8 Hatch Reefer
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16039	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 2/11/2011
Subject: Re: Ambroid 8 Hatch Reefer
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16040	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 2/11/2011
Subject: Plastic Varney question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16041	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 2/11/2011
Subject: It's a morgue around here.....
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16042	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 2/11/2011
Subject: Re: It's a morgue around here.....
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16043	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 2/11/2011
Subject: Re: It's a morgue around here.....
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16044	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/12/2011
Subject: JC cardside car
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16045	From: My-Yahoo-Groups	Date: 2/12/2011
Subject: Re: JC cardside car [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16046	From: corlissbs@aol.com	Date: 2/12/2011
Subject: A Very Old Vintage Club
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16047	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/12/2011
Subject: Re: JC cardside car
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16048	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/12/2011
Subject: Re: A Very Old Vintage Club
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16049	From: al45390	Date: 2/12/2011
Subject: Re: JC cardside car
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16050	From: corlissbs@aol.com	Date: 2/12/2011
Subject: Re: A Very Old Vintage Club
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16051	From: John H	Date: 2/12/2011
Subject: Re: A Very Old Vintage Club
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16052	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 2/12/2011
Subject: Re: Plastic Varney question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16053	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 2/12/2011
Subject: Re: Plastic Varney question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16054	From: Glenn	Date: 2/12/2011
Subject: Re: It's a morgue around here.....
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16055	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 2/13/2011
Subject: Mantua 1952 Pacific Kit
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16056	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 2/13/2011
Subject: Re: Mantua 1952 Pacific Kit
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16057	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 2/13/2011
Subject: Re: Mantua 1952 Pacific Kit
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16058	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 2/13/2011
Subject: Re: Plastic Varney question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16059	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 2/13/2011
Subject: Re: Plastic Varney question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16060	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 2/13/2011
Subject: Re: Mantua 1952 Pacific Kit
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16061	From: leetrains	Date: 2/14/2011
Subject: varney book
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16062	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 2/14/2011
Subject: Re: Ambroid 8 Hatch Reefer
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16063	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/14/2011
Subject: Re: varney book
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16064	From: Robert	Date: 2/14/2011
Subject: Athearn 4-6-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16065	From: Richard White	Date: 2/14/2011
Subject: Re: Ambroid 8 Hatch Reefer
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16066	From: toytrain13	Date: 2/14/2011
Subject: Silver Streak Pacific Electric Caboose
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16067	From: Donald R. Staton	Date: 2/14/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16068	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 2/14/2011
Subject: Re: Silver Streak Pacific Electric Caboose
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16069	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 2/14/2011
Subject: Re: Silver Streak Pacific Electric Caboose
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16070	From: Rick Jones	Date: 2/14/2011
Subject: Re: Silver Streak Pacific Electric Caboose
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16071	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 2/14/2011
Subject: Re: Silver Streak Pacific Electric Caboose
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16072	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 2/14/2011
Subject: Cast 2-bay hopper ident
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16073	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Re: Silver Streak Pacific Electric Caboose
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16074	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Re: Cast 2-bay hopper ident
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16075	From: Wally Weart	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Re: Silver Streak Pacific Electric Caboose
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16076	From: Richard White	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Re: Silver Streak Pacific Electric Caboose
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16077	From: Richard White	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Re: Silver Streak Pacific Electric Caboose
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16078	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Re: Silver Streak Pacific Electric Caboose
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16079	From: Richard White	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Re: Silver Streak Pacific Electric Caboose
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16080	From: Wally Weart	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Re: Silver Streak Pacific Electric Caboose
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16081	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Re: Cast 2-bay hopper ident
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16082	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Re: Cast 2-bay hopper ident
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16083	From: jim heckard	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Varney pre war passenger set
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16084	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Re: Cast 2-bay hopper ident
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16085	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Next question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16086	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Next question Cast Stock Car
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16087	From: tom bell	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Re: Silver Streak Pacific Electric Caboose
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16088	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Re: Next question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16089	From: William Frisk	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Re: Silver Streak Pacific Electric Caboose
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16090	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Re: Varney pre war passenger set
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16091	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Re: Cast 2-bay hopper ident
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16092	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Re: Cast 2-bay hopper ident
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16093	From: Richard White	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Re: Silver Streak Pacific Electric Caboose
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16094	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Re: Next question Cast Stock Car
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16095	From: Rick Jones	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Re: Silver Streak Pacific Electric Caboose
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16096	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Re: Silver Streak Pacific Electric Caboose
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16097	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Re: Silver Streak Pacific Electric Caboose
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16098	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Re: Silver Streak Pacific Electric Caboose
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16099	From: Karl Peters	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Instructructions for Silver Streak P.E. Caboose
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16100	From: Richard White	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Re: Instructructions for Silver Streak P.E. Caboose
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16101	From: toytrain13	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Silver Streak Pacific Electric caboose
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16102	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Re: Silver Streak Pacific Electric caboose
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16103	From: John Hagen	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: OSTUCO Decals
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16104	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Re: Silver Streak Pacific Electric caboose
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16105	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Re: OSTUCO Decals [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16106	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Re: Silver Streak Pacific Electric caboose
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16107	From: Richard White	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Re: Silver Streak Pacific Electric Caboose [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16108	From: Richard White	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Re: Silver Streak Pacific Electric caboose
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16109	From: Richard White	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Re: Silver Streak Pacific Electric caboose
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16110	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Re: Silver Streak Pacific Electric caboose
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16111	From: tom bell	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Re: Silver Streak Pacific Electric caboose
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16112	From: Jim Waterman	Date: 2/16/2011
Subject: Re: Cast 2-bay hopper ident
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16113	From: Raymond Lorts, Sr,	Date: 2/16/2011
Subject: Fwd: This Weekend! - Great Train Expo in Portland, OR
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16114	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 2/16/2011
Subject: MYSTERY 2-8-4 BRASS & DIECAST STEAM ENGINE I have listed.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16115	From: Bill Pittman	Date: 2/16/2011
Subject: Want to buy.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16116	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 2/16/2011
Subject: Re: Want to buy.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16117	From: jim heckard	Date: 2/16/2011
Subject: Re: Want to buy.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16118	From: Bill Pittman	Date: 2/16/2011
Subject: Re: Want to buy.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16119	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 2/16/2011
Subject: Re: Cast 2-bay hopper ident
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16120	From: Larry	Date: 2/16/2011
Subject: This Weekend! - Peoria Train Fair in East Peoria, IL
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16121	From: Richard	Date: 2/16/2011
Subject: MDC Shay Truck Mounting Pins
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16122	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 2/16/2011
Subject: I need a part.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16123	From: RalphB	Date: 2/17/2011
Subject: Re: Want to buy.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16124	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 2/17/2011
Subject: The very first Rivarossi production model ever produced just sold on
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16125	From: Bill Pittman	Date: 2/18/2011
Subject: Re: Want to buy.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16126	From: Nelson	Date: 2/18/2011
Subject: Re: The very first Rivarossi production model ever produced just sol
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16127	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 2/18/2011
Subject: Re: The very first Rivarossi production model ever produced just sol
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16128	From: Jim Waterman	Date: 2/18/2011
Subject: Re: The very first Rivarossi production model ever produced just sol
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16129	From: JimW	Date: 2/18/2011
Subject: Re: Want to buy.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16130	From: CinderCrusher	Date: 2/18/2011
Subject: Re: The very first Rivarossi production model ever produced just sol
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16131	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 2/18/2011
Subject: Re: The very first Rivarossi production model ever produced just sol
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16132	From: CinderCrusher	Date: 2/19/2011
Subject: Re: I need a part.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16133	From: jim heckard	Date: 2/19/2011
Subject: Varney Streamlined Electric
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16134	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/19/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Streamlined Electric [2 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16135	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 2/19/2011
Subject: WANTED GG1 SHELLS !! Re: [vintageHO] Varney Streamlined Electric
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16136	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 2/19/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Streamlined Electric [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16137	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 2/19/2011
Subject: Wow, I won !!!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16138	From: ckinzer@att.net	Date: 2/19/2011
Subject: Re: Wow, I won !!! [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16139	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/19/2011
Subject: Re: Wow, I won !!! [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16140	From: John Hagen	Date: 2/19/2011
Subject: Wow, Mikie Won
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16141	From: Dennis Thompson	Date: 2/19/2011
Subject: Re: Wow, Mikie Won [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16142	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 2/19/2011
Subject: Re: Wow, I won !!!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16143	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 2/19/2011
Subject: Re: Wow, I won !!!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16144	From: Chris B	Date: 2/19/2011
Subject: Re: Wow, I won !!! [2 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16145	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 2/19/2011
Subject: Re: Wow, I won !!!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16146	From: Jim Waterman	Date: 2/20/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Streamlined Electric
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16147	From: jim heckard	Date: 2/20/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Streamlined Electric
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16148	From: joegideon	Date: 2/22/2011
Subject: Re: Avoid this listing! Pleaseee!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16149	From: joegideon	Date: 2/22/2011
Subject: Re: The very first Rivarossi production model ever produced just sol
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16150	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 2/23/2011
Subject: Re: Avoid this listing! Pleaseee!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16151	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 2/23/2011
Subject: Re: The very first Rivarossi production model ever produced just sol
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16152	From: Nelson	Date: 2/23/2011
Subject: Re: The very first Rivarossi production model ever produced just sol
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16153	From: jim heckard	Date: 2/23/2011
Subject: Re: The very first Rivarossi production model ever produced just sol
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16154	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 2/23/2011
Subject: Re: Avoid this listing! Pleaseee!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16155	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 2/23/2011
Subject: Dual Uncoupling Ramps???
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16156	From: Donald R. Staton	Date: 2/24/2011
Subject: Re: Dual Uncoupling Ramps???
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16157	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 2/24/2011
Subject: Socket wrenches you should get.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16158	From: Wobbly913	Date: 2/24/2011
Subject: Re: Socket wrenches you should get.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16159	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 2/24/2011
Subject: Re: Socket wrenches you should get.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16160	From: Nelson	Date: 2/24/2011
Subject: Re: The very first Rivarossi production model ever produced just sol
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16161	From: John H	Date: 2/24/2011
Subject: Re: Socket wrenches you should get.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16162	From: John H	Date: 2/24/2011
Subject: OSTUCO Decals in the mail
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16163	From: tom leen	Date: 2/24/2011
Subject: Re: Dual Uncoupling Ramps???
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16164	From: hooligan	Date: 2/24/2011
Subject: Re: OSTUCO Decals in the mail
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16165	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 2/24/2011
Subject: Has anyone seen the Toonerville listing?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16166	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/24/2011
Subject: Re: Has anyone seen the Toonerville listing?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16167	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 2/24/2011
Subject: Re: Has anyone seen the Toonerville listing?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16168	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 2/24/2011
Subject: Re: Has anyone seen the Toonerville listing?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16169	From: erieberk	Date: 2/25/2011
Subject: Re: Has anyone seen the Toonerville listing?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16170	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 2/25/2011
Subject: Re: Has anyone seen the Toonerville listing?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16171	From: erieberk	Date: 2/25/2011
Subject: Re: Has anyone seen the Toonerville listing?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16172	From: Richard	Date: 2/25/2011
Subject: Message for Jim Heckard about a Gilbert 0-6-0
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16173	From: jim heckard	Date: 2/25/2011
Subject: Re: Message for Jim Heckard about a Gilbert 0-6-0
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16174	From: toytrain13	Date: 2/25/2011
Subject: American Beauty truck side frame
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16175	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 2/25/2011
Subject: Re: American Beauty truck side frame
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16176	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/25/2011
Subject: Re: OSTUCO Decals in the mail
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16177	From: Richard	Date: 2/26/2011
Subject: Re: Message for Jim Heckard about a Gilbert 0-6-0
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16178	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 2/26/2011
Subject: Re: OSTUCO Decals in the mail
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16179	From: jim heckard	Date: 2/26/2011
Subject: Re: Message for Jim Heckard about a Gilbert 0-6-0
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16180	From: toytrain13	Date: 2/26/2011
Subject: Richard White's Red Ball car photo album
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16181	From: jim heckard	Date: 2/27/2011
Subject: Red Ball cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16182	From: Richard	Date: 2/27/2011
Subject: Re: Message for Jim Heckard about a Gilbert 0-6-0
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16183	From: Joe	Date: 2/27/2011
Subject: Re: Has anyone seen the Toonerville listing?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16184	From: scrimjimmy	Date: 2/27/2011
Subject: 16th ANNUAL MODEL TRAIN SHOW & SWAP MEET CEDARBURG, WI
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16185	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 2/27/2011
Subject: Rebuilds
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16186	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/27/2011
Subject: Re: 16th ANNUAL MODEL TRAIN SHOW & SWAP MEET CEDARBURG, WI
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16187	From: James Bartelt	Date: 2/27/2011
Subject: Re: 16th ANNUAL MODEL TRAIN SHOW & SWAP MEET CEDARBURG, WI
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16188	From: ckinzer@att.net	Date: 2/27/2011
Subject: Re: Rebuilds [2 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16189	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/27/2011
Subject: Re: Rebuilds
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16190	From: Dale Smith	Date: 2/27/2011
Subject: Re: Message for Jim Heckard about a Gilbert 0-6-0
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16191	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 2/28/2011
Subject: Re: Rebuilds
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16192	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 2/28/2011
Subject: Re: Rebuilds
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16193	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 2/28/2011
Subject: Re: Rebuilds
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16194	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 2/28/2011
Subject: Re: Rebuilds
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16195	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 2/28/2011
Subject: Re: Rebuilds
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16196	From: Gary Woodard	Date: 2/28/2011
Subject: Re: Rebuilds
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16197	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 2/28/2011
Subject: Re: OSTUCO Decals in the mail
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16198	From: John H	Date: 2/28/2011
Subject: Re: OSTUCO Decals in the mail
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16199	From: jim heckard	Date: 3/1/2011
Subject: Item won on eBay
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16200	From: mrncartoon	Date: 3/2/2011
Subject: Great Website on Vintage Model Magazines
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16201	From: pfpackman	Date: 3/2/2011
Subject: Solvents for Testors Floquil
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16202	From: Richard White	Date: 3/2/2011
Subject: Re: Solvents for Testors Floquil
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16203	From: Glenn	Date: 3/2/2011
Subject: Re: Solvents for Testors Floquil
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16204	From: Donald R. Staton	Date: 3/2/2011
Subject: Re: Solvents for Testors Floquil
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16205	From: Glenn	Date: 3/2/2011
Subject: Re: Solvents for Testors Floquil
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16206	From: estabrook@aol.com	Date: 3/2/2011
Subject: Re: Solvents for Testors Floquil
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16207	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 3/2/2011
Subject: Re: Solvents for Testors Floquil
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16208	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 3/2/2011
Subject: Re: Solvents for Testors Floquil
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16209	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 3/2/2011
Subject: Re: Solvents for Testors Floquil
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16210	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 3/2/2011
Subject: Re: Solvents for Testors Floquil
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16211	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/2/2011
Subject: Re: Solvents for Testors Floquil
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16212	From: Gary Woodard	Date: 3/3/2011
Subject: Re: Solvents for Testors Floquil
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16213	From: Matthew	Date: 3/3/2011
Subject: Re: Solvents for Testors Floquil
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16214	From: corlissbs@aol.com	Date: 3/3/2011
Subject: Re: Solvents for Testors Floquil
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16215	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 3/3/2011
Subject: Re: Solvents for Testors Floquil
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16216	From: jim heckard	Date: 3/3/2011
Subject: item won on eBay
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16217	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 3/3/2011
Subject: New Oldies
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16218	From: Gerold Eckl	Date: 3/3/2011
Subject: Re: New Oldies [3 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16219	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 3/3/2011
Subject: Re: New Oldies
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16220	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/3/2011
Subject: Re: Solvents for Testors Floquil
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16221	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 3/3/2011
Subject: Re: Solvents for Testors Floquil
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16222	From: railroads@slingshot.co.nz	Date: 3/4/2011
Subject: Bowser and Suncoast Models
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16223	From: PaulP	Date: 3/5/2011
Subject: Solvents for Floquil Paints
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16224	From: Askerberg	Date: 3/5/2011
Subject: Good day at the show
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16225	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 3/5/2011
Subject: Re: Good day at the show
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16226	From: jim heckard	Date: 3/6/2011
Subject: To much stuff ????
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16227	From: ckinzer@att.net	Date: 3/6/2011
Subject: Re: To much stuff ???? [11 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16228	From: herb1013@epix.net	Date: 3/6/2011
Subject: Re: To much stuff ????
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16229	From: Richard White	Date: 3/6/2011
Subject: Re: To much stuff ???? [11 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16230	From: jim heckard	Date: 3/6/2011
Subject: Re: To much stuff ????
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16231	From: Chris B	Date: 3/6/2011
Subject: Re: To much stuff ???? [11 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16232	From: Chris B	Date: 3/6/2011
Subject: Re: To much stuff ????
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16233	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 3/6/2011
Subject: Re: To much stuff ????
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16234	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 3/6/2011
Subject: Re: To much stuff ????
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16235	From: jim heckard	Date: 3/6/2011
Subject: Re: To much stuff ????
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16236	From: Chris B	Date: 3/6/2011
Subject: Re: To much stuff ????
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16237	From: ckinzer@att.net	Date: 3/6/2011
Subject: Re: To much stuff ????
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16238	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 3/6/2011
Subject: Re: To much stuff ????
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16239	From: ckinzer@att.net	Date: 3/6/2011
Subject: Re: To much stuff ????
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16240	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 3/6/2011
Subject: Re: To much stuff ????
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16241	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 3/6/2011
Subject: Re: To much stuff ????
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16242	From: jim heckard	Date: 3/6/2011
Subject: Re: To much stuff ????
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16243	From: Chris B	Date: 3/6/2011
Subject: Re: To much stuff ????
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16244	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 3/6/2011
Subject: Re: To much stuff ????
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16245	From: Chris B	Date: 3/6/2011
Subject: Re: To much stuff ????
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16246	From: Glenn	Date: 3/6/2011
Subject: Re: To much stuff ????
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16247	From: CinderCrusher	Date: 3/6/2011
Subject: Re: To much stuff ????
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16248	From: jim heckard	Date: 3/6/2011
Subject: Re: To much stuff ????
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16249	From: CinderCrusher	Date: 3/6/2011
Subject: Re: To much stuff ????
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16250	From: jim heckard	Date: 3/6/2011
Subject: Re: To much stuff ????
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16251	From: bongiovanni12001	Date: 3/6/2011
Subject: Unpleasant discussion/was Too Much Stuff??
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16252	From: Chris B	Date: 3/6/2011
Subject: Re: Unpleasant discussion/was Too Much Stuff??
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16253	From: Askerberg	Date: 3/6/2011
Subject: Re: Digest Number 2225
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16254	From: Model RailRoad	Date: 3/7/2011
Subject: Re: Unpleasant discussion/was Too Much Stuff??
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16255	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 3/7/2011
Subject: Re: Unpleasant discussion/was Too Much Stuff??
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16256	From: jim heckard	Date: 3/7/2011
Subject: Re: Unpleasant discussion/was Too Much Stuff??
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16257	From: Chris B	Date: 3/7/2011
Subject: Re: Unpleasant discussion/was Too Much Stuff??
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16258	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 3/7/2011
Subject: Re: Unpleasant discussion/was Too Much Stuff??
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16259	From: Glenn	Date: 3/7/2011
Subject: Re: Unpleasant discussion/was Too Much Stuff??
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16260	From: Glenn	Date: 3/7/2011
Subject: Re: Unpleasant discussion/was Too Much Stuff??
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16261	From: jim heckard	Date: 3/7/2011
Subject: Re: Unpleasant discussion/was Too Much Stuff??
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16262	From: Glenn	Date: 3/7/2011
Subject: Re: Unpleasant discussion/was Too Much Stuff??
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16263	From: Chris B	Date: 3/7/2011
Subject: Re: Unpleasant discussion/was Too Much Stuff??
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16264	From: jim heckard	Date: 3/7/2011
Subject: Item you might decide to part with
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16265	From: Chris B	Date: 3/7/2011
Subject: Re: Item you might decide to part with
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16266	From: Glenn	Date: 3/7/2011
Subject: Re: Item you might decide to part with
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16267	From: bongiovanni12001	Date: 3/7/2011
Subject: Re: Unpleasant discussion
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16268	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 3/7/2011
Subject: Walthers OO Cars?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16269	From: jim heckard	Date: 3/7/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers OO Cars?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16270	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 3/7/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers OO Cars?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16271	From: Chris B	Date: 3/8/2011
Subject: Re: Unpleasant discussion
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16272	From: Matthew	Date: 3/8/2011
Subject: Should we start a new group for Model RR Estate discussions
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16273	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 3/8/2011
Subject: Re: Should we start a new group for Model RR Estate discussions
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16274	From: Charles	Date: 3/8/2011
Subject: Re: Should we start a new group for Model RR Estate discussions
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16275	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/8/2011
Subject: Re: Should we start a new group for Model RR Estate discussions
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16276	From: Dale Smith	Date: 3/8/2011
Subject: Re: Should we start a new group for Model RR Estate discussions
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16277	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/8/2011
Subject: Re: Should we start a new group for Model RR Estate discussions
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16278	From: bluenosedviking	Date: 3/9/2011
Subject: Re: Should we start a new group for Model RR Estate discussions
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16279	From: Matthew	Date: 3/9/2011
Subject: Re: Should we start a new group for Model RR Estate discussions
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16280	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 3/9/2011
Subject: Re: Should we start a new group for Model RR Estate discussions
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16281	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 3/9/2011
Subject: Re: Should we start a new group for Model RR Estate discussions
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16282	From: Glenn	Date: 3/9/2011
Subject: Re: Should we start a new group for Model RR Estate discussions
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16283	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 3/9/2011
Subject: Ident
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16284	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/9/2011
Subject: Re: Ident
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16285	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/9/2011
Subject: Fw: [vintageHO] Ident
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16286	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 3/10/2011
Subject: Re: Ident
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16287	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 3/10/2011
Subject: Parts
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16288	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 3/11/2011
Subject: Re: Ident
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16289	From: Richard White	Date: 3/11/2011
Subject: Re: Ident
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16290	From: scrimjimmy	Date: 3/11/2011
Subject: 16th ANNUAL MODEL TRAIN SHOW & SWAP MEET MARCH 13th CEDARBURG, WI
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16291	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/11/2011
Subject: Re: Ident
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16292	From: Ed	Date: 3/12/2011
Subject: Valuing your train stuff.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16293	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 3/13/2011
Subject: Re: Valuing your train stuff.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16294	From: Chris B	Date: 3/13/2011
Subject: Re: Valuing your train stuff.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16295	From: Rick Jones	Date: 3/13/2011
Subject: Re: Valuing your train stuff.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16296	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 3/13/2011
Subject: Fwd: [NYC-Modeler] Fw: 2011 GLMRS location photos [6 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16297	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 3/14/2011
Subject: Re: Valuing your train stuff.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16298	From: jbark76	Date: 3/14/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers OO Cars?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16299	From: Chris B	Date: 3/14/2011
Subject: Re: Valuing your train stuff.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16300	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 3/14/2011
Subject: Re: Valuing your train stuff.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16301	From: Chris B	Date: 3/14/2011
Subject: Re: Valuing your train stuff.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16302	From: Glenn	Date: 3/14/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers OO Cars?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16303	From: jim heckard	Date: 3/15/2011
Subject: A winning bid
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16304	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 3/15/2011
Subject: tag sale finds
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16305	From: Peter Nyce	Date: 3/15/2011
Subject: Re: Ident
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16306	From: CinderCrusher	Date: 3/15/2011
Subject: Re: tag sale finds
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16307	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 3/15/2011
Subject: Re: Ident
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16308	From: Glenn	Date: 3/15/2011
Subject: Re: Ident
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16309	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 3/16/2011
Subject: Re: [yardbirdtrains] Re: Fwd: [NYC-Modeler] Fw: 2011 GLMRS location
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16310	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 3/16/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers OO Cars?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16311	From: Carl Neste	Date: 3/17/2011
Subject: Re: Ident
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16312	From: Glenn	Date: 3/17/2011
Subject: Re: Ident
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16313	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 3/17/2011
Subject: Re: Ident
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16314	From: Carl Neste	Date: 3/17/2011
Subject: Re: Ident
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16315	From: Glenn	Date: 3/18/2011
Subject: MDC parts
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16316	From: jim heckard	Date: 3/18/2011
Subject: Odd project engine / drive
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16317	From: James Bartelt	Date: 3/19/2011
Subject: Unusual Revell Covered Hopper.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16318	From: Mike	Date: 3/19/2011
Subject: New member needs help:
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16319	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 3/19/2011
Subject: Re: New member needs help:
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16320	From: Mike	Date: 3/19/2011
Subject: Re: New member needs help:
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16321	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/19/2011
Subject: Re: New member needs help:
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16322	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/19/2011
Subject: Re: New member needs help:
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16323	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 3/19/2011
Subject: Re: New member needs help:
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16324	From: Mike	Date: 3/19/2011
Subject: Re: New member needs help:
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16325	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 3/19/2011
Subject: Re: New member needs help:
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16326	From: jim heckard	Date: 3/19/2011
Subject: odd engine
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16327	From: Glenn	Date: 3/19/2011
Subject: Re: odd engine [6 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16328	From: Mike	Date: 3/19/2011
Subject: Re: odd engine
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16329	From: Carl Neste	Date: 3/20/2011
Subject: Good old woodies
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16330	From: jbark76	Date: 3/20/2011
Subject: Re: Good old woodies
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16331	From: Chris B	Date: 3/20/2011
Subject: Re: Good old woodies
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16332	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 3/20/2011
Subject: 2011 GLMRS Update and Campus Map
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16333	From: dennyanspach	Date: 3/21/2011
Subject: Re: Good old woodies
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16334	From: jim heckard	Date: 3/21/2011
Subject: seeking information
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16335	From: toytrain13	Date: 3/21/2011
Subject: American Beauty truck part
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16336	From: Robert	Date: 3/21/2011
Subject: Athearn 4-6-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16337	From: jim heckard	Date: 3/22/2011
Subject: Original Winton Tender Trucks
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16338	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 3/22/2011
Subject: Re: Original Winton Tender Trucks [3 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16339	From: jim heckard	Date: 3/22/2011
Subject: Re: Original Winton Tender Trucks
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16340	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 3/22/2011
Subject: Re: Original Winton Tender Trucks
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16341	From: jim heckard	Date: 3/22/2011
Subject: Re: Original Winton Tender Trucks
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16342	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 3/22/2011
Subject: Re: Original Winton Tender Trucks
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16343	From: jim heckard	Date: 3/22/2011
Subject: Re: Original Winton Tender Trucks
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16344	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 3/22/2011
Subject: Re: Original Winton Tender Trucks
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16345	From: jim heckard	Date: 3/22/2011
Subject: Re: Original Winton Tender Trucks
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16346	From: jim heckard	Date: 3/22/2011
Subject: Re: Original Winton Tender Trucks
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16347	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 3/23/2011
Subject: Re: Original Winton Tender Trucks [3 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16348	From: jim heckard	Date: 3/23/2011
Subject: Re: Original Winton Tender Trucks
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16349	From: Nelson	Date: 3/23/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16350	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 3/23/2011
Subject: Re: Original Winton Tender Trucks
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16351	From: jim heckard	Date: 3/23/2011
Subject: Athearn 4-6-2 3rd or last version sold.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16352	From: corlissbs@aol.com	Date: 3/23/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16353	From: jim heckard	Date: 3/23/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16354	From: corlissbs@aol.com	Date: 3/23/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16355	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 3/23/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16356	From: bluenosedviking	Date: 3/24/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16357	From: corlissbs@aol.com	Date: 3/24/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16358	From: docdenny34	Date: 3/24/2011
Subject: Re: Original Winton Tender Trucks
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16359	From: jim heckard	Date: 3/24/2011
Subject: Re: Original Winton Tender Trucks
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16360	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 3/24/2011
Subject: Re: Original Winton Tender Trucks
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16361	From: Jack Kelley	Date: 3/24/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16362	From: bluenosedviking	Date: 3/24/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16363	From: Donald R. Staton	Date: 3/24/2011
Subject: Re: Original Winton Tender Trucks
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16364	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 3/24/2011
Subject: Re: Original Winton Tender Trucks
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16365	From: VtHam	Date: 3/25/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16366	From: bluenosedviking	Date: 3/25/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16367	From: dennyanspach	Date: 3/25/2011
Subject: Re: Original Winton Tender Trucks
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16368	From: Nelson	Date: 3/25/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16369	From: Nelson	Date: 3/25/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16370	From: jim heckard	Date: 3/25/2011
Subject: Decision made on Winton tender trucks
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16371	From: bluenosedviking	Date: 3/25/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16372	From: Nelson	Date: 3/25/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2 3rd or last version sold.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16373	From: Nelson	Date: 3/25/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16374	From: bluenosedviking	Date: 3/26/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16375	From: dennyanspach	Date: 3/26/2011
Subject: Re: Decision made on Winton tender trucks
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16376	From: jim heckard	Date: 3/26/2011
Subject: Winton Allegheny Versions ???
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16377	From: Howard R Garner	Date: 3/26/2011
Subject: Update for Ulrich Cars list
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16378	From: Richard	Date: 3/26/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16379	From: Donald R. Staton	Date: 3/26/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16380	From: jim heckard	Date: 3/26/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16381	From: VtHam	Date: 3/26/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16382	From: Richard	Date: 3/26/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16383	From: Richard	Date: 3/26/2011
Subject: Casting a Pilot?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16384	From: jake_iv@juno.com	Date: 3/26/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16385	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/26/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16386	From: jake_iv@juno.com	Date: 3/27/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16387	From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com	Date: 3/27/2011
Subject: New file uploaded to vintageHO
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16388	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 3/27/2011
Subject: Re: Update for Ulrich Cars list
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16389	From: jim heckard	Date: 3/27/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16390	From: jim heckard	Date: 3/27/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16391	From: jim heckard	Date: 3/27/2011
Subject: First version Athearn Pacific
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16392	From: Richard	Date: 3/27/2011
Subject: Athearn P-4 Modelers Notes Article
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16393	From: Dennis Thompson	Date: 3/27/2011
Subject: New, (old) find; not home yet. Modest excitement..
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16394	From: garyp552002	Date: 3/27/2011
Subject: HO signs
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16395	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 3/27/2011
Subject: Re: First version Athearn Pacific [2 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16396	From: 23weldon	Date: 3/27/2011
Subject: Re: Casting a Pilot?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16397	From: Bill Anderson	Date: 3/27/2011
Subject: Re: New, (old) find; not home yet. Modest excitement..
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16398	From: Glenn	Date: 3/27/2011
Subject: Re: First version Athearn Pacific [2 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16399	From: wjclaasen@aol.com	Date: 3/27/2011
Subject: Re: HO signs
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16400	From: gary pardue	Date: 3/27/2011
Subject: Re: HO signs
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16401	From: Nelson	Date: 3/28/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16402	From: Nelson	Date: 3/28/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16403	From: toytrain13	Date: 3/28/2011
Subject: Red Ball Quikits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16404	From: nvrr49@yahoo.com	Date: 3/28/2011
Subject: HO signs
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16405	From: Carl Neste	Date: 3/28/2011
Subject: Repair technique
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16406	From: jim heckard	Date: 3/28/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16407	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 3/28/2011
Subject: Re: Repair technique
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16408	From: toytrain13	Date: 3/28/2011
Subject: Re: Repair technique
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16409	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 3/28/2011
Subject: Re: Repair technique
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16410	From: jake_iv@juno.com	Date: 3/28/2011
Subject: Re: Red Ball Quikits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16411	From: Nelson	Date: 3/28/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16412	From: corlissbs@aol.com	Date: 3/28/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16413	From: Matthew	Date: 3/29/2011
Subject: Re: Repair technique
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16414	From: Howard R Garner	Date: 3/29/2011
Subject: Ulrich C&SW GS Gondola
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16415	From: Model RailRoad	Date: 3/29/2011
Subject: Re: Red Ball Quikits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16416	From: Rick Jones	Date: 3/29/2011
Subject: Re: Red Ball Quikits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16417	From: CinderCrusher	Date: 3/29/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16418	From: herb1013@epix.net	Date: 3/29/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16419	From: jake_iv@juno.com	Date: 3/29/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16420	From: Model RailRoad	Date: 3/30/2011
Subject: Re: Red Ball Quikits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16421	From: Rick Steele	Date: 3/31/2011
Subject: Re: Red Ball Quikits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16422	From: Donald R. Staton	Date: 3/31/2011
Subject: Re: Red Ball Quikits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16423	From: Rick Jones	Date: 3/31/2011
Subject: Re: Red Ball Quikits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16424	From: Rick Steele	Date: 4/1/2011
Subject: Re: Red Ball Quikits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16425	From: jim heckard	Date: 4/1/2011
Subject: Tender Trucks Atrached
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16426	From: Howard R Garner	Date: 4/2/2011
Subject: Re: Red Ball Quikits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16427	From: pennsyjuice	Date: 4/2/2011
Subject: Got 'em running
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16428	From: jake_iv@juno.com	Date: 4/3/2011
Subject: Re: Got 'em running
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16429	From: jim heckard	Date: 4/3/2011
Subject: Allegheny done. on to next project
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16430	From: jake_iv@juno.com	Date: 4/3/2011
Subject: Re: Allegheny done. on to next project [3 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16431	From: jim heckard	Date: 4/3/2011
Subject: Re: Allegheny done. on to next project
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16432	From: jake_iv@juno.com	Date: 4/3/2011
Subject: Re: Allegheny done. on to next project
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16433	From: jim heckard	Date: 4/3/2011
Subject: Re: Allegheny done. on to next project
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16434	From: Nelson	Date: 4/3/2011
Subject: Re: Got 'em running
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16435	From: dennyanspach	Date: 4/3/2011
Subject: Re: Red Ball Quikits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16436	From: Riverboy	Date: 4/3/2011
Subject: Possibly Off Topic
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16437	From: RalphB	Date: 4/3/2011
Subject: Re: Got 'em running
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16438	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 4/3/2011
Subject: Re: Allegheny done. on to next project [3 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16439	From: toytrain13	Date: 4/3/2011
Subject: Red Ball Rotary Snowplow
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16440	From: toytrain13	Date: 4/3/2011
Subject: Re: Red Ball Rotary Snowplow
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16441	From: Model RailRoad	Date: 4/4/2011
Subject: Tahoe Trucks was Red Ball Quikits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16442	From: jake_iv@juno.com	Date: 4/4/2011
Subject: Re: Red Ball Rotary Snowplow
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16443	From: Rick Jones	Date: 4/4/2011
Subject: Re: Tahoe Trucks was Red Ball Quikits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16444	From: jake_iv@juno.com	Date: 4/5/2011
Subject: Tyco Chattanooga Choo Choo
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16445	From: Richard	Date: 4/6/2011
Subject: Re: Tyco Chattanooga Choo Choo
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16446	From: Richard	Date: 4/6/2011
Subject: Re: Tyco Chattanooga Choo Choo
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16447	From: Mary Long	Date: 4/6/2011
Subject: Re: Possibly Off Topic
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16448	From: jim heckard	Date: 4/6/2011
Subject: Next Project
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16449	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 4/6/2011
Subject: Re: Tyco Chattanooga Choo Choo
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16450	From: Nelson	Date: 4/6/2011
Subject: Re: Tyco Chattanooga Choo Choo
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16451	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 4/6/2011
Subject: Re: Tyco Chattanooga Choo Choo
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16452	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 4/6/2011
Subject: Re: Tyco Chattanooga Choo Choo
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16453	From: Matthew	Date: 4/7/2011
Subject: Re: Next Project
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16454	From: jake_iv@juno.com	Date: 4/7/2011
Subject: Re: Tyco Chattanooga Choo Choo
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16455	From: jake_iv@juno.com	Date: 4/7/2011
Subject: Re: Tyco Chattanooga Choo Choo
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16456	From: Richard	Date: 4/8/2011
Subject: CASEY JONES HO PIONEER SLEEVE SWITCH KIT
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16457	From: ckinzer@att.net	Date: 4/8/2011
Subject: Re: CASEY JONES HO PIONEER SLEEVE SWITCH KIT
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16458	From: Gary Mittner	Date: 4/8/2011
Subject: For Sale: Steamers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16459	From: Gary Mittner	Date: 4/8/2011
Subject: For Sale: Vintage Brass Diesel. Have no idea what it is!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16460	From: Donald R. Staton	Date: 4/8/2011
Subject: Re: For Sale: Steamers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16461	From: Gary Mittner	Date: 4/8/2011
Subject: Re: For Sale: Steamers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16462	From: Donald R. Staton	Date: 4/8/2011
Subject: Re: For Sale: Steamers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16463	From: tieplatejunction	Date: 4/8/2011
Subject: Re: Tyco Chattanooga Choo Choo
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16464	From: Gary Mittner	Date: 4/8/2011
Subject: Re: For Sale: Vintage Brass Diesel. Have no idea what it is!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16465	From: dennyanspach	Date: 4/8/2011
Subject: Re: Tahoe Trucks was Red Ball Quikits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16466	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 4/9/2011
Subject: Re: Next Project [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16467	From: jim heckard	Date: 4/9/2011
Subject: Re: Next Project
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16468	From: jim heckard	Date: 4/9/2011
Subject: Re: Next Project
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16469	From: Gary Mittner	Date: 4/9/2011
Subject: For Sale: Bass 0-6-6-0 Steam
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16470	From: Nelson	Date: 4/9/2011
Subject: Re: Tyco Chattanooga Choo Choo
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16471	From: Nelson	Date: 4/9/2011
Subject: Re: Tyco Chattanooga Choo Choo
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16472	From: Graeme	Date: 4/9/2011
Subject: Re: CASEY JONES HO PIONEER SLEEVE SWITCH KIT
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16473	From: Nelson	Date: 4/9/2011
Subject: AHM Brass
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16474	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 4/9/2011
Subject: Re: Next Project
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16475	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 4/9/2011
Subject: Re: AHM Brass
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16476	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 4/9/2011
Subject: Re: Next Project
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16477	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 4/10/2011
Subject: Ostuco decal project
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16478	From: jake_iv@juno.com	Date: 4/10/2011
Subject: Re: AHM Brass
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16479	From: jake_iv@juno.com	Date: 4/10/2011
Subject: Re: AHM Brass
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16480	From: jake_iv@juno.com	Date: 4/10/2011
Subject: Re: Tyco Chattanooga Choo Choo
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16481	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 4/10/2011
Subject: Re: Next Project
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16482	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 4/10/2011
Subject: Re: Ostuco decal project [2 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16483	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 4/10/2011
Subject: Re: Ostuco decal project
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16484	From: Nelson	Date: 4/10/2011
Subject: Re: AHM Brass
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16485	From: Nelson	Date: 4/10/2011
Subject: Re: Next Project
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16486	From: Nelson	Date: 4/10/2011
Subject: Re: Tyco Chattanooga Choo Choo
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16487	From: rcjge	Date: 4/11/2011
Subject: 2-4-4T Forney Pics sought???
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16488	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 4/11/2011
Subject: Re: 2-4-4T Forney Pics sought???
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16489	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 4/11/2011
Subject: Re: 2-4-4T Forney Pics sought???
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16490	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 4/11/2011
Subject: Re: 2-4-4T Forney Pics sought???
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16491	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 4/12/2011
Subject: Re: 2-4-4T Forney Pics sought???
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16492	From: rcjge	Date: 4/12/2011
Subject: Re: 2-4-4T Forney Pics sought???
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16493	From: 23weldon	Date: 4/12/2011
Subject: Re: 2-4-4T Forney Pics sought???
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16494	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 4/13/2011
Subject: Re: 2-4-4T Forney Pics sought???
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16495	From: jim heckard	Date: 4/15/2011
Subject: addition to vintage collection
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16496	From: Jim Waterman	Date: 4/16/2011
Subject: Re: addition to vintage collection
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16497	From: rcjge	Date: 4/16/2011
Subject: Re: addition to vintage collection
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16498	From: jim heckard	Date: 4/16/2011
Subject: Re: addition to vintage collection
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16499	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 4/16/2011
Subject: Varney Steam Wheel Treads
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16500	From: jake_iv@juno.com	Date: 4/17/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Steam Wheel Treads
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16501	From: Donald R. Staton	Date: 4/17/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Steam Wheel Treads
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16502	From: dennyanspach	Date: 4/17/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Steam Wheel Treads
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16503	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 4/17/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Steam Wheel Treads
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16504	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 4/17/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Steam Wheel Treads
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16505	From: jim heckard	Date: 4/17/2011
Subject: American Flyer / Mantua FY&P 4-4-0
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16506	From: Richard White	Date: 4/25/2011
Subject: Attaching photographs to posts
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16507	From: jim heckard	Date: 4/25/2011
Subject: Pittman motor
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16508	From: jim heckard	Date: 4/25/2011
Subject: Re: Attaching photographs to posts
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16509	From: Glenn	Date: 4/25/2011
Subject: Re: Pittman motor
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16510	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 4/25/2011
Subject: Re: Attaching photographs to posts
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16511	From: Richard White	Date: 4/25/2011
Subject: Re: Attaching photographs to posts
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16512	From: jake_iv@juno.com	Date: 4/25/2011
Subject: Re: Pittman motor
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16513	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 4/25/2011
Subject: Re: Attaching photographs to posts
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16514	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 4/25/2011
Subject: Re: Attaching photographs to posts
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16515	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 4/26/2011
Subject: Re: Pittman motor
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16516	From: oljoe	Date: 4/26/2011
Subject: Re: Pittman motor
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16517	From: dennyanspach	Date: 4/26/2011
Subject: Re: Pittman motor
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16518	From: Richard White	Date: 4/26/2011
Subject: Red Ball rotary snowplow
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16519	From: cwrailman	Date: 4/29/2011
Subject: Pleased to make your acquaintance
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16520	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 4/29/2011
Subject: Re: Pleased to make your acquaintance
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16521	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 4/30/2011
Subject: Re: Pleased to make your acquaintance
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16522	From: Jim Waterman	Date: 4/30/2011
Subject: Re: Pleased to make your acquaintance
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16523	From: madchemep2@aol.com	Date: 4/30/2011
Subject: Re: Pleased to make your acquaintance
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16524	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 4/30/2011
Subject: Re: Pleased to make your acquaintance
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16525	From: cwrailman	Date: 4/30/2011
Subject: Re: Pleased to make your acquaintance
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16526	From: Nelson	Date: 5/1/2011
Subject: Re: Pleased to make your acquaintance
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16527	From: Rick Steele	Date: 5/1/2011
Subject: Re: Pleased to make your acquaintance
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16528	From: cwrailman	Date: 5/1/2011
Subject: Re: Pleased to make your acquaintance
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16529	From: Rick Steele	Date: 5/2/2011
Subject: Re: Pleased to make your acquaintance
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16530	From: cwrailman	Date: 5/2/2011
Subject: Re: Pleased to make your acquaintance
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16531	From: cwrailman	Date: 5/2/2011
Subject: Posted several plans for bashing LaBelle kits.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16532	From: cwrailman	Date: 5/3/2011
Subject: Re: AHM Brass
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16533	From: jim heckard	Date: 5/3/2011
Subject: need part
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16534	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 5/3/2011
Subject: Re: need part
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16535	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 5/3/2011
Subject: Layout News
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16536	From: Chris B	Date: 5/4/2011
Subject: Re: need part
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16537	From: jim heckard	Date: 5/4/2011
Subject: Re: need part
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16538	From: Chris B	Date: 5/4/2011
Subject: Re: need part
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16539	From: dennyanspach	Date: 5/4/2011
Subject: Re: AHM Brass
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16540	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 5/4/2011
Subject: Re: AHM Brass
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16541	From: docdenny34	Date: 5/4/2011
Subject: Re: AHM Brass
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16542	From: Jim Waterman	Date: 5/4/2011
Subject: Re: AHM Brass
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16543	From: jim heckard	Date: 5/5/2011
Subject: New vintage collection addition
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16544	From: cwrailman	Date: 5/5/2011
Subject: Bashing LaBelle passenger cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16545	From: raul@wi.rr.com	Date: 5/5/2011
Subject: Re: New vintage collection addition
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16546	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 5/5/2011
Subject: Re: New vintage collection addition
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16547	From: Glenn	Date: 5/5/2011
Subject: Re: Bashing LaBelle passenger cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16548	From: Chris B	Date: 5/5/2011
Subject: Re: New vintage collection addition
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16549	From: Chris B	Date: 5/5/2011
Subject: W&OD layout (benchwork rebuild) update
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16550	From: jim heckard	Date: 5/6/2011
Subject: Re: New vintage collection addition
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16551	From: jim heckard	Date: 5/6/2011
Subject: Re: W&OD layout (benchwork rebuild) update [10 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16552	From: Chris B	Date: 5/6/2011
Subject: Re: W&OD layout (benchwork rebuild) update
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16553	From: jim heckard	Date: 5/6/2011
Subject: American Flyer / Mantua FY&P 4-4-0
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16554	From: Garry Spear	Date: 5/6/2011
Subject: Re: American Flyer / Mantua FY&P 4-4-0 [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16555	From: jim heckard	Date: 5/6/2011
Subject: Re: American Flyer / Mantua FY&P 4-4-0
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16556	From: Chris B	Date: 5/6/2011
Subject: Re: American Flyer / Mantua FY&P 4-4-0 [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16557	From: Chris B	Date: 5/6/2011
Subject: Re: American Flyer / Mantua FY&P 4-4-0
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16558	From: jim heckard	Date: 5/6/2011
Subject: Re: American Flyer / Mantua FY&P 4-4-0
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16559	From: Richard White	Date: 5/6/2011
Subject: Building old Walthers passenger car
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16560	From: J Dampier	Date: 5/6/2011
Subject: Parts needed
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16561	From: Glenn	Date: 5/6/2011
Subject: Re: Building old Walthers passenger car
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16562	From: gregory r	Date: 5/6/2011
Subject: Re: Bashing LaBelle passenger cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16563	From: gregory r	Date: 5/6/2011
Subject: Re: Building old Walthers passenger car
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16564	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 5/6/2011
Subject: Re: Building old Walthers passenger car
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16565	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 5/6/2011
Subject: Re: Building old Walthers passenger car
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16566	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 5/6/2011
Subject: Re: Building old Walthers passenger car
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16567	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 5/6/2011
Subject: Re: Building old Walthers passenger car
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16568	From: Nelson	Date: 5/7/2011
Subject: Re: AHM Brass
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16569	From: Nelson	Date: 5/7/2011
Subject: Re: AHM Brass
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16570	From: Denny Anspach	Date: 5/7/2011
Subject: Re: Building old Walthers passenger car
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16571	From: cwrailman	Date: 5/7/2011
Subject: Re: Bashing LaBelle passenger cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16572	From: cwrailman	Date: 5/7/2011
Subject: Re: AHM Brass
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16573	From: Glenn	Date: 5/7/2011
Subject: Re: AHM Brass
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16574	From: cwrailman	Date: 5/7/2011
Subject: Re: AHM Brass
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16575	From: Lawrence	Date: 5/7/2011
Subject: Re: Building old Walthers passenger car
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16576	From: Richard White	Date: 5/7/2011
Subject: Re: Building old Walthers passenger car
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16577	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 5/7/2011
Subject: Re: Building old Walthers passenger car
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16578	From: Lawrence	Date: 5/7/2011
Subject: Re: Building old Walthers passenger car
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16579	From: railroads@slingshot.co.nz	Date: 5/7/2011
Subject: ID Waznted - 40ft Box Car - SP
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16580	From: Glenn	Date: 5/7/2011
Subject: Re: Building old Walthers passenger car
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16581	From: Russ Shiel	Date: 5/7/2011
Subject: Re: ID Waznted - 40ft Box Car - SP
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16582	From: Russ Shiel	Date: 5/7/2011
Subject: Re: boxcar ID - SP not SP&S!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16583	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 5/7/2011
Subject: Re: Building old Walthers passenger car
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16584	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 5/7/2011
Subject: Re: ID Waznted - 40ft Box Car - SP
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16585	From: Model RailRoad	Date: 5/8/2011
Subject: Re: ID Waznted - 40ft Box Car - SP
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16586	From: mark_h_charles	Date: 5/8/2011
Subject: Re: Bashing LaBelle passenger cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16587	From: cwrailman	Date: 5/8/2011
Subject: Re: Bashing LaBelle passenger cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16588	From: cwrailman	Date: 5/8/2011
Subject: Looking for Westerfield lettering diagram sheet
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16589	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 5/8/2011
Subject: Re: Bashing LaBelle passenger cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16590	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 5/8/2011
Subject: Re: Bashing LaBelle passenger cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16591	From: Douglas	Date: 5/8/2011
Subject: Walthers gas electrics
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16592	From: Nelson	Date: 5/10/2011
Subject: Re: AHM Brass
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16593	From: cwrailman	Date: 5/10/2011
Subject: Re: AHM Brass
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16594	From: cwrailman	Date: 5/10/2011
Subject: Re: Building old Walthers passenger car
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16595	From: cwrailman	Date: 5/10/2011
Subject: A discussion of adhesives for build wood kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16596	From: David J. Starr	Date: 5/10/2011
Subject: Re: A discussion of adhesives for build wood kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16597	From: Carl Neste	Date: 5/10/2011
Subject: Re: A discussion of adhesives for build wood kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16598	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 5/10/2011
Subject: Re: Building old Walthers passenger car
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16599	From: Richard White	Date: 5/10/2011
Subject: Decals for the Nevada Northern RR
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16600	From: Denny Anspach	Date: 5/11/2011
Subject: Re: Building old Walthers passenger car
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16601	From: Denny Anspach	Date: 5/11/2011
Subject: Re: A discussion of adhesives for build wood kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16602	From: Glenn	Date: 5/11/2011
Subject: Re: A discussion of adhesives for build wood kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16603	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 5/11/2011
Subject: Re: A discussion of adhesives for build wood kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16604	From: Carl Neste	Date: 5/11/2011
Subject: Re: A discussion of adhesives for build wood kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16605	From: cwrailman	Date: 5/11/2011
Subject: Re: A discussion of adhesives for build wood kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16606	From: cwrailman	Date: 5/11/2011
Subject: Re: A discussion of adhesives for build wood kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16607	From: Rick Jones	Date: 5/11/2011
Subject: Re: A discussion of adhesives for build wood kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16608	From: Nelson	Date: 5/11/2011
Subject: Re: AHM Brass
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16609	From: cwrailman	Date: 5/11/2011
Subject: Re: A discussion of adhesives for build wood kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16610	From: docdenny34	Date: 5/11/2011
Subject: Re: A discussion of adhesives for build wood kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16611	From: Denny Anspach	Date: 5/11/2011
Subject: Re: A discussion of adhesives for build wood kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16612	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 5/12/2011
Subject: Re: A discussion of adhesives for build wood kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16613	From: RalphB	Date: 5/12/2011
Subject: Why we like kit building
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16614	From: cwrailman	Date: 5/12/2011
Subject: Re: Why we like kit building
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16615	From: ablecynic	Date: 5/13/2011
Subject: Re: Why we like kit building
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16616	From: Denny Anspach	Date: 5/13/2011
Subject: Re: A discussion of adhesives for build wood kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16617	From: jim heckard	Date: 5/13/2011
Subject: AF / Mantua FY&P 4-4-0
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16618	From: Richard White	Date: 5/13/2011
Subject: Re: A discussion of adhesives for build wood kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16619	From: nvrr49	Date: 5/13/2011
Subject: Re: A discussion of adhesives for build wood kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16620	From: jake_iv@juno.com	Date: 5/14/2011
Subject: Re: AF / Mantua FY&P 4-4-0 [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16621	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 5/14/2011
Subject: Re: AF / Mantua FY&P 4-4-0 [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16622	From: Denny Anspach	Date: 5/14/2011
Subject: Re: A discussion of adhesives for build wood kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16623	From: nvrr49	Date: 5/14/2011
Subject: Re: Why we like kit building
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16624	From: The Danish Duke	Date: 5/14/2011
Subject: Re: Why we like kit building
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16625	From: Russ Shiel	Date: 5/15/2011
Subject: Instruction sheet sought
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16626	From: tom bell	Date: 5/15/2011
Subject: Re: Brass Betsy Instruction sheet sought
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16627	From: Askerberg	Date: 5/15/2011
Subject: Varney diesel switcher
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16628	From: cwrailman	Date: 5/16/2011
Subject: Re: Bashing LaBelle passenger cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16629	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 5/17/2011
Subject: Re: Bashing LaBelle passenger cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16630	From: Charles	Date: 5/17/2011
Subject: Re: Bashing LaBelle passenger cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16631	From: cwrailman	Date: 5/17/2011
Subject: Re: Bashing LaBelle passenger cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16632	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 5/17/2011
Subject: Re: Bashing LaBelle passenger cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16633	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 5/17/2011
Subject: Re: Bashing LaBelle passenger cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16634	From: cwrailman	Date: 5/17/2011
Subject: Re: Bashing LaBelle passenger cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16635	From: Glenn	Date: 5/17/2011
Subject: Re: Bashing LaBelle passenger cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16636	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 5/17/2011
Subject: Re: Bashing LaBelle passenger cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16637	From: cwrailman	Date: 5/17/2011
Subject: Lindsey Motor up for grabs
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16638	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 5/18/2011
Subject: Re: Bashing LaBelle passenger cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16639	From: Glenn	Date: 5/18/2011
Subject: Re: Bashing LaBelle passenger cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16640	From: bitlerisvj@hotmail.com	Date: 5/18/2011
Subject: Varney OSTUCO gondola
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16641	From: Don Hud	Date: 5/19/2011
Subject: Re: Varney OSTUCO gondola
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16642	From: bitlerisvj@hotmail.com	Date: 5/19/2011
Subject: Re: Varney OSTUCO gondola
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16643	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 5/19/2011
Subject: Re: Varney OSTUCO gondola
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16644	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 5/19/2011
Subject: Re: Varney OSTUCO gondola
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16645	From: Don Hud	Date: 5/19/2011
Subject: Re: Varney OSTUCO gondola
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16646	From: cwrailman	Date: 5/20/2011
Subject: Building a Varney Coach Presentation
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16647	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 5/20/2011
Subject: Re: Building a Varney Coach Presentation
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16648	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 5/20/2011
Subject: Re: Building a Varney Coach Presentation
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16649	From: Robert	Date: 5/20/2011
Subject: Hobbyline FM 10-44
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16650	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 5/21/2011
Subject: Re: Hobbyline FM 10-44
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16651	From: william witte	Date: 5/21/2011
Subject: Re: Hobbyline FM 10-44 [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16652	From: antiquestoyscollectibles	Date: 5/22/2011
Subject: Tenshodo & Japan Brass Trains
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16653	From: John Barlow	Date: 5/22/2011
Subject: Re: Tenshodo & Japan Brass Trains
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16654	From: Glenn	Date: 5/22/2011
Subject: Re: Tenshodo & Japan Brass Trains
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16655	From: ablecynic	Date: 5/23/2011
Subject: Re: Tenshodo & Japan Brass Trains
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16656	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 5/23/2011
Subject: Re: Tenshodo & Japan Brass Trains
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16657	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 5/23/2011
Subject: Re: Tenshodo & Japan Brass Trains
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16658	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 5/23/2011
Subject: Re: Tenshodo & Japan Brass Trains
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16659	From: cwrailman	Date: 5/23/2011
Subject: Re: Tenshodo & Japan Brass Trains
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16660	From: cwrailman	Date: 5/23/2011
Subject: Re: Tenshodo & Japan Brass Trains
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16661	From: cwrailman	Date: 5/23/2011
Subject: Re: Tenshodo & Japan Brass Trains
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16662	From: jim heckard	Date: 5/23/2011
Subject: Conover Valve Gear Parts
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16663	From: ablecynic	Date: 5/23/2011
Subject: Re: Tenshodo & Japan Brass Trains
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16664	From: Glenn	Date: 5/23/2011
Subject: Re: Tenshodo & Japan Brass Trains
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16665	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 5/23/2011
Subject: Re: Tenshodo & Japan Brass Trains
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16666	From: Jim Waterman	Date: 5/23/2011
Subject: Re: Tenshodo & Japan Brass Trains
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16667	From: Richard White	Date: 5/23/2011
Subject: Re: Conover Valve Gear Parts [3 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16668	From: Glenn	Date: 5/23/2011
Subject: Re: Tenshodo & Japan Brass Trains
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16669	From: erieberk	Date: 5/23/2011
Subject: Re: Conover Valve Gear Parts
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16670	From: jim heckard	Date: 5/24/2011
Subject: Re: Conover Valve Gear Parts
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16671	From: erieberk	Date: 5/24/2011
Subject: Re: Conover Valve Gear Parts
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16672	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 5/24/2011
Subject: Ostuco gondola via Walthers 46' gon
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16673	From: jim heckard	Date: 5/24/2011
Subject: Re: Conover Valve Gear Parts
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16674	From: WalterB	Date: 5/24/2011
Subject: American Beauty line HO Jerry Martin Centriclutch
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16675	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 5/24/2011
Subject: Re: American Beauty line HO Jerry Martin Centriclutch
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16676	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 5/24/2011
Subject: Re: American Beauty line HO Jerry Martin Centriclutch
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16677	From: jake_iv@juno.com	Date: 5/25/2011
Subject: Re: American Beauty line HO Jerry Martin Centriclutch
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16678	From: cwrailman	Date: 5/25/2011
Subject: MR Changes policy about articles
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16679	From: Glenn	Date: 5/25/2011
Subject: Re: MR Changes policy about articles
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16680	From: Glenn	Date: 5/25/2011
Subject: Re: American Beauty line HO Jerry Martin Centriclutch
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16681	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 5/25/2011
Subject: Re: MR Changes policy about articles
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16682	From: cwrailman	Date: 5/25/2011
Subject: Re: MR Changes policy about articles
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16683	From: Graeme	Date: 5/25/2011
Subject: Re: MR Changes policy about articles
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16684	From: Rick Jones	Date: 5/25/2011
Subject: Re: MR Changes policy about articles
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16685	From: cwrailman	Date: 5/25/2011
Subject: Re: MR Changes policy about articles (CORRECTION I HOPE)
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16686	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 5/25/2011
Subject: Re: MR Changes policy about articles (CORRECTION I HOPE)
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16687	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 5/25/2011
Subject: Re: MR Changes policy about articles (CORRECTION I HOPE)
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16688	From: Glenn	Date: 5/25/2011
Subject: Re: MR Changes policy about articles (CORRECTION I HOPE)
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16689	From: John Webster	Date: 5/26/2011
Subject: Re: Conover Valve Gear Parts
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16690	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 5/26/2011
Subject: Re: Conover Valve Gear Parts
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16691	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 5/26/2011
Subject: Re: MR Changes policy about articles (CORRECTION I HOPE)
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16692	From: Glenn	Date: 5/26/2011
Subject: Re: MR Changes policy about articles (CORRECTION I HOPE)
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16693	From: cwrailman	Date: 5/26/2011
Subject: Re: MR Changes policy about articles (CORRECTION I HOPE)
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16694	From: cwrailman	Date: 5/26/2011
Subject: Looking for a particular article?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16695	From: jbark76	Date: 5/26/2011
Subject: Re: Conover Valve Gear Parts
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16696	From: Railroad Modeler	Date: 5/26/2011
Subject: Re: MR Changes policy about articles (CORRECTION I HOPE)
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16697	From: Chris B	Date: 5/26/2011
Subject: "scratchbuilding" was: MR Changes policy about articles (CORRECTIO
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16698	From: cwrailman	Date: 5/26/2011
Subject: Re: "scratchbuilding" was: MR Changes policy about articles (CORRE
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16699	From: Denny Anspach	Date: 5/27/2011
Subject: Re: Tenshodo & Japan Brass Trains
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16700	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 5/28/2011
Subject: Re: Tenshodo & Japan Brass Trains
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16701	From: Dale Hokanson	Date: 5/28/2011
Subject: Re: Tenshodo
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16702	From: Lawrence	Date: 5/30/2011
Subject: New mechs for old brass locos
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16703	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 5/30/2011
Subject: Kemtron "PUFFERBELLY" C&NW Pioneer HO Steam Locomotive
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16704	From: cwrailman	Date: 5/30/2011
Subject: Re: New mechs for old brass locos
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16705	From: Railroad Modeler	Date: 5/30/2011
Subject: Re: Kemtron "PUFFERBELLY" C&NW Pioneer HO Steam Locomotive
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16706	From: Gerold Eckl	Date: 5/30/2011
Subject: Re: New mechs for old brass locos
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16707	From: Glenn	Date: 5/30/2011
Subject: Re: Kemtron "PUFFERBELLY" C&NW Pioneer HO Steam Locomotive
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16708	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 5/31/2011
Subject: Re: Kemtron "PUFFERBELLY" C&NW Pioneer HO Steam Locomotive
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16709	From: dennyanspach	Date: 5/31/2011
Subject: Re: New mechs for old brass locos
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16710	From: Ray Marinaccio	Date: 5/31/2011
Subject: Re: Kemtron "PUFFERBELLY" C&NW Pioneer HO Steam Locomotive
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16711	From: Gerold Eckl	Date: 5/31/2011
Subject: Re: Kemtron "PUFFERBELLY" C&NW Pioneer HO Steam Locomotive
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16712	From: Donald R. Staton	Date: 6/1/2011
Subject: ATTENTION MODERATOR - INQUIRY
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16713	From: jbark76	Date: 6/1/2011
Subject: Re: Kemtron "PUFFERBELLY" C&NW Pioneer HO Steam Locomotive
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16714	From: John Webster	Date: 6/2/2011
Subject: Re: Kemtron "PUFFERBELLY" C&NW Pioneer HO Steam Locomotive
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16715	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 6/2/2011
Subject: Re: Kemtron "PUFFERBELLY" C&NW Pioneer HO Steam Locomotive
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16716	From: Glenn	Date: 6/2/2011
Subject: Re: Kemtron "PUFFERBELLY" C&NW Pioneer HO Steam Locomotive
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16717	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 6/3/2011
Subject: Re: Kemtron "PUFFERBELLY" C&NW Pioneer HO Steam Locomotive
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16718	From: WalterB	Date: 6/3/2011
Subject: NYC Hudson
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16719	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 6/3/2011
Subject: Re: NYC Hudson
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16720	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 6/3/2011
Subject: Re: NYC Hudson
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16721	From: John H	Date: 6/3/2011
Subject: Re: NYC Hudson
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16722	From: Glenn	Date: 6/3/2011
Subject: stuff found
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16723	From: Jens	Date: 6/3/2011
Subject: deleting former ebay Powerseller Gold Shop with Items HO,N,O,On30,G
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16724	From: Rick Jones	Date: 6/4/2011
Subject: Renumbering
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16725	From: jim heckard	Date: 6/4/2011
Subject: Conover Paperwork
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16726	From: Jim Waterman	Date: 6/5/2011
Subject: Re: Renumbering
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16727	From: Andrew Emmerson	Date: 6/5/2011
Subject: Re: Renumbering
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16728	From: cwrailman	Date: 6/7/2011
Subject: Re: Renumbering
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16730	From: Charles	Date: 6/7/2011
Subject: Re: Renumbering
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16731	From: dasha	Date: 6/7/2011
Subject: Blue Line Passenger cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16732	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 6/7/2011
Subject: Re: Blue Line Passenger cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16733	From: Richard White	Date: 6/7/2011
Subject: Re: Blue Line Passenger cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16734	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 6/7/2011
Subject: Re: Blue Line Passenger cars [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16735	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 6/7/2011
Subject: Re: Blue Line Passenger cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16736	From: Richard White	Date: 6/7/2011
Subject: Re: Blue Line Passenger cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16737	From: Rick Jones	Date: 6/7/2011
Subject: Re: Renumbering
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16738	From: cwrailman	Date: 6/8/2011
Subject: Looking to trade Walthers passenger cars for Ambroid passenger cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16739	From: Jack Kelley	Date: 6/8/2011
Subject: Wanted - Athearn #5407
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16740	From: jbark76	Date: 6/8/2011
Subject: Re: Blue Line Passenger cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16741	From: cwrailman	Date: 6/8/2011
Subject: Dens Hobby Shop
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16742	From: herb1013@epix.net	Date: 6/8/2011
Subject: Re: Dens Hobby Shop
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16743	From: herb1013@epix.net	Date: 6/8/2011
Subject: Re: Dens Hobby Shop [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16744	From: herb1013@epix.net	Date: 6/8/2011
Subject: Re: Dens Hobby Shop [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16745	From: Railroad Modeler	Date: 6/8/2011
Subject: Re: Dens Hobby Shop
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16746	From: cwrailman	Date: 6/8/2011
Subject: Re: Dens Hobby Shop
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16747	From: cwrailman	Date: 6/8/2011
Subject: Re: Dens Hobby Shop
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16748	From: Railroad Modeler	Date: 6/8/2011
Subject: Re: Dens Hobby Shop
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16749	From: herb1013@epix.net	Date: 6/8/2011
Subject: Re: Dens Hobby Shop
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16750	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 6/8/2011
Subject: Re: Dens Hobby Shop [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16751	From: cwrailman	Date: 6/8/2011
Subject: Dens Hobby Shop New Central Valley kits arrived today
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16752	From: jbark76	Date: 6/9/2011
Subject: MRR DVD collection
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16753	From: nvrr49	Date: 6/9/2011
Subject: Re: Dens Hobby Shop New Central Valley kits arrived today
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16754	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 6/9/2011
Subject: Re: MRR DVD collection
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16755	From: cwrailman	Date: 6/9/2011
Subject: Re: Dens Hobby Shop New Central Valley kits arrived today
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16756	From: John H	Date: 6/9/2011
Subject: Re: MRR DVD collection
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16757	From: cwrailman	Date: 6/9/2011
Subject: Re: MRR DVD collection
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16758	From: olharoldatfrl@aol.com	Date: 6/9/2011
Subject: Re: Dens Hobby Shop
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16759	From: Gerold Eckl	Date: 6/9/2011
Subject: Re: MRR DVD collection
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16760	From: cwrailman	Date: 6/9/2011
Subject: Re: Dens Hobby Shop
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16761	From: John H	Date: 6/9/2011
Subject: Re: MRR DVD collection
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16762	From: John H	Date: 6/9/2011
Subject: Re: MRR DVD collection
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16763	From: Mike Sloane	Date: 6/9/2011
Subject: Re: MRR DVD collection
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16764	From: jbark76	Date: 6/9/2011
Subject: Re: MRR DVD collection
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16765	From: jbark76	Date: 6/9/2011
Subject: Re: MRR DVD collection
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16766	From: John H	Date: 6/9/2011
Subject: Re: MRR DVD collection
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16767	From: corlissbs@aol.com	Date: 6/9/2011
Subject: Re: MRR DVD collection
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16768	From: John H	Date: 6/9/2011
Subject: Re: MRR DVD collection
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16769	From: Charles	Date: 6/9/2011
Subject: Re: MRR DVD collection
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16770	From: John Barlow	Date: 6/9/2011
Subject: Re: Dens Hobby Shop New Central Valley kits arrived today
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16771	From: cwrailman	Date: 6/9/2011
Subject: Re: Dens Hobby Shop New Central Valley kits arrived today
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16772	From: 23weldon	Date: 6/9/2011
Subject: Re: Dens Hobby Shop
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16773	From: cwrailman	Date: 6/9/2011
Subject: Re: Dens Hobby Shop
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16774	From: Ed	Date: 6/9/2011
Subject: Re: Dens Hobby Shop
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16775	From: Railroad Modeler	Date: 6/9/2011
Subject: Re: Dens Hobby Shop
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16776	From: dennyanspach	Date: 6/10/2011
Subject: Re: MRR DVD collection
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16777	From: Mike Sloane	Date: 6/10/2011
Subject: Re: MRR DVD collection
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16778	From: Glenn	Date: 6/10/2011
Subject: Re: MRR DVD collection
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16779	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 6/11/2011
Subject: CM&StP decals
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16780	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 6/11/2011
Subject: Re: CM&StP decals
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16781	From: mark_h_charles	Date: 6/11/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers gas electrics
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16782	From: cwrailman	Date: 6/11/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers gas electrics
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16783	From: Dana Adams	Date: 6/11/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers gas electrics
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16784	From: Chris B	Date: 6/11/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers gas electrics
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16785	From: Chris B	Date: 6/11/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers gas electrics
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16786	From: dennyanspach	Date: 6/12/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers gas electrics
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16787	From: cwrailman	Date: 6/13/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers gas electrics
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16788	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 6/13/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers gas electrics
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16789	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 6/13/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers gas electrics
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16790	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 6/14/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers gas electrics
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16791	From: ablecynic	Date: 6/14/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers gas electrics
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16792	From: cwrailman	Date: 6/14/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Passenger Cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16793	From: dennyanspach	Date: 6/14/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers gas electrics
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16794	From: Richard White	Date: 6/14/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Passenger Cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16795	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 6/14/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers gas electrics
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16796	From: keith gutshall	Date: 6/14/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Passenger Cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16797	From: keith gutshall	Date: 6/14/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers gas electrics
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16798	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 6/14/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Passenger Cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16799	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 6/14/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Passenger Cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16800	From: jake_iv@juno.com	Date: 6/14/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Passenger Cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16801	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 6/14/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Passenger Cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16802	From: cwrailman	Date: 6/14/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Passenger Cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16803	From: Charlie	Date: 6/14/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Passenger Cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16804	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 6/15/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Passenger Cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16805	From: ablecynic	Date: 6/15/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers gas electrics
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16806	From: jim heckard	Date: 6/15/2011
Subject: Wathers Pug Passenger Car Set
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16807	From: dennyanspach	Date: 6/15/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Passenger Cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16808	From: cwrailman	Date: 6/15/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Passenger Cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16809	From: cwrailman	Date: 6/15/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Passenger Cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16810	From: cwrailman	Date: 6/15/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Passenger Cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16811	From: jim heckard	Date: 6/15/2011
Subject: Walthers Gas Electric
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16812	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 6/15/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Gas Electric [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16813	From: jim heckard	Date: 6/15/2011
Subject: Walthers Gas Electric Doodlbug
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16814	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 6/15/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Passenger Cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16815	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 6/15/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Gas Electric Doodlbug [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16816	From: dennyanspach	Date: 6/15/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Passenger Cars- a correction
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16817	From: Railroad Modeler	Date: 6/15/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Gas Electric Doodlebug [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16818	From: railroadmodeler	Date: 6/15/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Gas Electric Doodlebug [1 Attachment] - side post about
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16819	From: jim heckard	Date: 6/15/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Gas Electric Doodlebug
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16820	From: Railroad Modeler	Date: 6/15/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Gas Electric Doodlebug [1 Attachment] - TEST post about
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16821	From: jim heckard	Date: 6/15/2011
Subject: Walthers PUG passenger cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16822	From: cwrailman	Date: 6/15/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers PUG passenger cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16823	From: jim heckard	Date: 6/16/2011
Subject: Dens Hobby Shop
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16824	From: cwrailman	Date: 6/16/2011
Subject: Re: Dens Hobby Shop
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16825	From: jim heckard	Date: 6/16/2011
Subject: Re: Dens Hobby Shop
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16826	From: jim heckard	Date: 6/16/2011
Subject: Walther's M-190 Shuttle Jack
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16827	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 6/16/2011
Subject: Re: Walther's M-190 Shuttle Jack [2 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16828	From: jim heckard	Date: 6/16/2011
Subject: Re: Walther's M-190 Shuttle Jack
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16829	From: cwrailman	Date: 6/16/2011
Subject: Re: Walther's M-190 Shuttle Jack
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16830	From: Charlie	Date: 6/16/2011
Subject: Re: Dens Hobby Shop
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16831	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 6/16/2011
Subject: What I've been doing lately
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16832	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 6/16/2011
Subject: Re: What I've been doing lately [2 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16833	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 6/16/2011
Subject: Re: What I've been doing lately
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16834	From: jim heckard	Date: 6/17/2011
Subject: Re: Walther's M-190 Shuttle Jack
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16835	From: ablecynic	Date: 6/17/2011
Subject: Re: Walther's M-190 Shuttle Jack
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16836	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 6/17/2011
Subject: Re: What I've been doing lately
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16837	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 6/17/2011
Subject: Lindsay Ghost boxcar.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16838	From: jim heckard	Date: 6/17/2011
Subject: Re: Walther's M-190 Shuttle Jack
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16839	From: Wally Weart	Date: 6/17/2011
Subject: Re: Walther's M-190 Shuttle Jack
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16840	From: jim heckard	Date: 6/17/2011
Subject: Re: Lindsay Ghost boxcar.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16841	From: Mary Long	Date: 6/17/2011
Subject: Re: Walther's M-190 Shuttle Jack
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16842	From: Glenn	Date: 6/17/2011
Subject: Re: Walther's M-190 Shuttle Jack
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16843	From: Wally Weart	Date: 6/17/2011
Subject: Repowering old equipment
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16844	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 6/17/2011
Subject: Re: Repowering old equipment
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16845	From: John H	Date: 6/17/2011
Subject: Re: Repowering old equipment
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16846	From: jake_iv@juno.com	Date: 6/17/2011
Subject: Re: Mantua valve gear
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16847	From: Wobbly913	Date: 6/17/2011
Subject: Re: Walther's M-190 Shuttle Jack
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16848	From: ablecynic	Date: 6/18/2011
Subject: Re: Walther's M-190 Shuttle Jack
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16849	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 6/18/2011
Subject: Re: Walther's M-190 Shuttle Jack
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16850	From: Denny Anspach	Date: 6/18/2011
Subject: Re: Walther's M-190 Shuttle Jack
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16851	From: jim heckard	Date: 6/18/2011
Subject: Re: Walther's M-190 Shuttle Jack
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16852	From: Rick Jones	Date: 6/18/2011
Subject: New Old Stuff
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16853	From: John H	Date: 6/18/2011
Subject: Re: New Old Stuff
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16854	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 6/18/2011
Subject: Re: New Old Stuff [2 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16855	From: Rick Jones	Date: 6/18/2011
Subject: Re: New Old Stuff
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16856	From: Rick Jones	Date: 6/18/2011
Subject: Re: New Old Stuff
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16857	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 6/19/2011
Subject: Re: New Old Stuff
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16858	From: ablecynic	Date: 6/19/2011
Subject: Re: Walther's M-190 Shuttle Jack
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16859	From: jim heckard	Date: 6/19/2011
Subject: Re: Walther's M-190 Shuttle Jack
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16860	From: Gerold Eckl	Date: 6/19/2011
Subject: Re: Walther's M-190 Shuttle Jack
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16861	From: tomvanhoy	Date: 6/19/2011
Subject: Walther's shuttle jack
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16862	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 6/19/2011
Subject: Re: Walther's shuttle jack
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16863	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 6/20/2011
Subject: Re: Walther's shuttle jack
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16864	From: ablecynic	Date: 6/20/2011
Subject: Re: Walther's shuttle jack
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16865	From: Glenn	Date: 6/20/2011
Subject: Re: Walther's shuttle jack
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16866	From: jake_iv@juno.com	Date: 6/20/2011
Subject: Re: NWSL PDT drive
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16867	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 6/20/2011
Subject: Re: Walther's shuttle jack
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16868	From: tomvanhoy	Date: 6/20/2011
Subject: shuttle jack stuff
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16869	From: cwrailman	Date: 6/20/2011
Subject: Re: Walther's shuttle jack
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16870	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 6/20/2011
Subject: Re: Walther's shuttle jack
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16871	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 6/20/2011
Subject: Re: Walther's shuttle jack
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16872	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 6/20/2011
Subject: MR cd's
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16873	From: John H	Date: 6/20/2011
Subject: Re: MR cd's
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16874	From: John H	Date: 6/20/2011
Subject: Re: MR cd's
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16875	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 6/21/2011
Subject: Re: MR cd's
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16876	From: Gary Woodard	Date: 6/21/2011
Subject: Re: MR cd's
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16877	From: cwrailman	Date: 6/21/2011
Subject: Re: MR cd's
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16878	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 6/21/2011
Subject: Re: MR cd's
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16879	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 6/21/2011
Subject: Re: MR cd's
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16880	From: Gary Woodard	Date: 6/21/2011
Subject: Re: MR cd's
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16881	From: Lennard Stewart	Date: 6/21/2011
Subject: Re: MR cd's
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16882	From: Rick Jones	Date: 6/21/2011
Subject: Re: MR cd's
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16883	From: Charles	Date: 6/21/2011
Subject: Re: MR cd's
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16884	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 6/21/2011
Subject: Re: MR cd's
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16885	From: cwrailman	Date: 6/22/2011
Subject: Re: MR cd's
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16886	From: Dick	Date: 6/23/2011
Subject: MR DVDs
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16887	From: Gary Woodard	Date: 6/23/2011
Subject: Re: MR DVDs
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16888	From: jim heckard	Date: 6/23/2011
Subject: Looking to buy
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16889	From: RalphB	Date: 6/24/2011
Subject: Re: MR DVDs
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16890	From: cwrailman	Date: 6/24/2011
Subject: Re: MR DVDs
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16891	From: cwrailman	Date: 6/24/2011
Subject: Re: MR DVDs
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16892	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 6/24/2011
Subject: Re: MR DVDs
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16893	From: jim heckard	Date: 6/26/2011
Subject: NYC Dreyfuss Tin Toy Engine
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16894	From: tom	Date: 6/26/2011
Subject: Vintage HOn3?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16895	From: ablecynic	Date: 6/27/2011
Subject: Re: Vintage HOn3?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16896	From: jim heckard	Date: 6/27/2011
Subject: Lindsay TT 0-4-0
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16897	From: corlissbs@aol.com	Date: 6/27/2011
Subject: Re: Lindsay TT 0-4-0 [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16898	From: jim heckard	Date: 6/27/2011
Subject: Re: Lindsay TT 0-4-0
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16899	From: Germain Golembowski	Date: 6/27/2011
Subject: Re: Lindsay TT 0-4-0
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16900	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 6/27/2011
Subject: Re: Lindsay TT 0-4-0
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16901	From: Richard White	Date: 6/27/2011
Subject: Central Valley trucks- Brass??
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16902	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 6/27/2011
Subject: Re: Central Valley trucks- Brass??
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16903	From: ablecynic	Date: 6/28/2011
Subject: Re: Lindsay TT 0-4-0
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16904	From: jim heckard	Date: 6/28/2011
Subject: Re: Lindsay TT 0-4-0
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16905	From: ablecynic	Date: 6/29/2011
Subject: Re: Lindsay TT 0-4-0
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16906	From: erieberk	Date: 6/29/2011
Subject: Re: Lindsay TT 0-4-0
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16907	From: erieberk	Date: 6/29/2011
Subject: Re: Lindsay TT 0-4-0
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16910	From: ablecynic	Date: 6/29/2011
Subject: Re: Photos of Lindsay Stubby in HOn3
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16911	From: tom bell	Date: 6/29/2011
Subject: Re: Photos of Lindsay Stubby in HOn3
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16912	From: ablecynic	Date: 6/29/2011
Subject: Re: Photos of Lindsay Stubby in HOn3
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16913	From: tom bell	Date: 6/29/2011
Subject: Re: Photos of Lindsay Stubby in HOn3
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16914	From: jim heckard	Date: 6/29/2011
Subject: Lindsay HO Stubby
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16915	From: ablecynic	Date: 6/30/2011
Subject: Re: Lindsay TT 0-4-0
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16916	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 6/30/2011
Subject: Re: Yellowstone Body
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16917	From: cwrailman	Date: 6/30/2011
Subject: Re: Yellowstone Body
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16918	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 6/30/2011
Subject: Re: Lindsay HO Stubby
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16919	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 6/30/2011
Subject: Re: Lindsay HO Stubby
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16920	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 6/30/2011
Subject: Re: Lindsay HO Stubby
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16921	From: louis niederlander	Date: 6/30/2011
Subject: Re: Lindsay HO Stubby
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16922	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 6/30/2011
Subject: Re: Lindsay HO Stubby
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16923	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 6/30/2011
Subject: Re: Lindsay HO Stubby
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16924	From: louis niederlander	Date: 6/30/2011
Subject: Re: Lindsay HO Stubby
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16925	From: 23weldon	Date: 6/30/2011
Subject: Re: Lindsay HO Stubby
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16926	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 6/30/2011
Subject: Re: Lindsay HO Stubby
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16927	From: jim heckard	Date: 7/1/2011
Subject: Unique Camelback
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16928	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 7/1/2011
Subject: Re: Unique Camelback
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16929	From: Glenn	Date: 7/1/2011
Subject: Re: Unique Camelback
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16930	From: John H	Date: 7/2/2011
Subject: Re: Unique Camelback
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16931	From: jbark76	Date: 7/3/2011
Subject: Varney 4-6-0
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16932	From: erieberk	Date: 7/4/2011
Subject: Re: Yellowstone Body
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16933	From: erieberk	Date: 7/4/2011
Subject: Re: Yellowstone Body
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16934	From: bitlerisvj@hotmail.com	Date: 7/5/2011
Subject: What I have been up to lately
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16936	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 7/5/2011
Subject: Re: What I have been up to lately
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16937	From: Richard White	Date: 7/5/2011
Subject: Old Hobbytown power chassis
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16938	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 7/5/2011
Subject: Re: Old Hobbytown power chassis [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16939	From: jake_iv@juno.com	Date: 7/5/2011
Subject: Re: Old Hobbytown power chassis [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16940	From: cwrailman	Date: 7/5/2011
Subject: Re: Old Hobbytown power chassis
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16941	From: Glenn	Date: 7/6/2011
Subject: Re: Old Hobbytown power chassis [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16942	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 7/6/2011
Subject: Re: Old Hobbytown power chassis
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16943	From: Glenn	Date: 7/6/2011
Subject: Re: Old Hobbytown power chassis
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16944	From: Dick	Date: 7/6/2011
Subject: Old Dry Transfers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16945	From: louis niederlander	Date: 7/6/2011
Subject: Re: Old Dry Transfers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16946	From: Fred Hultberg	Date: 7/7/2011
Subject: Rejuvenating Old Dry Transfers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16947	From: John H	Date: 7/7/2011
Subject: Re: What I have been up to lately
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16948	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 7/7/2011
Subject: Re: What I have been up to lately
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16950	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 7/8/2011
Subject: Re: Fwd: FW: Luve it!!!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16951	From: Don Grant	Date: 7/8/2011
Subject: Re: Fwd: FW: Luve it!!!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16952	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 7/8/2011
Subject: New acquisition
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16953	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 7/8/2011
Subject: Re: Fwd: FW: Luve it!!!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16954	From: Railroad Modeler	Date: 7/8/2011
Subject: Re: New acquisition
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16955	From: Jim Waterman	Date: 7/9/2011
Subject: Re: Fwd: FW: Luve it!!!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16956	From: ragc4x5x7	Date: 7/9/2011
Subject: Hello! New to this site...
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16957	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 7/9/2011
Subject: Re: Hello! New to this site...
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16958	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 7/9/2011
Subject: Re: Hello! New to this site...
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16959	From: bearbon	Date: 7/9/2011
Subject: Re: Lindsay HO Stubby
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16960	From: bearbon	Date: 7/9/2011
Subject: Re: Old Hobbytown power chassis
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16961	From: Dr. Robert Driggers	Date: 7/9/2011
Subject: Rivarossi parts
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16962	From: Richard White	Date: 7/9/2011
Subject: Re: Old Hobbytown power chassis
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16963	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 7/9/2011
Subject: Penn-Line Frame and Mantua Wabash Gondola Body?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16964	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 7/9/2011
Subject: Re: Penn-Line Frame and Mantua Wabash Gondola Body?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16965	From: Rich C	Date: 7/10/2011
Subject: Re: What I have been up to lately
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16966	From: oljoe	Date: 7/10/2011
Subject: Re: What I have been up to lately
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16967	From: ragc4x5x7	Date: 7/10/2011
Subject: Re: Hello! New to this site...
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16968	From: ragc4x5x7	Date: 7/10/2011
Subject: Re: Hello! New to this site...
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16969	From: william witte	Date: 7/10/2011
Subject: Re: Penn-Line Frame and Mantua Wabash Gondola Body?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16970	From: jim heckard	Date: 7/10/2011
Subject: Re: Penn-Line Frame and Mantua Wabash Gondola Body?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16971	From: Fred Hultberg	Date: 7/10/2011
Subject: Re: New Member
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16972	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 7/10/2011
Subject: Re: What I have been up to lately
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16973	From: jake_iv@juno.com	Date: 7/10/2011
Subject: Re: New acquisition - Ghost?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16974	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 7/10/2011
Subject: Re: New acquisition - Ghost?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16975	From: 23weldon	Date: 7/10/2011
Subject: Re: Lindsay HO Stubby
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16976	From: jim heckard	Date: 7/10/2011
Subject: Mint Lionel engine
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16977	From: jake_iv@juno.com	Date: 7/11/2011
Subject: Re: New acquisition - Ghost? [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16978	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 7/11/2011
Subject: Re: New acquisition - Ghost?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16979	From: jim heckard	Date: 7/11/2011
Subject: Re: New acquisition - Ghost?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16980	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 7/11/2011
Subject: Re: New acquisition - Ghost?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16981	From: John H	Date: 7/11/2011
Subject: Re: New acquisition - Ghost?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16982	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 7/11/2011
Subject: Re: New acquisition - Ghost?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16983	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 7/11/2011
Subject: Re: New acquisition - Ghost?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16984	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 7/11/2011
Subject: Re: New acquisition - Ghost?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16985	From: John H	Date: 7/11/2011
Subject: Re: New acquisition - Ghost?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16986	From: ragc4x5x7	Date: 7/11/2011
Subject: Re: New Member
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16987	From: Donald R. Staton	Date: 7/11/2011
Subject: Re: New Member
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16988	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 7/12/2011
Subject: Re: New Member
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16989	From: Donald R. Staton	Date: 7/12/2011
Subject: Re: New Member
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16990	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 7/15/2011
Subject: Lindsay Ghost boxcar.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16991	From: Glenn	Date: 7/15/2011
Subject: Re: Lindsay Ghost boxcar.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16992	From: ablecynic	Date: 7/16/2011
Subject: Re: Lindsay Ghost boxcar.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16993	From: Gerold Eckl	Date: 7/16/2011
Subject: Re: Lindsay Ghost boxcar.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16994	From: hspanier@aol.com	Date: 7/16/2011
Subject: Re: Lindsay Ghost boxcar.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16995	From: Riverboy	Date: 7/17/2011
Subject: Re: Lindsay Ghost boxcar.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16996	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 7/17/2011
Subject: Re: Lindsay Ghost boxcar.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16997	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 7/17/2011
Subject: Re: Lindsay Ghost boxcar.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16998	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 7/17/2011
Subject: Re: Lindsay Ghost boxcar.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 16999	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 7/17/2011
Subject: Re: Lindsay Ghost boxcar. [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17000	From: John H	Date: 7/17/2011
Subject: Re: Lindsay Ghost boxcar.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17001	From: Glenn	Date: 7/17/2011
Subject: Re: Lindsay Ghost boxcar.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17002	From: raul@wi.rr.com	Date: 7/17/2011
Subject: Re: Lindsay Ghost boxcar.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17003	From: cwrailman	Date: 7/18/2011
Subject: Re: Lindsay Ghost boxcar.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17004	From: Brock Lacy	Date: 7/19/2011
Subject: Need help?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17005	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 7/19/2011
Subject: picture attachment
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17006	From: Mike Sloane	Date: 7/19/2011
Subject: Re: picture attachment [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17007	From: Jay	Date: 7/19/2011
Subject: Re: picture attachment
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17008	From: Richard	Date: 7/19/2011
Subject: Mantua Worm Gear Cover Needed
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17009	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 7/19/2011
Subject: Re: picture attachment
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17010	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 7/19/2011
Subject: Re: Mantua Worm Gear Cover Needed
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17011	From: Jay	Date: 7/19/2011
Subject: Re: Lindsay Ghost boxcar.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17012	From: Glenn	Date: 7/19/2011
Subject: Re: picture attachment
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17013	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 7/19/2011
Subject: Re: Lindsay Ghost boxcar.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17014	From: Mike Sloane	Date: 7/19/2011
Subject: Re: picture attachment
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17015	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 7/19/2011
Subject: Hobbytown Static & Powered 0-4-0t
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17016	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 7/19/2011
Subject: Re: hoBBYLINE Static & Powered 0-4-0t
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17017	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 7/19/2011
Subject: I apologize
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17018	From: Jay	Date: 7/19/2011
Subject: Re: HObbyline Static & Powered; Lionel Powered 0-4-0T's
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17019	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 7/20/2011
Subject: Welcome back
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17020	From: Richard	Date: 7/20/2011
Subject: Re: Mantua Worm Gear Cover Needed
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17021	From: John Webster	Date: 7/21/2011
Subject: Re: Mantua Worm Gear Cover Needed
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17022	From: Jay	Date: 7/21/2011
Subject: Re: Welcome back
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17023	From: Jay Wanczyk	Date: 7/22/2011
Subject: EMC Model 60 Boxcab Gas Electric Switcher, Lehigh Valley Prototype
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17024	From: jake_iv@juno.com	Date: 7/22/2011
Subject: Re: EMC Model 60 Boxcab Gas Electric Switcher, Lehigh Vall ey Protot
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17025	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 7/22/2011
Subject: Box Cab Diesel
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17026	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 7/22/2011
Subject: Re: EMC Model 60 Boxcab Gas Electric Switcher, Lehigh Valley Prototy
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17027	From: Jay	Date: 7/22/2011
Subject: Re: EMC Model 60 Boxcab Gas Electric Switcher, Lehigh Valley Prototy
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17028	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 7/22/2011
Subject: Re: EMC Model 60 Boxcab Gas Electric Switcher, Lehigh Valley Prototy
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17029	From: jbark76	Date: 7/22/2011
Subject: Re: Need help?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17030	From: Michael Bauers	Date: 7/22/2011
Subject: Snagged a Paul Moore kit.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17031	From: ragc4x5x7	Date: 7/22/2011
Subject: Re: Snagged a Paul Moore kit.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17032	From: Michael Bauers	Date: 7/22/2011
Subject: Re: Snagged a Paul Moore kit.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17033	From: ragc4x5x7	Date: 7/22/2011
Subject: Re: Snagged a Paul Moore kit.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17034	From: Michael Bauers	Date: 7/22/2011
Subject: Re: Snagged a Paul Moore kit.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17035	From: corlissbs@aol.com	Date: 7/22/2011
Subject: Re: Snagged a Paul Moore kit.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17036	From: Michael Bauers	Date: 7/22/2011
Subject: Re: Snagged a Paul Moore kit.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17037	From: Jay Wanczyk	Date: 7/22/2011
Subject: Photo Re: [vintageHO] Snagged a Paul Moore kit.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17038	From: Michael Bauers	Date: 7/22/2011
Subject: Re: Photo Re: [vintageHO] Snagged a Paul Moore kit. [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17039	From: Railroad Modeler	Date: 7/22/2011
Subject: Re: Snagged a Paul Moore kit.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17040	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 7/23/2011
Subject: Re: Snagged a Paul Moore kit.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17041	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 7/23/2011
Subject: Re: Mantua Worm Gear Cover Needed
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17043	From: Railroad Modeler	Date: 7/23/2011
Subject: Re: Snagged a Paul Moore kit.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17044	From: Railroad Modeler	Date: 7/23/2011
Subject: Re: Spam, spam, spam, eggs, spam, and cheese, with spam. WAS: (unkn
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17045	From: ipwjr	Date: 7/23/2011
Subject: Re: Need help?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17046	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 7/23/2011
Subject: Re: Need help?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17047	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 7/23/2011
Subject: Re: Need help?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17048	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 7/23/2011
Subject: Re: Snagged a Paul Moore kit.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17049	From: Wally Weart	Date: 7/23/2011
Subject: Paul Moore
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17050	From: nvrr49	Date: 7/24/2011
Subject: Passenger car roof details
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17051	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 7/24/2011
Subject: Re: Passenger car roof details
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17052	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 7/24/2011
Subject: Chester Pssenger Detail
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17053	From: tieplatejunction	Date: 7/24/2011
Subject: Mantua 2-6-2, tender pickup wheels arcing....
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17054	From: tieplatejunction	Date: 7/24/2011
Subject: ...regarding Mantua 2-6-2, tender pickup wheels arcing....
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17055	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 7/24/2011
Subject: Re: Mantua 2-6-2, tender pickup wheels arcing....
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17056	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 7/24/2011
Subject: Re: Passenger car roof details
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17057	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 7/24/2011
Subject: Re: Passenger car roof details
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17058	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 7/24/2011
Subject: Re: Chester Pssenger Detail [3 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17059	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 7/24/2011
Subject: Re: Passenger car roof details
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17060	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 7/24/2011
Subject: Re: Passenger car roof details
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17061	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 7/24/2011
Subject: Re: Passenger car roof details
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17062	From: Gary Woodard	Date: 7/24/2011
Subject: Re: Mantua 2-6-2, tender pickup wheels arcing....
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17063	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 7/24/2011
Subject: Re: Passenger car roof details
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17064	From: Robert Colliflower	Date: 7/25/2011
Subject: Re: Mantua 2-6-2, tender pickup wheels arcing....
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17065	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 7/25/2011
Subject: Re: Mantua 2-6-2, tender pickup wheels arcing....
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17066	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 7/25/2011
Subject: Re: Mantua 2-6-2, tender pickup wheels arcing....
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17067	From: Nelson	Date: 7/25/2011
Subject: Re: Chester Pssenger Detail
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17068	From: erieberk	Date: 7/25/2011
Subject: Re: Chester Passenger Detail
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17069	From: erieberk	Date: 7/25/2011
Subject: Re: Chester Pssenger Detail
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17070	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 7/25/2011
Subject: Re: Chester Passenger Detail
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17071	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 7/25/2011
Subject: Re: Chester Passenger Detail
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17072	From: Nelson	Date: 7/25/2011
Subject: Re: Chester Passenger Detail
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17073	From: Donald R. Staton	Date: 7/25/2011
Subject: Re: Mantua 2-6-2, tender pickup wheels arcing....
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17074	From: Donald R. Staton	Date: 7/25/2011
Subject: Re: ...regarding Mantua 2-6-2, tender pickup wheels arcing....
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17075	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 7/25/2011
Subject: Paul Moore kit is here!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17076	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 7/25/2011
Subject: Re: Paul Moore kit is here!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17077	From: Jay	Date: 7/26/2011
Subject: Re: Paul Moore kit is here!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17078	From: Jay	Date: 7/26/2011
Subject: Bill Schopp & RMC Staff's words on the Athearn RBD Pacific
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17079	From: Michael Bauers	Date: 7/26/2011
Subject: Re: Paul Moore kit is here!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17080	From: Nelson	Date: 7/27/2011
Subject: Re: Bill Schopp & RMC Staff's words on the Athearn RBD Pacific
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17081	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 7/27/2011
Subject: Re: Bill Schopp & RMC Staff's words on the Athearn RBD Pacific
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17082	From: ablecynic	Date: 7/28/2011
Subject: Re: Bill Schopp & RMC Staff's words on the Athearn RBD Pacific
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17083	From: Jay	Date: 7/28/2011
Subject: Re: Bill Schopp & RMC Staff's words on the Athearn RBD Pacific
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17084	From: Jay	Date: 7/28/2011
Subject: Lionel's Own Belt Drive Patent and Drawings
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17085	From: Jay	Date: 7/28/2011
Subject: R. M. Smith's RBD Patent & Drawings (Licensed by Athearn?)
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17086	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 7/28/2011
Subject: Re: Bill Schopp & RMC Staff's words on the Athearn RBD Pacific
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17087	From: Jay	Date: 7/28/2011
Subject: Re: Bill Schopp & RMC Staff's words on the Athearn RBD Pacific
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17088	From: rcjge	Date: 7/28/2011
Subject: Re: Bill Schopp & RMC Staff's words on the Athearn RBD Pacific
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17089	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 7/28/2011
Subject: Re: Lionel's Own Belt Drive Patent and Drawings
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17090	From: Nelson	Date: 7/28/2011
Subject: Re: Bill Schopp & RMC Staff's words on the Athearn RBD Pacific
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17091	From: Jay	Date: 7/29/2011
Subject: Re: Bill Schopp & RMC Staff's words on the Athearn RBD Pacific
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17092	From: rcjge	Date: 7/29/2011
Subject: Stubbby parts?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17093	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 7/29/2011
Subject: Re: Bill Schopp & RMC Staff's words on the Athearn RBD Pacific
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17094	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 7/29/2011
Subject: Re: Bill Schopp & RMC Staff's words on the Athearn RBD Pacific
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17095	From: ablecynic	Date: 7/29/2011
Subject: Re: Bill Schopp & RMC Staff's words on the Athearn RBD Pacific
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17096	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 7/29/2011
Subject: Re: Bill Schopp & RMC Staff's words on the Athearn RBD Pacific
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17097	From: Glenn	Date: 7/29/2011
Subject: Re: Bill Schopp & RMC Staff's words on the Athearn RBD Pacific
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17098	From: Nelson	Date: 7/29/2011
Subject: Re: Bill Schopp & RMC Staff's words on the Athearn RBD Pacific
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17099	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 7/29/2011
Subject: Re: Stubbby parts?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17100	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 7/29/2011
Subject: Re: Stubbby parts?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17101	From: cwrailman	Date: 7/29/2011
Subject: Walthers passenger car kits for sale
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17102	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 7/29/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers passenger car kits for sale
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17103	From: ablecynic	Date: 7/30/2011
Subject: More on the Athearn RBD Pacific
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17104	From: Jay Wanczyk	Date: 7/30/2011
Subject: Erie 0-8-8-0 L-1 "Angus Type'" Camelback Mallet
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17105	From: ablecynic	Date: 7/30/2011
Subject: Re: Bill Schopp & RMC Staff's words on the Athearn RBD Pacific
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17106	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 7/30/2011
Subject: Re: Erie 0-8-8-0 L-1 "Angus Type'" Camelback Mallet [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17107	From: cwrailman	Date: 7/30/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers passenger car kits for sale
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17108	From: dasha	Date: 7/30/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers passenger car kits for sale
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17109	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 7/30/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers passenger car kits for sale
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17111	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 7/31/2011
Subject: Re: Erie 0-8-8-0 L-1 "Angus Type'" Camelback Mallet [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17112	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 7/31/2011
Subject: lost two bids
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17113	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 7/31/2011
Subject: Re: lost two bids
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17114	From: Rick Jones	Date: 7/31/2011
Subject: Re: lost two bids [2 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17115	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 7/31/2011
Subject: Re: lost two bids
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17116	From: rcjge	Date: 7/31/2011
Subject: Pics in 4 sale Gareth
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17117	From: Jay	Date: 8/1/2011
Subject: Re: Erie 0-8-8-0 L-1 "Angus Type'" Camelback Mallet [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17118	From: Jay	Date: 8/1/2011
Subject: Re: lost two bids
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17119	From: Jay	Date: 8/1/2011
Subject: Varney Lil' Raskal "Wreck-proof Train"
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17120	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 8/1/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Lil' Raskal "Wreck-proof Train"
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17121	From: cwrailman	Date: 8/1/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers passenger car kits for sale
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17122	From: rcjge	Date: 8/1/2011
Subject: Um Jim or one of you fella's-Weird
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17123	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 8/1/2011
Subject: Re: Um Jim or one of you fella's-Weird
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17124	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 8/1/2011
Subject: Re: Um Jim or one of you fella's-Weird
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17125	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 8/1/2011
Subject: Re: Um Jim or one of you fella's-Weird
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17126	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 8/1/2011
Subject: Re: Um Jim or one of you fella's-Weird
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17127	From: Andrew Emmerson	Date: 8/1/2011
Subject: Re: Um Jim or one of you fella's-Weird
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17128	From: Jay	Date: 8/1/2011
Subject: Re: Um Jim or one of you fella's-Weird
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17129	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 8/1/2011
Subject: Re: Um Jim or one of you fella's-Weird
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17130	From: Paul Stevenson	Date: 8/1/2011
Subject: Re: {Disarmed} Re: [vintageHO] Um Jim or one of you fella's-Weird
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17131	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 8/1/2011
Subject: Re: Um Jim or one of you fella's-Weird
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17132	From: Denny Anspach	Date: 8/2/2011
Subject: Re: Um Jim or one of you fella's-Weird
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17133	From: Jay	Date: 8/2/2011
Subject: Re: Um Jim or one of you fella's-Weird
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17134	From: Denny Anspach	Date: 8/3/2011
Subject: Graham-Fairish King George V: Was- Um Jim or one of you fella's-Weir
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17135	From: John H	Date: 8/3/2011
Subject: Re: Graham-Fairish King George V: Was- Um Jim or one of you fella's-
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17136	From: Jay	Date: 8/3/2011
Subject: Re: Graham-Fairish King George V: Was- Um Jim or one of you fella's-
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17137	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 8/3/2011
Subject: Re: Graham-Fairish King George V: Was- Um Jim or one of you fella's-
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17138	From: nvrr49	Date: 8/3/2011
Subject: Ohio Seamless Tube Gon COLOR
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17139	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 8/3/2011
Subject: Re: Ohio Seamless Tube Gon COLOR
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17140	From: Jay	Date: 8/4/2011
Subject: Re: Graham-Fairish King George V: Was- Um Jim or one of you fella's-
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17141	From: Denny Anspach	Date: 8/5/2011
Subject: Re: Graham-Fairish King George V: Was- Um Jim or one of you fella's-
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17142	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 8/5/2011
Subject: Re: Graham-Fairish King George V: Was- Um Jim or one of you fella's-
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17143	From: hooligan	Date: 8/5/2011
Subject: Re: Graham-Fairish King George V: Was- Um Jim or one of you fella's-
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17144	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 8/7/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers passenger car kits for sale
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17145	From: Brandan	Date: 8/8/2011
Subject: Missing instructions
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17146	From: Denny Anspach	Date: 8/8/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers passenger car kits for sale
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17147	From: cwrailman	Date: 8/8/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers passenger car kits for sale
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17148	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 8/8/2011
Subject: Unknown Make Japanese Built Metal and Plastic Cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17149	From: Jay	Date: 8/9/2011
Subject: Re: Unknown Make Japanese Built Metal and Plastic Cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17150	From: Jay	Date: 8/9/2011
Subject: Re: Unknown Make Japanese Built Metal and Plastic Cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17151	From: Nelson	Date: 8/9/2011
Subject: O.K. Streamliners
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17152	From: Jay	Date: 8/9/2011
Subject: Re: O.K. Streamliners
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17153	From: John H	Date: 8/9/2011
Subject: Re: O.K. Streamliners
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17154	From: Jay	Date: 8/9/2011
Subject: Re: O.K. Streamliners has a company museum, too.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17155	From: Rich C	Date: 8/9/2011
Subject: Re: O.K. Streamliners
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17156	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 8/9/2011
Subject: My New Project
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17157	From: Nelson	Date: 8/9/2011
Subject: Re: O.K. Streamliners
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17158	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 8/9/2011
Subject: Re: O.K. Streamliners
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17159	From: Wobbly913	Date: 8/9/2011
Subject: Re: O.K. Streamliners
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17160	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 8/10/2011
Subject: Herkimer OK Streamliners History.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17161	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 8/11/2011
Subject: identify
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17162	From: Jay	Date: 8/11/2011
Subject: Re: identify
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17163	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 8/11/2011
Subject: Re: identify
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17164	From: Jay	Date: 8/11/2011
Subject: Re: identify
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17165	From: cwrailman	Date: 8/11/2011
Subject: Westwood Passenger Cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17166	From: Jay	Date: 8/12/2011
Subject: Re: Westwood Passenger Cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17167	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 8/12/2011
Subject: Re: Westwood Passenger Cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17168	From: Jay	Date: 8/12/2011
Subject: Re: Richard White's Red Ball car photo album
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17169	From: cwrailman	Date: 8/12/2011
Subject: Re: Richard White's Red Ball car photo album
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17170	From: Nelson	Date: 8/12/2011
Subject: Re: identify
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17171	From: Wally	Date: 8/12/2011
Subject: Motive Power Model Hobbies
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17172	From: Jay	Date: 8/12/2011
Subject: Re: Motive Power Model Hobbies
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17173	From: RalphB	Date: 8/13/2011
Subject: Re: Motive Power Model Hobbies
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17174	From: ocalicreek	Date: 8/13/2011
Subject: Re: My New Project
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17175	From: ocalicreek	Date: 8/13/2011
Subject: Re: Westwood Passenger Cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17176	From: cwrailman	Date: 8/13/2011
Subject: Re: Westwood Passenger Cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17177	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 8/13/2011
Subject: Re: My New Project
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17178	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 8/13/2011
Subject: Re: Unknown Make Japanese Built Metal and Plastic Cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17179	From: Larry	Date: 8/14/2011
Subject: Re: O.K. Streamliners
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17180	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 8/14/2011
Subject: Re: My New Project
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17181	From: tom leen	Date: 8/14/2011
Subject: Re: My New Project
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17182	From: Richard White	Date: 8/14/2011
Subject: Re: Richard White's Red Ball car photo album
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17183	From: Richard White	Date: 8/14/2011
Subject: Re: Richard White's Red Ball car photo album
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17184	From: cwrailman	Date: 8/15/2011
Subject: Re: Richard White's Red Ball car photo album
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17185	From: Richard White	Date: 8/15/2011
Subject: Re: Richard White's Red Ball car photo album
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17186	From: rcjge	Date: 8/15/2011
Subject: Vintage psgr cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17187	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 8/15/2011
Subject: Re: Drill press [was Richard White's Red Ball car photo album]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17188	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 8/16/2011
Subject: Fwd: Another Varney Tender
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17189	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 8/16/2011
Subject: Japanese Yard Switcher
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17190	From: Jay	Date: 8/16/2011
Subject: Re: Fwd: Another Varney Tender
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17191	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 8/16/2011
Subject: Re: Japanese Yard Switcher [4 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17192	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 8/16/2011
Subject: Re: Fwd: Another Varney Tender [2 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17193	From: Richard White	Date: 8/16/2011
Subject: Re: Drill press [was Richard White's Red Ball car photo album]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17194	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 8/16/2011
Subject: Re: Drill press [was Richard White's Red Ball car photo album]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17195	From: rcjge	Date: 8/16/2011
Subject: Re: Vintage psgr cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17196	From: Richard White	Date: 8/16/2011
Subject: Re: Drill press [was Richard White's Red Ball car photo album]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17197	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 8/16/2011
Subject: Re: Drill press [was Richard White's Red Ball car photo album]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17198	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 8/16/2011
Subject: Re: Japanese Yard Switcher [4 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17199	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 8/16/2011
Subject: Re: Vintage psgr cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17200	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 8/16/2011
Subject: Re: Vintage psgr cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17201	From: Jay	Date: 8/17/2011
Subject: Re: Vintage Walthers Passenger cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17202	From: Jay	Date: 8/17/2011
Subject: Need 1937 Walthers HO Catalog or copy!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17203	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 8/17/2011
Subject: Re: Need 1937 Walthers HO Catalog or copy!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17204	From: Denny Anspach	Date: 8/17/2011
Subject: Re: Japanese Yard Switcher [4 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17205	From: rcjge	Date: 8/17/2011
Subject: Re: Vintage psgr cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17207	From: Richard White	Date: 8/17/2011
Subject: Re: Drill press [was Richard White's Red Ball car photo album]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17208	From: Jay	Date: 8/17/2011
Subject: Re: Unknown Make Japanese Built Metal and Plastic Cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17209	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 8/17/2011
Subject: Re: Drill press [was Richard White's Red Ball car photo album]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17210	From: cwrailman	Date: 8/17/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers passenger car kits for sale
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17211	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 8/17/2011
Subject: Re: Vintage psgr cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17212	From: Jay	Date: 8/18/2011
Subject: Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17213	From: Jay	Date: 8/18/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17214	From: Richard White	Date: 8/18/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17215	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 8/18/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17216	From: rcjge	Date: 8/18/2011
Subject: Re: Vintage psgr cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17217	From: Glenn	Date: 8/18/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17218	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 8/18/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17219	From: Jay Wanczyk	Date: 8/18/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17220	From: rcjge	Date: 8/18/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17221	From: Glenn	Date: 8/18/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17222	From: Glenn	Date: 8/18/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17223	From: John H	Date: 8/18/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17224	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 8/18/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17225	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 8/18/2011
Subject: I didn't know about these Paul Moore's.......
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17226	From: cwrailman	Date: 8/18/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17227	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 8/19/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17228	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 8/19/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17229	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 8/19/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17230	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 8/19/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17231	From: Model RailRoad	Date: 8/19/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17232	From: Denny Anspach	Date: 8/19/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17233	From: corv9	Date: 8/19/2011
Subject: Re: I didn't know about these Paul Moore's.......
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17234	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 8/19/2011
Subject: Varney Slope Back Tender
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17235	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 8/19/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17236	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 8/19/2011
Subject: Varney Slope Back tenders
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17237	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 8/19/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17238	From: rcjge	Date: 8/20/2011
Subject: Running Older Olympia Brass
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17239	From: cwrailman	Date: 8/20/2011
Subject: Re: Running Older Olympia Brass
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17240	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 8/20/2011
Subject: Re: Running Older Olympia Brass
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17241	From: cwrailman	Date: 8/20/2011
Subject: Re: Running Older Olympia Brass
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17242	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 8/20/2011
Subject: Re: Running Older Olympia Brass
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17243	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 8/20/2011
Subject: Re: I didn't know about these Paul Moore's.......
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17244	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 8/20/2011
Subject: Re: Running Older Olympia Brass
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17246	From: rcjge	Date: 8/20/2011
Subject: Re: Running Older Olympia Brass
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17247	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 8/20/2011
Subject: Re: Running Older Olympia Brass
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17248	From: corv9	Date: 8/21/2011
Subject: Exacta/ Paul Moore's.......
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17249	From: Jay	Date: 8/21/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Slope Back tenders
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17250	From: Jay	Date: 8/21/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology; Alco HH powering
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17251	From: Jay	Date: 8/21/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Passenger Car Discussion - Sperry Car & Walthers Awards
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17252	From: Jay	Date: 8/21/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17253	From: Jay	Date: 8/21/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17254	From: rcjge	Date: 8/21/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology; Alco HH powering
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17255	From: Jay	Date: 8/21/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17256	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 8/21/2011
Subject: Little Japanese switcher
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17257	From: Jay	Date: 8/21/2011
Subject: Re: Alco HH powering
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17258	From: Jay	Date: 8/21/2011
Subject: Re: Little Japanese switcher
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17259	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 8/21/2011
Subject: Re: Alco HH powering
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17260	From: Glenn	Date: 8/21/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Passenger Car Discussion - Sperry Car & Walthers Awards
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17261	From: Rick Jones	Date: 8/21/2011
Subject: Re: Little Japanese switcher [3 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17262	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 8/21/2011
Subject: Re: Alco HH powering
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17263	From: rcjge	Date: 8/22/2011
Subject: Walthers HH thread WAS Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & Chronolog
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17264	From: Jay	Date: 8/22/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Passenger Car/THS Sperry Car Parts Ad Located
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17265	From: Jay	Date: 8/22/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers HH thread WAS Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & Chron
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17266	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 8/22/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers HH thread WAS Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & Chron
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17267	From: cwrailman	Date: 8/22/2011
Subject: Re: Little Japanese switcher
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17268	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 8/23/2011
Subject: Heresy
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17269	From: nvrr49	Date: 8/24/2011
Subject: Re: Heresy
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17270	From: rcjge	Date: 8/24/2011
Subject: Re: Heresy
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17271	From: RalphB	Date: 8/24/2011
Subject: Re: Heresy
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17272	From: roger	Date: 8/24/2011
Subject: Re: Heresy
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17273	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 8/24/2011
Subject: Re: Heresy
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17274	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 8/24/2011
Subject: Re: Heresy
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17275	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 8/24/2011
Subject: Re: Heresy
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17276	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 8/24/2011
Subject: Re: Heresy
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17277	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 8/25/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Lil' Raskal "Wreck-proof Train"
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17278	From: Jay	Date: 8/26/2011
Subject: Varney Lil' Raskal "Wreck-proof Train"
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17279	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 8/26/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Lil' Raskal "Wreck-proof Train"
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17280	From: rcjge	Date: 8/26/2011
Subject: Lionel HO Erie Centercab Manufactured???
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17281	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 8/27/2011
Subject: Re: Lionel HO Erie Centercab Manufactured???
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17282	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 8/27/2011
Subject: Re: Lionel HO Erie Centercab Manufactured???
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17283	From: topstokes	Date: 8/27/2011
Subject: Varney Consolodation Kit #2721
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17284	From: rcjge	Date: 8/30/2011
Subject: Lionel HO Erie Centercab picture sought
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17285	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 8/31/2011
Subject: Lionel Center Cab
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17286	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 8/31/2011
Subject: Re: Lionel Center Cab [3 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17287	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 8/31/2011
Subject: Lionel Center Cab
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17288	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 8/31/2011
Subject: Lionel Center Cab
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17289	From: mslater@wi.rr.com	Date: 8/31/2011
Subject: Lionel HO Centercab
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17290	From: rcjge	Date: 8/31/2011
Subject: Re: Lionel Center Cab
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17291	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 8/31/2011
Subject: Re: Lionel Center Cab
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17292	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 8/31/2011
Subject: Re: Lionel Center Cab
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17293	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 8/31/2011
Subject: Re: Lionel Center Cab
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17294	From: rcjge	Date: 9/1/2011
Subject: Re: Lionel Center Cab
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17295	From: Richard White	Date: 9/9/2011
Subject: old Walthers passenger kits roof ducts
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17296	From: Charles	Date: 9/9/2011
Subject: Re: old Walthers passenger kits roof ducts
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17297	From: Glenn	Date: 9/9/2011
Subject: Re: old Walthers passenger kits roof ducts
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17298	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 9/9/2011
Subject: Re: old Walthers passenger kits roof ducts
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17299	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 9/9/2011
Subject: Re: old Walthers passenger kits roof ducts
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17300	From: Charles	Date: 9/9/2011
Subject: Re: old Walthers passenger kits roof ducts
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17301	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 9/9/2011
Subject: Re: old Walthers passenger kits roof ducts
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17302	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 9/9/2011
Subject: Re: old Walthers passenger kits roof ducts
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17303	From: Denny Anspach	Date: 9/10/2011
Subject: Re: old Walthers passenger kits roof ducts
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17304	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 9/10/2011
Subject: Re: old Walthers passenger kits roof ducts
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17305	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 9/11/2011
Subject: Re: old Walthers passenger kits roof ducts
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17306	From: rcjge	Date: 9/11/2011
Subject: Anyone talked to Jay or Mike (Bauers)...?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17307	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 9/11/2011
Subject: Re: Anyone talked to Jay or Mike (Bauers)...?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17308	From: Mike	Date: 9/11/2011
Subject: Re: Anyone talked to Jay or Mike (Bauers)...?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17309	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 9/11/2011
Subject: internet down.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17310	From: rcjge	Date: 9/12/2011
Subject: Suydam Building Kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17311	From: Glenn	Date: 9/12/2011
Subject: Re: Suydam Building Kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17312	From: Michael Bauers	Date: 9/13/2011
Subject: Re: Suydam Building Kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17313	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 9/13/2011
Subject: Re: Suydam Building Kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17314	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 9/13/2011
Subject: Re: Suydam Building Kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17315	From: Wally Weart	Date: 9/14/2011
Subject: Re: Suydam Building Kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17316	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 9/14/2011
Subject: Re: Suydam Building Kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17317	From: 23weldon	Date: 9/14/2011
Subject: Re: Suydam Building Kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17318	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 9/14/2011
Subject: Re: Suydam Building Kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17319	From: Wally Weart	Date: 9/15/2011
Subject: Re: Suydam Building Kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17320	From: Wally Weart	Date: 9/15/2011
Subject: Re: Suydam Building Kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17321	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 9/15/2011
Subject: Re: Suydam Building Kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17322	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 9/15/2011
Subject: Re: Suydam Building Kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17323	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 9/15/2011
Subject: Sampson
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17324	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 9/15/2011
Subject: Re: Sampson [5 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17325	From: Rick Jones	Date: 9/15/2011
Subject: Re: Suydam Building Kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17326	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 9/15/2011
Subject: Re: Suydam Building Kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17327	From: Rick Jones	Date: 9/15/2011
Subject: Re: Suydam Building Kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17328	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 9/15/2011
Subject: Re: Suydam Building Kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17329	From: tomvanhoy	Date: 9/16/2011
Subject: soldering
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17330	From: tom bell	Date: 9/16/2011
Subject: Re: soldering
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17331	From: Wally Weart	Date: 9/16/2011
Subject: Re: Suydam Building Kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17332	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 9/16/2011
Subject: Re: Suydam Building Kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17333	From: trainm7	Date: 9/16/2011
Subject: painting Cary diesel shells
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17334	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 9/16/2011
Subject: Sampson Silver Bullet
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17335	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 9/16/2011
Subject: Re: painting Cary diesel shells
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17336	From: Rick Jones	Date: 9/16/2011
Subject: Re: Suydam Building Kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17337	From: Model RailRoad	Date: 9/17/2011
Subject: Re: Suydam Building Kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17338	From: Mike	Date: 9/17/2011
Subject: Re: soldering
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17339	From: trainm7	Date: 9/18/2011
Subject: Re: painting Cary diesel shells
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17340	From: Alfred Galli	Date: 9/18/2011
Subject: Vintage Model Railroader Magazines
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17341	From: Rick Jones	Date: 9/18/2011
Subject: Re: painting Cary diesel shells
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17342	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 9/18/2011
Subject: Re: painting Cary diesel shells
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17343	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 9/18/2011
Subject: New Additons to the Roster
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17344	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 9/18/2011
Subject: Re: New Additons to the Roster
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17345	From: joegideon	Date: 9/18/2011
Subject: Re: I need a part.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17347	From: joegideon	Date: 9/18/2011
Subject: Varney and Others...
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17348	From: rcjge	Date: 9/19/2011
Subject: Varney Streamlined Steamer Shell what Chassis?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17349	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 9/19/2011
Subject: Re: I need a part.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17350	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 9/19/2011
Subject: Re: I need a part.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17351	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 9/19/2011
Subject: Re: I need a part.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17352	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 9/19/2011
Subject: Re: I need a part.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17353	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 9/19/2011
Subject: Re: I need a part.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17354	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 9/19/2011
Subject: Re: I need a part.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17355	From: Nelson	Date: 9/19/2011
Subject: Re: painting Cary diesel shells
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17356	From: erieberk	Date: 9/19/2011
Subject: Re: I need a part.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17357	From: rcjge	Date: 9/20/2011
Subject: Re: I need a part.
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17358	From: trainm7	Date: 9/21/2011
Subject: Re: painting Cary diesel shells
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17359	From: tieplatejunction	Date: 9/24/2011
Subject: 1961 Athearn 4-6-2 Heavy Pacidic...
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17360	From: Donald R. Staton	Date: 9/24/2011
Subject: Re: 1961 Athearn 4-6-2 Heavy Pacidic...
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17361	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 9/24/2011
Subject: Sampson Silver Bullet
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17362	From: erieberk	Date: 9/24/2011
Subject: Re: Sampson Silver Bullet
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17363	From: corv9	Date: 9/24/2011
Subject: Re: Sampson Silver Bullet
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17364	From: tieplatejunction	Date: 9/25/2011
Subject: Re: 1961 Athearn 4-6-2 Heavy Pacidic...
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17365	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/25/2011
Subject: Re: Sampson Silver Bullet
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17366	From: Glenn	Date: 9/25/2011
Subject: Re: Sampson Silver Bullet
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17367	From: rcjge	Date: 9/26/2011
Subject: Re: Sampson Silver Bullet
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17368	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 9/26/2011
Subject: Re: 1961 Athearn 4-6-2 Heavy Pacidic...
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17369	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 9/26/2011
Subject: Re: 1961 Athearn 4-6-2 Heavy Pacidic...
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17370	From: Glenn	Date: 9/26/2011
Subject: Re: 1961 Athearn 4-6-2 Heavy Pacidic...
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17371	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 9/26/2011
Subject: Re: 1961 Athearn 4-6-2 Heavy Pacidic...
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17372	From: corlissbs@aol.com	Date: 9/26/2011
Subject: Re: 1961 Athearn 4-6-2 Heavy Pacidic...
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17373	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 9/26/2011
Subject: Re: 1961 Athearn 4-6-2 Heavy Pacidic...
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17374	From: MRLENGAL2U@aol.com	Date: 9/27/2011
Subject: Mantua Booster 0 4 0 frame and steam chest... in plastic !
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17375	From: Garry Spear	Date: 9/27/2011
Subject: Re: Mantua Booster 0 4 0 frame and steam chest... in plastic !
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17376	From: John H	Date: 9/27/2011
Subject: Re: Mantua Booster 0 4 0 frame and steam chest... in plastic !
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17377	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 9/27/2011
Subject: Varney B&O 4-6-0 vs. Casey Jones 4-6-0
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17378	From: tieplatejunction	Date: 9/28/2011
Subject: Re: Mantua Booster 0 4 0 frame and steam chest... in plastic !
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17379	From: MRLENGAL2U@aol.com	Date: 9/28/2011
Subject: Re: Mantua Booster 0 4 0 frame and steam chest... in plastic !
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17380	From: jbark76	Date: 9/28/2011
Subject: Re: Varney B&O 4-6-0 vs. Casey Jones 4-6-0
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17381	From: John Hagen	Date: 9/28/2011
Subject: Re: Varney B&O 4-6-0 vs. Casey Jones 4-6-0
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17382	From: ablecynic	Date: 9/29/2011
Subject: Re: Varney B&O 4-6-0 vs. Casey Jones 4-6-0
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17383	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 9/30/2011
Subject: Sampson Silver Bullet
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17384	From: James Bartelt	Date: 10/1/2011
Subject: Unusual Vintage HO Exploding boxcar on ebay
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17385	From: william witte	Date: 10/1/2011
Subject: Re: Unusual Vintage HO Exploding boxcar on ebay
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17386	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 10/1/2011
Subject: Re: Unusual Vintage HO Exploding boxcar on ebay
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17387	From: DOM ST.JOHN	Date: 10/1/2011
Subject: Re: Unusual Vintage HO Exploding boxcar on ebay
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17388	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 10/2/2011
Subject: Re: Unusual Vintage HO Exploding boxcar on ebay
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17389	From: Charles	Date: 10/2/2011
Subject: Re: Unusual Vintage HO Exploding boxcar on ebay
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17390	From: rcjge	Date: 10/3/2011
Subject: Sure as He-double hockey sticks! ;)
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17391	From: tieplatejunction	Date: 10/4/2011
Subject: Re: Sure as He-double hockey sticks! ;)
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17392	From: ablecynic	Date: 10/4/2011
Subject: Re: Sure as He-double hockey sticks! ;)
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17393	From: Richard	Date: 10/4/2011
Subject: Re: Sure as He-double hockey sticks! ;)
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17394	From: David J. Starr	Date: 10/4/2011
Subject: Re: Sure as He-double hockey sticks! ;)
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17395	From: Rick Steele	Date: 10/4/2011
Subject: Re: Sure as He-double hockey sticks! ;)
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17396	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 10/4/2011
Subject: Re: Sure as He-double hockey sticks! ;)
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17397	From: DOM ST.JOHN	Date: 10/4/2011
Subject: Re: Sure as He-double hockey sticks! ;)
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17398	From: Dale Smith	Date: 10/4/2011
Subject: Re: Sure as He-double hockey sticks! ;)
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17399	From: MRLENGAL2U@aol.com	Date: 10/4/2011
Subject: Re: Sure as He-double hockey sticks! ;)
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17400	From: ablecynic	Date: 10/5/2011
Subject: Re: Sure as He-double hockey sticks! ;)
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17401	From: al45390	Date: 10/5/2011
Subject: Re: Sure as He-double hockey sticks! ;)
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17402	From: Richard	Date: 10/5/2011
Subject: Early Atearn 4-6-2 Pacific
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17403	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 10/5/2011
Subject: Fwd: Sampson Progress
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17404	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 10/5/2011
Subject: Re: Fwd: Sampson Progress [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17405	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 10/5/2011
Subject: Re: Fwd: Sampson Progress
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17406	From: rcjge	Date: 10/5/2011
Subject: Does anyone know what the drivers on a John English
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17407	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 10/5/2011
Subject: Re: Fwd: Sampson Progress
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17408	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 10/5/2011
Subject: Re: Does anyone know what the drivers on a John English
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17409	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 10/5/2011
Subject: Re: Does anyone know what the drivers on a John English
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17410	From: Glenn	Date: 10/5/2011
Subject: Re: Does anyone know what the drivers on a John English
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17411	From: MRLENGAL2U@aol.com	Date: 10/5/2011
Subject: Re: Does anyone know what the drivers on a John English
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17412	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 10/5/2011
Subject: Re: Does anyone know what the drivers on a John English
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17413	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 10/5/2011
Subject: Re: Does anyone know what the drivers on a John English
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17414	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 10/5/2011
Subject: Re: Does anyone know what the drivers on a John English
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17415	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 10/5/2011
Subject: Re: Does anyone know what the drivers on a John English
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17416	From: dennyanspach	Date: 10/6/2011
Subject: Re: Early Atearn 4-6-2 Pacific
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17417	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 10/6/2011
Subject: Re: Early Atearn 4-6-2 Pacific
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17418	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 10/6/2011
Subject: I may have mis-read the thread....
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17419	From: Glenn	Date: 10/6/2011
Subject: Re: Early Atearn 4-6-2 Pacific
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17420	From: Glenn	Date: 10/6/2011
Subject: thinning collection
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17421	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 10/6/2011
Subject: Varney Super Berkshire
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17422	From: ckinzer@att.net	Date: 10/6/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Super Berkshire
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17423	From: John H	Date: 10/6/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Super Berkshire
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17424	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 10/7/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Super Berkshire
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17425	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 10/7/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Super Berkshire
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17426	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 10/7/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Super Berkshire
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17427	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 10/7/2011
Subject: Super 4-8-4 Northern
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17428	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 10/7/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Super Berkshire
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17429	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 10/7/2011
Subject: Super Berk ?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17430	From: Nelson	Date: 10/7/2011
Subject: Re: Early Atearn 4-6-2 Pacific
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17431	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 10/7/2011
Subject: Re: Early Atearn 4-6-2 Pacific
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17432	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 10/7/2011
Subject: Mistake
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17433	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 10/7/2011
Subject: Mistake No Super Berk
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17434	From: John Webster	Date: 10/8/2011
Subject: Re: Does anyone know what the drivers on a John English
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17435	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 10/8/2011
Subject: Re: Does anyone know what the drivers on a John English
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17436	From: al45390	Date: 10/8/2011
Subject: Re: Does anyone know what the drivers on a John English
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17437	From: rcjge	Date: 10/8/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Super Berkshire
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17438	From: John Webster	Date: 10/9/2011
Subject: Re: Does anyone know what the drivers on a John English
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17439	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 10/9/2011
Subject: Re: Does anyone know what the drivers on a John English
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17440	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 10/10/2011
Subject: Re: Sampson Silver Bullet
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17441	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 10/10/2011
Subject: Fwd: Sampson Silver Bullet
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17442	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 10/10/2011
Subject: Re: Fwd: Sampson Silver Bullet [5 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17443	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 10/10/2011
Subject: modification
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17444	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 10/10/2011
Subject: Re: modification
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17445	From: tracey quon	Date: 10/10/2011
Subject: Re: Fwd: Sampson Silver Bullet [5 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17446	From: Jim Waterman	Date: 10/11/2011
Subject: Re: modification
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17447	From: Jim Waterman	Date: 10/11/2011
Subject: Re: modification
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17448	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 10/11/2011
Subject: Sampson Silver Bullet
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17449	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 10/11/2011
Subject: Varney Smokey Joe Locomotive - 78 RPM Record?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17450	From: estabrook@aol.com	Date: 10/11/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Smokey Joe Locomotive - 78 RPM Record?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17451	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 10/11/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Smokey Joe Locomotive - 78 RPM Record?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17452	From: Glenn	Date: 10/11/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Smokey Joe Locomotive - 78 RPM Record?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17453	From: Glenn	Date: 10/11/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Smokey Joe Locomotive - 78 RPM Record?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17454	From: Mike Sloane	Date: 10/12/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Smokey Joe Locomotive - 78 RPM Record?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17455	From: oljoe	Date: 10/12/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Smokey Joe Locomotive - 78 RPM Record?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17456	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 10/12/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Super Berkshire
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17457	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 10/12/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Smokey Joe Locomotive - 78 RPM Record?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17458	From: rcjge	Date: 10/12/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Super Berkshire
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17459	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 10/12/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Super Berkshire
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17460	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 10/12/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Super Berkshire
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17461	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 10/12/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Super Berkshire
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17462	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 10/12/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Super Berkshire
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17463	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 10/12/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Super Berkshire
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17464	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 10/12/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Super Berkshire
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17465	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 10/12/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Super Berkshire
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17466	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 10/12/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Super Berkshire
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17467	From: oljoe	Date: 10/12/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Smokey Joe Locomotive - 78 RPM Record?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17468	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 10/12/2011
Subject: : Sampson Success
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17469	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 10/12/2011
Subject: Re: : Sampson Success [5 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17470	From: Dr. Robert Driggers	Date: 10/12/2011
Subject: Athearn 0-6-0
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17471	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 10/12/2011
Subject: Athearn 0-6-0 drive gear
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17472	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 10/12/2011
Subject: Re: : Sampson Success
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17473	From: Dr. Robert Driggers	Date: 10/12/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 0-6-0 drive gear
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17474	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 10/12/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 0-6-0 drive gear
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17475	From: Alan Kilby	Date: 10/12/2011
Subject: Re: : Sampson Success
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17476	From: ablecynic	Date: 10/13/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Smokey Joe Locomotive - 78 RPM Record?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17477	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 10/13/2011
Subject: Re: : Sampson Success
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17478	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 10/13/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 0-6-0 drive gear
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17479	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 10/13/2011
Subject: 0-6-0 Athearn drive gear
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17480	From: Dr. Robert Driggers	Date: 10/13/2011
Subject: Re: 0-6-0 Athearn drive gear [4 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17481	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 10/13/2011
Subject: Re: 0-6-0 Athearn drive gear
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17482	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 10/13/2011
Subject: Re: 0-6-0 Athearn drive gear [4 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17483	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 10/14/2011
Subject: Fwd: Sampson Progress
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17484	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 10/14/2011
Subject: Re: Fwd: Sampson Progress [4 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17486	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 10/14/2011
Subject: Re: New member seeking assistance with old Mantua
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17487	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 10/14/2011
Subject: Re: New member seeking assistance with old Mantua
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17488	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 10/14/2011
Subject: Re: New member seeking assistance with old Mantua
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17489	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 10/14/2011
Subject: Re: New member seeking assistance with old Mantua
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17490	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 10/14/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Smokey Joe Locomotive - 78 RPM Record?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17491	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 10/14/2011
Subject: Re: New member seeking assistance with old Mantua
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17492	From: papa.smurf5@myfairpoint.net	Date: 10/14/2011
Subject: Re: New member seeking assistance with old Mantua
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17493	From: Glenn	Date: 10/14/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Smokey Joe Locomotive - 78 RPM Record?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17494	From: MRLENGAL2U@aol.com	Date: 10/15/2011
Subject: Re: New member seeking assistance with old Mantua
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17495	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 10/15/2011
Subject: Re: New member seeking assistance with old Mantua
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17496	From: Jens	Date: 10/15/2011
Subject: I am still deleting a former shop with N,HO,On30,O and G Scale Items
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17497	From: John Webster	Date: 10/15/2011
Subject: Re: New member seeking assistance with old Mantua
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17498	From: william witte	Date: 10/18/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Super Berkshire
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17499	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 10/18/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Super Berkshire
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17500	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 10/18/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Super Berkshire
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17501	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 10/18/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Super Berkshire
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17502	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 10/18/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Smokey Joe Locomotive - 78 RPM Record?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17503	From: boxcar4willhe	Date: 10/21/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Smokey Joe Locomotive - 78 RPM Record?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17504	From: boxcar4willhe	Date: 10/21/2011
Subject: What did I buy here?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17506	From: papasmurf	Date: 10/21/2011
Subject: WTB: Mantua #754 valve gear kit for their HO switchers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17507	From: Rick Jones	Date: 10/21/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Smokey Joe Locomotive - 78 RPM Record?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17508	From: ablecynic	Date: 10/22/2011
Subject: Re: What did I buy here?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17509	From: ablecynic	Date: 10/22/2011
Subject: Re: What did I buy here?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17510	From: jbark76	Date: 10/22/2011
Subject: Re: What did I buy here?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17511	From: ablecynic	Date: 10/22/2011
Subject: Re: What did I buy here?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17512	From: al45390	Date: 10/22/2011
Subject: What kind of coupler? [was: "What did I buy here?"]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17513	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 10/22/2011
Subject: Re: What kind of coupler? [was: "What did I buy here?"]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17514	From: Dale Smith	Date: 10/22/2011
Subject: Re: What did I buy here?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17515	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 10/22/2011
Subject: Re: What kind of coupler? [was: "What did I buy here?"]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17516	From: Garry Spear	Date: 10/22/2011
Subject: Re: What kind of coupler? [was: "What did I buy here?"]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17517	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 10/22/2011
Subject: Re: What kind of coupler? [was: "What did I buy here?"]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17518	From: boxcar4willhe	Date: 10/22/2011
Subject: Re: What kind of coupler? [was: "What did I buy here?"]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17519	From: boxcar4willhe	Date: 10/22/2011
Subject: Re: What did I buy here?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17520	From: boxcar4willhe	Date: 10/22/2011
Subject: Re: What did I buy here?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17521	From: Charles	Date: 10/22/2011
Subject: Re: What kind of coupler? [was: "What did I buy here?"]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17522	From: Garry Spear	Date: 10/22/2011
Subject: Re: What kind of coupler? [was: "What did I buy here?"]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17523	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 10/22/2011
Subject: Re: What kind of coupler? [was: "What did I buy here?"]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17524	From: Charles	Date: 10/22/2011
Subject: Re: What kind of coupler? [was: "What did I buy here?"]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17525	From: Lon Walker	Date: 10/22/2011
Subject: Re: What kind of coupler? [was: "What did I buy here?"]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17526	From: boxcar4willhe	Date: 10/22/2011
Subject: Re: What did I buy here?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17527	From: boxcar4willhe	Date: 10/22/2011
Subject: Re: What kind of coupler? [was: "What did I buy here?"]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17528	From: John Webster	Date: 10/23/2011
Subject: Re: WTB: Mantua #754 valve gear kit for their HO switchers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17529	From: Andrew Emmerson	Date: 10/23/2011
Subject: Re: What kind of coupler? [was: "What did I buy here?"]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17530	From: DOM ST.JOHN	Date: 10/23/2011
Subject: Re: What did I buy here?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17531	From: boxcar4willhe	Date: 10/23/2011
Subject: Re: What did I buy here?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17532	From: DOM ST.JOHN	Date: 10/23/2011
Subject: Re: What did I buy here?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17533	From: boxcar4willhe	Date: 10/23/2011
Subject: Re: What did I buy here?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17534	From: boxcar4willhe	Date: 10/23/2011
Subject: Re: What did I buy here?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17535	From: boxcar4willhe	Date: 10/23/2011
Subject: Re: What did I buy here?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17536	From: DOM ST.JOHN	Date: 10/23/2011
Subject: Re: What did I buy here?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17537	From: boxcar4willhe	Date: 10/23/2011
Subject: Re: What did I buy here?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17538	From: DOM ST.JOHN	Date: 10/23/2011
Subject: Re: What did I buy here?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17539	From: boxcar4willhe	Date: 10/23/2011
Subject: Re: What did I buy here?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17540	From: DOM ST.JOHN	Date: 10/23/2011
Subject: Re: What did I buy here?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17541	From: gary	Date: 10/23/2011
Subject: Semaphores
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17542	From: boxcar4willhe	Date: 10/23/2011
Subject: Re: What did I buy here?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17543	From: Rick Jones	Date: 10/23/2011
Subject: Re: Semaphores
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17544	From: gary pardue	Date: 10/23/2011
Subject: Re: Semaphores
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17545	From: Model RailRoad Warehouse	Date: 10/23/2011
Subject: Re: What did I buy here?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17546	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 10/25/2011
Subject: : Sampson Rail car
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17547	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 10/25/2011
Subject: RIVAROSSI MOBIL GAS PIGGYBACK TANK TRAILER FLAT CAR
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17548	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 10/25/2011
Subject: Re: : Sampson Rail car [3 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17549	From: Riverboy	Date: 10/25/2011
Subject: Re: RIVAROSSI MOBIL GAS PIGGYBACK TANK TRAILER FLAT CAR
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17550	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 10/25/2011
Subject: Re: RIVAROSSI MOBIL GAS PIGGYBACK TANK TRAILER FLAT CAR
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17551	From: Riverboy	Date: 10/25/2011
Subject: Re: RIVAROSSI MOBIL GAS PIGGYBACK TANK TRAILER FLAT CAR
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17552	From: Glenn	Date: 10/25/2011
Subject: MTS
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17553	From: John H	Date: 10/25/2011
Subject: Re: RIVAROSSI MOBIL GAS PIGGYBACK TANK TRAILER FLAT CAR
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17554	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 10/25/2011
Subject: Re: RIVAROSSI MOBIL GAS PIGGYBACK TANK TRAILER FLAT CAR
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17555	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 10/25/2011
Subject: Re: RIVAROSSI MOBIL GAS PIGGYBACK TANK TRAILER FLAT CAR
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17556	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 10/25/2011
Subject: Re: RIVAROSSI MOBIL GAS PIGGYBACK TANK TRAILER FLAT CAR
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17557	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 10/25/2011
Subject: Re: RIVAROSSI MOBIL GAS PIGGYBACK TANK TRAILER FLAT CAR
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17558	From: Garry Spear	Date: 10/25/2011
Subject: FS: 1948 Varney Catalog
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17559	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 10/26/2011
Subject: Re: RIVAROSSI MOBIL GAS PIGGYBACK TANK TRAILER FLAT CAR
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17560	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 10/26/2011
Subject: Re: RIVAROSSI MOBIL GAS PIGGYBACK TANK TRAILER FLAT CAR [1 Attachmen
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17561	From: corv9	Date: 10/26/2011
Subject: Re: MTS
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17562	From: al45390	Date: 10/26/2011
Subject: Some help needed
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17563	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 10/26/2011
Subject: Re: Some help needed
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17564	From: Garry Spear	Date: 10/26/2011
Subject: Fwd: FS: 1948 Varney Catalog
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17565	From: Mike Sloane	Date: 10/26/2011
Subject: Re: Some help needed
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17566	From: bcerestrains	Date: 10/26/2011
Subject: Re: RIVAROSSI MOBIL GAS PIGGYBACK TANK TRAILER FLAT CAR [1 Attachmen
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17567	From: william witte	Date: 10/26/2011
Subject: Re: RIVAROSSI MOBIL GAS PIGGYBACK TANK TRAILER FLAT CAR
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17568	From: estabrook@aol.com	Date: 10/26/2011
Subject: Re: RIVAROSSI MOBIL GAS PIGGYBACK TANK TRAILER FLAT CAR
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17569	From: estabrook@aol.com	Date: 10/26/2011
Subject: Re: RIVAROSSI MOBIL GAS PIGGYBACK TANK TRAILER FLAT CAR
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17570	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 10/26/2011
Subject: Re: Some help needed
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17572	From: boxcar4willhe	Date: 10/27/2011
Subject: Re: Some help needed
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17573	From: boxcar4willhe	Date: 10/27/2011
Subject: "TWO RAIL" Mantua booklet
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17574	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 10/27/2011
Subject: Re: "TWO RAIL" Mantua booklet
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17575	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 10/27/2011
Subject: Re: "TWO RAIL" Mantua booklet
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17576	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 10/28/2011
Subject: Off Topic request
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17577	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 10/28/2011
Subject: Re: Off Topic request
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17578	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 10/28/2011
Subject: Re: "TWO RAIL" Mantua booklet
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17579	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 10/28/2011
Subject: Re: RIVAROSSI MOBIL GAS PIGGYBACK TANK TRAILER FLAT CAR
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17580	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 10/28/2011
Subject: Re: RIVAROSSI MOBIL GAS PIGGYBACK TANK TRAILER FLAT CAR
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17581	From: Charles	Date: 10/28/2011
Subject: Re: Off Topic request
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17582	From: dennyanspach	Date: 10/28/2011
Subject: Re: "TWO RAIL" Mantua booklet
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17583	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 10/28/2011
Subject: Re: "TWO RAIL" Mantua booklet
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17584	From: Railroad Modeler	Date: 10/28/2011
Subject: Re: Off Topic request
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17585	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 10/29/2011
Subject: Not really a vintage question, but still wondering...
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17586	From: RalphB	Date: 10/30/2011
Subject: Re: Not really a vintage question, but still wondering...
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17587	From: MRLENGAL2U@aol.com	Date: 10/30/2011
Subject: Re: Wondering... TYCO conversation crossover
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17588	From: rcjge	Date: 10/30/2011
Subject: Re: Wondering... TYCO conversation crossover
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17589	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 10/30/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers HH thread WAS Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & Chron
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17590	From: mermaidnc	Date: 10/30/2011
Subject: brass drivers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17591	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 10/31/2011
Subject: Re: RIVAROSSI MOBIL GAS PIGGYBACK TANK TRAILER FLAT CAR
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17592	From: Nelson	Date: 10/31/2011
Subject: Re: brass drivers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17593	From: trainm7	Date: 11/1/2011
Subject: Re: brass drivers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17594	From: trainm7	Date: 11/1/2011
Subject: Re: Some help needed
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17595	From: corlissbs@aol.com	Date: 11/1/2011
Subject: Re: brass drivers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17596	From: Geo Stahlberg	Date: 11/1/2011
Subject: Re: brass drivers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17597	From: bluenosedviking	Date: 11/1/2011
Subject: Re: brass drivers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17598	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 11/1/2011
Subject: OFF TOPIC Just in case anyone was interested in seeing what I loooke
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17599	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 11/1/2011
Subject: Re: OFF TOPIC Just in case anyone was interested in seeing what I lo
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17600	From: Chris B	Date: 11/1/2011
Subject: Re: OFF TOPIC Just in case anyone was interested in seeing what I lo
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17601	From: boxcar4willhe	Date: 11/1/2011
Subject: armature repair question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17602	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 11/1/2011
Subject: Re: armature repair question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17603	From: boxcar4willhe	Date: 11/1/2011
Subject: Re: armature repair question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17604	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 11/2/2011
Subject: Re: armature repair question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17605	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 11/2/2011
Subject: Re: brass drivers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17606	From: bluenosedviking	Date: 11/2/2011
Subject: Re: brass drivers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17607	From: Chris B	Date: 11/2/2011
Subject: Re: brass drivers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17608	From: Mike	Date: 11/2/2011
Subject: Re: brass drivers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17609	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 11/2/2011
Subject: Re: OFF TOPIC Just in case anyone was interested in seeing what I lo
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17610	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 11/2/2011
Subject: Re: OFF TOPIC Just in case anyone was interested in seeing what I lo
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17611	From: trainm7	Date: 11/2/2011
Subject: Re: brass drivers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17612	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 11/2/2011
Subject: Re: brass drivers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17613	From: boxcar4willhe	Date: 11/2/2011
Subject: Re: armature repair question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17614	From: Nelson	Date: 11/3/2011
Subject: Re: armature repair question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17615	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 11/3/2011
Subject: Re: armature repair question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17616	From: PaulP	Date: 11/3/2011
Subject: 4-4-0 Old time Tender wheels
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17617	From: dennyanspach	Date: 11/3/2011
Subject: Re: brass drivers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17618	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 11/4/2011
Subject: Vintage Paper/Wood Milwaukee Road Hiawatha?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17619	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 11/5/2011
Subject: Re: armature repair question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17620	From: dennyanspach	Date: 11/5/2011
Subject: Re: Vintage Paper/Wood Milwaukee Road Hiawatha?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17621	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 11/5/2011
Subject: Re: Vintage Paper/Wood Milwaukee Road Hiawatha?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17622	From: Gary Woodard	Date: 11/5/2011
Subject: Picked One Up Today
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17623	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 11/5/2011
Subject: Re: Picked One Up Today [3 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17624	From: Glenn	Date: 11/5/2011
Subject: Re: Picked One Up Today [3 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17625	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 11/5/2011
Subject: Re: Picked One Up Today [3 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17626	From: Gary Woodard	Date: 11/5/2011
Subject: Re: Picked One Up Today
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17627	From: Gary Woodard	Date: 11/5/2011
Subject: Re: Picked One Up Today
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17628	From: Gary Woodard	Date: 11/5/2011
Subject: Re: Picked One Up Today
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17629	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 11/6/2011
Subject: Re: Picked One Up Today
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17630	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 11/6/2011
Subject: Re: Picked One Up Today
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17631	From: DOM ST.JOHN	Date: 11/6/2011
Subject: Re: Picked One Up Today [3 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17632	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 11/6/2011
Subject: Re: Picked One Up Today [3 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17633	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 11/6/2011
Subject: Re: Picked One Up Today [3 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17634	From: Jim Waterman	Date: 11/6/2011
Subject: Re: Picked One Up Today
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17635	From: dennyanspach	Date: 11/6/2011
Subject: Re: Vintage Paper/Wood Milwaukee Road Hiawatha?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17636	From: Gary Woodard	Date: 11/6/2011
Subject: Re: Picked One Up Today
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17637	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 11/6/2011
Subject: Re: Picked One Up Today
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17638	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 11/6/2011
Subject: Re: Picked One Up Today
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17639	From: Gary Woodard	Date: 11/6/2011
Subject: Re: Picked One Up Today
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17640	From: DOM ST.JOHN	Date: 11/6/2011
Subject: Re: Picked One Up Today
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17641	From: Gary Woodard	Date: 11/6/2011
Subject: Re: Picked One Up Today
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17642	From: Nelson	Date: 11/6/2011
Subject: Re: Picked One Up Today
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17643	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 11/6/2011
Subject: Re: Picked One Up Today
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17644	From: Gary Woodard	Date: 11/7/2011
Subject: Re: Picked One Up Today
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17645	From: Gary Woodard	Date: 11/7/2011
Subject: Re: Picked One Up Today
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17646	From: Mike Sloane	Date: 11/7/2011
Subject: Re: Picked One Up Today
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17647	From: DOM ST.JOHN	Date: 11/7/2011
Subject: Re: Picked One Up Today
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17648	From: leetrains	Date: 11/7/2011
Subject: turntable picture folder link
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17649	From: leetrains	Date: 11/7/2011
Subject: ID of a turntable
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17650	From: Lee	Date: 11/7/2011
Subject: Help in ID of a turntable
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17651	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 11/7/2011
Subject: Re: Help in ID of a turntable [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17652	From: Russ Shiel	Date: 11/7/2011
Subject: Re: ID of a turntable
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17653	From: Garry Spear	Date: 11/8/2011
Subject: Re: turntable picture folder link
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17654	From: Geo Stahlberg	Date: 11/8/2011
Subject: Re: Help in ID of a turntable
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17655	From: Garry Spear	Date: 11/8/2011
Subject: Re: Help in ID of a turntable
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17656	From: Andrew Emmerson	Date: 11/8/2011
Subject: Re: Help in ID of a turntable
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17657	From: Andrew Emmerson	Date: 11/8/2011
Subject: Re: Help in ID of a turntable
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17658	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 11/8/2011
Subject: Re: Help in ID of a turntable
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17659	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 11/8/2011
Subject: Re: Help in ID of a turntable
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17660	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 11/8/2011
Subject: Re: Help in ID of a turntable
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17661	From: Nelson	Date: 11/9/2011
Subject: Re: Help in ID of a turntable
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17662	From: rcjge	Date: 11/9/2011
Subject: United made Sierra 2-6-6-2 run variations?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17663	From: tom bell	Date: 11/9/2011
Subject: Re: United made Sierra 2-6-6-2 run variations?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17664	From: leetrains	Date: 11/9/2011
Subject: Re: Help in ID of a turntable
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17665	From: rcjge	Date: 11/9/2011
Subject: Re: United made Sierra 2-6-6-2 run variations?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17666	From: leetrains	Date: 11/10/2011
Subject: Re: Help in ID of a turntable
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17667	From: boxcar4willhe	Date: 11/11/2011
Subject: Re: armature repair question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17668	From: boxcar4willhe	Date: 11/11/2011
Subject: Re: armature repair question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17669	From: rcjge	Date: 11/12/2011
Subject: Fleicshmann Baldwin Switcher info sought
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17670	From: Nelson	Date: 11/12/2011
Subject: Re: armature repair question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17671	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 11/12/2011
Subject: Re: Stlil here
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17672	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 11/12/2011
Subject: Re: Stlil here
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17673	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 11/12/2011
Subject: Re: Stlil here
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17674	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 11/12/2011
Subject: Re: Stlil here
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17675	From: Donald R. Staton	Date: 11/12/2011
Subject: Re: Stlil here
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17676	From: tom leen	Date: 11/12/2011
Subject: Re: Stlil here
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17677	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 11/12/2011
Subject: Re: Stlil here
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17678	From: grassball2003	Date: 11/12/2011
Subject: Need Parts List: Roundhouse #1516 Jordan Spreader / Snow Crab &Tool
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17679	From: gary	Date: 11/12/2011
Subject: Concrete piers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17680	From: Nelson	Date: 11/13/2011
Subject: Re: Stlil here
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17681	From: Glenn	Date: 11/13/2011
Subject: Re: Concrete piers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17682	From: gary pardue	Date: 11/13/2011
Subject: Re: Concrete piers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17683	From: tomvanhoy	Date: 11/13/2011
Subject: Re; Concrete piers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17684	From: gary pardue	Date: 11/13/2011
Subject: Re: Re; Concrete piers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17685	From: topstokes	Date: 11/14/2011
Subject: Lansing Model RR Club annual show Lansing MI
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17686	From: Richard	Date: 11/14/2011
Subject: Re: Concrete piers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17687	From: AlfredG	Date: 11/15/2011
Subject: ORLANDO area Train Show this Saturday
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17688	From: Alpvalsys@aol.com	Date: 11/16/2011
Subject: Re: ORLANDO area Train Show this Saturday
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17689	From: nvrr49	Date: 11/16/2011
Subject: Gilbert question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17690	From: DOM ST.JOHN	Date: 11/16/2011
Subject: Re: Gilbert question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17691	From: Glenn	Date: 11/16/2011
Subject: Re: Gilbert question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17692	From: Dale Smith	Date: 11/16/2011
Subject: Re: Gilbert question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17693	From: nvrr49	Date: 11/16/2011
Subject: Re: Gilbert question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17694	From: DOM ST.JOHN	Date: 11/16/2011
Subject: Re: Gilbert question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17695	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 11/16/2011
Subject: Re: Gilbert question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17696	From: earlyrail	Date: 11/17/2011
Subject: Unkown Combine - ID needed
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17697	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 11/17/2011
Subject: Re: Unkown Combine - ID needed
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17698	From: earlyrail	Date: 11/17/2011
Subject: Re: Unkown Combine - ID needed
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17699	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 11/17/2011
Subject: Re: Unkown Combine - ID needed
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17700	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 11/17/2011
Subject: Re: Unkown Combine - ID needed
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17701	From: Dale Smith	Date: 11/17/2011
Subject: Re: Gilbert question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17702	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 11/17/2011
Subject: Re: Gilbert question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17703	From: dennyanspach	Date: 11/18/2011
Subject: Re: Unkown Combine - ID needed
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17704	From: Dale Smith	Date: 11/18/2011
Subject: Re: Gilbert question
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17705	From: rcjge	Date: 11/18/2011
Subject: Fleischmann Baldwin Switcher
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17706	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 11/18/2011
Subject: Re: Fleischmann Baldwin Switcher
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17707	From: rcjge	Date: 11/18/2011
Subject: Re: Fleischmann Baldwin Switcher
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17708	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 11/19/2011
Subject: Re: Fleischmann Baldwin Switcher
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17709	From: Howard R Garner	Date: 11/19/2011
Subject: Re: Unkown Combine - ID needed
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17710	From: rcjge	Date: 11/19/2011
Subject: Re: Fleischmann Baldwin Switcher
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17711	From: rcjge	Date: 11/19/2011
Subject: Hobbytown Multi-drive diagram sought
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17712	From: rcjge	Date: 11/19/2011
Subject: Re: Hobbytown Multi-drive diagram sought
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17713	From: Glenn	Date: 11/19/2011
Subject: Re: Hobbytown Multi-drive diagram sought
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17714	From: corlissbs@aol.com	Date: 11/19/2011
Subject: Re: Hobbytown Multi-drive diagram sought
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17715	From: dwaite2000	Date: 11/19/2011
Subject: A. Depippo
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17716	From: rcjge	Date: 11/19/2011
Subject: Re: Hobbytown Multi-drive diagram sought
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17717	From: jimbosul	Date: 11/19/2011
Subject: trucks for vintage Walthers passenger kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17718	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 11/19/2011
Subject: Re: trucks for vintage Walthers passenger kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17719	From: Lawrence	Date: 11/20/2011
Subject: Re: Fleischmann Baldwin Switcher
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17720	From: corlissbs@aol.com	Date: 11/21/2011
Subject: Re: Hobbytown Multi-drive diagram sought
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17721	From: Fred Hultberg	Date: 11/21/2011
Subject: Interesting Link
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17722	From: trainm7	Date: 11/21/2011
Subject: Re: Hobbytown Multi-drive diagram sought
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17723	From: Glenn	Date: 11/21/2011
Subject: Re: Hobbytown Multi-drive diagram sought
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17724	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 11/21/2011
Subject: Re: A. Depippo
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17725	From: rcjge	Date: 11/21/2011
Subject: Re: Hobbytown Multi-drive diagram sought
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17726	From: Glenn	Date: 11/21/2011
Subject: Re: Hobbytown Multi-drive diagram sought
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17727	From: Richard	Date: 11/22/2011
Subject: Re: Hobbytown Multi-drive diagram sought
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17728	From: acace@juno.com	Date: 11/22/2011
Subject: Re: A. Depippo
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17729	From: Glenn	Date: 11/22/2011
Subject: Hobbytown Multidrive
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17730	From: Charlie	Date: 11/22/2011
Subject: Re: Hobbytown Multidrive
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17731	From: Glenn	Date: 11/22/2011
Subject: Re: Hobbytown Multidrive
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17732	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 11/23/2011
Subject: Re: Hobbytown Multidrive
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17733	From: rcjge	Date: 11/23/2011
Subject: Re: Hobbytown Multi-drive diagram sought
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17734	From: Glenn	Date: 11/23/2011
Subject: Re: Hobbytown Multi-drive diagram sought
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17735	From: Glenn	Date: 11/23/2011
Subject: Re: Hobbytown Multidrive
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17736	From: Glenn	Date: 11/23/2011
Subject: Hobbytown Multidrive
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17737	From: Glenn	Date: 11/23/2011
Subject: hobbytown multidrive
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17738	From: Charlie	Date: 11/23/2011
Subject: Re: Hobbytown Multidrive
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17739	From: Glenn	Date: 11/23/2011
Subject: Re: Hobbytown Multidrive
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17740	From: rcjge	Date: 11/23/2011
Subject: Re: Hobbytown Multidrive
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17741	From: Glenn	Date: 11/23/2011
Subject: Re: Hobbytown Multidrive
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17742	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 11/24/2011
Subject: OT Holiday greetings
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17743	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 11/24/2011
Subject: Re: OT Holiday greetings
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17744	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 11/24/2011
Subject: Re: Gooble, Gooble
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17745	From: Donald R. Staton	Date: 11/24/2011
Subject: Re: Gooble, Gooble
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17746	From: Garry Spear	Date: 11/24/2011
Subject: Fwd: Penn Line RDG Crusader & Mantua RDG Atlantic & Pacific Kit Phot
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17747	From: Glenn	Date: 11/24/2011
Subject: Re: HT multi-drive units
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17748	From: William Anderson	Date: 11/24/2011
Subject: Re: Fwd: Penn Line RDG Crusader & Mantua RDG Atlantic & Pacific Kit
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17749	From: acace@juno.com	Date: 11/24/2011
Subject: Re: A. Depippo
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17750	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 11/24/2011
Subject: Re: Penn Line RDG Crusader & Mantua RDG Atlantic & Pacific Kit Photo
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17751	From: Jim Waterman	Date: 11/27/2011
Subject: Re: Gooble, Gooble
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17752	From: wdavis5069	Date: 11/27/2011
Subject: Re: Ohio Seamless Tube car
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17753	From: Mike Sloane	Date: 11/27/2011
Subject: Re: Ohio Seamless Tube car
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17754	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 11/27/2011
Subject: Re: Ohio Seamless Tube car
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17755	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 11/27/2011
Subject: Re: Ohio Seamless Tube car
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17756	From: Russ Shiel	Date: 11/27/2011
Subject: Kar-Line inventory
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17757	From: John H	Date: 11/27/2011
Subject: Re: Ohio Seamless Tube car
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17758	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 11/27/2011
Subject: Re: Kar-Line inventory
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17759	From: boxcar4willhe	Date: 11/27/2011
Subject: Tractors as flat car load, photos
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17760	From: wdavis5069	Date: 11/27/2011
Subject: Re: Ohio Seamless Tube car
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17761	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 11/27/2011
Subject: Re: Ohio Seamless Tube car
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17762	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 11/27/2011
Subject: Re: Kar-Line inventory
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17763	From: Mike Sloane	Date: 11/28/2011
Subject: Re: Tractors as flat car load, photos
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17764	From: acace@juno.com	Date: 11/28/2011
Subject: Re: Kar-Line inventory
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17765	From: wdavis5069	Date: 11/28/2011
Subject: Re: Kar-Line inventory
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17766	From: acace@juno.com	Date: 11/28/2011
Subject: Re: Kar-Line inventory
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17767	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 11/28/2011
Subject: Re: Kar-Line inventory
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17768	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 11/28/2011
Subject: Re: Ohio Seamless Tube car
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17769	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 11/28/2011
Subject: Re: Kar-Line inventory
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17770	From: wdavis5069	Date: 11/28/2011
Subject: Re: Kar-Line inventory
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17771	From: Nelson	Date: 11/28/2011
Subject: Rivarossi / Lionel 2-8-0 Set
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17772	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 11/28/2011
Subject: Re: Rivarossi / Lionel 2-8-0 Set
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17773	From: gnmrr	Date: 11/28/2011
Subject: Re: Kar-Line inventory
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17774	From: bcerestrains	Date: 11/29/2011
Subject: Re: Rivarossi / Lionel 2-8-0 Set
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17775	From: Nelson	Date: 11/29/2011
Subject: Re: Rivarossi / Lionel 2-8-0 Set
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17776	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 11/29/2011
Subject: Re: Rivarossi / Lionel 2-8-0 Set
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17777	From: Nelson	Date: 11/29/2011
Subject: Re: Rivarossi / Lionel 2-8-0 Set
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17778	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 11/29/2011
Subject: Re: Rivarossi / Lionel 2-8-0 Set
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17779	From: bcerestrains	Date: 11/30/2011
Subject: Re: Rivarossi / Lionel 2-8-0 Set
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17780	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 11/30/2011
Subject: Re: Kar-Line inventory
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17781	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 11/30/2011
Subject: Fwd: Sampson Powered Rail Car
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17782	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 11/30/2011
Subject: Re: Fwd: Sampson Powered Rail Car [4 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17783	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 11/30/2011
Subject: Re: Fwd: Sampson Powered Rail Car [4 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17784	From: Nelson	Date: 11/30/2011
Subject: Re: Rivarossi / Lionel 2-8-0 Set
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17785	From: rcjge	Date: 12/1/2011
Subject: Vintage restoration hypothetical
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17786	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 12/1/2011
Subject: Re: Vintage restoration hypothetical
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17787	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 12/1/2011
Subject: Re: Vintage restoration hypothetical
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17788	From: MRLENGAL2U@aol.com	Date: 12/1/2011
Subject: Re: Vintage restoration hypothetical
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17789	From: nvrr49	Date: 12/2/2011
Subject: Re: Vintage restoration hypothetical
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17790	From: David J. Starr	Date: 12/2/2011
Subject: Re: Vintage restoration hypothetical
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17791	From: allen	Date: 12/2/2011
Subject: Re: Vintage restoration hypothetical
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17792	From: Russ	Date: 12/2/2011
Subject: Kar-Line now up on HOSeeker
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17793	From: Donald Dellmann	Date: 12/3/2011
Subject: Re: Vintage restoration hypothetical
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17794	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 12/3/2011
Subject: Re: Hiawatha
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17795	From: John H	Date: 12/3/2011
Subject: Re: Hiawatha
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17796	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 12/3/2011
Subject: Re: Hiawatha
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17797	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 12/3/2011
Subject: Re: Hiawatha
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17798	From: acace@juno.com	Date: 12/3/2011
Subject: Re: Kar-Line
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17799	From: Jim Waterman	Date: 12/4/2011
Subject: Re: Hiawatha
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17800	From: John H	Date: 12/4/2011
Subject: Re: Hiawatha
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17801	From: Mike	Date: 12/4/2011
Subject: Is it Mantua?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17802	From: jay matz	Date: 12/4/2011
Subject: Re: Is it Mantua?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17803	From: rcjge	Date: 12/4/2011
Subject: Re: Vintage restoration hypothetical
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17804	From: Mike	Date: 12/4/2011
Subject: Re: Is it Mantua?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17805	From: Glenn	Date: 12/4/2011
Subject: Re: Is it Mantua?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17806	From: jay matz	Date: 12/4/2011
Subject: Re: Is it Mantua?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17807	From: boxcar4willhe	Date: 12/4/2011
Subject: Photos w/captions in Walker, Lons trains album
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17808	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 12/4/2011
Subject: Re: Photos w/captions in Walker, Lons trains album
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17809	From: Lon Walker	Date: 12/4/2011
Subject: Re: Photos w/captions in Walker, Lons trains album
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17810	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 12/4/2011
Subject: Re: Photos w/captions in Walker, Lons trains album
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17811	From: Lon Walker	Date: 12/4/2011
Subject: Re: Photos w/captions in Walker, Lons trains album
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17812	From: Jerome	Date: 12/5/2011
Subject: Frisco Norge Box Car
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17813	From: dennyanspach	Date: 12/5/2011
Subject: Re: Hiawatha
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17814	From: dennyanspach	Date: 12/5/2011
Subject: Re: Is it Mantua?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17815	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 12/5/2011
Subject: Recent Varney Dockside project
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17816	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 12/5/2011
Subject: Re: Photos w/captions in Walker, Lons trains album
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17817	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 12/5/2011
Subject: Re: Recent Varney Dockside project
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17818	From: boxcar4willhe	Date: 12/5/2011
Subject: Re: Recent Varney Dockside project
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17819	From: Dennis Thompson	Date: 12/5/2011
Subject: Re: Recent Varney Dockside project
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17820	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 12/5/2011
Subject: Re: Recent Varney Dockside project
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17821	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 12/6/2011
Subject: Re: Recent Varney Dockside project
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17822	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 12/6/2011
Subject: Re: Kar-Line now up on HOSeeker
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17823	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 12/6/2011
Subject: Engine I won
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17824	From: John H	Date: 12/6/2011
Subject: Re: Engine I won
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17825	From: chrisb_acw_rr@yahoo.com	Date: 12/6/2011
Subject: Re: Engine I won [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17826	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 12/6/2011
Subject: Don't understand what happened
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17827	From: John H	Date: 12/6/2011
Subject: Re: Don't understand what happened
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17828	From: Dennis Thompson	Date: 12/6/2011
Subject: Re: Don't understand what happened
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17829	From: Dennis Thompson	Date: 12/6/2011
Subject: Re: Engine I won [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17830	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 12/6/2011
Subject: Re: Engine I won [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17831	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 12/6/2011
Subject: Re: Don't understand what happened
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17832	From: Alan	Date: 12/6/2011
Subject: Re: Don't understand what happened
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17833	From: Glenn	Date: 12/6/2011
Subject: Re: Engine I won
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17834	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 12/7/2011
Subject: Re: Engine I won
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17835	From: RalphB	Date: 12/7/2011
Subject: Re: Engine I won
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17836	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 12/7/2011
Subject: Re: Engine I won
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17837	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 12/7/2011
Subject: Re: Engine I won
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17838	From: Nelson	Date: 12/7/2011
Subject: Re: Engine I won [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17839	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 12/7/2011
Subject: Athearn Snap-on Truck?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17840	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 12/7/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn Snap-on Truck?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17841	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 12/7/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn Snap-on Truck?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17842	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 12/7/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn Snap-on Truck?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17843	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 12/7/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn Snap-on Truck?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17844	From: RalphB	Date: 12/8/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn Snap-on Truck?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17845	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 12/8/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn Snap-on Truck?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17846	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 12/8/2011
Subject: pre war varney plastic sided passenger
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17847	From: rcjge	Date: 12/8/2011
Subject: 80' Walthers Pullman car 4 sale
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17848	From: Alan	Date: 12/8/2011
Subject: caboose id?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17849	From: jay matz	Date: 12/8/2011
Subject: Re: caboose id?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17850	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 12/8/2011
Subject: Re: caboose id?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17851	From: ablecynic	Date: 12/8/2011
Subject: Vintage and Near vintage Collection for Trade
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17852	From: Richard White	Date: 12/8/2011
Subject: Re: caboose id?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17853	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 12/8/2011
Subject: Re: caboose id?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17854	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 12/8/2011
Subject: Re: caboose id?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17855	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 12/8/2011
Subject: Re: caboose id?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17856	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 12/8/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn Snap-on Truck?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17857	From: ablecynic	Date: 12/9/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn Snap-on Truck?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17858	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 12/9/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn Snap-on Truck?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17859	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 12/9/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn Snap-on Truck?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17860	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 12/9/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn Snap-on Truck?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17861	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 12/10/2011
Subject: Fwd: New Haven Wood bodied Diesel
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17862	From: rcjge	Date: 12/10/2011
Subject: JE Pacific was based on....
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17863	From: Brent	Date: 12/15/2011
Subject: Roundhouse 5L-2 0-6-0T Tank Switcher
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17864	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 12/15/2011
Subject: Re: Roundhouse 5L-2 0-6-0T Tank Switcher
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17865	From: cwrailman	Date: 12/15/2011
Subject: New CWRailman WEB site up and running
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17866	From: hawk53965	Date: 12/16/2011
Subject: Re: Engine I won
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17867	From: John H	Date: 12/16/2011
Subject: Re: Engine I won
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17868	From: Brent	Date: 12/16/2011
Subject: Re: Roundhouse 5L-2 0-6-0T Tank Switcher
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17869	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 12/16/2011
Subject: Re: Engine I won
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17870	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 12/17/2011
Subject: Re: Roundhouse 5L-2 0-6-0T Tank Switcher
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17871	From: Mike Sloane	Date: 12/17/2011
Subject: Re: Roundhouse 5L-2 0-6-0T Tank Switcher
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17872	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 12/17/2011
Subject: Re: Roundhouse 5L-2 0-6-0T Tank Switcher
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17873	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 12/17/2011
Subject: Re: caboose id?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17874	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 12/17/2011
Subject: Re: Roundhouse 5L-2 0-6-0T Tank Switcher
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17875	From: Dale Smith	Date: 12/17/2011
Subject: Changes at americanflyerdisplays.org - new vintage HO content
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17876	From: hbutlerlists	Date: 12/17/2011
Subject: Couplers for Varney celluloid-side passenger cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17877	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 12/17/2011
Subject: Re: Couplers for Varney celluloid-side passenger cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17878	From: Dale F. Smith	Date: 12/18/2011
Subject: Re: Changes at americanflyerdisplays.org - new vintage HO content
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17879	From: John Webster	Date: 12/18/2011
Subject: Re: Roundhouse 5L-2 0-6-0T Tank Switcher
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17880	From: RalphB	Date: 12/18/2011
Subject: Re: Roundhouse 5L-2 0-6-0T Tank Switcher
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17881	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 12/18/2011
Subject: Re: Roundhouse 5L-2 0-6-0T Tank Switcher
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17882	From: hbutlerlists	Date: 12/18/2011
Subject: Re: Couplers for Varney celluloid-side passenger cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17883	From: cwrailman	Date: 12/18/2011
Subject: Re: Changes at americanflyerdisplays.org - new vintage HO content
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17884	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 12/18/2011
Subject: Pilot ID
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17885	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 12/18/2011
Subject: Re: Roundhouse 5L-2 0-6-0T Tank Switcher
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17886	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 12/18/2011
Subject: Re: Roundhouse 5L-2 0-6-0T Tank Switcher
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17887	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 12/18/2011
Subject: Re: Roundhouse 5L-2 0-6-0T Tank Switcher
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17888	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 12/18/2011
Subject: Re: Roundhouse 5L-2 0-6-0T Tank Switcher
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17889	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 12/18/2011
Subject: Re: Roundhouse 5L-2 0-6-0T Tank Switcher
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17890	From: Charlie	Date: 12/18/2011
Subject: Old Gears - in your Junk Box
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17891	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 12/19/2011
Subject: Re: Old Gears - in your Junk Box
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17892	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 12/19/2011
Subject: Re: Pilot ID
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17893	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 12/19/2011
Subject: Re: Pilot ID
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17894	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 12/19/2011
Subject: Re: Pilot ID
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17895	From: Charlie	Date: 12/19/2011
Subject: Re: Old Gears - in your Junk Box
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17896	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 12/20/2011
Subject: wood sealer
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17897	From: acace@juno.com	Date: 12/20/2011
Subject: Re: wood sealer
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17898	From: John Barlow	Date: 12/20/2011
Subject: Re: wood sealer
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17899	From: David J. Starr	Date: 12/21/2011
Subject: Re: wood sealer
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17900	From: cwrailman	Date: 12/21/2011
Subject: Re: wood sealer
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17901	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 12/21/2011
Subject: Re: wood sealer
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17902	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 12/22/2011
Subject: Fwd: Varney wood & plastic Passenger cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17903	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 12/22/2011
Subject: Re: Fwd: Varney wood & plastic Passenger cars [3 Attachments]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17904	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 12/23/2011
Subject: Re: Fwd: Varney wood & plastic Passenger cars
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17905	From: Raymond Lorts, Sr,	Date: 12/23/2011
Subject: (no subject)
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17906	From: Jay	Date: 12/24/2011
Subject: Happy Holidays to All!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17907	From: Jay	Date: 12/24/2011
Subject: Re: Fwd: Sampson Powered Rail Car
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17908	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/24/2011
Subject: Re: Happy Holidays to All!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17909	From: Dr. Robert Driggers	Date: 12/24/2011
Subject: Rivarossi 2-8-8-0
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17910	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 12/24/2011
Subject: Re: Rivarossi 2-8-8-0
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17911	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 12/24/2011
Subject: Holiday greetings
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17912	From: cwrailman	Date: 12/24/2011
Subject: Re: Holiday greetings
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17913	From: John H	Date: 12/24/2011
Subject: Re: Holiday greetings
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17914	From: hooligan	Date: 12/24/2011
Subject: Re: Holiday greetings
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17915	From: Larry	Date: 12/25/2011
Subject: Merry Christmas!
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17916	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 12/25/2011
Subject: Re: Holiday greetings
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17917	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 12/25/2011
Subject: Re: Holiday greetings
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17918	From: Nelson	Date: 12/25/2011
Subject: Re: Rivarossi 2-8-8-0
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17919	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 12/26/2011
Subject: Re: Rivarossi 2-8-8-0
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17920	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 12/26/2011
Subject: Rudolf
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17921	From: Jay	Date: 12/26/2011
Subject: Re: Rudolf
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17922	From: Jay	Date: 12/26/2011
Subject: A "Ghost" under my tree, this year! (.by Lindsay!)
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17923	From: cwrailman	Date: 12/26/2011
Subject: Re: Rudolf
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17924	From: cwrailman	Date: 12/26/2011
Subject: Re: A "Ghost" under my tree, this year! (.by Lindsay!)
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17925	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 12/26/2011
Subject: Re: Rudolf [1 Attachment]
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17926	From: Nelson	Date: 12/26/2011
Subject: Re: Rivarossi 2-8-8-0
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17927	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 12/26/2011
Subject: Re: A "Ghost" under my tree, this year! (.by Lindsay!)
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17928	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 12/26/2011
Subject: Re: Rudolf
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17929	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 12/26/2011
Subject: Re: Rivarossi 2-8-8-0
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17930	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 12/26/2011
Subject: Re: Rudolf
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17931	From: Mike Sloane	Date: 12/26/2011
Subject: Kalmbach Model Railroader DVD
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17932	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 12/26/2011
Subject: Identity?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17933	From: Nelson	Date: 12/26/2011
Subject: Re: Rivarossi 2-8-8-0
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17934	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 12/26/2011
Subject: Re: Identity?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17935	From: Fred Krause	Date: 12/26/2011
Subject: Vintage HO Scale Loco kits
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17936	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 12/26/2011
Subject: Re: Identity?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17937	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 12/26/2011
Subject: Re: Identity?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17938	From: Charles	Date: 12/26/2011
Subject: Re: Kalmbach Model Railroader DVD
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17939	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 12/26/2011
Subject: Re: Identity?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17940	From: Larry	Date: 12/26/2011
Subject: Re: Identity?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17941	From: hooligan	Date: 12/26/2011
Subject: Re: Kalmbach Model Railroader DVD
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17942	From: Larry	Date: 12/26/2011
Subject: Re: Identity?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17943	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 12/26/2011
Subject: Re: Identity?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17944	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 12/26/2011
Subject: Re: Identity?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17945	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 12/27/2011
Subject: Re: Identity?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17946	From: cwrailman	Date: 12/27/2011
Subject: Re: Kalmbach Model Railroader DVD
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17947	From: Mike Sloane	Date: 12/27/2011
Subject: Re: Kalmbach Model Railroader DVD
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17948	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 12/27/2011
Subject: Re: Kalmbach Model Railroader DVD
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17949	From: cwrailman	Date: 12/27/2011
Subject: Re: Kalmbach Model Railroader DVD
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17950	From: ckinzer@att.net	Date: 12/27/2011
Subject: Re: Kalmbach Model Railroader DVD
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17951	From: ckinzer@att.net	Date: 12/27/2011
Subject: History of the hobby
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17952	From: acace@juno.com	Date: 12/27/2011
Subject: Re: History of the hobby
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17953	From: Mike Sloane	Date: 12/27/2011
Subject: Re: Kalmbach Model Railroader DVD
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17954	From: Rick Jones	Date: 12/27/2011
Subject: Re: Kalmbach Model Railroader DVD
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17955	From: ckinzer@att.net	Date: 12/27/2011
Subject: Re: Kalmbach Model Railroader DVD
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17956	From: ckinzer@att.net	Date: 12/27/2011
Subject: Re: Kalmbach Model Railroader DVD
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17957	From: John H	Date: 12/27/2011
Subject: Varney metal? caboose on eBay
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17958	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 12/27/2011
Subject: Re: Varney metal? caboose on eBay
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17959	From: raul@wi.rr.com	Date: 12/27/2011
Subject: Re: Varney metal? caboose on eBay
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17960	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 12/27/2011
Subject: Re: Varney metal? caboose on eBay
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17961	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 12/28/2011
Subject: Re: Varney metal? caboose on eBay
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17962	From: Jay	Date: 12/28/2011
Subject: Re: Varney metal? caboose on eBay
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17963	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 12/28/2011
Subject: :Looking for
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17964	From: Jay	Date: 12/28/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Caboose Model Versions, 1938-1950
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17965	From: tieplatejunction	Date: 12/28/2011
Subject: Mantua Pacific
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17966	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 12/28/2011
Subject: Re: Mantua Pacific
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17967	From: Donald R. Staton	Date: 12/28/2011
Subject: Re: Mantua Pacific
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17968	From: Robert Colliflower	Date: 12/29/2011
Subject: Re: Mantua Pacific
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17970	From: David J. Starr	Date: 12/29/2011
Subject: Re: Mantua Pacific
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17971	From: Donald R. Staton	Date: 12/29/2011
Subject: Re: Mantua Pacific
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17972	From: Jay	Date: 12/29/2011
Subject: New Railmaster Diecast Kit Roads & Road Numbers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17973	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 12/29/2011
Subject: Re: Mantua Pacific
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17974	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 12/29/2011
Subject: Re: Mantua Pacific
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17975	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 12/29/2011
Subject: Hackers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17976	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 12/29/2011
Subject: Re: Hackers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17977	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 12/29/2011
Subject: Re: Hackers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17978	From: John Barlow	Date: 12/29/2011
Subject: Re: Hackers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17979	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 12/29/2011
Subject: Re: Hackers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17980	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 12/29/2011
Subject: Re: Hackers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17981	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 12/29/2011
Subject: Re: Hackers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17982	From: Jay	Date: 12/29/2011
Subject: Re: New Railmaster Diecast Kit Roads & Road Numbers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17983	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/29/2011
Subject: Re: New Railmaster Diecast Kit Roads & Road Numbers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17984	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/29/2011
Subject: Re: New Railmaster Diecast Kit Roads & Road Numbers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17985	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/29/2011
Subject: Re: New Railmaster Diecast Kit Roads & Road Numbers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17986	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 12/30/2011
Subject: Theodore Picard 1948 Obituary
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17987	From: Robert Colliflower	Date: 12/30/2011
Subject: Re: Mantua Pacific
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17988	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 12/30/2011
Subject: Re: Mantua Pacific
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17989	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 12/30/2011
Subject: Re: Mantua Pacific
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17990	From: Jay	Date: 12/30/2011
Subject: Re: New Railmaster Diecast Kit Roads & Road Numbers
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17991	From: MikeS	Date: 12/30/2011
Subject: Lionel Super "O" Trackage
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17992	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 12/30/2011
Subject: Re: Mantua Pacific
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17993	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 12/30/2011
Subject: Marn-O-Stat
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17994	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 12/30/2011
Subject: Re: Marn-O-Stat
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17995	From: tieplatejunction	Date: 12/30/2011
Subject: Mantua Pacific, part II....
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17996	From: hbutlerlists	Date: 12/31/2011
Subject: Kadees for Hobbyline kits?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17997	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 12/31/2011
Subject: Re: Kadees for Hobbyline kits?
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17998	From: tieplatejunction	Date: 12/31/2011
Subject: Mantua Pacific...Epilogue
Group: vintageHO	Message: 17999	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 12/31/2011
Subject: Need ID help
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18000	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 12/31/2011
Subject: Re: Need ID help
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18001	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 12/31/2011
Subject: Re: Need ID help
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18002	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 12/31/2011
Subject: Re: Need ID help
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18003	From: John H	Date: 12/31/2011
Subject: Re: Need ID help
Group: vintageHO	Message: 18004	From: raul@wi.rr.com	Date: 12/31/2011
Subject: Re: Need ID help

---

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15733	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 1/1/2011
Subject: Walthers 85' Observation Car - Diagram Needed

Group, I checked on HO Seeker, and did not find what I am looking for: The diagram to a metal and wood 85' Heavyweight observation car. Does anyone have a copy they could scan in? I have two of these cars, and need to know where the prism windows go. I got one car that works mechanically, but was cosmetically pretty ratty. After removing the roof (Was held down only by a screw through the deck, I pulled out the damaged celluloid window inserts (No prism windows - all clear), and have replaced this. I got tons of prism window inserts, but need to know what windows used them... Also, upon checking again, there is no 85' dining car diagram, same problem: Where do the prism windows go on that car? Any help is most appreicated! Been spending the day listening to my 78 RPM records and finally tackling fixing up a bunch of Walthers cars that needed repairs. -Steve Neubaum

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15734	From: John Hagen	Date: 1/1/2011
Subject: OSTUCO for Varney

Attachments : Ostuco_Var_02x.pdf Group,   Attached (hopefully) is the Varney version of the OSTUCO Gon. If Don or someone would print it out and cut out the various sections to see if they fit the car, I would certainly appreciate it.   Once I am sure the scale is correct I can start printing. Maybe. Depends if I do include both sets as one. Since none of the decals will work on the other car, my thought of doing both is kinda moot. The idea was to only print the extra decals needed to fit the other car but as that has become the whole set………   Anyway, if I do include both I will have to wait until I can test fit the Walthers car also. That should be Tuesday but, as usual in today’s world, no guarantees.   Oh yes, the all black artwork should not an area of concern. When printing with spot colors (the very best way with an Alps printer), all artwork must be black. The color of the inks used is selected at the time of actual printing.   John Hagen

@@attachment@@

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15735	From: Jim Waterman	Date: 1/1/2011
Subject: Re: Some Conover Progress

Looking really nice, Jim I wonder how many hours you'll have in on this one by the time it's done! I can't imagine a nicer one anywhere in existance. Jim Waterman

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15736	From: John H	Date: 1/1/2011
Subject: Re: OSTUCO for Varney

I just opened the attachment as it comes over the web. I see a couple of problems that I will address before the actual printing. The "1" in 1740 and the whole car number appear overly heavy Also the line above the OSTX seems merged with the stripe above it. First remember that this is not the native format of the artwork and things do not always show the same. And it has been rasterized for use on the web. Also be aware that once evetything is "set", I do print samples to check my work before putting ink to decal paper. John Hagen --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "John Hagen" <sprinthag@...> wrote: > > Group, > > > > Attached (hopefully) is the Varney version of the OSTUCO Gon. If Don or > someone would print it out and cut out the various sections to see if they > fit the car, I would certainly appreciate it. > > > > Once I am sure the scale is correct I can start printing. Maybe. Depends if > I do include both sets as one. Since none of the decals will work on the > other car, my thought of doing both is kinda moot. The idea was to only > print the extra decals needed to fit the other car but as that has become > the whole set... > > > > Anyway, if I do include both I will have to wait until I can test fit the > Walthers car also. That should be Tuesday but, as usual in today's world, no > guarantees. > > > > Oh yes, the all black artwork should not an area of concern. When printing > with spot colors (the very best way with an Alps printer), all artwork must > be black. The color of the inks used is selected at the time of actual > printing. > > > > John Hagen >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15737	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 1/1/2011
Subject: Re: OSTUCO for Varney [1 Attachment]

Hi John, I wish my camera had fully recharged batteries, so I could take a picture.  Everything fits PERFECTLY!  The ONLY comment I have is that the 1908 under OSTX is a bit on the heavy side compared to the Varney lettering, but otherwise it lines up perfectly according to the Varney car.  I expect that you will add the red color later? However, compared to the prototype, the OSTX and 1908 should be a bit taller and the underline on the 1908 should line up with the line that says LT WT 55600, but I am going to guess that you already know this. Thanks very much and regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: sprinthag@... Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2011 13:58:05 -0600 Subject: [vintageHO] OSTUCO for Varney [1 Attachment]   [Attachment(s) from John Hagen included below] Group,   Attached (hopefully) is the Varney version of the OSTUCO Gon. If Don or someone would print it out and cut out the various sections to see if they fit the car, I would certainly appreciate it.   Once I am sure the scale is correct I can start printing. Maybe. Depends if I do include both sets as one. Since none of the decals will work on the other car, my thought of doing both is kinda moot. The idea was to only print the extra decals needed to fit the other car but as that has become the whole set………   Anyway, if I do include both I will have to wait until I can test fit the Walthers car also. That should be Tuesday but, as usual in today’s world, no guarantees.   Oh yes, the all black artwork should not an area of concern. When printing with spot colors (the very best way with an Alps printer), all artwork must be black. The color of the inks used is selected at the time of actual printing.   John Hagen

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15738	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 1/1/2011
Subject: Re: OSTUCO for Varney

Attachments : varneyostuco1.JPG Hi John, I snagged the undercharged batteries out of the charger and put them in the camera and here is what I got.  It looks GREAT! Here is what your printout looks like cut out and placed onto the car.  Thanks and regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: sprinthag@... Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2011 20:15:12 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Re: OSTUCO for Varney   I just opened the attachment as it comes over the web. I see a couple of problems that I will address before the actual printing. The "1" in 1740 and the whole car number appear overly heavy Also the line above the OSTX seems merged with the stripe above it. First remember that this is not the native format of the artwork and things do not always show the same. And it has been rasterized for use on the web. Also be aware that once evetything is "set", I do print samples to check my work before putting ink to decal paper. John Hagen --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "John Hagen" <sprinthag@...> wrote: > > Group, > > > > Attached (hopefully) is the Varney version of the OSTUCO Gon. If Don or > someone would print it out and cut out the various sections to see if they > fit the car, I would certainly appreciate it. > > > > Once I am sure the scale is correct I can start printing. Maybe. Depends if > I do include both sets as one. Since none of the decals will work on the > other car, my thought of doing both is kinda moot. The idea was to only > print the extra decals needed to fit the other car but as that has become > the whole set... > > > > Anyway, if I do include both I will have to wait until I can test fit the > Walthers car also. That should be Tuesday but, as usual in today's world, no > guarantees. > > > > Oh yes, the all black artwork should not an area of concern. When printing > with spot colors (the very best way with an Alps printer), all artwork must > be black. The color of the inks used is selected at the time of actual > printing. > > > > John Hagen >

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 15739	From: Mike Sloane	Date: 1/1/2011
Subject: Re: OSTUCO for Varney [1 Attachment]

I printed it out, and I can match it up to my existing OSTUCO car on Sunday, unless somebody gets there first. Maybe I can get a close-up shot of both the car and the print together... Mike On 1/1/2011 2:58 PM, John Hagen wrote: > [Attachment(s) <#TopText> from John Hagen included below] > > Group, > > Attached (hopefully) is the Varney version of the OSTUCO Gon. If Don or > someone would print it out and cut out the various sections to see if > they fit the car, I would certainly appreciate it. > > Once I am sure the scale is correct I can start printing. Maybe. Depends > if I do include both sets as one. Since none of the decals will work on > the other car, my thought of doing both is kinda moot. The idea was to > only print the extra decals needed to fit the other car but as that has > become the whole set……… > > Anyway, if I do include both I will have to wait until I can test fit > the Walthers car also. That should be Tuesday but, as usual in today’s > world, no guarantees. > > Oh yes, the all black artwork should not an area of concern. When > printing with spot colors (the very best way with an Alps printer), all > artwork must be black. The color of the inks used is selected at the > time of actual printing. > > John Hagen

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15740	From: John H	Date: 1/1/2011
Subject: Re: OSTUCO for Varney [1 Attachment]

Thanks Vic. Thanks to group owner Don Dellman for his clear photos and dimensions. I was able to scale his photo to full HO size and then draw the artwork to scale. I will be double checking the heavieness of the numbers before printing the decals. This may be a matter of the pdf not being the drawings native format. But, if I need to change I will. This is a simple modification. This set is designed to duplicate the Varney car. The other part of the set is following the prototype and designed for the Walthers 46' gondola. That one is virtually done but I will not put the finishing touches on it until I receive my Walthers car, which should be Tuesday. John Hagen --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> wrote: > > > Hi John, > I wish my camera had fully recharged batteries, so I could take a picture. Everything fits PERFECTLY! The ONLY comment I have is that the 1908 under OSTX is a bit on the heavy side compared to the Varney lettering, but otherwise it lines up perfectly according to the Varney car. I expect that you will add the red color later? > However, compared to the prototype, the OSTX and 1908 should be a bit taller and the underline on the 1908 should line up with the line that says LT WT 55600, but I am going to guess that you already know this. > Thanks very much and regards, > Vic Bitleris > Raleigh, NC > > > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > From: sprinthag@... > Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2011 13:58:05 -0600 > Subject: [vintageHO] OSTUCO for Varney [1 Attachment] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Attachment(s) from John Hagen included below] > > > Group, Attached (hopefully) is the Varney version of the OSTUCO Gon. If Don or someone would print it out and cut out the various sections to see if they fit the car, I would certainly appreciate it. Once I am sure the scale is correct I can start printing. Maybe. Depends if I do include both sets as one. Since none of the decals will work on the other car, my thought of doing both is kinda moot. The idea was to only print the extra decals needed to fit the other car but as that has become the whole set Anyway, if I do include both I will have to wait until I can test fit the Walthers car also. That should be Tuesday but, as usual in today's world, no guarantees. Oh yes, the all black artwork should not an area of concern. When printing with spot colors (the very best way with an Alps printer), all artwork must be black. The color of the inks used is selected at the time of actual printing. John Hagen >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15741	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 1/1/2011
Subject: Re: OSTUCO for Varney [1 Attachment]

On Jan 1, 2011, at 1:58 PM, John Hagen wrote: > [Attachment(s) from John Hagen included below] > > Group, > > Attached (hopefully) is the Varney version of the OSTUCO Gon. If Don > or someone would print it out and cut out the various sections to > see if they fit the car, I would certainly appreciate it. .......... > > Oh yes, the all black artwork should not an area of concern. When > printing with spot colors (the very best way with an Alps printer), > all artwork must be black. The color of the inks used is selected at > the time of actual printing. > John, Very nice work........ I'll continue to regard the 'must be black artwork approach' as Option B, used most often to overlay repeated printings of some colors to blend into shades or intensify the color. My point is moot since the Alps are no longer being made. But I'm going to stick with using the specific Alps colors in a project and letting the printer make it's automatic four spot print passes on it's own, Method A, for most Alps printing. If the alps was still in production, Method A would make it seem less difficult to work with, and a less intimidating printer to a novice. Now if there was only a currently made printer that also had white ink........... Dang! Best to ya, Mike Bauers Milwaukee, Wi

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15742	From: nvrr49@yahoo.com	Date: 1/1/2011
Subject: Train comic book

Attachments : PC260039.jpg PC260037.jpg Is anyone familier with the attached Lincoln and the railroads?  There does not seem to be any date in it.  Other than yellowing from age, the comic book looks in great shape.   Kent Hurley Kansas City, MO Check out my blog at : http://nvrr49.blogspot.com/

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 15743	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 1/1/2011
Subject: Re: Train comic book [2 Attachments]

Interesting. It appears to pre-date ZIP codes, so it has to be from no later than the late 1950s then. Other than that, I have no idea when this might have been made, but it sure would be interesting to find out, and if there were other rail topics covered in other books too. -Steve Neubaum --- On Sat, 1/1/11, nvrr49@... <nvrr49@...> wrote: From: nvrr49@... <nvrr49@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Train comic book [2 Attachments] To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, January 1, 2011, 9:00 PM   Is anyone familier with the attached Lincoln and the railroads?  There does not seem to be any date in it.  Other than yellowing from age, the comic book looks in great shape.   Kent Hurley Kansas City, MO Check out my blog at : http://nvrr49.blogspot.com/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15744	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 1/1/2011
Subject: Eastern Car Works

Took a peek on HOSeeker, nothing. I have (tonight) a new kit, PRR 4-wheel P-70, I think #1032. Not yet sure what I am going to do with it.....nice looking, tho. Any idea on age spread of company? The instructions show a ZIP code, so later than 1963. Thanks. Dave

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15745	From: nvrr49	Date: 1/1/2011
Subject: Re: Train comic book [2 Attachments]

I spoke too soon. Found out on mycomicshop.com that it is from 1959. It seems they published several different comics during the 1950's. Now I may have to put my comic book children (hurleysheroes.com) on the look out for the rest of the set. Kent in KC --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote: > > Interesting. It appears to pre-date ZIP codes, so it has to be from no later than the late 1950s then. Other than that, I have no idea when this might have been made, but it sure would be interesting to find out, and if there were other rail topics covered in other books too. > > -Steve Neubaum > > --- On Sat, 1/1/11, nvrr49@... <nvrr49@...> wrote: > > From: nvrr49@... <nvrr49@...> > Subject: [vintageHO] Train comic book [2 Attachments] > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Date: Saturday, January 1, 2011, 9:00 PM > > > > > > > >   > > > > > > > > > > [Attachment(s) from nvrr49@... included below] > > > > Is anyone familier with the attached Lincoln and the railroads?  There does not seem to be any date in it.  Other than yellowing from age, the comic book looks in great shape. >  Kent Hurley > Kansas City, MO > > > > Check out my blog at : http://nvrr49.blogspot.com/ >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15746	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 1/1/2011
Subject: Re: Eastern Car Works

Ah-ha! 1984 to current. Not necessarily "vintage". I may assemble it.....may even remove the lettering....who knows...... > > Took a peek on HOSeeker, nothing. > I have (tonight) a new kit, PRR 4-wheel P-70, I think #1032. > Not yet sure what I am going to do with it.....nice looking, tho. > > Any idea on age spread of company? > The instructions show a ZIP code, so later than 1963. > > Thanks. > Dave >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15747	From: David J. Starr	Date: 1/1/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers 85' Observation Car - Diagram Needed

On 1/1/2011 2:53 PM, Stephen Neubaum wrote: > > > Group, > > I checked on HO Seeker, and did not find what I am looking for: The > diagram to a metal and wood 85' Heavyweight observation car. > > Does anyone have a copy they could scan in? I have two of these cars, > and need to know where the prism windows go. I got one car that works > mechanically, but was cosmetically pretty ratty. After removing the roof > (Was held down only by a screw through the deck, I pulled out the > damaged celluloid window inserts (No prism windows - all clear), and > have replaced this. I got tons of prism window inserts, but need to know > what windows used them... > > Also, upon checking again, there is no 85' dining car diagram, same > problem: Where do the prism windows go on that car? > > Any help is most appreicated! Been spending the day listening to my 78 > RPM records and finally tackling fixing up a bunch of Walthers cars that > needed repairs. > > -Steve Neubaum > > > The prism window glass goes in the rest room windows, for privacy. There is a rest room at each end of the car, one for ladies, one for gentlemen. The rest room only occupies one side of the car. So you want one piece of prism glass in the end window of each side. -- David J. Starr Blog: http://www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15748	From: Rick Jones	Date: 1/1/2011
Subject: Re: Train comic book [2 Attachments]

On 1/1/2011 9:00 PM, nvrr49@... wrote: > [Attachment(s) <#TopText> from nvrr49@... included below] > > Is anyone familier with the attached Lincoln and the railroads? There > does not seem to be any date in it. Other than yellowing from age, the > comic book looks in great shape. That looks very familiar. I think I may have had one in my youthful days. Can't tell you anything more about it though. -- Rick Jones Why didn't Noah just swat those two mosquitoes?

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15749	From: Larry	Date: 1/1/2011
Subject: Re: Train comic book [2 Attachments]

Kent:   You trimmed off the date on the second photo, it is just to the left. Each publication has print run information such as the date and quantity of the run (for example, “3-60-2,000M – G.B.P.” indicates that printing date was March of 1960, 2 million copies and the printer or manufacturer identification). All of these publications are noted as “Printed in the U.S.A.”, as would have been standard practice at the time.   Larry     --- On Sat, 1/1/11, nvrr49@... <nvrr49@...> wrote: From: nvrr49@... <nvrr49@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Train comic book [2 Attachments] To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, January 1, 2011, 9:00 PM [Attachment(s) from nvrr49@... included below] Is anyone familier with the attached Lincoln and the railroads?  There does not seem to be any date in it.  Other than yellowing from age, the comic book looks in great shape.   Kent Hurley Kansas City, MO Check out my blog at : http://nvrr49.blogspot.com/ Attachment(s) from nvrr49@... 2 of 2 Photo(s) PC260037.jpg PC260039.jpg

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15750	From: Larry	Date: 1/1/2011
Subject: Re: Train comic book [2 Attachments]

Attachments : CD Flyer 02 2010.pdf Kent:   One of the comic books I wrote about in my eBook "Publications of the AAR: The Comic Book Premiums - ISBN 978-0-9844006-5-2".   Larry --- On Sat, 1/1/11, nvrr49@... <nvrr49@...> wrote: From: nvrr49@... <nvrr49@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Train comic book [2 Attachments] To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, January 1, 2011, 9:00 PM [Attachment(s) from nvrr49@... included below] Is anyone familier with the attached Lincoln and the railroads?  There does not seem to be any date in it.  Other than yellowing from age, the comic book looks in great shape.   Kent Hurley Kansas City, MO Check out my blog at : http://nvrr49.blogspot.com/ Attachment(s) from nvrr49@... 2 of 2 Photo(s) PC260037.jpg PC260039.jpg

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 15751	From: Sam	Date: 1/1/2011
Subject: Re: Eastern Car Works

The "Eastern Car Works" cars were formerly "E&B Valley Railroad Co." Sam --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "trainsnwrcs" <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: > > > Ah-ha! > 1984 to current. > Not necessarily "vintage". > I may assemble it.....may even remove the lettering....who knows...... > > > > > > Took a peek on HOSeeker, nothing. > > I have (tonight) a new kit, PRR 4-wheel P-70, I think #1032. > > Not yet sure what I am going to do with it.....nice looking, tho. > > > > Any idea on age spread of company? > > The instructions show a ZIP code, so later than 1963. > > > > Thanks. > > Dave > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15752	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 1/2/2011
Subject: Re: Train comic book

The long out of production AHM/Rivarossi HO Lincoln's coach. I think it was from the mid 1960's Best to ya, Mike Bauers Milwaukee, Wi On Jan 1, 2011, at 10:09 PM, Rick Jones wrote: > On 1/1/2011 9:00 PM, nvrr49@... wrote: >> [Attachment(s) <#TopText> from nvrr49@... included below] >> >> Is anyone familier with the attached Lincoln and the railroads? There >> does not seem to be any date in it. Other than yellowing from age, >> the >> comic book looks in great shape. > > That looks very familiar. I think I may have had one in my youthful > days. Can't tell you anything more about it though.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15753	From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com	Date: 1/2/2011
Subject: New file uploaded to vintageHO

Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the vintageHO group. File : /Cannonball Car Shops /Cannonball Car Shops Conversion Kit listing.xls Uploaded by : nvrr49 <nvrr49@...> Description : Cannonball Car Shops Conversion Kit listing You can access this file at the URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/files/Cannonball%20Car%20Shops%20/Cannonball%20Car%20Shops%20Conversion%20Kit%20listing.xls To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/groups/original/members/web/index.html Regards, nvrr49 <nvrr49@...>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15754	From: John Hagen	Date: 1/2/2011
Subject: OSTUCO for Walthers

Attachments : OSTUCO_Wal_01.pdf First, thanks to Vic for posting the photo of the Varney car with the artwork.   I have attached the Walthers car artwork. I am fairly certain it will work but will first try it on my Walthers gon when it arrives.   Also, I did lighten the weight of the numbers on this set. If it looks ok I’ll transfer them to the Varney set.   John Hagen

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 15755	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/3/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers 85' Observation Car - Diagram Needed

Not sure exactly which kits you have but I have the sheets for the 7801 4 Compartment Observation and the 7815 Pennsy Diner. My scanner is down, but I'll scan them at work today and send them along tonight if they'll help. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephen Neubaum" <computersystemrebuild@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2011 1:53 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Walthers 85' Observation Car - Diagram Needed > Group, > > I checked on HO Seeker, and did not find what I am looking for: The > diagram to a metal and wood 85' Heavyweight observation car. > > Does anyone have a copy they could scan in? I have two of these cars, and > need to know where the prism windows go. I got one car that works > mechanically, but was cosmetically pretty ratty. After removing the roof > (Was held down only by a screw through the deck, I pulled out the damaged > celluloid window inserts (No prism windows - all clear), and have replaced > this. I got tons of prism window inserts, but need to know what windows > used them... > > Also, upon checking again, there is no 85' dining car diagram, same > problem: Where do the prism windows go on that car? > > Any help is most appreicated! Been spending the day listening to my 78 RPM > records and finally tackling fixing up a bunch of Walthers cars that > needed repairs. > > -Steve Neubaum >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15756	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 1/3/2011
Subject: Re: OSTUCO for Walthers [1 Attachment]

Hi John, It looks really good, with the exception of the 1 in 1908.  It looks a bit heavy when I looked at the pdf. Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: sprinthag@... Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2011 20:15:50 -0600 Subject: [vintageHO] OSTUCO for Walthers [1 Attachment]   [Attachment(s) from John Hagen included below] First, thanks to Vic for posting the photo of the Varney car with the artwork.   I have attached the Walthers car artwork. I am fairly certain it will work but will first try it on my Walthers gon when it arrives.   Also, I did lighten the weight of the numbers on this set. If it looks ok I’ll transfer them to the Varney set.   John Hagen

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15757	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 1/3/2011
Subject: Re: OSTUCO for Walthers

Maybe it's my eyesight, but to me, the outline of the State of Ohio is too wide. Does anyone else see it? Is 'the master' also too wide? On Mon, Jan 3, 2011 at 1:04 PM, Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> wrote:   Hi John, It looks really good, with the exception of the 1 in 1908.  It looks a bit heavy when I looked at the pdf. Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: sprinthag@... Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2011 20:15:50 -0600 Subject: [vintageHO] OSTUCO for Walthers [1 Attachment]   [Attachment(s) from John Hagen included below] First, thanks to Vic for posting the photo of the Varney car with the artwork.   I have attached the Walthers car artwork. I am fairly certain it will work but will first try it on my Walthers gon when it arrives.   Also, I did lighten the weight of the numbers on this set. If it looks ok I’ll transfer them to the Varney set.   John Hagen   -- Regards, Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15758	From: corlissbs@aol.com	Date: 1/3/2011
Subject: Re: OSTUCO for Walthers [1 Attachment]

Should the car be yellow or gray?   Brad Smith

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15759	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 1/3/2011
Subject: Re: OSTUCO for Walthers

According to the prototype information that I have, it should be Lemon Yellow with Red Oxide underbody and trucks.  I have never heard of a gray prototype OSTUCO car, but have seen some AHM (Rivarossi) cars in a gray color. Regards, Vic Bitleris Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: corlissbs@... Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2011 12:37:10 -0500 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] OSTUCO for Walthers   Should the car be yellow or gray?   Brad Smith

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15760	From: toytrain13	Date: 1/3/2011
Subject: American Beauty coupler swing hangers

Hello- I'm would like to purchase some American Beauty coupler swing hangers. These are the stamped metal items that came in American Beauty passenger car kits. I use these on Blue Line as well, and I've exhausted my modest supply. I'd be willing to pay a reasonable amount for these- can anyone help me? Thanks- Richard White

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15761	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 1/3/2011
Subject: Re: American Beauty coupler swing hangers

Have lots of 'em. How many do you need?   Art W   In a message dated 1/3/2011 4:30:30 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, toytrain13@... writes: Hello- I'm would like to purchase some American Beauty coupler swing hangers. These are the stamped metal items that came in American Beauty passenger car kits. I use these on Blue Line as well, and I've exhausted my modest supply. I'd be willing to pay a reasonable amount for these- can anyone help me? Thanks- Richard White ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings:     Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join     (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email:     vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com     vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:     vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15762	From: Richard White	Date: 1/3/2011
Subject: Re: American Beauty coupler swing hangers

Hi Art- That was a quick reply! I could use ten pair (or what you can spare). I am building Blue Line and American Beauty cars all the time and I would conceivably buy all you have. What would you like for these? Thanks for your help-  Richard  To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: luvprr@... Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2011 16:37:03 -0500 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] American Beauty coupler swing hangers   Have lots of 'em. How many do you need?   Art W   In a message dated 1/3/2011 4:30:30 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, toytrain13@... writes: Hello- I'm would like to purchase some American Beauty coupler swing hangers. These are the stamped metal items that came in American Beauty passenger car kits. I use these on Blue Line as well, and I've exhausted my modest supply. I'd be willing to pay a reasonable amount for these- can anyone help me? Thanks- Richard White ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings:     Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join     (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email:     vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com     vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:     vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15763	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 1/3/2011
Subject: Re: American Beauty coupler swing hangers

Richard, Hate to discuss business in a public forum. Send me your email address.   Art W luvprr@...   In a message dated 1/3/2011 4:59:37 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, toytrain13@... writes: Hi Art- That was a quick reply! I could use ten pair (or what you can spare). I am building Blue Line and American Beauty cars all the time and I would conceivably buy all you have. What would you like for these? Thanks for your help-  Richard  To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: luvprr@... Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2011 16:37:03 -0500 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] American Beauty coupler swing hangers   Have lots of 'em. How many do you need?   Art W   In a message dated 1/3/2011 4:30:30 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, toytrain13@... writes: Hello- I'm would like to purchase some American Beauty coupler swing hangers. These are the stamped metal items that came in American Beauty passenger car kits. I use these on Blue Line as well, and I've exhausted my modest supply. I'd be willing to pay a reasonable amount for these- can anyone help me? Thanks- Richard White ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings:     Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join     (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email:     vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com   &n bsp; vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:     vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15764	From: al45390	Date: 1/3/2011
Subject: Re: American Beauty cars

Richard, You wrote, "I am building Blue Line and American Beauty cars all the time ..." Do you drill the Am Beauty sides for handrails? If so, do you use a jig of some sort? I have a bunch I would like to work on, but I don't want to mar the sides. Thanks, Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15765	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 1/3/2011
Subject: Re: American Beauty cars

Walter, I don't want to answer for Richard, but I have done at least 8 American Beauty cars with all holes drilled for handrails. I have to chuckle when I read the instructions about being careful if you choose to drill the holes as "you may become frustrated and break the #15 drill bits" (or words to that effect). You're going to break them by the dozen if you don't do the following: the solid steel sides require a drill press (not a hand-held drill) at lowest speeds and use gear cutting oil (available at Sears stores and hardware stores). Turn the sides over so that the painted sides are against a wooden block so as not to mar them and use an awl or punch or similar tool to make a slight indentation where you want to drill on the unpainted side-- otherwise the drill bit will bend and tend to travel all over the smooth steel--even with a drill press. The cutting oil is essential to keep the drill bit from breaking and will preserve it for use more than once. It cools the work and allows the shavings to exit the hole without seizing the drill bit and breaking it. I have drilled in the neighborhood of 75 holes and only broke 2 drill bits while using 3 or 4 more max (1 of them was experimenting without the oil--it lasted 1 time). As far as the spacing between holes it's a dicey thing to get exact, but you could make a jig for that purpose by pre-drilling a piece of thin brass with the correct spacing. If you use paper or card stock the drilling or punching with the awl through those holes will gradually increase the size of the holes in the jig and thus the space between the holes, and that is self-defeating. Finally, use magnification of some kind while observing that the drill bit actually begins drilling in the pre-marked indentation. You have to eyeball it in. It requires a very steady hand and eye coordination to guide the work when beginning to drill, and plenty of patience and a slight clenching of the teeth seems to help too. Once you do a few, things begin to go easier. This is a procedure that is not for the faint of heart in any case as the drill bits are extremely fragile as you probably know. Good luck with it. I can't imagine that very many modelers over the years put many handrails on. It's too bad because the handrails do help greatly to make these American Beauty cars beautiful.   Art W   In a message dated 1/3/2011 7:21:03 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, bayerw2@... writes: Richard, You wrote, "I am building Blue Line and American Beauty cars all the time ..." Do you drill the Am Beauty sides for handrails? If so, do you use a jig of some sort? I have a bunch I would like to work on, but I don't want to mar the sides. Thanks, Walter ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings:     Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join     (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email:     vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com     vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:     vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15766	From: Richard White	Date: 1/3/2011
Subject: Re: American Beauty cars

Hi Walter- Yes I drill the sides for handrails. I use a Micro-Mark mini-drill press, without which I could not accomplish the drilling accurately. I have made a little jig out of a small rectangular piece of thin brass. I made it so that the two holes for the handrail ends (about 0.020" dia. or so) are correctly aligned on the car side when the side and bottom edges of the jig are even with the car side and bottom edge. Then I clamp the jig into place with a small clamp, place the whole side on a block of wood, and drill through the jig and into the car side, using the drill press. This goes quite rapidly once you get used to the set up. I use 0.018" stainless steel wire for the handrails (as the handrails on streamlined cars were generally stainless steel). I use 0.018" steel music wire (that I've blackened with gun blue) for the roof hand grabs. The handrails could be 0.020" or so, as it suits you. I like the 0.018", which I order from Small Parts, Inc., online. Another hint for American Beauty cars: I remove the center sill from the car bottom 1-7/16" from each car end, so that the car bottom is flush in those areas. This allows the coupler swing hangers and brackets (and the couplers) to be mounted at the correct height. Otherwise you have to boost the whole car up at the trucks to get the correct coupler height. I don't use the diecast truck bolsters either. Since I've removed 1-7/16" of center sill, and the trucks mount at 1-9/16" from the end of the car, I just drill a hole at 1-9/16", place a 1/16" thick plastic or rubber washer there, and screw the trucks directly to the center sill. Works great! I hope all this is helpful! Let me know how it goes, or email me if you need further help. I can send a photo of the coupler setup. I love the American Beauty cars. I have about eight each of Illinois Central and Chicago Northwestern, and a couple of New York Central. Regards- Richard    To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: bayerw2@... Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2011 00:20:52 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Re: American Beauty cars   Richard, You wrote, "I am building Blue Line and American Beauty cars all the time ..." Do you drill the Am Beauty sides for handrails? If so, do you use a jig of some sort? I have a bunch I would like to work on, but I don't want to mar the sides. Thanks, Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15767	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 1/3/2011
Subject: Re: American Beauty cars

Useful tips. Thank you Art W. I will keep a few hard copies as well as the e-text for my use. Walter On Mon, Jan 3, 2011 at 9:47 PM, <luvprr@...> wrote:   Walter, I don't want to answer for Richard, but I have done at least 8 American Beauty cars with all holes drilled for handrails. I have to chuckle when I read the instructions about being careful if you choose to drill the holes as "you may become frustrated and break the #15 drill bits" (or words to that effect). You're going to break them by the dozen if you don't do the following: the solid steel sides require a drill press (not a hand-held drill) at lowest speeds and use gear cutting oil (available at Sears stores and hardware stores). Turn the sides over so that the painted sides are against a wooden block so as not to mar them and use an awl or punch or similar tool to make a slight indentation where you want to drill on the unpainted side-- otherwise the drill bit will bend and tend to travel all over the smooth steel--even with a drill press. The cutting oil is essential to keep the drill bit from breaking and will preserve it for use more than once. It cools the work and allows the shavings to exit the hole without seizing the drill bit and breaking it. I have drilled in the neighborhood of 75 holes and only broke 2 drill bits while using 3 or 4 more max (1 of them was experimenting without the oil--it lasted 1 time). As far as the spacing between holes it's a dicey thing to get exact, but you could make a jig for that purpose by pre-drilling a piece of thin brass with the correct spacing. If you use paper or card stock the drilling or punching with the awl through those holes will gradually increase the size of the holes in the jig and thus the space between the holes, and that is self-defeating. Finally, use magnification of some kind while observing that the drill bit actually begins drilling in the pre-marked indentation. You have to eyeball it in. It requires a very steady hand and eye coordination to guide the work when beginning to drill, and plenty of patience and a slight clenching of the teeth seems to help too. Once you do a few, things begin to go easier. This is a procedure that is not for the faint of heart in any case as the drill bits are extremely fragile as you probably know. Good luck with it. I can't imagine that very many modelers over the years put many handrails on. It's too bad because the handrails do help greatly to make these American Beauty cars beautiful.   Art W   In a message dated 1/3/2011 7:21:03 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, bayerw2@... writes: Richard, You wrote, "I am building Blue Line and American Beauty cars all the time ..." Do you drill the Am Beauty sides for handrails? If so, do you use a jig of some sort? I have a bunch I would like to work on, but I don't want to mar the sides. Thanks, Walter ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings:     Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join     (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email:     vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com     vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:     vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Regards, Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15768	From: 69_Mustang_Man	Date: 1/4/2011
Subject: 1940's Mantua Reading Locomotive Decal Color

Hi Guys, Looking to restore some of my early pre-war & post-war Mantua Atlantics & Pacifics and I was planning on lettering some of them for Reading. I do not know whether to use white, gold or yellow decals? Does anyone know how the original Mantuas were lettered? The old images I see are black and white, which provide no reference here. Thanks, Sean

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15769	From: David J. Starr	Date: 1/4/2011
Subject: Re: American Beauty cars

On 1/3/2011 8:47 PM, luvprr@... wrote: > > > Walter, > I don't want to answer for Richard, but I have done at least 8 American > Beauty cars with all holes drilled for handrails. I have to chuckle when > I read the instructions about being careful if you choose to drill the > holes as "you may become frustrated and break the #15 drill bits" (or > words to that effect). You're going to break them by the dozen if you > don't do the following: the solid steel sides require a drill press (not > a hand-held drill) at lowest speeds and use /_gear cutting oil_/ > (available at Sears stores and hardware stores). Turn the sides over so > that the painted sides are against a wooden block so as not to mar them > and use an awl or punch or similar tool to make a slight indentation > where you want to drill on the unpainted side-- otherwise the drill bit > will bend and tend to travel all over the smooth steel--even with a > drill press. The cutting oil is essential to keep the drill bit from > breaking and will preserve it for use more than once. It cools the work > and allows the shavings to exit the hole without seizing the drill bit > and breaking it. I have drilled in the neighborhood of 75 holes and only > broke 2 drill bits while using 3 or 4 more max (1 of them was > experimenting without the oil--it lasted 1 time). As far as the spacing > between holes it's a dicey thing to get exact, but you could make a jig > for that purpose by pre-drilling a piece of thin brass with the correct > spacing. If you use paper or card stock the drilling or punching with > the awl through those holes will gradually increase the size of the > holes in the jig and thus the space between the holes, and that is > self-defeating. Finally, use magnification of some kind while observing > that the drill bit actually begins drilling in the pre-marked > indentation. You have to eyeball it in. It requires a very steady hand > and eye coordination to guide the work when beginning to drill, and > plenty of patience and a slight clenching of the teeth seems to help > too. Once you do a few, things begin to go easier. This is a procedure > that is not for the faint of heart in any case as the drill bits are > extremely fragile as you probably know. Good luck with it. I can't > imagine that very many modelers over the years put many handrails on. > It's too bad because the handrails do help greatly to make these > American Beauty cars beautiful. > Art W I assume the drill bit you are speaking of is actually a #75 rather than an #15. Funny. I never drill under power with bits that small. Even the slowest speed is too fast, and the power drills have enough torque to snap the bit. I always drill holes that size by hand with a pin vise. Clamp the work, and go slowly. If the bit encounters resistance, back off. Art's remarks about lubrication are right on. Even a drop of plain old 3-in-1 oil is very helpful. Center punching the hole is crucial. Without a punch mark to guide the bit, the bit skids around on the sheet metal and the hole starts just about anywhere. For #75 bits a regular shop center punch is too big. I use an awl or a scribe and just press down hard with a hand, no hammer required. If you make a template to get the hole spacing right, use the template to guide the centerpunch rather than the drill bit. Back in the day, building the old Walthers passenger cars, the kind with stamped metal sides and wood roof & floor, I was always able to drill for handrails with out much drill breakage. I cannot claim I never broke a #75 drill bit, but I didn't break them all that often. So, those of you lacking a drill press can go ahead,with just a pin vise and drill for success. -- David J. Starr Blog: http://www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15770	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 1/4/2011
Subject: Re: American Beauty cars

David, You're right about the #75 drill bit. I was trying to remember what the directions said and misquoted them. However, regarding using a pin vise to drill the holes, if you can drill through that solid steel by hand you're a better man than most of us--or have an infinite amount of time. The steel of the American Beauty cars is extremely hard. I would drill holes that small by hand myself if the material wasn't so hard and have done so with softer metals. Also, to get a deep enough hole with an awl or similar tool in the steel for a #75 drill bit to bite into that metal well enough to continue by hand would make me wonder what would happen to the resulting paint on the opposite side where the resulting pimple of metal would be. In any case I'm not sure what the advantage would be to hand-drill them as a small drill press (at slowest speed) does do a faster and satisfactory job with the gear cutting oil. Whatever works for ya I guess. . . .   Art W   In a message dated 1/4/2011 10:48:49 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, dstarrboston@... writes: On 1/3/2011 8:47 PM, luvprr@... wrote: > > > Walter, > I don't want to answer for Richard, but I have done at least 8 American > Beauty cars with all holes drilled for handrails. I have to chuckle when > I read the instructions about being careful if you choose to drill the > holes as "you may become frustrated and break the #15 drill bits" (or > words to that effect). You're going to break them by the dozen if you > don't do the following: the solid steel sides require a drill press (not > a hand-held drill) at lowest speeds and use /_gear cutting oil_/ > (available at Sears stores and hardware stores). Turn the sides over so > that the painted sides are against a wooden block so as not to mar them > and use an awl or punch or similar tool to make a slight indentation > where you want to drill on the unpainted side-- otherwise the drill bit > will bend and tend to travel all over the smooth steel--even with a > drill press. The cutting oil is essential to keep the drill bit from > breaking and will preserve it for use more than once. It cools the work > and allows the shavings to exit the hole without seizing the drill bit > and breaking it. I have drilled in the neighborhood of 75 holes and only > broke 2 drill bits while using 3 or 4 more max (1 of them was > experimenting without the oil--it lasted 1 time). As far as the spacing > between holes it's a dicey thing to get exact, but you could make a jig > for that purpose by pre-drilling a piece of thin brass with the correct > spacing. If you use paper or card stock the drilling or punching with > the awl through those holes will gradually increase the size of the > holes in the jig and thus the space between the holes, and that is > self-defeating. Finally, use magnification of some kind while observing > that the drill bit actually begins drilling in the pre-marked > indentation. You have to eyeball it in. It requires a very steady hand > and eye coordination to guide the work when beginning to drill, and > plenty of patience and a slight clenching of the teeth seems to help > too. Once you do a few, things begin to go easier. This is a procedure > that is not for the faint of heart in any case as the drill bits are > extremely fragile as you probably know. Good luck with it. I can't > imagine that very many modelers over the years put many handrails on. > It's too bad because the handrails do help greatly to make these > American Beauty cars beautiful. > Art W I assume the drill bit you are speaking of is actually a #75 rather than an #15. Funny.  I never drill under power with bits that small.  Even the slowest speed is too fast, and the power drills have enough torque to snap the bit.    I always drill holes that size by hand with a pin vise.  Clamp the work, and go slowly.  If the bit encounters resistance, back off.  Art's remarks about lubrication are right on.  Even a drop of plain old 3-in-1 oil is very helpful.    Center punching the hole is crucial.  Without a punch mark to guide the bit, the bit skids around on the sheet metal and the hole starts just about anywhere.  For #75 bits a regular shop center punch is too big.  I use an awl or a scribe and just press down hard with a hand, no hammer required.    If you make a template to get the hole spacing right, use the template to guide the centerpunch rather than the drill bit.    Back in the day, building the old Walthers passenger cars, the kind with stamped metal sides and wood roof & floor, I was always able to drill for handrails with out much drill breakage.  I cannot claim I never broke a #75 drill bit, but I didn't break them all that often.    So, those of you lacking a drill press can go ahead,with just a pin vise and drill for success. -- David J. Starr Blog:  http://www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings:     Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join     (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email:     vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com     vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:     vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15771	From: Richard White	Date: 1/4/2011
Subject: Re: American Beauty cars

Hi Art and David- I've had no trouble drilling holes with my Micro-Mark drill press with bits down to #76. (As I mentioned in my post, I use 0.018 stainless wire for car side handrails and 0.018 music wire for the roof grabs). The drill won't chuck any smaller ones. I've had no trouble with breakage as long as I'm centered on the hole. With the brass jig clamped (or taped) into place there's no problem with the bit "wandering." No center punching is necessary. And since the American Beauty car sides are rather soft steel, I haven't needed to use cutting oil (but it doesn't hurt, for sure). I should add that in locations where there is no wood backing, I glue a small piece of stripwood behind the holes, so that the wire handrail can be positioned a realistic distance from the car side.  Regards- Richard White  To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: dstarrboston@... Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2011 10:48:36 -0500 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: American Beauty cars   On 1/3/2011 8:47 PM, luvprr@... wrote: > > > Walter, > I don't want to answer for Richard, but I have done at least 8 American > Beauty cars with all holes drilled for handrails. I have to chuckle when > I read the instructions about being careful if you choose to drill the > holes as "you may become frustrated and break the #15 drill bits" (or > words to that effect). You're going to break them by the dozen if you > don't do the following: the solid steel sides require a drill press (not > a hand-held drill) at lowest speeds and use /_gear cutting oil_/ > (available at Sears stores and hardware stores). Turn the sides over so > that the painted sides are against a wooden block so as not to mar them > and use an awl or punch or similar tool to make a slight indentation > where you want to drill on the unpainted side-- otherwise the drill bit > will bend and tend to travel all over the smooth steel--even with a > drill press. The cutting oil is essential to keep the drill bit from > breaking and will preserve it for use more than once. It cools the work > and allows the shavings to exit the hole without seizing the drill bit > and breaking it. I have drilled in the neighborhood of 75 holes and only > broke 2 drill bits while using 3 or 4 more max (1 of them was > experimenting without the oil--it lasted 1 time). As far as the spacing > between holes it's a dicey thing to get exact, but you could make a jig > for that purpose by pre-drilling a piece of thin brass with the correct > spacing. If you use paper or card stock the drilling or punching with > the awl through those holes will gradually increase the size of the > holes in the jig and thus the space between the holes, and that is > self-defeating. Finally, use magnification of some kind while observing > that the drill bit actually begins drilling in the pre-marked > indentation. You have to eyeball it in. It requires a very steady hand > and eye coordination to guide the work when beginning to drill, and > plenty of patience and a slight clenching of the teeth seems to help > too. Once you do a few, things begin to go easier. This is a procedure > that is not for the faint of heart in any case as the drill bits are > extremely fragile as you probably know. Good luck with it. I can't > imagine that very many modelers over the years put many handrails on. > It's too bad because the handrails do help greatly to make these > American Beauty cars beautiful. > Art W I assume the drill bit you are speaking of is actually a #75 rather than an #15. Funny. I never drill under power with bits that small. Even the slowest speed is too fast, and the power drills have enough torque to snap the bit. I always drill holes that size by hand with a pin vise. Clamp the work, and go slowly. If the bit encounters resistance, back off. Art's remarks about lubrication are right on. Even a drop of plain old 3-in-1 oil is very helpful. Center punching the hole is crucial. Without a punch mark to guide the bit, the bit skids around on the sheet metal and the hole starts just about anywhere. For #75 bits a regular shop center punch is too big. I use an awl or a scribe and just press down hard with a hand, no hammer required. If you make a template to get the hole spacing right, use the template to guide the centerpunch rather than the drill bit. Back in the day, building the old Walthers passenger cars, the kind with stamped metal sides and wood roof & floor, I was always able to drill for handrails with out much drill breakage. I cannot claim I never broke a #75 drill bit, but I didn't break them all that often. So, those of you lacking a drill press can go ahead,with just a pin vise and drill for success. -- David J. Starr Blog: http://www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15772	From: jay matz	Date: 1/4/2011
Subject: Re: 1940's Mantua Reading Locomotive Decal Color

Stean Gold lettering Jay

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15773	From: erieberk	Date: 1/4/2011
Subject: Re: 1940's Mantua Reading Locomotive Decal Color

Hi Sean, At first, I was going to recommend you contact Yardbird Trains, but then I see you already went up there with your question and received one reply so far. Checking my Mantua catalogs, starting with the First Edition for that year and included with the 1945 catalog, the rear cover is in color and is a photo of a Mantua train of engine, seven freight cars and a bobber caboose -- similiar to the 1941 & 1940 catalog's black & white rear covers. The engine is lettered in white, and while it's a Consolidation (Reading), I think it's reasonable to assume that Mantua used the same decals with all three of their brass engines. I have about half a dozen Pacifics and a couple of Atlantics I've acquired through the years, some built, but I don't believe they're lettered, or at least I don't recall them as such. I will dig them out and check on them though -- then get back to you if I see lettering of any different color. Ray F.W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "69_Mustang_Man" <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > Hi Guys, > > Looking to restore some of my early pre-war & post-war Mantua Atlantics & Pacifics and I was planning on lettering some of them for Reading. I do not know whether to use white, gold or yellow decals? Does anyone know how the original Mantuas were lettered? > > The old images I see are black and white, which provide no reference here. > > Thanks, > Sean >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15774	From: erieberk	Date: 1/4/2011
Subject: Re: 1940's Mantua Reading Locomotive Decal Color

Sean, I rearranged some wording as I was composing the last post, and I now see that I left out the year of the Mantua catalog of that First Edition which depicts the color photo of the train model. The color rear covers of the catalogs started in 1942. Ray F.W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "erieberk" <erieberk@...> wrote: > > > > Hi Sean, > > At first, I was going to recommend you contact Yardbird Trains, but then I see you already went up there with your question and received one reply so far. Checking my Mantua catalogs, starting with the First Edition for that year and included with the 1945 catalog, the rear cover is in color and is a photo of a Mantua train of engine, seven freight cars and a bobber caboose -- similiar to the 1941 & 1940 catalog's black & white rear covers. The engine is lettered in white, and while it's a Consolidation (Reading), I think it's reasonable to assume that Mantua used the same decals with all three of their brass engines. I have about half a dozen Pacifics and a couple of Atlantics I've acquired through the years, some built, but I don't believe they're lettered, or at least I don't recall them as such. I will dig them out and check on them though -- then get back to you if I see lettering of any different color. > > Ray F.W. > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "69_Mustang_Man" <a69mustang4me@> wrote: > > > > Hi Guys, > > > > Looking to restore some of my early pre-war & post-war Mantua Atlantics & Pacifics and I was planning on lettering some of them for Reading. I do not know whether to use white, gold or yellow decals? Does anyone know how the original Mantuas were lettered? > > > > The old images I see are black and white, which provide no reference here. > > > > Thanks, > > Sean > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15775	From: mrkeitho	Date: 1/4/2011
Subject: Ambroid Painted sides, How do I match color?

Hi all, I am currently finishing up an old Ambroid S gauge ACL ventilated watermelon car kit, SB-5. The instructions read, "paint the entire car boxcar red". I bought a bottle of Floquil boxcar red paint today and it does not match the color of the Ambroid pre-painted – lettered sides. Can anyone suggest what to do regarding the colors not matching? This is only my second wood kit, my first was an O scale Westbrook reefer. I want to practice on larger kits before starting my HO kits, this is why I am asking this group for help. Thank you, Keith O. Phx, AZ

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15776	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 1/4/2011
Subject: Re: 1940's Mantua Reading Locomotive Decal Color

Thanks Ray and everyone!!   I think I have settled upon Yellow... but we will see.   I am excited to finally have the complete line of the larger pre-war mantua locomotives. Want to do them up right!   Sean   1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! From: erieberk <erieberk@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, January 4, 2011 12:04:20 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: 1940's Mantua Reading Locomotive Decal Color   Sean, I rearranged some wording as I was composing the last post, and I now see that I left out the year of the Mantua catalog of that First Edition which depicts the color photo of the train model. The color rear covers of the catalogs started in 1942. Ray F.W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "erieberk" <erieberk@...> wrote: > > > > Hi Sean, > > At first, I was going to recommend you contact Yardbird Trains, but then I see you already went up there with your question and received one reply so far. Checking my Mantua catalogs, starting with the First Edition for that year and included with the 1945 catalog, the rear cover is in color and is a photo of a Mantua train of engine, seven freight cars and a bobber caboose -- similiar to the 1941 & 1940 catalog's black & white rear covers. The engine is lettered in white, and while it's a Consolidation (Reading), I think it's reasonable to assume that Mantua used the same decals with all three of their brass engines. I have about half a dozen Pacifics and a couple of Atlantics I've acquired through the years, some built, but I don't believe they're lettered, or at least I don't recall them as such. I will dig them out and check on them though -- then get back to you if I see lettering of any different color. > > Ray F.W. > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "69_Mustang_Man" <a69mustang4me@> wrote: > > > > Hi Guys, > > > > Looking to restore some of my early pre-war & post-war Mantua Atlantics & Pacifics and I was planning on lettering some of them for Reading. I do not know whether to use white, gold or yellow decals? Does anyone know how the original Mantuas were lettered? > > > > The old images I see are black and white, which provide no reference here. > > > > Thanks, > > Sean > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15777	From: Dennis Thompson	Date: 1/4/2011
Subject: Re: 1940's Mantua Reading Locomotive Decal Color

Congratulations ! Would love to see photos of your Mantua locomotive collection. Happy New Year, Dennis At 08:11 PM 1/4/2011, you wrote: Thanks Ray and everyone!!   I think I have settled upon Yellow... but we will see.   I am excited to finally have the complete line of the larger pre-war mantua locomotives. Want to do them up right!   Sean   1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! From: erieberk <erieberk@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, January 4, 2011 12:04:20 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: 1940's Mantua Reading Locomotive Decal Color   Sean, I rearranged some wording as I was composing the last post, and I now see that I left out the year of the Mantua catalog of that First Edition which depicts the color photo of the train model. The color rear covers of the catalogs started in 1942. Ray F.W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com , "erieberk" <erieberk@...> wrote: > > > > Hi Sean, > > At first, I was going to recommend you contact Yardbird Trains, but then I see you already went up there with your question and received one reply so far. Checking my Mantua catalogs, starting with the First Edition for that year and included with the 1945 catalog, the rear cover is in color and is a photo of a Mantua train of engine, seven freight cars and a bobber caboose -- similiar to the 1941 & 1940 catalog's black & white rear covers. The engine is lettered in white, and while it's a Consolidation (Reading), I think it's reasonable to assume that Mantua used the same decals with all three of their brass engines. I have about half a dozen Pacifics and a couple of Atlantics I've acquired through the years, some built, but I don't believe they're lettered, or at least I don't recall them as such. I will dig them out and check on them though -- then get back to you if I see lettering of any different color. > > Ray F.W. > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com , "69_Mustang_Man" <a69mustang4me@> wrote: > > > > Hi Guys, > > > > Looking to restore some of my early pre-war & post-war Mantua Atlantics & Pacifics and I was planning on lettering some of them for Reading. I do not know whether to use white, gold or yellow decals? Does anyone know how the original Mantuas were lettered? > > > > The old images I see are black and white, which provide no reference here. > > > > Thanks, > > Sean > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15778	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 1/5/2011
Subject: Re: Ambroid Painted sides, How do I match color?

Phx,   Love to know the answer to that one myself. I do have some vintage Globe boxcar kits with their shade of boxcar red that I needed to touch up. The directions in the kits stated what paint company's color they used back then. I checked with back articles of Model Railroader but they were of no help in matching colors of that now defunct company. I was distraught to the point where I finally bit the bullet and tried mixing some shades of Floquil reds. Danged if I didn't come up with virtually an exact match! Using a mix of Floquil boxcar red, oxide, and caboose red I was able to do so. I have no idea what boxcar red Ambroid used, but there is usually someone on this site that has an answer to construction and paint problems of all types. I suspect that you will have to use a fair amount of paint in experimenting to get a match. I know of no magic solution though there might be a paint store that has some way to analyze old paint. The problem with that would be that the answer would be in using their paint! I was fortunate to have to use only a partial bottle of each color/shade to find the right one. Good luck with it.   Art W       In a message dated 1/4/2011 11:06:53 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, atrains@... writes: Hi all, I am currently finishing up an old Ambroid S gauge ACL ventilated watermelon car kit, SB-5. The instructions read, "paint the entire car boxcar red".  I bought a bottle of Floquil boxcar red paint today and it does not match the color of the Ambroid pre-painted – lettered sides. Can anyone suggest  what to do regarding the colors not matching?     This is only my second wood kit, my first was an O scale Westbrook reefer. I want to practice on larger kits before starting my HO kits, this is why I am asking this group for help. Thank you, Keith O. Phx, AZ ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings:     Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join     (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email:     vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com     vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:     vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15779	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 1/5/2011
Subject: Re: Ambroid Painted sides, How do I match color?

Hi Keith, I can certainly empathize with you.  Been there done that, in HO.  I had the HO Ambroid kit, but also wanted to try my hand at scratchbuilding one as well.   I did and got 88 points at the Detroit NMRA convention a few years ago.  Pictures are here: http://www.railroad-line.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=24682&whichpage=1 The scratchbuilt model has better lettering.  I was lucky and found decals in a hobby shop in Atlanta while on a visit.  The kit car came out perfectly as well with a very good paint match.  Even i cannot tell any difference. What I used was Polyscale Special Oxide Red and Boxcar Red,  about 3 parts of the oxide red and one part of boxcar red.  Depending on the age of the car, you may want more or less of the boxcar red.  The boxcar red gives it more of a brownish color, so you would be surprised how little you need.  Since I primed all wood parts with cheap gray primer from Wal-Mart, I sprayed that on scraps of basswood and when dry, I did my test shots on those pieces.  When I got to the correct value, I just kept that mix and capped the jar I used.  Since mine was in HO, I didn't need much paint.  You may wish to use one of the airbrush jars for your job in S scale. Good luck and regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: atrains@... Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 03:11:20 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Ambroid Painted sides, How do I match color?   Hi all, I am currently finishing up an old Ambroid S gauge ACL ventilated watermelon car kit, SB-5. The instructions read, "paint the entire car boxcar red". I bought a bottle of Floquil boxcar red paint today and it does not match the color of the Ambroid pre-painted – lettered sides. Can anyone suggest what to do regarding the colors not matching? This is only my second wood kit, my first was an O scale Westbrook reefer. I want to practice on larger kits before starting my HO kits, this is why I am asking this group for help. Thank you, Keith O. Phx, AZ

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15780	From: Richard White	Date: 1/5/2011
Subject: Re: Ambroid Painted sides, How do I match color?

Hello Keith and Vic- I find the Floquil boxcar red too much on the brown side, so I mix a bit of Floquil caboose red until I get the shade I want- which is more to the "red" side. Cheers- Richard White    To: vintageho@yahoogroups.com From: bitlerisvj@... Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 11:06:15 -0500 Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Ambroid Painted sides, How do I match color?   Hi Keith, I can certainly empathize with you.  Been there done that, in HO.  I had the HO Ambroid kit, but also wanted to try my hand at scratchbuilding one as well.   I did and got 88 points at the Detroit NMRA convention a few years ago.  Pictures are here: http://www.railroad-line.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=24682&whichpage=1 The scratchbuilt model has better lettering.  I was lucky and found decals in a hobby shop in Atlanta while on a visit.  The kit car came out perfectly as well with a very good paint match.  Even i cannot tell any difference. What I used was Polyscale Special Oxide Red and Boxcar Red,  about 3 parts of the oxide red and one part of boxcar red.  Depending on the age of the car, you may want more or less of the boxcar red.  The boxcar red gives it more of a brownish color, so you would be surprised how little you need.  Since I primed all wood parts with cheap gray primer from Wal-Mart, I sprayed that on scraps of basswood and when dry, I did my test shots on those pieces.  When I got to the correct value, I just kept that mix and capped the jar I used.  Since mine was in HO, I didn't need much paint.  You may wish to use one of the airbrush jars for your job in S scale. Good luck and regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: atrains@... Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 03:11:20 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Ambroid Painted sides, How do I match color?   Hi all, I am currently finishing up an old Ambroid S gauge ACL ventilated watermelon car kit, SB-5. The instructions read, "paint the entire car boxcar red". I bought a bottle of Floquil boxcar red paint today and it does not match the color of the Ambroid pre-painted – lettered sides. Can anyone suggest what to do regarding the colors not matching? This is only my second wood kit, my first was an O scale Westbrook reefer. I want to practice on larger kits before starting my HO kits, this is why I am asking this group for help. Thank you, Keith O. Phx, AZ

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15781	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/5/2011
Subject: Re: Ambroid Painted sides, How do I match color?

You may want to take a shot at Floquil Tuscan Red too, that is "redder". Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard White" <toytrain13@...> To: "Jim Heckard" <vintageho@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 12:33 PM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Ambroid Painted sides, How do I match color? Hello Keith and Vic- I find the Floquil boxcar red too much on the brown side, so I mix a bit of Floquil caboose red until I get the shade I want- which is more to the "red" side. Cheers- Richard White To: vintageho@yahoogroups.com From: bitlerisvj@... Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 11:06:15 -0500 Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Ambroid Painted sides, How do I match color? Hi Keith, I can certainly empathize with you. Been there done that, in HO. I had the HO Ambroid kit, but also wanted to try my hand at scratchbuilding one as well. I did and got 88 points at the Detroit NMRA convention a few years ago. Pictures are here: http://www.railroad-line.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=24682&whichpage=1 The scratchbuilt model has better lettering. I was lucky and found decals in a hobby shop in Atlanta while on a visit. The kit car came out perfectly as well with a very good paint match. Even i cannot tell any difference. What I used was Polyscale Special Oxide Red and Boxcar Red, about 3 parts of the oxide red and one part of boxcar red. Depending on the age of the car, you may want more or less of the boxcar red. The boxcar red gives it more of a brownish color, so you would be surprised how little you need. Since I primed all wood parts with cheap gray primer from Wal-Mart, I sprayed that on scraps of basswood and when dry, I did my test shots on those pieces. When I got to the correct value, I just kept that mix and capped the jar I used. Since mine was in HO, I didn't need much paint. You may wish to use one of the airbrush jars for your job in S scale. Good luck and regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: atrains@... Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 03:11:20 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Ambroid Painted sides, How do I match color? Hi all, I am currently finishing up an old Ambroid S gauge ACL ventilated watermelon car kit, SB-5. The instructions read, "paint the entire car boxcar red". I bought a bottle of Floquil boxcar red paint today and it does not match the color of the Ambroid pre-painted – lettered sides. Can anyone suggest what to do regarding the colors not matching? This is only my second wood kit, my first was an O scale Westbrook reefer. I want to practice on larger kits before starting my HO kits, this is why I am asking this group for help. Thank you, Keith O. Phx, AZ

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15782	From: Glenn	Date: 1/5/2011
Subject: Re: Ambroid Painted sides, How do I match color?

There is a similar question in MR thisd issue. Souinds like a worthwhile project would be to figure out the paint mixes to these old paints using currently available paints and eventually publish the results. MR ? referred to 4-10-M paint. MDC/Roundhouse had a similar line. gj -----Original Message----- From: Don Dellmann Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 3:37 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Ambroid Painted sides, How do I match color? You may want to take a shot at Floquil Tuscan Red too, that is "redder". Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard White" <toytrain13@...> To: "Jim Heckard" <vintageho@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 12:33 PM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Ambroid Painted sides, How do I match color? Hello Keith and Vic- I find the Floquil boxcar red too much on the brown side, so I mix a bit of Floquil caboose red until I get the shade I want- which is more to the "red" side. Cheers- Richard White To: vintageho@yahoogroups.com From: bitlerisvj@... Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 11:06:15 -0500 Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Ambroid Painted sides, How do I match color? Hi Keith, I can certainly empathize with you. Been there done that, in HO. I had the HO Ambroid kit, but also wanted to try my hand at scratchbuilding one as well. I did and got 88 points at the Detroit NMRA convention a few years ago. Pictures are here: http://www.railroad-line.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=24682&whichpage=1 The scratchbuilt model has better lettering. I was lucky and found decals in a hobby shop in Atlanta while on a visit. The kit car came out perfectly as well with a very good paint match. Even i cannot tell any difference. What I used was Polyscale Special Oxide Red and Boxcar Red, about 3 parts of the oxide red and one part of boxcar red. Depending on the age of the car, you may want more or less of the boxcar red. The boxcar red gives it more of a brownish color, so you would be surprised how little you need. Since I primed all wood parts with cheap gray primer from Wal-Mart, I sprayed that on scraps of basswood and when dry, I did my test shots on those pieces. When I got to the correct value, I just kept that mix and capped the jar I used. Since mine was in HO, I didn't need much paint. You may wish to use one of the airbrush jars for your job in S scale. Good luck and regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: atrains@... Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 03:11:20 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Ambroid Painted sides, How do I match color? Hi all, I am currently finishing up an old Ambroid S gauge ACL ventilated watermelon car kit, SB-5. The instructions read, "paint the entire car boxcar red". I bought a bottle of Floquil boxcar red paint today and it does not match the color of the Ambroid pre-painted – lettered sides. Can anyone suggest what to do regarding the colors not matching? This is only my second wood kit, my first was an O scale Westbrook reefer. I want to practice on larger kits before starting my HO kits, this is why I am asking this group for help. Thank you, Keith O. Phx, AZ ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15783	From: John Hagen	Date: 1/5/2011
Subject: OSTUCO decals

I received my Walthers car today. Cut up a set of decals printed on plain paper and they all fit fine. I will be printing a test set in the next 3 days or so to make certain there aren’t any strange looking lettering or other problems. Then I can print production sets starting sometime next week. The sets will include decals for both cars and will be $7.00/set. Wisconsin residents will have to add 5.5% ($0.39) for sales tax (sorry but I am a company now).  I’m not certain on postage but I’ll be mailing them first class as that is much cheaper than the flat-rate Priority Mail ($4.90).  First class, with a stiffener (cardboard) included, will run $0.98 to $1.25 so if you include $1.25 per order (NOT per set) that’ll cover it.   BTW, the logo for the Walthers car set does look sorta wide sitting out there all by its self but it fits easily betwixt the ribs, as does the prototype. And it is narrower than either the Varney or the drawing of the prototype in the article.   You may start sending me payment and your mailing information at any time. I will be in the hospital for the next couple of days (surgery on my leg) which is why I won’t be able to start the production until next week. I do have the email sent me by various members saved and after I finish the run, anyone whose data I have not received will receive a reminder email from me.   Oh yes, Don or anyone else that happen to be local (Milwaukee area) can pick them up from me and pay me at the time of pickup.   Checks can be made out to John Hagen or OBS-CALS. If you prefer you can pay me via PayPal, using my email address (sprinthag@...). Be sure to also send me an email so I know to look for the payment.   My mailing address is; 4017 S. Shannon Avenue Saint Francis, WI 53235-4725   Thank you all for this your support.   John Hagen

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15784	From: Keith O.	Date: 1/5/2011
Subject: Re: Ambroid Painted sides, How do I match color?

 Hi Art, Vic, Richard, Don, and Glenn,          I now understand there is no simple answer to my paint not matching my car kit. From your helpful replies I understand that I will have to mix paints. I will start with "Oxide Red" and then ad "Boxcar Red" to darken it up to match my pre-painted sides. I will also try to alter the shade with "Caboose Red" if it comes close but does not match. I will use separate eye droppers and take notes on the mixture and post my results. Thank you very much for you help guys! Best regards Keith O.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15785	From: Glenn	Date: 1/6/2011
Subject: Re: Ambroid Painted sides, How do I match color?

I have  a bunch of Roundhouse cars that need matching paint.  My thought was that perhaps as we find matches for these old brands,  we record our findings for others to use.  gj   From: Keith O. Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 8:59 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Ambroid Painted sides, How do I match color?    Hi Art, Vic, Richard, Don, and Glenn,          I now understand there is no simple answer to my paint not matching my car kit. From your helpful replies I understand that I will have to mix paints. I will start with "Oxide Red" and then ad "Boxcar Red" to darken it up to match my pre-painted sides. I will also try to alter the shade with "Caboose Red" if it comes close but does not match. I will use separate eye droppers and take notes on the mixture and post my results. Thank you very much for you help guys! Best regards Keith O.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15786	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 1/6/2011
Subject: Re: Ambroid Painted sides, How do I match color?

What has worked for me before is to select a paint that is somewhat close to the right color. Then to darken or lighten as needed with some drops of black or white. I did this with a model RR car that had been assembled almost 50 years ago with factory prepainted sides using a long out of production line of model paint with all other parts in bare metal. Mixed by eye and air-brushed on, the blended Scalecoat-1 I used became an identical match. I thought the final result was magical. Best to ya, Mike Bauers Milwaukee, Wi On Jan 5, 2011, at 10:59 PM, Keith O. wrote: >  > > Hi Art, Vic, Richard, Don, and Glenn, > I now understand there is no simple answer to my paint not > matching my car kit. From your helpful replies I understand that I > will have to mix paints. I will start with "Oxide Red" and then ad > "Boxcar Red" to darken it up to match my pre-painted sides. I will > also try to alter the shade with "Caboose Red" if it comes close but > does not match. I will use separate eye droppers and take notes on > the mixture and post my results.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15787	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 1/6/2011
Subject: Re: Ambroid Painted sides, How do I match color?

Finally found the record of what I used to match the Globe boxcar red on the vintage kits (I suspect they used 410M paint back then as companies avoided "re-inventing the wheel" just for their products and model makers often used materials from the same source). It is: 1 part Floquil Boxcar Red, 2 parts Red Oxide, and 3 parts Caboose Red. It's possible that Ambroid used the same popular 410M paint of the period--if indeed that's what I was in effect matching. As far as Mike B's use of white with the Scalecoat I to lighten the selected color, that is a good possibility too.  In any case there is a large difference among paint companies, and mixing different brands is definitely not recommended. Even Scalecoat advised me not to mix their formula I with formula II when I emailed them about it. This whole business of matching colors could get expensive for sure, and I thought an article I read about matching original vintage bike colors was interesting where they pointed out that matching colors for restoration was purely a combination of chemistry and magic as few paint companies keep color formula charts for the use of the general public..   Art W             In a message dated 1/6/2011 3:02:58 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, glenn476@... writes: I have  a bunch of Roundhouse cars that need matching paint.  My thought was that perhaps as we find matches for these old brands,  we record our findings for others to use.  gj   From: Keith O. Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 8:59 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Ambroid Painted sides, How do I match color?    Hi Art, Vic, Richard, Don, and Glenn,          I now understand there is no simple answer to my paint not matching my car kit. From your helpful replies I understand that I will have to mix paints. I will start with "Oxide Red" and then ad "Boxcar Red" to darken it up to match my pre-painted sides. I will also try to alter the shade with "Caboose Red" if it comes close but does not match. I will use separate eye droppers and take notes on the mixture and post my results. Thank you very much for you help guys! Best regards Keith O.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15788	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 1/6/2011
Subject: Re: Ambroid Painted sides, How do I match color?

That sounds like the right thing to do.  I wonder how many people know that Ambroid also produced an UN-PAINTED version of this car and provided decals?  That was obviously the best choice.  That way, you could paint it a single color without mixing.  However, I have photos of the prototype and the Ambroid pre-painted color is just about right, so if you want to try to match the prototype, you will need to mix colors. Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: atrains@... Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 21:59:33 -0700 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Ambroid Painted sides, How do I match color?    Hi Art, Vic, Richard, Don, and Glenn,          I now understand there is no simple answer to my paint not matching my car kit. From your helpful replies I understand that I will have to mix paints. I will start with "Oxide Red" and then ad "Boxcar Red" to darken it up to match my pre-painted sides. I will also try to alter the shade with "Caboose Red" if it comes close but does not match. I will use separate eye droppers and take notes on the mixture and post my results. Thank you very much for you help guys! Best regards Keith O.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15789	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 1/6/2011
Subject: Re: OSTUCO decals

YAY!!!!  I should be sending my payment this weekend, probably via PayPal.  I will send another email after I sent my payment with the quantity I need, at least two sets. Thanks and regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: sprinthag@... Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 22:09:49 -0600 Subject: [vintageHO] OSTUCO decals   I received my Walthers car today. Cut up a set of decals printed on plain paper and they all fit fine. I will be printing a test set in the next 3 days or so to make certain there aren’t any strange looking lettering or other problems. Then I can print production sets starting sometime next week. The sets will include decals for both cars and will be $7.00/set. Wisconsin residents will have to add 5.5% ($0.39) for sales tax (sorry but I am a company now).  I’m not certain on postage but I’ll be mailing them first class as that is much cheaper than the flat-rate Priority Mail ($4.90).  First class, with a stiffener (cardboard) included, will run $0.98 to $1.25 so if you include $1.25 per order (NOT per set) that’ll cover it.   BTW, the logo for the Walthers car set does look sorta wide sitting out there all by its self but it fits easily betwixt the ribs, as does the prototype. And it is narrower than either the Varney or the drawing of the prototype in the article.   You may start sending me payment and your mailing information at any time. I will be in the hospital for the next couple of days (surgery on my leg) which is why I won’t be able to start the production until next week. I do have the email sent me by various members saved and after I finish the run, anyone whose data I have not received will receive a reminder email from me.   Oh yes, Don or anyone else that happen to be local (Milwaukee area) can pick them up from me and pay me at the time of pickup.   Checks can be made out to John Hagen or OBS-CALS. If you prefer you can pay me via PayPal, using my email address (sprinthag@...). Be sure to also send me an email so I know to look for the payment.   My mailing address is; 4017 S. Shannon Avenue Saint Francis, WI 53235-4725   Thank you all for this your support.   John Hagen

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15790	From: nvrr49	Date: 1/6/2011
Subject: Re: Ambroid Painted sides, How do I match color?

I have found that Scalecoat seems to match better on many of the vintage kits, Silver Streak, etc. Kent in KC

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15791	From: Denny Anspach	Date: 1/6/2011
Subject: Re: Ambroid Painted sides, How do I match color?

Matching paint colors to these older kits and cars is challenging, to say the least. There are two primary reasons: the makers of the original paints (primarily Stewart-Lundahl 410M, but others- Roundhouse, Super, etc.) are long out of business, as are their formulations; and more importantly, the paints of these earlier kits, etc. contained lead, - which then became illegal, and prompted mass reformulations of all model paints. Since vibrant red colors largely depend upon the presence of lead, the red paints suffered the most- and continue to do so. That "boxcar red' was a generic commodity-type paint color (like "barn red"), even on the prototype, such paints also varied a great deal not only from manufacturer to manufacturer, but also from railroad to railroad, or between cars on a single railroad. Denny Denny S. Anspach, MD Sacramento

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15792	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 1/6/2011
Subject: Re: Ambroid Painted sides, How do I match color?

According to the Ambroid instruction sheet for the ventilated (watermelon) boxcar, they used Floquil Boxcar Red, but as we all know, the new Floquil is nothing like the old Floquil, the issue.  I have no doubt the old Floquil had lead in it, but it was also a lacquer based paint and now it is an oil based paint. Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: luvprr@... Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2011 10:17:28 -0500 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Ambroid Painted sides, How do I match color?     Finally found the record of what I used to match the Globe boxcar red on the vintage kits (I suspect they used 410M paint back then as companies avoided "re-inventing the wheel" just for their products and model makers often used materials from the same source). It is: 1 part Floquil Boxcar Red, 2 parts Red Oxide, and 3 parts Caboose Red. It's possible that Ambroid used the same popular 410M paint of the period--if indeed that's what I was in effect matching. As far as Mike B's use of white with the Scalecoat I to lighten the selected color, that is a good possibility too.  In any case there is a large difference among paint companies, and mixing different brands is definitely not recommended. Even Scalecoat advised me not to mix their formula I with formula II when I emailed them about it. This whole business of matching colors could get expensive for sure, and I thought an article I read about matching original vintage bike colors was interesting where they pointed out that matching colors for restoration was purely a combination of chemistry and magic as few paint companies keep color formula charts for the use of the general public..   Art W             In a message dated 1/6/2011 3:02:58 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, glenn476@... writes: I have  a bunch of Roundhouse cars that need matching paint.  My thought was that perhaps as we find matches for these old brands,  we record our findings for others to use.  gj   From: Keith O. Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 8:59 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Ambroid Painted sides, How do I match color?    Hi Art, Vic, Richard, Don, and Glenn,          I now understand there is no simple answer to my paint not matching my car kit. From your helpful replies I understand that I will have to mix paints. I will start with "Oxide Red" and then ad "Boxcar Red" to darken it up to match my pre-painted sides. I will also try to alter the shade with "Caboose Red" if it comes close but does not match. I will use separate eye droppers and take notes on the mixture and post my results. Thank you very much for you help guys! Best regards Keith O.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15793	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 1/6/2011
Subject: Re: Decals Exist for Ohio Seamless Tube car

Hi Kent, I am not sure if you are on CC, but here is the info. John is ready to print out the Decals.  From what I read, one set includes decals for a 46' car and a 42' car, so it will do two cars.  Here is the information on how to order. ----------------------------------------------snip snip snip----------------------------------------------------------------------- I received my Walthers car today. Cut up a set of decals printed on plain paper and they all fit fine. I will be printing a test set in the next 3 days or so to make certain there aren’t any strange looking lettering or other problems. Then I can print production sets starting sometime next week. The sets will include decals for both cars and will be $7.00/set. Wisconsin residents will have to add 5.5% ($0.39) for sales tax (sorry but I am a company now).  I’m not certain on postage but I’ll be mailing them first class as that is much cheaper than the flat-rate Priority Mail ($4.90).  First class, with a stiffener (cardboard) included, will run $0.98 to $1.25 so if you include $1.25 per order (NOT per set) that’ll cover it.   BTW, the logo for the Walthers car set does look sorta wide sitting out there all by its self but it fits easily betwixt the ribs, as does the prototype. And it is narrower than either the Varney or the drawing of the prototype in the article.   You may start sending me payment and your mailing information at any time. I will be in the hospital for the next couple of days (surgery on my leg) which is why I won’t be able to start the production until next week. I do have the email sent me by various members saved and after I finish the run, anyone whose data I have not received will receive a reminder email from me.   Oh yes, Don or anyone else that happen to be local (Milwaukee area) can pick them up from me and pay me at the time of pickup.   Checks can be made out to John Hagen or OBS-CALS. If you prefer you can pay me via PayPal, using my email address (sprinthag@...). Be sure to also send me an email so I know to look for the payment.   My mailing address is; 4017 S. Shannon Avenue Saint Francis, WI 53235-4725   Thank you all for this your support.   John Hagen ----------------------------------------------snip snip snip----------------------------------------------------------------------- Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: nvrr49@... Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2010 14:56:14 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Decals Exist for Ohio Seamless Tube car   I have responded direct to John that I wanted two sets. Kent in KC nvrr49.blogspot.com --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> wrote: > > > Hi John, so far there are 3 people (including me) that want the decals. Two would like one set, and I would like 2 sets. I am hoping some others will respond this coming week. > Thanks and regards, > Vic Bitleris > Raleigh, NC

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15794	From: CinderCrusher	Date: 1/6/2011
Subject: Re: Ambroid Painted sides, How do I match color?

With respect to Scalecoat paint: I believe they sell two different versions of boxcar red. One is more of a brown color and the other is redder. Bill DeFoe

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15795	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 1/6/2011
Subject: Re: Ambroid Painted sides, How do I match color?

Bill, You must be thinking of Boxcar Red and PRR Freight Car Red as they do not list 2 separate Boxcar Reds as such on their website.   Art W   In a message dated 1/6/2011 8:02:45 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, defoe242@... writes: With respect to Scalecoat paint: I believe they sell two different versions of boxcar red.  One is more of a brown color and the other is redder. Bill DeFoe ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings:     Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join     (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email:     vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com     vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:     vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15796	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 1/6/2011
Subject: Re: Ambroid Painted sides, How do I match color?

I didn't know that. I want to remember that. Yesterday I looked at the Scalecoat site and saw a number of colors I want to stock up on. While I happen to like that paint, it's still a better buy than the other model paints. Best to ya, Mike Bauers Milwaukee, Wi On Jan 6, 2011, at 9:52 AM, nvrr49 wrote: > I have found that Scalecoat seems to match better on many of the > vintage kits, Silver Streak, etc. > > Kent in KC

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15797	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 1/6/2011
Subject: Re: Ambroid Painted sides, How do I match color?

Tuscan Red ?? Best to ya, Mike Bauers Milwaukee, Wi On Jan 6, 2011, at 7:16 PM, luvprr@... wrote: > > > Bill, > You must be thinking of Boxcar Red and PRR Freight Car Red as they > do not list 2 separate Boxcar Reds as such on their website. > > Art W > > In a message dated 1/6/2011 8:02:45 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, defoe242@... > writes: > With respect to Scalecoat paint: > > I believe they sell two different versions of boxcar red. One is > more of a brown color and the other is redder. > > Bill DeFoe

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15798	From: 69_Mustang_Man	Date: 1/7/2011
Subject: Varney Yellowstone boiler casting

Hello group! I just received a Varney Yellowstone boiler casting that i just purchased on eBay. I was thinking when I bid on it that I was getting one that had been altered by having the cab roof cut off. It came today and after looking at it closely, I see that it looks to have been molded this way. I see NO cut marks and the edges seem to have the same texture as the rest of the casting. Were they made this way and if so, was the cab section in two pieces? If so, would anyone happen to have this second cab piece? See the photos I have posted here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/5334016603/in/photostream/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/5334632832/in/photostream/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/5334632784/in/photostream/ Any thoughts? Thanks, Sean

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15799	From: jim heckard	Date: 1/7/2011
Subject: Yellowstone Body

Attachments : IMG_6615_2.JPG IMG_6614_1.JPG       Hi Sean,        Here are pictures which show the Varney Yellowstone body had a separate roof piece that states  "Cab roof screws onto cab proper "       I assume this was both the Brass / Bronze body and the Aluminum one ( which I don't have ). Hope this helps. Sorry I don't have an extra roof piece.                                                                Jim H

@@attachment@@

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15800	From: CinderCrusher	Date: 1/7/2011
Subject: Re: Ambroid Painted sides, How do I match color?

Art and Mike, I apologize. I could have sworn I have seen two different Scalecoat colors marked BoxCar Red. I must be having a senior moment. Bill DeFoe --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote: > > Tuscan Red ?? > > Best to ya, > Mike Bauers > Milwaukee, Wi > > On Jan 6, 2011, at 7:16 PM, luvprr@... wrote: > > > > > > > Bill, > > You must be thinking of Boxcar Red and PRR Freight Car Red as they > > do not list 2 separate Boxcar Reds as such on their website. > > > > Art W > > > > In a message dated 1/6/2011 8:02:45 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, defoe242@... > > writes: > > With respect to Scalecoat paint: > > > > I believe they sell two different versions of boxcar red. One is > > more of a brown color and the other is redder. > > > > Bill DeFoe >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15801	From: John Hagen	Date: 1/8/2011
Subject: OSTUCO Final set

Attachments : OSTUCO_F.pdf This is what your $7.00 will be getting you (excepting the stripe and logo color)   John Hagen

@@attachment@@

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15802	From: erieberk	Date: 1/8/2011
Subject: Re: Yellowstone Body

Hi Jim, Sean, Yes, the aluminum boiler Varney Yellowstone used the same molds as did the brass boilers, and also came as having the cab roof separate. I wish I had an extra one to give you Sean, but I don't have a extra one either. I have seen one a few years ago on eBay (which I bought as I needed one for one of my Yellowstone boilers), so there is the chance that it could be found. Yellowstone cab roofs were never sold separately by Varney, though -- at least not from the catalogs as a separate piece/part number. There's the chance that occasional modelers may have written to Varney for a replacement for one that had been misplaced, sometimes with the original having been found afterwards. Originally, post-War, while this boiler was included as a drawing in the 1948 catalogs (as an Articulated Loco Boiler - 4-6-6-4 or 2-8-8-4, -- NOT stated as particularly for a Yellowstone), there was no catalog number for it, nor was it listed in the Locomotive Boiler and Body Fittings parts listing in the rear. This boiler's, and the Streamlined Pacific or Hudson boiler's price was given upon application; the modeler needed to write to Varney to get a price quote, and then, to order it unless their local hobby shop had it in stock. In the Varney 1949 catalog though, this boiler (and the Streamlined Pacific/Hudson boiler) had part numbers and prices, and could be order directly from the catalog as Number 1870 Articulated Boiler, casting only $7.75. "Casting only" here meant undrilled and untapped (where needed), NOT that it was only the main casting without the cab roof; the drawing showed the boiler with the cab roof. The 1949 catalog describes the Articulated Boiler as "Brass Body Casting," as we have come to understand this boiler being offered post-War, yet the 1948 catalog offers no description of the castings metal used. Just as we have come to understand that the post-War Articulated Boilers were (only) offered in brass, so have some of us come to understand that the pre-War Yellowstone Boilers were only offered in aluminum. While separate Yellowstone boilers were not offered in Varney's 1938 catalog, it was offered separately in both 1940 and 1941, as "Articulated Locomotive Body, 2 piece casting, $12.00," catalog No. 405 Aluminum Casting, weight 3/4 lb., ballast as required, AND No. 406 Brass Casting, weight 2 1/2 lbs. State preference. By this, it appears the pre-War Yellowstone could be had in either aluminum or brass. As both materials were being used pre-War, I see the potential of perhaps some of the first post-War Articulated Boilers in 1948 to possibly also be aluminum, at least in limited numbers if there was any left over pre-War stock, but we'll probably never know. Now, getting back to your boiler, Sean, there is a THIRD casting making up the Yellowstone boiler, which was used (and needed) in both the pre-war and post-War boilers. My pre-War VARNEY instruction sheet for this locomotive shows a separate smaller casting described as the Front Mechanism Support Casting (as listed as a part of the three pieces making up Section #11 Body Casting, along with Main Casting and Cab Roof -- BTW, there were 12 Sections included as the Yellowstone kit, unlike most other Varney engines only having 4 Sections), which is to be driven up into the main casting under the front sand dome. All of my new post-War brass Articulated boilers had the piece as being separate too -- it is not factory installed. Check to see if you have this piece in place. If not, it can be easily improvised but you'd need to solder a piece of material in there; then it needs to be drilled and tapped to take a shouldered screw holding the front "engine." The main thing to consider here is the height of it as its elevation from the inside of the boiler casting when turned upside down. This proper distance is needed for proper installation of the front Main Frame & Drivers (front mechanism) where it hinges. Let me know if you don't have that piece and I'll take that measurement, as well as the measurement of its thickness front to rear. Some modelers have used a short section of 1/2" copper tubing approximately 7/8" long (but I'll get an exact measurement), filled in with lead, and soldered (centered) at the right height off the inside of the boiler at the proper location front to rear -- sometimes flattened on the bottom for best surface-mating and support with the front mechanism. If there were a photo of this boiler on the eBay site, I don't really understand how the omitted cab roof could be missed -- unless there was only the description with no pic. Sorry to see you didn't catch that, but then, you still couldn't pass on bidding on that boiler. As there would be little demand for this part, I doubt Yardbird Classics would be carrying it, but as Dave would be the best source to be set up to be able to cast such a part, you might want to approach him on that. If you can't locate one, I'll try to make a mold here, but it would be cast out of type metal -- mainly lead, but with tin & antimony in it for some hardness and durability. Best regards, Ray F.W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > > > > > Hi Sean, > > > Here are pictures which show the Varney Yellowstone body had a separate roof piece that states "Cab roof screws onto cab proper " > > I assume this was both the Brass / Bronze body and the Aluminum one ( which I don't have ). Hope this helps. Sorry I don't have an extra roof piece. > > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15803	From: Mary Long	Date: 1/8/2011
Subject: Re: OSTUCO Final set [1 Attachment]

Super . Good stuff . This project took off well didn't it ? So , how much does the Godfather's [Walthers] 46' gondola cost these days ? Old Varney gons would probably be cheaper ? Sticker shock , haven't looked at Walthers since 1994 when I closed my shop !!  Again , nice work John . Hope that all goes well surgery wise . Henry H. --- On Sat, 1/8/11, John Hagen <sprinthag@...> wrote: From: John Hagen <sprinthag@...> Subject: [vintageHO] OSTUCO Final set [1 Attachment] To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, January 8, 2011, 10:38 AM   This is what your $7.00 will be getting you (excepting the stripe and logo color)   John Hagen

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15804	From: CinderCrusher	Date: 1/8/2011
Subject: Re: Ambroid Painted sides, How do I match color?

Art and Mike, I retract my apology. Scalecoat actually makes three shades of BoxCar Red. Here they are: Scalecoat I (for painting metal) 640-10132 BoxCar Red 640-10872 BoxCar Red #2 640-10882 BoxCar Red #3 Scalecoat II (plastic compatible) 640-20132 BoxCar Red 640-20872 BoxCar Red #2 640-20882 BoxCar Red #3 These numbers are for the 2oz bottles. They also have 1oz bottles but Walthers doesn't show those numbers in their 2009 catalog. I can't say which of these are more to the brown side and which are more to the red side, but having three shades to start with makes paint matching easier. Bill DeFoe --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "CinderCrusher" <defoe242@...> wrote: > > Art and Mike, > > I apologize. I could have sworn I have seen two different Scalecoat colors marked BoxCar Red. I must be having a senior moment. > > Bill DeFoe >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15805	From: jim heckard	Date: 1/8/2011
Subject: Re: Yellowstone Body

Sean, Ray,         Yes there was a third piece which Ray describes. If you look at the center of the paper / pictures I sent inside the circle " FIG 6 see page 5 " you will see this block with the words " This piece is driven up into the main casting under the front sand dome. " ( I think we are talking about the same thing ) I didn't mention it as we were talking about the cab but had intended to mention it to Sean when I sent a copy to him.                                   Jim H ----- Original Message ----- From: erieberk To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2011 4:23 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Yellowstone Body   Hi Jim, Sean, Yes, the aluminum boiler Varney Yellowstone used the same molds as did the brass boilers, and also came as having the cab roof separate. I wish I had an extra one to give you Sean, but I don't have a extra one either. I have seen one a few years ago on eBay (which I bought as I needed one for one of my Yellowstone boilers), so there is the chance that it could be found. Yellowstone cab roofs were never sold separately by Varney, though -- at least not from the catalogs as a separate piece/part number. There's the chance that occasional modelers may have written to Varney for a replacement for one that had been misplaced, sometimes with the original having been found afterwards. Originally, post-War, while this boiler was included as a drawing in the 1948 catalogs (as an Articulated Loco Boiler - 4-6-6-4 or 2-8-8-4, -- NOT stated as particularly for a Yellowstone), there was no catalog number for it, nor was it listed in the Locomotive Boiler and Body Fittings parts listing in the rear. This boiler's, and the Streamlined Pacific or Hudson boiler's price was given upon application; the modeler needed to write to Varney to get a price quote, and then, to order it unless their local hobby shop had it in stock. In the Varney 1949 catalog though, this boiler (and the Streamlined Pacific/Hudson boiler) had part numbers and prices, and could be order directly from the catalog as Number 1870 Articulated Boiler, casting only $7.75. "Casting only" here meant undrilled and untapped (where needed), NOT that it was only the main casting without the cab roof; the drawing showed the boiler with the cab roof. The 1949 catalog describes the Articulated Boiler as "Brass Body Casting," as we have come to understand this boiler being offered post-War, yet the 1948 catalog offers no description of the castings metal used. Just as we have come to understand that the post-War Articulated Boilers were (only) offered in brass, so have some of us come to understand that the pre-War Yellowstone Boilers were only offered in aluminum. While separate Yellowstone boilers were not offered in Varney's 1938 catalog, it was offered separately in both 1940 and 1941, as "Articulated Locomotive Body, 2 piece casting, $12.00," catalog No. 405 Aluminum Casting, weight 3/4 lb., ballast as required, AND No. 406 Brass Casting, weight 2 1/2 lbs. State preference. By this, it appears the pre-War Yellowstone could be had in either aluminum or brass. As both materials were being used pre-War, I see the potential of perhaps some of the first post-War Articulated Boilers in 1948 to possibly also be aluminum, at least in limited numbers if there was any left over pre-War stock, but we'll probably never know. Now, getting back to your boiler, Sean, there is a THIRD casting making up the Yellowstone boiler, which was used (and needed) in both the pre-war and post-War boilers. My pre-War VARNEY instruction sheet for this locomotive shows a separate smaller casting described as the Front Mechanism Support Casting (as listed as a part of the three pieces making up Section #11 Body Casting, along with Main Casting and Cab Roof -- BTW, there were 12 Sections included as the Yellowstone kit, unlike most other Varney engines only having 4 Sections), which is to be driven up into the main casting under the front sand dome. All of my new post-War brass Articulated boilers had the piece as being separate too -- it is not factory installed. Check to see if you have this piece in place. If not, it can be easily improvised but you'd need to solder a piece of material in there; then it needs to be drilled and tapped to take a shouldered screw holding the front "engine." The main thing to consider here is the height of it as its elevation from the inside of the boiler casting when turned upside down. This proper distance is needed for proper installation of the front Main Frame & Drivers (front mechanism) where it hinges. Let me know if you don't have that piece and I'll take that measurement, as well as the measurement of its thickness front to rear. Some modelers have used a short section of 1/2" copper tubing approximately 7/8" long (but I'll get an exact measurement), filled in with lead, and soldered (centered) at the right height off the inside of the boiler at the proper location front to rear -- sometimes flattened on the bottom for best surface-mating and support with the front mechanism. If there were a photo of this boiler on the eBay site, I don't really understand how the omitted cab roof could be missed -- unless there was only the description with no pic. Sorry to see you didn't catch that, but then, you still couldn't pass on bidding on that boiler. As there would be little demand for this part, I doubt Yardbird Classics would be carrying it, but as Dave would be the best source to be set up to be able to cast such a part, you might want to approach him on that. If you can't locate one, I'll try to make a mold here, but it would be cast out of type metal -- mainly lead, but with tin & antimony in it for some hardness and durability. Best regards, Ray F.W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > > > > > Hi Sean, > > > Here are pictures which show the Varney Yellowstone body had a separate roof piece that states "Cab roof screws onto cab proper " > > I assume this was both the Brass / Bronze body and the Aluminum one ( which I don't have ). Hope this helps. Sorry I don't have an extra roof piece. > > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15806	From: John H	Date: 1/8/2011
Subject: Re: OSTUCO Final set [1 Attachment]

Walthers Catalog as of 30 minutes ago; 932-7450 Gold Line(TM) 46' USRA Steel Gondola Ready to Run -- Undecorated HO 19.98, Sale: 14.98. In stock? Y Decorated Gold Line are on sale at 11.98. Decorated Platinum Line arfe at regular Price of 21.98. Wednesday my son picked an undec up for me at a LHS of $12.00. John Hagen --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Mary Long <long95209@...> wrote: > > Super . Good stuff . This project took off well didn't it ? So , how much does the Godfather's [Walthers] 46' gondola cost these days ? Old Varney gons would probably be cheaper ? Sticker shock , haven't looked at Walthers since 1994 when I closed my shop !!  Again , nice work John . Hope that all goes well surgery wise . Henry H. > > --- On Sat, 1/8/11, John Hagen <sprinthag@...> wrote: > > > From: John Hagen <sprinthag@...> > Subject: [vintageHO] OSTUCO Final set [1 Attachment] > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Date: Saturday, January 8, 2011, 10:38 AM > > >   > > > [Attachment(s) from John Hagen included below] > > > This is what your $7.00 will be getting you (excepting the stripe and logo color) >   > John Hagen >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15807	From: John H	Date: 1/8/2011
Subject: Re: OSTUCO Final set [1 Attachment]

Walthers Catalog as of 30 minutes ago; 932-7450 Gold Line(TM) 46' USRA Steel Gondola Ready to Run -- Undecorated HO 19.98, Sale: 14.98. In stock? Y Decorated Gold Line are on sale at 11.98. Decorated Platinum Line arfe at regular Price of 21.98. Wednesday my son picked an undec up for me at a LHS of $12.00. John Hagen --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Mary Long <long95209@...> wrote: > > Super . Good stuff . This project took off well didn't it ? So , how much does the Godfather's [Walthers] 46' gondola cost these days ? Old Varney gons would probably be cheaper ? Sticker shock , haven't looked at Walthers since 1994 when I closed my shop !!  Again , nice work John . Hope that all goes well surgery wise . Henry H. > > --- On Sat, 1/8/11, John Hagen <sprinthag@...> wrote: > > > From: John Hagen <sprinthag@...> > Subject: [vintageHO] OSTUCO Final set [1 Attachment] > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Date: Saturday, January 8, 2011, 10:38 AM > > >   > > > [Attachment(s) from John Hagen included below] > > > This is what your $7.00 will be getting you (excepting the stripe and logo color) >   > John Hagen >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15808	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 1/8/2011
Subject: Re: Yellowstone Body

Hi Ray,   A mold of any sort would be awesome. I'll gladdly pay for yout time and materials. I would also need a profile of the third part as well. I have two of these yellowstone boilers and both ar missing this third part. The other yellowstone had the entire cab section taken off and a MDC 0-6-0 cab mounted... looks awkward to me anf I have been wanting a larger cab on it so i have a Kemtron cab-forward cab saved for it. (not the lil joe part, but the entire cab) Therefore I never saw an original unaltered boiler shell and had no way of knowing.   I have not mounted them to a frame yet and am having trouble seeing how the motor is to fit inside the boiler without severly hacking away at the inside of the boiler.   If you have a set of building plans for this locomotive, that would be awesome as well!   Thanks, Sean   1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! From: erieberk <erieberk@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, January 8, 2011 4:23:57 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Yellowstone Body   Hi Jim, Sean, Yes, the aluminum boiler Varney Yellowstone used the same molds as did the brass boilers, and also came as having the cab roof separate. I wish I had an extra one to give you Sean, but I don't have a extra one either. I have seen one a few years ago on eBay (which I bought as I needed one for one of my Yellowstone boilers), so there is the chance that it could be found. Yellowstone cab roofs were never sold separately by Varney, though -- at least not from the catalogs as a separate piece/part number. There's the chance that occasional modelers may have written to Varney for a replacement for one that had been misplaced, sometimes with the original having been found afterwards. Originally, post-War, while this boiler was included as a drawing in the 1948 catalogs (as an Articulated Loco Boiler - 4-6-6-4 or 2-8-8-4, -- NOT stated as particularly for a Yellowstone), there was no catalog number for it, nor was it listed in the Locomotive Boiler and Body Fittings parts listing in the rear. This boiler's, and the Streamlined Pacific or Hudson boiler's price was given upon application; the modeler needed to write to Varney to get a price quote, and then, to order it unless their local hobby shop had it in stock. In the Varney 1949 catalog though, this boiler (and the Streamlined Pacific/Hudson boiler) had part numbers and prices, and could be order directly from the catalog as Number 1870 Articulated Boiler, casting only $7.75. "Casting only" here meant undrilled and untapped (where needed), NOT that it was only the main casting without the cab roof; the drawing showed the boiler with the cab roof. The 1949 catalog describes the Articulated Boiler as "Brass Body Casting," as we have come to understand this boiler being offered post-War, yet the 1948 catalog offers no description of the castings metal used. Just as we have come to understand that the post-War Articulated Boilers were (only) offered in brass, so have some of us come to understand that the pre-War Yellowstone Boilers were only offered in aluminum. While separate Yellowstone boilers were not offered in Varney's 1938 catalog, it was offered separately in both 1940 and 1941, as "Articulated Locomotive Body, 2 piece casting, $12.00," catalog No. 405 Aluminum Casting, weight 3/4 lb., ballast as required, AND No. 406 Brass Casting, weight 2 1/2 lbs. State preference. By this, it appears the pre-War Yellowstone could be had in either aluminum or brass. As both materials were being used pre-War, I see the potential of perhaps some of the first post-War Articulated Boilers in 1948 to possibly also be aluminum, at least in limited numbers if there was any left over pre-War stock, but we'll probably never know. Now, getting back to your boiler, Sean, there is a THIRD casting making up the Yellowstone boiler, which was used (and needed) in both the pre-war and post-War boilers. My pre-War VARNEY instruction sheet for this locomotive shows a separate smaller casting described as the Front Mechanism Support Casting (as listed as a part of the three pieces making up Section #11 Body Casting, along with Main Casting and Cab Roof -- BTW, there were 12 Sections included as the Yellowstone kit, unlike most other Varney engines only having 4 Sections), which is to be driven up into the main casting under the front sand dome. All of my new post-War brass Articulated boilers had the piece as being separate too -- it is not factory installed. Check to see if you have this piece in place. If not, it can be easily improvised but you'd need to solder a piece of material in there; then it needs to be drilled and tapped to take a shouldered screw holding the front "engine." The main thing to consider here is the height of it as its elevation from the inside of the boiler casting when turned upside down. This proper distance is needed for proper installation of the front Main Frame & Drivers (front mechanism) where it hinges. Let me know if you don't have that piece and I'll take that measurement, as well as the measurement of its thickness front to rear. Some modelers have used a short section of 1/2" copper tubing approximately 7/8" long (but I'll get an exact measurement), filled in with lead, and soldered (centered) at the right height off the inside of the boiler at the proper location front to rear -- sometimes flattened on the bottom for best surface-mating and support with the front mechanism. If there were a photo of this boiler on the eBay site, I don't really understand how the omitted cab roof could be missed -- unless there was only the description with no pic. Sorry to see you didn't catch that, but then, you still couldn't pass on bidding on that boiler. As there would be little demand for this part, I doubt Yardbird Classics would be carrying it, but as Dave would be the best source to be set up to be able to cast such a part, you might want to approach him on that. If you can't locate one, I'll try to make a mold here, but it would be cast out of type metal -- mainly lead, but with tin & antimony in it for some hardness and durability. Best regards, Ray F.W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > > > > > Hi Sean, > > > Here are pictures which show the Varney Yellowstone body had a separate roof piece that states "Cab roof screws onto cab proper " > > I assume this was both the Brass / Bronze body and the Aluminum one ( which I don't have ). Hope this helps. Sorry I don't have an extra roof piece. > > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15809	From: Duane Porter	Date: 1/8/2011
Subject: Re: Grant Hobbycraft

Eric and everyone I have created a section in the photos called Grant Hobbycraft and have put in there some scans of their Model Railroader adds from 1956 & 1957. I also included a pic of the Canadian set that they produced. I bought this set some time ago as I have been collecting these cars for may years now. I have them in both the CP & CN versions. I will post more pictures of them soon. Duane Porter Halifax & SouthWestern Railway Museum Lunenburg Nova Scotia Canada On 28-Dec-10, at 2:08 AM, cheez_eric wrote: > If that's the case, I'm surprised the line was never picked up by > another company. Any idea if the CN cars came pre-painted? The CP > cars I've seen came unpainted with the decals in the box for the > owner to install. I'd imagine the CN versions would be similar. I'll > have to keep an eye out for more of these. > > Thanks! > Eric > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Duane Porter" <duaneporter@...> > wrote: >> >> Eric and all >> >> From what I was told about Grant Hobbycraft by a modeler friend of >> mine in the Toronto area who has since passed away, they only ever >> did one production run of passenger cars. There are two different >> styles that were made and both are specifically replicating >> Canadian prototypes. The first one is the one that we saw in your >> pictures that is replicating the style of Budd cars that the CPR >> purchased in the 1950's. These cars are still being used by VIA >> Rail today. The second style that was produced was smooth sided and >> were painted in the CNR green, black, and gold pin striping. >> >> Duane Porter >> >> >> >> >> --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "cheez_eric" <cheez_eric@> wrote: >>> >>> Hey everyone. I was told that if anyone could give me info on some >>> vintage trains, it would be you guys. :D I have a number of metal >>> streamliners made by a Canadian company called "Grant Hobbycraft >>> and Toys Limited". Other than a floor diagram on HOseeker, there >>> doesn't seem to be a single thing on the net about them. Does >>> anyone here know anything about the company? >>> >>> Here are a few pics: >>> >>> http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee86/cheezfreek57/DSC09019.jpg >>> http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee86/cheezfreek57/DSC09020.jpg >>> http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee86/cheezfreek57/DSC09012.jpg >>> >>> -Eric >>> >> > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15810	From: erieberk	Date: 1/8/2011
Subject: Re: Yellowstone Body

Hi Sean, I'll give it a shot, in trying to make a mold for this piece. Since it's not very elaborate nor that big it should be pretty straightforward, but I'll see how it goes. I've made a few casting before -- one was of the continuation of the rear portion of a Varney pre-War engine frame which was broke just after the last driver and missing from there back. Turned out fine; I casted it right onto the forward section as one piece. No promises here as to whether I'll be as successful, but I'll see if I can help you on this. As for the third part, I don't have any loose ones right now as whatever I had I've installed in the boilers, and it's a hammer/press fit. No way of removing them after they're installed. I'll try to get some pics though, and some measurements. The Varney plans for building the Yellowstone consist of 10 leaves (20 pages) of paper which I'd be glad to copy for you if you don't mind a wait. My printer quite a couple weeks ago, and I've been on the lookout for a reasonable replacement. I could Xerox them at the library if you'd like them sooner, no problem. You could also go to your Model Railroader magazines, if you have the May & June 1949 issues as there are plans for the Yellowstone in there two, as a two-part article with drawings. I'm not sure if it covers everything that Varney printed in his plans, but it is very good. Unless you're planning on using a Pitman DC-90, you shouldn't have to hack anything away inside the boiler. Varney used that large 6 volt V-1 (much larger in height than the V-2 that many modelers used later), and that fit without any clearance problems. Ray F.W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > Hi Ray, > > A mold of any sort would be awesome. I'll gladdly pay for yout time and > materials. I would also need a profile of the third part as well. I have two of > these yellowstone boilers and both ar missing this third part. The other > yellowstone had the entire cab section taken off and a MDC 0-6-0 cab mounted... > looks awkward to me anf I have been wanting a larger cab on it so i have a > Kemtron cab-forward cab saved for it. (not the lil joe part, but the entire cab) > Therefore I never saw an original unaltered boiler shell and had no way of > knowing. > > > I have not mounted them to a frame yet and am having trouble seeing how the > motor is to fit inside the boiler without severly hacking away at the inside of > the boiler. > > > If you have a set of building plans for this locomotive, that would be awesome > as well! > > Thanks, > Sean >  1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! > > > > > ________________________________ > From: erieberk <erieberk@...> > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sat, January 8, 2011 4:23:57 AM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Yellowstone Body > >   > > > Hi Jim, Sean, > > Yes, the aluminum boiler Varney Yellowstone used the same molds as did the brass > boilers, and also came as having the cab roof separate. I wish I had an extra > one to give you Sean, but I don't have a extra one either. I have seen one a few > years ago on eBay (which I bought as I needed one for one of my Yellowstone > boilers), so there is the chance that it could be found. Yellowstone cab roofs > were never sold separately by Varney, though -- at least not from the catalogs > as a separate piece/part number. > > > There's the chance that occasional modelers may have written to Varney for a > replacement for one that had been misplaced, sometimes with the original having > been found afterwards. Originally, post-War, while this boiler was included as a > drawing in the 1948 catalogs (as an Articulated Loco Boiler - 4-6-6-4 or > 2-8-8-4, -- NOT stated as particularly for a Yellowstone), there was no catalog > number for it, nor was it listed in the Locomotive Boiler and Body Fittings > parts listing in the rear. This boiler's, and the Streamlined Pacific or Hudson > boiler's price was given upon application; the modeler needed to write to Varney > to get a price quote, and then, to order it unless their local hobby shop had it > in stock. > > > In the Varney 1949 catalog though, this boiler (and the Streamlined > Pacific/Hudson boiler) had part numbers and prices, and could be order directly > from the catalog as Number 1870 Articulated Boiler, casting only $7.75. "Casting > only" here meant undrilled and untapped (where needed), NOT that it was only the > main casting without the cab roof; the drawing showed the boiler with the cab > roof. The 1949 catalog describes the Articulated Boiler as "Brass Body Casting," > as we have come to understand this boiler being offered post-War, yet the 1948 > catalog offers no description of the castings metal used. > > Just as we have come to understand that the post-War Articulated Boilers were > (only) offered in brass, so have some of us come to understand that the pre-War > Yellowstone Boilers were only offered in aluminum. While separate Yellowstone > boilers were not offered in Varney's 1938 catalog, it was offered separately in > both 1940 and 1941, as "Articulated Locomotive Body, 2 piece casting, $12.00," > catalog No. 405 Aluminum Casting, weight 3/4 lb., ballast as required, AND No. > 406 Brass Casting, weight 2 1/2 lbs. State preference. By this, it appears the > pre-War Yellowstone could be had in either aluminum or brass. As both materials > were being used pre-War, I see the potential of perhaps some of the first > post-War Articulated Boilers in 1948 to possibly also be aluminum, at least in > limited numbers if there was any left over pre-War stock, but we'll probably > never know. > > Now, getting back to your boiler, Sean, there is a THIRD casting making up the > Yellowstone boiler, which was used (and needed) in both the pre-war and post-War > boilers. My pre-War VARNEY instruction sheet for this locomotive shows a > separate smaller casting described as the Front Mechanism Support Casting (as > listed as a part of the three pieces making up Section #11 Body Casting, along > with Main Casting and Cab Roof -- BTW, there were 12 Sections included as the > Yellowstone kit, unlike most other Varney engines only having 4 Sections), which > is to be driven up into the main casting under the front sand dome. All of my > new post-War brass Articulated boilers had the piece as being separate too -- it > is not factory installed. Check to see if you have this piece in place. If not, > it can be easily improvised but you'd need to solder a piece of material in > there; then it needs to be drilled and tapped to take a shouldered screw holding > the front "engine." The main thing to consider here is the height of it as its > elevation from the inside of the boiler casting when turned upside down. This > proper distance is needed for proper installation of the front Main Frame & > Drivers (front mechanism) where it hinges. Let me know if you don't have that > piece and I'll take that measurement, as well as the measurement of its > thickness front to rear. Some modelers have used a short section of 1/2" copper > tubing approximately 7/8" long (but I'll get an exact measurement), filled in > with lead, and soldered (centered) at the right height off the inside of the > boiler at the proper location front to rear -- sometimes flattened on the bottom > for best surface-mating and support with the front mechanism. > > > If there were a photo of this boiler on the eBay site, I don't really understand > how the omitted cab roof could be missed -- unless there was only the > description with no pic. Sorry to see you didn't catch that, but then, you still > couldn't pass on bidding on that boiler. As there would be little demand for > this part, I doubt Yardbird Classics would be carrying it, but as Dave would be > the best source to be set up to be able to cast such a part, you might want to > approach him on that. If you can't locate one, I'll try to make a mold here, but > it would be cast out of type metal -- mainly lead, but with tin & antimony in it > for some hardness and durability. > > > Best regards, Ray F.W. > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Sean, > > > > > > Here are pictures which show the Varney Yellowstone body had a separate roof > >piece that states "Cab roof screws onto cab proper " > > > > I assume this was both the Brass / Bronze body and the Aluminum one ( which I > >don't have ). Hope this helps. Sorry I don't have an extra roof piece. > > > > Jim H > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15811	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/8/2011
Subject: Re: OSTUCO Final set [1 Attachment]

----- Original Message ----- From: "John Hagen" <sprinthag@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2011 2:38 AM Subject: [vintageHO] OSTUCO Final set [1 Attachment] > This is what your $7.00 will be getting you (excepting the stripe and logo > color) > > > > John Hagen > > Payment for two sets went in the mail this afternoon. BTW, Milwaukee County residents (Mike?) the tax is 5.6%, and the postage is taxable too. Don't want to see John go to jail over 13 cents :-) Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15812	From: jim heckard	Date: 1/8/2011
Subject: Re: Grant Hobbycraft

Duane,              I checked out those photos for the Grant Hobbycraft. Thanks for showing them. They contain good HO vintage information  especially the years they were made. While I have a few passenger cars I didn't realize they made freight and powered diesels based on GM F9 A&B with a DC-90 motor and 8 wheel drive built in Canada.  I would be interested to know if the bodies are plastic ?  Where the bodies also made in Canada or did they use someone's already made bodies ?  Would love to dig out an A&B set myself.                                  Jim H                                                         ----- Original Message ----- From: Duane Porter To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2011 11:21 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Grant Hobbycraft   Eric and everyone I have created a section in the photos called Grant Hobbycraft and have put in there some scans of their Model Railroader adds from 1956 & 1957. I also included a pic of the Canadian set that they produced. I bought this set some time ago as I have been collecting these cars for may years now. I have them in both the CP & CN versions. I will post more pictures of them soon. Duane Porter Halifax & SouthWestern Railway Museum Lunenburg Nova Scotia Canada On 28-Dec-10, at 2:08 AM, cheez_eric wrote: > If that's the case, I'm surprised the line was never picked up by > another company. Any idea if the CN cars came pre-painted? The CP > cars I've seen came unpainted with the decals in the box for the > owner to install. I'd imagine the CN versions would be similar. I'll > have to keep an eye out for more of these. > > Thanks! > Eric > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Duane Porter" <duaneporter@...> > wrote: >> >> Eric and all >> >> From what I was told about Grant Hobbycraft by a modeler friend of >> mine in the Toronto area who has since passed away, they only ever >> did one production run of passenger cars. There are two different >> styles that were made and both are specifically replicating >> Canadian prototypes. The first one is the one that we saw in your >> pictures that is replicating the style of Budd cars that the CPR >> purchased in the 1950's. These cars are still being used by VIA >> Rail today. The second style that was produced was smooth sided and >> were painted in the CNR green, black, and gold pin striping. >> >> Duane Porter >> >> >> >> >> --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "cheez_eric" <cheez_eric@> wrote: >>> >>> Hey everyone. I was told that if anyone could give me info on some >>> vintage trains, it would be you guys. :D I have a number of metal >>> streamliners made by a Canadian company called "Grant Hobbycraft >>> and Toys Limited". Other than a floor diagram on HOseeker, there >>> doesn't seem to be a single thing on the net about them. Does >>> anyone here know anything about the company? >>> >>> Here are a few pics: >>> >>> http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee86/cheezfreek57/DSC09019.jpg >>> http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee86/cheezfreek57/DSC09020.jpg >>> http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee86/cheezfreek57/DSC09012.jpg >>> >>> -Eric >>> >> > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15813	From: Duane Porter	Date: 1/8/2011
Subject: Re: Grant Hobbycraft

Jim I don't know anything about the freight cars however I do have 2 sets of the F9 A&B units. Right now I am at home and the units are over at the museum but from my memory I believe that the A unit is a Hobbytown of Boston drive with a plastic shell. The B unit is also plastic with a plastic under-frame and wheels and my be from a different manufacture. They, from what can tell, were known for buying others product and packaging it under their own label. I will post some pictures of the engine that I have here on my laptop and will try and get some fresh ones as soon as I can. What styles of passenger cars do you have. What I have is the full baggage, dorm baggage, coach, the manor class sleeper and the observation car which is really different because the windows are punch out in the style of the dome observation park car but it just has regular end door and no dome. A style that the CPR never had. I have only seen the tiny picture of the dome car that is in one of the adds that I posted, Oct. 56, and a picture of the dining car that Eric has posted on another site. Duane Porter Halifax & SouthWestern Railway Museum Lunenburg Nova Scotia Canada --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> wrote: > > Duane, > > I checked out those photos for the Grant Hobbycraft. Thanks for showing them. They contain good HO vintage information especially the years they were made. While I have a few passenger cars I didn't realize they made freight and powered diesels based on GM F9 A&B with a DC-90 motor and 8 wheel drive built in Canada. I would be interested to know if the bodies are plastic ? Where the bodies also made in Canada or did they use someone's already made bodies ? Would love to dig out an A&B set myself. > > Jim H > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Duane Porter > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2011 11:21 AM > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Grant Hobbycraft > > > > Eric and everyone > I have created a section in the photos > called Grant Hobbycraft and have put in there some scans of their > Model Railroader adds from 1956 & 1957. I also included a pic of the > Canadian set that they produced. I bought this set some time ago as I > have been collecting these cars for may years now. I have them in both > the CP & CN versions. I will post more pictures of them soon. > > Duane Porter > Halifax & SouthWestern Railway Museum > Lunenburg Nova Scotia Canada > > On 28-Dec-10, at 2:08 AM, cheez_eric wrote: > > > If that's the case, I'm surprised the line was never picked up by > > another company. Any idea if the CN cars came pre-painted? The CP > > cars I've seen came unpainted with the decals in the box for the > > owner to install. I'd imagine the CN versions would be similar. I'll > > have to keep an eye out for more of these. > > > > Thanks! > > Eric > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Duane Porter" <duaneporter@> > > wrote: > >> > >> Eric and all > >> > >> From what I was told about Grant Hobbycraft by a modeler friend of > >> mine in the Toronto area who has since passed away, they only ever > >> did one production run of passenger cars. There are two different > >> styles that were made and both are specifically replicating > >> Canadian prototypes. The first one is the one that we saw in your > >> pictures that is replicating the style of Budd cars that the CPR > >> purchased in the 1950's. These cars are still being used by VIA > >> Rail today. The second style that was produced was smooth sided and > >> were painted in the CNR green, black, and gold pin striping. > >> > >> Duane Porter > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "cheez_eric" <cheez_eric@> wrote: > >>> > >>> Hey everyone. I was told that if anyone could give me info on some > >>> vintage trains, it would be you guys. :D I have a number of metal > >>> streamliners made by a Canadian company called "Grant Hobbycraft > >>> and Toys Limited". Other than a floor diagram on HOseeker, there > >>> doesn't seem to be a single thing on the net about them. Does > >>> anyone here know anything about the company? > >>> > >>> Here are a few pics: > >>> > >>> http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee86/cheezfreek57/DSC09019.jpg > >>> http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee86/cheezfreek57/DSC09020.jpg > >>> http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee86/cheezfreek57/DSC09012.jpg > >>> > >>> -Eric > >>> > >> > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15814	From: jim heckard	Date: 1/8/2011
Subject: Re: Grant Hobbycraft

Duane,            Thanks for the response and the information about the F-9 A&B units and the new diesel pictures you just added. I was just taking the information off one of the larger ads ( starts " At last " ) about the diesel units and the freight cars. It states the diesels are Canadian built and is why I asked about the bodies being plastic. You mention about the A unit being a Hobbytown drive and that ad mentions powered by a DC-90 motor which, if I remember that number right,  was mainly used for O gauge but was used on some HO. Hobbytown used it in their powered E units that I know of.        I have 6 CPR style Grant Hobbycraft cars. ( When I bought them the previous owner told me the company was Hobbycraft of Canada and I had no reason to believe otherwise  The recent post and the picture of an original box has changed that.)  I will have to check again which styles of passenger cars I have.  I know there are 4 different styles with two doubles. I bought them with no trucks but still not detailed with the plastic detail parts still in little bags but no O/B's. There was only one piece of paperwork with them that showed you, dependant on the type of car, where to add the bottom detail plastic parts and in what pre drilled holes. ( I just posted pictures under attachments a couple of days ago. )       I find all the information interesting and useful for filling in the history of a lesser known vintage HO item. I would like to add at least a powered A unit to my collection. I am wondering if the bodies came factory painted or did Grant Hobbycraft custom paint them or have someone do it  ?                                     Jim H               ----- Original Message ----- From: Duane Porter To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2011 7:17 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Grant Hobbycraft   Jim I don't know anything about the freight cars however I do have 2 sets of the F9 A&B units. Right now I am at home and the units are over at the museum but from my memory I believe that the A unit is a Hobbytown of Boston drive with a plastic shell. The B unit is also plastic with a plastic under-frame and wheels and my be from a different manufacture. They, from what can tell, were known for buying others product and packaging it under their own label. I will post some pictures of the engine that I have here on my laptop and will try and get some fresh ones as soon as I can. What styles of passenger cars do you have. What I have is the full baggage, dorm baggage, coach, the manor class sleeper and the observation car which is really different because the windows are punch out in the style of the dome observation park car but it just has regular end door and no dome. A style that the CPR never had. I have only seen the tiny picture of the dome car that is in one of the adds that I posted, Oct. 56, and a picture of the dining car that Eric has posted on another site. Duane Porter Halifax & SouthWestern Railway Museum Lunenburg Nova Scotia Canada --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> wrote: > > Duane, > > I checked out those photos for the Grant Hobbycraft. Thanks for showing them. They contain good HO vintage information especially the years they were made. While I have a few passenger cars I didn't realize they made freight and powered diesels based on GM F9 A&B with a DC-90 motor and 8 wheel drive built in Canada. I would be interested to know if the bodies are plastic ? Where the bodies also made in Canada or did they use someone's already made bodies ? Would love to dig out an A&B set myself. > > Jim H > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Duane Porter > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2011 11:21 AM > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Grant Hobbycraft > > > > Eric and everyone > I have created a section in the photos > called Grant Hobbycraft and have put in there some scans of their > Model Railroader adds from 1956 & 1957. I also included a pic of the > Canadian set that they produced. I bought this set some time ago as I > have been collecting these cars for may years now. I have them in both > the CP & CN versions. I will post more pictures of them soon. > > Duane Porter > Halifax & SouthWestern Railway Museum > Lunenburg Nova Scotia Canada > > On 28-Dec-10, at 2:08 AM, cheez_eric wrote: > > > If that's the case, I'm surprised the line was never picked up by > > another company. Any idea if the CN cars came pre-painted? The CP > > cars I've seen came unpainted with the decals in the box for the > > owner to install. I'd imagine the CN versions would be similar. I'll > > have to keep an eye out for more of these. > > > > Thanks! > > Eric > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Duane Porter" <duaneporter@> > > wrote: > >> > >> Eric and all > >> > >> From what I was told about Grant Hobbycraft by a modeler friend of > >> mine in the Toronto area who has since passed away, they only ever > >> did one production run of passenger cars. There are two different > >> styles that were made and both are specifically replicating > >> Canadian prototypes. The first one is the one that we saw in your > >> pictures that is replicating the style of Budd cars that the CPR > >> purchased in the 1950's. These cars are still being used by VIA > >> Rail today. The second style that was produced was smooth sided and > >> were painted in the CNR green, black, and gold pin striping. > >> > >> Duane Porter > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "cheez_eric" <cheez_eric@> wrote: > >>> > >>> Hey everyone. I was told that if anyone could give me info on some > >>> vintage trains, it would be you guys. :D I have a number of metal > >>> streamliners made by a Canadian company called "Grant Hobbycraft > >>> and Toys Limited". Other than a floor diagram on HOseeker, there > >>> doesn't seem to be a single thing on the net about them. Does > >>> anyone here know anything about the company? > >>> > >>> Here are a few pics: > >>> > >>> http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee86/cheezfreek57/DSC09019.jpg > >>> http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee86/cheezfreek57/DSC09020.jpg > >>> http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee86/cheezfreek57/DSC09012.jpg > >>> > >>> -Eric > >>> > >> > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15815	From: Duane Porter	Date: 1/8/2011
Subject: Re: Grant Hobbycraft

Jim I just looked at your pictures in the attachments section. What you have there photos of the full baggage car, which buy the way the CPR never had in the budd style only in smooth side, the dormitory baggage combination car that you thought might be a rpo, the coach and the manor class sleeping car that you thought might be the diner. As for the A units I have no idea where or who painted them. Of the two sets of A & B units that I do have they are both painted different. One set is pained the maroon and grey with yellow pin striping and the other is painted maroon and silver with yellow pin striping, the same silver that they used to paint the passenger cars with. By the way Grant Hobbycraft and Hobbycraft of Canada are two different company's Duane Porter Halifax & SouthWestern Railway Museum Lunenburg Nova Scotia Canada --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> wrote: > > Duane, > > Thanks for the response and the information about the F-9 A&B units and the new diesel pictures you just added. I was just taking the information off one of the larger ads ( starts " At last " ) about the diesel units and the freight cars. It states the diesels are Canadian built and is why I asked about the bodies being plastic. You mention about the A unit being a Hobbytown drive and that ad mentions powered by a DC-90 motor which, if I remember that number right, was mainly used for O gauge but was used on some HO. Hobbytown used it in their powered E units that I know of. > > I have 6 CPR style Grant Hobbycraft cars. ( When I bought them the previous owner told me the company was Hobbycraft of Canada and I had no reason to believe otherwise The recent post and the picture of an original box has changed that.) I will have to check again which styles of passenger cars I have. I know there are 4 different styles with two doubles. I bought them with no trucks but still not detailed with the plastic detail parts still in little bags but no O/B's. There was only one piece of paperwork with them that showed you, dependant on the type of car, where to add the bottom detail plastic parts and in what pre drilled holes. ( I just posted pictures under attachments a couple of days ago. ) > > I find all the information interesting and useful for filling in the history of a lesser known vintage HO item. I would like to add at least a powered A unit to my collection. I am wondering if the bodies came factory painted or did Grant Hobbycraft custom paint them or have someone do it ? > > Jim H > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Duane Porter > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2011 7:17 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Grant Hobbycraft > > > > Jim > I don't know anything about the freight cars however I do have 2 sets of the F9 A&B units. Right now I am at home and the units are over at the museum but from my memory I believe that the A unit is a Hobbytown of Boston drive with a plastic shell. The B unit is also plastic with a plastic under-frame and wheels and my be from a different manufacture. > They, from what can tell, were known for buying others product and packaging it under their own label. > I will post some pictures of the engine that I have here on my laptop and will try and get some fresh ones as soon as I can. > What styles of passenger cars do you have. What I have is the full baggage, dorm baggage, coach, the manor class sleeper and the observation car which is really different because the windows are punch out in the style of the dome observation park car but it just has regular end door and no dome. A style that the CPR never had. I have only seen the tiny picture of the dome car that is in one of the adds that I posted, Oct. 56, and a picture of the dining car that Eric has posted on another site. > > Duane Porter > Halifax & SouthWestern Railway Museum > Lunenburg Nova Scotia Canada > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@> wrote: > > > > Duane, > > > > I checked out those photos for the Grant Hobbycraft. Thanks for showing them. They contain good HO vintage information especially the years they were made. While I have a few passenger cars I didn't realize they made freight and powered diesels based on GM F9 A&B with a DC-90 motor and 8 wheel drive built in Canada. I would be interested to know if the bodies are plastic ? Where the bodies also made in Canada or did they use someone's already made bodies ? Would love to dig out an A&B set myself. > > > > Jim H > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Duane Porter > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2011 11:21 AM > > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Grant Hobbycraft > > > > > > > > Eric and everyone > > I have created a section in the photos > > called Grant Hobbycraft and have put in there some scans of their > > Model Railroader adds from 1956 & 1957. I also included a pic of the > > Canadian set that they produced. I bought this set some time ago as I > > have been collecting these cars for may years now. I have them in both > > the CP & CN versions. I will post more pictures of them soon. > > > > Duane Porter > > Halifax & SouthWestern Railway Museum > > Lunenburg Nova Scotia Canada > > > > On 28-Dec-10, at 2:08 AM, cheez_eric wrote: > > > > > If that's the case, I'm surprised the line was never picked up by > > > another company. Any idea if the CN cars came pre-painted? The CP > > > cars I've seen came unpainted with the decals in the box for the > > > owner to install. I'd imagine the CN versions would be similar. I'll > > > have to keep an eye out for more of these. > > > > > > Thanks! > > > Eric > > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Duane Porter" <duaneporter@> > > > wrote: > > >> > > >> Eric and all > > >> > > >> From what I was told about Grant Hobbycraft by a modeler friend of > > >> mine in the Toronto area who has since passed away, they only ever > > >> did one production run of passenger cars. There are two different > > >> styles that were made and both are specifically replicating > > >> Canadian prototypes. The first one is the one that we saw in your > > >> pictures that is replicating the style of Budd cars that the CPR > > >> purchased in the 1950's. These cars are still being used by VIA > > >> Rail today. The second style that was produced was smooth sided and > > >> were painted in the CNR green, black, and gold pin striping. > > >> > > >> Duane Porter > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "cheez_eric" <cheez_eric@> wrote: > > >>> > > >>> Hey everyone. I was told that if anyone could give me info on some > > >>> vintage trains, it would be you guys. :D I have a number of metal > > >>> streamliners made by a Canadian company called "Grant Hobbycraft > > >>> and Toys Limited". Other than a floor diagram on HOseeker, there > > >>> doesn't seem to be a single thing on the net about them. Does > > >>> anyone here know anything about the company? > > >>> > > >>> Here are a few pics: > > >>> > > >>> http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee86/cheezfreek57/DSC09019.jpg > > >>> http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee86/cheezfreek57/DSC09020.jpg > > >>> http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee86/cheezfreek57/DSC09012.jpg > > >>> > > >>> -Eric > > >>> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15816	From: jim heckard	Date: 1/8/2011
Subject: Re: Grant Hobbycraft

Duane,          Some quick questions.       Did the Grant Hobbycraft passenger cars have there own made trucks and did they come with the cars ?       Since it was a separate company what do you know about Hobbycraft of Canada ?  Did they sell or make HO trains ?       Thanks in advance.                                                Jim H   ----- Original Message ----- From: Duane Porter To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2011 8:47 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Grant Hobbycraft   Jim I just looked at your pictures in the attachments section. What you have there photos of the full baggage car, which buy the way the CPR never had in the budd style only in smooth side, the dormitory baggage combination car that you thought might be a rpo, the coach and the manor class sleeping car that you thought might be the diner. As for the A units I have no idea where or who painted them. Of the two sets of A & B units that I do have they are both painted different. One set is pained the maroon and grey with yellow pin striping and the other is painted maroon and silver with yellow pin striping, the same silver that they used to paint the passenger cars with. By the way Grant Hobbycraft and Hobbycraft of Canada are two different company's Duane Porter Halifax & SouthWestern Railway Museum Lunenburg Nova Scotia Canada --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> wrote: > > Duane, > > Thanks for the response and the information about the F-9 A&B units and the new diesel pictures you just added. I was just taking the information off one of the larger ads ( starts " At last " ) about the diesel units and the freight cars. It states the diesels are Canadian built and is why I asked about the bodies being plastic. You mention about the A unit being a Hobbytown drive and that ad mentions powered by a DC-90 motor which, if I remember that number right, was mainly used for O gauge but was used on some HO. Hobbytown used it in their powered E units that I know of. > > I have 6 CPR style Grant Hobbycraft cars. ( When I bought them the previous owner told me the company was Hobbycraft of Canada and I had no reason to believe otherwise The recent post and the picture of an original box has changed that.) I will have to check again which styles of passenger cars I have. I know there are 4 different styles with two doubles. I bought them with no trucks but still not detailed with the plastic detail parts still in little bags but no O/B's. There was only one piece of paperwork with them that showed you, dependant on the type of car, where to add the bottom detail plastic parts and in what pre drilled holes. ( I just posted pictures under attachments a couple of days ago. ) > > I find all the information interesting and useful for filling in the history of a lesser known vintage HO item. I would like to add at least a powered A unit to my collection. I am wondering if the bodies came factory painted or did Grant Hobbycraft custom paint them or have someone do it ? > > Jim H > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Duane Porter > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2011 7:17 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Grant Hobbycraft > > > > Jim > I don't know anything about the freight cars however I do have 2 sets of the F9 A&B units. Right now I am at home and the units are over at the museum but from my memory I believe that the A unit is a Hobbytown of Boston drive with a plastic shell. The B unit is also plastic with a plastic under-frame and wheels and my be from a different manufacture. > They, from what can tell, were known for buying others product and packaging it under their own label. > I will post some pictures of the engine that I have here on my laptop and will try and get some fresh ones as soon as I can. > What styles of passenger cars do you have. What I have is the full baggage, dorm baggage, coach, the manor class sleeper and the observation car which is really different because the windows are punch out in the style of the dome observation park car but it just has regular end door and no dome. A style that the CPR never had. I have only seen the tiny picture of the dome car that is in one of the adds that I posted, Oct. 56, and a picture of the dining car that Eric has posted on another site. > > Duane Porter > Halifax & SouthWestern Railway Museum > Lunenburg Nova Scotia Canada > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@> wrote: > > > > Duane, > > > > I checked out those photos for the Grant Hobbycraft. Thanks for showing them. They contain good HO vintage information especially the years they were made. While I have a few passenger cars I didn't realize they made freight and powered diesels based on GM F9 A&B with a DC-90 motor and 8 wheel drive built in Canada. I would be interested to know if the bodies are plastic ? Where the bodies also made in Canada or did they use someone's already made bodies ? Would love to dig out an A&B set myself. > > > > Jim H > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Duane Porter > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2011 11:21 AM > > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Grant Hobbycraft > > > > > > > > Eric and everyone > > I have created a section in the photos > > called Grant Hobbycraft and have put in there some scans of their > > Model Railroader adds from 1956 & 1957. I also included a pic of the > > Canadian set that they produced. I bought this set some time ago as I > > have been collecting these cars for may years now. I have them in both > > the CP & CN versions. I will post more pictures of them soon. > > > > Duane Porter > > Halifax & SouthWestern Railway Museum > > Lunenburg Nova Scotia Canada > > > > On 28-Dec-10, at 2:08 AM, cheez_eric wrote: > > > > > If that's the case, I'm surprised the line was never picked up by > > > another company. Any idea if the CN cars came pre-painted? The CP > > > cars I've seen came unpainted with the decals in the box for the > > > owner to install. I'd imagine the CN versions would be similar. I'll > > > have to keep an eye out for more of these. > > > > > > Thanks! > > > Eric > > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Duane Porter" <duaneporter@> > > > wrote: > > >> > > >> Eric and all > > >> > > >> From what I was told about Grant Hobbycraft by a modeler friend of > > >> mine in the Toronto area who has since passed away, they only ever > > >> did one production run of passenger cars. There are two different > > >> styles that were made and both are specifically replicating > > >> Canadian prototypes. The first one is the one that we saw in your > > >> pictures that is replicating the style of Budd cars that the CPR > > >> purchased in the 1950's. These cars are still being used by VIA > > >> Rail today. The second style that was produced was smooth sided and > > >> were painted in the CNR green, black, and gold pin striping. > > >> > > >> Duane Porter > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "cheez_eric" <cheez_eric@> wrote: > > >>> > > >>> Hey everyone. I was told that if anyone could give me info on some > > >>> vintage trains, it would be you guys. :D I have a number of metal > > >>> streamliners made by a Canadian company called "Grant Hobbycraft > > >>> and Toys Limited". Other than a floor diagram on HOseeker, there > > >>> doesn't seem to be a single thing on the net about them. Does > > >>> anyone here know anything about the company? > > >>> > > >>> Here are a few pics: > > >>> > > >>> http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee86/cheezfreek57/DSC09019.jpg > > >>> http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee86/cheezfreek57/DSC09020.jpg > > >>> http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee86/cheezfreek57/DSC09012.jpg > > >>> > > >>> -Eric > > >>> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15817	From: Duane Porter	Date: 1/8/2011
Subject: Re: Grant Hobbycraft

Jim Yes they did have their own truck that had a spring mechanism on a tail piece opposite coupler that allowed the coupler to swing tight curves. These trucks came on the ready to run models. Thats what those springs that you have in your parts picture are for. I'll upload some more photos. Hobbycraft of Canada is still in business and makes the trueline series of Canadian freight cars and engines. Duane Porter Halifax & SouthWestern Railway Museum Lunenburg Nova Scotia Canada --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> wrote: > > Duane, > > Some quick questions. > > Did the Grant Hobbycraft passenger cars have there own made trucks and did they come with the cars ? > > Since it was a separate company what do you know about Hobbycraft of Canada ? Did they sell or make HO trains ? > > Thanks in advance.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15818	From: jim heckard	Date: 1/9/2011
Subject: Re: Grant Hobbycraft

Duane,       Thank you again for the pictures and the responses to my questions. I appreciate them very much. I will print out our exchange and add it to my note books for future reference. Always available if I can return the favor.                                                                          Jim H ----- Original Message ----- From: Duane Porter To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2011 9:49 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Grant Hobbycraft   Jim Yes they did have their own truck that had a spring mechanism on a tail piece opposite coupler that allowed the coupler to swing tight curves. These trucks came on the ready to run models. Thats what those springs that you have in your parts picture are for. I'll upload some more photos. Hobbycraft of Canada is still in business and makes the trueline series of Canadian freight cars and engines. Duane Porter Halifax & SouthWestern Railway Museum Lunenburg Nova Scotia Canada --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> wrote: > > Duane, > > Some quick questions. > > Did the Grant Hobbycraft passenger cars have there own made trucks and did they come with the cars ? > > Since it was a separate company what do you know about Hobbycraft of Canada ? Did they sell or make HO trains ? > > Thanks in advance.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15819	From: Duane Porter	Date: 1/9/2011
Subject: Re: Grant Hobbycraft

Your welcome Jim. Grant Hobbycraft cars is a subject that is very dear to my heart. It was the CPR that I fell in love with as a teenager when I first started in the hobby back in the 60's. The CPR was the company that had all the Budd cars and I would get to ride them across Canada out to BC from Ottawa when we went to visit family. But here's the problem. When It came to getting a model of the CPR Budd cars the only thing that was on the market was cars from US manufactures that did not come close to the unique style that the CPR Budd cars had. So as a teenager I try'd to kitbash what I could get to make them closer to the CPR cars. I still have them and admire them for what they represent to me as the effort put forth in honing my skill as a model railroader. Anyway when I found out that that there had been a Canadian manufacture of the Budd cars that I really wanted then I started looking for them. I have a small fleet of them now, 37 of them and I plan run them on the new HO model railroad that I am building in my museum. The museum is about the Halifax & SouthWestern Railway that ran along the South Shore here in Nova Scotia and along with the artifacts form this railway line I have a 2,000 sq.ft. S scale layout depicting what the line looked like. So because I have this public model railroad display I end up getting donations of old trains. I've been getting allot of old HO that I have been putting up on display so you will for sure be hearing from me in the future. Duane Porter Halifax & SouthWestern Railway Museum Lunenburg Nova Scotia Canada --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> wrote: > > Duane, > > Thank you again for the pictures and the responses to my questions. I appreciate them very much. I will print out our exchange and add it to my note books for future reference. Always available if I can return the favor. > > Jim H > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Duane Porter > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2011 9:49 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Grant Hobbycraft > > > > Jim > Yes they did have their own truck that had a spring mechanism on a tail piece opposite coupler that allowed the coupler to swing tight curves. These trucks came on the ready to run models. Thats what those springs that you have in your parts picture are for. I'll upload some more photos. > > Hobbycraft of Canada is still in business and makes the trueline series of Canadian freight cars and engines. > > Duane Porter > Halifax & SouthWestern Railway Museum > Lunenburg Nova Scotia Canada > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@> wrote: > > > > Duane, > > > > Some quick questions. > > > > Did the Grant Hobbycraft passenger cars have there own made trucks and did they come with the cars ? > > > > Since it was a separate company what do you know about Hobbycraft of Canada ? Did they sell or make HO trains ? > > > > Thanks in advance. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15820	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 1/9/2011
Subject: Re: OSTUCO decals

Hi John, I just sent $15.25 ($7.00 x 2 plus $1.25 for shipping) for TWO sets via Paypal.  I think Paypal provides my shipping address,but if not, let me know and I will send it to you. I sincerely hope your surgery goes well. Thanks and regards, Vic Bitleris Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: sprinthag@... Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 22:09:49 -0600 Subject: [vintageHO] OSTUCO decals   I received my Walthers car today. Cut up a set of decals printed on plain paper and they all fit fine. I will be printing a test set in the next 3 days or so to make certain there aren’t any strange looking lettering or other problems. Then I can print production sets starting sometime next week. The sets will include decals for both cars and will be $7.00/set. Wisconsin residents will have to add 5.5% ($0.39) for sales tax (sorry but I am a company now).  I’m not certain on postage but I’ll be mailing them first class as that is much cheaper than the flat-rate Priority Mail ($4.90).  First class, with a stiffener (cardboard) included, will run $0.98 to $1.25 so if you include $1.25 per order (NOT per set) that’ll cover it.   BTW, the logo for the Walthers car set does look sorta wide sitting out there all by its self but it fits easily betwixt the ribs, as does the prototype. And it is narrower than either the Varney or the drawing of the prototype in the article.   You may start sending me payment and your mailing information at any time. I will be in the hospital for the next couple of days (surgery on my leg) which is why I won’t be able to start the production until next week. I do have the email sent me by various members saved and after I finish the run, anyone whose data I have not received will receive a reminder email from me.   Oh yes, Don or anyone else that happen to be local (Milwaukee area) can pick them up from me and pay me at the time of pickup.   Checks can be made out to John Hagen or OBS-CALS. If you prefer you can pay me via PayPal, using my email address (sprinthag@...). Be sure to also send me an email so I know to look for the payment.   My mailing address is; 4017 S. Shannon Avenue Saint Francis, WI 53235-4725   Thank you all for this your support.   John Hagen

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15821	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 1/10/2011
Subject: More on matching paint

I recently needed to match the PRR Tuscan paint on a Blue Line car. I'm sure there are other folks out there with these Blue Line cars with poor paint. Being the paint is 60 years old this complicates things and is a dicey business at best. However, I managed to get really lucky and get very close. The following formula may not be exactly as I used as I wasn't as precise as I would have liked to have been. However, this is a very good place to start: Scale Coat Tuscan 5 parts; SC White 2 parts; SC Oxide Red 1 part. No doubt either the Scale Coat I or their Formula II would work color-wise, but do not use the Formula I over a Floquil Lt. Gray acrylic undercoat. It does not dry well. The Scale Coat II works well with that gray as it is made for plastics and seems to do well with acrylics. I did use the Floquil Lt. Gray as an undercoat and recommend it for paint jobs in general. I'm sure Scale Coat makes a great undercoat also.   Art W

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15822	From: CinderCrusher	Date: 1/10/2011
Subject: Re: More on matching paint

Art, I have found that when painting brass locomotives that I can use Scalecoat I #10 Black as a primer. This dries with a high gloss and is very smooth. After it is completely dry, (I can no longer smell it), I come back with a black and gray mixture of either Scalecoat or Floquil for the finish coat. The Scalecoat I base coat is very durable and doesn't rub off with handling like Floquil does. I would presume that a light gray in the Scalecoat I line would work well for other colors. Bill DeFoe --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, luvprr@... wrote: > > do not use the Formula I over a Floquil Lt. Gray acrylic undercoat. It > does not dry well. The Scale Coat II works well with that gray as it is made > for plastics and seems to do well with acrylics. I did use the Floquil Lt. > Gray as an undercoat and recommend it for paint jobs in general. I'm sure > Scale Coat makes a great undercoat also. > > Art W >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15823	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 1/10/2011
Subject: Re: More on matching paint

Bill, You're right. Apparently Scalecoat I is great for metals. When I want to use Floquil paint on brass or metals I use the acrylic (water soluble) gray Floquil undercoat. I agree that most Floquil paints rub off metals easily. I couldn't find any Floquil that would stay on metal worth a darn till I visited the Doylestown Car Company here in town a few years ago (O gauge brass trolley cars) where the builder used the acrylic Floquil gray undercoat on brass as a preference as that paint sticks well and gives you a non-shiny, flat finish which is great for other paints--including Scalecoat II. I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't seen it myself as brass is a bear to paint with many model paints as you know. I've since used the Floquil gray with great success though I do make sure the metal is thoroughly cleaned first.   Art   In a message dated 1/10/2011 7:58:19 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, defoe242@... writes: Art, I have found that when painting brass locomotives that I can use Scalecoat I #10 Black as a primer.  This dries with a high gloss and is very smooth.  After it is completely dry, (I can no longer smell it), I come back with a black and gray mixture of either Scalecoat or Floquil for the finish coat.  The Scalecoat I base coat is very durable and doesn't rub off with handling like Floquil does. I would presume that a light gray in the Scalecoat I line would work well for other colors. Bill DeFoe --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, luvprr@... wrote: > > do  not use the Formula I over a Floquil Lt. Gray acrylic undercoat. It > does not dry  well. The Scale Coat II works well with that gray as it is made > for  plastics and seems to do well with acrylics. I did use the Floquil Lt. > Gray as  an undercoat and recommend it for paint jobs in general. I'm sure > Scale  Coat makes a great undercoat also. >  > Art W > ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings:     Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join     (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email:     vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com     vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:     vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15824	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 1/11/2011
Subject: Re: OSTUCO decals

Hi Guys..   Losly following the discussion here....Is this the same OST car?   I have this one, but I ayways wanted to make more of these:   http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/4286812930/in/set-72157623116890157/   Sean   1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: sprinthag@... Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 22:09:49 -0600 Subject: [vintageHO] OSTUCO decals   I received my Walthers car today. Cut up a set of decals printed on plain paper and they all fit fine. I will be printing a test set in the next 3 days or so to make certain there aren’t any strange looking lettering or other problems. Then I can print production sets starting sometime next week. The sets will include decals for both cars and will be $7.00/set. Wisconsin residents will have to add 5.5% ($0.39) for sales tax (sorry but I am a company now).  I’m not certain on postage but I’ll be mailing them first class as that is much cheaper than the flat-rate Priority Mail ($4.90).  First class, with a stiffener (cardboard) included, will run $0.98 to $1.25 so if you include $1.25 per order (NOT per set) that’ll cover it.   BTW, the logo for the Walthers car set does look sorta wide sitting out there all by its self but it fits easily betwixt the ribs, as does the prototype. And it is narrower than either the Varney or the drawing of the prototype in the article.   You may start sending me payment and your mailing information at any time. I will be in the hospital for the next couple of days (surgery on my leg) which is why I won’t be able to start the production until next week. I do have the email sent me by various members saved and after I finish the run, anyone whose data I have not received will receive a reminder email from me.   Oh yes, Don or anyone else that happen to be local (Milwaukee area) can pick them up from me and pay me at the time of pickup.   Checks can be made out to John Hagen or OBS-CALS. If you prefer you can pay me via PayPal, using my email address (sprinthag@...). Be sure to also send me an email so I know to look for the payment.   My mailing address is; 4017 S. Shannon Avenue Saint Francis, WI 53235-4725   Thank you all for this your support.   John Hagen

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15825	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 1/11/2011
Subject: Re: OSTUCO decals

Hi Sean, Yes, that is the idea.  Your car does not look like the Varney car.  In fact, it looks like you have decals on it.  Did you build this car or modify a 46' USRA gondola?  Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: a69mustang4me@... Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2011 09:03:31 -0800 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] OSTUCO decals   Hi Guys..   Losly following the discussion here....Is this the same OST car?   I have this one, but I ayways wanted to make more of these:   http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/4286812930/in/set-72157623116890157/   Sean   1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: sprinthag@... Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 22:09:49 -0600 Subject: [vintageHO] OSTUCO decals   I received my Walthers car today. Cut up a set of decals printed on plain paper and they all fit fine. I will be printing a test set in the next 3 days or so to make certain there aren’t any strange looking lettering or other problems. Then I can print production sets starting sometime next week. The sets will include decals for both cars and will be $7.00/set. Wisconsin residents will have to add 5.5% ($0.39) for sales tax (sorry but I am a company now).  I’m not certain on postage but I’ll be mailing them first class as that is much cheaper than the flat-rate Priority Mail ($4.90).  First class, with a stiffener (cardboard) included, will run $0.98 to $1.25 so if you include $1.25 per order (NOT per set) that’ll cover it.   BTW, the logo for the Walthers car set does look sorta wide sitting out there all by its self but it fits easily betwixt the ribs, as does the prototype. And it is narrower than either the Varney or the drawing of the prototype in the article.   You may start sending me payment and your mailing information at any time. I will be in the hospital for the next couple of days (surgery on my leg) which is why I won’t be able to start the production until next week. I do have the email sent me by various members saved and after I finish the run, anyone whose data I have not received will receive a reminder email from me.   Oh yes, Don or anyone else that happen to be local (Milwaukee area) can pick them up from me and pay me at the time of pickup.   Checks can be made out to John Hagen or OBS-CALS. If you prefer you can pay me via PayPal, using my email address (sprinthag@...). Be sure to also send me an email so I know to look for the payment.   My mailing address is; 4017 S. Shannon Avenue Saint Francis, WI 53235-4725   Thank you all for this your support.   John Hagen

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15826	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 1/11/2011
Subject: Re: OSTUCO decals

Hi Vic,   It is a Varney car, but someone else did it and it does have decals.   I have had it for about 4-5 years now. I would guess the paint to be ~20-30 years old, so I have no way of knowing.   No plans to ever part with it.   Sean   1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! From: Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> To: vintageho@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, January 11, 2011 12:20:09 PM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] OSTUCO decals   Hi Sean, Yes, that is the idea.  Your car does not look like the Varney car.  In fact, it looks like you have decals on it.  Did you build this car or modify a 46' USRA gondola?  Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: a69mustang4me@... Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2011 09:03:31 -0800 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] OSTUCO decals   Hi Guys..   Losly following the discussion here....Is this the same OST car?   I have this one, but I ayways wanted to make more of these:   http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/4286812930/in/set-72157623116890157/   Sean   1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: sprinthag@... Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 22:09:49 -0600 Subject: [vintageHO] OSTUCO decals   I received my Walthers car today. Cut up a set of decals printed on plain paper and they all fit fine. I will be printing a test set in the next 3 days or so to make certain there aren’t any strange looking lettering or other problems. Then I can print production sets starting sometime next week. The sets will include decals for both cars and will be $7.00/set. Wisconsin residents will have to add 5.5% ($0.39) for sales tax (sorry but I am a company now).  I’m not certain on postage but I’ll be mailing them first class as that is much cheaper than the flat-rate Priority Mail ($4.90).  First class, with a stiffener (cardboard) included, will run $0.98 to $1.25 so if you include $1.25 per order (NOT per set) that’ll cover it.   BTW, the logo for the Walthers car set does look sorta wide sitting out there all by its self but it fits easily betwixt the ribs, as does the prototype. And it is narrower than either the Varney or the drawing of the prototype in the article.   You may start sending me payment and your mailing information at any time. I will be in the hospital for the next couple of days (surgery on my leg) which is why I won’t be able to start the production until next week. I do have the email sent me by various members saved and after I finish the run, anyone whose data I have not received will receive a reminder email from me.   Oh yes, Don or anyone else that happen to be local (Milwaukee area) can pick them up from me and pay me at the time of pickup.   Checks can be made out to John Hagen or OBS-CALS. If you prefer you can pay me via PayPal, using my email address (sprinthag@...). Be sure to also send me an email so I know to look for the payment.   My mailing address is; 4017 S. Shannon Avenue Saint Francis, WI 53235-4725   Thank you all for this your support.   John Hagen

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15827	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 1/11/2011
Subject: Re: OSTUCO decals

Hi again Sean, Well, you have a very special car.  It may indeed be a Varney gondola, but it is not any of the versions of the Varney Ostuco gondola that I have seen floating around.  Mine doesn't even have the H beam/I beam structure.  All of the Varney versions I have seen are 42 footers.  Some have a squared off structure, like yours, and others have a more rounded structure, but most of the Varney cars just have a plain old gondola end at both ends.  Yours looks like a 46 or 47 footer.  I suspect yours was kit bashed from some other Varney Gondola.  But, in any case, it is really cool and might be a candidate for upgrading by using the decals John Hagen is making for us. Thanks for showing us this really cool and unique car. Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: a69mustang4me@... Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2011 09:33:38 -0800 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] OSTUCO decals   Hi Vic,   It is a Varney car, but someone else did it and it does have decals.   I have had it for about 4-5 years now. I would guess the paint to be ~20-30 years old, so I have no way of knowing.   No plans to ever part with it.   Sean   1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! From: Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> To: vintageho@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, January 11, 2011 12:20:09 PM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] OSTUCO decals   Hi Sean, Yes, that is the idea.  Your car does not look like the Varney car.  In fact, it looks like you have decals on it.  Did you build this car or modify a 46' USRA gondola?  Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: a69mustang4me@... Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2011 09:03:31 -0800 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] OSTUCO decals   Hi Guys..   Losly following the discussion here....Is this the same OST car?   I have this one, but I ayways wanted to make more of these:   http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/4286812930/in/set-72157623116890157/   Sean   1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: sprinthag@... Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 22:09:49 -0600 Subject: [vintageHO] OSTUCO decals   I received my Walthers car today. Cut up a set of decals printed on plain paper and they all fit fine. I will be printing a test set in the next 3 days or so to make certain there aren’t any strange looking lettering or other problems. Then I can print production sets starting sometime next week. The sets will include decals for both cars and will be $7.00/set. Wisconsin residents will have to add 5.5% ($0.39) for sales tax (sorry but I am a company now).  I’m not certain on postage but I’ll be mailing them first class as that is much cheaper than the flat-rate Priority Mail ($4.90).  First class, with a stiffener (cardboard) included, will run $0.98 to $1.25 so if you include $1.25 per order (NOT per set) that’ll cover it.   BTW, the logo for the Walthers car set does look sorta wide sitting out there all by its self but it fits easily betwixt the ribs, as does the prototype. And it is narrower than either the Varney or the drawing of the prototype in the article.   You may start sending me payment and your mailing information at any time. I will be in the hospital for the next couple of days (surgery on my leg) which is why I won’t be able to start the production until next week. I do have the email sent me by various members saved and after I finish the run, anyone whose data I have not received will receive a reminder email from me.   Oh yes, Don or anyone else that happen to be local (Milwaukee area) can pick them up from me and pay me at the time of pickup.   Checks can be made out to John Hagen or OBS-CALS. If you prefer you can pay me via PayPal, using my email address (sprinthag@...). Be sure to also send me an email so I know to look for the payment.   My mailing address is; 4017 S. Shannon Avenue Saint Francis, WI 53235-4725   Thank you all for this your support.   John Hagen

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15828	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 1/11/2011
Subject: Re: OSTUCO decals

Hi Vic,   I think someone altered the end, but they did a very nice job at it. The decal is a definate giv-away of it not being factory. I have always thought it to be a pretty cool car.. to bad I just have it boxed up and in storage for now. I would consider a repaint, but most likely never will. I have NO need for any more projects right now and i can see what would happen.. I would srtip the paint off, set it down and something else would come along...and thee it would sit...for years...   I will keep it just as it is and use it an an inspiration and example for my future projects when I do not have so much going on.   I am considering those decals by the way.   Sean   1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! From: Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> To: vintageho@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, January 11, 2011 12:56:57 PM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] OSTUCO decals   Hi again Sean, Well, you have a very special car.  It may indeed be a Varney gondola, but it is not any of the versions of the Varney Ostuco gondola that I have seen floating around.  Mine doesn't even have the H beam/I beam structure.  All of the Varney versions I have seen are 42 footers.  Some have a squared off structure, like yours, and others have a more rounded structure, but most of the Varney cars just have a plain old gondola end at both ends.  Yours looks like a 46 or 47 footer.  I suspect yours was kit bashed from some other Varney Gondola.  But, in any case, it is really cool and might be a candidate for upgrading by using the decals John Hagen is making for us. Thanks for showing us this really cool and unique car. Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: a69mustang4me@... Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2011 09:33:38 -0800 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] OSTUCO decals   Hi Vic,   It is a Varney car, but someone else did it and it does have decals.   I have had it for about 4-5 years now. I would guess the paint to be ~20-30 years old, so I have no way of knowing.   No plans to ever part with it.   Sean   1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! From: Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> To: vintageho@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, January 11, 2011 12:20:09 PM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] OSTUCO decals   Hi Sean, Yes, that is the idea.  Your car does not look like the Varney car.  In fact, it looks like you have decals on it.  Did you build this car or modify a 46' USRA gondola?  Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: a69mustang4me@... Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2011 09:03:31 -0800 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] OSTUCO decals   Hi Guys..   Losly following the discussion here....Is this the same OST car?   I have this one, but I ayways wanted to make more of these:   http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/4286812930/in/set-72157623116890157/   Sean   1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: sprinthag@... Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 22:09:49 -0600 Subject: [vintageHO] OSTUCO decals   I received my Walthers car today. Cut up a set of decals printed on plain paper and they all fit fine. I will be printing a test set in the next 3 days or so to make certain there aren’t any strange looking lettering or other problems. Then I can print production sets starting sometime next week. The sets will include decals for both cars and will be $7.00/set. Wisconsin residents will have to add 5.5% ($0.39) for sales tax (sorry but I am a company now).  I’m not certain on postage but I’ll be mailing them first class as that is much cheaper than the flat-rate Priority Mail ($4.90).  First class, with a stiffener (cardboard) included, will run $0.98 to $1.25 so if you include $1.25 per order (NOT per set) that’ll cover it.   BTW, the logo for the Walthers car set does look sorta wide sitting out there all by its self but it fits easily betwixt the ribs, as does the prototype. And it is narrower than either the Varney or the drawing of the prototype in the article.   You may start sending me payment and your mailing information at any time. I will be in the hospital for the next couple of days (surgery on my leg) which is why I won’t be able to start the production until next week. I do have the email sent me by various members saved and after I finish the run, anyone whose data I have not received will receive a reminder email from me.   Oh yes, Don or anyone else that happen to be local (Milwaukee area) can pick them up from me and pay me at the time of pickup.   Checks can be made out to John Hagen or OBS-CALS. If you prefer you can pay me via PayPal, using my email address (sprinthag@...). Be sure to also send me an email so I know to look for the payment.   My mailing address is; 4017 S. Shannon Avenue Saint Francis, WI 53235-4725   Thank you all for this your support.   John Hagen

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15829	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/11/2011
Subject: Re: OSTUCO decals

That's the puppy. John did decals to duplicate that car, and also to do a second car that is more prototypical based on published plans. The decal set does one of each. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sean Naylor" <a69mustang4me@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 11:03 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] OSTUCO decals Hi Guys.. Losly following the discussion here....Is this the same OST car? I have this one, but I ayways wanted to make more of these: http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/4286812930/in/set-72157623116890157/ Sean 1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: sprinthag@... Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 22:09:49 -0600 Subject: [vintageHO] OSTUCO decals I received my Walthers car today. Cut up a set of decals printed on plain paper and they all fit fine. I will be printing a test set in the next 3 days or so to make certain there aren’t any strange looking lettering or other problems. Then I can print production sets starting sometime next week. The sets will include decals for both cars and will be $7.00/set. Wisconsin residents will have to add 5.5% ($0.39) for sales tax (sorry but I am a company now). I’m not certain on postage but I’ll be mailing them first class as that is much cheaper than the flat-rate Priority Mail ($4.90). First class, with a stiffener (cardboard) included, will run $0.98 to $1.25 so if you include $1.25 per order (NOT per set) that’ll cover it. BTW, the logo for the Walthers car set does look sorta wide sitting out there all by its self but it fits easily betwixt the ribs, as does the prototype. And it is narrower than either the Varney or the drawing of the prototype in the article. You may start sending me payment and your mailing information at any time. I will be in the hospital for the next couple of days (surgery on my leg) which is why I won’t be able to start the production until next week. I do have the email sent me by various members saved and after I finish the run, anyone whose data I have not received will receive a reminder email from me. Oh yes, Don or anyone else that happen to be local (Milwaukee area) can pick them up from me and pay me at the time of pickup. Checks can be made out to John Hagen or OBS-CALS. If you prefer you can pay me via PayPal, using my email address (sprinthag@...). Be sure to also send me an email so I know to look for the payment. My mailing address is; 4017 S. Shannon Avenue Saint Francis, WI 53235-4725 Thank you all for this your support. John Hagen

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15830	From: Don Grant	Date: 1/11/2011
Subject: Fwd: Video proof that Unintended Acceleration is the cars fault, not

Attachments : female_driver_compilation.wmv I like the one going through the security gate: >

@@attachment@@

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15831	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 1/11/2011
Subject: Must be uber-rare

http://cgi.ebay.com/MDC-ROUNDHOUSE-40-BOX-CAR-ITC-6304-NEW-KIT_W0QQitemZ110633811938QQcategoryZ484QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp4340.m263QQ_trkparmsZalgo%3DSI%26its%3DI%252BC%26itu%3DUCI%252BUA%252BFICS%26otn%3D10%26pmod%3D260714840983%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D6308058165842188346 MDC boxcar kit for $3300 bucks. Top-rated seller.........I'd hate to see a bottom-rated seller!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15832	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/11/2011
Subject: Re: Must be uber-rare

I emailed the seller questioning it in a hopefully good natured manner. If you look at his other auctions, right before it is a covered hopper kit from the same "limited run" "fallen flag" series with an opening bid of $ 2.99. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "trainsnwrcs" <idioticyahoo@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 11:23 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Must be uber-rare > http://cgi.ebay.com/MDC-ROUNDHOUSE-40-BOX-CAR-ITC-6304-NEW-KIT_W0QQitemZ110633811938QQcategoryZ484QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp4340.m263QQ_trkparmsZalgo%3DSI%26its%3DI%252BC%26itu%3DUCI%252BUA%252BFICS%26otn%3D10%26pmod%3D260714840983%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D6308058165842188346 > > MDC boxcar kit for $3300 bucks. > Top-rated seller.........I'd hate to see a bottom-rated seller! > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15833	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 1/12/2011
Subject: Re: Must be uber-rare

I can just imagine what eBay charged the fellow for his insertion fees, based on that minimum bid! Be careful out there, this almost happened to me too, when I was listing some stuff once, and something jammed under a key on my laptop. Glad I caught it at the last minute. -Steve Neubaum --- On Wed, 1/12/11, Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote: From: Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Must be uber-rare To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, January 12, 2011, 12:40 AM   I emailed the seller questioning it in a hopefully good natured manner. If you look at his other auctions, right before it is a covered hopper kit from the same "limited run" "fallen flag" series with an opening bid of $ 2.99. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "trainsnwrcs" <idioticyahoo@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 11:23 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Must be uber-rare > http://cgi.ebay.com/MDC-ROUNDHOUSE-40-BOX-CAR-ITC-6304-NEW-KIT_W0QQitemZ110633811938QQcategoryZ484QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp4340.m263QQ_trkparmsZalgo%3DSI%26its%3DI%252BC%26itu%3DUCI%252BUA%252BFICS%26otn%3D10%26pmod%3D260714840983%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D6308058165842188346 > > MDC boxcar kit for $3300 bucks. > Top-rated seller.........I'd hate to see a bottom-rated seller! > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15834	From: My-Yahoo-Groups	Date: 1/12/2011
Subject: Re: Must be uber-rare

 I once bid $7500.00 for a Marx engine & caboose. I tried to cancel the bid but the auction ended. I emailed the guy and told him I mis-bid. He still wanted me to buy the item at it's final sale price of $135.00. Told him I couldn't do it ... $75.00 was my top bid that I could afford. I think he sold it to the next high bidder. Gotta watch that damn decimal point!   Steve W. www.prrh.org www.marx-trains.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Stephen Neubaum To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2011 8:19 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Must be uber-rare   I can just imagine what eBay charged the fellow for his insertion fees, based on that minimum bid! Be careful out there, this almost happened to me too, when I was listing some stuff once, and something jammed under a key on my laptop. Glad I caught it at the last minute. -Steve Neubaum --- On Wed, 1/12/11, Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote: From: Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Must be uber-rare To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, January 12, 2011, 12:40 AM   I emailed the seller questioning it in a hopefully good natured manner. If you look at his other auctions, right before it is a covered hopper kit from the same "limited run" "fallen flag" series with an opening bid of $ 2.99. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "trainsnwrcs" <idioticyahoo@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 11:23 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Must be uber-rare > http://cgi.ebay.com/MDC-ROUNDHOUSE-40-BOX-CAR-ITC-6304-NEW-KIT_W0QQitemZ110633811938QQcategoryZ484QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp4340.m263QQ_trkparmsZalgo%3DSI%26its%3DI%252BC%26itu%3DUCI%252BUA%252BFICS%26otn%3D10%26pmod%3D260714840983%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D6308058165842188346 > > MDC boxcar kit for $3300 bucks. > Top-rated seller.........I'd hate to see a bottom-rated seller! > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15835	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 1/12/2011
Subject: Re: Must be uber-rare

3d 4h left.....still at $3300. Maybe he (or she) doesn't understand "good-natured" manners? Sell 10 of those and go to Tahiti for a month. > > I emailed the seller questioning it in a hopefully good natured manner. If > you look at his other auctions, right before it is a covered hopper kit from > the same "limited run" "fallen flag" series with an opening bid of $ 2.99. > > Don > > Don Dellmann > don.dellmann@... > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ > http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction > Owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "trainsnwrcs" <idioticyahoo@...> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 11:23 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Must be uber-rare > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/MDC-ROUNDHOUSE-40-BOX-CAR-ITC-6304-NEW-KIT_W0QQitemZ110633811938QQcategoryZ484QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp4340.m263QQ_trkparmsZalgo%3DSI%26its%3DI%252BC%26itu%3DUCI%252BUA%252BFICS%26otn%3D10%26pmod%3D260714840983%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D6308058165842188346 > > > > MDC boxcar kit for $3300 bucks. > > Top-rated seller.........I'd hate to see a bottom-rated seller! > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15836	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 1/12/2011
Subject: Re: Must be uber-rare

My bid for this was meant to be $111.11   Anyone want to guess what I actually typed?   BRASS VARNEY 2 8 2 ENGINE WITH TENDER. Needless to say... It is still a mighty fine locomotive and looks good sitting on my display shelf here at work...  First time in 10+ years I ever did that. Think I got off pretty lucky if you ask me... Hopefully it was the last time too...   Sean   1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! From: My-Yahoo-Groups <yahoo-groups@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, January 12, 2011 9:37:39 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Must be uber-rare    I once bid $7500.00 for a Marx engine & caboose. I tried to cancel the bid but the auction ended. I emailed the guy and told him I mis-bid. He still wanted me to buy the item at it's final sale price of $135.00. Told him I couldn't do it ... $75.00 was my top bid that I could afford. I think he sold it to the next high bidder. Gotta watch that damn decimal point!   Steve W. www.prrh.org www.marx-trains.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Stephen Neubaum To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2011 8:19 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Must be uber-rare   I can just imagine what eBay charged the fellow for his insertion fees, based on that minimum bid! Be careful out there, this almost happened to me too, when I was listing some stuff once, and something jammed under a key on my laptop. Glad I caught it at the last minute. -Steve Neubaum --- On Wed, 1/12/11, Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote: From: Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Must be uber-rare To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, January 12, 2011, 12:40 AM   I emailed the seller questioning it in a hopefully good natured manner. If you look at his other auctions, right before it is a covered hopper kit from the same "limited run" "fallen flag" series with an opening bid of $ 2.99. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "trainsnwrcs" <idioticyahoo@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 11:23 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Must be uber-rare > http://cgi.ebay.com/MDC-ROUNDHOUSE-40-BOX-CAR-ITC-6304-NEW-KIT_W0QQitemZ110633811938QQcategoryZ484QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp4340.m263QQ_trkparmsZalgo%3DSI%26its%3DI%252BC%26itu%3DUCI%252BUA%252BFICS%26otn%3D10%26pmod%3D260714840983%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D6308058165842188346 > > MDC boxcar kit for $3300 bucks. > Top-rated seller.........I'd hate to see a bottom-rated seller! > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15837	From: madchemep2@aol.com	Date: 1/12/2011
Subject: Re: Fwd: Video proof that Unintended Acceleration is the cars fault,

OMG!!! I have two of them on the shelf in the basement. Al Campbell

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15838	From: Don Grant	Date: 1/12/2011
Subject: Re: Fwd: Video proof that Unintended Acceleration is the cars fault,

Misplaced keystroke while multitasking.  Fun, but not related to group. Sorry, Don --- On Wed, 1/12/11, madchemep2@... <madchemep2@...> wrote:

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15839	From: Randolph Torres	Date: 1/13/2011
Subject: FOR SALE HO

Quality Craft HO kits blowout sale: Quality Craft Wood kit 70Ton Lumber Box Car                                                    5.99 Quality Craft Wood kit 85' Trailer Train Piggy Back Flat 2in1 kit                   5.99 Quality Craft Wood kit Masurie Pacific Express Box                                         5.99 Quality Craft Wood kit Norfolk & Western 86' HyCube Box                          5.99 Quality Craft Wood kit Penn Central 4 Door HyCube Box                                               5.99 Quality Craft Wood kit Pennsylvania Railroad 4 Door Box 86' HyCube BX               5.99 Quality Craft Wood kit F40' Automobile Pensylvania Railroad  Box          5.99 Quality Craft Wood kit 86' Penn Central 8 Door HyCube Box                        5.99 Quality Craft Wood kit Pensylvania Railroad 86'4 Door HyCube Box         5.99 Quality Craft Wood kit Pennsylvania Railroad H-31 Hop                                                5.99 Quality Craft Wood kit Bulkhead Flat 2in1 Kit                                                     5.99 2 truck plastic Depressed Center flat (unknown mfg.)                                    5.99 Kits held for 7 days after end of sale, Pay Pal and Money Order only are accepted as payment. Contact me off group for availability basr244t@....

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15840	From: Larry	Date: 1/13/2011
Subject: Re: Must be uber-rare

Must have been a typo as it now stands at $ 2.99. I happen to model the Illinois Terminal and I have several of these. They are not rare by any means, but if anyone wants to offer me $3,300.00 for one, I will cover the shipping.  =^U^=   Larry Miller III --- On Tue, 1/11/11, trainsnwrcs <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: From: trainsnwrcs <idioticyahoo@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Must be uber-rare To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, January 11, 2011, 11:23 PM http://cgi.ebay.com/MDC-ROUNDHOUSE-40-BOX-CAR-ITC-6304-NEW-KIT_W0QQitemZ110633811938QQcategoryZ484QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp4340.m263QQ_trkparmsZalgo%3DSI%26its%3DI%252BC%26itu%3DUCI%252BUA%252BFICS%26otn%3D10%26pmod%3D260714840983%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D6308058165842188346 MDC boxcar kit for $3300 bucks. Top-rated seller.........I'd hate to see a bottom-rated seller! ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings:     Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join     (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email:     vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com     vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:     vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15841	From: SaltNPepper WhoKnows	Date: 1/13/2011
Subject: Re: Must be uber-rare - Details about item: sent a message about MDC

FWIW:  Here's the sellers reply to my question regarding the price......     From: pennat_esi5849raz@... Subject: Re: Details about item: prandn sent a message about MDC ROUNDHOUSE 40' BOX CAR ITC #6304 NEW KIT #110633811938                         eBay sent this message to Loren Martell (prandn). Your registered name is included to show this message originated from eBay. Learn more. Seller has responded to your question about this item Do not respond to the sender if this message requests that you complete the transaction outside of eBay. This type of offer is against eBay policy, may be fraudulent, and is not covered by buyer protection programs. Learn More.                         Dear , SORRY: SICK THE DAY I ENTERED THESE, THEN THREE DAYS MORE, NVR CHECKD MY AUCTIONS, PRICE NOW FIXED, AGAIN, SORRY - penna_track Click "respond" to reply through Messages, or go to your email to reply From: prandn To: penna_track Subject: Details about item: prandn sent a message about MDC ROUNDHOUSE 40' BOX CAR ITC #6304 NEW KIT #110633811938 Sent Date: Jan-12-11 06:59:43 PST                                                 Dear penna_track, The opening price seems way out of line for an item like this. Is this really the actual price or do you not really want to sell this item or is it something else? Looking forward to your reply.                                                                                               MDC ROUNDHOUSE 40' BOX CAR ITC #6304 NEW KIT Item Id: 110633811938 End time: Jan-15-11 13:41:35 PST Seller: penna_track (1387) 100.0% Positive Feedback Member since Jun-28-01 in United States Location: OH, United States Listing Status: This message was sent while the listing was active. Here are more items from this seller ATHEARN 50' BOX CAR B&O #475324 NEW RTR KATO GP-35 DIESEL SP #6023 NEW NEVER RUN ATLAS U33C DIESEL PENN CENTRAL PC #6540 NEVER RUN MDC ROUNDHOUSE OFFSET TRIPLE HOPPERS C&O 6 PK NEW KITS ATLAS C30-7 DIESEL N&W #8025 NEW NEVER RUN 1 Bid $7.99 Shipping: +$6.00 0 Bids $69.99 Shipping: +$8.00 0 Bids $47.50 Shipping: +$8.00 0 Bids $29.99 Shipping: +$8.50 0 Bids $47.50 Shipping: +$8.00 Visit seller's other items                                     Marketplace Safety Tip Keep your money safe - never pay for items with cash or instant money transfer services, such as Western Union or MoneyGram. In the past some sellers have exploited these payment methods in order to defraud buyers, so eBay has banned them from the site. Received a Second Chance Offer email? Double check that it's genuine: Second Chance Offer emails come directly from eBay and are shown in your My Messages. Trade safely. Beware of anyone who contacts you about buying or selling outside of eBay. When you trade outside of eBay, you're not able to leave feedback or take advantage of protection programs and case resolution tools available on eBay. Report an inappropriate email. eBay helps guard your privacy and online safety when you use our messaging tools. If you and the member you're contacting haven't bought or sold from each other recently, our tools may make both of your email addresses anonymous. Email reference id: [#a03-luqoqj62du#]_[#7cd63a11222a4eb59ffb15eed1d3a11b#] Please don't remove this number. eBay customer support may ask you for this number, if you should need assistance Learn More to protect yourself from spoof (fake) emails. Another eBay member sent this email to saltnpepper69@... through the eBay platform. eBay takes no liability for the sending of this email or its content Visit our Privacy Policy and User Agreement if you have any questions. You can report this message as unsolicited (spam/spoof) email. Copyright © 2010 eBay Inc. All Rights Reserved. Designated trademarks and brands are the property of their respective owners. eBay and the eBay logo are trademarks of eBay Inc. eBay Inc. is located at 2145 Hamilton Avenue, San Jose, CA 95125.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15842	From: toytrain13	Date: 1/14/2011
Subject: American Beauty paint scheme

I have an American Beauty kit for a "shorty" mail-baggage car (courtesy of Art W.) with unlettered sides in orange with a broad brown stripe, and three yellow pinstripes. I thought at first that this might be a Milwaukee Road paint scheme, but research showed that to be incorrect. I'm now thinking that this might be a "freelance" paint scheme, since AB usually lettered their car sides. Can anyone help me with this? Thanks- Richard W.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15843	From: 69_Mustang_Man	Date: 1/14/2011
Subject: PING to RUSS SHEIL!

G'Day Mate! I hope this message finds you safe and dry down under there! What is happening there sounds pretty scary! Sean

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15844	From: Richard Kurz	Date: 1/14/2011
Subject: Re: American Beauty paint scheme

Sounds Like maybe Illinois Central.......

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15845	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/14/2011
Subject: Re: American Beauty paint scheme

Can you post a photo? Thanks Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "toytrain13" <toytrain13@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, January 14, 2011 11:09 AM Subject: [vintageHO] American Beauty paint scheme >I have an American Beauty kit for a "shorty" mail-baggage car (courtesy of >Art W.) with unlettered sides in orange with a broad brown stripe, and >three yellow pinstripes. I thought at first that this might be a Milwaukee >Road paint scheme, but research showed that to be incorrect. I'm now >thinking that this might be a "freelance" paint scheme, since AB usually >lettered their car sides. Can anyone help me with this? Thanks- Richard W. > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15846	From: Richard White	Date: 1/14/2011
Subject: Photo of American Beauty sides

Attachments : AB sides.jpg Here's a photo of the American Beauty sides in question. I see now that what I thought was a brown stripe is actually Pullman Green. Regards- Richard W.

@@attachment@@

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15847	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 1/14/2011
Subject: Re: Photo of American Beauty sides

GN, isn't it? > Here's a photo of the American Beauty sides in question. I see now that what I thought was a brown stripe is actually Pullman Green. > Regards- Richard W. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15848	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/14/2011
Subject: Re: Photo of American Beauty sides [1 Attachment]

That looks "sort of" like Illinois Central, although the letterboard would also be brown. When I googled "Illinois Central Passenger Car" under images I did come up with a Lionel picture that looked like that. I wonder if someone painted out the IC lettering on the letterboard. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard White" <toytrain13@...> To: <vintageho@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, January 14, 2011 6:44 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Photo of American Beauty sides [1 Attachment] Here's a photo of the American Beauty sides in question. I see now that what I thought was a brown stripe is actually Pullman Green. Regards- Richard W.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15849	From: Richard White	Date: 1/14/2011
Subject: Re: Photo of American Beauty sides

Not Illinois Central- on the AB sides the "brown" is actually Pullman Green. It has been pointed out to me that it is Great Northern, but the stripe placement is wrong- for GN the Pullman Green stripe should be much narrower, and below the belt line, not encompassing the windows. The three yellow pinstripes indicate GN, though. Maybe it is Great Northern "inspired!" I have one AB Great Northern car, the pendulum car, and the paint scheme is correct for GN on it. -Richard W.     To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: don.dellmann@... Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 19:18:45 -0600 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Photo of American Beauty sides   That looks "sort of" like Illinois Central, although the letterboard would also be brown. When I googled "Illinois Central Passenger Car" under images I did come up with a Lionel picture that looked like that. I wonder if someone painted out the IC lettering on the letterboard. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard White" <toytrain13@...> To: <vintageho@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, January 14, 2011 6:44 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Photo of American Beauty sides [1 Attachment] Here's a photo of the American Beauty sides in question. I see now that what I thought was a brown stripe is actually Pullman Green. Regards- Richard W.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15850	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 1/15/2011
Subject: A recent "AS IS" HO aquisition.

Hi Guys, I recently made a purchase that I instantly regretted when it arrived. The body of this email may be considered off-topic, but I needed to share it. The situation is both funny and absolutely disgusting. I do want to make clear however, I, in no way intend for this topic to balloon into some huge eBay hating debate. I will however, leave it up to you to decide about future purchases from this seller.   Here it is:       Coal Tipples 230568966642   I originally purchased it because I wanted the wooden coal tower. It looked good from the front, but the there was no mention in the listing of the damage done to the piece. following:   When I complained to the seller, Here was his response: Me:   " Hello, Before I file a claim, I want you to know, the tipples came today and when I turned the wood one over (which is the only one I wanted) I saw the large HOLE in the back that had been CHEWED into it by the structures previous resident. Upon somewhat close inspection under a light, I was able to see the mouse crap stuck to the walls on the inside of the upper wood structure. I am throwing this in the trash and will be expecting a full and complete refund, including shipping. This is completely disgusting and completely un-called for. Thanks! Sean " Seller:   " The hole can be fixed and the auction states sold as is also could have parts missing or broke. So do what ever u want. There is no refund in which is also stated on my auction. The plastic coal tipple alone is worth $10.00. This is what the auction says:(The wood 1 needs some pieces reglued and some pieces missing. Sold as is.) These pieces were from a collection I got. "   Me:   "Dear overr1, Just to tell you how this is going to work. This will go in the trash. A claim will be immediately forthcoming with full disclosure on my part about the mouse hole with excrement stuck to the interior surfaces of the item. That claim will be immediately escalated to allow eBay & PayPal to assess the evidence and your correspondence. I will allow them to decide. As IS also means you need to be sure you disclose everything. I could care less about the hole. It is the mouse/rat remains inside that hole that really disgust me. I washed my hands tree times after handling the item and plan to NO more. Thank you. Sean - a69mustang4me   "   Seller:   " Well this is how's this going to go in my part. U are just a little cry baby. The only way u going to get your money back is u need to send both coal tipples back to me. This kind of issue happened before and I won. " Email I received this morning from Ebay/Paypal:   "Hi a69mustang4me, Good news! We issued you a refund of $15.20 on Jan 14, 2011 to the PayPal account you used to purchase this item. The refund includes the purchase price plus original shipping. Please log in to PayPal to get your refund. This case is now closed, but you can view the details of the case in the Resolution Center." Sean

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15851	From: RalphB	Date: 1/15/2011
Subject: I knew it wasn't Varney

I received a hopper car in the mail yesterday. It had been identified by the eBay seller as a Varney car, but I knew it wasn't. I checked the HOSeeker site first and it appears that Varney only offered 2-bay open hoppers; the car on eBay was a 4-bay car. The photo was a little fuzzy, but it looked exactly like all the other Athearn 4-bay hoppers that I already have. On the positive side, I wanted another Athearn B&O 4-bay hopper for my coal train. While it's close to the W-2a class cars of the late 20's, I figure at least some of them had to last long enough to be seen with the later W-7 class cars which are represented by the MDC Roundhouse and Stewart 3-bay cars and Accurail W-9 class. Accurail offers decals for renumbering their cars so I ordered a set. Instead of using each 6-digit number as it comes on the sheet, I'll cut individual digits out and use them to renumber six times as many cars. Ralph B

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15852	From: jim heckard	Date: 1/15/2011
Subject: eBay Rivarossi Hiawatha

Sean,  All             I know you were busy fighting your case with eBay and maybe didn't have time to see where the bidding on the item we were talking about ended.  300512750901  HO  Rivarossi Hiawatha Steam Engine. It was an incomplete engine ( no valve gear, rods, motor or drive) and minus the tender. I told you it was the factory painted body that was most important. Even if I had bid the $400 I originally planned I would have lost it. This item, especially the factory painted body, always goes for nice sums as you can see. I've seen the complete engine and tender go for $1500 ( poor to fair ) - $2000 and up for top of the line. I once saw this engine / tender with the full set of original cars up with a start of $5000. Yes originally Rivarossi had a full set of passenger cars which I have only seen once. Pretty nice prices for a non brass item.      Now before anyone jumps the gun this IS NOT the set that Walthers just came out with. This is the original HO item  that Rivarossi made back around 1950 and that Lionel was going to sell ( engine / tender only ) to match their O gauge item and even advertised it but then never did. However , along with Rivarossi, Polk's Hobby did sell it under their Aristo Rossi label.       This is one of those engines I talked about that many have no knowledge of. I am again sharing the information so if anyone sees one they know what it is even though it might hurt my chances of finding one in the end. I would rather see them preserved.       Down the road that Walther's issue will complicate trying to decide which is which if one comes on eBay.                                                       Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15853	From: ckinzer@att.net	Date: 1/15/2011
Subject: Re: A recent "AS IS" HO aquisition.

Rambling thoughts (from a frequent ebay user)...   Interesting.  You might be surprised at my take on this.  But, for as shady as this seller appears, I think he was wronged.   "As-is" is "as-is".  However, I would agree that would be nullified if a fraud was committed.  And that may be the case here.   However, he has every right to have the item returned for the refund and not just give a refund.  If you aren't going to accept the item, it is not yours to throw away.  The seller may not know how really bad it is and why should he let you keep something "for free".  I believed you erred there.   In this case, Pay Pal sided with you and I hear that Pay Pal almost always goes against sellers.  And that's one of the reasons some sellers refuse to use Pay Pal.   I suggest that in such cases the first message give the benefit of the doubt (the seller may not have known how tacky the item is.  Some of these folks handle a lot of merchandise).  Also, not to include irrelevant information (such as it was the only part of the auction you were interested in).  And not unilaterally declare something that, from the sellers point of view, would seem absurd (such as throwing away the item AND expecting a refund).  Also, I would avoid capitalized shouting, vitriol, or sarcasm.  In many cases this just sets up a "who is more macho" exchange.  Of course, if that's the real goal, then fine and dandy.  If you want a quick resolution, perhaps not.   Other than the notion that you might get a happier resolution perhaps more quickly, it is otherwise self serving.  A seller who feels abused (rightly or wrongly) will tend to put you on their "block bidders" list.  Then they might have something you really want, perhaps without mouse droppings and such, and you will be barred.   But, after first trying to be nice, if the other guy then steps up to the plate as a jerk, I would then proceed to be not nice.  I could just walk away, but I am a fan of accountability so I do press issues and follow through.      Chuck Kinzer     ----- Original Message ----- From: Sean Naylor To: yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com ; vintageho@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, January 15, 2011 1:29 AM Subject: [vintageHO] A recent "AS IS" HO aquisition.   Hi Guys, I recently made a purchase that I instantly regretted when it arrived. The body of this email may be considered off-topic, but I needed to share it. The situation is both funny and absolutely disgusting. I do want to make clear however, I, in no way intend for this topic to balloon into some huge eBay hating debate. I will however, leave it up to you to decide about future purchases from this seller.   Here it is:       Coal Tipples 230568966642   I originally purchased it because I wanted the wooden coal tower. It looked good from the front, but the there was no mention in the listing of the damage done to the piece. following:   When I complained to the seller, Here was his response: Me:   " Hello, Before I file a claim, I want you to know, the tipples came today and when I turned the wood one over (which is the only one I wanted) I saw the large HOLE in the back that had been CHEWED into it by the structures previous resident. Upon somewhat close inspection under a light, I was able to see the mouse crap stuck to the walls on the inside of the upper wood structure. I am throwing this in the trash and will be expecting a full and complete refund, including shipping. This is completely disgusting and completely un-called for. Thanks! Sean " Seller:   " The hole can be fixed and the auction states sold as is also could have parts missing or broke. So do what ever u want. There is no refund in which is also stated on my auction. The plastic coal tipple alone is worth $10.00. This is what the auction says:(The wood 1 needs some pieces reglued and some pieces missing. Sold as is.) These pieces were from a collection I got. "   Me:   "Dear overr1, Just to tell you how this is going to work. This will go in the trash. A claim will be immediately forthcoming with full disclosure on my part about the mouse hole with excrement stuck to the interior surfaces of the item. That claim will be immediately escalated to allow eBay & PayPal to assess the evidence and your correspondence. I will allow them to decide. As IS also means you need to be sure you disclose everything. I could care less about the hole. It is the mouse/rat remains inside that hole that really disgust me. I washed my hands tree times after handling the item and plan to NO more. Thank you. Sean - a69mustang4me   "   Seller:   " Well this is how's this going to go in my part. U are just a little cry baby. The only way u going to get your money back is u need to send both coal tipples back to me. This kind of issue happened before and I won. " Email I received this morning from Ebay/Paypal:   "Hi a69mustang4me, Good news! We issued you a refund of $15.20 on Jan 14, 2011 to the PayPal account you used to purchase this item. The refund includes the purchase price plus original shipping. Please log in to PayPal to get your refund. This case is now closed, but you can view the details of the case in the Resolution Center." Sean

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15854	From: erieberk	Date: 1/15/2011
Subject: Re: American Beauty paint scheme

In checking out your photo of the car in questions, I too thought it was orange with a broad BROWN stripe as this is the way itlooks to me. But if on your closer inspection, you can tell that it's really Pullman Green, this would be GN colors, but GN did not have a broad Pullman Green window stripe. Their scheme was orange with a Pullman Green letter board for the road name above the windows, and a somewhat narrower Pullman Green stripe below the windows for the car names. If it helps on future acquisitions, American Beauty never offered cars in Milwaukee Road paint. Yes, American Beauty USUALLY -- but not always -- lettered their cars. With the help of Chuck Higdon on here, I put an American Beauty spreadsheet up in the files on this list; it would seem that you didn't look far enough. While the color schemes are described, admittedly, there are no diagrams to show the actual schemes nor do the colors indicate "wide, "narrow" or other widths of the bands. The color scheme you have is not of any prototype railroad that AB produced. Can you tell if the paint is factory painted? Or is the paint too good to tell whether or not it's factory painted, when some skilled modeler may have painted it? Unknown to most AB collectors, this manufacturer produced a series of passenger cars, in both 85' and your shorty 65', "DO-IT-YOURSELF-SERIES" -- priced at only 50 cents less that their factory-prototype-painted cars. Aside from some modelers preferring to letter them for their private road, most modelers preferrred to buy their favorite prototype colors, which is why these cars are exceedingly rare. So if nothing else comes of this, your consolation is that you have a rare car (as it seems that's what you have, as just described), even within the American Beauty line of cars. Unless you can determine that the car was painted be a modeler, it does appear as though your shorty AB car was cataloged in the "XS" catalog lettering/numbering series (for the D-I-Y-S Series I mentioned above), with the Mail Baggage being XS-2. If you had the box, it would indicate this catalog number on the end of it. There was no lettering on them, but the modeler's choice of 24 different road name decals was offered -- by American Beauty -- with these kits, for 25 cents more. Ray F.W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "toytrain13" <toytrain13@...> wrote: > > I have an American Beauty kit for a "shorty" mail-baggage car (courtesy of Art W.) with unlettered sides in orange with a broad brown stripe, and three yellow pinstripes. I thought at first that this might be a Milwaukee Road paint scheme, but research showed that to be incorrect. I'm now thinking that this might be a "freelance" paint scheme, since AB usually lettered their car sides. Can anyone help me with this? Thanks- Richard W. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15855	From: Richard White	Date: 1/15/2011
Subject: Re: American Beauty paint scheme

Thank you Ray, for researching this for me. My car definitely has a factory-paint job. Note that the glued in door are also Pullman Green, matching the stripe color. The original box (gray) has a label "MAIL BAGGAGE" glued on over where the catalog number would have been. "Short" has been penned in across that label. The instruction sheet, which may or may not be the original, is on yellow paper, titled "HO GAUGE BAGGAGE CARS," and is illustrated for a full-length car. I am assembling this car now, after having made some missing pieces (the end blocks) and I will paint the roof and side skirts in Pullman Green, and the underbody in black. I am going to "guesstimate" the locations of the underbody details, as the pieces for a full-length car won't all fit on this "shorty" car. As I mentioned earlier, I am grateful to Art W., who made this car available to me. Regards- Richard W.   To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: erieberk@... Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2011 20:26:05 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Re: American Beauty paint scheme   In checking out your photo of the car in questions, I too thought it was orange with a broad BROWN stripe as this is the way itlooks to me. But if on your closer inspection, you can tell that it's really Pullman Green, this would be GN colors, but GN did not have a broad Pullman Green window stripe. Their scheme was orange with a Pullman Green letter board for the road name above the windows, and a somewhat narrower Pullman Green stripe below the windows for the car names. If it helps on future acquisitions, American Beauty never offered cars in Milwaukee Road paint. Yes, American Beauty USUALLY -- but not always -- lettered their cars. With the help of Chuck Higdon on here, I put an American Beauty spreadsheet up in the files on this list; it would seem that you didn't look far enough. While the color schemes are described, admittedly, there are no diagrams to show the actual schemes nor do the colors indicate "wide, "narrow" or other widths of the bands. The color scheme you have is not of any prototype railroad that AB produced. Can you tell if the paint is factory painted? Or is the paint too good to tell whether or not it's factory painted, when some skilled modeler may have painted it? Unknown to most AB collectors, this manufacturer produced a series of passenger cars, in both 85' and your shorty 65', "DO-IT-YOURSELF-SERIES" -- priced at only 50 cents less that their factory-prototype-painted cars. Aside from some modelers preferring to letter them for their private road, most modelers preferrred to buy their favorite prototype colors, which is why these cars are exceedingly rare. So if nothing else comes of this, your consolation is that you have a rare car (as it seems that's what you have, as just described), even within the American Beauty line of cars. Unless you can determine that the car was painted be a modeler, it does appear as though your shorty AB car was cataloged in the "XS" catalog lettering/numbering series (for the D-I-Y-S Series I mentioned above), with the Mail Baggage being XS-2. If you had the box, it would indicate this catalog number on the end of it. There was no lettering on them, but the modeler's choice of 24 different road name decals was offered -- by American Beauty -- with these kits, for 25 cents more. Ray F.W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "toytrain13" <toytrain13@...> wrote: > > I have an American Beauty kit for a "shorty" mail-baggage car (courtesy of Art W.) with unlettered sides in orange with a broad brown stripe, and three yellow pinstripes. I thought at first that this might be a Milwaukee Road paint scheme, but research showed that to be incorrect. I'm now thinking that this might be a "freelance" paint scheme, since AB usually lettered their car sides. Can anyone help me with this? Thanks- Richard W. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15856	From: jerrygart5	Date: 1/15/2011
Subject: Re: A recent "AS IS" HO aquisition.

Sean-Good for you!! Sounds as tho the seller may be related to the contents of your coal tipple. . . . Thanks for the heads-up!! Jerry Garteiser --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > Hi Guys, > I recently made a purchase that I instantly regretted when it arrived. The body > of this email may be considered off-topic, but I needed to share it. > > > > Coal Tipples > 230568966642 > > > {Snip} >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15857	From: jim heckard	Date: 1/15/2011
Subject: American Beauty Shorty Bottom Detail

Attachments : IMG_6667_3.JPG IMG_6666_2.JPG IMG_6665_1.JPG Hi Richard W,       These are pictures of the bottom detail for American Beauty Shorty passenger cars. I don't have a scanner so if these pictures are not helpful I will send you a copy if needed.  You can see it says to "Use this plan for Shorties"      I also have the roof detail plan for the Mail Baggage car Shorty if needed.      Hope this helps.                                             Jim H

@@attachment@@

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15858	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 1/15/2011
Subject: Re: A recent "AS IS" HO aquisition.

So, just to be clear, the seller we should avoid is overr1? Thanks and regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com; vintageho@yahoogroups.com From: a69mustang4me@... Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2011 01:29:42 -0800 Subject: [vintageHO] A recent "AS IS" HO aquisition.   Hi Guys, I recently made a purchase that I instantly regretted when it arrived. The body of this email may be considered off-topic, but I needed to share it. The situation is both funny and absolutely disgusting. I do want to make clear however, I, in no way intend for this topic to balloon into some huge eBay hating debate. I will however, leave it up to you to decide about future purchases from this seller.   Here it is:       Coal Tipples 230568966642   I originally purchased it because I wanted the wooden coal tower. It looked good from the front, but the there was no mention in the listing of the damage done to the piece. following:   When I complained to the seller, Here was his response: Me:   " Hello, Before I file a claim, I want you to know, the tipples came today and when I turned the wood one over (which is the only one I wanted) I saw the large HOLE in the back that had been CHEWED into it by the structures previous resident. Upon somewhat close inspection under a light, I was able to see the mouse crap stuck to the walls on the inside of the upper wood structure. I am throwing this in the trash and will be expecting a full and complete refund, including shipping. This is completely disgusting and completely un-called for. Thanks! Sean " Seller:   " The hole can be fixed and the auction states sold as is also could have parts missing or broke. So do what ever u want. There is no refund in which is also stated on my auction. The plastic coal tipple alone is worth $10.00. This is what the auction says:(The wood 1 needs some pieces reglued and some pieces missing. Sold as is.) These pieces were from a collection I got. "   Me:   "Dear overr1, Just to tell you how this is going to work. This will go in the trash. A claim will be immediately forthcoming with full disclosure on my part about the mouse hole with excrement stuck to the interior surfaces of the item. That claim will be immediately escalated to allow eBay & PayPal to assess the evidence and your correspondence. I will allow them to decide. As IS also means you need to be sure you disclose everything. I could care less about the hole. It is the mouse/rat remains inside that hole that really disgust me. I washed my hands tree times after handling the item and plan to NO more. Thank you. Sean - a69mustang4me   "   Seller:   " Well this is how's this going to go in my part. U are just a little cry baby. The only way u going to get your money back is u need to send both coal tipples back to me. This kind of issue happened before and I won. " Email I received this morning from Ebay/Paypal:   "Hi a69mustang4me, Good news! We issued you a refund of $15.20 on Jan 14, 2011 to the PayPal account you used to purchase this item. The refund includes the purchase price plus original shipping. Please log in to PayPal to get your refund. This case is now closed, but you can view the details of the case in the Resolution Center." Sean

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15859	From: Richard White	Date: 1/15/2011
Subject: Re: American Beauty Shorty Bottom Detail [3 Attachments]

Thanks, Jim. I was able to print your attachments and that will work just fine. I already have the roof detail plan. I appreciate your help. Regards- Richard W.   To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: jimheck@... Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2011 17:57:03 -0500 Subject: [vintageHO] American Beauty Shorty Bottom Detail [3 Attachments]   [Attachment(s) from jim heckard included below] Hi Richard W,       These are pictures of the bottom detail for American Beauty Shorty passenger cars. I don't have a scanner so if these pictures are not helpful I will send you a copy if needed.  You can see it says to "Use this plan for Shorties"      I also have the roof detail plan for the Mail Baggage car Shorty if needed.      Hope this helps.                                             Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15860	From: dennyanspach	Date: 1/16/2011
Subject: Re: eBay Rivarossi Hiawatha

The original Rivarossi "Hiawatha" 4-4-2 is pretty crude, to say the least.  Denny Denny S.  Anspach MD Sacramento

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15861	From: jim heckard	Date: 1/16/2011
Subject: Re: eBay Rivarossi Hiawatha

I will agree that for a person seeking a highly detailed HO engine a streamlined Rivarossi 4-4-2 Hiawatha might not for them.  However for a vintage collector it doesn't matter if some might think it is crude. ( I believe it's on a par with other streamlined engines at the time like the Penn Line Crusader. ) It's a matter of taste but it is an extremely hard to find factory painted item and highly collectable engine that draws high prices.         To me it had one of the nicest working drive mechanisms at the time even using a miniature ball bearing set up to support the drive shaft. If you ever take one apart be ready as those little balls can fall out if not careful.                                                                   Jim H ----- Original Message ----- From: dennyanspach To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2011 12:54 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: eBay Rivarossi Hiawatha   The original Rivarossi "Hiawatha" 4-4-2 is pretty crude, to say the least.  Denny Denny S.  Anspach MD Sacramento

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15862	From: CinderCrusher	Date: 1/16/2011
Subject: Help Identifying Locomotive

Hi all, I just acquired a brass B&O Ten Wheeler that was made in Japan and I would like to know more about the company. It appears strongly built and of a quality comparable to PFM and Akane. Very nicely detailed for a locomotive which I suspect was built in the sixties. The box is almost destroyed and falling apart but it states that it was built for The HO Train Co. of Philadelphia. I've posted three photos in the Photo section in my "Cinder Valley" album. I would appreciate any info. Bill DeFoe

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15863	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 1/16/2011
Subject: AC Gilbert Drive Wheels

Group, I have an AC Gilbert 4-6-4 Hudson locomotive, a later issue with the separate driver wheel treads, the kind that came with "whitewalls" as I call them. The treads are loose from the wheels, and are causing a short when they touch the rail and frame simultaneously. Anyone know of a good way to re-mount the treads? The hobby shop owner suggested J-B Weld, but I don't think the wheels/axles come out of the frame. I think I would need a wheel puller for that. Any advice? -Steve Neubaum

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15864	From: John Hagen	Date: 1/16/2011
Subject: OSTUCO Decals

Well, here’s the skinny. I was keeping everyone well updated until about noon Wednesday from my nice, WI-Fi equipped room at Froedtert Memorial Hospital. That was when the nice young men from Bell drove me from the hospital to Willowcrest Care Center, a sub-acute care facility in South Milwaukee. And what is “Sub-Acute?”  That’s insurance-speak a nursing home that has added rehab services to its PT and OT areas.  Since they are not acute-care facilities (Hospitals) they can’t charge as much for their rather meager-by-comparison services. Plus the insurance can consider them “Tier 2” facilities so they can charge higher deductibles and a nice 30% co-pay, saving themselves a bunch of cash that, for the most part, us, the victims of their corporate greed, get to pay. Interesting that during my 6-day stay, the hospital, in their insurance company flattering ways are want to do, were in such a hurry to get me out, that I was officially discharged twice (that I’m positive of, I think it was 3 times) before my true day of departure arrived. Anyway, once here, I fired up my trusty laptop only to discover there is no internet access for the in-mates…………..oops, I meant PATIENTS.  So now I had lost my connection to the outside world. Oh I still had my cell (no phones for the in-mates either) but I soon discovered that I did not have Don’s number with me and couldn’t locate it with my usual methods (same goes for you, Bauers). Well after getting some wildly overpriced , for my meager means at least, bids on service here, I found out that TWC is now offering WI-FI service to their customers. At $5.00/month for 2 years plus a onetime $25.00 hook-up. And for that they came in today (Sunday), installed a modem to get me up and running. It’s not really WI-FI yet as many health-care facilities still have problems with interference with wire-free stuff so this is a network cable deal until I go home. Then they will install the WI-Fi system at home, all included in the same price. So how does all this affect the decals? Well, da printer(s) I use are still at home.  But as of Tuesday, one of them will be here and printing will commence - - - - - I think. Failing that, I have some computer savvy sons, one or the other of which will go to my house and, with the phone on speaker, will follow my step-by-step instructions to do the printing. I shouldn’t be here more than two weeks but then I didn’t think I would not go home a day or two after the surgery. Thing is I really pushed myself to get the artwork done. In fact, I did the layout work over the weekend. So now it is all set to be printed and I really want it out ASAP. The artwork was on the challenging side so to get it to the point as quickly as I did is something I want to show in the speed of getting the finished product out. Thank you for your patience, John Hagen

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15865	From: Daryl Olszeski	Date: 1/16/2011
Subject: Re: AC Gilbert Drive Wheels

A few well placed drops of a gap filling super glue should do the trick!!  That works on the S gauge version. Daryl On 1/16/2011 8:37 PM, Stephen Neubaum wrote:   Group, I have an AC Gilbert 4-6-4 Hudson locomotive, a later issue with the separate driver wheel treads, the kind that came with "whitewalls" as I call them. The treads are loose from the wheels, and are causing a short when they touch the rail and frame simultaneously. Anyone know of a good way to re-mount the treads? The hobby shop owner suggested J-B Weld, but I don't think the wheels/axles come out of the frame. I think I would need a wheel puller for that. Any advice? -Steve Neubaum

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15866	From: Glenn	Date: 1/16/2011
Subject: Re: AC Gilbert Drive Wheels

JB Weld is conductive—you need insulation there—the “whitewalls” provide that—CA should do the jom—get the tire, whitewall,and center lined up squarwe-then flow the CA in.  Check with an NMRA gauge.   gj   From: Stephen Neubaum Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2011 5:37 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] AC Gilbert Drive Wheels   Group, I have an AC Gilbert 4-6-4 Hudson locomotive, a later issue with the separate driver wheel treads, the kind that came with "whitewalls" as I call them. The treads are loose from the wheels, and are causing a short when they touch the rail and frame simultaneously. Anyone know of a good way to re-mount the treads? The hobby shop owner suggested J-B Weld, but I don't think the wheels/axles come out of the frame. I think I would need a wheel puller for that. Any advice? -Steve Neubaum

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15867	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 1/16/2011
Subject: Re: OSTUCO Decals

Thanks for the update John.  Mostly we wish you to get well soon.  There is no rush for the decals. Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: sprinthag@... Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2011 20:19:03 -0600 Subject: [vintageHO] OSTUCO Decals   Well, here’s the skinny. I was keeping everyone well updated until about noon Wednesday from my nice, WI-Fi equipped room at Froedtert Memorial Hospital. That was when the nice young men from Bell drove me from the hospital to Willowcrest Care Center, a sub-acute care facility in South Milwaukee. And what is “Sub-Acute?”  That’s insurance-speak a nursing home that has added rehab services to its PT and OT areas.  Since they are not acute-care facilities (Hospitals) they can’t charge as much for their rather meager-by-comparison services. Plus the insurance can consider them “Tier 2” facilities so they can charge higher deductibles and a nice 30% co-pay, saving themselves a bunch of cash that, for the most part, us, the victims of their corporate greed, get to pay. Interesting that during my 6-day stay, the hospital, in their insurance company flattering ways are want to do, were in such a hurry to get me out, that I was officially discharged twice (that I’m positive of, I think it was 3 times) before my true day of departure arrived. Anyway, once here, I fired up my trusty laptop only to discover there is no internet access for the in-mates…………..oops, I meant PATIENTS.  So now I had lost my connection to the outside world. Oh I still had my cell (no phones for the in-mates either) but I soon discovered that I did not have Don’s number with me and couldn’t locate it with my usual methods (same goes for you, Bauers). Well after getting some wildly overpriced , for my meager means at least, bids on service here, I found out that TWC is now offering WI-FI service to their customers. At $5.00/month for 2 years plus a onetime $25.00 hook-up. And for that they came in today (Sunday), installed a modem to get me up and running. It’s not really WI-FI yet as many health-care facilities still have problems with interference with wire-free stuff so this is a network cable deal until I go home. Then they will install the WI-Fi system at home, all included in the same price. So how does all this affect the decals? Well, da printer(s) I use are still at home.  But as of Tuesday, one of them will be here and printing will commence - - - - - I think. Failing that, I have some computer savvy sons, one or the other of which will go to my house and, with the phone on speaker, will follow my step-by-step instructions to do the printing. I shouldn’t be here more than two weeks but then I didn’t think I would not go home a day or two after the surgery. Thing is I really pushed myself to get the artwork done. In fact, I did the layout work over the weekend. So now it is all set to be printed and I really want it out ASAP. The artwork was on the challenging side so to get it to the point as quickly as I did is something I want to show in the speed of getting the finished product out. Thank you for your patience, John Hagen

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15868	From: Dale Smith	Date: 1/16/2011
Subject: Re: AC Gilbert Drive Wheels

Coincidentally, someone posted a reply to a similar question on the S-trains list very recently and the detailed advice quoted below should also work well on Gilbert HO. "If it is not too greasy, you can slide the tire toward the chassis and put a small bit of super glue around the white insulator and quickly press the tire back onto the insulator. Steve SnS Traiins....Boise" Dale Smith On 1/16/2011 5:37 PM, Stephen Neubaum wrote:   Group, I have an AC Gilbert 4-6-4 Hudson locomotive, a later issue with the separate driver wheel treads, the kind that came with "whitewalls" as I call them. The treads are loose from the wheels, and are causing a short when they touch the rail and frame simultaneously. Anyone know of a good way to re-mount the treads? The hobby shop owner suggested J-B Weld, but I don't think the wheels/axles come out of the frame. I think I would need a wheel puller for that. Any advice? -Steve Neubaum

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15869	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 1/16/2011
Subject: Re: AC Gilbert Drive Wheels

So it sounds like superglue is the way to go then. I am not sure if what I have on hand will work on metal, but I will go and get something from the LHS that will, for sure, work. Thanks all! -Steve Neubaum --- On Sun, 1/16/11, Dale Smith <dfsmith26@...> wrote: From: Dale Smith <dfsmith26@...> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] AC Gilbert Drive Wheels To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, January 16, 2011, 9:16 PM   Coincidentally, someone posted a reply to a similar question on the S-trains list very recently and the detailed advice quoted below should also work well on Gilbert HO. "If it is not too greasy, you can slide the tire toward the chassis and put a small bit of super glue around the white insulator and quickly press the tire back onto the insulator. Steve SnS Traiins....Boise" Dale Smith On 1/16/2011 5:37 PM, Stephen Neubaum wrote:   Group, I have an AC Gilbert 4-6-4 Hudson locomotive, a later issue with the separate driver wheel treads, the kind that came with "whitewalls" as I call them. The treads are loose from the wheels, and are causing a short when they touch the rail and frame simultaneously. Anyone know of a good way to re-mount the treads? The hobby shop owner suggested J-B Weld, but I don't think the wheels/axles come out of the frame. I think I would need a wheel puller for that. Any advice? -Steve Neubaum

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15870	From: Donald R. Staton	Date: 1/17/2011
Subject: Re: AC Gilbert Drive Wheels

If the tires are greasy, clean them with alcohol or mineral spirits.  Lacquer thinner will work well if you have it.  If the tire will spin on the white insulator, spin it after applying the cleaner to spread the cleaner and dissolve the grease/oil...  Clean the white tire with a pipe cleaner...  Continue until you get no oil or grease residue on the pipe cleaner...  Then apply the glue.  Even a latex based glue like Pliobond or Walthers Goo will also work...  Apply, let set until it will not stick to your finger and then twist the tire into place.  This works great on S gauge also.  Happy railroading... Don Staton in Va. ====================================================================================================== On 1/16/2011 10:19 PM, Stephen Neubaum wrote:   So it sounds like superglue is the way to go then. I am not sure if what I have on hand will work on metal, but I will go and get something from the LHS that will, for sure, work. Thanks all! -Steve Neubaum --- On Sun, 1/16/11, Dale Smith <dfsmith26@...> wrote: From: Dale Smith <dfsmith26@...> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] AC Gilbert Drive Wheels To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, January 16, 2011, 9:16 PM   Coincidentally, someone posted a reply to a similar question on the S-trains list very recently and the detailed advice quoted below should also work well on Gilbert HO. "If it is not too greasy, you can slide the tire toward the chassis and put a small bit of super glue around the white insulator and quickly press the tire back onto the insulator. Steve SnS Traiins....Boise" Dale Smith On 1/16/2011 5:37 PM, Stephen Neubaum wrote:   Group, I have an AC Gilbert 4-6-4 Hudson locomotive, a later issue with the separate driver wheel treads, the kind that came with "whitewalls" as I call them. The treads are loose from the wheels, and are causing a short when they touch the rail and frame simultaneously. Anyone know of a good way to re-mount the treads? The hobby shop owner suggested J-B Weld, but I don't think the wheels/axles come out of the frame. I think I would need a wheel puller for that. Any advice? -Steve Neubaum

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15871	From: Nelson	Date: 1/17/2011
Subject: Re: eBay Rivarossi Hiawatha

I was watching that auction, too, Jim. I was surprised to see parts for that loco still in factory packaging. Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> wrote: > > I will agree that for a person seeking a highly detailed HO engine a streamlined Rivarossi 4-4-2 Hiawatha might not for them. However for a vintage collector it doesn't matter if some might think it is crude. ( I believe it's on a par with other streamlined engines at the time like the Penn Line Crusader. ) It's a matter of taste but it is an extremely hard to find factory painted item and highly collectable engine that draws high prices. > > To me it had one of the nicest working drive mechanisms at the time even using a miniature ball bearing set up to support the drive shaft. If you ever take one apart be ready as those little balls can fall out if not careful. > > Jim H > ----- Original Message ----- > From: dennyanspach > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2011 12:54 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: eBay Rivarossi Hiawatha > > > > The original Rivarossi "Hiawatha" 4-4-2 is pretty crude, to say the least. > > > > Denny > > > Denny S. Anspach MD > Sacramento >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15872	From: Richard	Date: 1/19/2011
Subject: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.

I just picked up the subject nice looking steamer from eBay. While it looks great, unfortunately, it runs way too noisey for me. I would like to repower it with a can motor but first I am wondering if anyone on this list has one of these and did they repower it? If so, what motor did you use? Any other info about this engine would be most welcome. Richard in Vermont

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15873	From: Matthew	Date: 1/20/2011
Subject: Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.

Richard, I have six of these locos. It was the first steam loco I ever had as a kid and I have purchased all the rest off eBay. My parents gave me the loco for Christmas in 1960 and I ran the wheels off it (Literally) in the next few years. Most of the ones I have bought run very quietly with the original motor, so the issue may be the motor and gear interaction with the worm gear on the driver. Also, put just a touch of oil on the commutator and see if it quiets down. I have re-motored two of these for other people using the 15x33 flat can motor from Microlocomotion on eBay. He sells all kinds of motors that are excellent and cheap. I can't say that remotoring either of them made them any quieter, but it sure cut down the current draw. Those old Japanese open-frame copies of Pittman motors do lose their oomph as the magnets lose their strength over time. It is a bear to get the worm off the motor shaft and put it on the new can motor, but that worm is the best fit for the worm gear. Matt Coleman --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Richard" <rh@...> wrote: > > I just picked up the subject nice looking steamer from eBay. While it looks great, unfortunately, it runs way too noisey for me. I would like to repower it with a can motor but first I am wondering if anyone on this list has one of these and did they repower it? If so, what motor did you use? Any other info about this engine would be most welcome. > Richard in Vermont >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15874	From: Nelson	Date: 1/21/2011
Subject: Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.

I think the Atlantic has the same vertical motor as the HOTCO 4-6-0 Camelback I picked up last year. If so, the gear mesh can be adjusted by loosening the motor mounting screws and sliding the motor forward & back for the best mesh and lowest noise. I also gave the motor a tuneup by polishing the commutator, cleaning the brushes and lightening the spring pressure, adding thrust washers, etc. It runs quietly for an old open frame, with no lack of torque. It even has a bit of flywheel effect. Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Matthew" <mattjcoleman@...> wrote: > > Richard, > > I have six of these locos. It was the first steam loco I ever had as a kid and I have purchased all the rest off eBay. My parents gave me the loco for Christmas in 1960 and I ran the wheels off it (Literally) in the next few years. Most of the ones I have bought run very quietly with the original motor, so the issue may be the motor and gear interaction with the worm gear on the driver. Also, put just a touch of oil on the commutator and see if it quiets down. > > I have re-motored two of these for other people using the 15x33 flat can motor from Microlocomotion on eBay. He sells all kinds of motors that are excellent and cheap. I can't say that remotoring either of them made them any quieter, but it sure cut down the current draw. Those old Japanese open-frame copies of Pittman motors do lose their oomph as the magnets lose their strength over time. > > It is a bear to get the worm off the motor shaft and put it on the new can motor, but that worm is the best fit for the worm gear. > > Matt Coleman > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Richard" <rh@> wrote: > > > > I just picked up the subject nice looking steamer from eBay. While it looks great, unfortunately, it runs way too noisey for me. I would like to repower it with a can motor but first I am wondering if anyone on this list has one of these and did they repower it? If so, what motor did you use? Any other info about this engine would be most welcome. > > Richard in Vermont > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15875	From: Richard	Date: 1/22/2011
Subject: Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.

Nelson, My 4-4-2 has the traditional horizontal motor without any adjustments. The motor was causing 90% of the noise. When I removed it and put in a can motor, most of the noise disappeared. I'm wondering if General Hobbies Corp. produced any other types of steamers? Richard in Vermont --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Nelson" <greenbrier614@...> wrote: > > I think the Atlantic has the same vertical motor as the HOTCO 4-6-0 Camelback I picked up last year. If so, the gear mesh can be adjusted by loosening the motor mounting screws and sliding the motor forward & back for the best mesh and lowest noise. I also gave the motor a tuneup by polishing the commutator, cleaning the brushes and lightening the spring pressure, adding thrust washers, etc. It runs quietly for an old open frame, with no lack of torque. It even has a bit of flywheel effect. > > Nelson > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Matthew" <mattjcoleman@> wrote: > > > > Richard, > > > > I have six of these locos. It was the first steam loco I ever had as a kid and I have purchased all the rest off eBay. My parents gave me the loco for Christmas in 1960 and I ran the wheels off it (Literally) in the next few years. Most of the ones I have bought run very quietly with the original motor, so the issue may be the motor and gear interaction with the worm gear on the driver. Also, put just a touch of oil on the commutator and see if it quiets down. > > > > I have re-motored two of these for other people using the 15x33 flat can motor from Microlocomotion on eBay. He sells all kinds of motors that are excellent and cheap. I can't say that remotoring either of them made them any quieter, but it sure cut down the current draw. Those old Japanese open-frame copies of Pittman motors do lose their oomph as the magnets lose their strength over time. > > > > It is a bear to get the worm off the motor shaft and put it on the new can motor, but that worm is the best fit for the worm gear. > > > > Matt Coleman > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Richard" <rh@> wrote: > > > > > > I just picked up the subject nice looking steamer from eBay. While it looks great, unfortunately, it runs way too noisey for me. I would like to repower it with a can motor but first I am wondering if anyone on this list has one of these and did they repower it? If so, what motor did you use? Any other info about this engine would be most welcome. > > > Richard in Vermont > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15876	From: jim heckard	Date: 1/22/2011
Subject: Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.

Richard,       Yes General Hobbies Corporation sold other steam engines that were in the same category as the cast metal 4-4-2 that you are talking about. I think a little history first is best.      General Hobbies Corporation was in Philadelphia and was the fore runner of AHM.  General Hobbies Corporation sold their items under the HO Train Company ( HOTCO ) label. Engines like the 4-4-2 were made in Japan by a company using the New One label. These New One engines were sold both by GHC / Hotco and Polk's Hobby of New York under the Aristo-Craft label. Both sold the same 4-4-2 engine like you have.       General Hobbies / HOTCO also sold two other types of cast steam engines made by New One, Japan. Besides the 4-4-2 Atlantic they sold a 4-6-0 Camelback and an 0-4-0 Mother Hubbard of which there were two styles ( different details like the stack and different style little tenders. ).      General Hobbies Corporation sold other steam engines but this only pertains to the cast metal New One of Japan types that the 4-4-2 falls into. As a side note GHC was the company that sold the New One copy of the Penn Line GG-1.     Hope this helps.                                                                                                  Jim H ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2011 11:12 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.   Nelson, My 4-4-2 has the traditional horizontal motor without any adjustments. The motor was causing 90% of the noise. When I removed it and put in a can motor, most of the noise disappeared. I'm wondering if General Hobbies Corp. produced any other types of steamers? Richard in Vermont --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Nelson" <greenbrier614@...> wrote: > > I think the Atlantic has the same vertical motor as the HOTCO 4-6-0 Camelback I picked up last year. If so, the gear mesh can be adjusted by loosening the motor mounting screws and sliding the motor forward & back for the best mesh and lowest noise. I also gave the motor a tuneup by polishing the commutator, cleaning the brushes and lightening the spring pressure, adding thrust washers, etc. It runs quietly for an old open frame, with no lack of torque. It even has a bit of flywheel effect. > > Nelson > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Matthew" <mattjcoleman@> wrote: > > > > Richard, > > > > I have six of these locos. It was the first steam loco I ever had as a kid and I have purchased all the rest off eBay. My parents gave me the loco for Christmas in 1960 and I ran the wheels off it (Literally) in the next few years. Most of the ones I have bought run very quietly with the original motor, so the issue may be the motor and gear interaction with the worm gear on the driver. Also, put just a touch of oil on the commutator and see if it quiets down. > > > > I have re-motored two of these for other people using the 15x33 flat can motor from Microlocomotion on eBay. He sells all kinds of motors that are excellent and cheap. I can't say that remotoring either of them made them any quieter, but it sure cut down the current draw. Those old Japanese open-frame copies of Pittman motors do lose their oomph as the magnets lose their strength over time. > > > > It is a bear to get the worm off the motor shaft and put it on the new can motor, but that worm is the best fit for the worm gear. > > > > Matt Coleman > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Richard" <rh@> wrote: > > > > > > I just picked up the subject nice looking steamer from eBay. While it looks great, unfortunately, it runs way too noisey for me. I would like to repower it with a can motor but first I am wondering if anyone on this list has one of these and did they repower it? If so, what motor did you use? Any other info about this engine would be most welcome. > > > Richard in Vermont > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15877	From: Nelson	Date: 1/22/2011
Subject: Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.

Oops. I thought I either saw a GHC or HOTCO Atlantic with the same vertical motor that's in my Camelback, or someone was talking about one like that. At any rate, a more typical horizontal Pittman style motor is a lot easier to replace than a vertical one. Maybe it was like the Pittman style that's in my New One 0-8-0, which is no great shakes. It's quiet, but one gap in the commutator plates is very wide. It doesn't seem to affect performance, though. As always, Jim has the lowdown on the company history. Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Richard" <rh@...> wrote: > > Nelson, > My 4-4-2 has the traditional horizontal motor without any adjustments. The motor was causing 90% of the noise. When I removed it and put in a can motor, most of the noise disappeared. I'm wondering if General Hobbies Corp. produced any other types of steamers? > Richard in Vermont > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Nelson" greenbrier614@ wrote: > > > > I think the Atlantic has the same vertical motor as the HOTCO 4-6-0 Camelback I picked up last year. If so, the gear mesh can be adjusted by loosening the motor mounting screws and sliding the motor forward & back for the best mesh and lowest noise. I also gave the motor a tuneup by polishing the commutator, cleaning the brushes and lightening the spring pressure, adding thrust washers, etc. It runs quietly for an old open frame, with no lack of torque. It even has a bit of flywheel effect. > > > > Nelson

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15878	From: Matthew	Date: 1/22/2011
Subject: Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.

Nelson, None of mine have a vertical motor. All have a motor that is nearly identical to a Pittman angled through the firebox. Incidentally, this loco was made by "The NewOne" in Tokyo which was one of the companies that came together under the Tenshodo label. Later, this same loco shows up as a PFM loco with a brass chassis and superstructure but using the same motor, drivers and gears. Matt --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Nelson" <greenbrier614@...> wrote: > > I think the Atlantic has the same vertical motor as the HOTCO 4-6-0 Camelback I picked up last year. If so, the gear mesh can be adjusted by loosening the motor mounting screws and sliding the motor forward & back for the best mesh and lowest noise. I also gave the motor a tuneup by polishing the commutator, cleaning the brushes and lightening the spring pressure, adding thrust washers, etc. It runs quietly for an old open frame, with no lack of torque. It even has a bit of flywheel effect. > > Nelson > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Matthew" <mattjcoleman@> wrote: > > > > Richard, > > > > I have six of these locos. It was the first steam loco I ever had as a kid and I have purchased all the rest off eBay. My parents gave me the loco for Christmas in 1960 and I ran the wheels off it (Literally) in the next few years. Most of the ones I have bought run very quietly with the original motor, so the issue may be the motor and gear interaction with the worm gear on the driver. Also, put just a touch of oil on the commutator and see if it quiets down. > > > > I have re-motored two of these for other people using the 15x33 flat can motor from Microlocomotion on eBay. He sells all kinds of motors that are excellent and cheap. I can't say that remotoring either of them made them any quieter, but it sure cut down the current draw. Those old Japanese open-frame copies of Pittman motors do lose their oomph as the magnets lose their strength over time. > > > > It is a bear to get the worm off the motor shaft and put it on the new can motor, but that worm is the best fit for the worm gear. > > > > Matt Coleman > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Richard" <rh@> wrote: > > > > > > I just picked up the subject nice looking steamer from eBay. While it looks great, unfortunately, it runs way too noisey for me. I would like to repower it with a can motor but first I am wondering if anyone on this list has one of these and did they repower it? If so, what motor did you use? Any other info about this engine would be most welcome. > > > Richard in Vermont > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15879	From: CinderCrusher	Date: 1/22/2011
Subject: Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.

Jim, Your answer to Richard also answered a question of mine. I recently picked up a Japanese built brass B&O Ten-Wheeler. On the box it said "HO Train Co." of Philadelphia, so apparently it is also by General Hobbies Corp. Thanks, Bill DeFoe --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> wrote: > > General Hobbies Corporation was in Philadelphia and was the fore runner of AHM. General Hobbies Corporation sold their items under the HO Train Company ( HOTCO ) label.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15880	From: asleepy60	Date: 1/22/2011
Subject: A Question

I purchased an old Varney passenger car kitand was wondering what type of adhesive to use to attach the sides to the wooden frame. The sides are some sort of acetate. Shoud I use white glue or super glue? Thank you.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15881	From: jim heckard	Date: 1/22/2011
Subject: Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.

All,      I would like to comment on vertical motors in some New One cast metal engines sold by both GHC / HOTCO  and Polk / Aristo Craft. I have 15 distinctly different New One of Tokyo Japan cast metal engines including the two different 0-4-0 Mother Hubbard versions I mentioned before in my collection. I have 5 mint engines that have never been taken out of the boxes which I can only look at to check. Without taking the boilers off any of my engines I found 3 that have the vertically mounted motors. They are:        The GHC / HOTCO 4-6-0 Camelback      The GHC / HOTCO 0-4-0 Mother Hubbards ( both versions )      The Polk Hobby/ Aristo Craft 0-6-0T           So there are definitely 3 with vertically mounted motors. I have 15 of the 16 known engines made by New One of the type we are talking about.  There has been previous discussions about how many types were actually made in other groups not part of Yahoo sites. There was even an article  written about 15 or 16 by a Mr. John Bortle years ago to try to answer this question.        One engine pictured ( a drawing ) in the Polk / Aristo Craft catalog was supposedly never made, the Mason Boogie. The one engine I don't have is an 0-4-0t engine that was also later sold by someone else.       Hope this all helps the thread going on now.                                                           Jim H ----- Original Message ----- From: Matthew To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2011 2:56 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.   Nelson, None of mine have a vertical motor. All have a motor that is nearly identical to a Pittman angled through the firebox. Incidentally, this loco was made by "The NewOne" in Tokyo which was one of the companies that came together under the Tenshodo label. Later, this same loco shows up as a PFM loco with a brass chassis and superstructure but using the same motor, drivers and gears. Matt --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Nelson" <greenbrier614@...> wrote: > > I think the Atlantic has the same vertical motor as the HOTCO 4-6-0 Camelback I picked up last year. If so, the gear mesh can be adjusted by loosening the motor mounting screws and sliding the motor forward & back for the best mesh and lowest noise. I also gave the motor a tuneup by polishing the commutator, cleaning the brushes and lightening the spring pressure, adding thrust washers, etc. It runs quietly for an old open frame, with no lack of torque. It even has a bit of flywheel effect. > > Nelson > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Matthew" <mattjcoleman@> wrote: > > > > Richard, > > > > I have six of these locos. It was the first steam loco I ever had as a kid and I have purchased all the rest off eBay. My parents gave me the loco for Christmas in 1960 and I ran the wheels off it (Literally) in the next few years. Most of the ones I have bought run very quietly with the original motor, so the issue may be the motor and gear interaction with the worm gear on the driver. Also, put just a touch of oil on the commutator and see if it quiets down. > > > > I have re-motored two of these for other people using the 15x33 flat can motor from Microlocomotion on eBay. He sells all kinds of motors that are excellent and cheap. I can't say that remotoring either of them made them any quieter, but it sure cut down the current draw. Those old Japanese open-frame copies of Pittman motors do lose their oomph as the magnets lose their strength over time. > > > > It is a bear to get the worm off the motor shaft and put it on the new can motor, but that worm is the best fit for the worm gear. > > > > Matt Coleman > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Richard" <rh@> wrote: > > > > > > I just picked up the subject nice looking steamer from eBay. While it looks great, unfortunately, it runs way too noisey for me. I would like to repower it with a can motor but first I am wondering if anyone on this list has one of these and did they repower it? If so, what motor did you use? Any other info about this engine would be most welcome. > > > Richard in Vermont > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15882	From: jim heckard	Date: 1/22/2011
Subject: Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.

Hi Bill,             Should be one and the same. Normally as far as every box I have seen that had the cast metal engines in both had GHC and HO Train Co. on the box. Since your engine is brass the boxes might not contain the same graphics.       I knew GHC sold some brass steam engines as well but maybe you can answer me a question. Underneath your tender is it stamped on the bottom New One ? I happen to have a 2-8-0 Camelback that doesn't say anything on the foam lined blue box it came in but does have New One  stamped into the metal. This is how I know New One made more then cast engines before becoming part of Tenshodo.                                              Jim H ----- Original Message ----- From: CinderCrusher To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2011 3:34 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.   Jim, Your answer to Richard also answered a question of mine. I recently picked up a Japanese built brass B&O Ten-Wheeler. On the box it said "HO Train Co." of Philadelphia, so apparently it is also by General Hobbies Corp. Thanks, Bill DeFoe --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> wrote: > > General Hobbies Corporation was in Philadelphia and was the fore runner of AHM. General Hobbies Corporation sold their items under the HO Train Company ( HOTCO ) label.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15883	From: jim heckard	Date: 1/22/2011
Subject: Re: A Question

I would not use either of the glues you mention because of the smooth acetate sides. Something on the order of Walthers Goo will give you a more permanent holding bound. I'm sure many on the site have a personal preference to give you a number of options.                              Jim H ----- Original Message ----- From: asleepy60 To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2011 3:53 PM Subject: [vintageHO] A Question   I purchased an old Varney passenger car kitand was wondering what type of adhesive to use to attach the sides to the wooden frame. The sides are some sort of acetate. Shoud I use white glue or super glue? Thank you.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15884	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/22/2011
Subject: Re: A Question

----- Original Message ----- From: "asleepy60" <asleepy60@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2011 2:53 PM Subject: [vintageHO] A Question >I purchased an old Varney passenger car kitand was wondering what type of >adhesive to use to attach the sides to the wooden frame. The sides are some >sort of acetate. Shoud I use white glue or super glue? Thank you. > I use weldwood contact cement for the sides. Walthers' "GOO" would also work. You may want to take a look at the album "building a Varmey Coach" in the photos section of the site. I don't know if you have one of the streamliners or one of the prewar standard cars but the techniques are the same. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/album/808036004/pic/list Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15885	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 1/22/2011
Subject: Re: A Question

Definitely Walthers Goo, but be sure to put it on THINLY as it's a mess when it squeezes out and will ruin a paint job real fast.   In a message dated 1/22/2011 4:33:36 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, don.dellmann@... writes: ----- Original Message ----- From: "asleepy60" <asleepy60@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2011 2:53 PM Subject: [vintageHO] A Question >I purchased an old Varney passenger car kitand was wondering what type of >adhesive to use to attach the sides to the wooden frame. The sides are some >sort of acetate. Shoud I use white glue or super glue? Thank you. > I use weldwood contact cement for the sides.  Walthers' "GOO" would also work.  You may want to take a look at the album "building a Varmey Coach" in the photos section of the site.  I don't know if you have one of the streamliners or one of the prewar standard cars but the techniques are the same. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/album/808036004/pic/list Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings:     Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join     (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email:     vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com     vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:     vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15886	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 1/22/2011
Subject: Re: A Question

Depending on the paint, I might add   In a message dated 1/22/2011 4:54:45 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, luvprr@... writes: Definitely Walthers Goo, but be sure to put it on THINLY as it's a mess when it squeezes out and will ruin a paint job real fast.   In a message dated 1/22/2011 4:33:36 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, don.dellmann@... writes: ----- Original Message ----- From: "asleepy60" <asleepy60@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2011 2:53 PM Subject: [vintageHO] A Question >I purchased an old Varney passenger car kitand was wondering what type of >adhesive to use to attach the sides to the wooden frame. The sides are some >sort of acetate. Shoud I use white glue or super glue? Thank you. > I use weldwood contact cement for the sides.  Walthers' "GOO" would also work.  You may want to take a look at the album "building a Varmey Coach" in the photos section of the site.  I don't know if you have one of the streamliners or one of the prewar standard cars but the techniques are the same. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/album/808036004/pic/list Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings:     Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join     (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email:     vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com     vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:     vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15887	From: Gerold Eckl	Date: 1/22/2011
Subject: New One - was: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.

On 1/22/2011 10:13 PM, jim heckard wrote:   Hi Bill,             Should be one and the same. Normally as far as every box I have seen that had the cast metal engines in both had GHC and HO Train Co. on the box. Since your engine is brass the boxes might not contain the same graphics.       I knew GHC sold some brass steam engines as well but maybe you can answer me a question. Underneath your tender is it stamped on the bottom New One ? I happen to have a 2-8-0 Camelback that doesn't say anything on the foam lined blue box it came in but does have New One  stamped into the metal. This is how I know New One made more then cast engines before becoming part of Tenshodo. Interesting topic, didnt know New One evolved into Tenshodo...  a little contribution from me, I have a very early Suydam Oregon Electric Interurban combine which has stamped "New One" in the floor, behind the pilot. Gerold

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15888	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 1/22/2011
Subject: Lionel

So, last night someone dropped off a small box of "old" H0 stuff. I sorted it out....."Fundimensions" by Lionel, made in Hong Kong. Well, I have a whole bunch of Lionel FA's, figured these two GP30's would be the same drives. Nope. Bachmann. In fact, if you go to HO Seeker, the #181 BN GP30's are shown on both the Lionel page AND the Bachmann page. Cleaned and lubed, light bars re-glued into one, now I think I'll pitch them. I want NO Bachmann stuff. When did Lionel use Bachmann for their drives? Dave

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15889	From: jim heckard	Date: 1/22/2011
Subject: Re: New One - was: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies C

Hi Gerold,       I'm glad to hear about the Suydam Oregon Electric having New One stamped on it.                                                                   Jim H ----- Original Message ----- From: Gerold Eckl To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2011 5:00 PM Subject: [vintageHO] New One - was: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.   On 1/22/2011 10:13 PM, jim heckard wrote:   Hi Bill,             Should be one and the same. Normally as far as every box I have seen that had the cast metal engines in both had GHC and HO Train Co. on the box. Since your engine is brass the boxes might not contain the same graphics.       I knew GHC sold some brass steam engines as well but maybe you can answer me a question. Underneath your tender is it stamped on the bottom New One ? I happen to have a 2-8-0 Camelback that doesn't say anything on the foam lined blue box it came in but does have New One  stamped into the metal. This is how I know New One made more then cast engines before becoming part of Tenshodo. Interesting topic, didnt know New One evolved into Tenshodo...  a little contribution from me, I have a very early Suydam Oregon Electric Interurban combine which has stamped "New One" in the floor, behind the pilot. Gerold

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15890	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 1/22/2011
Subject: Are Chatanooga Choo-Choos related to rabbits?

Seems like they must procreate at specific times. Got ANOTHER one in this small box. Gotta say, quietest running one I've seen in a while. 0-8-0 version, no front truck and the screwhole has never had anything in it. Think I'll bob the nose, new pilot and steps, repaint the stupid thing, and maybe put an old English or Mantua tender behind it, with a NWSL gearbox and can motor in the cab, just to be different. How many of these silly things did they make, anyway?

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15891	From: CinderCrusher	Date: 1/22/2011
Subject: Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.

Jim, I checked the loco and tender and the only lettering stamped on the bottom is the word "JAPAN" on the driver cover plate. There is nothing on the tender. I placed photos of the locomotive and also the box in the Photo Section in my album titled "Cinder Valley". If you display the box in the large format and look at the left end of the side of the box you will see "Manufactured for the HO Train Co. Philadelphia, Made in Japan". Someone placed tape over the lettering but it is still readable. What does the New One or General Models Corp. emblem look like? On the top of the box at the left end there was a round emblem that was torn by heavy usage and is no longer intact. Was their emblem inside a round circle? Bill DeFoe --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> wrote: > > Hi Bill, > > Should be one and the same. Normally as far as every box I have seen that had the cast metal engines in both had GHC and HO Train Co. on the box. Since your engine is brass the boxes might not contain the same graphics. > > I knew GHC sold some brass steam engines as well but maybe you can answer me a question. Underneath your tender is it stamped on the bottom New One ? I happen to have a 2-8-0 Camelback that doesn't say anything on the foam lined blue box it came in but does have New One stamped into the metal. This is how I know New One made more then cast engines before becoming part of Tenshodo. > > Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15892	From: CinderCrusher	Date: 1/22/2011
Subject: Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.

Sorry, I meant to say General Hobbies Corp. and not General Models Corp. Bill DeFoe --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "CinderCrusher" <defoe242@...> wrote: > > Jim, > > I checked the loco and tender and the only lettering stamped on the bottom is the word "JAPAN" on the driver cover plate. There is nothing on the tender. > > I placed photos of the locomotive and also the box in the Photo Section in my album titled "Cinder Valley". If you display the box in the large format and look at the left end of the side of the box you will see "Manufactured for the HO Train Co. Philadelphia, Made in Japan". Someone placed tape over the lettering but it is still readable. > > What does the New One or General Models Corp. emblem look like? On the top of the box at the left end there was a round emblem that was torn by heavy usage and is no longer intact. Was their emblem inside a round circle? > > Bill DeFoe > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@> wrote: > > > > Hi Bill, > > > > Should be one and the same. Normally as far as every box I have seen that had the cast metal engines in both had GHC and HO Train Co. on the box. Since your engine is brass the boxes might not contain the same graphics. > > > > I knew GHC sold some brass steam engines as well but maybe you can answer me a question. Underneath your tender is it stamped on the bottom New One ? I happen to have a 2-8-0 Camelback that doesn't say anything on the foam lined blue box it came in but does have New One stamped into the metal. This is how I know New One made more then cast engines before becoming part of Tenshodo. > > > > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15893	From: jim heckard	Date: 1/22/2011
Subject: GHC emblem

Attachments : IMG_6717_2.JPG IMG_6716_1.JPG     Bill,             I think this would be the GHC emblem you are talking about. You can see there are very slight differences in it depending on what box it came from.                                 Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 15894	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/22/2011
Subject: Re: Lionel

----- Original Message ----- From: "trainsnwrcs" <idioticyahoo@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2011 4:02 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Lionel > So, last night someone dropped off a small box of "old" H0 stuff. > I sorted it out....."Fundimensions" by Lionel, made in Hong Kong. > Well, I have a whole bunch of Lionel FA's, figured these two GP30's would > be the same drives. > Nope. > Bachmann. > In fact, if you go to HO Seeker, the #181 BN GP30's are shown on both the > Lionel page AND the Bachmann page. > > Cleaned and lubed, light bars re-glued into one, now I think I'll pitch > them. > I want NO Bachmann stuff. > > When did Lionel use Bachmann for their drives? > Dave Heck, if you don't want them I'll take them. The drives are junk but the bodies were state of the art at the time, the same shell went to Front Range as well as Bachmann. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15895	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 1/22/2011
Subject: Re: Lionel

Already spoken for. Like, 5 minutes later. > > > So, last night someone dropped off a small box of "old" H0 stuff. > > I sorted it out....."Fundimensions" by Lionel, made in Hong Kong. > > Well, I have a whole bunch of Lionel FA's, figured these two GP30's would > > be the same drives. > > Nope. > > Bachmann. > > In fact, if you go to HO Seeker, the #181 BN GP30's are shown on both the > > Lionel page AND the Bachmann page. > > > > Cleaned and lubed, light bars re-glued into one, now I think I'll pitch > > them. > > I want NO Bachmann stuff. > > > > When did Lionel use Bachmann for their drives? > > Dave > > Heck, if you don't want them I'll take them. The drives are junk but the > bodies were state of the art at the time, the same shell went to Front Range > as well as Bachmann. > > Don > > Don Dellmann > don.dellmann@... > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ > http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction > Owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15896	From: Richard	Date: 1/22/2011
Subject: Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.

Jim, Many thanks for the history on this engine. It is interesting to know that this was the fore runner of AHM/IHC. I'm going to look for some of the other engines that they produced. I would also like to hear from anyone that has repowered one of these and how they went about it. Richard in Vermont --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> wrote: > > Richard, > > Yes General Hobbies Corporation sold other steam engines that were in the same category as the cast metal 4-4-2 that you are talking about. I think a little history first is best. > > General Hobbies Corporation was in Philadelphia and was the fore runner of AHM. General Hobbies Corporation sold their items under the HO Train Company ( HOTCO ) label. Engines like the 4-4-2 were made in Japan by a company using the New One label. These New One engines were sold both by GHC / Hotco and Polk's Hobby of New York under the Aristo-Craft label. Both sold the same 4-4-2 engine like you have. > > General Hobbies / HOTCO also sold two other types of cast steam engines made by New One, Japan. Besides the 4-4-2 Atlantic they sold a 4-6-0 Camelback and an 0-4-0 Mother Hubbard of which there were two styles ( different details like the stack and different style little tenders. ). > > General Hobbies Corporation sold other steam engines but this only pertains to the cast metal New One of Japan types that the 4-4-2 falls into. As a side note GHC was the company that sold the New One copy of the Penn Line GG-1. > > Hope this helps. > > Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15897	From: CinderCrusher	Date: 1/23/2011
Subject: Re: GHC emblem

Jim, You are right, it is the GHC emblem. I can see the rubber stamp design to the right of the circle on my box. I also just found my locomotive in a 1959 Model Railroader ad by AHM. So this all comes full circle. Due to your previously mentioned link between the HO Train Co., GHC, AHM, and Tenshodo, I am thinking that it is probably early Tenshodo brass, imported by the HO Train Co., which later became AHM. It certainly looks to be of a quality equal to Tenshodo. The only discrepancy I can see is that it doesn't have the enclosed gearbox of the PFM/Tenshodo engines. Thanks for all your help. Bill DeFoe --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > > Bill, > > I think this would be the GHC emblem you are talking about. You can see there are very slight differences in it depending on what box it came from. > > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15898	From: jim heckard	Date: 1/23/2011
Subject: Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.

Richard, Bill,             Glad to know I was helpful. Mr. Bernie Paul, whose name in HO was well known, was a major player in General Hobbies Corporation, AHM and IHC. I had some personal correspondence with Mr. Paul on certain items especially the GG-1 that was made by New One, sold by GHC / HOTCO and was an almost perfect copy of the Penn Line GG-1.         I don't know to much about the Tenshodo brass connection and what was sold. This is why the history of vintage HO is interesting to me. Many companies and many people whose names are linked to vintage HO are intertwined.        As a collector I have not attempted to repower the engines we are talking about. Engines for my collection remain as they were originally whether they ran good, poor or just plain lousy. I'm sure there are many out there that have.        Have a great day.                                                      Jim H ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2011 12:22 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.   Jim, Many thanks for the history on this engine. It is interesting to know that this was the fore runner of AHM/IHC. I'm going to look for some of the other engines that they produced. I would also like to hear from anyone that has repowered one of these and how they went about it. Richard in Vermont --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> wrote: > > Richard, > > Yes General Hobbies Corporation sold other steam engines that were in the same category as the cast metal 4-4-2 that you are talking about. I think a little history first is best. > > General Hobbies Corporation was in Philadelphia and was the fore runner of AHM. General Hobbies Corporation sold their items under the HO Train Company ( HOTCO ) label. Engines like the 4-4-2 were made in Japan by a company using the New One label. These New One engines were sold both by GHC / Hotco and Polk's Hobby of New York under the Aristo-Craft label. Both sold the same 4-4-2 engine like you have. > > General Hobbies / HOTCO also sold two other types of cast steam engines made by New One, Japan. Besides the 4-4-2 Atlantic they sold a 4-6-0 Camelback and an 0-4-0 Mother Hubbard of which there were two styles ( different details like the stack and different style little tenders. ). > > General Hobbies Corporation sold other steam engines but this only pertains to the cast metal New One of Japan types that the 4-4-2 falls into. As a side note GHC was the company that sold the New One copy of the Penn Line GG-1. > > Hope this helps. > > Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15899	From: Richard	Date: 1/23/2011
Subject: Inside Scoop on IHC?

Jim H., That history you gave us on General Hobbies, AHM. etc. was most interesting and I am wondering if you could go a bit further if you have any inside track info on what happened to IHC to cause them to go out of business? Over the years they filled an important segment of our hobby and while their products where generic, they were also good runners for the most part, relatively inexpensive and lent themselves to kit bashing. For me, this company will be greatly missed (I am speaking mainly of IHC products). Richard in Vermont

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15900	From: Richard	Date: 1/23/2011
Subject: Re: Chatanooga Choo-Choo

Speaking of the Chatanooga Choo-Choo that Tyco put out back in the 60's and 70's, back then my very first purchase in HO gauge was a Royal Blue 2-8-0 steamer that had the same, as you put it, "silly" tender powered loco. Back then I was wide eyed and gullible about the hobby and I soon found out that my first purchase was practically worthless since in about three months that silly tender with the "slot car motor" quit running. The engineer that dreamed this thing up must have been a real wing-ding. Because this was my first purchase and because I just plain liked the looks of that Royal Blue engine, I put it up on my display shelf and there it sat for some 25 to 30 years. In the back of my mind I thought that some day I would find a way to bring it back to life. Well, that very thing happened several years ago and now that little Royal Blue runs as good as anything I have. What happened to it? Here's the story. One day I was looking at one of IHC's 2-8-0 steamers on eBay and this particular offering also had a well detailed close-up photo of the loco. As I scanned the photo, I thought to myself, "Could it be"? Sure enough, IHC's supplier Mehano was using the very same 2-8-0 shell mold that Tyco had used many years before. I very quickly purchased that IHC 2-8-0 and slipped the mechanism under the old Royal Blue along with some tender modifications and WELLA I had a sweet running Royal Blue Tyco/IHC that became one of my favorite pieces. If you have one of these Chatanooga Choo-Choos that you would like to "steam again" just get yourself an IHC 2-8-0 and go to work. It does take some fitting but it will run great when completed. In my next episode, I will tell you how I revamped an old Bachmann Reading 2-8-0 (Wooten fire box version) with a Mantua Mikado drive. 8-) Richard in Vermont --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "trainsnwrcs" <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: > > Seems like they must procreate at specific times. > Got ANOTHER one in this small box. Gotta say, quietest running one I've seen in a while. > > 0-8-0 version, no front truck and the screwhole has never had anything in it. > Think I'll bob the nose, new pilot and steps, repaint the stupid thing, and maybe put an old English or Mantua tender behind it, with a NWSL gearbox and can motor in the cab, just to be different. > > How many of these silly things did they make, anyway? >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15901	From: jim heckard	Date: 1/23/2011
Subject: Re: Inside Scoop on IHC?

Richard,               I can't tell you much about IHC and why they went out of business. They were in business past the time frame of my collection and the history of HO I'm trying to learn and keep ( 1936-1977 ). Even that span has a lot to learn.        I do remember one statement Mr. Paul wrote to  me when we were discussing the New One GG-1. It had to do with the GG-I ( I think it was a dual motor ) they, IHC, were selling at the time being a terrific running engine.        I think the business climate had something to do with it, so many long standing HO companies going out of business and a lot going on with getting and buying from China. I'm sure others might have definite information. Sorry I can't help much in this area.                                     Jim H       ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2011 10:22 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Inside Scoop on IHC?   Jim H., That history you gave us on General Hobbies, AHM. etc. was most interesting and I am wondering if you could go a bit further if you have any inside track info on what happened to IHC to cause them to go out of business? Over the years they filled an important segment of our hobby and while their products where generic, they were also good runners for the most part, relatively inexpensive and lent themselves to kit bashing. For me, this company will be greatly missed (I am speaking mainly of IHC products). Richard in Vermont

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15902	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 1/23/2011
Subject: Re: Inside Scoop on IHC?

Richard,   The owner, Berne Paul passed away.  That would be the biggest reason.  The IHC passenger cars were just not up to par with the latest offerings from other companies, so I am sure that hurt the business also.   Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Richard Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2011 10:22 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Inside Scoop on IHC?     Jim H., That history you gave us on General Hobbies, AHM. etc. was most interesting and I am wondering if you could go a bit further if you have any inside track info on what happened to IHC to cause them to go out of business? Over the years they filled an important segment of our hobby and while their products where generic, they were also good runners for the most part, relatively inexpensive and lent themselves to kit bashing. For me, this company will be greatly missed (I am speaking mainly of IHC products). Richard in Vermont

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15903	From: estabrook@aol.com	Date: 1/23/2011
Subject: Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.

Gents - This thread is fascinating to me because I have collected a number of both the GHC/Hotco and Aristocraft engines and still have several of them.  My first was one of the Atlantics I bought at a train show, without knowing anything about it. Later I found it to be a GHC with a Varney tender).  I subsequently found advertisements for Pacific Fast Mail (MRR 4/57) advertising a brass Atlantic by Tenshodo which looked very similar.  I bid on, but didn't win, about the year 2000, a Japanese brass engine in pieces with very similar drive to my GHC.  I have also heard of cast brass versions.  From that and discussions with others led me to suspect that New One evolved into Tenshodo.  It was good to hear Matt's confirmation of that. The GHC/Hotco 4-6-0 Camelback has been one of my favorites, being a CNJ prototype and I'm a CNJ fan.  It is hard to find them in good shape, especially the tenders. Lee Town made two versions of the tender, passenger and freight, as well as certain details for the engine. The GHC/Hotco 4-6-0 Ten Wheeler is another New One model and a pretty good representation of another CNJ engine.  It is interesting to note that Polk's sold both the New One version, as well as the Rivarossi "Casey Jones" ten wheeler in the late 50's. My other Aristo-Craft models made by New One are the 2-8-2 Frisco Mikado, and the 4-8-2 USRA Mountain, both excellent runners.  I have not had the inclination to re-power any of them. Reed -----Original Message----- From: jim heckard <jimheck@...> To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sun, Jan 23, 2011 9:41 am Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.   Richard, Bill,             Glad to know I was helpful. Mr. Bernie Paul, whose name in HO was well known, was a major player in General Hobbies Corporation, AHM and IHC. I had some personal correspondence with Mr. Paul on certain items especially the GG-1 that was made by New One, sold by GHC / HOTCO and was an almost perfect copy of the Penn Line GG-1.         I don't know to much about the Tenshodo brass connection and what was sold. This is why the history of vintage HO is interesting to me. Many companies and many people whose names are linked to vintage HO are intertwined.        As a collector I have not attempted to repower the engines we are talking about. Engines for my collection remain as they were originally whether they ran good, poor or just plain lousy. I'm sure there are many out there that have.        Have a great day.                                                      Jim H ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2011 12:22 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.   Jim, Many thanks for the history on this engine. It is interesting to know that this was the fore runner of AHM/IHC. I'm going to look for some of the other engines that they produced. I would also like to hear from anyone that has repowered one of these and how they went about it. Richard in Vermont --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> wrote: > > Richard, > > Yes General Hobbies Corporation sold other steam engines that were in the same category as the cast metal 4-4-2 that you are talking about. I think a little history first is best. > > General Hobbies Corporation was in Philadelphia and was the fore runner of AHM. General Hobbies Corporation sold their items under the HO Train Company ( HOTCO ) label. Engines like the 4-4-2 were made in Japan by a company using the New One label. These New One engines were sold both by GHC / Hotco and Polk's Hobby of New York under the Aristo-Craft label. Both sold the same 4-4-2 engine like you have. > > General Hobbies / HOTCO also sold two other types of cast steam engines made by New One, Japan. Besides the 4-4-2 Atlantic they sold a 4-6-0 Camelback and an 0-4-0 Mother Hubbard of which there were two styles ( different details like the stack and different style little tenders. ). > > General Hobbies Corporation sold other steam engines but this only pertains to the cast metal New One of Japan types that the 4-4-2 falls into. As a side note GHC was the company that sold the New One copy of the Penn Line GG-1. > > Hope this helps. > > Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15904	From: Riverboy	Date: 1/23/2011
Subject: Re: Inside Scoop on IHC?

Do you think someone might pick up some of the line one day? They did have some nice stuff that just needed a little reworking.   Tod in Ohio   --- On Sun, 1/23/11, Chuck Higdon <vze5crrw1@...> wrote: From: Chuck Higdon <vze5crrw1@...> Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Inside Scoop on IHC? To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, January 23, 2011, 11:36 AM   Richard,   The owner, Berne Paul passed away.  That would be the biggest reason.  The IHC passenger cars were just not up to par with the latest offerings from other companies, so I am sure that hurt the business also.   Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Richard Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2011 10:22 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Inside Scoop on IHC?     Jim H., That history you gave us on General Hobbies, AHM. etc. was most interesting and I am wondering if you could go a bit further if you have any inside track info on what happened to IHC to cause them to go out of business? Over the years they filled an important segment of our hobby and while their products where generic, they were also good runners for the most part, relatively inexpensive and lent themselves to kit bashing. For me, this company will be greatly missed (I am speaking mainly of IHC products). Richard in Vermont

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15905	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 1/23/2011
Subject: Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.

I agree that the Frisco Mikado is a good runner. I had one (Operative word is 'Had'), until a squirrel that got into my apartment, knocked it off my work table to the floor, cracking the frame. I found the mikado is also oversized for HO. I also collect Scale-Craft OO scale, which I rework for HO track operation with new trucks and couplers, and found the GHC mike is a good engine for pulling those cars. Looks right at home, proportion-wise. Would LOVE to get a new frame, but as I would also need the driver wheels, and pilot truck, and money is tight right now, it has to wait. -Steve Neubaum --- On Sun, 1/23/11, estabrook@... <estabrook@...> wrote: From: estabrook@... <estabrook@...> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp. To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, January 23, 2011, 10:38 AM   Gents - This thread is fascinating to me because I have collected a number of both the GHC/Hotco and Aristocraft engines and still have several of them.  My first was one of the Atlantics I bought at a train show, without knowing anything about it. Later I found it to be a GHC with a Varney tender).  I subsequently found advertisements for Pacific Fast Mail (MRR 4/57) advertising a brass Atlantic by Tenshodo which looked very similar.  I bid on, but didn't win, about the year 2000, a Japanese brass engine in pieces with very similar drive to my GHC.  I have also heard of cast brass versions.  From that and discussions with others led me to suspect that New One evolved into Tenshodo.  It was good to hear Matt's confirmation of that. The GHC/Hotco 4-6-0 Camelback has been one of my favorites, being a CNJ prototype and I'm a CNJ fan.  It is hard to find them in good shape, especially the tenders. Lee Town made two versions of the tender, passenger and freight, as well as certain details for the engine. The GHC/Hotco 4-6-0 Ten Wheeler is another New One model and a pretty good representation of another CNJ engine.  It is interesting to note that Polk's sold both the New One version, as well as the Rivarossi "Casey Jones" ten wheeler in the late 50's. My other Aristo-Craft models made by New One are the 2-8-2 Frisco Mikado, and the 4-8-2 USRA Mountain, both excellent runners.  I have not had the inclination to re-power any of them. Reed -----Original Message----- From: jim heckard <jimheck@...> To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sun, Jan 23, 2011 9:41 am Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.   Richard, Bill,             Glad to know I was helpful. Mr. Bernie Paul, whose name in HO was well known, was a major player in General Hobbies Corporation, AHM and IHC. I had some personal correspondence with Mr. Paul on certain items especially the GG-1 that was made by New One, sold by GHC / HOTCO and was an almost perfect copy of the Penn Line GG-1.         I don't know to much about the Tenshodo brass connection and what was sold. This is why the history of vintage HO is interesting to me. Many companies and many people whose names are linked to vintage HO are intertwined.        As a collector I have not attempted to repower the engines we are talking about. Engines for my collection remain as they were originally whether they ran good, poor or just plain lousy. I'm sure there are many out there that have.        Have a great day.                                                      Jim H ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2011 12:22 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.   Jim, Many thanks for the history on this engine. It is interesting to know that this was the fore runner of AHM/IHC. I'm going to look for some of the other engines that they produced. I would also like to hear from anyone that has repowered one of these and how they went about it. Richard in Vermont --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> wrote: > > Richard, > > Yes General Hobbies Corporation sold other steam engines that were in the same category as the cast metal 4-4-2 that you are talking about. I think a little history first is best. > > General Hobbies Corporation was in Philadelphia and was the fore runner of AHM. General Hobbies Corporation sold their items under the HO Train Company ( HOTCO ) label. Engines like the 4-4-2 were made in Japan by a company using the New One label. These New One engines were sold both by GHC / Hotco and Polk's Hobby of New York under the Aristo-Craft label. Both sold the same 4-4-2 engine like you have. > > General Hobbies / HOTCO also sold two other types of cast steam engines made by New One, Japan. Besides the 4-4-2 Atlantic they sold a 4-6-0 Camelback and an 0-4-0 Mother Hubbard of which there were two styles ( different details like the stack and different style little tenders. ). > > General Hobbies Corporation sold other steam engines but this only pertains to the cast metal New One of Japan types that the 4-4-2 falls into. As a side note GHC was the company that sold the New One copy of the Penn Line GG-1. > > Hope this helps. > > Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15906	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 1/23/2011
Subject: Re: Inside Scoop on IHC?

I really liked the structures they had.  While they weren't "SUPER" detailed, they included enough detail to lend themselves to a bit of additional detailing and painting to get some very nice structures.  I did purchase all of the "painted ladies"series and am glad I did get them when I did.  I am always on the lookout for some of the others, but they are getting more and more difficult to find. Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: jimheck@... Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2011 11:11:13 -0500 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Inside Scoop on IHC?   Richard,               I can't tell you much about IHC and why they went out of business. They were in business past the time frame of my collection and the history of HO I'm trying to learn and keep ( 1936-1977 ). Even that span has a lot to learn.        I do remember one statement Mr. Paul wrote to  me when we were discussing the New One GG-1. It had to do with the GG-I ( I think it was a dual motor ) they, IHC, were selling at the time being a terrific running engine.        I think the business climate had something to do with it, so many long standing HO companies going out of business and a lot going on with getting and buying from China. I'm sure others might have definite information. Sorry I can't help much in this area.                                     Jim H       ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2011 10:22 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Inside Scoop on IHC?   Jim H., That history you gave us on General Hobbies, AHM. etc. was most interesting and I am wondering if you could go a bit further if you have any inside track info on what happened to IHC to cause them to go out of business? Over the years they filled an important segment of our hobby and while their products where generic, they were also good runners for the most part, relatively inexpensive and lent themselves to kit bashing. For me, this company will be greatly missed (I am speaking mainly of IHC products). Richard in Vermont

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15907	From: asleepy60	Date: 1/23/2011
Subject: Re: A Question

Thank you to those who responded to my question. Mr. Dellmann I did see your photos about building the coach before I had asked the question. The thing was that I could not see the brand name on the cement tube that you had used, so I asked. Your photos were very complete and quite impressive. BTW - my kit unit is a PA-40 coach not a smooth side. I rode those when they were still painted in the yellow and blue paint scheme of the old CNJ (Central Railroad of New Jersey).

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15908	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/23/2011
Subject: Re: A Question

----- Original Message ----- From: "asleepy60" <asleepy60@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2011 1:14 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: A Question > Thank you to those who responded to my question. > > Mr. Dellmann I did see your photos about building the coach before I had > asked the question. The thing was that I could not see the brand name on > the cement tube that you had used, so I asked. > > Your photos were very complete and quite impressive. > > BTW - my kit unit is a PA-40 coach not a smooth side. I rode those when > they were still painted in the yellow and blue paint scheme of the old CNJ > (Central Railroad of New Jersey). Actually that particular tube was "super glue" brand but it was still contact cement. Since then for some reason it's hard around here, so now I use weldwood. Pliobond will also work. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15909	From: Nelson	Date: 1/23/2011
Subject: Re: New One - was: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies C

I wasn't aware of the New One / Tenshodo connection either. It's interesting how intertwined many of the various names in the industry were. Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> wrote: > > Hi Gerold, > > I'm glad to hear about the Suydam Oregon Electric having New One stamped on it. > > > Jim H > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Gerold Eckl > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2011 5:00 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] New One - was: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp. > > > > On 1/22/2011 10:13 PM, jim heckard wrote: > > > > Hi Bill, > > Should be one and the same. Normally as far as every box I have seen that had the cast metal engines in both had GHC and HO Train Co. on the box. Since your engine is brass the boxes might not contain the same graphics. > > I knew GHC sold some brass steam engines as well but maybe you can answer me a question. Underneath your tender is it stamped on the bottom New One ? I happen to have a 2-8-0 Camelback that doesn't say anything on the foam lined blue box it came in but does have New One stamped into the metal. This is how I know New One made more then cast engines before becoming part of Tenshodo. > > > Interesting topic, didnt know New One evolved into Tenshodo... a little contribution from me, I have a very early Suydam Oregon Electric Interurban combine which has stamped "New One" in the floor, behind the pilot. > > Gerold >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15910	From: Nelson	Date: 1/23/2011
Subject: Re: Chatanooga Choo-Choo

Rich, Mehano did acquire the boiler tooling for the Chattanooga, and used it for their 0-8-0 & 2-8-0, which wasn't a bad thing because the tooling was quite good, and probably what suckered most of us in about 35 years ago. Tyco started production of those things around 1974 as a 'deluxe' Consolidation, then removed the lead truck, valve gear and, top-mounted headlamp and continued cranking them out through the 80s. Some of us on the Tyco forum took to replacing the pancake motor in the tender with disk drive motors thusly: http://tinyurl.com/5wypaof It runs strong and steady, but it isn't exactly the quietest runner because of the gearing. I've always wanted to power the drivers, but just haven't gotten around to it. Was there much surgery involved in transferring the Tyco steamchest onto the IHC frame? Btw, I saw a Royal Blue mint in the box go for over $90 on eBay recently. I picked one up last year at the LHS in the box for $12 with the caboose just for the heck of it. Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Richard" <rh@...> wrote: > > Speaking of the Chatanooga Choo-Choo that Tyco put out back in the 60's and 70's, back then my very first purchase in HO gauge was a Royal Blue 2-8-0 steamer that had the same, as you put it, "silly" tender powered loco. Back then I was wide eyed and gullible about the hobby and I soon found out that my first purchase was practically worthless since in about three months that silly tender with the "slot car motor" quit running. The engineer that dreamed this thing up must have been a real wing-ding. > > Because this was my first purchase and because I just plain liked the looks of that Royal Blue engine, I put it up on my display shelf and there it sat for some 25 to 30 years. In the back of my mind I thought that some day I would find a way to bring it back to life. > > Well, that very thing happened several years ago and now that little Royal Blue runs as good as anything I have. What happened to it? Here's the story. One day I was looking at one of IHC's 2-8-0 steamers on eBay and this particular offering also had a well detailed close-up photo of the loco. As I scanned the photo, I thought to myself, "Could it be"? Sure enough, IHC's supplier Mehano was using the very same 2-8-0 shell mold that Tyco had used many years before. I very quickly purchased that IHC 2-8-0 and slipped the mechanism under the old Royal Blue along with some tender modifications and WELLA I had a sweet running Royal Blue Tyco/IHC that became one of my favorite pieces. If you have one of these Chatanooga Choo-Choos that you would like to "steam again" just get yourself an IHC 2-8-0 and go to work. It does take some fitting but it will run great when completed. In my next episode, I will tell you how I revamped an old Bachmann Reading 2-8-0 (Wooten fire box version) with a Mantua Mikado drive. 8-) > Richard in Vermont >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15911	From: VtHam	Date: 1/24/2011
Subject: Re: Chatanooga Choo-Choo

Attachments : Royal Blue Tyco-IHC Conversion 006.jpg Royal Blue Tyco-IHC Conversion 003.jpg Royal Blue Tyco-IHC Conversion 001.jpg Hi Nelson, Thanks for the info and photo about the pancake motor. I had never heard of that one. Looks pretty neat and a good way to preserve most of the original drive, if desired. Nice photo too.   It's been a few years since I did my IHC conversion but as I remember it was just a matter of removing some of the boiler belly plastic to gain clearence for the IHC drive. I took three photos to show you my engine but I'm having trouble trying to get a link like you did for your photo. Perhaps the photos will go under group "Attachment". If not, I will put them in Group Photos. Regarding the tender, I used the IHC tender platform and wheels but I had to cut it in half and added a short section in the middle since the IHC tender was a bit shorter than the tyco tender. Richard in Vermont   --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Nelson" <greenbrier614@...> wrote: > > Rich, > > Mehano did acquire the boiler tooling for the Chattanooga, and used it for their 0-8-0 & 2-8-0, which wasn't a bad thing because the tooling was quite good, and probably what suckered most of us in about 35 years ago. Tyco started production of those things around 1974 as a 'deluxe' Consolidation, then removed the lead truck, valve gear and, top-mounted headlamp and continued cranking them out through the 80s. > > Some of us on the Tyco forum took to replacing the pancake motor in the tender with disk drive motors thusly: > > href="http://tinyurl.com/5wypaof">http://tinyurl.com/5wypaof > > It runs strong and steady, but it isn't exactly the quietest runner because of the gearing. I've always wanted to power the drivers, but just haven't gotten around to it. Was there much surgery involved in transferring the Tyco steamchest onto the IHC frame? > > Btw, I saw a Royal Blue mint in the box go for over $90 on eBay recently. I picked one up last year at the LHS in the box for $12 with the caboose just for the heck of it. > > Nelson > > > > --- In href="mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com">vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Richard" <rh@> wrote: > > > > Speaking of the Chatanooga Choo-Choo that Tyco put out back in the 60's and 70's, back then my very first purchase in HO gauge was a Royal Blue 2-8-0 steamer that had the same, as you put it, "silly" tender powered loco. Back then I was wide eyed and gullible about the hobby and I soon found out that my first purchase was practically worthless since in about three months that silly tender with the "slot car motor" quit running. The engineer that dreamed this thing up must have been a real wing-ding. > > > > Because this was my first purchase and because I just plain liked the looks of that Royal Blue engine, I put it up on my display shelf and there it sat for some 25 to 30 years. In the back of my mind I thought that some day I would find a way to bring it back to life. > > > > Well, that very thing happened several years ago and now that little Royal Blue runs as good as anything I have. What happened to it? Here's the story. One day I was looking at one of IHC's 2-8-0 steamers on eBay and this particular offering also had a well detailed close-up photo of the loco. As I scanned the photo, I thought to myself, "Could it be"?  Sure enough, IHC's supplier Mehano was using the very same 2-8-0 shell mold that Tyco had used many years before. I very quickly purchased that IHC 2-8-0 and slipped the mechanism under the old  Royal Blue along with some tender modifications and WELLA I had a sweet running Royal Blue Tyco/IHC that became one of my favorite pieces. If you have one of these Chatanooga Choo-Choos that you would like to "steam again" just get yourself an IHC 2-8-0 and go to work. It does take some fitting but it will run great when completed. In my next episode, I will tell you how I revamped an old Bachmann Reading 2-8-0 (Wooten fire box version) with a Mantua Mikado drive. 8-) > > Richard in Vermont

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 15912	From: fydill@aol.com	Date: 1/24/2011
Subject: Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.

I read with interest about your correspondence with Mr. B. Paul and the GG-1.  I remember visiting the home of Bob Faust, Penn Line President, some 50 years ago. Mr. Faust was talking about how that "bleeping" Paul had sent Penn Line's GG-1 and some other locos to Japan to be copied.  He had evidence Paul had copied Penn Line's model rather than using original railroad specs. This evidence was that Paul's product incorporated all of the subtle compromises and inaccuracies of the Penn Line product. I know that the most obvious inaccuracy was the length of GG-1, but I wonder if anyone in the group knows of any other that would prove Mr. Faust's claim. Frank Dill -----Original Message----- From: jim heckard <jimheck@...> To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sun, Jan 23, 2011 4:41 am Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.   Richard, Bill,             Glad to know I was helpful. Mr. Bernie Paul, whose name in HO was well known, was a major player in General Hobbies Corporation, AHM and IHC. I had some personal correspondence with Mr. Paul on certain items especially the GG-1 that was made by New One, sold by GHC / HOTCO and was an almost perfect copy of the Penn Line GG-1.         I don't know to much about the Tenshodo brass connection and what was sold. This is why the history of vintage HO is interesting to me. Many companies and many people whose names are linked to vintage HO are intertwined.        As a collector I have not attempted to repower the engines we are talking about. Engines for my collection remain as they were originally whether they ran good, poor or just plain lousy. I'm sure there are many out there that have.        Have a great day.                                                      Jim H ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2011 12:22 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.   Jim, Many thanks for the history on this engine. It is interesting to know that this was the fore runner of AHM/IHC. I'm going to look for some of the other engines that they produced. I would also like to hear from anyone that has repowered one of these and how they went about it. Richard in Vermont --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> wrote: > > Richard, > > Yes General Hobbies Corporation sold other steam engines that were in the same category as the cast metal 4-4-2 that you are talking about. I think a little history first is best. > > General Hobbies Corporation was in Philadelphia and was the fore runner of AHM. General Hobbies Corporation sold their items under the HO Train Company ( HOTCO ) label. Engines like the 4-4-2 were made in Japan by a company using the New One label. These New One engines were sold both by GHC / Hotco and Polk's Hobby of New York under the Aristo-Craft label. Both sold the same 4-4-2 engine like you have. > > General Hobbies / HOTCO also sold two other types of cast steam engines made by New One, Japan. Besides the 4-4-2 Atlantic they sold a 4-6-0 Camelback and an 0-4-0 Mother Hubbard of which there were two styles ( different details like the stack and different style little tenders. ). > > General Hobbies Corporation sold other steam engines but this only pertains to the cast metal New One of Japan types that the 4-4-2 falls into. As a side note GHC was the company that sold the New One copy of the Penn Line GG-1. > > Hope this helps. > > Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15913	From: jim heckard	Date: 1/24/2011
Subject: Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.

    Frank,        First let me say that "in my opinion" I totally agree with your assessment that the Japanese New One is a dead ringer for the Penn Line GG-1 when talking about the body and some other parts.. Going back a few years when the HOSC&H-SIG was in operation there was some discussion that went on where people were unsure if the Japanese version was made or even came here. There was an ad in MR. and / or RMC where a shipment was lost coming here due to a typhoon. It was because of this I wrote to Mr. Paul when he was at IHC to seek out information about the Japanese New One GG-1. ( I had obtained two near mint GHC GG-1's, one with O/B ) While I have to pull out the letter about the specifics I remember he stated the year the first one arrived in the US. I then used this as a basis for a story called the GG-1 Odyssey for our newsletter.       I also sought out a person who I feel is a Penn Line collector and "expert". His name is Bill M from Boyertown.  Maybe you know him or recognize his name. He knew all the owners quite well and was with the owners when the new dies for the Penn Line GG-1 arrived and if my memory is right was given set No.1 containing a GG-1 with freight cars.  Because of his knowledge then and the owners were no longer available I ask him his opinion and he felt as you do. The Japanese / Bernie Paul GG-1 is to perfect a copy.       I then took the 4 Penn Line GG-1's I have ( two different Pennsy colors, a Great Northern and a New Haven ) along with one of Sol Kramer's Varney products after he "bought out " the Penn Line design. I then added the two Japanese New One's to the mix. Talking about the bodies mostly they were all  perfect or near perfect copies in my eyes. I have to pull out the story I wrote and some info but other then some minor metal / plastic part changes on the drivers/ sideframes / leading and trailing trucks the big difference I seem to remember was something about metric screws.       I don't know copyright laws and how they applied at the time but I think Mr. Faust had every reason to be upset with Bernie Paul concerning the GG-1's. It will be interesting to know what others feel.                                            Jim H.     ----- Original Message ----- From: fydill@... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, January 24, 2011 3:13 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.   I read with interest about your correspondence with Mr. B. Paul and the GG-1.  I remember visiting the home of Bob Faust, Penn Line President, some 50 years ago. Mr. Faust was talking about how that "bleeping" Paul had sent Penn Line's GG-1 and some other locos to Japan to be copied.  He had evidence Paul had copied Penn Line's model rather than using original railroad specs. This evidence was that Paul's product incorporated all of the subtle compromises and inaccuracies of the Penn Line product. I know that the most obvious inaccuracy was the length of GG-1, but I wonder if anyone in the group knows of any other that would prove Mr. Faust's claim. Frank Dill -----Original Message----- From: jim heckard <jimheck@...> To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sun, Jan 23, 2011 4:41 am Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.   Richard, Bill,             Glad to know I was helpful. Mr. Bernie Paul, whose name in HO was well known, was a major player in General Hobbies Corporation, AHM and IHC. I had some personal correspondence with Mr. Paul on certain items especially the GG-1 that was made by New One, sold by GHC / HOTCO and was an almost perfect copy of the Penn Line GG-1.         I don't know to much about the Tenshodo brass connection and what was sold. This is why the history of vintage HO is interesting to me. Many companies and many people whose names are linked to vintage HO are intertwined.        As a collector I have not attempted to repower the engines we are talking about. Engines for my collection remain as they were originally whether they ran good, poor or just plain lousy. I'm sure there are many out there that have.        Have a great day.                                                      Jim H ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2011 12:22 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.   Jim, Many thanks for the history on this engine. It is interesting to know that this was the fore runner of AHM/IHC. I'm going to look for some of the other engines that they produced. I would also like to hear from anyone that has repowered one of these and how they went about it. Richard in Vermont --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> wrote: > > Richard, > > Yes General Hobbies Corporation sold other steam engines that were in the same category as the cast metal 4-4-2 that you are talking about. I think a little history first is best. > > General Hobbies Corporation was in Philadelphia and was the fore runner of AHM. General Hobbies Corporation sold their items under the HO Train Company ( HOTCO ) label. Engines like the 4-4-2 were made in Japan by a company using the New One label. These New One engines were sold both by GHC / Hotco and Polk's Hobby of New York under the Aristo-Craft label. Both sold the same 4-4-2 engine like you have. > > General Hobbies / HOTCO also sold two other types of cast steam engines made by New One, Japan. Besides the 4-4-2 Atlantic they sold a 4-6-0 Camelback and an 0-4-0 Mother Hubbard of which there were two styles ( different details like the stack and different style little tenders. ). > > General Hobbies Corporation sold other steam engines but this only pertains to the cast metal New One of Japan types that the 4-4-2 falls into. As a side note GHC was the company that sold the New One copy of the Penn Line GG-1. > > Hope this helps. > > Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15914	From: Nelson	Date: 1/24/2011
Subject: Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.

Interesting history, Jim. I bought a Varney GG1 on eBay about 8 years ago (at least it came in a Varney GG1 box), but the truck frames were plastic and the motor and parts said Japan on them. Was this the New One GG1, or did Varney eventually farm manufacturing out overseas? That's what I concluded when I had it, but it sounds more like it was a New One model in the wrong box, which had blue & white stripes and a wooden insert to hold the loco. The shell had become a little swaybacked over the years, and both headlight castings had crumbled. Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> wrote: > > Frank, > > First let me say that "in my opinion" I totally agree with your assessment that the Japanese New One is a dead ringer for the Penn Line GG-1 when talking about the body and some other parts.. Going back a few years when the HOSC&H-SIG was in operation there was some discussion that went on where people were unsure if the Japanese version was made or even came here. There was an ad in MR. and / or RMC where a shipment was lost coming here due to a typhoon. It was because of this I wrote to Mr. Paul when he was at IHC to seek out information about the Japanese New One GG-1. ( I had obtained two near mint GHC GG-1's, one with O/B ) While I have to pull out the letter about the specifics I remember he stated the year the first one arrived in the US. I then used this as a basis for a story called the GG-1 Odyssey for our newsletter. > > I also sought out a person who I feel is a Penn Line collector and "expert". His name is Bill M from Boyertown. Maybe you know him or recognize his name. He knew all the owners quite well and was with the owners when the new dies for the Penn Line GG-1 arrived and if my memory is right was given set No.1 containing a GG-1 with freight cars. Because of his knowledge then and the owners were no longer available I ask him his opinion and he felt as you do. The Japanese / Bernie Paul GG-1 is to perfect a copy. > > I then took the 4 Penn Line GG-1's I have ( two different Pennsy colors, a Great Northern and a New Haven ) along with one of Sol Kramer's Varney products after he "bought out " the Penn Line design. I then added the two Japanese New One's to the mix. Talking about the bodies mostly they were all perfect or near perfect copies in my eyes. I have to pull out the story I wrote and some info but other then some minor metal / plastic part changes on the drivers/ sideframes / leading and trailing trucks the big difference I seem to remember was something about metric screws. > > I don't know copyright laws and how they applied at the time but I think Mr. Faust had every reason to be upset with Bernie Paul concerning the GG-1's. It will be interesting to know what others feel. > > > > Jim H.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15915	From: Nelson	Date: 1/24/2011
Subject: Re: Chatanooga Choo-Choo

Rich, this is one instance where preserving originality may not be such a good thing, lol. The original motor had meager bearings that liked to squeal, and oiling them only put oil on the brushes, which made it sluggish and a better smoke unit than the one in the boiler. The IHC frame and drivers look like a perfect fit. What are the plates on the underside? Is that to hold extra pickup wipers? Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "VtHam" <rh@...> wrote: > > Hi Nelson, > Thanks for the info and photo about the pancake motor. I had never heard of that one. Looks pretty neat and a good way to preserve most of the original drive, if desired. Nice photo too. > > It's been a few years since I did my IHC conversion but as I remember it was just a matter of removing some of the boiler belly plastic to gain clearence for the IHC drive. I took three photos to show you my engine but I'm having trouble trying to get a link like you did for your photo. Perhaps the photos will go under group "Attachment". If not, I will put them in Group Photos. Regarding the tender, I used the IHC tender platform and wheels but I had to cut it in half and added a short section in the middle since the IHC tender was a bit shorter than the tyco tender. > Richard in Vermont

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15916	From: Nelson	Date: 1/24/2011
Subject: Re: Inside Scoop on IHC?

I know two guys who worked there from the AHM days, and Bernie Paul's death and the fact that no one was apparently interested in buying them out was their reason for closing. Mehano is interested in having one of these guys, Ray, become their US importer, and he said he'll be flying over there to talk, but he doesn't seem too keen on starting a new business venture at this point in his life. From what he was telling me it sounds more like he would be putting in orders with them for special runs for specific clients, like a scenic railroad he mentioned that wanted train sets. Time will tell if we see the Mehano line readily available again. I'll see him at a summer train show, so I'll be sure to ask him what's up. Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Riverboy <river_dweller_ohio@...> wrote: > > Do you think someone might pick up some of the line one day? They did have some nice stuff that just needed a little reworking. >   > Tod in Ohio > > >   > > > > > --- On Sun, 1/23/11, Chuck Higdon <vze5crrw1@...> wrote: > > > From: Chuck Higdon <vze5crrw1@...> > Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Inside Scoop on IHC? > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, January 23, 2011, 11:36 AM > > >   > > > > > > Richard, >   > The owner, Berne Paul passed away.  That would be the biggest reason.  The IHC passenger cars were just not up to par with the latest offerings from other companies, so I am sure that hurt the business also. >   > > Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104 >   > > > > > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Richard > Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2011 10:22 AM > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [vintageHO] Inside Scoop on IHC? >   >   > > > > Jim H., > That history you gave us on General Hobbies, AHM. etc. was most interesting and I am wondering if you could go a bit further if you have any inside track info on what happened to IHC to cause them to go out of business? Over the years they filled an important segment of our hobby and while their products where generic, they were also good runners for the most part, relatively inexpensive and lent themselves to kit bashing. For me, this company will be greatly missed (I am speaking mainly of IHC products). > Richard in Vermont >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15917	From: Richard	Date: 1/24/2011
Subject: Re: Chatanooga Choo-Choo

Nelson, You have excellent eye sight. I meant to mention that but forgot. That is layers of sheet lead to add some much needed weight. With that added weight she will pull six or seven passenger cars up a 3% grade. Just by dumb luck my wife noticed a string of Lima passenger cars, at a train show, with Royal Blue lettering on the sides. Even had the blue and silver paint scheme. I agree with you completely about that Tyco motor. The Mantua people must have been livid over that design. Richard in Vermont --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Nelson" <greenbrier614@...> wrote: > > Rich, this is one instance where preserving originality may not be such a good thing, lol. The original motor had meager bearings that liked to squeal, and oiling them only put oil on the brushes, which made it sluggish and a better smoke unit than the one in the boiler. > > The IHC frame and drivers look like a perfect fit. What are the plates on the underside? Is that to hold extra pickup wipers? > > Nelson > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "VtHam" <rh@> wrote: > > > > Hi Nelson, > > Thanks for the info and photo about the pancake motor. I had never heard of that one. Looks pretty neat and a good way to preserve most of the original drive, if desired. Nice photo too. > > > > It's been a few years since I did my IHC conversion but as I remember it was just a matter of removing some of the boiler belly plastic to gain clearence for the IHC drive. I took three photos to show you my engine but I'm having trouble trying to get a link like you did for your photo. Perhaps the photos will go under group "Attachment". If not, I will put them in Group Photos. Regarding the tender, I used the IHC tender platform and wheels but I had to cut it in half and added a short section in the middle since the IHC tender was a bit shorter than the tyco tender. > > Richard in Vermont >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15918	From: David	Date: 1/24/2011
Subject: Mantua Loop Couplers - How well do they work?

We all know how they look – but how well do they function? Specifically on very tight curves (12 -15" radius), curved-frog turnouts (Snap-switches and sharper), S-curves, and locos with long coupler-overhangs. While we're riding the Nightmare Limited, lets throw in pushing freight cars with truck-mounted couplers through all the above - Mantua/Tyco specialized in truck-mounts. That suggests that they didn't give as much trouble with the company's proprietary couplers as they did with the later styles. Does anybody have operating experience with the old loops? I'm looking for a low-maintenance coupler system on a minimum-space switching layout with a bit of cramped  turnback mainline and a fiddle-yard, to be operated with pre-1965 HO equipment. Mantua's little tank engines or – shudder – Athearn's 0-4-2, and solid-frame two-axle diesel-style switchers (PennLine's "midget diesel," Athearn's Hustler) are good short motive power but their massive end-overhangs mean that their swung-out couplers are always trying to pull the first car over the outside rail on sharp curves and esses (and frequently succeed). It's even worse when the car has truck-mounted couplers. I don't care about automatic uncoupling on ramps – I'm happy with using an uncoupling tool to unhook (but don't want to have to lift the car). I do want the cars and locos to auto-couple reliably on curves where knuckle-couplers and horn-hooks tend to miss each other (so you have to guide them into each other with fingers or tools). I know John Allen and others liked the Baker coupler for operation, but they're awfully scarce; there are still Mantua loops floating around at reasonable prices. I'd rather not refit American equipment with Euro couplers like Marklin's or old Fleischmann if I can avoid it. So, might the Mantua loops be a good choice?   - They look like they'd have a wide gathering range (ability to auto-couple and stay coupled without strain at a wide range of angles). Do they?   - How well do they function while pushing cars?   - With truck-mounts?   - How much finicky adjustment and maintenance do they take?   - Do they have any other quirks or problems, or virtues, I should be aware of? Any comments would be appreciated. -- D

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15919	From: Gerold Eckl	Date: 1/24/2011
Subject: Re: Inside Scoop on IHC?

On 1/25/2011 4:56 AM, Nelson wrote:   I know two guys who worked there from the AHM days, and Bernie Paul's death and the fact that no one was apparently interested in buying them out was their reason for closing. Mehano is interested in having one of these guys, Ray, become their US importer, and he said he'll be flying over there to talk, but he doesn't seem too keen on starting a new business venture at this point in his life. From what he was telling me it sounds more like he would be putting in orders with them for special runs for specific clients, like a scenic railroad he mentioned that wanted train sets. Time will tell if we see the Mehano line readily available again. I'll see him at a summer train show, so I'll be sure to ask him what's up. I thought Mehano of Slowenia went out of business some time ago? Or does the company still exist, maybe in the form of an office arranging for proof their stuff in the far east?

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15920	From: jim heckard	Date: 1/25/2011
Subject: Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.

Nelson,             I have to admit that I don't know much about what Sol Kramer did with the Penn Line GG-1 he got and sold under the Varney name he had acquired. These years and times are after what I was trying to piece together. It's even possible he got a boat load of already assembled ones or lots of parts from the PL auction. I don't think he would have thrown them away. These  change overs of stock and owners constantly produced leftovers. How you can keep track of these products would be hard.        I do know there is a report in the Varney Guide by Spanagel that some changes were made inside the body of the PL GG-1 by Sol Kramer that created a short that caused lots of problems. If you have this book it would be helpful to read.        As for the blue and white box with the wooden insert I believe it was one of the last boxes using the Varney name . I think others can be more definite about this. I once got a Pennsylvania GG-1, sure looked Penn Line,  in an orange and green box with that wooden support in. If I remember correctly ( the box is long gone ) it had something to do with Life Like which Mr. Kramer also became involved with.       I honestly don't remember having ever seen any mention of a deteriorating GG-1 BODY whether it be Penn Line, Varney or GHC / HOTCO. I do however have a mint kit No. 500K in O/B box. It has a picture of a GG-1 on the front and the word Varney in big white letters and the words in gold HO Custom kit.  The picture on the box has five gold strips and the number 4877 on it. Odd part is the same GG-1 with 5 strips and the No. 4877 is also on the GHC / HOTCO GG-1 box.  Yet the body in the box has a solid gold strip and the number 5796 ( many times seen on Penn Line engines ).      What it seems like to me is that after the end of Penn Line and with the GHC / HOTCO copy available it will be very hard to pinpoint and decide what's what, who was selling what because there could be a real mix going on. Did Sol Kramer and Bernie Paul come together and exchange GG-1's ?  I don't know. I wouldn't even venture to guess what the GG-1 you have is.      Would be glad to hear from others who have different information.                                                              Jim H         ----- Original Message ----- From: Nelson To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, January 24, 2011 10:01 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.   Interesting history, Jim. I bought a Varney GG1 on eBay about 8 years ago (at least it came in a Varney GG1 box), but the truck frames were plastic and the motor and parts said Japan on them. Was this the New One GG1, or did Varney eventually farm manufacturing out overseas? That's what I concluded when I had it, but it sounds more like it was a New One model in the wrong box, which had blue & white stripes and a wooden insert to hold the loco. The shell had become a little swaybacked over the years, and both headlight castings had crumbled. Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> wrote: > > Frank, > > First let me say that "in my opinion" I totally agree with your assessment that the Japanese New One is a dead ringer for the Penn Line GG-1 when talking about the body and some other parts.. Going back a few years when the HOSC&H-SIG was in operation there was some discussion that went on where people were unsure if the Japanese version was made or even came here. There was an ad in MR. and / or RMC where a shipment was lost coming here due to a typhoon. It was because of this I wrote to Mr. Paul when he was at IHC to seek out information about the Japanese New One GG-1. ( I had obtained two near mint GHC GG-1's, one with O/B ) While I have to pull out the letter about the specifics I remember he stated the year the first one arrived in the US. I then used this as a basis for a story called the GG-1 Odyssey for our newsletter. > > I also sought out a person who I feel is a Penn Line collector and "expert". His name is Bill M from Boyertown. Maybe you know him or recognize his name. He knew all the owners quite well and was with the owners when the new dies for the Penn Line GG-1 arrived and if my memory is right was given set No.1 containing a GG-1 with freight cars. Because of his knowledge then and the owners were no longer available I ask him his opinion and he felt as you do. The Japanese / Bernie Paul GG-1 is to perfect a copy. > > I then took the 4 Penn Line GG-1's I have ( two different Pennsy colors, a Great Northern and a New Haven ) along with one of Sol Kramer's Varney products after he "bought out " the Penn Line design. I then added the two Japanese New One's to the mix. Talking about the bodies mostly they were all perfect or near perfect copies in my eyes. I have to pull out the story I wrote and some info but other then some minor metal / plastic part changes on the drivers/ sideframes / leading and trailing trucks the big difference I seem to remember was something about metric screws. > > I don't know copyright laws and how they applied at the time but I think Mr. Faust had every reason to be upset with Bernie Paul concerning the GG-1's. It will be interesting to know what others feel. > > > > Jim H.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15921	From: al45390	Date: 1/25/2011
Subject: Re: Mantua Loop Couplers - How well do they work?

David, Let me throw a stone, for which I have no doubt I will be roundly stoned in turn. My favorite pre-KD, pre-X2F, coupler is the Gilbert 'automatic' coupler. Talgo-mounted, it meets your criteria, IMHO, and is less, shall we say homely, than the Mantua couplers. Unfortunately, Gilbert did not, to my knowledge, sell them on the after-market. And even if you did find a source for them, fabricating a suitable draft gear would be another major challenge. Good luck, Walter --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "David" <dnhelber@...> wrote: > > We all know how they look � but how well do they function? > > Specifically on very tight curves (12 -15" radius), curved-frog turnouts > (Snap-switches and sharper), S-curves, and locos with long > coupler-overhangs. While we're riding the Nightmare Limited, lets throw > in pushing freight cars with truck-mounted couplers through all the > above - Mantua/Tyco specialized in truck-mounts. That suggests that they > didn't give as much trouble with the company's proprietary couplers as > they did with the later styles. > > Does anybody have operating experience with the old loops? > > I'm looking for a low-maintenance coupler system on a minimum-space > switching layout with a bit of cramped turnback mainline and a > fiddle-yard, to be operated with pre-1965 HO equipment. Mantua's little > tank engines or � shudder � Athearn's 0-4-2, and solid-frame > two-axle diesel-style switchers (PennLine's "midget diesel," Athearn's > Hustler) are good short motive power but their massive end-overhangs > mean that their swung-out couplers are always trying to pull the first > car over the outside rail on sharp curves and esses (and frequently > succeed). It's even worse when the car has truck-mounted couplers. > > I don't care about automatic uncoupling on ramps � I'm happy with > using an uncoupling tool to unhook (but don't want to have to lift the > car). I do want the cars and locos to auto-couple reliably on curves > where knuckle-couplers and horn-hooks tend to miss each other (so you > have to guide them into each other with fingers or tools). > > I know John Allen and others liked the Baker coupler for operation, but > they're awfully scarce; there are still Mantua loops floating around at > reasonable prices. I'd rather not refit American equipment with Euro > couplers like Marklin's or old Fleischmann if I can avoid it. > > So, might the Mantua loops be a good choice? > - They look like they'd have a wide gathering range (ability to > auto-couple and stay coupled without strain at a wide range of angles). > Do they? > - How well do they function while pushing cars? > - With truck-mounts? > - How much finicky adjustment and maintenance do they take? > - Do they have any other quirks or problems, or virtues, I should be > aware of? > > Any comments would be appreciated. > > -- D >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15922	From: estabrook@aol.com	Date: 1/25/2011
Subject: Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.

Hi Steve - If you will contact me off list at my AOL address, I like to discuss your A/C Mike needs. Reed ---- Original Message ---- From: Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sun, Jan 23, 2011 12:11 pm Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.   I agree that the Frisco Mikado is a good runner. I had one (Operative word is 'Had'), until a squirrel that got into my apartment, knocked it off my work table to the floor, cracking the frame. I found the mikado is also oversized for HO. I also collect Scale-Craft OO scale, which I rework for HO track operation with new trucks and couplers, and found the GHC mike is a good engine for pulling those cars. Looks right at home, proportion-wise. Would LOVE to get a new frame, but as I would also need the driver wheels, and pilot truck, and money is tight right now, it has to wait. -Steve Neubaum --- On Sun, 1/23/11, estabrook@... <estabrook@...> wrote: From: estabrook@... <estabrook@...> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp. To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, January 23, 2011, 10:38 AM   Gents - This thread is fascinating to me because I have collected a number of both the GHC/Hotco and Aristocraft engines and still have several of them.  My first was one of the Atlantics I bought at a train show, without knowing anything about it. Later I found it to be a GHC with a Varney tender).  I subsequently found advertisements for Pacific Fast Mail (MRR 4/57) advertising a brass Atlantic by Tenshodo which looked very similar.  I bid on, but didn't win, about the year 2000, a Japanese brass engine in pieces with very similar drive to my GHC.  I have also heard of cast brass versions.  From that and discussions with others led me to suspect that New One evolved into Tenshodo.  It was good to hear Matt's confirmation of that. The GHC/Hotco 4-6-0 Camelback has been one of my favorites, being a CNJ prototype and I'm a CNJ fan.  It is hard to find them in good shape, especially the tenders. Lee Town made two versions of the tender, passenger and freight, as well as certain details for the engine. The GHC/Hotco 4-6-0 Ten Wheeler is another New One model and a pretty good representation of another CNJ engine.  It is interesting to note that Polk's sold both the New One version, as well as the Rivarossi "Casey Jones" ten wheeler in the late 50's. My other Aristo-Craft models made by New One are the 2-8-2 Frisco Mikado, and the 4-8-2 USRA Mountain, both excellent runners.  I have not had the inclination to re-power any of them. Reed -----Original Message----- From: jim heckard <jimheck@...> To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sun, Jan 23, 2011 9:41 am Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.   Richard, Bill,             Glad to know I was helpful. Mr. Bernie Paul, whose name in HO was well known, was a major player in General Hobbies Corporation, AHM and IHC. I had some personal correspondence with Mr. Paul on certain items especially the GG-1 that was made by New One, sold by GHC / HOTCO and was an almost perfect copy of the Penn Line GG-1.         I don't know to much about the Tenshodo brass connection and what was sold. This is why the history of vintage HO is interesting to me. Many companies and many people whose names are linked to vintage HO are intertwined.        As a collector I have not attempted to repower the engines we are talking about. Engines for my collection remain as they were originally whether they ran good, poor or just plain lousy. I'm sure there are many out there that have.        Have a great day.                                                      Jim H ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2011 12:22 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.   Jim, Many thanks for the history on this engine. It is interesting to know that this was the fore runner of AHM/IHC. I'm going to look for some of the other engines that they produced. I would also like to hear from anyone that has repowered one of these and how they went about it. Richard in Vermont --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> wrote: > > Richard, > > Yes General Hobbies Corporation sold other steam engines that were in the same category as the cast metal 4-4-2 that you are talking about. I think a little history first is best. > > General Hobbies Corporation was in Philadelphia and was the fore runner of AHM. General Hobbies Corporation sold their items under the HO Train Company ( HOTCO ) label. Engines like the 4-4-2 were made in Japan by a company using the New One label. These New One engines were sold both by GHC / Hotco and Polk's Hobby of New York under the Aristo-Craft label. Both sold the same 4-4-2 engine like you have. > > General Hobbies / HOTCO also sold two other types of cast steam engines made by New One, Japan. Besides the 4-4-2 Atlantic they sold a 4-6-0 Camelback and an 0-4-0 Mother Hubbard of which there were two styles ( different details like the stack and different style little tenders. ). > > General Hobbies Corporation sold other steam engines but this only pertains to the cast metal New One of Japan types that the 4-4-2 falls into. As a side note GHC was the company that sold the New One copy of the Penn Line GG-1. > > Hope this helps. > > Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15923	From: Nelson	Date: 1/25/2011
Subject: Re: Inside Scoop on IHC?

I think they declared bankruptcy and let the Slovenian assembly workers go. Ray did say that their manufacturing is now done in China. Funny that their website still shows their line of American models. It looks like they're now making the Mountain and Hudson with weathering and smoke, something that was never available through IHC. http://www.mehano.si/EN/models.php?Id=&idm=4&group3=4&see=1&sub2=2&title=7 Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Gerold Eckl <corv8@...> wrote: > > I thought Mehano of Slowenia went out of business some time ago? Or does > the company still exist, maybe in the form of an office arranging for > proof their stuff in the far east? >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15924	From: Nelson	Date: 1/25/2011
Subject: Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.

Very confusing, Jim. Maybe we should submit this mystery to Brad Meltzer's Decoded. I guess New One models were more plagued with zinc pest than Varney, but I've seen crumbling Varney locos too. The GG1 shell didn't have any cracking, it just bowed up a bit at the ends. One of the headlight castings was mostly gone, and the other was cracked in half, but I was able to glue it together. I was irked that it had damage that the seller hadn't declared, so I ended up sending it back for a refund. He got it back in much better shape than he sent it because I'd started repairs, and didn't refund my shipping cost as he'd promised. I remember that the Japanese motor was nothing to write home about. The whole thing seemed cheap compared to the Varney and Penn Line GG1's I'd seen with metal truck frames. The holes for the screws that held the truck covers on were weak and stripped, and I had to re-thread them with CA. Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > > Nelson, > > I have to admit that I don't know much about what Sol Kramer did with the Penn Line GG-1 he got and sold under the Varney name he had acquired. These years and times are after what I was trying to piece together. It's even possible he got a boat load of already assembled ones or lots of parts from the PL auction. I don't think he would have thrown them away. These change overs of stock and owners constantly produced leftovers. How you can keep track of these products would be hard. > > I do know there is a report in the Varney Guide by Spanagel that some changes were made inside the body of the PL GG-1 by Sol Kramer that created a short that caused lots of problems. If you have this book it would be helpful to read. > > As for the blue and white box with the wooden insert I believe it was one of the last boxes using the Varney name . I think others can be more definite about this. I once got a Pennsylvania GG-1, sure looked Penn Line, in an orange and green box with that wooden support in. If I remember correctly ( the box is long gone ) it had something to do with Life Like which Mr. Kramer also became involved with. > > I honestly don't remember having ever seen any mention of a deteriorating GG-1 BODY whether it be Penn Line, Varney or GHC / HOTCO. I do however have a mint kit No. 500K in O/B box. It has a picture of a GG-1 on the front and the word Varney in big white letters and the words in gold HO Custom kit. The picture on the box has five gold strips and the number 4877 on it. Odd part is the same GG-1 with 5 strips and the No. 4877 is also on the GHC / HOTCO GG-1 box. Yet the body in the box has a solid gold strip and the number 5796 ( many times seen on Penn Line engines ). > > What it seems like to me is that after the end of Penn Line and with the GHC / HOTCO copy available it will be very hard to pinpoint and decide what's what, who was selling what because there could be a real mix going on. Did Sol Kramer and Bernie Paul come together and exchange GG-1's ? I don't know. I wouldn't even venture to guess what the GG-1 you have is. > > Would be glad to hear from others who have different information. > > Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15925	From: David	Date: 1/25/2011
Subject: Re: Mantua Loop Couplers - How well do they work?

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "al45390" <bayerw2@...> wrote: >My favorite pre-KD, pre-X2F, coupler is the Gilbert 'automatic' coupler. Talgo-mounted, it meets your criteria, IMHO, and is less, shall we say homely, than the Mantua couplers. Unfortunately, Gilbert did not, to my knowledge, sell them on the after-market. And even if you did find a source for them, fabricating a suitable draft gear would be another major challenge. ============= Thanks for the input, Walter. I'm assuming you're talking about the knuckle couplers on the S-scale trains, since a look at the 1955 Gilbert catalog indicates the HO trains came out originally with horn-hook couplers. Actually, the truck-mounted (Talgo) system can meet my criteria with a knuckle coupler if all the equipment is equipped with them. But there is no good way to truck-mount couplers on the rigid-frame tank engines or diesels, so I'm still going to have a problem with knuckle-style couplers, even larger ones, when the loco's coupler is way over close to the outside rail and the talgo coupler on the first car is more or less between the rails. Even with the loop couplers, I may have to go to all body mounts.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15926	From: al45390	Date: 1/25/2011
Subject: Re: Mantua Loop Couplers - How well do they work?

No, I am talking about the pre- and post-war coupler that was unique to Gilbert HO. After a hiatus when they were out of HOby '55 they came back and went with the X2F. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "David" <dnhelber@...> wrote: > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "al45390" <bayerw2@> wrote: > >My favorite pre-KD, pre-X2F, coupler is the Gilbert 'automatic' > coupler. Talgo-mounted, it meets your criteria, IMHO, and is less, shall > we say homely, than the Mantua couplers. Unfortunately, Gilbert did not, > to my knowledge, sell them on the after-market. And even if you did find > a source for them, fabricating a suitable draft gear would be another > major challenge. > > ============= > > Thanks for the input, Walter. I'm assuming you're talking about the > knuckle couplers on the S-scale trains, since a look at the 1955 Gilbert > catalog indicates the HO trains came out originally with horn-hook > couplers. > > Actually, the truck-mounted (Talgo) system can meet my criteria with a > knuckle coupler if all the equipment is equipped with them. But there is > no good way to truck-mount couplers on the rigid-frame tank engines or > diesels, so I'm still going to have a problem with knuckle-style > couplers, even larger ones, when the loco's coupler is way over close to > the outside rail and the talgo coupler on the first car is more or less > between the rails. Even with the loop couplers, I may have to go to all > body mounts. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15927	From: Fred Hultberg	Date: 1/25/2011
Subject: Re: Chattanooga Choo-Choo and Variants

My nephew had a "chattanooga" sold by Tyco(made in China, of course); what a dud...   Nice runner by itself but not suitable for long trains. I have picked up a couple of non-runners at rrain shows for eanuts - add an MDC tender and push it with a real engine(Boswer in my case) which has enough "moxie" and it make a real pretty double-header. I use a Bowser L-1 and the 2-8-0 in a more-or-less B & O fashion for long drags.   I got sucked into trying to repair/tune up the Tyco piece but it's not worth it...   Next: The Royal was a crack passenger traind, usually pulled by at least a 4-6-4 ad I can't imagine it getting hauled around by a freight engine(which

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15928	From: Fred Hultberg	Date: 1/25/2011
Subject: Fw: Re: Chattanooga Choo-Choo and Variants - Rest of The Unfinished

Sorry - that got sent in the middle of a paragraph sopmehow - ah, the vagaries of the WB! Anyhow,. a 2-8-0 is a freight locomotive - once considered a heavy hauler but later usually bumped to local service or even switching duties, which they handled very well in their day.   Some remain on tourist lines, sometimes hauling a few passenger cars slowly and while not exactly "de rigeur," at least they're running!   With a sigh of relief, I am yours, Fred Hultberg(resident etching wizard, Fotocut®) --- On Tue, 1/25/11, Fred Hultberg <fhultberg@...> wrote: From: Fred Hultberg <fhultberg@...> Subject: Re: Chattanooga Choo-Choo and Variants To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, January 25, 2011, 8:16 PM My nephew had a "chattanooga" sold by Tyco(made in China, of course); what a dud...   Nice runner by itself but not suitable for long trains. I have picked up a couple of non-runners at rrain shows for eanuts - add an MDC tender and push it with a real engine(Boswer in my case) which has enough "moxie" and it make a real pretty double-header. I use a Bowser L-1 and the 2-8-0 in a more-or-less B & O fashion for long drags.   I got sucked into trying to repair/tune up the Tyco piece but it's not worth it...   Next: The Royal was a crack passenger traind, usually pulled by at least a 4-6-4 ad I can't imagine it getting hauled around by a freight engine(which

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15929	From: David	Date: 1/25/2011
Subject: Re: Mantua Loop Couplers - How well do they work?

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "al45390" <bayerw2@...> wrote: > > No, I am talking about the pre- and post-war coupler that was unique to Gilbert HO. After a hiatus when they were out of HOby '55 they came back and went with the X2F. > Sha-zam! Well, I must admit, my ignorance of Gilbert/AF is encyclopedic (in three gauges). I wasn't aware that there was Gilbert HO before the war. Sorry. That said, it's mortal hard to find pictures of that coupler on the web. The catalog pics of the old cars seem to be taken from track level, so you can't see much. Finally found one  that shows the shape, an angular hook-and-thumb vee in the reverse direction from knuckle couplers, but no details. The wide spread makes it look like it would have good gathering range, so it might be a pretty good choice for what I'm after. If any were available. Which, evidently, they aren't. Can you point me to a decent photo that shows the details, and maybe the draft-gear end and associated springs and hardware? Did it have centering springs or did it press over to one side, like the horn-hook? -- David

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15930	From: David	Date: 1/25/2011
Subject: Re: Lionel

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "trainsnwrcs" <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: > Already spoken for. > Like, 5 minutes later. > > Gee, I've gotta get quicker on the draw. Well, Dave, if anybody drops four more on you, send two to Don and the next two to me. We'll cover the shipping costs. I think the GP30s, with those batwing dynamic brake blisters, were the best-looking of the early Geeps. -- David > > > So, last night someone dropped off a small box of "old" H0 stuff. > > > I sorted it out....."Fundimensions" by Lionel, made in Hong Kong. > > > Well, I have a whole bunch of Lionel FA's, figured these two GP30's would > > > be the same drives. > > > Nope. > > > Bachmann. > > > In fact, if you go to HO Seeker, the #181 BN GP30's are shown on both the > > > Lionel page AND the Bachmann page. > > > > > > Cleaned and lubed, light bars re-glued into one, now I think I'll pitch > > > them. > > > I want NO Bachmann stuff. > > > > > > When did Lionel use Bachmann for their drives? > > > Dave > > > > Heck, if you don't want them I'll take them. The drives are junk but the > > bodies were state of the art at the time, the same shell went to Front Range > > as well as Bachmann. > > > > Don > > > > Don Dellmann > > don.dellmann@ > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ > > http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction > > Owner > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15931	From: al45390	Date: 1/26/2011
Subject: Re: Mantua Loop Couplers - How well do they work?

I'll take some pix and post them. Pls give me a day or 2. Walter --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "David" <dnhelber@...> wrote: > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "al45390" <bayerw2@> wrote: > > > > No, I am talking about the pre- and post-war coupler that was unique > to Gilbert HO. After a hiatus when they were out of HOby '55 they came > back and went with the X2F. > > > > Sha-zam! Well, I must admit, my ignorance of Gilbert/AF is encyclopedic > (in three gauges). I wasn't aware that there was Gilbert HO before the > war. Sorry. > > That said, it's mortal hard to find pictures of that coupler on the web. > The catalog pics of the old cars seem to be taken from track level, so > you can't see much. Finally found one > <http://cgi.ebay.com/FLYER-GILBERT-HO-SHELL-TANK-CAR-EX-/230576710009?pt\ > =Model_RR_Trains&hash=item35af716179> that shows the shape, an angular > hook-and-thumb vee in the reverse direction from knuckle couplers, but > no details. The wide spread makes it look like it would have good > gathering range, so it might be a pretty good choice for what I'm after. > > If any were available. > > Which, evidently, they aren't. > > Can you point me to a decent photo that shows the details, and maybe the > draft-gear end and associated springs and hardware? Did it have > centering springs or did it press over to one side, like the horn-hook? > > -- David >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15932	From: Matthew	Date: 1/26/2011
Subject: Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.

Steve and all, I have one of the Frisco Mikados by GHC and have read several times that they are over-scale. So, just for grins, I compared them with the drawings that appeared in old RMC (early 1950s) of this loco, and compared it directly with an Athearn/Genesis USRA Mikado. The GHC loco is too long, apparently to accommodate the driver flanges and other mechanism parts, but the boiler and cab, while they sit too high (to accommodate the motor?), are nearly the same size as the Genesis loco. The loco has some odd proportions due to the chassis length and height above the rails, but overall, all the parts appear to be HO scale. I plan to keep mine original, but they certainly could be lowered to scale height and be a very good looking loco. Matt Matt > > > I agree that the Frisco Mikado is a good runner. I had one (Operative word is 'Had'), until a squirrel that got into my apartment, knocked it off my work table to the floor, cracking the frame. > > I found the mikado is also oversized for HO. I also collect Scale-Craft OO scale, which I rework for HO track operation with new trucks and couplers, and found the GHC mike is a good engine for pulling those cars. Looks right at home, proportion-wise. > > Would LOVE to get a new frame, but as I would also need the driver wheels, and pilot truck, and money is tight right now, it has to wait. > > -Steve Neubaum >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15933	From: jim heckard	Date: 1/26/2011
Subject: New addition to vintage collection

Thanks to help from good friend Sean N. I was able to purchase a rare vintage item that many probably never heard of.  If you go to eBay item  350434059628   Rare Cast Alloy Santa Fe PA Alco Diesel Shell.   This cast aluminum shell was made by a company called Hobbies Inc. It was made around 1949-1950. Their first PA Alco was a wood and  stamped aluminum kit. This solid cast body came second. It will be stripped down to the bare metal.        I don't have to much information about the company right at hand but both MR and / or  RMC had ads about the company and the engine. I have to go back and search for them. I do have two other sources to look that has some information. Lenahan's Locomotive Lexicon Volume II and "The Reporting Mark Newsletter" of the old HOSC&H-SIG. I must refresh my memory as I'm not quite sure if Hobbies Inc. produced other style engines or in different materials then stated above.   It will take a while without indexes to find what I want but thought members would like to see something from the past.                                        Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15934	From: Russ Shiel	Date: 1/26/2011
Subject: Hobbies Inc

Re Jim's   >It will take a while without indexes to find what I want but thought members would like to see something from the past. <   'The Reporting Mark' V. 15(4) p 4 has mention of the Hobbies Inc Alco pass. diesels (by Dave Spanagel).   I'm still working on an index for V. 16-24 of TRM...underestimated complexity of task!! Will advise if anything further found on Hobbies Inc.   Chrs! Russ

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15935	From: Russ Shiel	Date: 1/26/2011
Subject: addendum to Hobbies Inc

Oops! fingers faster than brain...   Forgot to include:   MR ad for the Hobbies Inc Alco PA shells is in the Sept '49 issue.   There is an ?earlier Hobbies Inc ad for die-stamped aluminium EMD E-unit shells in 'The Reporting Mark' article.   Russ again

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15936	From: jim heckard	Date: 1/26/2011
Subject: Re: Hobbies Inc

Hi Russ,             Thanks for helping save me a lot of searching. I have the first part ( half ) of The Reporting Mark index but not the latter. I also have the ad from MR somewhere but sometimes it's hard to remember all the information off the top of ones head and sometimes even harder to find what you are looking for.      I have to find out more about Pearlier Hobbies Inc. I wonder are they and Hobbies Inc one in the same. I do have information about stamped aluminum bodies for the first Alco run but I thought I remembered they made some other bodies. Your mention of E unit stamped aluminum parts seems to fall in with what I read if this Pearlier is the same.      Down to the basement to find Spanagels write up and to search for the MR ad.  If you ever get the second part of The Reporting Mark index done I know one buyer. How are things down under ? Did the floods abate ?                                   Thanks,                                   Jim H ----- Original Message ----- From: Russ Shiel To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 5:13 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Hobbies Inc   Re Jim's   >It will take a while without indexes to find what I want but thought members would like to see something from the past. <   'The Reporting Mark' V. 15(4) p 4 has mention of the Hobbies Inc Alco pass. diesels (by Dave Spanagel).   I'm still working on an index for V. 16-24 of TRM...underestimated complexity of task!! Will advise if anything further found on Hobbies Inc.   Chrs! Russ

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15937	From: al45390	Date: 1/26/2011
Subject: Vintage Passenger car kit on Ebay

Can anyone comment on this listing: "280621134854" ? Photos of the box label end and the whole instruction sheet would have been instructive. brent_ia, are you a member of this group? Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15938	From: jim heckard	Date: 1/26/2011
Subject: Hobbies Inc. ads

Russ,              I found The Reporting Mark  Volume 15 Number 4 Page 4 with the two different ads for Hobbies Inc. along with a couple of questions by Dave Spanagel. That first ad shows E units only and talks about die stamped aluminum with wood parts. ( No mention or picture of a PA Alco ).       The bottom ad does show the cast aluminum PA Alco by itself. This would be the same as I just got.       The discrepancy is that I have information about a PA Alco made from stamped aluminum parts and wood which was to be the first type or run before the all cast aluminum one.        Now  I have to wonder if that first type PA Alco was ever made or was there a mistake someone made and it was only an E unit made from stamped aluminum and wood.                                Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15939	From: jay matz	Date: 1/26/2011
Subject: Re: New addition to vintage collection

Jim I have an A+B+A that was my Dads he got it in the early 50s. he put an Lindsey power unit in the As with a dummy B. Jay

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15940	From: jim heckard	Date: 1/26/2011
Subject: Re: New addition to vintage collection

 Jay,            Thanks for the reply and information. I know you had to add your own drives to the bodies. Lindsay was a popular chose. This A-B-A lash up is PA Alcos right ???  I had never heard of Hobbies Inc.having B units but that is because there is so little information out there.         Not only because the engines were your dads but I hope you can hold on to them. A little bit of vintage HO history.                                                Jim H ----- Original Message ----- From: jay matz To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 6:33 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] New addition to vintage collection   Jim I have an A+B+A that was my Dads he got it in the early 50s. he put an Lindsey power unit in the As with a dummy B. Jay

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15941	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/26/2011
Subject: Re: Vintage Passenger car kit on Ebay

----- Original Message ----- From: "al45390" <bayerw2@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 5:23 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Vintage Passenger car kit on Ebay > Can anyone comment on this listing: "280621134854" ? > Photos of the box label end and the whole instruction sheet would have > been instructive. brent_ia, are you a member of this group? > > Walter I tell ya, that sure is tempting! Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15942	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/26/2011
Subject: Re: Hobbies Inc. ads

I wonder if that's what my mystery E-6 is. You may recall we went around about it a couple years ago. Metal sides and roof in one piece, nose is wood. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 5:31 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Hobbies Inc. ads Russ, I found The Reporting Mark Volume 15 Number 4 Page 4 with the two different ads for Hobbies Inc. along with a couple of questions by Dave Spanagel. That first ad shows E units only and talks about die stamped aluminum with wood parts. ( No mention or picture of a PA Alco ). The bottom ad does show the cast aluminum PA Alco by itself. This would be the same as I just got. The discrepancy is that I have information about a PA Alco made from stamped aluminum parts and wood which was to be the first type or run before the all cast aluminum one. Now I have to wonder if that first type PA Alco was ever made or was there a mistake someone made and it was only an E unit made from stamped aluminum and wood. Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15943	From: jim heckard	Date: 1/26/2011
Subject: Re: Hobbies Inc. ads

Don,       I remember your picture of that E-6 engine with the wood nose distinctly.. I also remember trying to pin down what it was. I think, at that time, we discussed the possibility it was this Hobbies Inc E unit engine that is described in the ad. I don't know if you have access to the ad. I could send you a picture but the ad is on the poor side to start with being copied in a newsletter. I will try to copy the wording for you. Might help.                          H-O Diesel Locomotive                         Sides    Ends    Roof    Perfect detail reproduced faithfully in gleaming side stamped .  Aluminum.     Now it is simple and inexpensive to build that    roster of DIESELS you've needed to complete your railroad.                  2 sides       2 ends    &    1 Roof                  with all wood parts,           $2.00                             HOBBIES INC.                       707 North Gower Street                        Hollywood 38, California       While it talks about wood parts I don't see a wood nose mentioned specifically which doesn't mean it wasn't part of the kit. Trying to reach back to when your engine was discussed I keep remembering there was something that kept us for saying Hobbies Inc for your engine. Did it possibly have something to do with the type of metal being different then the aluminum mentioned. Just wondering. I really hope you could get the ID for your knowledge.                                                 Jim H ----- Original Message ----- From: Don Dellmann To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 7:48 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Hobbies Inc. ads   I wonder if that's what my mystery E-6 is. You may recall we went around about it a couple years ago. Metal sides and roof in one piece, nose is wood. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 5:31 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Hobbies Inc. ads Russ, I found The Reporting Mark Volume 15 Number 4 Page 4 with the two different ads for Hobbies Inc. along with a couple of questions by Dave Spanagel. That first ad shows E units only and talks about die stamped aluminum with wood parts. ( No mention or picture of a PA Alco ). The bottom ad does show the cast aluminum PA Alco by itself. This would be the same as I just got. The discrepancy is that I have information about a PA Alco made from stamped aluminum parts and wood which was to be the first type or run before the all cast aluminum one. Now I have to wonder if that first type PA Alco was ever made or was there a mistake someone made and it was only an E unit made from stamped aluminum and wood. Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15944	From: jbark76	Date: 1/26/2011
Subject: Re: Vintage Passenger car kit on Ebay

I have this kit with the instructions (the end of the box is un-readable). It is what JC called a 68' combination. I have a paper one and the "Silver Sides" version. What would you like to know? -Jeff-

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15945	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 1/26/2011
Subject: Re: New addition to vintage collection

Interesting......... I've never heard of the company........ But I got one of the bodies in shining bare metal about five years ago. I've tried to find out who made it, but no one knew at the time. Finally, I know.......... Best to ya, Mike Bauers Milwaukee, Wi On Jan 26, 2011, at 3:19 PM, jim heckard wrote: > > > > > > Thanks to help from good friend Sean N. I was able to purchase > a rare vintage item that many probably never heard of. If you go to > eBay item 350434059628 Rare Cast Alloy Santa Fe PA Alco Diesel > Shell. This cast aluminum shell was made by a company called > Hobbies Inc. It was made around 1949-1950. Their first PA Alco was a > wood and stamped aluminum kit. This solid cast body came second. It > will be stripped down to the bare metal. > > I don't have to much information about the company right at > hand but both MR and / or RMC had ads about the company and the > engine. I have to go back and search for them. I do have two other > sources to look that has some information. Lenahan's Locomotive > Lexicon Volume II and "The Reporting Mark Newsletter" of the old > HOSC&H-SIG. I must refresh my memory as I'm not quite sure if > Hobbies Inc. produced other style engines or in different materials > then stated above. > > It will take a while without indexes to find what I want but thought > members would like to see something from the past. > > Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15946	From: jay matz	Date: 1/26/2011
Subject: Re: New addition to vintage collection

Jim They are Alco PAs  . They are packed away somewhere. I will look for them. Jay

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15947	From: fydill@aol.com	Date: 1/26/2011
Subject: Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.

Jim,     Thank you for your reply.  I do know Bill and agree with you that he is quite a Penn Line expert.   Frank Dill -----Original Message----- From: jim heckard <jimheck@...> To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Mon, Jan 24, 2011 12:12 pm Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.       Frank,        First let me say that "in my opinion" I totally agree with your assessment that the Japanese New One is a dead ringer for the Penn Line GG-1 when talking about the body and some other parts.. Going back a few years when the HOSC&H-SIG was in operation there was some discussion that went on where people were unsure if the Japanese version was made or even came here. There was an ad in MR. and / or RMC where a shipment was lost coming here due to a typhoon. It was because of this I wrote to Mr. Paul when he was at IHC to seek out information about the Japanese New One GG-1. ( I had obtained two near mint GHC GG-1's, one with O/B ) While I have to pull out the letter about the specifics I remember he stated the year the first one arrived in the US. I then used this as a basis for a story called the GG-1 Odyssey for our newsletter.       I also sought out a person who I feel is a Penn Line collector and "expert". His name is Bill M from Boyertown.  Maybe you know him or recognize his name. He knew all the owners quite well and was with the owners when the new dies for the Penn Line GG-1 arrived and if my memory is right was given set No.1 containing a GG-1 with freight cars.  Because of his knowledge then and the owners were no longer available I ask him his opinion and he felt as you do. The Japanese / Bernie Paul GG-1 is to perfect a copy.       I then took the 4 Penn Line GG-1's I have ( two different Pennsy colors, a Great Northern and a New Haven ) along with one of Sol Kramer's Varney products after he "bought out " the Penn Line design. I then added the two Japanese New One's to the mix. Talking about the bodies mostly they were all  perfect or near perfect copies in my eyes. I have to pull out the story I wrote and some info but other then some minor metal / plastic part changes on the drivers/ sideframes / leading and trailing trucks the big difference I seem to remember was something about metric screws.       I don't know copyright laws and how they applied at the time but I think Mr. Faust had every reason to be upset with Bernie Paul concerning the GG-1's. It will be interesting to know what others feel.                                            Jim H.     ----- Original Message ----- From: fydill@... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, January 24, 2011 3:13 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.   I read with interest about your correspondence with Mr. B. Paul and the GG-1.  I remember visiting the home of Bob Faust, Penn Line President, some 50 years ago. Mr. Faust was talking about how that "bleeping" Paul had sent Penn Line's GG-1 and some other locos to Japan to be copied.  He had evidence Paul had copied Penn Line's model rather than using original railroad specs. This evidence was that Paul's product incorporated all of the subtle compromises and inaccuracies of the Penn Line product. I know that the most obvious inaccuracy was the length of GG-1, but I wonder if anyone in the group knows of any other that would prove Mr. Faust's claim. Frank Dill -----Original Message----- From: jim heckard <jimheck@...> To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sun, Jan 23, 2011 4:41 am Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.   Richard, Bill,             Glad to know I was helpful. Mr. Bernie Paul, whose name in HO was well known, was a major player in General Hobbies Corporation, AHM and IHC. I had some personal correspondence with Mr. Paul on certain items especially the GG-1 that was made by New One, sold by GHC / HOTCO and was an almost perfect copy of the Penn Line GG-1.         I don't know to much about the Tenshodo brass connection and what was sold. This is why the history of vintage HO is interesting to me. Many companies and many people whose names are linked to vintage HO are intertwined.        As a collector I have not attempted to repower the engines we are talking about. Engines for my collection remain as they were originally whether they ran good, poor or just plain lousy. I'm sure there are many out there that have.        Have a great day.                                                      Jim H ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2011 12:22 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: HO Scale 4-4-2 Atlantic made by General Hobbies Corp.   Jim, Many thanks for the history on this engine. It is interesting to know that this was the fore runner of AHM/IHC. I'm going to look for some of the other engines that they produced. I would also like to hear from anyone that has repowered one of these and how they went about it. Richard in Vermont --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> wrote: > > Richard, > > Yes General Hobbies Corporation sold other steam engines that were in the same category as the cast metal 4-4-2 that you are talking about. I think a little history first is best. > > General Hobbies Corporation was in Philadelphia and was the fore runner of AHM. General Hobbies Corporation sold their items under the HO Train Company ( HOTCO ) label. Engines like the 4-4-2 were made in Japan by a company using the New One label. These New One engines were sold both by GHC / Hotco and Polk's Hobby of New York under the Aristo-Craft label. Both sold the same 4-4-2 engine like you have. > > General Hobbies / HOTCO also sold two other types of cast steam engines made by New One, Japan. Besides the 4-4-2 Atlantic they sold a 4-6-0 Camelback and an 0-4-0 Mother Hubbard of which there were two styles ( different details like the stack and different style little tenders. ). > > General Hobbies Corporation sold other steam engines but this only pertains to the cast metal New One of Japan types that the 4-4-2 falls into. As a side note GHC was the company that sold the New One copy of the Penn Line GG-1. > > Hope this helps. > > Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15948	From: al45390	Date: 1/27/2011
Subject: Pre-War Gilbert Tru-Model freight train set on Ebay

Since this is listed under S Scale and O Scale only, NOT under HO where it belongs, I thought I should call it to the groups attention. This is really vintage! http://cgi.ebay.com/AM-FLYER-TRU-MODEL-HO-SET-w-HUDSON-BX-TANK-GOND-CABOOSE-/180615210985?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item2a0d8167e9 Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15949	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 1/27/2011
Subject: Gilbert pre-X2F 'automatic' couplers (Was "Mantua Loop Couplers - Ho

David, Pending the completion of charging my camera, here is a link to the 1948 Gilbert Ho catalog index, "http://www.myflyertrains.org/AF_Catalogs/D1517/AF_catalog_index1.htm". This catalog and many other Gilbert  catalogs are on the "MyFlyerTrains.org" website. -- Regards, Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15950	From: David	Date: 1/27/2011
Subject: Re: Gilbert pre-X2F 'automatic' couplers (Was "Mantua Loop Couplers

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Walter Bayer II <bayerw2@...> wrote: > Pending the completion of charging my camera, here is a link to the 1948 > Gilbert Ho catalog index, " Thanks, Walter. The catalog photos give me a little better idea of the couplers, but wow! I now know what kind of rectifier I want if I ever manage to acquire the Atlas Turbo Express rail-cars. Right out of a Flash Gordon movie - use it for Sci-Fi scenery while it turns your AC into DC. -- D

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15951	From: David	Date: 1/27/2011
Subject: Mantua Coupler Experience?

C'mon guys ... surely someone has some experience with the Mantua Loop Couplers. Can anyone give me info on how they perform in general - Do they reliably couple on contact? Do they reliably stay coupled when pulling and pushing? Can you easily use a handheld tool to uncouple? And/or how they perform on sub-15" radius curves - Do they auto-couple on tight curves? Do they stay coupled better and cause fewer derailments on tight curves than horn-hook or Kadee? I don't mind the looks - there's a nifty retro quality to them with old equipment on a minimum-space layout. I just want some info before gambling on buying a batch to experiment with on 13"-15" curves. Thanks to anyone who responds. -- David

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15952	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 1/27/2011
Subject: Re: Mantua Coupler Experience?

I use them. *If adjusted right, and the hook is not badly deformed by previous owners, yes. Hook can easily be adjusted by comparing to a "known good" and bending with straight hemostats. *Absolutely *No. The pins are pretty far under the car end, but I am sure someone has developed a "tool" for it. *I only have 3/4 of a circle of 12" curves, so can't tell you on sub-15" radius. *How tight? *I think so. Since I am always on the prowl for Mantuas, I hate to have someone else on the same hunt.....but, go for it. They were "the standard" before Kadees. Dave > C'mon guys ... surely someone has some experience with the Mantua Loop > Couplers. > > Can anyone give me info on how they perform in general - > > * Do they reliably couple on contact? > * Do they reliably stay coupled when pulling and pushing? > * Can you easily use a handheld tool to uncouple? > And/or how they perform on sub-15" radius curves - > > * Do they auto-couple on tight curves? > * Do they stay coupled better and cause fewer derailments on tight > curves than horn-hook or Kadee? > > I don't mind the looks - there's a nifty retro quality to them with old > equipment on a minimum-space layout. I just want some info before > gambling on buying a batch to experiment with on 13"-15" curves. > > Thanks to anyone who responds. > > -- David >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15953	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 1/27/2011
Subject: Re: Mantua Coupler Experience?

Those couplers were in a set of Mantua kits  bought in 1953.  They couple well and stay coupled, not sure how you could uncouple them without a ramp.  Once had a string tip over in a derailment one after the other.  Next I tried Varney automatics, they had the same issues, about that time X2f's from NMRA came out, quickly switched to KD and used them  ever since.  Roger Aultman      ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2011 2:05 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Mantua Coupler Experience?   C'mon guys ... surely someone has some experience with the Mantua Loop Couplers. Can anyone give me info on how they perform in general - Do they reliably couple on contact? Do they reliably stay coupled when pulling and pushing? Can you easily use a handheld tool to uncouple? And/or how they perform on sub-15" radius curves - Do they auto-couple on tight curves? Do they stay coupled better and cause fewer derailments on tight curves than horn-hook or Kadee? I don't mind the looks - there's a nifty retro quality to them with old equipment on a minimum-space layout. I just want some info before gambling on buying a batch to experiment with on 13"-15" curves. Thanks to anyone who responds. -- David

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15954	From: Jim Waterman	Date: 1/27/2011
Subject: Re: New addition to vintage collection

Very cool item. I've never seen another What are you going to do for a drive? This beast wants to run! Jim Waterman

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15955	From: David	Date: 1/27/2011
Subject: Re: Mantua Coupler Experience?

Thanks for the information, Dave and Roger. To answer Roger's questions, --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Dave sayss: > I use them. > > Can anyone give me info on how they perform in general - > > > > * Do they reliably couple on contact? > > * Do they reliably stay coupled when pulling and pushing? > > * Can you easily use a handheld tool to uncouple? > *If adjusted right, and the hook is not badly deformed by previous owners, yes. Hook can easily be adjusted by comparing to a "known good" and bending with straight hemostats. > *Absolutely > *No. The pins are pretty far under the car end, but I am sure someone has developed a "tool" for it. > > And/or how they perform on sub-15" radius curves - > *I only have 3/4 of a circle of 12" curves, so can't tell you on sub-15" radius. If you're happy with the loop couplers, I assume they are handling your 3/4 circle of 12"R well enough. Your 12" is under 15, and I doubt I'll have more than 3/4 of a circle in one place. > > * Do they auto-couple on tight curves? > *How tight? It will probably be 13"R. I'll tighten in the middle to 12" if I have to, but with a bit of an easement to lead in. Tests I've done indicate that at 12"R, 40' cars can start bumping corners. I might be able to go tighter if I used shorter cars, but I want to stick with 40-footers. > > * Do they stay coupled better and cause fewer derailments on tight > > curves than horn-hook or Kadee? > *I think so. > > Since I am always on the prowl for Mantuas, I hate to have someone else on the same hunt.....but, go for it. I sympathize with your situation, but I probably won't remove more than 20 pairs from the market, total. Just enough cars for a very small switching layout and 8-car fiddle yard. Thanks again to all for taking the time to reply. -- David

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15956	From: al45390	Date: 1/28/2011
Subject: Re: Gilbert pre-X2F 'automatic' couplers (Was "Mantua Loop Couplers

David, I took the photos, "Photo-Shop"ed them, and created a new album titled, "Gilbert pre-X2F Couplers". I am the original owner since my childhood of the post War RPO and tank car. The pre-War coach was bought on Ebay a few years back. Note that the the couplers are Talgo mounted on the post War cars and body mounted on the pre-War car. On the latter you can see the spring mechanism. By the way, I do not know if the couplers on the pre-War coach are original or if they were replaced by copies. To me, they don't look original. Maybe someone in the group can enlighten us. If anyone in the group has a few of the Gilbert couplers, post War draft gear, and or pre-War spring mechanisms, I'd like to buy them from you. Walter --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "David" <dnhelber@...> wrote: > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Walter Bayer II <bayerw2@> wrote: > > > Pending the completion of charging my camera, here is a link to the > 1948 > > Gilbert Ho catalog index, " > > Thanks, Walter. The catalog photos give me a little better idea of the > couplers, but wow! I now know what kind of rectifier > <http://www.myflyertrains.org/AF_Catalogs/D1517/AF_catalog_page14-15.htm\ > > I want if I ever manage to acquire the Atlas Turbo Express rail-cars > <http://www.hoseeker.net/AthearnBrochuresAds/TURBORACERFLYER.jpg> . > Right out of a Flash Gordon movie - use it for Sci-Fi scenery while it > turns your AC into DC. > > -- D >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15957	From: Wally Weart	Date: 1/28/2011
Subject: Re: Mantua Coupler Experience?

I started model railroading in 1952 with Strombecker cars, Globe diesels and a Varney dockside. I used Mantua couplers as that was one of the few options I had. They worked OK and would uncouple with a ramp. The loop allowed the car on which they were mounted to take the  typical tight radius curves common in those days. Uncoupling by hand was difficult as you get the hook to slip off the loop, not always easily done. Of course, they were also were completely unrealistic in appearance. I tried the early Roundhouse knuckle couplers and, at least they looked better. Wally

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15958	From: James Bartelt	Date: 1/28/2011
Subject: (no subject)

http://mlykatka.ic.cz/goodpeople.php

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15959	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/29/2011
Subject: JC Cardstock combine

I see the JC Combine on eBay mentioned here last week has a bid. I was going to bid as it got close to the end, but is it anyone here who bid? If it is I don't want to step on any toes. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15960	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/29/2011
Subject: Re: (unknown)

Careful, it appears Jim address book was compromised. This is a reason I stay away from Facebook, Twitter and all the other networking sites. While they sound like fun, all they are is address harvesters for spam. The worst, and I have mentioned it before, is Grouply. ANYONE on any of my lists, if it's found out they've joined Grouply, is IMMEDIATELY dropped from the list without warning/ (This IS the warning) Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Bartelt" <scrimjimmy@...>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15961	From: jim heckard	Date: 1/29/2011
Subject: Re: (unknown)

Hi Don,       Just for clarification when you talk about Jim's address book being compromised you are talking about James Bartelt and not me Jim H.       I don't use Twitter, Facebook or other things similar and have a router on my system to limit the chance to be compromised. I want people who contact me either on site or off that I have no problem.   Thanks                                                          Jim H  ----- Original Message ----- From: Don Dellmann To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2011 9:43 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] (unknown)   Careful, it appears Jim address book was compromised. This is a reason I stay away from Facebook, Twitter and all the other networking sites. While they sound like fun, all they are is address harvesters for spam. The worst, and I have mentioned it before, is Grouply. ANYONE on any of my lists, if it's found out they've joined Grouply, is IMMEDIATELY dropped from the list without warning/ (This IS the warning) Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Bartelt" <scrimjimmy@...>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15962	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 1/29/2011
Subject: Re: (unknown)

Never heard of Grouply. So, I looked. This from the snopes discussion board: There are a few new services coming online which are social "networking" sites similar to My Space and Facebook. One of these new services is called "Grouply". Grouply is tapping Yahoo lists and reposting the messages to Grouply members. As soon as ONE list member joins this service, all of our messages will then be archived by Grouply. Grouply changes your email address to (yourname)@grouply. com. for the purpose of your Yahoo list mail only. They will also go into your Yahoo account and change all of your preferences regarding how you view your mail, whether you get individual posts or digests, and whether you can be directly added to any of a million other Yahoo groups. In order to do this, Grouply requires that you give them your Yahoo ID and password. I am truly hoping that most of our members are smart enough not to hand over that information to ANYONE--especially to another web service! There is no guarantee that this information that Grouply is aggregating is secure, thus leaving your sign-in info available to spammers and hackers--including all of our list files and photos. At this point, there is no way for us to block Grouply's access to our list (although that is being worked on). Until there is, I will be checking daily for list members who may have innocently joined Grouply. I will be unsubbing and banning them, plus making direct contact with them explaining why we will not allow this in our membership. They will be welcome to rejoin once they unsub from Grouply. > > Careful, it appears Jim address book was compromised. > > This is a reason I stay away from Facebook, Twitter and all the other > networking sites. While they sound like fun, all they are is address > harvesters for spam. > > The worst, and I have mentioned it before, is Grouply. ANYONE on any of my > lists, if it's found out they've joined Grouply, is IMMEDIATELY dropped from > the list without warning/ (This IS the warning) > > Don > > Don Dellmann > don.dellmann@... > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ > http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction > Owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "James Bartelt" <scrimjimmy@...> >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15963	From: George Frey	Date: 1/29/2011
Subject: Re: (unknown)

Grouply IS spam do not sign up!!!!   George E. Frey Sr Proud member of 1/87 yahoo Military Models group orangetrainman33@...   From: trainsnwrcs <idioticyahoo@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, January 29, 2011 10:08:28 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: (unknown)   Never heard of Grouply. So, I looked. This from the snopes discussion board: There are a few new services coming online which are social "networking" sites similar to My Space and Facebook. One of these new services is called "Grouply". Grouply is tapping Yahoo lists and reposting the messages to Grouply members. As soon as ONE list member joins this service, all of our messages will then be archived by Grouply. Grouply changes your email address to (yourname)@grouply. com. for the purpose of your Yahoo list mail only. They will also go into your Yahoo account and change all of your preferences regarding how you view your mail, whether you get individual posts or digests, and whether you can be directly added to any of a million other Yahoo groups. In order to do this, Grouply requires that you give them your Yahoo ID and password. I am truly hoping that most of our members are smart enough not to hand over that information to ANYONE--especially to another web service! There is no guarantee that this information that Grouply is aggregating is secure, thus leaving your sign-in info available to spammers and hackers--including all of our list files and photos. At this point, there is no way for us to block Grouply's access to our list (although that is being worked on). Until there is, I will be checking daily for list members who may have innocently joined Grouply. I will be unsubbing and banning them, plus making direct contact with them explaining why we will not allow this in our membership. They will be welcome to rejoin once they unsub from Grouply. > > Careful, it appears Jim address book was compromised. > > This is a reason I stay away from Facebook, Twitter and all the other > networking sites. While they sound like fun, all they are is address > harvesters for spam. > > The worst, and I have mentioned it before, is Grouply. ANYONE on any of my > lists, if it's found out they've joined Grouply, is IMMEDIATELY dropped from > the list without warning/ (This IS the warning) > > Don > > Don Dellmann > don.dellmann@... > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ > http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction > Owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "James Bartelt" <scrimjimmy@...> > GROUPLY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15964	From: Gary Woodard	Date: 1/29/2011
Subject: Re: (unknown)

Hi George,   I would hope nobody is stupid enough to actually sign up for grouply, and snopes has no business grouping facebook and myspace in with grouply either, as they aren't anything like grouply!   Gary W     Click HERE http://www.eeinternational.org/pages/page.asp?page_id=31469 to answer life's two most important questions! From: George Frey <orangetrainman33@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, January 29, 2011 1:46:25 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: (unknown)   Grouply IS spam do not sign up!!!!   George E. Frey Sr Proud member of 1/87 yahoo Military Models group orangetrainman33@...   From: trainsnwrcs <idioticyahoo@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, January 29, 2011 10:08:28 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: (unknown)   Never heard of Grouply. So, I looked. This from the snopes discussion board: There are a few new services coming online which are social "networking" sites similar to My Space and Facebook. One of these new services is called "Grouply". Grouply is tapping Yahoo lists and reposting the messages to Grouply members. As soon as ONE list member joins this service, all of our messages will then be archived by Grouply. Grouply changes your email address to (yourname)@grouply. com. for the purpose of your Yahoo list mail only. They will also go into your Yahoo account and change all of your preferences regarding how you view your mail, whether you get individual posts or digests, and whether you can be directly added to any of a million other Yahoo groups. In order to do this, Grouply requires that you give them your Yahoo ID and password. I am truly hoping that most of our members are smart enough not to hand over that information to ANYONE--especially to another web service! There is no guarantee that this information that Grouply is aggregating is secure, thus leaving your sign-in info available to spammers and hackers--including all of our list files and photos. At this point, there is no way for us to block Grouply's access to our list (although that is being worked on). Until there is, I will be checking daily for list members who may have innocently joined Grouply. I will be unsubbing and banning them, plus making direct contact with them explaining why we will not allow this in our membership. They will be welcome to rejoin once they unsub from Grouply. > > Careful, it appears Jim address book was compromised. > > This is a reason I stay away from Facebook, Twitter and all the other > networking sites. While they sound like fun, all they are is address > harvesters for spam. > > The worst, and I have mentioned it before, is Grouply. ANYONE on any of my > lists, if it's found out they've joined Grouply, is IMMEDIATELY dropped from > the list without warning/ (This IS the warning) > > Don > > Don Dellmann > don.dellmann@... > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ > http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction > Owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "James Bartelt" <scrimjimmy@...> > GROUPLY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15965	From: nvrr49	Date: 1/30/2011
Subject: Re: JC Cardstock combine

I am bidding on it, but it is fair game. I really don't know what it is worth. Kent Hurley Kansas City nvrr49.blogspot.com --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > I see the JC Combine on eBay mentioned here last week has a bid. I was > going to bid as it got close to the end, but is it anyone here who bid? If > it is I don't want to step on any toes. > > Don > > Don Dellmann > don.dellmann@... > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ > http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction > Owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15966	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 1/30/2011
Subject: Re: JC Cardstock combine

How can you accurately date it? Be nice if the plans were dated--can't tell. Anyway, it's all yours, folks. Am tired of forming those roof ends even though they come out well with experience. Going to keep it as is for the collection and not build it?   Art W   In a message dated 1/30/2011 3:48:47 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, nvrr49@... writes: I am bidding on it, but it is fair game.  I really don't know what it is worth. Kent Hurley Kansas City nvrr49.blogspot.com --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > I see the JC Combine on eBay mentioned here last week has a bid.  I was > going to bid as it got close to the end,  but is it anyone here who bid?  If > it is I don't want to step on any toes. > > Don > > Don Dellmann > don.dellmann@... > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ > http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction > Owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery > ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings:     Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join     (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email:     vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com     vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:     vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15967	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/30/2011
Subject: Re: JC Cardstock combine

----- Original Message ----- From: "nvrr49" <nvrr49@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2011 2:48 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: JC Cardstock combine >I am bidding on it, but it is fair game. I really don't know what it is >worth. > > Kent Hurley > Kansas City > nvrr49.blogspot.com If you don't mind. I know what I can afford, may the best man win :-) Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15968	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 1/30/2011
Subject: Re: JC Cardstock combine

If I win it will be built. Don ----- Original Message ----- From: <luvprr@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2011 3:14 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: JC Cardstock combine > How can you accurately date it? Be nice if the plans were dated--can't > tell. Anyway, it's all yours, folks. Am tired of forming those roof ends > even > though they come out well with experience. Going to keep it as is for the > collection and not build it? > > Art W > > > In a message dated 1/30/2011 3:48:47 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > nvrr49@... writes: > > I am bidding on it, but it is fair game. I really don't know what it is > worth. > > Kent Hurley > Kansas City > nvrr49.blogspot.com > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> > wrote: >> >> I see the JC Combine on eBay mentioned here last week has a bid. I was >> going to bid as it got close to the end, but is it anyone here who bid? > If >> it is I don't want to step on any toes. >> >> Don >> >> Don Dellmann >> don.dellmann@... >> http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ >> http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction >> Owner >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery >> > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15969	From: RalphB	Date: 1/31/2011
Subject: Springfield train show

I went to the subject show on Saturday with a few of my model railroading friends. Normally you can expect to find one or two individuals selling older stuff, or some dealers with a few older kits mixed in with current kits and RTR, but there was a real bonanza at one set of tables this year. As I remember, the sign over the tables read "Collection of Fred Farrar," and when I looked it up on the Amherst web site it showed tables assigned to Carolyn Farrar (Wife? Daughter?). Anyway, items for sale dated back to the 1940s and possibly even the '30s. There were, among other things, diesels from Hobbytown of Boston and Lindsay, lots of Varney (including a partially-built Yellowstone), and Blue Line passenger cars. Many of the items were still in their original boxes. Prices, at least for the majority of items, were pretty reasonable. Ralph B

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15970	From: erieberk	Date: 1/31/2011
Subject: Re: JC Cardstock combine

As the Seller wrote a few inaccuracies about the dates these JC Models kits were made, it leads me to wonder if he's correct in stating it's a scale 72' 6" long -- only as JC never had standard passenger car combines longer than 70' after they converted to having embossed metal sides. There's still the possibility that this cardstock side kit is as long as he states, but from all appearances -- including the window configurations of both the baggage door and the passenger compartent, it matches up identically with their later(metal side) HO 11 New York Central Baggage Coach, which is actually shorter than his estimate for this cardstock-sided model. The brief history that JC MOdels includes in their catalog pages states that -- "JC Models has been building passenger and head end cars exclusively since 1939." (not 1938, as the Seller indicates). Additionally, Ma Webster's (Model R.R. Equipment Corp.) 1950 catalog lists the firm's offerings that year of JC Models as having -- "Stamped aluminum sides, die cast ends, die cast parts." The JC Models NYC Combine is listed as 68' long. Since JC models was already producing their stamped aluminum "Silversides" by 1950, it makes me wonder when their first year of producing kits with Silversides was. Perhaps they were introduced immediately post-War, with the cardstock sides only being produced pre-War, but I have no earlier info on their early material. Ads in MR or RMC may offer some insight though. BTW, while their kits were designed for specific prototype railroads (primarily NYC, N&W and PRR, and including Pullman), they state a number of their cars (by kit number) may be used for other roads not otherwise indicated, such as D&RGW, B&O, CNJ, RDG, NH and the Freedom Train (1947-49). I prefer the aluminum-sides Silversides kits, so I won't be bidding on this auction, but the item is definitely "vintage" and a nice find. Ray F.W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > I see the JC Combine on eBay mentioned here last week has a bid. I was > going to bid as it got close to the end, but is it anyone here who bid? If > it is I don't want to step on any toes. > > Don > > Don Dellmann > don.dellmann@... > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ > http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction > Owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15971	From: RalphB	Date: 1/31/2011
Subject: Varney Aerotrain

While I'm not into the real vintage (pre-1950) HO, I do like a lot of the early plastic and some zamac that was just coming on the market. One item I've had my eyes on lately has been the Varney model of the GM Aerotrain. By watching eBay lately I could see that some people were willing to pay big bucks to get their hands on this train. In my posting about the Springfield (MA) train show, I mentioned the sale of the "Collection of Fred Farrar." In there I found an original 3-part kit (dummy loco, coach, and obs), still in the original box with the assembly instructions, for just $10. Didn't take long for that to make its way into my bag of goodies. I have a question, though. The kit includes drawbars to be used between units, but there's no way to use one between the coach and the obs. The instructions show the a drawbar pinned to the end of the unit with a plastic "rivet", but the coach only has one end. I can connect the units using the "diaphram" that's included, but that's a rigid piece of plastic. Am I missing an end piece? Or was this kit meant to be assembled and displayed only on a straight piece of track? Ralph B

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15972	From: nvrr49	Date: 1/31/2011
Subject: Re: JC Cardstock combine

"If I win it will be built." Don Me Too Kent

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15973	From: bitlerisvj@hotmail.com	Date: 1/31/2011
Subject: Ambroid 8 Hatch Reefer

Hi folks, A couple of friends and I went to a train show in Wilmington (NC) this past weekend and I picked up a couple of goodies, DIRT CHEAP. Cars for 3 and 4 dollars a piece. A couple of cars had either Kadee or Central Valley trucks, so they paid for themselves right there. But the cars are keepers, so with a bit of clean up, they are already on the tracks. One car I picked up for 3 dollars was an already assembled Ambroid 8 hatch CP reefer. The paint was really pretty decent as was the construction, so this one is not going into the dunk tank. Besides it could be a problem getting decals and they are in decent shape. I just need to put on some decal solvent and get em to snuggle down a bit better. There are a few roof ribs missing as well as some underframe cross members. The underframe will be a piece of cake to fix. I will also add on all the brake piping, since the underframe will be repainted. The roof ribs are easily fabricated from .020 styrene. In fact, I am almost done. The reason the ribs got lost is the person that assembled this actually used Ambroid cement, so the rest of the ribs pretty much fell off with very little prodding. I will rebuild and repaint the roof also. Now I come to my question for anyone that knows. The builder painted the reefer side doors and tracks silver. I know the roof is supposed to be silver, because I have an unbuilt kit, but for some reason, I expected the door to be the car side color, boxcar red. If the door is prototypically correct, I will leave it, otherwise if someone can tell me what it should be, I will be happy to repaint. Thanks and regards, Vic Bitleris

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15974	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 1/31/2011
Subject: Re: Ambroid 8 Hatch Reefer

The roof ribs fell off? Tsk, tsk, tsk! The builder did not properly clean and prep the surfaces to be glued, did he, or this would just not happen. On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 1:22 PM, <bitlerisvj@...> wrote:   Hi folks, A couple of friends and I went to a train show in Wilmington (NC) this past weekend and I picked up a couple of goodies, DIRT CHEAP. Cars for 3 and 4 dollars a piece. A couple of cars had either Kadee or Central Valley trucks, so they paid for themselves right there. But the cars are keepers, so with a bit of clean up, they are already on the tracks. One car I picked up for 3 dollars was an already assembled Ambroid 8 hatch CP reefer. The paint was really pretty decent as was the construction, so this one is not going into the dunk tank. Besides it could be a problem getting decals and they are in decent shape. I just need to put on some decal solvent and get em to snuggle down a bit better. There are a few roof ribs missing as well as some underframe cross members. The underframe will be a piece of cake to fix. I will also add on all the brake piping, since the underframe will be repainted. The roof ribs are easily fabricated from .020 styrene. In fact, I am almost done. The reason the ribs got lost is the person that assembled this actually used Ambroid cement, so the rest of the ribs pretty much fell off with very little prodding. I will rebuild and repaint the roof also. Now I come to my question for anyone that knows. The builder painted the reefer side doors and tracks silver. I know the roof is supposed to be silver, because I have an unbuilt kit, but for some reason, I expected the door to be the car side color, boxcar red. If the door is prototypically correct, I will leave it, otherwise if someone can tell me what it should be, I will be happy to repaint. Thanks and regards, Vic Bitleris -- Regards, Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15975	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 1/31/2011
Subject: Re: Ambroid 8 Hatch Reefer

That is certainly possible.  He probably should have let them sit in vinegar for a while after cleaning.  The rest of the car seems sound, but truthfully, I have never been impressed with the use of Ambroid cement on anything but balsa wood.  For sure, I never felt like it would adhere metal to wood very well.  In fact, it didn't take much from the X-acto knife to pop up the glue from the wooden roof base. Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: bayerw2@... Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 13:32:36 -0400 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Ambroid 8 Hatch Reefer   The roof ribs fell off? Tsk, tsk, tsk! The builder did not properly clean and prep the surfaces to be glued, did he, or this would just not happen. On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 1:22 PM, <bitlerisvj@...> wrote:   Hi folks, A couple of friends and I went to a train show in Wilmington (NC) this past weekend and I picked up a couple of goodies, DIRT CHEAP. Cars for 3 and 4 dollars a piece. A couple of cars had either Kadee or Central Valley trucks, so they paid for themselves right there. But the cars are keepers, so with a bit of clean up, they are already on the tracks. One car I picked up for 3 dollars was an already assembled Ambroid 8 hatch CP reefer. The paint was really pretty decent as was the construction, so this one is not going into the dunk tank. Besides it could be a problem getting decals and they are in decent shape. I just need to put on some decal solvent and get em to snuggle down a bit better. There are a few roof ribs missing as well as some underframe cross members. The underframe will be a piece of cake to fix. I will also add on all the brake piping, since the underframe will be repainted. The roof ribs are easily fabricated from .020 styrene. In fact, I am almost done. The reason the ribs got lost is the person that assembled this actually used Ambroid cement, so the rest of the ribs pretty much fell off with very little prodding. I will rebuild and repaint the roof also. Now I come to my question for anyone that knows. The builder painted the reefer side doors and tracks silver. I know the roof is supposed to be silver, because I have an unbuilt kit, but for some reason, I expected the door to be the car side color, boxcar red. If the door is prototypically correct, I will leave it, otherwise if someone can tell me what it should be, I will be happy to repaint. Thanks and regards, Vic Bitleris -- Regards, Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15976	From: tomml57	Date: 1/31/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Aerotrain

Hi Ralph, does the observation car have 2 ends, I would think the observation would have one end if it meant to be at the back of the train, or is it like a vistadome and that maybe it would go in the middle. My other theory is, is it possible that the underframes of the observation and coach got switched? Tom --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "RalphB" <Alpvalsys@...> wrote: > > While I'm not into the real vintage (pre-1950) HO, I do like a lot of the early plastic and some zamac that was just coming on the market. One item I've had my eyes on lately has been the Varney model of the GM Aerotrain. By watching eBay lately I could see that some people were willing to pay big bucks to get their hands on this train. > > In my posting about the Springfield (MA) train show, I mentioned the sale of the "Collection of Fred Farrar." In there I found an original 3-part kit (dummy loco, coach, and obs), still in the original box with the assembly instructions, for just $10. Didn't take long for that to make its way into my bag of goodies. > > I have a question, though. The kit includes drawbars to be used between units, but there's no way to use one between the coach and the obs. The instructions show the a drawbar pinned to the end of the unit with a plastic "rivet", but the coach only has one end. I can connect the units using the "diaphram" that's included, but that's a rigid piece of plastic. Am I missing an end piece? Or was this kit meant to be assembled and displayed only on a straight piece of track? > > Ralph B >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15977	From: estabrook@aol.com	Date: 1/31/2011
Subject: Re: Ambroid 8 Hatch Reefer

Vic - I have one of these too - the roof is silver, the doors are BCR.  However, I was planning to repaint the roof BCR also, after looking through my Canadian National Color Guide - It doesn't show this exact car, but other wood cars of the same era were all BCR, including the doors. Reed -----Original Message----- From: bitlerisvj <bitlerisvj@...> To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Mon, Jan 31, 2011 12:22 pm Subject: [vintageHO] Ambroid 8 Hatch Reefer   Hi folks, A couple of friends and I went to a train show in Wilmington (NC) this past weekend and I picked up a couple of goodies, DIRT CHEAP. Cars for 3 and 4 dollars a piece. A couple of cars had either Kadee or Central Valley trucks, so they paid for themselves right there. But the cars are keepers, so with a bit of clean up, they are already on the tracks. One car I picked up for 3 dollars was an already assembled Ambroid 8 hatch CP reefer. The paint was really pretty decent as was the construction, so this one is not going into the dunk tank. Besides it could be a problem getting decals and they are in decent shape. I just need to put on some decal solvent and get em to snuggle down a bit better. There are a few roof ribs missing as well as some underframe cross members. The underframe will be a piece of cake to fix. I will also add on all the brake piping, since the underframe will be repainted. The roof ribs are easily fabricated from .020 styrene. In fact, I am almost done. The reason the ribs got lost is the person that assembled this actually used Ambroid cement, so the rest of the ribs pretty much fell off with very little prodding. I will rebuild and repaint the roof also. Now I come to my question for anyone that knows. The builder painted the reefer side doors and tracks silver. I know the roof is suppose d to be silver, because I have an unbuilt kit, but for some reason, I expected the door to be the car side color, boxcar red. If the door is prototypically correct, I will leave it, otherwise if someone can tell me what it should be, I will be happy to repaint. Thanks and regards, Vic Bitleris

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15978	From: RalphB	Date: 2/1/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Aerotrain

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Tom wrote: > > ...does the observation car have 2 ends Yes. The front end of the car is cast integral with the body while the fancy rear end is a separate casting. In fact, both carbodies are identical; what sets the obs apart is that add-on rear end. Looking at photos of the prototype on the Bowser web site (http://www.bowser-trains.com/hoemrrs/aerotrain/aerotrain.htm), you can see this. > ...is it possible that the underframes of the observation and coach got switched? There are no underframes for the cars. They only have what is called a "wheel holder" into which you snap the wheel & axle; one of these is then glued into the body at each end. Ralph B

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15979	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 2/1/2011
Subject: Re: Ambroid 8 Hatch Reefer

Thanks very much for this.  I do know that some reefers of this era did use silver paint in certain areas, because of the special insulation qualities.  But, I suspect that when re-paint time came around, it was easier to use all one color, especially as cars aged.  I could not find any photos of these cars on the web, do you know where some are? Thanks and regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com CC: estabrook@... From: estabrook@... Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 20:29:42 -0500 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Ambroid 8 Hatch Reefer   Vic - I have one of these too - the roof is silver, the doors are BCR.  However, I was planning to repaint the roof BCR also, after looking through my Canadian National Color Guide - It doesn't show this exact car, but other wood cars of the same era were all BCR, including the doors. Reed -----Original Message----- From: bitlerisvj <bitlerisvj@...> To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Mon, Jan 31, 2011 12:22 pm Subject: [vintageHO] Ambroid 8 Hatch Reefer   Hi folks, A couple of friends and I went to a train show in Wilmington (NC) this past weekend and I picked up a couple of goodies, DIRT CHEAP. Cars for 3 and 4 dollars a piece. A couple of cars had either Kadee or Central Valley trucks, so they paid for themselves right there. But the cars are keepers, so with a bit of clean up, they are already on the tracks. One car I picked up for 3 dollars was an already assembled Ambroid 8 hatch CP reefer. The paint was really pretty decent as was the construction, so this one is not going into the dunk tank. Besides it could be a problem getting decals and they are in decent shape. I just need to put on some decal solvent and get em to snuggle down a bit better. There are a few roof ribs missing as well as some underframe cross members. The underframe will be a piece of cake to fix. I will also add on all the brake piping, since the underframe will be repainted. The roof ribs are easily fabricated from .020 styrene. In fact, I am almost done. The reason the ribs got lost is the person that assembled this actually used Ambroid cement, so the rest of the ribs pretty much fell off with very little prodding. I will rebuild and repaint the roof also. Now I come to my question for anyone that knows. The builder painted the reefer side doors and tracks silver. I know the roof is suppose d to be silver, because I have an unbuilt kit, but for some reason, I expected the door to be the car side color, boxcar red. If the door is prototypically correct, I will leave it, otherwise if someone can tell me what it should be, I will be happy to repaint. Thanks and regards, Vic Bitleris

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15980	From: dennyanspach	Date: 2/1/2011
Subject: Re: JC Cardstock combine

Good!  Well worth the effort.  The Bristol board paper cardstock used for these sides was a very dense with a very high -perhaps pure- rag content. The embossed rivets were very sharp and much better rendered than J-C was able to do with the succeeding  embossed aluminum sides. The trick is to fill the paper without obscuring the riveting. Applying the overlays to the wood ends can be a bit cautionary, but again the result *can* be markedly-superior to J-C's succeeding quite-crude  cast lead alloy ends.  I have several of these early passenger cars en train on the layout -as we speak-, and they can hold up quite well in the company of later, or even contemporary models of far greater pretence.   Denny S.  Anspach MD Sacramento On Jan 31, 2011, at 5:16 AM, vintageHO@yahoogroups.com wrote:  "Don Dellmann" don.dellmann@...   don_dellmann Sun Jan 30, 2011 4:11 pm (PST) If I win it will be built.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15981	From: JAMES GITTS	Date: 2/1/2011
Subject: JC passenger cars found for sale at the springfield show still avail

Hello, I just returned from west springfield and know a dealer set up there had several N.I.B. JC models passenger cars for sale , i believe they are the metal side kits. My friend had bought N.I.B Ulrich tractor trailer kits mint for a very reasonable price , so i think these too would be priced the same. I have no interest in them but would be glad to pass on the information about them. I don't want to post the shops name without their permission....James Gitts ple38ATcomcastDOTnet

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15982	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 2/1/2011
Subject: Avoid this listing! Pleaseee!

Hi Guys, I do not like to do this, but it has to be done! I recently purchased a listing of engines and they came heavily damaged. They were each wrapped into a single clear plastic bag and then thrown into a large flat rate box with only a few other empty plastic bags as protection. Needless to say, everything arrived damaged and in pieces.. Not only was the seller aggressive and rude.. I returned it.. This is the very first time I have ever returned anything. I was so disappointed. I have just discovered he has re-listed it and has made NO mention of the damage. or even updated the photos. http://cgi.ebay.com/HO-Scale-Trains-Parts-and-Miscellaneous-/130481827193?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item1e6152ad79 Here are how these engines actually look: http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/sets/72157625726596023/ Unbelievable! Sean   1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15983	From: Donald R. Staton	Date: 2/1/2011
Subject: Re: Avoid this listing! Pleaseee!

Thanks for the warning.  Some sellers never learn that safe delivery is part of the sale.  Packing is the next most important thing next to the item itself.  Happy railroading... Don Staton in VA. ============================================================================================ On 2/1/2011 2:14 PM, Sean Naylor wrote:   Hi Guys, I do not like to do this, but it has to be done! I recently purchased a listing of engines and they came heavily damaged. They were each wrapped into a single clear plastic bag and then thrown into a large flat rate box with only a few other empty plastic bags as protection. Needless to say, everything arrived damaged and in pieces.. Not only was the seller aggressive and rude.. I returned it.. This is the very first time I have ever returned anything. I was so disappointed. I have just discovered he has re-listed it and has made NO mention of the damage. or even updated the photos. http://cgi.ebay.com/HO-Scale-Trains-Parts-and-Miscellaneous-/130481827193?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item1e6152ad79 Here are how these engines actually look: http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/sets/72157625726596023/ Unbelievable! Sean   1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15984	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 2/1/2011
Subject: Re: Avoid this listing! Pleaseee!

Well, not to defend the guy exactly, but he obviously thought of them personally as basically junk (maybe he's a youngster with little sense of history  as of yet ) and shipped them with that in mind. At the other end of the spectrum I've gotten stuff that was almost worthless and was packed like it was virtually priceless. Packing was probably worth more than the item. Hard to strike a balance at times, but there's not excuse for being rude about it as Sean says he was.    In a message dated 2/1/2011 2:27:11 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, chpln1@... writes: Thanks for the warning.  Some sellers never learn that safe delivery is part of the sale.  Packing is the next most important thing next to the item itself.  Happy railroading... Don Staton in VA. ============================================================================================ On 2/1/2011 2:14 PM, Sean Naylor wrote:   Hi Guys, I do not like to do this, but it has to be done! I recently purchased a listing of engines and they came heavily damaged. They were each wrapped into a single clear plastic bag and then thrown into a large flat rate box with only a few other empty plastic bags as protection. Needless to say, everything arrived damaged and in pieces.. Not only was the seller aggressive and rude.. I returned it.. This is the very first time I have ever returned anything. I was so disappointed. I have just discovered he has re-listed it and has made NO mention of the damage. or even updated the photos. http://cgi.ebay.com/HO-Scale-Trains-Parts-and-Miscellaneous-/130481827193?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item1e6152ad79 Here are how these engines actually look: http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/sets/72157625726596023/ Unbelievable! Sean   1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15985	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 2/1/2011
Subject: Re: Avoid this listing! Pleaseee!

Accidents happen, especially during shipping  that is not the problem I have here.   The real problem here is that he has relisted them giving no information as to their current condition and has not updated the pictures.  Many of the details you see in the listing pictures are knocked off and one tender (made of cardboard) was actually crushed. With shipping I paid over $200 for the lot. I hate to se anyone go through that.    As many know, I sell. As a seller, I find that to be very dishonest and shady.  Sean Sent from my iPhone On Feb 1, 2011, at 2:43 PM, luvprr@... wrote:   Well, not to defend the guy exactly, but he obviously thought of them personally as basically junk (maybe he's a youngster with little sense of history  as of yet ) and shipped them with that in mind. At the other end of the spectrum I've gotten stuff that was almost worthless and was packed like it was virtually priceless. Packing was probably worth more than the item. Hard to strike a balance at times, but there's not excuse for being rude about it as Sean says he was.    In a message dated 2/1/2011 2:27:11 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, chpln1@... writes: Thanks for the warning.  Some sellers never learn that safe delivery is part of the sale.  Packing is the next most important thing next to the item itself.  Happy railroading... Don Staton in VA. ============================================================================================ On 2/1/2011 2:14 PM, Sean Naylor wrote:   Hi Guys, I do not like to do this, but it has to be done! I recently purchased a listing of engines and they came heavily damaged. They were each wrapped into a single clear plastic bag and then thrown into a large flat rate box with only a few other empty plastic bags as protection. Needless to say, everything arrived damaged and in pieces.. Not only was the seller aggressive and rude.. I returned it.. This is the very first time I have ever returned anything. I was so disappointed. I have just discovered he has re-listed it and has made NO mention of the damage. or even updated the photos. http://cgi.ebay.com/HO-Scale-Trains-Parts-and-Miscellaneous-/130481827193?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item1e6152ad79 Here are how these engines actually look: http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/sets/72157625726596023/ Unbelievable! Sean   1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15986	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 2/1/2011
Subject: Re: Avoid this listing! Pleaseee!

Ouch! For 200 bucks I would have expected better packing myself--even if the stuff was totally worthless.   Art W   In a message dated 2/1/2011 3:07:38 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, a69mustang4me@... writes: Accidents happen, especially during shipping  that is not the problem I have here.   The real problem here is that he has relisted them giving no information as to their current condition and has not updated the pictures.  Many of the details you see in the listing pictures are knocked off and one tender (made of cardboard) was actually crushed. With shipping I paid over $200 for the lot. I hate to se anyone go through that.    As many know, I sell. As a seller, I find that to be very dishonest and shady.  Sean Sent from my iPhone On Feb 1, 2011, at 2:43 PM, luvprr@... wrote:   Well, not to defend the guy exactly, but he obviously thought of them personally as basically junk (maybe he's a youngster with little sense of history  as of yet ) and shipped them with that in mind. At the other end of the spectrum I've gotten stuff that was almost worthless and was packed like it was virtually priceless. Packing was probably worth more than the item. Hard to strike a balance at times, but there's not excuse for being rude about it as Sean says he was.    In a message dated 2/1/2011 2:27:11 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, chpln1@... writes: Thanks for the warning.  Some sellers never learn that safe delivery is part of the sale.  Packing is the next most important thing next to the item itself.  Happy railroading... Don Staton in VA. ============================================================================================ On 2/1/2011 2:14 PM, Sean Naylor wrote:   Hi Guys, I do not like to do this, but it has to be done! I recently purchased a listing of engines and they came heavily damaged. They were each wrapped into a single clear plastic bag and then thrown into a large flat rate box with only a few other empty plastic bags as protection. Needless to say, everything arrived damaged and in pieces.. Not only was the seller aggressive and rude.. I returned it.. This is the very first time I have ever returned anything. I was so disappointed. I have just discovered he has re-listed it and has made NO mention of the damage. or even updated the photos. http://cgi.ebay.com/HO-Scale-Trains-Parts-and-Miscellaneous-/130481827193?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item1e6152ad79 Here are how these engines actually look: http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/sets/72157625726596023/ Unbelievable! Sean   1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15987	From: jodanjackkayla@yahoo.com	Date: 2/1/2011
Subject: Re: Avoid this listing! Pleaseee!

Yeah. I got the other lot, packed the same way. They were damaged but salvagable. The guy was an idiot. Sean is right. Stay away. Sent via DROID on Verizon Wireless -----Original message----- From: Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> To: yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com, vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, Feb 1, 2011 20:20:59 GMT+00:00 Subject: [vintageHO] Avoid this listing! Pleaseee!   Hi Guys, I do not like to do this, but it has to be done! I recently purchased a listing of engines and they came heavily damaged. They were each wrapped into a single clear plastic bag and then thrown into a large flat rate box with only a few other empty plastic bags as protection. Needless to say, everything arrived damaged and in pieces.. Not only was the seller aggressive and rude.. I returned it.. This is the very first time I have ever returned anything. I was so disappointed. I have just discovered he has re-listed it and has made NO mention of the damage. or even updated the photos. http://cgi.ebay.com/HO-Scale-Trains-Parts-and-Miscellaneous-/130481827193?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item1e6152ad79 Here are how these engines actually look: http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/sets/72157625726596023/ Unbelievable! Sean   1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15988	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 2/1/2011
Subject: Re: Avoid this listing! Pleaseee!

Just thought I'd check in with the seller of the items in question and his packaging. Was interested in his comments. Here they are:   The items are individually package, bubblewrapped and will be secured insided a rigid USPS box. I really dont know what else people want, As far the previous buyer, he asked for a discount, I told him if he wasn't happy return the item for a full refund. It took him forever and a day to return it because all he really wanted was to try and rip me off. I guarantee you wont be disappointed with the shipping and handling and if you are, a 100% refund is in order, I will even pay the return shipping.   BEST~ RS   - lildrmmr   item in better than described condition-packed well&shipped quickly-Thanks-AA++   My last feedback of an train item,... Sound kinda weird that this guy loved the shipping and packaging but the other guy had a problem, ??? A little strange?   Well, there you are, folks. Thought you all might be interested.   Art W               In a message dated 2/1/2011 6:48:52 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, jodanjackkayla@... writes: Yeah. I got the other lot, packed the same way. They were damaged but salvagable. The guy was an idiot. Sean is right. Stay away. Sent via DROID on Verizon Wireless -----Original message----- From: Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> To: yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com, vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, Feb 1, 2011 20:20:59 GMT+00:00 Subject: [vintageHO] Avoid this listing! Pleaseee!   Hi Guys, I do not like to do this, but it has to be done! I recently purchased a listing of engines and they came heavily damaged. They were each wrapped into a single clear plastic bag and then thrown into a large flat rate box with only a few other empty plastic bags as protection. Needless to say, everything arrived damaged and in pieces.. Not only was the seller aggressive and rude.. I returned it.. This is the very first time I have ever returned anything. I was so disappointed. I have just discovered he has re-listed it and has made NO mention of the damage. or even updated the photos. http://cgi.ebay.com/HO-Scale-Trains-Parts -and-Miscellaneous-/130481827193?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item1e6152ad79 Here are how these engines actually look: http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/sets/72157625726596023/ Unbelievable! Sean   1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15989	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 2/1/2011
Subject: Re: Avoid this listing! Pleaseee!

A good rule of thumb is that there are three sides to every story. Your side, my side, and somewhere in the middle is the truth. What better way to refuse an accepted bid? What better way to get rid of mangled junk? It seems over the years I have certainly heard a lot of "poor me" commentary. Makes one wonder....aloud, even. Just add the comments from the seller to those of the buyer, and you might get some idea of what really happened. > Just thought I'd check in with the seller of the items in question and his > packaging. Was interested in his comments. Here they are: > > The items are individually package, bubblewrapped and will be secured > insided a rigid USPS box. I really dont know what else people want, As far the > previous buyer, he asked for a discount, I told him if he wasn't happy > return the item for a full refund. It took him forever and a day to return it > because all he really wanted was to try and rip me off. I guarantee you wont > be disappointed with the shipping and handling and if you are, a 100% > refund is in order, I will even pay the return shipping. > > BEST~ > RS > > > - lildrmmr > > > item in better than described condition-packed well&shipped > quickly-Thanks-AA++ > > My last feedback of an train item,... Sound kinda weird that this guy loved > the shipping and packaging but the other guy had a problem, ??? A little > strange? > > Well, there you are, folks. Thought you all might be interested. > > Art W > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 2/1/2011 6:48:52 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > jodanjackkayla@... writes: > > > > Yeah. I got the other lot, packed the same way. They were damaged but > salvagable. The guy was an idiot. Sean is right. Stay away. > > Sent via DROID on Verizon Wireless > > > -----Original message----- > > From: Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> > To: yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com, vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tue, Feb 1, 2011 20:20:59 GMT+00:00 > Subject: [vintageHO] Avoid this listing! Pleaseee! > > > > > > Hi Guys, > > I do not like to do this, but it has to be done! > > I recently purchased a listing of engines and they came heavily damaged. > They were each wrapped into a single clear plastic bag and then thrown into > a large flat rate box with only a few other empty plastic bags as > protection. Needless to say, everything arrived damaged and in pieces.. Not only was > the seller aggressive and rude.. > > I returned it.. This is the very first time I have ever returned anything. > I was so disappointed. > > I have just discovered he has re-listed it and has made NO mention of the > damage. or even updated the photos. > > _http://cgi.ebay.com/HO-Scale-Trains-Parts > -and-Miscellaneous-/130481827193?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item1e6152ad79_ > (http://cgi.ebay.com/HO-Scale-Trains-Parts-and-Miscellaneous-/130481827193?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item1e6152ad > 79) > > Here are how these engines actually look: > > _http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/sets/72157625726596023/_ > (http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/sets/72157625726596023/) > > Unbelievable! > > Sean > > > > 1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15990	From: jodanjackkayla@yahoo.com	Date: 2/1/2011
Subject: Re: Avoid this listing! Pleaseee!

Well Art. All I can say is maybe he learned his lesson from Sean on how to pack. The engines I got from him were put in ziploc bags with no padding. They were able to move around the box and get damaged. So I don't believe the truth is anywhere near the middle on this one. Sent via DROI,D on Verizon Wireless -----Original message----- From: trainsnwrcs <idioticyahoo@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, Feb 2, 2011 01:08:23 GMT+00:00 Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Avoid this listing! Pleaseee!   A good rule of thumb is that there are three sides to every story. Your side, my side, and somewhere in the middle is the truth. What better way to refuse an accepted bid? What better way to get rid of mangled junk? It seems over the years I have certainly heard a lot of "poor me" commentary. Makes one wonder....aloud, even. Just add the comments from the seller to those of the buyer, and you might get some idea of what really happened. > Just thought I'd check in with the seller of the items in question and his > packaging. Was interested in his comments. Here they are: > > The items are individually package, bubblewrapped and will be secured > insided a rigid USPS box. I really dont know what else people want, As far the > previous buyer, he asked for a discount, I told him if he wasn't happy > return the item for a full refund. It took him forever and a day to return it > because all he really wanted was to try and rip me off. I guarantee you wont > be disappointed with the shipping and handling and if you are, a 100% > refund is in order, I will even pay the return shipping. > > BEST~ > RS > > > - lildrmmr > > > item in better than described condition-packed well&shipped > quickly-Thanks-AA++ > > My last feedback of an train item,... Sound kinda weird that this guy loved > the shipping and packaging but the other guy had a problem, ??? A little > strange? > > Well, there you are, folks. Thought you all might be interested. > > Art W > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 2/1/2011 6:48:52 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > jodanjackkayla@... writes: > > > > Yeah. I got the other lot, packed the same way. They were damaged but > salvagable. The guy was an idiot. Sean is right. Stay away. > > Sent via DROID on Verizon Wireless > > > -----Original message----- > > From: Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> > To: yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com, vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tue, Feb 1, 2011 20:20:59 GMT+00:00 > Subject: [vintageHO] Avoid this listing! Pleaseee! > > > > > > Hi Guys, > > I do not like to do this, but it has to be done! > > I recently purchased a listing of engines and they came heavily damaged. > They were each wrapped into a single clear plastic bag and then thrown into > a large flat rate box with only a few other empty plastic bags as > protection. Needless to say, everything arrived damaged and in pieces.. Not only was > the seller aggressive and rude.. > > I returned it.. This is the very first time I have ever returned anything. > I was so disappointed. > > I have just discovered he has re-listed it and has made NO mention of the > damage. or even updated the photos. > > _http://cgi.ebay.com/HO-Scale-Trains-Parts > -and-Miscellaneous-/130481827193?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item1e6152ad79_ > (http://cgi.ebay.com/HO-Scale-Trains-Parts-and-Miscellaneous-/130481827193?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item1e6152ad > 79) > > Here are how these engines actually look: > > _http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/sets/72157625726596023/_ > (http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/sets/72157625726596023/) > > Unbelievable! > > Sean > > > > 1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15991	From: estabrook@aol.com	Date: 2/1/2011
Subject: Re: Ambroid 8 Hatch Reefer

Vic - I have looked in every source I have, but no luck.  I found plenty of CN steel 8-hatch reefers, most painted entirely gray or aluminum, and one picture of a very worn gray one with the BCR (including roof and door) showing thru. Reed -----Original Message----- From: Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> To: vintageho <vintageho@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tue, Feb 1, 2011 9:26 am Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Ambroid 8 Hatch Reefer   Thanks very much for this.  I do know that some reefers of this era did use silver paint in certain areas, because of the special insulation qualities.  But, I suspect that when re-paint time came around, it was easier to use all one color, especially as cars aged.  I could not find any photos of these cars on the web, do you know where some are? Thanks and regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com CC: estabrook@... From: estabrook@... Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 20:29:42 -0500 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Ambroid 8 Hatch Reefer   Vic - I have one of these too - the roof is silver, the doors are BCR.  However, I was planning to repaint the roof BCR also, after looking through my Canadian National Color Guide - It doesn't show this exact car, but other wood cars of the same era were all BCR, including the doors. Reed -----Original Message----- From: bitlerisvj <bitlerisvj@...> To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Mon, Jan 31, 2011 12:22 pm Subject: [vintageHO] Ambroid 8 Hatch Reefer   Hi folks, A couple of friends and I went to a train show in Wilmington (NC) this past weekend and I picked up a couple of goodies, DIRT CHEAP. Cars for 3 and 4 dollars a piece. A couple of cars had either Kadee or Central Valley trucks, so they paid for themselves right there. But the cars are keepers, so with a bit of clean up, they are already on the tracks. One car I picked up for 3 dollars was an already assembled Ambroid 8 hatch CP reefer. The paint was really pretty decent as was the construction, so this one is not going into the dunk tank. Besides it could be a problem getting decals and they are in decent shape. I just need to put on some decal solvent and get em to snuggle down a bit better. There are a few roof ribs missing as well as some underframe cross members. The underframe will be a piece of cake to fix. I will also add on all the brake piping, since the underframe will be repainted. The roof ribs are easily fabricated from .020 styrene. In fact, I am almost done. The reason the ribs got lost is the person that assembled this actually used Ambroid cement, so the rest of the ribs pretty much fell off with very little prodding. I will rebuild and repaint the roof also. Now I come to my question for anyone that knows. The builder painted the reefer side doors and tracks silver. I know the roof is suppose d to be silver, because I have an unbuilt kit, but for some reason, I expected the door to be the car side color, boxcar red. If the door is prototypically correct, I will leave it, otherwise if someone can tell me what it should be, I will be happy to repaint. Thanks and regards, Vic Bitleris

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15992	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 2/1/2011
Subject: Re: Avoid this listing! Pleaseee!

Sounds good to me. In any case I didn't write the "3 sides reply" though I think that does apply in a lot of cases out there. . .   In a message dated 2/1/2011 8:28:32 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, jodanjackkayla@... writes: Well Art. All I can say is maybe he learned his lesson from Sean on how to pack. The engines I got from him were put in ziploc bags with no padding. They were able to move around the box and get damaged. So I don't believe the truth is anywhere near the middle on this one. Sent via DROI,D on Verizon Wireless -----Original message----- From: trainsnwrcs <idioticyahoo@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, Feb 2, 2011 01:08:23 GMT+00:00 Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Avoid this listing! Pleaseee!   A good rule of thumb is that there are three sides to every story. Your side, my side, and somewhere in the middle is the truth. What better way to refuse an accepted bid? What better way to get rid of mangled junk? It seems over the years I have certainly heard a lot of "poor me" commentary. Makes one wonder....aloud, even. Just add the comments from the seller to those of the buyer, and you might get some idea of what really happened. > Just thought I'd check in with the seller of the items in question and his > packaging. Was interested in his comments. Here they are: > > The items are individually package, bubblewrapped and will be secured > insided a rigid USPS box. I really dont know what else people want, As far the > previous buyer, he asked for a discount, I told him if he wasn't happy > return the item for a full refund. It took him forever and a day to return it > because all he really wanted was to try and rip me off. I guarantee you wont > be disappointed with the shipping and handling and if you are, a 100% > refund is in order, I will even pay the return shipping. > > BEST~ > RS > > > - lildrmmr > > > item in better than described condition-packed well&shipped > quickly-Thanks-AA++ > > My last feedback of an train item,... Sound kinda weird that this guy loved > the shipping and packaging but the other guy had a problem, ??? A little > strange? > > Well, there you are, folks. Thought you all might be interested. > > Art W > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 2/1/2011 6:48:52 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > jodanjackkayla@... writes: > > > > Yeah. I got the other lot, packed the same way. They were damaged but > salvagable. The guy was an idiot. Sean is right. Stay away. > > Sent via DROID on Verizon Wireless > > > -----Original message----- > > From: Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> > To: yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com, vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tue, Feb 1, 2011 20:20:59 GMT+00:00 > Subject: [vintageHO] Avoid this listing! Pleaseee! > > > > > > Hi Guys, > > I do not like to do this, but it has to be done! > > I recently purchased a listing of engines and they came heavily damaged. > They were each wrapped into a single clear plastic bag and then thrown into > a large flat rate box with only a few other empty plastic bags as > protection. Needless to say, everything arrived damaged and in pieces.. Not only was > the seller aggressive and rude.. > > I returned it.. This is the very first time I have ever returned anything. > I was so disappointed. > > I have just discovered he has re-listed it and has made NO mention of the > damage. or even updated the photos. > > _http://cgi.ebay.com/HO-Scale-Trains-Parts > -and-Miscellaneous-/130481827193?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item1e6152ad79_ > (http://cgi.ebay.com/HO-Scale-Trains-Parts-and-Miscellaneous-/130481827193?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item1e6152ad > 79) > > Here are how these engines actually look: > > _http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/sets/72157625726596023/_ > (http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/sets/72157625726596023/) > > Unbelievable! > > Sean > > > > 1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15993	From: Donald R. Staton	Date: 2/1/2011
Subject: Re: Avoid this listing! Pleaseee!

Take Sean's warning for what it is...  An effort to protect the rest of us.  I have had lots of problems with poorly packaged items and have had to teach many sellers on how to package after we settled on some damaged item.  Handlers must toss these packages like shot putt or footballs.  Some of the damage is unbelievable even when they are packed reasonable well.  I include a note to the seller on every purchase on eBay to pack the items well because I have experienced much damage.  The ones who do not heed my warnings are usually taught a lesson with damaged goods.  Most of them will do all they can to work out the problem agreeably.  Rotten ones get complaints, poor feedback and returned items if they will not work out the problems. Thanks for the effort Sean... I am most thankful that I have had very few bad sellers in all of my years of buying on eBay. Happy buying, selling and railroading...  Don Staton in VA Snipped ================================================================= On 2/1/2011 8:47 PM, luvprr@... wrote:   Sounds good to me. In any case I didn't write the "3 sides reply" though I think that does apply in a lot of cases out there. . .

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15994	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 2/1/2011
Subject: Re: Avoid this listing! Pleaseee!

With respect to "handlers" I can't let this go till I add a supportive experience and warning of my own. I once upgraded a Penn Line loco and sent it to a client in Texas. I was certain I had packed it well but didn't appreciate what the weight of the loco would do to it within the confines of the packing. I was horrified to get an email detailing the damage to the boiler front and pilot. The buyer agreed that I had done a good job in packing, but that I hadn't figured on what the postal system would do to it. The package was insured, but getting reimbursement for the damage was a real hassle, so when the actual "handler" was located at the local post office it was helpful to hear that he freely admitted that he routinely tossed packages about 30 feet onto a concrete surface if they weren't clearly marked as being "fragile." (Must have been a Cowboy wanna-be) Talk about learning lessons. . .   Art W   In a message dated 2/1/2011 9:09:20 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, chpln1@... writes: Take Sean's warning for what it is...  An effort to protect the rest of us.  I have had lots of problems with poorly packaged items and have had to teach many sellers on how to package after we settled on some damaged item.  Handlers must toss these packages like shot putt or footballs.  Some of the damage is unbelievable even when they are packed reasonable well.  I include a note to the seller on every purchase on eBay to pack the items well because I have experienced much damage.  The ones who do not heed my warnings are usually taught a lesson with damaged goods.  Most of them will do all they can to work out the problem agreeably.  Rotten ones get complaints, poor feedback and returned items if they will not work out the problems. Thanks for the effort Sean... I am most thankful that I have had very few bad sellers in all of my years of buying on eBay. Happy buying, selling and railroading...  Don Staton in VA Snipped ================================================================= On 2/1/2011 8:47 PM, luvprr@... wrote:   Sounds good to me. In any case I didn't write the "3 sides reply" though I think that does apply in a lot of cases out there. . .

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15995	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 2/1/2011
Subject: Re: Avoid this listing! Pleaseee!

Being in business, and shipping fairly large items to all points, the absolute worse thing you can do, USPS, UPS oe FedUp, is to mark something "fragile". The only damage I have experienced has been on packages so marked. They have a lunchtime soccer game with "fragile" packages. Latest one was OOOps, a week or 10 days ago. Stack snapped off, headlight and bracket snaped off, all cab windows out, at least one gear snapped in gearbox. Insured for $1500, packed in factory die-cut Styrofoam container and box, in another box full of plastic peanuts, and they are arguing. Came from PRC to NY, then to Philly, then the distibutor, then the dealer, then the customer, then clear cross country to me, and going back to the customer in the same box they destroyed it. I do have other examples. > With respect to "handlers" I can't let this go till I add a supportive > experience and warning of my own. I once upgraded a Penn Line loco and sent it > to a client in Texas. I was certain I had packed it well but didn't > appreciate what the weight of the loco would do to it within the confines of the > packing. I was horrified to get an email detailing the damage to the boiler > front and pilot. The buyer agreed that I had done a good job in packing, > but that I hadn't figured on what the postal system would do to it. The > package was insured, but getting reimbursement for the damage was a real hassle, > so when the actual "handler" was located at the local post office it was > helpful to hear that he freely admitted that he routinely tossed packages > about 30 feet onto a concrete surface if they weren't clearly marked as being > "fragile." (Must have been a Cowboy wanna-be) Talk about learning lessons. > . . > > Art W > > > In a message dated 2/1/2011 9:09:20 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > chpln1@... writes: > > > > Take Sean's warning for what it is... An effort to protect the rest of > us. I have had lots of problems with poorly packaged items and have had to > teach many sellers on how to package after we settled on some damaged item. > Handlers must toss these packages like shot putt or footballs. Some of > the damage is unbelievable even when they are packed reasonable well. I > include a note to the seller on every purchase on eBay to pack the items well > because I have experienced much damage. The ones who do not heed my > warnings are usually taught a lesson with damaged goods. Most of them will do all > they can to work out the problem agreeably. Rotten ones get complaints, > poor feedback and returned items if they will not work out the problems. > > Thanks for the effort Sean... > > I am most thankful that I have had very few bad sellers in all of my years > of buying on eBay. > > Happy buying, selling and railroading... Don Staton in VA > > Snipped > ================================================================= > On 2/1/2011 8:47 PM, _luvprr@..._ (mailto:luvprr@...) wrote: > > Sounds good to me. In any case I didn't write the "3 sides reply" though I > think that does apply in a lot of cases out there. . . >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15996	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/1/2011
Subject: Re: JC Cardstock combine

I'll find out all about it in a few days. :-) Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "dennyanspach" <danspach@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 10:06 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: JC Cardstock combine Good! Well worth the effort. The Bristol board paper cardstock used for these sides was a very dense with a very high -perhaps pure- rag content. The embossed rivets were very sharp and much better rendered than J-C was able to do with the succeeding embossed aluminum sides. The trick is to fill the paper without obscuring the riveting. Applying the overlays to the wood ends can be a bit cautionary, but again the result *can* be markedly-superior to J-C's succeeding quite-crude cast lead alloy ends. I have several of these early passenger cars en train on the layout -as we speak-, and they can hold up quite well in the company of later, or even contemporary models of far greater pretence. Denny S. Anspach MD Sacramento On Jan 31, 2011, at 5:16 AM, vintageHO@yahoogroups.com wrote: > "Don Dellmann" don.dellmann@... don_dellmann > Sun Jan 30, 2011 4:11 pm (PST) > > > > If I win it will be built.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15997	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 2/1/2011
Subject: Re: Avoid this listing! Pleaseee!

Thanks Don, That is all it was meant to be. I am in not way trying to create a huge debate here or state some eBay bad seller bashing session. I just happen to know the true condition of this particular listing and it is nothing like what the seller has pictured or described. I think by posting my pictures of the items as I received them and the sellers listing as he currently has it, it should be pretty clear my and the sellers true intentions. That's all. I sell too as many here already know, including our moderator and I take tremendous pride in what I collect and or provide and how I provide it. I would just hate to see someone else pick this lot up and be as disappointed and surprised as I was by it's poor condition. Sean   1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! From: Donald R. Staton <chpln1@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, February 1, 2011 9:09:18 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Avoid this listing! Pleaseee!   Take Sean's warning for what it is...  An effort to protect the rest of us.  I have had lots of problems with poorly packaged items and have had to teach many sellers on how to package after we settled on some damaged item.  Handlers must toss these packages like shot putt or footballs.  Some of the damage is unbelievable even when they are packed reasonable well.  I include a note to the seller on every purchase on eBay to pack the items well because I have experienced much damage.  The ones who do not heed my warnings are usually taught a lesson with damaged goods.  Most of them will do all they can to work out the problem agreeably.  Rotten ones get complaints, poor feedback and returned items if they will not work out the problems. Thanks for the effort Sean... I am most thankful that I have had very few bad sellers in all of my years of buying on eBay. Happy buying, selling and railroading...  Don Staton in VA Snipped ================================================================= On 2/1/2011 8:47 PM, luvprr@... wrote:   Sounds good to me. In any case I didn't write the "3 sides reply" though I think that does apply in a lot of cases out there. . .

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15998	From: ckinzer@att.net	Date: 2/1/2011
Subject: Re: Avoid this listing! Pleaseee!

I have also received an engine now and then with the pilot bent in.  What happens is that the engine is heavy and moves like a little battering ram.  If the boiler front isn't supported extremely well, when it moves the engine just plows through foam and whatever and the pilot, the item protruding the most, hits something harder.   I have found most ebayers to be very good with only the occasional weasel.  And I make sure I'm not a weasel myself.  For example, I just bought an O gauge Walthers "Piker" kit.  When I got it, the sides, ends, and truck were missing.  The first reaction is the usual "What the...!"   I revisited the auction page and the seller had a dozen detailed photos and if I had studied them, I might have seen the discrepencies.  However, in her auction page she said "I think it's complete" and she had the type of page with just the one photo at the top left and then all the rest down in the body of the description.  The one photo seemed right and I was perhaps lulled into complacency with her "complete" opinion.  I don't think I was even aware of all those other photos further on down the page.  There were four other bidders and I strongly suspect they thought like I did.  (Walthers kit buyers are likely savvy about the things.)  She offered to give me a partial or full refund and also asked what more she could have done so it didn't happen again.  Very classy.  But she tried hard and really did nothing wrong.  I advised that if completeness is not truly know, some sellers say things like "may be missing parts".  But if not that, don't express an opinion about it if you don't now.  I felt it was mianly a bidder problem (me) so I just left the deal as-is.  It also had a bag of stripwood, nut and bolt castings, and other goodies as well as all the other Piker parts - so it isn't a total loss.   One weasel I won't name (but is probably known to many that buy used HO on ebay) has been just a little too slippery at times.  I bought a Kemtron Thomas Flyer kit mint in original box and the auction said it included the "copy of the manual".  The "copy" was actually a photocopy he had made for the occasion.  I asked him about this and it turns out he kept the original (collectible in its own right) and I had to buy it seperately in order to get it.   Chuck Kinzer   ----- Original Message ----- From: luvprr@... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 6:32 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Avoid this listing! Pleaseee!   With respect to "handlers" I can't let this go till I add a supportive experience and warning of my own. I once upgraded a Penn Line loco and sent it to a client in Texas. I was certain I had packed it well but didn't appreciate what the weight of the loco would do to it within the confines of the packing. I was horrified to get an email detailing the damage to the boiler front and pilot. The buyer agreed that I had done a good job in packing, but that I hadn't figured on what the postal system would do to it. The package was insured, but getting reimbursement for the damage was a real hassle, so when the actual "handler" was located at the local post office it was helpful to hear that he freely admitted that he routinely tossed packages about 30 feet onto a concrete surface if they weren't clearly marked as being "fragile." (Must have been a Cowboy wanna-be) Talk about learning lessons. . .   Art W

Group: vintageHO	Message: 15999	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 2/1/2011
Subject: Re: JC Cardstock combine

Congrats! I look forward to seeing your photos. On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 10:52 PM, Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote:   I'll find out all about it in a few days. :-) Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "dennyanspach" <danspach@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 10:06 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: JC Cardstock combine Good! Well worth the effort. The Bristol board paper cardstock used for these sides was a very dense with a very high -perhaps pure- rag content. The embossed rivets were very sharp and much better rendered than J-C was able to do with the succeeding embossed aluminum sides. The trick is to fill the paper without obscuring the riveting. Applying the overlays to the wood ends can be a bit cautionary, but again the result *can* be markedly-superior to J-C's succeeding quite-crude cast lead alloy ends. I have several of these early passenger cars en train on the layout -as we speak-, and they can hold up quite well in the company of later, or even contemporary models of far greater pretence. Denny S. Anspach MD Sacramento On Jan 31, 2011, at 5:16 AM, vintageHO@yahoogroups.com wrote: > "Don Dellmann" don.dellmann@... don_dellmann > Sun Jan 30, 2011 4:11 pm (PST) > > > > If I win it will be built. -- Regards, Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16000	From: Dale Hokanson	Date: 2/2/2011
Subject: Re: Avoid this listing! Pleaseee!

OK, so why does the guy have a 100% positive ebay rating if at least two of you received damaged materials???????? Lawrence D. (Dale) Hokanson dale.hokanson@... ____________________________________________________________________

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16001	From: The Danish Duke	Date: 2/2/2011
Subject: Re: Avoid this listing! Pleaseee!

Thanks for the warning. Did you give the person bad feedback? Maybe you should contact Ebay about this person`s auction? Earl Poulsen Vancouver, WA --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > Hi Guys, > > I do not like to do this, but it has to be done! > > I recently purchased a listing of engines and they came heavily damaged. They > were each wrapped into a single clear plastic bag and then thrown into a large > flat rate box with only a few other empty plastic bags as protection. Needless > to say, everything arrived damaged and in pieces.. Not only was the seller > aggressive and rude.. > > > I returned it.. This is the very first time I have ever returned anything. I was > so disappointed. > > I have just discovered he has re-listed it and has made NO mention of the > damage. or even updated the photos. > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/HO-Scale-Trains-Parts-and-Miscellaneous-/130481827193?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item1e6152ad79 > > > Here are how these engines actually look: > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/sets/72157625726596023/ > > Unbelievable! > > Sean > > > > 1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16002	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 2/2/2011
Subject: Re: Avoid this listing! Pleaseee!

Larry,   I left feedback by accident. I was only unhappy with the one transaction. The other lot was already in pieces and no additional damage was done to it, so a positive feedback was deserving on that lot.   I had ~100 feedbacks to go through and I had only a couple minutes to place them and I overlooked his transaction.   I tend to leave positives, so it was easy to do. I was quite digusted when I discovered I had done it myself.   Sean   1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! From: Dale Hokanson <dale.hokanson@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, February 2, 2011 12:33:08 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Avoid this listing! Pleaseee!   OK, so why does the guy have a 100% positive ebay rating if at least two of you received damaged materials???????? Lawrence D. (Dale) Hokanson dale.hokanson@... __________________________________________________________

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16003	From: tom leen	Date: 2/2/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Aerotrain

Hi Ralph, From the pictures you posted of the train, it sounds like that you are missing the drawbar that connects the passenger and the observation.  Can you see where one might have originally been attached?  Tom

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16004	From: RalphB	Date: 2/3/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Aerotrain

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Tom Leen wrote: > , > ...it sounds like that you are missing the drawbar that connects the passenger and the observation. ------------------------------ No, I'm not missing any drawbars; I have enough for the size train I bought. What I'm missing is the end to one of the cars. Either I have two observation bodies, but only one obs end, or the coach body is missing a coach end. In either case, I can probably construct another car end since, like the rest of the train, it's rather simple construction. Another member of the modular HO club I'm in has an Aerotrain set. He doesn't make all the meetings or shows, but he did have his train at a show we did last year. I'll have to see if we can get together so I can see what the differences are. Ralph B

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16005	From: tom leen	Date: 2/3/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Aerotrain

Hi Ralph, Ohhh!  I misunderstood.  I thought you had the correct parts.  That's a shame that it wound up like that.  I would definitely talk to your guy at the club.  It also sounds like you're pretty handy fashioning pieces.  Good luck. Best always, Tom --- On Thu, 2/3/11, RalphB <Alpvalsys@...> wrote: From: RalphB <Alpvalsys@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Varney Aerotrain To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, February 3, 2011, 2:24 PM   --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Tom Leen wrote: > , > ...it sounds like that you are missing the drawbar that connects the passenger and the observation. ------------------------------ No, I'm not missing any drawbars; I have enough for the size train I bought. What I'm missing is the end to one of the cars. Either I have two observation bodies, but only one obs end, or the coach body is missing a coach end. In either case, I can probably construct another car end since, like the rest of the train, it's rather simple construction. Another member of the modular HO club I'm in has an Aerotrain set. He doesn't make all the meetings or shows, but he did have his train at a show we did last year. I'll have to see if we can get together so I can see what the differences are. Ralph B

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16006	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 2/3/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Aerotrain

The Varney Aerotrain observation body is just like a coach missing one end. Bowser now sells the parts for the Varney AeroTrain. They were missing the original die for the two piece Varney Aerotrain end and eventually made a new one piece casting in clear styrene. You can buy one for about $5 and use it until you might find an original Varney casting set of end and window. The Bowser end will fit just like the OOP Varney end on your Aerotrain. You'll have to mask the window portion of the end and paint to match the rest of the train. http://www.bowser-trains.com/hoemrrs/aerotrain/3_300.pdf The observation part number is #2575, found in their parts listing as "Bowser 2575 OBSERVATION END $5.29 " You can also buy the parts for several more cars or engines if you wish. here are many of those parts...... Bowser 2554 AEROTRAIN LOCO BODY PRR $32.99 Bowser 2555 AEROTRAIN LOCO BODY RI $32.99 Bowser 2556 AEROTRAIN LOCO BODY NYC $32.99 Bowser 2557 AEROTRAIN LOCO BODY UP $32.99 Bowser 2558 AEROTRAIN LOCO BODY GM $29.03 Bowser 2559 AEROTRAIN COACH BODY PRR $23.74 Bowser 2560 AEROTRAIN COACH BODY RI $23.74 Bowser 2561 AEROTRAIN COACH BODY NYC_UP_GM $19.77 Bowser 2563 AEROTRAIN OBS BODY RI $30.35 Bowser 2564 AEROTRAIN OBS BODY NYC_UP_GM $26.38 Bowser 2565 AEROTRAIN OBS. BODY UNDEC $7.94 Bowser 2566 AEROTRAIN COACH DIAPHRAM $1.99 Bowser 2567 AEROTRAIN COACH BODY $9.26 Bowser 2568 AERO TRAIN BOLSER W/CPLR POCKET $1.66 Bowser 2569 AEROTRAIN DRAWBAR PIN $0.99 Bowser 2570 AEROTRAIN COACH DRAWBAR $0.99 Bowser 2571 AEROTRAIN 2 PIECE BODY $11.90 Bowser 2572 AERO TAIN HEADLIGHT $0.67 Bowser 2573 WINDSHIELD $1.32 Bowser 2574 DUMMY FRAME $7.94 Bowser 2575 OBSERVATION END $5.29 Bowser 2576 BOLSTER $1.25 Bowser 2577 33" SHOLDERED WHEEL $1.99 Bowser 2578 DUMMY WHEEL FRAME $4.63 Best to ya, Mike Bauers Milwaukee, Wi On Feb 3, 2011, at 8:24 AM, RalphB wrote: > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Tom Leen wrote: >> > , >> ...it sounds like that you are missing the drawbar that connects >> the passenger and the observation. > ------------------------------ > No, I'm not missing any drawbars; I have enough for the size train I > bought. What I'm missing is the end to one of the cars. Either I > have two observation bodies, but only one obs end, or the coach body > is missing a coach end. In either case, I can probably construct > another car end since, like the rest of the train, it's rather > simple construction. > > Another member of the modular HO club I'm in has an Aerotrain set. > He doesn't make all the meetings or shows, but he did have his train > at a show we did last year. I'll have to see if we can get together > so I can see what the differences are. > > Ralph B

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16007	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 2/3/2011
Subject: Mantua Uncouplers

All, As with the recent blizzard here in Illinois, my shop's door is still blocked by a six foot drift of snow on the sidewalk. So I have the day off today from my computer shop. I stopped by the hardware store, which carries K&S Engineering metals (Limited selection, though), and bought a few 1/2" wide brass strips. I had an idea on how to make Mantua uncoupling ramps. I cut the strips into sections 2-1/2" long, and drilled holes at either end using a 3/32" drill. Then I gave the brass strip a gentle arch upward. I use Bachmann EZ-Track, as it is simple and works. I know I will get a lot of grief about this, but keep in mind that roadbed track systems are as old as the hobby - Scale-Craft and Lionel had 'em in OO scale in the 1930s! Gilbert did in the prewar era, too, I believe, in HO scale. Anyway, a benefit of using the Bachmann track, is that those holes I drilled either end of the strip, I could run a #0 wood screw through the hole, and into the plastic roadbed, making it a permanent uncoupling ramp. I used screws smaller than the ramp so that it could have a little wiggle room for flexing if need be. I suppose for the more craftsmen type who hand ballast their own track, one could run long screws between the ties, through roadbed, and into the wooden tabletop. I just tried the first one completed, and it works like a charm! All I had to do was adjust the upward curve a little, which is another benefit to having some leeway in the mount holes. Will be a fun day installing these! -Steve Neubaum

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16008	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/3/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Aerotrain

----- Original Message ----- From: "RalphB" <Alpvalsys@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2011 8:24 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Varney Aerotrain > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Tom Leen wrote: >> > , >> ...it sounds like that you are missing the drawbar that connects the >> passenger and the observation. > ------------------------------ > No, I'm not missing any drawbars; I have enough for the size train I > bought. What I'm missing is the end to one of the cars. Either I have > two observation bodies, but only one obs end, or the coach body is missing > a coach end. In either case, I can probably construct another car end > since, like the rest of the train, it's rather simple construction. > > Another member of the modular HO club I'm in has an Aerotrain set. He > doesn't make all the meetings or shows, but he did have his train at a > show we did last year. I'll have to see if we can get together so I can > see what the differences are. > > Ralph B You have two observation bodies and only one end. The coaches were molded with a one piece body that included both ends. You can still get additional bodies from the original Varney dies from Bowser. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16009	From: Glenn	Date: 2/3/2011
Subject: Re: Mantua Uncouplers

almost  exactly how Mantua did it. They used phosphor bronze,  with fiber end  bases.  gj   From: Stephen Neubaum Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2011 10:23 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Mantua Uncouplers   All, As with the recent blizzard here in Illinois, my shop's door is still blocked by a six foot drift of snow on the sidewalk. So I have the day off today from my computer shop. I stopped by the hardware store, which carries K&S Engineering metals (Limited selection, though), and bought a few 1/2" wide brass strips. I had an idea on how to make Mantua uncoupling ramps. I cut the strips into sections 2-1/2" long, and drilled holes at either end using a 3/32" drill. Then I gave the brass strip a gentle arch upward. I use Bachmann EZ-Track, as it is simple and works. I know I will get a lot of grief about this, but keep in mind that roadbed track systems are as old as the hobby - Scale-Craft and Lionel had 'em in OO scale in the 1930s! Gilbert did in the prewar era, too, I believe, in HO scale. Anyway, a benefit of using the Bachmann track, is that those holes I drilled either end of the strip, I could run a #0 wood screw through the hole, and into the plastic roadbed, making it a permanent uncoupling ramp. I used screws smaller than the ramp so that it could have a little wiggle room for flexing if need be. I suppose for the more craftsmen type who hand ballast their own track, one could run long screws between the ties, through roadbed, and into the wooden tabletop. I just tried the first one completed, and it works like a charm! All I had to do was adjust the upward curve a little, which is another benefit to having some leeway in the mount holes. Will be a fun day installing these! -Steve Neubaum

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16010	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 2/3/2011
Subject: Re: Mantua Uncouplers

I also have seen Mantua uncouplers with die cast bases too. Unusable to me, they are, as at least with the fiber bases, there was a square hole in the middle which one could run a small #2 screw through to secure them to the track. The idea was that they were "portable" though. -Steve Neubaum --- On Thu, 2/3/11, Glenn <glenn476@...> wrote: From: Glenn <glenn476@...> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Mantua Uncouplers To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, February 3, 2011, 6:40 PM   almost  exactly how Mantua did it. They used phosphor bronze,  with fiber end  bases.  gj   From: Stephen Neubaum Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2011 10:23 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Mantua Uncouplers   All, As with the recent blizzard here in Illinois, my shop's door is still blocked by a six foot drift of snow on the sidewalk. So I have the day off today from my computer shop. I stopped by the hardware store, which carries K&S Engineering metals (Limited selection, though), and bought a few 1/2" wide brass strips. I had an idea on how to make Mantua uncoupling ramps. I cut the strips into sections 2-1/2" long, and drilled holes at either end using a 3/32" drill. Then I gave the brass strip a gentle arch upward. I use Bachmann EZ-Track, as it is simple and works. I know I will get a lot of grief about this, but keep in mind that roadbed track systems are as old as the hobby - Scale-Craft and Lionel had 'em in OO scale in the 1930s! Gilbert did in the prewar era, too, I believe, in HO scale. Anyway, a benefit of using the Bachmann track, is that those holes I drilled either end of the strip, I could run a #0 wood screw through the hole, and into the plastic roadbed, making it a permanent uncoupling ramp. I used screws smaller than the ramp so that it could have a little wiggle room for flexing if need be. I suppose for the more craftsmen type who hand ballast their own track, one could run long screws between the ties, through roadbed, and into the wooden tabletop. I just tried the first one completed, and it works like a charm! All I had to do was adjust the upward curve a little, which is another benefit to having some leeway in the mount holes. Will be a fun day installing these! -Steve Neubaum

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16011	From: Jim Waterman	Date: 2/4/2011
Subject: Re: Avoid this listing! Pleaseee!

At least he says they're bubble wrapped this time. What a mess

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16012	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/5/2011
Subject: Re: JC Cardstock combine

Attachments : JC-cardside.jpg The kit came yesterday, (I wasn't expecting it, won and paid Tuesday night, mailed on Wednesday when there was the "blizzard of the decade" between the sender in Iowa and here, but came Friday) Denny was right about the level of detail on the sides, I showed them to a couple people at work, they couldn't believe it was card. Photo attached. Someone commented on the length. It's marked as a " 68 foot", but just setting the floor and the two ends down on a ruler it's coming out at 72' without the end doors. Regardless, it looks to mate very well with the HO-12 NYC metal side coach. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "Walter Bayer II" <bayerw2@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 10:29 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: JC Cardstock combine Congrats! I look forward to seeing your photos. On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 10:52 PM, Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...>wrote: > > > I'll find out all about it in a few days. :-) > > Don > > Don Dellmann > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "dennyanspach" <danspach@... <danspach%40macnexus.org>> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com <vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com>> > Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 10:06 AM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: JC Cardstock combine > > Good! Well worth the effort. > > The Bristol board paper cardstock used for these sides was a very dense > with > a very high -perhaps pure- rag content. The embossed rivets were very > sharp > > and much better rendered than J-C was able to do with the succeeding > embossed aluminum sides. The trick is to fill the paper without obscuring > the riveting. Applying the overlays to the wood ends can be a bit > cautionary, but again the result *can* be markedly-superior to J-C's > succeeding quite-crude cast lead alloy ends. > > I have several of these early passenger cars en train on the layout -as we > speak-, and they can hold up quite well in the company of later, or even > contemporary models of far greater pretence. > > Denny S. Anspach MD > Sacramento

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 16013	From: jim heckard	Date: 2/5/2011
Subject: Looking to buy

Attachments : IMG_6739_1.JPG               I am looking to buy an HO item that was put out by Sampson. There were two versions produced. One in 1949 and one in 1950 that were basically the same engines. Supposedly a copy of a 1940 era rail car of the NYS&W RR.  This HO engine was sold as "The Silver Bullet " and was an aluminum parts kit. To me it looks like an old bath tub upside down and has somewhat the look of the Zephyr  I am only looking for the HO model made by Sampson. ( Sorry for the poor picture as it was taken from a glossy photo.         If you have one you would sell contact me off site at jimhach@... with price and condition.                                                                     Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 16014	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 2/5/2011
Subject: Train show stuff

Just got back from a trains show, picked up 20 freight cars and an engine. Couple of Athearn metal auto boxcars, couple of Silver Streak boxcars, some wrapped tankers not yet fully identified, two Walthers (?) express reefers, 2 Walthers (?) cast stock cars (heavy buggers), some Megow and a couple of Mantua metal cars, a box and a reefer. One wagon-top box, Erie, funny brown color, thought it was Megow (paper sides), but looks from the HOSeeker site that the Megow unit is B&O, so still looking. And, a Rivarossi 2-truck Heisler, missing roof-mounted headlight, couple of small bits....... Whole box, $60. Tomorrow he's bringing in a bag of Mantua couplers for my buddy to pick up he doesn't want. Cleaned and lubed the Heisler, runs right down the track. Noisy motors, they have, but all the monkey motion works fine. Dave

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16015	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 2/5/2011
Subject: Re: Train show stuff

I got the paper-sided Erie wagon top in a good light and it appears it's a repaint/reletter from Norfolk and Western. I have to go from side to side to get enough discernible letters to see, but that's what it looks like. NEXT QUESTION: Silver Streak S208, Chicago Outer Belt EJ&E green boxcar. What is the color green used? The roof and ends need repainting (actually, more paint) and the doors never were painted. Not sure what that color actually is...maybe one of you astute gentlemen knows. Thanks. Dave > > Just got back from a trains show, picked up 20 freight cars and an engine. > Couple of Athearn metal auto boxcars, couple of Silver Streak boxcars, some wrapped tankers not yet fully identified, two Walthers (?) express reefers, 2 Walthers (?) cast stock cars (heavy buggers), some Megow and a couple of Mantua metal cars, a box and a reefer. > > One wagon-top box, Erie, funny brown color, thought it was Megow (paper sides), but looks from the HOSeeker site that the Megow unit is B&O, so still looking. > > And, a Rivarossi 2-truck Heisler, missing roof-mounted headlight, couple of small bits....... > > Whole box, $60. > > Tomorrow he's bringing in a bag of Mantua couplers for my buddy to pick up he doesn't want. > > Cleaned and lubed the Heisler, runs right down the track. > Noisy motors, they have, but all the monkey motion works fine. > > Dave >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16016	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 2/5/2011
Subject: Re: Train show stuff

Did a little experimenting, looks like Vermont Green from Floquil is pretty close. I thought at first it wasn't, as I touched up a spot on the roof, then realised the roof is darker than the factory sides. > > Silver Streak S208, Chicago Outer Belt EJ&E green boxcar. > What is the color green used? > The roof and ends need repainting (actually, more paint) and the doors never were painted. > Not sure what that color actually is...maybe one of you astute gentlemen knows. > > Thanks. > > Dave > > > > Just got back from a trains show, picked up 20 freight cars and an engine. > > Couple of Athearn metal auto boxcars, couple of Silver Streak boxcars, some wrapped tankers not yet fully identified, two Walthers (?) express reefers, 2 Walthers (?) cast stock cars (heavy buggers), some Megow and a couple of Mantua metal cars, a box and a reefer. > > > > One wagon-top box, Erie, funny brown color, thought it was Megow (paper sides), but looks from the HOSeeker site that the Megow unit is B&O, so still looking. > > > > And, a Rivarossi 2-truck Heisler, missing roof-mounted headlight, couple of small bits....... > > > > Whole box, $60. > > > > Tomorrow he's bringing in a bag of Mantua couplers for my buddy to pick up he doesn't want. > > > > Cleaned and lubed the Heisler, runs right down the track. > > Noisy motors, they have, but all the monkey motion works fine. > > > > Dave > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16017	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 2/5/2011
Subject: plastic truck question

One of the cars I picked up has a truck design I have never seen. Plastic, fixed, i.e. no functional springs: Modeled, each side, is one leaf and one coil. What is it?

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16018	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 2/5/2011
Subject: Re: plastic truck question

I believe it is called a "Coil eliptical". I have seen O Scale 2-rail Walthers trucks of such. I take it that the truck is similar to the one in the boxcar on this page: http://www.hansmanns.org/relics_of_rails/bradford_boxcars.htm Except that boxcar has two coil springs visible - one on each side of the leaf (elliptical) spring. I think they were used in the late prewar era into the early postwar era on heavier cars. -Steve Neubaum --- On Sat, 2/5/11, trainsnwrcs <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: From: trainsnwrcs <idioticyahoo@...> Subject: [vintageHO] plastic truck question To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, February 5, 2011, 11:29 PM   One of the cars I picked up has a truck design I have never seen. Plastic, fixed, i.e. no functional springs: Modeled, each side, is one leaf and one coil. What is it?

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16019	From: Jim Waterman	Date: 2/6/2011
Subject: Re: Looking to buy

Jim Is this the prototype of what you are looking for? It was built was ACF, and they called it a motorailer. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:NYSW1002.jpg Jim Waterman

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16020	From: jim heckard	Date: 2/6/2011
Subject: Re: Looking to buy

Hi Jim,       Yes the picture you sent is very close to the look of the item I am trying to find. It was a copy of a NYSW Railcar but had less side windows as my picture showed. I ONLY want the item that was produced by Sampson from 1949-1950. I know for a fact they were produced but have never seen one on ebay ( unless I happened to miss it ) and would like this particular model for my vintage collection.                                Jim H ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Waterman To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2011 1:01 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Looking to buy   Jim Is this the prototype of what you are looking for? It was built was ACF, and they called it a motorailer. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:NYSW1002.jpg Jim Waterman

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16021	From: Richard White	Date: 2/8/2011
Subject: Re: Looking to buy [1 Attachment]

Hi Jim- In September 1949 my father took me to the Hobby Show at the Bayfront Auditorium in Miami, Florida. I was very interested in the small operating HO gauge layout, which featured that Sampson rail car, pulling at least one trailer. I've always remembered its distinctive look. Regards- Richard White   To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: jimheck@... Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2011 13:25:43 -0500 Subject: [vintageHO] Looking to buy [1 Attachment]   [Attachment(s) from jim heckard included below]               I am looking to buy an HO item that was put out by Sampson. There were two versions produced. One in 1949 and one in 1950 that were basically the same engines. Supposedly a copy of a 1940 era rail car of the NYS&W RR.  This HO engine was sold as "The Silver Bullet " and was an aluminum parts kit. To me it looks like an old bath tub upside down and has somewhat the look of the Zephyr  I am only looking for the HO model made by Sampson. ( Sorry for the poor picture as it was taken from a glossy photo.         If you have one you would sell contact me off site at jimhach@... with price and condition.                                                                     Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16022	From: jim heckard	Date: 2/8/2011
Subject: Change of pace

Attachments : IMG_6749_3.JPG IMG_6748_2.JPG IMG_6746_1.JPG                While I wait to find an original or decent Baker valve gear replacement for my 1938 Conover 2-10-2 project, change and repaint the frame on my Mantua / American Flyer 4-4-0 FY&P that has a broken pilot and strip old paint off the Hobbies Inc Aluminum PA ALCO body I got I decided to change pace a little bit.        My wife bought me a new J L Innovative craftsman type building for my new layout in progress so I decided to change gears a little and build the kit. Pictures will show a small manufacturing plant that makes tools like picks and shovels. I happen to like the "odd" shapes" of the J L Innovative kits and they suit my needs as front line down by the track pieces. The last picture will show 3 of their kits in a row . ( I haven't gotten around to "toning down" the buildings since my vintage HO collection takes precedence. but will be easier with suggestions from Don Dellman ).         Maybe if I live to 103 I might get the layout finished.                                                      Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 16023	From: jim heckard	Date: 2/8/2011
Subject: Re: Looking to buy

Richard,        Wish I could have seen one run to see what they were like. Don't have plans for one so I don't know how they were powered. I do know Sampson produced an F unit drive ( I have pictures ) to be used in Varney metal F-3 units that were supposed to be a 50 % improvement. I've only ever seen pictures of the rail car some one had. A friend in CA saw one at a show and called me to see if I wanted it. By the time I told him to get it it was gone. While not seen on eBay I can't believe it would fall in the category of extremely rare although the Sampson passenger cars are not an every day item either.                                                              Jim H ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard White To: Jim Heckard Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 9:12 AM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Looking to buy   Hi Jim- In September 1949 my father took me to the Hobby Show at the Bayfront Auditorium in Miami, Florida. I was very interested in the small operating HO gauge layout, which featured that Sampson rail car, pulling at least one trailer. I've always remembered its distinctive look. Regards- Richard White   To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: jimheck@... Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2011 13:25:43 -0500 Subject: [vintageHO] Looking to buy [1 Attachment]   [Attachment(s) from jim heckard included below]               I am looking to buy an HO item that was put out by Sampson. There were two versions produced. One in 1949 and one in 1950 that were basically the same engines. Supposedly a copy of a 1940 era rail car of the NYS&W RR.  This HO engine was sold as "The Silver Bullet " and was an aluminum parts kit. To me it looks like an old bath tub upside down and has somewhat the look of the Zephyr  I am only looking for the HO model made by Sampson. ( Sorry for the poor picture as it was taken from a glossy photo.         If you have one you would sell contact me off site at jimhach@... with price and condition.                                                                     Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16024	From: Donald R. Staton	Date: 2/8/2011
Subject: Re: Change of pace [3 Attachments]

Looking good, Jim...  Keep it up! Don Staton in Va. ==================================================== On 2/8/2011 1:52 PM, jim heckard wrote:                  While I wait to find an original or decent Baker valve gear replacement for my 1938 Conover 2-10-2 project, change and repaint the frame on my Mantua / American Flyer 4-4-0 FY&P that has a broken pilot and strip old paint off the Hobbies Inc Aluminum PA ALCO body I got I decided to change pace a little bit.        My wife bought me a new J L Innovative craftsman type building for my new layout in progress so I decided to change gears a little and build the kit. Pictures will show a small manufacturing plant that makes tools like picks and shovels. I happen to like the "odd" shapes" of the J L Innovative kits and they suit my needs as front line down by the track pieces. The last picture will show 3 of their kits in a row . ( I haven't gotten around to "toning down" the buildings since my vintage HO collection takes precedence. but will be easier with suggestions from Don Dellman ).         Maybe if I live to 103 I might get the layout finished.                                                      Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16025	From: Westfield Weavers	Date: 2/8/2011
Subject: train donations

Dear Groups   Please forgive the multiple postings   This post is to ask for donations of some basic HO train equipment for a small layout at a non-profit Rehab unit connected to a Living facility. I have agreed to volunteer to help residents put together a small mini layout. There are a few people who were train enthusiasts in their healthier years and now are in wheel chairs with serious health problems.   Here is my wish list   1 steam engine and 1 diesel, both small,reliable and tough—think child proof rolling stock—freight or passenger cars for a small train with working couplers and trucks—any era, any road name oval or circle of EZ track with rerailer/terminal track small used power pack inexpensive plastic structures   Anything you send would be greatly appreciated and will contribute to brighten someone's day—more than you may think. Thank You for your help and please forgive this intrusion Contact me offline with any questions. Colin Claxon 6419 Glen Rd Coopersburg, Pa 18036 westfieldweavers@...

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16026	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 2/8/2011
Subject: Silver Streak reefers

I have one I believe to be Silver Streak, based upon the frame and the thick wood sides. It is, I think, an S-414. However, the photos on HOSeeker show on the right side, angled, "Route of the Zephyrs", whilst this one has a rectangular "Burlington Route" placcard. Did they have both, or is this a "bash" of several manufacturers? Who else made the 1/8" thick milled pre-painted sides? Thanks. Dave

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16027	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/8/2011
Subject: Re: Silver Streak reefers

----- Original Message ----- From: "trainsnwrcs" <idioticyahoo@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 5:23 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Silver Streak reefers >I have one I believe to be Silver Streak, based upon the frame and the >thick wood sides. > It is, I think, an S-414. > However, the photos on HOSeeker show on the right side, angled, "Route of > the Zephyrs", whilst this one has a rectangular "Burlington Route" > placcard. > > Did they have both, or is this a "bash" of several manufacturers? > Who else made the 1/8" thick milled pre-painted sides? > > Thanks. > > Dave FWIW, the S-703 Truss rod reefer has the square Burlington placard but with Colorado Southern reporting marks on the left side, Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16028	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 2/8/2011
Subject: Re: Silver Streak reefers

Here's the full data: Left side, first line: Burlington Second line, Refrigerator Express Under that, BREX, under that 75423 Right side is the rectangular Burlington Route, under that is Ventilator Refrigerator. No C&S markings I can find. Thanks. Dave > > FWIW, the S-703 Truss rod reefer has the square Burlington placard but with > Colorado Southern reporting marks on the left side, > > Don > > Don Dellmann > don.dellmann@... > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ > http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction > Owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16029	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 2/8/2011
Subject: Re: Silver Streak reefers

Looks kinda like this: http://hoseeker.net/silverstreakinformation/silverstreaksaleslist1960pg2.jpg except the ""Way of the Zephyrs" is not there, and the herald is more centered on the RH side, I think (car's in the shop) the reporting marks are on the right, and there is no black line on the bottom left. Yellow, not orange. Dave > > Here's the full data: > > Left side, first line: Burlington > Second line, Refrigerator Express > Under that, BREX, under that 75423 > Right side is the rectangular Burlington Route, under that is Ventilator Refrigerator. > > No C&S markings I can find. > > Thanks. > Dave > > > > > > FWIW, the S-703 Truss rod reefer has the square Burlington placard but with > > Colorado Southern reporting marks on the left side, > > > > Don > > > > Don Dellmann > > don.dellmann@ > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ > > http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction > > Owner > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16030	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 2/8/2011
Subject: Re: Silver Streak reefers

VERY similar to this one (right side, halfway down), except A) not a paper side, and B) number is different: http://hoseeker.net/redball/redballcatalog03pg07.jpg > > Looks kinda like this: > http://hoseeker.net/silverstreakinformation/silverstreaksaleslist1960pg2.jpg > > except the ""Way of the Zephyrs" is not there, and the herald is more centered on the RH side, I think (car's in the shop) the reporting marks are on the right, and there is no black line on the bottom left. > > Yellow, not orange. > > Dave > > > > > Here's the full data: > > > > Left side, first line: Burlington > > Second line, Refrigerator Express > > Under that, BREX, under that 75423 > > Right side is the rectangular Burlington Route, under that is Ventilator Refrigerator. > > > > No C&S markings I can find. > > > > Thanks. > > Dave > > > > > > > > > > FWIW, the S-703 Truss rod reefer has the square Burlington placard but with > > > Colorado Southern reporting marks on the left side, > > > > > > Don > > > > > > Don Dellmann > > > don.dellmann@ > > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ > > > http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction > > > Owner > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16031	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/8/2011
Subject: Re: Silver Streak reefers

I have an old paper side Mantua that again, is like that but different road number. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "trainsnwrcs" <idioticyahoo@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 6:12 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Silver Streak reefers > > > VERY similar to this one (right side, halfway down), except A) not a paper > side, and B) number is different: > > http://hoseeker.net/redball/redballcatalog03pg07.jpg > > > >> >> Looks kinda like this: >> http://hoseeker.net/silverstreakinformation/silverstreaksaleslist1960pg2.jpg >> >> except the ""Way of the Zephyrs" is not there, and the herald is more >> centered on the RH side, I think (car's in the shop) the reporting marks >> are on the right, and there is no black line on the bottom left. >> >> Yellow, not orange. >> >> Dave >> >> > >> > Here's the full data: >> > >> > Left side, first line: Burlington >> > Second line, Refrigerator Express >> > Under that, BREX, under that 75423 >> > Right side is the rectangular Burlington Route, under that is >> > Ventilator Refrigerator. >> > >> > No C&S markings I can find. >> > >> > Thanks. >> > Dave >> > >> > >> > > >> > > FWIW, the S-703 Truss rod reefer has the square Burlington placard >> > > but with >> > > Colorado Southern reporting marks on the left side, >> > > >> > > Don >> > > >> > > Don Dellmann >> > > don.dellmann@ >> > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ >> > > http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction >> > > Owner >> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO >> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery >> > > >> > >> > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16032	From: dennyanspach	Date: 2/9/2011
Subject: Sampson "Motorailer" streamlined power car.

If i recall correctly, I believe that Sampson advertised two different versions of this kit with two different nose shapes. On a casual basis, I too have been looking -unsuccesfully- for one of these,  ever since first seeing (and coveting) an advertising photo of one in the old Burgess Hobby Shop on Wabash Avenue in Chicago's Loop in about 1950 or so.   However, over the years since, I have not come across even one, or pieces of one.  I do not know the answer, but in part I suspect that Sampson did not produce many, and those that they did produce probably had cast noses that suffered with very early zincpest...like so many of the other Sampson cast parts.  Did they actually produce the two different versions? I have a bag (bag!) full of Sampson cast ends, etc., some of them semi-intact because I epoxied pieces together, but most others (all?) just held together purely by gravity, and atoms holding hands. Denny       Denny S.  Anspach MD Sacramento

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16033	From: jim heckard	Date: 2/9/2011
Subject: Re: Sampson "Motorailer" streamlined power car.

Dennis,       The only printed information I have about the Sampson Rail Cars comes from Lena Locomotive Lexicon Volume II  Page 61.       There are two pictures shown which I sent previously( both Sampson Company Photos ). The top one states  "1949 version of a rail car by Samson" showing the left side of the car.      Underneath the second picture it states "  1950 version of the rail car by Sampson " but showing the right side of the car.       A final statement " Rail Car ( 1940 era NAYS&WE RR ) Sampson   1949,1950 ( sold as the Silver Bullet, ALUMINUM PARTS kit )        From this little information I gather there were two versions , one in 1949 and one in 1950. Because of the angle of the pictures and from different sides I can only guess that there is a difference in the front window pattern of the nose of each version. How factual this info is remains to be seen,       As far as zinc pest in cast parts this info says ALUMINUM PARTS Kits for the rail car . I do know the passenger car bodies and ends had problems. The extruded passenger car bodies had magnesium in them and many corroded real bad where it is just about impossible to clean the and the ends for the cars disintegrated , cracked and chunks fell out. I gave up trying to fix them and had new ones cast that wouldn't have zinc pest.       A little side note is that Sampson bought out a sheet brass diesel engine by Barr Nixon H-10-44 and sold it under the Sampson name and also produced a drive unit the was used under Varney cast metal F-3 bodies that was to be a superior item.                                                    Jim H ----- Original Message ----- From: dennyanspach To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 11:01 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Sampson "Motorailer" streamlined power car.   If i recall correctly, I believe that Sampson advertised two different versions of this kit with two different nose shapes. On a casual basis, I too have been looking -unsuccesfully- for one of these,  ever since first seeing (and coveting) an advertising photo of one in the old Burgess Hobby Shop on Wabash Avenue in Chicago's Loop in about 1950 or so.   However, over the years since, I have not come across even one, or pieces of one.  I do not know the answer, but in part I suspect that Sampson did not produce many, and those that they did produce probably had cast noses that suffered with very early zincpest...like so many of the other Sampson cast parts.  Did they actually produce the two different versions? I have a bag (bag!) full of Sampson cast ends, etc., some of them semi-intact because I epoxied pieces together, but most others (all?) just held together purely by gravity, and atoms holding hands. Denny       Denny S.  Anspach MD Sacramento

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16034	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 2/9/2011
Subject: Most "fun" so far

Mantua metal boxcar. This one was mangled pretty badly, but I like the deep maroon of the NYC sides, so figured I'd try to fix it. The floor was rough....sorted that. Door catches at the bottom, well, sorted that. Roof pieces that locked the sides in, one gone, one loose, so I set the sides properly and hot-glued the whiz outta them, solid. Trying to get the doors to stay in has been a project. Had to re-sort the floor, re-trim the bottom cardboard overlay at the bottom, the side ladders were bent under the body, holding the floor away from the body at cross angles, got it done and one door would still pop occasionally. Looked at the fit, and added two strips of thin black styrene under the center frame outriggers to hold the floor tightly against the bottom guides, and that did it. Another one done! Waiting on the seller to mail me the Mantua couplers he took off all the cars before he sold them, and we may have 40 Mantua equipped pieces ready to roll. Dave

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16035	From: Tom Hare	Date: 2/9/2011
Subject: Fix your old trains with beer cans!!!!!

I have found lots of hack jobs with people repairing their own trains but this is one of the best. They cut strips out of a budweiser can and wired it to an Athearn SW7 truck pick-ups and motor. Believe it or not he did two of them the same way, one ran and one did not. Needless to say I removed them and wired them as they should have been. I will upload a picture call beer can repairs if you want to see it. Thought you would find this humerous. Tom

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16036	From: Nelson	Date: 2/10/2011
Subject: Re: Fix your old trains with beer cans!!!!!

Maybe it seemed like a good idea after a few beers. I've seen some Kadee coupler mounting jobs that would have mad Rube Golberg proud, and I bought a junker engine a few years ago that had the pilot filled in with cardboard. It was painted, of course. Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Hare" <jodanjackkayla@...> wrote: > > I have found lots of hack jobs with people repairing their own trains but this is one of the best. They cut strips out of a budweiser can and wired it to an Athearn SW7 truck pick-ups and motor. Believe it or not he did two of them the same way, one ran and one did not. Needless to say I removed them and wired them as they should have been. I will upload a picture call beer can repairs if you want to see it. Thought you would find this humerous. Tom >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16037	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 2/11/2011
Subject: Re: Ambroid 8 Hatch Reefer

Hi Reed, I found a photo of the completed model in Model Railroader Trade Topics of August 1964, but I never found an Ambroid ad for one of these.  The Trade Topics photo does indeed show the door as Boxcar Red and the roof as silver.  Many reefers back then used silver insulating paint on the roofs.  The MKT/Katy Sloan Yellow reefers and boxcars also had silver roofs. I will be repainting the door to BCR.  I will need to carefully match the color.  GROAN!!! Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com CC: estabrook@... From: estabrook@... Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 20:29:42 -0500 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Ambroid 8 Hatch Reefer   Vic - I have one of these too - the roof is silver, the doors are BCR.  However, I was planning to repaint the roof BCR also, after looking through my Canadian National Color Guide - It doesn't show this exact car, but other wood cars of the same era were all BCR, including the doors. Reed -----Original Message----- From: bitlerisvj <bitlerisvj@...> To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Mon, Jan 31, 2011 12:22 pm Subject: [vintageHO] Ambroid 8 Hatch Reefer   Hi folks, A couple of friends and I went to a train show in Wilmington (NC) this past weekend and I picked up a couple of goodies, DIRT CHEAP. Cars for 3 and 4 dollars a piece. A couple of cars had either Kadee or Central Valley trucks, so they paid for themselves right there. But the cars are keepers, so with a bit of clean up, they are already on the tracks. One car I picked up for 3 dollars was an already assembled Ambroid 8 hatch CP reefer. The paint was really pretty decent as was the construction, so this one is not going into the dunk tank. Besides it could be a problem getting decals and they are in decent shape. I just need to put on some decal solvent and get em to snuggle down a bit better. There are a few roof ribs missing as well as some underframe cross members. The underframe will be a piece of cake to fix. I will also add on all the brake piping, since the underframe will be repainted. The roof ribs are easily fabricated from .020 styrene. In fact, I am almost done. The reason the ribs got lost is the person that assembled this actually used Ambroid cement, so the rest of the ribs pretty much fell off with very little prodding. I will rebuild and repaint the roof also. Now I come to my question for anyone that knows. The builder painted the reefer side doors and tracks silver. I know the roof is suppose d to be silver, because I have an unbuilt kit, but for some reason, I expected the door to be the car side color, boxcar red. If the door is prototypically correct, I will leave it, otherwise if someone can tell me what it should be, I will be happy to repaint. Thanks and regards, Vic Bitleris

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16038	From: Richard White	Date: 2/11/2011
Subject: Re: Ambroid 8 Hatch Reefer

Hi Reed- I built one of these 8-hatch reefers back in 1965. I found an error in the instructions regarding triming the siding adjacent to the doors (this was also pointed out in the MR review), necessitating filling in with a small piece of wood at each door. I regret selling this car in the 80's. Regards- Richard White   To: vintageho@yahoogroups.com From: bitlerisvj@... Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 08:35:35 -0500 Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Ambroid 8 Hatch Reefer   Hi Reed, I found a photo of the completed model in Model Railroader Trade Topics of August 1964, but I never found an Ambroid ad for one of these.  The Trade Topics photo does indeed show the door as Boxcar Red and the roof as silver.  Many reefers back then used silver insulating paint on the roofs.  The MKT/Katy Sloan Yellow reefers and boxcars also had silver roofs. I will be repainting the door to BCR.  I will need to carefully match the color.  GROAN!!! Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com CC: estabrook@... From: estabrook@... Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 20:29:42 -0500 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Ambroid 8 Hatch Reefer   Vic - I have one of these too - the roof is silver, the doors are BCR.  However, I was planning to repaint the roof BCR also, after looking through my Canadian National Color Guide - It doesn't show this exact car, but other wood cars of the same era were all BCR, including the doors. Reed -----Original Message----- From: bitlerisvj <bitlerisvj@...> To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Mon, Jan 31, 2011 12:22 pm Subject: [vintageHO] Ambroid 8 Hatch Reefer   Hi folks, A couple of friends and I went to a train show in Wilmington (NC) this past weekend and I picked up a couple of goodies, DIRT CHEAP. Cars for 3 and 4 dollars a piece. A couple of cars had either Kadee or Central Valley trucks, so they paid for themselves right there. But the cars are keepers, so with a bit of clean up, they are already on the tracks. One car I picked up for 3 dollars was an already assembled Ambroid 8 hatch CP reefer. The paint was really pretty decent as was the construction, so this one is not going into the dunk tank. Besides it could be a problem getting decals and they are in decent shape. I just need to put on some decal solvent and get em to snuggle down a bit better. There are a few roof ribs missing as well as some underframe cross members. The underframe will be a piece of cake to fix. I will also add on all the brake piping, since the underframe will be repainted. The roof ribs are easily fabricated from .020 styrene. In fact, I am almost done. The reason the ribs got lost is the person that assembled this actually used Ambroid cement, so the rest of the ribs pretty much fell off with very little prodding. I will rebuild and repaint the roof also. Now I come to my question for anyone that knows. The builder painted the reefer side doors and tracks silver. I know the roof is suppose d to be silver, because I have an unbuilt kit, but for some reason, I expected the door to be the car side color, boxcar red. If the door is prototypically correct, I will leave it, otherwise if someone can tell me what it should be, I will be happy to repaint. Thanks and regards, Vic Bitleris

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16039	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 2/11/2011
Subject: Re: Ambroid 8 Hatch Reefer

Hi Richard, You can always pick one up on evilBay.  I think they are going at decent prices.  I don't see one out there now, but keep looking, I am sure there will be one out there. I did not read the review until after I started consruction, but didn't fall prey to the problem.  I centered the door to start with and cut out the small notches on the bottom of the siding per the instructions.  After that was done, I cut the sides to length, with one or two board widths too long for later adjustment.  I also varied from the instructions a bit and completed the floor and end assembly before doing the sides.  I installed the sides using the roof as a guide, but have not glued on the roof yet.  As the review stated, do a few other Ambroid models before tackling this one.  The instructions are not that great (not too bad either) and the biggest problem is there are no full size drawings.  I used a copier to enlarge the roof so I could get the spacings proper.  I didn't feel like extrapolating all of the dimensions with computations. Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageho@yahoogroups.com From: toytrain13@... Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 08:46:00 -0800 Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Ambroid 8 Hatch Reefer   Hi Reed- I built one of these 8-hatch reefers back in 1965. I found an error in the instructions regarding triming the siding adjacent to the doors (this was also pointed out in the MR review), necessitating filling in with a small piece of wood at each door. I regret selling this car in the 80's. Regards- Richard White   To: vintageho@yahoogroups.com From: bitlerisvj@... Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 08:35:35 -0500 Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Ambroid 8 Hatch Reefer   Hi Reed, I found a photo of the completed model in Model Railroader Trade Topics of August 1964, but I never found an Ambroid ad for one of these.  The Trade Topics photo does indeed show the door as Boxcar Red and the roof as silver.  Many reefers back then used silver insulating paint on the roofs.  The MKT/Katy Sloan Yellow reefers and boxcars also had silver roofs. I will be repainting the door to BCR.  I will need to carefully match the color.  GROAN!!! Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com CC: estabrook@... From: estabrook@... Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 20:29:42 -0500 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Ambroid 8 Hatch Reefer   Vic - I have one of these too - the roof is silver, the doors are BCR.  However, I was planning to repaint the roof BCR also, after looking through my Canadian National Color Guide - It doesn't show this exact car, but other wood cars of the same era were all BCR, including the doors. Reed -----Original Message----- From: bitlerisvj <bitlerisvj@...> To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Mon, Jan 31, 2011 12:22 pm Subject: [vintageHO] Ambroid 8 Hatch Reefer   Hi folks, A couple of friends and I went to a train show in Wilmington (NC) this past weekend and I picked up a couple of goodies, DIRT CHEAP. Cars for 3 and 4 dollars a piece. A couple of cars had either Kadee or Central Valley trucks, so they paid for themselves right there. But the cars are keepers, so with a bit of clean up, they are already on the tracks. One car I picked up for 3 dollars was an already assembled Ambroid 8 hatch CP reefer. The paint was really pretty decent as was the construction, so this one is not going into the dunk tank. Besides it could be a problem getting decals and they are in decent shape. I just need to put on some decal solvent and get em to snuggle down a bit better. There are a few roof ribs missing as well as some underframe cross members. The underframe will be a piece of cake to fix. I will also add on all the brake piping, since the underframe will be repainted. The roof ribs are easily fabricated from .020 styrene. In fact, I am almost done. The reason the ribs got lost is the person that assembled this actually used Ambroid cement, so the rest of the ribs pretty much fell off with very little prodding. I will rebuild and repaint the roof also. Now I come to my question for anyone that knows. The builder painted the reefer side doors and tracks silver. I know the roof is suppose d to be silver, because I have an unbuilt kit, but for some reason, I expected the door to be the car side color, boxcar red. If the door is prototypically correct, I will leave it, otherwise if someone can tell me what it should be, I will be happy to repaint. Thanks and regards, Vic Bitleris

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16040	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 2/11/2011
Subject: Plastic Varney question

I have several Varney plastic 2-bay hoppers. Trying to sort in my mind something with underframes. When did Varney go from a long, narrow cast frame to a blob-shaped unit that extended sideways out between the chutes? I have both styles. Thanks. Dave

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16041	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 2/11/2011
Subject: It's a morgue around here.....

Anyway, 'nother question. The two express reefers I picked up have Mantua-type couplers, except they are more than twice as wide as a standard Mantua. The depth is the same, hook and lift pin the same, looks like they were designed to allow extreme swing of long passenger cars on curves. Who made them? Thanks. Dave

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16042	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 2/11/2011
Subject: Re: It's a morgue around here.....

Mantua made 'em. You are correct, Mantua made the standard freight loops, and the wider passenger loops, with various exact ways of mounting them to the car floor (some used a longer shank, some had a narrow shank for more pivot room, and pockets varied as well. Are the handiest thing on longer coaches and 22" radius curves! -Steve Neubaum --- On Fri, 2/11/11, trainsnwrcs <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: From: trainsnwrcs <idioticyahoo@...> Subject: [vintageHO] It's a morgue around here..... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, February 11, 2011, 7:37 PM   Anyway, 'nother question. The two express reefers I picked up have Mantua-type couplers, except they are more than twice as wide as a standard Mantua. The depth is the same, hook and lift pin the same, looks like they were designed to allow extreme swing of long passenger cars on curves. Who made them? Thanks. Dave

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16043	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 2/11/2011
Subject: Re: It's a morgue around here.....

All these decades, never seen them. Looks like they'd do the job. Dave > Mantua made 'em. You are correct, Mantua made the standard freight loops, and the wider passenger loops, with various exact ways of mounting them to the car floor (some used a longer shank, some had a narrow shank for more pivot room, and pockets varied as well. > > Are the handiest thing on longer coaches and 22" radius curves! > > -Steve Neubaum > > --- On Fri, 2/11/11, trainsnwrcs <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: > > From: trainsnwrcs <idioticyahoo@...> > Subject: [vintageHO] It's a morgue around here..... > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, February 11, 2011, 7:37 PM > > > > > > > >   > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, 'nother question. > > The two express reefers I picked up have Mantua-type couplers, except they are more than twice as wide as a standard Mantua. > > The depth is the same, hook and lift pin the same, looks like they were designed to allow extreme swing of long passenger cars on curves. > > Who made them? > > > > Thanks. > > Dave >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16044	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/12/2011
Subject: JC cardside car

Attachments : MNR 5067.jpg Got the combine built, and made a discovery. I went to compare it with my JC NYC coach and discovered that a bunch of the JC's that I got a while back from another member were card too and I never realized it! It was a "Doh!" moment. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery

@@attachment@@

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16045	From: My-Yahoo-Groups	Date: 2/12/2011
Subject: Re: JC cardside car [1 Attachment]

Wow, Don, that is one great looking car! but do I see a hair sticking on one window? ;-) Just kidding! (about the hair)   Steve W. www.prrh.org www.marx-trains.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Don Dellmann To: VintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 7:29 AM Subject: [vintageHO] JC cardside car [1 Attachment]   Got the combine built, and made a discovery. I went to compare it with my JC NYC coach and discovered that a bunch of the JC's that I got a while back from another member were card too and I never realized it! It was a "Doh!" moment. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16046	From: corlissbs@aol.com	Date: 2/12/2011
Subject: A Very Old Vintage Club

While this is not HO, I found it very interesting.  Last evening, our club visited the Milwaukee Union Terminal, 0-scale model railroad club.  It is the oldest model railroad club still in it's original location. Formed in 1934, with the help of Phil Walthers, the club is in an old commuter railroad station that is built into the lower level of a railroad underpass, given to them on a 99 year lease by The Milwaukee Road, who was happy to help the club.  The station was abandoned in 1930.  The layout was built in 1936 as outside third rail, but was changed to two rail in the 1950's.   It was nice to see locomotive and cars built in the 1930's still running, with their original motors.  Locomotives and car kits from Walthers, such as a Milwaukee Road Hiawatha, which was released the same year as the full sized Hiawatha!  And with controls that are built from WW2 surplus parts.  A very interesting evening, indeed.   Brad Smith Franklin, WI

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16047	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/12/2011
Subject: Re: JC cardside car

There are one or two minor screwups but I'll never tell. :-) Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "My-Yahoo-Groups" <yahoo-groups@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 7:01 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] JC cardside car Wow, Don, that is one great looking car! but do I see a hair sticking on one window? ;-) Just kidding! (about the hair) Steve W. www.prrh.org www.marx-trains.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Don Dellmann To: VintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 7:29 AM Subject: [vintageHO] JC cardside car [1 Attachment] [Attachment(s) from Don Dellmann included below] Got the combine built, and made a discovery. I went to compare it with my JC NYC coach and discovered that a bunch of the JC's that I got a while back from another member were card too and I never realized it! It was a "Doh!" moment. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16048	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/12/2011
Subject: Re: A Very Old Vintage Club

----- Original Message ----- From: <corlissbs@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 7:31 AM Subject: [vintageHO] A Very Old Vintage Club > While this is not HO, I found it very interesting. Last evening, our > club > visited the Milwaukee Union Terminal, 0-scale model railroad club. It is > the oldest model railroad club still in it's original location. Formed in > 1934, with the help of Phil Walthers, the club is in an old commuter > railroad > station that is built into the lower level of a railroad underpass, given > to them on a 99 year lease by The Milwaukee Road, who was happy to help > the > club. The station was abandoned in 1930. The layout was built in 1936 > as outside third rail, but was changed to two rail in the 1950's. > > It was nice to see locomotive and cars built in the 1930's still running, > with their original motors. Locomotives and car kits from Walthers, such > as a Milwaukee Road Hiawatha, which was released the same year as the full > sized Hiawatha! And with controls that are built from WW2 surplus parts. > A > very interesting evening, indeed. > > Brad Smith > Franklin, WI While I know some of the guys, and I've known about the club for probably 50 years, I've never actually visited. I've got to get down there one day. It was sad a year ago when Indianhead went under (the HO club behind Walthers), that club was around since the late 40's, and for a time in the 70's I was not only a member but club President! (At the time they moved from 16th. St. down to Kinnikinnic). Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16049	From: al45390	Date: 2/12/2011
Subject: Re: JC cardside car

Great job! It looks good. And I didn't know about JC card side cars either. Regards, Walter --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > Got the combine built, and made a discovery. I went to compare it with my > JC NYC coach and discovered that a bunch of the JC's that I got a while back > from another member were card too and I never realized it! It was a "Doh!" > moment. > > Don > > Don Dellmann > don.dellmann@... > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ > http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction > Owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16050	From: corlissbs@aol.com	Date: 2/12/2011
Subject: Re: A Very Old Vintage Club

Yes, I remember our club visiting Indian Head Lines.  It to was a great layout.   Brad

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16051	From: John H	Date: 2/12/2011
Subject: Re: A Very Old Vintage Club

Hopefully that will be some time in the distant future but one never knows. To anyone who has never viewed this museum of model railroad history I recommend that you get there. It was never intended to be a museum but that is what it has become. This is not saying that the members do not upgrade but even just the amount of work required to keep it together, operating and looking decent is a big order. This is a truly interesting place to visit. The members are friendly and, like most model rails, only too happy to show anyone around. They are normally open on the third Friday evenings and last Sunday afternoon of each month. Their work night is on Monday and visitors are normally welcome then too but the last Monday may be a meeting night. Also, during the colder months they tend to stay in the office/meeting room/work room to save on heating costs. The two rooms that contain the layout are pretty large and take some major BTU's keep warm. BTW, there is an old TMER&L fare box hanging on the wall and works great for accepting donations. BTW Don, I was president of this club for a period. John Hagen --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <corlissbs@...> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 7:31 AM > Subject: [vintageHO] A Very Old Vintage Club > > > > While this is not HO, I found it very interesting. Last evening, our > > club > > visited the Milwaukee Union Terminal, 0-scale model railroad club. It is > > the oldest model railroad club still in it's original location. Formed in > > 1934, with the help of Phil Walthers, the club is in an old commuter > > railroad > > station that is built into the lower level of a railroad underpass, given > > to them on a 99 year lease by The Milwaukee Road, who was happy to help > > the > > club. The station was abandoned in 1930. The layout was built in 1936 > > as outside third rail, but was changed to two rail in the 1950's. > > > > It was nice to see locomotive and cars built in the 1930's still running, > > with their original motors. Locomotives and car kits from Walthers, such > > as a Milwaukee Road Hiawatha, which was released the same year as the full > > sized Hiawatha! And with controls that are built from WW2 surplus parts. > > A > > very interesting evening, indeed. > > > > Brad Smith > > Franklin, WI > > While I know some of the guys, and I've known about the club for probably 50 > years, I've never actually visited. I've got to get down there one day. > > It was sad a year ago when Indianhead went under (the HO club behind > Walthers), that club was around since the late 40's, and for a time in the > 70's I was not only a member but club President! (At the time they moved > from 16th. St. down to Kinnikinnic). > > Don > > > Don Dellmann > don.dellmann@... > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ > http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction > Owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16052	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 2/12/2011
Subject: Re: Plastic Varney question

Dave, The change in Varney's hopper frames came in late 1954. Ray F. W.</HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16053	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 2/12/2011
Subject: Re: Plastic Varney question

Ah, HA! Thanks! I do believe I like the long narrow frames a whole lot better than the blobs. Dave > Dave, > > The change in Varney's hopper frames came in late 1954. > > Ray F. W.</HTML> >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16054	From: Glenn	Date: 2/12/2011
Subject: Re: It's a morgue around here.....

sounds like Mantua passenger car couplers. gj -----Original Message----- From: trainsnwrcs Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 5:37 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] It's a morgue around here..... Anyway, 'nother question. The two express reefers I picked up have Mantua-type couplers, except they are more than twice as wide as a standard Mantua. The depth is the same, hook and lift pin the same, looks like they were designed to allow extreme swing of long passenger cars on curves. Who made them? Thanks. Dave ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16055	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 2/13/2011
Subject: Mantua 1952 Pacific Kit

Hey, guys, I have a Mantua Pacific kit from 1952. It's a cast job with no degeneration and with just about the fanciest box I've seen that takes me back to the Fifties and those high school yearbooks with the padded covers for seniors. The box has a "hinged" top with a padded blue cover embossed with palm trees representing the "pacific" I guess. My question is this: Did Mantua come out with a Premier Series at the time or what? It's a generally beautifully packaged and complete kit that I would like to sell and am trying to determine a price for eBay. I did a bit of research and determined that '52 must have been a big year for Mantua.   Art W

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16056	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 2/13/2011
Subject: Re: Mantua 1952 Pacific Kit

Following up on my question I double checked the literature on the slick paper (including the small pamphlet that they included as a catalog) and there was no mention of a special series, but it seems unusual to package the kits so expensively only 7 years after WWII when some were still shipping stuff in plain cardboard.  They musta been on a roll!   In a message dated 2/13/2011 2:46:24 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, luvprr@... writes: Hey, guys, I have a Mantua Pacific kit from 1952. It's a cast job with no degeneration and with just about the fanciest box I've seen that takes me back to the Fifties and those high school yearbooks with the padded covers for seniors. The box has a "hinged" top with a padded blue cover embossed with palm trees representing the "pacific" I guess. My question is this: Did Mantua come out with a Premier Series at the time or what? It's a generally beautifully packaged and complete kit that I would like to sell and am trying to determine a price for eBay. I did a bit of research and determined that '52 must have been a big year for Mantua.   Art W

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16057	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 2/13/2011
Subject: Re: Mantua 1952 Pacific Kit

Hello Art, As far as I know, that was standard packaging for their Pacific & Mikado locomotive kits of that time. It is tough to say since I have no pictures to look at. Sean   1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! From: "luvprr@..." <luvprr@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, February 13, 2011 3:13:11 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Mantua 1952 Pacific Kit   Following up on my question I double checked the literature on the slick paper (including the small pamphlet that they included as a catalog) and there was no mention of a special series, but it seems unusual to package the kits so expensively only 7 years after WWII when some were still shipping stuff in plain cardboard.  They musta been on a roll!   In a message dated 2/13/2011 2:46:24 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, luvprr@... writes: Hey, guys, I have a Mantua Pacific kit from 1952. It's a cast job with no degeneration and with just about the fanciest box I've seen that takes me back to the Fifties and those high school yearbooks with the padded covers for seniors. The box has a "hinged" top with a padded blue cover embossed with palm trees representing the "pacific" I guess. My question is this: Did Mantua come out with a Premier Series at the time or what? It's a generally beautifully packaged and complete kit that I would like to sell and am trying to determine a price for eBay. I did a bit of research and determined that '52 must have been a big year for Mantua.   Art W

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16058	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 2/13/2011
Subject: Re: Plastic Varney question

The blobs tend to suffer from the zimax rot and expand, resulting in a flaring of the bottom of the hopper car, at the center. Sean   1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! From: trainsnwrcs <idioticyahoo@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, February 12, 2011 6:51:26 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Plastic Varney question   Ah, HA! Thanks! I do believe I like the long narrow frames a whole lot better than the blobs. Dave > Dave, > > The change in Varney's hopper frames came in late 1954. > > Ray F. W.</HTML> > Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16059	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 2/13/2011
Subject: Re: Plastic Varney question

Haven't had them push out the sides, but expand, yes, and pushed down, and broken. > The blobs tend to suffer from the zimax rot and expand, resulting in a flaring > of the bottom of the hopper car, at the center. > > Sean > > 1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! > > > > > ________________________________ > From: trainsnwrcs <idioticyahoo@...> > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sat, February 12, 2011 6:51:26 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Plastic Varney question > > > Ah, HA! > Thanks! > I do believe I like the long narrow frames a whole lot better than the blobs. > > Dave > > > Dave, > > > > The change in Varney's hopper frames came in late 1954. > > > > Ray F. W.</HTML> > > > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > 8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time > with the Yahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut. > http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/#news >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16060	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 2/13/2011
Subject: Re: Mantua 1952 Pacific Kit

I have one of those original boxes for a Mikado. > Hello Art, > As far as I know, that was standard packaging for their Pacific & Mikado > locomotive kits of that time. It is tough to say since I have no pictures to > look at. > > Sean > > 1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! > > > > > ________________________________ > From: "luvprr@..." <luvprr@...> > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sun, February 13, 2011 3:13:11 PM > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Mantua 1952 Pacific Kit > > > Following up on my question I double checked the literature on the slick > paper (including the small pamphlet that they included as a catalog) and there > was no mention of a special series, but it seems unusual to package the kits so > expensively only 7 years after WWII when some were still shipping stuff in > plain cardboard. They musta been on a roll! > > In a message dated 2/13/2011 2:46:24 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, luvprr@... > writes: > > > > >Hey, guys, I have a Mantua Pacific kit from 1952. It's a cast job with no > >degeneration and with just about the fanciest box I've seen that takes me back > >to the Fifties and those high school yearbooks with the padded covers for > >seniors. The box has a "hinged" top with a padded blue cover embossed with > >palm trees representing the "pacific" I guess. My question is this: Did Mantua > >come out with a Premier Series at the time or what? It's a generally > >beautifully packaged and complete kit that I would like to sell and am trying > >to determine a price for eBay. I did a bit of research and determined that > >'52 must have been a big year for Mantua. > > > >Art W >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16061	From: leetrains	Date: 2/14/2011
Subject: varney book

Thought of interest to the group. Lee <http://cgi.ebay.com/Model-Locomotives-Rolling-Stock-PB-1948-Gordon-Varney-/270704264689?pt=US_Nonfiction_Book&hash=item3f073b45f1> ebay item# 270704264689 Model Locomotives & Rolling Stock PB 1948 Gordon Varney

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16062	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 2/14/2011
Subject: Re: Ambroid 8 Hatch Reefer

There is one on eBay right now, going for $9.95 at the moment.  The auction end on Feb. 20. http://cgi.ebay.com/Ambroid-Canadian-Pacific-8-hatch-reefer-K14-kit-NIB-/400195220747?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item5d2d7e750b Good luck and regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageho@yahoogroups.com From: toytrain13@... Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 08:46:00 -0800 Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Ambroid 8 Hatch Reefer   Hi Reed- I built one of these 8-hatch reefers back in 1965. I found an error in the instructions regarding triming the siding adjacent to the doors (this was also pointed out in the MR review), necessitating filling in with a small piece of wood at each door. I regret selling this car in the 80's. Regards- Richard White   To: vintageho@yahoogroups.com From: bitlerisvj@... Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 08:35:35 -0500 Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Ambroid 8 Hatch Reefer   Hi Reed, I found a photo of the completed model in Model Railroader Trade Topics of August 1964, but I never found an Ambroid ad for one of these.  The Trade Topics photo does indeed show the door as Boxcar Red and the roof as silver.  Many reefers back then used silver insulating paint on the roofs.  The MKT/Katy Sloan Yellow reefers and boxcars also had silver roofs. I will be repainting the door to BCR.  I will need to carefully match the color.  GROAN!!! Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com CC: estabrook@... From: estabrook@... Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 20:29:42 -0500 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Ambroid 8 Hatch Reefer   Vic - I have one of these too - the roof is silver, the doors are BCR.  However, I was planning to repaint the roof BCR also, after looking through my Canadian National Color Guide - It doesn't show this exact car, but other wood cars of the same era were all BCR, including the doors. Reed -----Original Message----- From: bitlerisvj <bitlerisvj@...> To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Mon, Jan 31, 2011 12:22 pm Subject: [vintageHO] Ambroid 8 Hatch Reefer   Hi folks, A couple of friends and I went to a train show in Wilmington (NC) this past weekend and I picked up a couple of goodies, DIRT CHEAP. Cars for 3 and 4 dollars a piece. A couple of cars had either Kadee or Central Valley trucks, so they paid for themselves right there. But the cars are keepers, so with a bit of clean up, they are already on the tracks. One car I picked up for 3 dollars was an already assembled Ambroid 8 hatch CP reefer. The paint was really pretty decent as was the construction, so this one is not going into the dunk tank. Besides it could be a problem getting decals and they are in decent shape. I just need to put on some decal solvent and get em to snuggle down a bit better. There are a few roof ribs missing as well as some underframe cross members. The underframe will be a piece of cake to fix. I will also add on all the brake piping, since the underframe will be repainted. The roof ribs are easily fabricated from .020 styrene. In fact, I am almost done. The reason the ribs got lost is the person that assembled this actually used Ambroid cement, so the rest of the ribs pretty much fell off with very little prodding. I will rebuild and repaint the roof also. Now I come to my question for anyone that knows. The builder painted the reefer side doors and tracks silver. I know the roof is suppose d to be silver, because I have an unbuilt kit, but for some reason, I expected the door to be the car side color, boxcar red. If the door is prototypically correct, I will leave it, otherwise if someone can tell me what it should be, I will be happy to repaint. Thanks and regards, Vic Bitleris

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16063	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/14/2011
Subject: Re: varney book

----- Original Message ----- From: "leetrains" <leetrains@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, February 14, 2011 8:25 AM Subject: [vintageHO] varney book > Thought of interest to the group. Lee > > <http://cgi.ebay.com/Model-Locomotives-Rolling-Stock-PB-1948-Gordon-Varney-/270704264689?pt=US_Nonfiction_Book&hash=item3f073b45f1> > > ebay item# > 270704264689 > > > Model Locomotives & Rolling Stock PB 1948 Gordon Varney It would be but I already have a copy :-) Don

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16064	From: Robert	Date: 2/14/2011
Subject: Athearn 4-6-2

I have an old Atheran 4-6-2 that has wires to connect to the tender. I need a diagram that shows how the wiring is to connect Could not find one at Hoseekers Also need the pilot Can any one help? Thanks, Robert

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16065	From: Richard White	Date: 2/14/2011
Subject: Re: Ambroid 8 Hatch Reefer

Thanks, Vic! I'll keep my eye on this. It's up to $11.50 now. Regards- Richard White, Moraga, CA   To: vintageho@yahoogroups.com From: bitlerisvj@... Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 15:09:22 -0500 Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Ambroid 8 Hatch Reefer   There is one on eBay right now, going for $9.95 at the moment.  The auction end on Feb. 20. http://cgi.ebay.com/Ambroid-Canadian-Pacific-8-hatch-reefer-K14-kit-NIB-/400195220747?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item5d2d7e750b Good luck and regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageho@yahoogroups.com From: toytrain13@... Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 08:46:00 -0800 Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Ambroid 8 Hatch Reefer   Hi Reed- I built one of these 8-hatch reefers back in 1965. I found an error in the instructions regarding triming the siding adjacent to the doors (this was also pointed out in the MR review), necessitating filling in with a small piece of wood at each door. I regret selling this car in the 80's. Regards- Richard White   To: vintageho@yahoogroups.com From: bitlerisvj@... Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 08:35:35 -0500 Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Ambroid 8 Hatch Reefer   Hi Reed, I found a photo of the completed model in Model Railroader Trade Topics of August 1964, but I never found an Ambroid ad for one of these.  The Trade Topics photo does indeed show the door as Boxcar Red and the roof as silver.  Many reefers back then used silver insulating paint on the roofs.  The MKT/Katy Sloan Yellow reefers and boxcars also had silver roofs. I will be repainting the door to BCR.  I will need to carefully match the color.  GROAN!!! Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com CC: estabrook@... From: estabrook@... Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 20:29:42 -0500 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Ambroid 8 Hatch Reefer   Vic - I have one of these too - the roof is silver, the doors are BCR.  However, I was planning to repaint the roof BCR also, after looking through my Canadian National Color Guide - It doesn't show this exact car, but other wood cars of the same era were all BCR, including the doors. Reed -----Original Message----- From: bitlerisvj <bitlerisvj@...> To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Mon, Jan 31, 2011 12:22 pm Subject: [vintageHO] Ambroid 8 Hatch Reefer   Hi folks, A couple of friends and I went to a train show in Wilmington (NC) this past weekend and I picked up a couple of goodies, DIRT CHEAP. Cars for 3 and 4 dollars a piece. A couple of cars had either Kadee or Central Valley trucks, so they paid for themselves right there. But the cars are keepers, so with a bit of clean up, they are already on the tracks. One car I picked up for 3 dollars was an already assembled Ambroid 8 hatch CP reefer. The paint was really pretty decent as was the construction, so this one is not going into the dunk tank. Besides it could be a problem getting decals and they are in decent shape. I just need to put on some decal solvent and get em to snuggle down a bit better. There are a few roof ribs missing as well as some underframe cross members. The underframe will be a piece of cake to fix. I will also add on all the brake piping, since the underframe will be repainted. The roof ribs are easily fabricated from .020 styrene. In fact, I am almost done. The reason the ribs got lost is the person that assembled this actually used Ambroid cement, so the rest of the ribs pretty much fell off with very little prodding. I will rebuild and repaint the roof also. Now I come to my question for anyone that knows. The builder painted the reefer side doors and tracks silver. I know the roof is suppose d to be silver, because I have an unbuilt kit, but for some reason, I expected the door to be the car side color, boxcar red. If the door is prototypically correct, I will leave it, otherwise if someone can tell me what it should be, I will be happy to repaint. Thanks and regards, Vic Bitleris

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16066	From: toytrain13	Date: 2/14/2011
Subject: Silver Streak Pacific Electric Caboose

Hello guys- I have a box of parts for the #S118-475 Pacific Electric caboose kit. The roof section is from another SS caboose (it'll have to be trimmed, I presume). Since there are no instructions with the kit, I'm at a loss as to what the side elevation should look like. The sides pieces indicate that a section is to be trimmed out as "waste." I've been to HOSeeker but there is no literature for this caboose. Can anyone provide me with a scan that shows what I need? I do have generic SS instructions. Thanks, Richard White

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16067	From: Donald R. Staton	Date: 2/14/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2

Two wires from the motor slip into a snap in connection, one on each side of the front of the tender.  The tender wheels must be cleaned as the tender is the source of power pick up.  Clean the brass connections before you slip them into place.  If you have power continuity problems, remove the tender body...  Loosen and remove the brass clips that the locomotive wires snap into...  Clean the metal on the tender base and the brass clips where the clips are screwed into place...  Remove the trucks and clean the bearing areas on the base and the trucks.  What I mean by clean is to remove all dull corrosion to a shiny finish. Pilots are hard to come by.  I hope someone in the group has one for you. Happy railroading...  Don Staton in VA. ============================================================================================ On 2/14/2011 6:41 PM, Robert wrote:   I have an old Atheran 4-6-2 that has wires to connect to the tender. I need a diagram that shows how the wiring is to connect Could not find one at Hoseekers Also need the pilot Can any one help? Thanks, Robert

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16068	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 2/14/2011
Subject: Re: Silver Streak Pacific Electric Caboose

I don't have one, but the following may help http://cgi.ebay.com/Very-rare-Silver-Streak-Pacific-Electric-wood-caboose-/250770737936?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item3a6319cb10 It's not much, but does show the car side. Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: toytrain13@... Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2011 00:24:19 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Silver Streak Pacific Electric Caboose   Hello guys- I have a box of parts for the #S118-475 Pacific Electric caboose kit. The roof section is from another SS caboose (it'll have to be trimmed, I presume). Since there are no instructions with the kit, I'm at a loss as to what the side elevation should look like. The sides pieces indicate that a section is to be trimmed out as "waste." I've been to HOSeeker but there is no literature for this caboose. Can anyone provide me with a scan that shows what I need? I do have generic SS instructions. Thanks, Richard White

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16069	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 2/14/2011
Subject: Re: Silver Streak Pacific Electric Caboose

Very complete, eh? I thought all SS cars came with trucks and couplers. No wonder the box is open. > > I don't have one, but the following may help > http://cgi.ebay.com/Very-rare-Silver-Streak-Pacific-Electric-wood-caboose-/250770737936?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item3a6319cb10 > It's not much, but does show the car side. > Regards, > Vic Bitleris > Raleigh, NC > > > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > From: toytrain13@... > Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2011 00:24:19 +0000 > Subject: [vintageHO] Silver Streak Pacific Electric Caboose > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello guys- I have a box of parts for the #S118-475 Pacific Electric caboose kit. The roof section is from another SS caboose (it'll have to be trimmed, I presume). Since there are no instructions with the kit, I'm at a loss as to what the side elevation should look like. The sides pieces indicate that a section is to be trimmed out as "waste." I've been to HOSeeker but there is no literature for this caboose. Can anyone provide me with a scan that shows what I need? I do have generic SS instructions. Thanks, Richard White >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16070	From: Rick Jones	Date: 2/14/2011
Subject: Re: Silver Streak Pacific Electric Caboose

On 2/14/2011 9:34 PM, trainsnwrcs wrote: > > Very complete, eh? I thought all SS cars came with trucks and couplers. No wonder the box is open. >> >> I don't have one, but the following may help >> http://cgi.ebay.com/Very-rare-Silver-Streak-Pacific-Electric-wood-caboose-/250770737936?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item3a6319cb10 >> It's not much, but does show the car side. Oh no way. No way at all. I'm no expert but based on the kits that I have I'd say trucks and couplers appear to have been included in the early years but were dropped or made optional in the later years. Afraid I can't define "early" and "later" as far as any timeline goes. -- Rick Jones "You're the disease. I'm the cure." -Cobra, "Cobra"

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16071	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 2/14/2011
Subject: Re: Silver Streak Pacific Electric Caboose

Funny, every one I have ever had has included a yellow box with trucks, box says "Silver Streak", and couplers and coupler boxes. Not going to argue the point, other than to say, so far, every one. NOT Walthers or Ye Olde Huff n Puff ownership. > Oh no way. No way at all. I'm no expert but based on the kits that I > have I'd say trucks and couplers appear to have been included in the > early years but were dropped or made optional in the later years. Afraid > I can't define "early" and "later" as far as any timeline goes. > > -- > > Rick Jones > > "You're the disease. I'm the cure." > -Cobra, "Cobra" >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16072	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 2/14/2011
Subject: Cast 2-bay hopper ident

I've had this for at least 25 years, old when I got it. I decided to put the slope sheets in tonight (they were cardboard and shot). I had previously glass-beaded, filed and painted the body, so I used some .040" black styrene, filed to fit, and glued into place. But: This bugger is heavy. It is an extended-sdie 2-bay, flat-topped unit. The floor and chutes are one piece, cannot tell if the sides and ends are 4 separate pieces or not. There is a square cross-section rin along the bottom of the inside of the side walls for the floor piece to butt up against. Casting quality is poor. Took a lot of fill and file work on the extended sides to get the voids out. I still have ladders/grabs to install, corner grabs are in. Not Ulrich, Varney, MDC/Roundhouse, Walthers, hard to say, since they don't want old catalogs published, not Red Ball, doesn't appear to be Mantua. Any ideas, or do we need a photo? Thanks. Dave

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16073	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Re: Silver Streak Pacific Electric Caboose

Ca. 1970 they still were included. I will try at work today to see if I can blow up the small picture of the finished car I have in Walthers' catalog from that year and scan it, I'll post it tionight if it works out halfway decent. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rick Jones" <r.t.jones@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, February 14, 2011 10:13 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Silver Streak Pacific Electric Caboose > On 2/14/2011 9:34 PM, trainsnwrcs wrote: >> >> Very complete, eh? I thought all SS cars came with trucks and couplers. >> No wonder the box is open. >>> >>> I don't have one, but the following may help >>> http://cgi.ebay.com/Very-rare-Silver-Streak-Pacific-Electric-wood-caboose-/250770737936?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item3a6319cb10 >>> It's not much, but does show the car side. > > Oh no way. No way at all. I'm no expert but based on the kits that I > have I'd say trucks and couplers appear to have been included in the > early years but were dropped or made optional in the later years. Afraid > I can't define "early" and "later" as far as any timeline goes. > > -- > > Rick Jones > > "You're the disease. I'm the cure." > -Cobra, "Cobra" > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16074	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Re: Cast 2-bay hopper ident

----- Original Message ----- From: "trainsnwrcs" <idioticyahoo@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2011 12:20 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Cast 2-bay hopper ident > I've had this for at least 25 years, old when I got it. > I decided to put the slope sheets in tonight (they were cardboard and > shot). > I had previously glass-beaded, filed and painted the body, so I used some > .040" black styrene, filed to fit, and glued into place. > > But: > > This bugger is heavy. > It is an extended-sdie 2-bay, flat-topped unit. > The floor and chutes are one piece, cannot tell if the sides and ends are > 4 separate pieces or not. > There is a square cross-section rin along the bottom of the inside of the > side walls for the floor piece to butt up against. > Casting quality is poor. > Took a lot of fill and file work on the extended sides to get the voids > out. > I still have ladders/grabs to install, corner grabs are in. > > Not Ulrich, Varney, MDC/Roundhouse, Walthers, hard to say, since they > don't want old catalogs published, not Red Ball, doesn't appear to be > Mantua. > Any ideas, or do we need a photo? > > Thanks. > Dave Moderator hat ON. I always repeat this, WHENEVER we have a "what is this?" type question, photos are ALWAYS helpful. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16075	From: Wally Weart	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Re: Silver Streak Pacific Electric Caboose

I have a SS PE caboose that I bought from eBay and it did not have trucks or couplers. I have purchased a number SS kits over the years at flea markets and estate sales and do not recall one having trucks and couplers. I'll look at my PE caboose to see if a picture of it would help. Wally Weart

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16076	From: Richard White	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Re: Silver Streak Pacific Electric Caboose

Thanks Don! -Richard   To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: don.dellmann@... Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2011 07:36:47 -0600 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Silver Streak Pacific Electric Caboose   Ca. 1970 they still were included. I will try at work today to see if I can blow up the small picture of the finished car I have in Walthers' catalog from that year and scan it, I'll post it tionight if it works out halfway decent. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rick Jones" <r.t.jones@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, February 14, 2011 10:13 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Silver Streak Pacific Electric Caboose > On 2/14/2011 9:34 PM, trainsnwrcs wrote: >> >> Very complete, eh? I thought all SS cars came with trucks and couplers. >> No wonder the box is open. >>> >>> I don't have one, but the following may help >>> http://cgi.ebay.com/Very-rare-Silver-Streak-Pacific-Electric-wood-caboose-/250770737936?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item3a6319cb10 >>> It's not much, but does show the car side. > > Oh no way. No way at all. I'm no expert but based on the kits that I > have I'd say trucks and couplers appear to have been included in the > early years but were dropped or made optional in the later years. Afraid > I can't define "early" and "later" as far as any timeline goes. > > -- > > Rick Jones > > "You're the disease. I'm the cure." > -Cobra, "Cobra" > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16077	From: Richard White	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Re: Silver Streak Pacific Electric Caboose

Thanks, Wally. I photo of your caboose would really help me.  Regards- Richard   To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: dim01521@... Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2011 07:42:31 -0700 Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Silver Streak Pacific Electric Caboose   I have a SS PE caboose that I bought from eBay and it did not have trucks or couplers. I have purchased a number SS kits over the years at flea markets and estate sales and do not recall one having trucks and couplers. I'll look at my PE caboose to see if a picture of it would help. Wally Weart

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16078	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Re: Silver Streak Pacific Electric Caboose

I agree the early Silver Streak all had trucks ( I used Kadees, so didn't care about the couplers), but I did notice that in the later years, before Ye Old Huff N Puff, the Silver Streak boxes did seem to drop the trucks.  I have a few without trucks.  I did notice that the Huff N Puff stuff is lower quality than the Silver Streak and a bit higher priced.  The lettering on a  Budweiser reefer I bought rubbed off before the car was even built.  Try to find the Budweiser lettering for the green car these days, it is practically impossible.  I repainted it yellow and will letter it Heinz 57. Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: r.t.jones@... Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 22:13:00 -0600 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Silver Streak Pacific Electric Caboose   On 2/14/2011 9:34 PM, trainsnwrcs wrote: > > Very complete, eh? I thought all SS cars came with trucks and couplers. No wonder the box is open. >> >> I don't have one, but the following may help >> http://cgi.ebay.com/Very-rare-Silver-Streak-Pacific-Electric-wood-caboose-/250770737936?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item3a6319cb10 >> It's not much, but does show the car side. Oh no way. No way at all. I'm no expert but based on the kits that I have I'd say trucks and couplers appear to have been included in the early years but were dropped or made optional in the later years. Afraid I can't define "early" and "later" as far as any timeline goes. -- Rick Jones "You're the disease. I'm the cure." -Cobra, "Cobra"

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16079	From: Richard White	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Re: Silver Streak Pacific Electric Caboose

Hi Vic- I saw that on EBay. Actually, the prepainted sides have a 1/2 inch wide vertical strip marked "waste," as shown in the EBay photo. I guess this is supposed to be cut out. But then what?? Regards- Richard    To: vintageho@yahoogroups.com From: bitlerisvj@... Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 22:28:52 -0500 Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Silver Streak Pacific Electric Caboose   I don't have one, but the following may help http://cgi.ebay.com/Very-rare-Silver-Streak-Pacific-Electric-wood-caboose-/250770737936?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item3a6319cb10 It's not much, but does show the car side. Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: toytrain13@... Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2011 00:24:19 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Silver Streak Pacific Electric Caboose   Hello guys- I have a box of parts for the #S118-475 Pacific Electric caboose kit. The roof section is from another SS caboose (it'll have to be trimmed, I presume). Since there are no instructions with the kit, I'm at a loss as to what the side elevation should look like. The sides pieces indicate that a section is to be trimmed out as "waste." I've been to HOSeeker but there is no literature for this caboose. Can anyone provide me with a scan that shows what I need? I do have generic SS instructions. Thanks, Richard White

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16080	From: Wally Weart	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Re: Silver Streak Pacific Electric Caboose

I posted a picture of my SS PE caboose in my folder (Wally). The sides are the original color and the ends which can't be seen are orange as were the prototypes. Wally

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16081	From: Roger Aultman	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Re: Cast 2-bay hopper ident

I have some Walthers hoppers that  sound like your car, definetly do need extra weight.   Roger Aultman     ----- Original Message ----- From: trainsnwrcs To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2011 12:20 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Cast 2-bay hopper ident   I've had this for at least 25 years, old when I got it. I decided to put the slope sheets in tonight (they were cardboard and shot). I had previously glass-beaded, filed and painted the body, so I used some .040" black styrene, filed to fit, and glued into place. But: This bugger is heavy. It is an extended-sdie 2-bay, flat-topped unit. The floor and chutes are one piece, cannot tell if the sides and ends are 4 separate pieces or not. There is a square cross-section rin along the bottom of the inside of the side walls for the floor piece to butt up against. Casting quality is poor. Took a lot of fill and file work on the extended sides to get the voids out. I still have ladders/grabs to install, corner grabs are in. Not Ulrich, Varney, MDC/Roundhouse, Walthers, hard to say, since they don't want old catalogs published, not Red Ball, doesn't appear to be Mantua. Any ideas, or do we need a photo? Thanks. Dave

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16082	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Re: Cast 2-bay hopper ident

I'm off to take photos. Since the car is semi-flat black, I am not expecting good shots. This car is almost as heavy as some light locomotives. I remember when I got it, I thought the stuff inside was lead.....dumped out the couplers, and bits, and realized it wasn't what was inside the car that was heavy.... > I have some Walthers hoppers that sound like your car, definetly do need extra weight. Roger Aultman > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: trainsnwrcs > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2011 12:20 AM > Subject: [vintageHO] Cast 2-bay hopper ident > > > > I've had this for at least 25 years, old when I got it. > I decided to put the slope sheets in tonight (they were cardboard and shot). > I had previously glass-beaded, filed and painted the body, so I used some .040" black styrene, filed to fit, and glued into place. > > But: > > This bugger is heavy. > It is an extended-sdie 2-bay, flat-topped unit. > The floor and chutes are one piece, cannot tell if the sides and ends are 4 separate pieces or not. > There is a square cross-section rin along the bottom of the inside of the side walls for the floor piece to butt up against. > Casting quality is poor. > Took a lot of fill and file work on the extended sides to get the voids out. > I still have ladders/grabs to install, corner grabs are in. > > Not Ulrich, Varney, MDC/Roundhouse, Walthers, hard to say, since they don't want old catalogs published, not Red Ball, doesn't appear to be Mantua. > Any ideas, or do we need a photo? > > Thanks. > Dave >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16083	From: jim heckard	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Varney pre war passenger set

Would like to show my latest addition not only for my vintage collection but a missing part of my Varney collection.  Go to 190499420231   Old Varney HO Wooden Passenger Cars 7 pcs.      This is a 7 car set of what was originally 8 cars. These are pre war made from 1939-1942. They have celluloid pre painted sides in blue and dark blue to look like Baltimore and Ohio.  ( the set is missing PA-6 Pullman 18 roommate 77' "Atlantis".) The frames are all wood.      The sides on the passenger cars look in very good shape ( most important ) but it's hard to be sure because of distortions in the picture. The roofs will have to be sanded and repainted gray, the bottoms need the weights taken of and repainted blue. I might need to find a couple of the old pre war Varney 4 axle trucks as some are missing wheels and the frames might have zinc pest but I have a few here and still can find them out on the open market. Will better be able to assess them when they arrive but still a great addition for my vintage collection especially Varney.                                     Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16084	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Re: Cast 2-bay hopper ident

Surprise....photos don't look too bad. Anyway, 5 shots up in my album (still haven't found out how you link a photo to a post), look in "Dave's old stuff", cast hopper pix. > I'm off to take photos. Since the car is semi-flat black, I am not expecting good shots. > This car is almost as heavy as some light locomotives. > I remember when I got it, I thought the stuff inside was lead.....dumped out the couplers, and bits, and realized it wasn't what was inside the car that was heavy.... > > > > I have some Walthers hoppers that sound like your car, definetly do need extra weight. Roger Aultman > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: trainsnwrcs > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2011 12:20 AM > > Subject: [vintageHO] Cast 2-bay hopper ident > > > > > > > > I've had this for at least 25 years, old when I got it. > > I decided to put the slope sheets in tonight (they were cardboard and shot). > > I had previously glass-beaded, filed and painted the body, so I used some .040" black styrene, filed to fit, and glued into place. > > > > But: > > > > This bugger is heavy. > > It is an extended-sdie 2-bay, flat-topped unit. > > The floor and chutes are one piece, cannot tell if the sides and ends are 4 separate pieces or not. > > There is a square cross-section rin along the bottom of the inside of the side walls for the floor piece to butt up against. > > Casting quality is poor. > > Took a lot of fill and file work on the extended sides to get the voids out. > > I still have ladders/grabs to install, corner grabs are in. > > > > Not Ulrich, Varney, MDC/Roundhouse, Walthers, hard to say, since they don't want old catalogs published, not Red Ball, doesn't appear to be Mantua. > > Any ideas, or do we need a photo? > > > > Thanks. > > Dave > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16085	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Next question

In this latest batch are two cast-side stockcars. Escutcheon pinned to wood floors and roof section. Cast doors, with only an upper guide, door swings out a bit at the bottom, but does not come out of the guide. Took some shots of sides, roof, underframe. I thought Walthers, but, again, copyright prevents posting of old catalogs. Photos going up in my album entitled "Dave's old stuff", cast stock. Dave

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16086	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Next question Cast Stock Car

Forgot to specify, there is no lower door guide, and no place for one to be "pinned" in....however, there is a rod to the right of the closed door, horizontal, below the bottom edge of the door proper, stops short of the door opening, with a ring and chain on it, one door of 4 has the chain attached to the bottom right corner of the door (4 doors on 2 cars). > In this latest batch are two cast-side stockcars. > Escutcheon pinned to wood floors and roof section. > Cast doors, with only an upper guide, door swings out a bit at the bottom, but does not come out of the guide. > Took some shots of sides, roof, underframe. > I thought Walthers, but, again, copyright prevents posting of old catalogs. > > Photos going up in my album entitled "Dave's old stuff", cast stock. > > Dave >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16087	From: tom bell	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Re: Silver Streak Pacific Electric Caboose

My PE caboose kit has the standard caboose instruction sheet but also this additional note   To THE MODELER: The S-110 P. E. Caboose and the S-119 Caboose are similar in construction to the S-108. The S=108 instructions are used in these kits. The S-118 and 5-119 do not have Cupolas. On both the S-118 and S-119 the floor lengths are 4-13/32".                         Lengths of Side Assemblies, after waste has been removed, are: Side with Windows 2-29/32°', Door 5/8" and Plain Side 7/8°'. Net overall 4-13/32". . Marker Light Brackets are mounted on sides in 4 corners, 13/16” from bottom edge and 1/16” in from end. Window Awnings are cemented over windows and like Marker Light Brackets are painted either box car red or black. Marker Lights are painted black. Tom

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16088	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Re: Next question

Dave,   If I am reading this correctly.. are you asking if the diecast stock cars are Walthers?  As far as I know, they are. I had a bunch of nice ones a while back and no one wanted them.. too heavy I guess. Went for about half of what I paid for them to a fine Mate down under...   Sean   1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! From: trainsnwrcs <idioticyahoo@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, February 15, 2011 1:05:16 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Next question   In this latest batch are two cast-side stockcars. Escutcheon pinned to wood floors and roof section. Cast doors, with only an upper guide, door swings out a bit at the bottom, but does not come out of the guide. Took some shots of sides, roof, underframe. I thought Walthers, but, again, copyright prevents posting of old catalogs. Photos going up in my album entitled "Dave's old stuff", cast stock. Dave

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16089	From: William Frisk	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Re: Silver Streak Pacific Electric Caboose

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Richard White <toytrain13@...> wrote: > > > Hi Vic- I saw that on EBay. Actually, the prepainted sides have a 1/2 inch wide vertical strip marked "waste," as shown in the EBay photo. I guess this is supposed to be cut out. But then what?? Regards- Richard > > That positions the side door correctly, which goes in that spot. Bill Frisk

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16090	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Re: Varney pre war passenger set

In the blue set, at least some 18 roomette "Atlantis" Pullmans were made without a name. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/album/1138789815/pic/1477905514/view?picmode=large&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&dir=asc Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2011 11:42 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Varney pre war passenger set Would like to show my latest addition not only for my vintage collection but a missing part of my Varney collection. Go to 190499420231 Old Varney HO Wooden Passenger Cars 7 pcs. This is a 7 car set of what was originally 8 cars. These are pre war made from 1939-1942. They have celluloid pre painted sides in blue and dark blue to look like Baltimore and Ohio. ( the set is missing PA-6 Pullman 18 roommate 77' "Atlantis".) The frames are all wood. The sides on the passenger cars look in very good shape ( most important ) but it's hard to be sure because of distortions in the picture. The roofs will have to be sanded and repainted gray, the bottoms need the weights taken of and repainted blue. I might need to find a couple of the old pre war Varney 4 axle trucks as some are missing wheels and the frames might have zinc pest but I have a few here and still can find them out on the open market. Will better be able to assess them when they arrive but still a great addition for my vintage collection especially Varney. Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16091	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Re: Cast 2-bay hopper ident

You're right, that doesn't look like a Red Ball even though they made that style car. (My Redball has a thinner centerbeam, and door detail cast into the hoppers, unless it's an earlier version.) Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "trainsnwrcs" <idioticyahoo@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2011 12:01 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Cast 2-bay hopper ident > > Surprise....photos don't look too bad. > Anyway, 5 shots up in my album (still haven't found out how you link a > photo to a post), look in "Dave's old stuff", cast hopper pix. > > >> I'm off to take photos. Since the car is semi-flat black, I am not >> expecting good shots. >> This car is almost as heavy as some light locomotives. >> I remember when I got it, I thought the stuff inside was lead.....dumped >> out the couplers, and bits, and realized it wasn't what was inside the >> car that was heavy.... >> >> >> > I have some Walthers hoppers that sound like your car, definetly do >> > need extra weight. Roger Aultman >> > >> > >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: trainsnwrcs >> > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com >> > Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2011 12:20 AM >> > Subject: [vintageHO] Cast 2-bay hopper ident >> > >> > >> > >> > I've had this for at least 25 years, old when I got it. >> > I decided to put the slope sheets in tonight (they were cardboard and >> > shot). >> > I had previously glass-beaded, filed and painted the body, so I used >> > some .040" black styrene, filed to fit, and glued into place. >> > >> > But: >> > >> > This bugger is heavy. >> > It is an extended-sdie 2-bay, flat-topped unit. >> > The floor and chutes are one piece, cannot tell if the sides and ends >> > are 4 separate pieces or not. >> > There is a square cross-section rin along the bottom of the inside of >> > the side walls for the floor piece to butt up against. >> > Casting quality is poor. >> > Took a lot of fill and file work on the extended sides to get the >> > voids out. >> > I still have ladders/grabs to install, corner grabs are in. >> > >> > Not Ulrich, Varney, MDC/Roundhouse, Walthers, hard to say, since they >> > don't want old catalogs published, not Red Ball, doesn't appear to be >> > Mantua. >> > Any ideas, or do we need a photo? >> > >> > Thanks. >> > Dave >> > >> > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16092	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Re: Cast 2-bay hopper ident

The sides are thick...the "extensions" do not show on the inside...inside being smooth like a smooth side hopper. Got couplers mounted, trucks shimmed to match (flat frame area....no bolster riser for trucks). Dave > You're right, that doesn't look like a Red Ball even though they made that > style car. (My Redball has a thinner centerbeam, and door detail cast into > the hoppers, unless it's an earlier version.) > > Don

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16093	From: Richard White	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Re: Silver Streak Pacific Electric Caboose

Thanks, Tom. Now things are starting to make sense. I am missing the two side doors apparently! While I'm puzzling over that, I'll go over the "additional note" that you enclose. Thank you for your help! -Richard   To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: tebeeb@... Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2011 20:06:06 +0100 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Silver Streak Pacific Electric Caboose   My PE caboose kit has the standard caboose instruction sheet but also this additional note   To THE MODELER: The S-110 P. E. Caboose and the S-119 Caboose are similar in construction to the S-108. The S=108 instructions are used in these kits. The S-118 and 5-119 do not have Cupolas. On both the S-118 and S-119 the floor lengths are 4-13/32".                         Lengths of Side Assemblies, after waste has been removed, are: Side with Windows 2-29/32°', Door 5/8" and Plain Side 7/8°'. Net overall 4-13/32". . Marker Light Brackets are mounted on sides in 4 corners, 13/16” from bottom edge and 1/16” in from end. Window Awnings are cemented over windows and like Marker Light Brackets are painted either box car red or black. Marker Lights are painted black. Tom

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16094	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Re: Next question Cast Stock Car

The stock car appears to indeed be Walthers. I have one lettered for the Frisco myself. -Steve Neubaum --- On Tue, 2/15/11, trainsnwrcs <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: From: trainsnwrcs <idioticyahoo@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Next question Cast Stock Car To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, February 15, 2011, 12:32 PM   Forgot to specify, there is no lower door guide, and no place for one to be "pinned" in....however, there is a rod to the right of the closed door, horizontal, below the bottom edge of the door proper, stops short of the door opening, with a ring and chain on it, one door of 4 has the chain attached to the bottom right corner of the door (4 doors on 2 cars). > In this latest batch are two cast-side stockcars. > Escutcheon pinned to wood floors and roof section. > Cast doors, with only an upper guide, door swings out a bit at the bottom, but does not come out of the guide. > Took some shots of sides, roof, underframe. > I thought Walthers, but, again, copyright prevents posting of old catalogs. > > Photos going up in my album entitled "Dave's old stuff", cast stock. > > Dave >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16095	From: Rick Jones	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Re: Silver Streak Pacific Electric Caboose

On 2/14/2011 11:09 PM, trainsnwrcs wrote: > Funny, every one I have ever had has included a yellow box with trucks, box says "Silver Streak", and couplers and coupler boxes. > Not going to argue the point, other than to say, so far, every one. > NOT Walthers or Ye Olde Huff n Puff ownership. My comment included all owners of the Silver Streak name - original, Pacific HO, Walthers and Ye Olde Huff 'N Puff. Somewhere in that history T&C disappeared as a normally included item. -- Rick Jones Opportunities always look bigger going than coming.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16096	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Re: Silver Streak Pacific Electric Caboose

Attachments : 20110215_152107.pdf Here's an enlargement and scan from a Pacific HO ad from 1967. It's interesting in that the picture in the Walthers catalog I was originally going to do is this same print reversed. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wally Weart" <dim01521@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2011 9:38 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Silver Streak Pacific Electric Caboose >I posted a picture of my SS PE caboose in my folder (Wally). The > sides are the original color and the ends which can't be seen are > orange as were the prototypes. > > Wally

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 16097	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Re: Silver Streak Pacific Electric Caboose

----- Original Message ----- From: "Rick Jones" <r.t.jones@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2011 5:36 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Silver Streak Pacific Electric Caboose > On 2/14/2011 11:09 PM, trainsnwrcs wrote: >> Funny, every one I have ever had has included a yellow box with trucks, >> box says "Silver Streak", and couplers and coupler boxes. >> Not going to argue the point, other than to say, so far, every one. >> NOT Walthers or Ye Olde Huff n Puff ownership. > > My comment included all owners of the Silver Streak name - original, > Pacific HO, Walthers and Ye Olde Huff 'N Puff. Somewhere in that history > T&C disappeared as a normally included item. > > -- > > Rick Jones > > Opportunities always look bigger going than coming. Ca. 1970, they were still Pacific HO, at that time the note in the Walthers' catalog said trucks and couplers (dummys) were still included. 1977, now manufactured by Walthers, "Delrin trucks with Delrin wheels included" 1980, "kits are less trucks and couplers" Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16098	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Re: Silver Streak Pacific Electric Caboose

So, for the purposes of "vintage" discussion, up to at least 1979, T&C included. Since I never buy anything from Walthers (end up with some of their used stuff, but they don't get my money), T&C included. The original photo of the car in question certainly looks like original SS packaging, not later Walthers (altho I haven't seen a PE caboose by Walthers), should have had a yellow box that said Silver Streak with trucks in it, appropriate for the car in question. > Ca. 1970, they were still Pacific HO, at that time the note in the Walthers' > catalog said trucks and couplers (dummys) were still included. > > 1977, now manufactured by Walthers, "Delrin trucks with Delrin wheels > included" > > 1980, "kits are less trucks and couplers" > > Don > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16099	From: Karl Peters	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Instructructions for Silver Streak P.E. Caboose

Dear Richard:   Just checked the four kits that I have, and the instructions were for the #108 Combination-Passenger, Baggage, Caboose car.  In the lower right hand corner were special instructions for the #118 (P.E.) and #119 cabooses. The instructions on HO Seeker seem to be an earlier version, as the special instructions are missing.   These kits were purchased ca. 1985 when Siver Streak was being produced by Walthers. None came with trucks or couplers, by the way.   If you need a copy, let me know and I can mail you one.   Karl Peters

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16100	From: Richard White	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Re: Instructructions for Silver Streak P.E. Caboose

Thanks, Karl. I have now figured out what is going on with this semi-kit. First, the roof is too short, but I can shorten the body 1/4" or so to make it match the roof. The main problem: there are no side doors included in the kit. So I am going to make an appeal for doors. Thanks for your help.  Regards- Richard White   To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: krlpeters@... Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2011 16:40:39 -0800 Subject: [vintageHO] Instructructions for Silver Streak P.E. Caboose   Dear Richard:   Just checked the four kits that I have, and the instructions were for the #108 Combination-Passenger, Baggage, Caboose car.  In the lower right hand corner were special instructions for the #118 (P.E.) and #119 cabooses. The instructions on HO Seeker seem to be an earlier version, as the special instructions are missing.   These kits were purchased ca. 1985 when Siver Streak was being produced by Walthers. None came with trucks or couplers, by the way.   If you need a copy, let me know and I can mail you one.   Karl Peters

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16101	From: toytrain13	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Silver Streak Pacific Electric caboose

I've finally gotten an idea how this kit was supposed to go together. What threw me was the fact that my "bastard" kit had no side doors included. So I couldn't figure out how the sides were supposed to match up with the floor. Also, the roof is wrong- it's from a kit with a roof about 1/4" shorter. Okay, I'll shorten the car so the floor matches the roof. What I need, if anyone can help, is two side doors. I can exchange a SS cupola for these, or ?? Thanks- Richard White

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16102	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Re: Silver Streak Pacific Electric caboose

Are they standard SS Boxcar doors? If so I have a couple. But, I don't have door guides. However, all is not lost! Ye Olde Huff n Puff has doors and giudes. > I've finally gotten an idea how this kit was supposed to go together. What threw me was the fact that my "bastard" kit had no side doors included. So I couldn't figure out how the sides were supposed to match up with the floor. Also, the roof is wrong- it's from a kit with a roof about 1/4" shorter. Okay, I'll shorten the car so the floor matches the roof. What I need, if anyone can help, is two side doors. I can exchange a SS cupola for these, or ?? Thanks- Richard White >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16103	From: John Hagen	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: OSTUCO Decals

Attachments : OSTUCO_Sccan_01.pdf Okay, I kind of disappeared for a while.  Three weeks or so ago I was informed that I had developed a clot in my bad leg. And it was due to sloppiness on the part of the staff of the physical rehab I had been banished to. Needless to say I was PO’ed! Took a while for that to pass and in the meantime I was not in the mood to discuss the situation in person or in print.   But I’m home now. Things appear to be progressing now and I’m over my mad-on. I printed the first set (or proof if you prefer) of the decal set. I have finished going over it with a magnifier and will be production printing for the next day or so. Decals should be in the mail by the weekend. I will be emailing all buyer no later than Thursday so if you do not receive an email from me by Thursday night, please email me.   I have scanned the set and have attached it to this post.   John Hagen OBS-CALS  The Obscure Decal People

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 16104	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Re: Silver Streak Pacific Electric caboose

Hmmm, As one of our other folks said, Ye Olde Huff n Puff do have some Silver Streak parts.  Hopefully they have the side doors.  Regarding the roof, I am sure you should be able to get that kind of roof stock from Northeastern, or at least something that will work.  As I recall, the Silver Streak caboose kits used a curved roof, but had a recess at the ends to accommodate the caboose ends.  You will likely need to cut hat recess yourself.  It shouldn't be too bad.  I don't think I would shorten the floor.  You may even consider modifying the existing roof by putting a 1/32 sheet over the curved roof to extend it.  You can buy 1/32 bass or balsa at Michael's, Hobby Lobby, or A.C. Moore. Good luck and regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: toytrain13@... Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2011 01:49:45 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Silver Streak Pacific Electric caboose   I've finally gotten an idea how this kit was supposed to go together. What threw me was the fact that my "bastard" kit had no side doors included. So I couldn't figure out how the sides were supposed to match up with the floor. Also, the roof is wrong- it's from a kit with a roof about 1/4" shorter. Okay, I'll shorten the car so the floor matches the roof. What I need, if anyone can help, is two side doors. I can exchange a SS cupola for these, or ?? Thanks- Richard White

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16105	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Re: OSTUCO Decals [1 Attachment]

Hi John, I am very glad to hear you are better.  Hopefully the clot never went near anything it could hurt.  Keep getting better. My Undecorated USRA gon should be arriving any day now, so I will get to chop off one end add the special pieces.  Then it will be ready for paint and decals.    I plan on scratchbuilding the second one, that is why I ordered two sets.  Hmm, I may scratch two 42 ones also. Thanks and regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: sprinthag@... Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2011 20:39:14 -0600 Subject: [vintageHO] OSTUCO Decals [1 Attachment]   [Attachment(s) from John Hagen included below] Okay, I kind of disappeared for a while.  Three weeks or so ago I was informed that I had developed a clot in my bad leg. And it was due to sloppiness on the part of the staff of the physical rehab I had been banished to. Needless to say I was PO’ed! Took a while for that to pass and in the meantime I was not in the mood to discuss the situation in person or in print.   But I’m home now. Things appear to be progressing now and I’m over my mad-on. I printed the first set (or proof if you prefer) of the decal set. I have finished going over it with a magnifier and will be production printing for the next day or so. Decals should be in the mail by the weekend. I will be emailing all buyer no later than Thursday so if you do not receive an email from me by Thursday night, please email me.   I have scanned the set and have attached it to this post.   John Hagen OBS-CALS  The Obscure Decal People

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16106	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Re: Silver Streak Pacific Electric caboose

On second thought, just cut the original roof to fit EXACTLY between the ends and sides, then glue on a 1/32 sheet of basswood.  This will actually look better than the original. Good luck and regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageho@yahoogroups.com From: bitlerisvj@... Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2011 21:45:30 -0500 Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Silver Streak Pacific Electric caboose   Hmmm, As one of our other folks said, Ye Olde Huff n Puff do have some Silver Streak parts.  Hopefully they have the side doors.  Regarding the roof, I am sure you should be able to get that kind of roof stock from Northeastern, or at least something that will work.  As I recall, the Silver Streak caboose kits used a curved roof, but had a recess at the ends to accommodate the caboose ends.  You will likely need to cut hat recess yourself.  It shouldn't be too bad.  I don't think I would shorten the floor.  You may even consider modifying the existing roof by putting a 1/32 sheet over the curved roof to extend it.  You can buy 1/32 bass or balsa at Michael's, Hobby Lobby, or A.C. Moore. Good luck and regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: toytrain13@... Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2011 01:49:45 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Silver Streak Pacific Electric caboose   I've finally gotten an idea how this kit was supposed to go together. What threw me was the fact that my "bastard" kit had no side doors included. So I couldn't figure out how the sides were supposed to match up with the floor. Also, the roof is wrong- it's from a kit with a roof about 1/4" shorter. Okay, I'll shorten the car so the floor matches the roof. What I need, if anyone can help, is two side doors. I can exchange a SS cupola for these, or ?? Thanks- Richard White

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16107	From: Richard White	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Re: Silver Streak Pacific Electric Caboose [1 Attachment]

Thanks, Don. Finally, a photo I can work from.  Regards- Richard   To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: don.dellmann@... Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2011 17:50:31 -0600 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Silver Streak Pacific Electric Caboose [1 Attachment]   [Attachment(s) from Don Dellmann included below] Here's an enlargement and scan from a Pacific HO ad from 1967. It's interesting in that the picture in the Walthers catalog I was originally going to do is this same print reversed. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wally Weart" <dim01521@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2011 9:38 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Silver Streak Pacific Electric Caboose >I posted a picture of my SS PE caboose in my folder (Wally). The > sides are the original color and the ends which can't be seen are > orange as were the prototypes. > > Wally

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16108	From: Richard White	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Re: Silver Streak Pacific Electric caboose

Don Dellmann has sent me an ad showing the caboose. The doors are a three-pane "baggage" type, such as you'd find on an early wood baggage car. I'm going to check Ye Olde Huff n Puff to look for doors. Thanks- Richard  To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: idioticyahoo@... Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2011 02:23:35 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Silver Streak Pacific Electric caboose   Are they standard SS Boxcar doors? If so I have a couple. But, I don't have door guides. However, all is not lost! Ye Olde Huff n Puff has doors and giudes. > I've finally gotten an idea how this kit was supposed to go together. What threw me was the fact that my "bastard" kit had no side doors included. So I couldn't figure out how the sides were supposed to match up with the floor. Also, the roof is wrong- it's from a kit with a roof about 1/4" shorter. Okay, I'll shorten the car so the floor matches the roof. What I need, if anyone can help, is two side doors. I can exchange a SS cupola for these, or ?? Thanks- Richard White >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16109	From: Richard White	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Re: Silver Streak Pacific Electric caboose

Great idea! Thanks- Richard   To: vintageho@yahoogroups.com From: bitlerisvj@... Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2011 21:59:48 -0500 Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Silver Streak Pacific Electric caboose   On second thought, just cut the original roof to fit EXACTLY between the ends and sides, then glue on a 1/32 sheet of basswood.  This will actually look better than the original. Good luck and regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageho@yahoogroups.com From: bitlerisvj@... Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2011 21:45:30 -0500 Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Silver Streak Pacific Electric caboose   Hmmm, As one of our other folks said, Ye Olde Huff n Puff do have some Silver Streak parts.  Hopefully they have the side doors.  Regarding the roof, I am sure you should be able to get that kind of roof stock from Northeastern, or at least something that will work.  As I recall, the Silver Streak caboose kits used a curved roof, but had a recess at the ends to accommodate the caboose ends.  You will likely need to cut hat recess yourself.  It shouldn't be too bad.  I don't think I would shorten the floor.  You may even consider modifying the existing roof by putting a 1/32 sheet over the curved roof to extend it.  You can buy 1/32 bass or balsa at Michael's, Hobby Lobby, or A.C. Moore. Good luck and regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: toytrain13@... Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2011 01:49:45 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Silver Streak Pacific Electric caboose   I've finally gotten an idea how this kit was supposed to go together. What threw me was the fact that my "bastard" kit had no side doors included. So I couldn't figure out how the sides were supposed to match up with the floor. Also, the roof is wrong- it's from a kit with a roof about 1/4" shorter. Okay, I'll shorten the car so the floor matches the roof. What I need, if anyone can help, is two side doors. I can exchange a SS cupola for these, or ?? Thanks- Richard White

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16110	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Re: Silver Streak Pacific Electric caboose

http://www.yeoldehuffnpuff.com/sstreakkits.htm Look at Drover's Cabooses: http://www.yeoldehuffnpuff.com/images/HO/ss%20undec%20caboose.jpg If he's got the kits, he probably has doors, even though not listed in parts. > Don Dellmann has sent me an ad showing the caboose. The doors are a three-pane "baggage" type, such as you'd find on an early wood baggage car. I'm going to check Ye Olde Huff n Puff to look for doors. Thanks- Richard > > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > From: idioticyahoo@... > Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2011 02:23:35 +0000 > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Silver Streak Pacific Electric caboose > > > > > > > Are they standard SS Boxcar doors? > If so I have a couple. > But, I don't have door guides. > However, all is not lost! > Ye Olde Huff n Puff has doors and giudes. > > > I've finally gotten an idea how this kit was supposed to go together. What threw me was the fact that my "bastard" kit had no side doors included. So I couldn't figure out how the sides were supposed to match up with the floor. Also, the roof is wrong- it's from a kit with a roof about 1/4" shorter. Okay, I'll shorten the car so the floor matches the roof. What I need, if anyone can help, is two side doors. I can exchange a SS cupola for these, or ?? Thanks- Richard White > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16111	From: tom bell	Date: 2/15/2011
Subject: Re: Silver Streak Pacific Electric caboose

I think the doors are the same as used on the combine caboose - I'm sitting in bed typing this on my laptop and the caboose is out in the garage, otherwise I'd go and check! Tom  On 16 February 2011 05:22, Richard White <toytrain13@...> wrote:   Don Dellmann has sent me an ad showing the caboose. The doors are a three-pane "baggage" type, such as you'd find on an early wood baggage car. I'm going to check Ye Olde Huff n Puff to look for doors. Thanks- Richard  To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: idioticyahoo@... Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2011 02:23:35 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Silver Streak Pacific Electric caboose   Are they standard SS Boxcar doors? If so I have a couple. But, I don't have door guides. However, all is not lost! Ye Olde Huff n Puff has doors and giudes. > I've finally gotten an idea how this kit was supposed to go together. What threw me was the fact that my "bastard" kit had no side doors included. So I couldn't figure out how the sides were supposed to match up with the floor. Also, the roof is wrong- it's from a kit with a roof about 1/4" shorter. Okay, I'll shorten the car so the floor matches the roof. What I need, if anyone can help, is two side doors. I can exchange a SS cupola for these, or ?? Thanks- Richard White >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16112	From: Jim Waterman	Date: 2/16/2011
Subject: Re: Cast 2-bay hopper ident

Looks like some old International Models hoppers that I have. They weigh a ton! Jim Waterman

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16113	From: Raymond Lorts, Sr,	Date: 2/16/2011
Subject: Fwd: This Weekend! - Great Train Expo in Portland, OR

---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Great Train Expo <bill@...> Date: Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 7:50 AM Subject: This Weekend! - Great Train Expo in Portland, OR To: gn5263@... Great Train Expo Portland, OR - February 19 & 20, 2011 Show Schedule 02/19-20/2011 Portland, OR Portland Expo Center 02/26-27/2011 Denver, CO National Western Complex 03/05-06/2011 Columbus, OH Ohio Expo Center 03/12-13/2011 Wichita, KS Century II 03/19-20/2011 Kansas City, MO American Royal Cmplx 03/26-27/2011 Mobile, AL Greater Gulf State Fair 07/16-17/2011 San Jose, CA Santa Clara Co. Fairgrounds 07/23-24/2011 Pomona, CA Fairplex 07/30-31/2011 Belleville, IL Belle-Clair Fairgrounds Park 08/06-07/2011 Orlando, FL Central Florida Fairgrounds 08/13-14/2011 Tampa, FL Florida State Fairgrounds 08/20-21/2011 Mandeville, LA Castine Center     09/17-18/2011 Springfield, IL Illinois State Fairgrounds 09/24-25/2011 Indianapolis, IN Indiana State Fairgrounds   10/15-16/2011 Austin, TX Austin Convention Center   11/05-06/2011 Norcross, GA North Atlanta Trade Center   11/12-13/2011 Marina District of Richmond, CA Craneway Pavilion 11/19-20/2011 Puyallup, WA Puyallup Fair & Events Ctr   11/26-27/2011 Collinsville, IL Gateway Center    12/03-04/2011 Del Mar, CA Del Mar Fairgrounds   12/10-11/2011 Pomona, CA Fairplex   12/17-18, 2011 Indianapolis, IN Indiana State Fairgrounds   The Great Train Expo is pleased to be returning to Portland, OR     Where: Portland Expo Center 2060 North Marine Drive Portland, OR  97217 Directions/Map  When: Saturday & Sunday February 19 & 20, 2011 10:00am to 4:00pm, Both Days Cost: Adults: $7.00 Kids under 12: FREE!   Show Features: a PACKED building full of dealers with ALL sizes & Scales!! 300+ Tables with over 50 Exhibitors from across the country!! Operating Model Railroads in many sizes and scales Trains Kids Can Play With!! Amazing LEGO Layout! a HUGE riding train for kids! Free Workshops & Demonstrations Door Prizes! Much, Much More!   Contact Us Interested in Becoming an Exhibitor?  Have Questions?  Contact Us At: Great Train Expo - P.O. Box 725, Oswego, IL 60543 - E-Mail Us! Phone: 630/608-4988, Fax: 630/566-0400, Visit Our Web Site!   Forward email This email was sent to gn5263@... by bill@... |   Update Profile/Email Address | Instant removal with SafeUnsubscribe™ | Privacy Policy. Great Train Expo | PO Box 725 | Oswego | IL | 60543

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16114	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 2/16/2011
Subject: MYSTERY 2-8-4 BRASS & DIECAST STEAM ENGINE I have listed.

Hi Guys! I am sorry as I swore I would never try to promote a listing I have posted on eBay and truly this is not an attempt to do so. I really have no idea who makes this engine, although I think it could have been a British company.. It is brass and diecast and was built from a kit. Any assistance would be greatly appreciated: It is not a vintage engine, I can tell that... http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320657220757&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT RARE BRASS DIECAST 2-8-4 STEAM LOCOMOTIVE BOWSER CARY Thanks in advance: Sean   1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16115	From: Bill Pittman	Date: 2/16/2011
Subject: Want to buy.

Hello. I'm lookin for a varney pre-war streamline 4-8-4 (gg1),A varney streamline 4-6-4 or 4-6-2 and a famoco b1 box cab switcher. I'm willing to pay any reasonable price plus shipping. Thank you Bill P.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16116	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 2/16/2011
Subject: Re: Want to buy.

Bill, I have the Famoco box cab b1 which has been completely restored, painted, and decaled. Runs great. Original pantographs, great box and the quaint directions. I'm willing to sell, but it would probably cost you more than you want to pay. Perhaps someone else has one for under $450.   Art W       In a message dated 2/16/2011 9:58:14 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, bill_pittman1@... writes: Hello. I'm lookin for a varney pre-war streamline 4-8-4 (gg1),A varney streamline 4-6-4 or 4-6-2 and a famoco b1 box cab switcher. I'm willing to pay any reasonable price plus shipping. Thank you Bill P. ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings:     Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join     (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email:     vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com     vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:     vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16117	From: jim heckard	Date: 2/16/2011
Subject: Re: Want to buy.

Bill,           I wish you luck finding and buying any of the engines you mention. . These are not $100 items. Now I am talking about all top of the line pieces. Be careful if offered the Varney 4-8-4 electric body. It's the original body that is hardest to find as there were reproductions out there at one time. Having an original body and running engine I do not plan to sell mine. VERY scare. ( This 4-8-4 is not a GG-1 but Varney sold it as SUGGESTIVE of a GG-1)        I think your best chance and the easiest on the pocketbook will be to find the Varney streamlined cast brass body and a Varney 4-6-4 or 4-6-2 mechanism. Mine not for sale       Same with a custom painted FAMOCO B-1 rat. Unless you get very lucky I'm afraid you will be paying TOP dollar for any you want. Again mine not for sale       If you care to see pictures of any of the engines you mention that are in my vintage collection go to www.hoseeker.net, click on  Gallery, find Varney Diesel for the 4-8-4 electric, find Varney Steam for a 4-6-4 streamlined brass engine and find FAMOCO ( Famous Model Company) under HO Trains A to G.      Hopefully you will hit it lucky and find what you want at your reasonably price.                                           Jim H           ----- Original Message ----- From: luvprr@... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2011 10:08 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Want to buy.   Bill, I have the Famoco box cab b1 which has been completely restored, painted, and decaled. Runs great. Original pantographs, great box and the quaint directions. I'm willing to sell, but it would probably cost you more than you want to pay. Perhaps someone else has one for under $450.   Art W       In a message dated 2/16/2011 9:58:14 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, bill_pittman1@... writes: Hello. I'm lookin for a varney pre-war streamline 4-8-4 (gg1),A varney streamline 4-6-4 or 4-6-2 and a famoco b1 box cab switcher. I'm willing to pay any reasonable price plus shipping. Thank you Bill P. ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings:     Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join     (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email:     vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com     vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:     vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16118	From: Bill Pittman	Date: 2/16/2011
Subject: Re: Want to buy.

Thank you Jim. I expect To pay in the ballpark of $350+ for the gg1 body, $275+ for the 4-6-4 And i would be willing to go $300-325 for the B1. I model the prr and all my locos but one are die-cast and that is what i prefer to run because of the pulling power. Thanks again Bill --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> wrote: > > Bill, > > I wish you luck finding and buying any of the engines you mention. . These are not $100 items. Now I am talking about all top of the line pieces. Be careful if offered the Varney 4-8-4 electric body. It's the original body that is hardest to find as there were reproductions out there at one time. Having an original body and running engine I do not plan to sell mine. VERY scare. ( This 4-8-4 is not a GG-1 but Varney sold it as SUGGESTIVE of a GG-1) > > I think your best chance and the easiest on the pocketbook will be to find the Varney streamlined cast brass body and a Varney 4-6-4 or 4-6-2 mechanism. Mine not for sale > > Same with a custom painted FAMOCO B-1 rat. Unless you get very lucky I'm afraid you will be paying TOP dollar for any you want. Again mine not for sale > > If you care to see pictures of any of the engines you mention that are in my vintage collection go to www.hoseeker.net, click on Gallery, find Varney Diesel for the 4-8-4 electric, find Varney Steam for a 4-6-4 streamlined brass engine and find FAMOCO ( Famous Model Company) under HO Trains A to G. > > Hopefully you will hit it lucky and find what you want at your reasonably price. > > Jim H > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: luvprr@... > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2011 10:08 AM > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Want to buy. > > > > > Bill, > I have the Famoco box cab b1 which has been completely restored, painted, and decaled. Runs great. Original pantographs, great box and the quaint directions. I'm willing to sell, but it would probably cost you more than you want to pay. Perhaps someone else has one for under $450. > > Art W > > > > In a message dated 2/16/2011 9:58:14 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, bill_pittman1@... writes: > Hello. I'm lookin for a varney pre-war streamline 4-8-4 (gg1),A varney streamline 4-6-4 or 4-6-2 and a famoco b1 box cab switcher. I'm willing to pay any reasonable price plus shipping. Thank you Bill P. > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16119	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 2/16/2011
Subject: Re: Cast 2-bay hopper ident

Odd.....I have three 2-bays up on the shelf, unidentified, this one, a straight side, cast, with separate center sill frame, and a s one I always thought was International. > Looks like some old International Models hoppers that I have. They weigh > a ton! > > Jim Waterman >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16120	From: Larry	Date: 2/16/2011
Subject: This Weekend! - Peoria Train Fair in East Peoria, IL

Sunday, February 20th from 10 am until 3 pm at the Main Campus of Illinois Central College.   Lots of dealers, displays, and railroad model items in many scales for sale. If you are any where near Central Illinois this Sunday, this is the show for you!   Larry Miller III Peoria, IL

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16121	From: Richard	Date: 2/16/2011
Subject: MDC Shay Truck Mounting Pins

I'm working on a kit bash project using MDC Shay trucks. I'm wondering if anyone ever found a better way to attach these trucks other than MDC's plastic mounting pin. There is only a tiny bit of room to work with inside one of these trucks so I'm looking for some altenate ideas on how to mount them. Thanks. Richard in Vermont

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16122	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 2/16/2011
Subject: I need a part.

I'm in need of the motor worm for a a Varney Economy Pacific chassis. Can someone help on this? It's for a never finally assembled pairing of the Varney Bronze Streamlined steamer superstructure and an unpowered chassis. Getting the right worm gear will allow me to power it with the original axle gear. Failing that happening, has anyone used a more modern gearbox on one of these old Varney Economy Pacifics and liked the result? I'd like to know what worked for that. I'm thinking of making a mold and casting weighted dups of the superstructure to put on Mantua drives. It would be a kick to bring two or more of those to the Big Club near me and run passenger trains on several miles of scale tracks, using tenders much like the Milwaukee Road S3 tenders if I don't find available big steamer Varney tenders I'd still like to get the original Varney operational, I might keep it in virgin metal, and let it's new sisters do regular operation. Thanks guys, Best to ya, Mike Bauers Milwaukee, Wi

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16123	From: RalphB	Date: 2/17/2011
Subject: Re: Want to buy.

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard wrote: > > Be careful if offered the Varney 4-8-4 electric body. It's the original body that is hardest to find as there were reproductions out there at one time. Having an original body and running engine I do not plan to sell mine. VERY scare. ( This 4-8-4 is not a GG-1 but Varney sold it as SUGGESTIVE of a GG-1) --------------------- All, The Pennsy actually had a 2-D-2 (4-8-4) electric locomotive with a body similar to the GG-1; it was a one-off prototype, class R-1. In fact, it was the only 4-8-4 on the Pennsylvania Railroad roster. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRR_R1 Ralph B

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16124	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 2/17/2011
Subject: The very first Rivarossi production model ever produced just sold on

Hi Guys! Too bad the guy did not list it correctly. I saw it too late and would have told him to revise it, but then again I was thinking of bidding..until i saw it skyrocket!   Vintage HO Rivarossi Interurban Electric w/ Pantograph   It is their very first model to appear in the first catalog in 1946.   A.E. 2002 1946 EMU 2002 Ferrovie Nord Milano Green   Please see the following page and scroll down approx 3/4 of the page to see the history of this piece: http://www.rivarossi-memory.it/ENGLISH_VERSION/Riva_Italian_Locos/Riva_Automot_Elett_2002%20FNM_Eng.htm Sean   1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16125	From: Bill Pittman	Date: 2/18/2011
Subject: Re: Want to buy.

Thanks for the info. I would settle for the repo because I do want it to make a R1 out of it. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "RalphB" <Alpvalsys@...> wrote: > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard wrote: > > > > Be careful if offered the Varney 4-8-4 electric body. It's the original body that is hardest to find as there were reproductions out there at one time. Having an original body and running engine I do not plan to sell mine. VERY scare. ( This 4-8-4 is not a GG-1 but Varney sold it as SUGGESTIVE of a GG-1) > --------------------- > All, > > The Pennsy actually had a 2-D-2 (4-8-4) electric locomotive with a body similar to the GG-1; it was a one-off prototype, class R-1. In fact, it was the only 4-8-4 on the Pennsylvania Railroad roster. > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRR_R1 > > Ralph B >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16126	From: Nelson	Date: 2/18/2011
Subject: Re: The very first Rivarossi production model ever produced just sol

Wow... 1375 smackers! Thanks for posting this. I saw an auction for it in kit form about 2 years ago and had no idea what it was. The seller didn't properly describe it either, so I figured it was a trolley. I save the photos and did my best to enhance them, but they're still pretty rough. http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t131/NickelPlate759/Rivarossi%20EMU%202002/RivarossiEMU20021-784x600.jpg http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t131/NickelPlate759/Rivarossi%20EMU%202002/RivarossiEMU20022a.jpg Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > Hi Guys! > Too bad the guy did not list it correctly. I saw it too late and would have told > him to revise it, but then again I was thinking of bidding..until i saw it > skyrocket! > > Vintage HO Rivarossi Interurban Electric w/ Pantograph > > It is their very first model to appear in the first catalog in 1946. > > A.E. 2002 1946 EMU 2002 Ferrovie Nord Milano Green > > Please see the following page and scroll down approx 3/4 of the page to see the > history of this piece: > > > http://www.rivarossi-memory.it/ENGLISH_VERSION/Riva_Italian_Locos/Riva_Automot_Elett_2002%20FNM_Eng.htm > > > Sean >  1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16127	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 2/18/2011
Subject: Re: The very first Rivarossi production model ever produced just sol

Cool Nelson,   The link I sent said the kit form came out ~1948-49 I think..   Sean     1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! From: Nelson <greenbrier614@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, February 18, 2011 5:12:28 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: The very first Rivarossi production model ever produced just sold on eBay!   Wow... 1375 smackers! Thanks for posting this. I saw an auction for it in kit form about 2 years ago and had no idea what it was. The seller didn't properly describe it either, so I figured it was a trolley. I save the photos and did my best to enhance them, but they're still pretty rough. http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t131/NickelPlate759/Rivarossi%20EMU%202002/RivarossiEMU20021-784x600.jpg http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t131/NickelPlate759/Rivarossi%20EMU%202002/RivarossiEMU20022a.jpg Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > Hi Guys! > Too bad the guy did not list it correctly. I saw it too late and would have told > him to revise it, but then again I was thinking of bidding..until i saw it > skyrocket! > > Vintage HO Rivarossi Interurban Electric w/ Pantograph > > It is their very first model to appear in the first catalog in 1946. > > A.E. 2002 1946 EMU 2002 Ferrovie Nord Milano Green > > Please see the following page and scroll down approx 3/4 of the page to see the > history of this piece: > > > http://www.rivarossi-memory.it/ENGLISH_VERSION/Riva_Italian_Locos/Riva_Automot_Elett_2002%20FNM_Eng.htm > > > Sean >  1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16128	From: Jim Waterman	Date: 2/18/2011
Subject: Re: The very first Rivarossi production model ever produced just sol

So there were enough people who knew what it was. $1375. I suspect that was a fair price, eh? Jim Waterman

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16129	From: JimW	Date: 2/18/2011
Subject: Re: Want to buy.

I have an original Varney streamliner, which has an aluminum body with cast in stripes. It is about the right size for an R-1, but kind of crude. Would also be very expensive. I know mine is original and have been offered $1000 for it. I would consider cutting up something like an Ahm or Mehano GG1. Drivers were smaller than GG1 on the Ri, Varney used a 2-8-2 mechanism (had the side rods too). The side frames were cast integral to the cab. Jim Waterman --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Pittman" <bill_pittman1@...> wrote: > > Thanks for the info. I would settle for the repo because I do want it to make a R1 out of it. > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "RalphB" <Alpvalsys@> wrote: > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard wrote: > > > > > > Be careful if offered the Varney 4-8-4 electric body. It's the original body that is hardest to find as there were reproductions out there at one time. Having an original body and running engine I do not plan to sell mine. VERY scare. ( This 4-8-4 is not a GG-1 but Varney sold it as SUGGESTIVE of a GG-1) > > --------------------- > > All, > > > > The Pennsy actually had a 2-D-2 (4-8-4) electric locomotive with a body similar to the GG-1; it was a one-off prototype, class R-1. In fact, it was the only 4-8-4 on the Pennsylvania Railroad roster. > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRR_R1 > > > > Ralph B > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16130	From: CinderCrusher	Date: 2/18/2011
Subject: Re: The very first Rivarossi production model ever produced just sol

Reminds me of the time I saw a Lionel clockwork Mickey Mouse train go for $3500.00 on e-bay. The funny thing was that the seller had no clue. He started it at $9.95 Bill DeFoe --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Waterman <Watermaj@...> wrote: > > So there were enough people who knew what it was. $1375. I suspect that > was a fair price, eh? > > Jim Waterman >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16131	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 2/18/2011
Subject: Re: The very first Rivarossi production model ever produced just sol

Might have been some 'Big' traders in that. I just looked at the bid record. Four of them waited until moments before the expiration time and kited it from $444 to the final $1,375, with four bids within 11-seconds. The low man in those 11-seconds was at $866 The winner shows that he has been buying from ebay for 1581-wins !! One of the guys that passed on going for the final round has 3292- wins !!!! He stopped 5-hours before at $330 and was beat by just $3. The others in the final seconds average about 330-wins........... The second highest was $1,350, makes me wonder what the unknown upper limit of the winner actually was........ So in this case you would have to have last-second bidding software and be well able to bid at something over $1,500. Yikes !!!!! Best to ya, Mike Bauers Milwaukee, Wi On Feb 18, 2011, at 7:22 PM, Jim Waterman wrote: > So there were enough people who knew what it was. $1375. I suspect > that > was a fair price, eh?

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16132	From: CinderCrusher	Date: 2/19/2011
Subject: Re: I need a part.

Mike, I have the part you need. E-mail me with your address and I will send it to you, attached to an original motor. I don't need it as my Varney streamline Pacific has been re-motored with a Sagami can motor and a KTM idler gearbox. No charge. I'm just glad someone can use it. Bill DeFoe --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote: > > I'm in need of the motor worm for a a Varney Economy Pacific chassis. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16133	From: jim heckard	Date: 2/19/2011
Subject: Varney Streamlined Electric

Attachments : IMG_6779_2.JPG IMG_6777_1.JPG Jim W, Bill P, Ralph, All.         I just wanted to add some information concerning the Varney streamlined pre war electric since it gets a little confusing every time it's discussed.     The Varney electric is a 4-8-4 wheel arrangement. It is as noted that it is actually classified an R-1 and from what I'm told only one was made. The problem as to description comes where people see GG-1 associated with it right from Varney paperwork that states SUGGESTIVE of a GG-1 ( no it is not a GG-1 ). Varney wanted to create a streamlined electric that could utilize minimum radius track like 15".       I have sent a picture of my Varney Streamlined Electric that was to use a Varney 2-8-0 Consolidation drive cut down according to plans that can be found on www.hoseeker.net.  Side rods stayed on. You will also see the ad for SUGGESTIVE of a GG-1. The leading / trailing trucks were to be the Varney pre war 4 wheel passenger trucks. I have paperwork from a number of sources to verify my body as original and not a repro. Years ago I was offered $1500 for it but declined and don't intend to sell it.      I know there has been a lot of discussion about prices, whether you believe right or wrong, on certain items. ( No I'm not talking about some big mistakes like 0-4-0 Mantua $100 engines ) People have to remember there is a network out there besides eBay and the Yahoo groups that are avid collectors.     Bill P.    I want to offer you a possible way to get a little cheaper R-1. I've sent a second picture of one of my fantasy engines. It has a 4-6-4 wheel arrangement that I am told resembles an R-5. It was created using  TYCO's so called GG-1 body that is 9 inches long.( The Varney streamlined electric is 8" long ). I used  4 wheel Mantua power trucks front and back that snap right into the body. I then added 6 dummy drivers ( you could use 8 for the R-1   )that float and move side to side allowing this fantasy engine to take 15" radius track including switch track with no problem. With the double powered trucks pulling power not a problem and I love the "BLACK JACK" paint scheme on the TYCO body.        Now this might not fit your needs, might not follow prototype and dimension wise be wrong but I suggest it as a cheaper idea to make an R-1 especially if you can't find, or afford, a Varney (or even a repro) body as a starting point.                                        Jim H.

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 16134	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/19/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Streamlined Electric [2 Attachments]

Attachments : MNR_202.jpg Don't get me started on cutting up GG-1's :-) Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2011 10:12 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Varney Streamlined Electric [2 Attachments] Jim W, Bill P, Ralph, All. I just wanted to add some information concerning the Varney streamlined pre war electric since it gets a little confusing every time it's discussed. The Varney electric is a 4-8-4 wheel arrangement. It is as noted that it is actually classified an R-1 and from what I'm told only one was made. The problem as to description comes where people see GG-1 associated with it right from Varney paperwork that states SUGGESTIVE of a GG-1 ( no it is not a GG-1 ). Varney wanted to create a streamlined electric that could utilize minimum radius track like 15". I have sent a picture of my Varney Streamlined Electric that was to use a Varney 2-8-0 Consolidation drive cut down according to plans that can be found on www.hoseeker.net. Side rods stayed on. You will also see the ad for SUGGESTIVE of a GG-1. The leading / trailing trucks were to be the Varney pre war 4 wheel passenger trucks. I have paperwork from a number of sources to verify my body as original and not a repro. Years ago I was offered $1500 for it but declined and don't intend to sell it. I know there has been a lot of discussion about prices, whether you believe right or wrong, on certain items. ( No I'm not talking about some big mistakes like 0-4-0 Mantua $100 engines ) People have to remember there is a network out there besides eBay and the Yahoo groups that are avid collectors. Bill P. I want to offer you a possible way to get a little cheaper R-1. I've sent a second picture of one of my fantasy engines. It has a 4-6-4 wheel arrangement that I am told resembles an R-5. It was created using TYCO's so called GG-1 body that is 9 inches long.( The Varney streamlined electric is 8" long ). I used 4 wheel Mantua power trucks front and back that snap right into the body. I then added 6 dummy drivers ( you could use 8 for the R-1 )that float and move side to side allowing this fantasy engine to take 15" radius track including switch track with no problem. With the double powered trucks pulling power not a problem and I love the "BLACK JACK" paint scheme on the TYCO body. Now this might not fit your needs, might not follow prototype and dimension wise be wrong but I suggest it as a cheaper idea to make an R-1 especially if you can't find, or afford, a Varney (or even a repro) body as a starting point. Jim H.

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 16135	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 2/19/2011
Subject: WANTED GG1 SHELLS !! Re: [vintageHO] Varney Streamlined Electric

I hope some folks can help me on this......... I want to gather some GG-1 shells to do creative kit-bashing with......... Plastics would be nice. Any of the fake GG-1's like from Tyco would be fine. I don't need the pantographs, I don't need the correct mechs, I don't care if the shells have poor paint. I'm after the bodies of otherwise throw-away GG-1 and sorta GG-1's to resection and dieselize. Cracked bodies are OK by me as long as the pieces are gathered to send off. Some half-bodies would be fine as well. So if anyone has some orphaned GG-1 or near GG-1's shells they would like to see get used instead of gathering dust, please contact me. Best to ya, Mike Bauers Milwaukee, Wi On Feb 19, 2011, at 1:28 PM, Don Dellmann wrote: > Don't get me started on cutting up GG-1's :-) ..................

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16136	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 2/19/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Streamlined Electric [1 Attachment]

Looks like something from American Motors! On Sat, Feb 19, 2011 at 3:28 PM, Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote:   [Attachment(s) from Don Dellmann included below] Don't get me started on cutting up GG-1's :-) Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2011 10:12 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Varney Streamlined Electric [2 Attachments] Jim W, Bill P, Ralph, All. I just wanted to add some information concerning the Varney streamlined pre war electric since it gets a little confusing every time it's discussed. The Varney electric is a 4-8-4 wheel arrangement. It is as noted that it is actually classified an R-1 and from what I'm told only one was made. The problem as to description comes where people see GG-1 associated with it right from Varney paperwork that states SUGGESTIVE of a GG-1 ( no it is not a GG-1 ). Varney wanted to create a streamlined electric that could utilize minimum radius track like 15". I have sent a picture of my Varney Streamlined Electric that was to use a Varney 2-8-0 Consolidation drive cut down according to plans that can be found on www.hoseeker.net. Side rods stayed on. You will also see the ad for SUGGESTIVE of a GG-1. The leading / trailing trucks were to be the Varney pre war 4 wheel passenger trucks. I have paperwork from a number of sources to verify my body as original and not a repro. Years ago I was offered $1500 for it but declined and don't intend to sell it. I know there has been a lot of discussion about prices, whether you believe right or wrong, on certain items. ( No I'm not talking about some big mistakes like 0-4-0 Mantua $100 engines ) People have to remember there is a network out there besides eBay and the Yahoo groups that are avid collectors. Bill P. I want to offer you a possible way to get a little cheaper R-1. I've sent a second picture of one of my fantasy engines. It has a 4-6-4 wheel arrangement that I am told resembles an R-5. It was created using TYCO's so called GG-1 body that is 9 inches long.( The Varney streamlined electric is 8" long ). I used 4 wheel Mantua power trucks front and back that snap right into the body. I then added 6 dummy drivers ( you could use 8 for the R-1 )that float and move side to side allowing this fantasy engine to take 15" radius track including switch track with no problem. With the double powered trucks pulling power not a problem and I love the "BLACK JACK" paint scheme on the TYCO body. Now this might not fit your needs, might not follow prototype and dimension wise be wrong but I suggest it as a cheaper idea to make an R-1 especially if you can't find, or afford, a Varney (or even a repro) body as a starting point. Jim H. -- Regards, Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16137	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 2/19/2011
Subject: Wow, I won !!!

Attachments : Kemtron HO 1907 Thomas Flyer powered rail truck kit.tiff I just got luck and won something I've lusted after a bit, for some time now....... I get to build a virginal ......... Kemtron HO 1907 Thomas Flyer powered rail truck kit !!!!!!! eBay Item number: 350439718301 I've been suffering under a horrible Cold/Flu for the last week-plus and am too sick to make it to the annual big train show in Madison, Wi this weekend. So I just got back from a short trip to the LHS where I secured a few types of DCC boards to tinker with, eventually fitting them into very small HO speeders with their strobe and flash lighting options. I'm tinkering with power solutions of very tiny 9-vt motors and gearing that will power units like the Jordan 1900's Oldsmobile speeder. But I better not go into those details. I'll attach the Thomas Flyer image from the auction. It looks like it's a few decades old of a kit and I'd prefer to replace the motor with something of today's better quality. This will be built and operated. I never thought I'd be able to actually get one of these. To get the joy of building it as well is a real treat by itself. These days I can put functional lighting in her for night running. Now where can I find some really thin leather to apply to the seats ????? This will be -FUN- !!! Best to ya, Mike Bauers Milwaukee, Wi

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 16138	From: ckinzer@att.net	Date: 2/19/2011
Subject: Re: Wow, I won !!! [1 Attachment]

You sure got a good deal.  Complete kits like this in the box quite often go for over a hundred dollars.  This auction must have slipped under the radar of some folks.   Chuck Kinzer   ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike Bauers To: VintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2011 4:40 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Wow, I won !!! [1 Attachment]   I just got luck and won something I've lusted after a bit, for some time now....... I get to build a virginal ......... Kemtron HO 1907 Thomas Flyer powered rail truck kit !!!!!!! eBay Item number: 350439718301 I've been suffering under a horrible Cold/Flu for the last week-plus and am too sick to make it to the annual big train show in Madison, Wi this weekend. So I just got back from a short trip to the LHS where I secured a few types of DCC boards to tinker with, eventually fitting them into very small HO speeders with their strobe and flash lighting options. I'm tinkering with power solutions of very tiny 9-vt motors and gearing that will power units like the Jordan 1900's Oldsmobile speeder. But I better not go into those details. I'll attach the Thomas Flyer image from the auction. It looks like it's a few decades old of a kit and I'd prefer to replace the motor with something of today's better quality. This will be built and operated. I never thought I'd be able to actually get one of these. To get the joy of building it as well is a real treat by itself. These days I can put functional lighting in her for night running. Now where can I find some really thin leather to apply to the seats ????? This will be -FUN- !!! Best to ya, Mike Bauers Milwaukee, Wi

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16139	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/19/2011
Subject: Re: Wow, I won !!! [1 Attachment]

Mike: Moderator hat on: Many of us can't open Tiff attachments. That's why I ask people only attach .jpg files. Otherwise, just post the link to the eBay site in your message. Moderator hat off. Will we see her run on the layout at Trainfest this fall? Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Bauers" <mwbauers55@...> To: <VintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2011 6:40 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Wow, I won !!! [1 Attachment] > I just got luck and won something I've lusted after a bit, for some > time now....... > > I get to build a virginal ......... > > Kemtron HO 1907 Thomas Flyer powered rail truck kit !!!!!!! > > eBay Item number: 350439718301 > > I've been suffering under a horrible Cold/Flu for the last week-plus > and am too sick to make it to the annual big train show in Madison, Wi > this weekend. So I just got back from a short trip to the LHS where I > secured a few types of DCC boards to tinker with, eventually fitting > them into very small HO speeders with their strobe and flash lighting > options. > > I'm tinkering with power solutions of very tiny 9-vt motors and > gearing that will power units like the Jordan 1900's Oldsmobile > speeder. But I better not go into those details. > > I'll attach the Thomas Flyer image from the auction. > > It looks like it's a few decades old of a kit and I'd prefer to > replace the motor with something of today's better quality. > > This will be built and operated. > > I never thought I'd be able to actually get one of these. To get the > joy of building it as well is a real treat by itself. These days I can > put functional lighting in her for night running. > > Now where can I find some really thin leather to apply to the > seats ????? > > This will be -FUN- !!! > > > Best to ya, > Mike Bauers > Milwaukee, Wi > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16140	From: John Hagen	Date: 2/19/2011
Subject: Wow, Mikie Won

Attachments : Kemtron+HO+1907+Thomas+Flyer+powered+rail+truck+kit[1].jpg Don & Mike   Jpg photo attached fer all to see.   John Hagen

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 16141	From: Dennis Thompson	Date: 2/19/2011
Subject: Re: Wow, Mikie Won [1 Attachment]

Congratulations.  It's nice to see something like this caught and saved.  I remember drooling over those Kemtron ads when I was a kid and had no money.  Ha. In all these years I've never seen a photo of the opened kit much less the real thing in the flesh. Cheers, Dennis At 06:34 PM 2/19/2011, you wrote: [ Attachment(s) from John Hagen included below] Don & Mike   Jpg photo attached fer all to see.   John Hagen Attachment(s) from John Hagen 1 of 1 Photo(s) Kemtron+HO+1907+Thomas+Flyer+powered+rail+truck+kit[1].jpg

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16142	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 2/19/2011
Subject: Re: Wow, I won !!!

I think it may have been because the box was beat-up. The timing sure was good for me! Best to ya, Mike Bauers Milwaukee, Wi On Feb 19, 2011, at 7:30 PM, <ckinzer@...> wrote: > > > You sure got a good deal. Complete kits like this in the box quite > often go for over a hundred dollars. This auction must have slipped > under the radar of some folks. > > Chuck Kinzer > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Mike Bauers > > I just got lucky and won something I've lusted after a bit, for some > time now....... > > I get to build a virginal ......... > > Kemtron HO 1907 Thomas Flyer powered rail truck kit !!!!!!! > > eBay Item number: 350439718301 .................

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16143	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 2/19/2011
Subject: Re: Wow, I won !!!

Attachments : Tiny Drive sample.jpg Kemtron HO 1907 Thomas Flyer powered rail truck kit CROP.jpg Sorry, My screen grab is set to give me .tif for editing wants. I've since made a cropped .jpg I'll attach. Well, I like to make her run on standard DC. But I've already had bad vibes about loosing her to the public at a public showing. She's just too tiny and easy to grab. But i do have several less valuable raw models like a number of Model- T's and larger cars like the fancy big 1927 Lincoln I bought to convert to speeders with my project of slot-car gears and tiny 6-mm 9- vt motors. I could at least do a van with a slightly larger motor to bring to TrainFest. Or one of the Jordan buses made into a Railbus. I've got three different types of those as well as the big Mack Railbus. Should I load up a suitable looking work truck? I could work-tower a Mack Bulldog from a Jordan coal truck. ACTUALLY........ About an hour ago, I presented the observations that a very similar model could be kit-bashed from two of the Jordan Model-T Touring car kits in HOn3, on the Gorre and Dephetid list. I wouldn't mind doing that in HOn3 and HO with the 6-mm motors and a voltage limiter on board......... maybe in a small trailer behind the Reborn Thomas Flyer kit-bash....... say using a Jordan Model-T pick-up truck end for the trailer? Or better, a copy of that made from sheet metal as part of the heat-sink of the voltage limiter. The model-T trailer would be all metal with the voltage limiter as a bulky load under a canvas cover. I want to build lots of goodies with those parts anyway. I'd better order my working supply of the slotcar gears ASAP. I have three sets to prototype with. It's a pair of $1.50 or so gears. You'll love the trick I found online about making the chassis with bent wire rods and tubing axle mounts. It's like building a chassis with side by side, staggered construction staples. So........ I'll let my creative Muse guide me as to which I'll get ready. But I will bring a couple of operating types to Trainfest. A Flyer would be a Hoot to show.......... Related to this, I'll attach a drive picture I found in my 'studies'. Best to ya, Mike Bauers Milwaukee, Wi On Feb 19, 2011, at 8:10 PM, Don Dellmann wrote: > Mike: > > Moderator hat on: > > Many of us can't open Tiff attachments. That's why I ask people > only attach > .jpg files. Otherwise, just post the link to the eBay site in your > message. > > Moderator hat off. > > Will we see her run on the layout at Trainfest this fall? .......

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 16144	From: Chris B	Date: 2/19/2011
Subject: Re: Wow, I won !!! [2 Attachments]

Mike, I'll take a look at that chassis and drive plan if it's ok to steal it, I've got 4 Evans Auto-Railers on my roster that will have to be scratch built, and it sounds promising. Chris B. -----Original Message----- From: Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> Sender: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2011 22:29:34 To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Wow, I won !!! [2 Attachments]

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16145	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 2/19/2011
Subject: Re: Wow, I won !!!

Attachments : Japanese Thomas Flyer Wanna-Be.jpg Chris, I'll document the parts and instruct from the Flyer and make them available. I also have more of the development of that chassis image. The fellow is a modeler in Japan and he built a more compact version of the Thomas Flyer by modeling a more conventional Model-T Touring car. He made the body with some sort of craft clay and used a cast metal hood over the electric motor. When completed, he had an Official inspection being done by TopHats in the back seat and the drier in the usual spot. This was built by one of the HOn30 Japanese Kiso modelers. I'll attach one of the finished images of the model and if you'd like, I can send the set of the rest directly to you. I just checked my images with an 'info' and I see I have captured the original URL as well As for the un-pictured bar and tube chassis I've mentioned. I've saved a picture quite a while ago and didn't ref it properly. So it's a hard find on my computer. I'll assemble an unpowered one in the next couple of days or so to show how simple that can be. I'll later build one that fits the gears and tiny motors I have for those. I'll build it to fit some of the Jordan HO models. I'm hopeful I'll have enough room to power one of those very tiny 1901 [?] Jordan HO Oldsmobile track speeders. it will certainly power a HO Model-T. With the attachment, you'll see that other homemade Japanese chassis in a scratchbuilt Model-T touring car. Best to ya, Mike Bauers Milwaukee, Wi On Feb 19, 2011, at 10:59 PM, Chris B wrote: > Mike, I'll take a look at that chassis and drive plan if it's ok to > steal it, I've got 4 Evans Auto-Railers on my roster that will have > to be scratch built, and it sounds promising. > Chris B.

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 16146	From: Jim Waterman	Date: 2/20/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Streamlined Electric

Jim You should probably call your fantasy machine a P5A modified vs. R-5. In Pennsy parlance a P was a 4-6-4. and an R was a 4-8-4. There was only one Pennsy R, and that was the single R-1 electric prototype we are all referencing. I could see using the Tyco shell with a 2-8-0 drive under it as a surrogate. If you look around, there were a bunch of Trackside Specialties L-6 sideframes made up for the engine kit that never happened. These might be close to the right size/detail, but not exact. The R-1 was a unique (and mighty) machine. Jim

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16147	From: jim heckard	Date: 2/20/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Streamlined Electric

Jim,    It had been mentioned before that I should be calling that fantasy electric a P  instead of  R. Just never got around to doing it. Such a small thing and just always forgotten. My main thing in showing it was to show  with  8 drive wheels under it might be a start for a cheap R-1.                              Jim H ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Waterman To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, February 20, 2011 12:09 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Varney Streamlined Electric   Jim You should probably call your fantasy machine a P5A modified vs. R-5. In Pennsy parlance a P was a 4-6-4. and an R was a 4-8-4. There was only one Pennsy R, and that was the single R-1 electric prototype we are all referencing. I could see using the Tyco shell with a 2-8-0 drive under it as a surrogate. If you look around, there were a bunch of Trackside Specialties L-6 sideframes made up for the engine kit that never happened. These might be close to the right size/detail, but not exact. The R-1 was a unique (and mighty) machine. Jim

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16148	From: joegideon	Date: 2/22/2011
Subject: Re: Avoid this listing! Pleaseee!

Ya never know... Last year, I bought a brass loco from a guy- via eBay- and it arrived in perfect shape, well packed... Last month I bought another. Same guy- almost the same engine(-a CB&Q 2-8-2 by Oriental and a C&NW 2-8-2 by Overland) The second engine wasn't wrapped. He had replaced the foam with foam 'chunks'. In transit, the piping became "caught" in the foam and, on the long, BUMPY trip from N.J. to CA, the loco was almost de-nuded of the injectors and air piping. I thought it was common knowledge that you should wrap a model in plastic of some kind to protect the small stuff. He did it last year. Maybe he forgot??? --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > Hi Guys, > > I do not like to do this, but it has to be done! > > I recently purchased a listing of engines and they came heavily damaged. They > were each wrapped into a single clear plastic bag and then thrown into a large > flat rate box with only a few other empty plastic bags as protection. Needless > to say, everything arrived damaged and in pieces.. Not only was the seller > aggressive and rude.. > > > I returned it.. This is the very first time I have ever returned anything. I was > so disappointed. > > I have just discovered he has re-listed it and has made NO mention of the > damage. or even updated the photos. > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/HO-Scale-Trains-Parts-and-Miscellaneous-/130481827193?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item1e6152ad79 > > > Here are how these engines actually look: > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/sets/72157625726596023/ > > Unbelievable! > > Sean > > > > 1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16149	From: joegideon	Date: 2/22/2011
Subject: Re: The very first Rivarossi production model ever produced just sol

There is an L.V. John Wilkes set- Rivarossi- that has worked its way up to that same neighborhood- $1,300-1,400 -for an engine and 4 or 5 cars. I didn't know Rivarossi was that collectible! --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Nelson" <greenbrier614@...> wrote: > > Wow... 1375 smackers! > > Thanks for posting this. I saw an auction for it in kit form about 2 years ago and had no idea what it was. The seller didn't properly describe it either, so I figured it was a trolley. I save the photos and did my best to enhance them, but they're still pretty rough. > > http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t131/NickelPlate759/Rivarossi%20EMU%202002/RivarossiEMU20021-784x600.jpg > > http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t131/NickelPlate759/Rivarossi%20EMU%202002/RivarossiEMU20022a.jpg > > Nelson > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@> wrote: > > > > Hi Guys! > > Too bad the guy did not list it correctly. I saw it too late and would have told > > him to revise it, but then again I was thinking of bidding..until i saw it > > skyrocket! > > > > Vintage HO Rivarossi Interurban Electric w/ Pantograph > > > > It is their very first model to appear in the first catalog in 1946. > > > > A.E. 2002 1946 EMU 2002 Ferrovie Nord Milano Green > > > > Please see the following page and scroll down approx 3/4 of the page to see the > > history of this piece: > > > > > > http://www.rivarossi-memory.it/ENGLISH_VERSION/Riva_Italian_Locos/Riva_Automot_Elett_2002%20FNM_Eng.htm > > > > > > Sean > >  1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16150	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 2/23/2011
Subject: Re: Avoid this listing! Pleaseee!

Joe,   For steam engines with tons of detail... This is what I try to always do and recomend to sellers shipping my stuff...   Wrap in paper first, then bubble wrap. Finish it off with a plastic shopping bag. The paper protects the bubble wrap from the sharp edges of the engine and the bag catches any small parts that might drop off during transit. Beyond that, I do not car what is used as filler in the box, provided it has some give upon impact and it is tight enough to hold the item in place...even after impact.   I shake (gently, but firmly) each box before I ship it. If I feel movement at all, I open the box and add more filler.   I prefer crumpled paper as it seems to withstand impact and hold firmly. For heavy items though, such as a Varney locomotive.. The filler needs to be firmer, such as peanuts. What I often do is I add a layer of peanuts, put down a barrier sheet of paper or bubble wrap accross the entire surface area, add the item, fill the voids level, add another barrier sheet and then fill the remaining with peanuts. Before i close the box, I make sure the peanut packing is tight, but not too tight.  The paper or bubble wrap layer prevents the item from vibrating to the bottom of the box. I only wish I received my items this way..   Sometimes i screw up, but not often. I admit it when I do and do not ever give the buyer a hard time about it.   Sean   1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! From: joegideon <joegideon@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, February 23, 2011 12:46:02 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Avoid this listing! Pleaseee!   Ya never know... Last year, I bought a brass loco from a guy- via eBay- and it arrived in perfect shape, well packed... Last month I bought another. Same guy- almost the same engine(-a CB&Q 2-8-2 by Oriental and a C&NW 2-8-2 by Overland) The second engine wasn't wrapped. He had replaced the foam with foam 'chunks'. In transit, the piping became "caught" in the foam and, on the long, BUMPY trip from N.J. to CA, the loco was almost de-nuded of the injectors and air piping. I thought it was common knowledge that you should wrap a model in plastic of some kind to protect the small stuff. He did it last year. Maybe he forgot??? --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > Hi Guys, > > I do not like to do this, but it has to be done! > > I recently purchased a listing of engines and they came heavily damaged. They > were each wrapped into a single clear plastic bag and then thrown into a large > flat rate box with only a few other empty plastic bags as protection. Needless > to say, everything arrived damaged and in pieces.. Not only was the seller > aggressive and rude.. > > > I returned it.. This is the very first time I have ever returned anything. I was > so disappointed. > > I have just discovered he has re-listed it and has made NO mention of the > damage. or even updated the photos. > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/HO-Scale-Trains-Parts-and-Miscellaneous-/130481827193?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item1e6152ad79 > > > Here are how these engines actually look: > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/sets/72157625726596023/ > > Unbelievable! > > Sean > > > > 1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16151	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 2/23/2011
Subject: Re: The very first Rivarossi production model ever produced just sol

Joe, Rivarossi is to the Itallians what Lionel and American Flyer is to us Americans.. Many of the early Rivarossi models were sold only in the US market and were not made avaliable to Italy. I have been told this by guys i ship to over there. The seller of this piecs told me all the high bidders were from Italy of this piece.   Go to Germany and it is Fleischmann and Marklin.   Sean     1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! From: joegideon <joegideon@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, February 23, 2011 12:52:34 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: The very first Rivarossi production model ever produced just sold on eBay!   There is an L.V. John Wilkes set- Rivarossi- that has worked its way up to that same neighborhood- $1,300-1,400 -for an engine and 4 or 5 cars. I didn't know Rivarossi was that collectible! --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Nelson" <greenbrier614@...> wrote: > > Wow... 1375 smackers! > > Thanks for posting this. I saw an auction for it in kit form about 2 years ago and had no idea what it was. The seller didn't properly describe it either, so I figured it was a trolley. I save the photos and did my best to enhance them, but they're still pretty rough. > > http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t131/NickelPlate759/Rivarossi%20EMU%202002/RivarossiEMU20021-784x600.jpg > > http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t131/NickelPlate759/Rivarossi%20EMU%202002/RivarossiEMU20022a.jpg > > Nelson > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@> wrote: > > > > Hi Guys! > > Too bad the guy did not list it correctly. I saw it too late and would have told > > him to revise it, but then again I was thinking of bidding..until i saw it > > skyrocket! > > > > Vintage HO Rivarossi Interurban Electric w/ Pantograph > > > > It is their very first model to appear in the first catalog in 1946. > > > > A.E. 2002 1946 EMU 2002 Ferrovie Nord Milano Green > > > > Please see the following page and scroll down approx 3/4 of the page to see the > > history of this piece: > > > > > > http://www.rivarossi-memory.it/ENGLISH_VERSION/Riva_Italian_Locos/Riva_Automot_Elett_2002%20FNM_Eng.htm > > > > > > Sean > >  1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16152	From: Nelson	Date: 2/23/2011
Subject: Re: The very first Rivarossi production model ever produced just sol

I figured these were collectible because the LV John Wilkes is a rare model. I don't think it's worth this kind of money, even with the coaches, but when collectors get involved all bets are off. I hope this version of their Pacific doesn't have their magic melting motor mount. Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > Joe, > Rivarossi is to the Itallians what Lionel and American Flyer is to us > Americans.. Many of the early Rivarossi models were sold only in the US market > and were not made avaliable to Italy. I have been told this by guys i ship to > over there. The seller of this piecs told me all the high bidders were from > Italy of this piece. > > Go to Germany and it is Fleischmann and Marklin. > > Sean > > 1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! > > > > > ________________________________ > From: joegideon <joegideon@...> > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wed, February 23, 2011 12:52:34 AM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: The very first Rivarossi production model ever produced > just sold on eBay! > >   > There is an L.V. John Wilkes set- Rivarossi- that has worked its way up to that > same neighborhood- $1,300-1,400 -for an engine and 4 or 5 cars. I didn't know > Rivarossi was that collectible!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16153	From: jim heckard	Date: 2/23/2011
Subject: Re: The very first Rivarossi production model ever produced just sol

Nelson,          Three years ago I sold an Overland Factory Painted John Wilkes Pacific and tender ( no cars ) for over $1400. I had originally paid $995 for it brand new and hardly ever ran it. Like you said when real collectors get involved you never know.        Many years ago I remember an American Flyer green tank car ( forgot the name on the car but can go back to the HOSC&H_SIG newsletter to find exactly what it was.) The car was in original box but had 4 BROKEN steps and went for $1385 Believe it or not.                          Jim H     ----- Original Message ----- From: Nelson To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2011 12:00 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: The very first Rivarossi production model ever produced just sold on eBay!   I figured these were collectible because the LV John Wilkes is a rare model. I don't think it's worth this kind of money, even with the coaches, but when collectors get involved all bets are off. I hope this version of their Pacific doesn't have their magic melting motor mount. Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > Joe, > Rivarossi is to the Itallians what Lionel and American Flyer is to us > Americans.. Many of the early Rivarossi models were sold only in the US market > and were not made avaliable to Italy. I have been told this by guys i ship to > over there. The seller of this piecs told me all the high bidders were from > Italy of this piece. > > Go to Germany and it is Fleischmann and Marklin. > > Sean > > 1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! > > > > > ________________________________ > From: joegideon <joegideon@...> > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wed, February 23, 2011 12:52:34 AM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: The very first Rivarossi production model ever produced > just sold on eBay! > >   > There is an L.V. John Wilkes set- Rivarossi- that has worked its way up to that > same neighborhood- $1,300-1,400 -for an engine and 4 or 5 cars. I didn't know > Rivarossi was that collectible!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16154	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 2/23/2011
Subject: Re: Avoid this listing! Pleaseee!

Sean (and group), I tend to pack that way myself, using an inner wrap of foam sheet instead of paper (Reason being is that if the inside of the package gets wet, the paper can damage some kinds of trains). However, it all means nothing if the post office is late feeding the mail handling gorillas. Couple weeks ago I sold a Bachmann 4-4-0 Jupiter on eBay. Packed it as well as one would expect it to be. Buyer emailed me and informed me the engine was severely damaged. He even pointed out this had to be rough postal handling, as he noted the engine was packed well. Post Office naturally refused responsibility (I don't offer insurance, as postal insurance is much like a lottery the way it is run!), so the buyer bought some parts to fix the engine, got 'em direct from Bachmann. I even refunded the cost of these parts. Got positive feedback, and he's happy, which was the main concern. I do think Sean's seller that packed those locomotives so poorly, needs some education in social skills! -Steve Neubaum --- On Wed, 2/23/11, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: From: Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Avoid this listing! Pleaseee! To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, February 23, 2011, 7:45 AM   Joe,   For steam engines with tons of detail... This is what I try to always do and recomend to sellers shipping my stuff...   Wrap in paper first, then bubble wrap. Finish it off with a plastic shopping bag. The paper protects the bubble wrap from the sharp edges of the engine and the bag catches any small parts that might drop off during transit. Beyond that, I do not car what is used as filler in the box, provided it has some give upon impact and it is tight enough to hold the item in place...even after impact.   I shake (gently, but firmly) each box before I ship it. If I feel movement at all, I open the box and add more filler.   I prefer crumpled paper as it seems to withstand impact and hold firmly. For heavy items though, such as a Varney locomotive.. The filler needs to be firmer, such as peanuts. What I often do is I add a layer of peanuts, put down a barrier sheet of paper or bubble wrap accross the entire surface area, add the item, fill the voids level, add another barrier sheet and then fill the remaining with peanuts. Before i close the box, I make sure the peanut packing is tight, but not too tight.  The paper or bubble wrap layer prevents the item from vibrating to the bottom of the box. I only wish I received my items this way..   Sometimes i screw up, but not often. I admit it when I do and do not ever give the buyer a hard time about it.   Sean   1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! From: joegideon <joegideon@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, February 23, 2011 12:46:02 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Avoid this listing! Pleaseee!   Ya never know... Last year, I bought a brass loco from a guy- via eBay- and it arrived in perfect shape, well packed... Last month I bought another. Same guy- almost the same engine(-a CB&Q 2-8-2 by Oriental and a C&NW 2-8-2 by Overland) The second engine wasn't wrapped. He had replaced the foam with foam 'chunks'. In transit, the piping became "caught" in the foam and, on the long, BUMPY trip from N.J. to CA, the loco was almost de-nuded of the injectors and air piping. I thought it was common knowledge that you should wrap a model in plastic of some kind to protect the small stuff. He did it last year. Maybe he forgot??? --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > Hi Guys, > > I do not like to do this, but it has to be done! > > I recently purchased a listing of engines and they came heavily damaged. They > were each wrapped into a single clear plastic bag and then thrown into a large > flat rate box with only a few other empty plastic bags as protection. Needless > to say, everything arrived damaged and in pieces.. Not only was the seller > aggressive and rude.. > > > I returned it.. This is the very first time I have ever returned anything. I was > so disappointed. > > I have just discovered he has re-listed it and has made NO mention of the > damage. or even updated the photos. > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/HO-Scale-Trains-Parts-and-Miscellaneous-/130481827193?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item1e6152ad79 > > > Here are how these engines actually look: > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/sets/72157625726596023/ > > Unbelievable! > > Sean > > > > 1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16155	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 2/23/2011
Subject: Dual Uncoupling Ramps???

Group, I have had an "interesting" idea for those of us who use mostly Mantua couplers, but also some Kadee equipped cars. I have a few sidings I would like to uncouple either Mantua or Kadee equipped cars. Space is at a high premium, so I got to thinking of a "dual" uncoupler. I was brainstorming (albeit under the influence of my pain meds for arthritis and degenerative disc disorder), a way to uncouple both, at the same place: I mentioned a few weeks ago my own uncoupling ramps I was making. Basically 1/2" wide brass strip curved upwards and screwed into the roadbed at either end of the strip. Anyone thinking if it would be possible to take a basic small magnet, such as those found on refrigerators, cut them to size, and glue 'em under the apex of that Mantua uncoupler strip I make? Around the beginning of the school year, I have seen small circular magnets meant for kids to post things inside their lockers. If I could find one about 1/2" diameter or slightly smaller, and maybe 3/32" thick, I am thinking those would work. As I use EZ Track, I may be able to "trench" it into the plastic roadbed a bit, too, if I can't get the desired thickness. Anyone think there is merit to this idea, or should I just give it up? Any thoughts? -Steve Neubaum

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16156	From: Donald R. Staton	Date: 2/24/2011
Subject: Re: Dual Uncoupling Ramps???

Kadee magnets are polarized crosswise.  You can break one into two pieces for a shorter ramp and then glue it under the brass strip and bury it into the ties if necessary.  Remember the top of the magnet should be about the same elevation as the top of the rail...  In really critical places you could use the electro-magnet ramp that buries below the track...  Just a couple more ideas to think on. Don Staton in Va. Beach ==================================================================================================== On 2/24/2011 12:32 AM, Stephen Neubaum wrote:   Group, I have had an "interesting" idea for those of us who use mostly Mantua couplers, but also some Kadee equipped cars. I have a few sidings I would like to uncouple either Mantua or Kadee equipped cars. Space is at a high premium, so I got to thinking of a "dual" uncoupler. I was brainstorming (albeit under the influence of my pain meds for arthritis and degenerative disc disorder), a way to uncouple both, at the same place: I mentioned a few weeks ago my own uncoupling ramps I was making. Basically 1/2" wide brass strip curved upwards and screwed into the roadbed at either end of the strip. Anyone thinking if it would be possible to take a basic small magnet, such as those found on refrigerators, cut them to size, and glue 'em under the apex of that Mantua uncoupler strip I make? Around the beginning of the school year, I have seen small circular magnets meant for kids to post things inside their lockers. If I could find one about 1/2" diameter or slightly smaller, and maybe 3/32" thick, I am thinking those would work. As I use EZ Track, I may be able to "trench" it into the plastic roadbed a bit, too, if I can't get the desired thickness. Anyone think there is merit to this idea, or should I just give it up? Any thoughts? -Steve Neubaum

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16157	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 2/24/2011
Subject: Socket wrenches you should get.

Hi Guys,   This listing is not mine, but I thought I would share the listing. I have two sets of my own and I must say they are extremely handy and worth the price paid here. However I think the sellers shipping is a bit much for such a small item, but for ~ $11 total, it is still a good buy. Beats fumbling around with anything else and they never round the bolts.   http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270710945860&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:US:1123   If anyone is looking for a socket set, these are the type you want to have. I have yet to come accross an HO model that did not fit one of these four sockets... Not that i am pushing this particular sale...just the socket set as it is a great set to have for any modeler.   Sean   1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16158	From: Wobbly913	Date: 2/24/2011
Subject: Re: Socket wrenches you should get.

For what it is worth Morris lists these sockets for $2.90 each and $13.75 for the set plus shipping. --- On Thu, 2/24/11, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: From: Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Socket wrenches you should get. To: yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com, vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, February 24, 2011, 7:04 AM Hi Guys,   This listing is not mine, but I thought I would share the listing. I have two sets of my own and I must say they are extremely handy and worth the price paid here. However I think the sellers shipping is a bit much for such a small item, but for ~ $11 total, it is still a good buy. Beats fumbling around with anything else and they never round the bolts.   http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270710945860&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:US:1123   If anyone is looking for a socket set, these are the type you want to have. I have yet to come accross an HO model that did not fit one of these four sockets... Not that i am pushing this particular sale...just the socket set as it is a great set to have for any modeler.   Sean   1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16159	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 2/24/2011
Subject: Re: Socket wrenches you should get.

That's good to know..  I was not sure if they were still in buisness or not.   Sean   1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! From: Wobbly913 <wobbly913@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, February 24, 2011 10:18:29 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Socket wrenches you should get.   For what it is worth Morris lists these sockets for $2.90 each and $13.75 for the set plus shipping. --- On Thu, 2/24/11, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: From: Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Socket wrenches you should get. To: yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com, vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, February 24, 2011, 7:04 AM Hi Guys,   This listing is not mine, but I thought I would share the listing. I have two sets of my own and I must say they are extremely handy and worth the price paid here. However I think the sellers shipping is a bit much for such a small item, but for ~ $11 total, it is still a good buy. Beats fumbling around with anything else and they never round the bolts.   http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270710945860&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:US:1123   If anyone is looking for a socket set, these are the type you want to have. I have yet to come accross an HO model that did not fit one of these four sockets... Not that i am pushing this particular sale...just the socket set as it is a great set to have for any modeler.   Sean   1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16160	From: Nelson	Date: 2/24/2011
Subject: Re: The very first Rivarossi production model ever produced just sol

That Overland JW must have been a thing of beauty, and $1400 is a lot of money but doesn't seem that unreasonable for it. With collectors, condition is everything, so I'm surprised that tanker would go for that much with broken stirrups. But that still doesn't beat the plain cardboard box from an uncatalogued Sears Lionel set that went for somewhere around $2000 a few years ago. Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> wrote: > > Nelson, > > Three years ago I sold an Overland Factory Painted John Wilkes Pacific and tender ( no cars ) for over $1400. I had originally paid $995 for it brand new and hardly ever ran it. Like you said when real collectors get involved you never know. > > Many years ago I remember an American Flyer green tank car ( forgot the name on the car but can go back to the HOSC&H_SIG newsletter to find exactly what it was.) The car was in original box but had 4 BROKEN steps and went for $1385 Believe it or not. > > Jim H > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Nelson > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2011 12:00 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: The very first Rivarossi production model ever produced just sold on eBay! > > > > I figured these were collectible because the LV John Wilkes is a rare model. I don't think it's worth this kind of money, even with the coaches, but when collectors get involved all bets are off. I hope this version of their Pacific doesn't have their magic melting motor mount. > > Nelson > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@> wrote: > > > > Joe, > > Rivarossi is to the Itallians what Lionel and American Flyer is to us > > Americans.. Many of the early Rivarossi models were sold only in the US market > > and were not made avaliable to Italy. I have been told this by guys i ship to > > over there. The seller of this piecs told me all the high bidders were from > > Italy of this piece. > > > > Go to Germany and it is Fleischmann and Marklin. > > > > Sean > > > > 1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: joegideon <joegideon@> > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Wed, February 23, 2011 12:52:34 AM > > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: The very first Rivarossi production model ever produced > > just sold on eBay! > > > >  > > There is an L.V. John Wilkes set- Rivarossi- that has worked its way up to that > > same neighborhood- $1,300-1,400 -for an engine and 4 or 5 cars. I didn't know > > Rivarossi was that collectible! >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16161	From: John H	Date: 2/24/2011
Subject: Re: Socket wrenches you should get.

My set of Morris sockets are something in the area of 40+ (maybe even 50+, I really can't remember exactly when I purchased them but it was some time before January, 1961) years old. I guess in such a small size maybe the only truly amazing part about that is that I still have all four in the original pouch! But when I went searching about a year or two ago in response to an inquiry from one of these groups about small sockets, I was very pleasantly surprised to find Morris still in business, still in the USA and still making the same, quality product at reasonable prices. So if I should ever require replacements, I WILL return to Morris. John Hagen --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > That's good to know..  I was not sure if they were still in buisness or not. > > Sean >  1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! > > > > > ________________________________ > From: Wobbly913 <wobbly913@...> > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thu, February 24, 2011 10:18:29 AM > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Socket wrenches you should get. > >   > For what it is worth Morris lists these sockets for $2.90 each and $13.75 for > the set plus shipping. > > --- On Thu, 2/24/11, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > > >From: Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> > >Subject: [vintageHO] Socket wrenches you should get. > >To: yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com, vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > >Date: Thursday, February 24, 2011, 7:04 AM > > > > > > > > > > > >Hi Guys, > > > >This listing is not mine, but I thought I would share the listing. I have two > >sets of my own and I must say they are extremely handy and worth the price paid > >here. However I think the sellers shipping is a bit much for such a small item, > >but for ~ $11 total, it is still a good buy. Beats fumbling around with anything > >else and they never round the bolts. > > > > > >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270710945860&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:US:1123 > > > > > >If anyone is looking for a socket set, these are the type you want to have. I > >have yet to come accross an HO model that did not fit one of these four > >sockets... Not that i am pushing this particular sale...just the socket set as > >it is a great set to have for any modeler. > > > >Sean > > 1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16162	From: John H	Date: 2/24/2011
Subject: OSTUCO Decals in the mail

It is amazing how much of a project simple things can be when one has their movements restricted! The most basic things end up being a real pain, especially when one is not the most organized person. Anyway they are in the mail today. Watch for a large manila envelope (out of 9.5 X 6.5's --- naturally). BTW, you Walthers gon guys will note a smaller set of reporting marks and car number over towards the right end of the set. These are for the one end of the car. I did not include any in with the Varney set as the Varney's did not have end data on them, although you could use the ones from the Walthers area. If any one has any problems applying the decals and need some replacement pieces, let me know and I will replace them for the cost of postage. Thank you all for hanging with me on what started out to be a "quickie" project. John Hagen

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16163	From: tom leen	Date: 2/24/2011
Subject: Re: Dual Uncoupling Ramps???

Hi Steve, If it works, I think you've got an ingenious idea there. Then if it works, you could obtain a patten on them and find a manufacturer and distributor. Tom --- On Thu, 2/24/11, Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote: From: Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Dual Uncoupling Ramps??? To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, February 24, 2011, 5:32 AM   Group, I have had an "interesting" idea for those of us who use mostly Mantua couplers, but also some Kadee equipped cars. I have a few sidings I would like to uncouple either Mantua or Kadee equipped cars. Space is at a high premium, so I got to thinking of a "dual" uncoupler. I was brainstorming (albeit under the influence of my pain meds for arthritis and degenerative disc disorder), a way to uncouple both, at the same place: I mentioned a few weeks ago my own uncoupling ramps I was making. Basically 1/2" wide brass strip curved upwards and screwed into the roadbed at either end of the strip. Anyone thinking if it would be possible to take a basic small magnet, such as those found on refrigerators, cut them to size, and glue 'em under the apex of that Mantua uncoupler strip I make? Around the beginning of the school year, I have seen small circular magnets meant for kids to post things inside their lockers. If I could find one about 1/2" diameter or slightly smaller, and maybe 3/32" thick, I am thinking those would work. As I use EZ Track, I may be able to "trench" it into the plastic roadbed a bit, too, if I can't get the desired thickness. Anyone think there is merit to this idea, or should I just give it up? Any thoughts? -Steve Neubaum

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16164	From: hooligan	Date: 2/24/2011
Subject: Re: OSTUCO Decals in the mail

Well done John . Now rest up . Stay warm . Henry H. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "John H" <sprinthag@...> wrote: > > It is amazing how much of a project simple things can be when one has their movements restricted! The most basic things end up being a real pain, especially when one is not the most organized person. > > Anyway they are in the mail today. Watch for a large manila envelope (out of 9.5 X 6.5's --- naturally). > > BTW, you Walthers gon guys will note a smaller set of reporting marks and car number over towards the right end of the set. These are for the one end of the car. I did not include any in with the Varney set as the Varney's did not have end data on them, although you could use the ones from the Walthers area. > > If any one has any problems applying the decals and need some replacement pieces, let me know and I will replace them for the cost of postage. > > Thank you all for hanging with me on what started out to be a "quickie" project. > > John Hagen >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16165	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 2/24/2011
Subject: Has anyone seen the Toonerville listing?

Crazy numbers for a broken piece!   ENDING SOON Toonerville Trolley painted Kemtron HO brass-very RARE Toonerville Trolley painted Kemtron HO brass-very RARE Sean   1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16166	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/24/2011
Subject: Re: Has anyone seen the Toonerville listing?

At least you can't fault the seller, it IS rare, and he DID open the bidding at 99 cents. Actually it doesn't surprise me all that much. I wonder if Jack P. was one of the bidders :-) Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sean Naylor" <a69mustang4me@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2011 8:09 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Has anyone seen the Toonerville listing? Crazy numbers for a broken piece! ENDING SOON Toonerville Trolley painted Kemtron HO brass-very RARE Toonerville Trolley painted Kemtron HO brass-very RARE Sean 1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16167	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 2/24/2011
Subject: Re: Has anyone seen the Toonerville listing?

WOW! That FREE SHIPPING really works, doesn't it? On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 10:09 PM, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote:   Crazy numbers for a broken piece!   ENDING SOON Toonerville Trolley painted Kemtron HO brass-very RARE Toonerville Trolley painted Kemtron HO brass-very RARE Sean   1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! -- Regards, Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16168	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 2/24/2011
Subject: Re: Has anyone seen the Toonerville listing?

LET'S PIRATE THEM !!!! Best to ya, Mike Bauers Milwaukee, Wi On Feb 24, 2011, at 8:09 PM, Sean Naylor wrote: Crazy numbers for a broken piece!   ENDING SOON Toonerville Trolley painted Kemtron HO brass-very RARE Toonerville Trolley painted Kemtron HO brass-very RARE

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16169	From: erieberk	Date: 2/25/2011
Subject: Re: Has anyone seen the Toonerville listing?

It appears that the bidding stopped (at 15:59 PST) about 3 hours before the auction was over (at 19:00 PST), so it was not as if it were one of those up to the last minute bidding wars, although it was heavy. The loser placed his last bid about an hour and 47 minutes before the winner placed his last bid. Don't know how long this agreement with Fontaine Fox was in effect, which may have had something to do with the length of the production run -- which may not have been that long or as long as Kemtron's regular runs of their goods. Looks like the top bidders knew what they were after, and must have known the rarity of it. I don't care if only two were produced, you'd never see me bid that high on something like this < g >, but then these guys must really be into Kemtron stuff. And to think, it originally went for $25 (powered) when new. A dummy could be had for $11.50. That the power truck is broken is not all that consequential, since it's the trolley car body that gives this piece its value. While not exactly common today, the power truck can be much more easily found than the Toonerville Trolley body. Kemtron used the Lindsay KL766 power unit with these trolley cars -- this unit otherwise know as the "tiny but Mighty" Teaspoon of Power, which was also used in a number of other Kemtron offerings or sold by individually, for a much extended time period. As we know, Lindsay motors of all types can still be found on eBay today just by waiting long enough for them. The KL766 Teaspoon of Power was used in both the SC-21 Section Car (powered "speeder" car for the three-piece work train, also having two 4-wheel flat cars -- one loaded), and the X-17 Powered Box Car which could be used to power a short old-time (very early 1800's) train having an engine and/or tender too small to install a motor in. So, it's quite possible these guys knew a replacement power unit truck would not be nearly as hard to come by as this trolley car. Ray F. W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > At least you can't fault the seller, it IS rare, and he DID open the bidding > at 99 cents. > > Actually it doesn't surprise me all that much. I wonder if Jack P. was one > of the bidders :-) > > Don > > Don Dellmann > don.dellmann@... > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ > http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction > Owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Sean Naylor" <a69mustang4me@...> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2011 8:09 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Has anyone seen the Toonerville listing? > > > Crazy numbers for a broken piece! > > ENDING SOON > > Toonerville Trolley painted Kemtron HO brass-very RARE > > > Toonerville Trolley painted Kemtron HO brass-very RARE > > Sean > 1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16170	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 2/25/2011
Subject: Re: Has anyone seen the Toonerville listing?

I was following the offer from the start. I was certain it was going to be an interesting result. Were the originals offered paint and decorated from Kemtron? Best to ya, Mike Bauers Milwaukee, Wi On Feb 25, 2011, at 6:06 AM, erieberk wrote: > It appears that the bidding stopped (at 15:59 PST) about 3 hours > before the auction was over (at 19:00 PST), so it was not as if it > were one of those up to the last minute bidding wars, although it > was heavy. The loser placed his last bid about an hour and 47 > minutes before the winner placed his last bid. ................. > The KL766 Teaspoon of Power was used in both the SC-21 Section Car > (powered "speeder" car for the three-piece work train, also having > two 4-wheel flat cars -- one loaded), and the X-17 Powered Box Car > which could be used to power a short old-time (very early 1800's) > train having an engine and/or tender too small to install a motor > in. So, it's quite possible these guys knew a replacement power > unit truck would not be nearly as hard to come by as this trolley car. > > Ray F. W. > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> > wrote: >> >> At least you can't fault the seller, it IS rare, and he DID open >> the bidding >> at 99 cents. ................

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16171	From: erieberk	Date: 2/25/2011
Subject: Re: Has anyone seen the Toonerville listing?

Speaking of Lindsay power trucks -- of which one model was used to power the Toonerville Trolley -- there is a Lindsay power truck up on eBay right now, ending today in about 14 hours (at 18:43:55 PST), indended for use with Globe/Athearn F7's. Kemtron acquired the Lindsay line in late November of 1956, which is why these motors were used in Kemtron products rather than any other make. The self-contained power truck up on ebay presently (#230587810558), looks to possibly be the popular L-740 which I believe was used on their 1600 HP Diesel ALCo Road Units, or one very similar (this power truck now on e-Bay lacks the flywheel of the other one mentioned). The KL-766 Teaspoon of Power was extremely popular as it was very versatile, so the odds of one appearing for auction should be fairly good. Ray F. W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "erieberk" <erieberk@...> wrote: > > It appears that the bidding stopped (at 15:59 PST) about 3 hours before the auction was over (at 19:00 PST), so it was not as if it were one of those up to the last minute bidding wars, although it was heavy. The loser placed his last bid about an hour and 47 minutes before the winner placed his last bid. > > Don't know how long this agreement with Fontaine Fox was in effect, which may have had something to do with the length of the production run -- which may not have been that long or as long as Kemtron's regular runs of their goods. > > Looks like the top bidders knew what they were after, and must have known the rarity of it. I don't care if only two were produced, you'd never see me bid that high on something like this < g >, but then these guys must really be into Kemtron stuff. And to think, it originally went for $25 (powered) when new. A dummy could be had for $11.50. > > That the power truck is broken is not all that consequential, since it's the trolley car body that gives this piece its value. While not exactly common today, the power truck can be much more easily found than the Toonerville Trolley body. Kemtron used the Lindsay KL766 power unit with these trolley cars -- this unit otherwise know as the "tiny but Mighty" Teaspoon of Power, which was also used in a number of other Kemtron offerings or sold by individually, for a much extended time period. As we know, Lindsay motors of all types can still be found on eBay today just by waiting long enough for them. > > The KL766 Teaspoon of Power was used in both the SC-21 Section Car (powered "speeder" car for the three-piece work train, also having two 4-wheel flat cars -- one loaded), and the X-17 Powered Box Car which could be used to power a short old-time (very early 1800's) train having an engine and/or tender too small to install a motor in. So, it's quite possible these guys knew a replacement power unit truck would not be nearly as hard to come by as this trolley car. > > Ray F. W. > > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@> wrote: > > > > At least you can't fault the seller, it IS rare, and he DID open the bidding > > at 99 cents. > > > > Actually it doesn't surprise me all that much. I wonder if Jack P. was one > > of the bidders :-) > > > > Don > > > > Don Dellmann > > don.dellmann@ > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ > > http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction > > Owner > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Sean Naylor" <a69mustang4me@> > > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2011 8:09 PM > > Subject: [vintageHO] Has anyone seen the Toonerville listing? > > > > > > Crazy numbers for a broken piece! > > > > ENDING SOON > > > > Toonerville Trolley painted Kemtron HO brass-very RARE > > > > > > Toonerville Trolley painted Kemtron HO brass-very RARE > > > > Sean > > 1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16172	From: Richard	Date: 2/25/2011
Subject: Message for Jim Heckard about a Gilbert 0-6-0

Hello Jim, I'm in the process of trying to restore a Gilbert #433 Pennsy 0-6-0 Loco (HO gauge) and came across the parts info that you supplied to HOSeeker. For some unknown reason the Item numbers on the parts explosion page do not follow correctly on the parts list page, so it makes it difficult to identify missing parts. Is there any chance that you might be able to post a copy of the parts listing that corresponds to the parts explosion diagram? Also I am trying to locate missing parts for this engine so any help locating parts would be awesome. Some of the missing major items are: Front pilot, motor with worm gear and parts to attach rear of main frame to cab (just for starters). Thanks for any assistance you or others can provide. Richard in Vermont

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16173	From: jim heckard	Date: 2/25/2011
Subject: Re: Message for Jim Heckard about a Gilbert 0-6-0

Richard,          I'll try to help you a little different way.   Google   The Gilbert American Flyer HO Index  When it come up click on the first topic.  The Gilbert American Flyer Ho Index    and the home page will come up.     Go down the left side to   Gilbert HO Repair Diagrams at MY Flyer Trains. Org and click on it . Diagrams / parts list will come up. Go to the bottom of page 2 and you will find papers 433-1, 433-2, 433-3 and on page 3 433-4. ( Diagrams, parts list, etc. ) These should allow you to match the diagram with parts numbers.        As for the paper on hoseeker. First even though my name is on it I don't remember sending it in. It even has Polk Hobby at the bottom of one page. I sent lots of paperwork in to hoseeker but this has me stumped and I can see no way to match numbers with parts on those pages.      Hope you are able to follow what I just wrote above to get to what you want. If not get back to me at jimheck@... As for parts I'm sorry I have none. I MIGHT be able to put you in touch with a Gilbert / AF collector after your sure what you want and can't get from eBay..                                                                     Jim H ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, February 25, 2011 11:37 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Message for Jim Heckard about a Gilbert 0-6-0   Hello Jim, I'm in the process of trying to restore a Gilbert #433 Pennsy 0-6-0 Loco (HO gauge) and came across the parts info that you supplied to HOSeeker. For some unknown reason the Item numbers on the parts explosion page do not follow correctly on the parts list page, so it makes it difficult to identify missing parts. Is there any chance that you might be able to post a copy of the parts listing that corresponds to the parts explosion diagram? Also I am trying to locate missing parts for this engine so any help locating parts would be awesome. Some of the missing major items are: Front pilot, motor with worm gear and parts to attach rear of main frame to cab (just for starters). Thanks for any assistance you or others can provide. Richard in Vermont

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16174	From: toytrain13	Date: 2/25/2011
Subject: American Beauty truck side frame

Hi guys- Can anyone help me obtain one (1) truck side frame for the American Beauty passenger truck? I have all the parts for a pair of trucks except for this one piece. I'd greatly appreciate help with this. Also, if anyone needs the truck springs for Central Valley passenger trucks, or for American Beauty trucks, I will send them what they need, gratis. The good folks at Central Valley were kind enough to send me a bunch of these! Regards- Richard White

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16175	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 2/25/2011
Subject: Re: American Beauty truck side frame

Rich,   I may have one.. I'll have to look.. I am not sure though.   Sean   1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! From: toytrain13 <toytrain13@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, February 25, 2011 3:26:56 PM Subject: [vintageHO] American Beauty truck side frame   Hi guys- Can anyone help me obtain one (1) truck side frame for the American Beauty passenger truck? I have all the parts for a pair of trucks except for this one piece. I'd greatly appreciate help with this. Also, if anyone needs the truck springs for Central Valley passenger trucks, or for American Beauty trucks, I will send them what they need, gratis. The good folks at Central Valley were kind enough to send me a bunch of these! Regards- Richard White

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16176	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/25/2011
Subject: Re: OSTUCO Decals in the mail

----- Original Message ----- From: "John H" <sprinthag@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2011 3:08 PM Subject: [vintageHO] OSTUCO Decals in the mail > It is amazing how much of a project simple things can be when one has > their movements restricted! The most basic things end up being a real > pain, especially when one is not the most organized person. > > Anyway they are in the mail today. Watch for a large manila envelope (out > of 9.5 X 6.5's --- naturally). > > BTW, you Walthers gon guys will note a smaller set of reporting marks and > car number over towards the right end of the set. These are for the one > end of the car. I did not include any in with the Varney set as the > Varney's did not have end data on them, although you could use the ones > from the Walthers area. > > If any one has any problems applying the decals and need some replacement > pieces, let me know and I will replace them for the cost of postage. > > Thank you all for hanging with me on what started out to be a "quickie" > project. > > John Hagen Got them today, (one advantage of living in the same town as John <G>) look excellent. Now I just need to ask has anyone decided what's the best yellow for the car. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16177	From: Richard	Date: 2/26/2011
Subject: Re: Message for Jim Heckard about a Gilbert 0-6-0

Hi Jim, Your reply is much appreciated. How strange that your name appeared on HOseeker's diagram without your knowledge. That's a real head scratcher. I will check out the sources your mentioned for diagrams and missing parts. I have since identified more specifically what I need. Chassis spacer p/n P10339, Shouldered screw p/n PA9268 and perhaps a motor p/n X10121. I'm hoping that these three items will get her running again. With regard to the motor, I would be happy with just the worm gear from a bad motor, then I could press it on a can motor which would hopefully quiet the running down a bit. Richard --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> wrote: > > Richard, > > I'll try to help you a little different way. Google The Gilbert American Flyer HO Index When it come up click on the first topic. The Gilbert American Flyer Ho Index and the home page will come up. Go down the left side to Gilbert HO Repair Diagrams at MY Flyer Trains. Org and click on it . Diagrams / parts list will come up. Go to the bottom of page 2 and you will find papers 433-1, 433-2, 433-3 and on page 3 433-4. ( Diagrams, parts list, etc. ) These should allow you to match the diagram with parts numbers. > > As for the paper on hoseeker. First even though my name is on it I don't remember sending it in. It even has Polk Hobby at the bottom of one page. I sent lots of paperwork in to hoseeker but this has me stumped and I can see no way to match numbers with parts on those pages. > > Hope you are able to follow what I just wrote above to get to what you want. If not get back to me at jimheck@... As for parts I'm sorry I have none. I MIGHT be able to put you in touch with a Gilbert / AF collector after your sure what you want and can't get from eBay.. > > Jim H > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Richard > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Friday, February 25, 2011 11:37 AM > Subject: [vintageHO] Message for Jim Heckard about a Gilbert 0-6-0 > > > > Hello Jim, > I'm in the process of trying to restore a Gilbert #433 Pennsy 0-6-0 Loco (HO gauge) and came across the parts info that you supplied to HOSeeker. For some unknown reason the Item numbers on the parts explosion page do not follow correctly on the parts list page, so it makes it difficult to identify missing parts. Is there any chance that you might be able to post a copy of the parts listing that corresponds to the parts explosion diagram? Also I am trying to locate missing parts for this engine so any help locating parts would be awesome. Some of the missing major items are: Front pilot, motor with worm gear and parts to attach rear of main frame to cab (just for starters). Thanks for any assistance you or others can provide. > Richard in Vermont >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16178	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 2/26/2011
Subject: Re: OSTUCO Decals in the mail

One of the guys suggested Tamiya Lemon Yellow.  I just ordered some from my Local Train Buddy. Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: don.dellmann@... Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2011 22:10:49 -0600 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] OSTUCO Decals in the mail   ----- Original Message ----- From: "John H" <sprinthag@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2011 3:08 PM Subject: [vintageHO] OSTUCO Decals in the mail > It is amazing how much of a project simple things can be when one has > their movements restricted! The most basic things end up being a real > pain, especially when one is not the most organized person. > > Anyway they are in the mail today. Watch for a large manila envelope (out > of 9.5 X 6.5's --- naturally). > > BTW, you Walthers gon guys will note a smaller set of reporting marks and > car number over towards the right end of the set. These are for the one > end of the car. I did not include any in with the Varney set as the > Varney's did not have end data on them, although you could use the ones > from the Walthers area. > > If any one has any problems applying the decals and need some replacement > pieces, let me know and I will replace them for the cost of postage. > > Thank you all for hanging with me on what started out to be a "quickie" > project. > > John Hagen Got them today, (one advantage of living in the same town as John <G>) look excellent. Now I just need to ask has anyone decided what's the best yellow for the car. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16179	From: jim heckard	Date: 2/26/2011
Subject: Re: Message for Jim Heckard about a Gilbert 0-6-0

Hi Richard,        I hope you were able to find the information that I wrote about. It seems to me you need a lot of parts and it might be better to buy an entirely different item. Till you track down the parts you need the cost of all of them might be more then to get a complete one off Ebay or elsewhere.      I wrote an email to Larry Stevenson / hoseeker about the paper for the Gilbert 0-6-0 on his site. Larry makes very few mistakes and is very meticulous. He assures me it came with a large pile of paperwork I sent him back in 2008. As I mentioned I did send a lot of paperwork( and a number of times ) with diagrams and parts list for many different companies. Somehow this one got in with them even though this tired old brain doesn't remember it. SENIOR MOMENT. Sometimes just to much information. I still can't find my copy of it that I had to use to send it to him.      No harm no foul except that diagram on hoseeker with the numbers doesn't match the part or part nos at all. I never took notice to that. Thank goodness for the Gilbert American Flyer HO Index being available and there paperwork matches. Glad this discrepancy was picked up.                                 Jim H         ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2011 10:44 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Message for Jim Heckard about a Gilbert 0-6-0   Hi Jim, Your reply is much appreciated. How strange that your name appeared on HOseeker's diagram without your knowledge. That's a real head scratcher. I will check out the sources your mentioned for diagrams and missing parts. I have since identified more specifically what I need. Chassis spacer p/n P10339, Shouldered screw p/n PA9268 and perhaps a motor p/n X10121. I'm hoping that these three items will get her running again. With regard to the motor, I would be happy with just the worm gear from a bad motor, then I could press it on a can motor which would hopefully quiet the running down a bit. Richard --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> wrote: > > Richard, > > I'll try to help you a little different way. Google The Gilbert American Flyer HO Index When it come up click on the first topic. The Gilbert American Flyer Ho Index and the home page will come up. Go down the left side to Gilbert HO Repair Diagrams at MY Flyer Trains. Org and click on it . Diagrams / parts list will come up. Go to the bottom of page 2 and you will find papers 433-1, 433-2, 433-3 and on page 3 433-4. ( Diagrams, parts list, etc. ) These should allow you to match the diagram with parts numbers. > > As for the paper on hoseeker. First even though my name is on it I don't remember sending it in. It even has Polk Hobby at the bottom of one page. I sent lots of paperwork in to hoseeker but this has me stumped and I can see no way to match numbers with parts on those pages. > > Hope you are able to follow what I just wrote above to get to what you want. If not get back to me at jimheck@... As for parts I'm sorry I have none. I MIGHT be able to put you in touch with a Gilbert / AF collector after your sure what you want and can't get from eBay.. > > Jim H > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Richard > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Friday, February 25, 2011 11:37 AM > Subject: [vintageHO] Message for Jim Heckard about a Gilbert 0-6-0 > > > > Hello Jim, > I'm in the process of trying to restore a Gilbert #433 Pennsy 0-6-0 Loco (HO gauge) and came across the parts info that you supplied to HOSeeker. For some unknown reason the Item numbers on the parts explosion page do not follow correctly on the parts list page, so it makes it difficult to identify missing parts. Is there any chance that you might be able to post a copy of the parts listing that corresponds to the parts explosion diagram? Also I am trying to locate missing parts for this engine so any help locating parts would be awesome. Some of the missing major items are: Front pilot, motor with worm gear and parts to attach rear of main frame to cab (just for starters). Thanks for any assistance you or others can provide. > Richard in Vermont >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16180	From: toytrain13	Date: 2/26/2011
Subject: Richard White's Red Ball car photo album

Hi guys- I've just posted the "Richard's Red Ball Cars" folder in the Photos section. This folder shows the cars I've constructed from kits over the past two years. I have five more Red Ball kits waiting for the paint shop, when warmer weather arrives. I also have a completed Red Ball wrecking crane awaiting "stringing." I once had a dozen kits I'd ordered from Howell Day in the sixties, and never constructed, and later sold. I got back into Red Ball when a friend brought a few kits to a TCA meeting and I bought a few. He had other Red Ball kits at home, and I arranged to buy all of them- about fifty, and I've been building them ever since. Check out the folder! Regards- Richard White

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16181	From: jim heckard	Date: 2/27/2011
Subject: Red Ball cars

HI Richard White,       Just want to write a short comment on the high quality of the Red Ball cars you built. Great job on all.                                                      Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16182	From: Richard	Date: 2/27/2011
Subject: Re: Message for Jim Heckard about a Gilbert 0-6-0

Jim, Thanks for steering me to the Gilbert Index. That is a great site. I am still looking for the parts I need and most likely will try to find a junker. The shoulder screw I may be able to find at a hardware store. The hardest parts to find seem to be the spacer and the motor. I'm sure I will eventually come across what I need. Richard --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> wrote: > > Hi Richard, > > > I hope you were able to find the information that I wrote about. It seems to me you need a lot of parts and it might be better to buy an entirely different item. Till you track down the parts you need the cost of all of them might be more then to get a complete one off Ebay or elsewhere. > > I wrote an email to Larry Stevenson / hoseeker about the paper for the Gilbert 0-6-0 on his site. Larry makes very few mistakes and is very meticulous. He assures me it came with a large pile of paperwork I sent him back in 2008. As I mentioned I did send a lot of paperwork( and a number of times ) with diagrams and parts list for many different companies. Somehow this one got in with them even though this tired old brain doesn't remember it. SENIOR MOMENT. Sometimes just to much information. I still can't find my copy of it that I had to use to send it to him. > > No harm no foul except that diagram on hoseeker with the numbers doesn't match the part or part nos at all. I never took notice to that. Thank goodness for the Gilbert American Flyer HO Index being available and there paperwork matches. Glad this discrepancy was picked up. > > > Jim H > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Richard > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2011 10:44 AM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Message for Jim Heckard about a Gilbert 0-6-0 > > > > Hi Jim, > Your reply is much appreciated. How strange that your name appeared on HOseeker's diagram without your knowledge. That's a real head scratcher. I will check out the sources your mentioned for diagrams and missing parts. > > I have since identified more specifically what I need. Chassis spacer p/n P10339, Shouldered screw p/n PA9268 and perhaps a motor p/n X10121. I'm hoping that these three items will get her running again. With regard to the motor, I would be happy with just the worm gear from a bad motor, then I could press it on a can motor which would hopefully quiet the running down a bit. > Richard > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@> wrote: > > > > Richard, > > > > I'll try to help you a little different way. Google The Gilbert American Flyer HO Index When it come up click on the first topic. The Gilbert American Flyer Ho Index and the home page will come up. Go down the left side to Gilbert HO Repair Diagrams at MY Flyer Trains. Org and click on it . Diagrams / parts list will come up. Go to the bottom of page 2 and you will find papers 433-1, 433-2, 433-3 and on page 3 433-4. ( Diagrams, parts list, etc. ) These should allow you to match the diagram with parts numbers. > > > > As for the paper on hoseeker. First even though my name is on it I don't remember sending it in. It even has Polk Hobby at the bottom of one page. I sent lots of paperwork in to hoseeker but this has me stumped and I can see no way to match numbers with parts on those pages. > > > > Hope you are able to follow what I just wrote above to get to what you want. If not get back to me at jimheck@ As for parts I'm sorry I have none. I MIGHT be able to put you in touch with a Gilbert / AF collector after your sure what you want and can't get from eBay.. > > > > Jim H > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Richard > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Friday, February 25, 2011 11:37 AM > > Subject: [vintageHO] Message for Jim Heckard about a Gilbert 0-6-0 > > > > > > > > Hello Jim, > > I'm in the process of trying to restore a Gilbert #433 Pennsy 0-6-0 Loco (HO gauge) and came across the parts info that you supplied to HOSeeker. For some unknown reason the Item numbers on the parts explosion page do not follow correctly on the parts list page, so it makes it difficult to identify missing parts. Is there any chance that you might be able to post a copy of the parts listing that corresponds to the parts explosion diagram? Also I am trying to locate missing parts for this engine so any help locating parts would be awesome. Some of the missing major items are: Front pilot, motor with worm gear and parts to attach rear of main frame to cab (just for starters). Thanks for any assistance you or others can provide. > > Richard in Vermont > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16183	From: Joe	Date: 2/27/2011
Subject: Re: Has anyone seen the Toonerville listing?

I have the Toonerville Trolley by Kemtron and it is painted exactly the way the one that appeared in the listing was. I also have one that is painted orange with a boxcar brown roof and sides so I assume they were offered both ways or mine was painted by the same guy that painted the one offered in the listing from Europe. I have never tried to run either one and they are actually sitting in a curio cabinet next to the television but the $675.00 price on Ebay may mean that one may be finding a home...really soon. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote: > > I was following the offer from the start. I was certain it was going > to be an interesting result. > > Were the originals offered paint and decorated from Kemtron? > > Best to ya, > Mike Bauers > Milwaukee, Wi > > On Feb 25, 2011, at 6:06 AM, erieberk wrote: > > > It appears that the bidding stopped (at 15:59 PST) about 3 hours > > before the auction was over (at 19:00 PST), so it was not as if it > > were one of those up to the last minute bidding wars, although it > > was heavy. The loser placed his last bid about an hour and 47 > > minutes before the winner placed his last bid. > ................. > > The KL766 Teaspoon of Power was used in both the SC-21 Section Car > > (powered "speeder" car for the three-piece work train, also having > > two 4-wheel flat cars -- one loaded), and the X-17 Powered Box Car > > which could be used to power a short old-time (very early 1800's) > > train having an engine and/or tender too small to install a motor > > in. So, it's quite possible these guys knew a replacement power > > unit truck would not be nearly as hard to come by as this trolley car. > > > > Ray F. W. > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@> > > wrote: > >> > >> At least you can't fault the seller, it IS rare, and he DID open > >> the bidding > >> at 99 cents. ................ >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16184	From: scrimjimmy	Date: 2/27/2011
Subject: 16th ANNUAL MODEL TRAIN SHOW & SWAP MEET CEDARBURG, WI

*****************PRESS RELEASE****************** All Aboard!!! The METRO Model Railroad Club's 16TH Annual Model Railroad show and swap meet will be held on Sunday, March 13th at Circle B Recreation on Highway 60 in Cedarburg, WI. The show will run from 9 a.m. to 4 p.m. All of the common scales of model railroading will be represented. A returning favorite layout this year is the Cream City Traction HO scale layout from Milwaukee, WI. This layout features a city scene of the 50's with various trolleys running down the streets. Among the participants is the WIZ KidZ, who will be bringing Z scale trains. These are models so small that a layout can be built in a cigar box. The Kettle Moraine Ballast Scorchers club of West Bend, WI will bring their popular N scale layout that drew a lot of attention in past years year. It features various scenes of small town America with various eye catching scenes such as a train derailment and interesting industries served by railroads. METRO will be bringing back its own HO layout that has twice been judged best in the nation at the National Train Show. It has many animations and numerous (and humorous) details designed to delight children of all ages. The Lakeshore O-Scale Railroaders will be bringing a Lionel layout to the show and permitting anyone to run the locomotives, including Thomas the Tank Engine, around the tracks. Kids can also fire missiles from train cars, unload barrels and milk cans, and enjoy seeing in small scale some of their favorite movie and TV characters. The Badgerland S Gauger's showing the classic American Flyer scale trains as well as new S-scale trains that are currently available. The West Bend, Jackson and Southern will showing examples of some #1 scale trains, which are large enough to actually ride on. Dave Gehrke will also have an operating G scale train layout on display. In addition, more than 50 tables of dealers and swappers will be on hand to buy, sell and trade model railroad equipment, both new and used. Some notable dealers are Don Manlick of DM Custom Decals who will be selling his GB&W, C&NW and other decals, Cannonball Models of Madison that specializes in N scale, Sandy's Trains, Setco Trains, as well as many other dealers. The many club members and dealers on hand will be able to help modelers young and old with layout design, problem solving, and scenic hints. Attendees can sign up for door prizes which include railroading books and one year subscriptions to Kalmbach Publishing's magazine Model Railroader. This is the 16th consecutive year for the show, which has become the largest in southeast Wisconsin after Milwaukee's Trainfest. This show is held every March. Membership in all of the clubs showing is open; attendees can talk to club members at the show for membership details. METRO can also be found on the web at www.metrorrclub.org. Admission is by a $3 donation for adults; as always, children under 12 are admitted free when accompanied by an adult. Commercial sponsors of this year's show include Ohana Ambulance, Kalmbach Publishing, and Tires Unlimited Automotive Services. Any questions that you might have about the show, please feel free to contact me either by phone or email as listed below. Thank you for your time and any assistance James Bartelt Show Chairman 262-284-5876 jimbartelt@... www.metrorrclub.org

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16185	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 2/27/2011
Subject: Rebuilds

Attachments : HO Akane PRR 4-4-0 2 crop.jpg HO Akane PRR 4-4-0 1 crop.jpg I recently won a couple of items on eBay. I'm being frugal and selective with these and am winning often enough to buy a couple of things every week or so. Recently it was a set of four Varney metal F-3B shells I'm not sure what I will power them with, I'm torn between Athearn or Bachmann F- unit mechs. I think I'll try one of the new Bachmann F-3's and see if the gears look delicate, and look out for some Athearn power as well. I have about four Varney F-3A's, and it's time to see them get off the shelf. Also........ I just won a nice little Akane [1959] 4-4-0 that needs a bit of rework and is still in it's original factory paint. She took a dive, the pilot got mangled and the cylinder tops got separated. First I will try to repair the pilot, if that doesn't work, I'll replace it with a nice brass tube casting or a built-up hardwood slat pilot. It's something I saw in older magazines when I got into the hobby and completely missed seeing one in the flesh, or getting one until now. I'll attach a couple of shots of her. I found a new product at the LHS, It's a sheet of assorted low bubble mirror 'lenses' in a matrix of 5 x 15 of them on the sheet, for................. $1.59 They look like perfect scale headlights. The largest are about 1860's HO headlight size, the smallest are about HO Gyralight size. They are clear round dots with a silver-mirror backing. They are shaped very much like the low-convex surface of a headlight glass. Shimmering Silver Dots #52-20049, from EK Success, Sticko [eksuccess.com/sticko] universal product scan code is 0-15586-87172-2. It's a very new item at Greenfield News and Hobby, train section. For now, I'm keeping them in the package and will get more of them to open.

@@attachment@@

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16186	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/27/2011
Subject: Re: 16th ANNUAL MODEL TRAIN SHOW & SWAP MEET CEDARBURG, WI

First time I've ever been called a "returning favorite" :-) Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "scrimjimmy" <jimbartelt@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2011 8:52 PM Subject: [vintageHO] 16th ANNUAL MODEL TRAIN SHOW & SWAP MEET CEDARBURG, WI > *****************PRESS RELEASE****************** > > All Aboard!!! The METRO Model Railroad Club's 16TH Annual Model Railroad > show and swap meet will be held on Sunday, March 13th at Circle B > Recreation on Highway 60 in Cedarburg, WI. The show will run from 9 a.m. > to 4 p.m. > > All of the common scales of model railroading will be represented. > > A returning favorite layout this year is the Cream City Traction HO scale > layout from Milwaukee, WI. This layout features a city scene of the 50's > with various trolleys running down the streets. Among the participants is > the WIZ KidZ, who will be bringing Z scale trains. These are models so > small that a layout can be built in a cigar box. The Kettle Moraine > Ballast Scorchers club of West Bend, WI will bring their popular N scale > layout that drew a lot of attention in past years year. It features > various scenes of small town America with various eye catching scenes such > as a train derailment and interesting industries served by railroads. > METRO will be bringing back its own HO layout that has twice been judged > best in the nation at the National Train Show. It has many animations and > numerous (and humorous) details designed to delight children of all ages. > The Lakeshore O-Scale Railroaders will be bringing a Lionel layout to the > show and permitting anyone to run the locomotives, including Thomas the > Tank Engine, around the tracks. Kids can also fire missiles from train > cars, unload barrels and milk cans, and enjoy seeing in small scale some > of their favorite movie and TV characters. The Badgerland S Gauger's > showing the classic American Flyer scale trains as well as new S-scale > trains that are currently available. The West Bend, Jackson and Southern > will showing examples of some #1 scale trains, which are large enough to > actually ride on. Dave Gehrke will also have an operating G scale train > layout on display. > > In addition, more than 50 tables of dealers and swappers will be on hand > to buy, sell and trade model railroad equipment, both new and used. Some > notable dealers are Don Manlick of DM Custom Decals who will be selling > his GB&W, C&NW and other decals, Cannonball Models of Madison that > specializes in N scale, Sandy's Trains, Setco Trains, as well as many > other dealers. > > The many club members and dealers on hand will be able to help modelers > young and old with layout design, problem solving, and scenic hints. > Attendees can sign up for door prizes which include railroading books and > one year subscriptions to Kalmbach Publishing's magazine Model Railroader. > > This is the 16th consecutive year for the show, which has become the > largest in southeast Wisconsin after Milwaukee's Trainfest. This show is > held every March. Membership in all of the clubs showing is open; > attendees can talk to club members at the show for membership details. > METRO can also be found on the web at www.metrorrclub.org. > > Admission is by a $3 donation for adults; as always, children under 12 are > admitted free when accompanied by an adult. Commercial sponsors of this > year's show include Ohana Ambulance, Kalmbach Publishing, and Tires > Unlimited Automotive Services. > > Any questions that you might have about the show, please feel free to > contact me either by phone or email as listed below. Thank you for your > time and any assistance > > James Bartelt > Show Chairman > 262-284-5876 > jimbartelt@... > www.metrorrclub.org > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16187	From: James Bartelt	Date: 2/27/2011
Subject: Re: 16th ANNUAL MODEL TRAIN SHOW & SWAP MEET CEDARBURG, WI

Well we did get a lot of favorable comments about your layout. Jim On Sun, Feb 27, 2011 at 9:56 PM, Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote:   First time I've ever been called a "returning favorite" :-) Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "scrimjimmy" <jimbartelt@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2011 8:52 PM Subject: [vintageHO] 16th ANNUAL MODEL TRAIN SHOW & SWAP MEET CEDARBURG, WI > *****************PRESS RELEASE****************** > > All Aboard!!! The METRO Model Railroad Club's 16TH Annual Model Railroad > show and swap meet will be held on Sunday, March 13th at Circle B > Recreation on Highway 60 in Cedarburg, WI. The show will run from 9 a.m. > to 4 p.m. > > All of the common scales of model railroading will be represented. > > A returning favorite layout this year is the Cream City Traction HO scale > layout from Milwaukee, WI. This layout features a city scene of the 50's > with various trolleys running down the streets. Among the participants is > the WIZ KidZ, who will be bringing Z scale trains. These are models so > small that a layout can be built in a cigar box. The Kettle Moraine > Ballast Scorchers club of West Bend, WI will bring their popular N scale > layout that drew a lot of attention in past years year. It features > various scenes of small town America with various eye catching scenes such > as a train derailment and interesting industries served by railroads. > METRO will be bringing back its own HO layout that has twice been judged > best in the nation at the National Train Show. It has many animations and > numerous (and humorous) details designed to delight children of all ages. > The Lakeshore O-Scale Railroaders will be bringing a Lionel layout to the > show and permitting anyone to run the locomotives, including Thomas the > Tank Engine, around the tracks. Kids can also fire missiles from train > cars, unload barrels and milk cans, and enjoy seeing in small scale some > of their favorite movie and TV characters. The Badgerland S Gauger's > showing the classic American Flyer scale trains as well as new S-scale > trains that are currently available. The West Bend, Jackson and Southern > will showing examples of some #1 scale trains, which are large enough to > actually ride on. Dave Gehrke will also have an operating G scale train > layout on display. > > In addition, more than 50 tables of dealers and swappers will be on hand > to buy, sell and trade model railroad equipment, both new and used. Some > notable dealers are Don Manlick of DM Custom Decals who will be selling > his GB&W, C&NW and other decals, Cannonball Models of Madison that > specializes in N scale, Sandy's Trains, Setco Trains, as well as many > other dealers. > > The many club members and dealers on hand will be able to help modelers > young and old with layout design, problem solving, and scenic hints. > Attendees can sign up for door prizes which include railroading books and > one year subscriptions to Kalmbach Publishing's magazine Model Railroader. > > This is the 16th consecutive year for the show, which has become the > largest in southeast Wisconsin after Milwaukee's Trainfest. This show is > held every March. Membership in all of the clubs showing is open; > attendees can talk to club members at the show for membership details. > METRO can also be found on the web at www.metrorrclub.org. > > Admission is by a $3 donation for adults; as always, children under 12 are > admitted free when accompanied by an adult. Commercial sponsors of this > year's show include Ohana Ambulance, Kalmbach Publishing, and Tires > Unlimited Automotive Services. > > Any questions that you might have about the show, please feel free to > contact me either by phone or email as listed below. Thank you for your > time and any assistance > > James Bartelt > Show Chairman > 262-284-5876 > jimbartelt@... > www.metrorrclub.org > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > -- James Bartelt jimbartelt@... METRO RR Club http://www.metrorrclub.org METRO RR CLUB SPRING SHOW 2011 http://members.trainorders.com/scrimjimmy/spring.html

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16188	From: ckinzer@att.net	Date: 2/27/2011
Subject: Re: Rebuilds [2 Attachments]

What is "the LHS"?   Chuck Kinzer   ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike Bauers To: VintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2011 6:53 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Rebuilds [2 Attachments]   I recently won a couple of items on eBay. I'm being frugal and selective with these and am winning often enough to buy a couple of things every week or so. Recently it was a set of four Varney metal F-3B shells I'm not sure what I will power them with, I'm torn between Athearn or Bachmann F- unit mechs. I think I'll try one of the new Bachmann F-3's and see if the gears look delicate, and look out for some Athearn power as well. I have about four Varney F-3A's, and it's time to see them get off the shelf. Also........ I just won a nice little Akane [1959] 4-4-0 that needs a bit of rework and is still in it's original factory paint. She took a dive, the pilot got mangled and the cylinder tops got separated. First I will try to repair the pilot, if that doesn't work, I'll replace it with a nice brass tube casting or a built-up hardwood slat pilot. It's something I saw in older magazines when I got into the hobby and completely missed seeing one in the flesh, or getting one until now. I'll attach a couple of shots of her. I found a new product at the LHS, It's a sheet of assorted low bubble mirror 'lenses' in a matrix of 5 x 15 of them on the sheet, for................. $1.59 They look like perfect scale headlights. The largest are about 1860's HO headlight size, the smallest are about HO Gyralight size. They are clear round dots with a silver-mirror backing. They are shaped very much like the low-convex surface of a headlight glass. Shimmering Silver Dots #52-20049, from EK Success, Sticko [eksuccess.com/sticko] universal product scan code is 0-15586-87172-2. It's a very new item at Greenfield News and Hobby, train section. For now, I'm keeping them in the package and will get more of them to open.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16189	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 2/27/2011
Subject: Re: Rebuilds

----- Original Message ----- From: <ckinzer@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2011 11:36 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Rebuilds What is "the LHS"? Chuck Kinzer "Local Hobby Shop" Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16190	From: Dale Smith	Date: 2/27/2011
Subject: Re: Message for Jim Heckard about a Gilbert 0-6-0

I am glad you found my Gilbert HO Index useful, but I have to give credit where credit is due.  Those repair diagrams are all on Myflyertrains.org site and were donated by Bob Conner, an American Flyer collector, along with a lot of S gauge information.  That site is probably not a place where you would go looking for HO diagrams and that is why I provided the link.  I try not to duplicate what is already on the web, but rather provide links.   For example, if you find a given piece of equipment on the Gilbert HO index, there is usually a link to the various catalogs (on myflyertrains.org) from the different years in which it was illustrated. Also, I am always looking for new details to add to the history of the various Gilbert HO items.  As an example, there was a recent discussion on the Gilbert HO list about Gilbert providing bodies for the 1959 Tyco streamline passenger cars and the information on that issue has now been added to the website.   Please feel free to let me know about any tidbits of information you may have and maybe we can try to preserve the knowledge by adding it to the website. Dale Smith.  On 2/27/2011 8:52 AM, Richard wrote:   Jim, Thanks for steering me to the Gilbert Index. That is a great site. I am still looking for the parts I need and most likely will try to find a junker. The shoulder screw I may be able to find at a hardware store. The hardest parts to find seem to be the spacer and the motor. I'm sure I will eventually come across what I need. Richard

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16191	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 2/28/2011
Subject: Re: Rebuilds

Local Hobby Shop On Mon, Feb 28, 2011 at 1:36 AM, <ckinzer@...> wrote:   What is "the LHS"?   Chuck Kinzer   ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike Bauers To: VintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2011 6:53 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Rebuilds [2 Attachments]   I recently won a couple of items on eBay. I'm being frugal and selective with these and am winning often enough to buy a couple of things every week or so. Recently it was a set of four Varney metal F-3B shells I'm not sure what I will power them with, I'm torn between Athearn or Bachmann F- unit mechs. I think I'll try one of the new Bachmann F-3's and see if the gears look delicate, and look out for some Athearn power as well. I have about four Varney F-3A's, and it's time to see them get off the shelf. Also........ I just won a nice little Akane [1959] 4-4-0 that needs a bit of rework and is still in it's original factory paint. She took a dive, the pilot got mangled and the cylinder tops got separated. First I will try to repair the pilot, if that doesn't work, I'll replace it with a nice brass tube casting or a built-up hardwood slat pilot. It's something I saw in older magazines when I got into the hobby and completely missed seeing one in the flesh, or getting one until now. I'll attach a couple of shots of her. I found a new product at the LHS, It's a sheet of assorted low bubble mirror 'lenses' in a matrix of 5 x 15 of them on the sheet, for................. $1.59 They look like perfect scale headlights. The largest are about 1860's HO headlight size, the smallest are about HO Gyralight size. They are clear round dots with a silver-mirror backing. They are shaped very much like the low-convex surface of a headlight glass. Shimmering Silver Dots #52-20049, from EK Success, Sticko [eksuccess.com/sticko] universal product scan code is 0-15586-87172-2. It's a very new item at Greenfield News and Hobby, train section. For now, I'm keeping them in the package and will get more of them to open. -- Regards, Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16192	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 2/28/2011
Subject: Re: Rebuilds

LHS is Local Hobby Shop. Regards, Vic Bitleris Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: ckinzer@... Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2011 21:36:28 -0800 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Rebuilds   What is "the LHS"?   Chuck Kinzer   ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike Bauers To: VintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2011 6:53 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Rebuilds [2 Attachments]   I recently won a couple of items on eBay. I'm being frugal and selective with these and am winning often enough to buy a couple of things every week or so. Recently it was a set of four Varney metal F-3B shells I'm not sure what I will power them with, I'm torn between Athearn or Bachmann F- unit mechs. I think I'll try one of the new Bachmann F-3's and see if the gears look delicate, and look out for some Athearn power as well. I have about four Varney F-3A's, and it's time to see them get off the shelf. Also........ I just won a nice little Akane [1959] 4-4-0 that needs a bit of rework and is still in it's original factory paint. She took a dive, the pilot got mangled and the cylinder tops got separated. First I will try to repair the pilot, if that doesn't work, I'll replace it with a nice brass tube casting or a built-up hardwood slat pilot. It's something I saw in older magazines when I got into the hobby and completely missed seeing one in the flesh, or getting one until now. I'll attach a couple of shots of her. I found a new product at the LHS, It's a sheet of assorted low bubble mirror 'lenses' in a matrix of 5 x 15 of them on the sheet, for................. $1.59 They look like perfect scale headlights. The largest are about 1860's HO headlight size, the smallest are about HO Gyralight size. They are clear round dots with a silver-mirror backing. They are shaped very much like the low-convex surface of a headlight glass. Shimmering Silver Dots #52-20049, from EK Success, Sticko [eksuccess.com/sticko] universal product scan code is 0-15586-87172-2. It's a very new item at Greenfield News and Hobby, train section. For now, I'm keeping them in the package and will get more of them to open.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16193	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 2/28/2011
Subject: Re: Rebuilds

What is "NIB"? On Mon, Feb 28, 2011 at 9:53 AM, Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> wrote:   LHS is Local Hobby Shop. Regards, Vic Bitleris Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: ckinzer@... Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2011 21:36:28 -0800 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Rebuilds   What is "the LHS"?   Chuck Kinzer   ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike Bauers To: VintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2011 6:53 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Rebuilds [2 Attachments]   I recently won a couple of items on eBay. I'm being frugal and selective with these and am winning often enough to buy a couple of things every week or so. Recently it was a set of four Varney metal F-3B shells I'm not sure what I will power them with, I'm torn between Athearn or Bachmann F- unit mechs. I think I'll try one of the new Bachmann F-3's and see if the gears look delicate, and look out for some Athearn power as well. I have about four Varney F-3A's, and it's time to see them get off the shelf. Also........ I just won a nice little Akane [1959] 4-4-0 that needs a bit of rework and is still in it's original factory paint. She took a dive, the pilot got mangled and the cylinder tops got separated. First I will try to repair the pilot, if that doesn't work, I'll replace it with a nice brass tube casting or a built-up hardwood slat pilot. It's something I saw in older magazines when I got into the hobby and completely missed seeing one in the flesh, or getting one until now. I'll attach a couple of shots of her. I found a new product at the LHS, It's a sheet of assorted low bubble mirror 'lenses' in a matrix of 5 x 15 of them on the sheet, for................. $1.59 They look like perfect scale headlights. The largest are about 1860's HO headlight size, the smallest are about HO Gyralight size. They are clear round dots with a silver-mirror backing. They are shaped very much like the low-convex surface of a headlight glass. Shimmering Silver Dots #52-20049, from EK Success, Sticko [eksuccess.com/sticko] universal product scan code is 0-15586-87172-2. It's a very new item at Greenfield News and Hobby, train section. For now, I'm keeping them in the package and will get more of them to open. -- Regards, Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16194	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 2/28/2011
Subject: Re: Rebuilds

NIB is New In Box (but, I wouldn't always believe it when you read this on eBay). Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: bayerw2@... Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2011 10:07:26 -0400 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Rebuilds   What is "NIB"? On Mon, Feb 28, 2011 at 9:53 AM, Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> wrote:   LHS is Local Hobby Shop. Regards, Vic Bitleris Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: ckinzer@... Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2011 21:36:28 -0800 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Rebuilds   What is "the LHS"?   Chuck Kinzer   ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike Bauers To: VintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2011 6:53 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Rebuilds [2 Attachments]   I recently won a couple of items on eBay. I'm being frugal and selective with these and am winning often enough to buy a couple of things every week or so. Recently it was a set of four Varney metal F-3B shells I'm not sure what I will power them with, I'm torn between Athearn or Bachmann F- unit mechs. I think I'll try one of the new Bachmann F-3's and see if the gears look delicate, and look out for some Athearn power as well. I have about four Varney F-3A's, and it's time to see them get off the shelf. Also........ I just won a nice little Akane [1959] 4-4-0 that needs a bit of rework and is still in it's original factory paint. She took a dive, the pilot got mangled and the cylinder tops got separated. First I will try to repair the pilot, if that doesn't work, I'll replace it with a nice brass tube casting or a built-up hardwood slat pilot. It's something I saw in older magazines when I got into the hobby and completely missed seeing one in the flesh, or getting one until now. I'll attach a couple of shots of her. I found a new product at the LHS, It's a sheet of assorted low bubble mirror 'lenses' in a matrix of 5 x 15 of them on the sheet, for................. $1.59 They look like perfect scale headlights. The largest are about 1860's HO headlight size, the smallest are about HO Gyralight size. They are clear round dots with a silver-mirror backing. They are shaped very much like the low-convex surface of a headlight glass. Shimmering Silver Dots #52-20049, from EK Success, Sticko [eksuccess.com/sticko] universal product scan code is 0-15586-87172-2. It's a very new item at Greenfield News and Hobby, train section. For now, I'm keeping them in the package and will get more of them to open. -- Regards, Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16195	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 2/28/2011
Subject: Re: Rebuilds

Thanks, and yes, I agree! Some claims seem puffed up, to say it in a more generous way. On Mon, Feb 28, 2011 at 10:08 AM, Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> wrote:   NIB is New In Box (but, I wouldn't always believe it when you read this on eBay). Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: bayerw2@... Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2011 10:07:26 -0400 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Rebuilds   What is "NIB"? On Mon, Feb 28, 2011 at 9:53 AM, Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> wrote:   LHS is Local Hobby Shop. Regards, Vic Bitleris Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: ckinzer@... Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2011 21:36:28 -0800 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Rebuilds   What is "the LHS"?   Chuck Kinzer   ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike Bauers To: VintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2011 6:53 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Rebuilds [2 Attachments]   I recently won a couple of items on eBay. I'm being frugal and selective with these and am winning often enough to buy a couple of things every week or so. Recently it was a set of four Varney metal F-3B shells I'm not sure what I will power them with, I'm torn between Athearn or Bachmann F- unit mechs. I think I'll try one of the new Bachmann F-3's and see if the gears look delicate, and look out for some Athearn power as well. I have about four Varney F-3A's, and it's time to see them get off the shelf. Also........ I just won a nice little Akane [1959] 4-4-0 that needs a bit of rework and is still in it's original factory paint. She took a dive, the pilot got mangled and the cylinder tops got separated. First I will try to repair the pilot, if that doesn't work, I'll replace it with a nice brass tube casting or a built-up hardwood slat pilot. It's something I saw in older magazines when I got into the hobby and completely missed seeing one in the flesh, or getting one until now. I'll attach a couple of shots of her. I found a new product at the LHS, It's a sheet of assorted low bubble mirror 'lenses' in a matrix of 5 x 15 of them on the sheet, for................. $1.59 They look like perfect scale headlights. The largest are about 1860's HO headlight size, the smallest are about HO Gyralight size. They are clear round dots with a silver-mirror backing. They are shaped very much like the low-convex surface of a headlight glass. Shimmering Silver Dots #52-20049, from EK Success, Sticko [eksuccess.com/sticko] universal product scan code is 0-15586-87172-2. It's a very new item at Greenfield News and Hobby, train section. For now, I'm keeping them in the package and will get more of them to open. -- Regards, Walter -- Regards, Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16196	From: Gary Woodard	Date: 2/28/2011
Subject: Re: Rebuilds

Hi Vic,   It means "New In Box", I would be skeptical on ebay, as I'll betcha ten to one odds that they've had it out of the box, I don't even buy that line at train sales, as far as I'm concerned, once it leaves the retailer, its used merchandise!   Gary W     Click HERE http://www.eeinternational.org/pages/page.asp?page_id=31469 to answer life's two most important questions! From: Walter Bayer II <bayerw2@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, February 28, 2011 9:07:26 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Rebuilds   What is "NIB"? On Mon, Feb 28, 2011 at 9:53 AM, Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> wrote:   LHS is Local Hobby Shop. Regards, Vic Bitleris Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: ckinzer@... Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2011 21:36:28 -0800 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Rebuilds   What is "the LHS"?   Chuck Kinzer   ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike Bauers To: VintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2011 6:53 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Rebuilds [2 Attachments]   I recently won a couple of items on eBay. I'm being frugal and selective with these and am winning often enough to buy a couple of things every week or so. Recently it was a set of four Varney metal F-3B shells I'm not sure what I will power them with, I'm torn between Athearn or Bachmann F- unit mechs. I think I'll try one of the new Bachmann F-3's and see if the gears look delicate, and look out for some Athearn power as well. I have about four Varney F-3A's, and it's time to see them get off the shelf. Also........ I just won a nice little Akane [1959] 4-4-0 that needs a bit of rework and is still in it's original factory paint. She took a dive, the pilot got mangled and the cylinder tops got separated. First I will try to repair the pilot, if that doesn't work, I'll replace it with a nice brass tube casting or a built-up hardwood slat pilot. It's something I saw in older magazines when I got into the hobby and completely missed seeing one in the flesh, or getting one until now. I'll attach a couple of shots of her. I found a new product at the LHS, It's a sheet of assorted low bubble mirror 'lenses' in a matrix of 5 x 15 of them on the sheet, for................. $1.59 They look like perfect scale headlights. The largest are about 1860's HO headlight size, the smallest are about HO Gyralight size. They are clear round dots with a silver-mirror backing. They are shaped very much like the low-convex surface of a headlight glass. Shimmering Silver Dots #52-20049, from EK Success, Sticko [eksuccess.com/sticko] universal product scan code is 0-15586-87172-2. It's a very new item at Greenfield News and Hobby, train section. For now, I'm keeping them in the package and will get more of them to open. -- Regards, Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16197	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 2/28/2011
Subject: Re: OSTUCO Decals in the mail

Hi John, I just received mine today, they are GORGEOUS!  Do you make other decals too?  VBG.   Is there any special method to using these?  Do I need to coat them, or just treat them like Microscale or something like that? By the way, it seems the Walthers car comes with genuine Kadee couplers or if not, exact copy knockoffs.  I am fairly impressed with this car.  I already removed the end and will be adding the structure in the coming weekend, then comes paint and decals.  WooHoo! Thanks very much and regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: sprinthag@... Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2011 21:08:52 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] OSTUCO Decals in the mail   It is amazing how much of a project simple things can be when one has their movements restricted! The most basic things end up being a real pain, especially when one is not the most organized person. Anyway they are in the mail today. Watch for a large manila envelope (out of 9.5 X 6.5's --- naturally). BTW, you Walthers gon guys will note a smaller set of reporting marks and car number over towards the right end of the set. These are for the one end of the car. I did not include any in with the Varney set as the Varney's did not have end data on them, although you could use the ones from the Walthers area. If any one has any problems applying the decals and need some replacement pieces, let me know and I will replace them for the cost of postage. Thank you all for hanging with me on what started out to be a "quickie" project. John Hagen

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16198	From: John H	Date: 2/28/2011
Subject: Re: OSTUCO Decals in the mail

Thank you Vic. These decals can be treated like any other. Some like to lay on overcoat first. I recommend Microscale Liquid decal Film thinned 15% with alcohol. It may be airbrushed but if I do it I use a flat, one inch artist brush. Just lay it on without a lot of brushing or "scrubbing" and it'll lay out flat as can be. Yes I do other decals but most of it is very limited run stuff such as the Ostuco set or is in other scales, especially O scale where the big companies do not tread. Some of the O scale stuff is already done in HO or N. I just finished a Pennsylvania set for O scale version of the same car as the Walthers gon. They are available in HO from Microscale but not O. One of the more interesting HO sets I am doing is for the Soo Line W2 crane in two lettering schemes, the early style with the large, circular "Safety First" logo and the simplified scheme applied sometime during 1968. The Tichy (I think they are the current producers of this kit) Industrial Brownhoist crane. With a little added styrene car siding and some detailing a very creditable model can be built. John Hagen --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> wrote: > > > Hi John, > > I just received mine today, they are GORGEOUS! Do you make other decals too? VBG. Is there any special method to using these? Do I need to coat them, or just treat them like Microscale or something like that? > > By the way, it seems the Walthers car comes with genuine Kadee couplers or if not, exact copy knockoffs. I am fairly impressed with this car. I already removed the end and will be adding the structure in the coming weekend, then comes paint and decals. WooHoo! > > Thanks very much and regards, > Vic Bitleris > Raleigh, NC > > > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > From: sprinthag@... > Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2011 21:08:52 +0000 > Subject: [vintageHO] OSTUCO Decals in the mail > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is amazing how much of a project simple things can be when one has their movements restricted! The most basic things end up being a real pain, especially when one is not the most organized person. > > > > Anyway they are in the mail today. Watch for a large manila envelope (out of 9.5 X 6.5's --- naturally). > > > > BTW, you Walthers gon guys will note a smaller set of reporting marks and car number over towards the right end of the set. These are for the one end of the car. I did not include any in with the Varney set as the Varney's did not have end data on them, although you could use the ones from the Walthers area. > > > > If any one has any problems applying the decals and need some replacement pieces, let me know and I will replace them for the cost of postage. > > > > Thank you all for hanging with me on what started out to be a "quickie" project. > > > > John Hagen >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16199	From: jim heckard	Date: 3/1/2011
Subject: Item won on eBay

If you go to item # 370486926913    Ho Vintage Die Cast PB Dummy unit , unpainted    you will see the latest engine I won for my vintage collection.       I bid on it not being a 100% sure what it is. From everything I can tell by little cast in body details it sure looks to me to be a Hobbies, Inc. PB dummy unit from 1950. It even looks like the dummy trucks are the right ones which will be an added plus. The only thing that doesn't match is seller says die cast and it should be cast Aluminum ( his judgment call ?) but that difference is minor till I get the piece in my possession to tell. Then I can be totally sure.     If it is what I think it will match the Hobbies, Inc. PA body I just won on eBay about a month ago. While a lot of people use words a little to freely I believe these could be called rare and scarce. Only made one year and not in large numbers. Most companies making cast metal PA's didn't make the PB units.    If I'm guessing wrong what it is it still will be an unknown piece. Just the kind of researching I like.                                              Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16200	From: mrncartoon	Date: 3/2/2011
Subject: Great Website on Vintage Model Magazines

I found a great site which has scans of old railroad and model railroad magazines that are no longer arround;  http://www.trainlife.com/ There is also a link to albums of photos sent in by others of their model trains. One that cought my eye was titled "Cars built from old kits (Ambroid, Sliver Streak, Etc.)" by Bob Hollowell and it has photos of models from some of the old (50's & 60's) kits, in various stages of "build". http://www.trainlife.com/albums/photo/view/album_id/2214/photo_id/253490  Worth a look see. Larry Miller III

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16201	From: pfpackman	Date: 3/2/2011
Subject: Solvents for Testors Floquil

Since I got back into scratch building I have been trying to find a recipe for a solvent for Testors Floquil. This is not for the water soluble stuff, but the newer better paint that resembles the "much" older DiSol solvent paints. I read in a blog that the older DiSol solvents should NOT be used with the newer Testor paints or you get a blobby mess. I'd like to thin the new Floquil down so I can spray it and to clean the air brush, brushes and other stuff. To do this I need much more than the 1 oz bottles of the thinner. The label says the thinner/cleaner contains petroleum distillates, but no one seems to have a recipe for the Testors thinner and cleaner. Several blogs say that it is OK to use lacquer thinner or mineral spirits or a 50/50 mixture of xylene/toluene or recommend any enamel thinners. I'd like to hear from the collective wisdom of this group. Since tis is a vintage railroading model group, many of you probably have had experiences with the newer Floquil paints that I'd like to tap into. This 70+ year old scratch builder is too much of a tight wad to enjoy spending $5.00 on a one fluid ounce bottle of thinner. I know that lacquer thinner, mineral spirits, toluene and xylene cost about $6.00 each for a quart at a paint store. That is 32 fluid ounces; so there is a 27 times markup on a one ounce bottle of commercial thinner. I'm all for letting the manufacturer make a profit, but this is silly. Anyone know of a good recipe for the thinner/solvent that they recommend, or can point me in the right right direction I'd be greatly appreciative. P.F. Packman

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16202	From: Richard White	Date: 3/2/2011
Subject: Re: Solvents for Testors Floquil

Laquer thinner didn't work out too well for me!  -Richard White   To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: pfpackman@... Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 20:14:06 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Solvents for Testors Floquil   Since I got back into scratch building I have been trying to find a recipe for a solvent for Testors Floquil. This is not for the water soluble stuff, but the newer better paint that resembles the "much" older DiSol solvent paints. I read in a blog that the older DiSol solvents should NOT be used with the newer Testor paints or you get a blobby mess. I'd like to thin the new Floquil down so I can spray it and to clean the air brush, brushes and other stuff. To do this I need much more than the 1 oz bottles of the thinner. The label says the thinner/cleaner contains petroleum distillates, but no one seems to have a recipe for the Testors thinner and cleaner. Several blogs say that it is OK to use lacquer thinner or mineral spirits or a 50/50 mixture of xylene/toluene or recommend any enamel thinners. I'd like to hear from the collective wisdom of this group. Since tis is a vintage railroading model group, many of you probably have had experiences with the newer Floquil paints that I'd like to tap into. This 70+ year old scratch builder is too much of a tight wad to enjoy spending $5.00 on a one fluid ounce bottle of thinner. I know that lacquer thinner, mineral spirits, toluene and xylene cost about $6.00 each for a quart at a paint store. That is 32 fluid ounces; so there is a 27 times markup on a one ounce bottle of commercial thinner. I'm all for letting the manufacturer make a profit, but this is silly. Anyone know of a good recipe for the thinner/solvent that they recommend, or can point me in the right right direction I'd be greatly appreciative. P.F. Packman

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16203	From: Glenn	Date: 3/2/2011
Subject: Re: Solvents for Testors Floquil

I recall old Dio Sol being toluene/Xylene—I  used it to thin the Floquil paintrs, but the cheapest lacquer thinner from the hardware store I could find for clean-up. gj   From: Richard White Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 2:54 PM To: Jim Heckard Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Solvents for Testors Floquil   Laquer thinner didn't work out too well for me!  -Richard White   To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: pfpackman@... Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 20:14:06 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Solvents for Testors Floquil   Since I got back into scratch building I have been trying to find a recipe for a solvent for Testors Floquil. This is not for the water soluble stuff, but the newer better paint that resembles the "much" older DiSol solvent paints. I read in a blog that the older DiSol solvents should NOT be used with the newer Testor paints or you get a blobby mess. I'd like to thin the new Floquil down so I can spray it and to clean the air brush, brushes and other stuff. To do this I need much more than the 1 oz bottles of the thinner. The label says the thinner/cleaner contains petroleum distillates, but no one seems to have a recipe for the Testors thinner and cleaner. Several blogs say that it is OK to use lacquer thinner or mineral spirits or a 50/50 mixture of xylene/toluene or recommend any enamel thinners. I'd like to hear from the collective wisdom of this group. Since tis is a vintage railroading model group, many of you probably have had experiences with the newer Floquil paints that I'd like to tap into. This 70+ year old scratch builder is too much of a tight wad to enjoy spending $5.00 on a one fluid ounce bottle of thinner. I know that lacquer thinner, mineral spirits, toluene and xylene cost about $6.00 each for a quart at a paint store. That is 32 fluid ounces; so there is a 27 times markup on a one ounce bottle of commercial thinner. I'm all for letting the manufacturer make a profit, but this is silly. Anyone know of a good recipe for the thinner/solvent that they recommend, or can point me in the right right direction I'd be greatly appreciative. P.F. Packman

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16204	From: Donald R. Staton	Date: 3/2/2011
Subject: Re: Solvents for Testors Floquil

Lacquer thinner is always a good brush cleaner and spray gun cleaner.  It works better than anything else I ever used.  I have not had to use any of the new paint but I would try lacquer thinner as a solvent and thinner before I tried anything else.  Lacquer sprays make a better finish but you must be very careful with plastics.  With plastics it is best to use a primer first.  If you use lacquer based primer, be careful not to wet the plastic but spray it in a manner to have it dry as soon as it hits the surface and use several thin coats.  If the initial coat wets the plastics and it is lacquer sensitive it will craze like eggshell and you will ruin the surface.  Experiment with some scrap items before working with your model you are painting.  Get the feel of it before doing finish work. Be sure all surfaces to be painted are clean and free of dust, grease, oil and fingerprints. Happy Railroading...  Don Staton in Va. Beach ============================================================================= On 3/2/2011 3:14 PM, pfpackman wrote:   Since I got back into scratch building I have been trying to find a recipe for a solvent for Testors Floquil. This is not for the water soluble stuff, but the newer better paint that resembles the "much" older DiSol solvent paints. I read in a blog that the older DiSol solvents should NOT be used with the newer Testor paints or you get a blobby mess. I'd like to thin the new Floquil down so I can spray it and to clean the air brush, brushes and other stuff. To do this I need much more than the 1 oz bottles of the thinner. The label says the thinner/cleaner contains petroleum distillates, but no one seems to have a recipe for the Testors thinner and cleaner. Several blogs say that it is OK to use lacquer thinner or mineral spirits or a 50/50 mixture of xylene/toluene or recommend any enamel thinners. I'd like to hear from the collective wisdom of this group. Since tis is a vintage railroading model group, many of you probably have had experiences with the newer Floquil paints that I'd like to tap into. This 70+ year old scratch builder is too much of a tight wad to enjoy spending $5.00 on a one fluid ounce bottle of thinner. I know that lacquer thinner, mineral spirits, toluene and xylene cost about $6.00 each for a quart at a paint store. That is 32 fluid ounces; so there is a 27 times markup on a one ounce bottle of commercial thinner. I'm all for letting the manufacturer make a profit, but this is silly. Anyone know of a good recipe for the thinner/solvent that they recommend, or can point me in the right right direction I'd be greatly appreciative. P.F. Packman

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16205	From: Glenn	Date: 3/2/2011
Subject: Re: Solvents for Testors Floquil

:I used to hang ouit with a –n aircraft/armor modeling group—some of them found a trick withy  Floquil and styrene—they would spray Floquil directly on styrene, adjusting the spray so that the paint hit the surface wet enough to provide a smooth coat, but with a high enough pressure that dried before it could etch the surface.  And since Floquil at least used to be insoluble in its own solvent once it was dry, the method gave good results.  But always test first.  I painted some old fifties Lionel F3’s for a friend—and I’d swear that those Lionel shells wrinkled if you set a sealed bottle of Floquil on the same bench.    gj   From: Donald R. Staton Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 5:17 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Solvents for Testors Floquil   Lacquer thinner is always a good brush cleaner and spray gun cleaner.  It works better than anything else I ever used.  I have not had to use any of the new paint but I would try lacquer thinner as a solvent and thinner before I tried anything else.  Lacquer sprays make a better finish but you must be very careful with plastics.  With plastics it is best to use a primer first.  If you use lacquer based primer, be careful not to wet the plastic but spray it in a manner to have it dry as soon as it hits the surface and use several thin coats.  If the initial coat wets the plastics and it is lacquer sensitive it will craze like eggshell and you will ruin the surface.  Experiment with some scrap items before working with your model you are painting.  Get the feel of it before doing finish work. Be sure all surfaces to be painted are clean and free of dust, grease, oil and fingerprints. Happy Railroading...  Don Staton in Va. Beach ============================================================================= On 3/2/2011 3:14 PM, pfpackman wrote:   Since I got back into scratch building I have been trying to find a recipe for a solvent for Testors Floquil. This is not for the water soluble stuff, but the newer better paint that resembles the "much" older DiSol solvent paints. I read in a blog that the older DiSol solvents should NOT be used with the newer Testor paints or you get a blobby mess. I'd like to thin the new Floquil down so I can spray it and to clean the air brush, brushes and other stuff. To do this I need much more than the 1 oz bottles of the thinner. The label says the thinner/cleaner contains petroleum distillates, but no one seems to have a recipe for the Testors thinner and cleaner. Several blogs say that it is OK to use lacquer thinner or mineral spirits or a 50/50 mixture of xylene/toluene or recommend any enamel thinners. I'd like to hear from the collective wisdom of this group. Since tis is a vintage railroading model group, many of you probably have had experiences with the newer Floquil paints that I'd like to tap into. This 70+ year old scratch builder is too much of a tight wad to enjoy spending $5.00 on a one fluid ounce bottle of thinner. I know that lacquer thinner, mineral spirits, toluene and xylene cost about $6.00 each for a quart at a paint store. That is 32 fluid ounces; so there is a 27 times markup on a one ounce bottle of commercial thinner. I'm all for letting the manufacturer make a profit, but this is silly. Anyone know of a good recipe for the thinner/solvent that they recommend, or can point me in the right right direction I'd be greatly appreciative. P.F. Packman

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16206	From: estabrook@aol.com	Date: 3/2/2011
Subject: Re: Solvents for Testors Floquil

I used to work with a bunch of chemists and we used to use a laboratory solvent sold as "Mixed Xylenes", which seemed exactly like the old DioSol. This source has long since dried up, but a year or two ago, I picked up a gallon can of Xylene from a Tru-Value hardware store for $10 or $15 and it works fine, although it has a strong odor.  It's especially good for cleaning the spray guns after using Floquil paints.  For thinning, I mostly use some of the little DioSol I have left. Reed ---- Original Message ---- From: pfpackman <pfpackman@...> To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wed, Mar 2, 2011 5:19 pm Subject: [vintageHO] Solvents for Testors Floquil   Since I got back into scratch building I have been trying to find a recipe for a solvent for Testors Floquil. This is not for the water soluble stuff, but the newer better paint that resembles the "much" older DiSol solvent paints. I read in a blog that the older DiSol solvents should NOT be used with the newer Testor paints or you get a blobby mess. I'd like to thin the new Floquil down so I can spray it and to clean the air brush, brushes and other stuff. To do this I need much more than the 1 oz bottles of the thinner. The label says the thinner/cleaner contains petroleum distillates, but no one seems to have a recipe for the Testors thinner and cleaner. Several blogs say that it is OK to use lacquer thinner or mineral spirits or a 50/50 mixture of xylene/toluene or recommend any enamel thinners. I'd like to hear from the collective wisdom of this group. Since tis is a vintage railroading model group, many of you probably have had experiences with the newer Floquil paints that I'd like to tap into. This 70+ year old scratch builder is too much of a tight wad to enjoy spending $5.00 on a one fluid ounce bottle of thinner. I know that lacquer thinner, mineral spirits, toluene and xylene cost about $6.00 each for a quart at a paint store. That is 32 fluid ounces; so there is a 27 times markup on a one ounce bottle of commercial thinner. I'm all for letting the manufacturer make a profit, but this is silly. Anyone know of a good recipe for the thinner/solvent that they recommend, or can point me in the right right direction I'd be greatly appreciative. P.F. Packman

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16207	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 3/2/2011
Subject: Re: Solvents for Testors Floquil

For the NEW Floquil, I have been successful by thinning it with plain old Paint Thinner from Home Depot. It is an enamel based paint rather than a lacquer based paint.  For clean up, I use pain thinner, but  I followup with a  Lacquer thinner for a final bath in the airbrush.  I find the NEW Floquil a bit shiny compared to the OLD Floquil.  This is not bad if you want to put decals on, because you do not need to spray with a gloss coat. Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: pfpackman@... Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 20:14:06 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Solvents for Testors Floquil   Since I got back into scratch building I have been trying to find a recipe for a solvent for Testors Floquil. This is not for the water soluble stuff, but the newer better paint that resembles the "much" older DiSol solvent paints. I read in a blog that the older DiSol solvents should NOT be used with the newer Testor paints or you get a blobby mess. I'd like to thin the new Floquil down so I can spray it and to clean the air brush, brushes and other stuff. To do this I need much more than the 1 oz bottles of the thinner. The label says the thinner/cleaner contains petroleum distillates, but no one seems to have a recipe for the Testors thinner and cleaner. Several blogs say that it is OK to use lacquer thinner or mineral spirits or a 50/50 mixture of xylene/toluene or recommend any enamel thinners. I'd like to hear from the collective wisdom of this group. Since tis is a vintage railroading model group, many of you probably have had experiences with the newer Floquil paints that I'd like to tap into. This 70+ year old scratch builder is too much of a tight wad to enjoy spending $5.00 on a one fluid ounce bottle of thinner. I know that lacquer thinner, mineral spirits, toluene and xylene cost about $6.00 each for a quart at a paint store. That is 32 fluid ounces; so there is a 27 times markup on a one ounce bottle of commercial thinner. I'm all for letting the manufacturer make a profit, but this is silly. Anyone know of a good recipe for the thinner/solvent that they recommend, or can point me in the right right direction I'd be greatly appreciative. P.F. Packman

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16208	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 3/2/2011
Subject: Re: Solvents for Testors Floquil

Is that Aspirin or Tylenol? For clean up, I use pain thinner, but I followup with a Lacquer thinner for a final bath > Vic Bitleris > Raleigh, NC

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16209	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 3/2/2011
Subject: Re: Solvents for Testors Floquil

I just KANT TIPE... I meant PAINT THINNER. Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: idioticyahoo@... Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2011 03:24:15 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Solvents for Testors Floquil   Is that Aspirin or Tylenol? For clean up, I use pain thinner, but I followup with a Lacquer thinner for a final bath > Vic Bitleris > Raleigh, NC

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16210	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 3/2/2011
Subject: Re: Solvents for Testors Floquil

Whew. Good, 'cause my next question concerned that lacquer bath..... > > I just KANT TIPE... > > I meant PAINT THINNER. > Regards, > Vic Bitleris > Raleigh, NC > > > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > From: idioticyahoo@... > Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2011 03:24:15 +0000 > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Solvents for Testors Floquil > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Is that Aspirin or Tylenol? > > > > For clean up, I use pain thinner, but I followup with a Lacquer thinner for a final bath > > > Vic Bitleris > > > Raleigh, NC >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16211	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/2/2011
Subject: Re: Solvents for Testors Floquil

I just laid a bunch of floquil down on some Blue Line cars, you guys are scaring me <G>. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "trainsnwrcs" <idioticyahoo@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 10:01 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Solvents for Testors Floquil > Whew. Good, 'cause my next question concerned that lacquer bath..... >> >> I just KANT TIPE... >> >> I meant PAINT THINNER. >> Regards, >> Vic Bitleris >> Raleigh, NC >> >> >> >> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com >> From: idioticyahoo@... >> Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2011 03:24:15 +0000 >> Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Solvents for Testors Floquil >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Is that Aspirin or Tylenol? >> >> >> >> For clean up, I use pain thinner, but I followup with a Lacquer thinner >> for a final bath >> >> > Vic Bitleris >> >> > Raleigh, NC >> > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16212	From: Gary Woodard	Date: 3/3/2011
Subject: Re: Solvents for Testors Floquil

Hi P.F., I simply use laquer thinner I picked up at Wal-Mart, you can get it at any Home Depot or Lowes as well, I use it to thin both laquers and enamels, works quite well...:o)   Gary W     Click HERE http://www.eeinternational.org/pages/page.asp?page_id=31469 to answer life's two most important questions! From: pfpackman <pfpackman@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, March 2, 2011 3:14:06 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Solvents for Testors Floquil   Since I got back into scratch building I have been trying to find a recipe for a solvent for Testors Floquil. This is not for the water soluble stuff, but the newer better paint that resembles the "much" older DiSol solvent paints. I read in a blog that the older DiSol solvents should NOT be used with the newer Testor paints or you get a blobby mess. I'd like to thin the new Floquil down so I can spray it and to clean the air brush, brushes and other stuff. To do this I need much more than the 1 oz bottles of the thinner. The label says the thinner/cleaner contains petroleum distillates, but no one seems to have a recipe for the Testors thinner and cleaner. Several blogs say that it is OK to use lacquer thinner or mineral spirits or a 50/50 mixture of xylene/toluene or recommend any enamel thinners. I'd like to hear from the collective wisdom of this group. Since tis is a vintage railroading model group, many of you probably have had experiences with the newer Floquil paints that I'd like to tap into. This 70+ year old scratch builder is too much of a tight wad to enjoy spending $5.00 on a one fluid ounce bottle of thinner. I know that lacquer thinner, mineral spirits, toluene and xylene cost about $6.00 each for a quart at a paint store. That is 32 fluid ounces; so there is a 27 times markup on a one ounce bottle of commercial thinner. I'm all for letting the manufacturer make a profit, but this is silly. Anyone know of a good recipe for the thinner/solvent that they recommend, or can point me in the right right direction I'd be greatly appreciative. P.F. Packman

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16213	From: Matthew	Date: 3/3/2011
Subject: Re: Solvents for Testors Floquil

My experience has been the same as Vic's -- the newest Floquil paints seem to work well with paint thinner. Paint thinner doesn't have any xylene in it and that seems to be the trick. My problem is that I have a mix of old and new Floquil and keeping them apart has been a problem. I have ruined two new bottles by putting Diosol in them. Matt --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> wrote: > > > For the NEW Floquil, I have been successful by thinning it with plain old Paint Thinner from Home Depot. It is an enamel based paint rather than a lacquer based paint. For clean up, I use pain thinner, but I followup with a Lacquer thinner for a final bath in the airbrush. I find the NEW Floquil a bit shiny compared to the OLD Floquil. This is not bad if you want to put decals on, because you do not need to spray with a gloss coat. > > Vic Bitleris > Raleigh, NC >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16214	From: corlissbs@aol.com	Date: 3/3/2011
Subject: Re: Solvents for Testors Floquil

I still have a partial can of Dio-Sol and I use it to thin all my Testers Floquil with no problems.  I do also have new, unopened bottles of the old Floquil.  Unless Testers has changed the formula of Floquil in the last year, I see no problem using Dio-Sol.  I have also used Airbrush Thinner from Floquil, but that is the old Floquil and came in a Dio-Sol size can.   I would try to use Enamel Reducer (Xylol) that can be bought in a large can, at the hardware store if you are that cheap.  It should work.   I always use lacquer thinner to clean my air brush.  It is cheap and cleans very well.  You can do this and just use the Testers thinner to thin the paint.  That would save you money.   Brad Smith Franklin, WI

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16215	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 3/3/2011
Subject: Re: Solvents for Testors Floquil

It is truly amazing how long the OLD Floquil keeps.  I have some bottles that are about 25 years old or older and are still good.  But, it is very easy to tell the difference if you have any sense of smell at all.  The OLD Floquil has a definite lacquer smell to it.  The new stuff, pretty much smells like the familiar Testors Enamels.  The labels are also a bit different.  I still have about a half a can of the OLD Dio Sol, yep, that's right, there is an OLD version (REAL Dio Sol) and a NEW version which is no longer made.  Actually, neither are made any longer.  The NEW version can had the label on it that said Dio Sol, but was really some formulation of paint thinner for enamel paints.  That made things very confusing until Testors discontinued it.  Hence there is a LOT of confusion on what to use to thin the NEW Floquil.  I personally had problems when thinning the NEW Floquil with the OLD Dio Sol. Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: mattjcoleman@... Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2011 14:21:11 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Solvents for Testors Floquil   My experience has been the same as Vic's -- the newest Floquil paints seem to work well with paint thinner. Paint thinner doesn't have any xylene in it and that seems to be the trick. My problem is that I have a mix of old and new Floquil and keeping them apart has been a problem. I have ruined two new bottles by putting Diosol in them. Matt --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> wrote: > > > For the NEW Floquil, I have been successful by thinning it with plain old Paint Thinner from Home Depot. It is an enamel based paint rather than a lacquer based paint. For clean up, I use pain thinner, but I followup with a Lacquer thinner for a final bath in the airbrush. I find the NEW Floquil a bit shiny compared to the OLD Floquil. This is not bad if you want to put decals on, because you do not need to spray with a gloss coat. > > Vic Bitleris > Raleigh, NC >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16216	From: jim heckard	Date: 3/3/2011
Subject: item won on eBay

Attachments : IMG_6809_4.JPG IMG_6808_3.JPG IMG_6805_2.JPG IMG_6804_1.JPG           The other day I won an item on eBay that I was hoping was a Hobbies, Inc PB . It came today and my old eyes didn't deceive me. It was the Hobbies, Inc  PB from 1950 and even had the dummy trucks with it. I had won a PA unit a few weeks ago but the B unit definitely has less wear and the body detail is really sharp.      I sent a picture of the ad along about the Hobbies, Inc PA & PB that were cast aluminum. The original kits came with couplers, horns,diaphragms,grab irons, decals and steps. I don't hold out much hope for finding these detail parts but you never know. I do hope to find a box and perhaps some paperwork.      The A unit came without any frame or power unit. It tells you ANY motor truck will fit.( I guess they mean any 6 wheel self contained power truck ) I doubt I will ever get it motorized but I am hoping by sending pictures of the dummy trucks that someone might be able to match them and they might have a set I can buy. Contact off site at jimheck@.... I would be happy to have dummy PA & PB units for my vintage collection. In fact contact me if you have any thing I have described.       Now I must start searching out  the Hobbies, Inc. 1949 E units ( A&B ) that were made from die stamped aluminum and wood pieces. Sounds like an interesting item.                                                 Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 16217	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 3/3/2011
Subject: New Oldies

Attachments : HO Akane PRR 4-4-0 2 crop copy.jpg HO Akane PRR 4-4-0 1 crop copy.jpg 4-2-2 .jpg I hope I didn't nudge out anyone in the list on these. But I'm very happy to have won some recent eBay auctions. The first is a 1959-imported Akane 4-4-0. She's about a vintage 1860's locomotive. She's suffering from a rebuildable nose dive to the floor in the past. It looks like I can rebuild the pilot and upgrade her with improved fittings, a modern motor and a almost invisable drive link between the tender and the cab. She needs the proper service lines along the engine and since she has a primitive air pump on her, she should have brakes on the tender and possibly the engine. I want to finish her with an ornate builders plate and trim between the drivers. More scale looking rods would be a good thing for her as well. I don't think she will remain a PRR locomotive due to the lack of rivets on the tender. That needs to be corrected. The cab has nice lines and really needs a detailing job. She's a nice, sound little model that has been operating on a layout without gathering noticable tire wear. I have some conflicting ideas for the cab windows, If I trim the internal weight to create an view from side to side, I'll do some visible detailing, or I'll prepare some photo-real inserts for the windows and leave the bulk of the internal weight in lace. She will gain a usable front coupler. I might put in a suitable DCC- Sound package. I've seen ones at the LHS that would fit. Next is one of the Aristo-Craft 4-2-2 Bicycles. I got one perhaps three decades ago. That was complete except for one of the foil decorations on it, and the hidden boiler mount was split and needed[s] repair. I now have a very nice duplicate in the mail, coming to me. I want to complete the detailing on one of them and make her more of a scale model. Between the two engines and tenders, that will be the one that is in more used condition. Again with a higher level of details, a much better motor, and most likely DCC-Sound and more complete lighting. [The better pair of the 4-2-2's will likely remain original.] This time I have the proper Aristo Craft box for the 4-4-2. That one is more of a 1880/1890-era locomotive. I want to pair her with 2-3 vintage parlor and business cars as would be expected of a suitable inspection train. I've managed to recently get a Binkley 65- foot [?] arch windowed Official Business car that will be a great match and I have a couple of suitable LaBelle arch window parlor and a more utility style of car to use that would be something on the order of a diner-office car. I will scan the side and end walls before I build the cars. Those scans will later be used to cnc-cut similar cars later on. those won't be duplicates as much as using the doors and windows in a rearranged manner to create other cars. Those scans will become my creation library or clip-art library to make different cars later. The steamer cab sides will go through the same scan and later cut duplicates method. It looks like I can have months of fun with these............ Thank you eBay! Best to ya, Mike Bauers Milwaukee, Wi

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 16218	From: Gerold Eckl	Date: 3/3/2011
Subject: Re: New Oldies [3 Attachments]

Mike, want to share an idea re the P&R Bicycle... this was the first Aristo Craft loco I bought maybe twelve years ago, at an horrendous price... found then that it wont pull anything , with the single wobbly drive axle... despite my attempts to balance all her weight on this axle by tinkering with the spring of the pilot truck. However I found a simple way to greatly improve her tractive effort... the Aristo tender weights almost as much as the loco! ( exaggerated, sorry). So I made a silicone rubber mold from its superstructurem, and then a resin copy which weights almost nothing... so the tender wont take much of her power away. An additional advantage... have kept the Aristo tender shell as is, and have decorated the resin shell with scrolls and California Pacific Letteing, for my private line. Gerold

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16219	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 3/3/2011
Subject: Re: New Oldies

Thanks Gerold. Those are truly excellent ideas. One of the other lists, I think the RGS one, has just posted a link to some fantastic looking period tender and cab decals. You might not know of them. Here's a direct link to that page..... <http://www.pacificng.com/template.php?page=commerce/hds/index.htm> the separated image....... <http://www.pacificng.com/commerce/hds/img/baldwin-style-sample.gif> AH......  I see it was a posting from -our- list, earlier today....... "Pacific Coast Narrow Gauge is offering a set of Baldwin striping and lettering for period locomotives.  Check out their website: http://www.pacificng.com <http://www.pacificng.com/> .  Under "Products", click on Hoefer Design Studio for pictures or contact Craig direct at " posted by "Larry Huber" These are very nice decals! Best to ya, Mike Bauers Milwaukee, Wi On Mar 3, 2011, at 4:44 PM, Gerold Eckl wrote: Mike, want to share an idea re the P&R Bicycle... this was the first Aristo Craft loco I bought maybe twelve years ago, at an horrendous price...   found then that it wont pull anything , with the single wobbly drive axle... despite my attempts to balance all her weight on this axle by tinkering with the spring of the pilot truck. However I found a simple way to greatly improve her tractive effort... the Aristo tender weights almost as much as the loco! ( exaggerated, sorry). So I made a silicone rubber mold from its superstructurem, and then a resin copy which weights almost nothing... so the tender wont take much of her power away. An additional advantage... have kept the Aristo tender shell as is, and have decorated the resin shell with scrolls and California Pacific Letteing, for my private line.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16220	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/3/2011
Subject: Re: Solvents for Testors Floquil

----- Original Message ----- From: <corlissbs@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 9:12 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Solvents for Testors Floquil >I still have a partial can of Dio-Sol and I use it to thin all my Testers > Floquil with no problems. I do also have new, unopened bottles of the > old > Floquil. Unless Testers has changed the formula of Floquil in the last > year, I see no problem using Dio-Sol. I have also used Airbrush Thinner > from > Floquil, but that is the old Floquil and came in a Dio-Sol size can. > > I would try to use Enamel Reducer (Xylol) that can be bought in a large > can, at the hardware store if you are that cheap. It should work. > > I always use lacquer thinner to clean my air brush. It is cheap and > cleans very well. You can do this and just use the Testers thinner to > thin the > paint. That would save you money. > > Brad Smith > Franklin, WI Is Dio-Sol even made anymore? My can shows a revision date on the label of 3/96, made by Testors Canada. The price sticker from Happy Hobby says "Diosol", but the label says "150001 Thinner and Brush Cleaner for all Floquil brand products" Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16221	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 3/3/2011
Subject: Re: Solvents for Testors Floquil

Hi Don, I believe that is the NEW Dio Sol, the old is 140001, I do not believe any Dio SOl is made any longer. Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: don.dellmann@... Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2011 18:05:04 -0600 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Solvents for Testors Floquil   ----- Original Message ----- From: <corlissbs@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 9:12 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Solvents for Testors Floquil >I still have a partial can of Dio-Sol and I use it to thin all my Testers > Floquil with no problems. I do also have new, unopened bottles of the > old > Floquil. Unless Testers has changed the formula of Floquil in the last > year, I see no problem using Dio-Sol. I have also used Airbrush Thinner > from > Floquil, but that is the old Floquil and came in a Dio-Sol size can. > > I would try to use Enamel Reducer (Xylol) that can be bought in a large > can, at the hardware store if you are that cheap. It should work. > > I always use lacquer thinner to clean my air brush. It is cheap and > cleans very well. You can do this and just use the Testers thinner to > thin the > paint. That would save you money. > > Brad Smith > Franklin, WI Is Dio-Sol even made anymore? My can shows a revision date on the label of 3/96, made by Testors Canada. The price sticker from Happy Hobby says "Diosol", but the label says "150001 Thinner and Brush Cleaner for all Floquil brand products" Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16222	From: railroads@slingshot.co.nz	Date: 3/4/2011
Subject: Bowser and Suncoast Models

Hi I have a Bowser HO USRA Mountain Kitset, new in box (kit #100400)what would a current value be of this. Same for a Suncoast Models Grain Elevator Kitset (kit #3060).Brand new box never opened. Current value ? Thanks Charlie Harris New Zealand

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16223	From: PaulP	Date: 3/5/2011
Subject: Solvents for Floquil Paints

I want to thank all who contributed comments to my request for information on Solvents for the New Testors Floquil enamel paints. There were some of you who were particularly helpful and who had experience with the old Floquil DiSol as well as the new Floquil paints and solvents. It was also obvious from some of the conflicting answers that some people were as in the dark or confused as I was when I started out on this quest. Following leads from the group, I did some research on the internet .You really get to appreciate the internet for good information if one can wade through a lot of the irrelevant information. Based on my own experiments and research, I thought it would be worthwhile to share some of this information with this group in appreciation for all the responses to my request. Here goes. Remember these are my opinions and, and I offer them without guarantees or warrantees. To M and V, many thanks. They commented that the newer Floquil paint thins and cleans up well with paint thinner as the solvent. This is mostly mineral spirits which works for most enamel based paints. They also commented that lacquer thinner worked well as a final cleaner for their airbrush. Lacquer thinner is usually a proprietary mixture of solvents including acetone, dimethyl ketone, toluene, alcohol and petroleum distillates (mineral Spirits). It may also contain Stoddard Solvent, is also known as mineral spirits and is often called white spirits outside the USA. I also followed a lead when D mentioned a Testor solvent, 150001 "Enamel Thinner for Airbrushing." Testors modern solvent is found on the "Material Safety Data Sheet" from Testor Corporation on their website at. http://www.testors.com/media/document/MS.0088240.042307.pdf The MSDS product sheet is required from Testor by the FEDs to comply with OSHA requirements for hazardous materials. . . I do not think this information can be proprietary or confidential since it is listed in an open website and available to anyone who has the tenacity to find it. Before mixing these solvents please read the SAFETY WARNINGS listed below as well as on the all labels before using any ingredients. The Testor solvent bottle label has similar warnings.. This is the solvent and brush cleaner for the new Floquil. The data sheet is for #8824 "Universal Enamel Thinner for Airbrushing" The ingredients listed in the data sheet are: VM&P Naphtha (25-30 wt%), Mineral spirits (45-50 wt%) , n-propoxy propanol (20-25 wt%), and high boiling aliphatic hydrocarbon (1-5 wt%) . The relative amounts and hazard data were found on the Testor Corp. Web Site Material Safety Data Sheet. I have not mixed up the ingredients or tried them, but mineral spirits and Naphtha are the majority of the mixture and should work. The mineral spirits are probably why the paint thinners and lacquer thinners work. I have used mineral spirits and lacquer thinners with success. The recipe for the Testor 110001 Thinner and Cleaner is given in the Testor Web Site Material Safety data sheet http://www.testors.com/media/document/MS.F110001.071108.pdf These ingredients are: VM&P Naphtha 40-45 wt%, Xylene 5-10 wt% Ethyl Benzene 1-5 wt% Aromatic Hydrocarbon Solvent (High Boiling) 5-10 wt% Light Aromatic Hydrocarbon 40-45 wt% That is about as far as I can go without consulting a chemist regarding what the specific aromatic hydrocarbons could be and what the ethyl benzene and n-propoxy propanol are used for. If there is a chemist in this group that could help, perhaps they could contact me off line. Till then I'm sticking with Mineral Spirits, naphtha and lacquer thinner that I can get at the local paint store. SAFETY WARNINGS AND NOTES: You have to be very careful when using these solvents. Naphtha and Mineral spirits as well as most commercial solvents are nasty stuff. The vapors are harmful or fatal and should be used only with adequate ventilation, preferably outdoors. Do not get in your eyes; wear goggles. They should not be used without gloves and an apron and should not be inhaled or swallowed or allowed to remain on your clothing. If you experience eye watering, headache or nausea get out immediately and wash well with soap and water. These products are extremely flammable and should be kept away from flames, cigarettes, electric motors and other forms of sparks and heat sources. I assume no responsibility for any problems that might arise from anyone using this information. The ingredients for the old DiSol were also discussed on other web blogs and reported to be about 50/50 Toluene and Xylene. One site listed it as 60/40. Also both are nasty stuff. This is why the new paints do not dissolve or thin as well with the old DiSol. The old DiSol solvent and the new Floquil enamel paint thinner and cleaner appear to be partially non-compatible with 5-10% in the new vs. 40-50 % in the older recipes. Thanks Again, PF Packman

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16224	From: Askerberg	Date: 3/5/2011
Subject: Good day at the show

I netted a Varney NW2 today at a show and also got a Bowser K4. I have posted both in the photos under AL2s stuff. Al

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16225	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 3/5/2011
Subject: Re: Good day at the show

Your photo of the K-4 is labeled as an H-9. Otherwise, good finds! -Steve Neubaum --- On Sat, 3/5/11, Askerberg <aiberg@...> wrote: From: Askerberg <aiberg@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Good day at the show To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, March 5, 2011, 7:55 PM   I netted a Varney NW2 today at a show and also got a Bowser K4. I have posted both in the photos under AL2s stuff. Al

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16226	From: jim heckard	Date: 3/6/2011
Subject: To much stuff ????

Attachments : IMG_6842_11.JPG IMG_6841_10.JPG IMG_6840_9.JPG IMG_6839_8.JPG IMG_6838_7.JPG          My wife is getting on me that I have a little to much stuff in my vintage HO collection. She started saying that after I ask for a little more room. 30' x 20' just doesn't seem to do it anymore.   The freight cars are missing from the sets so I have some to run on the layout. She doesn't see that as creating space. Don't you think she should give me more space ??                                                       Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 16227	From: ckinzer@att.net	Date: 3/6/2011
Subject: Re: To much stuff ???? [11 Attachments]

Perhaps there is some lodge you could join that might have some area that could give you space and you could spend some time enjoying the trains there.  Or perhaps a local bar might enjoy some trains to dress up walls - and you could spend a lot of time there enjoying them.   Yes.  You should get more room.   Also, a lot of these trains are very, very hard to find.  But there are women everywhere.   If I ever placed a personal ad, it would have to include two things:  "Must love trains" and "Must have no living relatives".   Chuck K.     ----- Original Message ----- From: jim heckard To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2011 7:58 AM Subject: [vintageHO] To much stuff ???? [11 Attachments]            My wife is getting on me that I have a little to much stuff in my vintage HO collection. She started saying that after I ask for a little more room. 30' x 20' just doesn't seem to do it anymore.   The freight cars are missing from the sets so I have some to run on the layout. She doesn't see that as creating space. Don't you think she should give me more space ??                                                       Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16228	From: herb1013@epix.net	Date: 3/6/2011
Subject: Re: To much stuff ????

I have a 30 foot by 50 foot  3 story barn that you could store your stuff in. The barn is almost empty but for 2 model A frames. Just kidding but it would make for a great train layout. To bad fixed incomes don’t allow for buying more trains.   Herb     Bionic Herb,Br 38 NALC,Gods Knob, Milk Can Corners

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16229	From: Richard White	Date: 3/6/2011
Subject: Re: To much stuff ???? [11 Attachments]

Jim- Love that collection of yours! What I did was build furniture-qualtiy display cases (birch frames, birch plywood backs, plexiglass fronts) for my Lionel O-gauge collection. My wife didn't object to these being in the living room, and in the office, because they looked nice. Alas, all the ones in the living room are gone, along with those trains, but the office still has trains and cases. Regards- Richard White  To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: jimheck@... Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2011 10:58:44 -0500 Subject: [vintageHO] To much stuff ???? [11 Attachments]   [Attachment(s) from jim heckard included below]          My wife is getting on me that I have a little to much stuff in my vintage HO collection. She started saying that after I ask for a little more room. 30' x 20' just doesn't seem to do it anymore.   The freight cars are missing from the sets so I have some to run on the layout. She doesn't see that as creating space. Don't you think she should give me more space ??                                                       Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16230	From: jim heckard	Date: 3/6/2011
Subject: Re: To much stuff ????

Richard,       After buying all the trains over the last 50+ years no money left for fancy shelving . Just furring strip and lots of cheap track to set them on.(  wonder how much scale footage I have in track just to put the collection on display ? ) I would love Plexiglas covers to stop the dust. I guess I better not ask my wife Louise, who is truly a great women to put up with me and all this,  not to dust the collection off.                                Jim H                       ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard White To: Jim Heckard Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2011 11:37 AM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] To much stuff ????   Jim- Love that collection of yours! What I did was build furniture-qualtiy display cases (birch frames, birch plywood backs, plexiglass fronts) for my Lionel O-gauge collection. My wife didn't object to these being in the living room, and in the office, because they looked nice. Alas, all the ones in the living room are gone, along with those trains, but the office still has trains and cases. Regards- Richard White  To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: jimheck@... Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2011 10:58:44 -0500 Subject: [vintageHO] To much stuff ???? [11 Attachments]   [Attachment(s) from jim heckard included below]          My wife is getting on me that I have a little to much stuff in my vintage HO collection. She started saying that after I ask for a little more room. 30' x 20' just doesn't seem to do it anymore.   The freight cars are missing from the sets so I have some to run on the layout. She doesn't see that as creating space. Don't you think she should give me more space ??                                                       Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16231	From: Chris B	Date: 3/6/2011
Subject: Re: To much stuff ???? [11 Attachments]

Jim, I have the same issue, and keep adding levels to my layout to gain the main line run I need and want....I wish I had as good a funny reply as the ones you've gotten and will get, especially the offer to house your collection for you <G!>, but I will offer one serious crackpot brainstorm that might actually have some merit.  Assuming you want more wall space for collection display shelving, rather than more layout space...now fair warning, I've never seen this done for train displays, but it's gotten pretty common in hardware stores  and some other retail outlets I find myself in when my deep need for more tools seems to take over... Several hardware stores in town here have display shelving that's normal and typical, but they also have a second layer of display spade mounted on horizontal tracks in front of the traditional space.  wish I had a picture, hard to say in words, so here's an example....the aisle full of electrical components has a full set of shallow displays on both sides. then just about 10 inches in front, and starting about two feet up from the ground, resting on the cabinetwork that already sticks out the ten inches and is two feet high, they installed track rails on the cabinet tops that run the full length of the aisle, and are matched by overhead tracks mounted also ten inches out along the top valance over your head.   In this case, there are maybe 8 different section of electrical components displayed for sale on the back wall... Then there are three or four vertical panels that ride on these tracks, moving left and right as you push them with your hand, so that you can always see the items behind, either because they're exposed, or if you pushed one of the front panels out of they way. the items on the front panels are selected for being thinner and lighter, but they're always visible... lot a work for somebody, but maybe something as basic as cheap aluminum patio sliding glass door components could be mounted floor and overhead in front of your existing shelving, and then mount shallow shelves of home made RAILTRAX aluminum stock on both sides of the door frames, so that the door itself held a number of horizontal shelves from top to bottom, you could see thru the doors to see the shelves behind, and you could just slide a door sideways into an empty spot to be able to reach out and touch any of the engines on the back shelves... probably the lighter less precious items like cars and coaches would be a good choice for the front, and there'd have to be an easy way to secure them to the aluminum shelving, maybe little friction clips that grabbed axles --like those clips they sell for holding yard tool handles on your garage wall, but smaller... the patio door assemblies show up all the time here for free or cheap on craigs list, and aluminum drills and cuts and pop rivets together like butter, so maybe not so crazy an idea... what a great problem to have, TOO MUCH VINTAGE HO ROLLING STOCK AND ENGINES!!! Chris B. From: jim heckard <jimheck@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, March 6, 2011 10:58:44 AM Subject: [vintageHO] To much stuff ???? [11 Attachments]            My wife is getting on me that I have a little to much stuff in my vintage HO collection. She started saying that after I ask for a little more room. 30' x 20' just doesn't seem to do it anymore.   The freight cars are missing from the sets so I have some to run on the layout. She doesn't see that as creating space. Don't you think she should give me more space ??                                                       Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16232	From: Chris B	Date: 3/6/2011
Subject: Re: To much stuff ????

ok Jim, now I think you might have to give my crackpot idea another look, the biggest benefit to hiding it all behind free surplus used Craigslist sliding glass patio or shower doors wouldn't just be you could mount plain aluminum stock on them to be extra shelves, but rather that now you've put the entire back shelf under glass and protected from dust! All  you'd have to do is make a full wall of doors, and have every other door blank without any shelving, and that's the door that slides behind the other one, just like regular patio doors! When you win the lottery, you can add humidity and temperature control, security systems, and you will truly have THE JAMES HECKARD VINTAGE HO ENGINE AND ROLLING STOCK MUSEUM! Chris B. From: jim heckard <jimheck@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, March 6, 2011 11:45:33 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] To much stuff ????   Richard,       After buying all the trains over the last 50+ years no money left for fancy shelving . Just furring strip and lots of cheap track to set them on.(  wonder how much scale footage I have in track just to put the collection on display ? ) I would love Plexiglas covers to stop the dust. I guess I better not ask my wife Louise, who is truly a great women to put up with me and all this,  not to dust the collection off.                                Jim H                       ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard White To: Jim Heckard Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2011 11:37 AM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] To much stuff ????   Jim- Love that collection of yours! What I did was build furniture-qualtiy display cases (birch frames, birch plywood backs, plexiglass fronts) for my Lionel O-gauge collection. My wife didn't object to these being in the living room, and in the office, because they looked nice. Alas, all the ones in the living room are gone, along with those trains, but the office still has trains and cases. Regards- Richard White  To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: jimheck@... Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2011 10:58:44 -0500 Subject: [vintageHO] To much stuff ???? [11 Attachments]   [Attachment(s) from jim heckard included below]          My wife is getting on me that I have a little to much stuff in my vintage HO collection. She started saying that after I ask for a little more room. 30' x 20' just doesn't seem to do it anymore.   The freight cars are missing from the sets so I have some to run on the layout. She doesn't see that as creating space. Don't you think she should give me more space ??                                                       Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16233	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 3/6/2011
Subject: Re: To much stuff ????

Jim, I like to think I'm a realist and have to say that you need to have a definite destination for that huge collection when that unfortunate but inevitable time comes when you are no longer around to enjoy it. If anyone thinks that I'm being unnecessarily morbid I would like to point out that your wife will be faced with a very unpleasant task of disposing of all of that stuff--along with what ever else there is when she goes into a retirement community of some sort--assuming she is the survivor of course. If you have this arranged, then go for it and get the room you need. If not, bail the poor woman out while you can. There are people to whom I have talked in those retirement environments who have emphatically stated that no one should have to go through what it takes to empty a house before they can make a move to where ever they have to go for the rest of their lives. It is absolutely nothing to joke about. I'm in the process of gradually dealing with my collection with some of that in mind. There is a core of stuff that I want passed down to the grand kids and hopefully they will treasure some of the really special items. Meanwhile, it's really hard -- as you know-- to sit on my hands and not add more goodies to what I already have. Good luck, and I hope you don't have a relative who has threatened to simply throw everything into the Dumpster if they get stuck with the contents of our house. Have a nice day!   In a message dated 3/6/2011 12:00:34 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, chrisb_acw_rr@... writes: ok Jim, now I think you might have to give my crackpot idea another look, the biggest benefit to hiding it all behind free surplus used Craigslist sliding glass patio or shower doors wouldn't just be you could mount plain aluminum stock on them to be extra shelves, but rather that now you've put the entire back shelf under glass and protected from dust! All  you'd have to do is make a full wall of doors, and have every other door blank without any shelving, and that's the door that slides behind the other one, just like regular patio doors! When you win the lottery, you can add humidity and temperature control, security systems, and you will truly have THE JAMES HECKARD VINTAGE HO ENGINE AND ROLLING STOCK MUSEUM! Chris B. From: jim heckard <jimheck@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, March 6, 2011 11:45:33 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] To much stuff ????   Richard,       After buying all the trains over the last 50+ years no money left for fancy shelving . Just furring strip and lots of cheap track to set them on.(  wonder how much scale footage I have in track just to put the collection on display ? ) I would love Plexiglas covers to stop the dust. I guess I better not ask my wife Louise, who is truly a great women to put up with me and all this,  not to dust the collection off.                                Jim H                       ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard White To: Jim Heckard Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2011 11:37 AM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] To much stuff ????   Jim- Love that collection of yours! What I did was build furniture-qualtiy display cases (birch frames, birch plywood backs, plexiglass fronts) for my Lionel O-gauge collection. My wife didn't object to these being in the living room, and in the office, because they looked nice. Alas, all the ones in the living room are gone, along with those trains, but the office still has trains and cases. Regards- Richard White  To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: jimheck@... Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2011 10:58:44 -0500 Subject: [vintageHO] To much stuff ???? [11 Attachments]   [Attachment(s) from jim heckard included below]          My wife is getting on me that I have a little to much stuff in my vintage HO collection. She started saying that after I ask for a little more room. 30' x 20' just doesn't seem to do it anymore.   The freight cars are missing from the sets so I have some to run on the layout. She doesn't see that as creating space. Don't you think she should give me more space ??                                                       Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16234	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 3/6/2011
Subject: Re: To much stuff ????

I forgot to sign my rant about disposing of the collection   Art W   In a message dated 3/6/2011 12:00:34 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, chrisb_acw_rr@... writes: ok Jim, now I think you might have to give my crackpot idea another look, the biggest benefit to hiding it all behind free surplus used Craigslist sliding glass patio or shower doors wouldn't just be you could mount plain aluminum stock on them to be extra shelves, but rather that now you've put the entire back shelf under glass and protected from dust! All  you'd have to do is make a full wall of doors, and have every other door blank without any shelving, and that's the door that slides behind the other one, just like regular patio doors! When you win the lottery, you can add humidity and temperature control, security systems, and you will truly have THE JAMES HECKARD VINTAGE HO ENGINE AND ROLLING STOCK MUSEUM! Chris B. From: jim heckard <jimheck@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, March 6, 2011 11:45:33 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] To much stuff ????   Richard,       After buying all the trains over the last 50+ years no money left for fancy shelving . Just furring strip and lots of cheap track to set them on.(  wonder how much scale footage I have in track just to put the collection on display ? ) I would love Plexiglas covers to stop the dust. I guess I better not ask my wife Louise, who is truly a great women to put up with me and all this,  not to dust the collection off.                                Jim H                       ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard White To: Jim Heckard Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2011 11:37 AM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] To much stuff ????   Jim- Love that collection of yours! What I did was build furniture-qualtiy display cases (birch frames, birch plywood backs, plexiglass fronts) for my Lionel O-gauge collection. My wife didn't object to these being in the living room, and in the office, because they looked nice. Alas, all the ones in the living room are gone, along with those trains, but the office still has trains and cases. Regards- Richard White  To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: jimheck@... Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2011 10:58:44 -0500 Subject: [vintageHO] To much stuff ???? [11 Attachments]   [Attachment(s) from jim heckard included below]          My wife is getting on me that I have a little to much stuff in my vintage HO collection. She started saying that after I ask for a little more room. 30' x 20' just doesn't seem to do it anymore.   The freight cars are missing from the sets so I have some to run on the layout. She doesn't see that as creating space. Don't you think she should give me more space ??                                                       Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16235	From: jim heckard	Date: 3/6/2011
Subject: Re: To much stuff ????

Hi Art       Some of what you talk about is already taken care of or in the planning stages. I have a son and a daughter. They will be splitting the collection unless my wife needs the money from the collection for other purposes.   I have been keeping track of my collection since just about the beginning. I have always kept books about each item, where it came from and I actually have every check or money order from every item I purchase. Since my wife worked in an insurance office at first pictures and list constantly updated every year became the norm. I have a rough high and low price list for each item. I have a certain number of close train friends I implicitly trust to help my wife if needed and a certain list of train places to try to sell through. Again all this is if my wife needs to sell them.     Now as to my son and daughter. I hope to be able to pass the collection on to them. They have access to the same books and information so they have some idea of what's what.     I will pass along a funny story about my two children from a few years back when I mentioned the will get the trains The first thing out of their mouths is what will I do with all those trains. I then mentioned that there could be worth $35,000 or more tied up in the trains. There next questions were show them  which ones were worth the most. All of a sudden trains had a little more meaning. Believe me over the years they have learned a little of the value and have already split the collection. Once I kick the bucket I'm sure one way or another the trains will be covered and the least of the worries. They probably will have more problems splitting the home and contents. I'm not worried because they are both very level headed and there will be no disputes.       Of course all this will be a mute point if I can talk St. Peter into letting me bring the collection through the holy gates. Maybe he likes HO trains.                                               Jim H ----- Original Message ----- From: luvprr@... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2011 12:29 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] To much stuff ????   Jim, I like to think I'm a realist and have to say that you need to have a definite destination for that huge collection when that unfortunate but inevitable time comes when you are no longer around to enjoy it. If anyone thinks that I'm being unnecessarily morbid I would like to point out that your wife will be faced with a very unpleasant task of disposing of all of that stuff--along with what ever else there is when she goes into a retirement community of some sort--assuming she is the survivor of course. If you have this arranged, then go for it and get the room you need. If not, bail the poor woman out while you can. There are people to whom I have talked in those retirement environments who have emphatically stated that no one should have to go through what it takes to empty a house before they can make a move to where ever they have to go for the rest of their lives. It is absolutely nothing to joke about. I'm in the process of gradually dealing with my collection with some of that in mind. There is a core of stuff that I want passed down to the grand kids and hopefully they will treasure some of the really special items. Meanwhile, it's really hard -- as you know-- to sit on my hands and not add more goodies to what I already have. Good luck, and I hope you don't have a relative who has threatened to simply throw everything into the Dumpster if they get stuck with the contents of our house. Have a nice day!   In a message dated 3/6/2011 12:00:34 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, chrisb_acw_rr@... writes: ok Jim, now I think you might have to give my crackpot idea another look, the biggest benefit to hiding it all behind free surplus used Craigslist sliding glass patio or shower doors wouldn't just be you could mount plain aluminum stock on them to be extra shelves, but rather that now you've put the entire back shelf under glass and protected from dust! All  you'd have to do is make a full wall of doors, and have every other door blank without any shelving, and that's the door that slides behind the other one, just like regular patio doors! When you win the lottery, you can add humidity and temperature control, security systems, and you will truly have THE JAMES HECKARD VINTAGE HO ENGINE AND ROLLING STOCK MUSEUM! Chris B. From: jim heckard <jimheck@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, March 6, 2011 11:45:33 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] To much stuff ????   Richard,       After buying all the trains over the last 50+ years no money left for fancy shelving . Just furring strip and lots of cheap track to set them on.(  wonder how much scale footage I have in track just to put the collection on display ? ) I would love Plexiglas covers to stop the dust. I guess I better not ask my wife Louise, who is truly a great women to put up with me and all this,  not to dust the collection off.                                Jim H                       ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard White To: Jim Heckard Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2011 11:37 AM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] To much stuff ????   Jim- Love that collection of yours! What I did was build furniture-qualtiy display cases (birch frames, birch plywood backs, plexiglass fronts) for my Lionel O-gauge collection. My wife didn't object to these being in the living room, and in the office, because they looked nice. Alas, all the ones in the living room are gone, along with those trains, but the office still has trains and cases. Regards- Richard White  To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: jimheck@... Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2011 10:58:44 -0500 Subject: [vintageHO] To much stuff ???? [11 Attachments]   [Attachment(s) from jim heckard included below]          My wife is getting on me that I have a little to much stuff in my vintage HO collection. She started saying that after I ask for a little more room. 30' x 20' just doesn't seem to do it anymore.   The freight cars are missing from the sets so I have some to run on the layout. She doesn't see that as creating space. Don't you think she should give me more space ??                                                       Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16236	From: Chris B	Date: 3/6/2011
Subject: Re: To much stuff ????

Art, you're right about it being something that it's probably important for each collector to deal with in the way that suits them best. In my own case, I've made arrangements for donation of the special W&OD prototype models, and made photo and listing descriptions of everything else, including all the tools, for my survivor, spouse or children, to  use in selling it all on ebay, or in handing it over in total for their agent or some deserving charity to sell on ebay, however they choose to do it. The easiest part is that since most of it was bought on ebay, and because I saved many of those listings while the auctions were going on, so in many cases where the photo and desc. were good...all I had to do was print out the original ebay listing with photo description, and price, and fold that up and stuff it in the box with the model.  The tools I just shoved all the printouts of the listings in a drawer, they can more easily sell that sort of thing on craigslist, or all as one lot to whoever. It's a lot easier to justify basements and closets full of boxes of trains if they'll be that easy to dispose of when you've passed on and folks look at that stuffed closet and imagine all that stuff just GONE...that's when they  have the same look on their face that model railroaders have when they look at big empty basements.... all wide-eyed and grinning! Chris B. From: "luvprr@..." <luvprr@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, March 6, 2011 12:37:25 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] To much stuff ????   I forgot to sign my rant about disposing of the collection   Art W   In a message dated 3/6/2011 12:00:34 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, chrisb_acw_rr@... writes: ok Jim, now I think you might have to give my crackpot idea another look, the biggest benefit to hiding it all behind free surplus used Craigslist sliding glass patio or shower doors wouldn't just be you could mount plain aluminum stock on them to be extra shelves, but rather that now you've put the entire back shelf under glass and protected from dust! All  you'd have to do is make a full wall of doors, and have every other door blank without any shelving, and that's the door that slides behind the other one, just like regular patio doors! When you win the lottery, you can add humidity and temperature control, security systems, and you will truly have THE JAMES HECKARD VINTAGE HO ENGINE AND ROLLING STOCK MUSEUM! Chris B. From: jim heckard <jimheck@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, March 6, 2011 11:45:33 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] To much stuff ????   Richard,       After buying all the trains over the last 50+ years no money left for fancy shelving . Just furring strip and lots of cheap track to set them on.(  wonder how much scale footage I have in track just to put the collection on display ? ) I would love Plexiglas covers to stop the dust. I guess I better not ask my wife Louise, who is truly a great women to put up with me and all this,  not to dust the collection off.                                Jim H                       ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard White To: Jim Heckard Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2011 11:37 AM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] To much stuff ????   Jim- Love that collection of yours! What I did was build furniture-qualtiy display cases (birch frames, birch plywood backs, plexiglass fronts) for my Lionel O-gauge collection. My wife didn't object to these being in the living room, and in the office, because they looked nice. Alas, all the ones in the living room are gone, along with those trains, but the office still has trains and cases. Regards- Richard White  To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: jimheck@... Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2011 10:58:44 -0500 Subject: [vintageHO] To much stuff ???? [11 Attachments]   [Attachment(s) from jim heckard included below]          My wife is getting on me that I have a little to much stuff in my vintage HO collection. She started saying that after I ask for a little more room. 30' x 20' just doesn't seem to do it anymore.   The freight cars are missing from the sets so I have some to run on the layout. She doesn't see that as creating space. Don't you think she should give me more space ??                                                       Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16237	From: ckinzer@att.net	Date: 3/6/2011
Subject: Re: To much stuff ????

 I've seen at least one hobby shop with that scheme of sliding panels full of detail parts bags in front of a wall of more detail parts bags.  I think, to maximize storage, that there was only one empty space in the front panel (leading to a battle of wills of two or more are searching for parts I guess).  That works out OK to have more stuff to "search" for in that application, but seems counterproductive for a traditional "display" application to me.   The current storage could definitely be more dense.  There could be thinner shelving material and less intershelf spacing.  You only need about the space of a little more than a finger to get things on and off.  If you wanted to get insane about spacing, you could fashion some padded thin tongs and probably only have about a quarter inch air space above you talles item.   Also, you could forego the track and save vertical space that way.  To keep trucks aligned, you can have grooves in the wood spaced a flange width apart.  If doing this, the wood should be well sealed so that no moisture in the wood can harm any wheel treads (unlikely anyway, but possible maybe).   It also saves space to avoid having everything spaced for the worst case scenario.  You can have some taller shelves for tall things (like things with pantographs), and the rest for the standard height items.   Something I have thought of for myself (someday) is to have two rows on each shelf withe the upper row raised.  If the riser was a solid block in cross section, it would provide a lot of strength and allow that part of the shelf extending forward for the front row to be even thinner.  The rise only needs to be raised enough to show what care to see.  If you don't care if you see trucks, then it can be shorter.  If you want to see everything, then a little taller.  Either way the number of shelf thicknesses (which is wasted vertical display space) gets cut in half.  Standard 1x4 lumber is wide enough (3 1/2 inches) but just barely.  It's hard to see in your pictures if that is the case, but if so, your vertical spacing already seems enough that you could retrofit what you have.  Instant "doubling" of space with very little effect, if any, on depth.   For a little more depth, that idea could be extended to have three stairstepped levels, or four.   Another thing you see the tinplate guys do all the time is have more shelves below the fascia on the layout.  This also hides the storage space there.  If necessary, one or more can be made swing out if you want a lot of access to the storage there.  Or there can be a mix of shelves and either open spaces or the ubiquitous draperies.   I don't worry much about any difficulty of placing or removing things from shelves.  Unlike a display in a hobby shop, home displays can go for years (like some O tinplate I have on aluminum shelves with plexiglas) without being touched.   Chuck Kinzer    ----- Original Message ----- From: Chris B To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2011 8:52 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] To much stuff ????   Jim, I have the same issue, and keep adding levels to my layout to gain the main line run I need and want....I wish I had as good a funny reply as the ones you've gotten and will get, especially the offer to house your collection for you <G!>, but I will offer one serious crackpot brainstorm that might actually have some merit.  Assuming you want more wall space for collection display shelving, rather than more layout space...now fair warning, I've never seen this done for train displays, but it's gotten pretty common in hardware stores  and some other retail outlets I find myself in when my deep need for more tools seems to take over... Several hardware stores in town here have display shelving that's normal and typical, but they also have a second layer of display spade mounted on horizontal tracks in front of the traditional space.  wish I had a picture, hard to say in words, so here's an example....the aisle full of electrical components has a full set of shallow displays on both sides. then just about 10 inches in front, and starting about two feet up from the ground, resting on the cabinetwork that already sticks out the ten inches and is two feet high, they installed track rails on the cabinet tops that run the full length of the aisle, and are matched by overhead tracks mounted also ten inches out along the top valance over your head.   In this case, there are maybe 8 different section of electrical components displayed for sale on the back wall... Then there are three or four vertical panels that ride on these tracks, moving left and right as you push them with your hand, so that you can always see the items behind, either because they're exposed, or if you pushed one of the front panels out of they way. the items on the front panels are selected for being thinner and lighter, but they're always visible... lot a work for somebody, but maybe something as basic as cheap aluminum patio sliding glass door components could be mounted floor and overhead in front of your existing shelving, and then mount shallow shelves of home made RAILTRAX aluminum stock on both sides of the door frames, so that the door itself held a number of horizontal shelves from top to bottom, you could see thru the doors to see the shelves behind, and you could just slide a door sideways into an empty spot to be able to reach out and touch any of the engines on the back shelves... probably the lighter less precious items like cars and coaches would be a good choice for the front, and there'd have to be an easy way to secure them to the aluminum shelving, maybe little friction clips that grabbed axles --like those clips they sell for holding yard tool handles on your garage wall, but smaller... the patio door assemblies show up all the time here for free or cheap on craigs list, and aluminum drills and cuts and pop rivets together like butter, so maybe not so crazy an idea... what a great problem to have, TOO MUCH VINTAGE HO ROLLING STOCK AND ENGINES!!! Chris B. From: jim heckard <jimheck@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, March 6, 2011 10:58:44 AM Subject: [vintageHO] To much stuff ???? [11 Attachments]            My wife is getting on me that I have a little to much stuff in my vintage HO collection. She started saying that after I ask for a little more room. 30' x 20' just doesn't seem to do it anymore.   The freight cars are missing from the sets so I have some to run on the layout. She doesn't see that as creating space. Don't you think she should give me more space ??                                                       Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16238	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 3/6/2011
Subject: Re: To much stuff ????

Jim, Funny how most people who look at collections of rare items see them only in terms of how much money they are worth. Visited a museum in New England once where there were models of sailing ships in glass cases that were, of course, scratch built many years ago. People standing nearby were reacting with a kind of polite, ho-hum attitude until a knowledgeable person working at the museum pointed out how many thousands they would be worth on the collectibles market. There was a sudden sound of ooohs and ahs, and a much closer examination of the fine details along with smudges of noses on the glass. I guess they should have classes in the appreciation of models as well as fine art and music!   Art W   In a message dated 3/6/2011 1:05:08 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, jimheck@... writes: Hi Art       Some of what you talk about is already taken care of or in the planning stages. I have a son and a daughter. They will be splitting the collection unless my wife needs the money from the collection for other purposes.   I have been keeping track of my collection since just about the beginning. I have always kept books about each item, where it came from and I actually have every check or money order from every item I purchase. Since my wife worked in an insurance office at first pictures and list constantly updated every year became the norm. I have a rough high and low price list for each item. I have a certain number of close train friends I implicitly trust to help my wife if needed and a certain list of train places to try to sell through. Again all this is if my wife needs to sell them.     Now as to my son and daughter. I hope to be able to pass the collection on to them. They have access to the same books and information so they have some idea of what's what.     I will pass along a funny story about my two children from a few years back when I mentioned the will get the trains The first thing out of their mouths is what will I do with all those trains. I then mentioned that there could be worth $35,000 or more tied up in the trains. There next questions were show them  which ones were worth the most. All of a sudden trains had a little more meaning. Believe me over the years they have learned a little of the value and have already split the collection. Once I kick the bucket I'm sure one way or another the trains will be covered and the least of the worries. They probably will have more problems splitting the home and contents. I'm not worried because they are both very level headed and there will be no disputes.       Of course all this will be a mute point if I can talk St. Peter into letting me bring the collection through the holy gates. Maybe he likes HO trains.                                               Jim H ----- Original Message ----- From: luvprr@... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2011 12:29 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] To much stuff ????   Jim, I like to think I'm a realist and have to say that you need to have a definite destination for that huge collection when that unfortunate but inevitable time comes when you are no longer around to enjoy it. If anyone thinks that I'm being unnecessarily morbid I would like to point out that your wife will be faced with a very unpleasant task of disposing of all of that stuff--along with what ever else there is when she goes into a retirement community of some sort--assuming she is the survivor of course. If you have this arranged, then go for it and get the room you need. If not, bail the poor woman out while you can. There are people to whom I have talked in those retirement environments who have emphatically stated that no one should have to go through what it takes to empty a house before they can make a move to where ever they have to go for the rest of their lives. It is absolutely nothing to joke about. I'm in the process of gradually dealing with my collection with some of that in mind. There is a core of stuff that I want passed down to the grand kids and hopefully they will treasure some of the really special items. Meanwhile, it's really hard -- as you know-- to sit on my hands and not add more goodies to what I already have. Good luck, and I hope you don't have a relative who has threatened to simply throw everything into the Dumpster if they get stuck with the contents of our house. Have a nice day!   In a message dated 3/6/2011 12:00:34 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, chrisb_acw_rr@... writes: ok Jim, now I think you might have to give my crackpot idea another look, the biggest benefit to hiding it all behind free surplus used Craigslist sliding glass patio or shower doors wouldn't just be you could mount plain aluminum stock on them to be extra shelves, but rather that now you've put the entire back shelf under glass and protected from dust! All  you'd have to do is make a full wall of doors, and have every other door blank without any shelving, and that's the door that slides behind the other one, just like regular patio doors! When you win the lottery, you can add humidity and temperature control, security systems, and you will truly have THE JAMES HECKARD VINTAGE HO ENGINE AND ROLLING STOCK MUSEUM! Chris B. From: jim heckard <jimheck@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, March 6, 2011 11:45:33 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] To much stuff ????   Richard,       After buying all the trains over the last 50+ years no money left for fancy shelving . Just furring strip and lots of cheap track to set them on.(  wonder how much scale footage I have in track just to put the collection on display ? ) I would love Plexiglas covers to stop the dust. I guess I better not ask my wife Louise, who is truly a great women to put up with me and all this,  not to dust the collection off.                                Jim H                       ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard White To: Jim Heckard Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2011 11:37 AM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] To much stuff ????   Jim- Love that collection of yours! What I did was build furniture-qualtiy display cases (birch frames, birch plywood backs, plexiglass fronts) for my Lionel O-gauge collection. My wife didn't object to these being in the living room, and in the office, because they looked nice. Alas, all the ones in the living room are gone, along with those trains, but the office still has trains and cases. Regards- Richard White  To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: jimheck@... Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2011 10:58:44 -0500 Subject: [vintageHO] To much stuff ???? [11 Attachments]   [Attachment(s) from jim heckard included below]          My wife is getting on me that I have a little to much stuff in my vintage HO collection. She started saying that after I ask for a little more room. 30' x 20' just doesn't seem to do it anymore.   The freight cars are missing from the sets so I have some to run on the layout. She doesn't see that as creating space. Don't you think she should give me more space ??                                                       Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16239	From: ckinzer@att.net	Date: 3/6/2011
Subject: Re: To much stuff ????

RE:  "I'm not worried because they are both very level headed and there will be no disputes."  I bet a lot of estate handlers have heard that many times.   If you children want the collection to convert it to money, you might consider arranging for someone to do that and then split the proceeds with two checks.  If each is going to try and handle that themselves, even if they were experts, they probably won't end up with the same dollar value at the end of the day.  It isn't unusual in such cases where people get what they think is an equal split of "stuff" to find out later that it wasn't as equal as they thought.  But money can be split quite evently except for arguing over an odd penny.   Chuck Kinzer   ----- Original Message ----- From: jim heckard To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2011 10:04 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] To much stuff ????   Hi Art       Some of what you talk about is already taken care of or in the planning stages. I have a son and a daughter. They will be splitting the collection unless my wife needs the money from the collection for other purposes.   I have been keeping track of my collection since just about the beginning. I have always kept books about each item, where it came from and I actually have every check or money order from every item I purchase. Since my wife worked in an insurance office at first pictures and list constantly updated every year became the norm. I have a rough high and low price list for each item. I have a certain number of close train friends I implicitly trust to help my wife if needed and a certain list of train places to try to sell through. Again all this is if my wife needs to sell them.     Now as to my son and daughter. I hope to be able to pass the collection on to them. They have access to the same books and information so they have some idea of what's what.     I will pass along a funny story about my two children from a few years back when I mentioned the will get the trains The first thing out of their mouths is what will I do with all those trains. I then mentioned that there could be worth $35,000 or more tied up in the trains. There next questions were show them  which ones were worth the most. All of a sudden trains had a little more meaning. Believe me over the years they have learned a little of the value and have already split the collection. Once I kick the bucket I'm sure one way or another the trains will be covered and the least of the worries. They probably will have more problems splitting the home and contents. I'm not worried because they are both very level headed and there will be no disputes.       Of course all this will be a mute point if I can talk St. Peter into letting me bring the collection through the holy gates. Maybe he likes HO trains.                                               Jim H ----- Original Message ----- From: luvprr@... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2011 12:29 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] To much stuff ????   Jim, I like to think I'm a realist and have to say that you need to have a definite destination for that huge collection when that unfortunate but inevitable time comes when you are no longer around to enjoy it. If anyone thinks that I'm being unnecessarily morbid I would like to point out that your wife will be faced with a very unpleasant task of disposing of all of that stuff--along with what ever else there is when she goes into a retirement community of some sort--assuming she is the survivor of course. If you have this arranged, then go for it and get the room you need. If not, bail the poor woman out while you can. There are people to whom I have talked in those retirement environments who have emphatically stated that no one should have to go through what it takes to empty a house before they can make a move to where ever they have to go for the rest of their lives. It is absolutely nothing to joke about. I'm in the process of gradually dealing with my collection with some of that in mind. There is a core of stuff that I want passed down to the grand kids and hopefully they will treasure some of the really special items. Meanwhile, it's really hard -- as you know-- to sit on my hands and not add more goodies to what I already have. Good luck, and I hope you don't have a relative who has threatened to simply throw everything into the Dumpster if they get stuck with the contents of our house. Have a nice day!   In a message dated 3/6/2011 12:00:34 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, chrisb_acw_rr@... writes: ok Jim, now I think you might have to give my crackpot idea another look, the biggest benefit to hiding it all behind free surplus used Craigslist sliding glass patio or shower doors wouldn't just be you could mount plain aluminum stock on them to be extra shelves, but rather that now you've put the entire back shelf under glass and protected from dust! All  you'd have to do is make a full wall of doors, and have every other door blank without any shelving, and that's the door that slides behind the other one, just like regular patio doors! When you win the lottery, you can add humidity and temperature control, security systems, and you will truly have THE JAMES HECKARD VINTAGE HO ENGINE AND ROLLING STOCK MUSEUM! Chris B. From: jim heckard <jimheck@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, March 6, 2011 11:45:33 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] To much stuff ????   Richard,       After buying all the trains over the last 50+ years no money left for fancy shelving . Just furring strip and lots of cheap track to set them on.(  wonder how much scale footage I have in track just to put the collection on display ? ) I would love Plexiglas covers to stop the dust. I guess I better not ask my wife Louise, who is truly a great women to put up with me and all this,  not to dust the collection off.                                Jim H                       ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard White To: Jim Heckard Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2011 11:37 AM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] To much stuff ????   Jim- Love that collection of yours! What I did was build furniture-qualtiy display cases (birch frames, birch plywood backs, plexiglass fronts) for my Lionel O-gauge collection. My wife didn't object to these being in the living room, and in the office, because they looked nice. Alas, all the ones in the living room are gone, along with those trains, but the office still has trains and cases. Regards- Richard White  To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: jimheck@... Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2011 10:58:44 -0500 Subject: [vintageHO] To much stuff ???? [11 Attachments]   [Attachment(s) from jim heckard included below]          My wife is getting on me that I have a little to much stuff in my vintage HO collection. She started saying that after I ask for a little more room. 30' x 20' just doesn't seem to do it anymore.   The freight cars are missing from the sets so I have some to run on the layout. She doesn't see that as creating space. Don't you think she should give me more space ??                                                       Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16240	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 3/6/2011
Subject: Re: To much stuff ????

In a message dated 3/6/2011 1:22:09 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, ckinzer@... writes: RE:  "I'm not worried because they are both very level headed and there will be no disputes."  I bet a lot of estate handlers have heard that many times.   If you children want the collection to convert it to money, you might consider arranging for someone to do that and then split the proceeds with two checks.  If each is going to try and handle that themselves, even if they were experts, they probably won't end up with the same dollar value at the end of the day.  It isn't unusual in such cases where people get what they think is an equal split of "stuff" to find out later that it wasn't as equal as they thought.  But money can be split quite evently except for arguing over an odd penny.   Chuck Kinzer   ----- Original Message ----- From: jim heckard To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2011 10:04 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] To much stuff ????   Hi Art       Some of what you talk about is already taken care of or in the planning stages. I have a son and a daughter. They will be splitting the collection unless my wife needs the money from the collection for other purposes.   I have been keeping track of my collection since just about the beginning. I have always kept books about each item, where it came from and I actually have every check or money order from every item I purchase. Since my wife worked in an insurance office at first pictures and list constantly updated every year became the norm. I have a rough high and low price list for each item. I have a certain number of close train friends I implicitly trust to help my wife if needed and a certain list of train places to try to sell through. Again all this is if my wife needs to sell them.     Now as to my son and daughter. I hope to be able to pass the collection on to them. They have access to the same books and information so they have some idea of what's what.     I will pass along a funny story about my two children from a few years back when I mentioned the will get the trains The first thing out of their mouths is what will I do with all those trains. I then mentioned that there could be worth $35,000 or more tied up in the trains. There next questions were show them  which ones were worth the most. All of a sudden trains had a little more meaning. Believe me over the years they have learned a little of the value and have already split the collection. Once I kick the bucket I'm sure one way or another the trains will be covered and the least of the worries. They probably will have more problems splitting the home and contents. I'm not worried because they are both very level headed and there will be no disputes.       Of course all this will be a mute point if I can talk St. Peter into letting me bring the collection through the holy gates. Maybe he likes HO trains.                                               Jim H ----- Original Message ----- From: luvprr@... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2011 12:29 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] To much stuff ????   Jim, I like to think I'm a realist and have to say that you need to have a definite destination for that huge collection when that unfortunate but inevitable time comes when you are no longer around to enjoy it. If anyone thinks that I'm being unnecessarily morbid I would like to point out that your wife will be faced with a very unpleasant task of disposing of all of that stuff--along with what ever else there is when she goes into a retirement community of some sort--assuming she is the survivor of course. If you have this arranged, then go for it and get the room you need. If not, bail the poor woman out while you can. There are people to whom I have talked in those retirement environments who have emphatically stated that no one should have to go through what it takes to empty a house before they can make a move to where ever they have to go for the rest of their lives. It is absolutely nothing to joke about. I'm in the process of gradually dealing with my collection with some of that in mind. There is a core of stuff that I want passed down to the grand kids and hopefully they will treasure some of the really special items. Meanwhile, it's really hard -- as you know-- to sit on my hands and not add more goodies to what I already have. Good luck, and I hope you don't have a relative who has threatened to simply throw everything into the Dumpster if they get stuck with the contents of our house. Have a nice day!   In a message dated 3/6/2011 12:00:34 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, chrisb_acw_rr@... writes: ok Jim, now I think you might have to give my crackpot idea another look, the biggest benefit to hiding it all behind free surplus used Craigslist sliding glass patio or shower doors wouldn't just be you could mount plain aluminum stock on them to be extra shelves, but rather that now you've put the entire back shelf under glass and protected from dust! All  you'd have to do is make a full wall of doors, and have every other door blank without any shelving, and that's the door that slides behind the other one, just like regular patio doors! When you win the lottery, you can add humidity and temperature control, security systems, and you will truly have THE JAMES HECKARD VINTAGE HO ENGINE AND ROLLING STOCK MUSEUM! Chris B. From: jim heckard <jimheck@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, March 6, 2011 11:45:33 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] To much stuff ????   Richard,       After buying all the trains over the last 50+ years no money left for fancy shelving . Just furring strip and lots of cheap track to set them on.(  wonder how much scale footage I have in track just to put the collection on display ? ) I would love Plexiglas covers to stop the dust. I guess I better not ask my wife Louise, who is truly a great women to put up with me and all this,  not to dust the collection off.                                Jim H                       ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard White To: Jim Heckard Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2011 11:37 AM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] To much stuff ????   Jim- Love that collection of yours! What I did was build furniture-qualtiy display cases (birch frames, birch plywood backs, plexiglass fronts) for my Lionel O-gauge collection. My wife didn't object to these being in the living room, and in the office, because they looked nice. Alas, all the ones in the living room are gone, along with those trains, but the office still has trains and cases. Regards- Richard White  To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: jimheck@... Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2011 10:58:44 -0500 Subject: [vintageHO] To much stuff ???? [11 Attachments]   [Attachment(s) from jim heckard included below]          My wife is getting on me that I have a little to much stuff in my vintage HO collection. She started saying that after I ask for a little more room. 30' x 20' just doesn't seem to do it anymore.   The freight cars are missing from the sets so I have some to run on the layout. She doesn't see that as creating space. Don't you think she should give me more space ??                                                       Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16241	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 3/6/2011
Subject: Re: To much stuff ????

I'm afraid Chuck has it right.   Art W   In a message dated 3/6/2011 1:22:09 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, ckinzer@... writes: RE:  "I'm not worried because they are both very level headed and there will be no disputes."  I bet a lot of estate handlers have heard that many times.   If you children want the collection to convert it to money, you might consider arranging for someone to do that and then split the proceeds with two checks.  If each is going to try and handle that themselves, even if they were experts, they probably won't end up with the same dollar value at the end of the day.  It isn't unusual in such cases where people get what they think is an equal split of "stuff" to find out later that it wasn't as equal as they thought.  But money can be split quite evently except for arguing over an odd penny.   Chuck Kinzer   ----- Original Message ----- From: jim heckard To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2011 10:04 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] To much stuff ????   Hi Art       Some of what you talk about is already taken care of or in the planning stages. I have a son and a daughter. They will be splitting the collection unless my wife needs the money from the collection for other purposes.   I have been keeping track of my collection since just about the beginning. I have always kept books about each item, where it came from and I actually have every check or money order from every item I purchase. Since my wife worked in an insurance office at first pictures and list constantly updated every year became the norm. I have a rough high and low price list for each item. I have a certain number of close train friends I implicitly trust to help my wife if needed and a certain list of train places to try to sell through. Again all this is if my wife needs to sell them.     Now as to my son and daughter. I hope to be able to pass the collection on to them. They have access to the same books and information so they have some idea of what's what.     I will pass along a funny story about my two children from a few years back when I mentioned the will get the trains The first thing out of their mouths is what will I do with all those trains. I then mentioned that there could be worth $35,000 or more tied up in the trains. There next questions were show them  which ones were worth the most. All of a sudden trains had a little more meaning. Believe me over the years they have learned a little of the value and have already split the collection. Once I kick the bucket I'm sure one way or another the trains will be covered and the least of the worries. They probably will have more problems splitting the home and contents. I'm not worried because they are both very level headed and there will be no disputes.       Of course all this will be a mute point if I can talk St. Peter into letting me bring the collection through the holy gates. Maybe he likes HO trains.                                               Jim H ----- Original Message ----- From: luvprr@... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2011 12:29 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] To much stuff ????   Jim, I like to think I'm a realist and have to say that you need to have a definite destination for that huge collection when that unfortunate but inevitable time comes when you are no longer around to enjoy it. If anyone thinks that I'm being unnecessarily morbid I would like to point out that your wife will be faced with a very unpleasant task of disposing of all of that stuff--along with what ever else there is when she goes into a retirement community of some sort--assuming she is the survivor of course. If you have this arranged, then go for it and get the room you need. If not, bail the poor woman out while you can. There are people to whom I have talked in those retirement environments who have emphatically stated that no one should have to go through what it takes to empty a house before they can make a move to where ever they have to go for the rest of their lives. It is absolutely nothing to joke about. I'm in the process of gradually dealing with my collection with some of that in mind. There is a core of stuff that I want passed down to the grand kids and hopefully they will treasure some of the really special items. Meanwhile, it's really hard -- as you know-- to sit on my hands and not add more goodies to what I already have. Good luck, and I hope you don't have a relative who has threatened to simply throw everything into the Dumpster if they get stuck with the contents of our house. Have a nice day!   In a message dated 3/6/2011 12:00:34 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, chrisb_acw_rr@... writes: ok Jim, now I think you might have to give my crackpot idea another look, the biggest benefit to hiding it all behind free surplus used Craigslist sliding glass patio or shower doors wouldn't just be you could mount plain aluminum stock on them to be extra shelves, but rather that now you've put the entire back shelf under glass and protected from dust! All  you'd have to do is make a full wall of doors, and have every other door blank without any shelving, and that's the door that slides behind the other one, just like regular patio doors! When you win the lottery, you can add humidity and temperature control, security systems, and you will truly have THE JAMES HECKARD VINTAGE HO ENGINE AND ROLLING STOCK MUSEUM! Chris B. From: jim heckard <jimheck@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, March 6, 2011 11:45:33 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] To much stuff ????   Richard,       After buying all the trains over the last 50+ years no money left for fancy shelving . Just furring strip and lots of cheap track to set them on.(  wonder how much scale footage I have in track just to put the collection on display ? ) I would love Plexiglas covers to stop the dust. I guess I better not ask my wife Louise, who is truly a great women to put up with me and all this,  not to dust the collection off.                                Jim H                       ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard White To: Jim Heckard Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2011 11:37 AM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] To much stuff ????   Jim- Love that collection of yours! What I did was build furniture-qualtiy display cases (birch frames, birch plywood backs, plexiglass fronts) for my Lionel O-gauge collection. My wife didn't object to these being in the living room, and in the office, because they looked nice. Alas, all the ones in the living room are gone, along with those trains, but the office still has trains and cases. Regards- Richard White  To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: jimheck@... Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2011 10:58:44 -0500 Subject: [vintageHO] To much stuff ???? [11 Attachments]   [Attachment(s) from jim heckard included below]          My wife is getting on me that I have a little to much stuff in my vintage HO collection. She started saying that after I ask for a little more room. 30' x 20' just doesn't seem to do it anymore.   The freight cars are missing from the sets so I have some to run on the layout. She doesn't see that as creating space. Don't you think she should give me more space ??                                                       Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16242	From: jim heckard	Date: 3/6/2011
Subject: Re: To much stuff ????

Chuck,       In all honesty my wife is a saint and a dream. 44 years of marriage and I'd do it all over again. She is just worried that my want for more train room would mean she would lose some of her private sewing area. She has been involved in the sewing apparel industry for most of her life. Almost 45 years now. She quite the insurance business because of it. She in now in product development and quality control for a major apparel company ( still in the US ) although she deals with many countries. I'll never understand how she can work at a job all day and come home and almost do the same job as a hobby. Her 20' x 30 'section of the basement houses all her sewing machines, marrowing machine, zig zag machines. and materials. This is her "PRIVATE DOMAIN"    In other words "STAY OUT"   I have learned the major word is " COMPROMISE".                                                                   Jim H ----- Original Message ----- From: ckinzer@... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2011 11:19 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] To much stuff ????   Perhaps there is some lodge you could join that might have some area that could give you space and you could spend some time enjoying the trains there.  Or perhaps a local bar might enjoy some trains to dress up walls - and you could spend a lot of time there enjoying them.   Yes.  You should get more room.   Also, a lot of these trains are very, very hard to find.  But there are women everywhere.   If I ever placed a personal ad, it would have to include two things:  "Must love trains" and "Must have no living relatives".   Chuck K.     ----- Original Message ----- From: jim heckard To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2011 7:58 AM Subject: [vintageHO] To much stuff ???? [11 Attachments]            My wife is getting on me that I have a little to much stuff in my vintage HO collection. She started saying that after I ask for a little more room. 30' x 20' just doesn't seem to do it anymore.   The freight cars are missing from the sets so I have some to run on the layout. She doesn't see that as creating space. Don't you think she should give me more space ??                                                       Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16243	From: Chris B	Date: 3/6/2011
Subject: Re: To much stuff ????

all good tips Chuck, but the main difference between this crackpot brainstorm and the retail installation is the front shelf panels are clear glass doors, unlike the opaque retail panels.  The glass would make the shelves in back visible, and even then you would only have a door in front of every other back panel, or even one in front for every two in back. And the shelves on the doors in front wouldn't have to line up with the shelves behind them, you could even leave the middle of the sliding door clear, and put them in the upper and lower third of the sliding glass door, so as you stood in front of a panel, all between you and the shelves in front of you is clear glass. If you never take them off the shelves, this has no usefulness, but if you are a vintage collector/operator, as many are, the more commonly run engines could be in readily available panels, and the more delicate or valuable items be behind one of the glass doors, where you can see it or touch it with one push of the panel, but don't have to worry about it being as vulnerable as an open shelf collection that's meant to be handled or run. What I want for my fine don't touch pieces is a nice antique bow front china cabinet, I was all set to buy one on Craig'slist, my wife was all happy and ready to go with me to get it, when she found out I wanted to put trains in it!  end of eager approval, and back to the open shelving..<g> Chris B.   From: "ckinzer@..." <ckinzer@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, March 6, 2011 1:16:08 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] To much stuff ????    I've seen at least one hobby shop with that scheme of sliding panels full of detail parts bags in front of a wall of more detail parts bags.  I think, to maximize storage, that there was only one empty space in the front panel (leading to a battle of wills of two or more are searching for parts I guess).  That works out OK to have more stuff to "search" for in that application, but seems counterproductive for a traditional "display" application to me.   The current storage could definitely be more dense.  There could be thinner shelving material and less intershelf spacing.  You only need about the space of a little more than a finger to get things on and off.  If you wanted to get insane about spacing, you could fashion some padded thin tongs and probably only have about a quarter inch air space above you talles item.   Also, you could forego the track and save vertical space that way.  To keep trucks aligned, you can have grooves in the wood spaced a flange width apart.  If doing this, the wood should be well sealed so that no moisture in the wood can harm any wheel treads (unlikely anyway, but possible maybe).   It also saves space to avoid having everything spaced for the worst case scenario.  You can have some taller shelves for tall things (like things with pantographs), and the rest for the standard height items.   Something I have thought of for myself (someday) is to have two rows on each shelf withe the upper row raised.  If the riser was a solid block in cross section, it would provide a lot of strength and allow that part of the shelf extending forward for the front row to be even thinner.  The rise only needs to be raised enough to show what care to see.  If you don't care if you see trucks, then it can be shorter.  If you want to see everything, then a little taller.  Either way the number of shelf thicknesses (which is wasted vertical display space) gets cut in half.  Standard 1x4 lumber is wide enough (3 1/2 inches) but just barely.  It's hard to see in your pictures if that is the case, but if so, your vertical spacing already seems enough that you could retrofit what you have.  Instant "doubling" of space with very little effect, if any, on depth.   For a little more depth, that idea could be extended to have three stairstepped levels, or four.   Another thing you see the tinplate guys do all the time is have more shelves below the fascia on the layout.  This also hides the storage space there.  If necessary, one or more can be made swing out if you want a lot of access to the storage there.  Or there can be a mix of shelves and either open spaces or the ubiquitous draperies.   I don't worry much about any difficulty of placing or removing things from shelves.  Unlike a display in a hobby shop, home displays can go for years (like some O tinplate I have on aluminum shelves with plexiglas) without being touched.   Chuck Kinzer    ----- Original Message ----- From: Chris B To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2011 8:52 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] To much stuff ????   Jim, I have the same issue, and keep adding levels to my layout to gain the main line run I need and want....I wish I had as good a funny reply as the ones you've gotten and will get, especially the offer to house your collection for you <G!>, but I will offer one serious crackpot brainstorm that might actually have some merit.  Assuming you want more wall space for collection display shelving, rather than more layout space...now fair warning, I've never seen this done for train displays, but it's gotten pretty common in hardware stores  and some other retail outlets I find myself in when my deep need for more tools seems to take over... Several hardware stores in town here have display shelving that's normal and typical, but they also have a second layer of display spade mounted on horizontal tracks in front of the traditional space.  wish I had a picture, hard to say in words, so here's an example....the aisle full of electrical components has a full set of shallow displays on both sides. then just about 10 inches in front, and starting about two feet up from the ground, resting on the cabinetwork that already sticks out the ten inches and is two feet high, they installed track rails on the cabinet tops that run the full length of the aisle, and are matched by overhead tracks mounted also ten inches out along the top valance over your head.   In this case, there are maybe 8 different section of electrical components displayed for sale on the back wall... Then there are three or four vertical panels that ride on these tracks, moving left and right as you push them with your hand, so that you can always see the items behind, either because they're exposed, or if you pushed one of the front panels out of they way. the items on the front panels are selected for being thinner and lighter, but they're always visible... lot a work for somebody, but maybe something as basic as cheap aluminum patio sliding glass door components could be mounted floor and overhead in front of your existing shelving, and then mount shallow shelves of home made RAILTRAX aluminum stock on both sides of the door frames, so that the door itself held a number of horizontal shelves from top to bottom, you could see thru the doors to see the shelves behind, and you could just slide a door sideways into an empty spot to be able to reach out and touch any of the engines on the back shelves... probably the lighter less precious items like cars and coaches would be a good choice for the front, and there'd have to be an easy way to secure them to the aluminum shelving, maybe little friction clips that grabbed axles --like those clips they sell for holding yard tool handles on your garage wall, but smaller... the patio door assemblies show up all the time here for free or cheap on craigs list, and aluminum drills and cuts and pop rivets together like butter, so maybe not so crazy an idea... what a great problem to have, TOO MUCH VINTAGE HO ROLLING STOCK AND ENGINES!!! Chris B. From: jim heckard <jimheck@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, March 6, 2011 10:58:44 AM Subject: [vintageHO] To much stuff ???? [11 Attachments]            My wife is getting on me that I have a little to much stuff in my vintage HO collection. She started saying that after I ask for a little more room. 30' x 20' just doesn't seem to do it anymore.   The freight cars are missing from the sets so I have some to run on the layout. She doesn't see that as creating space. Don't you think she should give me more space ??                                                       Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16244	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 3/6/2011
Subject: Re: To much stuff ????

Jim, Your mention of the addition of your wife's collection reminds me of another factor--the time required by some poor soul to dispose physically of all those really wonderful things in your house. Perhaps they will lock the place up until someone can take charge of its disposal. I suspect Chuck's implication is right: It will be easiest for all involved to simply put the whole works up for auction and "dump" it all at the same time. Depends on who's got the time and running the show. I guess I've been burned too many times on well-meaning promises.   Art W       In a message dated 3/6/2011 1:30:24 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, jimheck@... writes: Chuck,       In all honesty my wife is a saint and a dream. 44 years of marriage and I'd do it all over again. She is just worried that my want for more train room would mean she would lose some of her private sewing area. She has been involved in the sewing apparel industry for most of her life. Almost 45 years now. She quite the insurance business because of it. She in now in product development and quality control for a major apparel company ( still in the US ) although she deals with many countries. I'll never understand how she can work at a job all day and come home and almost do the same job as a hobby. Her 20' x 30 'section of the basement houses all her sewing machines, marrowing machine, zig zag machines. and materials. This is her "PRIVATE DOMAIN"    In other words "STAY OUT"   I have learned the major word is " COMPROMISE".                                                                   Jim H ----- Original Message ----- From: ckinzer@... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2011 11:19 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] To much stuff ????   Perhaps there is some lodge you could join that might have some area that could give you space and you could spend some time enjoying the trains there.  Or perhaps a local bar might enjoy some trains to dress up walls - and you could spend a lot of time there enjoying them.   Yes.  You should get more room.   Also, a lot of these trains are very, very hard to find.  But there are women everywhere.   If I ever placed a personal ad, it would have to include two things:  "Must love trains" and "Must have no living relatives".   Chuck K.     ----- Original Message ----- From: jim heckard To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2011 7:58 AM Subject: [vintageHO] To much stuff ???? [11 Attachments]            My wife is getting on me that I have a little to much stuff in my vintage HO collection. She started saying that after I ask for a little more room. 30' x 20' just doesn't seem to do it anymore.   The freight cars are missing from the sets so I have some to run on the layout. She doesn't see that as creating space. Don't you think she should give me more space ??                                                       Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16245	From: Chris B	Date: 3/6/2011
Subject: Re: To much stuff ????

Good estate sale firms are bonded professionals who do all that work for survivors, for a % of the sales revenue, and for that reason do all possible to maximize the results. Good inventory records, descriptions, photos, and estimated values are all they need to do their very best quickly and well, and Jim has all of those items well in hand. Chris B. From: luvprr@... Sender: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2011 13:42:47 -0500 (EST) To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> ReplyTo: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] To much stuff ????   Jim, Your mention of the addition of your wife's collection reminds me of another factor--the time required by some poor soul to dispose physically of all those really wonderful things in your house. Perhaps they will lock the place up until someone can take charge of its disposal. I suspect Chuck's implication is right: It will be easiest for all involved to simply put the whole works up for auction and "dump" it all at the same time. Depends on who's got the time and running the show. I guess I've been burned too many times on well-meaning promises.   Art W       In a message dated 3/6/2011 1:30:24 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, jimheck@... writes: Chuck,       In all honesty my wife is a saint and a dream. 44 years of marriage and I'd do it all over again. She is just worried that my want for more train room would mean she would lose some of her private sewing area. She has been involved in the sewing apparel industry for most of her life. Almost 45 years now. She quite the insurance business because of it. She in now in product development and quality control for a major apparel company ( still in the US ) although she deals with many countries. I'll never understand how she can work at a job all day and come home and almost do the same job as a hobby. Her 20' x 30 'section of the basement houses all her sewing machines, marrowing machine, zig zag machines. and materials. This is her "PRIVATE DOMAIN"    In other words "STAY OUT"   I have learned the major word is " COMPROMISE".                                                                   Jim H ----- Original Message ----- From: ckinzer@... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2011 11:19 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] To much stuff ????   Perhaps there is some lodge you could join that might have some area that could give you space and you could spend some time enjoying the trains there.  Or perhaps a local bar might enjoy some trains to dress up walls - and you could spend a lot of time there enjoying them.   Yes.  You should get more room.   Also, a lot of these trains are very, very hard to find.  But there are women everywhere.   If I ever placed a personal ad, it would have to include two things:  "Must love trains" and "Must have no living relatives".   Chuck K.     ----- Original Message ----- From: jim heckard To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2011 7:58 AM Subject: [vintageHO] To much stuff ???? [11 Attachments]            My wife is getting on me that I have a little to much stuff in my vintage HO collection. She started saying that after I ask for a little more room. 30' x 20' just doesn't seem to do it anymore.   The freight cars are missing from the sets so I have some to run on the layout. She doesn't see that as creating space. Don't you think she should give me more space ??                                                       Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16246	From: Glenn	Date: 3/6/2011
Subject: Re: To much stuff ????

:I built a building that size a few years ago—and I still have to keep moving thing around to get the layout built—Lots of stuff is going under the layout as I get it built.  gj   From: herb1013@... Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2011 8:29 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] To much stuff ????   I have a 30 foot by 50 foot  3 story barn that you could store your stuff in. The barn is almost empty but for 2 model A frames. Just kidding but it would make for a great train layout. To bad fixed incomes don’t allow for buying more trains.   Herb     Bionic Herb,Br 38 NALC,Gods Knob, Milk Can Corners

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16247	From: CinderCrusher	Date: 3/6/2011
Subject: Re: To much stuff ????

Jim, One small suggestion which will gain you a little space. I saw this done by a Lionel collector. For freight cars, why not build cubbyhole shelves with each car placed end-wise into the shelf. You gain the ability to store a lot more cars with very little invasion into the room space. Locomotives and favorite pieces could continue to be placed on normal shelving. You won't be able to view the freight cars the way you did before, but pulling one out by the coupler allows for a private viewing. Bill DeFoe --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> wrote: > > Chuck, > > In all honesty my wife is a saint and a dream. 44 years of marriage and I'd do it all over again. She is just worried that my want for more train room would mean she would lose some of her private sewing area. She has been involved in the sewing apparel industry for most of her life. Almost 45 years now. She quite the insurance business because of it. She in now in product development and quality control for a major apparel company ( still in the US ) although she deals with many countries. I'll never understand how she can work at a job all day and come home and almost do the same job as a hobby. Her 20' x 30 'section of the basement houses all her sewing machines, marrowing machine, zig zag machines. and materials. This is her "PRIVATE DOMAIN" In other words "STAY OUT" I have learned the major word is " COMPROMISE". > > Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16248	From: jim heckard	Date: 3/6/2011
Subject: Re: To much stuff ????

Bill,               Good suggestion except for one problem. I never collected freight cars unless they happened to be part of a set and that was for two reasons. First to many freight cars out there to collect and second I limited my collection to steam engines, diesel engines and passenger cars for space reasons never thinking I would get to the number of items I have reached. With space running out I am now even limiting what passenger cars I will keep or add to the collection.                                           Jim H ----- Original Message ----- From: CinderCrusher To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2011 5:46 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: To much stuff ????   Jim, One small suggestion which will gain you a little space. I saw this done by a Lionel collector. For freight cars, why not build cubbyhole shelves with each car placed end-wise into the shelf. You gain the ability to store a lot more cars with very little invasion into the room space. Locomotives and favorite pieces could continue to be placed on normal shelving. You won't be able to view the freight cars the way you did before, but pulling one out by the coupler allows for a private viewing. Bill DeFoe --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> wrote: > > Chuck, > > In all honesty my wife is a saint and a dream. 44 years of marriage and I'd do it all over again. She is just worried that my want for more train room would mean she would lose some of her private sewing area. She has been involved in the sewing apparel industry for most of her life. Almost 45 years now. She quite the insurance business because of it. She in now in product development and quality control for a major apparel company ( still in the US ) although she deals with many countries. I'll never understand how she can work at a job all day and come home and almost do the same job as a hobby. Her 20' x 30 'section of the basement houses all her sewing machines, marrowing machine, zig zag machines. and materials. This is her "PRIVATE DOMAIN" In other words "STAY OUT" I have learned the major word is " COMPROMISE". > > Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16249	From: CinderCrusher	Date: 3/6/2011
Subject: Re: To much stuff ????

Jim, I understand. Sorry I can't think of another solution. Bill DeFoe --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> wrote: > > Bill, > > Good suggestion except for one problem. I never collected freight cars

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16250	From: jim heckard	Date: 3/6/2011
Subject: Re: To much stuff ????

Bill,      My wife gave me the solution. Stop buying more trains.                                                Jim H ----- Original Message ----- From: CinderCrusher To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2011 6:24 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: To much stuff ????   Jim, I understand. Sorry I can't think of another solution. Bill DeFoe --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> wrote: > > Bill, > > Good suggestion except for one problem. I never collected freight cars

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16251	From: bongiovanni12001	Date: 3/6/2011
Subject: Unpleasant discussion/was Too Much Stuff??

I guess I should have expected this discussion. I've given a clinic to the two local NMRA Divisions on Estate Planning for Model Railroaders. I posted the handout on their webpages and on the brass lists that I'm on. If I can find the handout on one of these d*gg*ne computers I'll post it here. But you all, especially Jim, Bill, and Chuck, have hit on the major points. Some of your stuff is worth something. Some of your stuff is historical, even if the dollar value isn't much. Some of your stuff (I'm guessing)is junque. Unless your survivors hire "pros", they probably have no clue which is which. The Cliff Notes version of the clinic is: Inventory your stuff. (Side benefits: you may want to have a talk with your insurance man; you may find stuff you forgot you had; and you might think twice before buying more). To the inventory, add some suggestions about who to call, what might be best given to a charity (especially a 501(c)(3)org like the NMRA or a historical society)so a survivor can get a tax deduction. Put the inventory where your probable survivors can find it. Have the conversation. And discuss time versus money. Warn your probable survivor that one week after you go to that Motor Barn in the Sky one of your good buddies is going to come by and offer her 5% of the value of what's in your basement "to get those silly trains out of your way". Does your wife want to sell the stuff rapidly, does she want a long drawn out relationship with eBay or ???, or does she want to do train shows for three years (I've seen all of these, and I'll bet most of you have too). In the conversation make sure that they understand that some of those pieces have major sentimental value to you, and you wouldn't take a thousand dollars for them, but that on the open market they're a $20 item. Remember that unless you're kinda warped, IMHO, you don't want your wife taking $20 for that rare Varney piece that she could have had $500 for, and you don't want her suffering the snickers from your "friends" when she asks for $200 for that $3 piece of Tyco. Here endeth the lesson, except for the disclaimer: I am not seeking estate work, I don't do wills, and I don't do appraisals because I'm still buying and there's a conflict of interest there (waivable if anybody out there has an NJCB VGN USD to get rid of LOL). Frank Bongiovanni, Atty.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16252	From: Chris B	Date: 3/6/2011
Subject: Re: Unpleasant discussion/was Too Much Stuff??

Just one question: any problem with using a reputable estate sale service working on a percentage of the sale total, using the collector's inventory information and only selling that which is designated to be sold, and even if no one else is available, having them pack up and ship all the rest that are inheritance and donation pieces ? Any downside? Assuming a substantial collection, good records, a reputable firm, and the simple strategy that it's worth paying a reasonable percentage of the best market value and having few worries -----compared to doing plenty of work and maybe getting 100% of a lesser total ----because whoever sells the items is not a paid professional who benefits more if each item sells for the maximum? Seems like an appropriate solution to maximizing return, minimizing hassles and 5% "buddies" and sparing survivors work and worries...any issues with estate sale firms we shoul know about? Chris B. From: "bongiovanni12001" <bongiovanni1@...> Sender: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2011 01:54:51 -0000 To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> ReplyTo: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Unpleasant discussion/was Too Much Stuff??   I guess I should have expected this discussion. I've given a clinic to the two local NMRA Divisions on Estate Planning for Model Railroaders. I posted the handout on their webpages and on the brass lists that I'm on. If I can find the handout on one of these d*gg*ne computers I'll post it here. But you all, especially Jim, Bill, and Chuck, have hit on the major points. Some of your stuff is worth something. Some of your stuff is historical, even if the dollar value isn't much. Some of your stuff (I'm guessing)is junque. Unless your survivors hire "pros", they probably have no clue which is which. The Cliff Notes version of the clinic is: Inventory your stuff. (Side benefits: you may want to have a talk with your insurance man; you may find stuff you forgot you had; and you might think twice before buying more). To the inventory, add some suggestions about who to call, what might be best given to a charity (especially a 501(c)(3)org like the NMRA or a historical society)so a survivor can get a tax deduction. Put the inventory where your probable survivors can find it. Have the conversation. And discuss time versus money. Warn your probable survivor that one week after you go to that Motor Barn in the Sky one of your good buddies is going to come by and offer her 5% of the value of what's in your basement "to get those silly trains out of your way". Does your wife want to sell the stuff rapidly, does she want a long drawn out relationship with eBay or ???, or does she want to do train shows for three years (I've seen all of these, and I'll bet most of you have too). In the conversation make sure that they understand that some of those pieces have major sentimental value to you, and you wouldn't take a thousand dollars for them, but that on the open market they're a $20 item. Remember that unless you're kinda warped, IMHO, you don't want your wife taking $20 for that rare Varney piece that she could have had $500 for, and you don't want her suffering the snickers from your "friends" when she asks for $200 for that $3 piece of Tyco. Here endeth the lesson, except for the disclaimer: I am not seeking estate work, I don't do wills, and I don't do appraisals because I'm still buying and there's a conflict of interest there (waivable if anybody out there has an NJCB VGN USD to get rid of LOL). Frank Bongiovanni, Atty.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16253	From: Askerberg	Date: 3/6/2011
Subject: Re: Digest Number 2225

Thanks, Steve.  The label is now fixed, I have stripped the NW2 now for a repaint. Al 2b. Re: Good day at the show Posted by: "Stephen Neubaum" computersystemrebuild@...   railwaymodeler Sat Mar 5, 2011 7:41 pm (PST) Your photo of the K-4 is labeled as an H-9. Otherwise, good finds! -Steve Neubaum --- On Sat, 3/5/11, Askerberg <aiberg@comcast. net> wrote: From: Askerberg <aiberg@comcast. net> Subject: [vintageHO] Good day at the show To: vintageHO@yahoogrou ps.com Date: Saturday, March 5, 2011, 7:55 PM   I netted a Varney NW2 today at a show and also got a Bowser K4. I have posted both in the photos under AL2s stuff. Al Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post Messages in this topic (2) Recent Activity  2 New Members  9 New Photos Visit Your Group Give Back Yahoo! for Good Get inspired by a good cause. Y! Toolbar Get it Free! easy 1-click access to your groups. Yahoo! Groups Start a group in 3 easy steps. Connect with others. Need to Reply? Click one of the "Reply" links to respond to a specific message in the Daily Digest. Create New Topic | Visit Your Group on the Web Messages | Files | Photos | Links | Database | Polls | Members | Calendar Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Individual | Switch format to Traditional Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16254	From: Model RailRoad	Date: 3/7/2011
Subject: Re: Unpleasant discussion/was Too Much Stuff??

Three short observations: 1) Our collectibles have certain [often elevated] value NOW because there are others who are interested in collecting them. Why? Because of nostalgia for items they once had or they never could have. This aspect of their value will be declining as there are fewer of us left in those two categories. Remember Avon bottles!!! 2) The NMRA is establishing a museum of model railroading ["Howell Day Museum"] with emphasis on historic pieces related to the development of the hobby. The point was raised about charitable donations, this would be one possible consideration for especially significant items. 3) Frequently, as a manufacturer, we recieve requests for donations for establishing working layouts at schools where creative teachers use trains to teach history or manual/artistic skills; at facilities I will lump into "nursing home" catch all title and for organizations like the Boys and Girls Club or church youth programs. Granted,the historical aspect may not be valued but (remember my point #1) the trains may be. Local and state historical museums are interested in items related to local history (eg. a billboard reefer of local product) or kits manufactured locally. We recently assisted the local historical museum with Erie models as they rebuilt the long gone Huntington (In) Erie yards in an operating HO layout. Two or three local modellers also donated equipment for this attraction that relates local history--while exposing excited youngsters to the hobby. In the 45 years I've been in this business I have learned ("too late") of many nice collections (trains and other things too) landing in the dumnpster by unappreciative "quick cleanout relatives." Having lost our own parents, Bea and I are quite familiar with that mindset too. Maybe the bottom line should be: Did you buy those trains to enjoy or as an investment? There are usually far better investments. Merle Rice

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16255	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 3/7/2011
Subject: Re: Unpleasant discussion/was Too Much Stuff??

Hi All,   I have paid some attention to this discussion and thought I might chime in. I am young here as compared to most, being that I am only 40 and far from retirement and hopefully ever farther from the great beyond.   For me, collecting has been acquiring those items I admired as a kid and could no have and as of late...never knew existed.   In addition, as a retirement investment I do not expect this hobby to be able to pay off. My kids and wife would not have nearly the interest in dealing with selling off my collection as I would. I intend to make it as easy and lucrative as I can for them by keeping a detailed list of the items descriptions and current value, but this is tough to do completely. If you want to leave something for your kids.. don't leave them the trains unless they really want them. Find good homes for them yourself as they won't bother and why should they?  Eventually I plan to sell off most of mine while the market is still good, keeping only the really rare ones for myself.   Currently, as many here already know, I buy and sell all the time on eBay. I do it to fund the enhancement of my collection and pay for the restoration of my Mustangs and it seems to be working out fine. However, I do not expect this to always be the case in the future.  For now..its working though as I have completely paid for a full rotisserie restoration of my 1969 Mustang this way. again..another bad investment..   My wife keeps threatening to sell my entire collection for a Buy-It-Now of $1 just to be rid of them...and I believe her. She is not going to invest the time in trying to sell them off one at a time, no matter what the profit. It is not what she is interested in.   Sean

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16256	From: jim heckard	Date: 3/7/2011
Subject: Re: Unpleasant discussion/was Too Much Stuff??

Hi Merle,          I would like the chance to offer my thoughts about" vintage HO collecting" only as to how popular it is and in my mind will continue to be. Please bear with me as I state my views.           Lets forget AVON bottles . Lets think about how many years and how many people / collectors go from train show to train show to still search out vintage trains. Think mainly about Lionel O Gauge and American Flyer S gauge. It doesn't seem to me that the numbers are declining and I'm talking the collecting part. And unlike years ago where train shows and list sent by collectors were how you found items the electronic age has opened things up to more people. I'm not just talking eBay and specific Yahoo groups either. There is an  entire network of vintage train collectors out there and that includes HO which is much newer then other collectable gauges. And being newer the collectable value, in my opinion, has not reached a peak. O gauge and S gauge have almost set prices for any item , even cheap items based on what the piece is and the condition. HO is starting to get there.       Point 2   I ask these questions for clarification.  The NMRA is establishing a museum of model railroading called the  " Howell Day Museum ". Since I don't know is HO included in that and while I know Howell Day was in HO will it be only his items included ?  ( Why not the Gordon Varney, Irv Athearn, John English, Nathan Polk, Bob Lindsay, Lew English, etc.. museum ? ) Emphasis on historic pieces. Who will make that decision ? I think I know a LOT of vintage HO pieces related to the development of the hobby. Oh then we have " charitable donations " . If the value of vintage HO will go down and no body will be interested why does the museum want donations ? Who decides what the significant pieces are ? ( NMRA. Model Railroader, Railroad Model Craftsman ? )  While most of the big names in HO are up in age or have passed on there are still many out there that know HO inside and out. Check names of the supporting cast  for say the Greenberg books as a start. Names of people who supplied their collection / pictures and information used. Will these very knowledgeable people be part of the process ?        I am in HO since 1958. I was brought into the collecting end by a number of people many now gone but I still find others who are finding out about collecting vintage HO and have contact with many others who are avid vintage HO collectors.. I can tell you one way or the other my collection will not be thrown in the dumpster or sold unwittingly for a fraction of their worth. But they definitely will not be donated to special interest museums like the NMRA or groups like them that say no value to HO but give us your collection as a charitable donation ( FREE ).       I am not trying to say your thoughts are wrong and this is not to start anything  but just that I feel a little different. I find it odd that my insurance company has me take out a special fire and theft policy that has to be fully documented and updated yearly if the collection has no value. They don't just accept what I feel is the value.        My trains have always been for my enjoyment. Maybe not as good an investment as IBM stock but still worthwhile. I think time will prove that                                               Jim H     ----- Original Message ----- From: Model RailRoad To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 07, 2011 9:36 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Unpleasant discussion/was Too Much Stuff??   Three short observations: 1) Our collectibles have certain [often elevated] value NOW because there are others who are interested in collecting them. Why? Because of nostalgia for items they once had or they never could have. This aspect of their value will be declining as there are fewer of us left in those two categories. Remember Avon bottles!!! 2) The NMRA is establishing a museum of model railroading ["Howell Day Museum"] with emphasis on historic pieces related to the development of the hobby. The point was raised about charitable donations, this would be one possible consideration for especially significant items. 3) Frequently, as a manufacturer, we recieve requests for donations for establishing working layouts at schools where creative teachers use trains to teach history or manual/artistic skills; at facilities I will lump into "nursing home" catch all title and for organizations like the Boys and Girls Club or church youth programs. Granted,the historical aspect may not be valued but (remember my point #1) the trains may be. Local and state historical museums are interested in items related to local history (eg. a billboard reefer of local product) or kits manufactured locally. We recently assisted the local historical museum with Erie models as they rebuilt the long gone Huntington (In) Erie yards in an operating HO layout. Two or three local modellers also donated equipment for this attraction that relates local history--while exposing excited youngsters to the hobby. In the 45 years I've been in this business I have learned ("too late") of many nice collections (trains and other things too) landing in the dumnpster by unappreciative "quick cleanout relatives." Having lost our own parents, Bea and I are quite familiar with that mindset too. Maybe the bottom line should be: Did you buy those trains to enjoy or as an investment? There are usually far better investments. Merle Rice

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16257	From: Chris B	Date: 3/7/2011
Subject: Re: Unpleasant discussion/was Too Much Stuff??

My two cents, FWIW. Std, O ga, and S ga collectors have valued and bought trains for decadrs that were made as toys by several prominent mfgrs, including Lionel, Bing, Ives, Dorfan, Gilbert, Marx, Kusan, Marklin, etc. They collect based on the history of that mfgr, not on the history of that gauge. That hobby has a very direct connection to the antique/vintage toy collecting hobby, which has also been estabished for almost 100 years. There has never been an equivalent-level established hobby of collecting vintage scale model locomotives of any gauge, with the sole exception of live steam locomotive models. There's no established major collector interest in vintage scale locomotives in O or S ga.; despite their sharing a ga. with Lionel and AF. Lobaugh O ga. Steam loco models are an example of this, so are engines by the firm that produce 3/16" scale engine before adoption by Gilbert of that scale. There has developed in recent years a growing commerce in vintage plastic model kits of tanks, planes, etc., And even vintage slotcars from the same era are avidly collected, with mint rare models going on eBay for hundred$. But small mfgr or craftsman produced scale models made for young adults or men have never seemed to raise the level of interest that similar mass manufactured semi-scale or toylike items sold to children or young men have achieved. I think the toy connection may be key, ---if you are 40+ and have surplus cash and nostalgia, you may be ready to drop real cash on a train or toy like you got for xmas when you were ten. --- If you're 40+ and have surplus cash and like model railroading, there's a whole new universe of RTR DCC sound-equipped prototypically accurate engines out there to buy, in G, O, On30, S, HO, N, and Z! --now if you're 40+ and you're reading this, we know where your money goes, but if the market for vintage HO wasn't so obviously small compared to the toy train and modern model railroader marketplace, there wouldn't even be a reason for having this thread. We like vintage HO because we like it. That's probably the only good reason to collect it, because if we're buying old model trains to appreciate and become good investments and valuable commodities, we should be buying old toy trains instead. My 2 cents, YMMV, Chris B. From: "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> Sender: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 11:44:31 -0500 To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> ReplyTo: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Unpleasant discussion/was Too Much Stuff??   Hi Merle,          I would like the chance to offer my thoughts about" vintage HO collecting" only as to how popular it is and in my mind will continue to be. Please bear with me as I state my views.           Lets forget AVON bottles . Lets think about how many years and how many people / collectors go from train show to train show to still search out vintage trains. Think mainly about Lionel O Gauge and American Flyer S gauge. It doesn't seem to me that the numbers are declining and I'm talking the collecting part. And unlike years ago where train shows and list sent by collectors were how you found items the electronic age has opened things up to more people. I'm not just talking eBay and specific Yahoo groups either. There is an  entire network of vintage train collectors out there and that includes HO which is much newer then other collectable gauges. And being newer the collectable value, in my opinion, has not reached a peak. O gauge and S gauge have almost set prices for any item , even cheap items based on what the piece is and the condition. HO is starting to get there.       Point 2   I ask these questions for clarification.  The NMRA is establishing a museum of model railroading called the  " Howell Day Museum ". Since I don't know is HO included in that and while I know Howell Day was in HO will it be only his items included ?  ( Why not the Gordon Varney, Irv Athearn, John English, Nathan Polk, Bob Lindsay, Lew English, etc.. museum ? ) Emphasis on historic pieces. Who will make that decision ? I think I know a LOT of vintage HO pieces related to the development of the hobby. Oh then we have " charitable donations " . If the value of vintage HO will go down and no body will be interested why does the museum want donations ? Who decides what the significant pieces are ? ( NMRA. Model Railroader, Railroad Model Craftsman ? )  While most of the big names in HO are up in age or have passed on there are still many out there that know HO inside and out. Check names of the supporting cast  for say the Greenberg books as a start. Names of people who supplied their collection / pictures and information used. Will these very knowledgeable people be part of the process ?        I am in HO since 1958. I was brought into the collecting end by a number of people many now gone but I still find others who are finding out about collecting vintage HO and have contact with many others who are avid vintage HO collectors.. I can tell you one way or the other my collection will not be thrown in the dumpster or sold unwittingly for a fraction of their worth. But they definitely will not be donated to special interest museums like the NMRA or groups like them that say no value to HO but give us your collection as a charitable donation ( FREE ).       I am not trying to say your thoughts are wrong and this is not to start anything  but just that I feel a little different. I find it odd that my insurance company has me take out a special fire and theft policy that has to be fully documented and updated yearly if the collection has no value. They don't just accept what I feel is the value.        My trains have always been for my enjoyment. Maybe not as good an investment as IBM stock but still worthwhile. I think time will prove that                                               Jim H     ----- Original Message ----- From: Model RailRoad To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 07, 2011 9:36 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Unpleasant discussion/was Too Much Stuff??   Three short observations: 1) Our collectibles have certain [often elevated] value NOW because there are others who are interested in collecting them. Why? Because of nostalgia for items they once had or they never could have. This aspect of their value will be declining as there are fewer of us left in those two categories. Remember Avon bottles!!! 2) The NMRA is establishing a museum of model railroading ["Howell Day Museum"] with emphasis on historic pieces related to the development of the hobby. The point was raised about charitable donations, this would be one possible consideration for especially significant items. 3) Frequently, as a manufacturer, we recieve requests for donations for establishing working layouts at schools where creative teachers use trains to teach history or manual/artistic skills; at facilities I will lump into "nursing home" catch all title and for organizations like the Boys and Girls Club or church youth programs. Granted,the historical aspect may not be valued but (remember my point #1) the trains may be. Local and state historical museums are interested in items related to local history (eg. a billboard reefer of local product) or kits manufactured locally. We recently assisted the local historical museum with Erie models as they rebuilt the long gone Huntington (In) Erie yards in an operating HO layout. Two or three local modellers also donated equipment for this attraction that relates local history--while exposing excited youngsters to the hobby. In the 45 years I've been in this business I have learned ("too late") of many nice collections (trains and other things too) landing in the dumnpster by unappreciative "quick cleanout relatives." Having lost our own parents, Bea and I are quite familiar with that mindset too. Maybe the bottom line should be: Did you buy those trains to enjoy or as an investment? There are usually far better investments. Merle Rice

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16258	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 3/7/2011
Subject: Re: Unpleasant discussion/was Too Much Stuff??

Jim, One quick comment, and I'll be quiet: Before you dismiss "giving" your collection, by will, to something like NMRA Howell Day Museum, you should discuss the matter with your wife and children and also your attorney and your tax accountant. I don't have any idea how large your personal estate may be, counting real estate, insurance, stocks bonds, bank accounts, trains and other collectibles,  etc., but maybe an estate tax deduction for a charitable donation, especially if the value has been well documented as you state so emphatically it has, will be easy and useful to your heirs. Take a look at this NMRA webpage, or just search for Howell Day Museum to learn more about it and its objectives, if you want to, of course: www.nmra.org/membership/prescar/prespdf/2009_06Pres.pdf, On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 12:44 PM, jim heckard <jimheck@...> wrote:   Hi Merle,          I would like the chance to offer my thoughts about" vintage HO collecting" only as to how popular it is and in my mind will continue to be. Please bear with me as I state my views.           Lets forget AVON bottles . Lets think about how many years and how many people / collectors go from train show to train show to still search out vintage trains. Think mainly about Lionel O Gauge and American Flyer S gauge. It doesn't seem to me that the numbers are declining and I'm talking the collecting part. And unlike years ago where train shows and list sent by collectors were how you found items the electronic age has opened things up to more people. I'm not just talking eBay and specific Yahoo groups either. There is an  entire network of vintage train collectors out there and that includes HO which is much newer then other collectable gauges. And being newer the collectable value, in my opinion, has not reached a peak. O gauge and S gauge have almost set prices for any item , even cheap items based on what the piece is and the condition. HO is starting to get there.       Point 2   I ask these questions for clarification.  The NMRA is establishing a museum of model railroading called the  " Howell Day Museum ". Since I don't know is HO included in that and while I know Howell Day was in HO will it be only his items included ?  ( Why not the Gordon Varney, Irv Athearn, John English, Nathan Polk, Bob Lindsay, Lew English, etc.. museum ? ) Emphasis on historic pieces. Who will make that decision ? I think I know a LOT of vintage HO pieces related to the development of the hobby. Oh then we have " charitable donations " . If the value of vintage HO will go down and no body will be interested why does the museum want donations ? Who decides what the significant pieces are ? ( NMRA. Model Railroader, Railroad Model Craftsman ? )  While most of the big names in HO are up in age or have passed on there are still many out there that know HO inside and out. Check names of the supporting cast  for say the Greenberg books as a start. Names of people who supplied their collection / pictures and information used. Will these very knowledgeable people be part of the process ?        I am in HO since 1958. I was brought into the collecting end by a number of people many now gone but I still find others who are finding out about collecting vintage HO and have contact with many others who are avid vintage HO collectors.. I can tell you one way or the other my collection will not be thrown in the dumpster or sold unwittingly for a fraction of their worth. But they definitely will not be donated to special interest museums like the NMRA or groups like them that say no value to HO but give us your collection as a charitable donation ( FREE ).       I am not trying to say your thoughts are wrong and this is not to start anything  but just that I feel a little different. I find it odd that my insurance company has me take out a special fire and theft policy that has to be fully documented and updated yearly if the collection has no value. They don't just accept what I feel is the value.        My trains have always been for my enjoyment. Maybe not as good an investment as IBM stock but still worthwhile. I think time will prove that                                               Jim H     ----- Original Message ----- From: Model RailRoad To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 07, 2011 9:36 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Unpleasant discussion/was Too Much Stuff??   Three short observations: 1) Our collectibles have certain [often elevated] value NOW because there are others who are interested in collecting them. Why? Because of nostalgia for items they once had or they never could have. This aspect of their value will be declining as there are fewer of us left in those two categories. Remember Avon bottles!!! 2) The NMRA is establishing a museum of model railroading ["Howell Day Museum"] with emphasis on historic pieces related to the development of the hobby. The point was raised about charitable donations, this would be one possible consideration for especially significant items. 3) Frequently, as a manufacturer, we recieve requests for donations for establishing working layouts at schools where creative teachers use trains to teach history or manual/artistic skills; at facilities I will lump into "nursing home" catch all title and for organizations like the Boys and Girls Club or church youth programs. Granted,the historical aspect may not be valued but (remember my point #1) the trains may be. Local and state historical museums are interested in items related to local history (eg. a billboard reefer of local product) or kits manufactured locally. We recently assisted the local historical museum with Erie models as they rebuilt the long gone Huntington (In) Erie yards in an operating HO layout. Two or three local modellers also donated equipment for this attraction that relates local history--while exposing excited youngsters to the hobby. In the 45 years I've been in this business I have learned ("too late") of many nice collections (trains and other things too) landing in the dumnpster by unappreciative "quick cleanout relatives." Having lost our own parents, Bea and I are quite familiar with that mindset too. Maybe the bottom line should be: Did you buy those trains to enjoy or as an investment? There are usually far better investments. Merle Rice -- Regards, Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16259	From: Glenn	Date: 3/7/2011
Subject: Re: Unpleasant discussion/was Too Much Stuff??

I think that one reason scale stuff doesn’t have as wide a collector market is that theare is such a variable in condition---unless you hjave a virgin kit,  everything is dependent on the skills of the assembler—or what modifications were made during assembly.  Example—my samples of the Mantua Reading Pacific and consolidation were built up by Richard Stokes—who had some of his work featured in MR during WWII.  Richard favored the SP, and this was reflected in his models—the Pacific had a Vanderbilt tender, Train Indicators (“Bugboards” to the SP crews)and other western features.  The Consol has the stock tender modified with an oil bunker. Definitely  not complete examples of how Mantua intended.  Quality of assembly can also be a factor.  gj     From: Chris B Sent: Monday, March 07, 2011 10:32 AM To: Vint Ho Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Unpleasant discussion/was Too Much Stuff??   My two cents, FWIW. Std, O ga, and S ga collectors have valued and bought trains for decadrs that were made as toys by several prominent mfgrs, including Lionel, Bing, Ives, Dorfan, Gilbert, Marx, Kusan, Marklin, etc. They collect based on the history of that mfgr, not on the history of that gauge. That hobby has a very direct connection to the antique/vintage toy collecting hobby, which has also been estabished for almost 100 years. There has never been an equivalent-level established hobby of collecting vintage scale model locomotives of any gauge, with the sole exception of live steam locomotive models. There's no established major collector interest in vintage scale locomotives in O or S ga.; despite their sharing a ga. with Lionel and AF. Lobaugh O ga. Steam loco models are an example of this, so are engines by the firm that produce 3/16" scale engine before adoption by Gilbert of that scale. There has developed in recent years a growing commerce in vintage plastic model kits of tanks, planes, etc., And even vintage slotcars from the same era are avidly collected, with mint rare models going on eBay for hundred$. But small mfgr or craftsman produced scale models made for young adults or men have never seemed to raise the level of interest that similar mass manufactured semi-scale or toylike items sold to children or young men have achieved. I think the toy connection may be key, ---if you are 40+ and have surplus cash and nostalgia, you may be ready to drop real cash on a train or toy like you got for xmas when you were ten. --- If you're 40+ and have surplus cash and like model railroading, there's a whole new universe of RTR DCC sound-equipped prototypically accurate engines out there to buy, in G, O, On30, S, HO, N, and Z! --now if you're 40+ and you're reading this, we know where your money goes, but if the market for vintage HO wasn't so obviously small compared to the toy train and modern model railroader marketplace, there wouldn't even be a reason for having this thread. We like vintage HO because we like it. That's probably the only good reason to collect it, because if we're buying old model trains to appreciate and become good investments and valuable commodities, we should be buying old toy trains instead. My 2 cents, YMMV, Chris B. From: "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> Sender: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 11:44:31 -0500 To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> ReplyTo: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Unpleasant discussion/was Too Much Stuff??     Hi Merle,          I would like the chance to offer my thoughts about" vintage HO collecting" only as to how popular it is and in my mind will continue to be. Please bear with me as I state my views.          Lets forget AVON bottles . Lets think about how many years and how many people / collectors go from train show to train show to still search out vintage trains. Think mainly about Lionel O Gauge and American Flyer S gauge. It doesn't seem to me that the numbers are declining and I'm talking the collecting part. And unlike years ago where train shows and list sent by collectors were how you found items the electronic age has opened things up to more people. I'm not just talking eBay and specific Yahoo groups either. There is an  entire network of vintage train collectors out there and that includes HO which is much newer then other collectable gauges. And being newer the collectable value, in my opinion, has not reached a peak. O gauge and S gauge have almost set prices for any item , even cheap items based on what the piece is and the condition. HO is starting to get there.       Point 2   I ask these questions for clarification.  The NMRA is establishing a museum of model railroading called the  " Howell Day Museum ". Since I don't know is HO included in that and while I know Howell Day was in HO will it be only his items included ?  ( Why not the Gordon Varney, Irv Athearn, John English, Nathan Polk, Bob Lindsay, Lew English, etc.. museum ? ) Emphasis on historic pieces. Who will make that decision ? I think I know a LOT of vintage HO pieces related to the development of the hobby. Oh then we have " charitable donations " . If the value of vintage HO will go down and no body will be interested why does the museum want donations ? Who decides what the significant pieces are ? ( NMRA. Model Railroader, Railroad Model Craftsman ? )  While most of the big names in HO are up in age or have passed on there are still many out there that know HO inside and out. Check names of the supporting cast  for say the Greenberg books as a start. Names of people who supplied their collection / pictures and information used. Will these very knowledgeable people be part of the process ?        I am in HO since 1958. I was brought into the collecting end by a number of people many now gone but I still find others who are finding out about collecting vintage HO and have contact with many others who are avid vintage HO collectors.. I can tell you one way or the other my collection will not be thrown in the dumpster or sold unwittingly for a fraction of their worth. But they definitely will not be donated to special interest museums like the NMRA or groups like them that say no value to HO but give us your collection as a charitable donation ( FREE ).       I am not trying to say your thoughts are wrong and this is not to start anything  but just that I feel a little different. I find it odd that my insurance company has me take out a special fire and theft policy that has to be fully documented and updated yearly if the collection has no value. They don't just accept what I feel is the value.        My trains have always been for my enjoyment. Maybe not as good an investment as IBM stock but still worthwhile. I think time will prove that                                               Jim H     ----- Original Message ----- From: Model RailRoad To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 07, 2011 9:36 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Unpleasant discussion/was Too Much Stuff??     Three short observations: 1) Our collectibles have certain [often elevated] value NOW because there are others who are interested in collecting them. Why? Because of nostalgia for items they once had or they never could have. This aspect of their value will be declining as there are fewer of us left in those two categories. Remember Avon bottles!!! 2) The NMRA is establishing a museum of model railroading ["Howell Day Museum"] with emphasis on historic pieces related to the development of the hobby. The point was raised about charitable donations, this would be one possible consideration for especially significant items. 3) Frequently, as a manufacturer, we recieve requests for donations for establishing working layouts at schools where creative teachers use trains to teach history or manual/artistic skills; at facilities I will lump into "nursing home" catch all title and for organizations like the Boys and Girls Club or church youth programs. Granted,the historical aspect may not be valued but (remember my point #1) the trains may be. Local and state historical museums are interested in items related to local history (eg. a billboard reefer of local product) or kits manufactured locally. We recently assisted the local historical museum with Erie models as they rebuilt the long gone Huntington (In) Erie yards in an operating HO layout. Two or three local modellers also donated equipment for this attraction that relates local history--while exposing excited youngsters to the hobby. In the 45 years I've been in this business I have learned ("too late") of many nice collections (trains and other things too) landing in the dumnpster by unappreciative "quick cleanout relatives." Having lost our own parents, Bea and I are quite familiar with that mindset too. Maybe the bottom line should be: Did you buy those trains to enjoy or as an investment? There are usually far better investments. Merle Rice

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16260	From: Glenn	Date: 3/7/2011
Subject: Re: Unpleasant discussion/was Too Much Stuff??

the museum will be named for Mr. Day since he provided the founding endowment.  I am directing that quite a bit of my older HO, OO, and O go to the Howell Day museum, with the understanding that they might well sell or trade materials   that are redundant.   I was considering giving the California portion of my library to the local library, but since they have a very-cheap book sale each year I think I would add some sort of condition that any sales be conducted through an  auction  system so that fair values are received.  Colorado RR Museum’s annual mail auction comes to mind.  gj   From: Walter Bayer II Sent: Monday, March 07, 2011 10:49 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Unpleasant discussion/was Too Much Stuff??   Jim, One quick comment, and I'll be quiet: Before you dismiss "giving" your collection, by will, to something like NMRA Howell Day Museum, you should discuss the matter with your wife and children and also your attorney and your tax accountant. I don't have any idea how large your personal estate may be, counting real estate, insurance, stocks bonds, bank accounts, trains and other collectibles,  etc., but maybe an estate tax deduction for a charitable donation, especially if the value has been well documented as you state so emphatically it has, will be easy and useful to your heirs. Take a look at this NMRA webpage, or just search for Howell Day Museum to learn more about it and its objectives, if you want to, of course: www.nmra.org/membership/prescar/prespdf/2009_06Pres.pdf, On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 12:44 PM, jim heckard <jimheck@...> wrote:   Hi Merle,          I would like the chance to offer my thoughts about" vintage HO collecting" only as to how popular it is and in my mind will continue to be. Please bear with me as I state my views.          Lets forget AVON bottles . Lets think about how many years and how many people / collectors go from train show to train show to still search out vintage trains. Think mainly about Lionel O Gauge and American Flyer S gauge. It doesn't seem to me that the numbers are declining and I'm talking the collecting part. And unlike years ago where train shows and list sent by collectors were how you found items the electronic age has opened things up to more people. I'm not just talking eBay and specific Yahoo groups either. There is an  entire network of vintage train collectors out there and that includes HO which is much newer then other collectable gauges. And being newer the collectable value, in my opinion, has not reached a peak. O gauge and S gauge have almost set prices for any item , even cheap items based on what the piece is and the condition. HO is starting to get there.       Point 2   I ask these questions for clarification.  The NMRA is establishing a museum of model railroading called the  " Howell Day Museum ". Since I don't know is HO included in that and while I know Howell Day was in HO will it be only his items included ?  ( Why not the Gordon Varney, Irv Athearn, John English, Nathan Polk, Bob Lindsay, Lew English, etc.. museum ? ) Emphasis on historic pieces. Who will make that decision ? I think I know a LOT of vintage HO pieces related to the development of the hobby. Oh then we have " charitable donations " . If the value of vintage HO will go down and no body will be interested why does the museum want donations ? Who decides what the significant pieces are ? ( NMRA. Model Railroader, Railroad Model Craftsman ? )  While most of the big names in HO are up in age or have passed on there are still many out there that know HO inside and out. Check names of the supporting cast  for say the Greenberg books as a start. Names of people who supplied their collection / pictures and information used. Will these very knowledgeable people be part of the process ?        I am in HO since 1958. I was brought into the collecting end by a number of people many now gone but I still find others who are finding out about collecting vintage HO and have contact with many others who are avid vintage HO collectors.. I can tell you one way or the other my collection will not be thrown in the dumpster or sold unwittingly for a fraction of their worth. But they definitely will not be donated to special interest museums like the NMRA or groups like them that say no value to HO but give us your collection as a charitable donation ( FREE ).       I am not trying to say your thoughts are wrong and this is not to start anything  but just that I feel a little different. I find it odd that my insurance company has me take out a special fire and theft policy that has to be fully documented and updated yearly if the collection has no value. They don't just accept what I feel is the value.        My trains have always been for my enjoyment. Maybe not as good an investment as IBM stock but still worthwhile. I think time will prove that                                               Jim H     ----- Original Message ----- From: Model RailRoad To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 07, 2011 9:36 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Unpleasant discussion/was Too Much Stuff??     Three short observations: 1) Our collectibles have certain [often elevated] value NOW because there are others who are interested in collecting them. Why? Because of nostalgia for items they once had or they never could have. This aspect of their value will be declining as there are fewer of us left in those two categories. Remember Avon bottles!!! 2) The NMRA is establishing a museum of model railroading ["Howell Day Museum"] with emphasis on historic pieces related to the development of the hobby. The point was raised about charitable donations, this would be one possible consideration for especially significant items. 3) Frequently, as a manufacturer, we recieve requests for donations for establishing working layouts at schools where creative teachers use trains to teach history or manual/artistic skills; at facilities I will lump into "nursing home" catch all title and for organizations like the Boys and Girls Club or church youth programs. Granted,the historical aspect may not be valued but (remember my point #1) the trains may be. Local and state historical museums are interested in items related to local history (eg. a billboard reefer of local product) or kits manufactured locally. We recently assisted the local historical museum with Erie models as they rebuilt the long gone Huntington (In) Erie yards in an operating HO layout. Two or three local modellers also donated equipment for this attraction that relates local history--while exposing excited youngsters to the hobby. In the 45 years I've been in this business I have learned ("too late") of many nice collections (trains and other things too) landing in the dumnpster by unappreciative "quick cleanout relatives." Having lost our own parents, Bea and I are quite familiar with that mindset too. Maybe the bottom line should be: Did you buy those trains to enjoy or as an investment? There are usually far better investments. Merle Rice -- Regards, Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16261	From: jim heckard	Date: 3/7/2011
Subject: Re: Unpleasant discussion/was Too Much Stuff??

Glen,        I congratulate and commend you on your efforts. You are a better man then me. You must be financially well off to be able to do all that.   However I think this is getting way off track ( pun intended) and should get back to HO trains.                                                                               Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: Glenn To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 07, 2011 2:51 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Unpleasant discussion/was Too Much Stuff??   the museum will be named for Mr. Day since he provided the founding endowment.  I am directing that quite a bit of my older HO, OO, and O go to the Howell Day museum, with the understanding that they might well sell or trade materials   that are redundant.   I was considering giving the California portion of my library to the local library, but since they have a very-cheap book sale each year I think I would add some sort of condition that any sales be conducted through an  auction  system so that fair values are received.  Colorado RR Museum’s annual mail auction comes to mind.  gj   From: Walter Bayer II Sent: Monday, March 07, 2011 10:49 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Unpleasant discussion/was Too Much Stuff??   Jim, One quick comment, and I'll be quiet: Before you dismiss "giving" your collection, by will, to something like NMRA Howell Day Museum, you should discuss the matter with your wife and children and also your attorney and your tax accountant. I don't have any idea how large your personal estate may be, counting real estate, insurance, stocks bonds, bank accounts, trains and other collectibles,  etc., but maybe an estate tax deduction for a charitable donation, especially if the value has been well documented as you state so emphatically it has, will be easy and useful to your heirs. Take a look at this NMRA webpage, or just search for Howell Day Museum to learn more about it and its objectives, if you want to, of course: www.nmra.org/membership/prescar/prespdf/2009_06Pres.pdf, On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 12:44 PM, jim heckard <jimheck@...> wrote:   Hi Merle,          I would like the chance to offer my thoughts about" vintage HO collecting" only as to how popular it is and in my mind will continue to be. Please bear with me as I state my views.          Lets forget AVON bottles . Lets think about how many years and how many people / collectors go from train show to train show to still search out vintage trains. Think mainly about Lionel O Gauge and American Flyer S gauge. It doesn't seem to me that the numbers are declining and I'm talking the collecting part. And unlike years ago where train shows and list sent by collectors were how you found items the electronic age has opened things up to more people. I'm not just talking eBay and specific Yahoo groups either. There is an  entire network of vintage train collectors out there and that includes HO which is much newer then other collectable gauges. And being newer the collectable value, in my opinion, has not reached a peak. O gauge and S gauge have almost set prices for any item , even cheap items based on what the piece is and the condition. HO is starting to get there.       Point 2   I ask these questions for clarification.  The NMRA is establishing a museum of model railroading called the  " Howell Day Museum ". Since I don't know is HO included in that and while I know Howell Day was in HO will it be only his items included ?  ( Why not the Gordon Varney, Irv Athearn, John English, Nathan Polk, Bob Lindsay, Lew English, etc.. museum ? ) Emphasis on historic pieces. Who will make that decision ? I think I know a LOT of vintage HO pieces related to the development of the hobby. Oh then we have " charitable donations " . If the value of vintage HO will go down and no body will be interested why does the museum want donations ? Who decides what the significant pieces are ? ( NMRA. Model Railroader, Railroad Model Craftsman ? )  While most of the big names in HO are up in age or have passed on there are still many out there that know HO inside and out. Check names of the supporting cast  for say the Greenberg books as a start. Names of people who supplied their collection / pictures and information used. Will these very knowledgeable people be part of the process ?        I am in HO since 1958. I was brought into the collecting end by a number of people many now gone but I still find others who are finding out about collecting vintage HO and have contact with many others who are avid vintage HO collectors.. I can tell you one way or the other my collection will not be thrown in the dumpster or sold unwittingly for a fraction of their worth. But they definitely will not be donated to special interest museums like the NMRA or groups like them that say no value to HO but give us your collection as a charitable donation ( FREE ).       I am not trying to say your thoughts are wrong and this is not to start anything  but just that I feel a little different. I find it odd that my insurance company has me take out a special fire and theft policy that has to be fully documented and updated yearly if the collection has no value. They don't just accept what I feel is the value.        My trains have always been for my enjoyment. Maybe not as good an investment as IBM stock but still worthwhile. I think time will prove that                                               Jim H     ----- Original Message ----- From: Model RailRoad To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 07, 2011 9:36 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Unpleasant discussion/was Too Much Stuff??     Three short observations: 1) Our collectibles have certain [often elevated] value NOW because there are others who are interested in collecting them. Why? Because of nostalgia for items they once had or they never could have. This aspect of their value will be declining as there are fewer of us left in those two categories. Remember Avon bottles!!! 2) The NMRA is establishing a museum of model railroading ["Howell Day Museum"] with emphasis on historic pieces related to the development of the hobby. The point was raised about charitable donations, this would be one possible consideration for especially significant items. 3) Frequently, as a manufacturer, we recieve requests for donations for establishing working layouts at schools where creative teachers use trains to teach history or manual/artistic skills; at facilities I will lump into "nursing home" catch all title and for organizations like the Boys and Girls Club or church youth programs. Granted,the historical aspect may not be valued but (remember my point #1) the trains may be. Local and state historical museums are interested in items related to local history (eg. a billboard reefer of local product) or kits manufactured locally. We recently assisted the local historical museum with Erie models as they rebuilt the long gone Huntington (In) Erie yards in an operating HO layout. Two or three local modellers also donated equipment for this attraction that relates local history--while exposing excited youngsters to the hobby. In the 45 years I've been in this business I have learned ("too late") of many nice collections (trains and other things too) landing in the dumnpster by unappreciative "quick cleanout relatives." Having lost our own parents, Bea and I are quite familiar with that mindset too. Maybe the bottom line should be: Did you buy those trains to enjoy or as an investment? There are usually far better investments. Merle Rice -- Regards, Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16262	From: Glenn	Date: 3/7/2011
Subject: Re: Unpleasant discussion/was Too Much Stuff??

No—not really—I am “Gainfully Unemployed”  (retired) but don’t really have anyone I want to leave things to—and as far as I know I can’t take it with me---Presently I am beginning to thin out my collections (accumulations??) to what has significance to me—things may start showing up on the Vintage HO and other groups –I think mainly as I see inquiries about particular items--   gj   From: jim heckard Sent: Monday, March 07, 2011 12:38 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Unpleasant discussion/was Too Much Stuff??   Glen,        I congratulate and commend you on your efforts. You are a better man then me. You must be financially well off to be able to do all that.   However I think this is getting way off track ( pun intended) and should get back to HO trains.                                                                              Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: Glenn To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 07, 2011 2:51 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Unpleasant discussion/was Too Much Stuff??     the museum will be named for Mr. Day since he provided the founding endowment.  I am directing that quite a bit of my older HO, OO, and O go to the Howell Day museum, with the understanding that they might well sell or trade materials   that are redundant.   I was considering giving the California portion of my library to the local library, but since they have a very-cheap book sale each year I think I would add some sort of condition that any sales be conducted through an  auction  system so that fair values are received.  Colorado RR Museum’s annual mail auction comes to mind.  gj   From: Walter Bayer II Sent: Monday, March 07, 2011 10:49 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Unpleasant discussion/was Too Much Stuff??   Jim, One quick comment, and I'll be quiet: Before you dismiss "giving" your collection, by will, to something like NMRA Howell Day Museum, you should discuss the matter with your wife and children and also your attorney and your tax accountant. I don't have any idea how large your personal estate may be, counting real estate, insurance, stocks bonds, bank accounts, trains and other collectibles,  etc., but maybe an estate tax deduction for a charitable donation, especially if the value has been well documented as you state so emphatically it has, will be easy and useful to your heirs. Take a look at this NMRA webpage, or just search for Howell Day Museum to learn more about it and its objectives, if you want to, of course: www.nmra.org/membership/prescar/prespdf/2009_06Pres.pdf, On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 12:44 PM, jim heckard <jimheck@...> wrote:   Hi Merle,          I would like the chance to offer my thoughts about" vintage HO collecting" only as to how popular it is and in my mind will continue to be. Please bear with me as I state my views.          Lets forget AVON bottles . Lets think about how many years and how many people / collectors go from train show to train show to still search out vintage trains. Think mainly about Lionel O Gauge and American Flyer S gauge. It doesn't seem to me that the numbers are declining and I'm talking the collecting part. And unlike years ago where train shows and list sent by collectors were how you found items the electronic age has opened things up to more people. I'm not just talking eBay and specific Yahoo groups either. There is an  entire network of vintage train collectors out there and that includes HO which is much newer then other collectable gauges. And being newer the collectable value, in my opinion, has not reached a peak. O gauge and S gauge have almost set prices for any item , even cheap items based on what the piece is and the condition. HO is starting to get there.       Point 2   I ask these questions for clarification.  The NMRA is establishing a museum of model railroading called the  " Howell Day Museum ". Since I don't know is HO included in that and while I know Howell Day was in HO will it be only his items included ?  ( Why not the Gordon Varney, Irv Athearn, John English, Nathan Polk, Bob Lindsay, Lew English, etc.. museum ? ) Emphasis on historic pieces. Who will make that decision ? I think I know a LOT of vintage HO pieces related to the development of the hobby. Oh then we have " charitable donations " . If the value of vintage HO will go down and no body will be interested why does the museum want donations ? Who decides what the significant pieces are ? ( NMRA. Model Railroader, Railroad Model Craftsman ? )  While most of the big names in HO are up in age or have passed on there are still many out there that know HO inside and out. Check names of the supporting cast  for say the Greenberg books as a start. Names of people who supplied their collection / pictures and information used. Will these very knowledgeable people be part of the process ?        I am in HO since 1958. I was brought into the collecting end by a number of people many now gone but I still find others who are finding out about collecting vintage HO and have contact with many others who are avid vintage HO collectors.. I can tell you one way or the other my collection will not be thrown in the dumpster or sold unwittingly for a fraction of their worth. But they definitely will not be donated to special interest museums like the NMRA or groups like them that say no value to HO but give us your collection as a charitable donation ( FREE ).       I am not trying to say your thoughts are wrong and this is not to start anything  but just that I feel a little different. I find it odd that my insurance company has me take out a special fire and theft policy that has to be fully documented and updated yearly if the collection has no value. They don't just accept what I feel is the value.        My trains have always been for my enjoyment. Maybe not as good an investment as IBM stock but still worthwhile. I think time will prove that                                               Jim H     ----- Original Message ----- From: Model RailRoad To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 07, 2011 9:36 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Unpleasant discussion/was Too Much Stuff??     Three short observations: 1) Our collectibles have certain [often elevated] value NOW because there are others who are interested in collecting them. Why? Because of nostalgia for items they once had or they never could have. This aspect of their value will be declining as there are fewer of us left in those two categories. Remember Avon bottles!!! 2) The NMRA is establishing a museum of model railroading ["Howell Day Museum"] with emphasis on historic pieces related to the development of the hobby. The point was raised about charitable donations, this would be one possible consideration for especially significant items. 3) Frequently, as a manufacturer, we recieve requests for donations for establishing working layouts at schools where creative teachers use trains to teach history or manual/artistic skills; at facilities I will lump into "nursing home" catch all title and for organizations like the Boys and Girls Club or church youth programs. Granted,the historical aspect may not be valued but (remember my point #1) the trains may be. Local and state historical museums are interested in items related to local history (eg. a billboard reefer of local product) or kits manufactured locally. We recently assisted the local historical museum with Erie models as they rebuilt the long gone Huntington (In) Erie yards in an operating HO layout. Two or three local modellers also donated equipment for this attraction that relates local history--while exposing excited youngsters to the hobby. In the 45 years I've been in this business I have learned ("too late") of many nice collections (trains and other things too) landing in the dumnpster by unappreciative "quick cleanout relatives." Having lost our own parents, Bea and I are quite familiar with that mindset too. Maybe the bottom line should be: Did you buy those trains to enjoy or as an investment? There are usually far better investments. Merle Rice -- Regards, Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16263	From: Chris B	Date: 3/7/2011
Subject: Re: Unpleasant discussion/was Too Much Stuff??

And Glenn, your situation applies not just to those without heirs, but also to those who have no one who could be tasked with dealing with a collection... Chris B. From: "Glenn" <glenn476@...> Sender: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 13:35:10 -0800 To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> ReplyTo: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Unpleasant discussion/was Too Much Stuff??   No—not really—I am “Gainfully Unemployed”  (retired) but don’t really have anyone I want to leave things to—and as far as I know I can’t take it with me---Presently I am beginning to thin out my collections (accumulations??) to what has significance to me—things may start showing up on the Vintage HO and other groups –I think mainly as I see inquiries about particular items--   gj   From: jim heckard Sent: Monday, March 07, 2011 12:38 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Unpleasant discussion/was Too Much Stuff??   Glen,        I congratulate and commend you on your efforts. You are a better man then me. You must be financially well off to be able to do all that.   However I think this is getting way off track ( pun intended) and should get back to HO trains.                                                                              Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: Glenn To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 07, 2011 2:51 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Unpleasant discussion/was Too Much Stuff??     the museum will be named for Mr. Day since he provided the founding endowment.  I am directing that quite a bit of my older HO, OO, and O go to the Howell Day museum, with the understanding that they might well sell or trade materials   that are redundant.   I was considering giving the California portion of my library to the local library, but since they have a very-cheap book sale each year I think I would add some sort of condition that any sales be conducted through an  auction  system so that fair values are received.  Colorado RR Museum’s annual mail auction comes to mind.  gj   From: Walter Bayer II Sent: Monday, March 07, 2011 10:49 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Unpleasant discussion/was Too Much Stuff??   Jim, One quick comment, and I'll be quiet: Before you dismiss "giving" your collection, by will, to something like NMRA Howell Day Museum, you should discuss the matter with your wife and children and also your attorney and your tax accountant. I don't have any idea how large your personal estate may be, counting real estate, insurance, stocks bonds, bank accounts, trains and other collectibles,  etc., but maybe an estate tax deduction for a charitable donation, especially if the value has been well documented as you state so emphatically it has, will be easy and useful to your heirs. Take a look at this NMRA webpage, or just search for Howell Day Museum to learn more about it and its objectives, if you want to, of course: www.nmra.org/membership/prescar/prespdf/2009_06Pres.pdf, On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 12:44 PM, jim heckard <jimheck@...> wrote:   Hi Merle,          I would like the chance to offer my thoughts about" vintage HO collecting" only as to how popular it is and in my mind will continue to be. Please bear with me as I state my views.          Lets forget AVON bottles . Lets think about how many years and how many people / collectors go from train show to train show to still search out vintage trains. Think mainly about Lionel O Gauge and American Flyer S gauge. It doesn't seem to me that the numbers are declining and I'm talking the collecting part. And unlike years ago where train shows and list sent by collectors were how you found items the electronic age has opened things up to more people. I'm not just talking eBay and specific Yahoo groups either. There is an  entire network of vintage train collectors out there and that includes HO which is much newer then other collectable gauges. And being newer the collectable value, in my opinion, has not reached a peak. O gauge and S gauge have almost set prices for any item , even cheap items based on what the piece is and the condition. HO is starting to get there.       Point 2   I ask these questions for clarification.  The NMRA is establishing a museum of model railroading called the  " Howell Day Museum ". Since I don't know is HO included in that and while I know Howell Day was in HO will it be only his items included ?  ( Why not the Gordon Varney, Irv Athearn, John English, Nathan Polk, Bob Lindsay, Lew English, etc.. museum ? ) Emphasis on historic pieces. Who will make that decision ? I think I know a LOT of vintage HO pieces related to the development of the hobby. Oh then we have " charitable donations " . If the value of vintage HO will go down and no body will be interested why does the museum want donations ? Who decides what the significant pieces are ? ( NMRA. Model Railroader, Railroad Model Craftsman ? )  While most of the big names in HO are up in age or have passed on there are still many out there that know HO inside and out. Check names of the supporting cast  for say the Greenberg books as a start. Names of people who supplied their collection / pictures and information used. Will these very knowledgeable people be part of the process ?        I am in HO since 1958. I was brought into the collecting end by a number of people many now gone but I still find others who are finding out about collecting vintage HO and have contact with many others who are avid vintage HO collectors.. I can tell you one way or the other my collection will not be thrown in the dumpster or sold unwittingly for a fraction of their worth. But they definitely will not be donated to special interest museums like the NMRA or groups like them that say no value to HO but give us your collection as a charitable donation ( FREE ).       I am not trying to say your thoughts are wrong and this is not to start anything  but just that I feel a little different. I find it odd that my insurance company has me take out a special fire and theft policy that has to be fully documented and updated yearly if the collection has no value. They don't just accept what I feel is the value.        My trains have always been for my enjoyment. Maybe not as good an investment as IBM stock but still worthwhile. I think time will prove that                                               Jim H     ----- Original Message ----- From: Model RailRoad To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 07, 2011 9:36 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Unpleasant discussion/was Too Much Stuff??     Three short observations: 1) Our collectibles have certain [often elevated] value NOW because there are others who are interested in collecting them. Why? Because of nostalgia for items they once had or they never could have. This aspect of their value will be declining as there are fewer of us left in those two categories. Remember Avon bottles!!! 2) The NMRA is establishing a museum of model railroading ["Howell Day Museum"] with emphasis on historic pieces related to the development of the hobby. The point was raised about charitable donations, this would be one possible consideration for especially significant items. 3) Frequently, as a manufacturer, we recieve requests for donations for establishing working layouts at schools where creative teachers use trains to teach history or manual/artistic skills; at facilities I will lump into "nursing home" catch all title and for organizations like the Boys and Girls Club or church youth programs. Granted,the historical aspect may not be valued but (remember my point #1) the trains may be. Local and state historical museums are interested in items related to local history (eg. a billboard reefer of local product) or kits manufactured locally. We recently assisted the local historical museum with Erie models as they rebuilt the long gone Huntington (In) Erie yards in an operating HO layout. Two or three local modellers also donated equipment for this attraction that relates local history--while exposing excited youngsters to the hobby. In the 45 years I've been in this business I have learned ("too late") of many nice collections (trains and other things too) landing in the dumnpster by unappreciative "quick cleanout relatives." Having lost our own parents, Bea and I are quite familiar with that mindset too. Maybe the bottom line should be: Did you buy those trains to enjoy or as an investment? There are usually far better investments. Merle Rice -- Regards, Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16264	From: jim heckard	Date: 3/7/2011
Subject: Item you might decide to part with

Glenn,       If and when you decide to part with certain items and one would happen to be a Sampson powered Aluminum rail car known as "The Silver Bullet"  ( 1949 or 1950 version ) that looks like an upside down old bath tub something like the Zephyr let me know before you put it up for sale. This way I inquired first.                                                    Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16265	From: Chris B	Date: 3/7/2011
Subject: Re: Item you might decide to part with

Who says this lengthy discussion of morbid futures and estate handling doesn't have a silver Vintage HO lining??! LOL! From: "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> Sender: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 18:05:14 -0500 To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> ReplyTo: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Item you might decide to part with   Glenn,       If and when you decide to part with certain items and one would happen to be a Sampson powered Aluminum rail car known as "The Silver Bullet"  ( 1949 or 1950 version ) that looks like an upside down old bath tub something like the Zephyr let me know before you put it up for sale. This way I inquired first.                                                    Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16266	From: Glenn	Date: 3/7/2011
Subject: Re: Item you might decide to part with

Sorry—I don’t have one—I remember wanting one about 60 years ago—(I’m 69 now—)  byut never  got one.Such things were financed by mowing neighbors’ lawns, and caring for yards when they were away.  Local hobby shops didn’t carry it and I wound up  buying a John English.  Almost all my HO from those days left when I started college—I was in a long metamorphosis into O Scale, via the trolley route.When the Army had me at Walter Reed in the mid-sixties I met  John Armstrong and je pushed me the rest of the way into O.  Since then I have occasionally gotten HO items out of nostalgia—which accounts for all the MDC and Mantua equipment I now have—As I sort those for condition I will list the excess for sale.  along the way I have done clinics for PCR/NMRA—such as for their 50th anniversary in 1994.  That flushed out some unbuilt kits, including a 1948 MDC 0-6-0 switcher.   glenn   From: Chris B Sent: Monday, March 07, 2011 3:14 PM To: Vint Ho Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Item you might decide to part with   Who says this lengthy discussion of morbid futures and estate handling doesn't have a silver Vintage HO lining??! LOL! From: "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> Sender: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 18:05:14 -0500 To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> ReplyTo: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Item you might decide to part with     Glenn,       If and when you decide to part with certain items and one would happen to be a Sampson powered Aluminum rail car known as "The Silver Bullet"  ( 1949 or 1950 version ) that looks like an upside down old bath tub something like the Zephyr let me know before you put it up for sale. This way I inquired first.                                                    Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16267	From: bongiovanni12001	Date: 3/7/2011
Subject: Re: Unpleasant discussion

Yes, this is an unpleasant discussion, but, unfortunately, necessary. To answer your question, Chris, if you or your heirs can find someone reputable who's knowledgeable in this field, and if they are prepared to pay a fee (see my comments about time vs. money)then that's a solution. And one thing I should have been very specific about in my prior note was that you should talk to a tax expert (a real one)about gifting items. The final comment I'll make (don't hold me to that!!)is that all the guys who have commented have different situations, different heir issues, and different estate tax issues. I still stand by my main points which is to do an inventory (and Excel makes this easy, and valuations can be changed; if I can do excel anybody can do Excel)and have the conversation. Whether it's with probable survivors, a local org., or just someone you trust to make sure things get handled. Unless you want your Varney Yellowstone to end up in the dumpster. Frank Bongiovanni --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Chris B" <chrisb_acw_rr@...> wrote: > > Just one question: any problem with using a reputable estate sale service working on a percentage of the sale total, using the collector's inventory information and only selling that which is designated to be sold, and even if no one else is available, having them pack up and ship all the rest that are inheritance and donation pieces ? > Any downside? Assuming a substantial collection, good records, a reputable firm, and the simple strategy that it's worth paying a reasonable percentage of the best market value and having few worries -----compared to doing plenty of work and maybe getting 100% of a lesser total ----because whoever sells the items is not a paid professional who benefits more if each item sells for the maximum? > Seems like an appropriate solution to maximizing return, minimizing hassles and 5% "buddies" and sparing survivors work and worries...any issues with estate sale firms we shoul know about? > Chris B. > -----Original Message----- > From: "bongiovanni12001" <bongiovanni1@...> > Sender: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2011 01:54:51 > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [vintageHO] Unpleasant discussion/was Too Much Stuff?? > > I guess I should have expected this discussion. I've given a clinic to the two local NMRA Divisions on Estate Planning for Model Railroaders. I posted the handout on their webpages and on the brass lists that I'm on. If I can find the handout on one of these d*gg*ne computers I'll post it here. But you all, especially Jim, Bill, and Chuck, have hit on the major points. Some of your stuff is worth something. Some of your stuff is historical, even if the dollar value isn't much. Some of your stuff (I'm guessing)is junque. Unless your survivors hire "pros", they probably have no clue which is which. The Cliff Notes version of the clinic is: > > Inventory your stuff. (Side benefits: you may want to have a talk with your insurance man; you may find stuff you forgot you had; and you might think twice before buying more). > > To the inventory, add some suggestions about who to call, what might be best given to a charity (especially a 501(c)(3)org like the NMRA or a historical society)so a survivor can get a tax deduction. > > Put the inventory where your probable survivors can find it. > > Have the conversation. And discuss time versus money. Warn your probable survivor that one week after you go to that Motor Barn in the Sky one of your good buddies is going to come by and offer her 5% of the value of what's in your basement "to get those silly trains out of your way". Does your wife want to sell the stuff rapidly, does she want a long drawn out relationship with eBay or ???, or does she want to do train shows for three years (I've seen all of these, and I'll bet most of you have too). In the conversation make sure that they understand that some of those pieces have major sentimental value to you, and you wouldn't take a thousand dollars for them, but that on the open market they're a $20 item. Remember that unless you're kinda warped, IMHO, you don't want your wife taking $20 for that rare Varney piece that she could have had $500 for, and you don't want her suffering the snickers from your "friends" when she asks for $200 for that $3 piece of Tyco. > > Here endeth the lesson, except for the disclaimer: I am not seeking estate work, I don't do wills, and I don't do appraisals because I'm still buying and there's a conflict of interest there (waivable if anybody out there has an NJCB VGN USD to get rid of LOL). > > Frank Bongiovanni, Atty. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16268	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 3/7/2011
Subject: Walthers OO Cars?

Group, I am into American OO as well as HO and converting prewar and early postwar 2 rail O scale to 3 rail operation. With my American OO, I put HO trucks underneath and run them in dedicated trains on my HO layout. I noticed earlier today, that some Walthers 1940s soft metal cars, the 40' flatcar and 40' outside braced gondola, at least, are closer width-wise to OO than HO. I can't find any reference to how wide a real flat or outside gondola should be, but they are over 10 scale feet wide, which is how wide most newer rolling stock maxes out at. They are perhaps slightly over 1/8" wider than other cars. I would assume (A dangerous word there!), that in the late prewar era with Scale-Craft doing fairly well in American OO and Lionel throwing their hat into the OO ring, that there were companies that made cars that could go either way easily? Surely it was anyone's game, if OO or HO would come out as the dominant scale? It had me wondering if anyone has any light they could shed on it? Perhaps Walthers was "hedging their bets" by making some cars a little wider? -Steve Neubaum

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16269	From: jim heckard	Date: 3/7/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers OO Cars?

Steve,   Go to    www.americanOO.blogspot.com   which is moderated by John Erickson. I think you will find tons of information about OO like Scalecraft, Lionel and Nason but also HO items converted to OO and vice versa including passenger cars and freight cars.  After reading all the information you might want to contact john at jqericson@...  Tell him Jim H the guy that sold him the Nason Hudson said to contact him. Hope this helps.                                    Jim H ----- Original Message ----- From: Stephen Neubaum To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 07, 2011 9:24 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Walthers OO Cars?   Group, I am into American OO as well as HO and converting prewar and early postwar 2 rail O scale to 3 rail operation. With my American OO, I put HO trucks underneath and run them in dedicated trains on my HO layout. I noticed earlier today, that some Walthers 1940s soft metal cars, the 40' flatcar and 40' outside braced gondola, at least, are closer width-wise to OO than HO. I can't find any reference to how wide a real flat or outside gondola should be, but they are over 10 scale feet wide, which is how wide most newer rolling stock maxes out at. They are perhaps slightly over 1/8" wider than other cars. I would assume (A dangerous word there!), that in the late prewar era with Scale-Craft doing fairly well in American OO and Lionel throwing their hat into the OO ring, that there were companies that made cars that could go either way easily? Surely it was anyone's game, if OO or HO would come out as the dominant scale? It had me wondering if anyone has any light they could shed on it? Perhaps Walthers was "hedging their bets" by making some cars a little wider? -Steve Neubaum

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16270	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 3/7/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers OO Cars?

Jim, I am very familiar with that site, having left some comments here and there, even. I was just on it, even, and while I did find some interesting info on Mantua making OO track and a Belle of the Eighties, haven't found anything on Walthers. Interesting thing about converting American OO to HO operation, is that if you find the earlier, WWI era design boxcars, such as cars patterned off of USRA blueprints, they are smaller, and will blend well with HO. I just finished one such boxcar. I have also become aware that Picard Novelty, produced three lines of carbodies: O, OO and HO. I think all mine are either O or HO... Thanks, Jim, and pre-emptive thanks to anyone else who can feed my curiousity. -Steve Neubaum --- On Mon, 3/7/11, jim heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: From: jim heckard <jimheck@...> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Walthers OO Cars? To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, March 7, 2011, 8:43 PM   Steve,   Go to    www.americanOO.blogspot.com   which is moderated by John Erickson. I think you will find tons of information about OO like Scalecraft, Lionel and Nason but also HO items converted to OO and vice versa including passenger cars and freight cars.  After reading all the information you might want to contact john at jqericson@...  Tell him Jim H the guy that sold him the Nason Hudson said to contact him. Hope this helps.                                    Jim H ----- Original Message ----- From: Stephen Neubaum To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 07, 2011 9:24 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Walthers OO Cars?   Group, I am into American OO as well as HO and converting prewar and early postwar 2 rail O scale to 3 rail operation. With my American OO, I put HO trucks underneath and run them in dedicated trains on my HO layout. I noticed earlier today, that some Walthers 1940s soft metal cars, the 40' flatcar and 40' outside braced gondola, at least, are closer width-wise to OO than HO. I can't find any reference to how wide a real flat or outside gondola should be, but they are over 10 scale feet wide, which is how wide most newer rolling stock maxes out at. They are perhaps slightly over 1/8" wider than other cars. I would assume (A dangerous word there!), that in the late prewar era with Scale-Craft doing fairly well in American OO and Lionel throwing their hat into the OO ring, that there were companies that made cars that could go either way easily? Surely it was anyone's game, if OO or HO would come out as the dominant scale? It had me wondering if anyone has any light they could shed on it? Perhaps Walthers was "hedging their bets" by making some cars a little wider? -Steve Neubaum

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16271	From: Chris B	Date: 3/8/2011
Subject: Re: Unpleasant discussion

Frank wrote: "To answer your question, Chris, if you or your heirs can find someone reputable who's knowledgeable in this field, and if they are prepared to pay a fee (see my comments about time vs. money )then that's a solution." Thanks, for your reply, but while you've covered almost every other aspect of this whole issue in your presentations and in your postings, I am not  asking about "finding a reputable someone who's knowledgeable in this field"....that's easy to say and hard to do. The single question I'm asking about is whether your experience leads you to know about any issues with using an actual, established estate sale firm.  Such firms are bonded full-time organized firms that handle the disposition of estate goods as their primary line of business.   They are common in urban areas, and even in rural areas, they've existed for over a century, busy with the disposal of farm estates and goods. I have no connection of any kind with any of them, but I would be surprised at this discussion's breadth if they are not at least mentioned or included. They are not (and don't have to be) expert in the details of every category of collectibles; that's where a detailed inventory with descriptions and estimated values is essential; but they are expert and experienced in the details of getting the highest return from the sale of an estate's goods, since they operate on a flat fee plus a negotiated percentage of the gross total of the estate goods sale. I'm 59 and have seen in recent years many  such firms conduct online estate and collection disposal auctions of model railroad, antique toy, and other categories of collectibles that are similar to the ongoing online auctions conducted by established auction houses.   All of these are totally disconnected from eBay and similar sites, and are conducted with advance availability of detailed item catalogs that often give the estimated value of each item. Knowledgeable dealers follow the sites of these estate sale and standard auction houses, and they do competitively bid up the prices of most items to the equivalent wholesale value. Bidders register in advance, auctions are conducted for a specific period of time, and all aspects of the sales are public and transparent. For those without relatives or associates willing and able to do the massive work required to dispose of a major collection, and I submit that would describe many major collectors, thisis one way to ensure the work is done and the collection converted into funds without the risk of firesale prices or unrealistic valuations. The wide reach of such sales and the competition from such dealers does ensure the collection brings approximately its wholesale value, and sometimes more. The price paid by the estate or heirs for this service is a fair fee for all of the work done by the firms, where the heirs only have to provide the firm with the detailed inventory with estimated valuation records and access to the collection, that's it, the estate sale firm does the rest, as they do in all of their contracted sales. That's all they do, it's their only business, they do it 52 weeks a year, and the good ones are widely appreciated for their efficiency and honest dealings.  The bad ones don't get work and don't last. It's not a problem of finding one, just google estate sales, or look in your local yellow pages, and only consider a firm that can show it's lasted for decades. Or look onliine for auctions f model railroad collections at sites other than eBay. For those with smaller collections, or plenty of interested active energetic heirs, this is not relevant information. But for those with major collections that have no heirs or want to spare their families the work and ensure the return is not damaged by ignorance or nefarious arrangements, it's an option they should probably know about. Chris B. From: bongiovanni12001 <bongiovanni1@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, March 7, 2011 8:28:18 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Unpleasant discussion   Yes, this is an unpleasant discussion, but, unfortunately, necessary. To answer your question, Chris, if you or your heirs can find someone reputable who's knowledgeable in this field, and if they are prepared to pay a fee (see my comments about time vs. money)then that's a solution. And one thing I should have been very specific about in my prior note was that you should talk to a tax expert (a real one)about gifting items. The final comment I'll make (don't hold me to that!!)is that all the guys who have commented have different situations, different heir issues, and different estate tax issues. I still stand by my main points which is to do an inventory (and Excel makes this easy, and valuations can be changed; if I can do excel anybody can do Excel)and have the conversation. Whether it's with probable survivors, a local org., or just someone you trust to make sure things get handled. Unless you want your Varney Yellowstone to end up in the dumpster. Frank Bongiovanni --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Chris B" <chrisb_acw_rr@...> wrote: > > Just one question: any problem with using a reputable estate sale service working on a percentage of the sale total, using the collector's inventory information and only selling that which is designated to be sold, and even if no one else is available, having them pack up and ship all the rest that are inheritance and donation pieces ? > Any downside? Assuming a substantial collection, good records, a reputable firm, and the simple strategy that it's worth paying a reasonable percentage of the best market value and having few worries -----compared to doing plenty of work and maybe getting 100% of a lesser total ----because whoever sells the items is not a paid professional who benefits more if each item sells for the maximum? > Seems like an appropriate solution to maximizing return, minimizing hassles and 5% "buddies" and sparing survivors work and worries...any issues with estate sale firms we shoul know about? > Chris B. > -----Original Message----- > From: "bongiovanni12001" <bongiovanni1@...> > Sender: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2011 01:54:51 > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Reply-To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [vintageHO] Unpleasant discussion/was Too Much Stuff?? > > I guess I should have expected this discussion. I've given a clinic to the two local NMRA Divisions on Estate Planning for Model Railroaders. I posted the handout on their webpages and on the brass lists that I'm on. If I can find the handout on one of these d*gg*ne computers I'll post it here. But you all, especially Jim, Bill, and Chuck, have hit on the major points. Some of your stuff is worth something. Some of your stuff is historical, even if the dollar value isn't much. Some of your stuff (I'm guessing)is junque. Unless your survivors hire "pros", they probably have no clue which is which. The Cliff Notes version of the clinic is: > > Inventory your stuff. (Side benefits: you may want to have a talk with your insurance man; you may find stuff you forgot you had; and you might think twice before buying more). > > To the inventory, add some suggestions about who to call, what might be best given to a charity (especially a 501(c)(3)org like the NMRA or a historical society)so a survivor can get a tax deduction. > > Put the inventory where your probable survivors can find it. > > Have the conversation. And discuss time versus money. Warn your probable survivor that one week after you go to that Motor Barn in the Sky one of your good buddies is going to come by and offer her 5% of the value of what's in your basement "to get those silly trains out of your way". Does your wife want to sell the stuff rapidly, does she want a long drawn out relationship with eBay or ???, or does she want to do train shows for three years (I've seen all of these, and I'll bet most of you have too). In the conversation make sure that they understand that some of those pieces have major sentimental value to you, and you wouldn't take a thousand dollars for them, but that on the open market they're a $20 item. Remember that unless you're kinda warped, IMHO, you don't want your wife taking $20 for that rare Varney piece that she could have had $500 for, and you don't want her suffering the snickers from your "friends" when she asks for $200 for that $3 piece of Tyco. > > Here endeth the lesson, except for the disclaimer: I am not seeking estate work, I don't do wills, and I don't do appraisals because I'm still buying and there's a conflict of interest there (waivable if anybody out there has an NJCB VGN USD to get rid of LOL). > > Frank Bongiovanni, Atty. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16272	From: Matthew	Date: 3/8/2011
Subject: Should we start a new group for Model RR Estate discussions

I know that not everyone liked this discussion, but having passed the big "six oh" a while back, I have started to ponder this subject more often. I am certainly not the guy, but would there be a critical mass of us older collectors who might be interested in a group that could discuss, as needed, thoughts on estate planning for large model railroad collections? Just a thought. Sorry to interrupt the flow of the discussion. Matt Coleman

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16273	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 3/8/2011
Subject: Re: Should we start a new group for Model RR Estate discussions

Call it Vintage HOer's? On Tue, Mar 8, 2011 at 6:13 PM, Matthew <mattjcoleman@...> wrote:   I know that not everyone liked this discussion, but having passed the big "six oh" a while back, I have started to ponder this subject more often. I am certainly not the guy, but would there be a critical mass of us older collectors who might be interested in a group that could discuss, as needed, thoughts on estate planning for large model railroad collections? Just a thought. Sorry to interrupt the flow of the discussion. Matt Coleman -- Regards, Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16274	From: Charles	Date: 3/8/2011
Subject: Re: Should we start a new group for Model RR Estate discussions

I suspect it is better to just have it come up as a topic from time to time on regular groups. If there were a special group, probably the only ones that would join are those who already "get it" anyway. This way, the notion reaches (or reminds) those who may be oblivious about this before they themselves head off to oblivion. Chuck Kinzer --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Walter Bayer II <bayerw2@...> wrote: > > Call it Vintage HOer's? > > On Tue, Mar 8, 2011 at 6:13 PM, Matthew <mattjcoleman@...> wrote: > > > > > > > I know that not everyone liked this discussion, but having passed the big > > "six oh" a while back, I have started to ponder this subject more often. I > > am certainly not the guy, but would there be a critical mass of us older > > collectors who might be interested in a group that could discuss, as needed, > > thoughts on estate planning for large model railroad collections? > > > > Just a thought. Sorry to interrupt the flow of the discussion. > > > > Matt Coleman > > > > > > > > > > -- > Regards, > Walter >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16275	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/8/2011
Subject: Re: Should we start a new group for Model RR Estate discussions

Just because you're young doesn't mean it isn't something you don't have to concern yourself with. I've seen at least two VERY extensive collections of HO and one amazing collection of 1:25 scale promotional automobile models disappear without a trace when the owners (in all 3 cases unmarried with no heirs) died in their 40's. I haven't said anything about this thread, because as collectors, I think the disposal of collections IS to a degree on topic, it's something that will rear it's ugly head for all of us sooner or later. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles" <ckinzer@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2011 5:12 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Should we start a new group for Model RR Estate discussions >I suspect it is better to just have it come up as a topic from time to time >on regular groups. > > If there were a special group, probably the only ones that would join are > those who already "get it" anyway. > > This way, the notion reaches (or reminds) those who may be oblivious about > this before they themselves head off to oblivion. > > Chuck Kinzer > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Walter Bayer II <bayerw2@...> wrote: >> >> Call it Vintage HOer's? >> >> On Tue, Mar 8, 2011 at 6:13 PM, Matthew <mattjcoleman@...> wrote: >> >> > >> > >> > I know that not everyone liked this discussion, but having passed the >> > big >> > "six oh" a while back, I have started to ponder this subject more >> > often. I >> > am certainly not the guy, but would there be a critical mass of us >> > older >> > collectors who might be interested in a group that could discuss, as >> > needed, >> > thoughts on estate planning for large model railroad collections? >> > >> > Just a thought. Sorry to interrupt the flow of the discussion. >> > >> > Matt Coleman >> > >> > >> > >> >> >> >> -- >> Regards, >> Walter >> > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16276	From: Dale Smith	Date: 3/8/2011
Subject: Re: Should we start a new group for Model RR Estate discussions

Even more perplexing is the issue of how to pass on our "web assets."  I started the Gilberthotrains group on Yahoo, because I saw what happened to another group called Gilbert HO Collectors.   The last real messages seemed to indicate that the moderator was having health problems, then his email started bouncing and the group became infested with sleazy spammers and exists in that state to this day.   I can't be sure, but I think he may have passed away.   For this reason I think it is important that every Yahoo group have at least two moderators to ward off this sort of a fate and I made sure my group did have two moderators. An even bigger problem is websites.  I run two, Gilbertho.org and Americanflyerdisplays.org.  They both involved considerable work to build and represent a lot of contributions by a lot of collectors.  I would hate to see them disappear when I do, but finding someone to be a backup, just in case, is a little more difficult because the person would need to know how to build and run a website.   I will figure it out, but it is something I have been thinking about.   I hope to be around for another 20 or so years, but you never know. Dale Smith On 3/8/2011 4:00 PM, Don Dellmann wrote:   Just because you're young doesn't mean it isn't something you don't have to concern yourself with. I've seen at least two VERY extensive collections of HO and one amazing collection of 1:25 scale promotional automobile models disappear without a trace when the owners (in all 3 cases unmarried with no heirs) died in their 40's. I haven't said anything about this thread, because as collectors, I think the disposal of collections IS to a degree on topic, it's something that will rear it's ugly head for all of us sooner or later. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles" <ckinzer@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2011 5:12 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Should we start a new group for Model RR Estate discussions >I suspect it is better to just have it come up as a topic from time to time >on regular groups. > > If there were a special group, probably the only ones that would join are > those who already "get it" anyway. > > This way, the notion reaches (or reminds) those who may be oblivious about > this before they themselves head off to oblivion. > > Chuck Kinzer > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Walter Bayer II <bayerw2@...> wrote: >> >> Call it Vintage HOer's? >> >> On Tue, Mar 8, 2011 at 6:13 PM, Matthew <mattjcoleman@...> wrote: >> >> > >> > >> > I know that not everyone liked this discussion, but having passed the >> > big >> > "six oh" a while back, I have started to ponder this subject more >> > often. I >> > am certainly not the guy, but would there be a critical mass of us >> > older >> > collectors who might be interested in a group that could discuss, as >> > needed, >> > thoughts on estate planning for large model railroad collections? >> > >> > Just a thought. Sorry to interrupt the flow of the discussion. >> > >> > Matt Coleman >> > >> > >> > >> >> >> >> -- >> Regards, >> Walter >> > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16277	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/8/2011
Subject: Re: Should we start a new group for Model RR Estate discussions

We do have another moderator here should my fast track lifestyle catch up with me (yeah sure!). The idea about websites is true, there's a great (and I can't think of the name) website devoted just to very small layouts that's going through that right now. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dale Smith" <dfsmith26@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2011 8:59 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Should we start a new group for Model RR Estate discussions > Even more perplexing is the issue of how to pass on our "web assets." I > started the Gilberthotrains group on Yahoo, because I saw what happened > to another group called Gilbert HO Collectors. The last real messages > seemed to indicate that the moderator was having health problems, then > his email started bouncing and the group became infested with sleazy > spammers and exists in that state to this day. I can't be sure, but I > think he may have passed away. For this reason I think it is important > that every Yahoo group have at least two moderators to ward off this > sort of a fate and I made sure my group did have two moderators. > > An even bigger problem is websites. I run two, Gilbertho.org and > Americanflyerdisplays.org. They both involved considerable work to > build and represent a lot of contributions by a lot of collectors. I > would hate to see them disappear when I do, but finding someone to be a > backup, just in case, is a little more difficult because the person > would need to know how to build and run a website. I will figure it > out, but it is something I have been thinking about. I hope to be > around for another 20 or so years, but you never know. > > Dale Smith > > On 3/8/2011 4:00 PM, Don Dellmann wrote: >> >> Just because you're young doesn't mean it isn't something you don't >> have to >> concern yourself with. I've seen at least two VERY extensive >> collections of >> HO and one amazing collection of 1:25 scale promotional automobile models >> disappear without a trace when the owners (in all 3 cases unmarried >> with no >> heirs) died in their 40's. >> >> I haven't said anything about this thread, because as collectors, I think >> the disposal of collections IS to a degree on topic, it's something that >> will rear it's ugly head for all of us sooner or later. >> >> Don >> >> Don Dellmann >> don.dellmann@... <mailto:don.dellmann%40prodigy.net> >> http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ >> http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction >> Owner >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Charles" <ckinzer@... <mailto:ckinzer%40att.net>> >> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com>> >> Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2011 5:12 PM >> Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Should we start a new group for Model RR Estate >> discussions >> >> >I suspect it is better to just have it come up as a topic from time >> to time >> >on regular groups. >> > >> > If there were a special group, probably the only ones that would >> join are >> > those who already "get it" anyway. >> > >> > This way, the notion reaches (or reminds) those who may be oblivious >> about >> > this before they themselves head off to oblivion. >> > >> > Chuck Kinzer >> > >> > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com>, Walter Bayer II <bayerw2@...> >> wrote: >> >> >> >> Call it Vintage HOer's? >> >> >> >> On Tue, Mar 8, 2011 at 6:13 PM, Matthew <mattjcoleman@...> wrote: >> >> >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > I know that not everyone liked this discussion, but having passed >> the >> >> > big >> >> > "six oh" a while back, I have started to ponder this subject more >> >> > often. I >> >> > am certainly not the guy, but would there be a critical mass of us >> >> > older >> >> > collectors who might be interested in a group that could discuss, as >> >> > needed, >> >> > thoughts on estate planning for large model railroad collections? >> >> > >> >> > Just a thought. Sorry to interrupt the flow of the discussion. >> >> > >> >> > Matt Coleman >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Regards, >> >> Walter >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > ------------------------------------ >> > >> > Yahoo! Groups Links >> > >> > >> > >> >> >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16278	From: bluenosedviking	Date: 3/9/2011
Subject: Re: Should we start a new group for Model RR Estate discussions

I think we should leave things "as is." There's bound to be overlap because Estates invariably involve Vintage. Kurt --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > We do have another moderator here should my fast track lifestyle catch up > with me (yeah sure!). > > The idea about websites is true, there's a great (and I can't think of the > name) website devoted just to very small layouts that's going through that > right now. > > Don > > Don Dellmann > don.dellmann@... > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ > http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction > Owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dale Smith" <dfsmith26@...> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2011 8:59 PM > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Should we start a new group for Model RR Estate > discussions > > > > Even more perplexing is the issue of how to pass on our "web assets." I > > started the Gilberthotrains group on Yahoo, because I saw what happened > > to another group called Gilbert HO Collectors. The last real messages > > seemed to indicate that the moderator was having health problems, then > > his email started bouncing and the group became infested with sleazy > > spammers and exists in that state to this day. I can't be sure, but I > > think he may have passed away. For this reason I think it is important > > that every Yahoo group have at least two moderators to ward off this > > sort of a fate and I made sure my group did have two moderators. > > > > An even bigger problem is websites. I run two, Gilbertho.org and > > Americanflyerdisplays.org. They both involved considerable work to > > build and represent a lot of contributions by a lot of collectors. I > > would hate to see them disappear when I do, but finding someone to be a > > backup, just in case, is a little more difficult because the person > > would need to know how to build and run a website. I will figure it > > out, but it is something I have been thinking about. I hope to be > > around for another 20 or so years, but you never know. > > > > Dale Smith > > > > On 3/8/2011 4:00 PM, Don Dellmann wrote: > >> > >> Just because you're young doesn't mean it isn't something you don't > >> have to > >> concern yourself with. I've seen at least two VERY extensive > >> collections of > >> HO and one amazing collection of 1:25 scale promotional automobile models > >> disappear without a trace when the owners (in all 3 cases unmarried > >> with no > >> heirs) died in their 40's. > >> > >> I haven't said anything about this thread, because as collectors, I think > >> the disposal of collections IS to a degree on topic, it's something that > >> will rear it's ugly head for all of us sooner or later. > >> > >> Don > >> > >> Don Dellmann > >> don.dellmann@... <mailto:don.dellmann%40prodigy.net> > >> http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ > >> http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction > >> Owner > >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Charles" <ckinzer@... <mailto:ckinzer%40att.net>> > >> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com>> > >> Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2011 5:12 PM > >> Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Should we start a new group for Model RR Estate > >> discussions > >> > >> >I suspect it is better to just have it come up as a topic from time > >> to time > >> >on regular groups. > >> > > >> > If there were a special group, probably the only ones that would > >> join are > >> > those who already "get it" anyway. > >> > > >> > This way, the notion reaches (or reminds) those who may be oblivious > >> about > >> > this before they themselves head off to oblivion. > >> > > >> > Chuck Kinzer > >> > > >> > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > >> <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com>, Walter Bayer II <bayerw2@> > >> wrote: > >> >> > >> >> Call it Vintage HOer's? > >> >> > >> >> On Tue, Mar 8, 2011 at 6:13 PM, Matthew <mattjcoleman@> wrote: > >> >> > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > I know that not everyone liked this discussion, but having passed > >> the > >> >> > big > >> >> > "six oh" a while back, I have started to ponder this subject more > >> >> > often. I > >> >> > am certainly not the guy, but would there be a critical mass of us > >> >> > older > >> >> > collectors who might be interested in a group that could discuss, as > >> >> > needed, > >> >> > thoughts on estate planning for large model railroad collections? > >> >> > > >> >> > Just a thought. Sorry to interrupt the flow of the discussion. > >> >> > > >> >> > Matt Coleman > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> -- > >> >> Regards, > >> >> Walter > >> >> > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > ------------------------------------ > >> > > >> > Yahoo! Groups Links > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > >> > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16279	From: Matthew	Date: 3/9/2011
Subject: Re: Should we start a new group for Model RR Estate discussions

Don, It was Carl Arendt who just passed away. And thanks to all for the thoughts and comments on the estate planning group issue. I agree, probably best to just let it surface from time to time on this group since it sounds like we all understand. Matt Coleman --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > We do have another moderator here should my fast track lifestyle catch up > with me (yeah sure!). > > The idea about websites is true, there's a great (and I can't think of the > name) website devoted just to very small layouts that's going through that > right now. > > Don

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16280	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 3/9/2011
Subject: Re: Should we start a new group for Model RR Estate discussions

Well stated Don!   I know I have amassed some great pieces of my own and have just been too busy to sit down and tabulate what I have and what tey are worth. This topic has been a good reminder to do that and being centered around collecting vintage HO, I think it falls right in line with this groups objectives....At least it does for me.   I think Jim H has a good method we could all use to follow... He has all his items of value displayed & labeled with maker and value. In addition, he has made his family aware of what they are worth.   I think for me.. I intend to make my kids aware of what I am leaving them and what they are worth. I will, hopefully by then have a detailed list of everything, with pictures and descriptions. They have already seen how lucrative selling of HO trains on sites like eBay (or the like) is. I think I may just leave it up to them if they would like to part out my collection that way and maximize their return. Ultimately, I want the money to go to them and I want the pieces to go to a good home.   Personally, I think that auction houses are way over priced, but then again, my collection is only worth peanuts compared to some out there...   Sean   1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! From: Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, March 8, 2011 7:00:10 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Should we start a new group for Model RR Estate discussions   Just because you're young doesn't mean it isn't something you don't have to concern yourself with. I've seen at least two VERY extensive collections of HO and one amazing collection of 1:25 scale promotional automobile models disappear without a trace when the owners (in all 3 cases unmarried with no heirs) died in their 40's. I haven't said anything about this thread, because as collectors, I think the disposal of collections IS to a degree on topic, it's something that will rear it's ugly head for all of us sooner or later. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles" <ckinzer@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2011 5:12 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Should we start a new group for Model RR Estate discussions >I suspect it is better to just have it come up as a topic from time to time >on regular groups. > > If there were a special group, probably the only ones that would join are > those who already "get it" anyway. > > This way, the notion reaches (or reminds) those who may be oblivious about > this before they themselves head off to oblivion. > > Chuck Kinzer > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Walter Bayer II <bayerw2@...> wrote: >> >> Call it Vintage HOer's? >> >> On Tue, Mar 8, 2011 at 6:13 PM, Matthew <mattjcoleman@...> wrote: >> >> > >> > >> > I know that not everyone liked this discussion, but having passed the >> > big >> > "six oh" a while back, I have started to ponder this subject more >> > often. I >> > am certainly not the guy, but would there be a critical mass of us >> > older >> > collectors who might be interested in a group that could discuss, as >> > needed, >> > thoughts on estate planning for large model railroad collections? >> > >> > Just a thought. Sorry to interrupt the flow of the discussion. >> > >> > Matt Coleman >> > >> > >> > >> >> >> >> -- >> Regards, >> Walter >> > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16281	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 3/9/2011
Subject: Re: Should we start a new group for Model RR Estate discussions

Gentlemen, It appears that I started something when I replied to Jim's somewhat rhetorical question as to whether his collection is too large--in response to his wife's comments-- and showed us some photos of it. The main thrust of my comments at the time was to consider the problems of those "left behind" who have to deal with disposing of whatever you collect--vintage HO, household items, furniture, antique knitting needles, whatever. The fact that you may carefully label your items and give them a value may have little to do with the actual outcome and difficulty (and it will be a difficulty) of unloading all your stuff. What will truly affect the destiny of the items and value is not so much the value you perceive them to have as the value they will have to whomever has to locate an acceptable buyer and possibly prepare the lot for sale or disposal in some other way. Even if you think you have someone foaming at the mouth and eagerly awaiting your demise in order to get their hands on your stuff the best you can really ever do is identify the items, indicate how much money you originally paid for all those things, and hope it all doesn't get dumped for pennies on the dollar (or worse) by perhaps a loving person who feels guilty about it but has other more pressing things to do with their life at the time (although the more you value it, the more guilt they will feel of course). In any case they won't be happy to have the responsibility dumped in their lap. You'd be surprised at the anger that will be part of the emotions your passing will bring! I know of what I speak, but what the hell, you won't know anything about it anyway!   So endeth the lesson for today. Perhaps it's time--as someone indicated-- to move on to more pleasant things. . . .   Art W   In a message dated 3/9/2011 10:57:07 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, a69mustang4me@... writes: Well stated Don!   I know I have amassed some great pieces of my own and have just been too busy to sit down and tabulate what I have and what tey are worth. This topic has been a good reminder to do that and being centered around collecting vintage HO, I think it falls right in line with this groups objectives....At least it does for me.   I think Jim H has a good method we could all use to follow... He has all his items of value displayed & labeled with maker and value. In addition, he has made his family aware of what they are worth.   I think for me.. I intend to make my kids aware of what I am leaving them and what they are worth. I will, hopefully by then have a detailed list of everything, with pictures and descriptions. They have already seen how lucrative selling of HO trains on sites like eBay (or the like) is. I think I may just leave it up to them if they would like to part out my collection that way and maximize their return. Ultimately, I want the money to go to them and I want the pieces to go to a good home.   Personally, I think that auction houses are way over priced, but then again, my collection is only worth peanuts compared to some out there...   Sean   1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! From: Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, March 8, 2011 7:00:10 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Should we start a new group for Model RR Estate discussions   Just because you're young doesn't mean it isn't something you don't have to concern yourself with. I've seen at least two VERY extensive collections of HO and one amazing collection of 1:25 scale promotional automobile models disappear without a trace when the owners (in all 3 cases unmarried with no heirs) died in their 40's. I haven't said anything about this thread, because as collectors, I think the disposal of collections IS to a degree on topic, it's something that will rear it's ugly head for all of us sooner or later. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles" <ckinzer@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2011 5:12 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Should we start a new group for Model RR Estate discussions >I suspect it is better to just have it come up as a topic from time to time >on regular groups. > > If there were a special group, probably the only ones that would join are > those who already "get it" anyway. > > This way, the notion reaches (or reminds) those who may be oblivious about > this before they themselves head off to oblivion. > > Chuck Kinzer > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Walter Bayer II <bayerw2@...> wrote: >> >> Call it Vintage HOer's? >> >> On Tue, Mar 8, 2011 at 6:13 PM, Matthew <mattjcoleman@...> wrote: >> >> > >> > >> > I know that not everyone liked this discussion, but having passed the >> > big >> > "six oh" a while back, I have started to ponder this subject more >> > often. I >> > am certainly not the guy, but would there be a critical mass of us >> > older >> > collectors who might be interested in a group that could discuss, as >> > needed, >> > thoughts on estate planning for large model railroad collections? >> > >> > Just a thought. Sorry to interrupt the flow of the discussion. >> > >> > Matt Coleman >> > >> > >> > >> >> >> >> -- >> Regards, >> Walter >> > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16282	From: Glenn	Date: 3/9/2011
Subject: Re: Should we start a new group for Model RR Estate discussions

having things properly identified is important.  Wnen one friend passed away his family started stuffing  traiins in boxes that seemed logical.  A year or two later his son asked me to dispose of several brass locos—and asked me if there was anything I wanted.  I mentioned a  brass SP cab forwars that I had repaired –couldn’t find it anywhere—found the tender, and a Rivarossi cab forward-someone got a real deal at the Coast Div Auction in the Rivarossi box!~  gj   From: luvprr@... Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 10:34 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Should we start a new group for Model RR Estate discussions   Gentlemen, It appears that I started something when I replied to Jim's somewhat rhetorical question as to whether his collection is too large--in response to his wife's comments-- and showed us some photos of it. The main thrust of my comments at the time was to consider the problems of those "left behind" who have to deal with disposing of whatever you collect--vintage HO, household items, furniture, antique knitting needles, whatever. The fact that you may carefully label your items and give them a value may have little to do with the actual outcome and difficulty (and it will be a difficulty) of unloading all your stuff. What will truly affect the destiny of the items and value is not so much the value you perceive them to have as the value they will have to whomever has to locate an acceptable buyer and possibly prepare the lot for sale or disposal in some other way. Even if you think you have someone foaming at the mouth and eagerly awaiting your demise in order to get their hands on your stuff the best you can really ever do is identify the items, indicate how much money you originally paid for all those things, and hope it all doesn't get dumped for pennies on the dollar (or worse) by perhaps a loving person who feels guilty about it but has other more pressing things to do with their life at the time (although the more you value it, the more guilt they will feel of course). In any case they won't be happy to have the responsibility dumped in their lap. You'd be surprised at the anger that will be part of the emotions your passing will bring! I know of what I speak, but what the hell, you won't know anything about it anyway!   So endeth the lesson for today. Perhaps it's time--as someone indicated-- to move on to more pleasant things. . . .   Art W   In a message dated 3/9/2011 10:57:07 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, a69mustang4me@... writes: Well stated Don!   I know I have amassed some great pieces of my own and have just been too busy to sit down and tabulate what I have and what tey are worth. This topic has been a good reminder to do that and being centered around collecting vintage HO, I think it falls right in line with this groups objectives....At least it does for me.   I think Jim H has a good method we could all use to follow... He has all his items of value displayed & labeled with maker and value. In addition, he has made his family aware of what they are worth.   I think for me.. I intend to make my kids aware of what I am leaving them and what they are worth. I will, hopefully by then have a detailed list of everything, with pictures and descriptions. They have already seen how lucrative selling of HO trains on sites like eBay (or the like) is. I think I may just leave it up to them if they would like to part out my collection that way and maximize their return. Ultimately, I want the money to go to them and I want the pieces to go to a good home.   Personally, I think that auction houses are way over priced, but then again, my collection is only worth peanuts compared to some out there...   Sean   1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule!     From: Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, March 8, 2011 7:00:10 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Should we start a new group for Model RR Estate discussions   Just because you're young doesn't mean it isn't something you don't have to concern yourself with. I've seen at least two VERY extensive collections of HO and one amazing collection of 1:25 scale promotional automobile models disappear without a trace when the owners (in all 3 cases unmarried with no heirs) died in their 40's. I haven't said anything about this thread, because as collectors, I think the disposal of collections IS to a degree on topic, it's something that will rear it's ugly head for all of us sooner or later. Don Don Dellmann mailto:don.dellmann%40prodigy.net http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles" <mailto:ckinzer%40att.net> To: <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2011 5:12 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Should we start a new group for Model RR Estate discussions >I suspect it is better to just have it come up as a topic from time to time >on regular groups. > > If there were a special group, probably the only ones that would join are > those who already "get it" anyway. > > This way, the notion reaches (or reminds) those who may be oblivious about > this before they themselves head off to oblivion. > > Chuck Kinzer > > --- In mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com, Walter Bayer II <bayerw2@...> wrote: >> >> Call it Vintage HOer's? >> >> On Tue, Mar 8, 2011 at 6:13 PM, Matthew <mattjcoleman@...> wrote: >> >> > >> > >> > I know that not everyone liked this discussion, but having passed the >> > big >> > "six oh" a while back, I have started to ponder this subject more >> > often. I >> > am certainly not the guy, but would there be a critical mass of us >> > older >> > collectors who might be interested in a group that could discuss, as >> > needed, >> > thoughts on estate planning for large model railroad collections? >> > >> > Just a thought. Sorry to interrupt the flow of the discussion. >> > >> > Matt Coleman >> > >> > >> > >> >> >> >> -- >> Regards, >> Walter >> > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16283	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 3/9/2011
Subject: Ident

Picked up a handful of cars today. Mantua reefer, easy. Athearn SWIFT reefer (metal), easy. But, got two wood GN outside-braced boxcars, with an odd door arrangement. The doors are one normal door, and one half door per side. The roof appears to be three sections, also, about evenly spaced. I have no idea where to start looking. Trying to find the camera.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16284	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/9/2011
Subject: Re: Ident

----- Original Message ----- From: "trainsnwrcs" <idioticyahoo@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 9:45 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Ident > Picked up a handful of cars today. > Mantua reefer, easy. Athearn SWIFT reefer (metal), easy. > But, got two wood GN outside-braced boxcars, with an odd door arrangement. > The doors are one normal door, and one half door per side. > The roof appears to be three sections, also, about evenly spaced. > I have no idea where to start looking. > > Trying to find the camera. Sounds like the Mainline 1 1/2 door auto car; Upper left hand corner of the page http://www.hoseeker.org/mainlineinformation/mainlinelist1966pg1.jpg; Mainline apparently used their standard outside braced boxcar sheet with a special supplement for the 50' car that shows the "3 piece" roof if that's what you're tiling about. http://www.hoseeker.org/mainlineinstructions/mainlineobboxcarpg1.jpg http://www.hoseeker.org/mainlineinstructions/mainlineobboxcarpg2.jpg http://www.hoseeker.org/mainlineinstructions/mainline50aurtoboxsupplement.jpgDonDon Dellmanndon.dellmann@...://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTractionOwnerhttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHOhttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16285	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/9/2011
Subject: Fw: [vintageHO] Ident

Outlook express mooshed the last link together with my signature, let's try again. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 12:55 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Ident > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "trainsnwrcs" <idioticyahoo@...> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 9:45 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Ident > > >> Picked up a handful of cars today. >> Mantua reefer, easy. Athearn SWIFT reefer (metal), easy. >> But, got two wood GN outside-braced boxcars, with an odd door >> arrangement. >> The doors are one normal door, and one half door per side. >> The roof appears to be three sections, also, about evenly spaced. >> I have no idea where to start looking. >> >> Trying to find the camera. > > Sounds like the Mainline 1 1/2 door auto car; Upper left hand corner of > the > page > http://www.hoseeker.org/mainlineinformation/mainlinelist1966pg1.jpg; > > Mainline apparently used their standard outside braced boxcar sheet with a > special supplement for the 50' car that shows the "3 piece" roof if that's > what you're tiling about. > > http://www.hoseeker.org/mainlineinstructions/mainlineobboxcarpg1.jpg > http://www.hoseeker.org/mainlineinstructions/mainlineobboxcarpg2.jpg > http://www.hoseeker.org/mainlineinstructions/mainline50aurtoboxsupplement.jpg Don don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTractionOwner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16286	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 3/10/2011
Subject: Re: Ident

Close. Closer than anything else, that's for sure. The roof is wrong, though. The top is three pieces, but while the Mainline is split along the roofwalk, this one is made up of three full roof sections, you can see the parting line next to roof ribs at the outere edges of the door. I am beginning to think "scratchbuilt". > > > Picked up a handful of cars today. > > Mantua reefer, easy. Athearn SWIFT reefer (metal), easy. > > But, got two wood GN outside-braced boxcars, with an odd door arrangement. > > The doors are one normal door, and one half door per side. > > The roof appears to be three sections, also, about evenly spaced. > > I have no idea where to start looking. > > > > Trying to find the camera. > > Sounds like the Mainline 1 1/2 door auto car; Upper left hand corner of the > page > http://www.hoseeker.org/mainlineinformation/mainlinelist1966pg1.jpg; > > Mainline apparently used their standard outside braced boxcar sheet with a > special supplement for the 50' car that shows the "3 piece" roof if that's > what you're tiling about. > > http://www.hoseeker.org/mainlineinstructions/mainlineobboxcarpg1.jpg > http://www.hoseeker.org/mainlineinstructions/mainlineobboxcarpg2.jpg > http://www.hoseeker.org/mainlineinstructions/mainline50aurtoboxsupplement.jpgDonDon Dellmanndon.dellmann@...://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTractionOwnerhttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHOhttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16287	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 3/10/2011
Subject: Parts

I need a couple of Athearn metal kit parts. Just two. One is an end for a Swift Reefer A-409. Have one missing. The other is an end platform (one) for a boxcar, A-125, or just an A-120 series. Thanks. Dave

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16288	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 3/11/2011
Subject: Re: Ident

Dave, While I don't know how the roof was constructed, Northeastern Scale Models, Inc. produced a 50' outside braced 1 1/2 door auto box car -- their catalog number -- #B - 3 (early ' 70's). It came with Southern RR decals, but your modeler could have used any decals in place of these (if your car is decalled). Walthers' catalog number was #(520) 203 (later '70's). Ray F.W.</HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16289	From: Richard White	Date: 3/11/2011
Subject: Re: Ident

Guys- On the subject of 50-ft. door-and-a-half boxcars: around 1964 I bought from my LHS a ready-made, painted, (I don't remember if it was lettered) boxcar of that type, minus trucks and couplers. It was of all-wood construction, similar to an Ambroid or Northeastern model, and it was very well made.  I seem to recall that this line of cars was reviewed in Model Railroader and that they were assembled by physically or mentally disabled persons. Does anyone recall these cars?  Regards- Richard White    To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: erieberk@... Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2011 08:21:23 -0500 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Ident   Dave, While I don't know how the roof was constructed, Northeastern Scale Models, Inc. produced a 50' outside braced 1 1/2 door auto box car -- their catalog number -- #B - 3 (early ' 70's). It came with Southern RR decals, but your modeler could have used any decals in place of these (if your car is decalled). Walthers' catalog number was #(520) 203 (later '70's). Ray F.W.</HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16290	From: scrimjimmy	Date: 3/11/2011
Subject: 16th ANNUAL MODEL TRAIN SHOW & SWAP MEET MARCH 13th CEDARBURG, WI

Just a reminder that the METRO Model Railroad Club's 16TH annual railroad show and swap meet is on Sunday, March 13th at Circle B Recreation on Highway 60 in Cedarburg, WI. The show will run from 9 a.m. to 4 p.m. All of the common scales of model railroading will be represented. A returning favorite layout this year is the Cream City Traction HO scale layout from Milwaukee, WI. This layout features a city scene of the 50's with various trolleys running down the streets. Among the participants is the WIZ KidZ, who will be bringing Z scale trains. These are models so small that a layout can be built in a cigar box. The Kettle Moraine Ballast Scorchers club of West Bend, WI will bring their popular N scale layout that drew a lot of attention in past years year. It features various scenes of small town America with various eye catching scenes such as a train derailment and interesting industries served by railroads. METRO will be bringing back its own HO layout that has twice been judged best in the nation at the National Train Show. It has many animations and numerous (and humorous) details designed to delight children of all ages. The Lakeshore O-Scale Railroaders will be bringing a Lionel layout to the show and permitting anyone to run the locomotives, including Thomas the Tank Engine, around the tracks. Kids can also fire missiles from train cars, unload barrels and milk cans, and enjoy seeing in small scale some of their favorite movie and TV characters. The Badgerland S Gauger's showing the classic American Flyer scale trains as well as new S-scale trains that are currently available. The West Bend, Jackson and Southern will showing examples of some #1 scale trains, which are large enough to actually ride on. Dave Gehrke will also have an operating G scale train layout on display. In addition, more than 50 tables of dealers and swappers will be on hand to buy, sell and trade model railroad equipment, both new and used. Some notable dealers are Don Manlick of DM Custom Decals who will be selling his GB&W, C&NW and other decals, Cannonball Models of Madison that specializes in N scale, Sandy's Trains, Setco Trains, as well as many other dealers. The many club members and dealers on hand will be able to help modelers young and old with layout design, problem solving, and scenic hints. Attendees can sign up for door prizes which include railroading books and one year subscriptions to Kalmbach Publishing's magazine Model Railroader. This is the 16th consecutive year for the show, which has become the largest in southeast Wisconsin after Milwaukee's Trainfest. This show is held every March. Membership in all of the clubs showing is open; attendees can talk to club members at the show for membership details. METRO can also be found on the web at www.metrorrclub.org. Admission is by a $3 donation for adults; as always, children under 12 are admitted free when accompanied by an adult. Commercial sponsors of this year's show include Ohana Ambulance, Kalmbach Publishing, and Tires Unlimited Automotive Services. Any questions that you might have about the show, please feel free to contact me either by phone or email as listed below. Thank you for your time and any assistance James Bartelt Show Chairman 262-284-5876 jimbartelt@... www.metrorrclub.org

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16291	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/11/2011
Subject: Re: Ident

Sounds like possibly "Pacific Traction" ? (doing this from memory). Would have been early 1960's as I recall. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard White" <toytrain13@...> To: "Jim Heckard" <vintageho@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, March 11, 2011 6:09 PM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Ident Guys- On the subject of 50-ft. door-and-a-half boxcars: around 1964 I bought from my LHS a ready-made, painted, (I don't remember if it was lettered) boxcar of that type, minus trucks and couplers. It was of all-wood construction, similar to an Ambroid or Northeastern model, and it was very well made. I seem to recall that this line of cars was reviewed in Model Railroader and that they were assembled by physically or mentally disabled persons. Does anyone recall these cars? Regards- Richard White

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16292	From: Ed	Date: 3/12/2011
Subject: Valuing your train stuff.

Just do this: Make up some tags or simple slips of paper like this: Take you 10 minutes to make up a one page form with maybe 8 or 10 tags aligned on it. 10 minutes to print a dozen copies , cut them with your scissors and stack them in a little container on your work bench along with a pen/pencil. whatzit?: Cost:$ Sell for: $ (initials/date optional) Anytime you open a storage box, take a model off your display or buy something new write something, anything, on a tag and stick it in the box or under the model. Tell the family and close friends what you're doing. In a year you'll be so far into it that whoever has to pick up the pieces after you will have a lot easier time of it. For the stuff that lives on the layout, take pics, print them out and write the info on them. Do the same with your tools, loose parts collections and materials stashes. If you have a flatbed copier (to me a must have for model builders) stack a whole pile of boxes, especially kits you don't want to open, together on it with the labeled end down and hit the copy button. Write the same stuff as the tags on it, make another copy and stick it with your will or safe deposit box or a copy in each. Look, you can plan to be far more thorough than this in organizing all of your train stuff. But I guarantee that if you don't get well into your grand plan this month you likely never will. And you can always implement that plan later if you don't die first or end up in the hospital with bigger things to deal with. Me, I'm making my labels tonight. My wife will be delighted. So will my son who though he is a bright mechanical engineer is not into model trains. But he will have to learn a lot real fast when I can't help. Ed Weldon

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16293	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 3/13/2011
Subject: Re: Valuing your train stuff.

My wife's solution: Sell it ALL on eBay: Buy-It-Now for $1....You haul it away! Sean   1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! From: Ed <23.weldon@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, March 12, 2011 11:46:22 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Valuing your train stuff.   Just do this: Make up some tags or simple slips of paper like this: Take you 10 minutes to make up a one page form with maybe 8 or 10 tags aligned on it. 10 minutes to print a dozen copies , cut them with your scissors and stack them in a little container on your work bench along with a pen/pencil. whatzit?: Cost:$ Sell for: $ (initials/date optional) Anytime you open a storage box, take a model off your display or buy something new write something, anything, on a tag and stick it in the box or under the model. Tell the family and close friends what you're doing. In a year you'll be so far into it that whoever has to pick up the pieces after you will have a lot easier time of it. For the stuff that lives on the layout, take pics, print them out and write the info on them. Do the same with your tools, loose parts collections and materials stashes. If you have a flatbed copier (to me a must have for model builders) stack a whole pile of boxes, especially kits you don't want to open, together on it with the labeled end down and hit the copy button. Write the same stuff as the tags on it, make another copy and stick it with your will or safe deposit box or a copy in each. Look, you can plan to be far more thorough than this in organizing all of your train stuff. But I guarantee that if you don't get well into your grand plan this month you likely never will. And you can always implement that plan later if you don't die first or end up in the hospital with bigger things to deal with. Me, I'm making my labels tonight. My wife will be delighted. So will my son who though he is a bright mechanical engineer is not into model trains. But he will have to learn a lot real fast when I can't help. Ed Weldon

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16294	From: Chris B	Date: 3/13/2011
Subject: Re: Valuing your train stuff.

Sean! You forgot to post the link! At least post us the item number! --- Btw, how many pallets will it take, and how much for shipping? ---or is that included in the $1 Buy it Now Price??? (G) Chris B. From: Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> Sender: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2011 09:16:25 -0700 (PDT) To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> ReplyTo: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Valuing your train stuff.   My wife's solution: Sell it ALL on eBay: Buy-It-Now for $1....You haul it away! Sean   1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! From: Ed <23.weldon@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, March 12, 2011 11:46:22 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Valuing your train stuff.   Just do this: Make up some tags or simple slips of paper like this: Take you 10 minutes to make up a one page form with maybe 8 or 10 tags aligned on it. 10 minutes to print a dozen copies , cut them with your scissors and stack them in a little container on your work bench along with a pen/pencil. whatzit?: Cost:$ Sell for: $ (initials/date optional) Anytime you open a storage box, take a model off your display or buy something new write something, anything, on a tag and stick it in the box or under the model. Tell the family and close friends what you're doing. In a year you'll be so far into it that whoever has to pick up the pieces after you will have a lot easier time of it. For the stuff that lives on the layout, take pics, print them out and write the info on them. Do the same with your tools, loose parts collections and materials stashes. If you have a flatbed copier (to me a must have for model builders) stack a whole pile of boxes, especially kits you don't want to open, together on it with the labeled end down and hit the copy button. Write the same stuff as the tags on it, make another copy and stick it with your will or safe deposit box or a copy in each. Look, you can plan to be far more thorough than this in organizing all of your train stuff. But I guarantee that if you don't get well into your grand plan this month you likely never will. And you can always implement that plan later if you don't die first or end up in the hospital with bigger things to deal with. Me, I'm making my labels tonight. My wife will be delighted. So will my son who though he is a bright mechanical engineer is not into model trains. But he will have to learn a lot real fast when I can't help. Ed Weldon

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16295	From: Rick Jones	Date: 3/13/2011
Subject: Re: Valuing your train stuff.

On 3/13/2011 11:16 AM, Sean Naylor wrote: > > > My wife's solution: > > Sell it ALL on eBay: > > Buy-It-Now for $1....You haul it away! Personally I'm leaning heavily toward leaving it to the NMRA's Howell Day Museum. Anything of interest for use in the museum they can keep, the rest can be auctioned at NMRA events for the benefit of the museum or NMRA. -- Rick Jones "I have studied many philosophers and many cats. The wisdom of cats is infinitely superior." - Hippolyte Taine

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16296	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 3/13/2011
Subject: Fwd: [NYC-Modeler] Fw: 2011 GLMRS location photos [6 Attachments]

Attachments : For anyone interested in RR modeling. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Jim Six <jamessix@...> Date: Sun, Mar 13, 2011 at 5:13 PM Subject: [NYC-Modeler] Fw: 2011 GLMRS location photos [6 Attachments] To: RPM-forum@yahoogroups.com, NMRA_Michiana_Division@yahoogroups.com, CHESSIEmodeler@yahoogroups.com, NICKELPLATEROADmodeler@yahoogroups.com, conrailmodeler@yahoogroups.com, NYC-Modeler@yahoogroups.com   [Attachment(s) from Jim Six included below]   Many people have contacted us with questions about the location of the 2011 GLMRS. The 2011 GLMRS will be held at the National New York Central RR Museum in downtown Elkhart. Attached are five photos provided by Jason Powers that show what the museum is like and its general location.   As you can see, the former NYC mainline, now Norfolk Southern, runs right alongside the museum. Directly across the tracks is the Amtrak station. The downtown is right there.   The 2011 GLMRS will be held in the museum and in the Amtrak station, which is part of the city-owned museum. We have the entire upper level of the station along with the entire museum. Lots of room. Lots of great things to do and see, and a very large number of trains to watch and photograph. The museum and Amtrak depot are right at the east end of the large NS Elkhart Yard.   We hope you will mark the weekend of April 15th and 16th on your calendar and come on out to Elkhart and enjoy a great weekend of model railroading, learning, sharing, train watching, and photography.                             -- Regards, Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16297	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 3/14/2011
Subject: Re: Valuing your train stuff.

Chris,   Obviously, since I am able to reply, it means I am still kicking... Therefore, no such listing has been posted...yet. My hunch is, she will give NO warning of the listing either... I would say ~4-5 pallets or more, however my wife would want YOU to haul it away and not be bothered with touching any of them herself...   Sean   1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! From: Chris B <chrisb_acw_rr@...> To: Vint Ho <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sun, March 13, 2011 12:37:52 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Valuing your train stuff.   Sean! You forgot to post the link! At least post us the item number! --- Btw, how many pallets will it take, and how much for shipping? ---or is that included in the $1 Buy it Now Price??? (G) Chris B. From: Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> Sender: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2011 09:16:25 -0700 (PDT) To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> ReplyTo: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Valuing your train stuff.   My wife's solution: Sell it ALL on eBay: Buy-It-Now for $1....You haul it away! Sean   1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! From: Ed <23.weldon@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, March 12, 2011 11:46:22 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Valuing your train stuff.   Just do this: Make up some tags or simple slips of paper like this: Take you 10 minutes to make up a one page form with maybe 8 or 10 tags aligned on it. 10 minutes to print a dozen copies , cut them with your scissors and stack them in a little container on your work bench along with a pen/pencil. whatzit?: Cost:$ Sell for: $ (initials/date optional) Anytime you open a storage box, take a model off your display or buy something new write something, anything, on a tag and stick it in the box or under the model. Tell the family and close friends what you're doing. In a year you'll be so far into it that whoever has to pick up the pieces after you will have a lot easier time of it. For the stuff that lives on the layout, take pics, print them out and write the info on them. Do the same with your tools, loose parts collections and materials stashes. If you have a flatbed copier (to me a must have for model builders) stack a whole pile of boxes, especially kits you don't want to open, together on it with the labeled end down and hit the copy button. Write the same stuff as the tags on it, make another copy and stick it with your will or safe deposit box or a copy in each. Look, you can plan to be far more thorough than this in organizing all of your train stuff. But I guarantee that if you don't get well into your grand plan this month you likely never will. And you can always implement that plan later if you don't die first or end up in the hospital with bigger things to deal with. Me, I'm making my labels tonight. My wife will be delighted. So will my son who though he is a bright mechanical engineer is not into model trains. But he will have to learn a lot real fast when I can't help. Ed Weldon

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16298	From: jbark76	Date: 3/14/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers OO Cars?

I am starting a new layout with one loop of OO at the base, then it will be primarily HO. What are you using for an engine for the OO cars? The American Flyer diecast flat car looks convincing to me for OO. I have thought about shortening it a bit to make it 40' in OO. (It's a 50' HO car.) I'm also thinking about making new sides for it, but the deck is just as wide as a Scalecraft flatcar. What are you doing with the OO trucks? -Jeff Barker-

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16299	From: Chris B	Date: 3/14/2011
Subject: Re: Valuing your train stuff.

Sean, I'm assuming all knew I spoke in jest, but I am glad to hear it was to be a posthumous posting;  she probably knows that even if you sold all five pallets tomorrow, it wouldn't be six months before that space was all filled up again, with vintage parts and engines labeled Varney and Ford! Chris B. From: Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, March 14, 2011 9:14:00 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Valuing your train stuff.   Chris,   Obviously, since I am able to reply, it means I am still kicking... Therefore, no such listing has been posted...yet. My hunch is, she will give NO warning of the listing either... I would say ~4-5 pallets or more, however my wife would want YOU to haul it away and not be bothered with touching any of them herself...   Sean   1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! From: Chris B <chrisb_acw_rr@...> To: Vint Ho <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sun, March 13, 2011 12:37:52 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Valuing your train stuff.   Sean! You forgot to post the link! At least post us the item number! --- Btw, how many pallets will it take, and how much for shipping? ---or is that included in the $1 Buy it Now Price??? (G) Chris B. From: Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> Sender: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2011 09:16:25 -0700 (PDT) To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> ReplyTo: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Valuing your train stuff.   My wife's solution: Sell it ALL on eBay: Buy-It-Now for $1....You haul it away! Sean   1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! From: Ed <23.weldon@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, March 12, 2011 11:46:22 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Valuing your train stuff.   Just do this: Make up some tags or simple slips of paper like this: Take you 10 minutes to make up a one page form with maybe 8 or 10 tags aligned on it. 10 minutes to print a dozen copies , cut them with your scissors and stack them in a little container on your work bench along with a pen/pencil. whatzit?: Cost:$ Sell for: $ (initials/date optional) Anytime you open a storage box, take a model off your display or buy something new write something, anything, on a tag and stick it in the box or under the model. Tell the family and close friends what you're doing. In a year you'll be so far into it that whoever has to pick up the pieces after you will have a lot easier time of it. For the stuff that lives on the layout, take pics, print them out and write the info on them. Do the same with your tools, loose parts collections and materials stashes. If you have a flatbed copier (to me a must have for model builders) stack a whole pile of boxes, especially kits you don't want to open, together on it with the labeled end down and hit the copy button. Write the same stuff as the tags on it, make another copy and stick it with your will or safe deposit box or a copy in each. Look, you can plan to be far more thorough than this in organizing all of your train stuff. But I guarantee that if you don't get well into your grand plan this month you likely never will. And you can always implement that plan later if you don't die first or end up in the hospital with bigger things to deal with. Me, I'm making my labels tonight. My wife will be delighted. So will my son who though he is a bright mechanical engineer is not into model trains. But he will have to learn a lot real fast when I can't help. Ed Weldon

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16300	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 3/14/2011
Subject: Re: Valuing your train stuff.

Chris,   I knew you bere speaking in jest..  she, on the other hand I think is serious...   She said to me just yesterday...   "You acumulate more %#@! (aka crap) faster than anyone I know"... as she stood there watching me sort trough a treasure trove of old trains, getting some ready to list. Right after i told her about a house auction I plan to got to soon..   I replied back.. "It's just trains...nothing else."   She replied.. "Like I said.. %#@!" (aka crap) and then she gave me a kiss and a hug and went upstairs.   I think I could have that space filled back up in ~2 weeks. or less.. I have a 67 Mustang waiting to be restored and right now it is in storage. As soon as that space opens up, it is coming home!   Sean     1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! From: Chris B <chrisb_acw_rr@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, March 14, 2011 9:23:02 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Valuing your train stuff.   Sean, I'm assuming all knew I spoke in jest, but I am glad to hear it was to be a posthumous posting;  she probably knows that even if you sold all five pallets tomorrow, it wouldn't be six months before that space was all filled up again, with vintage parts and engines labeled Varney and Ford! Chris B. From: Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, March 14, 2011 9:14:00 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Valuing your train stuff.   Chris,   Obviously, since I am able to reply, it means I am still kicking... Therefore, no such listing has been posted...yet. My hunch is, she will give NO warning of the listing either... I would say ~4-5 pallets or more, however my wife would want YOU to haul it away and not be bothered with touching any of them herself...   Sean   1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! From: Chris B <chrisb_acw_rr@...> To: Vint Ho <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sun, March 13, 2011 12:37:52 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Valuing your train stuff.   Sean! You forgot to post the link! At least post us the item number! --- Btw, how many pallets will it take, and how much for shipping? ---or is that included in the $1 Buy it Now Price??? (G) Chris B. From: Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> Sender: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2011 09:16:25 -0700 (PDT) To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> ReplyTo: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Valuing your train stuff.   My wife's solution: Sell it ALL on eBay: Buy-It-Now for $1....You haul it away! Sean   1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! From: Ed <23.weldon@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, March 12, 2011 11:46:22 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Valuing your train stuff.   Just do this: Make up some tags or simple slips of paper like this: Take you 10 minutes to make up a one page form with maybe 8 or 10 tags aligned on it. 10 minutes to print a dozen copies , cut them with your scissors and stack them in a little container on your work bench along with a pen/pencil. whatzit?: Cost:$ Sell for: $ (initials/date optional) Anytime you open a storage box, take a model off your display or buy something new write something, anything, on a tag and stick it in the box or under the model. Tell the family and close friends what you're doing. In a year you'll be so far into it that whoever has to pick up the pieces after you will have a lot easier time of it. For the stuff that lives on the layout, take pics, print them out and write the info on them. Do the same with your tools, loose parts collections and materials stashes. If you have a flatbed copier (to me a must have for model builders) stack a whole pile of boxes, especially kits you don't want to open, together on it with the labeled end down and hit the copy button. Write the same stuff as the tags on it, make another copy and stick it with your will or safe deposit box or a copy in each. Look, you can plan to be far more thorough than this in organizing all of your train stuff. But I guarantee that if you don't get well into your grand plan this month you likely never will. And you can always implement that plan later if you don't die first or end up in the hospital with bigger things to deal with. Me, I'm making my labels tonight. My wife will be delighted. So will my son who though he is a bright mechanical engineer is not into model trains. But he will have to learn a lot real fast when I can't help. Ed Weldon

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16301	From: Chris B	Date: 3/14/2011
Subject: Re: Valuing your train stuff.

She sounds great Sean, you're a lucky guy! I'm similarly blessed, in that I've got more old metal trains and new metal fabrication tools than I ever dreamed would fit in this basement! I can say though, I was only a few years single and was living in the city in DC when we met, so I'd temporarily given up the "have multiple old small power boats down at my folk's place on the bay" hobby; and I'd also temporarily had to sell the "antique GMC pickup(s)" hobby; but my small apt was one big layout! So she's been accepting of the trains since the beginning, but it was pretty clear when we got married and I moved into her small great house in North Arlington, that I could have all the trains and tools that would fit into the basement; but in return....I would only have access to rental powerboats, and I could watch all the Mecum and Barret Jackson antique and muscle car auctions I wanted!!! It's worth it though, I had old cars and trucks and boats my whole life before, and the whole time I wanted a layout and never had time for one. Now I finally have time, AND a layout, so for me it's a great trade off! Chris B. From: Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> Sender: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2011 12:56:32 -0700 (PDT) To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> ReplyTo: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Valuing your train stuff.   Chris,   I knew you bere speaking in jest..  she, on the other hand I think is serious...   She said to me just yesterday...   "You acumulate more %#@! (aka crap) faster than anyone I know"... as she stood there watching me sort trough a treasure trove of old trains, getting some ready to list. Right after i told her about a house auction I plan to got to soon..   I replied back.. "It's just trains...nothing else."   She replied.. "Like I said.. %#@!" (aka crap) and then she gave me a kiss and a hug and went upstairs.   I think I could have that space filled back up in ~2 weeks. or less.. I have a 67 Mustang waiting to be restored and right now it is in storage. As soon as that space opens up, it is coming home!   Sean     1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! From: Chris B <chrisb_acw_rr@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, March 14, 2011 9:23:02 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Valuing your train stuff.   Sean, I'm assuming all knew I spoke in jest, but I am glad to hear it was to be a posthumous posting;  she probably knows that even if you sold all five pallets tomorrow, it wouldn't be six months before that space was all filled up again, with vintage parts and engines labeled Varney and Ford! Chris B. From: Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, March 14, 2011 9:14:00 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Valuing your train stuff.   Chris,   Obviously, since I am able to reply, it means I am still kicking... Therefore, no such listing has been posted...yet. My hunch is, she will give NO warning of the listing either... I would say ~4-5 pallets or more, however my wife would want YOU to haul it away and not be bothered with touching any of them herself...   Sean   1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! From: Chris B <chrisb_acw_rr@...> To: Vint Ho <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sun, March 13, 2011 12:37:52 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Valuing your train stuff.   Sean! You forgot to post the link! At least post us the item number! --- Btw, how many pallets will it take, and how much for shipping? ---or is that included in the $1 Buy it Now Price??? (G) Chris B. From: Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> Sender: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2011 09:16:25 -0700 (PDT) To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> ReplyTo: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Valuing your train stuff.   My wife's solution: Sell it ALL on eBay: Buy-It-Now for $1....You haul it away! Sean   1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! From: Ed <23.weldon@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, March 12, 2011 11:46:22 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Valuing your train stuff.   Just do this: Make up some tags or simple slips of paper like this: Take you 10 minutes to make up a one page form with maybe 8 or 10 tags aligned on it. 10 minutes to print a dozen copies , cut them with your scissors and stack them in a little container on your work bench along with a pen/pencil. whatzit?: Cost:$ Sell for: $ (initials/date optional) Anytime you open a storage box, take a model off your display or buy something new write something, anything, on a tag and stick it in the box or under the model. Tell the family and close friends what you're doing. In a year you'll be so far into it that whoever has to pick up the pieces after you will have a lot easier time of it. For the stuff that lives on the layout, take pics, print them out and write the info on them. Do the same with your tools, loose parts collections and materials stashes. If you have a flatbed copier (to me a must have for model builders) stack a whole pile of boxes, especially kits you don't want to open, together on it with the labeled end down and hit the copy button. Write the same stuff as the tags on it, make another copy and stick it with your will or safe deposit box or a copy in each. Look, you can plan to be far more thorough than this in organizing all of your train stuff. But I guarantee that if you don't get well into your grand plan this month you likely never will. And you can always implement that plan later if you don't die first or end up in the hospital with bigger things to deal with. Me, I'm making my labels tonight. My wife will be delighted. So will my son who though he is a bright mechanical engineer is not into model trains. But he will have to learn a lot real fast when I can't help. Ed Weldon

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16302	From: Glenn	Date: 3/14/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers OO Cars?

American OO is 4mm/ft--track is 19mm or 3/4 inch--same as On3. gj -----Original Message----- From: jbark76 Sent: Monday, March 14, 2011 6:17 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Walthers OO Cars? I am starting a new layout with one loop of OO at the base, then it will be primarily HO. What are you using for an engine for the OO cars? The American Flyer diecast flat car looks convincing to me for OO. I have thought about shortening it a bit to make it 40' in OO. (It's a 50' HO car.) I'm also thinking about making new sides for it, but the deck is just as wide as a Scalecraft flatcar. What are you doing with the OO trucks? -Jeff Barker- ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16303	From: jim heckard	Date: 3/15/2011
Subject: A winning bid

For a number of years I had been looking for the two original Winton Allegheny tender trucks. Well waiting paid off.  Go to item 180636794117     Brass HO tender / 6 & 8 wheel tender trucks.  I don't need the tender body but the set of original trucks are a big plus  It totally completes my original Winton Allegheny.     Shows how good a network I have searching. Friend Jeff Richards in CA finds them, calls me to tell me they are up for bid. I then contact another friend Bill Morrison / Penn Line expert from Boyertown PA who bids as I don't use Pay Pal. Bill then talks the seller into sending the item directly to me so it doesn't get shipped to Bill and then have to be reshipped ( extra money ) to me      It took a couple of years but I got the original trucks just as I am waiting to find the original valve gear for my Conover 1938 2-10-2-.                        Patience.                   Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16304	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 3/15/2011
Subject: tag sale finds

Attachments : mdcstock2.JPG eje01.JPG Hi Folks, I am attaching photos of what I picked up at a tag sale Saturday.  A friend and I got there about 10:00 am, because it was Saturday and I did not want to get up early and be there at 8:00 am.....and that the way it is.    Apparently 3 tables of train stuff got sold by the time we got there, but still, both of us ended up ok.  Both of us got a couple of decent vintage cars for $6.00 each, already equipped with decent trucks and Kadee couplers. I am not sure who made the EJ&E boxcar, but it was probably Varney, or Athearn.  It is stamped metal with a wood floor.  I removed the brake equipment and will later re-do it, because the original owner put that stuff together all wrong.  The rest of the car is pristine, with metal sprung trucks and metal wheels.  they wheels will need to be airbrushed to make them look better, but it is already track worthy, so into service it goes.  The MDC Southern stock car had a few paint chips, but PRR Tuscan came as close as any color.  With a bit of weathering, it will be just fine.  The plastic trucks are ok, but I will replace them with Tichy Bettendorf friction bearing trucks and P2K  wheelsets. Still and all it was a pretty decent hour on a Saturday morning. Regards, Vic Bitleris Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 16305	From: Peter Nyce	Date: 3/15/2011
Subject: Re: Ident

I believe what you have there is a GN Door & Half Boxcar by Quality Craft of Northhampton PA. The car sits a little higher and is a little wider than a standard boxcar, creating some clearance problems. This was a limited run kit from the early 60's. Peter At 11:45 PM 3/9/2011, you wrote:   Picked up a handful of cars today. Mantua reefer, easy. Athearn SWIFT reefer (metal), easy. But, got two wood GN outside-braced boxcars, with an odd door arrangement. The doors are one normal door, and one half door per side. The roof appears to be three sections, also, about evenly spaced. I have no idea where to start looking. Trying to find the camera.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16306	From: CinderCrusher	Date: 3/15/2011
Subject: Re: tag sale finds

Vic, The EJ&E box car is definitely Varney, because I also have one of them. An easy to tell the difference between Varney and Athearn stamped metal cars is this: Look at the ends and how they overlap the sides. Varney cars have one side and one end made in a single stamping in an "L" shape, so the end will only overlap on one side. Athearn cars had ends separate from the sides and overlap on both edges. Bill DeFoe --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> wrote: > > > Hi Folks, > I am not sure who made the EJ&E boxcar, but it was probably Varney, or Athearn. It is stamped metal with a wood floor. I

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16307	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 3/15/2011
Subject: Re: Ident

Sure looks like it. Now to fabricate a couple of missing doors. Thanks! Dave > > I believe what you have there is a GN Door & Half > Boxcar by Quality Craft of Northhampton PA. The > car sits a little higher and is a little wider > than a standard boxcar, creating some clearance > problems. This was a limited run kit from the early 60's. > > Peter > > > At 11:45 PM 3/9/2011, you wrote: > > > > > >Picked up a handful of cars today. > >Mantua reefer, easy. Athearn SWIFT reefer (metal), easy. > >But, got two wood GN outside-braced boxcars, with an odd door arrangement. > >The doors are one normal door, and one half door per side. > >The roof appears to be three sections, also, about evenly spaced. > >I have no idea where to start looking. > > > >Trying to find the camera. > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16308	From: Glenn	Date: 3/15/2011
Subject: Re: Ident

speaking of doors--anyone got any doors for the MDC reefer--I also need ice hatches for one. gj -----Original Message----- From: trainsnwrcs Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2011 7:00 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Ident Sure looks like it. Now to fabricate a couple of missing doors. Thanks! Dave > > I believe what you have there is a GN Door & Half > Boxcar by Quality Craft of Northhampton PA. The > car sits a little higher and is a little wider > than a standard boxcar, creating some clearance > problems. This was a limited run kit from the early 60's. > > Peter > > > At 11:45 PM 3/9/2011, you wrote: > > > > > >Picked up a handful of cars today. > >Mantua reefer, easy. Athearn SWIFT reefer (metal), easy. > >But, got two wood GN outside-braced boxcars, with an odd door > >arrangement. > >The doors are one normal door, and one half door per side. > >The roof appears to be three sections, also, about evenly spaced. > >I have no idea where to start looking. > > > >Trying to find the camera. > > > > > ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16309	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 3/16/2011
Subject: Re: [yardbirdtrains] Re: Fwd: [NYC-Modeler] Fw: 2011 GLMRS location

Yes, NYC Mohawk 3001 is at the museum in Elkhart. I gather there has been more than a little controversy in Elkhart about preservation, restoration, whatever. This convention, and the people and money it brings in to the town, may make a difference to the city, and to preservation and restoration efforts. On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 12:46 PM, Long95209 <long95209@...> wrote:   Walter . Is there a Mowhawk there also , or close by ? One was saved from Texas ? HH --- In yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com, Walter Bayer II <bayerw2@...> wrote: > > Here they are. > > On Mon, Mar 14, 2011 at 2:02 PM, Long95209 <long95209@...> wrote: > > > > > > > Nice location , nice rolling stock as well . Just one thing ? Can you dial > > up the 5 attachments so we can see 'em ? Thanks , wish I could travel I'd be > > there . HH > > > > --- In yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com, Walter Bayer II <bayerw2@> > > wrote: > > > > > > For anyone interested in RR modeling. > > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > > > From: Jim Six <jamessix@> > > > Date: Sun, Mar 13, 2011 at 5:13 PM > > > Subject: [NYC-Modeler] Fw: 2011 GLMRS location photos [6 Attachments] > > > To: RPM-forum@yahoogroups.com, NMRA_Michiana_Division@yahoogroups.com, > > > CHESSIEmodeler@yahoogroups.com, NICKELPLATEROADmodeler@yahoogroups.com, > > > conrailmodeler@yahoogroups.com, NYC-Modeler@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > [Attachment(s) <#12eb1139aaff1035_TopText> from Jim Six included below] > > > > > > > > > Many people have contacted us with questions about the location of the > > 2011 > > > GLMRS. The 2011 GLMRS will be held at the National New York Central RR > > > Museum in downtown Elkhart. Attached are five photos provided by Jason > > > Powers that show what the museum is like and its general location. > > > > > > As you can see, the former NYC mainline, now Norfolk Southern, runs right > > > alongside the museum. Directly across the tracks is the Amtrak station. > > The > > > downtown is right there. > > > > > > The 2011 GLMRS will be held in the museum and in the Amtrak station, > > which > > > is part of the city-owned museum. We have the entire upper level of the > > > station along with the entire museum. Lots of room. Lots of great things > > to > > > do and see, and a very large number of trains to watch and photograph. > > The > > > museum and Amtrak depot are right at the east end of the large NS Elkhart > > > Yard. > > > > > > We hope you will mark the weekend of April 15th and 16th on your calendar > > > and come on out to Elkhart and enjoy a great weekend of model > > railroading, > > > learning, sharing, train watching, and photography. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Regards, > > > Walter > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > Regards, > Walter > -- Regards, Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16310	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 3/16/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers OO Cars?

Jeff, Need OO trucks? eMail me off list at sneubaum@... Got plenty of Scale Craft freight trucks, some Nason trucks (Including a pair of coach trucks) and plenty I cannot ID. Thanks Steve Neubaum --- On Mon, 3/14/11, jbark76 <jbark76@...> wrote: From: jbark76 <jbark76@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Walthers OO Cars? To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, March 14, 2011, 8:17 AM   I am starting a new layout with one loop of OO at the base, then it will be primarily HO. What are you using for an engine for the OO cars? The American Flyer diecast flat car looks convincing to me for OO. I have thought about shortening it a bit to make it 40' in OO. (It's a 50' HO car.) I'm also thinking about making new sides for it, but the deck is just as wide as a Scalecraft flatcar. What are you doing with the OO trucks? -Jeff Barker-

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16311	From: Carl Neste	Date: 3/17/2011
Subject: Re: Ident

I have two of these kits, as yet unbuilt. Do you need any information about the missing doors? Carl

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16312	From: Glenn	Date: 3/17/2011
Subject: Re: Ident

I guess that I am either looking for someone who has some spare  doors and hatches, or who might be able to make some copy castings.  This would be the R-100 series cars, not the later “economy_ kits that had sides and doors as one piece, with decal lettering.  gj   From: Carl Neste Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2011 9:33 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: Ident   I have two of these kits, as yet unbuilt. Do you need any information about the missing doors? Carl

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16313	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 3/17/2011
Subject: Re: Ident

Yes! The instructions on HOSeeker leave a bit to be desired. It appears there is a very thin wod backing, that fits into the door guides, then "sticks" glued on, and painted. The doors on the two cars are slightly different. I imagine thin styrene backing would probably work just as good if not better, or even brass, with CA or epoxy to hold the sticks on! Thanks! Dave I have two of these kits, as yet unbuilt. Do you need any information about the missing doors? Carl

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16314	From: Carl Neste	Date: 3/17/2011
Subject: Re: Ident

Dave, I'm won't be home 'til sometime next month. When I get back, I'll scan the instructions and send them to HOSeeker. I'll also measure the doors and hatches and send the results to you. Carl   Yes! The instructions on HOSeeker leave a bit to be desired. It appears there is a very thin wood backing, that fits into the door guides, then "sticks" glued on, and painted. The doors on the two cars are slightly different. I imagine thin styrene backing would probably work just as good if not better, or even brass, with CA or epoxy to hold the sticks on! Thanks! Dave

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16315	From: Glenn	Date: 3/18/2011
Subject: MDC parts

A slight change in what I need to complete my MDC R-101 reefer--  I only need the FR-103 doors.  my car has the ice hatches, and one right-hand door.    So I can get by with at least a left-hand door, or 2 left and one right.  Thanks in advance—Glenn Joesten  Yreka, CA

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16316	From: jim heckard	Date: 3/18/2011
Subject: Odd project engine / drive

Attachments : IMG_6859_4.JPG IMG_6858_3.JPG IMG_6856_2.JPG IMG_6855_1.JPG   Hi      I think a lot of people already  know that when I'm not searching out a vintage item for my collection I look for something on the odd side to build for my "fantasy" engine collection. I figured I would send some pictures of one of these engine in the before state. Even though I started it there is no finished or after picture.      I thought it might be neat to show just as a discussion piece especially the very unique drive in it. The first picture is not the best but you can read the writing which will give you some info about what it is and how it came to me. It saves me from typing. The other picture should be clearer to see things better.      The front two sets of geared drivers run off the geared drive shaft in two places. The back driver seems to be in a geared box with the motor sitting on top which has a gear down to a gear on the front of that gear box. I hope the pictures explain  it better then I am. However when running ( yes it will run ) all drivers are geared and not just collected by rods.    I started to take it apart but the front boiler of wood and the wood block for the tender wrapper make it a lot harder to rebuild. The tender wrapper is pretty well done including the rivet detail Other then  being Box Pox drivers I have no idea who made the leading and trailing truck or the tenders trucks.         Just something a little different then the  norm that I thought some might like to see. Maybe I bought it off of YOU.                                           Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 16317	From: James Bartelt	Date: 3/19/2011
Subject: Unusual Revell Covered Hopper.

Attachments : 100_6514.JPG Hello, I was curious if anybody in the group has any info on this unusual Revell Covered hopper that I purchased in a collection of Vintage HO the other weekend at at Train show. It is a Revell Covered hopper that has a clear plastic body with a red roof. The Car is lettered with a DOW logo and POLYPROPYLENE in Red. No other lettering or number.  The covered hopper is filled with loose plastic pellets, I am guessing they are polypropylene. Unfortunately three of the four stirrups are broken off. Otherwise the car is in excellent shape. Was this a promotional car for Dow Chemical? Any info would be appreciated. -- James Bartelt jimbartelt@... METRO RR Club http://www.metrorrclub.org METRO RR CLUB SPRING SHOW 2011 http://members.trainorders.com/scrimjimmy/spring.html

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 16318	From: Mike	Date: 3/19/2011
Subject: New member needs help:

First I would like to thank you for letting me join your group. It was suggested by someone in the Brass Trains group. I collect older brass and unusual pieces. I have them restored one piece at a time but there is a big back log as I keep aquiring more. I posted some pics in Slims collection of an unusual 0-4-0 I need help identifying. I purchased it at the Perris swap meet a couple weeks ago for $30. Thanks again, Mike

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16319	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 3/19/2011
Subject: Re: New member needs help:

Sure looks like a Mantua chassis. Mighty Mite? http://hoseeker.net/gallery/index.php?album=mantuatyco%2Fmantuasteamengines&image=Mantua-0-4-0-Mighty-Mite.jpg The trucks on the tender look like some Mantua freight car trucks I have. Whaleback with an 0-4-0? Interesting. Homemade tender superstructure, looks like homemade cab. Dave > First I would like to thank you for letting me join your group. It was suggested by someone in the Brass Trains group. I collect older brass and unusual pieces. I have them restored one piece at a time but there is a big back log as I keep aquiring more. I posted some pics in Slims collection of an unusual 0-4-0 I need help identifying. I purchased it at the Perris swap meet a couple weeks ago for $30. Thanks again, Mike >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16320	From: Mike	Date: 3/19/2011
Subject: Re: New member needs help:

Sure looks like you're right Dave, I think this gentleman who built it was quite creative. It will be added to the list to restore. Thanks for the help. Mike --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "trainsnwrcs" <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: > > Sure looks like a Mantua chassis. > Mighty Mite? > > http://hoseeker.net/gallery/index.php?album=mantuatyco%2Fmantuasteamengines&image=Mantua-0-4-0-Mighty-Mite.jpg > > The trucks on the tender look like some Mantua freight car trucks I have. > Whaleback with an 0-4-0? > Interesting. > Homemade tender superstructure, looks like homemade cab. > Dave > > > > First I would like to thank you for letting me join your group. It was suggested by someone in the Brass Trains group. I collect older brass and unusual pieces. I have them restored one piece at a time but there is a big back log as I keep aquiring more. I posted some pics in Slims collection of an unusual 0-4-0 I need help identifying. I purchased it at the Perris swap meet a couple weeks ago for $30. Thanks again, Mike > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16321	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/19/2011
Subject: Re: New member needs help:

The mechanism maybe, but that cab looks scratchbuilt, as does the whaleback tender. I've never seen Mantua trucks with the "fat" axles, they look more like micro-motive to me. Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "trainsnwrcs" <idioticyahoo@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2011 2:08 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: New member needs help: > Sure looks like a Mantua chassis. > Mighty Mite? > > http://hoseeker.net/gallery/index.php?album=mantuatyco%2Fmantuasteamengines&image=Mantua-0-4-0-Mighty-Mite.jpg > > The trucks on the tender look like some Mantua freight car trucks I have. > Whaleback with an 0-4-0? > Interesting. > Homemade tender superstructure, looks like homemade cab. > Dave > > >> First I would like to thank you for letting me join your group. It was >> suggested by someone in the Brass Trains group. I collect older brass and >> unusual pieces. I have them restored one piece at a time but there is a >> big back log as I keep aquiring more. I posted some pics in Slims >> collection of an unusual 0-4-0 I need help identifying. I purchased it at >> the Perris swap meet a couple weeks ago for $30. Thanks again, Mike >>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16322	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/19/2011
Subject: Re: New member needs help:

----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike" <ayutla5@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2011 11:49 AM Subject: [vintageHO] New member needs help: > First I would like to thank you for letting me join your group. It was > suggested by someone in the Brass Trains group. I collect older brass and > unusual pieces. I have them restored one piece at a time but there is a > big back log as I keep aquiring more. I posted some pics in Slims > collection of an unusual 0-4-0 I need help identifying. I purchased it at > the Perris swap meet a couple weeks ago for $30. Thanks again, Mike > Welcome aboard, I hope you enjoy the ride. I think you'll find this to one of, if not THE friendliest and most knowledgeable HO groups in Yahoo. Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16323	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 3/19/2011
Subject: Re: New member needs help:

For what it is worth, I have some Mantua trucks with "fat" axles. I think they are prewar. -Steve Neubaum --- On Sat, 3/19/11, Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote: From: Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: New member needs help: To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, March 19, 2011, 2:47 PM   The mechanism maybe, but that cab looks scratchbuilt, as does the whaleback tender. I've never seen Mantua trucks with the "fat" axles, they look more like micro-motive to me. Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "trainsnwrcs" <idioticyahoo@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2011 2:08 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: New member needs help: > Sure looks like a Mantua chassis. > Mighty Mite? > > http://hoseeker.net/gallery/index.php?album=mantuatyco%2Fmantuasteamengines&image=Mantua-0-4-0-Mighty-Mite.jpg > > The trucks on the tender look like some Mantua freight car trucks I have. > Whaleback with an 0-4-0? > Interesting. > Homemade tender superstructure, looks like homemade cab. > Dave > > >> First I would like to thank you for letting me join your group. It was >> suggested by someone in the Brass Trains group. I collect older brass and >> unusual pieces. I have them restored one piece at a time but there is a >> big back log as I keep aquiring more. I posted some pics in Slims >> collection of an unusual 0-4-0 I need help identifying. I purchased it at >> the Perris swap meet a couple weeks ago for $30. Thanks again, Mike >>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16324	From: Mike	Date: 3/19/2011
Subject: Re: New member needs help:

Thank you all and I enjoyed the cream city traction since I have a number of old japanese brass trollies I collect. Since I'm 41 most of my collection is from before I was born so I will be doing alot more asking than anything so bear with me guys. Someone has to carry on collecting the old stuff though. Reguards, Mike Martin --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mike" <ayutla5@...> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2011 11:49 AM > Subject: [vintageHO] New member needs help: > > > > First I would like to thank you for letting me join your group. It was > > suggested by someone in the Brass Trains group. I collect older brass and > > unusual pieces. I have them restored one piece at a time but there is a > > big back log as I keep aquiring more. I posted some pics in Slims > > collection of an unusual 0-4-0 I need help identifying. I purchased it at > > the Perris swap meet a couple weeks ago for $30. Thanks again, Mike > > > > Welcome aboard, I hope you enjoy the ride. I think you'll find this to one > of, if not THE friendliest and most knowledgeable HO groups in Yahoo. > > Don > > Dellmann > don.dellmann@... > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ > http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction > Owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16325	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 3/19/2011
Subject: Re: New member needs help:

Like I said in my original post.....homemade cab and tender superstructure. Fat Mantua Axles, oh, yes, indeedy. Called "vintage". (poke!) Dave > The mechanism maybe, but that cab looks scratchbuilt, as does the whaleback > tender. I've never seen Mantua trucks with the "fat" axles, they look more > like micro-motive to me. > > Don Dellmann > don.dellmann@... > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ > http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction > Owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "trainsnwrcs" <idioticyahoo@...> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2011 2:08 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: New member needs help: > > > > Sure looks like a Mantua chassis. > > Mighty Mite? > > > > http://hoseeker.net/gallery/index.php?album=mantuatyco%2Fmantuasteamengines&image=Mantua-0-4-0-Mighty-Mite.jpg > > > > The trucks on the tender look like some Mantua freight car trucks I have. > > Whaleback with an 0-4-0? > > Interesting. > > Homemade tender superstructure, looks like homemade cab. > > Dave > > > > > >> First I would like to thank you for letting me join your group. It was > >> suggested by someone in the Brass Trains group. I collect older brass and > >> unusual pieces. I have them restored one piece at a time but there is a > >> big back log as I keep aquiring more. I posted some pics in Slims > >> collection of an unusual 0-4-0 I need help identifying. I purchased it at > >> the Perris swap meet a couple weeks ago for $30. Thanks again, Mike > >> >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16326	From: jim heckard	Date: 3/19/2011
Subject: odd engine

Attachments : IMG_6871_6_1.JPG IMG_6870_5_1.JPG IMG_6869_4_1.JPG IMG_6867_3_1.JPG IMG_6866_2_1.JPG Hi Mike ( slim_gauge_guy)             Welcome to the group. I just came in and saw your engine. While I pretty much agree with most of what been said I would like to add some things or confirm some things.       First deals with a number of companies including Mantua (which is mainly what we are dealing with in your pictures). We are dealing with companies that made products pre war and post war. Because of war shortages of certain metals many like Mantua had to stop pre war productions and resume post war. That doesn't mean some items were not made during these times as companies had some stock piles of certain parts and after the war when new parts were started to be made it was not impossible to find" mix and match" engines.They used parts up, they didn't throw things away.       First lets talk about the Mantua " fat axles"  Pre war a lot of the axles on their little tenders ( 0-4-0 ) type engines had fat axles. Did this stop with the war or did Mantua use up stock of "fat axles" after the war and for how long .I don't think anyone can put an end date on their use.      I also believe that the frame on your engine is Mantua and that cast metal frame was used on the Mighty Mite, Lil Goat Camelback and the Busy Bee ( 0-4-0t, no tender). These are shown in the pictures. You will also see a Mantua 0-4-0 Mighty Mite with a cast brass frame. When and for how long Mantua used stockpiled parts or used them all up had to do with the war, metal shortages and new start up.      I agree your engine is mainly Mantua with some modification.  That tender body I believe was made by another company or by the builder of the engine. Mantua produced no such tender body that I know of, ever listed in a  cataloged or that I ever saw being in vintages ho collecting since 1958.      While the engine cab is not a normal cab for Mantua I don't think it was completely made from scratch. I believe it was an already made cab modified. I believe there was a window strut / support cut out of the middle to make the large oblong windows.       One final thing is the long tanks mounted under the cab. You don't see this on the Mantua engines except as shown in the last picture showing the 0-4-0t Busy Bee.       I believe the engine is mainly Mantua with modifications done, but well done. Just a little more information you might be able to use. My belief you decide if it helps.                                   Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 16327	From: Glenn	Date: 3/19/2011
Subject: Re: odd engine [6 Attachments]

Commenting on these—I have all three in my collection”  Fat Axles—Mantua cars I got as a kid in 1948 had the fat axles.  Probably still makingf things as pre-war, but Mantua was one of the earlier firms to be back in production.   The brass sheet metal tender frame looks unusual.  Could someone have made it to replace one with Zamak Rot?  My Mighty Mite’s tender has a Zamak frame.(I need one Reading-type tender truck for mine)   The Zamak cab is proper.  The Mighty  Mite seems to be the “transition” engine between the original “Goat” and “Busy Bee” and the all-die-cast engines of the Shifter/Booster and Big/Little Six group.  Compare that cab with one on a “Shifter”   Idon’t see enough of the tender to comment.  gj   From: jim heckard Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2011 4:24 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] odd engine [6 Attachments]   [Attachment(s) from jim heckard included below] Hi Mike ( slim_gauge_guy)             Welcome to the group. I just came in and saw your engine. While I pretty much agree with most of what been said I would like to add some things or confirm some things.       First deals with a number of companies including Mantua (which is mainly what we are dealing with in your pictures). We are dealing with companies that made products pre war and post war. Because of war shortages of certain metals many like Mantua had to stop pre war productions and resume post war. That doesn't mean some items were not made during these times as companies had some stock piles of certain parts and after the war when new parts were started to be made it was not impossible to find" mix and match" engines.They used parts up, they didn't throw things away.       First lets talk about the Mantua " fat axles"  Pre war a lot of the axles on their little tenders ( 0-4-0 ) type engines had fat axles. Did this stop with the war or did Mantua use up stock of "fat axles" after the war and for how long .I don't think anyone can put an end date on their use.      I also believe that the frame on your engine is Mantua and that cast metal frame was used on the Mighty Mite, Lil Goat Camelback and the Busy Bee ( 0-4-0t, no tender). These are shown in the pictures. You will also see a Mantua 0-4-0 Mighty Mite with a cast brass frame. When and for how long Mantua used stockpiled parts or used them all up had to do with the war, metal shortages and new start up.      I agree your engine is mainly Mantua with some modification.  That tender body I believe was made by another company or by the builder of the engine. Mantua produced no such tender body that I know of, ever listed in a  cataloged or that I ever saw being in vintages ho collecting since 1958.      While the engine cab is not a normal cab for Mantua I don't think it was completely made from scratch. I believe it was an already made cab modified. I believe there was a window strut / support cut out of the middle to make the large oblong windows.       One final thing is the long tanks mounted under the cab. You don't see this on the Mantua engines except as shown in the last picture showing the 0-4-0t Busy Bee.       I believe the engine is mainly Mantua with modifications done, but well done. Just a little more information you might be able to use. My belief you decide if it helps.                                   Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16328	From: Mike	Date: 3/19/2011
Subject: Re: odd engine

Thanks a bunch Jim, someone in the Brass Trains group believes the tender body was a kemtron Kit that could be purchased years ago? It's got a home now. Mike --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> wrote: > > Hi Mike ( slim_gauge_guy) > > > Welcome to the group. I just came in and saw your engine. While I pretty much agree with most of what been said I would like to add some things or confirm some things. > > First deals with a number of companies including Mantua (which is mainly what we are dealing with in your pictures). We are dealing with companies that made products pre war and post war. Because of war shortages of certain metals many like Mantua had to stop pre war productions and resume post war. That doesn't mean some items were not made during these times as companies had some stock piles of certain parts and after the war when new parts were started to be made it was not impossible to find" mix and match" engines.They used parts up, they didn't throw things away. > > First lets talk about the Mantua " fat axles" Pre war a lot of the axles on their little tenders ( 0-4-0 ) type engines had fat axles. Did this stop with the war or did Mantua use up stock of "fat axles" after the war and for how long .I don't think anyone can put an end date on their use. > > I also believe that the frame on your engine is Mantua and that cast metal frame was used on the Mighty Mite, Lil Goat Camelback and the Busy Bee ( 0-4-0t, no tender). These are shown in the pictures. You will also see a Mantua 0-4-0 Mighty Mite with a cast brass frame. When and for how long Mantua used stockpiled parts or used them all up had to do with the war, metal shortages and new start up. > > I agree your engine is mainly Mantua with some modification. That tender body I believe was made by another company or by the builder of the engine. Mantua produced no such tender body that I know of, ever listed in a cataloged or that I ever saw being in vintages ho collecting since 1958. > > While the engine cab is not a normal cab for Mantua I don't think it was completely made from scratch. I believe it was an already made cab modified. I believe there was a window strut / support cut out of the middle to make the large oblong windows. > > One final thing is the long tanks mounted under the cab. You don't see this on the Mantua engines except as shown in the last picture showing the 0-4-0t Busy Bee. > > I believe the engine is mainly Mantua with modifications done, but well done. Just a little more information you might be able to use. My belief you decide if it helps. > > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16329	From: Carl Neste	Date: 3/20/2011
Subject: Good old woodies

While I didn't get back into model railroading until 3 years ago, I have been accumulating A LOT of good quality wood kits over the last 5 decades. In the interest of full disclosure, I do like the newest plastic kits, like Red Caboose, Proto 2K, InterMountain, etc., and I'm in the middle of assembling two B&O AAR boxcars. But I also just started two BevBel steel-sided boxcar kits, identical but with different road names. I've been a subscriber and avid reader of MR and MRC seemingly forever. And I remember reading that when building a wood kit that pretends to be a metal car, it is necessary to apply sanding sealer to the exposed parts and sand them really smooth before painting. I've done that so far to the sides, roof and bottom. But I'll bet you folks have a lot more experience building these kits then I do, and perhaps could offer some suggestions that would help me get standout results. I'd love to hear them. Carl

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16330	From: jbark76	Date: 3/20/2011
Subject: Re: Good old woodies

I use OOO steel wool to smooth wood cars sealed with sanding sealer. I have also used Krylon clear coat spray for the same purpose, but sanding sealer is surely better. -Jeff Barker-

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16331	From: Chris B	Date: 3/20/2011
Subject: Re: Good old woodies

FWIW, as an apprentice cabinetmaker I learned to use fine 180 and 220 white openface aluminum oxide sandpaper to "cut down" or smooth sanding sealer. Later in my own shop I taught helpers the same way I'd been taught, that coarser garnet paper is used to smooth wood, up to 180 grit, this gets the raw wood as smooth as paper will get it, since the fine wood fibers at this point don't resist any higher grit of paper, the just bend over and lay down like the hairs in the shaving cream commercials. To cut them off, just like with a razor in the commercials, First you spray or brush on sanding sealer, and let it dry around those fine wood fiber hairs, so it holds them up stiffly vertical or nearly so. Then you use a flat block and fine paper to cut them off, usually starting with the same grit you left off with, but using aluminum oxide paper instead of garnet. The open coat paper has lots of open space for the sealer bits and wood fibers to get swept into as the paper and block cuts them off. (Then  you spray 12 or 16 coats of lacquer, wetsanding between each one with 400 and 600 paper, then rubbing with soft cloths and pumice and rottenstone, followed by 0000 steel wool applied with "steel wool wax" that keeps it from burning through high spots on the finish...) but that's for dining table tops, not box cars!) The reason you use paper instead of fine steel wool on the sanding sealer is paper and a block cuts off the dried straight up hairs...fine steel wool bends them down again, and smooths over any high round bumps in the finish, instead of cutting them off flat like a razor in the commercials. Steel wool is great for finish coats where you don't want to cut through the finish and stain or paint, on an edge or a high spot and expose the raw wood color, but you might find you get an overall smoother surface if you cut down the sanding sealer with paper and a block, instead of steel wool I like all the different grit emery boards that CVS and the plastic model builders use for that purpose, since full size sanding blocks and paper as used on furniture are only rarely suitable for railcar modeling. one method that does work for large flat surfaces, and keeps them flat, is to use white glue to adhere a full or half sheet of paper to a piece of flat glass, and move the model part rather than the paper. We did use to do that too in the woodshop, to sand small parts without rounding over sharp edges. Chris B.   From: jbark76 <jbark76@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, March 20, 2011 3:09:23 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Good old woodies   I use OOO steel wool to smooth wood cars sealed with sanding sealer. I have also used Krylon clear coat spray for the same purpose, but sanding sealer is surely better. -Jeff Barker-

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16332	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 3/20/2011
Subject: 2011 GLMRS Update and Campus Map

Attachments : Some additional information for those considering attending [Looks really good!].                 The Great Lakes Model Railroad Symposium (GLMRS) is an annual event co-sponsored by the NMRA Michiana Division and the St. Joe Valley Model Railroad Club. For 2011 we have moved from South Bend to Elkhart, Indiana at the National New York Central Railroad Museum and the Amtrak Depot across the Norfolk Southern tracks.   The 2011 GLMRS is an all-scale event for scale model railroaders designed to help you to learn new skills and enhance old ones. The GLMRS will be a learning experience for all. We support all scale model railroaders including N, HO, S, and O-scales. This is not a train "show". It is not an RPM-meet. The GLMRS is an opportunity to learn from other scale model railroaders, share with them, and meet others with similar experiences and shared interests. As you can see from the line-up below, the 2011 GLMRS will be two days packed full of great activities with some of the hobby's best-known scale model railroaders. I hope you will take time to visit Elkhart and attend the fifth annual GLMRS.                                                                               See you in April!                                                                                                                                                                                    Jim Six                                                                             Superintendent, NMRA Michiana Division (MWR)           SCHEDULE OF ACTIVITIES   FRIDAY April 15 9:00 AM-11:45 AM                  DEPOT-2                         Mark Belmonte/Dave Schroedel: Hands-on Weathering Workshop 9:00 AM-1:30 PM                     DEPOT-1                         David Duchamp/Dennis Whitaker: DCC Hands-on Workshop 10:00 AM-11:30 PM               WORKSHOP-1              Jim Six: Painting and Weathering Structures Demonstration & Clinic 12:00 PM-1:45 PM                  DEPOT-2                         Mark Belmonte/Dave Schroedel: Hands-on Weathering Workshop 12:00 PM-1:30 PM                  THEATER                       Jim Six: Creating Photo Backdrops Demonstration 2:00 PM                                       THEATER                       Jim Six: Building a Freight Car Fleet for Operating Model Railroads 3:00 PM                                       THEATER                       Maynard Mitchell: Modeling Realistic Trees, Rivers, and Streams 4:00 PM                                       THEATER                       Terry Stuart: Modeling Pennsy along the Ohio River 7:00 PM                                       THEATER                       Bill Neale: Modeling the Pennsylvania Railroad 8:00 PM                                       THEATER                       Jim Hediger (Kalmbach): Double Deck Model Railroads SATURDAY April 16 9:00 AM-11:45 AM                  DEPOT-2                         Mark Mark Belmonte/Dave Schroedel: Hands-on Weathering Workshop 9:00 AM-1:30 PM                     DEPOT-1                         David Duchamp/Dennis Whitaker: DCC Hands-on Workshop 9:30 AM-11:00 PM                  WORKSHOP-1              John Lee: Fundamentals of Painting with an Airbrush  12:00 PM-1:45 PM                  DEPOT-2                         Mark Belmonte/Dave Schroedel: Hands-on Weathering Workshop 12:00 PM - 1:30                        WORKSHOP-1              John Lee: Fundamentals of Painting with an Airbrush                                          12:00 PM-1:30 PM                  THEATER                       Jim Six: Creating Photo Backdrops Demonstration 1:00 PM                                       DEPOT-1                         David Duchamp: Programming DCC/Sound Decoders 2:00 PM                                       THEATER                       Ray Breyer: Scratch Building Your Way to Fun & Profit 3:00 PM                                       THEATER                       Mike Burgett: Modeling the C&O Clifton Forge Division 4:00 PM                                       THEATER                       Tony Koester (Kalmbach): The State of Layout Design and Construction Today 7:00 PM                                       THEATER                       Doug Tagsold: Modeling Toledo's Port Terminal Railroads                        8:00 PM                                       THEATER                       Mike Brestel: The NMRA Today and Tomorrow                       MAP of the 2011 Great Lakes Model Railroad Symposium Campus       -- Regards, Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16333	From: dennyanspach	Date: 3/21/2011
Subject: Re: Good old woodies

I use OOO steel wool to smooth wood cars sealed with sanding sealer. I have also used Krylon clear coat spray for the same purpose, but sanding sealer is surely better. -Jeff Barker- Excellent advice.  The sealer should be applied to all exposed wood surfaces: that is, exposed both inside and out.  Exposed and unsealed wood (and paper) will *always* move with changes in ambient moisture, and sealing both sides prevents the wood from moving only on one side- i.e.  "warping". Sealing end grain is especially important. The easiest sanding sealer for modeling work is that obtained in RC stores, "Hot Fuel Proof Sanding Sealer".  It essentially is a fast drying brushing clear lacquer with a talc filler. Mix well, and mix often. Before the sealer is applied, you will be ahead of the game by sanding the wood initially *before* applying the sealer, in addition to also sanding it afterwards.  000 or 0000 steel wool does work very well, but considerable caution has to be exercised to meticulously remove all the tiny steel threads left behind in the crevises, etc. Blowing it clean additionally hazards the eyes, of course.  I also use 300 and 400 grit sandpaper. 600 grit clogs up almost immediately, and the results are not noticeably improved. Although in past years I work increasingly with styrene, I have much fondness for wood and paper modeling, if only because working with the latter is so very satisfying, and fine results represent fine modeling craftsmanship.   Denny Denny S.  Anspach MD Sacramento

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16334	From: jim heckard	Date: 3/21/2011
Subject: seeking information

Attachments : IMG_6875_4.JPG IMG_6874_3.JPG IMG_6873_2.JPG IMG_6872_1.JPG              As a vintage HO collector I am always on the look out for companies and  items they made that are not commonly heard of. I purchased this item of eBay a little while back and might have asked some of these questions before but I'm still seeking some more answers. Since there are many new members in the group I am hoping for more information.         I am mostly seeking information about the company, other products they made and copies of any printed information or catalogs they may have printed.        As you can see by the pictures the company is  Western Models    930 S W Harrison Street  Portland, Oregon.  ( No zip code in the address and a 1 cent postcard in the box to send back to the company with any complaints might help to date them. )   The engine is a photo engraved model of a 1000 HP ALCO diesel switcher. It is powered by a Pittman DC 60 motor that is part of a Varney gear box unit using pulleys and a coil spring drive with flywheel.. It has single pulleys so it is not  variable speed. There is a bag of detail parts which includes Mantua loop type coupler. Looks like they , Western Models,. used parts from a number of companies. ( The brass parts to assemble the body were not the best fitting and needed to be filed.)       Although I described the engine  I am mostly interested in knowing more about the company and any other products. Thank you in advance for any information you can provide. I will gladly pay to have copies of any paperwork you might have and could send to me.                                                         Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 16335	From: toytrain13	Date: 3/21/2011
Subject: American Beauty truck part

Hi guys- I'm still in need of one (1) truck sideframe for an American Beauty passenger truck. A single complete truck would work too, if anyone can furnish that for me. I would also be grateful if anyone can furnish me with two (2) (or evem one) of the AB full width diaphragm plates (steel or plastic). I'd happily compensate you for these items. Regards- Richard White

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16336	From: Robert	Date: 3/21/2011
Subject: Athearn 4-6-2

looking for tender truck sets for old model Athearn 4-6-2 tender. Thanks Robert

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16337	From: jim heckard	Date: 3/22/2011
Subject: Original Winton Tender Trucks

Attachments : IMG_6881_3.JPG IMG_6880_2.JPG IMG_6879_1.JPG                 For a number of years I have been looking for an original set of Winton Allegheny tender trucks so I could totally complete my assembled and running Winton engine using all original parts. I was finally able to get a set off eBay and when they arrived I was surprised by a number of things.        Remember these engines were made roughly 1950-1954 ( mine is the original first version.) The first thing that struck me was how "intricate" these tucks are. I was surprised by how many parts / pieces it took to create either of the trucks,one with 3 axles ( 6 wheels) and the other with 4 axles ( 8  wheels ). The plans pictured will show you some of the assembly and hopefully the pictures I sent will show more. For how long ago made they were designed to flex in so many ways even the sides could move.  (That side movement let these trucks take a tighter radius then trucks that had solid sides/ frames.        The second surprise has me stumped right now.  I had been using two "fill in" tender trucks while I sought the original Winton ones. The forward one is a pretty decent brass truck that was similar in design to what should have been on this Winton Allegheny and the back truck was a cast metal ( painted brass) Arbour truck from their 2-6-6-6. These both worked fine till I  could find the original set.        I figured I would take two screws out, switch trucks and put the two screws back in and be ready to roll. Funny how things don't work out like you think they should. Take a look at the middle or second picture I sent and you will notice both the original trucks have an insulated piece on the top of the trucks that would go against the bottom of the tender. Unlike the two " fill in" trucks that were metal /brass where electrical pickup was easy once the screw was in place.  The Winton trucks don't work that way. When you put that screw in the middle hole of that insulated piece there is no way to get electrical current from the wheel to the tender body. I checked the drawing, checked all the paperwork I have to assemble the engine and can find nothing that tells me how to correct this problem. Next I have to read the plans on hoseeker which are slightly different then mine to see if something there helps.  Without figuring it out, and hopefully the way the original engine was, my engine will not run because the tender wheels can't get current to the tender body and on to one side of the motor.       While I have come up with a couple of ways to get it to work hat to me is a jury rig not original. I was hoping someone has a working Winton Allegheny or some paperwork that could shed some light on what was the proper way to accomplish this.                                          Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 16338	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 3/22/2011
Subject: Re: Original Winton Tender Trucks [3 Attachments]

Jim, First, you have to remember that in vintage kits especially there are anomalies that are often inexplicable. Also, my understanding of Winton kits is that they were not intended to be exact replicas of prototypes but were loose approximations of them, and the modeler was encouraged to make any modifications desired. While building 2 complete Winton Alleghenies and several Berkshires I gradually came to the conclusion that the design and manufacture of these models were both made somewhat with tongue-in-cheek. Thus I did not spend much time attempting to figure out the rationale of the electrical connections (or lack of them in this case) of the tender trucks but simply went ahead and soldered a wire from the central screw to the metal part of the trucks, keeping the polarity correct while doing so. I think sometimes we get so involved with being precise in reproduction that we make it unnecessarily hard on ourselves. I cringe oftentimes when I see what is done to "restorations" of buildings but realize that some allowances have to be made. Finally, in the case of the Winton kits, I have no doubt that Winton Brown himself would have nodded approval at what modelers felt needed to be done to make his products work to their satisfaction.   Art W In a message dated 3/22/2011 5:51:17 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jimheck@... writes: [Attachment(s) from jim heckard included below]                 For a number of years I have been looking for an original set of Winton Allegheny tender trucks so I could totally complete my assembled and running Winton engine using all original parts. I was finally able to get a set off eBay and when they arrived I was surprised by a number of things.        Remember these engines were made roughly 1950-1954 ( mine is the original first version.) The first thing that struck me was how "intricate" these tucks are. I was surprised by how many parts / pieces it took to create either of the trucks,one with 3 axles ( 6 wheels) and the other with 4 axles ( 8  wheels ). The plans pictured will show you some of the assembly and hopefully the pictures I sent will show more. For how long ago made they were designed to flex in so many ways even the sides could move.  (That side movement let these trucks take a tighter radius then trucks that had solid sides/ frames.        The second surprise has me stumped right now.  I had been using two "fill in" tender trucks while I sought the original Winton ones. The forward one is a pretty decent brass truck that was similar in design to what should have been on this Winton Allegheny and the back truck was a cast metal ( painted brass) Arbour truck from their 2-6-6-6. These both worked fine till I  could find the original set.        I figured I would take two screws out, switch trucks and put the two screws back in and be ready to roll. Funny how things don't work out like you think they should. Take a look at the middle or second picture I sent and you will notice both the original trucks have an insulated piece on the top of the trucks that would go against the bottom of the tender. Unlike the two " fill in" trucks that were metal /brass where electrical pickup was easy once the screw was in place.  The Winton trucks don't work that way. When you put that screw in the middle hole of that insulated piece there is no way to get electrical current from the wheel to the tender body. I checked the drawing, checked all the paperwork I have to assemble the engine and can find nothing that tells me how to correct this problem. Next I have to read the plans on hoseeker which are slightly different then mine to see if something there helps.  Without figuring it out, and hopefully the way the original engine was, my engine will not run because the tender wheels can't get current to the tender body and on to one side of the motor.       While I have come up with a couple of ways to get it to work hat to me is a jury rig not original. I was hoping someone has a working Winton Allegheny or some paperwork that could shed some light on what was the proper way to accomplish this.                                          Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16339	From: jim heckard	Date: 3/22/2011
Subject: Re: Original Winton Tender Trucks

Art,               Thanks for the reply. I always had the opinion concerning the Winton Allegheny plans that they were never complete and the builder was to finish  things his way. I guess this is the same. I even started to wonder if the plans were not complete because Winton Brown  didn't know how to finish it himself and left it up to the builder.                                    Jim H                ----- Original Message ----- From: luvprr@... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 7:35 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Original Winton Tender Trucks   Jim, First, you have to remember that in vintage kits especially there are anomalies that are often inexplicable. Also, my understanding of Winton kits is that they were not intended to be exact replicas of prototypes but were loose approximations of them, and the modeler was encouraged to make any modifications desired. While building 2 complete Winton Alleghenies and several Berkshires I gradually came to the conclusion that the design and manufacture of these models were both made somewhat with tongue-in-cheek. Thus I did not spend much time attempting to figure out the rationale of the electrical connections (or lack of them in this case) of the tender trucks but simply went ahead and soldered a wire from the central screw to the metal part of the trucks, keeping the polarity correct while doing so. I think sometimes we get so involved with being precise in reproduction that we make it unnecessarily hard on ourselves. I cringe oftentimes when I see what is done to "restorations" of buildings but realize that some allowances have to be made. Finally, in the case of the Winton kits, I have no doubt that Winton Brown himself would have nodded approval at what modelers felt needed to be done to make his products work to their satisfaction.   Art W In a message dated 3/22/2011 5:51:17 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jimheck@... writes: [Attachment(s) from jim heckard included below]                 For a number of years I have been looking for an original set of Winton Allegheny tender trucks so I could totally complete my assembled and running Winton engine using all original parts. I was finally able to get a set off eBay and when they arrived I was surprised by a number of things.        Remember these engines were made roughly 1950-1954 ( mine is the original first version.) The first thing that struck me was how "intricate" these tucks are. I was surprised by how many parts / pieces it took to create either of the trucks,one with 3 axles ( 6 wheels) and the other with 4 axles ( 8  wheels ). The plans pictured will show you some of the assembly and hopefully the pictures I sent will show more. For how long ago made they were designed to flex in so many ways even the sides could move.  (That side movement let these trucks take a tighter radius then trucks that had solid sides/ frames.        The second surprise has me stumped right now.  I had been using two "fill in" tender trucks while I sought the original Winton ones. The forward one is a pretty decent brass truck that was similar in design to what should have been on this Winton Allegheny and the back truck was a cast metal ( painted brass) Arbour truck from their 2-6-6-6. These both worked fine till I  could find the original set.        I figured I would take two screws out, switch trucks and put the two screws back in and be ready to roll. Funny how things don't work out like you think they should. Take a look at the middle or second picture I sent and you will notice both the original trucks have an insulated piece on the top of the trucks that would go against the bottom of the tender. Unlike the two " fill in" trucks that were metal /brass where electrical pickup was easy once the screw was in place.  The Winton trucks don't work that way. When you put that screw in the middle hole of that insulated piece there is no way to get electrical current from the wheel to the tender body. I checked the drawing, checked all the paperwork I have to assemble the engine and can find nothing that tells me how to correct this problem. Next I have to read the plans on hoseeker which are slightly different then mine to see if something there helps.  Without figuring it out, and hopefully the way the original engine was, my engine will not run because the tender wheels can't get current to the tender body and on to one side of the motor.       While I have come up with a couple of ways to get it to work hat to me is a jury rig not original. I was hoping someone has a working Winton Allegheny or some paperwork that could shed some light on what was the proper way to accomplish this.                                          Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16340	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 3/22/2011
Subject: Re: Original Winton Tender Trucks

Jim, Exactly. And his brass stuff was kinda experimental for the times. I've heard (as his real interest was live steam) that he was seriously considering trying to get HO scale to work with live steam. It's for sure that he wanted to produce a wider array of HO locos that modelers could intentionally modify, but it appears (from a letter signed by him that I have to a disappointed customer) that his suppliers were having problems providing him with some basic items he needed for his products already on the market.   Art W    In a message dated 3/22/2011 8:05:35 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jimheck@... writes: Art,               Thanks for the reply. I always had the opinion concerning the Winton Allegheny plans that they were never complete and the builder was to finish  things his way. I guess this is the same. I even started to wonder if the plans were not complete because Winton Brown  didn't know how to finish it himself and left it up to the builder.                                    Jim H                ----- Original Message ----- From: luvprr@... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 7:35 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Original Winton Tender Trucks   Jim, First, you have to remember that in vintage kits especially there are anomalies that are often inexplicable. Also, my understanding of Winton kits is that they were not intended to be exact replicas of prototypes but were loose approximations of them, and the modeler was encouraged to make any modifications desired. While building 2 complete Winton Alleghenies and several Berkshires I gradually came to the conclusion that the design and manufacture of these models were both made somewhat with tongue-in-cheek. Thus I did not spend much time attempting to figure out the rationale of the electrical connections (or lack of them in this case) of the tender trucks but simply went ahead and soldered a wire from the central screw to the metal part of the trucks, keeping the polarity correct while doing so. I think sometimes we get so involved with being precise in reproduction that we make it unnecessarily hard on ourselves. I cringe oftentimes when I see what is done to "restorations" of buildings but realize that some allowances have to be made. Finally, in the case of the Winton kits, I have no doubt that Winton Brown himself would have nodded approval at what modelers felt needed to be done to make his products work to their satisfaction.   Art W In a message dated 3/22/2011 5:51:17 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jimheck@... writes: [Attachment(s) from jim heckard included below]                 For a number of years I have been looking for an original set of Winton Allegheny tender trucks so I could totally complete my assembled and running Winton engine using all original parts. I was finally able to get a set off eBay and when they arrived I was surprised by a number of things.        Remember these engines were made roughly 1950-1954 ( mine is the original first version.) The first thing that struck me was how "intricate" these tucks are. I was surprised by how many parts / pieces it took to create either of the trucks,one with 3 axles ( 6 wheels) and the other with 4 axles ( 8  wheels ). The plans pictured will show you some of the assembly and hopefully the pictures I sent will show more. For how long ago made they were designed to flex in so many ways even the sides could move.  (That side movement let these trucks take a tighter radius then trucks that had solid sides/ frames.        The second surprise has me stumped right now.  I had been using two "fill in" tender trucks while I sought the original Winton ones. The forward one is a pretty decent brass truck that was similar in design to what should have been on this Winton Allegheny and the back truck was a cast metal ( painted brass) Arbour truck from their 2-6-6-6. These both worked fine till I  could find the original set.        I figured I would take two screws out, switch trucks and put the two screws back in and be ready to roll. Funny how things don't work out like you think they should. Take a look at the middle or second picture I sent and you will notice both the original trucks have an insulated piece on the top of the trucks that would go against the bottom of the tender. Unlike the two " fill in" trucks that were metal /brass where electrical pickup was easy once the screw was in place.  The Winton trucks don't work that way. When you put that screw in the middle hole of that insulated piece there is no way to get electrical current from the wheel to the tender body. I checked the drawing, checked all the paperwork I have to assemble the engine and can find nothing that tells me how to correct this problem. Next I have to read the plans on hoseeker which are slightly different then mine to see if something there helps.  Without figuring it out, and hopefully the way the original engine was, my engine will not run because the tender wheels can't get current to the tender body and on to one side of the motor.       While I have come up with a couple of ways to get it to work hat to me is a jury rig not original. I was hoping someone has a working Winton Allegheny or some paperwork that could shed some light on what was the proper way to accomplish this.                                          Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16341	From: jim heckard	Date: 3/22/2011
Subject: Re: Original Winton Tender Trucks

I know a little about his live steam adventure. I have a set of plans for what was going to be a 4-8-4 using the Berk set of 8 drivers. Ebay sold a Winton 0-8-0 frame with the steam chest saddle made for live steam. I had a man from Germany contact me to get him the copy of the 8 wheel live steam Winton drive that showed the individual heavy duty valve gear pieces and how it would be fired by Butane. How the inside of the tender would be piped , etc. The engine was to have a 4 wheel trailing truck to take the extra length needed at the back end. I'm recalling this off the top of my head so I could be off slightly but the set of plans were full size and about 10 pages.  He gave up on it also because he was a machinist and he took off at least one finger. That's one of the reasons he stopped the Allegheny and that third version .   ( Ma Ra ) came about from other people.  I have to check my folders as I still might have the copy of the Winton steam plans but really believe I sent everything to Germany. I know the guy from Germany got the ready for live steam frame, drivers and steam chest saddle for $110.                                                Jim H ----- Original Message ----- From: luvprr@... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 8:17 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Original Winton Tender Trucks   Jim, Exactly. And his brass stuff was kinda experimental for the times. I've heard (as his real interest was live steam) that he was seriously considering trying to get HO scale to work with live steam. It's for sure that he wanted to produce a wider array of HO locos that modelers could intentionally modify, but it appears (from a letter signed by him that I have to a disappointed customer) that his suppliers were having problems providing him with some basic items he needed for his products already on the market.   Art W    In a message dated 3/22/2011 8:05:35 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jimheck@... writes: Art,               Thanks for the reply. I always had the opinion concerning the Winton Allegheny plans that they were never complete and the builder was to finish  things his way. I guess this is the same. I even started to wonder if the plans were not complete because Winton Brown  didn't know how to finish it himself and left it up to the builder.                                    Jim H                ----- Original Message ----- From: luvprr@... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 7:35 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Original Winton Tender Trucks   Jim, First, you have to remember that in vintage kits especially there are anomalies that are often inexplicable. Also, my understanding of Winton kits is that they were not intended to be exact replicas of prototypes but were loose approximations of them, and the modeler was encouraged to make any modifications desired. While building 2 complete Winton Alleghenies and several Berkshires I gradually came to the conclusion that the design and manufacture of these models were both made somewhat with tongue-in-cheek. Thus I did not spend much time attempting to figure out the rationale of the electrical connections (or lack of them in this case) of the tender trucks but simply went ahead and soldered a wire from the central screw to the metal part of the trucks, keeping the polarity correct while doing so. I think sometimes we get so involved with being precise in reproduction that we make it unnecessarily hard on ourselves. I cringe oftentimes when I see what is done to "restorations" of buildings but realize that some allowances have to be made. Finally, in the case of the Winton kits, I have no doubt that Winton Brown himself would have nodded approval at what modelers felt needed to be done to make his products work to their satisfaction.   Art W In a message dated 3/22/2011 5:51:17 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jimheck@... writes: [Attachment(s) from jim heckard included below]                 For a number of years I have been looking for an original set of Winton Allegheny tender trucks so I could totally complete my assembled and running Winton engine using all original parts. I was finally able to get a set off eBay and when they arrived I was surprised by a number of things.        Remember these engines were made roughly 1950-1954 ( mine is the original first version.) The first thing that struck me was how "intricate" these tucks are. I was surprised by how many parts / pieces it took to create either of the trucks,one with 3 axles ( 6 wheels) and the other with 4 axles ( 8  wheels ). The plans pictured will show you some of the assembly and hopefully the pictures I sent will show more. For how long ago made they were designed to flex in so many ways even the sides could move.  (That side movement let these trucks take a tighter radius then trucks that had solid sides/ frames.        The second surprise has me stumped right now.  I had been using two "fill in" tender trucks while I sought the original Winton ones. The forward one is a pretty decent brass truck that was similar in design to what should have been on this Winton Allegheny and the back truck was a cast metal ( painted brass) Arbour truck from their 2-6-6-6. These both worked fine till I  could find the original set.        I figured I would take two screws out, switch trucks and put the two screws back in and be ready to roll. Funny how things don't work out like you think they should. Take a look at the middle or second picture I sent and you will notice both the original trucks have an insulated piece on the top of the trucks that would go against the bottom of the tender. Unlike the two " fill in" trucks that were metal /brass where electrical pickup was easy once the screw was in place.  The Winton trucks don't work that way. When you put that screw in the middle hole of that insulated piece there is no way to get electrical current from the wheel to the tender body. I checked the drawing, checked all the paperwork I have to assemble the engine and can find nothing that tells me how to correct this problem. Next I have to read the plans on hoseeker which are slightly different then mine to see if something there helps.  Without figuring it out, and hopefully the way the original engine was, my engine will not run because the tender wheels can't get current to the tender body and on to one side of the motor.       While I have come up with a couple of ways to get it to work hat to me is a jury rig not original. I was hoping someone has a working Winton Allegheny or some paperwork that could shed some light on what was the proper way to accomplish this.                                          Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16342	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 3/22/2011
Subject: Re: Original Winton Tender Trucks

Wow. That is definitely cool. Wish I had a copy of those plans. Art W   In a message dated 3/22/2011 8:39:40 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jimheck@... writes:      I know a little about his live steam adventure. I have a set of plans for what was going to be a 4-8-4 using the Berk set of 8 drivers. Ebay sold a Winton 0-8-0 frame with the steam chest saddle made for live steam. I had a man from Germany contact me to get him the copy of the 8 wheel live steam Winton drive that showed the individual heavy duty valve gear pieces and how it would be fired by Butane. How the inside of the tender would be piped , etc. The engine was to have a 4 wheel trailing truck to take the extra length needed at the back end. I'm recalling this off the top of my head so I could be off slightly but the set of plans were full size and about 10 pages.  He gave up on it also because he was a machinist and he took off at least one finger. That's one of the reasons he stopped the Allegheny and that third version .   ( Ma Ra ) came about from other people.  I have to check my folders as I still might have the copy of the Winton steam plans but really believe I sent everything to Germany. I know the guy from Germany got the ready for live steam frame, drivers and steam chest saddle for $110.                                                Jim H ----- Original Message ----- From: luvprr@... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 8:17 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Original Winton Tender Trucks   Jim, Exactly. And his brass stuff was kinda experimental for the times. I've heard (as his real interest was live steam) that he was seriously considering trying to get HO scale to work with live steam. It's for sure that he wanted to produce a wider array of HO locos that modelers could intentionally modify, but it appears (from a letter signed by him that I have to a disappointed customer) that his suppliers were having problems providing him with some basic items he needed for his products already on the market.   Art W    In a message dated 3/22/2011 8:05:35 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jimheck@... writes: Art,               Thanks for the reply. I always had the opinion concerning the Winton Allegheny plans that they were never complete and the builder was to finish  things his way. I guess this is the same. I even started to wonder if the plans were not complete because Winton Brown  didn't know how to finish it himself and left it up to the builder.                                    Jim H                ----- Original Message ----- From: luvprr@... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 7:35 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Original Winton Tender Trucks   Jim, First, you have to remember that in vintage kits especially there are anomalies that are often inexplicable. Also, my understanding of Winton kits is that they were not intended to be exact replicas of prototypes but were loose approximations of them, and the modeler was encouraged to make any modifications desired. While building 2 complete Winton Alleghenies and several Berkshires I gradually came to the conclusion that the design and manufacture of these models were both made somewhat with tongue-in-cheek. Thus I did not spend much time attempting to figure out the rationale of the electrical connections (or lack of them in this case) of the tender trucks but simply went ahead and soldered a wire from the central screw to the metal part of the trucks, keeping the polarity correct while doing so. I think sometimes we get so involved with being precise in reproduction that we make it unnecessarily hard on ourselves. I cringe oftentimes when I see what is done to "restorations" of buildings but realize that some allowances have to be made. Finally, in the case of the Winton kits, I have no doubt that Winton Brown himself would have nodded approval at what modelers felt needed to be done to make his products work to their satisfaction.   Art W In a message dated 3/22/2011 5:51:17 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jimheck@... writes: [Attachment(s) from jim heckard included below]                 For a number of years I have been looking for an original set of Winton Allegheny tender trucks so I could totally complete my assembled and running Winton engine using all original parts. I was finally able to get a set off eBay and when they arrived I was surprised by a number of things.        Remember these engines were made roughly 1950-1954 ( mine is the original first version.) The first thing that struck me was how "intricate" these tucks are. I was surprised by how many parts / pieces it took to create either of the trucks,one with 3 axles ( 6 wheels) and the other with 4 axles ( 8  wheels ). The plans pictured will show you some of the assembly and hopefully the pictures I sent will show more. For how long ago made they were designed to flex in so many ways even the sides could move.  (That side movement let these trucks take a tighter radius then trucks that had solid sides/ frames.        The second surprise has me stumped right now.  I had been using two "fill in" tender trucks while I sought the original Winton ones. The forward one is a pretty decent brass truck that was similar in design to what should have been on this Winton Allegheny and the back truck was a cast metal ( painted brass) Arbour truck from their 2-6-6-6. These both worked fine till I  could find the original set.        I figured I would take two screws out, switch trucks and put the two screws back in and be ready to roll. Funny how things don't work out like you think they should. Take a look at the middle or second picture I sent and you will notice both the original trucks have an insulated piece on the top of the trucks that would go against the bottom of the tender. Unlike the two " fill in" trucks that were metal /brass where electrical pickup was easy once the screw was in place.  The Winton trucks don't work that way. When you put that screw in the middle hole of that insulated piece there is no way to get electrical current from the wheel to the tender body. I checked the drawing, checked all the paperwork I have to assemble the engine and can find nothing that tells me how to correct this problem. Next I have to read the plans on hoseeker which are slightly different then mine to see if something there helps.  Without figuring it out, and hopefully the way the original engine was, my engine will not run because the tender wheels can't get current to the tender body and on to one side of the motor.       While I have come up with a couple of ways to get it to work hat to me is a jury rig not original. I was hoping someone has a working Winton Allegheny or some paperwork that could shed some light on what was the proper way to accomplish this.                                          Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16343	From: jim heckard	Date: 3/22/2011
Subject: Re: Original Winton Tender Trucks

Art,             By the way the man from Germany who is trying to build that Winton live steam engine is Egon Berger of Hohenau Germany. I have his Email address and home address as I'm to notify him if I see any thing else. This man builds as lot of live steam.                                                                Jim H ----- Original Message ----- From: luvprr@... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 8:17 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Original Winton Tender Trucks   Jim, Exactly. And his brass stuff was kinda experimental for the times. I've heard (as his real interest was live steam) that he was seriously considering trying to get HO scale to work with live steam. It's for sure that he wanted to produce a wider array of HO locos that modelers could intentionally modify, but it appears (from a letter signed by him that I have to a disappointed customer) that his suppliers were having problems providing him with some basic items he needed for his products already on the market.   Art W    In a message dated 3/22/2011 8:05:35 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jimheck@... writes: Art,               Thanks for the reply. I always had the opinion concerning the Winton Allegheny plans that they were never complete and the builder was to finish  things his way. I guess this is the same. I even started to wonder if the plans were not complete because Winton Brown  didn't know how to finish it himself and left it up to the builder.                                    Jim H                ----- Original Message ----- From: luvprr@... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 7:35 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Original Winton Tender Trucks   Jim, First, you have to remember that in vintage kits especially there are anomalies that are often inexplicable. Also, my understanding of Winton kits is that they were not intended to be exact replicas of prototypes but were loose approximations of them, and the modeler was encouraged to make any modifications desired. While building 2 complete Winton Alleghenies and several Berkshires I gradually came to the conclusion that the design and manufacture of these models were both made somewhat with tongue-in-cheek. Thus I did not spend much time attempting to figure out the rationale of the electrical connections (or lack of them in this case) of the tender trucks but simply went ahead and soldered a wire from the central screw to the metal part of the trucks, keeping the polarity correct while doing so. I think sometimes we get so involved with being precise in reproduction that we make it unnecessarily hard on ourselves. I cringe oftentimes when I see what is done to "restorations" of buildings but realize that some allowances have to be made. Finally, in the case of the Winton kits, I have no doubt that Winton Brown himself would have nodded approval at what modelers felt needed to be done to make his products work to their satisfaction.   Art W In a message dated 3/22/2011 5:51:17 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jimheck@... writes: [Attachment(s) from jim heckard included below]                 For a number of years I have been looking for an original set of Winton Allegheny tender trucks so I could totally complete my assembled and running Winton engine using all original parts. I was finally able to get a set off eBay and when they arrived I was surprised by a number of things.        Remember these engines were made roughly 1950-1954 ( mine is the original first version.) The first thing that struck me was how "intricate" these tucks are. I was surprised by how many parts / pieces it took to create either of the trucks,one with 3 axles ( 6 wheels) and the other with 4 axles ( 8  wheels ). The plans pictured will show you some of the assembly and hopefully the pictures I sent will show more. For how long ago made they were designed to flex in so many ways even the sides could move.  (That side movement let these trucks take a tighter radius then trucks that had solid sides/ frames.        The second surprise has me stumped right now.  I had been using two "fill in" tender trucks while I sought the original Winton ones. The forward one is a pretty decent brass truck that was similar in design to what should have been on this Winton Allegheny and the back truck was a cast metal ( painted brass) Arbour truck from their 2-6-6-6. These both worked fine till I  could find the original set.        I figured I would take two screws out, switch trucks and put the two screws back in and be ready to roll. Funny how things don't work out like you think they should. Take a look at the middle or second picture I sent and you will notice both the original trucks have an insulated piece on the top of the trucks that would go against the bottom of the tender. Unlike the two " fill in" trucks that were metal /brass where electrical pickup was easy once the screw was in place.  The Winton trucks don't work that way. When you put that screw in the middle hole of that insulated piece there is no way to get electrical current from the wheel to the tender body. I checked the drawing, checked all the paperwork I have to assemble the engine and can find nothing that tells me how to correct this problem. Next I have to read the plans on hoseeker which are slightly different then mine to see if something there helps.  Without figuring it out, and hopefully the way the original engine was, my engine will not run because the tender wheels can't get current to the tender body and on to one side of the motor.       While I have come up with a couple of ways to get it to work hat to me is a jury rig not original. I was hoping someone has a working Winton Allegheny or some paperwork that could shed some light on what was the proper way to accomplish this.                                          Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16344	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 3/22/2011
Subject: Re: Original Winton Tender Trucks

JIm, Dot iss vonnderful! Art   In a message dated 3/22/2011 8:43:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jimheck@... writes: Art,             By the way the man from Germany who is trying to build that Winton live steam engine is Egon Berger of Hohenau Germany. I have his Email address and home address as I'm to notify him if I see any thing else. This man builds as lot of live steam.                                                                Jim H ----- Original Message ----- From: luvprr@... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 8:17 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Original Winton Tender Trucks   Jim, Exactly. And his brass stuff was kinda experimental for the times. I've heard (as his real interest was live steam) that he was seriously considering trying to get HO scale to work with live steam. It's for sure that he wanted to produce a wider array of HO locos that modelers could intentionally modify, but it appears (from a letter signed by him that I have to a disappointed customer) that his suppliers were having problems providing him with some basic items he needed for his products already on the market.   Art W    In a message dated 3/22/2011 8:05:35 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jimheck@... writes: Art,               Thanks for the reply. I always had the opinion concerning the Winton Allegheny plans that they were never complete and the builder was to finish  things his way. I guess this is the same. I even started to wonder if the plans were not complete because Winton Brown  didn't know how to finish it himself and left it up to the builder.                                    Jim H                ----- Original Message ----- From: luvprr@... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 7:35 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Original Winton Tender Trucks   Jim, First, you have to remember that in vintage kits especially there are anomalies that are often inexplicable. Also, my understanding of Winton kits is that they were not intended to be exact replicas of prototypes but were loose approximations of them, and the modeler was encouraged to make any modifications desired. While building 2 complete Winton Alleghenies and several Berkshires I gradually came to the conclusion that the design and manufacture of these models were both made somewhat with tongue-in-cheek. Thus I did not spend much time attempting to figure out the rationale of the electrical connections (or lack of them in this case) of the tender trucks but simply went ahead and soldered a wire from the central screw to the metal part of the trucks, keeping the polarity correct while doing so. I think sometimes we get so involved with being precise in reproduction that we make it unnecessarily hard on ourselves. I cringe oftentimes when I see what is done to "restorations" of buildings but realize that some allowances have to be made. Finally, in the case of the Winton kits, I have no doubt that Winton Brown himself would have nodded approval at what modelers felt needed to be done to make his products work to their satisfaction.   Art W In a message dated 3/22/2011 5:51:17 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jimheck@... writes: [Attachment(s) from jim heckard included below]                 For a number of years I have been looking for an original set of Winton Allegheny tender trucks so I could totally complete my assembled and running Winton engine using all original parts. I was finally able to get a set off eBay and when they arrived I was surprised by a number of things.        Remember these engines were made roughly 1950-1954 ( mine is the original first version.) The first thing that struck me was how "intricate" these tucks are. I was surprised by how many parts / pieces it took to create either of the trucks,one with 3 axles ( 6 wheels) and the other with 4 axles ( 8  wheels ). The plans pictured will show you some of the assembly and hopefully the pictures I sent will show more. For how long ago made they were designed to flex in so many ways even the sides could move.  (That side movement let these trucks take a tighter radius then trucks that had solid sides/ frames.        The second surprise has me stumped right now.  I had been using two "fill in" tender trucks while I sought the original Winton ones. The forward one is a pretty decent brass truck that was similar in design to what should have been on this Winton Allegheny and the back truck was a cast metal ( painted brass) Arbour truck from their 2-6-6-6. These both worked fine till I  could find the original set.        I figured I would take two screws out, switch trucks and put the two screws back in and be ready to roll. Funny how things don't work out like you think they should. Take a look at the middle or second picture I sent and you will notice both the original trucks have an insulated piece on the top of the trucks that would go against the bottom of the tender. Unlike the two " fill in" trucks that were metal /brass where electrical pickup was easy once the screw was in place.  The Winton trucks don't work that way. When you put that screw in the middle hole of that insulated piece there is no way to get electrical current from the wheel to the tender body. I checked the drawing, checked all the paperwork I have to assemble the engine and can find nothing that tells me how to correct this problem. Next I have to read the plans on hoseeker which are slightly different then mine to see if something there helps.  Without figuring it out, and hopefully the way the original engine was, my engine will not run because the tender wheels can't get current to the tender body and on to one side of the motor.       While I have come up with a couple of ways to get it to work hat to me is a jury rig not original. I was hoping someone has a working Winton Allegheny or some paperwork that could shed some light on what was the proper way to accomplish this.                                          Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16345	From: jim heckard	Date: 3/22/2011
Subject: Re: Original Winton Tender Trucks

Art,           I'll check if I still have the plans. They were in some train mag and a buddy from CA told me about it and sent me a copy. I'll try to get him to at least get the name of the book it was in. It was part of a book about live steam and the Winton story and pictures were part of it.                                   Jim H ----- Original Message ----- From: luvprr@... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 8:42 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Original Winton Tender Trucks   Wow. That is definitely cool. Wish I had a copy of those plans. Art W   In a message dated 3/22/2011 8:39:40 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jimheck@... writes:      I know a little about his live steam adventure. I have a set of plans for what was going to be a 4-8-4 using the Berk set of 8 drivers. Ebay sold a Winton 0-8-0 frame with the steam chest saddle made for live steam. I had a man from Germany contact me to get him the copy of the 8 wheel live steam Winton drive that showed the individual heavy duty valve gear pieces and how it would be fired by Butane. How the inside of the tender would be piped , etc. The engine was to have a 4 wheel trailing truck to take the extra length needed at the back end. I'm recalling this off the top of my head so I could be off slightly but the set of plans were full size and about 10 pages.  He gave up on it also because he was a machinist and he took off at least one finger. That's one of the reasons he stopped the Allegheny and that third version .   ( Ma Ra ) came about from other people.  I have to check my folders as I still might have the copy of the Winton steam plans but really believe I sent everything to Germany. I know the guy from Germany got the ready for live steam frame, drivers and steam chest saddle for $110.                                                Jim H ----- Original Message ----- From: luvprr@... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 8:17 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Original Winton Tender Trucks   Jim, Exactly. And his brass stuff was kinda experimental for the times. I've heard (as his real interest was live steam) that he was seriously considering trying to get HO scale to work with live steam. It's for sure that he wanted to produce a wider array of HO locos that modelers could intentionally modify, but it appears (from a letter signed by him that I have to a disappointed customer) that his suppliers were having problems providing him with some basic items he needed for his products already on the market.   Art W    In a message dated 3/22/2011 8:05:35 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jimheck@... writes: Art,               Thanks for the reply. I always had the opinion concerning the Winton Allegheny plans that they were never complete and the builder was to finish  things his way. I guess this is the same. I even started to wonder if the plans were not complete because Winton Brown  didn't know how to finish it himself and left it up to the builder.                                    Jim H                ----- Original Message ----- From: luvprr@... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 7:35 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Original Winton Tender Trucks   Jim, First, you have to remember that in vintage kits especially there are anomalies that are often inexplicable. Also, my understanding of Winton kits is that they were not intended to be exact replicas of prototypes but were loose approximations of them, and the modeler was encouraged to make any modifications desired. While building 2 complete Winton Alleghenies and several Berkshires I gradually came to the conclusion that the design and manufacture of these models were both made somewhat with tongue-in-cheek. Thus I did not spend much time attempting to figure out the rationale of the electrical connections (or lack of them in this case) of the tender trucks but simply went ahead and soldered a wire from the central screw to the metal part of the trucks, keeping the polarity correct while doing so. I think sometimes we get so involved with being precise in reproduction that we make it unnecessarily hard on ourselves. I cringe oftentimes when I see what is done to "restorations" of buildings but realize that some allowances have to be made. Finally, in the case of the Winton kits, I have no doubt that Winton Brown himself would have nodded approval at what modelers felt needed to be done to make his products work to their satisfaction.   Art W In a message dated 3/22/2011 5:51:17 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jimheck@... writes: [Attachment(s) from jim heckard included below]                 For a number of years I have been looking for an original set of Winton Allegheny tender trucks so I could totally complete my assembled and running Winton engine using all original parts. I was finally able to get a set off eBay and when they arrived I was surprised by a number of things.        Remember these engines were made roughly 1950-1954 ( mine is the original first version.) The first thing that struck me was how "intricate" these tucks are. I was surprised by how many parts / pieces it took to create either of the trucks,one with 3 axles ( 6 wheels) and the other with 4 axles ( 8  wheels ). The plans pictured will show you some of the assembly and hopefully the pictures I sent will show more. For how long ago made they were designed to flex in so many ways even the sides could move.  (That side movement let these trucks take a tighter radius then trucks that had solid sides/ frames.        The second surprise has me stumped right now.  I had been using two "fill in" tender trucks while I sought the original Winton ones. The forward one is a pretty decent brass truck that was similar in design to what should have been on this Winton Allegheny and the back truck was a cast metal ( painted brass) Arbour truck from their 2-6-6-6. These both worked fine till I  could find the original set.        I figured I would take two screws out, switch trucks and put the two screws back in and be ready to roll. Funny how things don't work out like you think they should. Take a look at the middle or second picture I sent and you will notice both the original trucks have an insulated piece on the top of the trucks that would go against the bottom of the tender. Unlike the two " fill in" trucks that were metal /brass where electrical pickup was easy once the screw was in place.  The Winton trucks don't work that way. When you put that screw in the middle hole of that insulated piece there is no way to get electrical current from the wheel to the tender body. I checked the drawing, checked all the paperwork I have to assemble the engine and can find nothing that tells me how to correct this problem. Next I have to read the plans on hoseeker which are slightly different then mine to see if something there helps.  Without figuring it out, and hopefully the way the original engine was, my engine will not run because the tender wheels can't get current to the tender body and on to one side of the motor.       While I have come up with a couple of ways to get it to work hat to me is a jury rig not original. I was hoping someone has a working Winton Allegheny or some paperwork that could shed some light on what was the proper way to accomplish this.                                          Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16346	From: jim heckard	Date: 3/22/2011
Subject: Re: Original Winton Tender Trucks

Art,         I found the story and the drawings. If you were a machinist you could easily use these plans to make the engine as it was proposed by Winton F Brown.  The book was called    Advanced Model Railroading   by Louise Hertz ( I think you would know that name as he was involved with model trains. The book was published in 1955. . If you are interested in the story and drawings about Winton and his proposed 4-8-4 ( 9 pages ) send me your address off  site to jimheck@.... Give me 3 or 4 days to get a copy made and I'll send it to you ( I have a number of appointments the next two days)                                                    Jim H ----- Original Message ----- From: luvprr@... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 8:45 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Original Winton Tender Trucks   JIm, Dot iss vonnderful! Art   In a message dated 3/22/2011 8:43:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jimheck@... writes: Art,             By the way the man from Germany who is trying to build that Winton live steam engine is Egon Berger of Hohenau Germany. I have his Email address and home address as I'm to notify him if I see any thing else. This man builds as lot of live steam.                                                                Jim H ----- Original Message ----- From: luvprr@... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 8:17 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Original Winton Tender Trucks   Jim, Exactly. And his brass stuff was kinda experimental for the times. I've heard (as his real interest was live steam) that he was seriously considering trying to get HO scale to work with live steam. It's for sure that he wanted to produce a wider array of HO locos that modelers could intentionally modify, but it appears (from a letter signed by him that I have to a disappointed customer) that his suppliers were having problems providing him with some basic items he needed for his products already on the market.   Art W    In a message dated 3/22/2011 8:05:35 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jimheck@... writes: Art,               Thanks for the reply. I always had the opinion concerning the Winton Allegheny plans that they were never complete and the builder was to finish  things his way. I guess this is the same. I even started to wonder if the plans were not complete because Winton Brown  didn't know how to finish it himself and left it up to the builder.                                    Jim H                ----- Original Message ----- From: luvprr@... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 7:35 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Original Winton Tender Trucks   Jim, First, you have to remember that in vintage kits especially there are anomalies that are often inexplicable. Also, my understanding of Winton kits is that they were not intended to be exact replicas of prototypes but were loose approximations of them, and the modeler was encouraged to make any modifications desired. While building 2 complete Winton Alleghenies and several Berkshires I gradually came to the conclusion that the design and manufacture of these models were both made somewhat with tongue-in-cheek. Thus I did not spend much time attempting to figure out the rationale of the electrical connections (or lack of them in this case) of the tender trucks but simply went ahead and soldered a wire from the central screw to the metal part of the trucks, keeping the polarity correct while doing so. I think sometimes we get so involved with being precise in reproduction that we make it unnecessarily hard on ourselves. I cringe oftentimes when I see what is done to "restorations" of buildings but realize that some allowances have to be made. Finally, in the case of the Winton kits, I have no doubt that Winton Brown himself would have nodded approval at what modelers felt needed to be done to make his products work to their satisfaction.   Art W In a message dated 3/22/2011 5:51:17 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jimheck@... writes: [Attachment(s) from jim heckard included below]                 For a number of years I have been looking for an original set of Winton Allegheny tender trucks so I could totally complete my assembled and running Winton engine using all original parts. I was finally able to get a set off eBay and when they arrived I was surprised by a number of things.        Remember these engines were made roughly 1950-1954 ( mine is the original first version.) The first thing that struck me was how "intricate" these tucks are. I was surprised by how many parts / pieces it took to create either of the trucks,one with 3 axles ( 6 wheels) and the other with 4 axles ( 8  wheels ). The plans pictured will show you some of the assembly and hopefully the pictures I sent will show more. For how long ago made they were designed to flex in so many ways even the sides could move.  (That side movement let these trucks take a tighter radius then trucks that had solid sides/ frames.        The second surprise has me stumped right now.  I had been using two "fill in" tender trucks while I sought the original Winton ones. The forward one is a pretty decent brass truck that was similar in design to what should have been on this Winton Allegheny and the back truck was a cast metal ( painted brass) Arbour truck from their 2-6-6-6. These both worked fine till I  could find the original set.        I figured I would take two screws out, switch trucks and put the two screws back in and be ready to roll. Funny how things don't work out like you think they should. Take a look at the middle or second picture I sent and you will notice both the original trucks have an insulated piece on the top of the trucks that would go against the bottom of the tender. Unlike the two " fill in" trucks that were metal /brass where electrical pickup was easy once the screw was in place.  The Winton trucks don't work that way. When you put that screw in the middle hole of that insulated piece there is no way to get electrical current from the wheel to the tender body. I checked the drawing, checked all the paperwork I have to assemble the engine and can find nothing that tells me how to correct this problem. Next I have to read the plans on hoseeker which are slightly different then mine to see if something there helps.  Without figuring it out, and hopefully the way the original engine was, my engine will not run because the tender wheels can't get current to the tender body and on to one side of the motor.       While I have come up with a couple of ways to get it to work hat to me is a jury rig not original. I was hoping someone has a working Winton Allegheny or some paperwork that could shed some light on what was the proper way to accomplish this.                                          Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16347	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 3/23/2011
Subject: Re: Original Winton Tender Trucks [3 Attachments]

Jim, As you may remember, I have a working Winton Allegheny. I'm taking a look now at the tender (been a long time since I built it), and I have very flexible (small gage multi-strand-wrapped) copper wire soldered to the brass part of the trucks that straddle the insulated portion in question, nearest the center of the tender, and is attached to the truck side frames. The brass pieces I'm talking about are clearly seen as the very shiney metal in your first photo of looking down onto the trucks -- there is a section of brass to either end of the center/mounting hole of the truck, on the insulated piece. As I stated, a wire is soldered to the brass section nearest to center of the tender itself -- as there's a hole (I don't remember if I drilled it or whether it was already there -- check yours) about 3/16" to 1/4" in diameter in the center of the tender floor which these wires (one from each truck) are routed through. Then, there are two smaller holes at the front of the tender to either side, in the recess just above the platform under which the drawbar is attached. I guess you might regard that area as the tender's coal doors on those engines that were hand-fired, but of course not on an Allegheny which must have had a stoker. Anyway, the two wires are routed through these smaller holes (about 1/16" diameter) and female plugs are attached to the wire ends to mate with male plugs from the engine. I no longer have the plans for this Winton Brown version, but have them for my Ma Ra Allegheny, although I doubt this portion is the same. I will check them out though, and if useable, I'll send you a Ma Ra plan copy. Ray F. W. </HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16348	From: jim heckard	Date: 3/23/2011
Subject: Re: Original Winton Tender Trucks

Hi Ray,           Good to hear from you . At least you survived those little dustings of snow New Jersey got. Appreciate very much you explaining how your Winton Allegheny tender gets the power where it needs to go. I think the thing that upset me the most is I expected to take out two screws, take the fill in tender trucks off, put the original Winton trucks on  and put the two screws back in. 5 minute job. Going to take slightly longer.                                                                Jim H ----- Original Message ----- From: erieberk@... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 10:27 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Original Winton Tender Trucks   Jim, As you may remember, I have a working Winton Allegheny. I'm taking a look now at the tender (been a long time since I built it), and I have very flexible (small gage multi-strand-wrapped) copper wire soldered to the brass part of the trucks that straddle the insulated portion in question, nearest the center of the tender, and is attached to the truck side frames. The brass pieces I'm talking about are clearly seen as the very shiney metal in your first photo of looking down onto the trucks -- there is a section of brass to either end of the center/mounting hole of the truck, on the insulated piece. As I stated, a wire is soldered to the brass section nearest to center of the tender itself -- as there's a hole (I don't remember if I drilled it or whether it was already there -- check yours) about 3/16" to 1/4" in diameter in the center of the tender floor which these wires (one from each truck) are routed through. Then, there are two smaller holes at the front of the tender to either side, in the recess just above the platform under which the drawbar is attached. I guess you might regard that area as the tender's coal doors on those engines that were hand-fired, but of course not on an Allegheny which must have had a stoker. Anyway, the two wires are routed through these smaller holes (about 1/16" diameter) and female plugs are attached to the wire ends to mate with male plugs from the engine. I no longer have the plans for this Winton Brown version, but have them for my Ma Ra Allegheny, although I doubt this portion is the same. I will check them out though, and if useable, I'll send you a Ma Ra plan copy. Ray F. W. </HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16349	From: Nelson	Date: 3/23/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2

Jim, were the version 3 drivers all metal, or did they have metal tires on plastic centers? I could never tell from the pictures I've seen. Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > There were 3 versions of the early Athearn 4-6-2 Pacific sold. ( assuming that is the Athearn steam you are talking about and not a newer version )The first two runs, one roughly in 1960 and one in 1961 had pickup from the tender with wires going from the tender to the engine. The later and last version made and sold from 1962 -1965 had electrical pickup in the engine only and the tender went along for a free ride. To see if you have this version just put the two leads from a train transformer to both sides of the drivers and it should run if the engine is working properly. (It would have blackened Metal Drivers and the brass worm gear from the motor would be attached to the middle driver for further ID ). > > You might have one style of tender wired for tender pickup and an engine that picked up all power itself. If you have access to a Greenberg Guide to Athearn trains you could read about the types. You can go to www.hoseeker.net click on literature , find Athearn and pull up the paperwork for an Athearn 4-6-2 but not sure what versions he has. > > Can't help with the lead truck for the early Athearn 4-6-2 and not sure what scale wheel size it was but sure you could match a Varney or Mantua pilot / lead truck to it. Depending on the type of engine as far as electrical pickup you might have to be careful to use a completely insulated ( all wheels ) lead truck. > > Good luck. > > Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16350	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 3/23/2011
Subject: Re: Original Winton Tender Trucks

Jim,   I will take a look at my complete and assembled Winton and let you know what I find - as you may already know....   Sean   1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! From: jim heckard <jimheck@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, March 23, 2011 10:34:27 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Original Winton Tender Trucks   Hi Ray,           Good to hear from you . At least you survived those little dustings of snow New Jersey got. Appreciate very much you explaining how your Winton Allegheny tender gets the power where it needs to go. I think the thing that upset me the most is I expected to take out two screws, take the fill in tender trucks off, put the original Winton trucks on  and put the two screws back in. 5 minute job. Going to take slightly longer.                                                                Jim H ----- Original Message ----- From: erieberk@... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 10:27 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Original Winton Tender Trucks   Jim, As you may remember, I have a working Winton Allegheny. I'm taking a look now at the tender (been a long time since I built it), and I have very flexible (small gage multi-strand-wrapped) copper wire soldered to the brass part of the trucks that straddle the insulated portion in question, nearest the center of the tender, and is attached to the truck side frames. The brass pieces I'm talking about are clearly seen as the very shiney metal in your first photo of looking down onto the trucks -- there is a section of brass to either end of the center/mounting hole of the truck, on the insulated piece. As I stated, a wire is soldered to the brass section nearest to center of the tender itself -- as there's a hole (I don't remember if I drilled it or whether it was already there -- check yours) about 3/16" to 1/4" in diameter in the center of the tender floor which these wires (one from each truck) are routed through. Then, there are two smaller holes at the front of the tender to either side, in the recess just above the platform under which the drawbar is attached. I guess you might regard that area as the tender's coal doors on those engines that were hand-fired, but of course not on an Allegheny which must have had a stoker. Anyway, the two wires are routed through these smaller holes (about 1/16" diameter) and female plugs are attached to the wire ends to mate with male plugs from the engine. I no longer have the plans for this Winton Brown version, but have them for my Ma Ra Allegheny, although I doubt this portion is the same. I will check them out though, and if useable, I'll send you a Ma Ra plan copy. Ray F. W. </HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16351	From: jim heckard	Date: 3/23/2011
Subject: Athearn 4-6-2 3rd or last version sold.

Attachments : IMG_6884_2_1.JPG IMG_6882_1_1.JPG Hi Nelson,      I want to make sure we are on the same page. Athearn had 4 versions of the 4-6-2 but only the last 3 were sold to the public . By 3rd one I am assuming you mean the last one sold to the public. 1962-1965.      The drivers on this version were solid blackened METAL with nickel rims. Remember this last  version had the entire electrical pick up in the engine and the solid metal drivers were needed to do that ( The tender on this version was along for the ride. )       I hope I am answering the question you ask .                                       Jim H

@@attachment@@

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16352	From: corlissbs@aol.com	Date: 3/23/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2

One version had all plastic drivers and the later one had all metal drivers.  I have one of each in my collection.  The plastic driver model is for display cases only, in my opinion.   Brad Smith Franklin, WI   In a message dated 3/23/2011 10:40:15 A.M. Central Daylight Time, greenbrier614@... writes:   Jim, were the version 3 drivers all metal, or did they have metal tires on plastic centers? I could never tell from the pictures I've seen. Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > There were 3 versions of the early Athearn 4-6-2 Pacific sold. ( assuming that is the Athearn steam you are talking about and not a newer version )The first two runs, one roughly in 1960 and one in 1961 had pickup from the tender with wires going from the tender to the engine. The later and last version made and sold from 1962 -1965 had electrical pickup in the engine only and the tender went along for a free ride. To see if you have this version just put the two leads from a train transformer to both sides of the drivers and it should run if the engine is working properly. (It would have blackened Metal Drivers and the brass worm gear from the motor would be attached to the middle driver for further ID ). > > You might have one style of tender wired for tender pickup and an engine that picked up all power itself. If you have access to a Greenberg Guide to Athearn trains you could read about the types. You can go to www.hoseeker.net click on literature , find Athearn and pull up the paperwork for an Athearn 4-6-2 but not sure what versions he has. > > Can't help with the lead truck for the early Athearn 4-6-2 and not sure what scale wheel size it was but sure you could match a Varney or Mantua pilot / lead truck to it. Depending on the type of engine as far as electrical pickup you might have to be careful to use a completely insulated ( all wheels ) lead truck. > > Good luck. > > Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16353	From: jim heckard	Date: 3/23/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2

     Just to clarify the first TWO versions sold had plastic drivers, and both had tender electrical pick up. The first version had plastic drivers with no strip and the second had plastic drivers with a white strip. The last or 3rd version had metal drivers with electrical pick up in the engine only and the tender just went along for the ride.       In my opinion I agree that the neither plastic driver version were great  runners and the metal driver version not much better and why none of the versions lasted in production long . In fact along with the 0-6-0 and the 0-4-2 being far from decent and problems with the 4-6-2's is why Athearn stopped producing steam engines for a long time.                                                  Jim H ----- Original Message ----- From: corlissbs@... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 4:28 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Athearn 4-6-2   One version had all plastic drivers and the later one had all metal drivers.  I have one of each in my collection.  The plastic driver model is for display cases only, in my opinion.   Brad Smith Franklin, WI   In a message dated 3/23/2011 10:40:15 A.M. Central Daylight Time, greenbrier614@... writes:   Jim, were the version 3 drivers all metal, or did they have metal tires on plastic centers? I could never tell from the pictures I've seen. Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > There were 3 versions of the early Athearn 4-6-2 Pacific sold. ( assuming that is the Athearn steam you are talking about and not a newer version )The first two runs, one roughly in 1960 and one in 1961 had pickup from the tender with wires going from the tender to the engine. The later and last version made and sold from 1962 -1965 had electrical pickup in the engine only and the tender went along for a free ride. To see if you have this version just put the two leads from a train transformer to both sides of the drivers and it should run if the engine is working properly. (It would have blackened Metal Drivers and the brass worm gear from the motor would be attached to the middle driver for further ID ). > > You might have one style of tender wired for tender pickup and an engine that picked up all power itself. If you have access to a Greenberg Guide to Athearn trains you could read about the types. You can go to www.hoseeker.net click on literature , find Athearn and pull up the paperwork for an Athearn 4-6-2 but not sure what versions he has. > > Can't help with the lead truck for the early Athearn 4-6-2 and not sure what scale wheel size it was but sure you could match a Varney or Mantua pilot / lead truck to it. Depending on the type of engine as far as electrical pickup you might have to be careful to use a completely insulated ( all wheels ) lead truck. > > Good luck. > > Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16354	From: corlissbs@aol.com	Date: 3/23/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2

Jim, you are correct.  The Athearn steamers looked great, but were nothing but problems.  However the B&M Historical society published an article in their modeling newsletter on how to convert the Athearn 4-6-2 into a very nice running locomotive.  It is a dead ringer for a B&M Pacific.   Brad Smith

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16355	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 3/23/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2

My first ever H0 steamer was an Athearn 0-4-2T. That lasted less than a year, second steamer was an Athearn 0-4-2T, lasted even less (and mechanically they were different...I have bits of both, still). Basically, size of axles, opening in sideframes, how the sideframes mounted, etc. That said, figured I should have one to explain to folks how bad they were, so I got one, and even cleaned and lubed, it runs about as bad as I remember. So, I found an 0-6-0, that seems to run better. Someday, just so I can show all, I need to find one of them Pacifics. > Just to clarify the first TWO versions sold had plastic drivers, and both had tender electrical pick up. The first version had plastic drivers with no strip and the second had plastic drivers with a white strip. The last or 3rd version had metal drivers with electrical pick up in the engine only and the tender just went along for the ride. > > In my opinion I agree that the neither plastic driver version were great runners and the metal driver version not much better and why none of the versions lasted in production long . In fact along with the 0-6-0 and the 0-4-2 being far from decent and problems with the 4-6-2's is why Athearn stopped producing steam engines for a long time. > > Jim H > ----- Original Message ----- > From: corlissbs@... > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 4:28 PM > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Athearn 4-6-2 > > > > > One version had all plastic drivers and the later one had all metal drivers. I have one of each in my collection. The plastic driver model is for display cases only, in my opinion. > > Brad Smith > Franklin, WI > > In a message dated 3/23/2011 10:40:15 A.M. Central Daylight Time, greenbrier614@... writes: > > Jim, were the version 3 drivers all metal, or did they have metal tires on plastic centers? I could never tell from the pictures I've seen. > > Nelson > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@> wrote: > > > > > > There were 3 versions of the early Athearn 4-6-2 Pacific sold. ( assuming that is the Athearn steam you are talking about and not a newer version )The first two runs, one roughly in 1960 and one in 1961 had pickup from the tender with wires going from the tender to the engine. The later and last version made and sold from 1962 -1965 had electrical pickup in the engine only and the tender went along for a free ride. To see if you have this version just put the two leads from a train transformer to both sides of the drivers and it should run if the engine is working properly. (It would have blackened Metal Drivers and the brass worm gear from the motor would be attached to the middle driver for further ID ). > > > > You might have one style of tender wired for tender pickup and an engine that picked up all power itself. If you have access to a Greenberg Guide to Athearn trains you could read about the types. You can go to www.hoseeker.net click on literature , find Athearn and pull up the paperwork for an Athearn 4-6-2 but not sure what versions he has. > > > > Can't help with the lead truck for the early Athearn 4-6-2 and not sure what scale wheel size it was but sure you could match a Varney or Mantua pilot / lead truck to it. Depending on the type of engine as far as electrical pickup you might have to be careful to use a completely insulated ( all wheels ) lead truck. > > > > Good luck. > > > > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16356	From: bluenosedviking	Date: 3/24/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2

Brad, Did the Historical Society article discuss electrical and mechanical modifications? Also, what volume was it in? Kurt --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, corlissbs@... wrote: > > Jim, you are correct. The Athearn steamers looked great, but were nothing > but problems. However the B&M Historical society published an article in > their modeling newsletter on how to convert the Athearn 4-6-2 into a very > nice running locomotive. It is a dead ringer for a B&M Pacific. > > Brad Smith >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16357	From: corlissbs@aol.com	Date: 3/24/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2

Kurt:   It was about two years ago.  I just made a mental note of it.  I believe it ran in two of their issues.  Here is their web site.  You will have to contact them and purchase the back issues.  They did a very nice job of reworking the locomotive.   http://www.trainweb.org/bmrrhs/   Brad

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16358	From: docdenny34	Date: 3/24/2011
Subject: Re: Original Winton Tender Trucks

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> wrote: >. When you put that screw in the middle hole of that insulated piece there is no way to get electrical current from the wheel to the tender body.....;my engine will not run because the tender wheels can't get current to the tender body and on to one side of the motor. > The method that Winton used was to secure the trucks with a 4-40 screws inserted from below; and then above the floor apply, first an insulated washers (if "hat" insulated bushings are not already provided.. they should be), then a standard washer, then an open spring to take up the slack, and finishing with TWO hex nuts. Standard open-lug solder terminals are then secured between the two tightened nuts, the two lugs connected with a wire, and a final wire to the locomotive soldered to the forward lug. The tender body is neutral, and the power is transmitted only through the trucks' king pins. The wire can be snaked forward to the locomotive through a drilled hole in the tender floor; or through a hole in the face of the tender underneath the tender deck (this was an open area on the prototype occupied by the stoker screw and machinery. Denny Denny S. Anspach, MD Sacramento

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16359	From: jim heckard	Date: 3/24/2011
Subject: Re: Original Winton Tender Trucks

Doctor Denny,        Thanks for the reply. I appreciate the explanation. One other Winton Allegheny owner , Ray F W. sent basically the same idea about putting the wiring inside the tender body and fishing it out the front end where he has a female connection to go into the engine's male connection. As you say the tender body remains neutral       I wonder, with the tender already assembled how possibly it would be to "fish " those wires through and out very small holes. Without disassembling and opening the tender body I won't be able to use the insulated washer, standard washer, the open spring for slack and the two hex nuts.  I might not be able to do it at this point in time.and might have to do something else but I really like to do things as they were originally done.      I will print out the description you sent for myself  Is there a drawing you have of the explanation you sent showing the set up  that was used by Winton that I could pay you for a copy of it so I have it in my files ?                                      Jim H   ----- Original Message ----- From: docdenny34 To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 11:49 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Original Winton Tender Trucks   --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> wrote: >. When you put that screw in the middle hole of that insulated piece there is no way to get electrical current from the wheel to the tender body.....;my engine will not run because the tender wheels can't get current to the tender body and on to one side of the motor. > The method that Winton used was to secure the trucks with a 4-40 screws inserted from below; and then above the floor apply, first an insulated washers (if "hat" insulated bushings are not already provided.. they should be), then a standard washer, then an open spring to take up the slack, and finishing with TWO hex nuts. Standard open-lug solder terminals are then secured between the two tightened nuts, the two lugs connected with a wire, and a final wire to the locomotive soldered to the forward lug. The tender body is neutral, and the power is transmitted only through the trucks' king pins. The wire can be snaked forward to the locomotive through a drilled hole in the tender floor; or through a hole in the face of the tender underneath the tender deck (this was an open area on the prototype occupied by the stoker screw and machinery. Denny Denny S. Anspach, MD Sacramento

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16360	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 3/24/2011
Subject: Re: Original Winton Tender Trucks

Doc Denny, I am confused, Doc. I believe that Jim H.'s truck bolster is non-conductive. How is the power conducted from the sideframe to the 4-40 screw in the first place? What piece of the puzzle am I missing? Sorry for being so obtuse! On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 11:49 AM, docdenny34 <danspach@...> wrote:   --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> wrote: >. When you put that screw in the middle hole of that insulated piece there is no way to get electrical current from the wheel to the tender body.....;my engine will not run because the tender wheels can't get current to the tender body and on to one side of the motor. > The method that Winton used was to secure the trucks with a 4-40 screws inserted from below; and then above the floor apply, first an insulated washers (if "hat" insulated bushings are not already provided.. they should be), then a standard washer, then an open spring to take up the slack, and finishing with TWO hex nuts. Standard open-lug solder terminals are then secured between the two tightened nuts, the two lugs connected with a wire, and a final wire to the locomotive soldered to the forward lug. The tender body is neutral, and the power is transmitted only through the trucks' king pins. The wire can be snaked forward to the locomotive through a drilled hole in the tender floor; or through a hole in the face of the tender underneath the tender deck (this was an open area on the prototype occupied by the stoker screw and machinery. Denny Denny S. Anspach, MD Sacramento -- Regards, Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16361	From: Jack Kelley	Date: 3/24/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2

There are five installments so far; the first being Issue 115 (July/August 2008) Jack Kelley --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, corlissbs@... wrote: > > Kurt: > > It was about two years ago. I just made a mental note of it. I believe > it ran in two of their issues. Here is their web site. You will have to > contact them and purchase the back issues. They did a very nice job of > reworking the locomotive. > > _http://www.trainweb.org/bmrrhs/_ (http://www.trainweb.org/bmrrhs/) > > Brad >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16362	From: bluenosedviking	Date: 3/24/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2

On the web site they only seem to go to issue 75, although 74 has some modeling information on the P4. So do the subsequent issues commencing at 115 have any information on electrical/mechanical improvements? Kurt --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Jack Kelley" <jkelley01938@...> wrote: > > > There are five installments so far; the first being Issue 115 (July/August 2008) > > Jack Kelley > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, corlissbs@ wrote: > > > > Kurt: > > > > It was about two years ago. I just made a mental note of it. I believe > > it ran in two of their issues. Here is their web site. You will have to > > contact them and purchase the back issues. They did a very nice job of > > reworking the locomotive. > > > > _http://www.trainweb.org/bmrrhs/_ (http://www.trainweb.org/bmrrhs/) > > > > Brad > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16363	From: Donald R. Staton	Date: 3/24/2011
Subject: Re: Original Winton Tender Trucks

Jim, in a similar situation on a locomotive that I built, I used a very flexible hookup wire with dark gray or black covering from the frame of one truck to the frame of the next truck and from the front truck out to the front end of the tender where I fastened the wire to a bracket on the back side of a front step and then left slack enough to allow for taking curves and still connect to the wire coming from the loco.  This allows for running and does not alter anything. Don Staton in Va. Beach, Va. =========================================================================== On 3/24/2011 12:40 PM, jim heckard wrote:       Doctor Denny,        Thanks for the reply. I appreciate the explanation. One other Winton Allegheny owner , Ray F W. sent basically the same idea about putting the wiring inside the tender body and fishing it out the front end where he has a female connection to go into the engine's male connection. As you say the tender body remains neutral       I wonder, with the tender already assembled how possibly it would be to "fish " those wires through and out very small holes. Without disassembling and opening the tender body I won't be able to use the insulated washer, standard washer, the open spring for slack and the two hex nuts.  I might not be able to do it at this point in time.and might have to do something else but I really like to do things as they were originally done.      I will print out the description you sent for myself  Is there a drawing you have of the explanation you sent showing the set up  that was used by Winton that I could pay you for a copy of it so I have it in my files ?                                      Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16364	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 3/24/2011
Subject: Re: Original Winton Tender Trucks

Jim, HH.   Jim,   The following link will take you to the tender truck connection for my Winton. Sorry, I took the pic with m cell so it's kinda crude, but it works...   http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/5556385395/    Sean

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16365	From: VtHam	Date: 3/25/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2

Jack is correct. Part 1 of the article by Dave McMullian appeared in the Boston and Maine Railroad Historical Society's Modelers Notes, Issue #115, July - August 2008. Part ll was in Issue #118, January - February 2009. Part lll was in Issue #121, July - August 2009. There was a "parts change" list of detail parts published in Issue #123, November -December 2009. Part lV was in Issue #126, May - June 2010. There was supposed to be a Part V but I'm not sure if and when it will be published. I will be glad to post the info on it as soon as I find out. By the way, Dave McMullian has done an awesome job with this project. Richard Hamann in Vermont

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16366	From: bluenosedviking	Date: 3/25/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2

Thank you, Richard. Did any of those articles deal with electrical/mechanical improvements? Kurt --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "VtHam" <rh@...> wrote: > > Jack is correct. Part 1 of the article by Dave McMullian appeared in the Boston and Maine Railroad Historical Society's Modelers Notes, Issue #115, July - August 2008. > Part ll was in Issue #118, January - February 2009. > Part lll was in Issue #121, July - August 2009. > There was a "parts change" list of detail parts published in Issue #123, November -December 2009. > Part lV was in Issue #126, May - June 2010. > There was supposed to be a Part V but I'm not sure if and when it will be published. I will be glad to post the info on it as soon as I find out. By the way, Dave McMullian has done an awesome job with this project. > Richard Hamann in Vermont >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16367	From: dennyanspach	Date: 3/25/2011
Subject: Re: Original Winton Tender Trucks

I have presumed that the tender body itself can be removed from the tender floor simply by removing some screws in the corners, but perhaps Jim Heckard's  tender body has been soldered to the floor (Winton's instructions leave an awful lot of  specific assembly directions to the builder, which explains to a great part why no two of these locomotives are built alike).  If so, the fat is in the fire as to just how to secure the trucks to the tender. If not, then the fastening of the trucks and the wiring can be easily done with the tender body out of the way. IF the tender body cannot be removed, then a good Plan B would be to take the insulated body bolsters, drill and tap them for 6-32 screws (4-40 will not work because they are already drilled clear), and then firmly cement the bolsters in place with either Barge Cement or epoxy (Barge would be better).  This would obviate any need for any internal nuts or wiring.  Then solder or fasten wire from one truck bolster (the truck -not the body- bolsters are brass)  to the next on to the locomotive. The tenders did not change a great deal between the two Winton models- the wrappers are largely if not exactly the same, while the truck frames and other cast details changed a great deal.  The truck mountings also did not change in any significant way.   The internal method of wiring that I have described was what I have found in an original Winton model, the first  such assembled of second version marketed by MaRa; and as as been increasingly likely, assembled with some  Winton consultation or oversight. The wiring connection to the locomotive was through a simple axial plug connection.  The locomotive wire was soldered to the end of a water pipe so that it looked "natural". Manufacturer and builder lived only miles apart, and both were fellows in the very close knit circle of Bay Area brass custom locomotive builders that existed there at the time. As I have before mentioned, this is the exact finished locomotive model depicted in MaRa's advertisements. A local friend has two of the first 2-6-6-6s, and the comparison between the two versions is fascinating. Denny    Denny S.  Anspach MD Sacramento

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16368	From: Nelson	Date: 3/25/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2

Also, does anyone know if these articles cover modifications for all versions of the Pacific, or just one? Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "bluenosedviking" <bluenosedviking@...> wrote: > > > Thank you, Richard. Did any of those articles deal with electrical/mechanical improvements? > > Kurt > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "VtHam" <rh@> wrote: > > > > Jack is correct. Part 1 of the article by Dave McMullian appeared in the Boston and Maine Railroad Historical Society's Modelers Notes, Issue #115, July - August 2008. > > Part ll was in Issue #118, January - February 2009. > > Part lll was in Issue #121, July - August 2009. > > There was a "parts change" list of detail parts published in Issue #123, November -December 2009. > > Part lV was in Issue #126, May - June 2010. > > There was supposed to be a Part V but I'm not sure if and when it will be published. I will be glad to post the info on it as soon as I find out. By the way, Dave McMullian has done an awesome job with this project. > > Richard Hamann in Vermont > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16369	From: Nelson	Date: 3/25/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2

I'd rather have the metal drivers, but my version 2 with plastic drivers runs pretty well after tweaking, though the motor is still noisy. I'm still considering rare earth magnets for the motor, but that won't help the bearing noise. I think the right diameter NWSL can motor would fit inside the old motor housing, and the end bells could be modified to turn it into a mount. Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, corlissbs@... wrote: > > One version had all plastic drivers and the later one had all metal > drivers. I have one of each in my collection. The plastic driver model is for > display cases only, in my opinion. > > Brad Smith > Franklin, WI

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16370	From: jim heckard	Date: 3/25/2011
Subject: Decision made on Winton tender trucks

Attachments : IMG_6891_3_1.JPG IMG_6887_2_1.JPG IMG_6885_1_1.JPG          I have decided how I will attach the original Winton Allegheny tender trucks to my tender that had the "fill in" trucks on it. Thanks to the many people, even from other sites, I have made a decision how I will do it. If finally got a little get up and go to start the project.      The idea I will use will most closely follow one that was suggested . I would have liked to use Denny A or Ray F W  ideas of running the wires through the tender body but didn't think I could do it that way because tender was completed and I didn't want to open it up or try to fish the wires through.. Let me use the pictures to try to explain how I will accomplish attaching the original trucks.      First thing is I am cleaning the black paint off the original trucks to show the brass and I have also checked to make sure everything including tender trucks can be used to pick up electricity from the rails and get it to the motor in the engine with no shorts.      First picture shows the Winton tender from my engine sitting on track with the "fill in" trucks I was using. In front are the 2 original Winton trucks I will be using and the Winton body that came with them ( which is already sold.).     Second picture shows my engine and tender with the original Winton tender trucks under it to check the height with the engine.     Third picture shows the bottom of my Winton Allegheny tender with the original Winton trucks I will be putting on.       Now for what I will do. I was lucky to find that I had metal bolsters already under my tender that conduct electricity and are threaded. After taking roughly 1/32 to 1 /16 of the top of the bolsters where the screws go and making the even so both trucks sit exactly at the same height where the top of the tender will be level I will put the trucks on using screws that will have a washer under the head. These washers will have skinny flexible wire soldered to them and a length to reach a metal area inside the trucks and solder it there ( somewhere between those insulated bolsters and the inside of the metal side frames ) allowing a little surplus for the trucks to  turn/swing freely. This way you will not see any of this connection from just looking at the engine/tender from the side unless you pick the tender up and turn it completely over.       Should be a fairly easy job to do and not take a lot of time. When done I just attach the wire coming from the engine / motor back into the threaded hole at the front of the tender and if all goes well have the electric pick up I need from tender wheel on the rail up to the motor in the cab which has the other pickup from the engine itself.      If any one sees a flaw in this plan speak up. I'm 99.99% sure it will work as I had it "jury rigged" at first to see before the final connections are done.                                       Jim H

@@attachment@@

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16371	From: bluenosedviking	Date: 3/25/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2

Nelson, how is your slow speed running with the plastic drivered unit? Kurt --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Nelson" <greenbrier614@...> wrote: > > I'd rather have the metal drivers, but my version 2 with plastic drivers runs pretty well after tweaking, though the motor is still noisy. I'm still considering rare earth magnets for the motor, but that won't help the bearing noise. I think the right diameter NWSL can motor would fit inside the old motor housing, and the end bells could be modified to turn it into a mount. > > Nelson > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, corlissbs@ wrote: > > > > One version had all plastic drivers and the later one had all metal > > drivers. I have one of each in my collection. The plastic driver model is for > > display cases only, in my opinion. > > > > Brad Smith > > Franklin, WI >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16372	From: Nelson	Date: 3/25/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2 3rd or last version sold.

Thanks Jim, you nailed it. You assumed right. I was referring to the final run, since the 1st version was only an prototype model that never saw the light of day, so I don't think of it as a legit version. Thanks for the sharp closeups... I didn't expect you to go to that kind of trouble. In every photo I'd seen of these the centers just looked black, so I assumed they just modified the molds for the plastic drivers, and stuck metal rims on them. They're a lot nicer than the plastic, and look a lot like Mantua's Boxpoks. The only advantage to the plastic drivers was the keying Athearn used that allows them to be easily removed without worrying about quartering. Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> wrote: > > Hi Nelson, > > I want to make sure we are on the same page. Athearn had 4 versions of the 4-6-2 but only the last 3 were sold to the public . By 3rd one I am assuming you mean the last one sold to the public. 1962-1965. > > The drivers on this version were solid blackened METAL with nickel rims. Remember this last version had the entire electrical pick up in the engine and the solid metal drivers were needed to do that ( The tender on this version was along for the ride. ) > > I hope I am answering the question you ask . > > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16373	From: Nelson	Date: 3/25/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2

It's quite good, although it has to be throttled back when it warms up because the speed increases. I lightened up the spring pressure on the brushes (like most open frame motors, the spring tension is much greater than necessary), and keep the commutator oil free for maximum torque. There's no hesitation, though. The pickup in the tender works very well, but did take some adjusting. I think I was lucky that the unit I bought was exceptionally clean, so there was no tarnish on the truck bolsters to insulate them from the tender frame. I also used a little conductive lube on the axle points & bolsters for good measure. The biggest problem was adjusting the drawbar so that it didn't rest on the trailing truck and lift the tender, or cause derailments in reverse. I don't know if there was originally a spring for the trailing truck, but there are provisions for it, so I installed a small coil spring between it and the drawbar, and that seemed to help it track better with the drawbar bent upwards a bit. The stiffness of the wires between the engine and tender can be a problem too, and if not routed properly seemed to cause the tender to tip and lose contact on curves. Smaller gauge wire would cause less interference. I think I also polished the tender wheels with a Dremel brush. Just my 2 cents. Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "bluenosedviking" <bluenosedviking@...> wrote: > > > Nelson, how is your slow speed running with the plastic drivered unit? > > Kurt > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Nelson" <greenbrier614@> wrote: > > > > I'd rather have the metal drivers, but my version 2 with plastic drivers runs pretty well after tweaking, though the motor is still noisy. I'm still considering rare earth magnets for the motor, but that won't help the bearing noise. I think the right diameter NWSL can motor would fit inside the old motor housing, and the end bells could be modified to turn it into a mount. > > > > Nelson > > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, corlissbs@ wrote: > > > > > > One version had all plastic drivers and the later one had all metal > > > drivers. I have one of each in my collection. The plastic driver model is for > > > display cases only, in my opinion. > > > > > > Brad Smith > > > Franklin, WI > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16374	From: bluenosedviking	Date: 3/26/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2

Nelson, thank you for that. I've struggled with the same problem, further aggravated by two 90 degree crossings in series at the WRJ station. The wheel span of the tender just does not seem to always manage to cope. So I fitted metal wheels and wipers on the leading and trailing trucks on the locomotive. At first it was a derailment disaster but then I learned to use very, very light wire. That did the trick. Last week I replaced the motor with a cheap ($5) can motor and the locomotive can now actually crawl over my less than perfect track work. The current draw is down to 0.2Amp. Cheers, Kurt --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Nelson" <greenbrier614@...> wrote: > > It's quite good, although it has to be throttled back when it warms up because the speed increases. I lightened up the spring pressure on the brushes (like most open frame motors, the spring tension is much greater than necessary), and keep the commutator oil free for maximum torque. There's no hesitation, though. > > The pickup in the tender works very well, but did take some adjusting. I think I was lucky that the unit I bought was exceptionally clean, so there was no tarnish on the truck bolsters to insulate them from the tender frame. I also used a little conductive lube on the axle points & bolsters for good measure. The biggest problem was adjusting the drawbar so that it didn't rest on the trailing truck and lift the tender, or cause derailments in reverse. I don't know if there was originally a spring for the trailing truck, but there are provisions for it, so I installed a small coil spring between it and the drawbar, and that seemed to help it track better with the drawbar bent upwards a bit. The stiffness of the wires between the engine and tender can be a problem too, and if not routed properly seemed to cause the tender to tip and lose contact on curves. Smaller gauge wire would cause less interference. I think I also polished the tender wheels with a Dremel brush. > > Just my 2 cents. > > Nelson > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "bluenosedviking" <bluenosedviking@> wrote: > > > > > > Nelson, how is your slow speed running with the plastic drivered unit? > > > > Kurt > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Nelson" <greenbrier614@> wrote: > > > > > > I'd rather have the metal drivers, but my version 2 with plastic drivers runs pretty well after tweaking, though the motor is still noisy. I'm still considering rare earth magnets for the motor, but that won't help the bearing noise. I think the right diameter NWSL can motor would fit inside the old motor housing, and the end bells could be modified to turn it into a mount. > > > > > > Nelson > > > > > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, corlissbs@ wrote: > > > > > > > > One version had all plastic drivers and the later one had all metal > > > > drivers. I have one of each in my collection. The plastic driver model is for > > > > display cases only, in my opinion. > > > > > > > > Brad Smith > > > > Franklin, WI > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16375	From: dennyanspach	Date: 3/26/2011
Subject: Re: Decision made on Winton tender trucks

Very interesting photos.  The detailed cast brass trucks (with sprung three axle Buckeye truck)  in the background are most probably also Winton. They seem to be identical to those supplied with the 2nd generation Allegheny.  I was mistaken when I described the truck bolster as brass and the body bolster as insulated - this is what it is on my Winton tender, and what I recall was on an earlier tender owned by an elderly friend.  By the photograph provided, it is obvious that on Jim Heckard's tender, it is just the reverse.  I spent some time and finally located  the instructions for the earlier Winton, and the instructions (undated) depict exactly the same trucks that JH has;  and the instructions  for wiring -brief!- are as JH proposes:  "14.  Since the tender body is fully insulated from the truck it will be necessary to solder a pick up wire on the front truck bolster          and run it to the locomotive. (This wire not furnished). " From these instructions, I would presume that Winton thought that just picking up power from the front truck alone sufficed. I wonder whether or not that in the  slow transition between the two versions, Winton might not have supplied a mix of parts as the parts became available. For the first time in my hands, I  recently partially dismantled my MaRa Allegheny for some heavy maintenance.  There were a number of very interesting, and some surprising findings, not the least of which was a reminder once again of the superb engineering.   I plan to report more fully soon.   Denny Denny S.  Anspach MD Sacramento

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16376	From: jim heckard	Date: 3/26/2011
Subject: Winton Allegheny Versions ???

Attachments : IMG_6916_1.JPG Denny A, All,           Before I explain the picture above I want to thank Denny A for his responses concerning the Winton Allegheny and versions. It is because of these types of exchanges we learn more all the time and are able to distinguish fact from fiction.       I know over many years I assumed things I would hear about this Winton Allegheny and it was hard to tell if it was the truth.  While we have discussed this engine in the past ( and I have printed out everything Dr Ansbach has stated ) it seems there is still much to learn. I hope what I had shared has helped him in return. I doubt we will ever get everything down pat 100% but it won't be because we didn't try      First it was interesting now to learn the "fill in" front truck I had on my Winton tender might be a Winton item used on the MaRa version. I want to let Denny know this truck has JAPAN stamped on the underside. I don't know if that would mean it was or wasn't used on the last version Winton Allegheny.       Denny also mentioned how it seemed Winton Brown left things off his plans that made the builder complete the engine using whatever way the builder wanted to go. I had always wondered if the reason he never listed how to finish these things was he never knew how to do it even to the point I wondered if he ever built one of his own engines.       I want to reprint the first page of my 5 page printed instructions ( which came with 5 huge assembly sheets of drawings )entitled                                                                   " Introduction "       " This kit is designed for the  man who has experience in building model locomotives or equal mechanical ability.  It is not intended to give step by step instruction but rather leave the actual construction to the builder. This gives the builder the chance to express his own ideas and not to copy the manufacturer. The principal thing is to have a good operating locomotive regardless of the method used. These instructions are the foundation from which you can build to suit your own individual desire.  GOOD LUCK.       This will explain why no two finished engines are done exactly the same.        Now onto the picture which was sent by a friend in CA to the HOSC&H-SIG  with the possibility that there were 3 versions of the Winton Allegheny. The top picture is the first version like I have with no castings in the kit. The last picture I believe is the Ma Ra  version with lost wax castings. ( final version )      It is the middle picture that became the discussion piece with no final conclusion. Was it a middle Winton Allegheny version or had someone started to modify it using the main Winton parts ?  Open for any discussion .                                              Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 16377	From: Howard R Garner	Date: 3/26/2011
Subject: Update for Ulrich Cars list

Today I picked up an Ulrich GS 52' Gondola Road C&S Number 17235 Color Tuscan This is listed as Kit 115 Cat # GS-9 on line 295 Seq 294 of the file V List Ulrich cars.xls in the files section of the group. The above information is missing. Appears in the 1959 catalog listing, road name not listed in the 1960 catalog. (Ref HOSeeker.com) Howard Garner sometime collector

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16378	From: Richard	Date: 3/26/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2

Kurt, Nelson and others, Dave McMullian's B&M P-4 article is split up into five parts: 1) Chassis, drive mechanism, and running gear. 2) Installation of Tsunami sound decoder, speaker and axle cam. 3) Body and chassis modifications. 4) Detailing 5) Painting, decaling and weathering. The Athearn model that Dave rebuilt, in his article, was the plastic wheeled engine. I am currently rebuilding one of the latter production units with metal drivers which requires a few changes in the way he rebuilt his plastic wheeled model. I have several of these engines with both plastic and metal drivers. I learned the hard way not to bother with the first production units that had the axle gear protruding thru the bottom cover plate. I got my plastic wheeled engines to run well by adding wipers so that the tender had all wheel pick-up. My goal now with the metal wheeled engine is to have it run just as quiet and smooth as anything being produced today. I'm pretty sure I can do that, thanks to Dave's great article. Richard Hamann in Vermont --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "bluenosedviking" <bluenosedviking@...> wrote: > > > Thank you, Richard. Did any of those articles deal with electrical/mechanical improvements? > > Kurt > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "VtHam" <rh@> wrote: > > > > Jack is correct. Part 1 of the article by Dave McMullian appeared in the Boston and Maine Railroad Historical Society's Modelers Notes, Issue #115, July - August 2008. > > Part ll was in Issue #118, January - February 2009. > > Part lll was in Issue #121, July - August 2009. > > There was a "parts change" list of detail parts published in Issue #123, November -December 2009. > > Part lV was in Issue #126, May - June 2010. > > There was supposed to be a Part V but I'm not sure if and when it will be published. I will be glad to post the info on it as soon as I find out. By the way, Dave McMullian has done an awesome job with this project. > > Richard Hamann in Vermont > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16379	From: Donald R. Staton	Date: 3/26/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2

In your maintenance examine all the plastic bushings that join the axles together, especially the one with the gear on it.  Most of mine wound up with split bushings and split gears and the half axles fell out...  Even on those that had never been run. I used the first issue with the large metal gear to re-power a Hudson using a plastic Berkshire boiler.  I did several modifications along the way and it turned out to run real well.  It has been so long that I do not remember all the things I did to it... The two most useful things I did was to glue shims on the cover plate at the axle center lines to remove the bearing slop and attach the lead truck with a spring wire attached to a screw at the front of the cover plate and a screw on the truck frame.  Both things made the loco track much better. I wonder it we could get permission to reproduce those articles on this forum so the many of us interested might get the benefit of them?  I still have several locomotives I have never done anything further with. Don Staton in Va. Beach, Va. ================================================================================================ On 3/26/2011 8:30 PM, Richard wrote:   Kurt, Nelson and others, Dave McMullian's B&M P-4 article is split up into five parts: 1) Chassis, drive mechanism, and running gear. 2) Installation of Tsunami sound decoder, speaker and axle cam. 3) Body and chassis modifications. 4) Detailing 5) Painting, decaling and weathering. The Athearn model that Dave rebuilt, in his article, was the plastic wheeled engine. I am currently rebuilding one of the latter production units with metal drivers which requires a few changes in the way he rebuilt his plastic wheeled model. I have several of these engines with both plastic and metal drivers. I learned the hard way not to bother with the first production units that had the axle gear protruding thru the bottom cover plate. I got my plastic wheeled engines to run well by adding wipers so that the tender had all wheel pick-up. My goal now with the metal wheeled engine is to have it run just as quiet and smooth as anything being produced today. I'm pretty sure I can do that, thanks to Dave's great article. Richard Hamann in Vermont --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "bluenosedviking" <bluenosedviking@...> wrote: > > > Thank you, Richard. Did any of those articles deal with electrical/mechanical improvements? > > Kurt > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "VtHam" <rh@> wrote: > > > > Jack is correct. Part 1 of the article by Dave McMullian appeared in the Boston and Maine Railroad Historical Society's Modelers Notes, Issue #115, July - August 2008. > > Part ll was in Issue #118, January - February 2009. > > Part lll was in Issue #121, July - August 2009. > > There was a "parts change" list of detail parts published in Issue #123, November -December 2009. > > Part lV was in Issue #126, May - June 2010. > > There was supposed to be a Part V but I'm not sure if and when it will be published. I will be glad to post the info on it as soon as I find out. By the way, Dave McMullian has done an awesome job with this project. > > Richard Hamann in Vermont > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16380	From: jim heckard	Date: 3/26/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2

Richard, Kurt, Nelson, All,       I have been busy with other replies and information but have been following your thread. I thought you might like to hear what I am doing with a first version Athearn 4-6-2  having plastic drivers.       With out getting to deep into the story Ahearn's first 4-6-2 was supposed to be rubber band driven. They never panned out and never were sold although some " walked" out of the Athearn factory. ( I've never seen one but some have told me supposedly how they worked ) There has been a lot of past discussion here and other sites as to how these were to be powered / driven. No definite answers .      As a fun project for myself and just going on my own ideas I am taking that first version with plastic drivers and trying to recreate a RBD production engine. I'm not going to send pictures yet because everything is just held together with rubber bands ( no pun intended) and chewing gum but I will give you an idea of what I am playing around with.      I have taken an old Athearn Rubber Band motor with the metal drive shafts on both ends. I attached the motor in the cab of the 4-6-2 while being aware of clearences. The back metal drive shaft flexes at the back of the motor and extends into the tender so that the engine and tender are able to flex independent. As many of you know Athearn used the same heavy axled wheel sets, that were used for RBD engines / RDC's, for the tender trucks of all the versions of their 4-6-2 Pacifics. It was easy to add a support for the metal drive shaft inside the tender, take out some of the tender floor and add rubber bands from the powered metal drive shaft down onto the heavy axles of the tender. Getting power up to the motor in the cab still using the two wires from the front of the tender and still using the tender wheel sets to pick up current from the rails lets the tender be powered using rubber bands.      But it will not run right with only the tender half RBD powered.  The other shaft at the front is supported inside the engine boiler body but I am having some difficulty deciding which 2 of the sets of plastic drivers to use for putting rubber bands on that can go up and on the  metal drive shaft above to power the engine. I have tried a number of ways, without total success so far, because I must create heavy axles ( same out side diameter as the tender axle ) for the plastic drivers which I will use as they are not needed to pick up power. ( Athearn originally created these plastic drivers for what they felt would be good pulling power and not create much slippage on the rails. Didn't work to well because as they picked up dirt from the rail they lost traction. Maybe people running the Athearn 4-6-2 Pacific's should take note and wipe off / clean the plastic driver surfaces for better traction.)      Just thought you might get a kick of this Rube Goldberg idea and prototype. I  hope my explanation of progress so far understandable. If I ever have total success I will send pictures and fully explain what I had to do. (Can't give all the secrets away yet.)                                       Jim H.         ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2011 8:30 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Athearn 4-6-2   Kurt, Nelson and others, Dave McMullian's B&M P-4 article is split up into five parts: 1) Chassis, drive mechanism, and running gear. 2) Installation of Tsunami sound decoder, speaker and axle cam. 3) Body and chassis modifications. 4) Detailing 5) Painting, decaling and weathering. The Athearn model that Dave rebuilt, in his article, was the plastic wheeled engine. I am currently rebuilding one of the latter production units with metal drivers which requires a few changes in the way he rebuilt his plastic wheeled model. I have several of these engines with both plastic and metal drivers. I learned the hard way not to bother with the first production units that had the axle gear protruding thru the bottom cover plate. I got my plastic wheeled engines to run well by adding wipers so that the tender had all wheel pick-up. My goal now with the metal wheeled engine is to have it run just as quiet and smooth as anything being produced today. I'm pretty sure I can do that, thanks to Dave's great article. Richard Hamann in Vermont --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "bluenosedviking" <bluenosedviking@...> wrote: > > > Thank you, Richard. Did any of those articles deal with electrical/mechanical improvements? > > Kurt > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "VtHam" <rh@> wrote: > > > > Jack is correct. Part 1 of the article by Dave McMullian appeared in the Boston and Maine Railroad Historical Society's Modelers Notes, Issue #115, July - August 2008. > > Part ll was in Issue #118, January - February 2009. > > Part lll was in Issue #121, July - August 2009. > > There was a "parts change" list of detail parts published in Issue #123, November -December 2009. > > Part lV was in Issue #126, May - June 2010. > > There was supposed to be a Part V but I'm not sure if and when it will be published. I will be glad to post the info on it as soon as I find out. By the way, Dave McMullian has done an awesome job with this project. > > Richard Hamann in Vermont > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16381	From: VtHam	Date: 3/26/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2

I just found out that Part 5, of Dave McMullians article in B&M'a Modelers Notes has been published in their January - February issue #130, if anyone is interested. Richard Hamann in Vermont

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16382	From: Richard	Date: 3/26/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2

Have you considered using plastic chain instead of rubber bands, such as the ones in MicroMarks catalog? Richard Hamann in Vermont --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> wrote: > > Richard, Kurt, Nelson, All, > > I have been busy with other replies and information but have been following your thread. I thought you might like to hear what I am doing with a first version Athearn 4-6-2 having plastic drivers. > > With out getting to deep into the story Ahearn's first 4-6-2 was supposed to be rubber band driven. They never panned out and never were sold although some " walked" out of the Athearn factory. ( I've never seen one but some have told me supposedly how they worked ) There has been a lot of past discussion here and other sites as to how these were to be powered / driven. No definite answers . > > As a fun project for myself and just going on my own ideas I am taking that first version with plastic drivers and trying to recreate a RBD production engine. I'm not going to send pictures yet because everything is just held together with rubber bands ( no pun intended) and chewing gum but I will give you an idea of what I am playing around with. > > I have taken an old Athearn Rubber Band motor with the metal drive shafts on both ends. I attached the motor in the cab of the 4-6-2 while being aware of clearences. The back metal drive shaft flexes at the back of the motor and extends into the tender so that the engine and tender are able to flex independent. As many of you know Athearn used the same heavy axled wheel sets, that were used for RBD engines / RDC's, for the tender trucks of all the versions of their 4-6-2 Pacifics. It was easy to add a support for the metal drive shaft inside the tender, take out some of the tender floor and add rubber bands from the powered metal drive shaft down onto the heavy axles of the tender. Getting power up to the motor in the cab still using the two wires from the front of the tender and still using the tender wheel sets to pick up current from the rails lets the tender be powered using rubber bands. > > But it will not run right with only the tender half RBD powered. The other shaft at the front is supported inside the engine boiler body but I am having some difficulty deciding which 2 of the sets of plastic drivers to use for putting rubber bands on that can go up and on the metal drive shaft above to power the engine. I have tried a number of ways, without total success so far, because I must create heavy axles ( same out side diameter as the tender axle ) for the plastic drivers which I will use as they are not needed to pick up power. ( Athearn originally created these plastic drivers for what they felt would be good pulling power and not create much slippage on the rails. Didn't work to well because as they picked up dirt from the rail they lost traction. Maybe people running the Athearn 4-6-2 Pacific's should take note and wipe off / clean the plastic driver surfaces for better traction.) > > Just thought you might get a kick of this Rube Goldberg idea and prototype. I hope my explanation of progress so far understandable. If I ever have total success I will send pictures and fully explain what I had to do. (Can't give all the secrets away yet.) > > Jim H. > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Richard > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2011 8:30 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Athearn 4-6-2 > > > > Kurt, Nelson and others, > Dave McMullian's B&M P-4 article is split up into five parts: > 1) Chassis, drive mechanism, and running gear. > 2) Installation of Tsunami sound decoder, speaker and axle cam. > 3) Body and chassis modifications. > 4) Detailing > 5) Painting, decaling and weathering. > The Athearn model that Dave rebuilt, in his article, was the plastic wheeled engine. I am currently rebuilding one of the latter production units with metal drivers which requires a few changes in the way he rebuilt his plastic wheeled model. I have several of these engines with both plastic and metal drivers. I learned the hard way not to bother with the first production units that had the axle gear protruding thru the bottom cover plate. I got my plastic wheeled engines to run well by adding wipers so that the tender had all wheel pick-up. My goal now with the metal wheeled engine is to have it run just as quiet and smooth as anything being produced today. I'm pretty sure I can do that, thanks to Dave's great article. > Richard Hamann in Vermont > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "bluenosedviking" <bluenosedviking@> wrote: > > > > > > Thank you, Richard. Did any of those articles deal with electrical/mechanical improvements? > > > > Kurt > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "VtHam" <rh@> wrote: > > > > > > Jack is correct. Part 1 of the article by Dave McMullian appeared in the Boston and Maine Railroad Historical Society's Modelers Notes, Issue #115, July - August 2008. > > > Part ll was in Issue #118, January - February 2009. > > > Part lll was in Issue #121, July - August 2009. > > > There was a "parts change" list of detail parts published in Issue #123, November -December 2009. > > > Part lV was in Issue #126, May - June 2010. > > > There was supposed to be a Part V but I'm not sure if and when it will be published. I will be glad to post the info on it as soon as I find out. By the way, Dave McMullian has done an awesome job with this project. > > > Richard Hamann in Vermont > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16383	From: Richard	Date: 3/26/2011
Subject: Casting a Pilot?

I have a very old Aristocraft 4-4-2 that took an unfortunate dive to the floor and broke off it's pilot. I also have another exact same engine with a good pilot. I keep looking at the good one and wondering if there is a way to make a casting of the pilot for the broken engine. Has anyone on this list every done anything like this. If so, would you please tell me how it's done. Thanks. Richard in Vermont

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16384	From: jake_iv@juno.com	Date: 3/26/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2

Hi Jim, Just a thought on your Rube Goldberg RBD.  KISS -- keep it really simple and easy to demonstrate how to assemble with a minimum of explanation.  At the time those pacifics were designed Irv had a work force largely composed of Mexican "green card" workers who crossed the border either daily or weekly, took the train to LA and worked off all those burritos.  The ladies did good work and became quite skilled with time but they were not well educated or exceptionally literate in English.   For driver axles - you can fill the centers of the original drum axles (use the Hustler or RDC RBD axles from athearn parts) with Versa Chem Plastic Welder and then bore/drill the centers to size to fit the plastic drivers.  The stuff is used to repair plastic auto parts and has a 3500 PSI strength factor and after 2 or 3 days room temp dry time has negligible shrinkage with age. Just a thought or two. Jake

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16385	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 3/26/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2

Clever idea, but just one thought. The drum diameter on the drivers cannot be the same as the tender because of the larger driver diameter. If you make the drum diameter the same the linear velocity of the drivers will be much greater than that of the tender wheels. The axle drums will need to be much larger, i.e. "higher gear ratio" to slow the drivers down so they're trying to move down the track at the same speed as the tender trucks. Then there's the question of, with no outside frame, how would the powered axles in the locomotive be supported? Don ----- Original Message ----- From: "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2011 8:48 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Athearn 4-6-2 Richard, Kurt, Nelson, All, I have been busy with other replies and information but have been following your thread. I thought you might like to hear what I am doing with a first version Athearn 4-6-2 having plastic drivers. With out getting to deep into the story Ahearn's first 4-6-2 was supposed to be rubber band driven. They never panned out and never were sold although some " walked" out of the Athearn factory. ( I've never seen one but some have told me supposedly how they worked ) There has been a lot of past discussion here and other sites as to how these were to be powered / driven. No definite answers . As a fun project for myself and just going on my own ideas I am taking that first version with plastic drivers and trying to recreate a RBD production engine. I'm not going to send pictures yet because everything is just held together with rubber bands ( no pun intended) and chewing gum but I will give you an idea of what I am playing around with. I have taken an old Athearn Rubber Band motor with the metal drive shafts on both ends. I attached the motor in the cab of the 4-6-2 while being aware of clearences. The back metal drive shaft flexes at the back of the motor and extends into the tender so that the engine and tender are able to flex independent. As many of you know Athearn used the same heavy axled wheel sets, that were used for RBD engines / RDC's, for the tender trucks of all the versions of their 4-6-2 Pacifics. It was easy to add a support for the metal drive shaft inside the tender, take out some of the tender floor and add rubber bands from the powered metal drive shaft down onto the heavy axles of the tender. Getting power up to the motor in the cab still using the two wires from the front of the tender and still using the tender wheel sets to pick up current from the rails lets the tender be powered using rubber bands. But it will not run right with only the tender half RBD powered. The other shaft at the front is supported inside the engine boiler body but I am having some difficulty deciding which 2 of the sets of plastic drivers to use for putting rubber bands on that can go up and on the metal drive shaft above to power the engine. I have tried a number of ways, without total success so far, because I must create heavy axles ( same out side diameter as the tender axle ) for the plastic drivers which I will use as they are not needed to pick up power. ( Athearn originally created these plastic drivers for what they felt would be good pulling power and not create much slippage on the rails. Didn't work to well because as they picked up dirt from the rail they lost traction. Maybe people running the Athearn 4-6-2 Pacific's should take note and wipe off / clean the plastic driver surfaces for better traction.) Just thought you might get a kick of this Rube Goldberg idea and prototype. I hope my explanation of progress so far understandable. If I ever have total success I will send pictures and fully explain what I had to do. (Can't give all the secrets away yet.) Jim H. ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2011 8:30 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Athearn 4-6-2 Kurt, Nelson and others, Dave McMullian's B&M P-4 article is split up into five parts: 1) Chassis, drive mechanism, and running gear. 2) Installation of Tsunami sound decoder, speaker and axle cam. 3) Body and chassis modifications. 4) Detailing 5) Painting, decaling and weathering. The Athearn model that Dave rebuilt, in his article, was the plastic wheeled engine. I am currently rebuilding one of the latter production units with metal drivers which requires a few changes in the way he rebuilt his plastic wheeled model. I have several of these engines with both plastic and metal drivers. I learned the hard way not to bother with the first production units that had the axle gear protruding thru the bottom cover plate. I got my plastic wheeled engines to run well by adding wipers so that the tender had all wheel pick-up. My goal now with the metal wheeled engine is to have it run just as quiet and smooth as anything being produced today. I'm pretty sure I can do that, thanks to Dave's great article. Richard Hamann in Vermont --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "bluenosedviking" <bluenosedviking@...> wrote: > > > Thank you, Richard. Did any of those articles deal with electrical/mechanical improvements? > > Kurt > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "VtHam" <rh@> wrote: > > > > Jack is correct. Part 1 of the article by Dave McMullian appeared in the Boston and Maine Railroad Historical Society's Modelers Notes, Issue #115, July - August 2008. > > Part ll was in Issue #118, January - February 2009. > > Part lll was in Issue #121, July - August 2009. > > There was a "parts change" list of detail parts published in Issue #123, November -December 2009. > > Part lV was in Issue #126, May - June 2010. > > There was supposed to be a Part V but I'm not sure if and when it will be published. I will be glad to post the info on it as soon as I find out. By the way, Dave McMullian has done an awesome job with this project. > > Richard Hamann in Vermont > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16386	From: jake_iv@juno.com	Date: 3/27/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2

Oh Don, you're just trying to wake me up and get Al Zeimer to go home aren't you? Let's start with a new look - let's start with making the driving shaft (motor) and the driven shaft (driver axle) the same diameter and use the existing driver mountings for the boiler.  That reduces the problem (after a number of calculations).  That would get us to a question of how many revolutions of the tender wheel does it take equal one revolution of the loco drivers. Once we get there we need to increase the circumference of the driving shaft in the tender propotionately.  I am not a math whiz but it seems like if the circumference of the drivers is 5x the circmference of the tender wheels we would need to increase the circumference of the tender driving shaft to produce 5 revolutions of the tender wheels each time the drivers rotate once.  I know that is really over simplifying the question but that is where I would start.  Mic the drivers and mic the tender wheels, determine the circumference of each and based on the ration of the two - increase the circumference of the drive shaft in the tender proportionatley.  Maybe? I thk I'm getting to old for this deep thinking in the wee hours. . . . Jake

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16387	From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com	Date: 3/27/2011
Subject: New file uploaded to vintageHO

Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the vintageHO group. File : /V List Ulrich cars.xls Uploaded by : chuckie208755 <vze5crrw1@...> Description : List of Ulrich cars and models You can access this file at the URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/files/V%20List%20Ulrich%20cars.xls To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/groups/original/members/web/index.html Regards, chuckie208755 <vze5crrw1@...>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16388	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 3/27/2011
Subject: Re: Update for Ulrich Cars list

Thanks Howard,   The file has been updated to reflect this information.   Take care,   Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Howard R Garner Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2011 7:23 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Update for Ulrich Cars list     Today I picked up an Ulrich GS 52' Gondola Road C&S Number 17235 Color Tuscan This is listed as Kit 115 Cat # GS-9 on line 295 Seq 294 of the file V List Ulrich cars.xls in the files section of the group. The above information is missing. Appears in the 1959 catalog listing, road name not listed in the 1960 catalog. (Ref HOSeeker.com) Howard Garner sometime collector

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16389	From: jim heckard	Date: 3/27/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2

Hi Richard,        The main reason I'm even fooling around with this is to see if an Athearn Pacific could be powered using  Rubber Band Drive. Using chain would defeat the purpose.                                   Jim H     ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 27, 2011 12:05 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Athearn 4-6-2   Have you considered using plastic chain instead of rubber bands, such as the ones in MicroMarks catalog? Richard Hamann in Vermont --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> wrote: > > Richard, Kurt, Nelson, All, > > I have been busy with other replies and information but have been following your thread. I thought you might like to hear what I am doing with a first version Athearn 4-6-2 having plastic drivers. > > With out getting to deep into the story Ahearn's first 4-6-2 was supposed to be rubber band driven. They never panned out and never were sold although some " walked" out of the Athearn factory. ( I've never seen one but some have told me supposedly how they worked ) There has been a lot of past discussion here and other sites as to how these were to be powered / driven. No definite answers . > > As a fun project for myself and just going on my own ideas I am taking that first version with plastic drivers and trying to recreate a RBD production engine. I'm not going to send pictures yet because everything is just held together with rubber bands ( no pun intended) and chewing gum but I will give you an idea of what I am playing around with. > > I have taken an old Athearn Rubber Band motor with the metal drive shafts on both ends. I attached the motor in the cab of the 4-6-2 while being aware of clearences. The back metal drive shaft flexes at the back of the motor and extends into the tender so that the engine and tender are able to flex independent. As many of you know Athearn used the same heavy axled wheel sets, that were used for RBD engines / RDC's, for the tender trucks of all the versions of their 4-6-2 Pacifics. It was easy to add a support for the metal drive shaft inside the tender, take out some of the tender floor and add rubber bands from the powered metal drive shaft down onto the heavy axles of the tender. Getting power up to the motor in the cab still using the two wires from the front of the tender and still using the tender wheel sets to pick up current from the rails lets the tender be powered using rubber bands. > > But it will not run right with only the tender half RBD powered. The other shaft at the front is supported inside the engine boiler body but I am having some difficulty deciding which 2 of the sets of plastic drivers to use for putting rubber bands on that can go up and on the metal drive shaft above to power the engine. I have tried a number of ways, without total success so far, because I must create heavy axles ( same out side diameter as the tender axle ) for the plastic drivers which I will use as they are not needed to pick up power. ( Athearn originally created these plastic drivers for what they felt would be good pulling power and not create much slippage on the rails. Didn't work to well because as they picked up dirt from the rail they lost traction. Maybe people running the Athearn 4-6-2 Pacific's should take note and wipe off / clean the plastic driver surfaces for better traction.) > > Just thought you might get a kick of this Rube Goldberg idea and prototype. I hope my explanation of progress so far understandable. If I ever have total success I will send pictures and fully explain what I had to do. (Can't give all the secrets away yet.) > > Jim H. > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Richard > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2011 8:30 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Athearn 4-6-2 > > > > Kurt, Nelson and others, > Dave McMullian's B&M P-4 article is split up into five parts: > 1) Chassis, drive mechanism, and running gear. > 2) Installation of Tsunami sound decoder, speaker and axle cam. > 3) Body and chassis modifications. > 4) Detailing > 5) Painting, decaling and weathering. > The Athearn model that Dave rebuilt, in his article, was the plastic wheeled engine. I am currently rebuilding one of the latter production units with metal drivers which requires a few changes in the way he rebuilt his plastic wheeled model. I have several of these engines with both plastic and metal drivers. I learned the hard way not to bother with the first production units that had the axle gear protruding thru the bottom cover plate. I got my plastic wheeled engines to run well by adding wipers so that the tender had all wheel pick-up. My goal now with the metal wheeled engine is to have it run just as quiet and smooth as anything being produced today. I'm pretty sure I can do that, thanks to Dave's great article. > Richard Hamann in Vermont > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "bluenosedviking" <bluenosedviking@> wrote: > > > > > > Thank you, Richard. Did any of those articles deal with electrical/mechanical improvements? > > > > Kurt > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "VtHam" <rh@> wrote: > > > > > > Jack is correct. Part 1 of the article by Dave McMullian appeared in the Boston and Maine Railroad Historical Society's Modelers Notes, Issue #115, July - August 2008. > > > Part ll was in Issue #118, January - February 2009. > > > Part lll was in Issue #121, July - August 2009. > > > There was a "parts change" list of detail parts published in Issue #123, November -December 2009. > > > Part lV was in Issue #126, May - June 2010. > > > There was supposed to be a Part V but I'm not sure if and when it will be published. I will be glad to post the info on it as soon as I find out. By the way, Dave McMullian has done an awesome job with this project. > > > Richard Hamann in Vermont > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16390	From: jim heckard	Date: 3/27/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2

Hi Don,       Like I said, Still work to do, ideas and designs to try, to get it to work.           I realize that the RPM of the motor drives those metal drive shafts the same speed and that they are the same OD. I know the OD of the Tender wheels ( wheel and axle ) have already been  engineered by Athearn and work .  I can run the tender powered with the drivers in the engine free wheeling. Only thing I have to decide here is to RBD power 2 or 4 tender axle. Still toying around with that.      Now onto the Plastic drivers. which also having a much larger OD can't run at the same speeds with the axle for them being the same as the tender trucks. This is a starting point shall we say as I intend to play with the diameter or the driver axles to try to get the speed equalized. I intend that the Plastic Driver axle OD with need to be changed to accomplish this and is where I am playing around. I am planning to use only one RBD driver but that could change as I fool around.       I'm slightly lost at you  saying " with no outside frame , how would the powered axle(s) be supported. ( Tender or Engine ??? )First the Driver axles would still be held in place by the plastic piece holding all the drivers in place now. ( While it is not my option remember that  Athearn RBD engines it is the band holding the trucks of the diesels to the engine and when it breaks the wheels with their frames fall off can fall off   After I read the 2 emails still waiting from Jake I will send a picture of what I have just tried to explain using a first version Athearn Pacific from my collection, not this sorry looking prototype. I should have sent it with this message but forgot to take it.                                                                   Jim H   ----- Original Message ----- From: Don Dellmann To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 27, 2011 2:45 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Athearn 4-6-2   Clever idea, but just one thought. The drum diameter on the drivers cannot be the same as the tender because of the larger driver diameter. If you make the drum diameter the same the linear velocity of the drivers will be much greater than that of the tender wheels. The axle drums will need to be much larger, i.e. "higher gear ratio" to slow the drivers down so they're trying to move down the track at the same speed as the tender trucks. Then there's the question of, with no outside frame, how would the powered axles in the locomotive be supported? Don ----- Original Message ----- From: "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2011 8:48 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Athearn 4-6-2 Richard, Kurt, Nelson, All, I have been busy with other replies and information but have been following your thread. I thought you might like to hear what I am doing with a first version Athearn 4-6-2 having plastic drivers. With out getting to deep into the story Ahearn's first 4-6-2 was supposed to be rubber band driven. They never panned out and never were sold although some " walked" out of the Athearn factory. ( I've never seen one but some have told me supposedly how they worked ) There has been a lot of past discussion here and other sites as to how these were to be powered / driven. No definite answers . As a fun project for myself and just going on my own ideas I am taking that first version with plastic drivers and trying to recreate a RBD production engine. I'm not going to send pictures yet because everything is just held together with rubber bands ( no pun intended) and chewing gum but I will give you an idea of what I am playing around with. I have taken an old Athearn Rubber Band motor with the metal drive shafts on both ends. I attached the motor in the cab of the 4-6-2 while being aware of clearences. The back metal drive shaft flexes at the back of the motor and extends into the tender so that the engine and tender are able to flex independent. As many of you know Athearn used the same heavy axled wheel sets, that were used for RBD engines / RDC's, for the tender trucks of all the versions of their 4-6-2 Pacifics. It was easy to add a support for the metal drive shaft inside the tender, take out some of the tender floor and add rubber bands from the powered metal drive shaft down onto the heavy axles of the tender. Getting power up to the motor in the cab still using the two wires from the front of the tender and still using the tender wheel sets to pick up current from the rails lets the tender be powered using rubber bands. But it will not run right with only the tender half RBD powered. The other shaft at the front is supported inside the engine boiler body but I am having some difficulty deciding which 2 of the sets of plastic drivers to use for putting rubber bands on that can go up and on the metal drive shaft above to power the engine. I have tried a number of ways, without total success so far, because I must create heavy axles ( same out side diameter as the tender axle ) for the plastic drivers which I will use as they are not needed to pick up power. ( Athearn originally created these plastic drivers for what they felt would be good pulling power and not create much slippage on the rails. Didn't work to well because as they picked up dirt from the rail they lost traction. Maybe people running the Athearn 4-6-2 Pacific's should take note and wipe off / clean the plastic driver surfaces for better traction.) Just thought you might get a kick of this Rube Goldberg idea and prototype. I hope my explanation of progress so far understandable. If I ever have total success I will send pictures and fully explain what I had to do. (Can't give all the secrets away yet.) Jim H. ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2011 8:30 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Athearn 4-6-2 Kurt, Nelson and others, Dave McMullian's B&M P-4 article is split up into five parts: 1) Chassis, drive mechanism, and running gear. 2) Installation of Tsunami sound decoder, speaker and axle cam. 3) Body and chassis modifications. 4) Detailing 5) Painting, decaling and weathering. The Athearn model that Dave rebuilt, in his article, was the plastic wheeled engine. I am currently rebuilding one of the latter production units with metal drivers which requires a few changes in the way he rebuilt his plastic wheeled model. I have several of these engines with both plastic and metal drivers. I learned the hard way not to bother with the first production units that had the axle gear protruding thru the bottom cover plate. I got my plastic wheeled engines to run well by adding wipers so that the tender had all wheel pick-up. My goal now with the metal wheeled engine is to have it run just as quiet and smooth as anything being produced today. I'm pretty sure I can do that, thanks to Dave's great article. Richard Hamann in Vermont --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "bluenosedviking" <bluenosedviking@...> wrote: > > > Thank you, Richard. Did any of those articles deal with electrical/mechanical improvements? > > Kurt > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "VtHam" <rh@> wrote: > > > > Jack is correct. Part 1 of the article by Dave McMullian appeared in the Boston and Maine Railroad Historical Society's Modelers Notes, Issue #115, July - August 2008. > > Part ll was in Issue #118, January - February 2009. > > Part lll was in Issue #121, July - August 2009. > > There was a "parts change" list of detail parts published in Issue #123, November -December 2009. > > Part lV was in Issue #126, May - June 2010. > > There was supposed to be a Part V but I'm not sure if and when it will be published. I will be glad to post the info on it as soon as I find out. By the way, Dave McMullian has done an awesome job with this project. > > Richard Hamann in Vermont > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16391	From: jim heckard	Date: 3/27/2011
Subject: First version Athearn Pacific

Attachments : IMG_6921_2.JPG IMG_6920_1.JPG   Richard, Don, Jake,        The picture I sent is the bottom of the Athearn Pacific 1st version from my collection and not the piece of " basket case" I am working with.         Again I am trying to create an Athearn RBD Pacific that "might" be something like Athearn tried to do (all guessing ). I am not a mathematician nor a design engine. Most of what I am doing in this case is to try something to see if it works or gets better or worse. While maybe I should do precise figuring ( rotation and speed to be even ) and measure ( micrometer to get exact ) this is as I said a Rube Goldberg attempt to see if it is possible.  If I hit on something then it's back to  a better engine to work with and a more permanent prototype.         The picture shows the underside of the first version of the Athearn Pacific. Since I would be changing motor/ drive the large gear on the back driver will come off and have an axle replace it and become a dummy. It won't matter OD as I plan only trying to power one or both of the other plastic drivers.       Don    You will notice that there is a whole plastic piece spanning the 3 drivers which I plan on keeping to hold the drivers in  the slots of the frame.      You will also notice the two silver like metal drums that are part of the axles for the front two drivers. This is where I plan to get the drivers to spin the speed needed equal to the tender wheels. They will be cut or remade with lips on the edges to keep the rubber band(s) in place. It is the OD of these drums where I hope to change e speeds to equal tender and engine.       Of course I could be way off base in thinking that working this diameter will do what I want. Again if it doesn't work I'll try something else. AS to KISS I can't see a way to write less and still try to explain. Sorry I'll try to be brief next time. No matter I still have a Rubber Band Drive tender driven Athearn Pacific if I make the drivers free wheeling.                                                      Jim H

@@attachment@@

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16392	From: Richard	Date: 3/27/2011
Subject: Athearn P-4 Modelers Notes Article

Anyone wanting copies of the articles can email Alden Dryer alden.javanet@... and he will make photos copies of them or any others. He has most of the B&M Modelers Notes, B&M Bulletins and also most B&M employee timetables. He has a $5.00 minimum. If interested, contact him at the above address. He does take PayPal if this helps. Richard Hamann in Vermont

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16393	From: Dennis Thompson	Date: 3/27/2011
Subject: New, (old) find; not home yet. Modest excitement..

I was visiting a friend last week who restored my Fairmont M19-AA speeder. (Real one) He'd been given a batch of stuff from the daughter of a recent widow who was going to junk it. My friend has modest if any interest, but took it because he's rebuilding an HO layout for his grandchildren. He had to, "take everything." So he reluctantly lugged home a 4x8 foot N gauge layout; all track in place with lots of switches and about 1/3 scenery. He doesn't want it. Next were two blue tin chests about 2x2x3 feet each. The first has an armload of old HO cars, most with Mantua couplers. (bingo) And a few half-built Varney car kits. Some little figures, handcar, misc small pieces too odd to list. Old power pack or two. Also a Mantua/Tyco Big Six and two Varney cast metal Docksides, one with a broken rear footboard. One standard size Mantua brass caboose, 'kinda dinged up. One Mantua early four-wheel brass caboose I've never seen before. One cast Mantua tender of the type that goes with the old Camel-Back 0-4-0; the type where the sides were separate flat pieces that attached with the ugly screws. Still good item. The second chest/trunk had inadvertently become locked so we could not open it. He doesn't want any of it and it's too old to interest his grandchildren. I offered him $50 for the whole thing but I have to take the N gauge layout. Too bad I haven't seen any real quality vintage steam power in the stuff. Likely there is none. Some of the built kit cars are fairly well done. A few appear to have card sides. Some of the trucks look like good ones but I didn't recognize any Central Valley which I always look for. I'll go pick them up early this week. I'm cautiously excited but also realize it's a grab-bag. I don't say much on this List, but couldn't resist speaking up this morning. Cheers, Dennis Odessa/Ritzville, E. WA state

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16394	From: garyp552002	Date: 3/27/2011
Subject: HO signs

Hey Guys, Does anyone know of a site to print Western Union and Railway Express Agency signs in HO? Thanks for any help. GaryP

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16395	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 3/27/2011
Subject: Re: First version Athearn Pacific [2 Attachments]

Jim H. For what it's worth, I believe that, to get the drivers and the tender wheels to rotate at respective speeds such that the forward or backward speed of the loco and the tender will be the same, the proportion of the driver diameter to the tender wheel diameter must be equal to the proportion of the driver axle diameter to the tender axle diameter when the front and rear rods from the motor are the same diameter. Thus, if the driver is twice the diameter of the tender wheel, then the driver axle will have to be twice the diameter of the tender axle. Alternatively, if the rod from the motor to the drivers is made twice the diameter of the motor rod to the tender, then the axles of the loco drivers and the tender wheels must be the same. Regards, Walter On Sun, Mar 27, 2011 at 10:57 AM, jim heckard <jimheck@...> wrote:   [Attachment(s) from jim heckard included below]   Richard, Don, Jake,        The picture I sent is the bottom of the Athearn Pacific 1st version from my collection and not the piece of " basket case" I am working with.         Again I am trying to create an Athearn RBD Pacific that "might" be something like Athearn tried to do (all guessing ). I am not a mathematician nor a design engine. Most of what I am doing in this case is to try something to see if it works or gets better or worse. While maybe I should do precise figuring ( rotation and speed to be even ) and measure ( micrometer to get exact ) this is as I said a Rube Goldberg attempt to see if it is possible.  If I hit on something then it's back to  a better engine to work with and a more permanent prototype.         The picture shows the underside of the first version of the Athearn Pacific. Since I would be changing motor/ drive the large gear on the back driver will come off and have an axle replace it and become a dummy. It won't matter OD as I plan only trying to power one or both of the other plastic drivers.       Don    You will notice that there is a whole plastic piece spanning the 3 drivers which I plan on keeping to hold the drivers in  the slots of the frame.      You will also notice the two silver like metal drums that are part of the axles for the front two drivers. This is where I plan to get the drivers to spin the speed needed equal to the tender wheels. They will be cut or remade with lips on the edges to keep the rubber band(s) in place. It is the OD of these drums where I hope to change e speeds to equal tender and engine.       Of course I could be way off base in thinking that working this diameter will do what I want. Again if it doesn't work I'll try something else. AS to KISS I can't see a way to write less and still try to explain. Sorry I'll try to be brief next time. No matter I still have a Rubber Band Drive tender driven Athearn Pacific if I make the drivers free wheeling.                                                      Jim H     Attachment(s) from jim heckard 2 of 2 Photo(s) IMG_6920_1.JPG IMG_6921_2.JPG Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post | Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (1) Recent Activity: New Members 4 New Photos 2 New Links 1 Visit Your Group MARKETPLACE Get great advice about dogs and cats. Visit the Dog & Cat Answers Center. Stay on top of your group activity without leaving the page you're on - Get the Yahoo! Toolbar now. Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest • Unsubscribe • Terms of Use

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16396	From: 23weldon	Date: 3/27/2011
Subject: Re: Casting a Pilot?

Richard - Try contacting Dennis Mashburn.  K & D Casting 3849 Westchester Dr. Abilene, Texas 79606 325-695-5584  He has a small cottage level brass investment casting operation well known for many years to the O scale folks.  He has the capability to make a wax mold from a cast part like a pilot and then invest the wax to make a casting.  Note that a part made this way may be slightly smaller than the original due to shrinkage. Dennis's business has been slow in recent months because last November he had bypass surgery.   Another possibility is http://stevensonpreservationlines.com/ This fellow is also an O scale guy.  He has a nice small foundry operation and is worth contacting.    Understand that making a custom casting that doesn't represent much opportunity for repeat business will be an expensive effort where all the tooling and setup costs have to be absorbed in one order.  The most economical approach is when your job can be fit in while other similar work is being done.  This means that some patience is called for.  Also note that both of the above are essentially one man operations.  Your work can be considerably delayed if the work time is not available for any reason such as illness or other events.  But both Mashburn and Stevenson are model railroaders, both are willing to do scales other than O and both are accomplished at this kind of investment casting.   Ed Weldon

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16397	From: Bill Anderson	Date: 3/27/2011
Subject: Re: New, (old) find; not home yet. Modest excitement..

Dennis,   I am thinking you will be occupied for some time. Please keep the list updated on your discoveries.   Bill Anderson ----- Original Message ----- From: Dennis Thompson To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 27, 2011 8:41 AM Subject: [vintageHO] New, (old) find; not home yet. Modest excitement..   I was visiting a friend last week who restored my Fairmont M19-AA speeder. (Real one) He'd been given a batch of stuff from the daughter of a recent widow who was going to junk it. My friend has modest if any interest, but took it because he's rebuilding an HO layout for his grandchildren. He had to, "take everything." So he reluctantly lugged home a 4x8 foot N gauge layout; all track in place with lots of switches and about 1/3 scenery. He doesn't want it. Next were two blue tin chests about 2x2x3 feet each. The first has an armload of old HO cars, most with Mantua couplers. (bingo) And a few half-built Varney car kits. Some little figures, handcar, misc small pieces too odd to list. Old power pack or two. Also a Mantua/Tyco Big Six and two Varney cast metal Docksides, one with a broken rear footboard. One standard size Mantua brass caboose, 'kinda dinged up. One Mantua early four-wheel brass caboose I've never seen before. One cast Mantua tender of the type that goes with the old Camel-Back 0-4-0; the type where the sides were separate flat pieces that attached with the ugly screws. Still good item. The second chest/trunk had inadvertently become locked so we could not open it. He doesn't want any of it and it's too old to interest his grandchildren. I offered him $50 for the whole thing but I have to take the N gauge layout. Too bad I haven't seen any real quality vintage steam power in the stuff. Likely there is none. Some of the built kit cars are fairly well done. A few appear to have card sides. Some of the trucks look like good ones but I didn't recognize any Central Valley which I always look for. I'll go pick them up early this week. I'm cautiously excited but also realize it's a grab-bag. I don't say much on this List, but couldn't resist speaking up this morning. Cheers, Dennis Odessa/Ritzville, E. WA state

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16398	From: Glenn	Date: 3/27/2011
Subject: Re: First version Athearn Pacific [2 Attachments]

Someplace I have most  of an Athearn Pacific—when I find it I’ll toss it to the group-  “jump ball”-gj   From: jim heckard Sent: Sunday, March 27, 2011 7:57 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] First version Athearn Pacific [2 Attachments]   [Attachment(s) from jim heckard included below]   Richard, Don, Jake,        The picture I sent is the bottom of the Athearn Pacific 1st version from my collection and not the piece of " basket case" I am working with.        Again I am trying to create an Athearn RBD Pacific that "might" be something like Athearn tried to do (all guessing ). I am not a mathematician nor a design engine. Most of what I am doing in this case is to try something to see if it works or gets better or worse. While maybe I should do precise figuring ( rotation and speed to be even ) and measure ( micrometer to get exact ) this is as I said a Rube Goldberg attempt to see if it is possible.  If I hit on something then it's back to  a better engine to work with and a more permanent prototype.         The picture shows the underside of the first version of the Athearn Pacific. Since I would be changing motor/ drive the large gear on the back driver will come off and have an axle replace it and become a dummy. It won't matter OD as I plan only trying to power one or both of the other plastic drivers.       Don    You will notice that there is a whole plastic piece spanning the 3 drivers which I plan on keeping to hold the drivers in  the slots of the frame.      You will also notice the two silver like metal drums that are part of the axles for the front two drivers. This is where I plan to get the drivers to spin the speed needed equal to the tender wheels. They will be cut or remade with lips on the edges to keep the rubber band(s) in place. It is the OD of these drums where I hope to change e speeds to equal tender and engine.       Of course I could be way off base in thinking that working this diameter will do what I want. Again if it doesn't work I'll try something else. AS to KISS I can't see a way to write less and still try to explain. Sorry I'll try to be brief next time. No matter I still have a Rubber Band Drive tender driven Athearn Pacific if I make the drivers free wheeling.                                                      Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16399	From: wjclaasen@aol.com	Date: 3/27/2011
Subject: Re: HO signs

Gary, Regarding the Western Union and REA signs in HO, try Blairline.com. Checkout the "Signs for Railroad Station". Walt

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16400	From: gary pardue	Date: 3/27/2011
Subject: Re: HO signs

Walt. Thanks for the info. Gary --- On Sun, 3/27/11, wjclaasen@... <wjclaasen@...> wrote: From: wjclaasen@... <wjclaasen@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Re: HO signs To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, March 27, 2011, 7:05 PM   Gary, Regarding the Western Union and REA signs in HO, try Blairline.com. Checkout the "Signs for Railroad Station". Walt

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16401	From: Nelson	Date: 3/28/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2

Jim, I think your shop needs a neon sign above the entrance that reads "Warning: Mad Scientist At Work." ;-) Seriously, though, do you think it's necessary to power the drivers and the tender wheels? I would think that powering the drivers would be sufficient, since I haven't had any traction issues with mine. It pulls well, and has been run a good bit... the biggest problem is the low torque hi-fi motor. Do you have any information that indicates they tried powering all the wheels at once, as opposed to experimenting with engine or tender drives separately? Whichever way you slice it, that loco is going to be speedy. I hope the side rods stay on. Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> wrote: > > Richard, Kurt, Nelson, All, > > I have been busy with other replies and information but have been following your thread. I thought you might like to hear what I am doing with a first version Athearn 4-6-2 having plastic drivers. > > With out getting to deep into the story Ahearn's first 4-6-2 was supposed to be rubber band driven. They never panned out and never were sold although some " walked" out of the Athearn factory. ( I've never seen one but some have told me supposedly how they worked ) There has been a lot of past discussion here and other sites as to how these were to be powered / driven. No definite answers . > > As a fun project for myself and just going on my own ideas I am taking that first version with plastic drivers and trying to recreate a RBD production engine. I'm not going to send pictures yet because everything is just held together with rubber bands ( no pun intended) and chewing gum but I will give you an idea of what I am playing around with. > > I have taken an old Athearn Rubber Band motor with the metal drive shafts on both ends. I attached the motor in the cab of the 4-6-2 while being aware of clearences. The back metal drive shaft flexes at the back of the motor and extends into the tender so that the engine and tender are able to flex independent. As many of you know Athearn used the same heavy axled wheel sets, that were used for RBD engines / RDC's, for the tender trucks of all the versions of their 4-6-2 Pacifics. It was easy to add a support for the metal drive shaft inside the tender, take out some of the tender floor and add rubber bands from the powered metal drive shaft down onto the heavy axles of the tender. Getting power up to the motor in the cab still using the two wires from the front of the tender and still using the tender wheel sets to pick up current from the rails lets the tender be powered using rubber bands. > > But it will not run right with only the tender half RBD powered. The other shaft at the front is supported inside the engine boiler body but I am having some difficulty deciding which 2 of the sets of plastic drivers to use for putting rubber bands on that can go up and on the metal drive shaft above to power the engine. I have tried a number of ways, without total success so far, because I must create heavy axles ( same out side diameter as the tender axle ) for the plastic drivers which I will use as they are not needed to pick up power. ( Athearn originally created these plastic drivers for what they felt would be good pulling power and not create much slippage on the rails. Didn't work to well because as they picked up dirt from the rail they lost traction. Maybe people running the Athearn 4-6-2 Pacific's should take note and wipe off / clean the plastic driver surfaces for better traction.) > > Just thought you might get a kick of this Rube Goldberg idea and prototype. I hope my explanation of progress so far understandable. If I ever have total success I will send pictures and fully explain what I had to do. (Can't give all the secrets away yet.) > > Jim H.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16402	From: Nelson	Date: 3/28/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2

Thanks for that info, Rich. I have the first production model with the gear on the rear driver, so remotoring is more difficult due to the lack of a gearbox. I think the hardest part would be removing the worm from the motor shaft, because it's long and fitted very tightly... I started to damage the back of it when I tried it, but fortunately it has a long unthreaded collar section, so the teeth aren't damaged. Maybe heat would help free it. Btw, did the tender on yours have only 4 wheel pickup? Mine uses all 8 tender wheels. Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Richard" <rh@...> wrote: > > Kurt, Nelson and others, > Dave McMullian's B&M P-4 article is split up into five parts: > 1) Chassis, drive mechanism, and running gear. > 2) Installation of Tsunami sound decoder, speaker and axle cam. > 3) Body and chassis modifications. > 4) Detailing > 5) Painting, decaling and weathering. > The Athearn model that Dave rebuilt, in his article, was the plastic wheeled engine. I am currently rebuilding one of the latter production units with metal drivers which requires a few changes in the way he rebuilt his plastic wheeled model. I have several of these engines with both plastic and metal drivers. I learned the hard way not to bother with the first production units that had the axle gear protruding thru the bottom cover plate. I got my plastic wheeled engines to run well by adding wipers so that the tender had all wheel pick-up. My goal now with the metal wheeled engine is to have it run just as quiet and smooth as anything being produced today. I'm pretty sure I can do that, thanks to Dave's great article. > Richard Hamann in Vermont > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "bluenosedviking" <bluenosedviking@> wrote: > > > > > > Thank you, Richard. Did any of those articles deal with electrical/mechanical improvements? > > > > Kurt > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "VtHam" <rh@> wrote: > > > > > > Jack is correct. Part 1 of the article by Dave McMullian appeared in the Boston and Maine Railroad Historical Society's Modelers Notes, Issue #115, July - August 2008. > > > Part ll was in Issue #118, January - February 2009. > > > Part lll was in Issue #121, July - August 2009. > > > There was a "parts change" list of detail parts published in Issue #123, November -December 2009. > > > Part lV was in Issue #126, May - June 2010. > > > There was supposed to be a Part V but I'm not sure if and when it will be published. I will be glad to post the info on it as soon as I find out. By the way, Dave McMullian has done an awesome job with this project. > > > Richard Hamann in Vermont > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16403	From: toytrain13	Date: 3/28/2011
Subject: Red Ball Quikits

Hello- Can anyone tell me how a Red Ball "Quikit" differs from a "regular" Red Ball kit? Thanks- Richard White

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16404	From: nvrr49@yahoo.com	Date: 3/28/2011
Subject: HO signs

Attachments : telegraph13.jpg telegraph12.jpg reversetelegraph.jpg railwayexpresslogo.jpg See attached   Kent Hurley Kansas City, MO Check out my blog at : http://nvrr49.blogspot.com/

@@attachment@@

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16405	From: Carl Neste	Date: 3/28/2011
Subject: Repair technique

As mentioned earlier, I'm working on 2 Bev-Bel boxcar kits. Not following the instructions, I decided to drill the mounting holes for the grab irons at the bottom of the cast metal ends before epoxying them to the basic boxes. After drilling a few holes, the #77 bit broke in one of the holes. Nowheres near enough left to grasp and pull out. I'm considering drilling a much larger hole from the back, hopefully including the piece of broken bit, then filling the resulting hole with epoxy and THEN drilling the cured epoxy for the grab. In fact, I'm thinking of doing that for all the holes in the ends. Does anyone know of a better way to solve my problem? I'll bet I'm not the only one who's broken these tiny bits off. Carl

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16406	From: jim heckard	Date: 3/28/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2

Nelson,        My wife calls me mad already but surely not a scientist although she does have a few names she uses.         As for powering both the tender wheels and the engine drivers has to do with I want to see if it can be done. A lot of discussion went on in the past as how Athearn even accomplish that in their failed RBD Pacific that was never sold. Their engineers chucked the whole idea and went a different route. Those later version, to me,not much better..Some people said they have seen them. One person said he had one. One person said one was at a train show in CA but not for sale, just show. Others explained how they work  I have not received one shred of  concrete evidence from any one. No picture or paperwork. Not even a drawing.       I knew there would be problems before I started to power both tender and engine especially because of the OD of the Drivers versus the tender wheels. I just thought it would be fun to see what I could come up with. Yet most times you need others to look and they will see things you might not. Did you notice how quick members of this and other Yahoo sites saw  problems especially when I said I would make an axle for the plastic drivers the same OD as the tender wheel axles. They were paying attention and see how fast I got great responses and good ideas.      As for speedy only if you let the power wide open. If I get this running it will be at minimal power settings on the transformer. I don't care if  ever "finish" it. It will just be a conversation piece.                                                    Jim H ----- Original Message ----- From: Nelson To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 28, 2011 12:28 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Athearn 4-6-2   Jim, I think your shop needs a neon sign above the entrance that reads "Warning: Mad Scientist At Work." ;-) Seriously, though, do you think it's necessary to power the drivers and the tender wheels? I would think that powering the drivers would be sufficient, since I haven't had any traction issues with mine. It pulls well, and has been run a good bit... the biggest problem is the low torque hi-fi motor. Do you have any information that indicates they tried powering all the wheels at once, as opposed to experimenting with engine or tender drives separately? Whichever way you slice it, that loco is going to be speedy. I hope the side rods stay on. Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> wrote: > > Richard, Kurt, Nelson, All, > > I have been busy with other replies and information but have been following your thread. I thought you might like to hear what I am doing with a first version Athearn 4-6-2 having plastic drivers. > > With out getting to deep into the story Ahearn's first 4-6-2 was supposed to be rubber band driven. They never panned out and never were sold although some " walked" out of the Athearn factory. ( I've never seen one but some have told me supposedly how they worked ) There has been a lot of past discussion here and other sites as to how these were to be powered / driven. No definite answers . > > As a fun project for myself and just going on my own ideas I am taking that first version with plastic drivers and trying to recreate a RBD production engine. I'm not going to send pictures yet because everything is just held together with rubber bands ( no pun intended) and chewing gum but I will give you an idea of what I am playing around with. > > I have taken an old Athearn Rubber Band motor with the metal drive shafts on both ends. I attached the motor in the cab of the 4-6-2 while being aware of clearences. The back metal drive shaft flexes at the back of the motor and extends into the tender so that the engine and tender are able to flex independent. As many of you know Athearn used the same heavy axled wheel sets, that were used for RBD engines / RDC's, for the tender trucks of all the versions of their 4-6-2 Pacifics. It was easy to add a support for the metal drive shaft inside the tender, take out some of the tender floor and add rubber bands from the powered metal drive shaft down onto the heavy axles of the tender. Getting power up to the motor in the cab still using the two wires from the front of the tender and still using the tender wheel sets to pick up current from the rails lets the tender be powered using rubber bands. > > But it will not run right with only the tender half RBD powered. The other shaft at the front is supported inside the engine boiler body but I am having some difficulty deciding which 2 of the sets of plastic drivers to use for putting rubber bands on that can go up and on the metal drive shaft above to power the engine. I have tried a number of ways, without total success so far, because I must create heavy axles ( same out side diameter as the tender axle ) for the plastic drivers which I will use as they are not needed to pick up power. ( Athearn originally created these plastic drivers for what they felt would be good pulling power and not create much slippage on the rails. Didn't work to well because as they picked up dirt from the rail they lost traction. Maybe people running the Athearn 4-6-2 Pacific's should take note and wipe off / clean the plastic driver surfaces for better traction.) > > Just thought you might get a kick of this Rube Goldberg idea and prototype. I hope my explanation of progress so far understandable. If I ever have total success I will send pictures and fully explain what I had to do. (Can't give all the secrets away yet.) > > Jim H.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16407	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 3/28/2011
Subject: Re: Repair technique

Carl, I've drilled a ton of holes in all kinds of metals involving HO trains, and the worst is the soft white metal that freezes up the drill bit because of the heat and the fact that the chips do not eject well. I subscribe to the old adage: "an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure." You really must use a light oil (I do prefer the gear cutting oil from any hardware store). A small drop on the spot to be drilled works wonders and greatly prolongs the life of the bit. Then go slowly and withdraw the bit once or twice to bring out the chips as you go along. That said, I would NOT go to all the trouble to drill large holes and then fill them in with epoxy (or whatever) and then re-drill with smaller holes. I can almost guarantee you that you will not be happy with the results for more reasons than I want to get into here. Furthermore, if you can access the back of the piece with the broken bit in it you get drill a larger hole behind the broken bit till you get to the tip of the bit (you won't be able to go further because the broken steel bit will stop the invading drill from the back). At that point you should be able work the broken bit the rest of the way through or push it out from the back. If that doesn't work you can always do what I have often done, and that is to simply drill another hole close to the first one and adjust your positioning of the grabs from there. Virtually no one will know the difference--especially when it's painted. Again, I strongly advise you NOT to drill all large holes and fill them in with some substance! The result will be more objectionable than re-drilling very closely to the old hole. Good luck with it in any case!   Art W   n a message dated 3/28/2011 2:17:13 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, cmneste@... writes: As mentioned earlier, I'm working on 2 Bev-Bel boxcar kits. Not following the instructions, I decided to drill the mounting holes for the grab irons at the bottom of the cast metal ends before epoxying them to the basic boxes. After drilling a few holes, the #77 bit broke in one of the holes. Nowheres near enough left to grasp and pull out. I'm considering drilling a much larger hole from the back, hopefully including the piece of broken bit, then filling the resulting hole with epoxy and THEN drilling the cured epoxy for the grab. In fact, I'm thinking of doing that for all the holes in the ends. Does anyone know of a better way to solve my problem? I'll bet I'm not the only one who's broken these tiny bits off. Carl

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16408	From: toytrain13	Date: 3/28/2011
Subject: Re: Repair technique

Carl- I've found I break a lot fewer of those tiny bits when I drill using my Micro-Mark drill press. Sometimes a little thread-cutting oil helps too. Good luck- Richard White

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16409	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 3/28/2011
Subject: Re: Repair technique

Carl, To follow up on my comments, Richard White is absolutely correct--using the drill press almost always is best when possible. And I love the gear cutting oil because it smells like an honest-to-god machine shop! Might as well pretend you're doing real back shop work all the way!   Art W     In a message dated 3/28/2011 3:50:27 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, toytrain13@... writes: Carl- I've found I break a lot fewer of those tiny bits when I drill using my Micro-Mark drill press. Sometimes a little thread-cutting oil helps too. Good luck- Richard White ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings:     Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join     (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email:     vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com     vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:     vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16410	From: jake_iv@juno.com	Date: 3/28/2011
Subject: Re: Red Ball Quikits

If I remember rightly, (lat time I built one was about '78), the Quik Kit had a solid wood block that you glued sides, ends & roof to, otherwise about the same as regular kit. Jake

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16411	From: Nelson	Date: 3/28/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2

As others have said, I think it's the ratio of the size of the axle drum to the wheel diameter that's the critical part. It will be interesting to find out if they designed the tender wheels and drivers to turn at the same speed. If it works, try drag racing a Hustler. Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> wrote: > > Nelson, > > My wife calls me mad already but surely not a scientist although she does have a few names she uses. > > As for powering both the tender wheels and the engine drivers has to do with I want to see if it can be done. A lot of discussion went on in the past as how Athearn even accomplish that in their failed RBD Pacific that was never sold. Their engineers chucked the whole idea and went a different route. Those later version, to me,not much better..Some people said they have seen them. One person said he had one. One person said one was at a train show in CA but not for sale, just show. Others explained how they work I have not received one shred of concrete evidence from any one. No picture or paperwork. Not even a drawing. > > I knew there would be problems before I started to power both tender and engine especially because of the OD of the Drivers versus the tender wheels. I just thought it would be fun to see what I could come up with. Yet most times you need others to look and they will see things you might not. Did you notice how quick members of this and other Yahoo sites saw problems especially when I said I would make an axle for the plastic drivers the same OD as the tender wheel axles. They were paying attention and see how fast I got great responses and good ideas. > > As for speedy only if you let the power wide open. If I get this running it will be at minimal power settings on the transformer. I don't care if ever "finish" it. It will just be a conversation piece. > > Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16412	From: corlissbs@aol.com	Date: 3/28/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2

<If it works, try drag racing a Hustler.>   Or the Tyco modified Hustler with the propeller.   When I was a teen, I thought about putting the rubber axle drum/spacer on the upper shaft to make the Hustler go faster.   Brad Smith

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16413	From: Matthew	Date: 3/29/2011
Subject: Re: Repair technique

My father taught me to use beeswax, not oil, when working with "wire size" drills (#60 and up), especially in soft metals. I have a 10-lb block of beeswax that I got in 1977 and it is still 99% unused. A little goes a long way. Matt --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "toytrain13" <toytrain13@...> wrote: > > Carl- I've found I break a lot fewer of those tiny bits when I drill using my Micro-Mark drill press. Sometimes a little thread-cutting oil helps too. Good luck- Richard White >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16414	From: Howard R Garner	Date: 3/29/2011
Subject: Ulrich C&SW GS Gondola

The Ulrich C&S GS gondola that I reported on a couple days ago I have decided that I did not need in my collection. It is presently listed on ebay along with a few other vintage items. May these all go to a good home. Howard Garner

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16415	From: Model RailRoad	Date: 3/29/2011
Subject: Re: Red Ball Quikits

The QuicKits were marketed by us (Wabash Valley Lines,Inc) in the late 70s after purchase of Red Ball from Howell Day (1976). The decision had been made to ONLY make woodn sided reefers and boxcars (silk screened then, later, pad printed) and we had tons (literally) of printed card side inventory. It made sense to develop a low priced kit line to introduce beginning modellers to kit building since "real kits" were beginning to escalate in price and early plastic was the only thing to ber had in entry level price range. The sides retailed for 59c a pair and the bodies were in the $2-3 range. At first the carbody was made of a small wooden box cut to size and glued together by our employees in Roanoke, IN. The model builder glued on the wood roof, cast metal ends, card sides and underbody details (floor was part of the pre made box), ladders etc. There were standard reefer sizes (Red Ball kits had a unique size to most every one of the 200 + reefers): 34, 36.38 and 40 foot. Boxcars were 34,36 and 40 foot standard box sizes. The boxes were made of 1/4" pine "lattice" wood that we surfaced with a planer in our wood shop. In time I changed the design to a solid poplar block cut from kiln dried inch+ thick plank stock surfaced both sides to the required car width . We cut the wood into solid rectangular stock and milled out the inside to form a large solid "U" of the floor and sides. The U was quite sturdy for easy attachment of roof sides and ends. It was also less prone to shipping damage. This "U" design was also used for the Red Ball express reefers with cast metal sides for several years.(Of course those blocks were quite different dimensions than either the reefers or boxcars). The QuicKits were continued until a) the supply of Howell Day printed sides limited the road choices; b) plastic kit technology and wider availability (particularly the "Train Miniature" brand that offered a wide choice of roads) and c) Labor costs made it impractical to continue the line. We paid higher than minimum wage, but min wage was jumping appreeciably every year (causing "higher than" to jump. An increase of 20c in labor forced a price increase of $1 as the line was sold through distributors and dealers. We shifted that intended focus to a complementary plastic KIT line from Cannonball at a time when plastic KITS were still not so accepted. (I'm referring to KITS with many parts as opposed to the Athearn, MDC and Train Miniature "shake the box" kits. The QuicKits were successful in their objective as we tracked continuing sales of the wood and metal Red Ball kits to the areas where QuicKits were particularly popular. "Regular" Red Ball boxcar and reefer wood and metal kits (1976-2009) had a traditional flat wood floor and end block construction design. It wasn't nearly as "Quick" to build. Most had no interior support for the scribed wood sides. Some had scribed roofs requiring support "rafters" (longitudinal). Most had special design features and there were not "standard" body kits with simply different sides attached. Exceptions abounded as each was unique and the cast metal sided express reefers are one exception noted above. There were well over 300 unque Red Ball cars during this period and less than a couple dozen allowed close to "standard" kit design. Merle Rice Model RR Warehouse (operator of Wabash Valley Lines and Red Ball 1976-2009) --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "toytrain13" <toytrain13@...> wrote: > > Hello- Can anyone tell me how a Red Ball "Quikit" differs from a "regular" Red Ball kit? Thanks- Richard White >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16416	From: Rick Jones	Date: 3/29/2011
Subject: Re: Red Ball Quikits

On 3/29/2011 5:06 PM, Model RailRoad wrote: > The QuicKits were marketed by us (Wabash Valley Lines,Inc) in the > late 70s after purchase of Red Ball from Howell Day (1976). The > decision had been made to ONLY make woodn sided reefers and boxcars > (silk screened then, later, pad printed) and we had tons (literally) > of printed card side inventory. It made sense to develop a low priced > kit line to introduce beginning modellers to kit building since "real > kits" were beginning to escalate in price and early plastic was the > only thing to ber had in entry level price range. The sides retailed > for 59c a pair and the bodies were in the $2-3 range. At first the > carbody was made of a small wooden box cut to size and glued together > by our employees in Roanoke, IN. The model builder glued on the wood > roof, cast metal ends, card sides and underbody details (floor was > part of the pre made box), ladders etc. There were standard reefer > sizes (Red Ball kits had a unique size to most every one of the 200 + > reefers): 34, 36.38 and 40 foot. Boxcars were 34,36 and 40 foot > standard box sizes. The boxes were made of 1/4" pine "lattice" wood > that we surfaced with a planer in our wood shop. In time I changed > the design to a solid poplar block cut from kiln dried inch+ thick > plank stock surfaced both sides to the required car width . We cut > the wood into solid rectangular stock and milled out the inside to > form a large solid "U" of the floor and sides. The U was quite sturdy > for easy attachment of roof sides and ends. It was also less prone to > shipping damage. This "U" design was also used for the Red Ball > express reefers with cast metal sides for several years.(Of course > those blocks were quite different dimensions than either the reefers > or boxcars). The QuicKits were continued until a) the supply of > Howell Day printed sides limited the road choices; b) plastic kit > technology and wider availability (particularly the "Train Miniature" > brand that offered a wide choice of roads) and c) Labor costs made it > impractical to continue the line. We paid higher than minimum wage, > b! ut min wage was jumping appreeciably every year (causing "higher > than" to jump. An increase of 20c in labor forced a price increase of > $1 as the line was sold through distributors and dealers. We shifted > that intended focus to a complementary plastic KIT line from > Cannonball at a time when plastic KITS were still not so accepted. > (I'm referring to KITS with many parts as opposed to the Athearn, MDC > and Train Miniature "shake the box" kits. The QuicKits were > successful in their objective as we tracked continuing sales of the > wood and metal Red Ball kits to the areas where QuicKits were > particularly popular. > > "Regular" Red Ball boxcar and reefer wood and metal kits (1976-2009) > had a traditional flat wood floor and end block construction design. > It wasn't nearly as "Quick" to build. Most had no interior support > for the scribed wood sides. Some had scribed roofs requiring support > "rafters" (longitudinal). Most had special design features and there > were not "standard" body kits with simply different sides attached. > Exceptions abounded as each was unique and the cast metal sided > express reefers are one exception noted above. There were well over > 300 unque Red Ball cars during this period and less than a couple > dozen allowed close to "standard" kit design. Does anybody know the status of LaBelle's plans for the Red Ball line? So far the only things they seem to be offering on their web site is a handful of Red Ball parts. -- Rick Jones It is hard to understand how a cemetery can raise its burial costs and blame it on the higher cost of living.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16417	From: CinderCrusher	Date: 3/29/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2

Nelson, I really got a laugh out of your comment about trying to drag race a Hustler. I actually did that, and lost every time. If you look in the "Cinder Valley" photo album you will two photos of my Penn Line T-1 dragster. For several years our local NMRA Division sponsored an annual drag race and an Athearn Hustler was the only entry I couldn't beat. And yes, the young man who owned the Hustler had reversed the pulleys with the large one on the motor shaft and only the driver axles below. Bill DeFoe --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Nelson" <greenbrier614@...> wrote: > > > > If it works, try drag racing a Hustler. > > Nelson

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16418	From: herb1013@epix.net	Date: 3/29/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2

>>>>>If it works, try drag racing a Hustler.<<<<<<<   I have a red and white Hustler that I bought I guess in the 50s. The motor still runs but I’m running out of bands.In fact I have all my Hi-f Drives. An F-7 a GP-9 and an Rdc 2 or 3 Herb       Bionic Herb,Br 38 NALC,Gods Knob, Milk Can Corners

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16419	From: jake_iv@juno.com	Date: 3/29/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 4-6-2

Replace the rubber bands with the Ernst conversion gear kit - super low speed performance from a venerable industrial engine.  And Athearn still sells the rubber bands - their shipping charge is a killer though. Jake

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16420	From: Model RailRoad	Date: 3/30/2011
Subject: Re: Red Ball Quikits

I cannot speak for LaBelle. BUT--guys have patience. There are many hundreds of molds and new machines to learn--as well as figuring it all out on hudreds of kits that may need to be redesigned to fit new owner's concepts for the line. When we purchased Red Ball we hustled to get out a reissued kit (that didn't need much redesign) every couple months for a long time. You can't push a magic button. Merle --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Rick Jones <r.t.jones@...> wrote: > > On 3/29/2011 5:06 PM, Model RailRoad wrote: > > The QuicKits were marketed by us (Wabash Valley Lines,Inc) in the > > late 70s after purchase of Red Ball from Howell Day (1976). The > > decision had been made to ONLY make woodn sided reefers and boxcars > > (silk screened then, later, pad printed) and we had tons (literally) > > of printed card side inventory. It made sense to develop a low priced > > kit line to introduce beginning modellers to kit building since "real > > kits" were beginning to escalate in price and early plastic was the > > only thing to ber had in entry level price range. The sides retailed > > for 59c a pair and the bodies were in the $2-3 range. At first the > > carbody was made of a small wooden box cut to size and glued together > > by our employees in Roanoke, IN. The model builder glued on the wood > > roof, cast metal ends, card sides and underbody details (floor was > > part of the pre made box), ladders etc. There were standard reefer > > sizes (Red Ball kits had a unique size to most every one of the 200 + > > reefers): 34, 36.38 and 40 foot. Boxcars were 34,36 and 40 foot > > standard box sizes. The boxes were made of 1/4" pine "lattice" wood > > that we surfaced with a planer in our wood shop. In time I changed > > the design to a solid poplar block cut from kiln dried inch+ thick > > plank stock surfaced both sides to the required car width . We cut > > the wood into solid rectangular stock and milled out the inside to > > form a large solid "U" of the floor and sides. The U was quite sturdy > > for easy attachment of roof sides and ends. It was also less prone to > > shipping damage. This "U" design was also used for the Red Ball > > express reefers with cast metal sides for several years.(Of course > > those blocks were quite different dimensions than either the reefers > > or boxcars). The QuicKits were continued until a) the supply of > > Howell Day printed sides limited the road choices; b) plastic kit > > technology and wider availability (particularly the "Train Miniature" > > brand that offered a wide choice of roads) and c) Labor costs made it > > impractical to continue the line. We paid higher than minimum wage, > > b! ut min wage was jumping appreeciably every year (causing "higher > > than" to jump. An increase of 20c in labor forced a price increase of > > $1 as the line was sold through distributors and dealers. We shifted > > that intended focus to a complementary plastic KIT line from > > Cannonball at a time when plastic KITS were still not so accepted. > > (I'm referring to KITS with many parts as opposed to the Athearn, MDC > > and Train Miniature "shake the box" kits. The QuicKits were > > successful in their objective as we tracked continuing sales of the > > wood and metal Red Ball kits to the areas where QuicKits were > > particularly popular. > > > > "Regular" Red Ball boxcar and reefer wood and metal kits (1976-2009) > > had a traditional flat wood floor and end block construction design. > > It wasn't nearly as "Quick" to build. Most had no interior support > > for the scribed wood sides. Some had scribed roofs requiring support > > "rafters" (longitudinal). Most had special design features and there > > were not "standard" body kits with simply different sides attached. > > Exceptions abounded as each was unique and the cast metal sided > > express reefers are one exception noted above. There were well over > > 300 unque Red Ball cars during this period and less than a couple > > dozen allowed close to "standard" kit design. > > Does anybody know the status of LaBelle's plans for the Red Ball > line? So far the only things they seem to be offering on their web site > is a handful of Red Ball parts. > > -- > > Rick Jones > > It is hard to understand how a cemetery can raise its burial > costs and blame it on the higher cost of living. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16421	From: Rick Steele	Date: 3/31/2011
Subject: Re: Red Ball Quikits

> Does anybody know the status of LaBelle's plans for the Red Ball > line? So far the only things they seem to be offering on their web site > is a handful of Red Ball parts. > > -- > > Rick Jones Instead of speculating, why not just write and ask directly? Or call, or wait until I can get on one of these forums and answer. Your cry seems simple, but it is much more involved than that. First off, I have a very limited amount of time between producing LaBelle Kits and taking care of those customers to photograph, price and upload all of the Red Ball Parts that we have in stock. It has to be done as time allows, and since I have another full time job (the one that actually pays my bills and feeds my family), I have to work my second full time job around the first one. After having put over $70,000 into an addition to our existing facility to house Red Ball, we find that the electrical connections into the building are incorrect for the machines that were sent with the Red Ball line. The last quote from the power company was a mere $30,000.00 to install it. Anybody on this list have that much laying around on the top of their dresser? Me either. The alternative is to change out the motors or get a phase converter, neither which will be less than $1,000.00. Next, we have to have new cutters made for the shapers to make the wood parts. Those mentioned in the original correspondence have never appeared. After the tool holders are made, the cost of the knives are relatively cheap at about $500.00 each or you can have some dedicated tools made at the cost of several thousand. Remember, the curves for the Roofs at LaBelle and Red Ball are different and to put out a good quality kit, the roofs, cupolas and roofwalks have to match. OK, Now let's get to another matter. The kits that we received from Model RR Warehouse were involved in a fire. Most survived, several are moldy but we're not sure what goes with what because the Packaging Master that MRRW used (I was told that there was one) was not in the shipment either. So each kit has to be found (if we have it, and we don't have them all), inspected, checked against the old Red Ball catalog, if the parts are listed there and then we have to go to the molding dies to see if we even have the die to make it. If we don't then there's another cost that was not anticipated. Did I mention that almost all of the artwork has to be redone? Red Ball had a lot of neat kits, but in comparing with prototype photos, some of their attention to detail was a bit lacking. It's a lot to ask from one person (me) to finance all this and to resurrect what is essentially a dead line in a matter of months. I'd like to rush a kit out as well, but I want to make sure that the kit will appeal to my existing LaBelle customers and not alienate the old Red Ball fans. I also want it detailed enough that it will entice new modelers back for more. So you can see, by this tip of the hand, that the New Red Ball will be different than the old. All I can say is to be patient. I am working on this as diligently as I can. I mean, heck, all it takes is money. As a matter of fact I'll pay someone quadruple the salary that LaBelle pays me to do. Be warned, though, that my salary is $0.00. Now Mr. Jones, how may we help you? My e-mail address at the shop is info@... Rick Steele LaBelle Woodworking Co.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16422	From: Donald R. Staton	Date: 3/31/2011
Subject: Re: Red Ball Quikits

Rick Steele, thank you for a candid, concise, clear communication.  I can readily identify with the problem and the lack of funds.  You are making a great effort for the benefit of others and I most deeply thank you for it...  You are appreciated.  Please remember to take care of you in the process.  He who burns candle at both ends runs out of both wax and wick more quickly. Be even greater blessed...  Don Staton, Va. Beach, VA. ===================================================================================================== On 3/31/2011 10:56 AM, Rick Steele wrote:   > Does anybody know the status of LaBelle's plans for the Red Ball > line? So far the only things they seem to be offering on their web site > is a handful of Red Ball parts. > > -- > > Rick Jones Instead of speculating, why not just write and ask directly? Or call, or wait until I can get on one of these forums and answer. Your cry seems simple, but it is much more involved than that. First off, I have a very limited amount of time between producing LaBelle Kits and taking care of those customers to photograph, price and upload all of the Red Ball Parts that we have in stock. It has to be done as time allows, and since I have another full time job (the one that actually pays my bills and feeds my family), I have to work my second full time job around the first one. After having put over $70,000 into an addition to our existing facility to house Red Ball, we find that the electrical connections into the building are incorrect for the machines that were sent with the Red Ball line. The last quote from the power company was a mere $30,000.00 to install it. Anybody on this list have that much laying around on the top of their dresser? Me either. The alternative is to change out the motors or get a phase converter, neither which will be less than $1,000.00. Next, we have to have new cutters made for the shapers to make the wood parts. Those mentioned in the original correspondence have never appeared. After the tool holders are made, the cost of the knives are relatively cheap at about $500.00 each or you can have some dedicated tools made at the cost of several thousand. Remember, the curves for the Roofs at LaBelle and Red Ball are different and to put out a good quality kit, the roofs, cupolas and roofwalks have to match. OK, Now let's get to another matter. The kits that we received from Model RR Warehouse were involved in a fire. Most survived, several are moldy but we're not sure what goes with what because the Packaging Master that MRRW used (I was told that there was one) was not in the shipment either. So each kit has to be found (if we have it, and we don't have them all), inspected, checked against the old Red Ball catalog, if the parts are listed there and then we have to go to the molding dies to see if we even have the die to make it. If we don't then there's another cost that was not anticipated. Did I mention that almost all of the artwork has to be redone? Red Ball had a lot of neat kits, but in comparing with prototype photos, some of their attention to detail was a bit lacking. It's a lot to ask from one person (me) to finance all this and to resurrect what is essentially a dead line in a matter of months. I'd like to rush a kit out as well, but I want to make sure that the kit will appeal to my existing LaBelle customers and not alienate the old Red Ball fans. I also want it detailed enough that it will entice new modelers back for more. So you can see, by this tip of the hand, that the New Red Ball will be different than the old. All I can say is to be patient. I am working on this as diligently as I can. I mean, heck, all it takes is money. As a matter of fact I'll pay someone quadruple the salary that LaBelle pays me to do. Be warned, though, that my salary is $0.00. Now Mr. Jones, how may we help you? My e-mail address at the shop is info@... Rick Steele LaBelle Woodworking Co.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16423	From: Rick Jones	Date: 3/31/2011
Subject: Re: Red Ball Quikits

On 3/31/2011 9:56 AM, Rick Steele wrote: > > >> Does anybody know the status of LaBelle's plans for the Red Ball >> line? So far the only things they seem to be offering on their web >> site is a handful of Red Ball parts. >> >> Rick Jones > > > Instead of speculating, why not just write and ask directly? Or call, > or wait until I can get on one of these forums and answer. <snip> > Now Mr. Jones, how may we help you? Didn't mean to offend. Was just an honest question about the current status of rebuilding the model line since there's no mention of it on the web site. Truth is I'm backed way up on kits to build and not in any hurry to add more that will sit in boxes for years, but am seriously interested in NOT seeing the demise of craftsman kits in favor of plastic RTR or simple kits. I've been unhappy for years about the loss of Central Valley kits and trucks from the marketplace. -- Rick Jones "Political Correctness is the elevation of Sensitivity over Truth." -Bill Mahr, "Politically Incorrect"

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16424	From: Rick Steele	Date: 4/1/2011
Subject: Re: Red Ball Quikits

> > Didn't mean to offend. Was just an honest question about the current > status of rebuilding the model line since there's no mention of it on > the web site. Truth is I'm backed way up on kits to build and not in any > hurry to add more that will sit in boxes for years, but am seriously > interested in NOT seeing the demise of craftsman kits in favor of > plastic RTR or simple kits. I've been unhappy for years about the loss > of Central Valley kits and trucks from the marketplace. > > -- > > Rick Jones > > "Political Correctness is the elevation of Sensitivity over Truth." > -Bill Mahr, "Politically Incorrect" > Rick, You didn't offend. My suggestion was merely to go to the horses mouth rather than to post something to the whims and fancies of the net. I can sound particularly brusque because (as you mentioned at the end of your last post) I don't subscribe to the Politically Correct theory either. If you think that you miss Central Valley trucks, think how I feel. Most of the LaBelle kits were originally engineered to use the CV trucks. Now days I either refer people to Bethlehem Car Works for the Old Red Ball Trucks, or to Precision Scale Company where a pair of trucks will cost almost as much as a kit. There are a lot of things that I'd like to do, but time and money are the biggest drawbacks. Rick Steele LaBelle Woodworking Co.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16425	From: jim heckard	Date: 4/1/2011
Subject: Tender Trucks Atrached

Attachments : IMG_6935_2.JPG IMG_6933_1.JPG                     I finally got both Winton Allegheny original trucks attached and with good current flow. I basically used an idea someone suggested with a little modification to get current past the insulated pieces on top of the trucks. I soldered a wire to the side of a small washer and inserted the screw through it and the insulated part into the metal bolsters on the tender body. I then soldered the other end of the wire to the closest metal .Since the washer turns with the truck I didn't need a big piece with slack for turning slack or flexing and easier to hide. Also since the wire is soldered to the side of the washer and not to the screw head easy to take the screws out and take the trucks off. I thought I might need a small spring under the screw head to keep some pressure for pickup but so far it works great.        Now that I made sure there is good connections and electrical pick up from the track all I need to do is attach engine wire to front screw in the tender.                                                    Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 16426	From: Howard R Garner	Date: 4/2/2011
Subject: Re: Red Ball Quikits

> If you think that you miss Central Valley trucks, think how I feel. Most of the LaBelle kits were originally engineered to use the CV trucks. Now days I either refer people to Bethlehem Car Works for the Old Red Ball Trucks, or to Precision Scale Company where a pair of trucks will cost almost as much as a kit. > > There are a lot of things that I'd like to do, but time and money are the biggest drawbacks. > > Rick Steele > LaBelle Woodworking Co. How do the new Tahoe 5 ft archbars look as a CV replacement? Howard Garner

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16427	From: pennsyjuice	Date: 4/2/2011
Subject: Got 'em running

New member here and am looking for some help. Tonight, I finally got a Tyco FP-7 ACL and AHM NH C-Liner runniing. They have been in storage since 1966. I have them jumpered and sitting in a cradle, so I've been cleaning tne wheels as they are spinning with a q-tip and alcohol. Should I clean the motor (brushes, commutator ) with anything or just leave them alone? Any suggestions regaurding a " tune-up " would be appreciated. It sure feels good to get them running again! Thanks in advance, David Ott

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16428	From: jake_iv@juno.com	Date: 4/3/2011
Subject: Re: Got 'em running

David, Welcome!!  Tune-ups :  Fast, Safe and Effective after more than 25 years experience running a shop and restoring old trains.  Get yourself a can of CRC "D Electronic Cleaner" , part #05103 from your local auto parts store.  Spray the commutator and brushes plus all areas that have or have had grease on them.  Be liberal and get all of the old dirt and lube washed off.  Make sure that you get all of the cat hairs and carpet fibers out also.  Set it aside to dry completely - at least an hour, better if you let it dry overnight.  Then use La belle #108 to put a drop or two of plastic compatible oil on all bearings, including the oil-lite bearings on the motor.  Use Bachmann EZ Lube or La belle #107 to put a drop of oil on all axle bearings and two or three drops on the gears.  Use La belle #106 or Bachmann Gear Oil or Hob-E-Lube (Model Power) gear oil on the worm gears - one or two drops only. If you do the above, in 98% of all cases the locos will run super!  Even old Lionel and American Flyer locos from the '50s can be successfully restored to good if not perfect operation by this simple technique. Jake_iv Alabama Hill Country.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16429	From: jim heckard	Date: 4/3/2011
Subject: Allegheny done. on to next project

Attachments : IMG_6946_3_1.JPG IMG_6945_2_1.JPG IMG_6942_1_1.JPG            I finally completed my Winton Allegheny buy adding the original trucks .It's up and running and is now 100% Winton parts save for the two Devore couplers and a few of the valve gear parts that were missing and I hand made. Height of the tender with the trucks on looks good to me when matched to the engine / cab.      I'm happy with the way I wired them. It seems to run good on straight track . I can't run it on my 18"radius layout track and probable need 24 radius. So even though running it goes back on the shelf.      On to my next project. I will be rebuilding a special run HO 4-4-0 by American Flyer / Mantua ( could have been in co operation with TYCO ) FY&P # 88 from the Frontiersman set. Since it will need some repainting after being rebuilt it will have to be a reproduction but still pretty neat color scheme.                                                                 Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 16430	From: jake_iv@juno.com	Date: 4/3/2011
Subject: Re: Allegheny done. on to next project [3 Attachments]

Check with Hobby Surplus Sales - they just "might" have some of the original lettering since they got all of the original parts supply when Lionel took over AF. jake_iv

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16431	From: jim heckard	Date: 4/3/2011
Subject: Re: Allegheny done. on to next project

Thanks for the information. I already have the tender FY&P # 88  and the word Franklin for on the cab. These are stick on reproductions a friend send me                                      Jim H ----- Original Message ----- From: jake_iv@... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, April 03, 2011 2:02 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Allegheny done. on to next project   Check with Hobby Surplus Sales - they just "might" have some of the original lettering since they got all of the original parts supply when Lionel took over AF. jake_iv

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16432	From: jake_iv@juno.com	Date: 4/3/2011
Subject: Re: Allegheny done. on to next project

Dear Jim, As I recall the original lettering was stick-ons on both the HO & S Franklin, as was some of the Mantua W&A General runs.  I just finished remotoring a General with the stick-on W&A lettering. Jake_iv

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16433	From: jim heckard	Date: 4/3/2011
Subject: Re: Allegheny done. on to next project

Jake,      I think you are right that they were stick-ons and were never actual decals . What ever these will have to do.                                                             Jim                                                                                                     ----- Original Message ----- From: jake_iv@... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, April 03, 2011 2:37 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Allegheny done. on to next project   Dear Jim, As I recall the original lettering was stick-ons on both the HO & S Franklin, as was some of the Mantua W&A General runs.  I just finished remotoring a General with the stick-on W&A lettering. Jake_iv

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16434	From: Nelson	Date: 4/3/2011
Subject: Re: Got 'em running

David, here are a few tips specific to the C-Liner, because I've serviced a lot of them and they have their quirks. Test the brush spring pressure. If they're under a lot of tension, you can remove and squeeze the V spring to reduce it. The brushes they used are very soft and wear quickly, so they only need enough pressure to hold them in place. It doesn't hurt to polish the brush arms and the brass contacts where they touch to remove any tarnish or green corrosion as well. Dismantle the rear truck (be careful with the coupler spring), and soak the wheels & gears in 91% alcohol, then scrub them clean with a toothbrush. The old grease usually turns to hard wax, and goes green from the brass gearing. It can be difficult to get all of it out of the truck housing, but you can soak the truck in alcohol deep enough to cover it, then brush it out. Let it all dry out before re-lubing. I don't recommend removing the rear truck, though, because the worm holds it on, and if your unit is from the sixties there's a ring of 5 ball bearings between the worm and truck housing that isn't easy to deal with. Those bearings will need to be oiled as well. I recommend grease for the gearing; I use Super Lube, but Labelle Teflon grease will be fine also. Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "pennsyjuice" <altoman992003@...> wrote: > > New member here and am looking for some help. Tonight, I finally got a Tyco FP-7 ACL and AHM NH C-Liner runniing. They have been in storage since 1966. > > I have them jumpered and sitting in a cradle, so I've been cleaning tne wheels as they are spinning with a q-tip and alcohol. Should I clean the motor (brushes, commutator ) with anything or just leave them alone? > > Any suggestions regaurding a " tune-up " would be appreciated. It sure feels good to get them running again! > > Thanks in advance, > David Ott >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16435	From: dennyanspach	Date: 4/3/2011
Subject: Re: Red Ball Quikits

How do the new Tahoe 5 ft archbars look as a CV replacement? The answer is "superior" if only because the Tahoe trucks are so precise.  Where they are not superior is where you might be depending upon the weight of the trucks for operational reliability (like I will be doing with some Westerfield resin ore cars).   I reserve my cache of CV 5' trucks to be placed under the historic kit models that require them. Denny Denny S.  Anspach MD Sacramento

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16436	From: Riverboy	Date: 4/3/2011
Subject: Possibly Off Topic

I realize this group is mainly for vintage ( 1960's and earlier ) models, but maybe some fellow members can help me.   I recently acquired a lot of somewhat vintage ( 1970's I'm guessing ) train set models amongst "better" quality items. I'm very famailiar with both Tyco's and AHM's ( I'm not quite sure which company it is from ) common models from the era, but I had never seen this one until now. It is one of their 55' ACF covered hoppers, but it is decorated for Oscar Mayer. It has a couple of images of the "Wienermobile" one each side with the Oscar Mayer logo in the center. It also has "America's Favorite Wiener" across the side sills. Then again, I could be completely wrong and it could possibly be a much more recent release from someone who took over the old dies, since usually you can find "Tyco" or "AHM" on the underside.   I apologize if this is too off topic, but it got my curiosity going. Any help will be appreciated.   Tod from Ohio

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16437	From: RalphB	Date: 4/3/2011
Subject: Re: Got 'em running

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, David Ott wrote: > > New member here and am looking for some help. Tonight, I finally got a Tyco FP-7 ACL and AHM NH C-Liner runniing. They have been in storage since 1966. > > I have them jumpered and sitting in a cradle, so I've been cleaning tne wheels as they are spinning with a q-tip and alcohol. ---------------------- First off, welcome to the list. I'm usually one of the lurkers who simply gets information from the other folks on the list, and you'll find a wealth of information here. As to cleaning wheels on locomotives, my choice is the Kadee "Speedi Wheel Cleaner," http://kadee.com/htmbord/page236.htm I have one of my own at home and I frequently borrow one from a fellow club member at the shows we do (I'm in a modular HO club). The advantage is that there are no chemicals involved. Since the brushes are brass, they're non-magnetic and any shavings won't get attracted to the motor. As to a Tyco FP-7, I don't think so. F-7 with train heat boiler fittings on the roof, definitely. The only FP-7 offered in HO was the Atlas model, but there were several passenger-capable F-7 models. Difference? An EMD FP unit (offered only in A-units) was four feet longer than a standard F unit. There's an extra hatch on the roof between the dynamic brake hatch (if so equipped) and the radiator fan hatch; there's also extra space on the side panels and underframe. There were no FP-series B-units as these already had enough space for the extra water tanks; Santa Fe was a big user of B-units with boilers, but none of its A-units had them. Ralph B

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16438	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 4/3/2011
Subject: Re: Allegheny done. on to next project [3 Attachments]

Looks very nice Jim, I am sure you are happy to have reached this point with it.  Sorry I do not live closer to you, so you could run it here.   Next project seems to have some challenges that should keep you busy for a little.   Take care,   Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jim heckard Sent: Sunday, April 03, 2011 1:53 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Allegheny done. on to next project [3 Attachments]                I finally completed my Winton Allegheny buy adding the original trucks .It's up and running and is now 100% Winton parts save for the two Devore couplers and a few of the valve gear parts that were missing and I hand made. Height of the tender with the trucks on looks good to me when matched to the engine / cab.      I'm happy with the way I wired them. It seems to run good on straight track . I can't run it on my 18"radius layout track and probable need 24 radius. So even though running it goes back on the shelf.      On to my next project. I will be rebuilding a special run HO 4-4-0 by American Flyer / Mantua ( could have been in co operation with TYCO ) FY&P # 88 from the Frontiersman set. Since it will need some repainting after being rebuilt it will have to be a reproduction but still pretty neat color scheme.                                                                 Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16439	From: toytrain13	Date: 4/3/2011
Subject: Red Ball Rotary Snowplow

Hello- I've been online trying to find the prototype for the Red Ball Rotary Snowplow, Kit #162. Somewhat similar wood-bodied (now replaced with steel bodies) rotaries were owned by the Northern Pacific (#10) and the Long Island RR (#193), but these aren't really similar in door and window placement. Has anyone researched this? Thanks- Richard White

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16440	From: toytrain13	Date: 4/3/2011
Subject: Re: Red Ball Rotary Snowplow

I forgot to mention Nevada Northern Snowplow "B." This still has its wood body, and is similar to the Red Ball kit, but the window and door locations don't match up. -Richard White --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "toytrain13" <toytrain13@...> wrote: > > Hello- I've been online trying to find the prototype for the Red Ball Rotary Snowplow, Kit #162. Somewhat similar wood-bodied (now replaced with steel bodies) rotaries were owned by the Northern Pacific (#10) and the Long Island RR (#193), but these aren't really similar in door and window placement. Has anyone researched this? Thanks- Richard White >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16441	From: Model RailRoad	Date: 4/4/2011
Subject: Tahoe Trucks was Red Ball Quikits

Tahoe is shipping the new 5ft archbars this week.Their trucks are excellrent. We will have photo on our website as soon as the webmaster gets a whole new page replacvement posted.I will send photo if individually requested. Merle Rice Model RR Warehouse --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Howard R Garner <cascaderail@...> wrote: > > > If you think that you miss Central Valley trucks, think how I feel. Most of the LaBelle kits were originally engineered to use the CV trucks. Now days I either refer people to Bethlehem Car Works for the Old Red Ball Trucks, or to Precision Scale Company where a pair of trucks will cost almost as much as a kit. > > > > There are a lot of things that I'd like to do, but time and money are the biggest drawbacks. > > > > Rick Steele > > LaBelle Woodworking Co. > > > > How do the new Tahoe 5 ft archbars look as a CV replacement? > > Howard Garner >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16442	From: jake_iv@juno.com	Date: 4/4/2011
Subject: Re: Red Ball Rotary Snowplow

Hi Richard,    Try contacting Rick Steele at LaBelle Woodworking Co.  They are new owners of Red Ball and he can probably give you the info ASAP. jake_iv

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16443	From: Rick Jones	Date: 4/4/2011
Subject: Re: Tahoe Trucks was Red Ball Quikits

On 4/4/2011 7:03 AM, Model RailRoad wrote: > Tahoe is shipping the new 5ft archbars this week.Their trucks are > excellent. We will have photo on our website as soon as the > webmaster gets a whole new page replacement posted. I will send photo > if individually requested. Unfortunately they're rigid frame trucks. I only use sprung trucks on my models hence my disappointment at the loss of CVs in the marketplace. -- Rick Jones 'Tis an ill wind that blows no minds.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16444	From: jake_iv@juno.com	Date: 4/5/2011
Subject: Tyco Chattanooga Choo Choo

Does anyone have an exploded view diagram of the Chattanooga Choo Choo?  By trial and error I have been able to turn several of these locos into good operators but I still need a good exploded diagram.  Perhaps someone has a repair manual page that they can scan?? Thanks for any help. jake_iv Alabama Hill Country

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16445	From: Richard	Date: 4/6/2011
Subject: Re: Tyco Chattanooga Choo Choo

Jake, Try the HoSeeker. http://www.hoseeker.net/lit.html I've made several dandy running chattanooga's by slipping Mantua Makado drives under them. Richard Hamann in Vermont --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jake_iv@..." <jake_iv@...> wrote: > > Does anyone have an exploded view diagram of the Chattanooga Choo Choo? By trial and error I have been able to turn several of these locos into good operators but I still need a good exploded diagram. Perhaps someone has a repair manual page that they can scan?? > > Thanks for any help. > > jake_iv > Alabama Hill Country >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16446	From: Richard	Date: 4/6/2011
Subject: Re: Tyco Chattanooga Choo Choo

I take that back. It was an IHC drive that I used under the Tyco Chattanooga shell. Richard in Vermont --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Richard" <rh@...> wrote: > > Jake, > Try the HoSeeker. http://www.hoseeker.net/lit.html I've made several dandy running > chattanooga's by slipping Mantua Makado drives under them. > Richard Hamann in Vermont > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jake_iv@" <jake_iv@> wrote: > > > > Does anyone have an exploded view diagram of the Chattanooga Choo Choo? By trial and error I have been able to turn several of these locos into good operators but I still need a good exploded diagram. Perhaps someone has a repair manual page that they can scan?? > > > > Thanks for any help. > > > > jake_iv > > Alabama Hill Country > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16447	From: Mary Long	Date: 4/6/2011
Subject: Re: Possibly Off Topic

Tod , heres my two cents . Look for other sites , tyco . To see if they ran one of these , otherwise , maybe a special run ? Who knows ?   HH --- On Mon, 4/4/11, Riverboy <river_dweller_ohio@...> wrote: From: Riverboy <river_dweller_ohio@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Possibly Off Topic To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, April 4, 2011, 12:30 AM   I realize this group is mainly for vintage ( 1960's and earlier ) models, but maybe some fellow members can help me.   I recently acquired a lot of somewhat vintage ( 1970's I'm guessing ) train set models amongst "better" quality items. I'm very famailiar with both Tyco's and AHM's ( I'm not quite sure which company it is from ) common models from the era, but I had never seen this one until now. It is one of their 55' ACF covered hoppers, but it is decorated for Oscar Mayer. It has a couple of images of the "Wienermobile" one each side with the Oscar Mayer logo in the center. It also has "America's Favorite Wiener" across the side sills. Then again, I could be completely wrong and it could possibly be a much more recent release from someone who took over the old dies, since usually you can find "Tyco" or "AHM" on the underside.   I apologize if this is too off topic, but it got my curiosity going. Any help will be appreciated.   Tod from Ohio

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16448	From: jim heckard	Date: 4/6/2011
Subject: Next Project

Attachments : IMG_6959_1.JPG                  Got things pretty squared away to start rebuilding the American Flyer / Mantua FY&P 4-4-0. Finished the painting except the tender wood pile.  I want the paint to set a couple days. Have everything I need to complete it.  After it's finished there is an orange or orangish strip gets painted on the side of part of the walkway.                                                Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 16449	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 4/6/2011
Subject: Re: Tyco Chattanooga Choo Choo

I've seen some folks do the same by replacing the Tyco tender drive with the mech from a Bachmann GE 44 or 70 tonner switcher. It's a somewhat slow running drive. But if you are after a slow running drag- freight steamer, that works out. Best to ya, Mike Bauers Milwaukee, Wi On Apr 6, 2011, at 8:31 AM, Richard wrote: > Jake, > Try the HoSeeker. http://www.hoseeker.net/lit.html I've made > several dandy running > chattanooga's by slipping Mantua Makado drives under them. > Richard Hamann in Vermont > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jake_iv@..." <jake_iv@...> wrote: >> >> Does anyone have an exploded view diagram of the Chattanooga Choo >> Choo? By trial and error I have been able to turn several of these >> locos into good operators but I still need a good exploded >> diagram. Perhaps someone has a repair manual page that they can >> scan?? >> >> Thanks for any help.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16450	From: Nelson	Date: 4/6/2011
Subject: Re: Tyco Chattanooga Choo Choo

Hi Jake, There was only a very generic service sheet included with all of the Tyco Powetorque locos, so if there's an exploded diagram for the Chattanooga, I've never seen it. It probably never exited outside the factory. An easy way to make them more reliable is to replace the pancake motor with a tray motor from a disk drive. The gearing is still noisy, but runs a lot better. http://tinyurl.com/3kpb2x5 http://tinyurl.com/5u6zsur Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jake_iv@..." <jake_iv@...> wrote: > > Does anyone have an exploded view diagram of the Chattanooga Choo Choo? By trial and error I have been able to turn several of these locos into good operators but I still need a good exploded diagram. Perhaps someone has a repair manual page that they can scan?? > > Thanks for any help. > > jake_iv > Alabama Hill Country >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16451	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 4/6/2011
Subject: Re: Tyco Chattanooga Choo Choo

That looks like the motor from a computer CDROM drive. As CD drives have come in many speeds over the years, is there any specific speed you look for? I own a computer shop and have dozens of older CD drives hanging around. I would have never thought of using them for powering trains! -Steve Neubaum --- On Wed, 4/6/11, Nelson <greenbrier614@...> wrote: From: Nelson <greenbrier614@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Tyco Chattanooga Choo Choo To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, April 6, 2011, 7:36 PM   Hi Jake, There was only a very generic service sheet included with all of the Tyco Powetorque locos, so if there's an exploded diagram for the Chattanooga, I've never seen it. It probably never exited outside the factory. An easy way to make them more reliable is to replace the pancake motor with a tray motor from a disk drive. The gearing is still noisy, but runs a lot better. http://tinyurl.com/3kpb2x5 http://tinyurl.com/5u6zsur Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jake_iv@..." <jake_iv@...> wrote: > > Does anyone have an exploded view diagram of the Chattanooga Choo Choo? By trial and error I have been able to turn several of these locos into good operators but I still need a good exploded diagram. Perhaps someone has a repair manual page that they can scan?? > > Thanks for any help. > > jake_iv > Alabama Hill Country >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16452	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 4/6/2011
Subject: Re: Tyco Chattanooga Choo Choo

Make sure they are the 12 volt or 13 volt variety, most are 6 volt motors, but some are 12 or 13  and they usually say on the side of the motor.  I am getting ready to put one in an AHM 0-4-0 switcher.  I already checked and it works just fine with a DCC decoder. Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: computersystemrebuild@... Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2011 19:09:33 -0700 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Tyco Chattanooga Choo Choo   That looks like the motor from a computer CDROM drive. As CD drives have come in many speeds over the years, is there any specific speed you look for? I own a computer shop and have dozens of older CD drives hanging around. I would have never thought of using them for powering trains! -Steve Neubaum --- On Wed, 4/6/11, Nelson <greenbrier614@...> wrote: From: Nelson <greenbrier614@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Tyco Chattanooga Choo Choo To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, April 6, 2011, 7:36 PM   Hi Jake, There was only a very generic service sheet included with all of the Tyco Powetorque locos, so if there's an exploded diagram for the Chattanooga, I've never seen it. It probably never exited outside the factory. An easy way to make them more reliable is to replace the pancake motor with a tray motor from a disk drive. The gearing is still noisy, but runs a lot better. http://tinyurl.com/3kpb2x5 http://tinyurl.com/5u6zsur Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jake_iv@..." <jake_iv@...> wrote: > > Does anyone have an exploded view diagram of the Chattanooga Choo Choo? By trial and error I have been able to turn several of these locos into good operators but I still need a good exploded diagram. Perhaps someone has a repair manual page that they can scan?? > > Thanks for any help. > > jake_iv > Alabama Hill Country >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16453	From: Matthew	Date: 4/7/2011
Subject: Re: Next Project

Nice restoration/assembly work! --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > > > > > > Got things pretty squared away to start rebuilding the American Flyer / Mantua FY&P 4-4-0. Finished the painting except the tender wood pile. I want the paint to set a couple days. Have everything I need to complete it. After it's finished there is an orange or orangish strip gets painted on the side of part of the walkway. > > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16454	From: jake_iv@juno.com	Date: 4/7/2011
Subject: Re: Tyco Chattanooga Choo Choo

Thanks Nelson,   I couldn't find one in my records and I was an "Authoized Repair Station" when they were released.  Just wishful thinking I suppose.   I don't expect to repower any of them - If I did I would probably go all the way and use a NWSL truck in the tender or put a gear on the steam cam driver along with a small can motor. Jake

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16455	From: jake_iv@juno.com	Date: 4/7/2011
Subject: Re: Tyco Chattanooga Choo Choo

Thanks to everyone who replied.  I haven't had a problem getting them to run well.  Most of the problems that I've found were poor castings interfering with the running gear or broken draw bars.  The road that I model, (Md & Pa) did not have any 0-8-0' s and the Chatanooga as a 2-8-0 just doesn't do it for me.  What I was hoping for was a diagram showing the boiler guts vs run gear. Thanks again to everyone. Jake

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16456	From: Richard	Date: 4/8/2011
Subject: CASEY JONES HO PIONEER SLEEVE SWITCH KIT

Could someone explain what this is? I came across it on eBay and didn't know what it was. Richard in Vermont

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16457	From: ckinzer@att.net	Date: 4/8/2011
Subject: Re: CASEY JONES HO PIONEER SLEEVE SWITCH KIT

Wild guess.  You use it something along the order of what a "phone plug" is (the sort that phone operators used to use).  I'm guessing you somehow have a hole and position the two brass pieces, perhaps needed to bend them.  When you push in the cylinder, the brass section of it contacts one or both.  A wire goes to each of the brass tabs and also the the barrel itself.  And perhaps there is a way to arrange the two brass tabs so they contact each other if the barrel is removed.  I don't understand the partial holes on the edge of the brass tabs, however.   I saw something else a long time ago from this same company.  I think it was switch machine or switch machine control related.  So may that is a hint.   Chuck Kinzer   ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, April 08, 2011 8:21 AM Subject: [vintageHO] CASEY JONES HO PIONEER SLEEVE SWITCH KIT   Could someone explain what this is? I came across it on eBay and didn't know what it was. Richard in Vermont

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16458	From: Gary Mittner	Date: 4/8/2011
Subject: For Sale: Steamers

Hello,     I have a trio of HO steam locos I am interested in selling. The first is a Penn Line PRR L1s 2-8-2. Could be a Bowser but I think it is old enough to have been Penn Line. No big deal as I think they are identical. It is an ok runner on my test track. Could be tweaked a bit. An older model built from a stock kit. Good condition. The other two are English Yard Bird PRR A5s 0-4-0's. Both need restored or tweaked as well. I think if the two were combined, one decent model can be had. One tender has broken rear steps, the other a broken draw bar. Basic built kits. Comes with an original English Yard Bird box. All for $75.00 plus shipping. contact me off list. I do have a pic of the three models. Thanks, Gary

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16459	From: Gary Mittner	Date: 4/8/2011
Subject: For Sale: Vintage Brass Diesel. Have no idea what it is!

Hello,     I have a very Vintage brass diesel. I am guessing it is from the 1950's, Heck maybe even from the late 1940's? Kinda looks like an E7/E8 but is a bit shorter in length and with numerous small windows on the body sides. I have a pic of this model I can send to an email. It is painted in Milwaukee Road colors. Of course it is an older paint job and needs redone, if that is the best thing to do?  It has one 6 wheel power truck on the rear (4 wheels powered) and a dummy 6 wheel truck up front. You experts may know the history, I don't. Runs ok on my test track. Of course its a growler, it is from the early days you know! I see only one side stirrup step missing. If interested or if you have info, please feel free to email me. It won't break your bank if you are interested in its purchase. I just never seen anything like this one. Could fill in your roster as a uni que piece. Thanks for reading......Gary

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16460	From: Donald R. Staton	Date: 4/8/2011
Subject: Re: For Sale: Steamers

How much for just the L1s, 2-8-2?  Don Staton in VA. ========================================================================== On 4/8/2011 6:31 PM, Gary Mittner wrote:   Hello,     I have a trio of HO steam locos I am interested in selling. The first is a Penn Line PRR L1s 2-8-2. Could be a Bowser but I think it is old enough to have been Penn Line. No big deal as I think they are identical. It is an ok runner on my test track. Could be tweaked a bit. An older model built from a stock kit. Good condition. The other two are English Yard Bird PRR A5s 0-4-0's. Both need restored or tweaked as well. I think if the two were combined, one decent model can be had. One tender has broken rear steps, the other a broken draw bar. Basic built kits. Comes with an original English Yard Bird box. All for $75.00 plus shipping. contact me off list. I do have a pic of the three models. Thanks, Gary

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16461	From: Gary Mittner	Date: 4/8/2011
Subject: Re: For Sale: Steamers

Hi Don,     Just sold them moments ago. Thanks for the interest though. I may find other older stuff in my own collection I need to sale.  Keep an eye over the coming weeks. Thanks, Gary From: Donald R. Staton Sent: Friday, April 8, 2011 7:31 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] For Sale: Steamers How much for just the L1s, 2-8-2?  Don Staton in VA. ========================================================================== On 4/8/2011 6:31 PM, Gary Mittner wrote:   Hello,     I have a trio of HO steam locos I am interested in selling. The first is a Penn Line PRR L1s 2-8-2. Could be a Bowser but I think it is old enough to have been Penn Line. No big deal as I think they are identical. It is an ok runner on my test track. Could be tweaked a bit. An older model built from a stock kit. Good condition. The other two are English Yard Bird PRR A5s 0-4-0's. Both need restored or tweaked as well. I think if the two were combined, one decent model can be had. One tender has broken rear steps, the other a broken draw bar. Basic built kits. Comes with an original English Yard Bird box. All for $75.00 plus shipping. contact me off list. I do have a pic of the three models. Thanks, Gary

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16462	From: Donald R. Staton	Date: 4/8/2011
Subject: Re: For Sale: Steamers

Thank you!  Don Staton in VA. ============================================================================================ On 4/8/2011 7:39 PM, Gary Mittner wrote:   Hi Don,     Just sold them moments ago. Thanks for the interest though. I may find other older stuff in my own collection I need to sale.  Keep an eye over the coming weeks. Thanks, Gary

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16463	From: tieplatejunction	Date: 4/8/2011
Subject: Re: Tyco Chattanooga Choo Choo

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote: > > That looks like the motor from a computer CDROM drive. > > As CD drives have come in many speeds over the years, is there any specific speed you look for? > > I own a computer shop and have dozens of older CD drives hanging around. I would have never thought of using them for powering trains! > > -Steve Neubaum > > --- On Wed, 4/6/11, Nelson <greenbrier614@...> wrote: > > From: Nelson <greenbrier614@...> > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Tyco Chattanooga Choo Choo > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, April 6, 2011, 7:36 PM > > > > > > > >   > > > > > > > > > > Hi Jake, > > > > There was only a very generic service sheet included with all of the Tyco Powetorque locos, so if there's an exploded diagram for the Chattanooga, I've never seen it. It probably never exited outside the factory. > > > > An easy way to make them more reliable is to replace the pancake motor with a tray motor from a disk drive. The gearing is still noisy, but runs a lot better. > > > > http://tinyurl.com/3kpb2x5 > > > > http://tinyurl.com/5u6zsur > > > > Nelson > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jake_iv@" <jake_iv@> wrote: > > > > > > Does anyone have an exploded view diagram of the Chattanooga Choo Choo? By trial and error I have been able to turn several of these locos into good operators but I still need a good exploded diagram. Perhaps someone has a repair manual page that they can scan?? > > > > > > Thanks for any help. > > > > > > jake_iv > > > Alabama Hill Country > > > > I use those CD ROM motors in all my TYCO rebuilds...they work great. BTW, the large gear is shown reversed with its teeth removed and placed where the smaller pinion gear was, a work of necessity as the pinion gear split and I had no spares... http://s126.photobucket.com/albums/p96/1shaygetz/videos/?action=view¤t=PA060189.mp4

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16464	From: Gary Mittner	Date: 4/8/2011
Subject: Re: For Sale: Vintage Brass Diesel. Have no idea what it is!

List,     I added a photo to the photo section, album: "Gary's Stuff"  of the early brass Diesel model. If you have info, please share. It is also still for sale. Thanks, Gary

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16465	From: dennyanspach	Date: 4/8/2011
Subject: Re: Tahoe Trucks was Red Ball Quikits

Unfortunately they're rigid frame trucks. I only use sprung trucks  on my models hence my disappointment at the loss of CVs in the marketplace. The traditional maker and purveyor of sprung metal freight trucks since Central Valley's demise decades ago has been and is Kadee; and they are currently phasing them out in place of new designs made up of an unusual heavy plastic and no inserted springs.  Although they are not "sprung", they  are equalized by an ingenious articulating joint in the truck bolster. I too horde my old CVs, and a lot of Kadees to place under my fine historic craft cars. However, the CVs -every single one of them- require tailored wheel replacements to allow them to roll to established modern standards (in repeated documented tests in this regard, the original CV's rollability standards are pretty poor- or worse    [sorry!]).  Even brand new Kadees can benefit  from tailored wheel replacement in this regard.  That said, it has been demonstrated time and time again that the springs in these trucks offer no advantage whatsoever to improved tracking despite a lot of wistful hoping and theorizing that they might or should. The weight on the trucks and the stiffness of even the most fine springs is never enough to actually allow the springs to truly function, either independently or  as a group.   For the prototype modeler aspiring to precision in scaling, the fact that the CV trucks are  all too wide, and both CV and Kadee have only two thin transparent springs in a truck whose prototype should have three to five heavy springs through which you should not be able to see has rendered them not very desirable. The latter is the prime reason why Kadee is changing- as we speak.  That they will have to no longer employ entry level people to insert springs is another reason (all new Kadee employees traditionally start out inserting springs!).  The Tahoe trucks track beautifully, roll beautifully as well, are absolutely to scale; and the fact that there are no working springs represents to these modelers neither  visual or operational issues.  Small masterpieces. Denny Denny S.  Anspach MD Sacramento

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16466	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 4/9/2011
Subject: Re: Next Project [1 Attachment]

Looks good Jim, will be a smart looking loco when back together.   Take care,   Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of jim heckard Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2011 5:27 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Next Project [1 Attachment]                      Got things pretty squared away to start rebuilding the American Flyer / Mantua FY&P 4-4-0. Finished the painting except the tender wood pile.  I want the paint to set a couple days. Have everything I need to complete it.  After it's finished there is an orange or orangish strip gets painted on the side of part of the walkway.                                                Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16467	From: jim heckard	Date: 4/9/2011
Subject: Re: Next Project

It will be a nice project if I get the push I need to do it. I have not felt right for about two months and doing anything seems to be a struggle.  I see a doctor Monday.     Now Louise has come up with a medical problem and sees a hematologist about it Tuesday. They found something called an abnormal mono clonal band and won't say anything else .They say don't worry it could be simple.Yet reading Google I see nothing " simple" involved. Waiting bad enough finding out the results could be worse. Bad week end.                                             Jim     ----- Original Message ----- From: Chuck Higdon To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2011 9:46 AM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Next Project   Looks good Jim, will be a smart looking loco when back together. Take care, Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104 From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of jim heckard Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2011 5:27 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Next Project [1 Attachment]              Got things pretty squared away to start rebuilding the American Flyer / Mantua FY&P 4-4-0. Finished the painting except the tender wood pile.  I want the paint to set a couple days. Have everything I need to complete it.  After it's finished there is an orange or orangish strip gets painted on the side of part of the walkway.                                              Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16468	From: jim heckard	Date: 4/9/2011
Subject: Re: Next Project

--Hi All,         I must apolgize about the last email I sent. I thought it was addressed to Chuck Higdon direct. I didn't notice his email was on the site address. So forgive me as it is off topic.                Jim H     --- Original Message ----- From: jim heckard To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2011 11:08 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Next Project    It will be a nice project if I get the push I need to do it. I have not felt right for about two months and doing anything seems to be a struggle.  I see a doctor Monday.     Now Louise has come up with a medical problem and sees a hematologist about it Tuesday. They found something called an abnormal mono clonal band and won't say anything else .They say don't worry it could be simple.Yet reading Google I see nothing " simple" involved. Waiting bad enough finding out the results could be worse. Bad week end.                                             Jim     ----- Original Message ----- From: Chuck Higdon To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2011 9:46 AM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Next Project   Looks good Jim, will be a smart looking loco when back together. Take care, Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104 From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of jim heckard Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2011 5:27 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Next Project [1 Attachment]            Got things pretty squared away to start rebuilding the American Flyer / Mantua FY&P 4-4-0. Finished the painting except the tender wood pile.  I want the paint to set a couple days. Have everything I need to complete it.  After it's finished there is an orange or orangish strip gets painted on the side of part of the walkway.                                              Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16469	From: Gary Mittner	Date: 4/9/2011
Subject: For Sale: Bass 0-6-6-0 Steam

List,     I have available for purchase an HO Scale Brass 0-6-6-0 Mallet. It is circa 1960ish I believe? I was told it represents one that was used on the B&O. I always thought it would make an excellent freelance logging or coal mine loco. But, I have no use for it anymore. It was made in Japan and imported by Aristocraft. Solidly built, remains unpainted. Just a little tarnish after 50 plus years of exsistance.  Pics can be found here: http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/arttic1.JPG http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/arttic2.JPG http://ww w.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/arttic3.JPG http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/arttic4.JPG http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/arttic5.JPG     Price is $225.00. I will pay shipping to any new home. Contact me off list if you have any interest. Thanks, Gary

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16470	From: Nelson	Date: 4/9/2011
Subject: Re: Tyco Chattanooga Choo Choo

I've used both disk drive tray and spindle motors (spindle motors are about the same diameter, but longer than pancake style tray motors) that are marked 5.9 volts, and they handle 15 volts easily. You may occasionally come across one that can't, but you'll know it very quickly by the high RPM's and heat it generates. The one in my photos was a tray motor marked for 5.9V. The only problem I've had was the brushes wearing through on one of them, since they're precious metal instead of carbon and don't like a lot of current. Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> wrote: > > > Make sure they are the 12 volt or 13 volt variety, most are 6 volt motors, but some are 12 or 13 and they usually say on the side of the motor. I am getting ready to put one in an AHM 0-4-0 switcher. I already checked and it works just fine with a DCC decoder. > Regards, > Vic Bitleris > Raleigh, NC > > > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > From: computersystemrebuild@... > Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2011 19:09:33 -0700 > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Tyco Chattanooga Choo Choo > > > > > > > > That looks like the motor from a computer CDROM drive. > > As CD drives have come in many speeds over the years, is there any specific speed you look for? > > I own a computer shop and have dozens of older CD drives hanging around. I would have never thought of using them for powering trains! > > -Steve Neubaum

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16471	From: Nelson	Date: 4/9/2011
Subject: Re: Tyco Chattanooga Choo Choo

I agree that motorizing the loco is a much better way to go, and it's on my project list. I just wanted to see how well it would work with a decent motor in the tender. The owner of Tyco at the time, Consolidated Foods, marketed these locos as toys, hence the generic instructions. Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jake_iv@..." <jake_iv@...> wrote: > > Thanks Nelson, > > I couldn't find one in my records and I was an "Authoized Repair Station" when they were released. Just wishful thinking I suppose. > > I don't expect to repower any of them - If I did I would probably go all the way and use a NWSL truck in the tender or put a gear on the steam cam driver along with a small can motor. > > Jake >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16472	From: Graeme	Date: 4/9/2011
Subject: Re: CASEY JONES HO PIONEER SLEEVE SWITCH KIT

In message <inn952+vsr0@...>, Richard <rh@...> writes >Could someone explain what this is? I came across it on eBay and didn't >know what it was. "The Wonderful Little Casey Jones Switch Machine" was the catalogue listing - their larger model was "The Challenger". -- Graeme Eldred, Scotland TCA 04-57743

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16473	From: Nelson	Date: 4/9/2011
Subject: AHM Brass

I had heard that AHM imported a brass steamer years ago, but I'd never seen it until this auction. http://tinyurl.com/3tvp5jz I read somewhere (maybe here) that they were like factory seconds that had problems like poorly soldered detail, etc. It's a darn nice looking model of a Milwaukee F-6, though. Anyone here ever own one? I also noticed AHM 'buy one, bet one' stickers on HOTCO boxes for New One locos in two separate auctions recently. http://tinyurl.com/42l7s5v I guess this was from the transition point from HOTCO to AHM, which would have been when... the late fifties? Nelson

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16474	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 4/9/2011
Subject: Re: Next Project

Good luck and my prayers are with both of you. Don ----- Original Message ----- From: "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2011 10:08 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Next Project It will be a nice project if I get the push I need to do it. I have not felt right for about two months and doing anything seems to be a struggle. I see a doctor Monday. Now Louise has come up with a medical problem and sees a hematologist about it Tuesday. They found something called an abnormal mono clonal band and won't say anything else .They say don't worry it could be simple.Yet reading Google I see nothing " simple" involved. Waiting bad enough finding out the results could be worse. Bad week end. Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: Chuck Higdon To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2011 9:46 AM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Next Project Looks good Jim, will be a smart looking loco when back together. Take care, Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jim heckard Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2011 5:27 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Next Project [1 Attachment] Got things pretty squared away to start rebuilding the American Flyer / Mantua FY&P 4-4-0. Finished the painting except the tender wood pile. I want the paint to set a couple days. Have everything I need to complete it. After it's finished there is an orange or orangish strip gets painted on the side of part of the walkway. Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16475	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 4/9/2011
Subject: Re: AHM Brass

Also had a PRR J class Texas. Definitely NOT a factory second. Lovely model of a magnificent engine. Walter On Sat, Apr 9, 2011 at 4:38 PM, Nelson <greenbrier614@...> wrote:   I had heard that AHM imported a brass steamer years ago, but I'd never seen it until this auction. http://tinyurl.com/3tvp5jz I read somewhere (maybe here) that they were like factory seconds that had problems like poorly soldered detail, etc. It's a darn nice looking model of a Milwaukee F-6, though. Anyone here ever own one? I also noticed AHM 'buy one, bet one' stickers on HOTCO boxes for New One locos in two separate auctions recently. http://tinyurl.com/42l7s5v I guess this was from the transition point from HOTCO to AHM, which would have been when... the late fifties? Nelson -- Regards, Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16476	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 4/9/2011
Subject: Re: Next Project

I am really sorry to hear that Jim, I am really hoping the news is good. Take car, both of you. Sean    1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! From: Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, April 9, 2011 5:18:51 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Next Project   Good luck and my prayers are with both of you. Don ----- Original Message ----- From: "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2011 10:08 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Next Project It will be a nice project if I get the push I need to do it. I have not felt right for about two months and doing anything seems to be a struggle. I see a doctor Monday. Now Louise has come up with a medical problem and sees a hematologist about it Tuesday. They found something called an abnormal mono clonal band and won't say anything else .They say don't worry it could be simple.Yet reading Google I see nothing " simple" involved. Waiting bad enough finding out the results could be worse. Bad week end. Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: Chuck Higdon To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2011 9:46 AM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Next Project Looks good Jim, will be a smart looking loco when back together. Take care, Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104 ---------------------------------------------------------- From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jim heckard Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2011 5:27 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Next Project [1 Attachment] Got things pretty squared away to start rebuilding the American Flyer / Mantua FY&P 4-4-0. Finished the painting except the tender wood pile. I want the paint to set a couple days. Have everything I need to complete it. After it's finished there is an orange or orangish strip gets painted on the side of part of the walkway. Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16477	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 4/10/2011
Subject: Ostuco decal project

Attachments : OSTX 1902.jpg Ostuco pair.jpg Regarding the recent Ostuco decal project, for my first effort I did a copy of the later Varney version where they applied their scheme to their regular 40' gondola without the end arch. The yellow doesn't match, but then probably neither did the prototypes after they'd been on the road awhile <G>. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 16478	From: jake_iv@juno.com	Date: 4/10/2011
Subject: Re: AHM Brass

Note to all - Re.: AHM brass,  I stocked and sold the AHM brass imports throughout their existence.  As a dealer my only complaint was that they didn't make enough models!  They were definitely not "factory Seconds" .  Unlike many of the models that I got from PFM, NWSL, NJ Custom, Hallmark and many others I cannot recall even ONE instance where I had to work on an AHM brass loco before delivering it to a customer.  I can't recall a single complaint from a purchaser of one of these locos.  I have a host of memories of other makers whose offerings didn't come close to expectations.  I recall a factory painted CB&Q from NKP that ran like a charm,  until you tried to pull a train with it.  In the days of 40 cent gas this $275.00 loco couldn't pull 3 of the brass passenger cars that were designed to run with it.   If you want a vintage brass that you can depend on it is AHM or Akane.  I never had an operational complaint about either of those makes. Jake-iv formerly: Jac's Model Trains Doc's Loco Works Jac's Hobby Hut

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16479	From: jake_iv@juno.com	Date: 4/10/2011
Subject: Re: AHM Brass

Just some personal observations about AHM:  Use it for what it is worth to you. AHM was an outgrowth of the GHC - General Hobbies Corp wholesale operation run by Bernie Paul.  n interesting setup since his spouse was heir to Woolworth !  Bernie was hell to deal with as a dealer and advertised order terms were often ignored and billing was a b--ch.  Not to mention that a prime supplier for AHM was Rivarossi.  Rivarossi was a great company with a host of fantastic products and some of the best tool & die men in the business.  Unfortunately, they also produced their products in up to TWELVE  quality variations for each model - especially the higher level models!  For a "for instance" - Bernie supplied the Woolworth and Woolco store with basic quality models and a retail customer would see a Big Boy in Woolworth for $30 or $40 and come into the store and see my offerings at $150 and get irritated that I was "cheating" him.  When you buy a Rivarossi model from eBay or similar locations - you need to be aware that the model may be anything from a basic unit with the cheapest motor and very limited detailing to a "Modeler" quality unit with full, high quality detailing and a great motor and very smooth gearing and drive train AND BOTH UNITS WILL HAVE THE SAME STOCK NUMBER!    The above not withstanding.  It is my opinion that until the '90s, the best tool and die work in the industry came out of Rivarossi.  Frateschi in Brazil has some of their tooling,  Bachmann's parent company has some of it and PMI got some of it.  Where and when available it is really worthwhile to check out Rivarossi and their successors. Jake_iv

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16480	From: jake_iv@juno.com	Date: 4/10/2011
Subject: Re: Tyco Chattanooga Choo Choo

I think that I may finally do a full loco re-power for one of them.  I put one up for sale in our club show Saturday at $40 - fully restored, painted and lettered as a USRA 0-8-0 (the actual prototype design of the loco) and didn't get one "bite" so maybe I'll do one and donate it to the club.  NWSL catalogs a couple of gear box sets for Mantua including a 60 or 70:1 reduction gearing box that I think would be great for a heavy switcher or the mantua 0-4-0 when coupled to one of the smaller can motors.    Since the drivers are insulated from the factory, pick-up could be via wipers on the driver backs and fed directly to DCC decoder or the motor.  Only one driver would need to be modified and re-quartered and if you teamed it to one of the Bachmann USRA short tenders you would have a very good running and accurate model.  Of course, getting your hands on an original Mantua 0-8-0 kit and re-gearing and re-motoring it would do just as well. jake_iv

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16481	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 4/10/2011
Subject: Re: Next Project

Jim, Just saw your messages from yesterday (I hadn't tuned in until now). No need for any apologies as far as I'm concerned. As we're all a fairly close knit group, we're all interested in how each other is doing. Sorry to hear that you two aren't feeling up to par. Hadn't known you guys haven't been feeling right, of course, since we don't normally discuss it. Hope the tests go well and that you're both feeling better soon. Take care, Ray F. W. </HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16482	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 4/10/2011
Subject: Re: Ostuco decal project [2 Attachments]

That looks really good.  What color did you end up using on these? Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: VintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: don.dellmann@... Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2011 09:06:10 -0500 Subject: [vintageHO] Ostuco decal project [2 Attachments]   [Attachment(s) from Don Dellmann included below] Regarding the recent Ostuco decal project, for my first effort I did a copy of the later Varney version where they applied their scheme to their regular 40' gondola without the end arch. The yellow doesn't match, but then probably neither did the prototypes after they'd been on the road awhile <G>. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16483	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 4/10/2011
Subject: Re: Ostuco decal project

Testors "Modelmaster" Bright yellow, no. 2917, because that's what I had on the shelf in a spray bomb. It's over red oxide primer, which tones it down a little. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "Victor Bitleris" <bitlerisvj@...> To: <vintageho@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2011 10:46 AM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Ostuco decal project That looks really good. What color did you end up using on these? Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16484	From: Nelson	Date: 4/10/2011
Subject: Re: AHM Brass

Thanks for the info, Jake. AS I said, I have no idea on what group or forum I read that they were problematic. Makes we wish I'd bid on it. Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jake_iv@..." <jake_iv@...> wrote: > > Note to all - Re.: AHM brass, I stocked and sold the AHM brass imports throughout their existence. As a dealer my only complaint was that they didn't make enough models! They were definitely not "factory Seconds" . Unlike many of the models that I got from PFM, NWSL, NJ Custom, Hallmark and many others I cannot recall even ONE instance where I had to work on an AHM brass loco before delivering it to a customer. I can't recall a single complaint from a purchaser of one of these locos. I have a host of memories of other makers whose offerings didn't come close to expectations. I recall a factory painted CB&Q from NKP that ran like a charm, until you tried to pull a train with it. In the days of 40 cent gas this $275.00 loco couldn't pull 3 of the brass passenger cars that were designed to run with it. > > If you want a vintage brass that you can depend on it is AHM or Akane. I never had an operational complaint about either of those makes. > > Jake-iv > > > formerly: > Jac's Model Trains > Doc's Loco Works > Jac's Hobby Hut >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16485	From: Nelson	Date: 4/10/2011
Subject: Re: Next Project

Keep your head up, Jim. I pray it turns out to be nothing. Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > I am really sorry to hear that Jim, > > I am really hoping the news is good. Take car, both of you. > > Sean > > 1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! > > > > > ________________________________ > From: Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sat, April 9, 2011 5:18:51 PM > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Next Project > > > Good luck and my prayers are with both of you. > > Don > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2011 10:08 AM > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Next Project > > It will be a nice project if I get the push I need to do it. I have not > felt right for about two months and doing anything seems to be a struggle. > I see a doctor Monday. > > Now Louise has come up with a medical problem and sees a hematologist > about it Tuesday. They found something called an abnormal mono clonal band > and won't say anything else .They say don't worry it could be simple.Yet > reading Google I see nothing " simple" involved. Waiting bad enough finding > out the results could be worse. Bad week end. > > Jim

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16486	From: Nelson	Date: 4/10/2011
Subject: Re: Tyco Chattanooga Choo Choo

Hi there, Bob. I didn't realize you were on this group. I tried using the pinion part of the large reduction gear after seeing your video some months ago. It worked well, and the gear noise wasn't as sharp, but I went back to the brass pinion. Overall I think it's a little bit quieter. Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "tieplatejunction" <tieplatejunction@...> wrote: > > I use those CD ROM motors in all my TYCO rebuilds...they work great. BTW, the large gear is shown reversed with its teeth removed and placed where the smaller pinion gear was, a work of necessity as the pinion gear split and I had no spares... http://s126.photobucket.com/albums/p96/1shaygetz/videos/?action=view¤t=PA060189.mp4 >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16487	From: rcjge	Date: 4/11/2011
Subject: 2-4-4T Forney Pics sought???

Hey Guys: I had a pic somewhere of a 2-4-4T Tank engine/Forney. It looked a little like an MDC Yard Hog, with a Forney four wheel tender like rear. I was planning on using a Mantua 0-4-0 chassis and a metal MDC Yard Hog Supersctucture etc to Kitbash something like it. It was a prototype pic and I can't find it on my computer or in my emails so, I was hoping if someone knew where there was a link to such a pic or had one could you email me the link or post it here, and if a pic email it directly to me. I'd really appreciate this guys. Btw, no I'm NOT talking about the MDC static model from years ago. This was a prototype as I said. Thanks one and all.... -Gareth Bradford

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16488	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 4/11/2011
Subject: Re: 2-4-4T Forney Pics sought???

----- Original Message ----- From: "rcjge" <jgpedwards@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 5:42 PM Subject: [vintageHO] 2-4-4T Forney Pics sought??? > Hey Guys: > > I had a pic somewhere of a 2-4-4T Tank engine/Forney. It looked a little > like an MDC Yard Hog, with a Forney four wheel tender like rear. I was > planning on using a Mantua 0-4-0 chassis and a metal MDC Yard Hog > Supersctucture etc to Kitbash something like it. > > It was a prototype pic and I can't find it on my computer or in my emails > so, I was hoping if someone knew where there was a link to such a pic or > had one could you email me the link or post it here, and if a pic email it > directly to me. > > I'd really appreciate this guys. Btw, no I'm NOT talking about the MDC > static model from years ago. This was a prototype as I said. > > Thanks one and all.... > > -Gareth > Bradford How many do you want? http://www.google.com/images?hl=en&source=hp&biw=1148&bih=631&q=Forney+2-4-4-t&btnG=Search+Images&gbv=2&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=orhttp://tinyurl.com/3f6tfrjDonDon Dellmanndon.dellmann@...://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTractionOwnerhttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHOhttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16489	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 4/11/2011
Subject: Re: 2-4-4T Forney Pics sought???

Looks like my reader loused up the links again. Hopefully this will work http://tinyurl.com/3f6tfrj Don ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 7:00 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] 2-4-4T Forney Pics sought??? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "rcjge" <jgpedwards@...> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 5:42 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] 2-4-4T Forney Pics sought??? > > >> Hey Guys: >> >> I had a pic somewhere of a 2-4-4T Tank engine/Forney. It looked a little >> like an MDC Yard Hog, with a Forney four wheel tender like rear. I was >> planning on using a Mantua 0-4-0 chassis and a metal MDC Yard Hog >> Supersctucture etc to Kitbash something like it. >> >> It was a prototype pic and I can't find it on my computer or in my emails >> so, I was hoping if someone knew where there was a link to such a pic or >> had one could you email me the link or post it here, and if a pic email >> it >> directly to me. >> >> I'd really appreciate this guys. Btw, no I'm NOT talking about the MDC >> static model from years ago. This was a prototype as I said. >> >> Thanks one and all.... >> >> -Gareth >> Bradford > > How many do you want? > > http://www.google.com/images?hl=en&source=hp&biw=1148&bih=631&q=Forney+2-4-4-t&btnG=Search+Images&gbv=2&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=orhttp://tinyurl.com/3f6tfrjDonDon > Dellmanndon.dellmann@...://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTractionOwnerhttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHOhttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16490	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 4/11/2011
Subject: Re: 2-4-4T Forney Pics sought???

Both links worked for me. Both to the same incredible page. Walter On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 8:17 PM, Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote:   Looks like my reader loused up the links again. Hopefully this will work http://tinyurl.com/3f6tfrj Don ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 7:00 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] 2-4-4T Forney Pics sought??? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "rcjge" <jgpedwards@...> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 5:42 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] 2-4-4T Forney Pics sought??? > > >> Hey Guys: >> >> I had a pic somewhere of a 2-4-4T Tank engine/Forney. It looked a little >> like an MDC Yard Hog, with a Forney four wheel tender like rear. I was >> planning on using a Mantua 0-4-0 chassis and a metal MDC Yard Hog >> Supersctucture etc to Kitbash something like it. >> >> It was a prototype pic and I can't find it on my computer or in my emails >> so, I was hoping if someone knew where there was a link to such a pic or >> had one could you email me the link or post it here, and if a pic email >> it >> directly to me. >> >> I'd really appreciate this guys. Btw, no I'm NOT talking about the MDC >> static model from years ago. This was a prototype as I said. >> >> Thanks one and all.... >> >> -Gareth >> Bradford > > How many do you want? > > http://www.google.com/images?hl=en&source=hp&biw=1148&bih=631&q=Forney+2-4-4-t&btnG=Search+Images&gbv=2&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=orhttp://tinyurl.com/3f6tfrjDonDon > Dellmanndon.dellmann@...://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTractionOwnerhttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHOhttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > -- Regards, Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16491	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 4/12/2011
Subject: Re: 2-4-4T Forney Pics sought???

Hi Gareth,   Here are two sucessful kitbashes I own (neither done by me - one needs to be compled by me however):   http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/4286285662/in/set-72157623241615384   &   http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/4286285612/in/set-72157623241615384   Sounds like a fun project!   Sean    1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! From: Walter Bayer II <bayerw2@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, April 11, 2011 11:14:05 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] 2-4-4T Forney Pics sought???   Both links worked for me. Both to the same incredible page. Walter On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 8:17 PM, Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote:   Looks like my reader loused up the links again. Hopefully this will work http://tinyurl.com/3f6tfrj Don ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 7:00 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] 2-4-4T Forney Pics sought??? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "rcjge" <jgpedwards@...> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 5:42 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] 2-4-4T Forney Pics sought??? > > >> Hey Guys: >> >> I had a pic somewhere of a 2-4-4T Tank engine/Forney. It looked a little >> like an MDC Yard Hog, with a Forney four wheel tender like rear. I was >> planning on using a Mantua 0-4-0 chassis and a metal MDC Yard Hog >> Supersctucture etc to Kitbash something like it. >> >> It was a prototype pic and I can't find it on my computer or in my emails >> so, I was hoping if someone knew where there was a link to such a pic or >> had one could you email me the link or post it here, and if a pic email >> it >> directly to me. >> >> I'd really appreciate this guys. Btw, no I'm NOT talking about the MDC >> static model from years ago. This was a prototype as I said. >> >> Thanks one and all.... >> >> -Gareth >> Bradford > > How many do you want? > > http://www.google.com/images?hl=en&source=hp&biw=1148&bih=631&q=Forney+2-4-4-t&btnG=Search+Images&gbv=2&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=orhttp://tinyurl.com/3f6tfrjDonDon > Dellmanndon.dellmann@...://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTractionOwnerhttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHOhttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > -- Regards, Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16492	From: rcjge	Date: 4/12/2011
Subject: Re: 2-4-4T Forney Pics sought???

Thanks Guys: The picture I had sure looked like someone was using an MDC Yard Hog to start from. Any way thats where I'll start.... btw, Sean, do you have a Metal Roundhouse/MDC Yard Hog Boiler kicking around??? -Gareth --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > Hi Gareth, > > Here are two sucessful kitbashes I own (neither done by me - one needs to be > compled by me however): > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/4286285662/in/set-72157623241615384 > > & > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/4286285612/in/set-72157623241615384 > > Sounds like a fun project! > > Sean  > 1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! > > > > > ________________________________ > From: Walter Bayer II <bayerw2@...> > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Mon, April 11, 2011 11:14:05 PM > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] 2-4-4T Forney Pics sought??? > >   > Both links worked for me. Both to the same incredible page. > Walter > > > On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 8:17 PM, Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > >   > >Looks like my reader loused up the links again. > > > >Hopefully this will work > > > >http://tinyurl.com/3f6tfrj > > > >Don > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> > >To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > > > >Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 7:00 PM > >Subject: Re: [vintageHO] 2-4-4T Forney Pics sought??? > > > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "rcjge" <jgpedwards@...> > >> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > >> Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 5:42 PM > >> Subject: [vintageHO] 2-4-4T Forney Pics sought??? > >> > >> > >>> Hey Guys: > >>> > >>> I had a pic somewhere of a 2-4-4T Tank engine/Forney. It looked a little > >>> like an MDC Yard Hog, with a Forney four wheel tender like rear. I was > >>> planning on using a Mantua 0-4-0 chassis and a metal MDC Yard Hog > >>> Supersctucture etc to Kitbash something like it. > >>> > >>> It was a prototype pic and I can't find it on my computer or in my emails > >>> so, I was hoping if someone knew where there was a link to such a pic or > >>> had one could you email me the link or post it here, and if a pic email > >>> it > >>> directly to me. > >>> > >>> I'd really appreciate this guys. Btw, no I'm NOT talking about the MDC > >>> static model from years ago. This was a prototype as I said. > >>> > >>> Thanks one and all.... > >>> > >>> -Gareth > >>> Bradford > >> > >> How many do you want? > >> > >>http://www.google.com/images?hl=en&source=hp&biw=1148&bih=631&q=Forney+2-4-4-t&btnG=Search+Images&gbv=2&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=orhttp://tinyurl.com/3f6tfrjDonDon > >>n > >> > >>Dellmanndon.dellmann@...://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTractionOwnerhttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHOhttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery > >>y > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------------ > >> > >> Yahoo! Groups Links > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > -- > Regards, > Walter >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16493	From: 23weldon	Date: 4/12/2011
Subject: Re: 2-4-4T Forney Pics sought???

Gareth - I sent a bunch of pics your way by direct email. 2 plus mb worth.  Should be mostly different from the ones on Google photos. Ed Weldon

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16494	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 4/13/2011
Subject: Re: 2-4-4T Forney Pics sought???

I think I do Gareth.   I tend to like them myself. I'll have to take a look to see if I have any lose shells.   Sean     1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! From: rcjge <jgpedwards@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, April 12, 2011 11:05:28 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: 2-4-4T Forney Pics sought???   Thanks Guys: The picture I had sure looked like someone was using an MDC Yard Hog to start from. Any way thats where I'll start.... btw, Sean, do you have a Metal Roundhouse/MDC Yard Hog Boiler kicking around??? -Gareth --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > Hi Gareth, > > Here are two sucessful kitbashes I own (neither done by me - one needs to be > compled by me however): > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/4286285662/in/set-72157623241615384 > > & > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/4286285612/in/set-72157623241615384 > > Sounds like a fun project! > > Sean  > 1967 & 1969 Fastback Mustangs Rule! > > > > > ________________________________ > From: Walter Bayer II <bayerw2@...> > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Mon, April 11, 2011 11:14:05 PM > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] 2-4-4T Forney Pics sought??? > >   > Both links worked for me. Both to the same incredible page. > Walter > > > On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 8:17 PM, Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > >   > >Looks like my reader loused up the links again. > > > >Hopefully this will work > > > >http://tinyurl.com/3f6tfrj > > > >Don > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> > >To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > > > >Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 7:00 PM > >Subject: Re: [vintageHO] 2-4-4T Forney Pics sought??? > > > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "rcjge" <jgpedwards@...> > >> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > >> Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 5:42 PM > >> Subject: [vintageHO] 2-4-4T Forney Pics sought??? > >> > >> > >>> Hey Guys: > >>> > >>> I had a pic somewhere of a 2-4-4T Tank engine/Forney. It looked a little > >>> like an MDC Yard Hog, with a Forney four wheel tender like rear. I was > >>> planning on using a Mantua 0-4-0 chassis and a metal MDC Yard Hog > >>> Supersctucture etc to Kitbash something like it. > >>> > >>> It was a prototype pic and I can't find it on my computer or in my emails > >>> so, I was hoping if someone knew where there was a link to such a pic or > >>> had one could you email me the link or post it here, and if a pic email > >>> it > >>> directly to me. > >>> > >>> I'd really appreciate this guys. Btw, no I'm NOT talking about the MDC > >>> static model from years ago. This was a prototype as I said. > >>> > >>> Thanks one and all.... > >>> > >>> -Gareth > >>> Bradford > >> > >> How many do you want? > >> > >>http://www.google.com/images?hl=en&source=hp&biw=1148&bih=631&q=Forney+2-4-4-t&btnG=Search+Images&gbv=2&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=orhttp://tinyurl.com/3f6tfrjDonDon > >>n > >> > >>Dellmanndon.dellmann@...://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTractionOwnerhttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHOhttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery > >>y > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------------ > >> > >> Yahoo! Groups Links > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > -- > Regards, > Walter >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16495	From: jim heckard	Date: 4/15/2011
Subject: addition to vintage collection

I finally found an item on eBay that I have been searching for to add to my vintage collection. It is a new first version Hobbytown PA-1 2000 HP ACLO Kit O/B that has the removable roof unlike later models that had a one piece body with the roof as part of it. This first version came out about 1950.      To see it go to      380330846591    HO Scale Die Cast All Metal, Passenger Diesel Locomotive      When it arrives it will be interesting to see if it contains all the parts to complete the engine. Since it is a new kit I will not be building it but would be nice if it would all be there.                                 Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16496	From: Jim Waterman	Date: 4/16/2011
Subject: Re: addition to vintage collection

Jim Nice catch. Looks pretty pristine Jim

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16497	From: rcjge	Date: 4/16/2011
Subject: Re: addition to vintage collection

Hi Jim: Hope it's complete. I have one tucked away also in the original box, though I seem to remember mine being in a larger box... at one ime the HT Alco's were my favourite HO model engines. I have some I can't remember how many unbuildt in original boxes.... Never was a "B" unit was there? -Gareth --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > > > > > I finally found an item on eBay that I have been searching for to add to my vintage collection. It is a new first version Hobbytown PA-1 2000 HP ACLO Kit O/B that has the removable roof unlike later models that had a one piece body with the roof as part of it. This first version came out about 1950. > > To see it go to 380330846591 HO Scale Die Cast All Metal, Passenger Diesel Locomotive > > When it arrives it will be interesting to see if it contains all the parts to complete the engine. Since it is a new kit I will not be building it but would be nice if it would all be there. > > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16498	From: jim heckard	Date: 4/16/2011
Subject: Re: addition to vintage collection

Hi Gareth,        No B unit I know of.                        Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: rcjge To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, April 16, 2011 11:07 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: addition to vintage collection   Hi Jim: Hope it's complete. I have one tucked away also in the original box, though I seem to remember mine being in a larger box... at one ime the HT Alco's were my favourite HO model engines. I have some I can't remember how many unbuildt in original boxes.... Never was a "B" unit was there? -Gareth --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > > > > > I finally found an item on eBay that I have been searching for to add to my vintage collection. It is a new first version Hobbytown PA-1 2000 HP ACLO Kit O/B that has the removable roof unlike later models that had a one piece body with the roof as part of it. This first version came out about 1950. > > To see it go to 380330846591 HO Scale Die Cast All Metal, Passenger Diesel Locomotive > > When it arrives it will be interesting to see if it contains all the parts to complete the engine. Since it is a new kit I will not be building it but would be nice if it would all be there. > > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16499	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 4/16/2011
Subject: Varney Steam Wheel Treads

Group, I just dug out my Varney Economy Pacific locomotive, believed to be from the early postwar era. I moved June last year, and it has been stored since. Gave it a test-run, and noticed on the second drive axle (The geared one), one of the wheel treads is off center slightly. The wheel hub is fine, thankfully, but the brass tread is off just enough to make the locomotive an unstable runner. Any ideas? I do not want to replace parts if I can avoid it, nor do I want to brute force the tread on, unless the majority think I could safely do so. Any help is appreciated! -Steve Neubaum

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16500	From: jake_iv@juno.com	Date: 4/17/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Steam Wheel Treads

Hi Steve,    Obviously I cannot guarantee your results but I have overcome this problem on Varney, MDC, Bowser and AC Gilbert in the past by using a Sensi-Press (NWSL) with a appropriate socket wrench as an interface to press the tire back in place.  Back in the early post war we sometimes used paper as a insulator between the tire and the wheel and had to press the tire into place over the paper and then trim the excess paper from the face and back of the driver.    Another press should work just as well, (like the Dremel drill press used as a press).  I also remember my Uncle simply used a small machinists' hammer and a flat layout plate to do the same job.     Theoretically I see no reason why you couldn't use a NWSL "Puller" or "Puller II" to do the same thing by putting the "V" plate behind the driver and gently pressing against the tire instead of the axle with the thumb screw to realign the tire with the wheel. jake_iv Alabama Hill Country

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16501	From: Donald R. Staton	Date: 4/17/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Steam Wheel Treads

I have accomplished the same thing using smooth jawed pliers at the location that needed to be pressed further onto the wheel.  Don Staton in Va. ===================================================================================================== On 4/17/2011 8:28 AM, jake_iv@... wrote:   Hi Steve,    Obviously I cannot guarantee your results but I have overcome this problem on Varney, MDC, Bowser and AC Gilbert in the past by using a Sensi-Press (NWSL) with a appropriate socket wrench as an interface to press the tire back in place.  Back in the early post war we sometimes used paper as a insulator between the tire and the wheel and had to press the tire into place over the paper and then trim the excess paper from the face and back of the driver.    Another press should work just as well, (like the Dremel drill press used as a press).  I also remember my Uncle simply used a small machinists' hammer and a flat layout plate to do the same job.     Theoretically I see no reason why you couldn't use a NWSL "Puller" or "Puller II" to do the same thing by putting the "V" plate behind the driver and gently pressing against the tire instead of the axle with the thumb screw to realign the tire with the wheel. jake_iv Alabama Hill Country

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16502	From: dennyanspach	Date: 4/17/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Steam Wheel Treads

I presume from your description that the brass drive wheel tire has come askew on its cast zamac center.  The fix should be straight forward: 1) Remove wheel from axle (easily done with Varney- simply remove axle screw and gently pull the wheel off the self-quartering axle. 2) Place wheel face down or face up flat on firm, i.e. wood, but not hard (granite) surface such that the entire cast center and tire rims are well supported all around (may require drilling a hole in the wood to recess the boss), or the use of pasteboard shims.  3) With  very light  strokes from a padded light hammer  (I use a leather hammer),  press the tire flat back in place.  You might not even need this, if simply using fingers works well to begin with.  3) Alternatively, one can make a "sandwich" of wood into which a fully supported wheel can be placed, and the whole thing lightly pressed in a vise. 4) If the tire has been loose once, it may be liable to get loose again. Secure it with a drop or drops of ACC. 5) If the tire is on the insulated side, be very certain that in the process of putting it back into place, an inadvertent short may not have been created. 6) For the most part, the Varney drivers were well made and pretty bullet proof. Denny Denny S.  Anspach MD Sacramento

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16503	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 4/17/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Steam Wheel Treads

I would be leery of using the puller. You want to spread the force evenly over the whole rim and wheel. The puller concentrates it in a few area and I'm afraid it would break the wheel if there's any lead rot at all. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: <jake_iv@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 7:28 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Varney Steam Wheel Treads Hi Steve, Obviously I cannot guarantee your results but I have overcome this problem on Varney, MDC, Bowser and AC Gilbert in the past by using a Sensi-Press (NWSL) with a appropriate socket wrench as an interface to press the tire back in place. Back in the early post war we sometimes used paper as a insulator between the tire and the wheel and had to press the tire into place over the paper and then trim the excess paper from the face and back of the driver. Another press should work just as well, (like the Dremel drill press used as a press). I also remember my Uncle simply used a small machinists' hammer and a flat layout plate to do the same job. Theoretically I see no reason why you couldn't use a NWSL "Puller" or "Puller II" to do the same thing by putting the "V" plate behind the driver and gently pressing against the tire instead of the axle with the thumb screw to realign the tire with the wheel. jake_iv Alabama Hill Country

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16504	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 4/17/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Steam Wheel Treads

Following Don's warning............... I'd put the wheel and tire to be pressed on a slab of any available hard wood. Likely customized with a slot for the axle if still on the axle, and a slightly recessed cup about the same same size as the tire. Use a spade type of drill bit to make that. The recess will be not as deep as the tire is thick. If it's still on the axle, you need to make it sit on a thinned section of board, thick Masonite or stacked masonite, or a bit of metal plate. A table saw and a board of hardwood would be a great help. But you do need to know how to properly work with that tool and safely handle more than just cutting-off boards to use that machine. The method is that you will loosely assemble the tire-insulator-center/ wheel nest it into the recess. Then use another piece of board placed on top of the that to gently and firmly tap the assembly together. Use lots of small hits upon that top board and check frequently. The forces will be much better spread out that way and you will be unlikely to fracture the casting in the process. I'd prefer to go to the Local Menards where I know I can get a small board of Oak or Maple for a couple of bucks. If you happen to have a bit of scrap and now age hardened 2x4 or other woods lying about or even some scrap Masonite, those will work. You're after any wood that won't let the parts be crushed into it. Likewise, if you have to pull an aged driver from an axle, I'd put an axle slot into some thin hardwood, place the axle set in the center of a vice that is spread-jawed, and tap the axle out with a pin punch that is smaller than the axle size. Or between a couple of scrap lengths of 2x4 under that slotted block/board with the axle set dangling at least an inch away from the benchtop. You'll have much better support over the area/surface of the casting in that way. The reason this is so unfocused is that you can use materials you have around you and each choice will make for differences. Another 'board' choice is a very tough, kitchen cutting board. Some of them are very tough plastics and relatively thin compared to a wood board. The local dollar stores have great ones that are very low cost and make great material to cut and use for flat fixtures and jigs. Choose one that's not laminated and seems tough and rigid. You might use a cheap clipboard for the same reason. Either will cost you $1-$2 in the local dollar stores. Best to ya, Mike Bauers Milwaukee, Wi On Apr 17, 2011, at 11:48 AM, Don Dellmann wrote: > I would be leery of using the puller. You want to spread the force > evenly > over the whole rim and wheel. The puller concentrates it in a few > area and > I'm afraid it would break the wheel if there's any lead rot at all. > > Don > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <jake_iv > Hi Steve, > > Obviously I cannot guarantee your results but I have overcome this > problem on Varney, MDC, Bowser and AC Gilbert in the past by using a > Sensi-Press (NWSL) with a appropriate socket wrench as an interface > to press > the tire back in place. Back in the early post war we sometimes > used paper > as a insulator between the tire and the wheel and had to press the > tire into > place over the paper and then trim the excess paper from the face > and back > of the driver. > > Another press should work just as well, (like the Dremel drill > press used > as a press). I also remember my Uncle simply used a small machinists' > hammer and a flat layout plate to do the same job. > > Theoretically I see no reason why you couldn't use a NWSL "Puller" > or > "Puller II" to do the same thing by putting the "V" plate behind the > driver > and gently pressing against the tire instead of the axle with the > thumb > screw to realign the tire with the wheel.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16505	From: jim heckard	Date: 4/17/2011
Subject: American Flyer / Mantua FY&P 4-4-0

Attachments : IMG_6972_1.JPG              Finally felt a little better and up to doing a few things to complete my American Flyer / Mantua FY&P ( Fifty Years of Progress ) 4-4-0. This engine was a co operative venture using Mantua's General and a special paint scheme provided by American Flyer to supposedly celebrate their years in business.These parts Sean N gave me. It should not take long to complete once I start to feel right. All the painting is done and I have all the parts.                                         Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 16506	From: Richard White	Date: 4/25/2011
Subject: Attaching photographs to posts

Hello- Would someone tell me how to accomplish this, please? Thanks- Richard White

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16507	From: jim heckard	Date: 4/25/2011
Subject: Pittman motor

What is the number of the large Pittman motor that was used in the Winton Allegheny and the Hobbytown E-7 units? It was normally used for O Gauge items. Was it DC 90 or 91 ?                             Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16508	From: jim heckard	Date: 4/25/2011
Subject: Re: Attaching photographs to posts

Hi Richard,       I'm not the best expert to explain this but I will tell you how I do it.   I bought a Canon digital camera. It came with a program that you install in your computer. Mine is called Zoom Browser EX. When installed you will get an icon on you computer screen for it.       You take your pictures with the camera and load them in the Zoom Browser EX program that you bring up on the screen. You can pick and choose what you want. Delete any you don't want to send. After you are sure you have what you want to send as an attachment you follow a sequence from the instruction booklet ( You learn it very quick) which will bring up an email with the pictures attached you want to send as part of it . Fill the Email with information and then list subject and address who to go to just like sending an email and send.       Sorry best I can do but it is not complicated for me to do. Remember these are attachments with an email. Not to put pictures in an album.                                                          Jim H ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard White To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, April 25, 2011 12:11 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Attaching photographs to posts   Hello- Would someone tell me how to accomplish this, please? Thanks- Richard White

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16509	From: Glenn	Date: 4/25/2011
Subject: Re: Pittman motor

As  I remember them, the DC-90 was sort of squared off on the front end, like the DC-70—and the DC-91 had a slope on the bottom like the DC-71.  I think the Hobbytown PA I got had a DC-91—a friend was looiing for one of them to go in a PFM O Scale loco—I think the Hobbytown version had the brush plate inverted.  gj   From: jim heckard Sent: Monday, April 25, 2011 10:09 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Pittman motor           What is the number of the large Pittman motor that was used in the Winton Allegheny and the Hobbytown E-7 units? It was normally used for O Gauge items. Was it DC 90 or 91 ?                             Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16510	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 4/25/2011
Subject: Re: Attaching photographs to posts

----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard White" <toytrain13@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, April 25, 2011 11:11 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Attaching photographs to posts > Hello- Would someone tell me how to accomplish this, please? Thanks- > Richard White > It really depends on how you're reading and writing your mail. I use outlook express, when I'm composing the message I just click on the the little paper clip icon up on the toolbar that opens a window to browse my computer for the picture I want, then highlight it, click the " attach" button in the popup window and I'm done. If you're doing it online, there should be an "attach file" link somewhere that does the same thing. I'm assuming other mail readers work in a similar fashion. The only thing I do insist on is that any attachments be in .jpg format only. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16511	From: Richard White	Date: 4/25/2011
Subject: Re: Attaching photographs to posts

Jim H. and Don D.- I should have been more explicit in my post- I am talking about posts to our Vintage HO site. Cheers- Richard White

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16512	From: jake_iv@juno.com	Date: 4/25/2011
Subject: Re: Pittman motor

Your friend might want to check with Bowser.  Bowser bought the Pittman line of motors for model railroading several years ago. jake_iv Alabama Hill Country

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16513	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 4/25/2011
Subject: Re: Attaching photographs to posts

----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard White" <toytrain13@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, April 25, 2011 8:45 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Attaching photographs to posts > Jim H. and Don D.- I should have been more explicit in my post- I am > talking about posts to our Vintage HO site. Cheers- Richard White > I was referring to attaching pictures to an email which is what I thought you were doing. As far as actually putting them on the website as an album, that's not hard either. Assuming the pictures are already .jpg format on your hard drive...... Go to the home page http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ On the left side of the page click on "photos" Upper Right hand corner, under the search bar you should see " ADD PHOTO/CREATE ALBUM" Click on "create album" You will be prompted to create a name for your album, and a brief description. Also choose whether anyone can add to it or just you or the moderators. It doesn't make a lot of difference. Click "next" and you'll get the page that has a "select files" button. Clicking that will open a window to browse your computer for the photo you want. You can click the select files button again to add another, etc. etc. (as a practical matter it's probably best not to try to add more than 8 or 10 pictures in one batch). Once you've selected the pictures to upload, click "upload". When you're done, you can go into that album and click on the individual picture, then "edit" at the top of the page to change the name, add more descriptive comments, delete photos you decided you didn't want after all, etc. etc. To add more photos to an existing album, go into that album, and this time click on "add photos" in the upper right hand corner, and continue on the same way as above. I hope this is of help. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16514	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 4/25/2011
Subject: Re: Attaching photographs to posts

I use either Gmail or Outlook (not Outlook Express), and BOTH work the same as Don described it. On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 7:20 PM, Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote:   ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard White" <toytrain13@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, April 25, 2011 11:11 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Attaching photographs to posts > Hello- Would someone tell me how to accomplish this, please? Thanks- > Richard White > It really depends on how you're reading and writing your mail. I use outlook express, when I'm composing the message I just click on the the little paper clip icon up on the toolbar that opens a window to browse my computer for the picture I want, then highlight it, click the " attach" button in the popup window and I'm done. If you're doing it online, there should be an "attach file" link somewhere that does the same thing. I'm assuming other mail readers work in a similar fashion. The only thing I do insist on is that any attachments be in .jpg format only. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery -- Regards, Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16515	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 4/26/2011
Subject: Re: Pittman motor

This may be of help? http://www.bowser-trains.com/hoother/motors.pdf Doesn't list the 90 or 91 though. I may have a catalog page that's older, if I do I'll scan it at work today. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, April 25, 2011 12:09 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Pittman motor What is the number of the large Pittman motor that was used in the Winton Allegheny and the Hobbytown E-7 units? It was normally used for O Gauge items. Was it DC 90 or 91 ? Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16516	From: oljoe	Date: 4/26/2011
Subject: Re: Pittman motor

according to: 1957 "Catalog of Model Railroads" HOBBYTOWN: The E-7 Passenger Diesel came with a DC-91 motor. It was 12 wheel drive. Also made was a DC-91 F-7 chassis for the Athearn/Globe bodies 8 wheel drive. An Alco 2000 DC-91, 12 wheel drive was offered. The DC-90 was generally offered with 8 wheel drives except as noted above. The Alco switcher was also offered with 8 wheel drive and a DC-71 motor The DC-91 and the DC-90 motors are both big boys. Little in the way of extra room was available between the side of the motor and the loco cab. Curiously none of the Hobbytown offerings used any but a single shafted motor but instead used a universal coupling to power the "other" truck. They could easily be described as stump pullers. I recall rewiring a Pennline GG-1 so it would run in the opposite direction. The Hobbytown F-7 pulled the protesting GG-1 backwards down the track. But then the GG-1 "only" had 1 "little" DC-71 in it. I have no doubt that a DC-90 equipped F-7 would have also shattered the dignity of that GG-1. Joe O'Loughlin

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16517	From: dennyanspach	Date: 4/26/2011
Subject: Re: Pittman motor

The larger motor in the Winton seems to be always identified as a DC80, and while the one used by  Hobbytown was a DC90. Both were used by O-gaugers, but the 90 was distinctly larger than the 80. Denny Denny S.  Anspach MD Sacramento

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16518	From: Richard White	Date: 4/26/2011
Subject: Red Ball rotary snowplow

Attachments : Red Ball Snowplow A.jpg Thanks Walter, Jim and Don- Now I think I have solved the attachment problem. So now I've attached a photo (from HOSeeker) of the Red Ball rotary snowplow. I'd still like to have ideas from the forum membership as to the prototype- if there is one- for this snowplow. Regards- Richard White

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 16519	From: cwrailman	Date: 4/29/2011
Subject: Pleased to make your acquaintance

WOW!! I've spent about a half hour roaming around this board and was rather excited(not a word I use often by the way) to find so much information and see so many others who have an appreciation for vintage craftsman kits. Much of my time on the board after I joined was spent reading Peter Abel's Ambroid Story. Fascinating to say the least. I am sure I'll read the LaBelle story as well because I visited the original facility several times. My personal collection is over 900 craftsman kits of all manufactures and era's. Maybe about half are rolling stock. The earliest I have are three Earl Francis kits which were manufactured in Chicago. I am originally from a suburb of Chicago so I was pleased when I received those kits from Paul Matushek. Some of the latest rolling stock kits in my collection are Westwood passenger cars. Years ago I coined a phrase. While we had "arm chair model railroaders" and "model railroaders" I coined the phrase "Accumulators". That is what I call those of us who have much more than we can ever build and can't stop buying more. Maybe some day we'll have our own reality show. In addition to the unbuilt collection of kits I have built over 130 craftsman kits including both rolling stock as well as structures and done a lot of scratch building. You can check out some of my work at: http://www.facebook.com/pages/CWRailman/124301240959518 http://members.cox.net/dsurufka/Tool_Shed1.htm http://members.cox.net/cwrailman/Hotel_Hiser1.htm I've been around for quite a while. I am a Moderator on the Repower and Regear board and an early member of the Fine Scale Miniatures board. Due to business commitments I become scarce when I am busy but other times I am quite active in these boards when I am not in the rebuild shops. I've already passed the link to this board out to a few other like minded individuals who may join in. I'm looking forward to reading all the posts since day one and learning about your commitment to building these fine craftsman kits. Now back to the shops, Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16520	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 4/29/2011
Subject: Re: Pleased to make your acquaintance

Welcome aboard. We're glad to have you with us, we hope you enjoy the ride. You mention the original Labelle factory, was that when they were in Oconomowoc? Can't remember the owner's name, but I do recall he was a member of our church. My only similar memory was being shown around the old Walthers building on Water St. by Bill himself. Quite a thrill for a 14 year old. :-) Anyway, glad to have you with us. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "cwrailman" <cwrailman@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, April 29, 2011 5:00 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Pleased to make your acquaintance > WOW!! I've spent about a half hour roaming around this board and was > rather excited(not a word I use often by the way) to find so much > information and see so many others who have an appreciation for vintage > craftsman kits. Much of my time on the board after I joined was spent > reading Peter Abel's Ambroid Story. Fascinating to say the least. I am > sure I'll read the LaBelle story as well because I visited the original > facility several times. > > My personal collection is over 900 craftsman kits of all manufactures and > era's. Maybe about half are rolling stock. The earliest I have are three > Earl Francis kits which were manufactured in Chicago. I am originally > from a suburb of Chicago so I was pleased when I received those kits from > Paul Matushek. Some of the latest rolling stock kits in my collection are > Westwood passenger cars. Years ago I coined a phrase. While we had "arm > chair model railroaders" and "model railroaders" I coined the phrase > "Accumulators". That is what I call those of us who have much more than > we can ever build and can't stop buying more. Maybe some day we'll have > our own reality show. > > In addition to the unbuilt collection of kits I have built over 130 > craftsman kits including both rolling stock as well as structures and done > a lot of scratch building. You can check out some of my work at: > > http://www.facebook.com/pages/CWRailman/124301240959518 > > http://members.cox.net/dsurufka/Tool_Shed1.htm > > http://members.cox.net/cwrailman/Hotel_Hiser1.htm > > > I've been around for quite a while. I am a Moderator on the Repower and > Regear board and an early member of the Fine Scale Miniatures board. Due > to business commitments I become scarce when I am busy but other times I > am quite active in these boards when I am not in the rebuild shops. > > I've already passed the link to this board out to a few other like minded > individuals who may join in. > > I'm looking forward to reading all the posts since day one and learning > about your commitment to building these fine craftsman kits. > > Now back to the shops, > Denny > Janitor in Training > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16521	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 4/30/2011
Subject: Re: Pleased to make your acquaintance

Pleased to meet you too Denny! Like Do said; "Welcome aboard!" Sean Sent from my iPhone On Apr 29, 2011, at 6:00 PM, "cwrailman" <cwrailman@...> wrote:   WOW!! I've spent about a half hour roaming around this board and was rather excited(not a word I use often by the way) to find so much information and see so many others who have an appreciation for vintage craftsman kits. Much of my time on the board after I joined was spent reading Peter Abel's Ambroid Story. Fascinating to say the least. I am sure I'll read the LaBelle story as well because I visited the original facility several times. My personal collection is over 900 craftsman kits of all manufactures and era's. Maybe about half are rolling stock. The earliest I have are three Earl Francis kits which were manufactured in Chicago. I am originally from a suburb of Chicago so I was pleased when I received those kits from Paul Matushek. Some of the latest rolling stock kits in my collection are Westwood passenger cars. Years ago I coined a phrase. While we had "arm chair model railroaders" and "model railroaders" I coined the phrase "Accumulators". That is what I call those of us who have much more than we can ever build and can't stop buying more. Maybe some day we'll have our own reality show. In addition to the unbuilt collection of kits I have built over 130 craftsman kits including both rolling stock as well as structures and done a lot of scratch building. You can check out some of my work at: http://www.facebook.com/pages/CWRailman/124301240959518 http://members.cox.net/dsurufka/Tool_Shed1.htm http://members.cox.net/cwrailman/Hotel_Hiser1.htm I've been around for quite a while. I am a Moderator on the Repower and Regear board and an early member of the Fine Scale Miniatures board. Due to business commitments I become scarce when I am busy but other times I am quite active in these boards when I am not in the rebuild shops. I've already passed the link to this board out to a few other like minded individuals who may join in. I'm looking forward to reading all the posts since day one and learning about your commitment to building these fine craftsman kits. Now back to the shops, Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16522	From: Jim Waterman	Date: 4/30/2011
Subject: Re: Pleased to make your acquaintance

Denny Impressive collection, and impressive skills you have in 'bringing them back from the dead'. Jim Waterman

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16523	From: madchemep2@aol.com	Date: 4/30/2011
Subject: Re: Pleased to make your acquaintance

Welcome Denny: I loved the intro to the Hotel Hiser article. It sounds like an old pulp crime fiction story. I really admire your models. They look like they have a lot of time invested in them. I don't get into the modeling as much as I would like. However, I can identify with "Armchair Accumulator". Regards, Al Campbell

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16524	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 4/30/2011
Subject: Re: Pleased to make your acquaintance

Love the Hiser Hotel build sequence Denny!   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: cwrailman <cwrailman@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, April 29, 2011 6:00:47 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Pleased to make your acquaintance   WOW!! I've spent about a half hour roaming around this board and was rather excited(not a word I use often by the way) to find so much information and see so many others who have an appreciation for vintage craftsman kits. Much of my time on the board after I joined was spent reading Peter Abel's Ambroid Story. Fascinating to say the least. I am sure I'll read the LaBelle story as well because I visited the original facility several times. My personal collection is over 900 craftsman kits of all manufactures and era's. Maybe about half are rolling stock. The earliest I have are three Earl Francis kits which were manufactured in Chicago. I am originally from a suburb of Chicago so I was pleased when I received those kits from Paul Matushek. Some of the latest rolling stock kits in my collection are Westwood passenger cars. Years ago I coined a phrase. While we had "arm chair model railroaders" and "model railroaders" I coined the phrase "Accumulators". That is what I call those of us who have much more than we can ever build and can't stop buying more. Maybe some day we'll have our own reality show. In addition to the unbuilt collection of kits I have built over 130 craftsman kits including both rolling stock as well as structures and done a lot of scratch building. You can check out some of my work at: http://www.facebook.com/pages/CWRailman/124301240959518 http://members.cox.net/dsurufka/Tool_Shed1.htm http://members.cox.net/cwrailman/Hotel_Hiser1.htm I've been around for quite a while. I am a Moderator on the Repower and Regear board and an early member of the Fine Scale Miniatures board. Due to business commitments I become scarce when I am busy but other times I am quite active in these boards when I am not in the rebuild shops. I've already passed the link to this board out to a few other like minded individuals who may join in. I'm looking forward to reading all the posts since day one and learning about your commitment to building these fine craftsman kits. Now back to the shops, Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16525	From: cwrailman	Date: 4/30/2011
Subject: Re: Pleased to make your acquaintance

Yes Don, I am speaking of the original LaBelle "factory" in Oconomowoc! I am using the term factory rather loosely as I recall it wasn't much more than a very large garage type structure with wood working machinery. I was there when they were in season meaning they were building cabinets which I believe was their main industry. The guy who met us at the door said they did the LaBelle kits in their off season. My father-in-law who insisted on finding the place was a cabinet maker and he and the guy had a long conversation about wood working techniques but we were not allowed to walk around inside. In fact as I recall they did not have a sign outside saying Labelle and we drove up and down the road several times before we took a chance and stopped. I believe he told us that while the kits were manufactured at that location the actual packing of the kits was done somewhere in town whatever that meant. That was around 1976 or 77 and I have slept a few times since then. Kicking back, Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > Welcome aboard. We're glad to have you with us, we hope you enjoy the ride. > > You mention the original Labelle factory, was that when they were in > Oconomowoc? Can't remember the owner's name, but I do recall he was a > member of our church. My only similar memory was being shown around the old > Walthers building on Water St. by Bill himself. Quite a thrill for a 14 > year old. :-) > > Anyway, glad to have you with us. > > Don > > Don Dellmann > don.dellmann@... > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ > http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction > Owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "cwrailman" <cwrailman@...> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, April 29, 2011 5:00 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Pleased to make your acquaintance > > > > WOW!! I've spent about a half hour roaming around this board and was > > rather excited(not a word I use often by the way) to find so much > > information and see so many others who have an appreciation for vintage > > craftsman kits. Much of my time on the board after I joined was spent > > reading Peter Abel's Ambroid Story. Fascinating to say the least. I am > > sure I'll read the LaBelle story as well because I visited the original > > facility several times. > > > > My personal collection is over 900 craftsman kits of all manufactures and > > era's. Maybe about half are rolling stock. The earliest I have are three > > Earl Francis kits which were manufactured in Chicago. I am originally > > from a suburb of Chicago so I was pleased when I received those kits from > > Paul Matushek. Some of the latest rolling stock kits in my collection are > > Westwood passenger cars. Years ago I coined a phrase. While we had "arm > > chair model railroaders" and "model railroaders" I coined the phrase > > "Accumulators". That is what I call those of us who have much more than > > we can ever build and can't stop buying more. Maybe some day we'll have > > our own reality show. > > > > In addition to the unbuilt collection of kits I have built over 130 > > craftsman kits including both rolling stock as well as structures and done > > a lot of scratch building. You can check out some of my work at: > > > > http://www.facebook.com/pages/CWRailman/124301240959518 > > > > http://members.cox.net/dsurufka/Tool_Shed1.htm > > > > http://members.cox.net/cwrailman/Hotel_Hiser1.htm > > > > > > I've been around for quite a while. I am a Moderator on the Repower and > > Regear board and an early member of the Fine Scale Miniatures board. Due > > to business commitments I become scarce when I am busy but other times I > > am quite active in these boards when I am not in the rebuild shops. > > > > I've already passed the link to this board out to a few other like minded > > individuals who may join in. > > > > I'm looking forward to reading all the posts since day one and learning > > about your commitment to building these fine craftsman kits. > > > > Now back to the shops, > > Denny > > Janitor in Training > > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16526	From: Nelson	Date: 5/1/2011
Subject: Re: Pleased to make your acquaintance

Nice to see you here, Denny! I always enjoy seeing your excellent work over on your group, so I guess I'll be seeing even more of it. The Yardbird Classic Trains group is also a great resource, with many of the same members as this one; so much so that I often have to double-check that I'm posting to the right group. Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "cwrailman" <cwrailman@...> wrote: > > WOW!! I've spent about a half hour roaming around this board and was rather excited(not a word I use often by the way) to find so much information and see so many others who have an appreciation for vintage craftsman kits. Much of my time on the board after I joined was spent reading Peter Abel's Ambroid Story. Fascinating to say the least. I am sure I'll read the LaBelle story as well because I visited the original facility several times. > > My personal collection is over 900 craftsman kits of all manufactures and era's. Maybe about half are rolling stock. The earliest I have are three Earl Francis kits which were manufactured in Chicago. I am originally from a suburb of Chicago so I was pleased when I received those kits from Paul Matushek. Some of the latest rolling stock kits in my collection are Westwood passenger cars. Years ago I coined a phrase. While we had "arm chair model railroaders" and "model railroaders" I coined the phrase "Accumulators". That is what I call those of us who have much more than we can ever build and can't stop buying more. Maybe some day we'll have our own reality show. > > In addition to the unbuilt collection of kits I have built over 130 craftsman kits including both rolling stock as well as structures and done a lot of scratch building. You can check out some of my work at: > > http://www.facebook.com/pages/CWRailman/124301240959518 > > http://members.cox.net/dsurufka/Tool_Shed1.htm > > http://members.cox.net/cwrailman/Hotel_Hiser1.htm > > > I've been around for quite a while. I am a Moderator on the Repower and Regear board and an early member of the Fine Scale Miniatures board. Due to business commitments I become scarce when I am busy but other times I am quite active in these boards when I am not in the rebuild shops. > > I've already passed the link to this board out to a few other like minded individuals who may join in. > > I'm looking forward to reading all the posts since day one and learning about your commitment to building these fine craftsman kits. > > Now back to the shops, > Denny > Janitor in Training > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16527	From: Rick Steele	Date: 5/1/2011
Subject: Re: Pleased to make your acquaintance

Hi Denny, RE: LaBelle in Oconomowoc From what I have heard from the families, you probably met either Al Bobrakovsky or Fred Nienow who were the joint owners of LaBelle Woodworking. In the late 1970's it was probably Al alone as Fred had left the business. The kits were packed at Al's home by his children. I've had correspondence with them. In a case of progeny burnout, they don't seem very excited that LaBelle still exists but like to talk about the "Goodle Days". LaBelle was actually started (according to the county records) in about 1947. According to Al's Daughter in Law, LaBelle not only made cabinets but actually built a couple of homes in the area. The Construction venture wasn't too successful as, according to family, LaBelle was too picky to throw up a superstructure and roof and it actually cost them more money than they got out of it. This was happening a full 12 years before their first kit appeared in 1959. Somewhere I've posted a history of LaBelle as far as I know about it, which isn't a whole lot. All I know is that I'm still producing the kits and they're still selling. A testament, in my opinion, to their sound design, and the fact that LaBelle, always a niche player, has managed to outlast several larger producers in the wooden kit market. Rick Steele LaBelle Woodworking Co.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16528	From: cwrailman	Date: 5/1/2011
Subject: Re: Pleased to make your acquaintance

Rick, To date I have built 18 Standard gauge LaBelle cars. There are 47 unbuilt Standard gauge kits and 17 unbuilt HOn3 gauge kits in my collection. Some years ago I sold the O scale kits and may sell the HOn3 kits because I am no longer involved in narrow gauge. I firmly believe that when it comes to rolling stock LaBelle made the most significant mark on the hobby in the same way that Campbell kits did for the structures. I push new modelers toward your kits at every opportunity. In the near future I will post pictures of my built and bashed cars that came from LaBelle kits and maybe a few tips for building these cars especially the techniques I use for rounding the roofs on the passenger cars. Now if you really wanted to corner the market you might consider acquiring the Westwood line of kits in addition to your Labelle line. They are the only ones that I believe can compare and sorry to say in some respects, like the plastic castings for platforms, are better than Labelle in the 1880-1910 era. I'll also post some of those. By the way, at a Divisional NMRA meet in Milwaukee sometime around 1985-87 I did meet the second owner of LaBelle. In fact I corresponded with him and acquired several of the rubber bands for the drive and two extra sets of drive wheels for the power drive system from my Gas Electric. At the time he stated he did not have any complete drive assemblies. Now back to my nap, Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Rick Steele" <rntsteele@...> wrote: > > Hi Denny, > RE: LaBelle in Oconomowoc > > From what I have heard from the families, you probably met either Al Bobrakovsky or Fred Nienow who were the joint owners of LaBelle Woodworking. In the late 1970's it was probably Al alone as Fred had left the business. > > The kits were packed at Al's home by his children. I've had correspondence with them. In a case of progeny burnout, they don't seem very excited that LaBelle still exists but like to talk about the "Goodle Days". > > LaBelle was actually started (according to the county records) in about 1947. According to Al's Daughter in Law, LaBelle not only made cabinets but actually built a couple of homes in the area. The Construction venture wasn't too successful as, according to family, LaBelle was too picky to throw up a superstructure and roof and it actually cost them more money than they got out of it. This was happening a full 12 years before their first kit appeared in 1959. > > Somewhere I've posted a history of LaBelle as far as I know about it, which isn't a whole lot. > > All I know is that I'm still producing the kits and they're still selling. A testament, in my opinion, to their sound design, and the fact that LaBelle, always a niche player, has managed to outlast several larger producers in the wooden kit market. > > Rick Steele > LaBelle Woodworking Co. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16529	From: Rick Steele	Date: 5/2/2011
Subject: Re: Pleased to make your acquaintance

Yes, I saw your posts. Would you mind if I posted a gallery of your LaBelle work on our website? My hope is that it will give inspiration to those beginners to the hobby that they, too can achieve good results. Of course as technology changes, we have to do the same. I have begun laser cutting windows in the O Scale and the new HO kits. It actually allows us to make smaller kit runs and still make a profit at them. There will be more in the future. Rounding the roof ends IS the biggest bugaboo of our kits. Most people are afraid to try it, where I use a belt sander... About 7 years ago I wrote to the owner of Westwood kits offering to purchase the line and to rehabilitate the injection molds for steps, duckbill ends, windows, etc. I was willing to keep the name Westwood and to keep the kits in production. My efforts were not even met with the courtesy of a reply. If you know more about the owner than I do, then I am certainly open to a dialog. Just to let you know that we are thinking along the same lines. I'll write more to you backchannel as many will find this dialog between us boring and of little interest. Rick Steele LaBelle Woodworking Co.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16530	From: cwrailman	Date: 5/2/2011
Subject: Re: Pleased to make your acquaintance

Rick, I am going to take this conversation off line. I may have info to get you hooked up with Westwood. By the way you can use any of my images you wish. I can email you higher quality versions if you wish. Time to open the shops, Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Rick Steele" <rntsteele@...> wrote: > > Yes, I saw your posts. Would you mind if I posted a gallery of your LaBelle work on our website? My hope is that it will give inspiration to those beginners to the hobby that they, too can achieve good results. > > Of course as technology changes, we have to do the same. I have begun laser cutting windows in the O Scale and the new HO kits. It actually allows us to make smaller kit runs and still make a profit at them. There will be more in the future. > > Rounding the roof ends IS the biggest bugaboo of our kits. Most people are afraid to try it, where I use a belt sander... > > About 7 years ago I wrote to the owner of Westwood kits offering to purchase the line and to rehabilitate the injection molds for steps, duckbill ends, windows, etc. I was willing to keep the name Westwood and to keep the kits in production. My efforts were not even met with the courtesy of a reply. If you know more about the owner than I do, then I am certainly open to a dialog. > > Just to let you know that we are thinking along the same lines. > > I'll write more to you backchannel as many will find this dialog between us boring and of little interest. > > Rick Steele > LaBelle Woodworking Co. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16531	From: cwrailman	Date: 5/2/2011
Subject: Posted several plans for bashing LaBelle kits.

At the end of CWRailman's photo album: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/album/73154888/pic/list I have posted three plans for bashing LaBelle kits. There is the private car Sheanne. This plan is the result of getting an incomplete kit from a friend. I took an inventory of what parts there were left in the box and came up with the design. I came up with the name by using the first three letters of his last name and his wife's first name. The second plan is for a Drover style caboose. This is almost one of those tongue in cheek models but I believe once completed it will look better than the plans. Yes, there is a prototype for this car CB&Q had one but it was much longer. This design came about when I found enough parts left from two previous bashes. After gluing them up I had 17' of clerestory roof I had to do something with it so The third car demonstrates what can be done to shorten one of the LaBelle 80 foot passenger observations down to a more manageable 66 foot. Eighty foot cars look great if you have 36" curves but for those of us with less than that a 60-70 foot car looks better. Time to turn in, Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16532	From: cwrailman	Date: 5/3/2011
Subject: Re: AHM Brass

Nelson, I am a bit late in coming to this party but the AHM loco's you may have heard about being bad were probably the ones imported in the 1980's. These were a hybrid of brass and cast Zamic which was painted brass color. These were poorly manufactured and some disassembled themselves right before your eyes. I believe there were several models in that line. One was a ATSF Mikado and the other a Pacific. You definitely want to stay away from those. Based on the few early AHM brass loco's I have seen, I would say they were comparable to others being imported at the same time. While the PFM Crown models of the time ran pretty well right out of the box after lubrication, many other brass models of the time did need a bit of tweaking including breaking in, lapping of the gears and proper lubrication to smooth out the hitches in the get-a-long. Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Nelson" <greenbrier614@...> wrote: > > I had heard that AHM imported a brass steamer years ago, but I'd never seen it until this auction. > > http://tinyurl.com/3tvp5jz > > I read somewhere (maybe here) that they were like factory seconds that had problems like poorly soldered detail, etc. It's a darn nice looking model of a Milwaukee F-6, though. Anyone here ever own one? > > I also noticed AHM 'buy one, bet one' stickers on HOTCO boxes for New One locos in two separate auctions recently. > > http://tinyurl.com/42l7s5v > > I guess this was from the transition point from HOTCO to AHM, which would have been when... the late fifties? > > Nelson >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16533	From: jim heckard	Date: 5/3/2011
Subject: need part

I need part number 8187 Bell and Bracket for a Mantua General. Be glad to pay for it and shipping. Dan Bush / Yardbird Trains doesn't have it.                                                                   Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16534	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 5/3/2011
Subject: Re: need part

Hi Jim, I dug one out of my parts bin. You will need to repaint the bell. I know I have no extra whistles though.   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: jim heckard <jimheck@...> To: yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, May 3, 2011 7:29:25 PM Subject: [yardbirdtrains] need part           I need part number 8187 Bell and Bracket for a Mantua General. Be glad to pay for it and shipping. Dan Bush doesn't have it.                                                                   Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16535	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 5/3/2011
Subject: Layout News

Group, Tonight I got the first three track blocks wired on my layout. My layout is a little over 100 square feet, running in the living room and part of the dining room in my apartment. I have been trying to put serious time into this lately, as I have a friend who is almost 90 years old, a WWII Vet, who is maintenance at Camp Ma Ka Ja Wan, a Boy Scout camp I do computer support and some other volunteer work for. He is coming down this way June 7, and he is a railfan. He wants to see these antique model trains run. I am more than happy to oblige, though my computer shop I own, has also kept me busy. The layout uses toggles to control blocks. DPST toggles are usual block controls, as the 'up' position powers the block, as well as the green light on a signal. 'Down' leaves the block unpowered, but then powers the red bulb on the signal. I am using some old Lionel solenoids to power semaphore signals. Requires the use of a balancing arm to adujst the amount of travel in the solenoid, to the amount needed for the semaphore arm. Some blocks are being wired with DPDT toggles. With both rails insulated on the block, I can reverse the current without reversing the whole layout. This allows for switching moves. Powering the layout is a CMI Superblue, that only powers the trains. A Lionel 75 watt transformer powers accessories and building lights. Ran an Athearn F-7 Hi-F locomotive as the test run, then started running various units along the stretch of line that is powered. Great fun! Wish me luck, all, in having the layout presentable by June 7! -Steve Neubaum

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16536	From: Chris B	Date: 5/4/2011
Subject: Re: need part

Hi Jim, I may have an extra whistle, I've got six or seven General kits or engines in various states of completion, and a few parts engines, left over from my ACWRR modeling days.  Let me take a look today and I'll see if I can find one. No charge if I do, I'll mail it to  you and consider it a non-tax deductible donation to the JH Museum collection. Chris From: Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> To: yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com; vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, May 3, 2011 10:19:04 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: need part   Hi Jim, I dug one out of my parts bin. You will need to repaint the bell. I know I have no extra whistles though.   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: jim heckard <jimheck@...> To: yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, May 3, 2011 7:29:25 PM Subject: [yardbirdtrains] need part           I need part number 8187 Bell and Bracket for a Mantua General. Be glad to pay for it and shipping. Dan Bush doesn't have it.                                                                   Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16537	From: jim heckard	Date: 5/4/2011
Subject: Re: need part

 Hi Chris,        I don't need the whistle as I have that. It's the bell with bracket ( plastic ) that I need. I had one here but it decided to hide. Sean N is sending me one so I can finish off my American Flyer / Mantua FY&P Frontiersman 4-4-0. Have to get it together before I lose more small parts as it is just sitting on my workbench.        Thanks for the offer. Appreciate it. Waiting for my newest addition for my vintage collection to come. Small engine but a missing piece                                  Jim h     ----- Original Message ----- From: Chris B To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2011 7:07 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: need part   Hi Jim, I may have an extra whistle, I've got six or seven General kits or engines in various states of completion, and a few parts engines, left over from my ACWRR modeling days.  Let me take a look today and I'll see if I can find one. No charge if I do, I'll mail it to  you and consider it a non-tax deductible donation to the JH Museum collection. Chris From: Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> To: yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com; vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, May 3, 2011 10:19:04 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: need part   Hi Jim, I dug one out of my parts bin. You will need to repaint the bell. I know I have no extra whistles though.   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: jim heckard <jimheck@...> To: yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, May 3, 2011 7:29:25 PM Subject: [yardbirdtrains] need part           I need part number 8187 Bell and Bracket for a Mantua General. Be glad to pay for it and shipping. Dan Bush doesn't have it.                                                                   Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16538	From: Chris B	Date: 5/4/2011
Subject: Re: need part

Ok Jim, glad to hear it. I'm deep in the benchwork re-building project, I'll post an update later, but i do hope to run trains again this month! Chris B. From: Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> Sender: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 19:19:04 -0700 (PDT) To: <yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com>; <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> ReplyTo: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Re: need part   Hi Jim, I dug one out of my parts bin. You will need to repaint the bell. I know I have no extra whistles though.   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: jim heckard <jimheck@...> To: yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, May 3, 2011 7:29:25 PM Subject: [yardbirdtrains] need part           I need part number 8187 Bell and Bracket for a Mantua General. Be glad to pay for it and shipping. Dan Bush doesn't have it.                                                                   Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16539	From: dennyanspach	Date: 5/4/2011
Subject: Re: AHM Brass

One of the earliest AHM HO brass imports,1960, a PRR J1e 2-10-4 is a superb model locomotive. Its chassis rolls with Rolls-Royce smoothness and solidity, and the locomotive and tender bodies are very accurate as to scale, substantial in construction, and are very neatly soldered. @$59.50.It has a neatly cast zamac ashpan fastened to the chassis- a very important and unusual  visual modeling feature.  Detailing is accurate, although incomplete, and cast details are crude-  detracting features that, with skill, are easily rectified.  When they are, it is still a model that will stand up to the very best of current brass productions, and beat most of them.  The Japanese modeling shop that fabricated the locomotives, "The HO Company" remains a mystery, at least to me. AHM imported the same model again in 1966, but this later production is identified as being made by KTM.  Bob Hundman featured these particular models in MAINLINE MODELER about ten years ago as a particularly "Undervalued Brass Model".  The AHM HO brass MILWAUKEE ROAD Baltic F6e 4-6-4s of 1967 (KMT or KTM?) suffer from a fatal flaw:  The fabricators of the models mis-read the drawings, and applied the prominent  large bolted feedwater heater cover on the top surface of the boiler lagging forward rather than depressed under the lagging.  For most of those interested in scale accuracy, at least in the larger details, this has long been a deal breaker, if only because it is a flaw very, very difficult to cure.  A second  injury suffered by the AHM Baltics was that they were produced and marketed at the same time that PFM United (and Ashahi-Atlas) came out with their more accurate brass version of the same locomotive, which PFM eventually imported a total 1340. This unusually large number of imports of a single model,  when added to the unknown number that AHM imported, over-saturated the market big time for these Milwaukee models at the time,  and they still do.  Both the AHM and PFM models seem to sell for an average of $200-$350, pretty low. Bernie Paul at AHM was a high volume low price importer seldom concerned with scale accuracy, nor quality to be expected beyond the price points that he wanted to establish. However, either randomly, or by design, he could at times import some pretty nice stuff. Denny Denny S.  Anspach MD Sacramento

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16540	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 5/4/2011
Subject: Re: AHM Brass

If I may make one correction to the article below, the PFM model of the Milwaukee Baltic was an F-6a. I believe the AHM model was an F-6 (there's a difference in the running boards, one has a "step" along the side, the other is straight). I would love to get my hands on either one (I had a PFM in my younger days when I had money {read "single"} <G>) Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "dennyanspach" <danspach@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2011 12:33 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: AHM Brass One of the earliest AHM HO brass imports,1960, a PRR J1e 2-10-4 is a superb model locomotive. Its chassis rolls with Rolls-Royce smoothness and solidity, and the locomotive and tender bodies are very accurate as to scale, substantial in construction, and are very neatly soldered. @$59.50.It has a neatly cast zamac ashpan fastened to the chassis- a very important and unusual visual modeling feature. Detailing is accurate, although incomplete, and cast details are crude- detracting features that, with skill, are easily rectified. When they are, it is still a model that will stand up to the very best of current brass productions, and beat most of them. The Japanese modeling shop that fabricated the locomotives, "The HO Company" remains a mystery, at least to me. AHM imported the same model again in 1966, but this later production is identified as being made by KTM. Bob Hundman featured these particular models in MAINLINE MODELER about ten years ago as a particularly "Undervalued Brass Model". The AHM HO brass MILWAUKEE ROAD Baltic F6e 4-6-4s of 1967 (KMT or KTM?) suffer from a fatal flaw: The fabricators of the models mis-read the drawings, and applied the prominent large bolted feedwater heater cover on the top surface of the boiler lagging forward rather than depressed under the lagging. For most of those interested in scale accuracy, at least in the larger details, this has long been a deal breaker, if only because it is a flaw very, very difficult to cure. A second injury suffered by the AHM Baltics was that they were produced and marketed at the same time that PFM United (and Ashahi-Atlas) came out with their more accurate brass version of the same locomotive, which PFM eventually imported a total 1340. This unusually large number of imports of a single model, when added to the unknown number that AHM imported, over-saturated the market big time for these Milwaukee models at the time, and they still do. Both the AHM and PFM models seem to sell for an average of $200-$350, pretty low. Bernie Paul at AHM was a high volume low price importer seldom concerned with scale accuracy, nor quality to be expected beyond the price points that he wanted to establish. However, either randomly, or by design, he could at times import some pretty nice stuff. Denny Denny S. Anspach MD Sacramento

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16541	From: docdenny34	Date: 5/4/2011
Subject: Re: AHM Brass

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > If I may make one correction to the article below, the PFM model of the > Milwaukee Baltic was an F-6a. I believe the AHM model was an F-6 (there's > a difference in the running boards, one has a "step" along the side, the > other is straight). H-mmm. Are you certain, Don? Both the PFM and AHM models are listed specifically as F6a's, not F6s (I am aware of the difference, but do not have the AHM model at hand). To my knowledge, the only true F6 HO models produced with the stepped boards were 1) The Taylor Baltic of 1936-41, 2) a very low-volume mid-50's PFM import, and 3) PSC's last brass production of these 4-6-4s about ten years ago. > > I would love to get my hands on either one (I had a PFM in my younger days > when I had money {read "single"} <G>) Keep your eyes peeled. Both locomotives come up regularly on eBay, and many that are poorly painted, poorly photographed, poorly presented or come up on the heels of another locomotive whose sale has exhausted the buyers, are eventually sold for relative peanuts. > > Don > > Don Dellmann > don.dellmann@... > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ > http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction > Owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "dennyanspach" <danspach@...> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2011 12:33 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: AHM Brass > > > One of the earliest AHM HO brass imports,1960, a PRR J1e 2-10-4 is a superb > model locomotive. Its chassis rolls with Rolls-Royce smoothness and > solidity, and the locomotive and tender bodies are very accurate as to > scale, substantial in construction, and are very neatly soldered. @$59.50.It > has a neatly cast zamac ashpan fastened to the chassis- a very important and > unusual visual modeling feature. Detailing is accurate, although > incomplete, and cast details are crude- detracting features that, with > skill, are easily rectified. When they are, it is still a model that will > stand up to the very best of current brass productions, and beat most of > them. > > The Japanese modeling shop that fabricated the locomotives, "The HO Company" > remains a mystery, at least to me. AHM imported the same model again in > 1966, but this later production is identified as being made by KTM. > > Bob Hundman featured these particular models in MAINLINE MODELER about ten > years ago as a particularly "Undervalued Brass Model". > > The AHM HO brass MILWAUKEE ROAD Baltic F6e 4-6-4s of 1967 (KMT or KTM?) > suffer from a fatal flaw: The fabricators of the models mis-read the > drawings, and applied the prominent large bolted feedwater heater cover on > the top surface of the boiler lagging forward rather than depressed under > the lagging. For most of those interested in scale accuracy, at least in > the larger details, this has long been a deal breaker, if only because it is > a flaw very, very difficult to cure. > > A second injury suffered by the AHM Baltics was that they were produced and > marketed at the same time that PFM United (and Ashahi-Atlas) came out with > their more accurate brass version of the same locomotive, which PFM > eventually imported a total 1340. This unusually large number of imports of > a single model, when added to the unknown number that AHM imported, > over-saturated the market big time for these Milwaukee models at the time, > and they still do. Both the AHM and PFM models seem to sell for an average > of $200-$350, pretty low. > > Bernie Paul at AHM was a high volume low price importer seldom concerned > with scale accuracy, nor quality to be expected beyond the price points that > he wanted to establish. However, either randomly, or by design, he could at > times import some pretty nice stuff. > > Denny > > Denny S. Anspach MD > Sacramento >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16542	From: Jim Waterman	Date: 5/4/2011
Subject: Re: AHM Brass

Speaking of AHM brass, I own one of the Milwaukee F-6's and can vouch that it was not a second, but rather a well made, good running loco with great detail. My father used to also sell the B&M Mountain that they imported, and it too was a good loco. I believe there were one or two more that were worth owning that were real brass, likely made by the same Japanese firms that produced for the other well known names at the time (PFM, Gem, Westside, Akane, etc) Jim Waterman

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16543	From: jim heckard	Date: 5/5/2011
Subject: New vintage collection addition

I added a new addition to my vintage collection. It is not the largest engine nor the rarest  but it is part of vintage HO history because of the Silvine name.. I bought this engine mainly because of the box it is in and because the engine is in great shape. If you go to item      400212607713     Vintage HO Silvine ( Japan ) B&O 0-4-0 Teakettle Loco      While this engine was later sold by Life Like and there are a lot out there I don't know to much about it when it was first sold under the Silvine name. Not much information about this company although I have seen train transformers and railroad accessories sold under the Silvine name. Any one happen to know the year these Silvine items sold ? I should be able to find some information from the box when the engine arrives like where Silvine was located.         I'm pretty sure this engine was made by New One Japan. The same company that made the items for Polk Aristo Craft and General Hobbies Corp / HOTCO. At one time I thought one of these companies sold this engine but have not found any link between them.      While a small addition to the collection any information will be useful about the history of the company and HO in general..                                            Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16544	From: cwrailman	Date: 5/5/2011
Subject: Bashing LaBelle passenger cars

I have just posted some images showing a step by step bash of a LaBelle 80 Observation car into a 66 foot car. You can see the process at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/album/1803827382/pic/list This bash was done and documented by my friend Jim Kubajak and the car runs on his Fall River Line in the year 1928. If you have any questions or comments please feel free to contact me on line or by email and I will do my best to answer them. I have also posted additional bashes and plans of bashes at the end of: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/album/73154888/pic/list Now back to the shops. Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16545	From: raul@wi.rr.com	Date: 5/5/2011
Subject: Re: New vintage collection addition

American Train and Track may also have sold them or one very simmilar. Ro9ger Aultman ---- jim heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: ============= I added a new addition to my vintage collection. It is not the largest engine nor the rarest but it is part of vintage HO history because of the Silvine name.. I bought this engine mainly because of the box it is in and because the engine is in great shape. If you go to item 400212607713 Vintage HO Silvine ( Japan ) B&O 0-4-0 Teakettle Loco While this engine was later sold by Life Like and there are a lot out there I don't know to much about it when it was first sold under the Silvine name. Not much information about this company although I have seen train transformers and railroad accessories sold under the Silvine name. Any one happen to know the year these Silvine items sold ? I should be able to find some information from the box when the engine arrives like where Silvine was located. I'm pretty sure this engine was made by New One Japan. The same company that made the items for Polk Aristo Craft and General Hobbies Corp / HOTCO. At one time I thought one of these companies sold this engine but have not found any link between them. While a small addition to the collection any information will be useful about the history of the company and HO in general.. Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16546	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 5/5/2011
Subject: Re: New vintage collection addition

The Silvine trolley became the Tyco Mantua 4 wheel Trolley in around 1960 or so. I have seen at advertised as Silvine as late as 1959. You can tell the later Tyco ones because the axles don't line up with the journal boxes in the sideframes (Mantua used their 4 wheel Plymouth CR-4 chassis). Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2011 3:48 PM Subject: [vintageHO] New vintage collection addition I added a new addition to my vintage collection. It is not the largest engine nor the rarest but it is part of vintage HO history because of the Silvine name.. I bought this engine mainly because of the box it is in and because the engine is in great shape. If you go to item 400212607713 Vintage HO Silvine ( Japan ) B&O 0-4-0 Teakettle Loco While this engine was later sold by Life Like and there are a lot out there I don't know to much about it when it was first sold under the Silvine name. Not much information about this company although I have seen train transformers and railroad accessories sold under the Silvine name. Any one happen to know the year these Silvine items sold ? I should be able to find some information from the box when the engine arrives like where Silvine was located. I'm pretty sure this engine was made by New One Japan. The same company that made the items for Polk Aristo Craft and General Hobbies Corp / HOTCO. At one time I thought one of these companies sold this engine but have not found any link between them. While a small addition to the collection any information will be useful about the history of the company and HO in general.. Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16547	From: Glenn	Date: 5/5/2011
Subject: Re: Bashing LaBelle passenger cars

Nice project. LaBelle makes good kits--I have built a bunch over the years. One thing I do when planning project like this is to "copy" the major parts on a copier--then do my trial and error work on the paper--gj -----Original Message----- From: cwrailman Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2011 4:26 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Bashing LaBelle passenger cars I have just posted some images showing a step by step bash of a LaBelle 80 Observation car into a 66 foot car. You can see the process at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/album/1803827382/pic/list This bash was done and documented by my friend Jim Kubajak and the car runs on his Fall River Line in the year 1928. If you have any questions or comments please feel free to contact me on line or by email and I will do my best to answer them. I have also posted additional bashes and plans of bashes at the end of: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/album/73154888/pic/list Now back to the shops. Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16548	From: Chris B	Date: 5/5/2011
Subject: Re: New vintage collection addition

Jim, I found this German page on Silvine via google Chris B http://www.modellbahnarchiv.de/Modelle/USA/Silvine/index.shtml Silvine Silvine in Baltimore, was an importer and distributor of model railway accessories in the United States. The products were sold under the brand 'Silvine' ode 'Silvine Models'. Small B-coupler of Silvine scale H0 Transformer of Silvine Silvine imported in the years 1950/60er a working trolley buses from Japan to the United States. The construction of the pantograph which is the early Eheim Trolley buses only. The Silvine trolley bus. Overhead line and road are not original. The bus is built in scale H0 and about 12-13 cm (4.75'') long. At the bottom it is 'Made in Japan' mark, the manufacturer is likely to Sakai . From: jim heckard <jimheck@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, May 5, 2011 4:48:24 PM Subject: [vintageHO] New vintage collection addition              I added a new addition to my vintage collection. It is not the largest engine nor the rarest  but it is part of vintage HO history because of the Silvine name.. I bought this engine mainly because of the box it is in and because the engine is in great shape. If you go to item      400212607713     Vintage HO Silvine ( Japan ) B&O 0-4-0 Teakettle Loco      While this engine was later sold by Life Like and there are a lot out there I don't know to much about it when it was first sold under the Silvine name. Not much information about this company although I have seen train transformers and railroad accessories sold under the Silvine name. Any one happen to know the year these Silvine items sold ? I should be able to find some information from the box when the engine arrives like where Silvine was located.         I'm pretty sure this engine was made by New One Japan. The same company that made the items for Polk Aristo Craft and General Hobbies Corp / HOTCO. At one time I thought one of these companies sold this engine but have not found any link between them.      While a small addition to the collection any information will be useful about the history of the company and HO in general..                                            Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16549	From: Chris B	Date: 5/5/2011
Subject: W&OD layout (benchwork rebuild) update

Attachments : OLD FRAMEWORK ON RIGHT IN LAYOUT ROOM NOW GONE.jpg OLD FRAMEWORK IN LAUNDRY NOW GONE.jpg NEW FRAMES IN LAUNDRY.jpg layout plan.jpg FIRST FOUR DONE, 38 TO GO....jpg Jim, I finally finalized my layout track plan for all four levels, but that also meant I had to tear down the temporary heavy wood framing on both sides of the wall between the layout room and the laundry room, and replace it with the final framework. It's based on a heavy multi-landscape timber X truss arrangement in the laundry room, that will support the levels holding the tracks on the hidden laundry side, but with  enough strength to support all 42 2x4s that will be sticking through the wall to support the four levels on that side, all sticking out into the room, four feet out at the widest point, without any legs! (4x6 timbers bolted to each other and to the wall studs and overhead joists) When the benchwork is all done, it all gets sheathed in finished luan plywood, the back wall and bottom of each shelf gets covered with thin sheet cork, the hardwood vintage truscale and tenshodo trackage goes down, and the unpainted brass roster gets to run over 300 ft of double track mainline and 4% grades from 32" above the floor to the top level at 66" above the floor! Chris B.  No plastic, no paint, all brass or diecast metal engines and cars, I'm building a DC powered time machine!

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 16550	From: jim heckard	Date: 5/6/2011
Subject: Re: New vintage collection addition

 Hi Chris,       Thanks for the information. To find out sold  in Baltimore and mostly likely made by Sakai is useful.                                                                                             Jim H             ----- Original Message ----- From: Chris B To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2011 10:00 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] New vintage collection addition   Jim, I found this German page on Silvine via google Chris B http://www.modellbahnarchiv.de/Modelle/USA/Silvine/index.shtml Silvine Silvine in Baltimore, was an importer and distributor of model railway accessories in the United States. The products were sold under the brand 'Silvine' ode 'Silvine Models'. Small B-coupler of Silvine scale H0 Transformer of Silvine Silvine imported in the years 1950/60er a working trolley buses from Japan to the United States. The construction of the pantograph which is the early Eheim Trolley buses only. The Silvine trolley bus. Overhead line and road are not original. The bus is built in scale H0 and about 12-13 cm (4.75'') long. At the bottom it is 'Made in Japan' mark, the manufacturer is likely to Sakai . From: jim heckard <jimheck@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, May 5, 2011 4:48:24 PM Subject: [vintageHO] New vintage collection addition              I added a new addition to my vintage collection. It is not the largest engine nor the rarest  but it is part of vintage HO history because of the Silvine name.. I bought this engine mainly because of the box it is in and because the engine is in great shape. If you go to item      400212607713     Vintage HO Silvine ( Japan ) B&O 0-4-0 Teakettle Loco      While this engine was later sold by Life Like and there are a lot out there I don't know to much about it when it was first sold under the Silvine name. Not much information about this company although I have seen train transformers and railroad accessories sold under the Silvine name. Any one happen to know the year these Silvine items sold ? I should be able to find some information from the box when the engine arrives like where Silvine was located.         I'm pretty sure this engine was made by New One Japan. The same company that made the items for Polk Aristo Craft and General Hobbies Corp / HOTCO. At one time I thought one of these companies sold this engine but have not found any link between them.      While a small addition to the collection any information will be useful about the history of the company and HO in general..                                            Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16551	From: jim heckard	Date: 5/6/2011
Subject: Re: W&OD layout (benchwork rebuild) update [10 Attachments]

Hi Chris,       Finally got a little time to look at the pictures of your layout. You originally said what you planned to do and from the looks of the pictures you have done just that. It will be unique but this hobby is about everyone doing there own thing while enjoying what they are doing. Nice job       It looks like you had some major work with some "heavier" lumber to build what you needed but it will be great when you get to watch those trains run around the entire layout. Are the plans you show done by Cad Cam.? You put a lot of planning and effort into it and can be pleased with the results. That finished luan plywood will set it off                                            Jim H ----- Original Message ----- From: Chris B To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Cc: bkmmrr@... ; dguillaudeu@... Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2011 10:31 PM Subject: [vintageHO] W&OD layout (benchwork rebuild) update [10 Attachments]   Jim, I finally finalized my layout track plan for all four levels, but that also meant I had to tear down the temporary heavy wood framing on both sides of the wall between the layout room and the laundry room, and replace it with the final framework. It's based on a heavy multi-landscape timber X truss arrangement in the laundry room, that will support the levels holding the tracks on the hidden laundry side, but with  enough strength to support all 42 2x4s that will be sticking through the wall to support the four levels on that side, all sticking out into the room, four feet out at the widest point, without any legs! (4x6 timbers bolted to each other and to the wall studs and overhead joists) When the benchwork is all done, it all gets sheathed in finished luan plywood, the back wall and bottom of each shelf gets covered with thin sheet cork, the hardwood vintage truscale and tenshodo trackage goes down, and the unpainted brass roster gets to run over 300 ft of double track mainline and 4% grades from 32" above the floor to the top level at 66" above the floor! Chris B.  No plastic, no paint, all brass or diecast metal engines and cars, I'm building a DC powered time machine!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16552	From: Chris B	Date: 5/6/2011
Subject: Re: W&OD layout (benchwork rebuild) update

Thanks Jim, it's coming along. I've got a closet full of tru scale track just waiting for the next phase...The plans were done with the free Atlas RTS track planning software, I can't say enough good about it, and the price makes it the best layout sw on the market. Chris B. From: "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> Sender: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Fri, 6 May 2011 10:13:02 -0400 To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> ReplyTo: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] W&OD layout (benchwork rebuild) update   Hi Chris,       Finally got a little time to look at the pictures of your layout. You originally said what you planned to do and from the looks of the pictures you have done just that. It will be unique but this hobby is about everyone doing there own thing while enjoying what they are doing. Nice job       It looks like you had some major work with some "heavier" lumber to build what you needed but it will be great when you get to watch those trains run around the entire layout. Are the plans you show done by Cad Cam.? You put a lot of planning and effort into it and can be pleased with the results. That finished luan plywood will set it off                                            Jim H ----- Original Message ----- From: Chris B To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Cc: bkmmrr@... ; dguillaudeu@... Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2011 10:31 PM Subject: [vintageHO] W&OD layout (benchwork rebuild) update [10 Attachments]   Jim, I finally finalized my layout track plan for all four levels, but that also meant I had to tear down the temporary heavy wood framing on both sides of the wall between the layout room and the laundry room, and replace it with the final framework. It's based on a heavy multi-landscape timber X truss arrangement in the laundry room, that will support the levels holding the tracks on the hidden laundry side, but with  enough strength to support all 42 2x4s that will be sticking through the wall to support the four levels on that side, all sticking out into the room, four feet out at the widest point, without any legs! (4x6 timbers bolted to each other and to the wall studs and overhead joists) When the benchwork is all done, it all gets sheathed in finished luan plywood, the back wall and bottom of each shelf gets covered with thin sheet cork, the hardwood vintage truscale and tenshodo trackage goes down, and the unpainted brass roster gets to run over 300 ft of double track mainline and 4% grades from 32" above the floor to the top level at 66" above the floor! Chris B.  No plastic, no paint, all brass or diecast metal engines and cars, I'm building a DC powered time machine!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16553	From: jim heckard	Date: 5/6/2011
Subject: American Flyer / Mantua FY&P 4-4-0

Attachments : IMG_6991_1.JPG     Sean N , All,         Wanted to pass along a picture of the nearly completed American Flyer / Mantua FY&P 4-4-0 Frontiersman (or was it a co op with TYCO not Mantua ?) made from parts that Sean N sent me. I repainted everything to try to match the original. I'm waiting for minor parts still needed ( bell/bracket, coupler and pocket, handrail and holders ( special Mantua Stanchions) and of course I must paint the yellow / orange line on the side of the walkways.        Engine runs good but needs some  tweaking. Cleaner wheels,  oil and iube parts and I have to file a little thickness off the one drawbar end to turn easier. All minor.         However I do have a problem that anyone can help with. This engine uses thin cardboard like stickers on the tender sides and  little ones  ( Franklin ) on the side of the cab. Unlike decals you can put on and move around to square up.  I doubt you will be able to do it with the stickers. Almost like a contact glue on then. Where you first put it might stay whether centered or straight. Does anyone have experience of ideas to get them on.                                                  Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 16554	From: Garry Spear	Date: 5/6/2011
Subject: Re: American Flyer / Mantua FY&P 4-4-0 [1 Attachment]

Jim, I use stamp tongs for items like this. Stamp tong are tweezers used for mounting stamps in stamp albums.  They are thin with smooth gripping surfaces, mine are 6" long and are easy to control.  Stamps are delicate, will not tolerate rough handling, and need to mounted accurately. My method. Garry Spear On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 1:21 PM, jim heckard <jimheck@...> wrote:   [Attachment(s) from jim heckard included below]     Sean N , All,         Wanted to pass along a picture of the nearly completed American Flyer / Mantua FY&P 4-4-0 Frontiersman (or was it a co op with TYCO not Mantua ?) made from parts that Sean N sent me. I repainted everything to try to match the original. I'm waiting for minor parts still needed ( bell/bracket, coupler and pocket, handrail and holders ( special Mantua Stanchions) and of course I must paint the yellow / orange line on the side of the walkways.        Engine runs good but needs some  tweaking. Cleaner wheels,  oil and iube parts and I have to file a little thickness off the one drawbar end to turn easier. All minor.         However I do have a problem that anyone can help with. This engine uses thin cardboard like stickers on the tender sides and  little ones  ( Franklin ) on the side of the cab. Unlike decals you can put on and move around to square up.  I doubt you will be able to do it with the stickers. Almost like a contact glue on then. Where you first put it might stay whether centered or straight. Does anyone have experience of ideas to get them on.                                                  Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16555	From: jim heckard	Date: 5/6/2011
Subject: Re: American Flyer / Mantua FY&P 4-4-0

Gary,        Sounds like a great idea. Thanks.                                              Jim H ----- Original Message ----- From: Garry Spear To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, May 06, 2011 1:53 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] American Flyer / Mantua FY&P 4-4-0   Jim, I use stamp tongs for items like this. Stamp tong are tweezers used for mounting stamps in stamp albums.  They are thin with smooth gripping surfaces, mine are 6" long and are easy to control.  Stamps are delicate, will not tolerate rough handling, and need to mounted accurately. My method. Garry Spear On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 1:21 PM, jim heckard <jimheck@...> wrote:   [Attachment(s) from jim heckard included below]     Sean N , All,         Wanted to pass along a picture of the nearly completed American Flyer / Mantua FY&P 4-4-0 Frontiersman (or was it a co op with TYCO not Mantua ?) made from parts that Sean N sent me. I repainted everything to try to match the original. I'm waiting for minor parts still needed ( bell/bracket, coupler and pocket, handrail and holders ( special Mantua Stanchions) and of course I must paint the yellow / orange line on the side of the walkways.        Engine runs good but needs some  tweaking. Cleaner wheels,  oil and iube parts and I have to file a little thickness off the one drawbar end to turn easier. All minor.         However I do have a problem that anyone can help with. This engine uses thin cardboard like stickers on the tender sides and  little ones  ( Franklin ) on the side of the cab. Unlike decals you can put on and move around to square up.  I doubt you will be able to do it with the stickers. Almost like a contact glue on then. Where you first put it might stay whether centered or straight. Does anyone have experience of ideas to get them on.                                                  Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16556	From: Chris B	Date: 5/6/2011
Subject: Re: American Flyer / Mantua FY&P 4-4-0 [1 Attachment]

Jim, you could try an old method we used to use on equipment restorations when a sticker was rectangular; you cut a piece of card stock to the exact size and shape of the final sticker; put a small dot of glue stick adhesive in the center of the back side; then lay the piece on its side and set the sticker in the appoximate correct position and press down in the center; with only that one dot of adhesive you can rotate it till it's. level or nudge it up and down or sideways till it's right...we would use a scrap of the same card stock with a pencil line that was drawn parallel to the sticker edge and equal to the distance from the edge of the sticker to one edge of the model; e.g., You put the long cut edge of the scrap along the bottom edge of the sticker, and mark a pencil mark where the scrap crosses the bottom edge of the tender, then just slide the scrap along the sticker to see if it's'the same distance along the whole bottom edge...adjust your stuck on sticker template till all your scraps and marks are equal on all four sides; then press the sticker template down firmly, and carefully apply low tack painter's tape aro_nd all four sides of the sticker template; You can overlap the corners, just make sure the tape edge lays perfectly straight with the sticker template edge; Then BOOM, take off the template, chk your final sticker one last time, peel off the backing; And starting along the long top edge, align the sticker with the opening made by the tape, press gently, check again, then press down evenly along the length, from top to bottom; Using: 2 rounded end dowels cut to size, a short one for left to right, and a long one for top to bottom; Peel off the tape and with patience and luck it's perfect! All it is is a one time crude version of the mask/jig they would use in production. Chris B From: "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> Sender: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Fri, 6 May 2011 13:21:35 -0400 To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> ReplyTo: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] American Flyer / Mantua FY&P 4-4-0 [1 Attachment]       Sean N , All,         Wanted to pass along a picture of the nearly completed American Flyer / Mantua FY&P 4-4-0 Frontiersman (or was it a co op with TYCO not Mantua ?) made from parts that Sean N sent me. I repainted everything to try to match the original. I'm waiting for minor parts still needed ( bell/bracket, coupler and pocket, handrail and holders ( special Mantua Stanchions) and of course I must paint the yellow / orange line on the side of the walkways.        Engine runs good but needs some  tweaking. Cleaner wheels,  oil and iube parts and I have to file a little thickness off the one drawbar end to turn easier. All minor.         However I do have a problem that anyone can help with. This engine uses thin cardboard like stickers on the tender sides and  little ones  ( Franklin ) on the side of the cab. Unlike decals you can put on and move around to square up.  I doubt you will be able to do it with the stickers. Almost like a contact glue on then. Where you first put it might stay whether centered or straight. Does anyone have experience of ideas to get them on.                                                  Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16557	From: Chris B	Date: 5/6/2011
Subject: Re: American Flyer / Mantua FY&P 4-4-0

Jim, stamp tongs might be great, but if the sticker is as big as I remember, they may be undersized; and when collectors use them to position stamp hinges, IIRC, they're tips aren't in contact with any active adhesive. But if you can remove the backin sheet in sections, and use the tongs to hold the sticker in areas where the backing sheet remains until you've placed and adhered most of the sticker, they'd. probably be the perfect tool for the job!! Chris B. From: "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> Sender: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Fri, 6 May 2011 14:03:57 -0400 To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> ReplyTo: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] American Flyer / Mantua FY&P 4-4-0   Gary,        Sounds like a great idea. Thanks.                                              Jim H ----- Original Message ----- From: Garry Spear To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, May 06, 2011 1:53 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] American Flyer / Mantua FY&P 4-4-0   Jim, I use stamp tongs for items like this. Stamp tong are tweezers used for mounting stamps in stamp albums.  They are thin with smooth gripping surfaces, mine are 6" long and are easy to control.  Stamps are delicate, will not tolerate rough handling, and need to mounted accurately. My method. Garry Spear On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 1:21 PM, jim heckard <jimheck@...> wrote:   [Attachment(s) from jim heckard included below]     Sean N , All,         Wanted to pass along a picture of the nearly completed American Flyer / Mantua FY&P 4-4-0 Frontiersman (or was it a co op with TYCO not Mantua ?) made from parts that Sean N sent me. I repainted everything to try to match the original. I'm waiting for minor parts still needed ( bell/bracket, coupler and pocket, handrail and holders ( special Mantua Stanchions) and of course I must paint the yellow / orange line on the side of the walkways.        Engine runs good but needs some  tweaking. Cleaner wheels,  oil and iube parts and I have to file a little thickness off the one drawbar end to turn easier. All minor.         However I do have a problem that anyone can help with. This engine uses thin cardboard like stickers on the tender sides and  little ones  ( Franklin ) on the side of the cab. Unlike decals you can put on and move around to square up.  I doubt you will be able to do it with the stickers. Almost like a contact glue on then. Where you first put it might stay whether centered or straight. Does anyone have experience of ideas to get them on.                                                  Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16558	From: jim heckard	Date: 5/6/2011
Subject: Re: American Flyer / Mantua FY&P 4-4-0

Hi Chris,        Will keep this idea too. Will try them on something else first to see what would be best. Those little Franklin stickers fit in a slot on the cab side but that slot is a little larger then the sticker. Going to be fun to work in that area.     ----- Original Message ----- From: Chris B To: Vint Ho Sent: Friday, May 06, 2011 2:05 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] American Flyer / Mantua FY&P 4-4-0   Jim, you could try an old method we used to use on equipment restorations when a sticker was rectangular; you cut a piece of card stock to the exact size and shape of the final sticker; put a small dot of glue stick adhesive in the center of the back side; then lay the piece on its side and set the sticker in the appoximate correct position and press down in the center; with only that one dot of adhesive you can rotate it till it's. level or nudge it up and down or sideways till it's right...we would use a scrap of the same card stock with a pencil line that was drawn parallel to the sticker edge and equal to the distance from the edge of the sticker to one edge of the model; e.g., You put the long cut edge of the scrap along the bottom edge of the sticker, and mark a pencil mark where the scrap crosses the bottom edge of the tender, then just slide the scrap along the sticker to see if it's'the same distance along the whole bottom edge...adjust your stuck on sticker template till all your scraps and marks are equal on all four sides; then press the sticker template down firmly, and carefully apply low tack painter's tape aro_nd all four sides of the sticker template; You can overlap the corners, just make sure the tape edge lays perfectly straight with the sticker template edge; Then BOOM, take off the template, chk your final sticker one last time, peel off the backing; And starting along the long top edge, align the sticker with the opening made by the tape, press gently, check again, then press down evenly along the length, from top to bottom; Using: 2 rounded end dowels cut to size, a short one for left to right, and a long one for top to bottom; Peel off the tape and with patience and luck it's perfect! All it is is a one time crude version of the mask/jig they would use in production. Chris B From: "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> Sender: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Fri, 6 May 2011 13:21:35 -0400 To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> ReplyTo: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] American Flyer / Mantua FY&P 4-4-0 [1 Attachment]       Sean N , All,         Wanted to pass along a picture of the nearly completed American Flyer / Mantua FY&P 4-4-0 Frontiersman (or was it a co op with TYCO not Mantua ?) made from parts that Sean N sent me. I repainted everything to try to match the original. I'm waiting for minor parts still needed ( bell/bracket, coupler and pocket, handrail and holders ( special Mantua Stanchions) and of course I must paint the yellow / orange line on the side of the walkways.        Engine runs good but needs some  tweaking. Cleaner wheels,  oil and iube parts and I have to file a little thickness off the one drawbar end to turn easier. All minor.         However I do have a problem that anyone can help with. This engine uses thin cardboard like stickers on the tender sides and  little ones  ( Franklin ) on the side of the cab. Unlike decals you can put on and move around to square up.  I doubt you will be able to do it with the stickers. Almost like a contact glue on then. Where you first put it might stay whether centered or straight. Does anyone have experience of ideas to get them on.                                                  Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16559	From: Richard White	Date: 5/6/2011
Subject: Building old Walthers passenger car

Hello- I recently purchased my first old-style Walthers passenger car kit on EBay. I'm referring to the tinplated steel sides/wood floor/wood or plastic roof/diecast ends kits. I see right away that gluing the sides to the wood floor, per the kit instructions, won't result in a very sturdy car. I recall that Dave Spanagel's old HO Collectors Group newsletter had an article regarding reinforcing the sides/floor connection, by soldering bracing of some sort to the sides. I no longer have the article, but I do have some ideas along that line. Could someone send me a copy of that article, or give me some of their insights on how to reinforce these cars. Regards- Richard White

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16560	From: J Dampier	Date: 5/6/2011
Subject: Parts needed

Got to get these parts: Varney SW7 driveshaft and screws for front truck Varney/Lifelike F-Unit driveshaft Lifelike 0-4-0 boiler and rear coupler Rivarossi Casey Jones rear tender truck, bell, and 2 drivers Mantua 0-4-0 boiler front/smoke box door Tyco horns Tyco redbox era: Need 2 tanks w/ wieghts and screws for GP20 Need @ tanks w/wieghts and screws for FP7/9 2 pairs of sideframe for MU2 w/ pins intact Rivarossi 0-4-0T frame

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16561	From: Glenn	Date: 5/6/2011
Subject: Re: Building old Walthers passenger car

I built a lot of those cars--Goo (or Pliobond) the tinplate sides to the edges of the floor, then set the joints with a soldering iron. Epoxy the ends to the floor and sides. If the car sides do not have a reinforcing angle along the top edge solder one on. Glenn Joesten -----Original Message----- From: Richard White Sent: Friday, May 06, 2011 3:57 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Building old Walthers passenger car Hello- I recently purchased my first old-style Walthers passenger car kit on EBay. I'm referring to the tinplated steel sides/wood floor/wood or plastic roof/diecast ends kits. I see right away that gluing the sides to the wood floor, per the kit instructions, won't result in a very sturdy car. I recall that Dave Spanagel's old HO Collectors Group newsletter had an article regarding reinforcing the sides/floor connection, by soldering bracing of some sort to the sides. I no longer have the article, but I do have some ideas along that line. Could someone send me a copy of that article, or give me some of their insights on how to reinforce these cars. Regards- Richard White ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16562	From: gregory r	Date: 5/6/2011
Subject: Re: Bashing LaBelle passenger cars

Denny, Guess who? Based on your input, I decided that I should join this group and am glad that I did. There is a lot of good, useable information on this site. From your posting, it appears that like Ole'Harold, you really enjoy your wooden cars. I agree! Keep up the good work, Greg Rich President & Chief Wheel Knocker New Baltimore & Fair Haven Rwy.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16563	From: gregory r	Date: 5/6/2011
Subject: Re: Building old Walthers passenger car

Richard, I have built several of the aforementioned Walthers passenger cars and have not encountered any problems with the sturdiness of the finished car when assembled per the instructions. One thing I would suggest is to use Walthers Goo (contact adhesive) when attaching the tinplate sides to the wooden floor. Some people may be making faces when I mention Goo, but like anything, if you want to use it, you have to learn about it's characteristics and use them to your advantage. If I were to glue the sides to the floor I would first dry fit the pieces and make sure all my alignments are correct. Then, apply the goo to the correct area of the interior side. If you use goo's natural tendency to "string", you can apply the goo in a "stitching" fashion. Where you can put a small glob, pick up your applicator, string it, and plop another glob, string it, and so forth until you reach the end of the side. (When you mastered this technique, you can use a brass wire as an applicator and take advantage of the "strings" in attaching windows with no visible glue.) Once you have the goo applied to your satisfaction, press the two pieces to be joined and pull slightly apart, allow about 2 minutes and re-press/ align. Set aside to dry and it WILL NOT COME APART! Regards, Greg Rich

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16564	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 5/6/2011
Subject: Re: Building old Walthers passenger car

Yep. Glenn and Rich have it right. Unless you're planning on tossing the car around, Walther's Goo will do the trick anywhere metal meets a flat wood surface. Don't put it on too thick (a thin line will be fine--read Rich's advice) and solder any metals together that will take the solder. The extra advantage of Goo is that you have time to move things around a bit before it permanently sets, and super glues are not satisfactory for all situations. Don't waste time on elaborate, reinforcing braces, etc.   Art W   In a message dated 5/6/2011 8:30:10 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, glenn476@... writes: I built a lot of those cars--Goo  (or Pliobond) the tinplate sides to the edges of the floor, then set the joints with a soldering iron.    Epoxy the ends to the floor and sides.  If the car sides do not have a reinforcing angle along the top edge solder one on. Glenn Joesten -----Original Message----- From: Richard White Sent: Friday, May 06, 2011 3:57 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Building old Walthers passenger car Hello- I recently purchased my first old-style Walthers passenger car kit on EBay. I'm referring to the tinplated steel sides/wood floor/wood or plastic roof/diecast ends kits. I see right away that gluing the sides to the wood floor, per the kit instructions, won't result in a very sturdy car. I recall that Dave Spanagel's old HO Collectors Group newsletter had an article regarding reinforcing the sides/floor connection, by soldering bracing of some sort to the sides. I no longer have the article, but I do have some ideas along that line. Could someone send me a copy of that article, or give me some of their insights on how to reinforce these cars. Regards- Richard White ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings:     Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join     (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email:     vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com     vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:     vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16565	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 5/6/2011
Subject: Re: Building old Walthers passenger car

A bit more of advice on the Goo. Keep the cap on the tube whenever possible, and watch out for new tubes of the stuff. It runs out fast till it thickens up a bit in the tube from usage and will mar some kinds of paint permanently. Take it from a guy who has learned the hard way. And a bit more on super type glues. They often will not hold well on shiny surfaces unless there is a chemical bond formed between the 2 materials. The materials will sometimes will snap apart even if twisted slightly. Goo will usually go down fighting and will maintain enough elasticity to hold even under unusual stresses after a long period of time.   Art W   In a message dated 5/6/2011 8:44:03 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, luvprr@... writes: Yep. Glenn and Rich have it right. Unless you're planning on tossing the car around, Walther's Goo will do the trick anywhere metal meets a flat wood surface. Don't put it on too thick (a thin line will be fine--read Rich's advice) and solder any metals together that will take the solder. The extra advantage of Goo is that you have time to move things around a bit before it permanently sets, and super glues are not satisfactory for all situations. Don't waste time on elaborate, reinforcing braces, etc.   Art W   In a message dated 5/6/2011 8:30:10 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, glenn476@... writes: I built a lot of those cars--Goo  (or Pliobond) the tinplate sides to the edges of the floor, then set the joints with a soldering iron.    Epoxy the ends to the floor and sides.  If the car sides do not have a reinforcing angle along the top edge solder one on. Glenn Joesten -----Original Message----- From: Richard White Sent: Friday, May 06, 2011 3:57 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Building old Walthers passenger car Hello- I recently purchased my first old-style Walthers passenger car kit on EBay. I'm referring to the tinplated steel sides/wood floor/wood or plastic roof/diecast ends kits. I see right away that gluing the sides to the wood floor, per the kit instructions, won't result in a very sturdy car. I recall that Dave Spanagel's old HO Collectors Group newsletter had an article regarding reinforcing the sides/floor connection, by soldering bracing of some sort to the sides. I no longer have the article, but I do have some ideas along that line. Could someone send me a copy of that article, or give me some of their insights on how to reinforce these cars. Regards- Richard White ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings:     Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join     (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email:     vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com     vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:     vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16566	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 5/6/2011
Subject: Re: Building old Walthers passenger car

----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard White" <toytrain13@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, May 06, 2011 5:57 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Building old Walthers passenger car > Hello- I recently purchased my first old-style Walthers passenger car kit > on EBay. I'm referring to the tinplated steel sides/wood floor/wood or > plastic roof/diecast ends kits. I see right away that gluing the sides to > the wood floor, per the kit instructions, won't result in a very sturdy > car. I recall that Dave Spanagel's old HO Collectors Group newsletter had > an article regarding reinforcing the sides/floor connection, by soldering > bracing of some sort to the sides. I no longer have the article, but I do > have some ideas along that line. Could someone send me a copy of that > article, or give me some of their insights on how to reinforce these cars. > Regards- Richard White > I glue the sides and ends to the floor and each other just like the instructions say, using a good contact cement, and you'd be surprised how sturdy it really is. I don't even glue on the roofs, leaving them loose in case I ever get around to putting in interiors and I've never had a problem. as far as soldering on bracing, this would be probably just be some 1/8" brass angle, like that from K&S, soldered to the inside the thickness of the floor above the bottom, but again, I've never found it necessary. The older pre-1959 cars have sides that fold under the floor, and I've seen models where the builders actually ran screws through this flange up through the floor. Back when they only had Ambroid or household cement, this made a car so sturdy you could bop your little sister over the head with it without hurting the car, but hopefully we don't need to do that anymore <G>. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16567	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 5/6/2011
Subject: Re: Building old Walthers passenger car

There's a new (at least new to me, I only first saw it a few months ago) glue that I found, of all places, at Walgreen's ! It's called "Multi-purpose SureFlex Adhesive", brand name "Surehold". It is thin, acting just like you describe the new Goo, but it's transparent. I have been amazed, this stuff seems to glue anything to anything with remarkable strength. The only thing I haven't tried it on yet is nylon or delrin, the only answer there seems to still be epoxy. I don't particularly like super-glue for much of anything. While it has very good tensile strength (remember the golf ball glued to the hard hat in the old displays?), it has shear strength somewhat akin to library paste. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: <luvprr@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, May 06, 2011 8:10 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Building old Walthers passenger car >A bit more of advice on the Goo. Keep the cap on the tube whenever > possible, and watch out for new tubes of the stuff. It runs out fast till > it > thickens up a bit in the tube from usage and will mar some kinds of paint > permanently. Take it from a guy who has learned the hard way. And a bit > more on > super type glues. They often will not hold well on shiny surfaces unless > there is a chemical bond formed between the 2 materials. The materials > will > sometimes will snap apart even if twisted slightly. Goo will usually go > down > fighting and will maintain enough elasticity to hold even under unusual > stresses after a long period of time. > > Art W

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16568	From: Nelson	Date: 5/7/2011
Subject: Re: AHM Brass

Thanks for all of the additional info on these. The brass they imported were offered just early enough that I saw them advertised. I'm not aware of any brass & Zamac imports, but I do remember some 'pseudo-brass' commemorative runs of certain plastic Rivarossi locos in gold paint from the 60's or 70's that seem to be sought after by collectors. Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "cwrailman" <cwrailman@...> wrote: > > Nelson, > > I am a bit late in coming to this party but the AHM loco's you may have heard about being bad were probably the ones imported in the 1980's. These were a hybrid of brass and cast Zamic which was painted brass color. These were poorly manufactured and some disassembled themselves right before your eyes. I believe there were several models in that line. One was a ATSF Mikado and the other a Pacific. You definitely want to stay away from those. > > Based on the few early AHM brass loco's I have seen, I would say they were comparable to others being imported at the same time. While the PFM Crown models of the time ran pretty well right out of the box after lubrication, many other brass models of the time did need a bit of tweaking including breaking in, lapping of the gears and proper lubrication to smooth out the hitches in the get-a-long. > > Denny > Janitor in Training > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Nelson" <greenbrier614@> wrote: > > > > I had heard that AHM imported a brass steamer years ago, but I'd never seen it until this auction. > > > > http://tinyurl.com/3tvp5jz > > > > I read somewhere (maybe here) that they were like factory seconds that had problems like poorly soldered detail, etc. It's a darn nice looking model of a Milwaukee F-6, though. Anyone here ever own one? > > > > I also noticed AHM 'buy one, bet one' stickers on HOTCO boxes for New One locos in two separate auctions recently. > > > > http://tinyurl.com/42l7s5v > > > > I guess this was from the transition point from HOTCO to AHM, which would have been when... the late fifties? > > > > Nelson > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16569	From: Nelson	Date: 5/7/2011
Subject: Re: AHM Brass

Edit: That should read "early enough that I NEVER saw them advertised." Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Nelson" <greenbrier614@...> wrote: > > Thanks for all of the additional info on these. The brass they imported were offered just early enough that I saw them advertised. I'm not aware of any brass & Zamac imports, but I do remember some 'pseudo-brass' commemorative runs of certain plastic Rivarossi locos in gold paint from the 60's or 70's that seem to be sought after by collectors. > > Nelson > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "cwrailman" <cwrailman@> wrote: > > > > Nelson, > > > > I am a bit late in coming to this party but the AHM loco's you may have heard about being bad were probably the ones imported in the 1980's. These were a hybrid of brass and cast Zamic which was painted brass color. These were poorly manufactured and some disassembled themselves right before your eyes. I believe there were several models in that line. One was a ATSF Mikado and the other a Pacific. You definitely want to stay away from those. > > > > Based on the few early AHM brass loco's I have seen, I would say they were comparable to others being imported at the same time. While the PFM Crown models of the time ran pretty well right out of the box after lubrication, many other brass models of the time did need a bit of tweaking including breaking in, lapping of the gears and proper lubrication to smooth out the hitches in the get-a-long. > > > > Denny > > Janitor in Training > > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops > > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Nelson" <greenbrier614@> wrote: > > > > > > I had heard that AHM imported a brass steamer years ago, but I'd never seen it until this auction. > > > > > > http://tinyurl.com/3tvp5jz > > > > > > I read somewhere (maybe here) that they were like factory seconds that had problems like poorly soldered detail, etc. It's a darn nice looking model of a Milwaukee F-6, though. Anyone here ever own one? > > > > > > I also noticed AHM 'buy one, bet one' stickers on HOTCO boxes for New One locos in two separate auctions recently. > > > > > > http://tinyurl.com/42l7s5v > > > > > > I guess this was from the transition point from HOTCO to AHM, which would have been when... the late fifties? > > > > > > Nelson > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16570	From: Denny Anspach	Date: 5/7/2011
Subject: Re: Building old Walthers passenger car

The cast ends have a small lip that effectively hides the bare ends of the sides as seen from the outside.. Once the side is in place, simply glue a small length of 1/16" square wood or similar into the inside corner between the end of the side and the cast end, resulting in the side being trapped in a "sandwich". I built all 32 of my Walthers cars in that manner (with GOO) many decades ago, and they remain bulletproof. GOO: This glue is still usable, and perhaps "just right" in specific situations, but it has been superceded by a much better contact glue, Barge Cement (carrlied routinely in ACE and Orchard Supply hardware stores, and reportedly also in Home Depot). Barge has been around for about 70 years, used almost exclusively in the shoe fabrication and repair business. Only in the last then years has it been marketed to the retail business. Its overwhelming advantage over GOO is it relative lack of "stringiness", in large part due to the much longer time that it takes to develop "full contact mode" (c. 2-3 minutes for GOO, 8-15 minutes for Barge). By using a special applicator (a cap drilled through with a #60 drill), Barge can be used for the very tiniest applications (I have tried the same trick with GOO, and it doesn't work- big time). Because of this feature Barge has gained a good following amongst the Prototype Modeler builders (resin kits, primarily), and those hand laying track and turnouts. Also, if your shoes need repair, you can save the cost of the glue several times over (personal experience). Denny Denny S. Anspach, MD Sacramento

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16571	From: cwrailman	Date: 5/7/2011
Subject: Re: Bashing LaBelle passenger cars

Welcome abord Greg. I am sure you will have much to contribute to this group. A lot of modelers with the same interests as you and I and Jimmy meet here and have a lot of really good indepth information to share. You have got to read the history of Ambroid then post some of the cars you have built in the photo section. Great people here. Put some pressure on the "Ole Fart" to join. I know he would enjoy the discussions especially the one going on currently about Walthers passenger cars. He has built a few of those. Now back to the shops, Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "gregory r" <steamers01@...> wrote: > > > > > > Denny, > Guess who? Based on your input, I decided that I should join this group and am glad that I did. There is a lot of good, useable information on this site. From your posting, it appears that like Ole'Harold, you really enjoy your wooden cars. I agree! > > Keep up the good work, > > Greg Rich > President & Chief Wheel Knocker > New Baltimore & Fair Haven Rwy. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16572	From: cwrailman	Date: 5/7/2011
Subject: Re: AHM Brass

Nelson, If you would like to see one of the Brass and Zamic hybrids I spoke about, there is one for sale at Caboose Hobbies. It is their item no. BC84070. It is the Pacific version but a Mike was also sold at the same time. They are the ones I would suggest syating away from. Now back to the shops, Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Nelson" <greenbrier614@...> wrote: > > Thanks for all of the additional info on these. The brass they imported were offered just early enough that I saw them advertised. I'm not aware of any brass & Zamac imports, but I do remember some 'pseudo-brass' commemorative runs of certain plastic Rivarossi locos in gold paint from the 60's or 70's that seem to be sought after by collectors. > > Nelson > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "cwrailman" <cwrailman@> wrote: > > > > Nelson, > > > > I am a bit late in coming to this party but the AHM loco's you may have heard about being bad were probably the ones imported in the 1980's. These were a hybrid of brass and cast Zamic which was painted brass color. These were poorly manufactured and some disassembled themselves right before your eyes. I believe there were several models in that line. One was a ATSF Mikado and the other a Pacific. You definitely want to stay away from those. > > > > Based on the few early AHM brass loco's I have seen, I would say they were comparable to others being imported at the same time. While the PFM Crown models of the time ran pretty well right out of the box after lubrication, many other brass models of the time did need a bit of tweaking including breaking in, lapping of the gears and proper lubrication to smooth out the hitches in the get-a-long. > > > > Denny > > Janitor in Training > > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops > > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Nelson" <greenbrier614@> wrote: > > > > > > I had heard that AHM imported a brass steamer years ago, but I'd never seen it until this auction. > > > > > > http://tinyurl.com/3tvp5jz > > > > > > I read somewhere (maybe here) that they were like factory seconds that had problems like poorly soldered detail, etc. It's a darn nice looking model of a Milwaukee F-6, though. Anyone here ever own one? > > > > > > I also noticed AHM 'buy one, bet one' stickers on HOTCO boxes for New One locos in two separate auctions recently. > > > > > > http://tinyurl.com/42l7s5v > > > > > > I guess this was from the transition point from HOTCO to AHM, which would have been when... the late fifties? > > > > > > Nelson > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16573	From: Glenn	Date: 5/7/2011
Subject: Re: AHM Brass

There has been a new generation of brass snd Zamak "hybrid" imports in recent years. PSC's Mountain Model Imports division has done the four Rio Grande "K" classes and the C-19 2-8-0's in On3, K-27's and possibly others in HOn3, and Blackstone has the K-27 and is coming out with the C-19 in HOn3--all making the "big pieces" in Zamak, with the smaller details in brass These are all factory painted, so one wouldn't notice the means of construction just looking at them. gj -----Original Message----- From: Nelson Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2011 4:19 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Re: AHM Brass Thanks for all of the additional info on these. The brass they imported were offered just early enough that I saw them advertised. I'm not aware of any brass & Zamac imports, but I do remember some 'pseudo-brass' commemorative runs of certain plastic Rivarossi locos in gold paint from the 60's or 70's that seem to be sought after by collectors. Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "cwrailman" <cwrailman@...> wrote: > > Nelson, > > I am a bit late in coming to this party but the AHM loco's you may have > heard about being bad were probably the ones imported in the 1980's. > These were a hybrid of brass and cast Zamic which was painted brass color. > These were poorly manufactured and some disassembled themselves right > before your eyes. I believe there were several models in that line. One > was a ATSF Mikado and the other a Pacific. You definitely want to stay > away from those. > > Based on the few early AHM brass loco's I have seen, I would say they were > comparable to others being imported at the same time. While the PFM Crown > models of the time ran pretty well right out of the box after lubrication, > many other brass models of the time did need a bit of tweaking including > breaking in, lapping of the gears and proper lubrication to smooth out the > hitches in the get-a-long. > > Denny > Janitor in Training > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Nelson" <greenbrier614@> wrote: > > > > I had heard that AHM imported a brass steamer years ago, but I'd never > > seen it until this auction. > > > > http://tinyurl.com/3tvp5jz > > > > I read somewhere (maybe here) that they were like factory seconds that > > had problems like poorly soldered detail, etc. It's a darn nice looking > > model of a Milwaukee F-6, though. Anyone here ever own one? > > > > I also noticed AHM 'buy one, bet one' stickers on HOTCO boxes for New > > One locos in two separate auctions recently. > > > > http://tinyurl.com/42l7s5v > > > > I guess this was from the transition point from HOTCO to AHM, which > > would have been when... the late fifties? > > > > Nelson > > > ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16574	From: cwrailman	Date: 5/7/2011
Subject: Re: AHM Brass

Yes the brass community has somewhat accepted the Hybrid concept. Prior to those that Glen lists, Oriental had some excellent hybrid models in their Powerhouse series with chassis by Samhongsa. Those models were sold in the mid to late 1980's. I have had four of those models and they all operate flawlessly. However like I said I have seen a few copies of those AHM hybrid models and they were not at all made well. I believe they originally sold for around $150 but after a few years they were selling at swaps for $50-75. I believe they were offered in black and brass colored paint. Now back to the shops, Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Glenn" <glenn476@...> wrote: > > There has been a new generation of brass snd Zamak "hybrid" imports in > recent years. PSC's Mountain Model Imports division has done the four Rio > Grande "K" classes and the C-19 2-8-0's in On3, K-27's and possibly others > in HOn3, and Blackstone has the K-27 and is coming out with the C-19 in > HOn3--all making the "big pieces" in Zamak, with the smaller details in > brass These are all factory painted, so one wouldn't notice the means of > construction just looking at them. gj > > -----Original Message----- > From: Nelson > Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2011 4:19 AM > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: AHM Brass > > Thanks for all of the additional info on these. The brass they imported were > offered just early enough that I saw them advertised. I'm not aware of any > brass & Zamac imports, but I do remember some 'pseudo-brass' commemorative > runs of certain plastic Rivarossi locos in gold paint from the 60's or 70's > that seem to be sought after by collectors. > > Nelson > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "cwrailman" <cwrailman@> wrote: > > > > Nelson, > > > > I am a bit late in coming to this party but the AHM loco's you may have > > heard about being bad were probably the ones imported in the 1980's. > > These were a hybrid of brass and cast Zamic which was painted brass color. > > These were poorly manufactured and some disassembled themselves right > > before your eyes. I believe there were several models in that line. One > > was a ATSF Mikado and the other a Pacific. You definitely want to stay > > away from those. > > > > Based on the few early AHM brass loco's I have seen, I would say they were > > comparable to others being imported at the same time. While the PFM Crown > > models of the time ran pretty well right out of the box after lubrication, > > many other brass models of the time did need a bit of tweaking including > > breaking in, lapping of the gears and proper lubrication to smooth out the > > hitches in the get-a-long. > > > > Denny > > Janitor in Training > > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops > > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Nelson" <greenbrier614@> wrote: > > > > > > I had heard that AHM imported a brass steamer years ago, but I'd never > > > seen it until this auction. > > > > > > http://tinyurl.com/3tvp5jz > > > > > > I read somewhere (maybe here) that they were like factory seconds that > > > had problems like poorly soldered detail, etc. It's a darn nice looking > > > model of a Milwaukee F-6, though. Anyone here ever own one? > > > > > > I also noticed AHM 'buy one, bet one' stickers on HOTCO boxes for New > > > One locos in two separate auctions recently. > > > > > > http://tinyurl.com/42l7s5v > > > > > > I guess this was from the transition point from HOTCO to AHM, which > > > would have been when... the late fifties? > > > > > > Nelson > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16575	From: Lawrence	Date: 5/7/2011
Subject: Re: Building old Walthers passenger car

I have 13 of these ATSF heavyweight kits that I obtained in a "fire sale" at least 30 years ago at a great price. I had planned to build them up in an assembly line fashion when I retired, but after 17 years of retirement I haven't gotten there ... yet. Are they worth more in kit form or built up? Do you think they would stand out as crude on a layout populated with Walthers and TSP products? Which paint product is best suited for these (in ATSF pullman style). I have also picked up a few that have already been built, some good some poorly, at swaps and wonder if they are worth repairing and returning to service. Any thoughts?? Dale in Spokane --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Denny Anspach <danspach@...> wrote: > > The cast ends have a small lip that effectively hides the bare ends of the sides as seen from the outside.. Once the side is in place, simply glue a small length of 1/16" square wood or similar into the inside corner between the end of the side and the cast end, resulting in the side being trapped in a "sandwich". > I built all 32 of my Walthers cars in that manner (with GOO) many decades ago, and they remain bulletproof. > > GOO: This glue is still usable, and perhaps "just right" in specific situations, but it has been superceded by a much better contact glue, Barge Cement (carrlied routinely in ACE and Orchard Supply hardware stores, and reportedly also in Home Depot). Barge has been around for about 70 years, used almost exclusively in the shoe fabrication and repair business. Only in the last then years has it been marketed to the retail business. Its overwhelming advantage over GOO is it relative lack of "stringiness", in large part due to the much longer time that it takes to develop "full contact mode" (c. 2-3 minutes for GOO, 8-15 minutes for Barge). > > By using a special applicator (a cap drilled through with a #60 drill), Barge can be used for the very tiniest applications (I have tried the same trick with GOO, and it doesn't work- big time). Because of this feature Barge has gained a good following amongst the Prototype Modeler builders (resin kits, primarily), and those hand laying track and turnouts. Also, if your shoes need repair, you can save the cost of the glue several times over (personal experience). > > Denny > > Denny S. Anspach, MD > Sacramento >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16576	From: Richard White	Date: 5/7/2011
Subject: Re: Building old Walthers passenger car

Dale- There are a couple of the ATSF heavyweight Walthers kits on EBay right now, so you can see what these sell for. My belief is that a kit might be worth more, at least when you consider your labor. Regarding their comparison with modern Pullmans from Walthers and others, I think the Walthers kits have a real "presence" (some would call it "charm") compared to modern plastic. You certainly have more pride of possesion compared to a ready-built plastic Pullman. I think you should definitely consider restoring yours! And thanks to all the forum members who have offered me advice on building my kit. I will go with the Barge cement (thanks, Denny).  -Richard White  To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: dale.hokanson@... Date: Sat, 7 May 2011 22:47:53 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Building old Walthers passenger car   I have 13 of these ATSF heavyweight kits that I obtained in a "fire sale" at least 30 years ago at a great price. I had planned to build them up in an assembly line fashion when I retired, but after 17 years of retirement I haven't gotten there ... yet. Are they worth more in kit form or built up? Do you think they would stand out as crude on a layout populated with Walthers and TSP products? Which paint product is best suited for these (in ATSF pullman style). I have also picked up a few that have already been built, some good some poorly, at swaps and wonder if they are worth repairing and returning to service. Any thoughts?? Dale in Spokane --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Denny Anspach <danspach@...> wrote: > > The cast ends have a small lip that effectively hides the bare ends of the sides as seen from the outside.. Once the side is in place, simply glue a small length of 1/16" square wood or similar into the inside corner between the end of the side and the cast end, resulting in the side being trapped in a "sandwich". > I built all 32 of my Walthers cars in that manner (with GOO) many decades ago, and they remain bulletproof. > > GOO: This glue is still usable, and perhaps "just right" in specific situations, but it has been superceded by a much better contact glue, Barge Cement (carrlied routinely in ACE and Orchard Supply hardware stores, and reportedly also in Home Depot). Barge has been around for about 70 years, used almost exclusively in the shoe fabrication and repair business. Only in the last then years has it been marketed to the retail business. Its overwhelming advantage over GOO is it relative lack of "stringiness", in large part due to the much longer time that it takes to develop "full contact mode" (c. 2-3 minutes for GOO, 8-15 minutes for Barge). > > By using a special applicator (a cap drilled through with a #60 drill), Barge can be used for the very tiniest applications (I have tried the same trick with GOO, and it doesn't work- big time). Because of this feature Barge has gained a good following amongst the Prototype Modeler builders (resin kits, primarily), and those hand laying track and turnouts. Also, if your shoes need repair, you can save the cost of the glue several times over (personal experience). > > Denny > > Denny S. Anspach, MD > Sacramento >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16577	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 5/7/2011
Subject: Re: Building old Walthers passenger car

----- Original Message ----- From: "Lawrence" <dale.hokanson@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2011 5:47 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Building old Walthers passenger car >I have 13 of these ATSF heavyweight kits that I obtained in a "fire sale" >at least 30 years ago at a great price. I had planned to build them up in >an assembly line fashion when I retired, but after 17 years of retirement I >haven't gotten there ... yet. Are they worth more in kit form or built up? >Do you think they would stand out as crude on a layout populated with >Walthers and TSP products? Which paint product is best suited for these >(in ATSF pullman style). I have also picked up a few that have already >been built, some good some poorly, at swaps and wonder if they are worth >repairing and returning to service. Any thoughts?? > > Dale in Spokane If it were me I would build them and run them. Actually that's what this group is about, actually RUNNING these great old vintage pieces. My fleet of "heavyweights" is almost all Walthers, JC and varney (yeah, even the old cardstock kits), and I wouldn't trade a single on of them for one of today's RTR cars. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16578	From: Lawrence	Date: 5/7/2011
Subject: Re: Building old Walthers passenger car

Are the JC kits in any way related to the old Walthers heavyweight kits? They look (on ebay) to be very similar. Dale in Spokane --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lawrence" <dale.hokanson@...> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2011 5:47 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Building old Walthers passenger car > > > My fleet of "heavyweights" is almost all Walthers, JC and varney (yeah, even > the old cardstock kits), and I wouldn't trade a single on of them for one of > today's RTR cars. > > Don >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16579	From: railroads@slingshot.co.nz	Date: 5/7/2011
Subject: ID Waznted - 40ft Box Car - SP

HI In group: Photos Album:1 Vintage ID Wanted: Vintage 40 ft Boxcar there is a photo of a 40 ft outside braced tinplate box car in a SP paint scheme with wings (SP never had). Who manufactured this. Have checked HOSeeker for Varney, no luck there. Has a wooden chassis, tinplate roof?, and some tinplate roof ribs (clip--on). See photo. I need some more ribs as well. Who was the manufacturer, and where am I likely to find some more ribs ? Still finding my way around vintage equipment. Thanks Charlie Harris

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16580	From: Glenn	Date: 5/7/2011
Subject: Re: Building old Walthers passenger car

yes--both lines were similar--My main experience with both was in O Scale--Walthers sides were tin plate, JC, at least after they went into All Nation line, were aluminum. gj -----Original Message----- From: Lawrence Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2011 4:50 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Building old Walthers passenger car Are the JC kits in any way related to the old Walthers heavyweight kits? They look (on ebay) to be very similar. Dale in Spokane --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lawrence" <dale.hokanson@...> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2011 5:47 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Building old Walthers passenger car > > > My fleet of "heavyweights" is almost all Walthers, JC and varney (yeah, > even > the old cardstock kits), and I wouldn't trade a single on of them for one > of > today's RTR cars. > > Don > ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16581	From: Russ Shiel	Date: 5/7/2011
Subject: Re: ID Waznted - 40ft Box Car - SP

H'lo Charlie (and group!)...according to Dave Spanagel's card-stock car listing, the black  SP&S 'Overnight Merchandise Service' boxcar #9134 with the winged SP logo was a Red Ball kit. Chrs, Russ From: "railroads@..." <railroads@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, 8 May, 2011 10:33:53 AM Subject: [vintageHO] ID Waznted - 40ft Box Car - SP [snip] Who was the manufacturer, and where am I likely to find some more ribs ?

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16582	From: Russ Shiel	Date: 5/7/2011
Subject: Re: boxcar ID - SP not SP&S!

Sorry Charlie (and group!)...fingers faster than brain...they typed SP&S while brain was somewhere else! In any event, as Charlie is just across the Tasman from me, 1500 km as the seagull flies, I will hunt some roof ribs from my Red Ball junkyard box for the *SP* boxcar rebuild! Chrs, Russ From: "railroads@..." <railroads@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, 8 May, 2011 10:33:53 AM Subject: [vintageHO] ID Waznted - 40ft Box Car - SP   Who was the manufacturer, and where am I likely to find some more ribs ?

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16583	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 5/7/2011
Subject: Re: Building old Walthers passenger car

----- Original Message ----- From: "Lawrence" <dale.hokanson@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2011 6:50 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Building old Walthers passenger car > Are the JC kits in any way related to the old Walthers heavyweight kits? > They look (on ebay) to be very similar. > > Dale in Spokane Similar. There's the original JC that had cardstock sides, then the JC "Silversides" which were metal. The biggest difference between the Walthers and the metal JC is the JC sides are flat, no lip at top OR bottom, and they must be trimmed to length so you generally have to glue the ends to the floor first, then cut the JC sides to fit between the ends. Other than that they're pretty much the same. JC has a metal diaphragm casting to add to the end that Walthers doesn't (which I don't use anyway as I add my own foam diaphragms), and there are differences in the number of detail castings, JC has more than the early Walthers, not as many as the newest (plastic roof). Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16584	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 5/7/2011
Subject: Re: ID Waznted - 40ft Box Car - SP

The lettering and number matches Varney cardstock kit number B-30. These would have wooden roof and floor, and embossed cardstock sides. You could probably use anyone's ribs, if you like I may have some spare Silver Streak ones I can send you, write me off list. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: <railroads@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2011 8:03 PM Subject: [vintageHO] ID Waznted - 40ft Box Car - SP > HI > > In group: > > Photos Album:1 Vintage ID Wanted: Vintage 40 ft Boxcar > > there is a photo of a 40 ft outside braced tinplate box car in a SP paint > scheme with wings (SP never had). Who manufactured this. Have checked > HOSeeker for Varney, no luck there. Has a wooden chassis, tinplate roof?, > and some tinplate roof ribs (clip--on). See photo. I need some more ribs > as well. > > Who was the manufacturer, and where am I likely to find some more ribs ? > > Still finding my way around vintage equipment. > > Thanks > > Charlie Harris > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16585	From: Model RailRoad	Date: 5/8/2011
Subject: Re: ID Waznted - 40ft Box Car - SP

Those roof ribs (in stamped brass) are listed on the YARDSALE page of our website www.mrrwarehouse.com, Merle Rice Model RR Warehouse --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Russ Shiel <rshiel01@...> wrote: > > H'lo Charlie (and group!)...according to Dave Spanagel's card-stock car listing, > the black  SP&S 'Overnight Merchandise Service' boxcar #9134 with the winged SP > logo was a Red Ball kit. > > Chrs, Russ > > > ________________________________ > > From: "railroads@..." <railroads@...> > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sun, 8 May, 2011 10:33:53 AM > Subject: [vintageHO] ID Waznted - 40ft Box Car - SP > > [snip] > > Who was the manufacturer, and where am I likely to find some more ribs ? >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16586	From: mark_h_charles	Date: 5/8/2011
Subject: Re: Bashing LaBelle passenger cars

Denny, This is a great project and the photos are excellent. Have you considered sharing a pdf of the 'revised' drawings? Mark Charles Ann Arbor, MI

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16587	From: cwrailman	Date: 5/8/2011
Subject: Re: Bashing LaBelle passenger cars

Thanks Mark, Which project are you referring to. The one my friend Jimmy did for his FRL line called "Ruby" or mine or??? You can come up with a lot of combinations if you make copies of the LaBelle plans and spend some time with a pair of scissors. While I have never done it the same can be done with the Ambroid passenger cars however for the very ultimate in kit bashing you need to try one of the Westwood kits. I may post a few images of those in the near future. Right now the plans for the cars are in the folder as GIF or maybe JPG files but I do not believe they are to exact scale if you copy and print them out. If I did, where on this board should they be put?? Denny Janitor in Training (Currently in Rest Mode) CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "mark_h_charles" <mark_h_charles@...> wrote: > > Denny, > > This is a great project and the photos are excellent. > > Have you considered sharing a pdf of the 'revised' drawings? > > Mark Charles > Ann Arbor, MI >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16588	From: cwrailman	Date: 5/8/2011
Subject: Looking for Westerfield lettering diagram sheet

This might be slightly off topic here because it is not vintage, but it is a kit. I'm in need of the lettering diagram for a Westerfield B-50-1 box car kit no 1701. The kit I have is early because it still has the Elk Grove Village address. I am missing the lettering sheet for this kit. The decals that came in the kit do not seem to agree with the lettering I see on the Westerfield WEB site or the prototype shots I have. He must have changed the lettering somewhere along the line. Does anyone have that sheet that they can share with me? Thanks in advance. Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16589	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 5/8/2011
Subject: Re: Bashing LaBelle passenger cars

Denny, I think you'll find this to be useful. Go to .. http://hudatdere.freehostia.com/GM-Transit-OldLook.html Click on any template file and make use of the scale you'll find on that HO file drawing. You'll see a resolution label on the drawing. Edit one of those scales to use on your drawings, [clip it and save it]. As it is, if you make your future scans of HO plans in that resolution, you'll have a ready HO scale X-Y reference scale to place in the upper left corner of your project drawings. You can also convert other scales and resolutions to work with that scale. I think you'll like the way this scale is used to ensure printing in accurate HO scale. The scale can also be converted to use in other scales or resolutions. But if you scan at it's 300 pixel/inch, you'll be able to paste it in with no real problem. I suggest you stick with it's .png format as a good working format for your scans and in-work drawing projects. But again, you can convert the scale to whatever format you prefer to work in. It's just that .png is a reliable and stable format to work with. I've used assorted graphic conversion programs for so long, that I think of it as just the natural way to go. If you don't have a program that is full powered and can work in .png, you might wish to try Inkscape; an open source, freeware vector drawing program. Best to ya, Mike Bauers Milwaukee, Wi On May 8, 2011, at 5:58 PM, cwrailman wrote: > Thanks Mark, > > Which project are you referring to. The one my friend Jimmy did for > his FRL line called "Ruby" or mine or??? > > You can come up with a lot of combinations if you make copies of the > LaBelle plans and spend some time with a pair of scissors. While I > have never done it the same can be done with the Ambroid passenger > cars however for the very ultimate in kit bashing you need to try > one of the Westwood kits. I may post a few images of those in the > near future. > > Right now the plans for the cars are in the folder as GIF or maybe > JPG files but I do not believe they are to exact scale if you copy > and print them out. If I did, where on this board should they be > put?? > > Denny > Janitor in Training (Currently in Rest Mode) > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "mark_h_charles" > <mark_h_charles@...> wrote: >> >> Denny, >> >> This is a great project and the photos are excellent. >> >> Have you considered sharing a pdf of the 'revised' drawings? >> >> Mark Charles >> Ann Arbor, MI

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16590	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 5/8/2011
Subject: Re: Bashing LaBelle passenger cars

----- Original Message ----- From: "cwrailman" <cwrailman@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, May 08, 2011 5:58 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Bashing LaBelle passenger cars > Thanks Mark, > > Which project are you referring to. The one my friend Jimmy did for his > FRL line called "Ruby" or mine or??? > > You can come up with a lot of combinations if you make copies of the > LaBelle plans and spend some time with a pair of scissors. While I have > never done it the same can be done with the Ambroid passenger cars however > for the very ultimate in kit bashing you need to try one of the Westwood > kits. I may post a few images of those in the near future. > > Right now the plans for the cars are in the folder as GIF or maybe JPG > files but I do not believe they are to exact scale if you copy and print > them out. If I did, where on this board should they be put?? > > Denny > Janitor in Training (Currently in Rest Mode) > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops If you do make a file, go to the files section and create a folder, preferably with your name on it and a description of what they are, then upload them to that folder. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16591	From: Douglas	Date: 5/8/2011
Subject: Walthers gas electrics

Does anyone know who were the manufacturers of the prototypes of the Walthers doodlebug and Sperry rail inspection car (a converted doodlebug)? What companies ran them? I have a Walthers doodlebug in Great Northern livery, and it bears the same number as the Bachmann GN doodlebug, though they are clearly of different prototypes. Thanks, Doug McKercher

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16592	From: Nelson	Date: 5/10/2011
Subject: Re: AHM Brass

The appearance isn't bad, but good to know it's poorly designed just the same. Thanks for the item number. http://www.caboosehobbies.com/catalog/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=&products_id=55930 I have a feeling that these were offered earlier, though, because AHM went belly up in the early-to-mid eighties, and didn't resurface as IHC for a while. I don't think they imported anything metal after the 60's, which would explain why I never came across them in their ads. Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "cwrailman" <cwrailman@...> wrote: > > Nelson, > > If you would like to see one of the Brass and Zamic hybrids I spoke about, there is one for sale at Caboose Hobbies. It is their item no. BC84070. It is the Pacific version but a Mike was also sold at the same time. They are the ones I would suggest syating away from. > > Now back to the shops, > Denny > Janitor in Training > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16593	From: cwrailman	Date: 5/10/2011
Subject: Re: AHM Brass

Yep Nelson, your correct! I was off a bit on the importing date. I looked it up and the hybrid Brass/Zamic AHM models were imported in the mid to late 1970's. According to the brass book they were manufactured by Mizuno and the book calls them poor runners and goes on to list some of the defects. On the Pacific the rear set of drivers were into the firebox which you'll see on the the one listed in the link I posted. Time to open the shop doors, Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Nelson" <greenbrier614@...> wrote: > > The appearance isn't bad, but good to know it's poorly designed just the same. Thanks for the item number. > > http://www.caboosehobbies.com/catalog/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=&products_id=55930 > > I have a feeling that these were offered earlier, though, because AHM went belly up in the early-to-mid eighties, and didn't resurface as IHC for a while. I don't think they imported anything metal after the 60's, which would explain why I never came across them in their ads. > > Nelson > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "cwrailman" <cwrailman@> wrote: > > > > Nelson, > > > > If you would like to see one of the Brass and Zamic hybrids I spoke about, there is one for sale at Caboose Hobbies. It is their item no. BC84070. It is the Pacific version but a Mike was also sold at the same time. They are the ones I would suggest syating away from. > > > > Now back to the shops, > > Denny > > Janitor in Training > > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16594	From: cwrailman	Date: 5/10/2011
Subject: Re: Building old Walthers passenger car

Denny, Thanks for the tip. I bought a tube this weekend and added it to my tool kit. I also found a nice screw on cone shaped nozzle which will allow me to place a thin bead of the stuff exactly where I want it. Did you have any problem with it drying up in the tip or whatever it was you used? My friend Jim Kubajak and I were discussing what he used when recently completing several JC Silver Sides cars. He passed this tip along to me: "Never heard of Barge but I guess it is another brand name for contact cement. Although I have used Goo I had bought a can of Weldwood Contact Cement millennia ago and have used it for those JC kits. I believe that I have thinned it with Acetone or carbon tetrachloride." Jim is always mixing stuff. How he has not blown himself up yet is beyond me but he does have some interesting hobby related concoctions I hope to share in the future. Don, I had to laugh at you durability test. So how is that relationship with your sister going these days? By they way, would really like to see some pictures of those passenger cars. Now back to the shops, Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Denny Anspach <danspach@...> wrote: > > The cast ends have a small lip that effectively hides the bare ends of the sides as seen from the outside.. Once the side is in place, simply glue a small length of 1/16" square wood or similar into the inside corner between the end of the side and the cast end, resulting in the side being trapped in a "sandwich". > I built all 32 of my Walthers cars in that manner (with GOO) many decades ago, and they remain bulletproof. > > GOO: This glue is still usable, and perhaps "just right" in specific situations, but it has been superceded by a much better contact glue, Barge Cement (carrlied routinely in ACE and Orchard Supply hardware stores, and reportedly also in Home Depot). Barge has been around for about 70 years, used almost exclusively in the shoe fabrication and repair business. Only in the last then years has it been marketed to the retail business. Its overwhelming advantage over GOO is it relative lack of "stringiness", in large part due to the much longer time that it takes to develop "full contact mode" (c. 2-3 minutes for GOO, 8-15 minutes for Barge). > > By using a special applicator (a cap drilled through with a #60 drill), Barge can be used for the very tiniest applications (I have tried the same trick with GOO, and it doesn't work- big time). Because of this feature Barge has gained a good following amongst the Prototype Modeler builders (resin kits, primarily), and those hand laying track and turnouts. Also, if your shoes need repair, you can save the cost of the glue several times over (personal experience). > > Denny > > Denny S. Anspach, MD > Sacramento >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16595	From: cwrailman	Date: 5/10/2011
Subject: A discussion of adhesives for build wood kits

Some time ago I was discussing glues and adhesives with my friend Jim Kubajak. Jim likes to mix things and is still alive to talk about it. Here, in his own words are some of the concoctions he uses. Jim and I both use Ambroid as our base cement for wood work but he takes it a few steps further. Greg you have probably been exposed to some of this. "Yes, I have been mating dissimilar materials and have had good results in doing so. To reach this point I have made several chemical discoveries that have lead me to this bonding idea. OK, you know that I am a great believer in sealing any wood that I use for my construction (especially those LaBelle kits). What I use is Lacquer Sanding Sealer. I buy it by the quart and the key is that it thins with Lacquer Thinner. In doing one of those many wood clerestory roofs you know that one way I archive a smooth finish is by applying 5 to 7 coats, sanding with steel wool between coats. Note: A thick coat of lacquer sealer will glue two pieces of wood together. Like when I discovered that the lacquer stirring stick stuck to the wood table surface. You have probably discovered from my construction photos ( see the photos I posted in the VintageHO CWRailman –FRL photo folder) that I do use an auto body putty to fill in holes, seams and grain in the wood. I have been working from a big tube of Green Magic body putty for eons. Usually, the putty from the tube is too stiff for my use. So I thin it with acetone to a consistency that can be brushed on to wood surfaces. This works but it usually dries too quickly for my purposes. So somewhere along the line I married body putty + lacquer sanding sealer and it gave me brush-ability plus a longer drying time = a smoother finish. Note: I use MEK to dissolve similar plastics and not so similar plastics together. OK, I discovered that lacquer sanding sealer when hard-dry will dissolve with MEK. So if I want to make a plastic or styrene part to adhere to a finished roof all I had to do was to apply a small amount of MEK to the joint between the two dissimilar parts and voila, they stuck (read dissolved) to each other. Acetone will work in place of MEK but I like MEK; it is more volatile. Now you know that Ambroid glue is easily dissolved with acetone. When my Ambroid gets thick I thin it with acetone. As a mater of fact I keep different bottles of Ambroid thinned to various consistencies. You probably can use MEK to thin Ambroid but it is to volatile. Ambroid when applied to a lacquer finish bonds quite well." In addition to that conversation with Jim I also found this to be an interesting discussion of adhesives: http://www.modelrailcast.com/ShowNotes/Show130.asp Now back to the shops, Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16596	From: David J. Starr	Date: 5/10/2011
Subject: Re: A discussion of adhesives for build wood kits

On 5/10/2011 1:35 PM, cwrailman wrote: > Some time ago I was discussing glues and adhesives with my friend Jim Kubajak. Jim likes to mix things and is still alive to talk about it. Here, in his own words are some of the concoctions he uses. Jim and I both use Ambroid as our base cement for wood work but he takes it a few steps further. Greg you have probably been exposed to some of this. > > "Yes, I have been mating dissimilar materials and have had good results in doing so. To reach this point I have made several chemical discoveries that have lead me to this bonding idea. > > OK, you know that I am a great believer in sealing any wood that I use for my construction (especially those LaBelle kits). What I use is Lacquer Sanding Sealer. I buy it by the quart and the key is that it thins with Lacquer Thinner. In doing one of those many wood clerestory roofs you know that one way I archive a smooth finish is by applying 5 to 7 coats, sanding with steel wool between coats. > > Note: A thick coat of lacquer sealer will glue two pieces of wood together. Like when I discovered that the lacquer stirring stick stuck to the wood table surface. > > You have probably discovered from my construction photos ( see the photos I posted in the VintageHO CWRailman –FRL photo folder) that I do use an auto body putty to fill in holes, seams and grain in the wood. I have been working from a big tube of Green Magic body putty for eons. Usually, the putty from the tube is too stiff for my use. So I thin it with acetone to a consistency that can be brushed on to wood surfaces. This works but it usually dries too quickly for my purposes. So somewhere along the line I married body putty + lacquer sanding sealer and it gave me brush-ability plus a longer drying time = a smoother finish. > > Note: I use MEK to dissolve similar plastics and not so similar plastics together. > > OK, I discovered that lacquer sanding sealer when hard-dry will dissolve with MEK. So if I want to make a plastic or styrene part to adhere to a finished roof all I had to do was to apply a small amount of MEK to the joint between the two dissimilar parts and voila, they stuck (read dissolved) to each other. Acetone will work in place of MEK but I like MEK; it is more volatile. > > Now you know that Ambroid glue is easily dissolved with acetone. When my Ambroid gets thick I thin it with acetone. As a mater of fact I keep different bottles of Ambroid thinned to various consistencies. You probably can use MEK to thin Ambroid but it is to volatile. Ambroid when applied to a lacquer finish bonds quite well." > > In addition to that conversation with Jim I also found this to be an interesting discussion of adhesives: > http://www.modelrailcast.com/ShowNotes/Show130.asp > > Now back to the shops, > Denny > Janitor in Training > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops > I use plain old hardware store shellac for a wood sealer. When I really need a sealer, which in model work isn't often. A wood sealer is a clear coat of something (shellac, lacquer, thinned down varnish, whatever) applied to new work to seal the grain. It prevents the following coats of stain or paint from sinking into the soft grain more deeply than into the hard grain, which prevents the wood grain from showing thru the paint or stain. The bass wood we use for models is so fine grained that we don't really need a sealer under coats of paint. The other reason for sealer, is to put something on the inside of the model as well as the outside. If you don't paint the inside of a wooden model, the inside will absorb or loose moisture to the air which causes warping, a bad thing. So I typically give all the parts of a wood model a coat of shellac on both sides. It dries quickly, as quickly as lacquer. Adhesives for wood models. Cellulose cement (Duco, Ambroid) is good, dries quickly, doesn't need clamping, and is strong enough for most things. For joints that require real strength (say the end blocks of a Northeasten wood coach) you cannot beat yellow carpenter's glue. It's cheap, it has a reasonable working time. It needs over night to dry hard, and it must be clamped to develop decent strength. But it's the strongest wood to wood glue out there, that's why carpenters and cabinet makers use it. Nearly as good, and available everywhere is Elmer's white glue. Either yellow carpenter's glue or Elmers will give a joint two or three times stronger than what can be acheived with cellulose cement. For the extra difficult joint, say one impossible to clamp, big gaps between the gluing surfaces, and a need for strength, five minute epoxy is still king of the hill. The hardened epoxy is a good tough plastic so it can fill up all sorts of gaps. I believe that paints and glues age on the shelf. They may work for a few years, but after 10 or 15 years aging on my shelf, I don't trust 'em any more. -- David J. Starr Blog: http://www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16597	From: Carl Neste	Date: 5/10/2011
Subject: Re: A discussion of adhesives for build wood kits

I restarted modeling after nearly fifty years away from it. I still had a lot of supplies left from the 60’s. I was quite surprised to find that of all the Floquil and PollyS paints I had, hardly any had dried up. Even a couple tubes of Ambroid and Goo were still useable. Maybe they DO still make them like they used to. Carl -----Original Message----- From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of David J. Starr Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2011 4:12 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] A discussion of adhesives for build wood kits On 5/10/2011 1:35 PM, cwrailman wrote: > Some time ago I was discussing glues and adhesives with my friend Jim Kubajak.  Jim likes to mix things and is still alive to talk about it.  Here, in his own words are some of the concoctions he uses.  Jim and I both use Ambroid as our base cement for wood work but he takes it a few steps further.  Greg you have probably been exposed to some of this. > > "Yes, I have been mating dissimilar materials and have had good results in doing so.  To reach this point I have made several chemical discoveries that have lead me to this bonding idea. > > OK, you know that I am a great believer in sealing any wood that I use for my construction (especially those LaBelle kits).  What I use is Lacquer Sanding Sealer.  I buy it by the quart and the key is that it thins with Lacquer Thinner.   In doing one of those many wood clerestory roofs you know that one way I archive a smooth finish is by applying 5 to 7 coats, sanding with steel wool between coats. > > Note:  A thick coat of lacquer sealer will glue two pieces of wood together.  Like when I discovered that the lacquer stirring stick stuck to the wood table surface. > > You have probably discovered from my construction photos ( see the photos I posted in the VintageHO CWRailman –FRL photo folder) that I do use an auto body putty to fill in holes, seams and grain in the wood.   I have been working from a big tube of Green Magic body putty for eons.  Usually, the putty from the tube is too stiff for my use.  So I thin it with acetone to a consistency that can be brushed on to wood surfaces.   This works but it usually dries too quickly for my purposes.  So somewhere along the line I married body putty + lacquer sanding sealer and it gave me brush-ability plus a longer drying time = a smoother finish. > > Note:  I use MEK to dissolve similar plastics and not so similar plastics together. > > OK, I discovered that lacquer sanding sealer when hard-dry will dissolve with MEK.  So if I want to make a plastic or styrene part to adhere to a finished roof all I had to do was to apply a small amount of MEK to the joint between the two dissimilar parts and voila, they stuck (read dissolved) to each other.  Acetone will work in place of MEK but I like MEK; it is more volatile. > > Now you know that Ambroid glue is easily dissolved with acetone.  When my Ambroid gets thick I thin it with acetone.  As a mater of fact I keep different bottles of Ambroid thinned to various consistencies.   You probably can use MEK to thin Ambroid but it is to volatile.  Ambroid when applied to a lacquer finish bonds quite well." > > In addition to that conversation with Jim I also found this to be an interesting discussion of adhesives: > http://www.modelrailcast.com/ShowNotes/Show130.asp > > Now back to the shops, > Denny > Janitor in Training > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops > I use plain old hardware store shellac for a wood sealer.  When I really need a sealer, which in model work isn't often.  A wood sealer is a clear coat of something (shellac, lacquer, thinned down varnish, whatever) applied to new work to seal the grain. It prevents the following coats of stain or paint from sinking into the soft grain more deeply than into the hard grain, which prevents the wood grain from showing thru the paint or stain.  The bass wood we use for models is so fine grained that we don't really need a sealer under coats of paint.    The other reason for sealer, is to put something on the inside of the model as well as the outside.  If you don't paint the inside of a wooden model, the inside will absorb or loose moisture to the air which causes warping, a bad thing.  So I typically give all the parts of a wood model a coat of shellac on both sides.  It dries quickly, as quickly as lacquer.    Adhesives for wood models.  Cellulose cement (Duco, Ambroid) is good, dries quickly, doesn't need clamping, and is strong enough for most things. For joints that require real strength (say the end blocks of a Northeasten wood coach) you cannot beat yellow carpenter's glue.  It's cheap, it has a reasonable working time.  It needs over night to dry hard, and it must be clamped to develop decent strength.  But it's the strongest wood to wood glue out there, that's why carpenters and cabinet makers use it.  Nearly as good, and available everywhere is Elmer's white glue.  Either yellow carpenter's glue or Elmers will give a joint two or three times stronger than what can be acheived with cellulose cement.    For the extra difficult joint, say one impossible to clamp, big gaps between the gluing surfaces, and a need for strength, five minute epoxy is still king of the hill. The hardened epoxy is a good tough plastic so it can fill up all sorts of gaps.    I believe that paints and glues age on the shelf.  They may work for a few years, but after 10 or 15 years aging on my shelf, I don't trust 'em any more. -- David J. Starr Blog:  http://www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings:     Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join     (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email:     vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com     vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:     vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16598	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 5/10/2011
Subject: Re: Building old Walthers passenger car

----- Original Message ----- From: "cwrailman" <cwrailman@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2011 11:13 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Building old Walthers passenger car > Denny, > > Thanks for the tip. I bought a tube this weekend and added it to my tool > kit. I also found a nice screw on cone shaped nozzle which will allow me > to place a thin bead of the stuff exactly where I want it. Did you have > any problem with it drying up in the tip or whatever it was you used? > > My friend Jim Kubajak and I were discussing what he used when recently > completing several JC Silver Sides cars. He passed this tip along to me: > > "Never heard of Barge but I guess it is another brand name for contact > cement. Although I have used Goo I had bought a can of Weldwood Contact > Cement millennia ago and have used it for those JC kits. I believe that I > have thinned it with Acetone or carbon tetrachloride." > > Jim is always mixing stuff. How he has not blown himself up yet is beyond > me but he does have some interesting hobby related concoctions I hope to > share in the future. > > Don, I had to laugh at you durability test. So how is that relationship > with your sister going these days? By they way, would really like to see > some pictures of those passenger cars. > > Now back to the shops, > Denny > Janitor in Training > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops > Sis & I don't see much of each other any more since there's a few miles between us, but whatever..... <G> As far as the cars I currently have, there's albums in the photos section on the club page, I put them at the end, they're all entitled "Zdon Dellmann's stuff.." and sorted by manufacturer. Also, I have "roster" photos of everything, vintage and current on my flickr page (link in my sig line). I did this to have a record for SWMBO if any thing should happen. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16599	From: Richard White	Date: 5/10/2011
Subject: Decals for the Nevada Northern RR

Hello- Does anyone know of a source for HO decals for the Nevada Northern RR? I realize that there are decals for a modern plug-door boxcar but I need a source for decals for the steam locos, rotary snowplow and the wrecking crane, among others. Thanks- Richard White

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16600	From: Denny Anspach	Date: 5/11/2011
Subject: Re: Building old Walthers passenger car

[Barge Cement] I bought a tube this weekend and added it to my tool kit. I also found a nice screw on cone shaped nozzle which will allow me to place a thin bead of the stuff exactly where I want it. Did you have  any problem with it drying up in the tip or whatever it was you used? Unfortunately, I do not think that this will work much beyond the first time you attempt to use it, unless you can effectively find a way of easily stoppering the screw-on nozzle.   The advantage of drilling a #60 hole in the middle of the OEM tube cap in order to apply tiny amounts of glue easily is that you do not have to remove the cap, and you can apply the cement immediately before it starts to thicken.   I use a specimen "T -pin" to stopper the hole (different pins have different diameters, and #60 provided a slip fit for the pin that I had at hand). Hat pins or similar would work just as well. Trying the same gambit on a cap of fresh GOO resulted in utter failure. The GOO simply could not be forced through such a small hole, perhaps because it starts setting up so quickly.  I used to try the add-on coned nozzles on the GOO tubes, and they did work for about one or two times.   I have now used Barge Cement for about ten years, and it surely is not "just another contact cement".  My bench experience is that the shelf life of an opened tube is about two years, less if care is not taken to keep the tube carefully stoppered.  More life can be expected if the tube is kept in a freezer (which I now do when we are gone for long periods of time).  I have yet to empty a tube. "Stringiness":  the bugaboo of all contact cements, but especially GOO.  Barge Cement is not immune to this if a given application is prolonged or delayed, but it is relatively "nothing" even then, as compared to GOO!  Eventually, with time and multiple uses and applications, enough solvent wicks off that stringiness becomes an issue, and that time I discard it- or save it only for gross applications. As mentioned, this occurs in my hands at about two years. Denny    Denny S. Anspach, MD Sacramento

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16601	From: Denny Anspach	Date: 5/11/2011
Subject: Re: A discussion of adhesives for build wood kits

Building a craft wood kit is one of the most pleasurable of tasks in our hobby, especially so with Ambroid, Northeastern, LaBelle or QualityCraft in that the resulting models are in scale, and can be finished to compete with the best standards of current resin models (and I have successfully done so). Even so, I have so many (many!) times seen at various shows fine craft wood models going begging for peanuts because of poor finishing and inexpert assembly- faults almost impossible to remedy in most instances. Most of these fatal faults seem to lie in three areas: no sealing of wood prior to painting; too much cellulose glue; and most commonly, and poor assembly. An unholy combination of all three is all to common. SEALING THE WOOD WITH SANDING SEALER: The sealing of wood right out of the box BEFORE kit assembly is a requirement for the consistent best work. It is only by doing this that it can be done easily and properly without filler piling up at joints, and large areas of wood fabrications becoming not amenable to being effectively sanded. Most importantly, sand-sealing all of the wood beforehand guarantees that when the final paint finish is applied, the final paint finish will be even (even!) without having to deal with usual patches, nooks, corners, and joints where sanding has been incomplete, grain filling has been ineffective, or the paint acting more like stain than paint. Even though the basswood has a very fine grain, this grain is still gross, even humongous, when it is multiplied 87 times to represent the prototype! The easiest way to fill the grain is with lacquer-based sanding sealer, a full-bodied clear lacquer with added talc as filler. As mentioned, multiple applications of clear lacquer, paint, or even shellac will work, but "multiple" is the operative term inasmuch as the grain still has to be *filled*. Sanding sealer is by far the easiest and fastest (and probably the cheapest). As mentioned this can be purchased at auto paint supply stores. Smaller amounts (more expensive, of course) can be purchased as "Hot Fuel Proof Sanding Sealer" (AeroGloss is a common brand) at R-C hobby stores. A little will go a long way (my large 8 oz ? bottle is now about 8 years old). Even though the grain is "filled", enough still will show through so that the underlying signature wood graining will be still very much evident, unless efforts are made by the modeler to completely erase that feature. Not the least important, sealing the wood all four- preferable six- sides prevents any possible warping caused by ambient moisture changes. SANDING THE WOOD: A common error right out of the box is to apply the sealer without sanding the wood first This simple effort with 250-350 grit paper takes down a lot of the raised grain that otherwise soaks up the sealer. applying the sanding sealer. After drying (several minutes), I sand again with 350/400 grit to remove what grain might have been raised, , inspect to see if grain is filled and wood smooth, apply another application if necessary, sand again, etc. 90% of time the first application is enough. Taking time to do all of this right out of the box before even thinking of assembly will pay off in spades each and every time. CEMENT: I no longer use cellulose cement (AMBROID, not longer available, I believe). The skilled modeler can indeed use it so that not a single bit of the glue is pushed out of the joints, but that is hard for most of us to do (more kits have been spoiled with inexpert use of this glue than have ever been actually completed, IMHO!). PVA or white glues: The lifesaver glue for these kits has been PVA or white glue. It is a glue type just made for wood (painted or not), is relatively slow setting, is strong enough, dries clear, and best of all- it can be easily and effectively cleaned up with water as you go (I keep a custard cup of water with a bunch of Q-tips at the ready). Although I sometimes use ordinary Elmer's, more commonly I use either Microscale Krystal Clear or Pacer Canopy Glue (R-C stores). These latter two products seem to be the same, and are apparently a type of PVA glue with a thinner more easily-applied consistency than Elmer's or similar (they are NOT just thinned Elmer's!). Again, if the wood has already been effectively sealed, the glue will not soak into the grain in places where it is difficult to clean up! When kits are built in this way- with fully pre-filled and sanded wood, and with white glue- the final result can be spectacular. Joints are sharply delineated and *clean* without glue fillets or smears, and the car itself finishes with a beautiful even surface- usually chosen to be flat , but even with the gloss finish expected on the passenger cars (or freshly painted freight cars!). Yellow Glue: This too works well, but offers no advantage over white glue, and one disadvantage: it can set up too fast for easy cleanup and accurate final adjustment. Recently, I have been building some craft laser-cut wood building kits, and some of these manufacturers are pushing the use of yellow glue; and the experience described is exactly what I experienced when I followed their directions. Back to white glue. Side Notes: Craft wood models built with cellulose glue can be "re-kitted" if necessary, by simply tossing them into an acetone bath. You will lose all paint, of course, and all applied plastic items (unless removed first). I have done just this with an inexpertly-built LaBelle caboose, which I then successfully rebuilt (as we speak, it is in the line of cabooses waiting for assignment on the caboose track!). A cautionary note is that unless you keep track of the many parts that will be popping to the surface of the bath, and/or have the original instruction sheet, you may just end up with a pile of sticks without a clue as to how to put them back together. Theoretically, you could do the same with craft models assembled with white glue. However, white glue is only water-resistant, not really water-soluable, and the damage to the wood in the process might be irreversible. Enough for today! Denny Denny S. Anspach, MD Sacramento

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16602	From: Glenn	Date: 5/11/2011
Subject: Re: A discussion of adhesives for build wood kits

Interesting comments. I suppose that sealing the wood prevents warping with water based glues--I built several LaBelle On3 passenger cars in the 1980's and had a bad experience with warping. Fortunately was able to weight down the sides and corrected the problem--then read the part of the instructions that said not tro use white glue. gj -----Original Message----- From: Denny Anspach Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:19 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Re: A discussion of adhesives for build wood kits Building a craft wood kit is one of the most pleasurable of tasks in our hobby, especially so with Ambroid, Northeastern, LaBelle or QualityCraft in that the resulting models are in scale, and can be finished to compete with the best standards of current resin models (and I have successfully done so). Even so, I have so many (many!) times seen at various shows fine craft wood models going begging for peanuts because of poor finishing and inexpert assembly- faults almost impossible to remedy in most instances. Most of these fatal faults seem to lie in three areas: no sealing of wood prior to painting; too much cellulose glue; and most commonly, and poor assembly. An unholy combination of all three is all to common. SEALING THE WOOD WITH SANDING SEALER: The sealing of wood right out of the box BEFORE kit assembly is a requirement for the consistent best work. It is only by doing this that it can be done easily and properly without filler piling up at joints, and large areas of wood fabrications becoming not amenable to being effectively sanded. Most importantly, sand-sealing all of the wood beforehand guarantees that when the final paint finish is applied, the final paint finish will be even (even!) without having to deal with usual patches, nooks, corners, and joints where sanding has been incomplete, grain filling has been ineffective, or the paint acting more like stain than paint. Even though the basswood has a very fine grain, this grain is still gross, even humongous, when it is multiplied 87 times to represent the prototype! The easiest way to fill the grain is with lacquer-based sanding sealer, a full-bodied clear lacquer with added talc as filler. As mentioned, multiple applications of clear lacquer, paint, or even shellac will work, but "multiple" is the operative term inasmuch as the grain still has to be *filled*. Sanding sealer is by far the easiest and fastest (and probably the cheapest). As mentioned this can be purchased at auto paint supply stores. Smaller amounts (more expensive, of course) can be purchased as "Hot Fuel Proof Sanding Sealer" (AeroGloss is a common brand) at R-C hobby stores. A little will go a long way (my large 8 oz ? bottle is now about 8 years old). Even though the grain is "filled", enough still will show through so that the underlying signature wood graining will be still very much evident, unless efforts are made by the modeler to completely erase that feature. Not the least important, sealing the wood all four- preferable six- sides prevents any possible warping caused by ambient moisture changes. SANDING THE WOOD: A common error right out of the box is to apply the sealer without sanding the wood first This simple effort with 250-350 grit paper takes down a lot of the raised grain that otherwise soaks up the sealer. applying the sanding sealer. After drying (several minutes), I sand again with 350/400 grit to remove what grain might have been raised, , inspect to see if grain is filled and wood smooth, apply another application if necessary, sand again, etc. 90% of time the first application is enough. Taking time to do all of this right out of the box before even thinking of assembly will pay off in spades each and every time. CEMENT: I no longer use cellulose cement (AMBROID, not longer available, I believe). The skilled modeler can indeed use it so that not a single bit of the glue is pushed out of the joints, but that is hard for most of us to do (more kits have been spoiled with inexpert use of this glue than have ever been actually completed, IMHO!). PVA or white glues: The lifesaver glue for these kits has been PVA or white glue. It is a glue type just made for wood (painted or not), is relatively slow setting, is strong enough, dries clear, and best of all- it can be easily and effectively cleaned up with water as you go (I keep a custard cup of water with a bunch of Q-tips at the ready). Although I sometimes use ordinary Elmer's, more commonly I use either Microscale Krystal Clear or Pacer Canopy Glue (R-C stores). These latter two products seem to be the same, and are apparently a type of PVA glue with a thinner more easily-applied consistency than Elmer's or similar (they are NOT just thinned Elmer's!). Again, if the wood has already been effectively sealed, the glue will not soak into the grain in places where it is difficult to clean up! When kits are built in this way- with fully pre-filled and sanded wood, and with white glue- the final result can be spectacular. Joints are sharply delineated and *clean* without glue fillets or smears, and the car itself finishes with a beautiful even surface- usually chosen to be flat , but even with the gloss finish expected on the passenger cars (or freshly painted freight cars!). Yellow Glue: This too works well, but offers no advantage over white glue, and one disadvantage: it can set up too fast for easy cleanup and accurate final adjustment. Recently, I have been building some craft laser-cut wood building kits, and some of these manufacturers are pushing the use of yellow glue; and the experience described is exactly what I experienced when I followed their directions. Back to white glue. Side Notes: Craft wood models built with cellulose glue can be "re-kitted" if necessary, by simply tossing them into an acetone bath. You will lose all paint, of course, and all applied plastic items (unless removed first). I have done just this with an inexpertly-built LaBelle caboose, which I then successfully rebuilt (as we speak, it is in the line of cabooses waiting for assignment on the caboose track!). A cautionary note is that unless you keep track of the many parts that will be popping to the surface of the bath, and/or have the original instruction sheet, you may just end up with a pile of sticks without a clue as to how to put them back together. Theoretically, you could do the same with craft models assembled with white glue. However, white glue is only water-resistant, not really water-soluable, and the damage to the wood in the process might be irreversible. Enough for today! Denny Denny S. Anspach, MD Sacramento ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16603	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 5/11/2011
Subject: Re: A discussion of adhesives for build wood kits

Hmmm, that just plain doesn't sound right.  I have never heard to not use white glue on wooden models.  I have been using Yellow (aliphatic resin) glue for many years now, but back in the 1970's, I built all of my models with good ole Elmers white glue.  In fact, I built a Quality Craft Triple decker auto carrier and it is still perfect.  It did not have the benefit of air conditioning until the mid 1980's either, so it was exposed to the very humid Michigan weather and still is great.  I have lots of models built with Elmers white glue and they are happily running around the rails even today after 40 years or longer.  The truth is that most warping I have seen has occurred prior to building the models.  These are not easy to correct either, but you can work at them and fix them as well.  Also, in the past, I did not use a sealer prior to building, but I suppose I was lucky that the wood was very smooth to begin with and my working on the kits didn't make the wood worse.  Recently, I have picked up several wood kits, including some Labelle boxcars and a caboose.  The floors are already warped and I will need to un-warp them before starting construction.  Also, my recent acquisitions of a couple of Ambroid kits have yielded some with very rough wood, so I have definitely taken to sealing them with several coats prior to actual construction, because these parts definitely needed it.  I find that during scratchbuilding or building kits with good smooth wood, I generally don't feel the need to seal the wood, but that works ok for me.  Here are a couple of my scratchbuilt cars with no sanding sealer prior to construction.  Oh, I do use very fine sandpaper as needed. http://www.railroad-line.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=24682&whichpage=1 Just scroll down toward the bottom to see a couple I built. Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: glenn476@... Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 10:28:19 -0700 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: A discussion of adhesives for build wood kits   Interesting comments. I suppose that sealing the wood prevents warping with water based glues--I built several LaBelle On3 passenger cars in the 1980's and had a bad experience with warping. Fortunately was able to weight down the sides and corrected the problem--then read the part of the instructions that said not tro use white glue. gj -----Original Message----- From: Denny Anspach Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:19 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Re: A discussion of adhesives for build wood kits Building a craft wood kit is one of the most pleasurable of tasks in our hobby, especially so with Ambroid, Northeastern, LaBelle or QualityCraft in that the resulting models are in scale, and can be finished to compete with the best standards of current resin models (and I have successfully done so). Even so, I have so many (many!) times seen at various shows fine craft wood models going begging for peanuts because of poor finishing and inexpert assembly- faults almost impossible to remedy in most instances. Most of these fatal faults seem to lie in three areas: no sealing of wood prior to painting; too much cellulose glue; and most commonly, and poor assembly. An unholy combination of all three is all to common. SEALING THE WOOD WITH SANDING SEALER: The sealing of wood right out of the box BEFORE kit assembly is a requirement for the consistent best work. It is only by doing this that it can be done easily and properly without filler piling up at joints, and large areas of wood fabrications becoming not amenable to being effectively sanded. Most importantly, sand-sealing all of the wood beforehand guarantees that when the final paint finish is applied, the final paint finish will be even (even!) without having to deal with usual patches, nooks, corners, and joints where sanding has been incomplete, grain filling has been ineffective, or the paint acting more like stain than paint. Even though the basswood has a very fine grain, this grain is still gross, even humongous, when it is multiplied 87 times to represent the prototype! The easiest way to fill the grain is with lacquer-based sanding sealer, a full-bodied clear lacquer with added talc as filler. As mentioned, multiple applications of clear lacquer, paint, or even shellac will work, but "multiple" is the operative term inasmuch as the grain still has to be *filled*. Sanding sealer is by far the easiest and fastest (and probably the cheapest). As mentioned this can be purchased at auto paint supply stores. Smaller amounts (more expensive, of course) can be purchased as "Hot Fuel Proof Sanding Sealer" (AeroGloss is a common brand) at R-C hobby stores. A little will go a long way (my large 8 oz ? bottle is now about 8 years old). Even though the grain is "filled", enough still will show through so that the underlying signature wood graining will be still very much evident, unless efforts are made by the modeler to completely erase that feature. Not the least important, sealing the wood all four- preferable six- sides prevents any possible warping caused by ambient moisture changes. SANDING THE WOOD: A common error right out of the box is to apply the sealer without sanding the wood first This simple effort with 250-350 grit paper takes down a lot of the raised grain that otherwise soaks up the sealer. applying the sanding sealer. After drying (several minutes), I sand again with 350/400 grit to remove what grain might have been raised, , inspect to see if grain is filled and wood smooth, apply another application if necessary, sand again, etc. 90% of time the first application is enough. Taking time to do all of this right out of the box before even thinking of assembly will pay off in spades each and every time. CEMENT: I no longer use cellulose cement (AMBROID, not longer available, I believe). The skilled modeler can indeed use it so that not a single bit of the glue is pushed out of the joints, but that is hard for most of us to do (more kits have been spoiled with inexpert use of this glue than have ever been actually completed, IMHO!). PVA or white glues: The lifesaver glue for these kits has been PVA or white glue. It is a glue type just made for wood (painted or not), is relatively slow setting, is strong enough, dries clear, and best of all- it can be easily and effectively cleaned up with water as you go (I keep a custard cup of water with a bunch of Q-tips at the ready). Although I sometimes use ordinary Elmer's, more commonly I use either Microscale Krystal Clear or Pacer Canopy Glue (R-C stores). These latter two products seem to be the same, and are apparently a type of PVA glue with a thinner more easily-applied consistency than Elmer's or similar (they are NOT just thinned Elmer's!). Again, if the wood has already been effectively sealed, the glue will not soak into the grain in places where it is difficult to clean up! When kits are built in this way- with fully pre-filled and sanded wood, and with white glue- the final result can be spectacular. Joints are sharply delineated and *clean* without glue fillets or smears, and the car itself finishes with a beautiful even surface- usually chosen to be flat , but even with the gloss finish expected on the passenger cars (or freshly painted freight cars!). Yellow Glue: This too works well, but offers no advantage over white glue, and one disadvantage: it can set up too fast for easy cleanup and accurate final adjustment. Recently, I have been building some craft laser-cut wood building kits, and some of these manufacturers are pushing the use of yellow glue; and the experience described is exactly what I experienced when I followed their directions. Back to white glue. Side Notes: Craft wood models built with cellulose glue can be "re-kitted" if necessary, by simply tossing them into an acetone bath. You will lose all paint, of course, and all applied plastic items (unless removed first). I have done just this with an inexpertly-built LaBelle caboose, which I then successfully rebuilt (as we speak, it is in the line of cabooses waiting for assignment on the caboose track!). A cautionary note is that unless you keep track of the many parts that will be popping to the surface of the bath, and/or have the original instruction sheet, you may just end up with a pile of sticks without a clue as to how to put them back together. Theoretically, you could do the same with craft models assembled with white glue. However, white glue is only water-resistant, not really water-soluable, and the damage to the wood in the process might be irreversible. Enough for today! Denny Denny S. Anspach, MD Sacramento ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16604	From: Carl Neste	Date: 5/11/2011
Subject: Re: A discussion of adhesives for build wood kits

Attachments : That’s a really great write-up, Denny. I have a few questions. 1.       What adhesive would you recommend using to fasten cast metal ends to the basic wooden box? I’m building 2 BevBel boxcars. I had planned on using epoxy, but I’m certainly open to suggestions and recommendations. 2.       Is it sacrilegious to replace parts in the original kits with more modern (and accurate) counterparts, such as brake rigging, ladders, roof walks, etc. Carl   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Denny Anspach Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 11:20 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Re: A discussion of adhesives for build wood kits     Building a craft wood kit is one of the most pleasurable of tasks in our hobby, especially so with Ambroid, Northeastern, LaBelle or QualityCraft in that the resulting models are in scale, and can be finished to compete with the best standards of current resin models (and I have successfully done so). Even so, I have so many (many!) times seen at various shows fine craft wood models going begging for peanuts because of poor finishing and inexpert assembly- faults almost impossible to remedy in most instances. Most of these fatal faults seem to lie in three areas: no sealing of wood prior to painting; too much cellulose glue; and most commonly, and poor assembly. An unholy combination of all three is all to common. SEALING THE WOOD WITH SANDING SEALER: The sealing of wood right out of the box BEFORE kit assembly is a requirement for the consistent best work. It is only by doing this that it can be done easily and properly without filler piling up at joints, and large areas of wood fabrications becoming not amenable to being effectively sanded. Most importantly, sand-sealing all of the wood beforehand guarantees that when the final paint finish is applied, the final paint finish will be even (even!) without having to deal with usual patches, nooks, corners, and joints where sanding has been incomplete, grain filling has been ineffective, or the paint acting more like stain than paint. Even though the basswood has a very fine grain, this grain is still gross, even humongous, when it is multiplied 87 times to represent the prototype! The easiest way to fill the grain is with lacquer-based sanding sealer, a full-bodied clear lacquer with added talc as filler. As mentioned, multiple applications of clear lacquer, paint, or even shellac will work, but "multiple" is the operative term inasmuch as the grain still has to be *filled*. Sanding sealer is by far the easiest and fastest (and probably the cheapest). As mentioned this can be purchased at auto paint supply stores. Smaller amounts (more expensive, of course) can be purchased as "Hot Fuel Proof Sanding Sealer" (AeroGloss is a common brand) at R-C hobby stores. A little will go a long way (my large 8 oz ? bottle is now about 8 years old). Even though the grain is "filled", enough still will show through so that the underlying signature wood graining will be still very much evident, unless efforts are made by the modeler to completely erase that feature. Not the least important, sealing the wood all four- preferable six- sides prevents any possible warping caused by ambient moisture changes. SANDING THE WOOD: A common error right out of the box is to apply the sealer without sanding the wood first This simple effort with 250-350 grit paper takes down a lot of the raised grain that otherwise soaks up the sealer. applying the sanding sealer. After drying (several minutes), I sand again with 350/400 grit to remove what grain might have been raised, , inspect to see if grain is filled and wood smooth, apply another application if necessary, sand again, etc. 90% of time the first application is enough. Taking time to do all of this right out of the box before even thinking of assembly will pay off in spades each and every time. CEMENT: I no longer use cellulose cement (AMBROID, not longer available, I believe). The skilled modeler can indeed use it so that not a single bit of the glue is pushed out of the joints, but that is hard for most of us to do (more kits have been spoiled with inexpert use of this glue than have ever been actually completed, IMHO!). PVA or white glues: The lifesaver glue for these kits has been PVA or white glue. It is a glue type just made for wood (painted or not), is relatively slow setting, is strong enough, dries clear, and best of all- it can be easily and effectively cleaned up with water as you go (I keep a custard cup of water with a bunch of Q-tips at the ready). Although I sometimes use ordinary Elmer's, more commonly I use either Microscale Krystal Clear or Pacer Canopy Glue (R-C stores). These latter two products seem to be the same, and are apparently a type of PVA glue with a thinner more easily-applied consistency than Elmer's or similar (they are NOT just thinned Elmer's!). Again, if the wood has already been effectively sealed, the glue will not soak into the grain in places where it is difficult to clean up! When kits are built in this way- with fully pre-filled and sanded wood, and with white glue- the final result can be spectacular. Joints are sharply delineated and *clean* without glue fillets or smears, and the car itself finishes with a beautiful even surface- usually chosen to be flat , but even with the gloss finish expected on the passenger cars (or freshly painted freight cars!). Yellow Glue: This too works well, but offers no advantage over white glue, and one disadvantage: it can set up too fast for easy cleanup and accurate final adjustment. Recently, I have been building some craft laser-cut wood building kits, and some of these manufacturers are pushing the use of yellow glue; and the experience described is exactly what I experienced when I followed their directions. Back to white glue. Side Notes: Craft wood models built with cellulose glue can be "re-kitted" if necessary, by simply tossing them into an acetone bath. You will lose all paint, of course, and all applied plastic items (unless removed first). I have done just this with an inexpertly-built LaBelle caboose, which I then successfully rebuilt (as we speak, it is in the line of cabooses waiting for assignment on the caboose track!). A cautionary note is that unless you keep track of the many parts that will be popping to the surface of the bath, and/or have the original instruction sheet, you may just end up with a pile of sticks without a clue as to how to put them back together. Theoretically, you could do the same with craft models assembled with white glue. However, white glue is only water-resistant, not really water-soluable, and the damage to the wood in the process might be irreversible. Enough for today! Denny Denny S. Anspach, MD Sacramento

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16605	From: cwrailman	Date: 5/11/2011
Subject: Re: A discussion of adhesives for build wood kits

I see that this original post has brough out some additional comments. One thing I would like to clear up. The key word in my friends explanation of why he and I use Ambroid for wood kits is bonding. In our experience when you use white glue on sealed surfaces there is little to no bonding action. You basically have a layer of glue sandwiched between two smooth surfaces. There is little to no tooth for the glue to adhere to so such joints are similar to gluing two smooth pieces of plastic together and we know that besides some degree of surface adhesion, white glue does not work well for that. For those of you familiar with welding that is like having a cold weld. In fact when using white glue on basswood you get little penetrating action even if the wood is not sealed. That is why many modelers use a thinned down version of the yellow carpenters glue. Among other characteristics it has better penetrating properties. The main benefit to using white glue is that it stays reasonably flexible for much of it's life. It is a good adhesive for certain applications. As Jimmy explains in using the Ambroid glue/sanding sealer combination, the two are chemically compatible, which is our main point, and a strong bond is created which goes beyond the surface adhesion capabilities of water based white glues. Since the sanding sealer, if properly applied, has permeated the wood using Ambroid results in the strongest type of bond that can be created. Such bonds are similar to a good weld of metal components where the weld material alters the properties of the metal and becomes stronger than the materials it is welding together. Another reason we prefer the Ambroid is that white glue is water based and when the water evaporates the glue does not shrink nearly as much as Ambroid. As Ambroid shrinks, it makes the joint tighter over a period of time. As with any glued joint, clamping of components during the gluing process is strongly recommended when at all possible. Anyone who has attempted to use Ambroid as a joint filler can attest that over a period of time it will shrink and pull the two components together. I experienced this when gluing a loading dock to a building. The dock was not exactly flush with the building and as the glue dried and shrunk it actually reshaped the loading dock header board to the shape of the building thus pulling the dock into a skew I did not intend. Ambroid was originally formulated as a boat glue so it is reasonably impervious to water or humid conditions. I know that various forms of white glues are being pushed by many of the kit manufactures. They are inexpensive, readily available and have little to no odor. Many modelers use them which is OK for certain applications. Glue selection is basically a modelers choice and is based on their particular experience and preference. If it works and you're satisfied with the end result that is all that matters. The point we are making is that if all the products used in building a model, in this case, sanding sealer, body putty, and glue are all compatible with one another and work together to bond dissimilar as well as similar materials the end result will be a cleaner, stronger, well built model. Now back to the shops, Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "cwrailman" <cwrailman@...> wrote: > > Some time ago I was discussing glues and adhesives with my friend Jim Kubajak. Jim likes to mix things and is still alive to talk about it. Here, in his own words are some of the concoctions he uses. Jim and I both use Ambroid as our base cement for wood work but he takes it a few steps further. Greg you have probably been exposed to some of this. > > "Yes, I have been mating dissimilar materials and have had good results in doing so. To reach this point I have made several chemical discoveries that have lead me to this bonding idea. > > OK, you know that I am a great believer in sealing any wood that I use for my construction (especially those LaBelle kits). What I use is Lacquer Sanding Sealer. I buy it by the quart and the key is that it thins with Lacquer Thinner. In doing one of those many wood clerestory roofs you know that one way I archive a smooth finish is by applying 5 to 7 coats, sanding with steel wool between coats. > > Note: A thick coat of lacquer sealer will glue two pieces of wood together. Like when I discovered that the lacquer stirring stick stuck to the wood table surface. > > You have probably discovered from my construction photos ( see the photos I posted in the VintageHO CWRailman –FRL photo folder) that I do use an auto body putty to fill in holes, seams and grain in the wood. I have been working from a big tube of Green Magic body putty for eons. Usually, the putty from the tube is too stiff for my use. So I thin it with acetone to a consistency that can be brushed on to wood surfaces. This works but it usually dries too quickly for my purposes. So somewhere along the line I married body putty + lacquer sanding sealer and it gave me brush-ability plus a longer drying time = a smoother finish. > > Note: I use MEK to dissolve similar plastics and not so similar plastics together. > > OK, I discovered that lacquer sanding sealer when hard-dry will dissolve with MEK. So if I want to make a plastic or styrene part to adhere to a finished roof all I had to do was to apply a small amount of MEK to the joint between the two dissimilar parts and voila, they stuck (read dissolved) to each other. Acetone will work in place of MEK but I like MEK; it is more volatile. > > Now you know that Ambroid glue is easily dissolved with acetone. When my Ambroid gets thick I thin it with acetone. As a mater of fact I keep different bottles of Ambroid thinned to various consistencies. You probably can use MEK to thin Ambroid but it is to volatile. Ambroid when applied to a lacquer finish bonds quite well." > > In addition to that conversation with Jim I also found this to be an interesting discussion of adhesives: > http://www.modelrailcast.com/ShowNotes/Show130.asp > > Now back to the shops, > Denny > Janitor in Training > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16606	From: cwrailman	Date: 5/11/2011
Subject: Re: A discussion of adhesives for build wood kits

Vic, Nice work on those cars. I like the ACL car. In the other sequence of images it looks like you are successfully combining dissimilar materials to get the different surfaces you want. Wood for the textured wood surfaces and plastic to represent the metal surfaces. In this case you might not need sanding sealer because the paint you apply will seal the wood to some degree. Now back to the shops, Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> wrote: > > > Hmmm, that just plain doesn't sound right. > I have never heard to not use white glue on wooden models. I have been using Yellow (aliphatic resin) glue for many years now, but back in the 1970's, I built all of my models with good ole Elmers white glue. In fact, I built a Quality Craft Triple decker auto carrier and it is still perfect. It did not have the benefit of air conditioning until the mid 1980's either, so it was exposed to the very humid Michigan weather and still is great. I have lots of models built with Elmers white glue and they are happily running around the rails even today after 40 years or longer. > The truth is that most warping I have seen has occurred prior to building the models. These are not easy to correct either, but you can work at them and fix them as well. Also, in the past, I did not use a sealer prior to building, but I suppose I was lucky that the wood was very smooth to begin with and my working on the kits didn't make the wood worse. Recently, I have picked up several wood kits, including some Labelle boxcars and a caboose. The floors are already warped and I will need to un-warp them before starting construction. Also, my recent acquisitions of a couple of Ambroid kits have yielded some with very rough wood, so I have definitely taken to sealing them with several coats prior to actual construction, because these parts definitely needed it. I find that during scratchbuilding or building kits with good smooth wood, I generally don't feel the need to seal the wood, but that works ok for me. Here are a couple of my scratchbuilt cars with no sanding sealer prior to construction. Oh, I do use very fine sandpaper as needed. > http://www.railroad-line.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=24682&whichpage=1 > Just scroll down toward the bottom to see a couple I built. > Vic Bitleris > Raleigh, NC > > > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > From: glenn476@... > Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 10:28:19 -0700 > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: A discussion of adhesives for build wood kits > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Interesting comments. I suppose that sealing the wood prevents warping with > > water based glues--I built several LaBelle On3 passenger cars in the 1980's > > and had a bad experience with warping. Fortunately was able to weight down > > the sides and corrected the problem--then read the part of the instructions > > that said not tro use white glue. gj > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Denny Anspach > > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:19 AM > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: A discussion of adhesives for build wood kits > > > > Building a craft wood kit is one of the most pleasurable of tasks in our > > hobby, especially so with Ambroid, Northeastern, LaBelle or QualityCraft in > > that the resulting models are in scale, and can be finished to compete with > > the best standards of current resin models (and I have successfully done > > so). > > > > Even so, I have so many (many!) times seen at various shows fine craft wood > > models going begging for peanuts because of poor finishing and inexpert > > assembly- faults almost impossible to remedy in most instances. Most of > > these fatal faults seem to lie in three areas: no sealing of wood prior to > > painting; too much cellulose glue; and most commonly, and poor assembly. > > An unholy combination of all three is all to common. > > > > SEALING THE WOOD WITH SANDING SEALER: The sealing of wood right out of the > > box BEFORE kit assembly is a requirement for the consistent best work. It is > > only by doing this that it can be done easily and properly without filler > > piling up at joints, and large areas of wood fabrications becoming not > > amenable to being effectively sanded. Most importantly, sand-sealing all of > > the wood beforehand guarantees that when the final paint finish is applied, > > the final paint finish will be even (even!) without having to deal with > > usual patches, nooks, corners, and joints where sanding has been incomplete, > > grain filling has been ineffective, or the paint acting more like stain than > > paint. > > > > Even though the basswood has a very fine grain, this grain is still gross, > > even humongous, when it is multiplied 87 times to represent the prototype! > > The easiest way to fill the grain is with lacquer-based sanding sealer, a > > full-bodied clear lacquer with added talc as filler. As mentioned, multiple > > applications of clear lacquer, paint, or even shellac will work, but > > "multiple" is the operative term inasmuch as the grain still has to be > > *filled*. Sanding sealer is by far the easiest and fastest (and probably the > > cheapest). As mentioned this can be purchased at auto paint supply stores. > > Smaller amounts (more expensive, of course) can be purchased as "Hot Fuel > > Proof Sanding Sealer" (AeroGloss is a common brand) at R-C hobby stores. > > > > A little will go a long way (my large 8 oz ? bottle is now about 8 years > > old). > > > > Even though the grain is "filled", enough still will show through so that > > the underlying signature wood graining will be still very much evident, > > unless efforts are made by the modeler to completely erase that feature. > > > > Not the least important, sealing the wood all four- preferable six- sides > > prevents any possible warping caused by ambient moisture changes. > > > > SANDING THE WOOD: A common error right out of the box is to apply the sealer > > without sanding the wood first This simple effort with 250-350 grit paper > > takes down a lot of the raised grain that otherwise soaks up the sealer. > > applying the sanding sealer. After drying (several minutes), I sand again > > with 350/400 grit to remove what grain might have been raised, , inspect to > > see if grain is filled and wood smooth, apply another application if > > necessary, sand again, etc. 90% of time the first application is enough. > > Taking time to do all of this right out of the box before even thinking of > > assembly will pay off in spades each and every time. > > > > CEMENT: I no longer use cellulose cement (AMBROID, not longer available, I > > believe). The skilled modeler can indeed use it so that not a single bit of > > the glue is pushed out of the joints, but that is hard for most of us to do > > (more kits have been spoiled with inexpert use of this glue than have ever > > been actually completed, IMHO!). > > > > PVA or white glues: The lifesaver glue for these kits has been PVA or white > > glue. It is a glue type just made for wood (painted or not), is relatively > > slow setting, is strong enough, dries clear, and best of all- it can be > > easily and effectively cleaned up with water as you go (I keep a custard cup > > of water with a bunch of Q-tips at the ready). Although I sometimes use > > ordinary Elmer's, more commonly I use either Microscale Krystal Clear or > > Pacer Canopy Glue (R-C stores). These latter two products seem to be the > > same, and are apparently a type of PVA glue with a thinner more > > easily-applied consistency than Elmer's or similar (they are NOT just > > thinned Elmer's!). > > > > Again, if the wood has already been effectively sealed, the glue will not > > soak into the grain in places where it is difficult to clean up! > > > > When kits are built in this way- with fully pre-filled and sanded wood, and > > with white glue- the final result can be spectacular. Joints are sharply > > delineated and *clean* without glue fillets or smears, and the car itself > > finishes with a beautiful even surface- usually chosen to be flat , but even > > with the gloss finish expected on the passenger cars (or freshly painted > > freight cars!). > > > > Yellow Glue: This too works well, but offers no advantage over white glue, > > and one disadvantage: it can set up too fast for easy cleanup and accurate > > final adjustment. Recently, I have been building some craft laser-cut wood > > building kits, and some of these manufacturers are pushing the use of yellow > > glue; and the experience described is exactly what I experienced when I > > followed their directions. Back to white glue. > > > > Side Notes: Craft wood models built with cellulose glue can be "re-kitted" > > if necessary, by simply tossing them into an acetone bath. You will lose > > all paint, of course, and all applied plastic items (unless removed first). > > I have done just this with an inexpertly-built LaBelle caboose, which I then > > successfully rebuilt (as we speak, it is in the line of cabooses waiting for > > assignment on the caboose track!). A cautionary note is that unless you > > keep track of the many parts that will be popping to the surface of the > > bath, and/or have the original instruction sheet, you may just end up with a > > pile of sticks without a clue as to how to put them back together. > > > > Theoretically, you could do the same with craft models assembled with white > > glue. However, white glue is only water-resistant, not really > > water-soluable, and the damage to the wood in the process might be > > irreversible. > > > > Enough for today! > > > > Denny > > > > Denny S. Anspach, MD > > Sacramento > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16607	From: Rick Jones	Date: 5/11/2011
Subject: Re: A discussion of adhesives for build wood kits

On 5/11/2011 2:53 PM, Carl Neste wrote: > > 2.Is it sacrilegious to replace parts in the original kits with more > modern (and accurate) counterparts, such as brake rigging, ladders, roof > walks, etc. Your hobby. Your toy...er, kits. Your choice. Ain't nobody got a right to tell you how you *have to* do it. -- Rick Jones Why are they called apartments when they are all stuck together?

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16608	From: Nelson	Date: 5/11/2011
Subject: Re: AHM Brass

"On the Pacific the rear set of drivers were into the firebox which you'll see on the the one listed in the link I posted." That would keep ice off the drivers. Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "cwrailman" <cwrailman@...> wrote: > > Yep Nelson, your correct! > > I was off a bit on the importing date. I looked it up and the hybrid Brass/Zamic AHM models were imported in the mid to late 1970's. According to the brass book they were manufactured by Mizuno and the book calls them poor runners and goes on to list some of the defects. On the Pacific the rear set of drivers were into the firebox which you'll see on the the one listed in the link I posted. > > Time to open the shop doors, > > Denny > Janitor in Training > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16609	From: cwrailman	Date: 5/11/2011
Subject: Re: A discussion of adhesives for build wood kits

I'll second that. Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Rick Jones <r.t.jones@...> wrote: > > On 5/11/2011 2:53 PM, Carl Neste wrote: > > > > 2.Is it sacrilegious to replace parts in the original kits with more > > modern (and accurate) counterparts, such as brake rigging, ladders, roof > > walks, etc. > > Your hobby. Your toy...er, kits. Your choice. Ain't nobody got a > right to tell you how you *have to* do it. > > -- > > Rick Jones > > Why are they called apartments when they are all stuck together? >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16610	From: docdenny34	Date: 5/11/2011
Subject: Re: A discussion of adhesives for build wood kits

Please see interspersed comments below. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Carl Neste" <cmneste@...> wrote: > > That's a really great write-up, Denny. I have a few questions. > > 1. What adhesive would you recommend using to fasten cast metal ends > to the basic wooden box? I'm building 2 BevBel boxcars. I had planned on > using epoxy, but I'm certainly open to suggestions and recommendations. Probably the easiest cement to use is a contact cement, and that is what I would use. Epoxy would be overkill and less easy to use, as would gap-filling ACC, but would also work. > > 2. Is it sacrilegious to replace parts in the original kits with more > modern (and accurate) counterparts, such as brake rigging, ladders, roof > walks, etc. If you are building the model as a fine example of how just that kit would have been built at the time produced, then stick with only the original OEM parts (I do this when building most, but not all ancient kits such as a recent and rare Varney reefer R-5 of c. 1936-8). If you are more interested in finishing the kit as a fine scale model, then go for fine replacement and/or added detail items. I do the latter with all the craft wood kits built over the past 20 years or so. In the interests of historical preservation, however, I do try to alter or improve the kit-supplied detailing to the deemed higher standards, if I am able to do so. Contrary to my efforts above with a more rare R-5 Varney reefer, I have also done just the opposite with the much more commonly available Varney Reefer R-2, where I replaced just about all the detailing, added a lot more details, and fabricated a fully detailed exposed underframe with full brake gear. I did this simply to demonstrate to skeptics that a lot of the early car kits have such inherent basic high quality in both scale dimension and appearance that with better applied detailing, etc. they too can still hold their own with fine current models, or even better them. Denny Denny S. Anspach, MD Sacramento > > Carl > > > > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf > Of Denny Anspach > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 11:20 AM > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: A discussion of adhesives for build wood kits > > > > > > Building a craft wood kit is one of the most pleasurable of tasks in our > hobby, especially so with Ambroid, Northeastern, LaBelle or QualityCraft in > that the resulting models are in scale, and can be finished to compete with > the best standards of current resin models (and I have successfully done > so). > > Even so, I have so many (many!) times seen at various shows fine craft wood > models going begging for peanuts because of poor finishing and inexpert > assembly- faults almost impossible to remedy in most instances. Most of > these fatal faults seem to lie in three areas: no sealing of wood prior to > painting; too much cellulose glue; and most commonly, and poor assembly. An > unholy combination of all three is all to common. > > SEALING THE WOOD WITH SANDING SEALER: The sealing of wood right out of the > box BEFORE kit assembly is a requirement for the consistent best work. It is > only by doing this that it can be done easily and properly without filler > piling up at joints, and large areas of wood fabrications becoming not > amenable to being effectively sanded. Most importantly, sand-sealing all of > the wood beforehand guarantees that when the final paint finish is applied, > the final paint finish will be even (even!) without having to deal with > usual patches, nooks, corners, and joints where sanding has been incomplete, > grain filling has been ineffective, or the paint acting more like stain than > paint. > > Even though the basswood has a very fine grain, this grain is still gross, > even humongous, when it is multiplied 87 times to represent the prototype! > The easiest way to fill the grain is with lacquer-based sanding sealer, a > full-bodied clear lacquer with added talc as filler. As mentioned, multiple > applications of clear lacquer, paint, or even shellac will work, but > "multiple" is the operative term inasmuch as the grain still has to be > *filled*. Sanding sealer is by far the easiest and fastest (and probably the > cheapest). As mentioned this can be purchased at auto paint supply stores. > Smaller amounts (more expensive, of course) can be purchased as "Hot Fuel > Proof Sanding Sealer" (AeroGloss is a common brand) at R-C hobby stores. > > A little will go a long way (my large 8 oz ? bottle is now about 8 years > old). > > Even though the grain is "filled", enough still will show through so that > the underlying signature wood graining will be still very much evident, > unless efforts are made by the modeler to completely erase that feature. > > Not the least important, sealing the wood all four- preferable six- sides > prevents any possible warping caused by ambient moisture changes. > > SANDING THE WOOD: A common error right out of the box is to apply the sealer > without sanding the wood first This simple effort with 250-350 grit paper > takes down a lot of the raised grain that otherwise soaks up the sealer. > applying the sanding sealer. After drying (several minutes), I sand again > with 350/400 grit to remove what grain might have been raised, , inspect to > see if grain is filled and wood smooth, apply another application if > necessary, sand again, etc. 90% of time the first application is enough. > Taking time to do all of this right out of the box before even thinking of > assembly will pay off in spades each and every time. > > CEMENT: I no longer use cellulose cement (AMBROID, not longer available, I > believe). The skilled modeler can indeed use it so that not a single bit of > the glue is pushed out of the joints, but that is hard for most of us to do > (more kits have been spoiled with inexpert use of this glue than have ever > been actually completed, IMHO!). > > PVA or white glues: The lifesaver glue for these kits has been PVA or white > glue. It is a glue type just made for wood (painted or not), is relatively > slow setting, is strong enough, dries clear, and best of all- it can be > easily and effectively cleaned up with water as you go (I keep a custard cup > of water with a bunch of Q-tips at the ready). Although I sometimes use > ordinary Elmer's, more commonly I use either Microscale Krystal Clear or > Pacer Canopy Glue (R-C stores). These latter two products seem to be the > same, and are apparently a type of PVA glue with a thinner more > easily-applied consistency than Elmer's or similar (they are NOT just > thinned Elmer's!). > > Again, if the wood has already been effectively sealed, the glue will not > soak into the grain in places where it is difficult to clean up! > > When kits are built in this way- with fully pre-filled and sanded wood, and > with white glue- the final result can be spectacular. Joints are sharply > delineated and *clean* without glue fillets or smears, and the car itself > finishes with a beautiful even surface- usually chosen to be flat , but even > with the gloss finish expected on the passenger cars (or freshly painted > freight cars!). > > Yellow Glue: This too works well, but offers no advantage over white glue, > and one disadvantage: it can set up too fast for easy cleanup and accurate > final adjustment. Recently, I have been building some craft laser-cut wood > building kits, and some of these manufacturers are pushing the use of yellow > glue; and the experience described is exactly what I experienced when I > followed their directions. Back to white glue. > > Side Notes: Craft wood models built with cellulose glue can be "re-kitted" > if necessary, by simply tossing them into an acetone bath. You will lose all > paint, of course, and all applied plastic items (unless removed first). I > have done just this with an inexpertly-built LaBelle caboose, which I then > successfully rebuilt (as we speak, it is in the line of cabooses waiting for > assignment on the caboose track!). A cautionary note is that unless you keep > track of the many parts that will be popping to the surface of the bath, > and/or have the original instruction sheet, you may just end up with a pile > of sticks without a clue as to how to put them back together. > > Theoretically, you could do the same with craft models assembled with white > glue. However, white glue is only water-resistant, not really > water-soluable, and the damage to the wood in the process might be > irreversible. > > Enough for today! > > Denny > > Denny S. Anspach, MD > Sacramento >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16611	From: Denny Anspach	Date: 5/11/2011
Subject: Re: A discussion of adhesives for build wood kits

It is true that the PVA white glues do not hold as tightly fully sealed wood as perhaps it would ideally with wood with open grain. However, it holds well and tightly enough for our modeling purposes, and in several decades of its wide use with wood in this way, I have yet to experience any failure in this regard, not a single one. It is also true that cellulose glue will shrink with time. However, as much as it might in a given instance pull a joint ever tighter in the process, it can and will often equally simply do the opposite by starving the joint into failure . This is especially so with unsealed end grains. Other glues will also shrink in the same manner (some epoxies come to mind), so users need be cautious. Over a long lifetime of wood kit building, I have experienced relatively far more failures along the way because of poor adhesion with the cellulose glues that we used so commonly and profligately for so many years than with the PVA that I adopted as a thoroughly satisfactory and convenient standard in the past decades. As I mentioned in an earlier post, however, beautiful work with wood can still be done (and is done) by skilled modelers skilled in the use of cellulose glues, but IMHO, PVA (or perhaps now yellow glue) would be a better choice for those not so skilled. Note: For awhile Ambroid seemed to be out of business, and was reported to be so; but I see that their products are now back on the shelf. I do not know the details. Denny Denny S. Anspach, MD Sacramento

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16612	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 5/12/2011
Subject: Re: A discussion of adhesives for build wood kits

Hi Denny, I think I pretty much agree with your statements.  I personally would never consider using Ambroid (model airplane) cement or Walther's Goo in any of my models, but let me say that I have seen some very well built models using Ambroid.  I know Roger Horne personally, you can see some of his work here. http://www.trainweb.org/ambroidkits/ambroid.htm Roger has built every kit that Ambroid has ever produced.  I suppose that is his claim to fame.  He brought in several of his special displays to a Division (http://trainweb.org/cpd13/) meeting one night and the models were absolutely gorgeous.  Roger seals all of the wood with Scalecoat sanding sealer prior to building and uses Ambroid cement exclusively.  He claims that when used properly, it works great and he has never had any fall apart on him, so I am sure it can be used, if used properly.  I also like it when other builders use it and don't finish the models, then sell them cheaply at train shows or on eBay.    That way, I can use acetone and re-kit it and put it together correctly.  I have done this with a Mathiesen Dry Ice car I purchased for 5 bucks on ebay.  The builder did not complete the car and while most of the effort was passable there were several areas I definitely had to redo.  I did need to use some Northeastern Z shapes material.  I also used a generous amount of Acetone to remove the significantly excessive Ambroid cement the builder used.  Needless to say, I used Yellow glue for the remainder of the build.  Fortunately the decals weren't touched so I was able to finish the car and I am quite happy with the results. Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: danspach@... Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 17:56:07 -0700 Subject: [vintageHO] Re: A discussion of adhesives for build wood kits   It is true that the PVA white glues do not hold as tightly fully sealed wood as perhaps it would ideally with wood with open grain. However, it holds well and tightly enough for our modeling purposes, and in several decades of its wide use with wood in this way, I have yet to experience any failure in this regard, not a single one. It is also true that cellulose glue will shrink with time. However, as much as it might in a given instance pull a joint ever tighter in the process, it can and will often equally simply do the opposite by starving the joint into failure . This is especially so with unsealed end grains. Other glues will also shrink in the same manner (some epoxies come to mind), so users need be cautious. Over a long lifetime of wood kit building, I have experienced relatively far more failures along the way because of poor adhesion with the cellulose glues that we used so commonly and profligately for so many years than with the PVA that I adopted as a thoroughly satisfactory and convenient standard in the past decades. As I mentioned in an earlier post, however, beautiful work with wood can still be done (and is done) by skilled modelers skilled in the use of cellulose glues, but IMHO, PVA (or perhaps now yellow glue) would be a better choice for those not so skilled. Note: For awhile Ambroid seemed to be out of business, and was reported to be so; but I see that their products are now back on the shelf. I do not know the details. Denny Denny S. Anspach, MD Sacramento

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16613	From: RalphB	Date: 5/12/2011
Subject: Why we like kit building

There's been a lot of discussion on the list about the best ways to assemble and paint (or is it paint and assemble?) wood and metal car kits. But I got to thinking about why we even WANT to work with kits and all the various parts in them when there are so many beautiful ready-to-run cars available today. Then the light bulb went on. Most of the folks on this list are (well) past their 50th birthday, and we've been building kits for a long, long time. We also get a lot of satisfaction out of doing the work that it takes to put a kit together. As for me, I'm a post-war (WW II) baby boomer and I grew up building plastic kits - airplanes, cars, armor, etc. I also did a couple of wooden airplanes; I just loved the smell of the dope used to tighten up the tissue paper. Over the past couple of weeks I've assembled half a dozen kits, everything from Athearn shake-the-box kits to near-craftsman-level Front Range and E&B Valley kits that have been off the market for years. Regardless of the original manufacturer, though, there is one thing that's common to all the cars I put together: screw-on coupler pocket covers. Eventually, I'll get around to doing the same thing to all the assembled cars I've picked up at train shows and off eBay. Some folks like operation and others are scenic artists who can get along just fine with the RTR stuff. The beauty of the hobby is that there's room for all of us. Ralph Balfoort

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16614	From: cwrailman	Date: 5/12/2011
Subject: Re: Why we like kit building

Ralph, I would say it's the feeling of satisfaction of accomplishment that you cannot get from purchasing something that is RTR. It also presents the opportunity to have something that not everyone else has. When I first got into the hobby I visited a lot of model railroads. I noted that most if not all the model railroads I visited had some form of the Revell engine houses, bakery structure. It seemed Revell changed the doors a bit and used the same wall sections for numerous structures. I really got to dislike that structure. In addition I would see strings of Athearn cars some with the same number on the sides. In other words it seemed many modelers were all doing the same thing. I found that very tiring. Next I found craftsman kits. A guy by the name of Frank Massa was running a string of cars at the Elmhurst Model RR club in Illinois. His cars were different than what everybody else was running. He pointed to each and called out names like Ambroid, LaBelle, Northeastern, Central Valley, and Laconia just to name a few. The next visit to the hobby shop I looked for and bought a few of those. The craftsman kits provided me with the skills and knowledge of assembly to want to do something still different. First I started by buying materials and copying one of the kits I had. Then another kit. Then I started to bash car kits especially passenger cars and cabeese and design my own cars based on prototypical practices. (You can do that when you model logging lines.) This was all running parallel to my interest in structures. First several Campbell kits then a scratchbuilt freight house based on plans in RMC. That led to a scratchbuilt board by board constructed structure which led to Along the way I met others who had similar interests. We got together to teach one another and share building techniques. We brought our latest project to the get togethers to discuss the models we built and the techniques we used much like the discussions that go on this board, the current discussion about glues and adhesives is typical of those brain storming sessions. That was all before the Internet and boards like this one. There is a bond with others who have built the same or similar kits that is not shared among those who walk into a hobby shop and open their wallets and walk out with boxes of RTR. Time to close up the shop for the night. Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "RalphB" <Alpvalsys@...> wrote: > > There's been a lot of discussion on the list about the best ways to assemble and paint (or is it paint and assemble?) wood and metal car kits. But I got to thinking about why we even WANT to work with kits and all the various parts in them when there are so many beautiful ready-to-run cars available today. > > Then the light bulb went on. Most of the folks on this list are (well) past their 50th birthday, and we've been building kits for a long, long time. We also get a lot of satisfaction out of doing the work that it takes to put a kit together. As for me, I'm a post-war (WW II) baby boomer and I grew up building plastic kits - airplanes, cars, armor, etc. I also did a couple of wooden airplanes; I just loved the smell of the dope used to tighten up the tissue paper. > > Over the past couple of weeks I've assembled half a dozen kits, everything from Athearn shake-the-box kits to near-craftsman-level Front Range and E&B Valley kits that have been off the market for years. Regardless of the original manufacturer, though, there is one thing that's common to all the cars I put together: screw-on coupler pocket covers. Eventually, I'll get around to doing the same thing to all the assembled cars I've picked up at train shows and off eBay. > > Some folks like operation and others are scenic artists who can get along just fine with the RTR stuff. The beauty of the hobby is that there's room for all of us. > > Ralph Balfoort >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16615	From: ablecynic	Date: 5/13/2011
Subject: Re: Why we like kit building

You know, I read your post and realized how true it is! For me, but probably for few others, the hobby is about kit building. While I have some brass locos, they provide satisfaction in having to remotor them, detail them, and tweak them to get them to run. But the real joy is building a kit into a fully completed model. Nothing else matches that satisfaction. I buy old kits to build them and that is what I like so much about this list. Matt --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "RalphB" <Alpvalsys@...> wrote: > > There's been a lot of discussion on the list about the best ways to assemble and paint (or is it paint and assemble?) wood and metal car kits. But I got to thinking about why we even WANT to work with kits and all the various parts in them when there are so many beautiful ready-to-run cars available today. > > Then the light bulb went on. Most of the folks on this list are (well) past their 50th birthday, and we've been building kits for a long, long time. We also get a lot of satisfaction out of doing the work that it takes to put a kit together. As for me, I'm a post-war (WW II) baby boomer and I grew up building plastic kits - airplanes, cars, armor, etc. I also did a couple of wooden airplanes; I just loved the smell of the dope used to tighten up the tissue paper. > > Over the past couple of weeks I've assembled half a dozen kits, everything from Athearn shake-the-box kits to near-craftsman-level Front Range and E&B Valley kits that have been off the market for years. Regardless of the original manufacturer, though, there is one thing that's common to all the cars I put together: screw-on coupler pocket covers. Eventually, I'll get around to doing the same thing to all the assembled cars I've picked up at train shows and off eBay. > > Some folks like operation and others are scenic artists who can get along just fine with the RTR stuff. The beauty of the hobby is that there's room for all of us. > > Ralph Balfoort >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16616	From: Denny Anspach	Date: 5/13/2011
Subject: Re: A discussion of adhesives for build wood kits

In the earlier days of model railroad kits, the glue most common to most of them was casein glue a natural glue made from skim milk, a packet of which was included in just about every kit. It was, and still is, a fine glue ("all natural"), but there is a learning curve to avoid wastage. Cellulose glues became popular with the rise of the balsa/tissue paper model airplane hobby (a hobby LOT larger than the railroad modelers). I recall well purchasing "Airplane Glue" to glue together countless such airplane models during the early '40s. There were countless brands, all of them clear, all of them very fast drying, and all of them ending their lives dried fast in their tubes. The most durable of these clear glues was Duco, produced for years by DuPont, but currently by Devcon. Ambroid came on to the hobby market later- about 1950?. Its advantage was that it was much slower in setting up than the clear cements. Like the current Barge Cement, it had already been proven successful in other more mature and demanding markets, Ambroid being particularly useful in the repair of tears in the canvas that then-ubiquitous covered traditional "Indian -or Maine- Guide traditional " cedar planked canoes. I used to lead white-water camping canoe trips in the late '40s with these types of canoes, and "Ambroid was my friend". I still have three of these traditional canoes, and if canvas tears (God forbid!) need repairing, my small cache of Ambroid cement would be at the ready.I should add that the Ambroid would be used ONLY to glue canvas to canvas, not canvas to wood, nor wood to wood. The balsa/tissue paper airplane, and wood model railroad hobby business receded with the introduction of molded plastic models, and so did the market for cellulose glues (much hastened eventually by the "glue-sniffing" craze). The introduction of contact cements, first by Goodyear (Pliobond) and then GOO by Walthers in the early '50s, also hastened things along in this regard. The very biggest basic problem with all of these glues was the difficulty that the average hobbiest experienced in the application the glues in the tiny amounts sufficient to actually secure the small or even tiny joints; but yet not enough for the glue to then squeeze out of the joint once the pieces were joined, at the very least staining the adjoining wood surfaces. Some very fine and meticulous modelers were able to surmount these problems, but most did not. Those who were successful usually applied the glues with a tooth pick or similar, and not directly from the wide mouth of the tube, and also probably better understood the qualities of the glue that they were using. Other general complications occurred (and do yet occur) when joints are clamped too tight, starving the joint; or not clamped enough- each resulting in weak or failed joints. I have not mentioned ACC, a wonderful glue, but with a lot of drawbacks just lying in wait for the unwary modeler. For the wood kit modeler, stick with the now time tested PVA- you will not regret the choice. It is very forgiving, if only because of its very easy cleanup. For those already so skilled and comfortable with the use of cellulose, stick with it. Use contact cement only when metal-needs to cemented to wood, or metal to metal, and even then it is best to make application when the pieces to be joined are relatively large. Epoxies have only limited use in my modeling experience, and then only when extraordinary strength and resilience is required, wood/wood, wood/metal/ metal/metal.; and the pieces to be joined can be held immobile for long periods. These qualities are only afforded by the traditional and industrial-strength epoxies (identified by long set up times, usually overnight: "2-Ton" is a common consumer brand), not the expedient "5-minute" variety- which is a formulation generally referred to as "junk" amongst those who use epoxies in everyday use. My own experience mirrors the latter opinion, after having numerous joints with fail with this poor cement (no longer carried in my armamentarium). For the past forty years, I have used (and continue to use) about four different epoxy formulations in maintaining and restoring antique wood boats. Pretty wonderful stuff to use, but not for everything. Denny Denny S. Anspach, MD Sacramento

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16617	From: jim heckard	Date: 5/13/2011
Subject: AF / Mantua FY&P 4-4-0

Attachments : IMG_7035_1_2.JPG                 Finished my reproduction of the American Flyer / Mantua FY&P 4-4-0 Frontiersman. It was made from parts, some little missing detail parts,  replaced broken parts, repainted to match the paint scheme except shakng hands couldn't paint the yellow strip needed on the side of the walkways now. Engine runs nice for tender mounted used motor.                                             Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 16618	From: Richard White	Date: 5/13/2011
Subject: Re: A discussion of adhesives for build wood kits

Hi Denny- Thanks for your comprehensive replies regarding model-building adhesives. I intend to use the following adhesives in building some "classic" Walthers passenger cars I've recently obtained. Can you correct me as necessary: (1) wood to wood- Elmer's yellow carpenters glue (2) metal to wood- Barge cement (3) metal details to plastic roof- "gap-filling" ACC, and (4) plastic window material to the inside of the metal sides- ??? Thanks for your comments and help.  -Richard White, Moraga, CA    To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: danspach@... Date: Fri, 13 May 2011 09:05:32 -0700 Subject: [vintageHO] Re: A discussion of adhesives for build wood kits   In the earlier days of model railroad kits, the glue most common to most of them was casein glue a natural glue made from skim milk, a packet of which was included in just about every kit. It was, and still is, a fine glue ("all natural"), but there is a learning curve to avoid wastage. Cellulose glues became popular with the rise of the balsa/tissue paper model airplane hobby (a hobby LOT larger than the railroad modelers). I recall well purchasing "Airplane Glue" to glue together countless such airplane models during the early '40s. There were countless brands, all of them clear, all of them very fast drying, and all of them ending their lives dried fast in their tubes. The most durable of these clear glues was Duco, produced for years by DuPont, but currently by Devcon. Ambroid came on to the hobby market later- about 1950?. Its advantage was that it was much slower in setting up than the clear cements. Like the current Barge Cement, it had already been proven successful in other more mature and demanding markets, Ambroid being particularly useful in the repair of tears in the canvas that then-ubiquitous covered traditional "Indian -or Maine- Guide traditional " cedar planked canoes. I used to lead white-water camping canoe trips in the late '40s with these types of canoes, and "Ambroid was my friend". I still have three of these traditional canoes, and if canvas tears (God forbid!) need repairing, my small cache of Ambroid cement would be at the ready.I should add that the Ambroid would be used ONLY to glue canvas to canvas, not canvas to wood, nor wood to wood. The balsa/tissue paper airplane, and wood model railroad hobby business receded with the introduction of molded plastic models, and so did the market for cellulose glues (much hastened eventually by the "glue-sniffing" craze). The introduction of contact cements, first by Goodyear (Pliobond) and then GOO by Walthers in the early '50s, also hastened things along in this regard. The very biggest basic problem with all of these glues was the difficulty that the average hobbiest experienced in the application the glues in the tiny amounts sufficient to actually secure the small or even tiny joints; but yet not enough for the glue to then squeeze out of the joint once the pieces were joined, at the very least staining the adjoining wood surfaces. Some very fine and meticulous modelers were able to surmount these problems, but most did not. Those who were successful usually applied the glues with a tooth pick or similar, and not directly from the wide mouth of the tube, and also probably better understood the qualities of the glue that they were using. Other general complications occurred (and do yet occur) when joints are clamped too tight, starving the joint; or not clamped enough- each resulting in weak or failed joints. I have not mentioned ACC, a wonderful glue, but with a lot of drawbacks just lying in wait for the unwary modeler. For the wood kit modeler, stick with the now time tested PVA- you will not regret the choice. It is very forgiving, if only because of its very easy cleanup. For those already so skilled and comfortable with the use of cellulose, stick with it. Use contact cement only when metal-needs to cemented to wood, or metal to metal, and even then it is best to make application when the pieces to be joined are relatively large. Epoxies have only limited use in my modeling experience, and then only when extraordinary strength and resilience is required, wood/wood, wood/metal/ metal/metal.; and the pieces to be joined can be held immobile for long periods. These qualities are only afforded by the traditional and industrial-strength epoxies (identified by long set up times, usually overnight: "2-Ton" is a common consumer brand), not the expedient "5-minute" variety- which is a formulation generally referred to as "junk" amongst those who use epoxies in everyday use. My own experience mirrors the latter opinion, after having numerous joints with fail with this poor cement (no longer carried in my armamentarium). For the past forty years, I have used (and continue to use) about four different epoxy formulations in maintaining and restoring antique wood boats. Pretty wonderful stuff to use, but not for everything. Denny Denny S. Anspach, MD Sacramento

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16619	From: nvrr49	Date: 5/13/2011
Subject: Re: A discussion of adhesives for build wood kits

"Yellow Glue: This too works well, but offers no advantage over white glue" Yellow glue is resistant to Lacquer finish, which was the reason it was developed for the furniture inductry. Kent Hurley, KC nvrr49.blogspot.com

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16620	From: jake_iv@juno.com	Date: 5/14/2011
Subject: Re: AF / Mantua FY&P 4-4-0 [1 Attachment]

Dear Jim,    Thank you for providing us with an excellent example of the art of modeling.  Not to mention, demonstrating the timeless qualities of these 50 - 60 year old designs for model rails.    I have successfully installed small "can" and "flat can" motors in these models.  You might find that the Sagami open frame motor used by some of the MDC small steamer kits of the 70's & 80's will give you better slow speed performance. I have found the open frame motors to be good choices when I want slower speeds without having to install reduction gears.   Thanks again for sharing your experiences in the recreation of this classic ! Jake Bechtel Gadsden, AL

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16621	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 5/14/2011
Subject: Re: AF / Mantua FY&P 4-4-0 [1 Attachment]

That really looks great Jim!   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: jim heckard <jimheck@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, May 13, 2011 3:35:33 PM Subject: [vintageHO] AF / Mantua FY&P 4-4-0 [1 Attachment]                   Finished my reproduction of the American Flyer / Mantua FY&P 4-4-0 Frontiersman. It was made from parts, some little missing detail parts,  replaced broken parts, repainted to match the paint scheme except shakng hands couldn't paint the yellow strip needed on the side of the walkways now. Engine runs nice for tender mounted used motor.                                             Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16622	From: Denny Anspach	Date: 5/14/2011
Subject: Re: A discussion of adhesives for build wood kits

Comments interspersed below- Hi Denny- Thanks for your comprehensive replies regarding model-building adhesives. I intend to use the following adhesives in building some "classic" Walthers passenger cars I've recently obtained. Can you correct me as necessary: (1) wood to wood- Elmer's yellow carpenters glue (2) metal to wood- Barge cement (3) metal details to plastic roof- "gap-filling" ACC, and (4) plastic window material to the inside of the metal sides- ??? I use Microscale MicroClear. or Canopy glue to glue clear window material, providing the "glass" can actually lie flat against the sides of the window frame- which may be problematic against the Walthers stamped tinplated sides. The stress borne by "window glass" is pretty small in most instances, and these forms of PVA hold well enough (slightly-thinned Elmer's might probably do). A great  (that is, great!) added advantage is that any glue squeezed out will dry clear, even invisible.  For larger windows where putting ones finger through accidentally during routine handling is always a possiblity, creating a more broad glueing surface with segments of pasteboard or wood glued around the window frame. I also use Barge Cement for the window glass at times. This takes some care and there is a learning curve to make certain that you move right along to avoid stringiness and unsightly smearing.  Because of the nature of this cement, it is good choice when it is impossible to lay the glass flat  against  an irregular surface.  Building Walthers older cars was and always will be  fun projects. . Denny      Thanks for your comments and help. -Richard White, Moraga, CA  Denny S. Anspach, MD Sacramento

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16623	From: nvrr49	Date: 5/14/2011
Subject: Re: Why we like kit building

Over 50, yes I am, but I did not get in to the hobby until the 1985, so the Ambroid kits were old then. I really have little interest in a layout, had one, tore it down to move, and have not had one in 12 years or more. I just like building and kitbashing freight cars, and vehicles in HO, HON3 and HON30. Kent in KC] nvrr49.blogspot.com

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16624	From: The Danish Duke	Date: 5/14/2011
Subject: Re: Why we like kit building

I miss the Athearn and Roundhouse kits because some come undecorated so I have a road I like. With the already built cars, some of the road names are now gone of the catalog. I also like having parts on-hand for kitbashing. I am in the process of powering my Athearn locomotives. Earl Poulsen Vancouver,WA --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "ablecynic" <mattjcoleman@...> wrote: > > You know, I read your post and realized how true it is! For me, but probably for few others, the hobby is about kit building. While I have some brass locos, they provide satisfaction in having to remotor them, detail them, and tweak them to get them to run. > > But the real joy is building a kit into a fully completed model. Nothing else matches that satisfaction. I buy old kits to build them and that is what I like so much about this list. > > Matt > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "RalphB" <Alpvalsys@> wrote: > > > > There's been a lot of discussion on the list about the best ways to assemble and paint (or is it paint and assemble?) wood and metal car kits. But I got to thinking about why we even WANT to work with kits and all the various parts in them when there are so many beautiful ready-to-run cars available today. > > > > Then the light bulb went on. Most of the folks on this list are (well) past their 50th birthday, and we've been building kits for a long, long time. We also get a lot of satisfaction out of doing the work that it takes to put a kit together. As for me, I'm a post-war (WW II) baby boomer and I grew up building plastic kits - airplanes, cars, armor, etc. I also did a couple of wooden airplanes; I just loved the smell of the dope used to tighten up the tissue paper. > > > > Over the past couple of weeks I've assembled half a dozen kits, everything from Athearn shake-the-box kits to near-craftsman-level Front Range and E&B Valley kits that have been off the market for years. Regardless of the original manufacturer, though, there is one thing that's common to all the cars I put together: screw-on coupler pocket covers. Eventually, I'll get around to doing the same thing to all the assembled cars I've picked up at train shows and off eBay. > > > > Some folks like operation and others are scenic artists who can get along just fine with the RTR stuff. The beauty of the hobby is that there's room for all of us. > > > > Ralph Balfoort > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16625	From: Russ Shiel	Date: 5/15/2011
Subject: Instruction sheet sought

Greetings all...help I seek!   I picked up a basket case Great Western/Kemtron 'Brass Betsy' HO/HOn3 Consolidation thinking of parts, but there may be enough to restore...no instruction sheet(s), and a search of HO Seeker hasn't turned up this particular loco.   Can anyone direct me to a source of the build sheet(s) or help with a copy of the relevant instructions? Happy to cover any cost(s)!   Chrs! Russ

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16626	From: tom bell	Date: 5/15/2011
Subject: Re: Brass Betsy Instruction sheet sought

There is a thread about building one on a British forum here - http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/12280-brass-betsy-for-pennsylvanian-shortline/page__p__108876__hl__%2Bbrass+%2Bbetsy%26%2339%3B__fromsearch__1#entry108876

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16627	From: Askerberg	Date: 5/15/2011
Subject: Varney diesel switcher

I acquired a Varney diesel switcher awhile back and have been restoring it. The body bolster on the dummy truck is offset and raises the body higher than on the power truck. It is assembled according to the diagrams on HOseeker. Does anyone have a suggestion on the best way to get the two trucks equidistant from the body? I haven'e checked the coupler height yet, but I suspect the power truck is mounted about at the correct height and the dummy truck is extended too far from the body. Al Askerberg

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16628	From: cwrailman	Date: 5/16/2011
Subject: Re: Bashing LaBelle passenger cars

Mark, I did not forget about your request/question. Under the file section I created CWRailman Bashes. I have placed a PDF of the first modified LaBelle car "Sheanne" in that folder. Sheanne is a modification of LaBelle Kit #9 Closed Vestibule Sleeper. This car came about because a friend gave me an incomplete kit and using the parts plus fabrication of one end I was able to come up with this car. The open vestibule/open platform ends are built in the same manner as the LaBelle kit #11-13 kits. The existing letter board is contoured to achieve the same profile as the open platform cars. This PDF file can be printed with "no reduction" and it will give you almost all of the image on a letter size 8.5x11 sheet but, to get the full image of the original car you need to print it on legal size paper 8.5x14. Let me know how this works for you. I will post additional mods in the future as time permits. I am having my friend Jimmy who built Ruby send me the original artwork for that car and as soon as that arrives I will be posting a PDF file of that car. Time to get some sleep. Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "mark_h_charles" <mark_h_charles@...> wrote: > > Denny, > > This is a great project and the photos are excellent. > > Have you considered sharing a pdf of the 'revised' drawings? > > Mark Charles > Ann Arbor, MI >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16629	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 5/17/2011
Subject: Re: Bashing LaBelle passenger cars

Hi guys,   Saw the topic and thought I would chime in. I think this is a Walthers car and not labell, but I am not sure either, but it looks to have been bashed to me and I just was hoping anyone else could confirm this too. I have never seen a 1/2 passenger car and half MOW boom car before, but it is well enough done that I actually question if it were not a factory option:   http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/4388399716/in/set-72157623384254115   Thanks in advance for any comments or imput.   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16630	From: Charles	Date: 5/17/2011
Subject: Re: Bashing LaBelle passenger cars

I don't think the passenger car section is Walthers. It looks scratchbuilt to me. Either that, or it is some fairly crude kit I'm not familiar with. Especially check out how the windows were made and the end platform that looks like it my be one big casting instead of the seperate cast steps Walthers had. Chuck Kinzer --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > Hi guys, > > Saw the topic and thought I would chime in. I think this is a Walthers car and > not labell, but I am not sure either, but it looks to have been bashed to me > and I just was hoping anyone else could confirm this too. I have never seen a > 1/2 passenger car and half MOW boom car before, but it is well enough done that > I actually question if it were not a factory option: > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/4388399716/in/set-72157623384254115 > > Thanks in advance for any comments or imput. >  Sean > > > "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario > Andretti! >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16631	From: cwrailman	Date: 5/17/2011
Subject: Re: Bashing LaBelle passenger cars

Sean, This work car does not look like any kit I am familiar with. It looks like a bash of left over parts. While I am not seeing the rivet detail on the sides that I would expect, the sides and roof could be either Walthers or JC but without seeing it close up that is all speculation. Now back to the shops, Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > Hi guys, > > Saw the topic and thought I would chime in. I think this is a Walthers car and > not labell, but I am not sure either, but it looks to have been bashed to me > and I just was hoping anyone else could confirm this too. I have never seen a > 1/2 passenger car and half MOW boom car before, but it is well enough done that > I actually question if it were not a factory option: > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/4388399716/in/set-72157623384254115 > > Thanks in advance for any comments or imput. >  Sean > > > "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario > Andretti! >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16632	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 5/17/2011
Subject: Re: Bashing LaBelle passenger cars

Thanks guys. Unfortunately my cell phone does not take very good detail pictures, but I think I mus agree with you. There are enough parts on it that make me think Walthers, but I was not sure.   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: cwrailman <cwrailman@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, May 17, 2011 1:33:52 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Bashing LaBelle passenger cars   Sean, This work car does not look like any kit I am familiar with. It looks like a bash of left over parts. While I am not seeing the rivet detail on the sides that I would expect, the sides and roof could be either Walthers or JC but without seeing it close up that is all speculation. Now back to the shops, Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > Hi guys, > > Saw the topic and thought I would chime in. I think this is a Walthers car and > not labell, but I am not sure either, but it looks to have been bashed to me > and I just was hoping anyone else could confirm this too. I have never seen a > 1/2 passenger car and half MOW boom car before, but it is well enough done that > I actually question if it were not a factory option: > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/4388399716/in/set-72157623384254115 > > Thanks in advance for any comments or imput. >  Sean > > > "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario > Andretti! >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16633	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 5/17/2011
Subject: Re: Bashing LaBelle passenger cars

I have to agree with the scratchbuilt theory. As you mention, looking at the window frames, the side looks way to thick to be stamped metal. Regardless, it's still a very nice and unique piece. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles" <ckinzer@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2011 11:58 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Bashing LaBelle passenger cars I don't think the passenger car section is Walthers. It looks scratchbuilt to me. Either that, or it is some fairly crude kit I'm not familiar with. Especially check out how the windows were made and the end platform that looks like it my be one big casting instead of the seperate cast steps Walthers had. Chuck Kinzer --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > Hi guys, > > Saw the topic and thought I would chime in. I think this is a Walthers car > and > not labell, but I am not sure either, but it looks to have been bashed to > me > and I just was hoping anyone else could confirm this too. I have never > seen a > 1/2 passenger car and half MOW boom car before, but it is well enough done > that > I actually question if it were not a factory option: > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/4388399716/in/set-72157623384254115 > > Thanks in advance for any comments or imput. > Sean > > > "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario > Andretti! > ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16634	From: cwrailman	Date: 5/17/2011
Subject: Re: Bashing LaBelle passenger cars

Don, You have built a bunch of the Walthers cars. Didn't they make a kit in which you cut your own windows or some such. I remember something like that. Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > I have to agree with the scratchbuilt theory. As you mention, looking at > the window frames, the side looks way to thick to be stamped metal. > Regardless, it's still a very nice and unique piece. > > Don > > Don Dellmann > don.dellmann@... > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ > http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction > Owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Charles" <ckinzer@...> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2011 11:58 AM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Bashing LaBelle passenger cars > > > I don't think the passenger car section is Walthers. It looks scratchbuilt > to me. Either that, or it is some fairly crude kit I'm not familiar with. > Especially check out how the windows were made and the end platform that > looks like it my be one big casting instead of the seperate cast steps > Walthers had. > > Chuck Kinzer > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@> wrote: > > > > Hi guys, > > > > Saw the topic and thought I would chime in. I think this is a Walthers car > > and > > not labell, but I am not sure either, but it looks to have been bashed to > > me > > and I just was hoping anyone else could confirm this too. I have never > > seen a > > 1/2 passenger car and half MOW boom car before, but it is well enough done > > that > > I actually question if it were not a factory option: > > > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/4388399716/in/set-72157623384254115 > > > > Thanks in advance for any comments or imput. > > Sean > > > > > > "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario > > Andretti! > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16635	From: Glenn	Date: 5/17/2011
Subject: Re: Bashing LaBelle passenger cars

There shopuld be no problem distinguishing between Walthers and LaBelle cars. LaBelle are all wood, scribed sheathing-- Walthers sides are stamped tin plate. A magnet will show--ends and other parts are cast lead--roof and floor are wood or some later roofs are plastic. gj -----Original Message----- From: cwrailman Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2011 2:42 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Bashing LaBelle passenger cars Don, You have built a bunch of the Walthers cars. Didn't they make a kit in which you cut your own windows or some such. I remember something like that. Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > I have to agree with the scratchbuilt theory. As you mention, looking at > the window frames, the side looks way to thick to be stamped metal. > Regardless, it's still a very nice and unique piece. > > Don > > Don Dellmann > don.dellmann@... > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ > http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction > Owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Charles" <ckinzer@...> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2011 11:58 AM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Bashing LaBelle passenger cars > > > I don't think the passenger car section is Walthers. It looks > scratchbuilt > to me. Either that, or it is some fairly crude kit I'm not familiar with. > Especially check out how the windows were made and the end platform that > looks like it my be one big casting instead of the seperate cast steps > Walthers had. > > Chuck Kinzer > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@> wrote: > > > > Hi guys, > > > > Saw the topic and thought I would chime in. I think this is a Walthers > > car > > and > > not labell, but I am not sure either, but it looks to have been bashed > > to > > me > > and I just was hoping anyone else could confirm this too. I have never > > seen a > > 1/2 passenger car and half MOW boom car before, but it is well enough > > done > > that > > I actually question if it were not a factory option: > > > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/4388399716/in/set-72157623384254115 > > > > Thanks in advance for any comments or imput. > > Sean > > > > > > "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - > > Mario > > Andretti! > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16636	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 5/17/2011
Subject: Re: Bashing LaBelle passenger cars

----- Original Message ----- From: "cwrailman" <cwrailman@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2011 4:42 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Bashing LaBelle passenger cars > Don, > > You have built a bunch of the Walthers cars. Didn't they make a kit in > which you cut your own windows or some such. I remember something like > that. > > Denny > Janitor in Training > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops They did, it was a kit with just a plain side that you could cut your own windows, but still it was thin stamped metal, this side looks thick. Also, it had rivet detail, the only Walthers cars that did NOT have rivets were the first "Crestline" cars, pretty much 1940'a (there were four distinct versions of the Walthers metal cars, not counting the "Pugs", what I would call "phase 1" of the 6600 series with plain sides, then "phase 2" 6600's had rivet detail, Then there were the "phase 1" "Silver Anniversary" 7800's, and lastly "phase 2" 7800's that had superdetails, and the 6600 series numbers were revived for the monitor roof cars with plastic roofs). The "do it yourself" car dated from the last of the four variations. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16637	From: cwrailman	Date: 5/17/2011
Subject: Lindsey Motor up for grabs

I have posted several images at the end of my photo album of a Lindsey motor that has been in our shops for some time.  It is in running condition.  If you have a need for this motor please contact me off line http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/album/73154888/pic/list Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16638	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 5/18/2011
Subject: Re: Bashing LaBelle passenger cars

Actually guys,   My cell phone took a blurry pic. The sides are thin & scribed cardstock if not actual wood. I have it packed away in storage right now so I am going by memory, so please forgive me. I thought I had more pictures of it, but I can not find any.  They are not thick and definately not metal. I though the details to be a little crude to be Labelle though. The boom is actually quite well done and I had never seen one like it. Was a steal at ~$20 if you ask me.   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, May 17, 2011 11:29:06 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Bashing LaBelle passenger cars   ----- Original Message ----- From: "cwrailman" <cwrailman@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2011 4:42 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Bashing LaBelle passenger cars > Don, > > You have built a bunch of the Walthers cars. Didn't they make a kit in > which you cut your own windows or some such. I remember something like > that. > > Denny > Janitor in Training > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops They did, it was a kit with just a plain side that you could cut your own windows, but still it was thin stamped metal, this side looks thick. Also, it had rivet detail, the only Walthers cars that did NOT have rivets were the first "Crestline" cars, pretty much 1940'a (there were four distinct versions of the Walthers metal cars, not counting the "Pugs", what I would call "phase 1" of the 6600 series with plain sides, then "phase 2" 6600's had rivet detail, Then there were the "phase 1" "Silver Anniversary" 7800's, and lastly "phase 2" 7800's that had superdetails, and the 6600 series numbers were revived for the monitor roof cars with plastic roofs). The "do it yourself" car dated from the last of the four variations. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16639	From: Glenn	Date: 5/18/2011
Subject: Re: Bashing LaBelle passenger cars

Walthers did some cars with “wood” cardstock overlays—the magnet will tell--gj   From: Sean Naylor Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2011 6:40 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Bashing LaBelle passenger cars   Actually guys,   My cell phone took a blurry pic. The sides are thin & scribed cardstock if not actual wood. I have it packed away in storage right now so I am going by memory, so please forgive me. I thought I had more pictures of it, but I can not find any.  They are not thick and definately not metal. I though the details to be a little crude to be Labelle though. The boom is actually quite well done and I had never seen one like it. Was a steal at ~$20 if you ask me.   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!     From: Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, May 17, 2011 11:29:06 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Bashing LaBelle passenger cars   ----- Original Message ----- From: "cwrailman" <mailto:cwrailman%40yahoo.com> To: <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2011 4:42 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Bashing LaBelle passenger cars > Don, > > You have built a bunch of the Walthers cars. Didn't they make a kit in > which you cut your own windows or some such. I remember something like > that. > > Denny > Janitor in Training > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops They did, it was a kit with just a plain side that you could cut your own windows, but still it was thin stamped metal, this side looks thick. Also, it had rivet detail, the only Walthers cars that did NOT have rivets were the first "Crestline" cars, pretty much 1940'a (there were four distinct versions of the Walthers metal cars, not counting the "Pugs", what I would call "phase 1" of the 6600 series with plain sides, then "phase 2" 6600's had rivet detail, Then there were the "phase 1" "Silver Anniversary" 7800's, and lastly "phase 2" 7800's that had superdetails, and the 6600 series numbers were revived for the monitor roof cars with plastic roofs). The "do it yourself" car dated from the last of the four variations. Don Don Dellmann mailto:don.dellmann%40prodigy.net http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16640	From: bitlerisvj@hotmail.com	Date: 5/18/2011
Subject: Varney OSTUCO gondola

This is an FYI for anyone interested in getting their own Varney OSTUCO gondola with the special structure on the back.  It is going on eBay at this moment.  There are 2 gondolas on this auction and one of them is the special OSTUCO car. http://cgi.ebay.com/LOT-2-NICE-VARNEY-HO-GONDOLAS-MCRR-OHIO-SEAMLESS-/330564683737?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item4cf730c7d9  Regards, Vic Bitleris

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16641	From: Don Hud	Date: 5/19/2011
Subject: Re: Varney OSTUCO gondola

I thought there was a policy against putting out these type of messages on this board about live auctions. This really does not benefit anyone but the seller. I had this auction already in my watch list, but I guess I can forget it now because I'm sure that it will go well above what I was willing to pay, and just judging from the looks of where it is now and the time left, it is well on it's way to reaching a premium price. I think that if anyone wanted one bad enough, they could do their own searching. Don --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, bitlerisvj@... wrote: > > This is an FYI for anyone interested in getting their own Varney OSTUCO > gondola with the special structure on the back. It is going on eBay at > this moment. There are 2 gondolas on this auction and one of them is > the special OSTUCO car. > http://cgi.ebay.com/LOT-2-NICE-VARNEY-HO-GONDOLAS-MCRR-OHIO-SEAMLESS-/33\ > 0564683737?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item4cf730c7d9 > <This%20is%20an%20FYI%20for%20anyone%20interested%20in%20getting%20their\ > %20own%20Varney%20OSTUCO%20gondola%20with%20the%20special%20structure%20\ > on%20the%20back.%20%20It%20is%20going%20on%20eBay%20at%20this%20moment.%\ > 20%20There%20are%202%20gondolas%20on%20this%20auction%20and%20one%20of%2\ > 0them%20is%20the%20special%20OSTUCO%20car.%20http://cgi.ebay.com/LOT-2-N\ > ICE-VARNEY-HO-GONDOLAS-MCRR-OHIO-SEAMLESS-/330564683737?pt=Model_RR_Trai\ > ns&hash=item4cf730c7d9> > Regards, Vic Bitleris >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16642	From: bitlerisvj@hotmail.com	Date: 5/19/2011
Subject: Re: Varney OSTUCO gondola

Hi, I certainly did not mean any harm to anyone, I am not aware of a policy like this on this group or any other group I belong to.  In fact, many groups post something like this regularly, because a lot of folks in the list would have an interest.  Don Dellman (owner/moderator) can clarify if I broke a rule or went against policy, but I don't believe I did.  In fact the opening  post for this group implies that notices like this are welcome. ----------------------------snip snip snip------------------------------------------------------ There's other groups out there, for collectors of Athearn, Varney, MDC and others, but I wanted to start one for just general good old HO from the past. This is the list for those who still run the good old HO of the past, Varney, Penn Line, Athearn metal, the list is virtually endless. Generally, I'm saying anything from the early 60's and before. Athearn Rubber band drive diesels, Varney NW-2's and F-3's, brass from Akane and MB Austin, extruded magnesium passenger cars from Samson. Varney cardstock and wood kits. MDC Metal. Whatever.... "On topic" are is HO that us "baby boomers" and our older mentors grew up with. Share with us the models you have and run. Photo attachments are welcome, as long as they're .jpg format. Sale or trade is great, as long as it's "vintage" HO. Thanks for joining us. Don ----------------------------snip snip snip------------------------------------------------------ --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Hud" <don_hud@...> wrote: > > I thought there was a policy against putting out these type of messages on this board about live auctions. This really does not benefit anyone but the seller. > > I had this auction already in my watch list, but I guess I can forget it now because I'm sure that it will go well above what I was willing to pay, and just judging from the looks of where it is now and the time left, it is well on it's way to reaching a premium price. > > I think that if anyone wanted one bad enough, they could do their own searching. > > Don > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, bitlerisvj@ wrote: > > > > This is an FYI for anyone interested in getting their own Varney OSTUCO > > gondola with the special structure on the back. It is going on eBay at > > this moment. There are 2 gondolas on this auction and one of them is > > the special OSTUCO car. > > http://cgi.ebay.com/LOT-2-NICE-VARNEY-HO-GONDOLAS-MCRR-OHIO-SEAMLESS-/33\ > > 0564683737?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item4cf730c7d9 > > <This%20is%20an%20FYI%20for%20anyone%20interested%20in%20getting%20their\ > > %20own%20Varney%20OSTUCO%20gondola%20with%20the%20special%20structure%20\ > > on%20the%20back.%20%20It%20is%20going%20on%20eBay%20at%20this%20moment.%\ > > 20%20There%20are%202%20gondolas%20on%20this%20auction%20and%20one%20of%2\ > > 0them%20is%20the%20special%20OSTUCO%20car.%20http://cgi.ebay.com/LOT-2-N\ > > ICE-VARNEY-HO-GONDOLAS-MCRR-OHIO-SEAMLESS-/330564683737?pt=Model_RR_Trai\ > > ns&hash=item4cf730c7d9> > > Regards, Vic Bitleris > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16643	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 5/19/2011
Subject: Re: Varney OSTUCO gondola

Pointing out an auction for something vintage and desirable that the group might find of interest in very "on-topic" as long as you are not the seller. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Hud" <don_hud@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2011 9:16 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Varney OSTUCO gondola >I thought there was a policy against putting out these type of messages on >this board about live auctions. This really does not benefit anyone but >the seller. > > I had this auction already in my watch list, but I guess I can forget it > now because I'm sure that it will go well above what I was willing to pay, > and just judging from the looks of where it is now and the time left, it > is well on it's way to reaching a premium price. > > I think that if anyone wanted one bad enough, they could do their own > searching. > > Don > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, bitlerisvj@... wrote: >> >> This is an FYI for anyone interested in getting their own Varney OSTUCO >> gondola with the special structure on the back. It is going on eBay at >> this moment. There are 2 gondolas on this auction and one of them is >> the special OSTUCO car. >> http://cgi.ebay.com/LOT-2-NICE-VARNEY-HO-GONDOLAS-MCRR-OHIO-SEAMLESS-/33\ >> 0564683737?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item4cf730c7d9 >> <This%20is%20an%20FYI%20for%20anyone%20interested%20in%20getting%20their\ >> %20own%20Varney%20OSTUCO%20gondola%20with%20the%20special%20structure%20\ >> on%20the%20back.%20%20It%20is%20going%20on%20eBay%20at%20this%20moment.%\ >> 20%20There%20are%202%20gondolas%20on%20this%20auction%20and%20one%20of%2\ >> 0them%20is%20the%20special%20OSTUCO%20car.%20http://cgi.ebay.com/LOT-2-N\ >> ICE-VARNEY-HO-GONDOLAS-MCRR-OHIO-SEAMLESS-/330564683737?pt=Model_RR_Trai\ >> ns&hash=item4cf730c7d9> >> Regards, Vic Bitleris >> > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16644	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 5/19/2011
Subject: Re: Varney OSTUCO gondola

As I mentioned in my other post, no, your post was definitely OK. What I do NOT want are commercial postings from dealers, or self promotion of your own auction. It is OK to offer something to the group first, and say "if nobody wants it it is going on eBay", but once you've put it up, leave it to someone else to point it out. The other thing I DON'T want to see is long lists of stuff for sale. If you have more than one or two items, mention you have it and ask others to contact you off list. Again, all the above applies as long it's of "vintage" interest. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: <bitlerisvj@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2011 9:33 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Varney OSTUCO gondola Hi, I certainly did not mean any harm to anyone, I am not aware of a policy like this on this group or any other group I belong to. In fact, many groups post something like this regularly, because a lot of folks in the list would have an interest. Don Dellman (owner/moderator) can clarify if I broke a rule or went against policy, but I don't believe I did. In fact the opening post for this group implies that notices like this are welcome. ----------------------------snip snip snip------------------------------------------------------ There's other groups out there, for collectors of Athearn, Varney, MDC and others, but I wanted to start one for just general good old HO from the past. This is the list for those who still run the good old HO of the past, Varney, Penn Line, Athearn metal, the list is virtually endless. Generally, I'm saying anything from the early 60's and before. Athearn Rubber band drive diesels, Varney NW-2's and F-3's, brass from Akane and MB Austin, extruded magnesium passenger cars from Samson. Varney cardstock and wood kits. MDC Metal. Whatever.... "On topic" are is HO that us "baby boomers" and our older mentors grew up with. Share with us the models you have and run. Photo attachments are welcome, as long as they're .jpg format. Sale or trade is great, as long as it's "vintage" HO. Thanks for joining us. Don ----------------------------snip snip snip------------------------------------------------------ --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Hud" <don_hud@...> wrote: > > I thought there was a policy against putting out these type of messages on this board about live auctions. This really does not benefit anyone but the seller. > > I had this auction already in my watch list, but I guess I can forget it now because I'm sure that it will go well above what I was willing to pay, and just judging from the looks of where it is now and the time left, it is well on it's way to reaching a premium price. > > I think that if anyone wanted one bad enough, they could do their own searching. > > Don > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, bitlerisvj@ wrote: > > > > This is an FYI for anyone interested in getting their own Varney OSTUCO > > gondola with the special structure on the back. It is going on eBay at > > this moment. There are 2 gondolas on this auction and one of them is > > the special OSTUCO car. > > http://cgi.ebay.com/LOT-2-NICE-VARNEY-HO-GONDOLAS-MCRR-OHIO-SEAMLESS-/33\ \ > > 0564683737?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item4cf730c7d9 > > <This%20is%20an%20FYI%20for%20anyone%20interested%20in%20getting%20their\ \ > > %20own%20Varney%20OSTUCO%20gondola%20with%20the%20special%20structure%20\ \ > > on%20the%20back.%20%20It%20is%20going%20on%20eBay%20at%20this%20moment.%\ \ > > 20%20There%20are%202%20gondolas%20on%20this%20auction%20and%20one%20of%2\ \ > > 0them%20is%20the%20special%20OSTUCO%20car.%20http://cgi.ebay.com/LOT-2-N\ \ > > ICE-VARNEY-HO-GONDOLAS-MCRR-OHIO-SEAMLESS-/330564683737?pt=Model_RR_Trai\ \ > > ns&hash=item4cf730c7d9> > > Regards, Vic Bitleris > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16645	From: Don Hud	Date: 5/19/2011
Subject: Re: Varney OSTUCO gondola

Well if the group owner says it's OK, then I guess there is no policy against it. But I know that several people have stated on here before that they do not announce live auctions and I think that their policy of not doing so is a good one. Bidding wars can get ugly, especially when they occur between group members. I know that I have been outbid on auctions before by other group members and that is OK, but if it happened because someone announced on here about a auction that I thought I found hidden under a poor description or something that there seemed to be no interest in, I would not be happy about it. Everybody has the same tools available for searching for vintage items on ebay, so why is it necessary to announce what you've found to everyone. People will suddenly relize that they must have that vintage piece that they had never even had any interest in before. And that likely will mean that someone will have to pay more to own it than they might have had to otherwise. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, bitlerisvj@... wrote: > > Hi, > I certainly did not mean any harm to anyone, I am not aware of a policy > like this on this group or any other group I belong to. In fact, many > groups post something like this regularly, because a lot of folks in the > list would have an interest. Don Dellman (owner/moderator) can clarify > if I broke a rule or went against policy, but I don't believe I did. In > fact the opening post for this group implies that notices like this are > welcome. > ----------------------------snip snip > snip------------------------------------------------------ > There's other groups out there, for collectors of Athearn, Varney, > MDC and others, but I wanted to start one for just general good old > HO from the past. > > This is the list for those who still run the good old HO of the past, > Varney, Penn Line, Athearn metal, the list is virtually endless. > > Generally, I'm saying anything from the early 60's and before. > Athearn Rubber band drive diesels, Varney NW-2's and F-3's, brass > from Akane and MB Austin, extruded magnesium passenger cars from > Samson. Varney cardstock and wood kits. MDC Metal. Whatever.... > > "On topic" are is HO that us "baby boomers" and our older mentors > grew up with. > > Share with us the models you have and run. Photo attachments are > welcome, as long as they're .jpg format. > > Sale or trade is great, as long as it's "vintage" HO. > > Thanks for joining us. > > Don > ----------------------------snip snip > snip------------------------------------------------------ > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Hud" <don_hud@> wrote: > > > > I thought there was a policy against putting out these type of > messages on this board about live auctions. This really does not > benefit anyone but the seller. > > > > I had this auction already in my watch list, but I guess I can forget > it now because I'm sure that it will go well above what I was willing to > pay, and just judging from the looks of where it is now and the time > left, it is well on it's way to reaching a premium price. > > > > I think that if anyone wanted one bad enough, they could do their own > searching. > > > > Don > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, bitlerisvj@ wrote: > > > > > > This is an FYI for anyone interested in getting their own Varney > OSTUCO > > > gondola with the special structure on the back. It is going on eBay > at > > > this moment. There are 2 gondolas on this auction and one of them > is > > > the special OSTUCO car. > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/LOT-2-NICE-VARNEY-HO-GONDOLAS-MCRR-OHIO-SEAMLESS-/33\ > \ > > > 0564683737?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item4cf730c7d9 > > > > <This%20is%20an%20FYI%20for%20anyone%20interested%20in%20getting%20their\ > \ > > > > %20own%20Varney%20OSTUCO%20gondola%20with%20the%20special%20structure%20\ > \ > > > > on%20the%20back.%20%20It%20is%20going%20on%20eBay%20at%20this%20moment.%\ > \ > > > > 20%20There%20are%202%20gondolas%20on%20this%20auction%20and%20one%20of%2\ > \ > > > > 0them%20is%20the%20special%20OSTUCO%20car.%20http://cgi.ebay.com/LOT-2-N\ > \ > > > > ICE-VARNEY-HO-GONDOLAS-MCRR-OHIO-SEAMLESS-/330564683737?pt=Model_RR_Trai\ > \ > > > ns&hash=item4cf730c7d9> > > > Regards, Vic Bitleris > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16646	From: cwrailman	Date: 5/20/2011
Subject: Building a Varney Coach Presentation

Don, While having my morning coffee and toast I went through your photo documentation covering the building of the Varney coach. Thanks for taking the time to put that together and posting it. I may never build such a car but it was interesting to see the progression of your work flow and habits. Like the part about not slicing the hand. HA! Like, who has not had that experience at some time! I wish more modelers would put together such presentations. Having done several photo documentations of builds myself, I am well aware of the complexities of putting one together. First you have to remember to photograph the step. The camera/tripod is usually occupying the space you normally occupy when working so you have to move your chair and set up the camera. Then you take a few photo's before you notice that someone in the family, or yourself, had used the camera for another purpose and all the settings are incorrect so you have to redo all the shots. And of course you want to use existing lighting so that means it will necessitate the use of a slow shutter speed. Then you go back to work for a while and back and forth. I know it takes time and that is one reason I appreciate such presentations. By the way, in several shots I noted the wine glass and it did not seem to be holding screws etc. Is that the reward or . Those of you who have not taken the time to review this presentation might consider doing so even if you have no interest in building the same or a similar kit. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/album/808036004/pic/list Thanks again, Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16647	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 5/20/2011
Subject: Re: Building a Varney Coach Presentation

Thanks for the kind words. I had done that one as much just to see if I could do a coherent presentation as to actually post it. I built over the course of a year about 7 or 8 of the Varney kits for another member on the list, and I kind of wanted to show him too what I was doing with his "treasures". As far as the wine glass, no, a day without wine is like a day without sunshine :-) (If I may say a word in my defense, you also noticed a photo or two included a coffee mug and a couple others a soda can.) Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "cwrailman" <cwrailman@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 10:04 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Building a Varney Coach Presentation Don, While having my morning coffee and toast I went through your photo documentation covering the building of the Varney coach. Thanks for taking the time to put that together and posting it. I may never build such a car but it was interesting to see the progression of your work flow and habits. Like the part about not slicing the hand. HA! Like, who has not had that experience at some time! I wish more modelers would put together such presentations. Having done several photo documentations of builds myself, I am well aware of the complexities of putting one together. First you have to remember to photograph the step. The camera/tripod is usually occupying the space you normally occupy when working so you have to move your chair and set up the camera. Then you take a few photo's before you notice that someone in the family, or yourself, had used the camera for another purpose and all the settings are incorrect so you have to redo all the shots. And of course you want to use existing lighting so that means it will necessitate the use of a slow shutter speed. Then you go back to work for a while and back and forth. I know it takes time and that is one reason I appreciate such presentations. By the way, in several shots I noted the wine glass and it did not seem to be holding screws etc. Is that the reward or ... Those of you who have not taken the time to review this presentation might consider doing so even if you have no interest in building the same or a similar kit. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/album/808036004/pic/list Thanks again, Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16648	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 5/20/2011
Subject: Re: Building a Varney Coach Presentation

Thanks for pointing this out Denny, I found it very enjoyable.  I really liked the way Don put this whole thing together, he made it look so simple and it was, it just did not appear that way when he started out with all of those old style parts.  Don did a great job.  Kinda makes me feel bad for not documenting my work on some of my projects.  Maybe I will do a future one with a LaBelle or an Ambroid kit? Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: cwrailman@... Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 15:04:24 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Building a Varney Coach Presentation   Don, While having my morning coffee and toast I went through your photo documentation covering the building of the Varney coach. Thanks for taking the time to put that together and posting it. I may never build such a car but it was interesting to see the progression of your work flow and habits. Like the part about not slicing the hand. HA! Like, who has not had that experience at some time! I wish more modelers would put together such presentations. Having done several photo documentations of builds myself, I am well aware of the complexities of putting one together. First you have to remember to photograph the step. The camera/tripod is usually occupying the space you normally occupy when working so you have to move your chair and set up the camera. Then you take a few photo's before you notice that someone in the family, or yourself, had used the camera for another purpose and all the settings are incorrect so you have to redo all the shots. And of course you want to use existing lighting so that means it will necessitate the use of a slow shutter speed. Then you go back to work for a while and back and forth. I know it takes time and that is one reason I appreciate such presentations. By the way, in several shots I noted the wine glass and it did not seem to be holding screws etc. Is that the reward or ……. Those of you who have not taken the time to review this presentation might consider doing so even if you have no interest in building the same or a similar kit. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/album/808036004/pic/list Thanks again, Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16649	From: Robert	Date: 5/20/2011
Subject: Hobbyline FM 10-44

Does anyone has photos of this loso in the black paint road names? Bob Blackwelder STOCKCREEK@...

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16650	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 5/21/2011
Subject: Re: Hobbyline FM 10-44

Attachments : H-10-44.jpg ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert" <STOCKCREEK@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 11:58 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Hobbyline FM 10-44 > > Does anyone has photos of this loso in the black paint road names? > > Bob Blackwelder STOCKCREEK@... > Here's mine before it got painted. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 16651	From: william witte	Date: 5/21/2011
Subject: Re: Hobbyline FM 10-44 [1 Attachment]

Bob,   B&O                   blue C&O                   blue AT&SF               black PRR                    black Lehigh Valley       tuscan UP                      yellow Hobbyline            black       Bill From: Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, May 21, 2011 5:36:59 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Hobbyline FM 10-44 [1 Attachment]   ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert" <STOCKCREEK@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 11:58 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Hobbyline FM 10-44 > > Does anyone has photos of this loso in the black paint road names? > > Bob Blackwelder STOCKCREEK@... > Here's mine before it got painted. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16652	From: antiquestoyscollectibles	Date: 5/22/2011
Subject: Tenshodo & Japan Brass Trains

Hi All: I recently acquired a LARGE train collection. I was thinking of keeping the Japan Brass part of the collection as an investment for the future. Does anyone think the values of the Japan Brass will go up due to the Tsunami? Thanks! Dana

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16653	From: John Barlow	Date: 5/22/2011
Subject: Re: Tenshodo & Japan Brass Trains

Not if they are duplicated later by the South Korean makers with improved detail. It also really depends upon the uniqueness of the prototype modeled. Some pieces are done up the ying-yang...others are really rare. The Japanaese got out of the business several decades ago, if I'm correct.   John --- On Sun, 5/22/11, antiquestoyscollectibles <antiquestoyscollectibles@...> wrote: From: antiquestoyscollectibles <antiquestoyscollectibles@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Tenshodo & Japan Brass Trains To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, May 22, 2011, 9:58 PM   Hi All: I recently acquired a LARGE train collection. I was thinking of keeping the Japan Brass part of the collection as an investment for the future. Does anyone think the values of the Japan Brass will go up due to the Tsunami? Thanks! Dana

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16654	From: Glenn	Date: 5/22/2011
Subject: Re: Tenshodo & Japan Brass Trains

no--two reasons: 1--the models involved were exported to the US many years ago--long before that tsunami happened. 2--most of the brass manufacturing has gone to Korea for the last 25 years. gj -----Original Message----- From: antiquestoyscollectibles Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2011 8:58 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Tenshodo & Japan Brass Trains Hi All: I recently acquired a LARGE train collection. I was thinking of keeping the Japan Brass part of the collection as an investment for the future. Does anyone think the values of the Japan Brass will go up due to the Tsunami? Thanks! Dana ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16655	From: ablecynic	Date: 5/23/2011
Subject: Re: Tenshodo & Japan Brass Trains

Dana, As a brass collector I would agree with the other posts that responded to your question. The issue of brass "collectability" is always debated in forums, but in general, US prototypes that were made by the big makers and imported by PFM or Westside are worth more than the earlier imports, even if by the same makers. The Japanese still make brass models for local consumption, but even those are now much more accurate than the ones in the 1960s. Some early brass locos were of "scaled proportions" but not to an exact scale. The US importers moved to Korean brass in the 70s and 80s because the prices of the Japanese models went sky high as the dollar declined against the Yen. The drop in the dollar against almost all the Eastern currencies has pretty well killed the brass market. PFM locos by United, especially of large steam, are still commanding high prices, but items with modern competition, such as the HOn3 K-27 (which PFM and Westide brought in by the hundreds) are going for the same price as the Blackstone K-27s. If you like brass, keep it. There won't be much more coming in and some of the early brass locos will never be repeated. But the disaster in Japan won't affect prices here at all. Matt Coleman --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "antiquestoyscollectibles" <antiquestoyscollectibles@...> wrote: > > Hi All: > > > I recently acquired a LARGE train collection. I was thinking of keeping the Japan Brass part of the collection as an investment for the future. Does anyone think the values of the Japan Brass will go up due to the Tsunami? > > Thanks! > Dana >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16656	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 5/23/2011
Subject: Re: Tenshodo & Japan Brass Trains

Dana,   If I may weigh in a little. I love the brass locomotives myself, however, I may be wrong here and I hope I am, but I suspect in about15-20 years the bottom will fall out on the HO train market for reasons I do not wish to discuss as they are looming over all  of us ...eventually.   I myself am relatively young when it comes to HO train collectors of any type, brass, die cast or plastic. I am soon to be 41 and most guys my age are not into trains and even fewer younger than I are. Today's kids don't even care what an HO train is, let alone a brass one.   I sell on feebay all the time and my advice is simple. If you paid a good price for the lot, starting this fall, between the months of October and March, sell them all one at a time. If any are damaged or missing parts in any way, sell them one part at a time and allow others the chance to repair the engines they have that need the parts. You'll turn a profit that way for sure. The following is my opinion, but it works for me: Sell on Sunday evenings as it is usually the best night, i also like Tuesdays and Thursdays. Avoid holiday weekends, any morning or afternoon listing times, Friday & Saturday (day & night) listing times as most people are busy during that time. Mondays are usually not so good either...not sure why as I think it has to do with the start of the work week missery.   Best times to list are between the hours of 9:00 pm & 11:00 pm EST. This allows the entire country time to see the auctions end. If you end it earlier, you are missing out on the west coast which will be dealing with the work day or rush hour or other afternoon or early evening activities.   I would not count on prices getting better for a long time due to the economy and by the time the economy comes back.. who knows when that will be.   Otherwise keep them and enjoy them.   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: ablecynic <mattjcoleman@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, May 23, 2011 7:52:59 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Tenshodo & Japan Brass Trains   Dana, As a brass collector I would agree with the other posts that responded to your question. The issue of brass "collectability" is always debated in forums, but in general, US prototypes that were made by the big makers and imported by PFM or Westside are worth more than the earlier imports, even if by the same makers. The Japanese still make brass models for local consumption, but even those are now much more accurate than the ones in the 1960s. Some early brass locos were of "scaled proportions" but not to an exact scale. The US importers moved to Korean brass in the 70s and 80s because the prices of the Japanese models went sky high as the dollar declined against the Yen. The drop in the dollar against almost all the Eastern currencies has pretty well killed the brass market. PFM locos by United, especially of large steam, are still commanding high prices, but items with modern competition, such as the HOn3 K-27 (which PFM and Westide brought in by the hundreds) are going for the same price as the Blackstone K-27s. If you like brass, keep it. There won't be much more coming in and some of the early brass locos will never be repeated. But the disaster in Japan won't affect prices here at all. Matt Coleman --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "antiquestoyscollectibles" <antiquestoyscollectibles@...> wrote: > > Hi All: > > > I recently acquired a LARGE train collection. I was thinking of keeping the Japan Brass part of the collection as an investment for the future. Does anyone think the values of the Japan Brass will go up due to the Tsunami? > > Thanks! > Dana > Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post | Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (4) Recent Activity: New Members 3 New Photos 2 New Files 1 Visit Your Group Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest • Unsubscribe • Terms of Use

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16657	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 5/23/2011
Subject: Re: Tenshodo & Japan Brass Trains

Maybe you should also ask the brasscollectors Yahoo chat group. I belong to both. IMHO, the tsunami will have no effect on the market value of old Japan brass, but that is only this man's opinion, and I am not a dealer. Walter On Sun, May 22, 2011 at 11:58 PM, antiquestoyscollectibles <antiquestoyscollectibles@...> wrote:   Hi All: I recently acquired a LARGE train collection. I was thinking of keeping the Japan Brass part of the collection as an investment for the future. Does anyone think the values of the Japan Brass will go up due to the Tsunami? Thanks! Dana

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16658	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 5/23/2011
Subject: Re: Tenshodo & Japan Brass Trains

Sean's response about selling on "feebay", as he calls it, is right on. Walter On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 11:02 AM, Walter Bayer II <bayerw2@...> wrote: Maybe you should also ask the brasscollectors Yahoo chat group. I belong to both. IMHO, the tsunami will have no effect on the market value of old Japan brass, but that is only this man's opinion, and I am not a dealer. Walter On Sun, May 22, 2011 at 11:58 PM, antiquestoyscollectibles <antiquestoyscollectibles@...> wrote:   Hi All: I recently acquired a LARGE train collection. I was thinking of keeping the Japan Brass part of the collection as an investment for the future. Does anyone think the values of the Japan Brass will go up due to the Tsunami? Thanks! Dana -- Regards, Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16659	From: cwrailman	Date: 5/23/2011
Subject: Re: Tenshodo & Japan Brass Trains

You might be better off asking this question on the HO Brass board. Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "antiquestoyscollectibles" <antiquestoyscollectibles@...> wrote: > > Hi All: > > > I recently acquired a LARGE train collection. I was thinking of keeping the Japan Brass part of the collection as an investment for the future. Does anyone think the values of the Japan Brass will go up due to the Tsunami? > > Thanks! > Dana >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16660	From: cwrailman	Date: 5/23/2011
Subject: Re: Tenshodo & Japan Brass Trains

You might be better off asking this question on the HO Brass board. Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "antiquestoyscollectibles" <antiquestoyscollectibles@...> wrote: > > Hi All: > > > I recently acquired a LARGE train collection. I was thinking of keeping the Japan Brass part of the collection as an investment for the future. Does anyone think the values of the Japan Brass will go up due to the Tsunami? > > Thanks! > Dana >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16661	From: cwrailman	Date: 5/23/2011
Subject: Re: Tenshodo & Japan Brass Trains

Dana, I doubt the Tsunami will have any effect on the Brass market but there are other factors involved that will and have. As an owner and dealer in brass what we saw about two years ago was a reduction in the prices of brass by approximately 25-30%. That is in the prices the models were changing hands at, not what some dealers were asking. Even prior to that market adjustment, some items that were being reproduced in plastic such as the Brass K series Narrow Gauge locos lost approximately 25% when the plastic Blackstone models came out. Other locos like the Gem Ma&Pa 4-6-0 lost about 35% then Bachman came out with the plastic version. The PFM/United Russian Decapod also took a 25-30% reduction when Bachman came out with the plastic version. Decapodes that were formerly selling around $250-300 are now selling for $175-200 with some Ebay sales as low as $135 and one recently sold by a brass dealer in Indiana for $99. What we are also witnessing is a shift in the interest of brass. Many modelers model what they remember seeing as a kid or what they currently see. Anybody born after 1955 pretty much focuses on diesels. Yes a few do have an interest in steam but more are into diesels. This move in that direction is gaining momentum every year. Ironically though, the market for small rod driven logging type loco's has remained strong. That may change if someone comes out with a good running plastic model that can pull more than just it's shadow. Besides these factors, modelers are getting lazy. Brass models require a bit of attention and periodic servicing to keep them running properly. Many modelers today do not want to devote time to this service so they go for the RTR products. In the past brass models appreciated an average of 5% per year. Not bad. That has not been the case for about 5 years now. If I may suggest that you inventory all that you have, find out what it is currently worth. ( Not what dealers are asking, but what they are actually changing hands at.) Sell off enough to recoup your investment and then you can consider what to do with the rest. When I was dealing in brass on a regular basis, that is exactly what I did. What part of the country do you live? Maybe I can put you in touch with someone who can provide assistance. Now back to the shops, Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "antiquestoyscollectibles" <antiquestoyscollectibles@...> wrote: > > Hi All: > > > I recently acquired a LARGE train collection. I was thinking of keeping the Japan Brass part of the collection as an investment for the future. Does anyone think the values of the Japan Brass will go up due to the Tsunami? > > Thanks! > Dana >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16662	From: jim heckard	Date: 5/23/2011
Subject: Conover Valve Gear Parts

Attachments : IMG_7053_3.JPG IMG_7051_2.JPG IMG_7048_1.JPG                 Many members know a while back I started to build a 1938 Conover 2-10-2 kit. It was to say the least one of the worst finishes on the parts. This was just not dirt or grim that could be wire brushed off but a sandy like finish that had to be filed and sanded to a smooth, polished finish.  There were certain small  detail parts missing but by searching around I found most of the original parts needed. It wasn't easy.         The main missing part is the original Baker valve gear. I have the original main and side rods but the little parts for assembling the valve gear were not with it. Since I like my vintage collection pieces as close to original as possible I put the engine on the shelf while I searched some more. I didn't hold out much hope for an engine made in 1938. If I had no luck after a while I planned to substitute another companies Baker Valve gear. I'm in no hurry and have waited months to find original parts for other engines.       Today in the mail I received some of the little parts. There are 6 different ones you need and I now have three of them. (The first picture shows the parts sent to me above the page from a Conover catalog showing all 6. Next picture, although poor because it was to small to photograph, shows you need 2 of each of the six parts to complete the assembly of the valve gear. Last picture is the Conover 2-10-2 sitting on the shelf at the point where I have finished it so far awaiting the valve gear.       Now since I found some of the valve gear parts I will wait a little longer in the hope of finding more. There are a few other details needed like handrail / stanchions and some steam pipes ( you make to size ) from the cylinder saddle to the boiler.        The last thing I  need and will be very hard to find is the larger Mantua pre war 6 volt motor that Conover used. No hurry lots of time. It took me 4 years to get all the original parts  to completely finish my Winton 2-6-6-6  Allegheny. I just got both original tender trucks 2 months ago.        Patience is the name of the game.                                                 Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 16663	From: ablecynic	Date: 5/23/2011
Subject: Re: Tenshodo & Japan Brass Trains

Dana, I agree with Sean, if you aren't a hard-core collector who loves the trains just for what they are, then you are better off to sell them just as he has advised. Sean's tips for selling on eBay are excellent and 'worth the price of admission' as they say. V/r Matt --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > Dana, > > If I may weigh in a little. I love the brass locomotives myself, however, I may > be wrong here and I hope I am, but I suspect in about15-20 years the bottom will > fall out on the HO train market for reasons I do not wish to discuss as they are > looming over all  of us ...eventually. > > > I myself am relatively young when it comes to HO train collectors of any type, > brass, die cast or plastic. I am soon to be 41 and most guys my age are not into > trains and even fewer younger than I are. Today's kids don't even care what an > HO train is, let alone a brass one. > > I sell on feebay all the time and my advice is simple. If you paid a good price > for the lot, starting this fall, between the months of October and March, sell > them all one at a time. If any are damaged or missing parts in any way, sell > them one part at a time and allow others the chance to repair the engines they > have that need the parts. You'll turn a profit that way for sure. The following > is my opinion, but it works for me: Sell on Sunday evenings as it is usually the > best night, i also like Tuesdays and Thursdays. Avoid holiday weekends, any > morning or afternoon listing times, Friday & Saturday (day & night) listing > times as most people are busy during that time. Mondays are usually not so good > either...not sure why as I think it has to do with the start of the work week > missery. > > > Best times to list are between the hours of 9:00 pm & 11:00 pm EST. This allows > the entire country time to see the auctions end. If you end it earlier, you are > missing out on the west coast which will be dealing with the work day or rush > hour or other afternoon or early evening activities. > > > I would not count on prices getting better for a long time due to the economy > and by the time the economy comes back.. who knows when that will be. > > Otherwise keep them and enjoy them. >  Sean > > > "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario > Andretti! >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16664	From: Glenn	Date: 5/23/2011
Subject: Re: Tenshodo & Japan Brass Trains

My opinion is that one should buy a brass loco (or other item) because you like the item--and intend to use it for its intended purpose. Not to make money on it. In all probability, I would laugh if someone offered the prices I have seen asked for certain models I have--gj -----Original Message----- From: ablecynic Sent: Monday, May 23, 2011 11:03 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Tenshodo & Japan Brass Trains Dana, I agree with Sean, if you aren't a hard-core collector who loves the trains just for what they are, then you are better off to sell them just as he has advised. Sean's tips for selling on eBay are excellent and 'worth the price of admission' as they say. V/r Matt --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > Dana, > > If I may weigh in a little. I love the brass locomotives myself, > however, I may > be wrong here and I hope I am, but I suspect in about15-20 years the > bottom will > fall out on the HO train market for reasons I do not wish to discuss as > they are > looming over all of us ...eventually. > > > I myself am relatively young when it comes to HO train collectors of any > type, > brass, die cast or plastic. I am soon to be 41 and most guys my age are > not into > trains and even fewer younger than I are. Today's kids don't even care > what an > HO train is, let alone a brass one. > > I sell on feebay all the time and my advice is simple. If you paid a good > price > for the lot, starting this fall, between the months of October and March, > sell > them all one at a time. If any are damaged or missing parts in any way, > sell > them one part at a time and allow others the chance to repair the engines > they > have that need the parts. You'll turn a profit that way for sure. The > following > is my opinion, but it works for me: Sell on Sunday evenings as it is > usually the > best night, i also like Tuesdays and Thursdays. Avoid holiday weekends, > any > morning or afternoon listing times, Friday & Saturday (day & night) > listing > times as most people are busy during that time. Mondays are usually not so > good > either...not sure why as I think it has to do with the start of the work > week > missery. > > > Best times to list are between the hours of 9:00 pm & 11:00 pm EST. This > allows > the entire country time to see the auctions end. If you end it earlier, > you are > missing out on the west coast which will be dealing with the work day or > rush > hour or other afternoon or early evening activities. > > > I would not count on prices getting better for a long time due to the > economy > and by the time the economy comes back.. who knows when that will be. > > Otherwise keep them and enjoy them. >  Sean > > > "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario > Andretti! > ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16665	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 5/23/2011
Subject: Re: Tenshodo & Japan Brass Trains

This thread reminds me of a speech Howard Zane gave to us back in 2004 at Hagerstown.  He said that if you like the locomotive and it is the right price for you, go ahead and buy it.  It may or may not go up in value, but if you are expecting to use it as an investment, you are way better off in the stock market.  One thing he wanted us all to be aware of; that there are significant differences between the quality and detail in brass locomotives and just because it is brass, doesn't make it valuable.  The valuable locomotives may not even be good runners, but they have a significant amount of fine details.  Kind of like the difference between costume jewelry and fine jewelry.  If you want to know the difference of the jewelry I mentioned, just ask your wives or girlfriends.  They will know that stuff cold.  Have fun, and regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: glenn476@... Date: Mon, 23 May 2011 12:57:47 -0700 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Tenshodo & Japan Brass Trains   My opinion is that one should buy a brass loco (or other item) because you like the item--and intend to use it for its intended purpose. Not to make money on it. In all probability, I would laugh if someone offered the prices I have seen asked for certain models I have--gj -----Original Message----- From: ablecynic Sent: Monday, May 23, 2011 11:03 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Tenshodo & Japan Brass Trains Dana, I agree with Sean, if you aren't a hard-core collector who loves the trains just for what they are, then you are better off to sell them just as he has advised. Sean's tips for selling on eBay are excellent and 'worth the price of admission' as they say. V/r Matt --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > Dana, > > If I may weigh in a little. I love the brass locomotives myself, > however, I may > be wrong here and I hope I am, but I suspect in about15-20 years the > bottom will > fall out on the HO train market for reasons I do not wish to discuss as > they are > looming over all of us ...eventually. > > > I myself am relatively young when it comes to HO train collectors of any > type, > brass, die cast or plastic. I am soon to be 41 and most guys my age are > not into > trains and even fewer younger than I are. Today's kids don't even care > what an > HO train is, let alone a brass one. > > I sell on feebay all the time and my advice is simple. If you paid a good > price > for the lot, starting this fall, between the months of October and March, > sell > them all one at a time. If any are damaged or missing parts in any way, > sell > them one part at a time and allow others the chance to repair the engines > they > have that need the parts. You'll turn a profit that way for sure. The > following > is my opinion, but it works for me: Sell on Sunday evenings as it is > usually the > best night, i also like Tuesdays and Thursdays. Avoid holiday weekends, > any > morning or afternoon listing times, Friday & Saturday (day & night) > listing > times as most people are busy during that time. Mondays are usually not so > good > either...not sure why as I think it has to do with the start of the work > week > missery. > > > Best times to list are between the hours of 9:00 pm & 11:00 pm EST. This > allows > the entire country time to see the auctions end. If you end it earlier, > you are > missing out on the west coast which will be dealing with the work day or > rush > hour or other afternoon or early evening activities. > > > I would not count on prices getting better for a long time due to the > economy > and by the time the economy comes back.. who knows when that will be. > > Otherwise keep them and enjoy them. >  Sean > > > "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario > Andretti! > ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16666	From: Jim Waterman	Date: 5/23/2011
Subject: Re: Tenshodo & Japan Brass Trains

I'd keep it if you like it. Keep an eye out for pricing - some models are more rare and go for higher $. Finish and condition count. Engines with a quality custom paint will command a decent buck. Check and make sure the foam inside the boxes isn't disintegrating and sticking to the model, can be a real mess. There is a collectors market for some of Tenshodo's models, especially the 'Crown' series, which were limited runs of some unusual engines, or higher detailed versions of more common ones. In years past, the Japanese were buying up Japanese made brass, regardless of prototype. Not sure if that trend has continued. Jim Waterman

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16667	From: Richard White	Date: 5/23/2011
Subject: Re: Conover Valve Gear Parts [3 Attachments]

You've got the right attitude Jim- and lots of patience. I enjoy reading about your progress on the Conover loco. Regards- Richard White   To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: jimheck@... Date: Mon, 23 May 2011 13:56:34 -0400 Subject: [vintageHO] Conover Valve Gear Parts [3 Attachments]   [Attachment(s) from jim heckard included below]                 Many members know a while back I started to build a 1938 Conover 2-10-2 kit. It was to say the least one of the worst finishes on the parts. This was just not dirt or grim that could be wire brushed off but a sandy like finish that had to be filed and sanded to a smooth, polished finish.  There were certain small  detail parts missing but by searching around I found most of the original parts needed. It wasn't easy.         The main missing part is the original Baker valve gear. I have the original main and side rods but the little parts for assembling the valve gear were not with it. Since I like my vintage collection pieces as close to original as possible I put the engine on the shelf while I searched some more. I didn't hold out much hope for an engine made in 1938. If I had no luck after a while I planned to substitute another companies Baker Valve gear. I'm in no hurry and have waited months to find original parts for other engines.       Today in the mail I received some of the little parts. There are 6 different ones you need and I now have three of them. (The first picture shows the parts sent to me above the page from a Conover catalog showing all 6. Next picture, although poor because it was to small to photograph, shows you need 2 of each of the six parts to complete the assembly of the valve gear. Last picture is the Conover 2-10-2 sitting on the shelf at the point where I have finished it so far awaiting the valve gear.       Now since I found some of the valve gear parts I will wait a little longer in the hope of finding more. There are a few other details needed like handrail / stanchions and some steam pipes ( you make to size ) from the cylinder saddle to the boiler.        The last thing I  need and will be very hard to find is the larger Mantua pre war 6 volt motor that Conover used. No hurry lots of time. It took me 4 years to get all the original parts  to completely finish my Winton 2-6-6-6  Allegheny. I just got both original tender trucks 2 months ago.        Patience is the name of the game.                                                 Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16668	From: Glenn	Date: 5/23/2011
Subject: Re: Tenshodo & Japan Brass Trains

keep in mind that American-prototype models were made under contract with an imorter, who paid for the tooling. A builder who tried to sell on the local market would soon find himself out of the business. GI's often tried to buy locos in Japan and found this out--as did others who tried to buy there--The only Japanese-built brass the Japanese were buying would be that shipped to the US. Condition: If a model is mechanically sound but has a less-than-satisfactory paint job, I negotiate a lower price based on having to repaint it. "Crown" and similarly labeled models generally had a professional factory paint job. gj -----Original Message----- From: Jim Waterman Sent: Monday, May 23, 2011 5:22 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Tenshodo & Japan Brass Trains I'd keep it if you like it. Keep an eye out for pricing - some models are more rare and go for higher $. Finish and condition count. Engines with a quality custom paint will command a decent buck. Check and make sure the foam inside the boxes isn't disintegrating and sticking to the model, can be a real mess. There is a collectors market for some of Tenshodo's models, especially the 'Crown' series, which were limited runs of some unusual engines, or higher detailed versions of more common ones. In years past, the Japanese were buying up Japanese made brass, regardless of prototype. Not sure if that trend has continued. Jim Waterman ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16669	From: erieberk	Date: 5/23/2011
Subject: Re: Conover Valve Gear Parts

Jim, We well know you've not only started, but have come an exceedingly long way in building your 1938 Conover B&O S-1 kit. You've done a magnificent job with it so far, with all the time and care you've put into it, and no doubt will finish it up in the same manner. As there are several different styles of Baker valve gear, this is where it gets difficult in determining which to use, if trying to improvise. As you mention now having three of the "6" valve gear parts, may I assume that you now also have the Valve Gear Hangers (2; forward and aft) and the Hanger Brackets (Horizontal and Verticle)? Since sending you the copy of the original pre-War Conover Catalog, I've since came into possession of the post-War Conover S-1 Catalog offered when Baldwin Model Locomotive Works of Greenwich, Connecticut was marketing this engine. This catalog is a much larger format -- 9" x 11" -- and has scale drawings of the mechanism and superstructure, with a parts list, and drawings of the valve gear hanger arrangement and assembled valve gear. Several large photos of finished engines are also included, and full step-by-step instruction are printed out for assembling the kit -- not that you need that part < g >. While, for some unknown reason, the catalog numbers of the pre-War and post-War valve gear catalog numbers differ, both versions agree that besides the hangers and brackets already mentioned above, there are 7 pieces to the valve gear assembly not 6. They are as follows, below the first four major parts, first with pre-War number then followed by the post-War number where indicated: L-243 Forward Valve Gear Hanger (Yolk) -- one required L-244 Aft Valve Gear Hanger -- one required V-100 Verticle Hanger Bracket -- two required V-101 Horizontal Hanger Bracket -- two required V-102 (V-986) Eccentric Rod -- two required V-103 (V-984) Radius Rod -- two required V-104 (V-982) Combination Lever -- two required V-105 Reverse Lever -- two required V-106 (V-985) Radius Link) -- two required V-107 (V-983) Crosshead Link -- two required V-108 Reverse Linkage -- four required V-109 (V-987) Eccentric Crank - two required You'll note in the second portion of the listing -- of the actual valve gear parts (aside from the hangers and brackets) -- that I've listed 8 different parts. The V-108 Reverse Linkage is non-operational and is not "linked" in connection with the other (moveable) parts of the valve gear, but is instead included just as detail attached (soldered) to the Horizontal Hanger Bracket; it's not needed in the operation of the mechanism but is included as part of the original kit's version for completeness and followed through in the post-War engine. If I can be of help in sending you copies of this later catalog, just let me know. I believe the scale superstructure drawings alone would help you in the placement of the piping. As my printer is down, I'd need time to get to the local library to copy the pages, so please bear with me on that. Incidentally, the post-War version uses a Pittman DC-71 motor as per the catalog. I recall your prior wishes of obtaining ANY Conover 2-10-2, pre or post War. I realize it's always best to build a kit the way it was originally meant to be, but for possible "modern, 12 volt" operation of post-War models, the DC-71 is perfectly allowable for this model unless it's never meant to run (or risk burning up a 6 volt motor). Ray F. W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > > > > > Many members know a while back I started to build a 1938 Conover 2-10-2 kit. It was to say the least one of the worst finishes on the parts. This was just not dirt or grim that could be wire brushed off but a sandy like finish that had to be filed and sanded to a smooth, polished finish. There were certain small detail parts missing but by searching around I found most of the original parts needed. It wasn't easy. > > The main missing part is the original Baker valve gear. I have the original main and side rods but the little parts for assembling the valve gear were not with it. Since I like my vintage collection pieces as close to original as possible I put the engine on the shelf while I searched some more. I didn't hold out much hope for an engine made in 1938. If I had no luck after a while I planned to substitute another companies Baker Valve gear. I'm in no hurry and have waited months to find original parts for other engines. > > Today in the mail I received some of the little parts. There are 6 different ones you need and I now have three of them. (The first picture shows the parts sent to me above the page from a Conover catalog showing all 6. Next picture, although poor because it was to small to photograph, shows you need 2 of each of the six parts to complete the assembly of the valve gear. Last picture is the Conover 2-10-2 sitting on the shelf at the point where I have finished it so far awaiting the valve gear. > > Now since I found some of the valve gear parts I will wait a little longer in the hope of finding more. There are a few other details needed like handrail / stanchions and some steam pipes ( you make to size ) from the cylinder saddle to the boiler. > > The last thing I need and will be very hard to find is the larger Mantua pre war 6 volt motor that Conover used. No hurry lots of time. It took me 4 years to get all the original parts to completely finish my Winton 2-6-6-6 Allegheny. I just got both original tender trucks 2 months ago. > > Patience is the name of the game. > > > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16670	From: jim heckard	Date: 5/24/2011
Subject: Re: Conover Valve Gear Parts

Hi Ray F W ,             Good to hear from you. Thank you for all the information you sent, which I will print out, concerning the valve gear parts. As you know one of the biggest problems with this Conover project has been the lack of information ( good detail drawings with measurements or any instructional paperwork ) A lot has been guess work. Other then that first little Conover catalog copy you sent me which is very small and the small pictures hard to distinguish much and the set of updated drawings from I think it's 1959 ( not exactly to scale and no measurements ) has made things slow going. I'm leery of going to quickly and do  it wrong.        Any information or copies you can send me from the post war Conover S-1 offered when Baldwin Locomotive works was marketing this engine would be outstanding. Having more detailed 9" x 11" scale drawings which also shows the assembled valve gear and a close up of the valve gear hanger arrangement would be like a Christmas present. This way I will know exactly where I am at.  ( I have the valve gear hangers )       As for the motor I would like the Mantua 6 volt as that would help date the engine pre war. I won't be running this Conover engine other then to test it but I will keep the post war DC-71 motor in mind.      I fully understand that you can't copy things now and there is no real hurry. I have some medical problems right now making it hard to work on real small parts anyway. In fact I'm headed to a doctor appointment very shortly.WHEN you can copy those plans, and I don't mean I need them yesterday, I would be very appreciative and only to glad to cover cost and postage.                                             Thanks again                                              Jim H                     ----- Original Message ----- From: erieberk To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 12:20 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Conover Valve Gear Parts   Jim, We well know you've not only started, but have come an exceedingly long way in building your 1938 Conover B&O S-1 kit. You've done a magnificent job with it so far, with all the time and care you've put into it, and no doubt will finish it up in the same manner. As there are several different styles of Baker valve gear, this is where it gets difficult in determining which to use, if trying to improvise. As you mention now having three of the "6" valve gear parts, may I assume that you now also have the Valve Gear Hangers (2; forward and aft) and the Hanger Brackets (Horizontal and Verticle)? Since sending you the copy of the original pre-War Conover Catalog, I've since came into possession of the post-War Conover S-1 Catalog offered when Baldwin Model Locomotive Works of Greenwich, Connecticut was marketing this engine. This catalog is a much larger format -- 9" x 11" -- and has scale drawings of the mechanism and superstructure, with a parts list, and drawings of the valve gear hanger arrangement and assembled valve gear. Several large photos of finished engines are also included, and full step-by-step instruction are printed out for assembling the kit -- not that you need that part < g >. While, for some unknown reason, the catalog numbers of the pre-War and post-War valve gear catalog numbers differ, both versions agree that besides the hangers and brackets already mentioned above, there are 7 pieces to the valve gear assembly not 6. They are as follows, below the first four major parts, first with pre-War number then followed by the post-War number where indicated: L-243 Forward Valve Gear Hanger (Yolk) -- one required L-244 Aft Valve Gear Hanger -- one required V-100 Verticle Hanger Bracket -- two required V-101 Horizontal Hanger Bracket -- two required V-102 (V-986) Eccentric Rod -- two required V-103 (V-984) Radius Rod -- two required V-104 (V-982) Combination Lever -- two required V-105 Reverse Lever -- two required V-106 (V-985) Radius Link) -- two required V-107 (V-983) Crosshead Link -- two required V-108 Reverse Linkage -- four required V-109 (V-987) Eccentric Crank - two required You'll note in the second portion of the listing -- of the actual valve gear parts (aside from the hangers and brackets) -- that I've listed 8 different parts. The V-108 Reverse Linkage is non-operational and is not "linked" in connection with the other (moveable) parts of the valve gear, but is instead included just as detail attached (soldered) to the Horizontal Hanger Bracket; it's not needed in the operation of the mechanism but is included as part of the original kit's version for completeness and followed through in the post-War engine. If I can be of help in sending you copies of this later catalog, just let me know. I believe the scale superstructure drawings alone would help you in the placement of the piping. As my printer is down, I'd need time to get to the local library to copy the pages, so please bear with me on that. Incidentally, the post-War version uses a Pittman DC-71 motor as per the catalog. I recall your prior wishes of obtaining ANY Conover 2-10-2, pre or post War. I realize it's always best to build a kit the way it was originally meant to be, but for possible "modern, 12 volt" operation of post-War models, the DC-71 is perfectly allowable for this model unless it's never meant to run (or risk burning up a 6 volt motor). Ray F. W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > > > > > Many members know a while back I started to build a 1938 Conover 2-10-2 kit. It was to say the least one of the worst finishes on the parts. This was just not dirt or grim that could be wire brushed off but a sandy like finish that had to be filed and sanded to a smooth, polished finish. There were certain small detail parts missing but by searching around I found most of the original parts needed. It wasn't easy. > > The main missing part is the original Baker valve gear. I have the original main and side rods but the little parts for assembling the valve gear were not with it. Since I like my vintage collection pieces as close to original as possible I put the engine on the shelf while I searched some more. I didn't hold out much hope for an engine made in 1938. If I had no luck after a while I planned to substitute another companies Baker Valve gear. I'm in no hurry and have waited months to find original parts for other engines. > > Today in the mail I received some of the little parts. There are 6 different ones you need and I now have three of them. (The first picture shows the parts sent to me above the page from a Conover catalog showing all 6. Next picture, although poor because it was to small to photograph, shows you need 2 of each of the six parts to complete the assembly of the valve gear. Last picture is the Conover 2-10-2 sitting on the shelf at the point where I have finished it so far awaiting the valve gear. > > Now since I found some of the valve gear parts I will wait a little longer in the hope of finding more. There are a few other details needed like handrail / stanchions and some steam pipes ( you make to size ) from the cylinder saddle to the boiler. > > The last thing I need and will be very hard to find is the larger Mantua pre war 6 volt motor that Conover used. No hurry lots of time. It took me 4 years to get all the original parts to completely finish my Winton 2-6-6-6 Allegheny. I just got both original tender trucks 2 months ago. > > Patience is the name of the game. > > > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16671	From: erieberk	Date: 5/24/2011
Subject: Re: Conover Valve Gear Parts

Jim, Haven't had much to add to the recent discussions, as I'm not a brass collector even though I've acquired some over the years. I'm not into LaBelle, as they don't fit my needs, although I feel they're great models. I don't really feel that imported brass (even early brass) would be considered as "vintage" H0 in the same category as are American made locos, as my belief is that primarily only cast brass/bronze and/or cast zamak (or a combo of both), by U.S. manufacturers are considered as such, including the sheet brass (with cast zamak) of Mantua -- as far as early engine kits go -- but I realize this is only my opinion. The smaller (first) Conover catalog is 1939 (pre-War), not 1959, but I'm assuming this was just a typo you wrote. Had to clarify it though, for all the readers here. You did best not to rush things with your S-1, but without much to go by, your guesswork paid off. This latest catalog (I guess I should call it an instruction manual) is much more helpful in putting their engine together, but then a catalog is not really meant for this same purpose. Aside from the very helpful dialog and pics, we can add a bit to the eventual history of Conover with it, in knowing that the original manufacturer (Conover) was taken over after the War by Baldwin Model Locomotive Works, P.O. Box 1225, Greenwich, Connecticut. As this present Baldwin Model Loco manual I have has been revised by the individual who wound up buying at least a good portion of the inventory and tooling from Baldwin (we figured last year that there were at least two independent individuals involved in the buy-out), these instructions are dated from 1949 (no month mentioned) to December 26, 1954 -- as per the signed and dated drawings -- much like James Trout did for Varney. The address of this latest producer of the Conover 2-10-2 -- Clark A. Benson -- at this time was 99 Edison Street, Stratford, Conn. Even a phone number was supplied: Phone -- ED-7-0603. Remember the early phone numbers with the first two letters of the Exchange? There was no dial tone -- we'd have to wait for the operator to ask us "Number please?" Then we'd say, "Edison-7- . . . " or whatever. So at least we know this model was offered up until the end of 1954 -- at $19.95 for the rough casting kit (loco & tender), or $65 ($55 when still Baldwin Model Works) for an unmachined (undrilled) but smoothed casting kit, or $95 ($75 when still Baldwin Model Works) for a built-up, ready to run, unpainted model. I'll try to get a copy of this out to you within the week -- lots of good info here. You may want to consider looking for a 6 volt D.C. power pack on eBay to occasionally switch out your 12 volt source, to be able to run your Conover. In fact, you could then run any of your pre-War Varney and Mantua without fear of seeing the "magic smoke." Best of luck at the Doctor's office. Ray F. W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> wrote: > > Hi Ray F W , > > Good to hear from you. Thank you for all the information you sent, which I will print out, concerning the valve gear parts. As you know one of the biggest problems with this Conover project has been the lack of information ( good detail drawings with measurements or any instructional paperwork ) A lot has been guess work. Other then that first little Conover catalog copy you sent me which is very small and the small pictures hard to distinguish much and the set of updated drawings from I think it's 1959 ( not exactly to scale and no measurements ) has made things slow going. I'm leery of going to quickly and do it wrong. > > Any information or copies you can send me from the post war Conover S-1 offered when Baldwin Locomotive works was marketing this engine would be outstanding. Having more detailed 9" x 11" scale drawings which also shows the assembled valve gear and a close up of the valve gear hanger arrangement would be like a Christmas present. This way I will know exactly where I am at. ( I have the valve gear hangers ) > > As for the motor I would like the Mantua 6 volt as that would help date the engine pre war. I won't be running this Conover engine other then to test it but I will keep the post war DC-71 motor in mind. > > I fully understand that you can't copy things now and there is no real hurry. I have some medical problems right now making it hard to work on real small parts anyway. In fact I'm headed to a doctor appointment very shortly.WHEN you can copy those plans, and I don't mean I need them yesterday, I would be very appreciative and only to glad to cover cost and postage. > > Thanks again > Jim H > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: erieberk > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 12:20 AM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Conover Valve Gear Parts > > > > Jim, > > We well know you've not only started, but have come an exceedingly long way in building your 1938 Conover B&O S-1 kit. You've done a magnificent job with it so far, with all the time and care you've put into it, and no doubt will finish it up in the same manner. > > As there are several different styles of Baker valve gear, this is where it gets difficult in determining which to use, if trying to improvise. As you mention now having three of the "6" valve gear parts, may I assume that you now also have the Valve Gear Hangers (2; forward and aft) and the Hanger Brackets (Horizontal and Verticle)? > > Since sending you the copy of the original pre-War Conover Catalog, I've since came into possession of the post-War Conover S-1 Catalog offered when Baldwin Model Locomotive Works of Greenwich, Connecticut was marketing this engine. This catalog is a much larger format -- 9" x 11" -- and has scale drawings of the mechanism and superstructure, with a parts list, and drawings of the valve gear hanger arrangement and assembled valve gear. Several large photos of finished engines are also included, and full step-by-step instruction are printed out for assembling the kit -- not that you need that part < g >. > > While, for some unknown reason, the catalog numbers of the pre-War and post-War valve gear catalog numbers differ, both versions agree that besides the hangers and brackets already mentioned above, there are 7 pieces to the valve gear assembly not 6. > > They are as follows, below the first four major parts, first with pre-War number then followed by the post-War number where indicated: > > L-243 Forward Valve Gear Hanger (Yolk) -- one required > L-244 Aft Valve Gear Hanger -- one required > V-100 Verticle Hanger Bracket -- two required > V-101 Horizontal Hanger Bracket -- two required > > V-102 (V-986) Eccentric Rod -- two required > V-103 (V-984) Radius Rod -- two required > V-104 (V-982) Combination Lever -- two required > V-105 Reverse Lever -- two required > V-106 (V-985) Radius Link) -- two required > V-107 (V-983) Crosshead Link -- two required > V-108 Reverse Linkage -- four required > V-109 (V-987) Eccentric Crank - two required > > You'll note in the second portion of the listing -- of the actual valve gear parts (aside from the hangers and brackets) -- that I've listed 8 different parts. The V-108 Reverse Linkage is non-operational and is not "linked" in connection with the other (moveable) parts of the valve gear, but is instead included just as detail attached (soldered) to the Horizontal Hanger Bracket; it's not needed in the operation of the mechanism but is included as part of the original kit's version for completeness and followed through in the post-War engine. > > If I can be of help in sending you copies of this later catalog, just let me know. I believe the scale superstructure drawings alone would help you in the placement of the piping. As my printer is down, I'd need time to get to the local library to copy the pages, so please bear with me on that. > > Incidentally, the post-War version uses a Pittman DC-71 motor as per the catalog. I recall your prior wishes of obtaining ANY Conover 2-10-2, pre or post War. I realize it's always best to build a kit the way it was originally meant to be, but for possible "modern, 12 volt" operation of post-War models, the DC-71 is perfectly allowable for this model unless it's never meant to run (or risk burning up a 6 volt motor). > > Ray F. W. > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Many members know a while back I started to build a 1938 Conover 2-10-2 kit. It was to say the least one of the worst finishes on the parts. This was just not dirt or grim that could be wire brushed off but a sandy like finish that had to be filed and sanded to a smooth, polished finish. There were certain small detail parts missing but by searching around I found most of the original parts needed. It wasn't easy. > > > > The main missing part is the original Baker valve gear. I have the original main and side rods but the little parts for assembling the valve gear were not with it. Since I like my vintage collection pieces as close to original as possible I put the engine on the shelf while I searched some more. I didn't hold out much hope for an engine made in 1938. If I had no luck after a while I planned to substitute another companies Baker Valve gear. I'm in no hurry and have waited months to find original parts for other engines. > > > > Today in the mail I received some of the little parts. There are 6 different ones you need and I now have three of them. (The first picture shows the parts sent to me above the page from a Conover catalog showing all 6. Next picture, although poor because it was to small to photograph, shows you need 2 of each of the six parts to complete the assembly of the valve gear. Last picture is the Conover 2-10-2 sitting on the shelf at the point where I have finished it so far awaiting the valve gear. > > > > Now since I found some of the valve gear parts I will wait a little longer in the hope of finding more. There are a few other details needed like handrail / stanchions and some steam pipes ( you make to size ) from the cylinder saddle to the boiler. > > > > The last thing I need and will be very hard to find is the larger Mantua pre war 6 volt motor that Conover used. No hurry lots of time. It took me 4 years to get all the original parts to completely finish my Winton 2-6-6-6 Allegheny. I just got both original tender trucks 2 months ago. > > > > Patience is the name of the game. > > > > > > Jim H > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16672	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 5/24/2011
Subject: Ostuco gondola via Walthers 46' gon

Attachments : Ostucoprimer_08.jpg Ostucoprimer_06.jpg Ostucoprimer_03.jpg Hi folks, Remember way back when John Hagen made us decals, well pretty soon I will use them on the first entry.  I have attached some photos of my version with primer.  I am hoping I get a chance to put some color to it this weekend.  I am not sure I can completely paint it, but I hope to get the Yellow on.  I also added complete brake detail underneath ( I dunno why?) using the brake parts that came with the car.  I just added the pipes and rods along with chains and clevises.  I also added cut levers, but they are not showing up that well. Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC

@@attachment@@

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16673	From: jim heckard	Date: 5/24/2011
Subject: Re: Conover Valve Gear Parts

Ray F W,        Where I wrote 1959 I was talking about the set of drawings ( 3 sheets of drawings, one sheet of assembly instructions ) I was given that was dated     The actual date on them is 11/21/53 and 12/26/54  and the initials CRB.  I was just to far behind schedule to go in the basement and check and one thing you shouldn't do when quoting a fact is be wrong or at least state it is a guess.       You are absolutely right that the little catalog had 1939 on it.        You should sit down and take all those Conover facts and write the history of what we know so far. You are much better at stating things coherently then I.         Just back from doctors with some good news and will re read both your Emails more thoroughly tonight.                                           Jim H ----- Original Message ----- From: erieberk To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 1:12 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Conover Valve Gear Parts   Jim, Haven't had much to add to the recent discussions, as I'm not a brass collector even though I've acquired some over the years. I'm not into LaBelle, as they don't fit my needs, although I feel they're great models. I don't really feel that imported brass (even early brass) would be considered as "vintage" H0 in the same category as are American made locos, as my belief is that primarily only cast brass/bronze and/or cast zamak (or a combo of both), by U.S. manufacturers are considered as such, including the sheet brass (with cast zamak) of Mantua -- as far as early engine kits go -- but I realize this is only my opinion. The smaller (first) Conover catalog is 1939 (pre-War), not 1959, but I'm assuming this was just a typo you wrote. Had to clarify it though, for all the readers here. You did best not to rush things with your S-1, but without much to go by, your guesswork paid off. This latest catalog (I guess I should call it an instruction manual) is much more helpful in putting their engine together, but then a catalog is not really meant for this same purpose. Aside from the very helpful dialog and pics, we can add a bit to the eventual history of Conover with it, in knowing that the original manufacturer (Conover) was taken over after the War by Baldwin Model Locomotive Works, P.O. Box 1225, Greenwich, Connecticut. As this present Baldwin Model Loco manual I have has been revised by the individual who wound up buying at least a good portion of the inventory and tooling from Baldwin (we figured last year that there were at least two independent individuals involved in the buy-out), these instructions are dated from 1949 (no month mentioned) to December 26, 1954 -- as per the signed and dated drawings -- much like James Trout did for Varney. The address of this latest producer of the Conover 2-10-2 -- Clark A. Benson -- at this time was 99 Edison Street, Stratford, Conn. Even a phone number was supplied: Phone -- ED-7-0603. Remember the early phone numbers with the first two letters of the Exchange? There was no dial tone -- we'd have to wait for the operator to ask us "Number please?" Then we'd say, "Edison-7- . . . " or whatever. So at least we know this model was offered up until the end of 1954 -- at $19.95 for the rough casting kit (loco & tender), or $65 ($55 when still Baldwin Model Works) for an unmachined (undrilled) but smoothed casting kit, or $95 ($75 when still Baldwin Model Works) for a built-up, ready to run, unpainted model. I'll try to get a copy of this out to you within the week -- lots of good info here. You may want to consider looking for a 6 volt D.C. power pack on eBay to occasionally switch out your 12 volt source, to be able to run your Conover. In fact, you could then run any of your pre-War Varney and Mantua without fear of seeing the "magic smoke." Best of luck at the Doctor's office. Ray F. W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> wrote: > > Hi Ray F W , > > Good to hear from you. Thank you for all the information you sent, which I will print out, concerning the valve gear parts. As you know one of the biggest problems with this Conover project has been the lack of information ( good detail drawings with measurements or any instructional paperwork ) A lot has been guess work. Other then that first little Conover catalog copy you sent me which is very small and the small pictures hard to distinguish much and the set of updated drawings from I think it's 1959 ( not exactly to scale and no measurements ) has made things slow going. I'm leery of going to quickly and do it wrong. > > Any information or copies you can send me from the post war Conover S-1 offered when Baldwin Locomotive works was marketing this engine would be outstanding. Having more detailed 9" x 11" scale drawings which also shows the assembled valve gear and a close up of the valve gear hanger arrangement would be like a Christmas present. This way I will know exactly where I am at. ( I have the valve gear hangers ) > > As for the motor I would like the Mantua 6 volt as that would help date the engine pre war. I won't be running this Conover engine other then to test it but I will keep the post war DC-71 motor in mind. > > I fully understand that you can't copy things now and there is no real hurry. I have some medical problems right now making it hard to work on real small parts anyway. In fact I'm headed to a doctor appointment very shortly.WHEN you can copy those plans, and I don't mean I need them yesterday, I would be very appreciative and only to glad to cover cost and postage. > > Thanks again > Jim H > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: erieberk > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 12:20 AM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Conover Valve Gear Parts > > > > Jim, > > We well know you've not only started, but have come an exceedingly long way in building your 1938 Conover B&O S-1 kit. You've done a magnificent job with it so far, with all the time and care you've put into it, and no doubt will finish it up in the same manner. > > As there are several different styles of Baker valve gear, this is where it gets difficult in determining which to use, if trying to improvise. As you mention now having three of the "6" valve gear parts, may I assume that you now also have the Valve Gear Hangers (2; forward and aft) and the Hanger Brackets (Horizontal and Verticle)? > > Since sending you the copy of the original pre-War Conover Catalog, I've since came into possession of the post-War Conover S-1 Catalog offered when Baldwin Model Locomotive Works of Greenwich, Connecticut was marketing this engine. This catalog is a much larger format -- 9" x 11" -- and has scale drawings of the mechanism and superstructure, with a parts list, and drawings of the valve gear hanger arrangement and assembled valve gear. Several large photos of finished engines are also included, and full step-by-step instruction are printed out for assembling the kit -- not that you need that part < g >. > > While, for some unknown reason, the catalog numbers of the pre-War and post-War valve gear catalog numbers differ, both versions agree that besides the hangers and brackets already mentioned above, there are 7 pieces to the valve gear assembly not 6. > > They are as follows, below the first four major parts, first with pre-War number then followed by the post-War number where indicated: > > L-243 Forward Valve Gear Hanger (Yolk) -- one required > L-244 Aft Valve Gear Hanger -- one required > V-100 Verticle Hanger Bracket -- two required > V-101 Horizontal Hanger Bracket -- two required > > V-102 (V-986) Eccentric Rod -- two required > V-103 (V-984) Radius Rod -- two required > V-104 (V-982) Combination Lever -- two required > V-105 Reverse Lever -- two required > V-106 (V-985) Radius Link) -- two required > V-107 (V-983) Crosshead Link -- two required > V-108 Reverse Linkage -- four required > V-109 (V-987) Eccentric Crank - two required > > You'll note in the second portion of the listing -- of the actual valve gear parts (aside from the hangers and brackets) -- that I've listed 8 different parts. The V-108 Reverse Linkage is non-operational and is not "linked" in connection with the other (moveable) parts of the valve gear, but is instead included just as detail attached (soldered) to the Horizontal Hanger Bracket; it's not needed in the operation of the mechanism but is included as part of the original kit's version for completeness and followed through in the post-War engine. > > If I can be of help in sending you copies of this later catalog, just let me know. I believe the scale superstructure drawings alone would help you in the placement of the piping. As my printer is down, I'd need time to get to the local library to copy the pages, so please bear with me on that. > > Incidentally, the post-War version uses a Pittman DC-71 motor as per the catalog. I recall your prior wishes of obtaining ANY Conover 2-10-2, pre or post War. I realize it's always best to build a kit the way it was originally meant to be, but for possible "modern, 12 volt" operation of post-War models, the DC-71 is perfectly allowable for this model unless it's never meant to run (or risk burning up a 6 volt motor). > > Ray F. W. > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Many members know a while back I started to build a 1938 Conover 2-10-2 kit. It was to say the least one of the worst finishes on the parts. This was just not dirt or grim that could be wire brushed off but a sandy like finish that had to be filed and sanded to a smooth, polished finish. There were certain small detail parts missing but by searching around I found most of the original parts needed. It wasn't easy. > > > > The main missing part is the original Baker valve gear. I have the original main and side rods but the little parts for assembling the valve gear were not with it. Since I like my vintage collection pieces as close to original as possible I put the engine on the shelf while I searched some more. I didn't hold out much hope for an engine made in 1938. If I had no luck after a while I planned to substitute another companies Baker Valve gear. I'm in no hurry and have waited months to find original parts for other engines. > > > > Today in the mail I received some of the little parts. There are 6 different ones you need and I now have three of them. (The first picture shows the parts sent to me above the page from a Conover catalog showing all 6. Next picture, although poor because it was to small to photograph, shows you need 2 of each of the six parts to complete the assembly of the valve gear. Last picture is the Conover 2-10-2 sitting on the shelf at the point where I have finished it so far awaiting the valve gear. > > > > Now since I found some of the valve gear parts I will wait a little longer in the hope of finding more. There are a few other details needed like handrail / stanchions and some steam pipes ( you make to size ) from the cylinder saddle to the boiler. > > > > The last thing I need and will be very hard to find is the larger Mantua pre war 6 volt motor that Conover used. No hurry lots of time. It took me 4 years to get all the original parts to completely finish my Winton 2-6-6-6 Allegheny. I just got both original tender trucks 2 months ago. > > > > Patience is the name of the game. > > > > > > Jim H > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16674	From: WalterB	Date: 5/24/2011
Subject: American Beauty line HO Jerry Martin Centriclutch

Ebay item # 280683763489 What is this gizmo? What was it supposed to do? How was it supposed to be used? Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16675	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 5/24/2011
Subject: Re: American Beauty line HO Jerry Martin Centriclutch

Centrufical Clutch. Used on output of motor shaft for smooth, slow starts. > Ebay item # 280683763489 > > What is this gizmo? What was it supposed to do? How was it supposed to be used? > > Walter >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16676	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 5/24/2011
Subject: Re: American Beauty line HO Jerry Martin Centriclutch

----- Original Message ----- From: "trainsnwrcs" <idioticyahoo@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 9:27 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: American Beauty line HO Jerry Martin Centriclutch > Centrufical Clutch. Used on output of motor shaft for smooth, slow starts. > > >> Ebay item # 280683763489 >> >> What is this gizmo? What was it supposed to do? How was it supposed to be >> used? >> >> Walter >> There were several devices like this in the 50's before people pretty much settled on flywheels. Another one I've seen was a Hobbytown that had rubber "fingers" on a hub that expanded to grip the inside of a drum. The trouble was, the rubber got stiff in cold, I remember someone bringing one down to the club after it had sat in his truck all day in the winter, it took about half an hour of sitting on the track with the motor spinning and the locomotive not moving, then starting to jerk, then finally running well as the rubber warmed up enough to work. Another one I've seen was actually hydraulic, a little oil filled drum that worked much like a 1940's Buick "fluid drive". Don ' Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16677	From: jake_iv@juno.com	Date: 5/25/2011
Subject: Re: American Beauty line HO Jerry Martin Centriclutch

Thanks Don, I too have seen and actually installed and tested most of the centrifugal and hydraulic clutches that appeared briefly in the hobby in the 50's and 60's.  Some worked fairly well with the motors and gearing of the time.  The sample that used thousands of pigs hair bristles running against a flat steel disk worked fairly well - unless you left it sitting too long or failed to run it in reverse as often as you used it in the forward direction. About the same time that these appeared Varney was trying 7 pole motors mounted in ball bearings, A C Gilbert was trying skew-wound 3 pole motors and the precision gears of folks like NWSL were starting to appear.  The addition of flywheels and replacement of rubber shafts with universal joints pretty much spelled the end of the early "automatic clutches". In my opinion, the introduction of self lubricating plastics that could be machined for gears as replacements for the earlier Bakelite, steel and brass "stamped" gears was the final nail in the coffin for these pioneers in smooth operation. Jake Bechtel Gadsden, AL

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16678	From: cwrailman	Date: 5/25/2011
Subject: MR Changes policy about articles

A shift in policy concerning articles for Model Railroader. Check out their new policy as stated in the lower left hand of this page. http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/gCfdTftI90nHJsfGPOtFyULSEq-NTAgEuipf5cXgk6PYZA1wJ9-da6LEOf5xfwJ8W2P2EMNvEk6cm1h56X0e47mE1EdU319n/CWRailman%20Bashes/MR%20Kit%20Construction.gif Now back to the shops, Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16679	From: Glenn	Date: 5/25/2011
Subject: Re: MR Changes policy about articles

you had me going there--I thought it was a recent policy change. I recall the "I.K.B." articles--does anyone know who"I.K.B." was? gj -----Original Message----- From: cwrailman Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2011 9:15 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] MR Changes policy about articles A shift in policy concerning articles for Model Railroader. Check out their new policy as stated in the lower left hand of this page. http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/gCfdTftI90nHJsfGPOtFyULSEq-NTAgEuipf5cXgk6PYZA1wJ9-da6LEOf5xfwJ8W2P2EMNvEk6cm1h56X0e47mE1EdU319n/CWRailman%20Bashes/MR%20Kit%20Construction.gif Now back to the shops, Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16680	From: Glenn	Date: 5/25/2011
Subject: Re: American Beauty line HO Jerry Martin Centriclutch

Thanks Don, I too have seen and actually installed and tested most of the centrifugal and hydraulic clutches that appeared briefly in the hobby in the 50's and 60's.  Some worked fairly well with the motors and gearing of the time.  The sample that used thousands of pigs hair bristles running against a flat steel disk worked fairly well - unless you left it sitting too long or failed to run it in reverse as often as you used it in the forward direction. About the same time that these appeared Varney was trying 7 pole motors mounted in ball bearings, A C Gilbert was trying skew-wound 3 pole motors and the precision gears of folks like NWSL were starting to appear.  The addition of flywheels and replacement of rubber shafts with universal joints pretty much spelled the end of the early "automatic clutches". In my opinion, the introduction of self lubricating plastics that could be machined for gears as replacements for the earlier Bakelite, steel and brass "stamped" gears was the final nail in the coffin for these pioneers in smooth operation. Jake Bechtel Gadsden, AL

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16681	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 5/25/2011
Subject: Re: MR Changes policy about articles

I am getting a 'Document Not Found' error. What is the article policy change then? -Steve Neubaum --- On Wed, 5/25/11, cwrailman <cwrailman@...> wrote: From: cwrailman <cwrailman@...> Subject: [vintageHO] MR Changes policy about articles To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, May 25, 2011, 11:15 AM   A shift in policy concerning articles for Model Railroader. Check out their new policy as stated in the lower left hand of this page. http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/gCfdTftI90nHJsfGPOtFyULSEq-NTAgEuipf5cXgk6PYZA1wJ9-da6LEOf5xfwJ8W2P2EMNvEk6cm1h56X0e47mE1EdU319n/CWRailman%20Bashes/MR%20Kit%20Construction.gif Now back to the shops, Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16682	From: cwrailman	Date: 5/25/2011
Subject: Re: MR Changes policy about articles

It seem the link to the original post got messed up somehow. http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/oEPdTaKHvczyU_FzE8xIy2XdCEfGMcB4tvISFzVXwQuF5I74Ecu9hB1lUOQL-p9jYGj5fcrcd-GCy391Z2bT5kZEsDPIDjk8/CWRailman%20Bashes/MR%20Kit%20Construction.gif Now back to the shopd, Denny Cornfused Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "cwrailman" <cwrailman@...> wrote: > > A shift in policy concerning articles for Model Railroader. > > Check out their new policy as stated in the lower left hand of this page. > > http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/gCfdTftI90nHJsfGPOtFyULSEq-NTAgEuipf5cXgk6PYZA1wJ9-da6LEOf5xfwJ8W2P2EMNvEk6cm1h56X0e47mE1EdU319n/CWRailman%20Bashes/MR%20Kit%20Construction.gif > > Now back to the shops, > > Denny > Janitor in Training > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16683	From: Graeme	Date: 5/25/2011
Subject: Re: MR Changes policy about articles

In message <CB975604527D4C4FB75FD14DF9D0F502@Glennk28HP>, Glenn <glenn476@...> writes >I recall the "I.K.B." articles--does anyone know who"I.K.B." was? Isambard Kingdom Brunel. Or possibly not :-) -- Graeme Eldred, Scotland

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16684	From: Rick Jones	Date: 5/25/2011
Subject: Re: MR Changes policy about articles

On 5/25/2011 1:35 PM, cwrailman wrote: > It seem the link to the original post got messed up somehow. > > http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/oEPdTaKHvczyU_FzE8xIy2XdCEfGMcB4tvISFzVXwQuF5I74Ecu9hB1lUOQL-p9jYGj5fcrcd-GCy391Z2bT5kZEsDPIDjk8/CWRailman%20Bashes/MR%20Kit%20Construction.gif Nope. That one also generates a "Document Not Found" error. -- Rick Jones Vote for Cthulhu, when you're tired of getting the lesser of two evils.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16685	From: cwrailman	Date: 5/25/2011
Subject: Re: MR Changes policy about articles (CORRECTION I HOPE)

I do not know what is happening with these links. Ok for the info go to "CWRailman Bashes" in the file section and look at the MR Kit Construction article. Somedays ya just can't get anything right. Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Rick Jones <r.t.jones@...> wrote: > > On 5/25/2011 1:35 PM, cwrailman wrote: > > It seem the link to the original post got messed up somehow. > > > > http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/oEPdTaKHvczyU_FzE8xIy2XdCEfGMcB4tvISFzVXwQuF5I74Ecu9hB1lUOQL-p9jYGj5fcrcd-GCy391Z2bT5kZEsDPIDjk8/CWRailman%20Bashes/MR%20Kit%20Construction.gif > > Nope. That one also generates a "Document Not Found" error. > > -- > > Rick Jones > > Vote for Cthulhu, when you're tired of getting the lesser of two > evils. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16686	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 5/25/2011
Subject: Re: MR Changes policy about articles (CORRECTION I HOPE)

The first link took me to a 1948 MR article.  Sean Sent from my iPhone On May 25, 2011, at 7:25 PM, "cwrailman" <cwrailman@...> wrote:   I do not know what is happening with these links. Ok for the info go to "CWRailman Bashes" in the file section and look at the MR Kit Construction article. Somedays ya just can't get anything right. Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Rick Jones <r.t.jones@...> wrote: > > On 5/25/2011 1:35 PM, cwrailman wrote: > > It seem the link to the original post got messed up somehow. > > > > http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/oEPdTaKHvczyU_FzE8xIy2XdCEfGMcB4tvISFzVXwQuF5I74Ecu9hB1lUOQL-p9jYGj5fcrcd-GCy391Z2bT5kZEsDPIDjk8/CWRailman%20Bashes/MR%20Kit%20Construction.gif > > Nope. That one also generates a "Document Not Found" error. > > -- > > Rick Jones > > Vote for Cthulhu, when you're tired of getting the lesser of two > evils. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16687	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 5/25/2011
Subject: Re: MR Changes policy about articles (CORRECTION I HOPE)

I gather that 1948 article IS the intended, correct, page. Our chains were being playfully pulled. I laughed too because of the content. Walt On Wed, May 25, 2011 at 9:19 PM, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote:   The first link took me to a 1948 MR article.  Sean Sent from my iPhone On May 25, 2011, at 7:25 PM, "cwrailman" <cwrailman@...> wrote:   I do not know what is happening with these links. Ok for the info go to "CWRailman Bashes" in the file section and look at the MR Kit Construction article. Somedays ya just can't get anything right. Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Rick Jones <r.t.jones@...> wrote: > > On 5/25/2011 1:35 PM, cwrailman wrote: > > It seem the link to the original post got messed up somehow. > > > > http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/oEPdTaKHvczyU_FzE8xIy2XdCEfGMcB4tvISFzVXwQuF5I74Ecu9hB1lUOQL-p9jYGj5fcrcd-GCy391Z2bT5kZEsDPIDjk8/CWRailman%20Bashes/MR%20Kit%20Construction.gif > > Nope. That one also generates a "Document Not Found" error. > > -- > > Rick Jones > > Vote for Cthulhu, when you're tired of getting the lesser of two > evils. > -- Regards, Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16688	From: Glenn	Date: 5/25/2011
Subject: Re: MR Changes policy about articles (CORRECTION I HOPE)

that article announced a change in editorial policy—previously they did not do articles on assembling kitys.—the one shown was much greater depth than the typical “Trade Topics” piece.   gj   From: Sean Naylor Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2011 6:19 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: MR Changes policy about articles (CORRECTION I HOPE)   The first link took me to a 1948 MR article.   Sean Sent from my iPhone On May 25, 2011, at 7:25 PM, "cwrailman" <cwrailman@...> wrote:   I do not know what is happening with these links. Ok for the info go to "CWRailman Bashes" in the file section and look at the MR Kit Construction article. Somedays ya just can't get anything right. Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Rick Jones <r.t.jones@...> wrote: > > On 5/25/2011 1:35 PM, cwrailman wrote: > > It seem the link to the original post got messed up somehow. > > > > http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/oEPdTaKHvczyU_FzE8xIy2XdCEfGMcB4tvISFzVXwQuF5I74Ecu9hB1lUOQL-p9jYGj5fcrcd-GCy391Z2bT5kZEsDPIDjk8/CWRailman%20Bashes/MR%20Kit%20Construction.gif > > Nope. That one also generates a "Document Not Found" error. > > -- > > Rick Jones > > Vote for Cthulhu, when you're tired of getting the lesser of two > evils. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16689	From: John Webster	Date: 5/26/2011
Subject: Re: Conover Valve Gear Parts

Ray,       Scans of that Conover catalog would be a nice addition to HO Seeker's web page.   John

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16690	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 5/26/2011
Subject: Re: Conover Valve Gear Parts

Which reminds me....... I recently bought a Paul Moore kit that appears to be circa 1950. It has the then current P.M. catalog which includes some items [kits] I've never seen him offer later on. It seems that when Paul was able to use end castings after the Korean War, some kits never got new ends and were dropped from the line. I base that upon the streamlined ACF power cars he had then, and dropped from the line perhaps a few years later. I now have good line drawings of them; tiny, but still good drawings. Best to ya, Mike Bauers Milwaukee, Wi On May 26, 2011, at 4:23 AM, John Webster wrote: Ray,       Scans of that Conover catalog would be a nice addition to HO Seeker's web page.   John

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16691	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 5/26/2011
Subject: Re: MR Changes policy about articles (CORRECTION I HOPE)

Exactly how does one assemble a Kity?   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: Glenn <glenn476@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, May 26, 2011 2:46:59 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: MR Changes policy about articles (CORRECTION I HOPE)   that article announced a change in editorial policy—previously they did not do articles on assembling kitys.—the one shown was much greater depth than the typical “Trade Topics” piece.   gj   From: Sean Naylor Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2011 6:19 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: MR Changes policy about articles (CORRECTION I HOPE)   The first link took me to a 1948 MR article.   Sean Sent from my iPhone On May 25, 2011, at 7:25 PM, "cwrailman" <cwrailman@...> wrote:   I do not know what is happening with these links. Ok for the info go to "CWRailman Bashes" in the file section and look at the MR Kit Construction article. Somedays ya just can't get anything right. Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Rick Jones <r.t.jones@...> wrote: > > On 5/25/2011 1:35 PM, cwrailman wrote: > > It seem the link to the original post got messed up somehow. > > > > http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/oEPdTaKHvczyU_FzE8xIy2XdCEfGMcB4tvISFzVXwQuF5I74Ecu9hB1lUOQL-p9jYGj5fcrcd-GCy391Z2bT5kZEsDPIDjk8/CWRailman%20Bashes/MR%20Kit%20Construction.gif > > Nope. That one also generates a "Document Not Found" error. > > -- > > Rick Jones > > Vote for Cthulhu, when you're tired of getting the lesser of two > evils. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16692	From: Glenn	Date: 5/26/2011
Subject: Re: MR Changes policy about articles (CORRECTION I HOPE)

you have fumble fingers late at night---kits.  gj   From: Sean Naylor Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2011 5:32 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: MR Changes policy about articles (CORRECTION I HOPE)   Exactly how does one assemble a Kity?   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!     From: Glenn <glenn476@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, May 26, 2011 2:46:59 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: MR Changes policy about articles (CORRECTION I HOPE)   that article announced a change in editorial policy—previously they did not do articles on assembling kitys.—the one shown was much greater depth than the typical “Trade Topics” piece.   gj   From: Sean Naylor Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2011 6:19 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: MR Changes policy about articles (CORRECTION I HOPE)   The first link took me to a 1948 MR article.   Sean Sent from my iPhone On May 25, 2011, at 7:25 PM, "cwrailman" <cwrailman@...> wrote:   I do not know what is happening with these links. Ok for the info go to "CWRailman Bashes" in the file section and look at the MR Kit Construction article. Somedays ya just can't get anything right. Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Rick Jones <r.t.jones@...> wrote: > > On 5/25/2011 1:35 PM, cwrailman wrote: > > It seem the link to the original post got messed up somehow. > > > > http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/oEPdTaKHvczyU_FzE8xIy2XdCEfGMcB4tvISFzVXwQuF5I74Ecu9hB1lUOQL-p9jYGj5fcrcd-GCy391Z2bT5kZEsDPIDjk8/CWRailman%20Bashes/MR%20Kit%20Construction.gif > > Nope. That one also generates a "Document Not Found" error. > > -- > > Rick Jones > > Vote for Cthulhu, when you're tired of getting the lesser of two > evils. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16693	From: cwrailman	Date: 5/26/2011
Subject: Re: MR Changes policy about articles (CORRECTION I HOPE)

OK Guys, I was pulling yer leg a bit. Sorry about the changing links but that is something to do with Yahoo. I hope you all found the appropriate article I was talking about. What I did find interesting in that article, noting the change in MR's article policy, was that they did not use the term "scratch building" as the process of building from "basic materials" was still the way most modelers produced their models. So when did the term scratch building come into vogue? I wonder? Now back to the shops, Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Glenn" <glenn476@...> wrote: > > you have fumble fingers late at night---kits. gj > > From: Sean Naylor > Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2011 5:32 AM > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: MR Changes policy about articles (CORRECTION I HOPE) > > > > > Exactly how does one assemble a Kity? > > > Sean > > > "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > From: Glenn <glenn476@...> > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thu, May 26, 2011 2:46:59 AM > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: MR Changes policy about articles (CORRECTION I HOPE) > > > that article announced a change in editorial policyâ€"previously they did not do articles on assembling kitys.â€"the one shown was much greater depth than the typical “Trade Topics” piece. > > gj > > From: Sean Naylor > Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2011 6:19 PM > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: MR Changes policy about articles (CORRECTION I HOPE) > > > > > The first link took me to a 1948 MR article. > > Sean > > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 25, 2011, at 7:25 PM, "cwrailman" <cwrailman@...> wrote: > > > > I do not know what is happening with these links. > > Ok for the info go to > "CWRailman Bashes" in the file section and look at the > MR Kit Construction article. > > Somedays ya just can't get anything right. > > Denny > Janitor in Training > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Rick Jones <r.t.jones@> wrote: > > > > On 5/25/2011 1:35 PM, cwrailman wrote: > > > It seem the link to the original post got messed up somehow. > > > > > > http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/oEPdTaKHvczyU_FzE8xIy2XdCEfGMcB4tvISFzVXwQuF5I74Ecu9hB1lUOQL-p9jYGj5fcrcd-GCy391Z2bT5kZEsDPIDjk8/CWRailman%20Bashes/MR%20Kit%20Construction.gif > > > > Nope. That one also generates a "Document Not Found" error. > > > > -- > > > > Rick Jones > > > > Vote for Cthulhu, when you're tired of getting the lesser of two > > evils. > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16694	From: cwrailman	Date: 5/26/2011
Subject: Looking for a particular article?

An offer of service. I am fortunate to have a complete collection of MR and RMC from 1950 to 1970 which covers the years we are all interested in. I also have most of 1948 and bound issues of 1940-1943. If there is an article you are looking for I may be able to provide you with the article. Now, you do understand that my time is a bit limited but I will attempt to get what you request out to you in a timely manner. If there is something you need please contact me via email and let me know what you are looking for. Now back to the shops, Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16695	From: jbark76	Date: 5/26/2011
Subject: Re: Conover Valve Gear Parts

Thank you all for putting this information together. I had originally thought the parts I had were made in the 50's by Clark Benson. (That is what the person I got them from had understood.) I would also be interested in any literature about the model that surfaces. Jeff Barker

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16696	From: Railroad Modeler	Date: 5/26/2011
Subject: Re: MR Changes policy about articles (CORRECTION I HOPE)

One piece at a time, of course!!   Regards,   Ken B   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sean Naylor Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2011 6:32 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: MR Changes policy about articles (CORRECTION I HOPE)     Exactly how does one assemble a Kity?   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16697	From: Chris B	Date: 5/26/2011
Subject: "scratchbuilding" was: MR Changes policy about articles (CORRECTIO

" So when did the term scratch building come into vogue? I wonder?" According to the rr mag index at (http://www.rrmagindex.org/), there were at least two 1938 articles on scratchbuilding, and one in 1949, so at least that early. FWIW, Google books searches of Popular Mechanics and Popular Science don't show articles using the term before 1955 and 1964 respectively. Chris B.   Model Railroader  May 1938  5  5 Car Construction Methods      179  scratchbuilding cars, modeling article, MR Model Railroader  May 1938  5  5 Car Construction Methods      179  modeling article, editorial commentary, MR, Try variety of scratchbuilding materials Model Railroader  January 1949  16  1 Way Back When  Bill Rau    22  scratchbuilding, modeling article, Modeling before kits, MR ============================ OK Guys, I was pulling yer leg a bit. Sorry about the changing links but that is something to do with Yahoo. I hope you all found the appropriate article I was talking about. What I did find interesting in that article, noting the change in MR's article policy, was that they did not use the term "scratch building" as the process of building from "basic materials" was still the way most modelers produced their models. So when did the term scratch building come into vogue? I wonder? Now back to the shops, Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16698	From: cwrailman	Date: 5/26/2011
Subject: Re: "scratchbuilding" was: MR Changes policy about articles (CORRE

Unfortunitely I do not have those years in my MR collection so I am wondering if they actually used the term scratchbuilding in the article. The index was done relatively recently and they might have just used the term in describing the concept of the article. However, if they did use the term back then it might indicate an awareness of the impact prepackaged kits were causing, or about to cause on the hobby. I do have the MR May 1960 article by Jack Work entitled "The Art of Scratchbuilding" and at that point he makes liberal use of the term scratch-building. Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Chris B <chrisb_acw_rr@...> wrote: > > " So when did the term scratch building come into vogue? I wonder?" > > > According to the rr mag index at (http://www.rrmagindex.org/), there were at least two 1938 articles on scratchbuilding, and one in 1949, so at least that early. > > FWIW, Google books searches of Popular Mechanics and Popular Science don't show articles using the term before 1955 and 1964 respectively. > > Chris B. > >  Model Railroader May1938 5 5Car Construction Methods   179 scratchbuilding cars, modeling article, MR > Model Railroader May1938 5 5Car Construction Methods   179 modeling article, editorial commentary, MR, Try variety of scratchbuilding materials > Model Railroader January1949 16 1Way Back When Bill Rau  22 scratchbuilding, modeling article, Modeling before kits, MR > > ============================ > > > OK Guys, I was pulling yer leg a bit. > > > Sorry about the changing links but that is something to do with Yahoo. > > I hope you all found the appropriate article I was talking about. > > What I did find interesting in that article, noting the change in MR's article policy, was that they did not use the term "scratch building" as the process of building from "basic materials" was still the way most modelers produced their models. > > > So when did the term scratch building come into vogue? I wonder? > > > > Now back to the shops, > > > > Denny > > Janitor in Training > > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16699	From: Denny Anspach	Date: 5/27/2011
Subject: Re: Tenshodo & Japan Brass Trains

I was thinking of keeping the Japan Brass part of the collection as an investment for the future. Does anyone think the values of the Japan Brass will go up due to the Tsunami? Wow!  Anyone who keeps brass for "investment"  should think again.  The world is ltttered with those who chose to build their houses on  THat sand. As to the effect of "the Tsunami", the last Japanese production of brass departed from their shores about 21 years ago. Gently, the question also betrays an uncertain knowledge of this hobby.  IN this regard, the hazard is even greater. Wtih full respect- Denny Denny S. Anspach, MD Sacramento

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16700	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 5/28/2011
Subject: Re: Tenshodo & Japan Brass Trains

Denny, your love of the hobby is surpassed only by your intellect. You're welcome.   Art W In a message dated 5/28/2011 12:27:34 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, danspach@... writes:  I was thinking of keeping the Japan Brass part of the collection as an investment for the future. Does anyone think the values of the Japan Brass will go up due to the Tsunami? Wow!  Anyone who keeps brass for "investment"  should think again.  The world is ltttered with those who chose to build their houses on  THat sand. As to the effect of "the Tsunami", the last Japanese production of brass departed from their shores about 21 years ago. Gently, the question also betrays an uncertain knowledge of this hobby.  IN this regard, the hazard is even greater. Wtih full respect- Denny Denny S. Anspach, MD Sacramento

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16701	From: Dale Hokanson	Date: 5/28/2011
Subject: Re: Tenshodo

FWIW, my take is the worth of many of these early models is based on the fidelity of basic measurements. Do they make a good foundation for a model and do they look like the prototype. As is, unless you collect for historical value, many have little value because of a lack of fidelity. For an operator they are hampered by the lack of quality motors and gearing. For example, the early Tenshodo F units cannot be made to look like the units they represent. The nose it just all wrong. If one is collecting to document the history of Tenshodo, Japanese brass or brass models in general, they are fine. On the other hand, some of the Alco Models UBoats can be spruced up to look pretty authentic. I'm not a historical collector so the value of the models is what I can make of them, not what they are. A classic example is the low nose RSD12, a great little model if placed on a modern mechanism. BTW, anyone have one of these RSD12s laying around that they would like to part with? Lawrence D. (Dale) Hokanson dale.hokanson@... ____________________________________________________________________

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16702	From: Lawrence	Date: 5/30/2011
Subject: New mechs for old brass locos

Just curious. Has anyone on the list delved into applying new mechanisms (Atlas, Genesis, P2K, IMC, Kato) to older brass locomotives ... those old Japanese models from the 50s/60s? Any luck? Was it worth the time? I am especially interested in getting the older F, E and PA/PB units as well as the Lindsay (sp?) and Hobbyline models to run "nicely" on my layout. Dale in Spokane

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16703	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 5/30/2011
Subject: Kemtron "PUFFERBELLY" C&NW Pioneer HO Steam Locomotive

Happy Memorial Day All! Would anyone out there in VintageHO land happen to have a pilot deck and bell, or know if they are available from Precision Scale for Kemtron's "PUFFERBELLY" C&NW Pioneer HO Steam Locomotive? Just picked one up. I think I saw this listed only once before several years ago, but I might be wrong. http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/5777557216/in/photostream This is the catalog page for Kemtron: http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/5776749490/in/photostream   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16704	From: cwrailman	Date: 5/30/2011
Subject: Re: New mechs for old brass locos

Dale, Come visit us on the Yahoo based Remotoring and Regearing Group.  We discuss just this sort of work on a weekly basis.  I am one of that boards moderators and I have a clinic presented in picture format of reworking a brass steam loco but there are others who specialize in the brass diesels and might be able to assist you with what you want to do.  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/repowerandregear/?yguid=61385387 Time for my nap, Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops   --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Lawrence" <dale.hokanson@...> wrote: > > Just curious. Has anyone on the list delved into applying new mechanisms (Atlas, Genesis, P2K, IMC, Kato) to older brass locomotives ... those old Japanese models from the 50s/60s? Any luck? Was it worth the time? I am especially interested in getting the older F, E and PA/PB units as well as the Lindsay (sp?) and Hobbyline models to run "nicely" on my layout. > > Dale in Spokane >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16705	From: Railroad Modeler	Date: 5/30/2011
Subject: Re: Kemtron "PUFFERBELLY" C&NW Pioneer HO Steam Locomotive

I have one. A Kemtron Pioneer that is.   Today I was going to have two, but I didn’t anticipate any competition <*cough*SEAN*cough*> and didn’t set my bid high enough. That will teach me…   Other than the drive rod, it appears that all of the detail pieces are missing from this locomotive. Unless someone knows otherwise, Kemtron’s are tender driven. Literally. Like the HO ‘John Bull’ of Bachmann. This locomotive seems to have a drive mechanism like the Mantua 4-4-0s with a coupling shaft from the tender motor to the driven mains. Either it is a version that I was not aware, or it has been modified.   I was pretty excited to see it get all the way to the end with no bids, and thought for sure it was going to come live with me. Bummer I didn’t have any more money available…   When you get it, I would sure like to see some detail photos of that drive system.   Regards,   Ken B   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sean Naylor Sent: Monday, May 30, 2011 2:40 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Kemtron "PUFFERBELLY" C&NW Pioneer HO Steam Locomotive     Happy Memorial Day All! Would anyone out there in VintageHO land happen to have a pilot deck and bell, or know if they are available from Precision Scale for Kemtron's "PUFFERBELLY" C&NW Pioneer HO Steam Locomotive? Just picked one up. I think I saw this listed only once before several years ago, but I might be wrong. http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/5777557216/in/photostream This is the catalog page for Kemtron: http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/5776749490/in/photostream   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16706	From: Gerold Eckl	Date: 5/30/2011
Subject: Re: New mechs for old brass locos

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Lawrence" <dale.hokanson@...> wrote: > > Just curious. Has anyone on the list delved into applying new mechanisms (Atlas, Genesis, P2K, IMC, Kato) to older brass locomotives ... those old Japanese models from the 50s/60s? Any luck? Was it worth the time? I am especially interested in getting the older F, E and PA/PB units as well as the Lindsay (sp?) and Hobbyline models to run "nicely" on my layout. > > Dale in Spokane > Dale, I do this all the time. In most cases, the better, faster, cheaper  solution than tinkering with can motors, NWSL gears , driveshafts etc. and ending up with a loco that still makes noises like a coffeegrinder. For example, I have done my best to teach a Baldwin Babyface smooth running by such means... no luck. Some examples : two LL U-30 mechanisms under the Hallmark ATSF #1 "Amos + Andy" boxcab; Steward FT  under Hallmark FT, Blue Line U-27 under Hallmark U30CG, LL Erie built trucks + motor attached to the floor of Red Ball CNJ double ender. Usually this goes fairly easy, a problem encountered is the brass angle that is soldered to the sides of the brass body. Often the new mechanism wont clear the angle...it may be difficult to remove it on a painted model. Gerold

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16707	From: Glenn	Date: 5/30/2011
Subject: Re: Kemtron "PUFFERBELLY" C&NW Pioneer HO Steam Locomotive

I think the Kemtron loco came from the plastic version made by Lindberg—much as Kemtron also made a brass cast version of the Silver Streak O Scale  C.P. Huntington.    The Pioneer had a 4-wheel tender that used the “Teaspoon of Power”  or Lindsay power truck. gj   From: Railroad Modeler Sent: Monday, May 30, 2011 9:35 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Kemtron "PUFFERBELLY" C&NW Pioneer HO Steam Locomotive     I have one. A Kemtron Pioneer that is.   Today I was going to have two, but I didn’t anticipate any competition <*cough*SEAN*cough*> and didn’t set my bid high enough. That will teach me…   Other than the drive rod, it appears that all of the detail pieces are missing from this locomotive. Unless someone knows otherwise, Kemtron’s are tender driven. Literally. Like the HO ‘John Bull’ of Bachmann. This locomotive seems to have a drive mechanism like the Mantua 4-4-0s with a coupling shaft from the tender motor to the driven mains. Either it is a version that I was not aware, or it has been modified.   I was pretty excited to see it get all the way to the end with no bids, and thought for sure it was going to come live with me. Bummer I didn’t have any more money available…   When you get it, I would sure like to see some detail photos of that drive system.   Regards,   Ken B   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sean Naylor Sent: Monday, May 30, 2011 2:40 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Kemtron "PUFFERBELLY" C&NW Pioneer HO Steam Locomotive     Happy Memorial Day All! Would anyone out there in VintageHO land happen to have a pilot deck and bell, or know if they are available from Precision Scale for Kemtron's "PUFFERBELLY" C&NW Pioneer HO Steam Locomotive? Just picked one up. I think I saw this listed only once before several years ago, but I might be wrong. http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/5777557216/in/photostream This is the catalog page for Kemtron: http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/5776749490/in/photostream   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16708	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 5/31/2011
Subject: Re: Kemtron "PUFFERBELLY" C&NW Pioneer HO Steam Locomotive

I'd swear I've seen this engine listed only once before, but in pieces. I think it sold for an excess of $300, which is the reason it caught my eye, roughly five years ago or more. That was the only time in my 40, (soon to be 41) years that I had ever seen, let alone heard of this engine. Pretty good memory I suppose... I saw the pic (bad as it is) in this listing and thought for sure I had seen this engine before. One confirmation search of my Kemtron catalog about 2 hours before the listing ended confirmed my memories about the engine. Once I confirmed it, I was pretty excited too. I was working on the AutoCAD drawings of my house addition when it ended, but I did have my desktop computer on the listing page and watched the count down to the end. I too thought..due to the rarity of the piece, poor description, high starting price of $99 and bad photos, I might have been the only bidded and almost did not bid in the thoughts he might relist at a lower price. But I remembered what the last one sold for and thought, even at $100, it was still a good deal. Set my bid for $146..went back and changed it to $156..then $166 and finally changed to $176. I think you might be right about the drive.   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: Railroad Modeler <railroad.modeler@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, May 31, 2011 12:35:19 AM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Kemtron "PUFFERBELLY" C&NW Pioneer HO Steam Locomotive     I have one. A Kemtron Pioneer that is.   Today I was going to have two, but I didn’t anticipate any competition <*cough*SEAN*cough*> and didn’t set my bid high enough. That will teach me…   Other than the drive rod, it appears that all of the detail pieces are missing from this locomotive. Unless someone knows otherwise, Kemtron’s are tender driven. Literally. Like the HO ‘John Bull’ of Bachmann. This locomotive seems to have a drive mechanism like the Mantua 4-4-0s with a coupling shaft from the tender motor to the driven mains. Either it is a version that I was not aware, or it has been modified.   I was pretty excited to see it get all the way to the end with no bids, and thought for sure it was going to come live with me. Bummer I didn’t have any more money available…   When you get it, I would sure like to see some detail photos of that drive system.   Regards,   Ken B   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sean Naylor Sent: Monday, May 30, 2011 2:40 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Kemtron "PUFFERBELLY" C&NW Pioneer HO Steam Locomotive     Happy Memorial Day All! Would anyone out there in VintageHO land happen to have a pilot deck and bell, or know if they are available from Precision Scale for Kemtron's "PUFFERBELLY" C&NW Pioneer HO Steam Locomotive? Just picked one up. I think I saw this listed only once before several years ago, but I might be wrong. http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/5777557216/in/photostream This is the catalog page for Kemtron: http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/5776749490/in/photostream   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16709	From: dennyanspach	Date: 5/31/2011
Subject: Re: New mechs for old brass locos

Dale writes- >Has anyone on the list delved into applying new  > mechanisms (Atlas, Genesis, P2K, IMC, Kato) to older brass locomotives  > ... those old Japanese models from the 50s/60s? Any luck? Was it worth  > the time? I am especially interested in getting the older F, E and  > PA/PB units as well as the Lindsay (sp?) and Hobbyline models to run  > "nicely" on my layout. Gerold responds- I do this all the time. In most cases, the better, faster, cheaper  solution than tinkering with can motors, NWSL gears , driveshafts etc.  and ending up with a loco that still makes noises like a coffeegrinder.  The latter is wisdom that is both worth following, and is good advice worth taking home to the bank. nk.   BTW, many of the models powered by Lindsay power trucks can be made operationally quite acceptable by simply replacing the axle gears (NWSL). Seemingly unusual in domestic production, but perhaps not unsurprisingly at that early manufacture date, most of the plastic Lindsay gears were made of uncured plastic, and most have split over the years. Denny    Denny S.  Anspach MD Sacramento

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16710	From: Ray Marinaccio	Date: 5/31/2011
Subject: Re: Kemtron "PUFFERBELLY" C&NW Pioneer HO Steam Locomotive

Attachments : pioneer.jpg I was wondering who had made the plastic version.  I came across one in a box lot and the only markings on it were "made in Chicago".  Mine is missing alot of the original parts too. --- On Mon, 5/30/11, Glenn <glenn476@...> wrote: From: Glenn <glenn476@...> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Kemtron "PUFFERBELLY" C&NW Pioneer HO Steam Locomotive To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, May 30, 2011, 11:45 PM I think the Kemtron loco came from the plastic version made by Lindberg—much as Kemtron also made a brass cast version of the Silver Streak O Scale  C.P. Huntington.    The Pioneer had a 4-wheel tender that used the “Teaspoon of Power”  or Lindsay power truck. gj   From: Railroad Modeler Sent: Monday, May 30, 2011 9:35 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Kemtron "PUFFERBELLY" C&NW Pioneer HO Steam Locomotive     I have one. A Kemtron Pioneer that is.   Today I was going to have two, but I didn’t anticipate any competition <*cough*SEAN*cough*> and didn’t set my bid high enough. That will teach me…   Other than the drive rod, it appears that all of the detail pieces are missing from this locomotive. Unless someone knows otherwise, Kemtron’s are tender driven. Literally. Like the HO ‘John Bull’ of Bachmann. This locomotive seems to have a drive mechanism like the Mantua 4-4-0s with a coupling shaft from the tender motor to the driven mains. Either it is a version that I was not aware, or it has been modified.   I was pretty excited to see it get all the way to the end with no bids, and thought for sure it was going to come live with me. Bummer I didn’t have any more money available…   When you get it, I would sure like to see some detail photos of that drive system.   Regards,   Ken B   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sean Naylor Sent: Monday, May 30, 2011 2:40 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Kemtron "PUFFERBELLY" C&NW Pioneer HO Steam Locomotive     Happy Memorial Day All! Would anyone out there in VintageHO land happen to have a pilot deck and bell, or know if they are available from Precision Scale for Kemtron's "PUFFERBELLY" C&NW Pioneer HO Steam Locomotive? Just picked one up. I think I saw this listed only once before several years ago, but I might be wrong. http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/5777557216/in/photostream This is the catalog page for Kemtron: http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/5776749490/in/photostream   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!

@@attachment@@

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16711	From: Gerold Eckl	Date: 5/31/2011
Subject: Re: Kemtron "PUFFERBELLY" C&NW Pioneer HO Steam Locomotive

Sean , I have seen maybe five or so at evilbay in the last years... most in pieces. Remember an auction maybe one year ago which had parts from two locos... Cant remember an exact price but none of them was cheap ( or I would have won it) Gerold

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16712	From: Donald R. Staton	Date: 6/1/2011
Subject: ATTENTION MODERATOR - INQUIRY

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16713	From: jbark76	Date: 6/1/2011
Subject: Re: Kemtron "PUFFERBELLY" C&NW Pioneer HO Steam Locomotive

O-lin made the plastic version in the 50's and there was an article on how to power it in either Model Railroader or Railroad Model Craftsman. I'll have to dig to find the article, but I dug out my kit and I'll post the box cover and instructions. Jeff Barker

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16714	From: John Webster	Date: 6/2/2011
Subject: Re: Kemtron "PUFFERBELLY" C&NW Pioneer HO Steam Locomotive

The current Precision Scale catalog lists several parts for the Pioneer.   HO-31365 Pilot w/running boards $6.00   HO-31776 Pilot deck $3.50   HO-31864 Bell w/bracket 305mm $2.25   There are other parts but those might of most interest to you.   It's a shame that they don't publish their catalog with illustrations on their web site but they must think they make more money forcing parts buyers to pay for their catalog than they do selling parts.   John

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16715	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 6/2/2011
Subject: Re: Kemtron "PUFFERBELLY" C&NW Pioneer HO Steam Locomotive

Well All.. I have some news to report... I requested to the buyer that I be able to back out of the sale. I explained my mistake to him as best as I could and told him I was not in any way blaming him for my error. I told him what the engine was and what I had mistakenly took it for and he actually agreed to refund my money. Never before had I ever asked to back out of a purchase, but I think it was warranted this time. The cost of $122 for an engine I would expect to be worth ~$20 if I were to sell it with good photos and a good description was just a little to hard to swallow without trying. I thanked him very much and left him very positive feedback. I do like the idea of eventually acquiring one in brass, however. It is amazing to me at just how cheap the 3 parts this engine needed (had it been brass) are. I know the boiler, cab and tender shell are no longer made... (correct?)  I wonder just how hard it would be to get these reproduced. Thanks to everyone that did look up the prices and Precision Scale's address / phone number. I do think I would like to place an order with them eventually..but that would mean that I would have to actually be building something. Lately, I have been too busy with home remodeling projects, kids sports and Mustangs to have any time to actually enjoy spending time restoring any of my trains. I was pretty impressed with how cheap the parts were though. Does anyone have a PDF form of there most recent catalog? I have one, but I do not know how old it is. It has a CA buisness address so I think it is pretty old.   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16716	From: Glenn	Date: 6/2/2011
Subject: Re: Kemtron "PUFFERBELLY" C&NW Pioneer HO Steam Locomotive

PSC moved from Woodland, CA to Montana several years  ago.  The tooling for trhe Pioneer likely was lost inn the fire in the early 80’s.  I would say that your only options would be to find one you could take rubber molds off of—use them to create wax masters, and  have them shot in brass.  Or if you could find a plastic kit—have it shot in brass—but you lose the original that way.    gj   From: Sean Naylor Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2011 5:40 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ; yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Kemtron "PUFFERBELLY" C&NW Pioneer HO Steam Locomotive   Well All.. I have some news to report... I requested to the buyer that I be able to back out of the sale. I explained my mistake to him as best as I could and told him I was not in any way blaming him for my error. I told him what the engine was and what I had mistakenly took it for and he actually agreed to refund my money. Never before had I ever asked to back out of a purchase, but I think it was warranted this time. The cost of $122 for an engine I would expect to be worth ~$20 if I were to sell it with good photos and a good description was just a little to hard to swallow without trying. I thanked him very much and left him very positive feedback. I do like the idea of eventually acquiring one in brass, however. It is amazing to me at just how cheap the 3 parts this engine needed (had it been brass) are. I know the boiler, cab and tender shell are no longer made... (correct?)  I wonder just how hard it would be to get these reproduced. Thanks to everyone that did look up the prices and Precision Scale's address / phone number. I do think I would like to place an order with them eventually..but that would mean that I would have to actually be building something. Lately, I have been too busy with home remodeling projects, kids sports and Mustangs to have any time to actually enjoy spending time restoring any of my trains. I was pretty impressed with how cheap the parts were though. Does anyone have a PDF form of there most recent catalog? I have one, but I do not know how old it is. It has a CA buisness address so I think it is pretty old.   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16717	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 6/3/2011
Subject: Re: Kemtron "PUFFERBELLY" C&NW Pioneer HO Steam Locomotive

I have two of the old plastic models that the original owner melted part of the boilers during construction. You know what that old gel plastic cement can do if you use too much.... Bachmann parts has a similar boiler for their HO LaFayette 4-2-0 <http://estore.bachmanntrains.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=66_68_169&products_id=1127&zenid=62t0jgn4mh212g9dcq0mr6ld23 > OR.... http://tinyurl.com/69al7px You might consider using it. While it looks easy to make, I just haven't got around to doing that. A couple of pieces of tubing and or wood dowel would be the bulk the needs to make the boiler. My old swap-meet kits are on my 'gonna make new boilers' list. I believe that the original kit tender has -no- rivet details on the tender shell. I suspect it is like the Minnetonka that is of the same era, now sitting in the Duluth train museum. The tender shell is just a formed sheet of iron with a beaded [rolled edge] top, just a hollow shell of a firewood container. You could cut one tender shell from metal, bend it to form, solder on a thread of copper wire from an old electrical cord on the top edge of it, and be accurate. Would you like a template made from the kit tender??? I could make one of those in moments, sometime this weekend. Assuming the kits are where I last remember putting them. Best to ya, Mike Bauers Milwaukee, Wi On Jun 2, 2011, at 7:40 AM, Sean Naylor wrote: > > > Well All.. > > I have some news to report... > > I requested to the buyer that I be able to back out of the sale. I > explained my mistake to him as best as I could and told him I was > not in any way blaming him for my error. I told him what the engine > was and what I had mistakenly took it for and he actually agreed to > refund my money. Never before had I ever asked to back out of a > purchase, but I think it was warranted this time. The cost of $122 > for an engine I would expect to be worth ~$20 if I were to sell it > with good photos and a good description was just a little to hard to > swallow without trying. I thanked him very much and left him very > positive feedback. > > I do like the idea of eventually acquiring one in brass, however. It > is amazing to me at just how cheap the 3 parts this engine needed > (had it been brass) are. I know the boiler, cab and tender shell are > no longer made... (correct?) I wonder just how hard it would be to > get these reproduced. > > Thanks to everyone that did look up the prices and Precision Scale's > address / phone number. > > I do think I would like to place an order with them eventually..but > that would mean that I would have to actually be building something. > Lately, I have been too busy with home remodeling projects, kids > sports and Mustangs to have any time to actually enjoy spending time > restoring any of my trains. I was pretty impressed with how cheap > the parts were though. > > Does anyone have a PDF form of there most recent catalog? I have > one, but I do not know how old it is. It has a CA buisness address > so I think it is pretty old. > > Sean > > "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - > Mario Andretti! > > > Best to ya, Mike Bauers Milwaukee, Wi

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16718	From: WalterB	Date: 6/3/2011
Subject: NYC Hudson

Can anyone ID this one on eBay (220793384109)? Is it OO or HO? Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16719	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 6/3/2011
Subject: Re: NYC Hudson

From appearances, ScaleCraft, outside third rail, probably not insulated drivers, "00". ScaleCraft bought into "00" instead of "Half-0", which is why they went out of business in 1946. The full "0" scale stuff is sand-cast bronze, heavy, reliable, good pullers. The "0" versions had field wound motors, just like shown in the photos, but bigger, and a hand-reverse (Hudsons a wafer switch in the boiler, you rotated the steam dome for forward-neutral-reverse). I have one in "0". You'd have to buy it and look for casting identifiers. For "00" guys, a good find, but for scale Half-0, not. Dave > Can anyone ID this one on eBay (220793384109)? Is it OO or HO? > Walter >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16720	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 6/3/2011
Subject: Re: NYC Hudson

I was thinking Scale Craft myself.  Definitely OO scale. Was watching lots of his stuff too.   Sean     Sent from my iPhone On Jun 3, 2011, at 1:31 PM, "trainsnwrcs" <idioticyahoo@...> wrote:   From appearances, ScaleCraft, outside third rail, probably not insulated drivers, "00". ScaleCraft bought into "00" instead of "Half-0", which is why they went out of business in 1946. The full "0" scale stuff is sand-cast bronze, heavy, reliable, good pullers. The "0" versions had field wound motors, just like shown in the photos, but bigger, and a hand-reverse (Hudsons a wafer switch in the boiler, you rotated the steam dome for forward-neutral-reverse). I have one in "0". You'd have to buy it and look for casting identifiers. For "00" guys, a good find, but for scale Half-0, not. Dave > Can anyone ID this one on eBay (220793384109)? Is it OO or HO? > Walter >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16721	From: John H	Date: 6/3/2011
Subject: Re: NYC Hudson

The OO group has it identified as a Nason and I believe them to be correct. Not that I am any authority on these, I do keep watching for American OO, thinking I'd like to own a few pieces. I have looked at several Scale Craft hudsons and thought that this one was not of the same quality. Their identification by a trade mark found on the bottem confirms that thought. John Hagen --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "WalterB" <bayerw2@...> wrote: > > Can anyone ID this one on eBay (220793384109)? Is it OO or HO? > Walter >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16722	From: Glenn	Date: 6/3/2011
Subject: stuff found

“Yard Saling” this morning, I got a box of old HO trains—most seem to be parts items: Athearn (?) metal tank car 3-dome tank (underframe crumbled)  in yellow box with Van Buren Ave address-- Two Mantua die-cast flatcars—both have Zamak Rot, but there are two good trucks—in an Athearn yellow box like above.  Varney(?) covered hopper—bright red “Santa Fe” with cream-colored roof and underframe. A Borden’s “bread-loaf” milk tank—probably  goes on a flatcar-- A set of sides /ends looking like a reefer body, yellow lettered “38806  Mine Carrier  Explosives Danger do not hump this car”.  looks like an exploding car?     I think they’ll go in a flat-rate envelope for $5.05—and $4.95 for the parts and boxes?    glenn Joesten

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16723	From: Jens	Date: 6/3/2011
Subject: deleting former ebay Powerseller Gold Shop with Items HO,N,O,On30,G

deleting former ebay Powerseller Gold Shop with Items HO,N,O,On30,G etc Hi Guys, I am still deleting my brother in laws former ebay Powerseller Gold Shop with Engines, Scenery and Rolling Stock Items Scale N till G. Please contact me offlist (oneto87@...) for a list of the Scale you need Thanks for your attention Jens Kinne Owner of the yahoo group: oneto87

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16724	From: Rick Jones	Date: 6/4/2011
Subject: Renumbering

Elsewhere, methods of removing the numbers on pre-painted plastic cars for purposes of renumbering have often been discussed. I have often pondered how to do this with our many pre-painted side in wooden kits, such as Silver Streak, Ulrich and Central Valley. Has anybody tackled this problem with satisfactory results? There's of course, just painting out the number you want to change and decaling over it. I wonder if there's a better method available> -- Rick Jones Someone who thinks logically provides a nice contrast to the real world.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16725	From: jim heckard	Date: 6/4/2011
Subject: Conover Paperwork

This is to let members who might be interested that through the generosity of Ray F W  6 new and different full size pages about Conover's 2-10-2 are being sent to be put on HOseeker. They are part of a Manuel that goes with the 4 pages already on HOseeker given by jeffbark76.        There is a lot of new and interesting information. The first sheet tells about the engine which was first made pre war by Conover and Conover-Laconia and post war by   Baldwin Model Locomotive Works / Greenwich Conn  and later by    Clark A Benson  / Stratford, Conn.   All engines came from the same molds. The only real difference was the pre war Conover 2-10-2's used a large Mantua 6 volt motor. Later post war engines used a Pittman DC-71. Also there is a parts list sheet, a superstructure assembly sheet, a sheet containing pictures of a completed engine with tender and also a sheet how you can substitute some Penn Line 2-10-0 parts. The last sheet is the best for me as it shows a full size drawing of the assembled valve gear showing each part, the guides, eccentrics, main rod including other drawings how to install to the main driver. Lots of really good information.   THANKS Ray F W ( Erie Berk ) for sharing.  You sure found the info that will eventually help me finish my engine.                                                    Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16726	From: Jim Waterman	Date: 6/5/2011
Subject: Re: Renumbering

Regarding removal of numbers, if they are basically stamped on ink, or printed paint, I have used one of two methods. First is a material called MAAS, it's a fine pink colored cream, primarily used to remove oxidation from metals, but also acts as a kind of very fine polishing media. Use a tiny amount on a small piece of tissue or on a Qtip, and it will remove the numbers, leaving behind a smooth painted surface. I have also used one of the 'scratch remover' materials you can buy in a parts store, made by folks like Meguiars Jim

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16727	From: Andrew Emmerson	Date: 6/5/2011
Subject: Re: Renumbering

T-Cut, the stuff for smartening up car paintwork, is just as effective. I know they sell T-Cut in the States.   Just as good is Duraglit but I don't know whether they sell Duraglit wadding your side of the Pond. It's a cotton wadding soaked in metal polish used for cleaning old cutlery.   Andy Emmerson. From: Jim Waterman Sent: Sunday, June 05, 2011 12:58 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Renumbering   Regarding removal of numbers, if they are basically stamped on ink, or printed paint, I have used one of two methods. First is a material called MAAS, it's a fine pink colored cream, primarily used to remove oxidation from metals, but also acts as a kind of very fine polishing media. Use a tiny amount on a small piece of tissue or on a Qtip, and it will remove the numbers, leaving behind a smooth painted surface. I have also used one of the 'scratch remover' materials you can buy in a parts store, made by folks like Meguiars Jim

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16728	From: cwrailman	Date: 6/7/2011
Subject: Re: Renumbering

Here in the states they sell a product that is called Never-Dull which sounds like your Duraglit. It is wadding with a cleaning polish imbedded. It is used on metal surfaces to remove oxidation. However a product that may work like T-Cut is Semi-Chrome and is available at most motorcucle shops and some automotive stores. Though after using either I would wipe the surface down with alcohol or some sort of thinner to remove the wax. Now back to the shops, Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Andrew Emmerson" <andrew.emmerson4@...> wrote: > > T-Cut, the stuff for smartening up car paintwork, is just as effective. I know they sell T-Cut in the States. > > Just as good is Duraglit but I don't know whether they sell Duraglit wadding your side of the Pond. It's a cotton wadding soaked in metal polish used for cleaning old cutlery. > > Andy Emmerson. > > > From: Jim Waterman > Sent: Sunday, June 05, 2011 12:58 PM > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Renumbering > > > > Regarding removal of numbers, if they are basically stamped on ink, or > printed paint, I have used one of two methods. > > First is a material called MAAS, it's a fine pink colored cream, > primarily used to remove oxidation from metals, but also acts as a kind > of very fine polishing media. Use a tiny amount on a small piece of > tissue or on a Qtip, and it will remove the numbers, leaving behind a > smooth painted surface. > > I have also used one of the 'scratch remover' materials you can buy in a > parts store, made by folks like Meguiars > > Jim >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16730	From: Charles	Date: 6/7/2011
Subject: Re: Renumbering

Actually, it's spelled "Simichrome". Perhaps just about any fine polishing compound would work including the final polish in kits for headlamp polishing or any plastic polish product. Perhaps even toothpaste? Chuck Kinzer --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "cwrailman" <cwrailman@...> wrote: > > Here in the states they sell a product that is called Never-Dull which sounds like your Duraglit. It is wadding with a cleaning polish imbedded. It is used on metal surfaces to remove oxidation. > > However a product that may work like T-Cut is Semi-Chrome and is available at most motorcucle shops and some automotive stores. Though after using either I would wipe the surface down with alcohol or some sort of thinner to remove the wax. > > Now back to the shops, > > Denny > Janitor in Training > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Andrew Emmerson" <andrew.emmerson4@> wrote: > > > > T-Cut, the stuff for smartening up car paintwork, is just as effective. I know they sell T-Cut in the States. > > > > Just as good is Duraglit but I don't know whether they sell Duraglit wadding your side of the Pond. It's a cotton wadding soaked in metal polish used for cleaning old cutlery. > > > > Andy Emmerson. > > > > > > From: Jim Waterman > > Sent: Sunday, June 05, 2011 12:58 PM > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Renumbering > > > > > > > > Regarding removal of numbers, if they are basically stamped on ink, or > > printed paint, I have used one of two methods. > > > > First is a material called MAAS, it's a fine pink colored cream, > > primarily used to remove oxidation from metals, but also acts as a kind > > of very fine polishing media. Use a tiny amount on a small piece of > > tissue or on a Qtip, and it will remove the numbers, leaving behind a > > smooth painted surface. > > > > I have also used one of the 'scratch remover' materials you can buy in a > > parts store, made by folks like Meguiars > > > > Jim > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16731	From: dasha	Date: 6/7/2011
Subject: Blue Line Passenger cars

I was recently introduced to the old Blue Line Passenger kits made in the 1950's. They were not known to me, and when I tried to look them up, I found two addresses for them. One in Spring Valley , California and Blue Island , Illinois . The inter-net is very short of real information on this company or it's production. Does anyone have better sources for their history, collectors, and parts? I've selected to build a Union Pacific passenger train , since I have a Vista, combine and coach to start. I've no idea how difficult it might be to fine the balance of these cars. lol Old time kits are something ti,me consuming and so interesting to build. Thank you for any information . Cheers !

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16732	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 6/7/2011
Subject: Re: Blue Line Passenger cars

----- Original Message ----- From: "dasha" <dasha469@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2011 12:13 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Blue Line Passenger cars >I was recently introduced to the old Blue Line Passenger kits made in the >1950's. They were not known to me, and when I tried to look them up, I >found two addresses for them. One in Spring Valley , California and Blue >Island , Illinois . The inter-net is very short of real information on this >company or it's production. Does anyone have better sources for their >history, collectors, and parts? I've selected to build a Union Pacific >passenger train , since I have a Vista, combine and coach to start. I've no >idea how difficult it might be to fine the balance of these cars. lol Old >time kits are something ti,me consuming and so interesting to build. Thank >you for any information . Cheers ! > Blue Lines is one of my favorite brands (probably second only to Samson). There are quite a few still out there. There were two distinctive series. The original cars were made from about 1947 to 1951-53, and were a one piece extruded aluminum body. To the best of my knowledge they were only available unpainted. The factory paint units from the early 1950's on had a multi piece body that needed some soldering to assemble, and had beautiful paint jobs. I recently built a few given me by another member, and the only thing I really did different from stock is I cut new wooden floors instead of using the sheet metal floors provided. Actually, if you come across any Samson smooth side cars or American Beauty cars, they fit in very well with the Blue Lines also. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16733	From: Richard White	Date: 6/7/2011
Subject: Re: Blue Line Passenger cars

Attachments : BlueLineGN Observ.jpg Hi Don and Dasha- Actually, the one-piece aluminum bodies were also available factory-painted (UP yellow, SP Golden State, SP Overland, SP Daylight, NYC, PRR, IC, C&NW, and GN). The 3-piece steel bodied versions were available in the same roadnames, and did NOT require any soldering. The problem with those was attaching the steel floors. I use 0-80 machine screws. I have assembled quite a few of these (both versions) from kits I've obtained on EBay over the last couple of years. Constructing either version requires some skill. I can consult with you on this, and can send photos as well. I do not use the included foam full-width diaphragms, but install Train Station Products dummy diaphragms instead.  The best trucks for these cars are Central Valley T-39, also available on EBay. I also install American Beauty swing-hangers for Kadee #47 couplers. Attached is a photo of my Great Northern observation car. Regards- Richard White    To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: don.dellmann@... Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2011 18:13:38 -0500 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Blue Line Passenger cars   ----- Original Message ----- From: "dasha" <dasha469@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2011 12:13 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Blue Line Passenger cars >I was recently introduced to the old Blue Line Passenger kits made in the >1950's. They were not known to me, and when I tried to look them up, I >found two addresses for them. One in Spring Valley , California and Blue >Island , Illinois . The inter-net is very short of real information on this >company or it's production. Does anyone have better sources for their >history, collectors, and parts? I've selected to build a Union Pacific >passenger train , since I have a Vista, combine and coach to start. I've no >idea how difficult it might be to fine the balance of these cars. lol Old >time kits are something ti,me consuming and so interesting to build. Thank >you for any information . Cheers ! > Blue Lines is one of my favorite brands (probably second only to Samson). There are quite a few still out there. There were two distinctive series. The original cars were made from about 1947 to 1951-53, and were a one piece extruded aluminum body. To the best of my knowledge they were only available unpainted. The factory paint units from the early 1950's on had a multi piece body that needed some soldering to assemble, and had beautiful paint jobs. I recently built a few given me by another member, and the only thing I really did different from stock is I cut new wooden floors instead of using the sheet metal floors provided. Actually, if you come across any Samson smooth side cars or American Beauty cars, they fit in very well with the Blue Lines also. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 16734	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 6/7/2011
Subject: Re: Blue Line Passenger cars [1 Attachment]

Attachments : 000_0020.jpg 000_0019.jpg The one piece body was made from sheet aluminum, not extruded.  I even have one that has Alcoa printed on the metal.  While I do not know which cars they all were modeled from, I do have some of them.  I have attached two photos of my IC cars.  Unfortunately for me, the newspaper I wrapped them in during one move stuck to the orange paint.  I used the MDC or Roundhouse modern trucks on mine. Take care,   Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Richard White Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2011 7:31 PM To: Jim Heckard Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Blue Line Passenger cars [1 Attachment]     Hi Don and Dasha- Actually, the one-piece aluminum bodies were also available factory-painted (UP yellow, SP Golden State, SP Overland, SP Daylight, NYC, PRR, IC, C&NW, and GN). The 3-piece steel bodied versions were available in the same roadnames, and did NOT require any soldering. The problem with those was attaching the steel floors. I use 0-80 machine screws. I have assembled quite a few of these (both versions) from kits I've obtained on EBay over the last couple of years. Constructing either version requires some skill. I can consult with you on this, and can send photos as well. I do not use the included foam full-width diaphragms, but install Train Station Products dummy diaphragms instead.  The best trucks for these cars are Central Valley T-39, also available on EBay. I also install American Beauty swing-hangers for Kadee #47 couplers. Attached is a photo of my Great Northern observation car. Regards- Richard White    To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: don.dellmann@... Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2011 18:13:38 -0500 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Blue Line Passenger cars   ----- Original Message ----- From: "dasha" <dasha469@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2011 12:13 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Blue Line Passenger cars >I was recently introduced to the old Blue Line Passenger kits made in the >1950's. They were not known to me, and when I tried to look them up, I >found two addresses for them. One in Spring Valley , California and Blue > Island , Illinois . The inter-net is very short of real information on this >company or it's production. Does anyone have better sources for their >history, collectors, and parts? I've selected to build a Union Pacific >passenger train , since I have a Vista , combine and coach to start. I've no >idea how difficult it might be to fine the balance of these cars. lol Old >time kits are something ti,me consuming and so interesting to build. Thank >you for any information . Cheers ! > Blue Lines is one of my favorite brands (probably second only to Samson). There are quite a few still out there. There were two distinctive series. The original cars were made from about 1947 to 1951-53, and were a one piece extruded aluminum body. To the best of my knowledge they were only available unpainted. The factory paint units from the early 1950's on had a multi piece body that needed some soldering to assemble, and had beautiful paint jobs. I recently built a few given me by another member, and the only thing I really did different from stock is I cut new wooden floors instead of using the sheet metal floors provided. Actually, if you come across any Samson smooth side cars or American Beauty cars, they fit in very well with the Blue Lines also. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@prodigynet http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 16735	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 6/7/2011
Subject: Re: Blue Line Passenger cars

Here is a seller with a bunch of American Beauty and Blue Line cars for sale: http://toys.shop.ebay.com/Other-/484/i.html?_catref=1&_dmpt=Model_RR_Trains&_fln=1&_ipg=25&_ssn=flyingbabyl&_trksid=p3286.c0.m282 His eBay ID is flyingbabyl and is a good seller - I have bought from him a few times. For the record, Don is right about Blue Line and American Beauty cars fitting well with each other - I have a train of C&NW American Beauty coaches, but the baggage car is Blue Line, and they do fit well with each other, the differences are barely noticable. Only major difference, is the green roof on the Blue Line C&NW cars, but dark gray roofs on the American Beauty. As some of my American Beauty wood roofs were dinged, I patched them up with Bondo, sanded them down smooth again, then painted the roofs green. This was done before I got my Blue Line car anyway! -Steve Neubaum --- On Tue, 6/7/11, Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote: From: Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Blue Line Passenger cars To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, June 7, 2011, 6:13 PM   ----- Original Message ----- From: "dasha" <dasha469@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2011 12:13 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Blue Line Passenger cars >I was recently introduced to the old Blue Line Passenger kits made in the >1950's. They were not known to me, and when I tried to look them up, I >found two addresses for them. One in Spring Valley , California and Blue >Island , Illinois . The inter-net is very short of real information on this >company or it's production. Does anyone have better sources for their >history, collectors, and parts? I've selected to build a Union Pacific >passenger train , since I have a Vista, combine and coach to start. I've no >idea how difficult it might be to fine the balance of these cars. lol Old >time kits are something ti,me consuming and so interesting to build. Thank >you for any information . Cheers ! > Blue Lines is one of my favorite brands (probably second only to Samson). There are quite a few still out there. There were two distinctive series. The original cars were made from about 1947 to 1951-53, and were a one piece extruded aluminum body. To the best of my knowledge they were only available unpainted. The factory paint units from the early 1950's on had a multi piece body that needed some soldering to assemble, and had beautiful paint jobs. I recently built a few given me by another member, and the only thing I really did different from stock is I cut new wooden floors instead of using the sheet metal floors provided. Actually, if you come across any Samson smooth side cars or American Beauty cars, they fit in very well with the Blue Lines also. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16736	From: Richard White	Date: 6/7/2011
Subject: Re: Blue Line Passenger cars

Dasha- Regarding the American Beauty and Blue Line kits referenced: you can usually get these kits for half (or less) of the prices shown. It just requires some patience! --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote: > > Here is a seller with a bunch of American Beauty and Blue Line cars for sale: > > http://toys.shop.ebay.com/Other-/484/i.html?_catref=1&_dmpt=Model_RR_Trains&_fln=1&_ipg=25&_ssn=flyingbabyl&_trksid=p3286.c0.m282 > > His eBay ID is flyingbabyl and is a good seller - I have bought from him a few times. > > For the record, Don is right about Blue Line and American Beauty cars fitting well with each other - I have a train of C&NW American Beauty coaches, but the baggage car is Blue Line, and they do fit well with each other, the differences are barely noticable. > > Only major difference, is the green roof on the Blue Line C&NW cars, but dark gray roofs on the American Beauty. As some of my American Beauty wood roofs were dinged, I patched them up with Bondo, sanded them down smooth again, then painted the roofs green. This was done before I got my Blue Line car anyway! > > -Steve Neubaum > > --- On Tue, 6/7/11, Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > From: Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Blue Line Passenger cars > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Date: Tuesday, June 7, 2011, 6:13 PM > > > > > > > >   > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "dasha" <dasha469@...> > > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2011 12:13 PM > > Subject: [vintageHO] Blue Line Passenger cars > > > > >I was recently introduced to the old Blue Line Passenger kits made in the > > >1950's. They were not known to me, and when I tried to look them up, I > > >found two addresses for them. One in Spring Valley , California and Blue > > >Island , Illinois . The inter-net is very short of real information on this > > >company or it's production. Does anyone have better sources for their > > >history, collectors, and parts? I've selected to build a Union Pacific > > >passenger train , since I have a Vista, combine and coach to start. I've no > > >idea how difficult it might be to fine the balance of these cars. lol Old > > >time kits are something ti,me consuming and so interesting to build. Thank > > >you for any information . Cheers ! > > > > > > > Blue Lines is one of my favorite brands (probably second only to Samson). > > There are quite a few still out there. There were two distinctive series. > > The original cars were made from about 1947 to 1951-53, and were a one piece > > extruded aluminum body. To the best of my knowledge they were only > > available unpainted. The factory paint units from the early 1950's on had a > > multi piece body that needed some soldering to assemble, and had beautiful > > paint jobs. I recently built a few given me by another member, and the only > > thing I really did different from stock is I cut new wooden floors instead > > of using the sheet metal floors provided. > > > > Actually, if you come across any Samson smooth side cars or American Beauty > > cars, they fit in very well with the Blue Lines also. > > > > Don > > > > Don Dellmann > > don.dellmann@... > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ > > http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction > > Owner > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16737	From: Rick Jones	Date: 6/7/2011
Subject: Re: Renumbering

On 6/7/2011 10:57 AM, Charles wrote: > Perhaps just about any fine polishing compound would work including > the final polish in kits for headlamp polishing or any plastic polish > product. Perhaps even toothpaste? The trick, of course, is to remove the numbers without removing the other paint under or around the reporting marks. As mentioned, there have been many suggestions in forums and in magazines over the years on how to do this with Athearn, MDC and other plastic models, but I've never heard of any for our pre-painted wooden craftsman kits. -- Rick Jones If flying is so safe then why do they call the airport the terminal?

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16738	From: cwrailman	Date: 6/8/2011
Subject: Looking to trade Walthers passenger cars for Ambroid passenger cars

I have five unbuilt Walthers passenger car kits I would like to trade for three unbuilt Ambroid passenger car kits. They can be individual passenger car kits but I would prefer getting the three passenger cars in one box kit. They can also be the Northeastern cars as long as they are all passenger cars. If you are interested in making such a swap, please contact me off line. No partial builds please. Off to the shops Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16739	From: Jack Kelley	Date: 6/8/2011
Subject: Wanted - Athearn #5407

Group, I am looking for two or three Athearn Offset Twin Hoppers; Athearn #5407. Will pay well. Thanks, jkelley01938ATYahoo.com

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16740	From: jbark76	Date: 6/8/2011
Subject: Re: Blue Line Passenger cars

Just wanted to say that I prefer the trucks from American Beauty over the ones from Blue Line and others. They are similar to Central Valley trucks.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16741	From: cwrailman	Date: 6/8/2011
Subject: Dens Hobby Shop

So I was thinking the other day, wouldn't it be great if we could go back in time to one of those old hobby shops that had shelves filled with craftsman kits. We could point to one, the proprietor would pull it off the shelf and let us open it on the counter top so we could look at all the goodies inside. Go to the files section and click on Dens Hobby Shop. Click on the Dens Virtual Hobby Shop XLS file and what you should see is the beginning of a wall of kits. Pick one, click on it and I'll open it up for you. When your done, hit your back button and if it prompts you to Save please say NO!! Sombody please let me know if this does work!! I wish I had some puter skills to lay this out like a virtual hobby shop so the kits would open on a display case counter and they would seem to be on a shelf. If anyone has such skills I think this would be a much appreciated program to develop. Anyway it is an idea. Now back to the shops, Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16742	From: herb1013@epix.net	Date: 6/8/2011
Subject: Re: Dens Hobby Shop

Attachments : OldHO3.JPG Here is a shelf in your hobby shop from the 40s. Check out the prices.     Bionic Herb,Br 38 NALC,Gods Knob, Milk Can Corners

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 16743	From: herb1013@epix.net	Date: 6/8/2011
Subject: Re: Dens Hobby Shop [1 Attachment]

Attachments : OldHO4 (600 x 450).jpg here is another shelf from your new hobby shop.   Bionic Herb,Br 38 NALC,Gods Knob, Milk Can Corners

@@attachment@@

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16744	From: herb1013@epix.net	Date: 6/8/2011
Subject: Re: Dens Hobby Shop [1 Attachment]

Attachments : OldHO5 (600 x 450).jpg And a 3rd shelf in your new hobby shop.   Bionic Herb,Br 38 NALC,Gods Knob, Milk Can Corners

@@attachment@@

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16745	From: Railroad Modeler	Date: 6/8/2011
Subject: Re: Dens Hobby Shop

I see 6 boxes, 4 on the left stack and 2 on the right stack.   When I click any of the boxes I get a 404 error (page not found).   When I go back to the app, I get a save/don’t save/open (read only) dialog, to which I select open (read only).   That takes me back to the xls with the 6 boxes.   I believe that the reason for the 404 is due to the temporary nature of links generated by the software used by Yahoo Groups. If the images are in a group photo folder, perhaps you could use the permalink instead?   Regards,   Ken B   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of cwrailman Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2011 1:35 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Dens Hobby Shop  So I was thinking the other day, wouldn't it be great if we could go back in time to one of those old hobby shops that had shelves filled with craftsman kits. We could point to one, the proprietor would pull it off the shelf and let us open it on the counter top so we could look at all the goodies inside. Go to the files section and click on Dens Hobby Shop. Click on the Dens Virtual Hobby Shop XLS file and what you should see is the beginning of a wall of kits. Pick one, click on it and I'll open it up for you. When your done, hit your back button and if it prompts you to Save please say NO!! Sombody please let me know if this does work!! I wish I had some puter skills to lay this out like a virtual hobby shop so the kits would open on a display case counter and they would seem to be on a shelf. If anyone has such skills I think this would be a much appreciated program to develop. Anyway it is an idea. Now back to the shops, Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16746	From: cwrailman	Date: 6/8/2011
Subject: Re: Dens Hobby Shop

Now give it a try. I forgot that Yahoo gives a random address to any "file" so you cannot like to anything in the files section because that address changes periodically. I moved the images into the photo section where I believe they reamin at a constant address. Now back to my nap. Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Railroad Modeler <railroad.modeler@...> wrote: > > > > I see 6 boxes, 4 on the left stack and 2 on the right stack. > > > > When I click any of the boxes I get a 404 error (page not found). > > > > When I go back to the app, I get a save/don’t save/open (read only) dialog, to which I select open (read only). > > > > That takes me back to the xls with the 6 boxes. > > > > I believe that the reason for the 404 is due to the temporary nature of links generated by the software used by Yahoo Groups. If the images are in a group photo folder, perhaps you could use the permalink instead? > > > > Regards, > > > > Ken B > > > > _____ > > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of cwrailman > Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2011 1:35 PM > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [vintageHO] Dens Hobby Shop > > So I was thinking the other day, wouldn't it be great if we could go back in time to one of those old hobby shops that had shelves filled with craftsman kits. We could point to one, the proprietor would pull it off the shelf and let us open it on the counter top so we could look at all the goodies inside. > > Go to the files section and click on Dens Hobby Shop. Click on the Dens Virtual Hobby Shop XLS file and what you should see is the beginning of a wall of kits. Pick one, click on it and I'll open it up for you. When your done, hit your back button and if it prompts you to Save please say NO!! > > Sombody please let me know if this does work!! > > I wish I had some puter skills to lay this out like a virtual hobby shop so the kits would open on a display case counter and they would seem to be on a shelf. If anyone has such skills I think this would be a much appreciated program to develop. > > Anyway it is an idea. > > Now back to the shops, > > Denny > Janitor in Training > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16747	From: cwrailman	Date: 6/8/2011
Subject: Re: Dens Hobby Shop

Herb, That is what I am talking about. A hobby shop full of such stuff that you can open up and look through. Those are the original "Yellow Box" kits not FSM. I think I fixed the links to mine now. Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, <herb1013@...> wrote: > > Here is a shelf in your hobby shop from the 40s. Check out the prices. > > > Bionic Herb,Br 38 NALC,Gods Knob, Milk Can Corners >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16748	From: Railroad Modeler	Date: 6/8/2011
Subject: Re: Dens Hobby Shop

Works like a charm.   Clicking each of the boxes in the xls opens to a photo album page for each of the corresponding kits.   Ken B   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of cwrailman Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2011 3:31 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Dens Hobby Shop     Now give it a try. I forgot that Yahoo gives a random address to any "file" so you cannot like to anything in the files section because that address changes periodically. I moved the images into the photo section where I believe they reamin at a constant address. Now back to my nap. Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Railroad Modeler <railroad.modeler@...> wrote: > > > > I see 6 boxes, 4 on the left stack and 2 on the right stack. > > > > When I click any of the boxes I get a 404 error (page not found). > > > > When I go back to the app, I get a save/don’t save/open (read only) dialog, to which I select open (read only). > > > > That takes me back to the xls with the 6 boxes. > > > > I believe that the reason for the 404 is due to the temporary nature of links generated by the software used by Yahoo Groups. If the images are in a group photo folder, perhaps you could use the permalink instead? > > > > Regards, > > > > Ken B > > > > _____ > > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of cwrailman > Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2011 1:35 PM > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [vintageHO] Dens Hobby Shop > > So I was thinking the other day, wouldn't it be great if we could go back in time to one of those old hobby shops that had shelves filled with craftsman kits. We could point to one, the proprietor would pull it off the shelf and let us open it on the counter top so we could look at all the goodies inside. > > Go to the files section and click on Dens Hobby Shop. Click on the Dens Virtual Hobby Shop XLS file and what you should see is the beginning of a wall of kits. Pick one, click on it and I'll open it up for you. When your done, hit your back button and if it prompts you to Save please say NO!! > > Sombody please let me know if this does work!! > > I wish I had some puter skills to lay this out like a virtual hobby shop so the kits would open on a display case counter and they would seem to be on a shelf. If anyone has such skills I think this would be a much appreciated program to develop. > > Anyway it is an idea. > > Now back to the shops, > > Denny > Janitor in Training > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16749	From: herb1013@epix.net	Date: 6/8/2011
Subject: Re: Dens Hobby Shop

Your idea would be a great idea. Trouble with my boxes each kit is finished. My father started buying those kits for me when I was 5 years old. Now all stored in my basement with my 4 by 8 foot layout. Now I have a 40 by 55 foot 3 story barn and no money to put into a layout inside it. What fun that would be. Herb   Bionic Herb,Br 38 NALC,Gods Knob, Milk Can Corners

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16750	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 6/8/2011
Subject: Re: Dens Hobby Shop [1 Attachment]

Well, it's the 60's rather than the 40's, but other than that....... Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: <herb1013@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2011 3:52 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Dens Hobby Shop [1 Attachment] Here is a shelf in your hobby shop from the 40s. Check out the prices. Bionic Herb,Br 38 NALC,Gods Knob, Milk Can Corners

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16751	From: cwrailman	Date: 6/8/2011
Subject: Dens Hobby Shop New Central Valley kits arrived today

Got a shippment of Central Valley kits in today and they are now on display in the store. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/files/Dens%20Hobby%20Shop/ Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16752	From: jbark76	Date: 6/9/2011
Subject: MRR DVD collection

I got an email from Model Railroader today and they are offering a DVD set including all magazines from 1934-2009 (for $200). This would be great for researching old models. I have lots of old magazines, but not 900 of them. I wonder if (Railroad) Model Craftsman will do the same. -Jeff Barker-

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16753	From: nvrr49	Date: 6/9/2011
Subject: Re: Dens Hobby Shop New Central Valley kits arrived today

So can we all contribute? Send you a picture of the end of the box and a picture of the box contents. Kent in KC --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "cwrailman" <cwrailman@...> wrote: > > Got a shippment of Central Valley kits in today and they are now on display in the store. > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/files/Dens%20Hobby%20Shop/ > > Denny > Janitor in Training > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16754	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 6/9/2011
Subject: Re: MRR DVD collection

Yes, most of us has seen this and I am actually afraid to show that to my wife, because I am absolutely sure she would purchase it and make me throw away or sell my whole collection which is complete from 1945 on to present day and quite a few back to 1938 or so. Aside from that part, there are some concerns.  Can the pages be printed full size so that the drawing can be used in proper scale?  Can this DVD be used on more than one system, for example if I install it on my old HP Desktop and then purchase a new Lenovo laptop, can I move it or for that matter, use it from both systems?  There is another aside question.  Our NMRA Division is considering purchasing one or two of these sets in the hopes that members can sign these out for 30 days or so at a time.  Depending on the install and copyright functions, we may not be able to do any of that.  These questions will need to be completely answered before many of us will make this purchase.  I do appreciate copyright protection, but we also need some flexibility for real world conditions. Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: jbark76@... Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 18:10:28 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] MRR DVD collection   I got an email from Model Railroader today and they are offering a DVD set including all magazines from 1934-2009 (for $200). This would be great for researching old models. I have lots of old magazines, but not 900 of them. I wonder if (Railroad) Model Craftsman will do the same. -Jeff Barker-

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16755	From: cwrailman	Date: 6/9/2011
Subject: Re: Dens Hobby Shop New Central Valley kits arrived today

Kent, Yea, that might be interesting to do a few of. It is time consuming but you never know. You might want to send me an email because if I have the same kit I can just do it out of my collection. My personal collection includes many of the old wood kits and a few of the Walthers passenger car kits and some JC models passenger car kits but I have none of the early plastic. It would be nice to include a few of those to make the shop "real". Maybe some early loco kits. Now back to the shops, Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "nvrr49" <nvrr49@...> wrote: > > So can we all contribute? Send you a picture of the end of the box and a picture of the box contents. > > Kent in KC > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "cwrailman" <cwrailman@> wrote: > > > > Got a shippment of Central Valley kits in today and they are now on display in the store. > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/files/Dens%20Hobby%20Shop/ > > > > Denny > > Janitor in Training > > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16756	From: John H	Date: 6/9/2011
Subject: Re: MRR DVD collection

I am very respectful of copyrights and all, but if I spend $200 on a cd I will copy it to my computer(s), all of them. In fact, before everything started coming on cd's, the rule was to copy all software for your own protection in case the floppy disks poop out on you (which, although infrequently CAN happen with cd's, as my full price, very legal MS Office 2003 did). Now that does not mean that will give it or print outs of articles to others. I twice used items from MR in the GB&W Historical Society Newsletter, but only after obtaining permission from MR to do so (even though I authored one of them). But for me personally, I paid the price and I will use it as I need. So far as lending it out to members of an organization, that is something that may require the permission of the publisher. John Hagen --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> wrote: > > > Yes, most of us has seen this and I am actually afraid to show that to my wife, because I am absolutely sure she would purchase it and make me throw away or sell my whole collection which is complete from 1945 on to present day and quite a few back to 1938 or so. > Aside from that part, there are some concerns. Can the pages be printed full size so that the drawing can be used in proper scale? Can this DVD be used on more than one system, for example if I install it on my old HP Desktop and then purchase a new Lenovo laptop, can I move it or for that matter, use it from both systems? There is another aside question. Our NMRA Division is considering purchasing one or two of these sets in the hopes that members can sign these out for 30 days or so at a time. Depending on the install and copyright functions, we may not be able to do any of that. These questions will need to be completely answered before many of us will make this purchase. I do appreciate copyright protection, but we also need some flexibility for real world conditions. > Regards, > Vic Bitleris > Raleigh, NC > > > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > From: jbark76@... > Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 18:10:28 +0000 > Subject: [vintageHO] MRR DVD collection > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I got an email from Model Railroader today and they are offering a DVD set including all magazines from 1934-2009 (for $200). This would be great for researching old models. I have lots of old magazines, but not 900 of them. I wonder if (Railroad) Model Craftsman will do the same. -Jeff Barker- >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16757	From: cwrailman	Date: 6/9/2011
Subject: Re: MRR DVD collection

The issue of copyright with MR is interesting because when I was on a tour of their offices during the NMRA convention in 1985 I asked about renewal of the copyright of old articles and was sleepishly told that they had not followed up on those renewals. So, if that is true then they no longer own those articles. They need to show that they renewed the copyright on each article with the appropriate renewal number and cannot do so with a blanket statement of copyright. This issue has been discussed on several other boards, such as the FineScaleMiniatures board, in the past. That is the same as the books the NMRA has printed and is issuing. Logging, Lumber, and Droege's two books on Freight and Passenger trains. All nice high quality books by the way. Those book were all written in the early 1900's and the copyright was not renewed on those books. They fell into the public domain and anybody could republish them as the NMRA did. In fact copies of the original versions of those books, in PDF format, can be downloaded free of charge from Google Books. You can tell which books can be downloaded free of charge because it will indicate that a "Read" version is available. Others just give you a "Preview" or less. So the question is if MR cannot prove that they renewed the copyright then the articles fall into the public domain and they are up for grabs to anyone who wants to scan them or digitize them into a format that can be shared like what Google is doing. Now back to the shops, Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "John H" <sprinthag@...> wrote: > > I am very respectful of copyrights and all, but if I spend $200 on a cd I will copy it to my computer(s), all of them. In fact, before everything started coming on cd's, the rule was to copy all software for your own protection in case the floppy disks poop out on you (which, although infrequently CAN happen with cd's, as my full price, very legal MS Office 2003 did). > > Now that does not mean that will give it or print outs of articles to others. I twice used items from MR in the GB&W Historical Society Newsletter, but only after obtaining permission from MR to do so (even though I authored one of them). But for me personally, I paid the price and I will use it as I need. > > So far as lending it out to members of an organization, that is something that may require the permission of the publisher. > > John Hagen > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@> wrote: > > > > > > Yes, most of us has seen this and I am actually afraid to show that to my wife, because I am absolutely sure she would purchase it and make me throw away or sell my whole collection which is complete from 1945 on to present day and quite a few back to 1938 or so. > > Aside from that part, there are some concerns. Can the pages be printed full size so that the drawing can be used in proper scale? Can this DVD be used on more than one system, for example if I install it on my old HP Desktop and then purchase a new Lenovo laptop, can I move it or for that matter, use it from both systems? There is another aside question. Our NMRA Division is considering purchasing one or two of these sets in the hopes that members can sign these out for 30 days or so at a time. Depending on the install and copyright functions, we may not be able to do any of that. These questions will need to be completely answered before many of us will make this purchase. I do appreciate copyright protection, but we also need some flexibility for real world conditions. > > Regards, > > Vic Bitleris > > Raleigh, NC > > > > > > > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > From: jbark76@ > > Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 18:10:28 +0000 > > Subject: [vintageHO] MRR DVD collection > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I got an email from Model Railroader today and they are offering a DVD set including all magazines from 1934-2009 (for $200). This would be great for researching old models. I have lots of old magazines, but not 900 of them. I wonder if (Railroad) Model Craftsman will do the same. -Jeff Barker- > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16758	From: olharoldatfrl@aol.com	Date: 6/9/2011
Subject: Re: Dens Hobby Shop

Hey Cawboy:   Went to your Yahoo site.  Tried to access the "what ever you call it" but could not.  Are you really selling your Central Valley collection? Or is this somebody else's collection?   Time for some breakfast.  I's hungry.   O.H.     In a message dated 6/8/2011 4:30:38 P.M. Central Daylight Time, cwrailman@... writes:   Now give it a try. I forgot that Yahoo gives a random address to any "file" so you cannot like to anything in the files section because that address changes periodically. I moved the images into the photo section where I believe they reamin at a constant address. Now back to my nap. Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Railroad Modeler <railroad.modeler@...> wrote: > > > > I see 6 boxes, 4 on the left stack and 2 on the right stack. > > > > When I click any of the boxes I get a 404 error (page not found). > > > > When I go back to the app, I get a save/don’t save/open (read only) dialog, to which I select open (read only). > > > > That takes me back to the xls with the 6 boxes. > > > > I believe that the reason for the 404 is due to the temporary nature of links generated by the software used by Yahoo Groups. If the images are in a group photo folder, perhaps you could use the permalink instead? > > > > Regards, > > > > Ken B > > > > _____ > > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of cwrailman > Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2011 1:35 PM > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [vintageHO] Dens Hobby Shop > > So I was thinking the other day, wouldn't it be great if we could go back in time to one of those old hobby shops that had shelves filled with craftsman kits. We could point to one, the proprietor would pull it off the shelf and let us open it on the counter top so we could look at all the goodies inside. > > Go to the files section and click on Dens Hobby Shop. Click on the Dens Virtual Hobby Shop XLS file and what you should see is the beginning of a wall of kits. Pick one, click on it and I'll open it up for you. When your done, hit your back button and if it prompts you to Save please say NO!! > > Sombody please let me know if this does work!! > > I wish I had some puter skills to lay this out like a virtual hobby shop so the kits would open on a display case counter and they would seem to be on a shelf. If anyone has such skills I think this would be a much appreciated program to develop. > > Anyway it is an idea. > > Now back to the shops, > > Denny > Janitor in Training > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16759	From: Gerold Eckl	Date: 6/9/2011
Subject: Re: MRR DVD collection

On 6/9/2011 8:18 PM, Victor Bitleris wrote:   Yes, most of us has seen this and I am actually afraid to show that to my wife, because I am absolutely sure she would purchase it and make me throw away or sell my whole collection which is complete from 1945 on to present day and quite a few back to 1938 or so. Victor, and all... have a similar collection which I purchased over the last decade... first when I got the news about this DVD ( and the TRAINS DVD) I was shocked that I had spent a small fortune hunting down all those issues in paper, and now they would be accessible for a (comparative) bargain price. However, after sleeping over it, I found that I am better off with my stacks of magazines. I usually read or at least thumb through one each evening, and have a good sleep afterwards.... how could I do this with a DVD? We all spend enough or too uch time in front of the screen ... I have absolutely no desire to read 900 issues MR this way. However, this may be a valuable research tool ... IF there is an index that makes sense , and the user may track down not only individual articles but also single pictures etc. My two Cents Gerold Vienna Austria

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16760	From: cwrailman	Date: 6/9/2011
Subject: Re: Dens Hobby Shop

Ole Harold, You need to clean the critters out of that coal fired puter of yours and try again. Den's Virtual Hobby Shop is just showing those kits. No, they are NOT for sale. Just a lookie look. Like what I did when the shops had these kits in stock but I had no money. I have posted a request to anybody willing to trade Ambroid kits for some Walthers cars but that is a different issue. Now who left the back door open and let this guy in?? But now that he is here, some time ago I posted some images of Ole Harold's LaBelle kit bashing work. You can see it at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/album/1803827382/pic/list If you have any questions about that project you can shoot them in his direction. I think you need to post some pictures of those Walthers cars you built as well as a few of those cars you rebuilt from Brads collection. Now back to my after lunch nap. Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, olharoldatfrl@... wrote: > > Hey Cawboy: > > Went to your Yahoo site. Tried to access the "what ever you call it" but > could not. Are you really selling your Central Valley collection? > Or is this somebody else's collection? > > Time for some breakfast. I's hungry. > > O.H. > > > > In a message dated 6/8/2011 4:30:38 P.M. Central Daylight Time, > cwrailman@... writes: > > > > > Now give it a try. I forgot that Yahoo gives a random address to any "file" > so you cannot like to anything in the files section because that address > changes periodically. I moved the images into the photo section where I > believe they reamin at a constant address. > > Now back to my nap. > > Denny > Janitor in Training > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops > > --- In _vintageHO@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com) , > Railroad Modeler <railroad.modeler@> wrote: > > > > > > > > I see 6 boxes, 4 on the left stack and 2 on the right stack. > > > > > > > > When I click any of the boxes I get a 404 error (page not found). > > > > > > > > When I go back to the app, I get a save/don’t save/open (read only) > dialog, to which I select open (read only). > > > > > > > > That takes me back to the xls with the 6 boxes. > > > > > > > > I believe that the reason for the 404 is due to the temporary nature of > links generated by the software used by Yahoo Groups. If the images are in > a group photo folder, perhaps you could use the permalink instead? > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > Ken B > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > From: _vintageHO@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com) > [mailto:_vintageHO@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com) ] On > Behalf Of cwrailman > > Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2011 1:35 PM > > To: _vintageHO@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com) > > Subject: [vintageHO] Dens Hobby Shop > > > > So I was thinking the other day, wouldn't it be great if we could go > back in time to one of those old hobby shops that had shelves filled with > craftsman kits. We could point to one, the proprietor would pull it off the > shelf and let us open it on the counter top so we could look at all the > goodies inside. > > > > Go to the files section and click on Dens Hobby Shop. Click on the Dens > Virtual Hobby Shop XLS file and what you should see is the beginning of a > wall of kits. Pick one, click on it and I'll open it up for you. When your > done, hit your back button and if it prompts you to Save please say NO!! > > > > Sombody please let me know if this does work!! > > > > I wish I had some puter skills to lay this out like a virtual hobby shop > so the kits would open on a display case counter and they would seem to be > on a shelf. If anyone has such skills I think this would be a much > appreciated program to develop. > > > > Anyway it is an idea. > > > > Now back to the shops, > > > > Denny > > Janitor in Training > > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16761	From: John H	Date: 6/9/2011
Subject: Re: MRR DVD collection

However, works published after January 1, 1978 are copyrighted for 95 years (or 120 years after the authors death, whichever is shortest). I am having difficulty finding any reference to items published before 01/01/1978 as I am assuming that such articles are already past the copyright time. Either way, it would be the proper thing to do to ask permission. In my dealings with Kalmbach I have found them very willing to allow publication of the MR articles, only asking that the item not be altered and for proper credit. Regards the matter of being able to print the item at full size, it depends on the size of your printer. In other words, it should be possible to print a normal MR magazine page full size using most standard US printers. Plus inkjets that can handle 13 X 19 paper and print up to 11 X 17 which will allow printing a two page spread are available at quite reasonable prices these days. I only paid something around $200 for a wide format HP a year or so ago and it makes very high quality prints. John Hagen --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "cwrailman" <cwrailman@...> wrote: > > The issue of copyright with MR is interesting because when I was on a tour of their offices during the NMRA convention in 1985 I asked about renewal of the copyright of old articles and was sleepishly told that they had not followed up on those renewals. So, if that is true then they no longer own those articles. They need to show that they renewed the copyright on each article with the appropriate renewal number and cannot do so with a blanket statement of copyright. This issue has been discussed on several other boards, such as the FineScaleMiniatures board, in the past. > > That is the same as the books the NMRA has printed and is issuing. Logging, Lumber, and Droege's two books on Freight and Passenger trains. All nice high quality books by the way. Those book were all written in the early 1900's and the copyright was not renewed on those books. They fell into the public domain and anybody could republish them as the NMRA did. In fact copies of the original versions of those books, in PDF format, can be downloaded free of charge from Google Books. You can tell which books can be downloaded free of charge because it will indicate that a "Read" version is available. Others just give you a "Preview" or less. > > So the question is if MR cannot prove that they renewed the copyright then the articles fall into the public domain and they are up for grabs to anyone who wants to scan them or digitize them into a format that can be shared like what Google is doing. > > Now back to the shops, > > Denny > Janitor in Training > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "John H" <sprinthag@> wrote: > > > > I am very respectful of copyrights and all, but if I spend $200 on a cd I will copy it to my computer(s), all of them. In fact, before everything started coming on cd's, the rule was to copy all software for your own protection in case the floppy disks poop out on you (which, although infrequently CAN happen with cd's, as my full price, very legal MS Office 2003 did). > > > > Now that does not mean that will give it or print outs of articles to others. I twice used items from MR in the GB&W Historical Society Newsletter, but only after obtaining permission from MR to do so (even though I authored one of them). But for me personally, I paid the price and I will use it as I need. > > > > So far as lending it out to members of an organization, that is something that may require the permission of the publisher. > > > > John Hagen > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Yes, most of us has seen this and I am actually afraid to show that to my wife, because I am absolutely sure she would purchase it and make me throw away or sell my whole collection which is complete from 1945 on to present day and quite a few back to 1938 or so. > > > Aside from that part, there are some concerns. Can the pages be printed full size so that the drawing can be used in proper scale? Can this DVD be used on more than one system, for example if I install it on my old HP Desktop and then purchase a new Lenovo laptop, can I move it or for that matter, use it from both systems? There is another aside question. Our NMRA Division is considering purchasing one or two of these sets in the hopes that members can sign these out for 30 days or so at a time. Depending on the install and copyright functions, we may not be able to do any of that. These questions will need to be completely answered before many of us will make this purchase. I do appreciate copyright protection, but we also need some flexibility for real world conditions. > > > Regards, > > > Vic Bitleris > > > Raleigh, NC > > > > > > > > > > > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > > From: jbark76@ > > > Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 18:10:28 +0000 > > > Subject: [vintageHO] MRR DVD collection > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I got an email from Model Railroader today and they are offering a DVD set including all magazines from 1934-2009 (for $200). This would be great for researching old models. I have lots of old magazines, but not 900 of them. I wonder if (Railroad) Model Craftsman will do the same. -Jeff Barker- > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16762	From: John H	Date: 6/9/2011
Subject: Re: MRR DVD collection

Aaachh......! That first line should read, "However, works FIRST published after January 1, 1978 are copyrighted for 95 years (or 120 years after the authors death, whichever is shortest)." The way its written indicates (to me at least) that it does not matter when it was written (unless the author died over 12o years ago) but when it was first published. This is all from the US Governments copyright site. http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap3.html John Hagen --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "John H" <sprinthag@...> wrote: > > However, works published after January 1, 1978 are copyrighted for 95 years (or 120 years after the authors death, whichever is shortest). I am having difficulty finding any reference to items published before 01/01/1978 as I am assuming that such articles are already past the copyright time.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16763	From: Mike Sloane	Date: 6/9/2011
Subject: Re: MRR DVD collection

That would be a wonderful thing to have, assuming that it is indexed in a way that would make it easy to fine articles by subject/author/etc. $200 is a LOT of money for a single DVD, and I wonder how they are going to cram 900 issues of the magazine into one DVD. I suspect that may end up being a "Father's Day" gift for some guys whose wives/children don't know what else (besides neckties and cordless drills) to give Good Old Dad. :-) Mike On 6/9/2011 2:10 PM, jbark76 wrote: > I got an email from Model Railroader today and they are offering a DVD > set including all magazines from 1934-2009 (for $200). This would be > great for researching old models. I have lots of old magazines, but not > 900 of them. I wonder if (Railroad) Model Craftsman will do the same. > -Jeff Barker-

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16764	From: jbark76	Date: 6/9/2011
Subject: Re: MRR DVD collection

It looks like 2 DVDs and they claim a fully searchable index by issue, keyword, title, contributer, etc. I too like the magazines, but they are taking up a lot of room and I often have to scan them to size drawings or make copies to put in with the parts that I'm supposed to put together someday. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Mike Sloane <mikesloane@...> wrote: > > That would be a wonderful thing to have, assuming that it is indexed in > a way that would make it easy to fine articles by subject/author/etc. > > $200 is a LOT of money for a single DVD, and I wonder how they are going > to cram 900 issues of the magazine into one DVD. I suspect that may end > up being a "Father's Day" gift for some guys whose wives/children don't > know what else (besides neckties and cordless drills) to give Good Old > Dad. :-) > > Mike > > On 6/9/2011 2:10 PM, jbark76 wrote: > > I got an email from Model Railroader today and they are offering a DVD > > set including all magazines from 1934-2009 (for $200). This would be > > great for researching old models. I have lots of old magazines, but not > > 900 of them. I wonder if (Railroad) Model Craftsman will do the same. > > -Jeff Barker- >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16765	From: jbark76	Date: 6/9/2011
Subject: Re: MRR DVD collection

It will have to be a Christmas gift as it will arrive in mid December. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Mike Sloane <mikesloane@...> wrote: > > That would be a wonderful thing to have, assuming that it is indexed in > a way that would make it easy to fine articles by subject/author/etc. > > $200 is a LOT of money for a single DVD, and I wonder how they are going > to cram 900 issues of the magazine into one DVD. I suspect that may end > up being a "Father's Day" gift for some guys whose wives/children don't > know what else (besides neckties and cordless drills) to give Good Old > Dad. :-) > > Mike > > On 6/9/2011 2:10 PM, jbark76 wrote: > > I got an email from Model Railroader today and they are offering a DVD > > set including all magazines from 1934-2009 (for $200). This would be > > great for researching old models. I have lots of old magazines, but not > > 900 of them. I wonder if (Railroad) Model Craftsman will do the same. > > -Jeff Barker- >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16766	From: John H	Date: 6/9/2011
Subject: Re: MRR DVD collection

Fathers day, Christmas, heck, I've even got a birthday in between there. Now all I need is someone to convince my wife/ofspring to get it for me. I'll give out her email to anyone that's willing. John Hagen --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jbark76" <jbark76@...> wrote: > > It will have to be a Christmas gift as it will arrive in mid December. > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Mike Sloane <mikesloane@> wrote: > > > > That would be a wonderful thing to have, assuming that it is indexed in > > a way that would make it easy to fine articles by subject/author/etc. > > > > $200 is a LOT of money for a single DVD, and I wonder how they are going > > to cram 900 issues of the magazine into one DVD. I suspect that may end > > up being a "Father's Day" gift for some guys whose wives/children don't > > know what else (besides neckties and cordless drills) to give Good Old > > Dad. :-)

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16767	From: corlissbs@aol.com	Date: 6/9/2011
Subject: Re: MRR DVD collection

I wonder if the DVD pages will have the ads.  They are great to look at.   Brad Smith

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16768	From: John H	Date: 6/9/2011
Subject: Re: MRR DVD collection

Brad, I'm pretty certain what will be on the cd is complete magazines just as they were originally published. I believe it is a big enough project to put them all on the cd(s) without re-editing them. John Hagen --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, corlissbs@... wrote: > > I wonder if the DVD pages will have the ads. They are great to look at. > > Brad Smith >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16769	From: Charles	Date: 6/9/2011
Subject: Re: MRR DVD collection

I'm sure they will be the complete pages including front and back covers. That's how it's usually done. (It would actually take a huge amount of extra work to NOT have everything on the pages.) I have quite a few issues including from the WWII years. They had to use a very low grade paper for awhile that turned rather brown. It's interesting to read the comments apologizing for that and it being part of the war effort. A lot of manufacturer's ads for that period are also extra interesting. The DVD set is a really good opportunity to delve into not only the model railroading items, but also the tone of things in different periods. For example, I think some reviews for some period used phrases like something is "really choice". Chuck Kinzer --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, corlissbs@... wrote: > > I wonder if the DVD pages will have the ads. They are great to look at. > > Brad Smith >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16770	From: John Barlow	Date: 6/9/2011
Subject: Re: Dens Hobby Shop New Central Valley kits arrived today

Folks,   Where is this hobby shop on line? I am not finding it.   John (jdenver4150@...)   --- On Thu, 6/9/11, cwrailman <cwrailman@...> wrote: From: cwrailman <cwrailman@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Dens Hobby Shop New Central Valley kits arrived today To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, June 9, 2011, 12:22 PM   Kent, Yea, that might be interesting to do a few of. It is time consuming but you never know. You might want to send me an email because if I have the same kit I can just do it out of my collection. My personal collection includes many of the old wood kits and a few of the Walthers passenger car kits and some JC models passenger car kits but I have none of the early plastic. It would be nice to include a few of those to make the shop "real". Maybe some early loco kits. Now back to the shops, Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "nvrr49" <nvrr49@...> wrote: > > So can we all contribute? Send you a picture of the end of the box and a picture of the box contents. > > Kent in KC > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "cwrailman" <cwrailman@> wrote: > > > > Got a shippment of Central Valley kits in today and they are now on display in the store. > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/files/Dens%20Hobby%20Shop/ > > > > Denny > > Janitor in Training > > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16771	From: cwrailman	Date: 6/9/2011
Subject: Re: Dens Hobby Shop New Central Valley kits arrived today

John,   You might want to go and find out why it exists.  It was originally mentioned here:   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/message/16741   It's located here:   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageH O /files/Dens%20Hobby%20Shop/   Have a nice visit.   Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, John Barlow <jdenver4150@...> wrote: > > Folks, >   > Where is this hobby shop on line? I am not finding it. >   > John (jdenver4150@...) >   > > --- On Thu, 6/9/11, cwrailman cwrailman@... wrote: > > > From: cwrailman cwrailman@... > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Dens Hobby Shop New Central Valley kits arrived today > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Date: Thursday, June 9, 2011, 12:22 PM > > >   > > > > Kent, > > Yea, that might be interesting to do a few of. It is time consuming but you never know. You might want to send me an email because if I have the same kit I can just do it out of my collection. My personal collection includes many of the old wood kits and a few of the Walthers passenger car kits and some JC models passenger car kits but I have none of the early plastic. It would be nice to include a few of those to make the shop "real". Maybe some early loco kits. > > Now back to the shops, > > Denny > Janitor in Training > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "nvrr49" nvrr49@ wrote: > > > > So can we all contribute? Send you a picture of the end of the box and a picture of the box contents. > > > > Kent in KC > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "cwrailman" <cwrailman@> wrote: > > > > > > Got a shippment of Central Valley kits in today and they are now on display in the store. > > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/files/Dens%20Hobby%20Shop/ > > > > > > Denny > > > Janitor in Training > > > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16772	From: 23weldon	Date: 6/9/2011
Subject: Re: Dens Hobby Shop

Den - The Excel file lost the data.  All that seems to be left is the cell formatting. Could be the file size with the data was too big for Yahoo. How about telling us more about what you want each cell to show? My thought would be more along the lines of minimum data and a link to a web page with  .jpg illustrations of instructions, finished models, the box, and contents.  Also add pics of built models showing possible variations or unique layout or diorama scenes and similar real world prototypes. Keep the resolution low enough to meet the "Fair Use" intent of copyrights and not overload the web page host. There are several ebay sellers who are having good luck selling kits by putting a large number of illustrations such as I describe above in their auction listings. Another interesting enterprise of sorts would be to develop a wiki type website with line items devoted to individual kits and open to info and picture contributions from members who actually own and/or have built the kit.  This is the kind of project that would certainly fill the personal schedule of any one individual and would probably need to have extra help of several moderators once it got going.  Maybe the world of craftsman kit builders already has something like this going.  But to me the most interesting part of such a project would be a focus on what could be done with small and simple structure kits rather than the elaborate (and expensive) kits.  I'm thinking of the kinds of things some of the old timers did with what was available 40-50 years ago as well as some of the little lowbuck laser kits beginning to show up on the hobby market in the last few years. Ed Weldon

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16773	From: cwrailman	Date: 6/9/2011
Subject: Re: Dens Hobby Shop

I just tried it and it comes up. I had another person try it and they said it came up so I am not sure what problem you are having. If you do not have Excel it might be an issue but I am not sure. The Excel file itself is not large about 1100kb as I recall. I like your idea of including photo's of built models like a catalog of some sort. I also agree with what you say about the rather low buck kits. While I am fortunite to have some of the high buck kits I get as much and sometime more enjoyment out of building kits from Alexander, Timberline, Model Hobbies, Classic Miniatures, Wayfreight, and Campbell just to name a few. A lot of what you say about the wiki etc is beyond my knowledge but sounds like you are much deeper into it than I. Yes, it could end up being a time consuming project but would be worth it is many people contributed. If you know anybody who might be interested in such a project I can provide them with many of the photo's and I know others would contribute as well. Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "23weldon" <23.weldon@...> wrote: > > Den - The Excel file lost the data. All that seems to be left is the cell formatting. > Could be the file size with the data was too big for Yahoo. > How about telling us more about what you want each cell to show? > My thought would be more along the lines of minimum data and a link to a web page with .jpg illustrations of instructions, finished models, the box, and contents. Also add pics of built models showing possible variations or unique layout or diorama scenes and similar real world prototypes. Keep the resolution low enough to meet the "Fair Use" intent of copyrights and not overload the web page host. > There are several ebay sellers who are having good luck selling kits by putting a large number of illustrations such as I describe above in their auction listings. > Another interesting enterprise of sorts would be to develop a wiki type website with line items devoted to individual kits and open to info and picture contributions from members who actually own and/or have built the kit. This is the kind of project that would certainly fill the personal schedule of any one individual and would probably need to have extra help of several moderators once it got going. > Maybe the world of craftsman kit builders already has something like this going. But to me the most interesting part of such a project would be a focus on what could be done with small and simple structure kits rather than the elaborate (and expensive) kits. I'm thinking of the kinds of things some of the old timers did with what was available 40-50 years ago as well as some of the little lowbuck laser kits beginning to show up on the hobby market in the last few years. > Ed Weldon >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16774	From: Ed	Date: 6/9/2011
Subject: Re: Dens Hobby Shop

Thanks, Denny. Maybe my Excel 2000 is too old to read something in your file. No matter as long as others can see it. I don't know all that much about Wikipedia and its imitators. It operates on the basis of listing many subjects that can be edited by anyone; but have a system of moderation. It could be adapted to descriptions of a wide variety of kit types or strictly limited. A hundred or two pages could be reached through a simple index. More would require a good search function. I've gotta believe someone else in some hobby area has already done something like this. But for sure it is a big project that could get in the way of model building. Unless you stuck to just one or two specific structures. Which is something a lot of guys already do on their own sites. Still, how to do that when today's search sites are so strongly tied to suppliers rather than customers? Maybe there is a modest business model here enough to motivate someone. The key would be how to bring advertisers who would list what they have for sale on the same page as the photo/text contributions of model builders of that model. I'm just sort of rattling here. Not sure that Vintage HO folks are all that interested. Just a simple (simple?) list of all HO structure kits made before (pick a date) by manufacturer and name would be neat. Is that in our own files section? Maybe I better go look. Ed Weldon (laughing at myself; the best kind of humor) --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "cwrailman" <cwrailman@...> wrote: > > I just tried it and it comes up. I had another person try it and they said it came up so I am not sure what problem you are having. If you do not have Excel it might be an issue but I am not sure. The Excel file itself is not large about 1100kb as I recall.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16775	From: Railroad Modeler	Date: 6/9/2011
Subject: Re: Dens Hobby Shop

Harold,   That’s some fine work! I would definitely enjoy seeing some more, if you don’t mind going to the trouble of uploading the pictures.   Regards,   Ken B   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of cwrailman Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2011 1:19 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Dens Hobby Shop  Ole Harold, >snip< …some time ago I posted some images of Ole Harold's LaBelle kit bashing work. You can see it at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/album/1803827382/pic/list If you have any questions about that project you can shoot them in his direction. I think you need to post some pictures of those Walthers cars you built as well as a few of those cars you rebuilt from Brads collection. >snip<

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16776	From: dennyanspach	Date: 6/10/2011
Subject: Re: MRR DVD collection

Vic Bitleris' comments are pretty much right on.  The CD/DVD  technology is nearing the end, and no one knows DVDs'  actual archival value (how long they will in fact last).  Apple's newest laptop will no longer handle DVDs or CDs, and their new operating system LION will not be available on disc of any kind.  Apple was among the first to abandon the old 5" disks, the first to abandon the 3" disks, and from what I read, there is a general thought that these small salvos presage the eventual abandonment of the CD/DVD technology. Many of those in the aviation and historic ships hobbies  are currently dealing with expensive optical disks covering the Nat Air & Space, and Mystic Seaport Museums' collections, a once popular and relatively recent technology that has disappeared like the snow in the midday sun. That said,  the DVD's are better than nothing, and the price is not unreasonable. I have every single issue of MR and RMC -the latter back through its Model Craftsman days.  On occasion, I will spend a number of delightful evenings perusing old issues, one by one. Can I do this with the DVD with the same comfort I have currently relaxing in my easy chair holding nothing but the printed page and perhaps a libation?   However,  I would like nothing better than to gain the space where they all these volumes currently reside, and.....? RMC operates under a different business model than MR, and I am currently doubtful that a DVD will likely be forthcoming from them. Denny Denny S.  Anspach MD Sacramento

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16777	From: Mike Sloane	Date: 6/10/2011
Subject: Re: MRR DVD collection

That's all well and good for those people who live in areas where there is reliable and economical broadband wired/wireless available. But if you are out in the 'burbs or in a rural area, depending on "the cloud" for all of your computing needs is just a distant dream. I feel lucky to have just DSL, much less true broadband. Most of Europe/UK is in much better shape than the USA in that regard. Mike On 6/10/2011 2:06 PM, dennyanspach wrote: > Vic Bitleris' comments are pretty much right on. The CD/DVD technology > is nearing the end, and no one knows DVDs' actual archival value (how > long they will in fact last). Apple's newest laptop will no longer > handle DVDs or CDs, and their new operating system LION will not be > available on disc of any kind. Apple was among the first to abandon the > old 5" disks, the first to abandon the 3" disks, and from what I read, > there is a general thought that these small salvos presage the eventual > abandonment of the CD/DVD technology.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16778	From: Glenn	Date: 6/10/2011
Subject: Re: MRR DVD collection

I definitely agree—I have the complete set, in cardboard files—takes  up 16 ft of shelf space--   it is interesting to dig out a year’s set and see what “state-of-the-art” was then--   From: dennyanspach Sent: Friday, June 10, 2011 11:06 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Re: MRR DVD collection   Vic Bitleris' comments are pretty much right on.  The CD/DVD  technology is nearing the end, and no one knows DVDs'  actual archival value (how long they will in fact last).  Apple's newest laptop will no longer handle DVDs or CDs, and their new operating system LION will not be available on disc of any kind.  Apple was among the first to abandon the old 5" disks, the first to abandon the 3" disks, and from what I read, there is a general thought that these small salvos presage the eventual abandonment of the CD/DVD technology.   Many of those in the aviation and historic ships hobbies  are currently dealing with expensive optical disks covering the Nat Air & Space, and Mystic Seaport Museums' collections, a once popular and relatively recent technology that has disappeared like the snow in the midday sun.   That said,  the DVD's are better than nothing, and the price is not unreasonable. I have every single issue of MR and RMC -the latter back through its Model Craftsman days.  On occasion, I will spend a number of delightful evenings perusing old issues, one by one. Can I do this with the DVD with the same comfort I have currently relaxing in my easy chair holding nothing but the printed page and perhaps a libation?    However,  I would like nothing better than to gain the space where they all these volumes currently reside, and.....?   RMC operates under a different business model than MR, and I am currently doubtful that a DVD will likely be forthcoming from them.   Denny   Denny S.  Anspach MD Sacramento

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16779	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 6/11/2011
Subject: CM&StP decals

I have the remainder of a sheet of Chicago, Milwaukee, & St. Paul Railroad decals (lettering only) which I had made for me for the 70' and 80' La Belle cars. Without the word "Railroad" they measure 6 3/4" long. There are enough for 2 complete cars and a part of another (in case you mess up). These are very fragile and the "gold" shade is a bit on the light side, but they show very well. I also have a partial sheet of Microscale Erie number decals which just happen to match the "gold" on the lettering. The latter I was extremely lucky to find that would match the lettering and will include if anyone is interested.. Email me at luvprr@.... If not I will list them on eBay, but I wanted to give you folks first shot at them.   Art W

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16780	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 6/11/2011
Subject: Re: CM&StP decals

By the way, there is no comma after "Milwaukee" on the decals. My error.   Art W   In a message dated 6/11/2011 10:08:11 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, luvprr@... writes: I have the remainder of a sheet of Chicago, Milwaukee, & St. Paul Railroad decals (lettering only) which I had made for me for the 70' and 80' La Belle cars. Without the word "Railroad" they measure 6 3/4" long. There are enough for 2 complete cars and a part of another (in case you mess up). These are very fragile and the "gold" shade is a bit on the light side, but they show very well. I also have a partial sheet of Microscale Erie number decals which just happen to match the "gold" on the lettering. The latter I was extremely lucky to find that would match the lettering and will include if anyone is interested.. Email me at luvprr@.... If not I will list them on eBay, but I wanted to give you folks first shot at them.   Art W

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16781	From: mark_h_charles	Date: 6/11/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers gas electrics

In the 1920s and 1930s, both Brill and Electromotive Corp built self-propelled railcars for many railroads. Like steam locomotives, each railroad used custom designs, though each builders products used some common elements. Several Sperry railcars were obtained second-hand in the 1960s from the Lehigh Valley RR. LV had cars from both builders, totaling a dozen or more. The vintage metal Walthers car looks like a Brill unit to me. The recent Bachmann plastic model has an arched side window characteristic of cars built by EMC. Mark Charles --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Douglas" <baddog@...> wrote: > > Does anyone know who were the manufacturers of the prototypes of the Walthers doodlebug

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16782	From: cwrailman	Date: 6/11/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers gas electrics

I am not sure they would have an answer to your question, but there is a group just dedicated to this sort of thing. http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/doodlebugs/?yguid=61385387 Now on to the shops, Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Douglas" <baddog@...> wrote: > > Does anyone know who were the manufacturers of the prototypes of the Walthers doodlebug and Sperry rail inspection car (a converted doodlebug)? What companies ran them? I have a Walthers doodlebug in Great Northern livery, and it bears the same number as the Bachmann GN doodlebug, though they are clearly of different prototypes. > > Thanks, > Doug McKercher >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16783	From: Dana Adams	Date: 6/11/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers gas electrics

We will be listing a large estate collection of brass HO trains auctioned under the ebay seller name a1homefurnishings in the next few days. Please take a look at our list. Please do not reply to this email, as ALL of the trains will be sold on EBAY. Thanks!! From: cwrailman <cwrailman@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, June 11, 2011 11:03:42 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Walthers gas electrics   I am not sure they would have an answer to your question, but there is a group just dedicated to this sort of thing. http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/doodlebugs/?yguid=61385387 Now on to the shops, Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Douglas" <baddog@...> wrote: > > Does anyone know who were the manufacturers of the prototypes of the Walthers doodlebug and Sperry rail inspection car (a converted doodlebug)? What companies ran them? I have a Walthers doodlebug in Great Northern livery, and it bears the same number as the Bachmann GN doodlebug, though they are clearly of different prototypes. > > Thanks, > Doug McKercher >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16784	From: Chris B	Date: 6/11/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers gas electrics

Attachments : crop from MW #31 EMC car.jpg crop from HO seeker walthers5650acnwgaselectric1939.jpg crop from CCR #100 EMC car.jpg crop from CB&Q motor car, engine number 450, engine type EMC.jpg crop from C&NW #9900 EMC powered gas Electric.jpg I'd say it's an EMC powered car, generally related to a number of different C&NW prototypes, and here's why I think so. Here's the dwg/instructions for the Walthers gaselectric from HOSeeker. http://www.hoseeker.net/walthers/walthers5650acnwgaselectric1939.jpg ( I do have four of these kits in various stages of construction, from various eras of mfgr.) FWIW, Walthers provides decals for it as a C&NW car #9905 The motorcar photo index page for C&NW lists over 25 cars, all EMC, many in the 9900 series, but no #9905 Here's the link to that page: http://passcarphotos.info/Indices/DB2.htm Here's the northeast railfan pages for EMC Gas Electrics. http://www.northeast.railfan.net/self_prop1.html http://www.northeast.railfan.net/self_prop2.html and here's the second row, first on the left photo on that page, C&NW #9900 http://digital.denverlibrary.org/u?/p15330coll22,47996 the third and fourth photos are also of C&NW gas electrics, #9907 and #9910 respectively. 9900 and 9907 share a very characteristic element with the Walthers model, the curved roof panel on the front end roof over the cab. #9910 has a different roof design, but is still EMC powered. Brill built cars usually have a characteristically rounded roof, curving down on both sides and ends smoothly, usually more curved in the later decades of mfgr . This is the Northeast railfan Brill railcar page: http://www.northeast.railfan.net/self_prop4.html W&OD #52 was an ex NYC Brill built car: This is the link to the picture also found on the northeast railfan brill page http://abpr.railfan.net/abprphoto.cgi?august09/08-18-09/w+od52m.jpg  W&OD #46 was an EMC-powered gas electric car built by St Louis car co. It also featured the characteristic EMC curved roof feature over the front cab roof. http://donsdepot.donrossgroup.net/dr106.htm http://donsdepot.donrossgroup.net/dr0107/jw0001.jpg Chris B. --- On Sat, 6/11/11, cwrailman <cwrailman@...> wrote: From: cwrailman <cwrailman@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Walthers gas electrics To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, June 11, 2011, 12:03 PM   I am not sure they would have an answer to your question, but there is a group just dedicated to this sort of thing. http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/doodlebugs/?yguid=61385387 Now on to the shops, Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Douglas" <baddog@...> wrote: > > Does anyone know who were the manufacturers of the prototypes of the Walthers doodlebug and Sperry rail inspection car (a converted doodlebug)? What companies ran them? I have a Walthers doodlebug in Great Northern livery, and it bears the same number as the Bachmann GN doodlebug, though they are clearly of different prototypes. > > Thanks, > Doug McKercher

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 16785	From: Chris B	Date: 6/11/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers gas electrics

Douglas, I did assume you meant the older longer metal sided wood floor and roof Walthers model gas electric; I realize now you may have meant the later shorter plastic model.  That model to my eye looks very similar to EMC cars run by the Ma&Pa and other lines; it's also similar to brass models of those cars done by OMI/AJIN and Gem; they're slightly shorter than the Bachmann model, and share the same window number and pattern. I've read in several places that the Bachmann model is deliberately not intended to model a specific prototype car, and I confess I believe that because I've never found an exact match for all of its features in the gaselectric photo pages listed below... But the prototypes were made by several firms besides EMC and Brill, including Mack and Osgood Bradley, St Louis Car Co, and others, and there was a spectacular variety in configurations.  I'm not as familiar with the Sperry cars, but the Sperry page: http://passcarphotos.info/Indices/SRS.htm lists a wide variety of Sperry car sources/makers and car types, perhaps you can find a match there. Chris B. (I only came to seek out all this info as part of trying to model the three gas electrics of the W&OD, and eventually found only one was available already, and that in very pricey W&R brass model of ATS&F M66-67, and the other two will have to be made up from modified brass models of the Suydam Brill car and a Balboa M-180 car, the closest I could get to the W&OD prototypes.) Chris B. --- On Sat, 6/11/11, Chris B <chrisb_acw_rr@...> wrote: From: Chris B <chrisb_acw_rr@...> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Walthers gas electrics [8 Attachments] To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, June 11, 2011, 5:38 PM   I'd say it's an EMC powered car, generally related to a number of different C&NW prototypes, and here's why I think so. Here's the dwg/instructions for the Walthers gaselectric from HOSeeker. http://www.hoseeker.net/walthers/walthers5650acnwgaselectric1939.jpg ( I do have four of these kits in various stages of construction, from various eras of mfgr.) FWIW, Walthers provides decals for it as a C&NW car #9905 The motorcar photo index page for C&NW lists over 25 cars, all EMC, many in the 9900 series, but no #9905 Here's the link to that page: http://passcarphotos.info/Indices/DB2.htm Here's the northeast railfan pages for EMC Gas Electrics. http://www.northeast.railfan.net/self_prop1.html http://www.northeast.railfan.net/self_prop2.html and here's the second row, first on the left photo on that page, C&NW #9900 http://digital.denverlibrary.org/u?/p15330coll22,47996 the third and fourth photos are also of C&NW gas electrics, #9907 and #9910 respectively. 9900 and 9907 share a very characteristic element with the Walthers model, the curved roof panel on the front end roof over the cab. #9910 has a different roof design, but is still EMC powered. Brill built cars usually have a characteristically rounded roof, curving down on both sides and ends smoothly, usually more curved in the later decades of mfgr . This is the Northeast railfan Brill railcar page: http://www.northeast.railfan.net/self_prop4.html W&OD #52 was an ex NYC Brill built car: This is the link to the picture also found on the northeast railfan brill page http://abpr.railfan.net/abprphoto.cgi?august09/08-18-09/w+od52m.jpg  W&OD #46 was an EMC-powered gas electric car built by St Louis car co. It also featured the characteristic EMC curved roof feature over the front cab roof. http://donsdepot.donrossgroup.net/dr106.htm http://donsdepot.donrossgroup.net/dr0107/jw0001.jpg Chris B. --- On Sat, 6/11/11, cwrailman <cwrailman@...> wrote: From: cwrailman <cwrailman@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Walthers gas electrics To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, June 11, 2011, 12:03 PM   I am not sure they would have an answer to your question, but there is a group just dedicated to this sort of thing. http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/doodlebugs/?yguid=61385387 Now on to the shops, Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Douglas" <baddog@...> wrote: > > Does anyone know who were the manufacturers of the prototypes of the Walthers doodlebug and Sperry rail inspection car (a converted doodlebug)? What companies ran them? I have a Walthers doodlebug in Great Northern livery, and it bears the same number as the Bachmann GN doodlebug, though they are clearly of different prototypes. > > Thanks, > Doug McKercher

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16786	From: dennyanspach	Date: 6/12/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers gas electrics

These were modeled after EMC prototypes.  These can be made up into quite attractive and acceptable models, if one is able to ignore that they are manufactured to 1/8" to a foot scale, rather than than the correct and slightly larger HO 3.5mm/foot scale. Denny Denny S.  Anspach MD Sacramento

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16787	From: cwrailman	Date: 6/13/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers gas electrics

Is this true of all the Walthers metal sided passenger cars? Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, dennyanspach <danspach@...> wrote: > > " they are manufactured to 1/8" to a foot scale, rather than than the correct and slightly larger HO 3.5mm/foot scale." > > Denny > > > Denny S. Anspach MD > Sacramento >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16788	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 6/13/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers gas electrics

There are at least two eras of the Walthers Doodlebugs. The first era was built differently, with different sides that lacked rivet detail. The following era has rivets and entirely different sides. I don't know which is more accurate. I have both era's here and can scale check them tomorrow. Interestingly enough, a lot of doodlebugs of the EMC body style do have slightly lower car-body sides when compared to average passenger cars. That was one way of lightening the bodies. Look at the many pics of regular passenger cars behind Doodlebugs and you'll often see the height difference. I just compared some of the kits. The older/oldest yellow box, no rivet C&NW Doodlebug is just a hair lower, about 4-6 scale inches compared to a later orange-blue boxed rivet detail Executive Observation Car. Yellow box has the logo of '15 years of model railroading' on it, with the 241 Erie St address. It is also exactly the same height sides as the later blue/gray striped rivet detailed, rivet detailed C&NW Doodlebug . The blank ends for the later doodlebug seems to be the same as used on the slightly taller Executive car, they seems to be the same ends in fact, anywhere I try to match. The 40-50 years apart front ends of the two Doodlebugs are the same ends, and the same size. The sides are identical lengths and the windows and doors are in the same locations between both era kits. The no-rivet sides have an inner flange on the bottom of the sides while the rivet-detail sides have an inner flange on the top of the sides. So the Doodlebugs have a slightly lower side while they use the same ends as the regular passenger car kits. There were probably 50 different lengths of EMC Doodle bugs assembled over the years for their many customers, some varied by only a few inches. I don't believe that the Walthers Doodlebugs are 1/8 inch scale. They use standard blank ends and have a lower profile roof while being just as wide as any other passenger car I pick-up to check them against. Lower roofs, slightly lower sides, but the same width. They look to be prototypical to any check I put them to. I'd be confident about building and running any of them as an HO scale model. Best to ya, Mike Bauers Milwaukee, Wi On Jun 13, 2011, at 8:42 PM, cwrailman wrote: > Is this true of all the Walthers metal sided passenger cars? > > Denny > Janitor in Training > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, dennyanspach <danspach@...> wrote: >> >> " they are manufactured to 1/8" to a foot scale, rather than than >> the correct and slightly larger HO 3.5mm/foot scale." >> >> Denny

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16789	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 6/13/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers gas electrics

Not per my part to part placement and comparison of other makes of HO scale models. Heights and widths match. One kicker is that the bank ends on the Doodlebugs are the same blank ends of the other Walthers passenger cars. The Doodlebug sides are 4-6 inches lower as well as the lower profiled milled roofs. But that is prototypical of those EMC's. I recall reading that the Walthers Pug line was actually 1/8 scale. But I never confirmed that. I do have some of those here and will eventually check them out. Best to ya, Mike Bauers Milwaukee, Wi On Jun 13, 2011, at 8:42 PM, cwrailman wrote: > Is this true of all the Walthers metal sided passenger cars? > > Denny > Janitor in Training > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, dennyanspach <danspach@...> wrote: >> >> " they are manufactured to 1/8" to a foot scale, rather than than >> the correct and slightly larger HO 3.5mm/foot scale." >> >> Denny

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16790	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 6/14/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers gas electrics

----- Original Message ----- From: "cwrailman" <cwrailman@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, June 13, 2011 8:42 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Walthers gas electrics > Is this true of all the Walthers metal sided passenger cars? > > Denny > Janitor in Training > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, dennyanspach <danspach@...> wrote: >> >> " they are manufactured to 1/8" to a foot scale, rather than than the >> correct and slightly larger HO 3.5mm/foot scale." >> >> Denny >> >> >> Denny S. Anspach MD >> Sacramento >> "Everybody" says that early Walthers cars were 1/8". I have samples of all 4 "phases", from the original pre-war "Crestline" kits through the very last plastic-roofed cars. All compare favorably with each other height wise. The 6600 series cars prior to 1959 DID have a lower roof, but it was just in the roof piece itself, and could be corrected with a new 7800 series (or even plastic) roof. They also compare favorably with JC (both the original card and the silver sides), International, and Varney. I do NOT have any of the "Pug" cars, I cannot speak for them. The ONLY cars I have that possible could be a slightly smaller scale are the Varney Celluloid side streamlines. On the other hand, I have a prewar Megow coach that almost looks like it could be OO. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16791	From: ablecynic	Date: 6/14/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers gas electrics

Don, Thanks for helping stop a old rumor that has little basis in any fact. My sister-in-law used to work for Walthers and I wrote a book for them many years ago and had the chance to visit their facility and look at a lot of the old parts. Some of the lines that Walther's picked up from other failing companies may have had slightly out-of-scale products, but the Walther's were pretty serious modelers and everything they produced was as close to scale as they could make it with the limitations of the era. I have several of the doodlebug kits, including the one based on the articulated M-190 from the AT&SF. It is clearly not the same length as the real M-190 (it was designed to go around 18in radius curves) but the body height is the same as the CNW Doodlebug and the door height is the same as on the other doodlebugs. Because the articulated car is a freelance model, and shorter than the only possible prototype, people seem to have assumed that it is not to scale. This reminds me of the old saw about the AHC/New One die cast 2-8-2 being "larger than HO Scale." I own one and compared it with the prototype drawings in the MR Cyclopedia and the RMC article on the prototype and other than it being too long (to accommodate the driver flanges) and having a cab that sits too tall, the locomotive is dead on for HO scale. There is no substitute for a scale ruler. The human eye is not calibrated. Thanks for your post. Matt > > "Everybody" says that early Walthers cars were 1/8". I have samples of all 4 "phases", from the original pre-war "Crestline" kits through the very last plastic-roofed cars. All compare favorably with each other height wise. > The 6600 series cars prior to 1959 DID have a lower roof, but it was just in the roof piece itself, and could be corrected with a new 7800 series (or even plastic) roof. They also compare favorably with JC (both the original card and the silver sides), International, and Varney. > > I do NOT have any of the "Pug" cars, I cannot speak for them. > > The ONLY cars I have that possible could be a slightly smaller scale are the Varney Celluloid side streamlines. > > On the other hand, I have a prewar Megow coach that almost looks like it could be OO. > > Don > > Don Dellmann > don.dellmann@... > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ > http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction > Owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16792	From: cwrailman	Date: 6/14/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Passenger Cars

Guys, This is the kind of conversation I joined this board to see. I appreciate hearing from those who have had intimate experience with these old craftsman kits. This is a great history lesson. Has anybody put together a history of the old Walthers passenger cars like the one in the files section about Ambroid? I would find that very interesting. Besides the color of the box, how can I determine the age of a Walthers passenger car kit? What are the clues. It appears I have four different Walthers passenger car box types. The oldest is yellow with Walthers written in script on the end. The next is white with some stripes and Walthers is printed on the end, the third is a blue box with a label attached to the end and the forth is an orange box with a label on the end. What dates do these colors represent? I have the revised second edition copy of the Walthers Passenger Car Plan book which seems to be dated 1973. I find this great for the interior layouts and seeing what cars are suited for which railroads. I have seriously thought of selling off my small collection of 9 Walthers passenger cars and 4 JC Models passenger cars. Recently I asked if anybody wanted to trade for some Ambroid passenger car kits but got no reply. However after reading this, I might consider actually building a few of those kits or at least one of the private cars, though I have no idea where I will operate them as they do not fit my short logging line which is serviced by a series of wood sided LaBelle passenger cars. Thanks for keeping the info flowing guys. Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "ablecynic" <mattjcoleman@...> wrote: > > Don, > > Thanks for helping stop a old rumor that has little basis in any fact. My sister-in-law used to work for Walthers and I wrote a book for them many years ago and had the chance to visit their facility and look at a lot of the old parts. Some of the lines that Walther's picked up from other failing companies may have had slightly out-of-scale products, but the Walther's were pretty serious modelers and everything they produced was as close to scale as they could make it with the limitations of the era. > > I have several of the doodlebug kits, including the one based on the articulated M-190 from the AT&SF. It is clearly not the same length as the real M-190 (it was designed to go around 18in radius curves) but the body height is the same as the CNW Doodlebug and the door height is the same as on the other doodlebugs. > > Because the articulated car is a freelance model, and shorter than the only possible prototype, people seem to have assumed that it is not to scale. > > This reminds me of the old saw about the AHC/New One die cast 2-8-2 being "larger than HO Scale." I own one and compared it with the prototype drawings in the MR Cyclopedia and the RMC article on the prototype and other than it being too long (to accommodate the driver flanges) and having a cab that sits too tall, the locomotive is dead on for HO scale. > > There is no substitute for a scale ruler. The human eye is not calibrated. > > Thanks for your post. > > Matt > > > > > "Everybody" says that early Walthers cars were 1/8". I have samples of all 4 "phases", from the original pre-war "Crestline" kits through the very last plastic-roofed cars. All compare favorably with each other height wise. > > The 6600 series cars prior to 1959 DID have a lower roof, but it was just in the roof piece itself, and could be corrected with a new 7800 series (or even plastic) roof. They also compare favorably with JC (both the original card and the silver sides), International, and Varney. > > > > I do NOT have any of the "Pug" cars, I cannot speak for them. > > > > The ONLY cars I have that possible could be a slightly smaller scale are the Varney Celluloid side streamlines. > > > > On the other hand, I have a prewar Megow coach that almost looks like it could be OO. > > > > Don > > > > Don Dellmann > > don.dellmann@ > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ > > http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction > > Owner > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16793	From: dennyanspach	Date: 6/14/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers gas electrics

The Walthers 6600 series cars, with/without stamped rivets and the gas electrics both had the underturned flanges at the bottom edge of the tinplate sides, and also had different cast ends than the new 7800 series.  I am unaware that the Gas Electric body was produced in anything to these 6600 series standards, nominally 1/8" to a foot.   Both it and the Shuttle Jack were discontinued because their smaller footprint was going to require too much retooling and new patterns to match the more prototypical and scale 7800s.   In order to get the earlier cars to properly match in scale both the JC and later 7800 cars, the roofs have to be replaced, and the sides deepened (note that steel passenger car sides  dip well below the car flooring- which the flanging of course would not allow on the model).  Adaption of the new more scale roof could be done with a little wood working, while deepening the side usually required the addition of  glued strips on top of  the flange edges, the joint being disguised with filler. I have a number of the 6600 series cars that I had to so alter in the early 50s; and two, a sleeper/solarium/obs, and a sleeper/open obs -modeled as a business car- reside in front of me on the layout; and both still look quite good doing so in the midst of brass, resin, plastic, and even wood passenger cars of much greater and more recent scale pretensions. I still have a generous stash of Walthers "7800" cast ends, wood roofs, roof detailing, air condition ducting, etc. that I accumulated for more such 6600 "improvements"- which never occurred. Denny Denny S.  Anspach MD Sacramento

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16794	From: Richard White	Date: 6/14/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Passenger Cars

Hi Matt, Don and Denny, et al: I'd really like to read a history of the Walthers passenger cars. For that matter, where does one find a copy of the Walthers Passenger Car Plan Book? I've recently become interested in these old Walthers kits, and currently I have six under construction, and several more coming in the mail. I've constructed all the floors/underbodies separately, then done the ends and sides with the requisite handrails and grab irons, and I have yet to do the roofs. Last, I'll prime, paint, and decal these pieces separately, then assemble them. I decided to omit interior details, as adding these would push my completion date WAY back! These are fun to construct, but require quite a bit of "engineering" to get them right. For instance, I'm working on a way to add "swing" hangers for the couplers (the American Beauty ones won't work here, because of the steps). I'm looking for a source for 3/16" wide brass strips for the hangers. Also, I made a jig from 3/4 inch brass strip for accurately drilling the holes for handrails in the sides. I use my Micro-Mark drill press with the jig, and 0.018" music wire for the handrails and grabs. Based on information from this forum, I'm using Barge cement (and GOO where I need a small linear application). I'm using 1-72 screws to secure the steps to the floors (in addition to glue). I might attempt step-by-step photos showing the typical assembly sequence. Regards- Richard White    To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: cwrailman@... Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2011 15:26:10 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Walthers Passenger Cars   Guys, This is the kind of conversation I joined this board to see. I appreciate hearing from those who have had intimate experience with these old craftsman kits. This is a great history lesson. Has anybody put together a history of the old Walthers passenger cars like the one in the files section about Ambroid? I would find that very interesting. Besides the color of the box, how can I determine the age of a Walthers passenger car kit? What are the clues. It appears I have four different Walthers passenger car box types. The oldest is yellow with Walthers written in script on the end. The next is white with some stripes and Walthers is printed on the end, the third is a blue box with a label attached to the end and the forth is an orange box with a label on the end. What dates do these colors represent? I have the revised second edition copy of the Walthers Passenger Car Plan book which seems to be dated 1973. I find this great for the interior layouts and seeing what cars are suited for which railroads. I have seriously thought of selling off my small collection of 9 Walthers passenger cars and 4 JC Models passenger cars. Recently I asked if anybody wanted to trade for some Ambroid passenger car kits but got no reply. However after reading this, I might consider actually building a few of those kits or at least one of the private cars, though I have no idea where I will operate them as they do not fit my short logging line which is serviced by a series of wood sided LaBelle passenger cars. Thanks for keeping the info flowing guys. Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "ablecynic" <mattjcoleman@...> wrote: > > Don, > > Thanks for helping stop a old rumor that has little basis in any fact. My sister-in-law used to work for Walthers and I wrote a book for them many years ago and had the chance to visit their facility and look at a lot of the old parts. Some of the lines that Walther's picked up from other failing companies may have had slightly out-of-scale products, but the Walther's were pretty serious modelers and everything they produced was as close to scale as they could make it with the limitations of the era. > > I have several of the doodlebug kits, including the one based on the articulated M-190 from the AT&SF. It is clearly not the same length as the real M-190 (it was designed to go around 18in radius curves) but the body height is the same as the CNW Doodlebug and the door height is the same as on the other doodlebugs. > > Because the articulated car is a freelance model, and shorter than the only possible prototype, people seem to have assumed that it is not to scale. > > This reminds me of the old saw about the AHC/New One die cast 2-8-2 being "larger than HO Scale." I own one and compared it with the prototype drawings in the MR Cyclopedia and the RMC article on the prototype and other than it being too long (to accommodate the driver flanges) and having a cab that sits too tall, the locomotive is dead on for HO scale. > > There is no substitute for a scale ruler. The human eye is not calibrated. > > Thanks for your post. > > Matt > > > > > "Everybody" says that early Walthers cars were 1/8". I have samples of all 4 "phases", from the original pre-war "Crestline" kits through the very last plastic-roofed cars. All compare favorably with each other height wise. > > The 6600 series cars prior to 1959 DID have a lower roof, but it was just in the roof piece itself, and could be corrected with a new 7800 series (or even plastic) roof. They also compare favorably with JC (both the original card and the silver sides), International, and Varney. > > > > I do NOT have any of the "Pug" cars, I cannot speak for them. > > > > The ONLY cars I have that possible could be a slightly smaller scale are the Varney Celluloid side streamlines. > > > > On the other hand, I have a prewar Megow coach that almost looks like it could be OO. > > > > Don > > > > Don Dellmann > > don.dellmann@ > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ > > http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction > > Owner > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16795	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 6/14/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers gas electrics

----- Original Message ----- From: "ablecynic" <mattjcoleman@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2011 6:22 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Walthers gas electrics > Don, > > Thanks for helping stop a old rumor that has little basis in any fact. My > sister-in-law used to work for Walthers and I wrote a book for them many > years ago and had the chance to visit their facility and look at a lot of > the old parts. Some of the lines that Walther's picked up from other > failing companies may have had slightly out-of-scale products, but the > Walther's were pretty serious modelers and everything they produced was as > close to scale as they could make it with the limitations of the era. > > I have several of the doodlebug kits, including the one based on the > articulated M-190 from the AT&SF. It is clearly not the same length as the > real M-190 (it was designed to go around 18in radius curves) but the body > height is the same as the CNW Doodlebug and the door height is the same as > on the other doodlebugs. > > Because the articulated car is a freelance model, and shorter than the > only possible prototype, people seem to have assumed that it is not to > scale. > > This reminds me of the old saw about the AHC/New One die cast 2-8-2 being > "larger than HO Scale." I own one and compared it with the prototype > drawings in the MR Cyclopedia and the RMC article on the prototype and > other than it being too long (to accommodate the driver flanges) and > having a cab that sits too tall, the locomotive is dead on for HO scale. > > There is no substitute for a scale ruler. The human eye is not calibrated. > > Thanks for your post. > > Matt > It was actually rather funny, I was AT Walther's today picking up some supplies and there was another old phart in the showroom killing time, so he and I started talking, and I started to talk about the various "phases" of the Walthers cars, and the 1/8" scale "legend", and you should have seen the guy behind the counter leaning forward trying to catch every word. With Bill and Bruce both gone, there's nobody there who even remembers the golden age. (Well, Bill Wischer is still there but he hides in his office). Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16796	From: keith gutshall	Date: 6/14/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Passenger Cars

Hi Richard  You might try Special Shapes for small size brass flatbar stock.  They make all the small size brass I have used.    Keith   Deep Run Portage Back Shop " The Lizard Works" From: Richard White <toytrain13@...> To: Jim Heckard <vintageho@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2011 5:34 PM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: Walthers Passenger Cars   Hi Matt, Don and Denny, et al: I'd really like to read a history of the Walthers passenger cars. For that matter, where does one find a copy of the Walthers Passenger Car Plan Book? I've recently become interested in these old Walthers kits, and currently I have six under construction, and several more coming in the mail. I've constructed all the floors/underbodies separately, then done the ends and sides with the requisite handrails and grab irons, and I have yet to do the roofs. Last, I'll prime, paint, and decal these pieces separately, then assemble them. I decided to omit interior details, as adding these would push my completion date WAY back! These are fun to construct, but require quite a bit of "engineering" to get them right. For instance, I'm working on a way to add "swing" hangers for the couplers (the American Beauty ones won't work here, because of the steps). I'm looking for a source for 3/16" wide brass strips for the hangers. Also, I made a jig from 3/4 inch brass strip for accurately drilling the holes for handrails in the sides. I use my Micro-Mark drill press with the jig, and 0.018" music wire for the handrails and grabs. Based on information from this forum, I'm using Barge cement (and GOO where I need a small linear application). I'm using 1-72 screws to secure the steps to the floors (in addition to glue). I might attempt step-by-step photos showing the typical assembly sequence. Regards- Richard White    To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: cwrailman@... Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2011 15:26:10 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Walthers Passenger Cars   Guys, This is the kind of conversation I joined this board to see. I appreciate hearing from those who have had intimate experience with these old craftsman kits. This is a great history lesson. Has anybody put together a history of the old Walthers passenger cars like the one in the files section about Ambroid? I would find that very interesting. Besides the color of the box, how can I determine the age of a Walthers passenger car kit? What are the clues. It appears I have four different Walthers passenger car box types. The oldest is yellow with Walthers written in script on the end. The next is white with some stripes and Walthers is printed on the end, the third is a blue box with a label attached to the end and the forth is an orange box with a label on the end. What dates do these colors represent? I have the revised second edition copy of the Walthers Passenger Car Plan book which seems to be dated 1973. I find this great for the interior layouts and seeing what cars are suited for which railroads. I have seriously thought of selling off my small collection of 9 Walthers passenger cars and 4 JC Models passenger cars. Recently I asked if anybody wanted to trade for some Ambroid passenger car kits but got no reply. However after reading this, I might consider actually building a few of those kits or at least one of the private cars, though I have no idea where I will operate them as they do not fit my short logging line which is serviced by a series of wood sided LaBelle passenger cars. Thanks for keeping the info flowing guys. Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "ablecynic" <mattjcoleman@...> wrote: > > Don, > > Thanks for helping stop a old rumor that has little basis in any fact. My sister-in-law used to work for Walthers and I wrote a book for them many years ago and had the chance to visit their facility and look at a lot of the old parts. Some of the lines that Walther's picked up from other failing companies may have had slightly out-of-scale products, but the Walther's were pretty serious modelers and everything they produced was as close to scale as they could make it with the limitations of the era. > > I have several of the doodlebug kits, including the one based on the articulated M-190 from the AT&SF. It is clearly not the same length as the real M-190 (it was designed to go around 18in radius curves) but the body height is the same as the CNW Doodlebug and the door height is the same as on the other doodlebugs. > > Because the articulated car is a freelance model, and shorter than the only possible prototype, people seem to have assumed that it is not to scale. > > This reminds me of the old saw about the AHC/New One die cast 2-8-2 being "larger than HO Scale." I own one and compared it with the prototype drawings in the MR Cyclopedia and the RMC article on the prototype and other than it being too long (to accommodate the driver flanges) and having a cab that sits too tall, the locomotive is dead on for HO scale. > > There is no substitute for a scale ruler. The human eye is not calibrated. > > Thanks for your post. > > Matt > > > > > "Everybody" says that early Walthers cars were 1/8". I have samples of all 4 "phases", from the original pre-war "Crestline" kits through the very last plastic-roofed cars. All compare favorably with each other height wise. > > The 6600 series cars prior to 1959 DID have a lower roof, but it was just in the roof piece itself, and could be corrected with a new 7800 series (or even plastic) roof. They also compare favorably with JC (both the original card and the silver sides), International, and Varney. > > > > I do NOT have any of the "Pug" cars, I cannot speak for them. > > > > The ONLY cars I have that possible could be a slightly smaller scale are the Varney Celluloid side streamlines. > > > > On the other hand, I have a prewar Megow coach that almost looks like it could be OO. > > > > Don > > > > Don Dellmann > > don.dellmann@ > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ > > http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction > > Owner > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16797	From: keith gutshall	Date: 6/14/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers gas electrics

Hi Guys  I have one of the 0-scale Walthers gas electrics.  I powered it with a big open framed Pittman motor. The power truck I made with some old slot car gears,it is kind of noisey,but it works.    Keith   Deep Run Portage Back Shop " The Lizard Works" From: Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2011 5:48 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Walthers gas electrics   ----- Original Message ----- From: "ablecynic" <mattjcoleman@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2011 6:22 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Walthers gas electrics > Don, > > Thanks for helping stop a old rumor that has little basis in any fact. My > sister-in-law used to work for Walthers and I wrote a book for them many > years ago and had the chance to visit their facility and look at a lot of > the old parts. Some of the lines that Walther's picked up from other > failing companies may have had slightly out-of-scale products, but the > Walther's were pretty serious modelers and everything they produced was as > close to scale as they could make it with the limitations of the era. > > I have several of the doodlebug kits, including the one based on the > articulated M-190 from the AT&SF. It is clearly not the same length as the > real M-190 (it was designed to go around 18in radius curves) but the body > height is the same as the CNW Doodlebug and the door height is the same as > on the other doodlebugs. > > Because the articulated car is a freelance model, and shorter than the > only possible prototype, people seem to have assumed that it is not to > scale. > > This reminds me of the old saw about the AHC/New One die cast 2-8-2 being > "larger than HO Scale." I own one and compared it with the prototype > drawings in the MR Cyclopedia and the RMC article on the prototype and > other than it being too long (to accommodate the driver flanges) and > having a cab that sits too tall, the locomotive is dead on for HO scale. > > There is no substitute for a scale ruler. The human eye is not calibrated. > > Thanks for your post. > > Matt > It was actually rather funny, I was AT Walther's today picking up some supplies and there was another old phart in the showroom killing time, so he and I started talking, and I started to talk about the various "phases" of the Walthers cars, and the 1/8" scale "legend", and you should have seen the guy behind the counter leaning forward trying to catch every word. With Bill and Bruce both gone, there's nobody there who even remembers the golden age. (Well, Bill Wischer is still there but he hides in his office). Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16798	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 6/14/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Passenger Cars

----- Original Message ----- From: "cwrailman" <cwrailman@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2011 10:26 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Walthers Passenger Cars > Guys, > > This is the kind of conversation I joined this board to see. I appreciate > hearing from those who have had intimate experience with these old > craftsman kits. This is a great history lesson. Has anybody put together > a history of the old Walthers passenger cars like the one in the files > section about Ambroid? I would find that very interesting. > > Besides the color of the box, how can I determine the age of a Walthers > passenger car kit? What are the clues. It appears I have four different > Walthers passenger car box types. The oldest is yellow with Walthers > written in script on the end. The next is white with some stripes and > Walthers is printed on the end, the third is a blue box with a label > attached to the end and the forth is an orange box with a label on the > end. What dates do these colors represent? > > I have the revised second edition copy of the Walthers Passenger Car Plan > book which seems to be dated 1973. I find this great for the interior > layouts and seeing what cars are suited for which railroads. > > I have seriously thought of selling off my small collection of 9 Walthers > passenger cars and 4 JC Models passenger cars. Recently I asked if > anybody wanted to trade for some Ambroid passenger car kits but got no > reply. However after reading this, I might consider actually building a > few of those kits or at least one of the private cars, though I have no > idea where I will operate them as they do not fit my short logging line > which is serviced by a series of wood sided LaBelle passenger cars. > > Thanks for keeping the info flowing guys. As to the Walthers' boxes, I can't give you exact dates, all the information in this post is from memory and pieces in my collection, however the very first ones had the "Crestline" name, these are probably pre-war, perhaps up to the mid 40's. Then there are yellow boxes that say "Walthers", with the Erie street address and "15 years...." (which would put them post 1949). The 7800 "Silver anniversary" cars will have the Water Street address, 1959 to 1969. and the North 34th. St. address from 1969-1976. "6600" series cars in a newer box will be mid to late 70's. The Florist avenue address will be from 1976 to the present. As far as the cars themselves, the original cars will have the sides folded under the floor, and no rivet detail on the sides. I call these "phase 1" from the late 1930's to the late 40's. "Phase 2" cars will be the same, but will have rivet detail on the sides. In 1959 we got "Phase 3" 7800 series cars. These have straight sides at the bottom, not folded under, and a higher roof. Many earlier cars got new roofs, and you could order the older lower roof on the 7800's if you already had a large fleet of older 6600 series cars (this was explained in catalogs of the era). Then, in the mid 70's, the 6600 series was reintroduced for the monitor roof cars, now with the molded plastic roof (which they did not make, they bought it, I believe from Nickel Plate models), the arch roof cars retained their 7800 series numbers, but all kits now included super details, formerly purchased separately. I call these "Phase 4". By 1980 the cars were pretty much gone. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16799	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 6/14/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Passenger Cars

Speaking of vintage kits and such, I just recently built a Crestline (Walthers) and a Bathgate model--both of which seemed rather primitive to say the least. Apparently the Bathgate model in particular was a wartime product as they say in the assembly instuctions that they were working on a Mogul loco to pull their stuff after the war was over. With that in mind, I'm even more curious as to the genesis of the Ideal Aeroplane and Supply Company's 150 ton wrecker which was/is many notches above them and a rather sophisticated model for a card stock and wood kit and that certainly was available in the early Forties-- as my late bro built one in 1943 when he as 16 (we still have it). I have always wondered exactly when that kit was first offered and how it came about in a field of such weak sisters. I'm guessing it may have originated in the late Thirties when Walthers seems to have come out with their line of nice passenger cars--one of which I did with a plan date of 1939. I have not read all of the discussion about early Walthers stuff, so some of the above may have already been answered. . . .   Art W     In a message dated 6/14/2011 7:16:56 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, don.dellmann@... writes: ----- Original Message ----- From: "cwrailman" <cwrailman@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2011 10:26 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Walthers Passenger Cars > Guys, > > This is the kind of conversation I joined this board to see.  I appreciate > hearing from those who have had intimate experience with these old > craftsman kits.  This is a great history lesson.  Has anybody put together > a history of the old Walthers passenger cars like the one in the files > section about Ambroid?  I would find that very interesting. > > Besides the color of the box, how can I determine the age of a Walthers > passenger car kit?  What are the clues.  It appears I have four different > Walthers passenger car box types.  The oldest is yellow with Walthers > written in script on the end.  The next is white with some stripes and > Walthers is printed on the end, the third is a blue box with a label > attached to the end and the forth is an orange box with a label on the > end.  What dates do these colors represent? > > I have the revised second edition copy of the Walthers Passenger Car Plan > book which seems to be dated 1973.  I find this great for the interior > layouts and seeing what cars are suited for which railroads. > > I have seriously thought of selling off my small collection of 9 Walthers > passenger cars and 4 JC Models passenger cars.  Recently I asked if > anybody wanted to trade for some Ambroid passenger car kits but got no > reply.  However after reading this, I might consider actually building a > few of those kits or at least one of the private cars, though I have no > idea where I will operate them as they do not fit my short logging line > which is serviced by a series of wood sided LaBelle passenger cars. > > Thanks for keeping the info flowing guys. As to the Walthers'  boxes, I can't give you exact dates, all the information in this post is from memory and pieces in my collection, however the very first ones had the "Crestline" name, these are probably pre-war, perhaps up to the mid 40's.  Then there are yellow boxes that say "Walthers", with the Erie street address and "15 years...." (which would put them post 1949).  The 7800 "Silver anniversary" cars will have the Water Street address,  1959 to 1969.  and the North 34th. St. address from 1969-1976.  "6600" series cars in a newer box will be mid to late 70's.  The Florist avenue address will be from 1976 to the present. As far as the cars themselves, the original cars will have the sides folded under the floor, and no rivet detail on the sides.  I call these "phase 1" from the late 1930's to the late 40's.   "Phase 2" cars will be the same, but will have rivet detail on the sides. In 1959 we got "Phase 3" 7800 series cars.  These have straight sides at the bottom, not folded under, and a higher roof.  Many earlier cars got new roofs, and you could order the older lower roof on the 7800's if you already had a large fleet of older 6600 series cars (this was explained in catalogs of the era). Then, in the mid 70's, the 6600 series was reintroduced for the monitor roof cars, now with the molded plastic roof (which they did not make, they bought it, I believe from Nickel Plate models), the arch roof cars retained their 7800 series numbers, but all kits now included super details, formerly purchased separately.  I call these "Phase 4". By 1980 the cars were pretty much gone. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ------------------------------------ Yahoo! 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Group: vintageHO	Message: 16800	From: jake_iv@juno.com	Date: 6/14/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Passenger Cars

Just a brief note about the Walthers "Pug" cars. I have had several and still have one unbilt kit on hand, kit #7705 Diner.  The box says it is red, (actually Tuscan),complete with trucks and decals, (Walthers of course).  The Pug cars are really "simplified" but not grossly out of scale.  The kit includes a prepainted sheetmetal body with sides welded to the floor, a plastic roof, a pair of trucks kit with brass wheels on needle point axles, one side insulated, die cast ends which you mount to the floor with screws. A die cast center sill which mounts to the floor with one screw, the roof is mounted to the ends with screws accessed through holes punched in the floor and it holds the car side in alignment via lugs cast into the roof.  All screws are machine screws and are held in place by speed screws on cast in place, threaded mount holes in the metal parts.  The steps and ladders have an integral universal coupler pocket.  On my kit there is no "flash" or ragged edges to be cleaned up.  This is a "screwdriver kit".  A small flat bladed screwdriver, a pair of scissors and some glue are all the tools that you need. Scale?  Using a scale ruler and a micrometer.  The car measures 56' 6" long, 9' 11 1/4" wide including roof overhang, and 9' 6" tall exclusive of center sill.  When assembled the trucks are 12' 9" long, unsprung, equalized metal trucks and the brass wheelsets are 35 3/4" in diameter over the treads.  I would say that that is a pretty good job of matching "scale" for a 70 year old "kit" with the exception of car length. The instruction sheet includes "specific instructions" for installing Walthers auto couplers, Mantua couplers, Devore couplers, NMRA, Roundhouse and Kadee souplers.  There is a notation that you can write for specific instructions for installing "old style" kadee couplers. Kit paper work include a plug for the full scale Walthers cars and the info that the Pug cars are available as Postal, Combine, baggage, coach, diner, observation and pullman styled.  The kit is packaged in a box that is dark blue with red & white strips on one end.  The kit is labeled as a "BeeJay" kit from the BeeJay line of model railroad accessories spelled out across a caboose and 3 flat car silouetes and underneath that is the lettering for "Walthers Specialties Inc.   4749 N. Diversey    Milwaukee 11, Wis. To be really frank at this point,  I am torn between selling my diner or trying to amass some more Pug cars to run on a small east coast type mountainous layout. Sure hope that this aids someone else in their quest for the "perfect" vintage HO. Jake Bechtel Gadsden, AL

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16801	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 6/14/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Passenger Cars

A couple comments, FWIW, I would guess when they say "old" style they're referring to the Kadee K series, as opposed to the "MK" series which would date it around 1960. Also, the Diversey avenue address was either Bill or Bruce's home in Whitefish Bay. They also used that address and the "Walther's Specialties" name when they first came out with "Goo", as well as for the paper building kits, building paper and the last wooden refrigerator car kits all around the late 50's, early 60's. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: <jake_iv@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2011 7:00 PM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: Walthers Passenger Cars Just a brief note about the Walthers "Pug" cars. I have had several and still have one unbilt kit on hand, kit #7705 Diner. The box says it is red, (actually Tuscan),complete with trucks and decals, (Walthers of course). The Pug cars are really "simplified" but not grossly out of scale. The kit includes a prepainted sheetmetal body with sides welded to the floor, a plastic roof, a pair of trucks kit with brass wheels on needle point axles, one side insulated, die cast ends which you mount to the floor with screws. A die cast center sill which mounts to the floor with one screw, the roof is mounted to the ends with screws accessed through holes punched in the floor and it holds the car side in alignment via lugs cast into the roof. All screws are machine screws and are held in place by speed screws on cast in place, threaded mount holes in the metal parts. The steps and ladders have an integral universal coupler pocket. On my kit there is no "flash" or ragged edges to be cleaned up. This is a "screwdriver kit". A small flat bladed screwdriver, a pair of scissors and some glue are all the tools that you need. Scale? Using a scale ruler and a micrometer. The car measures 56' 6" long, 9' 11 1/4" wide including roof overhang, and 9' 6" tall exclusive of center sill. When assembled the trucks are 12' 9" long, unsprung, equalized metal trucks and the brass wheelsets are 35 3/4" in diameter over the treads. I would say that that is a pretty good job of matching "scale" for a 70 year old "kit" with the exception of car length. The instruction sheet includes "specific instructions" for installing Walthers auto couplers, Mantua couplers, Devore couplers, NMRA, Roundhouse and Kadee souplers. There is a notation that you can write for specific instructions for installing "old style" kadee couplers. Kit paper work include a plug for the full scale Walthers cars and the info that the Pug cars are available as Postal, Combine, baggage, coach, diner, observation and pullman styled. The kit is packaged in a box that is dark blue with red & white strips on one end. The kit is labeled as a "BeeJay" kit from the BeeJay line of model railroad accessories spelled out across a caboose and 3 flat car silouetes and underneath that is the lettering for "Walthers Specialties Inc. 4749 N. Diversey Milwaukee 11, Wis. To be really frank at this point, I am torn between selling my diner or trying to amass some more Pug cars to run on a small east coast type mountainous layout. Sure hope that this aids someone else in their quest for the "perfect" vintage HO. Jake Bechtel Gadsden, AL

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16802	From: cwrailman	Date: 6/14/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Passenger Cars

Don, If you go to Dens Virtual Hobby shop and click on the Walthers car kit you will see one of two of that vintage kit that I have. When you click on the end flap you will see the kit. Open that to the original size. You can see some of the detail. The two kits both have the same packaging card. Phil Walthers told me he believed they were packed by his grandfather. The packaging date is 8-15-1947. Both kits have the rivet paper but also have rivet detail across the top and the bottom of the sides. Is this considered a riveted side? Both of these kits came from the Linn Westcott collection which was sold off after Linn passed away. These are the oldest Walthers passenger cars in my collection. Does anybody collect these? Time to turn in. Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "cwrailman" <cwrailman@...> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2011 10:26 AM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Walthers Passenger Cars > > > > Guys, > > > > This is the kind of conversation I joined this board to see. I appreciate > > hearing from those who have had intimate experience with these old > > craftsman kits. This is a great history lesson. Has anybody put together > > a history of the old Walthers passenger cars like the one in the files > > section about Ambroid? I would find that very interesting. > > > > Besides the color of the box, how can I determine the age of a Walthers > > passenger car kit? What are the clues. It appears I have four different > > Walthers passenger car box types. The oldest is yellow with Walthers > > written in script on the end. The next is white with some stripes and > > Walthers is printed on the end, the third is a blue box with a label > > attached to the end and the forth is an orange box with a label on the > > end. What dates do these colors represent? > > > > I have the revised second edition copy of the Walthers Passenger Car Plan > > book which seems to be dated 1973. I find this great for the interior > > layouts and seeing what cars are suited for which railroads. > > > > I have seriously thought of selling off my small collection of 9 Walthers > > passenger cars and 4 JC Models passenger cars. Recently I asked if > > anybody wanted to trade for some Ambroid passenger car kits but got no > > reply. However after reading this, I might consider actually building a > > few of those kits or at least one of the private cars, though I have no > > idea where I will operate them as they do not fit my short logging line > > which is serviced by a series of wood sided LaBelle passenger cars. > > > > Thanks for keeping the info flowing guys. > > As to the Walthers' boxes, I can't give you exact dates, all the > information in this post is from memory and pieces in my collection, however > the very first ones had the "Crestline" name, these are probably pre-war, > perhaps up to the mid 40's. Then there are yellow boxes that say > "Walthers", with the Erie street address and "15 years...." (which would put > them post 1949). The 7800 "Silver anniversary" cars will have the Water > Street address, 1959 to 1969. and the North 34th. St. address from > 1969-1976. "6600" series cars in a newer box will be mid to late 70's. The > Florist avenue address will be from 1976 to the present. > > As far as the cars themselves, the original cars will have the sides folded > under the floor, and no rivet detail on the sides. I call these "phase 1" > from the late 1930's to the late 40's. "Phase 2" cars will be the same, > but will have rivet detail on the sides. > > In 1959 we got "Phase 3" 7800 series cars. These have straight sides at the > bottom, not folded under, and a higher roof. Many earlier cars got new > roofs, and you could order the older lower roof on the 7800's if you already > had a large fleet of older 6600 series cars (this was explained in catalogs > of the era). > > Then, in the mid 70's, the 6600 series was reintroduced for the monitor roof > cars, now with the molded plastic roof (which they did not make, they bought > it, I believe from Nickel Plate models), the arch roof cars retained their > 7800 series numbers, but all kits now included super details, formerly > purchased separately. I call these "Phase 4". > > By 1980 the cars were pretty much gone. > > Don > > Don Dellmann > don.dellmann@... > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ > http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction > Owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16803	From: Charlie	Date: 6/14/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Passenger Cars

Hi   Where do we find Dens Virtual Hobby shop   Thnaks   Charlie From: cwrailman Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2011 5:00 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Walthers Passenger Cars   Don, If you go to Dens Virtual Hobby shop and click on the Walthers car kit you will see one of two of that vintage kit that I have. When you click on the end flap you will see the kit. Open that to the original size. You can see some of the detail. The two kits both have the same packaging card. Phil Walthers told me he believed they were packed by his grandfather. The packaging date is 8-15-1947. Both kits have the rivet paper but also have rivet detail across the top and the bottom of the sides. Is this considered a riveted side? Both of these kits came from the Linn Westcott collection which was sold off after Linn passed away. These are the oldest Walthers passenger cars in my collection. Does anybody collect these? Time to turn in. Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "cwrailman" <cwrailman@...> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2011 10:26 AM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Walthers Passenger Cars > > > > Guys, > > > > This is the kind of conversation I joined this board to see. I appreciate > > hearing from those who have had intimate experience with these old > > craftsman kits. This is a great history lesson. Has anybody put together > > a history of the old Walthers passenger cars like the one in the files > > section about Ambroid? I would find that very interesting. > > > > Besides the color of the box, how can I determine the age of a Walthers > > passenger car kit? What are the clues. It appears I have four different > > Walthers passenger car box types. The oldest is yellow with Walthers > > written in script on the end. The next is white with some stripes and > > Walthers is printed on the end, the third is a blue box with a label > > attached to the end and the forth is an orange box with a label on the > > end. What dates do these colors represent? > > > > I have the revised second edition copy of the Walthers Passenger Car Plan > > book which seems to be dated 1973. I find this great for the interior > > layouts and seeing what cars are suited for which railroads. > > > > I have seriously thought of selling off my small collection of 9 Walthers > > passenger cars and 4 JC Models passenger cars. Recently I asked if > > anybody wanted to trade for some Ambroid passenger car kits but got no > > reply. However after reading this, I might consider actually building a > > few of those kits or at least one of the private cars, though I have no > > idea where I will operate them as they do not fit my short logging line > > which is serviced by a series of wood sided LaBelle passenger cars. > > > > Thanks for keeping the info flowing guys. > > As to the Walthers' boxes, I can't give you exact dates, all the > information in this post is from memory and pieces in my collection, however > the very first ones had the "Crestline" name, these are probably pre-war, > perhaps up to the mid 40's. Then there are yellow boxes that say > "Walthers", with the Erie street address and "15 years...." (which would put > them post 1949). The 7800 "Silver anniversary" cars will have the Water > Street address, 1959 to 1969. and the North 34th. St. address from > 1969-1976. "6600" series cars in a newer box will be mid to late 70's. The > Florist avenue address will be from 1976 to the present. > > As far as the cars themselves, the original cars will have the sides folded > under the floor, and no rivet detail on the sides. I call these "phase 1" > from the late 1930's to the late 40's. "Phase 2" cars will be the same, > but will have rivet detail on the sides. > > In 1959 we got "Phase 3" 7800 series cars. These have straight sides at the > bottom, not folded under, and a higher roof. Many earlier cars got new > roofs, and you could order the older lower roof on the 7800's if you already > had a large fleet of older 6600 series cars (this was explained in catalogs > of the era). > > Then, in the mid 70's, the 6600 series was reintroduced for the monitor roof > cars, now with the molded plastic roof (which they did not make, they bought > it, I believe from Nickel Plate models), the arch roof cars retained their > 7800 series numbers, but all kits now included super details, formerly > purchased separately. I call these "Phase 4". > > By 1980 the cars were pretty much gone. > > Don > > Don Dellmann > don.dellmann@... > href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/">http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ > http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction > Owner > href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO">http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16804	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 6/15/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Passenger Cars

----- Original Message ----- From: "cwrailman" <cwrailman@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2011 12:00 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Walthers Passenger Cars > Don, > > If you go to Dens Virtual Hobby shop and click on the Walthers car kit you > will see one of two of that vintage kit that I have. When you click on > the end flap you will see the kit. Open that to the original size. You > can see some of the detail. The two kits both have the same packaging > card. Phil Walthers told me he believed they were packed by his > grandfather. The packaging date is 8-15-1947. > > Both kits have the rivet paper but also have rivet detail across the top > and the bottom of the sides. Is this considered a riveted side? > > Both of these kits came from the Linn Westcott collection which was sold > off after Linn passed away. These are the oldest Walthers passenger cars > in my collection. Does anybody collect these? > > Time to turn in. > > Denny > Janitor in Training > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops With the rivet detail those would be what I call "phase 2", and the 1947 date fits right in. (of course I was only six months old, so I can't say I speak from personal experience <G>) Having something that Linn had would be neat. I had a chance to get my hands on some of Art Curran's kitbashed structures a few years back after he passed away and his son was selling them, but didn't follow through. :-( Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16805	From: ablecynic	Date: 6/15/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers gas electrics

Don, Who knows, you may have made another convert. I also appreciate the calls for a book on the history of Walther's HO kits. I am the least qualified person to do that, but would gladly share what little info I have on it with someone who is interested in starting the research. Matt Coleman > > > > It was actually rather funny, I was AT Walther's today picking up some > supplies and there was another old phart in the showroom killing time, so he > and I started talking, and I started to talk about the various "phases" of > the Walthers cars, and the 1/8" scale "legend", and you should have seen > the guy behind the counter leaning forward trying to catch every word. With > Bill and Bruce both gone, there's nobody there who even remembers the golden > age. (Well, Bill Wischer is still there but he hides in his office). > > Don > > Don Dellmann > don.dellmann@... > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ > http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction > Owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16806	From: jim heckard	Date: 6/15/2011
Subject: Wathers Pug Passenger Car Set

Attachments : IMG_7088_2.JPG IMG_7084_1.JPG                   Since there is discussion going on about Walthers Passenger cars, including the "Pug" I thought I would send these pictures of a complete mint set ( Pullman Green ) of kits in the original box.       This is the history of the  Wathers PUG passenger cars:  Seven different passenger cars were released in 1954 and issued as the 7700 Series. The unique body was a tin plated one piece floor and sides. The ends and end platforms were diecast and screw assembly. The diecast under frame included the center sill and battery box detail. A molded plastic roof completed the car. The kits included decals, trucks and the body was pre painted either Pullman Green with gold decals, Tuscan Red with gold decals and Yellow with red decals ( which I have never seen or heard of ). The cars measured 60 feet long. The last run of these cars was in 1962 and by 1972 the series sold out.        I am lucky to have all the copies of " The Reporting Mark' which was the newsletter of the now defunct H O Scale Collectors & History - Special Interest Group. ( HOSC&H-SIG ) It contains information about Walthers from 1936 including  passenger cars called Taylor Made of Armite and Crestline. The bad part is it is spread over 4 issues of "the Reporting Mark"  About 6 pages both sides in each issue. Could never copy all of it and I have no scanner. I might be able to answer certain questions about certain runs but impossible to type it all. These issues also carry Engines, motors and other items Walthers made from the beginning but I have no index to go right to it.                                    Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 16807	From: dennyanspach	Date: 6/15/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Passenger Cars

The Walthers 6600 series was no longer listed by Walthers by 1953. Instead their passenger car line was all numbered in the 7600s. Although most of my collection of ancient Walthers catalogues no longer reside with me (but still live in the collections of the California State Railroad Museum), a review of a retained  1953 catalogue confirms this change.  I am guessing that when Walthers changed their tinplate sides from "no rivets"  (except for separate embossed Bristol board rivet strips included in the kits) to stamped rivets, the product-line numbers changed 6600-> 7600. For those who are dismissive of the 1/8"/ft. (or something  less-than-3.5mm/ft) scale allegation re: the early Walthers passenger car kits, I suggest that you look again. It is not so surprising. So many of the early published HO plans that were relied upon for years as standards by both manufacturers and modelers alike in both MR and Model Craftsman were 1/8"/foot ("Half O", i.e. 1/4"/foot divided in half). The many plans in MR Cyclopedias of 1937 through 1950 were all  published in 1/8" scale, from which at least some of the Walthers cars were developed.   It was a scale-of-convenience that was not that far off (0.013") so that most would not notice, or would not care. The modeler could use any ruler for his modeling activities.  Although some manufacturers, e.g. Varney. started right out adhering to a 3.5mm/ft. scale, many others did not until some years later.  The molded roofs supplied to Walthers in later years by Nickel Plate Products were apparently developed by NPP for a stillborn project for the production of kits for the Milwaukee Road's experimental car #4000, a  coach built by the MIlwaukee Shops c.1933/4  from the bones of Barney & Smith 12-1 sleeping car GREAT FALLS. This distinctive 4000 with its smooth welded sides and arched windows (with retained clearstory roof) was the pattern car from which the MIlwaukee then developed its long line of light weight Hiawatha cars in 1934.  NPP had the brass sides made in Japan, and I have always presumed that Walthers parts were to be used to finish the cars. Just how, when, and where Walthers and NPP hooked up on the roofs I do not know.  Many years ago after the death of NPP's owner,  a sack full of these 4000 sides and roofs came into my hands. Although the above factoid represents no added special knowledge on the scale issue, my own relationship to Walthers goes back to the early '50s when I negotiated for some time with Bill Walthers, who then made up a series of special decals for me (most people have forgotten that Walthers was once a major decal supplier, if not THE major such supplier).  I got the feeling at the time that Mr.Walthers particularly enjoyed that end of the business (decals).   In the later '80s, Overland produced in brass the Milwaukee's #4000 in its entirety. Denny Denny S.  Anspach MD Sacramento

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16808	From: cwrailman	Date: 6/15/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Passenger Cars

Charlie, It can be found here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/files/Dens%20Hobby%20Shop/ Some folks who do not have 2003 or later Excel have reported problems seeing the store etc. Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Charlie" <railroads@...> wrote: > > Hi > > Where do we find Dens Virtual Hobby shop > > Thnaks > > Charlie > > > From: cwrailman > Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2011 5:00 PM > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Walthers Passenger Cars > > > > Don, > > If you go to Dens Virtual Hobby shop and click on the Walthers car kit you will see one of two of that vintage kit that I have. When you click on the end flap you will see the kit. Open that to the original size. You can see some of the detail. The two kits both have the same packaging card. Phil Walthers told me he believed they were packed by his grandfather. The packaging date is 8-15-1947. > > Both kits have the rivet paper but also have rivet detail across the top and the bottom of the sides. Is this considered a riveted side? > > Both of these kits came from the Linn Westcott collection which was sold off after Linn passed away. These are the oldest Walthers passenger cars in my collection. Does anybody collect these? > > Time to turn in. > > Denny > Janitor in Training > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@> wrote: > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "cwrailman" <cwrailman@> > > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2011 10:26 AM > > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Walthers Passenger Cars > > > > > > > Guys, > > > > > > This is the kind of conversation I joined this board to see. I appreciate > > > hearing from those who have had intimate experience with these old > > > craftsman kits. This is a great history lesson. Has anybody put together > > > a history of the old Walthers passenger cars like the one in the files > > > section about Ambroid? I would find that very interesting. > > > > > > Besides the color of the box, how can I determine the age of a Walthers > > > passenger car kit? What are the clues. It appears I have four different > > > Walthers passenger car box types. The oldest is yellow with Walthers > > > written in script on the end. The next is white with some stripes and > > > Walthers is printed on the end, the third is a blue box with a label > > > attached to the end and the forth is an orange box with a label on the > > > end. What dates do these colors represent? > > > > > > I have the revised second edition copy of the Walthers Passenger Car Plan > > > book which seems to be dated 1973. I find this great for the interior > > > layouts and seeing what cars are suited for which railroads. > > > > > > I have seriously thought of selling off my small collection of 9 Walthers > > > passenger cars and 4 JC Models passenger cars. Recently I asked if > > > anybody wanted to trade for some Ambroid passenger car kits but got no > > > reply. However after reading this, I might consider actually building a > > > few of those kits or at least one of the private cars, though I have no > > > idea where I will operate them as they do not fit my short logging line > > > which is serviced by a series of wood sided LaBelle passenger cars. > > > > > > Thanks for keeping the info flowing guys. > > > > As to the Walthers' boxes, I can't give you exact dates, all the > > information in this post is from memory and pieces in my collection, however > > the very first ones had the "Crestline" name, these are probably pre-war, > > perhaps up to the mid 40's. Then there are yellow boxes that say > > "Walthers", with the Erie street address and "15 years...." (which would put > > them post 1949). The 7800 "Silver anniversary" cars will have the Water > > Street address, 1959 to 1969. and the North 34th. St. address from > > 1969-1976. "6600" series cars in a newer box will be mid to late 70's. The > > Florist avenue address will be from 1976 to the present. > > > > As far as the cars themselves, the original cars will have the sides folded > > under the floor, and no rivet detail on the sides. I call these "phase 1" > > from the late 1930's to the late 40's. "Phase 2" cars will be the same, > > but will have rivet detail on the sides. > > > > In 1959 we got "Phase 3" 7800 series cars. These have straight sides at the > > bottom, not folded under, and a higher roof. Many earlier cars got new > > roofs, and you could order the older lower roof on the 7800's if you already > > had a large fleet of older 6600 series cars (this was explained in catalogs > > of the era). > > > > Then, in the mid 70's, the 6600 series was reintroduced for the monitor roof > > cars, now with the molded plastic roof (which they did not make, they bought > > it, I believe from Nickel Plate models), the arch roof cars retained their > > 7800 series numbers, but all kits now included super details, formerly > > purchased separately. I call these "Phase 4". > > > > By 1980 the cars were pretty much gone. > > > > Don > > > > Don Dellmann > > don.dellmann@ > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ > > http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction > > Owner > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16809	From: cwrailman	Date: 6/15/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Passenger Cars

I don't know about the below statement. I am looking at the Walthers 1974 Catalog pages 8-23 and they have a lot of cars in the 6600 series listed. In fact over half the Walthers Passenger cars listed in this catalog have a 6000 series number. Such as 80' Monitor Roof 24 Seat Pullman Cafe Kit #6606 and 80' Monitor Roof 36 seat Diner Kit #6615 just to name two. When you say 6600 series are these the types of cars you are talking about. Am I missing something here?? (Newbee to the history of these kits.) Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, dennyanspach <danspach@...> wrote: > > "The Walthers 6600 series was no longer listed by Walthers by 1953. Instead their passenger car line was all numbered in the 7600s. > Denny > > Denny S. Anspach MD > Sacramento" >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16810	From: cwrailman	Date: 6/15/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Passenger Cars

I may have just found the answer to my own question. On page 9 of the 1974 Walthers catalog I found this: "NOTE: All the former 7800 series monitor roof cars now come with molded plastic roofs, & have been renumbered in the 6600 series – except the 7807, 7812 and 7899 cars which still have the milled wood roofs. (7801 = 6601, 7857 = 6657, etc.)" Could that explain why the 6600 series reappeared after they were dropped in 1953? Just above that note on the same page is this: "All 7800 and 6600 series passenger car kits now come complete with super details." Cornfused! Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "cwrailman" <cwrailman@...> wrote: > > I don't know about the below statement. I am looking at the Walthers 1974 Catalog pages 8-23 and they have a lot of cars in the 6600 series listed. In fact over half the Walthers Passenger cars listed in this catalog have a 6000 series number. > > Such as 80' Monitor Roof 24 Seat Pullman Cafe Kit #6606 and 80' Monitor Roof 36 seat Diner Kit #6615 just to name two. When you say 6600 series are these the types of cars you are talking about. > > Am I missing something here?? (Newbee to the history of these kits.) > > Denny > Janitor in Training > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, dennyanspach <danspach@> wrote: > > > > "The Walthers 6600 series was no longer listed by Walthers by 1953. Instead their passenger car line was all numbered in the 7600s. > Denny > > > > Denny S. Anspach MD > > Sacramento" > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16811	From: jim heckard	Date: 6/15/2011
Subject: Walthers Gas Electric

Attachments : IMG_7118_1.JPG         Since there has been some discussion concerning the Walthers Gas Electric I sent a picture.        It's a complete basket case someone sent me and I rebuilt, painted and decaled to suit me.           The confusing thing to me is the different numbers. I have a 1946 catalog the  Gas Electric is No 5650 Complete kit ( Page B-5 ) and  I have a paper page 2 HO Power by Wm K Walthers Inc that list the number 6450 for the Gas Electric ( Doodle Bug ). Confusing but interesting. The only difference I can see is the 6450 picture has a 4 window mail door ( like the picture I sent)  while the 5650 has a  3 window mail door. If the pictures are right it had to affect the length of the car and it's sides. To me it means two different productions. Any idea or comment.          I will have to send a of each type.                                             Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 16812	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 6/15/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Gas Electric [1 Attachment]

That is a very nice one Jim. Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: jimheck@... Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2011 14:26:31 -0400 Subject: [vintageHO] Walthers Gas Electric [1 Attachment]   [Attachment(s) from jim heckard included below]         Since there has been some discussion concerning the Walthers Gas Electric I sent a picture.        It's a complete basket case someone sent me and I rebuilt, painted and decaled to suit me.           The confusing thing to me is the different numbers. I have a 1946 catalog the  Gas Electric is No 5650 Complete kit ( Page B-5 ) and  I have a paper page 2 HO Power by Wm K Walthers Inc that list the number 6450 for the Gas Electric ( Doodle Bug ). Confusing but interesting. The only difference I can see is the 6450 picture has a 4 window mail door ( like the picture I sent)  while the 5650 has a  3 window mail door. If the pictures are right it had to affect the length of the car and it's sides. To me it means two different productions. Any idea or comment.          I will have to send a of each type.                                             Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16813	From: jim heckard	Date: 6/15/2011
Subject: Walthers Gas Electric Doodlbug

Attachments : IMG_7125_1.JPG          The Gas Electric at the top of the picture from a Walthers book is numbered   6450 Gas Electric and has a 4 window panel door.      The Gas Electric at the bottom comes from a Walthers catalog  is numbered 5650  Gas Electric and has a 3 window panel door.       Where there two runs ?                       Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 16814	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 6/15/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Passenger Cars

Attachments : img002.jpg The 6600 number series was resurrected when they went to the plastic roofs on the monitor roof cars. You will notice the arch roof cars of the same vintage still carry the 7800 numbers. I do stand corrected on the original 6600's, I got that information from the spreadsheet in the group file section. The "Silver anniversary" cars were the 7800's, introduced in 1959. Regarding the new roof on the silver anniversary cars, you may find the attached scan from the 1960 catalog of interest. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "cwrailman" <cwrailman@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2011 12:48 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Walthers Passenger Cars >I don't know about the below statement. I am looking at the Walthers 1974 >Catalog pages 8-23 and they have a lot of cars in the 6600 series listed. >In fact over half the Walthers Passenger cars listed in this catalog have a >6000 series number. > > Such as 80' Monitor Roof 24 Seat Pullman Cafe Kit #6606 and 80' Monitor > Roof 36 seat Diner Kit #6615 just to name two. When you say 6600 series > are these the types of cars you are talking about. > > Am I missing something here?? (Newbee to the history of these kits.) > > Denny > Janitor in Training > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, dennyanspach <danspach@...> wrote: >> >> "The Walthers 6600 series was no longer listed by Walthers by 1953. >> Instead their passenger car line was all numbered in the 7600s. > Denny >> >> Denny S. Anspach MD >> Sacramento" >> > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 16815	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 6/15/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Gas Electric Doodlbug [1 Attachment]

Try THREE! The oldest book I have (1960) lists the 6450. By 1976 they were advertising the "revised and improved" version as catalog no 6451 Don ----- Original Message ----- From: "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2011 1:39 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Walthers Gas Electric Doodlbug [1 Attachment] The Gas Electric at the top of the picture from a Walthers book is numbered 6450 Gas Electric and has a 4 window panel door. The Gas Electric at the bottom comes from a Walthers catalog is numbered 5650 Gas Electric and has a 3 window panel door. Where there two runs ? Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16816	From: dennyanspach	Date: 6/15/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Passenger Cars- a correction

Contrary to my last post, I have discovered that at least in the  1940 Catalogue Bill Walthers stated specifically that the passenger car kits were "built to a scale of 3.5 [sic] to 1 ft", and in a separate small scale free standing Walthers elevation plan of 1941 in my files, the scale is specified as "3.5 mm/1 ft.".   Now, this does not change my empirical observation that in fact the completed early cars came out at something slightly less than 3.5 mm/ft. but perhaps not exactly to the 1/8"/ft. that I averred previously. Denny Denny S.  Anspach MD Sacramento

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16817	From: Railroad Modeler	Date: 6/15/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Gas Electric Doodlebug [1 Attachment]

Hi Jim,   I sure wish I could say for sure one way or the other, but the fact is I wasn’t even remotely involved with any of Walthers production runs. I did notice some differences between the two units. I’m sure others have seen them, I guess I just beat them to the keyboard!   Based on differences in appearance between the two units, I think we are definitely looking at two different production runs. For clarity, I number parts starting at the front of the unit.     Detail Parts: on the top unit, the rungs of the ladder that extend below the bodyline appear to be cast as part of the body (like I’m used to seeing on my AHM C-Liner) whereas the lower unit has wire pieces that look like something the modeler is to install during construction, specifically at the second door and third doors. The top unit has two panes in the first door but the lower unit has only one. Along the roof of the top unit the circulation vents are square, boxy things whereas on the lower unit they appear to be bump-outs in the roof. It is difficult to be sure, but it *appears* that the louvers between the second and third doors are different; the top unit has louvers, the bottom unit seems to have a pane of glass.     Underbody: the top unit has some sort of skirt below the bodyline that runs from the front of the first door to just short of the second door, the lower unit has none. What I presume is the battery box is much bigger under the upper unit than under the lower one. The top unit has a different style of brake/cylinder rigging than the lower unit, and there are more pieces. The top unit does not have any underbody detail just fore of the aft truck but the bottom unit does. The lead truck on the top unit runs from just ahead of the first door to just ahead of the second door, and on the bottom unit it runs from just behind the front of the vehicle to just past the ladder rungs. My eyes are not calibrated, so it may just be that both lead trucks are the same size but is mounted forward on the bottom unit. Also the truck frames of the bottom unit appear to be different than those of the top unit.   Roofline: it could just be a trick of lighting (at least, that’s what I’m gonna claim if I’m wrong) but the top unit appears to have a square profile where the roofline transitions to the rear bulkhead, while the bottom unit appears to have a pronounced rounded droop. Or I just need to visit my optometrist for a stronger prescription.     I hope some of this is useful.     Time to rest my eyes…   Regards,   Ken B   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jim heckard Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2011 12:39 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Walthers Gas Electric Doodlbug [1 Attachment]   [Attachment(s) from jim heckard removed by Ken B :-) ]      The Gas Electric at the top of the picture from a Walthers book is numbered   6450 Gas Electric and has a 4 window panel door.      The Gas Electric at the bottom comes from a Walthers catalog  is numbered 5650  Gas Electric and has a 3 window panel door.       Where there two runs ?                       Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16818	From: railroadmodeler	Date: 6/15/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Gas Electric Doodlebug [1 Attachment] - side post about

Hmmm...apologies to all for the funky symbols in my post...I suspect that Yahoo's software encodes apostrophes differently than does my computer. I shall test this premise and may send one or two more posts to help me narrow down the cause. Please do not feel compelled to reply to these messages as they are *slightly* unrelated to this (or any other) thread. Extra apology sauce for those in Digest Mode. I appreciate your patience! Regards, Ken B -- Test message follows (I haven't lost my mind...as far as I'm aware) -- Sample 1, posted from groupsite: I don't 'understand' why my posts have funny "characters" in them but on my computer everything looks "fine''... --

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16819	From: jim heckard	Date: 6/15/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Gas Electric Doodlebug

 Hi Ken,       I really didn't look as close as you have at the difference in details. When I saw the different numbers and the difference in window panels I stopped trying to find more. I'll have to go over what you wrote but my poor eyes will make it hard. I have to look at the pictures and forget my gas electric engine which might be missing some of those details or have extra added on. If you would have see a before picture of it.                                                      Jim H ----- Original Message ----- From: Railroad Modeler To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2011 4:42 PM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Walthers Gas Electric Doodlebug   Hi Jim, I sure wish I could say for sure one way or the other, but the fact is I wasn’t even remotely involved with any of Walthers production runs. I did notice some differences between the two units. I’m sure others have seen them, I guess I just beat them to the keyboard! Based on differences in appearance between the two units, I think we are definitely looking at two different production runs. For clarity, I number parts starting at the front of the unit. Detail Parts: on the top unit, the rungs of the ladder that extend below the bodyline appear to be cast as part of the body (like I’m used to seeing on my AHM C-Liner) whereas the lower unit has wire pieces that look like something the modeler is to install during construction, specifically at the second door and third doors. The top unit has two panes in the first door but the lower unit has only one. Along the roof of the top unit the circulation vents are square, boxy things whereas on the lower unit they appear to be bump-outs in the roof. It is difficult to be sure, but it *appears* that the louvers between the second and third doors are different; the top unit has louvers, the bottom unit seems to have a pane of glass. Underbody: the top unit has some sort of skirt below the bodyline that runs from the front of the first door to just short of the second door, the lower unit has none. What I presume is the battery box is much bigger under the upper unit than under the lower one. The top unit has a different style of brake/cylinder rigging than the lower unit, and there are more pieces. The top unit does not have any underbody detail just fore of the aft truck but the bottom unit does. The lead truck on the top unit runs from just ahead of the first door to just ahead of the second door, and on the bottom unit it runs from just behind the front of the vehicle to just past the ladder rungs. My eyes are not calibrated, so it may just be that both lead trucks are the same size but is mounted forward on the bottom unit. Also the truck frames of the bottom unit appear to be different than those of the top unit. Roofline: it could just be a trick of lighting (at least, that’s what I’m gonna claim if I’m wrong) but the top unit appears to have a square profile where the roofline transitions to the rear bulkhead, while the bottom unit appears to have a pronounced rounded droop. Or I just need to visit my optometrist for a stronger prescription. I hope some of this is useful. Time to rest my eyes… Regards, Ken B From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jim heckard Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2011 12:39 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Walthers Gas Electric Doodlbug [1 Attachment] [Attachment(s) from jim heckard removed by Ken B :-) ]      The Gas Electric at the top of the picture from a Walthers book is numbered   6450 Gas Electric and has a 4 window panel door.    The Gas Electric at the bottom comes from a Walthers catalog  is numbered 5650  Gas Electric and has a 3 window panel door.     Where there two runs ?                     Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16820	From: Railroad Modeler	Date: 6/15/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Gas Electric Doodlebug [1 Attachment] - TEST post about

Please do not reply to this messages; this is a test. Apologies to those in Digest Mode. Test message follows (I haven't lost my mind...I just can’t remember where I put it) Regards,   Ken B   -- Sample 2, posted from email reply: I don’t ‘understand’ why my posts have funny “characters” in them but on my computer everything looks ‘’fine”... -- Sample 3, posted by email reply: I hope this isn’t going to “waste’’ everyone’s time… --   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of railroadmodeler Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2011 3:06 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Walthers Gas Electric Doodlebug [1 Attachment] - side post about funky chars -- Test message follows (I haven't lost my mind...as far as I'm aware) -- Sample 1, posted from groupsite: I don't 'understand' why my posts have funny "characters" in them but on my computer everything looks "fine''... --

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16821	From: jim heckard	Date: 6/15/2011
Subject: Walthers PUG passenger cars

Attachments : IMG_7140_8.JPG IMG_7139_7.JPG IMG_7138_6.JPG IMG_7137_5.JPG IMG_7136_4.JPG   Denny/ CWRAILMAN,            Here are pictures of the ends of each PUG passenger car box that you ask for. I included one of the top of a box. If these are a little to dark I will try to lighten but every time I use light above or the flash I get glare on the picture. Let me now.                                                 Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 16822	From: cwrailman	Date: 6/15/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers PUG passenger cars

Jim, Those are great and I will work with them sometime tomorrow as the rest of today is consumed by "real 1:1 chores". Thanks, Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > Denny/ CWRAILMAN, > > Here are pictures of the ends of each PUG passenger car box that you ask for. I included one of the top of a box. If these are a little to dark I will try to lighten but every time I use light above or the flash I get glare on the picture. Let me now. > > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16823	From: jim heckard	Date: 6/16/2011
Subject: Dens Hobby Shop

Denny /cwrailman,         Are you just looking for only Walthers Mint boxed passenger cars to put in Den's Hobby Shop or any manufacturer, any passenger car, steam or diesel engine in a box ?                                                       Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16824	From: cwrailman	Date: 6/16/2011
Subject: Re: Dens Hobby Shop

Jim, For now I'm just adding a few vintage kits that represent what one would see if they were in a hobby shop in the pre 1980 era. Until I figure out how this could work ( my puter programming skills are very limited) I am not adding a lot, just a few for testing purposes. I will be adding the images you sent later this morning. A few loco kits might be nice to go with the car kits. Maybe a few of the early plastic or metal car kits would be nice. I do not have any of those in my collection. If you go to my very first post on Dens Hobby Shop you'll see the premise for this virtual shop. It would be great to have as many kits represented as possible. A sort of virtual catalog of the history of the hobby as presented by the interests of the members of this board. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/message/16741 Now back to the shops, Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > > Denny /cwrailman, > > Are you just looking for only Walthers Mint boxed passenger cars to put in Den's Hobby Shop or any manufacturer, any passenger car, steam or diesel engine in a box ? > > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16825	From: jim heckard	Date: 6/16/2011
Subject: Re: Dens Hobby Shop

Hi Denny,         I am very limited in computer skills to help with that part. I'm sure there are some "experts" out there that could help.       As far as vintage trains I might be able to help with the virtual shop. I have an extensive collection made from 1936 - 1977. Many rare and hard to find. I have 175+ steam engines, 250 Diesels and about 400 passenger cars ( all different ). Many are in the boxes or I have SOME of the boxes for items I have on my shelves. Some are in kit form, many are factory assembled and a lot of them are mint. I will send some if wanted and time available.       I have been helping Larry Stevenson with his site  www.hoseeker.net    While I have sent much paperwork for the Literature section I am now more involved with sending individual pictures from my collection to the Gallery section. With the pictures now mostly posted I am going back and adding small descriptions below each picture. While a lot are done there is more to do and this is taking some time.                                                 Jim H           ----- Original Message ----- From: cwrailman To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2011 11:04 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Dens Hobby Shop   Jim, For now I'm just adding a few vintage kits that represent what one would see if they were in a hobby shop in the pre 1980 era. Until I figure out how this could work ( my puter programming skills are very limited) I am not adding a lot, just a few for testing purposes. I will be adding the images you sent later this morning. A few loco kits might be nice to go with the car kits. Maybe a few of the early plastic or metal car kits would be nice. I do not have any of those in my collection. If you go to my very first post on Dens Hobby Shop you'll see the premise for this virtual shop. It would be great to have as many kits represented as possible. A sort of virtual catalog of the history of the hobby as presented by the interests of the members of this board. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/message/16741 Now back to the shops, Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > > Denny /cwrailman, > > Are you just looking for only Walthers Mint boxed passenger cars to put in Den's Hobby Shop or any manufacturer, any passenger car, steam or diesel engine in a box ? > > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16826	From: jim heckard	Date: 6/16/2011
Subject: Walther's M-190 Shuttle Jack

Attachments : IMG_7146_2.JPG IMG_7141_1.JPG           Since some of the latest discussions centered on early Walthers items including  Passenger Cars, Gas Electric Doodlebugs there was also mention of the Walther's M-190 Shuttle Jack so I sent a picture of mine.      This item was not in the best of shape when bought but I have gone over it mechanically, lube and oil, along with painting and starting some decals. Every piece on this Shuttle Jack is original Walther's.                                               Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 16827	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 6/16/2011
Subject: Re: Walther's M-190 Shuttle Jack [2 Attachments]

Jim! I hope you are beginning to feel better..Hey!  I got one of those!  Cool! Sometimes I forget what some of this stuff was called...   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: jim heckard <jimheck@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, June 16, 2011 2:28:59 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Walther's M-190 Shuttle Jack [2 Attachments]             Since some of the latest discussions centered on early Walthers items including  Passenger Cars, Gas Electric Doodlebugs there was also mention of the Walther's M-190 Shuttle Jack so I sent a picture of mine.      This item was not in the best of shape when bought but I have gone over it mechanically, lube and oil, along with painting and starting some decals. Every piece on this Shuttle Jack is original Walther's.                                               Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16828	From: jim heckard	Date: 6/16/2011
Subject: Re: Walther's M-190 Shuttle Jack

 Sean,           That Shuttle Jack is a cute little odd piece. I think it was the Santa Fe that ran them and I've seen them painted silver with red and yellow noses.        I'm feeling much better. All the major test ( and I had a lot of them ) came out normal and all the blood work is good to.                                                       Jim H .    ----- Original Message ----- From: Sean Naylor To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2011 4:23 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Walther's M-190 Shuttle Jack   Jim! I hope you are beginning to feel better..Hey!  I got one of those!  Cool! Sometimes I forget what some of this stuff was called...   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: jim heckard <jimheck@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, June 16, 2011 2:28:59 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Walther's M-190 Shuttle Jack [2 Attachments]             Since some of the latest discussions centered on early Walthers items including  Passenger Cars, Gas Electric Doodlebugs there was also mention of the Walther's M-190 Shuttle Jack so I sent a picture of mine.      This item was not in the best of shape when bought but I have gone over it mechanically, lube and oil, along with painting and starting some decals. Every piece on this Shuttle Jack is original Walther's.                                               Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16829	From: cwrailman	Date: 6/16/2011
Subject: Re: Walther's M-190 Shuttle Jack

I might get stoned for asking this but .. Since many of the participants on this board seem to operate their vintage power units I am wondering, when you guys take the time to rebuild/rework these vintage models, do you install newer can motors so they will run better? Does doing so increase or decrease their value as a collectable? Would this model have the original Walthers drive with the spring belts and is it a single or dual spring belt design? Let the throwing begin . Retreating while ducking, Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > > > Since some of the latest discussions centered on early Walthers items including Passenger Cars, Gas Electric Doodlebugs there was also mention of the Walther's M-190 Shuttle Jack so I sent a picture of mine. > > This item was not in the best of shape when bought but I have gone over it mechanically, lube and oil, along with painting and starting some decals. Every piece on this Shuttle Jack is original Walther's. > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16830	From: Charlie	Date: 6/16/2011
Subject: Re: Dens Hobby Shop

Hi   Would someone mind attaching the file for Dens Virtual on the group files, and emailing to me .  I have tried several times to download but always comes up with a message in xl of data lost in transmission.  Use reply to sender on bottom of this email.   Thankyou   Charlie From: jim heckard Sent: Friday, June 17, 2011 6:01 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Dens Hobby Shop       Hi Denny,         I am very limited in computer skills to help with that part. I'm sure there are some "experts" out there that could help.       As far as vintage trains I might be able to help with the virtual shop. I have an extensive collection made from 1936 - 1977. Many rare and hard to find. I have 175+ steam engines, 250 Diesels and about 400 passenger cars ( all different ). Many are in the boxes or I have SOME of the boxes for items I have on my shelves. Some are in kit form, many are factory assembled and a lot of them are mint. I will send some if wanted and time available.       I have been helping Larry Stevenson with his site  www.hoseeker.net    While I have sent much paperwork for the Literature section I am now more involved with sending individual pictures from my collection to the Gallery section. With the pictures now mostly posted I am going back and adding small descriptions below each picture. While a lot are done there is more to do and this is taking some time.                                                 Jim H           ----- Original Message ----- From: cwrailman To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2011 11:04 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Dens Hobby Shop   Jim, For now I'm just adding a few vintage kits that represent what one would see if they were in a hobby shop in the pre 1980 era. Until I figure out how this could work ( my puter programming skills are very limited) I am not adding a lot, just a few for testing purposes. I will be adding the images you sent later this morning. A few loco kits might be nice to go with the car kits. Maybe a few of the early plastic or metal car kits would be nice. I do not have any of those in my collection. If you go to my very first post on Dens Hobby Shop you'll see the premise for this virtual shop. It would be great to have as many kits represented as possible. A sort of virtual catalog of the history of the hobby as presented by the interests of the members of this board. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/message/16741 Now back to the shops, Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > > Denny /cwrailman, > > Are you just looking for only Walthers Mint boxed passenger cars to put in Den's Hobby Shop or any manufacturer, any passenger car, steam or diesel engine in a box ? > > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16831	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 6/16/2011
Subject: What I've been doing lately

Attachments : MNR 64656.jpg GTW 583699.jpg Pretty much finished all my passenger car projects, have about 8 cars sitting on the shelf waiting for trucks, so I was getting bored. Dug around in the scrap box and came up with another old Comet GTW auto car that looked like it just could be salvageable. Fooled around with it a little and this is what I came up with. The other picture of the Milwaukee Northern car is not really "vintage", but it is something that most of today's "visa card modelers" would never think of trying. Living on a sort of fixed income these days, can't afford much anymore, so I got myself some Northeastern roof stock, a piece of basswood, a package of Tichy ladders, a bag of A-line hand grabs, some Silver Streak doors out of the scrap box and some Evergreen scribed siding. Figure I've got about five bucks invested, the most expensive thing is the couplers. Plus now there's supplies left to do about four more. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 16832	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 6/16/2011
Subject: Re: What I've been doing lately [2 Attachments]

Hi Don, I know you will do something really cool with the supplies you just picked up.  Will you tell us or surprise us when you are done?  We will love to see what you come up with. Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC Living on a sort of fixed income these days, can't afford much anymore, so I got myself some Northeastern roof stock, a piece of basswood, a package of Tichy ladders, a bag of A-line hand grabs, some Silver Streak doors out of the scrap box and some Evergreen scribed siding. Figure I've got about five bucks invested, the most expensive thing is the couplers. Plus now there's supplies left to do about four more. Don Don Dellmann   Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post | Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (1) Recent Activity: New Members 1 New Photos 2 New Files 1 Visit Your Group Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest • Unsubscribe • Terms of Use .

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16833	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 6/16/2011
Subject: Re: What I've been doing lately

Well, the first thing was that Milwaukee Northern double door box in the attachments. Don ----- Original Message ----- From: "Victor Bitleris" <bitlerisvj@...> To: <vintageho@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2011 9:50 PM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] What I've been doing lately Hi Don, I know you will do something really cool with the supplies you just picked up. Will you tell us or surprise us when you are done? We will love to see what you come up with. Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC Living on a sort of fixed income these days, can't afford much anymore, so I got myself some Northeastern roof stock, a piece of basswood, a package of Tichy ladders, a bag of A-line hand grabs, some Silver Streak doors out of the scrap box and some Evergreen scribed siding. Figure I've got about five bucks invested, the most expensive thing is the couplers. Plus now there's supplies left to do about four more. Don Don Dellmann Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post | Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (1) Recent Activity: New Members 1 New Photos 2 New Files 1 Visit Your Group Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest • Unsubscribe • Terms of Use .

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16834	From: jim heckard	Date: 6/17/2011
Subject: Re: Walther's M-190 Shuttle Jack

Can't speak for anyone else but I don't operate the vintage items in my collection except to test run them after I rebuild  them.  A lot of the vintage items are not perfect when found and are missing parts or needing cleaning, oil and lube.  I change nothing on  the items. Searching for the original parts can be a task and take time but I make them as original as possible as when first sold. Having or finding the plans a big plus  What motor was in them stays the same as does the drives. If the item ran bad when produced no upgrades are done to improve performance. My Walthers Shuttle Jack has the original motor and drive it was first made with.                                                   Jim H                                                                                          ----- Original Message ----- From: cwrailman To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2011 8:39 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Walther's M-190 Shuttle Jack   I might get stoned for asking this but .. Since many of the participants on this board seem to operate their vintage power units I am wondering, when you guys take the time to rebuild/rework these vintage models, do you install newer can motors so they will run better? Does doing so increase or decrease their value as a collectable? Would this model have the original Walthers drive with the spring belts and is it a single or dual spring belt design? Let the throwing begin . Retreating while ducking, Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > > > Since some of the latest discussions centered on early Walthers items including Passenger Cars, Gas Electric Doodlebugs there was also mention of the Walther's M-190 Shuttle Jack so I sent a picture of mine. > > This item was not in the best of shape when bought but I have gone over it mechanically, lube and oil, along with painting and starting some decals. Every piece on this Shuttle Jack is original Walther's. > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16835	From: ablecynic	Date: 6/17/2011
Subject: Re: Walther's M-190 Shuttle Jack

Jim, There was only one -- it was the M-190 and at the end of its career it ran between Carlsbad, NM and Clovis, NM on trains 25 and 26. It usually hauled a streamlined observation car. Here are some photos of it in the "Warbonnet" scheme: http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/Locopicture.aspx?id=56244 Cheers! Matt Coleman --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> wrote: > > Sean, > > That Shuttle Jack is a cute little odd piece. I think it was the Santa Fe that ran them and I've seen them painted silver with red and yellow noses. > > I'm feeling much better. All the major test ( and I had a lot of them ) came out normal and all the blood work is good to. > > Jim H .

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16836	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 6/17/2011
Subject: Re: What I've been doing lately

I did like that one,  it is came out very nice.  Keep up the good work. One day when I get my other projects cleared up, I will go the same route.  I have plenty of Northeastern wood, Silver Streak, Tichy, Branchline, etc. parts on hand to build lots of old time boxcars and reefers.  I just have way too many actual kits to build first.  :o) Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > From: don.dellmann@... > Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2011 21:55:26 -0500 > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] What I've been doing lately > > Well, the first thing was that Milwaukee Northern double door box in the > attachments. > > Don > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Victor Bitleris" <bitlerisvj@...> > To: <vintageho@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2011 9:50 PM > Subject: RE: [vintageHO] What I've been doing lately > > > > Hi Don, > I know you will do something really cool with the supplies you just picked > up. Will you tell us or surprise us when you are done? We will love to see > what you come up with. > Regards, > Vic Bitleris > Raleigh, NC > > > > > > Living on a sort of fixed income these days, can't afford much anymore, so I > > got myself some Northeastern roof stock, a piece of basswood, a package of > > Tichy ladders, a bag of A-line hand grabs, some Silver Streak doors out of > > the scrap box and some Evergreen scribed siding. Figure I've got about five > > bucks invested, the most expensive thing is the couplers. Plus now there's > > supplies left to do about four more. > > > > Don > > > > Don Dellmann > Reply to sender | > > Reply to group | > Reply via web post | > Start a New Topic > > > Messages in this topic > (1) > > > > > > > > Recent Activity: > > > > New Members > 1 > > > New Photos > 2 > > > New Files > 1 > > > > > Visit Your Group > > > > > > > Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest • Unsubscribe • Terms of Use > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ > > <*> Your email settings: > Individual Email | Traditional > > <*> To change settings online go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join > (Yahoo! ID required) > > <*> To change settings via email: > vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com > vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16837	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 6/17/2011
Subject: Lindsay Ghost boxcar.

Hi guys! I just acquired a mostly built kit in the box but it is missing the motor trucks and chassis. Would anyone happen to have pictures of these parts so that I may be able to see what I need to find for this vintage and rare car. I know asking if anyone has a junk one laying around might be a bit much to ask too, but if you do, I would be willing to trade or even pay or both more than fairly to get this rare car completed for my collection. I'll post pictures of what I have a little later. Thanks. Sean Sent from my iPhone

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16838	From: jim heckard	Date: 6/17/2011
Subject: Re: Walther's M-190 Shuttle Jack

Hi Matt,             Thanks for the information and pictures that there was only one real M-190. I didn't know that . Where I said " I've seen THEM painted silver"  I was talking about models that other people have sent me pictures of.                                              Jim H ----- Original Message ----- From: ablecynic To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, June 17, 2011 8:20 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Walther's M-190 Shuttle Jack   Jim, There was only one -- it was the M-190 and at the end of its career it ran between Carlsbad, NM and Clovis, NM on trains 25 and 26. It usually hauled a streamlined observation car. Here are some photos of it in the "Warbonnet" scheme: http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/Locopicture.aspx?id=56244 Cheers! Matt Coleman --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> wrote: > > Sean, > > That Shuttle Jack is a cute little odd piece. I think it was the Santa Fe that ran them and I've seen them painted silver with red and yellow noses. > > I'm feeling much better. All the major test ( and I had a lot of them ) came out normal and all the blood work is good to. > > Jim H .

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16839	From: Wally Weart	Date: 6/17/2011
Subject: Re: Walther's M-190 Shuttle Jack

Very nicely done Jim. I haven't seen one for years. Wally ======= Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. (Email Guard: 7.0.0.26, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.17740) http://www.pctools.com =======

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16840	From: jim heckard	Date: 6/17/2011
Subject: Re: Lindsay Ghost boxcar.

Hi Sean,           Go to HOseeker / Lindsay / Diagram-Part Numbers. Go Down list to Ghost Box Car 718 ( I think that number is wrong and should be 713 like instruction sheet.) Hope this helps you.. Instruction sheet with pictures comes up  L-713 Ghost Box Car.                                                                    Jim H ----- Original Message ----- From: Sean Naylor To: vintageho@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, June 17, 2011 9:48 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Lindsay Ghost boxcar.   Hi guys! I just acquired a mostly built kit in the box but it is missing the motor trucks and chassis. Would anyone happen to have pictures of these parts so that I may be able to see what I need to find for this vintage and rare car. I know asking if anyone has a junk one laying around might be a bit much to ask too, but if you do, I would be willing to trade or even pay or both more than fairly to get this rare car completed for my collection. I'll post pictures of what I have a little later. Thanks. Sean Sent from my iPhone

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16841	From: Mary Long	Date: 6/17/2011
Subject: Re: Walther's M-190 Shuttle Jack

Hey Sean , It gets to be more fun "remembering" the older you get !! Henry H.  --- On Thu, 6/16/11, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: From: Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Walther's M-190 Shuttle Jack To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, June 16, 2011, 11:23 PM   Jim! I hope you are beginning to feel better..Hey!  I got one of those!  Cool! Sometimes I forget what some of this stuff was called...   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: jim heckard <jimheck@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, June 16, 2011 2:28:59 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Walther's M-190 Shuttle Jack [2 Attachments]             Since some of the latest discussions centered on early Walthers items including  Passenger Cars, Gas Electric Doodlebugs there was also mention of the Walther's M-190 Shuttle Jack so I sent a picture of mine.      This item was not in the best of shape when bought but I have gone over it mechanically, lube and oil, along with painting and starting some decals. Every piece on this Shuttle Jack is original Walther's.                                               Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16842	From: Glenn	Date: 6/17/2011
Subject: Re: Walther's M-190 Shuttle Jack

I believe the4 M-190 is lat the Calif RR Museum in Sacramento--gj -----Original Message----- From: ablecynic Sent: Friday, June 17, 2011 5:20 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Walther's M-190 Shuttle Jack Jim, There was only one -- it was the M-190 and at the end of its career it ran between Carlsbad, NM and Clovis, NM on trains 25 and 26. It usually hauled a streamlined observation car. Here are some photos of it in the "Warbonnet" scheme: http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/Locopicture.aspx?id=56244 Cheers! Matt Coleman --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> wrote: > > Sean, > > That Shuttle Jack is a cute little odd piece. I think it was the > Santa Fe that ran them and I've seen them painted silver with red and > yellow noses. > > I'm feeling much better. All the major test ( and I had a lot of > them ) came out normal and all the blood work is good to. > > Jim H . ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16843	From: Wally Weart	Date: 6/17/2011
Subject: Repowering old equipment

I have a large number of original Suydam and Walthers interurbans which started life with 5 pole, open frame motors and as these have failed over the  years for one reason or another, I have been replacing them with can motors and a few Bull Ant power trucks. I operate all my cars from time to time and participate in a show in Milwaukee each fall. I am not likely to ever convert to DCC ( I think it is an underground plot to steal our minds :-D, certainly our money) but the new can motors operate so much better and are far more easily obtained. I also change to nickle silver wheels as I can. If I was more of a collector than an operator, I might think differently as I'm sure I have compromised the value by changing the old motors. My 2 cents Wally ======= Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. (Email Guard: 7.0.0.26, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.17740) http://www.pctools.com =======

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16844	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 6/17/2011
Subject: Re: Repowering old equipment

----- Original Message ----- From: "Wally Weart" <dim01521@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, June 17, 2011 1:25 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Repowering old equipment >I have a large number of original Suydam and Walthers interurbans > which started life with 5 pole, open frame motors and as these have > failed over the years for one reason or another, I have been > replacing them with can motors and a few Bull Ant power trucks. I > operate all my cars from time to time and participate in a show in > Milwaukee each fall. I am not likely to ever convert to DCC ( I think > it is an underground plot to steal our minds :-D, certainly our > money) but the new can motors operate so much better and are far more > easily obtained. I also change to nickle silver wheels as I can. > > If I was more of a collector than an operator, I might think > differently as I'm sure I have compromised the value by changing the > old motors. > > My 2 cents > > Wally Which club at Trainfest? (Cream City Traction here) Also, I RUN all my vintage, and if I get a Varney diecast F03 shell with the motor in pieces and missing three wheel sets I have no compunctions at all about plunking it down on an Athearn flywheel chassis. Afterall, the name of the group IS "Vintage HO OPERATORS" (although the collectors are more than welcome and we're thrilled to have them here) Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16845	From: John H	Date: 6/17/2011
Subject: Re: Repowering old equipment

I feel the biggest value of such models is the personal value to the owner. Apparently, the main value to you is smooth, quiet and reliable operation of your models. Something I personally agree with. Now Jim has a very well done museum of HO trains. He is interested in getting them to run, if possible, using the original drive train, but his main interest is restoring them to their as new appearance. Or building old kits up into completed models. I have several restoration projects sitting here to be done and while the proper appearance of the restored equipment is definitely of importance, I will also go a step or two further to improve them. For instance, I have several Mantua 0-4-0 and 0-6-0 models (both tendered and tenderless) and I will add valve gear to them. Same thing with my new-in-the-box diecast Varney dockside kit. In fact, since I am a fan of the B&O, I will probably add much other detail. I'd rather detail an old diecast loco than buy a brass model with similar levels of detail. It's all in what pleases you. Of course, if I had an original Lionel 700E, I'd just dust it off and put it on the shelf. But that's the exception. John Hagen --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Wally Weart <dim01521@...> wrote: > > [Unknown Content-Transfer-Encoding: ] > > I have a large number of original Suydam and Walthers interurbans > which started life with 5 pole, open frame motors and as these have > failed over the years for one reason or another, I have been > replacing them with can motors and a few Bull Ant power trucks. I > operate all my cars from time to time and participate in a show in > Milwaukee each fall. I am not likely to ever convert to DCC ( I think > it is an underground plot to steal our minds :-D, certainly our > money) but the new can motors operate so much better and are far more > easily obtained. I also change to nickle silver wheels as I can. > > If I was more of a collector than an operator, I might think > differently as I'm sure I have compromised the value by changing the > old motors. > > My 2 cents > > Wally > > > > ======= > Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. > (Email Guard: 7.0.0.26, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.17740) > http://www.pctools.com/ > ======= >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16846	From: jake_iv@juno.com	Date: 6/17/2011
Subject: Re: Mantua valve gear

Just a side note - Mantua did make a kit to install "full" valve gear on the 0-4-0 and 0-6-0 models, ( Mantua no.754 Valve Gear Kit).  As I recall, originally the kit included parts for both the 0-4-0 and 0-6-0,  I think I saw on Model Power that currently it only includes parts for the 0-6-0. However - Bowser did, maybe does, produce the Varney/English style valve gear that fits the "Yard Bird" and the "Docksider".  If you have or can get one of the older Bowser manuals/catalogs it includes a full size drawing of each part used in the various valve gears.  I have been able to use the Bowser parts to repair/restore valve gear on locos from almost every manufacturer.  Admittedly some of the pieces may not be an exact match but I can usually get close enough that a few strokes from a file makes it very close. Jake Bechtel Gadsden, AL

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16847	From: Wobbly913	Date: 6/17/2011
Subject: Re: Walther's M-190 Shuttle Jack

Yes, the M190  was at the California State Railroad Museum.  CSRM did not have it on display there and had no real plan for it.  The governor of NM asked the then governor of CA for it and his request was granted. Sorry, I don't have the rest of the particulars on the return to NM. Wobbly913   Don --- On Fri, 6/17/11, Glenn <glenn476@...> wrote: From: Glenn <glenn476@...> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Walther's M-190 Shuttle Jack To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, June 17, 2011, 9:43 AM I believe the4  M-190 is lat the Calif RR Museum in Sacramento--gj -----Original Message----- From: ablecynic Sent: Friday, June 17, 2011 5:20 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Walther's M-190 Shuttle Jack Jim, There was only one -- it was the M-190 and at the end of its career it ran between Carlsbad, NM and Clovis, NM on trains 25 and 26. It usually hauled a streamlined observation car. Here are some photos of it in the "Warbonnet" scheme: http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/Locopicture.aspx?id=56244 Cheers! Matt Coleman --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> wrote: > > Sean, > >         That Shuttle Jack is a cute little odd piece. I think it was the > Santa Fe that ran them and I've seen them painted silver with red and > yellow noses. > >      I'm feeling much better. All the major test ( and I had a lot of > them ) came out normal and all the blood work is good to. > >                                                     Jim H . ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings:     Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join     (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email:     vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com     vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:     vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16848	From: ablecynic	Date: 6/18/2011
Subject: Re: Walther's M-190 Shuttle Jack

Jim, My apologies, I misinterpreted your comment but glad the link was of interest. The only other Shuttle Jacks I have seen have been posts on this group so if anyone has done one in the Warbonnet scheme I would love to see it! I have a couple of the EMC Railcar kits that I plan to build but will use a more modern drive just for convenience since the originals are hard to find. Matt Coleman --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> wrote: > > Hi Matt, > > > Thanks for the information and pictures that there was only one real M-190. I didn't know that . Where I said " I've seen THEM painted silver" I was talking about models that other people have sent me pictures of. > > Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16849	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 6/18/2011
Subject: Re: Walther's M-190 Shuttle Jack

Here is a link to the real one in silver. http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/atsf/atsf-M190jpa.jpg There are a few more at this site. Take care,   Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ablecynic Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2011 8:29 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Walther's M-190 Shuttle Jack     Jim, My apologies, I misinterpreted your comment but glad the link was of interest. The only other Shuttle Jacks I have seen have been posts on this group so if anyone has done one in the Warbonnet scheme I would love to see it! I have a couple of the EMC Railcar kits that I plan to build but will use a more modern drive just for convenience since the originals are hard to find. Matt Coleman --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> wrote: > > Hi Matt, > > > Thanks for the information and pictures that there was only one real M-190. I didn't know that . Where I said " I've seen THEM painted silver" I was talking about models that other people have sent me pictures of. > > Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16850	From: Denny Anspach	Date: 6/18/2011
Subject: Re: Walther's M-190 Shuttle Jack

There was only one -- it was the M-190 and at the end of its career it ran between Carlsbad, NM and Clovis, NM on trains 25 and 26. It usually hauled a  streamlined observation car. I believe the4  M-190 is lat the Calif RR Museum in Sacramento Yes, the M190  was at the California State Railroad Museum.  CSRM did not have it on display there and had no real plan for it.  The governor of NM asked the then governor of CA for it and his request was granted.  All true. The M190 originally came to the California State Railroad Museum by default when the ATSF abruptly closed their collection of historic collection of motive power many years ago. Historically, the car never otherwise had California connections.   It was and is a really neat piece of equipment, and there were not a few of us who had heartburn about repatriating it to the land where it spent the bulk of its life. Nevertheless, I was one of those required to sign off on the M190's  return to New Mexico, and so I did.  Although my information may be quite outdated, the last I heard they were apparently still on the flat cars on which they had been transported. Denny

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16851	From: jim heckard	Date: 6/18/2011
Subject: Re: Walther's M-190 Shuttle Jack

Matt,       No apology needed. It's hard  in an email to project an exact meaning in a few words.      I have a friend in Playa Del Rey , Jeff, who is not a member but had sent me a picture of his Walthers M-190 Shuttle Jack done in Santa Fe livery ( Silver ) with the War Bonnet nose. I'm going to try to get him to send some pictures to me of his model.                                                           Jim H ----- Original Message ----- From: ablecynic To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2011 8:29 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Walther's M-190 Shuttle Jack   Jim, My apologies, I misinterpreted your comment but glad the link was of interest. The only other Shuttle Jacks I have seen have been posts on this group so if anyone has done one in the Warbonnet scheme I would love to see it! I have a couple of the EMC Railcar kits that I plan to build but will use a more modern drive just for convenience since the originals are hard to find. Matt Coleman --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> wrote: > > Hi Matt, > > > Thanks for the information and pictures that there was only one real M-190. I didn't know that . Where I said " I've seen THEM painted silver" I was talking about models that other people have sent me pictures of. > > Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16852	From: Rick Jones	Date: 6/18/2011
Subject: New Old Stuff

Attachments : South Ridge 517-3.jpg South Ridge 517-2.jpg The LSR Convention was held last weekend in Lubbock, TX. I came away the winner (well...actually the sole bidder) in the silent auction of 3 locomotives from the late Dean Freytag's layout. I reckon the 2 Atlas SD24s are of little interest to this group, though I note the covers on the bottoms of the trucks say Made In Austria and I'm curious when Atlas was producing their products there. Of more relevance to this group I suppose is the brass FM Trainmaster from Red Ball. The 3rd edition of The Brown Book notes that Red Ball imported these in 1968, manufactured by KMT. There's even a photo of the model in the book. That photo shows what is either a handrail or a radio antenna along the top of the loco. As you can see in the attached photos that has either been removed by Dean for his railroad or was never there on this model. I don't see any indications on this model of anything having been removed from the roof. -- Rick Jones "I've noticed that the press tends to be quite accurate, except when they're writing on a subject I know something about." -Keith F. Lynch

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 16853	From: John H	Date: 6/18/2011
Subject: Re: New Old Stuff

Nice buy Rick. The antenna that resembled a handrail was on the Pennsylvania prototype models only. Pennsy was an early user of radios and they used a system where the signal was carried in a cable alongside the tracks. They used those long antennae to pick up the signal by induction. Red Ball likely imported both. It was quite common in the early days of the hobby through the 60's to do Pennsy prototype model as they were "The standard of the world" and quite recognizable and popular, in the model railroad world. Also so you will note the popularity of New York Central. Almost every model company did a model of the famous NYC Hudson. Yours is the more "generic" model. Actually, so was the Pennsy version except for the antenna. John Hagen --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Rick Jones <r.t.jones@...> wrote: > > The LSR Convention was held last weekend in Lubbock, TX. I came away > the winner (well...actually the sole bidder) in the silent auction of 3 > locomotives from the late Dean Freytag's layout. I reckon the 2 Atlas > SD24s are of little interest to this group, though I note the covers on > the bottoms of the trucks say Made In Austria and I'm curious when Atlas > was producing their products there. > Of more relevance to this group I suppose is the brass FM > Trainmaster from Red Ball. The 3rd edition of The Brown Book notes that > Red Ball imported these in 1968, manufactured by KMT. There's even a > photo of the model in the book. That photo shows what is either a > handrail or a radio antenna along the top of the loco. As you can see in > the attached photos that has either been removed by Dean for his > railroad or was never there on this model. I don't see any indications > on this model of anything having been removed from the roof. > > -- > > Rick Jones > > "I've noticed that the press tends to be quite accurate, except when > they're writing on a subject I know something about." > -Keith F. Lynch >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16854	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 6/18/2011
Subject: Re: New Old Stuff [2 Attachments]

The trainmaster question has been answered, but as far as the Atlas, the first Atlas locomotives were made in the mid 1970's by Roco. They were nice runners but a bear to mount Kadees. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rick Jones" <r.t.jones@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2011 5:04 PM Subject: [vintageHO] New Old Stuff [2 Attachments] > The LSR Convention was held last weekend in Lubbock, TX. I came away > the winner (well...actually the sole bidder) in the silent auction of 3 > locomotives from the late Dean Freytag's layout. I reckon the 2 Atlas > SD24s are of little interest to this group, though I note the covers on > the bottoms of the trucks say Made In Austria and I'm curious when Atlas > was producing their products there. > Of more relevance to this group I suppose is the brass FM > Trainmaster from Red Ball. The 3rd edition of The Brown Book notes that > Red Ball imported these in 1968, manufactured by KMT. There's even a > photo of the model in the book. That photo shows what is either a > handrail or a radio antenna along the top of the loco. As you can see in > the attached photos that has either been removed by Dean for his > railroad or was never there on this model. I don't see any indications > on this model of anything having been removed from the roof. > > -- > > Rick Jones > > "I've noticed that the press tends to be quite accurate, except when > they're writing on a subject I know something about." > -Keith F. Lynch > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16855	From: Rick Jones	Date: 6/18/2011
Subject: Re: New Old Stuff

On 6/18/2011 8:10 PM, Don Dellmann wrote: > The trainmaster question has been answered, but as far as the Atlas, the > first Atlas locomotives were made in the mid 1970's by Roco. They were nice > runners but a bear to mount Kadees. Yes, I can see that. The Kadees on these two SD24s aren't mounted with the draft gear, but just a screw through the hole in the shaft to the mounting post for the old horn hook coupler. I'm a bit surprised that an MMR like Dean Freytag would do something so amateurish. -- Rick Jones After you've heard two eyewitness accounts of an accident you start to worry about history.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16856	From: Rick Jones	Date: 6/18/2011
Subject: Re: New Old Stuff

On 6/18/2011 6:53 PM, John H wrote: > Nice buy Rick. > > The antenna that resembled a handrail was on the Pennsylvania > prototype models only. Pennsy was an early user of radios and they > used a system where the signal was carried in a cable alongside the > tracks. They used those long antennae to pick up the signal by > induction. > > Red Ball likely imported both. It was quite common in the early days > of the hobby through the 60's to do Pennsy prototype model as they > were "The standard of the world" and quite recognizable and popular, > in the model railroad world. Also so you will note the popularity of > New York Central. Almost every model company did a model of the > famous NYC Hudson. > > Yours is the more "generic" model. Actually, so was the Pennsy > version except for the antenna. The Brown Book says Red Ball imported 1500 of these in 1968. I imagine with that volume they probably did have some variations available. I wonder what current productions runs of brass models are? Nowhere near what they used to do I've heard. -- Rick Jones Hat Check Girl: "Goodness, what beautiful diamonds." Maudie Triplett: "Goodness had nothing to do with it." -"Night After Night"

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16857	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 6/19/2011
Subject: Re: New Old Stuff

----- Original Message ----- From: "Rick Jones" <r.t.jones@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2011 9:14 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] New Old Stuff > On 6/18/2011 8:10 PM, Don Dellmann wrote: >> The trainmaster question has been answered, but as far as the Atlas, the >> first Atlas locomotives were made in the mid 1970's by Roco. They were >> nice >> runners but a bear to mount Kadees. > > Yes, I can see that. The Kadees on these two SD24s aren't mounted > with the draft gear, but just a screw through the hole in the shaft to > the mounting post for the old horn hook coupler. I'm a bit surprised > that an MMR like Dean Freytag would do something so amateurish. > > -- > > Rick Jones That's the way mine were mounted too. There was no room in there to do anything else. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16858	From: ablecynic	Date: 6/19/2011
Subject: Re: Walther's M-190 Shuttle Jack

Jim, Thanks! I have mine about 50% restored and was pondering painting it in the Green scheme but your comments got me to think about doing it in the Warbonnet scheme. I have some of the 'correct' brass models, but the Shuttle Jack is a bit more fun. Matt --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> wrote: > > Matt, > > No apology needed. It's hard in an email to project an exact meaning in a few words. > > I have a friend in Playa Del Rey , Jeff, who is not a member but had sent me a picture of his Walthers M-190 Shuttle Jack done in Santa Fe livery ( Silver ) with the War Bonnet nose. I'm going to try to get him to send some pictures to me of his model. > > Jim H > ----- Original Message ----- > From: ablecynic > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2011 8:29 AM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Walther's M-190 Shuttle Jack > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16859	From: jim heckard	Date: 6/19/2011
Subject: Re: Walther's M-190 Shuttle Jack

Matt,          Good luck with your paint job. I'm sure you see there are pictures of the real thing to go by. My friend Jeff who has a Walther's Shuttle Jack painted Santa Fe Silver / War Bonnet has not answered my request for picture(s) of his model for you to use. If / when I get them I'll pass them onto you.                                                        Jim H ----- Original Message ----- From: ablecynic To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 7:58 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Walther's M-190 Shuttle Jack   Jim, Thanks! I have mine about 50% restored and was pondering painting it in the Green scheme but your comments got me to think about doing it in the Warbonnet scheme. I have some of the 'correct' brass models, but the Shuttle Jack is a bit more fun. Matt --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> wrote: > > Matt, > > No apology needed. It's hard in an email to project an exact meaning in a few words. > > I have a friend in Playa Del Rey , Jeff, who is not a member but had sent me a picture of his Walthers M-190 Shuttle Jack done in Santa Fe livery ( Silver ) with the War Bonnet nose. I'm going to try to get him to send some pictures to me of his model. > > Jim H > ----- Original Message ----- > From: ablecynic > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2011 8:29 AM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Walther's M-190 Shuttle Jack > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16860	From: Gerold Eckl	Date: 6/19/2011
Subject: Re: Walther's M-190 Shuttle Jack

On 6/19/2011 5:12 PM, jim heckard wrote:   Matt,          Good luck with your paint job. I'm sure you see there are pictures of the real thing to go by. My friend Jeff who has a Walther's Shuttle Jack painted Santa Fe Silver / War Bonnet has not answered my request for picture(s) of his model for you to use. If / when I get them I'll pass them onto you.     I have a Hallmark ATSF M-190 painted Warbonnet Red Silver , and a number of prototype pictures. If anybody wants to have pictures of Prototype or model let me know. Gerold

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16861	From: tomvanhoy	Date: 6/19/2011
Subject: Walther's shuttle jack

Hi all, I appreciate the info on the shuttle jack. I have a different problem with the one I have. The powered truck is slowly cracking & will eventually fall apart. The usual problem with incompatible metals. What would anyone suggest to replace it with? I hope for something pretty easy to install that doesn't include a lot of chopping to fit, hopefully. Thanks for any help, Tom VH

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16862	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 6/19/2011
Subject: Re: Walther's shuttle jack

What size wheels and what is the wheelbase of the power truck? The first thing that comes to mind may be a bit small. The Bachmann PCC power truck. Available for $12.50 with the new can motor design. Best to ya, Mike Bauers Milwaukee, Wi On Jun 19, 2011, at 12:00 PM, tomvanhoy wrote: > Hi all, > I appreciate the info on the shuttle jack. I have a different > problem with the one I have. The powered truck is slowly cracking & > will eventually fall apart. The usual problem with incompatible > metals. What would anyone suggest to replace it with? I hope for > something pretty easy to install that doesn't include a lot of > chopping to fit, hopefully. > Thanks for any help, > Tom VH

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16863	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 6/20/2011
Subject: Re: Walther's shuttle jack

7' wheelbase, 36" wheels. The original power truck from the two motor Botchman 44 tonner is the right size (like I did with my Electroliner and my Walthers North Shore combine), but they require a lot of modification to mount, which is one thing Tom said he didn't want to do. The NWSL PDT's would have been perfect if they still made them, Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Bauers" <mwbauers55@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 11:26 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Walther's shuttle jack > What size wheels and what is the wheelbase of the power truck? > > The first thing that comes to mind may be a bit small. The Bachmann > PCC power truck. Available for $12.50 with the new can motor design. > > Best to ya, > Mike Bauers > Milwaukee, Wi > > On Jun 19, 2011, at 12:00 PM, tomvanhoy wrote: > >> Hi all, >> I appreciate the info on the shuttle jack. I have a different >> problem with the one I have. The powered truck is slowly cracking & >> will eventually fall apart. The usual problem with incompatible >> metals. What would anyone suggest to replace it with? I hope for >> something pretty easy to install that doesn't include a lot of >> chopping to fit, hopefully. >> Thanks for any help, >> Tom VH > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16864	From: ablecynic	Date: 6/20/2011
Subject: Re: Walther's shuttle jack

I agree with Mike's suggestion. I powered my Shuttle Jack with one half of a Bachman GE 44T drive (the only double-motor variants) and while it runs well, the new PCC truck is better and the wheels are closer to the correct size. Matt --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote: > > What size wheels and what is the wheelbase of the power truck? > > The first thing that comes to mind may be a bit small. The Bachmann > PCC power truck. Available for $12.50 with the new can motor design. > > Best to ya, > Mike Bauers > Milwaukee, Wi >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16865	From: Glenn	Date: 6/20/2011
Subject: Re: Walther's shuttle jack

Two possiblesd with better wheelbase--the "Bull Ant" from Oz--you can specify wheelbase and diameter--and the booster truck from Coach Yard--they make it to help pull the longer strings of brass passenger cars where a helper loco wouldn't be appropriate. Others have used the guts from a Bachmann doodlebug--gj -----Original Message----- From: Don Dellmann Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 4:06 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Walther's shuttle jack 7' wheelbase, 36" wheels. The original power truck from the two motor Botchman 44 tonner is the right size (like I did with my Electroliner and my Walthers North Shore combine), but they require a lot of modification to mount, which is one thing Tom said he didn't want to do. The NWSL PDT's would have been perfect if they still made them, Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Bauers" <mwbauers55@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 11:26 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Walther's shuttle jack > What size wheels and what is the wheelbase of the power truck? > > The first thing that comes to mind may be a bit small. The Bachmann > PCC power truck. Available for $12.50 with the new can motor design. > > Best to ya, > Mike Bauers > Milwaukee, Wi > > On Jun 19, 2011, at 12:00 PM, tomvanhoy wrote: > >> Hi all, >> I appreciate the info on the shuttle jack. I have a different >> problem with the one I have. The powered truck is slowly cracking & >> will eventually fall apart. The usual problem with incompatible >> metals. What would anyone suggest to replace it with? I hope for >> something pretty easy to install that doesn't include a lot of >> chopping to fit, hopefully. >> Thanks for any help, >> Tom VH > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16866	From: jake_iv@juno.com	Date: 6/20/2011
Subject: Re: NWSL PDT drive

My last com with NWSL indicated that they are producing a replacement for the PDT in several wheelbase and wheel diameters and tread widths.  I have found that a phone call is usually very helpful. Jake Bechtel Gadsden, AL

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16867	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 6/20/2011
Subject: Re: Walther's shuttle jack

Have you folks seen the new Brill/PCC drives? http://estore.bachmanntrains.com/images/ho_parts/H610X-OOAO1-1.jpg http://estore.bachmanntrains.com/images/ho_parts/H610X-OOAO1-2.jpg $12.50 for us more frugal modelers. The PDT drives are back with new motor and components......... and upgraded tech. http://www.nwsl.com/motors-power-drives/stanton-drive They cost a bit more. But are completely under the level of the inner floor in most cases. Best to ya, Mike Bauers Milwaukee, Wi On Jun 20, 2011, at 6:21 AM, ablecynic wrote: > I agree with Mike's suggestion. I powered my Shuttle Jack with one > half of a Bachman GE 44T drive (the only double-motor variants) and > while it runs well, the new PCC truck is better and the wheels are > closer to the correct size. > > Matt > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote: >> >> What size wheels and what is the wheelbase of the power truck? >> >> The first thing that comes to mind may be a bit small. The Bachmann >> PCC power truck. Available for $12.50 with the new can motor design.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16868	From: tomvanhoy	Date: 6/20/2011
Subject: shuttle jack stuff

Thanks for all the possibilities to remotor the shuttle jack. Much appreciated. Best to all, Tom VH

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16869	From: cwrailman	Date: 6/20/2011
Subject: Re: Walther's shuttle jack

Mike, Those Bachman drives look interesting. What are they out of?? How do they run? How big is that motor? Now back to my grilling. Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote: > > Have you folks seen the new Brill/PCC drives? > > http://estore.bachmanntrains.com/images/ho_parts/H610X-OOAO1-1.jpg > http://estore.bachmanntrains.com/images/ho_parts/H610X-OOAO1-2.jpg > > $12.50 for us more frugal modelers. > > The PDT drives are back with new motor and components......... and > upgraded tech. > > http://www.nwsl.com/motors-power-drives/stanton-drive > > They cost a bit more. But are completely under the level of the inner > floor in most cases. > > Best to ya, > Mike Bauers > Milwaukee, Wi > > On Jun 20, 2011, at 6:21 AM, ablecynic wrote: > > > I agree with Mike's suggestion. I powered my Shuttle Jack with one > > half of a Bachman GE 44T drive (the only double-motor variants) and > > while it runs well, the new PCC truck is better and the wheels are > > closer to the correct size. > > > > Matt > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@> wrote: > >> > >> What size wheels and what is the wheelbase of the power truck? > >> > >> The first thing that comes to mind may be a bit small. The Bachmann > >> PCC power truck. Available for $12.50 with the new can motor design. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16870	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 6/20/2011
Subject: Re: Walther's shuttle jack

Eighty-Five bucks is more than a "bit more" than $ 12.50. Don ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Bauers" <mwbauers55@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 6:24 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Walther's shuttle jack > Have you folks seen the new Brill/PCC drives? > > http://estore.bachmanntrains.com/images/ho_parts/H610X-OOAO1-1.jpg > http://estore.bachmanntrains.com/images/ho_parts/H610X-OOAO1-2.jpg > > $12.50 for us more frugal modelers. > > The PDT drives are back with new motor and components......... and > upgraded tech. > > http://www.nwsl.com/motors-power-drives/stanton-drive > > They cost a bit more. But are completely under the level of the inner > floor in most cases. > > Best to ya, > Mike Bauers > Milwaukee, Wi > > On Jun 20, 2011, at 6:21 AM, ablecynic wrote: > >> I agree with Mike's suggestion. I powered my Shuttle Jack with one >> half of a Bachman GE 44T drive (the only double-motor variants) and >> while it runs well, the new PCC truck is better and the wheels are >> closer to the correct size. >> >> Matt >> >> --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote: >>> >>> What size wheels and what is the wheelbase of the power truck? >>> >>> The first thing that comes to mind may be a bit small. The Bachmann >>> PCC power truck. Available for $12.50 with the new can motor design. > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16871	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 6/20/2011
Subject: Re: Walther's shuttle jack

Attachments : photo.JPG Well, They run better than the old ones do. They are in the HO Brill and PCC trolleys I'll attach a fresh snap of one in the Brill floor with a dime next to it. Best to ya, Mike Bauers Milwaukee, Wi On Jun 20, 2011, at 9:19 PM, cwrailman wrote: > Mike, > > Those Bachman drives look interesting. What are they out of?? How > do they run? How big is that motor? > > Now back to my grilling. > > Denny

@@attachment@@

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16872	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 6/20/2011
Subject: MR cd's

So........... How many folks are giving serious thought to one day, sorta soon, getting the recently announced full set of MR on cd ??? I'm one of them. Best to Ya, Mike Bauers Milwaukee, Wi

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16873	From: John H	Date: 6/20/2011
Subject: Re: MR cd's

Great. Then I can borrow them. John Hagen --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote: > > So........... > > How many folks are giving serious thought to one day, sorta soon, > getting the recently announced full set of MR on cd ??? > > I'm one of them. > > Best to Ya, > Mike Bauers > Milwaukee, Wi >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16874	From: John H	Date: 6/20/2011
Subject: Re: MR cd's

Seriously, I will most likely get a set. John Hagen --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote: > > So........... > > How many folks are giving serious thought to one day, sorta soon, > getting the recently announced full set of MR on cd ??? > > I'm one of them. > > Best to Ya, > Mike Bauers > Milwaukee, Wi >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16875	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 6/21/2011
Subject: Re: MR cd's

I am going to seriously consider it.  If the proper licensing is in place for me to re-install it on another computer, for instance if the hd crashes or in the case of a replacement computer, then I will likely purchase the CD.  If it is a one-time and your done install, hmmm, I am not so sure. Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: mwbauers55@... Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 23:31:37 -0500 Subject: [vintageHO] MR cd's   So........... How many folks are giving serious thought to one day, sorta soon, getting the recently announced full set of MR on cd ??? I'm one of them. Best to Ya, Mike Bauers Milwaukee, Wi

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16876	From: Gary Woodard	Date: 6/21/2011
Subject: Re: MR cd's

Hi Vic,   Software like that doesn't carry the same kind of license you would get with a Windows CD, or now a days, DVD! You can probably install it on as many computers as you own. And if you can't, then Kalmbach can keep it!   Gary W       Click HERE http://www.eeinternational.org/pages/page.asp?page_id=31469 to answer life's two most important questions! From: Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> To: vintageho@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 8:20 AM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] MR cd's   I am going to seriously consider it.  If the proper licensing is in place for me to re-install it on another computer, for instance if the hd crashes or in the case of a replacement computer, then I will likely purchase the CD.  If it is a one-time and your done install, hmmm, I am not so sure. Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: mwbauers55@... Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 23:31:37 -0500 Subject: [vintageHO] MR cd's   So........... How many folks are giving serious thought to one day, sorta soon, getting the recently announced full set of MR on cd ??? I'm one of them. Best to Ya, Mike Bauers Milwaukee, Wi

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16877	From: cwrailman	Date: 6/21/2011
Subject: Re: MR cd's

If the MR reference CD is like some of the reference materials I use professionally, while it can be used in any puter, to use the product the original CD must be in the CD/DVD drive. On to the shops. Denny Janitor in Trainng CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Gary Woodard <betsy662@...> wrote: > > Hi Vic, >   > Software like that doesn't carry the same kind of license you would get with a Windows CD, or now a days, DVD! You can probably install it on as many computers as you own. And if you can't, then Kalmbach can keep it! >   > Gary W >   >   > > Click HERE http://www.eeinternational.org/pages/page.asp?page_id=31469 to answer life's two most important questions! > > From: Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> > To: vintageho@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 8:20 AM > Subject: RE: [vintageHO] MR cd's > > >   > I am going to seriously consider it.  If the proper licensing is in place for me to re-install it on another computer, for instance if the hd crashes or in the case of a replacement computer, then I will likely purchase the CD.  If it is a one-time and your done install, hmmm, I am not so sure. > > Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC > > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > From: mwbauers55@... > Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 23:31:37 -0500 > Subject: [vintageHO] MR cd's > >   > So........... > > How many folks are giving serious thought to one day, sorta soon, > getting the recently announced full set of MR on cd ??? > > I'm one of them. > > Best to Ya, > Mike Bauers > Milwaukee, Wi >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16878	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 6/21/2011
Subject: Re: MR cd's

Pre-ordered it. Also bought Natl. Geographic complete. Things like this are marvelous IMHO. [I know many have various doubts. I have none!] Loads of searchable info, with pix. Take little space. Had to trash most of the paper mags when I moved. Couldn't even give them away ... even to avid model railroaders! Would be nice to see entire MM on DVD! On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 12:31 AM, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote:   So........... How many folks are giving serious thought to one day, sorta soon, getting the recently announced full set of MR on cd ??? I'm one of them. Best to Ya, Mike Bauers Milwaukee, Wi -- Regards, Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16879	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 6/21/2011
Subject: Re: MR cd's

If that is the case, I am ok with it. Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: cwrailman@... Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 14:34:45 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Re: MR cd's   If the MR reference CD is like some of the reference materials I use professionally, while it can be used in any puter, to use the product the original CD must be in the CD/DVD drive. On to the shops. Denny Janitor in Trainng CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Gary Woodard <betsy662@...> wrote: > > Hi Vic, >   > Software like that doesn't carry the same kind of license you would get with a Windows CD, or now a days, DVD! You can probably install it on as many computers as you own. And if you can't, then Kalmbach can keep it! >   > Gary W >   >   > > Click HERE http://www.eeinternational.org/pages/page.asp?page_id=31469 to answer life's two most important questions! > > From: Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> > To: vintageho@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 8:20 AM > Subject: RE: [vintageHO] MR cd's > > >   > I am going to seriously consider it.  If the proper licensing is in place for me to re-install it on another computer, for instance if the hd crashes or in the case of a replacement computer, then I will likely purchase the CD.  If it is a one-time and your done install, hmmm, I am not so sure. > > Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC > > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > From: mwbauers55@... > Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 23:31:37 -0500 > Subject: [vintageHO] MR cd's > >   > So........... > > How many folks are giving serious thought to one day, sorta soon, > getting the recently announced full set of MR on cd ??? > > I'm one of them. > > Best to Ya, > Mike Bauers > Milwaukee, Wi >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16880	From: Gary Woodard	Date: 6/21/2011
Subject: Re: MR cd's

A few years ago, I had purchased a compilation CD of O Scale Railroading, which included all of the issues from No.1 to No.95, or something close to that, yes, even then you had to have the CD in the drive to view the issues.   Gary W       Click HERE http://www.eeinternational.org/pages/page.asp?page_id=31469 to answer life's two most important questions! From: Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> To: vintageho@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 11:17 AM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: MR cd's   If that is the case, I am ok with it. Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: cwrailman@... Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 14:34:45 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Re: MR cd's   If the MR reference CD is like some of the reference materials I use professionally, while it can be used in any puter, to use the product the original CD must be in the CD/DVD drive. On to the shops. Denny Janitor in Trainng CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Gary Woodard <betsy662@...> wrote: > > Hi Vic, >   > Software like that doesn't carry the same kind of license you would get with a Windows CD, or now a days, DVD! You can probably install it on as many computers as you own. And if you can't, then Kalmbach can keep it! >   > Gary W >   >   > > Click HERE http://www.eeinternational.org/pages/page.asp?page_id=31469 to answer life's two most important questions! > > From: Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> > To: vintageho@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 8:20 AM > Subject: RE: [vintageHO] MR cd's > > >   > I am going to seriously consider it.  If the proper licensing is in place for me to re-install it on another computer, for instance if the hd crashes or in the case of a replacement computer, then I will likely purchase the CD.  If it is a one-time and your done install, hmmm, I am not so sure. > > Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC > > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > From: mwbauers55@... > Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 23:31:37 -0500 > Subject: [vintageHO] MR cd's > >   > So........... > > How many folks are giving serious thought to one day, sorta soon, > getting the recently announced full set of MR on cd ??? > > I'm one of them. > > Best to Ya, > Mike Bauers > Milwaukee, Wi >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16881	From: Lennard Stewart	Date: 6/21/2011
Subject: Re: MR cd's

Lennard Stewart wrote:                Guys The cd's you all are speaking of the ones Model Railroader has come out with are not CD's  they are DVD's  here is what it says. You would put these in your DVD drive on your Computer and view them. You do not install them on your hard drive unless you copied the entire DVD onto your Harddrive that would take up a lot of space. Hope this helps. Gary Woodard wrote:   A few years ago, I had purchased a compilation CD of O Scale Railroading, which included all of the issues from No.1 to No.95, or something close to that, yes, even then you had to have the CD in the drive to view the issues.   Gary W       Click HERE http://www.eeinternational.org/pages/page.asp?page_id=31469 to answer life's two most important questions! From: Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> To: vintageho@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 11:17 AM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: MR cd's   If that is the case, I am ok with it. Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: cwrailman@... Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 14:34:45 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Re: MR cd's   If the MR reference CD is like some of the reference materials I use professionally, while it can be used in any puter, to use the product the original CD must be in the CD/DVD drive. On to the shops. Denny Janitor in Trainng CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Gary Woodard <betsy662@...> wrote: > > Hi Vic, >   > Software like that doesn't carry the same kind of license you would get with a Windows CD, or now a days, DVD! You can probably install it on as many computers as you own. And if you can't, then Kalmbach can keep it! >   > Gary W >   >   > > Click HERE http://www.eeinternational.org/pages/page.asp?page_id=31469 to answer life's two most important questions! > > From: Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> > To: vintageho@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 8:20 AM > Subject: RE: [vintageHO] MR cd's > > >   > I am going to seriously consider it.  If the proper licensing is in place for me to re-install it on another computer, for instance if the hd crashes or in the case of a replacement computer, then I will likely purchase the CD.  If it is a one-time and your done install, hmmm, I am not so sure. > > Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC > > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > From: mwbauers55@... > Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 23:31:37 -0500 > Subject: [vintageHO] MR cd's > >   > So........... > > How many folks are giving serious thought to one day, sorta soon, > getting the recently announced full set of MR on cd ??? > > I'm one of them. > > Best to Ya, > Mike Bauers > Milwaukee, Wi >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16882	From: Rick Jones	Date: 6/21/2011
Subject: Re: MR cd's

On 6/21/2011 10:00 AM, Walter Bayer II wrote: > Pre-ordered it. Also bought Natl. Geographic complete. Things like this > are marvelous IMHO. [I know many have various doubts. I have none!] > Loads of searchable info, with pix. Take little space. Had to trash most > of the paper mags when I moved. Couldn't even give them away ... even to > avid model railroaders! Give your old magazines to the local library system if nobody else wants to buy or take them. Not every library has a subscription to all of the different hobby magazines, and it could help snag new modelers if they somehow find out they are available at their library. -- Rick Jones "The big innovation of [Windows] XP is that it has a backdoor that sucks out all your proprietary information. By the way...it still runs all your favorite viruses." -Sun Microsystems CEO Scott McNeally

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16883	From: Charles	Date: 6/21/2011
Subject: Re: MR cd's

I've given a lot of magazines (and some low dollar value ubiquitous books like Beebe's "Highball") to a local model railroad club. Some of the members enjoy reading the magazines, and they also put them out for sale at 25 or 50 cents each when they have a train show for the public. If I opt for the MR offer, I might put the slug of MR's I have on Craig's list for a local pick up. (Not interested in using ebay and dealing with shipping for a bookcase full of magazines!) Or I might just donate them to the club. And.... since they are a non profit corporation, I take a teensie tax deduction. The club is quite active and was alert enough to get their picture taken with Rod Stewart (pretty darn good HO modeler he is) at a local concert. Chuck Kinzer --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Rick Jones <r.t.jones@...> wrote: > > On 6/21/2011 10:00 AM, Walter Bayer II wrote: > > Pre-ordered it. Also bought Natl. Geographic complete. Things like this > > are marvelous IMHO. [I know many have various doubts. I have none!] > > Loads of searchable info, with pix. Take little space. Had to trash most > > of the paper mags when I moved. Couldn't even give them away ... even to > > avid model railroaders! > > Give your old magazines to the local library system if nobody else > wants to buy or take them. Not every library has a subscription to all > of the different hobby magazines, and it could help snag new modelers if > they somehow find out they are available at their library. > > -- > > Rick Jones > > "The big innovation of [Windows] XP is that it has a backdoor that sucks > out all your proprietary information. By the way...it still runs all > your favorite viruses." > -Sun Microsystems CEO Scott McNeally >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16884	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 6/21/2011
Subject: Re: MR cd's

Library was the first thing I tried. No interest in old magazines whatsoever. On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 6:41 PM, Rick Jones <r.t.jones@...> wrote: On 6/21/2011 10:00 AM, Walter Bayer II wrote: > Pre-ordered it. Also bought Natl. Geographic complete. Things like this > are marvelous IMHO. [I know many have various doubts. I have none!] > Loads of searchable info, with pix. Take little space. Had to trash most > of the paper mags when I moved. Couldn't even give them away ... even to > avid model railroaders!    Give your old magazines to the local library system if nobody else wants to buy or take them. Not every library has a subscription to all of the different hobby magazines, and it could help snag new modelers if they somehow find out they are available at their library. --                   Rick Jones "The big innovation of [Windows] XP is that it has a backdoor that sucks out all your proprietary information. By the way...it still runs all your favorite viruses."    -Sun Microsystems CEO Scott McNeally ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings:    Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to:    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join    (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email:    vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com    vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:    vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Regards, Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16885	From: cwrailman	Date: 6/22/2011
Subject: Re: MR cd's

One of the greatest gifts I have ever received was a complete collection of MR and RMC from 1950 to 1970 in a specially built cabinet. I received that in about 1984. Add to that the bound and individual issues I had accumulated from 1970 till 1985 when I stopped buying both MR and RMC and that is the nucleus of my hobby related magazine library. In addition I have a small collection of about 12 years of the NMRA Bulletin from the Whit Towers era of the late 1960's to mid 1980's. IMHO these are better in content than anything published today. I never get tired of picking an issue or two of these vintage magazines and sitting down and going over them. Many times I see another scratch building project I want to add to my long list or I get an idea I want to try. Sometimes I see a building in the background that gives me an idea and I grab a pad and sketch up a structure or some sort of scene. Someday when I die the recipients of my estate might have a bit of trouble dispensing with this aspect of my library as there does not seem to be much market value to them but for me they are like gold and represent what I consider to be the Golden Age of this hobby. Though I would never even consider trading my hard copies for electronic versions, which would necessitate sitting in front of a screen to read the information, those of you who do not have access to such a hard copy collection may want to consider the MR DVD. It will provide you with years of reading. Heck, just going over the letters to the editor and some of the advertisements make me long for those days. But then I remember that at that time I was more focused on cars and did not have the resources to apply to the hobby that are available to me today. All things considered, I may be better off enjoying the vintage models I have accumulated while reading and being guided by the model builders and articles of the past. Now on to the shops, Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote: > > So........... > > How many folks are giving serious thought to one day, sorta soon, > getting the recently announced full set of MR on cd ??? > > I'm one of them. > > Best to Ya, > Mike Bauers > Milwaukee, Wi >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16886	From: Dick	Date: 6/23/2011
Subject: MR DVDs

I am waiting to hear about people's practical experience with the format of the MR DVDs and how accessible content will be. I can see myself wanting to copy out plans for a construction project and photos for reference. Will I be able to do that? I can't see trying to measure dimensions on my PC display. Also, will there be a good index? I've seen with e-books that some are in a good format and some not so good. Some very old (=copyrights expired) books have been scanned by volunteers and distributed for free or a very nominal charge. Quality on these is very uneven. So I am in wait and see mode. Dick Moessner

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16887	From: Gary Woodard	Date: 6/23/2011
Subject: Re: MR DVDs

Hi Dick,   I would imagine that the software contained within the DVD will contain an up to date version of whatever viewing browser they use, Kalmbach is usually pretty good at being up to date, that alone is probably why the DVD costs as much as it does, as the content of the publications contained in it simply wouldn't be worth that much to that many people, Kalmbach is probably recouping the costs of having the necessary software produced.   Gary W       Click HERE http://www.eeinternational.org/pages/page.asp?page_id=31469 to answer life's two most important questions! From: Dick <rb_train@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 9:46 AM Subject: [vintageHO] MR DVDs   I am waiting to hear about people's practical experience with the format of the MR DVDs and how accessible content will be. I can see myself wanting to copy out plans for a construction project and photos for reference. Will I be able to do that? I can't see trying to measure dimensions on my PC display. Also, will there be a good index? I've seen with e-books that some are in a good format and some not so good. Some very old (=copyrights expired) books have been scanned by volunteers and distributed for free or a very nominal charge. Quality on these is very uneven. So I am in wait and see mode. Dick Moessner

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16888	From: jim heckard	Date: 6/23/2011
Subject: Looking to buy

Attachments : IMG_7160_5.JPG IMG_7158_4.JPG IMG_7156_3_1.JPG IMG_7155_2_1.JPG IMG_7154_1_1.JPG                    I had sent these pictures a while back but because of many new members I'm looking to buy a Walthers (Taylor made) pre- war 4-6-4 Baltic with 6 volt motor. It can be the 2 rail or 3 rail version. I would like the engine with tender but will just take the engine.  If you have one to sell contact me off site at  jimheck@...  with price and condition. Basket case, unfinished, in pieces or complete in good to excellent shape.                                                                 Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 16889	From: RalphB	Date: 6/24/2011
Subject: Re: MR DVDs

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Dick Moessner wrote: > > I am waiting to hear about people's practical experience with the format of the MR DVDs and how accessible content will be. I can see myself wanting to copy out plans for a construction project and photos for reference. Will I be able to do that? -------------------- I think one of the problems that may creep in is trying to print foldout plans; MR did some of these over the years. The problem is that many (most?) printers can't print right to the edge of the sheet of paper. What you get is either a reduced-size (no longer in scale) printout with everything within your printer's borders, or whatever is outside those borders simply doesn't print. A few years ago, I was able to copy MR's drawings for easement curves because my last employer had a copier capable of handling 11" x 17" paper (also did mirror images so I got right- and left-hand curves). Ralph Balfoort

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16890	From: cwrailman	Date: 6/24/2011
Subject: Re: MR DVDs

I think some of the questions/concerns about how the DVD will function have been explained on their WEB site. http://www.kalmbachstore.com/15120.html On to the shops. Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "RalphB" <Alpvalsys@...> wrote: > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Dick Moessner wrote: > > > > I am waiting to hear about people's practical experience with the format of the MR DVDs and how accessible content will be. I can see myself wanting to copy out plans for a construction project and photos for reference. Will I be able to do that? > -------------------- > > I think one of the problems that may creep in is trying to print foldout plans; MR did some of these over the years. The problem is that many (most?) printers can't print right to the edge of the sheet of paper. What you get is either a reduced-size (no longer in scale) printout with everything within your printer's borders, or whatever is outside those borders simply doesn't print. > > A few years ago, I was able to copy MR's drawings for easement curves because my last employer had a copier capable of handling 11" x 17" paper (also did mirror images so I got right- and left-hand curves). > > Ralph Balfoort >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16891	From: cwrailman	Date: 6/24/2011
Subject: Re: MR DVDs

Since most of the printers produced in the last ten years and some before that time are designed to print photo's, you can force the printer to print to the edge by selecting one of the borderless formats. At least that is true for the printers I have at home and those we had in my office. Some of the software that accompanies current printers will allow you, through one of the advanced features in the printer dialog menu, to create a custom size and in so doing you can print to the edge of the paper. Don't forget to select "none" in th paper scaling dialog box. Since MR indicates the pages will be in PDF format if your printer won't handle the size to your expectations, you can always take a file to one of the stationary stores like Office Max and have it printed to a larger size. Their charges are rather reasonable for that service. I would recommend that if you are considering purchasing this DVD that you also download and install a current version of Adobe Reader. They are free from various sites. As a minimum you should have Adobe Reader version 8. Opening the shops. Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "RalphB" <Alpvalsys@...> wrote: > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Dick Moessner wrote: > > > > I think one of the problems that may creep in is trying to print foldout plans; MR did some of these over the years. The problem is that many (most?) printers can't print right to the edge of the sheet of paper. What you get is either a reduced-size (no longer in scale) printout with everything within your printer's borders, or whatever is outside those borders simply doesn't print. > Ralph Balfoort >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16892	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 6/24/2011
Subject: Re: MR DVDs

Adobe Reader X (Version 10) is available now and also allows Tile Printing, in the event you are trying to print a bigger page than your printer can handle.  It will print multiple pages that you can tape together. Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: cwrailman@... Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 15:14:29 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Re: MR DVDs   Since most of the printers produced in the last ten years and some before that time are designed to print photo's, you can force the printer to print to the edge by selecting one of the borderless formats. At least that is true for the printers I have at home and those we had in my office. Some of the software that accompanies current printers will allow you, through one of the advanced features in the printer dialog menu, to create a custom size and in so doing you can print to the edge of the paper. Don't forget to select "none" in th paper scaling dialog box. Since MR indicates the pages will be in PDF format if your printer won't handle the size to your expectations, you can always take a file to one of the stationary stores like Office Max and have it printed to a larger size. Their charges are rather reasonable for that service. I would recommend that if you are considering purchasing this DVD that you also download and install a current version of Adobe Reader. They are free from various sites. As a minimum you should have Adobe Reader version 8. Opening the shops. Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "RalphB" <Alpvalsys@...> wrote: > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Dick Moessner wrote: > > > > I think one of the problems that may creep in is trying to print foldout plans; MR did some of these over the years. The problem is that many (most?) printers can't print right to the edge of the sheet of paper. What you get is either a reduced-size (no longer in scale) printout with everything within your printer's borders, or whatever is outside those borders simply doesn't print. > Ralph Balfoort >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16893	From: jim heckard	Date: 6/26/2011
Subject: NYC Dreyfuss Tin Toy Engine

I just bought something on eBay I had never seen before. I bought it because I have a year and a half old grandson who I want to like trains.  He does like Thomas the Tank Engine . Go to eBay 250841891818    Vintage Tin HO Scale Dreyfuss Hudson Toy. From what I know it has no motor but the wheels and side/ main rods move and hopefully he will be able to play with it on the floor. I hope it is HO scale . The only thing is the tender is shorter then it should be but it looks pretty neat anyway.                                          Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16894	From: tom	Date: 6/26/2011
Subject: Vintage HOn3?

There is a discussion going on on one of the UK forums I'm a member of as to who did the first narrow gauge modelling and what the first commercial products were. Now I think HOn3 was popular in the States a while before it's British equivalent OOn3 caught on over there. My thoughts are that the first products would have been the Kemtron line which came out late 40's?

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16895	From: ablecynic	Date: 6/27/2011
Subject: Re: Vintage HOn3?

The oldest kit in my collection is an original "Montezuma" made by the owner of Kemtron before the name existed as such. I have been told by Bob Veefkind that this was from the early 50s, maybe 1951. There was a discussion on this before: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HOn3/message/7060 And here is a bit about the history of Kemtron's founder, Levon Kemalyan. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Levon_Kemalyan There has been speculation that the first HOn3 Locomotive was the regauged Lindsay TT Scale Dockside loco which was also offered by Kemtron in the 1950s and I don't know the relative dates of either kit. Kemtron offered a lot of TT and some of the HOn3 freight truck sideframes came with TT wheels and the TT sideframes with HOn3 wheels. In helping with the research on the on the article on Carroll Weiss, the early HOn3 builder, I saw some ads in Model Railroader that were generic (no products listed) but were for HOn3 in the the late 1940s. Hope this at least helps start the search. Matt Coleman --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "tom" <tebeeb@...> wrote: > > There is a discussion going on on one of the UK forums I'm a member of as to who did the first narrow gauge modelling and what the first commercial products were. > > Now I think HOn3 was popular in the States a while before it's British equivalent OOn3 caught on over there. > > My thoughts are that the first products would have been the Kemtron line which came out late 40's? >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16896	From: jim heckard	Date: 6/27/2011
Subject: Lindsay TT 0-4-0

Attachments : IMG_7168_1.JPG     Matt,           I sent a pcture of this ad from MR ( no date on the page ) showing the announcement of two Lindsay engines. One the 0-4-0 "Tiny Tim " in TT and the "Stubby" in HO. Since they are both on the same announcement and I have that the Lindsay Stubby came out in 1950 I am assuming the Lindsay TT 0-4-0 came out in 1950. It does mention the TT 0-4-0 is available now and the Stubby would be about Oct 15th.        I have nothing on the Kemtron engine or date.                                Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 16897	From: corlissbs@aol.com	Date: 6/27/2011
Subject: Re: Lindsay TT 0-4-0 [1 Attachment]

Mu Stubby crumbled away.  I never saw the 0-4-0T.   Brad Smith Franklin, WI

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16898	From: jim heckard	Date: 6/27/2011
Subject: Re: Lindsay TT 0-4-0

While I haven't seen a hundred of the Lindsay Stubby yours is the first I heard  crumbled. The one I have is solid. Just goes to show Lindsay was another company with " zinc pest " problems from poor metal and/or lousy quality control.                                                                          Jim H ----- Original Message ----- From: corlissbs@... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 9:34 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Lindsay TT 0-4-0   Mu Stubby crumbled away.  I never saw the 0-4-0T.   Brad Smith Franklin, WI

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16899	From: Germain Golembowski	Date: 6/27/2011
Subject: Re: Lindsay TT 0-4-0

I Have 3 or 4 of the TT 0-4-0Ts in my collection and have no sign of "Zinc Pest". The problem might just be limited to the Lindsay Stubby..   G A "Jerry" Golembowski Grandy, NC        ----- Original Message ----- From: jim heckard To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 10:25 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Lindsay TT 0-4-0        While I haven't seen a hundred of the Lindsay Stubby yours is the first I heard  crumbled. The one I have is solid. Just goes to show Lindsay was another company with " zinc pest " problems from poor metal and/or lousy quality control.                                                                          Jim H ----- Original Message ----- From: corlissbs@... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 9:34 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Lindsay TT 0-4-0   Mu Stubby crumbled away.  I never saw the 0-4-0T.   Brad Smith Franklin, WI

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16900	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 6/27/2011
Subject: Re: Lindsay TT 0-4-0

I have sold 5-6 or more of the Stubby diesels within the past 6 years and I think only one I have ever come across was rotting. Here is my Stubby: http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/4388399138/in/set-72157623384254115 It looks to have a Kemtron super detail kit specific to this engine that I just recently came across a reference to in one of my catalogs. This is the only kemtron locomotive I have. It is a Intermediate 1890 2-8-0 HOn3 steam locomotive built kit: http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/5691714779/in/set-72157626536149714   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: jim heckard <jimheck@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, June 27, 2011 10:25:38 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Lindsay TT 0-4-0        While I haven't seen a hundred of the Lindsay Stubby yours is the first I heard  crumbled. The one I have is solid. Just goes to show Lindsay was another company with " zinc pest " problems from poor metal and/or lousy quality control.                                                                          Jim H ----- Original Message ----- From: corlissbs@... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 9:34 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Lindsay TT 0-4-0   Mu Stubby crumbled away.  I never saw the 0-4-0T.   Brad Smith Franklin, WI

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16901	From: Richard White	Date: 6/27/2011
Subject: Central Valley trucks- Brass??

I see some CV trucks (T-31) listed on EBay as "cast brass," and indeed they look brass-colored in the photos. This is item 180687749403. My only experience with CV trucks is with the T-39 (streamliner truck) and these were definitely zamac. Comments, please. -Richard White

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16902	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 6/27/2011
Subject: Re: Central Valley trucks- Brass??

I don't think they are brass.  I think they are cast zamac that have been plated brass.  They were made that way from Central Valley for some special reasons, but didn't really work out the way they expected.  I saw some on eBay a couple of years ago with an explanation.  They really aren't anything better than the regular Central Valley and for sure I personally wouldn't pay extra.  There may eventually be some collector value, because they are one off products. Regards, Vic Bitleris Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: toytrain13@... Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2011 01:27:08 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Central Valley trucks- Brass??   I see some CV trucks (T-31) listed on EBay as "cast brass," and indeed they look brass-colored in the photos. This is item 180687749403. My only experience with CV trucks is with the T-39 (streamliner truck) and these were definitely zamac. Comments, please. -Richard White

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16903	From: ablecynic	Date: 6/28/2011
Subject: Re: Lindsay TT 0-4-0

Jim, Thanks for the copy of the ad! That narrows down the search in terms of time. I have read, but can't confirm with written documentation, that Lindsay was sold to Kemtron in 1956. If true, then the HOn3 versions of the Lindsay products made by Kemtron are later than the original Montezuma kit by a number of years. I have three of the TT Scale 0-4-0Ts in various iterations, as well as two versions of the Kemtron 'Teakettle' that came as an 0-4-0T or 2-4-2T (or any combination inbetween I suppose). The Teakettles use the narrowed Lindsay chassis but have a brass superstructure (etched and cast parts). The Teakettle is oversized for HO scale and is closer to Sn2, but I don't think anyone who owned one cared. The Lindsay motor was the 'Falhauber' of its day -- smooth, low current draw, and pricey for its time. Thanks for the additional info! Matt Coleman --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > > Matt, > > > I sent a pcture of this ad from MR ( no date on the page ) showing the announcement of two Lindsay engines. One the 0-4-0 "Tiny Tim " in TT and the "Stubby" in HO. Since they are both on the same announcement and I have that the Lindsay Stubby came out in 1950 I am assuming the Lindsay TT 0-4-0 came out in 1950. It does mention the TT 0-4-0 is available now and the Stubby would be about Oct 15th. > > I have nothing on the Kemtron engine or date. > > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16904	From: jim heckard	Date: 6/28/2011
Subject: Re: Lindsay TT 0-4-0

Hi Matt,          Glad it helped. One of the hardest things to track down about vintage HO is an exact date. Ads like the one I sent sometimes came out long before production and vice versa. The next hardest thing to document is who sold what when. Just like you are trying to figure dates for Lindsay items that became Kemtron or who came first I'm trying to figure who sold the Stubby first because I've seen a company called ROBICO advertise the Stubby. I don't even know what ROBICO stands for. I'm sure it is RO--  BI-- Company.         I really think you are right that Lindsay came first, went out of business and items were picked up by Kemtron and ROBICO but it is all guess work without documentation.  You can't trust the dates totally in magazine ads ( MR & RMC ) unless it is a product write up which isn't a 100% either. Hey I remember a write up with picture for a Lindberg production model of a U-boat diesel ( forget the actual U ? number ) They showed a model of it with a new improved drive at a big train show and said it would be on the market soon. Yet it never went further and was never sold to the public that I know of.        One of my favorite resources for information is Jim Lenahan's Locomotive Lexicon Volume I & II who I talked to many times before he passed away. He has a lot of dates that might be  listed right and might be wrong. At the back of one of the Volumes he states he doesn't apologize for mistakes. The information he printed came from many different people who were into HO along with his personal collection and he admits some are best guess.  So many HO companies to know evrything about them all. That's why groups like this are so helpful.                                                         Jim H ----- Original Message ----- From: ablecynic To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 7:16 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Lindsay TT 0-4-0   Jim, Thanks for the copy of the ad! That narrows down the search in terms of time. I have read, but can't confirm with written documentation, that Lindsay was sold to Kemtron in 1956. If true, then the HOn3 versions of the Lindsay products made by Kemtron are later than the original Montezuma kit by a number of years. I have three of the TT Scale 0-4-0Ts in various iterations, as well as two versions of the Kemtron 'Teakettle' that came as an 0-4-0T or 2-4-2T (or any combination inbetween I suppose). The Teakettles use the narrowed Lindsay chassis but have a brass superstructure (etched and cast parts). The Teakettle is oversized for HO scale and is closer to Sn2, but I don't think anyone who owned one cared. The Lindsay motor was the 'Falhauber' of its day -- smooth, low current draw, and pricey for its time. Thanks for the additional info! Matt Coleman --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > > Matt, > > > I sent a pcture of this ad from MR ( no date on the page ) showing the announcement of two Lindsay engines. One the 0-4-0 "Tiny Tim " in TT and the "Stubby" in HO. Since they are both on the same announcement and I have that the Lindsay Stubby came out in 1950 I am assuming the Lindsay TT 0-4-0 came out in 1950. It does mention the TT 0-4-0 is available now and the Stubby would be about Oct 15th. > > I have nothing on the Kemtron engine or date. > > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16905	From: ablecynic	Date: 6/29/2011
Subject: Re: Lindsay TT 0-4-0

Jim, From what I can tell from Model Railroader ads in the 1940s, ROBICO was the original company that made the Stubby. It passed to Lindsay sometime in the late 40s who was doing development work in TT at the time. The Stubby was available in HOn3 (there is one on eBay right now) but whether that variant was done after Kemtron picked them up I don't know. Thanks for all the info! Matt --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > Hi Matt, > > Glad it helped. One of the hardest things to track down about vintage HO is an exact date. Ads like the one I sent sometimes came out long before production and vice versa. The next hardest thing to document is who sold what when. Just like you are trying to figure dates for Lindsay items that became Kemtron or who came first I'm trying to figure who sold the Stubby first because I've seen a company called ROBICO advertise the Stubby. I don't even know what ROBICO stands for. I'm sure it is RO-- BI-- Company. > > I really think you are right that Lindsay came first, went out of business and items were picked up by Kemtron and ROBICO but it is all guess work without documentation. You can't trust the dates totally in magazine ads ( MR & RMC ) unless it is a product write up which isn't a 100% either. Hey I remember a write up with picture for a Lindberg production model of a U-boat diesel ( forget the actual U ? number ) They showed a model of it with a new improved drive at a big train show and said it would be on the market soon. Yet it never went further and was never sold to the public that I know of. > > One of my favorite resources for information is Jim Lenahan's Locomotive Lexicon Volume I & II who I talked to many times before he passed away. He has a lot of dates that might be listed right and might be wrong. At the back of one of the Volumes he states he doesn't apologize for mistakes. The information he printed came from many different people who were into HO along with his personal collection and he admits some are best guess. So many HO companies to know evrything about them all. That's why groups like this are so helpful. > > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16906	From: erieberk	Date: 6/29/2011
Subject: Re: Lindsay TT 0-4-0

Matt, Over the years, we've all put lots of info in the archives. This might be one of the first places to search, when in question about something. Yes, Lindsay was acquired by Kemtron in 1956 -- November 1956, to be exact. I wrote in on this some time ago (can't remember precisely when), and it should come up in a search of the past messages, probably by just including the two manufacturers' names. As confirmation of this fact, I stated that this information is found in the Kemtron catalog. My source is Kemtron's "4th Master Catalog For Craftsmen," on Page 61. I don't have any earlier Kemtron Catalogs, but I may assume that this notation was also included in any earlier Kemtron catalogs that carried Lindsay products at the time. The catalog page - #61 -- with the heading "The Lindsay Quality Line," includes a further inscription that Lindsay is to be sold to U.S. Hobbies, Inc. In the meantime, Kemtron was to carry the Lindsay products, as included in this catalog on pages 61, 62 and 63. Raymond F. Wetzel --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "ablecynic" <mattjcoleman@...> wrote: > > Jim, > > Thanks for the copy of the ad! That narrows down the search in terms of time. I have read, but can't confirm with written documentation, that Lindsay was sold to Kemtron in 1956. If true, then the HOn3 versions of the Lindsay products made by Kemtron are later than the original Montezuma kit by a number of years. > > I have three of the TT Scale 0-4-0Ts in various iterations, as well as two versions of the Kemtron 'Teakettle' that came as an 0-4-0T or 2-4-2T (or any combination inbetween I suppose). The Teakettles use the narrowed Lindsay chassis but have a brass superstructure (etched and cast parts). The Teakettle is oversized for HO scale and is closer to Sn2, but I don't think anyone who owned one cared. > > The Lindsay motor was the 'Falhauber' of its day -- smooth, low current draw, and pricey for its time. > > Thanks for the additional info! > > Matt Coleman > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Matt, > > > > > > I sent a pcture of this ad from MR ( no date on the page ) showing the announcement of two Lindsay engines. One the 0-4-0 "Tiny Tim " in TT and the "Stubby" in HO. Since they are both on the same announcement and I have that the Lindsay Stubby came out in 1950 I am assuming the Lindsay TT 0-4-0 came out in 1950. It does mention the TT 0-4-0 is available now and the Stubby would be about Oct 15th. > > > > I have nothing on the Kemtron engine or date. > > > > Jim H > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16907	From: erieberk	Date: 6/29/2011
Subject: Re: Lindsay TT 0-4-0

Matt, This same Kemtron Catalog I just got done discussing in my previous post contains the Kemtron "Stubby" Yard Diesel -- listed (with drawing and exploded view of the model), on page 37 -- Note; not with the Lindsay products at the end of the catalog. I can't say, but by this it appears that Kemtron acquired the "Stubby" from Lindsay before acquiring the entire Lindsay line. It is stated that a Lindsay 7 Pole Motor is included with this model kit -- priced at $16.95. It is advertised in this catalog as being H0n3 Scale, however, at the bottom of this display it says "Also Available In H0." In the body of the ad (near the top), under a sub-heading of "0-4-0 DM Switcher," it states - "Vulcan Locomotive Works (the prototype) produces diesels for every gauge. We offer the DM Switcher in H0 Standard and H0 narrow gauge." Ray F. Wetzel --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "ablecynic" <mattjcoleman@...> wrote: > > Jim, > > From what I can tell from Model Railroader ads in the 1940s, ROBICO was the original company that made the Stubby. It passed to Lindsay sometime in the late 40s who was doing development work in TT at the time. The Stubby was available in HOn3 (there is one on eBay right now) but whether that variant was done after Kemtron picked them up I don't know. > > Thanks for all the info! > > Matt > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jim heckard" <jimheck@> wrote: > > > > > > Hi Matt, > > > > Glad it helped. One of the hardest things to track down about vintage HO is an exact date. Ads like the one I sent sometimes came out long before production and vice versa. The next hardest thing to document is who sold what when. Just like you are trying to figure dates for Lindsay items that became Kemtron or who came first I'm trying to figure who sold the Stubby first because I've seen a company called ROBICO advertise the Stubby. I don't even know what ROBICO stands for. I'm sure it is RO-- BI-- Company. > > > > I really think you are right that Lindsay came first, went out of business and items were picked up by Kemtron and ROBICO but it is all guess work without documentation. You can't trust the dates totally in magazine ads ( MR & RMC ) unless it is a product write up which isn't a 100% either. Hey I remember a write up with picture for a Lindberg production model of a U-boat diesel ( forget the actual U ? number ) They showed a model of it with a new improved drive at a big train show and said it would be on the market soon. Yet it never went further and was never sold to the public that I know of. > > > > One of my favorite resources for information is Jim Lenahan's Locomotive Lexicon Volume I & II who I talked to many times before he passed away. He has a lot of dates that might be listed right and might be wrong. At the back of one of the Volumes he states he doesn't apologize for mistakes. The information he printed came from many different people who were into HO along with his personal collection and he admits some are best guess. So many HO companies to know evrything about them all. That's why groups like this are so helpful. > > > > Jim H > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16910	From: ablecynic	Date: 6/29/2011
Subject: Re: Photos of Lindsay Stubby in HOn3

Belay all this thread. The seller has taken down the listing and reposted it as HO not HOn3.. Matt --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "ablecynic" <mattjcoleman@...> wrote: > > This link is to an eBay auction for an HOn3 Stubby. If you go quickly, you should be able to see the photos. > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=390326565712&ssPageName=STRK:MESINDXX:IT > > Matt >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16911	From: tom bell	Date: 6/29/2011
Subject: Re: Photos of Lindsay Stubby in HOn3

It's been re-listed as a HO possibly by Kemtron so maybe he made a mistake the first time  --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "ablecynic" <mattjcoleman@...> wrote: > > This link is to an eBay auction for an HOn3 Stubby. If you go quickly, you should be able to see the photos. > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=390326565712&ssPageName=STRK:MESINDXX:IT > > Matt >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16912	From: ablecynic	Date: 6/29/2011
Subject: Re: Photos of Lindsay Stubby in HOn3

Thanks, I saw that too and deleted my previous posts. Matt --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, tom bell <tebeeb@...> wrote: > > It's been re-listed as a HO possibly by Kemtron so maybe he made a mistake > the first time > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16913	From: tom bell	Date: 6/29/2011
Subject: Re: Photos of Lindsay Stubby in HOn3

One thing I've noticed about this one is it has doors and windows in the front and back on the cab - I'm sure I've seen others with these just blank, is this something that changed at some time? Tom

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16914	From: jim heckard	Date: 6/29/2011
Subject: Lindsay HO Stubby

To anyone interested if you go to www.hoseeker.net and click on Gallery , go to Lindsay listing , HO Trains (H-P), you will find 3 views of a Lindsay HO Stubby from my collection. Then click Literature  go to Lindsay, Diagrams/Part numbers you will see 3 pages under the L-1700 Stubby listing ( It should be L-700 and I have to inform Larry of the mistake ).       Hope it helps with Lindsay HO Stubby. I have nothing about an HOn3 Lindsay Stubby or Kemtron versions.                                              Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16915	From: ablecynic	Date: 6/30/2011
Subject: Re: Lindsay TT 0-4-0

Ray, Thanks for both your posts. I had searched our website but didn't find the comments you made -- perhaps I had the keywords wrong. I did look at my Kemtron catalogs per your post and found the reference you just cited. First time I had seen the date, always before it was based on what someone else said. Thanks! Matt --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "erieberk" <erieberk@...> wrote: > > Matt, > > This same Kemtron Catalog I just got done discussing in my previous post contains the Kemtron "Stubby" Yard Diesel -- listed (with drawing and exploded view of the model), on page 37 -- Note; not with the Lindsay products at the end of the catalog. I can't say, but by this it appears that Kemtron acquired the "Stubby" from Lindsay before acquiring the entire Lindsay line. It is stated that a Lindsay 7 Pole Motor is included with this model kit -- priced at $16.95. It is advertised in this catalog as being H0n3 Scale, however, at the bottom of this display it says "Also Available In H0." In the body of the ad (near the top), under a sub-heading of "0-4-0 DM Switcher," it states - "Vulcan Locomotive Works (the prototype) produces diesels for every gauge. We offer the DM Switcher in H0 Standard and H0 narrow gauge." > > Ray F. Wetzel > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16916	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 6/30/2011
Subject: Re: Yellowstone Body

Hi Ray! I was surprised to see in the mail the other day a package with two small roof sections molded (in solder?) The one seems to fit pretty well and may work well with a little clean-up. Thanks so much! It may be a few/many years from now before i am able to get to this piece, but it is surely better than what i had before..which was nothing.  The shell being rare as it is, it is hard to imagine I would have come across this missing part any other way. I indebted to you for sure! Thanks!   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: erieberk <erieberk@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, January 8, 2011 4:10:41 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Yellowstone Body   Hi Sean, I'll give it a shot, in trying to make a mold for this piece. Since it's not very elaborate nor that big it should be pretty straightforward, but I'll see how it goes. I've made a few casting before -- one was of the continuation of the rear portion of a Varney pre-War engine frame which was broke just after the last driver and missing from there back. Turned out fine; I casted it right onto the forward section as one piece. No promises here as to whether I'll be as successful, but I'll see if I can help you on this. As for the third part, I don't have any loose ones right now as whatever I had I've installed in the boilers, and it's a hammer/press fit. No way of removing them after they're installed. I'll try to get some pics though, and some measurements. The Varney plans for building the Yellowstone consist of 10 leaves (20 pages) of paper which I'd be glad to copy for you if you don't mind a wait. My printer quite a couple weeks ago, and I've been on the lookout for a reasonable replacement. I could Xerox them at the library if you'd like them sooner, no problem. You could also go to your Model Railroader magazines, if you have the May & June 1949 issues as there are plans for the Yellowstone in there two, as a two-part article with drawings. I'm not sure if it covers everything that Varney printed in his plans, but it is very good. Unless you're planning on using a Pitman DC-90, you shouldn't have to hack anything away inside the boiler. Varney used that large 6 volt V-1 (much larger in height than the V-2 that many modelers used later), and that fit without any clearance problems. Ray F.W.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16917	From: cwrailman	Date: 6/30/2011
Subject: Re: Yellowstone Body

With all the chaos and confusion going on in the world today, it's nice to know there are still people out there willing to help fellow human beings. That is one of the great things about our railroad community. Now off to the hotter than hell (110 degree yesterday) shops. Denny Profusely sweating, Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > Hi Ray! > > I was surprised to see in the mail the other day a package with two small roof > sections molded (in solder?) The one seems to fit pretty well and may work well > with a little clean-up. Thanks so much! It may be a few/many years from now > before i am able to get to this piece, but it is surely better than what i had > before..which was nothing. The shell being rare as it is, it is hard to imagine > I would have come across this missing part any other way. > > I indebted to you for sure! > > Thanks! > > Sean > > > "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario > Andretti! > > > > > ________________________________ > From: erieberk <erieberk@...> > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sat, January 8, 2011 4:10:41 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Yellowstone Body > > > > > Hi Sean, > > I'll give it a shot, in trying to make a mold for this piece. Since it's not > very elaborate nor that big it should be pretty straightforward, but I'll see > how it goes. I've made a few casting before -- one was of the continuation of > the rear portion of a Varney pre-War engine frame which was broke just after the > last driver and missing from there back. Turned out fine; I casted it right > onto the forward section as one piece. No promises here as to whether I'll be > as successful, but I'll see if I can help you on this. > > > As for the third part, I don't have any loose ones right now as whatever I had > I've installed in the boilers, and it's a hammer/press fit. No way of removing > them after they're installed. I'll try to get some pics though, and some > measurements. > > The Varney plans for building the Yellowstone consist of 10 leaves (20 pages) of > paper which I'd be glad to copy for you if you don't mind a wait. My printer > quite a couple weeks ago, and I've been on the lookout for a reasonable > replacement. I could Xerox them at the library if you'd like them sooner, no > problem. You could also go to your Model Railroader magazines, if you have the > May & June 1949 issues as there are plans for the Yellowstone in there two, as a > two-part article with drawings. I'm not sure if it covers everything that > Varney printed in his plans, but it is very good. > > Unless you're planning on using a Pitman DC-90, you shouldn't have to hack > anything away inside the boiler. Varney used that large 6 volt V-1 (much larger > in height than the V-2 that many modelers used later), and that fit without any > clearance problems. > > Ray F.W. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16918	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 6/30/2011
Subject: Re: Lindsay HO Stubby

For what it's worth, the Lindsay Stubby looks just like my Dad's old Lionel #51 Navy Yard switcher. All that it would need would be a 2-wheel pilot and trailing truck added to either end! I saw a picture of the prototype of the Navy Yard switcher once, and it didn't have the pilot/trailer trucks. Seems they were added to the Lionel model for stability or something. I would love to find one of these and paint it up for the Brooklyn Navy Yard! I saw one at TrainFest but the seller wanted a mint for it. -Steve Neubaum --- On Wed, 6/29/11, jim heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: From: jim heckard <jimheck@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Lindsay HO Stubby To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, June 29, 2011, 1:02 PM            To anyone interested if you go to www.hoseeker.net and click on Gallery , go to Lindsay listing , HO Trains (H-P), you will find 3 views of a Lindsay HO Stubby from my collection. Then click Literature  go to Lindsay, Diagrams/Part numbers you will see 3 pages under the L-1700 Stubby listing ( It should be L-700 and I have to inform Larry of the mistake ).       Hope it helps with Lindsay HO Stubby. I have nothing about an HOn3 Lindsay Stubby or Kemtron versions.                                              Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16919	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 6/30/2011
Subject: Re: Lindsay HO Stubby

Steve, For a while they were selling upwards of $80 or more when they came up for auction. Lately they barely fetch $45 when they end. My last one sold for just that and it also had the Kemtron detail kit to boot. Decided to keep my other one for good after that.   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, June 30, 2011 12:58:45 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Lindsay HO Stubby   For what it's worth, the Lindsay Stubby looks just like my Dad's old Lionel #51 Navy Yard switcher. All that it would need would be a 2-wheel pilot and trailing truck added to either end! I saw a picture of the prototype of the Navy Yard switcher once, and it didn't have the pilot/trailer trucks. Seems they were added to the Lionel model for stability or something. I would love to find one of these and paint it up for the Brooklyn Navy Yard! I saw one at TrainFest but the seller wanted a mint for it. -Steve Neubaum --- On Wed, 6/29/11, jim heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: From: jim heckard <jimheck@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Lindsay HO Stubby To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, June 29, 2011, 1:02 PM            To anyone interested if you go to www.hoseeker.net and click on Gallery , go to Lindsay listing , HO Trains (H-P), you will find 3 views of a Lindsay HO Stubby from my collection. Then click Literature  go to Lindsay, Diagrams/Part numbers you will see 3 pages under the L-1700 Stubby listing ( It should be L-700 and I have to inform Larry of the mistake ).       Hope it helps with Lindsay HO Stubby. I have nothing about an HOn3 Lindsay Stubby or Kemtron versions.                                              Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16920	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 6/30/2011
Subject: Re: Lindsay HO Stubby

Sean (And Group), $80?! Wow, So I suppose a fellow at Trainfest that wanted $60 for his wasn't off the mark then. I am still surprised, as I have bought plenty of steam locomotives for far less than that. What makes them so valuable? Do they at least run fairly well? -Steve Neubaum --- On Thu, 6/30/11, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: From: Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Lindsay HO Stubby To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, June 30, 2011, 12:09 PM   Steve, For a while they were selling upwards of $80 or more when they came up for auction. Lately they barely fetch $45 when they end. My last one sold for just that and it also had the Kemtron detail kit to boot. Decided to keep my other one for good after that.   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, June 30, 2011 12:58:45 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Lindsay HO Stubby   For what it's worth, the Lindsay Stubby looks just like my Dad's old Lionel #51 Navy Yard switcher. All that it would need would be a 2-wheel pilot and trailing truck added to either end! I saw a picture of the prototype of the Navy Yard switcher once, and it didn't have the pilot/trailer trucks. Seems they were added to the Lionel model for stability or something. I would love to find one of these and paint it up for the Brooklyn Navy Yard! I saw one at TrainFest but the seller wanted a mint for it. -Steve Neubaum --- On Wed, 6/29/11, jim heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: From: jim heckard <jimheck@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Lindsay HO Stubby To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, June 29, 2011, 1:02 PM            To anyone interested if you go to www.hoseeker.net and click on Gallery , go to Lindsay listing , HO Trains (H-P), you will find 3 views of a Lindsay HO Stubby from my collection. Then click Literature  go to Lindsay, Diagrams/Part numbers you will see 3 pages under the L-1700 Stubby listing ( It should be L-700 and I have to inform Larry of the mistake ).       Hope it helps with Lindsay HO Stubby. I have nothing about an HOn3 Lindsay Stubby or Kemtron versions.                                              Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16921	From: louis niederlander	Date: 6/30/2011
Subject: Re: Lindsay HO Stubby

Besides my HO interest, I am a long time member of TCA and collect alot of 3 rail O gauge.   May I suggest looking for the Crayola Crayon train set.  The loco is correct for the paint job you want to do.  These have a cheap dc motor and they go for about 20 bucks.   Regards,   Louis N     To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: computersystemrebuild@... Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 10:15:52 -0700 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Lindsay HO Stubby Sean (And Group), $80?! Wow, So I suppose a fellow at Trainfest that wanted $60 for his wasn't off the mark then. I am still surprised, as I have bought plenty of steam locomotives for far less than that. What makes them so valuable? Do they at least run fairly well? -Steve Neubaum --- On Thu, 6/30/11, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: From: Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Lindsay HO Stubby To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, June 30, 2011, 12:09 PM   Steve, For a while they were selling upwards of $80 or more when they came up for auction. Lately they barely fetch $45 when they end. My last one sold for just that and it also had the Kemtron detail kit to boot. Decided to keep my other one for good after that.   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, June 30, 2011 12:58:45 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Lindsay HO Stubby   For what it's worth, the Lindsay Stubby looks just like my Dad's old Lionel #51 Navy Yard switcher. All that it would need would be a 2-wheel pilot and trailing truck added to either end! I saw a picture of the prototype of the Navy Yard switcher once, and it didn't have the pilot/trailer trucks. Seems they were added to the Lionel model for stability or something. I would love to find one of these and paint it up for the Brooklyn Navy Yard! I saw one at TrainFest but the seller wanted a mint for it. -Steve Neubaum --- On Wed, 6/29/11, jim heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: From: jim heckard <jimheck@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Lindsay HO Stubby To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, June 29, 2011, 1:02 PM            To anyone interested if you go to www.hoseeker.net and click on Gallery , go to Lindsay listing , HO Trains (H-P), you will find 3 views of a Lindsay HO Stubby from my collection. Then click Literature  go to Lindsay, Diagrams/Part numbers you will see 3 pages under the L-1700 Stubby listing ( It should be L-700 and I have to inform Larry of the mistake ).       Hope it helps with Lindsay HO Stubby. I have nothing about an HOn3 Lindsay Stubby or Kemtron versions.                                              Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16922	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 6/30/2011
Subject: Re: Lindsay HO Stubby

You mean Lionel's Crayola set? Actually, what I meant was, that I was looking to paint an HO scale Lindsay Stubby like the O Gauge Navy Yard switcher. See, I have a number of HO train consists I have duplicated using old O gauge and vice versa. I have a Picard Novelty Company HO scale Sheffield's milk reefer, and an O Scale sheffield milk car by Westbrook, that has been refitted to 3-rail operation. I run the HO scale car with a Varney shorty combine car. The O Scale train runs with a chopped down Walthers combine. Now if I can get a Varney 4-6-0 in O Scale and convert it to 3-rail operation, they will be completely identical. Did a few other consists that way too. So in short, I am hoping someday to make a Navy Yard switcher in HO scale using the Lindsay model. -Steve Neubaum --- On Thu, 6/30/11, louis niederlander <l_niederlander@...> wrote: From: louis niederlander <l_niederlander@...> Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Lindsay HO Stubby To: vintageho@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, June 30, 2011, 1:09 PM   Besides my HO interest, I am a long time member of TCA and collect alot of 3 rail O gauge.   May I suggest looking for the Crayola Crayon train set.  The loco is correct for the paint job you want to do.  These have a cheap dc motor and they go for about 20 bucks.   Regards,   Louis N     To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: computersystemrebuild@... Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 10:15:52 -0700 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Lindsay HO Stubby Sean (And Group), $80?! Wow, So I suppose a fellow at Trainfest that wanted $60 for his wasn't off the mark then. I am still surprised, as I have bought plenty of steam locomotives for far less than that. What makes them so valuable? Do they at least run fairly well? -Steve Neubaum --- On Thu, 6/30/11, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: From: Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Lindsay HO Stubby To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, June 30, 2011, 12:09 PM   Steve, For a while they were selling upwards of $80 or more when they came up for auction. Lately they barely fetch $45 when they end. My last one sold for just that and it also had the Kemtron detail kit to boot. Decided to keep my other one for good after that.   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, June 30, 2011 12:58:45 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Lindsay HO Stubby   For what it's worth, the Lindsay Stubby looks just like my Dad's old Lionel #51 Navy Yard switcher. All that it would need would be a 2-wheel pilot and trailing truck added to either end! I saw a picture of the prototype of the Navy Yard switcher once, and it didn't have the pilot/trailer trucks. Seems they were added to the Lionel model for stability or something. I would love to find one of these and paint it up for the Brooklyn Navy Yard! I saw one at TrainFest but the seller wanted a mint for it. -Steve Neubaum --- On Wed, 6/29/11, jim heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: From: jim heckard <jimheck@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Lindsay HO Stubby To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, June 29, 2011, 1:02 PM            To anyone interested if you go to www.hoseeker.net and click on Gallery , go to Lindsay listing , HO Trains (H-P), you will find 3 views of a Lindsay HO Stubby from my collection. Then click Literature  go to Lindsay, Diagrams/Part numbers you will see 3 pages under the L-1700 Stubby listing ( It should be L-700 and I have to inform Larry of the mistake ).       Hope it helps with Lindsay HO Stubby. I have nothing about an HOn3 Lindsay Stubby or Kemtron versions.                                              Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16923	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 6/30/2011
Subject: Re: Lindsay HO Stubby

Steve, If it was in good shape than $60 is a great asking price for this locomotive (as of about 4-5 years ago) but compared to the current sales, it is a little on the high end. The one that is currently listed should sell for ~$50 which seems to be today's going rate lately. As for runners.. All the Lindsay motors, as far as I know it to be, are dependable and fairly quiet running motors if maintained properly. Like any old engine, they do need routine maintenance. The locomotive itself is pretty rare, when compared to the production numbers of a similar sized Mantua Booster and seem to be even much more rare than the Penn Line Whitcomb. I would have paid the $60 in a heartbeat, if the engine looked to be as good as mine here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/4388399138/   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, June 30, 2011 1:15:52 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Lindsay HO Stubby   Sean (And Group), $80?! Wow, So I suppose a fellow at Trainfest that wanted $60 for his wasn't off the mark then. I am still surprised, as I have bought plenty of steam locomotives for far less than that. What makes them so valuable? Do they at least run fairly well? -Steve Neubaum --- On Thu, 6/30/11, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: From: Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Lindsay HO Stubby To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, June 30, 2011, 12:09 PM   Steve, For a while they were selling upwards of $80 or more when they came up for auction. Lately they barely fetch $45 when they end. My last one sold for just that and it also had the Kemtron detail kit to boot. Decided to keep my other one for good after that.   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, June 30, 2011 12:58:45 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Lindsay HO Stubby   For what it's worth, the Lindsay Stubby looks just like my Dad's old Lionel #51 Navy Yard switcher. All that it would need would be a 2-wheel pilot and trailing truck added to either end! I saw a picture of the prototype of the Navy Yard switcher once, and it didn't have the pilot/trailer trucks. Seems they were added to the Lionel model for stability or something. I would love to find one of these and paint it up for the Brooklyn Navy Yard! I saw one at TrainFest but the seller wanted a mint for it. -Steve Neubaum --- On Wed, 6/29/11, jim heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: From: jim heckard <jimheck@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Lindsay HO Stubby To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, June 29, 2011, 1:02 PM            To anyone interested if you go to www.hoseeker.net and click on Gallery , go to Lindsay listing , HO Trains (H-P), you will find 3 views of a Lindsay HO Stubby from my collection. Then click Literature  go to Lindsay, Diagrams/Part numbers you will see 3 pages under the L-1700 Stubby listing ( It should be L-700 and I have to inform Larry of the mistake ).       Hope it helps with Lindsay HO Stubby. I have nothing about an HOn3 Lindsay Stubby or Kemtron versions.                                              Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16924	From: louis niederlander	Date: 6/30/2011
Subject: Re: Lindsay HO Stubby

Interesting concept.   Couldn't you use an All Nation 4-6-0?  Or did AN acquire the Varney tooling?   Regards,   Louis N   To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: computersystemrebuild@... Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 11:24:50 -0700 Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Lindsay HO Stubby You mean Lionel's Crayola set? Actually, what I meant was, that I was looking to paint an HO scale Lindsay Stubby like the O Gauge Navy Yard switcher. See, I have a number of HO train consists I have duplicated using old O gauge and vice versa. I have a Picard Novelty Company HO scale Sheffield's milk reefer, and an O Scale sheffield milk car by Westbrook, that has been refitted to 3-rail operation. I run the HO scale car with a Varney shorty combine car. The O Scale train runs with a chopped down Walthers combine. Now if I can get a Varney 4-6-0 in O Scale and convert it to 3-rail operation, they will be completely identical. Did a few other consists that way too. So in short, I am hoping someday to make a Navy Yard switcher in HO scale using the Lindsay model. -Steve Neubaum --- On Thu, 6/30/11, louis niederlander <l_niederlander@...> wrote: From: louis niederlander <l_niederlander@...> Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Lindsay HO Stubby To: vintageho@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, June 30, 2011, 1:09 PM   Besides my HO interest, I am a long time member of TCA and collect alot of 3 rail O gauge.   May I suggest looking for the Crayola Crayon train set.  The loco is correct for the paint job you want to do.  These have a cheap dc motor and they go for about 20 bucks.   Regards,   Louis N

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16925	From: 23weldon	Date: 6/30/2011
Subject: Re: Lindsay HO Stubby

Jim and others -- Below is a private email I sent to the seller of that Stubby on ebay.  Also his reply.  The info in my email may be helpful.  Although I'm not any kind of expert on the minutia of that particular kit I have had some experience with them and converting Standard gauge versions to HOn3.   "Hi Ed, it was sold to us as HOn3, but I just compared it to one of our other HO locomotives and it is HO. I will end the auction, and will relist it correctly. Thanks, Eric - a1homefurnishings   "From: esweldon To: a1homefurnishings Subject: Other: esweldon sent a message about HOn3 0-4-0 DIESEL SWITCHER LOCOMOTIVE ENGINE #390326565712 Sent Date: Jun-27-11 17:48:36 PDT Dear a1homefurnishings, Are you quite certain that this is HOn3? The bottom view shows spacing of the wheels on the axle more like HO standard gauge which would make it a Lindsay Stubby. Also the characteristic counterbores in the unique Kemtron frame for the drivers to allow them to be gauged for HOn3 are not visible in your bottom view photo. Kemtron offered a "STUBBY" YARD DIESEL kit in both HO and HOn3 the latter being Kemtron part number L-700-N. This product is illustrated in Kemtron catalogs 5 and 7 and possibly others. Ed Weldon"   I hesitate to elaborate on my experience with "kitbashing" these things since that is a bit off the general purpose of this forum.  But If there is interest here I'll do a "data dump" and post some pics in the Photo section. Ed Weldon

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16926	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 6/30/2011
Subject: Re: Lindsay HO Stubby

The seller is here in beertown, and has a store. I'm tempted to go down and take a look at it. Don ----- Original Message ----- From: "23weldon" <23.weldon@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2011 7:31 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Lindsay HO Stubby Jim and others -- Below is a private email I sent to the seller of that Stubby on ebay. Also his reply. The info in my email may be helpful. Although I'm not any kind of expert on the minutia of that particular kit I have had some experience with them and converting Standard gauge versions to HOn3. "Hi Ed, it was sold to us as HOn3, but I just compared it to one of our other HO locomotives and it is HO. I will end the auction, and will relist it correctly. Thanks, Eric - a1homefurnishings "From: esweldon To: a1homefurnishings Subject: Other: esweldon sent a message about HOn3 0-4-0 DIESEL SWITCHER LOCOMOTIVE ENGINE #390326565712 Sent Date: Jun-27-11 17:48:36 PDT Dear a1homefurnishings, Are you quite certain that this is HOn3? The bottom view shows spacing of the wheels on the axle more like HO standard gauge which would make it a Lindsay Stubby. Also the characteristic counterbores in the unique Kemtron frame for the drivers to allow them to be gauged for HOn3 are not visible in your bottom view photo. Kemtron offered a "STUBBY" YARD DIESEL kit in both HO and HOn3 the latter being Kemtron part number L-700-N. This product is illustrated in Kemtron catalogs 5 and 7 and possibly others. Ed Weldon" I hesitate to elaborate on my experience with "kitbashing" these things since that is a bit off the general purpose of this forum. But If there is interest here I'll do a "data dump" and post some pics in the Photo section. Ed Weldon

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16927	From: jim heckard	Date: 7/1/2011
Subject: Unique Camelback

Now that the bidding is over and someone bought the item I wonder if anyone saw this up for sale or bought it. Talk about a Rube Goldberg. I actually had thought to bid as a conversation piece.        Go to 180686601938    HO Steam Locomotive 0-2-0 Camelback    Read the description how it came about and how it works. Just an HO oddity but unique.                                                                      Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16928	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 7/1/2011
Subject: Re: Unique Camelback

That's actually a bit of history!!! The "Troll & Elfin" was S. Richard Knotts, the layout was featured many times in the Walthers' catalogs over the years, I think was even written up in MR or RMC more than once. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, July 01, 2011 1:54 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Unique Camelback Now that the bidding is over and someone bought the item I wonder if anyone saw this up for sale or bought it. Talk about a Rube Goldberg. I actually had thought to bid as a conversation piece. Go to 180686601938 HO Steam Locomotive 0-2-0 Camelback Read the description how it came about and how it works. Just an HO oddity but unique. Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16929	From: Glenn	Date: 7/1/2011
Subject: Re: Unique Camelback

I recall this--the T&E was frequently in the NMRA Bulletin back in the daze when Whit Towers was editor. gj -----Original Message----- From: Don Dellmann Sent: Friday, July 01, 2011 3:35 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Unique Camelback That's actually a bit of history!!! The "Troll & Elfin" was S. Richard Knotts, the layout was featured many times in the Walthers' catalogs over the years, I think was even written up in MR or RMC more than once. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, July 01, 2011 1:54 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Unique Camelback Now that the bidding is over and someone bought the item I wonder if anyone saw this up for sale or bought it. Talk about a Rube Goldberg. I actually had thought to bid as a conversation piece. Go to 180686601938 HO Steam Locomotive 0-2-0 Camelback Read the description how it came about and how it works. Just an HO oddity but unique. Jim H ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16930	From: John H	Date: 7/2/2011
Subject: Re: Unique Camelback

Yes, a few times in MR and I'm sure RMC also. He had quite a sense of humor and had several entertaining scenes on his layout. One I recall off hand was a cemetery named "Knott's Bury Farm". The kind of thing you and I can recall on a local layout of the past. He also had his opinions. I recall in one article on the building of his layout he referred to installing some switches with the comment (And no, dadgum, I do not mean turnouts). I always considered one of his articles something very enjoyable to read. I do remember his 0-2-0 camelback too. I believe it was in Trackside Photos once. This group certainly helps bring back memories. Pleasant ones and we all have to thank Don for hosting this fascinating group. John Hagen --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > That's actually a bit of history!!! > > The "Troll & Elfin" was S. Richard Knotts, the layout was featured many > times in the Walthers' catalogs over the years, I think was even written up > in MR or RMC more than once. > > Don > > Don Dellmann > don.dellmann@... > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ > http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction > Owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "jim heckard" <jimheck@...> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, July 01, 2011 1:54 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Unique Camelback > > > > > > > > Now that the bidding is over and someone bought the item I wonder > if anyone saw this up for sale or bought it. Talk about a Rube Goldberg. I > actually had thought to bid as a conversation piece. > > Go to 180686601938 HO Steam Locomotive 0-2-0 Camelback Read the > description how it came about and how it works. Just an HO oddity but > unique. > > > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16931	From: jbark76	Date: 7/3/2011
Subject: Varney 4-6-0

I like the idea of matching trains from different scales. The Varney HO Casey Jones 4-6-0 is different from the O Scale B&O prototype, however New One from Japan made an HO version of the B&O B-18 prototype. (Not to be confused with the Blue B&O B-14 by Aristocraft, the one I'm talking about I think was lettered Jersey Central and is black.) It should look identical to the O Scale Varney, General Models, All Nation ten wheeler. By the way, there was a bit about the Varney Ten Wheeler in the June Railroad Model Craftsman "Collector Consist". "Now if I can get a Varney 4-6-0 in O Scale and convert it to 3-rail operation, they will be completely identical."

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16932	From: erieberk	Date: 7/4/2011
Subject: Re: Yellowstone Body

Hi Sean, Well, back from a mini-vacation down at the Jersey Shore last week, and I see I have a lot of catching up to do. I see too, that you received the two Varney Yellowstone cab roof sections I molded for you. Also, that you were surprised in getting them -- my exact intent; I think it's always fun when getting surprises like that. As I mentioned in the note I sent along with it, they're not perfect, but I hope you can make use of one (the slightly thicker one seems to fit better). The front of the cab is meant to rest on top of the boiler backhead, not butting up against it from behind. I'd suggest you build up the cab sides on the boiler to support the cab roof properly, to level it off, with plastic steel or something like Jim H. used to build up his "Beast" boiler. If you get an original Varney roof, you can then knock off that build up. They were cast out of printers' type metal -- mostly lead, but containing also some tin and antimony for hardness (strength) and durability. I actually made the mold several months ago, but was hestitant to pour these pieces as I didn't feel they'd turn out exactly right. I didn't figure that you'd be getting around to building up this engine any too soon anyway, so I knew there was no rush. As it turned out, I was correct in assuming how they'd turn out -- they're not exactly right -- but there was only one way for me to find out, so I went ahead and poured the metal two weeks ago. They're closed -- but no cigar here. Still, I'm hoping they'll do until you find the real thing. If I get a chance, I'll try making another mold, but as I also said in the note, no guarantees that another attempt at making a new mold will produce anything better. In the meantime, I'll keep looking for a Varney roof for you. Not easy to find, but I did find one on eBay myself a few years ago. Enjoy! Ray F. Wetzel --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > Hi Ray! > > I was surprised to see in the mail the other day a package with two small roof > sections molded (in solder?) The one seems to fit pretty well and may work well > with a little clean-up. Thanks so much! It may be a few/many years from now > before i am able to get to this piece, but it is surely better than what i had > before..which was nothing. The shell being rare as it is, it is hard to imagine > I would have come across this missing part any other way. > > I indebted to you for sure! > > Thanks! > > Sean > > > "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario > Andretti! > > > > > ________________________________ > From: erieberk <erieberk@...> > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sat, January 8, 2011 4:10:41 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Yellowstone Body > > > > > Hi Sean, > > I'll give it a shot, in trying to make a mold for this piece. Since it's not > very elaborate nor that big it should be pretty straightforward, but I'll see > how it goes. I've made a few casting before -- one was of the continuation of > the rear portion of a Varney pre-War engine frame which was broke just after the > last driver and missing from there back. Turned out fine; I casted it right > onto the forward section as one piece. No promises here as to whether I'll be > as successful, but I'll see if I can help you on this. > > > As for the third part, I don't have any loose ones right now as whatever I had > I've installed in the boilers, and it's a hammer/press fit. No way of removing > them after they're installed. I'll try to get some pics though, and some > measurements. > > The Varney plans for building the Yellowstone consist of 10 leaves (20 pages) of > paper which I'd be glad to copy for you if you don't mind a wait. My printer > quite a couple weeks ago, and I've been on the lookout for a reasonable > replacement. I could Xerox them at the library if you'd like them sooner, no > problem. You could also go to your Model Railroader magazines, if you have the > May & June 1949 issues as there are plans for the Yellowstone in there two, as a > two-part article with drawings. I'm not sure if it covers everything that > Varney printed in his plans, but it is very good. > > Unless you're planning on using a Pitman DC-90, you shouldn't have to hack > anything away inside the boiler. Varney used that large 6 volt V-1 (much larger > in height than the V-2 that many modelers used later), and that fit without any > clearance problems. > > Ray F.W. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16933	From: erieberk	Date: 7/4/2011
Subject: Re: Yellowstone Body

Sean, I remember mentioning a while back, a third part needed for that Yellowstone boiler, that's needed to mount the front engine. As I've never seen one of those pieces separately, I'd suggest improvising one, unless you feel you want to hold out in hopes of finding one. Many guys who bought just the post-War boiler (No. 1870) from Varney, as seen in the catalog, had to improvise as this piece did not come with the post-War boiler. If it was sold separately, I have no idea of a part number, but my understanding is it only came with the (pre-War) kits. Then too, I'm not even sure if it came with the separate No. 406 pre-War boilers, or not. Best bet would be to use a piece of solid round bar stock of 3/4" brass, cut to only 5/8" long, or so. The plans say to install it into the main casting under the front sand dome, but I find that more precisely, it's better to go a little more forward. It's position also depends on whether one is making a 2-8-8-4 out of it or a 4-6-6-4 (or something similar) out of it, as Varney suggests can also be done. As long as Varney said another wheel arrangement may be made with this boiler, then I find it allowable to do and still keep it as "authentic" Varney. Since you have two boilers, why not make one of each? It seems that for a Yellowstone (2-8-8-4), this piece should be inserted so that it centers at between 3 5/8" and 3 3/4" from the front edge/lip (walkway?) of the boiler. The mounting hole for the front engine is then drilled (& threaded) on this center line. As the hollow in the boiler at this point is deeper than what the 3/4" diameter brass piece requires for proper mounting alignment of the front engine with the rear engine, you need to build this brass piece up from the inside top of the boiler with 1/4" of material (lead or solder works well) to keep this brass piece at the proper distance from the inside of the shell top. Then solder this brass piece to the inside sides of the boiler to hold it in place if it's not a press fit. Hope that makes sense. I'll be sending you a copy of the ten page 8 1/2" x 11" Varney assembly plans that came with the pre-War kits, as soon as I get my printer back from the repair shop (should be by the end of this week, but they're waiting for a part that was on back-order). So hopefully, as soon as I can. Ray F. W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > Hi Ray! > > I was surprised to see in the mail the other day a package with two small roof > sections molded (in solder?) The one seems to fit pretty well and may work well > with a little clean-up. Thanks so much! It may be a few/many years from now > before i am able to get to this piece, but it is surely better than what i had > before..which was nothing. The shell being rare as it is, it is hard to imagine > I would have come across this missing part any other way. > > I indebted to you for sure! > > Thanks! > > Sean > > > "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario > Andretti! > > > > > ________________________________ > From: erieberk <erieberk@...> > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sat, January 8, 2011 4:10:41 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Yellowstone Body > > > > > Hi Sean, > > I'll give it a shot, in trying to make a mold for this piece. Since it's not > very elaborate nor that big it should be pretty straightforward, but I'll see > how it goes. I've made a few casting before -- one was of the continuation of > the rear portion of a Varney pre-War engine frame which was broke just after the > last driver and missing from there back. Turned out fine; I casted it right > onto the forward section as one piece. No promises here as to whether I'll be > as successful, but I'll see if I can help you on this. > > > As for the third part, I don't have any loose ones right now as whatever I had > I've installed in the boilers, and it's a hammer/press fit. No way of removing > them after they're installed. I'll try to get some pics though, and some > measurements. > > The Varney plans for building the Yellowstone consist of 10 leaves (20 pages) of > paper which I'd be glad to copy for you if you don't mind a wait. My printer > quite a couple weeks ago, and I've been on the lookout for a reasonable > replacement. I could Xerox them at the library if you'd like them sooner, no > problem. You could also go to your Model Railroader magazines, if you have the > May & June 1949 issues as there are plans for the Yellowstone in there two, as a > two-part article with drawings. I'm not sure if it covers everything that > Varney printed in his plans, but it is very good. > > Unless you're planning on using a Pitman DC-90, you shouldn't have to hack > anything away inside the boiler. Varney used that large 6 volt V-1 (much larger > in height than the V-2 that many modelers used later), and that fit without any > clearance problems. > > Ray F.W. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16934	From: bitlerisvj@hotmail.com	Date: 7/5/2011
Subject: What I have been up to lately

Hi Vintage HO folks, I just uploaded some photos. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/album/801906017/pic/list  I needed a break from building the layout so, spent a few weeks in a frenzied building session.  I ended up with 5 cars ready for the layout.  Only one of which was already built, but in dire  need of refurbishing.  In addition I posted a couple of pictures of my Ostuco Gondola, courtesy of a Walthers Undecorated USRA 46 foot Gondola.  I should have purchased 2, because now there aren't any more.    I used the fantastic decals provided to us by John Hagen, they were GREAT!.  The only suggestion I could make is that the red stripe could be a half inch or so longer.  I stretched them a bit too much, no matter how much I used Decal Solvent, but I still had to touch up the stripe a bit.  Badger Modelflex Gloss Red did the job perfectly, in case anyone else has that issue.  The loading structure wasn't too bad to build.  I had to make my own square tubing out of two pieces of evergreen channel.  The verticals were standard evergreen I beams.  The railings were a bit of a job, but I am decent at soldering, so that didn't take too long. The two 8 Hatch Reefers are Ambroid kits.  The one on the left is a kit I picked up at an NMRA National and was an old kit.  The decals fell apart on me when I tried using them.  Basically, the lettering just came off the film.  I was fortunate that TMR distributing had Dry Transfers that fit the job.  You can see the difference in the lettering between the 2 cars.  I picked up the car on the right at a train show for $4, but it was in rough shape.  Several of the roof ribs were missing as were some underfloor cross members.  The doors were incorrectly painted silver and lots of paint was chipped off all over the car.  I was able to create new roof ribs from styrene and of course the floor cross members were just stripwood.  I was lucky that the new Floquil Boxcar Red was a dead on match to the paint, so I was able to touch up without destroying the lettering.  I did have to use Walthers Solvaset on the old decals that were already applied to the car to get them to snuggle in.  Once the car was cleaned up and touched up, some Dullcoat made it just about perfect.  I STRONGLY DO NOT recommend the use of Ambroid glue as this car was built using it and parts just kept falling off.  I took off ALL of the roof ribs to make sure I kept the losses to a minimum.  I then cleaned them up and reattached using CA.  Basically I totally rebuilt the roof and floor.  The remainder of the car was in good shape.  I was able to remove the doors, due to the Ambroid cement used and clean them up.  With all of the great adhesives available today, I would relegate Ambroid cement for balsa wood model airplanes.  I noticed that I need to work on the Ambroid Caboose a bit.  I didn't notice the loose facia and the funky hand grab on the cupola until I saw the pictures.  I will make sure that is fixed.  Building this kit was a big job.  It was another old kit I picked up at an NMRA Convention and the wood was pretty bad.  It wasn't warped, but definitely had moisture damage.  I suspect it was in a  damp basement.  I was not able to using any of the wire that came with the kit, since it was totally rusted.  I was very careful with the wood and put several coats of Behr Sanding Sealer.  I expect it should be fine.  While I was (AHEM) already working on stuff, I figured I may as well go ahead and build one of my Resin kits that were on the shelf.  The F&C Gondola was pretty much a true pleasure to build.  I needed something easy by then.  VBG! Regards, Vic Bitleris

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16936	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 7/5/2011
Subject: Re: What I have been up to lately

Not sure what's going on either, this message showed all the code. In any event, just go to the group home page and click on "new photos", they'll come right up. Looking VERY good, I'm jealous. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: <bitlerisvj@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2011 1:15 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: What I have been up to lately I am not sure why the link to the photos is bad. Let me try again. <../../../../message/Hi%20Vintage%20HO%20folks,%20I%20just%20uploaded%20\ <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/album/801906017/pic/list\ %20> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/album/801906017/pic/list (text deleted)

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16937	From: Richard White	Date: 7/5/2011
Subject: Old Hobbytown power chassis

Attachments : Hobbytown F-3 chassis .jpg Hello- I obtained an old Hobbytown Power Chassis (#97408F) at the TCA meet in Sacramento last week. It appears to be for an F3 or F7, and seems to be in "like new," never used condition, in the original box. There was no instruction sheet. There are, however, two problems: (1) as shown in the attachment (photo taken from a similar unit on EBay), a connector piece is missing, and (2) there are two small lugs on the frame that interfere with the installation of the diecast fuel tanks. Can anyone help me obtain the missing piece, and offer advice on the interfering lugs (file them off??)? As always, I appreciate the help and advice I obtain from fellow members of this forum. Regards- Richard White

@@attachment@@

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16938	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 7/5/2011
Subject: Re: Old Hobbytown power chassis [1 Attachment]

Hello Richard. From looking at the following diagram, it seems you need part #2056, Nylon Universal Drive Rod, (in other drawings it is #2069). http://www.hoseeker.net/hobbytown/hobbytownchassiskitrpg1.jpg You can look in eBay regularly and sometimes there are various parts offered.  If your motor to drive line is coupled using rubber tubing, that is the OOOLD version.  The more recent ones used a universal setup per the drawing I point you to.  That setup usually does come on eBay regularly and may also be available from Micro Mark.  The coupling you need is different from these parts, so it may be ab issue trying to find it.  Maybe someone knows somebody with access to Hobbytown parts?  Regarding the ears, if they interfere, my take is cut them off.  What kind of body are you trying to use this on?  Since you mention die cast tanks, is it a die cast body?  There are other ways to mount the chassis to the loco body.  You may have to come up with something for that on your own. Good luck and regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageho@yahoogroups.com From: toytrain13@... Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2011 18:26:24 -0700 Subject: [vintageHO] Old Hobbytown power chassis [1 Attachment]   [Attachment(s) from Richard White included below] Hello- I obtained an old Hobbytown Power Chassis (#97408F) at the TCA meet in Sacramento last week. It appears to be for an F3 or F7, and seems to be in "like new," never used condition, in the original box. There was no instruction sheet. There are, however, two problems: (1) as shown in the attachment (photo taken from a similar unit on EBay), a connector piece is missing, and (2) there are two small lugs on the frame that interfere with the installation of the diecast fuel tanks. Can anyone help me obtain the missing piece, and offer advice on the interfering lugs (file them off??)? As always, I appreciate the help and advice I obtain from fellow members of this forum. Regards- Richard White

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16939	From: jake_iv@juno.com	Date: 7/5/2011
Subject: Re: Old Hobbytown power chassis [1 Attachment]

Dear Richard,   As for the coupling - I have a couple that might work for you - send me a mail address by direct email - not through the forum.  I don't remember who made the couplings that I have and I've had them in my parts box for at least 25 years but I think they will work for you.    For the lugs- - - - you can cut a slot in the tanks and use the lugs as a mount or cut them off and use something like JB Weld to mount the tanks. Stay happy. Jake Bechtel Gadsden, AL

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16940	From: cwrailman	Date: 7/5/2011
Subject: Re: Old Hobbytown power chassis

Richard, Worse case scenario. Get a piece of plastic tubing to the same diameter from you local hobby shop, cut one slot into it with a zona saw, cut it to the proper length and cut the opposite side slot with the zona saw. I have done this for several such projects and it worked. I have also modified a NWSL coupling to do the same. Denny Janitor in training, CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Richard White <toytrain13@...> wrote: > > > > > > Hello- I obtained an old Hobbytown Power Chassis (#97408F) at the TCA meet in Sacramento last week. It appears to be for an F3 or F7, and seems to be in "like new," never used condition, in the original box. There was no instruction sheet. There are, however, two problems: (1) as shown in the attachment (photo taken from a similar unit on EBay), a connector piece is missing, and (2) there are two small lugs on the frame that interfere with the installation of the diecast fuel tanks. Can anyone help me obtain the missing piece, and offer advice on the interfering lugs (file them off??)? As always, I appreciate the help and advice I obtain from fellow members of this forum. Regards- Richard White >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16941	From: Glenn	Date: 7/6/2011
Subject: Re: Old Hobbytown power chassis [1 Attachment]

the shaft couplings are available from Micro Mark—a small hacksaw will take care of the  lugs.   I still have a couple of these drives in Varney shells—real brutes—I used the “Holland” can motors –and mine are “Multi-Drive” units that drive 2 units from one motor.  gj   From: Richard White Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2011 6:26 PM To: Jim Heckard Subject: [vintageHO] Old Hobbytown power chassis [1 Attachment]   [Attachment(s) from Richard White included below] Hello- I obtained an old Hobbytown Power Chassis (#97408F) at the TCA meet in Sacramento last week. It appears to be for an F3 or F7, and seems to be in "like new," never used condition, in the original box. There was no instruction sheet. There are, however, two problems: (1) as shown in the attachment (photo taken from a similar unit on EBay), a connector piece is missing, and (2) there are two small lugs on the frame that interfere with the installation of the diecast fuel tanks. Can anyone help me obtain the missing piece, and offer advice on the interfering lugs (file them off??)? As always, I appreciate the help and advice I obtain from fellow members of this forum. Regards- Richard White

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16942	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 7/6/2011
Subject: Re: Old Hobbytown power chassis

I don't believe the Micro Mark couplings are correct.  Here is the Micro Mark ad. http://www.micromark.com/Universal-Couplings-Set-Of-4,8435.html These are perfect for replacing the old rubber tube, but the double ended universal is not in this set.  Maybe one of the single ended ones can be modified?  It would need to be shortened, drilled out and a new slot cut into it at 90 degrees from the slot on the other side.  I just took a close look at my Hobbytown F-7 chassis.  The price for the Micro Mark set is actually a very decent price. Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageho@yahoogroups.com From: glenn476@... Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2011 23:32:12 -0700 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Old Hobbytown power chassis   the shaft couplings are available from Micro Mark—a small hacksaw will take care of the  lugs.   I still have a couple of these drives in Varney shells—real brutes—I used the “Holland” can motors –and mine are “Multi-Drive” units that drive 2 units from one motor.  gj   From: Richard White Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2011 6:26 PM To: Jim Heckard Subject: [vintageHO] Old Hobbytown power chassis [1 Attachment]   [Attachment(s) from Richard White included below] Hello- I obtained an old Hobbytown Power Chassis (#97408F) at the TCA meet in Sacramento last week. It appears to be for an F3 or F7, and seems to be in "like new," never used condition, in the original box. There was no instruction sheet. There are, however, two problems: (1) as shown in the attachment (photo taken from a similar unit on EBay), a connector piece is missing, and (2) there are two small lugs on the frame that interfere with the installation of the diecast fuel tanks. Can anyone help me obtain the missing piece, and offer advice on the interfering lugs (file them off??)? As always, I appreciate the help and advice I obtain from fellow members of this forum. Regards- Richard White

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16943	From: Glenn	Date: 7/6/2011
Subject: Re: Old Hobbytown power chassis

I believe that the Micro Mark couplings are the old Hobbytown ones—at least the ones I have are.  gj   From: Victor Bitleris Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2011 6:24 AM To: vintageho@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Old Hobbytown power chassis   I don't believe the Micro Mark couplings are correct.  Here is the Micro Mark ad. http://www.micromark.com/Universal-Couplings-Set-Of-4,8435.html These are perfect for replacing the old rubber tube, but the double ended universal is not in this set.  Maybe one of the single ended ones can be modified?  It would need to be shortened, drilled out and a new slot cut into it at 90 degrees from the slot on the other side.  I just took a close look at my Hobbytown F-7 chassis.  The price for the Micro Mark set is actually a very decent price. Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageho@yahoogroups.com From: glenn476@... Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2011 23:32:12 -0700 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Old Hobbytown power chassis     the shaft couplings are available from Micro Mark—a small hacksaw will take care of the  lugs.   I still have a couple of these drives in Varney shells—real brutes—I used the “Holland” can motors –and mine are “Multi-Drive” units that drive 2 units from one motor.  gj   From: Richard White Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2011 6:26 PM To: Jim Heckard Subject: [vintageHO] Old Hobbytown power chassis [1 Attachment]   [Attachment(s) from Richard White included below] Hello- I obtained an old Hobbytown Power Chassis (#97408F) at the TCA meet in Sacramento last week. It appears to be for an F3 or F7, and seems to be in "like new," never used condition, in the original box. There was no instruction sheet. There are, however, two problems: (1) as shown in the attachment (photo taken from a similar unit on EBay), a connector piece is missing, and (2) there are two small lugs on the frame that interfere with the installation of the diecast fuel tanks. Can anyone help me obtain the missing piece, and offer advice on the interfering lugs (file them off??)? As always, I appreciate the help and advice I obtain from fellow members of this forum. Regards- Richard White

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16944	From: Dick	Date: 7/6/2011
Subject: Old Dry Transfers

Does anyone know a way to rejuvenate a set of very old dry transfers that have lost their stickiness? I figure I will only get one chance at applying them, and the transfers appear to be custom ones. So I'd like to improve the odds. Thanks. Dick Moessner

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16945	From: louis niederlander	Date: 7/6/2011
Subject: Re: Old Dry Transfers

I use dry transfers to restore old pre war Lionel Trains.  I've been told that taking them up to 80 or 90 degrees reactivates them.   Maybe just sitting them in the sun would do it.  It was 88 here in Ohio today.   And as a side note, a story.  I was watching Mr Kim of Ajin repair a GN tender with the goat emblem.  It appeared to be a dry transfer but he wetted it first like a decal, them he rubbed it on.  Looked better than silk screen.  I asked him where he got the transfers.  He told me very firmly "downtown".  Yeah, right, theres only 10 million people in Seoul Korea.  I knew I was not going to get an answer.   Regards,   Louis N     > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > From: rb_train@... > Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2011 00:10:41 +0000 > Subject: [vintageHO] Old Dry Transfers > > Does anyone know a way to rejuvenate a set of very old dry transfers that have lost their stickiness? I figure I will only get one chance at applying them, and the transfers appear to be custom ones. So I'd like to improve the odds. > > Thanks. > > Dick Moessner

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16946	From: Fred Hultberg	Date: 7/7/2011
Subject: Rejuvenating Old Dry Transfers

Dry transfers use a wax-based adhesive, which can dry out a bit but the usual problem is that they pick up fingerprints and other detritis(sp?) as they age and are exposed to air, etc.   The best way to clean that up and soften the adhesive is to give the dry transfer adhesive side a quick swipe with a paper towell(or cloth) very slightly moistened with Xylene(or Xylol), which sould be available in small quantities from any good hardware store.   These solvents also have other uses, so your investment is not wasted. Caution: try to keep your hands/fingers away from contact with the solvent - health hazards. Light exposure should do no harm, but a "word to the wise," OK?   Fred Hultberg(resicent etchIng wizard, Fotocut®)

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16947	From: John H	Date: 7/7/2011
Subject: Re: What I have been up to lately

Vic, Thanks for your endorsement of the OSTUCO decals. FYI, I will be happy to supply extra stripes to anyone who requests some. I'll print out some sheets of stripes when I get home (out of town this week) and mail a couple out via first class mail free of charge. Also, I will aways replace damaged decals for the cost of postage only. Yes, the undecorated cars disappeared from the Walthers Catalog, but they sill make the decorated ones, with or with out Grab irons installed (for additional cost of course). Seeing the photos of Vic's very neat model, their gondola looks perfect for this bashing project. Thanks Vic for posting the photos. John Hagen OBS-CALS the obscure deal people --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, bitlerisvj@... wrote: > > Hi Vintage HO folks, > I just uploaded some photos. > > I needed a break from building the layout so, spent a few weeks in a > frenzied building session. I ended up with 5 cars ready for the layout. > Only one of which was already built, but in dire need of refurbishing. > In addition I posted a couple of pictures of my Ostuco Gondola, courtesy > of a Walthers Undecorated USRA 46 foot Gondola. I should have purchased > 2, because now there aren't any more. [:((] I used the fantastic > decals provided to us by John Hagen, they were GREAT!. The only > suggestion I could make is that the red stripe could be a half inch or > so longer. I stretched them a bit too much, no matter how much I used > Decal Solvent, but I still had to touch up the stripe a bit. Badger > Modelflex Gloss Red did the job perfectly, in case anyone else has that > issue. The loading structure wasn't too bad to build. I had to make my > own square tubing out of two pieces of evergreen channel. The verticals > were standard evergreen I beams. The railings were a bit of a job, but > I am decent at soldering, so that didn't take too long. > The two 8 Hatch Reefers are Ambroid kits. The one on the left is a kit > I picked up at an NMRA National and was an old kit. The decals fell > apart on me when I tried using them. Basically, the lettering just came > off the film. I was fortunate that TMR distributing had Dry Transfers > that fit the job. You can see the difference in the lettering between > the 2 cars. I picked up the car on the right at a train show for $4, > but it was in rough shape. Several of the roof ribs were missing as > were some underfloor cross members. The doors were incorrectly painted > silver and lots of paint was chipped off all over the car. I was able > to create new roof ribs from styrene and of course the floor cross > members were just stripwood. I was lucky that the new Floquil Boxcar > Red was a dead on match to the paint, so I was able to touch up without > destroying the lettering. I did have to use Walthers Solvaset on the > old decals that were already applied to the car to get them to snuggle > in. Once the car was cleaned up and touched up, some Dullcoat made it > just about perfect. I STRONGLY DO NOT recommend the use of Ambroid glue > as this car was built using it and parts just kept falling off. I took > off ALL of the roof ribs to make sure I kept the losses to a minimum. I > then cleaned them up and reattached using CA. Basically I totally > rebuilt the roof and floor. The remainder of the car was in good shape. > I was able to remove the doors, due to the Ambroid cement used and clean > them up. With all of the great adhesives available today, I would > relegate Ambroid cement for balsa wood model airplanes. [:)] > I noticed that I need to work on the Ambroid Caboose a bit. I didn't > notice the loose facia and the funky hand grab on the cupola until I saw > the pictures. I will make sure that is fixed. Building this kit was a > big job. It was another old kit I picked up at an NMRA Convention and > the wood was pretty bad. It wasn't warped, but definitely had moisture > damage. I suspect it was in a damp basement. I was not able to using > any of the wire that came with the kit, since it was totally rusted. I > was very careful with the wood and put several coats of Behr Sanding > Sealer. I expect it should be fine. > While I was (AHEM) already working on stuff, I figured I may as well go > ahead and build one of my Resin kits that were on the shelf. The F&C > Gondola was pretty much a true pleasure to build. I needed something > easy by then. VBG! > Regards, Vic Bitleris >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16948	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 7/7/2011
Subject: Re: What I have been up to lately

THANK YOU JOHN!  for making these wonderful decals available to us.  I plan on getting one of the decorated cars from Walthers and stripping it, then repaint in the usual manner.  I hope Walthers cars take to Brake Fluid ok?  Brake Fluid is my favorite paint stripper for styrene models.  I had a great time making this one. By the way, I did not realize the grab irons came in the old horn hook coupler packaging and thought they were missing so I used Tichy grabs.  When I looked closely at the horn hook package afterward, I saw the grabs in there. Thanks and regards Vic Bitleris Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: sprinthag@... Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2011 22:29:01 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Re: What I have been up to lately   Vic, Thanks for your endorsement of the OSTUCO decals. FYI, I will be happy to supply extra stripes to anyone who requests some. I'll print out some sheets of stripes when I get home (out of town this week) and mail a couple out via first class mail free of charge. Also, I will aways replace damaged decals for the cost of postage only. Yes, the undecorated cars disappeared from the Walthers Catalog, but they sill make the decorated ones, with or with out Grab irons installed (for additional cost of course). Seeing the photos of Vic's very neat model, their gondola looks perfect for this bashing project. Thanks Vic for posting the photos. John Hagen OBS-CALS the obscure deal people --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, bitlerisvj@... wrote: > > Hi Vintage HO folks, > I just uploaded some photos. > > I needed a break from building the layout so, spent a few weeks in a > frenzied building session. I ended up with 5 cars ready for the layout. > Only one of which was already built, but in dire need of refurbishing. > In addition I posted a couple of pictures of my Ostuco Gondola, courtesy > of a Walthers Undecorated USRA 46 foot Gondola. I should have purchased > 2, because now there aren't any more. [:((] I used the fantastic > decals provided to us by John Hagen, they were GREAT!. The only > suggestion I could make is that the red stripe could be a half inch or > so longer. I stretched them a bit too much, no matter how much I used > Decal Solvent, but I still had to touch up the stripe a bit. Badger > Modelflex Gloss Red did the job perfectly, in case anyone else has that > issue. The loading structure wasn't too bad to build. I had to make my > own square tubing out of two pieces of evergreen channel. The verticals > were standard evergreen I beams. The railings were a bit of a job, but > I am decent at soldering, so that didn't take too long. > The two 8 Hatch Reefers are Ambroid kits. The one on the left is a kit > I picked up at an NMRA National and was an old kit. The decals fell > apart on me when I tried using them. Basically, the lettering just came > off the film. I was fortunate that TMR distributing had Dry Transfers > that fit the job. You can see the difference in the lettering between > the 2 cars. I picked up the car on the right at a train show for $4, > but it was in rough shape. Several of the roof ribs were missing as > were some underfloor cross members. The doors were incorrectly painted > silver and lots of paint was chipped off all over the car. I was able > to create new roof ribs from styrene and of course the floor cross > members were just stripwood. I was lucky that the new Floquil Boxcar > Red was a dead on match to the paint, so I was able to touch up without > destroying the lettering. I did have to use Walthers Solvaset on the > old decals that were already applied to the car to get them to snuggle > in. Once the car was cleaned up and touched up, some Dullcoat made it > just about perfect. I STRONGLY DO NOT recommend the use of Ambroid glue > as this car was built using it and parts just kept falling off. I took > off ALL of the roof ribs to make sure I kept the losses to a minimum. I > then cleaned them up and reattached using CA. Basically I totally > rebuilt the roof and floor. The remainder of the car was in good shape. > I was able to remove the doors, due to the Ambroid cement used and clean > them up. With all of the great adhesives available today, I would > relegate Ambroid cement for balsa wood model airplanes. [:)] > I noticed that I need to work on the Ambroid Caboose a bit. I didn't > notice the loose facia and the funky hand grab on the cupola until I saw > the pictures. I will make sure that is fixed. Building this kit was a > big job. It was another old kit I picked up at an NMRA Convention and > the wood was pretty bad. It wasn't warped, but definitely had moisture > damage. I suspect it was in a damp basement. I was not able to using > any of the wire that came with the kit, since it was totally rusted. I > was very careful with the wood and put several coats of Behr Sanding > Sealer. I expect it should be fine. > While I was (AHEM) already working on stuff, I figured I may as well go > ahead and build one of my Resin kits that were on the shelf. The F&C > Gondola was pretty much a true pleasure to build. I needed something > easy by then. VBG! > Regards, Vic Bitleris >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16950	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 7/8/2011
Subject: Re: Fwd: FW: Luve it!!!

So, what is this garbage all about? > >  If you have already seen it, enjoy it again, if this is the first viewing enjoy.... >   >    >   > >   > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJ-2YtHn2dU >   >   >   >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16951	From: Don Grant	Date: 7/8/2011
Subject: Re: Fwd: FW: Luve it!!!

My error.......Sorry! Don --- On Fri, 7/8/11, trainsnwrcs <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: From: trainsnwrcs <idioticyahoo@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Fwd: FW: Luve it!!! To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, July 8, 2011, 6:21 PM So, what is this garbage all about? > >  If you have already seen it, enjoy it again, if this is the first viewing enjoy.... >   >    >   > >   > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJ-2YtHn2dU >   >   >   > ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings:     Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join     (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email:     vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com     vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:     vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16952	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 7/8/2011
Subject: New acquisition

Hi guys, Looks like I found me a ghost: http://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/e11000.m43.l1123/7?euid=55e1afa345044ae59f650cfbfa90c75b&loc=http%3A%2F%2Fcgi.ebay.com%2Fws%2FeBayISAPI.dll%3FViewItem%26item%3D160614233411%26ssPageName%3DADME%3AB%3ABCA%3AUS%3A1123 Sean Sent from my iPhone

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16953	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 7/8/2011
Subject: Re: Fwd: FW: Luve it!!!

Please disregard this thread. Mr, Grant has apologized for his error and the original post has been deleted from the message achive. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Grant" <grantdono@...> To: "John Ferrera" <jaferrera@...>; "Bob Hatch" <tulebob@...>; "John Strebel" <johnstrebel@...> Cc: "VintageHO" <vintageho@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, July 08, 2011 8:08 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Fwd: FW: Luve it!!!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16954	From: Railroad Modeler	Date: 7/8/2011
Subject: Re: New acquisition

Nice find, Sean!!   I’ve seen quite a few pieces of nice, old stock come up lately; this is definitely one of them! It *so* figures that all the neat stuff shows up when I don’t have money to buy them!!   Granted, we all love the vintage pieces, but the ones that are the most appealing to me are the “one-off, hand-made by somebody’s brother” pieces; that odd coke bottle Jim bought, the 0-2-0 that just sold, this car, even that $20,000 Australian piece. Like there is a “thumbprint” of the builder’s modeling “soul” that gets infused into these artifacts, and I find that appealing…   Can’t wait to see more pix of this one!   Ciao,   Ken B Economically Frustrated Collector of Handmade Vintage Pieces ;-)     From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sean Naylor Sent: Friday, July 08, 2011 8:44 PM To: vintageho@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] New acquisition Hi guys, Looks like I found me a ghost: http://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/e11000.m43.l1123/7?euid=55e1afa345044ae59f650cfbfa90c75b&loc=http%3A%2F%2Fcgi.ebay.com%2Fws%2FeBayISAPI.dll%3FViewItem%26item%3D160614233411%26ssPageName%3DADME%3AB%3ABCA%3AUS%3A1123 Sean

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16955	From: Jim Waterman	Date: 7/9/2011
Subject: Re: Fwd: FW: Luve it!!!

I'm still looking for the trains. I thought it was 'Field of Steam' Jim

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16956	From: ragc4x5x7	Date: 7/9/2011
Subject: Hello! New to this site...

An getting back to HO layouts after being away for 25 years raising my family and my business. Now I am trying to find the time to pull all those cars out of the basement and work on them... http://www.flickr.com/photos/31561521@N04/5917025681/ Not sure how to post images here. This is a wood and metal Old Timer Derrick kit from Red Ball

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16957	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 7/9/2011
Subject: Re: Hello! New to this site...

----- Original Message ----- From: "ragc4x5x7" <ragc4x5x7@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2011 8:05 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Hello! New to this site... > An getting back to HO layouts after being away for 25 years raising my > family and my business. Now I am trying to find the time to pull all those > cars out of the basement and work on them... > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/31561521@N04/5917025681/ > > Not sure how to post images here. This is a wood and metal Old Timer > Derrick kit from Red Ball I like. That's one of the kits that's always been on my "short list" to find. Welcome to the group, hope you enjoy the ride. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16958	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 7/9/2011
Subject: Re: Hello! New to this site...

Nice to see you here Rafael!   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: ragc4x5x7 <ragc4x5x7@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, July 9, 2011 9:05:45 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Hello! New to this site...   An getting back to HO layouts after being away for 25 years raising my family and my business. Now I am trying to find the time to pull all those cars out of the basement and work on them... http://www.flickr.com/photos/31561521@N04/5917025681/ Not sure how to post images here. This is a wood and metal Old Timer Derrick kit from Red Ball

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16959	From: bearbon	Date: 7/9/2011
Subject: Re: Lindsay HO Stubby

Re: Lindsay/Kemtron "Stubby" - I still have available some original old stock body shells for the Stubby. I've listed them on eBay from time to time and they usually go for $5 - $15. If anyone needs one let me know. These are just the shells only. No other parts. > For a while they were selling upwards of $80 or more when they came up for auction. Lately they barely fetch $45 when they end. My last one sold for just that and it also had the Kemtron detail kit to boot. Decided to keep my other one for good after that. >  Sean > For what it's worth, the Lindsay Stubby looks just like my Dad's old Lionel #51 Navy Yard switcher. All that it would need would be a 2-wheel pilot and trailing truck added to either end! > > I saw a picture of the prototype of the Navy Yard switcher once, and it didn't have the pilot/trailer trucks. Seems they were added to the Lionel model for stability or something. > > I would love to find one of these and paint it up for the Brooklyn Navy Yard! I saw one at TrainFest but the seller wanted a mint for it. > > -Steve Neubaum

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16960	From: bearbon	Date: 7/9/2011
Subject: Re: Old Hobbytown power chassis

Richard, I can help you with the parts you need. Send me an email. The lugs on the frame can just be snapped off with pliers. These frames were designed to fit many different bodies so all the extra tabs, lugs and protrusions can be used or removed as needed. Hope this helps, Howard Mosley (Bear Locomotive/hobbytown of Boston) > Hello- I obtained an old Hobbytown Power Chassis (#97408F) at the TCA meet in Sacramento last week. It appears to be for an F3 or F7, and seems to be in "like new," never used condition, in the original box. There was no instruction sheet. There are, however, two problems: (1) as shown in the attachment (photo taken from a similar unit on EBay), a connector piece is missing, and (2) there are two small lugs on the frame that interfere with the installation of the diecast fuel tanks. Can anyone help me obtain the missing piece, and offer advice on the interfering lugs (file them off??)? As always, I appreciate the help and advice I obtain from fellow members of this forum. Regards- Richard White >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16961	From: Dr. Robert Driggers	Date: 7/9/2011
Subject: Rivarossi parts

If anyone can help with the following Rivarossi parts it would be a great help. Washers and crankpins for 4-6-2. Pilot for B&O 2-8-8-0 or after market replacement. Thanks, Robert

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16962	From: Richard White	Date: 7/9/2011
Subject: Re: Old Hobbytown power chassis

Hi Howard- I could really use one of those universal joints, as indicated in my photo. Is Bear Locomotive in possesion of the remainder of the Hobbytown inventory? I remember that several years ago someone (you??) was selling NOS Hobbytown power chassis's on EBay. I hadn't gotten into Hobbytown at that point, but now I find Hobbytown E7's appropriate to pull my recently constructed Blue Line and American Beauty cars. I have a couple of these E7's needing rebuilding- when I get time!! So let me know what to send you for the part, and postage. And do you have a parts for sale list? Regards- Richard   To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: bearbon@... Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2011 15:03:22 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Old Hobbytown power chassis   Richard, I can help you with the parts you need. Send me an email. The lugs on the frame can just be snapped off with pliers. These frames were designed to fit many different bodies so all the extra tabs, lugs and protrusions can be used or removed as needed. Hope this helps, Howard Mosley (Bear Locomotive/hobbytown of Boston) > Hello- I obtained an old Hobbytown Power Chassis (#97408F) at the TCA meet in Sacramento last week. It appears to be for an F3 or F7, and seems to be in "like new," never used condition, in the original box. There was no instruction sheet. There are, however, two problems: (1) as shown in the attachment (photo taken from a similar unit on EBay), a connector piece is missing, and (2) there are two small lugs on the frame that interfere with the installation of the diecast fuel tanks. Can anyone help me obtain the missing piece, and offer advice on the interfering lugs (file them off??)? As always, I appreciate the help and advice I obtain from fellow members of this forum. Regards- Richard White >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16963	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 7/9/2011
Subject: Penn-Line Frame and Mantua Wabash Gondola Body?

Group, The owner of the hobby shop recently gave me an interesting gondola: It has a Mantua 40' Wabash black gondola body, and was mounted onto a Penn-Line frame. Fit seems very good, like they belonged together... He thinks he has seen other similar cars, and even I remember something to the effect of a setup like this. Any ideas? Were there any commerically produced models of this nature, or was this just some hobbyist using his resources when repairing a car? I have since removed the crystalizing and slightly warped Penn-Line frame, and epoxied a good Mantua die cast frame under the car, effectively making it "all" Mantua. -Steve Neubaum

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16964	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 7/9/2011
Subject: Re: Penn-Line Frame and Mantua Wabash Gondola Body?

I have sort of the opposite. I have a Penn-Line boxcar body on a Mantua frame, and the drive pins fit through the holes in the frame into the body perfectly. > Group, > > The owner of the hobby shop recently gave me an interesting gondola: It has a Mantua 40' Wabash black gondola body, and was mounted onto a Penn-Line frame. Fit seems very good, like they belonged together... > > He thinks he has seen other similar cars, and even I remember something to the effect of a setup like this. > > Any ideas? Were there any commerically produced models of this nature, or was this just some hobbyist using his resources when repairing a car? I have since removed the crystalizing and slightly warped Penn-Line frame, and epoxied a good Mantua die cast frame under the car, effectively making it "all" Mantua. > > -Steve Neubaum >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16965	From: Rich C	Date: 7/10/2011
Subject: Re: What I have been up to lately

Vic, Excellent job on the OSTUCO gon. On stripping Walthers cars, I use 91% Isopropyl Alcohol, from your local drug store etc. The problem with the "new" brake fluid is the ingredients have changed, so I don't know what the results would be, could make the body brittle. I discovered that when using Pine Sol.   Rich Christie --- On Thu, 7/7/11, Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> wrote: From: Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: What I have been up to lately To: vintageho@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, July 7, 2011, 8:15 PM   THANK YOU JOHN!  for making these wonderful decals available to us.  I plan on getting one of the decorated cars from Walthers and stripping it, then repaint in the usual manner.  I hope Walthers cars take to Brake Fluid ok?  Brake Fluid is my favorite paint stripper for styrene models.  I had a great time making this one. By the way, I did not realize the grab irons came in the old horn hook coupler packaging and thought they were missing so I used Tichy grabs.  When I looked closely at the horn hook package afterward, I saw the grabs in there. Thanks and regards Vic Bitleris Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: sprinthag@... Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2011 22:29:01 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Re: What I have been up to lately   Vic, Thanks for your endorsement of the OSTUCO decals. FYI, I will be happy to supply extra stripes to anyone who requests some. I'll print out some sheets of stripes when I get home (out of town this week) and mail a couple out via first class mail free of charge. Also, I will aways replace damaged decals for the cost of postage only. Yes, the undecorated cars disappeared from the Walthers Catalog, but they sill make the decorated ones, with or with out Grab irons installed (for additional cost of course). Seeing the photos of Vic's very neat model, their gondola looks perfect for this bashing project. Thanks Vic for posting the photos. John Hagen OBS-CALS the obscure deal people --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, bitlerisvj@... wrote: > > Hi Vintage HO folks, > I just uploaded some photos. > > I needed a break from building the layout so, spent a few weeks in a > frenzied building session. I ended up with 5 cars ready for the layout. > Only one of which was already built, but in dire need of refurbishing. > In addition I posted a couple of pictures of my Ostuco Gondola, courtesy > of a Walthers Undecorated USRA 46 foot Gondola. I should have purchased > 2, because now there aren't any more. [:((] I used the fantastic > decals provided to us by John Hagen, they were GREAT!. The only > suggestion I could make is that the red stripe could be a half inch or > so longer. I stretched them a bit too much, no matter how much I used > Decal Solvent, but I still had to touch up the stripe a bit. Badger > Modelflex Gloss Red did the job perfectly, in case anyone else has that > issue. The loading structure wasn't too bad to build. I had to make my > own square tubing out of two pieces of evergreen channel. The verticals > were standard evergreen I beams. The railings were a bit of a job, but > I am decent at soldering, so that didn't take too long. > The two 8 Hatch Reefers are Ambroid kits. The one on the left is a kit > I picked up at an NMRA National and was an old kit. The decals fell > apart on me when I tried using them. Basically, the lettering just came > off the film. I was fortunate that TMR distributing had Dry Transfers > that fit the job. You can see the difference in the lettering between > the 2 cars. I picked up the car on the right at a train show for $4, > but it was in rough shape. Several of the roof ribs were missing as > were some underfloor cross members. The doors were incorrectly painted > silver and lots of paint was chipped off all over the car. I was able > to create new roof ribs from styrene and of course the floor cross > members were just stripwood. I was lucky that the new Floquil Boxcar > Red was a dead on match to the paint, so I was able to touch up without > destroying the lettering. I did have to use Walthers Solvaset on the > old decals that were already applied to the car to get them to snuggle > in. Once the car was cleaned up and touched up, some Dullcoat made it > just about perfect. I STRONGLY DO NOT recommend the use of Ambroid glue > as this car was built using it and parts just kept falling off. I took > off ALL of the roof ribs to make sure I kept the losses to a minimum. I > then cleaned them up and reattached using CA. Basically I totally > rebuilt the roof and floor. The remainder of the car was in good shape. > I was able to remove the doors, due to the Ambroid cement used and clean > them up. With all of the great adhesives available today, I would > relegate Ambroid cement for balsa wood model airplanes. [:)] > I noticed that I need to work on the Ambroid Caboose a bit. I didn't > notice the loose facia and the funky hand grab on the cupola until I saw > the pictures. I will make sure that is fixed. Building this kit was a > big job. It was another old kit I picked up at an NMRA Convention and > the wood was pretty bad. It wasn't warped, but definitely had moisture > damage. I suspect it was in a damp basement. I was not able to using > any of the wire that came with the kit, since it was totally rusted. I > was very careful with the wood and put several coats of Behr Sanding > Sealer. I expect it should be fine. > While I was (AHEM) already working on stuff, I figured I may as well go > ahead and build one of my Resin kits that were on the shelf. The F&C > Gondola was pretty much a true pleasure to build. I needed something > easy by then. VBG! > Regards, Vic Bitleris >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16966	From: oljoe	Date: 7/10/2011
Subject: Re: What I have been up to lately

Rich.... Well I'll be darned, better yet - that alcohol is cheap, even better. That stuff is also my favorite track cleaner. Joe O'Loughlin

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16967	From: ragc4x5x7	Date: 7/10/2011
Subject: Re: Hello! New to this site...

Thanks! Glad to be here! Rafael --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "ragc4x5x7" <ragc4x5x7@...> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2011 8:05 AM > Subject: [vintageHO] Hello! New to this site... > > > > An getting back to HO layouts after being away for 25 years raising my > > family and my business. Now I am trying to find the time to pull all those > > cars out of the basement and work on them... > > > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/31561521@N04/5917025681/ > > > > Not sure how to post images here. This is a wood and metal Old Timer > > Derrick kit from Red Ball > > I like. That's one of the kits that's always been on my "short list" to > find. > > Welcome to the group, hope you enjoy the ride. > > Don > > Don Dellmann > don.dellmann@... > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ > http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction > Owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16968	From: ragc4x5x7	Date: 7/10/2011
Subject: Re: Hello! New to this site...

Wow! I hope to be able to add something... it will be hard with all the experience I see here! Thanks! Rafael --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > Nice to see you here Rafael! > > Sean > > > "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario > Andretti! > > > > > ________________________________ > From: ragc4x5x7 <ragc4x5x7@...> > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sat, July 9, 2011 9:05:45 AM > Subject: [vintageHO] Hello! New to this site... > > > An getting back to HO layouts after being away for 25 years raising my family > and my business. Now I am trying to find the time to pull all those cars out of > the basement and work on them... > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/31561521@N04/5917025681/ > > Not sure how to post images here. This is a wood and metal Old Timer Derrick > kit from Red Ball >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16969	From: william witte	Date: 7/10/2011
Subject: Re: Penn-Line Frame and Mantua Wabash Gondola Body?

Steve,   Penn Line started marketing train sets in 1955. The 1955 sets contained Fleischmann freight and passenger cars, with black Penn Line stickers applied to the bottom of the cars.   The early 1956 sets contain some Mantua freight cars. Later in the year the Penn Line freight cars appeared.     Penn Line gondolas, box cars and the Wilson reefer are Mantua shells mounted on the old Mantua metal bottom plate, relabeled Penn Line. The cars used die-cast Penn Line freight trucks and were decorated at the Mantua plant.   The C&O hopper and Sinclair tank were produced by Varney.  The caboose shells  are either a Gilbert or Varney  mounted on a metal Penn line bottom plate.   GP-9s and early F-7s are Athearn shells decorated by Athearn mounted on metal Penn Line drives. Later, Penn Line developed their own F-7 shells.   When Hobbyline went out of business, Penn Line obtained their passenger car dies.   Penn Line basically produced steam locomotives, passenger cars, Withcomb deisel switchers and metal flat cars, everything else was sub-contracted out.         From: Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, July 9, 2011 11:16 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Penn-Line Frame and Mantua Wabash Gondola Body?   Group, The owner of the hobby shop recently gave me an interesting gondola: It has a Mantua 40' Wabash black gondola body, and was mounted onto a Penn-Line frame. Fit seems very good, like they belonged together... He thinks he has seen other similar cars, and even I remember something to the effect of a setup like this. Any ideas? Were there any commerically produced models of this nature, or was this just some hobbyist using his resources when repairing a car? I have since removed the crystalizing and slightly warped Penn-Line frame, and epoxied a good Mantua die cast frame under the car, effectively making it "all" Mantua. -Steve Neubaum

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16970	From: jim heckard	Date: 7/10/2011
Subject: Re: Penn-Line Frame and Mantua Wabash Gondola Body?

       Just like to add that Penn Line made their own GG- 1's that later got sold to Varney under Sol Kramer  at auction when PL folded and where also copied by New One, Japan and sold by General Hobbies Corp / HO Train Co. of Philadelphia.                                                             Jim H  ----- Original Message ----- From: william witte To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, July 10, 2011 11:45 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Penn-Line Frame and Mantua Wabash Gondola Body?   Steve,   Penn Line started marketing train sets in 1955. The 1955 sets contained Fleischmann freight and passenger cars, with black Penn Line stickers applied to the bottom of the cars.   The early 1956 sets contain some Mantua freight cars. Later in the year the Penn Line freight cars appeared.     Penn Line gondolas, box cars and the Wilson reefer are Mantua shells mounted on the old Mantua metal bottom plate, relabeled Penn Line. The cars used die-cast Penn Line freight trucks and were decorated at the Mantua plant.   The C&O hopper and Sinclair tank were produced by Varney.  The caboose shells  are either a Gilbert or Varney  mounted on a metal Penn line bottom plate.   GP-9s and early F-7s are Athearn shells decorated by Athearn mounted on metal Penn Line drives. Later, Penn Line developed their own F-7 shells.   When Hobbyline went out of business, Penn Line obtained their passenger car dies.   Penn Line basically produced steam locomotives, passenger cars, Withcomb deisel switchers and metal flat cars, everything else was sub-contracted out.         From: Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, July 9, 2011 11:16 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Penn-Line Frame and Mantua Wabash Gondola Body?   Group, The owner of the hobby shop recently gave me an interesting gondola: It has a Mantua 40' Wabash black gondola body, and was mounted onto a Penn-Line frame. Fit seems very good, like they belonged together... He thinks he has seen other similar cars, and even I remember something to the effect of a setup like this. Any ideas? Were there any commerically produced models of this nature, or was this just some hobbyist using his resources when repairing a car? I have since removed the crystalizing and slightly warped Penn-Line frame, and epoxied a good Mantua die cast frame under the car, effectively making it "all" Mantua. -Steve Neubaum

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16971	From: Fred Hultberg	Date: 7/10/2011
Subject: Re: New Member

Nice pic, Raphael!  Looks a great vintage model.   Welcome to the seven-sided puzzle factory(At least, my collection of loose vintage parts looks that way!).   Fred Hultberg(resident etching wizard, Fotocut®)

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16972	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 7/10/2011
Subject: Re: What I have been up to lately

Thanks for the tip Rich, alcohol will be what I use. Thanks and regards Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: rhcdmc@... Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2011 05:16:56 -0700 Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: What I have been up to lately   Vic, Excellent job on the OSTUCO gon. On stripping Walthers cars, I use 91% Isopropyl Alcohol, from your local drug store etc. The problem with the "new" brake fluid is the ingredients have changed, so I don't know what the results would be, could make the body brittle. I discovered that when using Pine Sol.   Rich Christie --- On Thu, 7/7/11, Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> wrote: From: Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: What I have been up to lately To: vintageho@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, July 7, 2011, 8:15 PM   THANK YOU JOHN!  for making these wonderful decals available to us.  I plan on getting one of the decorated cars from Walthers and stripping it, then repaint in the usual manner.  I hope Walthers cars take to Brake Fluid ok?  Brake Fluid is my favorite paint stripper for styrene models.  I had a great time making this one. By the way, I did not realize the grab irons came in the old horn hook coupler packaging and thought they were missing so I used Tichy grabs.  When I looked closely at the horn hook package afterward, I saw the grabs in there. Thanks and regards Vic Bitleris Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: sprinthag@... Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2011 22:29:01 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Re: What I have been up to lately   Vic, Thanks for your endorsement of the OSTUCO decals. FYI, I will be happy to supply extra stripes to anyone who requests some. I'll print out some sheets of stripes when I get home (out of town this week) and mail a couple out via first class mail free of charge. Also, I will aways replace damaged decals for the cost of postage only. Yes, the undecorated cars disappeared from the Walthers Catalog, but they sill make the decorated ones, with or with out Grab irons installed (for additional cost of course). Seeing the photos of Vic's very neat model, their gondola looks perfect for this bashing project. Thanks Vic for posting the photos. John Hagen OBS-CALS the obscure deal people --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, bitlerisvj@... wrote: > > Hi Vintage HO folks, > I just uploaded some photos. > > I needed a break from building the layout so, spent a few weeks in a > frenzied building session. I ended up with 5 cars ready for the layout. > Only one of which was already built, but in dire need of refurbishing. > In addition I posted a couple of pictures of my Ostuco Gondola, courtesy > of a Walthers Undecorated USRA 46 foot Gondola. I should have purchased > 2, because now there aren't any more. [:((] I used the fantastic > decals provided to us by John Hagen, they were GREAT!. The only > suggestion I could make is that the red stripe could be a half inch or > so longer. I stretched them a bit too much, no matter how much I used > Decal Solvent, but I still had to touch up the stripe a bit. Badger > Modelflex Gloss Red did the job perfectly, in case anyone else has that > issue. The loading structure wasn't too bad to build. I had to make my > own square tubing out of two pieces of evergreen channel. The verticals > were standard evergreen I beams. The railings were a bit of a job, but > I am decent at soldering, so that didn't take too long. > The two 8 Hatch Reefers are Ambroid kits. The one on the left is a kit > I picked up at an NMRA National and was an old kit. The decals fell > apart on me when I tried using them. Basically, the lettering just came > off the film. I was fortunate that TMR distributing had Dry Transfers > that fit the job. You can see the difference in the lettering between > the 2 cars. I picked up the car on the right at a train show for $4, > but it was in rough shape. Several of the roof ribs were missing as > were some underfloor cross members. The doors were incorrectly painted > silver and lots of paint was chipped off all over the car. I was able > to create new roof ribs from styrene and of course the floor cross > members were just stripwood. I was lucky that the new Floquil Boxcar > Red was a dead on match to the paint, so I was able to touch up without > destroying the lettering. I did have to use Walthers Solvaset on the > old decals that were already applied to the car to get them to snuggle > in. Once the car was cleaned up and touched up, some Dullcoat made it > just about perfect. I STRONGLY DO NOT recommend the use of Ambroid glue > as this car was built using it and parts just kept falling off. I took > off ALL of the roof ribs to make sure I kept the losses to a minimum. I > then cleaned them up and reattached using CA. Basically I totally > rebuilt the roof and floor. The remainder of the car was in good shape. > I was able to remove the doors, due to the Ambroid cement used and clean > them up. With all of the great adhesives available today, I would > relegate Ambroid cement for balsa wood model airplanes. [:)] > I noticed that I need to work on the Ambroid Caboose a bit. I didn't > notice the loose facia and the funky hand grab on the cupola until I saw > the pictures. I will make sure that is fixed. Building this kit was a > big job. It was another old kit I picked up at an NMRA Convention and > the wood was pretty bad. It wasn't warped, but definitely had moisture > damage. I suspect it was in a damp basement. I was not able to using > any of the wire that came with the kit, since it was totally rusted. I > was very careful with the wood and put several coats of Behr Sanding > Sealer. I expect it should be fine. > While I was (AHEM) already working on stuff, I figured I may as well go > ahead and build one of my Resin kits that were on the shelf. The F&C > Gondola was pretty much a true pleasure to build. I needed something > easy by then. VBG! > Regards, Vic Bitleris >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16973	From: jake_iv@juno.com	Date: 7/10/2011
Subject: Re: New acquisition - Ghost?

Hi Sean, Tried your link but it looks like the seller has already pulled the photo.  Maybe you could take a photo and post it? Jake Bechtel Gadsden, AL

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16974	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 7/10/2011
Subject: Re: New acquisition - Ghost?

Attachments : lindsay ghost.PNG Hi Jake, Here is a copy of the listing photo. It has not come yet. I can not wait until it does.   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: "jake_iv@..." <jake_iv@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, July 10, 2011 5:42:14 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] New acquisition - Ghost?   Hi Sean, Tried your link but it looks like the seller has already pulled the photo.  Maybe you could take a photo and post it? Jake Bechtel Gadsden, AL

@@attachment@@

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16975	From: 23weldon	Date: 7/10/2011
Subject: Re: Lindsay HO Stubby

One of these bodies out of the 4 I've seen over the years was dying of zinc pest.  If any of you have one you haven't looked at in a while check it out while this source exists.  Also note that I've seen an example of the die cast end beams also with zinc pest.  If you don't know what zinc pest is check out the article on Wikipedia. Ed Weldon

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16976	From: jim heckard	Date: 7/10/2011
Subject: Mint Lionel engine

Well I got bored and won a small item and filled in a little niche missing from my collection. This was not one of the engines I am really looking for but still vintage.         I originally was following  the same type engine. # 0605 Loco Runs Super EX Condition  ( Lionel HO ) 250849732248   that so far had no bids at $24.00 and $5.15 Shipping.       Then the same engine came up in mint condition at the BUY IT NOW of $ 54.95 and $14.79 Shipping 260815406569  Lionel HO Docksider so I bought it. I probably could have waited to get the first one cheaper ( still in good condition ) but I decided to take the mint item. Sometimes Lionel motors that have been run didn't hold up and the mint one I'm getting will be test run only and put on the shelf. I also don't like the high $14.79 shipping charge from NJ        For those that might not know or remember this body was originally sold by HObbyline ( John English plastic ) and Lionel bought the design when JE / HObbyline went out of business. Lionel had to change the boiler design a little. They had to raise a section in front of the cab on top of the boiler to accept the Lionel motor.      Will still be watching for the items I really want.                                                        Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16977	From: jake_iv@juno.com	Date: 7/11/2011
Subject: Re: New acquisition - Ghost? [1 Attachment]

Hi Sean,   That sure looks like the Ghost.  I was always fascinated by the Ghost but Dad wouldn't't buy it and my teenage wages sure wouldn''t cover it.  I'm happy for you, Congratulations!! Jake Bechtel Gadsden, AL

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16978	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 7/11/2011
Subject: Re: New acquisition - Ghost?

Well thanks Jake! My question however. This thing pre-dates me by at least 10 to 20 years, does any one know what year(s) this car was offered? Also, I have one partially built, but it is missing the trucks, motor and the frame center beam. The thing is, it is a completely different style of boxcar. Was there more than one style?  If so, how many styles were available? Does anyone own a Lindsay catalog? Thanks in advance.  Sean Sent from my iPhone On Jul 11, 2011, at 1:13 PM, "jake_iv@..." <jake_iv@...> wrote:   Hi Sean,   That sure looks like the Ghost.  I was always fascinated by the Ghost but Dad wouldn't't buy it and my teenage wages sure wouldn''t cover it.  I'm happy for you, Congratulations!! Jake Bechtel Gadsden, AL

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16979	From: jim heckard	Date: 7/11/2011
Subject: Re: New acquisition - Ghost?

 Hey Uncle Sean,       Go to hoseeker, literature, Lindsay, diagram parts no, L 718 Lindsay Ghost Car , you will see the plans ( number actually is L-713 as plans show ) Have to contact Larry to change that L-718 number.       Also under Lindsay Information there is a Lindsay catalog. Not sure if it contains what you want.                                                    Jim H ----- Original Message ----- From: Sean Naylor To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, July 11, 2011 9:46 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] New acquisition - Ghost?   Well thanks Jake! My question however. This thing pre-dates me by at least 10 to 20 years, does any one know what year(s) this car was offered? Also, I have one partially built, but it is missing the trucks, motor and the frame center beam. The thing is, it is a completely different style of boxcar. Was there more than one style?  If so, how many styles were available? Does anyone own a Lindsay catalog? Thanks in advance.  Sean Sent from my iPhone On Jul 11, 2011, at 1:13 PM, "jake_iv@..." <jake_iv@...> wrote:   Hi Sean,   That sure looks like the Ghost.  I was always fascinated by the Ghost but Dad wouldn't't buy it and my teenage wages sure wouldn''t cover it.  I'm happy for you, Congratulations!! Jake Bechtel Gadsden, AL

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16980	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 7/11/2011
Subject: Re: New acquisition - Ghost?

Hi Jim, The only thing there was an instruction sheet which I already have. It does not have an actual photo of the car, rather than a drawing of the basic chassis and car without sides on yet. Thanks though.   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: jim heckard <jimheck@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, July 11, 2011 10:25:56 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] New acquisition - Ghost?    Hey Uncle Sean,       Go to hoseeker, literature, Lindsay, diagram parts no, L 718 Lindsay Ghost Car , you will see the plans ( number actually is L-713 as plans show ) Have to contact Larry to change that L-718 number.       Also under Lindsay Information there is a Lindsay catalog. Not sure if it contains what you want.                                                    Jim H ----- Original Message ----- From: Sean Naylor To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, July 11, 2011 9:46 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] New acquisition - Ghost?   Well thanks Jake! My question however. This thing pre-dates me by at least 10 to 20 years, does any one know what year(s) this car was offered? Also, I have one partially built, but it is missing the trucks, motor and the frame center beam. The thing is, it is a completely different style of boxcar. Was there more than one style?  If so, how many styles were available? Does anyone own a Lindsay catalog? Thanks in advance.  Sean Sent from my iPhone On Jul 11, 2011, at 1:13 PM, "jake_iv@..." <jake_iv@...> wrote:   Hi Sean,   That sure looks like the Ghost.  I was always fascinated by the Ghost but Dad wouldn't't buy it and my teenage wages sure wouldn''t cover it.  I'm happy for you, Congratulations!! Jake Bechtel Gadsden, AL

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16981	From: John H	Date: 7/11/2011
Subject: Re: New acquisition - Ghost?

AFAIK the Ghost consisted of a wood floor modifiied for the power truck, the power truck and the idler truck. I don't think there was a car body....you just put on whatever forty-foot body you wanted. Sure made things easier to stock if there was one kit that fit all. I have never seen one with the car body like the one Sean purchased. When these things first came out (1948 - 49?) a hobby shop located on E. Wisconsin Avenue in Appleton, WI., had one pulling three or four cars and a caboose around a circular display track in the store window. Looked kinda wierd running around and around with no apparent means of locomotion. I do recall that the car body was standard forty-foot boxcar red box car. Carn't recall what it was lettered for, or if it was lettered. John Hagen --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > Hi Jim, > > The only thing there was an instruction sheet which I already have. It does not > have an actual photo of the car, rather than a drawing of the basic chassis and > car without sides on yet. > > Thanks though. > > Sean

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16982	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 7/11/2011
Subject: Re: New acquisition - Ghost?

Well, thanks. That standard boxcar red 40' is just like the one I have in the partially built kit. This one with the platform thds and passenger car roof seems quite different for sure. I thought about swapping the trucks to complete the kit, but I think I will leave it just as it is.  Thanks! Sean Sent from my iPhone On Jul 11, 2011, at 11:49 AM, "John H" <sprinthag@...> wrote:   AFAIK the Ghost consisted of a wood floor modifiied for the power truck, the power truck and the idler truck. I don't think there was a car body....you just put on whatever forty-foot body you wanted. Sure made things easier to stock if there was one kit that fit all. I have never seen one with the car body like the one Sean purchased. When these things first came out (1948 - 49?) a hobby shop located on E. Wisconsin Avenue in Appleton, WI., had one pulling three or four cars and a caboose around a circular display track in the store window. Looked kinda wierd running around and around with no apparent means of locomotion. I do recall that the car body was standard forty-foot boxcar red box car. Carn't recall what it was lettered for, or if it was lettered. John Hagen --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > Hi Jim, > > The only thing there was an instruction sheet which I already have. It does not > have an actual photo of the car, rather than a drawing of the basic chassis and > car without sides on yet. > > Thanks though. > > Sean

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16983	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 7/11/2011
Subject: Re: New acquisition - Ghost?

Ps. What is FA Sent from my iPhone On Jul 11, 2011, at 11:49 AM, "John H" <sprinthag@...> wrote:   AFAIK the Ghost consisted of a wood floor modifiied for the power truck, the power truck and the idler truck. I don't think there was a car body....you just put on whatever forty-foot body you wanted. Sure made things easier to stock if there was one kit that fit all. I have never seen one with the car body like the one Sean purchased. When these things first came out (1948 - 49?) a hobby shop located on E. Wisconsin Avenue in Appleton, WI., had one pulling three or four cars and a caboose around a circular display track in the store window. Looked kinda wierd running around and around with no apparent means of locomotion. I do recall that the car body was standard forty-foot boxcar red box car. Carn't recall what it was lettered for, or if it was lettered. John Hagen --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > Hi Jim, > > The only thing there was an instruction sheet which I already have. It does not > have an actual photo of the car, rather than a drawing of the basic chassis and > car without sides on yet. > > Thanks though. > > Sean

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16984	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 7/11/2011
Subject: Re: New acquisition - Ghost?

Sorry. What is AFAIK? Sean Sent from my iPhone On Jul 11, 2011, at 11:49 AM, "John H" <sprinthag@...> wrote:   AFAIK the Ghost consisted of a wood floor modifiied for the power truck, the power truck and the idler truck. I don't think there was a car body....you just put on whatever forty-foot body you wanted. Sure made things easier to stock if there was one kit that fit all. I have never seen one with the car body like the one Sean purchased. When these things first came out (1948 - 49?) a hobby shop located on E. Wisconsin Avenue in Appleton, WI., had one pulling three or four cars and a caboose around a circular display track in the store window. Looked kinda wierd running around and around with no apparent means of locomotion. I do recall that the car body was standard forty-foot boxcar red box car. Carn't recall what it was lettered for, or if it was lettered. John Hagen --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > Hi Jim, > > The only thing there was an instruction sheet which I already have. It does not > have an actual photo of the car, rather than a drawing of the basic chassis and > car without sides on yet. > > Thanks though. > > Sean

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16985	From: John H	Date: 7/11/2011
Subject: Re: New acquisition - Ghost?

As Far As I Know John Hagen --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > Ps. What is FA > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jul 11, 2011, at 11:49 AM, "John H" <sprinthag@...> wrote: > > > AFAIK the Ghost consisted of a wood floor modifiied for the power truck, the power truck and the idler truck. I don't think there was a car body....you just put on whatever forty-foot body you wanted. Sure made things easier to stock if there was one kit that fit all. I have never seen one with the car body like the one Sean purchased. > > > > When these things first came out (1948 - 49?) a hobby shop located on E. Wisconsin Avenue in Appleton, WI., had one pulling three or four cars and a caboose around a circular display track in the store window. Looked kinda wierd running around and around with no apparent means of locomotion. I do recall that the car body was standard forty-foot boxcar red box car. Carn't recall what it was lettered for, or if it was lettered. > > > > John Hagen > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@> wrote: > > > > > > Hi Jim, > > > > > > The only thing there was an instruction sheet which I already have. It does not > > > have an actual photo of the car, rather than a drawing of the basic chassis and > > > car without sides on yet. > > > > > > Thanks though. > > > > > > Sean > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16986	From: ragc4x5x7	Date: 7/11/2011
Subject: Re: New Member

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Fred Hultberg <fhultberg@...> wrote: > >   > Nice pic, Raphael!  Looks a great vintage model. >   > Welcome to the seven-sided puzzle factory(At least, my collection of loose vintage parts looks that way!). >   > Fred Hultberg(resident etching wizard, Fotocut®) > Thanks! Most of my stuff is vintage, including myself! LOL!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16987	From: Donald R. Staton	Date: 7/11/2011
Subject: Re: New Member

Most of us are "vintage"...  Welcome to the group. Don Staton in VA. -------------------------------------------------------- On 7/11/2011 6:39 PM, ragc4x5x7 wrote:   --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Fred Hultberg <fhultberg@...> wrote: > >   > Nice pic, Raphael!  Looks a great vintage model. >   > Welcome to the seven-sided puzzle factory(At least, my collection of loose vintage parts looks that way!). >   > Fred Hultberg(resident etching wizard, Fotocut®) > Thanks! Most of my stuff is vintage, including myself! LOL!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16988	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 7/12/2011
Subject: Re: New Member

and.... Some of us aren't nearly as vintage as the trains in our collections.  Sean Sent from my iPhone On Jul 11, 2011, at 7:59 PM, "Donald R. Staton" <chpln1@...> wrote:   Most of us are "vintage"...  Welcome to the group. Don Staton in VA. -------------------------------------------------------- On 7/11/2011 6:39 PM, ragc4x5x7 wrote:   --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Fred Hultberg <fhultberg@...> wrote: > >   > Nice pic, Raphael!  Looks a great vintage model. >   > Welcome to the seven-sided puzzle factory(At least, my collection of loose vintage parts looks that way!). >   > Fred Hultberg(resident etching wizard, Fotocut®) > Thanks! Most of my stuff is vintage, including myself! LOL!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16989	From: Donald R. Staton	Date: 7/12/2011
Subject: Re: New Member

Please forgive me for forgetting you are a young man... I was once there also among many elder friends and modelers, but today I am among the elders. Happy Railroading... Don Staton in VA. --------------------------------------------------------------------- On 7/12/2011 5:53 AM, Sean Naylor wrote:   and.... Some of us aren't nearly as vintage as the trains in our collections.  Sean Sent from my iPhone On Jul 11, 2011, at 7:59 PM, "Donald R. Staton" <chpln1@...> wrote:   Most of us are "vintage"...  Welcome to the group. Don Staton in VA. -------------------------------------------------------- On 7/11/2011 6:39 PM, ragc4x5x7 wrote:   --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Fred Hultberg <fhultberg@...> wrote: > >   > Nice pic, Raphael!  Looks a great vintage model. >   > Welcome to the seven-sided puzzle factory(At least, my collection of loose vintage parts looks that way!). >   > Fred Hultberg(resident etching wizard, Fotocut®) > Thanks! Most of my stuff is vintage, including myself! LOL!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16990	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 7/15/2011
Subject: Lindsay Ghost boxcar.

Hi All, If anyone is interested in seeing a very rare neat and vintage Lindsay self propelled boxcar. I took some pictures and posted them here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/sets/72157627077455835/with/5939152544/   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16991	From: Glenn	Date: 7/15/2011
Subject: Re: Lindsay Ghost boxcar.

I recall back in the sixties at the West Bay Club in Menlo Park, CA  one of the members had one of these—one open night he had a long freight train running  (this guy did the weathering  of locos in the PFM ads)   with a boxcar and caboose at the end—after a while, he uncoupled the two and let them drop back a ways--  “Hey—Wait for me!!” gj   From: Sean Naylor Sent: Friday, July 15, 2011 11:21 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ; yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Lindsay Ghost boxcar.   Hi All, If anyone is interested in seeing a very rare neat and vintage Lindsay self propelled boxcar. I took some pictures and posted them here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/sets/72157627077455835/with/5939152544/   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16992	From: ablecynic	Date: 7/16/2011
Subject: Re: Lindsay Ghost boxcar.

Sean, Great photos and this is the first time I have seen a Ghost applied to a passenger car. Glad you got it and rescued it from oblivion. Matt --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > Hi All, > > If anyone is interested in seeing a very rare neat and vintage Lindsay self > propelled boxcar. I took some pictures and posted them here: > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/sets/72157627077455835/with/5939152544/ > > Sean > > > "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario > Andretti! >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16993	From: Gerold Eckl	Date: 7/16/2011
Subject: Re: Lindsay Ghost boxcar.

Attachments : NP Fruit car.2.jpg On 7/16/2011 12:54 PM, ablecynic wrote:   Sean, Great photos and this is the first time I have seen a Ghost applied to a passenger car. Glad you got it and rescued it from oblivion. Matt The basic car is an Red Ball Ventilated Express Fruit Car. I have purchesed one of them some months ago, pic attached.  here is the link to the respective Red Ball cat page: http://www.hoseeker.net/redball/redballcatalog09pg07.jpg Gerold

@@attachment@@

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16994	From: hspanier@aol.com	Date: 7/16/2011
Subject: Re: Lindsay Ghost boxcar.

Great piece. Thanks for posting. Never heard nor ever knew this existed. Very best, Mike Spanier

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16995	From: Riverboy	Date: 7/17/2011
Subject: Re: Lindsay Ghost boxcar.

I acquired one of these ( built up ) in a "junk" collection I bought a couple years back and could never figure out what it was or who made it. I'm glad the thread was posted as it answered a question I had.   Thanks guys.   Tod ( Ohio )                  .

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16996	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 7/17/2011
Subject: Re: Lindsay Ghost boxcar.

Sure thing Todd, Remember, if there ever is an item you are not sure about...post pictures and the question. Chances are, someone here has one or has seen one in the past.   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: Riverboy <river_dweller_ohio@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, July 17, 2011 1:13:49 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Lindsay Ghost boxcar.   I acquired one of these ( built up ) in a "junk" collection I bought a couple years back and could never figure out what it was or who made it. I'm glad the thread was posted as it answered a question I had.   Thanks guys.   Tod ( Ohio )                  .

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16997	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 7/17/2011
Subject: Re: Lindsay Ghost boxcar.

Sean, Why is this model motorized? Is it a far-fetched fantasy model, or is there a prototype? Did Red Ball suggest it be motorized? There is no cab, is there? Shouldn't those vents be on the roof? On Sun, Jul 17, 2011 at 4:05 PM, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote:   Sure thing Todd, Remember, if there ever is an item you are not sure about...post pictures and the question. Chances are, someone here has one or has seen one in the past.   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: Riverboy <river_dweller_ohio@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, July 17, 2011 1:13:49 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Lindsay Ghost boxcar.   I acquired one of these ( built up ) in a "junk" collection I bought a couple years back and could never figure out what it was or who made it. I'm glad the thread was posted as it answered a question I had.   Thanks guys.   Tod ( Ohio )                  . -- Regards, Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16998	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 7/17/2011
Subject: Re: Lindsay Ghost boxcar.

Being that the model is 20-30 years older than me, I can in no way speak of the manufacturer's intentions. Since posting this, I have been made aware that the basic kit was just a chassis and mechanism and the builder chose the skin so to speak. I believe, in this case, the builder chose the red ball car. He definitely changed up the roof, which makes it quite unique. My understanding, from what I have been told, is that it could be made to represent the "runaway car". I am sure it has happened from time to time in the past, especially in the old days on the old mountain lines.  Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: Walter Bayer II <bayerw2@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, July 17, 2011 4:43:31 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Lindsay Ghost boxcar.   Sean, Why is this model motorized? Is it a far-fetched fantasy model, or is there a prototype? Did Red Ball suggest it be motorized? There is no cab, is there? Shouldn't those vents be on the roof? On Sun, Jul 17, 2011 at 4:05 PM, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote:   Sure thing Todd, Remember, if there ever is an item you are not sure about...post pictures and the question. Chances are, someone here has one or has seen one in the past.   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: Riverboy <river_dweller_ohio@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, July 17, 2011 1:13:49 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Lindsay Ghost boxcar.   I acquired one of these ( built up ) in a "junk" collection I bought a couple years back and could never figure out what it was or who made it. I'm glad the thread was posted as it answered a question I had.   Thanks guys.   Tod ( Ohio )                  . -- Regards, Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 16999	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 7/17/2011
Subject: Re: Lindsay Ghost boxcar. [1 Attachment]

Thanks Gerold! The roof is notably different though. Sean   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: Gerold Eckl <corv8@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, July 16, 2011 7:50:46 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Lindsay Ghost boxcar. [1 Attachment]   On 7/16/2011 12:54 PM, ablecynic wrote:   Sean, Great photos and this is the first time I have seen a Ghost applied to a passenger car. Glad you got it and rescued it from oblivion. Matt The basic car is an Red Ball Ventilated Express Fruit Car. I have purchesed one of them some months ago, pic attached.  here is the link to the respective Red Ball cat page: http://www.hoseeker.net/redball/redballcatalog09pg07.jpg Gerold

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17000	From: John H	Date: 7/17/2011
Subject: Re: Lindsay Ghost boxcar.

The idea was to have a booster for slippery motive power. The state of the hobby in the late 40's was much different than today. The average car weighted more and the trucks were not nearly as free rolling. Layouts featured sharper curves and steeper grades. 4% grades and sharp curves were not unusual as modelers of the time often crammed as much trackage as possible in a given area. Most diesels came with but one truck powered and, while some steam had decent weight and sufficiently powerful motors, others did not. So having a "stealth" helper could be helpful, although I think it became more of a novelty and never racked up big sales. Yes, I was there and old enough to remember the days of brass track with fiber ties and cars made of wood or metal. I recall the layouts featured in MR with track everywhere and grades sometimes so steep they were one way only, you guess which way. John Hagen --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Walter Bayer II <bayerw2@...> wrote: > > Sean, > > Why is this model motorized? Is it a far-fetched fantasy model, or is there > a prototype? Did Red Ball suggest it be motorized? There is no cab, is > there? > > Shouldn't those vents be on the roof? > > -- > Regards, > Walter >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17001	From: Glenn	Date: 7/17/2011
Subject: Re: Lindsay Ghost boxcar.

It supported the old slogan—“Model Railroading is Fun!”  --A friend of mine used to “chase” a freight train with this car and a caboose==running about a foot behind—on public show nights.  gj   From: Sean Naylor Sent: Sunday, July 17, 2011 2:02 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Lindsay Ghost boxcar.   Being that the model is 20-30 years older than me, I can in no way speak of the manufacturer's intentions. Since posting this, I have been made aware that the basic kit was just a chassis and mechanism and the builder chose the skin so to speak. I believe, in this case, the builder chose the red ball car. He definitely changed up the roof, which makes it quite unique. My understanding, from what I have been told, is that it could be made to represent the "runaway car". I am sure it has happened from time to time in the past, especially in the old days on the old mountain lines. Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!     From: Walter Bayer II <bayerw2@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, July 17, 2011 4:43:31 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Lindsay Ghost boxcar.   Sean, Why is this model motorized? Is it a far-fetched fantasy model, or is there a prototype? Did Red Ball suggest it be motorized? There is no cab, is there? Shouldn't those vents be on the roof? On Sun, Jul 17, 2011 at 4:05 PM, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote:   Sure thing Todd, Remember, if there ever is an item you are not sure about...post pictures and the question. Chances are, someone here has one or has seen one in the past.   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!     From: Riverboy <river_dweller_ohio@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, July 17, 2011 1:13:49 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Lindsay Ghost boxcar.   I acquired one of these ( built up ) in a "junk" collection I bought a couple years back and could never figure out what it was or who made it. I'm glad the thread was posted as it answered a question I had.   Thanks guys.   Tod ( Ohio )                 . -- Regards, Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17002	From: raul@wi.rr.com	Date: 7/17/2011
Subject: Re: Lindsay Ghost boxcar.

---- Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: = I believe one of the reviewers thought it might be usefull to perform a flying switch. Roger Aultman ========== Being that the model is 20-30 years older than me, I can in no way speak of the manufacturer's intentions. Since posting this, I have been made aware that the basic kit was just a chassis and mechanism and the builder chose the skin so to speak. I believe, in this case, the builder chose the red ball car. He definitely changed up the roof, which makes it quite unique. My understanding, from what I have been told, is that it could be made to represent the "runaway car". I am sure it has happened from time to time in the past, especially in the old days on the old mountain lines. Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! ________________________________ From: Walter Bayer II <bayerw2@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, July 17, 2011 4:43:31 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Lindsay Ghost boxcar. Sean, Why is this model motorized? Is it a far-fetched fantasy model, or is there a prototype? Did Red Ball suggest it be motorized? There is no cab, is there? Shouldn't those vents be on the roof? On Sun, Jul 17, 2011 at 4:05 PM, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > >Sure thing Todd, > >Remember, if there ever is an item you are not sure about...post pictures and >the question. Chances are, someone here has one or has seen one in the past. > > Sean > > >"If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario >Andretti! > > > > > ________________________________ From: Riverboy <river_dweller_ohio@...> >To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com >Sent: Sun, July 17, 2011 1:13:49 PM >Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Lindsay Ghost boxcar. > > >I acquired one of these ( built up ) in a "junk" collection I bought a couple >years back and could never figure out what it was or who made it. I'm glad the >thread was posted as it answered a question I had. > >Thanks guys. > >Tod ( Ohio ) > > > > > > >> >> >> >> >> >> * >>. >> -- Regards, Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17003	From: cwrailman	Date: 7/18/2011
Subject: Re: Lindsay Ghost boxcar.

When I was a member of the Lake Shore Model RR club in Chicago in the 70-80's we had a member who had a similar device in a 80ft high cube which he would use for switching in one of the major yards during our Christmas open houses. When people would ask what was moving the train he told them the car had a big spring which would wind up when the train was on the main line and that would allow him to use it for switching when it got to the yard. I often wondered how many people bought into that story. Bill was a character all right but then we all are to some degree RIGHT! On to the shops, Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17004	From: Brock Lacy	Date: 7/19/2011
Subject: Need help?

Hello folks, I have over thirty Varney locs,some tenders,motors and misc. items that were my grandfathers collection from around the 50's...I think?. I remember him having a huge layout when I was a young fella. What little I do know.. some are brass...some my be cast?... A friend/collector of the family years ago tagged them ...brass 2-8-0,4-6-2,Mikado 2-8-4,etc...I unfortunatley am not a train collector so I am trying to find some hands to put these trains in that would appreciate them more than I would. I've had little luck in locating info on pricing/values.I have a Greenberg's guides that my father bought years ago and some older train books that my granfather had but they lose me so to say? I just want to price them fair and not over price nor give them away....Don't see much on ebay,etc...to compare to??? I am in Montgomery,Al and there are no meets etc. around here that I know of. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17005	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 7/19/2011
Subject: picture attachment

Attachments : IMG_7218_21.JPG Hi, I'm sending a picture of the item I just won on eBay as I try to navigate this new computer and how to do things. Let me know if it got through and is it the right size. I can't use my digital camera program for adding attachments as I normally did and have to learn a new way to send attachments. Jim

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 17006	From: Mike Sloane	Date: 7/19/2011
Subject: Re: picture attachment [1 Attachment]

It came through fine and re-directed me to the "photos" section of the group site. I have a couple of those engines on my layout: <http://public.fotki.com/mikesloane/vintage-model-rr/hobbytown040.html> There was no power for the ones I have, so they are just for "static display" on the "dead line". Mike On 7/19/2011 11:32 AM, Jim Heckard wrote: > [Attachment(s) <#TopText> from Jim Heckard included below] > > > > Hi, > > I'm sending a picture of the item I just won on eBay as I try > to navigate this new computer and how to do things. Let me know if it > got through and is it the right size. I can't use my digital camera > program for adding attachments as I normally did and have to learn a new > way to send attachments. > > Jim > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17007	From: Jay	Date: 7/19/2011
Subject: Re: picture attachment

Hi Jim H., The attachment and photo of the new Lionel 0605 0-4-0 based on the Hobbyline dies worked and came out well. I found mine in a group of "old HO" my late uncle picked up somewhere years before I became an active vintage HO guy and I remember being a bit surprised that Lionel had done a good job with the diework, not knowing at the time that John English's Hobbyline deserved the credit. Nice that you now have one in the collection to show the history of that model. Yes, I am back active here after a late winter of almost insurmountabel software problems, local activities with our RR station/town museum and Rotary fund rasiing and aid to local flood victi8ns. Trying to follow the group while stopping by the local library was no fun when my information and models were back home. Once the sofware problems were fixed, then had problems getting into my Yahoo account, finally getting back in a couple weeks ago and seeing over 4,000 messages piled up in my mailbox from the three groups I follow Vintage HO, NYC Transit Modelers and Erie Lackawanna List, plus individual messages burried within...If that were not enough, just when everything was working again to my satisfaction, by land and dataline was wiped out by a recent storm and that was finally repaired a few days ago. Im slowly going back over all of the messsages, but it will take a while and apologize if anyone sent me an off list email and had not received a response. I will get to them all: I have missed some valuable and interesting information during the last 4 or 5 months and need to catch up. Glad to be back. W Jay W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > > Hi, > > I'm sending a picture of the item I just won on eBay as I try > to navigate this new computer and how to do things. Let me know if it > got through and is it the right size. I can't use my digital camera > program for adding attachments as I normally did and have to learn a new > way to send attachments. > > > Jim >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17008	From: Richard	Date: 7/19/2011
Subject: Mantua Worm Gear Cover Needed

I've got a very old Mantua 4-6-2 (brass drivers) with Zemac rot on the worm gear cover. Is there anyone on this list that might have a good one they could sell to me? This one has three screws. I don't think I can get one from Yardbird Dan as he doesn't answer his emails anymore plus his web site shows out of stock. Thanks. Richard Hamann in Vermont

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17009	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 7/19/2011
Subject: Re: picture attachment

Hi W Jay W,        Glad your back. I'm going through those growing pains with this new computer system. Nothing is the same or works the way it use to. It will take a while to learn everything. Have to crawl before you walk.                                                                                                                                                   Jim H On 7/19/2011 12:03 PM, Jay wrote:   Hi Jim H., The attachment and photo of the new Lionel 0605 0-4-0 based on the Hobbyline dies worked and came out well. I found mine in a group of "old HO" my late uncle picked up somewhere years before I became an active vintage HO guy and I remember being a bit surprised that Lionel had done a good job with the diework, not knowing at the time that John English's Hobbyline deserved the credit. Nice that you now have one in the collection to show the history of that model. Yes, I am back active here after a late winter of almost insurmountabel software problems, local activities with our RR station/town museum and Rotary fund rasiing and aid to local flood victi8ns. Trying to follow the group while stopping by the local library was no fun when my information and models were back home. Once the sofware problems were fixed, then had problems getting into my Yahoo account, finally getting back in a couple weeks ago and seeing over 4,000 messages piled up in my mailbox from the three groups I follow Vintage HO, NYC Transit Modelers and Erie Lackawanna List, plus individual messages burried within...If that were not enough, just when everything was working again to my satisfaction, by land and dataline was wiped out by a recent storm and that was finally repaired a few days ago. Im slowly going back over all of the messsages, but it will take a while and apologize if anyone sent me an off list email and had not received a response. I will get to them all: I have missed some valuable and interesting information during the last 4 or 5 months and need to catch up. Glad to be back. W Jay W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > > Hi, > > I'm sending a picture of the item I just won on eBay as I try > to navigate this new computer and how to do things. Let me know if it > got through and is it the right size. I can't use my digital camera > program for adding attachments as I normally did and have to learn a new > way to send attachments. > > > Jim >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17010	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 7/19/2011
Subject: Re: Mantua Worm Gear Cover Needed

Richard, Is yours with or with-out the tabs for the brass valve gear hangers? The first generation had the tabs. The second did not. I assume yours does not since it is on a pacific. I may or may not. I am not sure. I know I have first generation type, but they are on Mikados. I am not sure if the pacific's had any is all.  I'll have to check later when I get home.   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: Richard <rh@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, July 19, 2011 12:09:02 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Mantua Worm Gear Cover Needed   I've got a very old Mantua 4-6-2 (brass drivers) with Zemac rot on the worm gear cover. Is there anyone on this list that might have a good one they could sell to me? This one has three screws. I don't think I can get one from Yardbird Dan as he doesn't answer his emails anymore plus his web site shows out of stock. Thanks. Richard Hamann in Vermont

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17011	From: Jay	Date: 7/19/2011
Subject: Re: Lindsay Ghost boxcar.

Sean and All, I believe the stated main use of the Ghost was to boost the tractive effort of some of the smaller locomotives of the day, as some were pretty anemic; (Anyone have an original Brass Betsy?) I also believe Roger A. is correct that one of the reviewers at the time (MR?) thought it would be useful for the flying switch maneuver. As far as I know, the Lindsay Ghost factory boxed kits all included a modified Silver Streak boxcar kit - in fact that infomation is printed right on the end of box label you showed: "S.S." boxcar. The cool custom mounting of the Ghost power unit in a highly modified Red Ball N.P. Fruit Car I believe is the work of a talented modeler. By comparing the modified Silver Streak car floor with the Red Ball floor, one can see that the latter opening was hand cut as opposed to the machine cut opening in the furnished SS car. In addition, the modeler went on to create a clerestory type roof on his fruit car, modernizing it a bit - the Red Ball kit and catalog photos all show an earlier era's slightly arched roof. I have a virtaully complete Red Ball catalog and literature collection and nothing there mentions the Ghost. Good you received the original box as well, I have always liked that illustration and the bit of humor it shows Lindsay had. I bought an empty box for a couple of dollars a few years back, just liked it, and still don't have one of the models! W. Jay W. Ps, If you get a chance and you have a scanner, it would be helpful to scan the instructions and send to HOSEEKER as they do not have it there yet! --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, <raul@...> wrote: > > > ---- Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > = > > I believe one of the reviewers thought it might be usefull to perform a flying switch. > Roger Aultman > > > > > ========== > Being that the model is 20-30 years older than me, I can in no way speak of the > manufacturer's intentions. Since posting this, I have been made aware that the > basic kit was just a chassis and mechanism and the builder chose the skin so to > speak. I believe, in this case, the builder chose the red ball car. He > definitely changed up the roof, which makes it quite unique. > > > My understanding, from what I have been told, is that it could be made to > represent the "runaway car". I am sure it has happened from time to time in the > past, especially in the old days on the old mountain lines. > > Sean > > > "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario > Andretti! > > > > > ________________________________ > From: Walter Bayer II <bayerw2@...> > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sun, July 17, 2011 4:43:31 PM > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Lindsay Ghost boxcar. > > > Sean, > > Why is this model motorized? Is it a far-fetched fantasy model, or is there a > prototype? Did Red Ball suggest it be motorized? There is no cab, is there? > > Shouldn't those vents be on the roof? > > > On Sun, Jul 17, 2011 at 4:05 PM, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > > > > >Sure thing Todd, > > > >Remember, if there ever is an item you are not sure about...post pictures and > >the question. Chances are, someone here has one or has seen one in the past. > > > > Sean > > > > > >"If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario > >Andretti! > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > From: Riverboy <river_dweller_ohio@...> > >To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > >Sent: Sun, July 17, 2011 1:13:49 PM > >Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Lindsay Ghost boxcar. > > > > > >I acquired one of these ( built up ) in a "junk" collection I bought a couple > >years back and could never figure out what it was or who made it. I'm glad the > >thread was posted as it answered a question I had. > > > >Thanks guys. > > > >Tod ( Ohio ) > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> * > >>. > >> > > > -- > Regards, > Walter >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17012	From: Glenn	Date: 7/19/2011
Subject: Re: picture attachment

not "Hobbytown" but "HObbyline" gj -----Original Message----- From: Mike Sloane Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2011 8:43 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] picture attachment It came through fine and re-directed me to the "photos" section of the group site. I have a couple of those engines on my layout: <http://public.fotki.com/mikesloane/vintage-model-rr/hobbytown040.html> There was no power for the ones I have, so they are just for "static display" on the "dead line". Mike On 7/19/2011 11:32 AM, Jim Heckard wrote: > [Attachment(s) <#TopText> from Jim Heckard included below] > > > > Hi, > > I'm sending a picture of the item I just won on eBay as I try > to navigate this new computer and how to do things. Let me know if it > got through and is it the right size. I can't use my digital camera > program for adding attachments as I normally did and have to learn a new > way to send attachments. > > Jim > > ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17013	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 7/19/2011
Subject: Re: Lindsay Ghost boxcar.

Hi W. Jay! Yes, I was almost certain the unfinished (& incomplete) standard red boxcar I have pictured (came with the box) was the original and the fruit car had to be something custom. It was however, news to be about this car having originated from a Redball kit. I feel quit lucky to have it honestly.   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: Jay <the_plainsman@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, July 19, 2011 12:30:46 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Lindsay Ghost boxcar.   Sean and All, I believe the stated main use of the Ghost was to boost the tractive effort of some of the smaller locomotives of the day, as some were pretty anemic; (Anyone have an original Brass Betsy?) I also believe Roger A. is correct that one of the reviewers at the time (MR?) thought it would be useful for the flying switch maneuver. As far as I know, the Lindsay Ghost factory boxed kits all included a modified Silver Streak boxcar kit - in fact that infomation is printed right on the end of box label you showed: "S.S." boxcar. The cool custom mounting of the Ghost power unit in a highly modified Red Ball N.P. Fruit Car I believe is the work of a talented modeler. By comparing the modified Silver Streak car floor with the Red Ball floor, one can see that the latter opening was hand cut as opposed to the machine cut opening in the furnished SS car. In addition, the modeler went on to create a clerestory type roof on his fruit car, modernizing it a bit - the Red Ball kit and catalog photos all show an earlier era's slightly arched roof. I have a virtaully complete Red Ball catalog and literature collection and nothing there mentions the Ghost. Good you received the original box as well, I have always liked that illustration and the bit of humor it shows Lindsay had. I bought an empty box for a couple of dollars a few years back, just liked it, and still don't have one of the models! W. Jay W. Ps, If you get a chance and you have a scanner, it would be helpful to scan the instructions and send to HOSEEKER as they do not have it there yet! --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, <raul@...> wrote: > > > ---- Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > = > > I believe one of the reviewers thought it might be usefull to perform a flying switch. > Roger Aultman > > > > > ========== > Being that the model is 20-30 years older than me, I can in no way speak of the > manufacturer's intentions. Since posting this, I have been made aware that the > basic kit was just a chassis and mechanism and the builder chose the skin so to > speak. I believe, in this case, the builder chose the red ball car. He > definitely changed up the roof, which makes it quite unique. > > > My understanding, from what I have been told, is that it could be made to > represent the "runaway car". I am sure it has happened from time to time in the > past, especially in the old days on the old mountain lines. > > Sean > > > "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario > Andretti! > > > > > ________________________________ > From: Walter Bayer II <bayerw2@...> > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sun, July 17, 2011 4:43:31 PM > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Lindsay Ghost boxcar. > > > Sean, > > Why is this model motorized? Is it a far-fetched fantasy model, or is there a > prototype? Did Red Ball suggest it be motorized? There is no cab, is there? > > Shouldn't those vents be on the roof? > > > On Sun, Jul 17, 2011 at 4:05 PM, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > > > > >Sure thing Todd, > > > >Remember, if there ever is an item you are not sure about...post pictures and > >the question. Chances are, someone here has one or has seen one in the past. > > > > Sean > > > > > >"If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario > >Andretti! > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > From: Riverboy <river_dweller_ohio@...> > >To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > >Sent: Sun, July 17, 2011 1:13:49 PM > >Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Lindsay Ghost boxcar. > > > > > >I acquired one of these ( built up ) in a "junk" collection I bought a couple > >years back and could never figure out what it was or who made it. I'm glad the > >thread was posted as it answered a question I had. > > > >Thanks guys. > > > >Tod ( Ohio ) > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> * > >>. > >> > > > -- > Regards, > Walter >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17014	From: Mike Sloane	Date: 7/19/2011
Subject: Re: picture attachment

Yeah - I know, but I can't change the image name in Fotki. But the caption and description is correct. Mike On 7/19/2011 12:55 PM, Glenn wrote: > not "Hobbytown" but "HObbyline" > > > gj > > -----Original Message----- > From: Mike Sloane > Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2011 8:43 AM > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] picture attachment > > It came through fine and re-directed me to the "photos" section of the > group site. > > I have a couple of those engines on my layout: > <http://public.fotki.com/mikesloane/vintage-model-rr/hobbytown040.html> > There was no power for the ones I have, so they are just for "static > display" on the "dead line". > > Mike

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17015	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 7/19/2011
Subject: Hobbytown Static & Powered 0-4-0t

Attachments : IMG_7221_1.JPG IMG_7220_1.JPG IMG_7219_1.JPG Hi Mike, I 've sent pictures of 1 HObbyline Static Plastic 0-4-0t Kit 2 HObbyline Powered 0-4-0t 3 Lionel powered 0-4-0t for reference. Notice the Lionel has the raised portion in front of cab and top of boiler to accept the Lionel motor. Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 17016	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 7/19/2011
Subject: Re: hoBBYLINE Static & Powered 0-4-0t

See I made the mistake of writing Hobbytown in the subject instead of HObbyline. Me bad. Jim H On 7/19/2011 1:52 PM, Jim Heckard wrote: > Hi Mike, > > I 've sent pictures of > > 1 HObbyline Static Plastic 0-4-0t Kit > 2 HObbyline Powered 0-4-0t > 3 Lionel powered 0-4-0t > > > for reference. Notice the Lionel has the raised portion in > front of cab and top of boiler to accept the Lionel motor. > > > Jim H > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17017	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 7/19/2011
Subject: I apologize

As you can see I wrote Hobbytown in the subject heading of an email with attachments instead of HObbyline. Getting use to the new computer is no excuse for not checking better before it was sent. Small mistakes like that can cause big confusion. Again I meant HObbyline . Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17018	From: Jay	Date: 7/19/2011
Subject: Re: HObbyline Static & Powered; Lionel Powered 0-4-0T's

Hi Jim H. Nice to see the 3 exhibit locomotives all in order for comparison. No sweating the unintentional misnomer, we can blame it on the excess heat most of us are experiencing today! W. Jay W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > Hi Mike, > > I 've sent pictures of > > 1 HObbyline Static Plastic 0-4-0t Kit > 2 HObbyline Powered 0-4-0t > 3 Lionel powered 0-4-0t > > > for reference. Notice the Lionel has the raised portion in > front of cab and top of boiler to accept the Lionel motor. > > > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17019	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 7/20/2011
Subject: Welcome back

W Jay W,     As I said before its good to have you back. Your knowledge and additions to threads were always useful.  I've made a number of additions to my vintage collection but still looking for others. I ran into some of the same troubles as you. After a TIA ( minor stroke ) around Thanksgiving I've had a few medical problems that are starting to come around. I just upgraded my computer system mainly so I could add SKYPE  ( think that is what it's called )video system so we could see and talk to our year and a half old grandson nightly since he lives 3 hours from us. My old system would not support it so my son in law, who works in communications at the Penn State main campus in State College, picked out what would work best for us. It's an HP Pavilion  Slimline s5-1014 PC with wireless Deskjet 3000 printer, a huge flat type screen and Windows Live Essentials 2011 / Genuine Windows 7 Home Premium with all kinds of bundled software  none of which mean anything to me.  Just so what I need works.  I'm getting use to it but had to change the way I send pictures as attachments but it's coming slow but sure. Boy is it fast doing things.     The trains were a little at a standstill after the TIA. My hands were shaking so bad I couldn't get a screw driver in the screw slot . That is all gone and I am now starting to rebuild some items. I finished a Mantua / American Flyer 4-4-0 FY&P that I  rebuilt, repainted and decaled ( actually they are stickers ) from almost scratch. Although it is a reproduction it's hard to tell.   Although I am buying some small items for the collection and looking for a few I am watching for that basket case engine to redo or make into a fantasy engine like the 4-4-4-2 Beast I did to add to that part of my collection.    Most of what I have been doing train wise is helping Larry Stevenson / www.hoseeker.net. Besides sending a lot of paperwork to the Literature section he has added the Gallery which contains pictures of items from my collection. I have been adding small descriptions to my pictures , a little at a time. Gave me something to do.  Still lots to do.                                                                                           Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17020	From: Richard	Date: 7/20/2011
Subject: Re: Mantua Worm Gear Cover Needed

Sean, Thank you for the reply. Yes, it has the tabs and I can see that the cover was made to fit over the tabs. The hangers are not brass but just molded on the frame. As long as the cover has the three screw holes I don't think the tab problem will be a draw-back, as I should be able to file it to fit. Richard --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > Richard, > > Is yours with or with-out the tabs for the brass valve gear hangers? The first > generation had the tabs. The second did not. I assume yours does not since it is > on a pacific. I may or may not. I am not sure. I know I have first generation > type, but they are on Mikados. I am not sure if the pacific's had any is all. > I'll have to check later when I get home. > > Sean > > > "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario > Andretti! > > > > > ________________________________ > From: Richard <rh@...> > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tue, July 19, 2011 12:09:02 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Mantua Worm Gear Cover Needed > > > I've got a very old Mantua 4-6-2 (brass drivers) with Zemac rot on the worm gear > cover. Is there anyone on this list that might have a good one they could sell > to me? This one has three screws. I don't think I can get one from Yardbird Dan > as he doesn't answer his emails anymore plus his web site shows out of stock. > Thanks. > Richard Hamann in Vermont >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17021	From: John Webster	Date: 7/21/2011
Subject: Re: Mantua Worm Gear Cover Needed

If you have the Mantua part number call Bowser. They have lots of old Mantua parts in stock that don't show up in their online catalog.   John Webster

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17022	From: Jay	Date: 7/21/2011
Subject: Re: Welcome back

Thanks Jim H., Glad to hear that your medical difficulties are being resolved and you are back to active modeling. When I first got back here, I did check all of the recent attachments at once (by clicking on the "attachments" word in the upper left box on our group's home page) and did see that Mantual/American Flyer 4-4-0 restoration, but have not read the full accompaning story in messages yet. Great job as we are accustomed to seeing from you! I save some hobby cash on eBay during my limited time on line, but did manage to make some interesting finds, including a vintage custom built Lehigh Valley engine which I will write about later today. W Jay W --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > W Jay W, > > As I said before its good to have you back. Your knowledge and > additions to threads were always useful. I've made a number of > additions to my vintage collection but still looking for others. I ran > into some of the same troubles as you. After a TIA ( minor stroke ) > around Thanksgiving I've had a few medical problems that are starting to > come around. I just upgraded my computer system mainly so I could add > SKYPE ( think that is what it's called )video system so we could see > and talk to our year and a half old grandson nightly since he lives 3 > hours from us. My old system would not support it so my son in law, who > works in communications at the Penn State main campus in State College, > picked out what would work best for us. It's an HP Pavilion Slimline > s5-1014 PC with wireless Deskjet 3000 printer, a huge flat type screen > and Windows Live Essentials 2011 / Genuine Windows 7 Home Premium with > all kinds of bundled software none of which mean anything to me. Just > so what I need works. I'm getting use to it but had to change the way I > send pictures as attachments but it's coming slow but sure. Boy is it > fast doing things. > > The trains were a little at a standstill after the TIA. My hands > were shaking so bad I couldn't get a screw driver in the screw slot . > That is all gone and I am now starting to rebuild some items. I finished > a Mantua / American Flyer 4-4-0 FY&P that I rebuilt, repainted and > decaled ( actually they are stickers ) from almost scratch. Although it > is a reproduction it's hard to tell. Although I am buying some small > items for the collection and looking for a few I am watching for that > basket case engine to redo or make into a fantasy engine like the > 4-4-4-2 Beast I did to add to that part of my collection. > > Most of what I have been doing train wise is helping Larry Stevenson > / www.hoseeker.net. Besides sending a lot of paperwork to the Literature > section he has added the Gallery which contains pictures of items from > my collection. I have been adding small descriptions to my pictures , a > little at a time. Gave me something to do. Still lots to do. > > Jim H > // >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17023	From: Jay Wanczyk	Date: 7/22/2011
Subject: EMC Model 60 Boxcab Gas Electric Switcher, Lehigh Valley Prototype

Attachments : EMC EMC-17023 EMC-17023(1) Hi All,   About a month ago, I spotted what was nominally listed as a "Varney boxcab diesel switcher" though the seller (correctly) stated that could likely be only the brand of coupler pocket.  The locomotive looked somewhat familiar to me in terms of a prototype, though with its large end platforms and a lower roof over the cabs, it was clearly not intended to be a model of the standard Alco-GE-IR 60 ton boxcab switchers, first imported in brass by International and decades later manufactured in plastic with die cast frame by MDC/Roundhouse.   The more I looked at those eBay photos, I guessed that this was a vintage late 1950's or early 1960's model constructed by a talented modeler based on a specific prototype.   I narrowly won it and it was not until I unwrapped it that I recognized the prototype from a photo in the Second Diesel Spotters Guide, 1973, page 357, and photos and plans in Carstens Loco 1, The Diesel, pages 24-25.  Those plans, drawn by Al Kamm, Jr., may have appeared earlier in RMC as they are dated 1963.   This model is a very accurate and well proportioned model of an Electro-Motive Co. Model 60 Gas Electric Boxcab locomotive, with car body constructed by Bethlehem Steel.   Two of the three demonstrator models built circa 1930 were purchased and used by the Lehigh Valley railroad in their Jersey City and Bronx NY yards.       The LV prototypes were first numbered 75 and 76, later 115 and 116.  Interestingly, The Second Diesel Spotters guide which generally did not include gas electrics, did include one of these Model 60’s under the heading of builder Bethlehem Steel as some trade publications stated that one of the units may have been originally built with a small diesel engine, later changed to gas.  In reviewing the prototype photos I had in half a dozen different books, I noticed that LV 75/115 had three rooftop radiators at each end, and 76/116, two at each end.  Since two of the three prototypes by EMC pictured in the Carstens book had three radiators at each end, there are good odds that the "three radiator" units were originally built with the 300 hp gas motors and the "two radiator" unit at least originally had the diesel unit, later changed to gas, as later LV records seem to reflect that both of their EMC 60's [as well as a Brill Boxcab] were gas powered.)  Since my model has three radiators, it can represent LV 75/115.   The model is constructed entirely of metal, the sides, ends and floor appear to be of a flat sheet stock: not brass, aluminum or a ferrous metal, perhaps zinc sheet?  The "bi-level" roof, lower over the end cabs is formed of tin plated thin steel, as are the inner window frames.  End steps are thin sheet brass or copper, they are easy to bend! Handrails are hard brass wire and the frame side rails are sections of brass rail, everything soldered together with good joints.    The motor inside is a large older can type motor with cover removed, one Bakelite end and one  machined aluminum end, looking much like a decades old 12 v. automotive power accessory motor with twin shafts. It is a very smooth and quiet motor.   Each shaft end was connected by rubber band belt to the geared truck jack shafts which iincorporate a worm at each end and a pulley in the center, molded in one piece of ivory (nylon?) plastic.  The trucks have 9' wheelbase AAR class B side frames, the cast brass side frames are an integral part of the plastic and metal trucks and not add-ons. The drive trucks do not resemble any common domestic HO units I am familiar with, could be of  Japanese origin.  (I actually have one or two of those molded jack shafts in my parts supply bins and I could never figure out their origin!) Can anyone identify the drive in the attached photo #2.  Standard Athearn belts work, but have some neoprene O-rings to try as well, they may last longer.   In making comparison to the EMC, later LV prototypes, the first detail that needs to be added are the battery boxes between the trucks.  While the Carstens plans show a 5' box, there is less room on the model since the builder used 9' wheelbase road switcher trucks instead of 7-1/2' w.b. switcher trucks.  When restoring vintage models, I try to use parts that would have been available at the time the model was built when possible and I immediately thought of the vintage Walthers passenger car white metal battery box covers.  They are molded in two sections and can easily be snapped in half, showing one complete door with hinges, latches etc, measuring 4-1/2' - perfect for this purpose.  I have cut wood back up boxes and will mount them after stripping the paint.   According to the plans and photos, the prototype had recessed convex end air tanks behind each box and while mostly hidden, I may add suitable Kemtron tanks, (now Precision Scale Models).   The unit also is missing the strap steps at the end of each side and under the doors and simple braces behind each step.  I will add these if they do not foul the truck swing, which is possibly why the builder left them of originally.  Later LV photos show two tall sand boxes perched on each end platform and "hooped-up" end handrails, but the model is built to the factory configuration without those details.  I could modify it, I thought, but then found an earlier, late 1930's view showing LV operated them for several years without the upgrades, so the model does not need to be changed to represent LV.   I will upgrade the couplers from "NMRA" to Kadee, bit will retain the extended standard Varney draft gear, which again were mounted to reflect the prototype detail.   As you can tell, I am thrilled to find this vintage model and feel privileged to have it in my collection.  Too bad the name of the modeler who built it has been lost, though - he deserves the credit.   Jay W.

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 17024	From: jake_iv@juno.com	Date: 7/22/2011
Subject: Re: EMC Model 60 Boxcab Gas Electric Switcher, Lehigh Vall ey Protot

Congrats Jay !  A truly fabulous find.   Fine examples of the work of vintage modelers are becoming harder and harder to find.  Thank you for preserving this one and sharing it with us. Jake Bechtel Gadsden, AL

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17025	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 7/22/2011
Subject: Box Cab Diesel

W Jay W, If that boxcab that you sent pictures of was just won off eBay about a week ago I now know who outbid me to get it. If I remember it was not listed as a box cab. Glad to see the pictures because I was wondering about it. Was it a project engine of someones. I don't remember any brass box cab other then one Polk's sold under the Aristo Craft label as Jersey Central's Old 1000. The only picture I have doesn't match up detail wise to your engine. I know of the MDC / Roundhouse plastic body model and Lenahan's Locomotive Lexicon has one by IMP ( Which might be the same one Polk sold ) and I'm sure there could be more. Jim

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17026	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 7/22/2011
Subject: Re: EMC Model 60 Boxcab Gas Electric Switcher, Lehigh Valley Prototy

Jay! I was watching that bugger too!... Don't think I bid though. Glad to see you got it! Although, I think it is a shame we VintageHO guys always seem to be bidding against each other on stuff like this. It is what it is though.   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: Jay Wanczyk <the_plainsman@...> To: "vintageHO@yahoogroups.com" <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, July 22, 2011 10:11 AM Subject: [vintageHO] EMC Model 60 Boxcab Gas Electric Switcher, Lehigh Valley Prototype [3 Attachments]   Hi All,   About a month ago, I spotted what was nominally listed as a "Varney boxcab diesel switcher" though the seller (correctly) stated that could likely be only the brand of coupler pocket.  The locomotive looked somewhat familiar to me in terms of a prototype, though with its large end platforms and a lower roof over the cabs, it was clearly not intended to be a model of the standard Alco-GE-IR 60 ton boxcab switchers, first imported in brass by International and decades later manufactured in plastic with die cast frame by MDC/Roundhouse.   The more I looked at those eBay photos, I guessed that this was a vintage late 1950's or early 1960's model constructed by a talented modeler based on a specific prototype.   I narrowly won it and it was not until I unwrapped it that I recognized the prototype from a photo in the Second Diesel Spotters Guide, 1973, page 357, and photos and plans in Carstens Loco 1, The Diesel, pages 24-25.  Those plans, drawn by Al Kamm, Jr., may have appeared earlier in RMC as they are dated 1963.   This model is a very accurate and well proportioned model of an Electro-Motive Co. Model 60 Gas Electric Boxcab locomotive, with car body constructed by Bethlehem Steel.   Two of the three demonstrator models built circa 1930 were purchased and used by the Lehigh Valley railroad in their Jersey City and Bronx NY yards.       The LV prototypes were first numbered 75 and 76, later 115 and 116.  Interestingly, The Second Diesel Spotters guide which generally did not include gas electrics, did include one of these Model 60’s under the heading of builder Bethlehem Steel as some trade publications stated that one of the units may have been originally built with a small diesel engine, later changed to gas.  In reviewing the prototype photos I had in half a dozen different books, I noticed that LV 75/115 had three rooftop radiators at each end, and 76/116, two at each end.  Since two of the three prototypes by EMC pictured in the Carstens book had three radiators at each end, there are good odds that the "three radiator" units were originally built with the 300 hp gas motors and the "two radiator" unit at least originally had the diesel unit, later changed to gas, as later LV records seem to reflect that both of their EMC 60's [as well as a Brill Boxcab] were gas powered.)  Since my model has three radiators, it can represent LV 75/115.   The model is constructed entirely of metal, the sides, ends and floor appear to be of a flat sheet stock: not brass, aluminum or a ferrous metal, perhaps zinc sheet?  The "bi-level" roof, lower over the end cabs is formed of tin plated thin steel, as are the inner window frames.  End steps are thin sheet brass or copper, they are easy to bend! Handrails are hard brass wire and the frame side rails are sections of brass rail, everything soldered together with good joints.    The motor inside is a large older can type motor with cover removed, one Bakelite end and one  machined aluminum end, looking much like a decades old 12 v. automotive power accessory motor with twin shafts. It is a very smooth and quiet motor.   Each shaft end was connected by rubber band belt to the geared truck jack shafts which iincorporate a worm at each end and a pulley in the center, molded in one piece of ivory (nylon?) plastic.  The trucks have 9' wheelbase AAR class B side frames, the cast brass side frames are an integral part of the plastic and metal trucks and not add-ons. The drive trucks do not resemble any common domestic HO units I am familiar with, could be of  Japanese origin.  (I actually have one or two of those molded jack shafts in my parts supply bins and I could never figure out their origin!) Can anyone identify the drive in the attached photo #2.  Standard Athearn belts work, but have some neoprene O-rings to try as well, they may last longer.   In making comparison to the EMC, later LV prototypes, the first detail that needs to be added are the battery boxes between the trucks.  While the Carstens plans show a 5' box, there is less room on the model since the builder used 9' wheelbase road switcher trucks instead of 7-1/2' w.b. switcher trucks.  When restoring vintage models, I try to use parts that would have been available at the time the model was built when possible and I immediately thought of the vintage Walthers passenger car white metal battery box covers.  They are molded in two sections and can easily be snapped in half, showing one complete door with hinges, latches etc, measuring 4-1/2' - perfect for this purpose.  I have cut wood back up boxes and will mount them after stripping the paint.   According to the plans and photos, the prototype had recessed convex end air tanks behind each box and while mostly hidden, I may add suitable Kemtron tanks, (now Precision Scale Models).   The unit also is missing the strap steps at the end of each side and under the doors and simple braces behind each step.  I will add these if they do not foul the truck swing, which is possibly why the builder left them of originally.  Later LV photos show two tall sand boxes perched on each end platform and "hooped-up" end handrails, but the model is built to the factory configuration without those details.  I could modify it, I thought, but then found an earlier, late 1930's view showing LV operated them for several years without the upgrades, so the model does not need to be changed to represent LV.   I will upgrade the couplers from "NMRA" to Kadee, bit will retain the extended standard Varney draft gear, which again were mounted to reflect the prototype detail.   As you can tell, I am thrilled to find this vintage model and feel privileged to have it in my collection.  Too bad the name of the modeler who built it has been lost, though - he deserves the credit.   Jay W.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17027	From: Jay	Date: 7/22/2011
Subject: Re: EMC Model 60 Boxcab Gas Electric Switcher, Lehigh Valley Prototy

Jim, Sean - I actually double-checked here to see if anyone had posted about the listing and if they had informal dibbs on it before the bidding closed. Being that it had the Varney name in the listing, I'm sure many had seen it, not like some of the gems many of us have found that had very general bland descriptions. I will take better photos of it soon and post - the ones I posted were from the listing. One detail I forgot to metion was that the builder embossed the side panel rivits on a brass or copper strip and then attached those to the sides, a very neat job. Jay --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > Jay! > > I was watching that bugger too!... Don't think I bid though. > > > Glad to see you got it! Although, I think it is a shame we VintageHO guys always seem to be bidding against each other on stuff like this. It is what it is though. > >   > Sean > > > "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! > > > ________________________________ > From: Jay Wanczyk <the_plainsman@...> > To: "vintageHO@yahoogroups.com" <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, July 22, 2011 10:11 AM > Subject: [vintageHO] EMC Model 60 Boxcab Gas Electric Switcher, Lehigh Valley Prototype [3 Attachments] > > >   > [Attachment(s) from Jay Wanczyk included below] > Hi All, >   > About a month ago, I spotted what was nominally listed as a "Varney boxcab diesel switcher" though the seller (correctly) stated that could likely be only the brand of coupler pocket.  The locomotive looked somewhat familiar to me in terms of a prototype, though with its large end platforms and a lower roof over the cabs, it was clearly not intended to be a model of the standard Alco-GE-IR 60 ton boxcab switchers, first imported in brass by International and decades later manufactured in plastic with die cast frame by MDC/Roundhouse.   The more I looked at those eBay photos, I guessed that this was a vintage late 1950's or early 1960's model constructed by a talented modeler based on a specific prototype. >   > I narrowly won it and it was not until I unwrapped it that I recognized the prototype from a photo in the Second Diesel Spotters Guide, 1973, page 357, and photos and plans in Carstens Loco 1, The Diesel, pages 24-25.  Those plans, drawn by Al Kamm, Jr., may have appeared earlier in RMC as they are dated 1963.   This model is a very accurate and well proportioned model of an Electro-Motive Co. Model 60 Gas Electric Boxcab locomotive, with car body constructed by Bethlehem Steel.   Two of the three demonstrator models built circa 1930 were purchased and used by the Lehigh Valley railroad in their Jersey City and Bronx NY yards.    >    > The LV prototypes were first numbered 75 and 76, later 115 and 116.  Interestingly, The Second Diesel Spotters guide which generally did not include gas electrics, did include one of these Model 60’s under the heading of builder Bethlehem Steel as some trade publications stated that one of the units may have been originally built with a small diesel engine, later changed to gas.  In reviewing the prototype photos I had in half a dozen different books, I noticed that LV 75/115 had three rooftop radiators at each end, and 76/116, two at each end.  Since two of the three prototypes by EMC pictured in the Carstens book had three radiators at each end, there are good odds that the "three radiator" units were originally built with the 300 hp gas motors and the "two radiator" unit at least originally had the diesel unit, later changed to gas, as later LV records seem to reflect that both of their EMC 60's [as well as a Brill Boxcab] were gas > powered.)  Since my model has three radiators, it can represent LV 75/115. >   > The model is constructed entirely of metal, the sides, ends and floor appear to be of a flat sheet stock: not brass, aluminum or a ferrous metal, perhaps zinc sheet?  The "bi-level" roof, lower over the end cabs is formed of tin plated thin steel, as are the inner window frames.  End steps are thin sheet brass or copper, they are easy to bend! Handrails are hard brass wire and the frame side rails are sections of brass rail, everything soldered together with good joints.  >   > The motor inside is a large older can type motor with cover removed, one Bakelite end and one  machined aluminum end, looking much like a decades old 12 v. automotive power accessory motor with twin shafts. It is a very smooth and quiet motor.   Each shaft end was connected by rubber band belt to the geared truck jack shafts which iincorporate a worm at each end and a pulley in the center, molded in one piece of ivory (nylon?) plastic.  The trucks have 9' wheelbase AAR class B side frames, the cast brass side frames are an integral part of the plastic and metal trucks and not add-ons. The drive trucks do not resemble any common domestic HO units I am familiar with, could be of  Japanese origin.  (I actually have one or two of those molded jack shafts in my parts supply bins and I could never figure out their origin!) Can anyone identify the drive in the attached photo #2.  Standard Athearn belts work, but have some neoprene O-rings to try as > well, they may last longer. >   > In making comparison to the EMC, later LV prototypes, the first detail that needs to be added are the battery boxes between the trucks.  While the Carstens plans show a 5' box, there is less room on the model since the builder used 9' wheelbase road switcher trucks instead of 7-1/2' w.b. switcher trucks.  When restoring vintage models, I try to use parts that would have been available at the time the model was built when possible and I immediately thought of the vintage Walthers passenger car white metal battery box covers.  They are molded in two sections and can easily be snapped in half, showing one complete door with hinges, latches etc, measuring 4-1/2' - perfect for this purpose.  I have cut wood back up boxes and will mount them after stripping the paint.   According to the plans and photos, the prototype had recessed convex end air tanks behind each box and while mostly hidden, I may add suitable Kemtron tanks, (now Precision Scale > Models). >   > The unit also is missing the strap steps at the end of each side and under the doors and simple braces behind each step.  I will add these if they do not foul the truck swing, which is possibly why the builder left them of originally.  Later LV photos show two tall sand boxes perched on each end platform and "hooped-up" end handrails, but the model is built to the factory configuration without those details.  I could modify it, I thought, but then found an earlier, late 1930's view showing LV operated them for several years without the upgrades, so the model does not need to be changed to represent LV. >   > > I will upgrade the couplers from "NMRA" to Kadee, bit will retain the extended standard Varney draft gear, which again were mounted to reflect the prototype detail. >   > As you can tell, I am thrilled to find this vintage model and feel privileged to have it in my collection.  Too bad the name of the modeler who built it has been lost, though - he deserves the credit. >   > Jay W. >   >   >   >   >   >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17028	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 7/22/2011
Subject: Re: EMC Model 60 Boxcab Gas Electric Switcher, Lehigh Valley Prototy

W Jay W,    As Sean and I both know everyone has a right to bid. There is no dibs on an item. However Sean and I sometimes I discuss some things privately in an effort not to have a bidding war between us. It's a shame if a lot of times we are bidding against each other or others from the group raising the price. I'm glad that someone got it I know and appreciates what it is. To me it's vintage history saved even when it was made by a modeler and not a manufactured item.                                                            Jim On 7/22/2011 10:57 AM, Jay wrote:   Jim, Sean - I actually double-checked here to see if anyone had posted about the listing and if they had informal dibbs on it before the bidding closed. Being that it had the Varney name in the listing, I'm sure many had seen it, not like some of the gems many of us have found that had very general bland descriptions. I will take better photos of it soon and post - the ones I posted were from the listing. One detail I forgot to metion was that the builder embossed the side panel rivits on a brass or copper strip and then attached those to the sides, a very neat job. Jay --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > Jay! > > I was watching that bugger too!... Don't think I bid though. > > > Glad to see you got it! Although, I think it is a shame we VintageHO guys always seem to be bidding against each other on stuff like this. It is what it is though. > >   > Sean > > > "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! > > > ________________________________ > From: Jay Wanczyk <the_plainsman@...> > To: "vintageHO@yahoogroups.com" <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, July 22, 2011 10:11 AM > Subject: [vintageHO] EMC Model 60 Boxcab Gas Electric Switcher, Lehigh Valley Prototype [3 Attachments] > > >   > [Attachment(s) from Jay Wanczyk included below] > Hi All, >   > About a month ago, I spotted what was nominally listed as a "Varney boxcab diesel switcher" though the seller (correctly) stated that could likely be only the brand of coupler pocket.  The locomotive looked somewhat familiar to me in terms of a prototype, though with its large end platforms and a lower roof over the cabs, it was clearly not intended to be a model of the standard Alco-GE-IR 60 ton boxcab switchers, first imported in brass by International and decades later manufactured in plastic with die cast frame by MDC/Roundhouse.   The more I looked at those eBay photos, I guessed that this was a vintage late 1950's or early 1960's model constructed by a talented modeler based on a specific prototype. >   > I narrowly won it and it was not until I unwrapped it that I recognized the prototype from a photo in the Second Diesel Spotters Guide, 1973, page 357, and photos and plans in Carstens Loco 1, The Diesel, pages 24-25.  Those plans, drawn by Al Kamm, Jr., may have appeared earlier in RMC as they are dated 1963.   This model is a very accurate and well proportioned model of an Electro-Motive Co. Model 60 Gas Electric Boxcab locomotive, with car body constructed by Bethlehem Steel.   Two of the three demonstrator models built circa 1930 were purchased and used by the Lehigh Valley railroad in their Jersey City and Bronx NY yards.    >    > The LV prototypes were first numbered 75 and 76, later 115 and 116.  Interestingly, The Second Diesel Spotters guide which generally did not include gas electrics, did include one of these Model 60’s under the heading of builder Bethlehem Steel as some trade publications stated that one of the units may have been originally built with a small diesel engine, later changed to gas.  In reviewing the prototype photos I had in half a dozen different books, I noticed that LV 75/115 had three rooftop radiators at each end, and 76/116, two at each end.  Since two of the three prototypes by EMC pictured in the Carstens book had three radiators at each end, there are good odds that the "three radiator" units were originally built with the 300 hp gas motors and the "two radiator" unit at least originally had the diesel unit, later changed to gas, as later LV records seem to reflect that both of their EMC 60's [as well as a Brill Boxcab] were gas > powered.)  Since my model has three radiators, it can represent LV 75/115. >   > The model is constructed entirely of metal, the sides, ends and floor appear to be of a flat sheet stock: not brass, aluminum or a ferrous metal, perhaps zinc sheet?  The "bi-level" roof, lower over the end cabs is formed of tin plated thin steel, as are the inner window frames.  End steps are thin sheet brass or copper, they are easy to bend! Handrails are hard brass wire and the frame side rails are sections of brass rail, everything soldered together with good joints.  >   > The motor inside is a large older can type motor with cover removed, one Bakelite end and one  machined aluminum end, looking much like a decades old 12 v. automotive power accessory motor with twin shafts. It is a very smooth and quiet motor.   Each shaft end was connected by rubber band belt to the geared truck jack shafts which iincorporate a worm at each end and a pulley in the center, molded in one piece of ivory (nylon?) plastic.  The trucks have 9' wheelbase AAR class B side frames, the cast brass side frames are an integral part of the plastic and metal trucks and not add-ons. The drive trucks do not resemble any common domestic HO units I am familiar with, could be of  Japanese origin.  (I actually have one or two of those molded jack shafts in my parts supply bins and I could never figure out their origin!) Can anyone identify the drive in the attached photo #2.  Standard Athearn belts work, but have some neoprene O-rings to try as > well, they may last longer. >   > In making comparison to the EMC, later LV prototypes, the first detail that needs to be added are the battery boxes between the trucks.  While the Carstens plans show a 5' box, there is less room on the model since the builder used 9' wheelbase road switcher trucks instead of 7-1/2' w.b. switcher trucks.  When restoring vintage models, I try to use parts that would have been available at the time the model was built when possible and I immediately thought of the vintage Walthers passenger car white metal battery box covers.  They are molded in two sections and can easily be snapped in half, showing one complete door with hinges, latches etc, measuring 4-1/2' - perfect for this purpose.  I have cut wood back up boxes and will mount them after stripping the paint.   According to the plans and photos, the prototype had recessed convex end air tanks behind each box and while mostly hidden, I may add suitable Kemtron tanks, (now Precision Scale > Models). >   > The unit also is missing the strap steps at the end of each side and under the doors and simple braces behind each step.  I will add these if they do not foul the truck swing, which is possibly why the builder left them of originally.  Later LV photos show two tall sand boxes perched on each end platform and "hooped-up" end handrails, but the model is built to the factory configuration without those details.  I could modify it, I thought, but then found an earlier, late 1930's view showing LV operated them for several years without the upgrades, so the model does not need to be changed to represent LV. >   > > I will upgrade the couplers from "NMRA" to Kadee, bit will retain the extended standard Varney draft gear, which again were mounted to reflect the prototype detail. >   > As you can tell, I am thrilled to find this vintage model and feel privileged to have it in my collection.  Too bad the name of the modeler who built it has been lost, though - he deserves the credit. >   > Jay W. >   >   >   >   >   >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17029	From: jbark76	Date: 7/22/2011
Subject: Re: Need help?

Unfortunately, prices will very widely for these. The same item may sell for $50 one day and $100 when one comes up again. A common Dockside switcher may go for $10, while a Yellowstone articulated may go for hundreds. For Varney in particular there are some things to look for to see how old or rare the item may be...Boilers: cast brass or lead? Brass is older and more valuable. Motors: 6V (prewar) or 12V (postwar), open frame or enclosed (supermotor). Steam engine frame: Their delux engines had a spring loaded wire that would allow the wheels to move up and down to stay on the track better, while the economy version had a solid frame. If you have the Greenburg Varney book, I assume it will point these things out. I hope this will help you determine what you have. -Jeff Barker-

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17030	From: Michael Bauers	Date: 7/22/2011
Subject: Snagged a Paul Moore kit.

I've got an elusive Paul Moore HO little Scoot working it's way through the mail to me. Funny thing about those Yahoo auctions, you rarely know just which model you are bidding on when it comes to a Paul Moore. They like to show the box, the stack of parts, the instructions. You get to guess what sides the kit actually has. This Scoot is like that. I don't know if it's a freighter, a passenger, a gasser, or an electric. But it's a Scoot with it's castings and what seems like all other parts. A couple of months ago I got one of Paul's Korean War era kits. Until I got to open the box, it was a complete mystery as to which it was. But that's okay. It was later found to be from the Korean War era, had almost no castings, and had the most uniquely crafted poles and pilots in it. The true bonus was the included catalog sheets that contained Paul's thumbs for an ACF type of streamlined Doodlebug in a number of variations. I'd not seen this much detail on those kits. It seems they were out of the catalog sometime soon after. I should have the Scoot in about a week and after it arrives, I'll post details and images of both kits. I'll never build mine. Instead it seems I'm learning quite a bit from them, and I have some plans for that education. I'll be putting the kits on display in a wall case. They have been tucked away long enough. Eventually they will have new relatives operating in HO. Best to all, Mike Bauers

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17031	From: ragc4x5x7	Date: 7/22/2011
Subject: Re: Snagged a Paul Moore kit.

What is a 'scoot'? --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Michael Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote: > > I've got an elusive Paul Moore HO little Scoot working it's way through the mail to me. > > Funny thing about those Yahoo auctions, you rarely know just which model you are bidding on when it comes to a Paul Moore. They like to show the box, the stack of parts, the instructions. You get to guess what sides the kit actually has. This Scoot is like that. > > I don't know if it's a freighter, a passenger, a gasser, or an electric. > > But it's a Scoot with it's castings and what seems like all other parts. > > A couple of months ago I got one of Paul's Korean War era kits. Until I got to open the box, it was a complete mystery as to which it was. > > But that's okay. It was later found to be from the Korean War era, had almost no castings, and had the most uniquely crafted poles and pilots in it. > > The true bonus was the included catalog sheets that contained Paul's thumbs for an ACF type of streamlined Doodlebug in a number of variations. I'd not seen this much detail on those kits. It seems they were out of the catalog sometime soon after. > > I should have the Scoot in about a week and after it arrives, I'll post details and images of both kits. > > I'll never build mine. Instead it seems I'm learning quite a bit from them, and I have some plans for that education. I'll be putting the kits on display in a wall case. > > They have been tucked away long enough. Eventually they will have new relatives operating in HO. > > Best to all, > Mike Bauers >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17032	From: Michael Bauers	Date: 7/22/2011
Subject: Re: Snagged a Paul Moore kit.

One of these kits. Designed to fit on the Athearn Hustler chassis........ http://www.guidetozscale.com/html/little_scoots.html Best to all, Mike Bauers On Jul 22, 2011, at 5:49 PM, ragc4x5x7 wrote: > > What is a 'scoot'? > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Michael Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote: >> >> I've got an elusive Paul Moore HO little Scoot working it's way through the mail to me. >> >> Funny thing about those Yahoo auctions, you rarely know just which model you are bidding on when it comes to a Paul Moore. ...........

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17033	From: ragc4x5x7	Date: 7/22/2011
Subject: Re: Snagged a Paul Moore kit.

Thanks! I know them as "trolleys". Cool find! --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Michael Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote: > > One of these kits. Designed to fit on the Athearn Hustler chassis........ > > http://www.guidetozscale.com/html/little_scoots.html > > Best to all, > Mike Bauers > > On Jul 22, 2011, at 5:49 PM, ragc4x5x7 wrote: > > > > > What is a 'scoot'? > > > > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Michael Bauers <mwbauers55@> wrote: > >> > >> I've got an elusive Paul Moore HO little Scoot working it's way through the mail to me. > >> > >> Funny thing about those Yahoo auctions, you rarely know just which model you are bidding on when it comes to a Paul Moore. ........... >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17034	From: Michael Bauers	Date: 7/22/2011
Subject: Re: Snagged a Paul Moore kit.

Look at the Gasser variations also in the Scoot group........ His 60-65 foot Gassers are absolute gems of design; matching trailers as well. Some of his later catalog sheets are on the HOseeker site. This page..... http://hoseeker.net/interurban.html Some of the Gassers here....... <http://hoseeker.net/paulmoore/paulmooreadvertisementtrolleycar560pg2.jpg> Mike Bauers On Jul 22, 2011, at 5:53 PM, ragc4x5x7 wrote: > Thanks! I know them as "trolleys". Cool find! > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Michael Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote: >> >> One of these kits. Designed to fit on the Athearn Hustler chassis........ >> >> http://www.guidetozscale.com/html/little_scoots.html >> >> Best to all, >> Mike Bauers >> >> On Jul 22, 2011, at 5:49 PM, ragc4x5x7 wrote: >> >>> >>> What is a 'scoot'?

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17035	From: corlissbs@aol.com	Date: 7/22/2011
Subject: Re: Snagged a Paul Moore kit.

Mike, weren't you going to reproduce the Little Scoot kits?   Brad

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17036	From: Michael Bauers	Date: 7/22/2011
Subject: Re: Snagged a Paul Moore kit.

I keep changing my methods. Latest is to make masters, add riveting, and RTV cast. Finally getting a couple of Paul Moore kits cleared up some lingering questions I've had. Maybe it would have been wiser to guess on some more of that. but the plus for me is that now I have more solid drawings of the ACF type of motorailers that Paul made before the 60's. Oh heck it would have been better........ To tell the truth, my summer months are spent working in an unvented and uncooled  factory. Add 10-20 degrees over the air temperature and that's the general inside temps during the hot months. And it's been darned hot........ I saved up for a laser cutter and other tools, and recently had a car accident. I'm waiting for my insurance company to let me know how much this will cost me. I'll know what tools I can still afford in about two weeks.  At the least, I can now vac-form roofs and cast from masters. I'll know better by the middle of next month. I do have a few of the new-age better than Hustler mechs to build scoots around. Let's see what first draft detailed body I can have ready in about 30 days. Once the Scoot kit arrives, I can be rock solid on some still guessed at dimensions. Mike Bauers. By the way, this is being written on the new computer for the cnc-cutters. On Jul 22, 2011, at 6:30 PM, corlissbs@... wrote: Mike, weren't you going to reproduce the Little Scoot kits?   Brad

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17037	From: Jay Wanczyk	Date: 7/22/2011
Subject: Photo Re: [vintageHO] Snagged a Paul Moore kit.

Attachments : Paul Moore Assembled Kits.jpg Hi Mike B.,  Great to see you got it, and at a fair price if I recall.  I have a search for them and very few Scoot kits show up, have only spotted one or two built up gas electrics in larger lots, with no ID.  Attached is a photo of a spectacular lot of gas electrics that sold a few years ago on eBay. A nice feature of some of the Moore kits is that he used some familiar Walthers white metal parts in the kits,  so sometimes a missing piece can be found in old parts lots.  Jay   From: Michael Bauers <mwbauers55@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, July 22, 2011 6:08 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Snagged a Paul Moore kit.   I've got an elusive Paul Moore HO little Scoot working it's way through the mail to me. Funny thing about those Yahoo auctions, you rarely know just which model you are bidding on when it comes to a Paul Moore. They like to show the box, the stack of parts, the instructions. You get to guess what sides the kit actually has. This Scoot is like that. I don't know if it's a freighter, a passenger, a gasser, or an electric. But it's a Scoot with it's castings and what seems like all other parts. A couple of months ago I got one of Paul's Korean War era kits. Until I got to open the box, it was a complete mystery as to which it was. But that's okay. It was later found to be from the Korean War era, had almost no castings, and had the most uniquely crafted poles and pilots in it. The true bonus was the included catalog sheets that contained Paul's thumbs for an ACF type of streamlined Doodlebug in a number of variations. I'd not seen this much detail on those kits. It seems they were out of the catalog sometime soon after. I should have the Scoot in about a week and after it arrives, I'll post details and images of both kits. I'll never build mine. Instead it seems I'm learning quite a bit from them, and I have some plans for that education. I'll be putting the kits on display in a wall case. They have been tucked away long enough. Eventually they will have new relatives operating in HO. Best to all, Mike Bauers

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 17038	From: Michael Bauers	Date: 7/22/2011
Subject: Re: Photo Re: [vintageHO] Snagged a Paul Moore kit. [1 Attachment]

That set looks familiar. I wonder if I saw it on eBay before? I've had the darnest poor luck at winning those auctions. So it's been the long way to get to where I think I can finally make my own. The last several P.M's I saw offered were mostly mangled long-built pieces. Tempting, yet easy to talk myself out of going for them. It's rare to find a decent looking built-up Scoot and much more rare to find an unbuilt kit. What works best for me is to not get in the bidding until those last few minutes. Sometimes it works out. Get a load of this new cnc-cutter. http://knkzing.com/ Paul would have loved one of these things.......... He would have been more of a volume producer. Envision stacks of car side panels being cranked out in an evening instead of mainly one window or door edge cut at a time on the kitchen table in the evenings. From what I have been able to match the PM '50's kit materials with at the local artist supply store, he was using a mid-range surface grade of Strathmore 100-pound art board. It is about midway in surface texture between todays charcoal media and drawing media finishes. Quite possibly the typical Strathmore art card of the day.I bought a bunch of the stuff to work with. A few more layers for depth with a finish of the new urethane scale rivet decals and Paul's methods would fit in well with today's modeling standards. In 2-3 weeks I'll be putting up close detail shots of Paul's work. Elements of what I found used in the circa 1950 kit are simply masterful solutions on Paul's part. The sides are layered and somewhat pre-assembled with different thicknesses of papers. The glued together main side assemblies are as fresh today as if they had been assembled by Paul days ago instead of decades ago. They actually did have some sort of wonder glue even back then. Soon, I'll see which Scoot I actually bought. One of the sets of catalog sheets on HOseeker shows the different ends and widths of the cars. They did come in either Railroad standard and traction standard widths. The same sides worked equally as well for either width. A bit over a couple of days and I'll have the rest of the graphics software in this new system. The gals keep telling me that the cnc-cutter software is as good as most cad programs. A bunch of measurements and I'll see what I can do with Paul's wrap the ends methods of making the car ends from flat sheet, with an eye to pumping out sheets of end and side sets. I have this sort of unique idea of how to lay out the sides and ends on the screen and plop the windows and doors in the right places with a way to have them fall into just the right alignment. Using a certain layout and one reference line, a library of car doors, windows and some other details can be gradually assembled and thereafter just have everything drop into their proper places with all frames and sills precisely aligned. To the point where you make the final decision of what scale to print or cut in and all the fussy work is almost automatically done. Whether you want a cnc-cut pattern or a set of to be handcut workbench templates to print out. I don't think I've invented this. It's a variation of some parts of methods I've seen here and there. One of the 'standards of these new-age PM-like cars are to be the critical dimensions of MDC Pullman Palace doors and windows per framing details. The window and doors sills and frames simply look 'right' as modeled, compared to the real things. I'm quite happily still having fun with this..... Mike Bauers On Jul 22, 2011, at 9:07 PM, Jay Wanczyk wrote: > [Attachment(s) from Jay Wanczyk included below] > > Hi Mike B., Great to see you got it, and at a fair price if I recall. I have a search for them and very few Scoot kits show up, have only spotted one or two built up gas electrics in larger lots, with no ID. Attached is a photo of a spectacular lot of gas electrics that sold a few years ago on eBay. A nice feature of some of the Moore kits is that he used some familiar Walthers white metal parts in the kits, so sometimes a missing piece can be found in old parts lots. Jay > > > From: Michael Bauers > > I've got an elusive Paul Moore HO little Scoot working it's way through the mail to me. > > Funny thing about those Yahoo auctions, you rarely know just which model you are bidding on when it comes to a Paul Moore. They like to show the box, the stack of parts, the instructions. You get to guess what sides the kit actually has. This Scoot is like that. > > I don't know if it's a freighter, a passenger, a gasser, or an electric. > > But it's a Scoot with it's castings and what seems like all other parts.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17039	From: Railroad Modeler	Date: 7/22/2011
Subject: Re: Snagged a Paul Moore kit.

*Very* nice find, Mike, I can’t wait to see the photos!! Do you have an auction number? I’d like to see whatever they posted on this little beauty.   Regards,   Ken B     From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Michael Bauers Sent: Friday, July 22, 2011 4:09 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Snagged a Paul Moore kit. I've got an elusive Paul Moore HO little Scoot working it's way through the mail to me.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17040	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 7/23/2011
Subject: Re: Snagged a Paul Moore kit.

Thanks Ken, I think this is the eBay item number.... Item #: 360380466228 It's sort of funny to see just what images the seller decided to use. You can soon see why it's a bit of a mystery.  Mike Bauers Sent from my iPhone On Jul 22, 2011, at 11:17 PM, Railroad Modeler <railroad.modeler@...> wrote:   *Very* nice find, Mike, I can’t wait to see the photos!! Do you have an auction number? I’d like to see whatever they posted on this little beauty.   Regards,   Ken B     From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Michael Bauers Sent: Friday, July 22, 2011 4:09 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Snagged a Paul Moore kit. I've got an elusive Paul Moore HO little Scoot working it's way through the mail to me.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17041	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 7/23/2011
Subject: Re: Mantua Worm Gear Cover Needed

I have one Richard, Send me your address. This one is like new and was never mounted.   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: Richard <rh@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2011 1:53 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Mantua Worm Gear Cover Needed   Sean, Thank you for the reply. Yes, it has the tabs and I can see that the cover was made to fit over the tabs. The hangers are not brass but just molded on the frame. As long as the cover has the three screw holes I don't think the tab problem will be a draw-back, as I should be able to file it to fit. Richard --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > Richard, > > Is yours with or with-out the tabs for the brass valve gear hangers? The first > generation had the tabs. The second did not. I assume yours does not since it is > on a pacific. I may or may not. I am not sure. I know I have first generation > type, but they are on Mikados. I am not sure if the pacific's had any is all. > I'll have to check later when I get home. > > Sean > > > "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario > Andretti! > > > > > ________________________________ > From: Richard <rh@...> > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tue, July 19, 2011 12:09:02 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Mantua Worm Gear Cover Needed > > > I've got a very old Mantua 4-6-2 (brass drivers) with Zemac rot on the worm gear > cover. Is there anyone on this list that might have a good one they could sell > to me? This one has three screws. I don't think I can get one from Yardbird Dan > as he doesn't answer his emails anymore plus his web site shows out of stock. > Thanks. > Richard Hamann in Vermont >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17043	From: Railroad Modeler	Date: 7/23/2011
Subject: Re: Snagged a Paul Moore kit.

LOL…I see what you mean!   I counted seven pictures of the box, three pictures of the instruction sheet, and two “mixed” pictures, one of which was *almost* just another shot of the instruction sheet, but neither of which allowed a reasonable survey of the contents. At least there is no doubt as to the condition of the box!!   Say, I couldn’t quite make out the printing on the box-end. Would that have helped identify the contents, if it were legible?   Regards,   Ken B     From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mike Bauers Sent: Saturday, July 23, 2011 4:11 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Snagged a Paul Moore kit.     Thanks Ken,   I think this is the eBay item number....   Item #: 360380466228 It's sort of funny to see just what images the seller decided to use.   You can soon see why it's a bit of a mystery.    Mike Bauers Sent from my iPhone

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17044	From: Railroad Modeler	Date: 7/23/2011
Subject: Re: Spam, spam, spam, eggs, spam, and cheese, with spam. WAS: (unkn

There has been a lot of this going around lately. Some nefarious group must have hacked the Yahoo accounts again.   Check the subject lines of all your incoming emails; any email without a Subject should be *immediately* suspected as being one of these messages, even if it is from someone you know!   Note this one: says “Unknown” for the subject.   Chances are all of our Yahoo accounts have been likewise hacked and email is spamming around cyberspace with our name on it.   *SO* if anyone receives any email from me in their inbox, I *always* put the group id in brackets in my subjects and *never* send a clickable link, even if sending offline. If you receive anything else from me, please delete it, unread.   Also, and this is rather important, if you reply to the group about one of these messages, please do not do these “criminals” a favor and promulgate their snare: remove the bogus URL from the original message. It is OK to just highlight it and hit delete, as I have done. Otherwise the snare is still “live” out there, and someone may accidentally trigger it even in the quoted section below your reply.   Regards,   Ken Berry railroadmodeler     From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of prrp5a Sent: Saturday, July 23, 2011 10:32 AM To: kpony7145@...; Pierced_Nipples@yahoogroups.com; kobrien@...; jim927@...; vintageHO@yahoogroups.com; s.boulton@...; submissions@... Subject: [vintageHO] (unknown)   filing for bankruptcy was a real eye opener for me it seemed like my options were starting to become slim there is nothing else like this out there. <url deleted by me> these days I stay on top of my game this is just between us You will love me for this!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17045	From: ipwjr	Date: 7/23/2011
Subject: Re: Need help?

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Brock Lacy" <brock3@...> wrote: > > Hello folks, > I have over thirty Varney locs,some tenders,motors and misc. items that were my grandfathers collection from around the 50's...I think?. I remember him having a huge layout when I was a young fella. What little I do know.. some are brass...some my be cast?... A friend/collector of the family years ago tagged them ...brass 2-8-0,4-6-2,Mikado 2-8-4,etc...I unfortunatley am not a train collector so I am trying to find some hands to put these trains in that would appreciate them more than I would. I've had little luck in locating info on pricing/values.I have a Greenberg's guides that my father bought years ago and some older train books that my granfather had but they lose me so to say? I just want to price them fair and not over price nor give them away....Don't see much on ebay,etc...to compare to??? I am in Montgomery,Al and there are no meets etc. around here that I know of. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. > Brock Lacy; Regardy your post for Varney...I have a small collection of Varney and am looking for a few additions. If you come up with a list of items available, please send me one, with asking prices..I'm mostly interested in the early metal rolling stock and engines.. Thanks...Ike

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17046	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 7/23/2011
Subject: Re: Need help?

Brock, Perhaps if you posted a few good photos of each item in a file on this group site, info and even offers might be forthcoming. All certainly do not need to be posted at the same time. Just send out a message when each bunch is posted. On Sat, Jul 23, 2011 at 4:07 PM, ipwjr <ipwjr@...> wrote:   --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Brock Lacy" <brock3@...> wrote: > > Hello folks, > I have over thirty Varney locs,some tenders,motors and misc. items that were my grandfathers collection from around the 50's...I think?. I remember him having a huge layout when I was a young fella. What little I do know.. some are brass...some my be cast?... A friend/collector of the family years ago tagged them ...brass 2-8-0,4-6-2,Mikado 2-8-4,etc...I unfortunatley am not a train collector so I am trying to find some hands to put these trains in that would appreciate them more than I would. I've had little luck in locating info on pricing/values.I have a Greenberg's guides that my father bought years ago and some older train books that my granfather had but they lose me so to say? I just want to price them fair and not over price nor give them away....Don't see much on ebay,etc...to compare to??? I am in Montgomery,Al and there are no meets etc. around here that I know of. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. > Brock Lacy; Regardy your post for Varney...I have a small collection of Varney and am looking for a few additions. If you come up with a list of items available, please send me one, with asking prices..I'm mostly interested in the early metal rolling stock and engines.. Thanks...Ike -- Regards, Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17047	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 7/23/2011
Subject: Re: Need help?

Not sure what happened to Brock. I am sure many of us have sent several messages requesting more info and photos. I can say I have and I have heard nothing.  Sean Sent from my iPhone On Jul 23, 2011, at 5:04 PM, Walter Bayer II <bayerw2@...> wrote:   Brock, Perhaps if you posted a few good photos of each item in a file on this group site, info and even offers might be forthcoming. All certainly do not need to be posted at the same time. Just send out a message when each bunch is posted. On Sat, Jul 23, 2011 at 4:07 PM, ipwjr <ipwjr@...> wrote:   --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Brock Lacy" <brock3@...> wrote: > > Hello folks, > I have over thirty Varney locs,some tenders,motors and misc. items that were my grandfathers collection from around the 50's...I think?. I remember him having a huge layout when I was a young fella. What little I do know.. some are brass...some my be cast?... A friend/collector of the family years ago tagged them ...brass 2-8-0,4-6-2,Mikado 2-8-4,etc...I unfortunatley am not a train collector so I am trying to find some hands to put these trains in that would appreciate them more than I would. I've had little luck in locating info on pricing/values.I have a Greenberg's guides that my father bought years ago and some older train books that my granfather had but they lose me so to say? I just want to price them fair and not over price nor give them away....Don't see much on ebay,etc...to compare to??? I am in Montgomery,Al and there are no meets etc. around here that I know of. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. > Brock Lacy; Regardy your post for Varney...I have a small collection of Varney and am looking for a few additions. If you come up with a list of items available, please send me one, with asking prices..I'm mostly interested in the early metal rolling stock and engines.. Thanks...Ike -- Regards, Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17048	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 7/23/2011
Subject: Re: Snagged a Paul Moore kit.

I squinted real hard at that label and came to the conclusion that it is a rubber stamping of Paul's company name and address. Well, mysteries are fun at any rate. Whichever Scoot it will be, it will be one of the Hustler-fit 'envelopes' of a body. Best to ya, Mike Bauers Milwaukee, Wi On Jul 23, 2011, at 12:21 PM, Railroad Modeler wrote: > > > > LOL…I see what you mean! > > I counted seven pictures of the box, three pictures of the > instruction sheet, and two “mixed” pictures, one of which was > *almost* just another shot of the instruction sheet, but neither of > which allowed a reasonable survey of the contents. At least there is > no doubt as to the condition of the box!! > > Say, I couldn’t quite make out the printing on the box-end. Would > that have helped identify the contents, if it were legible? > > Regards, > > Ken B > > >> From: Mike Bauers >> >> >> Thanks Ken, >> >> I think this is the eBay item number.... >> >> Item #: >> 360380466228 >> >> It's sort of funny to see just what images the seller decided to use. >> >> You can soon see why it's a bit of a mystery. >> >> Mike Bauers >> Sent from my iPhone

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17049	From: Wally Weart	Date: 7/23/2011
Subject: Paul Moore

Paul Moore and Walthers was all we traction modelers had when I started unless you could afford brass. Suydam cars were $40- $50, lots of cash for someone with a young family. Moore's were easy  to kit-bash and I created several models of specific prototypes.They still look good by today standards and I still enjoy them. I'll post pictures of one. Wally ======= Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. (Email Guard: 7.0.0.26, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.17970) http://www.pctools.com =======

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17050	From: nvrr49	Date: 7/24/2011
Subject: Passenger car roof details

I am working on three Chester passenger cars and want to add appropriate roof and under car details. Unfortunately, I know little about passenger cars, and can't seem to find a good source. Anyone have a good web site or an article they could email to me? Kent in KC nvrr49.blogspot.com

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17051	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 7/24/2011
Subject: Re: Passenger car roof details

A good start would be hoseeker.net and the Walthers diagrams. Walthers instructions for their passenger cars used to look like blueprints, and will show underframe and roof details for the most part. They also had many different body designs, in terms of length and window arrangements, so you can probably find something at least close. Here's a link to get you started: http://hoseeker.net/walthers.html I have a bunch of older Walthers diagrams, but no clue where I put them at this time. -Steve Neubaum From: nvrr49 <nvrr49@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2011 10:52 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Passenger car roof details   I am working on three Chester passenger cars and want to add appropriate roof and under car details. Unfortunately, I know little about passenger cars, and can't seem to find a good source. Anyone have a good web site or an article they could email to me? Kent in KC nvrr49.blogspot.com

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17052	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 7/24/2011
Subject: Chester Pssenger Detail

Attachments : IMG_7245.JPG IMG_7244.JPG IMG_7243.JPG Hi Kent, If you go to www.hoseeker.net click on Literature, click on Chester which will bring up Miscellaneous Trains, go down the bottom to Diagrams and a list containing Chester and 3 papers will come up. You can click on each one to see instruction / drawings These are the same papers I have. I sent pictures of two Chester "Shorties" I built. I saw nothing in the drawings for details either on top of the cars or underneath unless something is written in the plans. You also supply the trucks, couplers & diaphragms. I also have 4 mint 85" cars but will not open to see what they show. In my humble opinion these kits were very plain with only the 2 metal sides with any doors, the ends and wooden roof and floor and I think you supplied any detail you felt proper. Hope this helps. Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 17053	From: tieplatejunction	Date: 7/24/2011
Subject: Mantua 2-6-2, tender pickup wheels arcing....

I recently got a Mantua 2-6-2. It had some siderod bind but that's been tweaked out. After a clean and lube, it runs fine save for one odd detail...the pickup wheels on the tender arc, causing the sideframes to get quite hot. There are no shorts that I can see, but it takes some serious juice to get it to roll. Any thoughts are greatly appreciated...BC

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17054	From: tieplatejunction	Date: 7/24/2011
Subject: ...regarding Mantua 2-6-2, tender pickup wheels arcing....

I failed to note that the arcing happens deep within the axle bearing/truck journals and not where the wheels contact the rail...BC

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17055	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 7/24/2011
Subject: Re: Mantua 2-6-2, tender pickup wheels arcing....

Yes, this is normal for Mantua wheels and wheel sets.  On the 6 wheel tenders you may be able to clean out the axle bearing areas good enough to help this, but not on the regular 4 wheel tender trucks.  The best thing to do is throw them away if you can get some MDC Roundhouse tender wheels.  Sometimes you see them on eBay and some Hobby Shops may have them in stock still.  The have nice pickup wipers and you can solder small wires to these to get a very good direct connection. The problem you are seeing is due to dirt, rust, and oxidation and there is really no good way of cleaning these out.  You can try some WD-40 followed by some alcohol followed by some Atlas Conducta Lube.  But, I think you will be very lucky to get past this.  If you REALLY want to keep these trucks, you might be able to solder .015 or so Phosphor Bronze wire to the truck frame and form the wire to a shape that lightly wipes on the inside edge of the wheel.  This should eliminate the high resistance path through the wheel bearing area. Good luck and regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: tieplatejunction@... Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2011 16:41:56 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Mantua 2-6-2, tender pickup wheels arcing....   I recently got a Mantua 2-6-2. It had some siderod bind but that's been tweaked out. After a clean and lube, it runs fine save for one odd detail...the pickup wheels on the tender arc, causing the sideframes to get quite hot. There are no shorts that I can see, but it takes some serious juice to get it to roll. Any thoughts are greatly appreciated...BC

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17056	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 7/24/2011
Subject: Re: Passenger car roof details

Kent in KC, I believe the Walthers diagrams are all for heavyweight cars and the Chester cars are all lightweight, corrugated sided. I suggest you get hold of 2 books that I found very useful from Carstens Publications: Passenger Cars, Vol. 2 Streamline Cars, and Vol. 3 Solariums - Sleepers - Inspection Cars. Find a car similar to your kit's sides and go to it. If you can't find or don't want to get the books, and you want vintage instructions, maybe someone could scan and send you the Varney ClearSides instruction sheet. I can't find it on HO Seeker. If it isn't there, whoever can help Kent could also send a copy to HO Seeker. My ClearSides cars and instructions arenot currently in a handy place. On Sun, Jul 24, 2011 at 11:52 AM, nvrr49 <nvrr49@...> wrote:   I am working on three Chester passenger cars and want to add appropriate roof and under car details. Unfortunately, I know little about passenger cars, and can't seem to find a good source. Anyone have a good web site or an article they could email to me? Kent in KC nvrr49.blogspot.com -- Regards, Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17057	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 7/24/2011
Subject: Re: Passenger car roof details

Kent, Should have mentioned Blue Line and American Beauty kits. They are on HO Seeker On Sun, Jul 24, 2011 at 11:52 AM, nvrr49 <nvrr49@...> wrote:   I am working on three Chester passenger cars and want to add appropriate roof and under car details. Unfortunately, I know little about passenger cars, and can't seem to find a good source. Anyone have a good web site or an article they could email to me? Kent in KC nvrr49.blogspot.com -- Regards, Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17058	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 7/24/2011
Subject: Re: Chester Pssenger Detail [3 Attachments]

Yes, definitely a DIY kits. On Sun, Jul 24, 2011 at 1:03 PM, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote:   [Attachment(s) from Jim Heckard included below] Hi Kent, If you go to www.hoseeker.net click on Literature, click on Chester which will bring up Miscellaneous Trains, go down the bottom to Diagrams and a list containing Chester and 3 papers will come up. You can click on each one to see instruction / drawings These are the same papers I have. I sent pictures of two Chester "Shorties" I built. I saw nothing in the drawings for details either on top of the cars or underneath unless something is written in the plans. You also supply the trucks, couplers & diaphragms. I also have 4 mint 85" cars but will not open to see what they show. In my humble opinion these kits were very plain with only the 2 metal sides with any doors, the ends and wooden roof and floor and I think you supplied any detail you felt proper. Hope this helps. Jim H -- Regards, Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17059	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 7/24/2011
Subject: Re: Passenger car roof details

Kent,           If you intend to add your own detail might I suggest you check out   Kasiner or Herkimer / OK Streamliners  roof and under body details.  All produced the same passenger cars.    Kasiner was first and sold out to Herkimer.   Herkimer /  OK Streamliners produced by same family at different times by  different generations  . They are extruded shorty and full size streamlined fluted cars much like Chester and if you need cast metal  roof detail  contact OK Streamliners / owner Ted Brebeck, PO Box 355, Mohawk - New York 13407. I think they are still in business.            Under body detail you can use wooden dowels and wooden blocks just as a lot of vintage companies did.                                                                   Jim H On 7/24/2011 1:57 PM, Walter Bayer II wrote:   Kent, Should have mentioned Blue Line and American Beauty kits. They are on HO Seeker On Sun, Jul 24, 2011 at 11:52 AM, nvrr49 <nvrr49@...> wrote:   I am working on three Chester passenger cars and want to add appropriate roof and under car details. Unfortunately, I know little about passenger cars, and can't seem to find a good source. Anyone have a good web site or an article they could email to me? Kent in KC nvrr49.blogspot.com -- Regards, Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17060	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 7/24/2011
Subject: Re: Passenger car roof details

For some reason I was thinking Chester cars were heavyweights. I have only heard of the name, and don't own any Chester cars myself. Perhaps I am thinking of another company. I was thinking they were foil-sided heavyweights. Oh well. -Steve Neubaum From: Walter Bayer II <bayerw2@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2011 12:53 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Passenger car roof details    Kent in KC, I believe the Walthers diagrams are all for heavyweight cars and the Chester cars are all lightweight, corrugated sided. I suggest you get hold of 2 books that I found very useful from Carstens Publications: Passenger Cars, Vol. 2 Streamline Cars, and Vol. 3 Solariums - Sleepers - Inspection Cars. Find a car similar to your kit's sides and go to it. If you can't find or don't want to get the books, and you want vintage instructions, maybe someone could scan and send you the Varney ClearSides instruction sheet. I can't find it on HO Seeker. If it isn't there, whoever can help Kent could also send a copy to HO Seeker. My ClearSides cars and instructions arenot currently in a handy place. On Sun, Jul 24, 2011 at 11:52 AM, nvrr49 <nvrr49@...> wrote:   I am working on three Chester passenger cars and want to add appropriate roof and under car details. Unfortunately, I know little about passenger cars, and can't seem to find a good source. Anyone have a good web site or an article they could email to me? Kent in KC nvrr49.blogspot.com -- Regards, Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17061	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 7/24/2011
Subject: Re: Passenger car roof details

Kent, Jim is entirely correct. And the OK car ends may be useful, if the old sponge pads Chester supplied are dried out, or if you don't want full-width diaphragms. The wood blocks and dowels work well on a skirted car like the Chesters. Not much really shows. On Sun, Jul 24, 2011 at 3:10 PM, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote:   Kent,           If you intend to add your own detail might I suggest you check out   Kasiner or Herkimer / OK Streamliners  roof and under body details.  All produced the same passenger cars.    Kasiner was first and sold out to Herkimer.   Herkimer /  OK Streamliners produced by same family at different times by  different generations  . They are extruded shorty and full size streamlined fluted cars much like Chester and if you need cast metal  roof detail  contact OK Streamliners / owner Ted Brebeck, PO Box 355, Mohawk - New York 13407. I think they are still in business.            Under body detail you can use wooden dowels and wooden blocks just as a lot of vintage companies did.                                                                   Jim H On 7/24/2011 1:57 PM, Walter Bayer II wrote:   Kent, Should have mentioned Blue Line and American Beauty kits. They are on HO Seeker On Sun, Jul 24, 2011 at 11:52 AM, nvrr49 <nvrr49@...> wrote:   I am working on three Chester passenger cars and want to add appropriate roof and under car details. Unfortunately, I know little about passenger cars, and can't seem to find a good source. Anyone have a good web site or an article they could email to me? Kent in KC nvrr49.blogspot.com -- Regards, Walter -- Regards, Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17062	From: Gary Woodard	Date: 7/24/2011
Subject: Re: Mantua 2-6-2, tender pickup wheels arcing....

Hi BC,   You also mentioned in another email that the arcing is somewhere up into the truck, the bosses where the axles rest in the sideframes might be wallered out a little, or need cleaning, if its on top of the bolster, then where the tender trucks make contact with the tender bottom is probably in need of cleaning..   Gary W       Click HERE http://www.eeinternational.org/pages/page.asp?page_id=31469 to answer life's two most important questions! From: tieplatejunction <tieplatejunction@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2011 12:41 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Mantua 2-6-2, tender pickup wheels arcing....   I recently got a Mantua 2-6-2. It had some siderod bind but that's been tweaked out. After a clean and lube, it runs fine save for one odd detail...the pickup wheels on the tender arc, causing the sideframes to get quite hot. There are no shorts that I can see, but it takes some serious juice to get it to roll. Any thoughts are greatly appreciated...BC

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17063	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 7/24/2011
Subject: Re: Passenger car roof details

Kent,   I just looked at my Chester Roomette kit, the American Beauty and Blue Line kit instructions will help you place the under body and roof details.  The ends will be an issue for sure.  IHC did sell a nice plastic diaphragm and there are other ones by American Limited.   Please post some photos when you are done.    Take care,   Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Walter Bayer II Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2011 1:58 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Passenger car roof details     Kent , Should have mentioned Blue Line and American Beauty kits. They are on HO Seeker On Sun, Jul 24, 2011 at 11:52 AM, nvrr49 <nvrr49@...> wrote: I am working on three Chester passenger cars and want to add appropriate roof and under car details. Unfortunately, I know little about passenger cars, and can't seem to find a good source. Anyone have a good web site or an article they could email to me? Kent in KC nvrr49.blogspot.com -- Regards, Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17064	From: Robert Colliflower	Date: 7/25/2011
Subject: Re: Mantua 2-6-2, tender pickup wheels arcing....

Thanks for all the help guys, I thought I had it licked, then it came back.  I'll be going through my parts bin to find another set of tender trucks to see how that goes.  Blessings, BC

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17065	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 7/25/2011
Subject: Re: Mantua 2-6-2, tender pickup wheels arcing....

Hi, Not sure what this subject was about--must have missed something along the line somewhere. Anyway, BC, if you have tender trucks arcing and you need to use those specific trucks, I'll be happy to repair/adjust them gratis if you pay shipping for both the tender and trucks both ways to me. I have many years of experience working with metal trucks and wheels (and lots of other metal loco problems) that people have scratched their heads over. I'm sure many other folks in this group have also, but I am ending my latest round of HO projects and have time before starting the next. Don't be shy. Let me know at luvprr@....    Art W   In a message dated 7/25/2011 7:39:34 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, tieplatejunction@... writes: Thanks for all the help guys, I thought I had it licked, then it came back.  I'll be going through my parts bin to find another set of tender trucks to see how that goes.  Blessings, BC

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17066	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 7/25/2011
Subject: Re: Mantua 2-6-2, tender pickup wheels arcing....

Hi Robert, I just picked up on this. Not sure if this was suggested, but here is what I do. I use a wire wheel on my dremel. After cleaning the entire contact surface of the wheel, I then let the wheel spin freely being pushed by the friction between the wheel and the brush with the RPMs of the dremel turned all the way up- all the while applying as much pressure as I can against the wheel. Basically pushing the tip of the axle against the side-frame. I do it to all four wheels of each truck. This causes the wheel axle tips to rub against the sideframes wearing smooth a cleaner contact surface. I have done this quite often and it works every time.   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: Robert Colliflower <tieplatejunction@...> To: "vintageHO@yahoogroups.com" <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, July 25, 2011 7:39 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Mantua 2-6-2, tender pickup wheels arcing....   Thanks for all the help guys, I thought I had it licked, then it came back.  I'll be going through my parts bin to find another set of tender trucks to see how that goes.  Blessings, BC

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17067	From: Nelson	Date: 7/25/2011
Subject: Re: Chester Pssenger Detail

Interesting... the company wasn't far from the old DL&W branch in Chester, NJ. Both the DL&W and CNJ had branches running into this little town, and like this small company both are now long gone. Do you know the timeframe these were produced? Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > > Hi Kent, > > If you go to www.hoseeker.net click on Literature, click on > Chester which will bring up Miscellaneous Trains, go down the bottom to > Diagrams and a list containing Chester and 3 papers will come up. You > can click on each one to see instruction / drawings > > These are the same papers I have. I sent pictures of two Chester > "Shorties" I built. I saw nothing in the drawings for details either on > top of the cars or underneath unless something is written in the plans. > You also supply the trucks, couplers & diaphragms. I also have 4 mint > 85" cars but will not open to see what they show. In my humble opinion > these kits were very plain with only the 2 metal sides with any doors, > the ends and wooden roof and floor and I think you supplied any detail > you felt proper. > > Hope this helps. > > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17068	From: erieberk	Date: 7/25/2011
Subject: Re: Chester Passenger Detail

"Both are now long gone." Not quite so! While the CNJ and the DL&W no longer exists, the Morristown & Erie Railway has taken over both the old CNJ High Bridge Branch and the old DL&W Chester Branch. The ex-CNJ branch has been restored only as far as Flanders, NJ -- a few towns north of Chester, NJ. However from reports I've read, as of May 11th this year, the 4-mile ex-DL&W Chester Branch has been restored down to Chester NJ. We'll never see the early model manufacturer come back though. Chester Industrial Arts Company was producing their models in the early 1950's. Ma Webster's (Model Railroad Equipment Co.) 1953 catalog carried them, although the earlier 1950 edition didn't. Ray F. W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Nelson" <greenbrier614@...> wrote: > > Interesting... the company wasn't far from the old DL&W branch in Chester, NJ. Both the DL&W and CNJ had branches running into this little town, and like this small company both are now long gone. > > Do you know the timeframe these were produced? > > Nelson > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Kent, > > > > If you go to www.hoseeker.net click on Literature, click on > > Chester which will bring up Miscellaneous Trains, go down the bottom to > > Diagrams and a list containing Chester and 3 papers will come up. You > > can click on each one to see instruction / drawings > > > > These are the same papers I have. I sent pictures of two Chester > > "Shorties" I built. I saw nothing in the drawings for details either on > > top of the cars or underneath unless something is written in the plans. > > You also supply the trucks, couplers & diaphragms. I also have 4 mint > > 85" cars but will not open to see what they show. In my humble opinion > > these kits were very plain with only the 2 metal sides with any doors, > > the ends and wooden roof and floor and I think you supplied any detail > > you felt proper. > > > > Hope this helps. > > > > Jim H > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17069	From: erieberk	Date: 7/25/2011
Subject: Re: Chester Pssenger Detail

Hi Jim, Haven't accessed Larry's HOseekers for Chester Industrial Arts Co. info, since you mention that the site contains literature for the shorty cars -- and we're trying to establish if the 85' cars showed more detail to be included by the modeler. Having already opened one of my 85' car kit a while ago to answer some question here, I can report that the instructions show no detail to be included either on the roof or the undercarriage. These kits do include full width foam rubber diaphrams though, but I'd imagine that depending on how they were stored over the years, that some of these diaphrams would be rather stiff. Fortunately mine are still somewhat flexible, at least in the kit I opened, but this remains to be seen in the rest of my sealed kits. About the only detail item(s) mentioned in the instructions are the grab irons, which is stated that they're not included but that they can be added. I'll send you a copy when I get a chance, which you can forward to Larry if you'd like. So, yes, the modeler supplied any details he thought was proper to complete these kits to the extent he preferred. For the other readers here, unlike a number of other early H0 model manufacturers (Rail Chief, Sampson and Central Lines) which produce both smooth-side and corrugated-side streamline passenger cars, Chester produced only corrugated-side cars. Ray F Wetzel --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > > Hi Kent, > > If you go to www.hoseeker.net click on Literature, click on > Chester which will bring up Miscellaneous Trains, go down the bottom to > Diagrams and a list containing Chester and 3 papers will come up. You > can click on each one to see instruction / drawings > > These are the same papers I have. I sent pictures of two Chester > "Shorties" I built. I saw nothing in the drawings for details either on > top of the cars or underneath unless something is written in the plans. > You also supply the trucks, couplers & diaphragms. I also have 4 mint > 85" cars but will not open to see what they show. In my humble opinion > these kits were very plain with only the 2 metal sides with any doors, > the ends and wooden roof and floor and I think you supplied any detail > you felt proper. > > Hope this helps. > > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17070	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 7/25/2011
Subject: Re: Chester Passenger Detail

Hi Mr. Ray,       Nice to hear from you. I guess you survived the heat. I didn't want to open a mint 85" Chester passenger car but glad you did.  Something I didn't check when in hoseeker was if the plan was for the shorty, full size or actually for both. I have to go back and look. I was only looking to see if it showed roof or under body detail.    As for the full foam diaphragms with the Chester cars I didn't use mine. I used the Herkimer/ OK Streamliner black foam diaphragms that although are a  single full width piece they have areas pre cut that you can pull out for a better effect when you look at the end when  nothing attached to the car. To me makes for a nicer look.     I brought up Kasiner / Herkimer / OK Streamliners since I believe you can still buy all the cast metal roof detail parts separate that were used over many years on their cars.                                                                                       Jim H   On 7/25/2011 11:33 AM, erieberk wrote:   Hi Jim, Haven't accessed Larry's HOseekers for Chester Industrial Arts Co. info, since you mention that the site contains literature for the shorty cars -- and we're trying to establish if the 85' cars showed more detail to be included by the modeler. Having already opened one of my 85' car kit a while ago to answer some question here, I can report that the instructions show no detail to be included either on the roof or the undercarriage. These kits do include full width foam rubber diaphrams though, but I'd imagine that depending on how they were stored over the years, that some of these diaphrams would be rather stiff. Fortunately mine are still somewhat flexible, at least in the kit I opened, but this remains to be seen in the rest of my sealed kits. About the only detail item(s) mentioned in the instructions are the grab irons, which is stated that they're not included but that they can be added. I'll send you a copy when I get a chance, which you can forward to Larry if you'd like. So, yes, the modeler supplied any details he thought was proper to complete these kits to the extent he preferred. For the other readers here, unlike a number of other early H0 model manufacturers (Rail Chief, Sampson and Central Lines) which produce both smooth-side and corrugated-side streamline passenger cars, Chester produced only corrugated-side cars. Ray F Wetzel --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > > Hi Kent, > > If you go to www.hoseeker.net click on Literature, click on > Chester which will bring up Miscellaneous Trains, go down the bottom to > Diagrams and a list containing Chester and 3 papers will come up. You > can click on each one to see instruction / drawings > > These are the same papers I have. I sent pictures of two Chester > "Shorties" I built. I saw nothing in the drawings for details either on > top of the cars or underneath unless something is written in the plans. > You also supply the trucks, couplers & diaphragms. I also have 4 mint > 85" cars but will not open to see what they show. In my humble opinion > these kits were very plain with only the 2 metal sides with any doors, > the ends and wooden roof and floor and I think you supplied any detail > you felt proper. > > Hope this helps. > > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17071	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 7/25/2011
Subject: Re: Chester Passenger Detail

Looks like they are still going strong. See, "http://www.okengines.com/news.shtml". Prices are a bit higher nowadays. On Mon, Jul 25, 2011 at 12:54 PM, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote:   Hi Mr. Ray,       Nice to hear from you. I guess you survived the heat. I didn't want to open a mint 85" Chester passenger car but glad you did.  Something I didn't check when in hoseeker was if the plan was for the shorty, full size or actually for both. I have to go back and look. I was only looking to see if it showed roof or under body detail.    As for the full foam diaphragms with the Chester cars I didn't use mine. I used the Herkimer/ OK Streamliner black foam diaphragms that although are a  single full width piece they have areas pre cut that you can pull out for a better effect when you look at the end when  nothing attached to the car. To me makes for a nicer look.     I brought up Kasiner / Herkimer / OK Streamliners since I believe you can still buy all the cast metal roof detail parts separate that were used over many years on their cars.                                                                                       Jim H   On 7/25/2011 11:33 AM, erieberk wrote:   Hi Jim, Haven't accessed Larry's HOseekers for Chester Industrial Arts Co. info, since you mention that the site contains literature for the shorty cars -- and we're trying to establish if the 85' cars showed more detail to be included by the modeler. Having already opened one of my 85' car kit a while ago to answer some question here, I can report that the instructions show no detail to be included either on the roof or the undercarriage. These kits do include full width foam rubber diaphrams though, but I'd imagine that depending on how they were stored over the years, that some of these diaphrams would be rather stiff. Fortunately mine are still somewhat flexible, at least in the kit I opened, but this remains to be seen in the rest of my sealed kits. About the only detail item(s) mentioned in the instructions are the grab irons, which is stated that they're not included but that they can be added. I'll send you a copy when I get a chance, which you can forward to Larry if you'd like. So, yes, the modeler supplied any details he thought was proper to complete these kits to the extent he preferred. For the other readers here, unlike a number of other early H0 model manufacturers (Rail Chief, Sampson and Central Lines) which produce both smooth-side and corrugated-side streamline passenger cars, Chester produced only corrugated-side cars. Ray F Wetzel --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > > Hi Kent, > > If you go to www.hoseeker.net click on Literature, click on > Chester which will bring up Miscellaneous Trains, go down the bottom to > Diagrams and a list containing Chester and 3 papers will come up. You > can click on each one to see instruction / drawings > > These are the same papers I have. I sent pictures of two Chester > "Shorties" I built. I saw nothing in the drawings for details either on > top of the cars or underneath unless something is written in the plans. > You also supply the trucks, couplers & diaphragms. I also have 4 mint > 85" cars but will not open to see what they show. In my humble opinion > these kits were very plain with only the 2 metal sides with any doors, > the ends and wooden roof and floor and I think you supplied any detail > you felt proper. > > Hope this helps. > > Jim H > -- Regards, Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17072	From: Nelson	Date: 7/25/2011
Subject: Re: Chester Passenger Detail

I see what you mean about the restoration project, but it's just a short section at the northeastern end of the DL&W branch that's been rehabilitated, well north of Chester. The DL&W was torn out of Chester in the 30's, and much of the ROW there is now the Black River hiking trail. No rail service has returned to Chester or ever will. It's too rural; the only reason both railroads went there at all was for the long-depleted iron ore (in fact I wonder if the company that made these cars was a cottage industry run out of someone's home). The northeastern end of the High Bridge branch was resurrected as well so the M&E could use it as an industrial spur to Flanders, but the majority of that branch is now the Columbia rail trail. http://www.njskylands.com/odhikerail.htm Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "erieberk" <erieberk@...> wrote: > > "Both are now long gone." Not quite so! While the CNJ and the DL&W no longer exists, the Morristown & Erie Railway has taken over both the old CNJ High Bridge Branch and the old DL&W Chester Branch. The ex-CNJ branch has been restored only as far as Flanders, NJ -- a few towns north of Chester, NJ. However from reports I've read, as of May 11th this year, the 4-mile ex-DL&W Chester Branch has been restored down to Chester NJ. We'll never see the early model manufacturer come back though. > > Chester Industrial Arts Company was producing their models in the early 1950's. Ma Webster's (Model Railroad Equipment Co.) 1953 catalog carried them, although the earlier 1950 edition didn't. > > Ray F. W.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17073	From: Donald R. Staton	Date: 7/25/2011
Subject: Re: Mantua 2-6-2, tender pickup wheels arcing....

Arcing and heat are caused by poor contact between adjoining parts that are needed for conductivity.  All contact surfaces need to be cleaned and polished and any flash removed.  Railzip liquid may also help.  Sean's wire wheel in a Dremel also usually works unless the adjoining pieces do not contact well.  The contact of the truck frame with the tender base is often the culprit. Also check to make sure the insulated wheels are all on the same side and all pickup wheels are on the opposite side from the insulated wheels...  Make sure you do not have an axle installed the opposite to it's mate in the same truck frame.  Make sure the tender is insulated from the loco with an insulated drawbar.  Don Staton in VA. ----------------------------- On 7/24/2011 12:41 PM, tieplatejunction wrote:   I recently got a Mantua 2-6-2. It had some siderod bind but that's been tweaked out. After a clean and lube, it runs fine save for one odd detail...the pickup wheels on the tender arc, causing the sideframes to get quite hot. There are no shorts that I can see, but it takes some serious juice to get it to roll. Any thoughts are greatly appreciated...BC

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17074	From: Donald R. Staton	Date: 7/25/2011
Subject: Re: ...regarding Mantua 2-6-2, tender pickup wheels arcing....

Dirty journals...  Use Sean's method of polishing the wheels and journals. Don Staton in VA. ------------------- On 7/24/2011 12:44 PM, tieplatejunction wrote:   I failed to note that the arcing happens deep within the axle bearing/truck journals and not where the wheels contact the rail...BC

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17075	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 7/25/2011
Subject: Paul Moore kit is here!

Attachments : paul moore IMP REF m7w.jpg IMG_7308.JPG Yes, the Paul Moore kit arrived today. It turns out there was no plan in the kit and the only original paperwork is the instruction sheet that covers both Scoots and the F-& conversion kits. I gently worked my way through the contents and found the original car sides. It's not a Scoot, it's one of the slightly longer F-7 conversions. By a very happy coincidence it's the one that first caught my eye back in my first MR issues in late 1968. It's a M-7 Doodlebug or Gas Electric. One that might have an express section. But it certainly has no passenger section. I'll do a photo spread on the two Moore kits later. For now, here is a snap of the car side and a capture of the M-7 from one of Paul's catalog sheets. And now I have stuff to quantify allowing me to tightly nail down critical dimensions of the Paul Moore catalog thumbnails. In keeping with the spirit of the original design, it would make an excellent model on a FA or FB chassis with it's early Alco trucks. http://exotic.railfan.net/EDL%20Resources/alco_fa2_schematic.jpg Best to ya, Mike Bauers Milwaukee, Wi

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 17076	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 7/25/2011
Subject: Re: Paul Moore kit is here!

Sounds like you need to buy some of my Lionel FA's...... However, if you can live with Blomberg's, a Hi-F drive Athearn would be more "vintage"! > Yes, the Paul Moore kit arrived today. > > It turns out there was no plan in the kit and the only original > paperwork is the instruction sheet that covers both Scoots and the F-& > conversion kits. > > I gently worked my way through the contents and found the original car > sides. It's not a Scoot, it's one of the slightly longer F-7 > conversions. > > By a very happy coincidence it's the one that first caught my eye back > in my first MR issues in late 1968. It's a M-7 Doodlebug or Gas > Electric. One that might have an express section. But it certainly has > no passenger section. > > I'll do a photo spread on the two Moore kits later. For now, here is a > snap of the car side and a capture of the M-7 from one of Paul's > catalog sheets. > > And now I have stuff to quantify allowing me to tightly nail down > critical dimensions of the Paul Moore catalog thumbnails. > > In keeping with the spirit of the original design, it would make an > excellent model on a FA or FB chassis with it's early Alco trucks. > > http://exotic.railfan.net/EDL%20Resources/alco_fa2_schematic.jpg > > Best to ya, > Mike Bauers > Milwaukee, Wi >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17077	From: Jay	Date: 7/26/2011
Subject: Re: Paul Moore kit is here!

Mike, that is a cool kit to have and likely even more scarce that the shorter Hustler based "Scoots." Jay W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote: > > Yes, the Paul Moore kit arrived today. > > It turns out there was no plan in the kit and the only original > paperwork is the instruction sheet that covers both Scoots and the F-& > conversion kits. > > I gently worked my way through the contents and found the original car > sides. It's not a Scoot, it's one of the slightly longer F-7 > conversions. > > By a very happy coincidence it's the one that first caught my eye back > in my first MR issues in late 1968. It's a M-7 Doodlebug or Gas > Electric. One that might have an express section. But it certainly has > no passenger section. > > I'll do a photo spread on the two Moore kits later. For now, here is a > snap of the car side and a capture of the M-7 from one of Paul's > catalog sheets. > > And now I have stuff to quantify allowing me to tightly nail down > critical dimensions of the Paul Moore catalog thumbnails. > > In keeping with the spirit of the original design, it would make an > excellent model on a FA or FB chassis with it's early Alco trucks. > > http://exotic.railfan.net/EDL%20Resources/alco_fa2_schematic.jpg > > Best to ya, > Mike Bauers > Milwaukee, Wi >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17078	From: Jay	Date: 7/26/2011
Subject: Bill Schopp & RMC Staff's words on the Athearn RBD Pacific

Hi Jim H. (and All), Just found the following comments that Bill Schopp and the "RMC Staff" (often Hal Carstens chimed in as well) made about the Athearn effort to manufacture the Pacific with Rubber Band Drive in the March, 1964 issue of Railroad Model Craftsman, Trouble Shooting Clinic, page 62. R. Rager asked, "Can a rubber band drive be put in a steam locomotive as well as in a diesel?" Answer: "Efforts by one manufacturer to develop a rubber band drive from the electric motor of a steam locomotive were not successful and the debut of the engine was delayed for many, many months until it could be revised to a worm gear drive. So I'll say no, and hope that somebody will write in and furnish proof that he has done it successfully. " end of quote. I remember reading in an earlier RMC, by several years, that reported that Athearn showed a RBD Pacific at a NYC Trade only show and that Carstens saw and wrote a bit about it, but no details as to which version of the RBD it had. Jay W.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17079	From: Michael Bauers	Date: 7/26/2011
Subject: Re: Paul Moore kit is here!

I feel I was very lucky with this fin d. It seems the kit is also from a transition era. I have duplicate blank 0.020 styrene side stock cut to fit in it. While those might have been added by the fellow that bought the kit, there are also a number of finished doors in styrene with different style windows. They are very expertly cut. It appears I have Walthers ends in the kit. One round end window, one square end window, and one CNW Doodlebug front end. Three ends, one of the ends has had a styrene door added to it, the square window end. One car side has suffered some poor handling and is bent and delaminated across a couple of the openings. I suspect these car sides are made from a different material than the earlier kit I have. That early one seems to have very uniform material that won't delaminate if flexed. That seems to be an exact match with Strathmore card, this later kit is something different. I'll get pictures together later this week. Mike Bauers. On Jul 26, 2011, at 8:45 AM, Jay wrote: > Mike, that is a cool kit to have and likely even more scarce that the shorter Hustler based "Scoots." Jay W. > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote: >> >> Yes, the Paul Moore kit arrived today. >> >> It turns out there was no plan in the kit and the only original >> paperwork is the instruction sheet that covers both Scoots and the F-& >> conversion kits. >> >> I gently worked my way through the contents and found the original car >> sides. It's not a Scoot, it's one of the slightly longer F-7 >> conversions. >> >> By a very happy coincidence it's the one that first caught my eye back >> in my first MR issues in late 1968. It's a M-7 Doodlebug or Gas >> Electric. One that might have an express section. But it certainly has >> no passenger section............

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17080	From: Nelson	Date: 7/27/2011
Subject: Re: Bill Schopp & RMC Staff's words on the Athearn RBD Pacific

Interesting stuff. If RMC saw one at a trade show, it was obviously been a pre-production model that may or may not have worked. It's a good thing they went with a gear drive. Did Jim H ever try rubber banding one of his Pacifics? Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Jay" <the_plainsman@...> wrote: > > Hi Jim H. (and All), > > Just found the following comments that Bill Schopp and the "RMC Staff" (often Hal Carstens chimed in as well) made about the Athearn effort to manufacture the Pacific with Rubber Band Drive in the March, 1964 issue of Railroad Model Craftsman, Trouble Shooting Clinic, page 62. > > R. Rager asked, "Can a rubber band drive be put in a steam locomotive as well as in a diesel?" > > Answer: "Efforts by one manufacturer to develop a rubber band drive from the electric motor of a steam locomotive were not successful and the debut of the engine was delayed for many, many months until it could be revised to a worm gear drive. So I'll say no, and hope that somebody will write in and furnish proof that he has done it successfully. " end of quote. > > I remember reading in an earlier RMC, by several years, that reported that Athearn showed a RBD Pacific at a NYC Trade only show and that Carstens saw and wrote a bit about it, but no details as to which version of the RBD it had. > > Jay W. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17081	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 7/27/2011
Subject: Re: Bill Schopp & RMC Staff's words on the Athearn RBD Pacific

Hi Nelson,             A while ago I was searching for info to prove or disprove if there was ever a completed running Athearn RBD Pacific. Lots of stories came out from people who said they saw them, even some who claimed they had one or a friend had one. I'm sure Athearn had a prototype but it did not run right. All were to be destroyed but who knows what walked out the front door.    As for me I started fooling around with an Athearn Pacific to see what I could come up with. It was the first version actually sold to the public and had the plastic drivers but had been changed to the gear drive. I first took an Athearn's Hi-F drive motor with the skinny metal drive shafts that stuck out each end. I mounted the  motor in the cab that the flexible pivot point for the back drive was over where the engine / tender pivot point would be so it could turn naturally. I then had to cut some holes in the tender floor for space to allow the rubber bands to be put around the tender wheels.  As you might remember the tender wheels on the Athearn Pacific engine had the larger shafts on them that were used for RBD drive on their  other engines ( I think it was so Athearn  didn't have to make sets of wheels for the tender ) Getting this part to run was easy and I could push the engine like a dummy just using the tender.    Then came the hard part since the plastic drivers on the Athearn Pacific engine were a much larger diameter then the tender wheels. I tried some things but couldn't get them to run at the same speed  (Plastic drivers on the engine and smaller wheels on the tender ) So I tried cheating here by using the Lionel ideal of driving the 2-4-2 O ring drive Columbia engine, that many people claim was designed for Lionel by Irv Athearn's people. It was a poor runner when sold by Lionel and I think was a big reason Athearn ended his RBD Pacific project.  However I tried to I use this Lionel set up because even though a shaft was driven by an O ring it used gearing to drive the drivers. I was playing around with this when I had some medical problems ( TIA ) and I put everything in a box till another time. Other projects took precedence over it since. Maybe some day I will pull it out and try to go further.                                               Jim H On 7/27/2011 2:03 PM, Nelson wrote:   Interesting stuff. If RMC saw one at a trade show, it was obviously been a pre-production model that may or may not have worked. It's a good thing they went with a gear drive. Did Jim H ever try rubber banding one of his Pacifics? Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Jay" <the_plainsman@...> wrote: > > Hi Jim H. (and All), > > Just found the following comments that Bill Schopp and the "RMC Staff" (often Hal Carstens chimed in as well) made about the Athearn effort to manufacture the Pacific with Rubber Band Drive in the March, 1964 issue of Railroad Model Craftsman, Trouble Shooting Clinic, page 62. > > R. Rager asked, "Can a rubber band drive be put in a steam locomotive as well as in a diesel?" > > Answer: "Efforts by one manufacturer to develop a rubber band drive from the electric motor of a steam locomotive were not successful and the debut of the engine was delayed for many, many months until it could be revised to a worm gear drive. So I'll say no, and hope that somebody will write in and furnish proof that he has done it successfully. " end of quote. > > I remember reading in an earlier RMC, by several years, that reported that Athearn showed a RBD Pacific at a NYC Trade only show and that Carstens saw and wrote a bit about it, but no details as to which version of the RBD it had. > > Jay W. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17082	From: ablecynic	Date: 7/28/2011
Subject: Re: Bill Schopp & RMC Staff's words on the Athearn RBD Pacific

Jim, About 25 years ago, at the 1st Narrow Gauge convention in Philadephia, I was privileged to listen to a discussion between Cliff Grandt, his sons, and some other older members of the hobby discussing the market for plastic locomotives. Grandt Line had only recently brought out a couple of different Porter locomotives in On3 and was not completely happy with them but they were very good for the time. The discussion turned to the Athearn locos and why they failed, and as a part of that, the topic of the rumored rubber-band drive Pacific came up. Cliff apparently had discussed this at some point with Irv Athearn (they knew each other through the Hobby Association.) None of them ever saw the mechanism, or heard of a working model. Most of what is know is from advertisements and press releases associated with the Hobby Shows from the time. Based on that discussion, and your own work and research, it is very unlikely that there was ever a complete working model of a rubber-band drive Pacific. The parts were all there for a static model, but from what was said, the problem was that the original design by Irv Athearn was to have the motor drive the center driver with a single rubber band and the other drivers would move using the coupling rods between the drivers. The problem was the amount of friction in the connecting and main rods and valve gear. The second version was to have a longer shaft with three rubber bands -- one to each driver -- to distribute the power better. That too didn't work well enough and the decision was made to go with a gear drive. All of this work was done in a matter of just two or three months because Irv wanted to market these as soon as possible to counter the market growth of the Rivarossi locos. Cliff Grandt said that he based his own work on his Porters on some of his discussions with Athearn. Based on that conversation, from people who knew Irv Athearn, it is likely that there never was anything more than several different mockups of a drive system, and a couple of static models made for shows. Jim, I would say that based on the little I know, your assessment is most likely correct. Matt Coleman --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > Hi Nelson, > > A while ago I was searching for info to prove or disprove > if there was ever a completed running Athearn RBD Pacific. Lots of > stories came out from people who said they saw them, even some who > claimed they had one or a friend had one. I'm sure Athearn had a > prototype but it did not run right. All were to be destroyed but who > knows what walked out the front door. > > As for me I started fooling around with an Athearn Pacific to see what I could come up with. It was the first version actually sold to the public and had the plastic drivers but had been changed to the gear drive. I first took an Athearn's Hi-F drive motor with the skinny metal drive shafts that stuck out each end. I mounted the motor in the cab that the flexible pivot point for the back drive was over where the engine / tender pivot point would be so it could turn naturally. I then had to cut some holes in the tender floor for space to allow the rubber bands to be put around the tender wheels. As you might remember the tender wheels on the Athearn Pacific engine had the larger shafts on them that were used for RBD drive on their other engines ( I think it was so Athearn didn't have to make sets of wheels for the tender ) > Getting this part to run was easy and I could push the engine like a > dummy just using the tender. > > Then came the hard part since the plastic drivers on the Athearn Pacific engine were a much larger diameter then the tender wheels. I tried some things but couldn't get them to run at the same speed > (Plastic drivers on the engine and smaller wheels on the tender ) So I tried cheating here by using the Lionel ideal of driving the 2-4-2 O-ring drive Columbia engine, that many people claim was designed for Lionel by Irv Athearn's people. It was a poor runner when sold by Lionel and I think was a big reason Athearn ended his RBD Pacific project. > However I tried to I use this Lionel set up because even though a shaft was driven by an O ring it used gearing to drive the drivers. I was playing around with this when I had some medical problems ( TIA ) and I put everything in a box till another time. Other projects took precedence over it since. Maybe some day I will pull it out and try to > go further. > > Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17083	From: Jay	Date: 7/28/2011
Subject: Re: Bill Schopp & RMC Staff's words on the Athearn RBD Pacific

Jim, Matt, and All; Jim, your mention of Lionel using RBD in a steam locomotive jogged my memory - have you taken the boiler shell off of your newest Lionel addition to your collection, the #0605 0-4-0T? That little Lionel "Docksider" type loco also has a rubber belt drive system. Matt, your comments on the conversation you heard years ago was facinating. I went back to Hal Carstens original coverage of the NYC show where he reported that Irv Athearn had one of the RBD Pacifics on display and upon rereading his comments, none mention that he actually saw it operating. These paragraphs appear in a report of the 1959 New York Toy Fair in the May 1959 issue of Railroad Model Craftsman, a 5 page illustrated feature article. The Athearn paragraphs, plus a photo of Irv himself holding a piece of track with a Pacific on it (tender lettered with large numerals "1392") appears on page 21. It says, quote, "Irv Athearn had good reason to smile when we wandered into his room. Sitting out in bold view was his spanking new Boston & Maine 4-6-2 which should start shipping to dealers in May, if not earlier. Detailing is outstanding. Builder plates and other small detail stand up crisp and sharp." "Despite the plastic boiler, the engine packs plenty of weight, having a cast metal piece running the legnth of the boiler. The Wilson motor is used, same as in the Athearn Hi-F diesels. And the drive is also a modification of the Hi-F drive. Rubber bands transfer power from the drive shaft to round gearless "Gears" which transfer the power to the drivers by friction." "The new Athearn Pacific will pull a string of 15 freight cars without difficulty. Athearn will offer the locomotive in kit form at $9.95 It'll also be available RTR (ready to run) at $14,95 probably with optional Eastern and Western road names." "Design is basically a B&M P-4 such as seen in RMC for July 1956 (or page 44 of the new Penn Craft Steam locomotive Plan Manual) but less the shroud covering the sand domes. Its a beautifully designed prototype and the model measures up to the real one." End of quote. Note nothing above says that Carstens actually saw it operate or haul 15 cars, only reporting what Athearn & Co. stated, inculding the wildly optimistic delivery date, which Athearn was sometimes prone to make and got him into hot water a decade earlier when "Overnight Distributing" was created. Also note that Athearn had his display in a room, not on the main show floor, which one might speculate would also make it more difficult for anyone to challenge him and say, "Lets see it run," on one of the other's display layouts on the main floor, too. The only words I might want to explore further is Mr. Grant's contention that Athearn was in a rush "to counter the growth of Rivarossi" which was still years into the future, circa 1964-1965, as Athearn was woking on his Pacific at least six years earlier. However, on further thought it he may have well been aware of Bernie Paul's plans and his agreement between AHM and Alexandro Rossi(Rivariossi) and the Polk's, which may have been made around that Athearn Pacific development time. Will have to check the date of that agreement again sometime - I think it is in the Nat Polk interview, avaiable one line. Jay W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "ablecynic" <mattjcoleman@...> wrote: > > Jim, > > About 25 years ago, at the 1st Narrow Gauge convention in Philadephia, I was privileged to listen to a discussion between Cliff Grandt, his sons, and some other older members of the hobby discussing the market for plastic locomotives. Grandt Line had only recently brought out a couple of different Porter locomotives in On3 and was not completely happy with them but they were very good for the time. The discussion turned to the Athearn locos and why they failed, and as a part of that, the topic of the rumored rubber-band drive Pacific came up. Cliff apparently had discussed this at some point with Irv Athearn (they knew each other through the Hobby Association.) None of them ever saw the mechanism, or heard of a working model. Most of what is know is from advertisements and press releases associated with the Hobby Shows from the time. > > Based on that discussion, and your own work and research, it is very unlikely that there was ever a complete working model of a rubber-band drive Pacific. The parts were all there for a static model, but from what was said, the problem was that the original design by Irv Athearn was to have the motor drive the center driver with a single rubber band and the other drivers would move using the coupling rods between the drivers. The problem was the amount of friction in the connecting and main rods and valve gear. The second version was to have a longer shaft with three rubber bands -- one to each driver -- to distribute the power better. That too didn't work well enough and the decision was made to go with a gear drive. All of this work was done in a matter of just two or three months because Irv wanted to market these as soon as possible to counter the market growth of the Rivarossi locos. Cliff Grandt said that he based his own work on his Porters on some of his discussions with Athearn. Based on that conversation, from people who knew Irv Athearn, it is likely that there never was anything more than several different mockups of a drive system, and a couple of static models made for shows. > > Jim, I would say that based on the little I know, your assessment is most likely correct. > > Matt Coleman > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@> wrote: > > > > > > Hi Nelson, > > > > A while ago I was searching for info to prove or disprove > > if there was ever a completed running Athearn RBD Pacific. Lots of > > stories came out from people who said they saw them, even some who > > claimed they had one or a friend had one. I'm sure Athearn had a > > prototype but it did not run right. All were to be destroyed but who > > knows what walked out the front door. > > > > As for me I started fooling around with an Athearn Pacific to see what I could come up with. It was the first version actually sold to the public and had the plastic drivers but had been changed to the gear drive. I first took an Athearn's Hi-F drive motor with the skinny metal drive shafts that stuck out each end. I mounted the motor in the cab that the flexible pivot point for the back drive was over where the engine / tender pivot point would be so it could turn naturally. I then had to cut some holes in the tender floor for space to allow the rubber bands to be put around the tender wheels. As you might remember the tender wheels on the Athearn Pacific engine had the larger shafts on them that were used for RBD drive on their other engines ( I think it was so Athearn didn't have to make sets of wheels for the tender ) > > Getting this part to run was easy and I could push the engine like a > > dummy just using the tender. > > > > Then came the hard part since the plastic drivers on the Athearn Pacific engine were a much larger diameter then the tender wheels. I tried some things but couldn't get them to run at the same speed > > (Plastic drivers on the engine and smaller wheels on the tender ) So I tried cheating here by using the Lionel ideal of driving the 2-4-2 O-ring drive Columbia engine, that many people claim was designed for Lionel by Irv Athearn's people. It was a poor runner when sold by Lionel and I think was a big reason Athearn ended his RBD Pacific project. > > However I tried to I use this Lionel set up because even though a shaft was driven by an O ring it used gearing to drive the drivers. I was playing around with this when I had some medical problems ( TIA ) and I put everything in a box till another time. Other projects took > precedence over it since. Maybe some day I will pull it out and try to > > go further. > > > > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17084	From: Jay	Date: 7/28/2011
Subject: Lionel's Own Belt Drive Patent and Drawings

Hi Jim and All, I had an idea and began looking to see if Athearn had any patents for their oen belt drive to see if it would help us in our search for information on the RBD Pacific. Instead I just found a Moses Zion patent assigned to Lionel for their own belt drive system which is facinating in its own respect. http://www.google.com/patents?id=JEtpAAAAEBAJ&zoom=4&pg=PA1#v=onepage&q&f=false or http://tinyurl.com/4x27enj The second interesting find was that I now know what drive trucks were used by that talented modeler in constructing EMC Model 60 Boxcab Locomotive I recently reported! There are a few more leads on locomotive drive systems and I will see if there are any patents with an Athearn connection. Jay W.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17085	From: Jay	Date: 7/28/2011
Subject: R. M. Smith's RBD Patent & Drawings (Licensed by Athearn?)

Hi Jim and All, Here is the link to the R. M. Smith RBD Patent and Drawing that I believe was licensed by Athearn and is also referred to in the Greenburg Guide Athearn by Dallas Malerich III (sp?. While the drawing shows the drive as applied to a generic "B" unit, it is cleverly worded as to be able to be used by function in any type of locomotive - Smith had a very good attorney! Unfortunately, no references to any specifics that may have related to a steam locomotive application. Here is the link: http://www.google.com/patents?id=R2pTAAAAEBAJ&zoom=4&pg=PA1#v=onepage&q&f=false or if long link does not work. http://tinyurl.com/3gna8re Jay W.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17086	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 7/28/2011
Subject: Re: Bill Schopp & RMC Staff's words on the Athearn RBD Pacific

Jay, Matt, All,     I know I'm going to get a headache or make a mistake. Before I go further I want to say that this is the opinion I have formed based on a number or replies and statements made by others. We had previous discussion on this subject and from everything stated nothing seemed conclusive. While I would be more inclined to believe people who made their name in HO they didn't always tell the whole truth.    Jay ,    You are right that the Lionel 0-4-0T #0605 has a pulley / O ring from  the motor to the geared drivers. The 2-4-2 Lionel #0642 & #0643 have the same set up for the drivers also.    Before I go further I want to copy something Mr. Jim Lenahan has in his Locomotive Lexicon  Volume II   Page 39 where he is describing the Lionel 2-4-2 Columbia type engine    " Plastic, Athearn type motor and drive system using a rubber band coupling ( I think O ring a better description ) to wheels ( Drivers ) instead of gears. Poor performance of this model no doubt influenced Athearn to switch to gear drive before releasing his 4-6-2 model "    I can not verify this statement or others concerning this Lionel 2-4-2  where many in the know are of the opinion that this engine was an Athearn design made for Lionel. However sure fits as it was a poor running engine too.    It was this drive shaft with the pulley and the gears on the end to geared drivers I created that was my last attempt to drive two sets of drivers on the Athearn Pacific while still using an O ring after I failed at attempts to drive the drivers by friction alone like a Hi-F drive. I had done a lot of butchering along the way and even disconnected how I drove the tender by RBD since I could not get those smaller tender wheels and the larger engine drivers to rotate at same speed.   I just through everything in a box for another time maybe.                           Jim H On 7/28/2011 9:09 AM, Jay wrote:   Jim, Matt, and All; Jim, your mention of Lionel using RBD in a steam locomotive jogged my memory - have you taken the boiler shell off of your newest Lionel addition to your collection, the #0605 0-4-0T? That little Lionel "Docksider" type loco also has a rubber belt drive system. Matt, your comments on the conversation you heard years ago was facinating. I went back to Hal Carstens original coverage of the NYC show where he reported that Irv Athearn had one of the RBD Pacifics on display and upon rereading his comments, none mention that he actually saw it operating. These paragraphs appear in a report of the 1959 New York Toy Fair in the May 1959 issue of Railroad Model Craftsman, a 5 page illustrated feature article. The Athearn paragraphs, plus a photo of Irv himself holding a piece of track with a Pacific on it (tender lettered with large numerals "1392") appears on page 21. It says, quote, "Irv Athearn had good reason to smile when we wandered into his room. Sitting out in bold view was his spanking new Boston & Maine 4-6-2 which should start shipping to dealers in May, if not earlier. Detailing is outstanding. Builder plates and other small detail stand up crisp and sharp." "Despite the plastic boiler, the engine packs plenty of weight, having a cast metal piece running the legnth of the boiler. The Wilson motor is used, same as in the Athearn Hi-F diesels. And the drive is also a modification of the Hi-F drive. Rubber bands transfer power from the drive shaft to round gearless "Gears" which transfer the power to the drivers by friction." "The new Athearn Pacific will pull a string of 15 freight cars without difficulty. Athearn will offer the locomotive in kit form at $9.95 It'll also be available RTR (ready to run) at $14,95 probably with optional Eastern and Western road names." "Design is basically a B&M P-4 such as seen in RMC for July 1956 (or page 44 of the new Penn Craft Steam locomotive Plan Manual) but less the shroud covering the sand domes. Its a beautifully designed prototype and the model measures up to the real one." End of quote. Note nothing above says that Carstens actually saw it operate or haul 15 cars, only reporting what Athearn & Co. stated, inculding the wildly optimistic delivery date, which Athearn was sometimes prone to make and got him into hot water a decade earlier when "Overnight Distributing" was created. Also note that Athearn had his display in a room, not on the main show floor, which one might speculate would also make it more difficult for anyone to challenge him and say, "Lets see it run," on one of the other's display layouts on the main floor, too. The only words I might want to explore further is Mr. Grant's contention that Athearn was in a rush "to counter the growth of Rivarossi" which was still years into the future, circa 1964-1965, as Athearn was woking on his Pacific at least six years earlier. However, on further thought it he may have well been aware of Bernie Paul's plans and his agreement between AHM and Alexandro Rossi(Rivariossi) and the Polk's, which may have been made around that Athearn Pacific development time. Will have to check the date of that agreement again sometime - I think it is in the Nat Polk interview, avaiable one line. Jay W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "ablecynic" <mattjcoleman@...> wrote: > > Jim, > > About 25 years ago, at the 1st Narrow Gauge convention in Philadephia, I was privileged to listen to a discussion between Cliff Grandt, his sons, and some other older members of the hobby discussing the market for plastic locomotives. Grandt Line had only recently brought out a couple of different Porter locomotives in On3 and was not completely happy with them but they were very good for the time. The discussion turned to the Athearn locos and why they failed, and as a part of that, the topic of the rumored rubber-band drive Pacific came up. Cliff apparently had discussed this at some point with Irv Athearn (they knew each other through the Hobby Association.) None of them ever saw the mechanism, or heard of a working model. Most of what is know is from advertisements and press releases associated with the Hobby Shows from the time. > > Based on that discussion, and your own work and research, it is very unlikely that there was ever a complete working model of a rubber-band drive Pacific. The parts were all there for a static model, but from what was said, the problem was that the original design by Irv Athearn was to have the motor drive the center driver with a single rubber band and the other drivers would move using the coupling rods between the drivers. The problem was the amount of friction in the connecting and main rods and valve gear. The second version was to have a longer shaft with three rubber bands -- one to each driver -- to distribute the power better. That too didn't work well enough and the decision was made to go with a gear drive. All of this work was done in a matter of just two or three months because Irv wanted to market these as soon as possible to counter the market growth of the Rivarossi locos. Cliff Grandt said that he based his own work on his Porters on some of his discussions with Athearn. Based on that conversation, from people who knew Irv Athearn, it is likely that there never was anything more than several different mockups of a drive system, and a couple of static models made for shows. > > Jim, I would say that based on the little I know, your assessment is most likely correct. > > Matt Coleman > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@> wrote: > > > > > > Hi Nelson, > > > > A while ago I was searching for info to prove or disprove > > if there was ever a completed running Athearn RBD Pacific. Lots of > > stories came out from people who said they saw them, even some who > > claimed they had one or a friend had one. I'm sure Athearn had a > > prototype but it did not run right. All were to be destroyed but who > > knows what walked out the front door. > > > > As for me I started fooling around with an Athearn Pacific to see what I could come up with. It was the first version actually sold to the public and had the plastic drivers but had been changed to the gear drive. I first took an Athearn's Hi-F drive motor with the skinny metal drive shafts that stuck out each end. I mounted the motor in the cab that the flexible pivot point for the back drive was over where the engine / tender pivot point would be so it could turn naturally. I then had to cut some holes in the tender floor for space to allow the rubber bands to be put around the tender wheels. As you might remember the tender wheels on the Athearn Pacific engine had the larger shafts on them that were used for RBD drive on their other engines ( I think it was so Athearn didn't have to make sets of wheels for the tender ) > > Getting this part to run was easy and I could push the engine like a > > dummy just using the tender. > > > > Then came the hard part since the plastic drivers on the Athearn Pacific engine were a much larger diameter then the tender wheels. I tried some things but couldn't get them to run at the same speed > > (Plastic drivers on the engine and smaller wheels on the tender ) So I tried cheating here by using the Lionel ideal of driving the 2-4-2 O-ring drive Columbia engine, that many people claim was designed for Lionel by Irv Athearn's people. It was a poor runner when sold by Lionel and I think was a big reason Athearn ended his RBD Pacific project. > > However I tried to I use this Lionel set up because even though a shaft was driven by an O ring it used gearing to drive the drivers. I was playing around with this when I had some medical problems ( TIA ) and I put everything in a box till another time. Other projects took > precedence over it since. Maybe some day I will pull it out and try to > > go further. > > > > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17087	From: Jay	Date: 7/28/2011
Subject: Re: Bill Schopp & RMC Staff's words on the Athearn RBD Pacific

Hi Jim, H., I believe your theories are sound and likely are as far as we will ever get on the subject. Maybe someday, someone will find some original information, notes or records kept by a worker or Athearn principal, that will confirm or expand our knowledge of the development of the Pacific, but until then, this is what we have. Interesting how I always learn a bit more from our discussions and the added plus this AM was that patent search when I was able to figure out that the modeler of that EMC Gas Electic Boxcab I recently purchased used Lionel Alco FA drive trucks in his model. That makes it even more special in my mind. I guess if I was more familiar with Lionel HO I would have immediately recognized that fact, but now I know. Have a good day! Jay --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > Jay, Matt, All, > > I know I'm going to get a headache or make a mistake. Before I go > further I want to say that this is the opinion I have formed based on a > number or replies and statements made by others. We had previous > discussion on this subject and from everything stated nothing seemed > conclusive. While I would be more inclined to believe people who made > their name in HO they didn't always tell the whole truth. > > Jay , You are right that the Lionel 0-4-0T #0605 has a pulley / O > ring from the motor to the geared drivers. The 2-4-2 Lionel #0642 & > #0643 have the same set up for the drivers also. > > Before I go further I want to copy something Mr. Jim Lenahan has in > his Locomotive Lexicon Volume II Page 39 where he is describing the > Lionel 2-4-2 Columbia type engine " Plastic, Athearn type motor and > drive system using a rubber band coupling ( I think O ring a better > description ) to wheels ( Drivers ) instead of gears. Poor performance > of this model no doubt influenced Athearn to switch to gear drive before > releasing his 4-6-2 model " > > I can not verify this statement or others concerning this Lionel > 2-4-2 where many in the know are of the opinion that this engine was an > Athearn design made for Lionel. However sure fits as it was a poor > running engine too. > > It was this drive shaft with the pulley and the gears on the end to > geared drivers I created that was my last attempt to drive two sets of > drivers on the Athearn Pacific while still using an O ring after I > failed at attempts to drive the drivers by friction alone like a Hi-F > drive. I had done a lot of butchering along the way and even > disconnected how I drove the tender by RBD since I could not get those > smaller tender wheels and the larger engine drivers to rotate at same > speed. > > I just through everything in a box for another time maybe. > > Jim H > > > > > On 7/28/2011 9:09 AM, Jay wrote: > > > > Jim, Matt, and All; > > > > Jim, your mention of Lionel using RBD in a steam locomotive jogged my > > memory - have you taken the boiler shell off of your newest Lionel > > addition to your collection, the #0605 0-4-0T? That little Lionel > > "Docksider" type loco also has a rubber belt drive system. > > > > Matt, your comments on the conversation you heard years ago was > > facinating. I went back to Hal Carstens original coverage of the NYC > > show where he reported that Irv Athearn had one of the RBD Pacifics on > > display and upon rereading his comments, none mention that he actually > > saw it operating. > > > > These paragraphs appear in a report of the 1959 New York Toy Fair in > > the May 1959 issue of Railroad Model Craftsman, a 5 page illustrated > > feature article. The Athearn paragraphs, plus a photo of Irv himself > > holding a piece of track with a Pacific on it (tender lettered with > > large numerals "1392") appears on page 21. > > > > It says, quote, "Irv Athearn had good reason to smile when we wandered > > into his room. Sitting out in bold view was his spanking new Boston & > > Maine 4-6-2 which should start shipping to dealers in May, if not > > earlier. Detailing is outstanding. Builder plates and other small > > detail stand up crisp and sharp." > > > > "Despite the plastic boiler, the engine packs plenty of weight, having > > a cast metal piece running the legnth of the boiler. The Wilson motor > > is used, same as in the Athearn Hi-F diesels. And the drive is also a > > modification of the Hi-F drive. Rubber bands transfer power from the > > drive shaft to round gearless "Gears" which transfer the power to the > > drivers by friction." > > > > "The new Athearn Pacific will pull a string of 15 freight cars without > > difficulty. Athearn will offer the locomotive in kit form at $9.95 > > It'll also be available RTR (ready to run) at $14,95 probably with > > optional Eastern and Western road names." > > > > "Design is basically a B&M P-4 such as seen in RMC for July 1956 (or > > page 44 of the new Penn Craft Steam locomotive Plan Manual) but less > > the shroud covering the sand domes. Its a beautifully designed > > prototype and the model measures up to the real one." End of quote. > > > > Note nothing above says that Carstens actually saw it operate or haul > > 15 cars, only reporting what Athearn & Co. stated, inculding the > > wildly optimistic delivery date, which Athearn was sometimes prone to > > make and got him into hot water a decade earlier when "Overnight > > Distributing" was created. > > > > Also note that Athearn had his display in a room, not on the main show > > floor, which one might speculate would also make it more difficult for > > anyone to challenge him and say, "Lets see it run," on one of the > > other's display layouts on the main floor, too. > > > > The only words I might want to explore further is Mr. Grant's > > contention that Athearn was in a rush "to counter the growth of > > Rivarossi" which was still years into the future, circa 1964-1965, as > > Athearn was woking on his Pacific at least six years earlier. However, > > on further thought it he may have well been aware of Bernie Paul's > > plans and his agreement between AHM and Alexandro Rossi(Rivariossi) > > and the Polk's, which may have been made around that Athearn Pacific > > development time. > > > > Will have to check the date of that agreement again sometime - I think > > it is in the Nat Polk interview, avaiable one line. > > > > Jay W. > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com>, > > "ablecynic" <mattjcoleman@> wrote: > > > > > > Jim, > > > > > > About 25 years ago, at the 1st Narrow Gauge convention in > > Philadephia, I was privileged to listen to a discussion between Cliff > > Grandt, his sons, and some other older members of the hobby discussing > > the market for plastic locomotives. Grandt Line had only recently > > brought out a couple of different Porter locomotives in On3 and was > > not completely happy with them but they were very good for the time. > > The discussion turned to the Athearn locos and why they failed, and as > > a part of that, the topic of the rumored rubber-band drive Pacific > > came up. Cliff apparently had discussed this at some point with Irv > > Athearn (they knew each other through the Hobby Association.) None of > > them ever saw the mechanism, or heard of a working model. Most of what > > is know is from advertisements and press releases associated with the > > Hobby Shows from the time. > > > > > > Based on that discussion, and your own work and research, it is very > > unlikely that there was ever a complete working model of a rubber-band > > drive Pacific. The parts were all there for a static model, but from > > what was said, the problem was that the original design by Irv Athearn > > was to have the motor drive the center driver with a single rubber > > band and the other drivers would move using the coupling rods between > > the drivers. The problem was the amount of friction in the connecting > > and main rods and valve gear. The second version was to have a longer > > shaft with three rubber bands -- one to each driver -- to distribute > > the power better. That too didn't work well enough and the decision > > was made to go with a gear drive. All of this work was done in a > > matter of just two or three months because Irv wanted to market these > > as soon as possible to counter the market growth of the Rivarossi > > locos. Cliff Grandt said that he based his own work on his Porters on > > some of his discussions with Athearn. Based on that conversation, from > > people who knew Irv Athearn, it is likely that there never was > > anything more than several different mockups of a drive system, and a > > couple of static models made for shows. > > > > > > Jim, I would say that based on the little I know, your assessment is > > most likely correct. > > > > > > Matt Coleman > > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com>, Jim Heckard <jimheck@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Nelson, > > > > > > > > A while ago I was searching for info to prove or disprove > > > > if there was ever a completed running Athearn RBD Pacific. Lots of > > > > stories came out from people who said they saw them, even some who > > > > claimed they had one or a friend had one. I'm sure Athearn had a > > > > prototype but it did not run right. All were to be destroyed but who > > > > knows what walked out the front door. > > > > > > > > As for me I started fooling around with an Athearn Pacific to see > > what I could come up with. It was the first version actually sold to > > the public and had the plastic drivers but had been changed to the > > gear drive. I first took an Athearn's Hi-F drive motor with the skinny > > metal drive shafts that stuck out each end. I mounted the motor in the > > cab that the flexible pivot point for the back drive was over where > > the engine / tender pivot point would be so it could turn naturally. I > > then had to cut some holes in the tender floor for space to allow the > > rubber bands to be put around the tender wheels. As you might remember > > the tender wheels on the Athearn Pacific engine had the larger shafts > > on them that were used for RBD drive on their other engines ( I think > > it was so Athearn didn't have to make sets of wheels for the tender ) > > > > Getting this part to run was easy and I could push the engine like a > > > > dummy just using the tender. > > > > > > > > Then came the hard part since the plastic drivers on the Athearn > > Pacific engine were a much larger diameter then the tender wheels. I > > tried some things but couldn't get them to run at the same speed > > > > (Plastic drivers on the engine and smaller wheels on the tender ) > > So I tried cheating here by using the Lionel ideal of driving the > > 2-4-2 O-ring drive Columbia engine, that many people claim was > > designed for Lionel by Irv Athearn's people. It was a poor runner when > > sold by Lionel and I think was a big reason Athearn ended his RBD > > Pacific project. > > > > However I tried to I use this Lionel set up because even though a > > shaft was driven by an O ring it used gearing to drive the drivers. I > > was playing around with this when I had some medical problems ( TIA ) > > and I put everything in a box till another time. Other projects took > > > precedence over it since. Maybe some day I will pull it out and try to > > > > go further. > > > > > > > > Jim H > > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17088	From: rcjge	Date: 7/28/2011
Subject: Re: Bill Schopp & RMC Staff's words on the Athearn RBD Pacific

Great thread guys! The links to the Patent Apps in particular. Worth studying for repowering notions. Btw, anyone interested in Lionel Ho please contact me off list if you have an interest in their: 4-6-2 Pacific runner really good cosmetic cond FA excellent in Original box CNR Erie Centre cab excellent though I've never run it. No bottom plate of course! Let me know? -Gareth Bradford, Ont. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Jay" <the_plainsman@...> wrote: > > Hi Jim H. (and All), > > Just found the following comments that Bill Schopp and the "RMC Staff" (often Hal Carstens chimed in as well) made about the Athearn effort to manufacture the Pacific with Rubber Band Drive in the March, 1964 issue of Railroad Model Craftsman, Trouble Shooting Clinic, page 62. > > R. Rager asked, "Can a rubber band drive be put in a steam locomotive as well as in a diesel?" > > Answer: "Efforts by one manufacturer to develop a rubber band drive from the electric motor of a steam locomotive were not successful and the debut of the engine was delayed for many, many months until it could be revised to a worm gear drive. So I'll say no, and hope that somebody will write in and furnish proof that he has done it successfully. " end of quote. > > I remember reading in an earlier RMC, by several years, that reported that Athearn showed a RBD Pacific at a NYC Trade only show and that Carstens saw and wrote a bit about it, but no details as to which version of the RBD it had. > > Jay W. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17089	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 7/28/2011
Subject: Re: Lionel's Own Belt Drive Patent and Drawings

----- Original Message ----- From: "Jay" <the_plainsman@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 8:54 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Lionel's Own Belt Drive Patent and Drawings > Hi Jim and All, > > I had an idea and began looking to see if Athearn had any patents for > their oen belt drive to see if it would help us in our search for > information on the RBD Pacific. > > Instead I just found a Moses Zion patent assigned to Lionel for their own > belt drive system which is facinating in its own respect. > > http://www.google.com/patents?id=JEtpAAAAEBAJ&zoom=4&pg=PA1#v=onepage&q&f=false > > or > > http://tinyurl.com/4x27enj > > The second interesting find was that I now know what drive trucks were > used by that talented modeler in constructing EMC Model 60 Boxcab > Locomotive I recently reported! > > There are a few more leads on locomotive drive systems and I will see if > there are any patents with an Athearn connection. > > Jay W. The drawing of the actual drive components themselves are very similar to the drive used in many Japanese import traction models, just substitute a spring belt for the rubber band. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17090	From: Nelson	Date: 7/28/2011
Subject: Re: Bill Schopp & RMC Staff's words on the Athearn RBD Pacific

Jim, I was just trying to imagine having to remove all the drivers and side rods, etc. just to replace the rubber bands that turned to goo every few months. If the intention was to use an O-ring or a sturdier rubber belt, that would make a lot more sense given the difficulty of disassembly and the weakness of the rubber bands. It would have also put the shaft under greater tension, probably to the point of stalling the weak motor. It was a bad idea, and would have been a nightmare for most customers. It's a shame they didn't push further with the P-4, since it was a nice model and the final version had metal drivers and reliable pickup on the loco. It was certainly a nice alternative to Rivarossi's pizza cutters, so you have to wonder why Irv dropped it and any further steam. Too expensive to produce compared to his diesels? Was he unable to compete with AHM's prices for Rivarossi locos? Jay, thanks for that quote about the Wilson motor. That's what Athearn called it? Anyone know who Wilson was? Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > Jay, Matt, All, > > I know I'm going to get a headache or make a mistake. Before I go > further I want to say that this is the opinion I have formed based on a > number or replies and statements made by others. We had previous > discussion on this subject and from everything stated nothing seemed > conclusive. While I would be more inclined to believe people who made > their name in HO they didn't always tell the whole truth. > > Jay , You are right that the Lionel 0-4-0T #0605 has a pulley / O > ring from the motor to the geared drivers. The 2-4-2 Lionel #0642 & > #0643 have the same set up for the drivers also. > > Before I go further I want to copy something Mr. Jim Lenahan has in > his Locomotive Lexicon Volume II Page 39 where he is describing the > Lionel 2-4-2 Columbia type engine " Plastic, Athearn type motor and > drive system using a rubber band coupling ( I think O ring a better > description ) to wheels ( Drivers ) instead of gears. Poor performance > of this model no doubt influenced Athearn to switch to gear drive before > releasing his 4-6-2 model " > > I can not verify this statement or others concerning this Lionel > 2-4-2 where many in the know are of the opinion that this engine was an > Athearn design made for Lionel. However sure fits as it was a poor > running engine too. > > It was this drive shaft with the pulley and the gears on the end to > geared drivers I created that was my last attempt to drive two sets of > drivers on the Athearn Pacific while still using an O ring after I > failed at attempts to drive the drivers by friction alone like a Hi-F > drive. I had done a lot of butchering along the way and even > disconnected how I drove the tender by RBD since I could not get those > smaller tender wheels and the larger engine drivers to rotate at same > speed. > > I just through everything in a box for another time maybe. > > Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17091	From: Jay	Date: 7/29/2011
Subject: Re: Bill Schopp & RMC Staff's words on the Athearn RBD Pacific

Hi Nelson, and All, Besides reading his patent and seeing that R. M. Wilson was from California, the only information on him I know of comes from a 1983 quote from Irv Athearn printed in Dallas Mallerich II's Athearn Guide, page 35, which says in part, " A young fellow by the name of Robert Smith came in with the creation. He had a patent on it. We built one and it ran real well..." Athearn went on to cite the problem with band life, but also said that the Hi-F drive still had advantages in pulling power over his geared units (4 bands = 4 clutches). If Wilson was in his twenties then, there is an outside chance he still might be around today, that might be worth a search for someone to do! According to what I have read, what consumed Athearn's time and development money during the very early 1960's time was designing slot cars, along with Varney, Model Die Casting/Roundhouse, Ulrich, Penn Line, etc. Athearn was a little more cautious and pulled the plug on beginning actual production. Around 1964-1965, Athearn published ads saying they had neglected developing new model railroad products and would soon have many new items, which is when he followed up the short lived GP-30 with the GP-35, SD-45, SDP-40, DD-35, SW"1500" and the RP-25 wheeled new freight cars. By then, it is my impression that he knew where his lines strength and manufacturing capability was and that, combined with the costly revisions to the poor selling, though vastly improved Pacific may have been as much of a reason for killing it and steam as was the literal onslaught of AHM/Rivarossi steam engines in 1965. Better to use production capability on popular, modern locomotives that would fly off of the shelves. Athearn was a high production firm. (Mantua also had a very strong line of steam then, too, The Pacifics and Mikados plus 4 switchers but only one modern diesel, their GP-20 (as their C-430 came later.) Athearn was proved right as AHM/Rivarossi or any other never could compete with him on a comprehensive line of modern EMD diesels, with only the Rivarossi E-8's, plus the U25C and unusual Krauss Maffi as their only stand out diesels introduced during the 1960's. (C-liner was an early 1950's Rivarossi project.) Those are my thoughts, anyway, I enjoy reading others opinions as well! Jay W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Nelson" <greenbrier614@...> wrote: > > Jim, I was just trying to imagine having to remove all the drivers and side rods, etc. just to replace the rubber bands that turned to goo every few months. If the intention was to use an O-ring or a sturdier rubber belt, that would make a lot more sense given the difficulty of disassembly and the weakness of the rubber bands. It would have also put the shaft under greater tension, probably to the point of stalling the weak motor. It was a bad idea, and would have been a nightmare for most customers. > > It's a shame they didn't push further with the P-4, since it was a nice model and the final version had metal drivers and reliable pickup on the loco. It was certainly a nice alternative to Rivarossi's pizza cutters, so you have to wonder why Irv dropped it and any further steam. Too expensive to produce compared to his diesels? Was he unable to compete with AHM's prices for Rivarossi locos? > > Jay, thanks for that quote about the Wilson motor. That's what Athearn called it? Anyone know who Wilson was? > > Nelson > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@> wrote: > > > > > > Jay, Matt, All, > > > > I know I'm going to get a headache or make a mistake. Before I go > > further I want to say that this is the opinion I have formed based on a > > number or replies and statements made by others. We had previous > > discussion on this subject and from everything stated nothing seemed > > conclusive. While I would be more inclined to believe people who made > > their name in HO they didn't always tell the whole truth. > > > > Jay , You are right that the Lionel 0-4-0T #0605 has a pulley / O > > ring from the motor to the geared drivers. The 2-4-2 Lionel #0642 & > > #0643 have the same set up for the drivers also. > > > > Before I go further I want to copy something Mr. Jim Lenahan has in > > his Locomotive Lexicon Volume II Page 39 where he is describing the > > Lionel 2-4-2 Columbia type engine " Plastic, Athearn type motor and > > drive system using a rubber band coupling ( I think O ring a better > > description ) to wheels ( Drivers ) instead of gears. Poor performance > > of this model no doubt influenced Athearn to switch to gear drive before > > releasing his 4-6-2 model " > > > > I can not verify this statement or others concerning this Lionel > > 2-4-2 where many in the know are of the opinion that this engine was an > > Athearn design made for Lionel. However sure fits as it was a poor > > running engine too. > > > > It was this drive shaft with the pulley and the gears on the end to > > geared drivers I created that was my last attempt to drive two sets of > > drivers on the Athearn Pacific while still using an O ring after I > > failed at attempts to drive the drivers by friction alone like a Hi-F > > drive. I had done a lot of butchering along the way and even > > disconnected how I drove the tender by RBD since I could not get those > > smaller tender wheels and the larger engine drivers to rotate at same > > speed. > > > > I just through everything in a box for another time maybe. > > > > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17092	From: rcjge	Date: 7/29/2011
Subject: Stubbby parts?

Hey Guys: Does anyone have any Lindsay Stubbu parts? I have the complete chassis w/motor and a nice shell. What I lack is the platforms, rear steps and underhood weight. Anyone? Thanks, Gareth

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17093	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 7/29/2011
Subject: Re: Bill Schopp & RMC Staff's words on the Athearn RBD Pacific

To avoid the deterioration of the rubber bands, and even the O rings (They last longer but they do dry out when exposed to the air.) use spring belts (stainless, if possible), as Don mentioned, or even sprocket and chain. They should work and work well. If an O ring,or a spring, maybe 2 would be better, between the 3 axles, so that the tension needn't be very tight. Also, to reduce friction, use ball bearings on all the various shafts. In the end, this drive, if optimized, will be more expensive to make than traditional steam loco drives. On Thu, Jul 28, 2011 at 11:38 PM, Nelson <greenbrier614@...> wrote:   Jim, I was just trying to imagine having to remove all the drivers and side rods, etc. just to replace the rubber bands that turned to goo every few months. If the intention was to use an O-ring or a sturdier rubber belt, that would make a lot more sense given the difficulty of disassembly and the weakness of the rubber bands. It would have also put the shaft under greater tension, probably to the point of stalling the weak motor. It was a bad idea, and would have been a nightmare for most customers. It's a shame they didn't push further with the P-4, since it was a nice model and the final version had metal drivers and reliable pickup on the loco. It was certainly a nice alternative to Rivarossi's pizza cutters, so you have to wonder why Irv dropped it and any further steam. Too expensive to produce compared to his diesels? Was he unable to compete with AHM's prices for Rivarossi locos? Jay, thanks for that quote about the Wilson motor. That's what Athearn called it? Anyone know who Wilson was? Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > Jay, Matt, All, > > I know I'm going to get a headache or make a mistake. Before I go > further I want to say that this is the opinion I have formed based on a > number or replies and statements made by others. We had previous > discussion on this subject and from everything stated nothing seemed > conclusive. While I would be more inclined to believe people who made > their name in HO they didn't always tell the whole truth. > > Jay , You are right that the Lionel 0-4-0T #0605 has a pulley / O > ring from the motor to the geared drivers. The 2-4-2 Lionel #0642 & > #0643 have the same set up for the drivers also. > > Before I go further I want to copy something Mr. Jim Lenahan has in > his Locomotive Lexicon Volume II Page 39 where he is describing the > Lionel 2-4-2 Columbia type engine " Plastic, Athearn type motor and > drive system using a rubber band coupling ( I think O ring a better > description ) to wheels ( Drivers ) instead of gears. Poor performance > of this model no doubt influenced Athearn to switch to gear drive before > releasing his 4-6-2 model " > > I can not verify this statement or others concerning this Lionel > 2-4-2 where many in the know are of the opinion that this engine was an > Athearn design made for Lionel. However sure fits as it was a poor > running engine too. > > It was this drive shaft with the pulley and the gears on the end to > geared drivers I created that was my last attempt to drive two sets of > drivers on the Athearn Pacific while still using an O ring after I > failed at attempts to drive the drivers by friction alone like a Hi-F > drive. I had done a lot of butchering along the way and even > disconnected how I drove the tender by RBD since I could not get those > smaller tender wheels and the larger engine drivers to rotate at same > speed. > > I just through everything in a box for another time maybe. > > Jim H -- Regards, Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17094	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 7/29/2011
Subject: Re: Bill Schopp & RMC Staff's words on the Athearn RBD Pacific

Walter, Don,     Totally agree with your thoughts about Heavy O ring, Spring belt and sprocket and chain . While these would work better it defeats what I was trying to do and that is to get an old  Athearn Pacific engine running using the Hi-F Rubber Band Drive set up. I was trying to prove to myself if it was possible.    I then started to modify it to see if I could get it running like the Lionel 2-4-2 set up. Lots of fun but no success                                                        Jim H On 7/29/2011 9:58 AM, Walter Bayer II wrote:   To avoid the deterioration of the rubber bands, and even the O rings (They last longer but they do dry out when exposed to the air.) use spring belts (stainless, if possible), as Don mentioned, or even sprocket and chain. They should work and work well. If an O ring,or a spring, maybe 2 would be better, between the 3 axles, so that the tension needn't be very tight. Also, to reduce friction, use ball bearings on all the various shafts. In the end, this drive, if optimized, will be more expensive to make than traditional steam loco drives. On Thu, Jul 28, 2011 at 11:38 PM, Nelson <greenbrier614@...> wrote:   Jim, I was just trying to imagine having to remove all the drivers and side rods, etc. just to replace the rubber bands that turned to goo every few months. If the intention was to use an O-ring or a sturdier rubber belt, that would make a lot more sense given the difficulty of disassembly and the weakness of the rubber bands. It would have also put the shaft under greater tension, probably to the point of stalling the weak motor. It was a bad idea, and would have been a nightmare for most customers. It's a shame they didn't push further with the P-4, since it was a nice model and the final version had metal drivers and reliable pickup on the loco. It was certainly a nice alternative to Rivarossi's pizza cutters, so you have to wonder why Irv dropped it and any further steam. Too expensive to produce compared to his diesels? Was he unable to compete with AHM's prices for Rivarossi locos? Jay, thanks for that quote about the Wilson motor. That's what Athearn called it? Anyone know who Wilson was? Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > Jay, Matt, All, > > I know I'm going to get a headache or make a mistake. Before I go > further I want to say that this is the opinion I have formed based on a > number or replies and statements made by others. We had previous > discussion on this subject and from everything stated nothing seemed > conclusive. While I would be more inclined to believe people who made > their name in HO they didn't always tell the whole truth. > > Jay , You are right that the Lionel 0-4-0T #0605 has a pulley / O > ring from the motor to the geared drivers. The 2-4-2 Lionel #0642 & > #0643 have the same set up for the drivers also. > > Before I go further I want to copy something Mr. Jim Lenahan has in > his Locomotive Lexicon Volume II Page 39 where he is describing the > Lionel 2-4-2 Columbia type engine " Plastic, Athearn type motor and > drive system using a rubber band coupling ( I think O ring a better > description ) to wheels ( Drivers ) instead of gears. Poor performance > of this model no doubt influenced Athearn to switch to gear drive before > releasing his 4-6-2 model " > > I can not verify this statement or others concerning this Lionel > 2-4-2 where many in the know are of the opinion that this engine was an > Athearn design made for Lionel. However sure fits as it was a poor > running engine too. > > It was this drive shaft with the pulley and the gears on the end to > geared drivers I created that was my last attempt to drive two sets of > drivers on the Athearn Pacific while still using an O ring after I > failed at attempts to drive the drivers by friction alone like a Hi-F > drive. I had done a lot of butchering along the way and even > disconnected how I drove the tender by RBD since I could not get those > smaller tender wheels and the larger engine drivers to rotate at same > speed. > > I just through everything in a box for another time maybe. > > Jim H -- Regards, Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17095	From: ablecynic	Date: 7/29/2011
Subject: Re: Bill Schopp & RMC Staff's words on the Athearn RBD Pacific

Jay, Your post is equally fascinating to me. I have never read that information and it sounds like there must have been some kind of demonstration model to be able to comment on it pulling a string of cars. Thanks for posting! Matt Coleman --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Jay" <the_plainsman@...> wrote: > > Jim, Matt, and All; > > Jim, your mention of Lionel using RBD in a steam locomotive jogged my memory - have you taken the boiler shell off of your newest Lionel addition to your collection, the #0605 0-4-0T? That little Lionel "Docksider" type loco also has a rubber belt drive system. > > Matt, your comments on the conversation you heard years ago was facinating. I went back to Hal Carstens original coverage of the NYC show where he reported that Irv Athearn had one of the RBD Pacifics on display and upon rereading his comments, none mention that he actually saw it operating. > > These paragraphs appear in a report of the 1959 New York Toy Fair in the May 1959 issue of Railroad Model Craftsman, a 5 page illustrated feature article. The Athearn paragraphs, plus a photo of Irv himself holding a piece of track with a Pacific on it (tender lettered with large numerals "1392") appears on page 21. > > It says, quote, "Irv Athearn had good reason to smile when we wandered into his room. Sitting out in bold view was his spanking new Boston & Maine 4-6-2 which should start shipping to dealers in May, if not earlier. Detailing is outstanding. Builder plates and other small detail stand up crisp and sharp." > > "Despite the plastic boiler, the engine packs plenty of weight, having a cast metal piece running the legnth of the boiler. The Wilson motor is used, same as in the Athearn Hi-F diesels. And the drive is also a modification of the Hi-F drive. Rubber bands transfer power from the drive shaft to round gearless "Gears" which transfer the power to the drivers by friction." > > "The new Athearn Pacific will pull a string of 15 freight cars without difficulty. Athearn will offer the locomotive in kit form at $9.95 It'll also be available RTR (ready to run) at $14,95 probably with optional Eastern and Western road names." > > "Design is basically a B&M P-4 such as seen in RMC for July 1956 (or page 44 of the new Penn Craft Steam locomotive Plan Manual) but less the shroud covering the sand domes. Its a beautifully designed prototype and the model measures up to the real one." End of quote. > > Note nothing above says that Carstens actually saw it operate or haul 15 cars, only reporting what Athearn & Co. stated, inculding the wildly optimistic delivery date, which Athearn was sometimes prone to make and got him into hot water a decade earlier when "Overnight Distributing" was created. > > Also note that Athearn had his display in a room, not on the main show floor, which one might speculate would also make it more difficult for anyone to challenge him and say, "Lets see it run," on one of the other's display layouts on the main floor, too. > > The only words I might want to explore further is Mr. Grant's contention that Athearn was in a rush "to counter the growth of Rivarossi" which was still years into the future, circa 1964-1965, as Athearn was woking on his Pacific at least six years earlier. However, on further thought it he may have well been aware of Bernie Paul's plans and his agreement between AHM and Alexandro Rossi(Rivariossi) and the Polk's, which may have been made around that Athearn Pacific development time. > > Will have to check the date of that agreement again sometime - I think it is in the Nat Polk interview, avaiable one line. > > Jay W. > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17096	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 7/29/2011
Subject: Re: Bill Schopp & RMC Staff's words on the Athearn RBD Pacific

Good try Mr Goldberg! :) -Gareth On 29 July 2011 11:05, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote:   Walter, Don,     Totally agree with your thoughts about Heavy O ring, Spring belt and sprocket and chain . While these would work better it defeats what I was trying to do and that is to get an old  Athearn Pacific engine running using the Hi-F Rubber Band Drive set up. I was trying to prove to myself if it was possible.    I then started to modify it to see if I could get it running like the Lionel 2-4-2 set up. Lots of fun but no success                                                        Jim H On 7/29/2011 9:58 AM, Walter Bayer II wrote:   To avoid the deterioration of the rubber bands, and even the O rings (They last longer but they do dry out when exposed to the air.) use spring belts (stainless, if possible), as Don mentioned, or even sprocket and chain. They should work and work well. If an O ring,or a spring, maybe 2 would be better, between the 3 axles, so that the tension needn't be very tight. Also, to reduce friction, use ball bearings on all the various shafts. In the end, this drive, if optimized, will be more expensive to make than traditional steam loco drives. On Thu, Jul 28, 2011 at 11:38 PM, Nelson <greenbrier614@...> wrote:   Jim, I was just trying to imagine having to remove all the drivers and side rods, etc. just to replace the rubber bands that turned to goo every few months. If the intention was to use an O-ring or a sturdier rubber belt, that would make a lot more sense given the difficulty of disassembly and the weakness of the rubber bands. It would have also put the shaft under greater tension, probably to the point of stalling the weak motor. It was a bad idea, and would have been a nightmare for most customers. It's a shame they didn't push further with the P-4, since it was a nice model and the final version had metal drivers and reliable pickup on the loco. It was certainly a nice alternative to Rivarossi's pizza cutters, so you have to wonder why Irv dropped it and any further steam. Too expensive to produce compared to his diesels? Was he unable to compete with AHM's prices for Rivarossi locos? Jay, thanks for that quote about the Wilson motor. That's what Athearn called it? Anyone know who Wilson was? Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > Jay, Matt, All, > > I know I'm going to get a headache or make a mistake. Before I go > further I want to say that this is the opinion I have formed based on a > number or replies and statements made by others. We had previous > discussion on this subject and from everything stated nothing seemed > conclusive. While I would be more inclined to believe people who made > their name in HO they didn't always tell the whole truth. > > Jay , You are right that the Lionel 0-4-0T #0605 has a pulley / O > ring from the motor to the geared drivers. The 2-4-2 Lionel #0642 & > #0643 have the same set up for the drivers also. > > Before I go further I want to copy something Mr. Jim Lenahan has in > his Locomotive Lexicon Volume II Page 39 where he is describing the > Lionel 2-4-2 Columbia type engine " Plastic, Athearn type motor and > drive system using a rubber band coupling ( I think O ring a better > description ) to wheels ( Drivers ) instead of gears. Poor performance > of this model no doubt influenced Athearn to switch to gear drive before > releasing his 4-6-2 model " > > I can not verify this statement or others concerning this Lionel > 2-4-2 where many in the know are of the opinion that this engine was an > Athearn design made for Lionel. However sure fits as it was a poor > running engine too. > > It was this drive shaft with the pulley and the gears on the end to > geared drivers I created that was my last attempt to drive two sets of > drivers on the Athearn Pacific while still using an O ring after I > failed at attempts to drive the drivers by friction alone like a Hi-F > drive. I had done a lot of butchering along the way and even > disconnected how I drove the tender by RBD since I could not get those > smaller tender wheels and the larger engine drivers to rotate at same > speed. > > I just through everything in a box for another time maybe. > > Jim H -- Regards, Walter -- "Clear Eyes, Full Heart, Can't Loose!"

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17097	From: Glenn	Date: 7/29/2011
Subject: Re: Bill Schopp & RMC Staff's words on the Athearn RBD Pacific

This is interesting—over on the On3 and O Scale boards, Lee Snover (Leetown models)  is taking out belt drives  in Shays—as Jerry Whitwe used to do with other O Scale locos—particularly Sunset brass--  but then  I understand that Bachmann’s Spectrum steamers use a belt drive--gj   From: J. Gareth Edwards Sent: Friday, July 29, 2011 9:12 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Bill Schopp & RMC Staff's words on the Athearn RBD Pacific   Good try Mr Goldberg! :) -Gareth On 29 July 2011 11:05, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote:   Walter, Don,     Totally agree with your thoughts about Heavy O ring, Spring belt and sprocket and chain . While these would work better it defeats what I was trying to do and that is to get an old  Athearn Pacific engine running using the Hi-F Rubber Band Drive set up. I was trying to prove to myself if it was possible.    I then started to modify it to see if I could get it running like the Lionel 2-4-2 set up. Lots of fun but no success                                                        Jim H On 7/29/2011 9:58 AM, Walter Bayer II wrote:   To avoid the deterioration of the rubber bands, and even the O rings (They last longer but they do dry out when exposed to the air.) use spring belts (stainless, if possible), as Don mentioned, or even sprocket and chain. They should work and work well. If an O ring,or a spring, maybe 2 would be better, between the 3 axles, so that the tension needn't be very tight. Also, to reduce friction, use ball bearings on all the various shafts. In the end, this drive, if optimized, will be more expensive to make than traditional steam loco drives. On Thu, Jul 28, 2011 at 11:38 PM, Nelson <greenbrier614@...> wrote:   Jim, I was just trying to imagine having to remove all the drivers and side rods, etc. just to replace the rubber bands that turned to goo every few months. If the intention was to use an O-ring or a sturdier rubber belt, that would make a lot more sense given the difficulty of disassembly and the weakness of the rubber bands. It would have also put the shaft under greater tension, probably to the point of stalling the weak motor. It was a bad idea, and would have been a nightmare for most customers. It's a shame they didn't push further with the P-4, since it was a nice model and the final version had metal drivers and reliable pickup on the loco. It was certainly a nice alternative to Rivarossi's pizza cutters, so you have to wonder why Irv dropped it and any further steam. Too expensive to produce compared to his diesels? Was he unable to compete with AHM's prices for Rivarossi locos? Jay, thanks for that quote about the Wilson motor. That's what Athearn called it? Anyone know who Wilson was? Nelson --- In mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard mailto:jimheck@... wrote: > > > Jay, Matt, All, > > I know I'm going to get a headache or make a mistake. Before I go > further I want to say that this is the opinion I have formed based on a > number or replies and statements made by others. We had previous > discussion on this subject and from everything stated nothing seemed > conclusive. While I would be more inclined to believe people who made > their name in HO they didn't always tell the whole truth. > > Jay , You are right that the Lionel 0-4-0T #0605 has a pulley / O > ring from the motor to the geared drivers. The 2-4-2 Lionel #0642 & > #0643 have the same set up for the drivers also. > > Before I go further I want to copy something Mr. Jim Lenahan has in > his Locomotive Lexicon Volume II Page 39 where he is describing the > Lionel 2-4-2 Columbia type engine " Plastic, Athearn type motor and > drive system using a rubber band coupling ( I think O ring a better > description ) to wheels ( Drivers ) instead of gears. Poor performance > of this model no doubt influenced Athearn to switch to gear drive before > releasing his 4-6-2 model " > > I can not verify this statement or others concerning this Lionel > 2-4-2 where many in the know are of the opinion that this engine was an > Athearn design made for Lionel. However sure fits as it was a poor > running engine too. > > It was this drive shaft with the pulley and the gears on the end to > geared drivers I created that was my last attempt to drive two sets of > drivers on the Athearn Pacific while still using an O ring after I > failed at attempts to drive the drivers by friction alone like a Hi-F > drive. I had done a lot of butchering along the way and even > disconnected how I drove the tender by RBD since I could not get those > smaller tender wheels and the larger engine drivers to rotate at same > speed. > > I just through everything in a box for another time maybe. > > Jim H -- Regards, Walter -- "Clear Eyes, Full Heart, Can't Loose!"

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17098	From: Nelson	Date: 7/29/2011
Subject: Re: Bill Schopp & RMC Staff's words on the Athearn RBD Pacific

Thanks for helping me to fill in some of the blanks, Jay, and the vagaries of the marketplace. The reliability of Athearn diesels was a revelation when I was kid in the 70's, so I naturally wondered why they never had luck with steam. Back then the Pacific featured on the front and side of their blue boxes just seemed like a cruel tease, lol. That hi-fi motor suffered from a small, weak magnet (it's thickness limited by the screw that held it together), and thin pole pieces that limited the magnetic flux around the armature. If the Pacific had lasted long enough to be powered with their Jet 400 motor, its performance would no doubt have improved. Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Jay" <the_plainsman@...> wrote: > > Hi Nelson, and All, > > Besides reading his patent and seeing that R. M. Wilson was from California, the only information on him I know of comes from a 1983 quote from Irv Athearn printed in Dallas Mallerich II's Athearn Guide, page 35, which says in part, " A young fellow by the name of Robert Smith came in with the creation. He had a patent on it. We built one and it ran real well..." > > Athearn went on to cite the problem with band life, but also said that the Hi-F drive still had advantages in pulling power over his geared units (4 bands = 4 clutches). If Wilson was in his twenties then, there is an outside chance he still might be around today, that might be worth a search for someone to do! > > According to what I have read, what consumed Athearn's time and development money during the very early 1960's time was designing slot cars, along with Varney, Model Die Casting/Roundhouse, Ulrich, Penn Line, etc. Athearn was a little more cautious and pulled the plug on beginning actual production. > > Around 1964-1965, Athearn published ads saying they had neglected developing new model railroad products and would soon have many new items, which is when he followed up the short lived GP-30 with the GP-35, SD-45, SDP-40, DD-35, SW"1500" and the RP-25 wheeled new freight cars. > > By then, it is my impression that he knew where his lines strength and manufacturing capability was and that, combined with the costly revisions to the poor selling, though vastly improved Pacific may have been as much of a reason for killing it and steam as was the literal onslaught of AHM/Rivarossi steam engines in 1965. Better to use production capability on popular, modern locomotives that would fly off of the shelves. Athearn was a high production firm. (Mantua also had a very strong line of steam then, too, The Pacifics and Mikados plus 4 switchers but only one modern diesel, their GP-20 (as their C-430 came later.) > > Athearn was proved right as AHM/Rivarossi or any other never could compete with him on a comprehensive line of modern EMD diesels, with only the Rivarossi E-8's, plus the U25C and unusual Krauss Maffi as their only stand out diesels introduced during the 1960's. (C-liner was an early 1950's Rivarossi project.) > > Those are my thoughts, anyway, I enjoy reading others opinions as well! > > Jay W.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17099	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 7/29/2011
Subject: Re: Stubbby parts?

Sorry Gareth, I am fresh out.  Sean Sent from my iPhone On Jul 29, 2011, at 9:20 AM, "rcjge" <jgpedwards@...> wrote:   Hey Guys: Does anyone have any Lindsay Stubbu parts? I have the complete chassis w/motor and a nice shell. What I lack is the platforms, rear steps and underhood weight. Anyone? Thanks, Gareth

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17100	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 7/29/2011
Subject: Re: Stubbby parts?

So-k I'll keep looking. Don't forget the invoice for the yardhog boiler/cab and when you get time your best guess at an Erie centercab great cond. no bottom plate. Couple other in my PM's from the Tyco forum... Happy Birthday, Gareth On 29 July 2011 16:01, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote:   Sorry Gareth, I am fresh out.  Sean Sent from my iPhone On Jul 29, 2011, at 9:20 AM, "rcjge" <jgpedwards@...> wrote:   Hey Guys: Does anyone have any Lindsay Stubbu parts? I have the complete chassis w/motor and a nice shell. What I lack is the platforms, rear steps and underhood weight. Anyone? Thanks, Gareth -- "Clear Eyes, Full Heart, Can't Loose!"

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17101	From: cwrailman	Date: 7/29/2011
Subject: Walthers passenger car kits for sale

I've decided to focus on building my collecton of LaBelle, Westwood and Ambroid passenger cars and sell my collection of steel sided Walthers and JC passenger car kits. Prior to listing them on eBay I decided to give our board members a crack at them. The quoted prices are a bit lower than I will be asking on eBay. Here is a listing of the kits I have for sale. If you have any questions PLEASE CONTACT ME OFF LINE. Walthers $18 per car for our board members plus postage 6629 Has Walthers employee number 1 on 1947 packing slip 6632 Postal 6641 Has Walthers employee number 1 on 1947 packing slip 6663 Santa Fe Business car 7802 Pullman 12 Section 7811 Pullman 8 Section 7816 Pullman 10 Section JC Models $15 per car for our board members plus postage some packaging is damaged HO-9 NYC Baggage HO-11 Baggage Combine SP HO-12 12 Section Pullman RPO SP Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17102	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 7/29/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers passenger car kits for sale

Denny, Good luck with the La Belle kits. I've stopped building them due to the fact that several kits had pieces in each kit that were incorrect in size (such as the roof), and cut inconsistently and at strange angles and generally seemed to be packed by people with other things on their minds. Too bad, as they do make a nice piece when built correctly. Rick at La Belle has been cooperative in replacing parts and so on, but it's more than I want to deal with anymore. Hope you were able to use the decals for CM&StP that I sent.   Art W   In a message dated 7/29/2011 8:18:00 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, cwrailman@... writes: I've decided to focus on building my collecton of LaBelle, Westwood and Ambroid passenger cars and sell my collection of steel sided Walthers and JC passenger car kits.  Prior to listing them on eBay I decided to give our board members a crack at them.  The quoted prices are a bit lower than I will be asking on eBay.  Here is a listing of the kits I have for sale.  If you have any questions PLEASE CONTACT ME OFF LINE. Walthers $18 per car for our board members plus postage 6629 Has Walthers employee number 1 on 1947 packing slip 6632 Postal 6641 Has Walthers employee number 1 on 1947 packing slip 6663 Santa Fe Business car 7802 Pullman 12 Section 7811 Pullman 8 Section 7816 Pullman 10 Section JC Models $15 per car for our board members plus postage some packaging is damaged HO-9  NYC Baggage HO-11 Baggage Combine SP HO-12 12 Section Pullman RPO SP Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings:     Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join     (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email:     vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com     vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:     vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17103	From: ablecynic	Date: 7/30/2011
Subject: More on the Athearn RBD Pacific

Jay, Having been peripherally involved in a couple of locomotive design projects with some minor manufacturers over the years, I would say that your analysis stands the test of logic and known facts. What interested me in the discussion many years ago was that it was between a group of people who actually cut the dies for the injection molded parts -- these weren't managers, these were the craftsmen who made the models work and my guess is that they work on the Athearn Pacific was quickly seen to be one of those "rabbit hole" projects that you could pour a lot of money into and never get a good return. My brother bought one of the Athearn 0-6-0s and it ran ok, but was no match for my AHC Atlantic (which I still have) in terms of low-speed smoothness. I had one of the 'Little Monster' 0-4-2Ts which also ran, but not well at low speeds. The rubber band drive diesels (of which I have several) did run, ran well, and were inexpensive. And let's all be honest, the choice of the B&M Pacific as the prototype was a bad choice. Why Athearn didn't go with the USRA Heavy will probably never be known, but in the 50s, a lot of companies were bringing out models of the "survivors" in steam. The Kemtron C-16 and Wabash Mogul were models of antiques that had made it past 1950. Anyway, I appreciate your thoughts and to all who provided info it has helped me understand a time in the hobby that I remember, but didn't understand. V/r Matt Coleman --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Jay" <the_plainsman@...> wrote: > > Hi Nelson, and All, > > Besides reading his patent and seeing that R. M. Wilson was from California, the only information on him I know of comes from a 1983 quote from Irv Athearn printed in Dallas Mallerich II's Athearn Guide, page 35, which says in part, " A young fellow by the name of Robert Smith came in with the creation. He had a patent on it. We built one and it ran real well..." > > Athearn went on to cite the problem with band life, but also said that the Hi-F drive still had advantages in pulling power over his geared units (4 bands = 4 clutches). If Wilson was in his twenties then, there is an outside chance he still might be around today, that might be worth a search for someone to do! > > According to what I have read, what consumed Athearn's time and development money during the very early 1960's time was designing slot cars, along with Varney, Model Die Casting/Roundhouse, Ulrich, Penn Line, etc. Athearn was a little more cautious and pulled the plug on beginning actual production. > > Around 1964-1965, Athearn published ads saying they had neglected developing new model railroad products and would soon have many new items, which is when he followed up the short lived GP-30 with the GP-35, SD-45, SDP-40, DD-35, SW"1500" and the RP-25 wheeled new freight cars. > > By then, it is my impression that he knew where his lines strength and manufacturing capability was and that, combined with the costly revisions to the poor selling, though vastly improved Pacific may have been as much of a reason for killing it and steam as was the literal onslaught of AHM/Rivarossi steam engines in 1965. Better to use production capability on popular, modern locomotives that would fly off of the shelves. Athearn was a high production firm. (Mantua also had a very strong line of steam then, too, The Pacifics and Mikados plus 4 switchers but only one modern diesel, their GP-20 (as their C-430 came later.) > > Athearn was proved right as AHM/Rivarossi or any other never could compete with him on a comprehensive line of modern EMD diesels, with only the Rivarossi E-8's, plus the U25C and unusual Krauss Maffi as their only stand out diesels introduced during the 1960's. (C-liner was an early 1950's Rivarossi project.) > > Those are my thoughts, anyway, I enjoy reading others opinions as well! > > Jay W. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17104	From: Jay Wanczyk	Date: 7/30/2011
Subject: Erie 0-8-8-0 L-1 "Angus Type'" Camelback Mallet

Attachments : Erie-Locos289.pdf Hi All,   Here's a seldom seen model, an Erie L-1 0-8-8-0 Camelback Mallet.   Erie had three of them, and they functioned as successfull pushers over Gulf Summit and Starucca Viaduct in the slow, drag freight era. The prototypes, when built, were considered the largest in the world and were the subject of an article in The Scientific American at the time.  Erie later changed the headlight to a more modern round electric type.  They were extensively rebuilt circa 1923 with center cab removed and new end cabs.   These photos of my model were taken shortly after I aquired it in 1995.  The model, is built on two Mantua chassis and both are powered by seperate motors.  The boiler, cabs and front cyllinders are all constructed out of sheet brass, It pulls well, but has an intermittant short I have to track down.  The builder also never completed the valve gear on the rear chassis, which I now have enough parts and the experience to finish.  I also have an appropriate tender for it.    The modeler who built it used a Bill Schopp article and plans published circa 1955 Railroad Model Craftsman, but instead of scratchbilding the two mechanisms, he adapted two later Mantua units.  I purchased when it was about 20 years old while sharing a table at a local train show; the builder noticed I had a few Erie items for sale and said he had something I might be interested in, LOL!    It is one of my favorite models for a number of reasons, but I especially like camelbacks having their cabs forward of the midpoint of the boiler as in my opinion it gives them a more modern appearance.  Some of the L&NE Consolidations (Produced by Lee Town 30 years ago) also fit that description.   I had mentioned this model a year or two ago, but did not have scans of the photos at that time.  I usually count it in my active scale modeling roster of my favorite roads, Erie/DL&W/EL and other Northwest NJ lines,  but because of its  inspiration from a Bill Schopp article from the 1950's and use of Mantua mechanisms that were introduced almost four decades ago, I suppose it fits our Vintage HO definition as well.   W. Jay W.

@@attachment@@

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17105	From: ablecynic	Date: 7/30/2011
Subject: Re: Bill Schopp & RMC Staff's words on the Athearn RBD Pacific

The toothed-belt drive in the Overland and Precision Shays is a lot different than the rubber-band drive that Athearn used and they really can't be compared. The toothed belt is more like a chain drive -- it doesn't doesn't slip unless the raised ridges are worn, which is why Lee is redoing the drives. I have a 25-year old On3 Shay with one of those belt drives that still is as smooth as the day I bought it. The rubber-band drive (and even the O-ring drive to a geared shaft) relies on the friction of the rubber band against a metal surface. It was both the weakness and one of the strengths of the Athearn rubber-band drive. Several rubber-band drive locos in a consist would naturally adjust their speed with just a little bit of slippage on some of the bands. Matt --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Glenn" <glenn476@...> wrote: > > This is interesting—over on the On3 and O Scale boards, Lee Snover (Leetown models) is taking out belt drives in Shays—as Jerry Whitwe used to do with other O Scale locos—particularly Sunset brass-- but then I understand that Bachmann's Spectrum steamers use a belt drive--gj >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17106	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 7/30/2011
Subject: Re: Erie 0-8-8-0 L-1 "Angus Type'" Camelback Mallet [1 Attachment]

Jay, Neat engine.                    Jim H On 7/30/2011 7:38 AM, Jay Wanczyk wrote:   Hi All,   Here's a seldom seen model, an Erie L-1 0-8-8-0 Camelback Mallet.   Erie had three of them, and they functioned as successfull pushers over Gulf Summit and Starucca Viaduct in the slow, drag freight era. The prototypes, when built, were considered the largest in the world and were the subject of an article in The Scientific American at the time.  Erie later changed the headlight to a more modern round electric type.  They were extensively rebuilt circa 1923 with center cab removed and new end cabs.   These photos of my model were taken shortly after I aquired it in 1995.  The model, is built on two Mantua chassis and both are powered by seperate motors.  The boiler, cabs and front cyllinders are all constructed out of sheet brass, It pulls well, but has an intermittant short I have to track down.  The builder also never completed the valve gear on the rear chassis, which I now have enough parts and the experience to finish.  I also have an appropriate tender for it.    The modeler who built it used a Bill Schopp article and plans published circa 1955 Railroad Model Craftsman, but instead of scratchbilding the two mechanisms, he adapted two later Mantua units.  I purchased when it was about 20 years old while sharing a table at a local train show; the builder noticed I had a few Erie items for sale and said he had something I might be interested in, LOL!    It is one of my favorite models for a number of reasons, but I especially like camelbacks having their cabs forward of the midpoint of the boiler as in my opinion it gives them a more modern appearance.  Some of the L&NE Consolidations (Produced by Lee Town 30 years ago) also fit that description.   I had mentioned this model a year or two ago, but did not have scans of the photos at that time.  I usually count it in my active scale modeling roster of my favorite roads, Erie/DL&W/EL and other Northwest NJ lines,  but because of its  inspiration from a Bill Schopp article from the 1950's and use of Mantua mechanisms that were introduced almost four decades ago, I suppose it fits our Vintage HO definition as well.   W. Jay W.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17107	From: cwrailman	Date: 7/30/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers passenger car kits for sale

Art,   Sorry to hear about your issues with LaBelle kits.  Personally, I have never had any problem with any of the LaBelle kits that I built but then my entire inventory of built and unbuilt LaBelle kits is over 25 years old or older with a few dating back to the early 60's so .    Photo's of some of my built LaBelle cars can be found at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/album/73154888/pic/list   My first LaBelle kit was a combine which I built in 1974 and brush painted and then decaled.  Then a string of three more pass cars were all built in 1975 and the private car was built in 1979.  All were airbrushed and decaled.  They have been in service since that time and except for broken brake wheels have given me no problems.   I believe you are confusing me with someone else as I do not recall receiving any decals from you.  But then my memory might be clouded by time and too many adult beverages.   Now on to the shops   Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, luvprr@... wrote: > > Denny, > Good luck with the La Belle kits. I've stopped building them due to the > fact that several kits had pieces in each kit that were incorrect in size > (such as the roof), and cut inconsistently and at strange angles and generally > seemed to be packed by people with other things on their minds. Too bad, as > they do make a nice piece when built correctly. Rick at La Belle has been > cooperative in replacing parts and so on, but it's more than I want to deal > with anymore. Hope you were able to use the decals for CM&StP that I sent. > > Art W > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17108	From: dasha	Date: 7/30/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers passenger car kits for sale

I too appreciate the quality that La Belle kits can be.Yet I had a questionable experience getting a La Belle # HO-90 kit. I ordered through a dealer, to be shipped from the La Belle factory ( where Rick is working. Time for delivery? 5 weeks. many emails. Dealer puzzled about shipping. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "cwrailman" <cwrailman@...> wrote: > > > Art, > > > > Sorry to hear about your issues with LaBelle kits. Personally, I have > never had any problem with any of the LaBelle kits that I built but then > my entire inventory of built and unbuilt LaBelle kits is over 25 years > old or older with a few dating back to the early 60's so . > > > > Photo's of some of my built LaBelle cars can be found at: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/album/73154888/pic/list > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/album/73154888/pic/list> > > > > My first LaBelle kit was a combine which I built in 1974 and brush > painted and then decaled. Then a string of three more pass cars were > all built in 1975 and the private car was built in 1979. All were > airbrushed and decaled. They have been in service since that time and > except for broken brake wheels have given me no problems. > > > > I believe you are confusing me with someone else as I do not recall > receiving any decals from you. But then my memory might be clouded by > time and too many adult beverages. > > > > Now on to the shops > > > > Denny > > Janitor in Training > > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, luvprr@ wrote: > > > > Denny, > > Good luck with the La Belle kits. I've stopped building them due to > the > > fact that several kits had pieces in each kit that were incorrect in > size > > (such as the roof), and cut inconsistently and at strange angles and > generally > > seemed to be packed by people with other things on their minds. Too > bad, as > > they do make a nice piece when built correctly. Rick at La Belle has > been > > cooperative in replacing parts and so on, but it's more than I want to > deal > > with anymore. Hope you were able to use the decals for CM&StP that I > sent. > > > > Art W > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17109	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 7/30/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers passenger car kits for sale

The La Belle problem seems to be more or less recent although I did build an older 80' observation car where the roof was so short that I had to extend it with great difficulty so that it matched the rest of it. I've only had trouble with the LB passenger car parts and packaging so far. Personal note to Denny: No confusion on my part--I actually did send you CM&StP decals for which you sent a check after a delay for which you apologized saying that I could just keep it as sending it had slipped your mind or whatever. . . . LOL. Need to stay away from leaning over your work too long and inhaling those noxious adhesive fumes in the back shop! Nice pics of your past work in any case.   Art W   In a message dated 7/30/2011 9:03:10 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, dasha469@... writes: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/album/73154888/pic/list

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17111	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 7/31/2011
Subject: Re: Erie 0-8-8-0 L-1 "Angus Type'" Camelback Mallet [1 Attachment]

HI Jay,   That loco looks very nice so far.  Like the vintage track you are displaying it on also.   Take care,   Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Jay Wanczyk Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2011 7:38 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Erie 0-8-8-0 L-1 "Angus Type'" Camelback Mallet [1 Attachment]     Hi All,   Here's a seldom seen model, an Erie L-1 0-8-8-0 Camelback Mallet.    Erie had three of them, and they functioned as successfull pushers over Gulf Summit and Starucca Viaduct in the slow, drag freight era. The prototypes, when built, were considered the largest in the world and were the subject of an article in The Scientific American at the time.  Erie later changed the headlight to a more modern round electric type.  They were extensively rebuilt circa 1923 with center cab removed and new end cabs.   These photos of my model were taken shortly after I aquired it in 1995.  The model, is built on two Mantua chassis and both are powered by seperate motors.  The boiler, cabs and front cyllinders are all constructed out of sheet brass, It pulls well, but has an intermittant short I have to track down.  The builder also never completed the valve gear on the rear chassis, which I now have enough parts and the experience to finish.  I also have an appropriate tender for it.    The modeler who built it used a Bill Schopp article and plans published circa 1955 Railroad Model Craftsman, but instead of scratchbilding the two mechanisms, he adapted two later Mantua units.  I purchased when it was about 20 years old while sharing a table at a local train show; the builder noticed I had a few Erie items for sale and said he had something I might be interested in, LOL!    It is one of my favorite models for a number of reasons, but I especially like camelbacks having their cabs forward of the midpoint of the boiler as in my opinion it gives them a more modern appearance.  Some of the L&NE Consolidations (Produced by Lee Town 30 years ago) also fit that description.   I had mentioned this model a year or two ago, but did not have scans of the photos at that time.  I usually count it in my active scale modeling roster of my favorite roads, Erie/DL&W/EL and other Northwest NJ lines,  but because of its  inspiration from a Bill Schopp article from the 1950's and use of Mantua mechanisms that were introduced almost four decades ago, I suppose it fits our Vintage HO definition as well.   W. Jay W.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17112	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 7/31/2011
Subject: lost two bids

> , >> >> >> >> Not doing much with the trains except helping Larry >> Stevenson / HOseeker with his site. Saw two items on eBay and out >> smarted myself on the first one because the second one came up and I >> only had money for one so I pulled the first bid. I had seen a >> really nice looking Lionel New Haven E-33 Rectifier engine. I >> originally had a $116 bid on it for at the end and it went for $67 >> and I probably would have won it. Then I saw a very rare low >> production item most won't even know about come up. It was a set of >> Athearn items, a RBD F unit and some cars known of which where worth >> much. It was the packaging, box and paperwork that was worth bidding. >> >> Around 1958-1960 Herkimer of OK Streamliners ( and OK CUB model >> gas airplane engines ) put out some special sets. Herkimer only made >> streamlined extruded passenger cars but came out with a passenger set >> using their cars and an Athearn RBD powered A and dummy A in Santa Fe >> Warbonnet colors. But they then took it a step farther putting an >> Athearn freight set in their packaging. I'm sure there were not many >> of them. >> >> I knew about these sets that had RBD and gear Powered F-7s >> depending on the set but not saying by Athearn. I contacted the >> present owner who said yes they were Athearn and would I be >> interested in donating the small catalog to the Herkimer museum he >> was putting together which I did, He is a third generation owner of >> the family business. I would have loved to win that actual set but my >> bid $126.51 was not enough >> >> If you care to look go to 370529089912 6 pc OK HO Scale >> Diesel & Freight car train set. I doubt there will be many next times >> for it. >> >> >> Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17113	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 7/31/2011
Subject: Re: lost two bids

Attachments : Hi-f rdc set.jpg hi-f rdc set box.jpg Hey Jim: Should have included pics and ID for that set... It is set 6204 was cataloged in 1961-62 Best, Gareth PS: Jim if you're not interested and know someone who is please forward this.

@@attachment@@

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17114	From: Rick Jones	Date: 7/31/2011
Subject: Re: lost two bids [2 Attachments]

On 7/31/2011 10:23 AM, J. Gareth Edwards wrote: > [Attachment(s) <#TopText> from J. Gareth Edwards included below] > > Hey Jim: > > Should have included pics and ID for that set... > > It is set 6204 was cataloged in 1961-62 Hmmm, did it originally come with the bag of extra rubber bands, or did an owner of the set add those in at some point? -- Rick Jones Why does a round pizza come in a square box?

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17115	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 7/31/2011
Subject: Re: lost two bids

Hi Rick: Honestly I don't remember. Grabbed it when visiting an out of the way HS, to pick up an ebay Hobbytown win. Saw it and impulse got the best of me... until now.... The RPO was not originally part of it but it will be included... -Gareth On 31 July 2011 11:59, Rick Jones <r.t.jones@...> wrote:   On 7/31/2011 10:23 AM, J. Gareth Edwards wrote: > [Attachment(s) <#TopText> from J. Gareth Edwards included below] > > Hey Jim: > > Should have included pics and ID for that set... > > It is set 6204 was cataloged in 1961-62 Hmmm, did it originally come with the bag of extra rubber bands, or did an owner of the set add those in at some point? -- Rick Jones Why does a round pizza come in a square box? -- "Clear Eyes, Full Heart, Can't Loose!"

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17116	From: rcjge	Date: 7/31/2011
Subject: Pics in 4 sale Gareth

Hey Guys: Started a folder in Photo's labelled 4 Sale-Gareth for some stuff I'm selling. If interested please note I'm in Canada so the shipping is higher, however I will be travelling to to NY in the next while a can ship from there if speed does not concern you... Thanks, Gareth

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17117	From: Jay	Date: 8/1/2011
Subject: Re: Erie 0-8-8-0 L-1 "Angus Type'" Camelback Mallet [1 Attachment]

Thanks, Jim H and Chuck H., the locomotive has been a lot of fun to have and even work on as the builder, - one Jimm D. Thomas deserves credit for both his craftsmanship and fidelity to the prototype. Chuck, you noticed the fiber/fibre HO track! While my original "Boy's Life" layout was made with sectional Atlas code 100, brass rail so popular in the early 1960's, I used the fiber/fibre ties 3' track strips for my adjacent yeard. Lucky it was a dry basement, and never had warping or gauge problems, (never ballasted the yard with the diluted white glue method I used elsewhere!) Sill have a few partial lengths around and simply picked that section up when I took those photos. Jay --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > Jay, > > Neat engine. > > Jim H > > > > On 7/30/2011 7:38 AM, Jay Wanczyk wrote: > > [Attachment(s) <#TopText> from Jay Wanczyk included below] > > Hi All, > > Here's a seldom seen model, an Erie L-1 0-8-8-0 Camelback Mallet. > > Erie had three of them, and they functioned as successfull pushers > > over Gulf Summit and Starucca Viaduct in the slow, drag freight era. > > The prototypes, when built, were considered the largest in the world > > and were the subject of an article in The Scientific American at the > > time. Erie later changed the headlight to a more modern round > > electric type. They were extensively rebuilt circa 1923 with center > > cab removed and new end cabs. > > These photos of my model were taken shortly after I aquired it in > > 1995. The model, is built on two Mantua chassis and both are powered > > by seperate motors. The boiler, cabs and front cyllinders are all > > constructed out of sheet brass, It pulls well, but has an intermittant > > short I have to track down. The builder also never completed the > > valve gear on the rear chassis, which I now have enough parts and the > > experience to finish. I also have an appropriate tender for it. > > The modeler who built it used a Bill Schopp article and plans > > published circa 1955 Railroad Model Craftsman, but instead of > > scratchbilding the two mechanisms, he adapted two later Mantua units. > > I purchased when it was about 20 years old while sharing a table at a > > local train show; the builder noticed I had a few Erie items for sale > > and said he had something I might be interested in, LOL! > > It is one of my favorite models for a number of reasons, but I > > especially like camelbacks having their cabs forward of the > > midpoint of the boiler as in my opinion it gives them a more modern > > appearance. Some of the L&NE Consolidations (Produced by Lee Town 30 > > years ago) also fit that description. > > I had mentioned this model a year or two ago, but did not have scans > > of the photos at that time. I usually count it in my active scale > > modeling roster of my favorite roads, Erie/DL&W/EL and other Northwest > > NJ lines, but because of its inspiration from a Bill Schopp article > > from the 1950's and use of Mantua mechanisms that were introduced > > almost four decades ago, I suppose it fits our Vintage HOdefinition as > > well. > > W. Jay W. > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17118	From: Jay	Date: 8/1/2011
Subject: Re: lost two bids

Hi Jim, Too bad you did not get what you were looking for, but sometimes it seems winning bids is not in the cards for us - I have also missed most of the items I have looked at in the past couple weeks, mostly being signifigantly out bid, or in one case missing out on a hard to find fairly moderatly expensive 30 year old historical book that went for a paltry $1.75 as I was in error on the bid closing day, LOL! On the Herlimer set, do you have Ted Brebeck of OK Engines/Streamliner's self published history of the line, titled, "Herkey Rides the Rails?" It is a good general guide to the line, corporate history and traces it from the Kasiner days and though the evolutionary changes made to the passenger car line and lists all of the sets. Although not as detailed as the Varney or Athearn guides, it still is good summer reading. It is availble direct from them from their website. http://okengines.com/ W. Jay W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > > , > >> > >> > >> > >> Not doing much with the trains except helping Larry > >> Stevenson / HOseeker with his site. Saw two items on eBay and out > >> smarted myself on the first one because the second one came up and I > >> only had money for one so I pulled the first bid. I had seen a > >> really nice looking Lionel New Haven E-33 Rectifier engine. I > >> originally had a $116 bid on it for at the end and it went for $67 > >> and I probably would have won it. Then I saw a very rare low > >> production item most won't even know about come up. It was a set of > >> Athearn items, a RBD F unit and some cars known of which where worth > >> much. It was the packaging, box and paperwork that was worth bidding. > >> > >> Around 1958-1960 Herkimer of OK Streamliners ( and OK CUB model > >> gas airplane engines ) put out some special sets. Herkimer only made > >> streamlined extruded passenger cars but came out with a passenger set > >> using their cars and an Athearn RBD powered A and dummy A in Santa Fe > >> Warbonnet colors. But they then took it a step farther putting an > >> Athearn freight set in their packaging. I'm sure there were not many > >> of them. > >> > >> I knew about these sets that had RBD and gear Powered F-7s > >> depending on the set but not saying by Athearn. I contacted the > >> present owner who said yes they were Athearn and would I be > >> interested in donating the small catalog to the Herkimer museum he > >> was putting together which I did, He is a third generation owner of > >> the family business. I would have loved to win that actual set but my > >> bid $126.51 was not enough > >> > >> If you care to look go to 370529089912 6 pc OK HO Scale > >> Diesel & Freight car train set. I doubt there will be many next times > >> for it. > >> > >> > >> Jim H > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17119	From: Jay	Date: 8/1/2011
Subject: Varney Lil' Raskal "Wreck-proof Train"

Hi Gareth, All, Though not a set collector, I noticed that you have several photos of the Varney produced Lil' Raskal set you want to sell and I have a information question on the type of drive the locomotive uses. It appears to have only two wheelsets, (which is common to the rest of the Lil' Raskal cars), but it also appears that the locomotive wheelsets mav have a rubber band drive as the axles have drums on them. Is my guess correct? I found one of those Raskal gondolas on the proverbial $3 train show table a few years back and fist picked it up because of those nutty, but unique yellow plastic NMRA couplers (not metal loops as stated in the Varney Guide). I then noticed the substantial, hardened steel channel that served as both the underframe and sideframe, and how solid the steel axle wheelsets were (and still am impressed how well they roll). They were certainly kid-resistant, if not totally kid proof, LOL! W. Jay W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "rcjge" <jgpedwards@...> wrote: > > Hey Guys: > > Started a folder in Photo's labelled 4 Sale-Gareth for some stuff I'm selling. If interested please note I'm in Canada so the shipping is higher, however I will be travelling to to NY in the next while a can ship from there if speed does not concern you... > > Thanks, > Gareth >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17120	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 8/1/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Lil' Raskal "Wreck-proof Train"

Hi Jay: opening storage bins this week. When I come across it I'll flip it over and have a look! -Gareth On 1 August 2011 09:24, Jay <the_plainsman@...> wrote:   Hi Gareth, All, Though not a set collector, I noticed that you have several photos of the Varney produced Lil' Raskal set you want to sell and I have a information question on the type of drive the locomotive uses. It appears to have only two wheelsets, (which is common to the rest of the Lil' Raskal cars), but it also appears that the locomotive wheelsets mav have a rubber band drive as the axles have drums on them. Is my guess correct? I found one of those Raskal gondolas on the proverbial $3 train show table a few years back and fist picked it up because of those nutty, but unique yellow plastic NMRA couplers (not metal loops as stated in the Varney Guide). I then noticed the substantial, hardened steel channel that served as both the underframe and sideframe, and how solid the steel axle wheelsets were (and still am impressed how well they roll). They were certainly kid-resistant, if not totally kid proof, LOL! W. Jay W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "rcjge" <jgpedwards@...> wrote: > > Hey Guys: > > Started a folder in Photo's labelled 4 Sale-Gareth for some stuff I'm selling. If interested please note I'm in Canada so the shipping is higher, however I will be travelling to to NY in the next while a can ship from there if speed does not concern you... > > Thanks, > Gareth > -- "Clear Eyes, Full Heart, Can't Loose!"

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17121	From: cwrailman	Date: 8/1/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers passenger car kits for sale

Try as I might I really cannot remember any such communication about CM&StP decals and I have no idea why I would need them. There are two other Denny's on this board and maybe you are confusing me with one of them. I live in Scottsdale, Arizona. Thank GOD you are not looking to get back child support or some such.:) Now on to the shops. Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops > note to Denny: No confusion on my part--I actually did send you CM&StP decals > for which you sent a check after a delay for which you apologized saying > that I could just keep it as sending it had slipped your mind or whatever. . > . . LOL. Need to stay away from leaning over your work too long and > inhaling those noxious adhesive fumes in the back shop! Nice pics of your past > work in any case. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17122	From: rcjge	Date: 8/1/2011
Subject: Um Jim or one of you fella's-Weird

Hey Gents jsut saw this!? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280717578340&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:US:1123 One of you I'm sure will elucidate me and others??? -Gareth

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17123	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 8/1/2011
Subject: Re: Um Jim or one of you fella's-Weird

The frame around the driver wheels, appears to look like that on my Varney Pacific. Probably a scratchbuilt locomotive on a Varney frame. -Steve Neubaum From: rcjge <jgpedwards@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, August 1, 2011 1:23 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Um Jim or one of you fella's-Weird   Hey Gents jsut saw this!? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280717578340&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:US:1123 One of you I'm sure will elucidate me and others??? -Gareth

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17124	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 8/1/2011
Subject: Re: Um Jim or one of you fella's-Weird

Sorta a Belpaire firebox! -Gareth On 1 August 2011 14:27, Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote:   The frame around the driver wheels, appears to look like that on my Varney Pacific. Probably a scratchbuilt locomotive on a Varney frame. -Steve Neubaum From: rcjge <jgpedwards@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, August 1, 2011 1:23 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Um Jim or one of you fella's-Weird   Hey Gents jsut saw this!? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280717578340&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:US:1123 One of you I'm sure will elucidate me and others??? -Gareth -- "Clear Eyes, Full Heart, Can't Loose!"

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17125	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 8/1/2011
Subject: Re: Um Jim or one of you fella's-Weird

Gareth,     Nothing like this was made by Varney.   It's some English company in my opinion. I don't even think any Varney parts were used even undercarriage. How the seller decided to add Varney to it I don't know and his description mentions RARE to boot. In my opinion BUYER BEWARE.                                                                    Jim H On 8/1/2011 2:23 PM, rcjge wrote:   Hey Gents jsut saw this!? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280717578340&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:US:1123 One of you I'm sure will elucidate me and others??? -Gareth

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17126	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 8/1/2011
Subject: Re: Um Jim or one of you fella's-Weird

Hi Jim: Nothing I'm interested in, but I thought I'd bring it to your attention since from time to time you and others here have bought something a little "different", just cause they were interesting. AND it could well have been one of those obscure things you guys are often looking for and we neophytes have no clue of! :) Hope you're well Jim. -Gareth On 1 August 2011 14:44, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote:   Gareth,     Nothing like this was made by Varney.   It's some English company in my opinion. I don't even think any Varney parts were used even undercarriage. How the seller decided to add Varney to it I don't know and his description mentions RARE to boot. In my opinion BUYER BEWARE.                                                                    Jim H On 8/1/2011 2:23 PM, rcjge wrote:   Hey Gents jsut saw this!? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280717578340&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:US:1123 One of you I'm sure will elucidate me and others??? -Gareth -- "Clear Eyes, Full Heart, Can't Loose!"

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17127	From: Andrew Emmerson	Date: 8/1/2011
Subject: Re: Um Jim or one of you fella's-Weird

This is a 4mm scale (British 00) King class loco made around 1950 by Graham Farish of Britain. See eBay 230638869588 for an example. It used a vibrator drive mechanism in the tender (instead of a permanent magnet motor) driving a shaft to a gearbox in the cab of the loco.   No Varney connection whatsoever.   Regards, Andy Emmerson.   From: rcjge Sent: Monday, August 01, 2011 7:23 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Um Jim or one of you fella's-Weird   Hey Gents jsut saw this!? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280717578340&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:US:1123 One of you I'm sure will elucidate me and others??? -Gareth

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17128	From: Jay	Date: 8/1/2011
Subject: Re: Um Jim or one of you fella's-Weird

Hi Andy E., All, Andy E., nice work on the ID, interesting to learn how they powered it. Looking at the rest of the seller's listings, seems to be someone with just a little knowledge perhaps making an assumption it is Varney because the dummy coupler or coupler pocket says "Varney." That happens quite often. He may have even checked some Varney information and not found it, concluding it is "rare," which some also do. I guess someone should tell the seller about it so an equally clueless bidder or two is not mislead. Just purchased an assembled Walthers #5509 or #6809 cast metal outside braced gon last week that was listed as "Varney" for that reason, even though it clearly was a assembled late 1930's or 1940's Walthers kit by examining the brace pattern on the sides. The "Walthers" name cast between the underframe rails was slathered in thick black paint and few see the micro lettered "Walthers" name on the inside panels. W. Jay W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Andrew Emmerson" <andrew.emmerson4@...> wrote: > > This is a 4mm scale (British 00) King class loco made around 1950 by Graham Farish of Britain. See eBay 230638869588 for an example. It used a vibrator drive mechanism in the tender (instead of a permanent magnet motor) driving a shaft to a gearbox in the cab of the loco. > > No Varney connection whatsoever. > > Regards, > Andy Emmerson. > > > > From: rcjge > Sent: Monday, August 01, 2011 7:23 PM > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [vintageHO] Um Jim or one of you fella's-Weird > > > > Hey Gents jsut saw this!? > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280717578340&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:US:1123 > > One of you I'm sure will elucidate me and others??? > > -Gareth >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17129	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 8/1/2011
Subject: Re: Um Jim or one of you fella's-Weird

Jay: Do you collect Vintage Walther's cars? I have a Walthers passenger car partially built that might interest you. A friend grabbed it at a train show for me since it was vintage. Lot's of wood to it. He's into "Traction" so no knowledge from him. As I dig out and clear out some of this stuff it's not at the moment in my area of interest so it's going..... -Gareth On 1 August 2011 18:20, Jay <the_plainsman@...> wrote:   Hi Andy E., All, Andy E., nice work on the ID, interesting to learn how they powered it. Looking at the rest of the seller's listings, seems to be someone with just a little knowledge perhaps making an assumption it is Varney because the dummy coupler or coupler pocket says "Varney." That happens quite often. He may have even checked some Varney information and not found it, concluding it is "rare," which some also do. I guess someone should tell the seller about it so an equally clueless bidder or two is not mislead. Just purchased an assembled Walthers #5509 or #6809 cast metal outside braced gon last week that was listed as "Varney" for that reason, even though it clearly was a assembled late 1930's or 1940's Walthers kit by examining the brace pattern on the sides. The "Walthers" name cast between the underframe rails was slathered in thick black paint and few see the micro lettered "Walthers" name on the inside panels. W. Jay W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Andrew Emmerson" <andrew.emmerson4@...> wrote: > > This is a 4mm scale (British 00) King class loco made around 1950 by Graham Farish of Britain. See eBay 230638869588 for an example. It used a vibrator drive mechanism in the tender (instead of a permanent magnet motor) driving a shaft to a gearbox in the cab of the loco. > > No Varney connection whatsoever. > > Regards, > Andy Emmerson. > > > > From: rcjge > Sent: Monday, August 01, 2011 7:23 PM > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [vintageHO] Um Jim or one of you fella's-Weird > > > > Hey Gents jsut saw this!? > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280717578340&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:US:1123 > > One of you I'm sure will elucidate me and others??? > > -Gareth > -- "Clear Eyes, Full Heart, Can't Loose!"

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17130	From: Paul Stevenson	Date: 8/1/2011
Subject: Re: {Disarmed} Re: [vintageHO] Um Jim or one of you fella's-Weird

On 01/08/2011 21:37, Andrew Emmerson wrote: > This is a 4mm scale (British 00) King class loco made around 1950 by > Graham Farish of Britain. See eBay 230638869588 for an example. It used > a vibrator drive mechanism in the tender (instead of a permanent magnet > motor) driving a shaft to a gearbox in the cab of the loco. > No Varney connection whatsoever. > Regards, > Andy Emmerson. > > *From:* rcjge <mailto:jgpedwards@...> > *Sent:* Monday, August 01, 2011 7:23 PM > *To:* vintageHO@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > *Subject:* [vintageHO] Um Jim or one of you fella's-Weird > > Hey Gents jsut saw this!? > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280717578340&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:US:1123 > <http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280717578340&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:US:1123> > > One of you I'm sure will elucidate me and others??? > > -Gareth Hi all, just delurking from the UK. Andy is spot on! He beat me to it. I would say that the loco and tender look as if they have been repainted. It has the correct number of wheels so the seller is wrong on that count also. The red wheels are something of a puzzle, I wonder if the loco has a chassis from something else. The original Graham Farish motors were pretty dire. The body is diecast. I wonder why the seller thinks its Varney? Paul

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17131	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 8/1/2011
Subject: Re: Um Jim or one of you fella's-Weird

Re the George V. The seller added a comment. The Varney name did come from the coupler pocket, as was suggested earlier in this thread. On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 6:29 PM, J. Gareth Edwards <jgpedwards@...> wrote:   Jay: Do you collect Vintage Walther's cars? I have a Walthers passenger car partially built that might interest you. A friend grabbed it at a train show for me since it was vintage. Lot's of wood to it. He's into "Traction" so no knowledge from him. As I dig out and clear out some of this stuff it's not at the moment in my area of interest so it's going..... -Gareth On 1 August 2011 18:20, Jay <the_plainsman@...> wrote:   Hi Andy E., All, Andy E., nice work on the ID, interesting to learn how they powered it. Looking at the rest of the seller's listings, seems to be someone with just a little knowledge perhaps making an assumption it is Varney because the dummy coupler or coupler pocket says "Varney." That happens quite often. He may have even checked some Varney information and not found it, concluding it is "rare," which some also do. I guess someone should tell the seller about it so an equally clueless bidder or two is not mislead. Just purchased an assembled Walthers #5509 or #6809 cast metal outside braced gon last week that was listed as "Varney" for that reason, even though it clearly was a assembled late 1930's or 1940's Walthers kit by examining the brace pattern on the sides. The "Walthers" name cast between the underframe rails was slathered in thick black paint and few see the micro lettered "Walthers" name on the inside panels. W. Jay W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Andrew Emmerson" <andrew.emmerson4@...> wrote: > > This is a 4mm scale (British 00) King class loco made around 1950 by Graham Farish of Britain. See eBay 230638869588 for an example. It used a vibrator drive mechanism in the tender (instead of a permanent magnet motor) driving a shaft to a gearbox in the cab of the loco. > > No Varney connection whatsoever. > > Regards, > Andy Emmerson. > > > > From: rcjge > Sent: Monday, August 01, 2011 7:23 PM > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [vintageHO] Um Jim or one of you fella's-Weird > > > > Hey Gents jsut saw this!? > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280717578340&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:US:1123 > > One of you I'm sure will elucidate me and others??? > > -Gareth > -- "Clear Eyes, Full Heart, Can't Loose!" -- Regards, Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17132	From: Denny Anspach	Date: 8/2/2011
Subject: Re: Um Jim or one of you fella's-Weird

Interesting model of an interesting and quite famous prototype. As already pointed out by others, no Varney connection whatsoever. King George V was a very large and very powerful 4-6-0 built by and for the Great Western Railroad, at the time of construction considered to be one of the world's "standard' railroads (London-Bristol-Cornwall). The locomotive was displayed under steam at the B&O RR's Fair of the Iron Horse in 1927, after which it toured on American rails. A B&O silver plated bell was presented to the GWR to commemorate its American visit, and the bell -handsomely center-mounted on the buffer beam- remains a current feature on this preserved locomotive. B&O president Daniel Willard was so impressed by the exceedingly-handsome appearance of this locomotive , that many of the experimental steam locomotives that emanated from the Mt. Clare Shops in the '30s bore very similar British features, i.e. capped stacks, full lagging, "clock" smoke box fronts, hidden piping and air pumps, etc. Denny Denny S. Anspach, MD Okoboji, Iowa

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17133	From: Jay	Date: 8/2/2011
Subject: Re: Um Jim or one of you fella's-Weird

Hi Doc Denny, I appreciate the background on the King George V locomotive and especially the B&O link. About eight or so years ago, I picked up what seems to be a Custom Brass boiler/cab and tender assembly (no chassis or tender underframe) for the B&O Lord Baltimore Pacific and only did some limited research on it, finding it ran on the Royal Blue service into NJ for a brief period, (which is why it still is in the collection and looking for a suitable chassis for it). I had wondered about the reason behind the British influence on B&O. Thanks for the information. Jay W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Denny Anspach <danspach@...> wrote: > > Interesting model of an interesting and quite famous prototype. As already pointed out by others, no Varney connection whatsoever. > > King George V was a very large and very powerful 4-6-0 built by and for the Great Western Railroad, at the time of construction considered to be one of the world's "standard' railroads (London-Bristol-Cornwall). The locomotive was displayed under steam at the B&O RR's Fair of the Iron Horse in 1927, after which it toured on American rails. A B&O silver plated bell was presented to the GWR to commemorate its American visit, and the bell -handsomely center-mounted on the buffer beam- remains a current feature on this preserved locomotive. > > B&O president Daniel Willard was so impressed by the exceedingly-handsome appearance of this locomotive , that many of the experimental steam locomotives that emanated from the Mt. Clare Shops in the '30s bore very similar British features, i.e. capped stacks, full lagging, "clock" smoke box fronts, hidden piping and air pumps, etc. > > Denny > > Denny S. Anspach, MD > Okoboji, Iowa >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17134	From: Denny Anspach	Date: 8/3/2011
Subject: Graham-Fairish King George V: Was- Um Jim or one of you fella's-Weir

Jay writes- .... I picked up what seems to be a Custom Brass boiler/cab and tender assembly (no chassis or tender underframe) for the B&O Lord Baltimore Pacific and only did some limited research on it, finding it ran on the Royal Blue service into NJ for a brief period, (which is why it still is in the collection and looking for a suitable chassis for it). I had wondered about the reason behind the British influence on B&O. You have it almost exactly right (the LORD BALTIMORE was a 4-6-4, one of only four classes of Hudsons to have 7' driving wheels). It was an extremely handsome very striking locomotive, rivaled on the B&O only by its almost identical but shorter sister, the 4-4-4 LADY BALTIMORE.  Both LORD and LADY were very British-looking aside from the delicate boiler tube (strap steel?) pilots. Unfortunately, their great looks were not matched by stellar performance, both being too light on their feet to be judged successful.  If memory serves, the LORD spent the greater part of its working existence on the Chicago & Alton's ABRAHAM LINCOLN Chicago-St. Louis (the C&A was owned/controlled by the B&O).   I have always had the "I wants" when it comes to models of these engines. Denny   Denny S. Anspach, MD Okoboji, Iowa

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17135	From: John H	Date: 8/3/2011
Subject: Re: Graham-Fairish King George V: Was- Um Jim or one of you fella's-

Denny, Gotta agree with you. The Lord and Lady Baltimore were arguably the best looking streamlined/semi-streamlined locomotives in the U.S. The Milwaukee Road's Hiawatha Atlantic's (Love the huge drivers and simple paint scheme) and the SP's GS series 4-8-4's (in black) were the only competition. All the others were either ungainly in proportion or over done to the point of not having the look of mechanical capability that steamers should have (whether it's there or not, as in the case of the Lady). Maybe it's because there were only those two, but I always had the yearns for them myself. John Hagen --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Denny Anspach <danspach@...> wrote: > > Jay writes- > > > .... I picked up what seems to be a Custom Brass boiler/cab and tender assembly (no chassis or tender underframe) for the B&O Lord Baltimore Pacific and only did some limited research on it, finding it ran on the Royal Blue service into NJ for a brief period, (which is why it still is in the collection and looking for a suitable chassis for it). I had wondered about the reason behind the British influence on B&O. > > You have it almost exactly right (the LORD BALTIMORE was a 4-6-4, one of only four classes of Hudsons to have 7' driving wheels). It was an extremely handsome very striking locomotive, rivaled on the B&O only by its almost identical but shorter sister, the 4-4-4 LADY BALTIMORE. Both LORD and LADY were very British-looking aside from the delicate boiler tube (strap steel?) pilots. Unfortunately, their great looks were not matched by stellar performance, both being too light on their feet to be judged successful. > > If memory serves, the LORD spent the greater part of its working existence on the Chicago & Alton's ABRAHAM LINCOLN Chicago-St. Louis (the C&A was owned/controlled by the B&O). > > I have always had the "I wants" when it comes to models of these engines. > > Denny > > Denny S. Anspach, MD > Okoboji, Iowa >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17136	From: Jay	Date: 8/3/2011
Subject: Re: Graham-Fairish King George V: Was- Um Jim or one of you fella's-

Denny, Thanks again for setting me straight that the Lord Baltimore is a Hudson, not a Pacific. Not having the running gear, it at first gave me the impression of being a beautiful, light Pacisfic and that idea has been hard to shake as my reference to Hudsons has always been the very heavy large examples on the Lackawanna and the more famous NY Central. I believe the Lord Baltimore only operated on the Royal Blue servioce for a few scant months in 1935 before being shifted to leading the Abraham Lincoln on the Chicago & Alton. For those unfamiliar with this beautiful locomotive, here is a link to a few good photos, including one of it leaveing Washington Union Station under PRR catenary. http://donsdepot.donrossgroup.net/dr838.htm W. Jay W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Denny Anspach <danspach@...> wrote: > > Jay writes- > > > .... I picked up what seems to be a Custom Brass boiler/cab and tender assembly (no chassis or tender underframe) for the B&O Lord Baltimore Pacific and only did some limited research on it, finding it ran on the Royal Blue service into NJ for a brief period, (which is why it still is in the collection and looking for a suitable chassis for it). I had wondered about the reason behind the British influence on B&O. > > You have it almost exactly right (the LORD BALTIMORE was a 4-6-4, one of only four classes of Hudsons to have 7' driving wheels). It was an extremely handsome very striking locomotive, rivaled on the B&O only by its almost identical but shorter sister, the 4-4-4 LADY BALTIMORE. Both LORD and LADY were very British-looking aside from the delicate boiler tube (strap steel?) pilots. Unfortunately, their great looks were not matched by stellar performance, both being too light on their feet to be judged successful. > > If memory serves, the LORD spent the greater part of its working existence on the Chicago & Alton's ABRAHAM LINCOLN Chicago-St. Louis (the C&A was owned/controlled by the B&O). > > I have always had the "I wants" when it comes to models of these engines. > > Denny > > Denny S. Anspach, MD > Okoboji, Iowa >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17137	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 8/3/2011
Subject: Re: Graham-Fairish King George V: Was- Um Jim or one of you fella's-

I'm sure everyone has their favorite engine or engines but when you talk streamlined steam I personally like the two  4-6-2 Pacifics done by the Lehigh Valley. The Black Diamond and the John Wilkes are not only a nice streamlined design but in my humble opinion the red and black with the white stripes is awesome. Add a string of similarly painted passenger cars makes it look better.    Again to each his own.                                                                                    Jim H On 8/3/2011 9:21 AM, John H wrote:   Denny, Gotta agree with you. The Lord and Lady Baltimore were arguably the best looking streamlined/semi-streamlined locomotives in the U.S. The Milwaukee Road's Hiawatha Atlantic's (Love the huge drivers and simple paint scheme) and the SP's GS series 4-8-4's (in black) were the only competition. All the others were either ungainly in proportion or over done to the point of not having the look of mechanical capability that steamers should have (whether it's there or not, as in the case of the Lady). Maybe it's because there were only those two, but I always had the yearns for them myself. John Hagen --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Denny Anspach <danspach@...> wrote: > > Jay writes- > > > .... I picked up what seems to be a Custom Brass boiler/cab and tender assembly (no chassis or tender underframe) for the B&O Lord Baltimore Pacific and only did some limited research on it, finding it ran on the Royal Blue service into NJ for a brief period, (which is why it still is in the collection and looking for a suitable chassis for it). I had wondered about the reason behind the British influence on B&O. > > You have it almost exactly right (the LORD BALTIMORE was a 4-6-4, one of only four classes of Hudsons to have 7' driving wheels). It was an extremely handsome very striking locomotive, rivaled on the B&O only by its almost identical but shorter sister, the 4-4-4 LADY BALTIMORE. Both LORD and LADY were very British-looking aside from the delicate boiler tube (strap steel?) pilots. Unfortunately, their great looks were not matched by stellar performance, both being too light on their feet to be judged successful. > > If memory serves, the LORD spent the greater part of its working existence on the Chicago & Alton's ABRAHAM LINCOLN Chicago-St. Louis (the C&A was owned/controlled by the B&O). > > I have always had the "I wants" when it comes to models of these engines. > > Denny > > Denny S. Anspach, MD > Okoboji, Iowa >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17138	From: nvrr49	Date: 8/3/2011
Subject: Ohio Seamless Tube Gon COLOR

What color, brand, etc. should I use on my Walthers version of the OSTD car? Reefer yellow is close, but I would like better if someone has suggestions. I also have a Varney car that needs some touch-up. Kent in KC nvrr49.blogspot.com

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17139	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 8/3/2011
Subject: Re: Ohio Seamless Tube Gon COLOR

I used Tamiya Lemon Yellow on mine.  Check out the photos in Vic's Vintage. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/album/801906017/pic/312846336/view?picmode=large&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&dir=asc According to the prototype write up, it was Lemon Yellow.  I primed the Walthers car with a light coat of white auto primer prior to airbrushing the Lemon Yellow. I have not yet figured out which is the best yellow for the Varney car as I plan on removing one end and adding the special structure and railings. Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: nvrr49@... Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2011 01:26:49 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Ohio Seamless Tube Gon COLOR   What color, brand, etc. should I use on my Walthers version of the OSTD car? Reefer yellow is close, but I would like better if someone has suggestions. I also have a Varney car that needs some touch-up. Kent in KC nvrr49.blogspot.com

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17140	From: Jay	Date: 8/4/2011
Subject: Re: Graham-Fairish King George V: Was- Um Jim or one of you fella's-

Hi Jim, I never considered the Lord Baltimore or some of the British influenced locomotives on the D&H to be streamlined, just clean, modern designs. In restospect, I guess they were! Of the fully streamlined steam, have to agree with you about the LV's John Wilkes designed by Otto Kuhler. I still have my LV books out and am looking at the colored painting of it on the cover of The Handsomest Trains in the World. I remember that Overland had a factory painted HO model shown on one of their back page ads 15 or so years ago and it looked spectacular! Of all the designers, I seem to like more of Kuhler's work over Dryfuss or even Lowey's firm (though I like some of Lowey's firm's designs, too), but Kuhler seemed to have the greatest affinity for railroads in general and did more railroad designs (steam, diesel, passenger car and even the first modern NYC subway car which then influenced the BUDD RDC) than the others who spread their work over many other products from vacuum cleaners to industrial trademarks. W Jay W. Ps. Finally found a reasonably priced copy of Lenahan's Locomotive Lexicon and can't wait until it gets here from the Pacific Northwest! --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > I'm sure everyone has their favorite engine or engines but > when you talk streamlined steam I personally like the two 4-6-2 > Pacifics done by the Lehigh Valley. The Black Diamond and the John > Wilkes are not only a nice streamlined design but in my humble opinion > the red and black with the white stripes is awesome. Add a string of > similarly painted passenger cars makes it look better. Again to each > his own. > > Jim H > > > > > On 8/3/2011 9:21 AM, John H wrote: > > > > Denny, > > > > Gotta agree with you. The Lord and Lady Baltimore were arguably the > > best looking streamlined/semi-streamlined locomotives in the U.S. The > > Milwaukee Road's Hiawatha Atlantic's (Love the huge drivers and simple > > paint scheme) and the SP's GS series 4-8-4's (in black) were the only > > competition. All the others were either ungainly in proportion or over > > done to the point of not having the look of mechanical capability that > > steamers should have (whether it's there or not, as in the case of the > > Lady). > > > > Maybe it's because there were only those two, but I always had the > > yearns for them myself. > > > > John Hagen > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com>, > > Denny Anspach <danspach@> wrote: > > > > > > Jay writes- > > > > > > > .... I picked up what seems to be a Custom Brass boiler/cab and > > tender assembly (no chassis or tender underframe) for the B&O Lord > > Baltimore Pacific and only did some limited research on it, finding it > > ran on the Royal Blue service into NJ for a brief period, (which is > > why it still is in the collection and looking for a suitable chassis > > for it). I had wondered about the reason behind the British influence > > on B&O. > > > > > > You have it almost exactly right (the LORD BALTIMORE was a 4-6-4, > > one of only four classes of Hudsons to have 7' driving wheels). It was > > an extremely handsome very striking locomotive, rivaled on the B&O > > only by its almost identical but shorter sister, the 4-4-4 LADY > > BALTIMORE. Both LORD and LADY were very British-looking aside from the > > delicate boiler tube (strap steel?) pilots. Unfortunately, their great > > looks were not matched by stellar performance, both being too light on > > their feet to be judged successful. > > > > > > If memory serves, the LORD spent the greater part of its working > > existence on the Chicago & Alton's ABRAHAM LINCOLN Chicago-St. Louis > > (the C&A was owned/controlled by the B&O). > > > > > > I have always had the "I wants" when it comes to models of these > > engines. > > > > > > Denny > > > > > > Denny S. Anspach, MD > > > Okoboji, Iowa > > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17141	From: Denny Anspach	Date: 8/5/2011
Subject: Re: Graham-Fairish King George V: Was- Um Jim or one of you fella's-

The B&O's British-patterned locomotives were matched in simple beauty by several of the Reading's pacifics (NOT the Crusader locomotives), each of which had all piping hidden beneath clean complete lagging, cap stacks, recessed headlights and air compressors tucked between the frame halves. Given the close affinity that the Reading had with the B&O, I have always suspected that these incredibly graceful locomotives were heavily influenced by the B&O's Mt. Clare products. Mention has also been made of Loree's very British looking D&H pacifics (not so graceful, but not bad), and the far more handsome 4-8-4s and 4-6-6-4s that had cap stacks, delicate boiler tube pilots, and recessed centered headlights. Loree's experimental high pressure locomotives also had many British features. The opinion expressed about Otto Kuhler's work as being the work of a person who loved steam locomotives is correct. Loewy was very commercial, his railroad work only a stepping stone to the wider commercial world in which he was seeking recognition. Dreyfuss's finest work was his treatment of the 1938 20th CENTURY LIMITED which for a number of reasons is generally considered to be the most successful of all streamlined steam locomotives (I agree!). Dreyfuss himself was dismayed by the success of this locomotive (and its spectacular direct derivative EMPIRE STATE EXPRESS) because it turned out to be a serious distraction from other lines of work that he fervently desired, but were apparently always elusive. I had a lively correspondance with Otto Kuhler in the last years of his life when he lived on his El Rancho Ferroequinologist (???) near Pueblo, CO, and his love of steam never left him. I was in the midst of purchasing one of his streamlined steam locomotive drawings when he died. I have been grateful just for knowing him, however so briefly. Denny Denny S. Anspach, MD Okoboji, Iowa

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17142	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 8/5/2011
Subject: Re: Graham-Fairish King George V: Was- Um Jim or one of you fella's-

There are 2 Kuhler designed streamlined steam locomotives that I am particularly fond of, the 1937 B&O Royal Blue Pacific, and the NYO&W Mountaineer Mountain. On Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 10:00 AM, Denny Anspach <danspach@...> wrote:   The B&O's British-patterned locomotives were matched in simple beauty by several of the Reading's pacifics (NOT the Crusader locomotives), each of which had all piping hidden beneath clean complete lagging, cap stacks, recessed headlights and air compressors tucked between the frame halves. Given the close affinity that the Reading had with the B&O, I have always suspected that these incredibly graceful locomotives were heavily influenced by the B&O's Mt. Clare products. Mention has also been made of Loree's very British looking D&H pacifics (not so graceful, but not bad), and the far more handsome 4-8-4s and 4-6-6-4s that had cap stacks, delicate boiler tube pilots, and recessed centered headlights. Loree's experimental high pressure locomotives also had many British features. The opinion expressed about Otto Kuhler's work as being the work of a person who loved steam locomotives is correct. Loewy was very commercial, his railroad work only a stepping stone to the wider commercial world in which he was seeking recognition. Dreyfuss's finest work was his treatment of the 1938 20th CENTURY LIMITED which for a number of reasons is generally considered to be the most successful of all streamlined steam locomotives (I agree!). Dreyfuss himself was dismayed by the success of this locomotive (and its spectacular direct derivative EMPIRE STATE EXPRESS) because it turned out to be a serious distraction from other lines of work that he fervently desired, but were apparently always elusive. I had a lively correspondance with Otto Kuhler in the last years of his life when he lived on his El Rancho Ferroequinologist (???) near Pueblo, CO, and his love of steam never left him. I was in the midst of purchasing one of his streamlined steam locomotive drawings when he died. I have been grateful just for knowing him, however so briefly. Denny Denny S. Anspach, MD Okoboji, Iowa -- Regards, Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17143	From: hooligan	Date: 8/5/2011
Subject: Re: Graham-Fairish King George V: Was- Um Jim or one of you fella's-

I agree with you , thanks for sharing Denny . Henry H. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Denny Anspach <danspach@...> wrote: > > The B&O's British-patterned locomotives were matched in simple beauty by several of the Reading's pacifics (NOT the Crusader locomotives), each of which had all piping hidden beneath clean complete lagging, cap stacks, recessed headlights and air compressors tucked between the frame halves. Given the close affinity that the Reading had with the B&O, I have always suspected that these incredibly graceful locomotives were heavily influenced by the B&O's Mt. Clare products. > > Mention has also been made of Loree's very British looking D&H pacifics (not so graceful, but not bad), and the far more handsome 4-8-4s and 4-6-6-4s that had cap stacks, delicate boiler tube pilots, and recessed centered headlights. Loree's experimental high pressure locomotives also had many British features. > > The opinion expressed about Otto Kuhler's work as being the work of a person who loved steam locomotives is correct. Loewy was very commercial, his railroad work only a stepping stone to the wider commercial world in which he was seeking recognition. > > Dreyfuss's finest work was his treatment of the 1938 20th CENTURY LIMITED which for a number of reasons is generally considered to be the most successful of all streamlined steam locomotives (I agree!). Dreyfuss himself was dismayed by the success of this locomotive (and its spectacular direct derivative EMPIRE STATE EXPRESS) because it turned out to be a serious distraction from other lines of work that he fervently desired, but were apparently always elusive. > > I had a lively correspondance with Otto Kuhler in the last years of his life when he lived on his El Rancho Ferroequinologist (???) near Pueblo, CO, and his love of steam never left him. I was in the midst of purchasing one of his streamlined steam locomotive drawings when he died. I have been grateful just for knowing him, however so briefly. > > Denny > > > Denny S. Anspach, MD > Okoboji, Iowa >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17144	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 8/7/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers passenger car kits for sale

Well they look nice, I finally got to look at them.  Nice work. Take care,   Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of cwrailman Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2011 12:45 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Walthers passenger car kits for sale     Art,   Sorry to hear about your issues with LaBelle kits.  Personally, I have never had any problem with any of the LaBelle kits that I built but then my entire inventory of built and unbuilt LaBelle kits is over 25 years old or older with a few dating back to the early 60's so….    Photo's of some of my built LaBelle cars can be found at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/album/73154888/pic/list   My first LaBelle kit was a combine which I built in 1974 and brush painted and then decaled.  Then a string of three more pass cars were all built in 1975 and the private car was built in 1979.  All were airbrushed and decaled.  They have been in service since that time and except for broken brake wheels have given me no problems.   I believe you are confusing me with someone else as I do not recall receiving any decals from you.  But then my memory might be clouded by time and too many adult beverages.   Now on to the shops   Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com , luvprr@... wrote: > > Denny, > Good luck with the La Belle kits. I've stopped building them due to the > fact that several kits had pieces in each kit that were incorrect in size > (such as the roof), and cut inconsistently and at strange angles and generally > seemed to be packed by people with other things on their minds. Too bad, as > they do make a nice piece when built correctly. Rick at La Belle has been > cooperative in replacing parts and so on, but it's more than I want to deal > with anymore. Hope you were able to use the decals for CM&StP that I sent. > > Art W > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17145	From: Brandan	Date: 8/8/2011
Subject: Missing instructions

Gents, I recently got ahold of an interesting older kit from Centennial Models Inc. It's the Hercules Mining Stamp Mill #102 the instructions are missing and I was wondering if anyone out there may have some they could scan and email or snail mail to me. Any help or info is appreciated. Brandan Brauch bullbrauch@...

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17146	From: Denny Anspach	Date: 8/8/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers passenger car kits for sale

Denny, > Good luck with the La Belle kits. I've stopped building them due to the  > fact that several kits had pieces in each kit that were incorrect in size  > (such as the roof), and cut inconsistently and at strange angles and generally  > seemed to be packed by people with other things on their minds. Too bad, as  > they do make a nice piece when built correctly. Rick at La Belle has been  > cooperative in replacing parts and so on, but it's more than I want to deal  > with anymore. Hope you were able to use the decals for CM&StP that I sent. >  > Art W I too have had *no*problems with LaBelle kits; they are very satisfying to build, and I love the results. The modeler had better be proficient in and understand modeling with wood before attempting to build and finish them, however. The principles are certainly not difficult or more than mildly challenging to learn and/or retain, but care and patience are required; and wood is not styrene.   I am the person that received the CM&StP decals. They are destined for one LaBelle coach, and one Parlor car-  both CM&StP prototypes. Denny   Denny S. Anspach, MD Okoboji, Iowa

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17147	From: cwrailman	Date: 8/8/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers passenger car kits for sale

I knew it wasn't me. And to think I almost stopped..... Well whatever, good to know I have not lost what is left of my little grey cells. Back to the shops, Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops Hope you were able to use the decals for CM&StP that I sent. > > > > > Art W > > I am the person that received the CM&StP decals. They are destined for one LaBelle coach, and one Parlor car- both CM&StP prototypes. > > Denny > > > Denny S. Anspach, MD > Okoboji, Iowa >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17148	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 8/8/2011
Subject: Unknown Make Japanese Built Metal and Plastic Cars

Group, Recently I bought some assorted lots of HO trains (Made between the 1940s and 1960s mostly). There are two cars I have absolutely no idea who made: First is a New Haven 40' boxcar. Roughly the size of a Varney sheet metal car. The sides are metal and have opening doors, and the deck, ends, roof, and seperate ladders are plastic. The underside of the deck is marked "Made in Japan". There is a screw in the center of the roof that screws the body together, via a boss in the doors. Truck sideframes are similar to Mantua, as is the truck bolsters. However, they are not Mantua. Couplers are X2F Horn-Hooks that use a screw-on coupler pocket that is oversize for Kadees to properly work, though I can replace the coupler box with a Kadee #5 and its box easily. The second is a light yellow PFE 40' steel reefer. The non-operating swing doors appear wider than scale. Otherwise overall same consturction as the boxcar. I would include a picture, but my camera needs batteries (Was meaning to go to the store today to buy some, but didn't have the time). I could include a picture sometime soon though. Any guesses on make. I don't think they are Tenshodo, as the instructions on HOseeker don't match what I have for the boxcar - Tenshodo's instructions show a seperate roofwalk and landing pads. Mine are cast into the roof. Thanks in advance! -Steve Neubaum

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17149	From: Jay	Date: 8/9/2011
Subject: Re: Unknown Make Japanese Built Metal and Plastic Cars

Hi Steve, Hard to say, but since your boxcars have a combination of metal sides and plastic floors, roof, ends, that eliminates the all stamped metal flat kits International brought in (construction similar to Athearn or Globe) as well as the Tenshodo kits or assembled cars (constructed similar to Varney's all metal line). International had a later line of "Ready Bilt"(sp) freight cars that are all cast metal, or at least the hopper and caboose I have are. I do have a New One gondola that is constructed of a combination of materials including black (tenite?) plastic sides, so possibly that reefer and boxcar were made by them. New One usually marked their name on an inconspicuous place in fine lettters on the inside parts of their freight or old time passenger cars: "New One." So look carefully inside that box car with a pen flashlight and see if you can find anything. I would also check those late 1950's International catalogs at HOSEEKER. That's the best I can do right now, but find those few early imported freight cars and kits to be an interesting part of my collection. W. Jay W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote: > > Group, > > Recently I bought some assorted lots of HO trains (Made between the 1940s and 1960s mostly). There are two cars I have absolutely no idea who made: > > First is a New Haven 40' boxcar. Roughly the size of a Varney sheet metal car. The sides are metal and have opening doors, and the deck, ends, roof, and seperate ladders are plastic. The underside of the deck is marked "Made in Japan". There is a screw in the center of the roof that screws the body together, via a boss in the doors. Truck sideframes are similar to Mantua, as is the truck bolsters. However, they are not Mantua. Couplers are X2F Horn-Hooks that use a screw-on coupler pocket that is oversize for Kadees to properly work, though I can replace the coupler box with a Kadee #5 and its box easily. > > The second is a light yellow PFE 40' steel reefer. The non-operating swing doors appear wider than scale. Otherwise overall same consturction as the boxcar. > > I would include a picture, but my camera needs batteries (Was meaning to go to the store today to buy some, but didn't have the time). I could include a picture sometime soon though. > > Any guesses on make. I don't think they are Tenshodo, as the instructions on HOseeker don't match what I have for the boxcar - Tenshodo's instructions show a seperate roofwalk and landing pads. Mine are cast into the roof. > > Thanks in advance! > -Steve Neubaum >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17150	From: Jay	Date: 8/9/2011
Subject: Re: Unknown Make Japanese Built Metal and Plastic Cars

Steve, as a follow up, just checked the International '54 catalog (freight cars beginning on HOSeeker page 5 or 6) and the '56 International(beginning on HO Seeker page 15) and while they had at least three different lines of freight cars (the familiar flat box stamped metal kits, an all brass assembled line and the cast metal "Kustom-Bilt" line (not "Redi-Bilt" as I mis-spoke) they seemd to stress "All Metal" construction and there are no combination metal and plastic freight cars cataloged in those two editions that I could find. There is not much information on New One in HO Seeker, and of the few instructions there, only one set of instructions (in the HOSeeker Misc. section) shows an all metal reefer, but those instructions look old, there could have been a later run as well. Hopefully someone with more information and knowledge can help. W Jay W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Jay" <the_plainsman@...> wrote: > > Hi Steve, > > Hard to say, but since your boxcars have a combination of metal sides and plastic floors, roof, ends, that eliminates the all stamped metal flat kits International brought in (construction similar to Athearn or Globe) as well as the Tenshodo kits or assembled cars (constructed similar to Varney's all metal line). International had a later line of "Ready Bilt"(sp) freight cars that are all cast metal, or at least the hopper and caboose I have are. > > I do have a New One gondola that is constructed of a combination of materials including black (tenite?) plastic sides, so possibly that reefer and boxcar were made by them. New One usually marked their name on an inconspicuous place in fine lettters on the inside parts of their freight or old time passenger cars: "New One." So look carefully inside that box car with a pen flashlight and see if you can find anything. I would also check those late 1950's International catalogs at HOSEEKER. > > That's the best I can do right now, but find those few early imported freight cars and kits to be an interesting part of my collection. > > W. Jay W. > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@> wrote: > > > > Group, > > > > Recently I bought some assorted lots of HO trains (Made between the 1940s and 1960s mostly). There are two cars I have absolutely no idea who made: > > > > First is a New Haven 40' boxcar. Roughly the size of a Varney sheet metal car. The sides are metal and have opening doors, and the deck, ends, roof, and seperate ladders are plastic. The underside of the deck is marked "Made in Japan". There is a screw in the center of the roof that screws the body together, via a boss in the doors. Truck sideframes are similar to Mantua, as is the truck bolsters. However, they are not Mantua. Couplers are X2F Horn-Hooks that use a screw-on coupler pocket that is oversize for Kadees to properly work, though I can replace the coupler box with a Kadee #5 and its box easily. > > > > The second is a light yellow PFE 40' steel reefer. The non-operating swing doors appear wider than scale. Otherwise overall same consturction as the boxcar. > > > > I would include a picture, but my camera needs batteries (Was meaning to go to the store today to buy some, but didn't have the time). I could include a picture sometime soon though. > > > > Any guesses on make. I don't think they are Tenshodo, as the instructions on HOseeker don't match what I have for the boxcar - Tenshodo's instructions show a seperate roofwalk and landing pads. Mine are cast into the roof. > > > > Thanks in advance! > > -Steve Neubaum > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17151	From: Nelson	Date: 8/9/2011
Subject: O.K. Streamliners

I just noticed a lot of 9 MIB 1965 O.K. streamliner kits on eBay, and I'm curious about them. It's not a brand I'm familiar with or seen discussed here, but the seller gives the company history, and claims they were sold up until 1997. From the literature at HOSeeker they must have partnered up with Athearn, judging by the hi-f diesels in some of their sets. Were they well made kits?

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17152	From: Jay	Date: 8/9/2011
Subject: Re: O.K. Streamliners

Hi Nelson, I guess we have discussed them recently, only bit by bit and not directly. Jim H. just a week or two ago told about missing out on one of their freight sets and I think parts availability was discussed last winter. This brief history is paraphrased from memory from the published history of OK Stremaliners, "Herkey Rides the Rails." The Herkimer line of extruded aluminum passenger cars began in the late 1940s under the Kasiner name. First full length cars, then shorty's were made. Cars were well detailed for the time, but had simple sheet aluminum ends; later trucks were introduced. Circa 1955, the inactive line was sold by Kasiner to OK Engines, the well know manufacturer of model airplane engines looking for a product that could be sold in winter to balance their line. It was Nat Polk who made the introductions. Now named OK Streamliners, they introduced colorful new window packaging, diecast ends & new trucks as the original Kasiner ones were lost and also began to compete in the train set field. They contracted with Athearn to supply locomotives and freight cars, which Athearn also supplied to other firms as well. Having renewed success, the line continued throught the 60's but suffered the same early 1960's slowdown and then when other business problems surfaced, it to sale of the line. The new owner had much smaller sales and acted as a sort of custodian. Remarkably, years later, the son of the original owner repurchased the line and spearheaded renewed sales, now aimed more at the train operator and collector market. Somewhere along the line, the original aluminum extrusion dies were changed, and both Pullman and Budd style cars were offered. The great part of the "OK" story is that they are still in business, and not only can you purchase complete cars, but they will also custom-punch any window pattern you want to match a specific prototype. The best part for us is that the original deatail parts are still available! http://www.okengines.com/ I had three "junker" "OK" shorty's, slathered with black roof paint and they were just taking up space, not worth restoring on their own merit - a baggage car, Astra-dome with crushed plastic dome and diner. Last fall, when I visited my friendly North Jersey brick and mortor hobby store, MRPO, where I leave plenty of green on modern models, I was greated with a stack of dusty, but otherwise new old stock vintage kits someone had dropped off "for adoption" at no charge. Found in the garage when a local, non modeler purchased his home years ago, finally cleaning out, but too good to throw out! Included were another OK shorty Astra-dome and a prized (to me!)round tailed opservation! Thanks to MRPO owner Ray Threllfall and counterman Bob, I now had a vest-pocket sreamliner consist and sent away for the missing pasrt for my junkers. We plan to use the train, with a silver painted Varney metal F-3 on an exhibit circle of track at our restored Township Railroad Station/Museum this holiday season, a train with almost 60 year old cars, still available today! Made in the USA, too! Funny thing is, those shiny aluminum "OK" shorty's, when coupled in a whole consist, look remarkably good! Will get a photo of the train posted here soon! W. Jay W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Nelson" <greenbrier614@...> wrote: > > I just noticed a lot of 9 MIB 1965 O.K. streamliner kits on eBay, and I'm curious about them. It's not a brand I'm familiar with or seen discussed here, but the seller gives the company history, and claims they were sold up until 1997. From the literature at HOSeeker they must have partnered up with Athearn, judging by the hi-f diesels in some of their sets. > > Were they well made kits? >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17153	From: John H	Date: 8/9/2011
Subject: Re: O.K. Streamliners

1997? They are alive and well today. Even have a website; http://okengines.com/products.shtml Ignore the "okengines" part, the trains are in the same site. They make several styles and lengths in HO and O. Or you can have them make cars per your order. So far as used cars, parts are still available also. Since all I have room for is a switching module, I have little use passenger cars. But I have wanted to try one of their cars for a long time. John Hagen --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Nelson" <greenbrier614@...> wrote: > > I just noticed a lot of 9 MIB 1965 O.K. streamliner kits on eBay, and I'm curious about them. It's not a brand I'm familiar with or seen discussed here, but the seller gives the company history, and claims they were sold up until 1997. From the literature at HOSeeker they must have partnered up with Athearn, judging by the hi-f diesels in some of their sets. > > Were they well made kits? >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17154	From: Jay	Date: 8/9/2011
Subject: Re: O.K. Streamliners has a company museum, too.

Nelson, and All, First, you asked if they were well made, and my answer is yes, very durable and strong, thouse the side fluting has a delicate scale appearance. The originals had 1/8" Masonite floos which slid into the extruded car body; floors now metal. Although I would not try it, I bet some have been stepped on with no ill effects except for the dome cars, LOL. I forgot to mention that "OK" maintains a company museum of their vintage models and sets that can be visited by appointment (Mohawk, NY), information on website. Has anyone here visited? W. Jay W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "John H" <sprinthag@...> wrote: > > 1997? They are alive and well today. Even have a website; > > http://okengines.com/products.shtml > > Ignore the "okengines" part, the trains are in the same site. > > They make several styles and lengths in HO and O. Or you can have them make cars per your order. So far as used cars, parts are still available also. > > Since all I have room for is a switching module, I have little use passenger cars. But I have wanted to try one of their cars for a long time. > > John Hagen > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Nelson" <greenbrier614@> wrote: > > > > I just noticed a lot of 9 MIB 1965 O.K. streamliner kits on eBay, and I'm curious about them. It's not a brand I'm familiar with or seen discussed here, but the seller gives the company history, and claims they were sold up until 1997. From the literature at HOSeeker they must have partnered up with Athearn, judging by the hi-f diesels in some of their sets. > > > > Were they well made kits? > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17155	From: Rich C	Date: 8/9/2011
Subject: Re: O.K. Streamliners

They were started by a company called Herkimer. They disappeared from the scene for awhile and started back up. As far as prototype fidelity, I am not certain, as the kits are undecorated now. I had a few of the originals at one time, those lacked many details. With todays super detail parts I am sure you can create a decent car.   http://www.okengines.com/main.shtml   Rich Christie   --- On Tue, 8/9/11, Nelson <greenbrier614@...> wrote: From: Nelson <greenbrier614@...> Subject: [vintageHO] O.K. Streamliners To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, August 9, 2011, 1:57 PM   I just noticed a lot of 9 MIB 1965 O.K. streamliner kits on eBay, and I'm curious about them. It's not a brand I'm familiar with or seen discussed here, but the seller gives the company history, and claims they were sold up until 1997. From the literature at HOSeeker they must have partnered up with Athearn, judging by the hi-f diesels in some of their sets. Were they well made kits?

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17156	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 8/9/2011
Subject: My New Project

Hi Guys! I started a project I tonight. The rough work is done, Now I clean the parts, paint the shell & chassis and assemble: http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/6027495230/in/photostream/   http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/6027495286/in/photostream/ I started with a Mantua 0-4-0 Booster steam loco which was missing the front steps. I used the front pilot truck, deck & steps from an Athearn light Mikado and the trailing truck from an Athearn Little Monster 0-4-2 steam locomotive. I will be adding the piping detail and a couple air tanks from the Athearn Mikado I have not yet decided if I want to add valve gear.  I plan to sell it on eBay, so I probably wont. I tend to keep the good stuff for myself.    Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17157	From: Nelson	Date: 8/9/2011
Subject: Re: O.K. Streamliners

Jay, Rich, all, thanks for the responses. Somehow I've missed the discussions, but you were discussing streamliners recently and that got me curious. Very cool that they are still in business, which is very rare for a 50's - 60's kit manufacturer. Here's the link to the auction where you can read the seller's history of Herkimer. I don't know what the going rate is, but his starting bid is $199. I was half expecting to find out he was someone on this list. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160633973247 Jay, I'm trying to figure out which station here in NJ you're talking about... is it Maywood? I'll have to come see them myself. Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Rich C <rhcdmc@...> wrote: > > They were started by a company called Herkimer. They disappeared from the scene for awhile and started back up. As far as prototype fidelity, I am not certain, as the kits are undecorated now. I had a few of the originals at one time, those lacked many details. With todays super detail parts I am sure you can create a decent car. >   > http://www.okengines.com/main.shtml >   > Rich Christie > Â

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17158	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 8/9/2011
Subject: Re: O.K. Streamliners

$ 199 for the set seems high as a starting bid. They could end that high, but generally they start around $ 5.00 to $ 10.00 each. I personally would never pay more than $ 15.00-$ 20.00 for one. They've been made almost continually for 50 years. there are a LOT of them out there, so they're FAR from "rare". You can still buy them brand new for $ 27.00 FULL LIST. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nelson" <greenbrier614@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2011 10:16 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: O.K. Streamliners Jay, Rich, all, thanks for the responses. Somehow I've missed the discussions, but you were discussing streamliners recently and that got me curious. Very cool that they are still in business, which is very rare for a 50's - 60's kit manufacturer. Here's the link to the auction where you can read the seller's history of Herkimer. I don't know what the going rate is, but his starting bid is $199. I was half expecting to find out he was someone on this list. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160633973247 Jay, I'm trying to figure out which station here in NJ you're talking about... is it Maywood? I'll have to come see them myself. Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Rich C <rhcdmc@...> wrote: > > They were started by a company called Herkimer. They disappeared from the > scene for awhile and started back up. As far as prototype fidelity, I am > not certain, as the kits are undecorated now. I had a few of the originals > at one time, those lacked many details. With todays super detail parts I > am sure you can create a decent car. >  > http://www.okengines.com/main.shtml >  > Rich Christie >  ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17159	From: Wobbly913	Date: 8/9/2011
Subject: Re: O.K. Streamliners

Here is a link to OK engines, which still makes the cars.  http://okengines.com/products.shtml There is a catalog at the link. They are sold as kits and can be bought assembled. I have a number of the cars, they pull well on my layout. Assembly is straight forward and requires little skill. It is my understanding that OK never made engines but used Athearn engines to make powered train sets. Don  Wobbly913 From: Nelson <greenbrier614@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, August 9, 2011 11:57 AM Subject: [vintageHO] O.K. Streamliners I just noticed a lot of 9 MIB 1965 O.K. streamliner kits on eBay, and I'm curious about them. It's not a brand I'm familiar with or seen discussed here, but the seller gives the company history, and claims they were sold up until 1997. From the literature at HOSeeker they must have partnered up with Athearn, judging by the hi-f diesels in some of their sets. Were they well made kits? ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings:     Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join     (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email:     vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com     vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:     vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17160	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 8/10/2011
Subject: Herkimer OK Streamliners History.

Just to add a little to the discussion about Herkimer / OK Steamliners and what W Jay W mentioned. Herkimer / OK Streamliners actually came from a company called Kasiners Hobbies of Rochester New York. Kasiners was producing the same basic cars , full size and shorties HO extruded cars , in their plant behind a hobby shop in front. They had a fire in 1950 that destroyed the most of production line and discontinued manufacturing their cars and becoming a wholesaler with a hobby shop in front.. I don't know how many know that Kasiner produced their own spring loaded passenger trucks and very good ones in 1949 that are different from the later Herkimer / OK Streamliner who bought Kasiner out. I have an advertisement with picture of these Kasiner trucks but haven't seen a real one. After Herkimer bought out Kasiner in 1954 they produced the same cars under the OK Streamliner name while also produingd O K Cub gasoline motors for airplane models. The owner today. T.R. (Ted ) Brebeck , is a third generation owner of Herkimer products. According to the new owner they celebrated there 60th of business in 1997 producing OK gasoline airplane engines and later OK Streamliners. Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17161	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 8/11/2011
Subject: identify

On 8/11/2011 9:21 AM, Jim Heckard wrote: > > > I have been losing out on a couple of auctions I had bid on but > finally came up winning one. I have no clue who made it or what it is > till it comes. If you go to #160632168199 HO Railroad Yard Work > Engine 1960's Vintage there are a number of good pictures from all > angles. I do see that the back of the cab on the left side is > separated but everything else is minor ( Paint, couplers, ) > > At first it looked a little like the American Flyer Jackshaft or > the Penn Line Whitcomb but neither close. The counter weights on the > end of the side rod on each driver might be a dead give away. The > seller said bought in Japan and the vertical motor gear set up looks a > lot like International. Any idea as to what it is and maker? > > > Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17162	From: Jay	Date: 8/11/2011
Subject: Re: identify

Hi Jim, A very neat little "critter!" As luck would have it my first copy of Lehnahan's Locomotive Lexicon (2nd revised edition, 1976) arrived today just before lunch and I have been studying it ever since. Seeing your new locomotive, something looked very familar to me, that round Number 3 plate on the side. It is the same etched brass # 3 plate that appears on the side of a similar diesel switcher shown at the bottom of page 63 of that edition of Lehahan's, though that very similar bodied diesel loco pictured has a plain sideframe and air cylinders on top of the hood. Comparing your new loco's uniquely shaped cab side window awnings with that pictured in the book, they are identical as well. I would hazard a guess that they were bult by the same manufacturer, yours being the more deluxe version with the siderods. Unfortunately, the model builder was unknown at the time of publication. Was a more recent edition of Lenahan's ever published? If so, maybe the manufacturer was ID'd there. Another thought is that many of those Japanese prototype electric locomotives imported around that 1960's period had similarly manufactured etched brass I.D. plates on their sides with the black painted backgrounds. Could that feature be traced to a specific manufacturer? A very nice find! W. Jay W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > On 8/11/2011 9:21 AM, Jim Heckard wrote: > > > > > > I have been losing out on a couple of auctions I had bid on but > > finally came up winning one. I have no clue who made it or what it is > > till it comes. If you go to #160632168199 HO Railroad Yard Work > > Engine 1960's Vintage there are a number of good pictures from all > > angles. I do see that the back of the cab on the left side is > > separated but everything else is minor ( Paint, couplers, ) > > > > At first it looked a little like the American Flyer Jackshaft or > > the Penn Line Whitcomb but neither close. The counter weights on the > > end of the side rod on each driver might be a dead give away. The > > seller said bought in Japan and the vertical motor gear set up looks a > > lot like International. Any idea as to what it is and maker? > > > > > > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17163	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 8/11/2011
Subject: Re: identify

W Jay W,                  My two volumes of Lenahan's Locomotive Lexicon are  Volume I & II  Revised Third addition 1980. First edition was published 1974. The page you cite ,63, must be different in my books. .  Page 63 in either one of my volumes I&II doesn't have the engine you talk about. I will have to go through my two volumes to see if I can find it on another page.     You asked about maybe a more recent edition then even the ones I have. Mr Lenahan was in the process or revising his lexicons again when he passed away. I had been corresponding with him and taking pictures of engines I had to put in the new edition. He was having me photograph according to his instructions.      I'll keep searching but your info will help.                                                                                 Jim H     On 8/11/2011 3:33 PM, Jay wrote:   Hi Jim, A very neat little "critter!" As luck would have it my first copy of Lehnahan's Locomotive Lexicon (2nd revised edition, 1976) arrived today just before lunch and I have been studying it ever since. Seeing your new locomotive, something looked very familar to me, that round Number 3 plate on the side. It is the same etched brass # 3 plate that appears on the side of a similar diesel switcher shown at the bottom of page 63 of that edition of Lehahan's, though that very similar bodied diesel loco pictured has a plain sideframe and air cylinders on top of the hood. Comparing your new loco's uniquely shaped cab side window awnings with that pictured in the book, they are identical as well. I would hazard a guess that they were bult by the same manufacturer, yours being the more deluxe version with the siderods. Unfortunately, the model builder was unknown at the time of publication. Was a more recent edition of Lenahan's ever published? If so, maybe the manufacturer was ID'd there. Another thought is that many of those Japanese prototype electric locomotives imported around that 1960's period had similarly manufactured etched brass I.D. plates on their sides with the black painted backgrounds. Could that feature be traced to a specific manufacturer? A very nice find! W. Jay W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > On 8/11/2011 9:21 AM, Jim Heckard wrote: > > > > > > I have been losing out on a couple of auctions I had bid on but > > finally came up winning one. I have no clue who made it or what it is > > till it comes. If you go to #160632168199 HO Railroad Yard Work > > Engine 1960's Vintage there are a number of good pictures from all > > angles. I do see that the back of the cab on the left side is > > separated but everything else is minor ( Paint, couplers, ) > > > > At first it looked a little like the American Flyer Jackshaft or > > the Penn Line Whitcomb but neither close. The counter weights on the > > end of the side rod on each driver might be a dead give away. The > > seller said bought in Japan and the vertical motor gear set up looks a > > lot like International. Any idea as to what it is and maker? > > > > > > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17164	From: Jay	Date: 8/11/2011
Subject: Re: identify

Hi Jim H. The illustration I found was contained in a Miscellaneous section on page 65 with photos top to bottom of a KWR Japanese electric, Mantua/Tyco 0-4-0T, HO Train Co. 0-4-0 "Mother Hubbard" then side by side at the bottom, twio entries "from the Bill Dohm collection" a 2-6-2T imported by Kidder and what seems to be a cousin of your switcher. Likely Lenehan revised the whole page in the later edition. If your 1980 edition does not have that photo, I will see if I can make a copy and send it to you tomorrow - no scanner here. Sorry to hear he passed away as he did not yet look 40 in the photos in the 1976 edition. I will continue to see if I can find the 1980 of the Lexicon, but happy I found the older one as have learned some new information from it already. W. Jay W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > W Jay W, > > My two volumes of Lenahan's Locomotive Lexicon are > Volume I & II Revised Third addition 1980. First edition was published > 1974. The page you cite ,63, must be different in my books. . Page 63 > in either one of my volumes I&II doesn't have the engine you talk about. > I will have to go through my two volumes to see if I can find it on > another page. > > You asked about maybe a more recent edition then even the ones I > have. Mr Lenahan was in the process or revising his lexicons again when > he passed away. I had been corresponding with him and taking pictures of > engines I had to put in the new edition. He was having me photograph > according to his instructions. > > I'll keep searching but your info will help. > > > Jim H > > > > > > On 8/11/2011 3:33 PM, Jay wrote: > > > > Hi Jim, > > > > A very neat little "critter!" As luck would have it my first copy of > > Lehnahan's Locomotive Lexicon (2nd revised edition, 1976) arrived > > today just before lunch and I have been studying it ever since. > > > > Seeing your new locomotive, something looked very familar to me, that > > round Number 3 plate on the side. It is the same etched brass # 3 > > plate that appears on the side of a similar diesel switcher shown at > > the bottom of page 63 of that edition of Lehahan's, though that very > > similar bodied diesel loco pictured has a plain sideframe and air > > cylinders on top of the hood. > > > > Comparing your new loco's uniquely shaped cab side window awnings with > > that pictured in the book, they are identical as well. I would hazard > > a guess that they were bult by the same manufacturer, yours being the > > more deluxe version with the siderods. Unfortunately, the model > > builder was unknown at the time of publication. > > > > Was a more recent edition of Lenahan's ever published? If so, maybe > > the manufacturer was ID'd there. > > > > Another thought is that many of those Japanese prototype electric > > locomotives imported around that 1960's period had similarly > > manufactured etched brass I.D. plates on their sides with the black > > painted backgrounds. Could that feature be traced to a specific > > manufacturer? > > > > A very nice find! > > > > W. Jay W. > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com>, > > Jim Heckard <jimheck@> wrote: > > > > > > On 8/11/2011 9:21 AM, Jim Heckard wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I have been losing out on a couple of auctions I had bid on but > > > > finally came up winning one. I have no clue who made it or what it is > > > > till it comes. If you go to #160632168199 HO Railroad Yard Work > > > > Engine 1960's Vintage there are a number of good pictures from all > > > > angles. I do see that the back of the cab on the left side is > > > > separated but everything else is minor ( Paint, couplers, ) > > > > > > > > At first it looked a little like the American Flyer Jackshaft or > > > > the Penn Line Whitcomb but neither close. The counter weights on the > > > > end of the side rod on each driver might be a dead give away. The > > > > seller said bought in Japan and the vertical motor gear set up > > looks a > > > > lot like International. Any idea as to what it is and maker? > > > > > > > > > > > > Jim H > > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17165	From: cwrailman	Date: 8/11/2011
Subject: Westwood Passenger Cars

I posted several images of built Westwood cars for those of you who have never seen what they look like when built. I was using them to check clearances on a passenger station I am building and they just got in the way of the camera. They are the last two images in my photo album. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/album/73154888/pic/list Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17166	From: Jay	Date: 8/12/2011
Subject: Re: Westwood Passenger Cars

Hi Denny (CW Railman), Nice to see some Westwoods built, and done so well. I also want to complement you on the many other excellent models you have built and pictured in the album as I had neglected to do so when the LaBelle kits were mentioned a short while ago and I had first checked your album. They are beautifully complete and appear more as miniature prototypes and not models! Back to Westood, I remember when their kits were first introduced and sent for a sample parts package and built up about a 10' side wall section which I think is still kicking around in a scrap box. I then wanted to model an Erie wood coach from plans in my dad's 1942 MR Cyclopedia and began pricing out the modular parts which would have produced a unique model, but alas, the cost was simply too much for a young teen with about a $5 a month model budget! It would have been a positive move for the hobby if someone like Grandt Line or Tichy were able to obtain the Westwood injection dies and simply continue offering the parts as a low volume item alongside their more popular parts. (Similar to how Tichy has now re-introduced the old Dimi-trains detailed plastic N scale car and structure kits). I wonder what happened to those Westwood dies, likely now scrapped or rusted away into oblivian in someones basement or garage. Thankfully, some of the old craftman kit and part lines have survived like LaBelle and now, Red Ball. Seeing your "Willie Walthers" car completed has remined me to get that blue paint to move my Williamstown Jct. version done. The car's color scheme is not one of my favorites, but that WW mascot and the Walthers name itself is a big part of our hobby's history and the car deserves to join that small consist of special advertising and commemorative models. Again, great (and an inspiration) to see your models and excellent craftmanship. W. Jay W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "cwrailman" <cwrailman@...> wrote: > > I posted several images of built Westwood cars for those of you who have never seen what they look like when built. I was using them to check clearances on a passenger station I am building and they just got in the way of the camera. They are the last two images in my photo album. > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/album/73154888/pic/list > > Denny > Janitor in Training > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17167	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 8/12/2011
Subject: Re: Westwood Passenger Cars

Denny, I like the GIANT Santa!   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: cwrailman <cwrailman@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 12, 2011 2:40 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Westwood Passenger Cars   I posted several images of built Westwood cars for those of you who have never seen what they look like when built. I was using them to check clearances on a passenger station I am building and they just got in the way of the camera. They are the last two images in my photo album. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/album/73154888/pic/list Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17168	From: Jay	Date: 8/12/2011
Subject: Re: Richard White's Red Ball car photo album

Hi Richard W., Belated complements on your craftsmanship as demonstrated in your Red Ball album posted earlier this year while I was off-line. Red Ball kits, along with finding a "mystery" cast bronze Alco High Hood switcher (later ID'd as a circa 1938-early 1940's Walthers) at a local train show, were the two motivations that propelled me into becoming an active vintage HO modeler and collector well over a deacde ago. Your photos were a joy to scroll though, and in fact, I had never seen a few of the reefers and boxcars in full color before! Wow! In one of your later posts, you had asked about a prototype match for the Red Ball Rotary Snow Plow. Most of the Leslie patent plows were built by Alco's Danforth & Cooke plant in Paterson, NJ as that plant was too small in its later days for large locomotive production (and was not adjacent to a rail line, either!) A very close, but not exact prototype for the Red Ball model are the Erie's two rotary plows, here is a link to a drawing from their 1913 equipment diagram book posted on Geo. Eastwood's fallen Flags website. http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/el/frt/eeb-055a.gif I would hazard a guess that we might be able to determine the exact match of the Red Ball Rotary model to a specific prototype by referring to the source documents that M. Dale Newton used for most of his models, the prototype Car Builders Cyclopedias. Some of his ads and comments in the model press at the time of the disasterous fire in Medford Oregon note the loss of his copies of the Cyc and that he was trying to replace them. A look through the Train Shed Cyc reprints often turns up the exact prototypes he patterned a model from, and the models are acurate to those prototype drawings, rivet by rivet, something only later achieved by Al Westerfield's resin kit models 35 plus years later, then by others. Right now, I have two versions of the Guzlit Beer reefer under slow construction, the original card sided version produced by M. Dale Newton and the later, beautifully silk screened wood sided version, produced by Merle Rice. Some Red Ball trivia on the Guzlit Beer reefer: In his last RB catalog, Howell Day liked that model too, and noting the image somewhat resembled him, quipped "How did I get in here?" The Guzlit model itself gives a clue as to who the original artist was who did the intricate design work on those sides. Note the name on the car sides that produced the fictitious Guzlit beer: "Pire, McNab & Simon Brewing Co." It was likely Bill Pire, an "Espee hogger" who did the artwork for Newton on a few of the late 1940's Red Ball reefers and was so credited in RB newsletters. Last trivia regarding Guzlit Beer: Kadee's Micro-Trains reproduced the Guzlit car design on a limited run N scale model and that might have been a years later tribute to Newton, as the Edward's brothers relocted from California to Medford, Oregon in the mid 1950's while Newton was still operating Red Ball in that small town. Again, thanks for posting those photos of your wonderfully built Red Ball models and look forward to seeing more! W. Jay W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "toytrain13" <toytrain13@...> wrote: > > Hi guys- I've just posted the "Richard's Red Ball Cars" folder in the Photos section. This folder shows the cars I've constructed from kits over the past two years. I have five more Red Ball kits waiting for the paint shop, when warmer weather arrives. I also have a completed Red Ball wrecking crane awaiting "stringing." > I once had a dozen kits I'd ordered from Howell Day in the sixties, and never constructed, and later sold. I got back into Red Ball when a friend brought a few kits to a TCA meeting and I bought a few. He had other Red Ball kits at home, and I arranged to buy all of them- about fifty, and I've been building them ever since. > Check out the folder! > Regards- Richard White >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17169	From: cwrailman	Date: 8/12/2011
Subject: Re: Richard White's Red Ball car photo album

Richard, Nice clean workmanship on those Red Ball cars. I don't know how I missed you original post but I am pleased it was brought to my attention again. I see you used plywood backing for some of the reefer cars. Nice idea. Have you had any issues with any of the old metal parts? In building the kits, except for trucks and couplers, do you use any components that were not originally included in the kit? What is the main glue that you use? Do you have any problems matching the original paint colors? Again, nice work! Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "toytrain13" <toytrain13@...> wrote: > > Hi guys- I've just posted the "Richard's Red Ball Cars" folder in the Photos section. This folder shows the cars I've constructed from kits over the past two years. I have five more Red Ball kits waiting for the paint shop, when warmer weather arrives. I also have a completed Red Ball wrecking crane awaiting "stringing." > I once had a dozen kits I'd ordered from Howell Day in the sixties, and never constructed, and later sold. I got back into Red Ball when a friend brought a few kits to a TCA meeting and I bought a few. He had other Red Ball kits at home, and I arranged to buy all of them- about fifty, and I've been building them ever since. > Check out the folder! > Regards- Richard White >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17170	From: Nelson	Date: 8/12/2011
Subject: Re: identify

Looks like a Ken Kidder design to me. The wheels and counterweights, the vertical motor with the worm driving the rear axle, and the stamped brass construction are all Kidder hallmarks. Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > On 8/11/2011 9:21 AM, Jim Heckard wrote: > > > > > > I have been losing out on a couple of auctions I had bid on but > > finally came up winning one. I have no clue who made it or what it is > > till it comes. If you go to #160632168199 HO Railroad Yard Work > > Engine 1960's Vintage there are a number of good pictures from all > > angles. I do see that the back of the cab on the left side is > > separated but everything else is minor ( Paint, couplers, ) > > > > At first it looked a little like the American Flyer Jackshaft or > > the Penn Line Whitcomb but neither close. The counter weights on the > > end of the side rod on each driver might be a dead give away. The > > seller said bought in Japan and the vertical motor gear set up looks a > > lot like International. Any idea as to what it is and maker? > > > > > > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17171	From: Wally	Date: 8/12/2011
Subject: Motive Power Model Hobbies

I recently acquired one "Motive Power Model Hobbies" kit and one "Commercial Model Hobbies", both for Pennsylvania X-23 boxcars. The address, New Cumberland, Pa shown on both boxes certainly suggests that both firms are the same. The company name is typed but the address is printed. The car type appears to be printed with a rubber stamp. The kits originally sold for $1.25 each. Both kits are typical of what I remember of early 1950s with wood construction with a couple of die cast parts. The picture of the finished car in the instruction sheet shows it equipped with Mantua loop couplers. I plan to build both, as close to original as I can except for trucks and Kadee couplers. Can anyone shed more light on this manufacturer? Thanks! Wally

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17172	From: Jay	Date: 8/12/2011
Subject: Re: Motive Power Model Hobbies

Hi Wally, Although I've seen an ad or two in the old magazines, have never seen the actual kit or assembled model. I believe the company finally shortened their name to Model Hobbies and they became well known for their prototypical wod structure kits sold through at least the 1970's. I think they began in the late 1940's and the X-23 boxcars were a very early product, but will defer to those with more information. The illustrated instruction sheet from HOSEEKER just has the later Model Hobbies name: http://www.hoseeker.org/modelhobbies/modelhobbiesx23boxcarpg1.jpg Good luck with your great find! W. Jay W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Wally" <dim01521@...> wrote: > > I recently acquired one "Motive Power Model Hobbies" kit and one "Commercial Model Hobbies", both for Pennsylvania X-23 boxcars. The address, New Cumberland, Pa shown on both boxes certainly suggests that both firms are the same. The company name is typed but the address is printed. The car type appears to be printed with a rubber stamp. The kits originally sold for $1.25 each. > > Both kits are typical of what I remember of early 1950s with wood construction with a couple of die cast parts. The picture of the finished car in the instruction sheet shows it equipped with Mantua loop couplers. > > I plan to build both, as close to original as I can except for trucks and Kadee couplers. > > Can anyone shed more light on this manufacturer? > > Thanks! > > Wally >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17173	From: RalphB	Date: 8/13/2011
Subject: Re: Motive Power Model Hobbies

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, W. Jay W. wrote: > > I believe the company finally shortened their name to Model Hobbies and they became well known for their prototypical wod structure kits sold through at least the 1970's. --------------------- I have their farm house kit, #549, that my wife gave me as a Christmas present back in 1970. I got as far as putting the scribed wood for the floor onto a piece of thin plywood. I was doing more railfanning than modeling back then, but I never got rid of the kit. I have a note in my computerized inventory that the company went out of business in 1990; don't know where I got that bit of information. Ralph Balfoort

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17174	From: ocalicreek	Date: 8/13/2011
Subject: Re: My New Project

Is that the gritty beginnings of zinc rot on the top of the boiler? Nice 2-4-2 adaptation. I seem to remember a similar conversion advertised in an issue of Model Trains, but the starting point was a Ken Kidder brass engine. Looks good so far! Galen --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > Hi Guys! > > I started a project I tonight. The rough work is done, Now I clean the parts, paint the shell & chassis and assemble: > > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/6027495230/in/photostream/ >   > http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/6027495286/in/photostream/ > > > I started with a Mantua 0-4-0 Booster steam loco which was missing the front steps. I used the front pilot truck, deck & steps from an Athearn light Mikado and the trailing truck from an Athearn Little Monster 0-4-2 steam locomotive. > > I will be adding the piping detail and a couple air tanks from the Athearn Mikado > > I have not yet decided if I want to add valve gear.  I plan to sell it on eBay, so I probably wont. I tend to keep the good stuff for myself.  > >   > Sean > > > "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17175	From: ocalicreek	Date: 8/13/2011
Subject: Re: Westwood Passenger Cars

Denny, A beautiful paint scheme! I am planning something similar, only reversed, for some of my shorty Sierra cars. Are those CV trucks? Galen --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "cwrailman" <cwrailman@...> wrote: > > I posted several images of built Westwood cars for those of you who have never seen what they look like when built. I was using them to check clearances on a passenger station I am building and they just got in the way of the camera. They are the last two images in my photo album. > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/album/73154888/pic/list > > Denny > Janitor in Training > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17176	From: cwrailman	Date: 8/13/2011
Subject: Re: Westwood Passenger Cars

Galen, To answer you question, yes those are Central Valley trucks. I forgot which car has a rather early/old pair but they both are CV. As far as the color scheme. I find that to get a successful multi color paint scheme you really need to paint the individual components prior to assembly. Otherwise no matter how carefully you mask the car you will still be able to see some over spray areas. The method of assembly kind of dictated the color separations but yes, it could easily be reversed. I have loaded two more images into my photo album which appear at the end: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/album/73154888/pic/list These two images show a similar paint scheme I applied to a LaBelle combine back in the late 1970's. My friend took a liking to that car and since I had not been running it I gave it to him as a gift. When I was a member of the Lake Shore club in Chicago I would run this car at the end of a local mixed freight with Santa on the back platform. Now back to the shops, Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "ocalicreek" <ggallimore@...> wrote: > > Denny, > > A beautiful paint scheme! I am planning something similar, only reversed, for some of my shorty Sierra cars. > > Are those CV trucks? > > Galen >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17177	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 8/13/2011
Subject: Re: My New Project

Hi Galen, No. I sand blasted the shell about a year or so ago with the plans then to do something like this. That is the light dimpling look caused by the blasting.   Thanks. I plan to do more on it this weekend. Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: ocalicreek <ggallimore@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2011 11:45 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: My New Project   Is that the gritty beginnings of zinc rot on the top of the boiler? Nice 2-4-2 adaptation. I seem to remember a similar conversion advertised in an issue of Model Trains, but the starting point was a Ken Kidder brass engine. Looks good so far! Galen --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > Hi Guys! > > I started a project I tonight. The rough work is done, Now I clean the parts, paint the shell & chassis and assemble: > > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/6027495230/in/photostream/ >   > http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/6027495286/in/photostream/ > > > I started with a Mantua 0-4-0 Booster steam loco which was missing the front steps. I used the front pilot truck, deck & steps from an Athearn light Mikado and the trailing truck from an Athearn Little Monster 0-4-2 steam locomotive. > > I will be adding the piping detail and a couple air tanks from the Athearn Mikado > > I have not yet decided if I want to add valve gear.  I plan to sell it on eBay, so I probably wont. I tend to keep the good stuff for myself.  > >   > Sean > > > "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17178	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 8/13/2011
Subject: Re: Unknown Make Japanese Built Metal and Plastic Cars

Attachments : japan_pfe_reefer_truck.jpg japan_pfe_reefer.jpg japan_nh_boxcar_boss.jpg japan_nh_boxcar.jpg Jay, Thanks for your help. All, I got my camera going again and am attaching some pics of the cars. Look familiar to anyone? Seems there has been some interesting discussions over the years of the early Japanese imports! -Steve Neubaum From: Jay <the_plainsman@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, August 9, 2011 9:45 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Unknown Make Japanese Built Metal and Plastic Cars   Steve, as a follow up, just checked the International '54 catalog (freight cars beginning on HOSeeker page 5 or 6) and the '56 International(beginning on HO Seeker page 15) and while they had at least three different lines of freight cars (the familiar flat box stamped metal kits, an all brass assembled line and the cast metal "Kustom-Bilt" line (not "Redi-Bilt" as I mis-spoke) they seemd to stress "All Metal" construction and there are no combination metal and plastic freight cars cataloged in those two editions that I could find. There is not much information on New One in HO Seeker, and of the few instructions there, only one set of instructions (in the HOSeeker Misc. section) shows an all metal reefer, but those instructions look old, there could have been a later run as well. Hopefully someone with more information and knowledge can help. W Jay W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Jay" <the_plainsman@...> wrote: > > Hi Steve, > > Hard to say, but since your boxcars have a combination of metal sides and plastic floors, roof, ends, that eliminates the all stamped metal flat kits International brought in (construction similar to Athearn or Globe) as well as the Tenshodo kits or assembled cars (constructed similar to Varney's all metal line). International had a later line of "Ready Bilt"(sp) freight cars that are all cast metal, or at least the hopper and caboose I have are. > > I do have a New One gondola that is constructed of a combination of materials including black (tenite?) plastic sides, so possibly that reefer and boxcar were made by them. New One usually marked their name on an inconspicuous place in fine lettters on the inside parts of their freight or old time passenger cars: "New One." So look carefully inside that box car with a pen flashlight and see if you can find anything. I would also check those late 1950's International catalogs at HOSEEKER. > > That's the best I can do right now, but find those few early imported freight cars and kits to be an interesting part of my collection. > > W. Jay W. > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@> wrote: > > > > Group, > > > > Recently I bought some assorted lots of HO trains (Made between the 1940s and 1960s mostly). There are two cars I have absolutely no idea who made: > > > > First is a New Haven 40' boxcar. Roughly the size of a Varney sheet metal car. The sides are metal and have opening doors, and the deck, ends, roof, and seperate ladders are plastic. The underside of the deck is marked "Made in Japan". There is a screw in the center of the roof that screws the body together, via a boss in the doors. Truck sideframes are similar to Mantua, as is the truck bolsters. However, they are not Mantua. Couplers are X2F Horn-Hooks that use a screw-on coupler pocket that is oversize for Kadees to properly work, though I can replace the coupler box with a Kadee #5 and its box easily. > > > > The second is a light yellow PFE 40' steel reefer. The non-operating swing doors appear wider than scale. Otherwise overall same consturction as the boxcar. > > > > I would include a picture, but my camera needs batteries (Was meaning to go to the store today to buy some, but didn't have the time). I could include a picture sometime soon though. > > > > Any guesses on make. I don't think they are Tenshodo, as the instructions on HOseeker don't match what I have for the boxcar - Tenshodo's instructions show a seperate roofwalk and landing pads. Mine are cast into the roof. > > > > Thanks in advance! > > -Steve Neubaum > > >

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 17179	From: Larry	Date: 8/14/2011
Subject: Re: O.K. Streamliners

Sorry about the late reply, but I am way behind on my e-mails.   I have several of the cars. They were easy to assemble, well made (mostly of extruded aluminum) and I run them under the Christmas tree every year since the 1980's. Mine came with a frosted white window material and interior lights. I pack them back in the original boxes every year for storage.   Larry Miller III From: Nelson <greenbrier614@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, August 9, 2011 1:57 PM Subject: [vintageHO] O.K. Streamliners I just noticed a lot of 9 MIB 1965 O.K. streamliner kits on eBay, and I'm curious about them. It's not a brand I'm familiar with or seen discussed here, but the seller gives the company history, and claims they were sold up until 1997. From the literature at HOSeeker they must have partnered up with Athearn, judging by the hi-f diesels in some of their sets. Were they well made kits? ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings:     Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join     (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email:     vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com     vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:     vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17180	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 8/14/2011
Subject: Re: My New Project

Hi Galen! Here is the finished project. I bench tested it and it runs well. I think the trucks will need to be spring weighted in order to maintain steady rolling on the track. http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/6043242954/in/photostream Sean From: ocalicreek <ggallimore@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2011 11:45 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: My New Project   Is that the gritty beginnings of zinc rot on the top of the boiler? Nice 2-4-2 adaptation. I seem to remember a similar conversion advertised in an issue of Model Trains, but the starting point was a Ken Kidder brass engine. Looks good so far! Galen --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > Hi Guys! > > I started a project I tonight. The rough work is done, Now I clean the parts, paint the shell & chassis and assemble: > > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/6027495230/in/photostream/ >   > http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/6027495286/in/photostream/ > > > I started with a Mantua 0-4-0 Booster steam loco which was missing the front steps. I used the front pilot truck, deck & steps from an Athearn light Mikado and the trailing truck from an Athearn Little Monster 0-4-2 steam locomotive. > > I will be adding the piping detail and a couple air tanks from the Athearn Mikado > > I have not yet decided if I want to add valve gear.  I plan to sell it on eBay, so I probably wont. I tend to keep the good stuff for myself.  > >   > Sean > > > "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17181	From: tom leen	Date: 8/14/2011
Subject: Re: My New Project

Hey Sean, That came out awesome. Tom --- On Sun, 8/14/11, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: From: Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: My New Project To: "vintageHO@yahoogroups.com" <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Date: Sunday, August 14, 2011, 9:54 PM   Hi Galen! Here is the finished project. I bench tested it and it runs well. I think the trucks will need to be spring weighted in order to maintain steady rolling on the track. http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/6043242954/in/photostream Sean From: ocalicreek <ggallimore@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2011 11:45 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: My New Project   Is that the gritty beginnings of zinc rot on the top of the boiler? Nice 2-4-2 adaptation. I seem to remember a similar conversion advertised in an issue of Model Trains, but the starting point was a Ken Kidder brass engine. Looks good so far! Galen --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > Hi Guys! > > I started a project I tonight. The rough work is done, Now I clean the parts, paint the shell & chassis and assemble: > > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/6027495230/in/photostream/ >   > http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/6027495286/in/photostream/ > > > I started with a Mantua 0-4-0 Booster steam loco which was missing the front steps. I used the front pilot truck, deck & steps from an Athearn light Mikado and the trailing truck from an Athearn Little Monster 0-4-2 steam locomotive. > > I will be adding the piping detail and a couple air tanks from the Athearn Mikado > > I have not yet decided if I want to add valve gear.  I plan to sell it on eBay, so I probably wont. I tend to keep the good stuff for myself.  > >   > Sean > > > "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17182	From: Richard White	Date: 8/14/2011
Subject: Re: Richard White's Red Ball car photo album

Hi Jay- Thanks for your comments on my Red Ball album. I agree that the Erie rotary snow plows are very close to the Red Ball version, and I'd have lettered mine accordingly, BUT, I had given up and gone ahead and lettered for the NYC. I'll get around to adding a photo to my Red Ball album soon. I made a few improvements to my snowplow: (1) I added a boiler backhead at the open (rear) end (2) I made the "wing" attachment substantially sturdier, and (3) I attached the underbody "plow" with 1-72 screws, instead of glue. Regards- Richard White   To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: the_plainsman@... Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2011 14:08:58 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Richard White's Red Ball car photo album   Hi Richard W., Belated complements on your craftsmanship as demonstrated in your Red Ball album posted earlier this year while I was off-line. Red Ball kits, along with finding a "mystery" cast bronze Alco High Hood switcher (later ID'd as a circa 1938-early 1940's Walthers) at a local train show, were the two motivations that propelled me into becoming an active vintage HO modeler and collector well over a deacde ago. Your photos were a joy to scroll though, and in fact, I had never seen a few of the reefers and boxcars in full color before! Wow! In one of your later posts, you had asked about a prototype match for the Red Ball Rotary Snow Plow. Most of the Leslie patent plows were built by Alco's Danforth & Cooke plant in Paterson, NJ as that plant was too small in its later days for large locomotive production (and was not adjacent to a rail line, either!) A very close, but not exact prototype for the Red Ball model are the Erie's two rotary plows, here is a link to a drawing from their 1913 equipment diagram book posted on Geo. Eastwood's fallen Flags website. http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/el/frt/eeb-055a.gif I would hazard a guess that we might be able to determine the exact match of the Red Ball Rotary model to a specific prototype by referring to the source documents that M. Dale Newton used for most of his models, the prototype Car Builders Cyclopedias. Some of his ads and comments in the model press at the time of the disasterous fire in Medford Oregon note the loss of his copies of the Cyc and that he was trying to replace them. A look through the Train Shed Cyc reprints often turns up the exact prototypes he patterned a model from, and the models are acurate to those prototype drawings, rivet by rivet, something only later achieved by Al Westerfield's resin kit models 35 plus years later, then by others. Right now, I have two versions of the Guzlit Beer reefer under slow construction, the original card sided version produced by M. Dale Newton and the later, beautifully silk screened wood sided version, produced by Merle Rice. Some Red Ball trivia on the Guzlit Beer reefer: In his last RB catalog, Howell Day liked that model too, and noting the image somewhat resembled him, quipped "How did I get in here?" The Guzlit model itself gives a clue as to who the original artist was who did the intricate design work on those sides. Note the name on the car sides that produced the fictitious Guzlit beer: "Pire, McNab & Simon Brewing Co." It was likely Bill Pire, an "Espee hogger" who did the artwork for Newton on a few of the late 1940's Red Ball reefers and was so credited in RB newsletters. Last trivia regarding Guzlit Beer: Kadee's Micro-Trains reproduced the Guzlit car design on a limited run N scale model and that might have been a years later tribute to Newton, as the Edward's brothers relocted from California to Medford, Oregon in the mid 1950's while Newton was still operating Red Ball in that small town. Again, thanks for posting those photos of your wonderfully built Red Ball models and look forward to seeing more! W. Jay W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "toytrain13" <toytrain13@...> wrote: > > Hi guys- I've just posted the "Richard's Red Ball Cars" folder in the Photos section. This folder shows the cars I've constructed from kits over the past two years. I have five more Red Ball kits waiting for the paint shop, when warmer weather arrives. I also have a completed Red Ball wrecking crane awaiting "stringing." > I once had a dozen kits I'd ordered from Howell Day in the sixties, and never constructed, and later sold. I got back into Red Ball when a friend brought a few kits to a TCA meeting and I bought a few. He had other Red Ball kits at home, and I arranged to buy all of them- about fifty, and I've been building them ever since. > Check out the folder! > Regards- Richard White >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17183	From: Richard White	Date: 8/14/2011
Subject: Re: Richard White's Red Ball car photo album

Hi Denny- Thanks for your positive comments on my Red Ball album. I built the reefer and boxcar bodies with the 1/16" plywood flush with the bottom and end blocks, with 3/16" square basswood strips to position the plywood- checking often with my mini-straightedge! This results in super-strong bodies and prevents the card sides from warping. Then after painting the bodies I glue the sides on. I should also mention that I spray all of the card sides (exterior) with Testor's semi-gloss before installing them.  I've only had one casting (a boxcar end) break when I "straightened" it. I've substituted Tichy ladders for the brass strip stock on all of the reefers and boxcars. Some cars have Cal-Scale brake cylinders, and most have Cal-Scale brake levers. I use 0.018" music wire for the brake rigging (from Small Parts, Inc.). I use this wire to form handgrabs too, in lieu of the staples included in the kits. I pre-blacken all this wire (with gun blue) before installing. Most of the reefers have Tichy hinges and Grandt Line latches.  I've used Elmer's Carpenters Glue for assembly of all wood and cardstock parts. I used CAA to attach (plastic) ladders, reefer door hardware and various metal parts. I think I'll try Barge Cement instead of CAA in the future. I've tried to match the colors of the printed cardstock sides by eye- mixing Floquil boxcar red, tuscan and caboose red together as needed, and not always successfully. I've found that trying to lighten boxcar red, for instance, by adding reefer white, just results in a "muddy" shade. Sometimes I just say "good enough!" None of the boxcars have sliding doors. The doors are glued in position. Regards- Richard White   To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: cwrailman@... Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2011 16:55:18 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Richard White's Red Ball car photo album   Richard, Nice clean workmanship on those Red Ball cars. I don't know how I missed you original post but I am pleased it was brought to my attention again. I see you used plywood backing for some of the reefer cars. Nice idea. Have you had any issues with any of the old metal parts? In building the kits, except for trucks and couplers, do you use any components that were not originally included in the kit? What is the main glue that you use? Do you have any problems matching the original paint colors? Again, nice work! Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "toytrain13" <toytrain13@...> wrote: > > Hi guys- I've just posted the "Richard's Red Ball Cars" folder in the Photos section. This folder shows the cars I've constructed from kits over the past two years. I have five more Red Ball kits waiting for the paint shop, when warmer weather arrives. I also have a completed Red Ball wrecking crane awaiting "stringing." > I once had a dozen kits I'd ordered from Howell Day in the sixties, and never constructed, and later sold. I got back into Red Ball when a friend brought a few kits to a TCA meeting and I bought a few. He had other Red Ball kits at home, and I arranged to buy all of them- about fifty, and I've been building them ever since. > Check out the folder! > Regards- Richard White >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17184	From: cwrailman	Date: 8/15/2011
Subject: Re: Richard White's Red Ball car photo album

Richard, Obviously you and I must be marching to the beat of the same drummer as my methods in many respects mirror yours except for the choice of adhesives as I use Ambroid. Except for the cars I built when I first joined the hobby I also tend to upgrade the hardware and castings. IE, replacing the railings from the LaBelle open platform cars with Cal Scale platform railings and using Cal Scale brake hardware on almost everything. I use an old supply of Northeastern or now Tichy hand grabs for the cars. My paint mixing skills leave a bit to be desired as I have difficulty matching those old colors on the preprinted sides. I liked the idea of over spraying the sides of the car. Do you do any touchup to the sides or have you been lucky in finding kits with clean well preserved graphics? How much handling do your cars get? Operating sessions or Any uneducated hands touching these cars? Again, nice work! Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Richard White <toytrain13@...> wrote: > > > Hi Denny- Thanks for your positive comments on my Red Ball album. I built the reefer and boxcar bodies with the 1/16" plywood flush with the bottom and end blocks, with 3/16" square basswood strips to position the plywood- checking often with my mini-straightedge! This results in super-strong bodies and prevents the card sides from warping. Then after painting the bodies I glue the sides on. I should also mention that I spray all of the card sides (exterior) with Testor's semi-gloss before installing them. I've only had one casting (a boxcar end) break when I "straightened" it.I've substituted Tichy ladders for the brass strip stock on all of the reefers and boxcars. Some cars have Cal-Scale brake cylinders, and most have Cal-Scale brake levers. I use 0.018" music wire for the brake rigging (from Small Parts, Inc.). I use this wire to form handgrabs too, in lieu of the staples included in the kits. I pre-blacken all this wire (with gun blue) before installing. Most of the reefers have Tichy hinges and Grandt Line latches. I've used Elmer's Carpenters Glue for assembly of all wood and cardstock parts. I used CAA to attach (plastic) ladders, reefer door hardware and various metal parts. I think I'll try Barge Cement instead of CAA in the future.I've tried to match the colors of the printed cardstock sides by eye- mixing Floquil boxcar red, tuscan and caboose red together as needed, and not always successfully. I've found that trying to lighten boxcar red, for instance, by adding reefer white, just results in a "muddy" shade. Sometimes I just say "good enough!"None of the boxcars have sliding doors. The doors are glued in position.Regards- Richard White To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > From: cwrailman@... > Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2011 16:55:18 +0000 > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Richard White's Red Ball car photo album > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Richard, > > > > Nice clean workmanship on those Red Ball cars. I don't know how I missed you original post but I am pleased it was brought to my attention again. > > > > I see you used plywood backing for some of the reefer cars. Nice idea. Have you had any issues with any of the old metal parts? > > > > In building the kits, except for trucks and couplers, do you use any components that were not originally included in the kit? > > > > What is the main glue that you use? > > > > Do you have any problems matching the original paint colors? > > > > Again, nice work! > > > > Denny > > Janitor in Training > > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "toytrain13" <toytrain13@> wrote: > > > > > > Hi guys- I've just posted the "Richard's Red Ball Cars" folder in the Photos section. This folder shows the cars I've constructed from kits over the past two years. I have five more Red Ball kits waiting for the paint shop, when warmer weather arrives. I also have a completed Red Ball wrecking crane awaiting "stringing." > > > I once had a dozen kits I'd ordered from Howell Day in the sixties, and never constructed, and later sold. I got back into Red Ball when a friend brought a few kits to a TCA meeting and I bought a few. He had other Red Ball kits at home, and I arranged to buy all of them- about fifty, and I've been building them ever since. > > > Check out the folder! > > > Regards- Richard White > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17185	From: Richard White	Date: 8/15/2011
Subject: Re: Richard White's Red Ball car photo album

Hi Denny- I've so far had kits with well-preserved card sides. In addition to the semi-gloss clearcoat, I also carefully paint the edges of the cardstock sides prior to installation- black on the bottom and (usually) boxcar red on the ends. And my cars get very minimal handling. They've never been on a layout (all I have is a Timesaver switching layout). Of course, my Micro-Mark drill press is my indispensable tool in assembling these kits- as well as Blue Line, American Beauty and (old) Walthers kits. I paint using a Binks Wren B airbrush, although I occasionally think about an upgrade in the airbrush department.   Regards- Richard   To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: cwrailman@... Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2011 14:57:01 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Richard White's Red Ball car photo album   Richard, Obviously you and I must be marching to the beat of the same drummer as my methods in many respects mirror yours except for the choice of adhesives as I use Ambroid. Except for the cars I built when I first joined the hobby I also tend to upgrade the hardware and castings. IE, replacing the railings from the LaBelle open platform cars with Cal Scale platform railings and using Cal Scale brake hardware on almost everything. I use an old supply of Northeastern or now Tichy hand grabs for the cars. My paint mixing skills leave a bit to be desired as I have difficulty matching those old colors on the preprinted sides. I liked the idea of over spraying the sides of the car. Do you do any touchup to the sides or have you been lucky in finding kits with clean well preserved graphics? How much handling do your cars get? Operating sessions or… Any uneducated hands touching these cars? Again, nice work! Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Richard White <toytrain13@...> wrote: > > > Hi Denny- Thanks for your positive comments on my Red Ball album. I built the reefer and boxcar bodies with the 1/16" plywood flush with the bottom and end blocks, with 3/16" square basswood strips to position the plywood- checking often with my mini-straightedge! This results in super-strong bodies and prevents the card sides from warping. Then after painting the bodies I glue the sides on. I should also mention that I spray all of the card sides (exterior) with Testor's semi-gloss before installing them. I've only had one casting (a boxcar end) break when I "straightened" it.I've substituted Tichy ladders for the brass strip stock on all of the reefers and boxcars. Some cars have Cal-Scale brake cylinders, and most have Cal-Scale brake levers. I use 0.018" music wire for the brake rigging (from Small Parts, Inc.). I use this wire to form handgrabs too, in lieu of the staples included in the kits. I pre-blacken all this wire (with gun blue) before installing. Most of the reefers have Tichy hinges and Grandt Line latches. I've used Elmer's Carpenters Glue for assembly of all wood and cardstock parts. I used CAA to attach (plastic) ladders, reefer door hardware and various metal parts. I think I'll try Barge Cement instead of CAA in the future.I've tried to match the colors of the printed cardstock sides by eye- mixing Floquil boxcar red, tuscan and caboose red together as needed, and not always successfully. I've found that trying to lighten boxcar red, for instance, by adding reefer white, just results in a "muddy" shade. Sometimes I just say "good enough!"None of the boxcars have sliding doors. The doors are glued in position.Regards- Richard White To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > From: cwrailman@... > Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2011 16:55:18 +0000 > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Richard White's Red Ball car photo album > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Richard, > > > > Nice clean workmanship on those Red Ball cars. I don't know how I missed you original post but I am pleased it was brought to my attention again. > > > > I see you used plywood backing for some of the reefer cars. Nice idea. Have you had any issues with any of the old metal parts? > > > > In building the kits, except for trucks and couplers, do you use any components that were not originally included in the kit? > > > > What is the main glue that you use? > > > > Do you have any problems matching the original paint colors? > > > > Again, nice work! > > > > Denny > > Janitor in Training > > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "toytrain13" <toytrain13@> wrote: > > > > > > Hi guys- I've just posted the "Richard's Red Ball Cars" folder in the Photos section. This folder shows the cars I've constructed from kits over the past two years. I have five more Red Ball kits waiting for the paint shop, when warmer weather arrives. I also have a completed Red Ball wrecking crane awaiting "stringing." > > > I once had a dozen kits I'd ordered from Howell Day in the sixties, and never constructed, and later sold. I got back into Red Ball when a friend brought a few kits to a TCA meeting and I bought a few. He had other Red Ball kits at home, and I arranged to buy all of them- about fifty, and I've been building them ever since. > > > Check out the folder! > > > Regards- Richard White > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17186	From: rcjge	Date: 8/15/2011
Subject: Vintage psgr cars

Hey Guys: I have a couple of old passenger car kits. I'm paring down and I've watched some discussions about various brands of these cars. One is a Walthers, wood and other materials, I think a Pullman. the other is a Varney same kind of car. I may keep the Varney since I have several Varney Steamers and the car could go with them, but is anyone interested in the older Walthers designs? I'll be coming across it soon, so I could could take pixtures to help ID it. The top of the box is present I don't think the bottom is. I think I wrapped it to keep everything inside the lid if memory serves. Anyway. If this is your thing let me know? Thx, Gareth Bradford-WG, Ont.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17187	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 8/15/2011
Subject: Re: Drill press [was Richard White's Red Ball car photo album]

Richard White, Any procedures, tricks, special safeguards, etc. to drilling those Am Beauty car sides to keep from chipping the finish and to keep the drill from wandering? Walter On Mon, Aug 15, 2011 at 10:42 PM, Richard White <toytrain13@...> wrote:   Hi Denny- I've so far had kits with well-preserved card sides. In addition to the semi-gloss clearcoat, I also carefully paint the edges of the cardstock sides prior to installation- black on the bottom and (usually) boxcar red on the ends. And my cars get very minimal handling. They've never been on a layout (all I have is a Timesaver switching layout). Of course, my Micro-Mark drill press is my indispensable tool in assembling these kits- as well as Blue Line, American Beauty and (old) Walthers kits. I paint using a Binks Wren B airbrush, although I occasionally think about an upgrade in the airbrush department.   Regards- Richard   To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: cwrailman@... Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2011 14:57:01 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Richard White's Red Ball car photo album   Richard, Obviously you and I must be marching to the beat of the same drummer as my methods in many respects mirror yours except for the choice of adhesives as I use Ambroid. Except for the cars I built when I first joined the hobby I also tend to upgrade the hardware and castings. IE, replacing the railings from the LaBelle open platform cars with Cal Scale platform railings and using Cal Scale brake hardware on almost everything. I use an old supply of Northeastern or now Tichy hand grabs for the cars. My paint mixing skills leave a bit to be desired as I have difficulty matching those old colors on the preprinted sides. I liked the idea of over spraying the sides of the car. Do you do any touchup to the sides or have you been lucky in finding kits with clean well preserved graphics? How much handling do your cars get? Operating sessions or… Any uneducated hands touching these cars? Again, nice work! Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Richard White <toytrain13@...> wrote: > > > Hi Denny- Thanks for your positive comments on my Red Ball album. I built the reefer and boxcar bodies with the 1/16" plywood flush with the bottom and end blocks, with 3/16" square basswood strips to position the plywood- checking often with my mini-straightedge! This results in super-strong bodies and prevents the card sides from warping. Then after painting the bodies I glue the sides on. I should also mention that I spray all of the card sides (exterior) with Testor's semi-gloss before installing them. I've only had one casting (a boxcar end) break when I "straightened" it.I've substituted Tichy ladders for the brass strip stock on all of the reefers and boxcars. Some cars have Cal-Scale brake cylinders, and most have Cal-Scale brake levers. I use 0.018" music wire for the brake rigging (from Small Parts, Inc.). I use this wire to form handgrabs too, in lieu of the staples included in the kits. I pre-blacken all this wire (with gun blue) before installing. Most of the reefers have Tichy hinges and Grandt Line latches. I've used Elmer's Carpenters Glue for assembly of all wood and cardstock parts. I used CAA to attach (plastic) ladders, reefer door hardware and various metal parts. I think I'll try Barge Cement instead of CAA in the future.I've tried to match the colors of the printed cardstock sides by eye- mixing Floquil boxcar red, tuscan and caboose red together as needed, and not always successfully. I've found that trying to lighten boxcar red, for instance, by adding reefer white, just results in a "muddy" shade. Sometimes I just say "good enough!"None of the boxcars have sliding doors. The doors are glued in position.Regards- Richard White To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > From: cwrailman@... > Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2011 16:55:18 +0000 > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Richard White's Red Ball car photo album > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Richard, > > > > Nice clean workmanship on those Red Ball cars. I don't know how I missed you original post but I am pleased it was brought to my attention again. > > > > I see you used plywood backing for some of the reefer cars. Nice idea. Have you had any issues with any of the old metal parts? > > > > In building the kits, except for trucks and couplers, do you use any components that were not originally included in the kit? > > > > What is the main glue that you use? > > > > Do you have any problems matching the original paint colors? > > > > Again, nice work! > > > > Denny > > Janitor in Training > > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "toytrain13" <toytrain13@> wrote: > > > > > > Hi guys- I've just posted the "Richard's Red Ball Cars" folder in the Photos section. This folder shows the cars I've constructed from kits over the past two years. I have five more Red Ball kits waiting for the paint shop, when warmer weather arrives. I also have a completed Red Ball wrecking crane awaiting "stringing." > > > I once had a dozen kits I'd ordered from Howell Day in the sixties, and never constructed, and later sold. I got back into Red Ball when a friend brought a few kits to a TCA meeting and I bought a few. He had other Red Ball kits at home, and I arranged to buy all of them- about fifty, and I've been building them ever since. > > > Check out the folder! > > > Regards- Richard White > > > > -- Regards, Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17188	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 8/16/2011
Subject: Fwd: Another Varney Tender

Attachments : IMG_7265_2.JPG IMG_7264_2.JPG Most people know I am an avid HO vintage collector and especially a Varney collector. A while back I found what I thought was the last Varney tender that I needed. It was the plastic shelled long haul tender (2704k) that was only sold with the 2950K 2-8-4 Berkshire kit. Thanks to Sean N The pictures I have sent are of a [765} slope Back Tender made 1939-1940 that has a lead body. I also have , not shown, the [765} slope back tender 1941-1942 with the Zamac body. Both these items were sold as bodies ONLY and you had to find parts to do the detail work as the pictures of the finished lead body tender show. But eBay provided me with a Vintage Varney 1894K Metal Slope Back Tender 1946-1959 that has a cast body and all the details needed to complete in the kit. If you go to 120762301124 Vintage Varney 1894k Metal Slope Back Tender Kit you will see my newest Varney tender for my Vintage Varney collection. ( and hopefully this is the last ). This tender / kit was used a lot with any 0-8-0 Varney Switchers people would create that were not sold as kits. Also I received that little Green painted Japanese 0-4-0 Diesel Yard Switcher which when taken apart has no inside writing. As soon as time permits I will send pictures of it, the motor, and noisy drive. The upper body of the little engine is brass ads the floor is some sort of stamped metal that can be bent. More pictures on this later. Other then replacing a coupler, stripping the paint, a little lube and fixing one of the seams on the back left side of the cab it won't take much to get it in running condition. ( Hope I made no typos ) Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 17189	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 8/16/2011
Subject: Japanese Yard Switcher

Attachments : IMG_7270.JPG IMG_7269.JPG IMG_7267.JPG IMG_7266.JPG Yesterday I received item 160632168199 HO Railroad Yard Work Engine 1960's Vintage I disassembled the engine , didn't take much, to look for any writing. The only thing I found was on top of the motor was KTM . The upper body is brass and the paint will be stripped and the separation on the back left side of the cab will be repaired. It needs a new coupler also. The engine is noisy due to the set up of the vertical motor with it's gear " meshing " much like many Japanese items like IMP. Very hard to adjust in or out do to some very small screws. Just getting the drivers running without slipping might be the best I can do. Remember I am that stubborn idiot that that will not change things to make them run better. How they run is how they stay. Engine for now will stay brass till I find pictures of how they were painted or if not factory painted I can do my own thing. Neat little engine. Might pull 3 cars. Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 17190	From: Jay	Date: 8/16/2011
Subject: Re: Fwd: Another Varney Tender

Hi Jim, All, Congratulations on your latest find! I had seen that listing, though was not bidding as I beleive I have both Zamac versions. I have some questions as to how to identify the differences bewteen the pre-WW II (1941-1942) Varney Zamac 765 sloped back tender and the postwar (1946-1959) #1894K tender as the Varney guide does not identify the specific differences between them. What I believe to be the pre-war Zamac 765 has no part number and large "Varney" cast into the inside of the sloped portion of tender body shell, but does have a small micro "Varney" cast on the underside of the front beam near the front step area (on right corner looking at the underside). The 1894 Kit body casting has the part number "1894" and a large "Varney" cast inside (bearly visible in the eBay photo) as well as the micro "Varney" in the same position as the 765. One aditional difference I see between my two model's castings is that the postwar 1894 has two mounting holes cast into the underside of the rear end beam to accept the rear beam/step casting studs. Am I correct at spotting these diffences? (I can wait for a reply until after you receive yours!) My 1984 tender sadly lacks that rear beam/step casting - anyone have an extra? -Varney part "#1972, Switcher Step- Platform type, rear." W. Jay W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > > > Most people know I am an avid HO vintage collector and > especially a Varney collector. A while back I found what I thought was > the last Varney tender that I needed. It was the plastic shelled long > haul tender (2704k) that was only sold with the 2950K 2-8-4 Berkshire > kit. Thanks to Sean N > > > The pictures I have sent are of a [765} slope Back Tender made > 1939-1940 that has a lead body. > > I also have , not shown, the [765} slope back tender 1941-1942 > with the Zamac body. > > Both these items were sold as bodies ONLY and you had to find parts > to do the detail work as the pictures of the finished lead body tender > show. > > But eBay provided me with a Vintage Varney 1894K Metal Slope Back > Tender 1946-1959 that has a cast body and all the details needed to > complete in the kit. If you go to 120762301124 Vintage Varney > 1894k Metal Slope Back Tender Kit you will see my newest Varney tender > for my Vintage Varney collection. ( and hopefully this is the last ). > This tender / kit was used a lot with any 0-8-0 Varney Switchers people > would create that were not sold as kits. > > Also I received that little Green painted Japanese 0-4-0 Diesel > Yard Switcher which when taken apart has no inside writing. As soon as > time permits I will send pictures of it, the motor, and noisy drive. The > upper body of the little engine is brass ads the floor is some sort of > stamped metal that can be bent. More pictures on this later. Other then > replacing a coupler, stripping the paint, a little lube and fixing one > of the seams on the back left side of the cab it won't take much to get > it in running condition. ( Hope I made no typos ) > > > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17191	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 8/16/2011
Subject: Re: Japanese Yard Switcher [4 Attachments]

The KTM motors are actually pretty decent if they are kept maintained and not abused.  I have one in my Gem A5S and it actually draws very little current and starts at about 2 to 3 volts.  I had to repair my KTM motor because somehow a previous owner caused the rear bearing to wear out.  It was pretty easy to replace the bearing with a new one I made from brass rod. I will guess that if the loco has a KTM motor in it, it is probably a decent engine. Regards Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: jimheck@... Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2011 12:01:04 -0400 Subject: [vintageHO] Japanese Yard Switcher [4 Attachments]   [Attachment(s) from Jim Heckard included below] Yesterday I received item 160632168199 HO Railroad Yard Work Engine 1960's Vintage I disassembled the engine , didn't take much, to look for any writing. The only thing I found was on top of the motor was KTM . The upper body is brass and the paint will be stripped and the separation on the back left side of the cab will be repaired. It needs a new coupler also. The engine is noisy due to the set up of the vertical motor with it's gear " meshing " much like many Japanese items like IMP. Very hard to adjust in or out do to some very small screws. Just getting the drivers running without slipping might be the best I can do. Remember I am that stubborn idiot that that will not change things to make them run better. How they run is how they stay. Engine for now will stay brass till I find pictures of how they were painted or if not factory painted I can do my own thing. Neat little engine. Might pull 3 cars. Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17192	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 8/16/2011
Subject: Re: Fwd: Another Varney Tender [2 Attachments]

Jim, I'm still thinking that diesel is one of the model Japanese national locomotives that were generally sold in Japan and somewhat imported into the States by firms like LMB and Ken Kidder. The Japanese still have lots of short run brass based model kits that never get into this country. It's a pity since they have such a huge variety compared to what we see in the US mass market hobby shops. I envy the shots of their train-show, swap meets with table upon table of dozens of different types of those kits on each table. Best to ya, Mike Bauers Milwaukee, Wi On Aug 16, 2011, at 9:44 AM, Jim Heckard wrote: ..................... > Also I received that little Green painted Japanese 0-4-0 Diesel > Yard Switcher which when taken apart has no inside writing. As soon > as > time permits I will send pictures of it, the motor, and noisy drive. > The > upper body of the little engine is brass ads the floor is some sort of > stamped metal that can be bent. More pictures on this later. Other > then > replacing a coupler, stripping the paint, a little lube and fixing one > of the seams on the back left side of the cab it won't take much to > get > it in running condition. ( Hope I made no typos )

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17193	From: Richard White	Date: 8/16/2011
Subject: Re: Drill press [was Richard White's Red Ball car photo album]

Hi Walther- I've made a jig, out of thin brass sheet, with the four holes for the handrail locations (two per side of the door). It's essential that you make this very accurate, as all subsequent drilling will reflect this. One edge of the jig will align with the bottom of the car side, and the another will align with the end of the car side (but sometimes small alterations are required). I then tape (blue painters tape) the jig in the correct position at the door and then drill. When I drill through this jig the bit can't wander, and accuracy is assured. By the way, for Blue Line and American Beauty cars I use 0.018" stainless steel rod (from Small Parts, Inc.). I hope this helps. -Richard   To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: bayerw2@... Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2011 23:11:05 -0400 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Drill press [was Richard White's Red Ball car photo album]   Richard White, Any procedures, tricks, special safeguards, etc. to drilling those Am Beauty car sides to keep from chipping the finish and to keep the drill from wandering? Walter On Mon, Aug 15, 2011 at 10:42 PM, Richard White <toytrain13@...> wrote:   Hi Denny- I've so far had kits with well-preserved card sides. In addition to the semi-gloss clearcoat, I also carefully paint the edges of the cardstock sides prior to installation- black on the bottom and (usually) boxcar red on the ends. And my cars get very minimal handling. They've never been on a layout (all I have is a Timesaver switching layout). Of course, my Micro-Mark drill press is my indispensable tool in assembling these kits- as well as Blue Line, American Beauty and (old) Walthers kits. I paint using a Binks Wren B airbrush, although I occasionally think about an upgrade in the airbrush department.   Regards- Richard   To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: cwrailman@... Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2011 14:57:01 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Richard White's Red Ball car photo album   Richard, Obviously you and I must be marching to the beat of the same drummer as my methods in many respects mirror yours except for the choice of adhesives as I use Ambroid. Except for the cars I built when I first joined the hobby I also tend to upgrade the hardware and castings. IE, replacing the railings from the LaBelle open platform cars with Cal Scale platform railings and using Cal Scale brake hardware on almost everything. I use an old supply of Northeastern or now Tichy hand grabs for the cars. My paint mixing skills leave a bit to be desired as I have difficulty matching those old colors on the preprinted sides. I liked the idea of over spraying the sides of the car. Do you do any touchup to the sides or have you been lucky in finding kits with clean well preserved graphics? How much handling do your cars get? Operating sessions or… Any uneducated hands touching these cars? Again, nice work! Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Richard White <toytrain13@...> wrote: > > > Hi Denny- Thanks for your positive comments on my Red Ball album. I built the reefer and boxcar bodies with the 1/16" plywood flush with the bottom and end blocks, with 3/16" square basswood strips to position the plywood- checking often with my mini-straightedge! This results in super-strong bodies and prevents the card sides from warping. Then after painting the bodies I glue the sides on. I should also mention that I spray all of the card sides (exterior) with Testor's semi-gloss before installing them. I've only had one casting (a boxcar end) break when I "straightened" it.I've substituted Tichy ladders for the brass strip stock on all of the reefers and boxcars. Some cars have Cal-Scale brake cylinders, and most have Cal-Scale brake levers. I use 0.018" music wire for the brake rigging (from Small Parts, Inc.). I use this wire to form handgrabs too, in lieu of the staples included in the kits. I pre-blacken all this wire (with gun blue) before installing. Most of the reefers have Tichy hinges and Grandt Line latches. I've used Elmer's Carpenters Glue for assembly of all wood and cardstock parts. I used CAA to attach (plastic) ladders, reefer door hardware and various metal parts. I think I'll try Barge Cement instead of CAA in the future.I've tried to match the colors of the printed cardstock sides by eye- mixing Floquil boxcar red, tuscan and caboose red together as needed, and not always successfully. I've found that trying to lighten boxcar red, for instance, by adding reefer white, just results in a "muddy" shade. Sometimes I just say "good enough!"None of the boxcars have sliding doors. The doors are glued in position.Regards- Richard White To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > From: cwrailman@... > Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2011 16:55:18 +0000 > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Richard White's Red Ball car photo album > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Richard, > > > > Nice clean workmanship on those Red Ball cars. I don't know how I missed you original post but I am pleased it was brought to my attention again. > > > > I see you used plywood backing for some of the reefer cars. Nice idea. Have you had any issues with any of the old metal parts? > > > > In building the kits, except for trucks and couplers, do you use any components that were not originally included in the kit? > > > > What is the main glue that you use? > > > > Do you have any problems matching the original paint colors? > > > > Again, nice work! > > > > Denny > > Janitor in Training > > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "toytrain13" <toytrain13@> wrote: > > > > > > Hi guys- I've just posted the "Richard's Red Ball Cars" folder in the Photos section. This folder shows the cars I've constructed from kits over the past two years. I have five more Red Ball kits waiting for the paint shop, when warmer weather arrives. I also have a completed Red Ball wrecking crane awaiting "stringing." > > > I once had a dozen kits I'd ordered from Howell Day in the sixties, and never constructed, and later sold. I got back into Red Ball when a friend brought a few kits to a TCA meeting and I bought a few. He had other Red Ball kits at home, and I arranged to buy all of them- about fifty, and I've been building them ever since. > > > Check out the folder! > > > Regards- Richard White > > > > -- Regards, Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17194	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 8/16/2011
Subject: Re: Drill press [was Richard White's Red Ball car photo album]

Thank you, Richard. I assume you drill from the front side, the painted side. Is there no need to put blue painters' tape over the painted side? I'll have to get that .018" SS wire. Walter On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 4:52 PM, Richard White <toytrain13@...> wrote:   Hi Walther- I've made a jig, out of thin brass sheet, with the four holes for the handrail locations (two per side of the door). It's essential that you make this very accurate, as all subsequent drilling will reflect this. One edge of the jig will align with the bottom of the car side, and the another will align with the end of the car side (but sometimes small alterations are required). I then tape (blue painters tape) the jig in the correct position at the door and then drill. When I drill through this jig the bit can't wander, and accuracy is assured. By the way, for Blue Line and American Beauty cars I use 0.018" stainless steel rod (from Small Parts, Inc.). I hope this helps. -Richard   To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: bayerw2@... Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2011 23:11:05 -0400 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Drill press [was Richard White's Red Ball car photo album]   Richard White, Any procedures, tricks, special safeguards, etc. to drilling those Am Beauty car sides to keep from chipping the finish and to keep the drill from wandering? Walter On Mon, Aug 15, 2011 at 10:42 PM, Richard White <toytrain13@...> wrote:   Hi Denny- I've so far had kits with well-preserved card sides. In addition to the semi-gloss clearcoat, I also carefully paint the edges of the cardstock sides prior to installation- black on the bottom and (usually) boxcar red on the ends. And my cars get very minimal handling. They've never been on a layout (all I have is a Timesaver switching layout). Of course, my Micro-Mark drill press is my indispensable tool in assembling these kits- as well as Blue Line, American Beauty and (old) Walthers kits. I paint using a Binks Wren B airbrush, although I occasionally think about an upgrade in the airbrush department.   Regards- Richard   To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: cwrailman@... Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2011 14:57:01 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Richard White's Red Ball car photo album   Richard, Obviously you and I must be marching to the beat of the same drummer as my methods in many respects mirror yours except for the choice of adhesives as I use Ambroid. Except for the cars I built when I first joined the hobby I also tend to upgrade the hardware and castings. IE, replacing the railings from the LaBelle open platform cars with Cal Scale platform railings and using Cal Scale brake hardware on almost everything. I use an old supply of Northeastern or now Tichy hand grabs for the cars. My paint mixing skills leave a bit to be desired as I have difficulty matching those old colors on the preprinted sides. I liked the idea of over spraying the sides of the car. Do you do any touchup to the sides or have you been lucky in finding kits with clean well preserved graphics? How much handling do your cars get? Operating sessions or… Any uneducated hands touching these cars? Again, nice work! Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Richard White <toytrain13@...> wrote: > > > Hi Denny- Thanks for your positive comments on my Red Ball album. I built the reefer and boxcar bodies with the 1/16" plywood flush with the bottom and end blocks, with 3/16" square basswood strips to position the plywood- checking often with my mini-straightedge! This results in super-strong bodies and prevents the card sides from warping. Then after painting the bodies I glue the sides on. I should also mention that I spray all of the card sides (exterior) with Testor's semi-gloss before installing them. I've only had one casting (a boxcar end) break when I "straightened" it.I've substituted Tichy ladders for the brass strip stock on all of the reefers and boxcars. Some cars have Cal-Scale brake cylinders, and most have Cal-Scale brake levers. I use 0.018" music wire for the brake rigging (from Small Parts, Inc.). I use this wire to form handgrabs too, in lieu of the staples included in the kits. I pre-blacken all this wire (with gun blue) before installing. Most of the reefers have Tichy hinges and Grandt Line latches. I've used Elmer's Carpenters Glue for assembly of all wood and cardstock parts. I used CAA to attach (plastic) ladders, reefer door hardware and various metal parts. I think I'll try Barge Cement instead of CAA in the future.I've tried to match the colors of the printed cardstock sides by eye- mixing Floquil boxcar red, tuscan and caboose red together as needed, and not always successfully. I've found that trying to lighten boxcar red, for instance, by adding reefer white, just results in a "muddy" shade. Sometimes I just say "good enough!"None of the boxcars have sliding doors. The doors are glued in position.Regards- Richard White To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > From: cwrailman@... > Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2011 16:55:18 +0000 > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Richard White's Red Ball car photo album > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Richard, > > > > Nice clean workmanship on those Red Ball cars. I don't know how I missed you original post but I am pleased it was brought to my attention again. > > > > I see you used plywood backing for some of the reefer cars. Nice idea. Have you had any issues with any of the old metal parts? > > > > In building the kits, except for trucks and couplers, do you use any components that were not originally included in the kit? > > > > What is the main glue that you use? > > > > Do you have any problems matching the original paint colors? > > > > Again, nice work! > > > > Denny > > Janitor in Training > > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "toytrain13" <toytrain13@> wrote: > > > > > > Hi guys- I've just posted the "Richard's Red Ball Cars" folder in the Photos section. This folder shows the cars I've constructed from kits over the past two years. I have five more Red Ball kits waiting for the paint shop, when warmer weather arrives. I also have a completed Red Ball wrecking crane awaiting "stringing." > > > I once had a dozen kits I'd ordered from Howell Day in the sixties, and never constructed, and later sold. I got back into Red Ball when a friend brought a few kits to a TCA meeting and I bought a few. He had other Red Ball kits at home, and I arranged to buy all of them- about fifty, and I've been building them ever since. > > > Check out the folder! > > > Regards- Richard White > > > > -- Regards, Walter -- Regards, Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17195	From: rcjge	Date: 8/16/2011
Subject: Re: Vintage psgr cars

I know I wasn't being very specific, but really how can I be? But I expected someone to show interest. Oh well.... -Gareth

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17196	From: Richard White	Date: 8/16/2011
Subject: Re: Drill press [was Richard White's Red Ball car photo album]

Hi Walter- I'm not certain what your meaning is, regarding the blue painter's tape. I place the template on the painted surface of the AB car side (I've carefully filed any burrs off the underside of the template) and then secure with a couple of pieces of blue tape to hold the template in place. The tape doesn't harm the painted car side. Incidentally, I use my magnifying OptiVisor for this kind of work. It really helps with the accuracy. I use SS wire for the handrails since the handrails on most streamlined cars were stainless. Regards- Richard    To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: bayerw2@... Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2011 17:44:02 -0400 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Drill press [was Richard White's Red Ball car photo album]   Thank you, Richard. I assume you drill from the front side, the painted side. Is there no need to put blue painters' tape over the painted side? I'll have to get that .018" SS wire. Walter On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 4:52 PM, Richard White <toytrain13@...> wrote:   Hi Walther- I've made a jig, out of thin brass sheet, with the four holes for the handrail locations (two per side of the door). It's essential that you make this very accurate, as all subsequent drilling will reflect this. One edge of the jig will align with the bottom of the car side, and the another will align with the end of the car side (but sometimes small alterations are required). I then tape (blue painters tape) the jig in the correct position at the door and then drill. When I drill through this jig the bit can't wander, and accuracy is assured. By the way, for Blue Line and American Beauty cars I use 0.018" stainless steel rod (from Small Parts, Inc.). I hope this helps. -Richard   To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: bayerw2@... Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2011 23:11:05 -0400 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Drill press [was Richard White's Red Ball car photo album]   Richard White, Any procedures, tricks, special safeguards, etc. to drilling those Am Beauty car sides to keep from chipping the finish and to keep the drill from wandering? Walter On Mon, Aug 15, 2011 at 10:42 PM, Richard White <toytrain13@...> wrote:   Hi Denny- I've so far had kits with well-preserved card sides. In addition to the semi-gloss clearcoat, I also carefully paint the edges of the cardstock sides prior to installation- black on the bottom and (usually) boxcar red on the ends. And my cars get very minimal handling. They've never been on a layout (all I have is a Timesaver switching layout). Of course, my Micro-Mark drill press is my indispensable tool in assembling these kits- as well as Blue Line, American Beauty and (old) Walthers kits. I paint using a Binks Wren B airbrush, although I occasionally think about an upgrade in the airbrush department.   Regards- Richard   To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: cwrailman@... Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2011 14:57:01 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Richard White's Red Ball car photo album   Richard, Obviously you and I must be marching to the beat of the same drummer as my methods in many respects mirror yours except for the choice of adhesives as I use Ambroid. Except for the cars I built when I first joined the hobby I also tend to upgrade the hardware and castings. IE, replacing the railings from the LaBelle open platform cars with Cal Scale platform railings and using Cal Scale brake hardware on almost everything. I use an old supply of Northeastern or now Tichy hand grabs for the cars. My paint mixing skills leave a bit to be desired as I have difficulty matching those old colors on the preprinted sides. I liked the idea of over spraying the sides of the car. Do you do any touchup to the sides or have you been lucky in finding kits with clean well preserved graphics? How much handling do your cars get? Operating sessions or… Any uneducated hands touching these cars? Again, nice work! Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Richard White <toytrain13@...> wrote: > > > Hi Denny- Thanks for your positive comments on my Red Ball album. I built the reefer and boxcar bodies with the 1/16" plywood flush with the bottom and end blocks, with 3/16" square basswood strips to position the plywood- checking often with my mini-straightedge! This results in super-strong bodies and prevents the card sides from warping. Then after painting the bodies I glue the sides on. I should also mention that I spray all of the card sides (exterior) with Testor's semi-gloss before installing them. I've only had one casting (a boxcar end) break when I "straightened" it.I've substituted Tichy ladders for the brass strip stock on all of the reefers and boxcars. Some cars have Cal-Scale brake cylinders, and most have Cal-Scale brake levers. I use 0.018" music wire for the brake rigging (from Small Parts, Inc.). I use this wire to form handgrabs too, in lieu of the staples included in the kits. I pre-blacken all this wire (with gun blue) before installing. Most of the reefers have Tichy hinges and Grandt Line latches. I've used Elmer's Carpenters Glue for assembly of all wood and cardstock parts. I used CAA to attach (plastic) ladders, reefer door hardware and various metal parts. I think I'll try Barge Cement instead of CAA in the future.I've tried to match the colors of the printed cardstock sides by eye- mixing Floquil boxcar red, tuscan and caboose red together as needed, and not always successfully. I've found that trying to lighten boxcar red, for instance, by adding reefer white, just results in a "muddy" shade. Sometimes I just say "good enough!"None of the boxcars have sliding doors. The doors are glued in position.Regards- Richard White To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > From: cwrailman@... > Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2011 16:55:18 +0000 > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Richard White's Red Ball car photo album > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Richard, > > > > Nice clean workmanship on those Red Ball cars. I don't know how I missed you original post but I am pleased it was brought to my attention again. > > > > I see you used plywood backing for some of the reefer cars. Nice idea. Have you had any issues with any of the old metal parts? > > > > In building the kits, except for trucks and couplers, do you use any components that were not originally included in the kit? > > > > What is the main glue that you use? > > > > Do you have any problems matching the original paint colors? > > > > Again, nice work! > > > > Denny > > Janitor in Training > > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "toytrain13" <toytrain13@> wrote: > > > > > > Hi guys- I've just posted the "Richard's Red Ball Cars" folder in the Photos section. This folder shows the cars I've constructed from kits over the past two years. I have five more Red Ball kits waiting for the paint shop, when warmer weather arrives. I also have a completed Red Ball wrecking crane awaiting "stringing." > > > I once had a dozen kits I'd ordered from Howell Day in the sixties, and never constructed, and later sold. I got back into Red Ball when a friend brought a few kits to a TCA meeting and I bought a few. He had other Red Ball kits at home, and I arranged to buy all of them- about fifty, and I've been building them ever since. > > > Check out the folder! > > > Regards- Richard White > > > > -- Regards, Walter -- Regards, Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17197	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 8/16/2011
Subject: Re: Drill press [was Richard White's Red Ball car photo album]

Hi Richard, I believe you are saying that the template is against the painted side, not the back side. What I meant about using tape (in addition to the tape holding the AB side and the template together) was: did you find it necessary to use tape on the painted side to prevent chipping of the paint by the drill? Maybe you had no chipping issues. I am just a bit apprehensive. On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 6:41 PM, Richard White <toytrain13@...> wrote:   Hi Walter- I'm not certain what your meaning is, regarding the blue painter's tape. I place the template on the painted surface of the AB car side (I've carefully filed any burrs off the underside of the template) and then secure with a couple of pieces of blue tape to hold the template in place. The tape doesn't harm the painted car side. Incidentally, I use my magnifying OptiVisor for this kind of work. It really helps with the accuracy. I use SS wire for the handrails since the handrails on most streamlined cars were stainless. Regards- Richard    To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: bayerw2@... Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2011 17:44:02 -0400 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Drill press [was Richard White's Red Ball car photo album]   Thank you, Richard. I assume you drill from the front side, the painted side. Is there no need to put blue painters' tape over the painted side? I'll have to get that .018" SS wire. Walter On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 4:52 PM, Richard White <toytrain13@...> wrote:   Hi Walther- I've made a jig, out of thin brass sheet, with the four holes for the handrail locations (two per side of the door). It's essential that you make this very accurate, as all subsequent drilling will reflect this. One edge of the jig will align with the bottom of the car side, and the another will align with the end of the car side (but sometimes small alterations are required). I then tape (blue painters tape) the jig in the correct position at the door and then drill. When I drill through this jig the bit can't wander, and accuracy is assured. By the way, for Blue Line and American Beauty cars I use 0.018" stainless steel rod (from Small Parts, Inc.). I hope this helps. -Richard   To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: bayerw2@... Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2011 23:11:05 -0400 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Drill press [was Richard White's Red Ball car photo album]   Richard White, Any procedures, tricks, special safeguards, etc. to drilling those Am Beauty car sides to keep from chipping the finish and to keep the drill from wandering? Walter On Mon, Aug 15, 2011 at 10:42 PM, Richard White <toytrain13@...> wrote:   Hi Denny- I've so far had kits with well-preserved card sides. In addition to the semi-gloss clearcoat, I also carefully paint the edges of the cardstock sides prior to installation- black on the bottom and (usually) boxcar red on the ends. And my cars get very minimal handling. They've never been on a layout (all I have is a Timesaver switching layout). Of course, my Micro-Mark drill press is my indispensable tool in assembling these kits- as well as Blue Line, American Beauty and (old) Walthers kits. I paint using a Binks Wren B airbrush, although I occasionally think about an upgrade in the airbrush department.   Regards- Richard   To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: cwrailman@... Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2011 14:57:01 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Richard White's Red Ball car photo album   Richard, Obviously you and I must be marching to the beat of the same drummer as my methods in many respects mirror yours except for the choice of adhesives as I use Ambroid. Except for the cars I built when I first joined the hobby I also tend to upgrade the hardware and castings. IE, replacing the railings from the LaBelle open platform cars with Cal Scale platform railings and using Cal Scale brake hardware on almost everything. I use an old supply of Northeastern or now Tichy hand grabs for the cars. My paint mixing skills leave a bit to be desired as I have difficulty matching those old colors on the preprinted sides. I liked the idea of over spraying the sides of the car. Do you do any touchup to the sides or have you been lucky in finding kits with clean well preserved graphics? How much handling do your cars get? Operating sessions or… Any uneducated hands touching these cars? Again, nice work! Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Richard White <toytrain13@...> wrote: > > > Hi Denny- Thanks for your positive comments on my Red Ball album. I built the reefer and boxcar bodies with the 1/16" plywood flush with the bottom and end blocks, with 3/16" square basswood strips to position the plywood- checking often with my mini-straightedge! This results in super-strong bodies and prevents the card sides from warping. Then after painting the bodies I glue the sides on. I should also mention that I spray all of the card sides (exterior) with Testor's semi-gloss before installing them. I've only had one casting (a boxcar end) break when I "straightened" it.I've substituted Tichy ladders for the brass strip stock on all of the reefers and boxcars. Some cars have Cal-Scale brake cylinders, and most have Cal-Scale brake levers. I use 0.018" music wire for the brake rigging (from Small Parts, Inc.). I use this wire to form handgrabs too, in lieu of the staples included in the kits. I pre-blacken all this wire (with gun blue) before installing. Most of the reefers have Tichy hinges and Grandt Line latches. I've used Elmer's Carpenters Glue for assembly of all wood and cardstock parts. I used CAA to attach (plastic) ladders, reefer door hardware and various metal parts. I think I'll try Barge Cement instead of CAA in the future.I've tried to match the colors of the printed cardstock sides by eye- mixing Floquil boxcar red, tuscan and caboose red together as needed, and not always successfully. I've found that trying to lighten boxcar red, for instance, by adding reefer white, just results in a "muddy" shade. Sometimes I just say "good enough!"None of the boxcars have sliding doors. The doors are glued in position.Regards- Richard White To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > From: cwrailman@... > Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2011 16:55:18 +0000 > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Richard White's Red Ball car photo album > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Richard, > > > > Nice clean workmanship on those Red Ball cars. I don't know how I missed you original post but I am pleased it was brought to my attention again. > > > > I see you used plywood backing for some of the reefer cars. Nice idea. Have you had any issues with any of the old metal parts? > > > > In building the kits, except for trucks and couplers, do you use any components that were not originally included in the kit? > > > > What is the main glue that you use? > > > > Do you have any problems matching the original paint colors? > > > > Again, nice work! > > > > Denny > > Janitor in Training > > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "toytrain13" <toytrain13@> wrote: > > > > > > Hi guys- I've just posted the "Richard's Red Ball Cars" folder in the Photos section. This folder shows the cars I've constructed from kits over the past two years. I have five more Red Ball kits waiting for the paint shop, when warmer weather arrives. I also have a completed Red Ball wrecking crane awaiting "stringing." > > > I once had a dozen kits I'd ordered from Howell Day in the sixties, and never constructed, and later sold. I got back into Red Ball when a friend brought a few kits to a TCA meeting and I bought a few. He had other Red Ball kits at home, and I arranged to buy all of them- about fifty, and I've been building them ever since. > > > Check out the folder! > > > Regards- Richard White > > > > -- Regards, Walter -- Regards, Walter -- Regards, Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17198	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 8/16/2011
Subject: Re: Japanese Yard Switcher [4 Attachments]

----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Heckard" <jimheck@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2011 11:01 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Japanese Yard Switcher [4 Attachments] > > > > Yesterday I received item 160632168199 HO Railroad > Yard Work Engine 1960's Vintage I disassembled the engine , didn't > take much, to look for any writing. The only thing I found was on top of > the motor was KTM . The upper body is brass and the paint will be > stripped and the separation on the back left side of the cab will be > repaired. It needs a new coupler also. The engine is noisy due to the > set up of the vertical motor with it's gear " meshing " much like many > Japanese items like IMP. Very hard to adjust in or out do to some very > small screws. Just getting the drivers running without slipping might be > the best I can do. Remember I am that stubborn idiot that that will not > change things to make them run better. How they run is how they stay. > > Engine for now will stay brass till I find pictures of how they > were painted or if not factory painted I can do my own thing. > > Neat little engine. Might pull 3 cars. > > Jim H > > > > KTM produced just about every brass diesel ever imported into the US, from the early models such as yours through all the importers in the 70's and 80's such as Alco Models, Red Ball, Hallmark, Custom Brass etc. etc. etc. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17199	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 8/16/2011
Subject: Re: Vintage psgr cars

----- Original Message ----- From: "rcjge" <jgpedwards@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2011 4:56 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Vintage psgr cars >I know I wasn't being very specific, but really how can I be? But I >expected someone to show interest. Oh well.... > > -Gareth I may be interested in the Walthers car, but you really have to give us some indication of what they are. For example, I have NO interest in a Walthers 12 section pullman or a Varney cardstock 14 section pullman, I have both coming out of my ears, but if you had a Walthers 13 bedroom or 8 section pullman, or a Varney streamlined blue coach, I'd ask where to send the check in a minute. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17200	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 8/16/2011
Subject: Re: Vintage psgr cars

Hey Don: I'll try to do that in the next couple of days. I've gotta dig for some stuff to go to the LHS for the consignment shelf... to pay for my reserved Bowser, MLW C-630M's! Also hoping to crack a deal on another Unimat. -Gareth On 16 August 2011 19:28, Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote:   ----- Original Message ----- From: "rcjge" <jgpedwards@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2011 4:56 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Vintage psgr cars >I know I wasn't being very specific, but really how can I be? But I >expected someone to show interest. Oh well.... > > -Gareth I may be interested in the Walthers car, but you really have to give us some indication of what they are. For example, I have NO interest in a Walthers 12 section pullman or a Varney cardstock 14 section pullman, I have both coming out of my ears, but if you had a Walthers 13 bedroom or 8 section pullman, or a Varney streamlined blue coach, I'd ask where to send the check in a minute. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery -- "Clear Eyes, Full Heart, Can't Lose!"

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17201	From: Jay	Date: 8/17/2011
Subject: Re: Vintage Walthers Passenger cars

Hi Gareth, I actually had looked at my Walthers lists and have been doing a bit of research on the major phases of regular Walthers cars (in addition to the "pugs") as there was some discussion and questions about them just before before I resumed my activity here after I was off-line for a while. Briefly, Walthers HO passenger and freight car lines began circa 1937 when Walthers acquired Frank Taylor's line including the Baltic locomotive; Frank Taylor became a consultant or employee of Walthers and later editor of Model railroader and a partner in Globe. What we know as the Walthers heavyweight passenger cars first had embossed "Armite" sides which I believe to be a type of card or fiberboard. I call this phase one. I have never seen one and would be interested in getting a kit or even just the sides or a junker to restore. The next phase was when Walthers began manufacturing the sides out of the familiar tinplated steel, the sides had the early wide bottom flange that attached to the floor, but there were no rivits embossed into the tinplate. (Sinec I am writing this from memory and not the article I have draftered, I believe this is when the cast metal car ends were intoduced as well.) For rivets, one could glue embossed paper strips to the sides where appropriate. What I am provisionally calling the third phase was when Walthers began to emboss the rivets onto the sides. The large wide bottom flange was later eliminated in another improvement. Lastly, during the last decade of production, injection molded plastic roofs were infroduced to simplify construction. The CNW Doodlebug/Rail Motor Car production paralled all of the phases of passenger car types except for the first with Armite sides, and the last with plastic roof, so it can be found in tinplate with no rivits, with rivits and then without floor flange. As noted in previous June posts, the Rail Motor car sides also had subtle changes in baggage door width and number of windows that, (without my notes at hand which contain approximate dates each change was marketed), I believe corresponded to the other major changes in phase. To complicate matters, the Walthers Power trucks were upgraded frequently in construction and even gearing in the fisrt dozen years of production, making that one model a facinating mini-collecton in its own right (and why I began studying the passenger car construction phases). I always thought I had an extra Rail Motor Car to sell, but after mu study, realized I had one of each three major examples, and that disassembled old Walthers "passenger car" was actually a scarce earlier phase Doodlebug trailer! (Doodlebugs have differently milled roof profiles.) Lastly, in addition to the "standard line" of heavyweight cars, Walthers also produced a number of special cars, the Santa Fe prototype cars (which I believe one of out members has) and the Favorite Prototype series of about 10 kits which began circa 1959-1960 continuing several years and included PRR baggage car, horse car, etc. As far as boxes go, our Webmaster Don gave a good summary of the various Walthers passenger car boxes and eras sometime in the June posts. So yes, will be interested to see what you have, as will others, I'm sure! W. Jay W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "rcjge" <jgpedwards@...> wrote: > > I know I wasn't being very specific, but really how can I be? But I expected someone to show interest. Oh well.... > > -Gareth >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17202	From: Jay	Date: 8/17/2011
Subject: Need 1937 Walthers HO Catalog or copy!

Hi All! Writing about the Walthers passenger cars reminded me that I am still looking fo a copy of the 1937 Walthers HO catalog (or photocopy) and also lookin for the 1943 and 1944 combined O and HO Walthers catalogs, too! Please contact me off-list if you have one. Thanks. W. Jay W.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17203	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 8/17/2011
Subject: Re: Need 1937 Walthers HO Catalog or copy!

I might have one.. I am not sure. I know I have a really old Walthers catalog.   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: Jay <the_plainsman@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2011 8:09 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Need 1937 Walthers HO Catalog or copy!   Hi All! Writing about the Walthers passenger cars reminded me that I am still looking fo a copy of the 1937 Walthers HO catalog (or photocopy) and also lookin for the 1943 and 1944 combined O and HO Walthers catalogs, too! Please contact me off-list if you have one. Thanks. W. Jay W.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17204	From: Denny Anspach	Date: 8/17/2011
Subject: Re: Japanese Yard Switcher [4 Attachments]

KMT (Kumata) and KTM (Katsumi) were different and separate Japanese model shops, and I still get them mixed up. As has been noted the KTM motors were and are very good, if not as good as the Pittmans; while the KMT motors deserve pretty rigorous due diligence- some good, even very, very good; while most are candidates for replacement. Most notably, the Max Gray, Westside, Balboa models were KTM, while NPP, NJ Custom Brass and most diesels were made by KMT. The KTM models overall have held up very well over the years in all respects and many soldier on with great respect in today's critical DCC world. The KMT models were very well built, built to differing price points for different importers, but none of the powered models had the most refined power and drive engineering even for the day, making them pretty rare birds on most of today's operating layouts unless they have been greatly modified. Denny Denny S. Anspach, MD Okoboji, Iowa

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17205	From: rcjge	Date: 8/17/2011
Subject: Re: Vintage psgr cars

Hey Don, Jay, Anon... I came across the Walthers kit. The Instruction sheet says It's a Pennsy 80' Diner car PRR class D78C Walther's #7815 The box label says the same thing. The box smells musty, the car not. It has wood floors/roof, metal sides. The Varney is a PA-300 Pullman. Embossed sides, wood floor, roof and a spare shorter Pullman roof. Anyway hope that helps. Yes I will try and photo these later for you guys... -Gareth --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "J. Gareth Edwards" <jgpedwards@...> wrote: > > Hey Don: > > I'll try to do that in the next couple of days. I've gotta dig for some > stuff to go to the LHS for the consignment shelf... to pay for my reserved > Bowser, MLW C-630M's! > > Also hoping to crack a deal on another Unimat. > > -Gareth > > On 16 August 2011 19:28, Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "rcjge" <jgpedwards@...> > > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2011 4:56 PM > > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Vintage psgr cars > > > > >I know I wasn't being very specific, but really how can I be? But I > > >expected someone to show interest. Oh well.... > > > > > > -Gareth > > > > I may be interested in the Walthers car, but you really have to give us > > some > > indication of what they are. For example, I have NO interest in a Walthers > > 12 section pullman or a Varney cardstock 14 section pullman, I have both > > coming out of my ears, but if you had a Walthers 13 bedroom or 8 section > > pullman, or a Varney streamlined blue coach, I'd ask where to send the > > check > > in a minute. > > > > Don > > > > Don Dellmann > > don.dellmann@... > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ > > http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction > > Owner > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery > > > > > > > > > > -- > "Clear Eyes, Full Heart, Can't Lose!" >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17207	From: Richard White	Date: 8/17/2011
Subject: Re: Drill press [was Richard White's Red Ball car photo album]

Hi Walther- No, I've never had any chipping issues. By the way, the steel sides are quite soft, so the drilling goes very quickly. Regards- Richard   To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: bayerw2@... Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2011 19:10:26 -0400 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Drill press [was Richard White's Red Ball car photo album]   Hi Richard, I believe you are saying that the template is against the painted side, not the back side. What I meant about using tape (in addition to the tape holding the AB side and the template together) was: did you find it necessary to use tape on the painted side to prevent chipping of the paint by the drill? Maybe you had no chipping issues. I am just a bit apprehensive. On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 6:41 PM, Richard White <toytrain13@...> wrote:   Hi Walter- I'm not certain what your meaning is, regarding the blue painter's tape. I place the template on the painted surface of the AB car side (I've carefully filed any burrs off the underside of the template) and then secure with a couple of pieces of blue tape to hold the template in place. The tape doesn't harm the painted car side. Incidentally, I use my magnifying OptiVisor for this kind of work. It really helps with the accuracy. I use SS wire for the handrails since the handrails on most streamlined cars were stainless. Regards- Richard    To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: bayerw2@... Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2011 17:44:02 -0400 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Drill press [was Richard White's Red Ball car photo album]   Thank you, Richard. I assume you drill from the front side, the painted side. Is there no need to put blue painters' tape over the painted side? I'll have to get that .018" SS wire. Walter On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 4:52 PM, Richard White <toytrain13@...> wrote:   Hi Walther- I've made a jig, out of thin brass sheet, with the four holes for the handrail locations (two per side of the door). It's essential that you make this very accurate, as all subsequent drilling will reflect this. One edge of the jig will align with the bottom of the car side, and the another will align with the end of the car side (but sometimes small alterations are required). I then tape (blue painters tape) the jig in the correct position at the door and then drill. When I drill through this jig the bit can't wander, and accuracy is assured. By the way, for Blue Line and American Beauty cars I use 0.018" stainless steel rod (from Small Parts, Inc.). I hope this helps. -Richard   To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: bayerw2@... Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2011 23:11:05 -0400 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Drill press [was Richard White's Red Ball car photo album]   Richard White, Any procedures, tricks, special safeguards, etc. to drilling those Am Beauty car sides to keep from chipping the finish and to keep the drill from wandering? Walter On Mon, Aug 15, 2011 at 10:42 PM, Richard White <toytrain13@...> wrote:   Hi Denny- I've so far had kits with well-preserved card sides. In addition to the semi-gloss clearcoat, I also carefully paint the edges of the cardstock sides prior to installation- black on the bottom and (usually) boxcar red on the ends. And my cars get very minimal handling. They've never been on a layout (all I have is a Timesaver switching layout). Of course, my Micro-Mark drill press is my indispensable tool in assembling these kits- as well as Blue Line, American Beauty and (old) Walthers kits. I paint using a Binks Wren B airbrush, although I occasionally think about an upgrade in the airbrush department.   Regards- Richard   To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: cwrailman@... Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2011 14:57:01 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Richard White's Red Ball car photo album   Richard, Obviously you and I must be marching to the beat of the same drummer as my methods in many respects mirror yours except for the choice of adhesives as I use Ambroid. Except for the cars I built when I first joined the hobby I also tend to upgrade the hardware and castings. IE, replacing the railings from the LaBelle open platform cars with Cal Scale platform railings and using Cal Scale brake hardware on almost everything. I use an old supply of Northeastern or now Tichy hand grabs for the cars. My paint mixing skills leave a bit to be desired as I have difficulty matching those old colors on the preprinted sides. I liked the idea of over spraying the sides of the car. Do you do any touchup to the sides or have you been lucky in finding kits with clean well preserved graphics? How much handling do your cars get? Operating sessions or… Any uneducated hands touching these cars? Again, nice work! Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Richard White <toytrain13@...> wrote: > > > Hi Denny- Thanks for your positive comments on my Red Ball album. I built the reefer and boxcar bodies with the 1/16" plywood flush with the bottom and end blocks, with 3/16" square basswood strips to position the plywood- checking often with my mini-straightedge! This results in super-strong bodies and prevents the card sides from warping. Then after painting the bodies I glue the sides on. I should also mention that I spray all of the card sides (exterior) with Testor's semi-gloss before installing them. I've only had one casting (a boxcar end) break when I "straightened" it.I've substituted Tichy ladders for the brass strip stock on all of the reefers and boxcars. Some cars have Cal-Scale brake cylinders, and most have Cal-Scale brake levers. I use 0.018" music wire for the brake rigging (from Small Parts, Inc.). I use this wire to form handgrabs too, in lieu of the staples included in the kits. I pre-blacken all this wire (with gun blue) before installing. Most of the reefers have Tichy hinges and Grandt Line latches. I've used Elmer's Carpenters Glue for assembly of all wood and cardstock parts. I used CAA to attach (plastic) ladders, reefer door hardware and various metal parts. I think I'll try Barge Cement instead of CAA in the future.I've tried to match the colors of the printed cardstock sides by eye- mixing Floquil boxcar red, tuscan and caboose red together as needed, and not always successfully. I've found that trying to lighten boxcar red, for instance, by adding reefer white, just results in a "muddy" shade. Sometimes I just say "good enough!"None of the boxcars have sliding doors. The doors are glued in position.Regards- Richard White To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > From: cwrailman@... > Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2011 16:55:18 +0000 > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Richard White's Red Ball car photo album > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Richard, > > > > Nice clean workmanship on those Red Ball cars. I don't know how I missed you original post but I am pleased it was brought to my attention again. > > > > I see you used plywood backing for some of the reefer cars. Nice idea. Have you had any issues with any of the old metal parts? > > > > In building the kits, except for trucks and couplers, do you use any components that were not originally included in the kit? > > > > What is the main glue that you use? > > > > Do you have any problems matching the original paint colors? > > > > Again, nice work! > > > > Denny > > Janitor in Training > > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "toytrain13" <toytrain13@> wrote: > > > > > > Hi guys- I've just posted the "Richard's Red Ball Cars" folder in the Photos section. This folder shows the cars I've constructed from kits over the past two years. I have five more Red Ball kits waiting for the paint shop, when warmer weather arrives. I also have a completed Red Ball wrecking crane awaiting "stringing." > > > I once had a dozen kits I'd ordered from Howell Day in the sixties, and never constructed, and later sold. I got back into Red Ball when a friend brought a few kits to a TCA meeting and I bought a few. He had other Red Ball kits at home, and I arranged to buy all of them- about fifty, and I've been building them ever since. > > > Check out the folder! > > > Regards- Richard White > > > > -- Regards, Walter -- Regards, Walter -- Regards, Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17208	From: Jay	Date: 8/17/2011
Subject: Re: Unknown Make Japanese Built Metal and Plastic Cars

Hi Steve N., Looked at your photos a second time and still draw a blank. I noticed that those NH and PFE reporting marks are a bit oversized - perhaps the cars might be from a set manufactured overseas for sale through one of the large "wish book" catalogs? Hope someone else may have a clue. W. Jay W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote: > > Jay, > > Thanks for your help. > > All, > > I got my camera going again and am attaching some pics of the cars. Look familiar to anyone? > > Seems there has been some interesting discussions over the years of the early Japanese imports! > > -Steve Neubaum > > > > ________________________________ > From: Jay <the_plainsman@...> > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, August 9, 2011 9:45 AM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Unknown Make Japanese Built Metal and Plastic Cars > > >   > Steve, as a follow up, just checked the International '54 catalog (freight cars beginning on HOSeeker page 5 or 6) and the '56 International(beginning on HO Seeker page 15) and while they had at least three different lines of freight cars (the familiar flat box stamped metal kits, an all brass assembled line and the cast metal "Kustom-Bilt" line (not "Redi-Bilt" as I mis-spoke) they seemd to stress "All Metal" construction and there are no combination metal and plastic freight cars cataloged in those two editions that I could find. > > There is not much information on New One in HO Seeker, and of the few instructions there, only one set of instructions (in the HOSeeker Misc. section) shows an all metal reefer, but those instructions look old, there could have been a later run as well. > > Hopefully someone with more information and knowledge can help. > > W Jay W. > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Jay" <the_plainsman@> wrote: > > > > Hi Steve, > > > > Hard to say, but since your boxcars have a combination of metal sides and plastic floors, roof, ends, that eliminates the all stamped metal flat kits International brought in (construction similar to Athearn or Globe) as well as the Tenshodo kits or assembled cars (constructed similar to Varney's all metal line). International had a later line of "Ready Bilt"(sp) freight cars that are all cast metal, or at least the hopper and caboose I have are. > > > > I do have a New One gondola that is constructed of a combination of materials including black (tenite?) plastic sides, so possibly that reefer and boxcar were made by them. New One usually marked their name on an inconspicuous place in fine lettters on the inside parts of their freight or old time passenger cars: "New One." So look carefully inside that box car with a pen flashlight and see if you can find anything. I would also check those late 1950's International catalogs at HOSEEKER. > > > > That's the best I can do right now, but find those few early imported freight cars and kits to be an interesting part of my collection. > > > > W. Jay W. > > > > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@> wrote: > > > > > > Group, > > > > > > Recently I bought some assorted lots of HO trains (Made between the 1940s and 1960s mostly). There are two cars I have absolutely no idea who made: > > > > > > First is a New Haven 40' boxcar. Roughly the size of a Varney sheet metal car. The sides are metal and have opening doors, and the deck, ends, roof, and seperate ladders are plastic. The underside of the deck is marked "Made in Japan". There is a screw in the center of the roof that screws the body together, via a boss in the doors. Truck sideframes are similar to Mantua, as is the truck bolsters. However, they are not Mantua. Couplers are X2F Horn-Hooks that use a screw-on coupler pocket that is oversize for Kadees to properly work, though I can replace the coupler box with a Kadee #5 and its box easily. > > > > > > The second is a light yellow PFE 40' steel reefer. The non-operating swing doors appear wider than scale. Otherwise overall same consturction as the boxcar. > > > > > > I would include a picture, but my camera needs batteries (Was meaning to go to the store today to buy some, but didn't have the time). I could include a picture sometime soon though. > > > > > > Any guesses on make. I don't think they are Tenshodo, as the instructions on HOseeker don't match what I have for the boxcar - Tenshodo's instructions show a seperate roofwalk and landing pads. Mine are cast into the roof. > > > > > > Thanks in advance! > > > -Steve Neubaum > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17209	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 8/17/2011
Subject: Re: Drill press [was Richard White's Red Ball car photo album]

Good to know, both on the chipping and the soft steel. Thank you very much! On Wed, Aug 17, 2011 at 2:03 PM, Richard White <toytrain13@...> wrote:   Hi Walther- No, I've never had any chipping issues. By the way, the steel sides are quite soft, so the drilling goes very quickly. Regards- Richard   To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: bayerw2@... Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2011 19:10:26 -0400 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Drill press [was Richard White's Red Ball car photo album]   Hi Richard, I believe you are saying that the template is against the painted side, not the back side. What I meant about using tape (in addition to the tape holding the AB side and the template together) was: did you find it necessary to use tape on the painted side to prevent chipping of the paint by the drill? Maybe you had no chipping issues. I am just a bit apprehensive. On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 6:41 PM, Richard White <toytrain13@...> wrote:   Hi Walter- I'm not certain what your meaning is, regarding the blue painter's tape. I place the template on the painted surface of the AB car side (I've carefully filed any burrs off the underside of the template) and then secure with a couple of pieces of blue tape to hold the template in place. The tape doesn't harm the painted car side. Incidentally, I use my magnifying OptiVisor for this kind of work. It really helps with the accuracy. I use SS wire for the handrails since the handrails on most streamlined cars were stainless. Regards- Richard    To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: bayerw2@... Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2011 17:44:02 -0400 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Drill press [was Richard White's Red Ball car photo album]   Thank you, Richard. I assume you drill from the front side, the painted side. Is there no need to put blue painters' tape over the painted side? I'll have to get that .018" SS wire. Walter On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 4:52 PM, Richard White <toytrain13@...> wrote:   Hi Walther- I've made a jig, out of thin brass sheet, with the four holes for the handrail locations (two per side of the door). It's essential that you make this very accurate, as all subsequent drilling will reflect this. One edge of the jig will align with the bottom of the car side, and the another will align with the end of the car side (but sometimes small alterations are required). I then tape (blue painters tape) the jig in the correct position at the door and then drill. When I drill through this jig the bit can't wander, and accuracy is assured. By the way, for Blue Line and American Beauty cars I use 0.018" stainless steel rod (from Small Parts, Inc.). I hope this helps. -Richard   To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: bayerw2@... Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2011 23:11:05 -0400 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Drill press [was Richard White's Red Ball car photo album]   Richard White, Any procedures, tricks, special safeguards, etc. to drilling those Am Beauty car sides to keep from chipping the finish and to keep the drill from wandering? Walter On Mon, Aug 15, 2011 at 10:42 PM, Richard White <toytrain13@...> wrote:   Hi Denny- I've so far had kits with well-preserved card sides. In addition to the semi-gloss clearcoat, I also carefully paint the edges of the cardstock sides prior to installation- black on the bottom and (usually) boxcar red on the ends. And my cars get very minimal handling. They've never been on a layout (all I have is a Timesaver switching layout). Of course, my Micro-Mark drill press is my indispensable tool in assembling these kits- as well as Blue Line, American Beauty and (old) Walthers kits. I paint using a Binks Wren B airbrush, although I occasionally think about an upgrade in the airbrush department.   Regards- Richard   To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: cwrailman@... Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2011 14:57:01 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Richard White's Red Ball car photo album   Richard, Obviously you and I must be marching to the beat of the same drummer as my methods in many respects mirror yours except for the choice of adhesives as I use Ambroid. Except for the cars I built when I first joined the hobby I also tend to upgrade the hardware and castings. IE, replacing the railings from the LaBelle open platform cars with Cal Scale platform railings and using Cal Scale brake hardware on almost everything. I use an old supply of Northeastern or now Tichy hand grabs for the cars. My paint mixing skills leave a bit to be desired as I have difficulty matching those old colors on the preprinted sides. I liked the idea of over spraying the sides of the car. Do you do any touchup to the sides or have you been lucky in finding kits with clean well preserved graphics? How much handling do your cars get? Operating sessions or… Any uneducated hands touching these cars? Again, nice work! Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Richard White <toytrain13@...> wrote: > > > Hi Denny- Thanks for your positive comments on my Red Ball album. I built the reefer and boxcar bodies with the 1/16" plywood flush with the bottom and end blocks, with 3/16" square basswood strips to position the plywood- checking often with my mini-straightedge! This results in super-strong bodies and prevents the card sides from warping. Then after painting the bodies I glue the sides on. I should also mention that I spray all of the card sides (exterior) with Testor's semi-gloss before installing them. I've only had one casting (a boxcar end) break when I "straightened" it.I've substituted Tichy ladders for the brass strip stock on all of the reefers and boxcars. Some cars have Cal-Scale brake cylinders, and most have Cal-Scale brake levers. I use 0.018" music wire for the brake rigging (from Small Parts, Inc.). I use this wire to form handgrabs too, in lieu of the staples included in the kits. I pre-blacken all this wire (with gun blue) before installing. Most of the reefers have Tichy hinges and Grandt Line latches. I've used Elmer's Carpenters Glue for assembly of all wood and cardstock parts. I used CAA to attach (plastic) ladders, reefer door hardware and various metal parts. I think I'll try Barge Cement instead of CAA in the future.I've tried to match the colors of the printed cardstock sides by eye- mixing Floquil boxcar red, tuscan and caboose red together as needed, and not always successfully. I've found that trying to lighten boxcar red, for instance, by adding reefer white, just results in a "muddy" shade. Sometimes I just say "good enough!"None of the boxcars have sliding doors. The doors are glued in position.Regards- Richard White To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > From: cwrailman@... > Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2011 16:55:18 +0000 > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Richard White's Red Ball car photo album > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Richard, > > > > Nice clean workmanship on those Red Ball cars. I don't know how I missed you original post but I am pleased it was brought to my attention again. > > > > I see you used plywood backing for some of the reefer cars. Nice idea. Have you had any issues with any of the old metal parts? > > > > In building the kits, except for trucks and couplers, do you use any components that were not originally included in the kit? > > > > What is the main glue that you use? > > > > Do you have any problems matching the original paint colors? > > > > Again, nice work! > > > > Denny > > Janitor in Training > > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "toytrain13" <toytrain13@> wrote: > > > > > > Hi guys- I've just posted the "Richard's Red Ball Cars" folder in the Photos section. This folder shows the cars I've constructed from kits over the past two years. I have five more Red Ball kits waiting for the paint shop, when warmer weather arrives. I also have a completed Red Ball wrecking crane awaiting "stringing." > > > I once had a dozen kits I'd ordered from Howell Day in the sixties, and never constructed, and later sold. I got back into Red Ball when a friend brought a few kits to a TCA meeting and I bought a few. He had other Red Ball kits at home, and I arranged to buy all of them- about fifty, and I've been building them ever since. > > > Check out the folder! > > > Regards- Richard White > > > > -- Regards, Walter -- Regards, Walter -- Regards, Walter -- Regards, Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17210	From: cwrailman	Date: 8/17/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers passenger car kits for sale

I've still got these cars for sale. If anyone is interested in making me an offer on any of these please let me know. I will improve on the price if you are interested in two or more. Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "cwrailman" <cwrailman@...> wrote: > > I've decided to focus on building my collecton of LaBelle, Westwood and > Ambroid passenger cars and sell my collection of steel sided Walthers > and JC passenger car kits. Prior to listing them on eBay I decided to > give our board members a crack at them. The quoted prices are a bit > lower than I will be asking on eBay. Here is a listing of the kits I > have for sale. If you have any questions PLEASE CONTACT ME OFF LINE. > > Walthers $18 per car for our board members plus postage > 6629 Has Walthers employee number 1 on 1947 packing slip > 6632 Postal > 6641 Has Walthers employee number 1 on 1947 packing slip > 6663 Santa Fe Business car > 7802 Pullman 12 Section > 7811 Pullman 8 Section > 7816 Pullman 10 Section > > JC Models $15 per car for our board members plus postage some packaging > is damaged > HO-9 NYC Baggage > HO-11 Baggage Combine SP > HO-12 12 Section Pullman > RPO SP > > Denny > Janitor in Training > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17211	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 8/17/2011
Subject: Re: Vintage psgr cars

Sorry, can't use 'em, I've already got two of the diners (although if nobody else wants it I could be talked into it if the price is right), and five of the Varney pullmans. :-( Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "rcjge" <jgpedwards@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2011 9:49 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Vintage psgr cars > Hey Don, Jay, Anon... > > I came across the Walthers kit. The Instruction sheet says It's a Pennsy > 80' Diner car PRR class D78C Walther's #7815 The box label says the same > thing. The box smells musty, the car not. It has wood floors/roof, metal > sides. > > The Varney is a PA-300 Pullman. Embossed sides, wood floor, roof and a > spare shorter Pullman roof. > > Anyway hope that helps. Yes I will try and photo these later for you > guys... > > -Gareth > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "J. Gareth Edwards" <jgpedwards@...> > wrote: >> >> Hey Don: >> >> I'll try to do that in the next couple of days. I've gotta dig for some >> stuff to go to the LHS for the consignment shelf... to pay for my >> reserved >> Bowser, MLW C-630M's! >> >> Also hoping to crack a deal on another Unimat. >> >> -Gareth >> >> On 16 August 2011 19:28, Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote: >> >> > ** >> > >> > >> > >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: "rcjge" <jgpedwards@...> >> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> >> > Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2011 4:56 PM >> > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Vintage psgr cars >> > >> > >I know I wasn't being very specific, but really how can I be? But I >> > >expected someone to show interest. Oh well.... >> > > >> > > -Gareth >> > >> > I may be interested in the Walthers car, but you really have to give us >> > some >> > indication of what they are. For example, I have NO interest in a >> > Walthers >> > 12 section pullman or a Varney cardstock 14 section pullman, I have >> > both >> > coming out of my ears, but if you had a Walthers 13 bedroom or 8 >> > section >> > pullman, or a Varney streamlined blue coach, I'd ask where to send the >> > check >> > in a minute. >> > >> > Don >> > >> > Don Dellmann >> > don.dellmann@... >> > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ >> > http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction >> > Owner >> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO >> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery >> > >> > >> > >> >> >> >> -- >> "Clear Eyes, Full Heart, Can't Lose!" >> > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17212	From: Jay	Date: 8/18/2011
Subject: Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology

Walthers Heavyweight Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology A few days ago I offered an off-the-cuff 45+ year chronology of the Walthers Passenger car line without having my data at hand, so I went to the notes and history I have drafted along with my mostly complete library of Walthers catalogs from 1938-1950 and some from 1960 and later and offer this brief chronology.  (A summary appears at the end.) Wm. "Bill" Walthers always had a knack for spotting good smaller manufacturers, buying them out and making improvements to those products as part of his line. He began by purchasing Frank Taylor's "Taylor-Made" HO line consisting of the Milwaukee Baltic locomotive and a number of passenger and freight cars and Frank Taylor became an employee for a time before becoming the editor of Model Railroader magazine. Walthers 1938 HO Catalog, the earliest I have, describes the new Walthers passenger car line as follows: "TAYLOR-MADE passenger cars are accurate to scale and the most realistic HO models on the market. Car sides and sash are now made of Armite which is tough and durable. Window and door openings are punched out clean, belt rail and doors are depressed. Roof, floor and ends are made of wood, milled to size. Diaphragms are made of folded paper with metal rubbing plate. Details include: roof and underbelly details, diecast steps, couplers, triple valve, generator and air brake cylinder. All trucks come assembled. Paint, transfersand drawings included." Interesting to note the phrasing that "Car sides and sash are now made of Armite;" does this mean that they were originally made of perhaps plain card sides like the freight cars during Taylor's production or possibly even the first year of Walthers production? In 1938 Walthers cataloged passenger cars in the 5600 series, with 13 different types and 8 additional paint/decal variations, for a total of 21 different kits.  The CNW gas electric was also listed in the 5600 series and it may be logically assumed for the present that it also had Armite sides as the listing states, "Plan of construction and design of parts is the same as for our passenger cars." For reason that will be clear later, I have nominally labeled these "Armite" sided passenger cars with wood ends, "Phase 1 cars." In his 1939 HO catalog (#3), Walthers dropped the references to the "Taylor-Made" line and opened the passenger car page with this modified quote, " Without a .doubt, the Walthers' line of HO passenger car models are the most realistic miniature cars ever offered." The description of materials is the same as the precious year, however, and this also includes the gas electric. The 1940 Walthers HO Catalog announced the first major change in passenger car construction with the introduction of embossed tinplate sides and cast metal ends. Walthers states, "For some time we have been working on a redesigned HO passenger car to get away from the use of armite sides and give the HO cars some of the outstanding features of our O gauge line." He continued below, "The features of these new cars include: highly detailed die cast ends with lugs for attaching the roof and the floor, pressed metal sides with panel doors and windows and embossed letterboard and belt rail. The sides are channeled so they may be attached to the underside of the floor and roof..." Eleven different types of cars were listed, now numbered in the 6600 series. I have nominally labeled these first embossed tinplate sided cars (without embossed rivets) "Phase II cars." In 1940, the CNW gas electric was still listed in the 5600 series but the description was unchanged from previous years, "Plan of construction and design of parts is the same as for our passenger cars." For now, it will be difficult to conclusively say when the change from Armite to tinplate side occurred, (Phase I to Phase II) but it might have been concurrent with the regular passenger car change. The construction of 6600 series of Walthers passenger cars essentially continued virtually unchanged from the 1940 catalog through the 1949 catalog, though in that year there were now 21 different types. However, in 1942 first mention was made that "Rivet effect is obtained by applying paper overlay with scale embossed paper rivets."   I suppose that Walthers was feeling the heat from his competItors like Varney, whose heavyweights featured finely embossed rivets on their sides. . Though it was sold with Phase II construction, namely cars now having embossed tinplate sides, but without rivets similar to the 6600 passenger cars, the CNW Gas Electric was still inexplicably numbered in the 5600 series! 1950 saw the next major change in Walthers passenger car construction - rivets!  In the introduction to the Passenger car section, Walthers states, " The new 7600 series of HO passenger cars (and the 7500 series traction kits) are marvels for detail..." The caption next to an enlarged photo of a portion of a car side notes the embossed rivets. The top and bottom of the side was still "folded" to permit easy mounting to floor and roof. Twenty-eight different car types and roof configurations were cataloged. I have nominally labeled these first embossed tinplate sided cars (without embossed rivets) "Phase III cars." In 1950, the CNW gas electric numbering was changed to the 6450 series with a new matching trailer listed in the 7600 series. This is likely when the riveted sided appeared, matching the changes in the regular passenger line. The Walthers line continued through the 1950's without much change to the passenger car line construction, with the notable exception of the special "Pug" Passenger cars and the Shuttle Jack. However, new window configurations were introduced in the regular passenger car line based upon various prototypes. The 1960 Walthers HO catalog heralded the next major change in standard passenger car construction which affected both the car sides and roof profile and a introduced a new number series, the 7800's. First, the sides had a "New straight design (not folded under at bottom) makes it easy to detail the underbelly." "Goo" was promoted for assembly. The roof cross section was substantially changed as well, considerably higher , quote, "to match the old J-C cars and present day models..." The new roof part number was M381 while the old, lower profile, M-133 was still available separately for those who wanted to match their older Walthers cars. I have read somewhere that the original Walthers, AKA Taylor-Made passenger cars were scaled 1/8" to the foot and not 3.5 mm. Would that account for the fact that the Walthers roofs were always a bit low in comparison to other scale dimentioned HO passenger cars? I have nominally labeled these  "Phase IV cars." The early 1960's also saw many additional types of passenger cars, such as the Favorite Prototype series, but construction technique and material reflected that of the standard (not Pug) line, though in some cases, special car ends (horse car) were made.. The last notable change to the standard line of Walthers passenger cars occurred in the 1970's(?) When molded plastic roof sections were made available. I would label them Phase V cars. While not a complete Walther's passenger car history, this information, along with Don's detailed description of Walthers kit box designs, will allow one to make a good estimate of when a particular kit or model was manufactured over their 45+ year run. Summary - Walthers Passenger Car Construction (by catalog date) 1937(?)-1939; Armite (card or fibre) sides, wood roof floor and ends; 5600 series, (Phase I) 1940-1949; Tinplated steel sides with top and bottom fold;  no rivets or with paper rivet strips; cast white metal ends; 6600 series, (Phase II) 1950-1959; Tinplated steel sides with top and bottom fold; with embossed rivets; cast white metal ends, wood roof and floor; 7600 series, (Phase III) 1960-?: Tinplated steel sides without bottom fold; with embossed rivets; cast white metal ends, new high profile wood roof, floor; 7800 series, (Phase IV) 1970's(?)-end: Tinplated steel sides without bottom fold; embossed rivets; cast white metal ends, plastic roof, wood floor; 7800 series, (Phase V) Please recognize that this information is not complete or final and subject to revision as more information becomes available (or I am corrected, lol!) . Walthers name (C) copyright Walthers. The presentation of factual information, personal descriptions and conclusions are (C) 2011 W. Jay Wanczyk. Whew! W. Jay W.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17213	From: Jay	Date: 8/18/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology

Correction!  In paragraph 14 exchange  the last sentence, "I have nominally labeled these first embossed tinplate sided cars (without embossed rivets) "Phase III cars."  with "I have nominally labeled these second generation tinplate sided cars WITH embossed rivets, "Phase III Cars". Sorry, no matter how many time one proofreads, there is always an error that rears its ugly head after "send' is clicked. The summary at the end is OK   Jay        --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Jay" <the_plainsman@...> wrote: > > > Walthers Heavyweight Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology > > A few days ago I offered an off-the-cuff 45+ year chronology of the > Walthers Passenger car line without having my data at hand, so I went to > the notes and history I have drafted along with my mostly complete > library of Walthers catalogs from 1938-1950 and some from 1960 and later > and offer this brief chronology. (A summary appears at the end.) > > Wm. "Bill" Walthers always had a knack for spotting good smaller > manufacturers, buying them out and making improvements to those products > as part of his line. He began by purchasing Frank Taylor's > "Taylor-Made" HO line consisting of the Milwaukee Baltic locomotive and > a number of passenger and freight cars and Frank Taylor became an > employee for a time before becoming the editor of Model Railroader > magazine. > > Walthers 1938 HO Catalog, the earliest I have, describes the new > Walthers passenger car line as follows: > > "TAYLOR-MADE passenger cars are accurate to scale and the most realistic > HO models on the market. Car sides and sash are now made of Armite which > is tough and durable. Window and door openings are punched out clean, > belt rail and doors are depressed. Roof, floor and ends are made of > wood, milled to size. Diaphragms are made of folded paper with metal > rubbing plate. Details include: roof and underbelly details, diecast > steps, couplers, triple valve, generator and air brake cylinder. All > trucks come assembled. Paint, transfersand drawings included." > > Interesting to note the phrasing that "Car sides and sash are now made > of Armite;" does this mean that they were originally made of perhaps > plain card sides like the freight cars during Taylor's production or > possibly even the first year of Walthers production? > > In 1938 Walthers cataloged passenger cars in the 5600 series, with 13 > different types and 8 additional paint/decal variations, for a total of > 21 different kits. The CNW gas electric was also listed in the 5600 > series and it may be logically assumed for the present that it also had > Armite sides as the listing states, "Plan of construction and design of > parts is the same as for our passenger cars." For reason that will be > clear later, I have nominally labeled these "Armite" sided passenger > cars with wood ends, "Phase 1 cars." > > In his 1939 HO catalog (#3), Walthers dropped the references to the > "Taylor-Made" line and opened the passenger car page with this modified > quote, " Without a .doubt, the Walthers' line of HO passenger car > models are the most realistic miniature cars ever offered." The > description of materials is the same as the precious year, however, and > this also includes the gas electric. > > The 1940 Walthers HO Catalog announced the first major change in > passenger car construction with the introduction of embossed tinplate > sides and cast metal ends. > > Walthers states, "For some time we have been working on a redesigned HO > passenger car to get away from the use of armite sides and give the HO > cars some of the outstanding features of our O gauge line." He continued > below, "The features of these new cars include: highly detailed die cast > ends with lugs for attaching the roof and the floor, pressed metal sides > with panel doors and windows and embossed letterboard and belt rail. The > sides are channeled so they may be attached to the underside of the > floor and roof..." > > Eleven different types of cars were listed, now numbered in the 6600 > series. I have nominally labeled these first embossed tinplate sided > cars (without embossed rivets) "Phase II cars." > > In 1940, the CNW gas electric was still listed in the 5600 series but > the description was unchanged from previous years, "Plan of construction > and design of parts is the same as for our passenger cars." For now, it > will be difficult to conclusively say when the change from Armite to > tinplate side occurred, (Phase I to Phase II) but it might have been > concurrent with the regular passenger car change. > > The construction of 6600 series of Walthers passenger cars essentially > continued virtually unchanged from the 1940 catalog through the 1949 > catalog, though in that year there were now 21 different types. However, > in 1942 first mention was made that "Rivet effect is obtained by > applying paper overlay with scale embossed paper rivets." I suppose > that Walthers was feeling the heat from his competItors like Varney, > whose heavyweights featured finely embossed rivets on their sides. . > > Though it was sold with Phase II construction, namely cars now having > embossed tinplate sides, but without rivets similar to the 6600 > passenger cars, the CNW Gas Electric was still inexplicably numbered in > the 5600 series! > > 1950 saw the next major change in Walthers passenger car construction - > rivets! In the introduction to the Passenger car section, Walthers > states, " The new 7600 series of HO passenger cars (and the 7500 series > traction kits) are marvels for detail..." The caption next to an > enlarged photo of a portion of a car side notes the embossed rivets. The > top and bottom of the side was still "folded" to permit easy mounting to > floor and roof. Twenty-eight different car types and roof configurations > were cataloged. I have nominally labeled these first embossed tinplate > sided cars (without embossed rivets) "Phase III cars." > > In 1950, the CNW gas electric numbering was changed to the 6450 series > with a new matching trailer listed in the 7600 series. This is likely > when the riveted sided appeared, matching the changes in the regular > passenger line. > > The Walthers line continued through the 1950's without much change > to the passenger car line construction, with the notable exception of > the special "Pug" Passenger cars and the Shuttle Jack. However, new > window configurations were introduced in the regular passenger car line > based upon various prototypes. > > The 1960 Walthers HO catalog heralded the next major change in standard > passenger car construction which affected both the car sides and roof > profile and a introduced a new number series, the 7800's. First, the > sides had a "New straight design (not folded under at bottom) makes it > easy to detail the underbelly." "Goo" was promoted for assembly. > > The roof cross section was substantially changed as well, considerably > higher , quote, "to match the old J-C cars and present day models..." > The new roof part number was M381 while the old, lower profile, M-133 > was still available separately for those who wanted to match their older > Walthers cars. I have read somewhere that the original Walthers, AKA > Taylor-Made passenger cars were scaled 1/8" to the foot and not 3.5 mm. > Would that account for the fact that the Walthers roofs were always a > bit low in comparison to other scale dimentioned HO passenger cars? > > I have nominally labeled these "Phase IV cars." > > The early 1960's also saw many additional types of passenger cars, > such as the Favorite Prototype series, but construction technique and > material reflected that of the standard (not Pug) line, though in some > cases, special car ends (horse car) were made.. > > The last notable change to the standard line of Walthers passenger cars > occurred in the 1970's(?) When molded plastic roof sections were > made available. I would label them Phase V cars. > > While not a complete Walther's passenger car history, this > information, along with Don's detailed description of Walthers kit box > designs, will allow one to make a good estimate of when a particular kit > or model was manufactured over their 45+ year run. > > Summary - Walthers Passenger Car Construction (by catalog date) > > 1937(?)-1939; Armite (card or fibre) sides, wood roof floor and ends; > 5600 series, (Phase I) > > 1940-1949; Tinplated steel sides with top and bottom fold; no rivets or > with paper rivet strips; cast white metal ends; 6600 series, (Phase II) > > 1950-1959; Tinplated steel sides with top and bottom fold; with embossed > rivets; cast white metal ends, wood roof and floor; 7600 series, (Phase > III) > > 1960-?: Tinplated steel sides without bottom fold; with embossed rivets; > cast white metal ends, new high profile wood roof, floor; 7800 series, > (Phase IV) > > 1970's(?)-end: Tinplated steel sides without bottom fold; embossed > rivets; cast white metal ends, plastic roof, wood floor; 7800 series, > (Phase V) > > Please recognize that this information is not complete or final and > subject to revision as more information becomes available (or I am > corrected, lol!) . Walthers name (C) copyright Walthers. The > presentation of factual information, personal descriptions and > conclusions are (C) 2011 W. Jay Wanczyk. > > Whew! > > W. Jay W. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17214	From: Richard White	Date: 8/18/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology

Jay- Terrific! I've recently begun constructing what you label Phase IV and V cars. Your detailed chronology makes the history of these kits a lot chearer. Thanks- Richard White    To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: the_plainsman@... Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 19:34:40 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology   Correction!  In paragraph 14 exchange  the last sentence, "I have nominally labeled these first embossed tinplate sided cars (without embossed rivets) "Phase III cars."  with "I have nominally labeled these second generation tinplate sided cars WITH embossed rivets, "Phase III Cars". Sorry, no matter how many time one proofreads, there is always an error that rears its ugly head after "send' is clicked. The summary at the end is OK   Jay        --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Jay" <the_plainsman@...> wrote: > > > Walthers Heavyweight Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology > > A few days ago I offered an off-the-cuff 45+ year chronology of the > Walthers Passenger car line without having my data at hand, so I went to > the notes and history I have drafted along with my mostly complete > library of Walthers catalogs from 1938-1950 and some from 1960 and later > and offer this brief chronology. (A summary appears at the end.) > > Wm. "Bill" Walthers always had a knack for spotting good smaller > manufacturers, buying them out and making improvements to those products > as part of his line. He began by purchasing Frank Taylor's > "Taylor-Made" HO line consisting of the Milwaukee Baltic locomotive and > a number of passenger and freight cars and Frank Taylor became an > employee for a time before becoming the editor of Model Railroader > magazine. > > Walthers 1938 HO Catalog, the earliest I have, describes the new > Walthers passenger car line as follows: > > "TAYLOR-MADE passenger cars are accurate to scale and the most realistic > HO models on the market. Car sides and sash are now made of Armite which > is tough and durable. Window and door openings are punched out clean, > belt rail and doors are depressed. Roof, floor and ends are made of > wood, milled to size. Diaphragms are made of folded paper with metal > rubbing plate. Details include: roof and underbelly details, diecast > steps, couplers, triple valve, generator and air brake cylinder. All > trucks come assembled. Paint, transfersand drawings included." > > Interesting to note the phrasing that "Car sides and sash are now made > of Armite;" does this mean that they were originally made of perhaps > plain card sides like the freight cars during Taylor's production or > possibly even the first year of Walthers production? > > In 1938 Walthers cataloged passenger cars in the 5600 series, with 13 > different types and 8 additional paint/decal variations, for a total of > 21 different kits. The CNW gas electric was also listed in the 5600 > series and it may be logically assumed for the present that it also had > Armite sides as the listing states, "Plan of construction and design of > parts is the same as for our passenger cars." For reason that will be > clear later, I have nominally labeled these "Armite" sided passenger > cars with wood ends, "Phase 1 cars." > > In his 1939 HO catalog (#3), Walthers dropped the references to the > "Taylor-Made" line and opened the passenger car page with this modified > quote, " Without a .doubt, the Walthers' line of HO passenger car > models are the most realistic miniature cars ever offered." The > description of materials is the same as the precious year, however, and > this also includes the gas electric. > > The 1940 Walthers HO Catalog announced the first major change in > passenger car construction with the introduction of embossed tinplate > sides and cast metal ends. > > Walthers states, "For some time we have been working on a redesigned HO > passenger car to get away from the use of armite sides and give the HO > cars some of the outstanding features of our O gauge line." He continued > below, "The features of these new cars include: highly detailed die cast > ends with lugs for attaching the roof and the floor, pressed metal sides > with panel doors and windows and embossed letterboard and belt rail. The > sides are channeled so they may be attached to the underside of the > floor and roof..." > > Eleven different types of cars were listed, now numbered in the 6600 > series. I have nominally labeled these first embossed tinplate sided > cars (without embossed rivets) "Phase II cars." > > In 1940, the CNW gas electric was still listed in the 5600 series but > the description was unchanged from previous years, "Plan of construction > and design of parts is the same as for our passenger cars." For now, it > will be difficult to conclusively say when the change from Armite to > tinplate side occurred, (Phase I to Phase II) but it might have been > concurrent with the regular passenger car change. > > The construction of 6600 series of Walthers passenger cars essentially > continued virtually unchanged from the 1940 catalog through the 1949 > catalog, though in that year there were now 21 different types. However, > in 1942 first mention was made that "Rivet effect is obtained by > applying paper overlay with scale embossed paper rivets." I suppose > that Walthers was feeling the heat from his competItors like Varney, > whose heavyweights featured finely embossed rivets on their sides. . > > Though it was sold with Phase II construction, namely cars now having > embossed tinplate sides, but without rivets similar to the 6600 > passenger cars, the CNW Gas Electric was still inexplicably numbered in > the 5600 series! > > 1950 saw the next major change in Walthers passenger car construction - > rivets! In the introduction to the Passenger car section, Walthers > states, " The new 7600 series of HO passenger cars (and the 7500 series > traction kits) are marvels for detail..." The caption next to an > enlarged photo of a portion of a car side notes the embossed rivets. The > top and bottom of the side was still "folded" to permit easy mounting to > floor and roof. Twenty-eight different car types and roof configurations > were cataloged. I have nominally labeled these first embossed tinplate > sided cars (without embossed rivets) "Phase III cars." > > In 1950, the CNW gas electric numbering was changed to the 6450 series > with a new matching trailer listed in the 7600 series. This is likely > when the riveted sided appeared, matching the changes in the regular > passenger line. > > The Walthers line continued through the 1950's without much change > to the passenger car line construction, with the notable exception of > the special "Pug" Passenger cars and the Shuttle Jack. However, new > window configurations were introduced in the regular passenger car line > based upon various prototypes. > > The 1960 Walthers HO catalog heralded the next major change in standard > passenger car construction which affected both the car sides and roof > profile and a introduced a new number series, the 7800's. First, the > sides had a "New straight design (not folded under at bottom) makes it > easy to detail the underbelly." "Goo" was promoted for assembly. > > The roof cross section was substantially changed as well, considerably > higher , quote, "to match the old J-C cars and present day models..." > The new roof part number was M381 while the old, lower profile, M-133 > was still available separately for those who wanted to match their older > Walthers cars. I have read somewhere that the original Walthers, AKA > Taylor-Made passenger cars were scaled 1/8" to the foot and not 3.5 mm. > Would that account for the fact that the Walthers roofs were always a > bit low in comparison to other scale dimentioned HO passenger cars? > > I have nominally labeled these "Phase IV cars." > > The early 1960's also saw many additional types of passenger cars, > such as the Favorite Prototype series, but construction technique and > material reflected that of the standard (not Pug) line, though in some > cases, special car ends (horse car) were made.. > > The last notable change to the standard line of Walthers passenger cars > occurred in the 1970's(?) When molded plastic roof sections were > made available. I would label them Phase V cars. > > While not a complete Walther's passenger car history, this > information, along with Don's detailed description of Walthers kit box > designs, will allow one to make a good estimate of when a particular kit > or model was manufactured over their 45+ year run. > > Summary - Walthers Passenger Car Construction (by catalog date) > > 1937(?)-1939; Armite (card or fibre) sides, wood roof floor and ends; > 5600 series, (Phase I) > > 1940-1949; Tinplated steel sides with top and bottom fold; no rivets or > with paper rivet strips; cast white metal ends; 6600 series, (Phase II) > > 1950-1959; Tinplated steel sides with top and bottom fold; with embossed > rivets; cast white metal ends, wood roof and floor; 7600 series, (Phase > III) > > 1960-?: Tinplated steel sides without bottom fold; with embossed rivets; > cast white metal ends, new high profile wood roof, floor; 7800 series, > (Phase IV) > > 1970's(?)-end: Tinplated steel sides without bottom fold; embossed > rivets; cast white metal ends, plastic roof, wood floor; 7800 series, > (Phase V) > > Please recognize that this information is not complete or final and > subject to revision as more information becomes available (or I am > corrected, lol!) . Walthers name (C) copyright Walthers. The > presentation of factual information, personal descriptions and > conclusions are (C) 2011 W. Jay Wanczyk. > > Whew! > > W. Jay W. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17215	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 8/18/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology

One thing that we haven't pinned down is when the name of the metal cars changed from "Crestline" to "Walthers". I was not aware of the card side Taylor-made cars, I had always considered the original metal Crestline cars as "phase I", but now I see I need to up my terminology a bit. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jay" <the_plainsman@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2011 2:19 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology Walthers Heavyweight Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology A few days ago I offered an off-the-cuff 45+ year chronology of the Walthers Passenger car line without having my data at hand, so I went to the notes and history I have drafted along with my mostly complete library of Walthers catalogs from 1938-1950 and some from 1960 and later and offer this brief chronology. (A summary appears at the end.) Wm. "Bill" Walthers always had a knack for spotting good smaller manufacturers, buying them out and making improvements to those products as part of his line. He began by purchasing Frank Taylor's "Taylor-Made" HO line consisting of the Milwaukee Baltic locomotive and a number of passenger and freight cars and Frank Taylor became an employee for a time before becoming the editor of Model Railroader magazine. Walthers 1938 HO Catalog, the earliest I have, describes the new Walthers passenger car line as follows: "TAYLOR-MADE passenger cars are accurate to scale and the most realistic HO models on the market. Car sides and sash are now made of Armite which is tough and durable. Window and door openings are punched out clean, belt rail and doors are depressed. Roof, floor and ends are made of wood, milled to size. Diaphragms are made of folded paper with metal rubbing plate. Details include: roof and underbelly details, diecast steps, couplers, triple valve, generator and air brake cylinder. All trucks come assembled. Paint, transfersand drawings included." Interesting to note the phrasing that "Car sides and sash are now made of Armite;" does this mean that they were originally made of perhaps plain card sides like the freight cars during Taylor's production or possibly even the first year of Walthers production? In 1938 Walthers cataloged passenger cars in the 5600 series, with 13 different types and 8 additional paint/decal variations, for a total of 21 different kits. The CNW gas electric was also listed in the 5600 series and it may be logically assumed for the present that it also had Armite sides as the listing states, "Plan of construction and design of parts is the same as for our passenger cars." For reason that will be clear later, I have nominally labeled these "Armite" sided passenger cars with wood ends, "Phase 1 cars." In his 1939 HO catalog (#3), Walthers dropped the references to the "Taylor-Made" line and opened the passenger car page with this modified quote, " Without a .doubt, the Walthers' line of HO passenger car models are the most realistic miniature cars ever offered." The description of materials is the same as the precious year, however, and this also includes the gas electric. The 1940 Walthers HO Catalog announced the first major change in passenger car construction with the introduction of embossed tinplate sides and cast metal ends. Walthers states, "For some time we have been working on a redesigned HO passenger car to get away from the use of armite sides and give the HO cars some of the outstanding features of our O gauge line." He continued below, "The features of these new cars include: highly detailed die cast ends with lugs for attaching the roof and the floor, pressed metal sides with panel doors and windows and embossed letterboard and belt rail. The sides are channeled so they may be attached to the underside of the floor and roof..." Eleven different types of cars were listed, now numbered in the 6600 series. I have nominally labeled these first embossed tinplate sided cars (without embossed rivets) "Phase II cars." In 1940, the CNW gas electric was still listed in the 5600 series but the description was unchanged from previous years, "Plan of construction and design of parts is the same as for our passenger cars." For now, it will be difficult to conclusively say when the change from Armite to tinplate side occurred, (Phase I to Phase II) but it might have been concurrent with the regular passenger car change. The construction of 6600 series of Walthers passenger cars essentially continued virtually unchanged from the 1940 catalog through the 1949 catalog, though in that year there were now 21 different types. However, in 1942 first mention was made that "Rivet effect is obtained by applying paper overlay with scale embossed paper rivets." I suppose that Walthers was feeling the heat from his competItors like Varney, whose heavyweights featured finely embossed rivets on their sides. . Though it was sold with Phase II construction, namely cars now having embossed tinplate sides, but without rivets similar to the 6600 passenger cars, the CNW Gas Electric was still inexplicably numbered in the 5600 series! 1950 saw the next major change in Walthers passenger car construction - rivets! In the introduction to the Passenger car section, Walthers states, " The new 7600 series of HO passenger cars (and the 7500 series traction kits) are marvels for detail..." The caption next to an enlarged photo of a portion of a car side notes the embossed rivets. The top and bottom of the side was still "folded" to permit easy mounting to floor and roof. Twenty-eight different car types and roof configurations were cataloged. I have nominally labeled these first embossed tinplate sided cars (without embossed rivets) "Phase III cars." In 1950, the CNW gas electric numbering was changed to the 6450 series with a new matching trailer listed in the 7600 series. This is likely when the riveted sided appeared, matching the changes in the regular passenger line. The Walthers line continued through the 1950's without much change to the passenger car line construction, with the notable exception of the special "Pug" Passenger cars and the Shuttle Jack. However, new window configurations were introduced in the regular passenger car line based upon various prototypes. The 1960 Walthers HO catalog heralded the next major change in standard passenger car construction which affected both the car sides and roof profile and a introduced a new number series, the 7800's. First, the sides had a "New straight design (not folded under at bottom) makes it easy to detail the underbelly." "Goo" was promoted for assembly. The roof cross section was substantially changed as well, considerably higher , quote, "to match the old J-C cars and present day models..." The new roof part number was M381 while the old, lower profile, M-133 was still available separately for those who wanted to match their older Walthers cars. I have read somewhere that the original Walthers, AKA Taylor-Made passenger cars were scaled 1/8" to the foot and not 3.5 mm. Would that account for the fact that the Walthers roofs were always a bit low in comparison to other scale dimentioned HO passenger cars? I have nominally labeled these "Phase IV cars." The early 1960's also saw many additional types of passenger cars, such as the Favorite Prototype series, but construction technique and material reflected that of the standard (not Pug) line, though in some cases, special car ends (horse car) were made.. The last notable change to the standard line of Walthers passenger cars occurred in the 1970's(?) When molded plastic roof sections were made available. I would label them Phase V cars. While not a complete Walther's passenger car history, this information, along with Don's detailed description of Walthers kit box designs, will allow one to make a good estimate of when a particular kit or model was manufactured over their 45+ year run. Summary - Walthers Passenger Car Construction (by catalog date) 1937(?)-1939; Armite (card or fibre) sides, wood roof floor and ends; 5600 series, (Phase I) 1940-1949; Tinplated steel sides with top and bottom fold; no rivets or with paper rivet strips; cast white metal ends; 6600 series, (Phase II) 1950-1959; Tinplated steel sides with top and bottom fold; with embossed rivets; cast white metal ends, wood roof and floor; 7600 series, (Phase III) 1960-?: Tinplated steel sides without bottom fold; with embossed rivets; cast white metal ends, new high profile wood roof, floor; 7800 series, (Phase IV) 1970's(?)-end: Tinplated steel sides without bottom fold; embossed rivets; cast white metal ends, plastic roof, wood floor; 7800 series, (Phase V) Please recognize that this information is not complete or final and subject to revision as more information becomes available (or I am corrected, lol!) . Walthers name (C) copyright Walthers. The presentation of factual information, personal descriptions and conclusions are (C) 2011 W. Jay Wanczyk. Whew! W. Jay W.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17216	From: rcjge	Date: 8/18/2011
Subject: Re: Vintage psgr cars

OK Guys, Added some pics to the 4 sale Gareth folder... Thx, Gareth

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17217	From: Glenn	Date: 8/18/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology

Back in the 1970’s Walthers had a “Passenger Car Planbook” that showed all the line, plus suggested kitbashes to build specific cars.  I must have it here someplace.   gj   From: Richard White Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2011 2:32 PM To: Jim Heckard Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology   Jay- Terrific! I've recently begun constructing what you label Phase IV and V cars. Your detailed chronology makes the history of these kits a lot chearer. Thanks- Richard White   To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: the_plainsman@... Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 19:34:40 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology   Correction!  In paragraph 14 exchange  the last sentence, "I have nominally labeled these first embossed tinplate sided cars (without embossed rivets) "Phase III cars."  with "I have nominally labeled these second generation tinplate sided cars WITH embossed rivets, "Phase III Cars". Sorry, no matter how many time one proofreads, there is always an error that rears its ugly head after "send' is clicked. The summary at the end is OK   Jay       --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Jay" <the_plainsman@...> wrote: > > > Walthers Heavyweight Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology > > A few days ago I offered an off-the-cuff 45+ year chronology of the > Walthers Passenger car line without having my data at hand, so I went to > the notes and history I have drafted along with my mostly complete > library of Walthers catalogs from 1938-1950 and some from 1960 and later > and offer this brief chronology. (A summary appears at the end.) > > Wm. "Bill" Walthers always had a knack for spotting good smaller > manufacturers, buying them out and making improvements to those products > as part of his line. He began by purchasing Frank Taylor's > "Taylor-Made" HO line consisting of the Milwaukee Baltic locomotive and > a number of passenger and freight cars and Frank Taylor became an > employee for a time before becoming the editor of Model Railroader > magazine. > > Walthers 1938 HO Catalog, the earliest I have, describes the new > Walthers passenger car line as follows: > > "TAYLOR-MADE passenger cars are accurate to scale and the most realistic > HO models on the market. Car sides and sash are now made of Armite which > is tough and durable. Window and door openings are punched out clean, > belt rail and doors are depressed. Roof, floor and ends are made of > wood, milled to size. Diaphragms are made of folded paper with metal > rubbing plate. Details include: roof and underbelly details, diecast > steps, couplers, triple valve, generator and air brake cylinder. All > trucks come assembled. Paint, transfersand drawings included." > > Interesting to note the phrasing that "Car sides and sash are now made > of Armite;" does this mean that they were originally made of perhaps > plain card sides like the freight cars during Taylor's production or > possibly even the first year of Walthers production? > > In 1938 Walthers cataloged passenger cars in the 5600 series, with 13 > different types and 8 additional paint/decal variations, for a total of > 21 different kits. The CNW gas electric was also listed in the 5600 > series and it may be logically assumed for the present that it also had > Armite sides as the listing states, "Plan of construction and design of > parts is the same as for our passenger cars." For reason that will be > clear later, I have nominally labeled these "Armite" sided passenger > cars with wood ends, "Phase 1 cars." > > In his 1939 HO catalog (#3), Walthers dropped the references to the > "Taylor-Made" line and opened the passenger car page with this modified > quote, " Without a .doubt, the Walthers' line of HO passenger car > models are the most realistic miniature cars ever offered." The > description of materials is the same as the precious year, however, and > this also includes the gas electric. > > The 1940 Walthers HO Catalog announced the first major change in > passenger car construction with the introduction of embossed tinplate > sides and cast metal ends. > > Walthers states, "For some time we have been working on a redesigned HO > passenger car to get away from the use of armite sides and give the HO > cars some of the outstanding features of our O gauge line." He continued > below, "The features of these new cars include: highly detailed die cast > ends with lugs for attaching the roof and the floor, pressed metal sides > with panel doors and windows and embossed letterboard and belt rail. The > sides are channeled so they may be attached to the underside of the > floor and roof..." > > Eleven different types of cars were listed, now numbered in the 6600 > series. I have nominally labeled these first embossed tinplate sided > cars (without embossed rivets) "Phase II cars." > > In 1940, the CNW gas electric was still listed in the 5600 series but > the description was unchanged from previous years, "Plan of construction > and design of parts is the same as for our passenger cars." For now, it > will be difficult to conclusively say when the change from Armite to > tinplate side occurred, (Phase I to Phase II) but it might have been > concurrent with the regular passenger car change. > > The construction of 6600 series of Walthers passenger cars essentially > continued virtually unchanged from the 1940 catalog through the 1949 > catalog, though in that year there were now 21 different types. However, > in 1942 first mention was made that "Rivet effect is obtained by > applying paper overlay with scale embossed paper rivets." I suppose > that Walthers was feeling the heat from his competItors like Varney, > whose heavyweights featured finely embossed rivets on their sides. . > > Though it was sold with Phase II construction, namely cars now having > embossed tinplate sides, but without rivets similar to the 6600 > passenger cars, the CNW Gas Electric was still inexplicably numbered in > the 5600 series! > > 1950 saw the next major change in Walthers passenger car construction - > rivets! In the introduction to the Passenger car section, Walthers > states, " The new 7600 series of HO passenger cars (and the 7500 series > traction kits) are marvels for detail..." The caption next to an > enlarged photo of a portion of a car side notes the embossed rivets. The > top and bottom of the side was still "folded" to permit easy mounting to > floor and roof. Twenty-eight different car types and roof configurations > were cataloged. I have nominally labeled these first embossed tinplate > sided cars (without embossed rivets) "Phase III cars." > > In 1950, the CNW gas electric numbering was changed to the 6450 series > with a new matching trailer listed in the 7600 series. This is likely > when the riveted sided appeared, matching the changes in the regular > passenger line. > > The Walthers line continued through the 1950's without much change > to the passenger car line construction, with the notable exception of > the special "Pug" Passenger cars and the Shuttle Jack. However, new > window configurations were introduced in the regular passenger car line > based upon various prototypes. > > The 1960 Walthers HO catalog heralded the next major change in standard > passenger car construction which affected both the car sides and roof > profile and a introduced a new number series, the 7800's. First, the > sides had a "New straight design (not folded under at bottom) makes it > easy to detail the underbelly." "Goo" was promoted for assembly. > > The roof cross section was substantially changed as well, considerably > higher , quote, "to match the old J-C cars and present day models..." > The new roof part number was M381 while the old, lower profile, M-133 > was still available separately for those who wanted to match their older > Walthers cars. I have read somewhere that the original Walthers, AKA > Taylor-Made passenger cars were scaled 1/8" to the foot and not 3.5 mm. > Would that account for the fact that the Walthers roofs were always a > bit low in comparison to other scale dimentioned HO passenger cars? > > I have nominally labeled these "Phase IV cars." > > The early 1960's also saw many additional types of passenger cars, > such as the Favorite Prototype series, but construction technique and > material reflected that of the standard (not Pug) line, though in some > cases, special car ends (horse car) were made.. > > The last notable change to the standard line of Walthers passenger cars > occurred in the 1970's(?) When molded plastic roof sections were > made available. I would label them Phase V cars. > > While not a complete Walther's passenger car history, this > information, along with Don's detailed description of Walthers kit box > designs, will allow one to make a good estimate of when a particular kit > or model was manufactured over their 45+ year run. > > Summary - Walthers Passenger Car Construction (by catalog date) > > 1937(?)-1939; Armite (card or fibre) sides, wood roof floor and ends; > 5600 series, (Phase I) > > 1940-1949; Tinplated steel sides with top and bottom fold; no rivets or > with paper rivet strips; cast white metal ends; 6600 series, (Phase II) > > 1950-1959; Tinplated steel sides with top and bottom fold; with embossed > rivets; cast white metal ends, wood roof and floor; 7600 series, (Phase > III) > > 1960-?: Tinplated steel sides without bottom fold; with embossed rivets; > cast white metal ends, new high profile wood roof, floor; 7800 series, > (Phase IV) > > 1970's(?)-end: Tinplated steel sides without bottom fold; embossed > rivets; cast white metal ends, plastic roof, wood floor; 7800 series, > (Phase V) > > Please recognize that this information is not complete or final and > subject to revision as more information becomes available (or I am > corrected, lol!) . Walthers name (C) copyright Walthers. The > presentation of factual information, personal descriptions and > conclusions are (C) 2011 W. Jay Wanczyk. > > Whew! > > W. Jay W. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17218	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 8/18/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology

I had one at one time, now I'd like to find someone who could lend me a copy for a week or so. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "Glenn" <glenn476@...> To: "Jim Heckard" <vintageho@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2011 6:25 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology Back in the 1970’s Walthers had a “Passenger Car Planbook” that showed all the line, plus suggested kitbashes to build specific cars. I must have it here someplace. gj From: Richard White Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2011 2:32 PM To: Jim Heckard Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology Jay- Terrific! I've recently begun constructing what you label Phase IV and V cars. Your detailed chronology makes the history of these kits a lot chearer. Thanks- Richard White -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: the_plainsman@... Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 19:34:40 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology Correction! In paragraph 14 exchange the last sentence, "I have nominally labeled these first embossed tinplate sided cars (without embossed rivets) "Phase III cars." with "I have nominally labeled these second generation tinplate sided cars WITH embossed rivets, "Phase III Cars". Sorry, no matter how many time one proofreads, there is always an error that rears its ugly head after "send' is clicked. The summary at the end is OK Jay --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Jay" <the_plainsman@...> wrote: > > > Walthers Heavyweight Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology > > A few days ago I offered an off-the-cuff 45+ year chronology of the > Walthers Passenger car line without having my data at hand, so I went to > the notes and history I have drafted along with my mostly complete > library of Walthers catalogs from 1938-1950 and some from 1960 and later > and offer this brief chronology. (A summary appears at the end.) > > Wm. "Bill" Walthers always had a knack for spotting good smaller > manufacturers, buying them out and making improvements to those products > as part of his line. He began by purchasing Frank Taylor's > "Taylor-Made" HO line consisting of the Milwaukee Baltic locomotive and > a number of passenger and freight cars and Frank Taylor became an > employee for a time before becoming the editor of Model Railroader > magazine. > > Walthers 1938 HO Catalog, the earliest I have, describes the new > Walthers passenger car line as follows: > > "TAYLOR-MADE passenger cars are accurate to scale and the most realistic > HO models on the market. Car sides and sash are now made of Armite which > is tough and durable. Window and door openings are punched out clean, > belt rail and doors are depressed. Roof, floor and ends are made of > wood, milled to size. Diaphragms are made of folded paper with metal > rubbing plate. Details include: roof and underbelly details, diecast > steps, couplers, triple valve, generator and air brake cylinder. All > trucks come assembled. Paint, transfersand drawings included." > > Interesting to note the phrasing that "Car sides and sash are now made > of Armite;" does this mean that they were originally made of perhaps > plain card sides like the freight cars during Taylor's production or > possibly even the first year of Walthers production? > > In 1938 Walthers cataloged passenger cars in the 5600 series, with 13 > different types and 8 additional paint/decal variations, for a total of > 21 different kits. The CNW gas electric was also listed in the 5600 > series and it may be logically assumed for the present that it also had > Armite sides as the listing states, "Plan of construction and design of > parts is the same as for our passenger cars." For reason that will be > clear later, I have nominally labeled these "Armite" sided passenger > cars with wood ends, "Phase 1 cars." > > In his 1939 HO catalog (#3), Walthers dropped the references to the > "Taylor-Made" line and opened the passenger car page with this modified > quote, " Without a .doubt, the Walthers' line of HO passenger car > models are the most realistic miniature cars ever offered." The > description of materials is the same as the precious year, however, and > this also includes the gas electric. > > The 1940 Walthers HO Catalog announced the first major change in > passenger car construction with the introduction of embossed tinplate > sides and cast metal ends. > > Walthers states, "For some time we have been working on a redesigned HO > passenger car to get away from the use of armite sides and give the HO > cars some of the outstanding features of our O gauge line." He continued > below, "The features of these new cars include: highly detailed die cast > ends with lugs for attaching the roof and the floor, pressed metal sides > with panel doors and windows and embossed letterboard and belt rail. The > sides are channeled so they may be attached to the underside of the > floor and roof..." > > Eleven different types of cars were listed, now numbered in the 6600 > series. I have nominally labeled these first embossed tinplate sided > cars (without embossed rivets) "Phase II cars." > > In 1940, the CNW gas electric was still listed in the 5600 series but > the description was unchanged from previous years, "Plan of construction > and design of parts is the same as for our passenger cars." For now, it > will be difficult to conclusively say when the change from Armite to > tinplate side occurred, (Phase I to Phase II) but it might have been > concurrent with the regular passenger car change. > > The construction of 6600 series of Walthers passenger cars essentially > continued virtually unchanged from the 1940 catalog through the 1949 > catalog, though in that year there were now 21 different types. However, > in 1942 first mention was made that "Rivet effect is obtained by > applying paper overlay with scale embossed paper rivets." I suppose > that Walthers was feeling the heat from his competItors like Varney, > whose heavyweights featured finely embossed rivets on their sides. . > > Though it was sold with Phase II construction, namely cars now having > embossed tinplate sides, but without rivets similar to the 6600 > passenger cars, the CNW Gas Electric was still inexplicably numbered in > the 5600 series! > > 1950 saw the next major change in Walthers passenger car construction - > rivets! In the introduction to the Passenger car section, Walthers > states, " The new 7600 series of HO passenger cars (and the 7500 series > traction kits) are marvels for detail..." The caption next to an > enlarged photo of a portion of a car side notes the embossed rivets. The > top and bottom of the side was still "folded" to permit easy mounting to > floor and roof. Twenty-eight different car types and roof configurations > were cataloged. I have nominally labeled these first embossed tinplate > sided cars (without embossed rivets) "Phase III cars." > > In 1950, the CNW gas electric numbering was changed to the 6450 series > with a new matching trailer listed in the 7600 series. This is likely > when the riveted sided appeared, matching the changes in the regular > passenger line. > > The Walthers line continued through the 1950's without much change > to the passenger car line construction, with the notable exception of > the special "Pug" Passenger cars and the Shuttle Jack. However, new > window configurations were introduced in the regular passenger car line > based upon various prototypes. > > The 1960 Walthers HO catalog heralded the next major change in standard > passenger car construction which affected both the car sides and roof > profile and a introduced a new number series, the 7800's. First, the > sides had a "New straight design (not folded under at bottom) makes it > easy to detail the underbelly." "Goo" was promoted for assembly. > > The roof cross section was substantially changed as well, considerably > higher , quote, "to match the old J-C cars and present day models..." > The new roof part number was M381 while the old, lower profile, M-133 > was still available separately for those who wanted to match their older > Walthers cars. I have read somewhere that the original Walthers, AKA > Taylor-Made passenger cars were scaled 1/8" to the foot and not 3.5 mm. > Would that account for the fact that the Walthers roofs were always a > bit low in comparison to other scale dimentioned HO passenger cars? > > I have nominally labeled these "Phase IV cars." > > The early 1960's also saw many additional types of passenger cars, > such as the Favorite Prototype series, but construction technique and > material reflected that of the standard (not Pug) line, though in some > cases, special car ends (horse car) were made.. > > The last notable change to the standard line of Walthers passenger cars > occurred in the 1970's(?) When molded plastic roof sections were > made available. I would label them Phase V cars. > > While not a complete Walther's passenger car history, this > information, along with Don's detailed description of Walthers kit box > designs, will allow one to make a good estimate of when a particular kit > or model was manufactured over their 45+ year run. > > Summary - Walthers Passenger Car Construction (by catalog date) > > 1937(?)-1939; Armite (card or fibre) sides, wood roof floor and ends; > 5600 series, (Phase I) > > 1940-1949; Tinplated steel sides with top and bottom fold; no rivets or > with paper rivet strips; cast white metal ends; 6600 series, (Phase II) > > 1950-1959; Tinplated steel sides with top and bottom fold; with embossed > rivets; cast white metal ends, wood roof and floor; 7600 series, (Phase > III) > > 1960-?: Tinplated steel sides without bottom fold; with embossed rivets; > cast white metal ends, new high profile wood roof, floor; 7800 series, > (Phase IV) > > 1970's(?)-end: Tinplated steel sides without bottom fold; embossed > rivets; cast white metal ends, plastic roof, wood floor; 7800 series, > (Phase V) > > Please recognize that this information is not complete or final and > subject to revision as more information becomes available (or I am > corrected, lol!) . Walthers name (C) copyright Walthers. The > presentation of factual information, personal descriptions and > conclusions are (C) 2011 W. Jay Wanczyk. > > Whew! > > W. Jay W. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17219	From: Jay Wanczyk	Date: 8/18/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology

Attachments : Crestline HO Motor Unit.jpg To Richard, Don and Glenn and All! Jim H. see the last sentence!)   Richard, thanks for the compliment for my efforts to date.  We still have many blanks to fill, but I believe this to be a good beginning and framework to build upon.    Next, besides finding a copy or photocpy of the 1937 Walthers HO catalog (and possibly a pre-Walthers Frank Taylor catalog, will be to review the Walthers Model railroader ads, as they often provide additional information.  I am virtually complete the years from 1937 on, but am missing 1938, 1940 and 1941, so may start looking again to find them reasoably or wait until the DVD is out.   Another step is to review Walthers newsletters, first called Crestline News, later called The Blazer.  Only have two from 1938 and one or two of the latter circa 1950, so that will be catch as catch can.   The big step, but doable with catalogs and ads will be listing the catalog numbers and type cars that were offered each year, as there were constant revisions and special issues as well, even into the last few years. One big help in crosschecking will be the list posted in our group files listing the Walthers kits.   Don, One way we might be able to trace the period of use of the Crestline "brand" besides ads (the catalogs I have 1938-1950, excepting 1943, 1944 do not mention Crestline) is through examinination and documentation of existing kits we have, dating them by catalog number and those neat packing slips.   A few years ago, it was my uneducated assumption, at least early on, that Crestline was the name Walthers used on some of his O Scale kits, but proved my assumption wrong, as some of my yellow box Walthers passenger (and freight!) car kits have come in original Walthers Crestline boxes. Attached is a photo of a 6 volt "Crestline HO Motor Unit" which I found hidden on eBay a few years ago.     Glen, One cool thing about Walthers is that they consistanly documnetd their line in several ways, and that book you mentioned likely will help.  Walthers published a similar, no doubt smaller Guide to HO Passenger cars in 1943 as well, which I found in a gass electric kit box along with the supplemental gas electric plans and regular passenger car instructions.  (only 13 different cars are shown in that 1943 guide edition, down from the number shown in the 1942 catalog.)    All:  It's funny how I arrived at doing Walthers Passenger car research as I began by documenting the production of my favorite Bronze Walthers Alco High Hood switcher and the CNW Gas Electric. To understand and date those models year by year, it was necessary to document the production of the Walthers 6 and 12 volt power trucks, gear ratios, etc and also figure out what the story was about "those passenger cars."   The very detailed article on the Alco HH switchers, the bronze model as well as the different cast version, the Gas Electric and Walthers Power trucks will be done hopefully by fall.  The resarch is fun for me, if time consuming and one never knows where one will end up!  What usually happens is that the more I know about a particular model, I end up wanting to add it to the collection!   Jim H, While knee deep in ancient Walthers catalogs, I am also copying down information on the development and changes to the Walthers Baltic locomotive and will try to wrap up what I have found to date and see if i can get it posted here in the next few days.   Think a ball game is on now, have to go and sit down and take a break, LOL!   W. Jay W.      From: Richard White <toytrain13@...> To: Jim Heckard <vintageho@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2011 5:32 PM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology   Jay- Terrific! I've recently begun constructing what you label Phase IV and V cars. Your detailed chronology makes the history of these kits a lot chearer. Thanks- Richard White    To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: the_plainsman@... Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 19:34:40 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology   Correction!  In paragraph 14 exchange  the last sentence, "I have nominally labeled thesefirst embossed tinplate sided cars (without embossed rivets) "Phase III cars."  with "I have nominally labeled these second generation tinplate sided cars WITH embossed rivets, "Phase III Cars". Sorry, no matter how many time one proofreads, there is always an error that rears its ugly head after "send' is clicked. The summary at the end is OK   Jay        --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Jay" <the_plainsman@...> wrote: > > > Walthers Heavyweight Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology > > A few days ago I offered an off-the-cuff 45+ year chronology of the > Walthers Passenger car line without having my data at hand, so I went to > the notes and history I have drafted along with my mostly complete > library of Walthers catalogs from 1938-1950 and some from 1960 and later > and offer this brief chronology. (A summary appears at the end.) > > Wm. "Bill" Walthers always had a knack for spotting good smaller > manufacturers, buying them out and making improvements to those products > as part of his line. He began by purchasing Frank Taylor's > "Taylor-Made" HO line consisting of the Milwaukee Baltic locomotive and > a number of passenger and freight cars and Frank Taylor became an > employee for a time before becoming the editor of Model Railroader > magazine. > > Walthers 1938 HO Catalog, the earliest I have, describes the new > Walthers passenger car line as follows: > > "TAYLOR-MADE passenger cars are accurate to scale and the most realistic > HO models on the market. Car sides and sash are now made of Armite which > is tough and durable. Window and door openings are punched out clean, > belt rail and doors are depressed. Roof, floor and ends are made of > wood, milled to size. Diaphragms are made of folded paper with metal > rubbing plate. Details include: roof and underbelly details, diecast > steps, couplers, triple valve, generator and air brake cylinder. All > trucks come assembled. Paint, transfersand drawings included." > > Interesting to note the phrasing that "Car sides and sash are now made > of Armite;" does this mean that they were originally made of perhaps > plain card sides like the freight cars during Taylor's production or > possibly even the first year of Walthers production? > > In 1938 Walthers cataloged passenger cars in the 5600 series, with 13 > different types and 8 additional paint/decal variations, for a total of > 21 different kits. The CNW gas electric was also listed in the 5600 > series and it may be logically assumed for the present that it also had > Armite sides as the listing states, "Plan of construction and design of > parts is the same as for our passenger cars." For reason that will be > clear later, I have nominally labeled these "Armite" sided passenger > cars with wood ends, "Phase 1 cars." > > In his 1939 HO catalog (#3), Walthers dropped the references to the > "Taylor-Made" line and opened the passenger car page with this modified > quote, " Without a .doubt, the Walthers' line of HO passenger car > models are the most realistic miniature cars ever offered." The > description of materials is the same as the precious year, however, and > this also includes the gas electric. > > The 1940 Walthers HO Catalog announced the first major change in > passenger car construction with the introduction of embossed tinplate > sides and cast metal ends. > > Walthers states, "For some time we have been working on a redesigned HO > passenger car to get away from the use of armite sides and give the HO > cars some of the outstanding features of our O gauge line." He continued > below, "The features of these new cars include: highly detailed die cast > ends with lugs for attaching the roof and the floor, pressed metal sides > with panel doors and windows and embossed letterboard and belt rail. The > sides are channeled so they may be attached to the underside of the > floor and roof..." > > Eleven different types of cars were listed, now numbered in the 6600 > series. I have nominally labeled these first embossed tinplate sided > cars (without embossed rivets) "Phase II cars." > > In 1940, the CNW gas electric was still listed in the 5600 series but > the description was unchanged from previous years, "Plan of construction > and design of parts is the same as for our passenger cars." For now, it > will be difficult to conclusively say when the change from Armite to > tinplate side occurred, (Phase I to Phase II) but it might have been > concurrent with the regular passenger car change. > > The construction of 6600 series of Walthers passenger cars essentially > continued virtually unchanged from the 1940 catalog through the 1949 > catalog, though in that year there were now 21 different types. However, > in 1942 first mention was made that "Rivet effect is obtained by > applying paper overlay with scale embossed paper rivets." I suppose > that Walthers was feeling the heat from his competItors like Varney, > whose heavyweights featured finely embossed rivets on their sides. . > > Though it was sold with Phase II construction, namely cars now having > embossed tinplate sides, but without rivets similar to the 6600 > passenger cars, the CNW Gas Electric was still inexplicably numbered in > the 5600 series! > > 1950 saw the next major change in Walthers passenger car construction - > rivets! In the introduction to the Passenger car section, Walthers > states, " The new 7600 series of HO passenger cars (and the 7500 series > traction kits) are marvels for detail..." The caption next to an > enlarged photo of a portion of a car side notes the embossed rivets. The > top and bottom of the side was still "folded" to permit easy mounting to > floor and roof. Twenty-eight different car types and roof configurations > were cataloged. I have nominally labeled these first embossed tinplate > sided cars (without embossed rivets) "Phase III cars." > > In 1950, the CNW gas electric numbering was changed to the 6450 series > with a new matching trailer listed in the 7600 series. This is likely > when the riveted sided appeared, matching the changes in the regular > passenger line. > > The Walthers line continued through the 1950's without much change > to the passenger car line construction, with the notable exception of > the special "Pug" Passenger cars and the Shuttle Jack. However, new > window configurations were introduced in the regular passenger car line > based upon various prototypes. > > The 1960 Walthers HO catalog heralded the next major change in standard > passenger car construction which affected both the car sides and roof > profile and a introduced a new number series, the 7800's. First, the > sides had a "New straight design (not folded under at bottom) makes it > easy to detail the underbelly." "Goo" was promoted for assembly. > > The roof cross section was substantially changed as well, considerably > higher , quote, "to match the old J-C cars and present day models..." > The new roof part number was M381 while the old, lower profile, M-133 > was still available separately for those who wanted to match their older > Walthers cars. I have read somewhere that the original Walthers, AKA > Taylor-Made passenger cars were scaled 1/8" to the foot and not 3.5 mm. > Would that account for the fact that the Walthers roofs were always a > bit low in comparison to other scale dimentioned HO passenger cars? > > I have nominally labeled these "Phase IV cars." > > The early 1960's also saw many additional types of passenger cars, > such as the Favorite Prototype series, but construction technique and > material reflected that of the standard (not Pug) line, though in some > cases, special car ends (horse car) were made.. > > The last notable change to the standard line of Walthers passenger cars > occurred in the 1970's(?) When molded plastic roof sections were > made available. I would label them Phase V cars. > > While not a complete Walther's passenger car history, this > information, along with Don's detailed description of Walthers kit box > designs, will allow one to make a good estimate of when a particular kit > or model was manufactured over their 45+ year run. > > Summary - Walthers Passenger Car Construction (by catalog date) > > 1937(?)-1939; Armite (card or fibre) sides, wood roof floor and ends; > 5600 series, (Phase I) > > 1940-1949; Tinplated steel sides with top and bottom fold; no rivets or > with paper rivet strips; cast white metal ends; 6600 series, (Phase II) > > 1950-1959; Tinplated steel sides with top and bottom fold; with embossed > rivets; cast white metal ends, wood roof and floor; 7600 series, (Phase > III) > > 1960-?: Tinplated steel sides without bottom fold; with embossed rivets; > cast white metal ends, new high profile wood roof, floor; 7800 series, > (Phase IV) > > 1970's(?)-end: Tinplated steel sides without bottom fold; embossed > rivets; cast white metal ends, plastic roof, wood floor; 7800 series, > (Phase V) > > Please recognize that this information is not complete or final and > subject to revision as more information becomes available (or I am > corrected, lol!) . Walthers name (C) copyright Walthers. The > presentation of factual information, personal descriptions and > conclusions are (C) 2011 W. Jay Wanczyk. > > Whew! > > W. Jay W. >

@@attachment@@

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17220	From: rcjge	Date: 8/18/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology

Jay: two things; 1) the Baltic, is it a 4-6-4 "Suburban" Baltic? As in CNJ/CNR? 2) Interested in the HH stuff. I have a real nice Walther's HH body, cast but not the Bronze. I found an old article on how to make an NH HH unit powered by the Athearn SW chassis, which has to be better than the original Walthers power trucks? Trying to decide which HH to depict and thereby decide whether to round the hood edges, front/sides and/or top. Cheers, Gareth --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jay Wanczyk <the_plainsman@...> wrote: > > To Richard, Don and Glenn and All! Jim H. see the last sentence!) >   > Richard, thanks for the compliment for my efforts to date.  We still have many blanks to fill, but I believe this to be a good beginning and framework to build upon.  >   > Next, besides finding a copy or photocpy of the 1937 Walthers HO catalog (and possibly a pre-Walthers Frank Taylor catalog, will be to review the Walthers Model railroader ads, as they often provide additional information.  I am virtually complete the years from 1937 on, but am missing 1938, 1940 and 1941, so may start looking again to find them reasoably or wait until the DVD is out. >   > Another step is to review Walthers newsletters, first called Crestline News, later called The Blazer.  Only have two from 1938 and one or two of the latter circa 1950, so that will be catch as catch can. >   > The big step, but doable with catalogs and ads will be listing the catalog numbers and type cars that were offered each year, as there were constant revisions and special issues as well, even into the last few years. One big help in crosschecking will be the list posted in our group files listing the Walthers kits. >   > Don, One way we might be able to trace the period of use of the Crestline "brand" besides ads (the catalogs I have 1938-1950, excepting 1943, 1944 do not mention Crestline) is through examinination and documentation of existing kits we have, dating them by catalog number and those neat packing slips. >   > A few years ago, it was my uneducated assumption, at least early on, that Crestline was the name Walthers used on some of his O Scale kits, but proved my assumption wrong, as some of my yellow box Walthers passenger (and freight!) car kits have come in original Walthers Crestline boxes. Attached is a photo of a 6 volt "Crestline HO Motor Unit" which I found hidden on eBay a few years ago. >   >   > Glen, One cool thing about Walthers is that they consistanly documnetd their line in several ways, and that book you mentioned likely will help.  Walthers published a similar, no doubt smaller Guide to HO Passenger cars in 1943 as well, which I found in a gass electric kit box along with the supplemental gas electric plans and regular passenger car instructions.  (only 13 different cars are shown in that 1943 guide edition, down from the number shown in the 1942 catalog.) >    > All:  It's funny how I arrived at doing Walthers Passenger car research as I began by documenting the production of my favorite Bronze Walthers Alco High Hood switcher and the CNW Gas Electric. To understand and date those models year by year, it was necessary to document the production of the Walthers 6 and 12 volt power trucks, gear ratios, etc and also figure out what the story was about "those passenger cars." >   > The very detailed article on the Alco HH switchers, the bronze model as well as the different cast version, the Gas Electric and Walthers Power trucks will be done hopefully by fall.  The resarch is fun for me, if time consuming and one never knows where one will end up!  What usually happens is that the more I know about a particular model, I end up wanting to add it to the collection! >   > Jim H, While knee deep in ancient Walthers catalogs, I am also copying down information on the development and changes to the Walthers Baltic locomotive and will try to wrap up what I have found to date and see if i can get it posted here in the next few days. >   > Think a ball game is on now, have to go and sit down and take a break, LOL! >   > W. Jay W. >    > >   > > From: Richard White <toytrain13@...> > To: Jim Heckard <vintageho@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2011 5:32 PM > Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology > > >   > Jay- Terrific! I've recently begun constructing what you label Phase IV and V cars. Your detailed chronology makes the history of these kits a lot chearer. Thanks- Richard White  >   > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > From: the_plainsman@... > Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 19:34:40 +0000 > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology > >   > Correction!  In paragraph 14 exchange  the last sentence, "I have nominally labeled thesefirst embossed tinplate sided cars(without embossed rivets) "Phase III cars."  > with "I have nominally labeled these second generation tinplate sided carsWITH embossed rivets, "Phase III Cars". > Sorry, no matter how many time one proofreads, there is always an error that rears its ugly head after "send' is clicked. The summary at the end is OK   Jay  >   >   >   > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Jay" <the_plainsman@> wrote: > > > > > > Walthers Heavyweight Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology > > > > A few days ago I offered an off-the-cuff 45+ year chronology of the > > Walthers Passenger car line without having my data at hand, so I went to > > the notes and history I have drafted along with my mostly complete > > library of Walthers catalogs from 1938-1950 and some from 1960 and later > > and offer this brief chronology. (A summary appears at the end.) > > > > Wm. "Bill" Walthers always had a knack for spotting good smaller > > manufacturers, buying them out and making improvements to those products > > as part of his line. He began by purchasing Frank Taylor's > > "Taylor-Made" HO line consisting of the Milwaukee Baltic locomotive and > > a number of passenger and freight cars and Frank Taylor became an > > employee for a time before becoming the editor of Model Railroader > > magazine. > > > > Walthers 1938 HO Catalog, the earliest I have, describes the new > > Walthers passenger car line as follows: > > > > "TAYLOR-MADE passenger cars are accurate to scale and the most realistic > > HO models on the market. Car sides and sash are now made of Armite which > > is tough and durable. Window and door openings are punched out clean, > > belt rail and doors are depressed. Roof, floor and ends are made of > > wood, milled to size. Diaphragms are made of folded paper with metal > > rubbing plate. Details include: roof and underbelly details, diecast > > steps, couplers, triple valve, generator and air brake cylinder. All > > trucks come assembled. Paint, transfersand drawings included." > > > > Interesting to note the phrasing that "Car sides and sash are now made > > of Armite;" does this mean that they were originally made of perhaps > > plain card sides like the freight cars during Taylor's production or > > possibly even the first year of Walthers production? > > > > In 1938 Walthers cataloged passenger cars in the 5600 series, with 13 > > different types and 8 additional paint/decal variations, for a total of > > 21 different kits. The CNW gas electric was also listed in the 5600 > > series and it may be logically assumed for the present that it also had > > Armite sides as the listing states, "Plan of construction and design of > > parts is the same as for our passenger cars." For reason that will be > > clear later, I have nominally labeled these "Armite" sided passenger > > cars with wood ends, "Phase 1 cars." > > > > In his 1939 HO catalog (#3), Walthers dropped the references to the > > "Taylor-Made" line and opened the passenger car page with this modified > > quote, " Without a .doubt, the Walthers' line of HO passenger car > > models are the most realistic miniature cars ever offered." The > > description of materials is the same as the precious year, however, and > > this also includes the gas electric. > > > > The 1940 Walthers HO Catalog announced the first major change in > > passenger car construction with the introduction of embossed tinplate > > sides and cast metal ends. > > > > Walthers states, "For some time we have been working on a redesigned HO > > passenger car to get away from the use of armite sides and give the HO > > cars some of the outstanding features of our O gauge line." He continued > > below, "The features of these new cars include: highly detailed die cast > > ends with lugs for attaching the roof and the floor, pressed metal sides > > with panel doors and windows and embossed letterboard and belt rail. The > > sides are channeled so they may be attached to the underside of the > > floor and roof..." > > > > Eleven different types of cars were listed, now numbered in the 6600 > > series. I have nominally labeled these first embossed tinplate sided > > cars (without embossed rivets) "Phase II cars." > > > > In 1940, the CNW gas electric was still listed in the 5600 series but > > the description was unchanged from previous years, "Plan of construction > > and design of parts is the same as for our passenger cars." For now, it > > will be difficult to conclusively say when the change from Armite to > > tinplate side occurred, (Phase I to Phase II) but it might have been > > concurrent with the regular passenger car change. > > > > The construction of 6600 series of Walthers passenger cars essentially > > continued virtually unchanged from the 1940 catalog through the 1949 > > catalog, though in that year there were now 21 different types. However, > > in 1942 first mention was made that "Rivet effect is obtained by > > applying paper overlay with scale embossed paper rivets." I suppose > > that Walthers was feeling the heat from his competItors like Varney, > > whose heavyweights featured finely embossed rivets on their sides. . > > > > Though it was sold with Phase II construction, namely cars now having > > embossed tinplate sides, but without rivets similar to the 6600 > > passenger cars, the CNW Gas Electric was still inexplicably numbered in > > the 5600 series! > > > > 1950 saw the next major change in Walthers passenger car construction - > > rivets! In the introduction to the Passenger car section, Walthers > > states, " The new 7600 series of HO passenger cars (and the 7500 series > > traction kits) are marvels for detail..." The caption next to an > > enlarged photo of a portion of a car side notes the embossed rivets. The > > top and bottom of the side was still "folded" to permit easy mounting to > > floor and roof. Twenty-eight different car types and roof configurations > > were cataloged. I have nominally labeled these first embossed tinplate > > sided cars (without embossed rivets) "Phase III cars." > > > > In 1950, the CNW gas electric numbering was changed to the 6450 series > > with a new matching trailer listed in the 7600 series. This is likely > > when the riveted sided appeared, matching the changes in the regular > > passenger line. > > > > The Walthers line continued through the 1950's without much change > > to the passenger car line construction, with the notable exception of > > the special "Pug" Passenger cars and the Shuttle Jack. However, new > > window configurations were introduced in the regular passenger car line > > based upon various prototypes. > > > > The 1960 Walthers HO catalog heralded the next major change in standard > > passenger car construction which affected both the car sides and roof > > profile and a introduced a new number series, the 7800's. First, the > > sides had a "New straight design (not folded under at bottom) makes it > > easy to detail the underbelly." "Goo" was promoted for assembly. > > > > The roof cross section was substantially changed as well, considerably > > higher , quote, "to match the old J-C cars and present day models..." > > The new roof part number was M381 while the old, lower profile, M-133 > > was still available separately for those who wanted to match their older > > Walthers cars. I have read somewhere that the original Walthers, AKA > > Taylor-Made passenger cars were scaled 1/8" to the foot and not 3.5 mm. > > Would that account for the fact that the Walthers roofs were always a > > bit low in comparison to other scale dimentioned HO passenger cars? > > > > I have nominally labeled these "Phase IV cars." > > > > The early 1960's also saw many additional types of passenger cars, > > such as the Favorite Prototype series, but construction technique and > > material reflected that of the standard (not Pug) line, though in some > > cases, special car ends (horse car) were made.. > > > > The last notable change to the standard line of Walthers passenger cars > > occurred in the 1970's(?) When molded plastic roof sections were > > made available. I would label them Phase V cars. > > > > While not a complete Walther's passenger car history, this > > information, along with Don's detailed description of Walthers kit box > > designs, will allow one to make a good estimate of when a particular kit > > or model was manufactured over their 45+ year run. > > > > Summary - Walthers Passenger Car Construction (by catalog date) > > > > 1937(?)-1939; Armite (card or fibre) sides, wood roof floor and ends; > > 5600 series, (Phase I) > > > > 1940-1949; Tinplated steel sides with top and bottom fold; no rivets or > > with paper rivet strips; cast white metal ends; 6600 series, (Phase II) > > > > 1950-1959; Tinplated steel sides with top and bottom fold; with embossed > > rivets; cast white metal ends, wood roof and floor; 7600 series, (Phase > > III) > > > > 1960-?: Tinplated steel sides without bottom fold; with embossed rivets; > > cast white metal ends, new high profile wood roof, floor; 7800 series, > > (Phase IV) > > > > 1970's(?)-end: Tinplated steel sides without bottom fold; embossed > > rivets; cast white metal ends, plastic roof, wood floor; 7800 series, > > (Phase V) > > > > Please recognize that this information is not complete or final and > > subject to revision as more information becomes available (or I am > > corrected, lol!) . Walthers name (C) copyright Walthers. The > > presentation of factual information, personal descriptions and > > conclusions are (C) 2011 W. Jay Wanczyk. > > > > Whew! > > > > W. Jay W. > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17221	From: Glenn	Date: 8/18/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology [1 Attachment]

One car that might not be in the catalogs—in the early sixties Walthers “Terminal Hobby Shop” listed a set of sides, ends, and doors for a Sperry Detector Car in O and HO.  I built the O Scale version. It got away from me in the early 70’s.  I also built  several O scale cars, and the ATSF Division Superintendent’s car, in HO, modeling one that was here on the YW.   gj   From: Jay Wanczyk Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2011 6:20 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology [1 Attachment]   [Attachment(s) from Jay Wanczyk included below] To Richard, Don and Glenn and All! Jim H. see the last sentence!)   Richard, thanks for the compliment for my efforts to date.  We still have many blanks to fill, but I believe this to be a good beginning and framework to build upon.    Next, besides finding a copy or photocpy of the 1937 Walthers HO catalog (and possibly a pre-Walthers Frank Taylor catalog, will be to review the Walthers Model railroader ads, as they often provide additional information.  I am virtually complete the years from 1937 on, but am missing 1938, 1940 and 1941, so may start looking again to find them reasoably or wait until the DVD is out.   Another step is to review Walthers newsletters, first called Crestline News, later called The Blazer.  Only have two from 1938 and one or two of the latter circa 1950, so that will be catch as catch can.   The big step, but doable with catalogs and ads will be listing the catalog numbers and type cars that were offered each year, as there were constant revisions and special issues as well, even into the last few years. One big help in crosschecking will be the list posted in our group files listing the Walthers kits.   Don, One way we might be able to trace the period of use of the Crestline "brand" besides ads (the catalogs I have 1938-1950, excepting 1943, 1944 do not mention Crestline) is through examinination and documentation of existing kits we have, dating them by catalog number and those neat packing slips.   A few years ago, it was my uneducated assumption, at least early on, that Crestline was the name Walthers used on some of his O Scale kits, but proved my assumption wrong, as some of my yellow box Walthers passenger (and freight!) car kits have come in original Walthers Crestline boxes. Attached is a photo of a 6 volt "Crestline HO Motor Unit" which I found hidden on eBay a few years ago.     Glen, One cool thing about Walthers is that they consistanly documnetd their line in several ways, and that book you mentioned likely will help.  Walthers published a similar, no doubt smaller Guide to HO Passenger cars in 1943 as well, which I found in a gass electric kit box along with the supplemental gas electric plans and regular passenger car instructions.  (only 13 different cars are shown in that 1943 guide edition, down from the number shown in the 1942 catalog.)    All:  It's funny how I arrived at doing Walthers Passenger car research as I began by documenting the production of my favorite Bronze Walthers Alco High Hood switcher and the CNW Gas Electric. To understand and date those models year by year, it was necessary to document the production of the Walthers 6 and 12 volt power trucks, gear ratios, etc and also figure out what the story was about "those passenger cars."   The very detailed article on the Alco HH switchers, the bronze model as well as the different cast version, the Gas Electric and Walthers Power trucks will be done hopefully by fall.  The resarch is fun for me, if time consuming and one never knows where one will end up!  What usually happens is that the more I know about a particular model, I end up wanting to add it to the collection!   Jim H, While knee deep in ancient Walthers catalogs, I am also copying down information on the development and changes to the Walthers Baltic locomotive and will try to wrap up what I have found to date and see if i can get it posted here in the next few days.   Think a ball game is on now, have to go and sit down and take a break, LOL!   W. Jay W.        From: Richard White <toytrain13@...> To: Jim Heckard <vintageho@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2011 5:32 PM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology   Jay- Terrific! I've recently begun constructing what you label Phase IV and V cars. Your detailed chronology makes the history of these kits a lot chearer. Thanks- Richard White   To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: the_plainsman@... Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 19:34:40 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology   Correction!  In paragraph 14 exchange  the last sentence, "I have nominally labeled thesefirst embossed tinplate sided cars (without embossed rivets) "Phase III cars."  with "I have nominally labeled these second generation tinplate sided cars WITH embossed rivets, "Phase III Cars". Sorry, no matter how many time one proofreads, there is always an error that rears its ugly head after "send' is clicked. The summary at the end is OK   Jay       --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Jay" <the_plainsman@...> wrote: > > > Walthers Heavyweight Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology > > A few days ago I offered an off-the-cuff 45+ year chronology of the > Walthers Passenger car line without having my data at hand, so I went to > the notes and history I have drafted along with my mostly complete > library of Walthers catalogs from 1938-1950 and some from 1960 and later > and offer this brief chronology. (A summary appears at the end.) > > Wm. "Bill" Walthers always had a knack for spotting good smaller > manufacturers, buying them out and making improvements to those products > as part of his line. He began by purchasing Frank Taylor's > "Taylor-Made" HO line consisting of the Milwaukee Baltic locomotive and > a number of passenger and freight cars and Frank Taylor became an > employee for a time before becoming the editor of Model Railroader > magazine. > > Walthers 1938 HO Catalog, the earliest I have, describes the new > Walthers passenger car line as follows: > > "TAYLOR-MADE passenger cars are accurate to scale and the most realistic > HO models on the market. Car sides and sash are now made of Armite which > is tough and durable. Window and door openings are punched out clean, > belt rail and doors are depressed. Roof, floor and ends are made of > wood, milled to size. Diaphragms are made of folded paper with metal > rubbing plate. Details include: roof and underbelly details, diecast > steps, couplers, triple valve, generator and air brake cylinder. All > trucks come assembled. Paint, transfersand drawings included." > > Interesting to note the phrasing that "Car sides and sash are now made > of Armite;" does this mean that they were originally made of perhaps > plain card sides like the freight cars during Taylor's production or > possibly even the first year of Walthers production? > > In 1938 Walthers cataloged passenger cars in the 5600 series, with 13 > different types and 8 additional paint/decal variations, for a total of > 21 different kits. The CNW gas electric was also listed in the 5600 > series and it may be logically assumed for the present that it also had > Armite sides as the listing states, "Plan of construction and design of > parts is the same as for our passenger cars." For reason that will be > clear later, I have nominally labeled these "Armite" sided passenger > cars with wood ends, "Phase 1 cars." > > In his 1939 HO catalog (#3), Walthers dropped the references to the > "Taylor-Made" line and opened the passenger car page with this modified > quote, " Without a .doubt, the Walthers' line of HO passenger car > models are the most realistic miniature cars ever offered." The > description of materials is the same as the precious year, however, and > this also includes the gas electric. > > The 1940 Walthers HO Catalog announced the first major change in > passenger car construction with the introduction of embossed tinplate > sides and cast metal ends. > > Walthers states, "For some time we have been working on a redesigned HO > passenger car to get away from the use of armite sides and give the HO > cars some of the outstanding features of our O gauge line." He continued > below, "The features of these new cars include: highly detailed die cast > ends with lugs for attaching the roof and the floor, pressed metal sides > with panel doors and windows and embossed letterboard and belt rail. The > sides are channeled so they may be attached to the underside of the > floor and roof..." > > Eleven different types of cars were listed, now numbered in the 6600 > series. I have nominally labeled these first embossed tinplate sided > cars (without embossed rivets) "Phase II cars." > > In 1940, the CNW gas electric was still listed in the 5600 series but > the description was unchanged from previous years, "Plan of construction > and design of parts is the same as for our passenger cars." For now, it > will be difficult to conclusively say when the change from Armite to > tinplate side occurred, (Phase I to Phase II) but it might have been > concurrent with the regular passenger car change. > > The construction of 6600 series of Walthers passenger cars essentially > continued virtually unchanged from the 1940 catalog through the 1949 > catalog, though in that year there were now 21 different types. However, > in 1942 first mention was made that "Rivet effect is obtained by > applying paper overlay with scale embossed paper rivets." I suppose > that Walthers was feeling the heat from his competItors like Varney, > whose heavyweights featured finely embossed rivets on their sides. . > > Though it was sold with Phase II construction, namely cars now having > embossed tinplate sides, but without rivets similar to the 6600 > passenger cars, the CNW Gas Electric was still inexplicably numbered in > the 5600 series! > > 1950 saw the next major change in Walthers passenger car construction - > rivets! In the introduction to the Passenger car section, Walthers > states, " The new 7600 series of HO passenger cars (and the 7500 series > traction kits) are marvels for detail..." The caption next to an > enlarged photo of a portion of a car side notes the embossed rivets. The > top and bottom of the side was still "folded" to permit easy mounting to > floor and roof. Twenty-eight different car types and roof configurations > were cataloged. I have nominally labeled these first embossed tinplate > sided cars (without embossed rivets) "Phase III cars." > > In 1950, the CNW gas electric numbering was changed to the 6450 series > with a new matching trailer listed in the 7600 series. This is likely > when the riveted sided appeared, matching the changes in the regular > passenger line. > > The Walthers line continued through the 1950's without much change > to the passenger car line construction, with the notable exception of > the special "Pug" Passenger cars and the Shuttle Jack. However, new > window configurations were introduced in the regular passenger car line > based upon various prototypes. > > The 1960 Walthers HO catalog heralded the next major change in standard > passenger car construction which affected both the car sides and roof > profile and a introduced a new number series, the 7800's. First, the > sides had a "New straight design (not folded under at bottom) makes it > easy to detail the underbelly." "Goo" was promoted for assembly. > > The roof cross section was substantially changed as well, considerably > higher , quote, "to match the old J-C cars and present day models..." > The new roof part number was M381 while the old, lower profile, M-133 > was still available separately for those who wanted to match their older > Walthers cars. I have read somewhere that the original Walthers, AKA > Taylor-Made passenger cars were scaled 1/8" to the foot and not 3.5 mm. > Would that account for the fact that the Walthers roofs were always a > bit low in comparison to other scale dimentioned HO passenger cars? > > I have nominally labeled these "Phase IV cars." > > The early 1960's also saw many additional types of passenger cars, > such as the Favorite Prototype series, but construction technique and > material reflected that of the standard (not Pug) line, though in some > cases, special car ends (horse car) were made.. > > The last notable change to the standard line of Walthers passenger cars > occurred in the 1970's(?) When molded plastic roof sections were > made available. I would label them Phase V cars. > > While not a complete Walther's passenger car history, this > information, along with Don's detailed description of Walthers kit box > designs, will allow one to make a good estimate of when a particular kit > or model was manufactured over their 45+ year run. > > Summary - Walthers Passenger Car Construction (by catalog date) > > 1937(?)-1939; Armite (card or fibre) sides, wood roof floor and ends; > 5600 series, (Phase I) > > 1940-1949; Tinplated steel sides with top and bottom fold; no rivets or > with paper rivet strips; cast white metal ends; 6600 series, (Phase II) > > 1950-1959; Tinplated steel sides with top and bottom fold; with embossed > rivets; cast white metal ends, wood roof and floor; 7600 series, (Phase > III) > > 1960-?: Tinplated steel sides without bottom fold; with embossed rivets; > cast white metal ends, new high profile wood roof, floor; 7800 series, > (Phase IV) > > 1970's(?)-end: Tinplated steel sides without bottom fold; embossed > rivets; cast white metal ends, plastic roof, wood floor; 7800 series, > (Phase V) > > Please recognize that this information is not complete or final and > subject to revision as more information becomes available (or I am > corrected, lol!) . Walthers name (C) copyright Walthers. The > presentation of factual information, personal descriptions and > conclusions are (C) 2011 W. Jay Wanczyk. > > Whew! > > W. Jay W. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17222	From: Glenn	Date: 8/18/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology [1 Attachment]

One way that Walthers supported the passenger car phase of the hobby was in the 80’s and early 90’s they had a passenger car award at the NMRA National Convention.  Entries were the first place winners in the regional contests.  I won it twice   From: Jay Wanczyk Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2011 6:20 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology [1 Attachment]   [Attachment(s) from Jay Wanczyk included below] To Richard, Don and Glenn and All! Jim H. see the last sentence!)   Richard, thanks for the compliment for my efforts to date.  We still have many blanks to fill, but I believe this to be a good beginning and framework to build upon.    Next, besides finding a copy or photocpy of the 1937 Walthers HO catalog (and possibly a pre-Walthers Frank Taylor catalog, will be to review the Walthers Model railroader ads, as they often provide additional information.  I am virtually complete the years from 1937 on, but am missing 1938, 1940 and 1941, so may start looking again to find them reasoably or wait until the DVD is out.   Another step is to review Walthers newsletters, first called Crestline News, later called The Blazer.  Only have two from 1938 and one or two of the latter circa 1950, so that will be catch as catch can.   The big step, but doable with catalogs and ads will be listing the catalog numbers and type cars that were offered each year, as there were constant revisions and special issues as well, even into the last few years. One big help in crosschecking will be the list posted in our group files listing the Walthers kits.   Don, One way we might be able to trace the period of use of the Crestline "brand" besides ads (the catalogs I have 1938-1950, excepting 1943, 1944 do not mention Crestline) is through examinination and documentation of existing kits we have, dating them by catalog number and those neat packing slips.   A few years ago, it was my uneducated assumption, at least early on, that Crestline was the name Walthers used on some of his O Scale kits, but proved my assumption wrong, as some of my yellow box Walthers passenger (and freight!) car kits have come in original Walthers Crestline boxes. Attached is a photo of a 6 volt "Crestline HO Motor Unit" which I found hidden on eBay a few years ago.     Glen, One cool thing about Walthers is that they consistanly documnetd their line in several ways, and that book you mentioned likely will help.  Walthers published a similar, no doubt smaller Guide to HO Passenger cars in 1943 as well, which I found in a gass electric kit box along with the supplemental gas electric plans and regular passenger car instructions.  (only 13 different cars are shown in that 1943 guide edition, down from the number shown in the 1942 catalog.)    All:  It's funny how I arrived at doing Walthers Passenger car research as I began by documenting the production of my favorite Bronze Walthers Alco High Hood switcher and the CNW Gas Electric. To understand and date those models year by year, it was necessary to document the production of the Walthers 6 and 12 volt power trucks, gear ratios, etc and also figure out what the story was about "those passenger cars."   The very detailed article on the Alco HH switchers, the bronze model as well as the different cast version, the Gas Electric and Walthers Power trucks will be done hopefully by fall.  The resarch is fun for me, if time consuming and one never knows where one will end up!  What usually happens is that the more I know about a particular model, I end up wanting to add it to the collection!   Jim H, While knee deep in ancient Walthers catalogs, I am also copying down information on the development and changes to the Walthers Baltic locomotive and will try to wrap up what I have found to date and see if i can get it posted here in the next few days.   Think a ball game is on now, have to go and sit down and take a break, LOL!   W. Jay W.        From: Richard White <toytrain13@...> To: Jim Heckard <vintageho@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2011 5:32 PM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology   Jay- Terrific! I've recently begun constructing what you label Phase IV and V cars. Your detailed chronology makes the history of these kits a lot chearer. Thanks- Richard White   To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: the_plainsman@... Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 19:34:40 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology   Correction!  In paragraph 14 exchange  the last sentence, "I have nominally labeled thesefirst embossed tinplate sided cars (without embossed rivets) "Phase III cars."  with "I have nominally labeled these second generation tinplate sided cars WITH embossed rivets, "Phase III Cars". Sorry, no matter how many time one proofreads, there is always an error that rears its ugly head after "send' is clicked. The summary at the end is OK   Jay       --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Jay" <the_plainsman@...> wrote: > > > Walthers Heavyweight Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology > > A few days ago I offered an off-the-cuff 45+ year chronology of the > Walthers Passenger car line without having my data at hand, so I went to > the notes and history I have drafted along with my mostly complete > library of Walthers catalogs from 1938-1950 and some from 1960 and later > and offer this brief chronology. (A summary appears at the end.) > > Wm. "Bill" Walthers always had a knack for spotting good smaller > manufacturers, buying them out and making improvements to those products > as part of his line. He began by purchasing Frank Taylor's > "Taylor-Made" HO line consisting of the Milwaukee Baltic locomotive and > a number of passenger and freight cars and Frank Taylor became an > employee for a time before becoming the editor of Model Railroader > magazine. > > Walthers 1938 HO Catalog, the earliest I have, describes the new > Walthers passenger car line as follows: > > "TAYLOR-MADE passenger cars are accurate to scale and the most realistic > HO models on the market. Car sides and sash are now made of Armite which > is tough and durable. Window and door openings are punched out clean, > belt rail and doors are depressed. Roof, floor and ends are made of > wood, milled to size. Diaphragms are made of folded paper with metal > rubbing plate. Details include: roof and underbelly details, diecast > steps, couplers, triple valve, generator and air brake cylinder. All > trucks come assembled. Paint, transfersand drawings included." > > Interesting to note the phrasing that "Car sides and sash are now made > of Armite;" does this mean that they were originally made of perhaps > plain card sides like the freight cars during Taylor's production or > possibly even the first year of Walthers production? > > In 1938 Walthers cataloged passenger cars in the 5600 series, with 13 > different types and 8 additional paint/decal variations, for a total of > 21 different kits. The CNW gas electric was also listed in the 5600 > series and it may be logically assumed for the present that it also had > Armite sides as the listing states, "Plan of construction and design of > parts is the same as for our passenger cars." For reason that will be > clear later, I have nominally labeled these "Armite" sided passenger > cars with wood ends, "Phase 1 cars." > > In his 1939 HO catalog (#3), Walthers dropped the references to the > "Taylor-Made" line and opened the passenger car page with this modified > quote, " Without a .doubt, the Walthers' line of HO passenger car > models are the most realistic miniature cars ever offered." The > description of materials is the same as the precious year, however, and > this also includes the gas electric. > > The 1940 Walthers HO Catalog announced the first major change in > passenger car construction with the introduction of embossed tinplate > sides and cast metal ends. > > Walthers states, "For some time we have been working on a redesigned HO > passenger car to get away from the use of armite sides and give the HO > cars some of the outstanding features of our O gauge line." He continued > below, "The features of these new cars include: highly detailed die cast > ends with lugs for attaching the roof and the floor, pressed metal sides > with panel doors and windows and embossed letterboard and belt rail. The > sides are channeled so they may be attached to the underside of the > floor and roof..." > > Eleven different types of cars were listed, now numbered in the 6600 > series. I have nominally labeled these first embossed tinplate sided > cars (without embossed rivets) "Phase II cars." > > In 1940, the CNW gas electric was still listed in the 5600 series but > the description was unchanged from previous years, "Plan of construction > and design of parts is the same as for our passenger cars." For now, it > will be difficult to conclusively say when the change from Armite to > tinplate side occurred, (Phase I to Phase II) but it might have been > concurrent with the regular passenger car change. > > The construction of 6600 series of Walthers passenger cars essentially > continued virtually unchanged from the 1940 catalog through the 1949 > catalog, though in that year there were now 21 different types. However, > in 1942 first mention was made that "Rivet effect is obtained by > applying paper overlay with scale embossed paper rivets." I suppose > that Walthers was feeling the heat from his competItors like Varney, > whose heavyweights featured finely embossed rivets on their sides. . > > Though it was sold with Phase II construction, namely cars now having > embossed tinplate sides, but without rivets similar to the 6600 > passenger cars, the CNW Gas Electric was still inexplicably numbered in > the 5600 series! > > 1950 saw the next major change in Walthers passenger car construction - > rivets! In the introduction to the Passenger car section, Walthers > states, " The new 7600 series of HO passenger cars (and the 7500 series > traction kits) are marvels for detail..." The caption next to an > enlarged photo of a portion of a car side notes the embossed rivets. The > top and bottom of the side was still "folded" to permit easy mounting to > floor and roof. Twenty-eight different car types and roof configurations > were cataloged. I have nominally labeled these first embossed tinplate > sided cars (without embossed rivets) "Phase III cars." > > In 1950, the CNW gas electric numbering was changed to the 6450 series > with a new matching trailer listed in the 7600 series. This is likely > when the riveted sided appeared, matching the changes in the regular > passenger line. > > The Walthers line continued through the 1950's without much change > to the passenger car line construction, with the notable exception of > the special "Pug" Passenger cars and the Shuttle Jack. However, new > window configurations were introduced in the regular passenger car line > based upon various prototypes. > > The 1960 Walthers HO catalog heralded the next major change in standard > passenger car construction which affected both the car sides and roof > profile and a introduced a new number series, the 7800's. First, the > sides had a "New straight design (not folded under at bottom) makes it > easy to detail the underbelly." "Goo" was promoted for assembly. > > The roof cross section was substantially changed as well, considerably > higher , quote, "to match the old J-C cars and present day models..." > The new roof part number was M381 while the old, lower profile, M-133 > was still available separately for those who wanted to match their older > Walthers cars. I have read somewhere that the original Walthers, AKA > Taylor-Made passenger cars were scaled 1/8" to the foot and not 3.5 mm. > Would that account for the fact that the Walthers roofs were always a > bit low in comparison to other scale dimentioned HO passenger cars? > > I have nominally labeled these "Phase IV cars." > > The early 1960's also saw many additional types of passenger cars, > such as the Favorite Prototype series, but construction technique and > material reflected that of the standard (not Pug) line, though in some > cases, special car ends (horse car) were made.. > > The last notable change to the standard line of Walthers passenger cars > occurred in the 1970's(?) When molded plastic roof sections were > made available. I would label them Phase V cars. > > While not a complete Walther's passenger car history, this > information, along with Don's detailed description of Walthers kit box > designs, will allow one to make a good estimate of when a particular kit > or model was manufactured over their 45+ year run. > > Summary - Walthers Passenger Car Construction (by catalog date) > > 1937(?)-1939; Armite (card or fibre) sides, wood roof floor and ends; > 5600 series, (Phase I) > > 1940-1949; Tinplated steel sides with top and bottom fold; no rivets or > with paper rivet strips; cast white metal ends; 6600 series, (Phase II) > > 1950-1959; Tinplated steel sides with top and bottom fold; with embossed > rivets; cast white metal ends, wood roof and floor; 7600 series, (Phase > III) > > 1960-?: Tinplated steel sides without bottom fold; with embossed rivets; > cast white metal ends, new high profile wood roof, floor; 7800 series, > (Phase IV) > > 1970's(?)-end: Tinplated steel sides without bottom fold; embossed > rivets; cast white metal ends, plastic roof, wood floor; 7800 series, > (Phase V) > > Please recognize that this information is not complete or final and > subject to revision as more information becomes available (or I am > corrected, lol!) . Walthers name (C) copyright Walthers. The > presentation of factual information, personal descriptions and > conclusions are (C) 2011 W. Jay Wanczyk. > > Whew! > > W. Jay W. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17223	From: John H	Date: 8/18/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology

Hardly. The Milwaukee Road Baltics were what most roads called Hudsons. They were powerful, fast, streamlined locmotives built expressly to pull the Hiawatha's. John Hagen --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "rcjge" <jgpedwards@...> wrote: > > Jay: > > two things; > > 1) the Baltic, is it a 4-6-4 "Suburban" Baltic? As in CNJ/CNR? > > 2) Interested in the HH stuff. I have a real nice Walther's HH body, cast but not the Bronze. I found an old article on how to make an NH HH unit powered by the Athearn SW chassis, which has to be better than the original Walthers power trucks? Trying to decide which HH to depict and thereby decide whether to round the hood edges, front/sides and/or top. > > Cheers, > Gareth > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jay Wanczyk <the_plainsman@> wrote: > > > > To Richard, Don and Glenn and All! Jim H. see the last sentence!) > >   > > Richard, thanks for the compliment for my efforts to date.  We still have many blanks to fill, but I believe this to be a good beginning and framework to build upon.  > >   > > Next, besides finding a copy or photocpy of the 1937 Walthers HO catalog (and possibly a pre-Walthers Frank Taylor catalog, will be to review the Walthers Model railroader ads, as they often provide additional information.  I am virtually complete the years from 1937 on, but am missing 1938, 1940 and 1941, so may start looking again to find them reasoably or wait until the DVD is out. > >   > > Another step is to review Walthers newsletters, first called Crestline News, later called The Blazer.  Only have two from 1938 and one or two of the latter circa 1950, so that will be catch as catch can. > >   > > The big step, but doable with catalogs and ads will be listing the catalog numbers and type cars that were offered each year, as there were constant revisions and special issues as well, even into the last few years. One big help in crosschecking will be the list posted in our group files listing the Walthers kits. > >   > > Don, One way we might be able to trace the period of use of the Crestline "brand" besides ads (the catalogs I have 1938-1950, excepting 1943, 1944 do not mention Crestline) is through examinination and documentation of existing kits we have, dating them by catalog number and those neat packing slips. > >   > > A few years ago, it was my uneducated assumption, at least early on, that Crestline was the name Walthers used on some of his O Scale kits, but proved my assumption wrong, as some of my yellow box Walthers passenger (and freight!) car kits have come in original Walthers Crestline boxes. Attached is a photo of a 6 volt "Crestline HO Motor Unit" which I found hidden on eBay a few years ago. > >   > >   > > Glen, One cool thing about Walthers is that they consistanly documnetd their line in several ways, and that book you mentioned likely will help.  Walthers published a similar, no doubt smaller Guide to HO Passenger cars in 1943 as well, which I found in a gass electric kit box along with the supplemental gas electric plans and regular passenger car instructions.  (only 13 different cars are shown in that 1943 guide edition, down from the number shown in the 1942 catalog.) > >    > > All:  It's funny how I arrived at doing Walthers Passenger car research as I began by documenting the production of my favorite Bronze Walthers Alco High Hood switcher and the CNW Gas Electric. To understand and date those models year by year, it was necessary to document the production of the Walthers 6 and 12 volt power trucks, gear ratios, etc and also figure out what the story was about "those passenger cars." > >   > > The very detailed article on the Alco HH switchers, the bronze model as well as the different cast version, the Gas Electric and Walthers Power trucks will be done hopefully by fall.  The resarch is fun for me, if time consuming and one never knows where one will end up!  What usually happens is that the more I know about a particular model, I end up wanting to add it to the collection! > >   > > Jim H, While knee deep in ancient Walthers catalogs, I am also copying down information on the development and changes to the Walthers Baltic locomotive and will try to wrap up what I have found to date and see if i can get it posted here in the next few days. > >   > > Think a ball game is on now, have to go and sit down and take a break, LOL! > >   > > W. Jay W. > >    > > > >   > > > > From: Richard White <toytrain13@> > > To: Jim Heckard <vintageho@yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2011 5:32 PM > > Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology > > > > > >   > > Jay- Terrific! I've recently begun constructing what you label Phase IV and V cars. Your detailed chronology makes the history of these kits a lot chearer. Thanks- Richard White  > >   > > > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > From: the_plainsman@ > > Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 19:34:40 +0000 > > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology > > > >   > > Correction!  In paragraph 14 exchange  the last sentence, "I have nominally labeled thesefirst embossed tinplate sided cars(without embossed rivets) "Phase III cars."  > > with "I have nominally labeled these second generation tinplate sided carsWITH embossed rivets, "Phase III Cars". > > Sorry, no matter how many time one proofreads, there is always an error that rears its ugly head after "send' is clicked. The summary at the end is OK   Jay  > >   > >   > >   > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Jay" <the_plainsman@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Walthers Heavyweight Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology > > > > > > A few days ago I offered an off-the-cuff 45+ year chronology of the > > > Walthers Passenger car line without having my data at hand, so I went to > > > the notes and history I have drafted along with my mostly complete > > > library of Walthers catalogs from 1938-1950 and some from 1960 and later > > > and offer this brief chronology. (A summary appears at the end.) > > > > > > Wm. "Bill" Walthers always had a knack for spotting good smaller > > > manufacturers, buying them out and making improvements to those products > > > as part of his line. He began by purchasing Frank Taylor's > > > "Taylor-Made" HO line consisting of the Milwaukee Baltic locomotive and > > > a number of passenger and freight cars and Frank Taylor became an > > > employee for a time before becoming the editor of Model Railroader > > > magazine. > > > > > > Walthers 1938 HO Catalog, the earliest I have, describes the new > > > Walthers passenger car line as follows: > > > > > > "TAYLOR-MADE passenger cars are accurate to scale and the most realistic > > > HO models on the market. Car sides and sash are now made of Armite which > > > is tough and durable. Window and door openings are punched out clean, > > > belt rail and doors are depressed. Roof, floor and ends are made of > > > wood, milled to size. Diaphragms are made of folded paper with metal > > > rubbing plate. Details include: roof and underbelly details, diecast > > > steps, couplers, triple valve, generator and air brake cylinder. All > > > trucks come assembled. Paint, transfersand drawings included." > > > > > > Interesting to note the phrasing that "Car sides and sash are now made > > > of Armite;" does this mean that they were originally made of perhaps > > > plain card sides like the freight cars during Taylor's production or > > > possibly even the first year of Walthers production? > > > > > > In 1938 Walthers cataloged passenger cars in the 5600 series, with 13 > > > different types and 8 additional paint/decal variations, for a total of > > > 21 different kits. The CNW gas electric was also listed in the 5600 > > > series and it may be logically assumed for the present that it also had > > > Armite sides as the listing states, "Plan of construction and design of > > > parts is the same as for our passenger cars." For reason that will be > > > clear later, I have nominally labeled these "Armite" sided passenger > > > cars with wood ends, "Phase 1 cars." > > > > > > In his 1939 HO catalog (#3), Walthers dropped the references to the > > > "Taylor-Made" line and opened the passenger car page with this modified > > > quote, " Without a .doubt, the Walthers' line of HO passenger car > > > models are the most realistic miniature cars ever offered." The > > > description of materials is the same as the precious year, however, and > > > this also includes the gas electric. > > > > > > The 1940 Walthers HO Catalog announced the first major change in > > > passenger car construction with the introduction of embossed tinplate > > > sides and cast metal ends. > > > > > > Walthers states, "For some time we have been working on a redesigned HO > > > passenger car to get away from the use of armite sides and give the HO > > > cars some of the outstanding features of our O gauge line." He continued > > > below, "The features of these new cars include: highly detailed die cast > > > ends with lugs for attaching the roof and the floor, pressed metal sides > > > with panel doors and windows and embossed letterboard and belt rail. The > > > sides are channeled so they may be attached to the underside of the > > > floor and roof..." > > > > > > Eleven different types of cars were listed, now numbered in the 6600 > > > series. I have nominally labeled these first embossed tinplate sided > > > cars (without embossed rivets) "Phase II cars." > > > > > > In 1940, the CNW gas electric was still listed in the 5600 series but > > > the description was unchanged from previous years, "Plan of construction > > > and design of parts is the same as for our passenger cars." For now, it > > > will be difficult to conclusively say when the change from Armite to > > > tinplate side occurred, (Phase I to Phase II) but it might have been > > > concurrent with the regular passenger car change. > > > > > > The construction of 6600 series of Walthers passenger cars essentially > > > continued virtually unchanged from the 1940 catalog through the 1949 > > > catalog, though in that year there were now 21 different types. However, > > > in 1942 first mention was made that "Rivet effect is obtained by > > > applying paper overlay with scale embossed paper rivets." I suppose > > > that Walthers was feeling the heat from his competItors like Varney, > > > whose heavyweights featured finely embossed rivets on their sides. . > > > > > > Though it was sold with Phase II construction, namely cars now having > > > embossed tinplate sides, but without rivets similar to the 6600 > > > passenger cars, the CNW Gas Electric was still inexplicably numbered in > > > the 5600 series! > > > > > > 1950 saw the next major change in Walthers passenger car construction - > > > rivets! In the introduction to the Passenger car section, Walthers > > > states, " The new 7600 series of HO passenger cars (and the 7500 series > > > traction kits) are marvels for detail..." The caption next to an > > > enlarged photo of a portion of a car side notes the embossed rivets. The > > > top and bottom of the side was still "folded" to permit easy mounting to > > > floor and roof. Twenty-eight different car types and roof configurations > > > were cataloged. I have nominally labeled these first embossed tinplate > > > sided cars (without embossed rivets) "Phase III cars." > > > > > > In 1950, the CNW gas electric numbering was changed to the 6450 series > > > with a new matching trailer listed in the 7600 series. This is likely > > > when the riveted sided appeared, matching the changes in the regular > > > passenger line. > > > > > > The Walthers line continued through the 1950's without much change > > > to the passenger car line construction, with the notable exception of > > > the special "Pug" Passenger cars and the Shuttle Jack. However, new > > > window configurations were introduced in the regular passenger car line > > > based upon various prototypes. > > > > > > The 1960 Walthers HO catalog heralded the next major change in standard > > > passenger car construction which affected both the car sides and roof > > > profile and a introduced a new number series, the 7800's. First, the > > > sides had a "New straight design (not folded under at bottom) makes it > > > easy to detail the underbelly." "Goo" was promoted for assembly. > > > > > > The roof cross section was substantially changed as well, considerably > > > higher , quote, "to match the old J-C cars and present day models..." > > > The new roof part number was M381 while the old, lower profile, M-133 > > > was still available separately for those who wanted to match their older > > > Walthers cars. I have read somewhere that the original Walthers, AKA > > > Taylor-Made passenger cars were scaled 1/8" to the foot and not 3.5 mm. > > > Would that account for the fact that the Walthers roofs were always a > > > bit low in comparison to other scale dimentioned HO passenger cars? > > > > > > I have nominally labeled these "Phase IV cars." > > > > > > The early 1960's also saw many additional types of passenger cars, > > > such as the Favorite Prototype series, but construction technique and > > > material reflected that of the standard (not Pug) line, though in some > > > cases, special car ends (horse car) were made.. > > > > > > The last notable change to the standard line of Walthers passenger cars > > > occurred in the 1970's(?) When molded plastic roof sections were > > > made available. I would label them Phase V cars. > > > > > > While not a complete Walther's passenger car history, this > > > information, along with Don's detailed description of Walthers kit box > > > designs, will allow one to make a good estimate of when a particular kit > > > or model was manufactured over their 45+ year run. > > > > > > Summary - Walthers Passenger Car Construction (by catalog date) > > > > > > 1937(?)-1939; Armite (card or fibre) sides, wood roof floor and ends; > > > 5600 series, (Phase I) > > > > > > 1940-1949; Tinplated steel sides with top and bottom fold; no rivets or > > > with paper rivet strips; cast white metal ends; 6600 series, (Phase II) > > > > > > 1950-1959; Tinplated steel sides with top and bottom fold; with embossed > > > rivets; cast white metal ends, wood roof and floor; 7600 series, (Phase > > > III) > > > > > > 1960-?: Tinplated steel sides without bottom fold; with embossed rivets; > > > cast white metal ends, new high profile wood roof, floor; 7800 series, > > > (Phase IV) > > > > > > 1970's(?)-end: Tinplated steel sides without bottom fold; embossed > > > rivets; cast white metal ends, plastic roof, wood floor; 7800 series, > > > (Phase V) > > > > > > Please recognize that this information is not complete or final and > > > subject to revision as more information becomes available (or I am > > > corrected, lol!) . Walthers name (C) copyright Walthers. The > > > presentation of factual information, personal descriptions and > > > conclusions are (C) 2011 W. Jay Wanczyk. > > > > > > Whew! > > > > > > W. Jay W. > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17224	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 8/18/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology

Hey John: Yeah that is a wee bit different. I know the 4-6-4 is normally a Hudson, the appellation "Baltic" to me normally means CNJ Suburban.. -Gareth On 18 August 2011 22:24, John H <sprinthag@...> wrote:   Hardly. The Milwaukee Road Baltics were what most roads called Hudsons. They were powerful, fast, streamlined locmotives built expressly to pull the Hiawatha's. John Hagen --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "rcjge" <jgpedwards@...> wrote: > > Jay: > > two things; > > 1) the Baltic, is it a 4-6-4 "Suburban" Baltic? As in CNJ/CNR? > > 2) Interested in the HH stuff. I have a real nice Walther's HH body, cast but not the Bronze. I found an old article on how to make an NH HH unit powered by the Athearn SW chassis, which has to be better than the original Walthers power trucks? Trying to decide which HH to depict and thereby decide whether to round the hood edges, front/sides and/or top. > > Cheers, > Gareth > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jay Wanczyk <the_plainsman@> wrote: > > > > To Richard, Don and Glenn and All! Jim H. see the last sentence!) > >   > > Richard, thanks for the compliment for my efforts to date.  We still have many blanks to fill, but I believe this to be a good beginning and framework to build upon.  > >   > > Next, besides finding a copy or photocpy of the 1937 Walthers HO catalog (and possibly a pre-Walthers Frank Taylor catalog, will be to review the Walthers Model railroader ads, as they often provide additional information.  I am virtually complete the years from 1937 on, but am missing 1938, 1940 and 1941, so may start looking again to find them reasoably or wait until the DVD is out. > >   > > Another step is to review Walthers newsletters, first called Crestline News, later called The Blazer.  Only have two from 1938 and one or two of the latter circa 1950, so that will be catch as catch can. > >   > > The big step, but doable with catalogs and ads will be listing the catalog numbers and type cars that were offered each year, as there were constant revisions and special issues as well, even into the last few years. One big help in crosschecking will be the list posted in our group files listing the Walthers kits. > >   > > Don, One way we might be able to trace the period of use of the Crestline "brand" besides ads (the catalogs I have 1938-1950, excepting 1943, 1944 do not mention Crestline) is through examinination and documentation of existing kits we have, dating them by catalog number and those neat packing slips. > >   > > A few years ago, it was my uneducated assumption, at least early on, that Crestline was the name Walthers used on some of his O Scale kits, but proved my assumption wrong, as some of my yellow box Walthers passenger (and freight!) car kits have come in original Walthers Crestline boxes. Attached is a photo of a 6 volt "Crestline HO Motor Unit" which I found hidden on eBay a few years ago. > >   > >   > > Glen, One cool thing about Walthers is that they consistanly documnetd their line in several ways, and that book you mentioned likely will help.  Walthers published a similar, no doubt smaller Guide to HO Passenger cars in 1943 as well, which I found in a gass electric kit box along with the supplemental gas electric plans and regular passenger car instructions.  (only 13 different cars are shown in that 1943 guide edition, down from the number shown in the 1942 catalog.) > >    > > All:  It's funny how I arrived at doing Walthers Passenger car research as I began by documenting the production of my favorite Bronze Walthers Alco High Hood switcher and the CNW Gas Electric. To understand and date those models year by year, it was necessary to document the production of the Walthers 6 and 12 volt power trucks, gear ratios, etc and also figure out what the story was about "those passenger cars." > >   > > The very detailed article on the Alco HH switchers, the bronze model as well as the different cast version, the Gas Electric and Walthers Power trucks will be done hopefully by fall.  The resarch is fun for me, if time consuming and one never knows where one will end up!  What usually happens is that the more I know about a particular model, I end up wanting to add it to the collection! > >   > > Jim H, While knee deep in ancient Walthers catalogs, I am also copying down information on the development and changes to the Walthers Baltic locomotive and will try to wrap up what I have found to date and see if i can get it posted here in the next few days. > >   > > Think a ball game is on now, have to go and sit down and take a break, LOL! > >   > > W. Jay W. > >    > > > >   > > > > From: Richard White <toytrain13@> > > To: Jim Heckard <vintageho@yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2011 5:32 PM > > Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology > > > > > >   > > Jay- Terrific! I've recently begun constructing what you label Phase IV and V cars. Your detailed chronology makes the history of these kits a lot chearer. Thanks- Richard White  > >   > > > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > From: the_plainsman@ > > Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 19:34:40 +0000 > > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology > > > >   > > Correction!  In paragraph 14 exchange  the last sentence, "I have nominally labeled thesefirst embossed tinplate sided cars(without embossed rivets) "Phase III cars."  > > with "I have nominally labeled these second generation tinplate sided carsWITH embossed rivets, "Phase III Cars". > > Sorry, no matter how many time one proofreads, there is always an error that rears its ugly head after "send' is clicked. The summary at the end is OK   Jay  > >   > >   > >   > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Jay" <the_plainsman@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Walthers Heavyweight Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology > > > > > > A few days ago I offered an off-the-cuff 45+ year chronology of the > > > Walthers Passenger car line without having my data at hand, so I went to > > > the notes and history I have drafted along with my mostly complete > > > library of Walthers catalogs from 1938-1950 and some from 1960 and later > > > and offer this brief chronology. (A summary appears at the end.) > > > > > > Wm. "Bill" Walthers always had a knack for spotting good smaller > > > manufacturers, buying them out and making improvements to those products > > > as part of his line. He began by purchasing Frank Taylor's > > > "Taylor-Made" HO line consisting of the Milwaukee Baltic locomotive and > > > a number of passenger and freight cars and Frank Taylor became an > > > employee for a time before becoming the editor of Model Railroader > > > magazine. > > > > > > Walthers 1938 HO Catalog, the earliest I have, describes the new > > > Walthers passenger car line as follows: > > > > > > "TAYLOR-MADE passenger cars are accurate to scale and the most realistic > > > HO models on the market. Car sides and sash are now made of Armite which > > > is tough and durable. Window and door openings are punched out clean, > > > belt rail and doors are depressed. Roof, floor and ends are made of > > > wood, milled to size. Diaphragms are made of folded paper with metal > > > rubbing plate. Details include: roof and underbelly details, diecast > > > steps, couplers, triple valve, generator and air brake cylinder. All > > > trucks come assembled. Paint, transfersand drawings included." > > > > > > Interesting to note the phrasing that "Car sides and sash are now made > > > of Armite;" does this mean that they were originally made of perhaps > > > plain card sides like the freight cars during Taylor's production or > > > possibly even the first year of Walthers production? > > > > > > In 1938 Walthers cataloged passenger cars in the 5600 series, with 13 > > > different types and 8 additional paint/decal variations, for a total of > > > 21 different kits. The CNW gas electric was also listed in the 5600 > > > series and it may be logically assumed for the present that it also had > > > Armite sides as the listing states, "Plan of construction and design of > > > parts is the same as for our passenger cars." For reason that will be > > > clear later, I have nominally labeled these "Armite" sided passenger > > > cars with wood ends, "Phase 1 cars." > > > > > > In his 1939 HO catalog (#3), Walthers dropped the references to the > > > "Taylor-Made" line and opened the passenger car page with this modified > > > quote, " Without a .doubt, the Walthers' line of HO passenger car > > > models are the most realistic miniature cars ever offered." The > > > description of materials is the same as the precious year, however, and > > > this also includes the gas electric. > > > > > > The 1940 Walthers HO Catalog announced the first major change in > > > passenger car construction with the introduction of embossed tinplate > > > sides and cast metal ends. > > > > > > Walthers states, "For some time we have been working on a redesigned HO > > > passenger car to get away from the use of armite sides and give the HO > > > cars some of the outstanding features of our O gauge line." He continued > > > below, "The features of these new cars include: highly detailed die cast > > > ends with lugs for attaching the roof and the floor, pressed metal sides > > > with panel doors and windows and embossed letterboard and belt rail. The > > > sides are channeled so they may be attached to the underside of the > > > floor and roof..." > > > > > > Eleven different types of cars were listed, now numbered in the 6600 > > > series. I have nominally labeled these first embossed tinplate sided > > > cars (without embossed rivets) "Phase II cars." > > > > > > In 1940, the CNW gas electric was still listed in the 5600 series but > > > the description was unchanged from previous years, "Plan of construction > > > and design of parts is the same as for our passenger cars." For now, it > > > will be difficult to conclusively say when the change from Armite to > > > tinplate side occurred, (Phase I to Phase II) but it might have been > > > concurrent with the regular passenger car change. > > > > > > The construction of 6600 series of Walthers passenger cars essentially > > > continued virtually unchanged from the 1940 catalog through the 1949 > > > catalog, though in that year there were now 21 different types. However, > > > in 1942 first mention was made that "Rivet effect is obtained by > > > applying paper overlay with scale embossed paper rivets." I suppose > > > that Walthers was feeling the heat from his competItors like Varney, > > > whose heavyweights featured finely embossed rivets on their sides. . > > > > > > Though it was sold with Phase II construction, namely cars now having > > > embossed tinplate sides, but without rivets similar to the 6600 > > > passenger cars, the CNW Gas Electric was still inexplicably numbered in > > > the 5600 series! > > > > > > 1950 saw the next major change in Walthers passenger car construction - > > > rivets! In the introduction to the Passenger car section, Walthers > > > states, " The new 7600 series of HO passenger cars (and the 7500 series > > > traction kits) are marvels for detail..." The caption next to an > > > enlarged photo of a portion of a car side notes the embossed rivets. The > > > top and bottom of the side was still "folded" to permit easy mounting to > > > floor and roof. Twenty-eight different car types and roof configurations > > > were cataloged. I have nominally labeled these first embossed tinplate > > > sided cars (without embossed rivets) "Phase III cars." > > > > > > In 1950, the CNW gas electric numbering was changed to the 6450 series > > > with a new matching trailer listed in the 7600 series. This is likely > > > when the riveted sided appeared, matching the changes in the regular > > > passenger line. > > > > > > The Walthers line continued through the 1950's without much change > > > to the passenger car line construction, with the notable exception of > > > the special "Pug" Passenger cars and the Shuttle Jack. However, new > > > window configurations were introduced in the regular passenger car line > > > based upon various prototypes. > > > > > > The 1960 Walthers HO catalog heralded the next major change in standard > > > passenger car construction which affected both the car sides and roof > > > profile and a introduced a new number series, the 7800's. First, the > > > sides had a "New straight design (not folded under at bottom) makes it > > > easy to detail the underbelly." "Goo" was promoted for assembly. > > > > > > The roof cross section was substantially changed as well, considerably > > > higher , quote, "to match the old J-C cars and present day models..." > > > The new roof part number was M381 while the old, lower profile, M-133 > > > was still available separately for those who wanted to match their older > > > Walthers cars. I have read somewhere that the original Walthers, AKA > > > Taylor-Made passenger cars were scaled 1/8" to the foot and not 3.5 mm. > > > Would that account for the fact that the Walthers roofs were always a > > > bit low in comparison to other scale dimentioned HO passenger cars? > > > > > > I have nominally labeled these "Phase IV cars." > > > > > > The early 1960's also saw many additional types of passenger cars, > > > such as the Favorite Prototype series, but construction technique and > > > material reflected that of the standard (not Pug) line, though in some > > > cases, special car ends (horse car) were made.. > > > > > > The last notable change to the standard line of Walthers passenger cars > > > occurred in the 1970's(?) When molded plastic roof sections were > > > made available. I would label them Phase V cars. > > > > > > While not a complete Walther's passenger car history, this > > > information, along with Don's detailed description of Walthers kit box > > > designs, will allow one to make a good estimate of when a particular kit > > > or model was manufactured over their 45+ year run. > > > > > > Summary - Walthers Passenger Car Construction (by catalog date) > > > > > > 1937(?)-1939; Armite (card or fibre) sides, wood roof floor and ends; > > > 5600 series, (Phase I) > > > > > > 1940-1949; Tinplated steel sides with top and bottom fold; no rivets or > > > with paper rivet strips; cast white metal ends; 6600 series, (Phase II) > > > > > > 1950-1959; Tinplated steel sides with top and bottom fold; with embossed > > > rivets; cast white metal ends, wood roof and floor; 7600 series, (Phase > > > III) > > > > > > 1960-?: Tinplated steel sides without bottom fold; with embossed rivets; > > > cast white metal ends, new high profile wood roof, floor; 7800 series, > > > (Phase IV) > > > > > > 1970's(?)-end: Tinplated steel sides without bottom fold; embossed > > > rivets; cast white metal ends, plastic roof, wood floor; 7800 series, > > > (Phase V) > > > > > > Please recognize that this information is not complete or final and > > > subject to revision as more information becomes available (or I am > > > corrected, lol!) . Walthers name (C) copyright Walthers. The > > > presentation of factual information, personal descriptions and > > > conclusions are (C) 2011 W. Jay Wanczyk. > > > > > > Whew! > > > > > > W. Jay W. > > > > > > -- "Clear Eyes, Full Heart, Can't Lose!"

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17225	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 8/18/2011
Subject: I didn't know about these Paul Moore's.......

A few days ago I grabbed the phone while in bed and surfed my eBay searches. It was about midnight and I stumbled upon a Buy-now Paul Moore. After debating for a couple of minutes, I bought it. Once again there was no image of the car sides, nor any mention of which kit it was. I was able to see a partly finished floor, letting me know it was one of the longer ones. from the cut-outs on the one end olny, it looked lie it might be a single-ended car. The box looked like one of the earlier ones, so I expected it would be mostly card with few castings. Well it came today. It's an IRR combine. AND........ It has copper sheet/plate sides and ends with really nice embossed and punched windows, door, and has great to-scale looking rivet detail. The curved ends are fully formed. The baggage doors are beautiful things alone. But finely detailed thinnish metal sides and ends ???? I have never heard that Paul ever did the like........... Nice white-line real BluePrints too.......... What a surprise of a kit! This is die stamped and cut. Best to ya, Mike Bauers Milwaukee, Wi

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17226	From: cwrailman	Date: 8/18/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology

Jay, I have hard bound copies of the MR 1940-1943 so if you tell me what you are looking for I can check them out. Don, I also have that Walthers passenger car catalog you mentioned, published date unknown as well as a copy of the Terminal Hobby Shop catalog from sometime in the mid to late 1970's. Denny, Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jay Wanczyk <the_plainsman@...> wrote: > > Next, besides finding a copy or photocpy of the 1937 Walthers HO catalog (and possibly a pre-Walthers Frank Taylor catalog, will be to review the Walthers Model railroader ads, as they often provide additional information.  I am virtually complete the years from 1937 on, but am missing 1938, 1940 and 1941, so may start looking again to find them reasoably or wait until the DVD is out. >   > W. Jay W. >    >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17227	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 8/19/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology

Walthers published the Terminal Hobby book catalog for a short time in the early 70's, not sure if there was more than one or not (I only have one). What it was was those lines that Walthers sold, but were NOT the distributor for. High points in the book were listings for LaBelle, Cary, Kar-Line, Ratio and some brass. Another interesting read at the time was the "Terminal Hobby Hot Box". This was a 4 to 8 page flyer every month listing what was new, announced ir just in. Kind of like the current Walthers flyer but without all the pretty pictures. The "Passenger Car Planbook" came out at the same time. What it actually was was a paperback bound collection of the plans from all the instruction sheets for all the kits Walthers had out at the time. What I would like to borrow one for is just to transcribe the prototype information for each kit, along with the lists of cars that could be kitbashed. It's a little project I'm working on just for my own enjoyment, trying to amass prototype and model data by manufacturer and railroad. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "cwrailman" <cwrailman@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2011 10:13 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology Jay, I have hard bound copies of the MR 1940-1943 so if you tell me what you are looking for I can check them out. Don, I also have that Walthers passenger car catalog you mentioned, published date unknown as well as a copy of the Terminal Hobby Shop catalog from sometime in the mid to late 1970's. Denny, Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jay Wanczyk <the_plainsman@...> wrote: > > Next, besides finding a copy or photocpy of the 1937 Walthers HO catalog > (and possibly a pre-Walthers Frank Taylor catalog, will be to review the > Walthers Model railroader ads, as they often provide additional > information. I am virtually complete the years from 1937 on, but am > missing 1938, 1940 and 1941, so may start looking again to find them > reasoably or wait until the DVD is out. >  > W. Jay W. >   > ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17228	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 8/19/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology

As John said, it was a Milwaukee Road F-6 or F-6A (I'm not sure which). The Milwaukee Road ordered the first big mainline 4-6-4 types in America, the wheel arrangement was already called the Baltic overseas, so that was what they were ordered as. However, the New York Central J-1 4-6-4's, while ordered after the Milwaukee's, actually rolled out of the erecting shops sooner, so the NYC had the privilege of naming them, hence the "Hudson" name. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "J. Gareth Edwards" <jgpedwards@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2011 9:29 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology Hey John: Yeah that is a wee bit different. I know the 4-6-4 is normally a Hudson, the appellation "Baltic" to me normally means CNJ Suburban.. -Gareth On 18 August 2011 22:24, John H <sprinthag@...> wrote: (text bobbitted)

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17229	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 8/19/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology

Makes sense the "Baltic" name came from Europe. Always liked the CNJ/CNR Suburban 4-6-4's -Gareth On 19 August 2011 07:53, Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote: As John said, it was a Milwaukee Road F-6 or F-6A (I'm not sure which). The Milwaukee Road ordered the first big mainline 4-6-4 types in America, the wheel arrangement was already called the Baltic overseas, so that was what they were ordered as.  However, the New York Central J-1 4-6-4's, while ordered after the Milwaukee's, actually rolled out of the erecting shops sooner, so the NYC had the privilege of naming them, hence the "Hudson" name. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "J. Gareth Edwards" <jgpedwards@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2011 9:29 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology Hey John: Yeah that is a wee bit different. I know the 4-6-4 is normally a Hudson, the appellation "Baltic" to me normally means CNJ Suburban.. -Gareth On 18 August 2011 22:24, John H <sprinthag@...> wrote: (text bobbitted) ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings:    Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to:    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join    (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email:    vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com    vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:    vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- "Clear Eyes, Full Heart, Can't Lose!"

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17230	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 8/19/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology

Minor correction, the Hiawatha engines were the streamlined F-7 baltics, ordered when the train outgrew the Class A atlantics (which were only two years old at the time). the F-6's pre-dated that by a few years when the Premier train was the Pioneer Limited. The F-6A's are still among my favorite steam locomotive. I had one of the PFM/United brass ones back in the early 70's, wish I'd never sold it. Don ----- Original Message ----- From: "John H" <sprinthag@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2011 9:24 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology Hardly. The Milwaukee Road Baltics were what most roads called Hudsons. They were powerful, fast, streamlined locmotives built expressly to pull the Hiawatha's. John Hagen --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "rcjge" <jgpedwards@...> wrote: > > Jay: > > two things; > > 1) the Baltic, is it a 4-6-4 "Suburban" Baltic? As in CNJ/CNR? > > 2) Interested in the HH stuff. I have a real nice Walther's HH body, cast > but not the Bronze. I found an old article on how to make an NH HH unit > powered by the Athearn SW chassis, which has to be better than the > original Walthers power trucks? Trying to decide which HH to depict and > thereby decide whether to round the hood edges, front/sides and/or top. > > Cheers, > Gareth > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jay Wanczyk <the_plainsman@> wrote: > > > > To Richard, Don and Glenn and All! Jim H. see the last sentence!) > >  > > Richard, thanks for the compliment for my efforts to date. We still > > have many blanks to fill, but I believe this to be a good beginning and > > framework to build upon. > >  > > Next, besides finding a copy or photocpy of the 1937 Walthers HO catalog > > (and possibly a pre-Walthers Frank Taylor catalog, will be to review the > > Walthers Model railroader ads, as they often provide additional > > information. I am virtually complete the years from 1937 on, but am > > missing 1938, 1940 and 1941, so may start looking again to find them > > reasoably or wait until the DVD is out. > >  > > Another step is to review Walthers newsletters, first called Crestline > > News, later called The Blazer. Only have two from 1938 and one or two > > of the latter circa 1950, so that will be catch as catch can. > >  > > The big step, but doable with catalogs and ads will be listing the > > catalog numbers and type cars that were offered each year, as there were > > constant revisions and special issues as well, even into the last few > > years. One big help in crosschecking will be the list posted in our > > group files listing the Walthers kits. > >  > > Don, One way we might be able to trace the period of use of the > > Crestline "brand" besides ads (the catalogs I have 1938-1950, excepting > > 1943, 1944 do not mention Crestline) is through examinination and > > documentation of existing kits we have, dating them by catalog number > > and those neat packing slips. > >  > > A few years ago, it was my uneducated assumption, at least early on, > > that Crestline was the name Walthers used on some of his O Scale kits, > > but proved my assumption wrong, as some of my yellow box Walthers > > passenger (and freight!) car kits have come in original Walthers > > Crestline boxes. Attached is a photo of a 6 volt "Crestline HO Motor > > Unit" which I found hidden on eBay a few years ago. > >  > >  > > Glen, One cool thing about Walthers is that they consistanly documnetd > > their line in several ways, and that book you mentioned likely will > > help. Walthers published a similar, no doubt smaller Guide to HO > > Passenger cars in 1943 as well, which I found in a gass electric kit box > > along with the supplemental gas electric plans and regular passenger car > > instructions. (only 13 different cars are shown in that 1943 guide > > edition, down from the number shown in the 1942 catalog.) > >   > > All: It's funny how I arrived at doing Walthers Passenger car research > > as I began by documenting the production of my favorite Bronze Walthers > > Alco High Hood switcher and the CNW Gas Electric. To understand and date > > those models year by year, it was necessary to document the production > > of the Walthers 6 and 12 volt power trucks, gear ratios, etc and also > > figure out what the story was about "those passenger cars." > >  > > The very detailed article on the Alco HH switchers, the bronze model as > > well as the different cast version, the Gas Electric and Walthers Power > > trucks will be done hopefully by fall.  The resarch is fun for me, if > > time consuming and one never knows where one will end up! What usually > > happens is that the more I know about a particular model, I end up > > wanting to add it to the collection! > >  > > Jim H, While knee deep in ancient Walthers catalogs, I am also copying > > down information on the development and changes to the Walthers Baltic > > locomotive and will try to wrap up what I have found to date and see if > > i can get it posted here in the next few days. > >  > > Think a ball game is on now, have to go and sit down and take a break, > > LOL! > >  > > W. Jay W. > >   > > > >  > > > > From: Richard White <toytrain13@> > > To: Jim Heckard <vintageho@yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2011 5:32 PM > > Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & > > Chronology > > > > > >  > > Jay- Terrific! I've recently begun constructing what you label Phase IV > > and V cars. Your detailed chronology makes the history of these kits > > a lot chearer. Thanks- Richard White > >  > > > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > From: the_plainsman@ > > Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 19:34:40 +0000 > > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology > > > >  > > Correction! In paragraph 14 exchange the last sentence, "I have > > nominally labeled thesefirst embossed tinplate sided cars(without > > embossed rivets) "Phase III cars." > > with "I have nominally labeled these second generation tinplate sided > > carsWITH embossed rivets, "Phase III Cars". > > Sorry, no matter how many time one proofreads, there is always an error > > that rears its ugly head after "send' is clicked. The summary at the > > end is OK  Jay > >  > >  > >  > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Jay" <the_plainsman@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Walthers Heavyweight Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology > > > > > > A few days ago I offered an off-the-cuff 45+ year chronology of the > > > Walthers Passenger car line without having my data at hand, so I went > > > to > > > the notes and history I have drafted along with my mostly complete > > > library of Walthers catalogs from 1938-1950 and some from 1960 and > > > later > > > and offer this brief chronology. (A summary appears at the end.) > > > > > > Wm. "Bill" Walthers always had a knack for spotting good smaller > > > manufacturers, buying them out and making improvements to those > > > products > > > as part of his line. He began by purchasing Frank Taylor's > > > "Taylor-Made" HO line consisting of the Milwaukee Baltic locomotive > > > and > > > a number of passenger and freight cars and Frank Taylor became an > > > employee for a time before becoming the editor of Model Railroader > > > magazine. > > > > > > Walthers 1938 HO Catalog, the earliest I have, describes the new > > > Walthers passenger car line as follows: > > > > > > "TAYLOR-MADE passenger cars are accurate to scale and the most > > > realistic > > > HO models on the market. Car sides and sash are now made of Armite > > > which > > > is tough and durable. Window and door openings are punched out clean, > > > belt rail and doors are depressed. Roof, floor and ends are made of > > > wood, milled to size. Diaphragms are made of folded paper with metal > > > rubbing plate. Details include: roof and underbelly details, diecast > > > steps, couplers, triple valve, generator and air brake cylinder. All > > > trucks come assembled. Paint, transfersand drawings included." > > > > > > Interesting to note the phrasing that "Car sides and sash are now made > > > of Armite;" does this mean that they were originally made of perhaps > > > plain card sides like the freight cars during Taylor's production or > > > possibly even the first year of Walthers production? > > > > > > In 1938 Walthers cataloged passenger cars in the 5600 series, with 13 > > > different types and 8 additional paint/decal variations, for a total > > > of > > > 21 different kits. The CNW gas electric was also listed in the 5600 > > > series and it may be logically assumed for the present that it also > > > had > > > Armite sides as the listing states, "Plan of construction and design > > > of > > > parts is the same as for our passenger cars." For reason that will be > > > clear later, I have nominally labeled these "Armite" sided passenger > > > cars with wood ends, "Phase 1 cars." > > > > > > In his 1939 HO catalog (#3), Walthers dropped the references to the > > > "Taylor-Made" line and opened the passenger car page with this > > > modified > > > quote, " Without a .doubt, the Walthers' line of HO passenger car > > > models are the most realistic miniature cars ever offered." The > > > description of materials is the same as the precious year, however, > > > and > > > this also includes the gas electric. > > > > > > The 1940 Walthers HO Catalog announced the first major change in > > > passenger car construction with the introduction of embossed tinplate > > > sides and cast metal ends. > > > > > > Walthers states, "For some time we have been working on a redesigned > > > HO > > > passenger car to get away from the use of armite sides and give the HO > > > cars some of the outstanding features of our O gauge line." He > > > continued > > > below, "The features of these new cars include: highly detailed die > > > cast > > > ends with lugs for attaching the roof and the floor, pressed metal > > > sides > > > with panel doors and windows and embossed letterboard and belt rail. > > > The > > > sides are channeled so they may be attached to the underside of the > > > floor and roof..." > > > > > > Eleven different types of cars were listed, now numbered in the 6600 > > > series. I have nominally labeled these first embossed tinplate sided > > > cars (without embossed rivets) "Phase II cars." > > > > > > In 1940, the CNW gas electric was still listed in the 5600 series but > > > the description was unchanged from previous years, "Plan of > > > construction > > > and design of parts is the same as for our passenger cars." For now, > > > it > > > will be difficult to conclusively say when the change from Armite to > > > tinplate side occurred, (Phase I to Phase II) but it might have been > > > concurrent with the regular passenger car change. > > > > > > The construction of 6600 series of Walthers passenger cars essentially > > > continued virtually unchanged from the 1940 catalog through the 1949 > > > catalog, though in that year there were now 21 different types. > > > However, > > > in 1942 first mention was made that "Rivet effect is obtained by > > > applying paper overlay with scale embossed paper rivets." I suppose > > > that Walthers was feeling the heat from his competItors like Varney, > > > whose heavyweights featured finely embossed rivets on their sides. . > > > > > > Though it was sold with Phase II construction, namely cars now having > > > embossed tinplate sides, but without rivets similar to the 6600 > > > passenger cars, the CNW Gas Electric was still inexplicably numbered > > > in > > > the 5600 series! > > > > > > 1950 saw the next major change in Walthers passenger car > > > construction - > > > rivets! In the introduction to the Passenger car section, Walthers > > > states, " The new 7600 series of HO passenger cars (and the 7500 > > > series > > > traction kits) are marvels for detail..." The caption next to an > > > enlarged photo of a portion of a car side notes the embossed rivets. > > > The > > > top and bottom of the side was still "folded" to permit easy mounting > > > to > > > floor and roof. Twenty-eight different car types and roof > > > configurations > > > were cataloged. I have nominally labeled these first embossed tinplate > > > sided cars (without embossed rivets) "Phase III cars." > > > > > > In 1950, the CNW gas electric numbering was changed to the 6450 series > > > with a new matching trailer listed in the 7600 series. This is likely > > > when the riveted sided appeared, matching the changes in the regular > > > passenger line. > > > > > > The Walthers line continued through the 1950's without much change > > > to the passenger car line construction, with the notable exception of > > > the special "Pug" Passenger cars and the Shuttle Jack. However, new > > > window configurations were introduced in the regular passenger car > > > line > > > based upon various prototypes. > > > > > > The 1960 Walthers HO catalog heralded the next major change in > > > standard > > > passenger car construction which affected both the car sides and roof > > > profile and a introduced a new number series, the 7800's. First, the > > > sides had a "New straight design (not folded under at bottom) makes it > > > easy to detail the underbelly." "Goo" was promoted for assembly. > > > > > > The roof cross section was substantially changed as well, considerably > > > higher , quote, "to match the old J-C cars and present day models..." > > > The new roof part number was M381 while the old, lower profile, M-133 > > > was still available separately for those who wanted to match their > > > older > > > Walthers cars. I have read somewhere that the original Walthers, AKA > > > Taylor-Made passenger cars were scaled 1/8" to the foot and not 3.5 > > > mm. > > > Would that account for the fact that the Walthers roofs were always a > > > bit low in comparison to other scale dimentioned HO passenger cars? > > > > > > I have nominally labeled these "Phase IV cars." > > > > > > The early 1960's also saw many additional types of passenger cars, > > > such as the Favorite Prototype series, but construction technique and > > > material reflected that of the standard (not Pug) line, though in some > > > cases, special car ends (horse car) were made.. > > > > > > The last notable change to the standard line of Walthers passenger > > > cars > > > occurred in the 1970's(?) When molded plastic roof sections were > > > made available. I would label them Phase V cars. > > > > > > While not a complete Walther's passenger car history, this > > > information, along with Don's detailed description of Walthers kit box > > > designs, will allow one to make a good estimate of when a particular > > > kit > > > or model was manufactured over their 45+ year run. > > > > > > Summary - Walthers Passenger Car Construction (by catalog date) > > > > > > 1937(?)-1939; Armite (card or fibre) sides, wood roof floor and ends; > > > 5600 series, (Phase I) > > > > > > 1940-1949; Tinplated steel sides with top and bottom fold; no rivets > > > or > > > with paper rivet strips; cast white metal ends; 6600 series, (Phase > > > II) > > > > > > 1950-1959; Tinplated steel sides with top and bottom fold; with > > > embossed > > > rivets; cast white metal ends, wood roof and floor; 7600 series, > > > (Phase > > > III) > > > > > > 1960-?: Tinplated steel sides without bottom fold; with embossed > > > rivets; > > > cast white metal ends, new high profile wood roof, floor; 7800 series, > > > (Phase IV) > > > > > > 1970's(?)-end: Tinplated steel sides without bottom fold; embossed > > > rivets; cast white metal ends, plastic roof, wood floor; 7800 series, > > > (Phase V) > > > > > > Please recognize that this information is not complete or final and > > > subject to revision as more information becomes available (or I am > > > corrected, lol!) . Walthers name (C) copyright Walthers. The > > > presentation of factual information, personal descriptions and > > > conclusions are (C) 2011 W. Jay Wanczyk. > > > > > > Whew! > > > > > > W. Jay W. > > > > > > ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17231	From: Model RailRoad	Date: 8/19/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology

Imteresting sidebar At a MRIA (Model RR Industry Assoc) meeting or trade show some 25 years ago I was in conversation with one of the Walthers. He noted our Indiana location and observed that his tinplate for passenger cars came from "just down the road." Seems they bought factory reject (or mill ends?) of food can metal from Ball (Muncie, IN). Merle Rice Modell RR Warehouse --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > One thing that we haven't pinned down is when the name of the metal cars > changed from "Crestline" to "Walthers". > > I was not aware of the card side Taylor-made cars, I had always considered > the original metal Crestline cars as "phase I", but now I see I need to up > my terminology a bit. > > Don > > Don Dellmann > don.dellmann@... > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ > http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction > Owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jay" <the_plainsman@...> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2011 2:19 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology > > > > Walthers Heavyweight Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology > > A few days ago I offered an off-the-cuff 45+ year chronology of the > Walthers Passenger car line without having my data at hand, so I went to > the notes and history I have drafted along with my mostly complete > library of Walthers catalogs from 1938-1950 and some from 1960 and later > and offer this brief chronology. (A summary appears at the end.) > > Wm. "Bill" Walthers always had a knack for spotting good smaller > manufacturers, buying them out and making improvements to those products > as part of his line. He began by purchasing Frank Taylor's > "Taylor-Made" HO line consisting of the Milwaukee Baltic locomotive and > a number of passenger and freight cars and Frank Taylor became an > employee for a time before becoming the editor of Model Railroader > magazine. > > Walthers 1938 HO Catalog, the earliest I have, describes the new > Walthers passenger car line as follows: > > "TAYLOR-MADE passenger cars are accurate to scale and the most realistic > HO models on the market. Car sides and sash are now made of Armite which > is tough and durable. Window and door openings are punched out clean, > belt rail and doors are depressed. Roof, floor and ends are made of > wood, milled to size. Diaphragms are made of folded paper with metal > rubbing plate. Details include: roof and underbelly details, diecast > steps, couplers, triple valve, generator and air brake cylinder. All > trucks come assembled. Paint, transfersand drawings included." > > Interesting to note the phrasing that "Car sides and sash are now made > of Armite;" does this mean that they were originally made of perhaps > plain card sides like the freight cars during Taylor's production or > possibly even the first year of Walthers production? > > In 1938 Walthers cataloged passenger cars in the 5600 series, with 13 > different types and 8 additional paint/decal variations, for a total of > 21 different kits. The CNW gas electric was also listed in the 5600 > series and it may be logically assumed for the present that it also had > Armite sides as the listing states, "Plan of construction and design of > parts is the same as for our passenger cars." For reason that will be > clear later, I have nominally labeled these "Armite" sided passenger > cars with wood ends, "Phase 1 cars." > > In his 1939 HO catalog (#3), Walthers dropped the references to the > "Taylor-Made" line and opened the passenger car page with this modified > quote, " Without a .doubt, the Walthers' line of HO passenger car > models are the most realistic miniature cars ever offered." The > description of materials is the same as the precious year, however, and > this also includes the gas electric. > > The 1940 Walthers HO Catalog announced the first major change in > passenger car construction with the introduction of embossed tinplate > sides and cast metal ends. > > Walthers states, "For some time we have been working on a redesigned HO > passenger car to get away from the use of armite sides and give the HO > cars some of the outstanding features of our O gauge line." He continued > below, "The features of these new cars include: highly detailed die cast > ends with lugs for attaching the roof and the floor, pressed metal sides > with panel doors and windows and embossed letterboard and belt rail. The > sides are channeled so they may be attached to the underside of the > floor and roof..." > > Eleven different types of cars were listed, now numbered in the 6600 > series. I have nominally labeled these first embossed tinplate sided > cars (without embossed rivets) "Phase II cars." > > In 1940, the CNW gas electric was still listed in the 5600 series but > the description was unchanged from previous years, "Plan of construction > and design of parts is the same as for our passenger cars." For now, it > will be difficult to conclusively say when the change from Armite to > tinplate side occurred, (Phase I to Phase II) but it might have been > concurrent with the regular passenger car change. > > The construction of 6600 series of Walthers passenger cars essentially > continued virtually unchanged from the 1940 catalog through the 1949 > catalog, though in that year there were now 21 different types. However, > in 1942 first mention was made that "Rivet effect is obtained by > applying paper overlay with scale embossed paper rivets." I suppose > that Walthers was feeling the heat from his competItors like Varney, > whose heavyweights featured finely embossed rivets on their sides. . > > Though it was sold with Phase II construction, namely cars now having > embossed tinplate sides, but without rivets similar to the 6600 > passenger cars, the CNW Gas Electric was still inexplicably numbered in > the 5600 series! > > 1950 saw the next major change in Walthers passenger car construction - > rivets! In the introduction to the Passenger car section, Walthers > states, " The new 7600 series of HO passenger cars (and the 7500 series > traction kits) are marvels for detail..." The caption next to an > enlarged photo of a portion of a car side notes the embossed rivets. The > top and bottom of the side was still "folded" to permit easy mounting to > floor and roof. Twenty-eight different car types and roof configurations > were cataloged. I have nominally labeled these first embossed tinplate > sided cars (without embossed rivets) "Phase III cars." > > In 1950, the CNW gas electric numbering was changed to the 6450 series > with a new matching trailer listed in the 7600 series. This is likely > when the riveted sided appeared, matching the changes in the regular > passenger line. > > The Walthers line continued through the 1950's without much change > to the passenger car line construction, with the notable exception of > the special "Pug" Passenger cars and the Shuttle Jack. However, new > window configurations were introduced in the regular passenger car line > based upon various prototypes. > > The 1960 Walthers HO catalog heralded the next major change in standard > passenger car construction which affected both the car sides and roof > profile and a introduced a new number series, the 7800's. First, the > sides had a "New straight design (not folded under at bottom) makes it > easy to detail the underbelly." "Goo" was promoted for assembly. > > The roof cross section was substantially changed as well, considerably > higher , quote, "to match the old J-C cars and present day models..." > The new roof part number was M381 while the old, lower profile, M-133 > was still available separately for those who wanted to match their older > Walthers cars. I have read somewhere that the original Walthers, AKA > Taylor-Made passenger cars were scaled 1/8" to the foot and not 3.5 mm. > Would that account for the fact that the Walthers roofs were always a > bit low in comparison to other scale dimentioned HO passenger cars? > > I have nominally labeled these "Phase IV cars." > > The early 1960's also saw many additional types of passenger cars, > such as the Favorite Prototype series, but construction technique and > material reflected that of the standard (not Pug) line, though in some > cases, special car ends (horse car) were made.. > > The last notable change to the standard line of Walthers passenger cars > occurred in the 1970's(?) When molded plastic roof sections were > made available. I would label them Phase V cars. > > While not a complete Walther's passenger car history, this > information, along with Don's detailed description of Walthers kit box > designs, will allow one to make a good estimate of when a particular kit > or model was manufactured over their 45+ year run. > > Summary - Walthers Passenger Car Construction (by catalog date) > > 1937(?)-1939; Armite (card or fibre) sides, wood roof floor and ends; > 5600 series, (Phase I) > > 1940-1949; Tinplated steel sides with top and bottom fold; no rivets or > with paper rivet strips; cast white metal ends; 6600 series, (Phase II) > > 1950-1959; Tinplated steel sides with top and bottom fold; with embossed > rivets; cast white metal ends, wood roof and floor; 7600 series, (Phase > III) > > 1960-?: Tinplated steel sides without bottom fold; with embossed rivets; > cast white metal ends, new high profile wood roof, floor; 7800 series, > (Phase IV) > > 1970's(?)-end: Tinplated steel sides without bottom fold; embossed > rivets; cast white metal ends, plastic roof, wood floor; 7800 series, > (Phase V) > > Please recognize that this information is not complete or final and > subject to revision as more information becomes available (or I am > corrected, lol!) . Walthers name (C) copyright Walthers. The > presentation of factual information, personal descriptions and > conclusions are (C) 2011 W. Jay Wanczyk. > > Whew! > > W. Jay W. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17232	From: Denny Anspach	Date: 8/19/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology

The Chronology is excellent, the best I have yet come across, and probably is definitive. Taylor was an inventive fellow model railroad entrepreneur in Milwaukee, and he apparently worked did job work for Bill Walthers in the mid thirties, before selling him the Baltic locomotive kit, and then becoming for a time a Walthers employee. He must have had the passenger car kit concept "in his brief case" when he joined Walthers (Dec 1935?) to answer for why Walthers first produced them under the Taylor name. I always presumed that the first cars were made to 1/8" scale because of the out-of-scale low roofs and the reduced heights of the sides occasioned by having the lower sheets fold under the floor rather than extend substantially *below* the floor as in the prototype. This view has been controverted by Walthers own repeated printed words at the time indicating a full 3.5mm/ft. scale. The JC roofs were the proper height, but the profile was distorted and incorrect with a "squished-down" clearstory. I replaced most of my JC roofs of the time with the later Walthers wood roofs, which were then and are still now pretty much correct both in height and profile. The Milwaukee Baltic 4-6-4 locomotives were designed and ordered in 1927, long before the streamline era. They were called BALTICs after the assigned designation of only other 4-6-4s previously-built and named, , the noted French NORD 4-6-4 locomotives of 1912, the first locomotives of this wheel arrangement. The NYC's 4-6-4 HUDSONs were not yet ordered, although they soon were. Because of the severe financial problems of the Milwaukee at the time (it had just finished reorganization), the order was delayed so that the NYC's Hudsons were delivered first, claiming pride of place and name. Right up until the last, however, all the Milwaukee's 4-6-4s, both the early F6's and the later, larger and streamlined F-7s were officially designated BALTICS, never HUDSONs. The very last 4-6-4s ever built c. 1948, and probably the greatest of them all, were also French , and also designated as BALTICs (they were gorgeous locomotives). They were designed by the legendary Andre Chapelon, undoubtedly the dean of steam locomotive engineering. Denny Denny S. Anspach, MD Okoboji, Iowa

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17233	From: corv9	Date: 8/19/2011
Subject: Re: I didn't know about these Paul Moore's.......

> > Well it came today. It's an IRR combine. > > AND........ > > It has copper sheet/plate sides and ends with really nice embossed and > punched windows, door, and has great to-scale looking rivet detail. Mike, it might be an Exacta kit in an wrong box. Have one like this, in original Exacta box. Exacta did a Curvesider and this combine, and maybe other Trolleys I dont know. my mail program doesnt work right now, and I find no way top attach pictures to a webpost. Hope the link will work. Its in the Photos sectuion, Gerold models. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/album/1445113645/pic/95573361/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17234	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 8/19/2011
Subject: Varney Slope Back Tender

W Jay W, I received that Varney cast slope back tender today. I will reread your previous message and see if I can answer your questions. I hate taking my pieces of the shelf and turning them over but I will see what I can do. Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17235	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 8/19/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology [1 Attachment]

As the poster of that list, if I can add some from –to columns to the list let me know the dates.  I will then add them.  The list was complied from the revised second edition of the Walthers passenger car plans book copyrighted 1973. Take care,   Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jay Wanczyk Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2011 9:20 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology [1 Attachment]     To Richard, Don and Glenn and All! Jim H. see the last sentence!)   Richard, thanks for the compliment for my efforts to date.  We still have many blanks to fill, but I believe this to be a good beginning and framework to build upon.    Next, besides finding a copy or photocpy of the 1937 Walthers HO catalog (and possibly a pre-Walthers Frank Taylor catalog, will be to review the Walthers Model railroader ads, as they often provide additional information.  I am virtually complete the years from 1937 on, but am missing 1938, 1940 and 1941, so may start looking again to find them reasoably or wait until the DVD is out.   Another step is to review Walthers newsletters, first called Crestline News, later called The Blazer.  Only have two from 1938 and one or two of the latter circa 1950, so that will be catch as catch can.   The big step, but doable with catalogs and ads will be listing the catalog numbers and type cars that were offered each year, as there were constant revisions and special issues as well, even into the last few years. One big help in crosschecking will be the list posted in our group files listing the Walthers kits.   Don, One way we might be able to trace the period of use of the Crestline "brand" besides ads (the catalogs I have 1938-1950, excepting 1943, 1944 do not mention Crestline) is through examinination and documentation of existing kits we have, dating them by catalog number and those neat packing slips.   A few years ago, it was my uneducated assumption, at least early on, that Crestline was the name Walthers used on some of his O Scale kits, but proved my assumption wrong, as some of my yellow box Walthers passenger (and freight!) car kits have come in original Walthers Crestline boxes. Attached is a photo of a 6 volt "Crestline HO Motor Unit" which I found hidden on eBay a few years ago.     Glen, One cool thing about Walthers is that they consistanly documnetd their line in several ways, and that book you mentioned likely will help.  Walthers published a similar, no doubt smaller Guide to HO Passenger cars in 1943 as well, which I found in a gass electric kit box along with the supplemental gas electric plans and regular passenger car instructions.  (only 13 different cars are shown in that 1943 guide edition, down from the number shown in the 1942 catalog.)    All:  It's funny how I arrived at doing Walthers Passenger car research as I began by documenting the production of my favorite Bronze Walthers Alco High Hood switcher and the CNW Gas Electric. To understand and date those models year by year, it was necessary to document the production of the Walthers 6 and 12 volt power trucks, gear ratios, etc and also figure out what the story was about "those passenger cars."   The very detailed article on the Alco HH switchers, the bronze model as well as the different cast version, the Gas Electric and Walthers Power trucks will be done hopefully by fall.  The resarch is fun for me, if time consuming and one never knows where one will end up!  What usually happens is that the more I know about a particular model, I end up wanting to add it to the collection!   Jim H, While knee deep in ancient Walthers catalogs, I am also copying down information on the development and changes to the Walthers Baltic locomotive and will try to wrap up what I have found to date and see if i can get it posted here in the next few days.   Think a ball game is on now, have to go and sit down and take a break, LOL!   W. Jay W.        From: Richard White <toytrain13@...> To: Jim Heckard <vintageho@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2011 5:32 PM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology   Jay- Terrific! I've recently begun constructing what you label Phase IV and V cars. Your detailed chronology makes the history of these kits a lot chearer. Thanks- Richard White    To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: the_plainsman@... Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 19:34:40 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology   Correction!  In paragraph 14 exchange  the last sentence, "I have nominally labeled thesefirst embossed tinplate sided cars (without embossed rivets) "Phase III cars."  with "I have nominally labeled these second generation tinplate sided cars WITH embossed rivets, "Phase III Cars". Sorry, no matter how many time one proofreads, there is always an error that rears its ugly head after "send' is clicked. The summary at the end is OK   Jay        --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Jay" <the_plainsman@...> wrote: > > > Walthers Heavyweight Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology > > A few days ago I offered an off-the-cuff 45+ year chronology of the > Walthers Passenger car line without having my data at hand, so I went to > the notes and history I have drafted along with my mostly complete > library of Walthers catalogs from 1938-1950 and some from 1960 and later > and offer this brief chronology. (A summary appears at the end.) > > Wm. "Bill" Walthers always had a knack for spotting good smaller > manufacturers, buying them out and making improvements to those products > as part of his line. He began by purchasing Frank Taylor's > "Taylor-Made" HO line consisting of the Milwaukee Baltic locomotive and > a number of passenger and freight cars and Frank Taylor became an > employee for a time before becoming the editor of Model Railroader > magazine. > > Walthers 1938 HO Catalog, the earliest I have, describes the new > Walthers passenger car line as follows: > > "TAYLOR-MADE passenger cars are accurate to scale and the most realistic > HO models on the market. Car sides and sash are now made of Armite which > is tough and durable. Window and door openings are punched out clean, > belt rail and doors are depressed. Roof, floor and ends are made of > wood, milled to size. Diaphragms are made of folded paper with metal > rubbing plate. Details include: roof and underbelly details, diecast > steps, couplers, triple valve, generator and air brake cylinder. All > trucks come assembled. Paint, transfersand drawings included." > > Interesting to note the phrasing that "Car sides and sash are now made > of Armite;" does this mean that they were originally made of perhaps > plain card sides like the freight cars during w:st="on">Taylor 's production or > possibly even the first year of Walthers production? > > In 1938 Walthers cataloged passenger cars in the 5600 series, with 13 > different types and 8 additional paint/decal variations, for a total of > 21 different kits. The CNW gas electric was also listed in the 5600 > series and it may be logically assumed for the present that it also had > Armite sides as the listing states, "Plan of construction and design of > parts is the same as for our passenger cars." For reason that will be > clear later, I have nominally labeled these "Armite" sided passenger > cars with wood ends, "Phase 1 cars." > > In his 1939 HO catalog (#3), Walthers dropped the references to the > "Taylor-Made" line and opened the passenger car page with this modified > quote, " Without a .doubt, the Walthers' line of HO passenger car > models are the most realistic miniature cars ever offered." The > description of materials is the same as the precious year, however, and > this also includes the gas electric. > > The 1940 Walthers HO Catalog announced the first major change in > passenger car construction with the introduction of embossed tinplate > sides and cast metal ends. > > Walthers states, "For some time we have been working on a redesigned HO > passenger car to get away from the use of armite sides and give the HO > cars some of the outstanding features of our O gauge line." He continued > below, "The features of these new cars include: highly detailed die cast > ends with lugs for attaching the roof and the floor, pressed metal sides > with panel doors and windows and embossed letterboard and belt rail. The > sides are channeled so they may be attached to the underside of the > floor and roof..." > > Eleven different types of cars were listed, now numbered in the 6600 > series. I have nominally labeled these first embossed tinplate sided > cars (without embossed rivets) "Phase II cars." > > In 1940, the CNW gas electric was still listed in the 5600 series but > the description was unchanged from previous years, "Plan of construction > and design of parts is the same as for our passenger cars." For now, it > will be difficult to conclusively say when the change from Armite to > tinplate side occurred, (Phase I to Phase II) but it might have been > concurrent with the regular passenger car change. > > The construction of 6600 series of Walthers passenger cars essentially > continued virtually unchanged from the 1940 catalog through the 1949 > catalog, though in that year there were now 21 different types. However, > in 1942 first mention was made that "Rivet effect is obtained by > applying paper overlay with scale embossed paper rivets." I suppose > that Walthers was feeling the heat from his competItors like Varney, > whose heavyweights featured finely embossed rivets on their sides. . > > Though it was sold with Phase II construction, namely cars now having > embossed tinplate sides, but without rivets similar to the 6600 > passenger cars, the CNW Gas Electric was still inexplicably numbered in > the 5600 series! > > 1950 saw the next major change in Walthers passenger car construction - > rivets! In the introduction to the Passenger car section, Walthers > states, " The new 7600 series of HO passenger cars (and the 7500 series > traction kits) are marvels for detail..." The caption next to an > enlarged photo of a portion of a car side notes the embossed rivets. The > top and bottom of the side was still "folded" to permit easy mounting to > floor and roof. Twenty-eight different car types and roof configurations > were cataloged. I have nominally labeled these first embossed tinplate > sided cars (without embossed rivets) "Phase III cars." > > In 1950, the CNW gas electric numbering was changed to the 6450 series > with a new matching trailer listed in the 7600 series. This is likely > when the riveted sided appeared, matching the changes in the regular > passenger line. > > The Walthers line continued through the 1950's without much change > to the passenger car line construction, with the notable exception of > the special "Pug" Passenger cars and the Shuttle Jack. However, new > window configurations were introduced in the regular passenger car line > based upon various prototypes. > > The 1960 Walthers HO catalog heralded the next major change in standard > passenger car construction which affected both the car sides and roof > profile and a introduced a new number series, the 7800's. First, the > sides had a "New straight design (not folded under at bottom) makes it > easy to detail the underbelly." "Goo" was promoted for assembly. > > The roof cross section was substantially changed as well, considerably > higher , quote, "to match the old J-C cars and present day models..." > The new roof part number was M381 while the old, lower profile, M-133 > was still available separately for those who wanted to match their older > Walthers cars. I have read somewhere that the original Walthers, AKA > Taylor-Made passenger cars were scaled 1/8" to the foot and not 3.5 mm. > Would that account for the fact that the Walthers roofs were always a > bit low in comparison to other scale dimentioned HO passenger cars? > > I have nominally labeled these "Phase IV cars." > > The early 1960's also saw many additional types of passenger cars, > such as the Favorite Prototype series, but construction technique and > material reflected that of the standard (not Pug) line, though in some > cases, special car ends (horse car) were made.. > > The last notable change to the standard line of Walthers passenger cars > occurred in the 1970's(?) When molded plastic roof sections were > made available. I would label them Phase V cars. > > While not a complete Walther's passenger car history, this > information, along with Don's detailed description of Walthers kit box > designs, will allow one to make a good estimate of when a particular kit > or model was manufactured over their 45+ year run. > > Summary - Walthers Passenger Car Construction (by catalog date) > > 1937(?)-1939; Armite (card or fibre) sides, wood roof floor and ends; > 5600 series, (Phase I) > > 1940-1949; Tinplated steel sides with top and bottom fold; no rivets or > with paper rivet strips; cast white metal ends; 6600 series, (Phase II) > > 1950-1959; Tinplated steel sides with top and bottom fold; with embossed > rivets; cast white metal ends, wood roof and floor; 7600 series, (Phase > III) > > 1960-?: Tinplated steel sides without bottom fold; with embossed rivets; > cast white metal ends, new high profile wood roof, floor; 7800 series, > (Phase IV) > > 1970's(?)-end: Tinplated steel sides without bottom fold; embossed > rivets; cast white metal ends, plastic roof, wood floor; 7800 series, > (Phase V) > > Please recognize that this information is not complete or final and > subject to revision as more information becomes available (or I am > corrected, lol!) . Walthers name (C) copyright Walthers. The > presentation of factual information, personal descriptions and > conclusions are (C) 2011 W. Jay Wanczyk. > > Whew! > > W. Jay W. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17236	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 8/19/2011
Subject: Varney Slope Back tenders

W Jay W, I started to check the thing you asked about concerning the three slope back tenders Pre War lead body only, pre war cast body only and the post war 1894K cast body with detail parts. As luck would have it I haven't been able to locate my cast pre war body so I can only compare the other two. You have good eyes because what you saw on the 1984k is right. Has 1984 inside top of body and the word Varney running vertically on the right side. Also the underside of the right front step when flipped over does the word varney raised appears in very small letter all of which are turned on their sides. I did notice the steps and step holders along with the coupler pocket are different on the 1984k then the pre war bodies. As for the pre war cast lead body only no Varney name or numbers appears anywhere I can see inside the tender. I have a "hunch" the pre war cast body only would be the same . One thing you have to remember is that when the Varney Guide was put together there were unknown numbers for many items like pre war steam and other pre war items. In an effort to try to give everything a number many were created but had [ ] parenthesis around this created number like the [ 765 ] slope back pre war tender bodies to help distinguish these . Hope I'm explaining that properly. Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17237	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 8/19/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology

----- Original Message ----- From: "Model RailRoad" <mrrwarehouse@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, August 19, 2011 7:13 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology > Imteresting sidebar > At a MRIA (Model RR Industry Assoc) meeting or trade show some 25 years > ago I was in conversation with one of the Walthers. He noted our Indiana > location and observed that his tinplate for passenger cars came from "just > down the road." Seems they bought factory reject (or mill ends?) of food > can metal from Ball (Muncie, IN). > > Merle Rice > Modell RR Warehouse Ball has a huge beer can plant across the street from my workplace, maybe I should take a walk over there, get some sheet aluminum. :-)

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17238	From: rcjge	Date: 8/20/2011
Subject: Running Older Olympia Brass

Hey Guys: Was wondering if anyone was running older Olympia brass, say `60's? How did/do they run... likes/dislikes....? Thanks, Gareth Bradford-WG, Ont.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17239	From: cwrailman	Date: 8/20/2011
Subject: Re: Running Older Olympia Brass

Gareth, If I may make a suggestion, go to this board and ask the same question: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/brasscollectors/?yguid=61385387 In addition, the guys on the remotoring and regearing board can give you specifics about the mechanisms. Remember the original open frame motors included in those models are not as quiet or efficient as the can motors we have available today. Having said that they all may ask you which model are you specifically asking about because as with any importer, there are a lot of variations in workmanship from one model to another and they all used various builders for their models. So, which model, or series, are you speaking about?? Now on to the shops, Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "rcjge" <jgpedwards@...> wrote: > > Hey Guys: > > Was wondering if anyone was running older Olympia brass, say `60's? How did/do they run... likes/dislikes....? > > Thanks, > Gareth > Bradford-WG, Ont. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17240	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 8/20/2011
Subject: Re: Running Older Olympia Brass

Hi Denny: It's the 0-4-2T Vulcan Tank switcher. A fave prototype engine of mine. I grabbed an old Olympia Brass one. -Gareth On 20 August 2011 13:43, cwrailman <cwrailman@...> wrote:   Gareth, If I may make a suggestion, go to this board and ask the same question: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/brasscollectors/?yguid=61385387 In addition, the guys on the remotoring and regearing board can give you specifics about the mechanisms. Remember the original open frame motors included in those models are not as quiet or efficient as the can motors we have available today. Having said that they all may ask you which model are you specifically asking about because as with any importer, there are a lot of variations in workmanship from one model to another and they all used various builders for their models. So, which model, or series, are you speaking about?? Now on to the shops, Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "rcjge" <jgpedwards@...> wrote: > > Hey Guys: > > Was wondering if anyone was running older Olympia brass, say `60's? How did/do they run... likes/dislikes....? > > Thanks, > Gareth > Bradford-WG, Ont. > -- "Clear Eyes, Full Heart, Can't Lose!"

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17241	From: cwrailman	Date: 8/20/2011
Subject: Re: Running Older Olympia Brass

Gareth, This is not an engine that I am personally familiar with however it appears to be one of the basic stock models that were sold via various importers such as Gem and LMB. Without seeing the chassis I am assuming that the drive is similar to the 2-4-4T Forney that was built about the same time. The axles ride directly in the frame without bearings and they are unsprung. It does not have a gear box and the worm is mounted directly on the motor shaft. The motor and worm are aligned to engage the worm gear. Correct me if I am mistaken. Anyway if you have a few images I can make a few suggestions or you can join the Yahoo remotoring and regearing group and present the issue. By today's standards the loco's from that era do not run well. The old open frame motors cannot compare to the new can motors. That will make a significant improvement to performance. There are several motors currently available on eBay which I could suggest if I saw the existing installation. Then there is the issue of installing a gear box. Of course if you are intent on keeping the model original then this is all moot. Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "J. Gareth Edwards" <jgpedwards@...> wrote: > > Hi Denny: > > It's the 0-4-2T Vulcan Tank switcher. > > A fave prototype engine of mine. I grabbed an old Olympia Brass one. > > -Gareth > > > > On 20 August 2011 13:43, cwrailman <cwrailman@...> wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > Gareth, > > > > If I may make a suggestion, go to this board and ask the same question: > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/brasscollectors/?yguid=61385387 > > > > In addition, the guys on the remotoring and regearing board can give you > > specifics about the mechanisms. Remember the original open frame motors > > included in those models are not as quiet or efficient as the can motors we > > have available today. > > > > Having said that they all may ask you which model are you specifically > > asking about because as with any importer, there are a lot of variations in > > workmanship from one model to another and they all used various builders for > > their models. So, which model, or series, are you speaking about?? > > > > Now on to the shops, > > > > Denny > > Janitor in Training > > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "rcjge" <jgpedwards@> wrote: > > > > > > Hey Guys: > > > > > > Was wondering if anyone was running older Olympia brass, say `60's? How > > did/do they run... likes/dislikes....? > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Gareth > > > Bradford-WG, Ont. > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > "Clear Eyes, Full Heart, Can't Lose!" >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17242	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 8/20/2011
Subject: Re: Running Older Olympia Brass

Hi Deeny: I'm a member of the RE&RE group. Don't have it yet, likely get here sometime in Sept. I would think... Think of a brass version of an Athearn L`il Monster and you'll have it. I know somewhere I have a pic of the prototype, just can't remember the name of the damn picture! Grrrrrr! -Gareth On 20 August 2011 19:59, cwrailman <cwrailman@...> wrote:   Gareth, This is not an engine that I am personally familiar with however it appears to be one of the basic stock models that were sold via various importers such as Gem and LMB. Without seeing the chassis I am assuming that the drive is similar to the 2-4-4T Forney that was built about the same time. The axles ride directly in the frame without bearings and they are unsprung. It does not have a gear box and the worm is mounted directly on the motor shaft. The motor and worm are aligned to engage the worm gear. Correct me if I am mistaken. Anyway if you have a few images I can make a few suggestions or you can join the Yahoo remotoring and regearing group and present the issue. By today's standards the loco's from that era do not run well. The old open frame motors cannot compare to the new can motors. That will make a significant improvement to performance. There are several motors currently available on eBay which I could suggest if I saw the existing installation. Then there is the issue of installing a gear box. Of course if you are intent on keeping the model original then this is all moot. Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "J. Gareth Edwards" <jgpedwards@...> wrote: > > Hi Denny: > > It's the 0-4-2T Vulcan Tank switcher. > > A fave prototype engine of mine. I grabbed an old Olympia Brass one. > > -Gareth > > > > On 20 August 2011 13:43, cwrailman <cwrailman@...> wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > Gareth, > > > > If I may make a suggestion, go to this board and ask the same question: > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/brasscollectors/?yguid=61385387 > > > > In addition, the guys on the remotoring and regearing board can give you > > specifics about the mechanisms. Remember the original open frame motors > > included in those models are not as quiet or efficient as the can motors we > > have available today. > > > > Having said that they all may ask you which model are you specifically > > asking about because as with any importer, there are a lot of variations in > > workmanship from one model to another and they all used various builders for > > their models. So, which model, or series, are you speaking about?? > > > > Now on to the shops, > > > > Denny > > Janitor in Training > > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "rcjge" <jgpedwards@> wrote: > > > > > > Hey Guys: > > > > > > Was wondering if anyone was running older Olympia brass, say `60's? How > > did/do they run... likes/dislikes....? > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Gareth > > > Bradford-WG, Ont. > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > "Clear Eyes, Full Heart, Can't Lose!" > -- "Clear Eyes, Full Heart, Can't Lose!"

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17243	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 8/20/2011
Subject: Re: I didn't know about these Paul Moore's.......

Perhaps a collaboration kit between the two makers? The instructions and other original papers in the kit are definitely Paul Moore. I'll get some images and scans together in the next couple of days. One of the two instruction sheets is for a metal 'Box Cab Loco Kit', with certain sections crossed out in pencil. and a main section bracketed and marked '430'. Which is also in the labeling penciled on the end of the Paul Moore Box "UTC - 430", 4.95, COPPER SIDES. '430- class' can be found on the included Paul Moore blueprint, wrapped around the instruction sheets. Lot's of clues, but still a mystery........... It seems that all rivets, panels, and seams on the kit sides directly match your Exacta kit photo. Best to ya, Mike Bauers Milwaukee, Wi On Aug 19, 2011, at 12:14 PM, corv9 wrote: > >> >> Well it came today. It's an IRR combine. >> >> AND........ >> >> It has copper sheet/plate sides and ends with really nice embossed >> and >> punched windows, door, and has great to-scale looking rivet detail. > > Mike, > > it might be an Exacta kit in an wrong box. Have one like this, in > original Exacta box. Exacta did a Curvesider and this combine, and > maybe other Trolleys I dont know. > > my mail program doesnt work right now, and I find no way top attach > pictures to a webpost. > Hope the link will work. Its in the Photos sectuion, Gerold models. > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/album/1445113645/pic/95573361/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17244	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 8/20/2011
Subject: Re: Running Older Olympia Brass

There were plans for the Vulcan 0-4-2-T saddle tank in Model Railroader ca 1959/1960. Linn Westcott drew the plan, and put the herald of a fictional "Northwest" railroad on the side. At that time MR published a notice saying their plans were for "non commercial use only". Both Athearn and Gem, when they came out with their models, had it painted with the "Northwest" herald on the side! MR took it in stride, there was no lawsuit like there would be today, in fact they even commented about it, admitting that manufacturers used their plans all the time. It was shortly thereafter they added the note that it was permissible for manufacturers to use their plans to make their tooling, thus legalizing what had been going on all along. It was a far different world we grew up in. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "J. Gareth Edwards" <jgpedwards@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2011 8:28 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Running Older Olympia Brass Hi Deeny: I'm a member of the RE&RE group. Don't have it yet, likely get here sometime in Sept. I would think... Think of a brass version of an Athearn L`il Monster and you'll have it. I know somewhere I have a pic of the prototype, just can't remember the name of the damn picture! Grrrrrr! -Gareth

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17246	From: rcjge	Date: 8/20/2011
Subject: Re: Running Older Olympia Brass

Hi Don: I'll find the picture somewhere of the US Navy 0-4-2T "Vulcan". I know I have it.... I hope it runs better than the L`il Monster did!? -Gareth

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17247	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 8/20/2011
Subject: Re: Running Older Olympia Brass

There is a way to make the machine run very well with a simple conductive chemical treatment. I discovered this when I bought a L'il Monster that hadn't been run for about 20 years. It could almost turn the drivers about a 1/4 turn, so I knew at the least it was somewhat functional. Once I closely examined it. I loosened up all of the few screws along the electrical path which then separated a couple of chassis plates. I next used a common electrical contact fluid on those surfaces by wetting a Q-tip with it, and then wiping the related screws and plate surfaces that was the electrical path. Before I snugged home those screws, I pulled the lower chassis plate and lightly greased the axles and put a wisp of oil on the rod's rotating or bearing surfaces. Finally I just gently tightened the screws to where they should be, as well as returned the driver retaining plate. I might have wiped the driver tires with the wet Q-tip. I also put the expect light grease on the gearing, and a wisp of oil in the motor bearings. Then I put power to the beast and was amazed to see it run like a brand new Kato locomotive. From what I've seen of using the stuff since then, you only have to repeat that treatment on a once a year bench-shopping for most models. You might have to do it more often on this primitive beast. But it does do miracles with even the more crude mechanisms of our early models. Best to ya, Mike Bauers Milwaukee, Wi On Aug 20, 2011, at 10:14 PM, rcjge wrote: > Hi Don: > > I'll find the picture somewhere of the US Navy 0-4-2T "Vulcan". I > know I have it.... I hope it runs better than the L`il Monster did!? > > -Gareth

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17248	From: corv9	Date: 8/21/2011
Subject: Exacta/ Paul Moore's.......

Mike, I took a picture of the label of my box. Look forward for your scans... no idea what "430" might mean... Union Traction had a similar combine numbered "430" ??? Paul apparently colloborated with Walthers... so maybe he sold (leftover?) Exacta stuff too. more pics: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2114460/Exacta%20ITC%20%23427%20kit.JPG http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2114460/Exacta%20ITC%20%23427%20sheet.jpg Gerold

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17249	From: Jay	Date: 8/21/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Slope Back tenders

Jim H. Thank you for taking the time in checking your Varney [765] and 1984k slope back tenders for me. It is always great to be able to have the complete information that I have another pre-WW II model in my collection. Interestingly, mine came to me last year with an otherwise almost complete Mantua Goat (less motor and worm); the seller, a friendly train show vendor and aquaintence, thought it was the original Mantua Goat tender, which I knew it was not, but no argument from me as it was a great low cost deal! And also thank you for reminding me about the use of the [parenthesis] when referring to non-factory reference numbers which is a good practice to remember. W. Jay W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > > W Jay W, > > I started to check the thing you asked about concerning the three > slope back tenders Pre War lead body only, pre war cast body only and > the post war 1894K cast body with detail parts. As luck would have it I > haven't been able to locate my cast pre war body so I can only compare > the other two. > > You have good eyes because what you saw on the 1984k is right. Has > 1984 inside top of body and the word Varney running vertically on the > right side. Also the underside of the right front step when flipped over > does the word varney raised appears in very small letter all of which > are turned on their sides. I did notice the steps and step holders along > with the coupler pocket are different on the 1984k then the pre war bodies. > > > As for the pre war cast lead body only no Varney name or numbers > appears anywhere I can see inside the tender. I have a "hunch" the pre > war cast body only would be the same . > > One thing you have to remember is that when the Varney Guide was > put together there were unknown numbers for many items like pre war > steam and other pre war items. In an effort to try to give everything a > number many were created but had [ ] parenthesis around this created > number like the [ 765 ] slope back pre war tender bodies to help > distinguish these . Hope I'm explaining that properly. > > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17250	From: Jay	Date: 8/21/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology; Alco HH powering

Hi Gareth, The identification of Walther's Baltic has already been cleared up while I was away. When I write my information from catalogs or ads, I use exactly what the manufacturer's wording was, but you asked a good question and I have made a note to include supplemental information, perhaps in parenthesis to differentiate it when it might be needed for someone who does not have benefit of the original material at hand. As to powering a Walthers lead Alco High Hood switcher with an Athearn switcher drive, I did exactly that in the early 1980's after those castings re-appeard in the Walthers catalogs! After soldering the Walthers parts together (I substituted the upper 4/5 of a Cary Alco S-1 rear cab wall), I had to mill out a recess in that "lead ingot" for the Athearn chassis to nest in. Lacking any milling machine or drill press, I jury rigged some support for my Dremel moto-tool and sort of slid the casting on a board along side, making one light cut at a time. Definitely not good shop practice and SAFETY GOGGLES WERE AND ARE A MUST! But it came out well, notches for the draft gear had to be enlarged as well. Since I used the earlier Athearn outside bearing truck frame version, I used the Trackside Industries white metal Blundt sideframes with the bronze bearings. Another manufacturer has the proper plastic Blundt sideframes for the later version, inside bearing Athearn trucks. I also added the Earnst slow speed gears and even later added the NWSL nickel silver wheelsets Snice I ordered two kits, one to model the DL&W's square, flat fron version and one to model the Erie's later rounded hood units, I rounded my assembled model's corners to resemble the later Erie unit. I also cut a piece of thin brass for a roof overlay (for the eaves effect) and bought Cary S-1 handrail supports for it as well. I was not "vintage modeling" back then, just wanted to build a scale model of the prototype. One problem with the heavy body and my repeated dissassembly and reassembly of the trucks was that I eneded up with body lean. This problem is perhaps made more eveident becasue if the substantial body weight vs. the Athearn plastic shells. A MR Clinic" item, p.102 in the August, 1976 Model Railroader provided me with the answer: "If the locomotive rocks easily, the problem is the flash on the parting line on the underside of the frame. File this smooth. If the locomotive just leans one way...the problem is the sheet metal piece used for the truck bolster. It has either been bent down too far, or has not been bent enough. Remove the worm cover and check the alignment. Bend the part until the top surface is horizontal - G.O." [Gordon Odegard) Unlike the early cast bronze Walthers HH model, there still sees to be enoght of these cast lead models to be able to have fun building and modifying. I never did asemble my second kit, though and am keeping it that way as have since found a boxed late 1940's factory assembled unit. Another, more vintage powering unit to try would be one from a Varney NW-2 switcher, as one of the older units I once had was powered that way, decades ago. An easier modification as it simply involves notching the frame for the Varney power truck's bolster. Hope this helps. W. Jay W. W. Jay W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "rcjge" <jgpedwards@...> wrote: > > Jay: > > two things; > > 1) the Baltic, is it a 4-6-4 "Suburban" Baltic? As in CNJ/CNR? > > 2) Interested in the HH stuff. I have a real nice Walther's HH body, cast but not the Bronze. I found an old article on how to make an NH HH unit powered by the Athearn SW chassis, which has to be better than the original Walthers power trucks? Trying to decide which HH to depict and thereby decide whether to round the hood edges, front/sides and/or top. > > Cheers, > Gareth > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jay Wanczyk <the_plainsman@> wrote: > > > > To Richard, Don and Glenn and All! Jim H. see the last sentence!) > >   > > Richard, thanks for the compliment for my efforts to date.  We still have many blanks to fill, but I believe this to be a good beginning and framework to build upon.  > >   > > Next, besides finding a copy or photocpy of the 1937 Walthers HO catalog (and possibly a pre-Walthers Frank Taylor catalog, will be to review the Walthers Model railroader ads, as they often provide additional information.  I am virtually complete the years from 1937 on, but am missing 1938, 1940 and 1941, so may start looking again to find them reasoably or wait until the DVD is out. > >   > > Another step is to review Walthers newsletters, first called Crestline News, later called The Blazer.  Only have two from 1938 and one or two of the latter circa 1950, so that will be catch as catch can. > >   > > The big step, but doable with catalogs and ads will be listing the catalog numbers and type cars that were offered each year, as there were constant revisions and special issues as well, even into the last few years. One big help in crosschecking will be the list posted in our group files listing the Walthers kits. > >   > > Don, One way we might be able to trace the period of use of the Crestline "brand" besides ads (the catalogs I have 1938-1950, excepting 1943, 1944 do not mention Crestline) is through examinination and documentation of existing kits we have, dating them by catalog number and those neat packing slips. > >   > > A few years ago, it was my uneducated assumption, at least early on, that Crestline was the name Walthers used on some of his O Scale kits, but proved my assumption wrong, as some of my yellow box Walthers passenger (and freight!) car kits have come in original Walthers Crestline boxes. Attached is a photo of a 6 volt "Crestline HO Motor Unit" which I found hidden on eBay a few years ago. > >   > >   > > Glen, One cool thing about Walthers is that they consistanly documnetd their line in several ways, and that book you mentioned likely will help.  Walthers published a similar, no doubt smaller Guide to HO Passenger cars in 1943 as well, which I found in a gass electric kit box along with the supplemental gas electric plans and regular passenger car instructions.  (only 13 different cars are shown in that 1943 guide edition, down from the number shown in the 1942 catalog.) > >    > > All:  It's funny how I arrived at doing Walthers Passenger car research as I began by documenting the production of my favorite Bronze Walthers Alco High Hood switcher and the CNW Gas Electric. To understand and date those models year by year, it was necessary to document the production of the Walthers 6 and 12 volt power trucks, gear ratios, etc and also figure out what the story was about "those passenger cars." > >   > > The very detailed article on the Alco HH switchers, the bronze model as well as the different cast version, the Gas Electric and Walthers Power trucks will be done hopefully by fall.  The resarch is fun for me, if time consuming and one never knows where one will end up!  What usually happens is that the more I know about a particular model, I end up wanting to add it to the collection! > >   > > Jim H, While knee deep in ancient Walthers catalogs, I am also copying down information on the development and changes to the Walthers Baltic locomotive and will try to wrap up what I have found to date and see if i can get it posted here in the next few days. > >   > > Think a ball game is on now, have to go and sit down and take a break, LOL! > >   > > W. Jay W. > >    > > > >   > > > > From: Richard White <toytrain13@> > > To: Jim Heckard <vintageho@yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2011 5:32 PM > > Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology > > > > > >   > > Jay- Terrific! I've recently begun constructing what you label Phase IV and V cars. Your detailed chronology makes the history of these kits a lot chearer. Thanks- Richard White  > >   > > > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > From: the_plainsman@ > > Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 19:34:40 +0000 > > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology > > > >   > > Correction!  In paragraph 14 exchange  the last sentence, "I have nominally labeled thesefirst embossed tinplate sided cars(without embossed rivets) "Phase III cars."  > > with "I have nominally labeled these second generation tinplate sided carsWITH embossed rivets, "Phase III Cars". > > Sorry, no matter how many time one proofreads, there is always an error that rears its ugly head after "send' is clicked. The summary at the end is OK   Jay  > >   > >   > >   > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Jay" <the_plainsman@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Walthers Heavyweight Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology > > > > > > A few days ago I offered an off-the-cuff 45+ year chronology of the > > > Walthers Passenger car line without having my data at hand, so I went to > > > the notes and history I have drafted along with my mostly complete > > > library of Walthers catalogs from 1938-1950 and some from 1960 and later > > > and offer this brief chronology. (A summary appears at the end.) > > > > > > Wm. "Bill" Walthers always had a knack for spotting good smaller > > > manufacturers, buying them out and making improvements to those products > > > as part of his line. He began by purchasing Frank Taylor's > > > "Taylor-Made" HO line consisting of the Milwaukee Baltic locomotive and > > > a number of passenger and freight cars and Frank Taylor became an > > > employee for a time before becoming the editor of Model Railroader > > > magazine. > > > > > > Walthers 1938 HO Catalog, the earliest I have, describes the new > > > Walthers passenger car line as follows: > > > > > > "TAYLOR-MADE passenger cars are accurate to scale and the most realistic > > > HO models on the market. Car sides and sash are now made of Armite which > > > is tough and durable. Window and door openings are punched out clean, > > > belt rail and doors are depressed. Roof, floor and ends are made of > > > wood, milled to size. Diaphragms are made of folded paper with metal > > > rubbing plate. Details include: roof and underbelly details, diecast > > > steps, couplers, triple valve, generator and air brake cylinder. All > > > trucks come assembled. Paint, transfersand drawings included." > > > > > > Interesting to note the phrasing that "Car sides and sash are now made > > > of Armite;" does this mean that they were originally made of perhaps > > > plain card sides like the freight cars during Taylor's production or > > > possibly even the first year of Walthers production? > > > > > > In 1938 Walthers cataloged passenger cars in the 5600 series, with 13 > > > different types and 8 additional paint/decal variations, for a total of > > > 21 different kits. The CNW gas electric was also listed in the 5600 > > > series and it may be logically assumed for the present that it also had > > > Armite sides as the listing states, "Plan of construction and design of > > > parts is the same as for our passenger cars." For reason that will be > > > clear later, I have nominally labeled these "Armite" sided passenger > > > cars with wood ends, "Phase 1 cars." > > > > > > In his 1939 HO catalog (#3), Walthers dropped the references to the > > > "Taylor-Made" line and opened the passenger car page with this modified > > > quote, " Without a .doubt, the Walthers' line of HO passenger car > > > models are the most realistic miniature cars ever offered." The > > > description of materials is the same as the precious year, however, and > > > this also includes the gas electric. > > > > > > The 1940 Walthers HO Catalog announced the first major change in > > > passenger car construction with the introduction of embossed tinplate > > > sides and cast metal ends. > > > > > > Walthers states, "For some time we have been working on a redesigned HO > > > passenger car to get away from the use of armite sides and give the HO > > > cars some of the outstanding features of our O gauge line." He continued > > > below, "The features of these new cars include: highly detailed die cast > > > ends with lugs for attaching the roof and the floor, pressed metal sides > > > with panel doors and windows and embossed letterboard and belt rail. The > > > sides are channeled so they may be attached to the underside of the > > > floor and roof..." > > > > > > Eleven different types of cars were listed, now numbered in the 6600 > > > series. I have nominally labeled these first embossed tinplate sided > > > cars (without embossed rivets) "Phase II cars." > > > > > > In 1940, the CNW gas electric was still listed in the 5600 series but > > > the description was unchanged from previous years, "Plan of construction > > > and design of parts is the same as for our passenger cars." For now, it > > > will be difficult to conclusively say when the change from Armite to > > > tinplate side occurred, (Phase I to Phase II) but it might have been > > > concurrent with the regular passenger car change. > > > > > > The construction of 6600 series of Walthers passenger cars essentially > > > continued virtually unchanged from the 1940 catalog through the 1949 > > > catalog, though in that year there were now 21 different types. However, > > > in 1942 first mention was made that "Rivet effect is obtained by > > > applying paper overlay with scale embossed paper rivets." I suppose > > > that Walthers was feeling the heat from his competItors like Varney, > > > whose heavyweights featured finely embossed rivets on their sides. . > > > > > > Though it was sold with Phase II construction, namely cars now having > > > embossed tinplate sides, but without rivets similar to the 6600 > > > passenger cars, the CNW Gas Electric was still inexplicably numbered in > > > the 5600 series! > > > > > > 1950 saw the next major change in Walthers passenger car construction - > > > rivets! In the introduction to the Passenger car section, Walthers > > > states, " The new 7600 series of HO passenger cars (and the 7500 series > > > traction kits) are marvels for detail..." The caption next to an > > > enlarged photo of a portion of a car side notes the embossed rivets. The > > > top and bottom of the side was still "folded" to permit easy mounting to > > > floor and roof. Twenty-eight different car types and roof configurations > > > were cataloged. I have nominally labeled these first embossed tinplate > > > sided cars (without embossed rivets) "Phase III cars." > > > > > > In 1950, the CNW gas electric numbering was changed to the 6450 series > > > with a new matching trailer listed in the 7600 series. This is likely > > > when the riveted sided appeared, matching the changes in the regular > > > passenger line. > > > > > > The Walthers line continued through the 1950's without much change > > > to the passenger car line construction, with the notable exception of > > > the special "Pug" Passenger cars and the Shuttle Jack. However, new > > > window configurations were introduced in the regular passenger car line > > > based upon various prototypes. > > > > > > The 1960 Walthers HO catalog heralded the next major change in standard > > > passenger car construction which affected both the car sides and roof > > > profile and a introduced a new number series, the 7800's. First, the > > > sides had a "New straight design (not folded under at bottom) makes it > > > easy to detail the underbelly." "Goo" was promoted for assembly. > > > > > > The roof cross section was substantially changed as well, considerably > > > higher , quote, "to match the old J-C cars and present day models..." > > > The new roof part number was M381 while the old, lower profile, M-133 > > > was still available separately for those who wanted to match their older > > > Walthers cars. I have read somewhere that the original Walthers, AKA > > > Taylor-Made passenger cars were scaled 1/8" to the foot and not 3.5 mm. > > > Would that account for the fact that the Walthers roofs were always a > > > bit low in comparison to other scale dimentioned HO passenger cars? > > > > > > I have nominally labeled these "Phase IV cars." > > > > > > The early 1960's also saw many additional types of passenger cars, > > > such as the Favorite Prototype series, but construction technique and > > > material reflected that of the standard (not Pug) line, though in some > > > cases, special car ends (horse car) were made.. > > > > > > The last notable change to the standard line of Walthers passenger cars > > > occurred in the 1970's(?) When molded plastic roof sections were > > > made available. I would label them Phase V cars. > > > > > > While not a complete Walther's passenger car history, this > > > information, along with Don's detailed description of Walthers kit box > > > designs, will allow one to make a good estimate of when a particular kit > > > or model was manufactured over their 45+ year run. > > > > > > Summary - Walthers Passenger Car Construction (by catalog date) > > > > > > 1937(?)-1939; Armite (card or fibre) sides, wood roof floor and ends; > > > 5600 series, (Phase I) > > > > > > 1940-1949; Tinplated steel sides with top and bottom fold; no rivets or > > > with paper rivet strips; cast white metal ends; 6600 series, (Phase II) > > > > > > 1950-1959; Tinplated steel sides with top and bottom fold; with embossed > > > rivets; cast white metal ends, wood roof and floor; 7600 series, (Phase > > > III) > > > > > > 1960-?: Tinplated steel sides without bottom fold; with embossed rivets; > > > cast white metal ends, new high profile wood roof, floor; 7800 series, > > > (Phase IV) > > > > > > 1970's(?)-end: Tinplated steel sides without bottom fold; embossed > > > rivets; cast white metal ends, plastic roof, wood floor; 7800 series, > > > (Phase V) > > > > > > Please recognize that this information is not complete or final and > > > subject to revision as more information becomes available (or I am > > > corrected, lol!) . Walthers name (C) copyright Walthers. The > > > presentation of factual information, personal descriptions and > > > conclusions are (C) 2011 W. Jay Wanczyk. > > > > > > Whew! > > > > > > W. Jay W. > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17251	From: Jay	Date: 8/21/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Passenger Car Discussion - Sperry Car & Walthers Awards

Hi Glenn, Thanks for the information on the Walthers/Terminal Hobby Shop Sperry Detector car parts. I will see if any mention of it was in either MR or RMC. I certainly will have my radar on to see if I can find a set or assembled model and will make note of it in the final article. Also for the information on the Walthers Awards. Was it only for models using Walther's parts, or for any passenger car models. Do you have photos of your award winning models in your album here? W. Jay W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Glenn" <glenn476@...> wrote: > > One car that might not be in the catalogsâ€"in the early sixties Walthers “Terminal Hobby Shop” listed a set of sides, ends, and doors for a Sperry Detector Car in O and HO. I built the O Scale version. It got away from me in the early 70’s. I also built several O scale cars, and the ATSF Division Superintendent’s car, in HO, modeling one that was here on the YW. > > gj > > From: Jay Wanczyk > Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2011 6:20 PM > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology [1 Attachment] > > [Attachment(s) from Jay Wanczyk included below] > > > To Richard, Don and Glenn and All! Jim H. see the last sentence!) > > Richard, thanks for the compliment for my efforts to date. We still have many blanks to fill, but I believe this to be a good beginning and framework to build upon. > > Next, besides finding a copy or photocpy of the 1937 Walthers HO catalog (and possibly a pre-Walthers Frank Taylor catalog, will be to review the Walthers Model railroader ads, as they often provide additional information. I am virtually complete the years from 1937 on, but am missing 1938, 1940 and 1941, so may start looking again to find them reasoably or wait until the DVD is out. > > Another step is to review Walthers newsletters, first called Crestline News, later called The Blazer. Only have two from 1938 and one or two of the latter circa 1950, so that will be catch as catch can. > > The big step, but doable with catalogs and ads will be listing the catalog numbers and type cars that were offered each year, as there were constant revisions and special issues as well, even into the last few years. One big help in crosschecking will be the list posted in our group files listing the Walthers kits. > > Don, One way we might be able to trace the period of use of the Crestline "brand" besides ads (the catalogs I have 1938-1950, excepting 1943, 1944 do not mention Crestline) is through examinination and documentation of existing kits we have, dating them by catalog number and those neat packing slips. > > A few years ago, it was my uneducated assumption, at least early on, that Crestline was the name Walthers used on some of his O Scale kits, but proved my assumption wrong, as some of my yellow box Walthers passenger (and freight!) car kits have come in original Walthers Crestline boxes. Attached is a photo of a 6 volt "Crestline HO Motor Unit" which I found hidden on eBay a few years ago. > > > Glen, One cool thing about Walthers is that they consistanly documnetd their line in several ways, and that book you mentioned likely will help. Walthers published a similar, no doubt smaller Guide to HO Passenger cars in 1943 as well, which I found in a gass electric kit box along with the supplemental gas electric plans and regular passenger car instructions. (only 13 different cars are shown in that 1943 guide edition, down from the number shown in the 1942 catalog.) > > All: It's funny how I arrived at doing Walthers Passenger car research as I began by documenting the production of my favorite Bronze Walthers Alco High Hood switcher and the CNW Gas Electric. To understand and date those models year by year, it was necessary to document the production of the Walthers 6 and 12 volt power trucks, gear ratios, etc and also figure out what the story was about "those passenger cars." > > The very detailed article on the Alco HH switchers, the bronze model as well as the different cast version, the Gas Electric and Walthers Power trucks will be done hopefully by fall. The resarch is fun for me, if time consuming and one never knows where one will end up! What usually happens is that the more I know about a particular model, I end up wanting to add it to the collection! > > Jim H, While knee deep in ancient Walthers catalogs, I am also copying down information on the development and changes to the Walthers Baltic locomotive and will try to wrap up what I have found to date and see if i can get it posted here in the next few days. > > Think a ball game is on now, have to go and sit down and take a break, LOL! > > W. Jay W. > > > > > From: Richard White <toytrain13@...> > To: Jim Heckard <vintageho@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2011 5:32 PM > Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology > > > > Jay- Terrific! I've recently begun constructing what you label Phase IV and V cars. Your detailed chronology makes the history of these kits a lot chearer. Thanks- Richard White > > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > From: the_plainsman@... > Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 19:34:40 +0000 > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology > > > Correction! In paragraph 14 exchange the last sentence, "I have nominally labeled thesefirst embossed tinplate sided cars (without embossed rivets) "Phase III cars." > with "I have nominally labeled these second generation tinplate sided cars WITH embossed rivets, "Phase III Cars". > Sorry, no matter how many time one proofreads, there is always an error that rears its ugly head after "send' is clicked. The summary at the end is OK Jay > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Jay" <the_plainsman@> wrote: > > > > > > Walthers Heavyweight Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology > > > > A few days ago I offered an off-the-cuff 45+ year chronology of the > > Walthers Passenger car line without having my data at hand, so I went to > > the notes and history I have drafted along with my mostly complete > > library of Walthers catalogs from 1938-1950 and some from 1960 and later > > and offer this brief chronology. (A summary appears at the end.) > > > > Wm. "Bill" Walthers always had a knack for spotting good smaller > > manufacturers, buying them out and making improvements to those products > > as part of his line. He began by purchasing Frank Taylor's > > "Taylor-Made" HO line consisting of the Milwaukee Baltic locomotive and > > a number of passenger and freight cars and Frank Taylor became an > > employee for a time before becoming the editor of Model Railroader > > magazine. > > > > Walthers 1938 HO Catalog, the earliest I have, describes the new > > Walthers passenger car line as follows: > > > > "TAYLOR-MADE passenger cars are accurate to scale and the most realistic > > HO models on the market. Car sides and sash are now made of Armite which > > is tough and durable. Window and door openings are punched out clean, > > belt rail and doors are depressed. Roof, floor and ends are made of > > wood, milled to size. Diaphragms are made of folded paper with metal > > rubbing plate. Details include: roof and underbelly details, diecast > > steps, couplers, triple valve, generator and air brake cylinder. All > > trucks come assembled. Paint, transfersand drawings included." > > > > Interesting to note the phrasing that "Car sides and sash are now made > > of Armite;" does this mean that they were originally made of perhaps > > plain card sides like the freight cars during Taylor's production or > > possibly even the first year of Walthers production? > > > > In 1938 Walthers cataloged passenger cars in the 5600 series, with 13 > > different types and 8 additional paint/decal variations, for a total of > > 21 different kits. The CNW gas electric was also listed in the 5600 > > series and it may be logically assumed for the present that it also had > > Armite sides as the listing states, "Plan of construction and design of > > parts is the same as for our passenger cars." For reason that will be > > clear later, I have nominally labeled these "Armite" sided passenger > > cars with wood ends, "Phase 1 cars." > > > > In his 1939 HO catalog (#3), Walthers dropped the references to the > > "Taylor-Made" line and opened the passenger car page with this modified > > quote, " Without a .doubt, the Walthers' line of HO passenger car > > models are the most realistic miniature cars ever offered." The > > description of materials is the same as the precious year, however, and > > this also includes the gas electric. > > > > The 1940 Walthers HO Catalog announced the first major change in > > passenger car construction with the introduction of embossed tinplate > > sides and cast metal ends. > > > > Walthers states, "For some time we have been working on a redesigned HO > > passenger car to get away from the use of armite sides and give the HO > > cars some of the outstanding features of our O gauge line." He continued > > below, "The features of these new cars include: highly detailed die cast > > ends with lugs for attaching the roof and the floor, pressed metal sides > > with panel doors and windows and embossed letterboard and belt rail. The > > sides are channeled so they may be attached to the underside of the > > floor and roof..." > > > > Eleven different types of cars were listed, now numbered in the 6600 > > series. I have nominally labeled these first embossed tinplate sided > > cars (without embossed rivets) "Phase II cars." > > > > In 1940, the CNW gas electric was still listed in the 5600 series but > > the description was unchanged from previous years, "Plan of construction > > and design of parts is the same as for our passenger cars." For now, it > > will be difficult to conclusively say when the change from Armite to > > tinplate side occurred, (Phase I to Phase II) but it might have been > > concurrent with the regular passenger car change. > > > > The construction of 6600 series of Walthers passenger cars essentially > > continued virtually unchanged from the 1940 catalog through the 1949 > > catalog, though in that year there were now 21 different types. However, > > in 1942 first mention was made that "Rivet effect is obtained by > > applying paper overlay with scale embossed paper rivets." I suppose > > that Walthers was feeling the heat from his competItors like Varney, > > whose heavyweights featured finely embossed rivets on their sides. . > > > > Though it was sold with Phase II construction, namely cars now having > > embossed tinplate sides, but without rivets similar to the 6600 > > passenger cars, the CNW Gas Electric was still inexplicably numbered in > > the 5600 series! > > > > 1950 saw the next major change in Walthers passenger car construction - > > rivets! In the introduction to the Passenger car section, Walthers > > states, " The new 7600 series of HO passenger cars (and the 7500 series > > traction kits) are marvels for detail..." The caption next to an > > enlarged photo of a portion of a car side notes the embossed rivets. The > > top and bottom of the side was still "folded" to permit easy mounting to > > floor and roof. Twenty-eight different car types and roof configurations > > were cataloged. I have nominally labeled these first embossed tinplate > > sided cars (without embossed rivets) "Phase III cars." > > > > In 1950, the CNW gas electric numbering was changed to the 6450 series > > with a new matching trailer listed in the 7600 series. This is likely > > when the riveted sided appeared, matching the changes in the regular > > passenger line. > > > > The Walthers line continued through the 1950's without much change > > to the passenger car line construction, with the notable exception of > > the special "Pug" Passenger cars and the Shuttle Jack. However, new > > window configurations were introduced in the regular passenger car line > > based upon various prototypes. > > > > The 1960 Walthers HO catalog heralded the next major change in standard > > passenger car construction which affected both the car sides and roof > > profile and a introduced a new number series, the 7800's. First, the > > sides had a "New straight design (not folded under at bottom) makes it > > easy to detail the underbelly." "Goo" was promoted for assembly. > > > > The roof cross section was substantially changed as well, considerably > > higher , quote, "to match the old J-C cars and present day models..." > > The new roof part number was M381 while the old, lower profile, M-133 > > was still available separately for those who wanted to match their older > > Walthers cars. I have read somewhere that the original Walthers, AKA > > Taylor-Made passenger cars were scaled 1/8" to the foot and not 3.5 mm. > > Would that account for the fact that the Walthers roofs were always a > > bit low in comparison to other scale dimentioned HO passenger cars? > > > > I have nominally labeled these "Phase IV cars." > > > > The early 1960's also saw many additional types of passenger cars, > > such as the Favorite Prototype series, but construction technique and > > material reflected that of the standard (not Pug) line, though in some > > cases, special car ends (horse car) were made.. > > > > The last notable change to the standard line of Walthers passenger cars > > occurred in the 1970's(?) When molded plastic roof sections were > > made available. I would label them Phase V cars. > > > > While not a complete Walther's passenger car history, this > > information, along with Don's detailed description of Walthers kit box > > designs, will allow one to make a good estimate of when a particular kit > > or model was manufactured over their 45+ year run. > > > > Summary - Walthers Passenger Car Construction (by catalog date) > > > > 1937(?)-1939; Armite (card or fibre) sides, wood roof floor and ends; > > 5600 series, (Phase I) > > > > 1940-1949; Tinplated steel sides with top and bottom fold; no rivets or > > with paper rivet strips; cast white metal ends; 6600 series, (Phase II) > > > > 1950-1959; Tinplated steel sides with top and bottom fold; with embossed > > rivets; cast white metal ends, wood roof and floor; 7600 series, (Phase > > III) > > > > 1960-?: Tinplated steel sides without bottom fold; with embossed rivets; > > cast white metal ends, new high profile wood roof, floor; 7800 series, > > (Phase IV) > > > > 1970's(?)-end: Tinplated steel sides without bottom fold; embossed > > rivets; cast white metal ends, plastic roof, wood floor; 7800 series, > > (Phase V) > > > > Please recognize that this information is not complete or final and > > subject to revision as more information becomes available (or I am > > corrected, lol!) . Walthers name (C) copyright Walthers. The > > presentation of factual information, personal descriptions and > > conclusions are (C) 2011 W. Jay Wanczyk. > > > > Whew! > > > > W. Jay W. > > > > > > > > > > > > Attachment(s) from Jay Wanczyk > > 1 of 1 Photo(s) > > Crestline HO Motor Unit.jpg >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17252	From: Jay	Date: 8/21/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology

Hi Denny, CW Shops, Thank you for your kind offer to scan the 1940-1941 MR's for the walthers project. While there are no Trade Topics reviews listed for Walthers HO models for those years, Walther's monthly ads may give information that supplements his catalogs. Since I do have 1942 and 1943, I did check those two years and did find a special World War II "Troop Car" Walthers advertised, which they were selling in both HO and O scales, (January 1943, p. 45). Not a new model, just new decals with the lettering United States Troop Train" sold only with a "16 Section Pullman Tourist Sleeper kit" Finding one of those kits or assembled models with the special lettering would be a great addition to anyone's roster! Thanks again for your efforts. W. Jay W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "cwrailman" <cwrailman@...> wrote: > > Jay, > > I have hard bound copies of the MR 1940-1943 so if you tell me what you are looking for I can check them out. > > Don, I also have that Walthers passenger car catalog you mentioned, published date unknown as well as a copy of the Terminal Hobby Shop catalog from sometime in the mid to late 1970's. > > Denny, > Janitor in Training > CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jay Wanczyk <the_plainsman@> wrote: > > > > Next, besides finding a copy or photocpy of the 1937 Walthers HO catalog (and possibly a pre-Walthers Frank Taylor catalog, will be to review the Walthers Model railroader ads, as they often provide additional information.  I am virtually complete the years from 1937 on, but am missing 1938, 1940 and 1941, so may start looking again to find them reasoably or wait until the DVD is out. > >   > > W. Jay W. > >    > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17253	From: Jay	Date: 8/21/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology [1 Attachment]

Hi Chuck H., Will keep a record by year and incorporate it into my report and cross check with the list, as the list as it stands is also a check list for me as well. Once the information is as complete as I can document, will get the information to you so you can determine what can be added. As I see it, my report will be the narative history of the Walthers HO Passenger Car Line and the list here as the ultimate checklist for modelers and collectors to refer to. Thanks for your offer (and for keeping all of those lists up to date!) W. Jay W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Chuck Higdon" <vze5crrw1@...> wrote: > > As the poster of that list, if I can add some from -to columns to the list > let me know the dates. I will then add them. The list was complied from > the revised second edition of the Walthers passenger car plans book > copyrighted 1973. > > Take care, > > > > Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at > http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104 > > > > _____ > > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf > Of Jay Wanczyk > Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2011 9:20 PM > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology > [1 Attachment] > > > > > > [Attachment(s) from Jay Wanczyk included below] > > To Richard, Don and Glenn and All! Jim H. see the last sentence!) > > > > Richard, thanks for the compliment for my efforts to date. We still have > many blanks to fill, but I believe this to be a good beginning and framework > to build upon. > > > > Next, besides finding a copy or photocpy of the 1937 Walthers HO catalog > (and possibly a pre-Walthers Frank Taylor catalog, will be to review the > Walthers Model railroader ads, as they often provide additional information. > I am virtually complete the years from 1937 on, but am missing 1938, 1940 > and 1941, so may start looking again to find them reasoably or wait until > the DVD is out. > > > > Another step is to review Walthers newsletters, first called Crestline News, > later called The Blazer. Only have two from 1938 and one or two of the > latter circa 1950, so that will be catch as catch can. > > > > The big step, but doable with catalogs and ads will be listing the catalog > numbers and type cars that were offered each year, as there were constant > revisions and special issues as well, even into the last few years. One big > help in crosschecking will be the list posted in our group files listing the > Walthers kits. > > > > Don, One way we might be able to trace the period of use of the Crestline > "brand" besides ads (the catalogs I have 1938-1950, excepting 1943, 1944 do > not mention Crestline) is through examinination and documentation of > existing kits we have, dating them by catalog number and those neat packing > slips. > > > > A few years ago, it was my uneducated assumption, at least early on, that > Crestline was the name Walthers used on some of his O Scale kits, but proved > my assumption wrong, as some of my yellow box Walthers passenger (and > freight!) car kits have come in original Walthers Crestline boxes. Attached > is a photo of a 6 volt "Crestline HO Motor Unit" which I found hidden on > eBay a few years ago. > > > > > > Glen, One cool thing about Walthers is that they consistanly documnetd their > line in several ways, and that book you mentioned likely will help. > Walthers published a similar, no doubt smaller Guide to HO Passenger cars in > 1943 as well, which I found in a gass electric kit box along with the > supplemental gas electric plans and regular passenger car instructions. > (only 13 different cars are shown in that 1943 guide edition, down from the > number shown in the 1942 catalog.) > > > > All: It's funny how I arrived at doing Walthers Passenger car research as I > began by documenting the production of my favorite Bronze Walthers Alco High > Hood switcher and the CNW Gas Electric. To understand and date those models > year by year, it was necessary to document the production of the Walthers 6 > and 12 volt power trucks, gear ratios, etc and also figure out what the > story was about "those passenger cars." > > > > The very detailed article on the Alco HH switchers, the bronze model as well > as the different cast version, the Gas Electric and Walthers Power trucks > will be done hopefully by fall. The resarch is fun for me, if time > consuming and one never knows where one will end up! What usually happens > is that the more I know about a particular model, I end up wanting to add it > to the collection! > > > > Jim H, While knee deep in ancient Walthers catalogs, I am also copying down > information on the development and changes to the Walthers Baltic locomotive > and will try to wrap up what I have found to date and see if i can get it > posted here in the next few days. > > > > Think a ball game is on now, have to go and sit down and take a break, LOL! > > > > W. Jay W. > > > > > > > > From: Richard White <toytrain13@...> > To: Jim Heckard <vintageho@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2011 5:32 PM > Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology > > > > Jay- Terrific! I've recently begun constructing what you label Phase IV and > V cars. Your detailed chronology makes the history of these kits a lot > chearer. Thanks- Richard White > > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > From: the_plainsman@... > Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 19:34:40 +0000 > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology > > > > Correction! In paragraph 14 exchange the last sentence, "I have nominally > labeled thesefirst embossed tinplate sided cars (without embossed rivets) > "Phase III cars." > with "I have nominally labeled these second generation tinplate sided cars > WITH embossed rivets, "Phase III Cars". > Sorry, no matter how many time one proofreads, there is always an error that > rears its ugly head after "send' is clicked. The summary at the end is OK > Jay > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Jay" <the_plainsman@> wrote: > > > > > > Walthers Heavyweight Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology > > > > A few days ago I offered an off-the-cuff 45+ year chronology of the > > Walthers Passenger car line without having my data at hand, so I went to > > the notes and history I have drafted along with my mostly complete > > library of Walthers catalogs from 1938-1950 and some from 1960 and later > > and offer this brief chronology. (A summary appears at the end.) > > > > Wm. "Bill" Walthers always had a knack for spotting good smaller > > manufacturers, buying them out and making improvements to those products > > as part of his line. He began by purchasing Frank Taylor's > > "Taylor-Made" HO line consisting of the Milwaukee Baltic locomotive and > > a number of passenger and freight cars and Frank Taylor became an > > employee for a time before becoming the editor of Model Railroader > > magazine. > > > > Walthers 1938 HO Catalog, the earliest I have, describes the new > > Walthers passenger car line as follows: > > > > "TAYLOR-MADE passenger cars are accurate to scale and the most realistic > > HO models on the market. Car sides and sash are now made of Armite which > > is tough and durable. Window and door openings are punched out clean, > > belt rail and doors are depressed. Roof, floor and ends are made of > > wood, milled to size. Diaphragms are made of folded paper with metal > > rubbing plate. Details include: roof and underbelly details, diecast > > steps, couplers, triple valve, generator and air brake cylinder. All > > trucks come assembled. Paint, transfersand drawings included." > > > > Interesting to note the phrasing that "Car sides and sash are now made > > of Armite;" does this mean that they were originally made of perhaps > > plain card sides like the freight cars during Taylor's production or > > possibly even the first year of Walthers production? > > > > In 1938 Walthers cataloged passenger cars in the 5600 series, with 13 > > different types and 8 additional paint/decal variations, for a total of > > 21 different kits. The CNW gas electric was also listed in the 5600 > > series and it may be logically assumed for the present that it also had > > Armite sides as the listing states, "Plan of construction and design of > > parts is the same as for our passenger cars." For reason that will be > > clear later, I have nominally labeled these "Armite" sided passenger > > cars with wood ends, "Phase 1 cars." > > > > In his 1939 HO catalog (#3), Walthers dropped the references to the > > "Taylor-Made" line and opened the passenger car page with this modified > > quote, " Without a .doubt, the Walthers' line of HO passenger car > > models are the most realistic miniature cars ever offered." The > > description of materials is the same as the precious year, however, and > > this also includes the gas electric. > > > > The 1940 Walthers HO Catalog announced the first major change in > > passenger car construction with the introduction of embossed tinplate > > sides and cast metal ends. > > > > Walthers states, "For some time we have been working on a redesigned HO > > passenger car to get away from the use of armite sides and give the HO > > cars some of the outstanding features of our O gauge line." He continued > > below, "The features of these new cars include: highly detailed die cast > > ends with lugs for attaching the roof and the floor, pressed metal sides > > with panel doors and windows and embossed letterboard and belt rail. The > > sides are channeled so they may be attached to the underside of the > > floor and roof..." > > > > Eleven different types of cars were listed, now numbered in the 6600 > > series. I have nominally labeled these first embossed tinplate sided > > cars (without embossed rivets) "Phase II cars." > > > > In 1940, the CNW gas electric was still listed in the 5600 series but > > the description was unchanged from previous years, "Plan of construction > > and design of parts is the same as for our passenger cars." For now, it > > will be difficult to conclusively say when the change from Armite to > > tinplate side occurred, (Phase I to Phase II) but it might have been > > concurrent with the regular passenger car change. > > > > The construction of 6600 series of Walthers passenger cars essentially > > continued virtually unchanged from the 1940 catalog through the 1949 > > catalog, though in that year there were now 21 different types. However, > > in 1942 first mention was made that "Rivet effect is obtained by > > applying paper overlay with scale embossed paper rivets." I suppose > > that Walthers was feeling the heat from his competItors like Varney, > > whose heavyweights featured finely embossed rivets on their sides. . > > > > Though it was sold with Phase II construction, namely cars now having > > embossed tinplate sides, but without rivets similar to the 6600 > > passenger cars, the CNW Gas Electric was still inexplicably numbered in > > the 5600 series! > > > > 1950 saw the next major change in Walthers passenger car construction - > > rivets! In the introduction to the Passenger car section, Walthers > > states, " The new 7600 series of HO passenger cars (and the 7500 series > > traction kits) are marvels for detail..." The caption next to an > > enlarged photo of a portion of a car side notes the embossed rivets. The > > top and bottom of the side was still "folded" to permit easy mounting to > > floor and roof. Twenty-eight different car types and roof configurations > > were cataloged. I have nominally labeled these first embossed tinplate > > sided cars (without embossed rivets) "Phase III cars." > > > > In 1950, the CNW gas electric numbering was changed to the 6450 series > > with a new matching trailer listed in the 7600 series. This is likely > > when the riveted sided appeared, matching the changes in the regular > > passenger line. > > > > The Walthers line continued through the 1950's without much change > > to the passenger car line construction, with the notable exception of > > the special "Pug" Passenger cars and the Shuttle Jack. However, new > > window configurations were introduced in the regular passenger car line > > based upon various prototypes. > > > > The 1960 Walthers HO catalog heralded the next major change in standard > > passenger car construction which affected both the car sides and roof > > profile and a introduced a new number series, the 7800's. First, the > > sides had a "New straight design (not folded under at bottom) makes it > > easy to detail the underbelly." "Goo" was promoted for assembly. > > > > The roof cross section was substantially changed as well, considerably > > higher , quote, "to match the old J-C cars and present day models..." > > The new roof part number was M381 while the old, lower profile, M-133 > > was still available separately for those who wanted to match their older > > Walthers cars. I have read somewhere that the original Walthers, AKA > > Taylor-Made passenger cars were scaled 1/8" to the foot and not 3.5 mm. > > Would that account for the fact that the Walthers roofs were always a > > bit low in comparison to other scale dimentioned HO passenger cars? > > > > I have nominally labeled these "Phase IV cars." > > > > The early 1960's also saw many additional types of passenger cars, > > such as the Favorite Prototype series, but construction technique and > > material reflected that of the standard (not Pug) line, though in some > > cases, special car ends (horse car) were made.. > > > > The last notable change to the standard line of Walthers passenger cars > > occurred in the 1970's(?) When molded plastic roof sections were > > made available. I would label them Phase V cars. > > > > While not a complete Walther's passenger car history, this > > information, along with Don's detailed description of Walthers kit box > > designs, will allow one to make a good estimate of when a particular kit > > or model was manufactured over their 45+ year run. > > > > Summary - Walthers Passenger Car Construction (by catalog date) > > > > 1937(?)-1939; Armite (card or fibre) sides, wood roof floor and ends; > > 5600 series, (Phase I) > > > > 1940-1949; Tinplated steel sides with top and bottom fold; no rivets or > > with paper rivet strips; cast white metal ends; 6600 series, (Phase II) > > > > 1950-1959; Tinplated steel sides with top and bottom fold; with embossed > > rivets; cast white metal ends, wood roof and floor; 7600 series, (Phase > > III) > > > > 1960-?: Tinplated steel sides without bottom fold; with embossed rivets; > > cast white metal ends, new high profile wood roof, floor; 7800 series, > > (Phase IV) > > > > 1970's(?)-end: Tinplated steel sides without bottom fold; embossed > > rivets; cast white metal ends, plastic roof, wood floor; 7800 series, > > (Phase V) > > > > Please recognize that this information is not complete or final and > > subject to revision as more information becomes available (or I am > > corrected, lol!) . Walthers name (C) copyright Walthers. The > > presentation of factual information, personal descriptions and > > conclusions are (C) 2011 W. Jay Wanczyk. > > > > Whew! > > > > W. Jay W. > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17254	From: rcjge	Date: 8/21/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology; Alco HH powering

Hi Jay: I've been offered original Walther's power truck(s) for mine and have the Athearn SW option, and as you suggest a very appealing Varney one. I really appreciate your insight. You are right the debate now begins as to how much I can "mod" the shell, especially the leading edge of the hood; top & sides? I like the rounded top and sides reflecting later HH practice, BUT the model which I need to date (is there any way?) has some merit to being kept original (feather edged). -Gareth E. Bradford-WG, Ont.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17255	From: Jay	Date: 8/21/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology

Hi Denny A., Thank you (and all) for the good words and offers of information on the Walthers Passenger car project. It is very encouraging to know I am on the right track, so to speak! I have used what I compiled from the early catalogs as an outline and now will build upon that with additional car information from the catalogs, advertisements and other documented sources and information. I apreciated the additional information about Frank Taylor. Taylor's name first appeard on the MR masthead as "Editorial Assistant" in June, 1939, then later served as Assistant Editor and finally was appointed Editor in July 1942. I know I have read some additional biographical infomation on him in the later 1940's MR and his association with Carl Traub that became Globe Models. They were planning on a new Post WW II HO scale steam locomotive, but that project never was realized. For that matter, Walthers proposed line of post WW II "Polydrive" HO steam locomotives was stillborn as well. That contention that Walther's cars were not strictly to HO scale must have hit home with "Bill" Walthers because he began adding that 3.5 mm note in his catalogs; will check to see what date he added that claim. I will have to find a scale drawing of one of the Walther's car prototypes and compare it to the actual pre-7800 series model. Possibly the length is OK, just the car heights lower than 3.5" for the reasons you stated? Speaking of the change from the lower 7600 series to revised 7800 series kits, it occured two years earlier than I initially reported. It seems that Walthers repeated the same "new models" catalog pages for the 7800 series passenger cars for several years running, as Model Railroader's April, 1958 issue contained a Trade Topics review for the New 7800 series cars and their appearanvce was reflected in their ads as well. (I am missing the 1958 & 1959 catalogs in my collection, so far.) That is why it is imopiortant to not rely on catalogs alone for information, but to cross check it with reviews and ads from other sources. Well, enough of me for now, should cut some lawn before the rain comes! W. Jay W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Denny Anspach <danspach@...> wrote: > > The Chronology is excellent, the best I have yet come across, and probably is definitive. > > Taylor was an inventive fellow model railroad entrepreneur in Milwaukee, and he apparently worked did job work for Bill Walthers in the mid thirties, before selling him the Baltic locomotive kit, and then becoming for a time a Walthers employee. He must have had the passenger car kit concept "in his brief case" when he joined Walthers (Dec 1935?) to answer for why Walthers first produced them under the Taylor name. > > I always presumed that the first cars were made to 1/8" scale because of the out-of-scale low roofs and the reduced heights of the sides occasioned by having the lower sheets fold under the floor rather than extend substantially *below* the floor as in the prototype. This view has been controverted by Walthers own repeated printed words at the time indicating a full 3.5mm/ft. scale. > > The JC roofs were the proper height, but the profile was distorted and incorrect with a "squished-down" clearstory. I replaced most of my JC roofs of the time with the later Walthers wood roofs, which were then and are still now pretty much correct both in height and profile. > > The Milwaukee Baltic 4-6-4 locomotives were designed and ordered in 1927, long before the streamline era. They were called BALTICs after the assigned designation of only other 4-6-4s previously-built and named, , the noted French NORD 4-6-4 locomotives of 1912, the first locomotives of this wheel arrangement. The NYC's 4-6-4 HUDSONs were not yet ordered, although they soon were. Because of the severe financial problems of the Milwaukee at the time (it had just finished reorganization), the order was delayed so that the NYC's Hudsons were delivered first, claiming pride of place and name. Right up until the last, however, all the Milwaukee's 4-6-4s, both the early F6's and the later, larger and streamlined F-7s were officially designated BALTICS, never HUDSONs. > > The very last 4-6-4s ever built c. 1948, and probably the greatest of them all, were also French , and also designated as BALTICs (they were gorgeous locomotives). They were designed by the legendary Andre Chapelon, undoubtedly the dean of steam locomotive engineering. > > Denny > > Denny S. Anspach, MD > Okoboji, Iowa >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17256	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 8/21/2011
Subject: Little Japanese switcher

Attachments : IMG_7276.JPG IMG_7275_1.JPG IMG_7273.JPG I found a couple of minutes to strip the green paint from the body of the little switcher I got off eBay. Fixed the separated seam on the back left side of the cab. Lube, oiled and adjusted motor and gear mesh. Since I have no idea if this ever had a factory painted scheme with decals I will polish up the brass body , assembly it to the frame, add the couplers and set it on the shelf. A neat little piece and something a little different Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 17257	From: Jay	Date: 8/21/2011
Subject: Re: Alco HH powering

Hi Gareth, Lucky for you to get an original power truck. Do you know if it is 6 volt or 12 volt truck? Count the poles, (3 poles are 6 volt) and if 6 volt, do not apply more than 8 volts for breif periods!! Here is the link to the September 1946 edition of the atractive Walthers Alco HH plans and instructions that appear on HOSeeker: http://hoseeker.org/walthers/walthers6410alcodiesel1946.jpg Instruction paragraph #2 discusses rounding some of the edges and the plans indicate where with a small "R." As for as the prototype, only the first eight units had completely flat fronts with no rounded corners whatsoever like the Walthers model; only the sides to hood top were rounded, and of those eight original units, seven went to the Lackawanna. The Walthers cast lead Alco HH switchers were introduced in the 1941 Walthers HO catalog, published in April of that year. However, Walthers kept using the photograph of the smaller completely different sand cast bronze model though 1948. This gave many the impression that except for materials, both models were identical. Finally in their 1949 catalog, an actual photo of the cast lead model was used. But in 1950, probably because the older photo was clearer, they went right back to using the 1938 bronze model photo, LOL! The original, slightly smaller sand cast bronze model (narrower hood, appx 1/2" shorter overall, different cab roof), was introduced in an ad in December 1938 Model Railraoder (as referred to in various 1939 Walthers ads). It was featured and described as made of bronze castings in their 1939 and 1940 catalogs. I do not have plans for either the original bronze version or the 1942 cast lead version. The Alco HH is my favorite prototype switcher, likely since I first saw them as a single digit kid from the back seat of the family car, working the Erie's yard leads in the late 1950's when we were going to the city (NYC) via the Holland Tunnel. Finding a cast broze model about 20 years ago at train show and buying it despite the fact that someone had tried to pry off the hood top with a crowbar or pound in tent pegs - I did not even know it was made by Walthers for sure - but took that leap of faith as a neat model to have, bought it and have been a vintage modeler and collector ever since. A wonderful, comprehensive soft cover guide to the prototype Alco HH switchers was published a few years ago by Withers and includes photos of at least one unit, usually more for every order ever built. https://secure.witherspublishing.com:7444/catalog/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=26&products_id=185&osCsid=cf0ca02bda0b1d1a1c45235ba023b929 It is pouring rain now, no grass to cut today! W. Jay W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "rcjge" <jgpedwards@...> wrote: > > Hi Jay: > > I've been offered original Walther's power truck(s) for mine and have the Athearn SW option, and as you suggest a very appealing Varney one. > > I really appreciate your insight. You are right the debate now begins as to how much I can "mod" the shell, especially the leading edge of the hood; top & sides? I like the rounded top and sides reflecting later HH practice, BUT the model which I need to date (is there any way?) has some merit to being kept original (feather edged). > > -Gareth E. > Bradford-WG, Ont. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17258	From: Jay	Date: 8/21/2011
Subject: Re: Little Japanese switcher

Looks great, Jim, like new. I especially like those counterweights on the drivers. W. Jay W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > > > > > > I found a couple of minutes to strip the green paint from the > body of the little switcher I got off eBay. Fixed the separated seam on > the back left side of the cab. Lube, oiled and adjusted motor and gear > mesh. Since I have no idea if this ever had a factory painted scheme > with decals I will polish up the brass body , assembly it to the frame, > add the couplers and set it on the shelf. > > A neat little piece and something a little different > > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17259	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 8/21/2011
Subject: Re: Alco HH powering

I have the power truck from a Penn-Line FA diesel. Got it at Trainfest some years back with a badly rotted body. It looks similar to my Walthers HH600's power truck. Any ideas if it would work to replace the front dummy truck? As it is, my HH600 came disassembled when I moved over a year ago, and is sitting in pieces now. It would be nice to have two powered trucks, and if each powered truck had its own motor, well, coupled with the weight of the unit, would probably be able to pull teeth out! -Steve Neubaum --- On Sun, 8/21/11, Jay <the_plainsman@...> wrote: From: Jay <the_plainsman@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Alco HH powering To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, August 21, 2011, 12:39 PM   Hi Gareth, Lucky for you to get an original power truck. Do you know if it is 6 volt or 12 volt truck? Count the poles, (3 poles are 6 volt) and if 6 volt, do not apply more than 8 volts for breif periods!! Here is the link to the September 1946 edition of the atractive Walthers Alco HH plans and instructions that appear on HOSeeker: http://hoseeker.org/walthers/walthers6410alcodiesel1946.jpg Instruction paragraph #2 discusses rounding some of the edges and the plans indicate where with a small "R." As for as the prototype, only the first eight units had completely flat fronts with no rounded corners whatsoever like the Walthers model; only the sides to hood top were rounded, and of those eight original units, seven went to the Lackawanna. The Walthers cast lead Alco HH switchers were introduced in the 1941 Walthers HO catalog, published in April of that year. However, Walthers kept using the photograph of the smaller completely different sand cast bronze model though 1948. This gave many the impression that except for materials, both models were identical. Finally in their 1949 catalog, an actual photo of the cast lead model was used. But in 1950, probably because the older photo was clearer, they went right back to using the 1938 bronze model photo, LOL! The original, slightly smaller sand cast bronze model (narrower hood, appx 1/2" shorter overall, different cab roof), was introduced in an ad in December 1938 Model Railraoder (as referred to in various 1939 Walthers ads). It was featured and described as made of bronze castings in their 1939 and 1940 catalogs. I do not have plans for either the original bronze version or the 1942 cast lead version. The Alco HH is my favorite prototype switcher, likely since I first saw them as a single digit kid from the back seat of the family car, working the Erie's yard leads in the late 1950's when we were going to the city (NYC) via the Holland Tunnel. Finding a cast broze model about 20 years ago at train show and buying it despite the fact that someone had tried to pry off the hood top with a crowbar or pound in tent pegs - I did not even know it was made by Walthers for sure - but took that leap of faith as a neat model to have, bought it and have been a vintage modeler and collector ever since. A wonderful, comprehensive soft cover guide to the prototype Alco HH switchers was published a few years ago by Withers and includes photos of at least one unit, usually more for every order ever built. https://secure.witherspublishing.com:7444/catalog/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=26&products_id=185&osCsid=cf0ca02bda0b1d1a1c45235ba023b929 It is pouring rain now, no grass to cut today! W. Jay W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "rcjge" <jgpedwards@...> wrote: > > Hi Jay: > > I've been offered original Walther's power truck(s) for mine and have the Athearn SW option, and as you suggest a very appealing Varney one. > > I really appreciate your insight. You are right the debate now begins as to how much I can "mod" the shell, especially the leading edge of the hood; top & sides? I like the rounded top and sides reflecting later HH practice, BUT the model which I need to date (is there any way?) has some merit to being kept original (feather edged). > > -Gareth E. > Bradford-WG, Ont. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17260	From: Glenn	Date: 8/21/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Passenger Car Discussion - Sperry Car & Walthers Awards

I would say look for THS ads in MR 1963-64--I built it while a member of the West Basy MRRClub in Menlo Park, CA--so would have been those dates. It was sold just as a swt of stamped tinplate parts. There had been a plan in MR recently--you were on your own to build it. The Walthers Passenger Car Award wan eligible to any manufacturer's products--although the first one I got was with an O Sclae Walthers kit for the Olympian Hiawatha "Skytop" sleeper-lounge. No photos I can recall--sold the partly finished train to a fellow in Texas last spring. The second--a couple of years later, was D&RGW Parlor-Buffet "Alamosa" in On3 from a LaBelle kit. Both had full interiors. The contenders for the award were the winners of the passenger car category in that year's NMRA regional convention contests, as certified by the regional contest chairmen. gj -----Original Message----- From: Jay Sent: Sunday, August 21, 2011 7:44 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Walthers Passenger Car Discussion - Sperry Car & Walthers Awards Hi Glenn, Thanks for the information on the Walthers/Terminal Hobby Shop Sperry Detector car parts. I will see if any mention of it was in either MR or RMC. I certainly will have my radar on to see if I can find a set or assembled model and will make note of it in the final article. Also for the information on the Walthers Awards. Was it only for models using Walther's parts, or for any passenger car models. Do you have photos of your award winning models in your album here? W. Jay W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Glenn" <glenn476@...> wrote: > > One car that might not be in the catalogsâ€"in the early sixties Walthers > “Terminal Hobby Shop” listed a set of sides, ends, and doors for a > Sperry Detector Car in O and HO. I built the O Scale version. It got away > from me in the early 70’s. I also built several O scale cars, and the > ATSF Division Superintendent’s car, in HO, modeling one that was here on > the YW. > > gj > > From: Jay Wanczyk > Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2011 6:20 PM > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & > Chronology [1 Attachment] > > [Attachment(s) from Jay Wanczyk included below] > > > To Richard, Don and Glenn and All! Jim H. see the last sentence!) > > Richard, thanks for the compliment for my efforts to date. We still have > many blanks to fill, but I believe this to be a good beginning and > framework to build upon. > > Next, besides finding a copy or photocpy of the 1937 Walthers HO catalog > (and possibly a pre-Walthers Frank Taylor catalog, will be to review the > Walthers Model railroader ads, as they often provide additional > information. I am virtually complete the years from 1937 on, but am > missing 1938, 1940 and 1941, so may start looking again to find them > reasoably or wait until the DVD is out. > > Another step is to review Walthers newsletters, first called Crestline > News, later called The Blazer. Only have two from 1938 and one or two of > the latter circa 1950, so that will be catch as catch can. > > The big step, but doable with catalogs and ads will be listing the catalog > numbers and type cars that were offered each year, as there were constant > revisions and special issues as well, even into the last few years. One > big help in crosschecking will be the list posted in our group files > listing the Walthers kits. > > Don, One way we might be able to trace the period of use of the Crestline > "brand" besides ads (the catalogs I have 1938-1950, excepting 1943, 1944 > do not mention Crestline) is through examinination and documentation of > existing kits we have, dating them by catalog number and those neat > packing slips. > > A few years ago, it was my uneducated assumption, at least early on, that > Crestline was the name Walthers used on some of his O Scale kits, but > proved my assumption wrong, as some of my yellow box Walthers passenger > (and freight!) car kits have come in original Walthers Crestline boxes. > Attached is a photo of a 6 volt "Crestline HO Motor Unit" which I found > hidden on eBay a few years ago. > > > Glen, One cool thing about Walthers is that they consistanly documnetd > their line in several ways, and that book you mentioned likely will help. > Walthers published a similar, no doubt smaller Guide to HO Passenger cars > in 1943 as well, which I found in a gass electric kit box along with the > supplemental gas electric plans and regular passenger car instructions. > (only 13 different cars are shown in that 1943 guide edition, down from > the number shown in the 1942 catalog.) > > All: It's funny how I arrived at doing Walthers Passenger car research as > I began by documenting the production of my favorite Bronze Walthers Alco > High Hood switcher and the CNW Gas Electric. To understand and date those > models year by year, it was necessary to document the production of the > Walthers 6 and 12 volt power trucks, gear ratios, etc and also figure out > what the story was about "those passenger cars." > > The very detailed article on the Alco HH switchers, the bronze model as > well as the different cast version, the Gas Electric and Walthers Power > trucks will be done hopefully by fall. The resarch is fun for me, if time > consuming and one never knows where one will end up! What usually happens > is that the more I know about a particular model, I end up wanting to add > it to the collection! > > Jim H, While knee deep in ancient Walthers catalogs, I am also copying > down information on the development and changes to the Walthers Baltic > locomotive and will try to wrap up what I have found to date and see if i > can get it posted here in the next few days. > > Think a ball game is on now, have to go and sit down and take a break, > LOL! > > W. Jay W. > > > > > From: Richard White <toytrain13@...> > To: Jim Heckard <vintageho@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2011 5:32 PM > Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & > Chronology > > > > Jay- Terrific! I've recently begun constructing what you label Phase IV > and V cars. Your detailed chronology makes the history of these kits a lot > chearer. Thanks- Richard White > > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > From: the_plainsman@... > Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 19:34:40 +0000 > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology > > > Correction! In paragraph 14 exchange the last sentence, "I have > nominally labeled thesefirst embossed tinplate sided cars (without > embossed rivets) "Phase III cars." > with "I have nominally labeled these second generation tinplate sided cars > WITH embossed rivets, "Phase III Cars". > Sorry, no matter how many time one proofreads, there is always an error > that rears its ugly head after "send' is clicked. The summary at the end > is OK Jay > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Jay" <the_plainsman@> wrote: > > > > > > Walthers Heavyweight Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology > > > > A few days ago I offered an off-the-cuff 45+ year chronology of the > > Walthers Passenger car line without having my data at hand, so I went to > > the notes and history I have drafted along with my mostly complete > > library of Walthers catalogs from 1938-1950 and some from 1960 and later > > and offer this brief chronology. (A summary appears at the end.) > > > > Wm. "Bill" Walthers always had a knack for spotting good smaller > > manufacturers, buying them out and making improvements to those products > > as part of his line. He began by purchasing Frank Taylor's > > "Taylor-Made" HO line consisting of the Milwaukee Baltic locomotive and > > a number of passenger and freight cars and Frank Taylor became an > > employee for a time before becoming the editor of Model Railroader > > magazine. > > > > Walthers 1938 HO Catalog, the earliest I have, describes the new > > Walthers passenger car line as follows: > > > > "TAYLOR-MADE passenger cars are accurate to scale and the most realistic > > HO models on the market. Car sides and sash are now made of Armite which > > is tough and durable. Window and door openings are punched out clean, > > belt rail and doors are depressed. Roof, floor and ends are made of > > wood, milled to size. Diaphragms are made of folded paper with metal > > rubbing plate. Details include: roof and underbelly details, diecast > > steps, couplers, triple valve, generator and air brake cylinder. All > > trucks come assembled. Paint, transfersand drawings included." > > > > Interesting to note the phrasing that "Car sides and sash are now made > > of Armite;" does this mean that they were originally made of perhaps > > plain card sides like the freight cars during Taylor's production or > > possibly even the first year of Walthers production? > > > > In 1938 Walthers cataloged passenger cars in the 5600 series, with 13 > > different types and 8 additional paint/decal variations, for a total of > > 21 different kits. The CNW gas electric was also listed in the 5600 > > series and it may be logically assumed for the present that it also had > > Armite sides as the listing states, "Plan of construction and design of > > parts is the same as for our passenger cars." For reason that will be > > clear later, I have nominally labeled these "Armite" sided passenger > > cars with wood ends, "Phase 1 cars." > > > > In his 1939 HO catalog (#3), Walthers dropped the references to the > > "Taylor-Made" line and opened the passenger car page with this modified > > quote, " Without a .doubt, the Walthers' line of HO passenger car > > models are the most realistic miniature cars ever offered." The > > description of materials is the same as the precious year, however, and > > this also includes the gas electric. > > > > The 1940 Walthers HO Catalog announced the first major change in > > passenger car construction with the introduction of embossed tinplate > > sides and cast metal ends. > > > > Walthers states, "For some time we have been working on a redesigned HO > > passenger car to get away from the use of armite sides and give the HO > > cars some of the outstanding features of our O gauge line." He continued > > below, "The features of these new cars include: highly detailed die cast > > ends with lugs for attaching the roof and the floor, pressed metal sides > > with panel doors and windows and embossed letterboard and belt rail. The > > sides are channeled so they may be attached to the underside of the > > floor and roof..." > > > > Eleven different types of cars were listed, now numbered in the 6600 > > series. I have nominally labeled these first embossed tinplate sided > > cars (without embossed rivets) "Phase II cars." > > > > In 1940, the CNW gas electric was still listed in the 5600 series but > > the description was unchanged from previous years, "Plan of construction > > and design of parts is the same as for our passenger cars." For now, it > > will be difficult to conclusively say when the change from Armite to > > tinplate side occurred, (Phase I to Phase II) but it might have been > > concurrent with the regular passenger car change. > > > > The construction of 6600 series of Walthers passenger cars essentially > > continued virtually unchanged from the 1940 catalog through the 1949 > > catalog, though in that year there were now 21 different types. However, > > in 1942 first mention was made that "Rivet effect is obtained by > > applying paper overlay with scale embossed paper rivets." I suppose > > that Walthers was feeling the heat from his competItors like Varney, > > whose heavyweights featured finely embossed rivets on their sides. . > > > > Though it was sold with Phase II construction, namely cars now having > > embossed tinplate sides, but without rivets similar to the 6600 > > passenger cars, the CNW Gas Electric was still inexplicably numbered in > > the 5600 series! > > > > 1950 saw the next major change in Walthers passenger car construction - > > rivets! In the introduction to the Passenger car section, Walthers > > states, " The new 7600 series of HO passenger cars (and the 7500 series > > traction kits) are marvels for detail..." The caption next to an > > enlarged photo of a portion of a car side notes the embossed rivets. The > > top and bottom of the side was still "folded" to permit easy mounting to > > floor and roof. Twenty-eight different car types and roof configurations > > were cataloged. I have nominally labeled these first embossed tinplate > > sided cars (without embossed rivets) "Phase III cars." > > > > In 1950, the CNW gas electric numbering was changed to the 6450 series > > with a new matching trailer listed in the 7600 series. This is likely > > when the riveted sided appeared, matching the changes in the regular > > passenger line. > > > > The Walthers line continued through the 1950's without much change > > to the passenger car line construction, with the notable exception of > > the special "Pug" Passenger cars and the Shuttle Jack. However, new > > window configurations were introduced in the regular passenger car line > > based upon various prototypes. > > > > The 1960 Walthers HO catalog heralded the next major change in standard > > passenger car construction which affected both the car sides and roof > > profile and a introduced a new number series, the 7800's. First, the > > sides had a "New straight design (not folded under at bottom) makes it > > easy to detail the underbelly." "Goo" was promoted for assembly. > > > > The roof cross section was substantially changed as well, considerably > > higher , quote, "to match the old J-C cars and present day models..." > > The new roof part number was M381 while the old, lower profile, M-133 > > was still available separately for those who wanted to match their older > > Walthers cars. I have read somewhere that the original Walthers, AKA > > Taylor-Made passenger cars were scaled 1/8" to the foot and not 3.5 mm. > > Would that account for the fact that the Walthers roofs were always a > > bit low in comparison to other scale dimentioned HO passenger cars? > > > > I have nominally labeled these "Phase IV cars." > > > > The early 1960's also saw many additional types of passenger cars, > > such as the Favorite Prototype series, but construction technique and > > material reflected that of the standard (not Pug) line, though in some > > cases, special car ends (horse car) were made.. > > > > The last notable change to the standard line of Walthers passenger cars > > occurred in the 1970's(?) When molded plastic roof sections were > > made available. I would label them Phase V cars. > > > > While not a complete Walther's passenger car history, this > > information, along with Don's detailed description of Walthers kit box > > designs, will allow one to make a good estimate of when a particular kit > > or model was manufactured over their 45+ year run. > > > > Summary - Walthers Passenger Car Construction (by catalog date) > > > > 1937(?)-1939; Armite (card or fibre) sides, wood roof floor and ends; > > 5600 series, (Phase I) > > > > 1940-1949; Tinplated steel sides with top and bottom fold; no rivets or > > with paper rivet strips; cast white metal ends; 6600 series, (Phase II) > > > > 1950-1959; Tinplated steel sides with top and bottom fold; with embossed > > rivets; cast white metal ends, wood roof and floor; 7600 series, (Phase > > III) > > > > 1960-?: Tinplated steel sides without bottom fold; with embossed rivets; > > cast white metal ends, new high profile wood roof, floor; 7800 series, > > (Phase IV) > > > > 1970's(?)-end: Tinplated steel sides without bottom fold; embossed > > rivets; cast white metal ends, plastic roof, wood floor; 7800 series, > > (Phase V) > > > > Please recognize that this information is not complete or final and > > subject to revision as more information becomes available (or I am > > corrected, lol!) . Walthers name (C) copyright Walthers. The > > presentation of factual information, personal descriptions and > > conclusions are (C) 2011 W. Jay Wanczyk. > > > > Whew! > > > > W. Jay W. > > > > > > > > > > > > Attachment(s) from Jay Wanczyk > > 1 of 1 Photo(s) > > Crestline HO Motor Unit.jpg > ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17261	From: Rick Jones	Date: 8/21/2011
Subject: Re: Little Japanese switcher [3 Attachments]

On 8/21/2011 12:17 PM, Jim Heckard wrote: > I found a couple of minutes to strip the green paint from the > body of the little switcher I got off eBay. Fixed the separated seam on > the back left side of the cab. Lube, oiled and adjusted motor and gear > mesh. Since I have no idea if this ever had a factory painted scheme > with decals I will polish up the brass body , assembly it to the frame, > add the couplers and set it on the shelf. > > A neat little piece and something a little different Perhaps a bit crude by today's standards but still a cute little critter. -- Rick Jones Why do people pay to go up tall buildings and then put money in binoculars to look at things on the ground?

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17262	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 8/21/2011
Subject: Re: Alco HH powering

Hi Jay: Can you fire me a pic of your bronze "HH"? One of my fave switchers too. I was planning to round not the sides of the roofline but rather the nose at the top and sides to get the more customary look of the later models (prototype). My issue there as with many of us is the orthodoxy of it. You're right, Walthers actually say in #2 to break (round) the sides of the hood and roofline. Probably has to do with the edge being created by a mold to allow easier release. Anyway, I have to have that argument with myself. The advantage of using the Athearn or Varney power solutions is I'd have all wheel pick-up and power. I like the idea but it's then less vintage.... Hmmmmm, back to being a Vintage Train Heretic and apostate! :P If it's going to sit and be a; "yes that's a vintage model train"! then the original power trucks are the way to go... If I want to operate it, and if I understand correctly that the shell was sold separately from early on then I would likely be one of a hundred who used the Varney Switcher chassis to power it. That's a reformed view if not orthodox! ;) -Gareth On 21 August 2011 13:39, Jay <the_plainsman@...> wrote:   Hi Gareth, Lucky for you to get an original power truck. Do you know if it is 6 volt or 12 volt truck? Count the poles, (3 poles are 6 volt) and if 6 volt, do not apply more than 8 volts for breif periods!! Here is the link to the September 1946 edition of the atractive Walthers Alco HH plans and instructions that appear on HOSeeker: http://hoseeker.org/walthers/walthers6410alcodiesel1946.jpg Instruction paragraph #2 discusses rounding some of the edges and the plans indicate where with a small "R." As for as the prototype, only the first eight units had completely flat fronts with no rounded corners whatsoever like the Walthers model; only the sides to hood top were rounded, and of those eight original units, seven went to the Lackawanna. The Walthers cast lead Alco HH switchers were introduced in the 1941 Walthers HO catalog, published in April of that year. However, Walthers kept using the photograph of the smaller completely different sand cast bronze model though 1948. This gave many the impression that except for materials, both models were identical. Finally in their 1949 catalog, an actual photo of the cast lead model was used. But in 1950, probably because the older photo was clearer, they went right back to using the 1938 bronze model photo, LOL! The original, slightly smaller sand cast bronze model (narrower hood, appx 1/2" shorter overall, different cab roof), was introduced in an ad in December 1938 Model Railraoder (as referred to in various 1939 Walthers ads). It was featured and described as made of bronze castings in their 1939 and 1940 catalogs. I do not have plans for either the original bronze version or the 1942 cast lead version. The Alco HH is my favorite prototype switcher, likely since I first saw them as a single digit kid from the back seat of the family car, working the Erie's yard leads in the late 1950's when we were going to the city (NYC) via the Holland Tunnel. Finding a cast broze model about 20 years ago at train show and buying it despite the fact that someone had tried to pry off the hood top with a crowbar or pound in tent pegs - I did not even know it was made by Walthers for sure - but took that leap of faith as a neat model to have, bought it and have been a vintage modeler and collector ever since. A wonderful, comprehensive soft cover guide to the prototype Alco HH switchers was published a few years ago by Withers and includes photos of at least one unit, usually more for every order ever built. https://secure.witherspublishing.com:7444/catalog/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=26&products_id=185&osCsid=cf0ca02bda0b1d1a1c45235ba023b929 It is pouring rain now, no grass to cut today! W. Jay W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "rcjge" <jgpedwards@...> wrote: > > Hi Jay: > > I've been offered original Walther's power truck(s) for mine and have the Athearn SW option, and as you suggest a very appealing Varney one. > > I really appreciate your insight. You are right the debate now begins as to how much I can "mod" the shell, especially the leading edge of the hood; top & sides? I like the rounded top and sides reflecting later HH practice, BUT the model which I need to date (is there any way?) has some merit to being kept original (feather edged). > > -Gareth E. > Bradford-WG, Ont. > -- "Clear Eyes, Full Heart, Can't Lose!"

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17263	From: rcjge	Date: 8/22/2011
Subject: Walthers HH thread WAS Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & Chronolog

Re: [vintageHO] Re: Alco HH powering Hi Jay: Can you fire me a pic of your bronze "HH"? One of my fave switchers too. I was planning to round not the sides of the roofline but rather the nose at the top and sides to get the more customary look of the later models (prototype). My issue there as with many of us is the orthodoxy of it. You're right, Walthers actually say in #2 to break (round) the sides of the hood and roofline. Probably has to do with the edge being created by a mold to allow easier release. Anyway, I have to have that argument with myself. The advantage of using the Athearn or Varney power solutions is I'd have all wheel pick-up and power. I like the idea but it's then less vintage.... Hmmmmm, back to being a Vintage Train Heretic and apostate! :P If it's going to sit and be a; "yes that's a vintage model train"! then the original power trucks are the way to go... If I want to operate it, and if I understand correctly that the shell was sold separately from early on then I would likely be one of a hundred who used the Varney Switcher chassis to power it. That's a reformed view if not orthodox! ;) -Gareth On 21 August 2011 13:39, Jay <the_plainsman@...> wrote: Hi Gareth, Lucky for you to get an original power truck. Do you know if it is 6 volt or 12 volt truck? Count the poles, (3 poles are 6 volt) and if 6 volt, do not apply more than 8 volts for breif periods!! Here is the link to the September 1946 edition of the atractive Walthers Alco HH plans and instructions that appear on HOSeeker: http://hoseeker.org/walthers/walthers6410alcodiesel1946.jpg Instruction paragraph #2 discusses rounding some of the edges and the plans indicate where with a small "R." As for as the prototype, only the first eight units had completely flat fronts with no rounded corners whatsoever like the Walthers model; only the sides to hood top were rounded, and of those eight original units, seven went to the Lackawanna. The Walthers cast lead Alco HH switchers were introduced in the 1941 Walthers HO catalog, published in April of that year. However, Walthers kept using the photograph of the smaller completely different sand cast bronze model though 1948. This gave many the impression that except for materials, both models were identical. Finally in their 1949 catalog, an actual photo of the cast lead model was used. But in 1950, probably because the older photo was clearer, they went right back to using the 1938 bronze model photo, LOL! The original, slightly smaller sand cast bronze model (narrower hood, appx 1/2" shorter overall, different cab roof), was introduced in an ad in December 1938 Model Railraoder (as referred to in various 1939 Walthers ads). It was featured and described as made of bronze castings in their 1939 and 1940 catalogs. I do not have plans for either the original bronze version or the 1942 cast lead version. The Alco HH is my favorite prototype switcher, likely since I first saw them as a single digit kid from the back seat of the family car, working the Erie's yard leads in the late 1950's when we were going to the city (NYC) via the Holland Tunnel. Finding a cast broze model about 20 years ago at train show and buying it despite the fact that someone had tried to pry off the hood top with a crowbar or pound in tent pegs - I did not even know it was made by Walthers for sure - but took that leap of faith as a neat model to have, bought it and have been a vintage modeler and collector ever since. A wonderful, comprehensive soft cover guide to the prototype Alco HH switchers was published a few years ago by Withers and includes photos of at least one unit, usually more for every order ever built. https://secure.witherspublishing.com:7444/catalog/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=26&products_id=185&osCsid=cf0ca02bda0b1d1a1c45235ba023b929 It is pouring rain now, no grass to cut today! W. Jay W.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17264	From: Jay	Date: 8/22/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers Passenger Car/THS Sperry Car Parts Ad Located

Hi Glenn, Last night I found a Walthers' Terminal Hobby Shop ad for the HO and O Scale Sperry car sides and ends you mentioned, on page 64 of the January, 1965 issue of MR. The small 1/2 of a single column ad contains a tiny illustration, a typical Walthers line drawing of the parts with Sperry lettering. Cost of THS101 was $1.95. The ad also featured a second offering of HO scale sides for another passenger car model, a "13 Room" Pullman which I believe was also not a regular Walthers catalog item. Those sides, THS102 were priced at $1.95 for the pair. Item THS103 were remainders of the [Arvid?] Anderson Depot Kits, so do not know if Walthers ever manufactured any additionl THS special car sides, but will now check the THS ads, too. If anone has a set of those Walthers/THS Sperry car sides and ends, please contact me off list - I'm interested! W. Jay W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Glenn" <glenn476@...> wrote: > > I would say look for THS ads in MR 1963-64--I built it while a member of the > West Basy MRRClub in Menlo Park, CA--so would have been those dates. It was > sold just as a swt of stamped tinplate parts. There had been a plan in MR > recently--you were on your own to build it. > > The Walthers Passenger Car Award wan eligible to any manufacturer's > products--although the first one I got was with an O Sclae Walthers kit for > the Olympian Hiawatha "Skytop" sleeper-lounge. No photos I can > recall--sold the partly finished train to a fellow in Texas last spring. > The second--a couple of years later, was D&RGW Parlor-Buffet "Alamosa" in > On3 from a LaBelle kit. Both had full interiors. > > The contenders for the award were the winners of the passenger car category > in that year's NMRA regional convention contests, as certified by the > regional contest chairmen. > > gj > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jay > Sent: Sunday, August 21, 2011 7:44 AM > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Walthers Passenger Car Discussion - Sperry Car & > Walthers Awards > > Hi Glenn, Thanks for the information on the Walthers/Terminal Hobby Shop > Sperry Detector car parts. I will see if any mention of it was in either MR > or RMC. I certainly will have my radar on to see if I can find a set or > assembled model and will make note of it in the final article. Also for the > information on the Walthers Awards. Was it only for models using Walther's > parts, or for any passenger car models. Do you have photos of your award > winning models in your album here? W. Jay W. > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Glenn" <glenn476@> wrote: > > > > One car that might not be in the catalogsâ€"in the early sixties Walthers > > â€Å"Terminal Hobby Shop” listed a set of sides, ends, and doors for a > > Sperry Detector Car in O and HO. I built the O Scale version. It got away > > from me in the early 70’s. I also built several O scale cars, and the > > ATSF Division Superintendent’s car, in HO, modeling one that was here on > > the YW. > > > > gj > > > > From: Jay Wanczyk > > Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2011 6:20 PM > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & > > Chronology [1 Attachment] > > > > [Attachment(s) from Jay Wanczyk included below] > > > > > > To Richard, Don and Glenn and All! Jim H. see the last sentence!) > > > > Richard, thanks for the compliment for my efforts to date. We still have > > many blanks to fill, but I believe this to be a good beginning and > > framework to build upon. > > > > Next, besides finding a copy or photocpy of the 1937 Walthers HO catalog > > (and possibly a pre-Walthers Frank Taylor catalog, will be to review the > > Walthers Model railroader ads, as they often provide additional > > information. I am virtually complete the years from 1937 on, but am > > missing 1938, 1940 and 1941, so may start looking again to find them > > reasoably or wait until the DVD is out. > > > > Another step is to review Walthers newsletters, first called Crestline > > News, later called The Blazer. Only have two from 1938 and one or two of > > the latter circa 1950, so that will be catch as catch can. > > > > The big step, but doable with catalogs and ads will be listing the catalog > > numbers and type cars that were offered each year, as there were constant > > revisions and special issues as well, even into the last few years. One > > big help in crosschecking will be the list posted in our group files > > listing the Walthers kits. > > > > Don, One way we might be able to trace the period of use of the Crestline > > "brand" besides ads (the catalogs I have 1938-1950, excepting 1943, 1944 > > do not mention Crestline) is through examinination and documentation of > > existing kits we have, dating them by catalog number and those neat > > packing slips. > > > > A few years ago, it was my uneducated assumption, at least early on, that > > Crestline was the name Walthers used on some of his O Scale kits, but > > proved my assumption wrong, as some of my yellow box Walthers passenger > > (and freight!) car kits have come in original Walthers Crestline boxes. > > Attached is a photo of a 6 volt "Crestline HO Motor Unit" which I found > > hidden on eBay a few years ago. > > > > > > Glen, One cool thing about Walthers is that they consistanly documnetd > > their line in several ways, and that book you mentioned likely will help. > > Walthers published a similar, no doubt smaller Guide to HO Passenger cars > > in 1943 as well, which I found in a gass electric kit box along with the > > supplemental gas electric plans and regular passenger car instructions. > > (only 13 different cars are shown in that 1943 guide edition, down from > > the number shown in the 1942 catalog.) > > > > All: It's funny how I arrived at doing Walthers Passenger car research as > > I began by documenting the production of my favorite Bronze Walthers Alco > > High Hood switcher and the CNW Gas Electric. To understand and date those > > models year by year, it was necessary to document the production of the > > Walthers 6 and 12 volt power trucks, gear ratios, etc and also figure out > > what the story was about "those passenger cars." > > > > The very detailed article on the Alco HH switchers, the bronze model as > > well as the different cast version, the Gas Electric and Walthers Power > > trucks will be done hopefully by fall. The resarch is fun for me, if time > > consuming and one never knows where one will end up! What usually happens > > is that the more I know about a particular model, I end up wanting to add > > it to the collection! > > > > Jim H, While knee deep in ancient Walthers catalogs, I am also copying > > down information on the development and changes to the Walthers Baltic > > locomotive and will try to wrap up what I have found to date and see if i > > can get it posted here in the next few days. > > > > Think a ball game is on now, have to go and sit down and take a break, > > LOL! > > > > W. Jay W. > > > > > > > > > > From: Richard White <toytrain13@> > > To: Jim Heckard <vintageho@yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2011 5:32 PM > > Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & > > Chronology > > > > > > > > Jay- Terrific! I've recently begun constructing what you label Phase IV > > and V cars. Your detailed chronology makes the history of these kits a lot > > chearer. Thanks- Richard White > > > > > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > From: the_plainsman@ > > Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 19:34:40 +0000 > > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology > > > > > > Correction! In paragraph 14 exchange the last sentence, "I have > > nominally labeled thesefirst embossed tinplate sided cars (without > > embossed rivets) "Phase III cars." > > with "I have nominally labeled these second generation tinplate sided cars > > WITH embossed rivets, "Phase III Cars". > > Sorry, no matter how many time one proofreads, there is always an error > > that rears its ugly head after "send' is clicked. The summary at the end > > is OK Jay > > > > > > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Jay" <the_plainsman@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Walthers Heavyweight Passenger Car Discussion & Chronology > > > > > > A few days ago I offered an off-the-cuff 45+ year chronology of the > > > Walthers Passenger car line without having my data at hand, so I went to > > > the notes and history I have drafted along with my mostly complete > > > library of Walthers catalogs from 1938-1950 and some from 1960 and later > > > and offer this brief chronology. (A summary appears at the end.) > > > > > > Wm. "Bill" Walthers always had a knack for spotting good smaller > > > manufacturers, buying them out and making improvements to those products > > > as part of his line. He began by purchasing Frank Taylor's > > > "Taylor-Made" HO line consisting of the Milwaukee Baltic locomotive and > > > a number of passenger and freight cars and Frank Taylor became an > > > employee for a time before becoming the editor of Model Railroader > > > magazine. > > > > > > Walthers 1938 HO Catalog, the earliest I have, describes the new > > > Walthers passenger car line as follows: > > > > > > "TAYLOR-MADE passenger cars are accurate to scale and the most realistic > > > HO models on the market. Car sides and sash are now made of Armite which > > > is tough and durable. Window and door openings are punched out clean, > > > belt rail and doors are depressed. Roof, floor and ends are made of > > > wood, milled to size. Diaphragms are made of folded paper with metal > > > rubbing plate. Details include: roof and underbelly details, diecast > > > steps, couplers, triple valve, generator and air brake cylinder. All > > > trucks come assembled. Paint, transfersand drawings included." > > > > > > Interesting to note the phrasing that "Car sides and sash are now made > > > of Armite;" does this mean that they were originally made of perhaps > > > plain card sides like the freight cars during Taylor's production or > > > possibly even the first year of Walthers production? > > > > > > In 1938 Walthers cataloged passenger cars in the 5600 series, with 13 > > > different types and 8 additional paint/decal variations, for a total of > > > 21 different kits. The CNW gas electric was also listed in the 5600 > > > series and it may be logically assumed for the present that it also had > > > Armite sides as the listing states, "Plan of construction and design of > > > parts is the same as for our passenger cars." For reason that will be > > > clear later, I have nominally labeled these "Armite" sided passenger > > > cars with wood ends, "Phase 1 cars." > > > > > > In his 1939 HO catalog (#3), Walthers dropped the references to the > > > "Taylor-Made" line and opened the passenger car page with this modified > > > quote, " Without a .doubt, the Walthers' line of HO passenger car > > > models are the most realistic miniature cars ever offered." The > > > description of materials is the same as the precious year, however, and > > > this also includes the gas electric. > > > > > > The 1940 Walthers HO Catalog announced the first major change in > > > passenger car construction with the introduction of embossed tinplate > > > sides and cast metal ends. > > > > > > Walthers states, "For some time we have been working on a redesigned HO > > > passenger car to get away from the use of armite sides and give the HO > > > cars some of the outstanding features of our O gauge line." He continued > > > below, "The features of these new cars include: highly detailed die cast > > > ends with lugs for attaching the roof and the floor, pressed metal sides > > > with panel doors and windows and embossed letterboard and belt rail. The > > > sides are channeled so they may be attached to the underside of the > > > floor and roof..." > > > > > > Eleven different types of cars were listed, now numbered in the 6600 > > > series. I have nominally labeled these first embossed tinplate sided > > > cars (without embossed rivets) "Phase II cars." > > > > > > In 1940, the CNW gas electric was still listed in the 5600 series but > > > the description was unchanged from previous years, "Plan of construction > > > and design of parts is the same as for our passenger cars." For now, it > > > will be difficult to conclusively say when the change from Armite to > > > tinplate side occurred, (Phase I to Phase II) but it might have been > > > concurrent with the regular passenger car change. > > > > > > The construction of 6600 series of Walthers passenger cars essentially > > > continued virtually unchanged from the 1940 catalog through the 1949 > > > catalog, though in that year there were now 21 different types. However, > > > in 1942 first mention was made that "Rivet effect is obtained by > > > applying paper overlay with scale embossed paper rivets." I suppose > > > that Walthers was feeling the heat from his competItors like Varney, > > > whose heavyweights featured finely embossed rivets on their sides. . > > > > > > Though it was sold with Phase II construction, namely cars now having > > > embossed tinplate sides, but without rivets similar to the 6600 > > > passenger cars, the CNW Gas Electric was still inexplicably numbered in > > > the 5600 series! > > > > > > 1950 saw the next major change in Walthers passenger car construction - > > > rivets! In the introduction to the Passenger car section, Walthers > > > states, " The new 7600 series of HO passenger cars (and the 7500 series > > > traction kits) are marvels for detail..." The caption next to an > > > enlarged photo of a portion of a car side notes the embossed rivets. The > > > top and bottom of the side was still "folded" to permit easy mounting to > > > floor and roof. Twenty-eight different car types and roof configurations > > > were cataloged. I have nominally labeled these first embossed tinplate > > > sided cars (without embossed rivets) "Phase III cars." > > > > > > In 1950, the CNW gas electric numbering was changed to the 6450 series > > > with a new matching trailer listed in the 7600 series. This is likely > > > when the riveted sided appeared, matching the changes in the regular > > > passenger line. > > > > > > The Walthers line continued through the 1950's without much change > > > to the passenger car line construction, with the notable exception of > > > the special "Pug" Passenger cars and the Shuttle Jack. However, new > > > window configurations were introduced in the regular passenger car line > > > based upon various prototypes. > > > > > > The 1960 Walthers HO catalog heralded the next major change in standard > > > passenger car construction which affected both the car sides and roof > > > profile and a introduced a new number series, the 7800's. First, the > > > sides had a "New straight design (not folded under at bottom) makes it > > > easy to detail the underbelly." "Goo" was promoted for assembly. > > > > > > The roof cross section was substantially changed as well, considerably > > > higher , quote, "to match the old J-C cars and present day models..." > > > The new roof part number was M381 while the old, lower profile, M-133 > > > was still available separately for those who wanted to match their older > > > Walthers cars. I have read somewhere that the original Walthers, AKA > > > Taylor-Made passenger cars were scaled 1/8" to the foot and not 3.5 mm. > > > Would that account for the fact that the Walthers roofs were always a > > > bit low in comparison to other scale dimentioned HO passenger cars? > > > > > > I have nominally labeled these "Phase IV cars." > > > > > > The early 1960's also saw many additional types of passenger cars, > > > such as the Favorite Prototype series, but construction technique and > > > material reflected that of the standard (not Pug) line, though in some > > > cases, special car ends (horse car) were made.. > > > > > > The last notable change to the standard line of Walthers passenger cars > > > occurred in the 1970's(?) When molded plastic roof sections were > > > made available. I would label them Phase V cars. > > > > > > While not a complete Walther's passenger car history, this > > > information, along with Don's detailed description of Walthers kit box > > > designs, will allow one to make a good estimate of when a particular kit > > > or model was manufactured over their 45+ year run. > > > > > > Summary - Walthers Passenger Car Construction (by catalog date) > > > > > > 1937(?)-1939; Armite (card or fibre) sides, wood roof floor and ends; > > > 5600 series, (Phase I) > > > > > > 1940-1949; Tinplated steel sides with top and bottom fold; no rivets or > > > with paper rivet strips; cast white metal ends; 6600 series, (Phase II) > > > > > > 1950-1959; Tinplated steel sides with top and bottom fold; with embossed > > > rivets; cast white metal ends, wood roof and floor; 7600 series, (Phase > > > III) > > > > > > 1960-?: Tinplated steel sides without bottom fold; with embossed rivets; > > > cast white metal ends, new high profile wood roof, floor; 7800 series, > > > (Phase IV) > > > > > > 1970's(?)-end: Tinplated steel sides without bottom fold; embossed > > > rivets; cast white metal ends, plastic roof, wood floor; 7800 series, > > > (Phase V) > > > > > > Please recognize that this information is not complete or final and > > > subject to revision as more information becomes available (or I am > > > corrected, lol!) . Walthers name (C) copyright Walthers. The > > > presentation of factual information, personal descriptions and > > > conclusions are (C) 2011 W. Jay Wanczyk. > > > > > > Whew! > > > > > > W. Jay W. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Attachment(s) from Jay Wanczyk > > > > 1 of 1 Photo(s) > > > > Crestline HO Motor Unit.jpg > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17265	From: Jay	Date: 8/22/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers HH thread WAS Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & Chron

Gareth, Will try to get clear photos up around weeks end, need a new digital camera, lol! W. Jay W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "rcjge" <jgpedwards@...> wrote: > > Re: [vintageHO] Re: Alco HH powering > > Hi Jay: > > Can you fire me a pic of your bronze "HH"? > > One of my fave switchers too. > > I was planning to round not the sides of the roofline but rather the nose at the top and sides to get the more customary look of the later models (prototype). My issue there as with many of us is the orthodoxy of it. You're right, Walthers actually say in #2 to break (round) the sides of the hood and roofline. Probably has to do with the edge being created by a mold to allow easier release. > > Anyway, I have to have that argument with myself. The advantage of using the Athearn or Varney power solutions is I'd have all wheel pick-up and power. I like the idea but it's then less vintage.... Hmmmmm, back to being a Vintage Train Heretic and apostate! :P If it's going to sit and be a; "yes that's a vintage model train"! then the original power trucks are the way to go... If I want to operate it, and if I understand correctly that the shell was sold separately from early on then I would likely be one of a hundred who used the Varney Switcher chassis to power it. That's a reformed view if not orthodox! ;) > > -Gareth > > > > > > On 21 August 2011 13:39, Jay <the_plainsman@> wrote: > > > > Hi Gareth, > > Lucky for you to get an original power truck. Do you know if it is 6 volt or 12 volt truck? Count the poles, (3 poles are 6 volt) and if 6 volt, do not apply more than 8 volts for breif periods!! Here is the link to the September 1946 edition of the atractive Walthers Alco HH plans and instructions that appear on HOSeeker: > > http://hoseeker.org/walthers/walthers6410alcodiesel1946.jpg > > Instruction paragraph #2 discusses rounding some of the edges and the plans indicate where with a small "R." As for as the prototype, only the first eight units had completely flat fronts with no rounded corners whatsoever like the Walthers model; only the sides to hood top were rounded, and of those eight original units, seven went to the Lackawanna. > > The Walthers cast lead Alco HH switchers were introduced in the 1941 Walthers HO catalog, published in April of that year. However, Walthers kept using the photograph of the smaller completely different sand cast bronze model though 1948. This gave many the impression that except for materials, both models were identical. > Finally in their 1949 catalog, an actual photo of the cast lead model was used. But in 1950, probably because the older photo was clearer, they went right back to using the 1938 bronze model photo, LOL! > > The original, slightly smaller sand cast bronze model (narrower hood, appx 1/2" shorter overall, different cab roof), was introduced in an ad in December 1938 Model Railraoder (as referred to in various 1939 Walthers ads). It was featured and described as made of bronze castings in their 1939 and 1940 catalogs. > > I do not have plans for either the original bronze version or the 1942 cast lead version. > > The Alco HH is my favorite prototype switcher, likely since I first saw them as a single digit kid from the back seat of the family car, working the Erie's yard leads in the late 1950's when we were going to the city (NYC) via the Holland Tunnel. Finding a cast broze model about 20 years ago at train show and buying it despite the fact that someone had tried to pry off the hood top with a crowbar or pound in tent pegs - I did not even know it was made by Walthers for sure - but took that leap of faith as a neat model to have, bought it and have been a vintage modeler and collector ever since. > > A wonderful, comprehensive soft cover guide to the prototype Alco HH switchers was published a few years ago by Withers and includes photos of at least one unit, usually more for every order ever built. > > https://secure.witherspublishing.com:7444/catalog/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=26&products_id=185&osCsid=cf0ca02bda0b1d1a1c45235ba023b929 > > It is pouring rain now, no grass to cut today! > > W. Jay W. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17266	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 8/22/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers HH thread WAS Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & Chron

Jay: So what about the "rounding" the nose/vintage conundrum? -Gareth On 22 August 2011 09:21, Jay <the_plainsman@...> wrote:   Gareth, Will try to get clear photos up around weeks end, need a new digital camera, lol! W. Jay W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "rcjge" <jgpedwards@...> wrote: > > Re: [vintageHO] Re: Alco HH powering > > Hi Jay: > > Can you fire me a pic of your bronze "HH"? > > One of my fave switchers too. > > I was planning to round not the sides of the roofline but rather the nose at the top and sides to get the more customary look of the later models (prototype). My issue there as with many of us is the orthodoxy of it. You're right, Walthers actually say in #2 to break (round) the sides of the hood and roofline. Probably has to do with the edge being created by a mold to allow easier release. > > Anyway, I have to have that argument with myself. The advantage of using the Athearn or Varney power solutions is I'd have all wheel pick-up and power. I like the idea but it's then less vintage.... Hmmmmm, back to being a Vintage Train Heretic and apostate! :P If it's going to sit and be a; "yes that's a vintage model train"! then the original power trucks are the way to go... If I want to operate it, and if I understand correctly that the shell was sold separately from early on then I would likely be one of a hundred who used the Varney Switcher chassis to power it. That's a reformed view if not orthodox! ;) > > -Gareth > > > > > > On 21 August 2011 13:39, Jay <the_plainsman@> wrote: > > > > Hi Gareth, > > Lucky for you to get an original power truck. Do you know if it is 6 volt or 12 volt truck? Count the poles, (3 poles are 6 volt) and if 6 volt, do not apply more than 8 volts for breif periods!! Here is the link to the September 1946 edition of the atractive Walthers Alco HH plans and instructions that appear on HOSeeker: > > http://hoseeker.org/walthers/walthers6410alcodiesel1946.jpg > > Instruction paragraph #2 discusses rounding some of the edges and the plans indicate where with a small "R." As for as the prototype, only the first eight units had completely flat fronts with no rounded corners whatsoever like the Walthers model; only the sides to hood top were rounded, and of those eight original units, seven went to the Lackawanna. > > The Walthers cast lead Alco HH switchers were introduced in the 1941 Walthers HO catalog, published in April of that year. However, Walthers kept using the photograph of the smaller completely different sand cast bronze model though 1948. This gave many the impression that except for materials, both models were identical. > Finally in their 1949 catalog, an actual photo of the cast lead model was used. But in 1950, probably because the older photo was clearer, they went right back to using the 1938 bronze model photo, LOL! > > The original, slightly smaller sand cast bronze model (narrower hood, appx 1/2" shorter overall, different cab roof), was introduced in an ad in December 1938 Model Railraoder (as referred to in various 1939 Walthers ads). It was featured and described as made of bronze castings in their 1939 and 1940 catalogs. > > I do not have plans for either the original bronze version or the 1942 cast lead version. > > The Alco HH is my favorite prototype switcher, likely since I first saw them as a single digit kid from the back seat of the family car, working the Erie's yard leads in the late 1950's when we were going to the city (NYC) via the Holland Tunnel. Finding a cast broze model about 20 years ago at train show and buying it despite the fact that someone had tried to pry off the hood top with a crowbar or pound in tent pegs - I did not even know it was made by Walthers for sure - but took that leap of faith as a neat model to have, bought it and have been a vintage modeler and collector ever since. > > A wonderful, comprehensive soft cover guide to the prototype Alco HH switchers was published a few years ago by Withers and includes photos of at least one unit, usually more for every order ever built. > > https://secure.witherspublishing.com:7444/catalog/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=26&products_id=185&osCsid=cf0ca02bda0b1d1a1c45235ba023b929 > > It is pouring rain now, no grass to cut today! > > W. Jay W. > -- "Clear Eyes, Full Heart, Can't Lose!"

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17267	From: cwrailman	Date: 8/22/2011
Subject: Re: Little Japanese switcher

Nice little engine. If it was me I would install one of those small flat can motors, or better yet a gear reduction motor into the hooded engine compartment and use a NWSL 28:1 gear box on the back axle with the gear box cover shaved to clear the track due to those small dia. drivers. That would improve the operational characteristics. Then add a few exterior details and a crew and it would be a great yard switcher or logging engine. The possibilities are endless. Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > > > > > > I found a couple of minutes to strip the green paint from the > body of the little switcher I got off eBay. Fixed the separated seam on > the back left side of the cab. Lube, oiled and adjusted motor and gear > mesh. Since I have no idea if this ever had a factory painted scheme > with decals I will polish up the brass body , assembly it to the frame, > add the couplers and set it on the shelf. > > A neat little piece and something a little different > > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17268	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 8/23/2011
Subject: Heresy

Attachments : MNR 108-108B.jpg With the discussion lately about what's "vintage" and what isn't, here's my own latest project to curl the toes of the hard core collector <G>. A couple weeks ago this was two Revell NW-2's. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery

@@attachment@@

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17269	From: nvrr49	Date: 8/24/2011
Subject: Re: Heresy

Love it! Kent in KC --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > With the discussion lately about what's "vintage" and what isn't, here's my > own latest project to curl the toes of the hard core collector <G>. > > A couple weeks ago this was two Revell NW-2's. > > Don > > Don Dellmann > don.dellmann@... > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ > http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction > Owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17270	From: rcjge	Date: 8/24/2011
Subject: Re: Heresy

Geez Don, What did those poor little souls do to you!? ;) -Gareth

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17271	From: RalphB	Date: 8/24/2011
Subject: Re: Heresy

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Don Dellmann wrote: > > A couple weeks ago this was two Revell NW-2's. > ------------------------------ To be a true TR-2 set you'd have to blank the steps at the B end of the calf and the handrails would wrap around the corners there. Photos show that even the TR-2Bs that the BRC modified to having couplers at both ends did not get steps at the B end. No, I'm not a rivet counter; I just happen to have started to modify an Athearn SW-7b into a TR-4b. Project is about 95% complete. Ralph Balfoort

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17272	From: roger	Date: 8/24/2011
Subject: Re: Heresy

Looks good Don, hope to do one eventually. Roger Aultman --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > With the discussion lately about what's "vintage" and what isn't, here's my > own latest project to curl the toes of the hard core collector <G>. > > A couple weeks ago this was two Revell NW-2's. > > Don > > Don Dellmann > don.dellmann@... > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ > http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction > Owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17273	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 8/24/2011
Subject: Re: Heresy

----- Original Message ----- From: "rcjge" <jgpedwards@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2011 6:22 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Heresy > Geez Don, What did those poor little souls do to you!? ;) > > -Gareth They made the mistake of instead of being "SW-7's" like Revell advertised, instead they were very nice little phase II NW-2's (the Varney unit is a pre-war "Phase I" NW-2). Then they compounded the crime by having a removable cab that the short hood from an Athearn calf unit was almost a perfect fit. Result, a credible copy of a TR-2. I had actually done this once before back around 1970 with a set that I painted Milwaukee Road, they were among the models that I really regretted selling after one of my "purges". (I used to change prototypes and eras a lot, this particular time I was switching over to a layout based on Continental prototypes. Did you know that you could replace the wheels in Marklin freight cars with 36" kadees to run on 2 rail DC?) Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17274	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 8/24/2011
Subject: Re: Heresy

----- Original Message ----- From: "RalphB" <Alpvalsys@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2011 7:22 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Heresy > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Don Dellmann wrote: >> >> A couple weeks ago this was two Revell NW-2's. >> > ------------------------------ > To be a true TR-2 set you'd have to blank the steps at the B end of the > calf and the handrails would wrap around the corners there. Photos show > that even the TR-2Bs that the BRC modified to having couplers at both ends > did not get steps at the B end. > > No, I'm not a rivet counter; I just happen to have started to modify an > Athearn SW-7b into a TR-4b. Project is about 95% complete. > > Ralph Balfoort I'll have to look into that. Handrails are easily changed. As far as the Athearn, I thought was supposed to be a TR-4 to begin with. :-( Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17275	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 8/24/2011
Subject: Re: Heresy

Hey Don: oh well! I agree about the Varney being a Ph1 NW2 it being a two step hood as I call it. ost people of course say it's an SW12/1500 etc.! -Gareth On 24 August 2011 18:27, Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote:   ----- Original Message ----- From: "rcjge" <jgpedwards@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2011 6:22 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Heresy > Geez Don, What did those poor little souls do to you!? ;) > > -Gareth They made the mistake of instead of being "SW-7's" like Revell advertised, instead they were very nice little phase II NW-2's (the Varney unit is a pre-war "Phase I" NW-2). Then they compounded the crime by having a removable cab that the short hood from an Athearn calf unit was almost a perfect fit. Result, a credible copy of a TR-2. I had actually done this once before back around 1970 with a set that I painted Milwaukee Road, they were among the models that I really regretted selling after one of my "purges". (I used to change prototypes and eras a lot, this particular time I was switching over to a layout based on Continental prototypes. Did you know that you could replace the wheels in Marklin freight cars with 36" kadees to run on 2 rail DC?) Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery -- "Clear Eyes, Full Heart, Can't Lose!"

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17276	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 8/24/2011
Subject: Re: Heresy

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm........... -Gareth On 24 August 2011 18:30, Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote:   As far as the Athearn, I thought was supposed to be a TR-4 to begin with. :-( Don

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17277	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 8/25/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Lil' Raskal "Wreck-proof Train"

Hi Jay: Haven't come across the box with my Lil Raskal set but I'm bound to over the next few days. -Gareth On 1 August 2011 09:24, Jay <the_plainsman@...> wrote:   Hi Gareth, All, Though not a set collector, I noticed that you have several photos of the Varney produced Lil' Raskal set you want to sell and I have a information question on the type of drive the locomotive uses. It appears to have only two wheelsets, (which is common to the rest of the Lil' Raskal cars), but it also appears that the locomotive wheelsets mav have a rubber band drive as the axles have drums on them. Is my guess correct? I found one of those Raskal gondolas on the proverbial $3 train show table a few years back and fist picked it up because of those nutty, but unique yellow plastic NMRA couplers (not metal loops as stated in the Varney Guide). I then noticed the substantial, hardened steel channel that served as both the underframe and sideframe, and how solid the steel axle wheelsets were (and still am impressed how well they roll). They were certainly kid-resistant, if not totally kid proof, LOL! W. Jay W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "rcjge" <jgpedwards@...> wrote: > > Hey Guys: > > Started a folder in Photo's labelled 4 Sale-Gareth for some stuff I'm selling. If interested please note I'm in Canada so the shipping is higher, however I will be travelling to to NY in the next while a can ship from there if speed does not concern you... > > Thanks, > Gareth > -- "Clear Eyes, Full Heart, Can't Lose!"

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17278	From: Jay	Date: 8/26/2011
Subject: Varney Lil' Raskal "Wreck-proof Train"

Thanks Gareth, No rush and thanks for remembering, it will be interesting to learn that information whenever you do dig the set out. W. Jay W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "J. Gareth Edwards" <jgpedwards@...> wrote: > > Hi Jay: > > Haven't come across the box with my Lil Raskal set but I'm bound to over the > next few days. > > -Gareth > > > On 1 August 2011 09:24, Jay <the_plainsman@...> wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > Hi Gareth, All, > > > > Though not a set collector, I noticed that you have several photos of the > > Varney produced Lil' Raskal set you want to sell and I have a information > > question on the type of drive the locomotive uses. It appears to have only > > two wheelsets, (which is common to the rest of the Lil' Raskal cars), but it > > also appears that the locomotive wheelsets mav have a rubber band drive as > > the axles have drums on them. Is my guess correct? > > > > I found one of those Raskal gondolas on the proverbial $3 train show table > > a few years back and fist picked it up because of those nutty, but unique > > yellow plastic NMRA couplers (not metal loops as stated in the Varney > > Guide). I then noticed the substantial, hardened steel channel that served > > as both the underframe and sideframe, and how solid the steel axle wheelsets > > were (and still am impressed how well they roll). They were certainly > > kid-resistant, if not totally kid proof, LOL! > > > > W. Jay W. > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "rcjge" <jgpedwards@> wrote: > > > > > > Hey Guys: > > > > > > Started a folder in Photo's labelled 4 Sale-Gareth for some stuff I'm > > selling. If interested please note I'm in Canada so the shipping is higher, > > however I will be travelling to to NY in the next while a can ship from > > there if speed does not concern you... > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Gareth > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > "Clear Eyes, Full Heart, Can't Lose!" >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17279	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 8/26/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Lil' Raskal "Wreck-proof Train"

Hi Jay: So you're thinking the Lil Raskal had a "belt" or "band" drive like an Athearn Hi-F, huh? I thought I remembered black drums around the two axles but I'll have to find it to be sure. Also I have a buyer so.... -Gareth On 26 August 2011 10:00, Jay <the_plainsman@...> wrote:   Thanks Gareth, No rush and thanks for remembering, it will be interesting to learn that information whenever you do dig the set out. W. Jay W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "J. Gareth Edwards" <jgpedwards@...> wrote: > > Hi Jay: > > Haven't come across the box with my Lil Raskal set but I'm bound to over the > next few days. > > -Gareth > > > On 1 August 2011 09:24, Jay <the_plainsman@...> wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > Hi Gareth, All, > > > > Though not a set collector, I noticed that you have several photos of the > > Varney produced Lil' Raskal set you want to sell and I have a information > > question on the type of drive the locomotive uses. It appears to have only > > two wheelsets, (which is common to the rest of the Lil' Raskal cars), but it > > also appears that the locomotive wheelsets mav have a rubber band drive as > > the axles have drums on them. Is my guess correct? > > > > I found one of those Raskal gondolas on the proverbial $3 train show table > > a few years back and fist picked it up because of those nutty, but unique > > yellow plastic NMRA couplers (not metal loops as stated in the Varney > > Guide). I then noticed the substantial, hardened steel channel that served > > as both the underframe and sideframe, and how solid the steel axle wheelsets > > were (and still am impressed how well they roll). They were certainly > > kid-resistant, if not totally kid proof, LOL! > > > > W. Jay W. > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "rcjge" <jgpedwards@> wrote: > > > > > > Hey Guys: > > > > > > Started a folder in Photo's labelled 4 Sale-Gareth for some stuff I'm > > selling. If interested please note I'm in Canada so the shipping is higher, > > however I will be travelling to to NY in the next while a can ship from > > there if speed does not concern you... > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Gareth > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > "Clear Eyes, Full Heart, Can't Lose!" > -- "Clear Eyes, Full Heart, Can't Lose!"

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17280	From: rcjge	Date: 8/26/2011
Subject: Lionel HO Erie Centercab Manufactured???

Hey Guys: Can someone please help me date my Lionel HO Erie Centre Cab? Trying to get a fix on when she was made? Thanks, Gareth Bradford-WG, Ont.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17281	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 8/27/2011
Subject: Re: Lionel HO Erie Centercab Manufactured???

Gareth,     According to the Greenberg guide to Lionel HO   the Erie Center Cab  No. 0545   had a 1959 type motor and frame, catalogued in 1961 separately and in set 5751.  In 1962  catalogued separately and in set 14013.                                                                                                                           Jim H n 8/26/2011 6:36 PM, rcjge wrote:   Hey Guys: Can someone please help me date my Lionel HO Erie Centre Cab? Trying to get a fix on when she was made? Thanks, Gareth Bradford-WG, Ont.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17282	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 8/27/2011
Subject: Re: Lionel HO Erie Centercab Manufactured???

Thanks Professor Jim! :) Ever helpful. -Gareth On 27 August 2011 10:33, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote:   Gareth,     According to the Greenberg guide to Lionel HO   the Erie Center Cab  No. 0545   had a 1959 type motor and frame, catalogued in 1961 separately and in set 5751.  In 1962  catalogued separately and in set 14013.                                                                                                                           Jim H n 8/26/2011 6:36 PM, rcjge wrote:   Hey Guys: Can someone please help me date my Lionel HO Erie Centre Cab? Trying to get a fix on when she was made? Thanks, Gareth Bradford-WG, Ont. -- "Clear Eyes, Full Heart, Can't Lose!"

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17283	From: topstokes	Date: 8/27/2011
Subject: Varney Consolodation Kit #2721

Good Afternoon, I have just recieved a kit of a Varney Consolodation, #2721 K. It is in original packaging with instructions and the parts breakdown. Because my primary interest is brass I have no desire to assemble it. If any one may be interested in this please contact me at my email address and I will forward photos and price information. Thanks. Top Stokes

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17284	From: rcjge	Date: 8/30/2011
Subject: Lionel HO Erie Centercab picture sought

Hey Fella's Do any of you have a Lionel HO Eris Centre cab? I need a picture of one with the shell off. My understanding is that the chassis motor/light combo is the dame one as the Husky of that generation. Can anyone help? Thanks, Gareth

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17285	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 8/31/2011
Subject: Lionel Center Cab

Attachments : IMG_7279.JPG IMG_7278.JPG IMG_7277.JPG Hi Gareth, Hope this helps. Don't want to take engine apart. Jim H

@@attachment@@

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17286	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 8/31/2011
Subject: Re: Lionel Center Cab [3 Attachments]

Hi Jim: I understand your reluctance. The side tabs have a habit of cracking around the retaining pins! Can you tell from looking in the cab if their is a headlight bracket taht rises into the cab, or have you put power to it to see if the light comes on... If I don't have the right chassis then the shell will become a candidate for a kitbash project.... And Jim as always I appreciate your eforts. -Gareth On 31 August 2011 10:39, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote:   [Attachment(s) from Jim Heckard included below] Hi Gareth, Hope this helps. Don't want to take engine apart. Jim H -- "Clear Eyes, Full Heart, Can't Lose!"

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17287	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 8/31/2011
Subject: Lionel Center Cab

Attachments : IMG_7283.JPG IMG_7282.JPG IMG_7281.JPG Gareth, Hope this helps show you the headlight set up. Let me know Jim H

@@attachment@@

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17288	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 8/31/2011
Subject: Lionel Center Cab

Attachments : IMG_7283_1.JPG IMG_7282_1.JPG IMG_7281_1.JPG Gareth, Try again .Something went wrong I think. Jim

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 17289	From: mslater@wi.rr.com	Date: 8/31/2011
Subject: Lionel HO Centercab

I have one, however it is packed away. It dose use the same hustler fram that lionel used, couplers however are mounted to the 44Ton body, not the Hustler frame. Also the shell looks funny on the shorter frame at this link is a copy of the lionel service manual for the said locomotive http://pictures.olsenstoy.com/searchcd31.htm?itm=1127 Mike Slater Lionel HO collector

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17290	From: rcjge	Date: 8/31/2011
Subject: Re: Lionel Center Cab

Hi Jim: Pics are fine clearly the light bracket is different, and that means mine is a Husky chassis FOR a Husky. Well in the sense of it's own headlight bracket. It means it's not original and that opens the door for kitbashing... Unless I find someone who wants to buy just the shell. I'll keep the chassis for a project.... -Gareth

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17291	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 8/31/2011
Subject: Re: Lionel Center Cab

Funny that you posted you may like to sell the Lionel centercab body. I don't know where my shell went to, it's just a shell I found ages ago. I'd really like to buy another shell for a project. They look like a Whitcomb to my eyes. Mike Bauers Sent from my iPhone On Aug 31, 2011, at 9:08 PM, "rcjge" <jgpedwards@...> wrote: > Hi Jim: > > Pics are fine clearly the light bracket is different, and that means mine is a Husky chassis FOR a Husky. Well in the sense of it's own headlight bracket. > > It means it's not original and that opens the door for kitbashing... Unless I find someone who wants to buy just the shell. I'll keep the chassis for a project.... > > -Gareth > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17292	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 8/31/2011
Subject: Re: Lionel Center Cab

Hey Mike: Well I'm in Canada but even so the postage would be pretty meagre... gotta make up my mind whether to part with it or figure a project myself. I'm actually "watching" one on ebay that's got a "But it Now" of around $59. Curious to see if it sells. It seems high to me but I've seen Tyco action accessories sell for $50 plus and a Rapido CPR Wide Vison Caboose sell for $129 and it's PLASTIC. I'll tell you Hobby means passions=poor impulse control! The only plastic I'll hang on to will be fairly recent models of Canadian Prototypes for a planned layout and some "Have Fun" kitbashes I want to do... Everything else will be vintage metal and some Layout specific Canadian Steam in brass. So make me an offer. If you have them I need end boards for a Lindsay Stubby.... I have the frame, wheels, motor & shell but no end (foot) boards.... -Gareth On 31 August 2011 22:29, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote:   Funny that you posted you may like to sell the Lionel centercab body. I don't know where my shell went to, it's just a shell I found ages ago. I'd really like to buy another shell for a project. They look like a Whitcomb to my eyes. Mike Bauers Sent from my iPhone On Aug 31, 2011, at 9:08 PM, "rcjge" <jgpedwards@...> wrote: > Hi Jim: > > Pics are fine clearly the light bracket is different, and that means mine is a Husky chassis FOR a Husky. Well in the sense of it's own headlight bracket. > > It means it's not original and that opens the door for kitbashing... Unless I find someone who wants to buy just the shell. I'll keep the chassis for a project.... > > -Gareth > > > -- "Clear Eyes, Full Heart, Can't Lose!"

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17293	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 8/31/2011
Subject: Re: Lionel Center Cab

I'm sorry, I have nothing of the Stubby. I'm just not good at stating a price for the shell. How about throwing in some bartering on my end?? What I want is to power some of those shells with new Bachmann 44-70 Tonner drives. So my project is to cast several duplicates from an original. How about you suggest a price and I send you four duplicate shells as part of the exchange??? Molds to be completed in a couple of weeks with duplicates ready about two months from now as a comfortable target leaving room for any trouble shooting that might arise. I'm thinking of six to eight of them for myself. If I need to tempt you even more on this idea, I recently got one of the quite vintage Mantua/Tyco 1950's streamliner locomotive shells. About two to three months from now; would you like a copy ?????? If you haven't seen one, it looks like they used a preproduction artists rendering to design the model as what was a proposed GMC Aerotrain. You properly power it with the front 2/3's of an Athearn SW chassis with Flexicoil side frames, using a single idler axle to the rear of the engine. (I actually bought one, misplaced it, and was lucky enough to get a second one about three weeks later) I almost got the matching articulated Talgo car set for it. But wasn't the winner for it. I'm considering a few ways to make that car set, instead. Mike Bauers Sent from my iPhone On Aug 31, 2011, at 9:41 PM, "J. Gareth Edwards" <jgpedwards@...> wrote: Hey Mike: Well I'm in Canada but even so the postage would be pretty meagre... gotta make up my mind whether to part with it or figure a project myself. I'm actually "watching" one on ebay that's got a "But it Now" of around $59. Curious to see if it sells. It seems high to me but I've seen Tyco action accessories sell for $50 plus and a Rapido CPR Wide Vison Caboose sell for $129 and it's PLASTIC. I'll tell you Hobby means passions=poor impulse control! The only plastic I'll hang on to will be fairly recent models of Canadian Prototypes for a planned layout and some "Have Fun" kitbashes I want to do... Everything else will be vintage metal and some Layout specific Canadian Steam in brass. So make me an offer. If you have them I need end boards for a Lindsay Stubby.... I have the frame, wheels, motor & shell but no end (foot) boards.... -Gareth On 31 August 2011 22:29, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote:   Funny that you posted you may like to sell the Lionel centercab body. I don't know where my shell went to, it's just a shell I found ages ago. I'd really like to buy another shell for a project. They look like a Whitcomb to my eyes. Mike Bauers Sent from my iPhone On Aug 31, 2011, at 9:08 PM, "rcjge" <jgpedwards@...> wrote: > Hi Jim: > > Pics are fine clearly the light bracket is different, and that means mine is a Husky chassis FOR a Husky. Well in the sense of it's own headlight bracket. > > It means it's not original and that opens the door for kitbashing... Unless I find someone who wants to buy just the shell. I'll keep the chassis for a project.... > > -Gareth

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17294	From: rcjge	Date: 9/1/2011
Subject: Re: Lionel Center Cab

Hey Mike: Reply via email.... -Gareth --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote: > > I'm sorry, I have nothing of the Stubby. > > I'm just not good at stating a price for the shell. How about throwing in some bartering on my end?? > > What I want is to power some of those shells with new Bachmann 44-70 Tonner drives. So my project is to cast several duplicates from an original. > > How about you suggest a price and I send you four duplicate shells as part of the exchange??? Molds to be completed in a couple of weeks with duplicates ready about two months from now as a comfortable target leaving room for any trouble shooting that might arise. I'm thinking of six to eight of them for myself. > > If I need to tempt you even more on this idea, I recently got one of the quite vintage Mantua/Tyco 1950's streamliner locomotive shells. About two to three months from now; would you like a copy ?????? If you haven't seen one, it looks like they used a preproduction artists rendering to design the model as what was a proposed GMC Aerotrain. You properly power it with the front 2/3's of an Athearn SW chassis with Flexicoil side frames, using a single idler axle to the rear of the engine. > > (I actually bought one, misplaced it, and was lucky enough to get a second one about three weeks later) > > I almost got the matching articulated Talgo car set for it. But wasn't the winner for it. I'm considering a few ways to make that car set, instead. > > > Mike Bauers

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17295	From: Richard White	Date: 9/9/2011
Subject: old Walthers passenger kits roof ducts

Hello All- I'm slightly befuddled by some of the instruction sheets for vintage Walthers heavyweight coach and Pullman cars. An optional air-conditioning duct is shown on the plan sheet, for ONE side of the monitor roof only. Only one wood piece for a duct is included in each kit. I seem to recall, however, that the ducts were typically installed on BOTH sides of the monitor roof. Can anyone help me on this. Regards- Richard White

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17296	From: Charles	Date: 9/9/2011
Subject: Re: old Walthers passenger kits roof ducts

I think it depends on the car arrangement and if there is a need for a full length duct on each side, or a duct at all on a side. For example, in a car full of bedrooms, or mostly bedrooms, one side of the car is just and aisle and it isn't worth air conditioning it. Sometimes you just see a partial duct on one side as that is needed to provide air conditioning to part of the car where another part of that side doesn't need it. Chuck Kinzer --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Richard White" <toytrain13@...> wrote: > > Hello All- I'm slightly befuddled by some of the instruction sheets for vintage Walthers heavyweight coach and Pullman cars. An optional air-conditioning duct is shown on the plan sheet, for ONE side of the monitor roof only. Only one wood piece for a duct is included in each kit. I seem to recall, however, that the ducts were typically installed on BOTH sides of the monitor roof. Can anyone help me on this. > Regards- Richard White >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17297	From: Glenn	Date: 9/9/2011
Subject: Re: old Walthers passenger kits roof ducts

The ductswould blow A/C into the occupied parts f the cars--via the clerestory--would not blow in the corridors, "open space"cars like coaches and section sleepers would be adequately a/c'ed from the clerestory ducts. Ducts wouild be on the room side. gj -----Original Message----- From: Richard White Sent: Friday, September 09, 2011 10:05 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] old Walthers passenger kits roof ducts Hello All- I'm slightly befuddled by some of the instruction sheets for vintage Walthers heavyweight coach and Pullman cars. An optional air-conditioning duct is shown on the plan sheet, for ONE side of the monitor roof only. Only one wood piece for a duct is included in each kit. I seem to recall, however, that the ducts were typically installed on BOTH sides of the monitor roof. Can anyone help me on this. Regards- Richard White ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17298	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 9/9/2011
Subject: Re: old Walthers passenger kits roof ducts

----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard White" <toytrain13@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, September 09, 2011 12:05 PM Subject: [vintageHO] old Walthers passenger kits roof ducts > Hello All- I'm slightly befuddled by some of the instruction sheets for > vintage Walthers heavyweight coach and Pullman cars. An optional > air-conditioning duct is shown on the plan sheet, for ONE side of the > monitor roof only. Only one wood piece for a duct is included in each kit. > I seem to recall, however, that the ducts were typically installed on BOTH > sides of the monitor roof. Can anyone help me on this. > Regards- Richard White > Quoting Walthers: (and the unusual capitalization and punctuation is just as printed) "The Air Duct is applied over passenger occuoying spaces only. It is NOT installed over washrooms or passageways. In other words, Air Duct goes over Observation, Lounge, Coach-Seating, Pullman-Section-Compartment.-etc. spaces, Dining Salon area, but NOT over Vestibules, Washrooms, Passageways, or Kitchens." Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17299	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 9/9/2011
Subject: Re: old Walthers passenger kits roof ducts

And good luck getting it to fit seamlessly.     Art W   In a message dated 9/9/2011 7:42:42 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, don.dellmann@... writes: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard White" <toytrain13@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, September 09, 2011 12:05 PM Subject: [vintageHO] old Walthers passenger kits roof ducts > Hello All- I'm slightly befuddled by some of the instruction sheets for > vintage Walthers heavyweight coach and Pullman cars. An optional > air-conditioning duct is shown on the plan sheet, for ONE side of the > monitor roof only. Only one wood piece for a duct is included in each kit. > I seem to recall, however, that the ducts were typically installed on BOTH > sides of the monitor roof. Can anyone help me on this. > Regards- Richard White > Quoting Walthers:  (and the unusual  capitalization and punctuation is just as printed) "The Air Duct is applied over passenger occuoying spaces only.  It is NOT installed over washrooms or passageways.  In other words, Air Duct goes over Observation, Lounge, Coach-Seating, Pullman-Section-Compartment.-etc. spaces, Dining Salon area, but NOT over Vestibules, Washrooms, Passageways, or Kitchens." Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings:     Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join     (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email:     vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com     vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:     vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17300	From: Charles	Date: 9/9/2011
Subject: Re: old Walthers passenger kits roof ducts

I remember well trying to get the roof correct on Walthers cars. I was about 15 years old at the time and didn't have the skills I have now. (I'm not sure they are much better now, actually.) I now consider assembling and painting a Walthers passenger as sort of a right of passage in this hobby. Perhaps the NMRA MMR should have a section for just that: "Successfully built Walthers wood and metal passenger car. Extra points if using Walthers GOO and none shows. Chuck Kinzer --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, luvprr@... wrote: > > And good luck getting it to fit seamlessly. > > > Art W > > > In a message dated 9/9/2011 7:42:42 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > don.dellmann@... writes: > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Richard White" <toytrain13@...> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, September 09, 2011 12:05 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] old Walthers passenger kits roof ducts > > > > Hello All- I'm slightly befuddled by some of the instruction sheets for > > vintage Walthers heavyweight coach and Pullman cars. An optional > > air-conditioning duct is shown on the plan sheet, for ONE side of the > > monitor roof only. Only one wood piece for a duct is included in each > kit. > > I seem to recall, however, that the ducts were typically installed on > BOTH > > sides of the monitor roof. Can anyone help me on this. > > Regards- Richard White > > > > Quoting Walthers: (and the unusual capitalization and punctuation is > just > as printed) > > "The Air Duct is applied over passenger occuoying spaces only. It is NOT > installed over washrooms or passageways. In other words, Air Duct goes > over > Observation, Lounge, Coach-Seating, Pullman-Section-Compartment.-etc. > spaces, Dining Salon area, but NOT over Vestibules, Washrooms, > Passageways, > or Kitchens." > > Don > > Don Dellmann > don.dellmann@... > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ > http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction > Owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17301	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 9/9/2011
Subject: Re: old Walthers passenger kits roof ducts

I wonder...... Might someone have a few inches of this ductwork molding I could obtain??? I've got a vac-form arriving and I'd like to fit the vac'd duct work to some vintage Walthers passenger cars I rescued some time ago. I want to restore them and the update to the added air conditioning duct work would be a nice updating to these older cars. The hollow vac-formed ducting should work well, compared to the original millwork. Thanks,  Mike Bauers Sent from my iPhone On Sep 9, 2011, at 6:45 PM, luvprr@... wrote: And good luck getting it to fit seamlessly.     Art W   In a message dated 9/9/2011 7:42:42 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, don.dellmann@... writes: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard White" <toytrain13@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, September 09, 2011 12:05 PM Subject: [vintageHO] old Walthers passenger kits roof ducts > Hello All- I'm slightly befuddled by some of the instruction sheets for > vintage Walthers heavyweight coach and Pullman cars. An optional > air-conditioning duct is shown on the plan sheet, for ONE side of the > monitor roof only. Only one wood piece for a duct is included in each kit. > I seem to recall, however, that the ducts were typically installed on BOTH > sides of the monitor roof. Can anyone help me on this. > Regards- Richard White > Quoting Walthers:  (and the unusual  capitalization and punctuation is just as printed) "The Air Duct is applied over passenger occuoying spaces only.  It is NOT installed over washrooms or passageways.  In other words, Air Duct goes over Observation, Lounge, Coach-Seating, Pullman-Section-Compartment.-etc. spaces, Dining Salon area, but NOT over Vestibules, Washrooms, Passageways, or Kitchens." Don

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17302	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 9/9/2011
Subject: Re: old Walthers passenger kits roof ducts

How long a piece do you need, and which one? The duct for the plastic roofs is different than the one for the wood roofs. Don ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Bauers" <mwbauers55@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, September 09, 2011 7:22 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] old Walthers passenger kits roof ducts I wonder...... Might someone have a few inches of this ductwork molding I could obtain??? I've got a vac-form arriving and I'd like to fit the vac'd duct work to some vintage Walthers passenger cars I rescued some time ago. I want to restore them and the update to the added air conditioning duct work would be a nice updating to these older cars. The hollow vac-formed ducting should work well, compared to the original millwork. Thanks, Mike Bauers Sent from my iPhone On Sep 9, 2011, at 6:45 PM, luvprr@... wrote: > > > And good luck getting it to fit seamlessly. > > > Art W > > In a message dated 9/9/2011 7:42:42 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > don.dellmann@... writes: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Richard White" <toytrain13@...> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, September 09, 2011 12:05 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] old Walthers passenger kits roof ducts > > > > Hello All- I'm slightly befuddled by some of the instruction sheets for > > vintage Walthers heavyweight coach and Pullman cars. An optional > > air-conditioning duct is shown on the plan sheet, for ONE side of the > > monitor roof only. Only one wood piece for a duct is included in each > > kit. > > I seem to recall, however, that the ducts were typically installed on > > BOTH > > sides of the monitor roof. Can anyone help me on this. > > Regards- Richard White > > > > Quoting Walthers: (and the unusual capitalization and punctuation is > just > as printed) > > "The Air Duct is applied over passenger occuoying spaces only. It is NOT > installed over washrooms or passageways. In other words, Air Duct goes > over > Observation, Lounge, Coach-Seating, Pullman-Section-Compartment.-etc. > spaces, Dining Salon area, but NOT over Vestibules, Washrooms, > Passageways, > or Kitchens." > > Don

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17303	From: Denny Anspach	Date: 9/10/2011
Subject: Re: old Walthers passenger kits roof ducts

The pattern of the duct work was first determined by being only over critical passenger spaces, not aisles, as has been amply explained. However, this was only a basic requirement, and in fact Pullman, and/or the many railroads who installed the ductwork themselves over the years (with Pullman's permission) installed ductwork that varied in extent and shape all over the map. One would have to refer to specific photos to get it absolutely correct- if that is important. As for fit: I always found the Walthers ductwork to fit quite well, and quite easily. The ductwork is specific for the two wood roofs, and they do not mix. I never ever used GOO, and one should not now (white glue is best). The ends of the ductwork can be finished off very nicely with wood putty (Squadron, these days). The sanded finished and grain-filled painted product can look very, very good. Denny Denny S. Anspach, MD Okoboji, Iowa

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17304	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 9/10/2011
Subject: Re: old Walthers passenger kits roof ducts

Denny, I appreciate your thinking on the ductwork business, and perhaps the piece I received in my Walthers kit a while back was an "end-o-day" (phrase taken from the glass-blowing people) result of Walthers closing down that line of product, but there would have been no way that my particular piece of wood would "fit well and quite easily" (Perhaps it was originally intended to be one of the other roofs of which you mention). A person would have to have some piece of machinery to get the grooves of the wood roof and the awkward piece which they gave me to match that well. After figuring that this was a typical case of the times of throwing stuff at the modeler and letting them deal with as best they could (as in balsa wood blocks in Cleveland model airplane kits and others), I finally bought ward vents from Kit Bits as a substitute, and they looked fine. The HO passengers would simply have to sweat it in this case if necessary.   As for GOO, I use that and white glue both and find that GOO works great on almost any surface as long as you know what you're doing with it. I like the way it grips early while still giving you the option of moving the pieces into optimal position. I have never had trouble with it on wood surfaces and know how to use it without it overflowing and causing those kinds of problems. The fact that white glue dries more or less clearly is certainly a trade-off in some situations.   I do agree that your Squadron putty is nice to work with along with the fact that in any case one can produce a very nice model that looks very, very good in the end if you have the skills and time to do it right.   Art W   In a message dated 9/10/2011 8:44:45 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, danspach@... writes: The pattern of the duct  work was first determined by being only over critical passenger spaces, not aisles, as has been amply explained.  However, this was only a basic requirement, and in fact Pullman, and/or the many railroads who installed the ductwork themselves over the years (with Pullman's permission)  installed ductwork that varied in extent and shape all over the map.  One would have to refer to specific photos to get it absolutely correct- if that is important. As for fit:  I always found the Walthers ductwork to fit quite well, and quite easily. The ductwork is specific for the two wood roofs, and they do not mix.  I never ever used GOO, and one should not now (white glue is best).  The ends of the ductwork can be finished off very nicely with wood putty (Squadron, these days). The sanded finished and grain-filled painted product can look very, very good. Denny Denny S. Anspach, MD Okoboji, Iowa ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings:     Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join     (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email:     vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com     vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:     vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17305	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 9/11/2011
Subject: Re: old Walthers passenger kits roof ducts

Attachments : Zduct3.jpg Zduct2.jpg zduct1.jpg ----- Original Message ----- From: <luvprr@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2011 8:41 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: old Walthers passenger kits roof ducts > > Denny, > I appreciate your thinking on the ductwork business, and perhaps the piece > I received in my Walthers kit a while back was an "end-o-day" (phrase > taken > from the glass-blowing people) result of Walthers closing down that line > of product, but there would have been no way that my particular piece of > wood would "fit well and quite easily" (Perhaps it was originally > intended to > be one of the other roofs of which you mention). A person would have to > have some piece of machinery to get the grooves of the wood roof and the > awkward piece which they gave me to match that well. After figuring that > this > was a typical case of the times of throwing stuff at the modeler and > letting > them deal with as best they could (as in balsa wood blocks in Cleveland > model airplane kits and others), I finally bought ward vents from Kit Bits > as > a substitute, and they looked fine. The HO passengers would simply have to > sweat it in this case if necessary. (text deleted) The Walthers kits did NOT include the air duct. These were always sold separately, so the one in your kit was put there by the previous owner. I've attached a few photos of how I applied the duct work to an 8 section pullman (PING Denny S., this is the one I just got from you) and a PRR Diner Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 17306	From: rcjge	Date: 9/11/2011
Subject: Anyone talked to Jay or Mike (Bauers)...?

Hey Gents: Anyone heard from either fella in a bit? Trying to get a hold of them but nothing in several days...? Thanks, Gareth

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17307	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 9/11/2011
Subject: Re: Anyone talked to Jay or Mike (Bauers)...?

----- Original Message ----- From: "rcjge" <jgpedwards@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2011 8:53 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Anyone talked to Jay or Mike (Bauers)...? > Hey Gents: > > Anyone heard from either fella in a bit? > > Trying to get a hold of them but nothing in several days...? > > Thanks, > Gareth Mike was on here a couple days ago. Write me off list Don

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17308	From: Mike	Date: 9/11/2011
Subject: Re: Anyone talked to Jay or Mike (Bauers)...?

Lately, I can't be reached by voice. Hordes from H'll will attack anyone that dares to use a cellphone at work, and it's so noisy I can't even hear it going off, and I'm almost never free enough to stop what I'm doing and answer it when it vibrates. It got so jammed at the job that several months ago they went to genuine 13-day workweeks, and about six weeks ago moved to continous workdays with no time off. I tend to go home and collapse after work. But I'm still around. Email with delays in my answering works for now. I'm at work now and will be home in an hour or so. I'm leaving soon........ What's up?? I'll be at my computer in about an hour. Mike Bauers, on the phone.,., --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "rcjge" <jgpedwards@...> wrote: > > Hey Gents: > > Anyone heard from either fella in a bit? > > Trying to get a hold of them but nothing in several days...? > > Thanks, > Gareth >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17309	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 9/11/2011
Subject: internet down.

To all members trying to get in touch with me the last couple of days my interenet service ( ATLANTIC BROADBAND ) has been down for days .Just got back on line this evening. Trying to catch up. To W Jay W I want to get back to you by tomorrow. Very interested in item you mention. Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17310	From: rcjge	Date: 9/12/2011
Subject: Suydam Building Kits

Hey guys: I think maybe this is a little OT but, Has anyone ever built the Suydam Northside Tool & Die Co. Kit? Do you remember what internal details were supplied with it? Machining equipment I mean.... Thanks, Gareth

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17311	From: Glenn	Date: 9/12/2011
Subject: Re: Suydam Building Kits

Back in the fifties, absolutely nothing. gj -----Original Message----- From: rcjge Sent: Monday, September 12, 2011 3:34 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Suydam Building Kits Hey guys: I think maybe this is a little OT but, Has anyone ever built the Suydam Northside Tool & Die Co. Kit? Do you remember what internal details were supplied with it? Machining equipment I mean.... Thanks, Gareth ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17312	From: Michael Bauers	Date: 9/13/2011
Subject: Re: Suydam Building Kits

At least two of the Suydam industries had a companion detail set to use for the interiors. I have one of those and it does not include any sort of machinery for details.I think it was more like stacks of cut tin plate for the receiving docks, things like the makings of pallets for them, and interior walls to assemble around the internal dock. As best as I can recall for now. I think I acquired Faller detailed machines for the Suydam building. Mike Bauers On Sep 13, 2011, at 1:34 AM, Glenn wrote: > Back in the fifties, absolutely nothing. gj > > -----Original Message----- > From: rcjge > > Hey guys: > > I think maybe this is a little OT but, > > Has anyone ever built the Suydam Northside Tool & Die Co. Kit? Do you > remember what internal details were supplied with it? Machining equipment I > mean....

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17313	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 9/13/2011
Subject: Re: Suydam Building Kits

Yes and No. The stock kit indeed contained nothing. The Interior was sold as a separate kit, as was the lighting. As far as what was actually IN the interior kit, that I can't help. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "Glenn" <glenn476@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2011 1:34 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Suydam Building Kits > Back in the fifties, absolutely nothing. gj > > -----Original Message----- > From: rcjge > Sent: Monday, September 12, 2011 3:34 PM > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [vintageHO] Suydam Building Kits > > Hey guys: > > I think maybe this is a little OT but, > > Has anyone ever built the Suydam Northside Tool & Die Co. Kit? Do you > remember what internal details were supplied with it? Machining equipment > I > mean.... > > Thanks, > Gareth > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17314	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 9/13/2011
Subject: Re: Suydam Building Kits

Building on what Mr. Bauers said, I bought a NOS Suydam corrugated metal furniture factory from the LHS a while back. It came with a bunch of wooden furniture pieces and spare stripwood. The instructions said something about putting it out and about the factory floor even. -Steve Neubaum --- On Tue, 9/13/11, Michael Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote: From: Michael Bauers <mwbauers55@...> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Suydam Building Kits To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, September 13, 2011, 7:26 AM   At least two of the Suydam industries had a companion detail set to use for the interiors. I have one of those and it does not include any sort of machinery for details.I think it was more like stacks of cut tin plate for the receiving docks, things like the makings of pallets for them, and interior walls to assemble around the internal dock. As best as I can recall for now. I think I acquired Faller detailed machines for the Suydam building. Mike Bauers On Sep 13, 2011, at 1:34 AM, Glenn wrote: > Back in the fifties, absolutely nothing. gj > > -----Original Message----- > From: rcjge > > Hey guys: > > I think maybe this is a little OT but, > > Has anyone ever built the Suydam Northside Tool & Die Co. Kit? Do you > remember what internal details were supplied with it? Machining equipment I > mean....

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17315	From: Wally Weart	Date: 9/14/2011
Subject: Re: Suydam Building Kits

I built the Suydam PE sub station kit years ago an it came with an interior. Certainly below today's standardsbut still very effective. Wally ======= Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. (Email Guard: 7.0.0.26, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.18320) http://www.pctools.com =======

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17316	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 9/14/2011
Subject: Re: Suydam Building Kits

Hi Wally: Compared to a typical structure kit today, not a higher end one how would you rate them, still fine but not very good? More a matter of what I can do with it.... I've seen Tyco kits (Pola?) look amazing when "massaged"! Best, Gareth "Clear Eyes, Full Heart, Can't Lose!"

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17317	From: 23weldon	Date: 9/14/2011
Subject: Re: Suydam Building Kits

Glenn - Suydam made an interior kit.  The material in the kit is entirely rough cut pieces of wood, cardboard and a few wires.  I have some decent scans of the instruction sheet from which machinery models can be constructed.  The material in the kit is entirely rough cut pieces of wood, cardboard and a few wires.  You should be able to duplicate the parts from those scans.  Anyone wants the scans contact me.  You'll need broad band email since the files are big. If you want better detail Alexander Machine tool castings are still available from Tomar and would be perfect for this model.  You'll still need to come up with a bandsaw and surface grinder. https://tomarindustries.com/asm.htm Scroll halfway down the page to Machine Tools.  They don't have a pic of the stamping machine but it will fit in this shop nicely. You may have a hunt to find a good model of the large lathe. SS LTD made one but I don't know about availability in their newly released line of their castings and kits. Western Scale Models also made a nice one; but no longer make the HO castings Rio Grande Models has one in HO but it may be too big as it is a model of a large machine you would find in an enginehouse. Ed Weldon

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17318	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 9/14/2011
Subject: Re: Suydam Building Kits

Attachments : Sub3.jpg Sub2.jpg Sub1.jpg ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wally Weart" <dim01521@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2011 8:26 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Suydam Building Kits >I built the Suydam PE sub station kit years ago an it came with an > interior. Certainly below today's standardsbut still very effective. > > Wally You mean like this? Don P.S., The dark blue parts were not in the kit, they are actually old Athearn F-7 weights Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 17319	From: Wally Weart	Date: 9/15/2011
Subject: Re: Suydam Building Kits

Nice work and I like the fact you have lit your building. I have the same kit and sanding sealer plus time turned out a more than acceptable interior. I didn't light mine and I use it as a power plant by adding Kibi boiler house and tall smokestack Wally ======= Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. (Email Guard: 7.0.0.26, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.18320) http://www.pctools.com =======

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17320	From: Wally Weart	Date: 9/15/2011
Subject: Re: Suydam Building Kits

I still like the older Suydam "paperboard" kits and while they lack the fine detail of current building kits, they are certainly more than acceptable. As the brick walls are embossed, they have some depth and the mortar lines are well done. I have also built a number of Suydam metal kits but I'm not a big fan of them. I have built a number DPM and laser cut kits but still like Suydam kits and have several to build for my layout. I'll take some pictures of a couple of my Suydam buildings and post them. Thanks!! Wally ======= Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. (Email Guard: 7.0.0.26, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.18320) http://www.pctools.com =======

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17321	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 9/15/2011
Subject: Re: Suydam Building Kits

Hi Wally; what about the metal kits didn't you like? -Gareth On 15 September 2011 11:04, Wally Weart <dim01521@...> wrote:   I still like the older Suydam "paperboard" kits and while they lack the fine detail of current building kits, they are certainly more than acceptable. As the brick walls are embossed, they have some depth and the mortar lines are well done. I have also built a number of Suydam metal kits but I'm not a big fan of them. I have built a number DPM and laser cut kits but still like Suydam kits and have several to build for my layout. I'll take some pictures of a couple of my Suydam buildings and post them. Thanks!! Wally ======= Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. (Email Guard: 7.0.0.26, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.18320) http://www.pctools.com ======= -- "Clear Eyes, Full Heart, Can't Lose!"

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17322	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 9/15/2011
Subject: Re: Suydam Building Kits

Some, if not most, older Suydam paper kits can still be had through Alpine Scale Models. In addition to the old Suydams I got from the hobby shop, the shop owner has been gettng Alpine Scale models kits. I bought the "Modern factory" kit, and it is very similar to the old Suydam kit, except for the color of the roof - the Suydam kit was a dark tuscan, while the Alpine kit is black. Also, there is a basic interior kit in the Alpine version, but the chairs are plastic, though the desks are still wood. I did interior detail the office, complete with a couple people, and used an overhead light. Looks quite nice when lit up on night runs! -Steve Neubaum --- On Thu, 9/15/11, Wally Weart <dim01521@...> wrote: From: Wally Weart <dim01521@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Suydam Building Kits To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, September 15, 2011, 10:04 AM   I still like the older Suydam "paperboard" kits and while they lack the fine detail of current building kits, they are certainly more than acceptable. As the brick walls are embossed, they have some depth and the mortar lines are well done. I have also built a number of Suydam metal kits but I'm not a big fan of them. I have built a number DPM and laser cut kits but still like Suydam kits and have several to build for my layout. I'll take some pictures of a couple of my Suydam buildings and post them. Thanks!! Wally ======= Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. (Email Guard: 7.0.0.26, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.18320) http://www.pctools.com =======

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17323	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 9/15/2011
Subject: Sampson

Attachments : IMG_7292.JPG IMG_7291.JPG IMG_7290.JPG IMG_7289.JPG IMG_7286.JPG Thanks to a real good friend and train buddy, WJAYW, I was able to add an engine to my vintage collection that I have wanted for a while. I wouldn't consider it "rare" but is hard to find. Other then seeing pictures I had only seen 1 completed model that was sent in as a picture to the HOSC&H-SIG for identification. Since I was looking for that model I happen to know what it was. It was made by Sampson as a rail car called the Silver Bullet. It was an aluminum parts kit that was sold in two versions. One in 1949 and one in 1950. The biggest difference I can see is the front nose piece. The 49 model had 5 individual windows. The 1950 version had one solid wrap around on it's front nose piece. The one sent to me and shown is the 1949 model. I have no way of knowing if the inside motor and drive is the same in both version. However something I didn't know and on the odd side is it is rubber band driven ( 2 bands ) The heavy axles, unlike the Athearn RBD that are straight across, have a slight concave shape to them. I'm sure as I rebuild the engine I will find other tidbits of information worth sharing. Thanks again WJAYW Jim

@@attachment@@

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17324	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 9/15/2011
Subject: Re: Sampson [5 Attachments]

I'd like to get a hold of WJAYW myself. I have a Walther's Diner ready to go for him, but no rely recently.... -Gareth On 15 September 2011 13:46, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote:   [Attachment(s) from Jim Heckard included below] Thanks to a real good friend and train buddy, WJAYW,

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17325	From: Rick Jones	Date: 9/15/2011
Subject: Re: Suydam Building Kits

On 9/15/2011 10:04 AM, Wally Weart wrote: > I still like the older Suydam "paperboard" kits and while they lack the > fine detail of current building kits, they are certainly more than > acceptable. As the brick walls are embossed, they have some depth and > the mortar lines are well done. I have also built a number of Suydam > metal kits but I'm not a big fan of them. I have built a number DPM and > laser cut kits but still like Suydam kits and have several to build for > my layout. I'll take some pictures of a couple of my Suydam buildings > and post them. I have a partially built Suydam interurban car barn on which I've stumbled to a halt. I managed to get the sides, ends and roof soldered together but I can't seem to generate enough heat from any of my irons to get the clerestory piece soldered on the roof peak. There seems to be just way too much metal there in those large roof sheets that's sucking all the heat out of even my largest iron. Have considered going to some sort of epoxy as an alternative for that but haven't given it a try yet. Oh yes, my largest iron is 80 or 100 watts IIRC. -- Rick Jones "I have always given it as my decided opinion that no nation has a right to intermeddle in the internal concerns of another; that every one had a right to form and adopt whatever government they liked best to live under themselves; and that if this country could, consistently with its engagements , maintain a strict neutrality and thereby preserve peace, it was bound to do so by motives of policy, interest, and every other consideration." -George Washington

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17326	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 9/15/2011
Subject: Re: Suydam Building Kits

----- Original Message ----- From: "Rick Jones" <r.t.jones@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2011 5:33 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Suydam Building Kits > On 9/15/2011 10:04 AM, Wally Weart wrote: >> I still like the older Suydam "paperboard" kits and while they lack the >> fine detail of current building kits, they are certainly more than >> acceptable. As the brick walls are embossed, they have some depth and >> the mortar lines are well done. I have also built a number of Suydam >> metal kits but I'm not a big fan of them. I have built a number DPM and >> laser cut kits but still like Suydam kits and have several to build for >> my layout. I'll take some pictures of a couple of my Suydam buildings >> and post them. > > I have a partially built Suydam interurban car barn on which I've > stumbled to a halt. I managed to get the sides, ends and roof soldered > together but I can't seem to generate enough heat from any of my irons > to get the clerestory piece soldered on the roof peak. There seems to be > just way too much metal there in those large roof sheets that's sucking > all the heat out of even my largest iron. Have considered going to some > sort of epoxy as an alternative for that but haven't given it a try yet. > Oh yes, my largest iron is 80 or 100 watts IIRC. > > -- > > Rick Jones I shouldn't admit this but I have the 2 track fiberboard one with the metal roof and I just left the clerestory off. :-( Actually the first metal kit I did was the three stall roundhouse which is probably the worst, because none of the corners are square! I use a 250 watt gun. The secret is lots of flux (I use "nocorrode" paste flux). and old fashioned solder. I don't care if you have an acetylene torch, if you try to build one of these with lead-free solder and water based flux, it AIN'T gonna go together. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17327	From: Rick Jones	Date: 9/15/2011
Subject: Re: Suydam Building Kits

On 9/15/2011 5:54 PM, Don Dellmann wrote: > I shouldn't admit this but I have the 2 track fiberboard one with the metal > roof and I just left the clerestory off. :-( > > Actually the first metal kit I did was the three stall roundhouse which is > probably the worst, because none of the corners are square! > > I use a 250 watt gun. The secret is lots of flux (I use "nocorrode" paste > flux). and old fashioned solder. I don't care if you have an acetylene > torch, if you try to build one of these with lead-free solder and water > based flux, it AIN'T gonna go together. I also have a large 2 heat Weller gun, rated something like 220/260 or 280 on the two settings. No luck with that either, probably because the tip just doesn't have sufficient mass to hold enough heat. -- Rick Jones "Children have a natural antipathy to books - handicraft should be the basis of education. Boys and girls should be taught to use their hands to make something, and they would be less apt to destroy and be mischievous." -Oscar Wilde

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17328	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 9/15/2011
Subject: Re: Suydam Building Kits

I would think an 80 watt would work, at least the ones I am familiar with, with wedge or diamond shaped iron tips.  If yours is a small pointed tip, then I can see why it won't work.  My 65 watt Weller (OLD) wedge shaped tip does some heavy duty soldering, including a boiler made of .025 brass sheet.  I did use a 250 watt leaded glass iron to solder the smokebox casting to the boiler shell of a Kemtron Mogul, but really, I feel that was overkill and should have used my 65 watt or pencil torch. The other thing you may try is a small pencil torch.  They do really well heating up heavy brass. Good luck and regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: r.t.jones@... Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2011 17:33:52 -0500 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Suydam Building Kits   On 9/15/2011 10:04 AM, Wally Weart wrote: > I still like the older Suydam "paperboard" kits and while they lack the > fine detail of current building kits, they are certainly more than > acceptable. As the brick walls are embossed, they have some depth and > the mortar lines are well done. I have also built a number of Suydam > metal kits but I'm not a big fan of them. I have built a number DPM and > laser cut kits but still like Suydam kits and have several to build for > my layout. I'll take some pictures of a couple of my Suydam buildings > and post them. I have a partially built Suydam interurban car barn on which I've stumbled to a halt. I managed to get the sides, ends and roof soldered together but I can't seem to generate enough heat from any of my irons to get the clerestory piece soldered on the roof peak. There seems to be just way too much metal there in those large roof sheets that's sucking all the heat out of even my largest iron. Have considered going to some sort of epoxy as an alternative for that but haven't given it a try yet. Oh yes, my largest iron is 80 or 100 watts IIRC. -- Rick Jones "I have always given it as my decided opinion that no nation has a right to intermeddle in the internal concerns of another; that every one had a right to form and adopt whatever government they liked best to live under themselves; and that if this country could, consistently with its engagements , maintain a strict neutrality and thereby preserve peace, it was bound to do so by motives of policy, interest, and every other consideration." -George Washington

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17329	From: tomvanhoy	Date: 9/16/2011
Subject: soldering

The other problem you may be running into on older metal is that there may be some surface oxidation. It must be clean to solder properly. The flux helps with that some, but not enough on older pieces. A little steel wool (000) may do the trick. You should also try tinning the spots you want to solder before you join them together and run the final bead. The next thing to check is your iron tip. If it is not shiny with a thin solder coating it should be. Use a sal ammoniac block or tinning block to clean it and recoat with solder. If there is too much crud on it the heat will not transfer properly to the metals. Hope that helps. Good luck, Tom

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17330	From: tom bell	Date: 9/16/2011
Subject: Re: soldering

If it's made from tinplate, then if you clean it too hard and take the tin coating off the surface of the steel underneath, it's much harder to get the solder to adhere to that. Sometimes the only was it to re-tin it using a  acidic flux and lots of heat, but it's very hard to neutralize all the acid and prevent corrosion afterwards. Tom On 16 September 2011 13:32, tomvanhoy <tomvanhoy@...> wrote:   The other problem you may be running into on older metal is that there may be some surface oxidation. It must be clean to solder properly. The flux helps with that some, but not enough on older pieces. A little steel wool (000) may do the trick. You should also try tinning the spots you want to solder before you join them together and run the final bead. The next thing to check is your iron tip. If it is not shiny with a thin solder coating it should be. Use a sal ammoniac block or tinning block to clean it and recoat with solder. If there is too much crud on it the heat will not transfer properly to the metals. Hope that helps. Good luck, Tom

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17331	From: Wally Weart	Date: 9/16/2011
Subject: Re: Suydam Building Kits

I didn't think they looked as realistic as other types of kit material. I learned to solder with these kits but even with some weathering, I was never pleased with the final results. The idea of using real metal to simulate metal was better, in my opinion, in concept than execution.  I'd be interested in the views of others, particularly with construction problems. Thanks!! Wally ======= Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. (Email Guard: 7.0.0.26, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.18330) http://www.pctools.com =======

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17332	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 9/16/2011
Subject: Re: Suydam Building Kits

I have one Suydam metal kit, the roundhouse.  I am thinking that I will probably assemble it, just for the experience, if I find a place on my layout.  I looked at the parts very well and am inclined to agree that maybe styrene is a better choice to simulate steel.  But, I suspect, with enough details added and proper paint and weathering, these could be used effectively on a layout. Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: dim01521@... Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2011 08:07:20 -0600 Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Suydam Building Kits   I didn't think they looked as realistic as other types of kit material. I learned to solder with these kits but even with some weathering, I was never pleased with the final results. The idea of using real metal to simulate metal was better, in my opinion, in concept than execution.  I'd be interested in the views of others, particularly with construction problems. Thanks!! Wally ======= Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. (Email Guard: 7.0.0.26, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.18330) http://www.pctools.com =======

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17333	From: trainm7	Date: 9/16/2011
Subject: painting Cary diesel shells

I have some Cary diesel shells for Hobbytown drives I am going to paint. I have painted my share of brass and zamac shells. just wondering if anyone has any suggestions for paint prep for the Cary lead shells. Any suggestion or ideas appreciated.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17334	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 9/16/2011
Subject: Sampson Silver Bullet

Well now that I finally got an engine I've been looking for a long time,Sampson Silver Bullet, I can't find plans for it. Anyone have a set. I'll pay. Again I thank WJW who found the engine, won the bid and knew I wanted the engine and offered it to me. Great Guy who I own a couple of bucks for shipping. Hadn't noticed how high it was Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17335	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 9/16/2011
Subject: Re: painting Cary diesel shells

----- Original Message ----- From: "trainm7" <RAILRON1@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, September 16, 2011 2:03 PM Subject: [vintageHO] painting Cary diesel shells >I have some Cary diesel shells for Hobbytown drives I am going to paint. I >have painted my share of brass and zamac shells. just wondering if anyone >has any suggestions for paint prep for the Cary lead shells. > Any suggestion or ideas appreciated. > I never did anything different than I would with a zamac shell. One thing I DID learn the hard way, I tried to bake the paint once with my "sun gun" movie lamp, and wound up 10 minutes later with a big hole melted in the side of an FT. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17336	From: Rick Jones	Date: 9/16/2011
Subject: Re: Suydam Building Kits

On 9/16/2011 9:07 AM, Wally Weart wrote: > > > I didn't think they looked as realistic as other types of kit material. > I learned to solder with these kits but even with some weathering, I was > never pleased with the final results. The idea of using real metal to > simulate metal was better, in my opinion, in concept than execution. I'd > be interested in the views of others, particularly with construction > problems. Well... I've always kind of preferred using wood to model wooden prototypes and metal to model metal prototypes. That's why I like all of these old kits we talk about here. Never cared a whole lot for plastic kits though admittedly I do have a number of them where there just aren't many metal kit versions of something, like tank cars. -- Rick Jones "The Constitution expressly and exclusively vests in the Legislature the power of declaring a state of war... The separation of the power of declaring war from that of conducting it is wisely contrived to exclude the danger of its being declared for the sake of its being conducted." -James Madison

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17337	From: Model RailRoad	Date: 9/17/2011
Subject: Re: Suydam Building Kits

When I first introduced (mid 70s) the HOMETOWN series kits, Suydam were virtually the only (metal or anything) kits of metal prototypes. Campbell's corrugated aluminum roofing was SCALE SIZED corrugation and sheet width. It could be applied to styrene, wood or card and it was used for the Markle Mill grain elevator kit, then the Cannery and other kits. It (the currugated Al) has since been "duplicated" by others and allows realistic metal kits. Easily painted, "rusted," "sooted" etc. Merle Rice --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> wrote: > > > I have one Suydam metal kit, the roundhouse. I am thinking that I will probably assemble it, just for the experience, if I find a place on my layout. I looked at the parts very well and am inclined to agree that maybe styrene is a better choice to simulate steel. But, I suspect, with enough details added and proper paint and weathering, these could be used effectively on a layout. > Regards, > Vic Bitleris > Raleigh, NC > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > From: dim01521@... > Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2011 08:07:20 -0600 > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Suydam Building Kits > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I didn't think they looked as realistic as other types of kit material. I > learned to solder with these kits but even with some weathering, I was > never pleased with the final results. The idea of using real metal to > simulate metal was better, in my opinion, in concept than > execution. I'd be interested in the views of others, particularly > with construction problems. > > > Thanks!! > > > Wally > > > > > > ======= > Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. > (Email Guard: 7.0.0.26, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.18330) > http://www.pctools.com > ======= >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17338	From: Mike	Date: 9/17/2011
Subject: Re: soldering

Hello, There is a wealth of model railroading soldering information on the Net from our English brethren, who have been solder assembling their locomotive and car "kits", which are basically scratchbuilding with the parts already cut out. Some of their advice includes using a lower melting point solder than we are used to, using a proper acid based flux, assembling with a series of tacks before running seams, and washing with warm soapy water, or an alkaline solution, after every soldering session. A couple of web sites with merchandise and advice are: Rickety Rails http://www.ricketyrails.com/ International Hobbies http://www.interhobmodels.com/ C+L Finescale http://www.finescale.org.uk/ Eileen's Emporium http://www.eileensemporium.com/ The first two are US companies, and the last two are English. Much of the instruction deals with etched brass and nickel silver kits, but the fundamentals are good for the tinplate soldering we are contemplating. The difference in using lower temperature solders (145 degrees C seems to be the most popular versus our usual solders which seem to melt at 188 to 224 decrees C) is very evident in a positive way. Hope this helps. V/R, Mike --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "tomvanhoy" <tomvanhoy@...> wrote: > > The other problem you may be running into on older metal is that there may be some surface oxidation. It must be clean to solder properly. The flux helps with that some, but not enough on older pieces. A little steel wool (000) may do the trick. You should also try tinning the spots you want to solder before you join them together and run the final bead. The next thing to check is your iron tip. If it is not shiny with a thin solder coating it should be. Use a sal ammoniac block or tinning block to clean it and recoat with solder. If there is too much crud on it the heat will not transfer properly to the metals. Hope that helps. > Good luck, > Tom >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17339	From: trainm7	Date: 9/18/2011
Subject: Re: painting Cary diesel shells

Thank you Don. I thought the zamac prep process would be ok just wanted to be sure there were no special considerations for the lead. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "trainm7" <RAILRON1@...> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, September 16, 2011 2:03 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] painting Cary diesel shells > > > >I have some Cary diesel shells for Hobbytown drives I am going to paint. I > >have painted my share of brass and zamac shells. just wondering if anyone > >has any suggestions for paint prep for the Cary lead shells. > > Any suggestion or ideas appreciated. > > > > I never did anything different than I would with a zamac shell. > > One thing I DID learn the hard way, I tried to bake the paint once with my > "sun gun" movie lamp, and wound up 10 minutes later with a big hole melted > in the side of an FT. > > Don > > Don Dellmann > don.dellmann@... > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ > http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction > Owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17340	From: Alfred Galli	Date: 9/18/2011
Subject: Vintage Model Railroader Magazines

I have two professionally bound volumes of Model Railroader that would be of interest to this group. The first cover June 1939 to December 1940. It is in excellent condition except for a single page which frayed at the edge. The book was bound by Julius Mack, Detroit, MI and is stamped Model Railroader 1940 in gold on the spine. This has the appearance of a true book not the common binders that Kalmbach sells now. The other volume looks the same and covers January 1941 through December 1941. I have enjoyed many interesting articles. For instance there is a lot of discussion about moving to DC power from AC. These are from the days when A.C. Kalmbach was the editor and Linn Westcott was the staff photographer. These books are historic in nature and will be a treasured addition to to your vintage collection. $75 each including shipping. Al Galli

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17341	From: Rick Jones	Date: 9/18/2011
Subject: Re: painting Cary diesel shells

On 9/18/2011 9:08 AM, trainm7 wrote: > Thank you Don. I thought the zamac prep process would be ok just > wanted to be sure there were no special considerations for the lead. What is the "zamac prep process"? I've built a number of Ulrich kits and I've never heard of any special preparation to be done on them before assembly versus other types of kits. -- Rick Jones "It is absurd to divide people into good and bad. People are either charming or tedious." -Oscar Wilde

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17342	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 9/18/2011
Subject: Re: painting Cary diesel shells

Pretty much the same as the brass prep process.  For zamac, I always clean off all flash and file the parts to make sure they fit right.  Screw everything together to ensure everything is correct.  In locomotives, you want to run them a bit.  Make sure all detail parts are fastened firmly, then wash everything very well in dish washing soap and very warm water.  When dry, soak the parts in a white vinegar bath for 30 to 45 minutes, rinse, and set aside to dry.  Do NOT touch them period.  Assemble any parts that need to be assembled prior to painting and use latex or nitril gloves to keep skin oils off of the parts.  Prior to a color coat, I always use a cheap auto primer.  I then paint using the paint of my choice.  Many modelers prefer Scalecoat for metal, but I have good succes with Polyscale also.  I am not very fond of the new Floquil formula, but do use it occasionally. Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: r.t.jones@... Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2011 09:41:11 -0500 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: painting Cary diesel shells   On 9/18/2011 9:08 AM, trainm7 wrote: > Thank you Don. I thought the zamac prep process would be ok just > wanted to be sure there were no special considerations for the lead. What is the "zamac prep process"? I've built a number of Ulrich kits and I've never heard of any special preparation to be done on them before assembly versus other types of kits. -- Rick Jones "It is absurd to divide people into good and bad. People are either charming or tedious." -Oscar Wilde

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17343	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 9/18/2011
Subject: New Additons to the Roster

Hi all! A friend of mine called me a week ago, he was at a flea market not far away, and said he found some old trains there. Unfortunatly I was away from home at the time working at a Boy Scout camp up North. Well, Dennis took me there today, and there was a seller that had tons of old trains. I brought about $200 in cash with me. Much of it was AHM and similar, but he had some vintage goodies too. For the $200 I got: Bowser 4-6-6-4 Challenger, minus tender, needs some details attached, that were present in the box. This cost $50 TWO ALCO Models T-6 diesels, one Pennsylvania, one Norfolk & Western. Look to be brand new, are brass, and have KMT mechanisms. $20 per unit. Mantua 0-4-0T die cast tank engine. Painted and unlettered. $10. Runs like a top. Six MDC die cast boxcars. One painted, unlettered (Paint is chipped somewhat), rest unpainted unlettered. No damage to any parts. Three with Youngstown doors, three with Superior doors. $20 for the lot. Pair of Mantua brass tank cars, early postwar judging by the thin axles on the trucks. $5 for both. On the non-vintage side, I got a pair of Rivarossi E-8 diesels, Amtrak phase I livery, plus six Con-Cor Superliners. $75 Not a bad haul at all! -Steve Neubaum

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17344	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 9/18/2011
Subject: Re: New Additons to the Roster

Sounds like an afternoon very well spent. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephen Neubaum" <computersystemrebuild@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, September 18, 2011 3:38 PM Subject: [vintageHO] New Additons to the Roster > Hi all! > > A friend of mine called me a week ago, he was at a flea market not far > away, and said he found some old trains there. Unfortunatly I was away > from home at the time working at a Boy Scout camp up North. > > Well, Dennis took me there today, and there was a seller that had tons of > old trains. I brought about $200 in cash with me. Much of it was AHM and > similar, but he had some vintage goodies too. > > For the $200 I got: > > Bowser 4-6-6-4 Challenger, minus tender, needs some details attached, that > were present in the box. This cost $50 > > TWO ALCO Models T-6 diesels, one Pennsylvania, one Norfolk & Western. Look > to be brand new, are brass, and have KMT mechanisms. $20 per unit. > > Mantua 0-4-0T die cast tank engine. Painted and unlettered. $10. Runs like > a top. > > Six MDC die cast boxcars. One painted, unlettered (Paint is chipped > somewhat), rest unpainted unlettered. No damage to any parts. Three with > Youngstown doors, three with Superior doors. $20 for the lot. > > Pair of Mantua brass tank cars, early postwar judging by the thin axles on > the trucks. $5 for both. > > On the non-vintage side, I got a pair of Rivarossi E-8 diesels, Amtrak > phase I livery, plus six Con-Cor Superliners. $75 > > Not a bad haul at all! > > -Steve Neubaum >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17345	From: joegideon	Date: 9/18/2011
Subject: Re: I need a part.

I have a couple of the old lead (S.P. prototype) 4-6-2s. I'd rather trade... Call me at (831)884-0828 Jim --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote: > > I'm in need of the motor worm for a a Varney Economy Pacific chassis. > > Can someone help on this? It's for a never finally assembled pairing > of the Varney Bronze Streamlined steamer superstructure and an > unpowered chassis. > > Getting the right worm gear will allow me to power it with the > original axle gear. > > Failing that happening, has anyone used a more modern gearbox on one > of these old Varney Economy Pacifics and liked the result? I'd like to > know what worked for that. > > I'm thinking of making a mold and casting weighted dups of the > superstructure to put on Mantua drives. It would be a kick to bring > two or more of those to the Big Club near me and run passenger trains > on several miles of scale tracks, using tenders much like the > Milwaukee Road S3 tenders if I don't find available big steamer Varney > tenders > > I'd still like to get the original Varney operational, I might keep it > in virgin metal, and let it's new sisters do regular operation. > > Thanks guys, > Best to ya, > Mike Bauers > Milwaukee, Wi >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17347	From: joegideon	Date: 9/18/2011
Subject: Varney and Others...

I am involved in a lot of areas of the hobby. I recently moved and hired several "helpers". I had to move over 300 brass engines in mostly HO, O and N scales. I also had some 35 'vintage' engines. Add this to hundreds of cars, structures and miscellaneous stuff and... Well, you9 get the picture. UNFORTUNATELY, not all those guys were exactly 'honest as the dayis,,, etc.'-and a couple things "walked-off"? And, like many, they apparently judged the value by the what? Right. The weight. Of the Vintage locos, most were in pieces. Except for a 4-6-2 and a 2-8-4 Berkshire, which they stole; the heaviest, right? It was just a standard, brass tender(embossed). I'd love to replace it- and have come close on eBay. Missed a kit last week by sleeping through the auction. Anyone out there have a Varney Berkshire ? I'll pay top price. I've started building a 5 X 9', using Tru-Scale milled roadbed. The pass. cars are old-time Walthers tinplate kits w/Ulrich, Athearn Metal, Silver Streak and others for freight and MOW. Have a post-war no0n-streamline 4-6-4 and a Bowser K11 4-6-2(-and some Varney 4-6-2s)for pass. engines. MDC 0-6-0 and 2-6-2, I'll send photos! Purty cool! Jim Snyder (831)884-0828

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17348	From: rcjge	Date: 9/19/2011
Subject: Varney Streamlined Steamer Shell what Chassis?

Hey Gents: Another posting yesterday about the Streamlined GG shell put me in mind of asking; What chassis best suits the Varney Streamlined Body? The only one that doesn't seem to is the MIkado it being typically freight and Streamliner's are largely "Varnish" related. I was thinking Northern or Mountain but.... Thanks, Gareth Bradford-WG, Ont.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17349	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 9/19/2011
Subject: Re: I need a part.

Varney Pacific and Hudson.                 Jim H On 9/18/2011 11:18 PM, J. Gareth Edwards wrote:   I realize there's no rule about it but what chassis was the Streamlined steamer shell meant to go over? Obviously not a Mike. I was thinking either a Northern or a Mountain.... -Gareth -- "Clear Eyes, Full Heart, Can't Lose!"

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17350	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 9/19/2011
Subject: Re: I need a part.

Hey Jim: No way a Varney 8 coupled would fit? -Gareth On 19 September 2011 10:25, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote:   Varney Pacific and Hudson.                 Jim H On 9/18/2011 11:18 PM, J. Gareth Edwards wrote:   I realize there's no rule about it but what chassis was the Streamlined steamer shell meant to go over? Obviously not a Mike. I was thinking either a Northern or a Mountain.... -Gareth -- "Clear Eyes, Full Heart, Can't Lose!" -- "Clear Eyes, Full Heart, Can't Lose!"

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17351	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 9/19/2011
Subject: Re: I need a part.

Hey Gareth,     I said a Varney Pacific ( 4-6-2  )and Hudson ( 4-6-4 )which are both 6 coupled  On 9/19/2011 10:55 AM, J. Gareth Edwards wrote:   Hey Jim: No way a Varney 8 coupled would fit? -Gareth On 19 September 2011 10:25, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote:   Varney Pacific and Hudson.                 Jim H On 9/18/2011 11:18 PM, J. Gareth Edwards wrote:   I realize there's no rule about it but what chassis was the Streamlined steamer shell meant to go over? Obviously not a Mike. I was thinking either a Northern or a Mountain.... -Gareth -- "Clear Eyes, Full Heart, Can't Lose!" -- "Clear Eyes, Full Heart, Can't Lose!"

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17352	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 9/19/2011
Subject: Re: I need a part.

Hey Jim: I should have used proper grammar. I meant; Is, there no way an 8 Coupled Varney chassis would fit? -Gareth On 19 September 2011 11:23, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote:   Hey Gareth,     I said a Varney Pacific ( 4-6-2  )and Hudson ( 4-6-4 )which are both 6 coupled  On 9/19/2011 10:55 AM, J. Gareth Edwards wrote:   Hey Jim: No way a Varney 8 coupled would fit? -Gareth On 19 September 2011 10:25, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote:   Varney Pacific and Hudson.                 Jim H On 9/18/2011 11:18 PM, J. Gareth Edwards wrote:   I realize there's no rule about it but what chassis was the Streamlined steamer shell meant to go over? Obviously not a Mike. I was thinking either a Northern or a Mountain.... -Gareth -- "Clear Eyes, Full Heart, Can't Lose!" -- "Clear Eyes, Full Heart, Can't Lose!" -- "Clear Eyes, Full Heart, Can't Lose!"

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17353	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 9/19/2011
Subject: Re: I need a part.

Gareth,    You have proper grammar I just read your note quick and took it wrong. Should have seen the question mark at the end of your sentence. My Mistake.             By the way I don't know an 8 coupled chassis that would fit but there might be a way to do it. The two I cited ( Pacific and Hudson ) are what Varney suggested.                                                                                                                            Jim H On 9/19/2011 11:28 AM, J. Gareth Edwards wrote:   Hey Jim: I should have used proper grammar. I meant; Is, there no way an 8 Coupled Varney chassis would fit? -Gareth On 19 September 2011 11:23, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote:   Hey Gareth,     I said a Varney Pacific ( 4-6-2  )and Hudson ( 4-6-4 )which are both 6 coupled  On 9/19/2011 10:55 AM, J. Gareth Edwards wrote:   Hey Jim: No way a Varney 8 coupled would fit? -Gareth On 19 September 2011 10:25, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote:   Varney Pacific and Hudson.                 Jim H On 9/18/2011 11:18 PM, J. Gareth Edwards wrote:   I realize there's no rule about it but what chassis was the Streamlined steamer shell meant to go over? Obviously not a Mike. I was thinking either a Northern or a Mountain.... -Gareth -- "Clear Eyes, Full Heart, Can't Lose!" -- "Clear Eyes, Full Heart, Can't Lose!" -- "Clear Eyes, Full Heart, Can't Lose!"

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17354	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 9/19/2011
Subject: Re: I need a part.

Hi Jim: Thanks. I was just thinking a consolie frame with a 4 wheel pilot truck, and a two wheel trailing.... I'd think you'd want 4 wheels up front to stay within the "speed" theme of the shell.... -Gareth On 19 September 2011 15:14, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote:   Gareth,    You have proper grammar I just read your note quick and took it wrong. Should have seen the question mark at the end of your sentence. My Mistake.             By the way I don't know an 8 coupled chassis that would fit but there might be a way to do it. The two I cited ( Pacific and Hudson ) are what Varney suggested.                                                                                                                            Jim H On 9/19/2011 11:28 AM, J. Gareth Edwards wrote:   Hey Jim: I should have used proper grammar. I meant; Is, there no way an 8 Coupled Varney chassis would fit? -Gareth On 19 September 2011 11:23, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote:   Hey Gareth,     I said a Varney Pacific ( 4-6-2  )and Hudson ( 4-6-4 )which are both 6 coupled  On 9/19/2011 10:55 AM, J. Gareth Edwards wrote:   Hey Jim: No way a Varney 8 coupled would fit? -Gareth On 19 September 2011 10:25, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote:   Varney Pacific and Hudson.                 Jim H On 9/18/2011 11:18 PM, J. Gareth Edwards wrote:   I realize there's no rule about it but what chassis was the Streamlined steamer shell meant to go over? Obviously not a Mike. I was thinking either a Northern or a Mountain.... -Gareth -- "Clear Eyes, Full Heart, Can't Lose!" -- "Clear Eyes, Full Heart, Can't Lose!" -- "Clear Eyes, Full Heart, Can't Lose!" -- "Clear Eyes, Full Heart, Can't Lose!"

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17355	From: Nelson	Date: 9/19/2011
Subject: Re: painting Cary diesel shells

My dad had one of those Sun Gun lamps, and I can attest to how hot they got! Not something you'd lay down while it was on. Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "trainm7" <RAILRON1@...> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, September 16, 2011 2:03 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] painting Cary diesel shells > > One thing I DID learn the hard way, I tried to bake the paint once with my > "sun gun" movie lamp, and wound up 10 minutes later with a big hole melted > in the side of an FT. > > Don >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17356	From: erieberk	Date: 9/19/2011
Subject: Re: I need a part.

Gareth, You realize that "there is no rule about it"? -- that the Varney Streamlined Steam boiler is meant to fit over any specific mechanism/chassis? Well, certainly not an 8-coupled Mountain as you suggest, as Varney never made a Mountain. As Jim points out, the Varney Streamlined Steam boiler was intended by Varney to fit the Varney Pacific drive and then later, the Varney Hudson drive -- both 6-coupled chassis'. I doubt very much that a 4-wheel truck could be installed on a Consol mechanism without getting in the way of the leading drivers, but since the Consol frame is too short to fit this boiler, the point is moot and immaterial. The Consol mechanism DEFINITELY will no fit. The Varney Northern frame is much too long, so this mechanism DEFINITELY will not fit. The Varney Mikado mechanism DEFINITElY should fit, but again, I really doubt there's space enough for a four wheel pilot truck -- aside from it being a very odd combination as far as Varney production goes. There would DEFINITELY be no collector's value for such a model as Varney never produced this model as such, nor never recommended it for such use. It would have parts only value -- considerable, but not nearly the value it would have if build to Varney specs. I question why you would choose to build such a model, except to see if it can be done. Ray Wetzel --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "J. Gareth Edwards" <jgpedwards@...> wrote: > > Hi Jim: > > Thanks. > > I was just thinking a consolie frame with a 4 wheel pilot truck, and a two > wheel trailing.... > > I'd think you'd want 4 wheels up front to stay within the "speed" theme of > the shell.... > > -Gareth > > > > On 19 September 2011 15:14, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > > > Gareth, You have proper grammar I just read your note quick and took it > > wrong. Should have seen the question mark at the end of your sentence. My > > Mistake. > > > > By the way I don't know an 8 coupled chassis that would fit but > > there might be a way to do it. The two I cited ( Pacific and Hudson ) are > > what Varney suggested. > > > > > > Jim H > > > > > > > > On 9/19/2011 11:28 AM, J. Gareth Edwards wrote: > > > > > > > > Hey Jim: > > > > I should have used proper grammar. I meant; *Is, there no way an 8 Coupled > > Varney chassis would fit?* > > > > -Gareth > > > > > > > > On 19 September 2011 11:23, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > >> > >> > >> > >> Hey Gareth, I said a Varney Pacific ( 4-6-2 )and Hudson ( 4-6-4 > >> )which are both 6 coupled > >> > >> On 9/19/2011 10:55 AM, J. Gareth Edwards wrote: > >> > >> > >> > >> Hey Jim: > >> > >> No way a Varney 8 coupled would fit? > >> > >> -Gareth > >> > >> On 19 September 2011 10:25, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > >> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Varney Pacific and Hudson. > >>> > >>> Jim H > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> On 9/18/2011 11:18 PM, J. Gareth Edwards wrote: > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> I realize there's no rule about it but what chassis was the Streamlined > >>> steamer shell meant to go over? Obviously not a Mike. I was thinking either > >>> a Northern or a Mountain.... > >>> > >>> -Gareth > >>> -- > >>> "Clear Eyes, Full Heart, Can't Lose!" > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> "Clear Eyes, Full Heart, Can't Lose!" > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > -- > > "Clear Eyes, Full Heart, Can't Lose!" > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > "Clear Eyes, Full Heart, Can't Lose!" >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17357	From: rcjge	Date: 9/20/2011
Subject: Re: I need a part.

Ray; A simple matter of thinking it would a "Striking" looking loco. That's all. -Gareth --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "erieberk" <erieberk@...> wrote: > > Gareth, > > You realize that "there is no rule about it"? -- that the Varney Streamlined Steam boiler is meant to fit over any specific mechanism/chassis? Well, certainly not an 8-coupled Mountain as you suggest, as Varney never made a Mountain. As Jim points out, the Varney Streamlined Steam boiler was intended by Varney to fit the Varney Pacific drive and then later, the Varney Hudson drive -- both 6-coupled chassis'. > > I doubt very much that a 4-wheel truck could be installed on a Consol mechanism without getting in the way of the leading drivers, but since the Consol frame is too short to fit this boiler, the point is moot and immaterial. The Consol mechanism DEFINITELY will no fit. > > The Varney Northern frame is much too long, so this mechanism DEFINITELY will not fit. The Varney Mikado mechanism DEFINITElY should fit, but again, I really doubt there's space enough for a four wheel pilot truck -- aside from it being a very odd combination as far as Varney production goes. There would DEFINITELY be no collector's value for such a model as Varney never produced this model as such, nor never recommended it for such use. It would have parts only value -- considerable, but not nearly the value it would have if build to Varney specs. I question why you would choose to build such a model, except to see if it can be done. > > Ray Wetzel

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17358	From: trainm7	Date: 9/21/2011
Subject: Re: painting Cary diesel shells

Victor`s reply describes the process exactly.In the 1970s? and beyond a lot of brass had a clear finish the you could paint over the only treatment being warm soapy water drying and no bare fingers.If the brass is older 1950`s with no finish or been stripped it would be a good idea to do what Victor described. The treatment for zamac is needed for the paint to adhere well . Soaking in vinegar is said to give a surface for the paint to stick better. With older zamac with oxidation use the finest steel wool to remove it . I have also used a wire brush in a Dremel tool to remove this oxidation. If there is a lot of oxidation you will see the dust fly with this Dremel treatment. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> wrote: > > > Pretty much the same as the brass prep process. For zamac, I always clean off all flash and file the parts to make sure they fit right. Screw everything together to ensure everything is correct. In locomotives, you want to run them a bit. Make sure all detail parts are fastened firmly, then wash everything very well in dish washing soap and very warm water. When dry, soak the parts in a white vinegar bath for 30 to 45 minutes, rinse, and set aside to dry. Do NOT touch them period. Assemble any parts that need to be assembled prior to painting and use latex or nitril gloves to keep skin oils off of the parts. Prior to a color coat, I always use a cheap auto primer. I then paint using the paint of my choice. Many modelers prefer Scalecoat for metal, but I have good succes with Polyscale also. I am not very fond of the new Floquil formula, but do use it occasionally. > Regards, > Vic Bitleris > Raleigh, NC > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > From: r.t.jones@... > Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2011 09:41:11 -0500 > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: painting Cary diesel shells > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 9/18/2011 9:08 AM, trainm7 wrote: > > > Thank you Don. I thought the zamac prep process would be ok just > > > wanted to be sure there were no special considerations for the lead. > > > > What is the "zamac prep process"? I've built a number of Ulrich kits > > and I've never heard of any special preparation to be done on them > > before assembly versus other types of kits. > > > > -- > > > > Rick Jones > > > > "It is absurd to divide people into good and bad. People are either > > charming or tedious." > > -Oscar Wilde >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17359	From: tieplatejunction	Date: 9/24/2011
Subject: 1961 Athearn 4-6-2 Heavy Pacidic...

Recently squired one and I'm trying to get it running again. It seems like there are intermittent shorts or very badly arcing contact points in the tender pickup. Would appreciate any help from folks familiar with these. Purchased as an "unknown maker", I'm pretty stoked now that I know what it is and so an pursuing more information on them as well, there isn't a whole lot on the net. I'd like to find a source for parts as well, overall it is in great shape, just a couple minor dingers to fix if possible. Thanks, BC

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17360	From: Donald R. Staton	Date: 9/24/2011
Subject: Re: 1961 Athearn 4-6-2 Heavy Pacidic...

Do a search of the previous messages in this group.  We covered this extensively a few months ago...  Last winter I think. Is this the first one with plastic loco drivers and tender only pickup?  If so, all tender contact surfaces need to be polished to restore good electrical path including the top surface of the tender trucks, tender frame surfaces and the clips and surfaces where the loco connectors slip into the tender front. Don Staton in VA. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- On 9/24/2011 8:24 AM, tieplatejunction wrote:   Recently squired one and I'm trying to get it running again. It seems like there are intermittent shorts or very badly arcing contact points in the tender pickup. Would appreciate any help from folks familiar with these. Purchased as an "unknown maker", I'm pretty stoked now that I know what it is and so an pursuing more information on them as well, there isn't a whole lot on the net. I'd like to find a source for parts as well, overall it is in great shape, just a couple minor dingers to fix if possible. Thanks, BC

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17361	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 9/24/2011
Subject: Sampson Silver Bullet

Ray F W, I received a letter in the mail today that I was VERY pleased to get. It is the Assembly and Instruction sheets for the Sampson Rail Car " Silver Bullet". It was a nice surprise to get and will come in handy. Along with the parts list from HOseeker / Russ Shiel I am in great shape , when I get time, to rebuild to the Sampson specs which by the front nose/ 5 windows is the 1949 model. To my buddy Ray F W Thank you, Thank You, Thank You. Would it be OK to send a copy to Larry Stevenson for the HO seeker site with your name on it for credit? Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17362	From: erieberk	Date: 9/24/2011
Subject: Re: Sampson Silver Bullet

Hi Jim, Glad you enjoyed the surprise in today's (Saturday's) mail. Much easier to rebuild your model with these plans. Noticed last Friday (not yesterday) that you were asking for a set, so I kept it in mind until I could get them out to you a couple of days ago. By your comparing what you have against what the plans show, I hope you're not missing very much. I'm wondering if you dip that nose piece into a metal cleaner solution, if it would remove the black oxidization. Maybe a vinegar dip might work. Either one can't hurt it to try it. About 20 years ago, I was going to have a local foundry make a cast of the nose piece and have them make me a run of about 500 pieces in brass. When I brought them one of my nose pieces, they said they could only do it if they could remove the four window posts to make one large opening; I think they just wanted to make it easier for themselves. Needless to say, I didn't want the piece altered so I never got it done. Didn't know the 1950 model was that way, but I still prefer the 1949 version by far. Okay by me if you'd send Larry a copy of the plans. Ray Wetzel --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > > Ray F W, > > I received a letter in the mail today that I was VERY pleased to > get. It is the Assembly and Instruction sheets for the Sampson Rail Car > " Silver Bullet". It was a nice surprise to get and will come in handy. > Along with the parts list from HOseeker / Russ Shiel I am in great shape > , when I get time, to rebuild to the Sampson specs which by the front > nose/ 5 windows is the 1949 model. > > To my buddy Ray F W Thank you, Thank You, Thank You. > > Would it be OK to send a copy to Larry Stevenson for the HO seeker > site with your name on it for credit? > > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17363	From: corv9	Date: 9/24/2011
Subject: Re: Sampson Silver Bullet

> About 20 years ago, I was going to have a local foundry make a cast of the nose piece and have them make me a run of about 500 pieces in brass. When I brought them one of my nose pieces, they said they could only do it if they could remove the four window posts to make one large opening; I think they just wanted to make it easier for themselves. Needless to say, I didn't want the piece altered so I never got it done. Didn't know the 1950 model was that way, but I still prefer the 1949 version by far. Okay by me if you'd send Larry a copy of the plans. > > Ray Wetzel Ray, today it would be easy to make a mold with silicone rubber, and cast duplicates in resin. Then either paint it with metalizer paint, or chrome foil. Gerold

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17364	From: tieplatejunction	Date: 9/25/2011
Subject: Re: 1961 Athearn 4-6-2 Heavy Pacidic...

Will do...yes, this is the one with the plastic drivers but not the Hi-F drive. Many thanks.... --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Donald R. Staton" <chpln1@...> wrote: > > /Do a search of the previous messages in this group. We covered this > extensively a few months ago... Last winter I think. > > Is this the first one with plastic loco drivers and tender only pickup? > If so, all tender contact surfaces need to be polished to restore good > electrical path including the top surface of the tender trucks, tender > frame surfaces and the clips and surfaces where the loco connectors slip > into the tender front. > Don Staton in VA. > /---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > On 9/24/2011 8:24 AM, tieplatejunction wrote: > > > > Recently squired one and I'm trying to get it running again. It seems > > like there are intermittent shorts or very badly arcing contact points > > in the tender pickup. Would appreciate any help from folks familiar > > with these. > > > > Purchased as an "unknown maker", I'm pretty stoked now that I know > > what it is and so an pursuing more information on them as well, there > > isn't a whole lot on the net. I'd like to find a source for parts as > > well, overall it is in great shape, just a couple minor dingers to fix > > if possible. > > > > Thanks, BC > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17365	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/25/2011
Subject: Re: Sampson Silver Bullet

Gerold, Thanks for the suggestion of casting in resin. Seems like a silicone rubber mold would be easy to make. My intention at the time, was to market all-brass models of the IC and the NYS&W ACF Streamliner Railcars -- both the double ender and the single ender having this same end configuration -- so I needed them in cast brass. The sides were to be made of soft (bendable) sheet brass, which I was going to buy a press brake for to form the transition curvature of the sides meeting the roof and then, the curvature of the skirting as it rolled in at the bottom. Several other railroads used similar self-propelled cars; SAL, C&EI and M&A, so they weren't only a prototype for just one or two railroads. There was never a Japanese import of these ACF Streamliners, so I know that here in the Northeast, the many NYS&W fans would grab them up. As a young kid in the 1940's, I used to enjoy watching them on their runs between Paterson and North Bergen, NJ. Maybe some day if I again look for the right foundry. Ray F. W. </HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17366	From: Glenn	Date: 9/25/2011
Subject: Re: Sampson Silver Bullet

An idea to try-- make the mold in RTV as though for resin castings--but cast in dental acrylic--the pink stuff they make plates from--invest that casting in plaster, then burn it out to leave a mold that can cast brass. I had a couple of MR Friends who were dentists told me about that material. gj -----Original Message----- From: erieberk@... Sent: Sunday, September 25, 2011 4:29 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Sampson Silver Bullet Gerold, Thanks for the suggestion of casting in resin. Seems like a silicone rubber mold would be easy to make. My intention at the time, was to market all-brass models of the IC and the NYS&W ACF Streamliner Railcars -- both the double ender and the single ender having this same end configuration -- so I needed them in cast brass. The sides were to be made of soft (bendable) sheet brass, which I was going to buy a press brake for to form the transition curvature of the sides meeting the roof and then, the curvature of the skirting as it rolled in at the bottom. Several other railroads used similar self-propelled cars; SAL, C&EI and M&A, so they weren't only a prototype for just one or two railroads. There was never a Japanese import of these ACF Streamliners, so I know that here in the Northeast, the many NYS&W fans would grab them up. As a young kid in the 1940's, I used to enjoy watching them on their runs between Paterson and North Bergen, NJ. Maybe some day if I again look for the right foundry. Ray F. W. </HTML> ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17367	From: rcjge	Date: 9/26/2011
Subject: Re: Sampson Silver Bullet

Pictures? And if so where? -Gareth

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17368	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 9/26/2011
Subject: Re: 1961 Athearn 4-6-2 Heavy Pacidic...

Finish this with an application of electronic contact cleaner fluid, tuner cleaner fluid, or one of the model railroad track conditioner fluids. Do this last step and your contacts will stay in top condition for many months. Some suggestions are........ CRC 2-56, CRC QD Electronic Cleaner, regular tuner cleaner, or the Aerolube track cleaner. Warning........ DO NOT use Goo-Gone for this....... it dries as an electrical barrier in this sort of application. Best to ya, Mike Bauers Milwaukee, Wi On Sep 24, 2011, at 7:37 AM, Donald R. Staton wrote: > > > Do a search of the previous messages in this group. We covered this > extensively a few months ago... Last winter I think. > > Is this the first one with plastic loco drivers and tender only > pickup? If so, all tender contact surfaces need to be polished to > restore good electrical path including the top surface of the tender > trucks, tender frame surfaces and the clips and surfaces where the > loco connectors slip into the tender front. > Don Staton in VA. > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > On 9/24/2011 8:24 AM, tieplatejunction wrote: >> >> Recently squired one and I'm trying to get it running again. It >> seems like there are intermittent shorts or very badly arcing >> contact points in the tender pickup. Would appreciate any help from >> folks familiar with these.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17369	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 9/26/2011
Subject: Re: 1961 Athearn 4-6-2 Heavy Pacidic...

Mike; Did you get my email about the Centre Cab? -Gareth On 26 September 2011 09:15, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote:   Finish this with an application of electronic contact cleaner fluid, tuner cleaner fluid, or one of the model railroad track conditioner fluids. Do this last step and your contacts will stay in top condition for many months. Some suggestions are........ CRC 2-56, CRC QD Electronic Cleaner, regular tuner cleaner, or the Aerolube track cleaner. Warning........ DO NOT use Goo-Gone for this....... it dries as an electrical barrier in this sort of application. Best to ya, Mike Bauers Milwaukee, Wi On Sep 24, 2011, at 7:37 AM, Donald R. Staton wrote: > > > Do a search of the previous messages in this group. We covered this > extensively a few months ago... Last winter I think. > > Is this the first one with plastic loco drivers and tender only > pickup? If so, all tender contact surfaces need to be polished to > restore good electrical path including the top surface of the tender > trucks, tender frame surfaces and the clips and surfaces where the > loco connectors slip into the tender front. > Don Staton in VA. > ---------------------------------------------------------- > On 9/24/2011 8:24 AM, tieplatejunction wrote: >> >> Recently squired one and I'm trying to get it running again. It >> seems like there are intermittent shorts or very badly arcing >> contact points in the tender pickup. Would appreciate any help from >> folks familiar with these. -- "Clear Eyes, Full Heart, Can't Lose!"

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17370	From: Glenn	Date: 9/26/2011
Subject: Re: 1961 Athearn 4-6-2 Heavy Pacidic...

Interesting about Goo Gone--at least one manufacturer of track cleaners recommends it gj -----Original Message----- From: Mike Bauers Sent: Monday, September 26, 2011 6:15 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] 1961 Athearn 4-6-2 Heavy Pacidic... Finish this with an application of electronic contact cleaner fluid, tuner cleaner fluid, or one of the model railroad track conditioner fluids. Do this last step and your contacts will stay in top condition for many months. Some suggestions are........ CRC 2-56, CRC QD Electronic Cleaner, regular tuner cleaner, or the Aerolube track cleaner. Warning........ DO NOT use Goo-Gone for this....... it dries as an electrical barrier in this sort of application. Best to ya, Mike Bauers Milwaukee, Wi On Sep 24, 2011, at 7:37 AM, Donald R. Staton wrote: > > > Do a search of the previous messages in this group. We covered this > extensively a few months ago... Last winter I think. > > Is this the first one with plastic loco drivers and tender only > pickup? If so, all tender contact surfaces need to be polished to > restore good electrical path including the top surface of the tender > trucks, tender frame surfaces and the clips and surfaces where the > loco connectors slip into the tender front. > Don Staton in VA. > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > On 9/24/2011 8:24 AM, tieplatejunction wrote: >> >> Recently squired one and I'm trying to get it running again. It >> seems like there are intermittent shorts or very badly arcing >> contact points in the tender pickup. Would appreciate any help from >> folks familiar with these. ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17371	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 9/26/2011
Subject: Re: 1961 Athearn 4-6-2 Heavy Pacidic...

My experience with it was on a modular layout that was running nicely just after application, late evening. But was completely track dead the following morning. Power was fine and getting through to the rails, equipment wouldn't run on it for more than a few inches. I believe it was because it migrated deposits from the rail surfaces below the railheads, most modules have some years on them. I've also seen a similar effect on equipment that was serviced with GooGone. Worked fine at first, but a bit later stopped working well. I'm not sure what was going on. But it happened to some few hundreds of feet of track and several powered units separately as well. The fix for us was any of the assorted contact cleaner/conditioner fluids to restore operation from the GooGone uses. We also use some of those track cleaner cars that recommend GooGone. We use them with trackcleaner or auto window sprayer fluids instead, ever since our GooGone problems. Mike Bauers Sent from my iPhone On Sep 26, 2011, at 11:36 AM, "Glenn" <glenn476@...> wrote: > Interesting about Goo Gone--at least one manufacturer of track cleaners > recommends it........ >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17372	From: corlissbs@aol.com	Date: 9/26/2011
Subject: Re: 1961 Athearn 4-6-2 Heavy Pacidic...

Are any of the contact cleaners safe to breathe the vapors?  I once used a contact cleaner that worked very well , but was wicked to breathe.  These products have to be used inside the home on the layout.  One track cleaning car manufacturer recommends lacquer thinner be used in his car to clean the rails.  It does work very well, but it has it's own set of problems.   Brad Smith Franklin, WI

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17373	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 9/26/2011
Subject: Re: 1961 Athearn 4-6-2 Heavy Pacidic...

None of them are good for -heavy- exposure. Don't drink any of them, and don't snort them up your nose. Keep in mind that the preferred application is to wet a Q-tip with your choice of fluid, and then wipe the surfaces with that. So it's only a very few drops of liquid absorbed by the cotton swab. One of the safest cleaning liquids to use for it's non-toxic fumes is an organic alcohol. Some suggest a very cheap Vodka. Unlike wood alcohols, it has fumes that be can safely inhaled. Yet there are some side effects from prolonged exposure to that as well. Mike Bauers Sent from my iPhone On Sep 26, 2011, at 2:11 PM, corlissbs@... wrote: Are any of the contact cleaners safe to breathe the vapors?  I once used a contact cleaner that worked very well , but was wicked to breathe.  These products have to be used inside the home on the layout.  One track cleaning car manufacturer recommends lacquer thinner be used in his car to clean the rails.  It does work very well, but it has it's own set of problems.   Brad Smith Franklin, WI

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17374	From: MRLENGAL2U@aol.com	Date: 9/27/2011
Subject: Mantua Booster 0 4 0 frame and steam chest... in plastic !

I recently was given a box of old steam engine parts, which included all of the usual suspects... plus a few surprises. One of them was a Mantua 0 4 0 Booster frame, with the bottom retainer plate, and a steam chest... all molded in black plastic instead of the typical die cast material. Does anyone know if Mantua made a plastic version of this loco, similar to some of the old Hobbyline pieces ? I've been doing this for a long time, and have never seen these pieces before... they are in like new condition, although they appear to be fairly old. Any comments, or ideas ? I would put up pictures... I can, but they won't appear any different than the typical die cast ones in a photo.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17375	From: Garry Spear	Date: 9/27/2011
Subject: Re: Mantua Booster 0 4 0 frame and steam chest... in plastic !

I have an engine like this.  Got the engine for Christmas about 1948/1950.  I think the plastic parts are Nylon. Garry On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 8:43 AM, <MRLENGAL2U@...> wrote:   I recently was given a box of old steam engine parts, which included all of the usual suspects... plus a few surprises. One of them was a Mantua 0 4 0 Booster frame, with the bottom retainer plate, and a steam chest... all molded in black plastic instead of the typical die cast material. Does anyone know if Mantua made a plastic version of this loco, similar to some of the old Hobbyline pieces ? I've been doing this for a long time, and have never seen these pieces before... they are in like new condition, although they appear to be fairly old. Any comments, or ideas ? I would put up pictures... I can, but they won't appear any different than the typical die cast ones in a photo.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17376	From: John H	Date: 9/27/2011
Subject: Re: Mantua Booster 0 4 0 frame and steam chest... in plastic !

The original Booster used a nylon frame. At some point it was replaced with diecast components. From my understanding, there was problem with screws not holding especially the one that held the electrical pick-ups to the frame. Probably due to inadvertent over tightening which would destroy the treads in the nylon frame. John Hage --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Garry Spear <garrettspear@...> wrote: > > I have an engine like this. Got the engine for Christmas about 1948/1950. > I think the plastic parts are Nylon. > > Garry > > On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 8:43 AM, <MRLENGAL2U@...> wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > I recently was given a box of old steam engine parts, which included all of > > the usual suspects... plus a few surprises. One of them was a Mantua 0 4 0 > > Booster frame, with the bottom retainer plate, and a steam chest... all > > molded in black plastic instead of the typical die cast material. Does > > anyone know if Mantua made a plastic version of this loco, similar to some > > of the old Hobbyline pieces ? I've been doing this for a long time, and have > > never seen these pieces before... they are in like new condition, although > > they appear to be fairly old. Any comments, or ideas ? I would put up > > pictures... I can, but they won't appear any different than the typical die > > cast ones in a photo. > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17377	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 9/27/2011
Subject: Varney B&O 4-6-0 vs. Casey Jones 4-6-0

Group, A while back I got a Varney 4-6-0 that had a pilot different from a standard Casey Jones. Here is a pic of one like it on HOSeeker: http://hoseeker.net/varneyinformation/varneycatalog1947pg14.jpg This ad, however, is in O Scale. The pilots match though. What is my HO model then? An early Casey Jones, or was someone really good at swapping parts? It looks like a factory job to me, but some modelers are very good at making modifications to their trains! -Steve Neubaum

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17378	From: tieplatejunction	Date: 9/28/2011
Subject: Re: Mantua Booster 0 4 0 frame and steam chest... in plastic !

I have one of those. Originally offered in 1951, they came with a nylon frame AND two of the four drivers were also nylon. Alas, mine has missing rear steps but I bought it near mint last month at a swap meet. It came with Mantua hook/loops and the optional valve gear upgrade kit already installed... http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff514/3shaygetz/IMG_5309-640.jpg http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff514/3shaygetz/IMG_5307-950.jpg http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff514/3shaygetz/IMG_5305-950.jpg --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "John H" <sprinthag@...> wrote: > > The original Booster used a nylon frame. At some point it was replaced with diecast components. From my understanding, there was problem with screws not holding especially the one that held the electrical pick-ups to the frame. Probably due to inadvertent over tightening which would destroy the treads in the nylon frame. > > John Hage > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Garry Spear <garrettspear@> wrote: > > > > I have an engine like this. Got the engine for Christmas about 1948/1950. > > I think the plastic parts are Nylon. > > > > Garry > > > > On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 8:43 AM, <MRLENGAL2U@> wrote: > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > I recently was given a box of old steam engine parts, which included all of > > > the usual suspects... plus a few surprises. One of them was a Mantua 0 4 0 > > > Booster frame, with the bottom retainer plate, and a steam chest... all > > > molded in black plastic instead of the typical die cast material. Does > > > anyone know if Mantua made a plastic version of this loco, similar to some > > > of the old Hobbyline pieces ? I've been doing this for a long time, and have > > > never seen these pieces before... they are in like new condition, although > > > they appear to be fairly old. Any comments, or ideas ? I would put up > > > pictures... I can, but they won't appear any different than the typical die > > > cast ones in a photo. > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17379	From: MRLENGAL2U@aol.com	Date: 9/28/2011
Subject: Re: Mantua Booster 0 4 0 frame and steam chest... in plastic !

Thanks for all of the replies. It's nice to have a place to go every now and then to share info.  -----Original Message----- From: tieplatejunction <tieplatejunction@...> To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wed, Sep 28, 2011 3:22 pm Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Mantua Booster 0 4 0 frame and steam chest... in plastic ! I have one of those. Originally offered in 1951, they came with a nylon frame AND two of the four drivers were also nylon. Alas, mine has missing rear steps but I bought it near mint last month at a swap meet. It came with Mantua hook/loops and the optional valve gear upgrade kit already installed... http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff514/3shaygetz/IMG_5309-640.jpg http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff514/3shaygetz/IMG_5307-950.jpg http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff514/3shaygetz/IMG_5305-950.jpg --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "John H" <sprinthag@...> wrote: > > The original Booster used a nylon frame. At some point it was replaced with diecast components. From my understanding, there was problem with screws not holding especially the one that held the electrical pick-ups to the frame. Probably due to inadvertent over tightening which would destroy the treads in the nylon frame. > > John Hage > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Garry Spear <garrettspear@> wrote: > > > > I have an engine like this. Got the engine for Christmas about 1948/1950. > > I think the plastic parts are Nylon. > > > > Garry > > > > On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 8:43 AM, <MRLENGAL2U@> wrote: > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > I recently was given a box of old steam engine parts, which included all of > > > the usual suspects... plus a few surprises. One of them was a Mantua 0 4 0 > > > Booster frame, with the bottom retainer plate, and a steam chest... all > > > molded in black plastic instead of the typical die cast material. Does > > > anyone know if Mantua made a plastic version of this loco, similar to some > > > of the old Hobbyline pieces ? I've been doing this for a long time, and have > > > never seen these pieces before... they are in like new condition, although > > > they appear to be fairly old. Any comments, or ideas ? I would put up > > > pictures... I can, but they won't appear any different than the typical die > > > cast ones in a photo. > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17380	From: jbark76	Date: 9/28/2011
Subject: Re: Varney B&O 4-6-0 vs. Casey Jones 4-6-0

The 4-6-0s that Varney made in O scale are completely different from the ones in HO. The O scale ones are B&O. I don't think the HO ones have a real prototype. Even though they are called Casey Jones, I don't think they are that either. -Jeff Barker-

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17381	From: John Hagen	Date: 9/28/2011
Subject: Re: Varney B&O 4-6-0 vs. Casey Jones 4-6-0

Attachments : John Luther Casey Jones 382 after rebuild.jpg The Varney 4-6-0 is a generic design that shares all its main components with Varney’s “Old Lady” Consolidation except the chassis.   I’ve attached a news print type photo showing the real ICC #382 after rebuilding and before its second wreck in 1903 that lead to its scrapping.   John Hagen

@@attachment@@

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17382	From: ablecynic	Date: 9/29/2011
Subject: Re: Varney B&O 4-6-0 vs. Casey Jones 4-6-0

The only accurate model of the Casey Jones/IC #382 was done by Rivarossi for AHM in HO and as a plastic kit in O Scale. Matt --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "John Hagen" <sprinthag@...> wrote: > > The Varney 4-6-0 is a generic design that shares all its main components > with Varney's "Old Lady" Consolidation except the chassis. > > > > I've attached a news print type photo showing the real ICC #382 after > rebuilding and before its second wreck in 1903 that lead to its scrapping. > > > > John Hagen >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17383	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 9/30/2011
Subject: Sampson Silver Bullet

Attachments : IMG_7295_3.JPG IMG_7294_3.JPG Finally got time to work on my 1949 Sampson Silver Bullet. Have the frame and pieces done except for rubber band drive. Motor Runs good. According to the plans the original owner built it backwards with the drive in the back while the plans show should be in the front. To much trouble to change to match plans. Working on body. Nose piece won't clean up and might have to be painted. a project to keep busy Jim H

@@attachment@@

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17384	From: James Bartelt	Date: 10/1/2011
Subject: Unusual Vintage HO Exploding boxcar on ebay

Hello, I saw this unusual exploding boxcar on ebay, Even though the seller lists it as Lionel HO It is not like any one I have seen in the past. Any clues on who made this one? Look for the follong item number on ebay, 270825575046 -- James Bartelt jimbartelt@... METRO RR Club http://www.metrorrclub.org METRO RR CLUB SPRING SHOW 2012 http://members.trainorders.com/scrimjimmy/spring.html

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17385	From: william witte	Date: 10/1/2011
Subject: Re: Unusual Vintage HO Exploding boxcar on ebay

American Flyer HO  (Gilbert) From: James Bartelt <jimbartelt@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, October 1, 2011 1:40 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Unusual Vintage HO Exploding boxcar on ebay   Hello, I saw this unusual exploding boxcar on ebay, Even though the seller lists it as Lionel HO It is not like any one I have seen in the past. Any clues on who made this one? Look for the follong item number on ebay, 270825575046 -- James Bartelt jimbartelt@... METRO RR Club http://www.metrorrclub.org METRO RR CLUB SPRING SHOW 2012 http://members.trainorders.com/scrimjimmy/spring.html

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17386	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 10/1/2011
Subject: Re: Unusual Vintage HO Exploding boxcar on ebay

Hi all.  The exploding boxcar on ebay #270825575046 is a Gilbert #33804 from the mid 50's produced shortly after they made the change to NMRA couplers.  With a current bid of $4.99 it is a steal.  A well made and now valuable car that few are aware is out there.     Gilbert had a number of well designed operating cars in the 50's leading up to the death of AC and take over of the company by his son-in-law.  Another little appreciated line of the 50's is the MARX scale HO line.  Marx and Gilbert did not have extensive lines but I have always treasured what they did have. Jake Bechtel Gadsden, AL On Sat, Oct 1, 2011 at 12:40 PM, James Bartelt <jimbartelt@...> wrote: Hello, I saw this unusual exploding boxcar on ebay, Even though the seller lists it as Lionel HO It is not like any one I have seen in the past. Any clues on who made this one? Look for the follong item number on ebay, 270825575046 -- James Bartelt jimbartelt@... METRO RR Club http://www.metrorrclub.org METRO RR CLUB SPRING SHOW 2012 http://members.trainorders.com/scrimjimmy/spring.html

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17387	From: DOM ST.JOHN	Date: 10/1/2011
Subject: Re: Unusual Vintage HO Exploding boxcar on ebay

It is a Gilbert 5 digit Exploding box car. It was cataloged from 1960 to 1963. The change to NMRA couplers came in 1955 when the "Gilbert HO " line was introduced following the 1951  Korean War stoppage. The roof is missing and I do believe the ends are part of the sides. So the one end in the photo must be broken while the other end is missing. Though the seller does state, he may have found the roof and other end. Dom From: Jacob Bechtel <jhbivusa@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, October 1, 2011 11:26:40 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Unusual Vintage HO Exploding boxcar on ebay   Hi all.  The exploding boxcar on ebay #270825575046 is a Gilbert #33804 from the mid 50's produced shortly after they made the change to NMRA couplers.  With a current bid of $4.99 it is a steal.  A well made and now valuable car that few are aware is out there.     Gilbert had a number of well designed operating cars in the 50's leading up to the death of AC and take over of the company by his son-in-law.  Another little appreciated line of the 50's is the MARX scale HO line.  Marx and Gilbert did not have extensive lines but I have always treasured what they did have. Jake Bechtel Gadsden, AL On Sat, Oct 1, 2011 at 12:40 PM, James Bartelt <jimbartelt@...> wrote: Hello, I saw this unusual exploding boxcar on ebay, Even though the seller lists it as Lionel HO It is not like any one I have seen in the past. Any clues on who made this one? Look for the follong item number on ebay, 270825575046 -- James Bartelt jimbartelt@... METRO RR Club http://www.metrorrclub.org METRO RR CLUB SPRING SHOW 2012 http://members.trainorders.com/scrimjimmy/spring.html

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17388	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 10/2/2011
Subject: Re: Unusual Vintage HO Exploding boxcar on ebay

I was the one that wrote him anout the roof and end, it's intriguing. It['s tempting, but with Trainfest coming up there's a few other things I need toi buy first to get my modules in shape. DonDon Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "DOM ST.JOHN" <jsangiovanni@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, October 01, 2011 10:53 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Unusual Vintage HO Exploding boxcar on ebay It is a Gilbert 5 digit Exploding box car. It was cataloged from 1960 to 1963. The change to NMRA couplers came in 1955 when the "Gilbert HO " line was introduced following the 1951 Korean War stoppage. The roof is missing and I do believe the ends are part of the sides. So the one end in the photo must be broken while the other end is missing. Though the seller does state, he may have found the roof and other end. Dom ________________________________ From: Jacob Bechtel <jhbivusa@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, October 1, 2011 11:26:40 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Unusual Vintage HO Exploding boxcar on ebay Hi all. The exploding boxcar on ebay #270825575046 is a Gilbert #33804 from the mid 50's produced shortly after they made the change to NMRA couplers. With a current bid of $4.99 it is a steal. A well made and now valuable car that few are aware is out there. Gilbert had a number of well designed operating cars in the 50's leading up to the death of AC and take over of the company by his son-in-law. Another little appreciated line of the 50's is the MARX scale HO line. Marx and Gilbert did not have extensive lines but I have always treasured what theydid have. Jake Bechtel Gadsden, AL On Sat, Oct 1, 2011 at 12:40 PM, James Bartelt <jimbartelt@...> wrote: > >Hello, > >I saw this unusual exploding boxcar on ebay, Even though the seller lists >it as >Lionel HO It is not like any one I have seen in the past. Any clues on who >made >this one? Look for the follong item number on ebay, 270825575046 > >-- > >James Bartelt >jimbartelt@... > >METRO RR Club >http://www.metrorrclub.org > >METRO RR CLUB SPRING SHOW 2012 >http://members.trainorders.com/scrimjimmy/spring.html > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17389	From: Charles	Date: 10/2/2011
Subject: Re: Unusual Vintage HO Exploding boxcar on ebay

Just in case there is an issue with the roof or the one end, there are these two surprising listings on ebay as "Buy it Now", in quantity! 110710156123 AMERICAN FLYER HO P16C008 33804 TNT CAR ROOF ORIGINAL $5.00, 6 available 110710155118 AMERICAN FLYER HO P16B079 33804 TNT CAR END ORIGINAL $3.50, 5 available. Chuck Kinzer --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > I was the one that wrote him anout the roof and end, it's intriguing. It['s > tempting, but with Trainfest coming up there's a few other things I need toi > buy first to get my modules in shape. > > DonDon Dellmann > don.dellmann@... > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ > http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction > Owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "DOM ST.JOHN" <jsangiovanni@...> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, October 01, 2011 10:53 PM > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Unusual Vintage HO Exploding boxcar on ebay > > > It is a Gilbert 5 digit Exploding box car. It was cataloged from 1960 to > 1963. > The change to NMRA couplers came in 1955 when the "Gilbert HO " line was > introduced following the 1951 Korean War stoppage. The roof is missing and > I do > believe the ends are part of the sides. So the one end in the photo must be > broken while the other end is missing. Though the seller does state, he may > have > found the roof and other end. > Dom > > > > > > ________________________________ > From: Jacob Bechtel <jhbivusa@...> > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sat, October 1, 2011 11:26:40 PM > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Unusual Vintage HO Exploding boxcar on ebay > > > Hi all. The exploding boxcar on ebay #270825575046 is a Gilbert #33804 from > the > mid 50's produced shortly after they made the change to NMRA couplers. With > a > current bid of $4.99 it is a steal. A well made and now valuable car that > few > are aware is out there. > Gilbert had a number of well designed operating cars in the 50's leading > up > to the death of AC and take over of the company by his son-in-law. Another > little appreciated line of the 50's is the MARX scale HO line. Marx and > Gilbert > did not have extensive lines but I have always treasured what theydid have. > > > Jake Bechtel > Gadsden, AL > > > On Sat, Oct 1, 2011 at 12:40 PM, James Bartelt <jimbartelt@...> wrote: > > > > > >Hello, > > > >I saw this unusual exploding boxcar on ebay, Even though the seller lists > >it as > >Lionel HO It is not like any one I have seen in the past. Any clues on who > >made > >this one? Look for the follong item number on ebay, 270825575046 > > > >-- > > > >James Bartelt > >jimbartelt@... > > > >METRO RR Club > >http://www.metrorrclub.org > > > >METRO RR CLUB SPRING SHOW 2012 > >http://members.trainorders.com/scrimjimmy/spring.html > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17390	From: rcjge	Date: 10/3/2011
Subject: Sure as He-double hockey sticks! ;)

Someone will know this puppy. It sure isn't a Hobbytown unit! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200659453551&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:US:1123 -Gareth

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17391	From: tieplatejunction	Date: 10/4/2011
Subject: Re: Sure as He-double hockey sticks! ;)

Athearn 4-6-2 Pacific...just got one myself... --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "rcjge" <jgpedwards@...> wrote: > > Someone will know this puppy. > > It sure isn't a Hobbytown unit! > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200659453551&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:US:1123 > > -Gareth >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17392	From: ablecynic	Date: 10/4/2011
Subject: Re: Sure as He-double hockey sticks! ;)

From the photos I can't be sure, but it looks like Gilbert HO. V/r Matt Coleman --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "rcjge" <jgpedwards@...> wrote: > > Someone will know this puppy. > > It sure isn't a Hobbytown unit! > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200659453551&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:US:1123 > > -Gareth >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17393	From: Richard	Date: 10/4/2011
Subject: Re: Sure as He-double hockey sticks! ;)

Looks like an early Athearn 4-6-2 (B&M) to me. Richard in Vermont --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "rcjge" <jgpedwards@...> wrote: > > Someone will know this puppy. > > It sure isn't a Hobbytown unit! > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200659453551&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:US:1123 > > -Gareth >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17394	From: David J. Starr	Date: 10/4/2011
Subject: Re: Sure as He-double hockey sticks! ;)

On 10/3/2011 11:27 PM, rcjge wrote: > Someone will know this puppy. > > It sure isn't a Hobbytown unit! > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200659453551&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:US:1123 > > -Gareth > > That's an early Athearn 4-6-2 Pacific. That slightly curved white metal casting between and above the lead and middle drive wheel is a distinctive mark of the Athearn. The prototype was the Boston and Maine P4. The Athearns looked OK, but ran like junk. I have one. After much restoration it looks OK but still runs like junk. Athearn stopped making them in the early 1960's. -- David J. Starr Blog: http://www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17395	From: Rick Steele	Date: 10/4/2011
Subject: Re: Sure as He-double hockey sticks! ;)

I agree with the other guys, I have the 2-8-2 and the trailing truck is the same casting. Rick Steele

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17396	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 10/4/2011
Subject: Re: Sure as He-double hockey sticks! ;)

I'm not sure and don't have a photo to check with......... But I'm strongly reminded of the early 60's Athearn steamer. Here is a video of one in operation....... <http://www.myspace.com/video/sean/athearn-ho-scale-4-6-2-pacific-steam-locomotive/105941672> Mike Bauers On Oct 3, 2011, at 10:27 PM, rcjge wrote: > Someone will know this puppy. > > It sure isn't a Hobbytown unit! > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200659453551&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:US:1123 > > -Gareth

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17397	From: DOM ST.JOHN	Date: 10/4/2011
Subject: Re: Sure as He-double hockey sticks! ;)

Definitely not a Gilbert loco. I agree with Athearn. I have one also. From: Richard <rh@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, October 4, 2011 10:21:44 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Sure as He-double hockey sticks! ;)   Looks like an early Athearn 4-6-2 (B&M) to me. Richard in Vermont --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "rcjge" <jgpedwards@...> wrote: > > Someone will know this puppy. > > It sure isn't a Hobbytown unit! > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200659453551&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:US:1123 > > -Gareth >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17398	From: Dale Smith	Date: 10/4/2011
Subject: Re: Sure as He-double hockey sticks! ;)

I agree it is not a Gilbert because of casting details, most notably the oval stack.   I am not sure about a Pacific though as that second photo looks to me like a 4 wheel trailing truck, but it is hard to tell from the size and quality of the photos. Dale On 10/4/2011 4:34 PM, DOM ST.JOHN wrote:   Definitely not a Gilbert loco. I agree with Athearn. I have one also. From: Richard <rh@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, October 4, 2011 10:21:44 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Sure as He-double hockey sticks! ;)   Looks like an early Athearn 4-6-2 (B&M) to me. Richard in Vermont --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "rcjge" <jgpedwards@...> wrote: > > Someone will know this puppy. > > It sure isn't a Hobbytown unit! > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200659453551&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:US:1123 > > -Gareth >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17399	From: MRLENGAL2U@aol.com	Date: 10/4/2011
Subject: Re: Sure as He-double hockey sticks! ;)

It's an Athearn Pacific. Look closely at the drivers, and you can see that it has the late metal drivers, and not the plastic ones of the earlier versions. I combined one of these engines with the metal drivers, which has a split frame... and has electrical pickup from the all drivers, with a tender that has pickup from all wheels. I cleaned all of the contact surfaces very well, and... the result was a fairly decent running Early Sixties Athearn 4 6 2 Pacific, which I know some of you may or may not approve of, since they weren't produced that way... but Hey !... It runs ! Picking this unit up is a good idea for someone that has the parts and the patience to do the same as I did. It was worth it, in my opinion.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17400	From: ablecynic	Date: 10/5/2011
Subject: Re: Sure as He-double hockey sticks! ;)

Dale, I based my judgement on two things, what appears to be a four-wheel trailing truck and the white rims on the drivers. The Cab is wrong for a Gilbert Hudson, but the chassis doesn't look like an Athearn, but based on the photos alone, it is impossible to tell. Matt --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Dale Smith <dfsmith26@...> wrote: > > I agree it is not a Gilbert because of casting details, most notably the > oval stack. I am not sure about a Pacific though as that second photo > looks to me like a 4 wheel trailing truck, but it is hard to tell from > the size and quality of the photos. > > Dale > > On 10/4/2011 4:34 PM, DOM ST.JOHN wrote: > > Definitely not a Gilbert loco. I agree with Athearn. I have one also. > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *From:* Richard <rh@...> > > *To:* vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > *Sent:* Tue, October 4, 2011 10:21:44 AM > > *Subject:* [vintageHO] Re: Sure as He-double hockey sticks! ;) > > > > Looks like an early Athearn 4-6-2 (B&M) to me. > > Richard in Vermont > > > > > > > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200659453551&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:US:1123 > > <http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200659453551&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:US:1123> > > > > > > -Gareth > > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17401	From: al45390	Date: 10/5/2011
Subject: Re: Sure as He-double hockey sticks! ;)

My Gilbert 4-6-4's all have solid drivers, spoked solid drivers that is, and the trailing trucks are not solid between the side frames. The valve gear is more toy-like too on the Gilberts. So it isn't an Athearn boiler mated to a Gilbert chassis and mechanism. Walter --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "ablecynic" <mattjcoleman@...> wrote: > > Dale, > > I based my judgement on two things, what appears to be a four-wheel trailing truck and the white rims on the drivers. The Cab is wrong for a Gilbert Hudson, but the chassis doesn't look like an Athearn, but based on the photos alone, it is impossible to tell. > > Matt > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Dale Smith <dfsmith26@> wrote: > > > > I agree it is not a Gilbert because of casting details, most notably the > > oval stack. I am not sure about a Pacific though as that second photo > > looks to me like a 4 wheel trailing truck, but it is hard to tell from > > the size and quality of the photos. > > > > Dale > > > > On 10/4/2011 4:34 PM, DOM ST.JOHN wrote: > > > Definitely not a Gilbert loco. I agree with Athearn. I have one also. > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > *From:* Richard <rh@> > > > *To:* vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > > *Sent:* Tue, October 4, 2011 10:21:44 AM > > > *Subject:* [vintageHO] Re: Sure as He-double hockey sticks! ;) > > > > > > Looks like an early Athearn 4-6-2 (B&M) to me. > > > Richard in Vermont > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200659453551&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:US:1123 > > > <http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200659453551&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:US:1123> > > > > > > > > -Gareth > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17402	From: Richard	Date: 10/5/2011
Subject: Early Atearn 4-6-2 Pacific

Not sure if you know but these niffty locos can be made to run as good as todays offerings. Beginning with issue #115 of the B&M's historical society's Modelers Notes, Dave McMullian wrote a step by step, multi part, tutorial with photos, on how to revamp this engine using Bowser drive wheels. I have five of these beauties and I am doing one of them over using this article. If interested you can get copies of Dave's article from Alden Dryer by emailing him at alden.javanet@... The only drawback would be that Bowser is no longer producing steam and their parts are going fast. Richard in Vermont

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17403	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 10/5/2011
Subject: Fwd: Sampson Progress

Attachments : IMG_7300.JPG I have been able to get a little further on my Sampson "Silver Bullet". Finished the frame, drive, install motor, add trucks and paint. Will be inside the cab so doesn't have to be perfect. I have holes drilled and tapped on top of the weights to attach the wires to and then solder to motor. Conductivity from track to motor will be complete. I'm not sure about putting rubber bands back on as they will just wilt/ melt away and changing them is a little harder then the Athearn RBD because of how this Sampson engine is constructed. Instead I am thinking about using Lionel or Lindberg coiled spring belt that will allow me to put the belt on without taking engine / truck apart like rubber band assuming the coil springs will "grab" for driving motor shaft and truck drive wheels. This will be fun to find out if it can work. Working on body, back end and nose piece to fit at edges. Theses parts will all be painted silver. Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 17404	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 10/5/2011
Subject: Re: Fwd: Sampson Progress [1 Attachment]

Try the hardware stores thin O-ring plumbing gaskets fir the drive belts. They will last a long time and be less trouble than spring belts on those bare drive shafts and axles. I was one of the fellows following that eBay auction. It's great to see the mech. Mike Bauers. On Oct 5, 2011, at 11:35 AM, Jim Heckard wrote: > > > > I have been able to get a little further on my Sampson "Silver > Bullet". Finished the frame, drive, install motor, add trucks and > paint. Will be inside the cab so doesn't have to be perfect. I have > holes drilled and tapped on top of the weights to attach the wires to > and then solder to motor. Conductivity from track to motor will be complete. > > I'm not sure about putting rubber bands back on as they will just > wilt/ melt away and changing them is a little harder then the Athearn > RBD because of how this Sampson engine is constructed. Instead I am > thinking about using Lionel or Lindberg coiled spring belt that will > allow me to put the belt on without taking engine / truck apart like > rubber band assuming the coil springs will "grab" for driving motor > shaft and truck drive wheels. This will be fun to find out if it can work. > > Working on body, back end and nose piece to fit at edges. Theses > parts will all be painted silver.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17405	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 10/5/2011
Subject: Re: Fwd: Sampson Progress

Mike,            I am trying to use a drive belt, like the coil spring belt by Lionel and Lindberg because it has two ends . You cut one end to size and feed it around the drive shaft and truck drive wheels and twist small end into large end to lock it. An O ring is a solid circle that means you have to take the engine apart to install. A little more then Athearn. You have to take the truck apart much like athearn but you also have to disassemble the weight holding the drive shaft to get O ring on that drive shaft. A real pain.   I once worked for a German Co that had O rings that had a little nipple on one end and a hole with little lip on the other that you could feed around where needed without disassembling the machine and then snap the two ends together. These worked good even  with hot oil , hydraulics and many other uses. Saved a lot of time. This was as late as 1991 when I retired.    Problem is that I don't know if still made or if you can find the size you need. Can't cut to fit because of how made.                                                         Jim H On 10/5/2011 12:48 PM, Mike Bauers wrote:   Try the hardware stores thin O-ring plumbing gaskets fir the drive belts. They will last a long time and be less trouble than spring belts on those bare drive shafts and axles. I was one of the fellows following that eBay auction. It's great to see the mech. Mike Bauers. On Oct 5, 2011, at 11:35 AM, Jim Heckard wrote: > > > > I have been able to get a little further on my Sampson "Silver > Bullet". Finished the frame, drive, install motor, add trucks and > paint. Will be inside the cab so doesn't have to be perfect. I have > holes drilled and tapped on top of the weights to attach the wires to > and then solder to motor. Conductivity from track to motor will be complete. > > I'm not sure about putting rubber bands back on as they will just > wilt/ melt away and changing them is a little harder then the Athearn > RBD because of how this Sampson engine is constructed. Instead I am > thinking about using Lionel or Lindberg coiled spring belt that will > allow me to put the belt on without taking engine / truck apart like > rubber band assuming the coil springs will "grab" for driving motor > shaft and truck drive wheels. This will be fun to find out if it can work. > > Working on body, back end and nose piece to fit at edges. Theses > parts will all be painted silver.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17406	From: rcjge	Date: 10/5/2011
Subject: Does anyone know what the drivers on a John English

Hi Guys: Does anyone know what the drivers on a John English Pacific scale out as? It's supposed to resemble a USRA 4-6-2 Light Pacific, which had 73" drivers. Wondered about the English model. Thanks, Gareth

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17407	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 10/5/2011
Subject: Re: Fwd: Sampson Progress

I see......... It's been a long time since I saw O-Rings that weren't resized by using SuperGlue. I've handled lots of those joinable wound springs from the inner layer of lube seals. I'll bet that production sub-part is the bulk source of that sort of hobby drive belt. On a whim, I googled for o-rings and found this very interesting source for those unique o-rings we need at times for vintage model RR equipment. http://www.oringwarehouse.com/?gclid=CNbayLC10qsCFU0EQAod-hlEZA It looks like they do small orders with no problem. I'm going to bookmark the place under Tools in my browser. It looks like they have a few hundred sizes in a selection of a fair number of different flexibilities. Mike Bauers On Oct 5, 2011, at 1:14 PM, Jim Heckard wrote: > > > > Mike, > > I am trying to use a drive belt, like the coil spring belt by Lionel and Lindberg because it has two ends . You cut one end to size and feed it around the drive shaft and truck drive wheels and twist small end into large end to lock it. An O ring is a solid circle that means you have to take the engine apart to install. A little more then Athearn. You have to take the truck apart much like athearn but you also have to disassemble the weight holding the drive shaft to get O ring on that drive shaft. A real pain. > > I once worked for a German Co that had O rings that had a little nipple on one end and a hole with little lip on the other that you could feed around where needed without disassembling the machine and then snap the two ends together. These worked good even with hot oil , hydraulics and many other uses. Saved a lot of time. This was as late as 1991 when I retired. > > Problem is that I don't know if still made or if you can find the size you need. Can't cut to fit because of how made. > > Jim H > > On 10/5/2011 12:48 PM, Mike Bauers wrote: >> >> Try the hardware stores thin O-ring plumbing gaskets fir the drive belts. They will last a long time and be less trouble than spring belts on those bare drive shafts and axles. >> >> I was one of the fellows following that eBay auction. It's great to see the mech.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17408	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 10/5/2011
Subject: Re: Does anyone know what the drivers on a John English

The English is supposed to be a NYC K11.  I don't have the English model on hand or I would beasure for you. It is my "understanding" that Bowser used the English tooling to produce the model that they released. Jake Bechtel Gadsden, AL On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 3:47 PM, rcjge <jgpedwards@...> wrote: Hi Guys: Does anyone know what the drivers on a John English Pacific scale out as? It's supposed to resemble a USRA 4-6-2 Light Pacific, which had 73" drivers. Wondered about the English model. Thanks, Gareth ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings:    Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to:    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join    (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email:    vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com    vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:    vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17409	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 10/5/2011
Subject: Re: Does anyone know what the drivers on a John English

I don't know about that, apparently the ad's they ran said it was "... was similar to Santa Fe and USRA Pacifics." that's from the guys at NEB&W website on Steam Models. Basically a USRA Light Pacific w/a SF Cab.... -Gareth On 5 October 2011 18:18, Jacob Bechtel <jhbivusa@...> wrote:   The English is supposed to be a NYC K11.  I don't have the English model on hand or I would beasure for you. It is my "understanding" that Bowser used the English tooling to produce the model that they released. Jake Bechtel Gadsden, AL On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 3:47 PM, rcjge <jgpedwards@...> wrote: Hi Guys: Does anyone know what the drivers on a John English Pacific scale out as? It's supposed to resemble a USRA 4-6-2 Light Pacific, which had 73" drivers. Wondered about the English model. Thanks, Gareth ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings:    Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to:    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join    (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email:    vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com    vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:    vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- "Clear Eyes, Full Heart, Can't Lose!"

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17410	From: Glenn	Date: 10/5/2011
Subject: Re: Does anyone know what the drivers on a John English

I recall that Bowser  had an  NYC K-11 Pacific long before they took over John English Co.  gj   From: J. Gareth Edwards Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2011 3:24 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Does anyone know what the drivers on a John English   I don't know about that, apparently the ad's they ran said it was "... was similar to Santa Fe and USRA Pacifics." that's from the guys at NEB&W website on Steam Models. Basically a USRA Light Pacific w/a SF Cab.... -Gareth On 5 October 2011 18:18, Jacob Bechtel <jhbivusa@...> wrote:   The English is supposed to be a NYC K11.  I don't have the English model on hand or I would beasure for you. It is my "understanding" that Bowser used the English tooling to produce the model that they released. Jake Bechtel Gadsden, AL On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 3:47 PM, rcjge <jgpedwards@...> wrote: Hi Guys: Does anyone know what the drivers on a John English Pacific scale out as? It's supposed to resemble a USRA 4-6-2 Light Pacific, which had 73" drivers. Wondered about the English model. Thanks, Gareth ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings:    Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to:    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join    (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email:    vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com    vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:    vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/   -- "Clear Eyes, Full Heart, Can't Lose!"

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17411	From: MRLENGAL2U@aol.com	Date: 10/5/2011
Subject: Re: Does anyone know what the drivers on a John English

I'm pretty sure the English Die Cast Pacific/Mikado Boiler became the Lionel HO Plastic Pacific Boiler... Much like the English Die Cast ALCO diesel became the Hobbyline and Lionel HO Plastic ALCOs.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17412	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 10/5/2011
Subject: Re: Does anyone know what the drivers on a John English

I can see my Lionel HO Pacific from here, but I'll have to find my English boiler/cab to compare them. So anybody on the driver size??? They should in theory be a scale 73" if it's supposed to be a USRA Light Pacific.... That would however replacing the cab, which is apparently in a Espee style.... -Gareth On 5 October 2011 21:26, <MRLENGAL2U@...> wrote:   I'm pretty sure the English Die Cast Pacific/Mikado Boiler became the Lionel HO Plastic Pacific Boiler... Much like the English Die Cast ALCO diesel became the Hobbyline and Lionel HO Plastic ALCOs.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17413	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 10/5/2011
Subject: Re: Does anyone know what the drivers on a John English

I always thought the Lionel Pacific was the Athearn model, but I've been wrong before. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: <MRLENGAL2U@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2011 8:26 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Does anyone know what the drivers on a John English I'm pretty sure the English Die Cast Pacific/Mikado Boiler became the Lionel HO Plastic Pacific Boiler... Much like the English Die Cast ALCO diesel became the Hobbyline and Lionel HO Plastic ALCOs.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17414	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 10/5/2011
Subject: Re: Does anyone know what the drivers on a John English

If I can find my English boiler/cab I'll compare them. -Gareth On 5 October 2011 21:44, Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote:   I always thought the Lionel Pacific was the Athearn model, but I've been wrong before. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: <MRLENGAL2U@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2011 8:26 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Does anyone know what the drivers on a John English I'm pretty sure the English Die Cast Pacific/Mikado Boiler became the Lionel HO Plastic Pacific Boiler... Much like the English Die Cast ALCO diesel became the Hobbyline and Lionel HO Plastic ALCOs. -- "Clear Eyes, Full Heart, Can't Lose!"

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17415	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 10/5/2011
Subject: Re: Does anyone know what the drivers on a John English

I meant the Lionel. Don't have the Athearn... -Gareth On 5 October 2011 21:44, Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote:   I always thought the Lionel Pacific was the Athearn model, but I've been wrong before. Don

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17416	From: dennyanspach	Date: 10/6/2011
Subject: Re: Early Atearn 4-6-2 Pacific

As far as I can determine with the poor photos, the car-body seems to represent a less-than-refined brass locomotive (places on both side of boiler with patches of paint missing), which would initially seem to point to an early Japanes- import origin.   No early Japanese B&M Pacifics were imported to my knowledge.  The prototype represented by this locomotive's unusual double chimney (stack), and its slanted cab front also provides another challenge.   Could this have been a kit-bash or scratch-built?   The 4-6-4 running gear is impossible for me to parse out, and may well not be original. Denny    Denny S.  Anspach MD Sacramento

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17417	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 10/6/2011
Subject: Re: Early Atearn 4-6-2 Pacific

I think you're over-thinking this. If you look at the HOSeeker Athearn drawings, you will see the slanted cab, the oval stack, the booster trailing truck (and I can only see one actual axle in the photo) the drawbar looks right, the oversized handrail sticking out the front looks right, the missing bell mounting hole is correct location, the cover in front of the cab is right, pop valves in correct place, rusty stains from plain steel handrail clips. http://www.hoseeker.com/assemblyexplosionAthearn/Assembly%20Explosion%20Athearn%204-6-2%201964.jpg I think the number on the cab looks right....I think I have the tender for that engine. Dave > As far as I can determine with the poor photos, the car-body seems to represent a less-than-refined brass locomotive (places on both side of boiler with patches of paint missing), which would initially seem to point to an early Japanes- import origin. No early Japanese B&M Pacifics were imported to my knowledge. The prototype represented by this locomotive's unusual double chimney (stack), and its slanted cab front also provides another challenge. Could this have been a kit-bash or scratch-built? > > The 4-6-4 running gear is impossible for me to parse out, and may well not be original. > > Denny > > Denny S. Anspach MD > Sacramento >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17418	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 10/6/2011
Subject: I may have mis-read the thread....

I responded to "Early Atearn 4-6-2" thinking it was the same thread as "double hockey sticks". Still can't tell if it's the same thread or not....I think it's just the earlier thread re-named. Dave

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17419	From: Glenn	Date: 10/6/2011
Subject: Re: Early Atearn 4-6-2 Pacific

possibly a model of a Japanese prototype?? GJ   From: dennyanspach Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2011 10:37 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Early Atearn 4-6-2 Pacific   As far as I can determine with the poor photos, the car-body seems to represent a less-than-refined brass locomotive (places on both side of boiler with patches of paint missing), which would initially seem to point to an early Japanes- import origin.   No early Japanese B&M Pacifics were imported to my knowledge.  The prototype represented by this locomotive's unusual double chimney (stack), and its slanted cab front also provides another challenge.   Could this have been a kit-bash or scratch-built?    The 4-6-4 running gear is impossible for me to parse out, and may well not be original.   Denny Denny S.  Anspach MD Sacramento

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17420	From: Glenn	Date: 10/6/2011
Subject: thinning collection

I have decided that several items do not really fit my collection, and deserve a better home.  Main is a John English Pacific.  It is nicely painted and decalled NYC.  With  it is a matching train, English combine and two coaches.   I’d like to get $200 for the whole train, or will consider a reasonable offer   I also have what appears go be a PRR baggage/RPO car roughly the same measurement as as the English cars.  It has some surface corrosion but is not crumbling.  $20 or ??   A heavyweight style coach, appears to be 1/8” scale, cast in aluminum  $20 for it?   I think a USPS $20 Flat Rate box should get it all to anywhere in the US from Northern CA.     Contact me off-list--  Glenn Joesten  glenn476@...

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17421	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 10/6/2011
Subject: Varney Super Berkshire

Hi Guys, Been away for a while. It has been hectic here lately with my Mother-in-law still in the hospital with a repaired (broken) hip, and a full blown home renovation / addition in full swing. We have added 4 rooms to our attic space, tearing off the roof and added 4 walls and a new roof. Enough of that, I wanted to share a purchase to night that i never knew existed. Maybe Jim can shed some light on this... http://www.ebay.com/itm/130583181780?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649   I am sorry if I outbid anyone here. I had to have this one, having never seen one before. I'll get some better pictures when it gets here... Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17422	From: ckinzer@att.net	Date: 10/6/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Super Berkshire

The 2-8-2 is Mantua (or Tyco).  Fairly common I think.  Older ones are all metal, later ones had plastic tender shells and cabs.  These have what what I think is a unique boiler shape in HO models where it has partially straight sides no doubt to make it easier to make a mold to cast it.   The 2-8-4 looks like a Varney 2400K Berkshire (1950-52 per Davud Spanagel's book "Greenberg's Guide to Varney Trains") but with a LOT of custom detailing.  The basic boiler sure looks like the photo in the book.  At first I thought the valve gear arrangement was a little different, but I think the photo in the book is of an unfinished assembly because the link that is supposed to connect to a semicircular valve gear arm that is part of the reverse scheme to lift the connecting rod in the reverse link isn't connected to anything and that semicircular arm is not in the photo.   Chuck Kinzer     ----- Original Message ----- From: Sean Naylor To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2011 7:27 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Varney Super Berkshire   Hi Guys, Been away for a while. It has been hectic here lately with my Mother-in-law still in the hospital with a repaired (broken) hip, and a full blown home renovation / addition in full swing. We have added 4 rooms to our attic space, tearing off the roof and added 4 walls and a new roof. Enough of that, I wanted to share a purchase to night that i never knew existed. Maybe Jim can shed some light on this... http://www.ebay.com/itm/130583181780?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649   I am sorry if I outbid anyone here. I had to have this one, having never seen one before. I'll get some better pictures when it gets here... Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17423	From: John H	Date: 10/6/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Super Berkshire

There is another one on ebay right now with 8 hours left. One photo only but it looks good. BUT, the guy wants $200.00 to start. 8 hrs left and no bids........ Gee, ya think his starting bid is too high? Item 190584327392 John Hagen --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, <ckinzer@...> wrote: > > The 2-8-2 is Mantua (or Tyco). Fairly common I think. Older ones are all metal, later ones had plastic tender shells and cabs. These have what what I think is a unique boiler shape in HO models where it has partially straight sides no doubt to make it easier to make a mold to cast it. > > The 2-8-4 looks like a Varney 2400K Berkshire (1950-52 per Davud Spanagel's book "Greenberg's Guide to Varney Trains") but with a LOT of custom detailing. The basic boiler sure looks like the photo in the book. At first I thought the valve gear arrangement was a little different, but I think the photo in the book is of an unfinished assembly because the link that is supposed to connect to a semicircular valve gear arm that is part of the reverse scheme to lift the connecting rod in the reverse link isn't connected to anything and that semicircular arm is not in the photo. > > Chuck Kinzer > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Sean Naylor > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2011 7:27 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Varney Super Berkshire > > > > > Hi Guys, > > > Been away for a while. It has been hectic here lately with my Mother-in-law still in the hospital with a repaired (broken) hip, and a full blown home renovation / addition in full swing. We have added 4 rooms to our attic space, tearing off the roof and added 4 walls and a new roof. > > > Enough of that, I wanted to share a purchase to night that i never knew existed. Maybe Jim can shed some light on this... > > > http://www.ebay.com/itm/130583181780?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649 > > I am sorry if I outbid anyone here. I had to have this one, having never seen one before. > > > I'll get some better pictures when it gets here... > > > Sean > > > "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17424	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 10/7/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Super Berkshire

Yes, That is the Berkshire, but it does not specify that it is the "Super" Berkshire with the rare V-2 motor. The single bad picture does not shoe it either. I have two other Berks and neither have the super option. I was just wondering if anyone could confirm that this was an offered model or did someone make one out of the Mikado chassis.   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: John H <sprinthag@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, October 7, 2011 2:28 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Varney Super Berkshire   There is another one on ebay right now with 8 hours left. One photo only but it looks good. BUT, the guy wants $200.00 to start. 8 hrs left and no bids........ Gee, ya think his starting bid is too high? Item 190584327392 John Hagen --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, <ckinzer@...> wrote: > > The 2-8-2 is Mantua (or Tyco). Fairly common I think. Older ones are all metal, later ones had plastic tender shells and cabs. These have what what I think is a unique boiler shape in HO models where it has partially straight sides no doubt to make it easier to make a mold to cast it. > > The 2-8-4 looks like a Varney 2400K Berkshire (1950-52 per Davud Spanagel's book "Greenberg's Guide to Varney Trains") but with a LOT of custom detailing. The basic boiler sure looks like the photo in the book. At first I thought the valve gear arrangement was a little different, but I think the photo in the book is of an unfinished assembly because the link that is supposed to connect to a semicircular valve gear arm that is part of the reverse scheme to lift the connecting rod in the reverse link isn't connected to anything and that semicircular arm is not in the photo. > > Chuck Kinzer > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Sean Naylor > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2011 7:27 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Varney Super Berkshire > > > > > Hi Guys, > > > Been away for a while. It has been hectic here lately with my Mother-in-law still in the hospital with a repaired (broken) hip, and a full blown home renovation / addition in full swing. We have added 4 rooms to our attic space, tearing off the roof and added 4 walls and a new roof. > > > Enough of that, I wanted to share a purchase to night that i never knew existed. Maybe Jim can shed some light on this... > > > http://www.ebay.com/itm/130583181780?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649 > > I am sorry if I outbid anyone here. I had to have this one, having never seen one before. > > > I'll get some better pictures when it gets here... > > > Sean > > > "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17425	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 10/7/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Super Berkshire

Thanks Chuck, Specifically, I was curious if the "Super" line of models included the Berkshire. I have heard of the "Super Northern" but have never seen one of those either. Although, I think Jim H. has one.   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: "ckinzer@..." <ckinzer@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, October 7, 2011 1:05 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Varney Super Berkshire   The 2-8-2 is Mantua (or Tyco).  Fairly common I think.  Older ones are all metal, later ones had plastic tender shells and cabs.  These have what what I think is a unique boiler shape in HO models where it has partially straight sides no doubt to make it easier to make a mold to cast it.   The 2-8-4 looks like a Varney 2400K Berkshire (1950-52 per Davud Spanagel's book "Greenberg's Guide to Varney Trains") but with a LOT of custom detailing.  The basic boiler sure looks like the photo in the book.  At first I thought the valve gear arrangement was a little different, but I think the photo in the book is of an unfinished assembly because the link that is supposed to connect to a semicircular valve gear arm that is part of the reverse scheme to lift the connecting rod in the reverse link isn't connected to anything and that semicircular arm is not in the photo.   Chuck Kinzer

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17426	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 10/7/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Super Berkshire

John, If it is the Super Berkshire, then no I do not think his starting bid is too high. In today's economy, the rare items too are going much cheaper than they used to. There is almost always someone that is willing to pay for it. My bid for the pair I have shown was just under $200, but I knew the one I purchased was a Super.  I also know I can get ~$40+ out of the Mantua Mikado parts which drops down the Berkshire price to just about ~$125, which for me is much easier to swallow.   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! "BUT, the guy wants $200.00 to start. 8 hrs left and no bids........ Gee, ya think his starting bid is too high? .... John Hagen"

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17427	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 10/7/2011
Subject: Super 4-8-4 Northern

Attachments : IMG_7303.JPG IMG_7302.JPG IMG_7301.JPG Sean, All, I'm sending these pictures of my Varney 4-8-4 Super NORTHERN kit. It is still mint in the boxes. Sean mentioned he thought I had one. Here it is. Not many made According to Greenberg Guide to Varney trains by Dave Spanagel Page 54 The number is [1900] 4-8-4 Super Northern kit. ( any number in the Varney book with [ ] around the number means no number could be found and the writers made up a number surrounded by [ ] to let you know the number was made up by people involved with the book ). The main reason they had to make up a number is that the Super 4-8-4 Northern was never advertised. It had the same cast brass boiler as the economy kit but had the V-2 motor and equalized frame. Remember this is the Super Northern that I wrote about above not the ? Super ? Berkshire in Sean's picture. I have to check that out more but it does have a V-2 motor and valve gear. Jim H

@@attachment@@

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17428	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 10/7/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Super Berkshire

Some comments on the 2-8-4 Berk that Sean won. ( Not the Mantua in the front). Look at the second little picture. That is a Varney valve gear used on Super engines. Look at little picture 4. It shows the bottom of this 2-8-4 Berk and you can clearly see the silver bottom for the Super V-2 motor which also means the drivers are equalized. Now  was there a Super Berk made.  Maybe yes , maybe no.  It could have been unadvertised / uncatalogued like the Super 4-8-4 Northern I just wrote about. It could be a mix and match type project but what ever it is it has super valve gear, super V-2 motor and I bet equalized drivers that would be needed with the way the V-2 motor hooked up and worked. The pictures I show are a super Bershire I have but has special valve gear not Varney. Was my engine sold with a V-2 motor in it . I don't know.                                                                                   Jim H On 10/7/2011 7:28 AM, Sean Naylor wrote:   Thanks Chuck, Specifically, I was curious if the "Super" line of models included the Berkshire. I have heard of the "Super Northern" but have never seen one of those either. Although, I think Jim H. has one.   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: "ckinzer@..." <ckinzer@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, October 7, 2011 1:05 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Varney Super Berkshire   The 2-8-2 is Mantua (or Tyco).  Fairly common I think.  Older ones are all metal, later ones had plastic tender shells and cabs.  These have what what I think is a unique boiler shape in HO models where it has partially straight sides no doubt to make it easier to make a mold to cast it.   The 2-8-4 looks like a Varney 2400K Berkshire (1950-52 per Davud Spanagel's book "Greenberg's Guide to Varney Trains") but with a LOT of custom detailing.  The basic boiler sure looks like the photo in the book.  At first I thought the valve gear arrangement was a little different, but I think the photo in the book is of an unfinished assembly because the link that is supposed to connect to a semicircular valve gear arm that is part of the reverse scheme to lift the connecting rod in the reverse link isn't connected to anything and that semicircular arm is not in the photo.   Chuck Kinzer

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17429	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 10/7/2011
Subject: Super Berk ?

Attachments : IMG_7306_1.JPG IMG_7305_1.JPG IMG_7304_1.JPG Sorry forgot to send the pictures of my Varney 2-8-4 Super Berk engine. Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 17430	From: Nelson	Date: 10/7/2011
Subject: Re: Early Atearn 4-6-2 Pacific

It's the final version of the Athearn Pacific with metal drivers, no question. The photos aren't that bad. Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "trainsnwrcs" <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: > > I think you're over-thinking this. If you look at the HOSeeker Athearn drawings, you will see the slanted cab, the oval stack, the booster trailing truck (and I can only see one actual axle in the photo) the drawbar looks right, the oversized handrail sticking out the front looks right, the missing bell mounting hole is correct location, the cover in front of the cab is right, pop valves in correct place, rusty stains from plain steel handrail clips. > http://www.hoseeker.com/assemblyexplosionAthearn/Assembly%20Explosion%20Athearn%204-6-2%201964.jpg > > I think the number on the cab looks right....I think I have the tender for that engine. > > Dave

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17431	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 10/7/2011
Subject: Re: Early Atearn 4-6-2 Pacific

I've been talking to someone from the B&MRR historical Society about a very good article about making these into really good runners. Problem is I have to buy one of their Bulletins to get the Modellers Note publication. It would be $8 postage paid. That to me seems a lot for one article. the Scaling if you'll pardon the pun is atrocious. As I pointed out to this very nice chap it's like my buying the Canadian Railway Modeller for $8 to get three pages I want.... Perhaps some one on here would be more willing to cough up the $8. Best, Gareth Bardford-WG, Ont. On 7 October 2011 15:19, Nelson <greenbrier614@...> wrote:   It's the final version of the Athearn Pacific with metal drivers, no question. The photos aren't that bad. Nelson

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17432	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 10/7/2011
Subject: Mistake

Sent picture of Super Mike not the Berk. My mistake to correct later Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17433	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 10/7/2011
Subject: Mistake No Super Berk

I do not have a Super Berk just a regular "economy' with open frame motor and regular valve gear. I used wrong picture. I made a mistake but Sean's still looks like a super Berk for the reasons I noted. Sorry for any confusion. Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17434	From: John Webster	Date: 10/8/2011
Subject: Re: Does anyone know what the drivers on a John English

The drivers on my English Pacific measure .833 to .840 which is 72.5 to 73.2 inches.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17435	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 10/8/2011
Subject: Re: Does anyone know what the drivers on a John English

Thank you! -Gareth On 8 October 2011 04:20, John Webster <midpoint37@...> wrote:   The drivers on my English Pacific measure .833 to .840 which is 72.5 to 73.2 inches. -- "Clear Eyes, Full Heart, Can't Lose!"

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17436	From: al45390	Date: 10/8/2011
Subject: Re: Does anyone know what the drivers on a John English

That seems like a large difference to me. Were the manufacturing tolerances that loose? Is that, or was that, normal? Walter --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "John Webster" <midpoint37@...> wrote: > > The drivers on my English Pacific measure .833 to .840 which is 72.5 to 73.2 inches. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17437	From: rcjge	Date: 10/8/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Super Berkshire

Hey Guys; The fella selling that Economy Berk, has relisted at $175. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Varney-Steam-Engine-/190585775428?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item2c5fcc2544 Just a heads up. -Gareth

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17438	From: John Webster	Date: 10/9/2011
Subject: Re: Does anyone know what the drivers on a John English

An unbuilt Bowser K-11 (same era) measures .794 to .798. An unbuilt Varney 2-8-0 (early 60s) measures .714 to .722. The Engish is +/- .0035, the Bowser +/- .0020 and the Varney +/- .0040.   Since these are all rigid frame die cast locos with cast axle slots in the frame the chances of more than three tires in contact with the rail at any given time are nil.   My guess is that the wheels on brass locos aren't any better and that the ones that are sprung have springs that are so stiff that they act like rigid frames.   Which is why I wire my tenders with pickups on both sides. That way when the one driver tire that is in contact with the rail on the locomotive pickup side hits a dead frog the tender pickup provides the power to keep the loco moving.   BTW The old Varney "Super" locos were super because they had good contact to the rail provided by the spring loaded wire pushing down equally on all of the drive axles thus ensuring good electrical contact.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17439	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 10/9/2011
Subject: Re: Does anyone know what the drivers on a John English

Hey John: Thanks for introducing the element of engineering. I have a Super Consolie and Mikado. I often think how interesting it would be to mill a brass frame with some form of springing. Having said that I agree; that in relative terms, track rarely reflects the contact surface plane of a model train locomotive, hence the more redundancy of said contact (Tender, Pilot/Trailing truck) the better. -Gareth On 9 October 2011 09:14, John Webster <midpoint37@...> wrote:   An unbuilt Bowser K-11 (same era) measures .794 to .798. An unbuilt Varney 2-8-0 (early 60s) measures .714 to .722. The Engish is +/- .0035, the Bowser +/- .0020 and the Varney +/- .0040.   Since these are all rigid frame die cast locos with cast axle slots in the frame the chances of more than three tires in contact with the rail at any given time are nil.   My guess is that the wheels on brass locos aren't any better and that the ones that are sprung have springs that are so stiff that they act like rigid frames.   Which is why I wire my tenders with pickups on both sides. That way when the one driver tire that is in contact with the rail on the locomotive pickup side hits a dead frog the tender pickup provides the power to keep the loco moving.   BTW The old Varney "Super" locos were super because they had good contact to the rail provided by the spring loaded wire pushing down equally on all of the drive axles thus ensuring good electrical contact. -- "Clear Eyes, Full Heart, Can't Lose!"

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17440	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 10/10/2011
Subject: Re: Sampson Silver Bullet

On 10/10/2011 11:56 AM, Jim Heckard wrote: > > > Have been working on the Sampson silver bullet I'm rebuilding and > ran into a problem. Hope I can explain. If you remember the drawing > and instructions I sent given to me by Ray FW ( They should be on > HOseeker by now I think.) showed parts where they go but not assembled. > > As I started mounting the parts on the wooden floor I mounted the > motor and the weight with the drive shaft in. Both parts mount to the > floor and that way the motor drive shaft and the weight with the drive > shaft through it were level. I mounted the other weight and soldered > the wires from the motor to the weights which are connected through > the wooden floor to the bolsters and trucks. everything going great > and according to Hoyle UNTIL I tried to slip the body on it. The > bottom of the body has two cutouts where you slide the floor into the > body. Remember all the electric parts/ connections are on top of the > motor. Guess what. You can't slide the body on the floor because there > is No room in the ceiling of the body to allow the top of the motor in. > > I sat there looking at the plans and my engine trying to decide > what now. I finally move the floor down into the rounded bottom of > the body. It fits and holds by itself. Part of the floor sticks out > in the cut outs for the trucks that will have to be painted black but > the trucks turn better not hitting the body. The nose which screws on > the floor and can taken off to pull body of fits pretty nice but the > back wall ) which also screws on to the body but far from perfect. I > have to do some redesigning to make it fit better. It sits to high > > While this is not the proper way to assemble it because of problem > above at least I can come up with a presentable running item that most > won't notice the changes I have to make. Hope I'm explaining the problem. > > > Jim H > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17441	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 10/10/2011
Subject: Fwd: Sampson Silver Bullet

Attachments : IMG_7316.JPG IMG_7315.JPG IMG_7312.JPG IMG_7311.JPG IMG_7309.JPG Sent these pictures to better explain previous email and what I ran into. Picture 1 shows how motor and weight with drive shaft are mounted on floor so motor shaft and drive shaft inside weight are level. Picture 2 shows how the top of the motor won't fit under the body and would short out if the floor put into the right body slot Picture 3 shows how I had to put the floor lower onto the bottom where it will sit in the curl under the body. It does stay and will hold better when front and back pieces are screwed onto floor. ( They must be screwed so it can be taken apart if any inside problem ) The floor doesn't belong in this position but I see no other choice. Parts of the floor show through the wheel wells. It's not right but It can be "hide" (painted black). One good thing it gives the wheels very good clearance. Picture 4 will show how the back piece doesn't fit and the bottom will have to be worked on all because floor in wrong position yet the front nose will work out. Picture 5 will show how it will look if ever completed. As I like to call it " a real puss case " Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 17442	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 10/10/2011
Subject: Re: Fwd: Sampson Silver Bullet [5 Attachments]

Jim, I understand what you were dealing with, even to the point of wanting to be as OEM as possible. I'd like to suggest one rebuild for it. Make two near duplicate floors that match the original. Splice in the two copies so that the motor mount section is separated and reassembled to be below the main floor. To best do this, overlap the edges of the joint of the normal and dropped height floor sections. Glue well at the overlapping joint and preferably use some tiny screws or bolts and nuts in the overlapped section. So cut the motor pad section longer from one of the duplicate floors than the section you remove from the new main floor, so that the floor over-laps on the bottom. The end result is to mount the motor on a recessed step platform between the two [offset] normal height floor ends. Recess that motor just a bit and you won't effect the height of the body on the floor. The Silver Bullet should then match the typical passenger height with this recessed motor mount section. Mike Bauers On Oct 10, 2011, at 1:09 PM, Jim Heckard wrote: > > Sent these pictures to better explain previous email and what I ran > into. > > > Picture 1 shows how motor and weight with drive shaft are mounted on > floor so motor shaft and drive shaft inside weight are level. > > Picture 2 shows how the top of the motor won't fit under the body and > would short out if the floor put into the right body slot..............

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17443	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 10/10/2011
Subject: modification

Mike, Thanks for you idea,. I'm sure there would be many ways to "modify" it but there in lies the problem. I am a stickler to having my vintage pieces as close to original as possible ( If Possible ). The motor shaft and drive shaft have to be level although I did like an idea someone proposed. An upside down motor with the wiring on the bottom. It was one of the first things I thought off. Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17444	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 10/10/2011
Subject: Re: modification

I thought of the same motor flip at first. But next realized you might have to cut a recess in the floor while you are changing the mount on the then upside down motor, and have to make a custom mount bracket that was never in the original model. You'd have an easier time of lowering the motor if you replace it with a modern can motor. But that gets the unit even further away from OEM. So, if I had the model and wanted it using the original drive as much as possible; I'd save the original floor as a collectors item and use a custom floor that allows all of the original drive to be used in as original a configuration as possible. In an imperfect world, that's what I would settle upon. I'd rationalize it as what an Mark-2 drive would have been from the factory, if they continued to use all of the OEM parts. Again, I'm only suggesting an alternative to make the unit more compatible with similar passenger cars........ and thinking of the thin hardwoods that are on the shelf at the local hobby shops and the Menards stores. nice, tough stuff for this sort of floor. [I came close to getting the model you wound up with, which started me thinking about this sort of solution.] Best to Ya, Mike Bauers On Oct 10, 2011, at 2:12 PM, Jim Heckard wrote: > > > Mike, > > > Thanks for you idea,. I'm sure there would be many ways to > "modify" it but there in lies the problem. I am a stickler to having my > vintage pieces as close to original as possible ( If Possible ). The > motor shaft and drive shaft have to be level although I did like an idea > someone proposed. An upside down motor with the wiring on the bottom. It > was one of the first things I thought off.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17445	From: tracey quon	Date: 10/10/2011
Subject: Re: Fwd: Sampson Silver Bullet [5 Attachments]

Hi,  New to the group. How about flipping the motor 180 degrees so that the brush holders sit on the wood floor. The thin piece of wood used as the motor mount would have to be moved back just enough to clear the brush holder.  Tracey --- On Mon, 10/10/11, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Fwd: Sampson Silver Bullet [5 Attachments] To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, October 10, 2011, 11:09 AM   Sent these pictures to better explain previous email and what I ran into. Picture 1 shows how motor and weight with drive shaft are mounted on floor so motor shaft and drive shaft inside weight are level. Picture 2 shows how the top of the motor won't fit under the body and would short out if the floor put into the right body slot Picture 3 shows how I had to put the floor lower onto the bottom where it will sit in the curl under the body. It does stay and will hold better when front and back pieces are screwed onto floor. ( They must be screwed so it can be taken apart if any inside problem ) The floor doesn't belong in this position but I see no other choice. Parts of the floor show through the wheel wells. It's not right but It can be "hide" (painted black). One good thing it gives the wheels very good clearance. Picture 4 will show how the back piece doesn't fit and the bottom will have to be worked on all because floor in wrong position yet the front nose will work out. Picture 5 will show how it will look if ever completed. As I like to call it " a real puss case " Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17446	From: Jim Waterman	Date: 10/11/2011
Subject: Re: modification

Jim How about turning the motor sideways and making a bracket to hold it down? Or even a little hot glue? Jim

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17447	From: Jim Waterman	Date: 10/11/2011
Subject: Re: modification

Here's another idea - was this the original motor for this unit? Maybe not. A smaller footprint motor would work. Another idea is to get a set of couplings - universal joints, which would take up any misalignment of the motor if the center lines were not in line. Jim

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17448	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 10/11/2011
Subject: Sampson Silver Bullet

Tracy Q, Jim W, My first thought was to turn the motor. Someone else had stated to build the engine. I have to recheck everything to find out the problem of why it doesn't fit. I can't believe Sampson would make that kind of mistake. So it's back to the drawing board till I figure out why. It is a DC-71a motor and that's what it called for. Lots of free time to figure out. Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17449	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 10/11/2011
Subject: Varney Smokey Joe Locomotive - 78 RPM Record?

All, Bear in mind I am likely the youngest (active) member of this group, as 27 years old. Having said that, I have a question: I have heard of Varney's 0-4-0 docksider locomtotive referred to as the "Smokey Joe", and I remember, vaguely, hearing of a 78 RPM recording that the engine could turn on (78s, at least the popular recordings, are 10" diameter). Was there every a promotional 78 made in conjunction with the Varney loco? I want to say Varney showed the engine turning on a 78 (Wonder how the engine ran on shellac rails!), and the other side might have had a song called "Smokey Joe"? Anyone know any more about this? If such a 78 RPM record exists, I would be very interested in trying to find one! I do also collect, and regularly play 78s at home, got at least 700 of them now! A Varney record would work well into my collection, which includes many 10" discs from NBC, that they played on the air. Usually listen to them while working on my layout. As I said, I don't know the particulars of the advertising that Varney used for the Smokey Joe, and I have a hunch my memory is extrapolating (Incorrectly) details too. -Steve Neubaum

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17450	From: estabrook@aol.com	Date: 10/11/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Smokey Joe Locomotive - 78 RPM Record?

Hi Steve - I don't know if the Smoky Joe record ever existed, but I have some old 78's (Mostly Country and Western) I was about to heave - If interested, contact me off list using AOL address. Reed Estabrook ---- Original Message ---- From: Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tue, Oct 11, 2011 8:14 pm Subject: [vintageHO] Varney Smokey Joe Locomotive - 78 RPM Record?   All, Bear in mind I am likely the youngest (active) member of this group, as 27 years old. Having said that, I have a question: I have heard of Varney's 0-4-0 docksider locomtotive referred to as the "Smokey Joe", and I remember, vaguely, hearing of a 78 RPM recording that the engine could turn on (78s, at least the popular recordings, are 10" diameter). Was there every a promotional 78 made in conjunction with the Varney loco? I want to say Varney showed the engine turning on a 78 (Wonder how the engine ran on shellac rails!), and the other side might have had a song called "Smokey Joe"? Anyone know any more about this? If such a 78 RPM record exists, I would be very interested in trying to find one! I do also collect, and regularly play 78s at home, got at least 700 of them now! A Varney record would work well into my collection, which includes many 10" discs from NBC, that they played on the air. Usually listen to them while working on my layout. As I said, I don't know the particulars of the advertising that Varney used for the Smokey Joe, and I have a hunch my memory is extrapolating (Incorrectly) details too. -Steve Neubaum

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17451	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 10/11/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Smokey Joe Locomotive - 78 RPM Record?

----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephen Neubaum" <computersystemrebuild@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2011 7:13 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Varney Smokey Joe Locomotive - 78 RPM Record? > All, > > Bear in mind I am likely the youngest (active) member of this group, as 27 > years old. Having said that, I have a question: > > I have heard of Varney's 0-4-0 docksider locomtotive referred to as the > "Smokey Joe", and I remember, vaguely, hearing of a 78 RPM recording that > the engine could turn on (78s, at least the popular recordings, are 10" > diameter). Was there every a promotional 78 made in conjunction with the > Varney loco? I want to say Varney showed the engine turning on a 78 > (Wonder how the engine ran on shellac rails!), and the other side might > have had a song called "Smokey Joe"? > > Anyone know any more about this? If such a 78 RPM record exists, I would > be very interested in trying to find one! > > I do also collect, and regularly play 78s at home, got at least 700 of > them now! A Varney record would work well into my collection, which > includes many 10" discs from NBC, that they played on the air. Usually > listen to them while working on my layout. > > As I said, I don't know the particulars of the advertising that Varney > used for the Smokey Joe, and I have a hunch my memory is extrapolating > (Incorrectly) details too. > > -Steve Neubaum You've got me beat on 78's, only have a couple hundred that have been archived to tape. I do more LP's and 45's (just shy of 5000 of each, 50's and 60's Pop & rock, a lot of "big band" and a fair classical collection courtesy of my mother when she went to CD's). As far as the Varney Dockside, it was called the "Little Joe", not the "Smokey Joe". I do vaguely remember a Varney ad such as you speak of, but I don't recall there was anything ever mentioned about the record itself. What was fairly famous was a similar Mantua ad where they built a loop of track around the brim of a lady's hat, said hat being worn by a popular actress of the time (forget her name, it was not someone remembered today). Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17452	From: Glenn	Date: 10/11/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Smokey Joe Locomotive - 78 RPM Record?

I don’t know about an actual rrecord—what I had was a pressed-steel disc with regular, fiber-tie flex track mounted on it.  wires thru it hooked up to a power pack.  The “label” had the title, “Little Joe Goes to Town”   Glenn Joesten   From: Stephen Neubaum Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2011 5:13 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Varney Smokey Joe Locomotive - 78 RPM Record?   All, Bear in mind I am likely the youngest (active) member of this group, as 27 years old. Having said that, I have a question: I have heard of Varney's 0-4-0 docksider locomtotive referred to as the "Smokey Joe", and I remember, vaguely, hearing of a 78 RPM recording that the engine could turn on (78s, at least the popular recordings, are 10" diameter). Was there every a promotional 78 made in conjunction with the Varney loco? I want to say Varney showed the engine turning on a 78 (Wonder how the engine ran on shellac rails!), and the other side might have had a song called "Smokey Joe"? Anyone know any more about this? If such a 78 RPM record exists, I would be very interested in trying to find one! I do also collect, and regularly play 78s at home, got at least 700 of them now! A Varney record would work well into my collection, which includes many 10" discs from NBC, that they played on the air. Usually listen to them while working on my layout. As I said, I don't know the particulars of the advertising that Varney used for the Smokey Joe, and I have a hunch my memory is extrapolating (Incorrectly) details too. -Steve Neubaum

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17453	From: Glenn	Date: 10/11/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Smokey Joe Locomotive - 78 RPM Record?

also--Varney called the Dockside "Little Joe", not "Smokey Joe" gj -----Original Message----- From: Don Dellmann Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2011 8:26 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Varney Smokey Joe Locomotive - 78 RPM Record? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephen Neubaum" <computersystemrebuild@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2011 7:13 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Varney Smokey Joe Locomotive - 78 RPM Record? > All, > > Bear in mind I am likely the youngest (active) member of this group, as 27 > years old. Having said that, I have a question: > > I have heard of Varney's 0-4-0 docksider locomtotive referred to as the > "Smokey Joe", and I remember, vaguely, hearing of a 78 RPM recording that > the engine could turn on (78s, at least the popular recordings, are 10" > diameter). Was there every a promotional 78 made in conjunction with the > Varney loco? I want to say Varney showed the engine turning on a 78 > (Wonder how the engine ran on shellac rails!), and the other side might > have had a song called "Smokey Joe"? > > Anyone know any more about this? If such a 78 RPM record exists, I would > be very interested in trying to find one! > > I do also collect, and regularly play 78s at home, got at least 700 of > them now! A Varney record would work well into my collection, which > includes many 10" discs from NBC, that they played on the air. Usually > listen to them while working on my layout. > > As I said, I don't know the particulars of the advertising that Varney > used for the Smokey Joe, and I have a hunch my memory is extrapolating > (Incorrectly) details too. > > -Steve Neubaum You've got me beat on 78's, only have a couple hundred that have been archived to tape. I do more LP's and 45's (just shy of 5000 of each, 50's and 60's Pop & rock, a lot of "big band" and a fair classical collection courtesy of my mother when she went to CD's). As far as the Varney Dockside, it was called the "Little Joe", not the "Smokey Joe". I do vaguely remember a Varney ad such as you speak of, but I don't recall there was anything ever mentioned about the record itself. What was fairly famous was a similar Mantua ad where they built a loop of track around the brim of a lady's hat, said hat being worn by a popular actress of the time (forget her name, it was not someone remembered today). Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17454	From: Mike Sloane	Date: 10/12/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Smokey Joe Locomotive - 78 RPM Record?

I don't know about the "Smokey Joe" name, but the "Little Joe" or "Docksider" was advertised at one point with a picture of the loco on top of a pack of cigarettes (it might have been a pack of Camel's), and it wasn't any longer than that. This was a time when even HO locomotives tended to be relatively large (to accommodate the large electric motors then available). When I started modeling in the '50s, 78 rpm records were already considered antiques - kids and teens played 45's, while adults played LP's (33 1/3 rpm). Mike On 10/11/2011 8:13 PM, Stephen Neubaum wrote: > All, > > Bear in mind I am likely the youngest (active) member of this group, as > 27 years old. Having said that, I have a question: > > I have heard of Varney's 0-4-0 docksider locomtotive referred to as the > "Smokey Joe", and I remember, vaguely, hearing of a 78 RPM recording > that the engine could turn on (78s, at least the popular recordings, are > 10" diameter). Was there every a promotional 78 made in conjunction with > the Varney loco? I want to say Varney showed the engine turning on a 78 > (Wonder how the engine ran on shellac rails!), and the other side might > have had a song called "Smokey Joe"? > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17455	From: oljoe	Date: 10/12/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Smokey Joe Locomotive - 78 RPM Record?

The Athearn Hustler was shown running around the brim of a straw hat. In response the Penn Line Whitcomb switcher was displayed running around a silver dollar inside one of those glass-dome displays in the office of the Penn Line CEO. The Penn Line was made with both small and large wheels. The display loco had the small wheels. I really don't think the large wheels could have run around the silver dollar. Somewhere I have pics of the Penn Line display if anyone is interested. Joe O'Loughlin

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17456	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 10/12/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Super Berkshire

Hi Guys, That Varney Berkshire came yesterday. It has a Brass Boiler. My catalog shows pictures of the Berkshire and the Super Mikado using the same (looking) boiler as my new super Berk, but list different catalog part numbers. So now I am really confused. The boilers between my two Berkshires are clearly different as the other is aluminum and the boilers on both of my Super Mikados are different that that as what is shown in my Catalog. In addition, The Hudson appears to be the same boiler as is used on the Berk, but it is the only one that mentions using a "Brass" boiler. Not to forget to mention, the Brass Berkshire shell is not listed at all. I have posted additional new pictures here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> To: "vintageHO@yahoogroups.com" <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, October 6, 2011 10:27 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Varney Super Berkshire   Hi Guys, Been away for a while. It has been hectic here lately with my Mother-in-law still in the hospital with a repaired (broken) hip, and a full blown home renovation / addition in full swing. We have added 4 rooms to our attic space, tearing off the roof and added 4 walls and a new roof. Enough of that, I wanted to share a purchase to night that i never knew existed. Maybe Jim can shed some light on this... http://www.ebay.com/itm/130583181780?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649   I am sorry if I outbid anyone here. I had to have this one, having never seen one before. I'll get some better pictures when it gets here... Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17457	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 10/12/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Smokey Joe Locomotive - 78 RPM Record?

Look here: http://www.hoseeker.net/pennline/pennlinehistory/early1.html I did not think it was the Varney lil joe that ran around the hat either.   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: oljoe <oljoe@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 7:26 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Varney Smokey Joe Locomotive - 78 RPM Record?   The Athearn Hustler was shown running around the brim of a straw hat. In response the Penn Line Whitcomb switcher was displayed running around a silver dollar inside one of those glass-dome displays in the office of the Penn Line CEO. The Penn Line was made with both small and large wheels. The display loco had the small wheels. I really don't think the large wheels could have run around the silver dollar. Somewhere I have pics of the Penn Line display if anyone is interested. Joe O'Loughlin

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17458	From: rcjge	Date: 10/12/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Super Berkshire

Hey Jim/Sean: I'm interested in the differences if any between the Super Mikado's and Super Berkshires rear frame where the trailing trucks would mount. Do they use the same frame in that the Mike has a two wheel trailing truck and the Berk a four wheel. Thanks Guys. -Gareth --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > > Some comments on the 2-8-4 Berk that Sean won. ( Not the Mantua in the > front).

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17459	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 10/12/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Super Berkshire

Hi Gareth, I added a combined pic to my set, but they look to be the same chassis to me:   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: rcjge <jgpedwards@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 10:31 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Varney Super Berkshire   Hey Jim/Sean: I'm interested in the differences if any between the Super Mikado's and Super Berkshires rear frame where the trailing trucks would mount. Do they use the same frame in that the Mike has a two wheel trailing truck and the Berk a four wheel. Thanks Guys. -Gareth --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > > Some comments on the 2-8-4 Berk that Sean won. ( Not the Mantua in the > front).

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17460	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 10/12/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Super Berkshire

Sean; Is the Berk Boiler/cab longer than the Mikes? Either one, you have two right? I was wondering about the trailing truck mount for both.... the Berk must have a different form of attachment to the frame, or does it in fact attach to the frame? -Gareth On 12 October 2011 10:53, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote:   Hi Gareth, I added a combined pic to my set, but they look to be the same chassis to me:   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: rcjge <jgpedwards@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 10:31 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Varney Super Berkshire   Hey Jim/Sean: I'm interested in the differences if any between the Super Mikado's and Super Berkshires rear frame where the trailing trucks would mount. Do they use the same frame in that the Mike has a two wheel trailing truck and the Berk a four wheel. Thanks Guys. -Gareth --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > > Some comments on the 2-8-4 Berk that Sean won. ( Not the Mantua in the > front). -- "Clear Eyes, Full Heart, Can't Lose!"

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17461	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 10/12/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Super Berkshire

Gareth, They both attach to the frame with the same screw location, just rear of the last driver. The difference is only on the trailing truck mounting arm, on the truck itself. Both are home right now and I am at work. I'll try to post a picture of this later.   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: J. Gareth Edwards <jgpedwards@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 10:57 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Varney Super Berkshire   Sean; Is the Berk Boiler/cab longer than the Mikes? Either one, you have two right? I was wondering about the trailing truck mount for both.... the Berk must have a different form of attachment to the frame, or does it in fact attach to the frame? -Gareth On 12 October 2011 10:53, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote:   Hi Gareth, I added a combined pic to my set, but they look to be the same chassis to me:   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: rcjge <jgpedwards@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 10:31 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Varney Super Berkshire   Hey Jim/Sean: I'm interested in the differences if any between the Super Mikado's and Super Berkshires rear frame where the trailing trucks would mount. Do they use the same frame in that the Mike has a two wheel trailing truck and the Berk a four wheel. Thanks Guys. -Gareth --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > > Some comments on the 2-8-4 Berk that Sean won. ( Not the Mantua in the > front). -- "Clear Eyes, Full Heart, Can't Lose!"

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17462	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 10/12/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Super Berkshire

Thanks Sean: Try to figure out if you can if the boiler/cab combo is longer on the Berk to allow for the four wheel trailing truck. Actually perhaps the length of the two wheel Mike Trailing truck arm is the same length in terms of where the wheels locate compared to the Berks rear axle in the four wheel truck. -Gareth On 12 October 2011 11:03, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote:   Gareth, They both attach to the frame with the same screw location, just rear of the last driver. The difference is only on the trailing truck mounting arm, on the truck itself. Both are home right now and I am at work. I'll try to post a picture of this later.   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: J. Gareth Edwards <jgpedwards@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 10:57 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Varney Super Berkshire   Sean; Is the Berk Boiler/cab longer than the Mikes? Either one, you have two right? I was wondering about the trailing truck mount for both.... the Berk must have a different form of attachment to the frame, or does it in fact attach to the frame? -Gareth On 12 October 2011 10:53, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote:   Hi Gareth, I added a combined pic to my set, but they look to be the same chassis to me:   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: rcjge <jgpedwards@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 10:31 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Varney Super Berkshire   Hey Jim/Sean: I'm interested in the differences if any between the Super Mikado's and Super Berkshires rear frame where the trailing trucks would mount. Do they use the same frame in that the Mike has a two wheel trailing truck and the Berk a four wheel. Thanks Guys. -Gareth --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > > Some comments on the 2-8-4 Berk that Sean won. ( Not the Mantua in the > front). -- "Clear Eyes, Full Heart, Can't Lose!" -- "Clear Eyes, Full Heart, Can't Lose!"

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17463	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 10/12/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Super Berkshire

Gareth, Turns out I have a Super Mikado here and a standard Berkshire with a die cast chassis here at work. They are different, but I took a picture of the mounting so you can see this. They are posted to flickr as well: http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/6237444945/in/photostream   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: J. Gareth Edwards <jgpedwards@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 10:57 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Varney Super Berkshire   Sean; Is the Berk Boiler/cab longer than the Mikes? Either one, you have two right? I was wondering about the trailing truck mount for both.... the Berk must have a different form of attachment to the frame, or does it in fact attach to the frame? -Gareth On 12 October 2011 10:53, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote:   Hi Gareth, I added a combined pic to my set, but they look to be the same chassis to me:   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: rcjge <jgpedwards@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 10:31 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Varney Super Berkshire   Hey Jim/Sean: I'm interested in the differences if any between the Super Mikado's and Super Berkshires rear frame where the trailing trucks would mount. Do they use the same frame in that the Mike has a two wheel trailing truck and the Berk a four wheel. Thanks Guys. -Gareth --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > > Some comments on the 2-8-4 Berk that Sean won. ( Not the Mantua in the > front). -- "Clear Eyes, Full Heart, Can't Lose!"

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17464	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 10/12/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Super Berkshire

Hey Sean: Looks equidistant to me? Which means a Super Mike Chassis and the Berk trailing truck could be made into a Super Berk it looks like. GV was a master at redundancy! ;) -Gareth On 12 October 2011 11:11, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote:   Gareth, Turns out I have a Super Mikado here and a standard Berkshire with a die cast chassis here at work. They are different, but I took a picture of the mounting so you can see this. They are posted to flickr as well: http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/6237444945/in/photostream   Sean

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17465	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 10/12/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Super Berkshire

Gareth, The berk Boiler is a little longer, but the chassis mounting screws are each approximately 128mm apart on the underside. Looks to be no chassis modification needed to fit one to the other. It even looks like the boilers would easily swap as well.   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: J. Gareth Edwards <jgpedwards@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 11:10 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Varney Super Berkshire   Thanks Sean: Try to figure out if you can if the boiler/cab combo is longer on the Berk to allow for the four wheel trailing truck. Actually perhaps the length of the two wheel Mike Trailing truck arm is the same length in terms of where the wheels locate compared to the Berks rear axle in the four wheel truck. -Gareth

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17466	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 10/12/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Super Berkshire

Hey Sean: looks to me like the Berk firebox is a little longer which makes perfect proto sense. -Gareth On 12 October 2011 11:33, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote:   Gareth, The berk Boiler is a little longer, but the chassis mounting screws are each approximately 128mm apart on the underside. Looks to be no chassis modification needed to fit one to the other. It even looks like the boilers would easily swap as well.   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: J. Gareth Edwards <jgpedwards@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 11:10 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Varney Super Berkshire   Thanks Sean: Try to figure out if you can if the boiler/cab combo is longer on the Berk to allow for the four wheel trailing truck. Actually perhaps the length of the two wheel Mike Trailing truck arm is the same length in terms of where the wheels locate compared to the Berks rear axle in the four wheel truck. -Gareth -- "Clear Eyes, Full Heart, Can't Lose!"

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17467	From: oljoe	Date: 10/12/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Smokey Joe Locomotive - 78 RPM Record?

On 10/12/2011 10:41 AM, oljoe wrote: > I went looking for the pics of the Penn Line Whitcomb, found them, and > several other interesting pics: > > The "mantua" pic is of a woman with a hat and a Mantua Booster but it is > a very early booster. The booster I recall was longer that the hat brim > booster. It is also pulling a Mantua caboose emblaisoned with a big > Mantua on the side of the caboose. The hat reminds me of the > hat that goofy female comedian (Minnie Pearl), wore all the time - > flowers and other "things". > The only thing missing from the mantua hat was the "price tag" that > was always on > Minnies hat. > > I thought I had a pic of the Athearn Hustler hat brim but can't find > it. I think the > Athearn hat was a cowboy hat (bigger brim). > > The Penn Line is indeed the small wheeled version. I also have > several pics of the Whitcomb prototype 1:1. > > I had all of them - Penn Line, Athearn, Mantua. Over the last 10 > years I've managed to acquire several examples of each. I also > have one of the "dome" displays and a silver dollar with the idea > of reconstructing the Penn Line display for myself. > > Joe O'Loughlin

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17468	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 10/12/2011
Subject: : Sampson Success

Attachments : IMG_7322.JPG IMG_7321.JPG IMG_7320.JPG IMG_7319.JPG IMG_7318.JPG I did some work on the Sampson Silver Bullet and using the same motor and not turning sideways or upside down it I was able to get enough clearance for the top of the motor and wiring to go inside the body. I still have to glue down the wood brace under the front of the motor, which will give me another 1/32" clearance on top but it works without gluing it down . Isn't a lot of clearance but enough to have no short. Now everything goes together without modifying anything and runs For whatever the reason the original builder had a piece of brass with a hole in the wooden floor that could flex and that the back magnet screw sat in. This piece was the cause of the the problem. Hard to explain but once I lowered it below the body I was able to put that back screw that goes through the motor magnets where it stuck out the bottom and I put a nut on it to hold it. It's not the perfect solution. All that matters is it works. Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 17469	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 10/12/2011
Subject: Re: : Sampson Success [5 Attachments]

Dear Jim,    Nice going! Looks good.  For a little extra safety re. shorts -you might want to put a layer of Kapton tape over the top of the motor.  The Kapton is an excellent insulator that I use in all DCC installs and it is quite thin - in the range of .001" to .004" Jake B. Gadsden, AL On Wed, Oct 12, 2011 at 12:44 PM, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: <*>[Attachment(s) from Jim Heckard included below]      I did some work on the Sampson Silver Bullet and using the same motor and not turning sideways or upside down it I was able to get enough clearance for the top of the motor and wiring to go inside the body. I still have to glue down the wood brace under the front of the motor, which will give me another 1/32" clearance on top but it works without gluing it down . Isn't a lot of clearance but enough to have no short.  Now everything goes together without modifying anything and runs        For whatever the reason the original builder had a piece of brass with a hole in the wooden floor that could flex and  that the back magnet screw sat in. This piece was the  cause of the the problem.  Hard to explain but once I lowered it below the body I was able to put that back screw that goes through the motor magnets where it stuck out the bottom and I put a nut on it to hold it.       It's not the perfect solution.  All that matters is it works.                                                                        Jim H <*>Attachment(s) from Jim Heckard: <*> 5 of 5 Photo(s) http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/attachments/folder/213473721/item/list  <*> IMG_7318.JPG  <*> IMG_7319.JPG  <*> IMG_7320.JPG  <*> IMG_7321.JPG  <*> IMG_7322.JPG ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings:    Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to:    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join    (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email:    vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com    vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:    vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17470	From: Dr. Robert Driggers	Date: 10/12/2011
Subject: Athearn 0-6-0

Does anyone know how to repair or replace the drive wheel gear on the Athearn 0-6-0? Both of mine are cracked. Thanks Robert

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17471	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 10/12/2011
Subject: Athearn 0-6-0 drive gear

Dr. Robert Diggers,     Please forgive this tired old brain not having total recall but I'm pretty sure we talked about this  problem. (Go back in the messages and I'm pretty sure you will find discussions and pictures ).I sent you pictures of one I had fixed by taking down the edges of the broken gear and using skinny brass washers pushed and glued on the ends where the drive shaft goes to pull the gear teeth together leaving no gap. In fact, and I'll have to check my stock but didn't I send you a completed working one ?.                                                                           Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17472	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 10/12/2011
Subject: Re: : Sampson Success

Dear Jake,    I was going to put a piece of skinny tape in the top of the body above the motor just in case.  Any special store you can buy Kapton tape ?                                                     Jim H On 10/12/2011 1:51 PM, Jacob Bechtel wrote:   Dear Jim,    Nice going! Looks good.  For a little extra safety re. shorts -you might want to put a layer of Kapton tape over the top of the motor.  The Kapton is an excellent insulator that I use in all DCC installs and it is quite thin - in the range of .001" to .004" Jake B. Gadsden, AL On Wed, Oct 12, 2011 at 12:44 PM, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: <*>[Attachment(s) from Jim Heckard included below]      I did some work on the Sampson Silver Bullet and using the same motor and not turning sideways or upside down it I was able to get enough clearance for the top of the motor and wiring to go inside the body. I still have to glue down the wood brace under the front of the motor, which will give me another 1/32" clearance on top but it works without gluing it down . Isn't a lot of clearance but enough to have no short.  Now everything goes together without modifying anything and runs        For whatever the reason the original builder had a piece of brass with a hole in the wooden floor that could flex and  that the back magnet screw sat in. This piece was the  cause of the the problem.  Hard to explain but once I lowered it below the body I was able to put that back screw that goes through the motor magnets where it stuck out the bottom and I put a nut on it to hold it.       It's not the perfect solution.  All that matters is it works.                                                                        Jim H <*>Attachment(s) from Jim Heckard: <*> 5 of 5 Photo(s) http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/attachments/folder/213473721/item/list  <*> IMG_7318.JPG  <*> IMG_7319.JPG  <*> IMG_7320.JPG  <*> IMG_7321.JPG  <*> IMG_7322.JPG ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings:    Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to:    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join    (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email:    vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com    vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:    vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17473	From: Dr. Robert Driggers	Date: 10/12/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 0-6-0 drive gear

Jim, Found discussion with you. you did not send a working one to me. We did not get that far in our discussion. Would be glad to pay you for one. Could send you one of my broken ones to fix. Thanks   From: Jim Heckard Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 3:13 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Athearn 0-6-0 drive gear         Dr. Robert Diggers,     Please forgive this tired old brain not having total recall but I'm pretty sure we talked about this  problem. (Go back in the messages and I'm pretty sure you will find discussions and pictures ).I sent you pictures of one I had fixed by taking down the edges of the broken gear and using skinny brass washers pushed and glued on the ends where the drive shaft goes to pull the gear teeth together leaving no gap. In fact, and I'll have to check my stock but didn't I send you a completed working one ?.                                                                           Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17474	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 10/12/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 0-6-0 drive gear

Dr Diggers,     I'm having medical problems and don't have the time or the want to do outside jobs. Have enough with my projects. Sorry.      I'll look tomorrow as I might have a repaired one . But no guarantee                                                           Jim H On 10/12/2011 3:33 PM, Dr. Robert Driggers wrote:   Jim, Found discussion with you. you did not send a working one to me. We did not get that far in our discussion. Would be glad to pay you for one. Could send you one of my broken ones to fix. Thanks   From: Jim Heckard Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 3:13 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Athearn 0-6-0 drive gear         Dr. Robert Diggers,     Please forgive this tired old brain not having total recall but I'm pretty sure we talked about this  problem. (Go back in the messages and I'm pretty sure you will find discussions and pictures ).I sent you pictures of one I had fixed by taking down the edges of the broken gear and using skinny brass washers pushed and glued on the ends where the drive shaft goes to pull the gear teeth together leaving no gap. In fact, and I'll have to check my stock but didn't I send you a completed working one ?.                                                                           Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17475	From: Alan Kilby	Date: 10/12/2011
Subject: Re: : Sampson Success

I had a hard time finding it under the kapton name,Polyimide tape can be found at electronics stores,according to local electronics store (with very knowledgable professional staff) they said it is the same stuff(generic version) and is listed as replacement with same characteristics.    Alan From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 12:17 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] : Sampson Success   Dear Jake,    I was going to put a piece of skinny tape in the top of the body above the motor just in case.  Any special store you can buy Kapton tape ?                                                     Jim H On 10/12/2011 1:51 PM, Jacob Bechtel wrote:   Dear Jim,    Nice going! Looks good.  For a little extra safety re. shorts -you might want to put a layer of Kapton tape over the top of the motor.  The Kapton is an excellent insulator that I use in all DCC installs and it is quite thin - in the range of .001" to .004" Jake B. Gadsden, AL On Wed, Oct 12, 2011 at 12:44 PM, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: <*>[Attachment(s) from Jim Heckard included below]      I did some work on the Sampson Silver Bullet and using the same motor and not turning sideways or upside down it I was able to get enough clearance for the top of the motor and wiring to go inside the body. I still have to glue down the wood brace under the front of the motor, which will give me another 1/32" clearance on top but it works without gluing it down . Isn't a lot of clearance but enough to have no short.  Now everything goes together without modifying anything and runs        For whatever the reason the original builder had a piece of brass with a hole in the wooden floor that could flex and  that the back magnet screw sat in. This piece was the  cause of the the problem.  Hard to explain but once I lowered it below the body I was able to put that back screw that goes through the motor magnets where it stuck out the bottom and I put a nut on it to hold it.       It's not the perfect solution.  All that matters is it works.                                                                        Jim H <*>Attachment(s) from Jim Heckard: <*> 5 of 5 Photo(s) http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/attachments/folder/213473721/item/list  <*> IMG_7318.JPG  <*> IMG_7319.JPG  <*> IMG_7320.JPG  <*> IMG_7321.JPG  <*> IMG_7322.JPG ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings:    Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to:    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join    (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email:    vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com    vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:    vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17476	From: ablecynic	Date: 10/13/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Smokey Joe Locomotive - 78 RPM Record?

Perhaps I am wrong, but I agree with Mike -- the name "Smokey Joe" is used by Hornby for a more recent 0-4-0T offering per the following links: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Hornby-Smokey-Joe-Electric-Train/dp/B0000AFQ41 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caledonian_Railway_0F_class http://www.feeltheword.net/forum/archive/index.php/t-5519.html?s=899129a16c549610577da04c28bd02de http://www.newmodellersshop.co.uk/steam_locomotives/r782_br_black_0-4-0_smokey_joe_steam_locomotive.htm I only know of the Varney Docksider being known as "Little Joe" in some of the 1940s advertising. I did a quick scan on Google and only found references to "Little Joe" or "Lil' Joe" per the following: joe train | eBay shop.ebay.com/items/i.html?_nkw=joe+train 00 Smokey Joe Mix Lot, inc watermill and coal store. 1 Bid, $32.55, Time left:10h 53m ... Varney HO 0-4-0 Lil' Joe Dockside Steam Engine OB ... Just more grist for the discussion. V/r Matt Coleman --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Mike Sloane <mikesloane@...> wrote: > > I don't know about the "Smokey Joe" name, but the "Little Joe" or > "Docksider" was advertised at one point with a picture of the loco on > top of a pack of cigarettes (it might have been a pack of Camel's), and > it wasn't any longer than that. This was a time when even HO locomotives > tended to be relatively large (to accommodate the large electric motors > then available). When I started modeling in the '50s, 78 rpm records > were already considered antiques - kids and teens played 45's, while > adults played LP's (33 1/3 rpm). > > Mike > > On 10/11/2011 8:13 PM, Stephen Neubaum wrote: > > All, > > > > Bear in mind I am likely the youngest (active) member of this group, as > > 27 years old. Having said that, I have a question: > > > > I have heard of Varney's 0-4-0 docksider locomtotive referred to as the > > "Smokey Joe", and I remember, vaguely, hearing of a 78 RPM recording > > that the engine could turn on (78s, at least the popular recordings, are > > 10" diameter). Was there every a promotional 78 made in conjunction with > > the Varney loco? I want to say Varney showed the engine turning on a 78 > > (Wonder how the engine ran on shellac rails!), and the other side might > > have had a song called "Smokey Joe"? > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17477	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 10/13/2011
Subject: Re: : Sampson Success

Thanks Alan, I didn't know the generic name.  After some bad experiences with reg. elec. tape I located  the Kapton at the Litchfield Station web site while searching for DCC supplies like super-flexable wire.  I think you can also get it from TCS and Digitrax web sites.  Another little helper that I have used is "Plasti-Dip" made by Performix and that I found at the hardware store. It is a liquid plastic used to insulate tool handles.  It does seem expensive and only comes in 14.5 oz cans so usually 3 or 4 of us split the cost of a can.  It can be thinned with naptha, xylene, or toluene solvents. This could be painted on the inside of the shell. I use it to insulate the ends of wires that I have had to cut and/or splice when I don't have room to wrap them. I wrapped about 12" of Kapton around a piece of flat plastic that I can mail you Jim.  Send me a mailing address and I'll drop it into an envelope for you. Jake Bechtel Gadsden, AL On Wed, Oct 12, 2011 at 9:09 PM, Alan Kilby <albyrno@...> wrote: I had a hard time finding it under the kapton name,Polyimide tape can be found at electronics stores,according to local electronics store (with very knowledgable professional staff) they said it is the same stuff(generic version) and is listed as replacement with same characteristics.    Alan From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 12:17 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] : Sampson Success   Dear Jake,    I was going to put a piece of skinny tape in the top of the body above the motor just in case.  Any special store you can buy Kapton tape ?                                                     Jim H On 10/12/2011 1:51 PM, Jacob Bechtel wrote:   Dear Jim,    Nice going! Looks good.  For a little extra safety re. shorts -you might want to put a layer of Kapton tape over the top of the motor.  The Kapton is an excellent insulator that I use in all DCC installs and it is quite thin - in the range of .001" to .004" Jake B. Gadsden, AL On Wed, Oct 12, 2011 at 12:44 PM, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: <*>[Attachment(s) from Jim Heckard included below]      I did some work on the Sampson Silver Bullet and using the same motor and not turning sideways or upside down it I was able to get enough clearance for the top of the motor and wiring to go inside the body. I still have to glue down the wood brace under the front of the motor, which will give me another 1/32" clearance on top but it works without gluing it down . Isn't a lot of clearance but enough to have no short.  Now everything goes together without modifying anything and runs        For whatever the reason the original builder had a piece of brass with a hole in the wooden floor that could flex and  that the back magnet screw sat in. This piece was the  cause of the the problem.  Hard to explain but once I lowered it below the body I was able to put that back screw that goes through the motor magnets where it stuck out the bottom and I put a nut on it to hold it.       It's not the perfect solution.  All that matters is it works.                                                                        Jim H <*>Attachment(s) from Jim Heckard: <*> 5 of 5 Photo(s) http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/attachments/folder/213473721/item/list  <*> IMG_7318.JPG  <*> IMG_7319.JPG  <*> IMG_7320.JPG  <*> IMG_7321.JPG  <*> IMG_7322.JPG ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings:    Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to:    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join    (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email:    vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com    vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:    vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17478	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 10/13/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn 0-6-0 drive gear

Dear Jim,    A couple of time in the last 60 years I have been motivated enough, or naive enough, to duplicate a broken or worn out gear by hand.  It is a tedious task but not particularly machine skill intensive.  Generally, if you have a good set of small files, a good set of sliding calipers, (Harbor Freight Tools has an electronic 6" sliding caliper for about $20), and a reliable small vise plus some high quality drills.    Most often I have relied on NWSL's extensive range of gears to obtain worms and spurs that can be used. NWSL can and will make minor modifications to their gearing parts for you, (bore size, etc.) or even make a custom gear for you.  Just remember that they are machinists working in the US and their work isn't free.  There are a couple of other custom model builders/machinists around that I have worked with in the past but most of them are much more restrictive in the tasks that they will undertake than is NWSL. Jake Bechtel Gadsden, AL    On Wed, Oct 12, 2011 at 4:58 PM, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: Dr Diggers,     I'm having medical problems and don't have the time or the want to do outside jobs. Have enough with my projects. Sorry.      I'll look tomorrow as I might have a repaired one . But no guarantee                                                           Jim H On 10/12/2011 3:33 PM, Dr. Robert Driggers wrote:   Jim, Found discussion with you. you did not send a working one to me. We did not get that far in our discussion. Would be glad to pay you for one. Could send you one of my broken ones to fix. Thanks   From: Jim Heckard Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 3:13 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Athearn 0-6-0 drive gear         Dr. Robert Diggers,     Please forgive this tired old brain not having total recall but I'm pretty sure we talked about this  problem. (Go back in the messages and I'm pretty sure you will find discussions and pictures ).I sent you pictures of one I had fixed by taking down the edges of the broken gear and using skinny brass washers pushed and glued on the ends where the drive shaft goes to pull the gear teeth together leaving no gap. In fact, and I'll have to check my stock but didn't I send you a completed working one ?.                                                                           Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17479	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 10/13/2011
Subject: 0-6-0 Athearn drive gear

Attachments : IMG_7329.JPG IMG_7328.JPG IMG_7327.JPG IMG_7326.JPG Dr Diggers, Jake B, I'm sending a number of pictures of a repaired 0-6-0 drive gear. By shaving the edges of the arms of the gear you can force brass washers on which will pull the split in the gear together without any glue. While I know I had some discussions on this site I also might have had some on another Yahoo site. I think I even made a drawing of the gear out of the saddle to show where to take edges down just enough to press the washers on. This is the last repaired one I have in my box so I'll be keeping it for my reference. Since I am not feeling to good I can't take on trying to make more any. Hope the pictures are a start to see what can be done. Don't forget to quarter the drivers and press in the gear in the right positions the first time. Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 17480	From: Dr. Robert Driggers	Date: 10/13/2011
Subject: Re: 0-6-0 Athearn drive gear [4 Attachments]

Jim, Do you know what size washers you used. Do you have any extra ones around? Thanks Robert   From: Jim Heckard Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2011 11:13 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] 0-6-0 Athearn drive gear [4 Attachments]     Dr Diggers, Jake B, I'm sending a number of pictures of a repaired 0-6-0 drive gear. By shaving the edges of the arms of the gear you can force brass washers on which will pull the split in the gear together without any glue. While I know I had some discussions on this site I also might have had some on another Yahoo site. I think I even made a drawing of the gear out of the saddle to show where to take edges down just enough to press the washers on. This is the last repaired one I have in my box so I'll be keeping it for my reference. Since I am not feeling to good I can't take on trying to make more any. Hope the pictures are a start to see what can be done. Don't forget to quarter the drivers and press in the gear in the right positions the first time. Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17481	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 10/13/2011
Subject: Re: 0-6-0 Athearn drive gear

Sorry I don't remember washer size and can't check while together. I'm not feeling very good and can't get involved. You will have to experiment but they were skinny. Pictures were the best I could do. On 10/13/2011 12:08 PM, Dr. Robert Driggers wrote:   Jim, Do you know what size washers you used. Do you have any extra ones around? Thanks Robert   From: Jim Heckard Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2011 11:13 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] 0-6-0 Athearn drive gear [4 Attachments]     Dr Diggers, Jake B, I'm sending a number of pictures of a repaired 0-6-0 drive gear. By shaving the edges of the arms of the gear you can force brass washers on which will pull the split in the gear together without any glue. While I know I had some discussions on this site I also might have had some on another Yahoo site. I think I even made a drawing of the gear out of the saddle to show where to take edges down just enough to press the washers on. This is the last repaired one I have in my box so I'll be keeping it for my reference. Since I am not feeling to good I can't take on trying to make more any. Hope the pictures are a start to see what can be done. Don't forget to quarter the drivers and press in the gear in the right positions the first time. Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17482	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 10/13/2011
Subject: Re: 0-6-0 Athearn drive gear [4 Attachments]

Dear Jim,    Thank you for the photos!  I'm pretty sure that I can duplicate your repairs using my Dremel drill press, and  NWSL's "Puller", "Quarter" and "Sensi-Press".  I could probably do it without the Sensi-Press if I used the larger Puller.  Again, thank you for the photos - they really help explain your work. Jake Bechtel Gadsden, AL On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 10:13 AM, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: <*>[Attachment(s) from Jim Heckard included below] Dr Diggers, Jake B,       I'm sending a number of pictures of a repaired 0-6-0 drive gear. By shaving the edges of the arms of the gear you can force brass washers on which will pull the split in the gear together without any glue. While I know I had some discussions on this site I also might have had some on another Yahoo site. I think I even made a drawing of the gear out of the saddle to show where to take edges down just enough to press the washers on.     This is the last repaired one I have in my box so I'll be keeping it for my reference. Since I am not feeling to good I can't take on trying to make more any. Hope the pictures are a start to see what can be done.       Don't forget to quarter the drivers and press  in the gear in the right positions the first time.                                                 Jim H <*>Attachment(s) from Jim Heckard: <*> 4 of 4 Photo(s) http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/attachments/folder/1631204445/item/list  <*> IMG_7326.JPG  <*> IMG_7327.JPG  <*> IMG_7328.JPG  <*> IMG_7329.JPG ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings:    Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to:    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join    (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email:    vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com    vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:    vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17483	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 10/14/2011
Subject: Fwd: Sampson Progress

Attachments : IMG_7336.JPG IMG_7333.JPG IMG_7332.JPG IMG_7330.JPG Was able to move forward a little but hit a snag from original builder. He cut the front end of the floor to sort and I have to build it up . For now I drilled one hole in front of nose so I can see exactly what I have to do. It will be filled in when I get front piece added to body to fit and hold the nose. The nose and the back wall must screw to the floor so that you can take it apart to pull off the body and get at the engine / drive. You can see that the back wall fit perfect and the body can push tight against it with no opening. Now I must build the front end of the body heavy enough since the nose will just have two openings but the front of the body will need to be tapped. Just the opposite of the back. ( floor has holes, back wall tapped 0 to make the nose fit perfect. After that is finished I will paint the body, nose , back wall and doors silver. Then the part I hate the worst. Installing window material. Jim H

@@attachment@@

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17484	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 10/14/2011
Subject: Re: Fwd: Sampson Progress [4 Attachments]

Hi Jim,   On line, this is really looking nice.  You are doing a great job with it.  I expect it to run around that layout of yours very well.   Take care,   Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim Heckard Sent: Friday, October 14, 2011 11:06 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Fwd: Sampson Progress [4 Attachments]     Was able to move forward a little but hit a snag from original builder. He cut the front end of the floor to sort and I have to build it up . For now I drilled one hole in front of nose so I can see exactly what I have to do. It will be filled in when I get front piece added to body to fit and hold the nose. The nose and the back wall must screw to the floor so that you can take it apart to pull off the body and get at the engine / drive. You can see that the back wall fit perfect and the body can push tight against it with no opening. Now I must build the front end of the body heavy enough since the nose will just have two openings but the front of the body will need to be tapped. Just the opposite of the back. ( floor has holes, back wall tapped 0 to make the nose fit perfect. After that is finished I will paint the body, nose , back wall and doors silver. Then the part I hate the worst. Installing window material. Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17486	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 10/14/2011
Subject: Re: New member seeking assistance with old Mantua

I'd like to suggest jacking up the old body and putting the new mech under her. It deserves it for hanging around all this time. Mike Bauers Sent from my iPhone On Oct 14, 2011, at 7:42 PM, "papasmurf" <papa.smurf5@...> wrote: > HI: Old geezer, returning to Hobby after very long lapse. Want to repair 60 yr.-old Mantua 0-6-0T, which has seen much better days. Have already tried yardbirdclassictrains.com; would have to buy a ton of new parts to get tank switcher back into serviceable condition. Would really rather find good original Mantua replacement loco; keep mine for parts. If anyone has one for sale, please contact me via private email. Thanks. TTFN. .....Old Tom aka papasmurf in NH > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17487	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 10/14/2011
Subject: Re: New member seeking assistance with old Mantua

Truthfully, if you watch eBay patiently, you can probably get one in good shape for about 20 bucks, INCLUDING shipping.  I frequently search HO for 0-4-0 and 0-6-0 and find there are a LOT of Mantua's going at very reasonable prices.  One must be careful and watch closely at what your getting.  Some of the later Mantua's really are not very good, in my opinion.  But, if you know what you are looking for, there are a bunch of good ones. One day, someone ought to put a little cheat sheet together to help us watch for which ones we don't want.  Such as the plastic boilers, and traction tired wheels.  I think all 0-6-0T's came die cast zamac. Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: papa.smurf5@... Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2011 00:42:49 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] New member seeking assistance with old Mantua   HI: Old geezer, returning to Hobby after very long lapse. Want to repair 60 yr.-old Mantua 0-6-0T, which has seen much better days. Have already tried yardbirdclassictrains.com; would have to buy a ton of new parts to get tank switcher back into serviceable condition. Would really rather find good original Mantua replacement loco; keep mine for parts. If anyone has one for sale, please contact me via private email. Thanks. TTFN. .....Old Tom aka papasmurf in NH

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17488	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 10/14/2011
Subject: Re: New member seeking assistance with old Mantua

I have an 0-6-0T Roundhouse....had a plastic boiler.....with a weight. Now has a die-cast boiler. Later Roundhouse steam have plastic driver centres and push-in plastic crankpins, so using a later one isn't in my future, I have a new 0-4-0 that was that way, had to get all new drivers to be acceptable...and an open-frame motor. > HI: Old geezer, returning to Hobby after very long lapse. Want to repair 60 yr.-old Mantua 0-6-0T, which has seen much better days. Have already tried yardbirdclassictrains.com; would have to buy a ton of new parts to get tank switcher back into serviceable condition. Would really rather find good original Mantua replacement loco; keep mine for parts. If anyone has one for sale, please contact me via private email. Thanks. TTFN. .....Old Tom aka papasmurf in NH >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17489	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 10/14/2011
Subject: Re: New member seeking assistance with old Mantua

I hate this. Sends before you're done. Rest of it is: I don't know if the Roundhouse would fit the Mantua or not....probably longer. I have a Mantua 0-6-0 with tender, but I don't think I have an 0-6-0 tank from Mantua....lots of 0-4-0s. What is wrong with your drive train? I know you said earlier the boiler was coming apart. The advice here is correct...if it's that bad, just buy another complete one off evilbait. (and why does yahoo keep thowing in letters and punctuation I don't type in? Gotta go back and fix it all before sending) > I have an 0-6-0T Roundhouse....had a plastic boiler.....with a weight. Now has a die-cast boiler. Later Roundhouse steam have plastic driver centres and push-in plastic crankpins, so using a later one isn't in my future, I have a new 0-4-0 that was that way, had to get all new drivers to be acceptable...and an open-frame motor. > > > HI: Old geezer, returning to Hobby after very long lapse. Want to repair 60 yr.-old Mantua 0-6-0T, which has seen much better days. Have already tried yardbirdclassictrains.com; would have to buy a ton of new parts to get tank switcher back into serviceable condition. Would really rather find good original Mantua replacement loco; keep mine for parts. If anyone has one for sale, please contact me via private email. Thanks. TTFN. .....Old Tom aka papasmurf in NH > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17490	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 10/14/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Smokey Joe Locomotive - 78 RPM Record?

Glenn (And all), This sounds like what I was thinking of. Been pretty much "out of service" this week. Was at the hospital on Tuesday afternoon for my weekly physical therapy (I have degenerative disc in my back and arthritis in my left knee), and while at therapy, my back popped real bad and I was unable to move. As I said, I was already at the hospital, so they wheeled me over to the E.R. and gave me a few shots for my back. On that note, I think the reason I was so mixed up on even the name of the Varney 0-4-0T was probably because of my as-needed pain meds. I try to take them only as a last resort as they do mess up parts of my memory! In any event, I wonder if that label of "Little Joe Goes to Town", which sounds like what I was thinking of, I wonder if there was an old tune by that name besides? I also vaguely remember the hat brim. I have a number of fedoras, which I wear most days with nice pants, a dress shirt, and a tie, and one of them would make for an interesting "layout". Then again, with the brim contour and shape, it would be very rough riding! -Steve Neubaum --- On Wed, 10/12/11, Glenn <glenn476@...> wrote: From: Glenn <glenn476@...> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Varney Smokey Joe Locomotive - 78 RPM Record? To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, October 12, 2011, 1:48 AM   I don’t know about an actual rrecord—what I had was a pressed-steel disc with regular, fiber-tie flex track mounted on it.  wires thru it hooked up to a power pack.  The “label” had the title, “Little Joe Goes to Town”   Glenn Joesten   From: Stephen Neubaum Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2011 5:13 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Varney Smokey Joe Locomotive - 78 RPM Record?   All, Bear in mind I am likely the youngest (active) member of this group, as 27 years old. Having said that, I have a question: I have heard of Varney's 0-4-0 docksider locomtotive referred to as the "Smokey Joe", and I remember, vaguely, hearing of a 78 RPM recording that the engine could turn on (78s, at least the popular recordings, are 10" diameter). Was there every a promotional 78 made in conjunction with the Varney loco? I want to say Varney showed the engine turning on a 78 (Wonder how the engine ran on shellac rails!), and the other side might have had a song called "Smokey Joe"? Anyone know any more about this? If such a 78 RPM record exists, I would be very interested in trying to find one! I do also collect, and regularly play 78s at home, got at least 700 of them now! A Varney record would work well into my collection, which includes many 10" discs from NBC, that they played on the air. Usually listen to them while working on my layout. As I said, I don't know the particulars of the advertising that Varney used for the Smokey Joe, and I have a hunch my memory is extrapolating (Incorrectly) details too. -Steve Neubaum

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17491	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 10/14/2011
Subject: Re: New member seeking assistance with old Mantua

I assume from looking at HO Seeker, that this is the 0-6-0T, the "Little Six" that shares a boiler casting with the "booster" 0-6-0T? I have the 0-4-0T Booster, got it for ten dollars at a flea market. Ran fairly well on initial test run, and runs very well now with the motor commutator cleaned, the motor bearings oiled, and the worm gear cleaned and greased. I also took the X2F Horn hook couplers off mine, and replaced them with loop couplers. The rear coupler probably could be converted to Kadees easily - it has a plastic plate that a small sheet metal pocket screws into. While the X2F pocket is much too thin for a Kadee, there is adequate space, it appears, for a #5. I still wanted Mantua Loop couplers anyway! Nice locos for switching and short transfer work. I do see them on eBay once in a while at very reasonable prices too. Mine is working an old Suydam Swift Meat plant, until I finish restoring a Penn Line "Whitcomb" diesel. Then I plan to use my Booster around a stockyard I am scratchbuilding out of stripwood. -Steve Neubaum --- On Fri, 10/14/11, papasmurf <papa.smurf5@...> wrote: From: papasmurf <papa.smurf5@...> Subject: [vintageHO] New member seeking assistance with old Mantua To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, October 14, 2011, 7:42 PM   HI: Old geezer, returning to Hobby after very long lapse. Want to repair 60 yr.-old Mantua 0-6-0T, which has seen much better days. Have already tried yardbirdclassictrains.com; would have to buy a ton of new parts to get tank switcher back into serviceable condition. Would really rather find good original Mantua replacement loco; keep mine for parts. If anyone has one for sale, please contact me via private email. Thanks. TTFN. .....Old Tom aka papasmurf in NH

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17492	From: papa.smurf5@myfairpoint.net	Date: 10/14/2011
Subject: Re: New member seeking assistance with old Mantua

HI: The problem is that body has severe corrosion & drive mechanism kaput, so finding a good running replacement is my best choice. TTFN.....papasmurf in NH On Fri, 14 Oct 2011 20:02:25 -0500, Mike Bauers wrote: I'd like to suggest jacking up the old body and putting the new mech under her. > > It deserves it for hanging around all this time. > > > Mike Bauers > Sent from my iPhone > > > On Oct 14, 2011, at 7:42 PM, "papasmurf" <papa.smurf5@...> wrote: > > > HI: Old geezer, returning to Hobby after very long lapse. Want to > repair 60 yr.-old Mantua 0-6-0T, which has seen much better days. > Have already tried yardbirdclassictrains.com; would have to buy a ton > of new parts to get tank switcher back into serviceable condition. > Would really rather find good original Mantua replacement loco; keep > mine for parts. If anyone has one for sale, please contact me via > private email. Thanks. TTFN. .....Old Tom aka papasmurf in NH > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17493	From: Glenn	Date: 10/14/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Smokey Joe Locomotive - 78 RPM Record?

I have just the hat—my old State Park Ranger Stetson  (“Smokey Bear hat”)  nice broad flat brim.   gj   From: Stephen Neubaum Sent: Friday, October 14, 2011 7:39 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Varney Smokey Joe Locomotive - 78 RPM Record?   Glenn (And all), This sounds like what I was thinking of. Been pretty much "out of service" this week. Was at the hospital on Tuesday afternoon for my weekly physical therapy (I have degenerative disc in my back and arthritis in my left knee), and while at therapy, my back popped real bad and I was unable to move. As I said, I was already at the hospital, so they wheeled me over to the E.R. and gave me a few shots for my back. On that note, I think the reason I was so mixed up on even the name of the Varney 0-4-0T was probably because of my as-needed pain meds. I try to take them only as a last resort as they do mess up parts of my memory! In any event, I wonder if that label of "Little Joe Goes to Town", which sounds like what I was thinking of, I wonder if there was an old tune by that name besides? I also vaguely remember the hat brim. I have a number of fedoras, which I wear most days with nice pants, a dress shirt, and a tie, and one of them would make for an interesting "layout". Then again, with the brim contour and shape, it would be very rough riding! -Steve Neubaum --- On Wed, 10/12/11, Glenn <glenn476@...> wrote: From: Glenn <glenn476@...> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Varney Smokey Joe Locomotive - 78 RPM Record? To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, October 12, 2011, 1:48 AM   I don’t know about an actual rrecord—what I had was a pressed-steel disc with regular, fiber-tie flex track mounted on it.  wires thru it hooked up to a power pack.  The “label” had the title, “Little Joe Goes to Town”   Glenn Joesten   From: Stephen Neubaum Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2011 5:13 PM To: wlmailhtml:/mc/compose?to=vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Varney Smokey Joe Locomotive - 78 RPM Record?   All, Bear in mind I am likely the youngest (active) member of this group, as 27 years old. Having said that, I have a question: I have heard of Varney's 0-4-0 docksider locomtotive referred to as the "Smokey Joe", and I remember, vaguely, hearing of a 78 RPM recording that the engine could turn on (78s, at least the popular recordings, are 10" diameter). Was there every a promotional 78 made in conjunction with the Varney loco? I want to say Varney showed the engine turning on a 78 (Wonder how the engine ran on shellac rails!), and the other side might have had a song called "Smokey Joe"? Anyone know any more about this? If such a 78 RPM record exists, I would be very interested in trying to find one! I do also collect, and regularly play 78s at home, got at least 700 of them now! A Varney record would work well into my collection, which includes many 10" discs from NBC, that they played on the air. Usually listen to them while working on my layout. As I said, I don't know the particulars of the advertising that Varney used for the Smokey Joe, and I have a hunch my memory is extrapolating (Incorrectly) details too. -Steve Neubaum

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17494	From: MRLENGAL2U@aol.com	Date: 10/15/2011
Subject: Re: New member seeking assistance with old Mantua

Just some information that someone may or may not be interested in... I had read that the Mantua 0 6 0 T was based on the 0 6 0's used by the Brooklyn Eastern District Terminal Railroad, a small Railroad that would do the switching around the New York and New Jersey harbors. If you Google Images for it, you can see examples of these locos. I think there is one saved at the Pennsylvania Railroad Museum.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17495	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 10/15/2011
Subject: Re: New member seeking assistance with old Mantua

Hi Tom, I can send you a good shell. I do not have time right now do fig out a good complete model. We are in the middle of a home remodel  What is wrong with your mechanism? Can you post a picture or two? Almost any cell phone is now able to take and send pictures.  Sean  Sent from my iPhone On Oct 14, 2011, at 8:42 PM, "papasmurf" <papa.smurf5@...> wrote:   HI: Old geezer, returning to Hobby after very long lapse. Want to repair 60 yr.-old Mantua 0-6-0T, which has seen much better days. Have already tried yardbirdclassictrains.com; would have to buy a ton of new parts to get tank switcher back into serviceable condition. Would really rather find good original Mantua replacement loco; keep mine for parts. If anyone has one for sale, please contact me via private email. Thanks. TTFN. .....Old Tom aka papasmurf in NH

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17496	From: Jens	Date: 10/15/2011
Subject: I am still deleting a former shop with N,HO,On30,O and G Scale Items

I am still deleting a former shop with N,HO,On30,O and G Scale Items Gentleman, I am stil deleting a former shop with N,HO,On30,O and G Scale items. Engines, Rolling Stock and Scenery Items I want to get rid of everything. If you are interested mail me back offline to oneto87@.yahoo.com Please let me know which Scale you are modeling and I sent you a list. Thanks Jens Kinne Owner of the yahoo Group oneto87 thanks to the moderator of this group for letting me post this

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17497	From: John Webster	Date: 10/15/2011
Subject: Re: New member seeking assistance with old Mantua

There is another option for old Mantua parts; Bowser. They have a stock of Mantua parts from screws and springs to boilers and frames. Get a list of the part numbers you need from your instruction sheet (if you don't have it you may be able to find it on HOseeker) and give them a call. The parts are not listed in their regular online catalog.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17498	From: william witte	Date: 10/18/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Super Berkshire

Sean,   Varney Super Kits were only advertised  for Pacifics, Consolidations and Mikados. It appears a talented molder kit bashed your Super Berk.   Bill From: Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> To: "vintageHO@yahoogroups.com" <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, October 7, 2011 7:25 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Varney Super Berkshire   Yes, That is the Berkshire, but it does not specify that it is the "Super" Berkshire with the rare V-2 motor. The single bad picture does not shoe it either. I have two other Berks and neither have the super option. I was just wondering if anyone could confirm that this was an offered model or did someone make one out of the Mikado chassis.   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: John H <sprinthag@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, October 7, 2011 2:28 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Varney Super Berkshire   There is another one on ebay right now with 8 hours left. One photo only but it looks good. BUT, the guy wants $200.00 to start. 8 hrs left and no bids........ Gee, ya think his starting bid is too high? Item 190584327392 John Hagen --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, <ckinzer@...> wrote: > > The 2-8-2 is Mantua (or Tyco). Fairly common I think. Older ones are all metal, later ones had plastic tender shells and cabs. These have what what I think is a unique boiler shape in HO models where it has partially straight sides no doubt to make it easier to make a mold to cast it. > > The 2-8-4 looks like a Varney 2400K Berkshire (1950-52 per Davud Spanagel's book "Greenberg's Guide to Varney Trains") but with a LOT of custom detailing. The basic boiler sure looks like the photo in the book. At first I thought the valve gear arrangement was a little different, but I think the photo in the book is of an unfinished assembly because the link that is supposed to connect to a semicircular valve gear arm that is part of the reverse scheme to lift the connecting rod in the reverse link isn't connected to anything and that semicircular arm is not in the photo. > > Chuck Kinzer > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Sean Naylor > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2011 7:27 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Varney Super Berkshire > > > > > Hi Guys, > > > Been away for a while. It has been hectic here lately with my Mother-in-law still in the hospital with a repaired (broken) hip, and a full blown home renovation / addition in full swing. We have added 4 rooms to our attic space, tearing off the roof and added 4 walls and a new roof. > > > Enough of that, I wanted to share a purchase to night that i never knew existed. Maybe Jim can shed some light on this... > > > http://www.ebay.com/itm/130583181780?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649 > > I am sorry if I outbid anyone here. I had to have this one, having never seen one before. > > > I'll get some better pictures when it gets here... > > > Sean > > > "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17499	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 10/18/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Super Berkshire

Clearly in HoSeeker there is a parts list for a "Deluxe" read Super Northern. It seems odd they would have bypassed the Berk going from 2-8-0 Super Consolie to 4-8-4 Super Northern, That however is not evidence, it's called "faith". I'd sure like for there to have been one, but I'll wait till I see a publication originating with Varney that delineates parts for it, or a specific parts diagram. A locomotive in hand I'm afraid does not meet the threshold as there are too many talented modellers out there to have "spoofed" one and GV Apopstle's as well who advocate for it. To all those hunting for the Varney Super Berk Holy Grail I wish you `Bon Chance! -Gareth On 18 October 2011 08:17, william witte <hmbb56@...> wrote:   Sean,   Varney Super Kits were only advertised  for Pacifics, Consolidations and Mikados. It appears a talented molder kit bashed your Super Berk.   Bill

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17500	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 10/18/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Super Berkshire

Hi Bill, Thanks for the info. I am confused though and I guess because I was not around then and do not know anyone personally involved with the Varney production back then, I always will be. I know I have seen two Super Northern locos, one was Jim H's and one was listed on ebay in kit form, (sort-of I think if I remember correctly). That one I think had an original gray steel box and all the parts were scattered in the photo and what could be clearly seen was the brass northern shell and the V-2 motor. It went pretty high, so I did not bid on that.  Jim states that the Northern was an uncataloged kit. I am inclined o believe him on that. I guess I am torn and equally inclined to believe that the possibility exists that this too could be an uncataloged model, but I admit it is more likely as you suggest, a kitbash. Either way though, after selling off the Mantua Mikado that came with it, my ~total investment will be ~$125 which I think is fair price for such a rare model, let alone one with a "Super" chassis, which in my mind, makes it a real bargain!   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: william witte <hmbb56@...> To: "vintageHO@yahoogroups.com" <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2011 8:17 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Varney Super Berkshire   Sean,   Varney Super Kits were only advertised  for Pacifics, Consolidations and Mikados. It appears a talented molder kit bashed your Super Berk.   Bill From: Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> To: "vintageHO@yahoogroups.com" <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, October 7, 2011 7:25 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Varney Super Berkshire   Yes, That is the Berkshire, but it does not specify that it is the "Super" Berkshire with the rare V-2 motor. The single bad picture does not shoe it either. I have two other Berks and neither have the super option. I was just wondering if anyone could confirm that this was an offered model or did someone make one out of the Mikado chassis.   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: John H <sprinthag@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, October 7, 2011 2:28 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Varney Super Berkshire   There is another one on ebay right now with 8 hours left. One photo only but it looks good. BUT, the guy wants $200.00 to start. 8 hrs left and no bids........ Gee, ya think his starting bid is too high? Item 190584327392 John Hagen --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, <ckinzer@...> wrote: > > The 2-8-2 is Mantua (or Tyco). Fairly common I think. Older ones are all metal, later ones had plastic tender shells and cabs. These have what what I think is a unique boiler shape in HO models where it has partially straight sides no doubt to make it easier to make a mold to cast it. > > The 2-8-4 looks like a Varney 2400K Berkshire (1950-52 per Davud Spanagel's book "Greenberg's Guide to Varney Trains") but with a LOT of custom detailing. The basic boiler sure looks like the photo in the book. At first I thought the valve gear arrangement was a little different, but I think the photo in the book is of an unfinished assembly because the link that is supposed to connect to a semicircular valve gear arm that is part of the reverse scheme to lift the connecting rod in the reverse link isn't connected to anything and that semicircular arm is not in the photo. > > Chuck Kinzer > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Sean Naylor > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2011 7:27 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Varney Super Berkshire > > > > > Hi Guys, > > > Been away for a while. It has been hectic here lately with my Mother-in-law still in the hospital with a repaired (broken) hip, and a full blown home renovation / addition in full swing. We have added 4 rooms to our attic space, tearing off the roof and added 4 walls and a new roof. > > > Enough of that, I wanted to share a purchase to night that i never knew existed. Maybe Jim can shed some light on this... > > > http://www.ebay.com/itm/130583181780?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649 > > I am sorry if I outbid anyone here. I had to have this one, having never seen one before. > > > I'll get some better pictures when it gets here... > > > Sean > > > "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17501	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 10/18/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Super Berkshire

Hey Sean: If/when you ever get the boiler off her, I'd like to see some shots of the frame/chassis and some dimensions if possible? This idea of uncatalogued, seems a bit "iffy" to me. The idea that they produced, or Mantua et al, something that what, fell at a production time after publication of that years merchandizing effort was published seems odd to me. Would they not have taken out supplementary ads in RMC and MR and the like? The parts sheet on HoSeeker for the Super Northern seems to be evidence. However it's a fairly easy to create piece of work based on the typeface. Again WHY, would they not-Varney have made an announcement somewhere that someone has? -Gareth On 18 October 2011 08:50, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote:   Hi Bill, Thanks for the info. I am confused though and I guess because I was not around then and do not know anyone personally involved with the Varney production back then, I always will be. I know I have seen two Super Northern locos, one was Jim H's and one was listed on ebay in kit form, (sort-of I think if I remember correctly). That one I think had an original gray steel box and all the parts were scattered in the photo and what could be clearly seen was the brass northern shell and the V-2 motor. It went pretty high, so I did not bid on that.  Jim states that the Northern was an uncataloged kit. I am inclined o believe him on that. I guess I am torn and equally inclined to believe that the possibility exists that this too could be an uncataloged model, but I admit it is more likely as you suggest, a kitbash. Either way though, after selling off the Mantua Mikado that came with it, my ~total investment will be ~$125 which I think is fair price for such a rare model, let alone one with a "Super" chassis, which in my mind, makes it a real bargain!   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: william witte <hmbb56@...> To: "vintageHO@yahoogroups.com" <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2011 8:17 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Varney Super Berkshire   Sean,   Varney Super Kits were only advertised  for Pacifics, Consolidations and Mikados. It appears a talented molder kit bashed your Super Berk.   Bill From: Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> To: "vintageHO@yahoogroups.com" <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, October 7, 2011 7:25 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Varney Super Berkshire   Yes, That is the Berkshire, but it does not specify that it is the "Super" Berkshire with the rare V-2 motor. The single bad picture does not shoe it either. I have two other Berks and neither have the super option. I was just wondering if anyone could confirm that this was an offered model or did someone make one out of the Mikado chassis.   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: John H <sprinthag@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, October 7, 2011 2:28 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Varney Super Berkshire   There is another one on ebay right now with 8 hours left. One photo only but it looks good. BUT, the guy wants $200.00 to start. 8 hrs left and no bids........ Gee, ya think his starting bid is too high? Item 190584327392 John Hagen --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, <ckinzer@...> wrote: > > The 2-8-2 is Mantua (or Tyco). Fairly common I think. Older ones are all metal, later ones had plastic tender shells and cabs. These have what what I think is a unique boiler shape in HO models where it has partially straight sides no doubt to make it easier to make a mold to cast it. > > The 2-8-4 looks like a Varney 2400K Berkshire (1950-52 per Davud Spanagel's book "Greenberg's Guide to Varney Trains") but with a LOT of custom detailing. The basic boiler sure looks like the photo in the book. At first I thought the valve gear arrangement was a little different, but I think the photo in the book is of an unfinished assembly because the link that is supposed to connect to a semicircular valve gear arm that is part of the reverse scheme to lift the connecting rod in the reverse link isn't connected to anything and that semicircular arm is not in the photo. > > Chuck Kinzer > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Sean Naylor > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2011 7:27 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Varney Super Berkshire > > > > > Hi Guys, > > > Been away for a while. It has been hectic here lately with my Mother-in-law still in the hospital with a repaired (broken) hip, and a full blown home renovation / addition in full swing. We have added 4 rooms to our attic space, tearing off the roof and added 4 walls and a new roof. > > > Enough of that, I wanted to share a purchase to night that i never knew existed. Maybe Jim can shed some light on this... > > > http://www.ebay.com/itm/130583181780?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649 > > I am sorry if I outbid anyone here. I had to have this one, having never seen one before. > > > I'll get some better pictures when it gets here... > > > Sean > > > "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! > -- "Clear Eyes, Full Heart, Can't Lose!"

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17502	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 10/18/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Smokey Joe Locomotive - 78 RPM Record?

My dad has been a professional with the Boy Scouts since the early 1970s, mostly working in the offices as a program director and coordinator. I think an old style Scoutmaster's hat would work too! Would be very interesting at Camp Ma Ka Ja Wan, where I spend lots of time during the summers; Our near-90-years-old assistant maintenance worker, is into trains too, I am sure he would love the idea! Might go well with Railroading merit badge. One could paint layout scenery into the green hat. -Steve Neubaum --- On Sat, 10/15/11, Glenn <glenn476@...> wrote: From: Glenn <glenn476@...> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Varney Smokey Joe Locomotive - 78 RPM Record? To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, October 15, 2011, 1:48 AM   I have just the hat—my old State Park Ranger Stetson  (“Smokey Bear hat”)  nice broad flat brim.   gj   From: Stephen Neubaum Sent: Friday, October 14, 2011 7:39 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Varney Smokey Joe Locomotive - 78 RPM Record?   Glenn (And all), This sounds like what I was thinking of. Been pretty much "out of service" this week. Was at the hospital on Tuesday afternoon for my weekly physical therapy (I have degenerative disc in my back and arthritis in my left knee), and while at therapy, my back popped real bad and I was unable to move. As I said, I was already at the hospital, so they wheeled me over to the E.R. and gave me a few shots for my back. On that note, I think the reason I was so mixed up on even the name of the Varney 0-4-0T was probably because of my as-needed pain meds. I try to take them only as a last resort as they do mess up parts of my memory! In any event, I wonder if that label of "Little Joe Goes to Town", which sounds like what I was thinking of, I wonder if there was an old tune by that name besides? I also vaguely remember the hat brim. I have a number of fedoras, which I wear most days with nice pants, a dress shirt, and a tie, and one of them would make for an interesting "layout". Then again, with the brim contour and shape, it would be very rough riding! -Steve Neubaum --- On Wed, 10/12/11, Glenn <glenn476@...> wrote: From: Glenn <glenn476@...> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Varney Smokey Joe Locomotive - 78 RPM Record? To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, October 12, 2011, 1:48 AM   I don’t know about an actual rrecord—what I had was a pressed-steel disc with regular, fiber-tie flex track mounted on it.  wires thru it hooked up to a power pack.  The “label” had the title, “Little Joe Goes to Town”   Glenn Joesten   From: Stephen Neubaum Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2011 5:13 PM To: wlmailhtml:/mc/compose?to=vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Varney Smokey Joe Locomotive - 78 RPM Record?   All, Bear in mind I am likely the youngest (active) member of this group, as 27 years old. Having said that, I have a question: I have heard of Varney's 0-4-0 docksider locomtotive referred to as the "Smokey Joe", and I remember, vaguely, hearing of a 78 RPM recording that the engine could turn on (78s, at least the popular recordings, are 10" diameter). Was there every a promotional 78 made in conjunction with the Varney loco? I want to say Varney showed the engine turning on a 78 (Wonder how the engine ran on shellac rails!), and the other side might have had a song called "Smokey Joe"? Anyone know any more about this? If such a 78 RPM record exists, I would be very interested in trying to find one! I do also collect, and regularly play 78s at home, got at least 700 of them now! A Varney record would work well into my collection, which includes many 10" discs from NBC, that they played on the air. Usually listen to them while working on my layout. As I said, I don't know the particulars of the advertising that Varney used for the Smokey Joe, and I have a hunch my memory is extrapolating (Incorrectly) details too. -Steve Neubaum

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17503	From: boxcar4willhe	Date: 10/21/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Smokey Joe Locomotive - 78 RPM Record?

Hi, I just picked up a "Little Joe" on ebay. I have wanted one since I saw the ads in the model railroad magazines years ago in sixth grade. There were also ads for the extra valve gear. Of course I wanted that too. This one doesn't have the extra gear but the price was right. I had to rewire what someone else messed up but it runs now. The extra gear probably would have made the job harder. Now I have to get couplers on it. BTW what kind of couplers would the old ones have had? I have a fair collection of the Varney metal side cars that I like to look at and now I can move them around with the Dockside. I like the forty foot box cars I used to see and photograph. When the big double door auto parts cars came along, freight trains became a lot less interesting to me. I still watch trains though. I am really not as old as this makes me sound. Thanks for listening. Lon Walker --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Glenn" <glenn476@...> wrote: > > also--Varney called the Dockside "Little Joe", not "Smokey Joe" > > gj > > -----Original Message----- > From: Don Dellmann > Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2011 8:26 PM > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Varney Smokey Joe Locomotive - 78 RPM Record? > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Stephen Neubaum" <computersystemrebuild@...> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2011 7:13 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Varney Smokey Joe Locomotive - 78 RPM Record? > > > > All, > > > > Bear in mind I am likely the youngest (active) member of this group, as 27 > > years old. Having said that, I have a question: > > > > I have heard of Varney's 0-4-0 docksider locomtotive referred to as the > > "Smokey Joe", and I remember, vaguely, hearing of a 78 RPM recording that > > the engine could turn on (78s, at least the popular recordings, are 10" > > diameter). Was there every a promotional 78 made in conjunction with the > > Varney loco? I want to say Varney showed the engine turning on a 78 > > (Wonder how the engine ran on shellac rails!), and the other side might > > have had a song called "Smokey Joe"? > > > > Anyone know any more about this? If such a 78 RPM record exists, I would > > be very interested in trying to find one! > > > > I do also collect, and regularly play 78s at home, got at least 700 of > > them now! A Varney record would work well into my collection, which > > includes many 10" discs from NBC, that they played on the air. Usually > > listen to them while working on my layout. > > > > As I said, I don't know the particulars of the advertising that Varney > > used for the Smokey Joe, and I have a hunch my memory is extrapolating > > (Incorrectly) details too. > > > > -Steve Neubaum > > > You've got me beat on 78's, only have a couple hundred that have been > archived to tape. I do more LP's and 45's (just shy of 5000 of each, 50's > and 60's Pop & rock, a lot of "big band" and a fair classical collection > courtesy of my mother when she went to CD's). > > As far as the Varney Dockside, it was called the "Little Joe", not the > "Smokey Joe". > > I do vaguely remember a Varney ad such as you speak of, but I don't recall > there was anything ever mentioned about the record itself. What was fairly > famous was a similar Mantua ad where they built a loop of track around the > brim of a lady's hat, said hat being worn by a popular actress of the time > (forget her name, it was not someone remembered today). > > Don > > Don Dellmann > don.dellmann@... > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ > http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction > Owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17504	From: boxcar4willhe	Date: 10/21/2011
Subject: What did I buy here?

Hi All, I bought this on ebay because it looked different and I haven't seen anything like them before. Have not received it yet. How about some input on exactly what I bought? Go to 250906894947. Thanks for any information. Lon Walker

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17506	From: papasmurf	Date: 10/21/2011
Subject: WTB: Mantua #754 valve gear kit for their HO switchers

HI FOLKS: Was informed this kit fits: Booster, Shifter, Little Six, Big Six. If anyone has these for sale/swap, please contact me off-list. TTFN. .....Old Tom aka papasmurf in NH

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17507	From: Rick Jones	Date: 10/21/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Smokey Joe Locomotive - 78 RPM Record?

On 10/21/2011 3:54 PM, boxcar4willhe wrote: > Hi, I just picked up a "Little Joe" on ebay. I have wanted one since > I saw the ads in the model railroad magazines years ago in sixth > grade. There were also ads for the extra valve gear. Of course I > wanted that too. This one doesn't have the extra gear but the price > was right. I had to rewire what someone else messed up but it runs > now. The extra gear probably would have made the job harder. Now I > have to get couplers on it. BTW what kind of couplers would the old > ones have had? I have a fair collection of the Varney metal side cars > that I like to look at and now I can move them around with the > Dockside. I like the forty foot box cars I used to see and > photograph. When the big double door auto parts cars came along, > freight trains became a lot less interesting to me. I still watch > trains though. I am really not as old as this makes me sound. Thanks > for listening. Lon Walker OK, now this name is getting somewhat confusing since the Milwaukee Road's EF-4 heavy electric locomotives are also known as Little Joes. -- Rick Jones For every action, there is an equal and opposite (and more often than not counter-intuitive) governmental program.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17508	From: ablecynic	Date: 10/22/2011
Subject: Re: What did I buy here?

Looks like the caption was fairly correct -- the loco is a rather beat-up AF HO scale NYC Hudson. Matt --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "boxcar4willhe" <wlon17@...> wrote: > > Hi All, I bought this on ebay because it looked different and I haven't seen anything like them before. Have not received it yet. How about some input on exactly what I bought? Go to 250906894947. Thanks for any information. Lon Walker >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17509	From: ablecynic	Date: 10/22/2011
Subject: Re: What did I buy here?

The cars appear to be kits, and some have Varney trucks. Wizards with better powers than me on this group can probably identify them. Matt --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "boxcar4willhe" <wlon17@...> wrote: > > Hi All, I bought this on ebay because it looked different and I haven't seen anything like them before. Have not received it yet. How about some input on exactly what I bought? Go to 250906894947. Thanks for any information. Lon Walker >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17510	From: jbark76	Date: 10/22/2011
Subject: Re: What did I buy here?

Megow: caboose, hopper and perhaps some of the refrigerator cars. The diner might be Ideal. I know the tank car too but I'm torn between Red Ball and Strombecker. -Jeff Barker-

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17511	From: ablecynic	Date: 10/22/2011
Subject: Re: What did I buy here?

Jeff, I thought this was discussed on this list before but I did a search and couldn't find it. As I recall, if the dome was wood, it was most likely Strombecker, if it was cast metal, it was probably Red Ball, but that is based on fading memory. Matt --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "jbark76" <jbark76@...> wrote: > > > Megow: caboose, hopper and perhaps some of the refrigerator cars. The diner might be Ideal. I know the tank car too but I'm torn between Red Ball and Strombecker. -Jeff Barker- >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17512	From: al45390	Date: 10/22/2011
Subject: What kind of coupler? [was: "What did I buy here?"]

Those are interesting couplers. Anyone have any information about them? Who made them, when, how well they operated? Is anyone in the group using them? The Gilbert Hudson is AC, pre-WWII, and it is missing its coupler (and a lot else), and I can't help wondering if at some point the same coupler was mounted somehow on the tender. Walter --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "ablecynic" <mattjcoleman@...> wrote: > > The cars appear to be kits, and some have Varney trucks. Wizards with better powers than me on this group can probably identify them. > > Matt > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "boxcar4willhe" <wlon17@> wrote: > > > > Hi All, I bought this on ebay because it looked different and I haven't seen anything like them before. Have not received it yet. How about some input on exactly what I bought? Go to 250906894947. Thanks for any information. Lon Walker > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17513	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 10/22/2011
Subject: Re: What kind of coupler? [was: "What did I buy here?"]

Those are indeed interesting couplers. I can say they made them in O scale too, as I once bought some O scale JC Models coaches that had them as well. Long time ago I got a pair of Varney reefers equipped with those couplers. Hobby shop owner was certain they were handmade. Apparently not. Would love to know the maker of 'em myself! -Steve Neubaum --- On Sat, 10/22/11, al45390 <bayerw2@...> wrote: From: al45390 <bayerw2@...> Subject: [vintageHO] What kind of coupler? [was: "What did I buy here?"] To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, October 22, 2011, 9:46 AM   Those are interesting couplers. Anyone have any information about them? Who made them, when, how well they operated? Is anyone in the group using them? The Gilbert Hudson is AC, pre-WWII, and it is missing its coupler (and a lot else), and I can't help wondering if at some point the same coupler was mounted somehow on the tender. Walter --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "ablecynic" <mattjcoleman@...> wrote: > > The cars appear to be kits, and some have Varney trucks. Wizards with better powers than me on this group can probably identify them. > > Matt > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "boxcar4willhe" <wlon17@> wrote: > > > > Hi All, I bought this on ebay because it looked different and I haven't seen anything like them before. Have not received it yet. How about some input on exactly what I bought? Go to 250906894947. Thanks for any information. Lon Walker > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17514	From: Dale Smith	Date: 10/22/2011
Subject: Re: What did I buy here?

Your locomotive is definitely Gilbert, probably a 112 or 200, both prewar models, as identified by the spur gear drive.   They were for the most part AC powered, except for a few 200's which were DC.  They also used a DC relay controlled reverse mechanism which could probably be triggered by a whistle button on a Lionel transformer.  Another variation to look for is the wheels, bakelite or diecast.  For photos of these locomotives, see www.gilbertho.org, but for details you might need if you want to restore this model I recommend Gary Klein's book on Gilbert HO.  More info regarding this book is on the above website. Dale On 10/21/2011 1:36 PM, boxcar4willhe wrote:   Hi All, I bought this on ebay because it looked different and I haven't seen anything like them before. Have not received it yet. How about some input on exactly what I bought? Go to 250906894947. Thanks for any information. Lon Walker

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17515	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 10/22/2011
Subject: Re: What kind of coupler? [was: "What did I buy here?"]

I've had them in the past too on models from the late 1940's. I too thought they were handmade but apparently not.. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephen Neubaum" <computersystemrebuild@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, October 22, 2011 10:05 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] What kind of coupler? [was: "What did I buy here?"] Those are indeed interesting couplers. I can say they made them in O scale too, as I once bought some O scale JC Models coaches that had them as well. Long time ago I got a pair of Varney reefers equipped with those couplers. Hobby shop owner was certain they were handmade. Apparently not. Would love to know the maker of 'em myself! -Steve Neubaum --- On Sat, 10/22/11, al45390 <bayerw2@...> wrote: From: al45390 <bayerw2@...> Subject: [vintageHO] What kind of coupler? [was: "What did I buy here?"] To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, October 22, 2011, 9:46 AM Those are interesting couplers. Anyone have any information about them? Who made them, when, how well they operated? Is anyone in the group using them? The Gilbert Hudson is AC, pre-WWII, and it is missing its coupler (and a lot else), and I can't help wondering if at some point the same coupler was mounted somehow on the tender. Walter --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "ablecynic" <mattjcoleman@...> wrote: > > The cars appear to be kits, and some have Varney trucks. Wizards with > better powers than me on this group can probably identify them. > > Matt > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "boxcar4willhe" <wlon17@> wrote: > > > > Hi All, I bought this on ebay because it looked different and I > > haven't seen anything like them before. Have not received it yet. How > > about some input on exactly what I bought? Go to 250906894947. Thanks > > for any information. Lon Walker > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17516	From: Garry Spear	Date: 10/22/2011
Subject: Re: What kind of coupler? [was: "What did I buy here?"]

They are Megow couplers, they also made HO kits from cardboard.  I used to have a pair in the original envelop.  I still have some cars in my collection with these couplers. Garry On Sat, Oct 22, 2011 at 10:46 AM, al45390 <bayerw2@...> wrote:   Those are interesting couplers. Anyone have any information about them? Who made them, when, how well they operated? Is anyone in the group using them? The Gilbert Hudson is AC, pre-WWII, and it is missing its coupler (and a lot else), and I can't help wondering if at some point the same coupler was mounted somehow on the tender. Walter --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "ablecynic" <mattjcoleman@...> wrote: > > The cars appear to be kits, and some have Varney trucks. Wizards with better powers than me on this group can probably identify them. > > Matt > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "boxcar4willhe" <wlon17@> wrote: > > > > Hi All, I bought this on ebay because it looked different and I haven't seen anything like them before. Have not received it yet. How about some input on exactly what I bought? Go to 250906894947. Thanks for any information. Lon Walker > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17517	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 10/22/2011
Subject: Re: What kind of coupler? [was: "What did I buy here?"]

Megow? Are you sure? My experience with their couplers, is limited to what is shown here: http://hoseeker.net/megow/megowcatalog1940pg07.jpg As I mentioned, these strange couplers were also made in a larger version for O scale models. I didn't think Megow did O scale? -Steve Neubaum --- On Sat, 10/22/11, Garry Spear <garrettspear@...> wrote: From: Garry Spear <garrettspear@...> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] What kind of coupler? [was: "What did I buy here?"] To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, October 22, 2011, 2:32 PM   They are Megow couplers, they also made HO kits from cardboard.  I used to have a pair in the original envelop.  I still have some cars in my collection with these couplers. Garry On Sat, Oct 22, 2011 at 10:46 AM, al45390 <bayerw2@...> wrote:   Those are interesting couplers. Anyone have any information about them? Who made them, when, how well they operated? Is anyone in the group using them? The Gilbert Hudson is AC, pre-WWII, and it is missing its coupler (and a lot else), and I can't help wondering if at some point the same coupler was mounted somehow on the tender. Walter --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "ablecynic" <mattjcoleman@...> wrote: > > The cars appear to be kits, and some have Varney trucks. Wizards with better powers than me on this group can probably identify them. > > Matt > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "boxcar4willhe" <wlon17@> wrote: > > > > Hi All, I bought this on ebay because it looked different and I haven't seen anything like them before. Have not received it yet. How about some input on exactly what I bought? Go to 250906894947. Thanks for any information. Lon Walker > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17518	From: boxcar4willhe	Date: 10/22/2011
Subject: Re: What kind of coupler? [was: "What did I buy here?"]

Hi all, Wow Megow, Ideal and Redball. I have a lot to research here. I never heard of Megow before. I knew the couplers looked odd. I thought I could tell by the pictures that the cars had cardboard sides. I was thinking early Varney but I am just starting to study very early HO. Thanks for the replys and keep them coming. Thanks Lon --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Garry Spear <garrettspear@...> wrote: > > They are Megow couplers, they also made HO kits from cardboard. I used to > have a pair in the original envelop. I still have some cars in my > collection with these couplers. > > Garry > > On Sat, Oct 22, 2011 at 10:46 AM, al45390 <bayerw2@...> wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > Those are interesting couplers. Anyone have any information about them? Who > > made them, when, how well they operated? Is anyone in the group using them? > > > > The Gilbert Hudson is AC, pre-WWII, and it is missing its coupler (and a > > lot else), and I can't help wondering if at some point the same coupler was > > mounted somehow on the tender. > > > > Walter > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "ablecynic" <mattjcoleman@> wrote: > > > > > > The cars appear to be kits, and some have Varney trucks. Wizards with > > better powers than me on this group can probably identify them. > > > > > > Matt > > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "boxcar4willhe" <wlon17@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi All, I bought this on ebay because it looked different and I haven't > > seen anything like them before. Have not received it yet. How about some > > input on exactly what I bought? Go to 250906894947. Thanks for any > > information. Lon Walker > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17519	From: boxcar4willhe	Date: 10/22/2011
Subject: Re: What did I buy here?

Hi Dale and All, I had no idea that Gilbert made AC spur gear HO. This is very interesting to me. I can't wait to test this out. I welcome more comments from the group. Now some questions. Is this locomotive worth fixing up? Are the parts available some where? Would this be an expensive restoration? Thanks for any information. Lon Walker --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Dale Smith <dfsmith26@...> wrote: > > Your locomotive is definitely Gilbert, probably a 112 or 200, both > prewar models, as identified by the spur gear drive. They were for the > most part AC powered, except for a few 200's which were DC. They also > used a DC relay controlled reverse mechanism which could probably be > triggered by a whistle button on a Lionel transformer. Another > variation to look for is the wheels, bakelite or diecast. For photos of > these locomotives, see www.gilbertho.org, but for details you might need > if you want to restore this model I recommend Gary Klein's book on > Gilbert HO. More info regarding this book is on the above website. > > Dale > > On 10/21/2011 1:36 PM, boxcar4willhe wrote: > > > > Hi All, I bought this on ebay because it looked different and I > > haven't seen anything like them before. Have not received it yet. How > > about some input on exactly what I bought? Go to 250906894947. Thanks > > for any information. Lon Walker > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17520	From: boxcar4willhe	Date: 10/22/2011
Subject: Re: What did I buy here?

Hi again, I forgot to ask. Can anyone tell what the metal ,brass?, pieces are used for? Lon --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "boxcar4willhe" <wlon17@...> wrote: > > > > Hi Dale and All, I had no idea that Gilbert made AC spur gear HO. This is very interesting to me. I can't wait to test this out. I welcome more comments from the group. Now some questions. Is this locomotive worth fixing up? Are the parts available some where? Would this be an expensive restoration? Thanks for any information. Lon Walker > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Dale Smith <dfsmith26@> wrote: > > > > Your locomotive is definitely Gilbert, probably a 112 or 200, both > > prewar models, as identified by the spur gear drive. They were for the > > most part AC powered, except for a few 200's which were DC. They also > > used a DC relay controlled reverse mechanism which could probably be > > triggered by a whistle button on a Lionel transformer. Another > > variation to look for is the wheels, bakelite or diecast. For photos of > > these locomotives, see www.gilbertho.org, but for details you might need > > if you want to restore this model I recommend Gary Klein's book on > > Gilbert HO. More info regarding this book is on the above website. > > > > Dale > > > > On 10/21/2011 1:36 PM, boxcar4willhe wrote: > > > > > > Hi All, I bought this on ebay because it looked different and I > > > haven't seen anything like them before. Have not received it yet. How > > > about some input on exactly what I bought? Go to 250906894947. Thanks > > > for any information. Lon Walker > > > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17521	From: Charles	Date: 10/22/2011
Subject: Re: What kind of coupler? [was: "What did I buy here?"]

I guess I couldn't see much in the ebay photo to get an idea what they looked like. But just to throw some more coupler info into the mix: There was the Baker coupler which is what John Allen actually used. There is a good writeup at the gdlines site on it: http://www.gdlines.com/baker.html This page also mentions and has links to a couple of other coupler types. Also, Tenshodo made a coupler that was extremely similar to the Baker coupler, but not quite the same. Chuck Kinzer --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "boxcar4willhe" <wlon17@...> wrote: > > > > > > > Hi all, Wow Megow, Ideal and Redball. I have a lot to research here. I never heard of Megow before. I knew the couplers looked odd. I thought I could tell by the pictures that the cars had cardboard sides. I was thinking early Varney but I am just starting to study very early HO. Thanks for the replys and keep them coming. Thanks Lon > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Garry Spear <garrettspear@> wrote: > > > > They are Megow couplers, they also made HO kits from cardboard. I used to > > have a pair in the original envelop. I still have some cars in my > > collection with these couplers. > > > > Garry > > > > On Sat, Oct 22, 2011 at 10:46 AM, al45390 <bayerw2@> wrote: > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > Those are interesting couplers. Anyone have any information about them? Who > > > made them, when, how well they operated? Is anyone in the group using them? > > > > > > The Gilbert Hudson is AC, pre-WWII, and it is missing its coupler (and a > > > lot else), and I can't help wondering if at some point the same coupler was > > > mounted somehow on the tender. > > > > > > Walter > > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "ablecynic" <mattjcoleman@> wrote: > > > > > > > > The cars appear to be kits, and some have Varney trucks. Wizards with > > > better powers than me on this group can probably identify them. > > > > > > > > Matt > > > > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "boxcar4willhe" <wlon17@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hi All, I bought this on ebay because it looked different and I haven't > > > seen anything like them before. Have not received it yet. How about some > > > input on exactly what I bought? Go to 250906894947. Thanks for any > > > information. Lon Walker > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17522	From: Garry Spear	Date: 10/22/2011
Subject: Re: What kind of coupler? [was: "What did I buy here?"]

It's what I remember from 60 years ago, and have been referring to them a Megow.  I'll have to find an original package to be sure.  They use a ramp uncoupler, like Mantua, for uncoupling. Garry On Sat, Oct 22, 2011 at 4:36 PM, Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote:   Megow? Are you sure? My experience with their couplers, is limited to what is shown here: http://hoseeker.net/megow/megowcatalog1940pg07.jpg As I mentioned, these strange couplers were also made in a larger version for O scale models. I didn't think Megow did O scale? -Steve Neubaum --- On Sat, 10/22/11, Garry Spear <garrettspear@...> wrote: From: Garry Spear <garrettspear@...> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] What kind of coupler? [was: "What did I buy here?"] To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, October 22, 2011, 2:32 PM   They are Megow couplers, they also made HO kits from cardboard.  I used to have a pair in the original envelop.  I still have some cars in my collection with these couplers. Garry On Sat, Oct 22, 2011 at 10:46 AM, al45390 <bayerw2@...> wrote:   Those are interesting couplers. Anyone have any information about them? Who made them, when, how well they operated? Is anyone in the group using them? The Gilbert Hudson is AC, pre-WWII, and it is missing its coupler (and a lot else), and I can't help wondering if at some point the same coupler was mounted somehow on the tender. Walter --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "ablecynic" <mattjcoleman@...> wrote: > > The cars appear to be kits, and some have Varney trucks. Wizards with better powers than me on this group can probably identify them. > > Matt > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "boxcar4willhe" <wlon17@> wrote: > > > > Hi All, I bought this on ebay because it looked different and I haven't seen anything like them before. Have not received it yet. How about some input on exactly what I bought? Go to 250906894947. Thanks for any information. Lon Walker > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17523	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 10/22/2011
Subject: Re: What kind of coupler? [was: "What did I buy here?"]

Chuck, There are a lot of pix on the eBay page. Just go down the page. You'll see the couplers very clearly. On Sat, Oct 22, 2011 at 6:57 PM, Charles <ckinzer@...> wrote:   I guess I couldn't see much in the ebay photo to get an idea what they looked like. But just to throw some more coupler info into the mix: There was the Baker coupler which is what John Allen actually used. There is a good writeup at the gdlines site on it: http://www.gdlines.com/baker.html This page also mentions and has links to a couple of other coupler types. Also, Tenshodo made a coupler that was extremely similar to the Baker coupler, but not quite the same. Chuck Kinzer --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "boxcar4willhe" <wlon17@...> wrote: > > > > > > > Hi all, Wow Megow, Ideal and Redball. I have a lot to research here. I never heard of Megow before. I knew the couplers looked odd. I thought I could tell by the pictures that the cars had cardboard sides. I was thinking early Varney but I am just starting to study very early HO. Thanks for the replys and keep them coming. Thanks Lon > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Garry Spear <garrettspear@> wrote: > > > > They are Megow couplers, they also made HO kits from cardboard. I used to > > have a pair in the original envelop. I still have some cars in my > > collection with these couplers. > > > > Garry > > > > On Sat, Oct 22, 2011 at 10:46 AM, al45390 <bayerw2@> wrote: > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > Those are interesting couplers. Anyone have any information about them? Who > > > made them, when, how well they operated? Is anyone in the group using them? > > > > > > The Gilbert Hudson is AC, pre-WWII, and it is missing its coupler (and a > > > lot else), and I can't help wondering if at some point the same coupler was > > > mounted somehow on the tender. > > > > > > Walter > > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "ablecynic" <mattjcoleman@> wrote: > > > > > > > > The cars appear to be kits, and some have Varney trucks. Wizards with > > > better powers than me on this group can probably identify them. > > > > > > > > Matt > > > > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "boxcar4willhe" <wlon17@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hi All, I bought this on ebay because it looked different and I haven't > > > seen anything like them before. Have not received it yet. How about some > > > input on exactly what I bought? Go to 250906894947. Thanks for any > > > information. Lon Walker > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- Regards, Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17524	From: Charles	Date: 10/22/2011
Subject: Re: What kind of coupler? [was: "What did I buy here?"]

I see them now. I was too stupid to scroll down and I know better. I've never seen this type of coupler. Believe it or not, there is an HO coupler Yahoo group, http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mrcouplers/, but they may be mainly involved with modern coupler operation. Chuck Kinzer --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Walter Bayer II <bayerw2@...> wrote: > > Chuck, > > There are a lot of pix on the eBay page. Just go down the page. You'll see > the couplers very clearly. > > On Sat, Oct 22, 2011 at 6:57 PM, Charles <ckinzer@...> wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > I guess I couldn't see much in the ebay photo to get an idea what they > > looked like. > > > > But just to throw some more coupler info into the mix: There was the Baker > > coupler which is what John Allen actually used. There is a good writeup at > > the gdlines site on it: > > > > http://www.gdlines.com/baker.html > > > > This page also mentions and has links to a couple of other coupler types. > > > > Also, Tenshodo made a coupler that was extremely similar to the Baker > > coupler, but not quite the same. > > > > Chuck Kinzer > > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "boxcar4willhe" <wlon17@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi all, Wow Megow, Ideal and Redball. I have a lot to research here. I > > never heard of Megow before. I knew the couplers looked odd. I thought I > > could tell by the pictures that the cars had cardboard sides. I was thinking > > early Varney but I am just starting to study very early HO. Thanks for the > > replys and keep them coming. Thanks Lon > > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Garry Spear <garrettspear@> wrote: > > > > > > > > They are Megow couplers, they also made HO kits from cardboard. I used > > to > > > > have a pair in the original envelop. I still have some cars in my > > > > collection with these couplers. > > > > > > > > Garry > > > > > > > > On Sat, Oct 22, 2011 at 10:46 AM, al45390 <bayerw2@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Those are interesting couplers. Anyone have any information about > > them? Who > > > > > made them, when, how well they operated? Is anyone in the group using > > them? > > > > > > > > > > The Gilbert Hudson is AC, pre-WWII, and it is missing its coupler > > (and a > > > > > lot else), and I can't help wondering if at some point the same > > coupler was > > > > > mounted somehow on the tender. > > > > > > > > > > Walter > > > > > > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "ablecynic" <mattjcoleman@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > The cars appear to be kits, and some have Varney trucks. Wizards > > with > > > > > better powers than me on this group can probably identify them. > > > > > > > > > > > > Matt > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "boxcar4willhe" <wlon17@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi All, I bought this on ebay because it looked different and I > > haven't > > > > > seen anything like them before. Have not received it yet. How about > > some > > > > > input on exactly what I bought? Go to 250906894947. Thanks for any > > > > > information. Lon Walker > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > Regards, > Walter >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17525	From: Lon Walker	Date: 10/22/2011
Subject: Re: What kind of coupler? [was: "What did I buy here?"]

Hi Chuck,  Did you scroll down on the ebay  page?  There are several nice big pictures at the bottom.  Lon From: Charles <ckinzer@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, October 22, 2011 5:57 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: What kind of coupler? [was: "What did I buy here?"]   I guess I couldn't see much in the ebay photo to get an idea what they looked like. But just to throw some more coupler info into the mix: There was the Baker coupler which is what John Allen actually used. There is a good writeup at the gdlines site on it: http://www.gdlines.com/baker.html This page also mentions and has links to a couple of other coupler types. Also, Tenshodo made a coupler that was extremely similar to the Baker coupler, but not quite the same. Chuck Kinzer --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "boxcar4willhe" <wlon17@...> wrote: > > > > > > > Hi all, Wow Megow, Ideal and Redball. I have a lot to research here. I never heard of Megow before. I knew the couplers looked odd. I thought I could tell by the pictures that the cars had cardboard sides. I was thinking early Varney but I am just starting to study very early HO. Thanks for the replys and keep them coming. Thanks Lon > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Garry Spear <garrettspear@> wrote: > > > > They are Megow couplers, they also made HO kits from cardboard. I used to > > have a pair in the original envelop. I still have some cars in my > > collection with these couplers. > > > > Garry > > > > On Sat, Oct 22, 2011 at 10:46 AM, al45390 <bayerw2@> wrote: > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > Those are interesting couplers. Anyone have any information about them? Who > > > made them, when, how well they operated? Is anyone in the group using them? > > > > > > The Gilbert Hudson is AC, pre-WWII, and it is missing its coupler (and a > > > lot else), and I can't help wondering if at some point the same coupler was > > > mounted somehow on the tender. > > > > > > Walter > > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "ablecynic" <mattjcoleman@> wrote: > > > > > > > > The cars appear to be kits, and some have Varney trucks. Wizards with > > > better powers than me on this group can probably identify them. > > > > > > > > Matt > > > > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "boxcar4willhe" <wlon17@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hi All, I bought this on ebay because it looked different and I haven't > > > seen anything like them before. Have not received it yet. How about some > > > input on exactly what I bought? Go to 250906894947. Thanks for any > > > information. Lon Walker > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17526	From: boxcar4willhe	Date: 10/22/2011
Subject: Re: What did I buy here?

Hi Dale and All. The trains came today and I took lots of pictures. Just judging from the cab windows, I think the engine is a 112. I tried to power it up but only get clicks from the reverser in the tender. The tender top has a small hole that I believe is a way to manually reverse it, if it is like the 0 gauge RDC units. I will have to clean it up and inspect it. I have hopes of running it. This is definitely a spur gear unit. Shouldn't I be able to turn the wheels freely with out power as with 0 gauge??? More later. Lon Walker --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Dale Smith <dfsmith26@...> wrote: > > Your locomotive is definitely Gilbert, probably a 112 or 200, both > prewar models, as identified by the spur gear drive. They were for the > most part AC powered, except for a few 200's which were DC. They also > used a DC relay controlled reverse mechanism which could probably be > triggered by a whistle button on a Lionel transformer. Another > variation to look for is the wheels, bakelite or diecast. For photos of > these locomotives, see www.gilbertho.org, but for details you might need > if you want to restore this model I recommend Gary Klein's book on > Gilbert HO. More info regarding this book is on the above website. > > Dale > > On 10/21/2011 1:36 PM, boxcar4willhe wrote: > > > > Hi All, I bought this on ebay because it looked different and I > > haven't seen anything like them before. Have not received it yet. How > > about some input on exactly what I bought? Go to 250906894947. Thanks > > for any information. Lon Walker > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17527	From: boxcar4willhe	Date: 10/22/2011
Subject: Re: What kind of coupler? [was: "What did I buy here?"]

Hi Garry and All, The trains came today and I have been inspecting and photographing them. The couplers work very well and I can see that they are set up for an uncoupling ramp. They slightly remind me of American Flyer S link couplers in that they have the hook and the bar. For uncouping they have a sort of spring action. Most of the cars actually look better than in the blown up pictures on ebay. I wish all the cars had trucks and couplers. The dome of the tank car seems to be die cast. More later. Lon Walker --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Garry Spear <garrettspear@...> wrote: > > It's what I remember from 60 years ago, and have been referring to them a > Megow. I'll have to find an original package to be sure. They use a ramp > uncoupler, like Mantua, for uncoupling. > > Garry > > On Sat, Oct 22, 2011 at 4:36 PM, Stephen Neubaum < > computersystemrebuild@...> wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > Megow? Are you sure? My experience with their couplers, is limited to what > > is shown here: > > > > http://hoseeker.net/megow/megowcatalog1940pg07.jpg > > > > As I mentioned, these strange couplers were also made in a larger version > > for O scale models. I didn't think Megow did O scale? > > > > -Steve Neubaum > > > > --- On *Sat, 10/22/11, Garry Spear <garrettspear@...>* wrote: > > > > > > From: Garry Spear <garrettspear@...> > > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] What kind of coupler? [was: "What did I buy > > here?"] > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Saturday, October 22, 2011, 2:32 PM > > > > > > > > They are Megow couplers, they also made HO kits from cardboard. I used to > > have a pair in the original envelop. I still have some cars in my > > collection with these couplers. > > > > Garry > > > > On Sat, Oct 22, 2011 at 10:46 AM, al45390 <bayerw2@...<http://mc/compose?to=bayerw2@...> > > > wrote: > > > > ** > > > > > > Those are interesting couplers. Anyone have any information about them? Who > > made them, when, how well they operated? Is anyone in the group using them? > > > > The Gilbert Hudson is AC, pre-WWII, and it is missing its coupler (and a > > lot else), and I can't help wondering if at some point the same coupler was > > mounted somehow on the tender. > > > > Walter > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com<http://mc/compose?to=vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com>, > > "ablecynic" <mattjcoleman@> wrote: > > > > > > The cars appear to be kits, and some have Varney trucks. Wizards with > > better powers than me on this group can probably identify them. > > > > > > Matt > > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com<http://mc/compose?to=vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com>, > > "boxcar4willhe" <wlon17@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi All, I bought this on ebay because it looked different and I haven't > > seen anything like them before. Have not received it yet. How about some > > input on exactly what I bought? Go to 250906894947. Thanks for any > > information. Lon Walker > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17528	From: John Webster	Date: 10/23/2011
Subject: Re: WTB: Mantua #754 valve gear kit for their HO switchers

Give Bowser a call, they may still have these in stock.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17529	From: Andrew Emmerson	Date: 10/23/2011
Subject: Re: What kind of coupler? [was: "What did I buy here?"]

>  Also, Tenshodo made a coupler that was extremely similar to the Baker coupler, but not quite the same.   These are still available in Japan, although perhaps not very widely.   Andy Emmerson.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17530	From: DOM ST.JOHN	Date: 10/23/2011
Subject: Re: What did I buy here?

Right on the 112. The windows do identify it as the 40, 41 Hudson. Pretty sure the coupler on the truck is another clue. The hole on the tender is for manual reversing. And right again that you should be able to turn the wheels by hand. Looking at the pictures shows cracks in the pilot. A clear case of the classic metal fatigue found in some of the early engines. Often the tenders are found with the same issue. Some interesting stuff in that group. Dom From: boxcar4willhe <wlon17@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, October 22, 2011 9:49:48 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: What did I buy here?   Hi Dale and All. The trains came today and I took lots of pictures. Just judging from the cab windows, I think the engine is a 112. I tried to power it up but only get clicks from the reverser in the tender. The tender top has a small hole that I believe is a way to manually reverse it, if it is like the 0 gauge RDC units. I will have to clean it up and inspect it. I have hopes of running it. This is definitely a spur gear unit. Shouldn't I be able to turn the wheels freely with out power as with 0 gauge??? More later. Lon Walker --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Dale Smith <dfsmith26@...> wrote: > > Your locomotive is definitely Gilbert, probably a 112 or 200, both > prewar models, as identified by the spur gear drive. They were for the > most part AC powered, except for a few 200's which were DC. They also > used a DC relay controlled reverse mechanism which could probably be > triggered by a whistle button on a Lionel transformer. Another > variation to look for is the wheels, bakelite or diecast. For photos of > these locomotives, see www.gilbertho.org, but for details you might need > if you want to restore this model I recommend Gary Klein's book on > Gilbert HO. More info regarding this book is on the above website. > > Dale > > On 10/21/2011 1:36 PM, boxcar4willhe wrote: > > > > Hi All, I bought this on ebay because it looked different and I > > haven't seen anything like them before. Have not received it yet. How > > about some input on exactly what I bought? Go to 250906894947. Thanks > > for any information. Lon Walker > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17531	From: boxcar4willhe	Date: 10/23/2011
Subject: Re: What did I buy here?

You may be right about the pilot or the cow catcher was just broken off. The part you mentioned is a separate piece. The rest of the boiler looks fine. Now I have to see what is keeping the wheels from turning. I had no problem removing the tender shell and it looks like the wiring is fine in there and the reverser cycles fine either manually or by using a whistle button on a ZW. My problem now is that I can't seem to get the boiler shell off. The long screw in front releases the plastic boiler front but not much else. I tried a screw about 1/2 " long screw at the side and under the cab side skirt with no effect. I don't see anything else to release it unless that opening on the side is like a pin on Lionel 0 gauge. There may be allen wrench type opening there. Not sure. Any suggestions? Thanks. Lon --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "DOM ST.JOHN" <jsangiovanni@...> wrote: > > Right on the 112. The windows do identify it as the 40, 41 Hudson. Pretty sure > the coupler on the truck is another clue. The hole on the tender is for manual > reversing. And right again that you should be able to turn the wheels by hand. > Looking at the pictures shows cracks in the pilot. A clear case of the classic > metal fatigue found in some of the early engines. Often the tenders are found > with the same issue. Some interesting stuff in that group. > Dom > > > > > ________________________________ > From: boxcar4willhe <wlon17@...> > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sat, October 22, 2011 9:49:48 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: What did I buy here? > > > > > Hi Dale and All. The trains came today and I took lots of pictures. Just > judging from the cab windows, I think the engine is a 112. I tried to power it > up but only get clicks from the reverser in the tender. The tender top has a > small hole that I believe is a way to manually reverse it, if it is like the 0 > gauge RDC units. I will have to clean it up and inspect it. I have hopes of > running it. This is definitely a spur gear unit. Shouldn't I be able to turn the > wheels freely with out power as with 0 gauge??? More later. Lon Walker > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Dale Smith <dfsmith26@> wrote: > > > > Your locomotive is definitely Gilbert, probably a 112 or 200, both > > prewar models, as identified by the spur gear drive. They were for the > > most part AC powered, except for a few 200's which were DC. They also > > used a DC relay controlled reverse mechanism which could probably be > > triggered by a whistle button on a Lionel transformer. Another > > variation to look for is the wheels, bakelite or diecast. For photos of > > these locomotives, see www.gilbertho.org, but for details you might need > > if you want to restore this model I recommend Gary Klein's book on > > Gilbert HO. More info regarding this book is on the above website. > > > > Dale > > > > On 10/21/2011 1:36 PM, boxcar4willhe wrote: > > > > > > Hi All, I bought this on ebay because it looked different and I > > > haven't seen anything like them before. Have not received it yet. How > > > about some input on exactly what I bought? Go to 250906894947. Thanks > > > for any information. Lon Walker > > > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17532	From: DOM ST.JOHN	Date: 10/23/2011
Subject: Re: What did I buy here?

Look inside the cab, you may see a screw inside center area. That should do it. Dom From: boxcar4willhe <wlon17@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, October 23, 2011 2:03:01 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: What did I buy here?   You may be right about the pilot or the cow catcher was just broken off. The part you mentioned is a separate piece. The rest of the boiler looks fine. Now I have to see what is keeping the wheels from turning. I had no problem removing the tender shell and it looks like the wiring is fine in there and the reverser cycles fine either manually or by using a whistle button on a ZW. My problem now is that I can't seem to get the boiler shell off. The long screw in front releases the plastic boiler front but not much else. I tried a screw about 1/2 " long screw at the side and under the cab side skirt with no effect. I don't see anything else to release it unless that opening on the side is like a pin on Lionel 0 gauge. There may be allen wrench type opening there. Not sure. Any suggestions? Thanks. Lon --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "DOM ST.JOHN" <jsangiovanni@...> wrote: > > Right on the 112. The windows do identify it as the 40, 41 Hudson. Pretty sure > the coupler on the truck is another clue. The hole on the tender is for manual > reversing. And right again that you should be able to turn the wheels by hand. > Looking at the pictures shows cracks in the pilot. A clear case of the classic > metal fatigue found in some of the early engines. Often the tenders are found > with the same issue. Some interesting stuff in that group. > Dom > > > > > ________________________________ > From: boxcar4willhe <wlon17@...> > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sat, October 22, 2011 9:49:48 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: What did I buy here? > > > > > Hi Dale and All. The trains came today and I took lots of pictures. Just > judging from the cab windows, I think the engine is a 112. I tried to power it > up but only get clicks from the reverser in the tender. The tender top has a > small hole that I believe is a way to manually reverse it, if it is like the 0 > gauge RDC units. I will have to clean it up and inspect it. I have hopes of > running it. This is definitely a spur gear unit. Shouldn't I be able to turn the > wheels freely with out power as with 0 gauge??? More later. Lon Walker > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Dale Smith <dfsmith26@> wrote: > > > > Your locomotive is definitely Gilbert, probably a 112 or 200, both > > prewar models, as identified by the spur gear drive. They were for the > > most part AC powered, except for a few 200's which were DC. They also > > used a DC relay controlled reverse mechanism which could probably be > > triggered by a whistle button on a Lionel transformer. Another > > variation to look for is the wheels, bakelite or diecast. For photos of > > these locomotives, see www.gilbertho.org, but for details you might need > > if you want to restore this model I recommend Gary Klein's book on > > Gilbert HO. More info regarding this book is on the above website. > > > > Dale > > > > On 10/21/2011 1:36 PM, boxcar4willhe wrote: > > > > > > Hi All, I bought this on ebay because it looked different and I > > > haven't seen anything like them before. Have not received it yet. How > > > about some input on exactly what I bought? Go to 250906894947. Thanks > > > for any information. Lon Walker > > > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17533	From: boxcar4willhe	Date: 10/23/2011
Subject: Re: What did I buy here?

Hi All, I may have answered my own question about the metal pieces. They are the exact shape and size to cover the wood bolsters on some of the cars though I don't know way they would be used there. When I took the newspaper out of the case the date was Dec. 21, 1960 if I remember right. That would be the last time they were packed up maybe. The trains are obviously older. There were a few small pieces of couplers ,a wood ventilation stack for the diner, two sets of steps for the diner and a red ladder. There was an instruction sheet for transformer hook up in two pieces and a booklet that looks interesting. It has a copyright date of 1939 and is titled "TWO RAIL" , SWITCHES & CIRCUITS BY MANTUA_METAL PRODUCTS co, Woodbury Heights, New Jersey. Is this a common booklet? Thanks. Lon --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "boxcar4willhe" <wlon17@...> wrote: > > > > Hi again, I forgot to ask. Can anyone tell what the metal ,brass?, pieces are used for? Lon > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "boxcar4willhe" <wlon17@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Dale and All, I had no idea that Gilbert made AC spur gear HO. This is very interesting to me. I can't wait to test this out. I welcome more comments from the group. Now some questions. Is this locomotive worth fixing up? Are the parts available some where? Would this be an expensive restoration? Thanks for any information. Lon Walker > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Dale Smith <dfsmith26@> wrote: > > > > > > Your locomotive is definitely Gilbert, probably a 112 or 200, both > > > prewar models, as identified by the spur gear drive. They were for the > > > most part AC powered, except for a few 200's which were DC. They also > > > used a DC relay controlled reverse mechanism which could probably be > > > triggered by a whistle button on a Lionel transformer. Another > > > variation to look for is the wheels, bakelite or diecast. For photos of > > > these locomotives, see www.gilbertho.org, but for details you might need > > > if you want to restore this model I recommend Gary Klein's book on > > > Gilbert HO. More info regarding this book is on the above website. > > > > > > Dale > > > > > > On 10/21/2011 1:36 PM, boxcar4willhe wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi All, I bought this on ebay because it looked different and I > > > > haven't seen anything like them before. Have not received it yet. How > > > > about some input on exactly what I bought? Go to 250906894947. Thanks > > > > for any information. Lon Walker > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17534	From: boxcar4willhe	Date: 10/23/2011
Subject: Re: What did I buy here?

OK, I found a screw there. How did I miss that? Had to use an offset screwdriver but got it out. It seems it only holds the weight to the cab floor. Nothing else came loose. Anything else I can try? Lon --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "DOM ST.JOHN" <jsangiovanni@...> wrote: > > Look inside the cab, you may see a screw inside center area. That should do it. > Dom > > > > > > ________________________________ > From: boxcar4willhe <wlon17@...> > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sun, October 23, 2011 2:03:01 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: What did I buy here? > > > > > You may be right about the pilot or the cow catcher was just broken off. The > part you mentioned is a separate piece. The rest of the boiler looks fine. Now I > have to see what is keeping the wheels from turning. I had no problem removing > the tender shell and it looks like the wiring is fine in there and the reverser > cycles fine either manually or by using a whistle button on a ZW. My problem now > is that I can't seem to get the boiler shell off. The long screw in front > releases the plastic boiler front but not much else. I tried a screw about 1/2 " > long screw at the side and under the cab side skirt with no effect. I don't see > anything else to release it unless that opening on the side is like a pin on > Lionel 0 gauge. There may be allen wrench type opening there. Not sure. Any > suggestions? Thanks. Lon > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "DOM ST.JOHN" <jsangiovanni@> wrote: > > > > Right on the 112. The windows do identify it as the 40, 41 Hudson. Pretty sure > > > the coupler on the truck is another clue. The hole on the tender is for manual > > > reversing. And right again that you should be able to turn the wheels by hand. > > > Looking at the pictures shows cracks in the pilot. A clear case of the classic > > > metal fatigue found in some of the early engines. Often the tenders are found > > with the same issue. Some interesting stuff in that group. > > Dom > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: boxcar4willhe <wlon17@> > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Sat, October 22, 2011 9:49:48 PM > > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: What did I buy here? > > > > > > > > > > Hi Dale and All. The trains came today and I took lots of pictures. Just > > judging from the cab windows, I think the engine is a 112. I tried to power it > > > up but only get clicks from the reverser in the tender. The tender top has a > > small hole that I believe is a way to manually reverse it, if it is like the 0 > > > gauge RDC units. I will have to clean it up and inspect it. I have hopes of > > running it. This is definitely a spur gear unit. Shouldn't I be able to turn > >the > > > > wheels freely with out power as with 0 gauge??? More later. Lon Walker > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Dale Smith <dfsmith26@> wrote: > > > > > > Your locomotive is definitely Gilbert, probably a 112 or 200, both > > > prewar models, as identified by the spur gear drive. They were for the > > > most part AC powered, except for a few 200's which were DC. They also > > > used a DC relay controlled reverse mechanism which could probably be > > > triggered by a whistle button on a Lionel transformer. Another > > > variation to look for is the wheels, bakelite or diecast. For photos of > > > these locomotives, see www.gilbertho.org, but for details you might need > > > if you want to restore this model I recommend Gary Klein's book on > > > Gilbert HO. More info regarding this book is on the above website. > > > > > > Dale > > > > > > On 10/21/2011 1:36 PM, boxcar4willhe wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi All, I bought this on ebay because it looked different and I > > > > haven't seen anything like them before. Have not received it yet. How > > > > about some input on exactly what I bought? Go to 250906894947. Thanks > > > > for any information. Lon Walker > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17535	From: boxcar4willhe	Date: 10/23/2011
Subject: Re: What did I buy here?

Correction. I should have said holds the weight to the frame. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "boxcar4willhe" <wlon17@...> wrote: > > > > OK, I found a screw there. How did I miss that? Had to use an offset screwdriver but got it out. It seems it only holds the weight to the cab floor. Nothing else came loose. Anything else I can try? Lon > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "DOM ST.JOHN" <jsangiovanni@> wrote: > > > > Look inside the cab, you may see a screw inside center area. That should do it. > > Dom > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: boxcar4willhe <wlon17@> > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Sun, October 23, 2011 2:03:01 PM > > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: What did I buy here? > > > > > > > > > > You may be right about the pilot or the cow catcher was just broken off. The > > part you mentioned is a separate piece. The rest of the boiler looks fine. Now I > > have to see what is keeping the wheels from turning. I had no problem removing > > the tender shell and it looks like the wiring is fine in there and the reverser > > cycles fine either manually or by using a whistle button on a ZW. My problem now > > is that I can't seem to get the boiler shell off. The long screw in front > > releases the plastic boiler front but not much else. I tried a screw about 1/2 " > > long screw at the side and under the cab side skirt with no effect. I don't see > > anything else to release it unless that opening on the side is like a pin on > > Lionel 0 gauge. There may be allen wrench type opening there. Not sure. Any > > suggestions? Thanks. Lon > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "DOM ST.JOHN" <jsangiovanni@> wrote: > > > > > > Right on the 112. The windows do identify it as the 40, 41 Hudson. Pretty sure > > > > > the coupler on the truck is another clue. The hole on the tender is for manual > > > > > reversing. And right again that you should be able to turn the wheels by hand. > > > > > Looking at the pictures shows cracks in the pilot. A clear case of the classic > > > > > metal fatigue found in some of the early engines. Often the tenders are found > > > with the same issue. Some interesting stuff in that group. > > > Dom > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > From: boxcar4willhe <wlon17@> > > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > > Sent: Sat, October 22, 2011 9:49:48 PM > > > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: What did I buy here? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Dale and All. The trains came today and I took lots of pictures. Just > > > judging from the cab windows, I think the engine is a 112. I tried to power it > > > > > up but only get clicks from the reverser in the tender. The tender top has a > > > small hole that I believe is a way to manually reverse it, if it is like the 0 > > > > > gauge RDC units. I will have to clean it up and inspect it. I have hopes of > > > running it. This is definitely a spur gear unit. Shouldn't I be able to turn > > >the > > > > > > wheels freely with out power as with 0 gauge??? More later. Lon Walker > > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Dale Smith <dfsmith26@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Your locomotive is definitely Gilbert, probably a 112 or 200, both > > > > prewar models, as identified by the spur gear drive. They were for the > > > > most part AC powered, except for a few 200's which were DC. They also > > > > used a DC relay controlled reverse mechanism which could probably be > > > > triggered by a whistle button on a Lionel transformer. Another > > > > variation to look for is the wheels, bakelite or diecast. For photos of > > > > these locomotives, see www.gilbertho.org, but for details you might need > > > > if you want to restore this model I recommend Gary Klein's book on > > > > Gilbert HO. More info regarding this book is on the above website. > > > > > > > > Dale > > > > > > > > On 10/21/2011 1:36 PM, boxcar4willhe wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hi All, I bought this on ebay because it looked different and I > > > > > haven't seen anything like them before. Have not received it yet. How > > > > > about some input on exactly what I bought? Go to 250906894947. Thanks > > > > > for any information. Lon Walker > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17536	From: DOM ST.JOHN	Date: 10/23/2011
Subject: Re: What did I buy here?

Did you get the two screws on the two sides that hold the valve gear plate? You get the screw under the leading truck so it should just be the cab screw and the two side screws. I think! Dom From: boxcar4willhe <wlon17@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, October 23, 2011 2:50:40 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: What did I buy here?   Correction. I should have said holds the weight to the frame. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "boxcar4willhe" <wlon17@...> wrote: > > > > OK, I found a screw there. How did I miss that? Had to use an offset screwdriver but got it out. It seems it only holds the weight to the cab floor. Nothing else came loose. Anything else I can try? Lon > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "DOM ST.JOHN" <jsangiovanni@> wrote: > > > > Look inside the cab, you may see a screw inside center area. That should do it. > > Dom > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: boxcar4willhe <wlon17@> > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Sun, October 23, 2011 2:03:01 PM > > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: What did I buy here? > > > > > > > > > > You may be right about the pilot or the cow catcher was just broken off. The > > part you mentioned is a separate piece. The rest of the boiler looks fine. Now I > > have to see what is keeping the wheels from turning. I had no problem removing > > the tender shell and it looks like the wiring is fine in there and the reverser > > cycles fine either manually or by using a whistle button on a ZW. My problem now > > is that I can't seem to get the boiler shell off. The long screw in front > > releases the plastic boiler front but not much else. I tried a screw about 1/2 " > > long screw at the side and under the cab side skirt with no effect. I don't see > > anything else to release it unless that opening on the side is like a pin on > > Lionel 0 gauge. There may be allen wrench type opening there. Not sure. Any > > suggestions? Thanks. Lon > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "DOM ST.JOHN" <jsangiovanni@> wrote: > > > > > > Right on the 112. The windows do identify it as the 40, 41 Hudson. Pretty sure > > > > > the coupler on the truck is another clue. The hole on the tender is for manual > > > > > reversing. And right again that you should be able to turn the wheels by hand. > > > > > Looking at the pictures shows cracks in the pilot. A clear case of the classic > > > > > metal fatigue found in some of the early engines. Often the tenders are found > > > with the same issue. Some interesting stuff in that group. > > > Dom > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > From: boxcar4willhe <wlon17@> > > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > > Sent: Sat, October 22, 2011 9:49:48 PM > > > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: What did I buy here? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Dale and All. The trains came today and I took lots of pictures. Just > > > judging from the cab windows, I think the engine is a 112. I tried to power it > > > > > up but only get clicks from the reverser in the tender. The tender top has a > > > small hole that I believe is a way to manually reverse it, if it is like the 0 > > > > > gauge RDC units. I will have to clean it up and inspect it. I have hopes of > > > running it. This is definitely a spur gear unit. Shouldn't I be able to turn > > >the > > > > > > wheels freely with out power as with 0 gauge??? More later. Lon Walker > > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Dale Smith <dfsmith26@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Your locomotive is definitely Gilbert, probably a 112 or 200, both > > > > prewar models, as identified by the spur gear drive. They were for the > > > > most part AC powered, except for a few 200's which were DC. They also > > > > used a DC relay controlled reverse mechanism which could probably be > > > > triggered by a whistle button on a Lionel transformer. Another > > > > variation to look for is the wheels, bakelite or diecast. For photos of > > > > these locomotives, see www.gilbertho.org, but for details you might need > > > > if you want to restore this model I recommend Gary Klein's book on > > > > Gilbert HO. More info regarding this book is on the above website. > > > > > > > > Dale > > > > > > > > On 10/21/2011 1:36 PM, boxcar4willhe wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hi All, I bought this on ebay because it looked different and I > > > > > haven't seen anything like them before. Have not received it yet. How > > > > > about some input on exactly what I bought? Go to 250906894947. Thanks > > > > > for any information. Lon Walker > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17537	From: boxcar4willhe	Date: 10/23/2011
Subject: Re: What did I buy here?

OK, The side screws are out and the front is loose, some but the back end is still tight. Do the H0 have the "ears" on the boiler inside top like the S gauge? I put some pressure on it bu t didn't want to over do it. As far as the wheels turning, I can turn the armature and the wheels move but not if you just try to turn the wheels. Lon --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "DOM ST.JOHN" <jsangiovanni@...> wrote: > > Did you get the two screws on the two sides that hold the valve gear plate? You > get the screw under the leading truck so it should just be the cab screw and the > two side screws. I think! > Dom > > > > > > ________________________________ > From: boxcar4willhe <wlon17@...> > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sun, October 23, 2011 2:50:40 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: What did I buy here? > > > > > Correction. I should have said holds the weight to the frame. > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "boxcar4willhe" <wlon17@> wrote: > > > > > > > > OK, I found a screw there. How did I miss that? Had to use an offset > >screwdriver but got it out. It seems it only holds the weight to the cab floor. > >Nothing else came loose. Anything else I can try? Lon > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "DOM ST.JOHN" <jsangiovanni@> wrote: > > > > > > Look inside the cab, you may see a screw inside center area. That should do > >it. > > > Dom > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > From: boxcar4willhe <wlon17@> > > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > > Sent: Sun, October 23, 2011 2:03:01 PM > > > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: What did I buy here? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You may be right about the pilot or the cow catcher was just broken off. The > > > > part you mentioned is a separate piece. The rest of the boiler looks fine. > >Now I > > > > > have to see what is keeping the wheels from turning. I had no problem > >removing > > > > > the tender shell and it looks like the wiring is fine in there and the > >reverser > > > > > cycles fine either manually or by using a whistle button on a ZW. My problem > >now > > > > > is that I can't seem to get the boiler shell off. The long screw in front > > > releases the plastic boiler front but not much else. I tried a screw about > >1/2 " > > > > > long screw at the side and under the cab side skirt with no effect. I don't > >see > > > > > anything else to release it unless that opening on the side is like a pin on > > > > Lionel 0 gauge. There may be allen wrench type opening there. Not sure. Any > > > suggestions? Thanks. Lon > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "DOM ST.JOHN" <jsangiovanni@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Right on the 112. The windows do identify it as the 40, 41 Hudson. Pretty > >sure > > > > > > > > > the coupler on the truck is another clue. The hole on the tender is for > >manual > > > > > > > > > reversing. And right again that you should be able to turn the wheels by > >hand. > > > > > > > > > Looking at the pictures shows cracks in the pilot. A clear case of the > >classic > > > > > > > > > metal fatigue found in some of the early engines. Often the tenders are > >found > > > > > > with the same issue. Some interesting stuff in that group. > > > > Dom > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > From: boxcar4willhe <wlon17@> > > > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > > > Sent: Sat, October 22, 2011 9:49:48 PM > > > > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: What did I buy here? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Dale and All. The trains came today and I took lots of pictures. Just > > > > > judging from the cab windows, I think the engine is a 112. I tried to power > >it > > > > > > > > > up but only get clicks from the reverser in the tender. The tender top has > >a > > > > > > small hole that I believe is a way to manually reverse it, if it is like > >the 0 > > > > > > > > > gauge RDC units. I will have to clean it up and inspect it. I have hopes of > > > > > > running it. This is definitely a spur gear unit. Shouldn't I be able to > >turn > > > > > >the > > > > > > > > wheels freely with out power as with 0 gauge??? More later. Lon Walker > > > > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Dale Smith <dfsmith26@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Your locomotive is definitely Gilbert, probably a 112 or 200, both > > > > > prewar models, as identified by the spur gear drive. They were for the > > > > > > most part AC powered, except for a few 200's which were DC. They also > > > > > used a DC relay controlled reverse mechanism which could probably be > > > > > triggered by a whistle button on a Lionel transformer. Another > > > > > variation to look for is the wheels, bakelite or diecast. For photos of > > > > > > these locomotives, see www.gilbertho.org, but for details you might need > > > > > > if you want to restore this model I recommend Gary Klein's book on > > > > > Gilbert HO. More info regarding this book is on the above website. > > > > > > > > > > Dale > > > > > > > > > > On 10/21/2011 1:36 PM, boxcar4willhe wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi All, I bought this on ebay because it looked different and I > > > > > > haven't seen anything like them before. Have not received it yet. How > > > > > > about some input on exactly what I bought? Go to 250906894947. Thanks > > > > > > for any information. Lon Walker > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17538	From: DOM ST.JOHN	Date: 10/23/2011
Subject: Re: What did I buy here?

Lon, is the screw in the cab all the way out? If not, it might be holding the shell on. Dom From: boxcar4willhe <wlon17@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, October 23, 2011 3:16:09 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: What did I buy here?   OK, The side screws are out and the front is loose, some but the back end is still tight. Do the H0 have the "ears" on the boiler inside top like the S gauge? I put some pressure on it bu t didn't want to over do it. As far as the wheels turning, I can turn the armature and the wheels move but not if you just try to turn the wheels. Lon --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "DOM ST.JOHN" <jsangiovanni@...> wrote: > > Did you get the two screws on the two sides that hold the valve gear plate? You > get the screw under the leading truck so it should just be the cab screw and the > two side screws. I think! > Dom > > > > > > ________________________________ > From: boxcar4willhe <wlon17@...> > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sun, October 23, 2011 2:50:40 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: What did I buy here? > > > > > Correction. I should have said holds the weight to the frame. > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "boxcar4willhe" <wlon17@> wrote: > > > > > > > > OK, I found a screw there. How did I miss that? Had to use an offset > >screwdriver but got it out. It seems it only holds the weight to the cab floor. > >Nothing else came loose. Anything else I can try? Lon > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "DOM ST.JOHN" <jsangiovanni@> wrote: > > > > > > Look inside the cab, you may see a screw inside center area. That should do > >it. > > > Dom > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > From: boxcar4willhe <wlon17@> > > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > > Sent: Sun, October 23, 2011 2:03:01 PM > > > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: What did I buy here? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You may be right about the pilot or the cow catcher was just broken off. The > > > > part you mentioned is a separate piece. The rest of the boiler looks fine. > >Now I > > > > > have to see what is keeping the wheels from turning. I had no problem > >removing > > > > > the tender shell and it looks like the wiring is fine in there and the > >reverser > > > > > cycles fine either manually or by using a whistle button on a ZW. My problem > >now > > > > > is that I can't seem to get the boiler shell off. The long screw in front > > > releases the plastic boiler front but not much else. I tried a screw about > >1/2 " > > > > > long screw at the side and under the cab side skirt with no effect. I don't > >see > > > > > anything else to release it unless that opening on the side is like a pin on > > > > Lionel 0 gauge. There may be allen wrench type opening there. Not sure. Any > > > suggestions? Thanks. Lon > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "DOM ST.JOHN" <jsangiovanni@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Right on the 112. The windows do identify it as the 40, 41 Hudson. Pretty > >sure > > > > > > > > > the coupler on the truck is another clue. The hole on the tender is for > >manual > > > > > > > > > reversing. And right again that you should be able to turn the wheels by > >hand. > > > > > > > > > Looking at the pictures shows cracks in the pilot. A clear case of the > >classic > > > > > > > > > metal fatigue found in some of the early engines. Often the tenders are > >found > > > > > > with the same issue. Some interesting stuff in that group. > > > > Dom > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > From: boxcar4willhe <wlon17@> > > > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > > > Sent: Sat, October 22, 2011 9:49:48 PM > > > > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: What did I buy here? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Dale and All. The trains came today and I took lots of pictures. Just > > > > > judging from the cab windows, I think the engine is a 112. I tried to power > >it > > > > > > > > > up but only get clicks from the reverser in the tender. The tender top has > >a > > > > > > small hole that I believe is a way to manually reverse it, if it is like > >the 0 > > > > > > > > > gauge RDC units. I will have to clean it up and inspect it. I have hopes of > > > > > > running it. This is definitely a spur gear unit. Shouldn't I be able to > >turn > > > > > >the > > > > > > > > wheels freely with out power as with 0 gauge??? More later. Lon Walker > > > > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Dale Smith <dfsmith26@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Your locomotive is definitely Gilbert, probably a 112 or 200, both > > > > > prewar models, as identified by the spur gear drive. They were for the > > > > > > most part AC powered, except for a few 200's which were DC. They also > > > > > used a DC relay controlled reverse mechanism which could probably be > > > > > triggered by a whistle button on a Lionel transformer. Another > > > > > variation to look for is the wheels, bakelite or diecast. For photos of > > > > > > these locomotives, see www.gilbertho.org, but for details you might need > > > > > > if you want to restore this model I recommend Gary Klein's book on > > > > > Gilbert HO. More info regarding this book is on the above website. > > > > > > > > > > Dale > > > > > > > > > > On 10/21/2011 1:36 PM, boxcar4willhe wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi All, I bought this on ebay because it looked different and I > > > > > > haven't seen anything like them before. Have not received it yet. How > > > > > > about some input on exactly what I bought? Go to 250906894947. Thanks > > > > > > for any information. Lon Walker > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17539	From: boxcar4willhe	Date: 10/23/2011
Subject: Re: What did I buy here?

Yes, the screw is all the way out. There is one fairly long screw that goes sideways under the cab that is mostly out but the cab skirting prevents it from coming all the way out. It goes through part of the frame. It may be the last hold up or it may hold the motor together. I don't want to break the side of the cab. Lon --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "DOM ST.JOHN" <jsangiovanni@...> wrote: > > Lon, is the screw in the cab all the way out? If not, it might be holding the > shell on. > Dom > > > > > > ________________________________ > From: boxcar4willhe <wlon17@...> > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sun, October 23, 2011 3:16:09 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: What did I buy here? > > > > > OK, The side screws are out and the front is loose, some but the back end is > still tight. Do the H0 have the "ears" on the boiler inside top like the S > gauge? I put some pressure on it bu > t didn't want to over do it. > As far as the wheels turning, I can turn the armature and the wheels move but > not if you just try to turn the wheels. Lon > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "DOM ST.JOHN" <jsangiovanni@> wrote: > > > > Did you get the two screws on the two sides that hold the valve gear plate? You > > > > get the screw under the leading truck so it should just be the cab screw and > >the > > > > two side screws. I think! > > Dom > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: boxcar4willhe <wlon17@> > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Sun, October 23, 2011 2:50:40 PM > > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: What did I buy here? > > > > > > > > > > Correction. I should have said holds the weight to the frame. > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "boxcar4willhe" <wlon17@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > OK, I found a screw there. How did I miss that? Had to use an offset > > >screwdriver but got it out. It seems it only holds the weight to the cab > >floor. > > > > >Nothing else came loose. Anything else I can try? Lon > > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "DOM ST.JOHN" <jsangiovanni@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Look inside the cab, you may see a screw inside center area. That should do > > > > >it. > > > > Dom > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > From: boxcar4willhe <wlon17@> > > > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > > > Sent: Sun, October 23, 2011 2:03:01 PM > > > > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: What did I buy here? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You may be right about the pilot or the cow catcher was just broken off. > >The > > > > > > > > part you mentioned is a separate piece. The rest of the boiler looks fine. > > > >Now I > > > > > > > have to see what is keeping the wheels from turning. I had no problem > > >removing > > > > > > > the tender shell and it looks like the wiring is fine in there and the > > >reverser > > > > > > > cycles fine either manually or by using a whistle button on a ZW. My > >problem > > > > >now > > > > > > > is that I can't seem to get the boiler shell off. The long screw in front > > > > releases the plastic boiler front but not much else. I tried a screw about > > > >1/2 " > > > > > > > long screw at the side and under the cab side skirt with no effect. I don't > > > > >see > > > > > > > anything else to release it unless that opening on the side is like a pin > >on > > > > > > > > Lionel 0 gauge. There may be allen wrench type opening there. Not sure. Any > > > > > > suggestions? Thanks. Lon > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "DOM ST.JOHN" <jsangiovanni@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Right on the 112. The windows do identify it as the 40, 41 Hudson. Pretty > > > > >sure > > > > > > > > > > > > the coupler on the truck is another clue. The hole on the tender is for > > >manual > > > > > > > > > > > > reversing. And right again that you should be able to turn the wheels by > > > >hand. > > > > > > > > > > > > Looking at the pictures shows cracks in the pilot. A clear case of the > > >classic > > > > > > > > > > > > metal fatigue found in some of the early engines. Often the tenders are > > >found > > > > > > > > with the same issue. Some interesting stuff in that group. > > > > > Dom > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > From: boxcar4willhe <wlon17@> > > > > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > > > > Sent: Sat, October 22, 2011 9:49:48 PM > > > > > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: What did I buy here? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Dale and All. The trains came today and I took lots of pictures. > >Just > > > > > > > > > judging from the cab windows, I think the engine is a 112. I tried to > >power > > > > >it > > > > > > > > > > > > up but only get clicks from the reverser in the tender. The tender top > >has > > > > >a > > > > > > > > small hole that I believe is a way to manually reverse it, if it is like > > > >the 0 > > > > > > > > > > > > gauge RDC units. I will have to clean it up and inspect it. I have hopes > >of > > > > > > > > > > running it. This is definitely a spur gear unit. Shouldn't I be able to > > >turn > > > > > > > >the > > > > > > > > > > wheels freely with out power as with 0 gauge??? More later. Lon Walker > > > > > > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Dale Smith <dfsmith26@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Your locomotive is definitely Gilbert, probably a 112 or 200, both > > > > > > prewar models, as identified by the spur gear drive. They were for > >the > > > > > > > > > > most part AC powered, except for a few 200's which were DC. They also > > > > > > > used a DC relay controlled reverse mechanism which could probably be > > > > > > triggered by a whistle button on a Lionel transformer. Another > > > > > > variation to look for is the wheels, bakelite or diecast. For photos > >of > > > > > > > > > > these locomotives, see www.gilbertho.org, but for details you might > >need > > > > > > > > > > if you want to restore this model I recommend Gary Klein's book on > > > > > > Gilbert HO. More info regarding this book is on the above website. > > > > > > > > > > > > Dale > > > > > > > > > > > > On 10/21/2011 1:36 PM, boxcar4willhe wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi All, I bought this on ebay because it looked different and I > > > > > > > haven't seen anything like them before. Have not received it yet. How > > > > > > > > > about some input on exactly what I bought? Go to 250906894947. Thanks > > > > > > > > > for any information. Lon Walker > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17540	From: DOM ST.JOHN	Date: 10/23/2011
Subject: Re: What did I buy here?

Lon, yes that screw is through the frame and motor. It's not that screw. I think I know what it is now. The wires from the motor go through a hole in the weight right? I just took one of mine apart and my wires where separated from the tender. So they pulled out through that hole and allowed me to take the shell off. Your wires are probably still attached to the tender and won't let you pull the shell until they are separated from the tender.I think that is it. Dom From: boxcar4willhe <wlon17@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, October 23, 2011 3:59:59 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: What did I buy here?   Yes, the screw is all the way out. There is one fairly long screw that goes sideways under the cab that is mostly out but the cab skirting prevents it from coming all the way out. It goes through part of the frame. It may be the last hold up or it may hold the motor together. I don't want to break the side of the cab. Lon --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "DOM ST.JOHN" <jsangiovanni@...> wrote: > > Lon, is the screw in the cab all the way out? If not, it might be holding the > shell on. > Dom > > > > > > ________________________________ > From: boxcar4willhe <wlon17@...> > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sun, October 23, 2011 3:16:09 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: What did I buy here? > > > > > OK, The side screws are out and the front is loose, some but the back end is > still tight. Do the H0 have the "ears" on the boiler inside top like the S > gauge? I put some pressure on it bu > t didn't want to over do it. > As far as the wheels turning, I can turn the armature and the wheels move but > not if you just try to turn the wheels. Lon > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "DOM ST.JOHN" <jsangiovanni@> wrote: > > > > Did you get the two screws on the two sides that hold the valve gear plate? You > > > > get the screw under the leading truck so it should just be the cab screw and > >the > > > > two side screws. I think! > > Dom > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: boxcar4willhe <wlon17@> > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Sun, October 23, 2011 2:50:40 PM > > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: What did I buy here? > > > > > > > > > > Correction. I should have said holds the weight to the frame. > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "boxcar4willhe" <wlon17@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > OK, I found a screw there. How did I miss that? Had to use an offset > > >screwdriver but got it out. It seems it only holds the weight to the cab > >floor. > > > > >Nothing else came loose. Anything else I can try? Lon > > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "DOM ST.JOHN" <jsangiovanni@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Look inside the cab, you may see a screw inside center area. That should do > > > > >it. > > > > Dom > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > From: boxcar4willhe <wlon17@> > > > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > > > Sent: Sun, October 23, 2011 2:03:01 PM > > > > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: What did I buy here? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You may be right about the pilot or the cow catcher was just broken off. > >The > > > > > > > > part you mentioned is a separate piece. The rest of the boiler looks fine. > > > >Now I > > > > > > > have to see what is keeping the wheels from turning. I had no problem > > >removing > > > > > > > the tender shell and it looks like the wiring is fine in there and the > > >reverser > > > > > > > cycles fine either manually or by using a whistle button on a ZW. My > >problem > > > > >now > > > > > > > is that I can't seem to get the boiler shell off. The long screw in front > > > > releases the plastic boiler front but not much else. I tried a screw about > > > >1/2 " > > > > > > > long screw at the side and under the cab side skirt with no effect. I don't > > > > >see > > > > > > > anything else to release it unless that opening on the side is like a pin > >on > > > > > > > > Lionel 0 gauge. There may be allen wrench type opening there. Not sure. Any > > > > > > suggestions? Thanks. Lon > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "DOM ST.JOHN" <jsangiovanni@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Right on the 112. The windows do identify it as the 40, 41 Hudson. Pretty > > > > >sure > > > > > > > > > > > > the coupler on the truck is another clue. The hole on the tender is for > > >manual > > > > > > > > > > > > reversing. And right again that you should be able to turn the wheels by > > > >hand. > > > > > > > > > > > > Looking at the pictures shows cracks in the pilot. A clear case of the > > >classic > > > > > > > > > > > > metal fatigue found in some of the early engines. Often the tenders are > > >found > > > > > > > > with the same issue. Some interesting stuff in that group. > > > > > Dom > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > From: boxcar4willhe <wlon17@> > > > > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > > > > Sent: Sat, October 22, 2011 9:49:48 PM > > > > > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: What did I buy here? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Dale and All. The trains came today and I took lots of pictures. > >Just > > > > > > > > > judging from the cab windows, I think the engine is a 112. I tried to > >power > > > > >it > > > > > > > > > > > > up but only get clicks from the reverser in the tender. The tender top > >has > > > > >a > > > > > > > > small hole that I believe is a way to manually reverse it, if it is like > > > >the 0 > > > > > > > > > > > > gauge RDC units. I will have to clean it up and inspect it. I have hopes > >of > > > > > > > > > > running it. This is definitely a spur gear unit. Shouldn't I be able to > > >turn > > > > > > > >the > > > > > > > > > > wheels freely with out power as with 0 gauge??? More later. Lon Walker > > > > > > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Dale Smith <dfsmith26@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Your locomotive is definitely Gilbert, probably a 112 or 200, both > > > > > > prewar models, as identified by the spur gear drive. They were for > >the > > > > > > > > > > most part AC powered, except for a few 200's which were DC. They also > > > > > > > used a DC relay controlled reverse mechanism which could probably be > > > > > > triggered by a whistle button on a Lionel transformer. Another > > > > > > variation to look for is the wheels, bakelite or diecast. For photos > >of > > > > > > > > > > these locomotives, see www.gilbertho.org, but for details you might > >need > > > > > > > > > > if you want to restore this model I recommend Gary Klein's book on > > > > > > Gilbert HO. More info regarding this book is on the above website. > > > > > > > > > > > > Dale > > > > > > > > > > > > On 10/21/2011 1:36 PM, boxcar4willhe wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi All, I bought this on ebay because it looked different and I > > > > > > > haven't seen anything like them before. Have not received it yet. How > > > > > > > > > about some input on exactly what I bought? Go to 250906894947. Thanks > > > > > > > > > for any information. Lon Walker > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17541	From: gary	Date: 10/23/2011
Subject: Semaphores

Hey Guys, I need some info. I just got some 3 position upper quad semaphores and understand they can be controlled by a "Tortise" type switch machine. I have never used switch machines other than Atlas snap switches years ago. What type of electrical switch should be used to control the switch machine to show all 3 aspects manually? I have never seen a Tortise work so I need help on how to rig it up and wire it. The semaphore lamp is easy enough as it is only one lamp and is on all the time. I do not want to get so involved as to use train detection etc. to control the Tortise, just a manual switch. Thanks for any help or explanations. Gary pardue

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17542	From: boxcar4willhe	Date: 10/23/2011
Subject: Re: What did I buy here?

OK, I followed you up to this point but I do not want to remove or detach any wires. I am not that good with a soldering gun in 0 let alone H0. You did however lead me to the solution. When I looked at the wire and weight situation I spotted a small screw at the top of the weight on the area where the instruments would be in a loco. That screw is above the opening the wires go through. That held the boiler shell to the weight which kept the shell from coming off. Now I can clean this thing and see if I can get it running. The brushes are mounted very differently than 0 gauge and of coarse they could be bad. I see some very old electrical tape in the tender and the engine which makes the wiring suspect also. Thank you very much Dom for your help. I guess two heads are better than one. Lon Walker --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "DOM ST.JOHN" <jsangiovanni@...> wrote: > > Lon, yes that screw is through the frame and motor. It's not that screw. I think > I know what it is now. The wires from the motor go through a hole in the weight > right? I just took one of mine apart and my wires where separated from the > tender. So they pulled out through that hole and allowed me to take the shell > off. Your wires are probably still attached to the tender and won't let you pull > the shell until they are separated from the tender.I think that is it. > Dom > > > > > > ________________________________ > From: boxcar4willhe <wlon17@...> > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sun, October 23, 2011 3:59:59 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: What did I buy here? > > > > > Yes, the screw is all the way out. There is one fairly long screw that goes > sideways under the cab that is mostly out but the cab skirting prevents it from > coming all the way out. It goes through part of the frame. It may be the last > hold up or it may hold the motor together. I don't want to break the side of the > cab. Lon > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "DOM ST.JOHN" <jsangiovanni@> wrote: > > > > Lon, is the screw in the cab all the way out? If not, it might be holding the > > shell on. > > Dom > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: boxcar4willhe <wlon17@> > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Sun, October 23, 2011 3:16:09 PM > > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: What did I buy here? > > > > > > > > > > OK, The side screws are out and the front is loose, some but the back end is > > still tight. Do the H0 have the "ears" on the boiler inside top like the S > > gauge? I put some pressure on it bu > > t didn't want to over do it. > > As far as the wheels turning, I can turn the armature and the wheels move but > > not if you just try to turn the wheels. Lon > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "DOM ST.JOHN" <jsangiovanni@> wrote: > > > > > > Did you get the two screws on the two sides that hold the valve gear plate? > >You > > > > > > > > get the screw under the leading truck so it should just be the cab screw and > > > >the > > > > > > two side screws. I think! > > > Dom > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > From: boxcar4willhe <wlon17@> > > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > > Sent: Sun, October 23, 2011 2:50:40 PM > > > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: What did I buy here? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Correction. I should have said holds the weight to the frame. > > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "boxcar4willhe" <wlon17@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > OK, I found a screw there. How did I miss that? Had to use an offset > > > >screwdriver but got it out. It seems it only holds the weight to the cab > > >floor. > > > > > > >Nothing else came loose. Anything else I can try? Lon > > > > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "DOM ST.JOHN" <jsangiovanni@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Look inside the cab, you may see a screw inside center area. That should > >do > > > > > > > > >it. > > > > > Dom > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > From: boxcar4willhe <wlon17@> > > > > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > > > > Sent: Sun, October 23, 2011 2:03:01 PM > > > > > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: What did I buy here? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You may be right about the pilot or the cow catcher was just broken off. > > > >The > > > > > > > > > > > part you mentioned is a separate piece. The rest of the boiler looks > >fine. > > > > > > > >Now I > > > > > > > > > have to see what is keeping the wheels from turning. I had no problem > > > >removing > > > > > > > > > the tender shell and it looks like the wiring is fine in there and the > > > >reverser > > > > > > > > > cycles fine either manually or by using a whistle button on a ZW. My > > >problem > > > > > > >now > > > > > > > > > is that I can't seem to get the boiler shell off. The long screw in front > > > > > > > releases the plastic boiler front but not much else. I tried a screw > >about > > > > > > > >1/2 " > > > > > > > > > long screw at the side and under the cab side skirt with no effect. I > >don't > > > > > > > > >see > > > > > > > > > anything else to release it unless that opening on the side is like a pin > > > > >on > > > > > > > > > > > Lionel 0 gauge. There may be allen wrench type opening there. Not sure. > >Any > > > > > > > > > > suggestions? Thanks. Lon > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "DOM ST.JOHN" <jsangiovanni@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Right on the 112. The windows do identify it as the 40, 41 Hudson. > >Pretty > > > > > > > > >sure > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the coupler on the truck is another clue. The hole on the tender is for > > > > > >manual > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > reversing. And right again that you should be able to turn the wheels > >by > > > > > > > >hand. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Looking at the pictures shows cracks in the pilot. A clear case of the > > > > >classic > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > metal fatigue found in some of the early engines. Often the tenders are > > > > > >found > > > > > > > > > > with the same issue. Some interesting stuff in that group. > > > > > > Dom > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > > From: boxcar4willhe <wlon17@> > > > > > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > Sent: Sat, October 22, 2011 9:49:48 PM > > > > > > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: What did I buy here? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Dale and All. The trains came today and I took lots of pictures. > > >Just > > > > > > > > > > > > judging from the cab windows, I think the engine is a 112. I tried to > > >power > > > > > > >it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > up but only get clicks from the reverser in the tender. The tender top > > > >has > > > > > > >a > > > > > > > > > > small hole that I believe is a way to manually reverse it, if it is > >like > > > > > > > >the 0 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > gauge RDC units. I will have to clean it up and inspect it. I have > >hopes > > > > >of > > > > > > > > > > > > > running it. This is definitely a spur gear unit. Shouldn't I be able to > > > > > >turn > > > > > > > > > >the > > > > > > > > > > > > wheels freely with out power as with 0 gauge??? More later. Lon > >Walker > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Dale Smith <dfsmith26@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your locomotive is definitely Gilbert, probably a 112 or 200, both > > > > > > > prewar models, as identified by the spur gear drive. They were for > > > >the > > > > > > > > > > > > > most part AC powered, except for a few 200's which were DC. They > >also > > > > > > > > > > > used a DC relay controlled reverse mechanism which could probably be > > > > > > > > triggered by a whistle button on a Lionel transformer. Another > > > > > > > variation to look for is the wheels, bakelite or diecast. For photos > > > > >of > > > > > > > > > > > > > these locomotives, see www.gilbertho.org, but for details you might > > >need > > > > > > > > > > > > > if you want to restore this model I recommend Gary Klein's book on > > > > > > > Gilbert HO. More info regarding this book is on the above website. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dale > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 10/21/2011 1:36 PM, boxcar4willhe wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi All, I bought this on ebay because it looked different and I > > > > > > > > haven't seen anything like them before. Have not received it yet. > >How > > > > > > > > > > > > > about some input on exactly what I bought? Go to 250906894947. > >Thanks > > > > > > > > > > > > > for any information. Lon Walker > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17543	From: Rick Jones	Date: 10/23/2011
Subject: Re: Semaphores

On 10/23/2011 3:39 PM, gary wrote: > Hey Guys, I need some info. I just got some 3 position upper quad > semaphores and understand they can be controlled by a "Tortise" type > switch machine. I have never used switch machines other than Atlas > snap switches years ago. What type of electrical switch should be > used to control the switch machine to show all 3 aspects manually? I > have never seen a Tortise work so I need help on how to rig it up and > wire it. The semaphore lamp is easy enough as it is only one lamp and > is on all the time. I do not want to get so involved as to use train > detection etc. to control the Tortise, just a manual switch. Thanks > for any help or explanations. Tomar has a 3 position semaphore controller based on the Tortoise. Their part number for the kit is 870, but at over $50 it's pretty pricey for anybody planning to have multiple semaphores on their layout. You'll find it about 1/3 of the way down the page here: https://tomarindustries.com/signals.htm The alternative is using a low cost R/C servo, available as cheap as $2 each, along with a microcontroller board such as on of the Arduinos or Maples. With some relatively simple programming these microcontrollers can get the cost per semaphore being controlled down to less than $10. A Maple Mini board, for example, costs $36 and has 12 PWM outputs, so that's $3 per servo being controlled if you use all 12 outputs. Coupled with a $2 servo that's a cost of only $5 each, plus a bit more for mounting hardware etc. They can also control servos driving crossing gates or turnouts at a similar savings over Tortoise or other switch motors. -- Rick Jones "People talking in movie shows, "People smoking in bed, "People voting Republican, "Give them a boot to the head!" -Frantics, "Boot To The Head"

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17544	From: gary pardue	Date: 10/23/2011
Subject: Re: Semaphores

Rick, Thanks for the info. I will check it out. Gary --- On Sun, 10/23/11, Rick Jones <r.t.jones@...> wrote: From: Rick Jones <r.t.jones@...> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Semaphores To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, October 23, 2011, 5:41 PM   On 10/23/2011 3:39 PM, gary wrote: > Hey Guys, I need some info. I just got some 3 position upper quad > semaphores and understand they can be controlled by a "Tortise" type > switch machine. I have never used switch machines other than Atlas > snap switches years ago. What type of electrical switch should be > used to control the switch machine to show all 3 aspects manually? I > have never seen a Tortise work so I need help on how to rig it up and > wire it. The semaphore lamp is easy enough as it is only one lamp and > is on all the time. I do not want to get so involved as to use train > detection etc. to control the Tortise, just a manual switch. Thanks > for any help or explanations. Tomar has a 3 position semaphore controller based on the Tortoise. Their part number for the kit is 870, but at over $50 it's pretty pricey for anybody planning to have multiple semaphores on their layout. You'll find it about 1/3 of the way down the page here: https://tomarindustries.com/signals.htm The alternative is using a low cost R/C servo, available as cheap as $2 each, along with a microcontroller board such as on of the Arduinos or Maples. With some relatively simple programming these microcontrollers can get the cost per semaphore being controlled down to less than $10. A Maple Mini board, for example, costs $36 and has 12 PWM outputs, so that's $3 per servo being controlled if you use all 12 outputs. Coupled with a $2 servo that's a cost of only $5 each, plus a bit more for mounting hardware etc. They can also control servos driving crossing gates or turnouts at a similar savings over Tortoise or other switch motors. -- Rick Jones "People talking in movie shows, "People smoking in bed, "People voting Republican, "Give them a boot to the head!" -Frantics, "Boot To The Head"

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17545	From: Model RailRoad Warehouse	Date: 10/23/2011
Subject: Re: What did I buy here?

RE The Tank Car   Red Ball in the  vintage of discussion  used an early plastic material for tank car domes. Only the unique and distinctive Nitric Acid (Monsanto) tank car had metal (2 piece) dome. Red Ball had die cast metal frame suited for early tank car kits with footboards. Red Ball had an etched  brass wrapper tank with metal dome in the 1980s era in VERY limited run. RB made only these and the unique Borden Milk (both wood and plastic tank) and Toledo & Western 2 tank milk cars after 1975- nether had domes.   Selley did have several cast metal domes that may show up on/in Red Ball or Strombecker (wood dome) tank cars/kits with paper wraps as a substitute part. Red Ball paper wraps were a heavy coated paper while Strombecker was a "regular weight" paper.  I do not believe Howell Day printed any tank wraps other than the Borden and Nitric Acid (and its "ItStinx" version ) in the 1955-75 period but he had residual M Dale Newton inventory.  Binkley could be another story.   Merle Rice Model RR Warehouse-- Red Ball  mfgr 1976-2009

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17546	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 10/25/2011
Subject: : Sampson Rail car

Attachments : IMG_7348_2.JPG IMG_7344_2.JPG IMG_7343_2.JPG Got a little more done on the Sampson rail car called the Silver Bullet. Painted body silver and got the windows installed with window material over the opening. Previous owner made some things a little harder. One was He / She trimmed the edges of the windows pieces. Left no lip to allow you to glue window frames to the inside of the body. Had to try to make an exact fit for the opening in the body. What a pain that was. Tried to fit the best I could but would have looked much better If I would have had the doors / windows original to create that sunken look with frame around. Couple of other little things had to be worked on. Still have a headlight to put in, couplers and grab handrails for the doors. In the fore ground you can see the coils springs I'm going to use for the drive instead old rubber band. Cut part off to size and join ends together, screwing one end into the other. Easy yo work with. You can take them apart anytime. Fish one end through the engine where it needs to go and join ends together without taking anything apart. Wish i had the engine from the beginning Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 17547	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 10/25/2011
Subject: RIVAROSSI MOBIL GAS PIGGYBACK TANK TRAILER FLAT CAR

Hi Guys, I have a car listed on eBay and I was wondering if it was produced by Rivarossi for Lionel. It is ending in a few hours, but I was just curious. RARE VINTAGE HO ITALY RIVAROSSI MOBIL GAS PIGGYBACK TAN...   Thanks in advance guys! Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17548	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 10/25/2011
Subject: Re: : Sampson Rail car [3 Attachments]

Jim,   It is looking better each time, nice work.  Anxious to hear how it runs after the springs are installed.  Wonder what it can pull also.   Take care,   Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Jim Heckard Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2011 2:56 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] : Sampson Rail car [3 Attachments]     Got a little more done on the Sampson rail car called the Silver Bullet. Painted body silver and got the windows installed with window material over the opening. Previous owner made some things a little harder. One was He / She trimmed the edges of the windows pieces. Left no lip to allow you to glue window frames to the inside of the body. Had to try to make an exact fit for the opening in the body. What a pain that was. Tried to fit the best I could but would have looked much better If I would have had the doors / windows original to create that sunken look with frame around. Couple of other little things had to be worked on. Still have a headlight to put in, couplers and grab handrails for the doors. In the fore ground you can see the coils springs I'm going to use for the drive instead old rubber band. Cut part off to size and join ends together, screwing one end into the other. Easy yo work with. You can take them apart anytime. Fish one end through the engine where it needs to go and join ends together without taking anything apart. Wish i had the engine from the beginning Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17549	From: Riverboy	Date: 10/25/2011
Subject: Re: RIVAROSSI MOBIL GAS PIGGYBACK TANK TRAILER FLAT CAR

Hi Group,   Am I right in thinking the tank trailer is actually an Ulrich trailer marketed under the Rivarossi name? If not, it sure looks similar.   Tod (Ohio)   --- On Tue, 10/25/11, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: From: Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> Subject: [vintageHO] RIVAROSSI MOBIL GAS PIGGYBACK TANK TRAILER FLAT CAR To: "vintageHO@yahoogroups.com" <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Date: Tuesday, October 25, 2011, 5:52 PM   Hi Guys, I have a car listed on eBay and I was wondering if it was produced by Rivarossi for Lionel. It is ending in a few hours, but I was just curious. RARE VINTAGE HO ITALY RIVAROSSI MOBIL GAS PIGGYBACK TAN...   Thanks in advance guys! Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17550	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 10/25/2011
Subject: Re: RIVAROSSI MOBIL GAS PIGGYBACK TANK TRAILER FLAT CAR

Hi Tod, I thought it was at first too, but it is all plastic. Thanks,   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: Riverboy <river_dweller_ohio@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2011 7:13 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] RIVAROSSI MOBIL GAS PIGGYBACK TANK TRAILER FLAT CAR   Hi Group,   Am I right in thinking the tank trailer is actually an Ulrich trailer marketed under the Rivarossi name? If not, it sure looks similar.   Tod (Ohio)   --- On Tue, 10/25/11, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: From: Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> Subject: [vintageHO] RIVAROSSI MOBIL GAS PIGGYBACK TANK TRAILER FLAT CAR To: "vintageHO@yahoogroups.com" <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Date: Tuesday, October 25, 2011, 5:52 PM   Hi Guys, I have a car listed on eBay and I was wondering if it was produced by Rivarossi for Lionel. It is ending in a few hours, but I was just curious. RARE VINTAGE HO ITALY RIVAROSSI MOBIL GAS PIGGYBACK TAN...   Thanks in advance guys! Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17551	From: Riverboy	Date: 10/25/2011
Subject: Re: RIVAROSSI MOBIL GAS PIGGYBACK TANK TRAILER FLAT CAR

Hi Sean,   It's almost as though they used the same dies. I have a plastic tractor and van trailer that you can tell is an identical model to the old Matchbox M9 Interstate Double Frieghter, with only minor differences, but you can tell it is the same model. I'm wondering if it is the same type deal. I don't have an Ulrich trailer to compare details.   Tod (Ohio)    --- On Tue, 10/25/11, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: From: Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] RIVAROSSI MOBIL GAS PIGGYBACK TANK TRAILER FLAT CAR To: "vintageHO@yahoogroups.com" <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Date: Tuesday, October 25, 2011, 7:27 PM   Hi Tod, I thought it was at first too, but it is all plastic. Thanks,   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17552	From: Glenn	Date: 10/25/2011
Subject: MTS

Does anyone know if Model Tramway Systems is still in business?  a friend has picked up some of their kits and is looking for info.  thx--gj

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17553	From: John H	Date: 10/25/2011
Subject: Re: RIVAROSSI MOBIL GAS PIGGYBACK TANK TRAILER FLAT CAR

It is too "bulky" for a Ulrich. looks a lot like me, short and fat. Ulrichs are long and low, kind of "lithe" looking. John Hagen --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > Hi Tod, > > I thought it was at first too, but it is all plastic. > > > Thanks, > >   > Sean > > > "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! > > > ________________________________ > From: Riverboy <river_dweller_ohio@...> > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2011 7:13 PM > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] RIVAROSSI MOBIL GAS PIGGYBACK TANK TRAILER FLAT CAR > > >   > Hi Group, >   > Am I right in thinking the tank trailer is actually an Ulrich trailer marketed under the Rivarossi name? If not, it sure looks similar. >   > Tod (Ohio) > > >   > > --- On Tue, 10/25/11, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > > >From: Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> > >Subject: [vintageHO] RIVAROSSI MOBIL GAS PIGGYBACK TANK TRAILER FLAT CAR > >To: "vintageHO@yahoogroups.com" <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > >Date: Tuesday, October 25, 2011, 5:52 PM > > > > > >  > >Hi Guys, > > > > > >I have a car listed on eBay and I was wondering if it was produced by Rivarossi for Lionel. It is ending in a few hours, but I was just curious. > > > >RARE VINTAGE HO ITALY RIVAROSSI MOBIL GAS PIGGYBACK TAN... > >  > >Thanks in advance guys! > > > > > >Sean > > > > > >"If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17554	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 10/25/2011
Subject: Re: RIVAROSSI MOBIL GAS PIGGYBACK TANK TRAILER FLAT CAR

I'm guessing more likely AristoCraft. I have a Rossi/Lionel gondola, and it has the little Lionel "L" on the side. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sean Naylor" <a69mustang4me@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2011 4:52 PM Subject: [vintageHO] RIVAROSSI MOBIL GAS PIGGYBACK TANK TRAILER FLAT CAR Hi Guys, I have a car listed on eBay and I was wondering if it was produced by Rivarossi for Lionel. It is ending in a few hours, but I was just curious. RARE VINTAGE HO ITALY RIVAROSSI MOBIL GAS PIGGYBACK TAN... Thanks in advance guys! Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17555	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 10/25/2011
Subject: Re: RIVAROSSI MOBIL GAS PIGGYBACK TANK TRAILER FLAT CAR

It's a Red Ball or Silver Streak, if it's the unit I'm thinking of.... -Gareth

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17556	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 10/25/2011
Subject: Re: RIVAROSSI MOBIL GAS PIGGYBACK TANK TRAILER FLAT CAR

No Guys, It is all plastic. NO wood or metal like Ulrich, Redball or Silver Streak and it is marked Rivarossi. I am just wondering if it was produced for Lionel.    Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: J. Gareth Edwards <jgpedwards@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2011 8:17 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] RIVAROSSI MOBIL GAS PIGGYBACK TANK TRAILER FLAT CAR   It's a Red Ball or Silver Streak, if it's the unit I'm thinking of.... -Gareth

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17557	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 10/25/2011
Subject: Re: RIVAROSSI MOBIL GAS PIGGYBACK TANK TRAILER FLAT CAR

Sean: I stand corrected, even though I'm sitting! ;) Btw, you never answered my email about the Docksider, Yardbird etc..... :( -Gareth On 25 October 2011 23:04, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote:   No Guys, It is all plastic. NO wood or metal like Ulrich, Redball or Silver Streak and it is marked Rivarossi. I am just wondering if it was produced for Lionel.    Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: J. Gareth Edwards <jgpedwards@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2011 8:17 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] RIVAROSSI MOBIL GAS PIGGYBACK TANK TRAILER FLAT CAR   It's a Red Ball or Silver Streak, if it's the unit I'm thinking of.... -Gareth -- "Clear Eyes, Full Heart, Can't Lose!"

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17558	From: Garry Spear	Date: 10/25/2011
Subject: FS: 1948 Varney Catalog

I have a very nice 1948 Varney catalog for sale.  The inside pages are as nice as the cover.  the only problem is the center sheet has come loose from the staples. The catalog has pictures of all the Varney steam locomotives.  The streamlined boiler, Yellowstone or Challenger boiler, super and standard pacifics and mikados, plus others.  High quality drawings of mechanisms and motors.  Freight and Passenger cars; most all of the Varney "collectible" items. Asking for Offers over $5.00.  Media mail shipping is included in the price.  First class or priority shipping is available for extra cost, if interested as the cost. Scan of the cover: http://choose.site40.net/Varney1948I.jpg  Cash, check, money order, or paypal for an extra .50 cents. Garrett (Garry) Spear

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17559	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 10/26/2011
Subject: Re: RIVAROSSI MOBIL GAS PIGGYBACK TANK TRAILER FLAT CAR

Attachments : PRR 357843 dt.jpg As I mentioned before, mist models I've seen produced for Lionel had the little "L" logo (see attachment). That's why I said Aristocraft, or even very early AHM (I have a catalog somewhere, I'll try and find it tonight). Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sean Naylor" <a69mustang4me@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2011 10:04 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] RIVAROSSI MOBIL GAS PIGGYBACK TANK TRAILER FLAT CAR No Guys, It is all plastic. NO wood or metal like Ulrich, Redball or Silver Streak and it is marked Rivarossi. I am just wondering if it was produced for Lionel. Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 17560	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 10/26/2011
Subject: Re: RIVAROSSI MOBIL GAS PIGGYBACK TANK TRAILER FLAT CAR [1 Attachmen

I hear you Don, However, there were at one time decals on the model that have come off. In addition, the guy who placed most of the bids, (but lost still) purchases exclusively HO Lionel, from what I can tell from his feedback. I did see this once before and seem to remember it being listed as Lionel too. I just find it suspect that someone who purchased exclusively HO Lionel would be so interested in such a piece.   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2011 8:36 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] RIVAROSSI MOBIL GAS PIGGYBACK TANK TRAILER FLAT CAR [1 Attachment]   As I mentioned before, mist models I've seen produced for Lionel had the little "L" logo (see attachment). That's why I said Aristocraft, or even very early AHM (I have a catalog somewhere, I'll try and find it tonight). Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sean Naylor" <a69mustang4me@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2011 10:04 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] RIVAROSSI MOBIL GAS PIGGYBACK TANK TRAILER FLAT CAR No Guys, It is all plastic. NO wood or metal like Ulrich, Redball or Silver Streak and it is marked Rivarossi. I am just wondering if it was produced for Lionel. Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17561	From: corv9	Date: 10/26/2011
Subject: Re: MTS

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Glenn" <glenn476@...> wrote: > > Does anyone know if Model Tramway Systems is still in business? a friend has picked up some of their kits and is looking for info. thx--gj > Eastern Traction Models/ Model Tramway Systems (MTSys) / Fairfield vanished when Bert Sas died. I think Joel Lovich later sold some identical models under the MTS label, which is still in existence. Go to http://www.hoseeker.net/lit.html and check the respective catalogs in the "interurbans" section, you will find some catalogs. I also have an 1962 MTSys catalog on file, not sure if I ever sent it to Larry. Gerold - Larry: if you dont have it in your files, let me know. Maybe its already there, and I didnt notice.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17562	From: al45390	Date: 10/26/2011
Subject: Some help needed

A friend of mine wrote and asked for help. I told him I would ask around. He wrote, "I have several HO cars, believe to be AHM/Riverosi that use a plastic rivet to secure the HO truck to the chassis. Alas, I have none. Need about twelve. Do you have a source?" Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17563	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 10/26/2011
Subject: Re: Some help needed

You might find some on eBay.  If these cars were mine, I would glue in a short length of styrene rod or tube with a snug fit and after it dried, I would then drill and tap for 2-56 and use a 2-56 screw.  I also would throw away the original "Talgo" trucks and those horrible "pizza cutter" wheels, and use something better, like Kadee trucks, or if I didn't want to spend that much, I would use Tichy, Accurail, or P2K trucks, with METAL wheels.  I would also mount Kadee couplers to the body.  I do like AHM/Rivarrosi cars, because they have unique paint jobs and decent detail and you can get a lot of them cheap. Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: bayerw2@... Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2011 14:21:21 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Some help needed   A friend of mine wrote and asked for help. I told him I would ask around. He wrote, "I have several HO cars, believe to be AHM/Riverosi that use a plastic rivet to secure the HO truck to the chassis. Alas, I have none. Need about twelve. Do you have a source?" Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17564	From: Garry Spear	Date: 10/26/2011
Subject: Fwd: FS: 1948 Varney Catalog

---------- Forwarded message ---------- This is a catalog with pages of parts and a big (2 Page) drawing of the super pacific mechanism.  Additional picture. yes, There are many pages of parts. A Sample: http://choose.site40.net/Varney1948_2.jpg There are some double page images (will not fit in my scanner); including a double page engineering drawings of the super pacific running gear  including the super motor.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17565	From: Mike Sloane	Date: 10/26/2011
Subject: Re: Some help needed

I was going to reply with virtually the same comments as Vic's. I followed pretty much the same route and am very happy with the results. the process is not at all difficult or time consuming, and the results are well worth it. Mike On 10/26/2011 10:53 AM, Victor Bitleris wrote: > You might find some on eBay. If these cars were mine, I would glue in a > short length of styrene rod or tube with a snug fit and after it dried, > I would then drill and tap for 2-56 and use a 2-56 screw. I also would > throw away the original "Talgo" trucks and those horrible "pizza cutter" > wheels, and use something better, like Kadee trucks, or if I didn't want > to spend that much, I would use Tichy, Accurail, or P2K trucks, with > METAL wheels. I would also mount Kadee couplers to the body. I do like > AHM/Rivarrosi cars, because they have unique paint jobs and decent > detail and you can get a lot of them cheap. > > Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > From: bayerw2@... > Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2011 14:21:21 +0000 > Subject: [vintageHO] Some help needed > > A friend of mine wrote and asked for help. I told him I would ask > around. He wrote, "I have several HO cars, believe to be AHM/Riverosi > that use a plastic rivet to secure the HO truck to the chassis. Alas, I > have none. Need about twelve. Do you have a source?" > Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17566	From: bcerestrains	Date: 10/26/2011
Subject: Re: RIVAROSSI MOBIL GAS PIGGYBACK TANK TRAILER FLAT CAR [1 Attachmen

Dear Sean: I am a Lionel HO collector and the Mobil gas flat car was never made by Rivarossi for Lionel sale. I have seen the car in MIB condition in the Rivarossi red window boxes that were sold prior to the AHM distribution period (late 1950's to early 1960's I believe). Bruce --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > I hear you Don, > > However, there were at one time decals on the model that have come off. In addition, the guy who placed most of the bids, (but lost still) purchases exclusively HO Lionel, from what I can tell from his feedback. I did see this once before and seem to remember it being listed as Lionel too. I just find it suspect that someone who purchased exclusively HO Lionel would be so interested in such a piece. > >   > Sean > > > "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! > > > ________________________________ > From: Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2011 8:36 AM > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] RIVAROSSI MOBIL GAS PIGGYBACK TANK TRAILER FLAT CAR [1 Attachment] > > >   > [Attachment(s) from Don Dellmann included below] > As I mentioned before, mist models I've seen produced for Lionel had the > little "L" logo (see attachment). That's why I said Aristocraft, or even > very early AHM (I have a catalog somewhere, I'll try and find it tonight). > > Don > > Don Dellmann > don.dellmann@... > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ > http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction > Owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Sean Naylor" <a69mustang4me@...> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2011 10:04 PM > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] RIVAROSSI MOBIL GAS PIGGYBACK TANK TRAILER FLAT CAR > > No Guys, > > It is all plastic. NO wood or metal like Ulrich, Redball or Silver Streak > and it is marked Rivarossi. I am just wondering if it was produced for > Lionel. > > Sean > > "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario > Andretti! >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17567	From: william witte	Date: 10/26/2011
Subject: Re: RIVAROSSI MOBIL GAS PIGGYBACK TANK TRAILER FLAT CAR

Rivarossi first cataloged the Mobilegas Piggyback car in 1959. It was offered for sale until the mid to late 60s. The Mobilgas tank-trailer  with a tractor was cataloged in 1961.  Rivarossi also offered Southern Pacific and Santa Fe trailer Piggyback cars in the 60s. There are also European versions of these cars, different road names.   Bill   From: bcerestrains <bceres@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2011 10:03 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: RIVAROSSI MOBIL GAS PIGGYBACK TANK TRAILER FLAT CAR   Dear Sean: I am a Lionel HO collector and the Mobil gas flat car was never made by Rivarossi for Lionel sale. I have seen the car in MIB condition in the Rivarossi red window boxes that were sold prior to the AHM distribution period (late 1950's to early 1960's I believe). Bruce --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > I hear you Don, > > However, there were at one time decals on the model that have come off. In addition, the guy who placed most of the bids, (but lost still) purchases exclusively HO Lionel, from what I can tell from his feedback. I did see this once before and seem to remember it being listed as Lionel too. I just find it suspect that someone who purchased exclusively HO Lionel would be so interested in such a piece. > >   > Sean > > > "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! > > > ________________________________ > From: Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2011 8:36 AM > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] RIVAROSSI MOBIL GAS PIGGYBACK TANK TRAILER FLAT CAR [1 Attachment] > > >   > [Attachment(s) from Don Dellmann included below] > As I mentioned before, mist models I've seen produced for Lionel had the > little "L" logo (see attachment). That's why I said Aristocraft, or even > very early AHM (I have a catalog somewhere, I'll try and find it tonight). > > Don > > Don Dellmann > don.dellmann@... > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ > http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction > Owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Sean Naylor" <a69mustang4me@...> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2011 10:04 PM > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] RIVAROSSI MOBIL GAS PIGGYBACK TANK TRAILER FLAT CAR > > No Guys, > > It is all plastic. NO wood or metal like Ulrich, Redball or Silver Streak > and it is marked Rivarossi. I am just wondering if it was produced for > Lionel. > > Sean > > "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario > Andretti! >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17568	From: estabrook@aol.com	Date: 10/26/2011
Subject: Re: RIVAROSSI MOBIL GAS PIGGYBACK TANK TRAILER FLAT CAR

I had one of the Rivarossi PRR flat cars with a scar where the mounting post had been - always wondered what it was for! Reed ---- Original Message ---- From: Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tue, Oct 25, 2011 11:04 pm Subject: Re: [vintageHO] RIVAROSSI MOBIL GAS PIGGYBACK TANK TRAILER FLAT CAR   No Guys, It is all plastic. NO wood or metal like Ulrich, Redball or Silver Streak and it is marked Rivarossi. I am just wondering if it was produced for Lionel.    Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: J. Gareth Edwards <jgpedwards@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2011 8:17 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] RIVAROSSI MOBIL GAS PIGGYBACK TANK TRAILER FLAT CAR   It's a Red Ball or Silver Streak, if it's the unit I'm thinking of.... -Gareth

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17569	From: estabrook@aol.com	Date: 10/26/2011
Subject: Re: RIVAROSSI MOBIL GAS PIGGYBACK TANK TRAILER FLAT CAR

My 1976 AHM catalog shows under NEW! FUTURE RELEASE - "Flat Car with Truck Load"  5374-C Pennsylvania  (No picture) Price was $2.98. Reed ---- Original Message ---- From: Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> To: vintageHO <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wed, Oct 26, 2011 9:30 am Subject: Re: [vintageHO] RIVAROSSI MOBIL GAS PIGGYBACK TANK TRAILER FLAT CAR   I hear you Don, However, there were at one time decals on the model that have come off. In addition, the guy who placed most of the bids, (but lost still) purchases exclusively HO Lionel, from what I can tell from his feedback. I did see this once before and seem to remember it being listed as Lionel too. I just find it suspect that someone who purchased exclusively HO Lionel would be so interested in such a piece.   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2011 8:36 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] RIVAROSSI MOBIL GAS PIGGYBACK TANK TRAILER FLAT CAR [1 Attachment]   As I mentioned before, mist models I've seen produced for Lionel had the little "L" logo (see attachment). That's why I said Aristocraft, or even very early AHM (I have a catalog somewhere, I'll try and find it tonight). Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sean Naylor" <a69mustang4me@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2011 10:04 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] RIVAROSSI MOBIL GAS PIGGYBACK TANK TRAILER FLAT CAR No Guys, It is all plastic. NO wood or metal like Ulrich, Redball or Silver Streak and it is marked Rivarossi. I am just wondering if it was produced for Lionel. Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17570	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 10/26/2011
Subject: Re: Some help needed

Using a 1/8 “ diameter tube will come with a hole almost ready for the 2-56 screw, so a quick tap run will get it ready.  Just the screw can do it if you run the screw in a few times before you glue the tube in the frame.  There is an article in a Model Railroader by Andy S. about passenger cars and this is mentioned there.   Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Victor Bitleris Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2011 10:53 AM To: vintageho@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Some help needed     You might find some on eBay.  If these cars were mine, I would glue in a short length of styrene rod or tube with a snug fit and after it dried, I would then drill and tap for 2-56 and use a 2-56 screw.  I also would throw away the original "Talgo" trucks and those horrible "pizza cutter" wheels, and use something better, like Kadee trucks, or if I didn't want to spend that much, I would use Tichy, Accurail, or P2K trucks, with METAL wheels.  I would also mount Kadee couplers to the body.  I do like AHM/Rivarrosi cars, because they have unique paint jobs and decent detail and you can get a lot of them cheap. Vic Bitleris Raleigh , NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: bayerw2@... Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2011 14:21:21 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Some help needed   A friend of mine wrote and asked for help. I told him I would ask around. He wrote, "I have several HO cars, believe to be AHM/Riverosi that use a plastic rivet to secure the HO truck to the chassis. Alas, I have none. Need about twelve. Do you have a source?" Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17572	From: boxcar4willhe	Date: 10/27/2011
Subject: Re: Some help needed

Hi, Thanks for this information. This will help me get some old cars back on the track. Lon Walker, Northern Ill. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Chuck Higdon" <vze5crrw1@...> wrote: > > Using a 1/8 " diameter tube will come with a hole almost ready for the 2-56 > screw, so a quick tap run will get it ready. Just the screw can do it if > you run the screw in a few times before you glue the tube in the frame. > There is an article in a Model Railroader by Andy S. about passenger cars > and this is mentioned there. > > > > Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at > http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104 > > > > _____ > > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf > Of Victor Bitleris > Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2011 10:53 AM > To: vintageho@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Some help needed > > > > > > You might find some on eBay. If these cars were mine, I would glue in a > short length of styrene rod or tube with a snug fit and after it dried, I > would then drill and tap for 2-56 and use a 2-56 screw. I also would throw > away the original "Talgo" trucks and those horrible "pizza cutter" wheels, > and use something better, like Kadee trucks, or if I didn't want to spend > that much, I would use Tichy, Accurail, or P2K trucks, with METAL wheels. I > would also mount Kadee couplers to the body. I do like AHM/Rivarrosi cars, > because they have unique paint jobs and decent detail and you can get a lot > of them cheap. > > Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC > > _____ > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > From: bayerw2@... > Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2011 14:21:21 +0000 > Subject: [vintageHO] Some help needed > > > > A friend of mine wrote and asked for help. I told him I would ask around. He > wrote, "I have several HO cars, believe to be AHM/Riverosi that use a > plastic rivet to secure the HO truck to the chassis. Alas, I have none. Need > about twelve. Do you have a source?" > Walter >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17573	From: boxcar4willhe	Date: 10/27/2011
Subject: "TWO RAIL" Mantua booklet

Hi All, I got a booklet with a train set recently and I wonderd if this is a common booklet. It is: "TWO RAIL" Switch & Circuits By Mantua Metal Products co Woodbury Heights, New Jersy copyright 1939 It is written in a very direct folksey style and explains wiring for passing sidings, yards, crossings, reverse loops etc. It states two constant rules and has a list of trouble shooting suggestions. Let me know if you have seen this before. Thanks. Lon Walker, Northern Ill.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17574	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 10/27/2011
Subject: Re: "TWO RAIL" Mantua booklet

I haven't seen it and I've been buying and building Mantua productrs since 1948.  But I do recall my Dad and his brothers discussing converting their prewar motive power to DC.  Jake Bechtel Gadsden, AL On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 1:21 PM, boxcar4willhe <wlon17@...> wrote:  Hi All,  I got a booklet with a train set recently and I wonderd if this is a common booklet. It is:          "TWO RAIL"      Switch & Circuits   By Mantua Metal Products co   Woodbury Heights, New Jersy         copyright 1939  It is written in a very direct folksey style and explains wiring for passing sidings, yards, crossings, reverse loops etc. It states two constant rules and has a list of trouble shooting suggestions.  Let me know if you have seen this before. Thanks. Lon Walker,  Northern Ill. ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings:    Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to:    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join    (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email:    vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com    vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:    vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17575	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 10/27/2011
Subject: Re: "TWO RAIL" Mantua booklet

I have one. Mine is copyright 1941, however. Interesting book. I think mine got some minor water damage when I moved in 2010, but it is still readable. -Steve Neubaum --- On Thu, 10/27/11, boxcar4willhe <wlon17@...> wrote: From: boxcar4willhe <wlon17@...> Subject: [vintageHO] "TWO RAIL" Mantua booklet To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, October 27, 2011, 1:21 PM   Hi All, I got a booklet with a train set recently and I wonderd if this is a common booklet. It is: "TWO RAIL" Switch & Circuits By Mantua Metal Products co Woodbury Heights, New Jersy copyright 1939 It is written in a very direct folksey style and explains wiring for passing sidings, yards, crossings, reverse loops etc. It states two constant rules and has a list of trouble shooting suggestions. Let me know if you have seen this before. Thanks. Lon Walker, Northern Ill.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17576	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 10/28/2011
Subject: Off Topic request

Does anyone recall which episode of The Wild Wild West is about a hidden, very high pressure boiler advanced armored attack locomotive hidden in a cave some where in the West? I know I saw this ages ago and would love to find the episode and see about building a model of this beast. I've bought all but the first season of the show and I don't see anything of this episode in any of the descriptions of the series. I'll get the first season soon. I know I saw it way back when............ Where the heck was this episode???? Thanks, Mike Bauers

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17577	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 10/28/2011
Subject: Re: Off Topic request

Mike,   Google Wild Wild West. There's a ton of info available about the individual series.   Art W   In a message dated 10/28/2011 7:32:17 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, mwbauers55@... writes: Does anyone recall which episode of The Wild Wild West is about a hidden, very high pressure boiler advanced armored attack locomotive hidden in a cave some where in the West? I know I saw this ages ago and would love to find the episode and see about building a model of this beast. I've bought all but the first season of the show and I don't see anything of this episode in any of the descriptions of the series. I'll get the first season soon. I know I saw it way back when............ Where the heck was this episode???? Thanks, Mike Bauers ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings:     Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join     (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email:     vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com     vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:     vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17578	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 10/28/2011
Subject: Re: "TWO RAIL" Mantua booklet

Hi Lon, This Mantua "Two Rail" booklet was published from 1939 through 1947, except for the War years of 1943 and 1944. It was advertised in the small (6 1/4" x 10 1/2") format Mantua Handbook/Catalogs of 1940, '41, 42, '45, '46 & '47 (it is not found in the smaller 1938 or 1939 4 1/8" x 6 5/8" Catalogs) -- very near the last page of the later pre-War and the first three post-War editions, next to ads for "Model Railroader" and "Craftsman" magazines, under the heading; "Having Trouble With Two-Rail Switch Circuits?" The text of the ad stated; "Fourteen (14) pages of clear, understandable instructions: nineteen (19) diagrams showing the necessary 'breaks' etc., to take care of the electrical circuits for any track system. This booklet is for either A.C. or D.C. systems in any gauge. Have YOU a two-rail problem? You will find the right answer to it in our booklet 'TWO-RAIL' at the low cost of 25c (postpaid)." This ad was discontinued with the introduction of the large (8 1/2" x 11") format Mantua Handbook/Catalog brought out in 1948. As you'll note, the modeler had to send for it vs the Handbook/Catalogs being available at the LHS, so comparatively fewer people did take the time to write away for them -- even though the Catalogs were also available by mail (in addition to being at the LHS). As such, this publication is far scarcer than the Handbooks/Catalogs, which themselves aren't exactly plentiful today. Ray F. Wetzel</HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17579	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 10/28/2011
Subject: Re: RIVAROSSI MOBIL GAS PIGGYBACK TANK TRAILER FLAT CAR

Thanks Bruce!   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: bcerestrains <bceres@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2011 10:03 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: RIVAROSSI MOBIL GAS PIGGYBACK TANK TRAILER FLAT CAR   Dear Sean: I am a Lionel HO collector and the Mobil gas flat car was never made by Rivarossi for Lionel sale. I have seen the car in MIB condition in the Rivarossi red window boxes that were sold prior to the AHM distribution period (late 1950's to early 1960's I believe). Bruce --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > I hear you Don, > > However, there were at one time decals on the model that have come off. In addition, the guy who placed most of the bids, (but lost still) purchases exclusively HO Lionel, from what I can tell from his feedback. I did see this once before and seem to remember it being listed as Lionel too. I just find it suspect that someone who purchased exclusively HO Lionel would be so interested in such a piece. > >   > Sean > > > "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! > > > ________________________________ > From: Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2011 8:36 AM > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] RIVAROSSI MOBIL GAS PIGGYBACK TANK TRAILER FLAT CAR [1 Attachment] > > >   > [Attachment(s) from Don Dellmann included below] > As I mentioned before, mist models I've seen produced for Lionel had the > little "L" logo (see attachment). That's why I said Aristocraft, or even > very early AHM (I have a catalog somewhere, I'll try and find it tonight). > > Don > > Don Dellmann > don.dellmann@... > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ > http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction > Owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Sean Naylor" <a69mustang4me@...> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2011 10:04 PM > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] RIVAROSSI MOBIL GAS PIGGYBACK TANK TRAILER FLAT CAR > > No Guys, > > It is all plastic. NO wood or metal like Ulrich, Redball or Silver Streak > and it is marked Rivarossi. I am just wondering if it was produced for > Lionel. > > Sean > > "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario > Andretti! >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17580	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 10/28/2011
Subject: Re: RIVAROSSI MOBIL GAS PIGGYBACK TANK TRAILER FLAT CAR

Sean??? -Gareth On 28 October 2011 12:02, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote:   Thanks Bruce!   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17581	From: Charles	Date: 10/28/2011
Subject: Re: Off Topic request

For anything movie or TV related, I usually start at: www.imdb.com ("Internet Movie Data Base). If you searche for "Wild Wild West" and select the 1965 TV show series, you get: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0058855/ If you scroll down to "Explore More About The Wild Wild West" you will see "episode list" Click on that and you will get a short synopsis of each episode. I gave it a quick perusal and didn't see anything that matched your description, but maybe I missed it. But if you read the descriptions, you may see something that rings a bell. Here is wikipedia's list: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_The_Wild_Wild_West_episodes And here is TV Guide's list: http://www.tvguide.com/tvshows/wild-wild-west/episodes/205525 You could also go to the fan site http://www.wildwildwest.org/ and perhaps ask there. (Just about anything you can name has rabid fans with more time on their hands and are "subject matter experts".) Chuck Kinzer --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, luvprr@... wrote: > > Mike, > > Google Wild Wild West. There's a ton of info available about the individual > series. > > Art W > > > In a message dated 10/28/2011 7:32:17 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > mwbauers55@... writes: > > Does anyone recall which episode of The Wild Wild West is about a hidden, > very high pressure boiler advanced armored attack locomotive hidden in a > cave some where in the West? > > I know I saw this ages ago and would love to find the episode and see > about building a model of this beast. > > I've bought all but the first season of the show and I don't see anything > of this episode in any of the descriptions of the series. I'll get the > first season soon. > > I know I saw it way back when............ Where the heck was this > episode???? > > Thanks, > > Mike Bauers > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17582	From: dennyanspach	Date: 10/28/2011
Subject: Re: "TWO RAIL" Mantua booklet

The booklet was written by "Eric LaNal", a very influential early HO pied piper whose real name was Alan Rice Lake. He did as much as anybody else to promote the advantages of the new two rail DC system on which all of our current operations are based. Denny Denny S.  Anspach MD Sacramento

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17583	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 10/28/2011
Subject: Re: "TWO RAIL" Mantua booklet

Thanks Denny!     I really think that it is important that we remember the people who contributed so much simply because of love of the hobby.  "Eric LaNal" contributed to every magazine and helped get the NMRA off the grounds.  He was truly one of the giants of the hobby.  I learned the basics of electricity from his writings, also how to balance motors, clearance bearing, spring trucks and drivers, equalize rigid frame trucks, install and modify couplers, detail locos, gauge wheels and on and on and on!  I believe that at least 1/2 of everything I ever learned about modeling originated from him!    Thank you for remembering and introducing the man to a couple of generations who never had the chance to get to know him. Jake Bechtel Gadsden, AL On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 11:46 AM, dennyanspach <danspach@...> wrote: The booklet was written by "Eric LaNal", a very influential early HO pied piper whose real name was Alan Rice Lake. He did as much as anybody else to promote the advantages of the new two rail DC system on which all of our current operations are based. Denny Denny S.  Anspach MD Sacramento

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17584	From: Railroad Modeler	Date: 10/28/2011
Subject: Re: Off Topic request

Mike,   As I recall, “The Night of the Juggernaut” featured a steam-powered tankomotive. Season 4, episode 3.   Regards,   Ken Berry       From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mike Bauers Sent: Friday, October 28, 2011 5:32 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Off Topic request Does anyone recall which episode of The Wild Wild West is about a hidden, very high pressure boiler advanced armored attack locomotive hidden in a cave some where in the West? I know I saw this ages ago and would love to find the episode and see about building a model of this beast. I've bought all but the first season of the show and I don't see anything of this episode in any of the descriptions of the series. I'll get the first season soon. I know I saw it way back when............ Where the heck was this episode???? Thanks, Mike Bauers

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17585	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 10/29/2011
Subject: Not really a vintage question, but still wondering...

All, Most here have probably run across the Tyco "Silver Streak" locomotive and caboose. From what I found here: http://tycotrain.tripod.com/tycotrains/id92.html It was first produced in 1978. The Gene Wilder/Richard Pryor movie of the same name came out two years before, in 1976. I have often wondered if there was any sort of connection between the movie, and the Tyco train? The text font in "Silver Streak" on the Tyco train, is similar to the font used on the train in the movie. That kind of really gets the mind going. Given that Tyco also produced, though later on, a GI Joe and A-Team train set, I wonder if this was an earlier, more subtle tie in of some kind? For what it's worth, my first HO scale piece, was the Tyco Silver Streak caboose. My dad got it for me at a hobby shop when I was maybe six years old. I liked the train scenes in the movie, that he had for me on VHS tape, recorded off TV, so he got the caboose for decoration in my room as a tie-in. I was exclusively into 3-rail Lionel O gauge at the time, not getting into HO scale till I as maybe 14 or so. -Steve Neubaum

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17586	From: RalphB	Date: 10/30/2011
Subject: Re: Not really a vintage question, but still wondering...

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Steve Neubaum wrote: > > Most here have probably run across the Tyco "Silver Streak" locomotive and caboose. From what I found (it) was first produced in 1978. > > The Gene Wilder/Richard Pryor movie of the same name came out two years before, in 1976. I have often wondered if there was any sort of connection between the movie, and the Tyco train? -------------------- To the best of my knowledge, no. The movie featured a pair of barely-disguised CP EMD FP-7s; the models are Alco Century 630s (C630s). There are two of the Tyco units down in my basement. My son started to paint his for his own shortline railroad just before girls and cars got his attention. I bought mine for a planned conversion to a Norfolk and Western C630 that was built on the trucks of traded-in FM Train Masters; the plan was to use an Athearn Train Master mechanism. The N&W units were the only hi-hood C-630s, and the Tyco model is a fair representation of this rare unit (only 10 built with high short hoods). Ralph Balfoort

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17587	From: MRLENGAL2U@aol.com	Date: 10/30/2011
Subject: Re: Wondering... TYCO conversation crossover

It's interesting to see a question about a TYCO item here... which I'm surprised doesn't happen more often. Most people wouldn't consider the TYCO products Vintage... but there is definitely a place for them somewhere outside out the TYCO Collectors Resource website and forum. If people shun them because of their inferior drive mechanisms... then we should do the same for many other early HO locos... ( *Cough*... Penn Line Diesels ). If we should disregard them for their inaccuracies regarding scale and prototype... then we should do the same for most early freight efforts. I respect the difference between TYCO items and true Vintage HO... and the forums should remain separate... but we should also be open minded to the thought that someone at least went to some effort to bring products to the Hobby that maybe don't fall in line with what we consider True Vintage... but have a place in the History of our chosen Hobby.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17588	From: rcjge	Date: 10/30/2011
Subject: Re: Wondering... TYCO conversation crossover

As an ex-Tyco Collectors Forum Moderator, it would be pretty sad to see people say Tyco doesn't belong here if someone wanted to bring it up.... My first model train of my own was a Tyco "Davenport". I loved it and sorta still do. Moved on to Athearn BB's shortly after, but a Tyco IS Vintage even if of poor pedigree. Of course having said all that, if someone wanted to go into detail I'd certainly point them at the TCF. It's a very enjoyable model train environment, and rather open minded in that most model train stuff gets discussed there albeit more towards the toyish side. The Highball signal is given, Gareth --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, MRLENGAL2U@... wrote: > > > > > It's interesting to see a question about a TYCO item here... which I'm surprised doesn't happen more often. Most people wouldn't consider the TYCO products Vintage... but there is definitely a place for them somewhere outside out the TYCO Collectors Resource website and forum. If people shun them because of their inferior drive mechanisms... then we should do the same for many other early HO locos... ( *Cough*... Penn Line Diesels ). If we should disregard them for their inaccuracies regarding scale and prototype... then we should do the same for most early freight efforts. I respect the difference between TYCO items and true Vintage HO... and the forums should remain separate... but we should also be open minded to the thought that someone at least went to some effort to bring products to the Hobby that maybe don't fall in line with what we consider True Vintage... but have a place in the History of our chosen Hobby. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17589	From: J. Gareth Edwards	Date: 10/30/2011
Subject: Re: Walthers HH thread WAS Walthers Passenger Car Discussion & Chron

Hey Jay: Clearing old emails.... Are you still interested in the Walthers car? and did you take photos of your bronze HH? Best, Gareth On 22 August 2011 09:21, Jay <the_plainsman@...> wrote:   Gareth, Will try to get clear photos up around weeks end, need a new digital camera, lol! W. Jay W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "rcjge" <jgpedwards@...> wrote: > > Re: [vintageHO] Re: Alco HH powering > > Hi Jay: > > Can you fire me a pic of your bronze "HH"? > > One of my fave switchers too. > > I was planning to round not the sides of the roofline but rather the nose at the top and sides to get the more customary look of the later models (prototype). My issue there as with many of us is the orthodoxy of it. You're right, Walthers actually say in #2 to break (round) the sides of the hood and roofline. Probably has to do with the edge being created by a mold to allow easier release. > > Anyway, I have to have that argument with myself. The advantage of using the Athearn or Varney power solutions is I'd have all wheel pick-up and power. I like the idea but it's then less vintage.... Hmmmmm, back to being a Vintage Train Heretic and apostate! :P If it's going to sit and be a; "yes that's a vintage model train"! then the original power trucks are the way to go... If I want to operate it, and if I understand correctly that the shell was sold separately from early on then I would likely be one of a hundred who used the Varney Switcher chassis to power it. That's a reformed view if not orthodox! ;) > > -Gareth > > > > > > On 21 August 2011 13:39, Jay <the_plainsman@> wrote: > > > > Hi Gareth, > > Lucky for you to get an original power truck. Do you know if it is 6 volt or 12 volt truck? Count the poles, (3 poles are 6 volt) and if 6 volt, do not apply more than 8 volts for breif periods!! Here is the link to the September 1946 edition of the atractive Walthers Alco HH plans and instructions that appear on HOSeeker: > > http://hoseeker.org/walthers/walthers6410alcodiesel1946.jpg > > Instruction paragraph #2 discusses rounding some of the edges and the plans indicate where with a small "R." As for as the prototype, only the first eight units had completely flat fronts with no rounded corners whatsoever like the Walthers model; only the sides to hood top were rounded, and of those eight original units, seven went to the Lackawanna. > > The Walthers cast lead Alco HH switchers were introduced in the 1941 Walthers HO catalog, published in April of that year. However, Walthers kept using the photograph of the smaller completely different sand cast bronze model though 1948. This gave many the impression that except for materials, both models were identical. > Finally in their 1949 catalog, an actual photo of the cast lead model was used. But in 1950, probably because the older photo was clearer, they went right back to using the 1938 bronze model photo, LOL! > > The original, slightly smaller sand cast bronze model (narrower hood, appx 1/2" shorter overall, different cab roof), was introduced in an ad in December 1938 Model Railraoder (as referred to in various 1939 Walthers ads). It was featured and described as made of bronze castings in their 1939 and 1940 catalogs. > > I do not have plans for either the original bronze version or the 1942 cast lead version. > > The Alco HH is my favorite prototype switcher, likely since I first saw them as a single digit kid from the back seat of the family car, working the Erie's yard leads in the late 1950's when we were going to the city (NYC) via the Holland Tunnel. Finding a cast broze model about 20 years ago at train show and buying it despite the fact that someone had tried to pry off the hood top with a crowbar or pound in tent pegs - I did not even know it was made by Walthers for sure - but took that leap of faith as a neat model to have, bought it and have been a vintage modeler and collector ever since. > > A wonderful, comprehensive soft cover guide to the prototype Alco HH switchers was published a few years ago by Withers and includes photos of at least one unit, usually more for every order ever built. > > https://secure.witherspublishing.com:7444/catalog/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=26&products_id=185&osCsid=cf0ca02bda0b1d1a1c45235ba023b929 > > It is pouring rain now, no grass to cut today! > > W. Jay W. > -- "Clear Eyes, Full Heart!"

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17590	From: mermaidnc	Date: 10/30/2011
Subject: brass drivers

my first steam loco in the 1960s was a Revell 0-6-0t with brass drivers. track was bras snap track. of course, oxide on the rail and drivers made for poor running. i now use nickel silver rail. I still have some MDC Roundhouse loco kits, which I haven't built; they are from the 80's, and have brass drivers. I thought of using something like No-Ox, or a blackening chemical, but assume anything short of electroplating would wear off fairly soon. has anyone had any success in keeping brass drivers from oxidizing? geo

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17591	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 10/31/2011
Subject: Re: RIVAROSSI MOBIL GAS PIGGYBACK TANK TRAILER FLAT CAR

Hi Guys, I posed the question after the car sold to the gent in Ohio that purchased it.  I asked him if he thought it had originally been produced for Lionel by Rivarossi. This was his reply as of about 10 minutes ago.   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: eBay Member: cwocnrr <cwocnr_exn4799rgzm@...> To: a69mustang4me@... Sent: Monday, October 31, 2011 2:23 PM Subject: Other: cwocnrr sent a message about RARE VINTAGE HO ITALY RIVAROSSI MOBIL GAS PIGGYBACK TANK TRAILER FLAT CAR #320778064659                         eBay sent this message to Sean Naylor (a69mustang4me). Your registered name is included to show this message originated from eBay. Learn more. This member has a question for you. Do not respond to the sender if this message requests that you complete the transaction outside of eBay. This type of offer is against eBay policy, may be fraudulent, and is not covered by buyer protection programs. Learn More.                         Dear a69mustang4me, Sean, I think you are right; the car was produced for Lionel by Rivarossi in about 1958-59 during Lionel's first attempt at the HO market. This item had been a regular part of the Rivarossi/IHC/Aristo-Craft line in the early '50's. I am really pleased with the item, THANKS! Bruce - cwocnrr Click "respond" to reply through Messages, or go to your email to reply                     RARE VINTAGE HO ITALY RIVAROSSI MOBIL GAS PIGGYBACK TANK TRAILER FLAT CAR Item Id: 320778064659 End time: Oct-25-11 19:36:14 PDT Buyer: cwocnrr (3533) 100.0% Positive Feedback Member since Apr-12-00 in United States Location: OH, United States Buyer email address: bruce_knapp@... Listing Status: This message was sent while the listing was closed.                                     Marketplace Safety Tip Keep your money safe - never pay for items with cash or instant money transfer services, such as Western Union or MoneyGram. In the past some sellers have exploited these payment methods in order to defraud buyers, so eBay has banned them from the site. Received a Second Chance Offer email? Double check that it's genuine: Second Chance Offer emails come directly from eBay and are shown in your My Messages. Trade safely. Beware of anyone who contacts you about buying or selling outside of eBay. When you trade outside of eBay, you're not able to leave feedback or take advantage of protection programs and case resolution tools available on eBay. Report an inappropriate email. eBay helps guard your privacy and online safety when you use our messaging tools. If you and the member you're contacting haven't bought or sold from each other recently, our tools may make both of your email addresses anonymous. Email reference id: [#a10-je8hpqsjba#]_[#e45c1650a48c4924a745117cee576cb5#] Please don't remove this number. eBay customer support may ask you for this number, if you should need assistance. Learn More to protect yourself from spoof (fake) emails. Another eBay member sent this email to a69mustang4me@... through the eBay platform. eBay takes no liability for the sending of this email or its content. Visit our Privacy Policy and User Agreement if you have any questions. You can report this message as unsolicited (spam/spoof) email. Copyright © 2011 eBay Inc. All Rights Reserved. Designated trademarks and brands are the property of their respective owners. eBay and the eBay logo are trademarks of eBay Inc. eBay Inc. is located at 2145 Hamilton Avenue, San Jose, CA 95125.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17592	From: Nelson	Date: 10/31/2011
Subject: Re: brass drivers

Yep... by running them. I've never had a problem with brass wheels oxidizing, unless I've come across equipment that's been sitting in storage in a damp basement for years, and those polish up well with a Kadee brush. The only pickup issue I've had is when they pick up track dirt, but I haven't found them to be dirt magnets any more than NS wheels. In fact, some of my locos have wheels with the NS plating worn away exposing the brass, and they still run fine. Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "mermaidnc" <mermaidnc@...> wrote: > > my first steam loco in the 1960s was a Revell 0-6-0t with brass drivers. track was bras snap track. of course, oxide on the rail and drivers made for poor running. i now use nickel silver rail. I still have some MDC Roundhouse loco kits, which I haven't built; they are from the 80's, and have brass drivers. I thought of using something like No-Ox, or a blackening chemical, but assume anything short of electroplating would wear off fairly soon. has anyone had any success in keeping brass drivers from oxidizing? > > geo >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17593	From: trainm7	Date: 11/1/2011
Subject: Re: brass drivers

I have a large fleet of Hobbytown drives most of them have brass wheels. Only in the later years of Hobbytown did they change to nickel silver. I have had to clean units that were in storage but once they are cleaned if they are run on a regular basis they don`t cause problems. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "mermaidnc" <mermaidnc@...> wrote: > > my first steam loco in the 1960s was a Revell 0-6-0t with brass drivers. track was bras snap track. of course, oxide on the rail and drivers made for poor running. i now use nickel silver rail. I still have some MDC Roundhouse loco kits, which I haven't built; they are from the 80's, and have brass drivers. I thought of using something like No-Ox, or a blackening chemical, but assume anything short of electroplating would wear off fairly soon. has anyone had any success in keeping brass drivers from oxidizing? > > geo >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17594	From: trainm7	Date: 11/1/2011
Subject: Re: Some help needed

I have done as Vic has suggested with these cars. .If you glue some styrene even scrap sprue pieces just make sure you let the glue set up for a few days before you drill, if you don`t you may find the plastic has not hardened . Body mount the Kadee couplers and put good quality trucks with metal wheels. I always liked their PS-1 box cars as well as their 47 foot ? PS covered hoppers. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> wrote: > > > You might find some on eBay. If these cars were mine, I would glue in a short length of styrene rod or tube with a snug fit and after it dried, I would then drill and tap for 2-56 and use a 2-56 screw. I also would throw away the original "Talgo" trucks and those horrible "pizza cutter" wheels, and use something better, like Kadee trucks, or if I didn't want to spend that much, I would use Tichy, Accurail, or P2K trucks, with METAL wheels. I would also mount Kadee couplers to the body. I do like AHM/Rivarrosi cars, because they have unique paint jobs and decent detail and you can get a lot of them cheap. > > Vic Bitleris > Raleigh, NC > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > From: bayerw2@... > Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2011 14:21:21 +0000 > Subject: [vintageHO] Some help needed > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A friend of mine wrote and asked for help. I told him I would ask around. He wrote, "I have several HO cars, believe to be AHM/Riverosi that use a plastic rivet to secure the HO truck to the chassis. Alas, I have none. Need about twelve. Do you have a source?" > > Walter >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17595	From: corlissbs@aol.com	Date: 11/1/2011
Subject: Re: brass drivers

The plating wears off the brass wheels anyway and you are back to brass.  I have had no problem with brass wheels on nickel silver track, if you run regularly.  The problem arose with the old brass track and the brass wheels.  The combination of oxidation on the track that transferred to the wheels.   Brad Smith Franklin, WI

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17596	From: Geo Stahlberg	Date: 11/1/2011
Subject: Re: brass drivers

thanks for all the input.  i guess it's worth building the MDC kits after all!   geo From: "corlissbs@..." <corlissbs@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 1, 2011 10:09 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: brass drivers   The plating wears off the brass wheels anyway and you are back to brass.  I have had no problem with brass wheels on nickel silver track, if you run regularly.  The problem arose with the old brass track and the brass wheels.  The combination of oxidation on the track that transferred to the wheels.   Brad Smith Franklin, WI

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17597	From: bluenosedviking	Date: 11/1/2011
Subject: Re: brass drivers

I've been following this discussion with interest. I have a couple of half century old Athearn P4 Pacifics with driving wheel pickup problems. I polished the wheel treads until they gleamed, replaced the Athearn motors with hard wired can motors and yet stalling and sputtering recurred after a short while. Then I gently raised the wheel bearings off the journals and found the problem - dirt blocking current flow from wheel to frame. I cleaned the journals and bearings and it's now a pleasure watching the beautiful old clunkers glide through my less than perfect trackage. Kurt --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Geo Stahlberg <mermaidnc@...> wrote: > > thanks for all the input.  i guess it's worth building the MDC kits after all! >   > geo > > > ________________________________ > From: "corlissbs@..." <corlissbs@...> > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, November 1, 2011 10:09 AM > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: brass drivers > > >   > The plating wears off the brass wheels anyway and you are back to brass.  I have had no problem with brass wheels on nickel silver track, if you run regularly.  The problem arose with the old brass track and the brass wheels.  The combination of oxidation on the track that transferred to the wheels. > > Brad Smith > Franklin, WI >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17598	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 11/1/2011
Subject: OFF TOPIC Just in case anyone was interested in seeing what I loooke

Attachments : mes.jpg This was me as of this past weekend: When I took my kids out last night for Trick - or - Treat'n, none of my neighbors recognized me.   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!

@@attachment@@

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17599	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 11/1/2011
Subject: Re: OFF TOPIC Just in case anyone was interested in seeing what I lo

You don't want to see what I looked like. Don ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sean Naylor" <a69mustang4me@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>; <yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2011 4:08 PM Subject: [vintageHO] OFF TOPIC Just in case anyone was interested in seeing what I loooked like this Halloween [1 Attachment] This was me as of this past weekend: When I took my kids out last night for Trick - or - Treat'n, none of my neighbors recognized me. Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17600	From: Chris B	Date: 11/1/2011
Subject: Re: OFF TOPIC Just in case anyone was interested in seeing what I lo

Sean, is it really off-topic to show off  a costume portraying a vintage Mantua clearance car? From: Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com; yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 1, 2011 6:57 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] OFF TOPIC Just in case anyone was interested in seeing what I loooked like this Halloween   You don't want to see what I looked like. Don ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sean Naylor" <a69mustang4me@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>; <yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2011 4:08 PM Subject: [vintageHO] OFF TOPIC Just in case anyone was interested in seeing what I loooked like this Halloween [1 Attachment] This was me as of this past weekend: When I took my kids out last night for Trick - or - Treat'n, none of my neighbors recognized me. Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17601	From: boxcar4willhe	Date: 11/1/2011
Subject: armature repair question

Hi All, I have a new old diesel that does not run. When I tried to run it one of he brush springs got hot and started to glow. I can see that there is a break in the enameled wire on the armature. Is it possible to repair this in any way. I hesitate to mention that this is a Marx F unit as I suspect that Marx my be looked down on here. Not sure but this is a repair question not a collector question. As I am new to the group and have modeled as a lone wolf for so long, perhaps someone could comment on what is customary in the hobby when it comes to repairing H0 engines. Is it done or do you swap out motors or complete chassis etc.? Thanks. Lon Walker

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17602	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 11/1/2011
Subject: Re: armature repair question

Hi Lon, I might have a old Marx motor you are welcome to, if I have one. Can you post a picture of yours so I can compare with what I have?  Since i am modeler first, then a collector, i have no problems swapping parts with original used or unused parts.   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: boxcar4willhe <wlon17@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 1, 2011 10:44 PM Subject: [vintageHO] armature repair question   Hi All, I have a new old diesel that does not run. When I tried to run it one of he brush springs got hot and started to glow. I can see that there is a break in the enameled wire on the armature. Is it possible to repair this in any way. I hesitate to mention that this is a Marx F unit as I suspect that Marx my be looked down on here. Not sure but this is a repair question not a collector question. As I am new to the group and have modeled as a lone wolf for so long, perhaps someone could comment on what is customary in the hobby when it comes to repairing H0 engines. Is it done or do you swap out motors or complete chassis etc.? Thanks. Lon Walker

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17603	From: boxcar4willhe	Date: 11/1/2011
Subject: Re: armature repair question

Hi Sean I created a photo album, Walker Lon's trains, and posted three pictures of the chassis and motor. Check them out. Thanks. Lon Walker --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > Hi Lon, > > I might have a old Marx motor you are welcome to, if I have one. Can you post a picture of yours so I can compare with what I have?  Since i am modeler first, then a collector, i have no problems swapping parts with original used or unused parts. > >   > Sean > > > "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! > > > ________________________________ > From: boxcar4willhe <wlon17@...> > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, November 1, 2011 10:44 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] armature repair question > > >   > Hi All, I have a new old diesel that does not run. When I tried to run it one of he brush springs got hot and started to glow. I can see that there is a break in the enameled wire on the armature. Is it possible to repair this in any way. I hesitate to mention that this is a Marx F unit as I suspect that Marx my be looked down on here. Not sure but this is a repair question not a collector question. As I am new to the group and have modeled as a lone wolf for so long, perhaps someone could comment on what is customary in the hobby when it comes to repairing H0 engines. Is it done or do you swap out motors or complete chassis etc.? Thanks. Lon Walker >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17604	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 11/2/2011
Subject: Re: armature repair question

I think I can help you out Lon, I really like your choice in roadnames Ron. Just picked up this brass flanger myself tonight: Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: boxcar4willhe <wlon17@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, November 2, 2011 12:08 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: armature repair question   Hi Sean I created a photo album, Walker Lon's trains, and posted three pictures of the chassis and motor. Check them out. Thanks. Lon Walker --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > Hi Lon, > > I might have a old Marx motor you are welcome to, if I have one. Can you post a picture of yours so I can compare with what I have?  Since i am modeler first, then a collector, i have no problems swapping parts with original used or unused parts. > >   > Sean > > > "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! > > > ________________________________ > From: boxcar4willhe <wlon17@...> > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, November 1, 2011 10:44 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] armature repair question > > >   > Hi All, I have a new old diesel that does not run. When I tried to run it one of he brush springs got hot and started to glow. I can see that there is a break in the enameled wire on the armature. Is it possible to repair this in any way. I hesitate to mention that this is a Marx F unit as I suspect that Marx my be looked down on here. Not sure but this is a repair question not a collector question. As I am new to the group and have modeled as a lone wolf for so long, perhaps someone could comment on what is customary in the hobby when it comes to repairing H0 engines. Is it done or do you swap out motors or complete chassis etc.? Thanks. Lon Walker >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17605	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 11/2/2011
Subject: Re: brass drivers

I have Hobbytown locos also and like them.  I do not care for the brass wheels, but they are not the problem why these things need a nudge if they sit for longer than a day or so.  The problem is the very poor electrical path from the wheels, through  the truck frames, to the frame bolsters and then finally to the motor.  The zamac oxidizes fairly quickly and provides an insulation where the zamac parts touch each other.  Even withe regular movement and use they will oxidize.  So, in order to circumvent this problem, I made wipers and wired directly, in my case, to a DCC decoder rather than a motor.  But, directly to the motor would work also.  Here is a photo of what I did. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/repowerandregear/photos/album/994076249/pic/1585142546/view?picmode=large&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&dir=asc I learned about this problem first hand many years ago with a Mantua Pacific tender and the problems I had with that. Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: RAILRON1@... Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 13:01:29 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Re: brass drivers   I have a large fleet of Hobbytown drives most of them have brass wheels. Only in the later years of Hobbytown did they change to nickel silver. I have had to clean units that were in storage but once they are cleaned if they are run on a regular basis they don`t cause problems. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "mermaidnc" <mermaidnc@...> wrote: > > my first steam loco in the 1960s was a Revell 0-6-0t with brass drivers. track was bras snap track. of course, oxide on the rail and drivers made for poor running. i now use nickel silver rail. I still have some MDC Roundhouse loco kits, which I haven't built; they are from the 80's, and have brass drivers. I thought of using something like No-Ox, or a blackening chemical, but assume anything short of electroplating would wear off fairly soon. has anyone had any success in keeping brass drivers from oxidizing? > > geo >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17606	From: bluenosedviking	Date: 11/2/2011
Subject: Re: brass drivers

I think that's a great strategy, and indeed I have used it on tenders. The only problem with it is that it may add to drag. So, if you can't fix the current collection problem by cleaning bearings, by all means add current collection wipers. Kurt --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> wrote: > > > I have Hobbytown locos also and like them. I do not care for the brass wheels, but they are not the problem why these things need a nudge if they sit for longer than a day or so. The problem is the very poor electrical path from the wheels, through the truck frames, to the frame bolsters and then finally to the motor. The zamac oxidizes fairly quickly and provides an insulation where the zamac parts touch each other. Even withe regular movement and use they will oxidize. So, in order to circumvent this problem, I made wipers and wired directly, in my case, to a DCC decoder rather than a motor. But, directly to the motor would work also. Here is a photo of what I did. > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/repowerandregear/photos/album/994076249/pic/1585142546/view?picmode=large&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&dir=asc > I learned about this problem first hand many years ago with a Mantua Pacific tender and the problems I had with that. > Regards, > Vic Bitleris > Raleigh, NC > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > From: RAILRON1@... > Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 13:01:29 +0000 > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: brass drivers > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have a large fleet of Hobbytown drives most of them have brass wheels. Only in the later years of Hobbytown did they change to nickel silver. I have had to clean units that were in storage but once they are cleaned if they are run on a regular basis they don`t cause problems. > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "mermaidnc" <mermaidnc@> wrote: > > > > > > my first steam loco in the 1960s was a Revell 0-6-0t with brass drivers. track was bras snap track. of course, oxide on the rail and drivers made for poor running. i now use nickel silver rail. I still have some MDC Roundhouse loco kits, which I haven't built; they are from the 80's, and have brass drivers. I thought of using something like No-Ox, or a blackening chemical, but assume anything short of electroplating would wear off fairly soon. has anyone had any success in keeping brass drivers from oxidizing? > > > > > > geo > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17607	From: Chris B	Date: 11/2/2011
Subject: Re: brass drivers

I also have hobbytown drlves that benefit from Tomar wlpers Chris B. From: Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...>; To: <vintageho@yahoogroups.com>; Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: brass drivers Sent: Wed, Nov 2, 2011 2:30:49 PM   I have Hobbytown locos also and like them.  I do not care for the brass wheels, but they are not the problem why these things need a nudge if they sit for longer than a day or so.  The problem is the very poor electrical path from the wheels, through  the truck frames, to the frame bolsters and then finally to the motor.  The zamac oxidizes fairly quickly and provides an insulation where the zamac parts touch each other.  Even withe regular movement and use they will oxidize.  So, in order to circumvent this problem, I made wipers and wired directly, in my case, to a DCC decoder rather than a motor.  But, directly to the motor would work also.  Here is a photo of what I did. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/repowerandregear/photos/album/994076249/pic/1585142546/view?picmode=large&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&dir=asc I learned about this problem first hand many years ago with a Mantua Pacific tender and the problems I had with that. Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: RAILRON1@... Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 13:01:29 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Re: brass drivers   I have a large fleet of Hobbytown drives most of them have brass wheels. Only in the later years of Hobbytown did they change to nickel silver. I have had to clean units that were in storage but once they are cleaned if they are run on a regular basis they don`t cause problems. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "mermaidnc" <mermaidnc@...> wrote: > > my first steam loco in the 1960s was a Revell 0-6-0t with brass drivers. track was bras snap track. of course, oxide on the rail and drivers made for poor running. i now use nickel silver rail. I still have some MDC Roundhouse loco kits, which I haven't built; they are from the 80's, and have brass drivers. I thought of using something like No-Ox, or a blackening chemical, but assume anything short of electroplating would wear off fairly soon. has anyone had any success in keeping brass drivers from oxidizing? > > geo >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17608	From: Mike	Date: 11/2/2011
Subject: Re: brass drivers

Guys, As long as you do not treat all conductive surfaces, other than the driver tires, with an electronic grease or electronic contact fluid........ Then expect to always have a conductivity problem. Correct that oversight and your units will operate like brand new Kato high tech units for several months....... Then repeat the treatment. Mike Bauers --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "bluenosedviking" <bluenosedviking@...> wrote: > > > > > I think that's a great strategy, and indeed I have used it on tenders. The only problem with it is that it may add to drag. So, if you can't fix the current collection problem by cleaning bearings, by all means add current collection wipers. > > Kurt > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@> wrote: > > > > > > I have Hobbytown locos also and like them. I do not care for the brass wheels, but they are not the problem why these things need a nudge if they sit for longer than a day or so. The problem is the very poor electrical path from the wheels, through the truck frames, to the frame bolsters and then finally to the motor. The zamac oxidizes fairly quickly and provides an insulation where the zamac parts touch each other. Even withe regular movement and use they will oxidize. So, in order to circumvent this problem, I made wipers and wired directly, in my case, to a DCC decoder rather than a motor. But, directly to the motor would work also. Here is a photo of what I did. > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/repowerandregear/photos/album/994076249/pic/1585142546/view?picmode=large&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&dir=asc > > I learned about this problem first hand many years ago with a Mantua Pacific tender and the problems I had with that. > > Regards, > > Vic Bitleris > > Raleigh, NC > > > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > From: RAILRON1@ > > Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 13:01:29 +0000 > > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: brass drivers > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have a large fleet of Hobbytown drives most of them have brass wheels. Only in the later years of Hobbytown did they change to nickel silver. I have had to clean units that were in storage but once they are cleaned if they are run on a regular basis they don`t cause problems. > > > > > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "mermaidnc" <mermaidnc@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > my first steam loco in the 1960s was a Revell 0-6-0t with brass drivers. track was bras snap track. of course, oxide on the rail and drivers made for poor running. i now use nickel silver rail. I still have some MDC Roundhouse loco kits, which I haven't built; they are from the 80's, and have brass drivers. I thought of using something like No-Ox, or a blackening chemical, but assume anything short of electroplating would wear off fairly soon. has anyone had any success in keeping brass drivers from oxidizing? > > > > > > > > > > geo > > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17609	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 11/2/2011
Subject: Re: OFF TOPIC Just in case anyone was interested in seeing what I lo

Took me a second, but that was pretty clever Chris!   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: Chris B <chrisb_acw_rr@...> To: "vintageHO@yahoogroups.com" <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, November 1, 2011 7:15 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] OFF TOPIC Just in case anyone was interested in seeing what I loooked like this Halloween   Sean, is it really off-topic to show off  a costume portraying a vintage Mantua clearance car? From: Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com; yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 1, 2011 6:57 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] OFF TOPIC Just in case anyone was interested in seeing what I loooked like this Halloween   You don't want to see what I looked like. Don ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sean Naylor" <a69mustang4me@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>; <yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2011 4:08 PM Subject: [vintageHO] OFF TOPIC Just in case anyone was interested in seeing what I loooked like this Halloween [1 Attachment] This was me as of this past weekend: When I took my kids out last night for Trick - or - Treat'n, none of my neighbors recognized me. Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17610	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 11/2/2011
Subject: Re: OFF TOPIC Just in case anyone was interested in seeing what I lo

Couldn't be any worse Don, I am sure of that.   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com; yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 1, 2011 6:57 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] OFF TOPIC Just in case anyone was interested in seeing what I loooked like this Halloween   You don't want to see what I looked like. Don ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sean Naylor" <a69mustang4me@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com>; <yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2011 4:08 PM Subject: [vintageHO] OFF TOPIC Just in case anyone was interested in seeing what I loooked like this Halloween [1 Attachment] This was me as of this past weekend: When I took my kids out last night for Trick - or - Treat'n, none of my neighbors recognized me. Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17611	From: trainm7	Date: 11/2/2011
Subject: Re: brass drivers

There are a couple of other things I do to Hobbytowns. Run a direct feed from both trucks to the motor brushes and clean and relube the wheel bearings with CRC CR-26 conducting lube.Also on the units with open frame motors clean the commutator surfaces and a drop of CRC 2-26. This helps then run a little quieter and better pickup. I do like the Idea of wipers I may try it. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Chris B <chrisb_acw_rr@...> wrote: > > I also have hobbytown drlves that benefit from Tomar wlpers > > Chris B. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17612	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 11/2/2011
Subject: Re: brass drivers

I agree that you need to be careful on tenders and make sure they do not drag too much.  But, remember that Hobbytown locos will pull the bumper off of a 1956 Chevy, so I doubt that the drag on .012 phosphor bronze wire would slow down a Hobbytown loco to any noticeable degree at all. Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: bluenosedviking@... Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2011 15:53:07 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Re: brass drivers   I think that's a great strategy, and indeed I have used it on tenders. The only problem with it is that it may add to drag. So, if you can't fix the current collection problem by cleaning bearings, by all means add current collection wipers. Kurt --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> wrote: > > > I have Hobbytown locos also and like them. I do not care for the brass wheels, but they are not the problem why these things need a nudge if they sit for longer than a day or so. The problem is the very poor electrical path from the wheels, through the truck frames, to the frame bolsters and then finally to the motor. The zamac oxidizes fairly quickly and provides an insulation where the zamac parts touch each other. Even withe regular movement and use they will oxidize. So, in order to circumvent this problem, I made wipers and wired directly, in my case, to a DCC decoder rather than a motor. But, directly to the motor would work also. Here is a photo of what I did. > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/repowerandregear/photos/album/994076249/pic/1585142546/view?picmode=large&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&dir=asc > I learned about this problem first hand many years ago with a Mantua Pacific tender and the problems I had with that. > Regards, > Vic Bitleris > Raleigh, NC > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > From: RAILRON1@... > Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 13:01:29 +0000 > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: brass drivers > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have a large fleet of Hobbytown drives most of them have brass wheels. Only in the later years of Hobbytown did they change to nickel silver. I have had to clean units that were in storage but once they are cleaned if they are run on a regular basis they don`t cause problems. > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "mermaidnc" <mermaidnc@> wrote: > > > > > > my first steam loco in the 1960s was a Revell 0-6-0t with brass drivers. track was bras snap track. of course, oxide on the rail and drivers made for poor running. i now use nickel silver rail. I still have some MDC Roundhouse loco kits, which I haven't built; they are from the 80's, and have brass drivers. I thought of using something like No-Ox, or a blackening chemical, but assume anything short of electroplating would wear off fairly soon. has anyone had any success in keeping brass drivers from oxidizing? > > > > > > geo > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17613	From: boxcar4willhe	Date: 11/2/2011
Subject: Re: armature repair question

Sean, I posted two more pictures of New Haven trains under Walker,Lon's trains in the Photos section. . Lon Walker --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > I think I can help you out Lon, > > I really like your choice in roadnames Ron. > > Just picked up this brass flanger myself tonight: > > > > > Sean > > "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! > > > ________________________________ > From: boxcar4willhe <wlon17@...> > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wednesday, November 2, 2011 12:08 AM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: armature repair question > > >   > > > Hi Sean I created a photo album, Walker Lon's trains, and posted three pictures of the chassis and motor. Check them out. Thanks. Lon Walker > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@> wrote: > > > > Hi Lon, > > > > I might have a old Marx motor you are welcome to, if I have one. Can you post a picture of yours so I can compare with what I have?  Since i am modeler first, then a collector, i have no problems swapping parts with original used or unused parts. > > > >   > > Sean > > > > > > "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: boxcar4willhe <wlon17@> > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Tuesday, November 1, 2011 10:44 PM > > Subject: [vintageHO] armature repair question > > > > > >   > > Hi All, I have a new old diesel that does not run. When I tried to run it one of he brush springs got hot and started to glow. I can see that there is a break in the enameled wire on the armature. Is it possible to repair this in any way. I hesitate to mention that this is a Marx F unit as I suspect that Marx my be looked down on here. Not sure but this is a repair question not a collector question. As I am new to the group and have modeled as a lone wolf for so long, perhaps someone could comment on what is customary in the hobby when it comes to repairing H0 engines. Is it done or do you swap out motors or complete chassis etc.? Thanks. Lon Walker > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17614	From: Nelson	Date: 11/3/2011
Subject: Re: armature repair question

Lon, If you're comfortable doing fine soldering, you can solder a piece of fine gauge wire to the broken end of the winding, then solder it to the commutator where it used to terminate. The windings don't look burned, so something may have simply hit the wire and snapped it. If the brush spring is heating up, then the insulator on the spring must have a hole in it, causing a direct short. Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "boxcar4willhe" <wlon17@...> wrote: > > Hi All, I have a new old diesel that does not run. When I tried to run it one of he brush springs got hot and started to glow. I can see that there is a break in the enameled wire on the armature. Is it possible to repair this in any way. I hesitate to mention that this is a Marx F unit as I suspect that Marx my be looked down on here. Not sure but this is a repair question not a collector question. As I am new to the group and have modeled as a lone wolf for so long, perhaps someone could comment on what is customary in the hobby when it comes to repairing H0 engines. Is it done or do you swap out motors or complete chassis etc.? Thanks. Lon Walker >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17615	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 11/3/2011
Subject: Re: armature repair question

Hi Lon, Back in 1984, when I was 14, I purchased a train set at a house auction. By the time we arrived, the trains had already been sold to someone. I saw it and reacted in disgust. My father promptly leaned over and gestured as he suggested I offer the person walking past me $20 for the set. Without hesitation, I did so and the person said yes. I do not remember anything else about the auction, because I spent the rest of it gazing at my very first train set. It was a (almost complete and perfect) Marx set. It was missing the flat car load and the engines looked identical to yours. As we were driving home, I began to take the pieces out of the insert and set them on the seat beside me. Strangely, after having all the pieces out, the box still felt heavy. I lifted the insert to find an additional nearly vintage set of Athearn "Snow Bird" New haven F7  A-B diesels. That was a joyous day for me. I ended up selling the Marx set to someone that had an ad placed in the back of a Model Railroader Magazine for $50. I described the set over the phone to the gent as best as I could and he made me the offer. I asked my Dad and he said take it. My first HO train sale. Been collecting New Haven equipment ever since.  I recently stashed away most of my collection because this fall, we added a second floor to our house. Most of the last stuff I took to the storage unit was my New Haven collection. I added a new picture to my collection favorites folder here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/album/905707487/pic/1646667664/view?picmode=original&mode=tn&order=mtime&start=1&dir=desc I labeled the photo with the bin descriptions where it was obvious to me what was in them. As you will see, I have since collected a few New haven pieces. I also added Four more pictures of some more New haven Locomotives I have. I am a bit OCD I suppose.   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: boxcar4willhe <wlon17@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, November 3, 2011 12:15 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: armature repair question   Sean, I posted two more pictures of New Haven trains under Walker,Lon's trains in the Photos section. . Lon Walker --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > I think I can help you out Lon, > > I really like your choice in roadnames Ron. > > Just picked up this brass flanger myself tonight: > > > > > Sean > > "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! > > > ________________________________ > From: boxcar4willhe <wlon17@...> > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wednesday, November 2, 2011 12:08 AM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: armature repair question > > >   > > > Hi Sean I created a photo album, Walker Lon's trains, and posted three pictures of the chassis and motor. Check them out. Thanks. Lon Walker > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@> wrote: > > > > Hi Lon, > > > > I might have a old Marx motor you are welcome to, if I have one. Can you post a picture of yours so I can compare with what I have?  Since i am modeler first, then a collector, i have no problems swapping parts with original used or unused parts. > > > >   > > Sean > > > > > > "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: boxcar4willhe <wlon17@> > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Tuesday, November 1, 2011 10:44 PM > > Subject: [vintageHO] armature repair question > > > > > >   > > Hi All, I have a new old diesel that does not run. When I tried to run it one of he brush springs got hot and started to glow. I can see that there is a break in the enameled wire on the armature. Is it possible to repair this in any way. I hesitate to mention that this is a Marx F unit as I suspect that Marx my be looked down on here. Not sure but this is a repair question not a collector question. As I am new to the group and have modeled as a lone wolf for so long, perhaps someone could comment on what is customary in the hobby when it comes to repairing H0 engines. Is it done or do you swap out motors or complete chassis etc.? Thanks. Lon Walker > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17616	From: PaulP	Date: 11/3/2011
Subject: 4-4-0 Old time Tender wheels

Hello all. I could use a little help so please excuse the multiple postings. You can never tell who might have this item in their scrap box. I am scratch-building some New York Railways Green Line Trolley cars that were equipped with the Brill Maximum Traction Truck. This is a truck that has two different size wheels. The larger wheel is the driving wheel and is usually either 30 or 33 inches in diameter. The smaller one is freewheeling and is 20-21 inches in diameter (0.250- quarter inch in HO scale). The large wheel set is easy enough to find. The small wheels are my problem. I can't find them in standard HO gage. The small wheel set turns out to be a perfect match to the tender wheels on the Bachmann or AHM tender drive 4-4-0. I need the kind with the pointed axle ends. The old Mantua General 4-4-0 uses a larger diameter tender wheel. Does anyone have any operating or better junk 4-4-0's with tenders with the 0.250 inch tender wheels that I could buy to get sets for the trolley wheels? Since the trolley trucks only use two wheel sets per car, two or three tender trucks would keep me occupied for months. You can reach me at pfppackman@.... Thanks Paul P.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17617	From: dennyanspach	Date: 11/3/2011
Subject: Re: brass drivers

....relube the wheel bearings with CRC CR-26 conducting lube CRC-26  is a genuine industrial-grade conducting fluid (limited lubricating abilities) of considerable reputation among professionals in the electrical trades. I too have used it for coating contacts and wipers.   For some decades, it has also become the fluid of choice among many model railroad group  to coat the rails following track cleaning.  My own experience with the stuff matches that of others in this regard:  I only have to clean track about twice a year. And I agree that you need to be careful on tenders and make sure they do not drag too much. But, remember that Hobbytown locos will pull the bumper off of a 1956 Chevy, so I doubt that the drag on .012 phosphor bronze wire would slow down a Hobbytown loco to any noticeable degree at all. One of the reasons why the Hobbytown units will indeed pull up the track behind them should they drop anchor is because of the brass drive wheels.  The coefficient of friction between the brass of the wheel and the nickel silver of the railhead is very favorable, and much superior to the relatively low coefficient of friction between nickel or nickel silver (wheels) and the same nickel silver track. Where the former will dig in and pull, the latter will merely spin its wheels.  When the nickel plating wears off the treads of brass drive wheels, the locomotive will gain traction-  often turning an indifferent locomotive into one that actually then pulls like one.  Now, when the same brass wheels are gaining trackage on brass railheads, the COF gains even further strength.   Denny S.  Anspach MD Sacramento

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17618	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 11/4/2011
Subject: Vintage Paper/Wood Milwaukee Road Hiawatha?

All, I vaguely remember an old issue of Classic Toy Trains Magazine, that had a number of articles on the Milwaukee Road Hiawatha trains in tinplate. Somewhere in that issue, from the mid-late 1990s, there was a piece on an old prewar model of it in O and (I think) HO scale, made of paper and wood. I am wondering who did a paper and wood Hiawatha in the prewar days in HO Scale. Would absolutely love to find such a model. Lady friend of mine is from Milwaukee, and she is taking an interest in my Milwaukee Road rolling stock, and one of her frequent hangouts when younger, was a tavern in Sturtevant (Still an Amtrak Hiawatha stop), called the "Hiawatha". I am pretty sure it is named for the train that passed by it. I told her I was trying to find a vintage HO scale Hiawatha. If I know a make, I can probably find it. Would have to let her run it some time if I can get one! DISCLAIMER: As I have mentioned in the past, my memory is fuzzy on some of these things. I am trying to remember the article as well as I can. -Steve Neubaum

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17619	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 11/5/2011
Subject: Re: armature repair question

Hi Lon, I found and packed up in a box for shipping, a replacement motor and powered truck for your Marx New Haven F3 diesel. I need from you an address to mail this to. Please send me an email off-line. My email is a69mustang4me@... I will get this in the mail today if you reply before my postman gets here at ~3:00 pm. Thanks,   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: boxcar4willhe <wlon17@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, November 3, 2011 12:15 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: armature repair question   Sean, I posted two more pictures of New Haven trains under Walker,Lon's trains in the Photos section. . Lon Walker --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > I think I can help you out Lon, > > I really like your choice in roadnames Ron. > > Just picked up this brass flanger myself tonight: > > > > > Sean > > "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! > > > ________________________________ > From: boxcar4willhe <wlon17@...> > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wednesday, November 2, 2011 12:08 AM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: armature repair question > > >   > > > Hi Sean I created a photo album, Walker Lon's trains, and posted three pictures of the chassis and motor. Check them out. Thanks. Lon Walker > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@> wrote: > > > > Hi Lon, > > > > I might have a old Marx motor you are welcome to, if I have one. Can you post a picture of yours so I can compare with what I have?  Since i am modeler first, then a collector, i have no problems swapping parts with original used or unused parts. > > > >   > > Sean > > > > > > "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: boxcar4willhe <wlon17@> > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Tuesday, November 1, 2011 10:44 PM > > Subject: [vintageHO] armature repair question > > > > > >   > > Hi All, I have a new old diesel that does not run. When I tried to run it one of he brush springs got hot and started to glow. I can see that there is a break in the enameled wire on the armature. Is it possible to repair this in any way. I hesitate to mention that this is a Marx F unit as I suspect that Marx my be looked down on here. Not sure but this is a repair question not a collector question. As I am new to the group and have modeled as a lone wolf for so long, perhaps someone could comment on what is customary in the hobby when it comes to repairing H0 engines. Is it done or do you swap out motors or complete chassis etc.? Thanks. Lon Walker > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17620	From: dennyanspach	Date: 11/5/2011
Subject: Re: Vintage Paper/Wood Milwaukee Road Hiawatha?

I believe that what is being referred to is the 3/16" scale ("C-D gauge", later S gauge) balsa and paper Hiawatha cars and locomotive produced in the late thirties by Cleveland Model  & Supply Co., probably among the very first models to be ever produced in this scale.  The locomotive with tender was $0.85, and the cars were @$0.65.  As sold, they were good for display only, but motivated and skilled modelers at the time did fabricate trucks, etc. to actually make them useful and attractive operating models.  The only time I ever saw these models, kit form or completed, was when a fellow middle school student in Chicago in the '40s  showed me his father's a-building basement layout along a foundation ledge using HO scale rail but laid to 7/8" gauge, the only rolling stock that was on it being an incomplete Cleveland Hiawatha.  At the time, I thought it was sheer magic, and to this day, I continue to think that S scale is the ideal (although I never pursued it!). Denny    Denny S.  Anspach MD Sacramento

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17621	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 11/5/2011
Subject: Re: Vintage Paper/Wood Milwaukee Road Hiawatha?

Denny: YES! C-D models is what I was thinking of! This all sounds familiar now! So I take it now that a vintage HO scale Hiawatha might not exist? -Steve Neubaum --- On Sat, 11/5/11, dennyanspach <danspach@...> wrote: From: dennyanspach <danspach@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Vintage Paper/Wood Milwaukee Road Hiawatha? To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, November 5, 2011, 3:20 PM   I believe that what is being referred to is the 3/16" scale ("C-D gauge", later S gauge) balsa and paper Hiawatha cars and locomotive produced in the late thirties by Cleveland Model  & Supply Co., probably among the very first models to be ever produced in this scale.  The locomotive with tender was $0.85, and the cars were @$0.65.  As sold, they were good for display only, but motivated and skilled modelers at the time did fabricate trucks, etc. to actually make them useful and attractive operating models.  The only time I ever saw these models, kit form or completed, was when a fellow middle school student in Chicago in the '40s  showed me his father's a-building basement layout along a foundation ledge using HO scale rail but laid to 7/8" gauge, the only rolling stock that was on it being an incomplete Cleveland Hiawatha.  At the time, I thought it was sheer magic, and to this day, I continue to think that S scale is the ideal (although I never pursued it!). Denny    Denny S.  Anspach MD Sacramento

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17622	From: Gary Woodard	Date: 11/5/2011
Subject: Picked One Up Today

Attachments : DSC02684.JPG DSC02683.JPG DSC02682.JPG Hi Guys and Girls,   I picked up an engine at a yardsale today, it was in a deal with some other model train stuff, it appears to be an old Penn Line Pennsy 0-6-0, but I'm just not sure, the entire engine is diecast, the boiler and cab, and the tender shell as well, I hope yahoo doesn't mess up with the attachments this time!   I really would like to get it running, haven't tried to run it yet, as there is one loose wire, so will definitely have to look into it before I do anything, but just wondering who made it?     Gary W       Click HERE http://www.eeinternational.org/pages/page.asp?page_id=31469 to answer life's two most important questions!

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 17623	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 11/5/2011
Subject: Re: Picked One Up Today [3 Attachments]

Hi Gary, That is a Gilbert American Flyer locomotive. I may have a smokebox cover for it if you need one. Nice pick-up!   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: Gary Woodard <betsy662@...> To: "vintageHO@yahoogroups.com" <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, November 5, 2011 9:08 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Picked One Up Today [3 Attachments]   Hi Guys and Girls,   I picked up an engine at a yardsale today, it was in a deal with some other model train stuff, it appears to be an old Penn Line Pennsy 0-6-0, but I'm just not sure, the entire engine is diecast, the boiler and cab, and the tender shell as well, I hope yahoo doesn't mess up with the attachments this time!   I really would like to get it running, haven't tried to run it yet, as there is one loose wire, so will definitely have to look into it before I do anything, but just wondering who made it?     Gary W       Click HERE http://www.eeinternational.org/pages/page.asp?page_id=31469 to answer life's two most important questions!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17624	From: Glenn	Date: 11/5/2011
Subject: Re: Picked One Up Today [3 Attachments]

Looks like A.C.Gilbert.  (American Flyer HO) glenn joestenj   From: Gary Woodard Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2011 6:08 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Picked One Up Today [3 Attachments]   [Attachment(s) from Gary Woodard included below] Hi Guys and Girls,   I picked up an engine at a yardsale today, it was in a deal with some other model train stuff, it appears to be an old Penn Line Pennsy 0-6-0, but I'm just not sure, the entire engine is diecast, the boiler and cab, and the tender shell as well, I hope yahoo doesn't mess up with the attachments this time!   I really would like to get it running, haven't tried to run it yet, as there is one loose wire, so will definitely have to look into it before I do anything, but just wondering who made it?     Gary W       Click HERE http://www.eeinternational.org/pages/page.asp?page_id=31469 to answer life's two most important questions!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17625	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 11/5/2011
Subject: Re: Picked One Up Today [3 Attachments]

Gary, Maybe it's a Gilbert. See, "http://www.gilbertho.org/". Walter On Sat, Nov 5, 2011 at 9:08 PM, Gary Woodard <betsy662@...> wrote:   [Attachment(s) from Gary Woodard included below] Hi Guys and Girls,   I picked up an engine at a yardsale today, it was in a deal with some other model train stuff, it appears to be an old Penn Line Pennsy 0-6-0, but I'm just not sure, the entire engine is diecast, the boiler and cab, and the tender shell as well, I hope yahoo doesn't mess up with the attachments this time!   I really would like to get it running, haven't tried to run it yet, as there is one loose wire, so will definitely have to look into it before I do anything, but just wondering who made it?     Gary W

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17626	From: Gary Woodard	Date: 11/5/2011
Subject: Re: Picked One Up Today

Hi Glenn,   Appreciate that, there aren't any markings on the bottom of the engine like there would be with Varney or Penn Line, thats why I was wondering, there isn't any damage to it, its in surprisingly great shape, the only missing part is the smokebox front, I can only figure those are a little diffacult to come by!   Gary W       Click HERE http://www.eeinternational.org/pages/page.asp?page_id=31469 to answer life's two most important questions! From: Glenn <glenn476@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, November 5, 2011 9:49 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Picked One Up Today   Looks like A.C.Gilbert.  (American Flyer HO) glenn joestenj   From: Gary Woodard Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2011 6:08 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Picked One Up Today [3 Attachments]   [Attachment(s) from Gary Woodard included below] Hi Guys and Girls,   I picked up an engine at a yardsale today, it was in a deal with some other model train stuff, it appears to be an old Penn Line Pennsy 0-6-0, but I'm just not sure, the entire engine is diecast, the boiler and cab, and the tender shell as well, I hope yahoo doesn't mess up with the attachments this time!   I really would like to get it running, haven't tried to run it yet, as there is one loose wire, so will definitely have to look into it before I do anything, but just wondering who made it?     Gary W       Click HERE http://www.eeinternational.org/pages/page.asp?page_id=31469 to answer life's two most important questions!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17627	From: Gary Woodard	Date: 11/5/2011
Subject: Re: Picked One Up Today

Hi Sean,   Yes, it does need that smokebox cover, how much are you needing for it, and heres the real kicker, that engine was thrown in with the rest of the trains I bought, so essentially, I paid nothing for the engine itself!   Gary W     Click HERE http://www.eeinternational.org/pages/page.asp?page_id=31469 to answer life's two most important questions! From: Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> To: "vintageHO@yahoogroups.com" <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, November 5, 2011 9:40 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Picked One Up Today   Hi Gary, That is a Gilbert American Flyer locomotive. I may have a smokebox cover for it if you need one. Nice pick-up!   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: Gary Woodard <betsy662@...> To: "vintageHO@yahoogroups.com" <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, November 5, 2011 9:08 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Picked One Up Today [3 Attachments]   Hi Guys and Girls,   I picked up an engine at a yardsale today, it was in a deal with some other model train stuff, it appears to be an old Penn Line Pennsy 0-6-0, but I'm just not sure, the entire engine is diecast, the boiler and cab, and the tender shell as well, I hope yahoo doesn't mess up with the attachments this time!   I really would like to get it running, haven't tried to run it yet, as there is one loose wire, so will definitely have to look into it before I do anything, but just wondering who made it?     Gary W       Click HERE http://www.eeinternational.org/pages/page.asp?page_id=31469 to answer life's two most important questions!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17628	From: Gary Woodard	Date: 11/5/2011
Subject: Re: Picked One Up Today

Hi Walter, I believe it is, in fact I actually found the repair sheets for it on that website, interesting website, I noticed it seems to have a smoke unit in it alright, I don't know if it has the choo choo thing in it, I haven't taken it apart yet!   Gary W       Click HERE http://www.eeinternational.org/pages/page.asp?page_id=31469 to answer life's two most important questions! From: Walter Bayer II <bayerw2@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, November 5, 2011 11:31 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Picked One Up Today   Gary, Maybe it's a Gilbert. See, "http://www.gilbertho.org/". Walter On Sat, Nov 5, 2011 at 9:08 PM, Gary Woodard <betsy662@...> wrote:   [Attachment(s) from Gary Woodard included below] Hi Guys and Girls,   I picked up an engine at a yardsale today, it was in a deal with some other model train stuff, it appears to be an old Penn Line Pennsy 0-6-0, but I'm just not sure, the entire engine is diecast, the boiler and cab, and the tender shell as well, I hope yahoo doesn't mess up with the attachments this time!   I really would like to get it running, haven't tried to run it yet, as there is one loose wire, so will definitely have to look into it before I do anything, but just wondering who made it?     Gary W

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17629	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 11/6/2011
Subject: Re: Picked One Up Today

Gary, If you take it apart, the shell does not lift off, you have to slide it forward. The brass smoke stack lining has to come out first. Use a screw driver and un-screw it out before taking the shell off. I think I have one smokebox cover that is not painted, so you are welcome to it. I just need your address. Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: Gary Woodard <betsy662@...> To: "vintageHO@yahoogroups.com" <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, November 6, 2011 12:35 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Picked One Up Today   Hi Walter, I believe it is, in fact I actually found the repair sheets for it on that website, interesting website, I noticed it seems to have a smoke unit in it alright, I don't know if it has the choo choo thing in it, I haven't taken it apart yet!   Gary W       Click HERE http://www.eeinternational.org/pages/page.asp?page_id=31469 to answer life's two most important questions! From: Walter Bayer II <bayerw2@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, November 5, 2011 11:31 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Picked One Up Today   Gary, Maybe it's a Gilbert. See, "http://www.gilbertho.org/". Walter On Sat, Nov 5, 2011 at 9:08 PM, Gary Woodard <betsy662@...> wrote:   [Attachment(s) from Gary Woodard included below] Hi Guys and Girls,   I picked up an engine at a yardsale today, it was in a deal with some other model train stuff, it appears to be an old Penn Line Pennsy 0-6-0, but I'm just not sure, the entire engine is diecast, the boiler and cab, and the tender shell as well, I hope yahoo doesn't mess up with the attachments this time!   I really would like to get it running, haven't tried to run it yet, as there is one loose wire, so will definitely have to look into it before I do anything, but just wondering who made it?     Gary W

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17630	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 11/6/2011
Subject: Re: Picked One Up Today

Hi Gary, If it's like mine, it does have Gilbert's "choo-choo". Mine has a piston and cylinder inside that create the sound. On Sun, Nov 6, 2011 at 12:35 AM, Gary Woodard <betsy662@...> wrote:   Hi Walter, I believe it is, in fact I actually found the repair sheets for it on that website, interesting website, I noticed it seems to have a smoke unit in it alright, I don't know if it has the choo choo thing in it, I haven't taken it apart yet!   Gary W       Click HERE http://www.eeinternational.org/pages/page.asp?page_id=31469 to answer life's two most important questions! From: Walter Bayer II <bayerw2@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, November 5, 2011 11:31 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Picked One Up Today   Gary, Maybe it's a Gilbert. See, "http://www.gilbertho.org/". Walter On Sat, Nov 5, 2011 at 9:08 PM, Gary Woodard <betsy662@...> wrote:   [Attachment(s) from Gary Woodard included below] Hi Guys and Girls,   I picked up an engine at a yardsale today, it was in a deal with some other model train stuff, it appears to be an old Penn Line Pennsy 0-6-0, but I'm just not sure, the entire engine is diecast, the boiler and cab, and the tender shell as well, I hope yahoo doesn't mess up with the attachments this time!   I really would like to get it running, haven't tried to run it yet, as there is one loose wire, so will definitely have to look into it before I do anything, but just wondering who made it?     Gary W -- Regards, Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17631	From: DOM ST.JOHN	Date: 11/6/2011
Subject: Re: Picked One Up Today [3 Attachments]

It is definitely a Gilbert HO switcher. It should have a piston choo choo smoke unit in the boiler. The type of trucks on the tender will date it. If you picked it up with a number of other items, such as freight cars, you may well have some Gilbert HO in there also. Look for any car with either a 500 series 3 digit number or a 33500 5 digit series number. Those will be the Gilbert HO. Dom From: Gary Woodard <betsy662@...> To: "vintageHO@yahoogroups.com" <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sat, November 5, 2011 9:08:41 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Picked One Up Today [3 Attachments]   Hi Guys and Girls,   I picked up an engine at a yardsale today, it was in a deal with some other model train stuff, it appears to be an old Penn Line Pennsy 0-6-0, but I'm just not sure, the entire engine is diecast, the boiler and cab, and the tender shell as well, I hope yahoo doesn't mess up with the attachments this time!   I really would like to get it running, haven't tried to run it yet, as there is one loose wire, so will definitely have to look into it before I do anything, but just wondering who made it?     Gary W       Click HERE http://www.eeinternational.org/pages/page.asp?page_id=31469 to answer life's two most important questions!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17632	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 11/6/2011
Subject: Re: Picked One Up Today [3 Attachments]

Hi Gary,   You already have a lot of replys but here goes.    This is one of the later run AC Gilbert HO switchers, it does have the ChooChoo unit in it.  The ChooChoo is part of the smoke generator and soes not separate from it.  The packing gland in the ChooChoo tends to dry out over time so you may need to soften it.  To Remove the boil insert a small screwer into the smoke stack and remove the brass tube from the smoke unit, the use normal dis-assembly steps.    It is very common for the smokebox front to get lost on these locos and you can pick up a reproduction at most Lionel/American Flyer Train Shows.  The motor is an A C Gilbert design 3 pole and very robust.  It CAN be replaced with a newer design but it takes a little effort.  The motor drives the wheels and the ChooChoo simultaniously thru the use of a common drive gear that has a crank pin for the ChooChoo.  One puff of smoke and one Choo per revolution of the drive gear.  It is a close match to the drivers.    Weak spots are the boiler front and the tender pickup.  For tender pickup improvement I wind a length of copper wire taken from 12 gauge stranded auto accessory wire around each tender axle so that the axle revolves inside the wire and then solder the end of the wire to the pickup wiper.  This improves the pickup tremendously. Spray the wrapped tender axles + wire with CRC26 (a electrically conductive lubricant) for even better conduction.    The model can be detailed to make an even more impressive PRR switcher.  A high quality can motor will result in very smooth switcher action.  If you are quick about it you may still be able to get the detailing parts from Bowser. Jake Bechtel Gadsden, AL On Sat, Nov 5, 2011 at 8:08 PM, Gary Woodard <betsy662@...> wrote: [Attachment(s) from Gary Woodard included below] Hi Guys and Girls,   I picked up an engine at a yardsale today, it was in a deal with some other model train stuff, it appears to be an old Penn Line Pennsy 0-6-0, but I'm just not sure, the entire engine is diecast, the boiler and cab, and the tender shell as well, I hope yahoo doesn't mess up with the attachments this time!   I really would like to get it running, haven't tried to run it yet, as there is one loose wire, so will definitely have to look into it before I do anything, but just wondering who made it?     Gary W       Click HERE http://www.eeinternational.org/pages/page.asp?page_id=31469 to answer life's two most important questions! Attachment(s) from Gary Woodard 3 of 3 Photo(s) DSC02682.JPG DSC02683.JPG DSC02684.JPG

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17633	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 11/6/2011
Subject: Re: Picked One Up Today [3 Attachments]

Hi Gary,      These locos were available for separate sale or as part of a set. Somewhere I have advertising picture of all of the Flyer HO sets.  I think there were 3 cars and a caboose with an oval of track.  By todays standards the cars are very crude. Late run cars have a five digit car number and early run cars had a 3 digit number.  Early runs used couplers that do not mate to the NMRA horn hook but look similar although larger.  There were even a couple of runs with a coupler that could be remotely uncoupled.   The loco drivers had pressed on tires that came loose over time.  I have found that cleaning them with electronic contact cleaner and then using a drop of ACC is all that is needed to salvage them.    Although sparsely detailed this loco is one of the best performers of the early post-war era.  AC Gilbert also produced a NYC J3 model 4-6-4 using the same methods and mechanism with different motor.  I found one on our local club layout RIP track and cleaned and tuned it.  It ran beautifully.  At our club sponsored spring show last April it was the first item sold from the clubs sales table.  Don't know what it sold for, I left the price negotiation to the club elder who was present when it was new.    These locos sold in the $40 range in the early fifties, that was about 2 weeks earnings for a general laborer. Jake Bechtel Gadsden, AL On Sat, Nov 5, 2011 at 8:08 PM, Gary Woodard <betsy662@...> wrote: [Attachment(s) from Gary Woodard included below] Hi Guys and Girls,   I picked up an engine at a yardsale today,

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17634	From: Jim Waterman	Date: 11/6/2011
Subject: Re: Picked One Up Today

Gary You have an American Flyer HO PRR B-6. There are a fair number of these out there. With a little luck, you should be able to find a usable boiler front. Jim Waterman

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17635	From: dennyanspach	Date: 11/6/2011
Subject: Re: Vintage Paper/Wood Milwaukee Road Hiawatha?

Denny: YES! C-D models is what I was thinking of! This all sounds familiar now! So I take it now that a vintage HO scale Hiawatha might not exist? -Steve Neubaum To my knowledge, until the recent  plastic Chinese production of these Milwaukee 1934 cars for Fox River Valley, none have been produced for the broad HO scale market, and at @$64 per car, one would have to redefine "mass market".  Nickel Plate Products imported the proper HO  scale cars and their 4-4-2 car from the KMT Japanese model shop in the mid sixties, and they are all still around- sometimes at very reasonable prices. Overland imported Korean built brass models of these cars and locomotive in the '90s,  still earning premium prices when they become available.    Rivarossi made an early molded plastic model of the locomotive in the '50s, but the cars were European prototypes.   Probably the most well known early scale Hiawatha models were those produced in the 50s and 80s in wood and sheet metal by Walthers in ......O gauge.  The early Lionel O gauge model of the locomotive from the thirties is still a premium model: However, the Lionel cars were recycled cars from their UP diesel streamliner.  American Flyer did something similar. Denny Denny S.  Anspach MD Sacramento

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17636	From: Gary Woodard	Date: 11/6/2011
Subject: Re: Picked One Up Today

Hi Jake,   Thanks for the history, in looking at the repair diagram on that website, it appears that these engines were quite the technology in their day, the price tag of around $40 would have also been very expensive back then, when its almost nothing to go in and spend that just purchasing a couple of magazines and few detail parts in todays world, I will eventually go into it and see how everything works when I feel more confident about that, not that I have no mechanical ability, as I've brought old Rivarossi's back from the dead, have completely rebuilt old Bowsers and Penn Lines and even some old Mantua's, I've never seen one of these, so need to study it more before I tear into it, so as not to damage something!   Gary W     Click HERE http://www.eeinternational.org/pages/page.asp?page_id=31469 to answer life's two most important questions! From: Jacob Bechtel <jhbivusa@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 6, 2011 11:33 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Picked One Up Today   Hi Gary,      These locos were available for separate sale or as part of a set. Somewhere I have advertising picture of all of the Flyer HO sets.  I think there were 3 cars and a caboose with an oval of track.  By todays standards the cars are very crude. Late run cars have a five digit car number and early run cars had a 3 digit number.  Early runs used couplers that do not mate to the NMRA horn hook but look similar although larger.  There were even a couple of runs with a coupler that could be remotely uncoupled.   The loco drivers had pressed on tires that came loose over time.  I have found that cleaning them with electronic contact cleaner and then using a drop of ACC is all that is needed to salvage them.    Although sparsely detailed this loco is one of the best performers of the early post-war era.  AC Gilbert also produced a NYC J3 model 4-6-4 using the same methods and mechanism with different motor.  I found one on our local club layout RIP track and cleaned and tuned it.  It ran beautifully.  At our club sponsored spring show last April it was the first item sold from the clubs sales table.  Don't know what it sold for, I left the price negotiation to the club elder who was present when it was new.    These locos sold in the $40 range in the early fifties, that was about 2 weeks earnings for a general laborer. Jake Bechtel Gadsden, AL On Sat, Nov 5, 2011 at 8:08 PM, Gary Woodard <betsy662@...> wrote: [Attachment(s) from Gary Woodard included below] Hi Guys and Girls,   I picked up an engine at a yardsale today,

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17637	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 11/6/2011
Subject: Re: Picked One Up Today

Gary,   Actually, reproduction boiler fronts have been marketed at least since 1977.        Of more interest, look carefully at the model or builders exploded diagrams (HOseeker.com) - you will note that the DC motor used post war has a machined permanent magnet AND a skew wound armature.  This model is circa 1949 from A C Gilbert.      Definately ahead of the pack engineering wise. Jake Bechtel Gadsden, AL On Sun, Nov 6, 2011 at 1:14 PM, Jim Waterman <Watermaj@...> wrote: Gary You have an American Flyer HO PRR B-6. There are a fair number of these out there. With a little luck, you should be able to find a usable boiler front. Jim Waterman ------------------------------------

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17638	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 11/6/2011
Subject: Re: Picked One Up Today

Attachments : gilbert1956infopage11.jpg gilbert060HO433pg2.jpg gilbert060HO433pg1.jpg Dear Gary,   The AC Gilbert drawings on HOseeker.com are quite good.  I have never gotten one of these that I could not resurrect simply by cleaning them with CRC electronic cleaner (No. 05103) that I get from the auto parts store and then lubricating with LaBell oil and gear grease. I have never seen one with worn out brushes or bearings.   I do caution you not to disassemble the magnet.  It is round and I still don't know if it has to be oriented especially to get proper performance. If for any reason you do have to remove the magnet, be certain that you mark it carefully so that you can reinstall it exactly as it came out.    Take advantage of the offer from the fellow about the boiler front.    When AC Gilbert went under, Hobby Surplus Sales acquired the remaining parts and trains inventory while Lionel got all patents and production rights and tooling.  He may have a boiler front.    The attachments might help. On Sun, Nov 6, 2011 at 4:37 PM, Gary Woodard <betsy662@...> wrote: Hi Jake,   Thanks for the history, in looking at the repair diagram on that website, it appears that these engines were quite the technology in their day, the price tag of around $40 would have also been very expensive back then, when its almost nothing to go in and spend that just purchasing a couple of magazines and few detail parts in todays world, I will eventually go into it and see how everything works when I feel more confident about that, not that I have no mechanical ability, as I've brought old Rivarossi's back from the dead, have completely rebuilt old Bowsers and Penn Lines and even some old Mantua's, I've never seen one of these, so need to study it more before I tear into it, so as not to damage something!   Gary W

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 17639	From: Gary Woodard	Date: 11/6/2011
Subject: Re: Picked One Up Today

Thanks Dom,   The cars in the boxes were put into sets, they are either LL or Model Power, they all still have their original boxes, so there weren't any Gilbert cars there, the engine was thrown in to the mix by the seller, as it was set off as a separate piece to be sold, when I bought all the trains, he told me to take that engine with me as well, turns out that engine is probably the best deal I got in the whole deal!   Gary W       Click HERE http://www.eeinternational.org/pages/page.asp?page_id=31469 to answer life's two most important questions! From: DOM ST.JOHN <jsangiovanni@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 6, 2011 7:45 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Picked One Up Today   It is definitely a Gilbert HO switcher. It should have a piston choo choo smoke unit in the boiler. The type of trucks on the tender will date it. If you picked it up with a number of other items, such as freight cars, you may well have some Gilbert HO in there also. Look for any car with either a 500 series 3 digit number or a 33500 5 digit series number. Those will be the Gilbert HO. Dom From: Gary Woodard <betsy662@...> To: "vintageHO@yahoogroups.com" <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sat, November 5, 2011 9:08:41 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Picked One Up Today [3 Attachments]   Hi Guys and Girls,   I picked up an engine at a yardsale today, it was in a deal with some other model train stuff, it appears to be an old Penn Line Pennsy 0-6-0, but I'm just not sure, the entire engine is diecast, the boiler and cab, and the tender shell as well, I hope yahoo doesn't mess up with the attachments this time!   I really would like to get it running, haven't tried to run it yet, as there is one loose wire, so will definitely have to look into it before I do anything, but just wondering who made it?     Gary W       Click HERE http://www.eeinternational.org/pages/page.asp?page_id=31469 to answer life's two most important questions!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17640	From: DOM ST.JOHN	Date: 11/6/2011
Subject: Re: Picked One Up Today

Your welcome Gary, I've collected Gilbert HO for a long time now and I would agree, it may be the best of the bunch! As to the tender trucks. If they are solid and not sprung, your engine is from 60 to 63. Sprung tender trucks and cloth wire should mean 58. Plastic wire and sprung trucks would mean 59. Of course that's assuming it's not been altered. More often than not, they are found pretty much as they were made. Dom From: Gary Woodard <betsy662@...> To: "vintageHO@yahoogroups.com" <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sun, November 6, 2011 5:58:17 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Picked One Up Today   Thanks Dom,   The cars in the boxes were put into sets, they are either LL or Model Power, they all still have their original boxes, so there weren't any Gilbert cars there, the engine was thrown in to the mix by the seller, as it was set off as a separate piece to be sold, when I bought all the trains, he told me to take that engine with me as well, turns out that engine is probably the best deal I got in the whole deal!   Gary W       Click HERE http://www.eeinternational.org/pages/page.asp?page_id=31469 to answer life's two most important questions! From: DOM ST.JOHN <jsangiovanni@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 6, 2011 7:45 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Picked One Up Today   It is definitely a Gilbert HO switcher. It should have a piston choo choo smoke unit in the boiler. The type of trucks on the tender will date it. If you picked it up with a number of other items, such as freight cars, you may well have some Gilbert HO in there also. Look for any car with either a 500 series 3 digit number or a 33500 5 digit series number. Those will be the Gilbert HO. Dom From: Gary Woodard <betsy662@...> To: "vintageHO@yahoogroups.com" <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sat, November 5, 2011 9:08:41 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Picked One Up Today [3 Attachments]   Hi Guys and Girls,   I picked up an engine at a yardsale today, it was in a deal with some other model train stuff, it appears to be an old Penn Line Pennsy 0-6-0, but I'm just not sure, the entire engine is diecast, the boiler and cab, and the tender shell as well, I hope yahoo doesn't mess up with the attachments this time!   I really would like to get it running, haven't tried to run it yet, as there is one loose wire, so will definitely have to look into it before I do anything, but just wondering who made it?     Gary W       Click HERE http://www.eeinternational.org/pages/page.asp?page_id=31469 to answer life's two most important questions!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17641	From: Gary Woodard	Date: 11/6/2011
Subject: Re: Picked One Up Today

Hi Dom,   The trucks are solid castings, therefore I guess they are from the 60 to 63 period, it looks like someone had at least one of the trucks off, as the brass wheels are on the wrong side on one of the trucks!   Gary W     Click HERE http://www.eeinternational.org/pages/page.asp?page_id=31469 to answer life's two most important questions! From: DOM ST.JOHN <jsangiovanni@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 6, 2011 6:44 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Picked One Up Today   Your welcome Gary, I've collected Gilbert HO for a long time now and I would agree, it may be the best of the bunch! As to the tender trucks. If they are solid and not sprung, your engine is from 60 to 63. Sprung tender trucks and cloth wire should mean 58. Plastic wire and sprung trucks would mean 59. Of course that's assuming it's not been altered. More often than not, they are found pretty much as they were made. Dom From: Gary Woodard <betsy662@...> To: "vintageHO@yahoogroups.com" <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sun, November 6, 2011 5:58:17 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Picked One Up Today   Thanks Dom,   The cars in the boxes were put into sets, they are either LL or Model Power, they all still have their original boxes, so there weren't any Gilbert cars there, the engine was thrown in to the mix by the seller, as it was set off as a separate piece to be sold, when I bought all the trains, he told me to take that engine with me as well, turns out that engine is probably the best deal I got in the whole deal!   Gary W       Click HERE http://www.eeinternational.org/pages/page.asp?page_id=31469 to answer life's two most important questions! From: DOM ST.JOHN <jsangiovanni@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 6, 2011 7:45 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Picked One Up Today   It is definitely a Gilbert HO switcher. It should have a piston choo choo smoke unit in the boiler. The type of trucks on the tender will date it. If you picked it up with a number of other items, such as freight cars, you may well have some Gilbert HO in there also. Look for any car with either a 500 series 3 digit number or a 33500 5 digit series number. Those will be the Gilbert HO. Dom From: Gary Woodard <betsy662@...> To: "vintageHO@yahoogroups.com" <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sat, November 5, 2011 9:08:41 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Picked One Up Today [3 Attachments]   Hi Guys and Girls,   I picked up an engine at a yardsale today, it was in a deal with some other model train stuff, it appears to be an old Penn Line Pennsy 0-6-0, but I'm just not sure, the entire engine is diecast, the boiler and cab, and the tender shell as well, I hope yahoo doesn't mess up with the attachments this time!   I really would like to get it running, haven't tried to run it yet, as there is one loose wire, so will definitely have to look into it before I do anything, but just wondering who made it?     Gary W       Click HERE http://www.eeinternational.org/pages/page.asp?page_id=31469 to answer life's two most important questions!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17642	From: Nelson	Date: 11/6/2011
Subject: Re: Picked One Up Today

Gary, Don't remove the magnet from the field under any circumstances, or you'll lose the bulk of the magnetism. I suppose it's safe to remove the armature as long as you use a keeper across the pole pieces, but that would really only be necessary in the event of a bad armature. I took a few pictures of one I restored with rare earth magnets, but these are diametrically magnetized, which means the poles are along the edges like the original. The original magnet does have a line across one face to show how the poles are oriented, though N and S aren't marked. http://tinyurl.com/d8z25xz Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jacob Bechtel <jhbivusa@...> wrote: > > Dear Gary, > > The AC Gilbert drawings on HOseeker.com are quite good. I have never > gotten one of these that I could not resurrect simply by cleaning them with > CRC electronic cleaner (No. 05103) that I get from the auto parts store and > then lubricating with LaBell oil and gear grease. I have never seen one > with worn out brushes or bearings. > I do caution you not to disassemble the magnet. It is *round* and I > still don't know if it has to be oriented especially to get proper > performance. If for any reason you do have to remove the magnet, be certain > that you mark it carefully so that you can reinstall it exactly as it came > out. > Take advantage of the offer from the fellow about the boiler front. > When AC Gilbert went under, Hobby Surplus Sales acquired the remaining > parts and trains inventory while Lionel got all patents and production > rights and tooling. He may have a boiler front. > The attachments might help. > > On Sun, Nov 6, 2011 at 4:37 PM, Gary Woodard <betsy662@...> wrote:

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17643	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 11/6/2011
Subject: Re: Picked One Up Today

Mine is from '49 or '50, and the tender trucks are NOT sprung. The sideframes are solid castings. The couplers on mine are the Gilbert "automatic" couplers, used before the '51 to '54 hiatus. If yours has the so-called NMRA coupler, it is post hiatus. On Sun, Nov 6, 2011 at 8:42 PM, Gary Woodard <betsy662@...> wrote:   Hi Dom,   The trucks are solid castings, therefore I guess they are from the 60 to 63 period, it looks like someone had at least one of the trucks off, as the brass wheels are on the wrong side on one of the trucks!   Gary W     Click HERE http://www.eeinternational.org/pages/page.asp?page_id=31469 to answer life's two most important questions! From: DOM ST.JOHN <jsangiovanni@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 6, 2011 6:44 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Picked One Up Today   Your welcome Gary, I've collected Gilbert HO for a long time now and I would agree, it may be the best of the bunch! As to the tender trucks. If they are solid and not sprung, your engine is from 60 to 63. Sprung tender trucks and cloth wire should mean 58. Plastic wire and sprung trucks would mean 59. Of course that's assuming it's not been altered. More often than not, they are found pretty much as they were made. Dom From: Gary Woodard <betsy662@...> To: "vintageHO@yahoogroups.com" <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sun, November 6, 2011 5:58:17 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Picked One Up Today   Thanks Dom,   The cars in the boxes were put into sets, they are either LL or Model Power, they all still have their original boxes, so there weren't any Gilbert cars there, the engine was thrown in to the mix by the seller, as it was set off as a separate piece to be sold, when I bought all the trains, he told me to take that engine with me as well, turns out that engine is probably the best deal I got in the whole deal!   Gary W       Click HERE http://www.eeinternational.org/pages/page.asp?page_id=31469 to answer life's two most important questions! From: DOM ST.JOHN <jsangiovanni@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 6, 2011 7:45 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Picked One Up Today   It is definitely a Gilbert HO switcher. It should have a piston choo choo smoke unit in the boiler. The type of trucks on the tender will date it. If you picked it up with a number of other items, such as freight cars, you may well have some Gilbert HO in there also. Look for any car with either a 500 series 3 digit number or a 33500 5 digit series number. Those will be the Gilbert HO. Dom From: Gary Woodard <betsy662@...> To: "vintageHO@yahoogroups.com" <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sat, November 5, 2011 9:08:41 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Picked One Up Today [3 Attachments]   Hi Guys and Girls,   I picked up an engine at a yardsale today, it was in a deal with some other model train stuff, it appears to be an old Penn Line Pennsy 0-6-0, but I'm just not sure, the entire engine is diecast, the boiler and cab, and the tender shell as well, I hope yahoo doesn't mess up with the attachments this time!   I really would like to get it running, haven't tried to run it yet, as there is one loose wire, so will definitely have to look into it before I do anything, but just wondering who made it?     Gary W       Click HERE http://www.eeinternational.org/pages/page.asp?page_id=31469 to answer life's two most important questions! -- Regards, Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17644	From: Gary Woodard	Date: 11/7/2011
Subject: Re: Picked One Up Today

Hi Nelson,   Thanks for the heads up, I doubt I will need to remove the motor, in the hopefully unlikely event that I would, then I would probably just replace it with a can motor, or one of the few 5 pole Pittmans I have laying around here!   Gary W       Click HERE http://www.eeinternational.org/pages/page.asp?page_id=31469 to answer life's two most important questions! From: Nelson <greenbrier614@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 6, 2011 8:43 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Picked One Up Today   Gary, Don't remove the magnet from the field under any circumstances, or you'll lose the bulk of the magnetism. I suppose it's safe to remove the armature as long as you use a keeper across the pole pieces, but that would really only be necessary in the event of a bad armature. I took a few pictures of one I restored with rare earth magnets, but these are diametrically magnetized, which means the poles are along the edges like the original. The original magnet does have a line across one face to show how the poles are oriented, though N and S aren't marked. http://tinyurl.com/d8z25xz Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jacob Bechtel <jhbivusa@...> wrote: > > Dear Gary, > > The AC Gilbert drawings on HOseeker.com are quite good. I have never > gotten one of these that I could not resurrect simply by cleaning them with > CRC electronic cleaner (No. 05103) that I get from the auto parts store and > then lubricating with LaBell oil and gear grease. I have never seen one > with worn out brushes or bearings. > I do caution you not to disassemble the magnet. It is *round* and I > still don't know if it has to be oriented especially to get proper > performance. If for any reason you do have to remove the magnet, be certain > that you mark it carefully so that you can reinstall it exactly as it came > out. > Take advantage of the offer from the fellow about the boiler front. > When AC Gilbert went under, Hobby Surplus Sales acquired the remaining > parts and trains inventory while Lionel got all patents and production > rights and tooling. He may have a boiler front. > The attachments might help. > > On Sun, Nov 6, 2011 at 4:37 PM, Gary Woodard <betsy662@...> wrote:

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17645	From: Gary Woodard	Date: 11/7/2011
Subject: Re: Picked One Up Today

Hi Walter,   Yep, has the horn hook, on the tender, there is no coupler on the pilot, evidently that was lost long ago!   Gary W       Click HERE http://www.eeinternational.org/pages/page.asp?page_id=31469 to answer life's two most important questions! From: Walter Bayer II <bayerw2@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 6, 2011 11:20 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Picked One Up Today   Mine is from '49 or '50, and the tender trucks are NOT sprung. The sideframes are solid castings. The couplers on mine are the Gilbert "automatic" couplers, used before the '51 to '54 hiatus. If yours has the so-called NMRA coupler, it is post hiatus. On Sun, Nov 6, 2011 at 8:42 PM, Gary Woodard <betsy662@...> wrote:   Hi Dom,   The trucks are solid castings, therefore I guess they are from the 60 to 63 period, it looks like someone had at least one of the trucks off, as the brass wheels are on the wrong side on one of the trucks!   Gary W     Click HERE http://www.eeinternational.org/pages/page.asp?page_id=31469 to answer life's two most important questions! From: DOM ST.JOHN <jsangiovanni@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 6, 2011 6:44 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Picked One Up Today   Your welcome Gary, I've collected Gilbert HO for a long time now and I would agree, it may be the best of the bunch! As to the tender trucks. If they are solid and not sprung, your engine is from 60 to 63. Sprung tender trucks and cloth wire should mean 58. Plastic wire and sprung trucks would mean 59. Of course that's assuming it's not been altered. More often than not, they are found pretty much as they were made. Dom From: Gary Woodard <betsy662@...> To: "vintageHO@yahoogroups.com" <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sun, November 6, 2011 5:58:17 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Picked One Up Today   Thanks Dom,   The cars in the boxes were put into sets, they are either LL or Model Power, they all still have their original boxes, so there weren't any Gilbert cars there, the engine was thrown in to the mix by the seller, as it was set off as a separate piece to be sold, when I bought all the trains, he told me to take that engine with me as well, turns out that engine is probably the best deal I got in the whole deal!   Gary W       Click HERE http://www.eeinternational.org/pages/page.asp?page_id=31469 to answer life's two most important questions! From: DOM ST.JOHN <jsangiovanni@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 6, 2011 7:45 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Picked One Up Today   It is definitely a Gilbert HO switcher. It should have a piston choo choo smoke unit in the boiler. The type of trucks on the tender will date it. If you picked it up with a number of other items, such as freight cars, you may well have some Gilbert HO in there also. Look for any car with either a 500 series 3 digit number or a 33500 5 digit series number. Those will be the Gilbert HO. Dom From: Gary Woodard <betsy662@...> To: "vintageHO@yahoogroups.com" <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sat, November 5, 2011 9:08:41 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Picked One Up Today [3 Attachments]   Hi Guys and Girls,   I picked up an engine at a yardsale today, it was in a deal with some other model train stuff, it appears to be an old Penn Line Pennsy 0-6-0, but I'm just not sure, the entire engine is diecast, the boiler and cab, and the tender shell as well, I hope yahoo doesn't mess up with the attachments this time!   I really would like to get it running, haven't tried to run it yet, as there is one loose wire, so will definitely have to look into it before I do anything, but just wondering who made it?     Gary W       Click HERE http://www.eeinternational.org/pages/page.asp?page_id=31469 to answer life's two most important questions! -- Regards, Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17646	From: Mike Sloane	Date: 11/7/2011
Subject: Re: Picked One Up Today

Sometimes folks "borrowed" the loco pilot coupler to replace a damaged one on one of the cars, after some careless operating or dropping on to the floor... Mike On 11/7/2011 7:38 AM, Gary Woodard wrote: > Hi Walter, > Yep, has the horn hook, on the tender, there is no coupler on the pilot, > evidently that was lost long ago! > Gary W

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17647	From: DOM ST.JOHN	Date: 11/7/2011
Subject: Re: Picked One Up Today

That's right Gary. The post war switchers had the Gilbert coupler and solid trucks. All of the car post war and up to 50 had the solid truck. The 31004 five digit switcher will have the NMRA coupler. Dom From: Walter Bayer II <bayerw2@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, November 6, 2011 11:20:53 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Picked One Up Today   Mine is from '49 or '50, and the tender trucks are NOT sprung. The sideframes are solid castings. The couplers on mine are the Gilbert "automatic" couplers, used before the '51 to '54 hiatus. If yours has the so-called NMRA coupler, it is post hiatus. On Sun, Nov 6, 2011 at 8:42 PM, Gary Woodard <betsy662@...> wrote:   Hi Dom,   The trucks are solid castings, therefore I guess they are from the 60 to 63 period, it looks like someone had at least one of the trucks off, as the brass wheels are on the wrong side on one of the trucks!   Gary W     Click HERE http://www.eeinternational.org/pages/page.asp?page_id=31469 to answer life's two most important questions! From: DOM ST.JOHN <jsangiovanni@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 6, 2011 6:44 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Picked One Up Today   Your welcome Gary, I've collected Gilbert HO for a long time now and I would agree, it may be the best of the bunch! As to the tender trucks. If they are solid and not sprung, your engine is from 60 to 63. Sprung tender trucks and cloth wire should mean 58. Plastic wire and sprung trucks would mean 59. Of course that's assuming it's not been altered. More often than not, they are found pretty much as they were made. Dom From: Gary Woodard <betsy662@...> To: "vintageHO@yahoogroups.com" <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sun, November 6, 2011 5:58:17 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Picked One Up Today   Thanks Dom,   The cars in the boxes were put into sets, they are either LL or Model Power, they all still have their original boxes, so there weren't any Gilbert cars there, the engine was thrown in to the mix by the seller, as it was set off as a separate piece to be sold, when I bought all the trains, he told me to take that engine with me as well, turns out that engine is probably the best deal I got in the whole deal!   Gary W       Click HERE http://www.eeinternational.org/pages/page.asp?page_id=31469 to answer life's two most important questions! From: DOM ST.JOHN <jsangiovanni@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 6, 2011 7:45 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Picked One Up Today   It is definitely a Gilbert HO switcher. It should have a piston choo choo smoke unit in the boiler. The type of trucks on the tender will date it. If you picked it up with a number of other items, such as freight cars, you may well have some Gilbert HO in there also. Look for any car with either a 500 series 3 digit number or a 33500 5 digit series number. Those will be the Gilbert HO. Dom From: Gary Woodard <betsy662@...> To: "vintageHO@yahoogroups.com" <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sat, November 5, 2011 9:08:41 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Picked One Up Today [3 Attachments]   Hi Guys and Girls,   I picked up an engine at a yardsale today, it was in a deal with some other model train stuff, it appears to be an old Penn Line Pennsy 0-6-0, but I'm just not sure, the entire engine is diecast, the boiler and cab, and the tender shell as well, I hope yahoo doesn't mess up with the attachments this time!   I really would like to get it running, haven't tried to run it yet, as there is one loose wire, so will definitely have to look into it before I do anything, but just wondering who made it?     Gary W       Click HERE http://www.eeinternational.org/pages/page.asp?page_id=31469 to answer life's two most important questions! -- Regards, Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17648	From: leetrains	Date: 11/7/2011
Subject: turntable picture folder link

Here is the folder link to the turntable I am asking about. Thanks, Lee http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/album/315450169/pic/list

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17649	From: leetrains	Date: 11/7/2011
Subject: ID of a turntable

hey there Thought maybe with your knowledge of vintage HO you could help me ID a turntable I traded a friend some cars and buildings for. There are no markings on it and while it came in its original foam packing, there is no outside box or instructions. Being as such makes it tough in trying to figure out how to wire to make it work without trying out swapping wires before I fry it. the table is 11 1/2 " across, the pit is metal and has a texture to it, is all one piece and is press stamped into form. The railings on the table are metal. rail is brass, building is metal and painted gray, roof is stamped corragated metal. It is an indexing type as there is a pin that pops out into the side of the pit and lines up the tracks with the table. Nice quality work to it . electrical hook up has three clips that are color coded red gray yellow. any ideas? I looked on ebay and not luck there or in a random internet search. will save a picture in the photo folder for " turntable ID" thanks, Lee

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17650	From: Lee	Date: 11/7/2011
Subject: Help in ID of a turntable

Attachments : IMG_2772 (1024x683).jpg hey there  Thought maybe with your knowledge of vintage HO you could help me ID a turntable I traded a friend some cars and buildings for.   There are no markings on it and while it came in its original foam packing, there is no outside box or instructions. Being as such makes it tough in trying to figure out how to wire to make it work without trying out swapping wires before I fry it. the table is 11 1/2 " across, the pit is metal and has a texture to it, is all one piece and is press stamped into form. The railings on the table are metal. rail is brass, building is metal and painted gray, roof is stamped corragated metal. It is an indexing type as there is a pin that pops out into the side of the pit and lines up the tracks with the table. Nice quality work to it . electrical hook up has three clips that are color coded red gray yellow. any ideas? I looked on ebay and not luck there or in a random internet search.   Lee Yuma, AZ

@@attachment@@

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17651	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 11/7/2011
Subject: Re: Help in ID of a turntable [1 Attachment]

Can't give you a definitive answer, but it has a look about it that suggests Fleischmann. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lee" <leetrains@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 10:50 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Help in ID of a turntable [1 Attachment] hey there Thought maybe with your knowledge of vintage HO you could help me ID a turntable I traded a friend some cars and buildings for. There are no markings on it and while it came in its original foam packing, there is no outside box or instructions. Being as such makes it tough in trying to figure out how to wire to make it work without trying out swapping wires before I fry it. the table is 11 1/2 " across, the pit is metal and has a texture to it, is all one piece and is press stamped into form. The railings on the table are metal. rail is brass, building is metal and painted gray, roof is stamped corragated metal. It is an indexing type as there is a pin that pops out into the side of the pit and lines up the tracks with the table. Nice quality work to it . electrical hook up has three clips that are color coded red gray yellow. any ideas? I looked on ebay and not luck there or in a random internet search. Lee Yuma, AZ

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17652	From: Russ Shiel	Date: 11/7/2011
Subject: Re: ID of a turntable

Lee...Google 'How to index a Fleischmann turntable' . It gives the following hookup instructions...you appear to be missing the track power feeds.   Wire Function Slip ring position Red Power to motor Inner Grey Switch to start the "indexing" process 2 Yellow Power to motor 3 Orange Track power feed 4 Orange Track power feed Outer                 Chrs, Russ   From: leetrains <leetrains@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, 8 November 2011 3:21 PM Subject: [vintageHO] ID of a turntable >snip< electrical hook up has three clips that are color coded red gray yellow. any ideas? I looked on ebay and not luck there or in a random internet search. will save a picture in the photo folder for " turntable ID"

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17653	From: Garry Spear	Date: 11/8/2011
Subject: Re: turntable picture folder link

This is a Riverossi/AHM turntable imported in the 1960s. Garrett Spear  On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 11:54 PM, leetrains <leetrains@...> wrote:   Here is the folder link to the turntable I am asking about. Thanks, Lee http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/album/315450169/pic/list

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17654	From: Geo Stahlberg	Date: 11/8/2011
Subject: Re: Help in ID of a turntable

i agree: looks like fleishmann from the 1960s.  if you have issues of MR that old, look in them for fleishmann ads.   geo From: Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 8, 2011 12:55 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Help in ID of a turntable   Can't give you a definitive answer, but it has a look about it that suggests Fleischmann. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lee" <leetrains@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 10:50 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Help in ID of a turntable [1 Attachment] hey there Thought maybe with your knowledge of vintage HO you could help me ID a turntable I traded a friend some cars and buildings for. There are no markings on it and while it came in its original foam packing, there is no outside box or instructions. Being as such makes it tough in trying to figure out how to wire to make it work without trying out swapping wires before I fry it. the table is 11 1/2 " across, the pit is metal and has a texture to it, is all one piece and is press stamped into form. The railings on the table are metal. rail is brass, building is metal and painted gray, roof is stamped corragated metal. It is an indexing type as there is a pin that pops out into the side of the pit and lines up the tracks with the table. Nice quality work to it . electrical hook up has three clips that are color coded red gray yellow. any ideas? I looked on ebay and not luck there or in a random internet search. Lee Yuma, AZ

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17655	From: Garry Spear	Date: 11/8/2011
Subject: Re: Help in ID of a turntable

Guys.  It is AHM by Rivarossi.  I owned and used one for years.  The tracks match with the Rivarossi round house sections. Garry Spear On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 4:39 PM, Geo Stahlberg <mermaidnc@...> wrote:   i agree: looks like fleishmann from the 1960s.  if you have issues of MR that old, look in them for fleishmann ads.   geo From: Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 8, 2011 12:55 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Help in ID of a turntable   Can't give you a definitive answer, but it has a look about it that suggests Fleischmann. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lee" <leetrains@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 10:50 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Help in ID of a turntable [1 Attachment] hey there Thought maybe with your knowledge of vintage HO you could help me ID a turntable I traded a friend some cars and buildings for. There are no markings on it and while it came in its original foam packing, there is no outside box or instructions. Being as such makes it tough in trying to figure out how to wire to make it work without trying out swapping wires before I fry it. the table is 11 1/2 " across, the pit is metal and has a texture to it, is all one piece and is press stamped into form. The railings on the table are metal. rail is brass, building is metal and painted gray, roof is stamped corragated metal. It is an indexing type as there is a pin that pops out into the side of the pit and lines up the tracks with the table. Nice quality work to it . electrical hook up has three clips that are color coded red gray yellow. any ideas? I looked on ebay and not luck there or in a random internet search. Lee Yuma, AZ

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17656	From: Andrew Emmerson	Date: 11/8/2011
Subject: Re: Help in ID of a turntable

I agree. The brass rails are the giveaway.   Andy Emmerson.   From: Don Dellmann Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2011 5:55 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Help in ID of a turntable     Can't give you a definitive answer, but it has a look about it that suggests Fleischmann. Don Don Dellmann mailto:don.dellmann%40prodigy.net http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lee" <mailto:leetrains%40yahoo.com> To: <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 10:50 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Help in ID of a turntable [1 Attachment] hey there Thought maybe with your knowledge of vintage HO you could help me ID a turntable I traded a friend some cars and buildings for. There are no markings on it and while it came in its original foam packing, there is no outside box or instructions. Being as such makes it tough in trying to figure out how to wire to make it work without trying out swapping wires before I fry it. the table is 11 1/2 " across, the pit is metal and has a texture to it, is all one piece and is press stamped into form. The railings on the table are metal. rail is brass, building is metal and painted gray, roof is stamped corragated metal. It is an indexing type as there is a pin that pops out into the side of the pit and lines up the tracks with the table. Nice quality work to it . electrical hook up has three clips that are color coded red gray yellow. any ideas? I looked on ebay and not luck there or in a random internet search. Lee Yuma, AZ

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17657	From: Andrew Emmerson	Date: 11/8/2011
Subject: Re: Help in ID of a turntable

Here it is...   http://alte-modellbahnen.xobor.de/t432f50-Fleischmann-Drehscheibe.html   and scroll down. If you use Google Chrome, it will translate the page for you ‘on the fly’.   Best regards, Andy Emmerson.       From: Geo Stahlberg Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2011 9:39 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Help in ID of a turntable     i agree: looks like fleishmann from the 1960s.  if you have issues of MR that old, look in them for fleishmann ads.   geo   From: Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 8, 2011 12:55 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Help in ID of a turntable   Can't give you a definitive answer, but it has a look about it that suggests Fleischmann. Don Don Dellmann mailto:don.dellmann%40prodigy.net http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lee" <mailto:leetrains%40yahoo.com> To: <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 10:50 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Help in ID of a turntable [1 Attachment] hey there Thought maybe with your knowledge of vintage HO you could help me ID a turntable I traded a friend some cars and buildings for. There are no markings on it and while it came in its original foam packing, there is no outside box or instructions. Being as such makes it tough in trying to figure out how to wire to make it work without trying out swapping wires before I fry it. the table is 11 1/2 " across, the pit is metal and has a texture to it, is all one piece and is press stamped into form. The railings on the table are metal. rail is brass, building is metal and painted gray, roof is stamped corragated metal. It is an indexing type as there is a pin that pops out into the side of the pit and lines up the tracks with the table. Nice quality work to it . electrical hook up has three clips that are color coded red gray yellow. any ideas? I looked on ebay and not luck there or in a random internet search. Lee Yuma, AZ

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17658	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 11/8/2011
Subject: Re: Help in ID of a turntable

It may be AHM, I may be mistaken, I often am, but I never saw a turntable in an AHM ad or catalog. I also never knew Rivarossi to offer structures. Aristo Craft used to market Fleischmann material under their own name which could cause some confusion. One thing to check, ANYWHERE on it is there a country of origin? If it says "Italy" anywhere, I'll buy the Rivarossi, but if anywhere it's marked "Germany" I stand by the Fleischmann origin. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "Garry Spear" <garrettspear@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2011 3:56 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Help in ID of a turntable Guys. It is AHM by Rivarossi. I owned and used one for years. The tracks match with the Rivarossi round house sections. Garry Spear On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 4:39 PM, Geo Stahlberg <mermaidnc@...> wrote: > ** > > > i agree: looks like fleishmann from the 1960s. if you have issues of MR > that old, look in them for fleishmann ads. > > geo > > *From:* Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> > *To:* vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > *Sent:* Tuesday, November 8, 2011 12:55 AM > *Subject:* Re: [vintageHO] Help in ID of a turntable > > > Can't give you a definitive answer, but it has a look about it that > suggests > Fleischmann. > > Don > > Don Dellmann > don.dellmann@... > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ > http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction > Owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lee" <leetrains@...> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 10:50 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Help in ID of a turntable [1 Attachment] > > hey there > Thought maybe with your knowledge of vintage HO you could help me ID a > turntable I traded a friend some cars and buildings for. > There are no markings on it and while it came in its original foam > packing, > there is no outside box or instructions. Being as such makes it tough in > trying to figure out how to wire to make it work without trying out > swapping > wires before I fry it. > the table is 11 1/2 " across, the pit is metal and has a texture to it, is > all one piece and is press stamped into form. The railings on the table > are > metal. rail is brass, building is metal and painted gray, roof is stamped > corragated metal. It is an indexing type as there is a pin that pops out > into the side of the pit and lines up the tracks with the table. Nice > quality work to it . electrical hook up has three clips that are color > coded > red gray yellow. > any ideas? I looked on ebay and not luck there or in a random internet > search. > > Lee > Yuma, AZ > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17659	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 11/8/2011
Subject: Re: Help in ID of a turntable

Gentlemen, Check this out, "http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rivarossi-3851-turntable-used-working-condition-HO-/280738538985". Lee, how close are the pix in this ended listing to the unit you own? I haven't succeeded in locating good pix of the Fleischmann turntable, but take a look at this, "http://www.reynaulds.com/catalog/dept_719.aspx". That trackway in the well seems to be a distinguishing feature. Walter On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 8:15 PM, Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote: It may be AHM, I may be mistaken, I often am,  but I never saw a turntable in an AHM ad or catalog.  I also never knew Rivarossi to offer structures. Aristo  Craft used to market Fleischmann material under their own name which could cause some confusion. One thing to check, ANYWHERE on it is there a country of origin?  If it says "Italy" anywhere, I'll buy the Rivarossi, but if anywhere it's marked "Germany" I stand by the Fleischmann origin. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "Garry Spear" <garrettspear@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2011 3:56 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Help in ID of a turntable Guys.  It is AHM by Rivarossi.  I owned and used one for years.  The tracks match with the Rivarossi round house sections. Garry Spear On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 4:39 PM, Geo Stahlberg <mermaidnc@...> wrote: > ** > > > i agree: looks like fleishmann from the 1960s.  if you have issues of MR > that old, look in them for fleishmann ads. > > geo > >  *From:* Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> > *To:* vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > *Sent:* Tuesday, November 8, 2011 12:55 AM > *Subject:* Re: [vintageHO] Help in ID of a turntable > > > Can't give you a definitive answer, but it has a look about it that > suggests > Fleischmann. > > Don > > Don Dellmann > don.dellmann@... > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ > http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction > Owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lee" <leetrains@...> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 10:50 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Help in ID of a turntable [1 Attachment] > > hey there > Thought maybe with your knowledge of vintage HO you could help me ID a > turntable I traded a friend some cars and buildings for. > There are no markings on it and while it came in its original foam > packing, > there is no outside box or instructions. Being as such makes it tough in > trying to figure out how to wire to make it work without trying out > swapping > wires before I fry it. > the table is 11 1/2 " across, the pit is metal and has a texture to it, is > all one piece and is press stamped into form. The railings on the table > are > metal. rail is brass, building is metal and painted gray, roof is stamped > corragated metal. It is an indexing type as there is a pin that pops out > into the side of the pit and lines up the tracks with the table. Nice > quality work to it . electrical hook up has three clips that are color > coded > red gray yellow. > any ideas? I looked on ebay and not luck there or in a random internet > search. > > Lee > Yuma, AZ

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17660	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 11/8/2011
Subject: Re: Help in ID of a turntable

I stand corrected, I'd never seen a 'Rossi before. The Fleischmann is very similar, I will scan a catalog page today and post it tonight, the biggest difference seems to be the length. Don ----- Original Message ----- From: "Walter Bayer II" <bayerw2@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2011 9:45 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Help in ID of a turntable > Gentlemen, > > Check this out, " > http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rivarossi-3851-turntable-used-working-condition-HO-/280738538985 > ". > > Lee, how close are the pix in this ended listing to the unit you own? > > I haven't succeeded in locating good pix of the Fleischmann turntable, but > take a look at this, "http://www.reynaulds.com/catalog/dept_719.aspx". > That > trackway in the well seems to be a distinguishing feature. > > Walter > > On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 8:15 PM, Don Dellmann > <don.dellmann@...>wrote: > >> It may be AHM, I may be mistaken, I often am, but I never saw a >> turntable >> in an AHM ad or catalog. I also never knew Rivarossi to offer >> structures. >> Aristo Craft used to market Fleischmann material under their own name >> which >> could cause some confusion. >> >> One thing to check, ANYWHERE on it is there a country of origin? If it >> says >> "Italy" anywhere, I'll buy the Rivarossi, but if anywhere it's marked >> "Germany" I stand by the Fleischmann origin. >> >> Don >> >> Don Dellmann >> don.dellmann@... >> http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ >> http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction >> Owner >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Garry Spear" <garrettspear@...> >> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> >> Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2011 3:56 PM >> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Help in ID of a turntable >> >> >> Guys. It is AHM by Rivarossi. I owned and used one for years. The >> tracks >> match with the Rivarossi round house sections. >> >> Garry Spear >> >> On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 4:39 PM, Geo Stahlberg <mermaidnc@...> >> wrote: >> >> > ** >> > >> > >> > i agree: looks like fleishmann from the 1960s. if you have issues of >> > MR >> > that old, look in them for fleishmann ads. >> > >> > geo >> > >> > *From:* Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> >> > *To:* vintageHO@yahoogroups.com >> > *Sent:* Tuesday, November 8, 2011 12:55 AM >> > *Subject:* Re: [vintageHO] Help in ID of a turntable >> > >> > >> > Can't give you a definitive answer, but it has a look about it that >> > suggests >> > Fleischmann. >> > >> > Don >> > >> > Don Dellmann >> > don.dellmann@... >> > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ >> > http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction >> > Owner >> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO >> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery >> > >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: "Lee" <leetrains@...> >> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> >> > Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 10:50 PM >> > Subject: [vintageHO] Help in ID of a turntable [1 Attachment] >> > >> > hey there >> > Thought maybe with your knowledge of vintage HO you could help me ID a >> > turntable I traded a friend some cars and buildings for. >> > There are no markings on it and while it came in its original foam >> > packing, >> > there is no outside box or instructions. Being as such makes it tough >> > in >> > trying to figure out how to wire to make it work without trying out >> > swapping >> > wires before I fry it. >> > the table is 11 1/2 " across, the pit is metal and has a texture to it, >> is >> > all one piece and is press stamped into form. The railings on the table >> > are >> > metal. rail is brass, building is metal and painted gray, roof is >> > stamped >> > corragated metal. It is an indexing type as there is a pin that pops >> > out >> > into the side of the pit and lines up the tracks with the table. Nice >> > quality work to it . electrical hook up has three clips that are color >> > coded >> > red gray yellow. >> > any ideas? I looked on ebay and not luck there or in a random internet >> > search. >> > >> > Lee >> > Yuma, AZ >> >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17661	From: Nelson	Date: 11/9/2011
Subject: Re: Help in ID of a turntable

It makes sense that the Rivarossi turntable would be larger, given the large steamers they made. The Y6b had a pin in the pilot you had to lift to elevate the lead truck so it would fit. http://www.hoseeker.org/AHMRivarossiassembly/ahm2882lubeinstr1967pg2.jpg Here's the turntable & roundhouse in the 1963 catalog. www.hoseeker.org/ahminformation/ahmcatalog1963page01.jpg In Lee's photo it looks like the Fleischmann has a Bakelite deck. Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > I stand corrected, I'd never seen a 'Rossi before. The Fleischmann is very > similar, I will scan a catalog page today and post it tonight, the biggest > difference seems to be the length. > > Don

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17662	From: rcjge	Date: 11/9/2011
Subject: United made Sierra 2-6-6-2 run variations?

Hey Guys: I was wondering if in the late 50's early 60's runs of the United (Japan) Brass Sierra 2-6-6-2 Mallets there were any significant changes in the mechanics or the cosmetics? Thanks, Gareth

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17663	From: tom bell	Date: 11/9/2011
Subject: Re: United made Sierra 2-6-6-2 run variations?

At the very least the later runs had better castings and added plastic brake shoes, I've a feeling some of the details in the earlier runs where stampings which were replaced by finer etched parts later  - the motor varied between runs but I'm nor sure which is the best version. Think the gearing was the same noisy version throughout. The final run was produced as Rayonier 120 and featured different details and a can motor and is significantly more expensive and rarer.   Tom  On 9 November 2011 19:03, rcjge <jgpedwards@...> wrote:   Hey Guys: I was wondering if in the late 50's early 60's runs of the United (Japan) Brass Sierra 2-6-6-2 Mallets there were any significant changes in the mechanics or the cosmetics? Thanks, Gareth

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17664	From: leetrains	Date: 11/9/2011
Subject: Re: Help in ID of a turntable

The Flieschmann picture is exactly it, the table shape and the design on the deck are a dead match. Only thing missing is the controller handle. Looks brand new even, absolutly no wear scratches or other on it any where. Now to find some instructions for it.... I translated it with Babblefish but not finding a model number or intructions link though. Thanks, helps a bunch!! --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Andrew Emmerson" <andrew.emmerson4@...> wrote: > > > Here it is... > > http://alte-modellbahnen.xobor.de/t432f50-Fleischmann-Drehscheibe.html and scroll down. If you use Google Chrome, it will translate the page for you ‘on the fly’. > > Best regards, > Andy Emmerson. > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17665	From: rcjge	Date: 11/9/2011
Subject: Re: United made Sierra 2-6-6-2 run variations?

Thanks Tom, That was all useful. Best, Gareth

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17666	From: leetrains	Date: 11/10/2011
Subject: Re: Help in ID of a turntable

Bakelite!! that's it! A couple of us were kicking that arond in that we could not come up with the Bakelite name though.. too funny. Thanks all for your help with this.. Lee --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Nelson" <greenbrier614@...> wrote: > > It makes sense that the Rivarossi turntable would be larger, given the large steamers they made. The Y6b had a pin in the pilot you had to lift to elevate the lead truck so it would fit. > > http://www.hoseeker.org/AHMRivarossiassembly/ahm2882lubeinstr1967pg2.jpg > > Here's the turntable & roundhouse in the 1963 catalog. > > www.hoseeker.org/ahminformation/ahmcatalog1963page01.jpg > > In Lee's photo it looks like the Fleischmann has a Bakelite deck. > > Nelson > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@> wrote: > > > > I stand corrected, I'd never seen a 'Rossi before. The Fleischmann is very > > similar, I will scan a catalog page today and post it tonight, the biggest > > difference seems to be the length. > > > > Don >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17667	From: boxcar4willhe	Date: 11/11/2011
Subject: Re: armature repair question

Hi Sean, The replacement motor truck came yesterday and I installed it. it runs good. The red wire was too stiff. It pushed against the motor and derailed the truck. I replaced it with the wire from the bad motor. All fixed. Thanks. Do you want me to send you something for it? Thanks again. Lon Walker By the way, I had a 68 or 69 Mustang right out of High School. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > Hi Lon, > > I found and packed up in a box for shipping, a replacement motor and powered truck for your Marx New Haven F3 diesel. I need from you an address to mail this to. Please send me an email off-line. My email is a69mustang4me@... > > I will get this in the mail today if you reply before my postman gets here at ~3:00 pm. > > Thanks, > >   > Sean > > > "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! > > > ________________________________ > From: boxcar4willhe <wlon17@...> > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thursday, November 3, 2011 12:15 AM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: armature repair question > > >   > > > Sean, I posted two more pictures of New Haven trains under Walker,Lon's trains in the Photos section. . Lon Walker > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@> wrote: > > > > I think I can help you out Lon, > > > > I really like your choice in roadnames Ron. > > > > Just picked up this brass flanger myself tonight: > > > > > > > > > > Sean > > > > "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: boxcar4willhe <wlon17@> > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Wednesday, November 2, 2011 12:08 AM > > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: armature repair question > > > > > >   > > > > > > Hi Sean I created a photo album, Walker Lon's trains, and posted three pictures of the chassis and motor. Check them out. Thanks. Lon Walker > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@> wrote: > > > > > > Hi Lon, > > > > > > I might have a old Marx motor you are welcome to, if I have one. Can you post a picture of yours so I can compare with what I have?  Since i am modeler first, then a collector, i have no problems swapping parts with original used or unused parts. > > > > > >   > > > Sean > > > > > > > > > "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > From: boxcar4willhe <wlon17@> > > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 1, 2011 10:44 PM > > > Subject: [vintageHO] armature repair question > > > > > > > > >   > > > Hi All, I have a new old diesel that does not run. When I tried to run it one of he brush springs got hot and started to glow. I can see that there is a break in the enameled wire on the armature. Is it possible to repair this in any way. I hesitate to mention that this is a Marx F unit as I suspect that Marx my be looked down on here. Not sure but this is a repair question not a collector question. As I am new to the group and have modeled as a lone wolf for so long, perhaps someone could comment on what is customary in the hobby when it comes to repairing H0 engines. Is it done or do you swap out motors or complete chassis etc.? Thanks. Lon Walker > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17668	From: boxcar4willhe	Date: 11/11/2011
Subject: Re: armature repair question

Hi Nelson, Thanks for the reply to my question. I am willing to try the soldering but am unsure of how to determine which end to solder. There are two ends. I assume I will have to remove a little of the coating on the winding wire. I don't know about the insulation on the brush wire. There is a plastic covering on the one brush. It is the naked spring that heats up. Any ideas? Thanks. Lon Walker --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Nelson" <greenbrier614@...> wrote: > > Lon, If you're comfortable doing fine soldering, you can solder a piece of fine gauge wire to the broken end of the winding, then solder it to the commutator where it used to terminate. The windings don't look burned, so something may have simply hit the wire and snapped it. > > If the brush spring is heating up, then the insulator on the spring must have a hole in it, causing a direct short. > > Nelson > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "boxcar4willhe" <wlon17@> wrote: > > > > Hi All, I have a new old diesel that does not run. When I tried to run it one of he brush springs got hot and started to glow. I can see that there is a break in the enameled wire on the armature. Is it possible to repair this in any way. I hesitate to mention that this is a Marx F unit as I suspect that Marx my be looked down on here. Not sure but this is a repair question not a collector question. As I am new to the group and have modeled as a lone wolf for so long, perhaps someone could comment on what is customary in the hobby when it comes to repairing H0 engines. Is it done or do you swap out motors or complete chassis etc.? Thanks. Lon Walker > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17669	From: rcjge	Date: 11/12/2011
Subject: Fleicshmann Baldwin Switcher info sought

Hey Guys: I'm likely going to acquire a Fleicshmann Baldwin Switcher in a trade. It's in good shape one of the CN&W ones. I'll be giving up an Atlas-Kato RS11 (LV) for it. My question was, what changes took place over the production? One of my friends units has Talgo mounted couplers the other frame mounted. Its unlikely someone converted frame couplers to Talgo, but the obverse isn't at all uncommon so that may not be original. Anybody? What about production period, and does anyone have a diagram or info that came in the box when they were sold? Thanks for any help, Gareth

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17670	From: Nelson	Date: 11/12/2011
Subject: Re: armature repair question

Lon, The end of the wire towards the back of the armature is what you have to connect to the commutator with a makeshift jumper, which will replace the short broken section attached to the commutator terminal. If you leave a well tinned soldering iron tip on the end of the wire long enough, the enamel will burn away and the wire will take the solder without having to scrape. I think the brush spring is a single piece of spring wire, and the only thing preventing a short is the piece of insulation on one end. My guess is that it's worn or melted through. Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "boxcar4willhe" <wlon17@...> wrote: > > > > Hi Nelson, Thanks for the reply to my question. I am willing to try the soldering but am unsure of how to determine which end to solder. There are two ends. I assume I will have to remove a little of the coating on the winding wire. I don't know about the insulation on the brush wire. There is a plastic covering on the one brush. It is the naked spring that heats up. Any ideas? Thanks. Lon Walker

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17671	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 11/12/2011
Subject: Re: Stlil here

On 11/12/2011 1:44 PM, Jim Heckard wrote: > > > Haven't written or responded much lately. Still dealing with medical > problem . I 've been thorough a number of test some more then > once.Still no definite cause but they sure no how to run up money. > Keep your thoughts and prayers on me for Nov 21. > > > > Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17672	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 11/12/2011
Subject: Re: Stlil here

How you doing Jim? Hope you are hanging in there.   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2011 1:48 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Stlil here   On 11/12/2011 1:44 PM, Jim Heckard wrote: > > > Haven't written or responded much lately. Still dealing with medical > problem . I 've been thorough a number of test some more then > once.Still no definite cause but they sure no how to run up money. > Keep your thoughts and prayers on me for Nov 21. > > > > Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17673	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 11/12/2011
Subject: Re: Stlil here

You most definately have my thoughts and prayers Jim.  A few of us in my town rwent through a acute respiratory arrest thingy in April.  I lucked out and dragged myself to my VA primary Doc. She's an old country Doc and with the help of her long time nurse they got my oxygen up and breathing rate and blood pressure down so I was able to recover more or less fully at home.  We never have learned what caused it or why but the others that I know who got the same affliction during a 10 day time span wound up in Intensive Care for a couple of weeks before they started to pull out of it.  Then for desert my pacemaker failed! So I had a good scare but now I have a new pacemaker....heh ... heh    I am going to add you to our prayer list at church.  God bless and keep you. Jake B. Gadsden, AL On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 12:48 PM, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: On 11/12/2011 1:44 PM, Jim Heckard wrote: > > >  Haven't written or responded much lately. Still dealing with medical > problem . I 've been thorough a number of test some more then > once.Still no definite cause but they sure no how to run up money. > Keep your thoughts and prayers on me for Nov 21. > > > > Jim H ------------------------------------

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17674	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 11/12/2011
Subject: Re: Stlil here

"Keep your thoughts and prayers on me for Nov 21." Will do! On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 2:48 PM, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote:   On 11/12/2011 1:44 PM, Jim Heckard wrote: > > > Haven't written or responded much lately. Still dealing with medical > problem . I 've been thorough a number of test some more then > once.Still no definite cause but they sure no how to run up money. > Keep your thoughts and prayers on me for Nov 21. > > > > Jim H -- Regards, Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17675	From: Donald R. Staton	Date: 11/12/2011
Subject: Re: Stlil here

Jim, you have our prayers too!  I just recovered from Congestive Heart Failure and respiratory problems caused by other medications I was using for my eyes.  I am doing fine now. Be greater blessed and recover too... Don Staton in Va. ================================================== On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 2:48 PM, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote:   On 11/12/2011 1:44 PM, Jim Heckard wrote: > > > Haven't written or responded much lately. Still dealing with medical > problem . I 've been thorough a number of test some more then > once.Still no definite cause but they sure no how to run up money. > Keep your thoughts and prayers on me for Nov 21. > > > > Jim H -- Regards, Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17676	From: tom leen	Date: 11/12/2011
Subject: Re: Stlil here

Hi Jim, You're in my thoughts and prayers.  God Bless.  Wishing you the best. Tom --- On Sat, 11/12/11, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Stlil here To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, November 12, 2011, 6:48 PM   On 11/12/2011 1:44 PM, Jim Heckard wrote: > > > Haven't written or responded much lately. Still dealing with medical > problem . I 've been thorough a number of test some more then > once.Still no definite cause but they sure no how to run up money. > Keep your thoughts and prayers on me for Nov 21. > > > > Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17677	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 11/12/2011
Subject: Re: Stlil here

Hi Jim, My thoughts and prayers will not only be with you on November 21st, but from now until the time it takes that sees you get better. Take care of yourself and let God do the rest. Best Wishes, Hope you're feeling better soon. Ray Wetzel</HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17678	From: grassball2003	Date: 11/12/2011
Subject: Need Parts List: Roundhouse #1516 Jordan Spreader / Snow Crab &Tool

Hi, I have an old Roundhouse #1516 Jordan Spreader / Snow Crab & Tool Car kit. It has the assembly instructions, but no parts list. Does anyone know if it even came with a Parts List? And if so, do you have a copy you could copy/scan and would be willing to send/email to me. I'll pay postage. Please contact me off list if you can help. Thanks! George gabvball at sbcglobal dot net

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17679	From: gary	Date: 11/12/2011
Subject: Concrete piers

Hey guys, I need some suggestions. I cannot find anything suitable to make some tapered concrete piers in HO, for such things as crossing signals and bases for track signals. I want some tapered square style piers. Any suggustions on what to use or how to make some? I thought maybe cardboard forms and cast some from plaster or even real concrete. Thanks for any ideas!!! Gary

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17680	From: Nelson	Date: 11/13/2011
Subject: Re: Stlil here

We've missed you here, Jim. I'll be keeping you in my thoughts. Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > On 11/12/2011 1:44 PM, Jim Heckard wrote: > > > > > > Haven't written or responded much lately. Still dealing with medical > > problem . I 've been thorough a number of test some more then > > once.Still no definite cause but they sure no how to run up money. > > Keep your thoughts and prayers on me for Nov 21. > > > > > > > > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17681	From: Glenn	Date: 11/13/2011
Subject: Re: Concrete piers

the answer is right at my fingertips (bad joke)---Not too long ago I saw an item about using computer keys from a scrapped keyboard. perhaps some cleanup with a sander. gj -----Original Message----- From: gary Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2011 5:40 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Concrete piers Hey guys, I need some suggestions. I cannot find anything suitable to make some tapered concrete piers in HO, for such things as crossing signals and bases for track signals. I want some tapered square style piers. Any suggustions on what to use or how to make some? I thought maybe cardboard forms and cast some from plaster or even real concrete. Thanks for any ideas!!! Gary ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17682	From: gary pardue	Date: 11/13/2011
Subject: Re: Concrete piers

Glenn, Thanks for the tip. I have looked at several keyboards and all I can find has keys that are not true tapers. They are straight on one side, I will keep looking. Thanks. Gary --- On Sun, 11/13/11, Glenn <glenn476@...> wrote: From: Glenn <glenn476@...> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Concrete piers To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, November 13, 2011, 6:09 PM   the answer is right at my fingertips (bad joke)---Not too long ago I saw an item about using computer keys from a scrapped keyboard. perhaps some cleanup with a sander. gj -----Original Message----- From: gary Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2011 5:40 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Concrete piers Hey guys, I need some suggestions. I cannot find anything suitable to make some tapered concrete piers in HO, for such things as crossing signals and bases for track signals. I want some tapered square style piers. Any suggustions on what to use or how to make some? I thought maybe cardboard forms and cast some from plaster or even real concrete. Thanks for any ideas!!! Gary ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17683	From: tomvanhoy	Date: 11/13/2011
Subject: Re; Concrete piers

Ice cube tray? They do make some small ones. Good Luck, Tom

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17684	From: gary pardue	Date: 11/13/2011
Subject: Re: Re; Concrete piers

Tom, I will check out your idea. Thanks! Gary --- On Sun, 11/13/11, tomvanhoy <tomvanhoy@...> wrote: From: tomvanhoy <tomvanhoy@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Re; Concrete piers To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, November 13, 2011, 7:38 PM   Ice cube tray? They do make some small ones. Good Luck, Tom

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17685	From: topstokes	Date: 11/14/2011
Subject: Lansing Model RR Club annual show Lansing MI

MID MICHIGAN'S LARGEST TRAIN SHOW A Great Family Event! The Lansing Model Railroad Club is sponsoring their annual Train Show and Sale on Sunday, November 20, 2011. Show times are 10:00 – 4:00. Ticket Sales begin at 9:30. A limited number of tables are still available: All tables sold. - Over 500 tables. - Free Parking - 12 display layouts from Z to G Scale! - Large open venue - Live demos by NMRA North Central Region Division 5 - New models, toy trains, Thomas the Tank Engine toys, Railroad Memorabilia, book and DVDs, collectibles and much, much more! - $6 Admission - Under 12 FREE - Scouts in uniform FREE More details and table reservations can be found at: http://www.lmrc.org We hope to see you there! Don Stokes Lansing Model Railroad Club

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17686	From: Richard	Date: 11/14/2011
Subject: Re: Concrete piers

Make one out of wood and then duplicate it with plaster by making a mold with Woodland Scenics latex rubber. Richard in Vermont > -----Original Message----- > From: gary > Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2011 5:40 PM > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [vintageHO] Concrete piers > > Hey guys, > I need some suggestions. I cannot find anything suitable to make some > tapered concrete piers in HO, for such things as crossing signals and bases > for track signals. I want some tapered square style piers. Any suggustions > on what to use or how to make some? I thought maybe cardboard forms and cast > some from plaster or even real concrete. Thanks for any ideas!!! > Gary > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17687	From: AlfredG	Date: 11/15/2011
Subject: ORLANDO area Train Show this Saturday

The Southern Division of the Train Collectors association is holding our annual Orlando Area (Maitland) meet on Saturday, November 19th, at The First Presbyterian Church at 341 North Orlando Ave (US 17-92) in Maitland, FL. The meet opens to the general public at 11 AM and runs until 4PM. ALL Gauges will be displayed and for sale. There will be food available for purchase, provided by the church Youth Group. This is one of our larger and better meets. Since Orlando is centrally located in Florida, we get many buyers and sellers from all areas of the state. To get to the church, Exit I-4 at Maitland Blvd (Exit 90). Go east on Maitland Blvd to Orlando Ave (exit right before overpass). Turn right on Orlando Ave (highways 17/92). The First Presbyterian Church is a few blocks down on your right. Parking is at the church or across the street at the Publix lot. Come join us for some fun. Al

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17688	From: Alpvalsys@aol.com	Date: 11/16/2011
Subject: Re: ORLANDO area Train Show this Saturday

Would love to come down, but two things stop me.  First, my cousin's condo is already rented out and I can't afford a hotel.  Second, I spent all my spare cash buying old Athearn and Roundhouse "blue box" kits at this past Sunday's show in Poughkeepsie.  ;-)   Ralph Balfoort

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17689	From: nvrr49	Date: 11/16/2011
Subject: Gilbert question

I have a Gilbert tank car, but the frame clearly says Varney, is this correct. Kent in KC

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17690	From: DOM ST.JOHN	Date: 11/16/2011
Subject: Re: Gilbert question

Yes, the new line in 1955 had Varney supplied cars. They were the 501 CB&Q hopper. The 510 Manon Hopper. The 500 Gulf tank car and the 502 MKT stock car. The Gilbert number will tell them apart from the Varney line cars. Always look for the 500 series numbers or the 33500 series numbers. Those are the Gilbert numbers. Dom From: nvrr49 <nvrr49@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, November 16, 2011 7:20:43 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Gilbert question   I have a Gilbert tank car, but the frame clearly says Varney, is this correct. Kent in KC

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17691	From: Glenn	Date: 11/16/2011
Subject: Re: Gilbert question

dies got around quite a bit during the "train set era" in HO.Generally the dies came from one of the big manufacturers, probably making equipment under contract for the toymaker lines. gj -----Original Message----- From: nvrr49 Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2011 4:20 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Gilbert question I have a Gilbert tank car, but the frame clearly says Varney, is this correct. Kent in KC ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17692	From: Dale Smith	Date: 11/16/2011
Subject: Re: Gilbert question

Both the 500 and 33500 are clearly Gilbert numbers but only the 3 digit numbers were attached to Varney manufactured cars marketed by Gilbert.   I am not aware of any 5 digit Varney cars.   By the time Gilbert changed over to 5 digit numbering, they had gotten their own production going.   The use of the Varney cars enabled Gilbert to restart the line more quickly after it had been shutdown from 1951 to 1954 due to the Korean War.   If you are interested in seeing some side by side comparisons of the Varney and Gilbert cars of the same number, take a look at the car numbers below, as well as 517, 518, and 525 on the Gilbert HO index.   www.gilbertho.org Dale Smith On 11/16/2011 4:33 PM, DOM ST.JOHN wrote:   Yes, the new line in 1955 had Varney supplied cars. They were the 501 CB&Q hopper. The 510 Manon Hopper. The 500 Gulf tank car and the 502 MKT stock car. The Gilbert number will tell them apart from the Varney line cars. Always look for the 500 series numbers or the 33500 series numbers. Those are the Gilbert numbers. Dom From: nvrr49 <nvrr49@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, November 16, 2011 7:20:43 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Gilbert question   I have a Gilbert tank car, but the frame clearly says Varney, is this correct. Kent in KC

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17693	From: nvrr49	Date: 11/16/2011
Subject: Re: Gilbert question

great resource. thanks guys Kent in KC nvrr49.blogdpot.com --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Dale Smith <dfsmith26@...> wrote: > > Both the 500 and 33500 are clearly Gilbert numbers but only the 3 digit > numbers were attached to Varney manufactured cars marketed by Gilbert. > I am not aware of any 5 digit Varney cars. By the time Gilbert changed > over to 5 digit numbering, they had gotten their own production going. > The use of the Varney cars enabled Gilbert to restart the line more > quickly after it had been shutdown from 1951 to 1954 due to the Korean War. > > If you are interested in seeing some side by side comparisons of the > Varney and Gilbert cars of the same number, take a look at the car > numbers below, as well as 517, 518, and 525 on the Gilbert HO index. > www.gilbertho.org > > Dale Smith > > On 11/16/2011 4:33 PM, DOM ST.JOHN wrote: > > Yes, the new line in 1955 had Varney supplied cars. They were the 501 > > CB&Q hopper. The 510 Manon Hopper. The 500 Gulf tank car and the 502 > > MKT stock car. The Gilbert number will tell them apart from the Varney > > line cars. Always look for the 500 series numbers or the 33500 series > > numbers. Those are the Gilbert numbers. > > Dom > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *From:* nvrr49 <nvrr49@...> > > *To:* vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > *Sent:* Wed, November 16, 2011 7:20:43 PM > > *Subject:* [vintageHO] Gilbert question > > > > I have a Gilbert tank car, but the frame clearly says Varney, is this > > correct. > > > > Kent in KC > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17694	From: DOM ST.JOHN	Date: 11/16/2011
Subject: Re: Gilbert question

Hi Dale, I could have been a little clearer on my answer! Never meant to say the Varney cars would carry the 5 digit number. Just wanted to show that any cars with those 3 digit as well as the 5 digit numbers would be the Gilbert HO Line. Now to be even more confusing, for Kent, he should know the 500 series 3 digit number is found on the Gilbert version car too! Now his head is spinning!! Your advice to visit the gilbertho.org sight is just what will help to clear things a bit. Dom From: Dale Smith <dfsmith26@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, November 16, 2011 8:24:45 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Gilbert question   Both the 500 and 33500 are clearly Gilbert numbers but only the 3 digit numbers were attached to Varney manufactured cars marketed by Gilbert.   I am not aware of any 5 digit Varney cars.   By the time Gilbert changed over to 5 digit numbering, they had gotten their own production going.   The use of the Varney cars enabled Gilbert to restart the line more quickly after it had been shutdown from 1951 to 1954 due to the Korean War.   If you are interested in seeing some side by side comparisons of the Varney and Gilbert cars of the same number, take a look at the car numbers below, as well as 517, 518, and 525 on the Gilbert HO index.   www.gilbertho.org Dale Smith On 11/16/2011 4:33 PM, DOM ST.JOHN wrote:   Yes, the new line in 1955 had Varney supplied cars. They were the 501 CB&Q hopper. The 510 Manon Hopper. The 500 Gulf tank car and the 502 MKT stock car. The Gilbert number will tell them apart from the Varney line cars. Always look for the 500 series numbers or the 33500 series numbers. Those are the Gilbert numbers. Dom From: nvrr49 <nvrr49@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, November 16, 2011 7:20:43 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Gilbert question   I have a Gilbert tank car, but the frame clearly says Varney, is this correct. Kent in KC

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17695	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 11/16/2011
Subject: Re: Gilbert question

----- Original Message ----- From: "nvrr49" <nvrr49@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2011 8:01 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Gilbert question > great resource. thanks guys > > Kent in KC > nvrr49.blogdpot.com > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Dale Smith <dfsmith26@...> wrote: >> >> Both the 500 and 33500 are clearly Gilbert numbers but only the 3 digit >> numbers were attached to Varney manufactured cars marketed by Gilbert. >> I am not aware of any 5 digit Varney cars. By the time Gilbert changed >> over to 5 digit numbering, they had gotten their own production going. >> The use of the Varney cars enabled Gilbert to restart the line more >> quickly after it had been shutdown from 1951 to 1954 due to the Korean >> War. >> >> If you are interested in seeing some side by side comparisons of the >> Varney and Gilbert cars of the same number, take a look at the car >> numbers below, as well as 517, 518, and 525 on the Gilbert HO index. >> www.gilbertho.org >> >> Dale Smith >> >> On 11/16/2011 4:33 PM, DOM ST.JOHN wrote: >> > Yes, the new line in 1955 had Varney supplied cars. They were the 501 >> > CB&Q hopper. The 510 Manon Hopper. The 500 Gulf tank car and the 502 >> > MKT stock car. The Gilbert number will tell them apart from the Varney >> > line cars. Always look for the 500 series numbers or the 33500 series >> > numbers. Those are the Gilbert numbers. >> > Dom May one assume that Varney did NOT use the 500 series numbers on their OWN production? http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/album/70457017/pic/1234798461/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17696	From: earlyrail	Date: 11/17/2011
Subject: Unkown Combine - ID needed

I just posted a scan of an unknown combine to the photos section. Folder HRG This is of a combine. Sides are embossed card stock. Ends, Roof & Floor are all wood. Does anyone recognize this car? Trucks mfr? Our club received this and several other old items. Included were Globe/Athearn ART Reefer Laconia PRR mill gon Laconia B&M outside braced box car Varney? high side Erie gon (embossed cardstock sides and ends) Walthers diner The Model Railroad Shop, Dunellin, NJ 1941 Catalog. The catalog has been scanned and posted by HOSeeker <http://www.hoseeker.org/misccatalogs.html> scroll to the bottom to find it. Howard Garner Pickens, SC

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17697	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 11/17/2011
Subject: Re: Unkown Combine - ID needed

Hi Howard,     I could be way way off here cause my memory is getting real old but that looks like a Walthers cr that my unlce had, and aren't those the old Central Valley trucks? Jake Bechtel Gadsden, AL On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 4:40 PM, earlyrail <cascaderail@...> wrote: I just posted a scan of an unknown combine to the photos section.  Folder  HRG This is of a combine.  Sides are embossed card stock.  Ends, Roof & Floor are all wood. Does anyone recognize this car? Trucks mfr? Our club received this and several other old items. Included were Globe/Athearn ART Reefer Laconia PRR mill gon Laconia B&M outside braced box car Varney?  high side Erie gon (embossed cardstock sides and ends) Walthers diner The Model Railroad Shop, Dunellin, NJ 1941 Catalog.  The catalog has been scanned and posted by HOSeeker  <http://www.hoseeker.org/misccatalogs.html>  scroll to the bottom to find it. Howard Garner Pickens, SC ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings:    Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to:    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join    (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email:    vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com    vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:    vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17698	From: earlyrail	Date: 11/17/2011
Subject: Re: Unkown Combine - ID needed

I thought Walthers as well. But did Walthers do embossed cardstock? or just metal sides? Trucks are unsprung, all CV trucks that I know of are sprung. Howard Howard --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jacob Bechtel <jhbivusa@...> wrote: > > Hi Howard, > I could be way way off here cause my memory is getting real old but > that looks like a Walthers cr that my unlce had, and aren't those the old > Central Valley trucks? > > Jake Bechtel > Gadsden, AL > > > On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 4:40 PM, earlyrail <cascaderail@...>wrote: > > > I just posted a scan of an unknown combine to the photos section. Folder > > HRG > > > > This is of a combine. Sides are embossed card stock. Ends, Roof & Floor > > are all wood. > > > > Does anyone recognize this car? > > Trucks mfr? >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17699	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 11/17/2011
Subject: Re: Unkown Combine - ID needed

I can't say for certain, I don't have one to compare it with, but it COULD be a JC. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "earlyrail" <cascaderail@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2011 4:40 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Unkown Combine - ID needed >I just posted a scan of an unknown combine to the photos section. Folder >HRG > > This is of a combine. Sides are embossed card stock. Ends, Roof & Floor > are all wood. > > Does anyone recognize this car? > Trucks mfr? > > Our club received this and several other old items. > Included were > Globe/Athearn ART Reefer > Laconia PRR mill gon > Laconia B&M outside braced box car > Varney? high side Erie gon (embossed cardstock sides and ends) > Walthers diner > The Model Railroad Shop, Dunellin, NJ 1941 Catalog. > The catalog has been scanned and posted by HOSeeker > <http://www.hoseeker.org/misccatalogs.html> > scroll to the bottom to find it. > > Howard Garner > Pickens, SC > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17700	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 11/17/2011
Subject: Re: Unkown Combine - ID needed

Overall I too am thinking JC Models. Looks very similar to some cars I have. -Steve Neubaum --- On Thu, 11/17/11, Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote: From: Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Unkown Combine - ID needed To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, November 17, 2011, 6:13 PM   I can't say for certain, I don't have one to compare it with, but it COULD be a JC. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "earlyrail" <cascaderail@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2011 4:40 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Unkown Combine - ID needed >I just posted a scan of an unknown combine to the photos section. Folder >HRG > > This is of a combine. Sides are embossed card stock. Ends, Roof & Floor > are all wood. > > Does anyone recognize this car? > Trucks mfr? > > Our club received this and several other old items. > Included were > Globe/Athearn ART Reefer > Laconia PRR mill gon > Laconia B&M outside braced box car > Varney? high side Erie gon (embossed cardstock sides and ends) > Walthers diner > The Model Railroad Shop, Dunellin, NJ 1941 Catalog. > The catalog has been scanned and posted by HOSeeker > <http://www.hoseeker.org/misccatalogs.html> > scroll to the bottom to find it. > > Howard Garner > Pickens, SC > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17701	From: Dale Smith	Date: 11/17/2011
Subject: Re: Gilbert question

That's a good question and I think your assumption is correct.  I looked up the Varney Catalogs from that time period, 1955-1957, and the only cars that appear to be marketed by Varney in the road names found on the Gilbert products would be the Monon covered hopper (Gilbert 510-Varney H19), the Burlington hopper (Gilbert 501-Varney H15), and the Koppers tank car (Gilbert 518-Varney T7).  They didn't make an MKT stock car, a Gulf Tank car, or a B&O hopper.  The Varney cars generally use a prototype style number such as 188000 for the Burlington hopper but can also have the Varney number on the car, though I don't believe they always do. (link to Burlington hopper on hoseeker.net) One interesting fact about Gilbert's use of sub-contractors is that the product produced for Gilbert invariably was at least slightly different than the product marketed under the subcontractor's own name.   Either the colors were different or there was some other variation.  By the way, the Koppers tank car marketed by Varney was Red, as opposed to the black one produced for Gilbert.  Dale May one assume that Varney did NOT use the 500 series numbers on their OWN production? http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/album/70457017/pic/1234798461/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc Don Don Dellmann

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17702	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 11/17/2011
Subject: Re: Gilbert question

What I was driving at was that then I am guessing the "Varney" stock car in the picture I attached was most likely marketed by Gilbert. Thanks Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dale Smith" <dfsmith26@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, November 18, 2011 12:06 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Gilbert question > That's a good question and I think your assumption is correct. > > I looked up the Varney Catalogs from that time period, 1955-1957, and > the only cars that appear to be marketed by Varney in the road names > found on the Gilbert products would be the Monon covered hopper (Gilbert > 510-Varney H19), the Burlington hopper (Gilbert 501-Varney H15), and the > Koppers tank car (Gilbert 518-Varney T7). They didn't make an MKT stock > car, a Gulf Tank car, or a B&O hopper. The Varney cars generally use a > prototype style number such as 188000 for the Burlington hopper but can > also have the Varney number on the car, though I don't believe they > always do. (link to Burlington hopper > <http://www.hoseeker.net/gallery/index.php?album=varney-and-penn-line%2Fvarney-freight-cars&image=Varney_hm_cbq-188000_2.jpg> > on hoseeker.net) > > One interesting fact about Gilbert's use of sub-contractors is that the > product produced for Gilbert invariably was at least slightly different > than the product marketed under the subcontractor's own name. Either > the colors were different or there was some other variation. By the > way, the Koppers tank car marketed by Varney was Red, as opposed to the > black one produced for Gilbert. > > Dale > > May one assume that Varney did NOT use the 500 series numbers on their OWN >> >> production? >> >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/album/70457017/pic/1234798461/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc >> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/album/70457017/pic/1234798461/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc> >> >> Don >> >> Don Dellmann >> >> >> >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17703	From: dennyanspach	Date: 11/18/2011
Subject: Re: Unkown Combine - ID needed

That's a J-C car. They had embossed Bristol-board sides until the early '50s.   I believe the trucks are MDC; the steps and couplers Varney; and the diaphragms are MHP.  For the motivated modeler, the car could be easily re-kitted by immersion in acetone (removing plastic and similar items first), and then rebuilt into a quite presentable scale model that can hold its own amongst today's models.   Denny Denny S.  Anspach MD Sacramento

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17704	From: Dale Smith	Date: 11/18/2011
Subject: Re: Gilbert question

Don, Sorry, I missed the link to the stock car photo the first time around.   I think it's more than guessing.  You can definitely say that car was marketed by Gilbert, as I don't believe that Varney marketed an MKT stock car.  If you look at the photos on my website, www.gilbertho.org, Daryl Olszeski's cars demonstrate the differences between the Varney and Gilbert production and your car is definitely Varney.  The biggest distinguishing factor is the vertical slats on the door of the Gilbert car. Dale On 11/17/2011 10:21 PM, Don Dellmann wrote:   What I was driving at was that then I am guessing the "Varney" stock car in the picture I attached was most likely marketed by Gilbert. Thanks Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dale Smith" <dfsmith26@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, November 18, 2011 12:06 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Gilbert question > That's a good question and I think your assumption is correct. > > I looked up the Varney Catalogs from that time period, 1955-1957, and > the only cars that appear to be marketed by Varney in the road names > found on the Gilbert products would be the Monon covered hopper (Gilbert > 510-Varney H19), the Burlington hopper (Gilbert 501-Varney H15), and the > Koppers tank car (Gilbert 518-Varney T7). They didn't make an MKT stock > car, a Gulf Tank car, or a B&O hopper. The Varney cars generally use a > prototype style number such as 188000 for the Burlington hopper but can > also have the Varney number on the car, though I don't believe they > always do. (link to Burlington hopper > <http://www.hoseeker.net/gallery/index.php?album=varney-and-penn-line%2Fvarney-freight-cars&image=Varney_hm_cbq-188000_2.jpg> > on hoseeker.net) > > One interesting fact about Gilbert's use of sub-contractors is that the > product produced for Gilbert invariably was at least slightly different > than the product marketed under the subcontractor's own name. Either > the colors were different or there was some other variation. By the > way, the Koppers tank car marketed by Varney was Red, as opposed to the > black one produced for Gilbert. > > Dale > > May one assume that Varney did NOT use the 500 series numbers on their OWN >> >> production? >> >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/album/70457017/pic/1234798461/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc >> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/album/70457017/pic/1234798461/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc> >> >> Don >> >> Don Dellmann >> >> >> >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17705	From: rcjge	Date: 11/18/2011
Subject: Fleischmann Baldwin Switcher

Hey Guys, Does anyone know whether the Fleischmann Baldwin originally had Talgo couplers or body mounted ones? Thanks, Gareth

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17706	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 11/18/2011
Subject: Re: Fleischmann Baldwin Switcher

----- Original Message ----- From: "rcjge" <jgpedwards@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, November 18, 2011 6:56 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Fleischmann Baldwin Switcher > Hey Guys, > > Does anyone know whether the Fleischmann Baldwin originally had Talgo > couplers or body mounted ones? > > Thanks, > Gareth I only have the body shell from one of the original black ones, and it appears that the couplers were mounted to the body. There are two tapped holes on a flat space on each end, and I don't believe there was a frame. The trucks were held in by screws on each side riding in grooves on the truck casting (a common Fleischmann configuration). Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17707	From: rcjge	Date: 11/18/2011
Subject: Re: Fleischmann Baldwin Switcher

Hey Don: Could you send pick a pic of it upright and then flipped on it's back? Thanks, Gareth --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "rcjge" <jgpedwards@...> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, November 18, 2011 6:56 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Fleischmann Baldwin Switcher > > > > Hey Guys, > > > > Does anyone know whether the Fleischmann Baldwin originally had Talgo > > couplers or body mounted ones? > > > > Thanks, > > Gareth > > I only have the body shell from one of the original black ones, and it > appears that the couplers were mounted to the body. There are two tapped > holes on a flat space on each end, and I don't believe there was a frame. > The trucks were held in by screws on each side riding in grooves on the > truck casting (a common Fleischmann configuration). > > Don > > Don Dellmann > don.dellmann@... > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ > http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction > Owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17708	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 11/19/2011
Subject: Re: Fleischmann Baldwin Switcher

Sure, I'll get it to you later today. Don ----- Original Message ----- From: "rcjge" <jgpedwards@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, November 18, 2011 9:05 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Fleischmann Baldwin Switcher > Hey Don: > > Could you send pick a pic of it upright and then flipped on it's back? > > Thanks, > Gareth > > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote: >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "rcjge" <jgpedwards@...> >> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> >> Sent: Friday, November 18, 2011 6:56 PM >> Subject: [vintageHO] Fleischmann Baldwin Switcher >> >> >> > Hey Guys, >> > >> > Does anyone know whether the Fleischmann Baldwin originally had Talgo >> > couplers or body mounted ones? >> > >> > Thanks, >> > Gareth >> >> I only have the body shell from one of the original black ones, and it >> appears that the couplers were mounted to the body. There are two tapped >> holes on a flat space on each end, and I don't believe there was a frame. >> The trucks were held in by screws on each side riding in grooves on the >> truck casting (a common Fleischmann configuration). >> >> Don >> >> Don Dellmann >> don.dellmann@... >> http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ >> http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction >> Owner >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery >> > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17709	From: Howard R Garner	Date: 11/19/2011
Subject: Re: Unkown Combine - ID needed

> > That's a J-C car. They had embossed Bristol-board sides until the early '50s. > > I believe the trucks are MDC; the steps and couplers Varney; and the diaphragms are MHP. For the motivated modeler, the car could be easily re-kitted by immersion in acetone (removing plastic and similar items first), and then rebuilt into a quite presentable scale model that can hold its own amongst today's models. > > Denny Thanks, That;s the information I was looking for! Howard

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17710	From: rcjge	Date: 11/19/2011
Subject: Re: Fleischmann Baldwin Switcher

Hey Don: If you look in my Album you'll see pics of the Fleischmann I'm likely going to acquire... http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/album/297032596/pic/list One of them shows a version with talgo trucks/coupler, the other frame mounted. I can't figure out if one is "normal" as in unmodified or not, or whether over the production life this changed and they both are correct? Best, Gareth

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17711	From: rcjge	Date: 11/19/2011
Subject: Hobbytown Multi-drive diagram sought

Hey Guys; Does anyone on the list have a diagram of the Hobbytown Multi-drive system? Btw, if you have "one" of these and are looking to sell, contact me please.... Best, Gareth

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17712	From: rcjge	Date: 11/19/2011
Subject: Re: Hobbytown Multi-drive diagram sought

Just a note guys, this is not a drive shaft to the same diesels other truck but rather a drive shaft to another otherwise unpoowered locomotive. Thanks, Gareth

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17713	From: Glenn	Date: 11/19/2011
Subject: Re: Hobbytown Multi-drive diagram sought

I don't have the instructions, but I do have a couple of MD units. What do you need? The drive shafts extend outward from the gear box enough to hold a socket from another drive shaft. Drawbars couple the units. Glenn Joesten -----Original Message----- From: rcjge Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2011 2:49 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Hobbytown Multi-drive diagram sought Just a note guys, this is not a drive shaft to the same diesels other truck but rather a drive shaft to another otherwise unpoowered locomotive. Thanks, Gareth ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17714	From: corlissbs@aol.com	Date: 11/19/2011
Subject: Re: Hobbytown Multi-drive diagram sought

I have a set of them in a 3-unit Alco FA set.  The biggest Sagami can motor and flywheel, I could fit in the center unit, with drive to the two A-units, which were weighted very heavy.  Walks away with 100 cars easily.  I may still have the instruction sheets.  Although they haven't ran in 20 years, since I put my HO layout into hibernation.   Brad Smith Franklin, WI

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17715	From: dwaite2000	Date: 11/19/2011
Subject: A. Depippo

I picked up two early paper side kits today at a show. Manufacturer is A. Depippo, Hoxie, R.I. Both are box cars, PRR and N&W. Never heard of this company. Anyone have any information? Also found a VANS Great Northern box car kit. I should know the name but the little gray cells are on strike. Please refreshh my memory. Thanks, Dick

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17716	From: rcjge	Date: 11/19/2011
Subject: Re: Hobbytown Multi-drive diagram sought

Hey Brad: I'd really like to see the diagram. Want to see if it's possible to replicate. I have a powered HT PA and a Dummy I'd like to try this on. Btw, if you have the urge to sell let me know, OK? Besy, Gareth --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, corlissbs@... wrote: > > I have a set of them in a 3-unit Alco FA set. The biggest Sagami can > motor and flywheel, I could fit in the center unit, with drive to the two > A-units, which were weighted very heavy. Walks away with 100 cars easily. I > may still have the instruction sheets. Although they haven't ran in 20 > years, since I put my HO layout into hibernation. > > Brad Smith > Franklin, WI >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17717	From: jimbosul	Date: 11/19/2011
Subject: trucks for vintage Walthers passenger kits

I have collected a good number of the old Walthers passenger car kits, all without trucks. what would anybody recommend for 4 wheel and 6 wheel standard era trucks? thank you Jim Sullivan

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17718	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 11/19/2011
Subject: Re: trucks for vintage Walthers passenger kits

My Walthers cars are mostly riding on Central Valley trucks. I do have an early style set (with the heavier stamped sides that have only the belt rail, and no rivets), that ride on original Walthers "High Center" trucks. All else is, for the most part, on Central Valley trucks. As are my JC models cars. CV 4-wheel trucks also look good on Varney shorties too. -Steve Neubaum --- On Sat, 11/19/11, jimbosul <jsullivan4@...> wrote: From: jimbosul <jsullivan4@...> Subject: [vintageHO] trucks for vintage Walthers passenger kits To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, November 19, 2011, 8:30 PM   I have collected a good number of the old Walthers passenger car kits, all without trucks. what would anybody recommend for 4 wheel and 6 wheel standard era trucks? thank you Jim Sullivan

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17719	From: Lawrence	Date: 11/20/2011
Subject: Re: Fleischmann Baldwin Switcher

I had one of those beasts that I bought in high school in the 50s. It had body mounted Mantua type couplers, but I can't guarantee that's how it came from the factory. Dale in Spokane --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "rcjge" <jgpedwards@...> wrote: > > Hey Don: > > If you look in my Album you'll see pics of the Fleischmann I'm likely going to acquire... > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/album/297032596/pic/list > > One of them shows a version with talgo trucks/coupler, the other frame mounted. I can't figure out if one is "normal" as in unmodified or not, or whether over the production life this changed and they both are correct? > > Best, > Gareth >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17720	From: corlissbs@aol.com	Date: 11/21/2011
Subject: Re: Hobbytown Multi-drive diagram sought

Gareth, I could not find the instructions, so they are gone.  There is not that much to replicate the drive.  The square brass drive shaft protrudes from 4 trucks.  A universal joint is on the shaft ends and a shaft connects the trucks.   Brad Smith Franklin, WI   In a message dated 11/19/2011 7:26:30 P.M. Central Standard Time, jgpedwards@... writes:   Hey Brad: I'd really like to see the diagram. Want to see if it's possible to replicate. I have a powered HT PA and a Dummy I'd like to try this on. Btw, if you have the urge to sell let me know, OK? Besy, Gareth

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17721	From: Fred Hultberg	Date: 11/21/2011
Subject: Interesting Link

I found this link in another - I think it was the B&O group. I found it fascinating...   http://americanoo.blogspot.com/2011/11/1939-peak-year-part-v-famoco-graceline.html   Fred hultberg(resident etching wizard, Fotocut®)

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17722	From: trainm7	Date: 11/21/2011
Subject: Re: Hobbytown Multi-drive diagram sought

Hobbytown kits came through with some of the drive shaft protruding out the ends of the gear box. the ends of gearboxes facing each other were then long enough to mount their universals. The ends of the shafts in the gear boxes toward the ends of the engines were also protuding out. You usually had to cut this end of the shaft so that it would not foul on the draft gear coupler mounts. On a Multidrive you would leave them uncut and permanently use a draw bar mounted above the shafts on the frame then connect the drive shafts with a set of the universals. In older kits before the universals came out the shafts were connected with rubber tubing and a short piece of 3/32 shaft.I have a couple of Multidrive sets a set of FTs and F7s.I am happy how they perform but I do like the flexibility of individual powered units. I will check to see if I have any instructions. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, corlissbs@... wrote: > > Gareth, I could not find the instructions, so they are gone. There is not > that much to replicate the drive. The square brass drive shaft protrudes > from 4 trucks. A universal joint is on the shaft ends and a shaft connects > the trucks. > > Brad Smith > Franklin, WI > > > In a message dated 11/19/2011 7:26:30 P.M. Central Standard Time, > jgpedwards@... writes: > > > > > Hey Brad: > > I'd really like to see the diagram. Want to see if it's possible to > replicate. I have a powered HT PA and a Dummy I'd like to try this on. Btw, if > you have the urge to sell let me know, OK? > > Besy, > Gareth >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17723	From: Glenn	Date: 11/21/2011
Subject: Re: Hobbytown Multi-drive diagram sought

I have two, ABBA sets of Varney F-3's--Lead A&B units have the Hobbytown Multi-Drive in die-cast bodies, trailing dummy B&A with plastic bodies. At one time I had 3 units driving off one motor--I used some motors that are about an inch in diameter and 1.5" ,long--only markings "Made in Holland" they are fairly slow. glenn joesten -----Original Message----- From: trainm7 Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 3:14 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Hobbytown Multi-drive diagram sought Hobbytown kits came through with some of the drive shaft protruding out the ends of the gear box. the ends of gearboxes facing each other were then long enough to mount their universals. The ends of the shafts in the gear boxes toward the ends of the engines were also protuding out. You usually had to cut this end of the shaft so that it would not foul on the draft gear coupler mounts. On a Multidrive you would leave them uncut and permanently use a draw bar mounted above the shafts on the frame then connect the drive shafts with a set of the universals. In older kits before the universals came out the shafts were connected with rubber tubing and a short piece of 3/32 shaft.I have a couple of Multidrive sets a set of FTs and F7s.I am happy how they perform but I do like the flexibility of individual powered units. I will check to see if I have any instructions. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, corlissbs@... wrote: > > Gareth, I could not find the instructions, so they are gone. There is > not > that much to replicate the drive. The square brass drive shaft protrudes > from 4 trucks. A universal joint is on the shaft ends and a shaft > connects > the trucks. > > Brad Smith > Franklin, WI > > > In a message dated 11/19/2011 7:26:30 P.M. Central Standard Time, > jgpedwards@... writes: > > > > > Hey Brad: > > I'd really like to see the diagram. Want to see if it's possible to > replicate. I have a powered HT PA and a Dummy I'd like to try this on. > Btw, if > you have the urge to sell let me know, OK? > > Besy, > Gareth > ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17724	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 11/21/2011
Subject: Re: A. Depippo

As far as I know, I believe A. Depippo produced only box car kits although I'm not absolutely sure on this. They started production pre-War, printing their sides on Swathmore board. I have them as manufacturing about 20 kits (20 different roadnames). They are as follows: ACL 40' Automobile Box Car #51347 BAR 40' Boxcar #69112 C&EI 40' Boxcar #64379 C&O 40' Boxcar #4848 C of G 40' Boxcar #4248 CN 40' Boxcar #471592 D&H 40' Boxcar #22568 ERIE 40' Boxcar #78249 GN 40' Boxcar #50628 LNE 40' Boxcar #8694 MP 40' Boxcar #32457 MEC 40' Boxcar #4822 N&W 40' Boxcar #46335 NH 40' Boxcar #85274 NP 40' Boxcar #9496 P.R.R. 40' Boxcar #78137 PRR 40' Boxcar #98375 Sou 40' Boxcar #12351 UP 40' Boxcar #183055 WAB 40' Boxcar #80376 Van's Car Shops -- Hollywood, CA -- started manufacturing their kits around 1956. They were similar in construction to Silver Streak, as they used scribed wood to produce their factory-printed sides. I won't list them here unless you need them, as they're much more numerous than Depippo. They produced reefer kits as well as boxcars, and offered roadnames in three different reporting numbers (similar to what Marker Light Models did). Ray F. W. </HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17725	From: rcjge	Date: 11/21/2011
Subject: Re: Hobbytown Multi-drive diagram sought

How do the trucks in the Motorless unit differ from a typical HT power truck? Also does the truck nearest the powered unit then connect to it's own forward truck? Best, Gareth --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "trainm7" <RAILRON1@...> wrote: > > Hobbytown kits came through with some of the drive shaft protruding out the ends of the gear box. the ends of gearboxes facing each other were then long enough to mount their universals. The ends of the shafts in the gear boxes toward the ends of the engines were also protuding out. You usually had to cut this end of the shaft so that it would not foul on the draft gear coupler mounts. On a Multidrive you would leave them uncut and permanently use a draw bar mounted above the shafts on the frame then connect the drive shafts with a set of the universals. In older kits before the universals came out the shafts were connected with rubber tubing and a short piece of 3/32 shaft.I have a couple of Multidrive sets a set of FTs and F7s.I am happy how they perform but I do like the flexibility of individual powered units. I will check to see if I have any instructions.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17726	From: Glenn	Date: 11/21/2011
Subject: Re: Hobbytown Multi-drive diagram sought

The truck at the cab end of the motor unit drives a tower that takes power to a low-level shaft that drives the wheels. The other trucks are all below frame level. gj -----Original Message----- From: rcjge Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 8:12 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Hobbytown Multi-drive diagram sought How do the trucks in the Motorless unit differ from a typical HT power truck? Also does the truck nearest the powered unit then connect to it's own forward truck? Best, Gareth --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "trainm7" <RAILRON1@...> wrote: > > Hobbytown kits came through with some of the drive shaft protruding out > the ends of the gear box. the ends of gearboxes facing each other were > then long enough to mount their universals. The ends of the shafts in the > gear boxes toward the ends of the engines were also protuding out. You > usually had to cut this end of the shaft so that it would not foul on the > draft gear coupler mounts. On a Multidrive you would leave them uncut and > permanently use a draw bar mounted above the shafts on the frame then > connect the drive shafts with a set of the universals. In older kits > before the universals came out the shafts were connected with rubber > tubing and a short piece of 3/32 shaft.I have a couple of Multidrive sets > a set of FTs and F7s.I am happy how they perform but I do like the > flexibility of individual powered units. I will check to see if I have any > instructions. ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17727	From: Richard	Date: 11/22/2011
Subject: Re: Hobbytown Multi-drive diagram sought

Gareth, You might try contacting Howard Mosley at: http://home.comcast.net/~bearbon/site/?/home/ He has re-opened his web-site to sell off his remaining stock of Hobbytown parts and he does list various vintage diagrams also. Richard in Vermont --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "rcjge" <jgpedwards@...> wrote: > > Hey Guys; > > Does anyone on the list have a diagram of the Hobbytown Multi-drive system? > > Btw, if you have "one" of these and are looking to sell, contact me please.... > > Best, > Gareth >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17728	From: acace@juno.com	Date: 11/22/2011
Subject: Re: A. Depippo

Ray, Thanks for the detailed report. Having lived in the Boston area my whole life I'm suprissed to learn of a manufacturer I hadn't heard of before. Btw, Hoxie, RI (the address on the package) doesn't exist as far as I can determine. Btw, the car numbers of the two kits I bought (PRR and N&W) match your list. Regards, Dick

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17729	From: Glenn	Date: 11/22/2011
Subject: Hobbytown Multidrive

Gareth—Tomorrow (Wednesday) weather permitting—my digital photographer will be coming to shoot pix of the drive in my Varneye/Hobbytown F-3’s.   give me one or more emails with the return address(es) you would like me to send the pictures to.  I have them out--   glenn joesten glenn476@...

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17730	From: Charlie	Date: 11/22/2011
Subject: Re: Hobbytown Multidrive

Hi   Wow.  I would like a copy too.  Would like to do something similiar and will get parts off the site given yesterday.   Charlie     From: Glenn Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2011 1:48 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Hobbytown Multidrive   Gareth—Tomorrow (Wednesday) weather permitting—my digital photographer will be coming to shoot pix of the drive in my Varneye/Hobbytown F-3’s.   give me one or more emails with the return address(es) you would like me to send the pictures to.  I have them out--   glenn joesten glenn476@...

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17731	From: Glenn	Date: 11/22/2011
Subject: Re: Hobbytown Multidrive

will attachments go thru?  I thought Yahoo stripped them off—which is why I asked for address.  gj   From: Charlie Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2011 4:53 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Hobbytown Multidrive   Hi   Wow.  I would like a copy too.  Would like to do something similiar and will get parts off the site given yesterday.   Charlie       From: Glenn Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2011 1:48 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Hobbytown Multidrive     Gareth—Tomorrow (Wednesday) weather permitting—my digital photographer will be coming to shoot pix of the drive in my Varneye/Hobbytown F-3’s.   give me one or more emails with the return address(es) you would like me to send the pictures to.  I have them out--   glenn joesten glenn476@...

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17732	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 11/23/2011
Subject: Re: Hobbytown Multidrive

Attachments are allowed as long as they are only .jpg or .pdf files. Yahoo doesn't strip them automatically, it depends on how the listowner (me) has it set up. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "Glenn" <glenn476@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2011 1:51 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Hobbytown Multidrive will attachments go thru? I thought Yahoo stripped them off—which is why I asked for address. gj From: Charlie Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2011 4:53 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Hobbytown Multidrive Hi Wow. I would like a copy too. Would like to do something similiar and will get parts off the site given yesterday. Charlie From: Glenn Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2011 1:48 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Hobbytown Multidrive Gareth—Tomorrow (Wednesday) weather permitting—my digital photographer will be coming to shoot pix of the drive in my Varneye/Hobbytown F-3’s. give me one or more emails with the return address(es) you would like me to send the pictures to. I have them out-- glenn joesten glenn476@...

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17733	From: rcjge	Date: 11/23/2011
Subject: Re: Hobbytown Multi-drive diagram sought

Hey guys; I found a diagram on the bearbon site. The proper term is "Dual-Drive" not "Multi-Drive". -Gareth

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17734	From: Glenn	Date: 11/23/2011
Subject: Re: Hobbytown Multi-drive diagram sought

I think that generally "dual drive" meant that both trucks on a single unit were powered. This was fairly consistent terminology throughout ther industry. Single drive generally meant $5-10 lower price. "Multi-Drive" in Hobbytown meant more than one unit driven from a single motor. gj -----Original Message----- From: rcjge Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2011 9:35 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Hobbytown Multi-drive diagram sought Hey guys; I found a diagram on the bearbon site. The proper term is "Dual-Drive" not "Multi-Drive". -Gareth ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17735	From: Glenn	Date: 11/23/2011
Subject: Re: Hobbytown Multidrive

OK--I will be trying the hoppytown pix at about 2pm PDT. gj -----Original Message----- From: Don Dellmann Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2011 12:43 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Hobbytown Multidrive Attachments are allowed as long as they are only .jpg or .pdf files. Yahoo doesn't strip them automatically, it depends on how the listowner (me) has it set up. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "Glenn" <glenn476@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2011 1:51 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Hobbytown Multidrive will attachments go thru? I thought Yahoo stripped them off—which is why I asked for address. gj From: Charlie Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2011 4:53 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Hobbytown Multidrive Hi Wow. I would like a copy too. Would like to do something similiar and will get parts off the site given yesterday. Charlie From: Glenn Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2011 1:48 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Hobbytown Multidrive Gareth—Tomorrow (Wednesday) weather permitting—my digital photographer will be coming to shoot pix of the drive in my Varneye/Hobbytown F-3’s. give me one or more emails with the return address(es) you would like me to send the pictures to. I have them out-- glenn joesten glenn476@... ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17736	From: Glenn	Date: 11/23/2011
Subject: Hobbytown Multidrive

Got  the pix of the hobbytown drive—will send as attachment to word document. glenn

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17737	From: Glenn	Date: 11/23/2011
Subject: hobbytown multidrive

Attachments : will be sending the pix of the drive.gj   Glennn’s Hobby Town VIEW SLIDE SHOW DOWNLOAD ALL This album has 10 photos and will be available on SkyDrive until 2/21/2012.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17738	From: Charlie	Date: 11/23/2011
Subject: Re: Hobbytown Multidrive

Hi   Send to     railroads@...   Thks   Charlie       From: Glenn Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2011 8:51 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Hobbytown Multidrive   will attachments go thru?  I thought Yahoo stripped them off—which is why I asked for address.  gj   From: Charlie Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2011 4:53 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Hobbytown Multidrive   Hi   Wow.  I would like a copy too.  Would like to do something similiar and will get parts off the site given yesterday.   Charlie       From: Glenn Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2011 1:48 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Hobbytown Multidrive     Gareth—Tomorrow (Wednesday) weather permitting—my digital photographer will be coming to shoot pix of the drive in my Varneye/Hobbytown F-3’s.   give me one or more emails with the return address(es) you would like me to send the pictures to.  I have them out--   glenn joesten glenn476@...

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17739	From: Glenn	Date: 11/23/2011
Subject: Re: Hobbytown Multidrive

well--we sent the picture files from whatever I had--if it doesn't go thru--Gareth *(or whoever wanted the info) can give me an address to where I can send a flash drive--gj -----Original Message----- From: Glenn Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2011 11:18 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Hobbytown Multidrive OK--I will be trying the hoppytown pix at about 2pm PDT. gj -----Original Message----- From: Don Dellmann Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2011 12:43 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Hobbytown Multidrive Attachments are allowed as long as they are only .jpg or .pdf files. Yahoo doesn't strip them automatically, it depends on how the listowner (me) has it set up. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "Glenn" <glenn476@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2011 1:51 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Hobbytown Multidrive will attachments go thru? I thought Yahoo stripped them off—which is why I asked for address. gj From: Charlie Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2011 4:53 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Hobbytown Multidrive Hi Wow. I would like a copy too. Would like to do something similiar and will get parts off the site given yesterday. Charlie From: Glenn Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2011 1:48 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Hobbytown Multidrive Gareth—Tomorrow (Wednesday) weather permitting—my digital photographer will be coming to shoot pix of the drive in my Varneye/Hobbytown F-3’s. give me one or more emails with the return address(es) you would like me to send the pictures to. I have them out-- glenn joesten glenn476@... ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17740	From: rcjge	Date: 11/23/2011
Subject: Re: Hobbytown Multidrive

Hey Glenn: Got `em and they are great! Thanks have to see if I can replicate....perhaps a Dual-drive is among the things the owner of the HT brand still has to sell!? -Gareth --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Glenn" <glenn476@...> wrote: > > well--we sent the picture files from whatever I had--if it doesn't go > thru--Gareth *(or whoever wanted the info) can give me an address to where > I can send a flash drive--gj

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17741	From: Glenn	Date: 11/23/2011
Subject: Re: Hobbytown Multidrive

Micro Mark has the identical universal joints. you can see the top of the front truck--below the frame--same position as the gear tower on the motorized unit. trailing dummy units are Varney plastic shells on Athearn chassis--gj -----Original Message----- From: rcjge Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2011 9:31 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Hobbytown Multidrive Hey Glenn: Got `em and they are great! Thanks have to see if I can replicate....perhaps a Dual-drive is among the things the owner of the HT brand still has to sell!? -Gareth --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Glenn" <glenn476@...> wrote: > > well--we sent the picture files from whatever I had--if it doesn't go > thru--Gareth *(or whoever wanted the info) can give me an address to > where > I can send a flash drive--gj ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17742	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 11/24/2011
Subject: OT Holiday greetings

I just want to break for a moment and wish all our members in the United States a Happy Thanksgiving. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17743	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 11/24/2011
Subject: Re: OT Holiday greetings

Don, and all, Happy Thanksgiving to all! I'm spending the morning at home working on my HO Scale layout. This afternoon I'm heading over to my dad's house for Thanksgiving dinner. Dad and I have an O gauge layout in his basement (I'm 3rd generation of Lionel railroader in the family - dad was a Lionel railroader when he was a kid, and his dad was into Lionel from the 1930s to the 1960s). Finishing some basswood buildings for the Lionel layout, and got some 2-rail prewar wood cars converted to 3-rail, so I'll be taking those over. On the Vintage HO front, today I'm finishing building a Walthers 6-6 Pullman that I got at Trainfest. I think Don and Mike Bauers saw that one among my finds. -Steve Neubaum --- On Thu, 11/24/11, Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote: From: Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> Subject: [vintageHO] OT Holiday greetings To: VintageHO@yahoogroups.com, SCENERY@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, November 24, 2011, 5:41 AM   I just want to break for a moment and wish all our members in the United States a Happy Thanksgiving. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17744	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 11/24/2011
Subject: Re: Gooble, Gooble

On 11/24/2011 10:28 AM, Jim Heckard wrote: > > Hi and Happy Thanksgiving to all. > > Since I'm off topic already I had my test done and there was a > few ( Endoscopy, colonoscopy, small bowel follow through, Setz Marker > test, numerous scans including a special angiogram done by CAT scan. > Results every test 100% OK with no Cancer or blockages. No Siliac or > Chron's (?) disease. Blood test OK but I still have lost 63 pounds in > 7 months. Isn't it nice to hear the words " We don't know " from a > well know hospital and trauma center. > > Won't be on site much. My interest is low even the trains. I > have rebuilt the Sampson powered rail car. A neat, odd engine . Put > the handrails on and decaled it and added a jewel for headlight. I > have to paint the handrails but either meds or nerves have my hands > shaking ( no Parkinsons ) that painting them now not a good idea. Hey > maybe there will be a small collection of junk trains up for sale. > > > Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17745	From: Donald R. Staton	Date: 11/24/2011
Subject: Re: Gooble, Gooble

Hey Jim...  good news about no identifiable problems found after all of your tests...  Losing interest is understandable, happened to me too!  I am recovering from Congestive Heart Failure and I lost 56 pounds of fluid weight.  Getting old is often a battle against things we never experienced before.  Do the best you can. recovery is slow but I pray it will come for you. Grace and Peace...  Don Staton in VA. -------------------------------------------------------------------- On 11/24/2011 10:30 AM, Jim Heckard wrote:   On 11/24/2011 10:28 AM, Jim Heckard wrote: > > Hi and Happy Thanksgiving to all. > > Since I'm off topic already I had my test done and there was a > few ( Endoscopy, colonoscopy, small bowel follow through, Setz Marker > test, numerous scans including a special angiogram done by CAT scan. > Results every test 100% OK with no Cancer or blockages. No Siliac or > Chron's (?) disease. Blood test OK but I still have lost 63 pounds in > 7 months. Isn't it nice to hear the words " We don't know " from a > well know hospital and trauma center. > > Won't be on site much. My interest is low even the trains. I > have rebuilt the Sampson powered rail car. A neat, odd engine . Put > the handrails on and decaled it and added a jewel for headlight. I > have to paint the handrails but either meds or nerves have my hands > shaking ( no Parkinsons ) that painting them now not a good idea. Hey > maybe there will be a small collection of junk trains up for sale. > > > Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17746	From: Garry Spear	Date: 11/24/2011
Subject: Fwd: Penn Line RDG Crusader & Mantua RDG Atlantic & Pacific Kit Phot

A friend is selling these three locos, and I thought this group might be interested in some pictures. 1) A Penn Line RDG Crusader.  This was assembled poorly when purchased, then disassembled, cleaned, repainted; but never reassembled.  Not the original box, this is a PRR T-1 Box. http://choose.site40.net/CrusaderBoxTop.jpg http://choose.site40.net/Crusader.jpg 2 & 3) Mantua Brass Boilered RDG Atlantic & Pacific New Kits. http://choose.site40.net/BoxEnds.jpg http://choose.site40.net/Manual.jpg http://choose.site40.net/AtlanticKit.jpg http://choose.site40.net/PacificKit.jpg These pictures are for public use.  I have higher resolution pictures if somebody wants copies. Garrett (garry) Spear

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17747	From: Glenn	Date: 11/24/2011
Subject: Re: HT multi-drive units

Thinking about those Hobbytown/Varney units—I realized I haven’t run them for years—could consider selling both ABBA sets—each set has Varney Zamak AB with the Hobbytown Multi-drive—“Holland” can motor, and Emrex Mars Light units, Painted D&RGW—one set in the as-delivered Black & yellow, the other in 4-stripe Aspen Gold and Silver..  Trailing dummy BA units are matching Varney plastic units on Athearn chassis—I’d like to get $100 for each set—plus shipping.  Offers considered.   Glenn Joesten glenn476@...   From: J. Gareth Edwards Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2011 6:50 AM To: glenn476@... Subject: HT multi-drive units   Hi Glenn: Do you have any pics? It's hard to figure what I need until I see the unit. I've only ever seen a picture of the setup on the track joining two HT E units. The pic didn't afford a decent view. Best, Gareth -- "Totus tangens mos servo"

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17748	From: William Anderson	Date: 11/24/2011
Subject: Re: Fwd: Penn Line RDG Crusader & Mantua RDG Atlantic & Pacific Kit

How about some info as to the specific locos/tenders being offered, the respective asking price and terms of sale.----- Original Message ----- From: Garry Spear To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2011 12:44 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Fwd: Penn Line RDG Crusader & Mantua RDG Atlantic & Pacific Kit Photos   A friend is selling these three locos, and I thought this group might be interested in some pictures. 1) A Penn Line RDG Crusader.  This was assembled poorly when purchased, then disassembled, cleaned, repainted; but never reassembled.  Not the original box, this is a PRR T-1 Box. http://choose.site40.net/CrusaderBoxTop.jpg http://choose.site40.net/Crusader.jpg 2 & 3) Mantua Brass Boilered RDG Atlantic & Pacific New Kits. http://choose.site40.net/BoxEnds.jpg http://choose.site40.net/Manual.jpg http://choose.site40.net/AtlanticKit.jpg http://choose.site40.net/PacificKit.jpg These pictures are for public use.  I have higher resolution pictures if somebody wants copies. Garrett (garry) Spear

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17749	From: acace@juno.com	Date: 11/24/2011
Subject: Re: A. Depippo

Ray, Took a closer look at my VANS kit. The blue print is dated 1939 but the kit seems newer. Interesting. Regards, Dick

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17750	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 11/24/2011
Subject: Re: Penn Line RDG Crusader & Mantua RDG Atlantic & Pacific Kit Photo

I noticed the simplicity of the steamer frame for the Crusader model in his image....... In fact, I was shocked at how it could be one of the easier frames to be made by a decent hobbyist today with a drill-press or perhaps someone lucky enough to have a mill. http://choose.site40.net/Crusader.jpg And take a good look at the lead truck in the kit. Again, there is that nice simplicity of design. I know how we prefer to have the original parts to restore vintage models. But looking at those kit parts makes me think of how vintage construction methods would also serve to bring back to service vintage basket case models. Mike Bauers On Nov 24, 2011, at 12:32 PM, William Anderson wrote: > > > How about some info as to the specific locos/tenders being offered, the respective asking price and terms of sale.----- Original Message ----- > From: Garry Spear > > > A friend is selling these three locos, and I thought this group might be interested in some pictures. > > 1) A Penn Line RDG Crusader. This was assembled poorly when purchased, then disassembled, cleaned, repainted; but never reassembled. Not the original box, this is a PRR T-1 Box. > > http://choose.site40.net/CrusaderBoxTop.jpg > http://choose.site40.net/Crusader.jpg > > 2 & 3) Mantua Brass Boilered RDG Atlantic & Pacific New Kits. > > http://choose.site40.net/BoxEnds.jpg > http://choose.site40.net/Manual.jpg > http://choose.site40.net/AtlanticKit.jpg > http://choose.site40.net/PacificKit.jpg > > These pictures are for public use. I have higher resolution pictures if somebody wants copies. > > Garrett (garry) Spear

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17751	From: Jim Waterman	Date: 11/27/2011
Subject: Re: Gooble, Gooble

Jim Now that the tests are back (and sounds pretty good), hoping that you'll soon feel better and get back into it! Regards Jim Waterman

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17752	From: wdavis5069	Date: 11/27/2011
Subject: Re: Ohio Seamless Tube car

I realize this topic is a year old, but I just found this group. I was specifically looking for information about the Varney OSTX gon. I purchased one at a show about 4 years ago. For some reason I had to have it. Maybe it was because I live in Ohio. I don't ever remember seeing one before. Mine is missing the arch which I didn't know until I stumbled upon this thread. After learning that I did a closer inspection and found traces of glue in one small corner. Although the car is in otherwise perfect condition, a previous owner has painted the underframe, ribs, top and bottom chord black. It was done very neatly and when I bought the car I was not sure it wasn't done that way at the factory. Now I know otherwise. There was mention on the list of someone producing decals to model the car from a correct length gon. Did this happen? I would be interested in obtaining a set or maybe two. Wil Davis --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "John H" <sprinthag@...> wrote: > > Merry Christmas to all!! > > The box insert is cutout to clear the arch on one end of the OSTUCO car so I would say it is for one of these cars. > > And I agree with Don that this is one of the best, if not the best, groups on the web. > > John Hagen > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Riverboy <river_dweller_ohio@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Group, > > With all this talk of the Ohio Seamless Tube car, I thought  I'd look on eBay as sort of a joke. No car available right now, but there is what appears to be a box for one if someone needs one. The words "Ohio Seamless" are hand written, so I'm not sure if it is actually an official original box or not. It is item #350367941551 for those who want to look. > > Tod > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17753	From: Mike Sloane	Date: 11/27/2011
Subject: Re: Ohio Seamless Tube car

Someone did make decals for the car, and I am sure that he will get in touch with you. As far as the "arch" over the open end, I am sure that you could make a credible one out of standard structural "beams" like the ones sold by Plastruct, Inc. <http://plastruct.com/> If you would like close up images of my Varney car, send me a note off-line at <mikesloane@...> I also posted a scanned copy of the original article in the "files" section of this group. <http://public.fotki.com/mikesloane/vintage-model-rr/revellenginehouse.html> Mike On 11/27/2011 3:42 PM, wdavis5069 wrote: > I realize this topic is a year old, but I just found this group. I was > specifically looking for information about the Varney OSTX gon. I > purchased one at a show about 4 years ago. For some reason I had to have > it. Maybe it was because I live in Ohio. I don't ever remember seeing > one before. Mine is missing the arch which I didn't know until I > stumbled upon this thread. After learning that I did a closer inspection > and found traces of glue in one small corner. Although the car is in > otherwise perfect condition, a previous owner has painted the > underframe, ribs, top and bottom chord black. It was done very neatly > and when I bought the car I was not sure it wasn't done that way at the > factory. Now I know otherwise. There was mention on the list of someone > producing decals to model the car from a correct length gon. Did this > happen? I would be interested in obtaining a set or maybe two. > > Wil Davis >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17754	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 11/27/2011
Subject: Re: Ohio Seamless Tube car

----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Sloane" <mikesloane@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2011 3:54 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Ohio Seamless Tube car > Someone did make decals for the car, and I am sure that he will get in > touch with you. > > As far as the "arch" over the open end, I am sure that you could make a > credible one out of standard structural "beams" like the ones sold by > Plastruct, Inc. <http://plastruct.com/> > > If you would like close up images of my Varney car, send me a note > off-line at <mikesloane@...> I also posted a scanned copy of > the original article in the "files" section of this group. > > <http://public.fotki.com/mikesloane/vintage-model-rr/revellenginehouse.html> > > Mike > > On 11/27/2011 3:42 PM, wdavis5069 wrote: >> I realize this topic is a year old, but I just found this group. I was >> specifically looking for information about the Varney OSTX gon. I >> purchased one at a show about 4 years ago. For some reason I had to have >> it. Maybe it was because I live in Ohio. I don't ever remember seeing >> one before. Mine is missing the arch which I didn't know until I >> stumbled upon this thread. After learning that I did a closer inspection >> and found traces of glue in one small corner. Although the car is in >> otherwise perfect condition, a previous owner has painted the >> underframe, ribs, top and bottom chord black. It was done very neatly >> and when I bought the car I was not sure it wasn't done that way at the >> factory. Now I know otherwise. There was mention on the list of someone >> producing decals to model the car from a correct length gon. Did this >> happen? I would be interested in obtaining a set or maybe two. >> >> Wil Davis Here's my original http://tinyurl.com/89xuqat And a Varney done with the Decals http://tinyurl.com/ch2mou5 I don't know if John has any left, but he is on the list and will see this. It's always been one of my favorite cars, and one I've wanted since I first saw it at the old Hobby Horse hobby shop in Waukesha WI in 1960. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17755	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 11/27/2011
Subject: Re: Ohio Seamless Tube car

Hi Don, Nice job on the 42 footer using John's decals.  They really are nice aren't they? I already did one for the Walthers USRA 47 ft. gondola.   am sure you have seen it in the photos section.  Now I am getting ready to do a 42 foot, ala Varney.  I picked up a couple of 42 ft gondolas at a train show cheap.  REAL CHEAP.  I am almost 100 % certain these are either Varney cars or at the very least Varney molds.  The are identical to my Varney Ohio Seamless Tube car, except they are lettered fro NYC, Michigan Central.  I will keep one stock, since it is kind of unique and in pretty good condition.  The other is on it way to become an OSTUCO car.  I removed the lettering, (WHAT A CHORE) and the B end of the gon.  I just need to make the loading structure and guard rail, paint and decal.  I hope to have it done before New Years.  (good luck with that huh?) Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: don.dellmann@... Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 17:05:01 -0600 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Ohio Seamless Tube car   ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Sloane" <mikesloane@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2011 3:54 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Ohio Seamless Tube car > Someone did make decals for the car, and I am sure that he will get in > touch with you. > > As far as the "arch" over the open end, I am sure that you could make a > credible one out of standard structural "beams" like the ones sold by > Plastruct, Inc. <http://plastruct.com/> > > If you would like close up images of my Varney car, send me a note > off-line at <mikesloane@...> I also posted a scanned copy of > the original article in the "files" section of this group. > > <http://public.fotki.com/mikesloane/vintage-model-rr/revellenginehouse.html> > > Mike > > On 11/27/2011 3:42 PM, wdavis5069 wrote: >> I realize this topic is a year old, but I just found this group. I was >> specifically looking for information about the Varney OSTX gon. I >> purchased one at a show about 4 years ago. For some reason I had to have >> it. Maybe it was because I live in Ohio. I don't ever remember seeing >> one before. Mine is missing the arch which I didn't know until I >> stumbled upon this thread. After learning that I did a closer inspection >> and found traces of glue in one small corner. Although the car is in >> otherwise perfect condition, a previous owner has painted the >> underframe, ribs, top and bottom chord black. It was done very neatly >> and when I bought the car I was not sure it wasn't done that way at the >> factory. Now I know otherwise. There was mention on the list of someone >> producing decals to model the car from a correct length gon. Did this >> happen? I would be interested in obtaining a set or maybe two. >> >> Wil Davis Here's my original http://tinyurl.com/89xuqat And a Varney done with the Decals http://tinyurl.com/ch2mou5 I don't know if John has any left, but he is on the list and will see this. It's always been one of my favorite cars, and one I've wanted since I first saw it at the old Hobby Horse hobby shop in Waukesha WI in 1960. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17756	From: Russ Shiel	Date: 11/27/2011
Subject: Kar-Line inventory

H'lo All...there was a thread last year on the specialist road cars produced in the 70's under the Kar-Line brand, but I don't recall seeing mention of a catalog or inventory of the line being produced. Does anyone know if such a catalog was available? Ray W? I have a Sept 72 ad from RMC for their GN boxcar, $7.25 at the time. I had been watching a couple of Kar-Line GN cars on offer recently, and was a tad surprised when they went >$50! A quick search of other auctions shows that Kar-Line boxcars are generally in the $20-30 range, but a few of the ?rarer flags are going >$100. I gather that these are limited production road names? Any advice on the range appreciated! Thanks, Russ

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17757	From: John H	Date: 11/27/2011
Subject: Re: Ohio Seamless Tube car

Group, I don't think I have any complete sets in stock right now. However, I can and will print some more (I don't even have a set to do my own car). Anyone who may be interested please contact me off list. Thank you guys for your nice comments. John Hagen --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > Here's my original > > http://tinyurl.com/89xuqat > > And a Varney done with the Decals > > http://tinyurl.com/ch2mou5 > > I don't know if John has any left, but he is on the list and will see this. > > It's always been one of my favorite cars, and one I've wanted since I first > saw it at the old Hobby Horse hobby shop in Waukesha WI in 1960. > > Don > > Don Dellmann > don.dellmann@... > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ > http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction > Owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17758	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 11/27/2011
Subject: Re: Kar-Line inventory

Hi Russ,   I have the 1972-1973 order form in front of me now.  They list 408 different lettering schemes.  The $7.25 GN car was done in 23 different numbers and two colors.  That might help explain the higher price for it.  It is Cat # 259.  Just three other schemes were done in multiple numbers.   Take care,   Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Russ Shiel Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2011 9:54 PM To: vintageHO@... Subject: [vintageHO] Kar-Line inventory     H'lo All...there was a thread last year on the specialist road cars produced in the 70's under the Kar-Line brand, but I don't recall seeing mention of a catalog or inventory of the line being produced. Does anyone know if such a catalog was available? Ray W? I have a Sept 72 ad from RMC for their GN boxcar, $7.25 at the time. I had been watching a couple of Kar-Line GN cars on offer recently, and was a tad surprised when they went >$50! A quick search of other auctions shows that Kar-Line boxcars are generally in the $20-30 range, but a few of the ?rarer flags are going >$100. I gather that these are limited production road names? Any advice on the range appreciated! Thanks, Russ

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17759	From: boxcar4willhe	Date: 11/27/2011
Subject: Tractors as flat car load, photos

Hi all, Notification of additions to photo section in the Walker, Lon's Trains album. These were ebay tractors that I think fit fairly well on an American Flyer flat car. Thanks for looking. Lon Walker http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/album/959215047/pic/1901928381/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17760	From: wdavis5069	Date: 11/27/2011
Subject: Re: Ohio Seamless Tube car

Thanks for the offer, but I found the original article after reading the old posts. I will probably make the arch, but I am not sure how to remove the black paint. I probably can't. Wil --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Mike Sloane <mikesloane@...> wrote: > > Someone did make decals for the car, and I am sure that he will get in > touch with you. > > As far as the "arch" over the open end, I am sure that you could make a > credible one out of standard structural "beams" like the ones sold by > Plastruct, Inc. <http://plastruct.com/> > > If you would like close up images of my Varney car, send me a note > off-line at <mikesloane@...> I also posted a scanned copy of > the original article in the "files" section of this group. > > <http://public.fotki.com/mikesloane/vintage-model-rr/revellenginehouse.html> > > Mike > > On 11/27/2011 3:42 PM, wdavis5069 wrote: > > I realize this topic is a year old, but I just found this group. I was > > specifically looking for information about the Varney OSTX gon. I > > purchased one at a show about 4 years ago. For some reason I had to have > > it. Maybe it was because I live in Ohio. I don't ever remember seeing > > one before. Mine is missing the arch which I didn't know until I > > stumbled upon this thread. After learning that I did a closer inspection > > and found traces of glue in one small corner. Although the car is in > > otherwise perfect condition, a previous owner has painted the > > underframe, ribs, top and bottom chord black. It was done very neatly > > and when I bought the car I was not sure it wasn't done that way at the > > factory. Now I know otherwise. There was mention on the list of someone > > producing decals to model the car from a correct length gon. Did this > > happen? I would be interested in obtaining a set or maybe two. > > > > Wil Davis > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17761	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 11/27/2011
Subject: Re: Ohio Seamless Tube car

I didn't bother with making an end on the new car, because Varney actually made them that way in the later years. I got two sets of John's decals, so I'm not done yet, I'm sure there'll be a few more in the fleet. I only have one of the Michigan Central cars, so that stays the same, but it seems the Green EJ&E cars are like zucchini. Every time I turn around I have more of them :-) Don ----- Original Message ----- From: "Victor Bitleris" <bitlerisvj@...> To: <vintageho@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2011 8:27 PM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: Ohio Seamless Tube car Hi Don, Nice job on the 42 footer using John's decals. They really are nice aren't they? I already did one for the Walthers USRA 47 ft. gondola. am sure you have seen it in the photos section. Now I am getting ready to do a 42 foot, ala Varney. I picked up a couple of 42 ft gondolas at a train show cheap. REAL CHEAP. I am almost 100 % certain these are either Varney cars or at the very least Varney molds. The are identical to my Varney Ohio Seamless Tube car, except they are lettered fro NYC, Michigan Central. I will keep one stock, since it is kind of unique and in pretty good condition. The other is on it way to become an OSTUCO car. I removed the lettering, (WHAT A CHORE) and the B end of the gon. I just need to make the loading structure and guard rail, paint and decal. I hope to have it done before New Years. (good luck with that huh?) Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: don.dellmann@... Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 17:05:01 -0600 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Ohio Seamless Tube car ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Sloane" <mikesloane@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2011 3:54 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Ohio Seamless Tube car > Someone did make decals for the car, and I am sure that he will get in > touch with you. > > As far as the "arch" over the open end, I am sure that you could make a > credible one out of standard structural "beams" like the ones sold by > Plastruct, Inc. <http://plastruct.com/> > > If you would like close up images of my Varney car, send me a note > off-line at <mikesloane@...> I also posted a scanned copy of > the original article in the "files" section of this group. > > <http://public.fotki.com/mikesloane/vintage-model-rr/revellenginehouse.html> > > Mike > > On 11/27/2011 3:42 PM, wdavis5069 wrote: >> I realize this topic is a year old, but I just found this group. I was >> specifically looking for information about the Varney OSTX gon. I >> purchased one at a show about 4 years ago. For some reason I had to have >> it. Maybe it was because I live in Ohio. I don't ever remember seeing >> one before. Mine is missing the arch which I didn't know until I >> stumbled upon this thread. After learning that I did a closer inspection >> and found traces of glue in one small corner. Although the car is in >> otherwise perfect condition, a previous owner has painted the >> underframe, ribs, top and bottom chord black. It was done very neatly >> and when I bought the car I was not sure it wasn't done that way at the >> factory. Now I know otherwise. There was mention on the list of someone >> producing decals to model the car from a correct length gon. Did this >> happen? I would be interested in obtaining a set or maybe two. >> >> Wil Davis Here's my original http://tinyurl.com/89xuqat And a Varney done with the Decals http://tinyurl.com/ch2mou5 I don't know if John has any left, but he is on the list and will see this. It's always been one of my favorite cars, and one I've wanted since I first saw it at the old Hobby Horse hobby shop in Waukesha WI in 1960. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17762	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 11/27/2011
Subject: Re: Kar-Line inventory

The only listing I have is a few pages from a catalog when Walthers was carrying the cars and putting a separate "Terminal Hobby Shop" catalog for lines they had to get through another distributor. It is far from complete, but I'll see if I can dig it up scan it. The earlier Karline cars were nice because they came with Kadees and Central Valley trucks. I believe in later years they stopped doing that (in part I believe because of the unavailability of CV's after George retired). They were nice cars, I've had a couple over the years. Don ----- Original Message ----- From: "Russ Shiel" <rshiel01@...> To: <vintageHO@...> Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2011 8:54 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Kar-Line inventory H'lo All...there was a thread last year on the specialist road cars produced in the 70's under the Kar-Line brand, but I don't recall seeing mention of a catalog or inventory of the line being produced. Does anyone know if such a catalog was available? Ray W? I have a Sept 72 ad from RMC for their GN boxcar, $7.25 at the time. I had been watching a couple of Kar-Line GN cars on offer recently, and was a tad surprised when they went >$50! A quick search of other auctions shows that Kar-Line boxcars are generally in the $20-30 range, but a few of the ?rarer flags are going >$100. I gather that these are limited production road names? Any advice on the range appreciated! Thanks, Russ

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17763	From: Mike Sloane	Date: 11/28/2011
Subject: Re: Tractors as flat car load, photos

I have a dozen or so images of actual tractors as flat car loads, taken from the Internet. If anyone would like them, contact me off-line at <mikesloane@..., and I will send them as Email attachments. Mike On 11/27/2011 10:46 PM, boxcar4willhe wrote: > Hi all, > > Notification of additions to photo section in the Walker, Lon's Trains > album. These were ebay tractors that I think fit fairly well on an > American Flyer flat car. Thanks for looking. Lon Walker > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/album/959215047/pic/1901928381/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/album/959215047/pic/1901928381/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc> >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17764	From: acace@juno.com	Date: 11/28/2011
Subject: Re: Kar-Line inventory

Good Morning All, I have a very detailed list compiled by a local collector of Kar-Line models. It shows 748 different cars. It's not my list so I don't think I should share it on-line. However, if anyone wants to check an entry I'll be glad to do what I can. Regards, Dick

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17765	From: wdavis5069	Date: 11/28/2011
Subject: Re: Kar-Line inventory

Could you possibly post a copy in the files section? Wil --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Chuck Higdon" <vze5crrw1@...> wrote: > > Hi Russ, > > > > I have the 1972-1973 order form in front of me now. They list 408 different > lettering schemes. The $7.25 GN car was done in 23 different numbers and > two colors. That might help explain the higher price for it. It is Cat # > 259. Just three other schemes were done in multiple numbers. > > > > Take care, > > > > Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at > http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104 > > > > _____ > > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf > Of Russ Shiel > Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2011 9:54 PM > To: vintageHO@... > Subject: [vintageHO] Kar-Line inventory > > > > > > H'lo All...there was a thread last year on the specialist road cars produced > in the 70's under the Kar-Line brand, but I don't recall seeing mention of a > catalog or inventory of the line being produced. Does anyone know if such a > catalog was available? Ray W? I have a Sept 72 ad from RMC for their GN > boxcar, $7.25 at the time. > > I had been watching a couple of Kar-Line GN cars on offer recently, and was > a tad surprised when they went >$50! A quick search of other auctions shows > that Kar-Line boxcars are generally in the $20-30 range, but a few of the > ?rarer flags are going >$100. I gather that these are limited production > road names? > > Any advice on the range appreciated! > > Thanks, Russ >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17766	From: acace@juno.com	Date: 11/28/2011
Subject: Re: Kar-Line inventory

There is a further complication to getting an all-time list. Another man I know contracted with Kar-Line many years ago to have a special run of numbers/color scheme made for him. I don't recall how many different numbers there were but if that was a common practice of Kar-Line it makes the possibilities almost endless. Dick

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17767	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 11/28/2011
Subject: Re: Kar-Line inventory

Yes, before the end of December it will be done.   Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of wdavis5069 Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 9:12 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Kar-Line inventory     Could you possibly post a copy in the files section? Wil --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Chuck Higdon" <vze5crrw1@...> wrote: > > Hi Russ, > > > > I have the 1972-1973 order form in front of me now. They list 408 different > lettering schemes. The $7.25 GN car was done in 23 different numbers and > two colors. That might help explain the higher price for it. It is Cat # > 259. Just three other schemes were done in multiple numbers. > > > > Take care, > > > > Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at > http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104 > > > > _____ > > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf > Of Russ Shiel > Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2011 9:54 PM > To: vintageHO@... > Subject: [vintageHO] Kar-Line inventory > > > > > > H'lo All...there was a thread last year on the specialist road cars produced > in the 70's under the Kar-Line brand, but I don't recall seeing mention of a > catalog or inventory of the line being produced. Does anyone know if such a > catalog was available? Ray W? I have a Sept 72 ad from RMC for their GN > boxcar, $7.25 at the time. > > I had been watching a couple of Kar-Line GN cars on offer recently, and was > a tad surprised when they went >$50! A quick search of other auctions shows > that Kar-Line boxcars are generally in the $20-30 range, but a few of the > ?rarer flags are going >$100. I gather that these are limited production > road names? > > Any advice on the range appreciated! > > Thanks, Russ >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17768	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 11/28/2011
Subject: Re: Ohio Seamless Tube car

My 42 ft. gondola is black, but it is cast in black plastic and does not appear to be painted.  I did have a lot of fun (UGH!) removing the lettering.  I felt I need to do that in order to get a proper base to paint the white primer on.  As it turned out, it wasn't too bad and took about 30 minutes.  I used very fine wet/dry sandpaper and used alcohol on the lettering, which acted as a lubricant.  It came off pretty decently using that method.  You really need to use white primer if you plan on painting the car Lemon Yellow as the prototype was. Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: wdavis5069@... Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 04:02:53 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Ohio Seamless Tube car   Thanks for the offer, but I found the original article after reading the old posts. I will probably make the arch, but I am not sure how to remove the black paint. I probably can't. Wil --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Mike Sloane <mikesloane@...> wrote: > > Someone did make decals for the car, and I am sure that he will get in > touch with you. > > As far as the "arch" over the open end, I am sure that you could make a > credible one out of standard structural "beams" like the ones sold by > Plastruct, Inc. <http://plastruct.com/> > > If you would like close up images of my Varney car, send me a note > off-line at <mikesloane@...> I also posted a scanned copy of > the original article in the "files" section of this group. > > <http://public.fotki.com/mikesloane/vintage-model-rr/revellenginehouse.html> > > Mike > > On 11/27/2011 3:42 PM, wdavis5069 wrote: > > I realize this topic is a year old, but I just found this group. I was > > specifically looking for information about the Varney OSTX gon. I > > purchased one at a show about 4 years ago. For some reason I had to have > > it. Maybe it was because I live in Ohio. I don't ever remember seeing > > one before. Mine is missing the arch which I didn't know until I > > stumbled upon this thread. After learning that I did a closer inspection > > and found traces of glue in one small corner. Although the car is in > > otherwise perfect condition, a previous owner has painted the > > underframe, ribs, top and bottom chord black. It was done very neatly > > and when I bought the car I was not sure it wasn't done that way at the > > factory. Now I know otherwise. There was mention on the list of someone > > producing decals to model the car from a correct length gon. Did this > > happen? I would be interested in obtaining a set or maybe two. > > > > Wil Davis > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17769	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 11/28/2011
Subject: Re: Kar-Line inventory

Hi Russ and Chuck, While there may be Kar-Line catalogs available, I don't know of any. Otherwise, lacking a catalog, the next best way to to follow what was manufactured would be to make use of the Order Forms -- which were upgraded as years went by, to include their latest production. I think that a hobbyist might need a fairly complete set of order forms, as Kar-Line may (?) have dropped some roads from production over the years (and added others), and one of the most important order forms to have would be the very last one that would show their production right up to the end -- but you'd need to first ones too. As you're probably aware, Kar-Line is not considered "vintage," in part because they were started only in the ' 70's -- yet, they are highly collectible today, not only because they are out of production, nor that that were produced starting about 35 years ago (a good length of time for new hobbyists going back to), but for their trademark paint finish, which to me looked as close to metal as one can paint a plastic car, and extremely close in appearance to the actual metal finish of the prototype steel box cars. For us older collectors, that period was like the day before yesterday (lol). As this manufacturer is not actually considered vintage, there was never one word printed about them by the HO Scale Collector's & History - NMRA SIG group in all the monthly Reporting Mark publications that were distributed -- and most of the members of the group were extremely serious collectors as you may well know. I just got done checking out the indexes of everything published by the Group. As I mentioned to Dick ("acace at juno.com") on here just a few minutes ago, off-line, I started buying them myself back in the ' 70's and '80's, many of them as new as I enjoy the excellent paint finish on these models. Most of the several dozen I've acquired are of local (northeastern) roads. Despite what Chuck has discovered about there being only three other roadname schemes done in multiple numbers (and I'd would appreciate knowing which roads are being referred to), many of the roads I have are in multiple numbers. Perhaps this is why Dick mentions there being at least 748 different kits. Some of the roads I have in multiple numbers are NYNH&H, ERIE, CNJ, NYC/P& LE, NYC Pacemaker and NYC Early Bird. I would suspect that at least some of my other schemes (such as PRR [Keystone] and possibly even NYC/Michigan Central) may have been done in multiple paint schemes, but as I wasn't actively "collecting" them at the time I wouldn't have known. In addition to several 40' NYC Early Bird cars, I also bought a 50' NYC Early Bird as new. Maybe if Dick chooses to post the list in the files, we may know much more about this line. Yes, I still follow what's being posted of Kar-Line on eBay, and am absolutely appalled at what some collectors are paying for most of these models being auctioned -- far out of reach of the ordinary collector of these types of models. I don't understand where they place that much value on them, even though they're apparently eagerly sought after -- and deservedly so. I don't know that it's necessarily the "rarer" flags that are commanding so much (they're all scarce today) as even flags that wouldn't seem especially rare are getting good prices. Too bad we didn't squirrel more of them away at the time they were selling for $7.25; it would have been a good retirement investment < g >. Ray Wetzel </HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17770	From: wdavis5069	Date: 11/28/2011
Subject: Re: Kar-Line inventory

Thank you. Wil --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Chuck Higdon" <vze5crrw1@...> wrote: > > Yes, before the end of December it will be done. > > > > Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at > http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104 > > > > _____ > > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf > Of wdavis5069 > Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 9:12 AM > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Kar-Line inventory > > > > > > Could you possibly post a copy in the files section? > > Wil > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com> , > "Chuck Higdon" <vze5crrw1@> wrote: > > > > Hi Russ, > > > > > > > > I have the 1972-1973 order form in front of me now. They list 408 > different > > lettering schemes. The $7.25 GN car was done in 23 different numbers and > > two colors. That might help explain the higher price for it. It is Cat # > > 259. Just three other schemes were done in multiple numbers. > > > > > > > > Take care, > > > > > > > > Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at > > http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104 > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:vintageHO@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vintageHO%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf > > Of Russ Shiel > > Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2011 9:54 PM > > To: vintageHO@ > > Subject: [vintageHO] Kar-Line inventory > > > > > > > > > > > > H'lo All...there was a thread last year on the specialist road cars > produced > > in the 70's under the Kar-Line brand, but I don't recall seeing mention of > a > > catalog or inventory of the line being produced. Does anyone know if such > a > > catalog was available? Ray W? I have a Sept 72 ad from RMC for their GN > > boxcar, $7.25 at the time. > > > > I had been watching a couple of Kar-Line GN cars on offer recently, and > was > > a tad surprised when they went >$50! A quick search of other auctions > shows > > that Kar-Line boxcars are generally in the $20-30 range, but a few of the > > ?rarer flags are going >$100. I gather that these are limited production > > road names? > > > > Any advice on the range appreciated! > > > > Thanks, Russ > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17771	From: Nelson	Date: 11/28/2011
Subject: Rivarossi / Lionel 2-8-0 Set

I was watching this auction, but I'm gobsmacked at the final bid. HO BY LIONEL #5704 RIVAROSSI 9-Car Steam Work Train Set I don't think the tender floor on this 2-8-0 is even original, since they were diecast and always crumbled. Someone must have scratchbuilt one out of brass, which would affect the value. Nelson

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17772	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 11/28/2011
Subject: Re: Rivarossi / Lionel 2-8-0 Set

Wow! I would have thought four or five hundred! I've got one 'rossi car with the little Lionel "L" on the side, if I had to sell it (which I don't or won't) I would have been happy to get ten bucks. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nelson" <greenbrier614@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 5:33 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Rivarossi / Lionel 2-8-0 Set I was watching this auction, but I'm gobsmacked at the final bid. [:O] HO BY LIONEL #5704 RIVAROSSI 9-Car Steam Work Train Set <http://www.ebay.com/itm/360411911065?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p\ 3984.m1438.l2649> I don't think the tender floor on this 2-8-0 is even original, since they were diecast and always crumbled. Someone must have scratchbuilt one out of brass, which would affect the value. Nelson

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17773	From: gnmrr	Date: 11/28/2011
Subject: Re: Kar-Line inventory

G'Day Russ,    Kar-Line is a subject I enjoy talking about.     Kar-Line was first announced the year Model Die Casting released their new plastic body box cars, to be sold under the Roundhouse name.  Kar-Line never printed a catalog, but instead utilized Order Forms.  Polks' Hobby, Walthers' Terminal Hobby Shop Division and The Builder's Compendium for HO all cataloged the line . . . once each, except The Compendium did do at least one update.    Kar-Line's original Order Form (OF) was typewritten, with boxcar red cars on one side and other colored cars on the reverse.  When the professionally printed OF came into use, there was a problem because many of the original 'catalog' numbers were changed.  This was to be a continuing problem as some numbers were dropped only to be reassigned to a different road.  Different numbering schemes developed in time and instead of keeping whole numbers, they added cars by adding tenths to the whole number and they added a scheme utilizing a letter followed by a series of doigits.  Examples of the tenths folly are; #215 Rock Island Pullman Green box car, 215.1 Rock Island Jade Green box car, and 215.2 Richmond Fredericksberg and Potomac Blue box car.  These same cars are sometimes found numbered 215, 215a and 215b respectively.    Originally Kar-Line was sold in kit or R-T-R in a black box with an end label with the 'catalog' number, roadname and usually a very brief description.  The cars came with X2f or Kadee #5 couplers, as specified by the purchaser.  Central Valley sprung trucks were standard.  The first cars advertised and released were Roundhouse followed by the addition of Athearn and Mantua.  Kar-Line was originally sold exclusively by Madsen Model Rail Road Products but eventually started showing up in local hobby shops.  I believe the cars sold in hobby shops came with only Kadee couplers.  Once Central Valley announced the damage to their truck dies and the fact that they were exiting the HO truck business, Kar-Line had to 'scramble' to find a suitable replacement.  It was at that time they ceased using the traditional black box and eventually went to two slightly different white boxes and a blue box with a clear plastic cover.  They opted to manufacture their own Delrin rigid frame, no-lube trucks with the blackened metal wheels.    My original listing showed close to seven hundred fifty different paint and lettering schemes.  This has been whittled down to seven hundred by being able to find the earliest cars in their boxes and comparing the car with the descriptions of the later cars, thus removing duplication.  Most cars were made with up to ten different road numbers.  Kar-Line also made 'Specials', special numbers as well as special car decorations.  The fifty foot single sliding door car is not listed as an available product, however I have a D&H car with the original box.    Kar-Line was covered by the HO Scale Collectors and History Special Interest Group of the NMRA.  Three of the four issues of The Reporting Mark were Volume 21 #4, and Volume 22 #1 and 2.  I believe the last issue covering Kar-Line was Volume 22 #3, but I can not locate the issue to verify this.    As far as value goes, the Mantua reefers were only available for two years and the Roundhouse truss side cars have shown up on eBay three times in thirteen years, their rib side Milwaukee cars only twice.  This might be an indication of the harder-to-find items.  But when it comes to pricing, the old rag "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" is accurate, but substitute value for 'beauty'.  Have you ever seen the pure junk sold at rediculous prices on eBay?    Here are a few 'tid bits' from the listings:  ATSF has fifty-one box car listings plus SFRD has an additional three.  The GN has twenty-one box car listings plus two WFEX.  The PRR has eleven listings.  The SP has a total of fifteen listings.  When you assume that most, if not all, of these had at least ten different road numbers you can see where one could amass, back in the 1963 era, a huge number of different reporting marks.    The quality of the product seemed to drop after the company was sold and moved to Stanardsville Virginia.  One can look at the end of a car and by tilting it up and down, see where the gloss overcoating was unevening applied.    I can not give you any advice in regards to purchasing other than be careful to fully identify the model as a Kar-Line product.  I do not purchase 'weathered' or any other type of modified car, that is my choice.  Always verify what manufacturers trucks are included.  When I see a white box with sprung trucks, a flag goes up because the lack of Central Valley trucks are tied to the start of the use of the white boxes..  Are the trucks Central Valley that someone added after the original purchase?  Are they just some other manufacturers truck, Athearn/Silver Streak/Varney (with pizza cutter flanges) or someone elses?  Don't waste money on cheap junk that someone has substituted for original manufacturers product.  Be careful in eBay auctions, there is at least one fellow who has sold (or robbed) under three or possibly four different names and he is still active.    And bear in mind that on eBay, there are mostly honest people selling models that they inherited or were given as gifts, which have been stored in boxes which may not have been the original box.  (I question an auction currently running which contains other than box or refrigerator cars.  I suspect somebody actually was utilizing Kar-Line boxes for storage, because the items fit the box!) Jerry S.   --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Russ Shiel <rshiel01@...> wrote: > > H'lo All...there was a thread last year on the specialist road cars produced in the 70's under the Kar-Line brand, but I don't recall seeing mention of a catalog or inventory of the line being produced. Does anyone know if such a catalog was available? Ray W? I have a Sept 72 ad from RMC for their GN boxcar, $7.25 at the time. > I had been watching a couple of Kar-Line GN cars on offer recently, and was a tad surprised when they went >$50! A quick search of other auctions shows that Kar-Line boxcars are generally in the $20-30 range, but a few of the ?rarer flags are going >$100. I gather that these are limited production road names? > Any advice on the range appreciated! > Thanks, Russ >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17774	From: bcerestrains	Date: 11/29/2011
Subject: Re: Rivarossi / Lionel 2-8-0 Set

The 5704 set from 1957 represents the most desirable one ever produced for or by Lionel in the HO scale. Clearly, the sold set went way over its intrinsic value based on the damage to the setbox, missing inserts, damaged engine, damaged boxes and probably most of the cars. The tender is most commonly found with a damaged floor but I have a few without any damage. It appears that the front truck on the engine almost always shows some damage as is shown in the sold set. Bruce --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Nelson" <greenbrier614@...> wrote: > > I was watching this auction, but I'm gobsmacked at the final bid. [:O] > > HO BY LIONEL #5704 RIVAROSSI 9-Car Steam Work Train Set > <http://www.ebay.com/itm/360411911065?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p\ > 3984.m1438.l2649> > > I don't think the tender floor on this 2-8-0 is even original, since > they were diecast and always crumbled. Someone must have scratchbuilt > one out of brass, which would affect the value. > > Nelson >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17775	From: Nelson	Date: 11/29/2011
Subject: Re: Rivarossi / Lionel 2-8-0 Set

Bruce, So doesn't that mean the brass tender floor is a repair? The trucks look like they're held on with 2-56 screws, and there's the larger flat head screw through the center beam, none of which Rivarossi used. Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "bcerestrains" <bceres@...> wrote: > > The 5704 set from 1957 represents the most desirable one ever produced for or by Lionel in the HO scale. Clearly, the sold set went way over its intrinsic value based on the damage to the setbox, missing inserts, damaged engine, damaged boxes and probably most of the cars. The tender is most commonly found with a damaged floor but I have a few without any damage. It appears that the front truck on the engine almost always shows some damage as is shown in the sold set. > > Bruce

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17776	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 11/29/2011
Subject: Re: Rivarossi / Lionel 2-8-0 Set

Yes, that's a repair. Looks like they might have saved the cast-in gearbox and remounted it through the hole in the floor. I have one of those (not a Lionel, but an original Riv, purchased new in 66 or so) and the tender frame AND gearbox had ex-ploded in storage. I did a writeup in "repower and regear" on the NWSL gearbox in the loco and can motor in the tender, with all new brass floor, centre-sill, frame bolsters. You have to do a NWSL box as the factory axle ratio it very high, so shaft speed is low. I had a Menzies Machine Shop driveshaft kit in mine, used it, about shook off the rails.....found somewhere I had used a 2-56 bolt as a setscrew, and with the very high shaft RPM....well, went and bought a couple of 1/8" long setscrews, and it runs smoother than it ever did out-of-the-box. If youy can live with reverse linkage on left side and oval cab front windows, it's all right. > Bruce, > > So doesn't that mean the brass tender floor is a repair? The trucks look like they're held on with 2-56 screws, and there's the larger flat head screw through the center beam, none of which Rivarossi used. > > Nelson > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "bcerestrains" <bceres@> wrote: > > > > The 5704 set from 1957 represents the most desirable one ever produced for or by Lionel in the HO scale. Clearly, the sold set went way over its intrinsic value based on the damage to the setbox, missing inserts, damaged engine, damaged boxes and probably most of the cars. The tender is most commonly found with a damaged floor but I have a few without any damage. It appears that the front truck on the engine almost always shows some damage as is shown in the sold set. > > > > Bruce >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17777	From: Nelson	Date: 11/29/2011
Subject: Re: Rivarossi / Lionel 2-8-0 Set

Dave, That's actually the bottom (usually the top) of the ball bearing motor poking through the floor. The original floor had a molded recess for it. I don't know if they rescued the reduction gearing, or installed a substitute. If not, it must run like a rocket. The only reason I wasn't sure about the repair was that early RR C-Liners had a sheet brass frame, so I thought the same might have been true for early Consolidation tenders. This wasn't the most interesting looking loco, IMHO. Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "trainsnwrcs" <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: > > > Yes, that's a repair. Looks like they might have saved the cast-in gearbox and remounted it through the hole in the floor. > I have one of those (not a Lionel, but an original Riv, purchased new in 66 or so) and the tender frame AND gearbox had ex-ploded in storage. I did a writeup in "repower and regear" on the NWSL gearbox in the loco and can motor in the tender, with all new brass floor, centre-sill, frame bolsters. You have to do a NWSL box as the factory axle ratio it very high, so shaft speed is low. > I had a Menzies Machine Shop driveshaft kit in mine, used it, about shook off the rails.....found somewhere I had used a 2-56 bolt as a setscrew, and with the very high shaft RPM....well, went and bought a couple of 1/8" long setscrews, and it runs smoother than it ever did out-of-the-box. > If youy can live with reverse linkage on left side and oval cab front windows, it's all right. > > > Bruce, > > > > So doesn't that mean the brass tender floor is a repair? The trucks look like they're held on with 2-56 screws, and there's the larger flat head screw through the center beam, none of which Rivarossi used.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17778	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 11/29/2011
Subject: Re: Rivarossi / Lionel 2-8-0 Set

Yeah, I know what it is....having done one. My point, if I even had one, was usually the gearbox disintegrates also. You can spot the brass sill and the poorly cut opening for said gearbox. They were garbage when new, and certainly didn't improve with age. > Dave, > > That's actually the bottom (usually the top) of the ball bearing motor poking through the floor. The original floor had a molded recess for it. I don't know if they rescued the reduction gearing, or installed a substitute. If not, it must run like a rocket. > > The only reason I wasn't sure about the repair was that early RR C-Liners had a sheet brass frame, so I thought the same might have been true for early Consolidation tenders. This wasn't the most interesting looking loco, IMHO. > > Nelson > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "trainsnwrcs" <idioticyahoo@> wrote: > > > > > > Yes, that's a repair. Looks like they might have saved the cast-in gearbox and remounted it through the hole in the floor. > > I have one of those (not a Lionel, but an original Riv, purchased new in 66 or so) and the tender frame AND gearbox had ex-ploded in storage. I did a writeup in "repower and regear" on the NWSL gearbox in the loco and can motor in the tender, with all new brass floor, centre-sill, frame bolsters. You have to do a NWSL box as the factory axle ratio it very high, so shaft speed is low. > > I had a Menzies Machine Shop driveshaft kit in mine, used it, about shook off the rails.....found somewhere I had used a 2-56 bolt as a setscrew, and with the very high shaft RPM....well, went and bought a couple of 1/8" long setscrews, and it runs smoother than it ever did out-of-the-box. > > If youy can live with reverse linkage on left side and oval cab front windows, it's all right. > > > > > Bruce, > > > > > > So doesn't that mean the brass tender floor is a repair? The trucks look like they're held on with 2-56 screws, and there's the larger flat head screw through the center beam, none of which Rivarossi used. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17779	From: bcerestrains	Date: 11/30/2011
Subject: Re: Rivarossi / Lionel 2-8-0 Set

Dear Nelson: I dug out the consolidation tender from the same set and the tender floor is completely different than the ebay item. Clearly as stated by you and others, the tender mounting and floor was replaced. Regards, Bruce --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Nelson" <greenbrier614@...> wrote: > > Bruce, > > So doesn't that mean the brass tender floor is a repair? The trucks look like they're held on with 2-56 screws, and there's the larger flat head screw through the center beam, none of which Rivarossi used. > > Nelson > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "bcerestrains" <bceres@> wrote: > > > > The 5704 set from 1957 represents the most desirable one ever produced for or by Lionel in the HO scale. Clearly, the sold set went way over its intrinsic value based on the damage to the setbox, missing inserts, damaged engine, damaged boxes and probably most of the cars. The tender is most commonly found with a damaged floor but I have a few without any damage. It appears that the front truck on the engine almost always shows some damage as is shown in the sold set. > > > > Bruce >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17780	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 11/30/2011
Subject: Re: Kar-Line inventory

Hello Jerry S., First, I'd like to say that you are quite correct -- the HO SC&H SIG group did indeed publish information on Kar-Line, and a good deal of it at that. I regret that in looking through my index set (which I have only up to Volume 15, #9) for this Group's publications, that I did not look further into the actual issues. Yes, as you indicated, the Kar-Line info starts with Vol. 21, #4 and continues with Vol 22, #'s 1 & 2 AND does also continue into Vol. 22, #3. There is a most interesting in-depth article on Kar-Line written by Mike Christian, Jerry Stevenson (would you be this Jerry Stevenson?), Dick Higgins and Dale Snow. It starts with the complete history of the firm, starting in 1962 right to the end, as started on page 6 through page 9 (4 pages), inclusive, then continues in this issue (V-21, #4) with 7 pages of Kar-Line Order Forms from page 10 through page 16, inclusive. In V-22, #1, the history is picked up on page 3 and continues through page 6 -- then a very comprehensive HO SC&H SIG Listing of Kar-Line cars is started on page 7 and runs through page 10. This listing is picked up and continued with V-22, #2 starting with page 9 and going through page 18, Finally, the last section of this comprehensive listing continues again with V-22, #3 on page 10 and continues through page 25. Both inclusions are most helpful -- the section containing all of the Kar-Line Order Forms and the section containing the HO SC&H SIG listing for this manufacturer, but this latter section written by these gentlemen contains many notes on car colors, logos (such as GN's Mountain Goat, etc.), slogans (such as Route of the Rockets, Way of the Zephyrs and Route of the Phoebe Snow, etc.) and many reporting (car side) numbers even if not all of them. Reefers are pointed out as such where included; even equipment (type of coupler & trucks) was listed. All in all, there's a great deal of information there covering nearly 19 pages (some continuations start on the last half of a page) in all. By your notation that those kits sold through hobby shops came only with Kadee couplers, I take it then that no kits sold through hobby shops came with horn-hook couplers. I know I don't ever recall any Kar-Line kits having horn-hook couplers. Any of the ones I bought at hobby shops contained both Kadee couplers and Central Valley trucks. I double checked on my AAR 50' NYC "Early Bird" (174280) box car, and it is a double-door car. This model came in the one-piece white box with the cellophane window, and came with Kadee's as well as CV trucks, as bought right from the hobby shop. I noticed in the listings that there were a number of AAR 50' DD box cars (auto cars?) that were produced -- not many, but a small number of them. My thoughts and findings go along with everything else you mentioned about Kar-Line. Ray Wetzel</HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17781	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 11/30/2011
Subject: Fwd: Sampson Powered Rail Car

Attachments : IMG_7358.JPG IMG_7356.JPG IMG_7355.JPG IMG_7354.JPG Even though not feeling to go I finished of the Sampson engine except for a coupler. I'm shaking real bad ( not Parkinson ) and I didn't want to paint the handrails. I was afraid I'd have the car looking like a zebra if I painted them but surprisingly I did OK. Same with the decals. Had no problems getting them on and level. Big problem with the decals I had none in black. The grey like color doesn't show to good. But all in all I did rebuild this while being really under the weather. I needed something to do and I think I did OK considering how I feel. Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 17782	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 11/30/2011
Subject: Re: Fwd: Sampson Powered Rail Car [4 Attachments]

Jim, The model looks real good. A great example of the Sampson Power Car. Sorry to hear you're still not feeling too good. Thought that when you got a clean bill of health from all those tests that you'd be alright. Noticed that you lost some weight though. Will you be going for more test so that they can figure this thing out? Hope to see you get well soon. Ray F .W. </HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17783	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 11/30/2011
Subject: Re: Fwd: Sampson Powered Rail Car [4 Attachments]

Golly Jim, I think it looks fine! Just looking at your photos reminds me of my dreams for "Tomorrow" back in the 40s. Jake Bechtel Gadsden, AL On 11/30/11, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > > > Even though not feeling to go I finished of the Sampson engine > except for a coupler. I'm shaking real bad ( not Parkinson ) and I > didn't want to paint the handrails. I was afraid I'd have the car > looking like a zebra if I painted them but surprisingly I did OK. Same > with the decals. Had no problems getting them on and level. Big problem > with the decals I had none in black. The grey like color doesn't show to > good. > > But all in all I did rebuild this while being really under the > weather. I needed something to do and I think I did OK considering how I > feel. > > Jim H > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17784	From: Nelson	Date: 11/30/2011
Subject: Re: Rivarossi / Lionel 2-8-0 Set

Thanks, Bruce. So with a dodgy repair and a loco that wouldn't even run right if they dispensed with the reduction gearing in the tender, it makes you wonder if the buyer had any idea what he was getting into. But then what do I know; with collectors the boxes are often worth more than the trains that come in them.  Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "bcerestrains" <bceres@...> wrote: > > Dear Nelson: > > I dug out the consolidation tender from the same set and the tender floor is completely different than the ebay item. Clearly as stated by you and others, the tender mounting and floor was replaced. > > Regards, > Bruce

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17785	From: rcjge	Date: 12/1/2011
Subject: Vintage restoration hypothetical

Guys: If you acquired a vintage cast metal engine that was mechanically excellent but cosmetically poor to very poor, would you; a) Repaint it in the original scheme or b) consider another scheme that was stereotypically appropriate Ley me know what you think.... Thanks, Gareth PS: cross posted to YB group.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17786	From: luvprr@aol.com	Date: 12/1/2011
Subject: Re: Vintage restoration hypothetical

Either--depending on how you feel . Holy Moly, it's a very personal decision!     In a message dated 12/1/2011 8:23:07 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, jgpedwards@... writes: Guys: If you acquired a vintage cast metal engine that was mechanically excellent but cosmetically poor to very poor, would you; a) Repaint it in the original scheme or b) consider another scheme that was stereotypically appropriate Ley me know what you think.... Thanks, Gareth PS: cross posted to YB group. ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings:     Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join     (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email:     vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com     vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:     vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17787	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 12/1/2011
Subject: Re: Vintage restoration hypothetical

Great question, worthy of considered conjecture. Actually, I have done both! Example: The Mantua/Tyco pacific is a very close representation of 3 of the B&O President class locos and if you remove the shielding for the sand pipes and install CalScale or Cary sand pipes you now have several more B&O Presidents. But back to the first 3. Restore the Mantua Pacific to it's factory configuration, this will give you two of the locos. Install the Miller detail kits and they get better. For the 3rd one you will need to either replace the pilot with a sheet metal pilot or do like the B&O did and cover up a damaged pilot with sheet metal. I covered up the original tubes with shim stock on one loco and on another I just filled-in and smoothed-up the pilot with that green modelers putty. Then you can paint them for the prototype locos - which just incidently - have never been produced. Photos of these locos are on the road's historical society pages, I think they are #`**14, **15, and **16. Similarly I have restored several other Mantua, Varney, MDC, English, New One and other makes and then decorated them to match photos of the original production or other roads, as the spirit moved me, or my customer requested. Two more likely candidates are the Mantua 4-4-0, and 0-4-0. Additionally, the Mantua 4-6-0 looks much better in my opinion if decorated for a road that actually ran similar units. I recently did one up for the N&W. I thought it was a nice representation, and since it sold at our clubs last show for $200 at least one other person thought so too. I'd be interested in other folks thoughts and especially in what units you restored and any decoration changes that yu made. Jake Bechtel Gadsden, AL On 12/1/11, luvprr@... <luvprr@...> wrote: > Either--depending on how you feel . Holy Moly, it's a very personal > decision! > > > > In a message dated 12/1/2011 8:23:07 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > jgpedwards@... writes: > > Guys: > > If you acquired a vintage cast metal engine that was mechanically > excellent but cosmetically poor to very poor, would you; > > a) Repaint it in the original scheme > > or > > b) consider another scheme that was stereotypically appropriate > > Ley me know what you think.... > > Thanks, > Gareth > PS: cross posted to YB group. > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17788	From: MRLENGAL2U@aol.com	Date: 12/1/2011
Subject: Re: Vintage restoration hypothetical

When restoring old locos, I usually try to do the restoration in a way that reflects the modeling of the period in which the piece was originally produced. I don't try to update the piece with more modern techniques concerning details or paint. I use old magazines for reference, and in the case of a loco detailed and painted for a fictional model railroad, I try to keep it as such.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17789	From: nvrr49	Date: 12/2/2011
Subject: Re: Vintage restoration hypothetical

IMHO, there is no correct answer, just do what you want, after all, it is your model. I generally build old kits using some new techniques and materials as I see fit. I still use a lot of the old details, but not all. Just the way I like to do it, you do what makes you happy. Kent in KC nvrr49.blogspot.com --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "rcjge" <jgpedwards@...> wrote: > > Guys: > > If you acquired a vintage cast metal engine that was mechanically excellent but cosmetically poor to very poor, would you; > > a) Repaint it in the original scheme > > or > > b) consider another scheme that was stereotypically appropriate > > Ley me know what you think.... > > Thanks, > Gareth > PS: cross posted to YB group. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17790	From: David J. Starr	Date: 12/2/2011
Subject: Re: Vintage restoration hypothetical

On 12/1/2011 8:23 PM, rcjge wrote: > Guys: > > If you acquired a vintage cast metal engine that was mechanically excellent but cosmetically poor to very poor, would you; > > a) Repaint it in the original scheme > > or > > b) consider another scheme that was stereotypically appropriate > > Ley me know what you think.... > > Thanks, > Gareth > PS: cross posted to YB group. Do whatever gives you the most satisfaction. "Vintage" HO models are not particularly valuable, so you will not be reducing the "collector value", because there ain't none. The Mantua and Bowser steamers in particular are good runners that pull well. They can serve as the basis for a really fun kit bash. On the other hand if a "vintage model steamer" look pleases you, go that way. -- David J. Starr Blog: http://www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17791	From: allen	Date: 12/2/2011
Subject: Re: Vintage restoration hypothetical

Do you have pictures you could post of the Mantua 4-6-0 that you did as an Norfolk and Western engine? If not could you go into a little detail as to what you did? Thanks, Allen Wood Chico, Ca.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17792	From: Russ	Date: 12/2/2011
Subject: Kar-Line now up on HOSeeker

To Ray W, Jerry S and other Kar-Line aficianado's who responded to my initial query on this make, many thanks for your detailed responses! I asked Larry at HOSeeker to include Kar-Line as a folder, and sent the sole RMC ad I had, and an auction photo of a recent Kar-Line NH car win. Instantly! A Kar-Line folder is now on HOSeeker, link below, which now needs to be filled!! Kudo's to Larry for his efforts to get centralized information on our hobby/?obsession (!) http://www.hoseeker.org/gallery/index.php?album=hotrains2%2Fkarline http://www.hoseeker.org/otherhotrains11.html And a btw, does anyone know the identity of 'oldbill', who posted a history of Kar-Line to the Atlas discussion group in 2006...I'd like to seek his permission to add it to the Kar-Line folder. Cheers all! Russ

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17793	From: Donald Dellmann	Date: 12/3/2011
Subject: Re: Vintage restoration hypothetical

Do whatever lights up your billboard.  The theme of this group is Vintage HO OPERATORS, for those of us who actually love and operate the great old trains of our youth.  These models were never intended to be put on a shelf and admired (unlike the overpriced junque of today), They were intended to be used and abused, and in many cases that included modifications at the whim of the modeller.   Don (listowner) --- On Thu, 12/1/11, rcjge <jgpedwards@...> wrote: From: rcjge <jgpedwards@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Vintage restoration hypothetical To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, December 1, 2011, 7:23 PM Guys: If you acquired a vintage cast metal engine that was mechanically excellent but cosmetically poor to very poor, would you; a) Repaint it in the original scheme or b) consider another scheme that was stereotypically appropriate Ley me know what you think.... Thanks, Gareth PS: cross posted to YB group. ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings:     Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join     (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email:     vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com     vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:     vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17794	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 12/3/2011
Subject: Re: Hiawatha

> > > At first look at the hand made brass 4-4-2 Hiawatha on eBay I was > very interested in it since it was an award winner. But as I looked > closer at the paint job especially the red area that goes on the > streamlined shroud especially at the bottom and the black and white > back of the tender kind of made me change my mind. When this was > picked as an award winner I doubt the builder had it looking like > this. I believe , and I'm guessing, that it was painted over by > someone after the fact. > > Not knowing much about the criteria used for judging do the > members know or think this engine was judged as it is now. If I bid > and won I'd be looking to a new paint job .Any thoughts. > > Feeling a little better and started working on a pre war Varney > blue ( B+O look } wood and celluloid pre painted sides passenger > set. To start I have to take each apart ,sand everything and glue back > together. It had some trucks but thanks to Sean Naylor I have enough > even some extras. This sanding will make it a long process just to get > the wood bodies all fixed. > > Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17795	From: John H	Date: 12/3/2011
Subject: Re: Hiawatha

Jim, Really glad to hear you are doing better and able to tackle one of your great restoration projects. Do you have the auction number for the Hiawatha? This must be an auction that has ended. At least I can't find it. but, with the numeber, it will come up for 90 days after the auction completion. John Hagen --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > > > > > > At first look at the hand made brass 4-4-2 Hiawatha on eBay I was > > very interested in it since it was an award winner. But as I looked > > closer at the paint job especially the red area that goes on the > > streamlined shroud especially at the bottom and the black and white > > back of the tender kind of made me change my mind. When this was > > picked as an award winner I doubt the builder had it looking like > > this. I believe , and I'm guessing, that it was painted over by > > someone after the fact. > > > > Not knowing much about the criteria used for judging do the > > members know or think this engine was judged as it is now. If I bid > > and won I'd be looking to a new paint job .Any thoughts. > > > > Feeling a little better and started working on a pre war Varney > > blue ( B+O look } wood and celluloid pre painted sides passenger > > set. To start I have to take each apart ,sand everything and glue back > > together. It had some trucks but thanks to Sean Naylor I have enough > > even some extras. This sanding will make it a long process just to get > > the wood bodies all fixed. > > > > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17796	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 12/3/2011
Subject: Re: Hiawatha

HI John,   The number for the Hiawatha is 220904372339     Scratch built 4-4-2 Hiawatha                                  Jim H On 12/3/2011 5:19 PM, John H wrote:   Jim, Really glad to hear you are doing better and able to tackle one of your great restoration projects. Do you have the auction number for the Hiawatha? This must be an auction that has ended. At least I can't find it. but, with the numeber, it will come up for 90 days after the auction completion. John Hagen --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > > > > > > At first look at the hand made brass 4-4-2 Hiawatha on eBay I was > > very interested in it since it was an award winner. But as I looked > > closer at the paint job especially the red area that goes on the > > streamlined shroud especially at the bottom and the black and white > > back of the tender kind of made me change my mind. When this was > > picked as an award winner I doubt the builder had it looking like > > this. I believe , and I'm guessing, that it was painted over by > > someone after the fact. > > > > Not knowing much about the criteria used for judging do the > > members know or think this engine was judged as it is now. If I bid > > and won I'd be looking to a new paint job .Any thoughts. > > > > Feeling a little better and started working on a pre war Varney > > blue ( B+O look } wood and celluloid pre painted sides passenger > > set. To start I have to take each apart ,sand everything and glue back > > together. It had some trucks but thanks to Sean Naylor I have enough > > even some extras. This sanding will make it a long process just to get > > the wood bodies all fixed. > > > > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17797	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 12/3/2011
Subject: Re: Hiawatha

Guys, When you look at the page, DO look at the 'enlarge' option for the images and look very closely at the last one you'll see there. It's a shot of the builder at his workbench with a Milw Rd streamlined Baltic under construction. Look very closely at the mech he built. Notice that quite large flywheel that winds up in the cab........... That model should be one very sweet runner! As to the paint, it looks to me like some of the colors migrated somehow over the last 20 years and bled into each other. You can be picky about the details being a little fuzzy on the model and some of the windows not being quite crisp and maybe off angle between the inner frames and the outer skin of the model. But Dang, I wish I had built a couple of those for myself. She's NICE !!!! Now......... if........ The 4-4-2 has the same sort of huge flywheel drive as the Baltic/F-7 shown at the workbench.......... That should be one nice running model! This reminds me of one of my back burner projects. Ages ago I got a pair of the cast bodies for the R/R Hiawatha A's with the idea of one day building my own sort-of Milwaukee Road A's from them. I never want to cut or paint them and I'm going through a very overdue major house cleaning which is badly needed. But I know where those two shell sets are and I think it's time to go forward with casting those shells and rigging them to run with Mantua Pacific parts. The most recent Hiawatha anniversary book has a picture of the original proposal for a 4-4-4 that is styled just a bit differently than the production 4-4-2. As I see it, the R/R Hiawatha shells are perfect for the proposed Milwaukee Road Hiawatha 4-4-4, using classic Mantua Pacific parts on a properly tooled chassis. She'd be all vintage and since she's a never built prototype, I don't have to be accurate down to the scale inch with her. I hear the R/R Hiawatha shell isn't fully accurate anyway. Well, I'm just talking out loud about this. I's sure like to build some of the few other proposed Hiawatha cars that show in the various books that never made it into production, and run a train of them with the never built Hiawatha Jubilee's. I hope to have the steamer castings in a couple of months as the cleaning finishes and the dust settles, make that vanishes. I should be able to compare the R/R shells to the new Hiawatha A's in a couple of weeks or so. I do know where they are. I'll be looking for Mantua/Tyco pacific carcasses at the next several swap meets. I'm just ranting with a goal. The goal is to run at least one Hi/4-4-4 train at NAPM by the end of next year. It was really good to see this model on eBay. I'm a bit juiced up by seeing it. That big-a*s flywheel will go in there in tribute to Donald Johnson's rendition of it's sisters. Mike Bauers. On Dec 3, 2011, at 4:25 PM, Jim Heckard wrote: > > > > HI John, The number for the Hiawatha is 220904372339 Scratch built 4-4-2 Hiawatha > > Jim H > > > > > > On 12/3/2011 5:19 PM, John H wrote: >> >> Jim, >> >> Really glad to hear you are doing better and able to tackle one of your great restoration projects. >> >> Do you have the auction number for the Hiawatha? This must be an auction that has ended. At least I can't find it. but, with the numeber, it will come up for 90 days after the auction completion. >> >> John Hagen >> >> --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: >> > >> > >> > > >> > > >> > > At first look at the hand made brass 4-4-2 Hiawatha on eBay I was >> > > very interested in it since it was an award winner. But as I looked >> > > closer at the paint job especially the red area that goes on the

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17798	From: acace@juno.com	Date: 12/3/2011
Subject: Re: Kar-Line

To try and put things in perspective, I purchased a Rutland Kar-Line w/CV trucks today at a show. Excellent condition, no box. $5.00. A friend bought two others at the same show for $8.00 each. And for those that don't know, reproduction boxes are (or were, not sure at the moment) available from Reboxx. Regards, Dick W.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17799	From: Jim Waterman	Date: 12/4/2011
Subject: Re: Hiawatha

I have to say, this is one unique model. Looks like he hacked the shell out of a solid piece of brass. Must have taken a hundred hours or more just for the shell. It looks like the photo is of him building a baltic, not the A atlantic. Wonder where that one is? The paint is what it is, not the greatest, and because MILW paint schemes are very complex, it wouldn't be easy to do much better. I think Don did a great job on it. I can remember a brass model was made by , Nickel Plate maybe? and the paint on it was atrocious (poor masking primarily), so even the pros don't always get it right. Jim Waterman

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17800	From: John H	Date: 12/4/2011
Subject: Re: Hiawatha

The F7 Baltic is number 220905385435 . He also built a F6a Baltic. Go to one of these auction and click "see other items" Once to the seller's site if you select model trains it'll bring up all of Don's models. There are several, all very interesting models from the 30's. And all with paint that does leave some room for improvement. The models themselves won't be confused with an Overland but are very good. I certainly can't do any serious critique on the construction, never having scratch built any locos. But I've paint many, many locos, car, etc., including a bunch of early GN and GB&W units so I know how to paint stripes (on which all the striping was painted, not decaled BTW) so I can speak to paint. Not trying to belittle Don's work, but I think he was a better builder than painter. I know a fellow locally that can knock out beautiful scratch built or bashed models but he then hands them off to a co-hort for painting. Had I the time and money. I'd buy one of Don's models (His F7 Hi is a really great looking loco) and repaint it as a tribute to his skill and hard work. Check out his models, there is likely something there you'd like to own. John Hagen --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Waterman <Watermaj@...> wrote: > > I have to say, this is one unique model. Looks like he hacked the shell > out of a solid piece of brass. Must have taken a hundred hours or more > just for the shell. > > It looks like the photo is of him building a baltic, not the A atlantic. > Wonder where that one is? > > The paint is what it is, not the greatest, and because MILW paint > schemes are very complex, it wouldn't be easy to do much better. > > I think Don did a great job on it. I can remember a brass model was made > by , Nickel Plate maybe? and the paint on it was atrocious (poor masking > primarily), so even the pros don't always get it right. > > Jim Waterman >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17801	From: Mike	Date: 12/4/2011
Subject: Is it Mantua?

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/recent/280832656/view Need help confirming my new Mogul is a Mantua. Can anyone confirm if it is and what year it was produced? Was the detailing standard? Thanks guys.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17802	From: jay matz	Date: 12/4/2011
Subject: Re: Is it Mantua?

Yes it is Mantua. The headlight & domes have been changed. Jay From: Mike <ayutla5@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, December 4, 2011 10:16 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Is it Mantua?   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/recent/280832656/view Need help confirming my new Mogul is a Mantua. Can anyone confirm if it is and what year it was produced? Was the detailing standard? Thanks guys.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17803	From: rcjge	Date: 12/4/2011
Subject: Re: Vintage restoration hypothetical

Hi Don: It's true that back in the day, adaptation was common instead of whinging that the manufacturer should make my favourite road in my favourite scheme! I can easily see myself making her into a Pacific Electric unit with Poles... than than plunking down money for a new Bowser that while well executed doesn't have quite the same attraction... -Gareth --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Donald Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > Do whatever lights up your billboard.� The theme of this group is Vintage HO OPERATORS, for those of us who actually love and operate the great old trains of our youth.� These models were never intended to be put on a shelf and admired (unlike the overpriced junque of today), They were intended to be used and abused, and in many cases that included modifications at the whim of the modeller. > � > Don > (listowner)

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17804	From: Mike	Date: 12/4/2011
Subject: Re: Is it Mantua?

Is it considered the straight six Jay? Thank you --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, jay matz <dlw455@...> wrote: > > Yes it is Mantua. The headlight & domes have been changed. > Jay > > > > ________________________________ > From: Mike <ayutla5@...> > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sunday, December 4, 2011 10:16 AM > Subject: [vintageHO] Is it Mantua? > > >   > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/recent/280832656/view > Need help confirming my new Mogul is a Mantua. Can anyone confirm if it is and what year it was produced? Was the detailing standard? Thanks guys. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17805	From: Glenn	Date: 12/4/2011
Subject: Re: Is it Mantua?

Couldn't open pix--but mine is like the "Belle of the Eighties"==brass boiler, cab, domes--zamak frame, cylinders, and tender-- glenn joesten -----Original Message----- From: Mike Sent: Sunday, December 04, 2011 7:16 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Is it Mantua? http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/recent/280832656/view Need help confirming my new Mogul is a Mantua. Can anyone confirm if it is and what year it was produced? Was the detailing standard? Thanks guys. ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17806	From: jay matz	Date: 12/4/2011
Subject: Re: Is it Mantua?

The 2-6-0 is the mogul, or in the Mantua catalog The Eight ball Mogul. The 4-4-0 is the Bell of the Eightys Jay From: Mike <ayutla5@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, December 4, 2011 4:24 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Is it Mantua?   Is it considered the straight six Jay? Thank you --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, jay matz <dlw455@...> wrote: > > Yes it is Mantua. The headlight & domes have been changed. > Jay > > > > ________________________________ > From: Mike <ayutla5@...> > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sunday, December 4, 2011 10:16 AM > Subject: [vintageHO] Is it Mantua? > > >   > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/recent/280832656/view > Need help confirming my new Mogul is a Mantua. Can anyone confirm if it is and what year it was produced? Was the detailing standard? Thanks guys. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17807	From: boxcar4willhe	Date: 12/4/2011
Subject: Photos w/captions in Walker, Lons trains album

Hi, This is notification that I have captioned and edited pictures of the old train collection I purchased on ebay. The seller said these were her Dad's trains but she never saw them running. The engine needs parts and some rewiring. Thanks. Lon Walker http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/album/959215047/pic/1012236814/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17808	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 12/4/2011
Subject: Re: Photos w/captions in Walker, Lons trains album

Yeah, lots of parts. Siderods, main rods, crossheads, trucks (maybe), corner of the cab gone (tape, JB Weld, sandpaper and paint), the cardstock side cars, some look pretty bad....tank car wrapper no longer adhered in places. I have some of those couplers, somewhere. Tender shell is either badly bent or Zamac Rot has set in, hard to say from the photos. Not un-do-able, but a lot of work. Keep you busy until next Christmas. Let me know if you find Flyer H0 parts. Some are out there, I need a dome top for a Flyer tank car some time. Have Fun! > Hi, > > This is notification that I have captioned and edited pictures of the old train collection I purchased on ebay. The seller said these were her Dad's trains but she never saw them running. The engine needs parts and some rewiring. Thanks. Lon Walker > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/album/959215047/pic/1012236814/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17809	From: Lon Walker	Date: 12/4/2011
Subject: Re: Photos w/captions in Walker, Lons trains album

Hi No Name,    I hope you said all that with a smile on your face. Actually I didn't pay much for the collection and I was looking at it more as a snapshot in the history of model railroading. If I never get all the parts for the engine I will not fret as this is not my main interest. I take it you are saying parts are hard to find.  I will use this as  practice project to see if I can get it running. It actually did run for about three seconds but I am not sure what I did to cause that. It is a bit unusual because of the spur gear drive, the AC motor and the RDC reverse. If it never runs I can display the side with rods on a shelf. I can practice casting repairs and maybe painting. The cars are just examples of old card side kits that I can study. . I will see what I can do about trucks. The couplers are vintage and unknown to younger modelers. I looked at the tender shell and it is really pretty straight, just a little bowing in on the sides. I hope there are not too many photos. I deleted a lot of them.  Thanks.  Lon From: trainsnwrcs <idioticyahoo@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, December 4, 2011 8:21 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Photos w/captions in Walker, Lons trains album   Yeah, lots of parts. Siderods, main rods, crossheads, trucks (maybe), corner of the cab gone (tape, JB Weld, sandpaper and paint), the cardstock side cars, some look pretty bad....tank car wrapper no longer adhered in places. I have some of those couplers, somewhere. Tender shell is either badly bent or Zamac Rot has set in, hard to say from the photos. Not un-do-able, but a lot of work. Keep you busy until next Christmas. Let me know if you find Flyer H0 parts. Some are out there, I need a dome top for a Flyer tank car some time. Have Fun! > Hi, > > This is notification that I have captioned and edited pictures of the old train collection I purchased on ebay. The seller said these were her Dad's trains but she never saw them running. The engine needs parts and some rewiring. Thanks. Lon Walker > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/album/959215047/pic/1012236814/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17810	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 12/4/2011
Subject: Re: Photos w/captions in Walker, Lons trains album

Lon, I think along the same lines as you do: The trains you got, are good for a winter project. I see a lot of potential in those cars, and the locomotive as well. I have a Gilbert Hudson like yours, mine too is AC powered, though I converted mine to DC. All you need to do for that is find a permanent magnet for the motor field (A later loco with the crosswise mounted motor can be a parts donor if you find a beat up DC powered one on eBay as I did). Mine is running now as a result. I have the same Megow's B&O caboose that is mostly mechanically restored, and a new roof to replace the beat up old one, it needs some minor work still; I have OO scale metal tender steps that are being reworked into the caboose steps. I have gotten Megow's hoppers in far worse condition and made them presentable again. There's hope for your stuff! Nice thing about doing major rebuilds of the old stuff, is that the opportunity tends to present itself for learning how models used to be made, and getting first-hand experience into vintage model construction. Of course, if you choose, you can also use newer parts for compatibility with newer rolling stock, too. By the way, I have both big closets in my bedroom, packed to the gills with these kinds of projects. Probably could stop buying old trains for restoration, and not run out of things to do for several DECADES. Of course, I likely won't stop buying old trains, though. -Steve Neubaum --- On Sun, 12/4/11, Lon Walker <wlon17@...> wrote: From: Lon Walker <wlon17@...> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Photos w/captions in Walker, Lons trains album To: "vintageHO@yahoogroups.com" <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Date: Sunday, December 4, 2011, 9:24 PM   Hi No Name,    I hope you said all that with a smile on your face. Actually I didn't pay much for the collection and I was looking at it more as a snapshot in the history of model railroading. If I never get all the parts for the engine I will not fret as this is not my main interest. I take it you are saying parts are hard to find.  I will use this as  practice project to see if I can get it running. It actually did run for about three seconds but I am not sure what I did to cause that. It is a bit unusual because of the spur gear drive, the AC motor and the RDC reverse. If it never runs I can display the side with rods on a shelf. I can practice casting repairs and maybe painting. The cars are just examples of old card side kits that I can study. . I will see what I can do about trucks. The couplers are vintage and unknown to younger modelers. I looked at the tender shell and it is really pretty straight, just a little bowing in on the sides. I hope there are not too many photos. I deleted a lot of them.  Thanks.  Lon From: trainsnwrcs <idioticyahoo@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, December 4, 2011 8:21 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Photos w/captions in Walker, Lons trains album   Yeah, lots of parts. Siderods, main rods, crossheads, trucks (maybe), corner of the cab gone (tape, JB Weld, sandpaper and paint), the cardstock side cars, some look pretty bad....tank car wrapper no longer adhered in places. I have some of those couplers, somewhere. Tender shell is either badly bent or Zamac Rot has set in, hard to say from the photos. Not un-do-able, but a lot of work. Keep you busy until next Christmas. Let me know if you find Flyer H0 parts. Some are out there, I need a dome top for a Flyer tank car some time. Have Fun! > Hi, > > This is notification that I have captioned and edited pictures of the old train collection I purchased on ebay. The seller said these were her Dad's trains but she never saw them running. The engine needs parts and some rewiring. Thanks. Lon Walker > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/album/959215047/pic/1012236814/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17811	From: Lon Walker	Date: 12/4/2011
Subject: Re: Photos w/captions in Walker, Lons trains album

Thanks Steve for the words of encouragement and identifying a couple of the cars. I too have plenty of projects to keep me busy.  Thanks again.  Lon From: Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, December 4, 2011 10:41 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Photos w/captions in Walker, Lons trains album   Lon, I think along the same lines as you do: The trains you got, are good for a winter project. I see a lot of potential in those cars, and the locomotive as well. I have a Gilbert Hudson like yours, mine too is AC powered, though I converted mine to DC. All you need to do for that is find a permanent magnet for the motor field (A later loco with the crosswise mounted motor can be a parts donor if you find a beat up DC powered one on eBay as I did). Mine is running now as a result. I have the same Megow's B&O caboose that is mostly mechanically restored, and a new roof to replace the beat up old one, it needs some minor work still; I have OO scale metal tender steps that are being reworked into the caboose steps. I have gotten Megow's hoppers in far worse condition and made them presentable again. There's hope for your stuff! Nice thing about doing major rebuilds of the old stuff, is that the opportunity tends to present itself for learning how models used to be made, and getting first-hand experience into vintage model construction. Of course, if you choose, you can also use newer parts for compatibility with newer rolling stock, too. By the way, I have both big closets in my bedroom, packed to the gills with these kinds of projects. Probably could stop buying old trains for restoration, and not run out of things to do for several DECADES. Of course, I likely won't stop buying old trains, though. -Steve Neubaum --- On Sun, 12/4/11, Lon Walker <wlon17@...> wrote: From: Lon Walker <wlon17@...> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Photos w/captions in Walker, Lons trains album To: "vintageHO@yahoogroups.com" <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Date: Sunday, December 4, 2011, 9:24 PM   Hi No Name,    I hope you said all that with a smile on your face. Actually I didn't pay much for the collection and I was looking at it more as a snapshot in the history of model railroading. If I never get all the parts for the engine I will not fret as this is not my main interest. I take it you are saying parts are hard to find.  I will use this as  practice project to see if I can get it running. It actually did run for about three seconds but I am not sure what I did to cause that. It is a bit unusual because of the spur gear drive, the AC motor and the RDC reverse. If it never runs I can display the side with rods on a shelf. I can practice casting repairs and maybe painting. The cars are just examples of old card side kits that I can study. . I will see what I can do about trucks. The couplers are vintage and unknown to younger modelers. I looked at the tender shell and it is really pretty straight, just a little bowing in on the sides. I hope there are not too many photos. I deleted a lot of them.  Thanks.  Lon From: trainsnwrcs <idioticyahoo@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, December 4, 2011 8:21 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Photos w/captions in Walker, Lons trains album   Yeah, lots of parts. Siderods, main rods, crossheads, trucks (maybe), corner of the cab gone (tape, JB Weld, sandpaper and paint), the cardstock side cars, some look pretty bad....tank car wrapper no longer adhered in places. I have some of those couplers, somewhere. Tender shell is either badly bent or Zamac Rot has set in, hard to say from the photos. Not un-do-able, but a lot of work. Keep you busy until next Christmas. Let me know if you find Flyer H0 parts. Some are out there, I need a dome top for a Flyer tank car some time. Have Fun! > Hi, > > This is notification that I have captioned and edited pictures of the old train collection I purchased on ebay. The seller said these were her Dad's trains but she never saw them running. The engine needs parts and some rewiring. Thanks. Lon Walker > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/album/959215047/pic/1012236814/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17812	From: Jerome	Date: 12/5/2011
Subject: Frisco Norge Box Car

Group, I bought a Frisco Norge 40ft fox car at a train show today and would like to know if anyone has the history on it. I do know that Tyco and Varney produced this same car in white with blue lettering and black lettering. However, I have not seen nor heard of one painted solid gold with red lettering. The printing on the car is not decals. And it carries the same car number as the white cars. There are some paint chips off the car and it shows no other paint pigments under it. Any information would be appreciated. Two photos titled 'Frisco Norge Box Car' are posted in the photo section. Thanks, Jerome Oklahoma City

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17813	From: dennyanspach	Date: 12/5/2011
Subject: Re: Hiawatha

Johnson's remarkable F-7 Milwaukee Road Baltic model is pretty sophisticated, picking up many details that others, including importers, have missed.  The drive is also pretty fine.  The paintwork is not so good (as has been acknowedged), but it is only a few microns thick, and shouldn't detract from the underlying craftsmanship.   I note that he used the decals once produced about 30 years ago by Herald King (Manitowoc, WI) for lettering, striping, and some of the fancy work. Until only very recently, they were the only decals ever produced for this locomotive.   The driving wheels seem to be 80", however, while the prototype had 84".  Even on a model, this small difference can be quite noticeable. Denny    Denny S.  Anspach MD Sacramento

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17814	From: dennyanspach	Date: 12/5/2011
Subject: Re: Is it Mantua?

That is indeed a Mantua Mogul, with some details apparently snagged from a Bell of the Eighties 4-4-0.  In contrary fashion, I have a  Belle of the Eighties that was  significantly updated (and modified) in the early fifties with a Mantua Mogul Stack, cab, and pilot. It is very handsome. These were two very fine models, and the mogul remains one of the best and most handsome of the lot. Denny Denny S.  Anspach MD Sacramento

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17815	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 12/5/2011
Subject: Recent Varney Dockside project

Hey guys! I just wanted to share a little restoration project I did this weekend. Here it is before as purchased: http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/6431781667/in/set-72157623116890157/ Here it is as of now after about four hours of work: http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/6462994595/in/photostream/  Any comments welcome! Thanks! Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17816	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 12/5/2011
Subject: Re: Photos w/captions in Walker, Lons trains album

Odd. Must be the new yahoo upgrade....I used to have a signature line. Oh, I was smiling. I've been doing this kind of winter restoration for a number of years. Flyer H0 parts can be iffy....sometimes, no problem, sometimes all the major suppliers don't have it and can't get it. I am just surprised the bits weren't under a flap in that suitcase. I bought a bunch of cardstock Varney cars off a guy last year....got them and immediately began calling, as the little bits that fell off were probably in the bottom of the big box they were stored in. His wife declined to pass along the messages, I think, and they went away. Ever tried to exactly match one cast reefer ice hatch? Get close, but..... I'm about ready to put all this stuff in a big bag and recycle it. I have waited at least two years next month (and maybe three), and still haven't got the parts I need to finish the big projects, and it's just become an aggravation, instead of relaxation. But, maybe suddenly the bits will show up..... Dave (no-name?) > Hi No Name, > >    I hope you said all that with a smile on your face. Actually I didn't pay much for the collection and I was looking at it more as a snapshot in the history of model railroading. If I never get all the parts for the engine I will not fret as this is not my main interest. I take it you are saying parts are hard to find.  I will use this as  practice project to see if I can get it running. It actually did run for about three seconds but I am not sure what I did to cause that. It is a bit unusual because of the spur gear drive, the AC motor and the RDC reverse. If it never runs I can display the side with rods on a shelf. I can practice casting repairs and maybe painting. The cars are just examples of old card side kits that I can study. . I will see what I can do about trucks. The couplers are vintage and unknown to younger modelers. I looked at the tender shell and it is really pretty straight, just a little bowing in on the sides. I hope there are > not too many photos. I deleted a lot of them.  Thanks.  Lon > > > > ________________________________ > From: trainsnwrcs <idioticyahoo@...> > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sunday, December 4, 2011 8:21 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Photos w/captions in Walker, Lons trains album > > >   > > Yeah, lots of parts. Siderods, main rods, crossheads, trucks (maybe), corner of the cab gone (tape, JB Weld, sandpaper and paint), the cardstock side cars, some look pretty bad....tank car wrapper no longer adhered in places. > I have some of those couplers, somewhere. > Tender shell is either badly bent or Zamac Rot has set in, hard to say from the photos. > Not un-do-able, but a lot of work. > Keep you busy until next Christmas. > Let me know if you find Flyer H0 parts. Some are out there, I need a dome top for a Flyer tank car some time. > Have Fun! > > > Hi, > > > > This is notification that I have captioned and edited pictures of the old train collection I purchased on ebay. The seller said these were her Dad's trains but she never saw them running. The engine needs parts and some rewiring. Thanks. Lon Walker > > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/album/959215047/pic/1012236814/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17817	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 12/5/2011
Subject: Re: Recent Varney Dockside project

You're good! Great result, and in only 4 hours? WOW! Looks more like 16 hrs. or more to me. Walter On Mon, Dec 5, 2011 at 9:00 PM, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote:   Hey guys! .....  Here it is as of now after about four hours of work: http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/6462994595/in/photostream/  Any comments welcome! Thanks! Sean

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17818	From: boxcar4willhe	Date: 12/5/2011
Subject: Re: Recent Varney Dockside project

Hi Sean, Great looking details. Good work. Lon --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > Hey guys! > > I just wanted to share a little restoration project I did this weekend. > > Here it is before as purchased: > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/6431781667/in/set-72157623116890157/ > Here it is as of now after about four hours of work: > > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/6462994595/in/photostream/ > >  Any comments welcome! > > > Thanks! > > Sean > > > "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17819	From: Dennis Thompson	Date: 12/5/2011
Subject: Re: Recent Varney Dockside project

Sean: Wonderful job.  Gives me inspiration for the few, very few, I have.  But too many projects in front of it right now.  I do appreciate the boost I get when someone else makes big gains like you did.  Thanks for sharing, Dennis in E WA state,  (who's very glad to see Jim back on the air). At 05:00 PM 12/5/2011, you wrote: Hey guys! I just wanted to share a little restoration project I did this weekend. Here it is before as purchased: http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/6431781667/in/set-72157623116890157/ Here it is as of now after about four hours of work: http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/6462994595/in/photostream/  Any comments welcome! Thanks! Sean "

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17820	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 12/5/2011
Subject: Re: Recent Varney Dockside project

Thanks so much guys! It really is nice to hear the compliments sometimes. I do love working on the small switchers and such. They are "quick and dirty" so to speak. They are easy to work on and before long, you have a nice model without too much commitment.   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: Dennis Thompson <dbtrail@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, December 5, 2011 11:40 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Recent Varney Dockside project   Sean: Wonderful job.  Gives me inspiration for the few, very few, I have.  But too many projects in front of it right now.  I do appreciate the boost I get when someone else makes big gains like you did.  Thanks for sharing, Dennis in E WA state,  (who's very glad to see Jim back on the air). At 05:00 PM 12/5/2011, you wrote:

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17821	From: Walter Bayer II	Date: 12/6/2011
Subject: Re: Recent Varney Dockside project

Hey, Sean, Can you post the photos in an Album on the Group site? On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 12:40 AM, Dennis Thompson <dbtrail@...> wrote:   Sean: Wonderful job.  Gives me inspiration for the few, very few, I have.  But too many projects in front of it right now.  I do appreciate the boost I get when someone else makes big gains like you did.  Thanks for sharing, Dennis in E WA state,  (who's very glad to see Jim back on the air). At 05:00 PM 12/5/2011, you wrote: Hey guys! I just wanted to share a little restoration project I did this weekend. Here it is before as purchased: http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/6431781667/in/set-72157623116890157/ Here it is as of now after about four hours of work: http://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/6462994595/in/photostream/  Any comments welcome! Thanks! Sean " -- Regards, Walter

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17822	From: Chuck Higdon	Date: 12/6/2011
Subject: Re: Kar-Line now up on HOSeeker

All, I have been able to scan my four pages and send them off to Larry.  This is from the 1972-1973 order form.   Take care,   Chuck Higdon - check out my FEC layout at http://community.webshots.com/user/lordon104   From: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Russ Sent: Friday, December 02, 2011 11:28 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Kar-Line now up on HOSeeker     To Ray W, Jerry S and other Kar-Line aficianado's who responded to my initial query on this make, many thanks for your detailed responses! I asked Larry at HOSeeker to include Kar-Line as a folder, and sent the sole RMC ad I had, and an auction photo of a recent Kar-Line NH car win. Instantly! A Kar-Line folder is now on HOSeeker, link below, which now needs to be filled!! Kudo's to Larry for his efforts to get centralized information on our hobby/?obsession (!) http://www.hoseeker.org/gallery/index.php?album=hotrains2%2Fkarline http://www.hoseeker.org/otherhotrains11.html And a btw, does anyone know the identity of 'oldbill', who posted a history of Kar-Line to the Atlas discussion group in 2006...I'd like to seek his permission to add it to the Kar-Line folder. Cheers all! Russ

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17823	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 12/6/2011
Subject: Engine I won

Attachments : IMG_7378.JPG -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Engine I won Date: Tue, 06 Dec 2011 14:59:11 -0500 From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> To: yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com I'm assuming a lot of people were watching that Hiawatha and the other scratch built engines and i hope some member got at least one of them. I had no intention of bidding on them as I found something I did bid and won Look at the picture I sent Go to item 230708036336 Vintage HO scale New Haven powered engine with wood shell. Looks Like I might have to replace the Lindsay motor but we will see when it gets here. Just thought a oddity ( wood shell) and it caught my eye. Touch up paint on hopefully only on the front of the cab. Didn't really look hard at the other pictures. Jim H

@@attachment@@

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17824	From: John H	Date: 12/6/2011
Subject: Re: Engine I won

Jim, Nice looking engine! Wood huh? Almost unbelievable if it looks as good once you get it as it does in the photos. Gotta be scratch built. And well done. Keep us informed. Good buy. John Hagen --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: Engine I won > Date: Tue, 06 Dec 2011 14:59:11 -0500 > From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> > To: yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com > > > > I'm assuming a lot of people were watching that Hiawatha and the > other scratch built engines and i hope some member got at least one of > them. > I had no intention of bidding on them as I found something I did bid and won > > Look at the picture I sent Go to item 230708036336 Vintage HO > scale New Haven powered engine with wood shell. Looks Like I might have > to replace the Lindsay motor but we will see when it gets here. Just > thought a oddity ( wood shell) and it caught my eye. Touch up paint on > hopefully only on the front of the cab. Didn't really look hard at the > other pictures. > > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17825	From: chrisb_acw_rr@yahoo.com	Date: 12/6/2011
Subject: Re: Engine I won [1 Attachment]

Nice Win! No chance of zinc rot! Any sign of termites or wood worms? Chris B. Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> Sender: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 06 Dec 2011 15:02:55 -0500 To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> ReplyTo: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: [vintageHO] Engine I won [1 Attachment]   -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Engine I won Date: Tue, 06 Dec 2011 14:59:11 -0500 From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> To: yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com I'm assuming a lot of people were watching that Hiawatha and the other scratch built engines and i hope some member got at least one of them. I had no intention of bidding on them as I found something I did bid and won Look at the picture I sent Go to item 230708036336 Vintage HO scale New Haven powered engine with wood shell. Looks Like I might have to replace the Lindsay motor but we will see when it gets here. Just thought a oddity ( wood shell) and it caught my eye. Touch up paint on hopefully only on the front of the cab. Didn't really look hard at the other pictures. Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17826	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 12/6/2011
Subject: Don't understand what happened

I sent to both Vintage ho and yardbird ho yet the one to Vintage HO is showing sent to yardbird. My computer shows 1 email to each group under the items sent. Sorry I don't know what happened and i had the adressed 1 to each group. I'm stumped. Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17827	From: John H	Date: 12/6/2011
Subject: Re: Don't understand what happened

It showed up on both groups on my computer. John Hagen --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > > I sent to both Vintage ho and yardbird ho yet the one to Vintage > HO is showing sent to yardbird. My computer shows 1 email to each group > under the items sent. Sorry I don't know what happened and i had the > adressed 1 to each group. I'm stumped. > > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17828	From: Dennis Thompson	Date: 12/6/2011
Subject: Re: Don't understand what happened

Hi Jim: Great to see you back. I'm on a couple groups.....mailing list type. When I send a post to the List, I never see my post come to my email. Really threw me for a while until I visited the Yahoogroups site, clicked on messages, and, yup, there was my post. So all the List subscribers get an email of it except me. So for me, at times at least, Yahoo happily posts my messages but never bothers to let me know it was done. I guess the post office does the same thing to my letters now that I think about it. ?? Merry Christmas, Dennis Odessa/Ritzville, E WA state where my locomotives have their ear muffs on this morning.............. At 12:34 PM 12/6/2011, you wrote: > I sent to both Vintage ho and yardbird ho yet the one to Vintage >HO is showing sent to yardbird. My computer shows 1 email to each group >under the items sent. Sorry I don't know what happened and i had the >adressed 1 to each group. I'm stumped. > > >Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17829	From: Dennis Thompson	Date: 12/6/2011
Subject: Re: Engine I won [1 Attachment]

Wow.  What a drive train on that model.  Shell looks pretty good too.  Went to a good home. Nice. Dennis At 12:02 PM 12/6/2011, you wrote: [ Attachment(s) from Jim Heckard included below]     I'm assuming a lot of people were watching that Hiawatha and the other scratch built engines and i hope some member got at least one of them. I had no intention of bidding on them as I found something I did bid and won     Look at the picture I sent Go to item  230708036336    Vintage HO scale New Haven powered engine with wood shell. Looks Like I might have to replace the Lindsay motor but we will see when it gets here. Just thought a oddity ( wood shell) and it caught my eye. Touch up paint on hopefully only on the front of the cab. Didn't really look hard at the other pictures.                                                            Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17830	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 12/6/2011
Subject: Re: Engine I won [1 Attachment]

Hi Jim, Somewhere around here I have a vintage '40s or '50s Craftsman or MR with a feature series on building a steam loco from wood. Some of our modeling ancestors were really dedicated to the hobby - "...if I can't buy metal, I'll use wood..." On 12/6/11, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: Engine I won > Date: Tue, 06 Dec 2011 14:59:11 -0500 > From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> > To: yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com > > > > I'm assuming a lot of people were watching that Hiawatha and the > other scratch built engines and i hope some member got at least one of > them. > I had no intention of bidding on them as I found something I did bid and won > > Look at the picture I sent Go to item 230708036336 Vintage HO > scale New Haven powered engine with wood shell. Looks Like I might have > to replace the Lindsay motor but we will see when it gets here. Just > thought a oddity ( wood shell) and it caught my eye. Touch up paint on > hopefully only on the front of the cab. Didn't really look hard at the > other pictures. > > Jim H > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17831	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 12/6/2011
Subject: Re: Don't understand what happened

----- Original Message ----- From: "Dennis Thompson" <dbtrail@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2011 2:53 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Don't understand what happened > Hi Jim: > Great to see you back. > > I'm on a couple groups.....mailing list type. When I send a post to > the List, I never see my post come to my email. Really threw me for > a while until I visited the Yahoogroups site, clicked on messages, > and, yup, there was my post. So all the List subscribers get an > email of it except me. > > So for me, at times at least, Yahoo happily posts my messages but > never bothers to let me know it was done. I guess the post office > does the same thing to my letters now that I think about it. > > ?? That's not yahoo, that's YOUR ISP. A lot of spam filters will delete mail that shows being sent to and from the same address. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17832	From: Alan	Date: 12/6/2011
Subject: Re: Don't understand what happened

Welcome to my world if it doesn't pop up in spam immediately it usually shows up in a week or so. although others get it.Give it some time. Alan --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > > I sent to both Vintage ho and yardbird ho yet the one to Vintage > HO is showing sent to yardbird. My computer shows 1 email to each group > under the items sent. Sorry I don't know what happened and i had the > adressed 1 to each group. I'm stumped. > > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17833	From: Glenn	Date: 12/6/2011
Subject: Re: Engine I won

I think there was a series in MR titled "Kitchen Table Locomotive" where the boiler and tender were built from wood. gj -----Original Message----- From: Jacob Bechtel Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2011 7:27 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Engine I won Hi Jim, Somewhere around here I have a vintage '40s or '50s Craftsman or MR with a feature series on building a steam loco from wood. Some of our modeling ancestors were really dedicated to the hobby - "...if I can't buy metal, I'll use wood..." On 12/6/11, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: Engine I won > Date: Tue, 06 Dec 2011 14:59:11 -0500 > From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> > To: yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com > > > > I'm assuming a lot of people were watching that Hiawatha and the > other scratch built engines and i hope some member got at least one of > them. > I had no intention of bidding on them as I found something I did bid and > won > > Look at the picture I sent Go to item 230708036336 Vintage HO > scale New Haven powered engine with wood shell. Looks Like I might have > to replace the Lindsay motor but we will see when it gets here. Just > thought a oddity ( wood shell) and it caught my eye. Touch up paint on > hopefully only on the front of the cab. Didn't really look hard at the > other pictures. > > Jim H > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17834	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 12/7/2011
Subject: Re: Engine I won

That's the one. "Kitchen Table Locomotive" I still recall an article in MR around the middle 60's that detailed the models of a fellow in Chicago where he built from card-stock and wood several major HO models, and he powered them. I believe his first name was George. There was an Erie Triplex, a Jawn Henry N&W turbine, an UP E2 set and more than a dozen others of large and small HO models. I look forward to rediscovering this when I get my early Xmas gift of the MR library. There certainly is nothing wrong with modeling in wood and/or card-stock. Mike Bauers On Dec 7, 2011, at 1:40 AM, Glenn wrote: > I think there was a series in MR titled "Kitchen Table Locomotive" where > the boiler and tender were built from wood. gj > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jacob Bechtel > > Hi Jim, > Somewhere around here I have a vintage '40s or '50s Craftsman or MR > with a feature series on building a steam loco from wood. Some of our > modeling ancestors were really dedicated to the hobby - "...if I can't > buy metal, I'll use wood..." > > On 12/6/11, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: >> >> >> -------- Original Message -------- >> Subject: Engine I won >> >> >> I'm assuming a lot of people were watching that Hiawatha and the >> other scratch built engines and i hope some member got at least one of >> them. >> I had no intention of bidding on them as I found something I did bid and >> won >> >> Look at the picture I sent Go to item 230708036336 Vintage HO >> scale New Haven powered engine with wood shell. Looks Like I might have >> to replace the Lindsay motor but we will see when it gets here. Just >> thought a oddity ( wood shell) and it caught my eye. Touch up paint on >> hopefully only on the front of the cab. Didn't really look hard at the >> other pictures. >> >> Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17835	From: RalphB	Date: 12/7/2011
Subject: Re: Engine I won

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard wrote: > I found something I did bid and won > > Look at the picture I sent Go to item 230708036336 Vintage HO > scale New Haven powered engine with wood shell. Looks Like I might have > to replace the Lindsay motor but we will see when it gets here. Just > thought a oddity ( wood shell) and it caught my eye. ----------------------- Nice find, Jim. If that was basically carved out of a solid block it would be the work of a real craftsman. What I noticed is that only the two outer axles are powered - just like the prototype, a real A1A-A1A, not the all-axles-powered of most models. Ralph Balfoort

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17836	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 12/7/2011
Subject: Re: Engine I won

Hi folks, Actually, there were 3 series of articles for scratchbuilding a locomotive on your kitchen table.  Charles Smith did one on a 4-4-0, 0-6-0, and a 2-8-2.  These were all based on using Mantua parts, including drivers and frames.  They were really pretty good articles to get a low buck engine and done properly, they looked really good.  All boilers and tenders were made of wood.  The detail parts were various materials, wood, wire, tinplate, brass, etc.  Very few purchased detail parts were used. Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: glenn476@... Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2011 23:40:08 -0800 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Engine I won   I think there was a series in MR titled "Kitchen Table Locomotive" where the boiler and tender were built from wood. gj -----Original Message----- From: Jacob Bechtel Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2011 7:27 PM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Engine I won Hi Jim, Somewhere around here I have a vintage '40s or '50s Craftsman or MR with a feature series on building a steam loco from wood. Some of our modeling ancestors were really dedicated to the hobby - "...if I can't buy metal, I'll use wood..." On 12/6/11, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: Engine I won > Date: Tue, 06 Dec 2011 14:59:11 -0500 > From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> > To: yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com > > > > I'm assuming a lot of people were watching that Hiawatha and the > other scratch built engines and i hope some member got at least one of > them. > I had no intention of bidding on them as I found something I did bid and > won > > Look at the picture I sent Go to item 230708036336 Vintage HO > scale New Haven powered engine with wood shell. Looks Like I might have > to replace the Lindsay motor but we will see when it gets here. Just > thought a oddity ( wood shell) and it caught my eye. Touch up paint on > hopefully only on the front of the cab. Didn't really look hard at the > other pictures. > > Jim H > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17837	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 12/7/2011
Subject: Re: Engine I won

----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Bauers" <mwbauers55@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2011 5:03 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Engine I won > That's the one. "Kitchen Table Locomotive" > > I still recall an article in MR around the middle 60's that detailed the > models of a fellow in Chicago where he built from card-stock and wood > several major HO models, and he powered them. I believe his first name was > George. > > There was an Erie Triplex, a Jawn Henry N&W turbine, an UP E2 set and more > than a dozen others of large and small HO models. > > I look forward to rediscovering this when I get my early Xmas gift of the > MR library. > > There certainly is nothing wrong with modeling in wood and/or card-stock. > > Mike Bauers I'm wondering if that is the same fellow I used to see at Wheaton. This guy (who's work was pictured in MR) made passenger cars of Kleenex and Elmer's glue over a wood form. I almost bought a Milwaukee Road skytop from him once, holding the models in your hand you'd think they were brass. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17838	From: Nelson	Date: 12/7/2011
Subject: Re: Engine I won [1 Attachment]

It has a Lindsay drive. Interesting that the builder put a piece of mesh over the opening in the motor to keep metal filings out of it. Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Dennis Thompson <dbtrail@...> wrote: > > > Wow. What a drive train on that model. Shell looks pretty good > too. Went to a good home. > > Nice. > > Dennis

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17839	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 12/7/2011
Subject: Athearn Snap-on Truck?

All, While not purely a "vintage" HO scale question, this does concern an older Athearn piece, so I figure this is as good a place as any to ask: Someone gave me a bunch of HO scale stuff a few months ago, mostly Athearn, AHM, and Rivarossi, with some Mantua/Tyco thrown in. I got around to an older Athearn 40' flatcar, lettered for the Seaboard. Appears to have the deck mounts for a boat, or maybe the Beechcraft airplane, not quite sure, but it has some mounting apparatus on the deck. The car has metal coupler clips as used until the end of the Blue Box era. What really interested me, was when I tried to remove the trucks to make replacing couplers easier (Besides, the trucks seemed a little tight!). What looked like a standard slotted head screw, turned out to be plastic, as when I tried to unscrew the truck kingpin, that "head" cracked apart! Closer inspection revealed that it was a plastic snap molded into the car deck piece. The underframe had a larger-than-usual hole where the kingpin sits, and the snap goes through. Of course the one snap is totally gone, so I am thinking of the best way to re-mount trucks! I have never seen an Athearn with a truck mount system like this - when was this made? How long did this system last? I can't imagine it lasting long - replacing the trucks seems to mean replacing the car, too! -Steve Neubaum

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17840	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 12/7/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn Snap-on Truck?

I've never seen anything like that on an Athearn piece. The boat and plane flats that I had used standard Athearn truck mount. I have seen it on some European and far east bilt cars. Walthers used to make a bushing to fill the hole and then use a 2-56 screw to mount. Now I use a piece of plasti-struct tubing to fill the hole and a screw for mounting. Jake Bechtel Gadsden, AL On 12/7/11, Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote: > All, > > While not purely a "vintage" HO scale question, this does concern an older > Athearn piece, so I figure this is as good a place as any to ask: > > Someone gave me a bunch of HO scale stuff a few months ago, mostly Athearn, > AHM, and Rivarossi, with some Mantua/Tyco thrown in. > > I got around to an older Athearn 40' flatcar, lettered for the Seaboard. > Appears to have the deck mounts for a boat, or maybe the Beechcraft > airplane, not quite sure, but it has some mounting apparatus on the deck. > > The car has metal coupler clips as used until the end of the Blue Box era. > > What really interested me, was when I tried to remove the trucks to make > replacing couplers easier (Besides, the trucks seemed a little tight!). What > looked like a standard slotted head screw, turned out to be plastic, as when > I tried to unscrew the truck kingpin, that "head" cracked apart! > > Closer inspection revealed that it was a plastic snap molded into the car > deck piece. The underframe had a larger-than-usual hole where the kingpin > sits, and the snap goes through. > > Of course the one snap is totally gone, so I am thinking of the best way to > re-mount trucks! > > I have never seen an Athearn with a truck mount system like this - when was > this made? How long did this system last? I can't imagine it lasting long - > replacing the trucks seems to mean replacing the car, too! > > -Steve Neubaum >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17841	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 12/7/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn Snap-on Truck?

Right, I know about the bushing one can make for AHM and similar. On those the male snap is on the truck, same as Tyco cars. This is the other way around - the male end protrudes downwards from the underside of the carbody (Really a deck in this case). Standard Athearn Timken trucks otherwise. I think my camera is at my shop. While I could walk over and get it, knowing me, I would end up working on a project, and end up not coming home for a few hours. Best leave it to tomorrow! -Steve Neubaum --- On Wed, 12/7/11, Jacob Bechtel <jhbivusa@...> wrote: From: Jacob Bechtel <jhbivusa@...> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Athearn Snap-on Truck? To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, December 7, 2011, 10:06 PM   I've never seen anything like that on an Athearn piece. The boat and plane flats that I had used standard Athearn truck mount. I have seen it on some European and far east bilt cars. Walthers used to make a bushing to fill the hole and then use a 2-56 screw to mount. Now I use a piece of plasti-struct tubing to fill the hole and a screw for mounting. Jake Bechtel Gadsden, AL On 12/7/11, Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote: > All, > > While not purely a "vintage" HO scale question, this does concern an older > Athearn piece, so I figure this is as good a place as any to ask: > > Someone gave me a bunch of HO scale stuff a few months ago, mostly Athearn, > AHM, and Rivarossi, with some Mantua/Tyco thrown in. > > I got around to an older Athearn 40' flatcar, lettered for the Seaboard. > Appears to have the deck mounts for a boat, or maybe the Beechcraft > airplane, not quite sure, but it has some mounting apparatus on the deck. > > The car has metal coupler clips as used until the end of the Blue Box era. > > What really interested me, was when I tried to remove the trucks to make > replacing couplers easier (Besides, the trucks seemed a little tight!). What > looked like a standard slotted head screw, turned out to be plastic, as when > I tried to unscrew the truck kingpin, that "head" cracked apart! > > Closer inspection revealed that it was a plastic snap molded into the car > deck piece. The underframe had a larger-than-usual hole where the kingpin > sits, and the snap goes through. > > Of course the one snap is totally gone, so I am thinking of the best way to > re-mount trucks! > > I have never seen an Athearn with a truck mount system like this - when was > this made? How long did this system last? I can't imagine it lasting long - > replacing the trucks seems to mean replacing the car, too! > > -Steve Neubaum >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17842	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 12/7/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn Snap-on Truck?

Lionel made some stuff like that in O-27 at one time and once upon a time they had Athearn make some stuff for them - is it possible? Jake On 12/7/11, Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote: > Right, I know about the bushing one can make for AHM and similar. On those > the male snap is on the truck, same as Tyco cars. This is the other way > around - the male end protrudes downwards from the underside of the carbody > (Really a deck in this case). Standard Athearn Timken trucks otherwise. > > I think my camera is at my shop. While I could walk over and get it, knowing > me, I would end up working on a project, and end up not coming home for a > few hours. Best leave it to tomorrow! > > -Steve Neubaum > > --- On Wed, 12/7/11, Jacob Bechtel <jhbivusa@...> wrote: > > From: Jacob Bechtel <jhbivusa@...> > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Athearn Snap-on Truck? > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, December 7, 2011, 10:06 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I've never seen anything like that on an Athearn piece. The boat and > > plane flats that I had used standard Athearn truck mount. I have seen > > it on some European and far east bilt cars. Walthers used to make a > > bushing to fill the hole and then use a 2-56 screw to mount. Now I > > use a piece of plasti-struct tubing to fill the hole and a screw for > > mounting. > > Jake Bechtel > > Gadsden, AL > > > > On 12/7/11, Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote: > >> All, > >> > >> While not purely a "vintage" HO scale question, this does concern an older > >> Athearn piece, so I figure this is as good a place as any to ask: > >> > >> Someone gave me a bunch of HO scale stuff a few months ago, mostly >> Athearn, > >> AHM, and Rivarossi, with some Mantua/Tyco thrown in. > >> > >> I got around to an older Athearn 40' flatcar, lettered for the Seaboard. > >> Appears to have the deck mounts for a boat, or maybe the Beechcraft > >> airplane, not quite sure, but it has some mounting apparatus on the deck. > >> > >> The car has metal coupler clips as used until the end of the Blue Box era. > >> > >> What really interested me, was when I tried to remove the trucks to make > >> replacing couplers easier (Besides, the trucks seemed a little tight!). >> What > >> looked like a standard slotted head screw, turned out to be plastic, as >> when > >> I tried to unscrew the truck kingpin, that "head" cracked apart! > >> > >> Closer inspection revealed that it was a plastic snap molded into the car > >> deck piece. The underframe had a larger-than-usual hole where the kingpin > >> sits, and the snap goes through. > >> > >> Of course the one snap is totally gone, so I am thinking of the best way >> to > >> re-mount trucks! > >> > >> I have never seen an Athearn with a truck mount system like this - when >> was > >> this made? How long did this system last? I can't imagine it lasting long >> - > >> replacing the trucks seems to mean replacing the car, too! > >> > >> -Steve Neubaum > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17843	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 12/7/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn Snap-on Truck?

Lionel crossed my mind too, as they did have airplane and boat load flatcars in HO. I think Athearn made the stuff for Lionel before Athearn switched to plastic trucks. Not quite sure about this, though. While it is generally possible that trucks can be switched, this snap system doesn't seem to lend to doing so very well. Off-topic, but I know very well about Lionel's snap kingpin, a 1970s creation. Their hi-cube boxcars used it, as did many train set cars. Those rivets are pure junk. Often there is far too much play between the truck and car floor. Generally I use a nut and bolt with washers to replace this rivet, then hold the nut in place with blue thread locker. Really improves the cars a lot, and moreso when I use metal postwar bettendorf trucks. This adds badly needed tracking weight. -Steve --- On Thu, 12/8/11, Jacob Bechtel <jhbivusa@...> wrote: From: Jacob Bechtel <jhbivusa@...> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Athearn Snap-on Truck? To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, December 8, 2011, 12:18 AM   Lionel made some stuff like that in O-27 at one time and once upon a time they had Athearn make some stuff for them - is it possible? Jake On 12/7/11, Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote: > Right, I know about the bushing one can make for AHM and similar. On those > the male snap is on the truck, same as Tyco cars. This is the other way > around - the male end protrudes downwards from the underside of the carbody > (Really a deck in this case). Standard Athearn Timken trucks otherwise. > > I think my camera is at my shop. While I could walk over and get it, knowing > me, I would end up working on a project, and end up not coming home for a > few hours. Best leave it to tomorrow! > > -Steve Neubaum > > --- On Wed, 12/7/11, Jacob Bechtel <jhbivusa@...> wrote: > > From: Jacob Bechtel <jhbivusa@...> > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Athearn Snap-on Truck? > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, December 7, 2011, 10:06 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I've never seen anything like that on an Athearn piece. The boat and > > plane flats that I had used standard Athearn truck mount. I have seen > > it on some European and far east bilt cars. Walthers used to make a > > bushing to fill the hole and then use a 2-56 screw to mount. Now I > > use a piece of plasti-struct tubing to fill the hole and a screw for > > mounting. > > Jake Bechtel > > Gadsden, AL > > > > On 12/7/11, Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote: > >> All, > >> > >> While not purely a "vintage" HO scale question, this does concern an older > >> Athearn piece, so I figure this is as good a place as any to ask: > >> > >> Someone gave me a bunch of HO scale stuff a few months ago, mostly >> Athearn, > >> AHM, and Rivarossi, with some Mantua/Tyco thrown in. > >> > >> I got around to an older Athearn 40' flatcar, lettered for the Seaboard. > >> Appears to have the deck mounts for a boat, or maybe the Beechcraft > >> airplane, not quite sure, but it has some mounting apparatus on the deck. > >> > >> The car has metal coupler clips as used until the end of the Blue Box era. > >> > >> What really interested me, was when I tried to remove the trucks to make > >> replacing couplers easier (Besides, the trucks seemed a little tight!). >> What > >> looked like a standard slotted head screw, turned out to be plastic, as >> when > >> I tried to unscrew the truck kingpin, that "head" cracked apart! > >> > >> Closer inspection revealed that it was a plastic snap molded into the car > >> deck piece. The underframe had a larger-than-usual hole where the kingpin > >> sits, and the snap goes through. > >> > >> Of course the one snap is totally gone, so I am thinking of the best way >> to > >> re-mount trucks! > >> > >> I have never seen an Athearn with a truck mount system like this - when >> was > >> this made? How long did this system last? I can't imagine it lasting long >> - > >> replacing the trucks seems to mean replacing the car, too! > >> > >> -Steve Neubaum > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17844	From: RalphB	Date: 12/8/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn Snap-on Truck?

-- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Neubaum wrote: > > Standard Athearn Timken trucks otherwise. > ---------------------- I'm not thinking Athearn if the car has Timken (or any other brand of) roller bearing trucks. With all the older Athearn Blue Box kits in my collection (and I keep adding more), it appears that all the earlier kits, including the flat car, came with 50-ton solid bearing, cast sideframe, double-truss (commonly referred to as "Bettendorf") trucks. Athearn's roller bearing trucks were used under 70- and 100-ton capacity cars. The problem with these trucks is that they're a 100-ton design, but they used the common 33-inch wheels. If you want to learn more about this subject, go to http://mrr.trains.com/~/media/import/files/pdf/4/c/c/mr_pi_5-06_freightcartrucks.ashx Ralph Balfoort

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17845	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 12/8/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn Snap-on Truck?

Stephen, In my boxes I have ONE Marx HO flat car. It originally had a load on it that is long lost and replaced by a Selly gear. It has that post-through-the-floor truck mount! But - the trucks have a split cross beam. AND - the car frame is clearly marked MARX. It would probably be possible to change the trucks but I can't imagine removing the MARX logo. I have been careful to not damage the original trucks just because it would be a bear to replace them. AND the coupler box uses a plastic pin swedge mount similar to some Varney and Life Like models. I'm left with the thought that you have a kitbash there. And who ever did it was pretty resourceful. Jake Bechtel Gadsden, AL On 12/8/11, Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote: > Lionel crossed my mind too, as they did have airplane and boat load flatcars > in HO. I think Athearn made the stuff for Lionel before Athearn switched to > plastic trucks. Not quite sure about this, though. While it is generally > possible that trucks can be switched, this snap system doesn't seem to lend > to doing so very well. > > Off-topic, but I know very well about Lionel's snap kingpin, a 1970s > creation. Their hi-cube boxcars used it, as did many train set cars. Those > rivets are pure junk. Often there is far too much play between the truck and > car floor. Generally I use a nut and bolt with washers to replace this > rivet, then hold the nut in place with blue thread locker. Really improves > the cars a lot, and moreso when I use metal postwar bettendorf trucks. This > adds badly needed tracking weight. > > -Steve > > --- On Thu, 12/8/11, Jacob Bechtel <jhbivusa@...> wrote: > > From: Jacob Bechtel <jhbivusa@...> > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Athearn Snap-on Truck? > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Date: Thursday, December 8, 2011, 12:18 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lionel made some stuff like that in O-27 at one time and once upon a > > time they had Athearn make some stuff for them - is it possible? > > Jake > > > > On 12/7/11, Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote: > >> Right, I know about the bushing one can make for AHM and similar. On those > >> the male snap is on the truck, same as Tyco cars. This is the other way > >> around - the male end protrudes downwards from the underside of the >> carbody > >> (Really a deck in this case). Standard Athearn Timken trucks otherwise. > >> > >> I think my camera is at my shop. While I could walk over and get it, >> knowing > >> me, I would end up working on a project, and end up not coming home for a > >> few hours. Best leave it to tomorrow! > >> > >> -Steve Neubaum > >> > >> --- On Wed, 12/7/11, Jacob Bechtel <jhbivusa@...> wrote: > >> > >> From: Jacob Bechtel <jhbivusa@...> > >> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Athearn Snap-on Truck? > >> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > >> Date: Wednesday, December 7, 2011, 10:06 PM > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> I've never seen anything like that on an Athearn piece. The boat >> and > >> > >> plane flats that I had used standard Athearn truck mount. I have seen > >> > >> it on some European and far east bilt cars. Walthers used to make a > >> > >> bushing to fill the hole and then use a 2-56 screw to mount. Now I > >> > >> use a piece of plasti-struct tubing to fill the hole and a screw for > >> > >> mounting. > >> > >> Jake Bechtel > >> > >> Gadsden, AL > >> > >> > >> > >> On 12/7/11, Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote: > >> > >>> All, > >> > >>> > >> > >>> While not purely a "vintage" HO scale question, this does concern an >>> older > >> > >>> Athearn piece, so I figure this is as good a place as any to ask: > >> > >>> > >> > >>> Someone gave me a bunch of HO scale stuff a few months ago, mostly > >>> Athearn, > >> > >>> AHM, and Rivarossi, with some Mantua/Tyco thrown in. > >> > >>> > >> > >>> I got around to an older Athearn 40' flatcar, lettered for the Seaboard. > >> > >>> Appears to have the deck mounts for a boat, or maybe the Beechcraft > >> > >>> airplane, not quite sure, but it has some mounting apparatus on the deck. > >> > >>> > >> > >>> The car has metal coupler clips as used until the end of the Blue Box >>> era. > >> > >>> > >> > >>> What really interested me, was when I tried to remove the trucks to make > >> > >>> replacing couplers easier (Besides, the trucks seemed a little tight!). > >>> What > >> > >>> looked like a standard slotted head screw, turned out to be plastic, as > >>> when > >> > >>> I tried to unscrew the truck kingpin, that "head" cracked apart! > >> > >>> > >> > >>> Closer inspection revealed that it was a plastic snap molded into the car > >> > >>> deck piece. The underframe had a larger-than-usual hole where the kingpin > >> > >>> sits, and the snap goes through. > >> > >>> > >> > >>> Of course the one snap is totally gone, so I am thinking of the best way > >>> to > >> > >>> re-mount trucks! > >> > >>> > >> > >>> I have never seen an Athearn with a truck mount system like this - when > >>> was > >> > >>> this made? How long did this system last? I can't imagine it lasting long > >>> - > >> > >>> replacing the trucks seems to mean replacing the car, too! > >> > >>> > >> > >>> -Steve Neubaum > >> > >>> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17846	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 12/8/2011
Subject: pre war varney plastic sided passenger

Attachments : IMG_7383.JPG IMG_7381.JPG IMG_7380.JPG -------- Original Message -------- Subject: pre war varney plastic sided passenger Date: From: To: About a week ago I decided to rebuild a 7 car set ( missing one car ) of the pre war Varney pre painted blue celluloid passenger cars that I've had sitting here. They needed to be taken all apart and the bodies glued together. They will need the wooden diaphragms taken off so the cars can all be sanded real good. ( the body at the bottom of the right sided was sanded ) and put back together. Again a time consuming task but I have lots of time since I'm feeling a little better. I have all the parts. Bodies, celluloid sides , Tanks and boxes for under the cars, all parts for the the couplers and trucks for 6 and 1/2 cars. One of the trucks that I need had a broken end where the wheel goes and I don't think I can make it strong enough to keep it together. I've sent a picture ( IMG_7387.JPG ) of the Varney truck (right side ) type I need. On the left side is the later Varney truck that used the same side frames but had a brass crossover piece. I will trade 4 of the brass type I don't need for 1 of the type I do need. Getting things ready till my wooden bodies New Haven engine gets here. At that point these cars will be put aside unfinished till I check out that engine I bought. Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 17847	From: rcjge	Date: 12/8/2011
Subject: 80' Walthers Pullman car 4 sale

Hey Guys: Had a buyer for this guy but I never heard back so I'm offering it again.... it's in the folder 4 sale-Gareth http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/photos/album/1502262637/pic/list I'm looking for $10 for it. Postage extra from just north of Toronto, Ont. Canada. Best, Gareth

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17848	From: Alan	Date: 12/8/2011
Subject: caboose id?

Does anyone know what make this caboose is,its listed as varney/fleishman? e-bay item #130611687079 Alan

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17849	From: jay matz	Date: 12/8/2011
Subject: Re: caboose id?

Alan If it is metal it is Roundhouse and if it is plastic it is Athearn Jay From: Alan <albyrno@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, December 8, 2011 3:45 PM Subject: [vintageHO] caboose id?   Does anyone know what make this caboose is,its listed as varney/fleishman? e-bay item #130611687079 Alan

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17850	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 12/8/2011
Subject: Re: caboose id?

Looks like a wood roof w/ sprung trucks, metal platforms and listed with metal cupola - I'd opt for something like Silver Streak or maybe a "cross-kit". But definately looks like a good buy. Looks more like ATSF than NYC though. Jake Bechtel Gadsden, AL On 12/8/11, Alan <albyrno@...> wrote: > Does anyone know what make this caboose is,its listed as varney/fleishman? > > e-bay item #130611687079 > Alan > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17851	From: ablecynic	Date: 12/8/2011
Subject: Vintage and Near vintage Collection for Trade

Being of the age where I realize I will never get all the projects done that I own, I am trying to rationalize my collection of vintage and semi-vintage HO. For those that might be interested, contact me off-list and I will send you my list. All the items are in photos in a file in our group so once you get the list, you can check against the photo. If you don't know how to reply just to the sender, my email address is: (in Yahoo avoidance script) mattjcoleman (at) aim (dot) com.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17852	From: Richard White	Date: 12/8/2011
Subject: Re: caboose id?

Al- this looks like a Roundhouse all-diecast caboose. -Richard W.   To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: jhbivusa@... Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2011 16:12:07 -0600 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] caboose id?   Looks like a wood roof w/ sprung trucks, metal platforms and listed with metal cupola - I'd opt for something like Silver Streak or maybe a "cross-kit". But definately looks like a good buy. Looks more like ATSF than NYC though. Jake Bechtel Gadsden, AL On 12/8/11, Alan <albyrno@...> wrote: > Does anyone know what make this caboose is,its listed as varney/fleishman? > > e-bay item #130611687079 > Alan > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17853	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 12/8/2011
Subject: Re: caboose id?

----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan" <albyrno@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2011 2:45 PM Subject: [vintageHO] caboose id? > Does anyone know what make this caboose is,its listed as varney/fleishman? > > e-bay item #130611687079 > Alan > If it's all diecast metal I have to add my vote to MDC Roundhouse. Varney's model of the Santa Fe Caboose was only available in Cardstock, Athearn's in plastic, and every Fleischman ad I've seen was a 4 wheel. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17854	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 12/8/2011
Subject: Re: caboose id?

I am still looking, but somewhere in this pile I have an 8-wheel Fleischmann caboose, looks Santa-Fe-ish, but with a definitely more European curve to the roof. If I find it, I'll post a photo. I was surprised when I saw it. Dave > > If it's all diecast metal I have to add my vote to MDC Roundhouse. Varney's > model of the Santa Fe Caboose was only available in Cardstock, Athearn's in > plastic, and every Fleischman ad I've seen was a 4 wheel. > > Don > > Don Dellmann > don.dellmann@... > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ > http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction > Owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17855	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 12/8/2011
Subject: Re: caboose id?

Found it. The morons that had these originally splatter-painted everything. I spent a hour getting who knows how much off one side. Fleischmann, made in Western Germany. Photos in photo section under an album titled "Fleischmann". Dave > If it's all diecast metal I have to add my vote to MDC Roundhouse. Varney's > model of the Santa Fe Caboose was only available in Cardstock, Athearn's in > plastic, and every Fleischman ad I've seen was a 4 wheel. > > Don > > Don Dellmann > don.dellmann@... > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ > http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction > Owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17856	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 12/8/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn Snap-on Truck?

Attachments : athearn_flat_2.jpg athearn_flat_1.jpg OK, I got a couple pictures. I also talked to the hobby shop owner. He said this was indeed an Athearn, he has one in his collection somewhere. He thinks it is from the 1950s, he said his dad got the same car when he was very young. Bob, the shop owner, was born in 1952, so the car he thinks was from the mid-late 1950s. I guess if it looks like a duck, and it quacks like a duck, it must be a duck! In this case, it looks like an Athearn, and it is built like an Athearn, so it must be an Athearn! What he told me, was that Athearn sold these kinds of cars in the mass-market sets. According to Bob, the sheet metal coupler box cover that lasted to the end of the Blue Box era, was actually developed for basic train set cars, as they were cheaper overall than screw-on coupler box covers. He does think the Timken trucks are a refit, as his car has metal trucks, which sounds right. Plastic trucks, as noted, came a bit later. He said these kinds of cars don't turn up too often. They weren't made very long this way either. More or less they were a response to the Marx train set cars at a time where Marx had a greater lead in HO train sets than Athearn did. This probably explains why a Marx car would have a similar setup. Also suggested I cut off what remains of the snaps, and drill them out to accept a #2 screw, then put some other trucks on (I will likely use Kadee Bettendorfs), as Athearn trucks have a larger kingpin hole than most other brands. Thanks all! -Steve Neubaum --- On Thu, 12/8/11, Jacob Bechtel <jhbivusa@...> wrote: From: Jacob Bechtel <jhbivusa@...> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Athearn Snap-on Truck? To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, December 8, 2011, 9:16 AM   Stephen, In my boxes I have ONE Marx HO flat car. It originally had a load on it that is long lost and replaced by a Selly gear. It has that post-through-the-floor truck mount! But - the trucks have a split cross beam. AND - the car frame is clearly marked MARX. It would probably be possible to change the trucks but I can't imagine removing the MARX logo. I have been careful to not damage the original trucks just because it would be a bear to replace them. AND the coupler box uses a plastic pin swedge mount similar to some Varney and Life Like models. I'm left with the thought that you have a kitbash there. And who ever did it was pretty resourceful. Jake Bechtel Gadsden, AL On 12/8/11, Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote: > Lionel crossed my mind too, as they did have airplane and boat load flatcars > in HO. I think Athearn made the stuff for Lionel before Athearn switched to > plastic trucks. Not quite sure about this, though. While it is generally > possible that trucks can be switched, this snap system doesn't seem to lend > to doing so very well. > > Off-topic, but I know very well about Lionel's snap kingpin, a 1970s > creation. Their hi-cube boxcars used it, as did many train set cars. Those > rivets are pure junk. Often there is far too much play between the truck and > car floor. Generally I use a nut and bolt with washers to replace this > rivet, then hold the nut in place with blue thread locker. Really improves > the cars a lot, and moreso when I use metal postwar bettendorf trucks. This > adds badly needed tracking weight. > > -Steve > > --- On Thu, 12/8/11, Jacob Bechtel <jhbivusa@...> wrote: > > From: Jacob Bechtel <jhbivusa@...> > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Athearn Snap-on Truck? > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Date: Thursday, December 8, 2011, 12:18 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lionel made some stuff like that in O-27 at one time and once upon a > > time they had Athearn make some stuff for them - is it possible? > > Jake > > > > On 12/7/11, Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote: > >> Right, I know about the bushing one can make for AHM and similar. On those > >> the male snap is on the truck, same as Tyco cars. This is the other way > >> around - the male end protrudes downwards from the underside of the >> carbody > >> (Really a deck in this case). Standard Athearn Timken trucks otherwise. > >> > >> I think my camera is at my shop. While I could walk over and get it, >> knowing > >> me, I would end up working on a project, and end up not coming home for a > >> few hours. Best leave it to tomorrow! > >> > >> -Steve Neubaum > >> > >> --- On Wed, 12/7/11, Jacob Bechtel <jhbivusa@...> wrote: > >> > >> From: Jacob Bechtel <jhbivusa@...> > >> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Athearn Snap-on Truck? > >> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > >> Date: Wednesday, December 7, 2011, 10:06 PM > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> I've never seen anything like that on an Athearn piece. The boat >> and > >> > >> plane flats that I had used standard Athearn truck mount. I have seen > >> > >> it on some European and far east bilt cars. Walthers used to make a > >> > >> bushing to fill the hole and then use a 2-56 screw to mount. Now I > >> > >> use a piece of plasti-struct tubing to fill the hole and a screw for > >> > >> mounting. > >> > >> Jake Bechtel > >> > >> Gadsden, AL > >> > >> > >> > >> On 12/7/11, Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote: > >> > >>> All, > >> > >>> > >> > >>> While not purely a "vintage" HO scale question, this does concern an >>> older > >> > >>> Athearn piece, so I figure this is as good a place as any to ask: > >> > >>> > >> > >>> Someone gave me a bunch of HO scale stuff a few months ago, mostly > >>> Athearn, > >> > >>> AHM, and Rivarossi, with some Mantua/Tyco thrown in. > >> > >>> > >> > >>> I got around to an older Athearn 40' flatcar, lettered for the Seaboard. > >> > >>> Appears to have the deck mounts for a boat, or maybe the Beechcraft > >> > >>> airplane, not quite sure, but it has some mounting apparatus on the deck. > >> > >>> > >> > >>> The car has metal coupler clips as used until the end of the Blue Box >>> era. > >> > >>> > >> > >>> What really interested me, was when I tried to remove the trucks to make > >> > >>> replacing couplers easier (Besides, the trucks seemed a little tight!). > >>> What > >> > >>> looked like a standard slotted head screw, turned out to be plastic, as > >>> when > >> > >>> I tried to unscrew the truck kingpin, that "head" cracked apart! > >> > >>> > >> > >>> Closer inspection revealed that it was a plastic snap molded into the car > >> > >>> deck piece. The underframe had a larger-than-usual hole where the kingpin > >> > >>> sits, and the snap goes through. > >> > >>> > >> > >>> Of course the one snap is totally gone, so I am thinking of the best way > >>> to > >> > >>> re-mount trucks! > >> > >>> > >> > >>> I have never seen an Athearn with a truck mount system like this - when > >>> was > >> > >>> this made? How long did this system last? I can't imagine it lasting long > >>> - > >> > >>> replacing the trucks seems to mean replacing the car, too! > >> > >>> > >> > >>> -Steve Neubaum > >> > >>> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 17857	From: ablecynic	Date: 12/9/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn Snap-on Truck?

Steve, Thanks for the photos. I have an almost identical car, but it has the more common truck attachment and the cast-metal sprung trucks with X2f couplers. Until I saw the photos, I just assumed that it was a hobbyist retrofit, but those look like a factory setup. Thanks for shedding a bit of light on something I have only heard of but not seen. Matt --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote: > > OK, I got a couple pictures. > > I also talked to the hobby shop owner. He said this was indeed an Athearn, he has one in his collection somewhere. He thinks it is from the 1950s, he said his dad got the same car when he was very young. Bob, the shop owner, was born in 1952, so the car he thinks was from the mid-late 1950s. > > I guess if it looks like a duck, and it quacks like a duck, it must be a duck! In this case, it looks like an Athearn, and it is built like an Athearn, so it must be an Athearn! > > What he told me, was that Athearn sold these kinds of cars in the mass-market sets. According to Bob, the sheet metal coupler box cover that lasted to the end of the Blue Box era, was actually developed for basic train set cars, as they were cheaper overall than screw-on coupler box covers. He does think the Timken trucks are a refit, as his car has metal trucks, which sounds right. Plastic trucks, as noted, came a bit later. > > He said these kinds of cars don't turn up too often. They weren't made very long this way either. More or less they were a response to the Marx train set cars at a time where Marx had a greater lead in HO train sets than Athearn did. This probably explains why a Marx car would have a similar setup. > > Also suggested I cut off what remains of the snaps, and drill them out to accept a #2 screw, then put some other trucks on (I will likely use Kadee Bettendorfs), as Athearn trucks have a larger kingpin hole than most other brands. > > Thanks all! >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17858	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 12/9/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn Snap-on Truck?

I really wonder about the dating though. My First Athearn train set was December 1959. It had conventional screw on trucks, but still had screw on coupler pocket covers. The first I ever saw of the snap-on metal coupler covers was in the mid 1960's. I wonder if this might have been something Athearn did for someone else? We all know Athearn made Lionel's production ca. 1960 or so, also Herkimer about the same time, and in later years Cox and even the first Atlas HO sets. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "ablecynic" <mattjcoleman@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, December 09, 2011 1:26 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Athearn Snap-on Truck? > Steve, > > Thanks for the photos. I have an almost identical car, but it has the more > common truck attachment and the cast-metal sprung trucks with X2f > couplers. Until I saw the photos, I just assumed that it was a hobbyist > retrofit, but those look like a factory setup. Thanks for shedding a bit > of light on something I have only heard of but not seen. > > Matt > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Neubaum > <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote: >> >> OK, I got a couple pictures. >> >> I also talked to the hobby shop owner. He said this was indeed an >> Athearn, he has one in his collection somewhere. He thinks it is from the >> 1950s, he said his dad got the same car when he was very young. Bob, the >> shop owner, was born in 1952, so the car he thinks was from the mid-late >> 1950s. >> >> I guess if it looks like a duck, and it quacks like a duck, it must be a >> duck! In this case, it looks like an Athearn, and it is built like an >> Athearn, so it must be an Athearn! >> >> What he told me, was that Athearn sold these kinds of cars in the >> mass-market sets. According to Bob, the sheet metal coupler box cover >> that lasted to the end of the Blue Box era, was actually developed for >> basic train set cars, as they were cheaper overall than screw-on coupler >> box covers. He does think the Timken trucks are a refit, as his car has >> metal trucks, which sounds right. Plastic trucks, as noted, came a bit >> later. >> >> He said these kinds of cars don't turn up too often. They weren't made >> very long this way either. More or less they were a response to the Marx >> train set cars at a time where Marx had a greater lead in HO train sets >> than Athearn did. This probably explains why a Marx car would have a >> similar setup. >> >> Also suggested I cut off what remains of the snaps, and drill them out to >> accept a #2 screw, then put some other trucks on (I will likely use Kadee >> Bettendorfs), as Athearn trucks have a larger kingpin hole than most >> other brands. >> >> Thanks all! >> > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17859	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 12/9/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn Snap-on Truck?

Don, and all, The date could be questionable. Bob, the hobby shop owner, is a Veit Nam veteran. He suffered chemical exposure problems later on (Agent Orange, I think). He's had a number of strokes and heart attacks too. Frankly, it is almost a miracle that he is hanging on and doing reasonably well. He is, however, on well over a dozen different meds. Point is, it is entirely possible Bob could have the dates wrong a little bit, especially dealing with a model train car that is mostly unremarkable, and made about, or over, a half-century ago. -Steve Neubaum --- On Fri, 12/9/11, Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote: From: Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Athearn Snap-on Truck? To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, December 9, 2011, 6:08 PM   I really wonder about the dating though. My First Athearn train set was December 1959. It had conventional screw on trucks, but still had screw on coupler pocket covers. The first I ever saw of the snap-on metal coupler covers was in the mid 1960's. I wonder if this might have been something Athearn did for someone else? We all know Athearn made Lionel's production ca. 1960 or so, also Herkimer about the same time, and in later years Cox and even the first Atlas HO sets. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "ablecynic" <mattjcoleman@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, December 09, 2011 1:26 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Athearn Snap-on Truck? > Steve, > > Thanks for the photos. I have an almost identical car, but it has the more > common truck attachment and the cast-metal sprung trucks with X2f > couplers. Until I saw the photos, I just assumed that it was a hobbyist > retrofit, but those look like a factory setup. Thanks for shedding a bit > of light on something I have only heard of but not seen. > > Matt > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Neubaum > <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote: >> >> OK, I got a couple pictures. >> >> I also talked to the hobby shop owner. He said this was indeed an >> Athearn, he has one in his collection somewhere. He thinks it is from the >> 1950s, he said his dad got the same car when he was very young. Bob, the >> shop owner, was born in 1952, so the car he thinks was from the mid-late >> 1950s. >> >> I guess if it looks like a duck, and it quacks like a duck, it must be a >> duck! In this case, it looks like an Athearn, and it is built like an >> Athearn, so it must be an Athearn! >> >> What he told me, was that Athearn sold these kinds of cars in the >> mass-market sets. According to Bob, the sheet metal coupler box cover >> that lasted to the end of the Blue Box era, was actually developed for >> basic train set cars, as they were cheaper overall than screw-on coupler >> box covers. He does think the Timken trucks are a refit, as his car has >> metal trucks, which sounds right. Plastic trucks, as noted, came a bit >> later. >> >> He said these kinds of cars don't turn up too often. They weren't made >> very long this way either. More or less they were a response to the Marx >> train set cars at a time where Marx had a greater lead in HO train sets >> than Athearn did. This probably explains why a Marx car would have a >> similar setup. >> >> Also suggested I cut off what remains of the snaps, and drill them out to >> accept a #2 screw, then put some other trucks on (I will likely use Kadee >> Bettendorfs), as Athearn trucks have a larger kingpin hole than most >> other brands. >> >> Thanks all! >> > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17860	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 12/9/2011
Subject: Re: Athearn Snap-on Truck?

Thanks Steve and Matt, Your posts help explain why it reminded me of my Marx flat car, and yes I remember that Marx had an edge in the HO RTR train sets in the 50s. Of course, Marx was available at Wards and almost every dime store in the nation. Off hand, I can't remamber another HO train set maker from the mid 50s except Flyer, what Lionel HO there was didn't look like remotely a US train so I just wasn't interested in them. Jake Bechtel Gadsden, AL On 12/9/11, ablecynic <mattjcoleman@...> wrote: > Steve, > > Thanks for the photos. I have an almost identical car, but it has the more > common truck attachment and the cast-metal sprung trucks with X2f couplers. > Until I saw the photos, I just assumed that it was a hobbyist retrofit, but > those look like a factory setup. Thanks for shedding a bit of light on > something I have only heard of but not seen. > > Matt > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Neubaum > <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote: >> >> OK, I got a couple pictures. >> >> I also talked to the hobby shop owner. He said this was indeed an Athearn, >> he has one in his collection somewhere. He thinks it is from the 1950s, he >> said his dad got the same car when he was very young. Bob, the shop owner, >> was born in 1952, so the car he thinks was from the mid-late 1950s. >> >> I guess if it looks like a duck, and it quacks like a duck, it must be a >> duck! In this case, it looks like an Athearn, and it is built like an >> Athearn, so it must be an Athearn! >> >> What he told me, was that Athearn sold these kinds of cars in the >> mass-market sets. According to Bob, the sheet metal coupler box cover that >> lasted to the end of the Blue Box era, was actually developed for basic >> train set cars, as they were cheaper overall than screw-on coupler box >> covers. He does think the Timken trucks are a refit, as his car has metal >> trucks, which sounds right. Plastic trucks, as noted, came a bit later. >> >> He said these kinds of cars don't turn up too often. They weren't made >> very long this way either. More or less they were a response to the Marx >> train set cars at a time where Marx had a greater lead in HO train sets >> than Athearn did. This probably explains why a Marx car would have a >> similar setup. >> >> Also suggested I cut off what remains of the snaps, and drill them out to >> accept a #2 screw, then put some other trucks on (I will likely use Kadee >> Bettendorfs), as Athearn trucks have a larger kingpin hole than most other >> brands. >> >> Thanks all! >> > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17861	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 12/10/2011
Subject: Fwd: New Haven Wood bodied Diesel

Attachments : IMG_7412_1.JPG IMG_7410_1.JPG IMG_7409_1.JPG IMG_7408_1.JPG IMG_7407_1.JPG -------- Original Message -------- New Haven Wood bodied Diesel Sat, 10 Dec 2011 14:05:55 -0500 Today I received that wooden New Haven Diesel. The drive and the metal framework that holds it all together is the Lindsay 6 wheel ( 4 powered )that was used by Lindsay for his metal PA Diesel. I will check that out making sure it works and runs right. Oil and lube if needed and tighten things up especially the one truck. One thing made me laugh and maybe you can see it on the one picture. Seller / Builder must have run out of money or wire The wire from the one truck that runs on top of the framework back to the motor is 4 small pieces soldered together . I also no one of the reasons why it didn't run. The other electrical connection to the other truck is broken. As for the body it definitely is hand made. It's not to bad. There are some small pieces like in the windshield that need to be fixed. Also the paint is nicked in a couple of places. I hope Army Drab is close in color to the body. I don't feel like painting and lettering. As for lettering the words New Haven are decals but the yellow nose and stripe down the sides are hand painted. It is another odd piece that will require some time to fix. Oh well it's winter and this and my Varney blue celluloid sides and wooden bodies will keep me busy. I will switch back and forth so I don't get bored on either one. Happy Holidays Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 17862	From: rcjge	Date: 12/10/2011
Subject: JE Pacific was based on....

Hey Guys, Can someone help me out... My understanding was that the JE Pacific was based on a Light USRA Pacific but had a Santa Fe cab. I believe the drivers scale out at 73". Anybody weigh in on this? -Best, Gareth

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17863	From: Brent	Date: 12/15/2011
Subject: Roundhouse 5L-2 0-6-0T Tank Switcher

Ladies and Gentlemen Could you please tell me of your experiences with above model? I have bought a secondhand 1. Many Thanks Brent Manchester England

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17864	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 12/15/2011
Subject: Re: Roundhouse 5L-2 0-6-0T Tank Switcher

Is it the later plastic body or the older metal body version ??? Mike Bauers On Dec 15, 2011, at 6:11 AM, Brent wrote: > Ladies and Gentlemen > > Could you please tell me of your experiences with above model? > > I have bought a secondhand 1.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17865	From: cwrailman	Date: 12/15/2011
Subject: New CWRailman WEB site up and running

I've got the new CWRailman WEB site up and running. Come take a look around at: CWRailman.com Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17866	From: hawk53965	Date: 12/16/2011
Subject: Re: Engine I won

I'm a little confused, the photo of the wood bodied engine is a diesel, but the conversations seem to be about articles building a steam engine. At any rate, while looking for something else, I found and article in August 1953 Model Railroader by Bob Klubertanz titled "Home Built Road Diesel" describing the building of an Alco diesel using a wood block for a body, and a Lindsey L740 power truck, universal shaft, and Lindsey L625 geared truck. Also listed are the side frames and other drive parts by Lindsey, and the brass sheet and wire parts used to make detail parts. The article ends (continued next month), so it is at least a 2 part article. It was very interesting. Drake Bixby Wisconsin Dells WI --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Glenn" <glenn476@...> wrote: > > I think there was a series in MR titled "Kitchen Table Locomotive" where > the boiler and tender were built from wood. gj > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jacob Bechtel > Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2011 7:27 PM > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Engine I won > > Hi Jim, > Somewhere around here I have a vintage '40s or '50s Craftsman or MR > with a feature series on building a steam loco from wood. Some of our > modeling ancestors were really dedicated to the hobby - "...if I can't > buy metal, I'll use wood..." > > On 12/6/11, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > > > > -------- Original Message -------- > > Subject: Engine I won > > Date: Tue, 06 Dec 2011 14:59:11 -0500 > > From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> > > To: yardbirdtrains@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > I'm assuming a lot of people were watching that Hiawatha and the > > other scratch built engines and i hope some member got at least one of > > them. > > I had no intention of bidding on them as I found something I did bid and > > won > > > > Look at the picture I sent Go to item 230708036336 Vintage HO > > scale New Haven powered engine with wood shell. Looks Like I might have > > to replace the Lindsay motor but we will see when it gets here. Just > > thought a oddity ( wood shell) and it caught my eye. Touch up paint on > > hopefully only on the front of the cab. Didn't really look hard at the > > other pictures. > > > > Jim H > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17867	From: John H	Date: 12/16/2011
Subject: Re: Engine I won

IIRC, the wood block served as a form for the sheet brass hood. The actual model was of all brass construction. John Hagen --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "hawk53965" <drake.bixby@...> wrote: > > I'm a little confused, the photo of the wood bodied engine is a diesel, but the conversations seem to be about articles building a steam engine. > > At any rate, while looking for something else, I found and article in August 1953 Model Railroader by Bob Klubertanz titled "Home Built Road Diesel" describing the building of an Alco diesel using a wood block for a body, and a Lindsey L740 power truck, universal shaft, and Lindsey L625 geared truck. Also listed are the side frames and other drive parts by Lindsey, and the brass sheet and wire parts used to make detail parts. The article ends (continued next month), so it is at least a 2 part article. It was very interesting. > > Drake Bixby > Wisconsin Dells WI

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17868	From: Brent	Date: 12/16/2011
Subject: Re: Roundhouse 5L-2 0-6-0T Tank Switcher

Mike Thank you for your reply. The body is plastic. It is slow, is this because of the gearing? Thanks again Brent --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote: > > Is it the later plastic body or the older metal body version ??? > > Mike Bauers > > On Dec 15, 2011, at 6:11 AM, Brent wrote: > > > Ladies and Gentlemen > > > > Could you please tell me of your experiences with above model? > > > > I have bought a secondhand 1. >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17869	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 12/16/2011
Subject: Re: Engine I won

Yep, the project required you to hammer a rather thick, .032" or .040", can't remember which thickness, sheet of brass around a carved hardwood mandrel that was shaped like an Alco FA/PA.  Bob Klubertanze also did an article for an RS-3 that was built in a similar fashion.  He did not say to anneal the brass, but the article implied you hammered the hard brass. Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: sprinthag@... Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2011 09:49:30 +0000 Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Engine I won   IIRC, the wood block served as a form for the sheet brass hood. The actual model was of all brass construction. John Hagen --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "hawk53965" <drake.bixby@...> wrote: > > I'm a little confused, the photo of the wood bodied engine is a diesel, but the conversations seem to be about articles building a steam engine. > > At any rate, while looking for something else, I found and article in August 1953 Model Railroader by Bob Klubertanz titled "Home Built Road Diesel" describing the building of an Alco diesel using a wood block for a body, and a Lindsey L740 power truck, universal shaft, and Lindsey L625 geared truck. Also listed are the side frames and other drive parts by Lindsey, and the brass sheet and wire parts used to make detail parts. The article ends (continued next month), so it is at least a 2 part article. It was very interesting. > > Drake Bixby > Wisconsin Dells WI

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17870	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 12/17/2011
Subject: Re: Roundhouse 5L-2 0-6-0T Tank Switcher

I hope it runs well. Slow running is right for a switcher type as that engine is a switcher or small Railroad or branchline locomotive. There is an old rule of thumb for steam locomotive top speeds. You can expect the top speed to be about 110 percent of the inch diameter of the drivers in miles per hour. Also a locomotive without lead or trailing wheels in their guide frames will only be safe to operate at slower speeds. Otherwise, they are more likely to leave the rails on curves or track-switches. Even on straight track they will hunt from side to side, settling in on the centerline of the track with less delicacy then a similar locomotive with lead or trailing trucks. A 0-6-0 will waddle a lot more going down the track than a 2-6-2 or 2-6-0 with it's spring centering guide trucks. If you have a smooth running yet slow moving switcher or short-line model as a 0-6-0 is, it's a good thing. I suspect that the real thing would be frightening to see at speeds above 50 mph. Something to note is that the amount of water and fuel it carries is much smaller than can be carried in a following tender. You're not carrying much of either water or fuel and restricted to shorter runs between refueling and adding water. So this 0-6-0 doesn't go for longer distances and doesn't need a lot of high speed to cover distances. As set up with the water tank over the boiler and the fuel bunker on the tail, it has a lot of extra traction weight on the locomotive and likely can haul more tonnage in a train than a similar sized 0-6-0 with a tender and no water tank wrapping around the boiler. So you've got a brute of a hauler that prefers shorter runs. It's very much like the compact logging lines steam locomotives that with the addition of lead and trailing wheels work very well on rough backwood railroads. You just need more frequent water and fuel stops. But the plus is that you are operating a tough hauler that takes trackage that larger locomotives can't handle. Slow is okay, it's part of the nature of such a brute of a locomotive. When I first got into the hobby, I would buy N-scale power packs for my layout. They are just like the regular HO power packs. BUT they had great slow speed operation of even the typical HO locomotive. They had higher resistance controls and you could make your engines creep on the lower settings of a N-scale power pack, while the regular HO power pack had lower resistance controls making many HO locomotive start with a Jack Rabbit jerk of a start instead of a slow creep when it begins to move. I soon preferred slower operations for everything other than hot-shot freights and passenger trains. Those are fun to get the slower trains out of the way........ Mike Bauers On Dec 16, 2011, at 6:29 AM, Brent wrote: > > Mike > > Thank you for your reply. > The body is plastic. > It is slow, is this because of the gearing? > Thanks again > > Brent > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote: >> >> Is it the later plastic body or the older metal body version ??? >> >> Mike Bauers >> >> On Dec 15, 2011, at 6:11 AM, Brent wrote: >> >>> Ladies and Gentlemen >>> >>> Could you please tell me of your experiences with above model? >>> >>> I have bought a secondhand 1.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17871	From: Mike Sloane	Date: 12/17/2011
Subject: Re: Roundhouse 5L-2 0-6-0T Tank Switcher

In a similar vein, if you are modeling a railroad era/location with less then perfectly maintained tracks, then your loco's will be speed restricted by orders. So even the fanciest locomotives will end up "tiptoeing" down the line, with the crew keeping their fingers crossed that the entire train will stay on the tracks until the end of the run. (It is a good thing that I model a "fallen flag" Eastern railroad that is just about to be swallowed up by Conrail. That gives me the excuse to run slow trains pulled by second hand loco's over my less-than-perfect track work!) Mike On 12/17/2011 1:08 PM, Mike Bauers wrote: > I hope it runs well. > > Slow running is right for a switcher type as that engine is a switcher > or small Railroad or branchline locomotive. > > There is an old rule of thumb for steam locomotive top speeds. You can > expect the top speed to be about 110 percent of the inch diameter of the > drivers in miles per hour. > > Also a locomotive without lead or trailing wheels in their guide frames > will only be safe to operate at slower speeds. Otherwise, they are more > likely to leave the rails on curves or track-switches. Even on straight > track they will hunt from side to side, settling in on the centerline of > the track with less delicacy then a similar locomotive with lead or > trailing trucks. A 0-6-0 will waddle a lot more going down the track > than a 2-6-2 or 2-6-0 with it's spring centering guide trucks. > > If you have a smooth running yet slow moving switcher or short-line > model as a 0-6-0 is, it's a good thing. > > I suspect that the real thing would be frightening to see at speeds > above 50 mph. > > Something to note is that the amount of water and fuel it carries is > much smaller than can be carried in a following tender. You're not > carrying much of either water or fuel and restricted to shorter runs > between refueling and adding water. So this 0-6-0 doesn't go for longer > distances and doesn't need a lot of high speed to cover distances. > > As set up with the water tank over the boiler and the fuel bunker on the > tail, it has a lot of extra traction weight on the locomotive and likely > can haul more tonnage in a train than a similar sized 0-6-0 with a > tender and no water tank wrapping around the boiler. > > So you've got a brute of a hauler that prefers shorter runs. > > It's very much like the compact logging lines steam locomotives that > with the addition of lead and trailing wheels work very well on rough > backwood railroads. You just need more frequent water and fuel stops. > But the plus is that you are operating a tough hauler that takes > trackage that larger locomotives can't handle. > > Slow is okay, it's part of the nature of such a brute of a locomotive.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17872	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 12/17/2011
Subject: Re: Roundhouse 5L-2 0-6-0T Tank Switcher

I pretty much agree, switchers need to go slow and have very good control, otherwise all the banging around could damage the goods the cars are carrying.  However, there is such a thing as to slow.  My NW-2, Varney body, old Hobbytown chassis maxes out at 25 MPH with the motor going full blast.  I found out this was normal for the original gearing of the Hobbytown switcher.  Even Hobbytown recognized that was too slow and made a set of gears that raised the maximum speed to about 40 MPH, which I suspect is more prototypical, yet still should allow for very good control at very low speeds.  I have the new set of gears, but haven't put them in yet, maybe I will have an opportunity during the Christmas holidays. Now, you didn't tell us how slow the Roundhouse 0-6-0 goes and if the motor is maxed out at the slow speed.  It could be that your locomotive is ok, but it also could be that something is binding or more likely the Roundhouse open frame motor is shot, assuming it is a Roundhouse open frame motor.  A lot of those were really bad and the usual symptom is that they heat up really bad and run slow.  If you could give us a bit more information, we could give advice. Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: mwbauers55@... Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2011 12:08:57 -0600 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Roundhouse 5L-2 0-6-0T Tank Switcher   I hope it runs well. Slow running is right for a switcher type as that engine is a switcher or small Railroad or branchline locomotive. There is an old rule of thumb for steam locomotive top speeds. You can expect the top speed to be about 110 percent of the inch diameter of the drivers in miles per hour. Also a locomotive without lead or trailing wheels in their guide frames will only be safe to operate at slower speeds. Otherwise, they are more likely to leave the rails on curves or track-switches. Even on straight track they will hunt from side to side, settling in on the centerline of the track with less delicacy then a similar locomotive with lead or trailing trucks. A 0-6-0 will waddle a lot more going down the track than a 2-6-2 or 2-6-0 with it's spring centering guide trucks. If you have a smooth running yet slow moving switcher or short-line model as a 0-6-0 is, it's a good thing. I suspect that the real thing would be frightening to see at speeds above 50 mph. Something to note is that the amount of water and fuel it carries is much smaller than can be carried in a following tender. You're not carrying much of either water or fuel and restricted to shorter runs between refueling and adding water. So this 0-6-0 doesn't go for longer distances and doesn't need a lot of high speed to cover distances. As set up with the water tank over the boiler and the fuel bunker on the tail, it has a lot of extra traction weight on the locomotive and likely can haul more tonnage in a train than a similar sized 0-6-0 with a tender and no water tank wrapping around the boiler. So you've got a brute of a hauler that prefers shorter runs. It's very much like the compact logging lines steam locomotives that with the addition of lead and trailing wheels work very well on rough backwood railroads. You just need more frequent water and fuel stops. But the plus is that you are operating a tough hauler that takes trackage that larger locomotives can't handle. Slow is okay, it's part of the nature of such a brute of a locomotive. When I first got into the hobby, I would buy N-scale power packs for my layout. They are just like the regular HO power packs. BUT they had great slow speed operation of even the typical HO locomotive. They had higher resistance controls and you could make your engines creep on the lower settings of a N-scale power pack, while the regular HO power pack had lower resistance controls making many HO locomotive start with a Jack Rabbit jerk of a start instead of a slow creep when it begins to move. I soon preferred slower operations for everything other than hot-shot freights and passenger trains. Those are fun to get the slower trains out of the way........ Mike Bauers On Dec 16, 2011, at 6:29 AM, Brent wrote: > > Mike > > Thank you for your reply. > The body is plastic. > It is slow, is this because of the gearing? > Thanks again > > Brent > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote: >> >> Is it the later plastic body or the older metal body version ??? >> >> Mike Bauers >> >> On Dec 15, 2011, at 6:11 AM, Brent wrote: >> >>> Ladies and Gentlemen >>> >>> Could you please tell me of your experiences with above model? >>> >>> I have bought a secondhand 1.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17873	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 12/17/2011
Subject: Re: caboose id?

Got it done...even found the original trucks with the latch couplers, except same morons cut the tang off one truck, and the coupler was separate. Cut a brass square section to make a shallow channel, soldered it in, mounted the coupler.... I now have a Fleishmann 4-wheel flat, two round-top 4-wheel passenger cars, and this caboose, all with Fleishmann latch couplers, and a Maerklin 0-6-0 tank. The only issue so far is the wheels on the caboose are HUGE, and there are only three axles worth. I found something close...but, both ends, level, couplers are half the vertical face higher than the other Fleishmann cars. I am thinking of sticking some Athearn wheelsets in the trucks to get the coupler height down. Interesting, time-consuming experience, this was. Once the paint is fully cured, I'll put a photo up n the album. Dave > Found it. The morons that had these originally splatter-painted everything. I spent a hour getting who knows how much off one side. Fleischmann, made in Western Germany. Photos in photo section under an album titled "Fleischmann". > Dave > > > > If it's all diecast metal I have to add my vote to MDC Roundhouse. Varney's > > model of the Santa Fe Caboose was only available in Cardstock, Athearn's in > > plastic, and every Fleischman ad I've seen was a 4 wheel. > > > > Don > > > > Don Dellmann > > don.dellmann@ > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ > > http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction > > Owner > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17874	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 12/17/2011
Subject: Re: Roundhouse 5L-2 0-6-0T Tank Switcher

Hi All, In later years Roundhouse shipped some locos with a Sagami open frame motor. These ran slower and smoother than the older units with roundhouse motors. I used to buy the motors from Roundhouse to remotor small brass steamers. If you have the Sagami motor you are in luck, both the speed and the gearing were more suitable for a switcher. Jake Bechtel Gadsden, AL On 12/17/11, Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> wrote: > > I pretty much agree, switchers need to go slow and have very good control, > otherwise all the banging around could damage the goods the cars are > carrying. However, there is such a thing as to slow. My NW-2, Varney body, > old Hobbytown chassis maxes out at 25 MPH with the motor going full blast. > I found out this was normal for the original gearing of the Hobbytown > switcher. Even Hobbytown recognized that was too slow and made a set of > gears that raised the maximum speed to about 40 MPH, which I suspect is more > prototypical, yet still should allow for very good control at very low > speeds. I have the new set of gears, but haven't put them in yet, maybe I > will have an opportunity during the Christmas holidays. > Now, you didn't tell us how slow the Roundhouse 0-6-0 goes and if the motor > is maxed out at the slow speed. It could be that your locomotive is ok, but > it also could be that something is binding or more likely the Roundhouse > open frame motor is shot, assuming it is a Roundhouse open frame motor. A > lot of those were really bad and the usual symptom is that they heat up > really bad and run slow. If you could give us a bit more information, we > could give advice. > Regards, > Vic Bitleris > Raleigh, NC > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > From: mwbauers55@... > Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2011 12:08:57 -0600 > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Roundhouse 5L-2 0-6-0T Tank Switcher > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I hope it runs well. > > > > Slow running is right for a switcher type as that engine is a switcher or > small Railroad or branchline locomotive. > > > > There is an old rule of thumb for steam locomotive top speeds. You can > expect the top speed to be about 110 percent of the inch diameter of the > drivers in miles per hour. > > > > Also a locomotive without lead or trailing wheels in their guide frames will > only be safe to operate at slower speeds. Otherwise, they are more likely to > leave the rails on curves or track-switches. Even on straight track they > will hunt from side to side, settling in on the centerline of the track with > less delicacy then a similar locomotive with lead or trailing trucks. A > 0-6-0 will waddle a lot more going down the track than a 2-6-2 or 2-6-0 with > it's spring centering guide trucks. > > > > If you have a smooth running yet slow moving switcher or short-line model as > a 0-6-0 is, it's a good thing. > > > > I suspect that the real thing would be frightening to see at speeds above 50 > mph. > > > > Something to note is that the amount of water and fuel it carries is much > smaller than can be carried in a following tender. You're not carrying much > of either water or fuel and restricted to shorter runs between refueling and > adding water. So this 0-6-0 doesn't go for longer distances and doesn't need > a lot of high speed to cover distances. > > > > As set up with the water tank over the boiler and the fuel bunker on the > tail, it has a lot of extra traction weight on the locomotive and likely can > haul more tonnage in a train than a similar sized 0-6-0 with a tender and no > water tank wrapping around the boiler. > > > > So you've got a brute of a hauler that prefers shorter runs. > > > > It's very much like the compact logging lines steam locomotives that with > the addition of lead and trailing wheels work very well on rough backwood > railroads. You just need more frequent water and fuel stops. But the plus is > that you are operating a tough hauler that takes trackage that larger > locomotives can't handle. > > > > Slow is okay, it's part of the nature of such a brute of a locomotive. > > > > When I first got into the hobby, I would buy N-scale power packs for my > layout. They are just like the regular HO power packs. BUT they had great > slow speed operation of even the typical HO locomotive. They had higher > resistance controls and you could make your engines creep on the lower > settings of a N-scale power pack, while the regular HO power pack had lower > resistance controls making many HO locomotive start with a Jack Rabbit jerk > of a start instead of a slow creep when it begins to move. > > > > I soon preferred slower operations for everything other than hot-shot > freights and passenger trains. Those are fun to get the slower trains out of > the way........ > > > > Mike Bauers > > > > On Dec 16, 2011, at 6:29 AM, Brent wrote: > > > >> > >> Mike > >> > >> Thank you for your reply. > >> The body is plastic. > >> It is slow, is this because of the gearing? > >> Thanks again > >> > >> Brent > >> --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote: > >>> > >>> Is it the later plastic body or the older metal body version ??? > >>> > >>> Mike Bauers > >>> > >>> On Dec 15, 2011, at 6:11 AM, Brent wrote: > >>> > >>>> Ladies and Gentlemen > >>>> > >>>> Could you please tell me of your experiences with above model? > >>>> > >>>> I have bought a secondhand 1. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17875	From: Dale Smith	Date: 12/17/2011
Subject: Changes at americanflyerdisplays.org - new vintage HO content

I recently made a lot of changes to my website, www.americanflyerdisplays.org, both in format and content.   First of all, the format of the website has been changed to operate better on mobile devices, which had a little bit of trouble with the previous frame based website.  If you liked the old format better, it is still available by simply adding "/f" after the url, as in www.americanflyerdisplays.org/f .  Ray Mohrlang, provided me with scanned copies of several photos from his collection.  They are of the third and largest of the 1st Floor layouts at the New York Hall of Science and are accompanied by a lot of information on that layout.  I mention it here because one of the photos Ray donated features Gilbert HO, circa 1955, running on a spectacular trestle (www.americanflyerdisplays.org/ghos/first-floor/layout_3_overview.htm) which was part of this layout.  Interestingly enough, the cars all appear to be Varney manufactured versions.  In any case, take a look at the changes at www.americanflyerdisplays.org

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17876	From: hbutlerlists	Date: 12/17/2011
Subject: Couplers for Varney celluloid-side passenger cars

I just got several Varney celluloid-side cars that are in good shape, but lacking couplers (incl. draft gear boxes). What Kadees would group members recommend? Thanks, Harry Butler

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17877	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 12/17/2011
Subject: Re: Couplers for Varney celluloid-side passenger cars

Use the #5 or the "whisker" in the #5 draft gear. The #5 looks more like the knuckles that were available then. Jake Bechtel Gadsden, AL On 12/17/11, hbutlerlists <hbutlerlists@...> wrote: > I just got several Varney celluloid-side cars that are in good shape, but > lacking couplers (incl. draft gear boxes). What Kadees would group members > recommend? > > Thanks, > Harry Butler > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17878	From: Dale F. Smith	Date: 12/18/2011
Subject: Re: Changes at americanflyerdisplays.org - new vintage HO content

Here is the direct link to the vintage HO content referenced in my earlier message www.americanflyerdisplays.org/ghos/first-floor/layout_3_overview.htm Be sure to click on the photo to view a larger image and then click on the larger image for a further blowup to see the details of the rolling stock mentioned. Dale Smith On 12/17/2011 7:18 PM, Dale Smith wrote: one of the photos Ray donated features Gilbert HO, circa 1955, running on a spectacular trestle (www.americanflyerdisplays.org/ghos/first-floor/layout_3_overview.htm) which was part of this layout.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17879	From: John Webster	Date: 12/18/2011
Subject: Re: Roundhouse 5L-2 0-6-0T Tank Switcher

The prototype on which this model is based was used as a yard switcher. It probably never got over 20 mph or 5 miles from it's engine house during it's working life.   That is why it is geared to run slowly.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17880	From: RalphB	Date: 12/18/2011
Subject: Re: Roundhouse 5L-2 0-6-0T Tank Switcher

--- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Mike Bauers wrote: > > There is an old rule of thumb for steam locomotive top speeds. You can expect the top speed to be about 110 percent of the inch diameter of the drivers in miles per hour. -------------------- Probably true until you get into the late '30s when design features such as cross-counterbalancing and roller bearings were being introduced. As an example, the N&W J-class locos were capable of speeds in excess of 100 mph on 70-inch drivers; that's a factor of about 150 per cent. -------------------- Mike continued: > > As set up with the water tank over the boiler and the fuel bunker on the tail, it has a lot of extra traction weight on the locomotive and likely can haul more tonnage in a train than a similar sized 0-6-0 with a tender and no water tank wrapping around the boiler. -------------------- This might be true when the locomotive starts its day, but that tank will be nearly empty after a couple of hours; then you have only the dead weight of the tank. A locomotive's factor of adhesion is computed based on "weight in working order." For a steam locomotive this would mean with a boiler full of water; it would not include a full tank of water for a tank-type switcher. Correct me if I'm wrong. Ralph Balfoort

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17881	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 12/18/2011
Subject: Re: Roundhouse 5L-2 0-6-0T Tank Switcher

Yes, my Roundhouse 3 truck Shay came with one of the Sagami open frame motors.  It is a very nice motor and will work just fine with a DCC decoder.  But my Boxcab came with something else.  It can't run 5 minutes without overheating and slowing down.  I am glad I caught that early, otherwise I would have a melted Boxcab.  This one is getting a can motor. Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: jhbivusa@... Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2011 18:33:10 -0600 Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Roundhouse 5L-2 0-6-0T Tank Switcher   Hi All, In later years Roundhouse shipped some locos with a Sagami open frame motor. These ran slower and smoother than the older units with roundhouse motors. I used to buy the motors from Roundhouse to remotor small brass steamers. If you have the Sagami motor you are in luck, both the speed and the gearing were more suitable for a switcher. Jake Bechtel Gadsden, AL On 12/17/11, Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> wrote: > > I pretty much agree, switchers need to go slow and have very good control, > otherwise all the banging around could damage the goods the cars are > carrying. However, there is such a thing as to slow. My NW-2, Varney body, > old Hobbytown chassis maxes out at 25 MPH with the motor going full blast. > I found out this was normal for the original gearing of the Hobbytown > switcher. Even Hobbytown recognized that was too slow and made a set of > gears that raised the maximum speed to about 40 MPH, which I suspect is more > prototypical, yet still should allow for very good control at very low > speeds. I have the new set of gears, but haven't put them in yet, maybe I > will have an opportunity during the Christmas holidays. > Now, you didn't tell us how slow the Roundhouse 0-6-0 goes and if the motor > is maxed out at the slow speed. It could be that your locomotive is ok, but > it also could be that something is binding or more likely the Roundhouse > open frame motor is shot, assuming it is a Roundhouse open frame motor. A > lot of those were really bad and the usual symptom is that they heat up > really bad and run slow. If you could give us a bit more information, we > could give advice. > Regards, > Vic Bitleris > Raleigh, NC > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > From: mwbauers55@... > Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2011 12:08:57 -0600 > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Roundhouse 5L-2 0-6-0T Tank Switcher > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I hope it runs well. > > > > Slow running is right for a switcher type as that engine is a switcher or > small Railroad or branchline locomotive. > > > > There is an old rule of thumb for steam locomotive top speeds. You can > expect the top speed to be about 110 percent of the inch diameter of the > drivers in miles per hour. > > > > Also a locomotive without lead or trailing wheels in their guide frames will > only be safe to operate at slower speeds. Otherwise, they are more likely to > leave the rails on curves or track-switches. Even on straight track they > will hunt from side to side, settling in on the centerline of the track with > less delicacy then a similar locomotive with lead or trailing trucks. A > 0-6-0 will waddle a lot more going down the track than a 2-6-2 or 2-6-0 with > it's spring centering guide trucks. > > > > If you have a smooth running yet slow moving switcher or short-line model as > a 0-6-0 is, it's a good thing. > > > > I suspect that the real thing would be frightening to see at speeds above 50 > mph. > > > > Something to note is that the amount of water and fuel it carries is much > smaller than can be carried in a following tender. You're not carrying much > of either water or fuel and restricted to shorter runs between refueling and > adding water. So this 0-6-0 doesn't go for longer distances and doesn't need > a lot of high speed to cover distances. > > > > As set up with the water tank over the boiler and the fuel bunker on the > tail, it has a lot of extra traction weight on the locomotive and likely can > haul more tonnage in a train than a similar sized 0-6-0 with a tender and no > water tank wrapping around the boiler. > > > > So you've got a brute of a hauler that prefers shorter runs. > > > > It's very much like the compact logging lines steam locomotives that with > the addition of lead and trailing wheels work very well on rough backwood > railroads. You just need more frequent water and fuel stops. But the plus is > that you are operating a tough hauler that takes trackage that larger > locomotives can't handle. > > > > Slow is okay, it's part of the nature of such a brute of a locomotive. > > > > When I first got into the hobby, I would buy N-scale power packs for my > layout. They are just like the regular HO power packs. BUT they had great > slow speed operation of even the typical HO locomotive. They had higher > resistance controls and you could make your engines creep on the lower > settings of a N-scale power pack, while the regular HO power pack had lower > resistance controls making many HO locomotive start with a Jack Rabbit jerk > of a start instead of a slow creep when it begins to move. > > > > I soon preferred slower operations for everything other than hot-shot > freights and passenger trains. Those are fun to get the slower trains out of > the way........ > > > > Mike Bauers > > > > On Dec 16, 2011, at 6:29 AM, Brent wrote: > > > >> > >> Mike > >> > >> Thank you for your reply. > >> The body is plastic. > >> It is slow, is this because of the gearing? > >> Thanks again > >> > >> Brent > >> --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote: > >>> > >>> Is it the later plastic body or the older metal body version ??? > >>> > >>> Mike Bauers > >>> > >>> On Dec 15, 2011, at 6:11 AM, Brent wrote: > >>> > >>>> Ladies and Gentlemen > >>>> > >>>> Could you please tell me of your experiences with above model? > >>>> > >>>> I have bought a secondhand 1. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17882	From: hbutlerlists	Date: 12/18/2011
Subject: Re: Couplers for Varney celluloid-side passenger cars

Thanks, Jake! Harry --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jacob Bechtel <jhbivusa@...> wrote: > > Use the #5 or the "whisker" in the #5 draft gear. The #5 looks more > like the knuckles that were available then. > Jake Bechtel > Gadsden, AL > > On 12/17/11, hbutlerlists <hbutlerlists@...> wrote: > > I just got several Varney celluloid-side cars that are in good shape, but > > lacking couplers (incl. draft gear boxes). What Kadees would group members > > recommend? > > > > Thanks, > > Harry Butler > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17883	From: cwrailman	Date: 12/18/2011
Subject: Re: Changes at americanflyerdisplays.org - new vintage HO content

WOW!! Book marked this site for a future visit. This site requires either a hot chocolate or an adult beverage to enjoy properly. I really appreciate such historic images. The timing is quite appropriate. In the early 1950's Polk Brothers in the Chicagoland area was giving away train sets with the purchase of home appliances. My aunt got a Lionel with one purchase and a American Flyer with another purchase. I got the Lionel and my cousin got the American Flyer. My interest went on to HO scale years later some of which is shown on my WEB site CWRailman.com but my cousin never did develop his interest. Thanks for posting that link. Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops CWRailman.com --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Dale Smith <dalefsmith@...> wrote: > > *I recently made a lot of changes to my website, > www.americanflyerdisplays.org, both in format and content. First of > all, the format of the website has been changed to operate better on > mobile devices, which had a little bit of trouble with the previous > frame based website. If you liked the old format better, it is still > available by simply adding "/f" after the url, as in > www.americanflyerdisplays.org/f <http://www.americanflyerdisplays.org/f> > . * > > ** > > *Ray Mohrlang, provided me with scanned copies of several photos from > his collection. They are of the third and largest of the 1st Floor > layouts at the New York Hall of Science and are accompanied by a**lot of > information on that layout. I mention it here because one of the photos > Ray donated features Gilbert HO, circa 1955, running on a spectacular > trestle > (www.americanflyerdisplays.org/ghos/first-floor/layout_3_overview.htm) > which was part of this layout. Interestingly enough, the cars all > appear to be Varney manufactured version**s. In any case, take a look > at the changes at www.americanflyerdisplays.org* > > ***<www.americanflyerdisplays.org>* > > ***<www.americanflyerdisplays.org>* >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17884	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 12/18/2011
Subject: Pilot ID

I could take a photo, but it's so small might be difficult to discern. I have a switching pilot (steps only on the beam), cast something (not brass), blackened, it mounts to the bottom of the forward frame extension, but the top is machined out before blackening (or cast that way...most likely), and the frame extension forms the upper plate of the coupler pocket. The frame slot is almost twice as wide as the coupler pocket, so you don't squeeze said pocket closed on the coupler. I have searched HOSeeker, nothing jumps out at me in the major players, anyway. Before I use it for something else, figured I'd see if it was a piece I shouldn't use for something else. Thanks. Dave

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17885	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 12/18/2011
Subject: Re: Roundhouse 5L-2 0-6-0T Tank Switcher

I agree. Draining that boiler tank will lower the traction weight. You reminded me of those Roads that used a different solution for this full tank extra traction situation. Those are the logging lines that would trail a shop built water tender behind the locomotive and likely used the trailing tank water while leaving the around the boiler tank full of water until they absolutely needed to switch to that water. Almost always they would fill the trailing tank and leave the boiler tank alone. I think the 0-6-0t's were economical things that could handle rougher track and shorted curves than larger locomotives, making them just darned nice machines for Road that was not flush with cash and had a less developed ROW. They were also quite nice shop and industry switchers on a Road that wanted versatile engines for both working the industrial plant and the connecting 'mainline'. Mike Bauers On Dec 18, 2011, at 8:10 AM, RalphB wrote: ....... >> >> As set up with the water tank over the boiler and the fuel bunker on the tail, it has a lot of extra traction weight on the locomotive and likely can haul more tonnage in a train than a similar sized 0-6-0 with a tender and no water tank wrapping around the boiler. > -------------------- > This might be true when the locomotive starts its day, but that tank will be nearly empty after a couple of hours; then you have only the dead weight of the tank. A locomotive's factor of adhesion is computed based on "weight in working order." For a steam locomotive this would mean with a boiler full of water; it would not include a full tank of water for a tank-type switcher. > > Correct me if I'm wrong. > > Ralph Balfoort

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17886	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 12/18/2011
Subject: Re: Roundhouse 5L-2 0-6-0T Tank Switcher

I have some older pictorial railroading books (Old enough that the FT diesel was big news in the book), that show short, now forgotten rural railroads, as using 0-6-0 tender locomotives for their mainlines. I have a couple MDC 0-6-0 locomotives that originally came with slope back switcher tenders. One has the tender from an old time MDC 2-8-0, while the other one I may rework the frame and rebuild into a small 2-6-0, with a small USRA tender behind it (Similar in concept to Bachmann's 2-6-0). I'm probably far from the first modeler that re-assigned a locomotive's primary duties with just swapping tenders. Funny too how the tender can be a good sign of where the locomotive operated. Waiting for trucks to arrive in the mail for the 0-6-0 with the consolidation tender. Replacing the arch bar trucks with Symington-Gould tender trucks. -Steve Neubaum --- On Sun, 12/18/11, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote: From: Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Roundhouse 5L-2 0-6-0T Tank Switcher To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, December 18, 2011, 7:45 PM   I agree. Draining that boiler tank will lower the traction weight. You reminded me of those Roads that used a different solution for this full tank extra traction situation. Those are the logging lines that would trail a shop built water tender behind the locomotive and likely used the trailing tank water while leaving the around the boiler tank full of water until they absolutely needed to switch to that water. Almost always they would fill the trailing tank and leave the boiler tank alone. I think the 0-6-0t's were economical things that could handle rougher track and shorted curves than larger locomotives, making them just darned nice machines for Road that was not flush with cash and had a less developed ROW. They were also quite nice shop and industry switchers on a Road that wanted versatile engines for both working the industrial plant and the connecting 'mainline'. Mike Bauers On Dec 18, 2011, at 8:10 AM, RalphB wrote: ....... >> >> As set up with the water tank over the boiler and the fuel bunker on the tail, it has a lot of extra traction weight on the locomotive and likely can haul more tonnage in a train than a similar sized 0-6-0 with a tender and no water tank wrapping around the boiler. > -------------------- > This might be true when the locomotive starts its day, but that tank will be nearly empty after a couple of hours; then you have only the dead weight of the tank. A locomotive's factor of adhesion is computed based on "weight in working order." For a steam locomotive this would mean with a boiler full of water; it would not include a full tank of water for a tank-type switcher. > > Correct me if I'm wrong. > > Ralph Balfoort

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17887	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 12/18/2011
Subject: Re: Roundhouse 5L-2 0-6-0T Tank Switcher

Steve and all, The original USRA design called for the 10,000 gal USRA tender to go with the 0-6-0 but many roads ordered them with the slope back. It really was meant to serve as either a short line pawer or a switching loco. So putting a small square tender behind it is quite prototypical. Originally many roads used it with either the 10,000 or 12,000 gal tender. The lead trucks came with use of the 0-6-0 on short lines. That lead truck really helped to keep the loco from "hunting" it's way down the tracks. Jake Bechtel Gadsden, AL On 12/18/11, Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote: > I have some older pictorial railroading books (Old enough that the FT diesel > was big news in the book), that show short, now forgotten rural railroads, > as using 0-6-0 tender locomotives for their mainlines. I have a couple MDC > 0-6-0 locomotives that originally came with slope back switcher tenders. One > has the tender from an old time MDC 2-8-0, while the other one I may rework > the frame and rebuild into a small 2-6-0, with a small USRA tender behind it > (Similar in concept to Bachmann's 2-6-0). > > I'm probably far from the first modeler that re-assigned a locomotive's > primary duties with just swapping tenders. Funny too how the tender can be a > good sign of where the locomotive operated. > > Waiting for trucks to arrive in the mail for the 0-6-0 with the > consolidation tender. Replacing the arch bar trucks with Symington-Gould > tender trucks. > > -Steve Neubaum > > --- On Sun, 12/18/11, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote: > > From: Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Roundhouse 5L-2 0-6-0T Tank Switcher > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, December 18, 2011, 7:45 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I agree. Draining that boiler tank will lower the traction weight. > > > > You reminded me of those Roads that used a different solution for this full > tank extra traction situation. Those are the logging lines that would trail > a shop built water tender behind the locomotive and likely used the trailing > tank water while leaving the around the boiler tank full of water until they > absolutely needed to switch to that water. Almost always they would fill the > trailing tank and leave the boiler tank alone. > > > > I think the 0-6-0t's were economical things that could handle rougher track > and shorted curves than larger locomotives, making them just darned nice > machines for Road that was not flush with cash and had a less developed ROW. > > > > They were also quite nice shop and industry switchers on a Road that wanted > versatile engines for both working the industrial plant and the connecting > 'mainline'. > > > > Mike Bauers > > > > On Dec 18, 2011, at 8:10 AM, RalphB wrote: > > ....... > >>> > >>> As set up with the water tank over the boiler and the fuel bunker on the >>> tail, it has a lot of extra traction weight on the locomotive and likely >>> can haul more tonnage in a train than a similar sized 0-6-0 with a tender >>> and no water tank wrapping around the boiler. > >> -------------------- > >> This might be true when the locomotive starts its day, but that tank will >> be nearly empty after a couple of hours; then you have only the dead >> weight of the tank. A locomotive's factor of adhesion is computed based >> on "weight in working order." For a steam locomotive this would mean with >> a boiler full of water; it would not include a full tank of water for a >> tank-type switcher. > >> > >> Correct me if I'm wrong. > >> > >> Ralph Balfoort > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17888	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 12/18/2011
Subject: Re: Roundhouse 5L-2 0-6-0T Tank Switcher

That's the idea behind my MDC 0-6-0s. One is going to be used on a short haul, three car train, transporting stock cars from a cattle yard, to a slaughterhouse. Other one may do a light run between a refinery and a large fuel and oil distributorship. The stock run uses the older MDC locomotive with a brass cab. This is due to the fact it was easier to refit the pilot to a Mantua loop coupler, which is what my Varney tennite stock cars use, as well as my Walthers metal ones. Oil run uses a later MDC locomotive with a plastic cab. It is pulling Mantua/Tyco plastic tank cars that ride on metal frame. Kadee 212 Talgo converters equipped the tanks with #5s. -Steve --- On Sun, 12/18/11, Jacob Bechtel <jhbivusa@...> wrote: From: Jacob Bechtel <jhbivusa@...> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Roundhouse 5L-2 0-6-0T Tank Switcher To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, December 18, 2011, 8:17 PM   Steve and all, The original USRA design called for the 10,000 gal USRA tender to go with the 0-6-0 but many roads ordered them with the slope back. It really was meant to serve as either a short line pawer or a switching loco. So putting a small square tender behind it is quite prototypical. Originally many roads used it with either the 10,000 or 12,000 gal tender. The lead trucks came with use of the 0-6-0 on short lines. That lead truck really helped to keep the loco from "hunting" it's way down the tracks. Jake Bechtel Gadsden, AL On 12/18/11, Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote: > I have some older pictorial railroading books (Old enough that the FT diesel > was big news in the book), that show short, now forgotten rural railroads, > as using 0-6-0 tender locomotives for their mainlines. I have a couple MDC > 0-6-0 locomotives that originally came with slope back switcher tenders. One > has the tender from an old time MDC 2-8-0, while the other one I may rework > the frame and rebuild into a small 2-6-0, with a small USRA tender behind it > (Similar in concept to Bachmann's 2-6-0). > > I'm probably far from the first modeler that re-assigned a locomotive's > primary duties with just swapping tenders. Funny too how the tender can be a > good sign of where the locomotive operated. > > Waiting for trucks to arrive in the mail for the 0-6-0 with the > consolidation tender. Replacing the arch bar trucks with Symington-Gould > tender trucks. > > -Steve Neubaum > > --- On Sun, 12/18/11, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote: > > From: Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Roundhouse 5L-2 0-6-0T Tank Switcher > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, December 18, 2011, 7:45 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I agree. Draining that boiler tank will lower the traction weight. > > > > You reminded me of those Roads that used a different solution for this full > tank extra traction situation. Those are the logging lines that would trail > a shop built water tender behind the locomotive and likely used the trailing > tank water while leaving the around the boiler tank full of water until they > absolutely needed to switch to that water. Almost always they would fill the > trailing tank and leave the boiler tank alone. > > > > I think the 0-6-0t's were economical things that could handle rougher track > and shorted curves than larger locomotives, making them just darned nice > machines for Road that was not flush with cash and had a less developed ROW. > > > > They were also quite nice shop and industry switchers on a Road that wanted > versatile engines for both working the industrial plant and the connecting > 'mainline'. > > > > Mike Bauers > > > > On Dec 18, 2011, at 8:10 AM, RalphB wrote: > > ....... > >>> > >>> As set up with the water tank over the boiler and the fuel bunker on the >>> tail, it has a lot of extra traction weight on the locomotive and likely >>> can haul more tonnage in a train than a similar sized 0-6-0 with a tender >>> and no water tank wrapping around the boiler. > >> -------------------- > >> This might be true when the locomotive starts its day, but that tank will >> be nearly empty after a couple of hours; then you have only the dead >> weight of the tank. A locomotive's factor of adhesion is computed based >> on "weight in working order." For a steam locomotive this would mean with >> a boiler full of water; it would not include a full tank of water for a >> tank-type switcher. > >> > >> Correct me if I'm wrong. > >> > >> Ralph Balfoort > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17889	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 12/18/2011
Subject: Re: Roundhouse 5L-2 0-6-0T Tank Switcher

Believe it or not Steve - I have even seen a 1:1 scale tank loco fitted with a tender on one of those orphan branch line. A few years back there were something like 600 railroads operating in North America. Some had only one loco and only ran trains when they were called and asked to pick up a car. Short line and branch line railroading is a hoot! If you can imagine it some road , somewhere is probably using it or tried it. The Verde Tunnel and Smelter RR started with a Climax and then ran the line with 0-4-0s and 0-6-0s until 1920 whentthey got two 2-6-6-2 Alcos. When the VT&S went down SP got their 2-6-6-2s and used them to serve the LA roundhouse until 1954. I love this hobby! And I love the creativity of the real railroaders of years past. Jake Bechtel On 12/18/11, Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote: > That's the idea behind my MDC 0-6-0s. > > One is going to be used on a short haul, three car train, transporting stock > cars from a cattle yard, to a slaughterhouse. Other one may do a light run > between a refinery and a large fuel and oil distributorship. > > The stock run uses the older MDC locomotive with a brass cab. This is due to > the fact it was easier to refit the pilot to a Mantua loop coupler, which is > what my Varney tennite stock cars use, as well as my Walthers metal ones. > > Oil run uses a later MDC locomotive with a plastic cab. It is pulling > Mantua/Tyco plastic tank cars that ride on metal frame. Kadee 212 Talgo > converters equipped the tanks with #5s. > > -Steve > > --- On Sun, 12/18/11, Jacob Bechtel <jhbivusa@...> wrote: > > From: Jacob Bechtel <jhbivusa@...> > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Roundhouse 5L-2 0-6-0T Tank Switcher > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, December 18, 2011, 8:17 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Steve and all, > > The original USRA design called for the 10,000 gal USRA tender to > > go with the 0-6-0 but many roads ordered them with the slope back. It > > really was meant to serve as either a short line pawer or a switching > > loco. So putting a small square tender behind it is quite > > prototypical. Originally many roads used it with either the 10,000 or > > 12,000 gal tender. The lead trucks came with use of the 0-6-0 on > > short lines. That lead truck really helped to keep the loco from > > "hunting" it's way down the tracks. > > > > Jake Bechtel > > Gadsden, AL > > > > On 12/18/11, Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote: > >> I have some older pictorial railroading books (Old enough that the FT >> diesel > >> was big news in the book), that show short, now forgotten rural railroads, > >> as using 0-6-0 tender locomotives for their mainlines. I have a couple MDC > >> 0-6-0 locomotives that originally came with slope back switcher tenders. >> One > >> has the tender from an old time MDC 2-8-0, while the other one I may >> rework > >> the frame and rebuild into a small 2-6-0, with a small USRA tender behind >> it > >> (Similar in concept to Bachmann's 2-6-0). > >> > >> I'm probably far from the first modeler that re-assigned a locomotive's > >> primary duties with just swapping tenders. Funny too how the tender can be >> a > >> good sign of where the locomotive operated. > >> > >> Waiting for trucks to arrive in the mail for the 0-6-0 with the > >> consolidation tender. Replacing the arch bar trucks with Symington-Gould > >> tender trucks. > >> > >> -Steve Neubaum > >> > >> --- On Sun, 12/18/11, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote: > >> > >> From: Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> > >> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Roundhouse 5L-2 0-6-0T Tank Switcher > >> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > >> Date: Sunday, December 18, 2011, 7:45 PM > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> I agree. Draining that boiler tank will lower the traction weight. > >> > >> > >> > >> You reminded me of those Roads that used a different solution for this >> full > >> tank extra traction situation. Those are the logging lines that would >> trail > >> a shop built water tender behind the locomotive and likely used the >> trailing > >> tank water while leaving the around the boiler tank full of water until >> they > >> absolutely needed to switch to that water. Almost always they would fill >> the > >> trailing tank and leave the boiler tank alone. > >> > >> > >> > >> I think the 0-6-0t's were economical things that could handle rougher >> track > >> and shorted curves than larger locomotives, making them just darned nice > >> machines for Road that was not flush with cash and had a less developed >> ROW. > >> > >> > >> > >> They were also quite nice shop and industry switchers on a Road that >> wanted > >> versatile engines for both working the industrial plant and the connecting > >> 'mainline'. > >> > >> > >> > >> Mike Bauers > >> > >> > >> > >> On Dec 18, 2011, at 8:10 AM, RalphB wrote: > >> > >> ....... > >> > >>>> > >> > >>>> As set up with the water tank over the boiler and the fuel bunker on the > >>>> tail, it has a lot of extra traction weight on the locomotive and likely > >>>> can haul more tonnage in a train than a similar sized 0-6-0 with a >>>> tender > >>>> and no water tank wrapping around the boiler. > >> > >>> -------------------- > >> > >>> This might be true when the locomotive starts its day, but that tank will > >>> be nearly empty after a couple of hours; then you have only the dead > >>> weight of the tank. A locomotive's factor of adhesion is computed based > >>> on "weight in working order." For a steam locomotive this would mean with > >>> a boiler full of water; it would not include a full tank of water for a > >>> tank-type switcher. > >> > >>> > >> > >>> Correct me if I'm wrong. > >> > >>> > >> > >>> Ralph Balfoort > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17890	From: Charlie	Date: 12/18/2011
Subject: Old Gears - in your Junk Box

Hi   Has anyone (Sean ?) got a junkbox of old plastic gears for HO locomotives, steam or diesel.   I am looking for some for some upcoming projects for repowering etc..   Thanks   Charlie Harris

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17891	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 12/19/2011
Subject: Re: Old Gears - in your Junk Box

Hi Charlie, Do you have any idea what you need? Yes.. I do have a small 1-gallon box of various random gears, but if you know of what engine you need, I might be able to help.   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: Charlie <railroads@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, December 19, 2011 1:20 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Old Gears - in your Junk Box   Hi   Has anyone (Sean ?) got a junkbox of old plastic gears for HO locomotives, steam or diesel.   I am looking for some for some upcoming projects for repowering etc..   Thanks   Charlie Harris

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17892	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 12/19/2011
Subject: Re: Pilot ID

Really need a picture of some sort Dave. Off hand, it sounds like maybe a Revell front pilot, but i am not sure. It could be a Varney.   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: trainsnwrcs <idioticyahoo@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, December 18, 2011 4:27 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Pilot ID   I could take a photo, but it's so small might be difficult to discern. I have a switching pilot (steps only on the beam), cast something (not brass), blackened, it mounts to the bottom of the forward frame extension, but the top is machined out before blackening (or cast that way...most likely), and the frame extension forms the upper plate of the coupler pocket. The frame slot is almost twice as wide as the coupler pocket, so you don't squeeze said pocket closed on the coupler. I have searched HOSeeker, nothing jumps out at me in the major players, anyway. Before I use it for something else, figured I'd see if it was a piece I shouldn't use for something else. Thanks. Dave

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17893	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 12/19/2011
Subject: Re: Pilot ID

Put up three in "photos", album titled "unknown pilot". It has a slightly greenish tint reminds me of Rivarossi, but cannot find anything like it on HOSeeker. I had looked at Revell, maybe missing something. The coupler pocket is not symmetrical, like the cavity for the X2F spring on one side. Dave --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > Really need a picture of some sort Dave. > > Off hand, it sounds like maybe a Revell front pilot, but i am not sure. It could be a Varney. > >   > Sean > > > "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! > > > ________________________________ > From: trainsnwrcs <idioticyahoo@...> > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sunday, December 18, 2011 4:27 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Pilot ID > > >   > I could take a photo, but it's so small might be difficult to discern. > I have a switching pilot (steps only on the beam), cast something (not brass), blackened, it mounts to the bottom of the forward frame extension, but the top is machined out before blackening (or cast that way...most likely), and the frame extension forms the upper plate of the coupler pocket. > The frame slot is almost twice as wide as the coupler pocket, so you don't squeeze said pocket closed on the coupler. > I have searched HOSeeker, nothing jumps out at me in the major players, anyway. > > Before I use it for something else, figured I'd see if it was a piece I shouldn't use for something else. > > Thanks. > Dave >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17894	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 12/19/2011
Subject: Re: Pilot ID

Charlie, I was thinking it might be from a Revell 0-6-0, but after closely examining it, I am sure it is not now.  Maybe from a Lionel switcher?  Not sure. I would just use it if it fits your application. Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: trainsnwrcs <idioticyahoo@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, December 19, 2011 4:41 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Pilot ID   Put up three in "photos", album titled "unknown pilot". It has a slightly greenish tint reminds me of Rivarossi, but cannot find anything like it on HOSeeker. I had looked at Revell, maybe missing something. The coupler pocket is not symmetrical, like the cavity for the X2F spring on one side. Dave --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Sean Naylor <a69mustang4me@...> wrote: > > Really need a picture of some sort Dave. > > Off hand, it sounds like maybe a Revell front pilot, but i am not sure. It could be a Varney. > >   > Sean > > > "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! > > > ________________________________ > From: trainsnwrcs <idioticyahoo@...> > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sunday, December 18, 2011 4:27 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Pilot ID > > >   > I could take a photo, but it's so small might be difficult to discern. > I have a switching pilot (steps only on the beam), cast something (not brass), blackened, it mounts to the bottom of the forward frame extension, but the top is machined out before blackening (or cast that way...most likely), and the frame extension forms the upper plate of the coupler pocket. > The frame slot is almost twice as wide as the coupler pocket, so you don't squeeze said pocket closed on the coupler. > I have searched HOSeeker, nothing jumps out at me in the major players, anyway. > > Before I use it for something else, figured I'd see if it was a piece I shouldn't use for something else. > > Thanks. > Dave >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17895	From: Charlie	Date: 12/19/2011
Subject: Re: Old Gears - in your Junk Box

Hi Sean   I want to change the gearing on an old Mainline/Dapol split chassis , in this case it is an English outline 0-6-0 steam.  I understand the same chassis was used in some US outline diesels.   I will need to do some machining etc to fit the new gears.  The speed of loco is too fast for switching.   Have done some homework and if I can fit  a 26 to 30 tooth in place of one in the chassis and reposition the other gear  should be able to improve traction etc.  I could use a different chassis or remotor etc but I would like to have a little project and see how it will go.   The gears I am looking for are type 05 ,  25-to say 32 teeth with 8t pinion.  Pin size can be anything, I sort that one way or another.  8t can be on there own if necessary, and I can attach to the main gear.   A few gears to give me some options would be great.  Let me know costs etc. including postage.   Thanks and regards   Charlie Harris New Zealand       From: Sean Naylor Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2011 10:15 AM To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Old Gears - in your Junk Box   Hi Charlie, Do you have any idea what you need? Yes.. I do have a small 1-gallon box of various random gears, but if you know of what engine you need, I might be able to help.   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: Charlie <railroads@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, December 19, 2011 1:20 AM Subject: [vintageHO] Old Gears - in your Junk Box   Hi   Has anyone (Sean ?) got a junkbox of old plastic gears for HO locomotives, steam or diesel.   I am looking for some for some upcoming projects for repowering etc..   Thanks   Charlie Harris

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17896	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 12/20/2011
Subject: wood sealer

What it the best product that you have found for sealing wood before painting ? Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17897	From: acace@juno.com	Date: 12/20/2011
Subject: Re: wood sealer

Jim, I've used Scale Coat Sanding Sealer for years and always been happy with the results. Takes more than one coat, usually. Regards, Dick W.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17898	From: John Barlow	Date: 12/20/2011
Subject: Re: wood sealer

I used Scalecoat Sanding Sealer...applied in sufficient amounts (as Ambroid and Cloorcraft once recommrnded) to cause the wood to take the paint (when applied) to simulate metal siding.   John W. Barlow (jdenver4150@...) --- On Tue, 12/20/11, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> Subject: [vintageHO] wood sealer To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, December 20, 2011, 5:36 PM   What it the best product that you have found for sealing wood before painting ? Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17899	From: David J. Starr	Date: 12/21/2011
Subject: Re: wood sealer

On 12/20/2011 7:36 PM, Jim Heckard wrote: > > What it the best product that you have found for sealing wood > before painting ? > > Jim H > > > ------------------------------------ > I use plain old shellac from the local hardware store. All a model sealer has to do is be somewhat moisture proof and take paint well. I seal both sides of wooden models to prevent warping, which can happen when one side absorbs moisture from the air and the other side doesn't. My wood models are all done with bass wood which is very fine grained, so the other purpose of a sealer, to conceal the grain, doesn't really apply in model making. We aren't trying to tame the wild grain you get in fir plywood. The softwood soaks up paint faster than the hardwood, and so the underlying wood grain will show thru a coat of paint. This is not a problem in model making, 'cause the bass wood is so fine grained. -- David J. Starr Blog: http://www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17900	From: cwrailman	Date: 12/21/2011
Subject: Re: wood sealer

Jim, If you look at the FRL Ruby passenger car build under CWRailman in the photo section you will see that my friend Jim Kubajak uses a mixture of thinned down components. Better to let him explain here. "OK, you know that I am a great believer in sealing any wood that I use for my construction (especially those LaBelle kits). What I use is Lacquer Sanding Sealer. I buy it by the quart and the key is that it thins with Lacquer Thinner. In doing one of those many wood clerestory roofs you know that one way I archive a smooth finish is by applying 5 to 7 coats, sanding with steel wool between coats. Note: A thick coat of lacquer sealer will glue two pieces of wood together. Like when I discovered that the lacquer stirring stick stuck to the wood table surface. You have probably discovered from my construction photos that I do use an auto body putty to fill in holes, seams and grain in the wood. I have been working from a big tube of Green Magic body putty for eons. Usually, the putty from the tube is too stiff for my use. So I thin it with acetone to a consistency that can be brushed on to wood surfaces. This works but it usually dries too quickly for my purposes. So somewhere along the line I married body putty + lacquer sanding sealer and it gave me brush-ability plus a longer drying time = a smoother finish." Hope you get something out of this. Oh by the way, personally I use Scalecoat sanding sealer for my work. It does take four to six coats with sanding with 300 grit between the first two coats and then steel wool between the final coats to get a smooth finish. You can see some of my work at CWRailman at Facebook. You do not need to be a member to see those images. Now back to the shops. Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops Visit us at: CWRailman.com --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > What it the best product that you have found for sealing wood > before painting ? > > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17901	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 12/21/2011
Subject: Re: wood sealer

On the note of filling gaps: I have used Bondo for fixing dinged roofs with good results. Had a nice American Beauty coach, that the roof had a large gouge in it from who-knows-what. Patched it with Bondo, sanded it to final contour, and gave the whole roof a fresh coat of paint. Good as new, and nearly impossible (except under some lighting conditions) to tell where it was patched. One time, I had a Compaq Deskpro computer in my closet (I called them Deathpros when I worked IT for the police department - they had a number of them still in use, and one could kill oneself lifting one of these beasts!), this Deskpro fell off the shelf, right onto a John English die cast coach body! Thankfully the coach did not shatter, but the corner of the computer left a major dent in the roof. After straightening the bent sides from impact, progressive layers of Bondo also fixed it too. Looks about as good as new! -Steve Neubaum --- On Wed, 12/21/11, cwrailman <cwrailman@...> wrote: From: cwrailman <cwrailman@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Re: wood sealer To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, December 21, 2011, 11:27 AM   Jim, If you look at the FRL Ruby passenger car build under CWRailman in the photo section you will see that my friend Jim Kubajak uses a mixture of thinned down components. Better to let him explain here. "OK, you know that I am a great believer in sealing any wood that I use for my construction (especially those LaBelle kits). What I use is Lacquer Sanding Sealer. I buy it by the quart and the key is that it thins with Lacquer Thinner. In doing one of those many wood clerestory roofs you know that one way I archive a smooth finish is by applying 5 to 7 coats, sanding with steel wool between coats. Note: A thick coat of lacquer sealer will glue two pieces of wood together. Like when I discovered that the lacquer stirring stick stuck to the wood table surface. You have probably discovered from my construction photos that I do use an auto body putty to fill in holes, seams and grain in the wood. I have been working from a big tube of Green Magic body putty for eons. Usually, the putty from the tube is too stiff for my use. So I thin it with acetone to a consistency that can be brushed on to wood surfaces. This works but it usually dries too quickly for my purposes. So somewhere along the line I married body putty + lacquer sanding sealer and it gave me brush-ability plus a longer drying time = a smoother finish." Hope you get something out of this. Oh by the way, personally I use Scalecoat sanding sealer for my work. It does take four to six coats with sanding with 300 grit between the first two coats and then steel wool between the final coats to get a smooth finish. You can see some of my work at CWRailman at Facebook. You do not need to be a member to see those images. Now back to the shops. Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops Visit us at: CWRailman.com --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > What it the best product that you have found for sealing wood > before painting ? > > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17902	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 12/22/2011
Subject: Fwd: Varney wood & plastic Passenger cars

Attachments : IMG_7441.JPG IMG_7439.JPG IMG_7437.JPG -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Varney wood & plastic Passenger cars Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2011 19:40:09 -0500 I have progressed further on rebuilding a pre war set of Varney wood and celluloid cars ( minus one car). I have all the parts I need now to complete. Thanks to two wonderful members who sent me the missing truck I needed ( I got three trucks ). I have all the bodies, plastic sides , trucks, Large loop couplers with all the hardware needed. I chose the larger Mantua Loop couplers for better turning, Celluloid sides in B&O colors and the Varney diagram where to place the tanks and battery boxes under the frames. It doesn't look like I've done much work but I had to completely take all the cars apart. Then had to re glue the 4 main parts of the bodies together that were dried out. I then had to pull of the handmade diaphragms to get to the ends of all the cars squared off and smooth sand ends to clean the paint off . I then had to replace some wood diaphragms, many busted or rotted along with cleaning the parts of the crappy paint on some. First car on the left side I sanded completely ( roof and under the floor and added the underneath detail as the Varney sheet calls for that car. A lot of work to do most of it sanding. Should be done by Christmas NEXT YEAR . Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 17903	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 12/22/2011
Subject: Re: Fwd: Varney wood & plastic Passenger cars [3 Attachments]

Do you have all the cars? If not, I have an extra RPO and an extra diner I could be sweet talked out of. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Heckard" <jimheck@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2011 6:44 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Fwd: Varney wood & plastic Passenger cars [3 Attachments] > > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: Varney wood & plastic Passenger cars > Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2011 19:40:09 -0500 > > > > > > > > > I have progressed further on rebuilding a pre war set of Varney > wood and celluloid cars ( minus one car). I have all the parts I need > now to complete. Thanks to two wonderful members who sent me the missing > truck I needed ( I got three trucks ). I have all the bodies, plastic > sides , trucks, Large loop couplers with all the hardware needed. I > chose the larger Mantua Loop couplers for better turning, Celluloid > sides in B&O colors and the Varney diagram where to place the tanks and > battery boxes under the frames. > > It doesn't look like I've done much work but I had to completely > take all the cars apart. Then had to re glue the 4 main parts of the > bodies together that were dried out. I then had to pull of the handmade > diaphragms to get to the ends of all the cars squared off and smooth > sand ends to clean the paint off . I then had to replace some wood > diaphragms, many busted or rotted along with cleaning the parts of the > crappy paint on some. First car on the left side I sanded completely > ( roof and under the floor and added the underneath detail as the Varney > sheet calls for that car. > > A lot of work to do most of it sanding. Should be done by > Christmas NEXT YEAR . > > > Jim H > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17904	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 12/23/2011
Subject: Re: Fwd: Varney wood & plastic Passenger cars

Hi Don,        Thanks for the offer to get the Diner and railway Post Office but I have both. The car I need is the Pullman Atlantis. I had planned on searching for it after Christmas. Money almost gone and I also owe a friend for an item he won on eBay for me.Have to replenish pocketbook. If you know someone has an extra Pullman Atlantis let me know.  Again Thanks.                                                          Merry Christmas & Happy New Year                                                                            Jim On 12/22/2011 8:52 PM, Don Dellmann wrote:   Do you have all the cars? If not, I have an extra RPO and an extra diner I could be sweet talked out of. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Heckard" <jimheck@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2011 6:44 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Fwd: Varney wood & plastic Passenger cars [3 Attachments] > > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: Varney wood & plastic Passenger cars > Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2011 19:40:09 -0500 > > > > > > > > > I have progressed further on rebuilding a pre war set of Varney > wood and celluloid cars ( minus one car). I have all the parts I need > now to complete. Thanks to two wonderful members who sent me the missing > truck I needed ( I got three trucks ). I have all the bodies, plastic > sides , trucks, Large loop couplers with all the hardware needed. I > chose the larger Mantua Loop couplers for better turning, Celluloid > sides in B&O colors and the Varney diagram where to place the tanks and > battery boxes under the frames. > > It doesn't look like I've done much work but I had to completely > take all the cars apart. Then had to re glue the 4 main parts of the > bodies together that were dried out. I then had to pull of the handmade > diaphragms to get to the ends of all the cars squared off and smooth > sand ends to clean the paint off . I then had to replace some wood > diaphragms, many busted or rotted along with cleaning the parts of the > crappy paint on some. First car on the left side I sanded completely > ( roof and under the floor and added the underneath detail as the Varney > sheet calls for that car. > > A lot of work to do most of it sanding. Should be done by > Christmas NEXT YEAR . > > > Jim H > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17905	From: Raymond Lorts, Sr,	Date: 12/23/2011
Subject: (no subject)

HI Guy's Merry Christmas and Happy New Year. Ray Lorts

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17906	From: Jay	Date: 12/24/2011
Subject: Happy Holidays to All!

Wishing all my friends here the best of the holiday season, whatever days and beliefs you choose to celebrate and hold close. For me it is Christmas, and I wish all the happiness, good spirits and tidings of my holiday to you. How lucky we are to live in this great country, that despite its sometimes perceived faults, allows us the freedom of our convictions, to voice them and to pursue the happiness we choose, like our mutual hobby of Vintage HO Scale Modeling! Have a great weekend! Jay W.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17907	From: Jay	Date: 12/24/2011
Subject: Re: Fwd: Sampson Powered Rail Car

Hi Jim H., A belated "well done" on the restoration of the Sampson Rail car. As soon as I saw it, I knew it had to be in your collection as you would do that rare model justice! Am finally getting caught up here and with a slack week coming, hope to catch up on all the posts I missed and add a couple of my new discoveries (and ask a few questions, too!) W. Jay W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > > > > Even though not feeling to go I finished of the Sampson engine > except for a coupler. I'm shaking real bad ( not Parkinson ) and I > didn't want to paint the handrails. I was afraid I'd have the car > looking like a zebra if I painted them but surprisingly I did OK. Same > with the decals. Had no problems getting them on and level. Big problem > with the decals I had none in black. The grey like color doesn't show to > good. > > But all in all I did rebuild this while being really under the > weather. I needed something to do and I think I did OK considering how I > feel. > > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17908	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/24/2011
Subject: Re: Happy Holidays to All!

Right back to you Jay, and every one else here; have a Very Happy Holiday . . . and a Very Happy and Prosperous New Year. Here's hoping that everyone looking for those elusive vintage models that they've always wanted will find them in 2012. Best Regards, Ray F. Wetzel </HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17909	From: Dr. Robert Driggers	Date: 12/24/2011
Subject: Rivarossi 2-8-8-0

Does anyone have a wiring diagram for the Rivarossi 2-8-8-0 with the round motor. Does not pick up from tender. Both motor wires go to front truck. Cannot get it to run on tracks. Direct power to motor works well. Thanks, Robert

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17910	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 12/24/2011
Subject: Re: Rivarossi 2-8-8-0

Dear Doc, This site should help http://www.visi.com/~spookshow/riv2882.html The 2-8-8-0 should be wired: bottom brush is shorted to frame of loco and picks up from the right rail, thru the frame on mine- 6 of the 8 right side drivers do pickup duty. Left rail pick-up uses the tender wheels on the left side - center wheels are not wired but the outer wheels of both trucks should have a wiper on them that is mounted to the truck mounting screw, a wire connects the trucks and then runs to the upper brush of the motor. Mine has a mini-plug connection. The two wires to the front should power the headlamp. It isn't the greatest system but it works if everything is clean. TCS decoder company has mini-plugs in their catalog. You can also use something like the Spectrum Vanderbilt or long USRA tender which has pickup from both rails and a better contact system. The long USRA tender has 4 wheel trucks and the long/C&) Vande has 6 wheel trucks. The USRA long scales about 35 ft. and the long Vande about 48 ft. If you opt for different tender and don't have a source locally, I have a new spare of each on hand. MSRP is $46 ea and I will sell one of mine for $30. Jake Bechtel Gadsden, AL On 12/24/11, Dr. Robert Driggers <robertanned@...> wrote: > Does anyone have a wiring diagram for the Rivarossi 2-8-8-0 with the round > motor. Does not pick up from tender. Both motor wires go to front truck. > Cannot get it to run on tracks. Direct power to motor works well. > Thanks, > Robert

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17911	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 12/24/2011
Subject: Holiday greetings

Whether you celebrate Christmas, Chanukah, Kwanza, the Solstice, Festivus or whatever, I just want to take a minute to wish everyone here the most happy and blessed greetings. Of all the groups I belong to, and the couple I run, I want to say this has been the greatest of all of them, and I treasure the friendships we have built over the years, and a welcome to the new friends we're sure to find in the next years to come. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17912	From: cwrailman	Date: 12/24/2011
Subject: Re: Holiday greetings

Don, I echo your Holiday sentiments toward those in our community and want to thank you for running this board. It has been a great experience for me. Thanks again, Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops WEB site: CWRailman.com Facebook: CWRailman --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > Whether you celebrate Christmas, Chanukah, Kwanza, the Solstice, Festivus or > whatever, I just want to take a minute to wish everyone here the most happy > and blessed greetings. > > Of all the groups I belong to, and the couple I run, I want to say this has > been the greatest of all of them, and I treasure the friendships we have > built over the years, and a welcome to the new friends we're sure to find in > the next years to come. > > Don > > Don Dellmann > don.dellmann@... > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ > http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction > Owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17913	From: John H	Date: 12/24/2011
Subject: Re: Holiday greetings

Yes Don, This is one the friendliest, pleasent groups there is. Merry Christmas to you and the happiest and safest of holidays to all. John Hagen --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > Whether you celebrate Christmas, Chanukah, Kwanza, the Solstice, Festivus or > whatever, I just want to take a minute to wish everyone here the most happy > and blessed greetings. > > Of all the groups I belong to, and the couple I run, I want to say this has > been the greatest of all of them, and I treasure the friendships we have > built over the years, and a welcome to the new friends we're sure to find in > the next years to come. > > Don > > Don Dellmann > don.dellmann@... > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ > http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction > Owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17914	From: hooligan	Date: 12/24/2011
Subject: Re: Holiday greetings

Right back your way Don , thank you for having this group . Henry H. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > Whether you celebrate Christmas, Chanukah, Kwanza, the Solstice, Festivus or > whatever, I just want to take a minute to wish everyone here the most happy > and blessed greetings. > > Of all the groups I belong to, and the couple I run, I want to say this has > been the greatest of all of them, and I treasure the friendships we have > built over the years, and a welcome to the new friends we're sure to find in > the next years to come. > > Don > > Don Dellmann > don.dellmann@... > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ > http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction > Owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17915	From: Larry	Date: 12/25/2011
Subject: Merry Christmas!

Group, Off topic post, but I am participating again this year and my cartoons are the first ones on the site; http://www.the-cartoonist.com/TCDC/tcdc_2011/tcdc_2011_all.html There is a bar to the right which has cartoons from years past and I am there all but 2005. Even something for the rail fans and model railroaders in this group. This is a family friendly site, so feel free to pass this along to anyone who might be interested. Larry Miller III =^U^=

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17916	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 12/25/2011
Subject: Re: Holiday greetings

Happy Holidays Don and all! Very glad I met you at Trainfest years ago, when you told me about this group. Been a great experience with fellow vintage modelers. Today so far I've spent a few hours at my workbench. Woke up this morning, and knocked my glasses off my bedside table, then stepped on them getting out of bed. The damage was fairly minor - broke the hinge on the right arm. At least, the way it broke, some Pliobond glue and some tape has fixed it till Tuesday, when I can get a proper fix at my optometrist. Better still, I have it with them where if my frames get damaged (My cat has been responsible, one way or another, for a few frames), as long as the lenses are usable, they can replace the frames for free. After fixing my glasses, I set to work on some projects.Put trucks and couplers on some Strombecker Union Pacific coaches, and fixed up a few Picard cars. When I was at TrainFest this past November, my dad let me pick out what I wanted for Christmas - I got a few prewar Walthers coaches, unassembled kits with trucks. I'll be heading over to his house shortly. Over there, we got our Lionel railroad in the basement. After dinner the idea is to disappear down there. Usually it becomes as though he and I are 10 year old boys with the trains! Merry Christmas! -Steve Neubaum --- On Sat, 12/24/11, Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote: From: Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Holiday greetings To: VintageHO@... Date: Saturday, December 24, 2011, 12:16 PM   Whether you celebrate Christmas, Chanukah, Kwanza, the Solstice, Festivus or whatever, I just want to take a minute to wish everyone here the most happy and blessed greetings. Of all the groups I belong to, and the couple I run, I want to say this has been the greatest of all of them, and I treasure the friendships we have built over the years, and a welcome to the new friends we're sure to find in the next years to come. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17917	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 12/25/2011
Subject: Re: Holiday greetings

I'M WISHING HAPPY & HOPEFULLY SAFE & HEALTHY WISHES TO EVERYONE EVERYWHERE!  Sincerely!   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17918	From: Nelson	Date: 12/25/2011
Subject: Re: Rivarossi 2-8-8-0

Robert, Here's the exploded view. The other link that was posted is for the N scale version. http://www.hoseeker.org/AHMRivarossiassembly/ahmbuildersbiblepage055.jpg No wiring diagram, but it's quite simple with the rear engine picking up one rail, and the front picking up another. It's really the Y6b without a trailing truck, of course. I have the early Y6 with tender pickup, which was more reliable (tender one rail, loco another). Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Dr. Robert Driggers" <robertanned@...> wrote: > > Does anyone have a wiring diagram for the Rivarossi 2-8-8-0 with the round motor. Does not pick up from tender. Both motor wires go to front truck. > Cannot get it to run on tracks. Direct power to motor works well. > Thanks, > Robert >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17919	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 12/26/2011
Subject: Re: Rivarossi 2-8-8-0

Dear Robert, I apologize profusely. Don't know where my mind was when I typed up that first reply. Nelson is absolutely correct. I must have been wired on pain meds to have missed that you were working with HO. I would still wire the tender to your motor along with the two driver engines. I think that the front engine is the right sid pickup and the rear engine the left side - please odn't take my word for it but check it with an ohm meter. Then use a red wire for the right tender pickup and black for the left and connect them with the wire from the appropiate driver frame. Rivarossi was pretty consistant with their designs and the "bottom" brush was usually left rail and the "top" brush usually the right rail. The only caution is to not try to solder wires to the brush holdfer while it is mounted in the motor. If you have to solder to the brush holder, remove it from the motor case before soldering. These models can have DCC installed fairly easily - I use the Digitrax DZ series decoder if you want transponding and the TCS M1 or their new Z (slightly smaller) if you don't need transponding. Plenty of room in the boiler for these decoders. I usually leave the tender light unconnected. If you run DCC the standard light bulb could get pretty hot running DCC voltages so I replace them with a 1.8mm or 3mm yellow white LED. Again I apologize for the stupid oversight. I can only assume that since I have an N 2-8-8-2 apart on the bench I just jumped the wrong way. If you need a LED for this loco maybe I could make it uup for missleading you by sending you a 3mm free of any charges. Just send me a snailmail address off list and I'll put one in themail for you. Jake Bechtel Gadsden, AL On 12/25/11, Nelson <greenbrier614@...> wrote: > Robert, > > Here's the exploded view. The other link that was posted is for the N scale > version. > > http://www.hoseeker.org/AHMRivarossiassembly/ahmbuildersbiblepage055.jpg > > No wiring diagram, but it's quite simple with the rear engine picking up one > rail, and the front picking up another. > > It's really the Y6b without a trailing truck, of course. I have the early Y6 > with tender pickup, which was more reliable (tender one rail, loco another). > > Nelson > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Dr. Robert Driggers" <robertanned@...> > wrote: >> >> Does anyone have a wiring diagram for the Rivarossi 2-8-8-0 with the round >> motor. Does not pick up from tender. Both motor wires go to front truck. >> Cannot get it to run on tracks. Direct power to motor works well. >> Thanks, >> Robert >> > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17920	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 12/26/2011
Subject: Rudolf

Attachments : IMG_7454_1.JPG This is off topic but a little levity. This is a picture of a 10 point Rudolf my wife shot Christmas eve. He weighs a ton. Happy Holidays Jim H

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Group: vintageHO	Message: 17921	From: Jay	Date: 12/26/2011
Subject: Re: Rudolf

HaHa! At first I thought you were going to invite us over for a venison dinner! W. Jay W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > > This is off topic but a little levity. This is a picture of a > 10 point Rudolf my wife shot Christmas eve. He weighs a ton. > > Happy Holidays > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17922	From: Jay	Date: 12/26/2011
Subject: A "Ghost" under my tree, this year! (.by Lindsay!)

Hi All! Most of us were started in model railroading when we received that first train set, usually by Lionel or American Flyer or sometimes later by Tyco, Penn Line or Athearn, so that association of the holiday season and trains remains strong. And there are still few gifts better that some unexpected trains at Christmas. At just about dark on Christmas Eve, I returned home from a friends gathering and found a small package from FEDEX on my front porch. It was sent from the upper mid-west by an almost life long friend and his wife. Inside was a "Ghost from Christmas Past," a perfectly assembled and operational early 1950's Lindsay Ghost in the standard Silver Streak NKP boxcar! Two bonus cars were a nicely assembled steel Ahearn SAL 40' double door, round roof boxcar and a Silver Streak Hart selective ballast car. They were found a couple months ago on the "used" shelves of an area hobby store he visits, (where he also found those "Oak Valley" private name freight cars which I showed here a couple years ago). A huge "Thanks" to Randy and Tara for this wonderful Christmas gift! W. Jay W. Ps. I already had an empty Ghost box in waiting for when I would find one, lol!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17923	From: cwrailman	Date: 12/26/2011
Subject: Re: Rudolf

Damm she's a good shot!!  You better behave.   Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops WEB site: CWRailman.com  Facebook: CWRailman  --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > > This is off topic but a little levity. This is a picture of a > 10 point Rudolf my wife shot Christmas eve. He weighs a ton. > > Happy Holidays > Jim H >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17924	From: cwrailman	Date: 12/26/2011
Subject: Re: A "Ghost" under my tree, this year! (.by Lindsay!)

Thankfully we never get too old to enjoy the surprises that sometimes come at Christmas.  Kudos to the folks who were able to bring back that feeling for you.   Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops WEB site: CWRailman.com  Facebook: CWRailman  --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Jay" <the_plainsman@...> wrote: > > Hi All! > > Most of us were started in model railroading when we received that first train set, usually by Lionel or American Flyer or sometimes later by Tyco, Penn Line or Athearn, so that association of the holiday season and trains remains strong. And there are still few gifts better that some unexpected trains at Christmas. At just about dark on Christmas Eve, I returned home from a friends gathering and found a small package from FEDEX on my front porch. It was sent from the upper mid-west by an almost life long friend and his wife. > > Inside was a "Ghost from Christmas Past," a perfectly assembled and operational early 1950's Lindsay Ghost in the standard Silver Streak NKP boxcar! Two bonus cars were a nicely assembled steel Ahearn SAL 40' double door, round roof boxcar and a Silver Streak Hart selective ballast car. They were found a couple months ago on the "used" shelves of an area hobby store he visits, (where he also found those "Oak Valley" private name freight cars which I showed here a couple years ago). A huge "Thanks" to Randy and Tara for this wonderful Christmas gift! > > W. Jay W. > Ps. I already had an empty Ghost box in waiting for when I would find one, lol! >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17925	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 12/26/2011
Subject: Re: Rudolf [1 Attachment]

Nice shot! I've seen a similar vehicle on the streets around here, but the one I see, has antlers on the roof as well! -Steve Neubaum --- On Mon, 12/26/11, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Rudolf [1 Attachment] To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, December 26, 2011, 9:58 AM   This is off topic but a little levity. This is a picture of a 10 point Rudolf my wife shot Christmas eve. He weighs a ton. Happy Holidays Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17926	From: Nelson	Date: 12/26/2011
Subject: Re: Rivarossi 2-8-8-0

Jake, I think you're talking about the N scale motors, which have a turned brush tube that is easily removed. The brush holders on the HO motors are stamped and formed, and you can't remove them without damaging them. The motor endbell is made of fiber reinforced plastic capable of withstanding high temperatures, and certainly won't be bothered by the few seconds of heat necessary to solder a wire to the little lug. Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jacob Bechtel <jhbivusa@...> wrote: > > Dear Robert, > I apologize profusely. Don't know where my mind was when I typed > up that first reply. > Nelson is absolutely correct. I must have been wired on pain meds > to have missed that you were working with HO. I would still wire the > tender to your motor along with the two driver engines. I think that > the front engine is the right sid pickup and the rear engine the left > side - please odn't take my word for it but check it with an ohm > meter. Then use a red wire for the right tender pickup and black for > the left and connect them with the wire from the appropiate driver > frame. Rivarossi was pretty consistant with their designs and the > "bottom" brush was usually left rail and the "top" brush usually the > right rail. > The only caution is to not try to solder wires to the brush holdfer > while it is mounted in the motor. If you have to solder to the brush > holder, remove it from the motor case before soldering. > These models can have DCC installed fairly easily - I use the > Digitrax DZ series decoder if you want transponding and the TCS M1 or > their new Z (slightly smaller) if you don't need transponding. Plenty > of room in the boiler for these decoders. I usually leave the tender > light unconnected. If you run DCC the standard light bulb could get > pretty hot running DCC voltages so I replace them with a 1.8mm or 3mm > yellow white LED. > Again I apologize for the stupid oversight. I can only assume that > since I have an N 2-8-8-2 apart on the bench I just jumped the wrong > way. > If you need a LED for this loco maybe I could make it uup for > missleading you by sending you a 3mm free of any charges. Just send > me a snailmail address off list and I'll put one in themail for you. > > Jake Bechtel > Gadsden, AL

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17927	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 12/26/2011
Subject: Re: A "Ghost" under my tree, this year! (.by Lindsay!)

That's Awesome W. Jay! Any pictures forthcoming? I am lucky enough to own two myself! There are some pics of mine in the photo set below: Lindsay Ghost Have a great New Year! Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: Jay <the_plainsman@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, December 26, 2011 11:42 AM Subject: [vintageHO] A "Ghost" under my tree, this year! (.by Lindsay!)   Hi All! Most of us were started in model railroading when we received that first train set, usually by Lionel or American Flyer or sometimes later by Tyco, Penn Line or Athearn, so that association of the holiday season and trains remains strong. And there are still few gifts better that some unexpected trains at Christmas. At just about dark on Christmas Eve, I returned home from a friends gathering and found a small package from FEDEX on my front porch. It was sent from the upper mid-west by an almost life long friend and his wife. Inside was a "Ghost from Christmas Past," a perfectly assembled and operational early 1950's Lindsay Ghost in the standard Silver Streak NKP boxcar! Two bonus cars were a nicely assembled steel Ahearn SAL 40' double door, round roof boxcar and a Silver Streak Hart selective ballast car. They were found a couple months ago on the "used" shelves of an area hobby store he visits, (where he also found those "Oak Valley" private name freight cars which I showed here a couple years ago). A huge "Thanks" to Randy and Tara for this wonderful Christmas gift! W. Jay W. Ps. I already had an empty Ghost box in waiting for when I would find one, lol!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17928	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 12/26/2011
Subject: Re: Rudolf

Steve,       It has antlers on the roof.                                     Jim On 12/26/2011 1:20 PM, Stephen Neubaum wrote:   Nice shot! I've seen a similar vehicle on the streets around here, but the one I see, has antlers on the roof as well! -Steve Neubaum --- On Mon, 12/26/11, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Rudolf [1 Attachment] To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, December 26, 2011, 9:58 AM   This is off topic but a little levity. This is a picture of a 10 point Rudolf my wife shot Christmas eve. He weighs a ton. Happy Holidays Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17929	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 12/26/2011
Subject: Re: Rivarossi 2-8-8-0

I don't have the new one Nelso, but I managed to melt a couple of the older ones. I certainly wouldn't try to remove a brush holder that was locked into the motor shell. Jake On 12/26/11, Nelson <greenbrier614@...> wrote: > Jake, I think you're talking about the N scale motors, which have a turned > brush tube that is easily removed. > > The brush holders on the HO motors are stamped and formed, and you can't > remove them without damaging them. The motor endbell is made of fiber > reinforced plastic capable of withstanding high temperatures, and certainly > won't be bothered by the few seconds of heat necessary to solder a wire to > the little lug. > > Nelson > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jacob Bechtel <jhbivusa@...> wrote: >> >> Dear Robert, >> I apologize profusely. Don't know where my mind was when I typed >> up that first reply. >> Nelson is absolutely correct. I must have been wired on pain meds >> to have missed that you were working with HO. I would still wire the >> tender to your motor along with the two driver engines. I think that >> the front engine is the right sid pickup and the rear engine the left >> side - please odn't take my word for it but check it with an ohm >> meter. Then use a red wire for the right tender pickup and black for >> the left and connect them with the wire from the appropiate driver >> frame. Rivarossi was pretty consistant with their designs and the >> "bottom" brush was usually left rail and the "top" brush usually the >> right rail. >> The only caution is to not try to solder wires to the brush holdfer >> while it is mounted in the motor. If you have to solder to the brush >> holder, remove it from the motor case before soldering. >> These models can have DCC installed fairly easily - I use the >> Digitrax DZ series decoder if you want transponding and the TCS M1 or >> their new Z (slightly smaller) if you don't need transponding. Plenty >> of room in the boiler for these decoders. I usually leave the tender >> light unconnected. If you run DCC the standard light bulb could get >> pretty hot running DCC voltages so I replace them with a 1.8mm or 3mm >> yellow white LED. >> Again I apologize for the stupid oversight. I can only assume that >> since I have an N 2-8-8-2 apart on the bench I just jumped the wrong >> way. >> If you need a LED for this loco maybe I could make it uup for >> missleading you by sending you a 3mm free of any charges. Just send >> me a snailmail address off list and I'll put one in themail for you. >> >> Jake Bechtel >> Gadsden, AL > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17930	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 12/26/2011
Subject: Re: Rudolf

Jim, I see that now that you pointed it out. The truck's antlers blend in with the background! Of course, I might not have seen them, more due to the pain meds going through me yesterday and today. Despite them, my back condition (degenerative disc disorder) is still acting up badly! -Steve Neubaum --- On Mon, 12/26/11, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Rudolf To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, December 26, 2011, 1:57 PM   Steve,       It has antlers on the roof.                                     Jim On 12/26/2011 1:20 PM, Stephen Neubaum wrote:   Nice shot! I've seen a similar vehicle on the streets around here, but the one I see, has antlers on the roof as well! -Steve Neubaum --- On Mon, 12/26/11, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Rudolf [1 Attachment] To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, December 26, 2011, 9:58 AM   This is off topic but a little levity. This is a picture of a 10 point Rudolf my wife shot Christmas eve. He weighs a ton. Happy Holidays Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17931	From: Mike Sloane	Date: 12/26/2011
Subject: Kalmbach Model Railroader DVD

I received my 75 year collection of MR for Christmas and spent several hours loading it - yes, several hours and 25 Gigabits of disc space. As promised, it is everything that was ever printed in the magazine from 1934 to 2009 (912 issues) - letters, projects, drawings, ads, etc. And it should answer a LOT of questions about what product was advertised when, etc. The first couple of decades seem to mostly about building engines and track - very little thought was given to scenery, realistic track planning, actual operations, other than just "running trains", or even rolling stock. But things started to change about the time I started buying the magazine as a child in the middle '50s. And what a trip down "Memory Lane"! Unfortunately, there are some problems with the program: everything is there, but the search engine tends to give you everything or nothing, depending on how you phrase your searches. I was looking for the series of articles on building the tethered momentum throttle that I built <http://public.fotki.com/mikesloane/model_railroad/throttle.html> and I still haven't found it. But I did find the diesel sound generator that I built, only because I was smart enough to label the unit correctly. <http://public.fotki.com/mikesloane/model_railroad/soundgenerators.html> But I haven't found the diesel horn simulator I also built about the same time. Another small problem is that there is no way to rotate the pages, and many of the earlier drawings were printed at 90° to make the locos and cars fit better. Of course, you can print them out on paper or to a file, but that seem tedious. Strangely enough, I found the copy easier to read on my older system with an "800x600" setting than the fancy machines with high resolution graphics cards/monitors. There is probably a setting that I need to adjust. On the other hand, I have piles and piles of paper copies of the magazine (and others) that are not sorted out nor do I have any way of searching, so the digital version saves me from having to deal with that problem. In fact, at this point, I am thinking seriously of selling or giving away my "collection" of old MR's. Mike

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17932	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 12/26/2011
Subject: Identity?

Probably too new for this group, but hard to tell. Photo album labeled "Trolleys". in a box, NO manufacturer name, no date, no address....inside, a 2-truck (unpowered) trolley with dual poles, and an (unpowered) cable car. Anybody have any ideas? Thanks. Dave

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17933	From: Nelson	Date: 12/26/2011
Subject: Re: Rivarossi 2-8-8-0

Jake, the early large ball bearing motors in the 50's & early 60's that were in the Docksides, 0-8-0's, and 2-8-0's had endbells that were just black styrene, and they could melt if you applied heat too long. They have a shiny finish, instead of the matte look of the higher temp plastic they started using sometime in the 60's. Nelson --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Jacob Bechtel <jhbivusa@...> wrote: > > I don't have the new one Nelso, but I managed to melt a couple of the > older ones. I certainly wouldn't try to remove a brush holder that > was locked into the motor shell. > Jake

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17934	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 12/26/2011
Subject: Re: Identity?

Dave, This might be way off, but I think that you have a Bachmann special there. I seem to recall the cable car, and the trucks on the streetcar look like freight car trucks. It looks like one of the "speciality" items that Kader would have made in the late 70s and early 80s in an effort to promote interest in the very sick Bachmann Brothers line. This was about the time that I closed up the Omaha store and Kader was trying hard to keep the Bachmann line from going totally away. They brought forth a bunch of operating accessories, the 2-8-0, 4-8-4 and Texas. Bachmann Brothers had been fighting every effort Kader made to improve the products and packaging and when Kader finally got control they unleashed an onslaught of new products.Including street cars, operating cars, cow on the track, etc. Look for anything that would indicate that it was made in Hong Kong or Crown Colony. One of the names on Kader products made for Bachmann Brothers was Crown Model Products. If it is one of their products made before China took over Hong Kong somewhere it should indicate that it is a Hong Kong or Crown Colony product, it might only be a symbol of a crown, or a BB symbol. Jake Bechtel Gadsden, AL On 12/26/11, trainsnwrcs <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: > Probably too new for this group, but hard to tell. Photo album labeled > "Trolleys". in a box, NO manufacturer name, no date, no address....inside, a > 2-truck (unpowered) trolley with dual poles, and an (unpowered) cable car. > Anybody have any ideas? > Thanks. > Dave > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17935	From: Fred Krause	Date: 12/26/2011
Subject: Vintage HO Scale Loco kits

Hello Group I have acquired 7 Loco kits Completely intact.  They a in Brand new condition. Round House kits: 0-6-0 Switcher Kit 2L1 4-6-0 Ten Wheeler Kit 455 2-6-2 Prairie Kit 6L1 4-4-2 Atlantic Kit 4L1 Tyco 2-8-2 Mikado Loco & tender Kit 208 Civil War Loco "The General" kit 210-1500 4-6-0 Ten Wheeler Kit 233 If you are interested in acquiring any of these kits you can contact me at Structures and Trains by Fred 630.761.6550

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17936	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 12/26/2011
Subject: Re: Identity?

That's a set of two unpowered units using Bachman tooling but about 6 more layers of paint. They were given away by "Reader's Digest" a few years back as a promotion. (Maybe 10 years or so ago. There are an AWFUL lot of them floating around (I had 4 sets, I traded three of three of the cable cars to another member for his three brills so I now have 7 brills and 1 cable car :-) Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "trainsnwrcs" <idioticyahoo@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, December 26, 2011 4:59 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Identity? > Probably too new for this group, but hard to tell. Photo album labeled > "Trolleys". in a box, NO manufacturer name, no date, no address....inside, > a 2-truck (unpowered) trolley with dual poles, and an (unpowered) cable > car. > Anybody have any ideas? > Thanks. > Dave > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17937	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 12/26/2011
Subject: Re: Identity?

----- Original Message ----- From: "Jacob Bechtel" <jhbivusa@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, December 26, 2011 6:14 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Identity? > Dave, > > This might be way off, but I think that you have a Bachmann special > there. I seem to recall the cable car, and the trucks on the > streetcar look like freight car trucks. It looks like one of the > "speciality" items that Kader would have made in the late 70s and > early 80s in an effort to promote interest in the very sick Bachmann > Brothers line. This was about the time that I closed up the Omaha > store and Kader was trying hard to keep the Bachmann line from going > totally away. They brought forth a bunch of operating accessories, > the 2-8-0, 4-8-4 and Texas. Bachmann Brothers had been fighting every > effort Kader made to improve the products and packaging and when Kader > finally got control they unleashed an onslaught of new > products.Including street cars, operating cars, cow on the track, etc. > Look for anything that would indicate that it was made in Hong Kong > or Crown Colony. One of the names on Kader products made for Bachmann > Brothers was Crown Model Products. > If it is one of their products made before China took over Hong > Kong somewhere it should indicate that it is a Hong Kong or Crown > Colony product, it might only be a symbol of a crown, or a BB symbol. > > Jake Bechtel > Gadsden, AL You're close. As I posted in another message they are Bachmann bodies, but Kadee had nothing to do with it. They were given away as a promotion by the "Reader's Digest" about 10 or so years ago. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17938	From: Charles	Date: 12/26/2011
Subject: Re: Kalmbach Model Railroader DVD

For rotating pages: Two ideas: 1) Just tilt your monitor 90 degrees. (Just kidding). 2) Depending on what version of Windows you have (if we are talking Windows) you can surround the part of the screen you are interested in and then save it and do with it what you wish. For older Windows, you can get various free screen capture programs (such as Gadwin) that let you do more than just ALT-PrintScrn and Ctrl-PrintScrn such as surrounding a screen area. Regarding searching. I haven't played with it much, but it seems very thorough. I put in my name (knowing I never had an article or letter in MR) and it found one hit which was a long ago classified ad. Chuck Kinzer --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Mike Sloane <mikesloane@...> wrote: > > I received my 75 year collection of MR for Christmas and spent several > hours loading it - yes, several hours and 25 Gigabits of disc space. > > As promised, it is everything that was ever printed in the magazine from > 1934 to 2009 (912 issues) - letters, projects, drawings, ads, etc. And > it should answer a LOT of questions about what product was advertised > when, etc. > > The first couple of decades seem to mostly about building engines and > track - very little thought was given to scenery, realistic track > planning, actual operations, other than just "running trains", or even > rolling stock. But things started to change about the time I started > buying the magazine as a child in the middle '50s. And what a trip down > "Memory Lane"! > > Unfortunately, there are some problems with the program: everything is > there, but the search engine tends to give you everything or nothing, > depending on how you phrase your searches. I was looking for the series > of articles on building the tethered momentum throttle that I built > <http://public.fotki.com/mikesloane/model_railroad/throttle.html> and I > still haven't found it. But I did find the diesel sound generator that I > built, only because I was smart enough to label the unit correctly. > <http://public.fotki.com/mikesloane/model_railroad/soundgenerators.html> > But I haven't found the diesel horn simulator I also built about the > same time. > > Another small problem is that there is no way to rotate the pages, and > many of the earlier drawings were printed at 90° to make the locos and > cars fit better. Of course, you can print them out on paper or to a > file, but that seem tedious. > > Strangely enough, I found the copy easier to read on my older system > with an "800x600" setting than the fancy machines with high resolution > graphics cards/monitors. There is probably a setting that I need to adjust. > > On the other hand, I have piles and piles of paper copies of the > magazine (and others) that are not sorted out nor do I have any way of > searching, so the digital version saves me from having to deal with that > problem. In fact, at this point, I am thinking seriously of selling or > giving away my "collection" of old MR's. > > Mike >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17939	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 12/26/2011
Subject: Re: Identity?

Reader's Digest.....seem to remember that. We must have gotten them for my Brother and his son at some point. I dragged them home from the Family Christmas Gathering to clean them up. I am REALLY impressed with the plastic chrome plated wheelsets. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > That's a set of two unpowered units using Bachman tooling but about 6 more > layers of paint. > > They were given away by "Reader's Digest" a few years back as a promotion. > (Maybe 10 years or so ago. There are an AWFUL lot of them floating around > (I had 4 sets, I traded three of three of the cable cars to another member > for his three brills so I now have 7 brills and 1 cable car :-) > > Don > > Don Dellmann > don.dellmann@... > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ > http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction > Owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "trainsnwrcs" <idioticyahoo@...> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Monday, December 26, 2011 4:59 PM > Subject: [vintageHO] Identity? > > > > Probably too new for this group, but hard to tell. Photo album labeled > > "Trolleys". in a box, NO manufacturer name, no date, no address....inside, > > a 2-truck (unpowered) trolley with dual poles, and an (unpowered) cable > > car. > > Anybody have any ideas? > > Thanks. > > Dave > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17940	From: Larry	Date: 12/26/2011
Subject: Re: Identity?

Jake, I think you are right on the mark. Must have been a huge production run of these as there are many of them out there. If I remember they were sold in many unusual venues including advertisements in Parade Magazine at a very reasonable price. You can find these listed all of the time on eBay as sets or individually going for next to nothing or listed at exorbitant prices from those who feel they must have some value to the trolley enthusiasts. Unfortunately not. The street car can be converted into a tavern or diner for a nice little vignette scene on the layout or display. I will someday have a bunch of them in a scrap yard on my layout with one having fake flames coming through the burning structure as if being destroyed as most were at the end of their service. Larry Miller III From: Jacob Bechtel <jhbivusa@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, December 26, 2011 6:14 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Identity? Dave,   This might be way off, but I think that you have a Bachmann special there.  I seem to recall the cable car, and the trucks on the streetcar look like freight car trucks.  It looks like one of the "speciality" items that Kader would have made in the late 70s and early 80s in an effort to promote interest in the very sick Bachmann Brothers line.  This was about the time that I closed up the Omaha store and Kader was trying hard to keep the Bachmann line from going totally away.  They brought forth a bunch of operating accessories, the 2-8-0, 4-8-4 and Texas.  Bachmann Brothers had been fighting every effort Kader made to improve the products and packaging and when Kader finally got control they unleashed an onslaught of new products.Including street cars, operating cars, cow on the track, etc. Look for anything that would indicate that it was made in Hong Kong or Crown Colony.  One of the names on Kader products made for Bachmann Brothers was Crown Model Products.   If it is one of their products made before China took over Hong Kong somewhere it should indicate that it is a Hong Kong or Crown Colony product,  it might only be a symbol of a crown, or a BB symbol. Jake Bechtel Gadsden, AL On 12/26/11, trainsnwrcs <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: > Probably too new for this group, but hard to tell. Photo album labeled > "Trolleys". in a box, NO manufacturer name, no date, no address....inside, a > 2-truck (unpowered) trolley with dual poles, and an (unpowered) cable car. > Anybody have any ideas? > Thanks. > Dave > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings:     Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join     (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email:     vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com     vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:     vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17941	From: hooligan	Date: 12/26/2011
Subject: Re: Kalmbach Model Railroader DVD

Mike , wasn't that a TAT 4 throttle ? HH --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Charles" <ckinzer@...> wrote: > > For rotating pages: > > Two ideas: > > 1) Just tilt your monitor 90 degrees. (Just kidding). > > 2) Depending on what version of Windows you have (if we are talking Windows) you can surround the part of the screen you are interested in and then save it and do with it what you wish. For older Windows, you can get various free screen capture programs (such as Gadwin) that let you do more than just ALT-PrintScrn and Ctrl-PrintScrn such as surrounding a screen area. > > Regarding searching. I haven't played with it much, but it seems very thorough. I put in my name (knowing I never had an article or letter in MR) and it found one hit which was a long ago classified ad. > > Chuck Kinzer > > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Mike Sloane <mikesloane@> wrote: > > > > I received my 75 year collection of MR for Christmas and spent several > > hours loading it - yes, several hours and 25 Gigabits of disc space. > > > > As promised, it is everything that was ever printed in the magazine from > > 1934 to 2009 (912 issues) - letters, projects, drawings, ads, etc. And > > it should answer a LOT of questions about what product was advertised > > when, etc. > > > > The first couple of decades seem to mostly about building engines and > > track - very little thought was given to scenery, realistic track > > planning, actual operations, other than just "running trains", or even > > rolling stock. But things started to change about the time I started > > buying the magazine as a child in the middle '50s. And what a trip down > > "Memory Lane"! > > > > Unfortunately, there are some problems with the program: everything is > > there, but the search engine tends to give you everything or nothing, > > depending on how you phrase your searches. I was looking for the series > > of articles on building the tethered momentum throttle that I built > > <http://public.fotki.com/mikesloane/model_railroad/throttle.html> and I > > still haven't found it. But I did find the diesel sound generator that I > > built, only because I was smart enough to label the unit correctly. > > <http://public.fotki.com/mikesloane/model_railroad/soundgenerators.html> > > But I haven't found the diesel horn simulator I also built about the > > same time. > > > > Another small problem is that there is no way to rotate the pages, and > > many of the earlier drawings were printed at 90° to make the locos and > > cars fit better. Of course, you can print them out on paper or to a > > file, but that seem tedious. > > > > Strangely enough, I found the copy easier to read on my older system > > with an "800x600" setting than the fancy machines with high resolution > > graphics cards/monitors. There is probably a setting that I need to adjust. > > > > On the other hand, I have piles and piles of paper copies of the > > magazine (and others) that are not sorted out nor do I have any way of > > searching, so the digital version saves me from having to deal with that > > problem. In fact, at this point, I am thinking seriously of selling or > > giving away my "collection" of old MR's. > > > > Mike > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17942	From: Larry	Date: 12/26/2011
Subject: Re: Identity?

Don, Yes, Reader's Digest had them too. I do remember seeing these being sold several places that were not the usual model railroader or hobby shop venue. I believe they were just trying to recoup their costs and more through volume of sales. Lots of people who would never purchase them bought them feeling they were a collector's item. Beanie Babies had the same thing going for them. Larry Miller III From: Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, December 26, 2011 6:45 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Identity? You're close.  As I posted in another message they are Bachmann bodies, but Kadee had nothing to do with it.  They were given away as a promotion by the "Reader's Digest" about 10 or so years ago. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/ <*> Your email settings:     Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO/join     (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email:     vintageHO-digest@yahoogroups.com     vintageHO-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:     vintageHO-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17943	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 12/26/2011
Subject: Re: Identity?

Hi Don, NOT KADEE - KADER, as in Kader Industrial Holdings. Kader is the parent company of Bachmann, and builds for almost everyone in the MRR industry that they don't own outright. Kader Industrial Holdings has almost 50,000 employees, (5,000 of them are engineers and tool and die makers) - Kadee has 30 employees. Oh, I remembered where I saw the open car - it is the basis for the Bachmann San Francisco Cable Car. Jake Bechtel Gadsden, AL On 12/26/11, Don Dellmann <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jacob Bechtel" <jhbivusa@...> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Monday, December 26, 2011 6:14 PM > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Identity? > > >> Dave, >> >> This might be way off, but I think that you have a Bachmann special >> there. >> >> Jake Bechtel >> Gadsden, AL > > You're close. As I posted in another message they are Bachmann bodies, but > Kadee had nothing to do with it. They were given away as a promotion by the > "Reader's Digest" about 10 or so years ago. > > Don > > Don Dellmann > don.dellmann@... > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ > http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction > Owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17944	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 12/26/2011
Subject: Re: Identity?

Don and others, I had to dig out my dealer catalogs from the 80s but here is what you've got. The set is a promotional item that was nearly a give away. The bodies are the Bachmann San Fancisco Cable Car body - Bachmann powered unit #41-0640-** and the trolly is the Brill Trolly body - Bachmann powered unit #41-0610-** The powered Brill sold for $17.50 MSRP and the Cable Car for $25 in 1987, although the Brill had been around since Kader Industrial bought Bachmann Brothers in 1980. The Cable car was released between '80 & '87 but I've forgotten exactly when, but I think it was 85 or 86 Jake Bechtel Gadsden, AL . On 12/26/11, trainsnwrcs <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: > > Reader's Digest.....seem to remember that. We must have gotten them for my > Brother and his son at some point. I dragged them home from the Family > Christmas Gathering to clean them up. > I am REALLY impressed with the plastic chrome plated wheelsets. > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote: >> >> That's a set of two unpowered units using Bachman tooling but about 6 more >> >> layers of paint. >> >> They were given away by "Reader's Digest" a few years back as a promotion. >> >> (Maybe 10 years or so ago. There are an AWFUL lot of them floating around >> >> (I had 4 sets, I traded three of three of the cable cars to another member >> >> for his three brills so I now have 7 brills and 1 cable car :-) >> >> Don >> >> Don Dellmann >> don.dellmann@... >> http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ >> http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction >> Owner >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "trainsnwrcs" <idioticyahoo@...> >> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> >> Sent: Monday, December 26, 2011 4:59 PM >> Subject: [vintageHO] Identity? >> >> >> > Probably too new for this group, but hard to tell. Photo album labeled >> > "Trolleys". in a box, NO manufacturer name, no date, no >> > address....inside, >> > a 2-truck (unpowered) trolley with dual poles, and an (unpowered) cable >> > car. >> > Anybody have any ideas? >> > Thanks. >> > Dave >> > >> > >> > >> > ------------------------------------ >> > >> > Yahoo! Groups Links >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17945	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 12/27/2011
Subject: Re: Identity?

The Brill is still around today with a better motor/power truck. They are the staple of our trolley club. (in addition to the 7 unpowered ones I mentioned I'm running 4 powered ones that have been modified with repaint and good trolley poles, one even has an arched roof now.) The Brill is sort of the "Athearn F-7" of traction modeling. As much as I despise Bachmann, they have kept interest alive in trolley modeling. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jacob Bechtel" <jhbivusa@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2011 1:31 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Identity? > Don and others, > > I had to dig out my dealer catalogs from the 80s but here is what you've > got. > > The set is a promotional item that was nearly a give away. The bodies > are the Bachmann San Fancisco Cable Car body - Bachmann powered unit > #41-0640-** and the trolly is the Brill Trolly body - Bachmann powered > unit #41-0610-** The powered Brill sold for $17.50 MSRP and the > Cable Car for $25 in 1987, although the Brill had been around since > Kader Industrial bought Bachmann Brothers in 1980. The Cable car was > released between '80 & '87 but I've forgotten exactly when, but I > think it was 85 or 86 > > Jake Bechtel > Gadsden, AL > . > > On 12/26/11, trainsnwrcs <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: >> >> Reader's Digest.....seem to remember that. We must have gotten them for >> my >> Brother and his son at some point. I dragged them home from the Family >> Christmas Gathering to clean them up. >> I am REALLY impressed with the plastic chrome plated wheelsets. >> >> --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> >> wrote: >>> >>> That's a set of two unpowered units using Bachman tooling but about 6 >>> more >>> >>> layers of paint. >>> >>> They were given away by "Reader's Digest" a few years back as a >>> promotion. >>> >>> (Maybe 10 years or so ago. There are an AWFUL lot of them floating >>> around >>> >>> (I had 4 sets, I traded three of three of the cable cars to another >>> member >>> >>> for his three brills so I now have 7 brills and 1 cable car :-) >>> >>> Don >>> >>> Don Dellmann >>> don.dellmann@... >>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ >>> http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction >>> Owner >>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO >>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "trainsnwrcs" <idioticyahoo@...> >>> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> >>> Sent: Monday, December 26, 2011 4:59 PM >>> Subject: [vintageHO] Identity? >>> >>> >>> > Probably too new for this group, but hard to tell. Photo album labeled >>> > "Trolleys". in a box, NO manufacturer name, no date, no >>> > address....inside, >>> > a 2-truck (unpowered) trolley with dual poles, and an (unpowered) >>> > cable >>> > car. >>> > Anybody have any ideas? >>> > Thanks. >>> > Dave >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > ------------------------------------ >>> > >>> > Yahoo! Groups Links >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------ >> >> Yahoo! Groups Links >> >> >> >> > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17946	From: cwrailman	Date: 12/27/2011
Subject: Re: Kalmbach Model Railroader DVD

I have about six years of MR bound editions from the 1904's and then hard copies of MR & RMC from the 1950 up to the late 1980's, when I stopped buying the magazines because they lacked the content I enjoy.  These are housed in a specially designed cabinet with each year on it's own little shelf.  I am interested to hear what those of you who have gotten this collection are experiencing.  It's basically the same as I get every time I pull a year of issues out of their appropriate shelf in my cabinet and sit down to go through them.  I get more out of an hour with those old magazines than any time spent with the current issues I get handed down to me.  It's interesting to read some of the letters written to the editor and the concerns those modelers had about the loss of kits and the invasion of plastic RTR.   I hope everyone who got that collection has a great time reviewing the past.      Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops WEB site: CWRailman.com  Facebook: CWRailman      --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Mike Sloane <mikesloane@...> wrote: > > I received my 75 year collection of MR for Christmas and spent several > hours loading it - yes, several hours and 25 Gigabits of disc space. > > As promised, it is everything that was ever printed in the magazine from > 1934 to 2009 (912 issues) - letters, projects, drawings, ads, etc. And > it should answer a LOT of questions about what product was advertised > when, etc. > > The first couple of decades seem to mostly about building engines and > track - very little thought was given to scenery, realistic track > planning, actual operations, other than just "running trains", or even > rolling stock. But things started to change about the time I started > buying the magazine as a child in the middle '50s. And what a trip down > "Memory Lane"! > > Unfortunately, there are some problems with the program: everything is > there, but the search engine tends to give you everything or nothing, > depending on how you phrase your searches. I was looking for the series > of articles on building the tethered momentum throttle that I built > <http://public.fotki.com/mikesloane/model_railroad/throttle.html> and I > still haven't found it. But I did find the diesel sound generator that I > built, only because I was smart enough to label the unit correctly. > <http://public.fotki.com/mikesloane/model_railroad/soundgenerators.html> > But I haven't found the diesel horn simulator I also built about the > same time. > > Another small problem is that there is no way to rotate the pages, and > many of the earlier drawings were printed at 90° to make the locos and > cars fit better. Of course, you can print them out on paper or to a > file, but that seem tedious. > > Strangely enough, I found the copy easier to read on my older system > with an "800x600" setting than the fancy machines with high resolution > graphics cards/monitors. There is probably a setting that I need to adjust. > > On the other hand, I have piles and piles of paper copies of the > magazine (and others) that are not sorted out nor do I have any way of > searching, so the digital version saves me from having to deal with that > problem. In fact, at this point, I am thinking seriously of selling or > giving away my "collection" of old MR's. > > Mike >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17947	From: Mike Sloane	Date: 12/27/2011
Subject: Re: Kalmbach Model Railroader DVD

I can understand how you feel, Denny, and I get pretty much the same feeling reading through the old issues on the monitor. One thing I noticed immediately was that there was a LOT more reader interaction in the the old issue, with the letters taking up 2 and sometimes 3 pages. (I am well aware that "letters" don't sell ad space.) In one letter from the '50s, for example, the writer took the magazine to task for printing drawings of a snow plow that still had all of its ladders and other appliances still attached. Apparently, they were only mounted by the manufacturer for delivery to conform with interchange rules, then immediately removed by the railroad, as they just got in the way or would be damaged in operation. That kind of thing is very obviously missing from the current issues that barely have room for a couple of brief notes, if that. Even in the '50s, there was also discussions about "NMRA" couplers, plastic vs. wood/metal, RTR vs. kits vs. "scratch built" (kitbashing had yet to be invented), and complaints about the rising cost of modeling. Earlier editions had discussions about "standard" gauge vs. O vs. HO, 3 rail vs. 2 rail. and AC vs. DC (more than one trolly line was described as running with 110 volt AC overhead wires!). Solving problems, kinks, tips, and prototype details also took up a fair amount of space, as did the "Bull Session" at the back. I guess that has been replace my Tony Koester's "Trains of thought" (that I rarely read). One contribution to the "kinks" column suggested using "inexpensive phonograph needles" for scribing lines. :-) It is a lot of fun to read, but some of the "projects" were pretty scary to me (as a kid): building a steam engine or an Alco road switcher from brass and other pieces. It is impressive to see what some modelers accomplished, but the quality of the finished product most often had only a passing resemblance to the prototype. Also amusing to me is seeing the operating sessions with all the middle-aged men wearing coats and ties and smoking. Of course I realize that some of them dressed up for the photographer. Mike On 12/27/2011 12:28 PM, cwrailman wrote: > I have about six years of MR bound editions from the 1904's and then > hard copies of MR & RMC from the 1950 up to the late 1980's, when I > stopped buying the magazines because they lacked the content I > enjoy.These are housed in a specially designed cabinet with each year on > it's own little shelf.I am interested to hear what those of you who have > gotten this collection are experiencing.It's basically the same as I get > every time I pull a year of issues out of their appropriate shelf in my > cabinet and sit down to go through them.I get more out of an hour with > those old magazines than any time spent with the current issues I get > handed down to me. It's interesting to read some of the letters written > to the editor and the concerns those modelers had about the loss of kits > and the invasion of plastic RTR. > > I hope everyone who got that collection has a great time reviewing the past. > > Denny >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17948	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 12/27/2011
Subject: Re: Kalmbach Model Railroader DVD

You just reminded me that I want to locate and print the build a Brill article from the late '99 or so MR.  The way the roof is built touches on genius. I never had a good idea on how to cut several of the needed roof supports that are difficult curves and need several duplicates to make the roof ends. But now I have a cutter that can make as many duplicate parts as I need. Mike Bauers On Dec 27, 2011, at 11:28 AM, cwrailman wrote: I have about six years of MR bound editions from the 1904's and then hard copies of MR & RMC from the 1950 up to the late 1980's, when I stopped buying the magazines because they lacked the content I enjoy.  These are housed in a specially designed cabinet with each year on it's own little shelf.  I am interested to hear what those of you who have gotten this collection are experiencing.  It's basically the same as I get every time I pull a year of issues out of their appropriate shelf in my cabinet and sit down to go through them.  I get more out of an hour with those old magazines than any time spent with the current issues I get handed down to me.  It's interesting to read some of the letters written to the editor and the concerns those modelers had about the loss of kits and the invasion of plastic RTR.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17949	From: cwrailman	Date: 12/27/2011
Subject: Re: Kalmbach Model Railroader DVD

AH!!!!  He noticed, he noticed!!  Mike, Great to hear your observations.  That is the kind of content in the early magazines that I am speaking about.  It goes along with what I believe this board is all about.  Modelers were "builders" then.  Another thing you will note is that many modelers back then had very restricted budgets and many would have only 20 – 30 models with maybe two to three pieces of motive power.  Not the hundreds that some modelers own these days.  But then they had time invested in building each of those models.  Some models were not done well but they did represent an effort by the builder unlike today where the hardest thing some guys do is pull their charge card out of their wallets and walk home with 20 new cars assembles in China .   Denny Janitor in Training CW Loco and Car Rebuild Shops WEB site: CWRailman.com  Facebook: CWRailman  --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, Mike Sloane <mikesloane@...> wrote: > > I can understand how you feel, Denny, and I get pretty much the same > feeling reading through the old issues on the monitor. > > One thing I noticed immediately was that there was a LOT more reader > interaction in the the old issue, with the letters taking up 2 and > sometimes 3 pages. (I am well aware that "letters" don't sell ad space.) > In one letter from the '50s, for example, the writer took the magazine > to task for printing drawings of a snow plow that still had all of its > ladders and other appliances still attached. Apparently, they were only > mounted by the manufacturer for delivery to conform with interchange > rules, then immediately removed by the railroad, as they just got in the > way or would be damaged in operation. That kind of thing is very > obviously missing from the current issues that barely have room for a > couple of brief notes, if that. > > Even in the '50s, there was also discussions about "NMRA" couplers, > plastic vs. wood/metal, RTR vs. kits vs. "scratch built" (kitbashing had > yet to be invented), and complaints about the rising cost of modeling. > Earlier editions had discussions about "standard" gauge vs. O vs. HO, 3 > rail vs. 2 rail. and AC vs. DC (more than one trolly line was described > as running with 110 volt AC overhead wires!). > > Solving problems, kinks, tips, and prototype details also took up a fair > amount of space, as did the "Bull Session" at the back. I guess that has > been replace my Tony Koester's "Trains of thought" (that I rarely read). > One contribution to the "kinks" column suggested using "inexpensive > phonograph needles" for scribing lines. :-) > > It is a lot of fun to read, but some of the "projects" were pretty scary > to me (as a kid): building a steam engine or an Alco road switcher from > brass and other pieces. It is impressive to see what some modelers > accomplished, but the quality of the finished product most often had > only a passing resemblance to the prototype. > > Also amusing to me is seeing the operating sessions with all the > middle-aged men wearing coats and ties and smoking. Of course I realize > that some of them dressed up for the photographer. > > Mike > > On 12/27/2011 12:28 PM, cwrailman wrote: > > I have about six years of MR bound editions from the 1904's and then > > hard copies of MR & RMC from the 1950 up to the late 1980's, when I > > stopped buying the magazines because they lacked the content I > > enjoy.These are housed in a specially designed cabinet with each year on > > it's own little shelf.I am interested to hear what those of you who have > > gotten this collection are experiencing.It's basically the same as I get > > every time I pull a year of issues out of their appropriate shelf in my > > cabinet and sit down to go through them.I get more out of an hour with > > those old magazines than any time spent with the current issues I get > > handed down to me. It's interesting to read some of the letters written > > to the editor and the concerns those modelers had about the loss of kits > > and the invasion of plastic RTR. > > > > I hope everyone who got that collection has a great time reviewing the past. > > > > Denny > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17950	From: ckinzer@att.net	Date: 12/27/2011
Subject: Re: Kalmbach Model Railroader DVD

It is also quite fascinating to read the issues during the WWII years.   I had physical copies until I got the DVD set and just gave the copies away.   One interesting thing about them is that the paper turned quite brownish.  This was due to lack of availability of higher quality paper due to war demands.  The magazine editor even apologizes for that.  And the various patriotic comments are certainly a sign of those times.   And yes, you can see how the hobby evolved as well as the magazine.  It is amusing to see how the covers had a period where there was always a person on the cover and then change to equipment only.   ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike Bauers To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2011 10:31 AM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Kalmbach Model Railroader DVD   You just reminded me that I want to locate and print the build a Brill article from the late '99 or so MR.  The way the roof is built touches on genius. I never had a good idea on how to cut several of the needed roof supports that are difficult curves and need several duplicates to make the roof ends. But now I have a cutter that can make as many duplicate parts as I need. Mike Bauers On Dec 27, 2011, at 11:28 AM, cwrailman wrote: I have about six years of MR bound editions from the 1904's and then hard copies of MR & RMC from the 1950 up to the late 1980's, when I stopped buying the magazines because they lacked the content I enjoy.  These are housed in a specially designed cabinet with each year on it's own little shelf.  I am interested to hear what those of you who have gotten this collection are experiencing.  It's basically the same as I get every time I pull a year of issues out of their appropriate shelf in my cabinet and sit down to go through them.  I get more out of an hour with those old magazines than any time spent with the current issues I get handed down to me.  It's interesting to read some of the letters written to the editor and the concerns those modelers had about the loss of kits and the invasion of plastic RTR.

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17951	From: ckinzer@att.net	Date: 12/27/2011
Subject: History of the hobby

Speaking of how the hobby has evolved by looking at the pages of MR over the years, I thought some might find the following interesting.   These are some hobby related yellow page listings from phone books for Oak Park, Illinois (the first suburb west of Chicago and not all listings are in Oak Park proper, some are nearby):   Note:  "Realistic Models" was always THE model train store in Oak Park.  Reyff's was the big toy store also with a large model and hobby department including quite a few trains.  Both were institutions for decades.   1943:  Note:  There aren't a lot of listings, and there is the notion of "model makers":      "Hobby Supplies" section           Airplane Supply Shop           Earl's Hangar      "Model Makers' Supplies" section           Greco L. E. Modern Hobbycraft   1946:  Note:  Postwar now, lots of "model maker" activity apparantly      "Hobby Supplies" section           Airplane Supply Shop      "Model Makers' Supplies" section           Airplane Supply Shop           Greco L. E. Modern Hobbycraft           Manton's Bicycle and Sport Shop           Oak Park Camera           Realistic Models   1952:  Note:  Now "model and hobby", the word "maker" is now absent.  Lionel trains is featured.      "Hobby Shops"  "See Model and Hobby Supplies; also Arts and Crafts Supplies"      "Model and Hobby Supplies"           Airplane Supply Shop           Arnold's Model Shop           Elmwood Park News Agency           Goldeck's Hobby Shop           Greco L. E. Modern Hobbycraft           Hal's Toy Land           Lionel Trains                Security Furniture and Appliance           Manor Hobby Shop           Mazda Magic and Hobby Shop           Realistic Models (also ad showing train drawing and "Lionel Authorized Service Station")           Reyff's Toys & Hobbycraft (also ad showing train drawing and "American Flyer Service Station, Lionel Trains)           Walter's Cycle Shop           Windsor Radio and Hobby Center           Zenith Hobby Shop   1958:  Note:  Lionel Trains even more featured and also American Flyer.      "Hobby Shops"  "See Model and Hobby Supplies; also Arts and Crafts Supplies"      "Model and Hobby Supplies"           Airplane Supply           American Flyer Trains                Art's Hobby and Service Center                Reyff's Toys & Hobbycraft           Arnold's Hobby Shop           Beckert's Hobby Lobby (ad)           Greco L. E. Modern Hobbycraft           House of Hobbies The (ad)           Lionel Trains                Realistic Models                Reyff's Toys & Hobbycraft           Manor Hobby Shop           Mazda Magic and Hobby Shop           Nor-Aust Hobby Gift & Toy Shop           Realistic Models (ad)           Reyff's Toys & Hobbycraft           Simonsen Model Supplies           Toy & Hobby Town   1964  Note:  Now not only "maker" is absent, but "model" is also absent.       "Hobby Shops (also see Arts and Crafts Supplies)" section           Airplane Model & Hobby Shop           Arnold's Hobby Shop           G & F Sports Shop           Greco L. E. Modern Hobbycraft           Hobbytown           Lionel Trains                Airplane Model & Hobby Shop                Realistic Models           Mazda Magic and Hobby Shop           Realistic Models (ad)           Reyff's Toys & Hobbycraft (ad)           South Oak Park Hobby Shop           Zimm's Hobbyland Toyland                 1965  Note:  Slot cars rears its ugly head.      "Hobby Shops (also see Arts and Crafts Supplies)" section           Airplane Model & Hobby Shop           Arnold's Hobby Shop           G & F Sports Shop           Greco L. E. Modern Hobbycraft           Hobbytown           Lionel Trains                Airplane Model & Hobby Shop                Realistic Models           Moto-Rama Raceways, Inc.           Realistic Models (ad)           Reyff's Toys & Hobbycraft (ad)           Tom Thumb Family Hobby Center           Zimm's Hobbyland Toyland   I don't have anything more recent, but it's a safe guess it would be a short list.  Most or all of the above are now long gone, especially Realistic Models and Reyff's.   Chuck Kinzer

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17952	From: acace@juno.com	Date: 12/27/2011
Subject: Re: History of the hobby

One survivor is The Model Railroad Shop in New Jersey. Been there since 1933. I've visited a couple of times and although it's not stocked with old kits, it does 'feel' like it should be. Howell Day used to live nearby and I did meet him once at his house. Google it and take a look. Dick

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17953	From: Mike Sloane	Date: 12/27/2011
Subject: Re: Kalmbach Model Railroader DVD

If it was, I can't find "TAT 4" by searching the DVD's. If you can give me a month and year, I would greatly appreciate it. Mike On 12/26/2011 8:41 PM, hooligan wrote: > Mike , wasn't that a TAT 4 throttle ? HH >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17954	From: Rick Jones	Date: 12/27/2011
Subject: Re: Kalmbach Model Railroader DVD

On 12/27/2011 5:58 PM, Mike Sloane wrote: > If it was, I can't find "TAT 4" by searching the DVD's. If you can give > me a month and year, I would greatly appreciate it. I believe that it is properly titled the "TAT IV", not "TAT 4". -- Rick Jones "If a refugee is one who takes refuge, and a divorcee is one who's been divorced, what, then, does this imply about the New York Yankee?" -Arte Johnson, "Rowan & Martin's Laugh-In"

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17955	From: ckinzer@att.net	Date: 12/27/2011
Subject: Re: Kalmbach Model Railroader DVD

Yes.  It is "TAT IV" and TAT stands for "True Action Throttle".   It took me awhile searching, but here are the issues:   February 1962 "Getting Closer to Realistic Performance".  This includes the original TAT, TAT II, and TAT III (by Westcott).  (I built one of these at the time.)   March 1969 "Improved Transistor Throttle".  This covers the TAT IV (Wescott's)   April 1988 "The TAT V" by Eberhard A. Meinecke   I think the search capability for the DVD Model Railroader has problems.   I found searching online elsewhere that the issue of interest (for the TAT IV) was in the March 1969 issue.  So I looked at the MR DVD set I had downloaded to my computer and sure enough, the article was there and the title was "Improved Transistor Throttle".   Here are the results of some "AND" searches of title and keywords for MR's DVD offering.  The search performance is puzzline:   "improved transistor throttle" (nothing although it is the actual title) "improved transistor" (although it did find one article about headlights) "transistor throttle" (although it did find other articles on transistor throttles) "improved throttle" (found it) "Westcott" (found it but, of course, among many, many other articles)   If this is the quality of the search capability, it is going to be easier zeroing in by getting clues online from blogs and such.   Chuck Kinzer     ----- Original Message ----- From: Rick Jones To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2011 4:46 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Kalmbach Model Railroader DVD   On 12/27/2011 5:58 PM, Mike Sloane wrote: > If it was, I can't find "TAT 4" by searching the DVD's. If you can give > me a month and year, I would greatly appreciate it. I believe that it is properly titled the "TAT IV", not "TAT 4". -- Rick Jones "If a refugee is one who takes refuge, and a divorcee is one who's been divorced, what, then, does this imply about the New York Yankee?" -Arte Johnson, "Rowan & Martin's Laugh-In"

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17956	From: ckinzer@att.net	Date: 12/27/2011
Subject: Re: Kalmbach Model Railroader DVD

Just for "fun", I searched for "true action throttle" in full text, not just titles and keywords.   It produced this:   Jan 76, p34  Trade topics "Electronic Throttle" (by Heathkit.  Remember them?)   Oct 77, p112  "A conversation with Linn Westcott"   Jan 79, p112  "The Prototype Actcion Throttle: PAT-1"   Jun 79, p37  G.S.B. Rail Limited ad for "computing True Action TComput-TAT 7900"   Jul 79, p111  same   Aug 81, p93  "Electronics: The Cutting Edge" in "At the Throttle" column    Jan 84, p177  In timeline diagram of MR's first 50 years.   Nov 87, p139  "in "Symposioum on Electronics" column   Mar 88, p25  In "next month" promo on TAT V article   NOTE THAT ACTUAL ARTICLE IN APR 88 DID NOT COME UP (see further below)   Jan 94, p6  In timeline diagram of MR's 60 years   Apr 94,  "Build a Walkaround TAT V Throttle" article   I wondered why the Apr 88 article did not show up and went to it and found it said "True-Action Throttle" (with a hyphen).  The search did NOT see that unfortunately.   So..... A search for "true-action throttle" (with the hyphen) produced:   Feb 62, p60, in "Getting Closer to Realistic Performance" article (about the TAT, TAT II and TAT III)   Feb 63 in reader letter with photo of one he made   Dec 67 in Trackside Photos of one somebody made   Mar 70 in "Let's model the johnson bar" commentary   Nov 75 in "Dispatcher on the Sunset Valley"   Apr 88  "The TAT V"  (HERE IT IS BECAUSE HE USED THE HYPHEN)   May 09  Comment in Easy Yard Ladder Control" about things that had inspired the author.   Finally, when using the full text search the instances are NOT highlighted in yellow as they are for the title and keyword search.  This is very annoying when you want to see just how/where your search term(s) are used.   I will say this, however.  The chances of dredging something up from an old MR issue is still aided by having the 75 year collection loaded.  And if you just want to walk down memory lane issue by issue, it's fine.   Chuck Kinzer     ----- Original Message ----- From: ckinzer@... To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2011 5:06 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Kalmbach Model Railroader DVD   Yes.  It is "TAT IV" and TAT stands for "True Action Throttle".   It took me awhile searching, but here are the issues:   February 1962 "Getting Closer to Realistic Performance".  This includes the original TAT, TAT II, and TAT III (by Westcott).  (I built one of these at the time.)   March 1969 "Improved Transistor Throttle".  This covers the TAT IV (Wescott's)   April 1988 "The TAT V" by Eberhard A. Meinecke   I think the search capability for the DVD Model Railroader has problems.   I found searching online elsewhere that the issue of interest (for the TAT IV) was in the March 1969 issue.  So I looked at the MR DVD set I had downloaded to my computer and sure enough, the article was there and the title was "Improved Transistor Throttle".   Here are the results of some "AND" searches of title and keywords for MR's DVD offering.  The search performance is puzzline:   "improved transistor throttle" (nothing although it is the actual title) "improved transistor" (although it did find one article about headlights) "transistor throttle" (although it did find other articles on transistor throttles) "improved throttle" (found it) "Westcott" (found it but, of course, among many, many other articles)   If this is the quality of the search capability, it is going to be easier zeroing in by getting clues online from blogs and such.   Chuck Kinzer     ----- Original Message ----- From: Rick Jones To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2011 4:46 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Re: Kalmbach Model Railroader DVD   On 12/27/2011 5:58 PM, Mike Sloane wrote: > If it was, I can't find "TAT 4" by searching the DVD's. If you can give > me a month and year, I would greatly appreciate it. I believe that it is properly titled the "TAT IV", not "TAT 4". -- Rick Jones "If a refugee is one who takes refuge, and a divorcee is one who's been divorced, what, then, does this imply about the New York Yankee?" -Arte Johnson, "Rowan & Martin's Laugh-In"

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17957	From: John H	Date: 12/27/2011
Subject: Varney metal? caboose on eBay

Group, This is something I've neither seen or heard about. An all metal Varney caboose with embossed metal sides. I dunno but the sides look as if they could be embossed cardstock to me but I'm not the guy that has it in my hands. eBay item 200692565739 John Hagen

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17958	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 12/27/2011
Subject: Re: Varney metal? caboose on eBay

Yeah, I've got one. Wood floors and roof sections, metal sides nailed on. > Group, > > This is something I've neither seen or heard about. An all metal Varney caboose with embossed metal sides. I dunno but the sides look as if they could be embossed cardstock to me but I'm not the guy that has it in my hands. > > eBay item 200692565739 > > John Hagen >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17959	From: raul@wi.rr.com	Date: 12/27/2011
Subject: Re: Varney metal? caboose on eBay

- I have aquired two of the assembled Varney foil rib side caboose's. One is silver/aluminum the other is orange and black. Both need rehab the material used for glazing is in poor condition, yellowed and wrinkled. Not a bad looking caboose but the roof walks are folded embosed foil and not too convincing. Roger Aultman --- John H <sprinthag@...> wrote: ============= Group, This is something I've neither seen or heard about. An all metal Varney caboose with embossed metal sides. I dunno but the sides look as if they could be embossed cardstock to me but I'm not the guy that has it in my hands. eBay item 200692565739 John Hagen

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17960	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 12/27/2011
Subject: Re: Varney metal? caboose on eBay

Mine is not ribbed foil. I think it's brass, but been a while since I worked on it. Looks like an Athearn SP caboose, metal vertical bits, wood horizontal bits. Dave > - > I have aquired two of the assembled Varney foil rib side caboose's. One is silver/aluminum the other is orange and black. Both need rehab the material used for glazing is in poor condition, yellowed and wrinkled. Not a bad looking caboose but the roof walks are folded embosed foil and > not too convincing. Roger Aultman > > > > > > --- John H <sprinthag@...> wrote: > > ============= > Group, > > This is something I've neither seen or heard about. An all metal Varney caboose with embossed metal sides. I dunno but the sides look as if they could be embossed cardstock to me but I'm not the guy that has it in my hands. > > eBay item 200692565739 > > John Hagen >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17961	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 12/28/2011
Subject: Re: Varney metal? caboose on eBay

I'm going to have to look at mine. It's in the junque box because it is in pretty bad shape. I assumed it was card but maybe it is foil. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: <raul@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Cc: "John H" <sprinthag@...> Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2011 11:02 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Varney metal? caboose on eBay > > - > I have aquired two of the assembled Varney foil rib side caboose's. One > is silver/aluminum the other is orange and black. Both need rehab the > material used for glazing is in poor condition, yellowed and wrinkled. > Not a bad looking caboose but the roof walks are folded embosed foil and > not too convincing. Roger Aultman > > > > > > --- John H <sprinthag@...> wrote: > > ============= > Group, > > This is something I've neither seen or heard about. An all metal Varney > caboose with embossed metal sides. I dunno but the sides look as if they > could be embossed cardstock to me but I'm not the guy that has it in my > hands. > > eBay item 200692565739 > > John Hagen > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17962	From: Jay	Date: 12/28/2011
Subject: Re: Varney metal? caboose on eBay

Hi All, Just a quick post (from memory as I do not have my Varney Guide or models next to me right now) - that everybody is right on this one, as three different Varney models of two different prototypes which are being discussed! Varney produced both embossed card and embossed thin sheet metal (not foil laminated on card) versions of the "standard" (ATSF or SP ?) offset cupola steel caboose. Some of the embossed metsl ones were unpainted and some were factory painted "red" but without lettering. These date from before WW 2 thought the very early 1950's. The embossed detail on these two kits was very fine with almost scale sized rivets and both kits due to their complexity and modeling skill required, would be classed today as premium craftsman-type kits. Much close, precise work involved cutting out the embossed windows! I also do not believe that Varney's caboose kits or instuctions used pins or nails to affix any of their sides, though many other manufacturers did and many modelers, given the poor state of glues then, also added them. I will check my several examples, assembled and kit tonight to make sure of that fact, though. After moving to Chicago in the very early 1940's, Varney then added his kit for the Milwaukee type ribbed side bay window caboose and this is the one that the sides are embossed onto foil covered card. Dont have one of thse...yet, lol! Thugh not completely sure from memory if he also did this one in thin metal as well - have to check the book again tonite! Hope this helps. W. Jay W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > I'm going to have to look at mine. It's in the junque box because it is in > pretty bad shape. I assumed it was card but maybe it is foil. > > Don > > Don Dellmann > don.dellmann@... > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ > http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction > Owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <raul@...> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Cc: "John H" <sprinthag@...> > Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2011 11:02 PM > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Varney metal? caboose on eBay > > > > > > - > > I have aquired two of the assembled Varney foil rib side caboose's. One > > is silver/aluminum the other is orange and black. Both need rehab the > > material used for glazing is in poor condition, yellowed and wrinkled. > > Not a bad looking caboose but the roof walks are folded embosed foil and > > not too convincing. Roger Aultman > > > > > > > > > > > > --- John H <sprinthag@...> wrote: > > > > ============= > > Group, > > > > This is something I've neither seen or heard about. An all metal Varney > > caboose with embossed metal sides. I dunno but the sides look as if they > > could be embossed cardstock to me but I'm not the guy that has it in my > > hands. > > > > eBay item 200692565739 > > > > John Hagen > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17963	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 12/28/2011
Subject: :Looking for

On 12/28/2011 2:10 PM, Jim Heckard wrote: > > Hi, > > Trying to fill in a few missing pieces of my collection. 3 > different passenger cars. > > > 1- Laconia Old Time Sierra RR metal coach. Kit or assembled. > Better if NOT painted. Missed one on eBay > > > 2- Varney wood and celluloid observation P-88 "shorty" 60' in > C&NW yellow green sides. Still in kit for or assemble. IMPORTANT > THAT THE CELLULOID WRAPPER ( ONE PIECE ) IS NOT MISSING ANY PAINT > ESPECIALLY THE ROUNDED END. There is a kit on eBay now that if you > look real hard the paint is missing at the back and the underlying > gray is showing. I'm starting to wonder if everyone has this problem > after the number of years since made ( 1949-1951. I HAVE ALREADY > BOUGHT ONE ASSEMBLED KIT AND 3 MINT UNASSEMBLED KITS IN BOXES BUT EACH > ONE HAD THE PAINT PEELING OF THE ROUNDED END OF THE WRAPPER. It must > be a flaw that after time this pre rounded end did not hold on. > > 3- Varney pre war wood and celluloid sides in B&O colors. It is for > the Pullman Atlantis, full size 80' that is part of an 8 car set. I'm > missing this one car. Assembled or kit. > > > Contact me off site at jimheck@... if you have one or al. > and let me know what you would want for any of them. > > Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17964	From: Jay	Date: 12/28/2011
Subject: Re: Varney Caboose Model Versions, 1938-1950

Hi All, As promised this morning, here is a brief list (from Spanagel's Varney Trains published by Greenberg) of the two different types of cabooses made by Varney in five distinct versions: 1938-1940 - ATSF offset cupola steel caboose, printed brown paper sides with rivets printed in black ink, upper wuindows white above, gray below. 1940-1942 - based upon the same steel ATSF prototype, these two pre-war modeles have embossed red Bristol (card) sides, (C-1) or stamped thin brass sides (C-2). Here are links to the two page illustrated instructions on HO seeker - no side nails or pins were used in their construction as illustrated: http://hoseeker.com/varneyinstructionscar/varneyembossedcaboosepg1.jpg http://hoseeker.com/varneyinstructionscar/varneyembossedcaboosepg2.jpg 1942-1947 - based on the rib sided Milwaukee bay window caboose, these two models were manufactured with the embossed foil covered card sides, (C-3) or stamped thin aluminum sides, (C-4). 1946-1949 - the ATSF based embossed Bristol (card) sided kit returned as kit number (C-1) as did a thin metal stamped version, but thistime in thin aluminum, again reusing the (C-2) number! In 1950, Varney introduced two new caboiose models,  its famous center cupola, injection molded body Northeast style caboose which continued in production, (though modified in several phases), for about 50 years through the Life Like ownership. The neat injection molded bay window caboose also began production in late 1950 as well.  I have two partially constructed red Bristol sided models and a set of the painted aluminum sides and after dinner, going to get them out! W. Jay W.  --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Jay" <the_plainsman@...> wrote: > > Hi All, Just a quick post (from memory as I do not have my Varney Guide or models next to me right now) - that everybody is right on this one, as three different Varney models of two different prototypes which are being discussed! Varney produced both embossed card and embossed thin sheet metal (not foil laminated on card) versions of the "standard" (ATSF or SP ?) offset cupola steel caboose. Some of the embossed metsl ones were unpainted and some were factory painted "red" but without lettering. These date from before WW 2 thought the very early 1950's. > > The embossed detail on these two kits was very fine with almost scale sized rivets and both kits due to their complexity and modeling skill required, would be classed today as premium craftsman-type kits. Much close, precise work involved cutting out the embossed windows! I also do not believe that Varney's caboose kits or instuctions used pins or nails to affix any of their sides, though many other manufacturers did and many modelers, given the poor state of glues then, also added them. I will check my several examples, assembled and kit tonight to make sure of that fact, though. > > After moving to Chicago in the very early 1940's, Varney then added his kit for the Milwaukee type ribbed side bay window caboose and this is the one that the sides are embossed onto foil covered card. Dont have one of thse...yet, lol! Thugh not completely sure from memory if he also did this one in thin metal as well - have to check the book again tonite! Hope this helps. W. Jay W. > > --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" don.dellmann@ wrote: > > > > I'm going to have to look at mine. It's in the junque box because it is in > > pretty bad shape. I assumed it was card but maybe it is foil. > > > > Don > > > > Don Dellmann > > don.dellmann@ > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ > > http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction > > Owner > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: raul@ > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > Cc: "John H" sprinthag@ > > Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2011 11:02 PM > > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Varney metal? caboose on eBay > > > > > > > > > > - > > > I have aquired two of the assembled Varney foil rib side caboose's. One > > > is silver/aluminum the other is orange and black. Both need rehab the > > > material used for glazing is in poor condition, yellowed and wrinkled. > > > Not a bad looking caboose but the roof walks are folded embosed foil and > > > not too convincing. Roger Aultman > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- John H sprinthag@ wrote: > > > > > > ============= > > > Group, > > > > > > This is something I've neither seen or heard about. An all metal Varney > > > caboose with embossed metal sides. I dunno but the sides look as if they > > > could be embossed cardstock to me but I'm not the guy that has it in my > > > hands. > > > > > > eBay item 200692565739 > > > > > > John Hagen > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17965	From: tieplatejunction	Date: 12/28/2011
Subject: Mantua Pacific

After cleaning all contact points, as well as a clean and lube, it runs but rather slowly. I have it hooked up to an old Hammant and Morgan throttle that pushes good juice. After only a few laps, it all but stalled, eventually creeping around enough for me to take it off the track. No noticeable burn smell or heat...any thoughts? Thanks in advance...

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17966	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 12/28/2011
Subject: Re: Mantua Pacific

Is this the earlier version with the rubber tube drive shaft? I have seen some that the rubber is in great shape, others where the rubber is deteriorated beyond use. I did have one Mantua that had binding valve gear. Reminds me of what you describe, as mine would sometimes be fine, but sometimes run slow as a result of the binding. On the whole my Mantuas are pretty dependable workhorses. -Steve Neubaum --- On Wed, 12/28/11, tieplatejunction <tieplatejunction@...> wrote: From: tieplatejunction <tieplatejunction@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Mantua Pacific To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, December 28, 2011, 6:18 PM   After cleaning all contact points, as well as a clean and lube, it runs but rather slowly. I have it hooked up to an old Hammant and Morgan throttle that pushes good juice. After only a few laps, it all but stalled, eventually creeping around enough for me to take it off the track. No noticeable burn smell or heat...any thoughts? Thanks in advance...

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17967	From: Donald R. Staton	Date: 12/28/2011
Subject: Re: Mantua Pacific

Which motor and drive?  Gearbox or no gearbox? Don Staton in VA. ----------------------------------------------------- On 12/28/2011 7:18 PM, tieplatejunction wrote:   After cleaning all contact points, as well as a clean and lube, it runs but rather slowly. I have it hooked up to an old Hammant and Morgan throttle that pushes good juice. After only a few laps, it all but stalled, eventually creeping around enough for me to take it off the track. No noticeable burn smell or heat...any thoughts? Thanks in advance...

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17968	From: Robert Colliflower	Date: 12/29/2011
Subject: Re: Mantua Pacific

Mine has the open worm and gear with no rubber coupling.  It runs freely on the bench, bogging down only under load on the rails.  Thanks again for all the help...

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17970	From: David J. Starr	Date: 12/29/2011
Subject: Re: Mantua Pacific

On 12/29/2011 7:24 AM, Robert Colliflower wrote: > > > Mine has the open worm and gear with no rubber coupling. It runs freely > on the bench, bogging down only under load on the rails. Thanks again > for all the help... > I have one of those. Runs good for me. Have you checked worm gear clearance, worm to spur gear? Too loose and the worm will skip teeth under load. Too tight and you get excessive friction. Clearance can only be adjusted by putting shims under the motor. -- David J. Starr Blog: http://www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17971	From: Donald R. Staton	Date: 12/29/2011
Subject: Re: Mantua Pacific

Disconnect loco from tender.  Remove boiler from frame.  Have a screw long enough to hold the cylinders in place on the frame without the boiler. When cylinder saddle is secure, remove the motor.  Check the mechanism by turning the wheels by hand to see if there are any binds.  If no binds then check the motor.  You really need meters to check the current draw in amps and volts DC. Put one drop of lube oil on each motor bearing.  Make sure the commutator ( the area where the brushes ride on the motor shaft)is clean and bright with no oil on it.  check the motor for operation first at slow speed and then at top speed allowing it to run for a few minutes to see if it heats up.  If it gets too hot to hold the magnet is weak and the reason why the motor slows and the loco creeps after a while running. If you find no problems, make sure all bearings are lubed and the gear is lubed with a good gear grease. Put a small drop of oil on each crank pin on the wheels and valve gear after reassembly. If the loco was not well lubed recently dry bearings on the axles and or motor can cause slowing after they heat up from friction. Don Staton in VA. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On 12/29/2011 7:24 AM, Robert Colliflower wrote:   Mine has the open worm and gear with no rubber coupling.  It runs freely on the bench, bogging down only under load on the rails.  Thanks again for all the help...

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17972	From: Jay	Date: 12/29/2011
Subject: New Railmaster Diecast Kit Roads & Road Numbers

Hi All and especially Ray F. W., For those unfamiliar with it, Railmaster was one of those short lived freight car manufacturers of pressure die cast zamac freight cars circa 1950, featuring mostly open top cars such as hoppers and gons.  Ray F.W. has a file here on our Vintage HO website of Railmaster kits and also contains an informative history of the line.  In my opinion, quality was equal to the Ulrich line, though as Ray notes,  assembly a bit more difficult.  In fact, my discovery of an assembled B&O 65' mill gon at a local train show about 10 years ago led me to first think it was an older Ulrich model.   Around the same time that I found that B&O mill gon, I signed up for eBay and began searching for vintage models lettered for my favorite roads, Erie and DL&W, and found boxed Railmaster kits for those long 65' mill gons lettered for both roads!  The Erie kit's sides were in perfect shape and still cello wrapped, but the D&LW's sides had a huge warp in them and additionally, one side was broken in two - I have yet to find another.   My list below contains the missing road numbers for those Erie and DL&W sides as they are not yet on the list as posted. As Ray has written, the Railmaster kits are not that easy to find.  A few weeks ago, I found eBay listings for groups of Railmaster sides, (though not identified as such), most still packed in their original cellophane envelopes! I purchased them in three seperate lots for a reasdonable sum just under $2 per pair.  Another two pairs of sides escaped in another lot with some pairs of printed card sides by Mantua, etc. - did any of you get them? [Why just the sides and not the whole kits?  I can only speculate that at one time, Railmaster may have sold their kits by shipping boxed basic kits plus a supply of different sides to be added by the hobby shop owner  at time of purchase, cutting down on huge dealer inventories of whole kits,  (in the same manner as early Mantua kits were sold).  My reason for the speculation is that while my Erie Railmaster  Erie 65' mill gon kit label is identified as containing an Erie mill gon kit, my DL&W kit label says only "Basic Kit" - not undecorated if that were the case. But this just a working theory on my part for now.] The extra fun part of buying these sides is finding out some "new" information needed for the master list, such as road numbers and a few new road discoveries as well.   I have listed all the sides that I have purchased and highlighted the new infomation in blue type. Ray -  since you compiled the original list, one of the "new" road numbers, for a UP ribbed hopper was found in duplicate, and if you would like it, let me know your mailing address off list and I will send it right out to you! I am attaching one of the photos of six or the sides from the eBay listing as no working quality digital camera here yet, (though closer with a nice gift certificate recently received, lol!). W. Jay W.     Railmaster         65' mill gon road reporting marks color, lettering status   5 B&O     assembled assembled 7 Western Maryland WM 5x531 wh., red let. assembled assembled ? ?     assembled assembled Railmaster road reporting marks color, lettering kit or assemb.   65' mill gon           6 Lackawanna DL&W 69160 blk., wt. let. kit no wrap 8 Erie ERIE 15000 blk., wt. let. kit cello wrap rib side hopper           2 Union Pacific UP 32810 b.c. red, wt. let. sides only cello wrap 2 Union Pacific UP 32810 b.c. red, wt. let. sides only cello wrap torn 4 Burlington CB&Q 192500 b.c. red, wt. let. sides only cello wrap 5 Birmingham Southern BS 1910 blk., wt. let. sides only cello wrap 10 Reading RDG 32080 blk,wt. let, red herld. sides only cello wrap ? Missouri Pacific MP 58670 blk., wt. let. sides only cello wrap panel hopper           1 undecorated unpainted   sides only no wrap 2 Frisco SL-SF 87311 blk., wt. let. sides only cello wrap 5 Wabash WAB 36110 blk., wt. let. sides only cello wrap ? Louisville & Nashville L&N 45206 b.c. red, wt. let. sides only cello wrap ? Pennsylvania PRR 250068 b.c. red, wt. let. sides only cello wrap comp. hopper           2 Nickle Plate NKP 31290 blk., wt. let. sides only cello wrap ? Clinchfield CRR 51633 blk., wt. let. sides only cello wrap 40' steel gon.           2 Texas & Pacific T&P 17899 blk., wt. let. sides only cello wrap 3 Chicago North Western CNW 70501 b.c. red, wt. let. sides only no wrap ? Katy M-K-T 43001 b.c. red, wt. let. sides only cello wrap   photo credit, Dick Waite

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17973	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 12/29/2011
Subject: Re: Mantua Pacific

Might be the motor is no longer any good.  To determine that, set up some wiring directly to the motor and touch those wires to the rails.  If it bogs down, it is the motor, if it runs ok, then likely you have an electrical conductivity problem, most likely in the tender trucks.  That is where I always have conductivity problems on my Mantua Pacific.  You can also check that by pushing down on the tender and moving it back and forth and wiggle it side to side.  If it helps, the problem is teh tender trucks. Rergards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: tieplatejunction@... Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2011 04:24:20 -0800 Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Mantua Pacific   Mine has the open worm and gear with no rubber coupling.  It runs freely on the bench, bogging down only under load on the rails.  Thanks again for all the help...

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17974	From: Sean Naylor	Date: 12/29/2011
Subject: Re: Mantua Pacific

Sounds like it could be a weak magnet to me.   Sean "If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti! From: Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> To: vintageho@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2011 11:12 AM Subject: RE: [vintageHO] Re: Mantua Pacific   Might be the motor is no longer any good.  To determine that, set up some wiring directly to the motor and touch those wires to the rails.  If it bogs down, it is the motor, if it runs ok, then likely you have an electrical conductivity problem, most likely in the tender trucks.  That is where I always have conductivity problems on my Mantua Pacific.  You can also check that by pushing down on the tender and moving it back and forth and wiggle it side to side.  If it helps, the problem is teh tender trucks. Rergards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: tieplatejunction@... Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2011 04:24:20 -0800 Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Mantua Pacific   Mine has the open worm and gear with no rubber coupling.  It runs freely on the bench, bogging down only under load on the rails.  Thanks again for all the help...

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17975	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 12/29/2011
Subject: Hackers

Someone, namely MichaelH_at_embracehomeloans_dot_com, has signed up and sent out a SPAM e-mail this morning, it doth appear. I sent the data to our fearless leader. Dave

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17976	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 12/29/2011
Subject: Re: Hackers

That, and at 7:27 AM today, an email came to Vintage HO group, from Don Dellman, but it was a spam message. Apparently Don's email has been comprimised. @Don, do a virus and malware scan on your machine for any keyloggers, and then change your passwords. This sort of problem has been spreading like wildfire over the past year. -Steve Neubaum --- On Thu, 12/29/11, trainsnwrcs <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: From: trainsnwrcs <idioticyahoo@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Hackers To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, December 29, 2011, 1:39 PM   Someone, namely MichaelH_at_embracehomeloans_dot_com, has signed up and sent out a SPAM e-mail this morning, it doth appear. I sent the data to our fearless leader. Dave

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17977	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 12/29/2011
Subject: Re: Hackers

It's already been done. The problem is, these things usually don't even come from your computer. It could be from anywhere that has access to your email address.This stuff happens through any number of sources. That's one reason I'm so down on the "social media" like Facebook, they're prime sources for where these programs harvest the email addresses. The worst was Grouply, thank goodness they seem to be dying out. For a time it was so bad that if I found out anybody on any of my lists was signed up with them they were dropped immediately. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephen Neubaum" <computersystemrebuild@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2011 1:59 PM Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Hackers That, and at 7:27 AM today, an email came to Vintage HO group, from Don Dellman, but it was a spam message. Apparently Don's email has been comprimised. @Don, do a virus and malware scan on your machine for any keyloggers, and then change your passwords. This sort of problem has been spreading like wildfire over the past year. -Steve Neubaum --- On Thu, 12/29/11, trainsnwrcs <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: From: trainsnwrcs <idioticyahoo@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Hackers To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, December 29, 2011, 1:39 PM Someone, namely MichaelH_at_embracehomeloans_dot_com, has signed up and sent out a SPAM e-mail this morning, it doth appear. I sent the data to our fearless leader. Dave

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17978	From: John Barlow	Date: 12/29/2011
Subject: Re: Hackers

Also change your security questions. And do not use just simple alphabetics or simple numbers. Mix them up in your password.   John --- On Thu, 12/29/11, Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> wrote: From: Stephen Neubaum <computersystemrebuild@...> Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Hackers To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, December 29, 2011, 12:59 PM   That, and at 7:27 AM today, an email came to Vintage HO group, from Don Dellman, but it was a spam message. Apparently Don's email has been comprimised. @Don, do a virus and malware scan on your machine for any keyloggers, and then change your passwords. This sort of problem has been spreading like wildfire over the past year. -Steve Neubaum --- On Thu, 12/29/11, trainsnwrcs <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: From: trainsnwrcs <idioticyahoo@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Hackers To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, December 29, 2011, 1:39 PM   Someone, namely MichaelH_at_embracehomeloans_dot_com, has signed up and sent out a SPAM e-mail this morning, it doth appear. I sent the data to our fearless leader. Dave

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17979	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 12/29/2011
Subject: Re: Hackers

I have several e-mail addresses, so I know where the stuff is originating. Yahoogroups uses a special e-mail address. I know someone who does the same thing, and started getting huge amounts of SPAM from his e-mail used for Kalmbach. So, either Clambake was hacked, or they sold the list of e-mails... > It's already been done. The problem is, these things usually don't even > come from your computer. It could be from anywhere that has access to your > email address.This stuff happens through any number of sources. That's one > reason I'm so down on the "social media" like Facebook, they're prime > sources for where these programs harvest the email addresses. The worst was > Grouply, thank goodness they seem to be dying out. For a time it was so bad > that if I found out anybody on any of my lists was signed up with them they > were dropped immediately. > > Don > > Don Dellmann > don.dellmann@... > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ > http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction > Owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Stephen Neubaum" <computersystemrebuild@...> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2011 1:59 PM > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Hackers > > > That, and at 7:27 AM today, an email came to Vintage HO group, from Don > Dellman, but it was a spam message. Apparently Don's email has been > comprimised. > > @Don, do a virus and malware scan on your machine for any keyloggers, and > then change your passwords. > > This sort of problem has been spreading like wildfire over the past year. > > -Steve Neubaum > > --- On Thu, 12/29/11, trainsnwrcs <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: > > From: trainsnwrcs <idioticyahoo@...> > Subject: [vintageHO] Hackers > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Date: Thursday, December 29, 2011, 1:39 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Someone, namely MichaelH_at_embracehomeloans_dot_com, has signed up > and sent out a SPAM e-mail this morning, it doth appear. > > I sent the data to our fearless leader. > > Dave >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17980	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 12/29/2011
Subject: Re: Hackers

Betting Kalmbach was hacked. Some years ago I worked in the IT department for the Waukegan Police. Everyone's logins to the police network, and logins to various online crimefighting tools, was stored on a server. The security on the server was pretty poor. This meant a hacker could get nearly unlimited access to the network and all police resources, merely by hacking ONE password. I sat down with my boss in that department, as well as the Chief, and showed them how a hacker could get into the server in less than 10 minutes, then proceeded to demonstrate. I would imagine that Kalmbach's server stores email addresses, and someone got into it. -Steve Neubaum --- On Thu, 12/29/11, trainsnwrcs <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: From: trainsnwrcs <idioticyahoo@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Hackers To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, December 29, 2011, 2:19 PM   I have several e-mail addresses, so I know where the stuff is originating. Yahoogroups uses a special e-mail address. I know someone who does the same thing, and started getting huge amounts of SPAM from his e-mail used for Kalmbach. So, either Clambake was hacked, or they sold the list of e-mails... > It's already been done. The problem is, these things usually don't even > come from your computer. It could be from anywhere that has access to your > email address.This stuff happens through any number of sources. That's one > reason I'm so down on the "social media" like Facebook, they're prime > sources for where these programs harvest the email addresses. The worst was > Grouply, thank goodness they seem to be dying out. For a time it was so bad > that if I found out anybody on any of my lists was signed up with them they > were dropped immediately. > > Don > > Don Dellmann > don.dellmann@... > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ > http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction > Owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Stephen Neubaum" <computersystemrebuild@...> > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2011 1:59 PM > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Hackers > > > That, and at 7:27 AM today, an email came to Vintage HO group, from Don > Dellman, but it was a spam message. Apparently Don's email has been > comprimised. > > @Don, do a virus and malware scan on your machine for any keyloggers, and > then change your passwords. > > This sort of problem has been spreading like wildfire over the past year. > > -Steve Neubaum > > --- On Thu, 12/29/11, trainsnwrcs <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: > > From: trainsnwrcs <idioticyahoo@...> > Subject: [vintageHO] Hackers > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Date: Thursday, December 29, 2011, 1:39 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Someone, namely MichaelH_at_embracehomeloans_dot_com, has signed up > and sent out a SPAM e-mail this morning, it doth appear. > > I sent the data to our fearless leader. > > Dave >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17981	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 12/29/2011
Subject: Re: Hackers

I always report SPAM to the appropriate abuse address found on ARIN. Got a bounceback, the address yahoo lists on ARIN no longer works. Left a note on their blog. Morons. > > Betting Kalmbach was hacked. > > Some years ago I worked in the IT department for the Waukegan Police. Everyone's logins to the police network, and logins to various online crimefighting tools, was stored on a server. The security on the server was pretty poor. This meant a hacker could get nearly unlimited access to the network and all police resources, merely by hacking ONE password. > > I sat down with my boss in that department, as well as the Chief, and showed them how a hacker could get into the server in less than 10 minutes, then proceeded to demonstrate. > > I would imagine that Kalmbach's server stores email addresses, and someone got into it. > > -Steve Neubaum > > --- On Thu, 12/29/11, trainsnwrcs <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: > > From: trainsnwrcs <idioticyahoo@...> > Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Hackers > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > Date: Thursday, December 29, 2011, 2:19 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >   > > > > > > > > > > I have several e-mail addresses, so I know where the stuff is originating. Yahoogroups uses a special e-mail address. I know someone who does the same thing, and started getting huge amounts of SPAM from his e-mail used for Kalmbach. So, either Clambake was hacked, or they sold the list of e-mails... > > > > > It's already been done. The problem is, these things usually don't even > > > come from your computer. It could be from anywhere that has access to your > > > email address.This stuff happens through any number of sources. That's one > > > reason I'm so down on the "social media" like Facebook, they're prime > > > sources for where these programs harvest the email addresses. The worst was > > > Grouply, thank goodness they seem to be dying out. For a time it was so bad > > > that if I found out anybody on any of my lists was signed up with them they > > > were dropped immediately. > > > > > > Don > > > > > > Don Dellmann > > > don.dellmann@ > > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ > > > http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction > > > Owner > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Stephen Neubaum" <computersystemrebuild@> > > > To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2011 1:59 PM > > > Subject: Re: [vintageHO] Hackers > > > > > > > > > That, and at 7:27 AM today, an email came to Vintage HO group, from Don > > > Dellman, but it was a spam message. Apparently Don's email has been > > > comprimised. > > > > > > @Don, do a virus and malware scan on your machine for any keyloggers, and > > > then change your passwords. > > > > > > This sort of problem has been spreading like wildfire over the past year. > > > > > > -Steve Neubaum > > > > > > --- On Thu, 12/29/11, trainsnwrcs <idioticyahoo@> wrote: > > > > > > From: trainsnwrcs <idioticyahoo@> > > > Subject: [vintageHO] Hackers > > > To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com > > > Date: Thursday, December 29, 2011, 1:39 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Someone, namely MichaelH_at_embracehomeloans_dot_com, has signed up > > > and sent out a SPAM e-mail this morning, it doth appear. > > > > > > I sent the data to our fearless leader. > > > > > > Dave > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17982	From: Jay	Date: 12/29/2011
Subject: Re: New Railmaster Diecast Kit Roads & Road Numbers

Hi Ray F.W. and All, I rechecked your article and list in the files section again right now and discovered that your list is published in two sections (early and later production) and about half of the dozen or so "new" roadnames or roadnumbers I reported from the sides collecton are on the secomd part of your list! However the other half are still new finds, so still somewhat exciting to discover, lol! W. Jay W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Jay" <the_plainsman@...> wrote: > > > Hi All and especially Ray F. W., > > For those unfamiliar with it, Railmaster was one of those short lived > freight car manufacturers of pressure die cast zamac freight cars circa > 1950, featuring mostly open top cars such as hoppers and gons. Ray F.W. > has a file here on our Vintage HO website of Railmaster kits and also > contains an informative history of the line. In my opinion, quality was > equal to the Ulrich line, though as Ray notes, assembly a bit more > difficult. In fact, my discovery of an assembled B&O 65' mill gon at a > local train show about 10 years ago led me to first think it was an > older Ulrich model. > > Around the same time that I found that B&O mill gon, I signed up for > eBay and began searching for vintage models lettered for my favorite > roads, Erie and DL&W, and found boxed Railmaster kits for those long 65' > mill gons lettered for both roads! The Erie kit's sides were in perfect > shape and still cello wrapped, but the D&LW's sides had a huge warp in > them and additionally, one side was broken in two - I have yet to find > another. My list below contains the missing road numbers for those > Erie and DL&W sides as they are not yet on the list as posted. > > As Ray has written, the Railmaster kits are not that easy to find. A > few weeks ago, I found eBay listings for groups of Railmaster sides, > (though not identified as such), most still packed in their original > cellophane envelopes! I purchased them in three seperate lots for a > reasdonable sum just under $2 per pair. Another two pairs of sides > escaped in another lot with some pairs of printed card sides by Mantua, > etc. - did any of you get them? > > [Why just the sides and not the whole kits? I can only speculate that > at one time, Railmaster may have sold their kits by shipping boxed basic > kits plus a supply of different sides to be added by the hobby shop > owner at time of purchase, cutting down on huge dealer inventories of > whole kits, (in the same manner as early Mantua kits were sold). My > reason for the speculation is that while my Erie Railmaster Erie 65' > mill gon kit label is identified as containing an Erie mill gon kit, my > DL&W kit label says only "Basic Kit" - not undecorated if that were the > case. But this just a working theory on my part for now.] > > The extra fun part of buying these sides is finding out some "new" > information needed for the master list, such as road numbers and a few > new road discoveries as well. I have listed all the sides that I have > purchased and highlighted the new infomation in blue type. > > Ray - since you compiled the original list, one of the "new" road > numbers, for a UP ribbed hopper was found in duplicate, and if you would > like it, let me know your mailing address off list and I will send it > right out to you! > > I am attaching one of the photos of six or the sides from the eBay > listing as no working quality digital camera here yet, (though closer > with a nice gift certificate recently received, lol!). > > W. Jay W. > > Railmaster 65' mill gon road reporting marks color, > lettering status 5 B&O assembled assembled 7 Western Maryland WM > 5x531 wh., red let. assembled assembled ? ? assembled assembled > Railmaster road reporting marks color, lettering kit or assemb. 65' > mill gon 6 Lackawanna DL&W 69160 blk., wt. let. kit no wrap > 8 Erie ERIE 15000 blk., wt. let. kit cello wrap rib side hopper > 2 Union Pacific UP 32810 b.c. red, wt. let. sides only cello wrap 2 > Union Pacific UP 32810 b.c. red, wt. let. sides only cello wrap torn 4 > Burlington CB&Q 192500 b.c. red, wt. let. sides only cello wrap 5 > Birmingham Southern BS 1910 blk., wt. let. sides only cello wrap 10 > Reading RDG 32080 blk,wt. let, red herld. sides only cello wrap ? > Missouri Pacific MP 58670 blk., wt. let. sides only cello wrap panel > hopper 1 undecorated unpainted sides only no wrap 2 > Frisco SL-SF 87311 blk., wt. let. sides only cello wrap 5 Wabash WAB > 36110 blk., wt. let. sides only cello wrap ? Louisville & Nashville > L&N 45206 b.c. red, wt. let. sides only cello wrap ? Pennsylvania PRR > 250068 b.c. red, wt. let. sides only cello wrap comp. hopper > 2 Nickle Plate NKP 31290 blk., wt. let. sides only cello wrap ? > Clinchfield CRR 51633 blk., wt. let. sides only cello wrap 40' steel > gon. 2 Texas & Pacific T&P 17899 blk., wt. let. sides only > cello wrap 3 Chicago North Western CNW 70501 b.c. red, wt. let. sides > only no wrap ? Katy M-K-T 43001 b.c. red, wt. let. sides only cello > wrap > > > > [http://i.ebayimg.com/t/Lot-six-pair-metal-hopper-sides-b-/00/s/NTI1WDcw\ > MA==/$(KGrHqF,!o8E63YcC(sRBO1YQHvOUQ~~60_12.JPG] > photo credit, Dick Waite >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17983	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/29/2011
Subject: Re: New Railmaster Diecast Kit Roads & Road Numbers

Hi W. Jay W., When I drew up that file on Railmaster, I probably still had a lot of them packed away in the attic -- as I've mentioned here with other stuff not at my immediate disposal. I'm not going up to that file right now, but I see by your message that I must not have completed the car side numbers for this manufacturer. Yes, your Erie (15000) and Lackawanna (69160) 65' Mill Gons match my kits' numbers of the same roadnames. As you state that the numbers you put in blue is all "new" information, I guess I didn't follow through with noting this info in the file even though I have them all except for a few; didn't realize they were missing from the file until now. I'll check out the number for your WM 65' Mill Gon, which I see you're unsure of, and I'll let you know as soon as I dig it out. Might even have that info in the article I wrote on this manufacturer, in the HO SC&H SIG "Reporter" magazine -- I'll have to check. Looks like you really lucked out with those car sides. I saw that eBay ad, and like you said, it said nothing about any Railmaster sides. I have cardboard Mantua and Champion, etc. sides coming out of my ears, so I never investigated that ad. Those 40' Hi-Side gondola sides were especially great finds -- congrats. I have the UP Ribbed-Side hopper with white lettering, but I'll check it out further as I notice I have a mark after that listing on my sheet which could indicate less than mint condition. If this is what I find after checking it out, I'll let you know; many thanks. BTW, there's also another UP Ribbed-Hopper with yellow lettering (might have indicated this in the file, I don't remember). Ray F. W. </HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17984	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/29/2011
Subject: Re: New Railmaster Diecast Kit Roads & Road Numbers

Hi W. Jay W., Yes, "The Reporting Mark" (HO SC&H SIG) had the info I wrote back then. So much easier to find than digging through stored cartons of kit boxes to find it. Your WM 65' Mill Gon is 50531. As you suspected, these Railmaster sides were available as separate pairs, aside from being included with the kits. The Flat Car sides were 50 cents a pair and for all others cars, they were 50 cents a pair. Ray F. W. </HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17985	From: erieberk@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/29/2011
Subject: Re: New Railmaster Diecast Kit Roads & Road Numbers

Should have read . . . . For all other cars, the sides were 60 (SIXTY) cents a pair. Ray F. W.</HTML>

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17986	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 12/30/2011
Subject: Theodore Picard 1948 Obituary

All, Doing a Google search for Picard Novelty Co yielded this article through Google's news archives: http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=fx8iAAAAIBAJ&sjid=tnEFAAAAIBAJ&pg=5971%2C6889673 Look to the right of the highlighted area. Shows the obituary for Theodore Picard, of Picard Novelty Co. Even mentions his company. The death date of June 1948 is roughly the period that Picard closed up. The article mentions a long illness. -Steve Neubaum

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17987	From: Robert Colliflower	Date: 12/30/2011
Subject: Re: Mantua Pacific

Thanks for all the suggestions guys.  I've done everything pointed out thus far and found that is is the connection between the track thru the tender on to the motor.  Direct hook ups show a strong motor so my next project will be to improve current flow from the rails to the motor thru the tender.  I've polished the brass wheels, bearing points and commutator with a Dremel, this hasn't helped in the tender so I'll need a more direct connection.  Thanks again for all the help...

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17988	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 12/30/2011
Subject: Re: Mantua Pacific

Dear Bob, Not uncommon on vintage Mantua, kind of shares the spotlight with wobbly drivers; especially on units built during the changeover times for the production department. Since you indicate a strong motor and free moving wheels and gearing you might consider the following. I have found that the easiest solution is to install a Tomar pickup slider on the tender trucks, solder a fine wire to the pickup and feed it through a small hole drilled near the truck mounting screw, splice the wires from the front and rear truck together to a black insulated flexable wire that leads directly to the motor brush. I glue this wire to the underside of the drawbar and then feed it through the floor of the cab to the brush. This give me a direct pathway from the left rail to the motor brush. The right rail is connected through the drivers to the other brush. In severe cases I have used a Tomar slider shoe from the right rail to the motor also. The Tomar loco shoes are generally packed 4 to the pack. If you want to insulate the Tomar slider from the frame of the loco or tender simply connect your wires to the wiper befor mounting and then use non-conducting epoxy to mount the slider instead of a screw. Jake Bechtel Gadsden, AL On 12/30/11, Robert Colliflower <tieplatejunction@...> wrote: > Thanks for all the suggestions guys.  I've done everything pointed out thus > far and found that is is the connection between the track thru the tender on > to the motor.  Direct hook ups show a strong motor so my next project will > be to improve current flow from the rails to the motor thru the tender. > I've polished the brass wheels, bearing points and commutator with a Dremel, > this hasn't helped in the tender so I'll need a more direct connection. > Thanks again for all the help... >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17989	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 12/30/2011
Subject: Re: Mantua Pacific

Hi All; I haven't seen a complaint like this for some time and it took a little while to shake the cobwebs loose. During my years as a "Authorized Repair" for Tyco/Mantua I came accross this several times where the loco began to slow down after a little running. The problem wasn't restricted to Mantua - I actually found it more commonly in Brass from Japan. My final diagnosis came down to a break down of the insulating coating on the wire used to wind the armature. It occurred in both the PM-1 and MG series motors so I would guess that the problem was the Varnish used in original manufacture. The quick answer is to replace the motor. Bench testing the motor is useless since the problem only recurrs when the motor is under load. Fortunately there are millions of Mantua motors floating around and mounting a modern can motor is a piece of cake on the units with a gearbox. I actually prefer to use the NWSL ujoint drive shaft kits for these models vs the flex tube setup. If you don't have the gearbox unit my best suggestion is to install a gear box. Here again NWSL has some great solutions. They offer gearing that maintains the original ratios and also one that reduces the gearing to more prototypical speeds and allows the motor to operate at a higher speed which helps it runn cooler and more efficiently. Jake Bechttel Gadsden, AL On 12/28/11, tieplatejunction <tieplatejunction@...> wrote: > After cleaning all contact points, as well as a clean and lube, it runs but > rather slowly. I have it hooked up to an old Hammant and Morgan throttle > that pushes good juice. After only a few laps, it all but stalled, > eventually creeping around enough for me to take it off the track. No > noticeable burn smell or heat...any thoughts? Thanks in advance... > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17990	From: Jay	Date: 12/30/2011
Subject: Re: New Railmaster Diecast Kit Roads & Road Numbers

Hi Ray F.W. & All, Thank you for the additional information and WM number confirmation. As luck would have it, this past Monday AM, my standing eBay search for Railmaster produced an uncommonly reasonably priced group of three diecast kits which arrived a few minutes ago, including two by Railmaster: the B&O Mill Gon, road number 450200 and a PRR Ribbed side hopper r/n 220300. Both kit boxes are pristine, even to not showing any evidence of any label originally Scotch taped to either end. Both also contained early packaged Athearn spring trucks and not Railmaster's own well named "Dyna-Glide" trucks. While the B&O kit is in great shape - the decorated sides wrapped not in cello, but in a kraft-type paper rubber stamped B&O; the PRR hopper sides are in a cello wrapper but are badly warped and the metal even blistering under the paint, though the rest of the Zamac castings are fine. I'm especially glad I have those spare sides now! Its too bad Railmaster had a short run of about two years. I remember reading MR's Trade Topics review published about 1949 and they were rather blase about the line, chosing instead to criticize Railmaster for using a catchy name for their smooth running "Dyna-Glide" trucks! W. Jay W. --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, erieberk@... wrote: > > Hi W. Jay W., > > Yes, "The Reporting Mark" (HO SC&H SIG) had the info I wrote back then. So > much easier to find than digging through stored cartons of kit boxes to > find it. Your WM 65' Mill Gon is 50531. > > As you suspected, these Railmaster sides were available as separate pairs, > aside from being included with the kits. The Flat Car sides were 50 cents a > pair and for all others cars, they were 50 cents a pair. > > Ray F. W. > > </HTML> >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17991	From: MikeS	Date: 12/30/2011
Subject: Lionel Super "O" Trackage

Looking for Lionel Super "O" Trackage. All items and all quantities. Please contact me off-line at: hspanier@... The History of Lionel Super "O" Track http://www.tcaetrain.org/articles/operating/supero/index.html A Happy & Healthy 2012 to All............ Very best, Mike Spanier

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17992	From: Victor Bitleris	Date: 12/30/2011
Subject: Re: Mantua Pacific

One thing I found on the Pacific is the path via the trucks and tender frame bolsters gets bad.  Clean that up really good and it will work great for about an hour or so.  :o)  Actually maybe longer, but this has always been a week spot.  Someone suggested Tomar sliders and they will help.  I personally would make wipers to wipe the axle and solder wires directly to the wipers, then connect the wires directly to the wire going to the motor.  This would bypass the very poor tender truck path.  The wipers can be screwed directly to truck frames or some other means may be found to securely mount the wipers to the truck frames. Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com From: tieplatejunction@... Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2011 05:27:08 -0800 Subject: [vintageHO] Re: Mantua Pacific   Thanks for all the suggestions guys.  I've done everything pointed out thus far and found that is is the connection between the track thru the tender on to the motor.  Direct hook ups show a strong motor so my next project will be to improve current flow from the rails to the motor thru the tender.  I've polished the brass wheels, bearing points and commutator with a Dremel, this hasn't helped in the tender so I'll need a more direct connection.  Thanks again for all the help...

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17993	From: trainsnwrcs	Date: 12/30/2011
Subject: Marn-O-Stat

Just got home with 6 or 7 feet of Marn-O-Stat. Been considering doing some 2-rail DC stuff, needed a pack, got a power supply, at least 4 throttles, reversers, 2 or 3 gauge sets, and a power load selector. Now I gotta set it all up. Fun!

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17994	From: Jacob Bechtel	Date: 12/30/2011
Subject: Re: Marn-O-Stat

Geeze -- I haven't seen a Marn-O-Stat in over 40 years! What a piece of work they were. Probably the sturdiest rheostates/throttles ever made! Back in 73 or '74 I had a 4 throttle set up on a 20'x9' layout. That Marn-O-Stat could have handled operations on the old Baltimore Society O Scale layout let alone my dinky little HO layout.fKeep us up to date on your progress! Jake Bechtel Gadsden, AL On 12/30/11, trainsnwrcs <idioticyahoo@...> wrote: > Just got home with 6 or 7 feet of Marn-O-Stat. Been considering doing some > 2-rail DC stuff, needed a pack, got a power supply, at least 4 throttles, > reversers, 2 or 3 gauge sets, and a power load selector. > Now I gotta set it all up. > Fun! > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17995	From: tieplatejunction	Date: 12/30/2011
Subject: Mantua Pacific, part II....

Well I've polished all the bearing and contact surfaces like nothing I've done since the MP corp. I even dis-assembled the tender trucks, polished the axles and cleaned out the bearings there. Nothing seems to work, it needs full throttle to go what normally would be less than quarter throttle speed...let up on it just a crack and it bogs to a stop. Looks like it may be the magnet after all and I just noticed that the motor is the later riveted kind...sigh... Maybe I'll just cry uncle and put a Helix Humper in it...

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17996	From: hbutlerlists	Date: 12/31/2011
Subject: Kadees for Hobbyline kits?

I've got a couple Hobbyline kits - a boxcar and a tank car - that I'd like to put in operation. Both have three small pins in the coupler boxes on the plastic underframes. Is a Kadee #4 a drop-in replacement for the NMRA couplers that came with the kits, or will I need to modify the coupler boxes (or replace them entirely) and use a different coupler? I didn't see Hobbyline in the coupler conversion list on the Kadee site. Thanks, Harry Butler

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17997	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 12/31/2011
Subject: Re: Kadees for Hobbyline kits?

----- Original Message ----- From: "hbutlerlists" <hbutlerlists@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2011 4:19 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Kadees for Hobbyline kits? > I've got a couple Hobbyline kits - a boxcar and a tank car - that I'd > like to put in operation. Both have three small pins in the coupler > boxes on the plastic underframes. Is a Kadee #4 a drop-in replacement > for the NMRA couplers that came with the kits, or will I need to modify > the coupler boxes (or replace them entirely) and use a different > coupler? I didn't see Hobbyline in the coupler conversion list on the > Kadee site. > > Thanks, > Harry Butler I cut out the pins, then use a Kadee five with the base of the pocket (the flat part with boss) as a cover upside down. Drill down the center and hold it on with a small tapping screw. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17998	From: tieplatejunction	Date: 12/31/2011
Subject: Mantua Pacific...Epilogue

It has to be the motor now as I installed wheel wipers wired directly to the motor and it still wants to crawl...there is no improvement at all. I made and mounted wipers like so... http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff514/3shaygetz/IMG_8938.jpg http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff514/3shaygetz/IMG_8939.jpg Knowing modelers will see a mistake I have since corrected but, you can see that, unless I use track sliders, there is no way to improve on the pickup...my meter flatlines now where it used to hesitate. I guess now is a good time for a Helix Humper or an email to NWSL... Thanks again for all the help...

Group: vintageHO	Message: 17999	From: Jim Heckard	Date: 12/31/2011
Subject: Need ID help

Tonight while checking through eBay I bought a diesel engine that caught my eye. Go to #160708534958 HO RARE Baldwin Diesel D8-4-4-660. In the sellers description he mentions RARE Athearn engine produced 1946-1949. While I bought the engine I'm not sure of sellers meaning. I know Athearn made a Baldwin S-12 but I have found nothing in any Athearn material about the engine I won. Was it ever produced or did the original owner create it from the Athearn S-12 ? He states produced in 1946-1949. Does he mean the Athearn HO engine I bought was produced then or does he mean the real engine was produced those years? I'm not quite sure what I have but it is odd . Anyone have an idea exactly what I got. Was there an Athearn production of this model or is it someone's project?. Was this Athearn engine produced 46-49 or does the owner / seller mean the real engine produced then? I see along with the missing side frame from the back the front left side frame doesn't look right.) Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18000	From: Stephen Neubaum	Date: 12/31/2011
Subject: Re: Need ID help

Jim, I would bet my bottom dollar that this is a re-detailed Athearn S-12. The real ones were produced around the timeframe mentioned. Athearn's was plastic and made much later. Good looking locomotive, though! -Steve Neubaum --- On Sat, 12/31/11, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: From: Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> Subject: [vintageHO] Need ID help To: vintageHO@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, December 31, 2011, 9:22 PM   Tonight while checking through eBay I bought a diesel engine that caught my eye. Go to #160708534958 HO RARE Baldwin Diesel D8-4-4-660. In the sellers description he mentions RARE Athearn engine produced 1946-1949. While I bought the engine I'm not sure of sellers meaning. I know Athearn made a Baldwin S-12 but I have found nothing in any Athearn material about the engine I won. Was it ever produced or did the original owner create it from the Athearn S-12 ? He states produced in 1946-1949. Does he mean the Athearn HO engine I bought was produced then or does he mean the real engine was produced those years? I'm not quite sure what I have but it is odd . Anyone have an idea exactly what I got. Was there an Athearn production of this model or is it someone's project?. Was this Athearn engine produced 46-49 or does the owner / seller mean the real engine produced then? I see along with the missing side frame from the back the front left side frame doesn't look right.) Jim H

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18001	From: Mike Bauers	Date: 12/31/2011
Subject: Re: Need ID help

I noticed that model before. It's a nice one !! I wonder if it got a Stewart body? On second look, It's a nicely back-dated Athearn S-10 Baldwin with the cast on grabs upgraded and the original Athearn engine hatch intact. I was very tempted by it. Mike Bauers On Dec 31, 2011, at 9:26 PM, Stephen Neubaum wrote: > > > Jim, > > I would bet my bottom dollar that this is a re-detailed Athearn S-12. > > The real ones were produced around the timeframe mentioned. > > Athearn's was plastic and made much later. > > Good looking locomotive, though! > > -Steve Neubaum > > --- On Sat, 12/31/11, Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: > > > Tonight while checking through eBay I bought a diesel engine that > caught my eye. Go to #160708534958 HO RARE Baldwin Diesel D8-4-4-660. > > In the sellers description he mentions RARE Athearn engine produced > 1946-1949. While I bought the engine I'm not sure of sellers meaning. > > I know Athearn made a Baldwin S-12 but I have found nothing in any > Athearn material about the engine I won. Was it ever produced or did the > original owner create it from the Athearn S-12 ? > > He states produced in 1946-1949. Does he mean the Athearn HO engine > I bought was produced then or does he mean the real engine was produced > those years? > > I'm not quite sure what I have but it is odd . Anyone have an idea > exactly what I got. Was there an Athearn production of this model or is > it someone's project?. Was this Athearn engine produced 46-49 or does > the owner / seller mean the real engine produced then? I see along with > the missing side frame from the back the front left side frame doesn't > look right.) >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18002	From: Don Dellmann	Date: 12/31/2011
Subject: Re: Need ID help

----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Heckard" <jimheck@...> To: <vintageHO@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2011 9:22 PM Subject: [vintageHO] Need ID help > > Tonight while checking through eBay I bought a diesel engine that > caught my eye. Go to #160708534958 HO RARE Baldwin Diesel D8-4-4-660. > > In the sellers description he mentions RARE Athearn engine produced > 1946-1949. While I bought the engine I'm not sure of sellers meaning. > > I know Athearn made a Baldwin S-12 but I have found nothing in any > Athearn material about the engine I won. Was it ever produced or did the > original owner create it from the Athearn S-12 ? > > He states produced in 1946-1949. Does he mean the Athearn HO engine > I bought was produced then or does he mean the real engine was produced > those years? > > I'm not quite sure what I have but it is odd . Anyone have an idea > exactly what I got. Was there an Athearn production of this model or is > it someone's project?. Was this Athearn engine produced 46-49 or does > the owner / seller mean the real engine produced then? I see along with > the missing side frame from the back the front left side frame doesn't > look right.) > > > Jim H Looks to me like an Athearn S-12 that somebody kitbashed. 1946-1949 are the prototype production years for the DS-4-4-660. The Chassis is definitely the later Athearn with the inside bearing trucks with plastic sideframes. The stacks vary on Baldwin diesels, as do the carbodies, so this was probably kitbashed to represent a specific locomotive. Don Don Dellmann don.dellmann@... http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction Owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18003	From: John H	Date: 12/31/2011
Subject: Re: Need ID help

Most assuredly an Athearn with added details. John Hagen --- In vintageHO@yahoogroups.com, "Don Dellmann" <don.dellmann@...> wrote: > > Looks to me like an Athearn S-12 that somebody kitbashed. 1946-1949 are the > prototype production years for the DS-4-4-660. > The Chassis is definitely the later Athearn with the inside bearing trucks > with plastic sideframes. > > The stacks vary on Baldwin diesels, as do the carbodies, so this was > probably kitbashed to represent a specific locomotive. > > Don > > Don Dellmann > don.dellmann@... > http://www.flickr.com/photos/don_dellmann/ > http://www.youtube.com/user/CreamCityTraction > Owner > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintageHO > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scenery >

Group: vintageHO	Message: 18004	From: raul@wi.rr.com	Date: 12/31/2011
Subject: Re: Need ID help

-- Hello Jim Is the body of the mystery diesel plastic? I have a Garrett kit made in brass or bronze that looks simmilar. I belive the kit was produced in the era mentioned. Roger Aultman -- Jim Heckard <jimheck@...> wrote: ============= Tonight while checking through eBay I bought a diesel engine that caught my eye. Go to #160708534958 HO RARE Baldwin Diesel D8-4-4-660. In the sellers description he mentions RARE Athearn engine produced 1946-1949. While I bought the engine I'm not sure of sellers meaning. I know Athearn made a Baldwin S-12 but I have found nothing in any Athearn material about the engine I won. Was it ever produced or did the original owner create it from the Athearn S-12 ? He states produced in 1946-1949. Does he mean the Athearn HO engine I bought was produced then or does he mean the real engine was produced those years? I'm not quite sure what I have but it is odd . Anyone have an idea exactly what I got. Was there an Athearn production of this model or is it someone's project?. Was this Athearn engine produced 46-49 or does the owner / seller mean the real engine produced then? I see along with the missing side frame from the back the front left side frame doesn't look right.) Jim H